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Hello explorers, and welcome to episode 68 of Unbroken. I’m Alexandra Amor.

I’m here today with a little announcement. As you possibly saw in the title of this episode, I’ve called it pausing and stepping into quiet. I’m feeling a really strong urge lately to do just that, to pause things, step into the silence, spend a lot of time in quiet.

We’re coming into summertime, here on the west coast of Vancouver Island, as I record this, and the days are getting longer and sunnier. And it’s not so much that I want to spend more time in the sun because I’m not really that type of person. But I do just want to spend time in quiet right now. And slow down a little bit and listen for wisdom, really.

This episode is a little announcement letting you know that that’s what’s happening. I will keep you posted on any future directions or things that go on. Hopefully I’ll be back in a few weeks or a couple of months or whatever it is however long it lasts. I really feel drawn to just listening to wisdom, listening to my intuition, that kind of thing and following those nudges. So that’s what’s pulling me at this moment.

For the next few weeks, I hope you are doing great, doing really well taking good care of yourself.

Please remember that we are all always unbroken.

Take care, bye.

Featured image photo by Jack Church on Unsplash

The post Pausing and Stepping Into Quiet appeared first on Alexandra Amor Books & Courses.

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As we discuss so often on Unbroken, there is an intelligence and wisdom that, if we allow it to, can guide our lives to interesting and fulfilling places. As with most of us, it took Stephanie Benedetto some time to really listen to this wisdom and to trust that it would support her. When she did, she unlocked a life and a business that flow with ease, even in the challenging moments.

Stephanie Benedetto is a transformational business coach, storyteller and (Un)Marketer at The Awakened Business, where she helps transformative coaches, healers and entrepreneurs unleash their heart’s message to create soulmate clients with playful (Un)Marketing — no hustle, or hype of endless social media required.

You can find Stephanie Benedetto at TheAwakenedBusiness.com.

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Show Notes

• Business as a vehicle of creation
• Giving ourselves permission to create the lives we want
• Noticing what is alive within us that wants to guide us
• Following the nudge to make a big life change
• How we create our worlds based on Thought
• How the pressures we feel have nothing to do with what’s going on in our lives and everything to do with what’s going on in our heads
• How discomfort is created when our thoughts look real
• Paying attention to what we’re listening to
• How you being you is enough

Resources Mentioned in this Episode

• The Surrender Experiment by Michael Singer

Transcript of Interview with Stephanie BenedettoAlexandra: Stephanie Benedetto, welcome to Unbroken.

Stephanie: Thank you for having me, Alexandra, this is a great pleasure.

Alexandra: I’m so pleased to have you here.

Tell us a little bit about your background and how you got interested in the Three Principles.Stephanie: I have been a pretty much a lifelong entrepreneur. Definitely in my adult life. But as I reflected on my childhood, I used to play games like Office and sell at Mr. Dobbs candy shop. And I used to sell cards and things. I was actually interested in entrepreneurship, even when I was quite young. So I’ve had multiple businesses.

The most notable and successful were we’re a business as a wedding DJ, with my now ex husband for 15 years. And then we transitioned into a digital marketing business, basically, internet marketing. So I used to create courses and a membership online, for other wedding professionals to teach them about business. I’ve been in love with business for a long time.

But my first love is really people. And I love business as a vehicle of creation. It’s a way that people can create the change they’d love to see in the world, they can be of service. That’s what I see business as. And so over the years, I wanted to have deeper impact with people. And that drew me more and more into coaching.

In my prior career, it looked more like consulting, marketing strategy. And I realized that there was something missing from that, for me, that we talked about these great ideas and people that didn’t do them, because they were scared, or they felt insecure. And I saw this also in myself, because in parallel, I was on my own personal development and spiritual journey. I wanted to go deeper for me.

So I hired my first business coach. And then I wanted to do what they were doing. And it took me on this whole journey until I realized, Oh, my goodness.

The business I currently have, which is called The Awakened Business is really meant to support entrepreneurs, who want to share the truth they’ve seen, and the gifts that they have with the world.

And do it in a way that really feels good. Because there’s a lot that I was taught when I was studying internet marketing inside of business that maybe we could say is unethical or feels a little weird. And certainly people who are helpers and want to be of service often have a lot of what I could call head trash about selling and marketing. None of that has to be painful or icky, like it can actually be complete joy and totally enjoyable. And so that’s what I help people do now.

As I’ve gone deeper into my journey with the Three Principles have gone from Oh, this is a cool thing to add to all the other spiritual stuff. This was like years ago, I saw no contradiction with neuro linguistic programming and Practical Magic and Access Consciousness and EFT and all the other things that I was doing. I was like, Oh, the Three Principles fits great into this mix. I really care about understanding those principles. I don’t care about explaining it to others. I’d say this to myself until I realized I started talking about three principles with other people.

Then I was like, I want to be a transformative coach. I’m interested in that until I find myself in Michael Neal’s super coach Academy and becoming a certified transformative coach. So I actually think there was a wisdom in it that I was trying not to take it seriously not to try to do it right. I just let the process unfold.

As time has gone on that is more and more, it’s really the foundation of everything that I do, not just in my business, not just with the clients I work with, but to help people to really enjoy their lives and whatever it is they’re creating, through the recognition of what they really are, who they really are, and, and how we work. How we create our experience. And when we’re really at our best, and that we can trust this intelligence that enlivens us. And when that happens, man, building a business is a piece of cake.

Alexandra: Oh, that’s great, good news for all the entrepreneurs out there.

How does it look different, trusting our own wisdom, trusting the intelligence that’s flowing through us versus trying to do it all ourselves.Stephanie: Oh, my God, it is so different. I’ve been on this journey myself, for years. And of course, it’s quite natural that I also guide other people on that journey. People don’t see me this way. So often, when I say that, I used to be a total rule follower. They’re like, really? Because such a big part of my message is that you get to do it your way, you get to play the game of business the way you want to play it.

I was really devoted to doing things right. And being a good student and a good girl for much of my life.

I brought that with me into what I learned about business. And so it was doing things the way they were taught to me following the rules, and a lot of that I learned a lot from it. And some of it worked. And some of it didn’t. But at some point, the things that I was supposed to do just didn’t feel quite right. But this was, of course, mirroring what was happening inside of me.

It wasn’t until I was, I think, maybe 38 years old that I asked myself, What do I want to create in my life? It just hadn’t really occurred to me. Asking that question sent me inward. And I began to discover, like, how do I even know what I want? That was a journey for me in itself. And then I discovered the difference between creating from my intellect, creating from the rules that somebody else gave me or the way I’ve always done it, and how limited it felt, versus those moments when I got quiet. And something would just tell me, and I would just know, to do something. So I don’t think I jumped in all at once.

I read a book called The Surrender Experiment by Michael Singer, I think about maybe eight or nine years ago now. With it came alive my own surrender experiment, an exploration of what does that mean to surrender? What does that mean to let life show me? What I found and how this looks so different is that I don’t need to figure it out, which is a great relief, because I don’t think I was really that good at it. I mean, I coped well, but I can’t know what’s going to happen tomorrow. And I don’t know what’s going to work and what won’t.

I’m not very good at thinking about all things that need to happen. It’s overwhelming, and it’s very stressful. And I’ve realized that I don’t have to. Everyone has an area of their life where they know this, by the way, it might be the one place where they feel like, oh, I can just relax and I’m in flow. So for some people, it’s at work, for some people it’s with their kids. For some people, it’s when they’re out in nature, maybe they do a sport.

That’s available anywhere, including inside of our business. I am still discovering this, by the way, I’m still going deeper on this, that I can go to the source of wisdom inside of me for anything and everything. And in fact, that’s what I’m looking for is what I’m really looking for is there, including the answers about how to grow my business, how to market it, how to move past things that look like they’re stopping me. And of course, the feelings, the well-being and the peace and the happiness that I’m looking for. So that’s how it looks different. I hope I have answered that question.

Alexandra: You have Thank you. I love your analogy about how it does show up for everyone in some area of their life. And sometimes we take that a little bit for granted, I think we think oh well that it’s that one specific thing that I’m good at or relaxed about. And then we don’t realize that we can feel that way, in so many other areas, if not everywhere in our lives.

Before we hit record, we were talking about our intentions for the call. And one of the things I said was that I was interested in your personal story, and you touched on it a little bit already about being a good girl. And following the rules.

On your website, there’s some detail about how you followed your wisdom out of that way of being. Can you tell us a little bit about what that looked like for you?Stephanie: When I started asking myself, what do I want, I realized that I had been making my choices, based on a role that I thought I needed to fill, I had a lot of people pleasing behaviors going on, which made sense, because it was how I knew myself. I discovered that some of the things I was doing were part of the reason why maybe I didn’t like them after a while or became resentful or was because it really wasn’t something that I wanted. I didn’t even know I was allowed to ask that.

And as I did, as that was alive in me, I was listening. This is how I see it. Now, I don’t think I knew quite what I was doing then. But I was listening for guidance. I was always on a spiritual journey of some type. And as I got quieter in the moments when I did get quiet, which were few and far between, but I was finding them more. I was hearing things, I was getting a sense of things.

I was actually at a yoga retreat. Yoga was one of the many things that I pursued on this growth path. I had been married for I think, at that time, at least 16 years.

This knowing dropped in that it’s time for you to leave your marriage. And I was like, why? This is not the first time I would get a message from the universe like that and be like, right, but I felt lots of things. It wasn’t just no, but see, I just knew there was a knowing in that. I took my time, which I think was also wisdom, because I loved my husband.

This is another thing was like How can I leave there’s nothing wrong here. If there was abuse, if I was unhappy, if we didn’t like each other even, that will be a good reason. But I thought I needed a reason to make a choice. I didn’t know that because I want to, it’s a good enough reason. I waited about a year of just dropping expectations and letting go of the mess that I had and working with coaches and the mess that I had in my head. I had so much thinking about it. And until finally I felt clear, I knew that I knew it wasn’t.

I said to myself, if I’m going to leave this marriage, it’s not going to be because I’m trying to escape. That’s something I tried to do before I tried to implode our marriage earlier. Or because I’m avoiding something, but I’m going to do it from a place of peace. If I’m doing it. That’s how I’m doing it. And that is how it happened. I’m still friends with my ex husband and and I think we both…we could have done better of course, looking back I see so much more now than I did then. But we did really well navigating that.

My husband and I owned a business together. We owned two houses together, we had animals that we owned together. I left all of that. I had to close it off. It wasn’t an impulsive thing. We still worked in our business for I think almost two years before we sold it together. And I started traveling and pet sitting because I love pets, I love animals. And I didn’t know what I wanted to do and I didn’t know where I wanted to live and I didn’t just want to do what I’d always done and stay in New York, which is where I was.

That was my real experience. Surrender is I don’t know where I’m going to end up. And it’s continued. And it’s deepened. And it was almost two years ago that a similar big knowing dropped in where it was like, okay, I’m going to Portugal, go to Portugal. And there was a new relationship for me there. I had a very strong sense about what was going to happen. And I had to drop all my expectations about what that meant.

What I’ve come to learn about this wisdom is that it is in real time, it is for right now. And when it says go to Portugal, it means go to that direction now, like whatever that means, start the process. It doesn’t mean what I necessarily think it’s going to mean. So I had all kinds of thinking about Alexandria, again, like I was like, No, you’re doing this, I like my life. I’m happy here. But I also know to follow that, because that’s how I want to live.

There’s a delight and a depth to living from that place that I am surprised at what I find myself choosing and what comes my way. And it doesn’t lead me wrong. It doesn’t mean that everything works out the way I think it will, though. So that’s why it was like surrendering, surrendering my expectations about what this would mean. And if it would mean what I thought I just knew to follow those directions, just do that. And I did. And it actually went the way that I had sensed.

Along the way, I just showed up in the moment as best I could. It’s opened up a whole new world for me yet again, I didn’t realize the fear that had been driving me. It helped me see that. The world is bigger and possibilities that I never thought were available for myself. I can see them now. And I couldn’t before; they were invisible to me. And it’s not because I moved to Portugal, but that was a part of the journey.

Alexandra: Wow, there’s so much in there, I got goosebumps when you talked about being at a yoga retreat and feeling that knowing that it was time to leave your marriage. That’s extraordinary. And you touched on the good girl aspect of your personality earlier.

I imagine that there was some resistance from that part of your personality when you started going in this direction more of following wisdom rather than pleasing other people.

Could you talk about that resistance a little bit?Stephanie: What was interesting, Alexandra, was it wasn’t just a good girl living in my personality, there was also a rebel. So it was kind of like both were going on at the same time. And you can imagine that’s quite a war to have, when I don’t know that what’s really happening is conflicting thoughts. I thought that was part of me. My identity, right.

That started when I was a kid. I remember the first time I seriously rocked the boat in my family. I think I was about 15 years old. And I had my first existential crisis like, No, I am the good girl. Everybody loves me. I don’t do things that upset people and like, cause conflict and division and my family. That’s not me. Well, yeah, apparently it was. Because that too, was an experience that I have.

What I saw, and I’ve actually seen this recently, that the people pleasing behavior and the nice girl persona, the need to be that person came from this false belief I had built my world on, that for my own survival, I needed to never be a burden to anyone. And I made up what that was, right? Like, what does that even mean? Well, it’s definitely made it up. I made it up. So I could never be a burden to others, which meant I’ve really had to know what other people wanted and try to anticipate it and a whole world was created on that faulty premise that if I was a burden to others, I would be abandoned, and I would die. So that felt really scary and really important.

I built my personality on that. I built these habits and behaviors, and some of them served me at least some of the time, but many of them didn’t. As I grew and I would see these behaviors come up, like asking people for help used to seem impossible, then it felt uncomfortable, and then I’m like, this is trivial and silly. Why am I feeling fear? I saw that it made perfect sense based on the world I was living in and seeing the world I had created out of fear.

Seeing that we create it, seeing the fact that we create a world with thought. And then we call it my beliefs and my values and my identity. And this is the way the world works, meant that I didn’t have to create it that way anymore. And so now, sure, maybe those habits of thought, those habits of behavior may come up. But I see them in a way I couldn’t see them before. They were invisible to me, they looked real before.

I don’t feel the resistance of it anymore. I don’t care, honestly, it’s like, I just went to the market today. And I feel nervous. Sometimes I freaked myself out. I’m learning Portuguese, and I don’t understand the numbers they’re saying when I’m paying for things sometimes. And so the nerves are so bad, I feel nervous. It’s really okay, I get over it really fast. And it doesn’t mean anything.

It used to look like it meant something. It used to look like it was life and death to me. And I didn’t see that. And now it doesn’t. Now I know, it’s just another experience like any other. So it’s not that all those things disappear instantly. But they don’t have the same hold over me. And actually, a lot of them have kind of disappeared. I notice things slowly just dropping away.

Alexandra: I want to ask specifically, we touched on it a little bit, but how the messages from your life pointed you toward another way to show up. So you talked about at the yoga retreat and you just had a knowing.

Are there other ways that you experience feeling wisdom or feeling being guided?Stephanie: Those are my first big examples of it. But now, it’s every day. Now, I see it everywhere. So for example, I wake up and I can just like kind of tune in like, what will be good for my body to eat today. I take supplements, but I don’t take them every day. I kind of just check in. Okay, not today. Just interesting. I don’t always do this, by the way. And it’s not a practice. It’s just something that started happening.

As I’ve been on my business journey, I’ll weave it into my business a little bit. So in business, I was taught a lot of different things. First, I was taught that you’re supposed to schedule all the important activities in your business to make sure that you do them. And so then I would like time block my calendar and I felt all this pressure. So I was like, I don’t want that anymore. So I stopped because somebody else told me that you should only have appointments on your calendar, and you should have space so you can see the spaciousness of your account. Neither one of those things are true, by the way. They’re just someone’s opinion.

So I did that for a while. And I realized I was kind of drifting. So I started going how do I want to experience this? Like what experiment can I do? So I started experimenting with adding some structure back in. The way I’ve kind of settled my days are often quite full.

But the pressure I feel has nothing to do with how much is on my calendar and everything to do with how much is in my head. I know that now, I didn’t know that when I wanted my calendar spacious and free. But what I do is I do sometimes is time block activities to set aside time to work on writing this thing or editing these videos. But I give myself full permission to show up fresh with it. So that if it doesn’t feel right, or something else is occurring to me like wisdom like go now you really need a nap right now. That’s what I’ll do.

Because how could the me from a week ago know what would be perfect for me right now. So that’s kind of an example of how wisdom shows up in small ways. And even recently, I’m seeing oh wow, I can go there for everything and anything. I didn’t realize how much I was still going to my intellect, which is great. You know, it’s served me so well, if I want something really fresh, if I want to grow my business, if I want to create money, why am I going to my intellect, which is only aware of these certain ways to do it? Why am I not going to the source? And asking there what occurs to me?

This is a fresh journey for me. But there’s always something that occurs from there. And sometimes it’s surprising. Sometimes it’s common sense. Just the fact that I can look there is amazing. Just the fact that something’s there for me. It almost doesn’t matter what it is.

Alexandra: I love that. And I love that you use the word fresh, because that’s a word that I’ve been using more and more lately. We have this wisdom that’s within us and comes to life moment to moment is so fresh, and creative. And wise, of course. But yeah, that word fresh is just so important to me these days.

You may have already addressed this in some of what you’ve said, but tell us a little bit about your ideas about that.

Let’s talk about what the awakened business looks like. Stephanie: That’s funny, I really don’t think of it in those terms of like, there is an awakened business and one that is unawakened. I really wanted to call my business the awakened entrepreneur, honestly, but I couldn’t get the domain at the time. But what that means to me is coming fully alive, inside of your business, inside of your life, really, because they’re not separate.

Your business is a part of your life and when a person comes alive, and by that I mean begins to feel life, moving through them. Whatever way they might experience that begins to really be in their experience, give themselves permission to create what they want and enjoy. What’s happening now. Because aliveness is enjoyable.

The feeling of aliveness is, I mean, even when something crappy is happening. The aliveness that flows beneath and in all of it is amazing. And when that starts to happen, not as a state to achieve at every moment, but when it begins to happen, even in tiny moments, throughout your day, and you create a business, that way, you have a business that feels alive, you’re up to cool things. It’s easier to communicate what it is that you’re up to so that the people you’re here to help and serve understand that. You’re no longer creating it, because somebody said you should.

This way, you’re creating it, because it feels right for you. And you get to do it wrong. I’m putting that in air quotes, I don’t think you can do it wrong.

You get to make mistakes, and change your mind and make shit up. I do that all the time. I’m constantly making things up. Things don’t work. And I know I’m okay. I know that something new will occur, that something fresh will occur. So that’s what it looks like to have a business that’s alive for me.

Alexandra: Do you find that either yourself or your clients when they’re starting to learn about doing things this way? Is there a discomfort that comes up for them?Stephanie: Oh, yes.

Alexandra: Is it uncomfortable?

Stephanie: Yes. It often is. Because the first time like, I’m allowed to do that. Yeah, you’re making up your business. Because if you go into the typical business training world, people and I’m going to assume that most of them are well intentioned. I know they all are on some level. Ultimately, they all are. They want to help people. But what they do is they’re training people. They’re giving people their wisdom. And that’s not going to be the right fit for me or you, in parts of it might, it might inspire something for me. But that’s not the source. And it’s not going to be the perfect fit.

We’re taught that there’s a certain way to do things, you have to have a website, and on your website, you need to have this thing called the lead magnet, and you have to an email list and you need to do social media and the answer to those things. Is that true? No, no, no. And no. Or maybe yes, yes, yes. And yes. Only you would know.

It’s really weird for people at first, when I’m asking them like, well, what’s the current view? What do you know? So the people who do find me are kind of onto that, already a little bit like, they might describe it as I want to have a soul led business, or I want to follow more of my intuition or do things my way, because they’ve been around the block, and they haven’t been enjoying the way it feels.

But they still run up against that old thinking of there’s a right way to do it and a wrong way, and I better figure it out, because bad stuff’s gonna happen if I don’t. So yeah, that is uncomfortable. And I think, actually, something I’m seeing that is a bigger discomfort for people is letting go of the pressure, and the trying, and the doing and making ourselves figure it out. It’s all on me that many of us have used to drive our actions and our behavior, especially in our business, like actually going, I don’t have to figure it out. You mean I could listen to my wisdom, and that wisdom tells me seriously, that even seems like more of an uncomfortable thing for people.

Alexandra: I’m so glad you said that. Because that’s something that I struggle with as well. I go along for a while and then I noticed myself drifting off, and feeling like it’s all on me, and feeling a lot of pressure. And then I remember, and I bring myself back. But it’s a habit.

It is a little bit uncomfortable to break it, to know that there’s something else there that’s going to catch us and support us.Stephanie: At first it’s uncomfortable, but it’s only uncomfortable because I have a thought that looks real, that says something like, If I don’t do it, nothing will happen. I have to be the one to do it. I just feel the discomfort of that thought if without that thought it’s amazing to know I don’t have to do it. It’s a miracle that I don’t have to do it. My job is simply to be me. And to do what occurs to me. That’s it. Can it be that simple? Yeah. And it’s a great relief.

Alexandra: That’s so true. The discomfort, the way that it feels is the clue.

The discomfort that we feel about taking it all on ourselves is the thing that lets us know that that thought is a lie. I love that built in feedback system.Stephanie: It is becoming more and more black and white to me. As I am like, oh my really anytime I don’t feel good, peaceful, calm, I’m caught up in my thinking. That’s all it means. I don’t even need to know the content of that thinking. That’s what’s happening.

I know in that from that place, I am not seeing the world clearly. If I feel crappy, I am not seeing clearly, period, every time. It’s incredible to see that because it keeps pointing me back to look within. This is where I find what I’m looking for. And I start to settle down. If I’m not settled down, I know it’s just going to be a little while until it passes. It always does.

Alexandra: You mentioned that you were at the listening seminar recently. Tell us about that experience. Do you have a highlight from it?Stephanie: There were so many little moments. It was amazing to be there. The first day we really just talked about and listened to people talking about listening. Some of my favorite mentors from inside the Three Principles, Michael Neill was there. Mavis Karn was there. I got to meet people in person who I’d never met in person before. And so we are all in a really lovely state.

This is a highlight I’ll share with you because it was unusual for me. Stephanie’s personality and my past, even though I like hugging people, I’ve always been a little weird with people in my personal space. Unless I know you, don’t come too close.

I was just in a really beautiful feeling listening to this presentation, I think it was on the first day. And I just look at this woman. And she just was so cute. She had a little bow, she had like a little flower in her hair, and this cute little dress on. And I looked at her and I see her look at me. And I’m like, it felt like we knew each other. I look away and I look back, and she’s smiling at me. And I’m smiling at her. I just went up to her and hugged her without saying a word. Without a thought. And as I hugged her, I was like, you have such a beautiful smile. And she was from the Czech Republic, I could tell by her accent as she responded.

She said, I was just thinking you’re such a beautiful woman. And that was it. We hugged, we spoke those words, we might have smiled and waved at each other at another point during that conference. But that was all. And it was such a perfect moment. I think this is what’s possible when we’re listening. When we’re just being.

Listening isn’t about hearing. It’s an openness, it’s a receptivity, it’s what happens when I’m really present. Again, anytime I’m not feeling present, I’m not listening. And that’s what’s available, little miracles like that happen. nd I don’t even think about them, they just happen. Things move me. I don’t know why I hugged that woman. It just was the thing to do.

Alexandra: It occurs to me that when it comes to listening, it feels like it’s pointing toward the opposite of where we normally live, which is a lot of chatter in our heads about ourselves, about other people, about things that are going on, about life, about whatever. And as you said, listening is more like an openness, or receptivity.

I love that distinction. Because it’s not just about our ears.Stephanie: My dear friend says, we’re always listening. Our listening is always perfect. What are we listening to? Most of the time, we’re listening to the chatter in our heads. And it’s not particularly productive. Sometimes it’s great fun, but other times, not so much. And we know by how it feels right.

When I’m listening within, it’s different. And things drop in, instead of me being caught up in them. It’s like they rise up or they drop in. That’s kind of a funny way to express it. But that’s how it feels. And it’s very different than when I’m listening to the contents of my intellect and my endlessly churning mind.

Alexandra: As we’re coming to the end of our time today, is there anything we haven’t touched on that you’d like to share with our listeners?Stephanie: What I’d like to share is that you being you is not only enough, it’s amazing. I didn’t know that for a very long time. And it feels so good. That’s how you know you’re being you. It feels easy. It feels effortless. And I’m most myself when I’m not thinking about myself at all. And it’s a gift. It’s a gift for us, but it’s a gift for the world. And I would love for people to know that or know it a little more deeply.

Alexandra: Nice. Oh, thank you.

Where can we find out more about you and your work?Stephanie: The best place would be TheAwakenedBusiness.com. That’s my website. I’m not active on social media. I’ve been doing some YouTube and a bit of LinkedIn, but I’m allergic to the rest for right now.

I do have an email list. If people would like to follow my adventures in life and business. I share a lot of my personal experiences and experiments, they can hop on my email list and learn more.

Alexandra: I will put links in the show notes to your website. Thank you so much for being here with me today. I really appreciate it. It’s been really nice to meet you.

Stephanie: You too, Alexandra. Thanks for having me.

Alexandra: All right. Take care. Bye bye.

Featured image photo by Natalia Slastnikova on Unsplash

The post We Don’t Need To Figure It Out with Stephanie Benedetto appeared first on Alexandra Amor Books & Courses.

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We all have a built-in GPS, a guidance system that never lies and that always has our best interests at heart. We can call that guidance whatever we want – wisdom, intuition, insight, knowing; the name isn’t as important as learning to listen to it. And, as Bonnie Jarvis points out, figuring out how your guiding wisdom speaks to you makes life so much easier.

Bonnie Jarvis has a BA in Graphic Design, MS in Computer Science, MA in Spiritual Psychology and has completed several coaching programs. Using the skills she learned over the years, she’s helped many coaches with the technical details of building successful and thriving online businesses.

For 9 years, Bonnie worked for 3PGC, a non-profit organization with a mission to share the simplicity of The Three Principles as uncovered by Sydney Banks. She developed all areas needed for their online business to thrive and significantly expand the understanding globally.

You can find Bonnie Jarvis at BonnieJarvis.com.

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Show Notes

• On being a ‘secret seeker’
• Following the breadcrumbs of insight, interest, and synchronicities
• How the Three Principles explain what is before other philosophies and traditions
• Having the courage to leap into the unknown based on inner knowing
• The importance of coming back to the present moment
• Getting really familiar with how wisdom speaks to you

Resources Mentioned in this Episode

• 3PGC
• Raymond Moody’s book Life After Life
• Azul Leguizamon’s Unbroken podcast episode
• Bonnie and Azul’s monthly free webinar, What Has Wisdom Shown You Lately?
• Bonnie and Azul’s The Heart of Service program

Transcript of Interview with Bonnie JarvisAlexandra: Bonnie Jarvis, welcome to Unbroken.

Bonnie: Thank you so much. Thanks for inviting me, Alexandra, I really appreciate being here.

Alexandra: Oh, my pleasure. I’m so thrilled to talk to you one on one. We’ve been in events together. I think I was trying to recall when that was. I think it was a class with Cathy Casey. That was last year, I think. But anyway, so it’s lovely to talk to you one on one.

Bonnie: I keep seeing your name around the community. So I’m glad that we’re getting this opportunity.

Alexandra: Me too.

Tell us about your background and how you discovered the Three Principles.Bonnie: Well, like so many people who have come across the Three Principles, I was looking around for a very long time. I know people come to this understanding, or the understanding finds them maybe as a better way of saying it, when people are looking for very different things. For me, my seeking, if you will, started when I was really young.

My dad was in a really horrendous accident when I was four. And this was 1960, giving away my age. I won’t into the details, but he was electrocuted to the point where two silver dollars melted in his pocket and then he fell three stories. And he obviously was given his last rites, no one thought he was going to survive back then. But he did.

And I don’t know, maybe when I was around six or seven, he shared his experience of what happened to him. Now we know of what people call near death experiences. But that term wasn’t even around back then. And I don’t really know what it was he said that impacted me so deeply. But I think the quality of what he was sharing just touched me so deeply, that I knew this physical reality was not all there was, but I didn’t know what else was out there.

I was really young then, I was going to Catholic school, and I learned really quickly to not talk about it in Catholic school, because it was not approved of, and it wasn’t a well known thing.

I think that experience made me a secret seeker. I looked at so many different things, I dipped my toes into so many different things once I got out of high school, different religions. I sought out channelers, I did different self help programs that were spiritually oriented. I did a spiritual psychology master’s degree. This was over a period of like, maybe 40 ish years.

In the spiritual psychology program, the organization about 10 years after I graduated from there, they were doing a coaching program. I should say, my other parallel life was that I got a master’s degree in computer science and worked in many corporations. And definitely was a secret seeker through that because it was okay to be in a religion, but everything else was very woowoo. So I really didn’t talk about anything. But I would pop in and out of corporate America jobs at that time in the 80s and 90s. And even early 2000s, it was very easy to leave one job and find another because not a whole lot of people knew a whole lot about technology then.

In 2013, I decided that was it. I was leaving corporate America for the last time. It was not where I wanted to be. And one of my very, very close friends became the admissions director of the organization that ran the spiritual psychology program. And she called and said, Well, if you don’t have any plans, which I didn’t, I just knew I didn’t want to continue on the path that I was in Corporate America why don’t you take this coaching program? I was like, okay, I have the time, I have the money, I’ll do it.

It turned out to be the best thing ever, because one of the facilitators introduced a little video of someone talking about insight. At the time, I had to go research everything. So again, it was 2013, there wasn’t a whole lot on the web at the time. But I did manage to track down what the Three Principles were, and it was on a Wikipedia page of all things that I was reading it and, and it just hit me. Like, oh, this is what is before all of those other things that I was looking at, all of those paths that I took, I couldn’t get to the beginning of them, because there was usually a lot of things to do.

And, and so I’d follow something for a year or two and then look for the next thing. I can’t say I understood anything that I was reading, but I just had a knowing. So would you like me to keep going?

Alexandra: Yes, please.

Bonnie: I was following breadcrumbs really. I kept looking and looking. In 2013, there were some videos, but there wasn’t a whole lot out there. I finally came across that there was a conference going on in St. Paul, Minnesota, like a month later. So I hopped on a plane, and I went to that. And then that led me to meeting the woman who would organize the 3PGC conference. And the woman that was organizing them lived near me. So we got to be friends.

Then at the conference, I believe it was there, I learned that Christine Heath, who was one of the original board members for 3PGC and still is on the board, was doing a workshop in Hawaii. And I was like, Oh, I can I can go there. I’m not working now. So I went. I think it was like September, October was the conference. And then November was this workshop. And then I learned about the Pranskys doing the first practitioner retreat in February 2014. Went to that then went to Salt Spring Island.

Then I volunteered to help with the next in person conference that 3PGC was doing and got to know Chris a little bit more.

Looking back, it was so much following that little voice that said, yeah, do this next, do this next. But I think when it was happening, I wouldn’t have been able to tell you, that’s what I was doing.

I think it was Chris that asked me, maybe this was 2015, they were trying to start a free webinar program. And it was sort of a start and stop. She asked if I’d be interested in volunteering to do that. So I did and and then it went from one a month to two a month and that program is still running. And then the the woman who originally did their newsletters and updated the first website was leaving and and that’s when I actually went to work for 3PGC very part time and learn more about the organization and then had a ton of ideas about what we could do online because that was my background

I started to talk with Chris a lot more and with the then president about what else we could do. And finally I think it was 2018 they they said yeah, go ahead and let’s build the new website. And they needed it done by the current for the in person conference in 2019. I’m kind of telling the story because looking back I feel like my finding the Three Principles and 3PGC when I did was incredible synchronicity. Because once the new website was done and we could we could create a membership site.

I think that’s when I started working for them full time for 3PGC full time and started suggesting online programs and that wasn’t really a well known thing at the time. The board was a bit hesitant because getting the feeling in person was something they just weren’t sure of, if that could be sort of transmitted or really felt across the internet, but we finally said, Yeah, let’s do it. And we were originally shooting for a 48 hour conference, but it turned into like 54 hours of continuously running sessions, which was a lot of work to put together but it turned out to be incredible. People loved it, we had something like three or 400 people participating, people who couldn’t travel to the in person. It truly was a global event, and it was run at time periods where anybody could watch it.

And here’s the synchronicity of it. We ran it the last two days of February and the first day of March of 2020. And then the pandemic. And so we were set, we were all set up the board could see this was a great platform to do things and so we were able to build a practitioner program through and we had maybe four or five incredible programs. Not full on conferences, but programs where people could really participate in. And we were able to to really keep sharing this understanding when everybody had stay at home, basically.

So it was again, looking back, like, while I was in it, I didn’t see the beauty of following the breadcrumbs and the timing of it. But looking back, it’s like, wow, that was perfect timing for somebody like me to come in, and do it, because I just happen to have the right skills to help them out. And yeah, so that’s how I got involved with the three principles and 3PGC.

Alexandra: Wow, that’s so great. I have a few follow-up questions then.

For our listeners, 3PGC stands for Three Principles Global Community. So it’s sort of like the governing body, for lack of a better word, for the Three Principles.

You said that you felt like the principles explained what was before all the other things that you had been seeking? Could you say more about that? That intrigues me so much. Bonnie: At the time, I didn’t know what I meant by that. I just knew this was underneath. I dippd my toes in Buddhism and Sikhism, and all sorts of all sorts of self help. And I knew there was something more to all of those things I was looking at. I just couldn’t get to it for whatever reason.

Now the words that I would put on it, and now what I understand of it is that the Three Principles truly are the formless principles that explain the human experience. So those are the words I would have put on it now. But at the time, I didn’t have those words.

Even in talking about my Dad’s experience, in looking back at that, what I think now, the quality that I felt, I think was when he talked about the light – a lot of Near Death Experiences talk about seeing the light and he was drawn to this light. And he felt that it was warm and loving and he did not want to come back. He wanted to go through. But in his words, he was told to come back. I think that feeling that he shared when he was talking about that was probably what what drew me into looking for what that was

Alexandra: Did that you said you were raised Catholic, so he was Catholic at the time this happened?Bonnie: I was four when his accident happened. So I don’t really remember whether he was a churchgoer before then. I don’t think he ever went. I don’t remember him ever going to church after that, and possibly because of what he felt in that experience, I don’t know. I never talked to him about that.

I remember when Raymond Moody came out with his book Life After Life he coined the term near death experience. We were like, oh my god, other people have this and we talked about it. And this is the thing you didn’t make this. Because I don’t know this for sure, but I’m going to guess, that if he shared this with any doctors or nurses at the time, they probably thought, Oh, you were in a coma, and whatever.

We talked about it a lot, I would say the last six months of his life, and what it really brought for him that I got was, and he lived, this happened to him in 1960. He passed away in ‘98. So he lived a long time after that. What it really gave him was that he did not fear death. I remember talking to him and he said something like, No, I know where I’m going next. I’ve already felt that. So that was I think beautiful.

I think that’s one of the things he gave me is that I have never had a fear of dying either. I’m not really crazy about having to go through what you might have to go through before that. There can be a lot of suffering in that, but with this understanding of the Three Principles that might even give me a different perspective of that statement. That off the tip of my tongue, but in reality, this understanding and and constantly looking and seeing things more deeply. Seeing new insights. You come back with a different perspective on the same thing.

Alexandra: Yes, absolutely. I’ve been thinking about this a little bit lately as well. I feel the same way that the idea of death doesn’t bother me at all. I’m interested in what that looks like. And the steps leading up to it, I hope they’re not too painful or terrible.

And then because our experience does come from the inside out, I realized that it is possible to experience peace, no matter what we’re going through. And yeah, so all of that is just so interesting. I could talk about that for hours for sure.

What a fascinating experience your dad went through, and just that idea that he must have thought he was alone in that for so long. And I imagine coming from a Catholic background too he was probably very anxious about ever bringing that up with anybody. Any adults, I guess I should say? Fascinating. Really, really interesting. Thank you for sharing that. I appreciate it. And it makes me wonder, too, about any conflict that he felt? Betrayed. But you know about that experience? Anyway, fascinating.

Bonnie: I can look back and say, I wish I would have been in this place where I am now to ask him more questions. But I’m glad I got the opportunity to talk to him about it at the end of his life.

I also just want to say this, a near death experience is not what happened with Sydney Banks. I remember sharing this with some one of Sydney Banks’ original students, and I kind of got corrected. It’s like, this is not what happened. I was like, No, I didn’t mean to suggest that. It’s like he my dad just happened to leave his body and see that there was something else but the experience that Sydney Banks’ had was completely different and deeper and amazing.

Alexandra: That’s a great clarification. Thank you. It’s important for people to see the difference.

So you worked for the three PGC for a while. And I want to ask you two questions about that. I think you’ve already addressed the first one actually, I was going to ask you what did the job teach you and you’ve already talked about looking back and seeing the way that life was leading you in a direction.

It sounds like you didn’t fight that too much there wasn’t too much fight in you. Is that true?Bonnie: That is true.Before listening to your wisdom, I would call it intuition. I’ve always had a strong sense of intuition. I didn’t always follow it. So following the breadcrumbs and just listening to what was coming next, which was not a huge jump for me. But there were certainly plenty of times when I could have said, I don’t want to follow these breadcrumbs anymore. But I didn’t. Something else was saying that keep following these keep doing this.

Alexandra: It led you in seems to be anyway in such a nice direction, to something that you needed.Bonnie: I think that’s true. Whenever we really listened to our inner guidance, if there was anything that I would want to share with people, it’s that learning what that feels like or sounds like, or however you you get your guidance from wisdom or your intuition, whatever you want to call it, really get really cozy and familiar with how that feels different than what’s coming from your intellect or your personal wants and desires. Because it really does seem to me it really looks to me, like, that’s the way to go to have a happier life.

Alexandra: Speaking of which, how did you know that it was time to leave that experience?Bonnie: That was a knowing too, I that about mid 2022, I started to get nudges. You’ve done what you’ve come here to do, and it’s time to move on. I did give notice. I think it was the beginning of December of 2022 for two months. I’m kind of a jack of all trades, master of none, when it comes to the online business. So I could do a whole wide variety of things. But in replacing me, it took a little longer because because they ended up having to bring on a number of people.

So I didn’t leave in the beginning of 2023, I waited until everything was completely set up. And then I left at the end of it, I think was September 2023. But again, that was an urge and I didn’t have anything planned next.

That’s the part that can be really scary. It’s the part of leaping into the unknown.I guess that’s what that looked like to me. But I had done that so many times in my life, left jobs without really knowing what was going to be next and everything worked out. So I felt okay doing that.

It’s been incredible what’s unfolded since then. I was pretty busy minded when I was working for 3PGC because I was doing a broad range of things behind the scenes; I was taking care of just a lot of detailed things for the online business to keep running and it kept my mind really busy. I feel like I’ve had this massive download of understanding coming. But I was so busy with details that I didn’t really see what I was, what I was what I could see, because I had so many details on my mind all the time.

After I left, it was like this, because I really didn’t have the next thing lined up. There was this vast opening of space. And that was a wonderful opportunity also, to really I let things unfold.

One of the things I did was I met Azul Leguizamon. She and I became friends maybe a couple years ago. I kept hearing her name, but I never met her. So I reached out to her one day, and we just really hit it off, and we started talking regularly.

She’s so wonderful. And we would share insights. What we found was, I mean, that’s one of the things we did, we talked about a lot of things. But what was so wonderful about that is that we started to notice how sharing our insight was helping, we were helping each other see more of how we were being guided. It was like hearing what we saw, what was helping the other to look more to see how we were being guided.

One of the things that came out of that, I think we started in November, we decided to offer a free webinar series where once a month we offer an open call to anybody. And we call it What Has Wisdom Shown You Lately. It’s an open discussion where everybody can share or just come and listen.

Then what grew out of that, which I honestly did not really expect at all – I guess I really thought whatever I did next was going to be a technical thing again, because that’s what my background is. But we started talking about what would we do if we did a program to teach this understanding or point people in the direction and help people to learn to share it? And help people start up a business of some kind.

I’m going to say it came through us, we ended up writing a year long program that we called The Heart of Service in like a week or two. And then we put together the webpage. And I think we only sent out three emails and we filled our program. It’s very small, we didn’t want to have a big group. And that’s been incredible. And again, following those breadcrumbs, those nudges. Right? It was just the next thing to do.

It’s been really great. We have guest speakers in it. And it’s just been a phenomenal program so far, and the participants seem to really be enjoying it as well. And we’re in the third month of a year long program.

Alexandra: I’m thinking that it really doesn’t surprise me that that’s the way things unfolded after your job with the 3PGC. Because that’s how they happened going into it. Bonnie: When I first learned about the Three Principles I had a handful or two of practitioners as clients, and I did their online website, membership site, etc. So I really saw myself more as a background person. So I think that’s why it surprised me. Oh, I’m facilitating co facilitating with us all.

Alexandra: That makes sense. I love that.

Shifting gears slightly, one of the things that we corresponded about as we were setting up this time to talk was you said you were really interested in one of the more famous quotes from Sydney Banks.

Why don’t you share that quote with us? And then tell us what you’re seeing in it lately?Bonnie: I’m going to read it because, okay, terrible with remembering quotes.

If the only thing people learned was not to be afraid of their experience, that alone would change the world.

Alexandra: That’s right.

Bonnie: That quote has so many levels to it. You can read it at first and say, oh, yeah I can unless a gun’s being pointed to my head, I probably don’t really have to be afraid of my experience.

And then as you start to look deep, burrowed into the principles and start to understand like, alright, we really create our experience. Our experience is truly an inside out experience. And there is nothing to be afraid of. And it just goes deeper from there.

So I do that, that is one of my very favorite quotes from Syd Banks. I do have another favorite quote right now, that’s not a Sydney Banks, quote. It’s a quote by Rumi that I probably first learned about 30 years ago. It just has taken on such new meaning for me in the last six months.

You are not a drop in the ocean. You are the entire ocean in a drop.

That’s another one with so many layers, but that has such deep meanings. Like, yes, when you really start to look down this path, when you really start to look at the three principles as truly being principles in the formless, that create everything. And that we are part of and we are people people say and I guess Syd said this as well – I think he would use the words divine mind, thought, and consciousness as opposed to personal mind, thought and consciousness, but it’s really one thing. We have the opportunity to share in that and to listen to the wisdom that comes through that. And, and so we truly are the entire ocean in a drop. That’s just so delicious.

Alexandra: There’s so much there isn’t there? And when I heard you say that quote, I felt that thing that happens when something makes the leap beyond my logical brain and it resonates within you. I love that feeling.

You mentioned the webinar series that you did with Azul and I will link to her episodes, she has been on the show. So I will link in the show notes to her episode.

Why don’t I ask you what has wisdom shown you lately?Bonnie: That is a great question. Let’s see how to describe this. What I’ve really been seeing is that we all have so much that we can see if we listen to our inner guidance, to wisdom. We also have conditioning; beliefs that are hidden, that we don’t even realize they’re there, until a light is is shone upon them.

As my mind got really quiet all the learning that I was absorbing, but not really realizing how much I really saw brought this, I’m going to call it a bubble of additional thinking that sort of unraveled itself. Some of the things I don’t even really know what they were, but I knew I felt so much lighter.

The latest image I have of it was like if you have a ball of yarn, and you hold one end, and you just push it and it’ll just keep going until it reaches the end. It’s like that. That’s what the experience felt like. It’s like just all these beliefs that were so deeply ingrained, that I wasn’t aware of how they were sort of controlling my life, because I would make decisions.

Because I thought those were truths, not beliefs that I could see through. So as that all came to the surface, it was years of weights lifted, and some of it, I didn’t really know what they were in particular, but I knew something was opening. And some were very painful. When I’d see them, because I could see how it drove actions or reactions in my life, that I thought, because I believed it needed a reaction. All of that opening up has been phenomenal.

Around two or three months ago, I feel it’s because I let go of this whole bundle of condition thinking that what I’ve been noticing is that the nudges that I keep getting now, it’s like when we all seem to feel our feelings in different ways. Some people have very specific things in their body, that they feel about their emotions, and I don’t really, but what I do notice is sort of a wave of energy. Like nothing really specific. But what I’ve been noticing is that I’m getting nudges more quickly. As that wave of energy comes in it’s the same nudge, very often, it’s come back to the moment, come back to the moment.

And I’ve got to tell you it’s been the most incredible experience, to keep getting reminded to come back to the moment. I get them when I’m starting to have some kind of judgment or something going on. Because in the moment, that doesn’t exist. When I first started to get this, I was calling it, it’s been pushing me into my puddle of kindness. I could feel so much kindness toward whatever I was judging, especially judgments that were coming against myself.

Since then, I’ve morphed it into this, this ocean of liquid love. That’s what it feels like, it’s like I can nudge back into just taking a dive into it. And even if it’s just for a nano second, and then I pick up that thinking again, I come out of it with such a different perspective; the feeling changes. That’s been luxurious.

And every once in a while, I get to stay in it more than a nanosecond. People will call it being in the flow. I can be there for a little while longer before thinking takes me back into whatever I’ve decided to make up. And everybody can do that. That’s what everybody can do.

We were taught a lot that now is the only moment there is like, now is as the only thing there is, and it’s so true, it’s like because all our thinking is either thoughts from the past or thinking about the future. And so when you come into that moment, even if it’s just for a nanosecond, it’s no attachment to thoughts. And it’s so beautiful.

So I would say that, that to me, at this time the most significant thing that I would really say that wisdom has been showing me lately, to just keep coming back to the present moment.

Alexandra: Oh, that’s beautiful. And I want to pull out one thing you said a little bit earlier in that, which was, you talked about how when some of your beliefs were unravelling, that could be a little bit painful.

Could you share an example with us?Bonnie: You know, nothing is really coming to mind now. But what I can tell you is that I’m not a big crier. But man, I would sit and sob. All the things are coming to light. I’m not even sure if I always knew what it was when I would start. But what I did know is not to try to stop it, not to do anything about it.

When people who talk about the three principles say there’s nothing you have to do, that’s where I think that applies. It’s something that was coming through me. It was coming out of me, it was energy moving through. And there was nothing that I had to do about it.

I didn’t have to look for better thoughts. I didn’t have to make myself do something else. I could just sit there with it, and wait for wisdom to tell me what to do next. So to me that’s one of the misunderstandings I think a lot of people have when they come into this understanding.

There’s nothing to do. That’s where I think that applies. It doesn’t mean you’re going to sit on the sofa for the rest of your life and do nothing. There’s nothing you have to do.

Alexandra: I loved your wool analogy, your ball of wool analogy, because it reminded me when I was a kid, my grandmother used to knit a lot, or was it crochet anyway, one or the other. She taught me that when you have a skein of wool, if you pull one, there’s two ends, right? If you pull one of them, it can kind of become a bit of a tangled mess, but if you find the other end, it just comes out effortlessly. It doesn’t get all knotted up in itself, and it almost just sort of falls apart. And it’s all very easy.

That was touching me when you spoke about that. There’s two ways to approach this. Bonnie: I love that you just said that, because that’s so true. It’s like they’re some of the memory, the condition thinking that what’s coming up. I saw it before, but I was probably pulling the wrong end. I love that. Thank you. I was pulling the wrong end and making the ball even tighter. But yeah, so I got a hold of the right end. It all flowed out.

Alexandra: Yes.

Bonnie: That’s beautiful.

Alexandra: We created that together. That felt really good. That’s great.

As we come towards the end of our time together, I want to ask you, is there anything that we haven’t touched on that you’d like to share with our listeners today?

Bonnie: I think I already said this, but this would be what I would share. And that is if there’s anything that you set an intention to do, it’s to really get cozy and familiar with how you hear wisdom or see wisdom. I’m sure it comes to everybody in different ways.

Even when I think about how I connect with that, sometimes it’s just a knowing and there’s no words, I just know what to do next. But I’ve also had times where it’s yelled at me, because I wasn’t following it. So I heard words.

I’m sure it probably comes to people in feeling, too. However that is, if you can get familiar with that, with listening to that, hearing that and distinguishing it from your personal wants and desires it just helps life unfold in a magical way.

There’s no techniques and you can’t make it happen. I think you can set an intention or create an environment with being open. But as far as I’m aware, there’s nothing you can do to make that happen. Other than being open to listening to hearing it.

Alexandra: That’s lovely. Thank you, Bonnie. That’s great.

Where can we find out more about you and your work?Bonnie: I do have a very succinct one page website. BonnieJarvis.com

I had a website years ago, but once I started working for 3PGC full time I closed it down and recently rebuilt.

I have a couple of things coming up: there’s the What Has Wisdom Shown You Lately is something that Azul and I do for free every month.

And there’s also the year long program that we call The Heart of service that we are talking about doing again, because we are just loving the program. So we set up a waitlist or a notify me list for that.

And then I’m also fortunate enough to be doing another program with Cathy Casey and Mike Heard and that is called, Stress and anxiety are just an illusion. It’s not what you think, or is it? I don’t have all the details of that. I believe we’re going to start in July and it will be for four sessions over four weeks. But more details will come out of that soon.

That’s what I do. I have been doing one on one sessions. I’ve been calling them Heart to Heart conversations. That’s all and there is a way to contact me on that website as well.

Alexandra: I will put a link in the show notes to your website and BonnieJarvis.com.

Bonnie: Thank you.

Alexandra: Thank you so much for being with me here today. Bonnie. It’s been just lovely chatting with you.

Bonnie: Thank you so much. I’ve always considered myself somebody who was more like, numbers, math and coding oriented and not very eloquent with words. So I hope I was able to share in a way that at least one person is touched by it. If just one person sees something I’d be really, really deeply grateful. So thank you so much.

Alexandra: You’re so welcome. And I would bet that way more than one person is going to be touched by what you’ve said, you did a great job.

Bonnie: Oh, thank you.

Alexandra: All right. Take care. Bye bye.

Featured image photo by Matti Johnson on Unsplash

The post Listening for Guiding Wisdom with Bonnie Jarvis appeared first on Alexandra Amor Books & Courses.

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We all have one: an inner critic. That voice inside our heads that is critical of so much that we do. That voice can become debilitating, if we let it. But when we apply what we know about the Three Principles of innate health, we can teach that voice to take a back seat, where it belongs. And, on a positive note, hearing the inner critic can even become an ally in helping us to practice stepping into a better feeling.

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Show Notes

• A neurosurgeon’s explanation for the inner critic
• A reminder about the purpose an unwanted habit is serving
• How the feeling that comes with the inner critic alerts us to its falsehood
• On the possibility of having a different experience at any moment
• The beautiful feeling that’s always available to us
• How our thinking can be like the grooves in a record

Resources Mentioned in this Episode

• Mind Magic by Dr. James Doty

Transcript of episodeHello explorers, and welcome to episode 65 of Unbroken. I’m Alexandra Amor. I’m here today to talk about the inner critic or that negative voice that can dog us all the time. And this is a subject, particularly close to my heart. I feel like it’s something that I’ve wrestled with for a long time and for a long time, couldn’t see it.

Years ago, it was invisible to me, even though it was going on. And then gradually, I became more and more aware of it, but didn’t know what to do about it. And then I came into this understanding, and I put it off to the side. But it’s come up in my awareness lately. And I’ll tell you a bit more about that in just a moment.

I was reading a book recently about brain science, called I think it’s either called Mind Magic or Magic Mind by Dr. James Doty. And one of the things he mentioned in there was, how his approach to our inner critical voice or his understanding of it was really interesting. And it was about the evolutionary process that we’ve gone through, and how our brains are wired to look for danger.

Given the society that we live in now and how generally safe we are – I hope I can say that about you – that the part of our brain that’s looking out for danger, even looks out for it in our own behavior. So it’s able to be critical of us, or it believes it’s being critical of us, in order to serve a purpose in order to keep us safe.

I probably haven’t explained that, as well as he did in the book. But it got me thinking about the negative voice, the inner critic, that so many of us hear, and maybe don’t hear, that’s maybe silent. I find it at times just kind of running behind whatever else is going on, in my mind, and I’ll talk about in a minute how that doesn’t actually matter if we can’t specifically hear what it’s saying. So that’s some of the good news.

Let’s jump in and talk about this. The reason I wanted to bring it up was that, in the past, we’ve talked about how unwanted habits are working in our favor, even though it might not look like they are. They are a solution, not a problem. And one of the metaphors I use is that unwanted habits are like the valve on the top of a pressure cooker.

The habit itself lets off a bit of the pressure of what’s in the pressure cooker. So this got me thinking about how that inner critic, that negative voice is contributing to the load of what’s in the pressure cooker, it’s contributing to all the stirred up thinking that’s in there, and not in a good way. It’s adding to the pressure that’s in the pressure cooker. And so that means that in a way I think it would help for all of us to look at that kind of negative thinking specifically, and learn how to deal with it, learn how to resolve it. And so that’s what we’re talking about.

Today, I’ve got three tips for helping you to deal with your inner critic. I’ve been experimenting with the tips I’m going to share for the last couple of weeks, and it really feels good. I’m really really enjoying it. It has opened up a space of a good feeling within me. It has taught me at a new level to not take my thinking so seriously, which I really really appreciate. And like I say I just feel this a greater sense of tenderness or compassion, kindness for myself since I’ve been practicing these things, and so of course, that feels really good. So let’s talk about the first tip that I’ve got for dealing with your inner critic.

The first one is pretty easy, and it’s something you’ve probably been looking at a little bit already. And that is to know that:

The thinking that we have going on in our minds is not the truth with a capital T. Thought, of course is like energy, and it’s moving through us all the time. And it is not the absolute truth, even when it looks like it is. So let’s take an example of you are walking along one day and you trip and fall. And there are so many ways that you can react to that situation. In the past, one of the ways that I’ve reacted to any kind of accidental thing that I do – I drop a bottle and it breaks or I trip and fall or the other day, I bumped my hand on a kitchen cabinet knob, and it’s quite sore – my inner critic really flares up in situations like that. So it really takes a hold, and beats me up and it takes the opportunity at that time to tell me that I’m clumsy, or I should have watched more carefully what I was doing, it really does beat me up a little bit in situations like that. And that’s been a historical pattern.

What I found is that as I’ve been using these three tips that I’m going to talk about, it’s actually been fairly easy to break that habit, given what I see now and what I hope to share with you. So we trip and fall, there’s a lot of negative talk in our heads and whatever that looks like. And so the first thing we can realize is that all that thinking that’s going on, it feels so real. And it feels so true. And it’s so easy for us to live in, in the illusion that everything we think is true, and real. And it isn’t.

How our thinking reacts to a situation like that, when we’re being hard on ourselves, is probably based on historically the way we’ve treated ourselves, and probably the way that we’ve heard other people treat us or treat themselves as well, growing up. What we can recognize, and we’re going to dive into this more in a future tip is that whatever the inner critic is saying in that moment, there are so many other possibilities for what could be true.

So to stay with this example, if I tripped and fell on the inner critic told me, or was beating me up, because it was saying I should have been paying more attention. And that’s kind of the one note that it’s playing on, just by understanding that that thinking isn’t that the truth with a capital T is really helpful.

What can be more helpful to seeing that there’s all kinds of other things that might be true in that moment, as well. Maybe there was a little uneven spot in the sidewalk and that’s why I fell. Maybe I was getting out of the way, I tried to be kind to someone and just kind of caught my foot. Maybe my shoes are too big. There’s all kinds of reasons that that particular circumstance that could have happened, which simply points out to us that whatever the noise is, the critical, negative noise that’s going on in our heads that’s not the absolute truth with a capital T.

And again, I say, Yes, it does feel like that. And yes, it’s so easy for us to be completely wedded to that thinking and to imagine that everything we think is true. But looking in this direction, about what other possibilities are available to us, is really helpful, especially in this case of dealing with our negative thinking. So that’s tip number one. Remember, you know as often as you can, that the critical noisy thinking in your head isn’t necessarily the truth with a capital T.

The second tip is that the feeling that you have, when that negative or critical thinking is going on, is telling you that it’s not the truth. So, in other words, we don’t need to turn this into a situation where we’re monitoring our thoughts all the time, and trying to catch them all. Because that actually will take us in the wrong direction. We will add more thought, more pressure into the pressure cooker. So we can let that go. We don’t need to manage and monitor every thought that’s happening.

Our design is built so that it lets us know when our thinking is critical. The way that we feel when that happens is the alarm bell, or the barometric reading, however you want to call it, it’s the thing that’s going to let us know. And sometimes we can skate past that, especially if we’re used to a lot of critical thinking, and used to the inner critic. And yet, what we can do, as we gradually begin to notice this happening, the feeling that we’re having, and the fact that the feeling is alerting us to the fact that we’re having some negative thinking, it becomes a habit it becomes it becomes a habit in itself.

It becomes automatic to notice what’s going on. I’ll give you one specific example. I experience a lot of urgency when my inner critic is really flared up. I notice that urgency pretty quickly. So I feel that in my body, I feel it in my solar plexus, like there’s a tightness, there’s a clenched feeling. And then I kind of feel it in my I would say, my chest and my shoulders that I need to, yeah, there’s just this impulse inside me, it’s almost like it’s telling me to run. And what it’s telling me is to go faster, to do more.

I know that that comes from a habit that I picked up. So as soon as I feel that feeling I can be sure that I’ve got some thinking going on, that’s not serving me that the inner critic has flared up. And those feelings in my body will always tell me the truth about what’s going on in my head.

If we’re thinking it, we’re feeling it. When that happens, I can go back to tip number one, and think to myself consciously, that there’s another experience to be had here.

I had this happen this morning, actually, when I was having a conversation with somebody. And I felt that urgent feeling, come upon me for absolutely no reason. I wasn’t in any kind of a time crunch. So I just did a little bit of silent talking to myself, and reminded myself that that feeling was letting me know that my thinking was not the truth, that I was feeling like there, I was thinking that I needed to move quickly, I needed to get out of the conversation that I was in and move on. And that wasn’t true at all.

Through that little inner process, I was able to relax into the conversation. That didn’t resolve the feelings, all of them, immediately. But I was able to step into a much more peaceful place in that moment by remembering that my body was alerting me to what was going on in my mind.

This brings us to tip number three.

Tip number three has to do with the awareness of the possibility of a different experience. In that situation that I just mentioned about the conversation I was having, I simply became aware that there was the possibility to have another experience in this conversation with this person I was talking to. Now, we don’t need to get too attached to what that experience is going to be.

For example, let’s go back to the trip and fall example. So you trip and fall, having a lot of negative thinking about it, you notice, first of all, you remember that your thinking is not the truth with a capital T. That’s tip number one.

Then Tip number two, you, again, you’re noticing the feelings in your body, and how maybe you’re having a physical reaction to the thoughts that you’re having, or they just don’t feel good, they just make you feel kind of yucky. So that’s tip number two, you’ve noticed that the feeling the feedback that you’re getting, is that the thinking that you’re having isn’t the truth, and your body is alerting you to that or your experience is alerting you to that.

And then you remember that there could be another possibility. There’s another way to think about this tripping experience. And again, what’s important to know is, you don’t have to know what that alternative is that the universe is there with its wisdom, with its intelligence, and its creativity, its infinite infinite creativity. When we feel like we’re in the grip of a bunch of negative thinking, and this is the reason why this tip is so important, is that there’s always a possibility of another experience to be had. And when we know that it softens things and, and opens them up a little bit.

What I was picturing when I was preparing to do this episode was a tight little ball of string, and it’s all tangled in knots. And when we’re aware that there’s a possibility, for another experience, I just see that tight little ball of string kind of loosen. So you know when you see a ball of wool that’s quite loosely wound, that’s the difference between the tight little ball of string and the availability of possibilities.

So that’s tip number three, being open to the idea that there is always the possibility to have a different experience in any given moment. We like to feel of course, and our minds like to feel that we’re in control, and that we know the outcome of everything, and we know how things are going to go. But when we can soften a little bit and open up to the idea that there are infinite possibilities available. That, to me, anyway, creates a much better experience of life. My grip isn’t so tight on it, and it it can flow much more easily through me.

That sounds kind of wishy washy, but I guess I mean, it just does, it feels like to me, like, the more open I am to the idea that I’m not in charge, that life is flowing through me, and that it is wise, even when things are going wrong, even when things are not going the way I would like them to go.

I had a different conversation this morning that was difficult and things are not going the way I would like them to go in that situation. And by remembering that there’s a greater intelligence involved and that it is flowing through both myself and the other person I was having in the conversation with and that there are, as I said earlier, infinite possibilities available that could you know, come to light, could occur to someone or could change the situation, that allows me to let life flow to a greater degree within me and just seems to make things honestly so much easier. It lessons my suffering about what’s going on.

That’s the key really, isn’t it, for all of us; we don’t want to suffer. We want to suffer less. Relying on that universal intelligence, that wisdom that’s always available to us is, to me, it seems one way to be able to do that.

The final thing I want to wrap up with is reminding you I’ve said this before, but I want to say it again, because it’s so connected to what we’re talking about today. A few episodes back, I think I talked about how Michael Singer who’s a spiritual teacher, talks about how there’s really only one practice. And that practice is to relax. That’s the one thing we can do, that will ease our suffering.

That points to exactly what I just said, when we relax, we allow the wisdom of the universe to step in and to flow much more freely through us. And my friend, Tania Elfersy, who’s been on this show a couple of times, she phrases that slightly differently. She refers back to Sydney Banks who said, over and over again, to look for a beautiful feeling. And that, again, really ties into when we’re talking about this inner critic, that inner critic doesn’t feel good. And when we notice it, when it gives us those signals in our body, another way to say that we can look for the other possibilities are that are available, is to say, look for a good feeling.

There’s a beautiful, or a good, feeling available to us at all times. It is the thing that will loosen us up, that will change the thinking that’s going on in our heads. When I have a lot of critical thinking, I go through these steps, remember them, I tend to imagine myself stepping into a good feeling, a beautiful feeling. Now, that doesn’t necessarily mean I can feel it all the time. But it does mean that I’m open to the fact that it does exist, that there’s a good feeling to be had.

Even if the needle inside me just moves one little notch toward a good feeling, you know, one little notch away from the yucky feelings that my critical thinking have been giving me that my body’s been giving me that feedback, that’s a victory to me.

Circling back to the brain book I was talking about, I imagine that there is a physical result from doing this. So in other words, we are physical beings, of course, as well as spiritual beings. And we have those physical, neural pathways in our brain. And they can be like the grooves in a record. So when something happens, when we’re triggered, like, your spouse doesn’t load the dishwasher properly, and they never do it the way that you want them to do it. The needle inside ourselves can fall into that groove and just go running with all the usual things that we say about the dishwasher and our spouse and how they never listen and all that kind of stuff.

But by practicing the tips that I’ve talked about today, what’s going to happen is new neural pathways are going to be built. So that needle falling into that old groove is going to happen less and less. And that path is going to be built somewhere else.

In other words, it feels like this is both a spiritual practice and it’s going to have some physical results in our brain. Now I’m not a neurosurgeon, and I’m not mapping my brain at this time. But I suspect that that will be happening as well, as we practice these three tips.

I hope that’s been helpful for you. If you’re someone who struggles with a lot of negative self talk, the thing we often call the inner critic, what I’m realizing is it’s not as complicated to change my relationship to that kind of noise, that kind of negative thinking, as I used to think it was. And like I said earlier, there’s a balance.

There’s a way to do this without monitoring our thoughts and adding a lot more work to be done. And that’s the balance that I would love to see you strike. And so like I said earlier, this isn’t about monitoring your thoughts. It’s not about managing what you’re thinking, because your design is perfect. And it will always let you know when you’re thinking. And when it alerts you to that with the feelings in your body, then you can do something about it, but until then, you don’t need to worry about it. And when that happens, it’s just very simple. Knowing that there are other possibilities and stepping toward a better feeling, knowing that it’s possible to have a better feeling in that moment. I hope that’s been helpful.

I look forward to talking to you again soon. Thanks for being here. I really appreciate it. And I will talk to you on the next episode. Bye.

Featured image photo by Uwe Conrad on Unsplash

The post 3 Tips For Dealing With The Inner Critic appeared first on Alexandra Amor Books & Courses.

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When it comes to our mental well-being and our physical health it can be so easy to look outspide ourselves for answers. Ellen Friedman takes a different approach; she guides her clients inward to connect with the innate wisdom and wellness that is already there.

Ellen Friedman guides people home to the sacred space within, where they shift their relationship with themselves, their health, and others. She partners with people who are curious to explore a simple path to wholeness through the inside out nature of life.

In addition to having a Master’s degree in Spiritual Psychology with an emphasis in Consciousness Health and Healing, Ellen has a Certificate in Soul-Centered Professional Coaching, and she shares the Three Principles understanding. Her journey has been blessed coaching nearly 1000 divine beings using a human experience to remember who they truly are.

You can find Ellen Friedman at HealingHouseCalls.com.

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Show Notes

• Seeing the whole person when it comes to healing
• Noticing how health improves when our nervous system is downregulated
• Ellen’s personal discoveries experiencing chronic fatigue
• How mental busyness affects our physical health
• How fatigue can be a signal that there is pressure on our mental system
• Are you the source of your energy?
• How our feelings are a barometer for what’s going on within us

Resources Mentioned in this Episode Mavis Karn’s book It’s That Simple* * Mavis Karn’s Unbroken podcast episode * Azul Leguizamon’s Unbroken podcast episode

Transcript of Interview with Ellen FriedmanAlexandra: Ellen Friedman, welcome to Unbroken.

Ellen: I’m so happy to be here with you, Alexandra.

Alexandra: I’m so happy to have you here.

Tell our audience a little bit about yourself and your background and how you got interested in the three principles.Ellen: I’m always amused where that story begins every time. I was happily minding my own business, enjoying my career as a physical therapist, when the knock on the door to coach came in 2011. And I was like but I love what I do. I thought you had to be miserable to do something else.

Then I started feeling miserable by not following that. I got in my car one day after seeing a patient and I was like, almost without logic, and I said, Okay, I heard you, I’m coming back. So I began coaching in 2011.

Then, in 2013, in a coach training program, one of the instructors introduced a video on the inside out understanding of stress. At that time, it was a really old video. And I remember the feeling inside me, I can like, remember the chair I was sitting in. I remember the feeling. And then I also remember my personal mind going, Oh, but we’ve got techniques and tools and things to do with people.

Alexandra: Moving forward from there was it difficult to get your head around the idea of no tools and techniques?Ellen: I’m not sure because what was more difficult was trying to intellectually figure out what this understanding was. I spent a long time reasoning with what I was learning, comparing it to what I had already known. Seeing where it fit in, seeing where things didn’t fit in. And at that time, at that time, there were so many free opportunities to learn. I mean, there are today, but there were so many opportunities, and you and I could participate in almost all of them. And, there were also many wonderful paid opportunities and workshops and trainings. And, and you didn’t have to choose because there weren’t the abundance that there is today.

Alexandra: So this was around 2011 or 2012?

Ellen: 2013 was when I first heard that, and then it stayed on the back burner until 2016. But Alexandra, I am so clear that it doesn’t matter how many years you’ve been looking in this direction or exploring the principles because we we all see what we see when we see it. And don’t you love it with when clients just see something that you don’t see? I mean, it’s so fun.

Alexandra: Absolutely. Insight doesn’t really have a timeline, does it? I mean, it can happen anytime.

You mentioned being a physiotherapist.

You had an interest in healing, and helping people. Can you tell us a little bit about that? And where that began to if you know.Ellen: Where was the interest in physical therapy health?

Alexandra: Well, yeah, healing and those kinds of things.

Ellen: I didn’t have any exposure to physical therapy, personally or for family members. So I don’t remember exactly how I landed on it other than healthcare seemed kind of interesting. But nursing didn’t and going to medical school I had no drawn to.

The allied health professions sounded fun and interesting and had a couple of opportunities to work as an aide and, and I was like, Okay, I’m going to do this. And so I went to physical therapy school. And different circumstances in school led me down the path of wanting to work with people who had chronic neurologic or new neurologic conditions. So that was a specialty for me right out right out the gates.

What I really loved about that is, you kind of had to look at the whole person; when someone has an injured back or an injured wrist or an injured knee or have had surgery, it can be very easy to be focused on the body part or the joint. But looking back, I was interested in the whole person. And I remember right out of physical therapy school, I had two patients, both of them had very similar strokes, their MRIs looked similar. And they had completely different outcomes. And I was so fascinated by that.

Alexandra: Oh, that is really interesting. Wow, that is so cool. So transitioning then, I noticed on your blog, you have a post about rest and its importance. I think our culture is so not wired that way. Rest is almost a four letter word.

Can you talk about rest and its importance, and why you recommend it to your clients.Ellen: I recommend it because it works. Well, there’s so many different things that come to come to mind now. I literally was witnessing miracles or what looked like miracles in the people that I was working with, who had multiple sclerosis, ALS, stroke, brain injury, I worked with a lot of people who survived traumatic brain injury.

When their nervous system was downregulated, they did better, they had less pain, they had less more mobility. And so it just began to make sense to explore that with people and let them figure out what works for them. I worked with a lot of people with MS because I actually trained in a hospital where every patient in the hospital had multiple sclerosis; it was wild that that even existed.

This was before there were any medications to help people with their symptoms. I would notice that almost every one of my patients would be busy doing everything they could before they hit the wall of fatigue, and then they say things like, that’s all I can do for the day or, or I’m okay till noon around them okay till two o’clock.

I won’t get into the details of story, but I’m happy to share it with anyone who who inquires, a patient suddenly went from requiring rest at four hours after she woke up to eight hours. Increasing endurance from four to eight hours seemed impossible. People were taking medications to try and do that. And that wasn’t happening to them while helping.

I noticed that she and what a big part of her treatment program was, was relaxation exercises, and what I call down regulating the nervous system. Rest is the simplest form. Well, maybe not this one of the simple forms of of down regulating the nervous system. I think taking a long, deep exhale is also a very simple way and learning to rest before full exhaustion is so important for all of us neurologic condition or not.

Alexandra: Do you meet resistance when you suggest this now to clients?Ellen: Well, I’m just going to explore your question a little bit more because I don’t really think that I suggest it to people. I explore with them what happens when they do. What happens when they don’t? I share stories and then they kind of come up with Well, maybe I could try that.

Now, as a physical therapist, I did recall having resistance. No, I can’t, I have to get everything done before noon, because I’m not good after that. And this other clients, she was like, Oh, I’m good to one now. Oh, I’m good till a couple of weeks later, oh, I’m good till two o’clock, oh, I’m good till three o’clock.

She goes, oh, I never have energy after four. And I said, Really, even after what’s happened? Oh, I can’t. Because if I have energy after four o’clock, then I have to make dinner and I don’t ever want to make dinner for the rest of my life. And I said, I can’t help you with, I can’t help you have energy after four, if that’s what it means to you. But maybe it could mean something else. That’s what I said, maybe it means something else. So the suggestion would come in the form of stories and explorations and experiments I love. I love the idea of experimenting. Because you can’t get it wrong in an experiment.

Alexandra: Say more about what that looks like.Ellen: It could look like we’ll just experiment with resting and not sleeping, or just experiment with tuning into your body. What would it look like to go to the gas station and fill your car before the red lights going put more fuel in me? If you fill up a gas tank in a car, when it’s half full, or half empty, whichever, whichever you see it, then it takes less time to fill up the tank. And so when you rest, you are down regulating the nervous system. And there’s so many different ways to do that. It takes less time.

We can even experiment in a session with you know, I have a lot of people that used to measure their fatigue, and I’m like, Let’s measure energy instead.

Alexandra: So in other words, on a scale of one to 10, this is how tired I am.Ellen: Yes. But I would say, on a scale of one to 10, with 10 being the most energy you’ve ever had, how much energy do you have?

Alexandra: I’m going to ask this question from a very personal place. What do you see as some of the causes or some of the primary causes of fatigue? You’re obviously dealing with people with physical issues.

Ellen: Not always. There’s lots of things that create fatigue, and trying to figure them out is no longer necessary for me, for myself, or for my clients. In fact, I’m on the other side of three autoimmune conditions, one of them being chronic fatigue syndrome.

In the past, I would see fatigue as an indicator or as a marker of illness or disease or a reminder that I have something and it doesn’t even enter my mind anymore to be anything other than an indicator of my body saying, Please give me a little bit of rest.

Alexandra: That’s really fascinating to me, that chronic fatigue. And so that was something that you experienced yourself.

Can you tell us a little bit about that journey and what you saw?Ellen: I was masterful at avoiding discomfort. I have to be honest, I’ve never really shared with many of my practitioners that I had it because there was nothing you could do. It came at the top many, many, many years ago. It came with a lot of ideas around mental health and emotional health.

But then I had a client I was working with a client that had chronic fatigue and Lyme disease. And she started telling me some of her chronic fatigue symptoms. And it was like, oh, like, she’s waking up with a sore throat, waking up more tired than when you went to bed. I was like, Oh, I guess I guess that I do have chronic fatigue. I thought it was just chronic stress. So back to your question again, I’m sorry.

Alexandra: I’m just interested in your experience of chronic fatigue, and how you might see it now, with your understanding of the principles.

Ellen: Well, I have to say, it’s really hard to tap into how I felt, because it was for such a long time, and I can’t even say like it started here. But the understanding that I have now is, whether it’s chronic fatigue syndrome, or any fatigue, I think the mental busyness is a huge component to it.

And as I say that I’m aware that I also at one time in my life had a fairly rigid meditation practice. I wouldn’t say that I was feeling any better. My fatigue symptoms were not better when I was meditating, they’re probably better now that I’m living into a meditative life rather than having a daily sit practice.

I think there’s so many mental, emotional, and physical contributions to fatigue. Food, environmental toxins, but mental busyness mental stress is a huge contributor for all disease and illness processes. A huge contributor.

Alexandra: I find that so fascinating. Because one thing I know about myself is how busy my mind has been. And it’s gradually slowing down over the years, now that I understand the role that thought plays in our lives, and I still find myself quite fatigued. I described myself as having no stamina. I have very little stamina. I know that that comes from a busy mind. That just seems to be what’s been the constant in my life.

I want to ask you, if you had a client who recognized that their busy mind was affecting their levels of energy, how would you approach that with them?Ellen: I don’t know. There’s so many different ways. But let’s talk since you brought it up. Let’s talk about you.

Alexandra: Okay, sure.

Ellen: I know this identification with or stamina, low activity tolerance, I had that script running for a long time and not too long ago. And one day, I was somewhere and I hiked six miles. I haven’t hiked six miles in years. And I felt so good doing it and I was like, Oh, I guess I don’t have poor stamina. I guess I don’t have poor endurance. I just thought I did.

I just experiment with what would you like to do more up and do it? I remember the days when I would like okay, I can do this much of a walk or I can exercise and I just see how masterful my personal mind, my ego, was trying to control and manage my life rather than let’s just see, let’s just see, let’s just walk out the door.

What if we just know when we turn around? And what if we push too hard and then we have to take a longer than normal rest? From my PT days, I do remember that telling people if you need more than a 10 minute rest, when you get back then you’ve probably done a little too much. So what? So you rest a little bit more. But the background noise of poor stamina, low energy is, can be louder than we think.

Alexandra: Yes, absolutely. And it’s interesting to see that attachment to my identity of that idea of not having a lot of stamina or energy.

I can almost see myself telling myself that story.Ellen: For sure. An experiment would be what do you love to do? Where do you love to walk or move?

A couple of months ago, we were at a friend’s house and I said, what is that? And she said, it’s a water rower and I said, I’ve never heard of a water rower. It’s a rowing machine that uses water as resistance. I love the sound of water, no matter how it comes; waterfall, ocean, streams. And my husband’s like, I can’t believe how committed you are to the rower every day. Commitment doesn’t come from here. It comes from I just love being on the rower and I love feeling my entire body working.

Alexandra: Oh, isn’t that amazing? I love that. As we’re touching on this, it occurs to me as well, that it feels like it’s all on me to manage my energy and kind of parse it out in ways so that I don’t run out of gas.

Ellen: I’ve got a great story for that. Before I go to the story of whose energy is that, the other thing back to just fatigue in general, there’s so many contributing factors. I investigated all of them heavily, especially food and where this food was sourced, and all sorts of stuff around food.

And what did that do? It just added more mental pressure, more mental energy to it. And so sometimes, sometimes not. So now, when I have any kind of symptoms that are I just think, Oh, I’ve got pressure on the system. Just got pressure on the system. What does my body want right now? Does it want some breathing? Does it want to sit down and relax back in a chair or lie down?

Alexandra: Nice. Oh, I love that. And then you said you had a story? Ellen: I was blessed with the opportunity to speak at the London conference in 2019. The conference was Sunday, Monday, Tuesday. My talk was Monday at 1pm and Saturday night, I was committed to officiating a wedding on the east coast of the United States. And I’m closer on the East Coast than I am on the southwest of the US so I landed and officiated the wedding. The next day, got on a plane to Heathrow landed at the airport landed.

As we’re landing, I’m thinking, Hmm, how many hours sleep did I get? Because I was trying. I was like working hard to sleep on the plane. I couldn’t calculate if I had a total of two hours. I remember feeling this oh my gosh, two hours of sleep. How are you going to do this? And I heard and felt, “You are not the source of your energy.”

Alexandra: Wow. That is so cool.

Ellen: I had so much fun at that talk. The whole day was great. And the whole night, I didn’t have any jetlag, I didn’t have any pressure on the system. I didn’t have any fatigue. I loved how I showed up for myself and for the people that were present. That really stayed with me for everything. We’re not the source. Source is the source, right?

Alexandra: Yes. Wow, that’s so great.

Ellen: What happened to you when you heard that? I’m just curious, because I felt a shift within you.Alexandra: It’s so easy for me to fall into, it’s all on me. Whatever ‘it’ is. So it can be manifesting something, or it can be in a relationship. It’s all on me. Figuring everything out. So I need to keep hearing this message over and over and over again.

Ellen: Is that true that you need to hear it over and over and over again?Alexandra: I guess every time it clicks with me again, it feels good, feels like a new, deeper awareness that it’s not all on me.

Ellen: And the other thing that has helped me and the clients that I’ve worked with along that journey is, not only is it not all on me. But I’m always going to have some variation of thinking that it’s on me. And that’s what I love most. That’s one of the things I really love about this understanding is that understanding has helped me to really deepen my acceptance of the human condition, and of me as a human.

And that even though I know something, and even if it’s not just an intellectual knowing but a knowing that I’m not the source of my energy, there’s still going to be personal mind ego tendencies to forget it, or to want to grasp a hold of control, because I see that the personal mind, my personal mind, is masterful for me.

Knowing how to maintain the illusion of safety, security, and control and some insight many years back, had me see the perfection and the mastery of my ego doing that. And since then, I’ve had so much humor when I see it, it’s like oh, you again. You’re trying to pull me into thinking that you’re the source of my energy. Hmm, what a clever way you do that. And it was never light hearted with my relationship with myself before. Like I was serious.

Alexandra: It was serious work.Ellen: It was serious.

Alexandra: Something you said there made me want to go a bit deeper. It was around I’ve lost it now. Maybe it’ll come back. Probably it will. We’ll see.

On your website, you have a mention of healing the beyond dis-ease. Can you tell us what that is and what that looks like to you?Ellen: Well, first of all, just the word dis-ease I’ve come to know as lack of ease. When I feel a lack of ease and any part of my life it’s a little tap on the shoulder to move into ease, to move into instead of swimming across the current or upstream to flow downstream with ease.

I’ve been blessed to witness so many people who have chronic illness and I hate to say it this way and I’ve been blessed to have so many winners, so many people have deep, emotional, spiritual, mental healings, deep forgiveness for themselves and others in spite of their physical illness not shifting. Because again, for me just like, source is the source of energy. Source is also the source of physical healing.

Alexandra: Right, so it’s in other words, it’s not all on them for the healing, right? I feel personally challenged by living in ease. I guess that’s partly habit. And part maybe partly ego, like you just reflected on; my ego wants to be in control, it wants to manage everything.

Ellen: So that’s the way it works. It no longer makes sense for me to try and make it do anything different other than to recognize and become aware that it’s masterful for me and your ego is masterful for you.

Alexandra: Right and so holding that lightly, like you talked about a minute agoEllen: Yes. I think the other thing that can be really helpful is no matter what it is, is like what is it that you really want?

I hear you don’t want the low stamina, the low energy but what is it that you do want? And how would you feel if you had that and 90 percent of the time, it’s the same thing. I mean, that was different people. I’m saying like, take 100 people or 1000 people that I’ve worked with now, it’s all some variation of peace or being in a state of loving and so coming close if that is there something like is that true for you?

Was there another word for you or for your clients that you think that they that people are really seeking?

Alexandra: I think peace is the one that resonates the greatest the most with me personally.Ellen: I did the doing on almost anything that was possible to find peace, literally on my hands and knees before I believed in anything to preach toward. I meditated for peace 360 days a year. I medicated for peace. I learned lots of skills and tools and techniques to try and calm down.

I’m laughing because it just makes no sense to try and calm down my human and I think one thing that all that effort did was show me how committed I was to it. When I’m moving away from that peaceful feeling I’m just more sensitive to it now.

It was the habit. I was always back here in some variation of chaos or stress or tension. But now I’m sensitive to moving toward or away from it and I can catch myself so instead of in the past, it would have been like what do we do to not be in this tension place? Not possible. But having this sensitivity of you know that I’m moving more in the direction of peace or away from peace has been really a helpful guide.

Alexandra: I want to ask a follow up question. For our listeners, you talked about all the things you were doing to try to achieve peace. What do you do differently now? What’s the alternative to that? You talked about that a little bit about that sensitivity.

Ellen: I want to be aware that I want to share that, it sounds like I’m not happy with the things I did in the past. They all made sense at the time, they looked like good ideas. They were helpful, for sure. But I didn’t know what was possible.

And I would say, I still don’t know what’s possible, I think that that experience of living in peace is ever expansive, that I’ll really, really never know the edges of that.

Now, I don’t have to fix or change or do anything when there’s tension. I feel like tension is just kind of like a divine tap on the shoulder waking me up.

I might choose to stay in the tense place for a moment, but I know, it won’t stay. I know it’s temporary. So if it serves me in that moment to stay there, so be it. And I would say this, this leads me into this. This other thing, this other area that’s really shifted for me is I’ve become more and more aware of how somehow I mastered feeling when I wanted to feel when I wanted to feel it and how I wanted to feel it. So it was very controlling about my feeling experience of life. I thought that because I could feel and because I could cry and because I could get angry that I felt all the feelings. But I really wasn’t not to the level I’m am now.

I’ve become so attuned or sensitive to my feeling state. So I think of like, my anxiety that I was medicated for. And the continuum of anxiety now, I could literally sometimes feel just a very shift, very brief shift in my breath, where it’s more shallow. And I’m like, oh, that anxiety train is driving by. I don’t have to get on it. The wakeup is that I don’t have to get on it.

At the other extreme, maybe there’s some heart palpitations. But maybe that’s when I wake up to there’s anxiety stirring. Or just a pressure and uneasiness. There’s just this continuum and I just love that I’ve become so sensitive to it, that I don’t spend a lot of time outside of a peaceful state. We never really went into this quiet mind, quiet body, but the peaceful mind, peaceful body really makes a difference. I know that’s what has helped me reverse three autoimmune conditions and other things that are currently healing in my body.

Alexandra: I want to point out for listeners to that what you’re pointing to, is that the feeling that comes always lets us know the truth of what we’re thinking, it’s always there giving us feedback. So that tension that you described, you use that word, is not bad or wrong or something to be managed or fixed. It’s simply a message.

Ellen: An indicator.

Alexandra: An indicator letting you know.Ellen: I love the metaphor of a barometer, because what a barometer does is it measures pressure on the system. Sometimes I feel it with a shift of a breath. And sometimes I feel it with a shift in my heart rate, it doesn’t matter. Before the understanding that I have now it would have been like, what do I do to avoid the more severe ones? I’m laughing because it didn’t work. And now it’s like, oh, I caught it when it was here. And sometimes I catch it when it’s here. And ad that’s just the way it works.

Alexandra: I love that barometer metaphor. It’s such a good one. And when we think about it, if we spent a lot of time looking at the barometer that’s on the wall and saying, Well, you know, a movement of the needle within this zone is okay. But if you go outside that I won’t be okay. None of that is true, either.

Ellen: I love that expansion, too. It’s not true.

Alexandra: And I love hearing that, for you being able to rest in peace has helped you with these autoimmune conditions. That’s so extraordinary. And so often with guests on the show, too. And I love hearing this. We’ve tried so many things. And again, innocently, like you pointed out, and those things looks like the right thing to do at the time.

Noticing the difference between knowing that we are peace, versus searching for it is so powerful.Ellen: And for me, it was also a period of time that the knowing that I was peace was way more intellectual than the experience of I am peace. I was really, really kind of, Oh, I know, peace, because I was comparing it to the massive anxiety that I used to write. I’m not saying that I and as I said before, I don’t know, the boundaries, the depths of what peace is available, but I have unknowing that it’s way more than I could ever imagine.

Alexandra: We’re coming toward the end of our time together, I want to ask you to tell us about your project around Mavis Karn’s book, It’s That Simple. Mavis has been on the show, and for the listeners, I’ll link to Mavis’s episode in the show notes.

So tell us what you’re working on.Ellen: Please do because I’ve had so many amazing mentors. But something happened with Mavis and this book.

She wrote a book called It’s That Simple: A User’s Manual for Human Beings. It’s a series of 15 letters. I read one, two, and three, and I woke up in the middle of the night thinking, I’ve got to talk to Mavis about this. This must be a program.

Something said don’t email her, because it could be a short conversation. So let’s do it. Let’s have a conversation with her. So I set up a time to talk to her and I said, Mavis, I woke up at three in the morning and this book needs to be a program. And she said, Well, what does that look like? So we talked about it and she asked me if I would do it with her.

Then a few minutes later, she said, Oh, you know, just an hour ago, someone asked me the same thing. I think the two of you should go off and do it together. So I ran five programs with her virtual assistant Azul, which was lovely. It was our first time working together. We just jumped into doing it.

We had small groups where we invited people to have the book or not, it wasn’t a book club. And in each session I would read a letter and we would have a shared experience of what people heard, where it made sense, where it didn’t make sense, where the exceptions were.

I just want to say stay tuned to how it’s gonna come out in the world. I am on a new venture to put it out where it’s more accessible to people, anytime a day or night and not just by enrolling in a program. So we’ll see how that unfolds. It feels like a big, well, I could make a good idea that it’s a big project, and let’s let it but when I remember this feeling that said, there’s something else that you can do with this. And it’s easy.

Alexandra: Nice. Touching back in with that feeling. That’s great.

Is there anything that we haven’t touched on today that you’d like to share with our listeners?Ellen: I love that you asked me that. I want people to know that I’m also really committed to educating and informing people on End of Life Options. And in each state, and each country has different laws and rules. But there are some end of life options that are universal, they can happen and that you can do anywhere.

Knowing what you want at end of life and sharing that with people is so important, because in my health care, working days I saw so many families struggle over thinking that they knew what their loved when their loved one couldn’t speak anymore, or share what they wanted, that they that they knew. And we might know now we can always change our mind.

I’m really committed to educating as many people as I can on that. And I love that conversation as well.

Alexandra: Wow, that’s so fascinating. I love that too. That’s a subject that’s dear to my heart as well, just based on personal experiences. And various other things. So I love hearing you say that.

Ellen: Thanks for having another conversation about that.

Alexandra: Ellen, this has been awesome.

Why don’t you let everyone know where they can find out more about you and your work?Ellen: I’m always open to an email Ellen@healinghousecalls.com. My website is healinghousecalls. And I also have a healthcare-coaching.com website where I support health care providers, doctors, nurses and others to know that stress and burnout is optional. Even in the workplace, even in that workplace.

Alexandra: I will put links in the show notes to those things.

Ellen: Thank you so much for a fun conversation, and more than fun, meaningful, deeply meaningful conversation. I’m always open to inviting people into a conversation. I don’t buy a pair of jeans without trying them on. So I don’t want to hire someone or think about working with someone before I try them on.

Alexandra: Oh, that’s a great way to put it. Thanks so much, Ellen. Take care.

Ellen: Bye for now.

Featured image photo by Alessio Soggetti on Unsplash

The post We Are The Peace We Seek with Ellen Friedman appeared first on Alexandra Amor Books & Courses.

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We usually think of stress as coming from the circumstances that surround us: busy jobs, busy lives, difficult bosses or clients. But what if stress has another origin? What if it comes from the thinking we have in any given situation?

Clare Downham is the dedicated mentor you need on your unique journey to unlock your innate potential and cultivate a thriving business aligned with your true purpose. As a certified ILM Success Mentor, she specialises in guiding emerging and established female entrepreneurs to embrace their innate mindfulness and harness it as a powerful tool for success.

With a deep understanding of the inside-out nature of our human experience, Clare expertly navigates the complexities of the entrepreneurial journey, helping women to silence the inner critic, dissolve self-doubt and cultivate a strong sense of intuition and self-trust.

You can find Clare Downham at ClareDownham.com and on Insight Timer at claredownham.

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Show Notes

• On what happens when we ignore warning signs from our bodies
• The false messages business owners receive about having to be ‘on’ and ‘up’ all the time
• How motivation ebbs and flows naturally and there’s nothing wrong when we’re at a low ebb
• On the cyclical nature of levels of personal energy
• How some of our best ideas come during down or quiet times
• How we believe we need to be busy all the time and that resting is ‘lazy’
• How we so often try to be in a different feeling state than the one we’re naturally in
• On overwhelm and its one cause
• How being in the present moment starves stress of the oxygen it needs

Resources Mentioned in this Episode

• Insight Timer

Transcript of Interview with Clare DownhamAlexandra: Clare Downham, welcome to Unbroken.

Clare: Hello. Lovely to be here.

Alexandra: Oh, my pleasure. It’s lovely to see you.

Why don’t you tell us a little bit about your background and how you got interested in the Three Principles.Clare: I was a primary school head teacher. So our primary school in the UK is aged three to 11. I was in primary education for 20 years. And the last five or so I was a head teacher to two different schools. And I became very stressed, although I didn’t know I was stressed at all, I didn’t have a clue.

I knew there were things wrong with me. But I thought those things were what was wrong with me rather than stress as the underlying cause. One day I went into work, fully intending to start my working day and I took one look at my computer. And it was like, it was like I was frozen. It was like, my body just finally went, “No, no more, let’s go, let’s leave.”

I literally did walk out of work. And I never went back in the end. Didn’t know I wasn’t going to go back. I thought it was going to have a nap, and have a little rest for a couple of weeks and then go back. But that’s not what happened.

I was initially diagnosed with depression, because I was burnt out. And it looks very similar. Because all your motivation is gone. You can’t get out of bed, you can’t really do anything. But all the way through they were saying it was depression, I kept thinking I don’t feel depressed, I’m not really in a low mood, I’ve just got no energy, it was like it had been syringed out of me.

It was a messy year. I didn’t work for a year, I was off sick for a year. And through a vast part of that it was all depression, depression, it’s depression. So obviously I was taking tablets, I was trying all sorts of things to cure myself with depression. And it was only really much later on in that journey that I realized that I burnt out and realized actually how stressed I’d been and how, as I learned about stress, how my body had been screaming the warning signs at me. But I had just ignored them or not known they were there.

I didn’t deliberately ignore them, I just didn’t know they were there. I didn’t know that’s what they were telling me. So a year went by, and eventually my governing body and the people I was working for needed to know when I was going to come back. And I just didn’t know. I couldn’t give them an answer because I was still not brilliant. And so in the end, I had to resign.

I resigned on the first of April. April fool. I think it’s quite funny that I resigned the first of April, and then didn’t know what I was going to do. Obviously at that point, apart from just, it felt like a massive, I actually got a lot better once that weight had been almost like my thinking. Now I know my thinking about going back to work was really not helping my recovery. So I didn’t know what I was going to do.

Then I got a random email 10 days afterwards which invited me to train to be a hypnotherapist. This is in 2016 I resigned. And so I thought, well, I’m interested in that thing. I had had a bit of hypnotherapy, and it helped a bit. And I thought, You know what, I’m going to go and I’m going to go and do hypnotherapy. So that’s what I did. Not really with the intention of starting a business just, well, it’s something to do you know, something to learn, something new, I’m always interested in learning new things. And it was only like partway through the course. Well, near the end of the course, when they started to say they started talking about clients, they started talking about business, started talking about marketing, Facebook, all these things and only think about in terms of business.

It seemed I was starting a business completely by accident. That’s my first accidental business. I didn’t say it was a first accidental business. So I started this business and I guess it was probably about the autumn of 2016 when I started going networking and things like that. I started to go to these networking events where they would have somebody do a little 20 minute presentation. And a lot of them were self development and there was a lot of messaging around, “You have to have all these big goals and you’ve got to have a plan. You got to have like a 12 week year plan, you got to have a three year massive or a five year plan and you’ve got to stick to these plans.” She was scheduling your day and there was all this stuff about time management about managing tasks.

What I picked up from that, and wrongly held maybe, the business world seems to think this is right was that motivation wise I was supposed to be a straight line. Never fluctuating, never changing, just be motivated all the time supposed to get up every day and just smash through everything, and hustle and if I didn’t do that I was going to be a failure as a business owner.

As a result of that, I get into all these different self development things. So I’m reading books and listen to podcasts, I’m going on endless courses. And then I’m doing all the therapeutic look into the past. What’s wrong with Clare? When did she become broken? Was it as a child and those sorts of things? Counseling more, obviously, that was a hypnotherapist plenty hypnotherapist I could tap into, I was just trying so hard. Oh, Miracle Morning, every day, get up, do this ritual in order to make yourself be okay.

That went on for about three and a half years. Now when I say that to a lot of people to go, Oh, God, I was like, for 20 years or whatever. So actually, I think three and a half years, I was very fortunate. It was only three and a half years I was like that. Then in January 2020 I can only say a miracle happened really. And again, I don’t know miracles, accidents, luck, whatever you want to call it. So a friend of mine, Peter, had just finished his training with Michael Neill. He had just done the Super Coach Academy. And he just put a post on Facebook saying, I just need some people to sort of practice on to finish my qualification off. And I was like, Oh, you can fix me then. Come on, put my hand up. Like, come on. Let me come.

I went to his office. He doesn’t live far from me. I cried through the entire first session.I can’t even remember what he said to me. Only I remember him drawing a stick person. We’d like a lot of squiggles above its head. And I’ve seen Michael Neill and other teachers draw that picture since. I remember that but I don’t remember much else other than I cried and cried and cried. There was so much frustration that I’d done all this stuff. I’ve done everything the blinking gurus have told me to do and I still wasn’t motivated all the time.

That was the starting point. I had some coaching with him. I then started to really listen to Michael Neill’s stuff first of all, I guess. He was my route in. Then lockdown came along. And my in person hypnotherapy business went poof. There it was gone, literally overnight. But actually, that was really fortuitous in the end, because I didn’t really want to do hypnotherapy anymore, anyway.

That opened up quite a lot of space for me to look in this direction. And trained then with Jules and Rudy Kennard. My fiance and I were in the last cohort of people doing pure Three Principles stuff, they’ve moved on to something a bit more multi dimensional, shall we say since then. Everything changed.

Then my business began to be more about that. Nothing looks the same as how it did, particularly other people. They used to be really annoying. There are a lot of synonyms. That’s really good. My main thing was ranting about other people in their behavior and wanting other people to be different. Yeah, that’s gone. And life just looks a lot more easy.

So that’s how I came across it. And since then I’ve stayed in the conversation, is what they say, don’t they? I’ve explored lots of different teachers, done bits and pieces of all sorts of different things. Listen to a lot of podcasts. And at the moment, Amy Johnson and Clare Dimond seem to be my main people that I’m connecting to. I’ve loved it. It’s been amazing, really. And I’m so grateful that those little accidents happened along the way. There’s way more bits of luck or bits of miracles, I guess, to get me to now.

Alexandra: Looking back at your experience in the primary school, what do you see now about why you burned out?Clare: Well, first of all, not because of teaching. The first thing when I say I was a primary school head teacher and I burn out people just Oh yeah, it’s such a hard job. Actually, my working life was the bit that was okay. I always felt good at work. I never really felt stressed out about work or anything related to work, although I had taken on a new headship in the autumn of 2014, and obviously I burned out in March 2015. I think it might have been the straw that broke the camel’s back that it was a new headship.

There’s a lot to see very quickly when you’re in your second headship because in your first headship you don’t know that much. So you can’t really see the problems. Whereas when you go into second headship, and you’ve left your lovely school that you’ve just made, all nice and pretty and wonderful, you go into this new place, and you’re like, ah everything’s wrong. There’s a bit more speed to it. And yet, there’s a lot coming in. But really, it wasn’t really that. I also separated from my husband in the autumn of 2013.

And then just, the only thing I can describe it is, now I look at it, and I know, I was trying to control the world out there in order to make myself feel okay. I was doing a lot of online dating. That’s not a great place to be, if you’re a control freak, let me tell you, because they don’t behave Alexandra and they behave appallingly. So many of them. So that wasn’t good.

I also was going out a lot more, doing a lot of salsa dancing, I was going out partying with my friend. I had a friend who was also a head teacher and also split from her husband. You can just imagine what those nights were like; they involved a lot of wine, and blurry memories. But you know, there was a lot of that there’s a lot of doing doing a lot, and trying to find it out there.

So I was tired all the time. And my mind was very busy with what can I do next to make myself feel better? So it was really all the outside world stuff. That was the problem. And how I was trying to control all of that, to make myself feel okay.

Alexandra: I loved what you said about motivation. And you work with a lot of female entrepreneurs. I had a little bit of an aha moment when you said that; of course, our motivation goes up and down. It ebbs and flows. In the entrepreneurial world, there’s so much information brainwashing about jumping out of bed and achieving your goals and always feeling 150%. And of course, that’s not the way it works.

I’m sure seeing that for you was such a lightbulb moment.Clare: Massive. I think there’s the word acceptance or surrender or something like that comes to mind.

I’m 53. So I don’t have a cycle of my own, over 28 days now, but I have been looking at like, How does my energy change? Because it still does seem to have these kinds of patterns to it and looking a bit around the moon. There was a new moon last week and I just noticed that I was very much hunkering down and I was writing things. I do stuff on Insight Timer, and I didn’t want to record anything. It wasn’t in that energy to record and then at the beginning of this week, I’m ready to record again. I’ve woken up, I’m ready. I’m energized to do that now.

And like last week, if I went to a networking event in person yesterday, if I tried, I couldn’t have done that last week. I just wasn’t in that energetic space. But I think that one of the things especially for female entrepreneurs, is that you have to remember that the world of business has been – and this is nothing against men – but it’s been created by men, for men by men, just because that’s the nature of how it’s been. The world of work was a man’s world up until not even 100 years ago to be fair, you know, it’s not even been 100 years that women have been in the workplace properly.

I look at my fiance and he just is the same every day. He just gets up and he just like yeah, I’m doing this thing and I’m just singing. I’m like that some days and then other days I just want to cry and sit in a coma. And he doesn’t seem to get that. He’ll ask, “What’s wrong?” Nothing’s really wrong. I’m just crying and just feel a bit flat and I’m just not in the mood. I’m this undulating energetic thing.

I’m not a man and I’m sure men fluctuate as well, but Bruce just doesn’t seem to. I speak to a lot of women who say, Oh, no, my partner just gets up. He’s just the same every day. He doesn’t seem to really half this cycle thing going on. So I think there’s there’s something about self compassion, knowing that and also realizing that sometimes in those quiet times is actually when I’m still around, I’m slower. Some really cool ideas come through, because I’m not dashing about doing everything and trying to do everything.

Some of my really cool things that have felt like downloads or channeling or whatever you might want to call it have come in those moments when I have been like, oh, I don’t really want to do anything. I just want to sit about and read a book, or whatever. That’s when that stuff comes through.

Alexandra: Absolutely. In fact, just last week, I had a day where I was wanting to be working, had some stuff that I wanted to do and just couldn’t do it. I spent the afternoon just lying on the couch, staring at the ceiling. Because that felt like the thing that I really wanted to do.

Where I tend to go with that is, oh, no, I’ve lost all my motivation. That’s what starts to happen in my head. I’ll never get it back. I’ll be lying on the couch staring at the ceiling for the rest of my life.

Instead, what happened is when I got up to go and do and make supper, I had two ideas for new programs. So I completely agree about that. The quiet time is often the most fertile time for sure.

Alexandra: In your work, do you find that female entrepreneurs struggle with burnout? And if so, how does that look for them?Clare: I think it’s not uncommon. I think there’s something around how many different things, women, whether they’re entrepreneurs, or they’re in work, are managing, there’s still there’s still, like, we’ve moved full on into the workplace full on into entrepreneurialship. But we’ve not dropped any of the stuff in the house. We’ve kept it all. So we can’t do it all.

I also think it’s where we’re trying to get to the pushing and the forcing, and the keeping going, when really, we should be resting and really tuning out from our bodies completely and utterly. When I was burning out, my body did a little tap on the shoulder and then it gave a little light tap on the cheek, and then it was literally punching me around their head going, when you’re going to listen to me, I’m dying here. And you’re not doing anything about it.

We just don’t listen. So this busyness, we’ve got loads going on, there’s home, there’s business, there’s all the stuff. There’s also this sense that we’re supposed to be energetically on all the time. So we’re not resting, we’re not taking care of ourselves. And eventually that you can’t, so sleep starts to go around. I mean, that for me, it was massive.

My sleep went completely to pot. And then we go treat the sleep as if it’s the sleep that’s the problem. It’s not really the sleep. That’s not the problem at all. It’s the underlying stress and moving towards burnout. And so eventually, it’s running on this level of adrenaline, it’s just not sustainable for the body.

One of the things I often talk about is, are we going slowly enough and quietly enough to hear the body saying? When our eyes start to feel tired and we’ve got a bit of a headache because we’ve been in front of his screen too long. I don’t imagine many people are even listening to that. I can sit here, I’m middle of doing something and I don’t even go to the loo. I don’t really need the loo, I’m just going to finish this little thing that I’m doing.

No, go to the toilet. Start there. Just start there by listening to the very fundamental signal from your body that is saying go to the toilet. Eeven that we’re not doing, we’re not listening. But we have to be able to go slow enough to do that. And we have to be willing for things to change, and I’m not sure with the drive for money and things and just this concept of success, which is made up anyway. Whether we feel that we can afford to stop or slow down that feels like it’s too much of a sacrifice, I think really, so people keep going and keep going until it’s too late.

Alexandra: Right, and especially when we feel like, the only thing that’s going to get us to where we want to go is that drive forward. We don’t understand the value in resting and taking care of ourselves.

I see that so clearly, as you’re speaking the connection between, of course people have a hard time relaxing, because that looks antithetical to what they’re trying to do. Clare: I’m just thinking then that The L Word, the lazy word comes up, doesn’t it? I’ve just been on a call earlier with a group of women and one of the women said that on Sunday, I mean, not even on a normal working day, on Sunday, she actually just laid on the sofa and put Netflix on. And it took her a big leap to do that. Because a big pushing through some discomfort, because it was like, Oh, I shouldn’t be doing this. “I should be out doing something. I should be in the garden. I should be busy all the time.”

She had headache, and then the headache went away. And she felt so much better and so much energized, because she just had rested. Sometimes you watch something on Netflix, it just washes out for you a bit, doesn’t it? And it’s just what you need. She was saying how difficult that was to just lean into that and allow that to just happen. Instead of fighting it and having a story about what else we should be doing.

Alexandra: One of the other things I wanted to ask you about is you mentioned this on your website about how managing our feelings isn’t the answer. Clare: I guess fundamentally, when I was in the thick of all that self-development stuff, that’s what I was trying to do was trying to manage my feelings. I was trying to just all the time be in a different feeling state than the one I was in.

What I see about that now, and it’s that it’s still like developing is that that takes quite a lot of energy. And also, it’s fundamentally impossible to manage your feelings. You can’t do it. So that’s the underlying premises, actually, you can’t do that, it doesn’t really work that way.

But when we are very focused on an emotion that we don’t want to have, then we’re spending a lot of energy thinking about that emotion and trying to fix it, it just makes it worse. It just makes it more unpleasant. And actually, I’m seeing it now as fighting against the present moment. If what is present now is a feeling of anxiety, then, if I sit with that, then I’m really in the present moment, because I’m with this feeling of anxiety.

What I’ve noticed when I do this, I feel like it’s almost like when you pump a balloon up till it’s like really, really full. And then instead of knotting it, you let it go, and it goes whizzing around the room. And so it’s got all this energy and then it just goes up and it just sort of falls to the ground, no energy left.

When you watch these emotions, and you do that non judgmentally, that’s about how long they last. They whiz round and they move around and then they just disappear. I think that’s because you’ve fallen into the present moment, you’ve surrendered, you’ve accepted whatever word you want to use. And it’s just there.

What I see often as well in the female entrepreneurial community is that there’s always work going on to try and feel differently. And it’s taking a lot of time so nothing’s getting done. Like a fraction of the thing if they do because the whole idea is they want to get more done but they’re spending so much time and energy on managing feelings, they’re getting less done.

Whereas actually what happens when we just sit with the feeling and allow it to be there it passes anyway. And then what I find comes very quickly after that is a feeling of lightness, a bit of clarity, often the next step often like, Oh, do you know what, that’s what I need to do next. And then almost like this inbuilt motivation or energy to go do that thing just sort of comes with that energy built in.

Whereas if we’ve spent all that energy, even if we did get rid of the feeling, by the end of all that manipulation, and trying to get rid of it, and whatever we might be doing to get rid of the feeling. By the time we’ve done all of that we’re tired, then we’ve got nothing left to go do the thing that we might have wanted to do.

And the other thing is, as well as that in business, you’re often going to compete against things that feel uncomfortable, like putting yourself out there, let’s just call it that marketing speak. But putting yourself out there is going to sometimes mean that you’re going to butt up against some growing edge of yours. And actually, you could spend hours trying to get rid of this awful feeling so that you can then go do the thing.

But actually, the most potent way to get rid of that is to do the thing. That’s the most powerful thing that just allows that whole limitation to fall away. So instead of going round the houses trying to get rid of the feeling, trying to manage the feeling, just do the thing, like not from a place of hustle. Because those feelings aren’t telling you about the thing anyway. The feeling doesn’t come from that thing.

The feeling is coming from how you’re thinking about the thing. And when you do the thing, that thinking falls away. So when you see it in that light, it just gets easier. Once you know that that feeling isn’t information about the thing you’re about to do, you can then do it. And that’s got to be quicker and more efficient than going round and round, is trying to chase the feeling away before you can do anything.

Alexandra: Absolutely. For our audience, I’m in a class with you at the moment about Insight Timer. And there have been a couple of things that I’ve bumped up against in that exact way, and I noticed myself, I might spend a bit of time backing away from whatever the thing is, and thinking about it a lot and, and worrying about it a bit.

And then eventually when I did it, it’s never as hard as we think it’s going to be. And all the thinking that I had about that just drops away. So now I’m not carrying the weight of all that thinking that I had about whatever the thing is.

Clare: Absolutely.

Alexandra: We touched a little bit on how women have entered the workforce, but they haven’t let go of the things they were already doing. Raising children, taking care of the house and that thing.

What is overwhelm then, as you see it? Is it tied into having too much to do or is it something else?Clare: I don’t think it’s helped by having too much to do. However, I do think there’s one thing about being overwhelmed and that’s thinking you’ve got to do it all now. It’s as simple as that.

If you’ve got a list of things to do, you only think about one of them and you go do that one thing to completion, and you cross it off, and then you go do the next thing, then you may not get it all done. But you will just be very present. And you’ll just be very focused on one thing.

I think tied into that is seeing how much thinking we might have about completing the tasks on a list. I mean, there’s that thing, isn’t it? I’m sure it’s absolutely true for most people, you’ve got a list of 10 things, you do eight of them and you mega focus on the two that you didn’t do.

So there’s noticing if we tend to not be very compassionate to ourselves or beat ourselves up about not doing whatever things we’ve not done. Realizing we’re not superhuman.

Tied into that, is when we’re calm and when we’re present, I think it’s easier to say no. And sometimes we have to say no, or we have to ask for help. I was rubbish at asking for help. I was drowning in my life. And nobody knew. Nobody knew how ill I was getting, because I hid it very, very well. I didn’t ask for help. So there’s all the stuff that is about us needing to keep up some facade of being okay all the time. Because we don’t want to be a burden, and we don’t want to get in the way, or we don’t want to seem to be a problem in some way. But fundamentally overwhelmed is thinking you’ve got to do it all now.

Alexandra: I love that. It’s such a simple definition. And it resonates with me so much. I think of times when I felt overwhelmed and I had so much thinking about whatever was going on. And it really does feel like that pressure. Oh, it all has to happen in the next five minutes. And that was all made up, of course, by me. Such a good point. I love that.

When someone is experiencing that stress, or a different stress, what do you see about dealing with that in a way that’s fresh and new?Clare: The first thing is just that phrase, dealing with it, as if it’s something to do, rather than something to be seen in a different way. Because I mean, I’ve got a workshop stashed away somewhere, it’s available if you want it. It’s called The Truth About Stress. And it just takes people through the difference between pressure and stress.

Absolutely, in this crazy bonkers world that we live in, where everything’s too fast, and we’re wired into [our phones] all the time. And it’s harder to switch off and all these other things are going on, then there’s pressure but that’s not the same as stress. That’s our relationship with the pressure.

Let’s say we’ve got a busy job or a busy business. And yeah, we could literally go into that business, work our socks off all day. And if we can just, like, close the office door at five o’clock, and go chill out with our family, and have a lovely evening, be really focused on that when we’re doing that, then we won’t experience stress. It just won’t work like that.

In this workshop, I talk about the fact that on a Sunday night, loads of people don’t sleep because they’re already in the working week. And they’re already thinking about what’s to come and how much they’ve got to do and everything.

And equally on a Friday afternoon. Everything goes really well, everybody’s really light hearted, and it’s all cool, because actually, already they’re thinking, oh, I’m going to the beach that weekend, or I’m going to do this with my kids. The thinking is already thinking not even the job is like, Oh, it’s just really easy to do exactly the same, the same things that they were on Wednesday afternoon, or Monday morning. But all of a sudden, it all feels a lot lighter, because their mind’s already traveling forward in time.

As I’m saying that I’m just thinking, if you really in the present moment stress can’t survive, it can’t be there. That would almost be like starving of oxygen, it just wouldn’t be able to take hold. And what’s really interesting about that, from my teaching background, is that obviously teaching is seen as a very stressful profession. I think that is because teachers are not very good at being in the present moment. They are when they’re in the classroom. So a lot of teachers will say I love being in the classroom.

But the rest of the time is really stressful. And that is because in the classroom, when you’ve got 30 kids to manage, you can’t not be in the present moment, because they’ll eat you. They will actually eat you if you’re not properly on it. So when you’re in the classroom, even if you’re dealing with quite a difficult group of children, you’re actually very, very present.

Whereas the rest of the time teachers are fast forwarding through their lives all the time. So in primary schools in this country, the day is broken down into little chunks, obviously, the terms and then there’s a holiday and so all the time teachers are counting down counting down, when’s the next holiday, when’s the next holiday? And then when they get into the holiday, like, Oh, I’ve only got three more days and that’s working. And so they’re always like they’re always out of the present moment.

I think that’s a massive factor in how stressed people are in not just in teaching them sure but in other jobs. But if if we are 100% in the present moment, all we notice when we’re not, and therefore fall back into the present moment, I don’t think stress can get a foothold. It’s like it trying to get up a greasy pole, it can’t do that. If we are in the present moment. I think that’s a quote: the present moment is a greasy pole to stress. Profound.

Alexandra: That’s great. I can really see what you’re saying, because I’m thinking back to my corporate life, the brief moments I’ve had in corporate Canada, and sitting in a meeting was always really stressful for me. And it wasn’t because the meeting was stressful. It was because I was thinking of the three other meetings I had to go through that day. And I was thinking about the emails that were piling up in my inbox while I was sitting in the meeting. It’s such a good point.

And teachers too, especially it feels like a calling.

It feels really sad to me when a teacher expresses feelings of burning out, because this is the thing they felt called to do. And yet they can’t manage the stress of it.Clare: Definitely is. I don’t know what it’s like over there. But over here I think it’s like 30% of left within the first three years or something. They graduate and go into teaching. Dropping like flies. It is a shame.

Alexandra: As we start to wind up here a little bit, I just wanted to ask if there’s anything we haven’t touched on today that you’d like to share?

Clare: Nothing that I can think of off the top of my head.

Alexandra: Could you tell us about Insight Timer: what that’s like for you and maybe a little bit about that part of your business?Clare: That’s been just such a wonderful journey. When I first found the platform, I didn’t really engage with it fully. I didn’t really know how useful it could be in my business. But it was this time last year, so may 2023, that I really started to get active on the platform, and it’s just so much fun. I have a lot of fun.

This afternoon, I’ve just been pondering my thoughts on what new courses I might make and what are the content I want to create and that sort of thing. I do find that the creative juices for it really, really flow. I think that’s because I used to create a lot of content for social media.

I was very, very active on LinkedIn. I mean, very, very active, ridiculously. So to be fair. And it never felt like creating a link for insight time. And I think that’s because that you can see your impact. I go on every day, and there’s all these beautiful reviews, and there’s people on my courses saying thank you, this has completely changed my general perspective.

Or on my lives, people saying this is just what I needed to hear today. And that sort of thing. So you know that you’re having an impact on the thing in our work. You know, actually, we do want to earn a living, it’s lovely that you get paid on Insight Timer as well. But it’s just seeing that impact, just getting that feedback to know that what I’m saying is changing people’s lives. And it’s giving people a nicer, happier, more peaceful experience of life.

That is, is huge, really, and you don’t get that from posting on social media, you might get the occasional nice comment, but everybody’s too busy on there. Whereas on Insight Timer, people are really going to find help. So they really are appreciative when they find something that is helpful to them.

Alexandra: So true, and it’s such a different atmosphere than your typical social media platform. Not that it is social media, but just the fact that for someone like you or myself, who feels called to teach and share and try to help people, it’s such a better fit than just shouting into the void on Instagram, or whatever it is.

Clare: Spitting in the wind. I often say nothing’s seems to be landing energetically, it feels more aligned as well you know that, that we are being rewarded financially for the content that we’re sharing and the help that we’re giving people. That feels quite significant as well.

Because I mean, on social media, there’s only one group of people benefiting financially. They own the platform. That’s right. It’s very aligned.

Alexandra: Lovely. That’s great. Well, thank you so much, Clare, for being with me here today.

Can you tell our listeners a little bit about where they can find out more about you and your work?Clare: Yes, so I have a website called claredownham.com. And I do have a nice little gift that people might want to check out. It’s called the Letter to the Inner Critic.

It was one of those things that came to me and one of those quieter periods that I just allowed to happen. It’s quite fun, but it’s also quite poignant in terms of my own changing relationship with that voice in my head, that seems to twitter away nonsense at me. I think it’s really helpful to people.

So it’s claredownham.com/letter. That’s my website. And people can download that letter there and hopefully enjoy reading it.

Alexandra: I will put links in the show notes so people can find that at unbrokenpodcast.com. Well, thank you so much, Clare. I really appreciate you being here with me today.

Clare: Thank you. It’s been an absolute pleasure.

Alexandra: Bye bye.

Featured image photo by Jackie Tsang on Unsplash

The post Stress Relief for Female Entrepreneurs with Clare Downham appeared first on Alexandra Amor Books & Courses.

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Old-paradigm psychology can try to convince us that unwanted habits are caused by a need to feel loved or safe or cared for. It can feel like we’re using food, or other substances, to soothe or comfort ourselves. In this podcast episode we bust this myth and look toward the true origin of unwanted habits.

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Are you interested in connecting with others who are exploring this understanding? Would you like some coaching and ongoing support with an eye toward resolving an unwanted habit? Click the image below to learn about the Unbroken Community and join the waitlist.

Show Notes* The five reasons an unwanted habit has nothing to do with replacing love * Does it matter where our painful thoughts about food originate? * On the fluidity of thought and how it can change, morph and disappear * How the feeling connected to a thought is going to tell us if it’s the truth or a lie * How it’s not on us to change, manage or control our thoughts * How we are not in control of the timeline of when things change

Transcript of episodeHello Explorers and welcome to episode 62 of Unbroken. I’m Alexandra Amor. I’m here today to talk about the really common myth that when we have an unwanted habit where we’re using that habit to replace love that we might feel that we are missing.

So in other words, as it said on the title card for this episode, is food really love? Or is that a myth? I’m going to tell you why I think it’s a myth.Before I say that, I should say that I think it makes sense that we came to that conclusion. And I know for me, I spent years and years trying to love myself in a way that would cause my unwanted overeating habit to disappear. And none of what I tried worked. I tried things like journaling, affirmations, radical self-compassion. What else was in that arena of loving ourselves? Cognitive behavioral therapy. I took a course I’ve talked about this before. And it was all about creating a loving feeling within ourselves. In order that our overeating habit would drop away. And none of that worked.

I’m going to talk about that today and about what I see now, when we have the thought that we’re using a substance like food to try to replace love within ourselves.

Before we get into that, I want to quickly have a reminder here, that if you haven’t done so already, you can sign up for the waitlist for the Unbroken community. The address for that is AlexandraAmor.com/community. And there’s lots of information there on that page.

The community will be launching later this year in 2024. And we will be having some live coaching in the community, we’ll have an online group, we’ll have a couple calls a month live with me. And as I say, all the details are there on that page, AlexandraAmor.com/community.

Okay, so let’s get into this subject of whether or not food is love.

Are we are using something like food and overeating to replace love that we believe is missing within us?The reason I’m talking about this today is that I had another coaching session with Tania Elfersy recently, and you may have listened to the episode, number 53, where Tania coached me. And so we’ve gotten together another couple of times since then.

Today, we had a conversation about this thought and feeling that I have when I’m putting food on my plate, specifically at supper time. And the thought that I have is, there’s not enough. We talked about that, and what that meant, what that thought means for me. It felt as I explained to Tania, it felt like it was saying to me that I wasn’t loved enough, that that feeling of there’s never enough I’m sort of transferring it to food, but the food represents love that might be absent in my life or had been in the past.

We talked about where that thought might have originated. And I can see that there was a time in my life when that thought probably came into being and how we innocently can assume or conclude that because of the circumstances that we’ve experienced in the past, and that we now have an unwanted habit like overeating that we are substituting one thing for another. That’s where the myth comes in that we are using food as a substitute for love.

I want to share the five things that Tania and I talked about, and explore this a little bit more and hopefully help you see what Tania has helped me to see. And what I’ve seen, during my exploration of the, the understanding that we’re exploring here are the three principles.

The first thing that I want to share is that connected to what I’ve just explained about this idea that we’re substituting food and love is that where that thought and feeling originated doesn’t really matter. What really matters in this exploration is that we see it as thought. So that’s what seems to really create change, at least, it has done in my experience. And what I mean by that is, in the old paradigm of psychology, the outside in paradigm, if I had been coaching with Tania today, in that old paradigm, what we would have done is gone back to potentially where that thought originated. And then we would have dived into the feelings around when that thought originated, and the circumstances and the places perhaps where I felt an absence of love.

And we would have dug up a lot of the painful emotions around that, and all that kind of thing. And Sydney Banks often talked about how digging into the past to him didn’t make a lot of sense. And it was for that exact reason that digging into the past brings up all these feelings within us.

Now having said that, what I’m not implying is that we need to just bypass our past experience at all. That’s not the intention here. But what I do want to encourage you to see or to try to see is that when we’re having a thought about overeating or about a certain food, I really want you to notice that it is a thought. It’s not something written in stone, it’s not a pronouncement that’s come from someone that you can trust and believe that it’s the absolute truth.

We’re going to talk about the truth; where you can see that what that thought is bringing is not truth. I’ll talk about how you can tell that a thought like that isn’t true, that’s coming up in one of the points I want to make later.

Initially, I invite you to see when you have a feeling or a thought that’s similar to the one that I’ve described, the first step really would be to see it simply as a thought.

It’s creating feelings within you that thought; we can always tell what we’re thinking by the feelings that we’re having. And for me, this situation happens at the same time, this thought and feeling so the thought is there’s not enough food on my plate. And the feeling is one of a little bit of fear, a little bit of desperation, a little bit of panic, that kind of thing. Very light. It’s not huge, but it’s definitely there.

I invite you to notice in a situation like that, that what you’re experiencing is thought. The second thing I want to talk about is an experience from the past. And what I really was able to see today in my conversation with Tania. If you’ve read one of my books, the one called It’s Not About The Food, in that book, I talk about the soda habit that I had, that I’d had for like 30 years, and how when I began to explore this understanding, that habit fell away. And what I saw today was that in the past, before that habit fell away, I felt a very similar feeling about that soda that I would have every day at lunchtime.

That feeling was I need this thing, it’s a treat for me, I’m giving myself a lot of care and love by having this treat every day at lunchtime. And before I started exploring the principles, anytime I tried to let go of that habit, those feelings would rear their heads and become really tricky for me to navigate. And I was not able to do it until I came to this understanding. I quit that habit probably hundreds of times in those 30 years. But I always picked it up again, because those strong feelings of that need for love that I had projected onto the can of soda would overtake me, and I would fall back into the habit.

What I saw today, which was really fascinating was that, since that habit has dropped away, I don’t feel any less loved.In other words, the love that I feel in my life, from family, from friends from the universe, from myself, hasn’t changed at all. It hasn’t diminished at all, because I don’t have that soda habit any longer. And when I realized that as I was having the conversation with Tania, what I saw was that the nature of that thought was not true. Therefore it wasn’t telling me any bit of truth.

Now, it felt true. In the moment, for those all those years that I had that habit, absolutely, it felt true. It felt like if I don’t have this thing, I won’t feel as nurtured, I won’t feel like I’m having a treat, I will feel bereft, I will feel a sense of loss. And I would feel deprived those kinds of feelings. And so like I say, what I saw today was that that wasn’t true, because that didn’t happen when the habit fell away. I feel just as loved now as I did when I was experiencing that habit.

That also points to the idea that that habit was created by thought. And it wasn’t a truth at all. It felt like a truth, but it wasn’t. So that was the second thing that I want to share.

One other thing as well about that, that Tania pointed out was, what this also points to is the fluid nature of our thinking of thought, and our attachment to things and how fluid that can be as well. When we think of our thinking as being much more solid and real, and therefore dangerous in that way, of course it can be really hard to shift these habits that we have, these unwanted habits because the thinking that surrounds them feels so real. And what this example pointed out to both Tania and I, this soda habit example, was just how fluid thought really is.

It was attached to this can of soda that I had every day. And then it was so fluid though that it was able to to shift and move and change and the connection that I had between those two things, between soda and love, which felt really, they felt really sticky and glued together. What I see now is that as the habit fell away that they weren’t stuck. They felt like they were stuck together in me.

The truth is, they weren’t an equation, like one plus one equals two. Soda plus lunchtime equals love. That seemed like a real equation to me in the past. And now I see that it’s not that things are much more fluid than that. I’m not sure what other word to use.

The third thing I want to talk about when we talk about the myth of unwanted habits and food being love is that – and I touched on this a little earlier – the feeling that happens when we have a thought about food, the feeling that comes up within us is what is going to point out to us that thought is a lie.

Here’s what I mean by that. When I have the feeling and the thought, when I’m putting food on a plate, that there’s never enough, there’s not enough, that comes with, as I said earlier, feelings of fear, and panic. And it’s a real clench up feeling.

Those feelings are telling me that that thought is not the truth. The truth always feels peaceful. The truth is only ever going to feel like a good feeling, like a beautiful feeling. So when I’m having the thought of putting too much food on my plate, and how that’s necessary because there’s never enough, and I feel the feelings associated with that thought that information is so valuable about the fact that that thought is a lie.

It’s not the truth, because it doesn’t feel peaceful, it doesn’t feel good, it doesn’t make my shoulders drop. It doesn’t make me feel relaxed. I feel like I said earlier, fearful, panicked, worried, a real clenchy concern about that. So that’s another thing to look out for, and observe. There’s nothing to be done when you feel that feeling. But noticing it is really important and noticing the difference between a feeling that brings you peace, and a good feeling, and a feeling and a thought that doesn’t bring those things, a thought that makes you clench up and feel fearful.

That’s your barometer, that’s the compass, pointing to whether something is the truth or not. And then the fourth thing that I really want to point out in this exploration, and something that Tania I really specifically talked about this morning for quite a while, is that it’s not up to us to manage our thoughts.

She brought this up, probably just via her experience and wisdom around working with people on these things. And as human beings, when we begin to see the nature of our thinking, probably the next that question out of my mouth or question that someone might have is okay, I see that this thought isn’t true, I see that the feelings that I have with it are pointing away from the truth. They’re pointing toward a lie. So what do I do about that thought? How do I manage that thought? How do I make that thought go away? How do I change that thought, which is something that as people with long term unwanted habits, we’re probably very familiar with that feeling, wanting to change what’s going on.

Tania’s point was that there’s no need to do any of that.

This thought that we’re having, that we’re struggling with, that we’re equating food with love is going to fall away because we see its nature. So the only thing we really need to do is be open to the observation of what’s going on. And that’s a tricky thing to do. And it’s a tricky thing to understand, because our human minds are designed to solve problems.

The mind anticipates. It says, “Okay, I get it, this thought is pointing toward a lie. So now what can I do about that?” That’s natural and innocent. There’s nothing wrong if that happens. I just wanted to bring this up as an important point related to this subject. It can be a little bit challenging to get our heads around this, that we see this thing that maybe we would label as a problem and then you’re asking me not to do anything about it. That seems a little weird.

Where we’re really wanting to put our attention, rather than digging in, and getting concerned about that thought and its presence in our lives, and getting bogged down in that problem solving, what we’re wanting to do is look in a different direction. We’re looking toward the nature of thought itself; that it is fluid, that it will change on its own, there’s nothing we need to do to make that happen.

Our thoughts are changeable, they are using that old metaphor, they are like the weather. They are flowing through the space that we hold for them. We are the sky. And the thoughts are the weather. Trying to control them and change them is like trying to control the sky trying to control the weather in the sky. That’s impossible. What creates change more easily than digging into trying to get rid of the thoughts we don’t like, push them away, manage them, control them, replace them with different kinds of thoughts.

What works better than that, in my experience, is just understanding their nature that they move, and change and flow. And that that is how they are. They are energy flowing. Thought is energy flowing through us. And we can no more control that than we can control the weather. So that’s point number four.

And finally, point number five. Tania brought up the timeline and how…

…we can get really concerned and knotted up at times about how things aren’t changing in a time frame that we would like to see them change.I do experience that myself, especially because I’m here in public talking about these things. And there is part of me that wishes that some of these habits would fall away faster than they have. But going back to what I said in the previous point, worrying about the timeline of how these things shift is like trying to control the weather. It is like shouting at the sea, was the example that Tania gave, being angry at the ocean.

Thought is a force of nature that we’re dealing with. And it’s big, it’s huge. And it’s really not on us to control it. It’s going back, as I say to the previous point, it would be like trying to control the weather. And putting energy and effort into doing that really is just a waste of effort. Honestly, it’s just a waste of energy.

Imagine how frustrated you would be if you thought it was your responsibility to change the weather. If you had given that task to yourself, and it’s raining, let’s say, and you have decided that well, it’s my responsibility to change that rain to make it go away, to turn it into sunshine. Imagine how frustrated you would be.

So this final point is about a little bit of allowing, a little bit of surrendering to what’s happening. And again, being the observer in what’s happening and noticing the fluid nature of thought, of your thinking, but not necessarily being tangled up in trying to change that.

What happens is that the more we see the true nature of thought, in all these points that I’ve talked about today, then what happens is that thinking can change on its own. I’ve experienced that during these years that I’ve been exploring this understanding and so many of my unwanted habits have fallen In a way, almost I would say, almost all of them. I feel like I’m down to the last, I don’t know, 4 or 5%. And that happens, not because I put a lot of effort into controlling my thinking, replacing my thoughts with other thoughts, saying lots of affirmations or trying to use willpower to change my habits.

The change has come about because I’ve been exploring the nature of thought, and the nature of these Three Principles of mind, consciousness, and thought. The more we look in that direction, what I’ve seen is the more change can occur. So I hope that’s been helpful for you today.

If you have any questions, please always let me know if there’s anything I haven’t explained clearly. I would love to hear about it so that I can take another run at it. You can do that at AlexandraAmor.com/questions. That’s it for today. I hope you are doing well and taking good care. And I will talk to you again next week. Bye.

Featured image photo by Jamez Picard on Unsplash

The post Exploding The Myth That We’re Using Food To Replace Love appeared first on Alexandra Amor Books & Courses.

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As a long-time coach, and before that an HR professional, Dominic Scaffidi points his clients back toward an awareness of their innate wisdom and ability to thrive effortlessly. He reminds us that we are always more than our human minds can grasp.

As a Master Certified Coach (MCC) credentialed with the International Coaching Federation (ICF) Dominic works with leaders, teams, entrepreneurs and individuals to achieve professional and personal aspirations. He points clients to a realization of who they really are as they focus on creating what they most desire in life.

Dominic is a Registered 3 Principles Practitioner who is grounded in the teaching of Sydney Banks.

You can find Dominic at DominicScaffidi.com and on Facebook.

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Show Notes

• On the overlap between the Law of Attraction and the Three Principles
• Being willing to sit in paradox and wait for clarity
• On the innate intelligence that flows through every living thing
• Our human ability to resist that intelligence with our thinking
• Manifesting: Allowing ourselves to perceive what already exists
• Following a good feeling toward what wants to be
• Your wisdom is always in a beautiful feeling
• How our feelings are always indicating what we’re thinking

Resources Mentioned in this Episode

• Michael Neill’s TedX Talk Why aren’t we awesomer?

Transcript of Interview with Dominic ScaffidiAlexandra: Dominick Scaffidi, welcome to Unbroken.

Dominic: Thank you, thanks for the invitation. I’m really looking forward to our conversation.

Alexandra: Me too. I’ve never spoken to you one on one. So this will be fun.

Tell us a little bit about your background and how you got interested in the Three Principles.Dominic: I’ve been self-employed as a coach, executive coach, mostly. I deal with leaders and organizations like that. And I’ve been self-employed for about 15 years. Prior to that, tt was a corporate career that I had in very large organizations. The last corporate role that I held was a VP of HR position. And so that’s kind of a bit of that.

My career has continually moved to more and more reflection of what I’m interested in, my passion. So that kind of relates to the Three Principles, in that my purpose in life, I say, is to awaken greatness. Maybe you could say it as to reveal greatness, to reveal what’s within us. And so that’s a link to what appealed to me about the Three Principles.

Maybe seven or eight years ago, I came across the Principles and the teachings of Sydney banks, and they immediately resonated as this is true, this is pure truth. What he was pointing to, it was just obvious, it was obvious that this is just true. And so I became really interested in delving into that into that understanding, which is a deeper understanding of who I really am, my true nature and the nature of reality.

And of course, in my coaching, when I’m working with people it’s really about helping us to look more deeply into who we really are, our true nature and the nature of reality. The more we come to see and understand that, the more I’m going to say, all problems disappear. I mean, that’s just the way it is.

Alexandra: Oh, I love that. And so a follow up question, then.

Do you remember how you came across the Three Principles? Dominic: I’m a student of many teachings. And one teaching in particular are the teachings of Abraham Hicks. I was follower for many years. And that teaching focuses very similarly on we are consciousness and energy, like so it’s very similar.

I like to say that from that teaching, and teachers, the Law of Attraction, I say that I attracted the Three Principles. And so this and why I attracted them was because it was necessary to my misunderstanding of the teachings of Abraham Hicks. It had been incredibly useful for me. Much of my understanding had contributed enormously to my own thriving professionally, to my business.

I built my business following a corporate career in a way that I would say is effortless. I’ve never participated in business development and trying to get business. Because around the beginning of my self employment, I had come across Abraham Hicks. And I realized, wow, this is, I mean, it would be crazy if it worked. But if you could simply be in that state that is resonant with what you want, what you want, must come to you. And that just didn’t sound very corporate or real. But it works.

It actually works. It’s actually what happens, because it’s an accurate description of how everything we experience comes to us. So it was very impactful. And then there came some point where I needed to go further than this, to see it more deeply. And there were many misunderstandings I had of what was being taught. And the thing about the Three Principles, you’ll agree is it is so rigorous. It is so rigorous.

Even simple things like, well, you don’t need any practices. It’s so rigorous, right? It’s like, well, there’s nothing to do. It’s all about an understanding. And that part I didn’t understand or hear as clearly with Abraham Hicks. Although after I come across the principles, I would go back and say, Oh, my God, they were saying the same thing, that they’ve been saying the same thing. I couldn’t hear it, I was interpreted in my own way.

Following the Principles, it sort of cleared up, where I was a bit off around all this. And it just took it much deeper. So I say I attracted it. And the way I attracted it is I think I was on YouTube, I was listening to some Abraham Hicks stuff. And then what pops up is Michael Neill, and his TED talk, Why Aren’t We Awesome?

I’m like, Who is this guy? What is this? And then I just became intrigued on what’s he talking about. I’ve never heard of Sydney Banks. And that, of course, is the rabbit hole. Once you get a bit of a taste of that, it’s clearly it’s like, wow, this is true. This is powerful. Yeah.

Alexandra: A couple of things I want to ask then is:

Are there any places where you see that the Law of Attraction and the Principles don’t agree? Have you ever encountered that?Dominic: They disagree or are in conflict in my misunderstanding of one or the other teacher, not one or the other teaching. I misunderstand what Syd was saying, I will see a conflict with Abraham Hicks. And anywhere I misunderstand what Abraham Hicks is saying, is conflicting with my understanding of Sydney Banks, just as it does with teachings of non duality, just as it does with any other teaching.

All conflict is not inherent in what the teaching is pointing to. Every conflict reveals my own misunderstanding of one teaching or the other. So where you see a conflict, it’s a beautiful thing and look in the mirror and see what it is that you misunderstand these teachings, what they point to, are not to what is right or wrong about anything, because what they teach is beyond what is right or wrong is to the essence of what is expressed. They are expressed in words and words are interpreted, and where you interpret incorrectly, then you will arise in conflict. And then you will see wow, that one is wrong. Well, it is wrong according to your misunderstanding. Absolutely. It is. So you might want to clear that up.

Alexandra: When that happens, what do you do or what have you done?Dominic: What I’ve learned to do, because it was interesting, because when I came across the Principles, I wanted to talk about what I saw was the same. I wanted to talk about different ways that and quite frankly, in Three Principles communities it was more of a reaction of, oh, no, you don’t need all that. Well, I’m not looking for what I need, I’m looking to understand something. But you don’t need that, this is all you need. But I don’t need any of it. What each of them will do is deepen my understanding. All teachings are simply a story, right?

What’s valuable about them is what’s actually true that the essence from which they come. So most people were because eventually I came across lots of people in the Three Principles communities, who had been following Abraham Hicks or followed other teachings. And in almost every case, every one of them had said, Oh, I used to follow them until I discovered this. This is right, that’s wrong. I noticed this as a pattern with most people within Three P. “Oh, I used to do NLP. Then I realized that was all wrong. And now I do this. I used to follow this other thing. And now I follow this.”

I’m like, wait a minute. So you come across this thing and you take a vote and you say this one is better, and that one’s obviously wrong and I toss it aside and I now go forward with this. I almost went that way. And I almost did because I’m kinda like wait a minute, but this one so obviously true. And I’m not sure why. But somewhere in the middle of it, I’m like, but I keep going back to listen here. I keep going. What’s that about? Because why would you go back and listen, if it doesn’t resonate as true?

I keep going back to listen, and the more I listened, the more I’m like, Yeah, this is true. And then I noticed something curious. I noticed. Wow. In fact, this is saying the same thing as what Syd is saying. I never heard that in this teaching before. I always thought this was saying this other thing, right?

What I discovered out of this is that if you can sit in a paradox, or a bit of a dilemma of this seems contradictory to me. Oh, well, I guess I’m missing something. And just leave it alone. Right. Over time, what happened is I’d suddenly go, Oh, my God, I think I know what they’re saying.

And all of a sudden, something would pop up and you’d go, oh, that’s what this means. And so you would see something deeper. But if you’re there, and you kind of go, oh, well, that’s obviously wrong and this is right. You walk away with more reinforcement of your own thinking, and no insight. So somehow, by luck, I ended up more doing that, than I went the other way in terms of you know, who’s right, who’s wrong?

Alexandra: I love that because for me and I was in your Living Miraculously course earlier this year. Folding the two together is such an interesting way to explore these things, these truths about us. And it did bring more questions to mind. But as you add more opportunity for exploration, as well as what I enjoy about it, for sure that confluence.

I want to circle back to when you talked about starting your self-employment journey. In a recent newsletter, you had this quote, “Thriving does not depend on action and effort. It relies on allowing.”

It sounds like you were pointing toward that when you mentioned earlier about starting your business. Can you tell us a little bit more about that, please?Dominic: There is no plant, no tree, no animal, no human being that grows, comes alive, blossoms or thrives by their effort. Their energy is not required. So there’s something about that. And if you quiet down and notice, you’re not growing yourself, no child is growing themselves. To look at a plant doesn’t clock in work all day, and then clock out and rest for a while, using its own effort to try to keep getting bigger, taller, bring fruit out, flowers, whatever.

So the truth is that your thriving is effortless. It’s effortless. It’s by grace. There’s a difference though between a human being and an animal and a plant. An animal is only allowing mostly allowing. A plant is certainly completely allowing, but an animal is pretty much allowing and what happens is just like us that consciousness is an expression of all that is, a unique expression of all that is expressing blossoming into this expression, unique expression of itself.

The thing with that is this consciousness which is an infinite intelligence, all knowing basically expresses through any form, expressing more of itself uniquely than the animal. There’s no resistance. Take an animal like a bird. And what a bird will do is as the weather changes, it will fly south. And the thing is it flies with no map with no one teaching it. No Google to learn, this is what you’re supposed to do. It’s an nudging, that moves it.

And not one of these birds turns around and says, Why the hell should I fly south, when you look at these bears that just sleep and Hibernate all year like that, and I’m expected to go 1000s of miles. And not one of them says that. There’s no resistance to it. They simply allow this intelligence, which is only for their own wellbeing, only for their thriving to move them. And anything else, like you look like, they’ll be building a nest, they’ll come back, then they’ll build a nest, and again, not with schools that teach them how to do this, just an infinite intelligence, that is knowing, knowing of what’s needed and how it is. And somehow they find what they need.

It’s different in different environments. But none of that matters, because they’re guided. Now, what we call that with animals is they’re following an instinct. It’s an instinct, that instinct is wisdom, that instinct is intelligence. And it’s an intelligence that brings their well being a shortness and thriving, human beings have the same thing. We’re just a bit of a different imagined creature. And us as an imagined creature, I’m not being religious here, just from a more spiritual perspective is, we are made in the image, imagination, we are an image a reflection of the Creator. And I’m going to say is we are a truer reflection of the Creator. And a truer reflection is we are made as creators.

Now that’s a bit of a difference. Because although a bird or you take a beaver, who builds a dam or something, and like that a bird building a nest, see, the thing with them is they’ve been building the same nest 1000s of years, the same damn 1000s of years. But you and I live in homes that look nothing like a home that we would have built 1000s of years ago, looks nothing like it. And what that is, is we were given a different gift of freedom of thought.

We have freedom of thought, we are free thinkers. And the minute you bring that about, you bring about enormous possibility. And that enormous possibility is for the possibility of greater expansion and creation. You literally can bring what never was before, made in the image of the creator, and a further expression, and we are as creators. And so that beautiful possibility is our greatest trouble. Freedom of thought, I can think anything, right? Including, I’m able to think against myself.

Unlike a bird or an animal, I can literally resist that guidance, intuition and wisdom that comes. I don’t need to listen to that. That’s not the boss of me. I make my own decisions. And I am free to move as I wish, including against myself. That is pure freedom. You are so free you can choose bondage. That’s what freedom is complete pure freedom. There is nothing off limits to us. We can be or do or have anything. We are limited by our own thinking.

Alexandra: What a great explanation. Thank you. I really appreciate that. So speaking of being or doing or having anything, let’s segue into you recently made a new purchase of a home.

I’d love to know your favorite lessons from that experience. And maybe tell the audience a little bit of the background, as much as you are willing to share.Dominic: This whole thing was one of the greatest lessons. We can be all theoretical about you can be or do or have anything, you can create what you want and blah, blah, blah, until the reality hits.

We’ve been in a home for 28 years, we’d love it. And eventually, it came a point where you say, are we living here forever? Or do we buy something else? Are we gonna live somewhere else? But for many, many years, we had all kinds of like, you know, I was in a home office. And if you look out the window, there’s a brick wall. I’d always dreamed that it would be so nice to look out and then there’ll be nature. And just a view and light and all of that kind of stuff.

So anyway, it’s all dreams for a while. And, but then there came a point where my, it was really my wife said, Are we just going to just talk about this all the time? Or is that something we’re interested in? So that kind of kicked off something. And by the Law of Attraction, we move to a more open and allowing state.

There are many, many reasons why well, no, not now. And that takes a while. And it’s hard to find something and all the thinking that it poses, because, by the way, to manifest anything. And just to be clear, what is manifestation? You’re not manifesting anything, you are allowing yourself to perceive what already exists. So when you say that you manifest something, a more accurate description is you’re not manifesting something out of thin air. All that is already is. So what you’re doing is, by your own focus, that you experience anything. So all possibilities are available, they’re there.

When you manifest something, you’re simply tuning or focusing toward what you want, or what the desire is. You’re not bringing something in out of thin air, you are allowing the energy in the direction of the desire to form into the desire not would be manifestation. It’s nothing you’re doing. It’s you’re allowing that instead of right, it kind of look at not by will or determination. I could only notice that my mind was wanting or desiring something. Something that felt better than this. Now, some people would say to you, you shouldn’t go in that direction. You should just be content where you are. But I think I started this by saying we loved our home of 28 years beautiful home, raised a family and it loved everything about it. That was a dream home for us. We were so lucky to have had the home we were in very content in the home and from a place of contentment, it is a very allowing state.

You can’t allow expansion from a place of dissatisfaction or discontentment. You are in a resistance state. You are pushing against what’s wrong with the damn place that I can’t stand living here anymore. And if anything were to come out of that state, it would be another place you would hate because it would just match. So when you’re somewhere and the desire coming through, then really, when I look back what I was doing was resisting, but we’re really good here and things are all okay. And yeah, but that’s gonna take a while. It’s not easy to find what we’re looking for.

Every statement you make or every thought just distancing between your desire and its experience.Abraham Hicks says when you desire something, and you expect it, is when you want something in you expected it is. So it’s instant. This is kind of how God, you look at the Creator we’re made in the image of the creator. This is how God creates, let there be light. And light is in the instant it is thought. So it’s manifested in the instant it is thought.

Sydney Banks points to divine thought. I used to think divine thought was reserved, like us, like a big deal. That’s divine thought, right. Until I thought about it a little more divine thought it is pure thought when it occurred to me was divine thought is unopposed thought. God thinks a thought and doesn’t oppose it in the next thought. God doesn’t oppose its own thinking.

We’re a little different. I would love that. But that’s going to take a while to have. The very next thought becomes an opposition to it. This whole thing was like that, and kind of stretched out.

Anyway, at some point. And it was months ago, we started the search, there was a bit of the disappointment in everything we were seeing. And so we were feeling terrible. At some point, my wife and I agreed, and we said, you know, look, let’s just promise each other that we will not move unless we feel the way we felt when we bought this house. So when we know what that feeling is, and if we feel that feeling. Just after that agreement, which followed a huge disappointment of you know, searching and kind of thinking, I think this is a mistake, what are we doing? We’re gonna end up paying, right? So just after that, suddenly, this house shows up.

We were in Hawaii, actually. And it was beautiful and suddenly we get this agent send us a video and they say, You know what? We know this is over budget, but it has so much of what you’re asking for. My wife and I were waiting to check in to the hotel, and we’re by the pool and we watched this video. And we were silent. We watched this video.

We just knew this is our house. And we’re like wow, I can’t believe that exists right now. I can’t believe it exists where it is, which is just a few kilometers from where we’re living now. And we have family here and stuff. And we really wanted to sort of stick around. But there was so much to it. That was a challenge to my beliefs including the money. This was not the plan. The plan was different. It was downsizing. It was like it was a whole other plan. This is not what I was thinking. This is not what was comfortable. This is not what was predictable.

But here’s the conflict I ran into, I was like I cannot deny the feeling. I mean, how do you deny the feeling? So anyway, we were there and we were like, are common to each other was like, gosh, I hope we get a chance to see it. Because we might not by the time we get back, it’s gonna be like 10 days or whatever the place could sell. Hope we get a chance to see it.

We write the agents and we say we would like to see it. And so we come back and within a day we’d like to get a sneak peek. I want to see it. The minute we walk onto the property it was like that. We’re not even inside the house, but it was like, oh my god, this is our place. This is our property, this is our home. And then all the problems, the beliefs, almost, wow, how is that supposed to work?

How would you do this? The stresses of all that stuff come crashing in. In that moment, I was just I don’t know, there was a lot that I learned, like, a lot that I questioned, I thought, how could it be that this feeling is so clear and true? And yet, it’s not? How can it possibly be like, how could you have this feeling? And yet it’s not the right place? It’s out of reach? It’s not correct. I was a bit disappointed.

Also, from a law of attraction perspective, to get a perfect match, except you made a mistake on part of it. Like, what kind of law is this? How could this be? You can’t bring something and have it be a match? And then have it be off like that?

So then I thought, Well, maybe it’s not the Law of Attraction that’s off. It could be something else is off here. And that’s when I kind of look more to me. And so in that journey, I started to see it was obvious. Yeah, I’m off in so many ways. And all of them are my own thinking. And the question is, do I want to insist on my thinking? Do I want to insist on what I know, do I want to insist on how it’s supposed to be, how things are, and not be open to new thinking and new seeing? And all of that was interesting to me.

Now, I love that I understood from my understanding of Three P because this was the most important thing from what Sydney Banks said, it was clear to me. And my wife was very clear to me that life is going to be great with or without this house. I’m not making that up? I know for sure. So I see this home. And it’s a beautiful match. And honestly, and frankly, whether or not we ever live in it, life is going to be great. Because life is not dependent on any of this.

So that part was a relief. That is right. So now there was zero attachment. It’s not needed for anything. I don’t need this in order to live a great life. That’s not it. But now though, I was curious, how can you be a match to that? How can you be a match to that?

Because what this is about is the feeling is so beautiful. And I knew this too, from Syd’s teaching, it says your wisdom is in a beautiful feeling. Well, I got one, fine, got one right here. So your wisdom is in a beautiful feeling. So I thought this feeling will guide. This feeling will guide all the way there. If I can be more committed to the feeling than I am to that damn house.

If I could just be committed to the feeling more than I am to that house, that’s the key.Because that feeling will lead. Here’s the deal, whether it’s this house or another house, if it’s this feeling, this is the feeling that will manifest. I don’t know if I got it right, as far as this had to be the house. Or maybe this house was just trying to show me what this feeling is. So who cares. The point is, if it’s this feeling, I know I’m going to be it’s going to be an expression of something beautiful. So that was then the journey.

The journey was how do you keep being guided by the feeling? It was interesting because the way I composed myself, the words, the actions, the way I’m going to say I lead. It was a journey to allow that feeling. That thought to become a thing. And so what I mean by that are things like, you know, we indicate to our agents, we’re very interested the whole bit. And then, this conversation going, but we’ll go at them like this, and then we’ll show the market value is not whatever. And I could feel like, hang on a second. We’re not doing that.

This house is beautiful. I was saying crazy things like, honestly, who is saying crazy things like they built this house and renovated this house for us. They are not our enemy. They are not an opponent here. I was so clear. This was all put together for me. So weird to even say it. But it was just the truth.

Because some changes that were made and how it was done, not everything. I mean, there’s things you gotta fix. But some things you go, Oh, my gosh, like, Who would do this in this way? It must have been done for me. I was very sensitive to No, we don’t talk about them like that. And, and I don’t want to be stealing the house. You know, how can I get it? That’s not a beautiful feeling.

I’ll tell you what inspired me more. I want to be one who could just pay for that house. I want to be one who could overpay for that house. Now, that’s interesting to me. No idea what it looks like. But I would like that. So then, the feeling was better one way than another way? How do I give that more airtime? And be open to what does that mean? To sit in that feeling? And that would lead to thriving and expansion.

So this is a bit of how this journey went. And there was all kinds of stuff in between and drama and all kinds of interesting things. Because, we would be bored if we just thought of something and had it, so it was instead of learning and my greatest learning around, practically speaking, what does all this? What do all these teachings actually mean?

Alexandra: That’s amazing. I’m sure you can unpack that for weeks. Dominic: There’s a lot in it.

Alexandra: I want our listeners to really hear what you’re saying about following the beautiful feeling. And what I really heard was that was your guide post. That was the thing that you made sure to check in with regularly and make sure that it was leading you down the right path.

Dominic: Yes. The feeling is indicating what you’re thinking. So the feeling is indicating the degree of wisdom in your thinking or nonsense in your thinking. That’s what the feeling is indicating. What you’re feeling is either in harmony with something I’ll say in a minute, or disharmony with it. That’s what you’re feeling.

What the feeling is, is your extent of harmony or disharmony with something. What are we saying the something is, the something is who you really are, your true nature and the nature of reality. That is really truth. There is who you really are, your true nature and the nature of reality. When you think, in a way, that’s true, it will feel good. When you think in a way that’s harmony with the truth of who you are.

It will feel good when you think in a way that isn’t true. It’s less true, you will feel less good. Sydney Banks said your wisdom is only he didn’t say a little bit of it, he said your wisdom is only in a positive feeling.

Your wisdom is only in a beautiful feeling. Why is that? The Source within you, the creator, of which you are an expression, this consciousness, this energy of all things of which you are an expression. That energy is a very high frequency, high vibrational energy. Human beings would refer to this energy as love, peace, joy, bliss, abundance, empowerment, clarity. They would use words like this to describe what this pure source energy essence, that expresses all things.

That’s the highest energy within you, that’s the highest truth of you. You express that uniquely. And of course, your expression of that is not all that you are, your expression of this allness is less than it. So there’s a deviation to begin with, right? You are not who you think you are. Who you think you are is but a fraction of the truth of you.

I like to say in Living Miraculously, you may have heard in my programs, I’ll often say you are far more than you think. And forever shall be far more than you think. You cannot think all that you are, it’s not possible. So who you really are is beyond your thinking, beyond anything you can believe. But the fact is, you are thinking, and all that means is you are limiting. Of course you are. You have to, because if you were all that is you would disappear into nothing. All you are is thinking, which is limiting, but that’s not a bad thing. That’s what experience and existence and creation is. An aspect and expression of the art.

So that’s what you are here, we’re one big walking limitation, that’s fine. It’s not a problem. We can enjoy all kinds of aspects of all that we are. So you do that. But as you think, part of what you’re doing is you are expressing all that is uniquely, but as a result that there is a desire within you a feeling a desire, an impulse to be who you really are. Now, look at the dilemma in this. You’re a speck of all.

Within you, there’s a knowing of all that you are. It’s the most beautiful design. So within you is an impulse to be who you really are. How do you be who you really are? Number one, you’re already that, but from the perspective of course, that’s the only thing that’s actually conscious, but from a person’s focus perspective as the speck that is you. Sydney Banks called it a microscopic aspect of the energy of all things from a focus as that the desire is to be what you are through that.

The all that is, is an eternal becoming, expansion, expressing more of itself. This is such a paradox because you say, well, all that is is all that is so how would you say it’s expanding? Only one way it can expand and that is to express more of itself, from within itself. From within itself from every aspect of itself like you and I. As you and I expand and thrive and become and be more of who we really are. All that is, is more of all that it is not the most beautiful thing. That’s the impulse you feel.

This is where Sydney Banks said, he said there is only one will, and that is the will of God. So he spoke of free will, and we have free will and whatever. And he said that too. Everything’s a paradox. So he goes, you have free will, you can think for yourself. It’s all free will. And then he says, but there is only one will. And that is the will of God.

What are you saying? You’re confusing? What’s this mean? Well, it means is the only force in the universe, in Star Wars, that called the force, the only will in the universe is the will have the all the of consciousness to know and experience itself. In all the ways that it can. So that is, the only will there is, which is why we also if you’ve heard, we, of course, we’ve all heard, know thyself. Because that’s all there is, we’re here, the only thing driving the only thing wanting is to know thyself.

And that know thyself is from all that is to know itself. I mean, consciousness is aware and aware of what – aware of itself. There’s nothing else to be aware of. So it’s an energy of all things that means there are no things other than it. That is one principal conscious. And so, it is aware of itself. And then what that implies, it is aware of itself, and every aspect of itself.

The whole energy or movement is into a greater and greater and greater knowing of itself, you could say a deeper and deeper and deeper knowing of itself, or you could say it the other way, and an expansion into more and more knowing of what it is and the knowing is expressed and experienced. So it only knows what it experiences and experiences through you and me and through a billion others and plants, animals, trees, minerals, and other planets and all that like so. It’s all consciousness. Almost a bit out there.

Alexandra: It’s lovely. Thank you so much. My eggs feel a little scrambled. I had a guest who used that expression the other day. I love it. That was amazing.

Is there anything you’d like to share that we haven’t touched on yet today?Dominic: We all make too much of all of this. Life is supposed to be fun. The purpose of life is joy. Syd got to that when he said, we just stop talking about all this stuff and go live life. So you don’t need to study this. You don’t need to take courses in this.

The way it all works is your own life is actually the only teacher you can have. Abraham Hicks says that they say words don’t teach. It’s odd. We use so many things. They say words don’t teach only your own life experience can teach you. The reason words don’t teach is people have listened to this podcast and I’ve used a lot of words. Well, the only thing you can do with that is believe me or don’t believe me. None of it makes a difference. Whether you believe me or don’t believe me, it makes no difference. These words don’t teach anyone. These words point to something, but they don’t teach anything.

Your own life, though, will show you the laws of the universe. Your own life will demonstrate to you by your own direct experience, who you really are, your true nature, and the nature of reality. And you’ll know that that’s true. How you’ll know that you’ve discovered is you know, what happens in this as I say a bunch of stuff and you listen, but there’s some things that I say. And someone listening goes oh yeah, that’s true. and all that. So it’s not what I said. What?

Syd said, I can’t share this with you, you would have to see it from within you. So, I chatter away, I say a bunch of stuff. And then someone goes, Yeah, that’s true. Well, what that means is that you heard something there. A better way of saying it. You interpreted something, you thought something. And that thought resonated within you as true. That’s your wisdom. Don’t blame me. That’s your wisdom that you just heard. And you know, it’s true. It’s like what’s clear to you? So that’s what, you know, that I’d leave people with.

Relax, there’s nothing serious going on. And you’re fine on your own. Just live your life. It’ll teach you everything. As an eternal being what difference does it make? Have fun with this? It never ends.

Alexandra: That’s a great thought to wind up with.

Dominic, where can we find out more about you in your work?Dominic: DominicScaffidi.com. That’s the website that will link you everywhere. It’ll give you a link to my Facebook group, which is called Ask And It Is Given: How Thoughts Become Things. It’s a very great Facebook group and it’s where I spend the most time on Facebook is in that Facebook group. I invite you to join at my website, you’ll see a ton of resources of free webinars and all kinds of recordings and stuff that are available. I share lots of stuff, more is coming, you can tell I have a lot to say. You can check YouTube channel, again with my name. So those places and again, from my website, they’ll link all over to those.

Once you get to know me, I always recommend, check out that stuff that’s free, you’ll know whether you resonate or don’t. And once you do, you may consider it they’re not necessary or needed. You may consider group programs.

I do offer group programs like Living Miraculously, which I do with Grace Kelly, a colleague of mine, and other ones that I do as well. And so those group programs are ways that I do, and then a few people I work with one to one and that kind of coaching.

Alexandra: I will put links in the show notes, for sure. Dominic, thank you so much for being with me here today. I really appreciate it.

Dominic: I’ve enjoyed our conversation and this exploration. Thank you for the invitation.

Alexandra: My pleasure. Take care.

Dominic: Yeah, Alexandra. Bye bye.

Featured image photo by Chris Abney on Unsplash

The post Thriving Is Effortless with Dominic Scaffidi appeared first on Alexandra Amor Books & Courses.

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So often we demonize our bad habits. But what if those habits are working to bring us messages about our perfect human design?

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Click the image below to learn about the Unbroken Community and join the waitlist.

Show Notes

• Your unwanted habit is not a problem
• The good feeling our habits point us toward
• How we are designed to return to a state of calm and quiet
• How understanding the nature of thought resolves habits
• The gift of knowing where our experience is coming from

Transcript of EpisodeWhen we have an unwanted habit like overeating it can feel like there’s something broken about us. Our culture tends to shame those with unwanted habits and it is widely assumed that there is something wrong with anyone who struggles with them. Judgments, including self-judgments, are made about a perceived lack of discipline or lack of self-care.

But what if an unwanted habit like overeating was a sign of all that’s right with you, not with something that’s wrong?

What if your unwanted habit is a solution, not a problem?For decades, we’ve been approaching unwanted habits as though they are the enemy. How’s that working for us? Not well, I’d say. We only have to look at the rising statistics about obesity or drug and alcohol addiction to see that this seems to be a battle we’re losing. Badly.

In this course, I’d like to explore turning our attitude toward unwanted habits on its head. It’s so easy to misunderstand what an unwanted habit is trying to tell us, so we’ll explore the messages habits are trying to send us and how our unwanted habits are actually a perfect part of our innate design.

If that sounds absurd or ridiculous, consider that until very recently we thought we had only five senses. Scientists now identify more than 20. Things look true until we are presented with an alternative.

I’m Alexandra Amor and I’m an author, a podcaster, and someone who’s searched for answers about my own unwanted overeating habit for the past three decades. Name a strategy for resolving a habit and I’ve tried it. Nothing worked.

Then in 2017 I discovered a field of spiritual psychology that had me doubting my perceived brokenness and instead awakening to the innate well-being that is within all of us. This change in understanding has me looking toward my wholeness, rather than perceived brokenness, and has helped me to resolve so much of what I had been suffering with for years. It has led me back to my natural state of calm resilience. No will power required.

If you are someone who has an unresolved and unwanted habit that’s what I want to share with you in this course.

Lesson 1: Your habit is not a problem

Hello and welcome,

Have you ever found yourself engaged in a behaviour while simultaneously berating yourself for that behaviour? I’m guessing you answered yes to that question because the truth is almost all humans have this experience at one time or another. This is an unwanted habit.

• Smoking
• Drinking too much
• An excess of online shopping
• Overeating

And it’s possible, if you’re listening to this, that you’ve tried to stop an unwanted behaviour at one time or another. Our tried and not-so-true techniques to stop such habits often involve things like will power, or distracting ourselves, or tricking ourselves into avoiding the habitual behaviour. We can work really hard to try to force or convince an unwanted habit to go away and leave us alone. Unwanted habits can feel like a monkey on our back, one who is clingy and relentless when it comes to needing our attention.

I personally struggled with an overeating habit for 30+ years. That habit felt like a character flaw, a failing, and a personal weakness. It was also something I was deeply ashamed of. So I traveled the self-help road for all those decades, trying to ‘fix’ myself. I focused mightily on the problematic nature of the habit; that’s where all my attention went – innocently thinking of the habit as a problem.

Among the fixes I tried were talk therapy, EMDR, mindfulness, counting food points, extremely restrictive diets, hypnosis, emotional freedom technique, rational recovery, cognitive behavioural therapy….I could go on. This is by no means an exhaustive list of what i tried.

None of it worked. In fact, my overeating habit got worse over the years.

Looking back now I appreciate my relentless efforts to help myself. I was trying to find a solution to something that looked a problem.But what if our unwanted habits are actually an expression of the innate Intelligence that is within all of us? What if they are a sign of our mental health, not a psychological failing? What if they are a sign that we are in perfect working order?

Earlier I touched on the fact that unwanted habits are universal. They cross cultural and geographic boundaries. Why is that? Why are habits and addictions such universal human experiences?

Conventional psychological theory says that when we have an unwanted habit that we are trying to bury uncomfortable feelings or soothe ourselves, cope with trauma and the bumps and bruises that occur in every life.

In this course, I’m going to turn your understanding of unwanted habits on its head. I’ll explain how all unwanted habits and addictions have the same origin and how their universality actually points toward their wise nature. We’ll talk about how addictions and unwanted habits are not about the substance that’s being consumed; in other words, contrary to what the diet industry tells us, overeating is not about the food. We’ll explore the feedback and messages that your unwanted habit is trying to communicate to you and how wise these messages are. And I’ll share how easy it is to misunderstand these messages and how innocently we can get caught up in that misinterpretation. We’ll also explore alternatives to the ways we have historically dealt with an unwanted habit.

Let’s begin by talking about the way that we’ve viewed unwanted habits like overeating up to now. It’s easy to experience these habits as problems, isn’t it? We have cravings and unwanted urges that seem to force us into behaviours that we don’t want to be engaging in. We find ourselves eating too much or eating foods that aren’t good for us. Or we consume vast quantities of food only to spend days punishing ourselves in response. These things can become cyclical; we engage in the overeating behaviour, only to regret it afterwards and swear we’ll never do it again. But then we do.

Of course all of this seems like a problem. Especially if, like me, you end up on that quitting and then relapsing roundabout for years, if not decades. If you’re listening to this then no doubt in an effort to help yourself get off the roundabout you’ve tried many things to break your habit: will power being a very common approach. White knuckling it through days of tuna fish and steamed vegetables. Or maybe tracking what you’re eating, writing down everything that goes into your mouth. Perhaps creating a list of forbidden foods and swearing you’ll never eat them again. Or tricking yourself into different behaviours by emptying cupboards and the fridge and starting fresh.

We’ve all had experiences similar to this when it comes to trying to break a habit. So one very important thing I’d love you to hear from me today is that while you – and I – were doing all those things we were doing them because they made sense at the time. These are the tools we had access to for dealing with unwanted habits.

Restriction. Will power. Wrestling our cravings into submission.

Or trying to.

If you can, in this moment, I’d love for you to offer yourself some compassion around this. It might feel heavy; all the effort and subsequent lack of success that you experienced. But I’ll repeat myself and say you were doing what you knew to do at the time. It was the best solution you had to offer yourself.

In this course I’d like to offer you an alternative. I’d like to show you how your unwanted habit is actually a sign of your mental health. And then explore how when we see habits through this lens our battle with them can slow down and then eventually stop entirely.

Let’s begin with the next lesson where we’ll explore the intelligence behind your cravings.

Lesson 2: Home BaseIf you’ll indulge me for a moment, I’d like you to close your eyes (if it’s safe to do so) and settle into yourself. Feel your breath going into and out of your lungs. Feel it filling up your chest like a balloon and then releasing and relaxing.

Now I’d love for you to call to mind a time when you felt content and peaceful. That time might be recently or it might be long ago. Doesn’t really matter when it was. What I’d like you to bring to the front of your mind is a time when you felt a really good feeling. You might have been having a laugh with a friend, or sitting quietly in the sun, or enjoying a concert or sporting event that makes you happy. Maybe you’re creative and can recall a time when you felt particularly fulfilled by a project or the process of making something beautiful.

I’ll give you a moment to bring something to mind.

That feeling, however you may describe it – genuine contentment, happiness, relaxation, fulfillment – for the purposes of this lesson let’s call that good feeling home base.

That home base feeling is your birthright. It is what you are made of.Let’s do another little exercise. Think about the ideal vacation for you. Imagine for a moment what that would be. There’s no need to overthink it; you’ll know when the idea for what would look to you like an ideal vacation pops into your head.

Now, let me ask you this: If I asked a group of 10 people to imagine their ideal vacation do you think everyone in that group would picture the same thing? Of course not. Some people would picture white sandy beaches and lying in the sun. Someone else might imagine racing down snowy slopes on skis. A third person might picture visiting museums and art galleries in foreign cities. Someone else might imagine spending time at home with their family.

What we can see from this exercise is that idea of ‘vacation’ isn’t a specific place or experience, it’s a feeling.

In our fast paced Western culture how much time do we spend thinking about vacations, planning them, dreaming about getting away from our regular lives?

Why is that?

It’s because we’re searching for the good feeling we hope we’ll get from the vacation.Now, what does all this talk about good feelings have to do with resolving an unwanted habit, you might ask.
Well, it points to the idea that we’re so often searching – mentally or physically – for a good feeling. Imagined lottery wins, fantasy romance scenarios, dream jobs, a super fancy car, greater financial security. A desire for love, connection, peace of mind. Vacations. All these things are pointing toward our innate wish to connect with and experience good feelings.

We are all wired to want to feel good, to have that ‘home base’ feeling. And, more to the point, not just to have it, but to embody it. To experience it deep in our cells.

Nobody wants to be miserable.Ask yourself, would anyone accuse us of being mentally unhealthy for wanting to experience a good feeling?

No, probably not.

It may sound obvious, but one way that humans attempt to get that home base feeling is by doing things that make us feel good. Things that give us a ‘rush’ so to speak of the good feeling that we are searching for and that we are made of. These things can be shopping, smoking, drinking, sex, drugs, and yes, eating. All these things, and so many more, are things we do to try to manufacture a good feeling.

Think of how you feel when you first indulge in your unwanted habit – before the guilt and recrimination set in. It feels good, right? The first pull on a cigarette or the first bite of a favourite food. There’s a good feeling there, if only for an instant.

That’s one reason why we do it. That’s why we indulge in our unwanted habit over and over again. We are trying to feel that good feeling.

You might say, “Thank you Captain Obvious. Of course habits are trying to simulate a good feeling. Have you eaten a piece of chocolate cake lately? It’s heaven in every bite.”

The reason I bring up this obvious idea, is that it points out that unwanted habits are a sign of our mental health, not of mental weakness or a lack of will power or an addictive personality. Unwanted habits are a way for us to create a simulated good feeling. Unfortunately, they come with baggage attached; guilt, shame, self-recrimination, not to mention their adverse affects on our health. But their origin is innocent. We are always searching for a good feeling and we will do so even when that search causes problems.

We are searching for a good, calm, peaceful, soothing feeling because that feeling – that home base – is our most natural state. And we know this, instinctively, even when we’re far away from that feeling.

Think about babies for a moment. As long as their needs are met – their diaper is clean, they are fed and have had enough sleep – they live in that calm, peaceful place. This is who we are, and this is what our unwanted habits like overeating are trying to achieve.

The good news is that when we begin to see our unwanted habits for what they are – a wise part of our innate intelligence, an indicator of our well-being – then we can let go of some of the baggage that comes along with those habits. And when we stop beating ourselves up for having the habit, that itself is one important step to resolving an unwanted habit.

In the next lesson we’re going to build on this idea of our home base feeling and talk about what unwanted habits are trying to accomplish in addition to creating a good feeling.

Lesson 3: A Quiet MindDo you own an Instantpot? They were all the rage a few years ago. (I love mine.) Instantpots are a brand name for what my grandmother called a pressure cooker, which is a pot that cooks its contents with pressure rather than with heat. The pot is sealed and pressure builds up and that’s what cooks whatever’s inside.

If you own either an Instantpot or a pressure cooker you know that there’s a valve that allows you to release some of the pressure in the pot. When you do so it makes a whooshing sound and you can see steam escaping the pot.

In my work I very often use the following metaphor for unwanted habits: our minds are like pressure cookers and our behaviour – our unwanted habit – is the release valve on that pressure cooker. The pressure inside the metaphorical Instantpot is created by our busy thinking. So in other words, our unwanted habit releases the pressure that builds up in our minds from our thinking.

The thinking you experience in life is like the contents of that pressure cooker. It can build and build until it feels like too much to cope with, swirling around inside your noggin, keeping you awake at night, interfering with the concentration required for other things. The solution for the build-up of this pressure is the release valve. That release valve shows up as behaviours that can run the gamut from lashing out in anger, to over shopping, to yelling in traffic, to overeating, smoking, drinking too much, and hoarding, just to give a few examples.

The release valve gets us back to a better feeling, to the home base feeling we talked about in the previous lesson. Even if the change is only incremental, we still feel a bit better. Some of the pressure within us has been released and we are slightly more calm, more peaceful.

In this way, an overeating habit or other unwanted habit is actually a solution not a problem. I’m going to say that again so you don’t miss it. Our unwanted habits are solutions, not problems.

A habit releases some of the pressure within you that is created by busy thinking. In this way, a habit is a necessary and natural part of your perfect design. Without the release valve the pressure cooker would explode.

This is another reason why your unwanted habit is a sign of your mental health and a sign that you are in perfect working order. That release valve behaviour is evidence that you are looking for a better feeling, that you are wired to search for and crave a good feeling. What that tells us is that you are made of peace and well-being and your habit is evidence of that. Just like a fish will always need water, humans will always need what they are made of; peace, love, well-being. Your habit is a truth about who you are at your core.

We tend to think about unwanted habits and cravings as though they’re a broken part of ourselves, like they’re a flat tire on a car or an app on our phone that is on the fritz and keeps sending us unwelcome alerts. However, let me challenge that by adding another metaphor into the mix: What I would like you to consider is that cravings are actually a barometer. And that barometer is always in perfect working order.

A barometer is a device that tells us about the atmospheric pressure in our geographic area.

A craving – for food or for a cigarette or for a new pair of shoes when you’ve already got dozens of pairs – is a feedback system that tells us about the atmospheric pressure within ourselves.Barometers measure the layers of air that wrap around the earth that are affected by gravity. We call this the earth’s atmosphere. Changes in the atmosphere affect the earth’s weather systems. The way that a barometer reflects atmospheric pressure is typically with hands (like a clock’s hands) on a dial pointing toward numbers.

A food craving is doing exactly the same thing. It is pointing toward the ‘weather’ inside you.“Duh,” you might say. “If I feel super stressed I crave a piece of cake. That’s not breaking news.”

You’re right. It’s not. But what I’m suggesting is that the craving itself is not an indication that there is anything wrong with you, even when you’re feeling stressed or triggered by life. There is wisdom behind the cravings we feel that is deeper than a feeling that we want to use a substance in order to try to soothe and comfort ourselves when we’ve had a hard day. What I’m saying is that there is a beautiful and perfect mechanism within us (food craving, or any kind of craving) that lets us know what the ‘weather’ inside us is doing at any given moment. We need that signal (the craving) to remind us of our innate, peaceful nature.

So what’s the alternative to will power and tricking ourselves into stopping an unwanted habit? We all live with thinking in our heads, how can we release the pressure that builds up without turning toward our unwanted overeating habit? Well, here’s where things get really interesting. Unlike other self-help tools I’m not going to direct you toward replacing the pressure value release with some other sort of behaviour. Instead, using a different metaphor, we’re going to look at the nature of what’s in the pot itself.

Lesson 4: The Nature of ThinkingAt this point in our exploration you might be thinking that the solution to the pressure cooker metaphor in the previous lesson would be to change our thoughts so that they don’t build up in the pressure cooker.

And perhaps you’ve even tried to do that in the past. Using mantras or positive reinforcement to change your thinking around your habit.

However, we’re going to look in an entirely different direction. We’re going to look away from positive thinking and monitoring or calming our thoughts, and instead look at the nature of thought itself. When we understand what Thought is and how it works, our unwanted habits can become unnecessary.

In order to do that, let me switch metaphors from the one in the previous lesson. Imagine you lived in a world where no one had explained to you how a bathtub drain works. Every time you took a bath, afterwards you’d have to find a way to empty the water out of the tub. You might take a bucket and scoop out the water and carry it through your house to the front door, and then take it outside and dump it somewhere. Then you’d have to go back to the tub and scoop out some more water and carry that outside, repeating that process until all the water was out of the tub. Emptying the tub would require a lot of effort on your part, and create a lot of extra stress for you. Plus there would be mess to clean up afterward, drips of water on the floor of your home.

Not knowing any other way to empty a tub, you’d go through this laborious process until the day someone explained to you how drains work. They’d show you that there is a drain on the bottom of the tub where, when open, allows the water to flow away on its own. There’s nothing else for you to do. Once you see this you’ll never empty the tub with a bucket again.

The understanding that I’m exploring in this course is like that information about the drain. I’m pointing out to you how tubs, drains, and water work. If it’s not clear, the water represents your thinking. As you begin to understand this, and as your understanding deepens, you’ll see there’s less and less for you to do with your thinking.

Our thinking flows into us from a source other than ourselves, stays with us for a time, and then moves on without us having to do anything about it. Sometimes the water is crystal clear, sometimes it is murky, but the thing that never changes is that it flows, it moves of its own accord. That is its nature.

We can see this in action in the following examples. If I asked you to think exclusively about pink elephants for the next 10 minutes, and told you i’d give you a million dollars if you could do that, would you be able to do it?

As much as we’d like to think the answer to this challenge would be yes, we know it’s not possible, right? Especially if you’ve ever tried meditating. Thoughts pop into our minds, sometimes at random, often rapidly, one after the other. No doubt you’re familiar with the expression ‘monkey mind’.

Are you the master of all that thinking? Can you control every thought that comes into your mind?

No, of course not.

So if we’re not in control of our thinking – which I know is a radical concept – what is?Continuing with the bathtub metaphor from earlier, if we took a ‘positive thinking’ approach, we would be trying to control the clarity of the water that comes into the tub. That’s a ton of work, and it’s fruitless because the nature of water is that some days it’s clear, and some days it’s not. (Where I live, when we have big rain storms, the water can get very murky indeed.) Being concerned with the quality of the water in the tub at any given moment (positive thinking) is a waste of energy because in the next moment there will be different water in the tub. And then again in the moment after that.

Instead when we focus on understanding the nature of water, knowing it will continue to flow no matter what, we can relax about what the tub is holding at any given moment.

In other words, when we begin to see that thought is flowing through us, like water, like energy, we can rest in the understanding that battling with a craving is like trying to manage or organize the water in a stream. By seeing our thinking for what it is, we can relax knowing that any given thought, including a craving, will be followed soon by another thought. And then another. We don’t need to latch onto the craving thought and manage it.

The other important thing to mention in this discussion of the nature of our thinking is that just like the water in the bathtub, our thinking is designed to settle down all on its own. You could have a toddler in that metaphorical tub, splashing around, having a grand old time with toys and stirring the water up until it slops over the edge of the tub. But the nature of that water is that if you leave it alone, if the toddler stops splashing, the water will settle. There’s nothing you need to do to make it do that. In fact, getting involved while the water is settling will likely only stir it up a bit more.

Your thinking is exactly like the water in that tub. Leave it alone and it will settle down all by itself. No doubt you’ve experienced this, probably on more than one occasion. We’ve all had moments where we were upset about something or angry and then we got distracted. For a moment our anger is entirely gone and we’re focused on something else. Of course, that anger or upset can return, but in that instance did we make it go away? No, it settled down, like the water in the tub, when we weren’t agitating it.

Our unwanted habits, like overeating, are an innocent way that we try to manage the water in the tub when it’s stirred up. Engaging in the habit is a distraction, like I mentioned a moment ago. We become distracted from our busy thinking, if even just for a moment.

But when we understand the nature of thought, the need for the unwanted habit lessens. We begin to rely on our innate design, knowing that if we leave our thinking alone it will settle on its own.

As I mentioned at the beginning of this lesson, resolving a habit like overeating doesn’t come from forcing behavioural change, it comes from understanding the nature of thought. And from understanding your beautiful, innate design that is always pointing you back toward the peace and calm.

Lesson 5: Life Inside OutI’ve thrown a number of metaphors and new ideas at you in these lessons. If what I’ve said feels like it has scrambled your eggs a bit, that’s okay. That reaction is common when we’re learning something entirely new that contradicts so much of what we’ve believed about ourselves for years, if not decades. Especially if you’re someone like myself who is a natural seeker and has long wanted to find an answer to an unwanted habit.

So as we wrap up, let me briefly go over what we’ve discussed.

1. You are made of peace and calm and a good feeling. That’s who you are at your core. Your desire to learn and grow by listening to courses like this and being here on Insight Timer proves this. We are always wanting to connect with the innate love that we are made of.
2. Your unwanted habit is not a broken part of yourself. There’s nothing you need to fix about it. It is, in fact, part of the universal intelligence that includes your beautiful and brilliant human design.
3. Your unwanted habit is both a solution and a barometer. It is a solution because it is a way to release some of the pressure inside you that results from a busy, overactive mind. And it is a barometer because when you feel an urge to indulge in your habit, that urge alerts you to your state of mind.
4. Your brilliant and innate design knows how to settle down that busy, overactive mind. You don’t need to do anything to make that happen.

These lessons are the tip of the iceberg when it comes to exploring this new field of spiritual psychology commonly called the Three Principles or the Inside Out Understanding. These principles were first articulated by a man named Sydney Banks and it is to him and other teachers who follow him that I must credit for everything I’ve shared here.

It’s so easy, especially for seekers like us, to get caught up in what can feel like a perpetual race to fix ourselves. I admire that impulse in others, and in myself, – it comes from a very pure place – but it can become exhausting. Until I came across this understanding, I felt like I was on an endless self-help treadmill, always running but never reaching a goal. There was always something else to fix or change about myself.

However what I love about the understanding I’ve shared with you today is that it is always, always pointing us back to our innate well-being. There’s nothing we need to fix or change or improve. It’s all there within us, and it always has been.

Exploring this understanding is like having the clouds in an overcast sky gradually part. The blue sky was always there, we just couldn’t see it. The more I am reminded to focus on the sky – the eternal, infinite, entirely whole sky – and not on the clouds, the more the clouds thin and move out of my line of sight.

If it’s not obvious yet, the understanding you’ve just explored in this course is about more than food, more than eating, and more than resolving an unwanted habit. It’s about your true nature and how brilliant and beautiful that is. It’s about the perfection behind our human design and how that design is always working for us, not against us. It’s about how we are always healthy, always whole even when we are struggling with something like an overeating problem, and how that ‘problem’ is itself pointing us back to our innate wholeness and well-being.

Unwanted habits are, surprisingly, a language of love and of wisdom. When we see them for what they are every aspect of our life is changed and sweetened. Life becomes a joyful, gentle exploration rather than a journey filled with disheartening trails and challenges. Trials and challenges are part of life, of course, but they have less weight when we view them knowing we are all infinitely resilient and that we can rely on the well of peace that is always at our core, and always available to us.

My wish for you is that this course is the beginning of your exploration into all that you are. And also that you remember, as often as possible, that your food cravings, or shopping habit, or video game addiction, are not a problem. When we see them for what they really are, we begin to see that they are a gift. And that they are whispering, “You are well. You are whole. You are love.”

I thank you so much for exploring with me. And I wish you all the very best on your journey.

Featured image photo by Laurent Beique on Unsplash

The post Why Your Habit Proves You’re In Perfect Working Order appeared first on Alexandra Amor Books & Courses.

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One Sunday afternoon in April a traveller and a podcaster meet and share a drive through the mountains of Vancouver Island. As a result, the podcaster is deeply moved by the message the traveller, and the universe, had for her.

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Show Notes

• Clarification about the traffic light metaphor
• Trusting a good feeling that comes with an unusual experience
• Following that good feeling
• Listening to nudges from the universe
• Listening to the feeling behind the words someone is sharing
• Learning to relax as a spiritual practice
• Noting the miracles and synchronicities that happen to us

Resources Mentioned in this Episode

• Michael Singer’s books are The Untethered Soul and The Surrender Experiment
• Dominic Scafidi and Grace Kelly’s Living Miraculously course

Transcript of EpisodeHello explorers and welcome to Unbroken. I’m Alexandra Amor. This is episode 59. Thank you for being here with me today.

I want to remind you that if you’re interested in joining the Unbroken Community, or at least getting on the waitlist there, you can do that at AlexandraAmor.com/community. That’s going to be an interactive twice monthly group call, lots of interaction with me, lots of support, lots of community, as the name implies, and connection with your fellow explorers. And all the details are on that webpage. As I said, AlexandraAmor.com/community.

Second thing. Last week in Episode 58, partway through, I talked about the red, yellow, green light of truth of tuning into or leaning into connecting with our intuition about moving forward, which is going to connect to today’s show, actually. My friend who listens to this episode pointed out to me, she said, “When you’re talking about the red, green, yellow light, are you seeing that visually?” which made me realize, Oh, I didn’t really explain that properly, then.

The light metaphor that I used, really just explains a feeling. So when I say I would get a green light in my body, what I mean is, I feel it somewhere inside me. Now I specifically feel that feeling in my solar plexus, that’s the place where I always feel everything. You know how we talk about it, we have a gut feeling, I think that’s where that expression must come from. Because I always feel those things in the area of my solar plexus. Sort of behind my belly button. That part of my body.

When I feel green light feeling it’s there. I don’t see a green light or anything. Same with red, and then yellow. The yellow light’s kind of interesting, because it’s either it’s a little bit binary, you know, it’s a yes or no, very often. And I guess sometimes it feels like a well, you know, maybe maybe not, there’s a bit of hesitation there, it’s less, perhaps less dramatic than a full a no, full stop. So that maybe we could classify that as yellow light.

In your own experience, you might, if you give the traffic light metaphor a try, if you’re practicing it, your experience might be different.

Maybe you feel the feeling somewhere else in your body. Or maybe it’s more of a knowing than a than a than a physical feeling. Mine has a little bit of physicality to it, it’s a knowing for sure. But it’s there’s also definitely a feeling going on, in like I say in my solar plexus. So I wanted to be clear about that. And clarify. Thank you to my friend for asking that question. I appreciate it.

When I’m recording these episodes, where I it’s just me talking, I’m just staring at the computer screen and talking into the microphone. And it’s easy to get rolling along and forget to explain things as clearly maybe as I should. If someone’s not there to ask questions. It can be easy to just sort of barrel along. So if you ever have a question, same thing, and something like that, where something’s not clear, that I’ve talked about, I hope you’ll submit that and let me know.

You can do that at AlexandraAmor.com/question.

Okay, so on to today’s episode, which I haven’t as I’m recording this, I realize I haven’t got a title for it yet. But that’ll come next.

I want to tell you a really great story about something that happened to me just three days ago. I wanted to share this for a number of reasons, which will become clearer and I’ll explain more about that as we get to the end of the actual story itself.

A few days ago, I was driving home from visiting my friend, the same friend who asked the question about the traffic light. And it’s a quite a long drive. It’s three hours, I live in pretty remote area. So I was coming along through this area of Vancouver Island, it’s actually quite well known. It’s called Cathedral Grove. And you can stop and park your car. And there’s all these enormous cedar trees. It’s kind of like the redwood forest in California, these just gigantic trees. And there are trails through the trees. And it’s a really popular tourist area in the summer.

The speed limit goes from 80 down to 50. You have to really slow down because there’s people crossing the road. So I was just toodling along, on my way to the last town before I get onto the highway, which is really just a two lane road, to come to my town where I live on the coast. And as I drove through this Cathedral Grove area, there was a young fellow standing on the side of the road, and he had a backpack. He had one of those cardboard signs, when you’re a hitchhiker just sort of a rectangle. And he’d written on there in sharpie, the nickname for the town where I live.

The town is called Ucluelet but the nickname is Ukee. He had this sign that said Ukee.

Right away, I just had the strongest feeling that I needed to pick him up. And then, for a couple of reasons, my brain got involved, and I didn’t pick him up.

The first reason was that I needed to go to the next town, the last town before I came over to the west coast of the island, I needed to run a bunch of errands. And so in just a split second when I saw him and I got that knowing feeling, a green light, we could say, I need to pick this guy up. I thought I can’t do that, because I have these errands to run. And when I’m running the errands in Port Alberni, which is the name of the town, I’m not going to leave a stranger in my car while I do that, and, or make them get out of the car, and then lock the car while I’m in the store.

I also didn’t want him sort of trailing around. My mind did all these calculations in like I say, a nanosecond. So that was the first thing.

The second thing was that I’m a woman travelling alone. And he’s a man. And it’s not the safest thing to do in those circumstances for a woman to pick up a hitchhiker. It’s not something I do. It’s not something I had actually ever done until I moved here to the coast. I won’t go into all the details about why it happens sometimes here on the coast, but it does. But I’ve never picked up someone outside of town, let alone two hours away from where I live.

And my brain also said, you don’t have to be responsible for this guy, just because he’s going to the same place that you are. So all this is racing through my mind. And simultaneously, well, the wiser part of myself just knew not only that I should pick him up, or could pick him up, but that it was meant to be that I would pick him up.

I keep driving. And because of this little battle now that’s going on between my head and my and the wiser parts of myself, I start thinking, “Should I turn around, should I pull a U turn?” I’m looking for spaces on the road where I can do that. Then if I did that, I’d have to do another U turn back where he was. And then another part of me is saying, you’re not responsible for everybody. You don’t have to pick this guy up, just because he’s going where you’re going. And so I just carried on.

But that little struggle continued within me for longer than what might have been typical; it really kept going. And there’s this big hill that you climb, so I’m driving up the hill thinking oh, geez, you know, I really should have picked that guy up. And then yeah, but I couldn’t I have these errands, blah, blah, blah. So around in circles I went. I come to the town Port Alberni and I go and run my errands. And it probably took me, maybe half an hour, maybe 45 minutes. Trying to remember what I did. Yeah, it probably wasn’t any longer than that I had to drive to a few different places, run these errands might have been close to an hour, but I don’t know.

I go to my final stop, I do the errand. I walk back out to my car, I get in my car. And I’m sort of mentally saying to myself, Okay, is there anything else? Sort of checking my list. Is there anything else I need to do now? Or is that it? I talked to myself about it. And I say no, I think that’s it. I think I’ve done everything I needed to do. So I go to put my seatbelt on and start the car up.

I say out loud in the car by myself. I say, “If I see that guy, between here and Ucluelet I’m going to pick him up.”So off I go. And sure enough, about five or seven minutes into the drive there he is on the side of the road with his little Ukee sign near a gas station coming towards the outskirts of town. So I pull over and I unlock the doors and he climbs in, puts his stuff in the back seat. And off we go. So right away, I could tell he was just the loveliest guy. He’s traveling around the world.

He’s originally from France. And he’s probably 25 or 27, something like that. And this is something that he’d always he’s always wanted to do. He’s going to take about three years and really trying to a whole bunch of different places. Some places he’s going to work. Here in Canada, he doesn’t have a work visa so he was doing something called I think it’s called work away. It’s an app. And the reason he was coming to Ucluelet was some people had connected with him on the app. And he was coming to help them build a deck or something. In exchange for that, because he didn’t have a work visa, you get room and board basically.

So we chatted and I peppered him with questions because I was just so fascinated by what he was doing. And this is the information that came out. And few other things about how when he was 10 years old, his family, it’s him, his mom and dad. And then him and his three brothers traveled around the world for a year. So that was maybe where the seed got planted about his love for travel. And he shared the other places that he was going to go. And the different countries and the reasons that he was going there.

He told me a little bit about where he’d been so far and the things he’d done and that kind of stuff. And at one point, while he was talking, I had asked him a question he was answering. I silently in my head just said to the universe, okay, you know, this is really fun. And he’s a nice guy. This is really interesting. And I’m really curious about the reason that he’s here. Like, what’s the message here?

The reason I said that to the universe was because it just felt so magical.What happened and that magic wasn’t like you see in the movies where there’s a big booming voice like in Field of Dreams, where there’s a voice that says you need to do this thing, you need to pick up this hitchhiker. I didn’t have any visions or anything. It was just a really strong, like I say, knowing I needed to pick this guy up and bring him with me to our town.

I was really curious what’s going to happen? What is this situation? What am I going to discover or see or learn or?I was really kind of excited as we drove along and curious, like I say really nice feeling of curiosity and enjoyment. His English was impeccable. I was so embarrassed. English is the only language I speak and here he was, he grew up speaking French and then he was speaking English impeccably, like I say. I think there were two words he couldn’t think of; one was hail. He described it as like snow, but little hard balls. And then there was one other phrase, oh, it was a sailing phrase. To get to North America, he had sailed from Italy to the Caribbean with a guy, same sort of thing, a work exchange thing. No sailing experience, by the way, and he just did this.

So, I had posed my question to the universe. And if nothing had happened, if it was just a nice journey with this young fellow, that would have been fine, too. But we’re partway along the drive for maybe, I don’t know, 45 minutes in. I could really tell that it based on the stories that he was sharing, and his attitude and the experiences that he was talking about, that there was just this deep trust in him of the universe that he would be, and I don’t know, if he would use that phrase of life, maybe he might say, I don’t know that he could just go along, and everything would work out.

I asked him if he had had any difficult experiences. And he did describe a couple, specifically with the captain of the ship that he had sailed over from Italy on. So it wasn’t a naive attitude that he had or a Pollyanna ish about it. He was very grounded. And intelligent, I could tell well educated, but also just really felt I could just feel him resting in the trust that he had in life, and that it would guide him and lead him and show him the way.

So I specifically asked him a question about that.I reflected back and said, “Gee, it really seems like you trust that things will work out. Here you are all by yourself, traveling all around the world.” And I guess the reason that that question came up for me was because of where I had seen him the first time by the side of the road.

He had explained at some point in our conversation that he had got a ride earlier. He had come all the way from Victoria. I think he said I was his seventh vehicle that had been in that day. And so that really struck me; the unpredictability of that really struck me and how much trust you have to have that things will work out. It’s about five and a half or six hour drive if you just drive straight through from Victoria to where I picked him up. And so that’s a long way.

Anyway, so what was I saying? So he had a ride from another part of the island, and that person said that they would take him all the way through to Port Alberni, which is the town where I picked him up. But he knew they were going to come up to this Cathedral Grove area that I talked about with the big trees. And he really wanted to see that. It is really spectacular. He didn’t want to just pass it by. So he said to the guy that he was with, could you drop me there? Because I’d like to explore and they guy said of course. So that’s where they stopped, and he dropped this fellow off.

What struck me about that was that here this fellow was in a vehicle that would take him much further, but he let it go. Because he wanted or he felt compelled or interested to go to Cathedral Grove and have this little walk around. It was something that interested him and felt good to him. There was a good feeling about that. So he did it.

He just trusted that another car would pick him up when he was ready to leave that area, which was true, it did happen.And then that another car would pick them up after that, and he would get all the way to where he needed to go. So the question that I asked him was about that was about trusting the way things are unfolding. He went on to explain. And as Sydney Banks always says it wasn’t the words that were really intriguing to me. He did talk about not having expectations. And that when you don’t have really strong expectations about things, things do just tend to unfold in a nice way.

But it was as Sydney Banks always says, It was the feeling behind the words.The feeling just was that he really trusted that he would be okay. He embarked on this big adventure. And he talked about how every day, every moment. I don’t remember the exact words, but just about trusting what was happening and letting things unfold.

And like I say, that doesn’t mean that he doesn’t ever think there are challenges in life. He certainly did. And he had had some. But the sense I got was how deeply relaxed and grounded he was in his home, in the world, and in the universe, and he knew that it would take care of him. It makes me emotional, actually, as I say that, as I connect with that feeling.

When that happened, when he said that, it was it was like somebody rang a bell in my head. It was like ding, ding, ding. This is why this guy is here. So I’ll talk about that a little bit more now, about my reflections about this experience, and what I think or what it meant to me.

And then I’m going to ask at the end of the show for you to share anything, any experiences like this that you’ve had, if you have something that really reflected back to you how we can trust the world and the universe, I guess the universe is maybe a better way to say that. So, reflections, a couple of things were going on for me.

The first was that I really gave myself permission to trust the feeling to pick him up.I really appreciated that I did that. I do think it was the right thing to do to not pick him up in Cathedral Grove. I think maybe that was just where the seed was planted by the universe. Because it would have been super awkward with me running errands in in the town and I guess maybe I could have dropped him off somewhere and then picked him up later. I don’t know. But if I had done that, we wouldn’t have had such a deep conversation because it’s an hour and a half from where I picked him up to Ukee. So that was really a good amount of time for a really good deep conversation. Whereas if we had only done the shorter run from Cathedral Grove to Port Alberni, it’s only about 15 or 20 minutes and it just wouldn’t have been the same. I trusted the feeling that I got about picking him up.

I really enjoyed feeling that feeling and following it and not letting my head talk me out of it.As a woman traveling alone, of course, there were a dozen reasons why I shouldn’t have picked up a man traveling by himself. What I’m not saying is you should pick up all hitchhikers. That’s not at all what I’m saying. It’s just that in that moment, in that circumstance, I felt a sense of rightness and safety. Or maybe not safety so much but just rightness and clarity about the nudges that I was getting from the universe.

I appreciated that I listened to that. I didn’t ignore it. I stayed calm and I guess passing him by the first time gave me a little bit of time to adjust to the idea because I did think about it a tiny bit when I was running my errands, not a whole ton, but he would pop into my head every once in a while. So I could sort of reconnect with that feeling and, and feel the rightness of it again.

One of the things that I do struggle with is feeling safe and supported by the universe.It’s something I think about a lot. I think about it, where to find that feeling of safety. And of course, it will come it does come insightfully and I think gradually over the years, the last few years, it has definitely grown in me that feeling of trust, and safety. But just personally, I tend to have such a, or have had such a strong grip on life, and really being an overachiever and controlling things and feeling a sense of hyper responsibility about everything.

I know where it comes from; it comes from how I was raised. All these things come from somewhere. And this is the way that my mind reacted to a lot of instability, a lot of fear as a child, a lot of not feeling safe, not feeling protected by my family, but the opposite feeling afraid of the people in my home who were supposed to protect me. So it’s something that I explore a lot of the time is how to get from where I am to where this traveler was mentally, spiritually.

I’d love to be more like him. To just put a backpack on and go travel around the world for three years would terrify me, although I’m twice his age, but still, I couldn’t. He was so relaxed, he was just so deeply relaxed. It was amazing. That was the first lesson that trusting of myself trusting of this nudge I felt like I was getting from the universe. Not talking myself out of it, or letting myself feel afraid. And instead, leaning into the good feeling that was there.

The second thing that felt so cool, that I’ve been reflecting on ever since, is specifically the message that came through that this guy had about trusting the universe.So this is very meta, it’s like two layers of the same thing. I trusted myself to pick him up. And then the message that he had was, trust the universe. Trust that you’re going to be okay, that the universe has your back. I nearly laughed out loud when when he started talking about his approach to things and how he trusted what was unfolding because it was just so perfect. Like I say, it was just so meta. This whole experience.

I felt very protected, or really, really cared for in that moment by the universe.Because I thought, here’s the universe working really hard to get me a message that I am safe, that we are all safe, even when we’re in difficult, challenging circumstances. We are safe. We are more than just our physical bodies, of course. Even when we’re ill, even when we’re in really not great circumstances, we can never be disconnected from the essence of ourselves. And that is the thing that we can trust that is made of the universe. It is that connection to universal wisdom, universal insight, to our well-being. It is so innate.

It’s the fabric that we’re made of, we can never be separated from it.

So this was such a nice reminder about that. And yeah, like I say, it meant so much to me that the universe was working hard to get that message through to me. I don’t take that lightly. I really, really appreciated it on that day. I’m still kind of high from it, it was just really a nice experience.

And so what else have I got to say about that? Well, a couple things.

One is that I belong to a as we’re wrapping up here, I belong to a mastermind group that meets on Tuesday mornings. And last week, one of the ladies in the group mentioned that Michael Singer has said – and I don’t know where and I don’t know when he said this. He’s an author and a spiritual teacher. He wrote The Untethered Soul. And The Surrender Experiment. He surrenders to what’s happening in his life and says yes to everything. It’s been a while since I’ve read it.

My friend on this mastermind call last week said, “Michael Singer says that really, there’s only one practice. And it is to relax.”And man, when she said that I resonated so much with it. Because relaxing, this is what I took from what she said, relaxing, means that we trust, we trust that we are held, and that we’re safe, and that it’s okay to not be hypersensitive, like I am, at time at times hypervigilant. We’re safe. And we can relax.

And it’s a paradox too, the more we relax, it feels like the easier things get, because we can respond to those cosmic nudges, and follow our wisdom, our instinct or our intuition much, easily more easily than when our mind is in overdrive. And it’s trying to figure everything out and control everything and make sure everything’s happening in the right way. And all that kind of stuff.

When we relax we become more deeply connected to the flow, essentially, of the universe.That’s what I’m aiming to learn to do more of. That’s my growing edge. And we all have them all the time. But this is the one that I’m particularly interested in, at this moment. Michael singer said the only practice we need is to relax. And so what Sydney Banks would say, he would use slightly different language, he would talk about following a good feeling. But those two sentences, phrases are pointing to the same thing.

It’s the same thing that that those two men are talking about. They are talking about tapping into Universal Wisdom, and intuition and wellbeing, and all those things that bring a good feeling and which is an important point to make. Throughout this whole thing, this experience with the hitchhiker it was mostly green lights, all along the way. The only time I hesitated, like I say, it was there in Cathedral Grove when I didn’t pick him up.

And yet, at the same time, that that was his own green light in a way it felt that felt like the right thing to do in that moment.

And then the moment changed and it felt like the right thing to do to pick him up the next time I saw him. So, yeah, a little example of following our own wisdom.

And then the final thing I want to say is I just want to reflect back. I can’t remember if I’ve mentioned this on the show or not; I took Dominique Scaffidi and Grace Kelly’s class at the beginning of the year, we started in January, called Living Miraculously. One of the things that Dominic and Grace suggest is keeping a list somewhere of miracles and synchronicities that happen to us. And the purpose of this is to do exactly what I’m talking about; it is to teach us that the universe is there for us, that it is supporting us and loving us. And we are connected to safety at all times.

The way that we see this in tiny, tiny ways, and in big ones, is through what they call miracles and synchronicities.That could be anything from some people really feel a sense of that connection when they see certain numbers, let’s say when they happen to look at the clock. And very often it has a certain set of numbers that a digital clock, or here’s a funny example that I wrote down today, actually. In the last 24 hours I’ve seen heard two mentions of a play, based on the SE Hinten book The outsiders. Now, I didn’t know it was a play. Of course, I read the book as a child, because you do and saw the movie then when it came out later, but hadn’t thought about The Outsiders in a million years. And then twice in 24 hours, somebody mentioned that it’s a play.

It’s like little love letters from the universe. They call them synchronicities, which is so perfect. These things that are just little nudges, little winks from the universe saying, Hey, we’re here, and you are loved, and you are cared for, and you are always, always loved and safe. And all those all those good feelings.

I keep them in an app on my phone. And what can happen is then, as we remember to write these things down or make a note of them, is you can go back and look. And suddenly you’ve got a list…right now I’ve it’s only been what January, March, like three and a half months, and I’ve got a list of dozens of these synchronicities. So for me, it’s been a really fun practice noticing that, and then given my desire to really learn about how it feels to connect to that kind of safe feeling that my hitchhiker friend had. This is one way to remind myself, it seems that that exists. So that’s why I do it. And if that sounds like fun to you, it’s something you could try as well.

I think my throat is getting dry. That’s probably enough talking for today, I would really like to hear if you have any reflections on this idea of safety in the universe and feeling confident enough to let things unfold and flow and how that makes you feel. Maybe you’re great at it already. Maybe it’s something that like me you’d like to develop, maybe you think it’s hogwash, and that there’s no way that we should follow that kind of impulse.

Whatever it is, I would love to hear your thoughts and reflections and like I said early earlier at the top of the show, you can send those to AlexandraAmor.com/question.

I think that’s it for today. I hope you are doing well and taking care and I look forward to talking to you again next week. See you then. Bye.

Featured image photo by Ruben Mishchuk on Unsplash

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Our bodies are the vehicles in which we move through life. Our thinking can be the fog that sometimes fills up the windshield we are looking through. Thankfully, we all have factory installed GPS to help guide our way.

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Click the image below to learn about the Unbroken Community and join the waitlist.

Transcript of EpisodeHello, explorers, and welcome to episode 58 of Unbroken. I’m Alexandra Amor. I’m here today to talk about the windshield of life. I’ll get into that in just a moment. And it is really the one thing I think that when we see it about life, when we understand this idea, this metaphor, it really does change everything, including our ability to deal with things like anxiety, or depression, or unwanted habits like overeating. So we’ll get into that in just a second.

I do want to mention again about the Unbroken Community that I’m starting up. So if you’re interested in joining a group of like minded people, having some one-on-one coaching from me, meeting regularly, twice a month to do that, and learning from the coaching that other people receive as well, go to alexandraamorcom/community. You can learn all about what I’m thinking of for this community. And learn more about the details, including the 10% off that you’ll receive for all my books and courses, and a library of videos that will be available, all that kind of stuff, Alexandraamor.com/community. And there, you can sign up to join the waiting list.

The community hasn’t started yet, if you’re listening to this, as I’m recording in early April 2024. But I want to gauge the level of interest and just see if there’s enough interest in having a group like that. So that’s where you can go to learn more about that and sign up if you would like further information when the group comes together, and when it will be meeting and all that kind of stuff.

All right, let’s get on to this metaphor that I’ve got for you today about the windscreen of life.This came to me the other day, and I jotted it down, probably more than a week ago. And I’ve been sort of contemplating it ever since. I really like it, I think it really explains a lot about what we’re trying to get our heads around when we’re exploring this inside out understanding. So it looks like this.

Picture a car, for me, any kind of car doesn’t matter what kind of car it is, could be your car could be your fantasy car, whatever it is. And that car is going to be a metaphor for us for the way that we move through life. And in every car nowadays, anyway, there’s always a windscreen protecting the driver and the passengers, the interior of the car from what’s on the outside. And so like I said, yeah, the car is a metaphor for you for your body. It’s the vehicle that you are using to move through life.

The windscreen is our ability to see. It’s as clear as possible. We want it to be clean and clear so that we can see what’s happening outside of the vehicle, outside of the car. And then what happens?

Have you ever gotten into your car and this happens here in the environment in the geographic area where I live in the fall and winter. And the atmospheric conditions are such that if the car has been sitting outside for a little while and I get in it, it has that thin film of fog on the inside of the windscreen. It’s not frost or anything on the outside, it’s on the inside. And that is going to be what we’re going to use for a metaphor for our thinking. So to a lesser or greater degree.

As we’re moving through life in this vehicle, there’s always like I say to a lesser or greater degree, there’s always a layer of that thin fog or mist inside the vehicle. And in the old paradigm of psychology, and in the self help world that so many of us are so used to being a part of, the strategy that we had for dealing with that fog on the inside of the windscreen was first of all, we were kind of oblivious that it was on the inside. Seems to me, we almost treated it as though Well, I guess the best way to say it is we, we treated it as though it was something we could control. And that it wasn’t something that was created. Just by the very nature of being in this vehicle of having a vehicle to move through life.

We treat that fog as though it’s a problem, like I say and and like something we can control. But the thing is that that fog is always there. And it’s not something we can control. And like I say it can be thinner or thicker at different times, depending on atmospheric conditions, nothing to do with us.

That fog represents our thinking, it represents Thought. And the reason I say that this is such a powerful thing to see. And that once we see this, it really does change everything. That’s because in the past, in the old paradigm of psychology, what we would do is really wrestle with that fog that’s on the inside of the windscreen. And that wrestling is exhausting, because the fog is there. It is its own energy. It’s there of its own volition. And like I say it’s thicker. Sometimes it’s thinner at other times, at times, sometimes it seems like it can go away entirely.

But other times, it seems like it’s just really thick. And we’ve got the defogger on, and we’re blowing air at it. And maybe we’ve got one of those little sponge things or a rag. And we’re trying to wipe on the inside of the windscreen to get the fog to go away. And maybe it does for a little while on one area. But then when we’re focused on another area, it comes back on the first area that we were working on. And that wrestling match that we’re having that energy that we’re expending trying to control the depth and the thickness of the fog on the inside of the windscreen really does take up a lot of our energy a lot of our time.

And it’s fruitless in a way. Because that fog is going to show up now and again.In the case of a human being, it’s kind of with us all the time, our thinking. And it’s really not a problem. So let’s imagine that it’s a kind of fog that is on the inside of the windscreen, and it’s irritating. But it’s not preventing us from driving the vehicle, we can still drive, we can see the road, it’s safe to do so. And we can move forward in our lives. When we recognize that the fog for what it is, that it’s just there. It’s not something we need to control or maneuver or manage in any way that and that actually, and this is the one of the magic points about it.

When we leave the fog completely alone, it tends to get thinner on its own. So it will almost disappear. And our view through the windscreen becomes as clear as it can ever possibly be. But like I said when we wrestle with it when we try to control it and manage it, that’s when it fights back in a way and gets thicker and heavier and makes it more difficult for us to move through life.

What happens when we recognize that the fog is just going to be there and we relax about that?First of all, there’s a couple things going on. One is that we can see or understand that the vehicle that we’re in, is perfectly fine as it is, it works. It’s in great working order. And the fact that the fog is there is not a problem. It’s in this kind of magical metaphorical fog, it’s not impeding our view of the world. And our battle with it, in the past, was the thing that was causing us the most stress and discomfort, and believing that the fog is an impediment to us, living our lives and moving our vehicle through the world, is the thing that really got in our way the most.

When we see the fog for what it is, for its ever presentness, it’s a gift, this is where the metaphor kind of breaks down a little bit. But, you know, our thinking is a gift, it’s a creative gift. And without it, we wouldn’t be able to have the experience of life that we have. So recognizing that, and recognizing that we don’t need to fight with the fog on the inside of the windscreen are two really big steps toward finding peace of mind.

Recognizing that this experience of life is on the inside of us, just like the little fog is on the inside of the vehicle. So the world out there beyond the windscreen is simply being itself and doing itself, our experience of that world is affected by the thickness or thinness, the placement of the fog on the inside of the windscreen, and we can’t have an experience of life without that windscreen being there. It’s the thing that enables us to see the road to see where we’re traveling, and that kind of thing. So without it, we can’t have this experience of life.

That’s why the fog and the thinking are gifts.All of this might sound fairly simple, this metaphor about the vehicle and the fog and the wind and the windshield. But it really is that simple. And the more and more that that we begin to see where our experience of life is coming from, that it’s coming from within us and that and that it’s always coloring what we see. Like I say that’s when we stop wrestling with the fog, that’s when it can. I guess we could say that things become lighter in the vehicle. There’s not so much stress and anxiety and a lack of peace of mind. Because we understand that we’re not having to wrestle with the outside world and make things different.

I wonder where the metaphor is for the wisdom that’s carrying us through life?That’s the operation of the vehicle. So this vehicle that we’re in, which is the thing that is taking us through life has a magic GPS, it has an inner compass that’s installed into the vehicle. For every single person, there isn’t anyone who is without that inner compass or GPS. And it can guide us on the road, when we stop thinking that our job is to wrestle with the fog, and make the fog go away, and be upset about the thickness of the fog. And the placement of the fog, when we relax and understand that this GPS is on board. And it’s always there.

All we have to do is listen for it, it will guide us. That is the universal wisdom that is installed with every single person who’s ever been and whoever will be, that is our connection to two universal wisdom to the innate well being that is within us. I think that’s a really important part of this metaphor is to see that there’s an alternative to being upset about the fog that’s on the inside of the windscreen, that what we can do instead is turn our attention to the inner GPS that’s within us. And it will guide us along the road.

How do we do that? Well, it’s innate within you. So the way that you pay attention to your GPS is going to be unique to you as well. And I could give you some examples of the way that I pay attention to my GPS, and maybe I’ll give you one quick one just for fun.

I think it was Jack Pransky who I first heard talking about the traffic light metaphor, about letting our innate wisdom guide us. So the metaphor is that within us, there’s this red, yellow, green light system kind of indicators, I guess would be a better word. And when we’re making decisions, and when we are trying to find our way in life, we can feel within us when our body reacts to something with either a red, yellow, or green light.

I really enjoy playing with and paying attention to this part of the inner GPS, in big ways and small.In big ways, when we have really big decisions to make, it can be a little bit harder, especially at the beginning, to be able to discern what kind of a light am I getting? Is my body giving me a red light saying no, that I shouldn’t take this next step? Or is it giving me a green light? Or is it somewhere in the middle?

What I do, or what I try to do in my day to day life, is really pay attention to that traffic light system, even when it comes to small things. Like if I’m out and about and I’m wanting to run an errand, and I’ll all wonder about, will a certain store, do they have the thing in stock that I’m looking for? Maybe they were out of it last week. And they said they were going to get it back in. And so as I’m walking along the street, I think oh, I could pop into that store and pick up that thing. And then I wonder is it there? Have they received it yet?

I’ll just play with my inner compass, my inner traffic light and see what kind of a light I get; red, yellow or green. And then I’ll probably go into the store and just see what happens. See if it matches the feeling that I got about the traffic light. And what I’m finding is happening is the more that I play with that, the more that I rely on my inner GPS/Traffic Light and the more that I use it in small instances, as they can be as small as we want, the more I’m getting a real attunement for those the feelings in my body, the red, yellow and green feelings.

I’m becoming much more clear when I get one of those certain lights, and what that feels like within me. So that’s been really fun to play with. Then what happens is, when I have bigger decisions to make, things that feel like there’s more at stake, and maybe there’s just more risk involved more, I’m a little more fraught, I’ve got more thinking about whatever the decision is, or the circumstance. Because I’ve practiced, I’m practicing, and I’m building up my connection to that inner GPS / traffic light, it’s easier to find that feeling when I have a bigger decision that’s going on.

I wouldn’t necessarily start out practicing this on things like a decision about a house purchase, or a humongous job change.

Practicing it on smaller things, really builds up that muscle, that connection that we have to this inner GPS that’s built in that factory installed in all of us in all of our vehicles.

One of the nice things that I find about really being attuned to our inner GPS, is that I can be so much more relaxed about decision making. In the past, when I had to make decisions about anything, the only place I had to go to was into my mind into my thinking.

I would think about pros and cons. And if I make this decision, maybe this will happen. But if I make it, maybe that will happen. So that’s something to consider. And my thinking would just become more and more and more sped up, especially if the decision was large. I would find myself circling around and changing my mind, making a decision, and then my mind would get chatty, so then I would change it and do and decide the opposite thing, or something like that.

Whereas now, when I feel that green light go on, I trust it, I know exactly what’s happening. Even if I get a red light, or perhaps I should say, especially if I get a red light, about something, and it’s something I really want to do, it’s a decision that mentally I would have agreed to. But then I get the feeling in my body of a red light. I’ve really learned to trust that to not second guess it.

Of course, at the beginning, I did. I would second guess it. I had many instances where I did that. But that taught me as well. So I would make a decision going against the feeling I had in my body of a red light. And then down the road, I would realize, Oh, of course my inner GPS was right. I shouldn’t I shouldn’t have done this, or this was not quite the right choice. I should have chosen the other thing, whatever it was. So it’s all a learning experience.

I really appreciate that, about this little traffic light metaphor. And as I’ve been recording this episode, I’ve realized that it really fit in nicely with the windscreen metaphor that I that I that came into my mind a week or so ago. So I hope that’s been helpful for you.

If you have any questions, please let me know if anything hasn’t been clear. Alexandraamore.com/questions. You can fill out the form there and I will answer your question on a future episode you can be anonymous if you’d like that’s fine too.

I think that’s it for me right now. I hope you’re having a great day and I will talk to you again soon. Take care. Bye.

Featured image photo by Cole Freeman on Unsplash

The post The Windshield of Life appeared first on Alexandra Amor Books & Courses.

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Life has an unerring knack for presenting us with challenges and opportunities for change. Dr. Linda Pettit explores our innate intuitive nature and how we can use that to help us navigate the curves that life brings to us.

Dr. Linda Sandel Pettit is a distinguished author known for her insightful work, including her acclaimed memoir, Leaning into Cuves: Trusting the Wild, Intuitive Way of Love.

With over five decades dedicated to writing, four decades immersed in counseling psychology, and two decades serving as a spiritual mentor, Dr. Linda brings a wealth of experience and expertise to her practice as a speaker, writer and mentor.

Unafraid to delve into divine wisdom, deep feminine knowing, and intuition, Dr. Linda empowers her clients to tap into their innermost truths. Through her guidance, she inspires and facilitates the release of pure love, allowing individuals to express their authentic selves fully.

You can find Linda Pettit at LindaSandelPettit.com and on Instagram at lindasandelpettit.

Click the image below to learn about the Unbroken Community and join the waitlist.

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Show Notes

• Discovering that anxiety is thought created
• What if being calm and in a good feeling is how we’re meant to exist?
• The only thing that ever gets in the way of love is our thinking
• Using self-reporting instruments to gauge how clients were being helped by the Three Principles understanding
• How our intuitive knowing is a life raft for us
• How mystical experiences are the norm or all of us
• Examples of listening to intuitive knowing and letting it guide us
• Why waiting for the moving parts of life to align is important

Resources Mentioned in this Episode

• Linda’s book Leaning Into Curves
• Book: The Butterfly Effect by Andy Andrews

Transcript of Interview with Dr. Linda PettitAlexandra: Dr. Linda Sandel Pettit, welcome to Unbroken.

Linda: Thank you. Good to be here.

Alexandra: It’s lovely to have you here. So why don’t we begin with a bit of your background?

Why don’t you tell us who you are and when you came across the Three Principles?Linda: I have kind of an interesting background. I started out in journalism and public relations. And then I found my way into the helping professions. I was a counseling psychologist for 30 some, 35 years. And now I do speaking, and writing and mentoring.

I came across the Three Principles about what was exactly 21 years ago. So when I met my husband, who many know in the Three Principles world, Dr. Bill Pettit, he’s a psychiatrist. And he had been mentored by Sydney Banks, the man who shared the principles originally. Or boy, even at that point, I think it had been close to 20 years. And so I got introduced through Bill.

Syd was still alive then so he would call our home just about every other weekend. And we would put him on speakerphone and he would teach, share with us. He was very interested in mentoring both of us; Bill as a psychiatrist to me as a psychologist in the understanding.

I will say, it wasn’t an easy immediate sell for me.

Alexandra: That was my next question. Tell us about that.Linda: Bill should be the one that it was a pretty, I believe, at one point, as I recall it, it was actually in an airport. We were waiting for a flight and I got so triggered that I said to him, “If you ever mentioned Sydney Banks, again, we are getting a divorce.”

Just to give your listeners, in case they struggle with the understanding, I certainly know that. And in a way, interestingly, it was kind of incremental. Sometimes I would struggle with it. And sometimes I wouldn’t. Because I knew right from the start that there was something there. And I could see that it was settling me so that I was having less and less anxiety.

Then as I began to see that anxiety was entirely thought created. That was really beautiful. It wasn’t something that just parked on me, sat on my head, and I was completely powerless over it. That was my, my primary struggle, I would say, was with being anxious. I’d been pretty anxious all my life.

From the time of being a small child, even to the point of having some degree of obsessive compulsive behaviors, but not a full blown disorder where I had rituals and things. Although I was a counter; I used counting to calm myself, but more just a general, anxious approach to the world and a tendency to worry.

I could see that that was settling down. Although I don’t know that I could have told you exactly why. But it was kind of like, I used to think of it this way that I lived from a place of anxiety. And occasionally, maybe 20% of the time, I would stretch into these areas where I wouldn’t feel anxious, or I wouldn’t feel worried. And I would wonder about that. Where to go? How did that happen? I’m feeling pretty good right now.

Then I would snap back into that place of being anxious. As I started to get insight to how powerful thought was, and how thought was creating the experience of being anxious what I gradually felt over a number of years was that it was like, it wasn’t that I didn’t never get anxious again. But the positions reversed. So 80% of the time, I was pretty calm. And 20% of the time, I might stretch into those zones again, where I felt really anxious or worried.

But I knew what was happening. I knew I was innocently using the power of thought to create this experience that was manifesting in my body in the state that I called anxiety. And so gradually I was less and less worried and less and less anxious to the point now where I just really don’t experience it very much more. If I do it’s a momentary fleeting thing and then I come back to myself.

Alexandra: As a psychologist, did you have times when you were helping others about anxiety?Linda: Yes, really my whole practice was about people who were having a lot of anxiety or depression. I’d always done a lot of work with people in transition who had had some kind of something happen in their lives that interrupted life as they knew it. And they were transitioning to some new understanding and, and along with that was coming this experience of feeling lost or anxious or depressed.

But I was committed to a thought that I had. And the thought was that I was not going to share this understanding professionally, until I really saw it personally. And so I didn’t, even though I was very aware of it and was studying it and learning about it from Bill and from Syd and others in the Three Principles world, I didn’t share it professionally for several years. And then I had an experience, which I actually talked about in my new book.

It was really one of those funny synchronistic experiences where I was kind of ticked off at bill, we, you know, we were newlyweds, and we were struggling a little bit with adjustment. We’re very different people. He’s very extroverted and outgoing. And I just tend to be by my nature, really more quiet, slower tempo. And so we were having some struggles, and I stomped downstairs to my office in a full blown, you know, like, what a jerky is kind of moment, and sat down at my desk.

I reached in for a financial file to do some work on on our finances, because I manage those and I opened the file. And I don’t know how this got there. But on the top of this particular file was an excerpt from the book, The Tao of Pooh by Benjamin Hoff. And I remember thinking, how did that get there? Because I don’t like that book. I had read it. And I didn’t think much of it, which is really in itself pretty interesting. But I read the excerpt and it said, there was a conversation between two of the Pooh characters.

One of them is saying, “Oh, that Winnie the Pooh, he’s just the sweetest, kindest, most loving, tender wise knowing being.”

And the other one says, “Oh, yeah, he is all of that. And it’s just too bad that he’s the exception to the rule.”

And the other one says, “You know, that might be, but what if he’s the rule in action?”

I had this moment, Alexandra, where it was like an insight. And I just thought, what if Bill, because he’s so calm, and he’s so compassionate, and he just rolls with things, and he doesn’t get really upset with me, just kind of stays with me when I’m in these little snippets.

What if he’s not the exception to the rule? What if he’s the rule in action? What if that’s the way we’re all meant to be? In that moment, I became a student. I thought, you know, what if? What if I don’t have to live with the level of anxiety that I do? What if I don’t have to live with a level of reactivity and drama that I sometimes do? I wasn’t out of control and we never yelled, we never had big, awful arguments or anything. But I walked around more than I wanted to in a feeling of being very stirred up inside.

He had been trying to share the Three Principles. And he will tell you now that he realizes that he was probably trying to be a teacher to someone who wasn’t a student. And so he had a role and what happened, but when I had said to him, finally, you just need to back off, he did back off. And I think when he backed off, and I had the ability to just sort of observe a little bit more without feeling pressured to be different or to change. I just created a space.

And then I found that that excerpt from Hoff’s book and it just became real clear to me that this could be the answer I’ve actually been searching for. The other thing that I think was a factor is that at the time, so this was 22. We’ve got married in 2003 so this was 21 years ago, or 20 to 21 years ago, I think the understanding was being taught primarily as a psychological understanding. And as a psychologist, I was struggling to see:

How is this different from other cognitive therapies? I was already a student of cognitive therapies and used them in my practice. And I truly didn’t see, I saw glimmers, but not the whole picture, how this was very much different. And what happened for me is that as the spiritual understanding of them fully unfolded, and I began to see, oh, this is the answer to love. This is the answer to how I can stay connected to love.

The only thing that ever gets in the way of love is my thinking.I’m never severed from it. All of the prior spiritual understandings, and my psychological understanding came together. And that’s when I really started progressing in understanding and began to share it in my practice. And in case there are other helping professionals who might listen to this, when I started sharing it in my practice, I talked with Syd and I said, “I think I want to do this. But I’m not sure that I know how to do it.”

And that is kind of a whole story to what he said, but what he came to was, well, if you’re gonna give this a go and share it purely, don’t try to mix it with other things, just share it purely and see what happens. But, Alexandra, I was so fearful that I wouldn’t be doing my job. Because it was so much less directive than other things. There were no rituals, there were no things people had to do that I decided I would measure every client so that I had proof that they were getting better or not. And I had done that somewhat. But I really started to do it.

I started to do some very high quality instruments, self report instruments, but still well researched, and had every client fill them out every third session. And somewhere that data is buried somewhere, it may have been destroyed, because it was so long ago.

I actually started to get very good data that people were getting better, significantly faster. I could sense that I could see it anecdotally. But I also had the data to back it up to the point that actually I had insurance companies, because mostly in mental health then and I think still now a lot of payment comes through third party payers in the United States. I would have insurance companies call me up and say, How are you producing these results?

Alexandra: Wow. That’s amazing.

Linda: So the results sort of hooked me it was kind of like, Oh, okay.

Alexandra: There’s someone here.

Linda: And I never looked back from that point. I ran a solely Three Principles based practice for a very long time.

Alexandra: I love hearing that. That’s great. I didn’t know any of that. That’s lovely.

Along those lines, I wanted to talk about transformative change today. And one of the things on this is one of the topics that you speak about and on your speakers page. In the section for mastering transformative change you talk about intuitive knowing and I love this phrase being our life raft.

Could you talk about intuitive knowing being a life raft?Linda: Yes. So where the principles point is, is that we are all sourced in this formless energy. You could call it many names; I like to call it love, or wisdom or intuitive knowing. It’s a source that as I see it is evolving. It’s creating. It’s conscious, it’s aware, it’s moving through us. We are made of it. We are one of the forms of it.

One of the forms that it takes in us is thought. So I literally see myself as being pulsed through with thought. But I also see myself as been having been given the gift of thought to use, however I choose to. I have this incredible power with thought to create anything out of any experience or circumstance that’s in front of me. And yet I also see that there is a divine aspect to it, that of always moving in the direction of love, always moving in the direction of higher evolution, higher consciousness, more common sense, more peace, more joy, more brilliance.

If we’re aligned with that, if our thinking and divine thinking is aligned, then life is beautiful, even the most difficult experiences in life, and have their own beauty. And so I think about now, and so many of us feel so adrift, I was talking to a woman yesterday who is a developmental psychologist, and she was saying to me parents, she’s a young woman, and she’s got young children. She said, parents right now are feeling very adrift. They don’t know how to a parent.

We’re coming out of this generation where, and in this therapeutic environment that says that what parents did many years ago was was terribly traumatic. And most of us were raised with a lot of trauma and a lot of challenge and we’re all in therapy dealing with that.

And now, as parents, we’re all wondering, okay, how do we do it? We don’t want to do what was done to us. We don’t know what to do want to do it our parents to do us. But how do you do this? How do you do it when you’re dealing with behavior. And you’re dealing with a world that feels so chaotic. And you’re dealing with circumstances that our parents didn’t have to deal with.

I have a daughter who’s going to be 40 this year, who has two young children. And not long ago, she had her little little guys were locked down in their school, because there was an active shooter near the campus. Now, it wasn’t, thankfully was not a terribly dangerous situation. But the children did go through an event where they were locked in a room and knew that someone was outside the school with a gun. And so my daughter had to had to process that with her kids, and she has to process safety issues with her kids that I didn’t have to deal with.

That’s just one example, people feel right now very adrift and very uncertain. And it feels like a lot of structures that held held my generation or the generation in front of me, and maybe the one right after me into place have crumbled. And they’re looking for answers. And what if the answers are always inside of us? What if the answers are always in our intuitive knowing?

What if all we have to do is go inside and look beyond our fearful thinking and our egoic thinking, and we will always find an answer there? I trust that. I absolutely trust that in my life. But part of why I trusted is because I tested it. As I wrote my book, Leaning Into Curves, as I look back on a lot of experiences, I really saw that what at the time, I thought were sort of mystical experiences that were special to me. Especially because I’m a woman. Women are supposed to be more intuitive. I now look at that and I just laugh. It’s like no, no, wasn’t anything special about that. That’s how life works. That’s how love works.

I document in the book that when I met both of my husbands it actually happened both times. The moment I met them, something clicked inside of me. And I knew in both situations that I was meant to have long term relationships with both men.

Now with my first husband that was really interesting because he was a Roman Catholic priest. And was actively practicing at the time and he was also going into alcoholism treatment the next morning, the night I met him. He was 20 years older than I so he was an unlikely soulmate Believe me. But I knew because of what I say is that the eyes of love flew wide open and in that instant, and I saw possibility. I saw something that could be created and I knew it.

Same thing with Bill my my current husband. The day I met him there was something that happened, and also a couple synchronicities that happen that I won’t go into right at this moment. But that made me pay attention. And I thought, there’s something here. I remember the thought, which I describe in the book, I am meant to have a personal or professional relationship with this man, I just don’t know which, but that we are going to be connected going forward was really clear to me.

Along the way, in both situations there’s always been this sense that if I just get quiet, and if I can find my way to a quiet feeling of lovingness. If I ask, I will get all the information I need to know what to do next. I know that that’s absolutely 100% true for all of us that we are sourced in love, are made of love, love is intuitively guiding us. And if we can remember that more and more and more and little, little by little by little, and look for that, then all these things that look so big and so problematic, and so complex and conflicted. We’ll find our way through them was one of the things that actually motivated me to write the book, I was already writing it.

I had a number of reasons for writing it. But one of the things that really caused my own motivation to leave for leap forward was that I ran across two articles. One was in The New York Times, and one was in The Washington Post. So these are pretty big newspapers in the United States. And one of them was an article about therapists, and how therapists were being asked to integrate the intuitive arts into their therapy practices.

So this there, this reporter was interviewing therapists who were saying, Oh, my gosh, I’m being asked to to help people figure out oracle cards and shamanistic practices and psychic visits. And I don’t know anything about those things. Or, or I do know a lot about those things. I’m really excited about the fact that my clients are bringing these things up. Because what I read was, Oh, my clients are wanting to know about the spiritual dimension of life.

The part of life that that unfortunately and dangerously, we have dismissed as woowoo or as unscientific and impractical. And so people were at least going into their therapists and saying, You know what, I think there’s something here. I think there’s something in the spiritual stuff.

I think there’s something in this intuitive stuff for me; we need to talk about this. So it was coming from the ground up that therapists were being asked to address the spiritual and the intuitive, which I see is one in the same thing.

The other article, which was even more fascinating, I’m not sure which paper was in but someone had decided had somehow gotten wind of the fact that psychics across the country during the pandemic were busier than ever. And so they sent a team of reporters out and sure enough all across the country. They’re they’re dealing with psychics of all kinds; clairvoyance, clairaudience, card readers, crystal ball gazers, everything, and they’re all saying the same thing. Oh, my gosh, we can barely take more clientele, because we are so busy.

I read that and thought, oh, isn’t that interesting that if you don’t, and I’m not discrediting those arts, there’s no doubt. Can we all have access to intuition? And there are many spiritually evolved people who have very special gifts in that area, who can be really helpful to us. But the reality is, the truth is, the deep absolute truth is that that psychic knowing, that intuitive knowing that wisdom is inside all of us.

That was a beautiful thing that I had seen with the Three Principles understanding that yes, we are guided, yes, there is Mind behind life. It is coming through us through the divine thought system. And all we have to do is turn our attention to it and it’s right there. It’s just right there. And it always has the next right answer.

All I can say is that’s why I wrote my book is because my life has been proof of that. And the book is a set of stories about how that came through to me and how that affected my life decisions, including some really, really big difficult experiences. So that’s why I see coming back to your question. That’s why I see. intuitive knowing is a life raft is it’s, it’s cheap.

It’s inside. It just takes getting a little quiet. Just takes getting into a little bit of a beautiful feeling. Takes trusting it, asking for it. And it’s right there.

Alexandra: Could you give us an example from the story when intuition was your life raft? Linda: Actually, I thought of one that wasn’t from the book. Let me see which one from the book that I would want to talk about. Oh, I there’s one that comes to mind.

When my first husband, my late husband and I, we had been married a number of years, and we wanted to go live in West Virginia. A pathway opened up for me to go to doctoral school in West Virginia. We had no money. How many times do people come to me and they say, I want to do XYZ. But I have no money. I hate my job. I want to do something different. But I have no money. You hear that a lot.

One of the questions people hear out there in the coaching world is if you weren’t worried about money, what would you do? And people will have these ideas. But money is the obstacle or money is the block. And we didn’t have any money and doctoral school was expensive.

I talked to my mentor, and this is described in the book, his name was Bob and I said, Bob I, and how I even got to him. I did not go in with a question about my life. I actually went in with a question about my daughter and are having some struggles. She has temper tantrums. And I’m not exactly sure how to deal with it. Bob had said to me, I don’t really think this is about Laura’s temper tantrums, I think this is about you not paying attention to something that’s coming up in you that wants to assert its independence, that wants you to assert your independence.

I thought about that, and I came back to him. And I said, Yeah, I really want to do something new with my life. I want to go to doctoral school in psychology. I said, Well, we don’t have the money. And he said, what’s the first step? And I said, Well, the first step is to take the Graduate Record Exam. So how much does that cost? So I don’t know 75 bucks. Have you got 75 bucks? Yeah. Then you got money to go to got doctoral school, then go take the first step. So I did.

But then I got admitted. And my late husband, Jim and I needed to move to West Virginia to where I’d gotten admitted, didn’t have any money. We went looking for housing, and couldn’t find housing, finally did find housing, put a security deposit on it. But really didn’t have money to pay for anything beyond the security deposit or to pay for school.

The training director where I had gotten admitted said, I’ll find you a teaching job. And then Jim started looking for jobs down in West Virginia. We started to do what made sense to do. But the moment came for us to take the apartment that we had found. And we still didn’t have funding for my doctoral program, Jim still didn’t have a job. We were facing a moment of decision. And we both went inside intuitively, kind of sat together and said, Let’s just really consider this because this is our make or break moment. Either we choose it, or we don’t. We have to we have to choose.

We both came out of that and said, Well, what came to you? And we said to each other, we got green lights. We got to go ahead. But how? Well, we’d paid for the security deposit and the first month’s rent, we had that covered. And a plan clicked into place where Jim would stay at his job up in Toledo, Ohio, and I would go down to West Virginia and occupy the new space. So we found a way to get through the next couple of months. I was living down there. He was living up in Ohio, commuting back and forth. So we got those two months covered.

But then we came to the second point. I’m supposed to start school on Monday. It’s Wednesday, the week before I still don’t have a job, the university still hasn’t been able to find me a teaching position. Jim still doesn’t have a job. So we’re on the phone together. What do we do? Do we abort? Do we say we’ve got to stop? And again, we listened within and, and both of us just said green light, clear green light. Jim went into his employer and said, Okay, I am following through my two weeks notice is up on Friday, I will be leaving and going down to West Virginia. He came down to West Virginia on Friday.

Friday morning, I got a call from the director of training at West Virginia University and he said, I think I found you a job. I want you to go talk to this woman who’s in another department, ed psych. And I went and talked to her and bottom line, I got a teaching job that paid my entire way through doctoral school. I ended up with not a dime of debt. I taught my butt off. I worked really hard.

What was really interesting is: Jim came down, and the following Monday, back to back, it was almost like because he had made the decision. And we had committed back to back three calls that offered him jobs in West Virginia. And by the end of that first week, he was gainfully employed. There’s a movie, it’s one of the Crocodile Dundee movies, there’s a place where Harrison Ford is being chased by the bad guys. And he comes to a big crevasse, a huge canyon. And his spiritual teacher is on the other side.Hecan’t figure out how to get to the other side. And the spiritual teacher says jump.

As soon as you jump, the bridge will appear. That’s what happens. He jumps and the bridge shows up and he gets across and then the bridge disappears. And the bad guys can’t chase him. That’s what happened was that it took jumping. And then the bridge appeared. And it took trusting that intuitive knowing and and the life raft just showed up. And we were off on an entirely new chapter of life.

I’ll tell you a really little story about that. This is not in the book. After my first husband died, suddenly in an automobile accident on Christmas Eve, about two weeks later, I was in a really bad state as anyone who’s known a sudden bereavement that comes really shocking. It’s a big challenge to the system. And I was beside myself with anxiety; I was agitated, and I was walking around the house just not able to sit still. I couldn’t think straight, and having a really difficult time. I I remember being so overwhelmed, I thought I’m going to crawl out of my skin, this is going to kill me, my heart is going to explode, I’m in such a bad place.

I asked for help. I said, God, you gotta help me because I don’t know how to get through this. And all of a sudden, I heard this voice in my head, like a very gentle patient, I don’t even know androgynous sort of voice that said, “Linda, go write your thank you notes.” And I thought, “Go write my thank you notes?” And I thought, well, that is a task that I have to get done.

So I went over and I sat and and my late husband had been a missionary priest for 20 years and he had connections all around the world. And I had gotten scores of emails from people this was when email was brand new, who had known him saying what a wonderful man he was. While going through all those notes, going through all the bereavement cards I’d gotten my heart just kept getting filled up over and over and over again. I realized as I was sitting there, wow, I’m calm again. I’ve come back to myself.

Now if I wrote a book on grief, and I said, here’s a to do. When you feel really anxious and overwhelmed in your bereavement, write your thank you notes. I think I would highly discredit myself. But that was a common sense, intuitive knowing that came in that moment that saved me. It spared me tremendous pain and tremendous difficulty and brought me back to myself.

I could document dozens of moments where my journey through grief was all about that, that in the moment, there would just be an insight that got me through the next thing, and I began to really trust that.

Alexandra: Oh, that’s lovely. So beautiful. Thank you for sharing those stories. I really enjoyed that.

Just before we start to wrap up, I’d love to ask you about what about when things go wrong? We trust a feeling I guess is what I mean. Have you encountered that at all?

What about if we trust something, and it doesn’t turn out? Linda: Absolutely. I think that there are lots of different ways I could come at explaining what I see about that. But one of them is that sometimes, something that originally looks like, oh, that didn’t turn out the way I expected it to, or I thought it should or could, in the long run proves to be the better choice. And we see with the value of elapsed time. Oh, that was perfect.

There’s a beautiful book out right now that people are talking about called The Butterfly Effect. It’s very simple little book that really talks about that beautifully that we just don’t know how in the grand scheme of things. That certain answers that we get that seem counterintuitive, actually are intuitively right.

And then sometimes I think there’s a timing delay. I’ve had many times when I’ve asked for help, and it seems like nothing happened. And I once heard, a woman named Mary Webb Martin, she was actually presenting alongside Sydney Banks at the last, I think it was the last event I heard Syd speak at, she shared this metaphor. And she said, sometimes I think life is like your she said, I’m a sailor, I’ll get out on the water. And my sails have caught the wind. I’m just skating along enjoying it.

Then the wind dies down. And there’s nothing, and I don’t have a motor. And so I can’t go anywhere, I’m just really feeling stuck. But all I have to do is have faith that the winds will pick up and when the winds pick up, I’ll be able to move again in in a certain direction. And Syd said that’s a really beautiful metaphor. Because there are a lot of moving parts to life. There are a lot of moving parts to life. And there’s a lot that goes on behind the scenes that we don’t always know about.

We don’t appreciate the mystery of that. But sometimes we just have to wait for the moving parts to align. And there’s a quote. He says, When you accept the mystery, you join the mystery. And so when I have moments like that, that it feels like something that I thought I was being intuitively guided toward, didn’t work doesn’t work out, or it doesn’t work out on a timetable that I expect it. I’ve just come to know that there’s something bigger afoot and to trust the mystery of that.

Alexandra: That sailing metaphor, that’s one I’ve used on myself as well that I remember reading a book about a fellow sailing from here, Vancouver Island, to Hawaii, and how inevitably, you usually get to a space in the Pacific Ocean where the wind completely goes and you can’t turn on the motor because you don’t have enough petrol to get to Hawaii. So you just have to wait it out. And, of course, just like you said, inevitably, the wind does pick up again. So yeah, I love that.

Linda: Sometimes it takes you in a new, better direction. Just because you’ve been committed to a change in direction. The change happens.

Alexandra: Yeah, absolutely. Well, this has been such a pleasure, Linda, thank you so much for talking to me today.

Your new book is called Leaning Into Curves. And it’s available everywhere, I’m assuming online.Linda: Ebook, paperback and hardback. And the audio book is forthcoming. I’m going to be recording that myself. So it should be available pretty soon.

Alexandra: I will put links in the show notes so that people can can find that as well.

Is there anything we haven’t touched on that you’d like to share today before we wrap up?Linda: I think we started to talk about transformative change. I love working with people who are going through transformative change and transformative change is not the kind of change that most of us go through, we change our hairstyle. It’s usually some life event critically disrupts the path we’ve been on; could be a job, change a job loss or loss of someone in our life, business disruption could be anything.

I love working with people who are going through transformative change, big change. And in the therapeutic community right now, there’s a lot of focus on trauma informed therapy. But one of the things that’s not being talked about enough is, I think, is that many, many people experience huge amounts of post traumatic growth. They actually not only return to their baseline functioning, they exceed it.

The transformative experience becomes a spiritual portal for transcendent spiritual growth. So what I found in working with people is that one of the things that we need to do is allow space for grief. We need to allow space to mourn and embrace the embodiment you talked about being in a body, being in a physical life and having to deal with sometimes the big context sport of life.

And then I think a big step in that is forgiving life, that we got handed tough circumstances to deal with forgiving life and forgiving ourselves in thinking that we weren’t big enough to rise to the challenge. Because the spiritual nature that we have is always capable of rising to that challenge. And then if we ask for help, and listen, there will always be the intuitive knowing the desires that point us in new directions. And then from that point, it’s just about embracing the desire and consciously creating from that desire.

Alexandra: Lovely, beautiful, thank you.

Where can we find out more about you and your work?Linda: Probably the easiest place and thank you for asking. You’ve been such a wonderful, thoughtful, gentle podcast host.

My website. LindaSandelPettit.com

Alexandra: I will put a link to that as well in the show notes. Well, thank you so much, Linda. It’s been such a pleasure.

Linda: It has been. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me.

Alexandra: Oh, my pleasure. Take care. Bye bye bye.

Featured image photo by Jesse Bowser on Unsplash

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When we strive for perfection are we doing ourselves a favour or adding unwanted stress into our lives? When it comes to eating well and resolving an overeating habit, I think embracing the beautiful messiness of life is much more helpful.

Click the image below to learn more about the Unbroken Community.

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Show Notes:

• The top 3 ways perfection is a mistake
• How needing to be perfect increases the amount of thinking we’re dealing with
• Why perfection is boring
• How important the messiness of life is
• On the unkindness of perfection

Transcript of EpisodeHello explorers and welcome to episode 56 of Unbroken. I’m Alexandra Amor. I’m here today to talk about perfection, and how it’s a mistake.

Before I jump into that I wanted to mention, in case you didn’t hear me last week, that I’ve put together a page of information about a community I’m starting, called the Unbroken Community.

You can join a join up for the waitlist for that community at:

AlexandraAmor.com/community

I want to find out if there’s interest in this sort of thing. So there’s a whole bunch of information on that page that I just mentioned, about what the community will look like, when the group coaching calls that we’ll have, the pricing and all the other details about what’s involved, whether it’s a good fit for you, there’s information there about that, and whether it isn’t.

I think it’s always really important in these situations to make it clear what the offering is, and one of the ways to do that is to make it clear that this might not be a good fit for you. If so, you’ll see a little list of bullet points about that as well. So lots of information there.

Check it out: AlexandraAmor.com/community if you’re interested in connecting with me, connecting with others who are wanting to resolve unwanted habits, like overeating, but it could be any kind of unwanted habit as well. Because as I said last week, they all have the same root cause. So yeah, check that out.

All right, so now let’s talk about perfection. In the last few weeks, since I had my coaching call with Tanya Elfersy \that you can listen to on episode 53.

As I said, a couple of weeks ago, my eating habits have been way better. I’m so grateful for that. And I’m really happy because it feels like I turned a corner. I had had more insights, learned some more stuff as we do. It’s an ongoing journey. It’s never over is it really? I think as long as we’re alive, we’re going to be continuing to learn.

Since then, since that corner that I turned, I’ve noticed some more some thinking and more thinking that I’m comfortable with about perfection about holding myself to a standard when it comes to eating that feels a little bit perfectionist. It feels a little bit like holding an elastic really tight, you know that feeling? I know from personal experience that when I hold that elastic really tight, and really hold myself to a standard of perfection, that eventually the elastic snaps and I dive into eating badly.

So what I wanted to do today was explore that a little bit, explore that feeling of wanting to be perfect, and how it can become a bit toxic in and of itself. And that’s why the title of this episode is perfection is a mistake.

What I’m going to outline is three ways that I thought of that perfection is a mistake, ways that it can become toxic. I’m sure there are many more than this. But these are the three that came top of mind as I was preparing for this episode. So here we go.

Number one, perfection really gets us into our thinking.This was the first sign for me that I was leaning towards wanting to be perfect was that my thinking becomes a bit revved up. In other words, I noticed that I’m having lots of thinking about food and about what I’m eating and how I’m doing. On both ends of the spectrum notice that actually to kind of congratulating myself on one end, and feeling good about how I’m eating, which is not the end of the world, that’s not terrible.

But the problem is that then the pendulum does tend to swing to the other side as well. And it any kind of little, not any kind, actually. But there are some foods that I might want to eat that where my thinking gets more revved up than with other foods. So for example, I had a couple of glasses of wine on the weekend that just passed.

That’s something that can really trigger my perfectionistic thinking.What happens, I think, when we get into having a lot of thinking about things like this, and about trying to be perfect, is that it can be a little bit like a dog chasing its tail. There’s no way to be perfect. And this is why aiming for perfection is a mistake. And if we feel or maybe I should say, if our thinking believes that we should be perfect, that we are obligated to be perfect all the time about whatever the issue is, in this case, it’s food, then that can become its own kind of problem.

And it can contribute to or add itself to all the other thinking that we have about these kinds of issues. Now, I do want to do a little sidebar here and say that, as someone who’s had this unwanted overeating habit for 30 years, and has tried so hard to fix it prior to finding the Three Principles, with self help and willpower and rules and all that things.And maybe you are too.

I’m just inclined to have a lot of thinking about food. I can observe friends when we’re out for dinner, or when I’m in situations where I’m meeting with other people. And maybe, you know, maybe it’s not true, I can’t tell what other people are thinking. But it often seems like other people who have not had an overeating habit, have a lot less thinking about food. And that makes sense to me.

When we have some sort of habit that we’re trying to resolve, our thinking does get really revved up about it.

And of course in previous episodes, I’ve talked about the pressure cooker, and how the habit is a solution to all that thinking that’s going on. So what else do I want to say about that? I guess the main point is just that holding ourselves to a standard of perfection, when it comes to an unwanted habit. And this is what diets really encouraged us to do, right? You’re either on the wagon or off the wagon. And I think that’s kind of a toxic way to look at things.

So what I’m realizing lately is that I’m living my life, I’m doing the very best I can. And adding a whole bunch of thinking to myself, to my world, to my life about being perfect, and having the perfect diet and eating perfectly all the time, is going to end up creating more problems than it solves. So that’s the first way that perfection is a mistake.

The second way that perfection is a mistake is that perfection is really boring. When you meet somebody who seems perfectly perfect and has it all together, I really can’t think of anything more boring. It’s the messiness of life that’s really interesting, right? We don’t like it a lot of the time. But that’s where we really connect with our fellow human beings and perhaps even more importantly, that’s where we learn.

I really fell on my face at the end of 2023 and early 2024 with falling back into some overeating habits that I didn’t like.

That whole time, while it was frustrating and confounding, and I was not feeling great about myself. It created suffering for sure. I’ve mentioned that before it was a really great learning experience. It taught me a whole bunch of things, some of which I mentioned on Episode 54.

It was a really good learning experience. I learned so many things. I think I may have said this in one of the episodes, when things get tough, that’s when we learn. So if we were perfect all the time – and I know that’s our natural inclination, and we do want things to be resolved. If we were perfect all the time, we wouldn’t learn a thing, we wouldn’t have any of the experiences that lead to insight, and that lead to learning, and that help us to connect, and have empathy for others who might be going through a similar situation.

So that’s the flip side of perfection, the messy, sticky, untidy part of life, is really full of lessons and beauty and connection. And so that’s why I think being perfect is boring. And it’s not necessarily something we need to aim for, at all.

The third reason I think that perfection is a mistake, is that it’s unkind.This connects back to the previous point, we are messy human beings fumbling our way through life, divine beings, as that quote from Sydney Banks that I talked about in the episode with Tania, and then the follow up episode, we are divine beings walking through this world, trying to find ourselves and that’s messy, unpredictable journey. And while we’re doing that life is throwing us curveballs all the time. And we’re just stumbling forward trying to do our best.

In that circumstance of being a spiritual being having this very dense human experience it seems to me it’s really unkind to expect perfection from that human being, from that experience. And it’s interesting, because we don’t expect it of anyone else, do we? But we really do expect it of ourselves, which is such a shame.

I always try to anyway, in my life, I fall back on what is the kindest thing that can happen in this moment?

What is the kindest way that I can be with this person, whether it’s myself or someone else?That’s about all I have to say about kindness and perfection. So those are my three. That’s my top three list, about how perfection can be a mistake, it can get in our way.

I also want to say too, as we’re wrapping up here, that it can be our default position to expect perfection of ourselves. And that’s how our culture is set up. We’re graded in school, we are assessed for our performance at work.

We, especially in the whole Instagram of it all we see other people’s perfectly curated lives, and expect that for ourselves. And our life, of course, doesn’t look like that; the toilet has flooded and the dishes aren’t done and the dog is just thrown up on the carpet or whatever it is.

I think there’s just such an expectation and we have this disease of comparisonitis comparing our insides to other people’s outsides. And that can get really toxic and add to the problem of unwanted habits. So hopefully, we can all learn to be a little kinder to ourselves, to not hold ourselves to such a high standard and to cut ourselves a bit of slack as we’re walking through this world, finding our way learning and growing and connecting with one another.

I hope that is helpful for you today. I hope that you are doing well and taking good care. And I will talk to you again next week. See you then. Bye.

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When was the last time you felt deeply heard? Nurse and Three Principles practitioner Wendy Williams shares the impact deep listening has on both the listener and those being listened to. We also discuss the priceless benefits that understanding every human’s innate resilience can have for nurses and other healers.

As a nurse educator and clinician for over 25 years, Wendy Williams helps people facing extraordinary (and ordinary) challenges to move forward with grace and ease. She is an experienced mental well-being educator.

As Wendy sees it (and teaches it), we are meant to thrive in this world, but sometimes we get stuck. Whether it’s being swept up in the whirlwind of everyday life or struggling to overcome a major life hurdle, getting back on track, and moving forward can, and will, happen quite naturally. Wendy’s deep experience mixed with her practical and kind-hearted teaching & education point the way forward.

You can find Wendy Williams at ForwardWithWendy.com and on Facebook at Find Your Way Forward.

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Show Notes

• Paying attention to work we’re naturally drawn to
• Recognizing an awareness of our innate well-being
• How in any circumstance in life we can react in any number of ways depending on our thinking
• On the universal intelligence that flows through everything, including us
• The benefits for healers like nurses of knowing about our innate resilience
• The difference between deep listening and active listening

Resources Mentioned in this Episode

• Wendy’s Deep Listening class with Lori Carpenos, April 5 to 7, 2024
• Sydney Banks’ book The Missing Link
• Beyond Recovery
• Jacqueline Hollows’ book Wings of an Angel

Transcript of Interview with Wendy WilliamsAlexandra: Wendy Williams, welcome to Unbroken.

Wendy: Thank you very much for having me. I’m excited to be here with you.

Alexandra: Oh, I’m excited, you’re here as well. So let’s begin with a little bit of your background.

Tell us about yourself and how you got interested in the Three Principles.Wendy: Sure thing. Well, I live in the northeastern part of the United States near Boston, Massachusetts, I have been a nurse for more years. I got married at the ancient age of 38 to a guy that I just adore, even as we speak, I adore him.

I have been a nurse, like I say, for a very long time, specializing for years in conditions like HIV AIDS, cancer, hospice, so I’m a real pro at the bedside when people are saying goodbye. And, a lot of what I do happens to do with ongoing or chronic pain.

I’m still practicing as a nurse in that regard. But I’m also having a real focus on bringing the Three Principles to a wider community in health care, because a lot of my sisters and brothers in health care are kind of tired and burning out a little bit, especially after the pandemic. So I’m excited to extend the ripples, as I say, for the awakening, that certainly the Three Principles is brought to my life and many people that I know.

Alexandra: Wow. You’re not just dealing with giving people flu shots, and mending broken fingers.

Those are some pretty deep human experiences that people are having when you encounter them.Wendy: Absolutely. It was an interesting thing, when I was a brand new nurse I worked on what we call a medical surgical floor, which is a catch all phrase, meaning somebody broke a leg, somebody’s got appendicitis and but just kind of general routine things that you need to be in a hospital for for a bit. There were a lot of orthopedic problems on that floor, broken hips, broken, knees, whatever.

There was this one lady in there who had cancer in her bones. And so a lot of what we had to do for her was find a way to make her comfortable, we knew that the cancer wasn’t going to ever leave that was going to be, , part of her last days. And so that is what we call the report in the morning.

The new nursing staff for the day arrives at 6:30 in the morning, and gets the report from the night nurses who says this is what’s going on, this is what people need. And it was interesting to me, I said, huh, this is kind of interesting to notice that all the other nurses were like, Oh, that lady in seventh with the bone cancer. And I was like, bring the lady with the bone.

I was a young woman, I was 20 to 23. And so that was a clue. I said, Hmm, I’m drawn to that. I feel interested in that. And it became very, very clear to me that every loved one that was standing around her bed, wringing their hands, or holding their hands or crying, was also my patient. It wasn’t just the person in the bed.

As I look back, I feel very blessed that that was a gift that was given to me. A clear path was said, “You’re good at this, what you’re doing.” You’re not afraid. I used to say to other nurses, when nurses were trying to figure out what they wanted to do with their lives. To your point, some people are very well suited to bandages and broken fingers and flu shots. And some of us are drawn to other things.

I said, if you feel like when you go and buy a house, and it’s up in flames, and you feel like you want to run in and get people, you might be a cancer nurse or an oncology nurse, or a nurse who likes to work with death and dying. But if you want to run away and go call the cops or call the fire department and say I’ll be right here when they come out, but I’m not going. I said but I was one of those people said I gotta get in there and get somebody. I think it just was just kind of the way I’m built. I’m designed.

Alexandra: Oh, that’s so interesting.

You noticed it at such a young age. I mean, 22 that’s really young.Wendy: It was my first job. It was this general medical surgical floor and then as a result of working with that lady I found my next job at a very well established cancer center here in Boston called Dana Farber Cancer Institute. That was the next job and so I built my career on a foundation of getting to know people well at very difficult times.

Now, lots of cancer patients do very well, and go on. And I so I hope this is interesting to you. But anyway, so some nurses, again, , if they say, All right, what’s wrong? Oh, you need a flu shot? Got it. Let’s give you the flu shot. Okay, next. Okay. What do you need? You need a new bandage. Okay, got it. Next.

I was the one that said, Oh, you need chemotherapy this week? How’s it going? Did you have a good rough time last week? Oh, yeah. Okay, well, we’ll fix it this week. And then I would see them the next week, and then the next week, and then the next week. And then I might say yeah, you don’t need more chemotherapy, we’ll see when five months with your checkup. And I’ll make sure I’m there.

So there are some nurses, some healthcare providers that love that kind of longer path of relationship and building on that. And then there are some people who say, I just want to go in, take care of you and move on. Like a labor and delivery nurse. Let’s get that baby. Okay. Next, let’s get that baby next. Whereas an oncology nurse, or, , other chronic illnesses, really enjoy that longer term association with people.

Alexandra: When in your career did you run into the Three Principles? And what struck you about it?Wendy: Quite late. I’ve no problem telling you, I’m almost 66 years old, and I’ve been a nurse since I was 22 or 23. But I discovered the principles, let’s see, if I had to do the math right now, I’d say like eight years ago. So when I was 57 or 58.

And it was a really interesting little rabbit hole of YouTube videos, what I’m talking about?

Alexandra: Yes.

Wendy: I was working on another avenue of deep interest to me, which is relationship health, how marriages can be a soft place to land. There’s a lot of medical literature out there about people who do better after a heart attack, or do better after chemotherapy, or their symptoms aren’t as bad if they have a soft place to land at home with a really solid relationship. So that intrigued me, that kind of marriage of relationship health with physical health. That was intriguing to me.

So I was looking in the direction of developing a coaching business regarding marriage health, or relationship health, a lot of evidence bases out there for that sort of stuff. And so there was this guy, Steve Chandler, he’s really smart. He knows what he’s talking about. I was like, okay, like, as a coach, like, okay, Steve Chandler, and Steve Chandler said, the best or the smartest, or the most accomplished psychologist of the 20th century, George Pransky.

And I said, George Pransky? Never heard of that name. Now, I wasn’t always in psychological realm of nursing care. But I was like, George Pransky, I would think I would heard of him. I’ve heard a few is the best psychologist of the 20th century. So of course, I rabbit hole my way over there.

One of the videos was of George Pransky and Steve Chandler talking to each other. And if anything, about George Pransky, and Steve Chandler, that they talk very much like this: very articulate, very slow, very deliberate. And this was in the days before I knew that you could speed up a YouTube video. So I felt myself going, please, I’m begging you wrap it up. I know what you’re gonna say next. Could you just speak more quickly?

And the funny thing was that in the beginning of that particular video, as I recall it, Steve Chandler said to George, he said, George, have you heard that if you and I ever run out of clients, we can have another job making videos or audios for people who want to go to sleep? Isn’t that great? So the two of them just laughed and whatever. And I was like, Yeah, ha, that’s funny.

I heard something. It was like a Lego piece just went and just fell into place. There was something in the talk about the Three Principles. I don’t know the words. I don’t know what was said. But it was that feeling and a recognition. I don’t think I’ve ever used that word until this moment. It was a recognition of, Oh, I’ve always known who I am. I’ve always known that every patient I’ve ever come across, every person I’ve ever dealt with in my life, I’ve always known that they were made of good stuff, and good stock. And I’ve always known that we are ideally suited to live in this world that we’ve been put in.

But there was something that said, See, I wanted to show other people there was nobody in the room but me, I’m like, see, this is what I’ve been talking about. And I couldn’t put words to it. But it was this recognition of, yes, yes, this is how we work. This is what we’re made to work like, and all the bumps and valleys of life and chemo this day, and my kids are coming to visit tomorrow. And, all the peaks and valleys of life. We can do it.

We know how to ride the waves. But somehow we’ve been told waves are bad, you got to figure out why you have waves, you got to whack the mole, I call it whack a mole, you got to manage your stress, manage life, . And I said, I just knew, I just knew, and from I’ve just been a very happy woman to be hanging around with these people and learning from some of the teachers who knew Syd Banks personally. I’m in a Three Principles practitioner in a program now to kind of put a stamp of approval on that. And so anyway, it’s been a wonderful, a wonderful I, like I say recognition and waking up to, I always knew this was the way it was.

Alexandra: You mentioned the word stress there.

One of the things I noticed on your website was you said that it is possible to live beyond stress. So tell us what that means to you.Wendy: Fill in the blank, beyond stress, beyond burnout, beyond anxiety, beyond depression, fill in the blank. Again, I think that there are circumstances and things that come up. Nobody really wants to have a cancer diagnosis.

But not every person that has a cancer diagnosis, falls into a funk and just sits there night after night, wringing their hands and in anxiety.

Some people just say, alright, well, I guess I better cut back on some work hours, and I’ve got to make room for chemotherapy. I’ve always wondered when I’d like look like when I was bald. There are some people, they get light hearted about it. And then there are other people going, I can’t lose my hair. Oh my gosh, what are they going to do with this?

I’m not judging any of that. I’m just saying there’s a variety of experiences, a variety of ways that people can take their circumstances and so far beyond stress. Words are so inadequate as we’ve heard in the three principles, it’s so inadequate, is it literally beyond? Is it underneath? Is it beside? Is it imbued? Beyond sounds good to me.

There’s a group in the UK, Beyond Recovery. There’s a place of inner resilience, quietness, the stuff that makes the same power that just gave me enough oxygen when I just took my last breath right now, right now, and a breathing out the same power that is able to filter in the oxygen, take out any of the germs that might be floating around in here and expel them and create the right amount of carbon dioxide to breathe out to keep me oxygenated, healthy. That same power that I don’t think about except what I am right now is at work in me to bring my mind and my heart.

Okay, you got cancer. Okay. But you also have three children that you love. Okay. You also have, I don’t have three children. I just made that up. But, it can filter things out and bring me back to a steady state. In nursing, we call that homeostasis. So there’s a place beyond what’s going on. And it’s not to say to ignore what’s going on, or to think positively about it. Positive psychology? No, I’m just saying that whatever is coming our way we do have the ability, capacity.

It’s part of the design. Our friend Mavis Karn calls it divine design. And so beyond stress, beyond burnout, there’s a place sort of like somewhere over the rainbow. Again, I haven’t thought of that before today, either. But we’re bluebirds, we fly beyond the rainbow. And there’s a place and it’s always, always always there. Just like it’s always always always working to make my oxygen levels work.

I mean, right now, I’m digesting food that I ate two or three hours ago. I’m not sitting there going, gee, I hope, I hope my gut’s working. I wonder if I’m taking out enough carbohydrates from my food? I hope so. Do you think, gee, I really hope that I’m getting enough, my kidneys are clearing out my urine. Gee, I hope I don’t have to think about that.

And we have been, I have been, maybe you have been, enculturated through growing up in the 20/21st century, that I have to worry about every time I have an anxious or a difficult thought, oh, what does that mean? What do I have to do about that? Oh, there’s something to be done. All this, I need to follow that rabbit trail, as opposed to saying they come. And they go.

One thing I say to my clients is, if you could look back over the next the last six months or your whole life and add up the number of things that have actually worked out the way you dreaded that they would, how many hours have any of us spent going oh, gosh, I can’t believe it. , like, right now I have a I literally have a relative that’s in some legal trouble. So how many hours? I literally haven’t spent that money in the last six months, because I now know.

Had this happened years ago, before the Principles, I would have been wringing my hands, calling up 10 different lawyers. What do you think? What do you think? What do you think? Calling up friends who’ve had other friends that have been involved with law law problems? I would have been asking my whole church to pray, we need a prayer service. Not to say that I haven’t I literally asked people to pray for our situation. And I literally have said, I wonder what could happen. But it’s been such a small amount of time.

When I look back over the last six months, what it looked like six months ago was very, very dark. It has not been resolved. Where are we? March of 2024, the situation has not been resolved. And it isn’t anywhere looking as dark as it did six months ago, I could have spent hours. And I would have spent hours, days months of my life wringing my hands. But things come and they go, and just because I look at something and size it up, doesn’t mean I’ve sized it up accurately, or that things can’t change.

There’s just always something beyond and what I have thought about worried about in the last number of months, or anybody anyone has if you feel like answering it, but how many things have you worried about that have actually materialized the the way you worried about them? I mean, when you look back and go, what a waste of time. What a wast of time. I could have had those hours back. And so today, I’ve got them.

Do I get caught up and anxious? Sure I do if I’m in a lower state of of mood or whatever. Do things look really real and solid and like, oh boy, this is trouble come in. Sure. And there’s also thank goodness, like an eighth of an inch of awareness. A little bit that says, Oh, you’re having a rough time right now. Look at you having a rough time. And it’s not like I talk myself out of it. Sometimes I say, Yeah, I’m having a rough time, and I’m gonna go get a chocolate bar, and I’m gonna get really mad, and I’m gonna call 10 friends.

Sometimes I’m aware but there’s a little bit of space that I cherish from knowing the principles. It’s just the awareness that this too, shall pass. It always has it always will. Every wisdom book in the world that we have access to says the same thing. And, it’s thanks to Syd Banks and the Three Principles that it’s worded in such a way that it that Lego piece just kind of dropped in.

Alexandra: I imagine for nurses, especially, and doctors, healers, knowing that the patient is as resilient as anybody else, must be such helpful information.Wendy: Yes. Helpful information in terms of me as a nurse going, you got this. You may not be able to see it right now. But you do. You’re absolutely right. It’s absolutely wonderful to be able to sit there and not be pulled in, if you will. And it’s also wonderful, as a healer. I love that word. Thank you. Not that I am the healer. A healing presence is to create an environment or a special a space, where allowing that person to verbalize cry, wring their hands, uninterrupted, deeply listening to them. In some circles in health care, they call it generous listening.

It’s been unbelievably wonderful to really hear people reach their own conclusions. Or say, Oh, maybe I should move to my sister’s because she’s got a house all on one floor. I’ve got a broken hip. Maybe I’ll just ask my sister. That’s a good idea. Now, do I know anything about her sister’s house? No.

But if somebody’s going, Oh, my gosh, how am I going to I live alone? What am I going to do? My hip’s broken, I’m not gonna be able to climb my stairs, I’ll have to hire somebody. By listening to them. It’s a great idea. Sounds good to me. I might be able to add my two cents worth, which is when you get to your sister’s house, make sure there are no scatter rugs, because those can really trip you up when you’re on your crutches or on your walker. So get rid of the scatter rugs when your sisters might be able to add two cents. But that’s just a really easy example. But yes, to answer your question, it is a wonderful thing for health care providers to be able to know that.

Alexandra: You mentioned deep listening there. And we talked about this before we pressed record.

There’s a difference between deep listening and active listening.Wendy: Health care providers worldwide are taught to active listen. Which is to do exactly what you’re doing. Oh, good. I hear you without necessarily saying the words. I hear you. Or there’s something called mirroring. Like if somebody’s sad and crying and just go right. So let me get this right. You said that you’re worried about your stairs at your house with your broken hip? Because you live on the second your if I’ve got that right. Oh, I do have a right okay. And did I hear it right that you said that you have a sister who has a Oh, okay.

Active listening is literally remembering, recalling, mirroring. It’s a wonderful tool. And what seems to be the golden ticket when it comes to listening is clearing my mind and as the listener to say, I want to see the world as this person sees it. I want to feel the world as this person feels it. So I’m just going to literally just listen. And it doesn’t mean it hurts. But I don’t have to remember what they’re saying. I don’t have to, I just have this sense of interest, and curiosity, and patience. And let the person just go.

It really levels the playing field. A wonderful person in the world called Rachel Naomi Remen. She’s a physician, and she’s in her mid to late 80s now, but she’s written some wonderful books, and she’s written some really stellar bits about the boat helping and fixing while they come from a good place. And that’s what doctors and nurses, and health and social workers and psychologists do, we want to help and we want to fix. There’s a little bit of a power imbalance there. I’m a helper, I’m a fixer. I’m in a good place, you’re in a very upsetting place, and you need my help. I want to go in there and fix it.

When you do some generous listening or some deep listening just to human beings it’s just so much more therapeutic, kind, trusting and the resilience of everybody. When we listen from that place of no judgment. And I don’t mean judgment, like, oh, you’re a bad person, but judgment meaning Oh, I know what you mean. Oh, I’m adding one plus one equals two. I know. I know. Yeah. The broken hip. Yeah. Just listen, just listen. It’s very, very different than active listening. It’s like 180 degrees different than active listening.

Alexandra: I love that description. That’s great. I had an experience recently of listening to someone. I was trying, honestly trying to practice just having a calm, quiet mind. And this person had a tiny little problem. I don’t even remember what it was. And as I sat and listened, she worked her way around to the solution. She had come to me with a question, and I just stayed quiet and calm.

She figured it out herself. It was so beautiful to see.Wendy: And did she say Oh, thank you so much. You help me so much. But yet, we do do something because it’s vastly different. Can you think of the last time that somebody listened to you? And just and they didn’t leave?

We know what it feels like when somebody’s present with us whether they’re talking or not talking, nodding or not nodding.We know what it feels like. Everybody knows what it feels like to really have somebody listening to them. And we know what it’s like to have somebody distracted. Like they go look at their phone. Oh, what? I’m sorry, what did you say? We know what that feels like. And so you can say, I didn’t do anything. You arrived at this conclusion yourself. Very true.

That’s why I have a program with a colleague, Laurie Carpenos. I think she’s been on your podcast before. The Gift of Deep Listening. It is a gift to give. And when you’ve given it and you’re the listener, there is something magical that does happen in that space, that third space, that interplay between two human beings, that you walk away feeling there’s something really special in it.

So yeah, there is a big difference between the two. That’s a great example that your client or whatever, had that experience with you and and you look back and you go, I didn’t really say anything. You figure that out yourself. How many coaches would have done that not said, All right. This is what we need to do. You need to meditate, take two deep breaths and call me in the morning or whatever. Right? Give them a list.

Things like, okay, let’s make a checklist, the good column and a bad column. And there’s lots of tricks and tools that have their place sometimes and have worked in the past. But there’s something really valuable about the Three Principles. Knowing that we’re already uniquely able to live in this world that we live in. And when some other person is able to listen to us and hear us. We get to realize that again, ourselves and pick up our mat and walk.

Alexandra: With our busy lives, and how distracted we all are, when you’re teaching about deep listening do you ever get pushback about oh, I don’t have time to do that? Especially I guess I’m thinking of nurses.Wendy: I haven’t worked with a group of nurses yet. The people that have taken the class deep listening, read the description, and go, Oh, I’m interested in that. So they’re already coming prepared with an interest in learning more about that.

What I can say, that I have seen over time, is that people are a bit gobsmacked and how simple it is, and how much they gained from it on both sides. When you’re in a class or in a workshop, go off and listen to another person for five minutes and let them listen to you for five minutes. And the subject is your favorite book, it’s something a bit contrived. But even in that, as opposed to like, I’m in a muddle, something’s really upsetting, I’m going to call my best friend, I’m just going to ask her if she can just listen to me.

I’m recalling my own stepson who’s 35 years old now. But I remember when he was 17, he was sitting in my dining room saying, I can’t even hear myself think, I can’t even hear myself think. I didn’t know the Principles then. But I’m like, That makes a lot of sense. And I remember my heart going up to him, I wish I could help you quiet your mind so that you could hear yourself, because he was just full of all these different voices, teachers and mom and dad and stepmom.

If he’s 17, and he knew the inside was the direction. So the pushback is not really because again, people kind of self select in here. I’m curious when we introduce these things to versus and so forth. And there’s a number of health care providers in the Three Principles world who are on board and they get it. They know what it’s like to listen to their patients or listen at work, listen to their colleagues. Listen to their boss. A beautiful Northstar to follow.

I’m looking forward to figure out how much pushback but I can imagine with anybody you think you don’t have the time? And I don’t know how much time do you really need to listen to somebody before they can reach a conclusion? Hours? Days?

I was just reading The Missing Link before we got on the call. And one thought, you don’t have to be in therapy 42 years to get well, or to release yourself from mental strain or difficulty. It’s just one thought. I remember in my early days of the Principles, my issue was, what is the one thought? What is the thought? I didn’t realize it was counting. I thought he was giving content. Like it’s just one thought, and I’m not telling you what it is you’re gonna have to figure it out. And I was like, oh that’s what they mean. My one thought, Okay, I got it.

Alexandra: It occurs to me, too, that when we know that that place of peace exists within us, we don’t need 15 minutes to quiet our mind down in order to listen.

We hopefully can just drop in.Wendy: And then it’s sort of like, wow, it’s always been there. You mean I don’t have to count all my oxygen molecules? Oh, it’s always been there. My lungs have always operated this way. Ever since I was born, I’m 65. Now, I didn’t realize, Wow, what a relief, I have a lot more time in my day now that I know what I have to kind of oxygen molecules. I mean, to me, it’s very similar to that, like, we really don’t have to be quite so revved up, whack a mole, managing stress, scanning the horizon, counting the beans, we can literally just kind of sit back and go. My mind and my heart and my body and my soul know how to recalibrate. But I keep overriding the system.

I’ve been taught since I was little to override the system. Western cultures have been taught to override the system. I think that there are probably a lot of I don’t know, what’s the right term these days developing nations or whatever. People who don’t? I don’t know, people who live differently than I do. Who are like, yeah, yeah, don’t worry. They don’t worry about a lot of these things. The internet stuff. What people all over the world. Just don’t? Don’t think like this. Don’t worry about these kinds of things, don’t get wrapped up by these kinds of things.

Alexandra: Exactly. We’re coming close to the end of our time together.

Is there anything you’d like to share that we haven’t touched on yet?Wendy: That’s a really good question. I don’t think so I really have loved the way this conversation was very organic. I really appreciate that when people share their experiences with one another, like you shared your experience with coaching somebody else, I shared my experience I’ve got as a nurse, there’s something really restorative and connecting. About coming from that place, sharing life in life, person and in person.

Versus let me tell you about the last five courses that I’ve taken in the last eight books I’ve read about Three Principles. And I want to share some data points with you and some studies. And so I guess that would be something I would want to share with people is to really take full advantage every time you can of being with another human being in the grocery store line, at the bank. In your home. Online. There’s so such tremendous beauty in all human beings. I’m reading the book by Jacqueline hollows called…

Alexandra: Wings of an Angel. She’s been on the show as well.Wendy: So good. So good. We’re talking about hardcore, locked up. For many, many years, criminals in the United Kingdom. Jacqueline Hollows is able to just go, aren’t they just lovely? Aren’t they just the yummiest person? Can’t you just see how tender hearted and sweet they are?

I don’t know if everybody could see that. It’s just an extreme example. So I’m not walking around with people who are in prison uniforms and carrying billy clubs. But sometimes I can say I am from the United States of America. I’ll let that just sit there like that. Just like that.

We’re in weird weird times. And I well, actually in Canada, too. I know that there’s a little bit of interesting, trying to stay balanced as a citizen in Canada and United States. I’m 65. I don’t remember being mad at people before. And I feel you shouldn’t think like that. You shouldn’t vote like that. Where did that come from?

If I can apply that. Remember, wings of an angel. Prisoners, like everyone is a beautiful example of divine engineering. You just sit with people and be with people and sharing just real stuff. And I mean, we didn’t go deep like when I say real stuff, I don’t mean, like the most deeply personal things, we just shared our experience of living as women wherever we lived.

It doesn’t take much. I encourage people to really trust that human beings are pretty amazing and cool. And have a listen. And trust that they’re beautifully made from the inside out.

Alexandra: Wow, that’s beautiful. Thank you, Wendy. That’s lovely.

Where we can find out more about you and your work and about your class that you’re putting on with Lori?Wendy: The next one is actually going to be a weekend one, we’re calling it Five Hours for the Gift of Deep Listening. So it’s a weekend coming up – April 5 through 7, 2024. Which again, we’re going to be watching this a year from now it won’t be but that’s okay.

A great place to find me is on my website. It’s forwardwithwendy.com. And Lori and I do and you’ll see on the page different programs that we have. I think that’s probably the best place

Alexandra: I will put links in the show notes as well, to those things. Thank you so much for being with me here today. I really appreciate it.

Wendy: It was lovely. Take care.

Featured image photo by Juan Davila on Unsplash

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Last week, on episode 53 of Unbroken, Tania Elfersy coached me around my overeating habit and the return of that habit after months of having it resolved. This week I share the moments that had the most meaning for me and also expand on some of the highlights to offer greater clarity and understanding for those who are dealing with an unwanted habit like overeating.

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Show Notes

• How the words we use in this exploration are pointing to a feeling
• Why did I forget what I know about the drive to overeat?
• How wrestling with ‘problems’ makes them sticky
• How we can use even healthy food to quell the drive to overeat
• How our feelings are always an accurate barometer about our state of mind and/or connection to our well-being
• Why awareness is enough to change an unwanted habit

Resources Mentioned in this Episode

• Episode 53, It’s Not All On You with Coach Tania Elfersy
• Tania’s website
• My new course on Insight Timer is called How To Tell If A Group Has Cult-Like Tendencies
• Sydney Banks’ YouTube Channel
• Book: It’s Not About The Food
• Podcast: Psychology Has It Backwards with Christine Heath and Judith Sedgeman

Transcript of EpisodeHello explorers and welcome to episode 54 of Unbroken. I’m Alexandra Amor. I’m back with a follow up to last week’s episode 53 with Tania Elfersy where she coached me. So I’m going to go through, as I mentioned, and pull out the things that really stuck out for me, the highlights, and talk about what resonated with me, maybe provide some clarity if things weren’t clear.

Tania and I are quite good friends, we’ve known each other for over four years, we are in a mastermind group together. So I suspect that we were able to shorthand some things. So I just want to pull a couple of those things out, and make sure that it was clear to you the listening audience.

Before we begin, a couple of pieces of information I wanted to share. One is that because of Tania’s coaching session with me, my eating is back on track, I’m eating in a way that really works for me that feels good. And that feels healthy. And it doesn’t feel disordered, for lack of a better word. I don’t feel that drive to overeat anymore. I just feel really good about the way I’m eating. So yay, that’s a victory.

The second thing is that if you’re listening to this when it comes out, I have a new course that’s coming out on Insight Timer. And it has absolutely nothing to do with food or eating, but I thought I’d mention it anyway. If you’re familiar with Insight Timer, it’s an app that you can download to your phone, obviously. And it started out literally as a as a timer for people who wanted to meditate. And they’ve expanded the scope of their services quite a bit. I’m on there as a teacher, sharing things about unwanted habits and eating and all that kind of stuff.

The way it works is that if you download the app you can access a whole ton of stuff for free. So you don’t need a membership to access a number of different files there. It’s all audio. I have two tracks on there that you can listen to. So if you just search for my name, Alexandra Amor on Insight Timer, you’ll find those two tracks. They’re very similar to what I talked about here on the podcast.

And then the new course that I released. Courses, which are more than one audio track, are behind a paywall. So if you happen to be a subscriber to Insight Timer, then you’ll have access to that course. And it’s called How To Tell If A Group Has Cult-Like Tendencies. So obviously, this is based on my background, having been in a cult for 10 years in the 1990s. It’s something I’m passionate about sharing information about helping people to understand what cults are, and specifically how they work and how we can notice when we’re getting into a situation which, you know, doesn’t feel comfortable. And we can gauge or analyze whether or not it’s actually a cult.

If you have a paid subscription to Insight Timer, give it a listen and give it a review if you have a moment, that would be great. It’s always helpful to have reviews and other people’s opinions about how the course is. It’s not long, it’s roughly five, five-minute audio lessons.

The other thing I wanted to do was give a shout out to a couple people who reached out to me after my podcast from two weeks ago, where I was talking about how I was struggling and that kind of thing. A big shout out to Pam H who reached out to me and we have a lovely conversation and a little chat about our journeys with food and with all the things. It was really nice to connect to you Pam and I just really appreciate the kindness and the care that people exhibited by doing that. It was really really sweet to see I mean obviously that’s not why I did it, but then for that to be the reaction, the response. That was really really nice.

Okay, so on to today’s call. If you haven’t listened to Episode 53, I recommend that you go back and do that first. Because pretty much everything I’m going to talk about now is related to things that come up during that conversation with Tania, where she coaches me about my relapse, as it were.

I hate using that word, it sounds so serious. And I don’t know, very kind of clinical, there’s something about it, that just really bothers me. It sounds dangerous, having a relapse. need to find a different word for that.

All it was that my habit came back after months of being away. I really fell on my face in terms of trying to sort it out. And then Tania helped me get myself up on my feet again. So that was great.

So the first thing I want to talk about is that she, the thing that really resonated for me or one of the things was that partway through the conversation:

Tania talks about how the feeling of the drive to overeat that I was experiencing was a message.Like I always say these things are feedback. We’re not broken. They’re not letting us know that there’s anything wrong with us their feedback. And she just said it’s so simply that feeling was letting me know that I had fallen off the path of truth. That’s what she had. That’s how she described it. So I wanted to talk about that a little bit. Because when she said the path of truth, I knew exactly what she meant.

And the words, those words, specifically “the path of truth” aren’t what’s important in what she was saying. So that’s the phrase that worked for her and that she used, but we could say that we had become the feeling was letting us know that we’re we had become disconnected from our divinity. We could say they had pointed out that we were forgetting about our own well-being. We could say they were feedback about our thinking and our state of mind.

When we get caught up in our state of mind, that’s when we forget about our innate well-being and divinity. So, if those words didn’t really ring true, or not ring true, if they were if they didn’t resonate for you exactly the path of truth. That’s okay. It’s what they’re pointing at that’s really important.

The only tool we have to point to our divinity is language, is these words that we use, especially when we’re on it on a podcast format.

It’s important to remember that it’s not the words themselves that matter. It’s what they’re pointing to.I’ve been listening to some Sydney Banks recorded conversations lately on his YouTube channel, and I noticed in one how much he was saying that it’s not the words that matter. It’s the feeling behind them. That’s how he phrases it. And so the feeling is what we’re pointing to. There’s another… see, it’s so hard with language, there’s something else beyond just our human experience, and, and our experience of thought. That’s what we’re trying to point to, that there’s an experience beyond, that there’s a part of us that is not limited by those things. And so that’s what Tania was pointing to, and I really got it right away.

I’ve been reflecting since then, of course on why did I forget about that?Because I was saying things to myself, this is feedback. It’s telling me that I’m caught up in my thinking. And the answer is probably not perfectly clear to me. I think sometimes we just need help, sometimes we just need someone to remind us of what the truth of ourselves is. And as I talk about later in the call, and I’m trying to remember do I bring that up here? Maybe so maybe I’ll talk about this now, but later in the call. I talked about how I realized through that conversation with Tania, that I had been really wrestling with the feeling of the drive to overeat, the feeling of that, wanting to eat more than his, wanting to eat in a way that wasn’t comfortable for me.

I got caught up in wrestling with that feeling and what happens when we, as I talked about all the time, when we wrestle with something, it gets sticky. That’s the thing that makes it sticky. Because we believe it’s real, we believe it’s a problem. So even though I was saying to myself, this isn’t a problem, I know it’s feedback, I still was looking at it as a problem. I guess that’s the simplest way to say it.

In some part of myself, an unconscious part perhaps, I was seeing this as a problem.And what Tania was able to remind me of and bring to light is that these things aren’t a problem. They are a message from the wiser parts of ourselves.

One thing, actually, in my conversation with Pam, who I spoke to after the episode two weeks ago, that I wonder if I haven’t made clear enough is that during that relapse, or whatever we’re gonna call it. I talked about being drawn to rice and potatoes. And I don’t think I spent enough time explaining that I wasn’t demonizing rice and potatoes. There’s nothing wrong with rice and potatoes. They are a healthy part of any diet, or almost any diet. And by diet, I mean, just a way of eating not a way to lose weight.

The reason they were bothering me was specifically because I had been trying to avoid starchy foods. Starchy foods have started to give me as I age, a little bit of acid reflux. So I was trying to avoid them for that reason. And I could tell that I was eating them as comfort food. And I think one of the reasons for that is that I don’t eat anything sweet, really anymore. I’m allergic to wheat. So I never ever eat cake, or cookies or anything like that, simply because I can’t. And the stuff that is gluten free that you get in the grocery store just doesn’t taste great. I’m just not interested at all.

My focus on rice and potatoes was just my way of my body expressing the drive to overeat, and then trying to get a message to me. That’s all it was. So I hope that’s clear. If it’s not, let me know. You can always send a question to AlexandraAmor.com/questions.

This is an edit that I’m inserting, something I’ve never done before. But after I stopped the previous record, or stopped the recording of this episode, I went to the grocery store where we have the best ideas. And I realized there were two things I wanted to say that I neglected to say about this rice and potatoes issue that might help to explain or explore what I’m pointing to.

The first thing is that it’s not about the food, as the title of my book says.It’s never about the food. The self-help industry and the diet industry don’t understand this. And this is why you and I have experienced so much failure when it comes to diets and self-help and all that stuff. Because it’s not about the food that we’re eating. It’s about the feeling that’s inside us that’s trying to wake us up. And when so when I talk about eating rice and potatoes, I’m just talking about the thing that happens to scratch that itch for me in the moment.

It’s not about the rice and the potatoes. They are not a problem.Where I want to be looking is at the feeling that’s within me and understanding what that feeling is trying to say to me, and as we’re exploring, what that feeling is trying to tell me is, I’ve fallen asleep to my own innate well being, or I’ve forgotten my own divinity, however you want to say it. So just an important thing to remember. It’s never about the food. It’s not about the food.

And a great example of this – and this is why I’m adding this edit in mostly, that I thought of while I was at the grocery store – is a story from Christine Heath. So Christine Heath is, I think, one of the founders of the Hawaii Counseling and Education Center, which is a mental health facility that is Three Principles based. She studied with Sydney Banks. And she has a podcast with Judy Sedgman. And the podcast is called Psychology Has It Backwards.

Christine tells a story on the podcast, and I’m sorry, I don’t remember what episode it is. Because it was quite a while ago, now that I listened to it. But she tells a story about her own drive to overeat. She doesn’t call it that: those are my words. But she talks about a period where and I can’t remember what was going on, but where she really felt strong urges to overeat. And the interesting thing was that she was and, and forgive me, I may be messing up some of the details. But she was intended to be a really, really healthy eater, really focused on healthy food.

The way that she dealt with that drive to overeat, was to cook and then eat an entire head of cauliflower.This is just such a perfect example because it points out a couple of different things which are really important to see.

One is that the drive that we’re feeling, the urge that we’re feeling to overeat can be satisfied in a way by anything as long as it has meaning for us.

So just as I was satisfying that feeling temporarily with rice and potatoes, Christine was able to do it with a completely healthy food. I mean, if you said to somebody, Hey, I’m eating too much cauliflower, they’d go what’s the problem. That’s not an issue. But she knew, probably because she could feel the feeling inside her. That desperation, the drive to overeat, the urges to have too much food in her stomach, those feelings were within her. She knew it was disordered what she was doing. And also, an entire head of cauliflower is too much food for anyone you know, that’s too much cauliflower.

She knew it was that she was experiencing something that needed resolution.And that was the way that her drive to overeat was expressing itself. So I want to point that out, because it’s so important to see that we can experience these feelings, these urges to eat and we typically think about them around food that might be labeled as unhealthy; chocolate, or potato chips, or candy or sugar, cake, all that kind of stuff. But it’s not about the food. Because we can have this feeling about anything. We can have it about cauliflower. Right? And that was what Christine experienced. So I wanted to share that. I thought it was really important to point out and I had forgotten about that story.

I haven’t probably thought about it in 18 months or two years or something, but needed to share it. So Okay, now we’ll carry on.

The second thing I want to point out and it’s related to that first thing about the path of truth is a reminder that:

Our feelings are always, always letting us know whether we’re connected to the path of truth or not.And again, fill in that phrase with whatever you want. They’re telling us whether we’re connected to our divinity or not. They’re telling us whether we’re connected and remembering our well-being or not, whatever phrase you want to use. They’re a barometer. And they’re such a good gauge of whether or not that’s happening is the best way to describe it.

You can always trust the feelings that you have in your body, they are the perfect gauge for whatever’s going on with you.

Let’s take an example of being in a relationship, as opposed to something having to do with food. If you’re in a relationship with someone, and you’re having a disagreement with that person, and you suddenly feel all stirred up inside and angry, perhaps, and frustrated, and really tense and wanting to get your point across or victimized or whatever it is, that feeling is letting you know this is probably not the moment to have a conversation with your spouse or loved one.

And if you if you step away, your mental state will return to one of calm and quiet and peace, because that’s the way it’s designed.

Tania talked about that as well about how this awareness is everything.This is a really good moment to talk about that. So what’s happening when we feel the drive to overeat, or we feel like shouting at our spouse, or whatever it is, that when we become aware of that is this is another thing that Tania was really pointing to about how important that is. And really, it’s just the awareness that we need. So when we become aware of what’s happening, that we have a feeling in our inside ourselves, that’s not good. That’s not just doesn’t feel like a good feeling. And we all know the difference always all the time.

Then it becomes the responsibility of our divine engineering to adjust that situation, to shift it, to resolve things.That’s where insight might step in. So what one thing that was really important that I hadn’t seen before that Tania said was that we we can really rely, I guess I just I saw it at a new level. I shouldn’t say I saw it for the first time. But I definitely saw it at a deeper level is that awareness is what we need. And then we can rely on our divine engineering. So a few episodes ago, I talked about, I think it might have been episode 52. I talked about is there a way to cultivate insight?

I had started to go down that rabbit hole with myself, maybe looking for practices to cultivate insight. And after the call with Tania, I realized, actually, there isn’t really a need for that, because awareness is everything. And once we’re aware, and we’re aware that our divine engineering will take over and shift things for us that we will have insights, then that’s enough. That’s all we need to do.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with you creating a practice if you want to, to see if it would create more insight, but I can really see that, that where I want to look now is in the direction of simply being aware of how I feel. And as soon as I’m aware of how I feel, and I know that’s a message. If I’m having a bad feeling or if I’m having a feeling that bothers me, that’s not comfortable. That feels yucky. The awareness of that is 99% of the battle. And then I just need to remember that’s a message. Like I said earlier, that’s a barometric reading, letting me know where I’m at.

When we have those yucky feelings where we’re at is we’re disconnected from our own sense of well being or our own sense of divinity or our own path of truth, however you want to phrase it. So that was the next point I wanted to make. And then what else have I got written down here? Oh, geez, I think I’ve covered most of what I had made notes about.

I think looking back serendipitously, that quote that I brought to Tania, right at the beginning of the episode was really interesting because it reflected exact exactly what we talked about on the call.

You are a divine being walking through this life trying to find yourself.

And that’s exactly what we’re doing. We are spiritual beings, divine beings, you might say, aspects of the Divine, walking through a human world, having a human experience, and trying to remember our own divinity. I’m sure millions and millions of people have walked through their entire lives without realizing that without recognizing, and I would have if I hadn’t stumbled across this understanding, without recognizing that we have this engineering that’s in place, that we don’t need to do anything about that.

As soon as we’re aware of how we’re feeling, it takes over. And it will bring us back automatically and naturally, every time to our center, or our sense of well being or our connection with our divinity. So you Yeah, I thought it was really cool that I had just heard that quote the night before. And then, like I say, it pointed to everything that Tania and I talked about on that episode.

And the one other thing I thought of. Or I guess that’s, well, let’s connect it to that, actually, to our divine engineering. I thought of this little analogy, if you’ve seen the movie, Finding Nemo. And it’s an animated movie by Pixar. And there’s there, the characters are little fish, there’s a blue fish, who’s looking for his son, Nemo. And there’s an orange fish, of course, and you’re probably all familiar with this, but just in case, you’re not named Dory. And she’s on the journey with the dad fish trying to help him find his son. And Dory has short term memory loss.

And related to this idea of our divine engineering and to the fact that we don’t need to do anything to once we’re aware of what’s going on that we’ve fallen off the path of truth that our that our engineering, Tania call that our system then kicks in, and it supports us and it creates the insights and the changes and all the things that we need to carry on and return to a really good feeling. So it’s like being Dory in in that ocean. In other words, so Dory loses her memory and people keep reminding her about things that she’s forgotten.

When we’re walking in this world, we’re doing the same thing. We are constantly forgetting and then waking up to it, forgetting and then waking up to it. And asking ourselves how can I fix this? How can I make this different? How can I change my unwanted habit? What sort of willpower tools can I use to do that? What sort of regimen or structure or that sort of thing can I use to stop myself from eating the thing that I you know that I really crave but that I don’t want to be eating.

People ask what can I do to return to being connected with my well-being?That would be just like Dory saying, What can I do to return to the water? What can I do to return to be in the ocean. And of course, she’s never left the ocean. And it’s the same with us, we’ve never left our divinity. It’s always there. So just like Dory is swimming through the ocean and forgetting things, and then being reminded of them again, she is always, always in her natural state, in her state of being a fish in the ocean. And there’s nothing she needs to do to return to that state of being in the water and being a fish.

It’s the same with us. And when we I know, it can be a little bit hard to get our heads around that a little bit. Because we can feel so separated from, from the Divine parts of ourselves from our well being, especially if we’ve been caught up in the self help world like I was for 30+ years where everything is focused on the problems that we have, and fixing those.

I wanted to bring that up as a reminder, and I thought that was a good visual, because so many people have seen that film. And I have heard it brought up before as a metaphor about our divine engineering and who we are, that it is like a fish asking about what’s water. So yeah, I thought that little analogy might be helpful.

I think that’s about all I have to share on this episode. I mean, there was so much that I appreciated about that coaching call with Tania and just a big shout out to her because it was so special for me, especially to be able to speak to somebody who I’m friends with, and who I trust. And who knows me. She knows me really well. I just really appreciate you, Tania Elfersy. It was so good, having you coach me.

And of course, the intention of releasing that coaching call was to be helpful to others. So I really hope it was helpful for you. And that thing, some things stood out to you or resonated with you.

If you have any follow up questions about the call, or anything that I’ve said here today, you can leave a comment on the blog post if you go to unbroken podcast.com and then scroll down. This is number 54. And if you click on that, you’ll go to the blog post. And then if you scroll down to the bottom of the blog post, you can leave a comment.

I would love to hear if something resonated with you or if you are puzzled by anything. And like I said at the beginning, you can also go to if you want to be more private, you can go to AlexandraAmor.com/questions and submit a question there as well.

I think that’s about it for me today. I hope you are doing well and taking good care and I look forward to talking to you again soon. Bye.

Featured image photo by Sebastien Gabriel on Unsplash

The post Follow-up To Last Week’s Coaching Call appeared first on Alexandra Amor Books & Courses.

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You’ve heard me struggle for the past few months because I’ve had a relapse into my overeating habit. I finally wised up and called in my friend Tania Elfersy to coach me. In this episode, Tania shares so much wisdom and teaches me many things including that awareness of what is truth and what isn’t is so important and that once we’re aware our divine design will take things from there.

Tania Elfersy has a passion for revealing rarely discussed truths about women’s life-cycle events.

She is a transformative coach, speaker, writer and educator. Since 2015, Tania has been supporting women through perimenopause and menopause, allowing them to reach natural symptom relief, and a greater sense of well-being.

You can find Tania Elfersy at TheWiserWoman.com and on Facebook @TheWiserWoman.

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Show Notes

• The truth is always in clarity, never in a bad feeling
• What is an unwanted habit telling us about?
• What happens when we fall off the path of truth?
• The importance of being aware of our experience in the moment
• How wrestling with what we’re feeling makes it ‘sticky’
• How it’s not on us to fix how we feel – it will fix on it’s own once we’re aware of having fallen off the path of truth
• When we are calm solutions arise

Transcript of Interview with Coach Tania ElfersyAlexandra: Thank you for being with me here today. I really appreciate it. And here’s the funny thing. I had a couple of insights in the last couple of days that have felt like they’ve been quite helpful.

I was listening to some Sydney Banks stuff while I was cooking the other night. And I guess it doesn’t really matter what was said, but he said,

“You are a divine being walking through this life trying to find yourself.”

I really resonated with that. It really encapsulated everything we do, and just shifted something for me. But let’s talk about the stuff that’s tricky. Because that’s where the juice is.

My main question is if you felt stuck, what do you do in that situation?Tania: That’s why I often feel stuck. Because I’m such a human. I don’t fly on my little enlightenment cushion. And sometimes, it just occurs to me that the feeling is telling me what’s true. So I fall back into the feeling. And ponder on that.

I’ve checked this out now for about six, seven years. Because it’s not enough that I’ll tell you, the feeling is pointing to what’s true. And in that sense, as I’m sure you know, that is the feeling of clarity. And everything else is not true. So, again, I could tell you this, but until you’ve really experienced it. I’m still surprised when I get that. And I’ll give you an example, really, it’s not, I guess it’s not like a stuck example, but it’s an example of that.

I was trying to go to sleep, I’d almost fallen asleep or I just about falling asleep. And all of a sudden there was a huge bang. I mean, boom. And so I’m going through my mind and I’m like, okay, it doesn’t sound like it with a missile. Unfortunately, I know what that sounds like. It doesn’t sound like there’s a bomb. I know that. But there was definitely something.

I was just lying there. I wasn’t moving. And I suspected my husband might have heard it, but I thought maybe it was asleep. I didn’t want to wake him up. And so I was going through what maybe it’s a new kind of bomb that I haven’t heard before. And it’s a new kind of weapon and a new kind of thing. And then I was like listening for would there be sirens. Because we’re still in the war. There will be sirens and I’m not hearing any sirens or maybe it was further away but it was still quiet out there. Hang on.

I got up and I checked the news and there was nothing in the news. Maybe they’re hiding it from us. Maybe it’s so bad they’re hiding. Right? So this is all going through my mind. And it is 2am. So it’s like, by the time I got up, it was 2am. I think it was like kind of falling asleep that one time. So that whole time, I was just like, lying there, having all these emotions. And then I came back to bed and I woke up my husband. “Did you hear that?” And he’s like, “It’s thunder.”

I don’t know why I didn’t catch it as thunder, but I didn’t. So then I had this whole hour. And of course, if I had tuned in before, I would know. Because it’s always true. It’s always true, even if the truth we can say, is something that we would classify as uncomfortable.

The truth is always in the clarity, and it’s never in the uncomfortable feeling.It’s so profound. Right? And like I said, you have to test it to believe it. Because we’re always going to say, Well, surely this this one, this one is, you know, this one is not, it’s not going to be this one isn’t. But it is and, and even if, like I said, even if there’s a situation where we think, Well, this, this is terrible, like in any sense, like, it’s not even that it’s the story we attach to the situation that’s making us feel uncomfortable.

Alexandra: Okay, so applying that to myself, when I felt like I was having a relapse, that’s what I’m calling it, but holding that term lightly, in October, which is sort of when it started. I get the feeling of the drive to over eat. And what you’re saying, putting that in personal terms, is that the truth isn’t there in that feeling. It’s in clarity.

When I feel that feeling, knowing that it’s not true, is one place to look.Tania: I’m sure there are a number of thoughts that are coming through at that time for you. Like what happens?

Alexandra: I feel disappointed right away. I hope it’s very temporary, a day or two, which this time it wasn’t. And then I kind of went into a passive mode of just waiting for insight about it. And that eventually led to frustration. So that was my process. Does that help?

Tania: Can we go back a little bit more. What happens you’re talking about, how you feel yourself. So what happens in that? You just said, I have the feeling to overeat? I can’t remember the words used or something. But what what’s that?

Alexandra: The drive to overeat is what I call it. It’s this specific feeling. How can I describe it? It’s a feeling of being gripped by a drive, like I said, to eat in a way that I don’t want to eat, to engage in a behavior that I don’t want to do. And it feels so compelling that if I tried to just use willpower to not do it, which I have done in the past, it’s futile. It’s like holding a beach ball under the water. It’s just you’re fighting against Mother Nature, and it’s just going to pop up eventually.

Tania: And what’s going on? Like it seems like there’s something underneath that there’s something before that.Alexandra: I don’t think so. Can you give me an example?

Tania: What’s the thought there?

Alexandra: It doesn’t really come as a thought initially. It’s a feeling – that’s why I call it a drive. It feels kind of desperate, and compulsive. But until that moment, I had been doing just fine. So it doesn’t feel like it’s triggered by thinking.

With your example with the bombs, of course, or the thunder, that noise was the trigger that created a lot of thinking, is what you’re saying. And in this case, there isn’t really something like that. A trigger like that.

Tania: But then it’s like, I want a piece of cake, or I want the whole cake.

Alexandra: In this case, I want rice with my dinner, and which I’ve been trying to avoid, and wine. And, there’s a bit of, one glass of wine isn’t enough. It has to be more than that. Two or three.

Tania: Okay. So, I want wine with my dinner. And then what happens?Alexandra: And then I have it, and so there’s food on my plate, and it’s too much food. I can see that it’s more food than I actually need. But I feel that feeling of desperation. And I eat it, and I feel some sense of pleasure while I’m doing that, and then afterwards, I feel sort of disgusted with myself disappointed. Unhappy.

Tania: So I don’t even know if this is the right place to live. But it feels like it might be like to go back, like so you make yourself the rice. And you know that you don’t want to be eating rice. So what happens back then, that you say, I’m going to make myself rice because

Alexandra: Oh, because it will come this feeling of desperation, this drive to overeat, it will make it go away temporarily.Tania: Hmm. Okay. And the feeling that away then. There’s something back there. That seems to me that’s the start. And it’s kind of a snowball, right of everything else that we can just try and excuse or say okay, or whatever, but there seems to be like something at the beginning. That’s rising up. And saying, if you’re calling it desperation with desperation for what,

Alexandra: I know it’s funny now. I just react to the feeling I don’t really examine it.

In a way I could say it’s desperation to just make the feeling itself go away. I feel the feeling and then I feel compelled to make it go away. And I know the thing that will make it go away, which is a large meal. And then what else what else?

Tania: How can you say the feeling that will make it go away?Alexandra: Practice. I mean, it works. You know, it does work.

Tania: There’s something behind the desperate like, a tiger I’m desperate to eat. I’m hungry, or I’m desperate to eat because I’m sad, lonely. What was that?

Alexandra: That’s really interesting. Consciously no, there’s not that feeling there. And I know what you’re pointing to. That has been the case in the past, where before I knew about the principles, I would have a bad day or have a feel angry or upset and I would eat the thing in order to soothe myself from that experience. Now I know that my moods go up and down and I’m not trying to solve a feeling or a mood are a thought at all. It’s habitual, it happens at the same time every day.

For the rest of the day, I eat just fine. And I’m happy with the way I eat. And then it just happens that right now, at this time at supper time, I feel this drive to eat compulsively.

Tania: Because again, I wonder what’s there? Right under what’s there? Because there must be something that’s there. And there’s no judgment about what’s there. Just I wonder what’s there? I wonder why I’m then having to create this decision.

I wonder why I decided that was something terrible with the thunder, see what I mean. And so I can say, well, because I was feeling a bit sensitive about the war stuff and stuff like that. But I wonder what’s there? And it’s like, there’s no, I guess, there’s no answer. But like, I would wonder, what’s there?

Because it seems like there’s some something going on there that then says, I must eat. And then there must be something afterwards, because there’s some feeling that you’re getting, and I know, talking to other women who have challenges with eating that’s a wide range. And they will say I had these cookies today. And I thought, well, I have cookies, too. But I saw them thinking about it. So was it possible that you could have the rice and then do like, Okay, I just had the rice. Full stop.

Alexandra: Theoretically, I think what I noticed is that I’m responding mindlessly to that to that feeling of…it’s really good to talk about this, because it’s making me break it down into smaller pieces.

I feel that feeling. And I know from experience that willpower doesn’t work. So fighting against it won’t accomplish anything. So I don’t do that. So I kind of take that off the out of the equation.

Do I have a lot of thinking about it afterwards? Yes, definitely. Because it feels like a problem, for sure. And there’s definitely a lot of thinking about it while it’s happening and afterwards.

The way that I’ve seen it over these years of exploring this is that the feeling of the drive to overeat is letting me know that there’s more to see about my state of mind. The feeling is always letting me know where my thinking is. But in this case, my thinking isn’t somewhere specific. It’s not that I’ve been thinking about having a bad day, and I’m trying to solve that problem.

So the best way I can find to say it is the feeling is letting me know that there’s more to see about my true nature. That’s why that quote from Sydney Banks at the beginning touched me so deeply. That there’s something in between me and my understanding of my divinity. So that’s as that’s as the best way I can describe it.

Tania: Might it be simpler than I think? Perhaps you’re describing it because you’re saying the feeling allows me to see that there’s something more to see.

How about if it’s simpler than that? And it’s just showing you that you’ve fallen off the path of truth.That’s it. It’s okay to hire another brain, but it’s just not your truth. Yeah. And then, we don’t have to, of course, go in and analyze. What’s the thought? What’s taking me off this path of truth? We can just know I’ve fallen off the path of truth. Now, what do I want to do?

No judgment, I can fall off the path of truth. A similar example that comes to mind: sometimes if I shout at my kids, and then I realize all kind of half sentence there really is a better way to do this. So I explain to them what you want, but I might keep on showing them just because I’m on a roll. And then I may apologize if you know, it’s gone too far.

Or I’ll come to them. I was like, Okay, well, what I really wanted to tell you was this. Sorry, I shouted. But it’s okay. That I shouted. So it’s okay to say or, or not, this isn’t true for me. But here I am off the path of truth.

Alexandra: I like that. It’s so simple. As you say, it’s so simple. I’ve fallen off the path of truth. Hmm. That’s really profound. I love that.

Is there anything you do to get to get back on the path of truth?Tania: No because as soon as you see that, that’s awareness rising up. You don’t need to control it. I don’t need to Okay, come up faster. You know, come on faster. So I’ll stop shouting and it’s rising, okay.

Which means that naturally, I’ll start maybe taking a dip between challenging my kids or something, because there’s a slowing down. That happens naturally. I don’t need to manage that because the awareness is the only thing we ever need. I’ve fallen on off the path of truth. Where’s the truth in this moment? No idea.

Alexandra: So you don’t go consciously looking for the truth at that moment, or insight?Tania: No, because since I’ve fallen off the path of truth, I’ll be in a great state of mind. So whatever is true isn’t necessarily going to come to me in that moment. But just the awareness, start slowing things down. So it seems that in this thing that must happen before desperation that we don’t know what it is yet, right?

There could be a time when there’s just an awareness that comes the foreground, and you say, Oh, I know this isn’t the path of truth. No judgement. Right? I could also go down the path of I’m such a bad mom. What the kids are going to think? I’m traumatizing my kids. I’m not setting a good example. That’s very unhelpful. So I wouldn’t do that. But I can totally be in the awareness if I fall off the path of truth and still doubting it. And it’s okay. Because I’m human. I’m not machine.

Alexandra: And so in a way, it seems like there’s trust there that you’ll get back on the path.Tania: At some point, yeah. That is a good point. And you have the center.

Alexandra: And then also, there’s something in there about knowing that what’s happening isn’t the truth. Maybe we’ve already said that. But I see it a new way. Just now. That’s the awareness. I guess. That yeah, that whatever’s happening. isn’t real in a way. Isn’t the truth.

Tania: Yeah, right.

Alexandra: Yeah, that is so simple. I love that.

Tania: And it can keep on because we can see at any moment, right from that moment that you feel like there’s some desperation, okay, I’ve fallen off the path of truth. And maybe you’ll see it a bit. And then you’ll see a bit more, and then you’ll see a bit more. And then it doesn’t matter when you when it really lands because it will land.

And maybe it’s when you’ve cooked the rice, but you haven’t eaten, maybe it’s after you’ve eaten the rice, but it will land and then there’ll be a gentler experience of it all. And then maybe you’ll eat the rice. And maybe you’ll have a glass of wine. And it’s just like, and then you’ll see it completely.

So there’s no judgment. But it’s there. We say don’t practice but it’s almost like the practice helps it. Because once you’ve seen it so many times, you know that’s all I need. All I need is that first glimpse of awareness. That’s all I need to see. And then I don’t need to worry about it anymore.

Because right then I’ve moved into remembering what’s true, which is not this, and I know it’s not this because then I know it’s a feeling. But like I said, you can hang out doesn’t matter.

Alexandra: And so you just repeated again: at the beginning you said the feeling is telling me what’s true. And so that drive to overeat it’s the same thing but reversed. The feeling is telling me what’s not true. It’s a yucky feeling. You feel gripped by this habit. And it’s yucky. And so that’s telling me it’s not true. This is not the path of truth.

Tania: This is the reason why I think I need to eat this. That’s making me feel yucky is not true.

Alexandra: Okay, I’m writing this down.

Tania: I guess it doesn’t matter but it’s worth remembering. We really don’t need to then but where’s the truth then? What is the truth? It’s about the one no we don’t need that tool that comes by itself that just rises to the surface. And that will appear in perfect time for us to see it.

Because, of course, if you’re in an insecure thinking state, and, and truth comes to mind, you’re not going to hear it anyway. So don’t worry about that. But once you see the awareness, open up, that’s the bit, then you’re in a better position to hear something that’s true, which may be like, Oh, maybe I’m not desperate. Maybe I don’t need that.

Alexandra: Say that again? Do you remember what you said?Tania: You may, through the opening of awareness, there’ll be a shift. Then you can say, well, maybe I’m not desperate. Maybe I don’t need to eat that. But that will come in gentler. But you don’t have to bring it in.

Like what I said before that was like, if you’re worrying about when you’re going to hear the truth, you’re not going to hear it because you’re in an insecure thinking. You don’t need to worry about it. Because even if it’s like, hearing the truth of what’s going on right now, you’re not going to hear it. So you just do the awareness, things slow down, and then there’s opening, and then all the light can come in, and then maybe the truth will appear. And maybe it won’t even appear that maybe it will pick the next morning. And it doesn’t matter.

Alexandra: Yes, because of the awareness. I think where I tripped up these last five months is I knew I needed awareness. I knew I needed an insight to shift me out of what was happening. But somehow I went about looking for it in the wrong way.

I think what it was was, I believed that feeling – the drive to overeat – was real. I believed it was real. And I believed it needed a solution. That’s what it feels like inside me now. And instead of what you’re describing feels so much lighter, holding it in a much lighter way. And just knowing this isn’t real, this isn’t the truth. And knowing that is enough.

And then as you say, I love that you say, “The truth will rise to the surface.”I can see to that. That it was just a habitual battle. I just didn’t know any better at the time not to engage. I was gripped with it. I was fighting with it, wrestling with it that whole time. Even when I was saying I’m trying to just let it go and let it be what it is. I can tell now looking back that yeah, that I was really wrestling with it.

And what you’re describing, as you, as we said, is so much simpler. Just knowing this is not the truth. And I’ll say it again. I just felt like it was something I had to fix. And so when we’re in that mindset, I’m sure that just makes it grip tighter.

Tania: Yeah, yeah. And there’s a lot of responsibility on us.

Alexandra: Yes, I was taking it up completely on myself. Say more about that.Tania: The best thing that I can do in any moment is just have the awareness. This isn’t true. Right. And that’s actually about sort of presence. I don’t know whatever would make sense to you, is it like pulling into presence? Oh, in this moment, Oh, I get that feeling not uncomfortable, calm richer. That’s it, that’s all that’s needed, right?

And then the system then just falls into place, it’s going to fall into place anyway because it could be longer after you’ve eaten the meal and the wine and the wine and it will fall into place. Or it could be quicker. And it’s just like as you spend more time in with this understanding, we fall back quicker into wellbeing into a sense of ease.

So if I can just remember, oh, what’s my awareness? Okay, that isn’t true right now. That’s it.

The system takes care of itself. I’m not responsible for it.I don’t need to find out what’s true. I don’t need to work out whether I need to eat the rice or not eat the rice. I’m just going to do whatever comes to mind anyway. Great. So it’s not on me. And it’s not spiritual bypassing? No, it’s not it’s because the system there. I can trust that it works. Because it really works. It works for you every single time.

You’re not responsible. You can use your understanding to be an awareness to remember that that’s it. That’s all it takes. It’s that quote from Sydney Banks, right, “You’re always thought away from a different feeling.” And that dropping into presence or remembering the feeling or seeing it’s not true, whatever it is, that’s going to just one switch and the rest is taken care of.

Alexandra: Wow, yeah. Oh, that’s huge. I guess I’ve been thinking it was on me. I know that insight, and I’ve known that insight isn’t on me but I feel like I’ve been responsible for everything else. Now I see you’re saying there’s a lot less for me to do, as we say.

I loved what you said about the system will take care of everything else. You’re saying the way that we are designed will take care of everything else.

Tania: It’s so loving.

Alexandra: Nice. Wow. That’s so big. Thank you.

I just see this at a whole new level now this whole thing about how the feeling we’re having is always telling us whether we’re on the path of truth or not. And yeah, just always, always getting that feedback and then if we’re not just being aware of that is enough. This isn’t a good feeling. Therefore it’s not the truth. Ah wow that’s amazing.

Tania: I wonder if now if you read the Sydney Banks quote if it means anything different for you.Alexandra: “You are a divine being walking through this life trying to find yourself.”

I think it reads the same way. The metaphor that occurred to me about that is that it was like we look through a windscreen on a car. And you know how windscreens can be foggy sometimes. And that fog is created by our thinking, and our lack of trust and how we work and all those things. And the more we see about that, the more the fog just starts to melt away.

What’s left then is our divinity we can see it clearly. Which is what we’ve been taught talking about this morning.

Tania: Because that all in you. I call it divinity in your pocket. It’s always there with you. It can never leave. There’s this divine system, beautifully designed. And it’s always working in our favor. And that’s the divine in us. And then there’s this tiny surface of freewill that we can create all this stuff with. And then we can just let it go. And remember, and then we’re back. Right, and then divine essence.

Alexandra: So beautiful. So brilliant.

Tania: Simple, simple.

Alexandra: I wish I’d asked you to help me four months ago, four and a half.Tania: I’d said it must be perfect. Because how could it be anything else? Because you may have heard it and then and then we could have had a conversation and you wouldn’t have heard it.

Alexandra: I can see that. I can just really see how despite all that I’ve learned or had learned up until now there was still an element there of battling with this feeling. Battling with that drive to overeat, wrestling with it. And as soon as we start wrestling with something, it just grips even tighter. So it’s really clear to me now, I didn’t realize of course, that I was doing that. But that’s what I was doing.

Thank you. That was really, really incredible. Very, very helpful.

Tania: Another story comes to mind.I don’t know if I shared yesterday on the call about for the Insight Timer lives we made 10 megabytes per second for the insight time alive? I was using with the spiritual team. Immediately from the spiritual team, I heard, be in touch with your ISP. And I was in touch with the ISP. But they couldn’t solve it for me, because they told me be in touch with the infrastructure provider. And then when I talked to the infrastructure provider, they’re telling us, we with a cat running around with my energy.

I’m screaming at them, the infrastructure people. And I remember as I’m screaming at them, I’m like, this isn’t the way. I don’t know why I’m doing this. But I’m screaming at them. What can I do, I was really even some foul. And I’m not very foul, but there’s some context. And, and then in the end, I got it, I couldn’t even work it out what to do, because they were like, You need to connect to the fiber. And the ISP was also like, trying to get me on to the fiber with them. And it was just like, the next one hour, I’m like, I don’t need that fiber right now. I just need the ISP to be both provide.

So the thing is that I’d heard that at the beginning. But I needed somehow goes through this whole thing. And me being aware, like sitting in their conversation, shouting, screaming at them. And being aware, this is definitely not the way. And then the ISP said their thing and I realizes, Oh, I just need you to give me the infrastructure that we’ve got right now and give me the upgrade.

Do you see I could have got caught up in that screaming? I’m so terrible. Why didn’t I just listen to that? I knew the answer was at the ISP. Why did I have to go to that whole thing? But it doesn’t matter. I don’t do that anymore. I used to though.

I used to if I was in the situation of having night sweats or whatever it was. I teach this stuff woman doing having all these symptoms again. I’d have the whole story running. And I could also just in that conversation and me screaming at these poor folks. The truth is they’ve been into my house and caused damage and whatever it is just like not really appropriate.

But it’s just, I just don’t go there. I don’t mess around in that because it doesn’t feel good. It doesn’t feel good. And maybe I just needed to have the conversation and remember how awful their service is. And then I can just feel completely fine just dropping them and going over to the ISP. And like, whatever. But at any stage that could have been a much bigger fear for stress inducing something.

And even in that shouting stuff, which could be like you trying to battle with the rice or with the wine or whatever it is. It could be that and then you can be like, Oh, but it’s just like it happens. It’s finished. And then you just calm down. Right, and so I just calm down the next morning. Oh, that’s what you need to give them a call.

Alexandra: It’s an important point, when you calm down, that’s when the solution came. It had come earlier, but that’s when you kind of figured it out.

Tania:

Right, right. But then like, it’s the same with you. And these five months, you could say, Well, why not? Why not? What if you had to just go through it? And then you can be in the place where you see something that’s going to be transformative.

Alexandra: Definitely. And there’s no sense regretting it now because it’s over. So dwelling on it is not going to help.

Tania: The family will tell you that.

Alexandra: Yes, yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you, Tanya. This has been monumental.

Tania: I’m so happy.

Alexandra: I really, really appreciate it.

Tania: We have more than 10 minutes.

Alexandra: Yeah, but I’m fixed. You fixed me.

Tania: Okay, can I get that as a testimonial?

Featured image photo © Alexandra Amor

The post It’s Not All On You with Tania Elfersy appeared first on Alexandra Amor Books & Courses.

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Insight creates change. This I know for sure. Not willpower. Not restriction. Not even information. Insight. But what happens when we get tired of waiting for insight? What if we want to change and just…aren’t? Can we cultivate insight? Is there a way to seek out insight without layering more thinking onto a situation?

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Show Notes

• Struggling with being in the back of the spiral for 5 months
• Looking for answers in universal intelligence in an active way
• Are spirit guides the same as universal intelligence?
• Is there a way to access guidance when we need it?
• Not wanting to share what I’m not embodying
• Is unresolved trauma causing what I’m experiencing?

Resources Mentioned in this Episode

• George Pransky’s new book The Secret to Mental Health
• Episode 22 of Unbroken with Maryse Godet Copans

Transcript of episodeHello, explorers, and welcome to episode 52 of Unbroken. I’m Alexandra Amor. I’m happy to have you here today with me. Thank you for joining me.

I’ve got a couple of housekeeping items before we launch in here.The first is – and probably no one cares about this but me – I’m going to change the numbering system of the podcasts. Again, I’m sure nobody cares. I used to number them like q&a Number five, and then regular number five for the interview episodes. But now that there’s just one episode per week going out, I’m just going to number them sequentially. I’m not going to break them out, like they were being broken out before. So if you’re wondering about that, and I’m sure you weren’t, there you go. Now you have an answer.

The second little bit of housekeeping I wanted to mention is:

George Pransky has a new book out, it’s called The Secret to Mental Health.

I haven’t read it yet. So this isn’t a review or anything. But I wanted to mention it in case you were interested in picking that up. George Pransky has been around this understanding for a very long time. He was one of the very first students who worked with Sidney banks. He and Roger Mills and Elsie Spittle were people right at the very beginning hearing from Mr. Banks, way before he started calling it the Three Principles. It wasn’t really called anything then.

He has specialized in relationships, he has a really good book called The Relationship Handbook.

That’s one of his earlier works. And so this one new one is called The Secret to Mental Health. I’ve downloaded the sample to my Kindle app on my iPad. So I’ll be starting in on that very soon. When I get finished with the mystery novel that I’m reading, that I’m really enjoying, that I couldn’t put down last night.

I just realized as I hit record, I haven’t figured out what the title of this episode is officially going to be when I put the little illustration up, and the blog post and everything.

What I want to talk about is universal intelligence and universal wisdom and whether or not there’s a better way, a more active way, to access that.And here’s why. As I mentioned, for the last few months, I have felt like I’ve been in the back of the spiral. And if you don’t know what I mean by that, if you go back a few q&a episodes, I talk about what that means. How our learning and growth is like a spiral, like a corkscrew shape, like a corkscrew lying on its side. And it’s always moving forward. But we have these times where we’re in the back of the of that curve. And it can seem harder, and things get tougher.

And yet, when we know that when we know that that’s just a natural part of growth, and learning and change and life and our progression through life, then it’s a lot easier to deal with, because we don’t think it’s a problem, or a something to fix or that we’re broken. It’s just part of the way stuff works just like winter is part of one of the seasons. We might not like it, some people love winter. But some people don’t but that doesn’t mean that winter is a problem or that it’s a broken part of mother nature or anything like that.

I’ve been wanting to explore or I’ve sort of very recently come to touch on this idea of exploring different ways to connect with universal wisdom because I’ve been in the back of the spiral for really for about five months. I think it started in October 2023. And this is Leap Day 2024 as I record this and put it up. I’m late recording and I’m late recording because there’s because of being in the back of the spiral.

I just feel like I’ve lost a lot of momentum in my exploration of this understanding.I don’t feel very motivated. I feel kind of like depressed except not quite as deep and dark as I’ve been depressed in the past. I just feel a little blech. And normally, I really enjoy my work and enjoy everything I do. And feeling that way has really got my attention and it’s got my attention, then it’s been going on for quite a while.

The other thing that’s been going on for quite a while is that my eating habits.They were so great last year but they have slightly gotten worse since October. And I’ve been doing and I’m going to give you an analogy about that in just a second. But I’ve been doing all the things I talked about on this podcast in order to sort of manage that or deal with it. I’ve been approaching it is that the right word? Receiving it, receiving that unwanted drive to overeat as feedback, not as a problem. It’s feedback, it’s universal wisdom, and the wisdom in my body, trying to get my attention. It’s telling me about my state of mind.

I’ve been looking upstream rather than downstream about that.Trying to as much as I can to look toward the nature of our experience as human beings. Look toward the nature of thought, rather than downstream, which is looking at how can I control this? How can I change my habits with willpower and structure and lots and lots of rules about what I can eat and candied? Because my experience tells me that that way madness lies.

There’s just no relief in that. I’ve tried that for 30 years, it didn’t work. It just made me unhappy and feel even more broken than I already did. So I don’t want to have anything to do with that. That’s just not where I’m going to look. So I’ve been doing all the things that I talk about. And really, it hasn’t shifted, it’s been five months. And that’s too long. According to me, according to this right now, it’s just been too long.

I’m suffering, and I don’t like that of course, none of us do. And so here’s what I’m also doing, which is something a little wacky, and you can decide whether you want to stay on board with me or not.

A friend of mine got interested in mediumship recently.I was into all those sorts of things when I was in the cult. We talked about all that kind of stuff, channeling and spirit guides, and all those things. I had really shut that part of myself away because of the associations that I have with the cult. But when my friend started exploring, and I got interested as well, and was listening to some podcasts and it was a good distraction, actually, from the suffering that I was experiencing, about overeating.

I started to think and this is very recently, like, within the last week, we talk about and I talk about universal wisdom, and universal intelligence, and the intelligence of the universe that is within all of us and within everything all the time. And it’s never separate from any of us. And so that got me thinking, well, the other thing I often talk about is that insight has its own timing.

In my personal embodied experience, insight has been the thing that has created change in my life. And yet I felt at the mercy of when it would arrive. And it has done a lot. And it has created tremendous change in my life, which is fantastic.

What if there was a more conscious, more mindful, more active way of tapping into insight of tapping into that universal intelligence?So then, when I started to think about the subject of spirit guides and the way that mediums talk about spirit guides. And it’s always struck me as kind of this magical mystical thing that maybe some people have access to, and some people don’t, or some people have a talent for, and some people don’t. And or some people rely on that guidance and others don’t.

I started to think given that we are all one, we are all made of stardust, and the trees and the flowers and the earth, everything we are made of stardust with, the universe is made of stardust, and we are as well. And that’s a physical representation. Or way to say that we are all connected, we are all aspects of the universe that has come to this world to have this experience. And we’re all connected in that way, inside that Universal Intelligence. And we’re all connected by things like love. What if this opened a doorway, this idea of spirit guides, and I’m using finger quotes, Not to disparage them at all. But just to point out that, this new idea that I’ve it’s not a new idea, it’s an old idea, but it’s something new that I’ve stumbled across.

What if there was a way to access our guidance, and to initiate insight or receive insight, be more open to it when we need it?In a more active way than I’ve learned about with the three principles. So that’s what I’m exploring lately. I don’t know if that’s if this is going to be a thing, if it’s going to help or if it’s a distraction. I suspect there’s a way to go into this in a very head like way, with a lot of thinking about it, and trying to force things to happen.

And then there must be a way to go about it, which is what I’m trying to do, in a very heartfelt way. In a very calm, quiet, not needing to add more thinking to a situation, but listening. And that that idea of listening, came about via one of the mediumship podcasts that I was listening to. The host talks about how there’s that in meditation, this is her approach her practice, that it’s meditation is really about listening. And of course, she’s talking about listening to her guides, or angels or whatever. And so I translated that into what if it was a practice for listening to universal intelligence, especially around when we’re having a challenge with something like an unwanted habit.

I don’t have any answers to those questions today, or to all those what ifs, but I’m here to tell you that that’s what I’m exploring.I’m doing it out of a bit of a sense of frustration with this, spending so much time in the back of the spiral at this point in my life. Because I felt like, I really felt like last year, the my overeating habit was gone. And now it’s back, it’s back in a very small way. And it’s very specific, in that at supper time, I’m just eating a little too much. I’m eating, as I’ve talked about rice and potatoes, and I’m having wine with those things. And again, not that there’s anything wrong with any of those things with any of those foods. We don’t want to look in that direction and demonize wine or rice.

But I very clearly know the difference between when I’m eating in a way that’s healthy.That’s not a response to the drive to overeat. And right now at supper time that’s not happening. I am eating in response to the drive to overeat. There’s a real need in me at that time of day to comfort myself with those types of foods and again; not a problem. And I know that and those things are the valve right on the pressure cooker, they are a solution, they are letting pressure off. So my question becomes, okay, then tell me what, where that pressure exists, tell me not so much what I can do about it, but provide me the shift in consciousness that I need, in order to see things differently.

Sitting around waiting for that shift in consciousness, that insight just stopped has stopped working for me.So this is what I’m exploring. Can I turn on that tap? Can I listen for insight and promote it in my life, and in my quest for peace and, and resolution of an overeating habit. And then related to this, too, so there are a couple of other things I wanted to say about that. One of them is that I think one of the reasons that the passion has gone out of me about what I’m talking about, and sharing on this podcast and elsewhere, and teaching about these three principles, is because for these last five months, I feel like a bit of a fraud.

I feel like I had it handled, and then the problem came back in a big way.It doesn’t feel like I can be someone who can talk about resolving an overeating habit. At this point in my career, if I haven’t done that. Up until now I’ve been sharing everything I’m learning and the habit was shrinking. It was just gradually getting smaller and smaller, and these different habits that I’ve talked about were falling away, which is fantastic. I think it was great that I talked about it as that was happening.

And then and this is probably just a mental construct, but and then I was in a place last year where it felt like it was resolved. And now it feels like it’s back again, just in that very specific time of day. But still, I don’t think I can be talking about having resolved and overeating habit when I haven’t done it, when it’s come back in that way. So that makes me sad.

I can’t share what I’m not embodying. That’s not fair to talk about that kind of stuff.

Have the principles made a huge positive impact in my life? Absolutely.And they’ve practically eliminated so many other issues that I had, one of them being anxiety disguised as urgency. So I could definitely talk about that. This overheating issue is kind of been the core thing that I’ve been wanting to resolve. And on that note, then also, the other thing I can say, too, is that I’m really exploring feedback, because it feels to me this idea that our habits are providing feedback about our state of mind, because it really feels to me and I mentioned this a couple of episodes ago, like I’m down to this sludgy part in the bottom of the cup. And so that maybe there are some really core issues there that need to be resolved. I just don’t know, I don’t know if that’s the truth.

I know that some practitioners of the three principals talk about how, and I shouldn’t maybe I shouldn’t even really say this, because I’m not really familiar with all their work. But a couple of people who have been on the show, I’ve seen them on social media talking about how the principles don’t help resolve absolutely everything and that our lives are not all made up of thought. We don’t entirely live in the world of our thinking, not in the world of our experiences.

And that’s fine. I mean, if that’s what they want to explore, I’m not judging them at all. We all have to do our own thing and explore what’s the truth for us.

It has occurred to me to wonder, is there some trauma left in my body that needs to be healed in some other way?Is that’s why the habit is there? It’s trying to alert me to it’s trying to give me feedback about that. That’s that when I refer to the sludge in the bottom of the coffee cup, that’s what I’m referring to. I went down a trauma rabbit hole last year, at some point, meaning that I looked into somatic therapy quite a bit. And then it just felt like I was layering more thinking into a situation, and that was unnecessary. I didn’t need to do that. So I stopped looking in that direction.

All I have right now is questions. I don’t have answers.Which is fine. I mean, that’s what life is about, right? And these are the times in life when things get tough. This is when we learn, when I I’m frustrated and flailing and failing. This is the good stuff, this is when I will really learn and hopefully have insights. And I have been having some, they just haven’t been enough to really shift that problem. And so actually, now that I’m saying this, I realized too, this is a really beautiful, important time. Maybe I shouldn’t say important, but this is a really beautiful time.

If I can find some clarity about this, then being able to offer that to the world would be would be a gift.I saw a little movie trailer recently, where one of the characters says,

“We don’t save ourselves, we save each other.”

And that really struck me in the heart, I love that, and I’ve always felt, it’s always been so important to me, to try to share whatever I learned whatever it is, and I’ve always been that way. Even when I was a self-help junkie, trying to share books and stuff that I learned with other friends who were suffering. So that was one thing I wanted to say.

And then the other thing is that the principles aren’t a well… here’s how I’ll say this:

There ain’t no cure for life.That’s a motto I should have up on my wall, because it’s something that I returned to again and again. Life for anyone is never ever going to be perfect and completely smooth and happy and joyful in every single minute. I don’t even think that should be our objective. I find that because of the principles now that I can really ride out the really difficult times with so much more peace and ease. But that doesn’t mean that the principles have eliminated any kind of struggle or difficulty from my life. I still have challenges. And that’s not the principles’ objective. They’re simply describing what is happening with our experience.

There is an element of that when we understand that description it really does ease our suffering because as our thinking slows down and settles down and there’s less and less and less of it, then a were just so much calmer and quieter. And we’re more open to insight.

I was reflecting back on, for example, Episode 22 of Unbroken when I talked to Maryse Godet Copans. She has been a person who has always really struggled with anxiety and symptoms of anxiety. And for a long time those symptoms because of her understanding of the principles really reduced or went away. And then in the episode we talked about how she had a period where they came back. And so does that mean that that they failed that the principles failed her? No it doesn’t seem to me and she didn’t seem to feel that way either. Life was just happening.

And she says that in the episode, life is just lifing. And it really it seemed that the return of her symptoms really deepened her understanding of what her experience is made of, and what her suffering is made of, and how that suffering can be alleviated by understanding where her experience is coming from. If you haven’t listened to that episode, I highly recommend it.

So in other words, she can be a person who can talk about reducing anxiety symptoms, I think, completely fairly and a completely authentically. So is it the same? Is it the same for me?

Can I talk about reducing an overeating habit without having completely resolved it?Here’s the analogy that I talked about earlier in the episode that came to me that I want to use. First of all, I’m going to interrupt myself, and say that so many unwanted habits are things that we can let go of entirely, and there’s a real bright line there. That’s a legal term. But you’re either doing the habit or you’re not.

So for example, binge eating; you’re either binge eating or you’re not, and then you know the difference. You’re either smoking or you’re not. If you’re had problems with alcoholism, you’re either drinking, or you’re not. And there’s a real black and white essence to that.

Overeating isn’t quite the same.But I would say, for any, maybe you can relate to this, if you have an overeating habit. I know the difference when I’m eating just for even for pleasure, or I’m just having breakfast so that I can get on the road or do whatever it is, I’m going to do. I know the difference between that feeling versus when I’m eating because of this drive to overeat that I feel within me that feels compulsive, it feels a little bit out of control. I feel like a bit of a bottomless pit.

Alcoholics sometimes say one drink was too many. But 10,000 was not enough. It’s that kind of a feeling like there’s not enough food in the world to soothe this feeling that I’m having. So in a way with an overeating habit, there is a bright line. But at the same time, eating is not a habit that we can give up.

We can’t just stop eating the way that someone can stop smoking.So there is that element to it. And along so along with all of this sort of thinking, I had this analogy the other day, and imagine that someone is a smoker, and that they smoke three packs of cigarettes a day. And they’ve tried for 30 years to quit. And the smoking problem really drives them crazy. And then imagine that they discovered the Three Principles. And over a period of years, it really changes so much about themselves and about their anxiety, which is one of the things they were using the smoking to deal with.

They end up going from smoking three packs of cigarettes a day, to just smoking three cigarettes a day. So at the end of the day, before supper they have a cigarette, after separate they have a cigarette, and then before bed, and that’s it. And whereas before they were smoking all day, every day, all the time. That is a huge change that that person has gone through. It is so much better for their health. You know what they’ve done all that change that they’ve made, they’ve clearly had huge shifts inside to be able to make such a dramatic difference to their smoking habit.

And throughout the rest of the day. They don’t care about smoking at all. They don’t think about it. They don’t crave it. It just doesn’t matter to them at all.

Is that person entitled to say that they’ve resolved their smoking habit?So that’s the analogy I’m using about myself. And in my mind, I don’t think so. Is that person still a smoker? Like I say, have they experienced huge change? And is our thing so, so much better? Yes, of course. Absolutely. Can they say that they’ve resolved that habit? No, they can’t. So that’s kind of where I’m at.

I can’t, at the moment really say that I’ve resolved this habit. And with symptoms, like I talked about with Maryse in episode 22. I don’t know, this is something I’m wrestling with lately. Is that different? Are symptoms of anxiety different than the drive to overeat? And I want to say, no, they’re not. That’s life coming to life in both cases, inside that person. And it’s a thing that can make the person feel broken, or like there’s something wrong. Hmm, this would be a good topic, maybe for a future episode, just comparing and contrasting those two things.

So in other words, let me say, I think that Maryse is perfectly entitled to talk about her anxiety that she used to have, and the fact that it came back isn’t a failing on her part. I think she’s still entitled to teach and share about the principles. But for somehow, somehow, for myself, I’m not giving myself that grace, which is interesting.

It’s been good to talk this through with you today. Thank you. I knew some of what I wanted to say today, but not all of it. So that’s really helpful.

This is all just such a mystery, isn’t it? Life can be so mysterious, and so simple yet at the same time, and I guess I’m just feeling at the moment, like I don’t have any answers. And I’m feeling you know, in the soup, myself, and in the back of the spiral. But as I say, this is the place for learning.

So anyway, that’s, that’s all I have for today. Thank you for listening. Thank you for being here. This has been really good for me to share. I hope that of course, as always, I hope that you have found it helpful. And if you have any questions or comments or anything about anything I’ve said, Do you want me to clarify anything?

If you want to add anything, please do so you can go to go to AlexandraAmor.com/questions. And fill out the form there and I will answer happily for you.

Until next time, take care. I hope you’re doing well. And I will see you next week. Bye.

Featured image photo by Tengyart on Unsplash

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Author, therapist and coach Lori Carpenos has seen that what affects our relationships the most is our state of mind. When the couples she works with see that ‘working on’ their relationship is not the answer to a loving relationship, that’s when everything changes.

Lori Carpenos opened a private individual, couples and family counseling practice, in 1994, to pass along something she had stumbled upon in 1985, when she was privileged to meet the late Sydney Banks. As a result, her life changed in ways she could never have imagined at that time.

She maintains a private practice in West Hartford, CT as a therapist, life coach, business consultant, facilitator, and writer.

You can find Lori Carpenos at 3PrinciplesTherapy.com.

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Show Notes

• Starting out as an art teacher
• Resonating with Sydney Banks’ exploration of innate mental health
• On recognizing that ‘working’ on a relationship only makes things harder
• How we all fall back into love when our minds are quiet
• Getting on the wrong bus with our thinking but knowing we can choose a different ride
• How we all always have all the love we need within us
• How arguments originate from our state of mind
• On being single and our relationship to thought about that
• How we are all in relationship with our thinking

Transcript of Interview with Lori CarpenosAlexandra: Lori Carpenos, welcome to Unbroken.

Lori: Oh, thank you, Alexandra. It’s nice to be with you.

Alexandra: It’s great to have you here. I’m so happy to meet you.

Tell us a bit about your background and how you came to find the Three Principles.Lori: Well, they actually found me. It was quite by happenstance. I’d never heard of Sydney Banks, never heard of the three principles. I was an art teacher in Massachusetts, and I got a master’s in expressive arts therapy. I had this idea I wanted to do art therapy. And the place for that was California.

So I was 25 years old, and I decided to quit my tenured art teacher job. Much to the dismay of my parents. They tried to stop me. But I felt called in retrospect, when I realized it was not to be an art therapist, because I’m driving across the country. Because California was known as the land of New Thought and new things. And art therapy was supposedly really big.

I get halfway across. And I’m listening to a program, NPR, where they’re talking about a bill that had just passed in California, eliminating art, music, all the extra curricular activities in hospitals, schools, and I couldn’t believe it. It was like I was hearing something that was not true. And I’m thinking well, I’m halfway there. I already quit my job. I don’t have a job back on the east coast. So what do I do?

I decided to keep going. I didn’t have a job. I knew one person in Northern California where I was headed to. No job, a cocktail waitress with my master’s degree my pocket. And one thing led to another. Well it’s a long story not to get into. But the crux of the matter was, I got into a relationship with a boyfriend, who had gotten the degree from California trans personal psychology, and he was heading to Florida, to the Advanced Human Studies Institute, which you probably heard was the first training place in, in, in the world, actually, at that time. So I thought, well I’ll go with him, of course, I’ll go with him, I’ll be closer to my family, then.

I went out to California and this is now three years later. I did get a few part time jobs as an art therapist in the VA hospital, and also in Children’s Hospital at Stanford University. And both of those were really interesting situations. So I landed at the Advanced Human Studies Institute, and I’m going to a talk by this unknown person to me, Sydney Banks, and it was like somebody turned a light on in my head, is the only way I could explain it.

I suddenly realize that the trajectory of my life is not completely up to me. That there’s some flow that is beyond me. And what I realized later, is how else to describe something like that, but I was drawn, I was driven to drive all that distance, by myself alone in my car with whatever belongings I had at the time. I realized later that it was really was a calling to be part of this understanding the which now we know is the whole paradigm shift in psychology.

Alexandra: And what happened next? Where did where did this road take you?Lori: At the Advanced Human Studies Institute, and I wasn’t a student, but my boyfriend was a student for a year, and I saw that he was calmer, more settled down. And so I decided to take the year training. And that’s where I met so many people from that are familiar to you and some of the listeners.

I learned from them as much as I did from Syd Banks because they would have insights. And I would realize, yeah, I see that true. When you hear truth, everybody knows that. It resonates, it makes perfect sense. You can’t debate it.

Alexandra: I’m just curious, was he there all the time, or was he coming and going?Lori: He would come and go, yeah, he would come and go. Roger Mills was there all the time. I know you did an interview with Jack about Modelo, the project that Roger did in the in these projects. And I wish there at that time, but I did not meet the people who were involved in Modelo until a conference many years later. And just the stories were so incredible, incredible how people’s lives changed.

What was called in there was a newscast about it and they called it the wild wild west. That’s what modelo was like the Wild Wild West with drug dealers and shootings and all kinds of things. And to see these women, they were mostly women who were heads of the household, to the children. And at this conference, one of the women said that we all thought that we were third generation welfare recipients. That’s who we thought we were. So that’s how we behaved in the world.

We behave according to how we think of ourselves. And then she said, one of them discovered that they were had a had a program nearby that they could get a GED. A high school certificate, and one by one, they did that. Some of them actually became social workers. Some of them to this day, you can see them on YouTube that they are providing services to other people who are troubled and don’t know who they really are.

Alexandra: Wow. Oh, I didn’t realize that. That’s really interesting.

Where did your professional life take you?Lori: Ah, good question. Well, there was a very good friend of mine, Hazel Fosse, and people will recognize her name, she’s no longer with us. But Hazel suggested that I get a license as a marriage and family therapist, because that was a way that I could share what I had learned and what was helping me so much, and all of my relationships. And so I did that. I followed her suggestion, how to get some extra courses and, and do an internship.

I spent a year at the Advanced Human Studies Institute after my year training as a counselor. And I got a license as a marriage and family therapist. And that’s pretty much where you know what I’ve been doing ever since.

Alexandra: Let’s back up a little bit.

Tell me a little bit about what your life was like before you learned about this understanding, before you met Sydney Banks. And then what it was like after.Lori: Well, that’s another great question, because I didn’t realize that I was depressed. I had a lot of fun, being an art teacher and being in Boston at the time, and I had friends and boyfriends. But in my master’s program, it was recommended that we all get into therapy. So I did that. I got a diagnosis. I got a diagnosis.

They sent me to the Jung Institute in San Francisco. I took a battery of tests, and they came out with dysthymia and long term depression. So that explained to me that everybody’s life was not difficult. Right, I guess so then I started to think, Oh, I really have a problem. And so you can imagine what a relief it was to be around other people who were learning from Syd, learning that there’s no such thing. There’s no such thing as mental health disorders.

There’s a wonderful book coming out about that and when I was entering this world of therapy, in order for people’s insurance to pay therapists, you have to give them a diagnosis. I was so against that. But I discovered I could use a diagnosis called the adjustment disorder. And I tell people, that’s the diagnosis I use because we all go through adjustments in life.

I’ll never forget what Syd said. He said that, in the future there will be one diagnosis to us. And it will be the misuse of the ability to think. And that made perfect sense to me because I did not go from having a label as depressed to going to having a pretty carefree life. I can’t say some of it was overnight, but over the years, it just keeps getting better. Because I see when I get tangled up in my personal thinking, and I let it go it’s like, why would you hold onto a hot rock? Can you drop it, you’d let it go? Because you don’t want it to burn your hand?

It’s the same thing with thinking that there’s something wrong with you and thinking about all the things you don’t like, and all the judgments and expectations we take on about how life is supposed to be. And to find out that it’s all coming from me. The outside world is not telling me that I’m not good enough, or there’s something wrong with well, so I’m for people diagnose if somebody else is telling me there’s something wrong with me. So it was me telling myself a lot of hogwash, and believing it.

I sometimes get these thoughts, well, you could do better but then I don’t have to believe it. I don’t have to act as though that’s who I am. It’s not who I am. And that’s really what I came to see is that we all, everybody has, in essence, a spiritual essence that goes far beyond what we concoct with our brain with our ability to think.

We have this amazing ability to think. I couldn’t be here with you if I couldn’t think my way here. But boy, do we use it against ourselves unnecessarily and, and to wake up to that, and there’s not a person in this world, no matter what their circumstances have been. Because I’ve worked with people with the most unbelievable traumatic events in their past. And they see through it, that that’s over. And, in fact, they wake up to the fact that they have what it took to get to go beyond it, to get past it to leave it behind them.

Alexandra: You mentioned going into marriage and family therapy, and I saw this mentioned on your website that one of the things you want couples to learn is that they don’t need to work on their relationship. And so tell us about that.

It sounds so contrary to the standard way that people go when they are having trouble in their relationship.Lori: Oh, yeah. It’s the standard way, right? Couples come in, and will write to me or they’ll contact me we have to work on our relationship. And when I get to talk to them, I can explain to them that the idea of working on anything, is typically not very pleasant. That you have to do something that you don’t really want to do.

So, when anybody learns that, it just takes getting back into a quiet mind. A quiet state of mind that’s not judging their partner, that’s not blaming the other person. Because the judgment and blame is coming from us, from the thinker. It doesn’t come from out there. It doesn’t come from another person doesn’t even come from an event. I mean, bad things happen. But it’s how we think about it. And how long we choose to think about something that we can’t fix.

Alexandra: Does this idea really surprise couples at first?Lori: Some but some it lands on them like it makes perfect sense, yeah, we’ve been thinking that we’re really in trouble. And we have to do something that’s going to be awful and time consuming and expensive. And so they build up this aversion to him even talking to me. And an aversion to talking to each other. Leave that, in, that’s just really something now, people will be show afraid to talk to their partner. And there is not anything that a person has to be afraid to share when they’re in a loving, peaceful state of mind.

Alexandra: I imagine if you’re seeing that the relationship is a problem and then going in and talking about it, of course, that would feel yucky. It wouldn’t feel like a good thing to do.

I imagine when people see the difference of going into something with a calm, quiet, state of mind must be quite revelatory.Lori: When you think about it, that, like you say, a problem. If people think that they have a problem, it’s just going to get them all worked up and get them thinking about whatever they think the problem is. But people can relate to this, because they know that they have had moments where they weren’t thinking problems. And it was like, they fell back in love with their partner. Yeah, out of the blue, that their head clears, their mind clears and they get a feeling of falling back in love. This love is always there.

We’ve all heard not just in the Three Principles community, but in so many spiritual communities that that’s where we are. And we can witness that. When you look at children and babies. They go right back into love.

Alexandra: Yes. Right.

Lori: They go right back. They cry, they need their diaper changed. They’re hungry. That’s taken care of. And then they’re just smiling. Nobody teaches babies to smile. Where does that come from?

Alexandra: And you know what it occurs to me, there’s that famous couples therapist, and the name is escaping me right now, who had the Love Lab in Seattle? Do you know who I’m talking about? Well, I shouldn’t have brought it up. Anyway.

They said that they could observe people in couples, and they could tell if the couple would last, or if they wouldn’t, just by observing them for a while, a day or two. And the premise was that the people would kind of come to the relationship from a loving place, is what I’m seeing now. But what came out of it was they created a system for kind of doing that artificially.

I think what I’m seeing is that they had seen what we’re talking about, and sort of we’re just framing it slightly differently.Lori: I do you know what you’re referring to, okay and they were observing couples who were angry at each other. And then they would say, well, this couple isn’t going to last not realizing that it’s a temporary condition. And when they observed couples who loved each other, even though they were mad at each other, they would say, Well, I love him to death, but he really upsets me.

And they had the idea that that would last and like you said, they started to try to create that artificially. Like we call that outside-in in the Three Principles community because it’s trying to use a technique or create something that’s not coming from them.

That’s why it’s such a paradigm shift in psychology that recognizing that everything, The Good, the Bad, the Ugly, is coming from us. Whatever thinking we’re in, yes, you can’t get away from your thinking, but you can realize that it’s like you just got on the wrong thought wave. Like getting on the wrong bus. You get on a better bus that’s going to take you to a better part of town, where you want to be?

Alexandra: That’s such a good analogy. I love that.

One of the things that you also mentioned on your website is that we are expressions of universal love. You’ve touched on this with the analogy about babies. And how when we know this, it can ease our suffering.

Could you talk about that a little bit?Lori: I love that question. When you realize that you already are – you could call that universal love. – you’re not looking for somebody else to complete you. To give you love. You already have all the love you ever need.

Is it wonderful to be in a loving relationship, exchanging the feelings of love? Sharing the feelings of love? Absolutely. But it’s not necessary to have a beautiful life, because you we already have everything we need.

So it’s impossible to blame somebody if I’m not feeling good. Makes no sense. Who am I going to blame about that? Now I could look at the person and who’s saying nasty things to me. And I could say, well, of course, I feel bad because he or she is saying something really nasty. But it doesn’t tell me that anymore.

What it tells me is the state of mind that that person is in. I know you’ve seen this, too, that you could still love somebody who’s saying something nasty to you, because it doesn’t say anything about you. It just tells you the state of mind of the speaker. And you want to love them more than because you feel bad for them that they’re a bad state.

Alexandra: I love that and I love that you said we always have all the love we need. That’s such an important point.

Coming to a relationship with that awareness, I imagine, it’s like having a completely full cup, as coaches say. You’re completely filled up yourself. And I just imagine that that changes the dynamics of a relationship so much.

People wouldn’t be looking for the other person to be all the things they need them to be.Lori: Right. I hear a lot from couples about how one feels controlled by the other. And when that person labeled as controlling, realizes that they don’t need their partner to be a certain way in order to live a nice life. Then they can let their partner live their life the way they should live in. They’re not dependent on how their partner lives their life.

Alexandra: It’s just lovely.

I’m assuming you see transformation in relationships when people start to get this.Lori: Yes, especially I would have to say the old therapy model is one hour a week. And what happens with couples that they’ll wake up during a session if they come one hour a week. And then they go about their lives. And they’re sucked back into the prevalent thinking in society, which is, before this paradigm shift, which is out there, we have to fix what’s out there, we have to fix the other person. So it’s almost like a rubber band.

But when people come for longer stretches of time, that makes the big difference. And when they come to like for an intensive, it’s called different things, retreat. I like that. I like that term. So they’ll come for even just three, four days, sometimes longer, but three, four days in a row, and I will work specifically with them. That makes the biggest difference, then they go back and the world is still the way it is, but they don’t get sucked into it. Because they’ve really seen what a difference it makes to just really be in the best state of mind that they can find in any given moment. And nobody’s there 100% of the time but when we’re not there, we know to not take ourselves so seriously.

Alexandra: I was going to say over the course of three or four days, there would be that natural ebb and flow of our state of mind. And I imagine you can point out to them, though, this is what’s happening.

Lori: Exactly. Even in an hour session, there’s an ebb and flow. And I can point out to them, you see how the differences right now, are you feeling? Yeah, that’s a good point. Because people don’t realize, when they go into the lower stage, or into a higher state of mind, they don’t realize it until it’s pointed out to them. It’s like riding an elevator of life.

Alexandra: What do you think is our biggest misunderstanding about being in a relationship?Lori: I think that people don’t realize how much they want a connection. Everybody wants a connection. As they felt connected in the beginning where they wouldn’t still be together. And then they lose the connection because of expectations and dissatisfactions and judgments and criticisms. And then show connection is what people are looking for. And they don’t realize that they’re the ones that are creating the disconnect. Again, so now it’s coming from them.

And another thing I’ll mention too, which was fun, it’s in the book that I co-authored with Christine, The Secret of Love, that we both laughed, because we’re both marriage and family therapists. And people always come to us saying that we have to work on our communication skills, that’s been the catchphrase in society for so long.

And it’s erroneous, it’s wrong. It’s not communication. It’s listening. People don’t have a problem communicating, they communicate when they’re angry. And it’s a whole different thing when you communicate when you’re in a nice state of mind.

Alexandra: Yes, I can see that when we’re in a low state of mind. We tend to get really chatty, I know, I do. I go on and on and on and I can feel my mind circling back around to the beginning of an argument when it gets to the end. And you’re right, it’s the listening, though, that makes the big difference.

One other question, I want to ask you about relationships.

Do you think it’s possible to create positive change if only one person in the couple is interested in this understanding?Lori: Another great question. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And the perfect example of that is the very first chapter in The Secret of Love. And it’s on Chip and Jan, the couple and from Saltspring. They talk about this on YouTube videos. So it’s it publicly known that Chip was very resistant. Jan just saw something so deep when she heard talks by Syd Banks, it just kept getting reinforced more and more for her that her state of mind was everything.

Even when he was out of sorts, that she might get into an argument for a moment and quickly say that’s it. I’m not doing this with you. So let’s talk later, when we’re both feeling better, and she go off she do her thing and, and come back and over a period of time, and it wasn’t right away.

Chip himself said that he was very stubborn. He would say, I don’t want to know about this thought business. I don’t want to hear about it. But something clicked somewhere along the way.

Alexandra: Oh, that’s so great. And because it’s inside out, it has to do with ourselves and our thinking that even if the other person never came on board, it would still make a huge difference to the to the one person who is exploring this.

Lori: Absolutely. So that’s also part of expectation, not expecting the other person to have a higher state of mind to be in a nice, loving, calm, peaceful state. You’d be where you want to be without needing the other person to be anywhere other than where they are in the moment.

Alexandra: I imagine that has an effect too, on the other partner. Someone I interviewed recently on the podcast, referred to it as a tuning fork.

If my vibration has changed, and it’s peaceful and calm, that probably has an effect on the other person in the relationship.Lori: Right. And then every so often, you’ll hear well, I want some of that. Show me what you’re learning. That’s what happened to me when I saw my boyfriend’s state of mind. And that’s when I got involved. And I said, Okay, I’m going to do a year – and it doesn’t take a year anymore. Back then we had no resources, there was no videos there.

Today, there’s just so much. People don’t have to move from West Coast to East Coast. And the group of us would travel to hear said, wherever he was speaking, and now you could just sit in your living room and turn on YouTube. A whole different world.

Alexandra: I’m so grateful for technology, the way that it can share everywhere all over the world. It’s lovely.

You have you potentially have a new podcast coming up for single people. Tell us about that.Lori: Somebody else came up with the name and I love it. It’s called Taking the BS out of Being Single. And that was an outgrowth from a course that I do called Finding Deep Connections. And that’s for single people as well.

Single people have a lot of thinking about why they need to be single, why they don’t want to be single, why they shouldn’t be single. There’s a lot of thinking going on in that world. As a marriage and family therapist, and just a person living in life, to see that it’s always a relationship with our own thinking. Whether we’re single partner married, married for 40 years, it’s always the relationship we have with our own thinking. The person is next to us, or a 100 miles away.

It’s so simple. So maybe it’ll just be one episode of the podcast. That’d be it. It’s your relationship with your thinking. There you go.

Alexandra: As we begin to wrap up here, is there anything that we haven’t touched on that you would like to share?Lori: I don’t think so. You really covered so much. Maybe just if I could tie it together.

Everything we talked about is in relationship with their own thinking, the state of which is the state of mind we live in. And it’s understanding how that works, how we work as thinking beings, given an amazing gift to think. And the free will to think up, down or sideways.

We have the free will when I’ve had clients who say sometimes I just want to be bummed out, and I hang out there for a while. And I say, Great, as long as you know that it’s you’re choosing that. There’s no judgment. No judgment. But the trick is knowing that somebody is not bummed out because of what somebody said to them, or a situation or an event. We’ve seen people rise above situations that are beyond imagination.

Alexandra: Thank you for pulling that all together. That’s great.

Where can we find out more about you in your work?Lori: Well, my website is under construction right now. It’s going through a lift since it’s been around for a long time. And I kept adding things to it. And now it’s all over the place. So we’re pulling it all together. But it is 3principlestherapy.com.

Alexandra: Perfect, okay. And I will put links in the show notes. And so people will be able to find it there. And your book is called The Secret of Love.

Lori: Unlock the Mystery, Unleash the Magic. There’s another book on Amazon called The Secret of Love, and it’s a romance novel.

Alexandra: Thank you so much, Laurie. It’s been so great chatting with you today.

Lori: I really enjoyed it, too. Thank you for inviting me.

Alexandra: My pleasure. All right. Take care. Bye. Bye.

Lori: Bye bye. Thank you.

Featured image photo by Daniel Mirlea on Unsplash

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In instances where our bodies and our innate wisdom are speaking to us, it can be tempting to see those messages as problems. But when we see them for the wisdom they carry and stay open to the messages these ‘problems’ have for us, we begin to see that they are always trying to help…

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Nikon Gormley had achieved success as a top-level athlete, but he was still searching for answers. He wanted to feel calm during his taekwondo matches so he began looking in all the usual places. It wasn’t until he discovered the Three Principles that things began to click into place for him. Now he coaches others…

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When we’re looking to change an overeating habit we can innocently get caught up in the noise in our heads that talks about diet plans and strategies for mastering new habits and willpower. Alternatively, what creates real change – including dropping an unwanted habit – is learning to pay attention to the ‘signal’ that is…

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Psychologist and author, Dr. Gail Brenner, shares about the healing power of being present and compassionate with whatever is going on within us. And how when we begin to recognize that there is no ‘out there’ in our lives – there is only our perception – that we begin to suffer less. Gail Brenner’s interest…

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In this excerpt from It’s Not About the Food I share a story about the surprising thing I learned at an Equus training and how it impacts the drive to overeat. Learn more about the book here. You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are…

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When coach, speaker and author Jack Pransky first heard about the changes happening in the community of Modello, Florida, he knew he had to find out more. Pretty quickly he ended up writing a book about Roger Mills’ work using the Three Principles in that community, which was radically changing lives. Since then he’s written…

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It can be so easy to get caught up in the drama of life and experience suffering because of this. But when we begin to explore the nature of our thinking and see that it is a spiritual energy coming to life within us, our suffering eases. You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or…

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Coach and author Dicken Bettinger has spent most of his adult life sharing the simple, yet not generally understood, simplicity of human psychology that he first learned from Sydney Banks. Dicken’s message is simple: at any given moment, we are all either caught up in our thinking, or we are connected to the well-being and…

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When we expect change to happen as a result of will-power naturally it looks like a good idea to choose a day on the calendar to begin making that change. But, really, change happens via insight, and that can happen any day of the year. You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on…

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After rapid success in her own coaching business, coach Grace Kelly now helps others wanting to do the same. She has learned the value of trusting our own innate wisdom, and also the importance of taking care of ourselves before we can help others. Grace Kelly is a transformational coach.She left her job as a…

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Take a moment and extend yourself a little kindness today. You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below. Transcript of episode Hello Explorers, and welcome to Q&A episode 45 of Unbroken. I’m Alexandra Amor. As this goes out, it’s Christmas Day, 2023. Whether you…

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Alex Linares describes herself as a lifelong seeker. She has always been curious about how life works and what it means. When she stumbled across the Three Principles she realized that there was no more need for seeking, or even for self-help. Alex Linares is a scientist and lifelong seeker; curious to understand life, purpose…

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When we’re trying to change something like an overeating habit, it can feel good to take lots of action. But how many times have we failed when approaching it that way? And what if there’s another way? You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are…

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Coach and author Amanda Jones explores the simplicity behind our human experience and how understanding this can free us from suffering with things like bulimia, anxiety, depression, binge eating and more. Amanda Jones is the author of Uncovery: A New Understanding Behind Radical Freedom from Eating Disorders and Depression and explores with clients their true…

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The holiday/end-of-year season can be fraught with so much, including extra temptation for those of us with an unwanted overeating habit. Here then are three tips for navigating this time of year, including remembering your innate peace and how it is always with you. You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes,…

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A small business can be a really accurate reflection of that’s business’s owner. So when an entrepreneur is fraught with insecurity that is going to show up in the business. Marlene Cameron helps business owners and entrepreneurs to connect with their innate wisdom and resilience and to see that their moment-to-moment thinking doesn’t need to…

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Are diets the right tool when we want to lose weight? They tend to be the only one we use, but what if there’s an alternative? What if diets are actually contributing to the suffering we experience about food? And what if there were an alternative way to approach resolving an overeating habit? You can…

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Bill and Connie DeKramer have long worked in the field of offering solutions about healthy eating and healthy living. But they found that there was a piece missing when it came to helping their clients find lasting results. Then they discovered the 3 Principles of innate health and everything fell into place, for them and…

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What should we do when an unwanted habit that has been getting better suddenly rears its head again? Contrary to what we might believe, when this occurs it’s good news. It means there’s more for us to see about our innate well-being. It’s also a very natural part of the learning and growing process. You…

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When we have a challenge or problem in our lives it can seem obvious to focus on that problem in order to solve it. But what if finding the solutions to problems – like an overeating habit – didn’t involve this kind of approach at all? Ian Watson’s work as an educator is to provide…

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Today’s episode is an excerpt from my book, The Secret Language of Cravings. We suffer with an overeating habit when we misunderstand the message our cravings are trying to give us. In this book, author Alexandra Amor explores how to understand what cravings and the drive to overeat are telling us and therefore how to…

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The wisdom of the feelings in our bodies is so misunderstood. Today coach Sarie Taylor and I discuss how we can see the signals we feel for what they are and how they can help us navigate life. We don’t need to be afraid of being afraid. Many years ago Sarie Taylor found herself very…

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Universally, human beings are always searching for a better feeling. We are wired to connect with the peace and love that we are made of. And when we have feelings like victimhood, they are pointing toward exactly this innate drive within us. You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources…

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After riding a roller coaster of a profound spiritual experience followed by post-trauma flashbacks, Carol Boroughs had questions about the root cause of suffering. This practised healer began a search and stumbled across the work of Sydney Banks, which highlights Thought as a central, powerful force that affects our experience of life. Carol Boroughs brings…

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Cravings can be scary. And when they happen we can automatically brace ourselves against them. But what if there was another way to deal with cravings that encouraged them to dissolve on their own? You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below. Show Notes…

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In intimate partner relationships, we can often believe that change needs to happen in the other person in order for us to be happy. Rohini Ross, and her husband Angus, work with couples and individuals to help them see that our experience of everyone in our lives is coming not from them, but from within…

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When we explore the inside-out nature of life, especially as it relates to resolving an overeating habit, it can take some courage to be looking in this direction for answers. In this episode, we explore three instances where that courage may be required. You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links,…

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Sometimes the most powerful lessons we learn come from the darkest places. It was when Rachel Singleton’s physical health took a dark turn that she was able to see the love and kindness in her body’s design and how it had been trying to speak to her for years. For over 20 years, Rachel Singleton…

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Today’s episode is an excerpt from my book, The Secret Language of Cravings. We suffer with an overeating habit when we misunderstand the message our cravings are trying to give us. In this book, author Alexandra Amor explores how to understand what cravings and the drive to overeat are telling us and therefore how to…

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In 2015 Jacqueline Hollows founded Beyond Recovery which brings the understanding of innate health and well-being to incarcerated people. Now, she’s launching a book about her experiences, called Wing of an Angel, so that this understanding can be shared in prisons all over the UK. A social and digital entrepreneur, author, mentor and professional…

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Intrusive thoughts can seem like a problem. Just by their nature, they can seem scary and as though they are a sign of something that is wrong with us. But what if this isn’t true? And what if dealing with them is simply a matter of understanding their nature? You can listen above, on your favorite…

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Coach, speaker, and author Del Adey-Jones grew up in Wales in very difficult and unusual circumstances. We discuss how that upbringing affected her adult life, including the realization that she was married to a narcissist, and how she recovered from this. Del Adey-Jones is a coach, guide, instructor, and podcaster. She is dedicated to helping…

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An innocent trap we can fall into when we have a problem like an overeating habit or anxiety is layering lots of thinking onto that situation. Counterintuitively, the solution to problems like this is less thinking, not more. You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript…

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Mavis Karn is one of the OG Three Principles teachers. It was such a joy to talk to her about how she came across this understanding, how it resonated with her even though she couldn’t explain it at first, her work with incarcerated youth and their impact on her, and her latest venture – being…

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When it comes to weight loss we tend to think of it as a problem that needs to be solved, and one that is serious and potentially fraught. What if this was not the case? What if relaxing and relying on the innate wisdom that is within each of us was part of the solution?…

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One of Sharon Crabbe’s most profound insights was that we don’t ever need fixing because we can never be broken. She now applies this understanding in her work with children, adults, and horses and recognizes that our strength often lies in our willingness to be vulnerable. Sharon Crabbe is a coach, mentor and educator. She…

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Traditionally we look at food cravings and the drive to overeat as a problem, something to be fixed and overcome. What if we’ve misunderstood the message cravings are trying to send us? And what if they’re actually trying to help us? You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and…

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Our state of mind can affect those around us, including our pets. Julie Cluley teaches dog owners to listen to what their dogs are saying, and she also coaches those who are dealing with anxiety and its ripple affects. I was fascinated by the potential cross-over of these two subjects, and couldn’t wait to talk…

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When we start a new diet or eating plan we often have success for the first few days. Why is that? And why does that success quickly fade away? In this episode, we discuss how this is caused by a lack of understanding about how our thinking works and how a deeper understanding of Thought…

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Experiencing anxiety and panic attacks can often lead us to do more (and more) to try to manage and control them. Lily Sais found herself in exactly this situation – working with children as a school psychologist while suffering in silence about her own anxiety. When she found the Three Principles she was released from…

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When we don’t understand the nature of Thought, our thinking can (innocently) be fearful, to greater or lesser degrees. This, in turn, causes us to need to comfort and distract ourselves with unwarned habits like overeating. Alternatively, when we learn about the nature of Thought our unwanted habits become unnecessary and fall away.

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Show Notes

• How our thinking can be fearful, even when we don’t notice it
• Our problem-solving brain is always trying to keep us safe
• How our unwanted habits distract us (temporarily) from our thinking
• When we see the nature of though our unwanted habits dissolve

Transcript of episodeHello explorers, and welcome to Q&A episode 30 of Unbroken. My name is Alexandra Amor. I’m really happy to haveyou here with me today.

Today the question is: is fear making us fat?This was something that crossed my mind the other day that I really wanted to share with you as a way of looking toward the understanding that I share here on the podcast and toward this inside out understanding of the way that we work, and how everything that we’re experiencing is coming to us via thought. It occurred to me the other day, I was just thinking about my thinking. And I realized that so much of my thinking is insecure, or fearful.

We often talk about how our thinking is so often in the future or in the past. And it’s really clear to me that so often when we’re thinking about the future, when I’m planning things, or thinking about what might happen, or what could happen, or what should happen, or what I should be doing in any given situation, that thinking is quite fearful. We might not necessarily label it as such, unless we’re aware that we live in the world of our thinking, not in the world of our circumstances.

I started reflecting on the quality of my thoughts, or the nature of my thoughts even when I feel like things are relatively peaceful, inside my head, and calm and quiet, and things are fairly settled. And I realized that even then, my thinking can be quite fearful. This makes sense, because our brains ability to problem solve, I always call them big problem-solving machines. It’s their nature to want to look out into the world into what might be happening, and then solve that problem.

Where does that come from? That comes from a place of insecurity or fear. There might be a situation that I as a human might encounter in the next 10 minutes. And my brain, being a problem-solving machine, wants to get out ahead of that problem, and it wants to fix it before it can happen. It wants to anticipate what might occur in order to keep me safe. And this, of course, makes total sense. I’m not judging my brain, or my thinking at all. It’s doing its job, and it’s doing its very best to try to protect me and keep me safe. And you as well, of course, we’re all designed the same way.

So given that problem solving nature of our brains and our thinking, so much of our thinking can be like I said, insecure or fearful, even when we’re really calm and quiet. And then what can happen – and this is where I see anxiety start to occur in people – is that thinking kind of builds on itself. It gets even more sped up and more sped up and more sped up. And now we’re spending a lot more time in that worried or anxious state. It’s like a river running faster and being really turned up.

That can become an unwanted habit as well, I realize. We get into this unwanted habit of being anxious and having these layers and layers of insecure an anxious thinking.

What does that have to do with an overeating habit? Well, here’s what I saw about how fear is making us fat. When we have that kind of anxious, fearful thinking, and we’re not aware even a that it’s happening, that it’s something that’s occurring within us, rather than coming from our lived experience, and be that there’s such a simple way to deal with that thinking and that is simply to see it for what it is.

Once we we see the shadow puppet on the wall and recognize it as such, then we know that there isn’t a monster in our bedroom. That’s one of the analogies we use in this understanding. But when we don’t know these things, and we’ve got all this thinking that’s fearful and insecure, then what happens is, we need to comfort ourselves, that’s just perfectly natural, and normal. And of course, we want to feel safe and secure. And, in a way, create a buffer between ourselves and all of that insecure thinking.

So what do we do? We reach for substances to help us to do that. And that can be anything; it can be food, it can be alcohol, it can be sex, it can be shopping, whatever it is, we’re trying to create a buffer between ourselves and our thinking, or distract ourselves from ourselves and are thinking or soothe ourselves from the thinking that’s going on within us. I know I’ve talked on previous episodes about how the substances that we use to soothe ourselves like food, like overeating, they have a way of, at least initially, quieting down the thinking that’s going on in our brains. So that’s why they work. And that’s why we use them.

All that is to say that this is why, in this understanding, in my work, we’re always pointing toward, we’re always pointing upstream, as I’ve talked about, in a previous episode. We’re pointing toward the root cause of what’s creating an unwanted habit. So looking downstream, and looking at the specificity of “I only eat when I’m anxious about being in the car,” or “I only overeat during the in that circumstance”, or “I only indulge in my unwanted habit during this specific circumstance, like if my spouse is out of town, and I’m in the house by myself” or whatever it is, doesn’t matter what it is.

That kind of specificity is actually looking away from the root cause of the problem. So again, we look upstream. And the root cause is our thinking, the fact that we’re living in the world of our thinking, not in the world of our circumstances, and that the feeling that we have the drive to overeat, the cravings that we have, are always, always pointing us toward the quality of our thinking, and letting us know if it’s gone in the toilet. And that looking in that direction is what ends up resolving an unwanted habit, like overeating, rather than looking in the other direction and getting really granular about what’s going on.

When we see that it is our fearful thinking that’s making us fat, that can be really helpful in helping us let go of an unwanted overeating habit. I hope that that’s been helpful for you and that it opens a little window into helping you understand the nature of thought, the nature of where our unwanted habits come from, and how looking at how we all work as human beings is the thing that resolves these habits, and understanding the kindness and the perfection really, in our design, about how those feelings are letting us know that we’re caught up in this busy, fearful thinking.

It’s just the perfect design and it’s always there for us, always supporting us, always letting us know what’s going on. It’s our cravings are not a problem. They’re they don’t reflect that we’re broken, or flawed in some way or lacking. They’re always, always perfection, really and letting us know exactly what’s going on. I hope that’s been helpful for you and if you would like any clarification about that or have any follow up questions about that or about anything else, please let me know. You can go to alexandraamor.com/question, fill out the form and I’ll be happy to answer your question on a future episode.

Thank you so much for being here. And I will see you again next time. Bye.

Featured image photo by Juli Kosolapova on Unsplash

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Even when we’re experiencing stress and overwhelm there’s far less for us to do than we sometimes imagine. In this episode I talk to Vivienne Edgecombe about that, about her experience grappling with the idea that she might never have children, and about her work with businesses helping their staff uncover their innate resilience. Vivienne…

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This is part 2 of our conversation about whether or not relapse is a thing. In part 1 I left out an important part of the discussion, so this episode addresses the idea that when ‘relapses’ happen we can view the feelings we’re having to help us get back on course.

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Show Notes

• We are always feeling the quality of our thinking
• If we’re having cravings that’s not a problem, it’s a message
• Our human design is kind and is always trying to point us back to the peaceful state of being that is our default

Resources Mentioned in this Episode

• Part 1 on this subject can be found here

Transcript of this episodeHello explorers and welcome to Q&A Episode 29 of Unbroken. I’m Alexandra Amor.

This is going to actually be part two of the conversation that we had last week on Q&A Episode 28. I went away from that episode and I edited it and did all the stuff that I do to, to get it up on the podcast apps and all those things. And then I realized, Oh, I left out an important part of that conversation.

The subject was, Why is there no such thing as relapse when it comes to an unwanted habit like overeating? We talked about the elements of that and what I forgot to mention – and that’s what this episode is going to be about – is that when we’re having something that we would call a ‘relapse’ what’s actually happening is that our thinking has sped up.

It’s important to remember that the cravings and the the drive to overeat, that we feel in the moment are messages, they are feedback, they are a mindfulness bell, letting us know that we’re caught up in our thinking.

That’s a really important piece of this conversation about relapsing. So let’s dive in a little deeper to that. Last week, I gave the example of the trip that I was on and the birthday that I had, and the guests that I had, and those were the external events that I felt were interfering with my ability to eat the way that I wanted to.

But when we look a little bit deeper, and it’s so important to remember this, and this is something that traditional diet and healthy eating programs don’t address at all, is the intelligence of what’s going on within us when we experience those feelings, and those cravings. And this was such a pivotal part of this inside-out understanding for me, and it made such a huge difference to my ability to eat well, and to see my the drive to overeat that I experienced resolve itself. Because I didn’t do that.

My overeating resolved itself once I understood how I work and how all human beings work. Let’s look at the examples that I used of traveling and birthday and guests. When I experienced cravings, and the drive to overeat, during those times, what was really going on, was that those cravings, that feeling, were letting me know that my thinking was a little bit sped up. In the case of having guests, it might be sped up around are the guests having a good time? Do they have everything they need? Have I remembered to ask them were they warm enough the night before? Or did they need another blanket?

That kind of busy thinking that can go on when we’re in a situation maybe that’s unfamiliar, or a little bit charged, or whatever it is. And then the sequence becomes, I find myself feeling a little more permissive with myself about what it is I’m going to eat. I don’t mean that in a in a way that I’m really holding myself on a tight leash normally, but there is a way that I eat now that I really enjoy and appreciate that feels good for me.

What I noticed was thinking that was more along the lines of and I mentioned this last week, treating myself or rewarding myself, and that’s fine. I mean, of course we’re going to treat ourselves and reward ourselves sometimes. But I did notice some discomfort with that feeling as well with those kinds of thoughts. I didn’t really want to be eating in a way that was outside the way that I normally like to eat. And yet I was doing it anyway. I was following the lead of those thoughts about treats and that kind of thing.

That should have twigged me, honestly. I didn’t think of those thoughts and feelings like feedback, even though I teach this stuff until after it had happened. At the time, I just got swept up in what was happening, the busyness here in my home with my guests, and the permissive thought would come in about having a treat or doing whatever. It was like being on a rushing river, I just got swept along with it, oh, that’s a good idea. My friends are on holiday, I’m just going to celebrate with them or whatever it was.

The more we look in this direction, the more we’re able to take a moment and see what’s really going on. Now, I didn’t in that case, and maybe next time, I will, though. One of the really amazing benefits of sharing here on the podcast is that I get to learn as well, I get to be mindful of what’s going on with me by explaining it to you. And that helps me as well. So just as a little aside, this is it’s great for me to be here as well sharing this.

The bottom line is then that when we experience what we might call a relapse it’s really good to remember that we are so divinely designed, that our design is kind. And it’s not working ever against us. It’s always, always trying to help us and guide us and let us know what’s happening with our thinking.

If I had taken a moment, during those examples that I’ve given you, and stepped back a little bit and realized what was going on, that might have been really helpful to me to see at the time. Now it wasn’t the end of the world. And nobody’s had exploded. It was a moment in time. And now it’s over, and I’m back to eating the way I enjoy eating. And in a way that’s healthy for me.

I think I’ve mentioned I’ve got some arthritis in my knees so there are certain foods that I stay away from. And that’s really helping my knees. And so that’s the way I like to eat. I do love a potato, but I can’t I don’t eat them anymore, because they really bother my arthritis.

So all this is to say that I think it’s just really important to remember and to keep looking back toward how kind our design is.

Our cravings are simply letting us know that we are caught up in our thinking, either in general, or in a specific moment, as I’ve talked about before. That was the really important piece that I left out last week. And I just wanted to make sure that I mentioned it because it is really important.

I think it’s so important for me to just keep banging this drum because it’s the opposite of the way that we culturally tend to look at these situations. We think of going off the wagon and relapsing as failures as flaws as things that we’ve done wrong. And then we have to get right again, with ourselves and with whatever is going on with our unwanted habit. And the truth is, none of that is true.

We haven’t failed. I didn’t fail when that situation, those three situations that were going on that I told you about. I’m not a failure. I was a good learning opportunity for me to remember that. My feelings are always, always telling me about the quality of my thinking.

I’m thrilled that I’m able to share that here with you today. And I hope that’s been helpful for you.

If you have a question about this or about any aspect of an unwanted over eating habit that you’ve got, please do let me know. You can go to alexandraamor.com/question and fill in the form there and I will answer your question on a future episode.

Thank you again for being with me here and I will see you next time. Bye.

Featured image photo by Anton Sharov on Unsplash

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What if we humans are designed so perfectly that every feeling we have comes from a place of love? This is the question that Juliet Fay and I explore during our conversation, as well as looking at control and what it may have to tell us, and much more.

Juliet Fay divides her time between West Wales, UK and West Coast, US, sharing and teaching in a variety of ways: group programmes, online gatherings and 1:2:1 consultations.

She trained as a Three Principles Facilitator with The Insight Space, London in 2016-17 under the direction of Ian Watson and Carol Boroughs and returned as a peer mentor for their programme in 2018-19. She also attended The Three Principles School on Salt Spring Island in British Columbia, Canada in 2017 and periodically attends Three Principles Conferences (UK and 3PGC) and programmes virtually or in person.

You can find Juliet Fay at SolCare.org.

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Show Notes

• Learning the root cause (and cure for) unstable moods
• How what’s happening for us in a given moment looks true
• How our thinking settles down temporarily when we think we’ve found a solution to a ‘problem’
• How insight is tailored to each of us
• Is life asking us to go deeper into not knowing?
• How can we learn to simply be present with what’s happening, including our feelings?

Resources Mentioned in this Episode

• Unbroken episode with Maryse Godet Copans
• Ian Watson
• Carol Boroughs
• Juliet’s episode on The Beautiful Feeling podcast
• Juliet’s podcast with Carla Royal

Transcript of Interview with Juliet FayAlexandra: Juliet Fay, welcome to Unbroken.

Juliet: Thank you. It’s a pleasure to be here.

Alexandra: Why don’t you tell us a bit about your background and how you found the principles?Juliet: Okay, so I was a searcher. I’m a seeker, and had been, I think, from a young age. And so the principles came across my path at a time in my life, I guess, when I was in a period of struggling more intensely than I had been.

I love the stories of how people find the principles or how the principles find them, whichever way you want to say. And I came across it randomly a video on YouTube, actually, through an email that I’d signed up to, but didn’t usually read. And it’s funny, isn’t it, because I’m actually quite good at keeping my inbox clean of when I’m no longer interested in something, I tend to unsubscribe and this one had had stayed there, all these months and months and months. And I never opened them. And then one day, the subject line just jumped out at me.

The webinar was called ‘Can an insight cure PTSD?’ It was Mary Schiller being interviewed by Molly Gordon, who’s a dear friend. So I’m sorry, Molly, that I didn’t open all those emails before. And I didn’t know much about PTSD. I didn’t. But I was aware it was considered a mental illness. And who knows why, but something really piqued my curiosity. To the extent that it was a live hangout, you could join, and I missed it, and then went back searching through my emails to find it again, because it pinged again in my head.

I’ve really learned to trust this. Now when something pings, and you don’t ignore it, it’ll come back. And then if you still ignore it, it’ll be back my way. So it goes. So I went and I found the recording, I watched it was an hour and Mary Schiller talking about her experience of PTSD and how this thing called the principles and she’d read Michael Neill’s book, I think, his first book, perhaps, and had had a life altering insight. And it really piqued my curiosity. I think that’s all I can say at that point, there was like, there’s something here.

I think it’s a very common story, I went off and just gorged on the Principles materials, webinars, books, anything I could get my hands on, for quite a while I went really deep into it.

I think the first thing that I saw that was so helpful to me at the time, which is maybe very obvious to, maybe if some people learn this already on the way, but somehow I had missed this one, which was that I am always at the effect of what looks true in my head at any given moment. If I believe what’s going on in my head, then what I say and do will follow from that. And that’s true for everyone else to.

Now, that was so helpful, because I’d spent decades trying to figure out and analyze why I was the way I was, and the way I was was I had really unstable moods. To an extraordinary degree. I looked at everything that came from diet to genetics to therapy and medication. I mean, like the loads of people, I tried everything, yoga affirmations, eating kale running. It was, and some things were helpful for a while, and I’m sure right now, from this distance, I guess I can see that we’re always having insights. So I was having insights, but things didn’t, I guess, give me lasting change.

And so this little really quite simple idea that we’re just at the effect of what looks to in any given moment, even if two minutes later, that changes and what you felt and thought five minutes ago looks ridiculous to you. In the moment, that’s all that’s going on. I do remember that, when I saw that there was this huge relief that all this analyzing and trying to sort of get all my ducks in a row to get this perfect, perfect outcome because perfect outcome was part of the problem. If I was a same sweet woman, that’s what I wanted, which is flawed, let’s face it as an objective. But it just took away such sort of layers and layers of complexity.

For me, that’s all that’s going on. I’d love to say that then everything dissolved, and I was fine. But that’s not what happened. For me, that was the starting point. So it certainly didn’t mean I wasn’t at the effect of upsetting distressing very insecure thinking I still was and still am. But it took away the need to go down all this these rabbit holes of is it diet? Is it genetics? Is it nurture nature? Is it my, my work? Is it my relationships? Is it where I live? Is it my bank balance?

Because you can see, I’m sure I wasn’t alone in that many of us spend a huge amount of mental energy trying to figure out what the problem is, and then trying to fix the problem. And sometimes we might, sometimes we don’t. But I think for some of us, there’s a pattern there that the seeking and working it out, becomes an end in itself. Because part of us feels like we’re doing something we’re trying to address it. And we actually just get very, very busy in our head. And out in the world. In my case projects were one of my coping mechanisms.

Alexandra: You said so many interesting things there. And I had a huge insight while you were speaking. Many people who are on this show, talk about all the things they’ve tried, myself included to “fix themselves”. And almost everyone to a person, including myself, says the things were helpful for a while.

My insight just then was that that’s because our thinking shifts momentarily. We think, Oh, this is the thing that’s going to fix me, this is the thing that’s going to work. There’s this honeymoon period, because our thinking has changed. And then that fades, of course, our thinking changes as it always does. And that fades away. And then we’re on to the search for the next thing. So thank you for sharing that. I really appreciate it.

Juliet: You’re welcome. That’s really interesting what you said, because not only does your thinking change, but your thinking settles down, because it looks like the solution is here. And so all that stuff we have running about I’m wrong, it’s wrong, that’s wrong, everyone’s wrong, whatever it is, quiets down. And in that more settled mind it looks very true to me that as the mind settles down, the body settles down.

A lot of the fixes we look at are trying to do that the other way around, trying to settle the mind to settle the body. And it’s not to say some deep breathing doesn’t calm the nervous system a bit. But I think the power of insight is something I know you’re interested in. And before I call I was sort of reflecting a little bit so yeah, insight what, what was kind of what is that? And why is it such a common term in this conversations around the principles and what’s different about that from a good idea? Or a great strategy or and I think, for me, it’s a good idea or a great strategy. It’s something that I might try and put into place in my life.

I’ll probably need prompts and reminders and I might have to check in with why I thought it was such and my experiences that kind of relies on willpower to keep moving it forward, and sometimes they do and sometimes they don’t. Whereas insight feels that it’s raw is what I would call it. Where is a concept and an idea and a strategy is a bit abstract. It’s like, oh, that’s up there looks really great on this web page. And now I’ve got to like, pull it down, and I got to apply it. And you can feel it. It’s kind of work.

An insight is feels more like something arises in your bones. And because you know it in your bones don’t have to think about it. You don’t have to apply it. And so behavior shifting, or behaviors dropping away whatever it is, happens with apparently without effort. But maybe I should pause that, because I’ve got another piece that I’d like to say about insights.

Alexandra: I love what you’re saying.

For me, it’s pointing to that idea of freshness. But you’re also pointing to, for me, it often can feel like the thing was already there and I’m just awakening to it. So that’s what I see in what you’re saying. Please, continue.

Juliet: Oh, that’s really nice. I really like that. Because it can have that quality of like, of course. Almost like I’ve always known this. I just didn’t know that I did. That almost. Is that what I’m hearing that that? Yeah, that’s, that’s beautiful. Because it is isn’t it once. It’s like, before we’ve seen it, we can’t see it. It’s invisible. And in the moment of seeing it has a rightness for us. It’s very tailored, I think, to each individual.

I think the other thing that is fascinates me about insight is …I can share an experience I had on Saltspring Island, it’s not far from you. It’s just where insight comes without any meaning or words or anything. In fact, I wouldn’t have even called it an insight. I was really, really lucky to get to go to the Salt Spring school, the Three Principles school on Salt Spring Island with Elsie Spittle in 2017. It was early in my Principles journey. And I’d been around it for a couple of years.

I was having an incredible few months just prior to going out there. A very kind of expanded feeling state. I can remember driving back from London to West Wales where I live, which is about five hour drive down the motorway. And after Three Principles training weekend, and the beauty of the autumn leaves on the embankment on the side of this freeway I just was welling up welling up and welling up. And again, no words, just this beauty filling me up in a way that I almost felt like I can’t contain it. It’s too beautiful.

And this was happening a lot. I often just had water falling out my eyes. I went to Salt Spring Island and I had just met the man who’s now my husband. And we were there together so that there is I should mention that because that was we were on a trip together there. But I sat in the three days school. And I just literally had water falling out of my eyes. I wasn’t crying in the kind of sense of being upset. And I was also moving around going to lunch in the evening, get together with people. I sat through the whole school and I can’t tell you anything that anybody said. I even watched some of the recordings they put out after the school. And I was like was I there? Because I don’t remember anything that they said.

But there was this what looking back it’s really interesting actually telling you about it now. I suppose I would say now that something was touched inside of me and all this was like a clearing or a cleansing and I had had no words for it then and I still have no words for what really was happening. But it was so outside anything I’ve ever experienced that I also didn’t have any questions you know, I didn’t I wasn’t disturbed or even confused and I just remember that everything else I was bringing looks so beautiful. I suppose what’s coming to me right now is I think I was surrendered. In that time and what a beautiful, beautiful feeling that is when we give up the fight.

Alexandra: What an experience! When the school was over, what was that like for you?Juliet: Well, this very expanded state continued to some extent. I had a few days in Vancouver afterwards for flew back and again, I remember wandering around the city just being delighted by there’s some concrete works, you might know it on is it I can’t remember the exactly the name of the place. And they’ve painted them their huge structures with these gorgeous multicolored paintings. And that was one of many things I just found. Absolutely.

I had never been to North America, although I’ve traveled a lot elsewhere. And it was a dream, like getting the plane back getting back from London back here. And I think it’s quite a common story, as people who’ve been around this, I think I would say I had a sort of year, maybe more, maybe 18 months, maybe two years of just, oh, my problems have gone away.

I think that it’s very interesting, because what you’ve just seen earlier in the call about when we try different things and our thinking shifts, or settles or whichever it is, which allows wisdom to come in and then we might think that things on the outside are working in a funny sort of way. I think I’ve seen this really powerfully.

I obviously need to keep seeing this is that I somehow took the credit for what had happened. It’s a bit like, oh, go me! I’m really calm. I’m not calm. I’m the person I always wanted to be. And it’s really subtle. I think that you don’t realize you’re doing that. I was just very relieved. I just really enjoyed that.

I met some wonderful people and wonderful teachers through that time. And I was working as a facilitator myself and then it’s really interesting that in the last I’d say year, 18 months, the mood swings and things for me came back. And it’s very humbling. Because you kind of think, ah I’ve graduated. And so yeah, I mean, this is ongoing, and it is very humbling.

Alexandra: I was speaking to Maryse Godet Copans on a previous episode, and she had a similar experience. For her was panic attacks and physical symptoms that she has: headaches, that kind of thing. So that’s really interesting.

What did you see when your mood swings returned? Anything you could share?Juliet: I think my first reaction was disappointment. Like, oh, these again.

I’m really glad you’ve asked the question, because just now as you were asking me, I immediately went into a lot of thinking about mood swings, which is a very old track for me, because I spent decades thinking about them. I’ve just seen that wants to kind of get going again. I sort of have an idea. And it was one shared with me by some wonderful teachers Ian Watson and Carol Boroughs, that things come back around. Because there’s something to see something further, something deeper to see.

And perhaps they would phrase it in terms of to see, either again, or more deeply the nature of the illusion. When we’re saying things come back around again, I can really see that where that’s gone on in my life, it might be a similar circumstance, it might be a thought pattern, habit. It might be a behavior. And sometimes you can be in a completely different situation, but it’s got a very old, familiar feel.

It’s really funny, I wrote a couple of poems called Old Tracks, one and two is very much about falling into the that habitual old thought patterns. And they’re kind of curious, because at one level, they’re familiar, and they’re comfortable. But then I think as our understanding deepens, they become uncomfortable.

I often feel like I should be in kindergarten with the principles. I’m a very slow and slightly stubborn learner. Because often, I see something, but I see it, and it’s helpful to see, but it doesn’t necessarily immediately change what’s going on for me. I think one of the deeper lessons for me, is that I’ve seen and felt what it is to be in a beautiful feeling to be in the flow of life. And it’s gorgeous.

Who wouldn’t want to be in that. But there’s a busy mind part of me that when things aren’t like that, which is often you know, often my head wants to get busy. That old impulse to try and figure it out, fix it, which went quite quiet for quite some time, kind of wants to come up again. So this time around, what it feels like is for me, I was on an episode of another podcast, which was called The Beautiful Feeling and we talked a little bit about it. I’m always curious about how deeply can I listen?

Where I’m at, I guess with it right now is that I have a sense that this is asking me to get quiet to listen more deeply, anything else that I might want to tweak and adjust. I am messing around with diet things, which is very familiar. Going back through those things, not to say that some of that might be helpful and menopausal. So there’s always things we can do.

I can feel the difference. My busy mind really likes the idea of eating more broccoli, or whatever it is. Because it’s got a sort of seek and destroy hunting and finding a solution. And it’s got that feel to it, which is very familiar, and used to bring an unlimited amount of satisfaction, let’s face it. Whereas getting really, really quiet doesn’t have that little pull, push pull.

It’s funny that I said about surrendered because I think that’s really what life is asking of me: to go deeper into not knowing. One of the things that I noticed in the disappointment is as soon as we make our experience wrong – it shouldn’t be happening, I should know better – it’s just more busy thinking. And then we’re listening to that. We’re just listening to that noise again. Which prevents us from falling into a quieter space.

Well, I don’t want to say prevents this because I do think it’s all, if I’m in a beautiful feeling, I feel gratitude. I don’t really think that I engineer that beautiful feeling. Maybe I can get in the way of it. But I’m not sure that I can click my fingers and go bright be here now.

Being still is like an act of faith that in looking towards the stillness, I’m inviting a felt sense of presence in and in that I do know that’s where the answers are. But it feels often that my busy mind wants to go off and be clever and, and go yeah, here. No, but what about this?

Alexandra: That’s amazing. Thank you for sharing that.

I was listening to a conversation with Dr. Bill Pettit the other day, and he was talking about presence. And it struck me, I was going through a period of pretty low moods, like depression, at the time. It’s extraordinary to wonder what it would be like to just be present with that feeling. So I’ve been exploring that lately. Not trying to change it, not trying to make it better, make it go away any of those things.

I think that’s what you’re pointing to. I’m just saying it in slightly different words, would you agree?Juliet: Yeah, I think it is. Because I think when we feel bad, it can be Pavlovian to just want to push that feeling away. I haven’t got time for this or I’m too busy, or there’s important things to do, or it just feels lousy. Just get away from me be happy. I think there’s something really beautiful in that.

I love this expression, there are no mistakes in relation to our experience.

And really, by the time you have an opinion about how you feel, it’s already happened. It’s like, you have it, you have some feeling, it might be a sensation, it might be an emotional feeling. And then your mind gets busy making whatever it makes of that. But really, it’s all after the effect. I love the way that the principles teachings and Syd Banks very famous quotes, I’ll paraphrase, happiness one thought away. Sadness is one thought away.

If you’re feeling low, you can take that and beat yourself up with it and cry should find the happy thought I find that which we know, it just makes you feel worse. Because fundamentally, you’re saying that how I feel is wrong. And what you’re pointing to is, well, what happens if I just come into acceptance? I guess that right now, this is what’s here, in my experience. And I think that in itself just opens a little bit of space. I don’t know.

Have you found that? What did you find when you were led into that?Alexandra: I found peace for one thing, because I wasn’t pushing against it and doing all the things you’ve just mentioned, saying to myself, this shouldn’t be happening. Why is this happening? What have I done wrong? How can I fix it? All that stopped and went away.

The feeling I really get that I love when I do that is it’s like I’m sitting with the feeling as a really good friend. I feel this lovely feeling of just complete acceptance and presence. It feels like the depression appreciates that from me just like a good friend does when we sit with them without trying to change them or fix them or anything like that. That’s been my experience.

Juliet: That’s just so beautiful, isn’t it?

Alexandra: Yeah, it was lovely.

Juliet: And it’s such a lovely direction to look in because since the love part of love and understanding, when we’re down there battling with our own mind trying to see more or get insights the feeling, isn’t there. And we can do that, like, I’ve seen this, but the principles, so I should, I should be able to get myself out of this. But what you did there, it’s just so beautiful.

I just had an image as well as that kind of catching and holding the lovely warm blanket or whatever it might be. And it’s so funny, because it’s really the most natural thing in the world to do. You alluded to that if you were with a friend, generally speaking, if we’re settled, that would be instinctive.

And yet, it’s very common that people in their own distress can go any other direction. And really we might call it self-criticism or self-judgment, but it’s just thought. It’s just more sensation moving through the way we don’t always think of thought as sense sensory based.

I’m beginning to wonder these days, if it isn’t actually slightly sensory based, we certainly react to thought in our body. But actually, at the level of the mental level. I’m just very curious about that. Is it a sensory experience?

Alexandra: And this brings me to a question that I sent you in advance about control. You have a podcast episode with Carla Royal on your website about control. And it struck me, well, a couple things, I guess.

When you talked about the experience of driving on the motorway, away from the retreat in London, and being on Saltspring, and having that beautiful, expanded experience. You, Juliet, didn’t create that, it just came. And then when it leaves, you don’t control that, either.

I’d love for you to talk about the illusion of control. And how it holds us prisoner, which is something that you said in the in the podcast.Juliet: Carla, Royal, my co-host when we did those is a wonderful, warm woman, and we had some amazing conversations there. Yeah, control. I think it’s, like so many of our kind of negative thoughts, it’s a very compelling feeling. And it has this urgency in it.

One of the other things we related to this, and we might talk about is, I think I also said something to the effect that love is behind every feeling. I was pondering again on this, as I said it a little while ago, and it really looks to me that even when you look at all the behaviors that come out of fear and control is one of the number one behaviors to come out of fear.

Why do we try and control things? We control things because we think we’re not safe. That might be physically not safe, emotionally not safe, not safe from existential threats. And it goes without saying that if you’re bad fall into a sinkhole, or there’s bombs that are going to drop on you, you don’t need me or Alexandra to tell you how to deal with that your instincts will kick in and you’ll be hopefully off or hide or whatever it is.

But we’re talking about control in which is often an overreaction to an imaginary threat. And I’m not a psychologist, but I think psychologists will see patterns of where you might be responding to something because of something that’s happened in the past and talk about triggers and all this kind of thing. But what’s so lovely about the principles is that they’ll point to the fact that it’s back to my first insight really, you have a thought in your mind that looks true, it doesn’t really matter if it is true to anybody else. If it looks true to you, then this amazing body-mind system will kick in and do what it thinks it needs to do to protect you.

That can be fight or flight, one’s probably freeze. I think there’s more, but control looks in that moment, like if you literally were faced with a beast attacking you, then all those responses would be appropriate, and wise. But the reason I said that control creates a prison is that in daily life, if our system is responding, as if we were living with a beast, then your life becomes about survival.

It’s a very interesting thing when the body or mind is severely threatened. I’ve always been fascinated with the idea that it shuts off various functions that are not critical to life, like digestion would be one. And so when you think about it, this is where the love piece comes in. Your whole body-mind system, because I think at the core of us is a love of life. And by life, I mean, this spirit energy, this intelligent energy, that that leaves us to you. So touching on that. And control. Weirdly, I mean, I’m just saying this, the talk to you know, is about, given what looks true up here, the body mind doing its utmost to keep you alive and safe.

When you see it through that perspective, it is actually a very beautiful thing. I’m on my journey, I’ve come to be grateful for my many and varied coping mechanisms that I deployed, where I judge them harshly and resented them and worried about them. I’ve come to see a certain beauty in the ways that I kept going. Doing what looks like the best I’ve had with what I understood.

The prison is a paradox in the personal thought system you’re living in, it is keeping you safe. And that’s the principles in action working perfectly. And as the illusory nature of those fears falls away – for some, it falls away incrementally, very much in my case, and they haven’t been gone. But at the core of it I think when you hear stories of people’s sudden collapsing of a lot of insecurity, it looks to me that what is being felt, and really discovered or revealed back to your point in the beginning, what’s uncovered? Is that safety is both an illusion, but it’s what’s really, inside us is perfect health. At that more essential level.

Every time I see a little bit more of that I feel really grateful. And then I bump into things in my life that show me that there’s still more layers there for me. There’s still more to see. And this conversation is really touching me because I think at the core of it we are safe. How could we not be?

Life, as you said, is living us. It knows how to do that far better than we do. So thank you because there’s this invitation to surrender, which I think life gives you meet all of us at every turn is it might come off in little bits. But it’s always pointing you towards you have everything you need, and you can let go. But you’ll only let go when you’re ready.

Alexandra: So beautifully said. Thank you. I’m going to have to go back and re listen to that because it was it was so deep. I think I missed some of it. So yeah, really thank you for that. That was beautiful.

Is there anything we haven’t touched on today that you’d like to share with our listeners?Juliet: I think something that is really helpful to me as I go through and deepen the two things really is.

One is don’t be afraid to own your interest and your exploration as a valuable thing in your life. Stand tall with that, because you’re being called. Make no mistake back to your point, it’s not us thinking, oh, one day perhaps I’ll look at spiritual matters. I do believe we’re part of something wider and bigger.

There are many, many people all across the planet who are drawn to what I call home. Now, that’s not a coincidence. So be proud and be stand tall in their exploration. Because you’re not just doing it for yourself, it ripples out to everyone you come into contact with and beyond in ways you can never see.

And then just in case, we start taking it too seriously, my second side of it is, lighten up, enjoy what there is to enjoy. Give yourself a break, you can’t force any of this. And you can’t be asleep on the watch. Because so much is percolating under the surface like that insight on Saltspring like you said, there’s no way I could have engineered that. I love the sort of Buddhist idea of relaxed and alert is or is there’s just less to do than we think.

Alexandra: So true. Yes, absolutely. Well, Juliet, this has been amazing.

Where can we find out more about you and your work? Juliet: I have a website, which I’m sure you’ll probably point people to, but it’s solcare.org. And there’s a blog on there. And as the podcast episodes, you can people can contact me through there. I’m not super active on social media. I post mainly pictures of landscapes. That’s my one of the things I love to do. So if people want to find me on there, you can look up my name on Instagram or Facebook, per se. I’m not very interactive or active.

Alexandra: Okay, great. I’ll put a link to your website in the show notes at unbrokenpodcast.com. Thank you so much for being with me here today. It’s been a real pleasure talking to you.

Juliet: Oh, it’s been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for asking me.

Alexandra: All right. Take care.

Featured image photo by Johannes Plenio on Unsplash

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What happens when we try to be present with ourselves, including uncomfortable feelings or experiences we have? Is there a way to be with ourselves the same way a good listener is: without judging the experience or tying to change it? You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and…

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On this episode of Unbroken, Fiona Jacob and I talk about my favorite subject: the field of possibility that is within all of us. That connection we all have to infinite universal intelligence, peace and well-being. Fiona shares about her journey to coming to understand and trust this intelligence, and also what she does when…

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We tend to think of our uncomfortable experiences in life – unwanted cravings, depression, anxiety, etc. – as problems. What if instead they are love letters from the innate wisdom and well-being that is within all of us? What if they are trying to get out attention and point us back toward that innate wholeness?…

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Charli Wall has experienced so much of what life has to offer and much of it hasn’t been easy. She’s dealt with chronic anxiety, stress, C-PTSD, dysfunctional eating, devastating, debilitating loss, and much more. Her experiences also included tremendous success with a health and fitness business. Then in 2017 she discovered the Three Principles and…

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Maryse Godet Copans suffered with anxiety and other physical symptoms for years and sought out answers for this suffering. Then she found the Three Principles and her symptoms fell away. She received coach training and began to share what she’d seen with others. Then her symptoms returned, which was frustrating and confusing. Maryse used this…

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Like so many of us, Change coach Gabby Pritts lived for a long time with a misunderstanding about where her experience came from. This led to her developing the unwanted habit of needing to be perfect so that she could be safe. And this focus on perfection led to some disordered eating. Thankfully she came…

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We innocently tend to think of discomfort and unwanted feelings (like food cravings) as problems that need to be solved. What if they are actually something else? What if they are reminders, pointing us toward our true nature of peace, calm and joy? You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links,…

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Psychotherapist Jeri Kramer was experiencing burnout (and grief) when she discovered the Three Principles. Exploring the understanding that we are all well and whole has revitalized her enthusiasm for her work and brought lightness and laughter into her time with her clients. In this episode, we talk about how understanding that humans are designed to…

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When we feel the drive to participate in an unwanted habit what’s really going on? This three-part answer is based on my experience over 30 years of dealing with an unwanted overeating habit, and on my exploration of the field of spiritual-psychology called the Three Principles. You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch…

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Azul Leguizamon experienced trauma and disfunction in her childhood, which led her on a path of healing as an adult. She trained in several fields, but still believed she was irreparably broken and damaged by her past experiences. However, when she came across the Three Principles and began to explore them she discovered that her…

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How do you solve problems? I used to get caught in what I now call a ‘knowledge loop’, which very often wasn’t particularly helpful. In this episode I talk about where we can go for answers to life’s challenges and how to create our own magic portals to the insights that offer those answers. You…

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Beyond the immediate effects the recent global pandemic had on us (isolation, grief, loss, and illness, to name but a few) what have the long term effects been? Coach Stephanie Wood began asking herself this question when she noticed that some of the unwanted habits she’d picked up during the pandemic had stuck around.

Knowing that she couldn’t be alone in this, Stephanie has created a program to help us settle our nervous systems and aid our recovery from the prolonged trauma that the pandemic caused.

Stephanie Wood’s passion is helping people get unstuck. She is a holistic health practitioner and for more than two decades she’s been helping people reclaim their lives on their journey back to health and wholeness.

She’s helped support hundreds of people in their recovery from depressive and anxious thinking and from the residual effects of having had a traumatic or challenging childhood using modalities like EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique), Shiatsu, Human Design and others.

You can find Stephanie Wood at InnerPeaceAndFlow.com and on Instagram @stephaniewood.eft

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Show Notes

• On learning about the 3 Principles via EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique)
• Searching far and wide for a resolution to chronic depression
• On the power of insight and its ability to create positive change
• Calming the nervous system after a prologued traumatic event like a global pandemic
• The connection between a stressed nervous system and a busy, insecure mind

Resources Mentioned in this Episode

• Stephanie’s free Reset Your Nervous System program
• Donna Eden and the Eden Method
• Prine Harris
• Human Design
• The Q&A episode of Unbroken about where to look for wisdom and guidance

Transcript of Interview with Stephanie WoodAlexandra: Stephanie Wood, welcome to Unbroken.

Stephanie: Hi. Glad to be here.

Alexandra: I’m thrilled to have you with me here today.

Tell us a little bit about your background, how you got interested in the three principles, and that stuff.Stephanie: I’ve been an EFT tapping trainer and practitioner for over 20 years. EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique) is a mind-body technique that uses tapping on meridian points. I got into that because I suffered from depression for my whole life until I was 35. And now I’ve been 21 years’ depression free. I know these kinds of types of techniques can work.

So where I encountered the three principles, it was through somebody with the tapping. It was another tapping practitioner. And she was telling me about Ann Ross, who was one of the EFT founding masters. And she said she had trained with her. She’s moved on to this thing called the three principles.

And so of course, I love learning about all this stuff. And I just wanted to know more. So of course, I went down the rabbit hole and really ended up training with Annika Hurwitz, Keith Blevins and Velda, and Amanda Jones. And so I just really went down the rabbit hole, and it completely jived with everything I ever saw about life.

And I’m like, this is for me. So now I share it. I incorporated it with the tapping. I had a lot of thinking about how wrong it was to bring in a technique. But over the years, I just realized I love the tapping. It’s fun for me. It feels nice to me. And it was a nice way to gently bring it to a broader audience, though.

Alexandra: Would you be willing to share a little bit more about your depression and how you came to clear that up? What you saw about it?Stephanie: Yes. So, it was lifelong. I was hospitalized twice, I was a cutter, I tried to commit suicide, and I was a very unhappy camper from childhood on. I was relentlessly seeking help. So from my 20s on every modality you could think of. I had regular Western therapy, Eastern therapy, acupuncture, and I became a shiatsu practitioner. I just tried everything I could.

I knew in my bones that something was going to shift. That’s where I think I just couldn’t stop. I was like, this isn’t right, this isn’t who I am. And so really, it was in my mid-30s. I was 34. I kept pursuing different, practitioners, and it was a combination of two different types of energy medicine type techniques.

I wasn’t EFT. This was before I had even heard about EFT. And I happen to be doing them at the same time. And I was doing them, nothing was happening. And then I stopped, and it just didn’t get better. And six months later, I think it took time for all of the processing to happen.

I woke up in July of that year and I realized it had been a couple of weeks since I had had hateful, self-hatred, thoughts. I could feel that something shifted. And I was like, I don’t hate myself anymore. And when I thought about it, the thought sounded ridiculous. I was like, why would I hate myself? I could see all of my dark and all of my light.

And I was less judgy about it. I just knew it was gone. Because I started looking for it because I’m waiting for all of the thoughts and their circle of friends. The whole city of depression thoughts that would come along with the I hate myself? And they were the train of thoughts were not there.

Now, when I encountered the three principles. I went through that lens, I looked back at everything because I was like, was it a technique that fixed me? What I’ve come to see about my understanding of the three principles is everything is insight. When it appears to be related to a technique, I don’t know if I care anymore.

Insight, like period, it could correspond with climbing Mount Everest, it could correspond with, you’re in the tub, slitting your wrists, and you have an insight. I don’t know when it’s going to happen. So it’s like trusting where I’m being led, and then insights, calm, and that insight was so profound, that it ripped apart the belief that I had that I hated myself.

I don’t know if that makes sense. But it was from now and then it was like I started my life at 35. I’m 56 now so I just haven’t ever been depressed. It doesn’t mean I’m happy all the time. But I’m not in that. I used to fall in the hole like it was the hole of depression. I know depression was ugly.

Alexandra: Wow, that’s fascinating. Thank you for sharing that. I really appreciate it. And as you were speaking at that’s was the conclusion that I was coming to as well that everything is insight. And we don’t have control over it.

Insight can be so life-changing. That’s amazing. I love it.Stephanie: And that’s why I do what I do now. Because when I see people with depression or anxiety, I know it’s possible. I’m not saying that this X, Y, Z will fix that, or X, Y, Z will remove the belief, but I just know that it’s possible.

And that hope of and knowing that it’s all thought, and behind all of that, that we’re deeply okay. We’re whole and complete behind everything. I can’t not see that when I work with people or when I see anybody.

Alexandra: I love that. And it’s such a common story of, I think three principles, practitioners, even just people who are interested in the understanding that we’ve been everywhere, tried everything. And I loved what you said about, you just knew in your bones that depressed person was not who you were.

I had the same experience with overeating. I just knew that there was an answer somewhere. And that I guess, in a way that I wasn’t broken, that that there was a way to be healthy around food and that thing. So, very similar experience, just in a different arena, for sure.

The reason I wanted to speak to you today was that you recently started a Reset Your Nervous System series of videos, which I signed up for.

Tell us first about what motivated that.Stephanie: I was starting to notice that so much happened in the during the pandemic, and so much thinking developed, and so many unwanted habits. I knew that I wasn’t alone when I went out and noticed everyone had gained a little weight.

Everyone was complaining about drinking too much. People knew things were happening, they were overspending, all the things were happening. And then as we started to come back to life, to normal life, I was hearing from so many friends and online, that people weren’t able to shake it, and it’s been a while now.

I realized, for me, I also wasn’t able to shake it. I’m still overeating, I’m still over drinking. I’m not liking this behavior. And normally, in the past, it just never was an issue that some of those things weren’t issues. I didn’t have a lot of thinking about it, it didn’t feel compulsive, it didn’t feel like a compulsion to do those things.

And so I started by talking about with my partner, just, I mean, this literally was just a few weeks ago, and we both realized, wow, like, if the science is correct about trauma, and that our if our amygdala gets into these patterns of fight or flight and gets in lockdown, which, quite frankly, when I when we talked about it, I looked back at the beginning of the pandemic, it was scary.

Even though I got a lot of benefits from it. I’m an introvert. I love being at home, and working from home and everything, but nobody knew what was going to happen. And that was for a prolonged period of time. And then the vaccine came and then it was like, is this going to work and I couldn’t see my family for because they live across an international border.

I think I had so much emotion that I noticed I started to have those coping behaviors, while the days were all the same. So five o’clock, I think I want a cocktail, it was just this pattern started to happen. So fast forward to now and I’m trying to shift those patterns and shifting that conversation with my partner.

I’m like, I have mad techniques to get to work with this. Why am I not using them? I know it’s thinking I understand that. And we have a body and I’m also have grappled with the three principles and body how that interacts. That’s been a deep thought deep exploration that I’ve done with myself. I’ve come to the conclusion that I don’t know.

If I have a sore muscle I’m going to stretch it, or go to the massage therapist, I can ponder about it all day about, wow, where are the thoughts coming from, but at the end of the day, I need to go stretch that muscle. And I know three principles is not prescriptive, it’s descriptive. I fall back to that understanding of it.

So I just thought, I’m going to put together these fun techniques. I know they are helpful for calming. Body calming, and acupressure terms are energy, I can see energy sometimes. And so I’ve witnessed it, I’ve experienced it, let’s put them together.

I was so inspired. I thought I’m just going to create an outline. And I’m going to put this together for myself, and I’m going to do it. And then I thought, I am not alone. I’m going to share this, why don’t I just create 10 videos, and walk everybody through it? So I just basically did a very loose outline.

And I did it all ad hoc. I just turned on the camera, and I led through these exercises. And that’s what that’s where it came from. I thought I need to share this. So far, the reception has been amazing. And now it’s been long enough that people have finished it.

I’m already getting responses that every so far, every single person who has gotten back to me about it has said, I feel calmer, I’m not so afraid to go back to the office, I’m sleeping better. I’m waking up in a panic.

I’m not saying it can fix everything. But there’s something to be said for when we’re in a chronic state of fight or flight, whether it’s been because of a single trauma, or long-term collective trauma, like the pandemic. Sometimes we need to remind our system when you’re safe now, it’s over, can relax now. And there’s that body connect.

So this is that way of acknowledging the body and the thoughts we have about the body.

Alexandra: Well, that was great. We want to hear about this. I wanted to know more about the genesis of the idea.

I find there is this might be innocent approach in the three principles that we’re we tend to approach everything from the neck up.

What I’ve started to explore recently is that we’re a body and a soul. A friend of mine pointed out recently that, Syd Banks so often said, and so famously said, “Follow the feeling”, that was one of the things that he went back to again and again. Well, where do we feel things?

We feel them in our bodies? So I personally think we’re missing something when we don’t fold in our bodies when we’re exploring this stuff. I think it’s really, really important. So I love that you’re doing this.

What is the experiment entail? You’ve talked about exercises, but what does that look like specifically?Stephanie: They are a combination of things I’ve learned over the years. Mostly Eden method. Have you ever heard of Donna Eden?

Donna Eden is this wonderful magical creature who sees energy clearly, and she always has been. She’s getting older. I trained with her years and years ago.

And she works with bodies energies, like the chakras, like the meridians. She sees the systems. So I use some of those things from something called Brain Gym that, again, help the body rebalance the energies. And when I say the energies, I know it sounds so vague, but we are all energy, if the consciousness is energy, so let’s, let’s call it that.

And some pulls from my tapping experience, although I didn’t bring in much tapping other than the first day because tapping can be quite stimulating to the system. And the whole idea of this is to calm the system. So what I did was just bring in tap and breathe, which is in there derived from tapping. So instead of tapping on a point, you hold, you focus in and you take a breath.

So this was a way a calmer way to do this. I also run something called havening, which is a delightful technique that is so calming, and there’s science behind the EFT and the havening. Not this little harder to do science with the Eden work, but it’s mostly those techniques and some stuff that I’ve just created over the years.

I get insights to pull things together, and I go with the feeling. Really, it’s 10 days, and I’ve tried to keep the videos short, so they’re 11 to 15 minutes a day, for 10 days. You can skip days or whatever, but it’s just a 10 day process, and because I didn’t know how long it was going to take, first I was I thought, Oh, I’ll do this for 21 or 30 days, and it’s too much for a lot of people, I thought I’d start with 10.

And then, if people want to do it a second time or third time, just repeat it. And so far, some people are like, I’m good with the 10 days, and other people are like, I think I’m going to do it another time. So it’s really an experiment. I can’t tell you if it’s going to work for you or not. But certainly, so far the results have been happy to report that I’m hearing good things.

Alexandra: That’s great. I think it was in the Facebook group you mentioned one day that you had done one of the exercises in the morning, and then you were planning to do it in the afternoon or the evening again, as well.

There’s no harm in this, as well. What’s the worst that could happen? You feel a little calmer. Great!Stephanie: So I got up out of my seat, and I did the cross crawl thing. Wow. I moved a little, okay.

Alexandra: Exactly. Cross-crawl. I remember that. I went to a biokinesiologist years ago in Vancouver. And she would get us to do those occasionally.

Stephanie: That’s one of the exercises to do every day is the cross crawl correction. Because when we’ve been either under a lot of stress or trauma, or our system has been shocked, if we’ve had an illness. Donna Eden, who sees the energy, and other practitioners, Prune Harris is another energy practitioner who sees energy.

They see that our energies go into homo lateral mode for survival, meaning they it’s like you’re one side of the body versus the other versus being crossed over. And so I have so many of my clients and friends that I know too, who are practitioners, if they’re if they’ve been having anxious thoughts or feelings, doing the correction, to try and retrain your patterns back to crossing over, is game-changing. It’s such a simple exercise, and it feels really good.

And all sudden, you have access to your brain again. And when I do it, I didn’t realize I needed to do that’s been a game changer for me through this process. I think even that alone was something doing that over several, quite a few days. It’s I’m like, Ah, just it’s like, everything just feels normal again.

Alexandra: I’m going to say something really uninformed here. But I think what my biokinesiologist said when she recommended cross crawling is that, of course, our brains are, I’m not going to use the right word, but cross wired, so that our left eye is controlled by the right side of our brain, for example, and vice versa.

So that somehow ties into what you’re saying, right?

We don’t want our energy to be two parallel lines running. We want them to be crossing over like an X.Stephanie: Think of an infinity sign. That’s how I like to be like that. So according to that, even medicine and my personal experience. Yes, we’ll try it. I just like try it for yourself. If it feels good.

Alexandra: Yes, exactly.

What have you noticed personally as you’ve been doing the experiment yourself?Stephanie: Well, it’s funny, because when I made it, I knew that I was making it from the mindset of help doing it for others. And I knew that I would walk through it myself. But I also noticed at the end of videotaping the whole process, I thought to myself, I think that works, because I just started to notice, and now I’ve run through it as well.

And what I’m noticing is it’s not that the behaviors that I’ve wanted to shift just dropped away like that. But I’m starting to for myself, I’m just starting to notice, well, first of all, I feel a lot calmer, just throughout the day, that surprised me a bit. I didn’t realize that I wasn’t as calm as I thought I was.

And there’s like space between the choice of the behavior and the behavior. So like, oh, whereas before it felt like there’s no space, it’s ongoing. I’m going to hop on the illusion.

We all know when you have that space of okay, it doesn’t feel as scary. It doesn’t feel as compulsive. So that’s just what I’ve noticed. I’m going to run through it again, because I think for me, I had a little hint that I wanted to do it three times.

And that feeling of freedom to choose versus being like, I’m a victim too who felt like a victim of thought and like that, it’s just going to drive me somewhere. So it’s like you get back in the driver’s seat of the bus, which are we really in the driver’s seat, but, feels a little more like that it feels like I’m following my consciousness correctly, or I don’t even know how to explain that. But this feels like there’s more space for choice and to breathe.

Alexandra: Yes, exactly. That’s been my experience with other things as well, that creating that space between thought and behavior, just that tiny little gap, gives us a moment to breathe.

It made me think of mindfulness. It’s created the ability for you to be mindful of what’s actually happening. Rather than what I know. I can speak for myself personally. So often, I can just be following my thoughts, mindlessly and as though they’re the boss and they know everything. And, so just taking a step back, and, noticing what they’re doing is so helpful.

Stephanie: Without leading with the thought, it’s a yes. Leave to my brain or by the thoughts like, Nah, they maybe they need me to not be in charge here. There’s something in me that knows better.

Alexandra: That’s right. It was interesting that you said that EFT is stimulating. I hadn’t heard that before. I don’t know a ton about EFT.

Are there times then when it’s really helpful, and then in a case like this, where the objective is more calming, that you can back off that a little bit?Stephanie: It can be in the moment. With tapping, we’re usually addressing where the person is at that moment. So when they’re not calm, you can tap to address the not calm. So you hit that threshold where the calm starts to settle in.

And then, I may choose to tap and breathe. Or I may choose to do one or just stop and let the rest of that flow out. One thing I always recommend for people who are trying to sleep, if you wake up in the middle of the night and are trying to sleep, don’t tap. That’s a classic.

Sounds weird, but you can imagine tapping when you’re in bed, you just can’t sleep and you’re imagining tapping through your points. And it sounds weird that you say that to yourself. But you wake up in the morning, and you’re going, what happened? Wow, is that a lot actually for myself? If I wake up? Tapping can be just stimulating if you’ve been in sleep mode.

Alexandra: Okay, interesting.

Given that the principles tend to focus on our mind and our thinking, do you see a connection between a stressed, nervous system and a busy mind?Stephanie: Totally. And even from the perspective of when our amygdala is all lit up, and we’re in fight, flight, or freeze, we don’t have access to clarity of mind. Because we’re ready to go, ready to do something, we’re scared. We’re in survival mode.

I think when we get into that survival mode, our bodies react a certain way, our brain goes offline to get out of the way of what we need to do to survive.

And sometimes, that can look like overeating or shopping, it can be this is what I need to do to cope because this is too hard. I need to zone out. And so when are when we can get that amygdala to relax, okay, we’re not more safe. The whole nervous system can just get operating in a more appropriate manner.

And then our thoughts can come back online, in and the space between the thoughts to have that clarity of choice. It just allows that they just don’t go together clarity and clear, clear thinking and full-on survival mode. Like just they just don’t go well together. So that’s my take on that.

Alexandra: Absolutely. And, it occurs to me we often talk about I mean, insight can happen at any time. And I think it is a little my experience is a little easier to access when I’m a little calmer when there’s more space within me, and it’s I’m not in full-on crisis mode.

The experiment you’ve created strikes me as a way to get to that quiet place where insight is available, about what to do next or whatever.Stephanie: To get more availability for yourself.

Alexandra: Exactly.

Is there anything about the experiment that we haven’t touched on that you’d like to share? Or anything else?Stephanie: There’s something else going to talk about. I’m just wondering things and this is a little sidetrack is the one you’re talking about. I’m not going to go to another realm, just to put a little pin in that for some other conversation. But have you heard of human design?

Alexandra: The name sounds familiar, but I don’t know why.

Stephanie: So I actually got introduced to it by two three principles people: Marsha Madigan and Christian McNeil. They were exploring three principles in something called Human Design, which is basically it’s hard to explain what it is, but it looks at your chakra system and your meridians and your time of birth.

It’s this combo of astrology and eaching. It’s a download that this fellow had in the 80s. I’ve since become certified in that just because I was fascinated, and I think you are, too. We love these, like, how can I help myself and other people that have more clarity and insight and awareness?

And what was funny was when I learned about my chart, my body graph, the only places that I’m defined with who I am, is my head and my throat. That’s it. So I didn’t actually have anything going on other than conditioning. So it’s all about every place else was conditioned deeply.

So, the reason I bring this up here is because it’s about understanding what’s correct for you. And understanding, I listened to your q & a about where we can access wisdom. I love that. And what was interesting, what occurred to me and why I’m mentioning this now is because for different people, it comes in different ways.

And so to understand what is correct for you, in the next moment to moment, which may be I only need to do this for three days, or this doesn’t resonate with me, or whatever the next thing is, and Dr. Bill Pettit is that he says, I remember listening to a talk from him where and has, I love this so much.

He talked about how he was impacted by the principles in that he felt like, I don’t need to be thinking about that, that I just wait for the next index card for the next action to appear in front of me. I was like, Mike drop.. That’s the way it works, and, and I’ve embraced that.

And so with the human design, understanding, it’s about following your correct thing for you, which may be that it’s an inside you check in with yourself deep inside your body. For me, because in my chart, I don’t have anything inside, I have to speak to see what I believe and understand and decide is correct for me.

So it’s different for everybody. And I just wanted to just note that and even with this exercise and what is correct for people in that next moment, everyone’s method may be a little different. And our conditioning will tell us something else; our conditioning will be like, Oh, no, you have to do it this way.

I learned that you just have to go do this and go meditate. Well, is always in my mind and will never be that quiet mind because it’s fine. So when I learned that Marsha Madigan was the same way, she’s like, Oh, my mind is defined, I will never have a quiet mind.

Whereas other people who meditate they like, I just had no thoughts, and I’m never going to get there. And then when I realized, no, that’s okay. That’s how I’m built. It was a game changer for me, if it’s a game changer 50,000 times, but it really was, it was. I was like, Oh, that’s not who I am.

And that’s okay. And again, it goes back to that wholeness and okayness of who are we personally in this avatar in the game? That this is the Stephanie bundle.

But that was just the extra little piece I wanted to add on about learning what is understanding what is correct for you without all the conditioning so that you can trust the next index card that comes in front of you about what’s your appropriate for you next.

Alexandra: Yes, totally makes sense. I love that you’re pointing toward, everybody has their own way of navigating their life. There’s not one right way for everybody. That’s so important to point out.

When you talked about did you say that when you have that, the way that what to do next is because you verbalize it? Is that what you’re okay with?

How do you do that? Is that through talking to your partner? Or do you talk out loud to yourself? What does that look like?Stephanie: Yes, all of the above. Before I encountered human design, I realized one day that even though I thought something about a situation, there was a decision I needed to make, I noticed that as I was talking to people, something else was coming out of my mouth completely. It was shocking to me.

But I realized that is what is correct for me. And it was, and this is, even before I encountered human design, I thought I need to watch what I say. That’s my truth. What pops out of my head is not all of its truth. But that’s where I will discern the truth for me.

And that’s what, this type that I am is, a smaller part of the population. Most people can go inside and ask yes, no questions to their inner being. That’s the bulk of it, but most people can do that. Some people need to sleep on it. Some people need to listen to their little tiny voice from moment to moment. So it’s different for everyone.

There are quite a few different ways of accessing your knowing that when you start to play with that gets really fun because you start to hear it more.

Alexandra: When we know where to access wisdom for ourselves, then that becomes such a powerful tool to have in our toolbox, for just stumbling around not knowing where to look for that. For me, it’s usually journaling.

Journaling gets ideas out and lubricates things. And then if I leave something alone, like if I’m trying to make a decision, then it becomes very much a body-centric answer. That’s how it happens to me.

I love that you’re pointing out that it’s different for people.

Stephanie: When you journal, do you notice that does that feel like it’s your head thoughts coming out? Or does that feel like it’s just everything coming out? Or does that feel more like your wisdom coming out?Alexandra: It’s a bit of both, I can feel very often that my mind is really busy. And I’m writing down all that busy thought, it’s like going through layers. And once that’s out of me onto the page, then I get a little quieter.

I noticed that then I start to spend more time staring off into the distance rather than actually writing. But then what I’m writing becomes just clear; it’s definitely more centered. Sometimes I have insights right on the page, but I think that more often I’ll set it aside and go on with my day.

And then, at some point, then or days later, something will occur to me. That’s the truth for me. I love it. It’s good to have that awareness of ourselves. It really is for sure.

So we’ve talked about the reset your nervous system experiments. And it’s free, we should point out.

Where can people learn more about that and sign up for it?Stephanie: You could just go to my website, it’s innerpeaceandflow.com. And there’s just a link right under the main picture.

Alexandra: Great. I will put links in the show notes, so people can find it. So it’s inner peace and flow.com Is your website and if people go there they can find out also about your work with clients and that thing.

Tell us a little bit more about what you offer for people.Stephanie: I do tapping. I’ve done tapping for all these years. I also teach people how to tap. But over the years, after I encountered the three principles, I realized my whole practice changed because I stopped dealing with the path as regular EFT practitioners go diving into the past. You go memory, and I just was I It occurred to me, well, that’s not needed.

So basically now my practice is more about using bring it’s like a three-principles session. So because it’s so different from the other, I had to rename it. So I came up with the name Ultra EFT, which stands for understanding life through realization and awareness EFT because it’s different than regular EFT.

And then we’re starting to get results faster, less tears, less I’m really going to deep dive into all the painful memories. It’s made my practice so much easier. And people just have access to their own wisdom more easily. So anyway, that’s, so I work with people one on one, I’m going to be doing some stuff with human design, I’m going to be I work a lot with money.

With people’s money issues. I used to deal mostly with depression, anxiety, trauma in my early years. And I just feel like I’ve shifted to working with people with business, and money has been an ongoing fun thing that I always am passionate about, but my partner’s an economics instructor and was a stockbroker. All we do is dissect the economy every morning.

People need help with money issues because, just like anything else, food issues, money issues. It’s not that it doesn’t matter what the topic is. It’s about addressing all the thinking we have blocking us from correct action for ourselves. That doesn’t matter what the thing is. It really doesn’t matter. That’s what I’m doing now.

Alexandra: Very cool. Well, thank you, Stephanie. This has been lovely. It’s been great connecting with you again. And, I really appreciate it. Thanks for being on the show.

Stephanie: Likewise, thanks for having me.

Alexandra: Take care. Bye Bye.

Featured image photo by Aaron Burden on Unsplash

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How can we draw clear boundaries with people in our lives if everything we’re seeing and experiencing comes via the gift of Thought? Today we explore the difference between circumstances and experiences and how this awareness can inform us and help us to understand when a healthy boundary might be appropriate.

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Transcript of episodeHello, explorers, and welcome to Q&A Episode 16 of Unbroken podcast. I’m your host, Alexandra Amor.

And today I wanted to examine the question:

If our reality is created by thought, then how do we deal with boundaries?So this really has to do with relationships and situations in our life where we’re dealing with and interacting with other human beings. And I’m specifically thinking about personal, intimate relationships, partnerships, that kind of thing.

When I first started exploring this understanding, I noticed a lot of confusion and I still do occasionally from people. When we start to understand that our life is an inside out experience and that thought is being created through us, coming through us from the formless into the form. And the idea that what we experience is based on that thinking rather than based on the actual events that are going on outside ourselves.

The concise way to say that is we live in the world of our thinking, not in the world of our circumstances. Occasionally I see people exploring this, and then we get to the place where we realize that or we start to question how does that apply to intimate relationships? So, for example, if someone is feeling like they’re in a relationship that is unhealthy, that is whatever shade of that it that it could be, like, manipulative, or they’re dealing with a narcissist, or someone who’s maybe abusive, that kind of thing, verbally or otherwise.

The question becomes, if I’m creating that experience via thought, or, in other words, if I’m having that experience, and my understanding of it is always through thought, then how do I draw boundaries? And I see people ask, should they even draw boundaries in a situation like that? And it’s such a valid question. And it’s so important.

When I was in Portland a couple of months ago with Michael Neal and Barbara Patterson, Michael drew this diagram on the whiteboard at the front of the room. And he wasn’t talking about relationships at all. But I came away realizing this was the perfect way to explain this conundrum that people get into when they’re exploring this understanding.

The diagram looked like this:

His point was that in our lives, there are always these two different things going on. There’s the circumstance that’s happening. And I’ll give some examples in a second. And then there’s the experience that we have of that circumstance. The experience is our thinking, that’s where Thought comes into play.

Let’s say you had a circumstance where you stubbed your toe. That’s just a hard fact. You ran into the foot of the couch, and stubbed your toe. That’s the circumstance.

The experience, then, is how you experience that circumstance, via your thinking. So let’s say you’re in a rush to get to work, you might have a lot of thinking about how you’re going to be late. And this is going to screw up your day. And maybe you’re going to miss an important meeting, and all that kind of stuff, you’re going to have thinking of course about how painful it is.

Or maybe you’re someone who’s kind of hard on yourself, you might have a lot of thinking about how that stubbed toe is just a sign of your clumsiness, or the fact that you weren’t paying attention, that kind of thing.

You can see that all that thinking is variable. It depends on the person who’s encountering the circumstance. But the circumstance stays the same. You’ve stubbed your toe, that’s the fact.

Now we can drill into intimate relationships and dealing with difficult people. It’s exactly the same situation. So the circumstance could be that you’re having an argument with your spouse, or perhaps you feel like maybe your spouse is being verbally abusive, that could be the circumstance. And then your experience of that is going to be all the thinking that you have that’s related to that circumstance.

I had Phil Goddard on the show a few weeks ago, and he talked about the different the number of people that are in a relationship, it’s not just two. There’s my experience of me, there’s the other person’s experience of them. There’s the other person’s experience of me, there’s my experience of them. It goes on and on. It’s like one of those halls of mirrors.

When we encounter a difficult person, or a difficult situation, naturally, I mean, it just the way it works, we are going to have our own thinking about that situation. That’s the experience. That’s the thought that’s going through us. Additionally, what’s going on is the circumstance. And this is the place where we can draw boundaries.

I think it’s really important to see this with clarity. Because I think what happens sometimes is that people hear that we’re living our lives from the inside out, we live in the world of our thinking, not in the world of our circumstances. And what they hear from that is that whatever’s happening in our lives, whatever’s going on, it’s because or what’s the right way to put it, it’s, we’re experiencing it through thought, which is absolutely true. And what happens, then, I think, is that there’s some confusion about the idea that circumstances can actually happen.

So in other words, if you’re in a relationship with somebody who is perhaps being verbally abusive, there is your thought based experience of that. But there’s also the circumstance that has occurred. If you’re in a relationship with somebody who does things like maybe locks you out of the house, when they get mad, or something like that, that’s a circumstance that is very real. And, yes, you’re going to have your own thinking about it. And that thinking might be, could be anything from feeling sorry for yourself to feeling angry, what all all of those feelings on the spectrum and you might encounter any of them.

It’s okay to see that there is a circumstance happening that is not appropriate, that is damaging to you, or to the people around you. I wanted to bring this up, because it was so clear to me that this was the answer. When people have questions about relationships, and get a bit confused about how thought plays a role in our relationships with other people. So I hope that brings a little bit of clarity, if you’ve ever had that question about where to draw boundaries with people and how that looks when we are experiencing life via thought.

Both those things are true and like people say, these days, two things can be true at the same time. You can be living in the world of your thinking, which we all are in a given relationship and the circumstances of the relationship, maybe are not healthy.

So yeah, I just wanted to bring that up. It’s been on my mind for a little while. I hope that’s clear. If not, please let me know. Please send me your question. You can do that at AlexandraAmor.com/question.

Thank you for listening. I hope you found that helpful. And I look forward to talking to you again next week. Bye.

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Like so many of my guests, Paola Royal has long been interested in health and well-being. She has worked as a physiotherapist, studied Emotional Freedom Technique, among other modalities, but knew that there was a piece missing when it came to helping others heal.

Then, her mentor Ann Ross introduced her to the Three Principles. Now she is an author, podcaster and coach who leads the Living Lighter holistic weight loss programme.

Paola Royal worked in the medical sector from the age of 18. Her fascination with our human – being, and the interconnectivity of the physical body and universal mind led her to the work she is doing today.

She continued her studies training for 3 years in the scientific approach of nutrition with the BSY. She studied as a teacher for the Emotional Freedom Technique before she started an extensive training in the Three Principles as a paradigm, which is a pre-existing logic that describes and points to how our moment-to-moment experience of life is created. She has been a facilitator for 8 years and brings a wealth of experience to her work with clients.

Paola is the author of The Inner Game of Food & Diet.

You can find Paola Royal at healthylivingwithpaolaroyal.co.uk.

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Show Notes

• On the innate intelligence of the body
• Where to begin when trying to change an unwanted habit
• Integrating our bodies and minds on the path of healing
• What is autophagy and how does it affect our health?

Resources Mentioned in this Episode

• Paola’s podcast, The Inner Game of Food, Diet, and Life
• The Living Lighter holistic weight loss programme
• Elsie Spittle
• Keith Blevens
• An explanation of Autophagy
• Dr. Bill Pettit

Transcript of Interview with Paola RoyalAlexandra: Paola Royal welcome to Unbroken.

Paola: Thank you so much for inviting me, Alexandra.

Alexandra: My pleasure.

Why don’t you let us tell us a bit about your background and how you got interested in the three principles?Paola: I love that question. My background is working with clients since the age of 18. I worked as a physiotherapist I started to work more and more holistic. I was running my own practice in Switzerland before I came the third time to the UK, in 2010, to study there in the scientific approach of nutrition for three years.

And afterward, there was one piece of the puzzle to the human, to support my clients in the best way, the mind was still missing. And so I trained in EFT, Emotional Freedom Technique. And just when I finished I came to the three principles understanding because my mentor, Ann Ross, she started to train in the three principles.

I don’t know if you came across her. And she trained with, with various teachers, and so I thought, What the heck is the three principles? So I went online, and I came across some YouTube videos of Rudy and Jenny when they were still a couple, that was in I think, 2015- 2014, something like that. I get caught up with time quite a while ago.

And I immediately heard truth, it really hit home. And I thought, Oh, my goodness, I want to find out more about that. And so I joined and was running some meetups here in Exeter, and Devon, where I live. And so I did that. And there were different teachers coming down like Elsie Spittle, and Keith Blevins, and Rudy Kennard, and so on.

I did different courses went to London as well to give different courses. And I really wanted to be able to share to facilitate that. Because, for me, there was just nothing else anymore. It is really, since then, I don’t find the need to go anywhere else to look anywhere else. Because for me, every everything feeds into that.

And it’s a fundamental logic of how our moment is created. We have these three principles of mind, thought and consciousness, and depending how we use these principles that is creating the reality we live in.

Alexandra: Very simple.

Paola: Very simple. And it fits for me into absolutely everything. So like I said, I used to be a body worker with energy, psychology, and so on, and so on. And for me, that felt fed really nicely into that too. And to support people to live a healthier lifestyle. It was a much easier approach in a much more plausible approach in with my clients.

And since then, I support people to improve the health to lose weight. People with overwhelm anxiety and people who have problems with sleep issues, and pain management.

Alexandra: When did you start folding that into the work you were doing with clients? And how did you find that?Paola: I straightaway started to feed it in with my clients. I run groups and I work with people all over the world, one to one, and I wrote a book as well later on, but it took me one other step and that was when I heard then about autophagy I’d

Have you ever heard about autophagy? It is our self-healing mechanism on a physical level.

So when our insulin levels have really, really low for a long period of time, then our cells can start to regenerate. So they clean themselves up of all unwanted protein, virus, bacteria, funguses. And knowing from the principles that when I can see what’s going on for me and I can get out of my own way, then my mind gets quiet.

And I feel well and the same was also on a pure physical level, I mean, we say in the three principles, we experienced the body over the power of thought. But when we look we still are human beings, and we still have the physical being, which supports us day in and day out. And there is also the self-healing mechanism, which is, we are part of that oneness part of nature parts part of the intelligence behind life.

And nature, when you look out into nature, it is always recovering, constantly recovering. So for example, when you look at old factories, disguised factories, after a while, nature is taking over again and the birds start nesting in the ruins of the building, it’s beautiful to watch. And that is with our physical body the same way when we are able to get out of our own way, so to speak, when our insulin levels can really low for a longer period of time.

So that means every time when we eat, it doesn’t matter if it’s healthy or unhealthy. Every time when you eat, your insulin levels are slightly rising. So it always goes up and down, up and down and up and down. And when we can get out of our own way, then our cell system starts to recover as well and starts to heal itself to.

Alexandra: Interesting. And one of the questions that I wanted to ask you today does tie into that.

Where do you think our unwanted eating habits come from?Paola: Well, it is all about habits recreated since when we look back since the day you’re born, you’re living in the neutral power or life is guiding you through the neutral power. And then we take on board what our parents said, our relative said or teacher said, and we believe that to be true, and through that we creating also our habits, our eating habits.

So, a certain way our family used to eat. And then when we grow up the lifestyle we having what fits into our lifestyle and that is innocently creating the habits and that we carry through life. But all this happens when I can see I am the one who is innocently creating this constructs about my life, my habits, the beliefs about my life, when I can see it for what it is that it is God created innocently very innocently. When I understand that, then I’m able for I’m open for change.

Alexandra: Insight.Paola: Absolutely, it only works over insight. Because if I don’t have the insight that believe is a belief which are innocently created over time and space then when I don’t see that I keep judging myself that I don’t do what I want to do. I’m not treating myself with love and kindness.

And then it’s difficult. But when I can see that it’s all really innocently created. I see it’s all the innocence and I can see that and I’m more open I’m no how shall I say, then I can feel the love for my innocence. And then I can let it go. Only that I’m able to change and grow out of my limiting beliefs into something new.

Alexandra: That’s so beautiful. The love for my innocence. That’s gorgeous. I love that.

Do your clients, I guess sometimes, struggle with their eating. Is that correct?

Paola: Yes.

Alexandra: When you begin exploring this understanding, like if someone listening was struggling with that, where would you begin with them?Paola: I run a six months’ program. I first of all work really, really practically. Because what I find is a lot of clients of mine, they have been on all kinds of weight loss programs. Already everything to change the eating habits, but then never succeed. And what I find is, it is very much down to education, as your patient fundamental understanding of the food you’re eating, and the effect it has on your physical wellbeing.

And then it all goes into the mindset side of things. That’s where we start then talking about the understanding, and it goes very quickly into that, but I first start really with very practical advice. The first two, three times, and then we see it automatically feeds into the mindset side of things.

Alexandra: And the understanding of how thought works.

Paola: Straightaway mean, yes. So, it’s for my clients, I like them to see that their physical body is not something separate. It’s all one. And that is really important for me that they see that because the clients who come to me they see themselves somehow or their physical being somehow separate.

And when they understand that, actually, the food they are eating is affecting them on a cellular level. And they start to see that insightful that they’re actually innocently not supporting themselves. That’s already the start. And then it all goes into the principles after. Okay. No problem.

Alexandra: It’s such a good point about our body being such a big part of our lives. I say we’re walking around like we’re just a head, completely disconnected from our bodies and how wise they are, and how they’re always on our side, even with our cravings, trying to get our attention and wake us up to the brilliance of our bodies and of the way that we work. So, I completely understand.

That’s a great place to start.Paola: What I found is when what I see with my clients and people around me, in the understanding is when my mind is quiet and I have a better understanding about my life. And the life I’m living and the thought created reality I’m living in moment to moment to moment, I start to be more loving and kind with myself start to be more loving and kind with myself. I am getting less and less interested in to feed myself in a non-supportive way.

Alexandra: Right. When we connect with that innate well-being.

Paola: Because what we do a lot is or what people do a lot is compensating as well. In the moment when they don’t see that they experience is coming from thought, but they’re thinking it is coming from people, circumstances, events, then there is for me something to do to change my experience, right?

And then I want to compensate, I need to have a glass of wine to make me feel better. I need that chocolate to feel better. When I have a takeaway on the weekend, then that’s really satisfying for me. All of that feeds into that.

Alexandra: Exactly. I totally get it. One of the questions that I had sent you in advance was, was connected to this to the miraculous nature of the body and how it can help us when we’re trying to eat better.

So I’m glad that we came to that organically, that was really nice.

What changes do you see with your clients once they begin to put the pieces of this all together? The elements of thought and the body?Paola: It’s very interesting. So they come to me because of weight loss, for example. They’re normally in their 40s, 50s, 60s and they want to live a healthier lifestyle. And, first of all, for me, it’s not really about weight loss, but it is living a healthier lifestyle.

And then weight loss is actually just falling in effortlessly. And what I find it really quickly, it leads us into the understanding into the three principles. And then it goes into completely different areas of their life. So, for example, one client of mine I’m having at the moment, we talked about her husband.

He is quite supportive, very active. And he does intermittent fasting, and she could never get it done for herself. She had all these beliefs about herself, and she cannot do it. And she’s just not good enough, everyone else can do it. And I’m obese, and I just cannot do that, right? And then we started to talk about the, for her to understand her true nature. And through that, it’s folded into all different kinds of different parts of her life.

So, for example, she texted me one Sunday and said, you wouldn’t believe what I just did. I just drove with my son 105 miles to a theme park, which I never would have done before. Because I never trusted myself to drive alone to somewhere where I never have been before. So you see something completely different, but it all interlinked. It all comes together.

And so that’s one example. And then coming into the part just about the eating. I had one client, she came in our second meeting. She came to me and said, Oh, my God. I always thought when I have a packet of biscuits, I need to eat them all. I can’t just have one or two and then put the packet to the side. But she said I bought a packet of biscuits for my class. She was running a course herself, and she always gives us biscuits.

And she said I only had one and I didn’t have the feeling I needed to have more because she could see that her graving was also thought created. And when I can see II passing thought for what it is, I don’t need to bite into it anymore. I don’t need to act on passing thought, then I can sit there and say, okay. And it’s going to pass, I don’t need to act.

It’s like when you sit on the sofa in the evening and you thinking, oh, I need some chocolate. Now, when you watch something. And sometimes, well, sometimes, it works. Sometimes it doesn’t work. But also when it doesn’t work. You don’t beat yourself up for it anymore.

And that’s a big a biggie, as well, when, because a lot of people who have ongoing issues with losing weight or living a healthier lifestyle, they have loads of expectations on themselves, and then they don’t add up to the expectations. And then there’s a lot, a lot of judgment. And then they stop it and say, right, you see, I’m the one who cannot do this.

Everyone else can do that. And why are they so great in doing this, but I cannot succeed that you see, and there’s a lot of thinking going on. But when they can see thought for what it is, then there’s no need any more to act on it.

Alexandra: And stop adding more and more layers of thinking to what’s already there.Paola: Exactly. And then their mind gets quiet. There is no judgment. They start to be more loving and kind with themselves, more understanding. And then they continue again with the next meal. They may be pigged out, but then they say, Okay, fine. I did pig out. That’s okay. And then they continue again with the next man.

Alexandra: You have written a book called The Inner Game of Food and Diet about this exact subject.

What motivated you to write that book?Paola: When I came to the understanding, and then heard about our physical being, how we innocently get in our own way. And that everything is interconnected that we are nature, we are part of nature, we are part of this. intelligence behind life, whatever you want to call it, we are it.

And when I saw that, I thought there is no book out there which is really talking about that. I hadn’t seen your books in that time. I didn’t see any book really talking about that. And so I was interested, I was curious.

And because of this autophagy effect in our cells, I got curious about fasting and fasting triggers autophagy. And through that, I was really interested in feeding that all together, and that’s why I wrote my book.

Alexandra: Okay, so combining the principles with autophagy.Paola: So it is talking about what we have going for us, and it’s all researched. It’s scientifically proven, then coming in from the three principles. And then I also got plant-based recipes in the end. So I also got some effects, what I see very practically about proteins, carbohydrates, and so and so on.

I wanted to write a very simplistic book for people to have a guide to live a healthier lifestyle. And for me, without the principles that’s just simply not possible. It’s all thought created. And to see that makes it far easier for us.

Alexandra: Wow. Absolutely, for sure.

I wrote a memoir about an experience I had occult in the 1990s, and one of the things that was great about writing that book was that I learned a lot because having to explain it to somebody else, explain it to the reader in a logical way, and make it make sense and all that stuff brought to light some things for me.

Was there anything that you learned while you were writing your book?Paola: When I was writing my book, I was constantly learning, but when I wrote my book, not like you, I will say that I learned a lot when I researched what was going in the book, but it is mainly things I didn’t know beforehand which I wanted to put into paper and pass on the knowledge to people to live a healthier life so to be able to do that in an easier way.

Alexandra: That’s great. When you were working earlier within bodywork and EFT and those kinds of things, and you said that it felt like there was something missing.

It must be so much more satisfying now to have all the pieces in place, essentially.Paola: Oh, god. But it starts with yourself. So it starts with me because my life changed, and my life is so much more quiet these days and more loving and kind. I’m more interested with the essence to connect with the essence of people than the constructs they’re holding. And through that, oh, my relationship changed, and I have a completely different relationship to my clients today.

And it’s like you’re very different, like 3P classes. When you see the client so you see what’s going on for them I very quickly see what is holding them back to live the life they want to live

It’s a very interesting one. It’s feeding into it because the thing is thought manifests itself. It can manifest itself in our physical being. It’s an information so our brain is an organ and thought is coming in and gives us some info can give us some information.

I think Bill Pettit said once every pain you’re holding is a love letter from your body letting us know where we are. It’s really beautiful. That’s exactly what is happening. And when I can see it, then I have a very quick and easy way to unravel it all.

Alexandra: With your clients. Exactly. Oh, that’s so great. Well, it’s been lovely chatting with you today.

Is there anything we haven’t touched on that you’d like to share with the listeners?Paola: No not really, I just would like to share one thing which I find always important is what I said in the beginning as well, your body is not separate from you. Your cells, they have one main function, and that is to constantly support your healing journey.

And whatever food we are putting in it can help this amazing system to do its work in the best way. Or it can start to create problems. And when you see that as more nutrients there are in the Earth is healthier plants. They’re growing. And we have receptors in us to take up all these nutrients from these plants, so it’s like a natural circle we are part of.

So when I understand how my moment experience is created, and I’m able to get out of my own way, my mind starts to be more quiet, then I want to be more loving and kind with myself, and I can feed myself better. And I want to look out at what food I’m actually consuming. That’s it. That is a start for everyone who’s listening.

Alexandra: Nice That’s a beautiful start. Thank you.

Where can we find out more about you and your work?Paola: My website is called HealthyLivingwithPaolaRoyal.co.uk. You find my book, The Inner Game of Food and Diet on Amazon. And I also have a podcast, The Inner Game of Food, Diet, and Life on Spotify. You can also find it on my website, on Apple and Google.

And, I have my own radio show as well in Exeter, and that’s on Mix cloud as well. I look forward to hear from each and every one.

Alexandra: Well, that’s a lot. That’s great. Thank you so much. So I will, as ever, put links in the show notes at UnbrokenPodcast.com so people can find out more about that and follow you on in all the all the places that they can do so.

Thank you, Paula. It’s been just lovely talking to you.

Paola: It was really lovely talking to you. Thank you for writing me.

Alexandra: You’re more than welcome. Take care. Bye.

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A busy, insecure mind can cause all kinds of problems in our lives: misunderstandings with friends or family, unnecessary worry and anxiety, a lack of clarity about decisions and much more.

A busy, insecure mind can also contribute to creating or maintaining an unwanted habit. In this podcast episode, I explore why that is and how to choose an alternative approach.

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Transcript of episodeHello, explorers, welcome to Q&A Episode 15 of Unbroken podcast. I’m your host, Alexandra Amor.

I’m here today with the question:

How does a quiet mind relate to weight loss?This was something I was thinking about a week or so ago, and came up with the metaphor of a clock and the gears inside a clock. If you found this episode via social media posts, you’ll see that in the sharing image, I use an image of those metal gears that are inside a mechanical clock. And here’s why I did that.

It seems to me that very often, our minds can innocently feel like the weight of the world is on their shoulders. We have these busy problem solving brains that are really smart, really adapted to our lives as human beings, and very often working super hard to make sure that our lives are organized and safe, primarily. And that we are more often in a situation where we know what’s going to happen. Our minds always like what they know versus what they don’t know. So there can just be a lot of really super busy activity going on in there.

And the way I saw it, and the reason I use the image of the gears in the clock is that our mind, our brains are really one of the tiny little gears that are inside a mechanical clock. And if you’ve ever seen inside a clock, it’s quite surprising actually, the first time I saw it, there’s so much going on. Gears of all different sizes. And so if you can imagine that our mind it feels like the burden of responsibility very often can feel like it’s on our mind, and that it has to do all the heavy lifting, or all the hard work of keeping the gears of life moving. And the gears of the world and the gears of the people around us and the universe and all that kind of stuff.

When we begin to see that our brain is just a tiny little gear in the greater picture of the greater landscape of that mechanical operation of the inside of the clock. And that actually, the gear, the small gear isn’t doing any of the moving of any of the other gears. It’s being turned because of the greater mechanical things that are going on, because the clock maker has wound up the clock, and therefore, our brains are actually responsible for so much less than we think they are.

That brings us to the topic of weight loss and an unwanted overeating habit. Speaking for myself, personally, what I know is that when I felt like the burden of the world was entirely on me, and when my brain was assuming that it was the thing, keeping the universe running, keeping my life on track, that felt like a lot of pressure. It really felt like honestly too much pressure. And that kind of strain and stress can then be what leads to unwanted habits.

We very naturally reach for substances that are going to soothe and comfort us and give us some relief from all the busyness and the chatter and the noise and the weight pun intended of all that responsibility. Feeling like we’re responsible for keeping everything moving for keeping the clock in motion.

When we begin to explore this understanding and see that our lives and the experiences within them are flowing through us, rather than being controlled by us, then the strain a lot of the strain and stress and pressure that we’ve been feeling fall away. And when that happens, then naturally there’s less need for us to reach for our unwanted habit. So that’s how a quiet mind is related to weight loss.

I know in the beginning of my exploration of this understanding, I almost Well, I was going to say almost, but I added more thinking to what was going on in my head innocently. Thinking that learning about this understanding, I guess, trying to get my head around it my brain around it was, it was more complex than it actually is. And the longer I explore the Inside Out understanding, the more I see how simple it is, and the more I see how much I can relax into the wisdom of the universe, that’s already there.

So in other words, I can just carry on with my life, doing my little cog in the wheel things, and the greater mechanism of the clock is going to keep my life running. And, in fact, there’s very little that I need to do or to and to think about, in order to make that happen.

The more I can just let my mind naturally settle, then the more flowy my life becomes. The more I rely on this idea that there’s a greater mechanism at play, that there’s something greater than myself that is flowing through and living my life, the more I can relax and settle down, and have less need for my previously unwanted habits.

I hope that’s not too clunky. I liked the metaphor when I thought of it. And I just hope it’s helpful for you to kind of visualize the gears in a clock, if you picture a big grandfather clock or something, and imagine that, yes, you are in there, you are working as a tiny little cog. But there’s something greater at play, and you can rely on the fact that that is happening, and maybe even begin to relax a little bit yourself about how you’re living your life.

I hope that’s been helpful. And as ever, if you have a question, please go to AlexandraAmor.com/question, and fill out the form there and I’ll be happy to answer.

Take care and I will talk to you again next week.

Featured image photo by Laura Ockel on Unsplash

The post Q&A 15 – How is a quiet mind related to weight loss? appeared first on Alexandra Amor.

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Coach and author Sheela Masand received the idea to interview those who had learned directly from Sydney Banks about the three principles that describe how we experience human life. That idea became Inside Out Transformation: A Revolutionary Guide for Coaches, Therapists, and Counsellors, which has been described by reviewers at ‘extraordinary’, ‘powerful, engaging and inspiring’ and ‘brilliantly lucid’.

If you’re curious about what the three principles are and how they apply to your life, and to easing your suffering, Sheela’s book is a great place to start.

In 2010 Sheela Masand was introduced to a psycho-spiritual understanding called The Three Principles discovered by Sydney Banks, also referred to as the inside-out understanding. She didn’t know it then, but her life was to be infused with its unique and undeniable transformative magic. Her coaching business slowly transformed in the same way – she couldn’t help but share the Principles in all her work.

You can find Sheela Masand at SheelaMasand.com.

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Show Notes

• Seeing for the first time that life only works one way (i.e., inside-out)
• Do affirmations help create change?
• Looking upstream to see that we live in a world of thought
• What heart-centred business owners commonly struggle with
• On tackling a big project like writing a book

Resources Mentioned in this Episode

• Jamie Smart
• We didn’t discuss him but I’m going to mention Tad Hargrave and Marketing for Hippies
• Jack Pransky
• George and Linda Pransky
• Chana Studley
• The Viva Event
• Uncovering the Extraordinary Coach Within with Joe Bailey

Transcript of Interview with Sheela MasandAlexandra: Sheela Masand, welcome to Unbroken.

Sheela: Thank you. Good to be here. It’s lovely to have you here.

Alexandra: Why don’t you tell us a little bit about your background and how you came to find the three principles?

Sheela: I don’t know how far back in time we need to go. But just to say that I live in Spain. I am British. And I’ve lived in Spain since 1986, which was a long time ago.

I was married and had two beautiful daughters. And along the way, I got divorced. That’s one thing. But along the way, I became self-employed. It’s one of those things I always knew. In the back of my mind, my dad was very entrepreneurial.

I always had this sense that I would, one day, have my own business. I didn’t set out career-wise to do that. But it serendipitously and landed in my lap to join up with somebody become in partnership and open a British food and drink import business here in Spain, which I never thought I would do that.

And it was very successful, like, super successful in the sense that we ended up with 20 employees in a warehouse. And, it was very, very, very successful in its day. And then, unfortunately, my business partner died at a very young age. He was only 48, and very unexpectedly left me with this business.

A few years have gone by, and I was already exploring other things that I wanted to do, I’d become vegetarian. So importing bacon and sausages and pork pies from the UK wasn’t really sitting very well with me anymore. I was weighing I need to be doing something, and I wanted to do something alternative in the helping field. And come across coaching. And I was exploring different modalities.

We’d already decided I was going to become a silent partner in this business that we had that was flourishing. But then, as I say, he died. And I ended up with this business I didn’t really want because legally, I had to take it up, take it on, while I didn’t have to. But I chose to because there were all these people rely on me, telling me they have mortgages to pay, etc.

And then the recession hit, hard times hit, and things didn’t go so well. So I ended up with a lot of debt. And the reason I’m sharing the backstory because this is how I came into the three principles. In my journey of looking for what was my next step in terms of my career or business, I bumped into an NLP coaching course out here in Spain, and I did that I love it. I really enjoyed it.

I ended up joining Jaime Smarts’ email list because he was one of the best NLP around at the time. And little did I know at that point in time that he’d started to change paths, change courses, because he had come across the three principles. But I didn’t know that, and neither did anybody else on this email list. So this email drops into my inbox saying – and bear in mind that I was in financial distress at this point in time, lots of lots of debt, and didn’t know how I was going to get out of it.

So this email lands in my inbox saying if the secret is so great, show me the money. He’s a very clever man in terms of wording and NLP and things as well. But if people don’t know The Secret, it’s all about the law of attraction, it’s a book and a movie. And I had lots of debt so I looked in that direction as well, and nothing had worked for me. So I was curious, I thought, okay, he’s gonna teach me what he was doing.

He was selling a DVD set he recorded a two-day event in the UK that it did in London and sold that the recording. So I send off for the DVD set and sit down in my living room with my then-partner, we start watching, and I’m expecting him to show me how to create loads of money, and I there’s some magic way of creating money.

However, there wasn’t anything in there much like that. It was much it was all about pointing in the direction of the three principles, which actually was far more of far more value to me, far more value.

But in retrospect, I can see that’s what happened on an intellectual level. What I heard really clearly that was like, I’ve never seen that before was when he talked about life only working one way, 100% of the time, we’re creating our own experience. 100% of the time. It wasn’t that through personal development stuff that I’ve done in the NLP, and the coaching and coaching courses that I knew that money didn’t bring me happiness, I got that.

But this idea that it’s 100% always that way. And never another way, really piqued my curiosity and at the end of the two days, he left us with, don’t take my word for it, go into your own life, look, test it out, see if it’s true, that’s what I suggest you do. So I did be the good girl that I am did my homework.

And started it started really looking like, seriously, am I creating my own experience? At the time, I had a partner who would very often leave his socks on the floor wherever they were taken off, and I’ve noticed that I’m bringing this up because it’s women always laugh about. It’s, like, a common husband problem, right? Like, they just drop clothes wherever they are.

Is it the socks that are creating my upset? Is the socks on the floor? I didn’t feel like that every day. Sometimes I would just dismiss it. I wouldn’t even think twice about it. Other times, I’ve just smiled. And other days, I was really annoyed.

So it was like, well, the fact that it wasn’t always the same reaction told me very clearly that this is really an inside out world. We are creating our own experience 100% of the time. And so here in this two-day event, Jamie had said, I’m going to put on another few of these in the next year, I can’t remember he said three or four more.

I remember turning to my partner and saying I’m going there. So when I say I was touched, it was like it was really like I’m going, and I went over to London, I think it was three times in a row. Every time he did one of those events, I just wanted to be back in the room.

And the really curious thing about that is that it didn’t say anything too much different. Every time I went, it was always pointing, talking about the principles in different ways. But that was a message, I just see that my heart kept drawing me and taking me back, thinking that there was something for me. I was so taken. And by this time, I’ve got some coaching clients.

I didn’t know how to share it with them. The story could go on and on and on about how I’m doing what where I am today. But I’ll stop there because I think you might have something else to ask me.

Alexandra: A couple of follow-up questions. One of the things that I always find so interesting when I’m interviewing people is that so very often, and myself included, we try all kinds of different things on the route to finding their principles, and that was certainly the case for you with NLP and some other things. Was it hypnotherapy?

Sheela: I became a Louise Hay teacher.

Alexandra: I always wonder if you can describe what’s different about all those different modalities and the three principles. And then maybe a follow-up question would be, when you were doing those other things, were there any feelings in you that it was they weren’t quite hitting the mark at the time? Or was it only when you came to this that you saw that?Sheela: Well for me, what really struck me when I came across the principles and started delving deeper was, this is the basis. So this is the building block, these are the building blocks of life.

These three principles are a description of how life works, how we work psychologically, and who we truly are in our true nature, which is not which is formless, the formless and the form, and I just I suppose I came when I say I came at it intellectually, in the psychology route.

Like I said, that’s what I heard first was we’re creating it’s an inside out, well, we’re creating that spirit. And then, along the way, I started really dropping into this idea, or this truth now as I see it, that our true nature is essence is unbreakable.

We are definitely unbreakable. And so, what I started seeing was the techniques, let’s call them the modalities, like the hypnotherapy, or the NLP, those techniques, there’s nothing wrong with techniques.

But for me, the principles felt like, and still do, if we can just see the truth, how we work, if we understand how we work. And we understand that insight is the thing that shifts the needle. And that was one of the major things I saw as well. It’s like when a person has a true insight, that’s when things completely change. That’s when transformation happens.

Whereas a lot of a lot of things that so, for example, the Louise Hay work, and I’m not again, nothing against any of these, these things have helped me tremendously. And they do help lots of people.

But for example, with the affirmations with Louise Hay, I would be helping people create their affirmations I was using affirmations.

But at the same time, I wasn’t really believing it something to say something decided something, hoping it would change. But it wasn’t coming from wisdom, as we talked about, and it wasn’t coming from a place for me. It was something that somebody else had taught me to do.

It wasn’t from me, and it wasn’t serving me because it was something that somebody else had come across, I really see Louise Hay obviously had major insights, major shifts in her life, major transformation, and then went on to help other people. But what I did see is it didn’t work for everybody.

I would run the workshops, and people would have a lovely time. But it didn’t seem to stick. It didn’t continue with affirmations. They kept coming back for more and coming back for more. I get that because they came back for the nice feeling. And we do beautiful things like affirmation baths, which are gorgeous somebody standard people stand around you and just say beautiful things to you, so literally that.

That’s in the moment, but it didn’t stick.

Alexandra: The other question was at the time did you notice if anything was missing.Sheela:x Why is it such hard work? I think that was it.

Does it really have to be this hard? That was really, everybody’s saying all this stuff? And it also felt as well with NLP. For example, blasting limiting beliefs was one of busting limiting beliefs. And so but limiting beliefs, if you like, are forever, like the never-ending. It’s like you find another one.

And now you find another one. So it did feel like a never-ending job in a way that there would always be more that surfaced. And coming across the principles for me was the it’s more upstream than that is like, just seeing that it’s all thought, and you don’t have to believe any of it.

And none of it means anything. It means nothing unless you get to assign a meaning to it. Just knowing that none of it. I’m not my thinking, I am the container of it, the space within which all that arises. That was huge. For me. It was huge for me, and it just, it simplified things. I think it’s really simplified things, which I love. I love simplicity.

Alexandra: Me too. And I can really relate to that hard work piece, especially having been on a similar journey myself. And sadly, the conclusion that I always came to was I must be doing this wrong.

There must be something wrong with me that I can’t get this thing to work.Sheela: I don’t actually see any of it wasted. I think it’s no, really see now that life is working for us. And we just get presented with more opportunities and more nudges and look in this direction. That’s where I’m at now.

And just to say, and I think with a lot of the teachings that I was listening to before, and I was following before, it may just have been the way I heard it. But it was like negative emotion, bad; positive emotion, good. Positive thinking, and obviously the affirmations, it was all about turning the negative into a positive.

And now I see, it’s all welcome. There’s all there’s room for it all. And that has been really helpful to me.

Alexandra: One of the things you offer is coaching for heart-centered business owners. I love that phrase that you use on your website.

What do you find is a hurdle that that group of people tends to commonly face in their business ownership?Sheela: There’s more than one hurdle. But the very common one is, I don’t like marketing. I don’t like selling myself. I don’t want to talk about money, and I don’t like sales. Can you tell me how to do it without doing that?

That would be the major hurdle is most heart-centered business owners they’re in the business of healing and helping and service. But you don’t like the idea of up sales or yucky marketing? It’s all feels very sleazy.

That’s part of my process when I’m working with people, is to help them get past that to see that it doesn’t have to be like that. And you don’t have to do all the things that you’re being told you have to do. I mean, there are so many.

There’s a lot of noise out there in sales and marketing. And there are lots of experts that tell you their thing is the best thing. Here’s the magic formula. This is the one, this is the only thing you need. And you will have your 100,000 whatever. And that’s just not true.

Alexandra: I heard someone say the other day, and I just love this so much that hundreds of years ago, heart-centered business owners would have been shamans, the shamans of the tribe, or the group or the community, and the community would have supported that person in exchange for the healing and everything that they provided.

Our culture and our society just isn’t set up that way anymore. So now it’s on us to do both things, to bring healing to the people that we encounter, and to feed ourselves and keep a roof over our heads.

I just thought that was such a beautiful way to illustrate the change that’s happened for that type of business owner and what’s in their lap or on their plate. Sheela: That’s really interesting. In religion, it still works that way, doesn’t it? I mean, even government supports churches. Here in Spain, I don’t know what it’s like another but it was quite a revelation to me when I did my tax return.

And if you don’t choose to give to another social enterprise, it automatically goes to the Catholic Church as part of your tax returns. So it’s this you have to decide which box to tick. And that’s it. So it’s like pretty they get a good chunk of money from our taxes.

Alexandra: Let’s talk about your most recent book, which is called Inside Out Transformation.

Tell us about the book, because it’s a really interesting structure, and I loved learning about it. And what inspired you to write it?Sheela: Well, thank you for saying ‘my most recent book’ as it is my one and only. But, a big achievement for me, because I always had this sense that I would be self-employed and have some business but I never felt like one day I’d write a book. It’s interesting because I don’t think I was inspired.

Apart from I had an inspired idea. I guess that’s how it happened. So I had this idea that came in, it was literally interview Syd’s [Sydney Banks’] direct students, the first generation. That’s the whole idea was that just interview them and create a book around it. And it was one of those ideas that just kept coming back, and it kept coming back, and I didn’t do anything about it, and kept coming back.

In the end, Jack Pransky is a friend and I’ve arranged organized retreats and trainings for him here in Spain many, many times over the years. And he’s an author authored many books. So one time he was here, I said, Jack, I’ve had this idea for a book. So I told him, and he said, I think it’s a brilliant idea, Sheela, go for it. So that was my confirmation. I was like, okay, I’ve tested the water, he thinks it’s a great idea.

And he’s one of the direct students. He’s one of the people that I actually did interview in the end and he was very helpful, because he gave me the list of I don’t know all the names of since direct students. So he gave me a list, a comprehensive list. And basically, that’s how it happened. And it was, like, one foot in front of the other.

Okay, well, what’s the next step? The next step is to write to these people. because if they didn’t say, Yes, I didn’t have a book, it was like, okay, ask them. And, of course, lots of them answered. And lots of them said yes. Great idea. And so it was literally just them coming up with some questions and interviewing them.

Then on Zoom, like we are now and the audio and the video and, and then I transcribed and edited, and so it went on. So, it was published. It took me a long time, though. I remember Jack saying at the beginning, it takes me, he said, three years or four years now, three years or four years to write a book.

And I was like, Really, but it took me four years to get from start to finish, at least I think. Out of actually reaching out to somebody and saying, will you be part of the book? Because, because he said, I remember him saying to me as well, you need to make it a full project. And that’s exactly what I had to do.

Because it was always something that came at the end of the I was running, running my business and doing all the admin. And that would be when I’ve got time, I’ll get to the book when I get tired. And then there was never time. So, in the end, I had to make it a project that was like, Okay, I’ve got to get this done. I really wanted to get it done. As I sit on some really good material, people love to read. So, that’s how it came about.

Alexandra: What was it about? Maybe this is an obvious question, but let’s go there anyway.

What was it about interviewing those people that had been directly taught by Sydney Banks that appealed to you?Sheela: Again, I don’t know, it’s just the idea. Literally, it wasn’t me that thought that up. It really felt like this is as like, okay. And then I could tell you. That’s a good idea. But it literally was this idea came in, I was like, okay, and now I can justify it in lots of ways.

But one of them being, well, they’re not going to be around forever other and the three principles are not going anywhere. And in years to come, 20 years, 30 years, 40 years, 50 years, people will want to hear from these people. So I can see in retrospect, what a great idea that to capture something and have it in a book in book form.

And especially, it’s directed at coaches, and counselors and therapists. So the practitioners in the field. I think it’s been interesting reading for people who are not in that field to know they’ve picked up a lot.

Alexandra: Absolutely. And it seems to me that there’s something about the linear lineage and keeping that alive. And Syd, of course, passed away. And so the next best thing is, talking to those people who were there and knew him and really absorbed what he had to say firsthand because the rest of us can’t anymore.

Other than through his talks and recorded things and books and that things. So you had been following the principles for a while, at that point, obviously, when you had this idea. I’d love to hear about what you learned through the process. What you saw.

Was there any anything that really came to light for you, while you were recording the interviews? Sheela: I think for me being a coach myself, I was curious to hear. I had, for example, again, Jack being here. I’ve been through his coach training many times. So I knew his point of view. I knew how he works and how he taught and how he works with clients.

I’d heard a little bit about it from George and Linda [Pransky] but the others I hadn’t not so much. So I was really very curious myself as a coach to see if I was doing it right. And what came to light very quickly for me, and maybe it was because I was looking through that lens of the right way to do this.

And these people that were with him and they must have picked up on that or the ways of feeling with people.

What became very clear was there is no right way to do this. For me, there’s just no, there isn’t one way. It’s like, you can’t say, this is how you coach on the three principles perspective, this is how you have therapy sessions with these people when you’re wanting to teach them the three principles or coach form the three principles. It just became really, really clear that there isn’t any right way to do this.

A lot of commonalities, lots and lots of common threads in the way that they all work. pointing people back to their own wisdom, listening, always rapport is really important. And always coming back to that, but they’re not all doing this thing called coaching or therapy or counseling in the same way. They’re just not and that was very reassuring. And it has been for people that I’ve spoken to him, for people that I’ve read the book. It’s about creating your own art of coaching.

Alexandra: Well, that makes me feel relieved. I love hearing, that’s really great. I’m glad to hear that. And so I just want to do a follow-up then.

Was there anything else that you saw or learned during that process? And it could be about what the process of writing a book taught you maybe about yourself.Sheela: I was gonna say that I’m slow. It took me so long. It looks easier than it is, that’s for sure. And there’s a lot more to writing a book and formatting a book and editing a book and proofreading a book, and getting a cover done.

There is a lot more to a book than meets the eye. I have a lot of admiration for people who write books now and get them out some self-published and get them out to market, I’ve got a deep, much deeper appreciation of book writing, that’s for sure. And in the also, I think the again, well again, but these people that I interviewed, the leaders that I interviewed, just how generous they were with their time, and help was I wasn’t surprised, because that’s been my experience.

But they were some of them wanted to get, I edited and sent back and had them obviously all approved their chapters before it went, they went to print. And some of them really went through them with a fine tooth comb and kept changing with them do later just want to change this line and really dedicated and committed to having the best that they could, or there’s not so much I’m not they just said yet great job. I’m happy with that.

So it was interesting as well to see the different ways of being, but I was just all of them just so grateful that they gave me their time. And they were willing to go over it at the end as well and give me their approval for the final cut and, then interviewing them or pretty much all of them, giving me more time, and they were very supportive.

Alexandra: That’s nice, must have been so lovely to talk to all those people. I get so much out of these interviews. I always feel like it’s such a treat for me every week to talk to somebody. So, must have been incredible.

Sheela: Same for me when I was I was doing those interviews with when I launched the book almost a year ago now.

Alexandra: Do you feel like it’s affected your coaching practice at all? In other words, is it helpful to have a book?Sheela: As in, more clients for me? Do you mean? Well, it will vary in shape. I was just going to say, I’m not sure but actually, what happened and I had being a bring out what I call myself a business coach, holistic business coach.

I knew when I was writing this book, I knew that the traditional way of seeing a book as a big business card, that’s why people write books a lot of the time to get business and all the things that I read around it when you write nonfiction, it’s all about how you can use that as a platform. This was such a different as I say, the idea is popped in.

It wasn’t me trying to do anything creative strategy around creating clients or anything like that. I thought well, if something just bubbles up and somebody comes again if I have an inspired idea or follow it.

I was writing a book, nothing published nothing. And then I get a message from a woman called Chana Studley, who has authored a couple of her own books, and she actually wrote me a really nice review for the book.

And the review, she actually said something like, I felt like I went through a coaching course while reading this book. And she dropped this note and said, Sheela, I know you’ve probably thought about this already. She said, but what do you think about doing a book club around your book? And it had that that floated around. It seemed like an obvious thing to do.

But I hadn’t really inspired me, so I haven’t done anything about it. And I said, well, and I thought I was curious as one of the ways you wrote into me about that as my book thing. What is it? What, why? And she said, Because I wrote back to her. She said, Well, I’ve done a book club around my books. She’s got two books out by that time called Painless.

She just did a book. But she said, Well, actually, I learned that other people were doing book clubs around my book, and I thought, well, if they’re doing it and I could do. And I thought, well, she’s got a bit of experience. Let me have a chat with them.

So we started chatting, and what came out of that thought was actually it would, it was there was so much more on offer than a book club. And what we did was we created a coaching course between inside that transformation coaching course was born.

And we actually ran that by the end of last year in November, January, December, January, February, I think it was huge, so it was amazing. Now I never in a million years honestly thought that I would be teaching a coaching course. But it went really well. It filled it up pretty much and it was online, and people had really good experiences. We had some lovely testimonials from it. So yes, in that respect, yes. I almost forgot about that.

Alexandra: How great that it just came about so organically.Sheela: I love it. I’m really leaning into that now in life is really a wisdom lead these things, these this is the way out. This is the way I’m in my intention is to live from that space. Not that I don’t get it right all the time. But I’m finding that I’m having a lot more.

Alexandra: Me too. Absolutely. Trying to live from that space. I always describe it as the other way of forcing things.

I tend to be very proud project-driven, and it was like pushing rocks up a river. Really hard work. And now it’s so much less work and so much more joy I experience.

Sheela: 100% for that.

Alexandra: You something else that you’re doing that you’ve done is you’ve co-founded the Viva event, which is coaching, would you call it like a retreat or workshop?Sheela: No, I do organize retreats. But actually, the Viva event is a hybrid. I just think of it as a hybrid between a conference and a party. It’s more for conferences, or you sit, and you listen and ask questions or whatever might happen. But there’s an element of fun and aliveness.

And where I live in the world, I live in a beautiful part of the world. And we run the Viva event, specifically at the beginning of November, when in Europe, the weather is not great in most of Europe, Northern Europe, so people really appreciate coming. So where I live it we have the World Health Organization’s as is one of the healthiest climates in the world, where I live, we have something like 320 or 30 days of sunshine a year.

So it’s not incredibly hot in the winter, but it’s sunny and bright. And people really appreciate that when they live in Northern Europe. Dark. So that’s one aspect of it, and it’s up by the sea on the Mediterranean. And we’ve got mountains as well so people will go trekking so there’s a bit of everything for people. It is a holiday town, but it’s not a really busy holiday town.

There’s lots of beautiful cafes and restaurants. So people come and it’s all about connection as well connection, joy and relaxation. So we have and we have some wonderful speakers. Now when we first started soon. I think it was 2015 was the first one. So we’ve had a break because of COVID. We did five tilts 1415, 1515 We started.

And it came about because we saw we saw, I don’t know, well, we wanted to create something in Europe, where we would bring European speakers in. Because we thought that the London conference which had been going and there was seem to be bringing mainly American speakers and Canadian speakers over. And we saw a gap, if you like, why don’t we have some European speakers?

So that’s how it started. It’s not quite, it’s not where we are right now because we do bring in American speakers. Because but we didn’t choose to do that. And that’s what I love about my journey with Viva has been, again, very organic, very wisdom led, like, the first I think the first one that asked us if they could come was Elsie Spittle. So from Canada, and she’d heard about the Viva event, I think it was year three.

And she contacted us and said she was going to be in Europe. And would it be would we she was going to come over? She was writing a book. So we’re going to be in Spain on a writing retreat. And could she come visit as Eva? Do we like? Yes. That started the trickle of Americans wanting to come over and as inviting as well. But we are, so we have a mixture of well-known practitioners.

So first-generation SIDS, Derrick students, and more unknown because just because they’re not well known, doesn’t mean they’re not great facilitators. And so, and again, we wanted to include your European. I want to be very inclusive and this year, I think we’ve got a great lineup of device, diverse speakers.

And we want to be, so very inclusive. So we’re very excited. And it’s, we have keynote speakers, who are in the stage in the main room, then we have three breakout rooms, breakout sessions, we’ll go on in there. And then we’re what we love, what I love, particularly other surprises. So on the program that we give them as they walk through the door, there’ll be surprises and then nobody knows what’s going to happen.

And we love that element of surprise. So it can be anything from a singer or some dancing or some games or some whatever. we just we don’t like to let on obviously people come back year after year to viva. I have lots of returners. Some of them, I’ve seen some of the things that they got an idea of what’s going to happen, but we’ve got loads of new people come in this year that have never been so very excited to meet all these new people.

Alexandra: Nice. And so we’re recording this in May 2023. And the so vivo happens in early November.

Sheela: November, before this year, is the fourth, fifth, and sixth is always before the first weekend in November in November.

Alexandra: Okay. And so while we’re on the subject, where can people go to learn about that?

Sheela: We have a website called TheVivaevent.com. We’ve only got 30 tickets left. And then people have missed it so much because of the pandemic. Like we just want to get back in the room. So, we’ve only got a few tickets left.

Alexandra: I will put a link in the show notes to that. And maybe, people can snatch up the last few tickets. So, we’re just about out of time.

I want to ask you if there’s anything you’d like to share that we haven’t touched on today?Sheela: Well, first of all, just to say, Joe Bailey, I think you’ve had him, you’re going to have him on one of your podcasts. Joe Bailey is one of our speakers at Viva and just before the Viva event at the end of October, I’ve organized for him to run a five-day retreat. It’s called Uncovering the Extraordinary Coach Within; it’s a five-day coaching course retreat.

I’m really excited about that. So that’s one thing. But the other, so I think the main thing. Well, it probably ties in it sounds like I’m promoting all my wins. But Jack Pransky has been such a huge advocate and mentor in my life. And he introduced me to deep listening, and I just feel that deep listening is so it’s underrated.

I think it’s totally underrated and not just as a coach or a helper practitioner but just in general in our life generally that we were not listening to each other. Is such a there’s so much value in really giving people space to be heard, with no judgment. is nothing on our minds. That’s what deep listening, to me, means that we’re listening and not taking notice of the noise in our heads.

But really just taking in what’s happening in the space that’s created between us and listening for what wants to be heard, versus what we think wants to be heard, right, really wants to be heard., and I’m a huge advocate for that. I really am.

So got a retreat in a couple of weeks, actually, on the 20th, to the 22nd of May, Jack and I are going to be teaching the three principles, which is called is called Perfecting Deep Listening.

Now, Jack wanted the perfecting piece in there. I’m just like, okay, Jack, let’s see how we get on with the perfecting name. There’s only one place left on that, and the power of it is it’s transformational. Absolutely transformational, where people can just sit back. It’s like people sit back and relax and just be with you.

They have their transformation in them. It’s so healing in itself, just that on its own. I could talk for ages, which I probably will be sharing quite a bit at the retreat. So wanted to say the power, of deep listening. The point that Jack in my book, the first chapter is Jack, and he shares quite a bit about deep listening. And actually, people go to my website, which you probably were going to ask me anyway.

Alexandra: Yes.

Sheela: SheelaMasand.com. You can actually sign up there for the first chapter for free. So you could get Jack’s chapter for free if you just go to my website.

Alexandra: Right. Well, that’s a fantastic segue, and I’ll put links in the show notes to that as well. And the Viva retreat and stuff. Sorry, event.

Okay, great. Well, Sheela, this has been so lovely. Thank you so much for talking to me today.

Sheela: You’re very welcome. It’s been a pleasure to hang out. Thank you.

Alexandra: Take care. Bye.

Featured image photo by Daiga Ellaby on Unsplash

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Is happiness something we need to create in our lives? Or does it occur naturally? And does searching for it actually get it the way of experiencing it?

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Show Notes

• A status update on my low mood (‘depression light’)
• Experiencing the inside-out nature of life due to a challenging situation
• Letting wisdom lead the way out of difficulty
• How our feelings, even scary ones, pass through us and move on
• Why happiness is not something we need to chase or create

Transcript of episodeHello explorers and welcome to Q&A Episode number 14 of Unbroken podcast. I’m your host Alexandra Amor.

I’m here today to talk about happiness. The first thing I want to do actually is do a couple of follow ups quickly on a couple of previous episodes.

A couple of q&a episodes ago, I talked about the low mood that I was in. And the experiences that I’ve had in the past with low moods being a precursor to some sort of shift or insight or transformation, that kind of thing.

My low mood is still around, I can definitely feel it. I’ve been a little bit distracted by some life things that have been going on. But today, I’m very settled, and I can definitely tell it’s still there. In fact, I’m recording this episode on the day that it’s supposed to go out on, the Monday. And that’s really unlike me. I tend to do things in advance, but it was a bit of…I don’t want to say a chore. But it was a bit of an effort to get myself into the chair today and record this episode. To me, that’s an indicator that my mood is low.

I’ve been describing it to myself as ‘depression light’. On the scale of depression with 10 being the worst, it’s really definitely very low on that scale, like a one or a two. But I do notice it. So like I said in the previous episode, I’ll just carry on and take everything as it comes.

As ever, with these situations, it changes. I was planting flowers on the weekend, it’s spring here now. And I went to the garden center, got some flowers came home, put them all on their little pots, so that I could put them out on my balcony. And, for example, during that experience, I was really content and really happy and distracted, I think, from my low mood. So I just wanted to point that out as well. We’re having a very changeable experience, which is something I’m going to talk about in just a second as well related to happiness.

Then the second thing I wanted to follow up on was I mentioned that there’s this uncertainty going on with my living situation. And what’s been really interesting to note is that though it can be really scary I can really see my experience coming from the inside out. Sometimes I’m worried about what might happen in the future. Sometimes it’s not on my mind at all, and I’m very content or peaceful or just not thinking about it. And to me, that just points to the nature of our experience and how we think that our circumstances is our what create our experience of life.

When we take a moment to just observe our own lives, and what’s going on with ourselves – and I encourage you to do this for yourself, just test it, try it out, see what you notice – that I really noticed that, that this, what would I say difficult maybe or challenging situation with housing is, like I say, it’s not on my mind all the time. If my experience was outside in, then I would be bothered by that all the time, because it’s still unresolved.

It’s been over a month this has been going on. And there still aren’t any clear answers, and I don’t know what the future holds. And yet, at some moments, I’m just perfectly at peace with the whole thing.

I will say to that I was writing in my journal on the weekend and one of the things I said that I would like to do is to really ask that my mind takes a step back from this situation.

What I mean by that, is that my normal modus operandi would be to really use my brain and figure out solutions and really get in there start calling people start making plans. And not that there’s anything wrong with that at any given time. But where I felt my wisdom in this moment was guiding me for lack of a better word was to really take a step back and just see what the universe comes up with.

The universe is a lot smarter than me. That goes without saying. And so I’m almost posing it like a challenge to myself, how peaceful and calm and quiet can I be? And how little can I interfere with whatever wants to unfold? How much can I listen to my wisdom? And go where it shows me might be the next best step to take. Following that, rather than following my mind, which tends to be quite fearful and nervous and wants everything to be squared away, and under control, and all that kind of stuff. So that’s what I’m trying to do.

And here’s what’s interesting. So on the weekend, as I was planting my flowers, someone approached me about the housing situation and suggested a possible solution. I hadn’t done anything. I didn’t look for answers at all, I was just out there, working on my deck. And this couple came up, and then we started chatting, and they provided a potential solution.

That to me was really interesting because, like I say, I had stayed out of the way as much as possible. And then this thing came up with this couple. I still don’t know what’s going to happen. Or if that’s what they suggested was even an answer. That’s going to be a good one for me. But I’m loving just letting it unfold.

Even now actually, I do feel anxious about it sometimes. I noticed now talking about it has made me feel a little anxious, my brain is starting to go Oh, and thought about this in a while. And now you’re bringing it up and what’s going to happen? So that’s really funny and really interesting. Anyway, so I’ll keep you posted on that. But yeah, like I say, the the big lesson, that’s not quite the right word, the big stretch goal for me, it’s just this idea of staying out of the way and seeing what happens, seeing what the universe can organize. And yeah, so we’ll just see what happens.

The title of this q&a episode is that searching for happiness is BS. And that’s kind of a click bait-y title. But here’s why I titled that. I was listening to a podcast last week sometime and the guest was, and this was not a three principles, or inside out podcast, it was just an interview show. And the guest was a woman who has written lots of books about happiness. And she’s quite famous for this subject. She’s written more than one book about happiness and how to find it, and how to have more of it in our lives and that kind of thing.

I haven’t read the book, but I went and looked at the description on a bookstore. And she talks about how she had this sort of dark moment in her life. And she realized that time was passing. She wanted to make sure she was making the most of her time in the world, which is a great thing to think and do. And so she spent a year studying the scientific research about happiness, and how to create more of it in our lives.

She found that novelty and change are what scientists figure creates more happiness in our lives. That money does help, it can help to buy us happiness in certain situations. And that outer order creates inner calm.

So I was thinking about that and thinking about how logical and sensible that approach is until we see that life works in an inside out way. And when we see that, and what I really wanted to point out today, is that what ends up happening when we’re chasing something like happiness or searching for it or trying to create more of it is that paradoxically, I think what it can do is creating us a hypervigilance for when we’re not happy.

The thing about a feeling like happiness is that it’s part of the human experience. And it comes to life like all the other feelings and human experiences that we have. So it comes to life, the same way that joy does, or sadness, or loneliness, or contentment, or anger, all of these things are part of the river of life that is flowing through us and coming to life, in every moment, moment to moment.

When we don’t see that, when we believe innocently that life is outside-in and that we need to create certain conditions, in order to create that feeling that we’re wanting to have more of happiness, joy, whatever it is, like I said, I, in my experience, what that does is in the past, if I’ve tried things like that, what it’s made me do is be hyper vigilant. I become hyper vigilant about that feeling that I’m trying to create. And then I just become completely focused on the fact that when it’s not happening. And for me, that could create things like a real feeling of failure.

This is what the self help industry, the effect that it really had on me, when I was looking at things from an outside-in way, was that when I couldn’t create that, say, for example, if I had read this lady’s book, when I couldn’t create greater happiness in my life, when all I started noticing was the days and the moments when I was unhappy. Or when it came to overeating, when all I could notice was my cravings, because I was trying to control and curb and eliminate those. That’s what caused me greater suffering.

So that’s the point I wanted to bring up today: once we begin to notice that the inside-out nature of life and the way that it’s flowing through us, we don’t need to be attached to the feelings of unhappiness that we have. And they will just float by.

One feeling that very often makes me uncomfortable is loneliness. That’s a feeling that I noticed when I start to feel it I almost get I almost get scared of the feeling. It’s like, oh, no, this is happening. And what if it swamps me? What if it overwhelms me, and I can’t deal with it? It feels like that. A fear of being swamped, being completely taken over, and almost destroyed by that feeling.

In the last few years, after a minute or two, I realized this is just a feeling, and the attendant thoughts that come with it. I don’t need to brace myself against it, or talk myself out of it, or try to make it go away. I don’t need to make a list of 10 reasons why I’m not lonely.

And sure enough, it passes by. It’s not something that is going to stay permanently with me because nothing does. Life is coming to life on a moment to moment basis. And as I’ve said before, the way to make an uncomfortable feeling sticky is to resist it. And knowing that in any given moment, another experience is going to come to life very shortly, gives us a lot of freedom and allowance for the experience of life that is that is coming through us that is coming to life.

So, I just wanted to point that out because this lovely woman, this author that I was listening to on the podcast – I could tell her intention is of course to help people to create more happiness in their lives. And it was just that what I see is that when we allow whatever wants to come to life within us, then there’s less suffering.

Really, that’s what it boils down to. That’s all it is.

We suffer when we resist our experiences, and when we try to control what’s happening with the feelings that are coming alive within us. I hope that’s helpful for you and that you’ve found it somewhat uplifting today. I will be back next Monday with another q&a episode.

Remember, if you want to submit a question, please do that. You can go to AlexandraAmor.com/question, and I’ll be happy to answer your question.

Take care and I’ll talk to you next week. Bye.

Featured image photo by Jason Leung on Unsplash

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Joe Bailey knows that life can be difficult. In addition to life’s ‘regular’ challenges, he’s had personal experiences with illness, including Lyme disease (more than once), and the effects of mould.

He also knows that all human beings are in possession of an innate and trustworthy ‘compass of wisdom’. Our thoughts can be noisy but our innate wisdom and resilience is the eye at the centre of life’s hurricane that can guide us and smooth out the bumps on the sometimes rough road of life.

Joseph Bailey, M.A., L.P. is a licensed psychologist, an author, seminar leader, consultant to organizations, public speaker, and psychotherapist.

His work has included co-founding The Minneapolis Institute of Mental Health, developing programs for health care provider wellness at the University of Minnesota Inner Life of Healers Program and numerous hospitals including North Memorial Hospital, Minneapolis, East Lansing Health System and Mayo Clinic Arizona (The Resilient Physician Program). He has also worked extensively in treatment centers for addictions—Gulf Breeze Recovery, Meridian Systems and Farnum Center, and numerous social service agencies.

Joseph is the author of six books with over a half million copies in print including the best seller, Slowing Down to the Speed of Life with Dr. Richard Carlson and The Serenity Principle.

Learn more about Joe at JoeBaileyAndAssociates.com.

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Show Notes

• Learning from Sydney Banks and his very different approach to human psychology
• On the paradigm shift of the three principles
• Working with everyone from climate scientists to clinicians at the Mayo clinic to those struggling with addiction
• The priceless value of relying on a calm mind
• Finding our own compass of truth

Resources Mentioned in this Episode

• Joe’s book: Thriving in the Eye of the Hurricane
• Interview with Mahima Shrestha about her work in Nepal
• Joe’s book: Fearproof Your Life

Transcript of Interview with Joseph BaileyAlexandra: Joe Bailey, welcome to Unbroken.

Joe: Thank you. What a great title.

Alexandra: Oh, thank you., I was so pleased when I thought of that. So it’s so great to have you here today, Joe.

Why don’t you tell us a little bit about your background and how you got involved with the three principles. Joe: Sure. And thanks for having me. So a little bit of background, I guess, to go way back, I discovered when I was 16 that when I was an exchange student in Guatemala, I had an opportunity. My aunt was a Catholic nun working in Central America with the poor and involved in lots of social justice issues.

I lived there for a summer, and it opened me up to my vocation really, to want to help people, alleviate suffering in the world and being raised Catholic, after high school that I went into seminary, thinking I’d be a priest. I had some amazing experiences for that one year I was in the seminary, got to work with Martin Luther King’s organization, and my prefect, the counselor that for our unit, was one of Martin Luther King’s best friends.

So we got to learn a lot about all of that. And with that was a big influence on my life. But it led to me leaving the seminary after a year and deciding to continue my vocation by helping people. So I became a clinical psychologist and went to grad school and all that. And the more I got into psychology, the more I thought, is this the right fit for me because there is no spirituality in psychology was very agnostic.

I did yoga and meditated and all did all these other things, because I always felt that was part of the whole person was to help people not just with their mind, but their whole essence or spiritual nature. And that wasn’t really to be found in psychology until I met Sydney Banks.

About 10 years later, from the beginning of grad school till I was about 32. I met Syd at the recommendation of Keith Blevins, Dr. Keith Blevins, who was my best friend at grad school. And actually, he urged me to listen to Syd’s tapes over the years. But I was cynical at that point.

There was so many trips going on in psychology that I thought it was just another fad. And I was tired of that. So I just was not very open. Until one day, Syd was going to speak in Miami, at the University of Miami medical school. And Keith invited me, and his wife Elda also said, By the way, my best friend, Michael, she is coming too, and we’d love for you to meet, and I was available.

And so I thought, Okay, well, that’ll be fun. I went to Miami, and that first day I met my wife, Michael. She’s a woman, but she has a man’s name. Because she was born on the feast of St. Michael the archangel, and she was going to be a boy.

I fell in love with her first sight. And four hours later, I met Sydney Banks. Alexandra: What a day!

Joe: It was stars aligned or something. So but when I heard Syd, I had a mixed reaction, part of me is just curious because I’d heard so much about him. But he was unlike any person I’ve ever met. And when he spoke, everything he said was felt absolutely true if my truth meter went yes!

But my brain went ARGH because it went against everything I had been learned. Learning in psychology and family therapy, and all these people that I studied with, was all about going back in the past and healing from past trauma, reliving emotions, and getting in touch with your feelings.

Healing, forgiving, it was a very long, arduous therapeutic process, and my clients would stay in therapy for years. So as a good economic model, you didn’t have to have a lot of people to make a living. But people never really got, well, they just coped better.

But they also started to identify with their labels and their diagnoses and start to think of themselves as an alcoholic, as a person with depression, as a person with anxiety disorder. And so it kept it put a cap on their full transformation or their ability to be free of the past and free of their symptoms.

And what Syd promised was from for me, as a spiritual, psychological person, it was like it transcended the dichotomy between spirituality and psychology. And it showed that the root of the word psychology is psyche, which in Greek means mind, soul, or spirit.

What’s revolutionary about Syd’s experience and his psychology, the three principles psychology is for me the hope that psychology becomes can become a true science that includes this primary dimension of human beings that is essentially spiritual or formless, which is what Mind is.

And the principles are formless energy that we’re all part of. So my work, a lot of my work, was involved in prevention. I was the director of prevention for the state of Texas for addiction when I was 26, and I had no idea what it was doing and had no idea how to prevent alcoholism. But I got paid to do it. So I did it.

And a lot of my work accidentally got me into the alcoholism and addiction field, just because I was assigned to it when I worked at the mental health center, and nobody knew about alcoholism, including me, but I was assigned to be the head of the alcoholism and drug addiction program.

So when I heard this said, I realized that this would transform the addiction field and the field of psychotherapy because it really helped people not just cope or identify with their habits but to identify with their innate resilience or their innate health and to let that blossom and grow and evolve through a deepening understanding of the principles of how we create our day to day, moment by moment experience, through mind, thought and consciousness.

So that was the beginning of, to me, my real career began when I met Syd Banks because I finally had a way to actually help people.

But at first, I didn’t know how to do it because there’s no techniques. Syd didn’t know about my world that much. Although he had this incredible realization. And so when I went back to my practice after hearing him, I was clueless.

How the heck do you do this? But I would just share a little bit about my own realizations I was having just as a human being. And I just toss those out and the clients would go, wow, why didn’t you tell me that before? That is so helpful.

And I say, what did I say? So I just reached my way along in the beginning because I didn’t have a language for it. I didn’t know what I was doing. I was just flying by the seat of my pants.

And yet my clients were not only getting over their symptoms, they were achieving mental health and true love in their marriages. They were healing from the past that was and so pretty soon, my clients quit coming because they got better, which was not a good economic model.

But it was great as far as satisfaction as a therapist, but then they would tell their friends, and pretty soon my practice grew so much I had to train other people in the principles.

Chris Heath and I started what was called the Minneapolis Institute of Mental Health, which was a licensed treatment center for outpatient mental health and addictions.

Chris left and went to Hawaii about halfway through that. But I ran that for about 10 years; we treated 1000s and 1000s of patients, helped so many people, and did research. And it was an amazing experience. But it created a real ripple effect in the community because everybody wanted to go to that clinic, a lot of people, and it was a big threat.

That’s what happens when you have a paradigm shift that threatens the status quo. Anyway, that’s the backdrop, or how I met Syd and began my journey with the principles.

Alexandra: It’s such a fascinating story. I love hearing about the dovetailing of your own interest in spirituality and your desire to help people and how those two things came together when you met Syd.

It always surprises me that this understanding isn’t more widely known, especially in the world of psychology.

Do you think it’s that element of spirituality, that affects the growth somehow?Joe: I don’t know really why, to be honest. I would have thought by now, although, in some ways, it has exploded all over the world. It’s all of Syd’s books and tapes. And there are practitioners and communities of three principals in Iceland, and Italy, and France, and Spain, and Germany and the United States and, the United Kingdom, and Ireland and Asian countries, that’s all over my books are in 68 countries and 26 languages.

So I know it’s getting out there, but the field of psychology, it’s all evidence-based treatment modalities. But the field is still growing into recognizing thought as the primary focus of therapy in the cognitive revolution in psychology, cognitive behavioral therapy, CBT, Dialectical Behavioral Therapy, they both and then mindfulness based treatment, and modalities are really exploding.

Psychology is evolving because this is what people want. They want a deeper, more spiritual psychology. And so they’re combining Eastern thought mindfulness practices. But they’ve done a lot of good research on that. And so they show the results. We, in the three principles, haven’t done such a great job of documenting this in terms of getting into recognized journals and all that.

Some of that’s happened but not enough to create a critical mass. So that’s one part of it.

The other part of it is that it’s a threat to a lot of people who have I created their practices from a school of thought, and then to introduce something that makes that obsolete is a threat to their identity and to their practice.

Anytime you find anything really true that comes into the world, it’s always thought, that’s how it’s really true because it’s really threatening to the way we collectively perceive reality.

In this isn’t an intellectual model; it’s not something you can figure out analytically. It’s something that has to impact you. And when you change from within. You see the world differently. It’s not a technique you do.

Current psychology is all based on techniques and doings. This [the three principles] is based on raising the level of consciousness through insight and understanding of how we’re creating a reality moment by moment.

In the addiction field, I’ve done a lot of work with treatment centers, training their whole staff. I’ve done a lot of work in healthcare. I’ve worked with many hospital systems. The University of Minnesota helped create a program called The Inner Life of Healers. We worked with physicians and nurses, and allied health professionals to teach burnout prevention and resilience.

I also worked for eight years at Mayo Clinic, training their physicians and leaders in the principles because it lowered burnout dramatically. So it’s gone out more in the business world, the healthcare world. Psychology is like the holdout.

It’s threatening to the existing paradigm that is based primarily on biology and the past instead of a spiritual essence that’s already mentally healthy. It’s already resilient. And so it puts you out of business in a way, but not really, with change. But anyway, that’s probably a long answer to a short question.

Alexandra: No, I’m really fascinated by this subject. So, thank you for sharing that with us. Speaking of resilience, your most recent book is called Thriving in the Eye of the Hurricane. I’d love to talk about that a little bit today.

Tell us about that metaphor, the eye of the hurricane, and why it matters.Joe: Well, I don’t know if you have hurricanes in Canada.

Alexandra: Not on Vancouver Island.

Joe: In the United States, we have a lot of hurricanes, especially on the coast of Florida and the Panhandle, in that area. And so hurricanes are often on the news. But they’re a very powerful storm. The winds on the outside of a hurricane are like 274 miles per hour. So when a hurricane comes in, it devastates and decimates everything.

Nothing can withstand that. But it also is torrential rain. And it’s just a very destructive force. But climatologists who study hurricanes fly airplanes in the middle of hurricanes in what’s called the eye because once you break through the wall of the hurricane, it’s totally quiet, in the center of it. And they call it the eye of the hurricane.

Birds fly around in there, and most of the hurricane is like 110 miles across in the eye. It’s just the outer perimeter that’s destructive. It’s like the ego versus the true self. The ego is what creates all the damage.

Our thoughts and our wisdom, which is at the eye, is what is resilient, which is where we get insight into healing transformation. So to me, it was a perfect metaphor for not only climate change, because I talk a lot to climate scientists, and about this, because they get burned out a lot too, and climate activists, but it’s the perfect metaphor, because in the eye of us as human beings, our innate mental health is this source of ability to bounce back from whatever. And ability to think creatively under pressure in a business.

I’ve done a lot of work with police and first responders, military, people who are really on the front lines, how to stay calm in that crisis, in that moment where your life is truly threatened. And oftentimes, in the news, you’ll see interviews with people who were in a hurricane or a tornado, or a flood or a bombing, or in nowadays have a massive gun shooting, with AK 40 sevens and in our crazy country we have here and how someone will become a hero in the middle of that and just respond and save lots of lives.

And afterward, they’re interviewed by the press, and they say, Well, how did you do that? They just go. I don’t know. I didn’t think about it. I just did it.

I went into that burning building, and I saved that child, or I covered the body of that person that I didn’t want to get killed. They shot me instead. And I survived. Or people who did like the guy who landed the airplane. On the Hudson River. I can’t remember his name right now. They made a movie about him. Sully. And they’ve made this movie about him because he was such a hero.

When you interview him, he says, I just did what anybody would do. I wasn’t anything special, I just seemed like the right thing to do. And that’s when you’re not bogged down by fear and insecurity. Those thoughts, your natural resilience or wisdom, respond appropriately to falling in love like I did with my wife or to solving a crisis.

It that’s life and death, or when I work with healthcare professionals, how to be in the midst of the emergency room or a surgical procedure, but be light-hearted and loving and caring that loose feeling. You’re so present. And you’re so responsive. And with all of the training you’ve had, you get just whatever you need from that training library at that moment to use you.

I just thought about an article that I read about this. Let me look at that. That’s the solution. I found leaders or healthcare professionals say, I’m in the same stressful situation. But I’m more responsive to the needs of the patient. I’m a better listener. I’m the calm influence in the room, rather than getting frenetic and scared like everybody else, even professionals.

When I’m operating from that eye, that resilience, I’m a calming influence. There’s a story that I love in my book from Mahima Shrestha. She actually just did a thing for one of Syd’s books or talks on forgiveness. She was in charge of emergency preparedness for the country of Nepal.

And so she tells the story, and I’ll just read it here because it’s really powerful. And you can also watch this on a video on my website because I did a podcast with a lot of people who were interviewed toward thriving in the eye of the hurricane.

Their stories that are in this book are also their stories on the podcast. So anyway, so she’s tells the story.

“There was this destruction and devastation all around us after the first earthquake struck. 9000 people were killed, and 1000s more were injured or left homeless. We were overwhelmed with grief and fear.

As we watched this beautiful country pounded into a pile of rubble. My family and I were huddled together in my home. With each tremor, we were filled with terror, anticipating the next earthquake, between tremors.

We would wait in fear and imagine what might happen next. In contrast, my three year old niece would go back to playing between tremors and seem to be enjoying having her whole family together in one place.

Her laughter and play relieved and distracted us momentarily from our own panicky feelings. At one point, she looked at all of us and proclaimed, it’s over. Can’t you see it’s over? Her childlike innocence and lightheartedness in the face of our stress hit me like another earthquake, a psychological one. She was being resilient in the face of danger, while the rest of us were being feeling traumatized.

The dormant thought that had been resting in my head for many months suddenly burst forth.

We are always living in the feeling of our thinking each moment. By witnessing my niece’s resilience in the face of real danger, I realized what the three principal psychology was all about.

With this insight, my mind and my body became calm. From that moment on, my stress diminished, in my resilience returned. I realized that the earthquake and the tremors didn’t create my stress and fears.

My thinking did. Since that profound moment, I felt more energy and more clarity of thinking, and I’m better able to respond to real and present dangers. Every did everybody did what they could to bring solace and help restore resilience in their communities in the weeks following the earthquake.

I hosted webinars with international experts in the crisis response field and invited trainers from the UK to introduce these three principles in Nepal to help earthquake survivors source their own resilience more effectively.

Many organizations, groups, and institutions, such as schools, chambers of commerce, insurance companies, community hospitals, young women’s leadership programs, and more, have since benefited from this teaching.”

She also won an international award for Women of the Year for her work with the sex trade between China and India. She’s just an amazing human being. But she really is primarily a three principles teacher now.

Alexandra: Wow. That’s beautiful. Thanks for sharing that with us. I’ll put links in the show notes to your website, where the interviews are, and also to your book as well. So people can find those if they’re looking.

One of the things I love about the eye of the hurricane metaphor is that the outer wall of all are stirred up thinking and can be so distracting that sometimes it’s hard to get into the center. And I said to you, in some of the notes that I sent you, that it felt has felt to me like understanding this has been a really distinct two-stage process.

1. The first stage is even knowing that the eye, the quiet eye is there.
2. And then the second part has been coming to trust it, that I can rely on it, no matter what.

I loved your book for just its emphasis on that, on the eye, the quiet resilience center of all of us. It’s been really great to learn that.Joe: For me, too, for sure. Because I still get caught up in my thinking on a regular basis. We all are, Syd did, I don’t know anybody who didn’t get caught up in their thinking. But when you have an understanding of where feelings come from, you can’t have a feeling without thought.

Connecting to your consciousness to create that feeling, that perception in the moment. So if you’re panicking, it looks like you’re in a really dangerous place, and you can’t see a solution. If you recognize that in the moment like you’re a firefighter, or a police officer, or a politician or teacher, whatever your role is new, you catch it because it feels this discomfort.

And you see that it’s not what I’m thinking about. But how I’m thinking about what I’m thinking about. That’s creating my experience. So it’d be you see that it’s coming from the inside out your human experience, rather than outside in, in the proof is that if you look at people watching a movie, being in a real crisis, all of them respond in a totally different way on a bell curve, something completely traumatized, immobilized to people who hardly even notice they just go right to work.

They don’t even think about themselves to somewhere in between them. So depending on your thinking in the moment.

You’re going to have a different emotion and a different experience. But with an understanding of the principles. You’re able to tap into that eye, that resilience because your feelings become a barometer, like a barometer for the storms. We have a cabin in Canada, and it’s in a really remote area. So we have a barometer because there’s no weather forecasts.

We can see when that barometer drops; we’re gonna get a storm long before you see the clouds, the barometer is dropping. Looks like there’s no problem coming. But when you see that barometer dropping, prepare, get your raincoat, and your umbrella, and come on inside. And so when your feelings of anger or anxiety come up, it triggers your awareness that you’re creating a thought, perceptual experience from the inSyde.

And when you’re attuned to that, it helps you get perspective maybe to value a calm mind, rather than an overreacting, fearful mind. The more you value a calm mind, you begin to see in that eye, you get a lot of insights that you wouldn’t have otherwise, you are able to have more sticktoitiveness, which is another term for resilience,

You’re able to have more energy, you sleep better, you’re more responsive, you have more empathy, you have more connection to others. So there are many beautiful human traits that are built into this innate resilience or innate mental health that you can witness in any child.

Little children who haven’t yet learned to be fearful, or to be self-conscious, or to be resentful. They get over things very quickly. If they are upset, they’re naturally extremely curious. And their learning curve is like this. Whereas when you become fearful, you’re learning curve becomes like this.

So young children are little sponges; they learned so much in the first few years of life because they haven’t yet learned to be afraid. They haven’t yet learned to worry; they haven’t yet learned to hold a grudge or be prejudiced, or judge. Those are all learned things that create a feeling.

And when you use that feeling as a barrage, better, it helps you, oh, don’t go there, Joe. Because I can still do that. This last year of our lives, my wife and I would both 75 and suddenly, having things happen with our bodies and our brains it didn’t happen before. We’re starting to experience aging. And some pretty, fairly serious health issues happened this year for us. All due to the fact that our house had mould, and we didn’t know. It was insidious. You can’t see it.

But our doctor suspected it and had us tested for a variety of toxic chemicals. Because I lost a lot of weight. I didn’t have any energy, and my brain was foggy. And so I took these micro toxin tests, as did my wife. And actually, we were on our way to British Columbia when we got the news, the mould levels in your body are 500 points over normal.

You can never live in that house again. You must move out, and you will not survive if you go back in that house. We have to demolish our home and rebuild. We’re in our early semi-retirement phase. And all of sudden, there goes about a third of our net worth right down the drain, and the insurance covers none of it.

So it was you could imagine, economically and physically, a huge disruption in our life. And it’s been a year of that. It’s just been like one thing.

My wife wrote this poem last week. Can I read it? Alexandra: Yes, please do.

Joe: It’s tongue in cheek.

I’ve had so much bad luck, it’s good luck.

What is bad luck, but an opportunity to sharpen our skills. The skills we were born with the talents we didn’t know we have. What is bad luck but the uncomfortable handle on the door to success covered with mold tarnished but recognizable by the finest jeweler?

The minor of gold reaches past the disgusting to discover what’s inside. The door opens, and the day is saved. Sight from within penetrates the surface of all disasters. It uncovers the wholeness of salvation that exists inside this room of peace—the architect of design lives in this hidden world, the eye.

Wherein lies all resource to create from the universe of knowing. Answering any questions needed to build a foundation from the only existence that is true, universal love.

By opening the door of bad luck and finding peace inside, we move aside the barriers we’ve created and rebuild our life from the inside. The lens of destruction is no longer feared when we rest in the state of knowing that the power of life bends to bring forth a new universe every hour of every day; residing an eternal knowing can be misunderstood and mixed with fear of seeing the truth. We have the freedom to understand that the comfort of not knowing is a state of recognition of what is to become known.

A recognition of this powerful ingredient called Love transforms what is not known into the treasure of assurance that we are here to create and be known as the power that arises from within, to change our world and the world with a passion of persistence that never ends.

Rely on this eternal force to give you the passion, the love, and the knowing to resurrect from within the heart and the soul of you. The Universal Consciousness leave behind the limited thoughts, releasing their unformed energy to float free, disengaging from misunderstanding. I will not falter in my one desire to be one in the peace of universal creation.

Alexandra: Oh, that’s beautiful.

Joe: Isn’t that amazing? My wife’s passion comes through her art. She’s an artist. They just come out of her all whole like this. She didn’t have to edit. It’s just amazing. But we all have that in a different form.

What you’re doing in your podcasts is a form of it. I’m sure there are many others. I never thought I would ever be a writer. I was told not to go to college because of my poor language skills.

And Syd said oh, you’re going to write books, and they’ll be all over the world. You’ll teach at universities, and I said, “Me? You’ve got the wrong guy.”

Alexandra: Wow. That’s amazing. Well, thank you for sharing that poem with us. That’s beautiful.

I wrote down a couple of things. The ‘architect of the design’ was one of the phrases that I loved from there.

And also the idea that there’s a new universe, she said, in every hour, but it’s like, in every moment, so lovely.

We’re just about coming up to running out of time. But I wanted to come back to the phrase that you use in the book, the compass of wisdom.

And this touches on everything we’ve talked about so far today.

If you were to recommend for listeners how they could find this still point, this eye at the center of their hurricane, how would you recommend they do that?Joe: Well, I think the first step is a leap of faith. God doesn’t create any bad things. There’s no mistakes in creation. And we’re no exception. We have this human potential, this essence that is wise. So considering the possibility that that’s true even for you.

Even though you might have doubted that or thought you weren’t smart enough, or that you were damaged goods, or that you were too insecure. It doesn’t matter how long you’ve been a chronic alcoholic or suffered from mental illness or had a horrible marriage or anything.

Every human being that’s still alive has the possibility of transformation and change through insight. And so, first of all, it’s just, for me in the beginning, it was really just hearing that, and it felt true.

But I didn’t think it was true for me. I realized it, but it sounded true. And then I started getting eyes for it. So when I would have a thought come into my mind, that was like one of those head-shakers when you go, what does that mean?

That sounds really true, but I don’t understand it. That I would listen to that more, and sometimes that would be from just writing. When I was troubled or this still, small voice some would call it, and if you look back on your life in hindsight, you can see something told me not to do this, but I did it anyway.

I should have listened to myself. I wasn’t listening. So in hindsight, you can see I can’t believe that I took that risk to ask her out. It was unlike me. But something was so compelling to me. I couldn’t help but do it. That was the compass. Something told me to go to hear Syd Banks, against all of my misgivings.

It was like a magnet that pull me like the magnet and a compass. And so, for me, I could look back on my life. And I can see that that still, small voice was always guiding me even when I ignored it. And I could see, I knew that was the wrong decision. But I did it anyway.

And so when you start to have experiences of insight, and this wisdom, you’ll have flashbacks and see how it was always there. And that’ll give you more confidence to trust it. Because when you’re going into the unknown, the future, you don’t know what’s going to happen. But if you get quiet, and you listen, is this the right thing for me to take this job, or to call that person or, and if you listen inside, you’ll start to recognize that feeling of truth.

And the compass of truth has a feeling built into it. It’s called a knowing you got like a knowing without knowing why. Just knowing. And the book I’m writing. Now, I didn’t think I’d ever write another book. I was like, Okay, I’m done. This is the last one. But then I had a dream a few months ago, I had this whole book come to me in the dream.

I woke up and I thought, Oh, my God, what was that? It was like a whole life review. I’m dying. I thought, what’s going on here? But it was like my whole life path before me. And I realized how that compass had been guiding me all along.

The book I’m writing, which I haven’t started writing yet, but it’s called up My Magic Carpet Ride. Because it’s like a magic carpet. There’s no steering wheel on it. You just go wherever it takes you. And that’s the compass. The more I understood what Syd was saying about the principles, the more I didn’t have to steer; it’s like a kid’s go-cart.

You think it’s connected to the wheels, but it’s really your imagination that you’re turning the car. It’s just an illusion. But when you trust the carpet, opportunities open up for you that you never would have dreamt up.

I never thought I’d ever write a book. I never thought I teach at universities or travel around the world like I do. This just one story after another story; I got healed from major illnesses, through the power of the mind, with Lyme disease, and knock on wood with the mold coming out of my system now, so it’s just, it’s always there for us.

And the more we understand, through insight, the principles, the more trust we have in faith and hope as we go through life that life is guiding us. This divine intelligence is guiding us each step of the way. Whether we know it or not

Alexandra: I love that magic carpet analogy. That’s such a great one.Joe: I couldn’t remember anything of my dream. So then my wife and I, we went off skiing this winter. And we’re there in a Best Western hotel in the middle of Nebraska somewhere. I woke up in the middle of the night and I’d had the same dream again.

With another download. I thought I could write this down. I’ll never remember this. And then the next thought was, you’ll remember as you write, yes. So that’s the compass, you don’t have to try to write things down. Remember, your wisdom will always be there. Your compass will always be with you. guide you into the unknown

That’s what we need in these dark times. Just last night, I was watching TV. And there was a story about how there’s so many mass killings in our country, there’s more than one per day now in America, with ak47s. It’s just horrible violence happening.

So now what’s happening? They showed this basketball game where someone thought they heard a gun go off, and it spread like panic. And everybody ran out of the room.

There was no, no gunman, nothing, but just the thought of it could happen here. So people are living in this fear. And if people could understand that, their common sense and wisdom is always going to be with them to protect them and to know the right thing to do. And in the meantime, enjoy your life. Be with your friends. Don’t live in fear.

It’s all self-generated. You don’t have to do that. And that’s the other book I wrote was Fear Proof Your Life after 9/11. Because we become so addicted to fear. As a culture, we still are. The Canadians, not so much. I don’t think I don’t know.

Alexandra: Hard to say depends who you talk to you, I guess.

Joe: I guess it’s individual by individual, that’s right.

Alexandra: We’ve covered a lot of ground here, Joe; it’s been just great.

Is there anything we haven’t talked about that you’d like to share before we wrap up?Joe: Let me see. Maybe one more story. I could tell a story about healing physically, myself, or a story of a nurse and how this helped her. Or Mavis, who worked with gangs.

Alexandra: I’d love to hear the story about healing yourself.

Joe: Me?

Alexandra: Yep.

Joe: This happened. The summer of 2017. I was at my cabin in Canada. And I started experiencing extreme back pain. Sweating, just excruciating pain in my body. And I’d never experienced that before.

I thought do I have cancer? What’s going on with me? I was all alone, I was writing another book in the middle of nowhere, and I’m struck with this, and it just wouldn’t go away. And day after day, I was just in this excruciating pain.

It felt like Lyme disease because I’d had it before, but I didn’t see any bite. And then my wife says, Well, look in the mirror. Do you see anything behind you? And I looked in the mirror, and I could see there’s a big red target on the back of my knee. I got Lyme disease again.

So I came home, and I went to took that doxycycline with the doctors recommended, but I had all this mental fog and sleeping difficulties. And all this, I went to a specialist was referred to a specialist that worked with Lyme. And the first thing she said to me 90% of this is in the mind. Your mind is so important in your healing.

I said that I’m a psychologist so I agree. Totally. She said, here’s supplements you should take and avoid being around areas where you can get a tick, always check yourself or a bar, don’t get it again, and take the supplements, etc. And I never really got well; I just felt like I was always sick. Low energy instead of high energy. Not as clear mentally.

So when my wife was going to Malaysia to study Kung Fu with a grandmaster, she said there was going to be a course on Qigong healing there. You should come along, and I said, Sure. I’d love to travel. I’ll go. So we went there.

There was a guy there who was a gifted Qigong healer from Switzerland. I thought maybe I’d get an appointment with him and maybe he can help me. So Michael said that during her kung fu course she said, Andrew is going to be with us. Once you join us for lunch, you can ask him so I went to Chinatown, where they were going; I caught up with them.

And I saw Andrew, and she said, why don’t you ask Andrew? So I was hoping to meet Andrew, who was a teacher of Qigong and a well-known healer from Switzerland. As luck would have it, I caught up with Andrew on the busy streets of Penang.

Could I set up a time to meet with you for a session regarding my illness? I said, let’s just do it right now. I said now, here on the busy streets of Chinatown, why not? I reluctantly agree. So what’s the problem?

Well, last summer, I got Lyme disease. Stop right there. He said, Don’t ever say you have Lyme disease if you ever want to be completely well.

Puzzled, I tried to correct him and telling him, but I have the symptoms long before I realized I had Lyme with absolute sense of knowing he repeated what he said earlier, I understand the power of mind in healing and its relationship to heal illness and mental health. I said I’ve written several books on this topic. I believe in what you’re saying. No, you don’t you just think you do.

Every time you say I’m sick with Lyme, you send all the beliefs and thoughts that you have about the illness to every cell of your body. Your body and mind are one. Well, I know that, but you don’t believe me? Or no, he says, do you believe me? Yes, I do. I think I do.

No, you don’t. I can see it in your face. If you don’t change your thinking about your illness, your body’s natural capacity to heal will be interrupted by your sending signals of being sick to the by. You don’t believe me except intellectually.

I knew he was right. And I felt humbled by his result and certainty. He wasn’t lead going to lead me off the hook at that moment. I saw it for the first time.

He smiled. Now you believe me.

How do you know that? I can see it in your face.

I felt something live from my whole body. All the invisible worry and thinking were falling away. My mind squirrels as it had when I first met Syd Banks; I knew Andrew was right. But my brain kept trying to understand what it just happened. So should we set up a session, I said?

Why? he said. We just had it.

That was it. But we only talked for a few minutes at most. You’re on the busy, noisy streets of Chinatown. You got it. You’re done. Well, can I pay your fee? That’s okay. Don’t worry about it.

The next day I woke up early, feeling totally awake. In a way, I hadn’t in many months, perhaps years. My head was clear, and I had all this energy. I decided to go down to the gym and work out and then go for a swim. I doubled my weight from the previous day with ease.

I went for a swim and felt like I could swim forever. I didn’t know what had happened. But I was grateful. When I walked into my friend’s apartment, she stared. What happened to you? You look 10 years younger. I told her about my conversation with Andrew the day before.

Blake and I have been so worried about you chill. You had you at an age so much not like before; you’d always seem so youthful for your age. You were our inspiration. Andrew, the healer, had never heard of the principles of mind-thought consciousness, as discovered by Syd Banks. But he obviously had a deep understanding of the mind.

Alexandra: Wow. That’s incredible.

Since then, have you had any symptoms at all? Joe: I’ve not had any symptoms since.

Alexandra: Wow. Thank you for sharing that with us. Well, thank you for your interviews.

Joe: Great to meet you. Alexandra. Lovely to meet you as well.

Alexandra: Why don’t you tell the listeners where they can find out more about you and your work and your books. Joe: So my books are on Amazon. You can order them they’re in Kindle and book form or audio. Some of them are on Audible. This book is on Audible. And then, if you go to my website, JoeBaileyandassociates.com, you can see all the interviews and podcasts of my past podcasts about the book and the people in the book.

Lots of other resources, we have lots of other good three principals, teachers and programs, and other books that have been written about since wonderful discovery of the three principles.

Alexandra: I will put a link to those things as well in the show notes. So thanks again, Joe. It’s just been a delight to chat with you.

Joe: Thank you so much. Take care. Bye

Featured image photo by Anthony Cantin on Unsplash

The post Thriving in Difficult Times with Joseph Bailey appeared first on Alexandra Amor.

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When we have problems and challenges in life, where can we turn for guidance?

What if there was a source of pure, clear wisdom that was 100% reliable and could guide you under any circumstances?

The good news is this source of answers is available and it’s within you.

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Show Notes

• How our minds innocently get involved in problem-solving
• What to do when we feel a lot of fearful thining
• What does wisdom feel like?
• When does wisdom show up?

Resources Mentioned in this Episode

• Tania Elfersy, author of The Wisdom of Menopause and Perimenopause
• Episode 4 of Unbroken with Tania Elfersy

Transcript of episodeHello, explorers, and welcome back to another Q&A episode of Unbroken. I’m your host, Alexandra Amor. Today the question is:

Where can I go for guidance? I love this question so much. And I’m going to use a personal story that’s going on for me this week to illustrate what I mean by this. And then I’m going to move into a brilliant thing that I heard from my friend Tania Elfersy the other day that really ties in well.

So the personal story is that I live in a condo, apartment, and I’m renting it. And additionally, I live in a town where it’s really hard to find housing. Now I lucked out when I moved here, five and a half years ago, in that this was the first apartment I looked at, it was perfect. For me, it was the perfect price, perfect size, the building is nicely maintained, all that stuff. So I was thrilled, beyond thrilled and snatched it up right away.

Housing in this town where I live is really, really an issue to the point that the vacancy rate is well below zero, I would say. People live in camper vans, in the summer there’s lots of tourists around, and many of them live on the back roads, in vans, but in addition to that, there’s people who actually live here and work here and have jobs who do the same thing, because there just aren’t a lot of places to rent.

There’s a variety of reasons for that and I won’t get into it all, because that’s not the point of this podcast. So you’ll just have to believe me, it’s tough to find a place to rent, when you live in the little town where I live.

It came about recently that my landlord was thinking of selling the condo that I’m renting. She had a buyer lined up. In the last week or so I guess I would say there’s been a lot of upheaval around here with inspectors coming and going and that kind of thing.

When I first heard the news that the place might be sold, I was really really quite stirred up and anxious. And not the least of which, because we’re coming into the high season. I’m recording this in early May. And between May and October if it’s hard to find housing in the winter, then it’s basically impossible in the summer. This is not the ideal time for me to be having to look for a new place to live.

So when I got that news, my stomach was really churned up. I could feel my thinking go into overdrive, and just having lots and lots of busy thoughts about what I should do.

My mind was trying to solve the problem, which is what minds do. They’re always trying to protect us and help us and keep us safe. And that’s their job. And they take it very seriously. So definitely my mind got to work trying to fix this problem. And make it go away, essentially.

What I knew, thankfully, when all this was happening was that all that busy thinking and all that all those butterflies in my stomach, those weren’t the places to look for guidance about this issue about what I should do, if anything, who I should talk to, any actions that I should take, any investigation that I should make all that stuff. Thankfully, because of the three principles, understanding, I knew enough to just let that happen.

The busy mind and the butterflies in my stomach, knowing that it would settle down after a period of time, I didn’t know how long that would be. And also knowing that that as I said, that was not the place to go to look for answers. And so that’s what I’ve been doing. I’ve really just been sitting with my feelings just letting them happen.

At some moments, I feel really churned up and anxious. And other moments I don’t. I’m very much at peace and just going about my day and reminding myself that in the grand scheme of things having to move is a pretty small problem. But that logic, that’s a logical thought. And our emotions don’t always respond to those kinds of things.

What I’ve been doing is waiting for wisdom and insight when they’re ready to speak about any action that I need to be taking. And I should say, too, that things are still a bit up in the air. If the people who are interested in buying this apartment do that, the date of final sale wouldn’t be for about 10 days from as the day that I’m recording this. So logically to there isn’t a lot for me to do right now. It’s all unresolved and there’s still more information that needs to be conveyed.

As this was happening, I had a zoom call with my friend Tania. As I mentioned on the top of the call, Tania is the author of The Wisdom of Menopause and Perimenopause. She’s been on Unbroken, I believe she was episode four. And she works with women who are in midlife, and who are experiencing symptoms of menopause, and perimenopause, and just is a beautiful soul. I’m so grateful for her friendship. She’s so wise.

So I was sharing what was happening with her a few days ago. And we were talking about this lovely, amazing resource that we have, being able to rely on wisdom and insight, and not have to operate at the whim of our busy, fearful thinking. And she just had this lovely rhetorical question that she said that she tends to ask herself.

The question is this: where does the truth live? And at first, I didn’t quite know what she was referring to. And then she expanded on it a little bit. And she said, the truth lies in the calm, quiet, wise center of ourselves. That’s where we can go when we need answers to something. Always. We can always rely on that. And that’s where we can go to receive wisdom or to wait for wisdom, because it doesn’t always come on our schedule.

She pointed out to that the truth doesn’t lie in fear. I really loved that. She said that as well. So fear was all all those butterflies that were in my stomach and my busy, busy thinking, that panicking about what should I do? What’s going to happen? Where am I going to end up? What if I have to move out of town? All that thinking.

The truth doesn’t live there. There’s such a distinct difference between that feeling and the calm, quiet place where the truth lies. And when we know this, it’s so powerful and reassuring. And so I wanted to, to share those two questions that that Tanya rhetorically posed to me the other day, because when we can remember to ask these questions of ourselves when we’re in a situation that is bothering us or making us upset.

This week, I’ve been asking myself those questions. It’s really been helping to calm me down, but even when I don’t feel calm, there’s a part of me that that just knows Oh, right.

I have this resource that I can rely on. That’s number one. Number two, I don’t need to listen to the fearful, anxious thoughts and feelings that are going on inside me. Those butterflies in my stomach, were simply a reflection of the state of my mind in that moment. So that fearful thinking right away, creates feedback. It creates butterflies in my stomach, which is really uncomfortable. It’s not a feeling I’ve ever enjoyed. And when I feel that and then I remember Oh, right. Yes. Okay. My thinking is really stirred up and fearful. And the butterflies are telling me that so I don’t need to go there. I don’t need to look in that place for answers to my problems.

What I can instead do is remember that the truth lives where I’m feeling really calm and settled. I find that the answers that come from that really calm, wise place that exists within all of us are clear. They are very easily distinguished from the fearful thinking that I have. And they do just have this essence of calmness to them. I don’t know what other word to use. This essence of calm and clarity and wisdom for lack of any other better words to use.

So those are the questions that I wanted to share with you today. Where does the truth live? It lives in that calm, clear place, and is the truth in in the fearful, anxious stirred up feelings we have? No, it’s never there never. Even though those fearful, anxious feelings are so compelling.

I can just speak personally and say that, until I learned about this understanding, I always acted out of that place. Or almost always I guess, I should say. I took that fearful information that really stirred up crazy frightened thinking as the truth and acted more often than not out of that place, which inevitably just ended up creating more problems for me then, than I needed.

What Tania and I discussed the other day was that instead, when we listen, and wait for the answers from that very calm place, things work themselves out, it’s a much smoother journey.

I’ll just give you a quick example. I recently bought a new sofa. And so I had the old sofa in my house, and I needed to get rid of it, I didn’t want both of them in here wanted to find a place for the old one.

My brain came up with a bunch of answers about how to do that. And they were useful things to do. Like I posted a picture of the sofa and description of it on the local buy, sell, trade, barter Facebook group. I was just giving it away so I posted it on there. And I mentioned it to a couple of people. Somebody suggested check in with the fire chief in this town, because he often has new recruits coming in and they don’t have any furniture, wherever they’re staying. So I did that. I sent this guy an email.

But at the same time, I really had this sense in that calm, quiet place inside myself, that the problem would work itself out.

The new sofa arrived and I put that in place. I still didn’t have a home for the old one. So I just put it in the dining room, which was a little bit awkward. And for a couple days, I was walking around it all the time and was thinking about other actions that I should take to try to get rid of this thing. Maybe I should hire somebody to drive it to a different town. Maybe I should contact a woman’s shelter. Maybe there’s somebody who needed it there. And those are great ideas.

Again, I’m not saying these are these are not good ideas. But additionally, just the wisdom within myself was having me wait.

Just wait and and something will turn up. So a day or two went by a neighbor came up she wanted to see the new sofa. And as she came into my apartment she noticed, of course, the old sofa in the middle of the dining room. And she said, Well, what are you going to do with this? And I said, I don’t know. I’m looking for a new home for it. And she said oh put it in our community room.

You know how sometimes in condo buildings, there’s a room that you can rent or sign out out? Ours has a little kitchen setup. So fridge, stove, counter. It’s got tables and chairs and windows that look out onto the back of the building. And it’s a place where we have potluck dinners there for example. So she said put it in there because we whenever we have a little social gathering there’s never anywhere for anybody to sit, other than the dining table. So that’s what we did.

I recruited a couple of big, strong strapping neighbors, and they carried it down the walkway, and now the old sofa is in the community room where hopefully it can be of service to some other people.

That might seem like a silly example but I really liked it because of the way that I kept checking back in with wisdom, with the place where truth exists, just to see if I had got an answer and, and continue to wait until something that felt right came up. And like I said, I could have taken lots of other actions. And that would have been fine, too. I mean, really, it’s just an old sofa.

It taught me something important about how connected we all are to wisdom, and how we can rely on it. And more and more, I’m just wanting to experiment with that, and make a point of not acting out of the place of fear, and panic and insecure thinking. And it doesn’t mean that those feelings don’t come up; they certainly do. And that’s fine. I can notice them and not react to them. I can notice how fearful I am and concerned about a given situation like now, this housing situation. And then just wait.

I know for sure that answers will come from the wise place, the calm, quiet place. And they won’t necessarily be magical answers about the complete end result of this situation. In other words, it’s not like someone’s just going to come and bang on my door and say, Hey, I’ve got an apartment, would you like to rent it? But what I know wisdom will do is show up and with an idea about a next step that I could take. I don’t know what that will be at this point. And I don’t know how it will show up. But what I do know is that it will. And I will, at some point, find some truth.

The truth lives in that calm, quiet place. Something will come to me, that will enable me to take a next step in this housing situation, if necessary. Like I say, it’s still a bit up in the air. And we’ll just see how things unfold.

I wanted to share that with you today. It’s been one of the most powerful things that I’ve learned about the three principles understanding is this idea that I can rely on the wisdom within me. It’s entirely 100% reliable, it never lets us down and the universe is so much wiser than my little brain.

I love my brain, it’s a great problem solver. And the universe is just a whole lot smarter than that. That universal life energy that is flowing through all of us at all times is the thing that I am learning to be more reliant on when I’m trying to solve problems, or think of things to do or take a new direction or anything like that.

So I hope that’s helpful for you. That’s always the objective here on these Q&A episodes.

I hope you were doing well and I am sending you lots of love and just a reminder, if you want to submit a question about your life, about your overeating habit or any unwanted habit, please do so.

You can do that at alexandraamor.com/question.

I will see you again next week. Take care. Bye bye.

Featured image photo by Lili Popper on Unsplash

The post Q&A 13 – Where can I go for guidance? appeared first on Alexandra Amor.

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Our brains are designed to think and to solve problems. However, we ignore other innate tools available to us at our peril; things like our access to wisdom and peace of mind.

Poet and coach Anne Gleeson went through an exceptionally difficult time in 2020, which included a cancer diagnosis. A lifelong explorer, she happened upon the Three Principles at that time and found that an understanding of how our thinking works helped her navigate these turbulent waters. Now she assists others who want to do the same.

Anne Gleeson is a poet, a certified Change coach, and is deeply interested in helping each of us create an experience of life that is joy-filled and open to possibility.

She has worked as a teacher and leader in schools and universities, Adult Learning Centres, and in Tonga, as an Australian Volunteer Abroad. She began her professional speaking career when she returned from teaching in the Pacific and started working with Freedom from Hunger. For the past 15 years, she has worked in the Funeral Industry providing grief support as a Celebrant and Funeral Director.

Learn more about Anne Gleeson’s coaching at StormToSky.com and her poetry at eagleeson.com.au

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Show Notes

• Exploring grief and end-of-life with an open heart
• Experiencing a cancer diagnosis, a marriage breakdown, the loss of a business, and the pandemic – all at once
• Practicing not resisting experiences, even if they involve cancer
• Finding peace of mind in unexpected places

Resources mentioned in this episode

• The Little School of Big Change
• Barbara Patterson’s podcast, Real Business Real Lives
• Changeable podcast episode with Malene Colotla

Transcript of the episodeAlexandra: Anne Gleeson, welcome to Unbroken.

Anne: Thanks, Alexandra. Lovely to talk to you from the other side of the world.

Alexandra: I think you’re my first Australian guest. This is very exciting.

Anne: I feel honored.

Alexandra: Why don’t you tell us a little bit about your background and how you got interested in the principles?Anne: I grew up in a very traditional farming family in some ways; it was all about the way that the world worked. And then, in 2017, my mother was dying, and I was caring for her. And then there was a creative workshop in the town I lived.

And that was so surprising to me because I didn’t think of things like that, like, generally it was agricultural meetings, and that thing. But anyway, I couldn’t do it then because of the circumstances. But a year later, I joined that group. And it was run by somebody called Robin Emerson, who was a really beautiful creator.

She also was so interested in these ways of operating in the world. And she loaned me lots of books. And I just ran with it, and then enrolled in the next time that the Little School of Big Change course, came up with Amy Johnson.

And it was very liberating for me. I think I realized how caught up in my thinking I was and how much of my own annoyance or sadness or whatever was to do with the way I was creating an experience. So that was how I got involved in the beginning. I joined and made connections with people. And that was really lovely.

Alexandra: Were the Three Principles involved in the books Robin loaned you?Anne: Yes, they were. Amy Johnson’s books. But also other books like Michael Singer, and the person I cottoned on to it wasn’t actually a book, it was Barb Patterson’s podcast. Because I was in business, it was very interesting to me looking at it from that point of view. So it was a whole range of things. And I was hungry. So I gobbled up a whole lot of things.

Alexandra: Were you always interested in this exploration?Anne: I think, like, a lot; I’ve had this experience a few times thinking, yup. And I already knew that when I was 15, or whatever, knowing and but, this, I suppose, was giving me a bit of a language. And that’s not to say that I went with that in any way; I didn’t. But even at uni, I went from this country kid going off to Monash uni and Melbourne.

And that was so exciting for me, and I’d race around and go to all different courses and talks at anything that was my mind, was just being expanded in so many ways or my heart or whatever. So, yes, I think I was a seeker always.

Alexandra: Okay. Interesting. And so then one of the things that mention on your website is that you’re a funeral celebrant, as well as part of your work.

Do you think that work has been influenced at all by the principles?Anne: Has the funeral work been influenced? Yes, every single part of my life has. And I’ve worked in the area of bereavement care and, more, the whole funeral industry for probably 15 years or so. Now, I’m not formally part of the funeral industry, but I work still as a celebrant making the ceremonies.

But I work two days a week with aged care people, people at the end stage of life, and in palliative care. So people who are very close to the end of their life here. So most definitely.

I’ve described the place I work, even though it’s a happy place in many ways, as a reservoir of grief because so many people carry such heavy loads. And certainly, I’m not formally a coach in that setting, but that’s why I was employed because of my coaching work.

Alexandra: Interesting.

Anne: I think it’s a little bit of the politics around counseling, coaching, that thing. But I was lucky to have the combination of the funeral work, the bereavement work, and the celebrant work. I just love the work, sitting there with people who have lived a lot longer than me.

Alexandra: And you mentioned the reservoir of grief there too. Do you think this understanding has helped you personally with feelings of grief? Or how?

How do you understand grief now?Anne: Well, I understand it as being, we are really, in when we’re in real grief struck, we’re really caught up in that moment of the horror, the worst of it. And I suppose two things.

One is, that I’ve learned, not just with grief, but with other things, to really lean into that experience, rather than resisting it.

So that’s something that I will bring to people, not just in that coaching, but in general coaching as well. And I suppose, too it’s the fluctuating, the old cloud analogy, that sometimes it’s terrible, and it can’t bear to go on living another day without that person.

And then, another time you’re out in the garden, being reminded of their joyful presence, and I think, too, that lots of us have questions about how life works. I’ve become really interested in lots of the discussions lately on non-duality and thinking about the world differently, environmentally, because of that.

Alexandra: So, like you said, it’s really affected every area of your life.Anne: Most definitely, yes. My other coaching is very practical kinds of things. People have come because I had quite an academic background. So sometimes it’s people doing academic studies and not being unsure about that or not confident. And other times it’s people exploring their creativity or more, hesitation about taking on a new position, or all different things like that. So I like the mix that I’m doing at the moment.

Alexandra: One thing your website mentioned, too, was you experienced a cancer diagnosis in 2020.

Could you talk about that and how that affected your understanding of thought, if at all?Anne: I find this so interesting because I’m not a person who goes around saying thanks like ‘the gift of cancer’. But it was a horrible time. But it wasn’t what I just said about grief, it actually was a really special time.

My cancer diagnosis coincided with a complete breakdown of a fairly awful marriage and the loss of a business.

Some other things that were going on that were hard to deal with. So it was really, on the surface, but it wasn’t in another way. I just felt so drawn into nature; it was just me. I knew that’s what my body needed to be healed. And so I would go out, and just walk and, leaning against the trees and that thing.

So, just felt very in touch with being just a little part of the world. And then, I went through the treatment in 2020. And, of course, the state I live in had the most severe restrictions in the world in terms of COVID. So the experience of being in that meant that I was by myself a lot of the time. And that was okay.

I had actually thought before COVID or before cancer, I’m going to have 2020 as a dwelling year, just being I didn’t know quite how, but I’d be dwelling. But anyway, that was what happened. But then I think the most interesting thing of all was, towards the end, I received an invitation, as did many people asking if I would like to be a Change Coach. And this was with Dr. Amy Johnson. I spoke to her on Zoom.

And we talked about it, and I said, Look, I’m not really wanting to be a coach. I just want more understanding. And she said, Well, that’s fine, people do the coaching and don’t do more. But I think when you get the cancer diagnosis, it sounds so dramatic, and you don’t know if you’re going to be alive in three months’ time or three years’ time, or 33 years’ time.

And I just had this hunger again; I was thinking, well, if I have only a shorter time to live, then I really want to know more about this because just living in the moment and not resisting cancer and the treatment, and, some of the harder bits had been so helpful to me.

And so I thought, well, if I have just a little bit of time, I want to be really living fully, with this, not resisting anything and just going with dying early. Well, that didn’t happen, who I am. But anyway, I started the change coach training. And I think I was only like, the two lessons in or something. And of course, it’s a practical component.

We’re all coaching. And even the first person I coached, I just loved it and felt it felt very natural to me. So although I’d said to Amy I’m not remotely interested in coaching, I pretty quickly was very interested.

Alexandra: Can you pinpoint what it was about it that you really loved?Anne: I think I actually felt useful. I could see things that were hold-ups for people or whatever. I’ve always loved listening to people and loved people’s stories. I think it was that real connection with people on a deeper level that I really liked. But feeling useful is good, too.

Alexandra: I agree, it’s a good feeling to feel useful.

Anne: Was I resisted the fearful approach to the whole medical thing and just went with it? And really gotten such a strong connection with nature. I mean, I think I’ve always had that. But it was intensified immensely.

Alexandra: During your cancer treatments and that time, you talked about how you didn’t try to resist what was happening.

Can you share a little bit about what that lack of resistance like?Anne: So just thinking that death could be part of my experience, and not even really planning too much about it, just taking that on, that, Oh, well, maybe I do just have a short time to live. And then other things would be, well, some of the treatment is quite painful, physically painful.

I’ve joked about this with the group that I’m on the other side of Australia, and I remember Amy talking about pain as being pressure or heat. But when you’re actually here, on the other side of the world, with all the people in their white coats, trying to remember that it doesn’t ring quite as true.

But in a way, that was it, that I wasn’t just thinking, Well, it is just pain. I had quite a reaction to some of the treatments. And well, that’s what’s happening, but also a little bit still connected with the nature thinking, well, in this organism, that’s what’s going on. And like looking at the different formations of trees and how the lichen grows on some trees and not on others.

So, and just, again, taking opportunities, like, as I said, it was during COVID. And now, just, for example, the radiation was one of the things that I had this extraordinary reaction to, and rather than focusing on the pain and the burn and whatnot, focusing on these delightful young women who were there, the radiologists and just trying to enjoy this story a little bit, because, of course, everyone was eager for a chat, given the circumstances that we weren’t allowed to be together.

Alexandra: I imagine there is a lot of thinking and emotions that go along with that cancer diagnosis you touched on. It gave you a bit of a perspective about your life in that larger way.

In smaller ways, I imagine it must have helped you with the thinking that went on, day to day, moment to moment. Is that true? Anne: Yes. I just became lighter, which is quite bizarre. And I also came out with a very clear resolution, and you’ll think I’m the biggest hypocrite on earth if I tell you because I thought if I only can achieve one thing now, it’s to write the story of my sister. My sister lives with multiple disabilities. And I have to say, well, that’s still my resolution. It’s it hasn’t been accomplished.

Alexandra: Well, you’ve got time now, though. I guess that’s the nice thing. And it must have been such a, well, I was going to say isolating experience to be going through COVID and to be going through cancer at the same time.

It sounds like it didn’t really strike you that way.Anne: That’s correct. And the more isolating experience was, the more personal things were the end of the marriage and business and everything., that was awful. But no, I couldn’t say that, I can’t say I had the same experience as many people who speak of the lockdowns here.

Because it wasn’t like that for me, it was okay to be on my own and do what I needed to. I wasn’t completely on my own. I had all these medical stuff companies. And my children got permission to come and be with me for a bit of help after the surgery and whatnot.

Alexandra: Good. That’s very good.

When we had our little email exchange, we talked a bit about overeating habits. And so, I tend to focus on talking about overeating. But we can really use that word ‘overing’ to talk about any unwanted habit.

Do you work with clients on ‘overing’?Anne: Yes. So some of those things I mentioned, for example, people starting in a new position are very anxious about it, so the thinking, and me, I had that experience this year, where I was starting something new, and I could pick myself up on that overthinking, or, I, making up stories in my head about things I was, making as might be problems, for example. And so, so those kinds of things.

And sometimes, just getting listening to people. And, hearing where their hold-ups are, I suppose, one of the things, and I think almost everybody that I’ve worked with, the overthinking is a problem for all of us, we have a project we create all sorts of scenarios. So, yes.

Alexandra: If someone’s not familiar with the Inside-Out understanding, where would you begin with them if they overthink things?Anne: If they weren’t calm and said, I’m overthinking. They’ll come and say, I’ve got this project that I want to start, and I can’t make myself start. So, then I have been here and, try and get them to see what’s actually stopping them.

And then, a bit of an explanation of how the mind might be busy protecting them from starting something new and an adventurer, that, might have a bit of risk, and whatever, I’m trying to keep them in the safe territory of not doing what they want to do. So that might be where I go with something like that.

Alexandra: Do you find people catch on quite quickly? Anne: I think sometimes it’s surprising. So I do a coaching session, and then I send out an email to them, maybe a week later or so. And, although I feel that I’ve said what I’ve said in the email, sometimes they’ll come back to me and say, that was so amazing to read that, so it might be the second time, or might be that then we have another follow-up session.

And they’ll catch on to something that’s been said the first time. So, that can often happen. And I suppose too, like, I’m not overtly starting off with the three principles, although I’m operating from that understanding. I’m not coming in heavy with that. And I think I mean, I am immediately bringing it in. But I’m not using those terms.

Alexandra: Right. that’s such a good way to say it.

Anne: I don’t have a lot of people. So I have the two days where I’m working with older people. There were the people in care. And then some of those are in palliative care, so they’re very close to the end of their life. And then the other people I’m working with, I try and have five ongoing seeing clients, and, over time you build up such an extraordinary relationship.

So I can’t see how people do so many. But people do it very well. I mean, obviously, I’ve been the recipient of people who have a lot more and have coached me and been very successful. So I’m not at all making judgments. I’m just saying, for me, this works, having five ongoing clients, and then that allows other people to come in, just for, a single or package of three or whatever.

But I think, in that time, when you have an ongoing relationship, and you’re operating at this depth, and you’re exploring together, you do become so close. It’s just really special.

Alexandra: There’s that soul connection that happens.Anne: And I think, for me, Alexandra, I don’t know if it’s the same for you, I am a bit isolated in that there are far fewer people down this end of the world talking about this, but I have maintained connections with some of the people in America that I studied with initially. And that’s been very special. And then last year, I went over to the conference in the middle of the year.

And that was, like, I think, me just wanting to be in the environment with people. It wasn’t thinking I’m going to learn a huge amount or anything like that. But it was really wanting to have that connection at that level. And interesting. Robin, the person who introduced me in the very first place, now lives in the States. We live a long way away apart from each other.

But every phone call we have, which is not often, but every few months or so. That’s inevitably what we talked about.

Alexandra: I was in Portland a few weeks ago with Michael Neill and Barbara Patterson. They had a little weekend workshop. I never know what to call it. Was it a retreat? Was it a workshop? I don’t know. Anyway, it was the first ever three principles thing I had gone to in person.

It was extraordinary to meet other people and have those conversations in person. It was really lovely. So I can see the attraction of doing that for sure.

Now, you mentioned your sister and her disabilities. It occurred to me that, that it’s one thing to be dealing with are the all our own challenges in our lives, like you talked about your cancer diagnosis, and the breakdown of your marriage and the end of the business, those are things that are happening to us personally.

With someone in your life who is experiencing struggles, what’s it been like for you, being with her? And has that changed since you’ve come across this understanding?Anne: Yes, so hugely; I’ve probably always been the one who’s been her big sister, like, as kids, we shared a room. And interestingly, one of the things that got me to actually sign up on the Little School of Big Change, or one of the issues that I had when I came, was to do with her. She had overdosed, and she lives in a care-supported accommodation.

And she had been given someone else’s drugs on top of her own. And so arrested, and a staff member and I did CPR, and she lived, but for a whole weekend, she stopped breathing. And that was on and off. So a very critical situation.

I was consumed with anger, not because of the mistake, I make mistakes, but I was consumed anger because I perceived the carelessness of the organization in having this happen, the circumstances are not so relevant, but there were circumstances that should not have been the case, that I was just, I couldn’t get out of this.

I was traumatized. Obviously, that was a physical reaction, and from the time, I couldn’t let it go. Whereas over time, I came to think quite compassionately about these people who are in jobs that were aspects beyond them and who haven’t been in a job where aspects are beyond me. And also, I thought, they just don’t have local how ridiculous like expecting them to do what they can’t do.

And then one thing, this was actually something that Amy talked about that really resonated, and I know a lot of us found it quite jarring because we were thinking of very confronting situations. But she was saying if you were that person, you would do the same.

That’s very confronting when you think of some of the things that people do to other people. And so, I softened and thought, Well, it would be pretty awful working in a job where you don’t actually have the capacity to do all the things that are required.

And they just accepted well that they were doing their best. But of course, there’s another heart level where my sister almost died because of the way things were being done. That’s an example of where I’ve changed. And I think, too, I grew up super protective of her. We all did in our family, and we were very protective.

I remember back to when people use pretty ordinary terms to describe someone like Denise and we were defensive, her siblings. But I think in more recent years, I was able to step have been able to step back a little bit, in that I knew I needed to move out of that situation, we were living in the same town.

I knew that for my health, I needed to not be in the situation with the previous marriage, their business, etc., that I was now not a part of. But that meant leaving my sister, and it was agonizing. I felt very torn about that. But, so a bit of trust, I suppose. I’m not the only one other. People don’t have a system. Not everyone has this. So, I’ve moved in that way, too. But I’m not pretending I find it easy.

Alexandra: No. And then, in terms of her suffering, which I don’t know if she experienced his suffering, but has the way you see that, if it exists, changed?

I’m asking because that’s something I struggle with; seeing other people suffering and really getting a lot of thinking about it.Anne: I’m not so sure. I think the understanding has certainly made me more compassionate about a lot of things that I might not have had a connection with. But I think I’ve always had that very strong connection with Denise, my sister, and work pretty hard in with the organization that’s often very difficult and challenging in a whole lot of ways.

Because I want things to be better for her, but I guess I’ve expanded a bit because I, it’s not just her. I want things to be better for all people with intellectual disabilities. I listened to a very powerful interview. It was Changeable. So again, it was Amy Johnson’s podcast with a woman called Malene [Colotla].

And I can’t remember her surname, but it was on the interconnectedness of all species. And it just had such a powerful effect on me, when something there’s just a standout one, sometimes that will really trigger me, and that did have such an effect on me.

Even in the way I treat my dogs, I was suddenly thinking, Well, why should I have a more comfortable situation than them and that think that, she’s made more dramatic changes in her life than I have? But, it was something that really affected me in the way she spoke about the interconnectedness of species.

Alexandra: Oh, cool. Well, thank you for mentioning that. I will find that episode and put it in the show notes for sure. So people can see it.

So as we’re coming to the end of our time here, I wanted to ask:

Is there anything else that you would like to share that we haven’t touched on yet today?Anne: Well, probably one of the most important things in my life is my writing. So, I’ve written three books of poetry. And it’s interesting to me. It comes back to your first question; I think there are things that I’ve written about that based on the three principles, like a concept in a poem that I wasn’t aware of. I know too in my writing that I have changed, that it’s a different lens as everything has changed.

My poetry is such a joy and satisfaction to me, and it connects me with a whole other community. So I think that’s something where I can see the change. But I can also think, Oh, that’s interesting that I could write that back then when I didn’t have that understanding in a formal way.

Alexandra: Oh, fascinating. To me, that points to the truthfulness of these principles and this understanding or the universality.

Anne: And also our own connection with it. That it’s part of us, it’s not out there. It’s us.

Alexandra: Oh, really well said.

Where can we find out more about you and your work? And?Anne: I have two websites. stormtosky.com. Okay, I have a business to do with coaching and funeral work.

And eagleason.com.au is my writing website.

Alexandra: All right. I’ll put links to both of those as well in the show notes at unbrokenpodcast.com.

Anne: Thanks, Alexandra. I love hearing from people, so it’s alright if people just want to send through an email or whatever.

Alexandra: Okay, great. Fantastic. Well, this has been a real treat. Thank you so much for being here with me today.

Anne: Thanks for having me. I’d love to do it.

Alexandra: Oh, good. I’m glad. Take care. Bye.

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My mood sucks today. It took everything I had to get to my desk and record this episode. But I hope that by sharing what I see about low moods, it will help you when you encounter one.

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Show Notes

• How we’re not responsible for our low moods
• How resisting what’s happening (like a low mood) seems to make it sticky
• Are low moods a precursor to insight or a new creative idea?

Resources mentioned in this episode

• Q&A Episode 9: What is depression?
• Unbroken Ep 11: Sensitivity to Our Thinking with Jonelle Simms

Transcript of episodeHello, Explorers, and welcome to Q&A Episode number 12 of Unbroken podcast. I’m your host, Alexandra Amor. And I’m really happy to have you here with me today.

Today the question we’re going to explore is what does my low mood mean? I’m doing this one specifically today, because my mood is really low today. And I thought what better way to expand on this topic, explore it a little bit. And then I was originally going to post a different q&a episode next week, number 13. But I think what I’m going to do is a follow up episode to this one. In a few days, I’ll record that and just let you know how things are going.

For me right now, my mood is is really low today, like really low. All I want to do is just lie on the couch and stare at the ceiling. And it’s kind of been going downhill for a couple of days, I’ve noticed that. What I wanted to talk about was a few different things.

The first thing I want to say is, it’s so easy for us to take these things personally. Until I learned about this understanding, that’s exactly what I did. And before I started exploring this understanding, I would have heaped blame on myself for this low mood. And that would have looked like a lot of chatter in my head about how can I get out of this mood? How can I change it? What’s wrong with me? What have I done to create this? How can I fix it. A lot of taking responsibility for it innocently.

And maybe talking to myself about being lazy or unmaotivated, anything in that kind of realm. And, again, yeah, that was an innocent reaction to what was happening. I see this kind of situation, this kind of low mood very differently now.

One of the things I wanted to say is that when we have a lot of that chatter about our responsibility for our moods, and blaming ourselves and shaming ourselves for that, that is resistance. So any kind of any kind of chatter like that is really us resisting what is happening. And again, we do this innocently. I certainly did it for years and decades.

The way that I see it so differently now is that instead of it’s instead of thinking that it’s me, somehow magically creating this mood, and I’m somehow responsible for what’s happening. What I see now is that this is universal life energy moving through me, and this is just what’s happening today. And when I see this low mood from that perspective, what that means is that I don’t take it personally at all.

There’s a little bit of background chatter, I guess, about how I don’t like what’s going on. But what’s really nice is that I’m not taking responsibility for it, like I said. It’s something that’s moving through me at this moment. It came in when it wanted to come in, and it’ll leave when it wants to leave. I really see it, that these kinds of things, even when we don’t like them, they have the same kind of wisdom, as the weather and fighting them is just as useless as fighting or complaining about the weather.

So that was the first thing I wanted to say:

It’s the taking of our moods personally, that that really makes them sticky. And it’s that resistance, or that is resistance and it that just tends to make the situation worse rather than better.

In the past, I think I would have noticed too that because of all the resistance that I would have been doing the moods that I didn’t like lasted way longer, and were much more extreme and were much more painful for me. So yeah, there was just a lot more suffering. because of what I believed was happening because of the responsibility that I believed that I had for that mood.

It seems to me, and this is why I wanted to post this today, record this today and then record a follow up for next week, after a few days, it seems to me that there is always wisdom in these low moods, that’s at least been my experience.

If you go back to Q&A episode 9, that one’s about depression and it ties in really nicely with this episode. And what I saw, and you can listen to the full episode there, but what I saw with the periods of depression that I experienced, was that there was some wisdom to them. The way that I describe it is the tide had gone way out. So, everything got really quiet. And the ocean seemed quite far away.

And if we didn’t know any better, of course, we wouldn’t know that the tide, of course, it always comes back in. So what I’ve been exploring today and what I wanted to share is, what if I just really lean into the wisdom that’s here in this low mood?

What could it be that it’s trying to tell me? Will there be any insights for me about what’s happening? Now, I think, and I could really explore this in a lot more depth. But one thing that I’m noticing is that sometimes these things happen, and they are just like the weather, they’re just moving through. That’s just what they are. And they finish when they finish and we carry on with our lives.

And then other times, there can be at least my experience has been there can be an insight that comes from, from a situation like a low mood like this. And I don’t know what the difference is. I don’t know why it is that sometimes that happens and sometimes it doesn’t. Maybe sometimes I just don’t notice the wisdom that comes with the low mood, I’m not sure. But what I want to explore this week with myself is just observing the low mood and whether or not there’s something to be gleaned from it, I’m really not attaching a lot of heaviness or significance to that question.

I’m holding it super lightly. I can say that in the past the last few months, anytime I enter a low mood, what usually ends up happening, and I think I talked about this on the episode with Jonelle Sims, what usually ends up happening is that as I come out of the low mood, there’s kind of a shift, something creative happens. I have a new idea about something I want to explore here on the podcast or in a piece of writing or whatever it is.

So it is like the tide going out. And then when the tide comes back in, it brings new information. But again, I’m not too attached to that. This may just be a storm moving through, and there’s nothing I need to do about it. And when it’s done, it’ll be done.

So that’s what I wanted to share today. That’s not a very coherent, I don’t think exploration. So I apologize for that. It took everything I had to just show up at my desk here today. But as I say, what I’m really interested to do is to record another episode for next week. So that’ll be episode 13. And that’ll be a follow up to this one about low moods.

So that’s what I wanted to share with you today. Just the ideas of not taking our low moods to personally, not resisting them, which really I think helps them to move through much more quickly.

And then the bonus thing on top of that the icing is being open to the idea that low moods might be a precursor to some sort of shift or insight or idea, or creative impulse or thing that I want to do.

I hope that’s been helpful for you. Thank you so much for listening. I certainly look forward to what’s going to happen next week on episode 13.

Take care and I will see you then. Bye

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Innocently, we can fall into a habit of resisting the experiences our lives bring us. We resist the challenges, the heartache, the struggle. But what if that’s where the juicy stuff is?

Author and coach Phil Goddard joins me to talk about embracing all that life has to offer, even when it’s painful or challenging, and the wisdom and delight that can arise as a result.

Phil Goddard brings a uniquely compassionate understanding of being human into his work as an executive trusted advisor, leadership mentor, and relationship coach, to help organisations develop teams in which people love to work, love to lead, and love to create.

Phil’s work centres around transforming relationships and leadership through developing a deeply grounded understanding of the principles behind our human experience and the nature of how our experience of life is created

He has worked with Hollywood actors, international models, journalists, artists, authors, film directors, corporate executives, and numerous business owners, leaders and entrepreneurs. A prolific writer, ghostwriter, and author of 5 books, he is also the host of the award winning Coaching Life Podcast, and The Loving Being Human Podcast.

You can find Phil Goddard at his website philg.com and on Facebook.

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.

Show Notes

• On the gradual move from the tech world and people management to coaching
• How in the absence of resistance to life, love arises
• How our search for something can often obscure our view of it
• What are compensating strategies for perceived inadequacies?
• On our entirely normal and natural need to be seen and validated

Resources Mentioned in this Episode

• Book: The Road Less Traveled by M. Scott Peck
• Book: The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey
• Book: Tasting Mangoes by Phil Goddard
• Book: It’s Not About the Food by Alexandra Amor
• Book: Musings on Love by Phil Goddard
• Mavis Karn’s letter The Secret
• Book: It’s That Simple by Mavis Karn

Transcript of Interview with Phil GoddardAlexandra: Phil Goddard, welcome to Unbroken.

Phil: My gosh, thank you for inviting me. Delighted to be here. Thank you.

Alexandra: And from such a long way away. You’re the second person this week that I’ve spoken to from the southern hemisphere. So thank you. Thank you for beaming your way all the way to Canada.

Phil: Only just the southern hemisphere, I think. We’re pretty close to the equator here. And yes, almost the opposite side of the world, I think.

Alexandra: Like if you put a pencil through the globe?

Phil: The American East Coast is pretty much, I know, from the time difference, that’s 12 hours, right? And I think ours is something like 15 or whatever says. This is what you’re saying to record. I record I’m essentially on the next day, and I recommend it. Today’s a good day.

Alexandra: Isn’t that a funny thing that we’re here we are in the present moment, and yet you’re on Wednesday and I’m on Tuesday.

Phil: Some deeply profound lesson in there somewhere? Sure, we can find it. Yes

Alexandra: Why don’t you tell us a little bit about your background and how you got interested in the Three Principles?Phil: So probably, like many who even listen or have come across the principles I searched, didn’t know what I was searching for. For most of my life, I’ve got a background in electronics and technology. And my first career was very much in technology. I spent 26 years in total in corporate, a lot of leadership positions.

I loved those. I had my first team leader role will be part of a small team of four or five people in 1991. And I just loved that I had some responsibility, as we all have anyway, of course, but some influence as we all have as well over other people. This was a formal responsibility. So it’s really like from there that I really got, I guess, aware of my interest and curiosity in people.

And, I was doing all that stuff about reading leadership books, personal development books and stuff, but it really kicked off in 1998. A spiritual exploration kicked off then when my first marriage broke down. And my brother-in-law at the time handed me M. Scott Peck’s book The Road Less Traveled.

It’s a beautiful book because he opened the book with the line, “Life is difficult” and then spends the rest of the book explaining how once we can truly accept with grace, that actually becomes a little bit easier. So in answer to your question, I was on holiday in Sharm El Sheikh in Egypt in March 2004.

So 19 years ago, I was reading The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey. And I haven’t gone back to this line for many years. So I might have even been quoting it incorrectly. But it doesn’t matter. Because it’s a line in the book, which says something like between stimulus and response is a gap. And in that gap lies your ultimate freedom.

I dropped the book, and I’ve referred to that as my drop the book moment, like I was actually shocked, because I just in that moment, I am creating my experience I just saw in that moment, I’m creating my experience gives me goosebumps, just even relaying that story.

Well, that really started me looking in that direction, like who else has seen this? Who else is teaching this? I came across Michael Neill started listening to his Hay House Radio Show in 2007. And which I think is about the time that he’d come across the principles.

So I didn’t come across the principles. Then, when I came across the principles via Michael Neill, it was like, okay, what a beautiful way to articulate this understanding that I felt I had seen something. It’s a very concise, simple way of describing how we experience life, how we create our experience of life, and essentially who we are.

So, that was my journey into the principles. And of course, I think, I feel like I’ve gone full circle, I’ve had a number of times, which I will call insights, where it’s like, Oh, my God, I’ve seen something deeper since there was something so when was that? I say 2007-2008 coming across the actual principles, but even nearly 10 years after that, I had a conversation with Dicken Bettinger in 2017.

So I’ve been around, I felt I’d been around this understanding a long time. And I really got a holy moly moment, then of just seeing something deeper. And even since then, it’s like nuances to it. So, it feels like it’s been a long time. And also like, it’s only really recently because of the subtleties that we can see.

I used to chuckle at people as well that really come on. It’s just that simple. Okay, how can you suddenly see something deeper in it? Like the best insights or when you see something for me, it looks like the best insights, or you see something new. But there aren’t any new words was like, Well, if I told you what I’m seeing, I’m going to be saying exactly what I said 10 years ago, but it’s like, wow. Yes, that’s my story and summary principles.

Alexandra: I love that you connected your enjoyment of working with people in the tech world. And of course, now you’re a coach. I think that’s just such an interesting journey.

One wouldn’t normally maybe, put those two things together. But clearly, you were on a spectrum. If that’s the right way to describe it.Phil: For sure. And It was only a couple of years ago that somebody who was coaching me helped me to see that I had been coaching a lot longer than I thought I had. Because right from the off, I wanted to be the best leader, and I wanted people to love me, which actually they did.

I would have either weekly or monthly, just very regular one on one meetings with people in my teams, and I did that alter my leadership career. And looking back, I can see, that was definitely coaching, I would encourage people to bring whatever they have going on.

And in fact, I think there was a time when I was a much better coach, whatever that means. But I was definitely a more present coach with these people. At times, then some of the times during my coaching and training. And a lot of coaching training in the US when I was trying to be somebody I was trying to, I thought I had to be a certain coach.

So, I can see oh, my gosh, I have been coaching for over 30 years, because definitely have regular conversations like that, some will be very intimate, but some beautiful conversations. But it hadn’t occurred to me that what I was doing, I didn’t know what I was doing. It was just one on ones where people just brought whatever they had going on. Well, that just definitely sounds like coaching to me.

Alexandra: Absolutely. Yes, for sure. I mentioned to you that I’ve been reading your book Tasting Mangoes recently, which I just loved. And so I’m going to go to a couple of things that I found in the book now that I found really interesting.

One of the things you say is that often personal development and spiritual teachings are actually asking us to transcend the human experience, but that it’s in the human experience that we find so much treasure, as it were. You didn’t use that word, I’m using that word. I so agree with that.

Could you just expand on that a little bit for us?Phil: I’ve had this vision, this dream that we arrive at the metaphorical pearly gates, and if it’s St. Peter they’re like checking off his list and whatever. I think for certainly the first 40 years of my life 54 now but definitely, for the first 40 odd years I think I might get reprimanded.

“What the hell were you doing? You went there to be there. You didn’t go there to try and escape. You went there to experience everything that it is to be human.”

Having said that, I can also see that this urge, this desire to want to transcend whatever will perhaps we mean by that maybe I’ll come back to that. It’s also very natural.

It’s also very natural. And I think for me I’ve fallen in love again with being human hence part of my brand I guess you would say is loving being human that pretty much summarizes what I help people with so where is the magic oh my gosh an overused analogy.

Okay, maybe you want to edit it this bit out. It’s so overused, but it’s also so perfect like the wave in the ocean. The magic’s also in the waves, isn’t it right the magic’s in those in those waves.

I love where I live now in Bali actually is there’s the calmest ocean probably on the island. I love floating in there. But there are people out there surfing it in the distance and stuff like the magic of that. And, I think I might even say that there’s some magic even in the suffering. Gosh, I could talk about this a lot. I’m just trying to think well, what waterway I want to summarize because generally, I will be talking about this for a year in conversation with people, right?

So what can I summarize in a 30 or 40-minute conversation around this, I’ve come to see. And again, it’s funny how it comes right back to that very first spiritual book that I read. I come to see that once I stopped resisting aspects of being human, including suffering, in the absence of resistance, love arose.

Love arises in the absence of resistance. And there’s magic in that. And I think even that desire to transcend really is coming from a feeling that well, this should or could be different. I don’t know if this is right or wrong, maybe I’ve got completely the wrong way around.

And now when I get to those pearly gates, Peter says, you had it nailed on, you spent 40 years trying your best, I thought you’re gonna make it. And then you gave up?

Alexandra: Exactly. I love that, and I think you’re so right about it just being human nature, to try to avoid suffering, and I really understand why we do that.

If we just lean in a little more, I think there is so much beauty to be found there and less suffering when there’s less resistance for sure.Phil: I think whatever we have going on resistance acts as a suffering multiplier, and that’s fine. Because I guess if I was to have any gripe about how the three principles are taught, I see them being taught as a means to reduce our suffering. Whereas as far as I can tell, and I’ve listened to a lot of Syd Banks talks was all really descriptive rather than prescriptive.

So the teaching of the principles was often used as learn this, and then you will suffer less. And I think that has come from a place that’s not the most helpful because this reducing in suffering, and quite frankly, it’s not like the disappearing of all suffering, it really is this, there’s something that eases around it.

And it’s like a contradiction that the suffering just becomes easier through understanding, as I haven’t done anything. I’ve not even tried to suffer less. I heard Aaron Turner speaking on a podcast a year or two ago. And he said, he can always tell when somebody is relatively new to the understanding because he’ll talk to them about the principles and they’ll say something like, it’s been beautiful. It’s been it had a beautiful impact on my life.

However, I still notice that I’m experiencing sadness, anger, anxiety, or whatever. Whereas he says that people who have been in the understanding for a while come to see that. Yes, that’s it. And the phrase he used, which I loved, and that I’ve stolen many times since his, we can’t escape the system. Like this is this is all part of the gig, which is the language I use, like, this is it, the heartbreak and whatever that’s all part of. That’s part of the gig.

Alexandra: It’s part of the game. I truly agree. I was going to say there was something I used to think about, which was that it’s like we’re trying to rig the game if we try to avoid the things that are naturally happening within it. And that defeats the purpose as it were.

I’m going to go back to Tasting Mangoes and ask you. There is this lovely quote, so I’m going to quote you to yourself if that’s okay.

“You just might find what you were looking for, when you notice how your search is the very thing that is obscuring your view of it.”

I’d love for you to talk about that a little bit and maybe relate it to trying to let go have an unwanted habit because that’s what we talk about here a lot on Unbroken.Phil: I’m glad you’ve added the second part, actually, because that definitely will help in my explanation. So here’s the thing: If I search for something, my premise is I don’t have it, or I can’t yet see it, or maybe it’s detached from me in some way.

There’s a guy, William White Cloud, and I continue to credit him because the phrase that I heard it’s just had such a profound impact where, he says, was it four or five words? Compensating strategy for perceived inadequacies.

We employ, throughout life, various compensating strategies for perceived inadequacies.

I can see how anytime that I employ a compensating strategy, my perceived inadequacy or the perception of that inadequacy get strengthened by the action that I’m actually taking. And that’s happening at pretty deep levels, like that’s the message to my subconscious, because you’re inadequate in this way you need to do this, it’s really strengthening that.

So even if we are searching for love that’s how we had a deep psychological impact in us that we don’t have love. And that can apply as well to peace. Like if I’m searching for peace, that means I don’t have it, and that’s why I continue to search. And yet, because I’m searching, I strengthen the belief that I don’t have it done.

So that also strengthens my experience of it. So that’s really what I’m pointing to in that quote. I think habits, like overeating and stuff, I think there’s very often more to them than just that because there’s gosh, okay, so I know that I’ve had at various times not the most healthy relationship with food, sometimes I think I have it nailed.

And then I can catch myself using food as something other than nourishment, I guess. But it might be a moment, I might use it for emotional nourishment. In fact, side note here, I think we could wipe out obesity in a generation, as parents, if we stopped using food as a reward mechanism.

There’s a side note, but the thing is, food becomes quite complex because we have an emotional relationship with food, other than it being food, fuel, and nourishment for our bodies. So I think that whole overeating thing, generally. In my experience, when I’ve delved into this, both in my own experience and with clients is never really actually about overeating, right? That’s a byproduct.

That’s a coping strategy. Overeating becomes a coping strategy. So we want to look at, well, what’s the perceived inadequacy, the perceived absence? What is it? And it can be? For sure, like, Oh, I’m lonely, so I’m eating well, okay, so feeling lonely, completely natural.

What is it? So is there a perceived inadequacy that I can’t deal with the loneliness? So there can be many different things to look at there. But the overriding thing is not really it. It’s really what’s behind that.

Alexandra: Thank you for saying that. The title of my most recent book is It’s Not About the Food. I totally agree.

Shifting gears slightly, one of the things you come back to a couple of different times is your relationship with your dad and how getting curious about him was a big moment for you.

I wondered if you could share a little bit about that because I thought it was so impactful for any relationship, not just with a parent.Phil: Gosh, I’m just noticing as well; even the emotion in me is quite alive with this one. Because, so I didn’t like my dad for all of my childhood and the vast majority of my adult life. It wasn’t until I was 48 that I had this moment, which is funny because I thought I’d done some work before then.

I was like, I’ve forgiven him. I remember a girlfriend I had years ago said, there’s still more for you to see here. It’s like she could see so you could say, okay, it looks like that to you that she was actually spot on. Well, I think the emotion, by the way, is because I just came back in Bali in February. I’ve been back to England for a few months and in Greece as well.

And so I say goodbye again, once again, to my dad, who’s now 88, like my plan and has proved to be valid for a year. So, there’s this thinking there, and it’s like, okay, well, I didn’t enjoy my dad. And in fact that he got really bad press in my first book, Musings On Love and I even used the term abuse. I had this moment of I’ve seen more and more and more and more and more the role of my stories in life.

You’ve probably heard Byron Katie says no two people have ever met. And what she basically pointing to is that we only experience the story of the other person. A client of mine recently when I said, there are six people in your marriage, there’s you and your husband, then there’s your husband’s story of you and your story of your husband.

And, then, there’s your story of you and your husband’s story of him. Like, there’s like this six people.

So I realized in a moment, I thought, I call this stuff going on, I won’t use a word that you might have to bleep out. Anyway, I had done all this stuff going on about my dad, and who knows where the thought came from. What’s it like to really be him, though? We had been talking about my book and stuff.

And I just realized I don’t really know what it’s like to be him. I can imagine what it was like being me in his situation. And I imagined what it was like for the story. That’s my story of my dad in that situation. And it was laced with lots of should and musts, and what have you. And I just noticed him. I never spoke to him about it.

I never asked him how did you feel when you got home from a long day at work, as four of us children, you got home and I said, I remember you getting home and having your dinner, separate from us because it was too late for us. And he would have his dinner and put his headphones on. And for 30-odd years since then, I’ve been saying, God, how out of order was he to just block out his family, right? That was my story.

He admitted, he found it tough. He found it hard being a provider, being really tired, and then expected to be there for his children. I have to say, I do chuckle at people who say who’ve never I’ve never been a parent yet. And then they’ve they’re about to be in that like, no, we get it.

So I just asked what was that like for you? In essence, what I was getting to know, we’re what we’re here; I could see his coping strategies for life and for how he was feeling. And realize, I mean, this is a phrase that’s used very much, and the principle is the innocence of that and just doing what makes sense.

And that leads on to something else about forgiveness, because it’s like, where I was coming from before was like, oh, what he did was wrong. But in my understanding, in my moral high ground, I can understand that made sense to him. So yes, I forgive him. However, when you have a real depth of understanding, I can see that he was innocent.

And therefore the condemnation, no, it was the condemnation, was unnecessary. And without condemnation forgiveness is unnecessary. It was like it just made sense to me. I just started to really get to know well, this is yet another layer, but I started to get to know who my dad thought he was. Because all I got up to that point was who I thought my dad was and who I thought my dad should be. When I started to get just to get to know who he thought he was.

Alexandra: Wow. And I’m so curious. Your dad is obviously British. So pretty stiff upper lip, I’m imagining.

Was he open to your curiosity?Phil: I remember being amazed by it because I can probably summarize. We never had any deep and meaningful talks. We never had any conversations really about feelings. In fact, leading up to this breakthrough moment, I’d had what I found a very painful breakup with somebody.

And at the same time, just looping back to what I said earlier is like, I was utterly heartbroken at this breakup. And yet, at the same time, I could see this is cool. This is fine. Let it be, even the sobbing in the fetal position in my lounge. There was still in a level of awareness that this is all-natural, let that be.

Anyway, I got to a point I was around him one day. And he just said, Well, how are you doing? And I just burst out crying. I was a 40-odd-year-old man. And he said, Oh, come on. Now come on. Now, let’s not be having that here because that is that whole, like stiff, stiff upper lip attitude. And we never had any conversations about feelings; there wasn’t that affection there.

And there’s a bit of me I’m chuckling about that. I remember at the time, and things have developed since then, I don’t even know if he’s aware of this or shared that I’ve shared this before in other interviews and what have you. But since, like these conversations, I used to go to his house.

And I would sit on the sofa. And he would sit at a chair which is at right angles. When I go around now, and probably nine times out of 10. He comes and sits on the sofa with me. I bet he doesn’t even realize that he’s doing that.

Alexandra: That’s lovely. Wow. that’s beautiful. I think I resonate with that a lot because I can really relate. When my dad came home from work, he didn’t put headphones on, he drank. It’s the same impulse. We do what occurs to us in the moment in order to cope with whatever’s going on in our thinking and all that stuff.

So, I can completely relate to that. And the reason I asked that question about whether he was open to your curiosity or not – my dad has passed away now, and he would never have answered a question like that if I had asked.

It’s lovely that your dad has moved on to the couch with you.Phil: I don’t think he was comfortable about it because it was uncharted territory for him and but he accepted that book with such grace when I offered it to him. I was excited about my first book, and I forewarned him. I’d written stuff in the book my first book first couple of books really were stuff that I’d written over a period of years, and I forewarned him that there’s this stuff that I have written in there and published which I would probably write differently today and after reading it.

He was so excited to read it. He took on board advanced warning of course and afterward he said I’d like to talk to you about some of the things in the book because he actually was something that I think stirred in him and this is what I see in all of us like we all do want to be known. We want to be seen heard understood and indeed validated.

And like, oh my god, how much personal development relationship coaching do we see that says we should transcend that overcome that deal with that? It’s like, no, this is we’re not designed to just live alone. And it’s like this is again part of the gig is to be relating with each other with nature and having those innate needs.

I’ve given up on trying to transcend hundreds of 1000s of years of human evolution. I have a need to be validated. I have a need to be seen, heard, understood, as did my dad so he would have never used those words.

But, I really honor him, and I’m so grateful to him for honoring that desire to want to have that dialogue because, up till then, it does need some time since he’s very stubborn. I am, too. I can see like there’s stuff I get from him. I don’t know if it’s generic or conditioning, but like I can be really stubborn too. He doesn’t like to be wrong.

That’s probably my favorite thing altogether out of the Stephen Covey book has habit three I don’t know four. “Seek first to understand, then be understood.” And if you want to know how to transform any relationship, professional or personal, if you take that, seek first to understand, then be understood. That’s that whole curiosity thing as well.

So, at that moment, so grateful because it totally transformed my relationship with him. We hug each other, and I have to say we’re so different. It’s not like, oh, he’s a best buddy that I love hanging out with like we’re so different.

He’s not someone that I wouldn’t be choosing just to hang out with, but what again, instead of me resisting how he is and entertaining all of my stories, right in the absence once again of that resistance, there is this very natural novelette the guy’s my dad and once we start on the thought train so once I started really appreciating oh my god, how hard it was for him or what a wonderful provider he was? Of course, he is.

There’s lots of things he did, like he disowned me for ten years, right? I cannot imagine doing that to my son and yet we discussed that he is talking about how it was with his second wife, the woman he left my mother for. Oh my gosh, that sounds like an impossible situation like he’s having to choose between his wife and his son.

Anyway, yes, I think we digressed a little bit. I’m just super, super grateful for that. I don’t know for sure, but I have seen it many times since that if I am curious.

There’s something in that, like, I can always go first when I’m coaching somebody around, they’re relating. If I want more intimacy, the number one requirement of intimacy is safety. So am I providing safety for intimacy? Am I curious about the other person?

Am I willing to go first? Will I be the change that I wish to see in how I’m relating? So classic, isn’t it, and it all fits together? So, just super, super grateful that everything led up to that moment? And indeed, what blossoms.

Alexandra: Oh, gorgeous. We’ve mentioned your books a few times. And one of the things I wanted to ask about was the writing process. You mentioned there that some of them were writing over a long period of time. Tell us about it, just tell us about that.

What you enjoy about writing? What motivates you that thing to share what you seePhil: whatever’s alive, energy, I can be inspired by BS. In fact, I’ve written about being inspired by BS. It’s lonely, like really, whatever is alive. And there are some things I published a book, just poetry. I had this moment one day.

It was, I think it was, about 3:30 In the afternoon when I thought to myself, I wonder if I’ve got enough poetry to publish a poetry book. And so I then started getting stuff together. And by the following morning, that was published on Amazon. I’d just put it all together, put a cover, and whatever.

I can talk about that, like, with my clients who say, Oh, I’d love to publish a book, but it would take too long. Okay, we can do it in less than 24 hours if we want to, so that some of that poetry has just I can read it. In fact, Facebook’s memory sometimes just reminds me I can read stuff that I’ve read.

Oh, wow. And I can even see stuff in it deeper that I didn’t see when I was writing. It says that cliché thing about writing this stuff that can come through us like the genius, the true self, spirit, whatever names we want to use, there’s that there’s some writing that I’m really opinionated.

Just like my dad, I’m really opinionated about stuff. The difference that’s happened is I have a very casual, very light, humorous, amusing relationship with my opinions.

Because I can see that they’re not they’re not correct. That’s all they are. They’re just my opinions. But their stuff, I can feel energized about that. I will right and can be in a bit of a rant, I did something quite recently, actually, about some aspects of the coaching profession. So that was genuine.

And here’s the thing writing becomes just really the vehicle of expression. I noticed that there are times when I tried to write never worked out very well. I can, and in fact, a friend of mine reflected back to me exactly that it’s some of your writing is just like mind-blowing. And then I can hear saying, I can tell occasionally I see something your yours. I think you’ve tried with the hammer. You tried to drive to make a point.

So there isn’t a single reason why, right? It just happens. And in a way, I feel five my books a bit of a cheat because I say Well, I haven’t written any books. I’ve written stuff and the stuff that’s in those books I published elsewhere, predominantly on social media, and sometimes I written for online magazines a few times, and then I’ve just, like, collated stuff, put it together, and put it in a book. Interesting.

I’m noticing now there are two books that I do have in progress. And I’m like determined not to publish that stuff. I’m going to write a book, and it’s not going as well, and not finding that so easy. So I have to like to ease up on that and just let the writing flow. So writing is not really something I do. It’s something I allow

Alexandra: Lovely. That’s well said.

I was in Portland, Oregon, recently with Michael Neill and Barbara Patterson. And Michael has just published Mavis Karn’s first book. And so he told a little story there. He said he went to her and said, Mavis, I’d love for you to write a book and share your wisdom and that thing. And she said, I don’t know how to write a book; there’s no way.

And he said, no, but you know how to write letters. And so that’s was referring, of course, with her most famous letter to the children, the boys in prison. And that’s a collection of her letters, it’s lovely. It’s a really nice and really nice book. So we’re just about running out of time here.

I do want to ask you about Bali, and what drew you there, and what keeps you there?Phil: I moved into an apartment in Ipswich in England. I woke up one day and realized I didn’t want to be in my marriage anymore. I’ve been divorced twice. And I was just so clear. So I moved into an apartment. I had what would look like the dream life, be a huge house, fast cars, eating at restaurants, and whatever.

And I had enough of it, I didn’t even want a garden. So it’s like there was this, I went from this huge life to this small move into this apartment, just for six months until I work out what I want to do with the rest of my life. And I was there for nine and a half years. It became a bit of a joke. Anyway, so Bali came up in a conversation with a friend. There were a few things that happened.

And again, there’s not a single answer to this. The predominant thing was that actually, there’s two aspects to moving to Bali; there’s a moving away from England, there was some friendships that had evolved to this or perhaps should come to completion would be much the most kind way of saying. These are long-term friendships to 20 odd years, 30 odd years.

We change, right? We evolve. And it just became really clear, okay, these friendships are complete. And so what was keeping me in England, other than family, and what have you? There was less of that. And, there was this thing in me that I’d always talked about it moving to somewhere warmer.

And then, I had a friendship with my partner. For a number of years, actually, we met in a Facebook group. It might have even been a Michael Neill group, by the way, so we’ve been friends for a while. And then, in early 2019, this friendship, we just became more in that we were sharing more, talking more.

And then we bumped into this point of like, well, we don’t know if we want to cross this particular line. It was never any, like, flirtatious stuff, but there was a lot of love and affection there. I just felt like there’s more to explore.

So I came to Bali predominantly to get away from perhaps some sadness, quite frankly, of things that had completed in England, and to meet this beautiful young lady who I am now in this life partnership with. I mean, that’s been very, very bumpy. But, there are the reasons really twofold the away from and the towards.

Alexandra: Wow, so interesting. And there is a section in Tasting Mangoes where you talk about the, for lack of a better way to put the pros and cons of Bali. The mosquitoes versus the nice warm evenings, the water versus the weather, the fresh fruit. So I guess that goes with anywhere we live.

Phil: I did that like, again, looking for a place that I could pour called Paradise. And I’m not really convinced it exists. But I definitely see that there’s a state of mind that that feels like paradise. But like all states of mind. It’s not permanent and is transient. Right?

Alexandra: As we wrap up, is there anything you’d like to share that we haven’t touched on yet?Phil: I think we have touched on it. But I do want to labor the point because I invite people to really look at just how much time we are spending resisting what really are very natural aspects of being human. And what might happen, what might be available to us, what experience of life might be available to us.

If we just let up on some resistance. So here’s the thing. I know she won’t mind me sharing with you. It’s anonymous, but somebody I know has experienced what we would call a betrayal. And so she was telling me on a call, I hate him. I feel like I hate him. And I don’t want to.

And I simply said, Well, to me, under those circumstances, it feels like having those feelings of hatred is perfectly natural. And, yet, by then telling yourself while resisting that, it’s like you’re torturing yourself twice. How about you allow yourself to hate him to the best of your ability to feel that hatred to the best of your ability? We both laughed at this.

But, like, that’s the same, really, with any feeling that we have. How about if we really allow that, if we really allow us to feel that to the best of our ability, like none of our feelings really need a coping strategy? They all really do pass.

So, that’s what I just really invite people to look at to see what’s it like to stop resisting being human. And once again, love arises in the absence of resistance. I just invite people to consider what it’d be like to love being human.

Alexandra: Where can we find out more about you and your work?Phil: I’m mostly active on Facebook. And people can find my profile, I set up a domain, which will just take you to my profile. FBPhil.com can just take you to my Facebook profile, you can just follow me, I’m getting close to a Facebook friends list.

So I might not accept a friend request. But you can certainly follow me and engage there. My very out-of-date website, there’s my podcasts on there. PhilG.com. And my email address is on my website.

I’m always delighted to hear from people if they’ve read something of mine that’s touched them or even if they don’t, if they don’t like it. I’m also happy to hear from them.

Alexandra: That’s generous of you. Thank you so much, Phil, for being on the show. I really appreciate it.

Phil: Thank you. I thoroughly enjoyed talking with you. I’ve liked being this side of the whole podcast set up, so thank you very much. Thank you. Good.

Alexandra: Oh, you’re very welcome. Take care. Bye.

Featured image photo by Melissa Askew on Unsplash

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