Contact Center Show: Recent Episodes
Amas Tenumah & Bob Furniss
This is the public square for all things contact center. This is where the world’s best Call & Contact center professionals come to get better at delivering a great experience for customers.
Your contact center mentors - Amas Tenumah & Bob Furniss
AI was supposed to replace contact center workers. Instead, there are more people working in contact centers today than there were at the beginning of the year.
That does not mean AI failed. In many areas, it has exceeded expectations.
In this season finale, Amas and Bob examine what they got right, what changed their minds, and what contact center leaders should expect next. They discuss why AI is changing frontline work rather than eliminating it, how automation is exposing leadership failures, and why the agents who remain will handle increasingly difficult work.
They also explore where AI is already delivering—particularly in quality assurance, knowledge management, and customer self-service—and why even impressive bots still fail when companies deny them the information or authority required to solve real problems.
The next phase will not be about acquiring more technology. It will be about managing what companies have already bought, determining where humans still matter, and separating genuine guidance from vendors selling both the product and the consulting required to make it work.
Plus, Amas and Bob revisit their position on customer surveys, predict the issues that will dominate the rest of the year, and reflect on The Contact Center Show’s rise to number 22 among Apple’s management podcasts.
In this episode:
- Why AI has changed contact center jobs without eliminating them
- What Bob learned from two very different AI service experiences
- Why better automation creates harder work for human agents
- How weak bots expose leadership, data, and authority problems
- Where AI has exceeded expectations
- Why customer surveys may still have value when used to develop agents
- The growing importance of AI management and governance
- Why technology companies are becoming consulting companies
- The danger of buying more features than an organization can use
- What The Contact Center Show should tackle next season
The Contact Center Show will return at the end of September. Until then, explore the archive and send Amas or Bob your feedback on LinkedIn.
In this episode, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss explore the evolving landscape of customer service, tiered service models, and the role of technology in delivering personalized experiences. They discuss how companies can strategically implement paid and differentiated service levels to enhance customer satisfaction and operational efficiency.
takeaways
Companies should consider tiered service models to meet diverse customer needs.
Charging for premium support can recoup costs and improve service quality.
Operational execution of tiered support requires careful planning and training.
Technology enables effective routing and personalized service levels.
Customer expectations vary based on loyalty and payment for support.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and casual chat about sports
4222:10:50 Pivot to service: Should companies charge for attended support?
6972:11:09 Examples of tiered service in airlines and hospitality
9388:51:23 Consumer perspective on paying for better service
11916:38:11 Operational challenges of implementing tiered support
15472:11:43 Technology solutions for differentiated customer routing
215277:45:28 Historical context of tiered service in business
227499:58:49 Recommendations for adopting tiered service models
279166:39:06 Operational considerations and workforce planning
353611:06:28 Ensuring customer satisfaction and avoiding queue degradation
375277:46:37 Closing remarks and World Cup discussion
Customer surveys were once the backbone of quality programs. Today, response rates are collapsing, customers are ignoring them, and contact centers are left wondering how to measure performance without reliable feedback.
Fresh from Customer Contact Week in Las Vegas, Amas shares a conversation that kept coming up among industry leaders: transactional surveys are failing. Some organizations have seen response rates drop nearly 90%, creating real problems for coaching, quality scoring, bonuses, and operational decision-making.
Bob and Amas explore:
- Why surveys became the default measure of customer experience.
- Whether survey fatigue has finally reached a breaking point.
- Why AI-powered quality monitoring may be replacing traditional Voice of the Customer programs.
- The hidden flaw in most customer surveys.
- How changing who the feedback is for—from the company to the individual agent—can dramatically improve participation.
The conversation also tackles a bigger question: if customers are giving you their time and feedback, what responsibility do companies have to actually use it?
If your contact center still depends on post-interaction surveys, this episode is a timely look at what comes next.
The more important question might be: why are we still struggling with the same training problems we've had for twenty years?
In this episode, we tackle a challenge facing nearly every contact center: new hire training that produces high attrition, slow ramp times, and inconsistent performance.
The conversation started with a client losing roughly half of its new hires during training and another portion during nesting. Despite new technology, the outcomes felt painfully familiar.
We explored some uncomfortable questions:
- Are organizations hiring the right people for the job?
- Do recruiters actually understand the roles they're filling?
- Are training programs teaching agents what to know instead of how to find answers?
- Why are contact centers still trying to memorize information that changes every few weeks?
- How much time do leaders spend observing their own training programs?
Bob argues that many training failures begin before day one, with hiring processes that prioritize filling seats instead of finding the right fit.
We also discuss one of the biggest missed opportunities in modern training:
AI is changing how agents work, but many training organizations haven't changed how they train.
As AI-powered knowledge systems, agent assist tools, and automation become standard, training leaders need a seat at the table. Yet in many organizations, training teams are disconnected from the technology decisions that will fundamentally reshape agent performance.
One of the biggest insights from the discussion:
The real opportunity isn't using AI to automate training.
It's using AI to automate the things training used to spend time on so trainers can focus on the skills that matter most:
- Building rapport
- Problem solving
- Judgment
- De-escalation
- Relationship-building
- Handling difficult conversations
Technology changes.
The fundamentals don't.
Topics discussed:
- Why new hire attrition remains so high
- Hiring mistakes that create training failures
- Teaching agents how to find answers versus memorizing answers
- The role of nesting and floor support
- Why training content quickly becomes obsolete
- The disconnect between training teams and AI initiatives
- Agent assist and the future of onboarding
- Tough skills versus technical skills
- Why fundamentals still matter in modern contact centers
- How AI should reshape training priorities
Bob just returned from Italy with a story that should make every customer service leader pay attention.
At train stations in Venice and Florence, there were no employees to help. Just kiosks. If you wanted a ticket, you figured it out yourself. If you had a question, there was nobody to ask. It wasn't a glimpse of the future. It was the present.
That experience led us into a bigger discussion about AI, automation, and what customer service becomes when human interaction disappears.
We unpacked a recent Anthropic report showing that customer service roles have some of the highest exposure to AI-driven task automation. But exposure to tasks is not the same as elimination of jobs.
The deeper question is this:
Is customer service simply a collection of transactions, or is it fundamentally about relationships?
We discussed real-world results from an enterprise deployment of agentic AI where:
- Escalation rates were 4x higher when customers interacted with AI versus humans.
- Customers were significantly more likely to demand supervisors from bots.
- Contact volume increased by 50% in less than six months.
- Companies discovered that delivering bad news remains far more effective when done by a human.
History suggests that new channels rarely reduce demand. Email didn't reduce contacts. ATMs didn't eliminate bank tellers. They changed the nature of the work.
AI may do the same.
At the same time, organizations are racing toward automation while learning that token costs, increased interactions, and customer behavior may complicate the promised economics.
The technology is arriving at bullet-train speed.
The question is no longer whether AI is coming.
The question is:
Who are you in an AI-first world?
Will your company become a vending machine that happens to sell products?
Or will you intentionally preserve the human elements that create trust, loyalty, and relationships?
Because customer relationship management was never supposed to become customer technology management.
Topics discussed:
- Anthropic's AI exposure findings
- Why task automation doesn't automatically eliminate jobs
- The difference between transactional and relational service
- Real-world lessons from agentic AI deployments
- Rising escalation rates with AI interactions
- The hidden cost of token consumption
- Why customers treat bots differently than humans
- The future role of human agents
- How leaders should rethink customer service strategy in an AI-first era
AI hype is colliding with operational reality. A shoe company gains $127M in value by saying “AI,” while contact center leaders are told their entire model is obsolete. The shift from CCaaS to “Customer Experience Automation” reframes everything: not just support, but marketing, sales, and service collapsing into one AI-driven layer.
The problem: the foundation is broken. Knowledge is fragmented. Customer data is duplicated. Organizations are misaligned.
This episode dissects the gap between what the industry is promising and what companies can actually execute—and why customer service leaders are about to become the last line of defense when it fails.
Key Quotes
- “Customer experience automation just means AI is now the one doing the talking.”
- “Your human agents can’t find the right answers today—but now the AI is supposed to?”
- “This isn’t a technology problem. It’s an organizational problem.”
- “If this fails, customer service cleans it up. Again.”
- “The train is moving. You either help steer it or get run over by it.”
Practical Takeaways
- Stop debating AI capability. Start fixing knowledge.
- Treat data quality as a blocking issue, not a backlog item.
- Force alignment between marketing, sales, and service before automation.
- Assume AI will act autonomously—and design safeguards accordingly.
- Position customer service as the control layer, not the endpoint.
Exploring the future of AI in customer service, the role of agents, and how technology is transforming contact centers.
AI in customer service
The role of human agents vs. bots
Generative AI and workflow orchestration
Implications for contact center staffing
Future trends in AI and automation
00:00 Introduction and Guest Credibility
01:04 The Reality of AI Agents Today
01:43 AI as a Smart Assistant in Customer Calls
02:35 Agent Interaction and Human Oversight
03:34 Issuing Credits and Automation in Calls
04:56 Differences from Past AI Systems
05:24 Generative AI and Workflow Orchestration
06:38 Automating Routine Tasks with API Calls
07:21 Focusing on Customer Conversations
08:30 The Future Role of Human Agents
09:18 The Next Generation of AI in Customer Support
09:58 Scaling AI and Multiple Conversations
10:57 Supervising Bots and AI Agents
11:51 AI in Escalations and Approvals
12:30 The Impact on Contact Center Staffing
13:25 New Entrants and Innovation in AI
14:30 Channels and Self-Service in the Future
15:22 Transitioning from Live Agents to Digital Support
15:53 Industry Trends and CFO Expectations
16:14 Implications for Workforce and Business Models
17:08 The Economics of AI and Customer Support
18:28 Preparing for the AI-Driven Contact Center
19:35 Historical Context and Future Predictions
20:15 Limitations and Realities of AI Adoption
21:09 Customer Behavior and AI Impact
22:04 Self-Service and Customer Expectations
22:50 The Extent of AI Automation
23:17 The Role of Technology in Customer Support
24:43 Amazon’s Approach to Automation
25:36 Limitations of Current AI Models
26:36 Decision-Making Boundaries for AI
27:04 The Human Element in AI-Driven Support
28:15 Closing Remarks and Future Outlook
This episode explores the transformative impact of AI on quality assurance (QA) in contact centers. Hosts Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss how AI is revolutionizing call monitoring, evaluation, and coaching, emphasizing practical steps for leaders to leverage this technology effectively.
00:00 Introduction to QA in Contact Centers
00:51 The Impact of AI on Quality Assurance
03:50 Revolutionizing QA Processes
09:09 Shifting Perspectives on QA Monitoring
12:39 Leveraging AI for Enhanced Coaching
17:40 The Future of QA in an AI-Driven World
"You can listen to 100% of calls now"
"AI can help identify patterns and issues"
"Show the value your QA team delivers"
Exploring the evolution and challenges of Omnichannel strategies in customer service, from early concepts to current practices. Insights from industry veterans Bob Furniss and Amas Tenumah on what works, what doesn't, and how to focus on the most impactful channels. key topics
Origins of Omnichannel in 2010
Challenges in integrating multiple channels
The importance of focusing on top channels
Customer expectations vs. technological capabilities
Lessons learned from industry experiences
Chapters
00:00 The Origins of Omnichannel
05:20 Challenges in Implementing Omnichannel Strategies
10:09 Finding Focus in Omnichannel Efforts
14:43 The Future of Customer Interaction
key topics
summary
In this episode, Bob Furniss and Amas Tenumah explore the roles and goals of supervisors in contact centers, emphasizing coaching, relationship-building, and strategic management. They share practical tips for setting goals, managing time, and developing future leaders.
Goals and metrics for supervisors
Time management and coaching focus
Building relationships with team and leadership
Mentoring future leaders in contact centers
Strategic management at the director level
sound bites
"Make people think for themselves"
"Be the evangelist for your contact center"
"Spend time in books and learning"
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Remote Supervision Challenges
02:24 Setting Goals as a Supervisor
05:05 Coaching and Development Focus
07:47 Managing Up: Supervisor and Manager Dynamics
10:46 Building Relationships with Management
13:16 Transitioning to Managerial Goals
15:56 Efficiency vs. Effectiveness in Management
18:38 The Importance of Relationships in Leadership
21:22 Continuous Learning and Development
summary
This episode features a deep dive into contact center KPIs, exploring their flaws and how to measure customer experience effectively. Hosts Amas Tenumah and Bob Furness challenge industry norms and share practical insights for improving contact center performance.
key topics
Flaws in common KPIs like FCR, Service Level, NPS
The importance of standardized measurement
How to interpret and act on KPI data
Practical tips for contact center improvement
resources
Contact Center Metrics Best Practices - https://example.com/contact-center-metrics
Net Promoter Score (NPS) Explained - https://example.com/nps-explained
Standardizing Contact Center KPIs - https://example.com/kpi-standardization
Summary
In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the complexities of performance management, particularly focusing on forced distribution and its implications on employee evaluation and coaching. They explore alternative approaches to performance evaluation that prioritize individual performance over comparative scoring, emphasizing the importance of quality conversations in coaching. The discussion highlights the detrimental effects of scoring systems on employee morale and the need for a shift in focus towards meaningful feedback and development.
Forced distribution can hinder team dynamics and employee morale.
Performance should be evaluated based on individual contributions, not relative rankings.
Coaching conversations should focus on quality and empathy rather than scores.
Removing scores from evaluations can lead to more productive discussions.
HR policies often prioritize consistency over individual performance nuances.
Employees are aware of compensation disparities and may leverage offers from competitors.
Quality conversations can improve coaching outcomes significantly.
The focus should be on the overall experience rather than just numerical scores.
Feedback mechanisms should be separated from compensation discussions.
A shift in focus can lead to better employee engagement and performance.
In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the intricacies of performance reviews, emphasizing the importance of coaching and effective feedback. They introduce the YMCA methodology as a framework for coaching conversations, highlighting the need for ongoing dialogue and employee ownership in the performance management process. The discussion also touches on the significance of crucial conversations in fostering a productive work environment.
Takeaways
Performance reviews should not contain surprises for employees.
Coaching is essential for success in contact centers.
The YMCA methodology helps structure coaching conversations.
Effective feedback requires understanding the employee's perspective.
Managers should focus on building relationships through dialogue.
Crucial conversations are necessary for employee development.
Setting clear expectations is vital for performance management.
Follow-up is essential to ensure accountability and progress.
Employees should feel empowered to own their performance issues.
The coaching framework can be applied in various contexts, including personal relationships.
Sound bites
"We need you there at nine o'clock."
"I never fired anyone in my entire career."
"It works for your kids too."
Chapters
00:00 Winter Weather and Performance Reviews
01:07 The Importance of Coaching in Performance Reviews
04:05 Effective Feedback and Coaching Frameworks
06:01 The YMCA Methodology for Coaching Conversations
11:32 Calibrating Expectations and Actions
17:01 Crucial Conversations and Employee Ownership
Summary
In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the implications of AI in quality assurance within contact centers. They explore the benefits of AI, such as increased coverage and trend spotting, while also addressing concerns about accuracy and the potential for AI to replace human interaction. The discussion emphasizes the importance of using AI to enhance human capabilities rather than eliminate them, and the need for effective coaching and data utilization to improve agent performance.
Main Content:
Understanding AI in Quality Assurance
The podcast opens with a light-hearted discussion about the weather, but it quickly shifts focus to a pressing topic: the use of AI in quality assurance. Amas and Bob agree that deploying AI in this area can be beneficial, especially regarding monitoring agent performance. One of the primary advantages they mention is the ability to achieve 100% call coverage. Traditionally, QA teams may only review a small percentage of calls, leading to inaccurate assessments of agent performance. With AI, contact centers can analyze every call, providing a more accurate picture of quality and performance.
Spotting Trends and Gaining Insights
Another significant benefit of AI mentioned in the podcast is its capability to spot trends in customer interactions. Bob highlights the importance of understanding call spikes, such as the recent increase in calls related to a coupon offer. AI can analyze large data sets quickly, allowing managers to respond to customer needs more effectively. This capability not only improves the customer experience but also empowers managers to make informed decisions based on real-time data.
The Risks of Relying Solely on AI
While Amas and Bob are enthusiastic about the potential of AI, they also express concern over its limitations. One critical issue is the accuracy of AI assessments. Amas warns that AI systems are often trained on human data, which can lead to discrepancies in scoring calls. He emphasizes the need for a human touch in QA processes, suggesting that AI should assist rather than replace human judgment. Without human oversight, there's a risk that AI can misinterpret nuances in customer-agent interactions, leading to misguided conclusions.
The Importance of Human Interaction
The conversation takes a deeper turn as they discuss the nature of customer service as a human interaction. Bob argues that technology should enhance the capabilities of QA teams, not eliminate them. He points out that while AI can streamline processes, it cannot replicate the empathy and understanding that a human agent brings to a conversation. The hosts advocate for a balanced approach where AI tools are used to support agents rather than replace them, ensuring that customer experiences remain positive and personalized.
Conclusion:
In conclusion, while AI presents exciting opportunities for enhancing quality assurance in contact centers, it is essential to approach its implementation with caution. Amas and Bob remind us that technology should complement human skills and insights rather than undermine them. By finding the right balance, organizations can leverage AI to improve performance while maintaining the human touch that is vital in customer service.
Key Takeaways:
1. AI can enhance quality assurance by providing 100% call coverage and spotting trends in customer interactions.
2. The accuracy of AI assessments can be problematic; human oversight is crucial in the QA process.
3. Customer service is fundamentally a human interaction, and technology should support, not replace, human agents.
Tags: AI, Quality Assurance, Contact Centers, Customer Service, Technology, Human Interaction, Trends in Customer Experience, Agent Performance, Podcast Insights
Summary
In this episode, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss delve into the current state of Software as a Service (SaaS) and its intersection with artificial intelligence (AI), particularly in the context of contact centers. They discuss the recent downturn in stock prices for major SaaS companies like Salesforce and ServiceNow, attributing this to Wall Street's skepticism about the actual impact of AI on these platforms. Amas expresses concern that the hype surrounding AI is outpacing the reality of its implementation, suggesting that many companies are not yet ready to fully embrace AI-driven solutions. Bob echoes this sentiment, emphasizing the importance of expertise and experience in successfully implementing these technologies.
AI hype is ahead of customer readiness.
Wall Street is skeptical about SaaS companies' future.
Vibe coding may not replace the need for expertise.
Experience in implementation outweighs potential of new tech.
Both extremes of AI adoption are currently inaccurate.
Sound bites
"Service now stock hasn't been this cheap in like four years."
"There's two different stories going on here."
"Both extremes are wrong today."
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Current Market Overview
00:53 The Impact of AI on SaaS Companies
03:42 Building vs. Buying: The New Paradigm
07:18 Navigating Contract Renewals and New Technologies
10:49 The Future of AI in the Contact Center Industry
13:38 Conclusion and Key Takeaways
Most customer experience goals are meaningless. In this episode, Bob Furniss and Amas Tenumah dismantle the way contact centers set annual CX metrics and explain why leaders keep optimizing numbers that customers neither notice nor value.
Using insights from a John Goodman article on CX goal-setting, the conversation exposes the disconnect between executives, customers, and frontline teams—and why automation, deflection, and "respectable" percentage improvements often make service worse, not better.
This episode is about shifting from internally convenient metrics to customer-impactful outcomes.
What You'll Hear * Why CX goals are often chosen because they sound reasonable, not because they solve customer problems * How executives chase a single "magic number" instead of understanding service complexity * The fundamental incentive gap between customers and senior leadership * Why customers and frontline agents are aligned—but executives aren't * How automation and bots optimize company metrics while frustrating customers * Where AI actually helps: analyzing volume, root causes, and systemic friction * Why average metrics (ASA, AHT) distort reality and reward the wrong behavior * How poor goal-setting punishes leaders who successfully automate the "easy" work * The risk of letting someone else define your goals if you don't take control * A real-world example of automation done right—and how bad metrics mislabel it as failure
Key Takeaways * Vanity metrics don't fix customer experience * Deflection and containment may look good internally while actively harming trust * CX leaders must own the narrative or be trapped chasing numbers they don't believe in * AI should surface customer pain, not just reduce contact volume * Goals should reflect customer outcomes, not executive convenience
Resources Mentioned * John Goodman's article on CX goal-setting (referenced in discussion) * HOLD: The Suffering Economy of Customer Service by Amas Tenumah
+ Available on Amazon
+ Signed copies at waitingforservice.com
Who This Episode Is For * Contact center and CX leaders setting 2026 goals * Executives relying on NPS, ASA, AHT, or deflection as proxies for success * Practitioners tired of fixing the wrong problems * Anyone responsible for explaining service performance to leadership
2025 predictions — graded AI-powered knowledge Bob's 2025 prediction: AI would dramatically improve knowledge in contact centers.
Result: Early but mostly wrong.
The technology moved, but the data did not. Knowledge bases were too fragmented, too dirty, and too poorly governed for AI to meaningfully improve frontline work. The industry instead spent another year chasing bots, automation, and surface-level "AI assistants."
Grade: C+
The failure was not AI. It was the state of enterprise knowledge.
Remote work reversal Bob's 2025 prediction: Work-from-home would shrink and revert toward pre-COVID norms.
Result: Correct.
Remote and hybrid work has fallen to within five percentage points of pre-COVID levels. Companies quietly reversed course not because it helped customers or employees, but because leadership never learned how to manage distributed teams.
Hybrid was the worst of both worlds: frontline leaders juggling physical rooms, video calls, and dashboards without the training or structure to do any of it well.
Grade: A
Why remote work collapsed The reversal was not ideological. It was operational.
Executives defaulted back to what felt controllable: physical presence. Organizations refused to do the hard work of re-engineering leadership, coaching, quality management, and accountability for a distributed workforce. They solved a people problem with proximity.
Amas' prediction for 2026 Voice comes back.
Digital channels absorbed most of the AI hype: chat, bots, messaging, and self-service. But customers never stopped calling. Voice is where frustration spikes, where trust is tested, and where automation breaks down.
Amas' call:
2026 will be the year voice reasserts itself as the center of the customer relationship — and the CCaaS market will look radically different by 2027 because of it.
Bob's prediction for 2026 Data becomes the bottleneck.
AI will only become useful where it has access to clean, structured, reliable data. The industry rushed into AI before fixing the foundations: knowledge, case data, call logs, customer history, and operational context.
2026 will be the year contact centers slow down, audit their data, and rebuild the plumbing that AI actually runs on.
No data. No intelligence.
What the industry is claiming Analysts and vendors are promising three things for 2026:
• Predictive and proactive service
• Agent empowerment through AI
• Fewer humans in contact centers
Bob and Amas reject the third and remain skeptical of the first two without structural change. The hype assumes AI will replace labor. Reality says AI will expose how broken the systems around labor really are.
Amas' 2026 wish Stop calling software "agents."
For twenty years, "agent" meant a human being doing emotional, cognitive, and relational labor. Rebranding bots as agents erases the workforce and confuses accountability.
Language shapes power. That battle matters.
Bob's 2026 wish Focus on the employee.
AI should not be used to replace people. It should be used to remove friction from their work: searching, documenting, switching systems, hunting for answers. Knowledge was always the real use case. The industry just skipped the hard part.
Core takeaway 2025 proved that AI without data, governance, and human-centered design does not transform anything. It only adds noise.
2026 will reward the companies that stop chasing demos and start rebuilding the foundations: voice, knowledge, data, and frontline enablement.
That is where the real disruption will come from.
Amas Tenumah explains why customer service is not "broken" but intentionally designed to fail. Drawing on decades inside contact centers, historical research, and real corporate incentives, he argues that long waits, deflection, and automation-first strategies are features—not bugs. The conversation dismantles common CX myths, challenges executive complacency, and frames consumer behavior as the only force capable of triggering real change.
Core Themes * The Suffering Economy of Customer Service:
When service is universally bad across industries, it's systemic. Incentives—not incompetence—drive outcomes.
* Why This Is a "How Dare You" Book:
The indictment is aimed squarely at executives who treat service as a cost center while overfunding marketing narratives.
* Marketing Replaced Service as Trust Mechanism:
Historically, service was marketing. Industrialized marketing severed that link, allowing companies to tolerate bad service and buy growth instead.
* Metrics That Poison Service:
Deflection, containment, and avoidance KPIs reward companies for not talking to customers—while punishing leaders who try to deliver what customers actually want.
* Wait Times Are Engineered:
Hold times are budgeted, modeled, and accepted. They are designed friction, not operational accidents.
* AI as Distance, Not Salvation:
AI is currently deployed to protect companies from customers, not customers from friction. It scales avoidance unless incentives change.
* Executives Don't Experience Their Own Service:
Many leaders despise customer service—just not their own. Forcing executives to call their own 1-800 numbers is revelatory and uncomfortable.
* The Revolt Is Consumer-Led:
Change will not come from CX professionals alone. It comes when consumers punish bad service with their wallets and reward companies that respect their time.
Notable Moments * The opening story of the 1750 BC clay tablet complaint—the first recorded customer service grievance—reads like a modern Amazon review. * The Chipotle refund anecdote exposes time theft: hours of customer labor to recover trivial amounts of money. * The contrast between automation done for customers versus automation used to avoid them.
Practical Takeaways * For Consumers:
Vote with your wallet. Pay slightly more. Wait one more day. Call customer service before you buy big-ticket items.
* For Service Leaders:
If your CEO doesn't believe in service as value creation, your job is to change their mind—or change jobs. Data plus customer stories are the leverage.
* For Executives:
Service is deferred revenue protection. Treating it purely as cost is strategic malpractice.
Resources Mentioned * Book: HOLD: The Suffering Economy of Customer Service — And the Revolt That's Long Overdue * Signed Copies & Tools: waitingforservice.com
+ Consumer scripts
+ Cancellation guides
+ Practitioner playbooks
+ No email required
Summary
The conversation explores the integration of AI in sales, focusing on how it enhances customer engagement and improves sales efficiency. Bob Furniss discusses the importance of using data to empower salespeople rather than reducing their numbers, emphasizing a customer-centric approach to AI in sales.
Takeaways
AI can enhance customer engagement in sales.
The focus should be on empowering salespeople with data.
AI is not just about reducing costs but improving efficiency.
Sales strategies should prioritize customer needs.
Data-driven insights can lead to better sales outcomes.
AI can make sales calls faster and smarter.
The role of AI is to support, not replace, sales personnel.
Understanding customer needs is crucial in sales.
AI tools should be designed to assist sales processes.
The future of sales lies in the integration of technology and human touch.
Summary
In this conversation, Amas Tenumah, Bob Furniss and Brad Cleveland discusses the three levels of value that contact centers create: efficiency, customer satisfaction and loyalty, and strategic insights provided by AI. He emphasizes the importance of these levels in improving products, services, and processes.
Takeaways
there's three levels of value that contact centers create
Level one is efficiency
customer satisfaction, loyalty, if we do a good job
it's the strategic insight that AI can provide
it can still tell us, hey, here's a trend I'm seeing
Here's an opportunity to improve products and services
AI doesn't have to be perfect to provide value
Strategic insights can drive business improvements
Understanding trends is crucial for growth
Contact centers play a vital role in customer experience
Titles
Unlocking Value in Contact Centers
The Role of AI in Customer Service
Sound bites
"Level one is efficiency"
"customer satisfaction, loyalty, if we do a good job"
"it's the strategic insight that AI can provide"
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to the Contact Center Show
00:27 AI and Its Impact on Customer Interactions
00:31 Future Jobs in the Contact Center Industry
Low-Cost, High-Impact CX Improvements The Power of Language:
- Transform "I can't" into "How can we"
- Shift from "I have to" to "We get to"
- Being "impeccable with your word" (inspired by The Four Agreements)
- Words trigger emotional responses that shape customer perception
Getting CX Buy-In Across Organizations The Alignment Problem:
- CX initiatives fail when metrics aren't shared across departments
- Success came when executives adopted the same CX metrics as the CX team
- Without shared goals, customer insights get shelved with "we'll get to it later"
The Pilot Program Strategy:
- Start small before asking for big budgets
- Show proof of concept with intentional, measurable pilots
- Use success to rally and align different areas of the company
Real Example - CX Day Success:
- Introduced first-ever CX Day celebration at 145-year-old engineering company
- Started small despite skepticism
- Now an annual tradition that continues after her departure
Rethinking CX Metrics Beyond Traditional Measurements:
- NPS and effort scores are starting points, not endpoints
- "Satisfaction" is no longer good enough (it's the equivalent of "fine")
- New focus: Emotional altitude across every touchpoint
The Emotional Impact:
- Brains constantly cycle between thinking and feeling
- Emotions create lasting imprints that shape brand perception
- Research shows: 12 positive experiences needed to overcome 1 negative
- Measure emotional highs to identify gaps and successes
The Four Rs of CX Impact:
- Revenue
- Retention
- Reputation
- Referrals
The Future of Contact Centers Human + AI Integration:
- Smart companies intentionally map where humans add value vs. where AI should handle interactions
- The answer is "both/and" not "either/or"
- Critical: Validate designs with real customers, not just internal teams
The Contact Center Superpower:
- Contact center teams speak to more customers in a week than other departments do in a year
- This proximity to customers gives agents unique power to be organizational change agents
- Voice of customer insights should inform product development, marketing messaging, and more
Words Matter in the AI Era:
- Example: Website offering "24/7 support, our guides are happy to help you"
- "Guides" for both humans and AI feels impersonal
- Naming and framing still matters
The Power of Customer Voice The 10-Minute Video Story: A contact center leader captured customer feedback about a failed new product. At an executive meeting, he played a 10-minute compilation of customer complaints.
- The CEO's initial advisor said it was a career-ending mistake
- The CEO walked out during the video
- Result: CEO returned and said it was "the best 10 minutes anybody's ever played" and named him employee #1
- Customer voice changed the company's trajectory
The Validation Imperative:
- Internal perspective isn't enough
- Customer validation must be iterative, not one-time
- Can't use internal team as proxy for outside voice
- Both internal knowledge AND customer validation matter
The Fundamental C-Suite Challenge When C-suite leaders aren't aligned in their meetings, misalignment trickles down through the entire organization. This is the root problem preventing effective CX implementation.
Notable Stories The Morgan & Morgan Tattoo Story: Leadership promised to get company logo tattoos if the team hit an unprecedented conversion rate goal. When they achieved it, 40 leaders got matching tattoos - four tattoo artists came in for the day. The question became: "Is your brand tattoo-worthy?"
Stacey's Podcast Origin: Bought her first microphone for under $50, then waited six months before taking it out of the box due to fear. That mic ignited her journey to intentionally sharing her voice through podcasting.
Living Podcasting: At the conference, Stacey pulled out her mic to record a 10-minute session where Amas (who has Parkinson's) gave direct advice to her relative with a similar condition - creating immediate, personal value rather than secondhand communication.
Takeaways for Contact Center Leaders 1. Language shapes reality - Small word changes create emotional shifts in customer experience 2. Demand metric alignment - CX can't succeed unless executives share the same measurements 3. Start with pilots - Prove value small-scale before requesting major investment 4. Leverage your proximity to customers - Use it to become the organizational glue and change agent 5. Validate everything with real customers - Internal assumptions aren't enough 6. Map the human-AI journey intentionally - Design where each adds value, then test with customers 7. Bring customer voice to leadership - Sometimes the most powerful thing is making them listen directly 8. Average isn't acceptable - Move beyond satisfaction to creating emotional highs
Episode Summary Broadcasting live from the ICMI conference in Orlando, Amas and Bob discuss the evolving role of AI in contact centers, the ongoing struggle for strategic recognition, and welcome special guest Bianca, who shares her unique perspective on running HR as a contact center at Michigan State University.
Host: Bob Furniss (without co-host Amos)
Guest: Daniel Thomas, Informa
Location: ICMI Conference Expo Floor
Guest Background * Daniel Thomas approaches contact center industry from a research background * Surveys audiences and writes research reports * Has "front row seat" to industry transformation * Conducts the annual State of the Contact Center survey
About the State of the Contact Center Report * Comprehensive benchmark study surveying contact center professionals * Covers multiple verticals including: + Training and skills + Compensation and salary + Technology use + Leadership perceptions + Strategy * Tracks year-over-year progress * Recent additions include AI and workforce training questions
Key Surprising Findings 1. Contact Centers as Strategic Intelligence Hubs * Major shift: Contact centers increasingly viewed as "strategic customer intelligence hubs" rather than cost centers * Described as "customer intelligence and nervous system" * No other department has closer customer proximity or more customer data * C-suite now acknowledges value with direct data funnels informing executive decisions
- AI Perceptions and Impact * 72% believe AI will transform roles, not replace them
- Only ~25% think AI will lead to workforce reductions
- AI expected to handle "level one, rote, monotonous, repetitive work"
- Agents will focus on:
- Complex needs and edge cases
- Soft skills: empathy, communication, problem solving, critical thinking
- 90% of surveyed leaders believe humans necessary as AI overseers
- Gartner prediction: 40% of agentic AI projects will fail by 2027 (often due to neglecting human oversight)
Agent Evolution * Agents increasingly viewed as: + Consultants + Solutions architects + Higher-tier problem solvers + "White glove service" providers * Rising expectations due to AI support * Agents becoming intelligence providers to C-suite * More analytical roles: identifying trends, patterns, creating intelligent summaries
Top AI Implementation Concerns 1. Customer resistance (top concern) 2. Data accuracy 3. Data privacy and security 4. Lack of proper AI governance
Workforce and Quality Management Insights Workforce Models (Nearly Equal Three-Way Split) * In-office full time * Hybrid * Fully remote * Models remain transitional and subject to change * Increased scheduling flexibility critical for retention
Quality Focus Shift * Traditional metrics: CSAT, utilization, average handle time * New priority: Agent experience rising in importance * Recognition that internal customer experience drives external customer experience
Customer Satisfaction Challenges * Current CSAT surveys often lack nuance * Can't distinguish between: + Poor agent performance vs. poor company policy + Single bad experience vs. overall satisfaction * Need for more qualitative feedback mechanisms * "Watermelon effect": High metrics but poor actual experience
Channel Evolution * Significant jump from multi-channel to omni-channel implementation * Growth in non-traditional channels: + Social media + SMS/text + Video * Technology enabling unified customer history across channels
Key Takeaways * Successful organizations treat contact centers as "valuable strategic sources of intelligence" * Organizations not recognizing this value are "dropping the ball" and will "see the consequences" * Contact centers serve as the "hub" and "nervous system" reaching everywhere in the organization * When no one knows the answer, they turn to the contact center
Notable Quotes * "If your agents aren't excited about AI, then you actually haven't communicated to them how enriching and transforming it could be" * "Agents are increasingly going to play a role where they are the eyes and the ears... providing the intelligence back to the C-suite" * Contact centers as "the strongest data... the hub... the nervous system that reaches in everywhere else"
Summary
In this conversation, Amas, Luke and Bob explore the evolving complexity of contact centers, challenging the notion that they are becoming simpler. They emphasizes that while the intention may be to simplify processes, the reality is that sophistication often leads to increased complexity. They also highlights the reliance on outdated metrics, such as those managed in Excel, which can contribute to agent burnout and friction with customers. They advocate for a shift towards more effective lead metrics to enhance the overall efficiency and satisfaction in contact centers.
Takeaways
Contact centers are perceived as becoming simpler, but they are actually becoming more complex.
Sophistication in processes can lead to increased complexity.
There is a challenge in addressing the complexity of contact centers.
Many organizations are still reliant on outdated tools like Excel.
Using lead metrics can help prevent agent burnout.
Improving metrics can reduce friction with customers.
The conversation highlights the need for modernization in contact center operations.
Understanding complexity is crucial for effective management.
Agent burnout is a significant issue in the industry.
A shift in metrics is necessary for better outcomes.
Sound Bites
"Sophistication also brings complexity."
"We are still for the most part stuck in Excel."
"Lead metrics could stop agent burnout."
Live from Orlando at ICMI Expo
Summary
In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the evolution of contact centers, the impact of CRM systems like Salesforce, and the role of AI in enhancing agent performance. They reflect on the historical context of CRM, the challenges faced by agents, and the future of customer service technology, particularly focusing on the Agent Force initiative. The discussion also touches on the sentiment within the Salesforce community and the potential for new competitors in the market.
Takeaways
Salesforce has become a dominant player in the CRM space. The evolution of contact centers has been significant over the years. AI can enhance agent performance rather than replace them. Understanding customer needs is crucial for effective service. The Agent Force initiative aims to improve agent capabilities. There is a negative sentiment towards Salesforce in the contact center community. The cost of building technology is decreasing, making competition more feasible. AI's role in customer service is still evolving and needs to focus on agents. Salesforce must communicate its value to agents to maintain loyalty. The future of customer service technology is uncertain but full of potential.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Context Setting 01:29 The Evolution of CRM and Contact Centers 06:05 Current Trends in Salesforce and AI 11:13 Agent Force and the Future of Customer Service 15:54 Prognosis for Salesforce and the Industry
Summary
In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the intricate relationship between marketing and call center operations, particularly during high-demand periods like holidays. They share personal anecdotes about challenges faced in fulfilling customer orders due to marketing miscommunications and emphasize the importance of building strong relationships between marketing and contact center teams. The discussion highlights the need for effective communication, data sharing, and collaboration to enhance customer experience and operational efficiency.
Takeaways
The holiday season can create significant challenges in call center operations. Marketing decisions can directly impact call center workload and customer satisfaction. Building relationships with marketing teams is crucial for effective communication. Data sharing between marketing and contact centers can improve customer service. Understanding operational limitations is essential for marketing strategies. Regular meetings between marketing and contact center teams can foster collaboration. Customer feedback is valuable for shaping marketing strategies. Effective communication can prevent misunderstandings and operational chaos. A cooperative approach can lead to better resource allocation and planning. Engaging with customers directly can provide insights that benefit marketing efforts.
Summary: For decades, leaders have debated whether the contact center should be a cost center, a profit center, or something in between. In this episode, Amas and Bob cut through the noise and tackle the question head-on: Is the contact center truly a profit center—or are we just telling the story wrong?
Amas argues that the CFO decides the labels, not us, and that contact centers suffer from being terrible storytellers compared to marketing. Bob reinforces that stories, not spreadsheets, are what move executives to invest in customer experience. Together, they break down how leaders can turn raw data into persuasive narratives that actually secure budget, influence the C-suite, and prove value.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
- Why the “profit center” debate hasn’t gone away—and probably won’t.
- The crucial difference between value creation and revenue generation.
- How marketing gets credit (and budget) despite spending every dollar they touch.
- Why endless Excel spreadsheets put executives to sleep—and what to do instead.
- The art of translating metrics into stories that CFOs and CEOs actually care about.
- Practical steps for contact center leaders to elevate their influence in the boardroom.
Key Quotes:
- “The CFO decides what’s a cost center and what’s a revenue center. We are just bad at telling our story.” – Amas
- “People don’t remember your statistics. They remember your stories.” – Bob
- “Marketing spends money all day, but they’ve convinced the world they’re indispensable. We should learn from that.” – Amas
Episode Highlights:
- (01:00) Revisiting the old debate: profit center vs. cost center.
- (02:30) Why marketing gets treated differently—and why service leaders should care.
- (04:30) The deadly sin of sending executives binders of metrics.
- (06:00) How to tell stories executives will remember—and fund.
- (09:00) Using customer stories to anchor your data.
- (11:30) Why your relationship with marketing and the CFO matters most.
- (12:45) Teaser: Amas & Bob will be recording LIVE at the ICMI Contact Center Expo in Orlando, Oct 27–30.
Resources & Links:
- Amas’s blog post: “Contact Centers Are Not Revenue Centers” [link]
- Learn more about the ICMI Contact Center Expo
We’re back from summer break (okay, maybe fall break too) and diving straight into the mess where AI, customers, and reality collide. In this episode, Amas and Bob unpack the hype vs. the truth about AI in contact centers:
- Is AI replacing humans—or just making customers angrier?
- Why human agents are still the heart of service, even as bots sound more “human.”
- How contact center leaders feel stuck—between CEOs chanting “AI, AI, AI” and customers who just want their problems solved.
- What the data really says about automation, agent workloads, and customer expectations.
- Practical advice for leaders: use AI to reduce after-call work, not replace human connection.
We also share personal summer highlights—Amas’ trip to Italy with his son, Bob’s perfect beach-and-donut days—and a fiery debate about tipping culture.
Finally, big news: The Contact Center Show is hitting the road! Catch us live at the ICMI Contact Center Expo in Orlando (October 27–30). We’ll have guests, fresh perspectives, and maybe even say the things your CEO wishes you wouldn’t.
Key Takeaways * AI isn’t the enemy. The problem is how it’s rolled out—done to agents, not for them. * Agents aren’t disappearing. Industry headcount is actually growing, despite automation hype. * Data is your weapon. Use it to show execs that customers can tell when a bot can handle it—and when they need a human. * Customer trust is fragile. Overcomplicate service and they’ll punish you with churn and complaints. * Leadership focus must return to people. Coaching, development, and real support matter more than the next shiny tool.
Episode Quotes * “I don’t hear the C-suite anymore talking about our people as the difference. It’s just AI, AI, AI.” – Amas * “It’s not about reducing talk time. It’s about reducing the after-call work so agents can get back to serving.” – Bob * “Adoption is failing in many companies because reps just ignore the tools. You’re doing it to them, not for them.” – Amas
Resources & Links * Register for ICMI Contact Center Expo in Orlando → https://www.icmi.com/contact-center-expo-conference * Follow Amas on LinkedIn: @amastenumah
Next Steps Want us to bring The Contact Center Show to your company, campus, or event? Reach out—we’ll say the things you can’t without getting fired.
Summary
In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the intersection of sports fandom and the business of contact centers, particularly focusing on business process outsourcing (BPO). They explore the reasons companies choose to outsource their customer service operations, the challenges involved, and the evolving landscape of the BPO industry. The discussion emphasizes the importance of understanding core competencies, cost savings, and the need for competent consultants in the BPO space.
Takeaways
The NBA Finals can evoke strong emotions and rivalries. BPOs are third-party services handling customer interactions. Cost savings is the primary reason for outsourcing. Companies often outsource to focus on their core competencies. Successful outsourcing requires understanding what to delegate. BPOs can leverage scale and technology for efficiency. Choosing the right outsourcing partner is crucial. AI is changing the landscape of customer service. Consultants with deep contact center experience are valuable. The BPO industry is evolving to include more tech services.
Chapters
00:00 NBA Finals and Personal Rivalries 01:15 Understanding BPOs and Contact Centers 02:26 The Decision to Outsource 03:35 Implementing Outsourcing Strategies 06:25 The BPO Industry's Shift to AI 08:07 Core Competencies in Outsourcing 10:52 Final Thoughts on BPO and Customer Care
Summary
In this heartfelt conversation, Bob Furniss shares the story of his daughter Keisha, who bravely battled breast cancer and inspired many through her positivity and strength. Bob discusses the impact of her life, the challenges of writing a book about her journey, and the mission of the nonprofit established in her honor to raise awareness about breast health. The conversation emphasizes the importance of early detection and encourages listeners to take action in their own lives.
Takeaways
Keisha was a light in the world, known for her positivity. Bob wrote the book to honor Keisha's legacy and help others. The nonprofit aims to raise awareness about breast health. Early detection of breast cancer is crucial for survival. Keisha's story is a reminder to cherish loved ones. Bob encourages open conversations about health in families. The book captures the essence of Keisha's spirit. Bob's journey of writing was both challenging and healing. The nonprofit provides resources for young women regarding breast health. Keisha's impact continues through the stories shared by others.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Weekend Highlights 02:54 The Story of Keisha: A Daughter's Legacy 05:58 Keisha's Impact and Personality 08:56 The Journey of Writing the Book 11:48 The Nonprofit Mission and Its Connection to Keisha 15:09 Encouraging Action: Breast Health Awareness 17:52 Reflections on Loss and Legacy 21:11 Final Thoughts and Call to Action
📚 Get the book: On to Blue (available on Amazon in all formats)
🌐 Support the cause: www.warriorprincess.org
If you’re a parent, friend, or leader—especially in a contact center full of women aged 25–45—listen to this conversation. Then talk to the women in your life.
👉 And ask her.
Summary
In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss various aspects of customer service, focusing on trends, the importance of human interaction, and the role of AI. They reflect on personal experiences with customer service, emphasizing the need for effective communication and the challenges faced by contact centers. The discussion highlights customer preferences, skepticism towards AI, and the potential for technology to enhance human agents rather than replace them.
Takeaways
Customer service impacts loyalty, trust, and brand reputation. Ineffective customer service can quickly damage a brand's reputation. Customers still prefer human interaction, especially older demographics. AI is not yet fully capable of replacing human agents in customer service. Many customers are skeptical about the use of AI in service. The majority of customers still want to talk to a human. Self-service options can be frustrating for customers who prefer direct contact. AI can be used to support agents rather than replace them. Effective communication is crucial in addressing customer needs. Understanding customer preferences is key to improving service.
Chapters
00:00 Weekend Reflections and Brisket Adventures 01:11 Customer Service Trends: Insights from the Article 03:49 The Importance of Human Interaction in Customer Service 07:37 AI in Customer Service: Current Limitations and Future Potential 10:59 Customer Preferences: The Skepticism Towards AI 11:52 Effective Use of AI: Enhancing Human Agents 14:12 Navigating the Future of Customer Service
https://www.cmswire.com/contact-center/customer-service-trends-show-what-customers-really-want-its-not-just-ai/
This conversation delves into the critical role of frontline supervisors in contact centers, exploring the challenges they face, the future of their roles amidst technological advancements, and effective leadership strategies to support them. The discussion emphasizes the importance of human connection in leadership and the need for organizations to prioritize the well-being and development of their frontline supervisors. Takeaways
The job of a frontline supervisor can be overwhelming. Many supervisors lack adequate training for their roles. Time management is crucial for supervisors to balance their responsibilities. Supervisors often spend less than 50% of their time with their teams. Technology is changing the landscape of contact centers, impacting supervisors' roles. AI and automation may not replace supervisors but change their responsibilities. Leadership should focus on personal growth and development. Praise and coaching should be balanced in management practices. Human customers will always need human supervisors. Organizations must check in on their frontline supervisors regularly.
Summary
In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the evolving landscape of contact centers, particularly focusing on Microsoft's recent rebranding efforts that redefine the term 'agent' to refer to bots rather than human representatives. They explore the implications of this shift, the role of technology in customer service, and the importance of maintaining a human connection in an increasingly automated environment. The discussion emphasizes the need for leaders in the industry to advocate for human agents while navigating the challenges posed by AI and digital transformation.
Takeaways
Microsoft's rebranding reflects a significant shift in the contact center industry. The term 'agent' is now being associated with bots rather than human representatives. Technology is becoming the focal point in contact centers, often at the expense of human agents. There is a need for industry professionals to push back against the over-reliance on technology. AI should be used to support human agents, not replace them. The future of customer service must include a balance between technology and human interaction. Leaders should advocate for the value of human agents in the face of automation. Customer loyalty is built on human connections, not technology. The conversation around AI in contact centers is evolving rapidly. It's essential to maintain clarity in terminology to avoid confusion between human and digital agents.
Titles
The Future of Contact Centers: Humans vs. Bots Navigating the AI Revolution in Customer Service
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Sports Banter 02:01 Microsoft's Rebranding and the Future of Contact Centers 06:05 The Role of Technology in Contact Centers 12:03 Navigating Change in Contact Center Operations 17:57 Conclusion and Call to Action 18:59 contact center show vertical outtro.mp4
Links:https://www.cxtoday.com/contact-center/microsoft-rebrands-its-contact-center-workspace-stops-using-the-term-agent-for-live-reps/
https://www.cxtoday.com/contact-center/microsoft-releases-three-ai-agents-for-a-more-autonomous-contact-center/
In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the critical issues surrounding employee engagement and retention, particularly in contact centers. They explore the impact of leadership on employee satisfaction, the importance of proper training for supervisors, and the need for organizations to create a supportive work environment. The discussion emphasizes the necessity of understanding why employees stay or leave, and how effective leadership can foster a positive workplace culture. The conversation concludes with a call to action for organizations to prioritize leadership development and employee engagement strategies. Takeaways * Employee engagement has regressed to pre-COVID levels. * Understanding why employees leave is crucial for retention. * Strong relationships with leaders can influence employee retention. * Promoting the best employee to a leadership role can backfire. * Leadership training is often lacking in organizations. * A supportive work environment is essential for employee satisfaction. * Employees need to feel a sense of purpose in their work. * Effective communication between managers and employees is vital. * Organizations must be realistic about job expectations. * Investing time in leadership development is necessary for success.
TitlesReviving Employee Engagement Post-COVID Sound Bites * "Why are people leaving?" * "People don't leave jobs, they leave employers." * "Let us know if you want more of this."
Chapters 00:00The State of Employee Engagement 02:59Understanding Employee Retention 06:11The Role of Leadership in Retention 08:45Training and Development for Leaders 12:06Creating a Supportive Work Environment 15:02The Importance of Purpose in Work 17:59Final Thoughts and Call to Action https://news.gallup.com/poll/1720/work-work-place.aspx
In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the evolving landscape of customer satisfaction metrics, particularly focusing on the Net Promoter Score (NPS). They explore the origins of NPS, its initial impact on customer sentiment, and the criticisms it has faced over the years. The discussion highlights the importance of understanding customer feedback and the ethical implications of incentivizing customer responses. Ultimately, they question the relevance of NPS in today's business environment and suggest a more nuanced approach to measuring customer satisfaction. Takeaways * It's a people business. * NPS became kind of a synonym for customer satisfaction. * NPS has now been bastardized. * We have data now that NPS does not correlate to recommendations. * If I did what you wanted, please give me a good score. * We've put that person into a place where they are just trying to meet the expectation. * If it's going to be about the damn metric, fix the system. * NPS is past its time. * We need to wow our customers. * We need to keep customer sentiment really, really matters.
Chapters
00:00 The Ever-Changing Landscape of Business 02:27 The Evolution and Impact of NPS 11:27 Critique of NPS: Is It Still Relevant? 18:18 The Ethics of Customer Feedback and Incentives
Resources:
https://itamargilad.com/net-promoter-score-part1/
https://www.netpromotersystem.com/insights/refocusing-nps-for-earned-growth-podcast/
Summary
In this engaging conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the challenges and implications of automation in customer service, particularly focusing on HP's controversial decision to implement a 15-minute wait time for customers to encourage self-service. They explore customer preferences, the impact of wait times on experience, and the importance of effective customer service strategies in business. The discussion highlights the balance between cost efficiency and customer satisfaction, culminating in a call for companies to value customer feedback and service quality.
Takeaways
Automation in customer service often leads to frustration. HP's 15-minute wait policy aimed to push digital self-service. Customer preferences should be prioritized in service design. Long wait times can significantly impact customer experience. Companies must listen to customer feedback to improve services. Self-service options should be user-friendly and accessible. The cost of human interaction in customer service is high. Effective communication is key to customer satisfaction. Businesses should focus on long-term customer relationships. Customer service should be valued as a critical business function.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Light Banter 00:57 The Automation Dilemma in Customer Service 02:55 HP's Controversial 15-Minute Wait Policy 06:07 Customer Preferences and Self-Service Solutions 09:02 The Impact of Wait Times on Customer Experience 12:02 HP's Policy Rescinded and Customer Feedback 15:06 The Importance of Customer Service in Business 17:58 Conclusion and Call to Action
Summary
In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the evolving landscape of customer service, particularly the role of AI and human agents. They reflect on the impact of AI technologies on contact centers, emphasizing that while AI can enhance efficiency, the human element remains crucial. They reference Klana's recent shift back to valuing human interaction, highlighting consumer preferences for speaking with live agents. The discussion underscores the importance of using AI to support rather than replace human agents, ultimately advocating for a balanced approach to customer service that prioritizes both technology and human connection.
Takeaways
AI is capable of handling a significant volume of customer interactions. The belief that AI will completely replace human agents is exaggerated. Human agents are becoming more valuable in the age of AI. AI should be used to enhance the capabilities of human agents. Consumer preference still leans heavily towards human interaction for customer service. Companies that ignore the human element risk losing customer satisfaction. The integration of AI in customer service should focus on efficiency and support for agents. Automation can lead to increased customer interactions, not a decrease. The return of human agents in companies like Klana highlights the importance of personal touch. Understanding customer needs is essential for effective service delivery.
Summary
In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss explore the critical themes of leadership, empathy, and the evolving dynamics in contact centers, especially in the context of AI integration. They discuss the importance of creating a safe and trusting environment for employees, the need for compassion in leadership, and the distinction between finding meaning from work versus meaning at work. The conversation emphasizes that as technology advances, the human element in leadership becomes even more vital.
Takeaways
Empathy can be learned but is often defined differently by individuals. Leaders must create a safe space for employees to express themselves. Hope, trust, compassion, and stability are essential for effective leadership. The relationship between agents and managers is changing with AI integration. Employees need to feel safe to express unpopular opinions without fear of repercussions. The shift towards a people-based business model is crucial in contact centers. Meaning at work is derived from relationships, not just salary. Compassion in leadership helps employees feel valued and supported. AI should enhance human interactions, not replace them. Leaders should regularly assess if they are providing hope and trust to their teams.
Summary
In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the ongoing shift back to office work post-COVID, the challenges of hybrid work models, and the importance of thoughtful leadership in contact centers. They explore the reasons behind companies' push for employees to return to the office, the impact of remote work on productivity, and the need for effective communication and community building in the workplace.
Takeaways
There is a significant push for employees to return to the office post-COVID. Many companies are struggling with the logistics of bringing employees back. The culture argument for returning to the office is often unfounded. Remote work has shown to be as productive, if not more so, than in-person work. Contact centers have been slower to adopt remote work models compared to other industries. Leaders need to be intentional about fostering community in the workplace. Hybrid work models are challenging to implement effectively. Companies should leverage the opportunity to build stronger teams when employees are in the office. Effective communication tools are essential for maintaining productivity in contact centers. Workforce management is crucial for understanding employee needs and optimizing operations.
Summary
In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the essential skills for success in customer service roles, emphasizing the importance of empathy, authenticity, and a positive attitude. They explore how these skills can be taught or innate, and the impact of genuine interactions on customer experiences. The discussion highlights the need for contact center leaders to trust their employees to be themselves and to foster authentic relationships with customers.
Takeaways
Empathy is the most crucial skill in customer service. You cannot teach empathy; it must be inherent. Authenticity in interactions leads to better customer experiences. Positive attitudes can sometimes feel insincere. Trusting employees to be themselves enhances service quality. Customer service training should focus on genuine interactions. Scripts can hinder authentic communication with customers. Empathy should be felt, not just expressed in words. Leaders should encourage authenticity in their teams. Building relationships with customers is key to effective service.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Customer Service Skills 01:17 The Importance of Empathy in Customer Service 05:50 Understanding Authenticity in Customer Interactions 12:44 The Role of Positive Attitude in Service 17:45 Building Trust and Authentic Relationships
Takeaways
Customer service experiences can be frustrating and time-consuming. Government intervention may be necessary to improve customer service standards. Companies often fail to address their own customer service issues. The experience of customers with disabilities is often overlooked. Regulations in Europe provide clearer guidelines for customer service. Technology alone will not solve customer service problems. Organizations need to actively seek feedback to improve service. Customer service representatives often have limited solutions to offer. Internal reforms are essential for enhancing customer experience. The government may step in if companies do not take action.
Chapters
00:00 The State of Customer Service Today 08:52 Government Intervention in Customer Service 13:01 The Future of Customer Experience
Summary
In this engaging conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the challenges of employee engagement and satisfaction in the workplace, particularly in the context of returning from time off. They explore the importance of recognition, meaningful work, and the impact of relationships on employee well-being. The discussion also touches on insights from other industries and the need for a more personalized approach to understanding employee needs.
Takeaways
Taking time off often leads to a desire to stop working altogether. Employee satisfaction is declining, particularly in service industries. Meaningful work drives engagement more than financial compensation. Recognition is a key motivator for employees. Understanding the grind of work is essential for improving engagement. Relationships in the workplace are crucial for employee success. Cultural insights from other industries can inform better practices. Time off does not necessarily recharge employees for more work. A personalized approach is needed to understand employee needs. Attention to employee well-being can prevent disengagement.
Chapters
00:00 New Year Greetings and Reflections 01:37 Employee Satisfaction and Engagement Post-COVID 05:21 The Importance of Meaningful Work 10:54 Recognition and Relationships in the Workplace 15:59 Learning from Other Industries
Summary
In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss reflect on the year 2024 in customer service, discussing persistent challenges in contact centers, the evolution of work-from-home practices, and changing customer expectations regarding returns. They also share personal anecdotes about memorable holiday gifts and emphasize the importance of gratitude and understanding during the holiday season.
Takeaways
AI is still not as user-friendly as expected. Contact centers face ongoing challenges similar to those from years ago. The importance of people in customer service remains paramount. Work from home practices have significantly retreated post-pandemic. Customer expectations for frictionless returns have increased. Companies need to adapt their customer service strategies accordingly. Personal experiences shape our views on customer service. Gratitude and patience are essential during the holiday season. Not everyone celebrates Christmas, and inclusivity matters. Memorable gifts often come with personal stories and reflections.
Chapters
00:00 Reflecting on Customer Service Trends of 2024 04:52 The Evolution of Work From Home in Contact Centers 10:13 Customer Expectations and Return Policies 14:56 Memorable Holiday Gifts and Personal Reflections 20:00 Gratitude and Acknowledgment During the Holidays
Summary
In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss various themes surrounding customer experience, particularly in the context of recent tragic events and the impact of societal anger on service interactions. They explore the quality of food at conferences, the implications of a recent murder related to healthcare dissatisfaction, and the need for empathy and flexibility in customer service policies. The discussion emphasizes the importance of human interaction in service environments and the challenges posed by rigid policies that often ignore individual circumstances.
Chapters
00:00 Conference Experiences and Food Quality 02:05 Tragic Events in Healthcare Leadership 06:48 Customer Service Challenges and Societal Anger 09:17 Policies vs. Empathy in Customer Service 16:36 The Human Element in Customer Interactions 17:15 contact center show vertical outtro.mp4
Summary
In this episode, Amas and Bob discuss the complexities of hybrid work, particularly in the context of contact centers. They explore the evolution of remote work, the challenges of engaging employees in a hybrid environment, and the strategies leaders can implement to ensure success. The conversation highlights the importance of digital communication, effective training, and the need for organizations to adapt to the changing expectations of the workforce, especially among younger generations.
Takeaways
Hybrid work presents unique challenges for leaders. Effective communication is crucial in a hybrid environment. Training and coaching must adapt to hybrid models. Employee engagement strategies need to be rethought for hybrid teams. Digital-first approaches can enhance remote work experiences. Management by walking around is still important, even remotely. Organizations must be ready to support hybrid work effectively. The future of work is influenced by generational expectations. Contact centers are lagging behind in remote work adoption. Success in hybrid work requires careful planning and execution.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Hybrid Work Challenges 02:56 The Evolution of Remote Work 05:56 Navigating Hybrid Engagement 12:03 Key Strategies for Hybrid Success 16:05 Future of Work and Generational Expectations
Key Highlights:
-
Introduction: - Bob enjoys the banter with Amas about customer service challenges.
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Sister's Experience: - Amas shares a story from his sister about difficulties in returning items, highlighting widespread customer service frustrations. - Discussion shifts to training as a core issue in service quality.
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The Training Debate: - Bob emphasizes that training isn't just a simple problem; it encompasses various methods (classroom, online, interactive). - The importance of hiring effective trainers with strong facilitation skills is noted.
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Expectations vs. Reality: - Unrealistic expectations on agents’ knowledge vs. what’s feasible in training are discussed. - Example from Bob’s experience with product training illustrates gaps in knowledge expectations.
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Realistic Training Goals: - Focus should shift from rote memorization to understanding concepts and finding information. - The need for open-book assessments and emphasis on problem-solving skills.
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Importance of Context: - Understanding the “why” behind questions is crucial for effective customer interaction. - Agents should connect with customers rather than just provide scripted answers.
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AI’s Role: - AI can aid in information retrieval but cannot replace the need for agents to engage with customers on a deeper level.
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Living Training: - The best training comes from real-life experiences, not just theoretical knowledge. - Importance of “nesting” (support after training) for new agents to apply what they’ve learned.
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Closing Thoughts: - Bob quotes Ben Franklin: “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” - Both hosts encourage listeners to consider how to improve training practices.
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Live Podcast Announcement: - Bob and Amas will be at the ICMI show in Orlando from October 21-25. - Listeners are invited to join, engage, and share their thoughts during live recordings.
Podcast Summary: Tackling Contact Center Attrition
In this episode, Amas and Bob dive into the persistent challenge of attrition in contact centers. They reminisce about Amas's experience running a center in the mid-2000s, where the attrition rate hovered around 7-9%. Surprisingly, even after 15 years, the current rate remains about the same. They explore whether this issue is truly fixable and discuss the implications of attrition rates comparable to those in retail environments.
Bob emphasizes the importance of analyzing data beyond just averages to identify specific areas of concern. He points out that while some centers perform well, many still struggle with high turnover. They agree that rather than relying on superficial employee engagement tactics like pizza parties, contact centers should focus on improving the job itself and fostering trust between employees and supervisors.
Amas shares a personal anecdote about an employee who preferred working at McDonald's due to lower stress levels, prompting a conversation about the real factors affecting job satisfaction. The duo highlights the need for contact center leaders to rethink their approach to employee experience, advocating for genuine relationships and understanding the needs of their teams.
Bob suggests actionable steps for supervisors to build trust, including knowing employees' names, recognizing their strengths and areas for improvement, and understanding their personal passions. They conclude by stressing that relationships are key to employee retention and satisfaction.
Tune in to hear insights on creating a positive work environment in contact centers, and learn how to shift the focus from temporary perks to meaningful change.
In this episode, Amas and Bob dive into the ongoing struggle with knowledge management in contact centers—a problem that's been around since the Clinton administration. Despite years of technological advancements, knowledge management remains a significant challenge, with many customer service representatives still struggling to find the right information quickly.
Bob shares his optimism about the potential of generative AI to revolutionize knowledge management by aggregating and analyzing data from various sources. However, both Amas and Bob acknowledge that while AI could improve information retrieval, the real challenge lies in the human and process side of things. The discussion explores the conflict between relying on AI to provide information and trusting human agents to apply judgment in delivering that information to customers.
They emphasize that AI should be used to augment knowledge workers, not replace them, particularly in the tedious task of keeping content up-to-date. The episode wraps up with the idea that AI could help reduce the noise in the information agents must sift through, making their jobs easier and more effective.
Listeners are encouraged to understand AI's capabilities and integrate it into their contact center operations, focusing on how it can help manage and improve knowledge over time.
*Episode Highlights:
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In-Person Events vs. Online Meetings: - Amas and Bob discuss the value of attending in-person events in an era dominated by virtual meetings. They argue that face-to-face interactions foster deeper connections, networking, and learning opportunities that virtual settings can't fully replicate.
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The Importance of Networking: - Bob emphasizes the benefits of meeting new people at events, sharing experiences, and learning from peers. He suggests that these interactions can offer fresh perspectives and solutions to common challenges in the industry.
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The Power of Human Connection: - Amas reflects on how he met Bob at an ICMI event in 2007 and how their professional relationship blossomed into a strong friendship. This wouldn't have been possible without attending an in-person event.
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Exciting Announcement - Live Podcast at ICMI Expo: - Amas and Bob are taking their podcast live to the ICMI Contact Center Expo in Orlando, October 22-24. They will host four live shows from the expo floor, providing an opportunity for attendees to interact with them, ask questions, and participate in discussions.
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Engagement Opportunities at the Expo: - Attendees can meet Amas and Bob, engage in debates, and share their thoughts on various topics discussed on the podcast. There will be opportunities to challenge the hosts and hear from special guests, including vendors and speakers.
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What to Expect from a Live Podcast: - Bob explains that a live podcast involves real-time interaction with an audience, creating a dynamic environment that differs from their usual recording setup. They will host conversations, engage with attendees, and bring a lively atmosphere to the expo floor.
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Join Us in Orlando: - Amas and Bob invite listeners to join them at the ICMI Expo in Orlando. They offer a discount for registration and encourage attendees to subscribe to the podcast for more updates and fun discussions.
Call to Action: - Subscribe and listen to full episodes of "The Contact Center Show" on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Join Amas and Bob live at the ICMI Expo in Orlando for engaging discussions and networking opportunities.
Note: For those interested in attending, visit the expo floor booth located at the back left side to meet the hosts and participate in the live shows!
In this episode of the Contact Center Show, co-hosts Bob Furness and Amas reconnect to discuss the evolving landscape of contact centers, focusing on the challenges faced by agents in today’s complex work environment. They delve into the increasing isolation that many agents experience, particularly with the rise of remote and hybrid work models. Amas and Bob emphasize that while technology plays a significant role in the industry, it cannot replace the critical need for human connection and empathy in the workplace.
The conversation highlights the importance of maintaining strong relationships between managers and their teams. Bob points out that many contact center employees feel disconnected from their supervisors, which can lead to feelings of loneliness and disengagement. He stresses the need for managers to be proactive in fostering these connections, whether through regular in-person interactions or creative use of digital tools like Teams.
Amas adds that despite the convenience of digital channels, voice interactions remain crucial for building customer loyalty. The hosts argue that contact center leaders must prioritize the agent experience, ensuring that employees feel supported and valued, especially when dealing with challenging customer interactions. They also touch on the broader implications of workplace relationships, citing studies that show employees are more engaged and satisfied when they have meaningful connections at work.
The episode concludes with a call to action for leaders to rethink their approach to management in the contact center, prioritizing the human element in an increasingly digital world.
Welcome back to the Contact Center Show! Amas and Bob kick off a new season with a dynamic conversation about the state of contact centers and the experiences of contact center agents.
Amas: "Bob, it’s so good to see you again. How have you been?" Bob: "I’m doing well, Amas. It’s great to be back in front of the mic."
The duo dives into the evolving landscape of contact centers since their last discussion in 2023, particularly focusing on the impact of AI technologies like ChatGPT on agents’ experiences. Amas shares his observation that while technological advancements have been significant, the core issues agents face, such as job complexity and attrition, persist.
Bob: "High attrition and job dissatisfaction remain problems. AI has made some jobs easier, but for many agents, the work has become more complex."
They discuss the disparity between large organizations that have successfully integrated AI to improve agent workflows and smaller companies that are still catching up. Bob emphasizes the importance of addressing the agent experience directly rather than solely focusing on customer-facing technologies.
Amas: "We need to shift our focus back to improving the agents' work environment and overall experience."
The conversation concludes with practical advice for contact center leaders: engage with your employees, understand their daily challenges, and explore how AI can support rather than replace their roles.
Bob: "Talk to your employees. Understand their pain points and think about how technology can truly help them."
Amas: "Take care of your people, and they’ll take care of your customers."
Tune in to this insightful episode for more on enhancing the contact center agent experience, the role of AI, and practical tips for leaders in the industry. Don’t forget to subscribe and share the show with your friends. Until next time!
Podcast Summary: The Future of Contact Centers with Amas and Bob Hosts: Amas and Bob
Topic: The evolving landscape of contact centers and the impact of AI technology.
Key Points:
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Introduction:
- Amas and Bob reunite to discuss the future of contact centers, emphasizing their long-standing involvement and passion for the industry.
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Industry Predictions:
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Amas shares a pessimistic view from a major IT consulting CEO predicting the demise of call centers due to advancements in AI and technology.
- Bob counters with optimism, likening the prediction to the exaggerated reports of Mark Twain’s death, asserting that contact centers will not disappear but evolve.
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Technological Evolution:
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Bob and Amas reminisce about past technological advancements (IVR, the internet, social media) that were supposed to reduce the need for human agents but ultimately did not eliminate the necessity for human interaction.
- Amas highlights the continued growth in phone calls despite these technological changes.
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Impact of AI:
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Bob acknowledges AI’s potential to transform the contact center experience for both agents and customers but believes human agents remain essential due to the complexity of certain problems.
- Amas emphasizes that AI should be viewed as a tool to enhance customer service rather than a replacement for human agents.
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Future Outlook:
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Both hosts agree that while AI will change the contact center landscape, it won’t make it obsolete. They predict AI will help improve efficiency and customer service but stress the importance of human involvement.
- They advise contact center agents to stay informed and educated about AI advancements to remain valuable in their roles.
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Advice to Listeners:
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Amas urges listeners to focus on how AI can improve customer experiences rather than solely seeking cost-cutting measures.
- Bob encourages agents to embrace learning opportunities about AI to better adapt to the upcoming changes.
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Closing Thoughts:
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Amas and Bob conclude with a call for humility and caution against overconfidence in predicting the future of technology.
- They sign off with philosophical wisdom, quoting Socrates on the importance of focusing on building the new rather than fighting the old.
Conclusion: The podcast wraps up with a reminder for listeners to subscribe and share, promising more insightful discussions on the future of contact centers.
Bob, it has been a while since we have talked to the contact center show audience, and there are some rumors that I want to put to bed. Bob, the word on the street is we got rich and famous and we stopped putting out new show. I've gotten some responses from our fans. Can you put these rumors to bed? What actually happened here?
Bob
Well, as you can see, I'm calling you from my yacht. So the rumors are not true. I don't think anyone who uses the word customer service anywhere in their title has gotten rich from being in customer service. I remember the times I used to work with my budgets and nobody got rich there. Maybe some famous authors got rich writing books about customer service. I don't know why both of us are not in that category, but I do say we had a lot of fun doing that podcast we did. And we want you to follow us to the next podcast we're doing.
Amas
Yes.
Bob
So let's talk a little bit about that.
Amas
Let's talk about that. And we're going to talk about the new show, the customer happiness show. But before we do that, I went back and I looked, and over the course of those years, we put out over 70 episodes. I don't know many people, and they average about 45 minutes each. I don't know many people who can talk for 3 hours about most topics. Why do you love contact centers and customer service? Why have you stayed in it most of your career? What's in it for you?
Bob
Well, first of all, if we put out 70 episodes, then I probably have run out of things to say at this point. So maybe that's the reason why we stopped talking about contact.
Amas
Good point.
Bob
What do I love about customer service? I love that customer service is almost always a human experience. And yes, I know that digital is going to take over the world and call centers are going to go away. And all the pontificating about how much we're not going to have a call center, I don't think those are right. And I love that human interactions are almost always part of the equation. And it's in those times that we walk away from a company more loyal, saying, that was a good experience. That is why I like customer service. What about you? What's your draw to customer service?
Amas
I think, Bob, it's a profession that has allowed me to utilize many parts of my brain and my know, there's a little behavioral economics there, right? How do you get people to do things, whether employees, customers, how do you get them to behave? There's a lot of technologies, technology, and a lot of things. And then there is what we used to call soft skills. And one of our few guests we had on the show taught us there was tough skills. That's a great episode. You guys go check that out. And by tough skills, people used to think about them as just pleases and thank you. There's a little art about how you deliver information, how you listen, how you do that. So you have to learn about those things as well. Then there's data involved, right? You got to measure everything because you're trying to do things efficiently and effectively. And as you know, I tried to go do something else for a little while last year, and I came right back and I'll probably spend the rest of my career doing this, and I can't imagine doing anything else. And so we've stopped putting out. I mean, we'll come occasionally and put out some shows here. The show is still going to be up, guys. You can get it. But we have made this pivot. And I got to tell you the story about how this came of. The name of the show, by the way, is the customer happiness show, but the name of the show, the format of the show, all of this came. I took a trip to Bob lives in Memphis and I live in Oklahoma City, and we go and see each other as often as time, and all of that permits. So I go there. We had a few beers in Memphis. We took that really long walk. I don't know how many miles that thing was. I wanted to see the little river thing. I don't know what you call that body of water, but we took that walk around it and we agonized about what this format will be. All we were sure about is we know that we've put out tons of contents to help contact center people around the world till this date. I still get emails that I don't forward to, Bob. They don't come in as often anymore because there are no new episodes. And every time someone mentions the show, it gives me lots of joy that we put that out. But we wanted to pivot to go talk to consumers, the Joe blow consumers out, Bob, and you can share more about. It's been months since we were having that conversation. Why are you excited about this format and specifically talking about consumers? What really excites you about it? Well, I think the very first time.
Bob
You and I were on a podcast together, if I'm not mistaken, was sometime in late 2019, where I joined yours, and we started talking in the same vein along. What do we get? Could we do a podcast together and our main number one goal was to have fun doing it. And I think we've met that number one goal. I hope we meet that number one goal with this one. But I'm excited because like you said, we talked a lot about sales and contact centers and walk up service and just about every kind of service. And it's always been the knowledge from the inside out. It's always been helping people on the inside do it better. So I'm excited to take all of those years of knowledge of what happens on the inside and turn it around. We did a show recently over on the new podcast about customer service at SiriusXM. And so what we're able to do is we understand service in general. So we're able to take the inside view and share it with the consumer and say, here are ways that you can be a better consumer to get better service. That's what excites me. It's from the outside.
Amas
I think. I think for me, Bob, similar to what you're saying, I feel like because we were so focused on the inside, the professionals, we were always helping the consumer. We were trying to teach people who delivered your service, contact center leaders, et cetera, to deliver your good service. Now we get to kind of be in the middle. We're going to focus on the consumer, bring all of our inside information in and teach consumers how to do that. I remember I'm a foodie, as you know, and Bob is as well. We both love food. And the book that changed the way I order out is Anthony Bourdain's kitchen confidential. And that's what I hope this is in know. He taught me that don't order the special, don't order the like because he was a chef and he knew all of that inside deal. And he didn't write the book for chefs, he wrote it for people who go out to eat. Until this date, when I walk into a restaurant, the things I learned from him still kind of echoes in my brain. And I hope this show becomes that. But the second reason I'm really excited is the format that we haven't told you guys about is we debated a little bit on the contact center show, but this show is all it is, all of us, not every single show, but for the most part, we are going back and forth. And I don't think it will surprise anyone who's listened to Bob and I over these four years that I win almost every time. So that part also excites me. I don't know if it excites Bob so much. Losing to me every week. But that part really gives me a lot of joy.
Bob
You definitely win every time you're talking because you say the most absurd things that I've ever heard, much like the.
Amas
One you just said.
Bob
But that is part of the reason for me also. I enjoy the back and forth.
Amas
So we are on the show and I suspect, and guys, you got to check out the show. I don't think the show is us. While it's called customer happiness, we are not on the show talking about how great customer service is. We are often on the show talking about some of the things and helping consumers navigate it better. So let me ask you, let me put you on the spot. What is your biggest pet peeve? You are a consumer. All of us are consumers. What's your biggest pet peeve? Put your customer hat on.
Bob
Well, mine is always when I'm told this is the policy and that's the only thing we can do. I hate hearing the word policy. I think that we probably make those agents that way because we do have a policy and we do tell them they can't negotiate. But that's my pet peeve because there should always be negotiation. In fact, I'll tell you an experience. I recently was at a well known shoe store and the employee came back and said, I'm sorry, but that's the policy. So I said, well, the policy doesn't make any sense. And he said something to the degree of, if I had a dollar for every time a corporate policy didn't make sense in my job, I'd be a millionaire. And so here's a guy that would really like to help me. Agrees with me that the policy is crazy. But he's quoting me the policy. So the policy for me is the one. I don't know what yours is. What's yours?
Amas
Mine is maybe dishonesty is too strong of a word. I don't like the fact that I go somewhere, they ask me for my email address to send me a receipt, and then here comes all these emails. I don't like the we will be with you shortly. Your call is important to us. They will call me and they won't call me back. It's these broken promises for me that makes customer service a pain at times. And so I actually prefer just tell me what I'm getting so that way I know what this is going to look like. So, guys, again, I would be remiss if I didn't say thank you to every single person over the years who downloaded the show, who subscribed who liked, who told people about it, who shared it, I cannot know. Two guys, one in Oklahoma City, one in Memphis. Two friends got on the phone and talked. And at the peak of our show, 4000 of you would download the show. I am incredibly just humbled and thankful and just hope we get a little bit of that success onto the next show. So we're asking you to stick with us. Come with us to the next show. You're going to learn something. You're going to hear us even hopefully funnier and more entertaining. And Bob, by the way, is semi retired now, which means God knows what's going to come out of his mouth. So please come join us.
Bob
Yeah, I'm on my own now. I can say what I really want to say instead of what I need to be careful how I say it. But you can join us on the same channels you're used to. So we're on Spotify, we're on Alexa, we're on Apple, we're on all the places that you get your podcast. We're still distributing to the same places. You can do a search on the customer happiness show. We're the only one out there with that name. So you can search on that. We'll put the link in, put the name at the end of this video. But as Amas said, thank you so much for your listening to us. I had somebody tell me that was a new research analyst that just began to work in the contact center space in a financial capacity as a research analyst. Tell me that she felt like she got more information from our podcast. And I said, well, how many did you listen to? She goes, I'm too embarrassed to tell you how many of them I listened to. But she said that she got a lot out of it and it felt like she understood both sides of the contact center world by listening. So it's just those kind of comments and the emails that you send that have made us keep doing it. We just hope you'll join us in the new one.
Amas
Awesome. Well, please subscribe. Like comment. The show is still going to be available, we're going to keep it going, and every now and then we'll pop in and maybe produce some new content. But please subscribe the customer happiness show wherever you get your podcast. Thank you all. Bye.
Amas and Bob take a look back a their third season of the Contact Center show.
"I plan to spend the offseason doing nonprofit, keisha Warrior Princess, we aims to educate women on the importance of self exams and of gynological appointments annually."- Bob
I'm increasingly getting feedback from people who are not deep into the contact center, but are contact center adjacent. Whether they be like, people who work in other departments, consumers, what have you. If you're out there again, we want to hear from you. - Amas
"Speech analytics is going to become more important in the contact center. "CCaaS and UcaaS are going to get blended into one." - Bob
- In the next 12 months, are we like to see GPT mainstream in the contact center? I don't think we can move fast enough as an industry to make GPT commonplace. But for it to be part of our mainstream way that we do business, I just don't Think it's been there long enough. - Bob
I will be spending a lot of time on conference calls, but also reading and getting smarter so we can come back and chat with you again. - Amas
"We'll talk about stuff and then invariably we get off on some tangent about this organization and this industry that we work in and we could hit the record button and publish it, right? Exactly. It's part of our DNA." - Bob
"We're in the midst of a sea change in Contact Center." - Amas
Bob and Amas discuss how you should prepare for CCaas:
Three out of four contact centers today have not yet made the move. Every vendor is telling companies to make this move. The improvements are happening in their new cloud system. We're getting close to the point where this would be a baseline requirement.
CCaaS allows agents to use all of their channels in one interface. It adds some user capabilities for the agent. That makes their life a little bit easier. Is this something that's going to change my life at all?
- CCaaS projects thus far has been a little case of over promise under deliver. Lots of people have gone down this road, have said, Gosh, I like the new system, but they don't consider it a success in terms of ROI.
-: The vendors are saying that the ROI is better than it could possibly be. He says a 20% reduction in handle time is just not realistic.
Your ROI has to get a lot more creative and more thoughtful than that. It's about improving the agent experience and the customer experience.
"Data Center. That there is a refrigerator size box or there is a stack of servers. I probably just dated myself with the refrigerator size box." Bob
"I'm gonna go to an old reliable Seneca today. This quote is we are more often frightened than hurt and we suffer more in imagination than in reality." - Amas
Amas and Bob tell you how to separate the hype from reality with GPT:
-
AI will eliminate 75% of call center jobs. AI will even make your bed. These are some of the real headlines about what generative AI things like Chat GPT will do to the contact center.
-
I think the next knowledge will be the impact. It's going to affect the way that we write knowledge articles. Marketing is an example of how knowledge is going to be second in the contact center. And then the last step is talking to the agent where generative AI actually talks to the customer.
-
Generative AI is still on the way up in the Gartner Hype cycle. That means that the peak of inflated expectations are not over yet. Greene: It'll make the biggest impact on the agent, not the customer. Companies should be paying attention to it.
-
You sound like you have a bias for disrupting and helping the agent as opposed to replacing the agent by putting this thing in front of the customers. Is this one of those kind of, hey, start here because it's safer? I still believe we have a place for an agent.
-
What I want to do is help my agent versus replace my agent. Typical contact center probably has four to 500 knowledge articles. Think about having Chat GPT rewrite those articles through the lens of the customer. There's tons of improvement to the experience if you start there.
-
Google CEO Sandar Pachaya said Artificial intelligence is one of the most profound things we're working on as humanity. That silence after that is what tells me we've got to understand what this impact is. I hope we helped you guys get smarter this week.
"It you know the demise of the contact center has been going on since since the IVR so. The reality is, is that contact the percentage of contact center jobs in companies have gone up compared to where they were before those technologies came into play." - Bob
" I want to point out to people who you heard me say that the most popular car in the 1890s was an electric car." - Amas
Bob and Amas discuss the world of knowledge.
"I'm going to date myself that we had knowledge on paper in binders at every desk." - Bob
"In fact, I believe that if used correctly, knowledge or technical product content in this case is and should be seen as marketing." - Mike
"So we have this issue. There are 1400 page PDFs running out there. How would you think about the problem and and how? How have you advised people to begin to think about solving it?" -Amas
Connect with Mike Stock at https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikestockactual/
Amas and Bob discuss the role of the CFO in the Contact Center:
"Yeah, there is a the metric but there reason your are measuring FCR, repeat call rates, average call rate, they should lead somewhere." -Amas
"I gotta be ready to tell the story of the history, the real-time and the future." -Bob
Amas and Bob discuss the outbound call center:
"This is giving me flashbacks of my teenage years when I was doing telemarketing." - Amas
"Time is money!
Interactions to Sales matter - from a cost perspective." -Bob
"Well first of all it's a tough job, in that job I was talking about I called 60 people maybe 20 talked to me, that's a lot of negativity." - Bob
Bob interviews Amas about his latest book "Waiting for Service"
"If our industry could get the waiting part right before worrying about the quality of service..." Amas
"So if you are listening to our podcast, he is not talking about you, he is talking about the other contact center professionals." - Bob
Amas and Bob welcome Caryn Fried and Glen Stoffel to the Contact Center Show to discuss the reality of soft skills.
Quotes
"People drive the success of contact centers. I had someone say to me this week - I think people are going away in contact centers. ChatGPT and the future of voice bots and digital bots will replace the human. But I disagree. Technology will never replace the humans in contact centers." "Professional Teams practice. If it looks effortless It didn’t come easy, the effortless is earned” "These skills are not soft skills, they are tough skills" Interactions are harder because we have scraped off most of the transactional contacts and sent them to an IVR, to self service, to chatbots… so what is left takes human intelligence - takes the ability to listen and think through solutions.
About our guests Glen Stoffel is a master Strategist and Co Founder of Camp 4 connect with Glen at https://www.linkedin.com/in/glen-stoffel/ Caryn Fried is a leadership development savant and CEO of Camp4, connect with Caryn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/caryn-fried/ https://camp4network.com/
Do you use social media to address your complaints or concerns with companies? What are the pros and cons of social service? Does anyone do it well? It is quite overwhelming to monitor the entire internet so where do you start?
“how would you feel if every decision you make privately on a contact center ends up on the front page of a newspaper or on facebook?”
"If it is written information, it is public:" - Amas
"Customers will figure it out...social is better" - Bob
And much more
Contact Amas and Bob.
http://linkedin.com/in/amastenumah/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobfurniss/
You dial a 1800# and it tells you someone will hold your place in line and call you back when it is your turn? Is someone actually holding your place in line?
Key Quotes:
"It allows you to not have to listen to Michael Bolton sing “when a man loves a woman for the thirteenth time.” Or even worse, here the “your call is important to us” for the 25th time!"
"Yes it is lipstick on a pig- but I am not sure you want your pig to walk around all the time with lipstick on - instead, only use the lipstick for special occasions." - Bob
Amas and Bob take a deep dive into the success of ChatGPT.
- Chatbots are not new, why is this one capturing hearts and mind?
- What the heck is a chatbot anyway?
- Why do most customers hate chatbots and will it change?
- Will it replace humans in the contact center?
- How do I start building a bot customers will want?
And much more
Contact Amas and Bob.
http://linkedin.com/in/amastenumah/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobfurniss/
The contact center may be the biggest melting pot in corporate America.
- Bob & Amas have 60+ years in the industry
- What does the contact center get right?
- Most incredible stories about contact centers
Memorable Quote:
“Did you lose your daughter? Are you a NARC?” - Bob
And much more
Contact Amas and Bob.
http://linkedin.com/in/amastenumah/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobfurniss/
Join Amas and Bob as they discuss eliminating phone calls from contact centers:
Before you join the movement to eliminate phone calls from your contact center you should listen to this.
Select quotes.
- "I think they are trying to kill the phone call because they're expensive...."
- "Is frontier airline the model for customer service?"
- "At the end of the day, if I think of the best phone call I have ever had with a customer service agent, I still wish had never happened...."
And much more
Contact Amas and Bob.
http://linkedin.com/in/amastenumah/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobfurniss/
Join Bob and Amas as they dive deep in how to deal with escalations:
- "I have always been intersted in the origin of the statement "the customer is always right", they must not work in service..."
- "In some ways I think the organization is creating escalations..."
- "I would love to be a supervisor in a call center and not be able to tell a lie....."
And much more
Contact Amas and Bob.
http://linkedin.com/in/amastenumah/"
https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobfurniss/
Join Amas and Bob as they discuss the dreaded message we all hear when calling for service.
What is done with my recording and transcripts at most contact centers?
Who owns the data?
Three things to change about the recording and quality assurance process.
Some quotes...
- "I don't think it's BS they are recorded but they're not listening to a lot of it..."
- "Here is what your agent hears after you tell them they scored 84...."
- "At the end of the day, the job you signed up for is an interaction between two people and how they FEEL about it..."
And so much more
Contact Amas and Bob.
http://linkedin.com/in/amastenumah/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobfurniss/
People blame most bad interactions on poor training.Is this true?
- The training blame game
- Who is the real culprit when service goes bad
- What is training actually good for
- Is empathy a skill or an emotion?
And much more...
Contact Amas and Bob.
http://linkedin.com/in/amastenumah/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobfurniss/
Ever had 100,000 people waiting in line and angry? You know it is your fault? Have you ever made all your coworkers mad? Today Bob Furniss and I discuss Workforce Management.
- Why WFM deserves more empathy
- Why WFM is a lot of art and a lot science
- Wat makes WFM such a complex job
And much more ...
Contact Amas and Bob.
http://linkedin.com/in/amastenumah/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobfurniss/
Tune in to hear...
“There are lies, there are damn lies and there are metrics!”
If you can’t measure it, you can’t manage it” - Dr Demin
- Why are there so many damn metrics in a Contact Center
- Is chasing Average Handle Time effective?
- Does Average Rate of Answer really matter?
And so much more!
Contact Amas and Bob.
http://linkedin.com/in/amastenumah/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobfurniss/
Notable quotes
"I miss my old job some days it was less chaotic. I used to be an ER Nurse and I am now a call center supervisor in Manila”
"I am a manager, a leader, a therapist, a coach, an arbitrator, a time manager, a workforce manager, a teacher, a quality..."
I was the best agent - I am now probably the most undertrained manager in the company with lots of responsibility and hats to wear!
Contact Amas and Bob.
http://linkedin.com/in/amastenumah/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobfurniss/
Notable quotes
“Every word you say and write is recorded and judged.”
“I took phone calls for the first time in the 90s and in many contact center they are still using the same screens I did.”
“The dentist is still using a chisel”
“We have been hearing about the demise of the contact center agent for 20 years”
“The human agent is not going away”
Contact Amas and Bob.
http://linkedin.com/in/amastenumah/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobfurniss/
"Which is worse? What if we had a zero abandon rate? OR What if we reduced service level?”
“Marketing claims it sets half of its budget on fire and keeps getting funding.”
“tell me why you matter? Tell me why we should spend more? "
Contact Amas and Bob.
http://linkedin.com/in/amastenumah/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobfurniss/
Amas and Bob continue the conversation about the evolution of the Contact Center:
- The heart of the Contact Center Agent
- Why is it the most scrutinized job in the company?
-
What the role should look like
-
Strategic positioning of contact center
- Implications of digital/remote to how we run contact centers?
- Do we need to track bathroom times
Amas and Bob continue the conversation about the evolution of the Contact Center:
- The heart of the Contact Center Agent
- Why is it the most scrutinized job in the company?
-
What the role should look like
-
Strategic positioning of contact center
- Implications of digital/remote to how we run contact centers?
- Do we need to track bathroom times
Bob and Amas break down exactly what the Contact Center is and is not:
- The term Call Center should be retired
- Implications of Remote Agents
Quotes:
“If you are still calling it a call center, I am judging you”
“If the Telephone is your only channel, you are doing it wrong"
“We are the contact center, the engagement center, the data center - and yes - the call center! We should have a strong impact on the company - no matter which channel the customer uses!”
And so much more!
Bob and Amas break down exactly what the Contact Center is and is not:
- The term Call Center should be retired
- Implications of Remote Agents
Quotes:
“If you are still calling it a call center, I am judging you”
“If the Telephone is your only channel, you are doing it wrong"
“We are the contact center, the engagement center, the data center - and yes - the call center! We should have a strong impact on the company - no matter which channel the customer uses!”
And so much more!
Amas and Bob are back discussing all things Contact Center. They combine their 50+ years of experience and humor to bring you actionable insights that will improve your Contact Center.
Call centers have an amazing history that is about 70 years old, hopefully you learned how we got here. Please join us
“Federal prisoners have more freedom than call center agents”
“Call centers were born from a lawsuit”
resources:
https://www.callcentrehelper.com/the-history-of-the-call-centre-15085.htm
https://www.specialtyansweringservice.net/the-history-of-the-call-center-infographic/
Amas and Bob are back discussing all things Contact Center. They combine their 50+ years of experience and humor to bring you actionable insights that will improve your Contact Center.
Call centers have an amazing history that is about 70 years old, hopefully you learned how we got here. Please join us
“Federal prisoners have more freedom than call center agents”
“Call centers were born from a lawsuit”
resources:
https://www.callcentrehelper.com/the-history-of-the-call-centre-15085.htm
https://www.specialtyansweringservice.net/the-history-of-the-call-center-infographic/
This conclusion to the Leadership Series offers great insights into reporting and Bob and Amas share their insights:
- Why the contact center is so metrics obsessed
- What is one of the main drivers of reporting
- What is the secret to calculating first call resolution
To learn more about Bob, Amas and the show visit www.contactcenter.tv
Feedback is key for service providers. Amas and Bob discuss the coaching:
- The reason coaching matters
- Formal versus informal feedback
- Specific tips you don't want to miss
Learn more about Amas and Bob at www.contactcenter.tv
Communication is a core skill of leadership and Bob and Amas discuss some important nuances, you will enjoy the following:
- The importance of a communication structure
- Efficiently managing your communication tools
- And yes, they have to give some time to Zoom
Learn more about Amas, Bob and the show at www.contactcenter.tv
Most managers focus on managing those who report to them, Amas and Bob have a great conversation about managing up and across. You enjoy the following:
- Why managing your manager is important
- When relationships at work really matter
- How do you handle the micromanager
Learn more about Bob, Amas and the show at www.contactcenter.tv
In this special edition during the National Breast Cancer Awareness Month, Amas talks with Bob about the heartbreaking story of the death of his 34-year-old daughter from Stage-4 Metastatic Breast Center. * Hear stories from Keesha's life and what led to the discovery of cancer. * Hear about her four-year battle, how she lived life out loud on social media, and how their primary focus was living her bucket list. * Hear how they turned their endless grief into a mission to save others by founding a nonprofit in her honor - Keesha Warrior Princess. * Find out how their hope can turn to action for yourself and others in your life.
Please visit warrior princess .org to learn more - and sign-up for free Self-check Reminder Cards for you or the women in your life. Consider requesting a package of free Self-Check Reminder Cards for your contact center or organization. Follow them on Facebook and Instagram at @KeeshaWarriorPrincess
Amas and Bob continue the Leadership series and discuss the following:
- Is it leadership vs. management or leadership and management?
- Failure serves a purpose
- Become an aggressive listener
And much more...
To learn more about Amas and Bob, check out www.contactcenter.tv
We're back!
Thank you for all your feedback from last season. Because you said you wanted it, we are diving deeper into the Contact Center world. Our first series this season will be on Leadership.
This episode focuses on time-management
- Is it even possible to get it all done?
- Where should coaching be prioritized on my list?
- Everything is URGENT, so....
And much more....
To learn more about Amas and Bob, visit www.contactcenter.tv
Amas and Bob reminisce about some past episodes
- Chatbots - the right questions to ask about implementing AI or your virtual assistant.
- Amas has evolved on a topic, can you guess which one?
- Leadership, you can develop them
And much more. Learn more about Amas, Bob and the show at www.contactcenter.tv
Amas and Bob have a great conversation this week and put training on trial:
- Why is training the panacea?
- Rethink training with the 'agent' as the center.
- The most effective way to coach.
And much more. To learn more about Bob, Amas and the show visit www.contactcenter.tv
Join Amas and Bob as they have an engaging conversation with top strategist Glenn Stoffel about...
- Glenn's story about his experience in the Contact Center
- Why is strategy so important in an organization
- How we tend to have a 'shoot first' approach to what is really a communications business
And much more...
Learn more about our guest Glenn Stoffel:
Glen Stoffel | LinkedIn
Amas and Bob have a great conversation about what is driving the future of customer service.
- What is the next great idea to win the hearts of minds of customer once convenience is solved.
- Amas shares a story about how SMS helped a hearing impaired person.
- Citizens are changing how states do business.
And much more. Learn more about Bob and Amas at www.contactcenter.tv
Amas and Bob have a great conversation about the following:
- Does the 'effortless experience' still apply today?
- Your customer experience efforts depend on where you are on the experience journey.
- They revisit chatbots to answers a listeners question.
And much more...
To learn more about Amas, Bob and the show, visit www.contactcenter.tv
Effortless Experience
No One Wants Customer Experience
Bob and Amas will entertain with this engaging conversation about:
- Why does CX still suck even though we have the data to show it.
- Your know your agents get yelled at, but do you know how much?
- Can voicemails help to shorten long wait times?
And much more...
To learn more about the Contact Center Show go to: www.contactcenter.tv
Bob and Amas have a great conversation about the following:
- What explains the small uptick in customer satisfaction?
- Contact center agents are also essential workers, or dare we say heroes?
- How do I tell if I am short staffed or if my agents are just inefficient?
And much much more...
To learn more about the show, go to: www.contactcenter.tv
Amas and Bob always have a great conversation. This week they discuss:
- Why stay in the contact center industry?
- What is "Ikijia"?
- Contact center leaders have a worse job satisfaction rate than contact center agents.
And so much more...
To learn more about Amas, Bob and The Contact Center Show, go to: www.contactcenter.tv
Amas and Bob have a great conversation about leadership. In this episode they discuss:
- Are great leaders born or nurtured?
- There is an opportunity you should always take if you want to be an effective leader
- What can you do to make flex scheduling work?
And much more...
To learn more about the show or Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss, go to:
www.contactcenter.tv
Amas and Bob combine their experience and humor to bring insights, methodology, and lessons that will impact your contact center career.
Amas and Bob discuss the customer experience and how to wow. In this session:
- Bob shares a story on how a person was wowed by guess what company...
- How do you really deliver empathy?
- Which is more important NPS or CSAT?
And much more...
To learn more about the show or Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss, go to:
www.contactcenter.tv
Amas and Bob have a great conversation about new approaches in the contact center, including:
- Matchmaking in the contact center, swipe left, swipe right!
- What are you optimizing for? MPS score, sales?
- What to do when your losing agents because they are bored?
And much more...
To learn more about the show or Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss, go to:
www.contactcenter.tv
In this episode, Amas and Bob discuss the following:
-
The monetization of the contact center
-
Is there a shift in the industry towards customer experience?
-
Which is more important CSAT or FCR
To learn more about Amas, Bob and The Contact Center Show, go to: www.contactcenter.tv
Amas and Bob discuss chatbots:
- With a 67% failure rate, is it worth it to keep them?
- What can be done about the disconnect with omnichannel?
- There is a secret to not worrying about your customer experience.
And much more...
To learn more about Amas, Bob and The Contact Center Show, go to: www.contactcenter.tv
In this episode, Amas and Bob discuss the following:
-
Most of the money and energy is around technology, processes and not the employee, is that a mistake?
-
The trickle up theory
-
What's the most important metric to watch in a contact center
To learn more about Amas, Bob and The Contact Center Show, go to: www.contactcenter.tv
Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss start the Contact Center Show to discuss new ideas, insights and all things call center. In their first episode the discuss:
-
The transition to work from home is not temporary
-
Have you heard of "customer promiscuity?"
-
The best place to find good benchmarking data
To learn more about Amas, Bob and The Contact Center Show, go to: www.contactcenter.tv