The Non-Anxious Leader Podcast: Recent Episodes

Jack Shitama

The Non-Anxious Leader Podcast focuses on your spiritual, emotional and physical well-being to help you be the best leader possible. Each episode explores research and practical tips to help you be a personal and professional non-anxious presence.

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It's getting harder and harder for us to work together across differences. Here's a family systems take on why, as well as what you can do about it.

Show Notes:

Can We Just Coexist? by Dennis Sanders

Future Christian Podcast

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The Eightfold Path is a core set of Zen Principles that can help you grow as a non-anxious presence.

Show Notes:

What is the Eightfold Path? | Zen-Buddhism.net

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Self-differentiation has a certain "Zen-ness" to it that I think is worth exploring. Here is my take.

Show Notes:

Seeing People as They Are - by Kathleen Smith (substack.com)

What do Zen Buddhists Believe? (zen-buddhism.net)

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Leadership through self-differentiation is counter-intuitive. Here are five things that well-intentioned leaders do, that non-anxious leaders do not.

Show Notes:

5 Well-Intentioned Behaviors That Can Hurt Your Team by Nihar Chhaya

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Self-management, self-awareness, social awareness and relationship management are all aspects of emotional intelligence that can help you be a non-anxious presence. Here’s how.

Show Notes:

Improving Emotional Intelligence (EQ)

Emotional Intelligence Toolkit

Quick Stress Relief

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Emotional intelligence and self-differentiation go hand-in-hand. This episode explains how it relates to family systems theory.

Show Notes:

EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE: AN OVERVIEW Dr. Manoranjan Tripathy

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Leading change inevitably involves dealing with resistance. Non-anxious leaders create healthy emotional space for difficult conversations. Here’s how.

Show Notes:

Calling People Forward Instead of Out: Ten Essential Steps by Justin Michael Williams and Shelly Tygielski

How We Ended Racism: Realizing a New Possibility in One Generation by Justin Michael Williams and Shelly Tygielski

Episode 264: 3 Ways Avoidance Increases Anxiety and 3 Things You Can Do About It

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Leading change inevitably involves dealing with resistance. Non-anxious leaders create healthy emotional space for difficult conversations. Here's how.

Show Notes:

Calling People Forward Instead of Out: Ten Essential Steps by Justin Michael Williams and Shelly Tygielski

Find out more about the FREE Jenny Brown Book Study.

How to be a non anxious person in this political season w/Jack Shitama - Minding the Gap | Podcast on Spotify

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Daniel Goleman is known for his Emotional Intelligence work. He described six leadership styles and when to use them. This episode interprets them from a family systems perspective.

Show Notes:

Leadership That Gets Results by Daniel Goleman

6 Common Leadership Styles — and How to Decide Which to Use When by Rebecca Knight

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The polarized presidential election is a major source of anxiety this year. Here's how you can buck the trend.

Show Notes:

How to survive another Trump-Biden election by Amanda Ripley

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Non-anxious leaders know how to take a healthy stand with those who make them anxious. Understanding non-violent communication can help.

Show Notes:

Cup of Empathy - Marianne van Dijk

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Emotional intelligence and self-differentiation go hand-in-hand. Here are six ways EQ can help you be a non-anxious leader.

Show Notes:

6 Super Effective Ways to Show Your Emotional Intelligence at Work by Marcel Schwantes

Episode 122: How Emotional Intelligence Helps You to Be a Non-Anxious Presence (Part 1 of 2)

Episode 123: How Emotional Intelligence Helps You to Be a Non-Anxious Presence (Part 2 of 2)

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Learning to self-differentiate in anxious situations doesn't come naturally. Understanding the science of performing under pressure can help.

Show Notes:

Thinking About the Consequences in the Moment of Decision from Admired Leadership Field Notes

The science of performing under pressure with Sian Beilock from the Re-Thinking Podcast with Adam Grant

The Science of Choking Under Pressure by Alyson Meister and Maude Lavanchy

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When we diagnose others, we avoid taking responsibility for self. Here's what that looks like and how we can do things better.

Show Notes:

Here's What Happens When We Stop Diagnosing Each Other by Kathleen Smith

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Many leaders who want to make an impact are people pleasers. Yet, this leads to over commitment and overwhelm. Here's how to stop.

Show Notes:

Cup of Empathy - Marianne van Dijk

Podcast Episode 230: How to Say "No" as a Non-Anxious Presence

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Non-anxious leaders have a confidence that is based in knowing their goals and values, as well as embracing humility, curiousity and courage. This is both attractive and influential. Here’s how it works.

Show Notes:

5 habits of confident people by Stephanie Vozza

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Complaining is not helpful to you or those you lead. Here's how to stop.

Show Notes:

The Happy Way to Drop Your Grievances by Arthur C. Brooks

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This episode explores why parents are so annoying to their children from a family systems standpoint. Understanding how to do things differently will make you a better parent and leader.

Show Notes:

What makes parents so annoying, even to their middle-aged children? by Carolyn Hax

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Patrick Lencioni's book, The Five Dysfunctions of a Team, helps you understand what makes for ineffective and effective teams. This episode tells you what you can do about it.

Show Notes:

The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni

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We use psychological avoidance to manage anxiety, yet it actually makes things worse. Here's how to recognize it and address it.

Show Notes:

Avoidance, not anxiety, may be sabotaging your life by Luana Marques

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Taking responsibility for self means not making assumptions about others are thinking. Here's what that looks like and how to do things differently.

Show Notes:

How Anxiety Distorts Your To-Do List by Kathleen Smith

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Self-differentiation is complicated. My own experience with my mother illustrates this.

Show Notes:

Hiroshima survivor tells her story as G7 world leaders meet in the Japanese city - CBS News

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Knowing the characteristics of a chronically anxious system, as well as the principles of leadership through self-differentiation makes all the difference.

Show Notes:

⁠A Failure of Nerve, Revised Edition: Leadership in the Age of the Quick Fix⁠ by Edwin Friedman

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Edwin Friedman's last book, A Failure of Nerve: Leadership in the Age of the Quick Fix, challenges us to lead differently. Here's how.

Show Notes:

A Failure of Nerve, Revised Edition: Leadership in the Age of the Quick Fix by Edwin Friedman

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I'm not a fan of New Year's resolutions. I AM a fan of getting better each year. Here's why and what has helped me.

Show Notes:

Get a FREE copy of One New Habit, One Big Goal: Change Your Life in 10 Weeks.

Get information and register for the FREE Friedman's Failure of Nerve Book Study.

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Overfunctioning and Underfunctioning go hand in hand. Here's what that looks like, as well as how you can find the sweet spot that creates healthy emotional space.

Show Notes:

Find out about Friedman's Failure of Nerve, a free course for non-anxious leaders.

There will be no episode on Christmas Day. The next episode will drop on January 1, 2024.

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Leadership and social norms are the two most important factors in organizational culture. Here's what you can do to improve yours.

Show Notes:

How to Fix a Toxic Culture (mit.edu)

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Guilt is not necessarily a bad thing. Knowing when it is or isn't can help you better self-differentiate.

Show Notes:

About Guilt - Emotional Intelligence for Life (ei-forlife.com) by Miriam Bross

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Seventy-six percent of people nearing the end of their lives say their biggest regret was living their lives according to other people and their expectations. This is surrounding togetherness pressure. Here’s what you can do about it.

Show Notes:

My apologies, as there are two spots in the episode where one channel drops out briefly.

The experience of regret: What, when, and why by Thomas Gilovich and Victoria Medvec

Episode 24: The Top Five Regrets of the Dying (and How to Avoid Them)

Anxious Church, Anxious People: How to Lead Change in an Age of Anxiety by Jack Shitama

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Self-differentiation doesn’t happen automatically. It’s even harder during the holidays when surrounding togetherness pressure can be high. This episode covers a four-step process that can help you remain a non-anxious presence when you express what you believe, feel, want and need.

Show Notes:

Alison Cook, Ph.D.

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You can't make another person responsible. If you're trying, you're likely doing it wrong. Here's why and how you can do better.

Show Notes:

Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue by Edwin Friedman

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The family systems concept of symmetry can help you observe and even predict patterns of functioning in a relationship system. It can also point toward where to find answers about system anxiety.

Show Notes:

Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue by Edwin Friedman

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Relationship systems get stuck when surrounding togetherness pressure makes it difficult for people to disagree. Here's what that looks like and how non-anxious leaders can create a culture of healthy disagreement.

Show Notes:

Emotionally Intelligent People Use a Brilliant 2-Word Phrase to Speak Up and Get Results by Justin Bariso

Solomon Asch Conformity Line Experiment Study by Saul Mcleod, PhD

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What do you do when you respond to another in ways that are hurtful? This episode shows that you can not only repair the relationship, you can make it better.

Show Notes:

Becky Kennedy: The single most important parenting strategy | TED Talk

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Self-differentiation means that you are able to manage your own anxiety without involving others. This episode unpacks what this does (and doesn't) look like.

Show Notes:

Being the Captain of Your Own Ship by Kathleen Smith

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Nobody lives in a vacuum. Surrounding togetherness pressure influences people in both negative and positive ways. Here’s how you, as a leader, can use it to make things better.

Show Notes:

The Lazy Way To An Awesome Life by Eric Barker

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Leadership through self-differentiation is counterintuitive. Here are five evidence-based reasons why it’s effective.

Show Notes:

5 insights from behavioral science that can make you better at influencing others from Fast Company

Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman

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A paradox in leadership is that we think we can control more than we actually can. This leads to micromanaging, which is more damaging than helpful. This episode shows how leadership through self-differentiation is different and more effective.

Show Notes:

How to Solve the Leadership Paradox | Inc.com by David Finkel

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The functioning of any relationship system is dependent on the level of self-differentiation among its members. In this two-part episode, I unpack a schema developed by Daniel V. Papero of the Bowen Center for the Study of the Family.

Show Notes:

Developing a systems model for family assessment. Family Systems: A Journal of Natural Systems Thinking in Psychiatry and the Sciences. 13, 2, 2018 by Daniel V. Papero.

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The functioning of any relationship system is dependent on the level of self-differentiation among its members. In this two-part episode, I unpack a schema developed by Daniel V. Papero of the Bowen Center for the Study of the Family.

Show Notes:

Developing a systems model for family assessment. Family Systems: A Journal of Natural Systems Thinking in Psychiatry and the Sciences. 13, 2, 2018 by Daniel V. Papero.

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Your self-talk is important. It can either hold you back or move you forward. Self-differentiation can increase when you change these five phrases.

Show Notes:

A Neuroscientist Explains Why These 5 Phrases Are Holding You Back and What to Say Instead | Inc.com by Minda Zetlin

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Whether it's raising kids or leading an organization, a non-anxious leader is interdependent, not independent. This episode covers why that matters and how you can do better.

Show Notes:

Forget independence. Teach your kids this instead. By Jennifer Breheny Wallace

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There is a sweet spot in self-differentiation between defining self and staying emotionally connected. When we go astray, we end up trying to change others or letting others change us. This episode shows you how you can do better.

Show Notes:

The Space Between Changing Each Other by Kathleen Smith

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Our movement toward "therapeutic culture" has made people less resilient. This episode explains how that happened and what you can do about it as a leader.

Show Notes:

Hey, America, Grow Up! by David Brooks Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website.

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Self-differentiation requires the ability to self-regulate, then act in accordance with your goals and values. Here's how mindfulness can help you do this.

Show Notes:

5 Rituals To Keep You Happy All The Time by Eric Barker

Why I Invited Myself to a Wedding by Jack Shitama

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Self-differentiation is more than just being a non-anxious presence in anxious situations. It’s about building deeper, healthier relationships. This episode shows you how.

Show Notes:

The conversational habits that build better connections by David Robson

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Many, if not most of us, procrastinate. However, for some this can really be disruptive. Psychologists suggest that childhood trauma can be at the root of procrastination. This episode unpacks that concept from a family systems perspective.

Show Notes:

How Procrastination Can Reflect Childhood Experience by Peg Streep

Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue
by Edwin Friedman*

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Non-anxious leaders know the importance of boundaries and how to set them. This episode can help you do this better.

Show Notes:

Your boundaries set you free by Brian Stout

Episode 230: How to Say “No” as a Non-Anxious Presence

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Self-differentiating, taking responsibility for self, can be hard when others respond by defining and blaming you. This is sabotage. Here are three steps to respond effectively.

Show Notes:

Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue
by Edwin Friedman*

A Failure of Nerve: Leadership in the Age of the Quick Fix by Edwin Friedman*

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According to Edwin Friedman, one of the characteristics of a chronically anxious society is the desire to seek safety instead of adventure. Non-anxious leaders seek adventure and learn to love it. Here's how.

Show Notes:

The Light We Carry: Overcoming in Uncertain Times by Michelle Obama

A Failure of Nerve, Revised Edition: Leadership in the Age of the Quick Fix by Edwin Friedman


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We often focus on what others should be doing as a way to manage our own anxiety and avoid taking responsibility for self. Here's what defining others looks like and how we can do better.

Show Notes:

How We End Up Fixating On Others' Immaturity by Kathleen Smith

Episode 211: Level 5 Leaders and Self-Differentiation

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How often does surrounding togetherness pressure cause you to second guess yourself? Self-differentiation increases confidence because you trust yourself more. Here's how it works.

Show Notes:

Dr. Alison Cook

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We were planning to host our family over Memorial Day Weekend for my Mom's 100th Birthday when my wife and I tested postive for COVID. Here's how we handled it.

Show Notes:

Episode 183: A COVID Family Reunion – A Case Study

CBS News Story on my Mom

Picture from our 2023 Family Reunion

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If you want to make an impact, you have do things that are important, but not urgent. This means being able to say "No" to many things. Here's how to do it.

Show Notes:

Cup of Empathy by Marianne van Dijk

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Non-anxious leaders know how to create and maintain healthy emotional space in their relationships. This episode explains what that is, why it's important and how to do it.

Show Notes:

The Cycle of Overfunctioning and Distancing by Kathleen Smith

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An emotionally mature culture is a non-anxious culture. Systems that function this way are more resilient and adaptive in the face of inevitable challenges. Here's how you can foster this kind of culture.

Show Notes:

The Emotionally Mature Organization from The Bowen Center's "Family Matters" series.

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Edwin Friedman described five characteristics of systems that promote burnout among their leaders. Understanding this can help you avoid the same fate. Part 1 goes through the characteristics. Part 2 helps leaders respond appropriately.

Show Notes:

Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue

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Edwin Friedman described five characteristics of systems that promote burnout among their leaders. Understanding this can help you avoid the same fate. Part 1 goes through the characteristics. Part 2 helps leaders respond appropriately.

Show Notes:

Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue

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Focus is being able to say "No" to things things that are good, but may distract you from your most important work. Here are three ways to say "No" that will help you to self-differentiate.

Show Notes:

3 Ways to Say No Without Feeling Like a Jerk, Backed by Interpersonal Relationship Science by Jeff Haden

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To grow as non-anxious leader, you need to learn how to self-differentiate in your most difficult relationships. This episode covers five things that will help you to do this.

Show Notes:

How to Set Boundaries With a Difficult Family Member by Catherine Pearson

Set Boundaries, Find Peace: A Guide to Reclaiming Yourself by Nedra Glover Tawwab

Drama Free: A Guide to Managing Unhealthy Family Relationships by Nedra Glover Tawwab

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Being a non-anxious presence doesn't come naturally. Here's what you can do to better prepare for difficult situations.

Show Notes:

People With High Emotional Intelligence Use 5 Simple Words to Become Exceptionally Persuasive by Bill Murphy Jr.

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Understanding emotional process helps us to see how people deal with uncertainty and anxiety. This enables us to be less anxious and judgmental, as well as more compassionate. This episode shows you how.

Show Notes:

The Circle of Why by Kathleen Smith

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Trust is a key factor in effective leadership. This episode shows how leadership through self-differentiation makes this possible.

Show Notes:

7 common qualities of credible people by Gwen Moran

The SPEED of Trust: The One Thing That Changes Everything by Stephen M.R. Covey

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Learning to deal with challenges, whether external or self-inflicted, involves taking responsibility for self. When we do this we increase our ability to respond to change and uncertainty.

Show Notes:

The episode incorrectly notes it was recorded on Sunday, March 25 but, in fact, was recorded on Sunday, March 26.

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How we respond to challenge and crisis is a big factor in whether we will survive and even thrive. These three factors come from a lecture that Edwin Friedman gave in 1985.

Show Notes:

Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue

The Center for Family Process

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A Non-Anxious Leader knows the difference between a threat and a boundary. This episode goes through five differences, as described by Marianne van Dijk, and unpacks the family systems elements of each.

Show Notes:

cupofempathy.com

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The United Methodist Church is on the verge of splitting over human sexuality. This is Part 3 of my conversation with Rev. Loren Richmond Jr. on his Future Christian Podcast. Loren asked me to join him to discuss The UMC from a family systems perspective. Loren also asks me some interesting questions, such as, what I would do if I were Pope for a day.

Show Notes:

Future Christian Podcast

My first appearance on Future Christian Podcast from 2020

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The United Methodist Church is on the verge of splitting over human sexuality. This is Part 2 of my conversation with Rev. Loren Richmond Jr. on his Future Christian Podcast. Loren asked me to join him to discuss The UMC from a family systems perspective.

Show Notes:

Future Christian Podcast

My first appearance on Future Christian Podcast from 2020

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website. 

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The United Methodist Church is on the verge of splitting over human sexuality. This is Part 1 of my conversation with Rev. Loren Richmond Jr. on his Future Christian Podcast. Loren asked me to join him to discuss The UMC from a family systems perspective.

Show Notes:

If you want to fast forward

Background on The UMC 10:03

A family systems take on the current conflict 18:07

Future Christian Podcast

My first appearance on Future Christian Podcast from 2020

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It's good to be optimistic but toxic positivity takes it to the extreme. This episode unpacks what it is and what you can do to avoid it.

Show Notes:

This Is the Best Way to Support a Stressed-Out Person, According to Research by Jessica Stillman

What Is Toxic Positivity? By Kendra Cherry

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website. 

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Anxious people want a quick fix. Non-anxious leaders know this is not the answer. Here's why, as well as how you can respond to challenge in a way that will make a difference.

Show Notes:

How to avoid the most seductive leadership mistake by Ed O'Malley and Julia Fabris McBride

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website. 

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Research shows that feelings of inauthenticity can lead to immoral behavior. This episode show how this relates to self-differentiation and surrounding togetherness pressure, as well as what you can do about it.

Show Notes:

Could Bringing Your “Whole Self” to Work Curb Unethical Behavior? from KelloggInsight

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website. 

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Jim Collins says that personal humility and professional will are what separate great leaders from the rest. This episode explains what that means and how it relates to self-differentiation.

Show Notes:

Level 5 Leadership: The Triumph of Humility and Fierce Resolve by Jim Collins

Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap and Others Don't by Jim Collins

Family Systems 101 - A FREE online course

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website.

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Emotional labor has gotten a lot of attention lately, especially in relation to gender equity. Here's how to understand it in family systems terms.

Show Notes:

The Concept Creep of ‘Emotional Labor’ by Julie Beck

Family Systems 101 - A FREE online course

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Maintaining a non-anxious presence in anxious situations is challenging. Here's what you can learn from one of sport's most pressure-filled moments.

Show Notes:

A Psychologist Spent Five Years Studying World Cup Penalty Shootouts by Ben Cohen

Family Systems 101 - A FREE 11-Week Course

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website. 

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Being able to handle situations where others lose their cool is an essential leadership skill. Here's how to do it.

Show Notes:

This Is How To Have Emotionally Intelligent Arguments: 4 Secrets by Eric Barker

Talking to 'Crazy': How to Deal with the Irrational and Impossible People in Your Life by Mark Goulston

Episode 206: How to Be a Non-Anxious Presence

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If you want to make an impact in this world, you need to be able to do what's important but not urgent. Whether you want to improve your health, write a book or run a marathon, the same principles apply. Here's how they've worked for me.

Show Notes:

Get your FREE ecopy of One New Habit, One New Goal: Change Your Life in 10 Weeks(no email address required)

The ONE Thing: The Surprisingly Simple Truth Behind Extraordinary Resultsby Gary Keller and Jay Papasan

The Healthy Habit Revolution: The Step by Step Blueprint to Create Better Habits in 5 Minutes a Day by Derek Doepker

The Power of Small Wins by Teresa M. Amabile and Steven J. Kramer

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website.

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Dialectical Behavioral Therapy helps people with extreme reactivity. Here's how it can help you to be a non-anxious presence.

Show Notes:

How to calm your inner storm by Sheri Van Dijk

Non-Violent Communications Feelings Inventory

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Non-anxious leaders have a confidence that is based in knowing their goals and values, as well as embracing humility, curiousity and courage. This is both attractive and influential. Here's how it works.

Show Notes:

5 habits of confident people by Stephanie Vozza

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website. 

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A non-anxious leader understands how emotions spread and how to be a positive influence. This episode is a rebroadcast of Episode 133: Emotions Are Contagious - Here's What You Need to Know. It's been re-titled because it focuses mainly on how to be a non-anxious presence when others are unhappy.

Show Notes:

Those Who Share a Roof Share Emotions by Arthur C. Brooks

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Self-differentiation is the ability to define your own goals and values, express them in healthy ways AND remain emotionally connected to the most anxious in the relationship system. Here are eight ways that you can fall short, along with strategies to do better in the future.

Show notes:

Minding the Gaps in Our Own Maturity by Kathleen Smith


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The triangle is the most stable form of human relationship. Learning to recognize a triangle and how to manage it is essential to being a non-anxious leader.

Show Notes:

Kathleen Smith, PhD, LPC

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Understanding the nuances of emotional process will make you a better leader. These four tips will help.

Show Notes:

The Center for Family Process

The Center for Pastoral Effectiveness in the Rockies

The Family Systems Institute

The Bowen Center for the Study of the Family

Tending the Fire

Lombard Mennonite Peace Center


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Surrounding togetherness pressure makes it hard to self-differentiate. Understanding how this works and how you can respond will help you to be a non-anxious leader.

Show Notes:

Dr. Kathleen Smith


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The political, cultural and theological divisions continue to widen. A non-anxious leader understands why AND how to respond.

Show Notes:

The Center for Family Process

Only My Opinion Counts: Myside Bias by Jamie Hale, M.S.

The Bias That Divides Us: The Science and Politics of Myside Thinking by Keith E. Stanovich


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Self-differentiation is acting in accordance with your goals and values, especially in anxious moments. This episode shows you how, as well as what to do when you don't.

Show Notes:

Anxious Church, Anxious People: How to Lead Change in an Age of Anxiety

If You Met My Family, You'd Understand: A Family Systems Primer


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The emotional intensity that comes from being super-serious can turn a challenge into a problem. Likewise, when we react automatically to the anxiety of others, it can make a bad situation worse. This episode digs into why this is the case and what you can do about it.

Show Notes:

Anxious Church, Anxious People: How to Lead Change in an Age of Anxiety

If You Met My Family, You'd Understand: A Family Systems Primer

Triggers: Creating Behavior That Lasts--Becoming the Person You Want to Be by Marshall Goldsmith


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Recognizing emotional process will not only help you avoid getting stuck, it will enable you to persist through the inevitable sabotage that comes when you are leading change.

Show Notes:

Anxious Church, Anxious People: How to Lead Change in an Age of Anxiety

If You Met My Family, You'd Understand: A Family Systems Primer


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The key to effective leadership is the ability to remain a non-anxious presence. Understanding triangles, as well as how to manage them, makes this easier.

Show Notes:

Anxious Church, Anxious People: How to Lead Change in an Age of Anxiety

If You Met My Family, You'd Understand: A Family Systems Primer


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We often hide in the safety of groups rather than risk the vulnerability of self-differentiating in one-on-one interactions. Here's why, as well as how you can do better.

Show Notes:

De-clumping Our Relationships by Kathleen Smith PhD


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Anxiety feels bad but there's a reason for this. Once we're able to understand this, we can experience its benefits. Here's how.

Show Notes:

It’s time to reframe our thoughts around anxiety. Here’s how to use it productively

Future Tense: Why Anxiety Is Good for You (Even Though It Feels Bad) by Tracy Dennis-Tiwary PhD


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Emotional intelligence and self-differentiation go hand-in-hand. Here are six ways EQ can help you be a non-anxious leader.

Show Notes:

6 Super Effective Ways to Show Your Emotional Intelligence at Work by Marcel Schwantes

Episode 122: How Emotional Intelligence Helps You to Be a Non-Anxious Presence (Part 1 of 2)

Episode 123: How Emotional Intelligence Helps You to Be a Non-Anxious Presence (Part 2 of 2)

Family Systems 101


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Self-differentiation doesn't happen automatically or from just studying family systems theory. It takes regular reflection and preparation so you act with integrity in moment of choice. These questions can help you.

Show Notes:

Becoming More Responsible to a Chaotic World (May 26, 2022) by Dr. Kathleen Smith

Family Systems 101


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Dr. Michael Kerr, who studied under Murray Bowen, identifies two levels of self-differentiation. Here's what they are and why they matter to the non-anxious leader.

Show Notes:

Interview with Michael Kerr 2007 from the Family Systems Institute

Dr. Michael Kerr

Family Systems 101 - A FREE 11-week course


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"Panic," a fable from Friedman's Fables, illustrates the importance of taking responsibility for self as a non-anxious leader.

Show Notes:

Friedman's Fables by Edwin Friedman


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Self-differentiation is about knowing your own goals and values, which builds resiliance. Here's the research that shows why.

Show Notes:

How To Be Resilient: 5 Secrets To Success When Life Gets Impossible by Eric Barker


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Not all forms of self-sacrifice are created equal. Self-differentiation is a healthy way to give yourself to others. You'll be a better and happier leader. Here's how.

Show Notes:

Helping others might feel good, but is it really good for you? by T Ryan Byerly

Leaders Eat Last: Why Some Teams Pull Together and Others Don't by Simon Sinek


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Non-anxious leaders say what they believe while giving others the freedom to disagree. New research shows why this matters.

Show Notes:

When Political Discussions Get Heated, Is It Best to Just Stay Out of It? from Kellogg Insight


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The inability to self-differentiate as a leader takes its toll. Here's the research behind why this is so.

Show Notes:

Fake It Until You Make It? Not So Fast: How we compensate when we can’t be our authentic selves from Kellogg Insight


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Self-differentiated leaders take responsbility for themselves (and no one else). Here are three strategies to help you do this.

Show Notes:

Why this type of self-discipline will make you a better leader by Jody Michael

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website. 


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All families are dysfunctional. Self-differentiation isn't always standing up to surrounding togetherness pressure. Here's my experience at a family reunion.

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website. 


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Non-Violent or Compassionate Communication not only helps us to express our unmet needs, it also helps us to listen to others to identify their unmet needs.

Show Notes:

Episode 181: A Family Systems Take on Non-Violent (or Compassionate) Communication – Part 1 (rebroadcast)

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website. 


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Marshall Rosenberg developed Non-Violent Communication to better express our own needs and better understand the needs of others. This episode looks at how this complements family systems theory and can help non-anxious leaders communicate more effectively.

Show Notes:

The Center for Non-Violent Communication “Feelings Inventory”

The Center for Non-Violent Communication “Needs Inventory”


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When you can't be yourself in the workplace you are more likely to burnout. Here's how to bring your whole self to work.

Show Notes:

Susan David on Bringing Our Whole Selves to Work by Susan David, Ph.D.

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website. 


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Healthy emotional space is essential to healthy relationships. This episode goes through the ways that you can make it possible.

Show Notes:

Join the Non-Anxious Leader Network

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Nobody likes to be told what to do. Motivational interviewing is a more effective approach. Here's how it works.

Show Notes:

This Is How To Get People To Change: 5 Secrets From Research by Eric Barker

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The ability to be a non-anxious presence is an expression of both wisdom and self-differentiation. This episode explores the connection between the two.

Show Notes:

The World Needs Wisdom: Here’s How to Activate Yours by Barbara Waxman

Episode 108: Five Steps to Better Self-Regulation

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Anxious situtations can lead to a conflict of wills, which will get you stuck. Here's how to remain a non-anxious presence.

Show Notes:

8 Phrases That Help Us Communicate More Effectively by Marina Khidekel

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Nobody lives in a vacuum. Surrounding togetherness pressure influences people in both negative and positive ways. Here's how you, as a leader, can use it to make things better.

Show Notes:

The Lazy Way To An Awesome Life by Eric Barker

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Asking for help is not a sign of weakness or incompetence. Non-anxious leaders are able to be open and vulnerable in ways that deepen emotional connection. This episode shows you how.

Show Notes:

How to ask for help by Debbie Sorensen

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website. 


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Leadership through self-differentiation is counterintuitive. Here are five evidence-based reasons why it's effective.

Show Notes:

5 insights from behavioral science that can make you better at influencing others from Fast Company

Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website.


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The COVID-19 pandemic has disrupted daily living for almost everybody. This kind of change requires us to understand loss, grief and how to manage anxiety. This episode was originally broadcast in April 2020. It's still relevant today.

Show Notes:

That Discomfort You’re Feeling Is Grief by Scott Berinato

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website. 


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This episode was originally broadcast in 2020 at the beginning of the pandemic. It's message is still relevant. 

In Matthew 28:1-10, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary, face change, uncertainty and fear. The parallels to the current COVID-19 crisis are unmistakable. Their response can help us find hope.

Show Notes:

That Discomfort You’re Feeling Is Grief by Scott Berinato

The Liturgists Podcast: You Are Safe

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Feelings are contagious. Understanding mirror neurons sheds light on the power of a non-anxious presence.

Show Notes:

What are Mirror Neurons? Reviewed by Kate Anderton, B.Sc.

Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue by Edwin Friedman


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Leaders need to understand the triangles and resistance involved in leading dependent people. This episode shows you what that looks like and how to lead as a non-anxious presence.

Show Notes:

Episode 98: Non-Anxious Leaders Understand Paradox and Playfulness

Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue by Edwin Friedman

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website.


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This episode shows how self-compassion helps you self-differentiate, as well as four steps to develop self-compassion.

Show Notes:

Being Kind to Yourself from Hidden Brain

Self-Compassion: The Proven Power of Being Kind to Yourself by Kristin Neff

Fierce Self-Compassion: How Women Can Harness Kindness to Speak Up, Claim Their Power, and Thrive by Kristin Neff, Jean Ann Douglass, et al.

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website.


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Every system has interlocking triangles. This episode uses a case study from Edwin Friedman's Generation to Generation to explain how they work and how to unlock them.

Show Notes:

Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue by Edwin Friedman

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website.


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In this episode I break down a case study from Generation to Generation that highlights how paradox and playfulness can lead to lasting change.

Show Notes:

Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue by Edwin Friedman

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website.


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The Friedman's Fable, "Burnout," is both humorous and instructive. Here's my take on the family systems dynamics of burnout, as well as how to avoid it.

Show Notes:

Friedman’s Fables by Edwin Friedman

Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue by Edwin Friedman


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"The Magic Ring" from Friedman's Fables highlights the upside of being able to act freely without fear. This episode shows you how this works in real life.

Show Notes:

Friedman’s Fables by Edwin Friedman

A Failure of Nerve: Leadership in the Age of the Quick Fix by Edwin Friedman

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website.


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The Friedman's Fable, "Attachment," uses a mythical culture to describe attachment in the extreme. Listen to the fable and my take on how it applies to leadership.

Show Notes:

Friedman's Fables by Edwin Friedman

Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue by Edwin Friedman

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website.


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Leadership through self-differentiation creates the conditions for people to speak their minds. This leads to a healthier system and a better chance to lead positive change.

Show Notes:

Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue by Edwin Friedman

Family Systems 101 Preview

SIGN UP for Family Systems 101

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website.


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Empathy is important but has its downsides. Leadership through self-differentiation sees empathy as a step toward compassion, which can help others learn and grow.

Show Notes:

Connect with Empathy, But Lead with Compassion by Rasmus Hougaard, Jacqueline Carter, and Marissa Afton

Episode 48: Envy, Empathy and Emotional Connection

ZOOM link for the Family Systems 101 Preview (Tuesday, February 8, 2022, 7pm EST)

Join the FREE Family Systems 101 Course (11 Tuesdays from February 22, 2022 to May 3, 2022, 7-8:30pm EST)

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Reactivity and adaptivity are automatic responses like software. This episode will help you reprogram your behavior so you can exercise integrity in the moment of choice.

Show Notes:

This Is How To Have Emotionally Intelligent Relationships: 4 Secrets From Research by Eric Barker

The Interpersonal Problems Workbook: ACT to End Painful Relationship Patterns by by Matthew McKay PhD, Patrick Fanning, Avigail Lev PsyD, Michelle Skeen PsyD

Family Systems 101 Preview Link (Tuesday, February 8, 2022, 7pm EST)

Sign Up for Family Systems 101

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website.


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Edwin Friedman described 11 tensions in leadership. This episode explains them so you can use them as a guide to leading through self-differentiation.

Show Notes:

Leadership through Self-Differentiation, a home video of an Edwin Friedman divinity school lecture.

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website. 


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Seventy-six percent of people nearing the end of their lives say their biggest regret was living their lives according to other people and their expectations. This is surrounding togetherness pressure. Here's what you can do about it.

Show Notes:

The experience of regret: What, when, and why by Thomas Gilovich and Victoria Medvec

Episode 24: The Top Five Regrets of the Dying (and How to Avoid Them)

Anxious Church, Anxious People: How to Lead Change in an Age of Anxiety by Jack Shitama

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website.


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The primitive part of our brain makes it possible for us to get addicted to anxiety and worry. This episode breaks it down, as well as how to break the habit.

Show Notes:

Unwinding Anxiety: New Science Shows How to Break the Cycles of Worry and Fear to Heal Your Mind by Judson Brewer, MD, PhD

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website.


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Chronic emotional patterns are sustained by reactive or adaptive responses. Breaking the cycle requires self-awareness and intentionality to do something different. Here's how.

Show Notes:

Sign up for The Non-Anxious Leader Email list.

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website. 


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Chronic emotional patterns are sustained by adaptive or reactive feedback. Understanding how this works is the first step toward responding as a non-anxious presence.

Show Notes:

Triggers: Creating Behavior That Lasts–Becoming the Person You Want to Be by Marshall Goldsmith

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website. 


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Self-differentiation doesn't happen automatically. It's even harder during the holidays when surrounding togetherness pressure can be high. This episode covers a four-step process that can help you remain a non-anxious presence when you express what you believe, feel, want and need.

Show Notes:

Alison Cook, Ph.D.

Subscribe to The Non-Anxious Leader email list

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website.


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Over one quarter of Americans have an estranged family member. This makes the holidays extremely difficult. Learning to manage this can also help you to grow as a non-anxious leader.

Show Notes:

How to grieve estranged family and friends during the holidays by Christina Wyman

Episode 135: Emotional Cutoff – What It Is and How to Deal with It

Center for Pastoral Effectiveness of the Rockies

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The holidays can be stressful even without annoying family members. This episode will help you prepare so you can be a non-anxious presence.

Show Notes:

Use these job skills to deal with your most difficult family members this holiday season by Gwen Moran

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website.


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The characteristics of an authentic leader show that self-differentiation and authenticity go hand-in-hand. It all comes down to taking responsibility for self. This episode shows you how.

Show Notes:

Discovering Your Authentic Leadership by Bill George , Peter Sims , Andrew N. McLean and Diana Mayer

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website.


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Self-differentiation is more than just being a non-anxious presence in anxious situations. It's about building deeper, healthier relationships. This episode shows you how.

Show Notes:

The conversational habits that build better connections by David Robson

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website.


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No matter how much family systems theory you know, self-regulating in the moment is the key to putting it into practice. This episode will help you do this so you can self-differentiate in anxious interactions.

Show Notes:

How to Be Happier Without Really Trying by Eric Barker

Pocket Therapy for Emotional Balance: Quick DBT Skills to Manage Intense Emotions by Matthew McKay PhD, Jeffrey C. Wood,PsyD and Jeffrey Brantley MD

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website.


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Narcissists are great at self-definition but not emotional connection. Understanding the difference between this and self-differentiation will help you as a non-anxious leader.

Show Notes:

Narcissism from Wikipedia

How to identify narcissists at work—and when to avoid them by Art Markman, PhD

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website.


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Chinese philosophy takes a different approach to parenting than most of us are used to. Here's a family systems take that can help the non-anxious leader.

Show Notes:

How Chinese philosophy can help you parent by Erin Cline

Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue by Edwin Friedman

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Existential anxiety is a sign that you want to make things better but you're feeling surrounding togetherness pressure. Here's how you can manage it and actually use it in your favor.

Show Notes:

How to be anxious by David Egan

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This episode is a presentation from the Family Systems Book Study that puts family systems theory in context for the non-anxious leader.

Show Notes:

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website.


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A conflict of wills gets you stuck. This approach will help you move forward towards a more productive conversation.

Show notes:

New Neuroscience Reveals 7 Secrets That Will Make You Emotionally Intelligent by Eric Barker

Conflicted: How Productive Disagreements Lead to Better Outcomes by Ian Leslie

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Edwin Friedman described five characteristics of systems that promote burnout among their leaders. Understanding this can help you avoid the same fate. Part 1 goes through the characteristics. Part 2 helps leaders respond appropriately.

Show Notes:

Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue

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Edwin Friedman described five characteristics of systems that promote burnout among their leaders. Understanding this can help you avoid the same fate. Part 1 goes through the characteristics. Part 2 helps leaders respond appropriately.

Show Notes:

Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue

Join the FREE Family Systems Book Study

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A scapegoat gives individuals and society someone to blame. This episode unpacks the family systems principles at work.

Show Notes:

A Cow, A Lantern, and a Myth: Mrs. O'Leary and 19the Century Immigrants in Chicago

The O'Leary Legend

Scapegoating minorities is an unfortunate reality of history by Grady Atwater

Join the FREE Family Systems Book Study

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Self-differentiation is different than being selfish. This episode explains the difference.

Show Notes:

Healthy Selfishness and Pathological Altruism: Measuring Two Paradoxical Forms of Selfishness by Scott Barry Kaufman and Emanuel Jauk

Join the FREE Family Systems Book Study

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Authenticity is the path to developing as an effective leader. This episode breaks down how this relates to leadership through self-differentiation.

Show Notes:

Discovering Your Authentic Leadership by Bill George, Peter Sims, Andrew N. McLean, and Diana Mayer.

Join the FREE Family Systems Book Study.

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Understanding emotional process enables leaders to know when they should engage in a conversation and when there is something else going on. This episode explains the difference.

This is the audio of Chapter 5, "Process Not Content," from my book, If You Met My Family, You'd Understand: A Family Systems Primer. You can find all 10 chapters of the book in Episodes 56-65 of this Podcast.

Show Notes:

If You Met My Family, You'd Understand: A Family Systems Primer

FREE Family Systems Books Study in The Non-Anxious Leader Network

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When we are uncomfortable with another, we often avoid dealing directly with that relationship by triangling a third person or issue. Understanding how triangles work and how to deal with them is essential to healthy functioning.

This is the audio of Chapter 4 on Triangles from my book, If You Met My Family, You'd Understand: A Family Systems Primer. You can find all 10 chapters of the book in Episodes 56-65 of this Podcast.

Show Notes:

If You Met My Family, You'd Understand: A Family Systems Primer

FREE Family Systems Books Study in The Non-Anxious Leader Network

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The difference between happy and unhappy people is how they respond to pain and suffering. This episode unpacks the family systems concepts involved.

Show Notes:

This Is The Most Fun Way To Make Your Life Awesome by Eric Barker

The Redemptive Self: Stories Americans Live By by Dan P. McAdams

Episode 128: How to Grow Stronger Emotionally

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Emotional cutoff is not uncommon in families, congregations and organizations. This episode helps you recognize it and manage it.

Show Notes:

Emotional Cutoff The Bowen Center for the Study of Family

Episode 103: The Magnet Theory of Emotional Distance

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Surrounding togetherness pressure doesn't always come from others. Our desire to please can cause anxiety. Here's one example and how I dealt with it.

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A non-anxious leader understands how emotions spread and how to be a positive influence. This episode breaks it down.

Show Notes:

Those Who Share a Roof Share Emotions by Arthur C. Brooks

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Remaining a non-anxious presence with someone who is frustrated creates healthy emotional space. This episode shows you how.

Show Notes:

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website.


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Avoiding a conflict of wills and taking responsibility for self are two essential elements in responding when you make a mistake. I share my own experience in this episode.

Show Notes:

Read the Full Transcript on The Non-Anxious Leader website.


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If servant leadership is about serving those you lead, then how does a self-differentiated leader do this? Part 2 goes through the second five characteristics of a servant-leader to show you how.

Show Notes:

Ten Characteristics of a Servant-Leader by Larry Spears

A Failure of Nerve: Leadership in the Age of the Quick Fix by Edwin Friedman

Putting God First Means Family Comes Before Work by Jack Shitama

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If servant leadership is about serving those you lead, then how does a self-differentiated leader do this? Part 1 goes through the first five characteristics of a servant-leader to show you how.

Show Notes:

Ten Characteristics of a Servant-Leader by Larry Spears

Episode 35: Sabotage and Empathy (What Works and What Doesn’t)

Episode 48: Envy, Empathy and Emotional Connection

Episode 90: How Self-Awareness and Intentionality Foster Self-Differentiation

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Glennon Doyle said, "Pain is not to be chosen, not to be avoided." I break this statement down in family systems terms to show how this is the path to self-differentiation and emotional strength.

Show Notes:

Glennon Doyle and Brené on Untamed - Unlocking Us with Brené Brown

How do you help a grieving friend? by Megan Devine

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Self-differentiation includes both self-definition and self-regulation. This episode breaks down what this looks like and how to keep things in balance.

Show Notes:

Differentiation of Self: To Be or Not to Be? A Presentation by Mindy S. Reynolds

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This episode looks at the pseudo-self vs. the basic self, as well as the three-legged stool of self-differentiation.

Show Notes:

Differentiation of Self: To Be or Not to Be? A Presentation by Mindy S. Reynolds

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This look at self-differentiation comes from the Bowen school of family systems theory. I give my take on how it can help you grow as a non-anxious presence.

Show Notes:

Differentiation of Self: To Be or Not to Be? A Presentation by Mindy S. Reynolds

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Self-management, self-awareness, social awareness and relationship management are all aspects of emotional intelligence that can help you be a non-anxious presence. Here's how.

Show Notes:

Improving Emotional Intelligence (EQ)

Emotional Intelligence Toolkit

Quick Stress Relief


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Emotional intelligence and self-differentiation go hand-in-hand. This episode explains how it relates to family systems theory.

Show Notes:

EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE: AN OVERVIEW  Dr. Manoranjan Tripathy

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Trying too hard to motivate the unmotivated can result in resistance. Here's a family systems take using a story from Friedman's Fables.

Show Notes:

Friedman's Fables

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Projection is an emotional process that is one of the four automatic responses to system anxiety. Understanding how it works and how to recognize it will help you as a non-anxious leader.

Show Notes:

Friedmans's Fables by Edwin Friedman

Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue by Edwin Friedman

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If we don't self-regulate we can end up responding automatically to system anxiety. This episode explains the possible responses and how to respond differently.

Show notes:

The Bowen Center for the Study of Family

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Resilience enables you to be a non-anxious presence in difficult situations so you can respond with your best self. This episode covers the research behind resilience, as well as four steps to becoming more resilient.

Show Notes:

How People Learn to Become Resilient by Maria Konnikova

Episode 92: You Can Change Your Environment or You Can Change Yourself – A Look at Edwin Friedman’s Take on Toxicity and Response

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Mindfulness teaches us to stay focused on the present without judgment. Here's how you can use this to self-regulate more effectively.

Show Notes:

Podcast Episode 49: Hot States, Cold States and Self-Regulation (Part 1 of 2)

Podcast Episode 50: Hot States, Cold States and Self-Regulation (Part 2 of 2)

Viktor Frankl quote

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Marshall Rosenberg uses Non-Violent or Compassionate Communication to resolve conflicts with children. This episode looks at his process through the lens of family systems theory.

Show Notes:

Marshall Rosenberg - Resolving Conflicts with Children #‪1‬

Marshall Rosenberg - Resolving Conflicts with Children #‪2‬

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When we make our well-being dependent on someone else's functioning we set up a conflict of wills. "Soaring" from Friedman's Fables can help us understand why.

Show Notes:

Friedman's Fables

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While others may panic during anxious times, non-anxious leaders are able to focus on taking responsibility for self.

Show Notes:

Friedman's Fables

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Enabling hypersenstive people will result in their feeling entitled, which will take its toll on us. This episode shows how to handle things more effectively.

Show notes:

Friedman's Fables

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"'Round in Circles" from Friedman's Fables illustrates the problems with focusing on what other people should do.

Show Notes:

Friedman's Fables by Edwin Friedman

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Edwin Friedman's book, Friedman's Fables, is an entertaining way to learn family systems theory. In this episode, I read the first fable, "The Bridge," and unpack the concept of the leverage of the dependent.

Show Notes:

Friedman's Fables by Edwin Friedman

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Knowing the difference between different types of conflicts and how to handle them is key to being a non-anxious leader. This episode shows you how.

Show Notes:

3 Types of Conflict and How to Address Them by Katie Shonk

Think Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don't Know by Adam Grant

The Science of Reasoning With Unreasonable People by Adam Grant

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Self-differentiation is sometimes confused with selfishness. This episode looks at the concepts of ego and ego-strength to show the difference.

Show Notes:

Egomania vs. ego strength by Seth Godin

Ego Versus Ego-Strength: The Characteristics of a Healthy Ego and Why It's Essential to Your Happiness by Athena Staik, Ph.D.

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Encounters with anxious people can make it difficult to control one's own reactivity. These five steps can help you better self-regulate.

Show Notes:

How to Keep Your Cool in High-Stress Situations by Robert E. Quinn, David P. Fessell, and Stephen W. Porges

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A creative minority can change things for the better. Leadership through self-differentiation makes this possible.

Show Notes:

On Creative Minorities by Jonathan Sacks

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Leading through self-differentiation will result in a loyal opposition. This is a good thing and will help you be your best.

Show Notes:

The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: A Leadership Fable by Patrick Lencioni

Episode 35: Sabotage and Empathy (What Works and What Doesn’t)

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Societal regression occurs when anxiety increases due to the inability to handle change. This episode looks at the characteristics in light of recent events.

Show Notes:

A Failure of Nerve: Leadership in the Age of the Quick Fix

Podcast Episode 28: How to Take a Leadership Stand on Controversial Issues (including a Family Systems take on Donald Trump’s Leadership Style)

Podcast Episode 44: Four Rules for Political Discourse (and another look at Donald Trump’s leadership style)

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This episode covers a repeatable process for developing positive habits to improve your spiritual, physical and professional lives.

Show Notes:

Get your FREE ecopy of One New Habit, One New Goal: Change Your Life in 10 Weeks

The ONE Thing: The Surprisingly Simple Truth Behind Extraordinary Resultsby Gary Keller and Jay Papasan

The Healthy Habit Revolution: The Step by Step Blueprint to Create Better Habits in 5 Minutes a Day by Derek Doepker

The Power of Small Wins by Teresa M. Amabile and Steven J. Kramer

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Non-anxious leaders create healthy emotional space. The magnet theory helps to understand what this looks like and how to do it.

Show Notes:

Episode 102: The Problem with Emotional Intensity

The Non-Anxious Leader Network

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Emotional intensity can serve as a clue to the emotional process in a system. This episode starts with examples in child-focused families and then shows how this can help the non-anxious leader.

Show Notes:

Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue

The Non-Anxious Leader Network

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The children's story, Bread and Jam for Frances, has all the components of family systems theory. This episode breaks it down.

Show Notes:

Bread and Jam for Frances by Russell Hoban

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Non-Violent or Compassionate Communication not only helps us to express our unmet needs, it also helps us to listen to others to identify their unmet needs.

Show Notes:

Episode 99: A Family Systems Take on Non-Violent (or Compassionate) Communication - Part 1

Family Systems Book Study in The Non-Anxious Leader Network

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Marshall Rosenberg developed Non-Violent Communication to better express our own needs and better understand the needs of others. This episode looks at how this complements family systems theory and can help non-anxious leaders communicate more effectively.

Show Notes:

The Center for Non-Violent Communication "Feelings Inventory"

The Center for Non-Violent Communication "Needs Inventory"

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Edwin Friedman maintained that paradox and playfulness were important to maintaining a non-anxious presence. The leverage of the dependent and the conflict of wills are key concepts to understanding how this works.

Show Notes:

Friedman's Fables by Edwin H. Friedman

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Discerning and communicating vision is your most important role as a leader. Doing this well creates focus, as well as reduces anxiety. Understanding family sysytems theory will help you deal effectively with resistance.

A note: near the end I say "A little humilty never helps." I meant to say, "A little humility never hurts." 

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Resilience not only promotes growth, it enables a leader to maintain a non-anxious presence when facing challenge. Understanding resilience will help you do this more effectively.

Show Notes:

Episode 92: You Can Change Your Environment or You Can Change Yourself – A Look at Edwin Friedman’s Take on Toxicity and Response

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Moral convictions are important. However, if they aren't managed properly they can have negative consequences. Understanding how they work can help you avoid the negatives so you can be a non-anxious leader.

Show Notes:

Moral Combat - Hidden Brain Podcast

Moral Conviction by Linda J. Skitka, Ph.D.

Episode 85: Facts, Beliefs and the Non-Anxious Leader

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Fusion is the loss of self to the norms of another individual or group. Understanding how it works can help the non-anxious leader recognize and avoid a herd mentality.

Show Notes:

The Center for Family Process

Definitions from Bowen Theory from The Family Systems Institute

Bowen Theory & Concepts from The Bowen Theory Education Center

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Many high achievers suffer from imposter syndrome. Looking at one's own family of origin and taking responsibility for self can help.

Show Notes:

Imposter syndrome - Wikipedia

Mindset: The New Psychology of Success by Carol Dweck, Ph.D

The Secret Thoughts of Successful Women: Why Capable People Suffer From the Impostor Syndrome and How to Thrive in Spite of It by Valerie Young, Ed.D

Imposter Syndrome - Psychology Today

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Edwin Friedman said that the strength of toxicity in a system could be expressed as hostile environment divided by the response of the organizm (HE/RO). This episode unpacks what this means for the non-anxious leader.

Show Notes:

Toxicity and Response by Edwin Friedman

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The characteristics of an authentic leader show that self-differentiation and authenticity go hand-in-hand. It all comes down to taking responsibility for self.

Show Notes:

Discovering Your Authentic Leadership by Bill George , Peter Sims , Andrew N. McLean and Diana Mayer

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This episode defines self-awareness and intentionality, as well as how they help us work towards self-differentiation.

Show Notes:

What Self-Awareness Really Is (and How to Cultivate It) by Tasha Eurich

Intention and Intentionality, The Coaching Room

Episode 35: Sabotage and Empathy (What Works and What Doesn’t)

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Being and belonging are essential to who we are. According to mimetic theory, the way we go about this is more harmful than helpful. Working toward self-differentiation can help.

Show Notes:

Secrets about People: A Short and Dangerous Introduction to René Girard by Alex Danco

The Key to Move from Imitation to Differentiation: How Mimetic Theory Unlocks the Workplace by David Gornoski and J. Lenora Bresler

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Goal Direction and self-differentiation go hand-in-hand. This episode explores what this looks like and how it applies to leadership.

Show Notes:

The Bowen Center Professional Lecture Series Podcast, Goal Direction and Family Functioning, Philip Klever, MSW.

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What works for Donald Trump as a leader will not likely work for the rest of us. Understanding the ways he increases anxiety can help you to be more effective as a non-anxious leader.

Show Notes:

Podcast Episode 28: How to Take a Leadership Stand on Controversial Issues (including a Family Systems take on Donald Trump’s Leadership Style)

Podcast Episode 44: Four Rules for Political Discourse (and another look at Donald Trump’s leadership style)

Revisionist History Presents: The Limits of Power

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Understanding the difference between worry, stress, anxiety and excitement can help leaders remain a non-anxious presence in the most challenging moments.

Show Notes:

The Difference Between Worry, Stress and Anxiety by Emma Pattee

A Bundle of Nerves - Choiceology Podcast with Katy Milkman

Get Excited: Reappraising Pre-Performance Anxiety as Excitement by Alison Wood Brooks

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Non-anxious leaders say what they believe while giving others the freedom to disagree. Understanding how belief functions makes this easier.

Show Notes:

Belief in the Brain by Allison Bond


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Edwin Friedman described a set of tensions that every leader faces. Understanding context and emotional process helps the non-anxious leader navigate these effectively.

Show Notes:

Leadership through Self-Differentiation, a home video of an Edwin Friedman divinity school lecture.


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Rites of passage are times when the emotional intensity makes it possible for people to grow in their capacity to self-differentiate. It requires recognizing the emotional process at work and responding appropriately. My family is going through just such a time. It makes a great case study.


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Keeping things in perspective is essential for the non-anxious leader. This episode unpacks three important of perspectives that make it easier to be a non-anxious presence.

Show Notes:

Episode 49: Hot States, Cold States and Self-Regulation (Part 1 of 2)

Episode 50: Hot States, Cold States and Self-Regulation (Part 2 of 2)

Leadership through Self-Differentiation, a home video of an Edwin Friedman divinity school lecture.


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Knowing that norms, values and patterns of behavior are transmitted from generation to generation can help you to take anxiety and resistance less personally. This will help you remain a non-anxious presence.


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The uncertainty and disruption caused by the COVID-19 pandemic can create a persistent, low-level anxiety that affects one's ability to be a non-anxious leader.

Show Notes:

Episode 67: Six Ways to Manage Anxiety

Episode 68: Self-Acceptance Leads to Self-Differentiation


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As with many things in family systems theory, self-differentiation requires holding the tension between self-definition and emotional connection.

Show Notes:

WorkLife with Adam Grant – Bonus: Relationships at work with Esther Perel


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The Broadway production of Hamilton has some great examples of people-pleasing and narcissism. Here's why self-differentiation is neither.

Show Notes:

WorkLife with Adam Grant - Bonus: Relationships at work with Esther Perel

Hamilton despised slavery but didn’t confront George Washington or other slaveholders by Gregory S. Schneider


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Having compassion for and staying connected to those with whom you disagree is not likely to change their mind. It does keep open the possibility for new opportunities.


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David Brubaker writes that leading in a politically polarized age requires clarity, compassion, courage and connection. Those characteristics reflect the essence of leadership through self-differentiation.

Show Notes:

Leading in an Age of Political Polarization by David R. Brubaker

The Non-Anxious Leader: Family Systems Basics, July 1-28, 2020


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This rebroadcast is more relevant in the renewed fight against racism. Spiral dynamics is a model that helps us understand both human and societal development. The challenge of the 21st century is finding unity in the midst of ever-growing diversity. Understanding family systems can help.

Show Notes:

Stages of Social Development: The Cultural Dynamics that Spark Violence, Spread Prosperity, and Shape Globalization by Don Edward Beck, Ph. D.

The Liturgists Podcast, Episode 5: Spiral Dynamics

Fr. Richard Rohr – The One and The Many


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When faced with a difficult decision avoid the impulse to react, stay focused on your mission, weigh the downside risk, and look for stop signs. Then make your choice and own it.

Show Notes:

Episode 71: Save Your Energy for the Important Decisions

Chasing Daylight: Seize the Power of Every Moment by Erwin McManus


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A key difference between Edwin Friedman and Murray Bowen is the concept of Sabotage. Both would agree on the emotional process involved, but Bowen never used the term. This episode explains why.

Show Notes:

Bowen and Friedman: Two Systems Thinkers from The Bowen Center for the Study of Family Podcast

The Non-Anxious Leader Network


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Family systems practitioner Jenny Brown uses the term maturity to describe self-differentiation. I take two paragraphs from her book and distill out three hallmarks of self-differentiation.

Show Notes:

Growing Yourself Up: How to bring your best to all of life's relationships by Jenny Brown

The Non-Anxious Leader Network


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Not every decision is created equal. Knowing how to manage your decision-making energy will make you more confident, less anxious, and will leave you more energy for the big decisions.

Show Notes:

Successful people like Barack Obama and Mark Zuckerberg wear the same thing every day — and it's not a coincidence from Business Insider

The Choices Before Us: Can Fewer Options Lead To Better Decisions? from Hidden Brain Podcast


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The uncertainty created by the COVID-19 pandemic is like "the fog of war." Non-anxious leaders embrace this uncertainty in a way that helps those they lead do their best work.

Show notes:

A Crisis Leadership Lesson, an interview with General Stanley McChrystal, The Masters of Scale Rapid Response Podcast. This link has all episodes on one page. To find the McChrystal interview, scroll down. You can also download a transcript.

7 Successful Battle Strategies to Beat COVID-19 by Euvin Naidoo


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Working from home is even more challenging when it's 24/7 and you share the space with others. Understanding how to adjust your routines to make it work will get you through.

Show Notes:

This is my office cubbyhole in the basement.


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Self-acceptance comes from self-understanding and self-compassion. This is easier said than done. It begins with awareness and intentionality and ultimately leads to taking responsibility for self.

Show Notes:

The Path to Unconditional Self-Acceptance by Leon F Seltzer Ph.D.

Therapists Spill: 12 Ways to Accept Yourself by Margarita Tartakovsky, M.S.

This is my blog post that includes the Nick Saban quote, "So what? Now what?" Lessons from Lifelong Kindergarten.

Learn about Don Clifton and the strengthfinders movement.


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The COVID-19 pandemic has disrupted daily living for almost everybody. This kind of change requires us to understand loss, grief and how to manage anxiety.

Show Notes:

That Discomfort You’re Feeling Is Grief by Scott Berinato


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In Matthew 28:1-10, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary, face change, uncertainty and fear. The parallels to the current COVID-19 crisis are unmistakable. Their response can help us find hope.

Show Notes:

That Discomfort You’re Feeling Is Grief by Scott Berinato

The Liturgists Podcast: You Are Safe


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Finding a therapist or coach, doing a genogram and family timeline, and listening to family stories can help you work toward greater self-differentiation. It's a life's work.


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Relating to anxious people is a challenge. Your best tools are recognizing emotional process, then using paradox and playfulness. 


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Self-regulation is the key to keeping your own anxiety in check, as well as to reducing the anxiety level in the system. A simple way to do this is to listen.


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Change in a system will bring resistance in the form of sabotage. Learning how to recognize it and how to deal with it can result in change that lasts.


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It's the conflict of wills in a system that creates anxiety. Self-differentiation reduces this. It also helps us to deal with those who are emotionally dependent and try to hold us hostage.


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Understanding emotional process distinguishes when it's helpful to engage in the content of the matter and when it's best avoided. This is simple, but not easy. 


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When we are uncomfortable with another, we often avoid dealing directly with that relationship by triangling a third person or issue. Understanding how triangles work and how to deal with them is essential to healthy functioning. 


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All change is loss, which can involve grief and pain. However, it also presents an opportunity for growth.


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There is a difference between a challenge and a problem. Life is filled with challenges. They only become problems when we can't handle them. How we respond to a challenge influences whether it will become a problem. 


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I have decided to serialize my upcoming book, which is a family systems primer. Each week I'll read one chapter, finishing right around the book's release. This chapter is a reminder about what's important in life.


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The recent announcment by Prince Harry and Meghan to step back from the Royal Family provides a look into the Windsor family of origin. As with all families, intergenerational transmission and surrounding togetherness pressures are evident. Learning from their situation can help the rest of us grow as leaders.

Show notes:

The British royal family is struggling through scandals. Can ‘The Crown’ help? by Adrian Higgins

Fact-checking ‘The Crown’: Is Prince Charles really pushed around by an unfeeling royal family? by Michael S. Rosenwald


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If the Protocol for Separation in The United Methodist Church passes, it will require many congregations to have difficult discussions. Doing so in a way that minimizes surrounding togetherness pressure gives the congregation the best chance to do so in a healthy way.


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One of the most popular episodes focuses on a fundamental family systems concept. Self-differentiation is the key to effective leadership.

Show Notes:

Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue by Edwin Friedman


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A rule of thumb for dealing with anxious people and anxious situations is, "Don't argue. Don't agree. Stay connected." Deflection can help you do this.

Show Notes:

How to Deflect Difficult Questions in an Interview or Negotiation by Brad Bitterly and Maurice E. Schweitzer


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This episode shares helpful research on how to make an effective apology. More importantly, it unpacks why this is important for the non-anxious leader. It's about taking responsibilty for self.

Show Notes:

Dr. Joseph Bentley's website Taming Wicked Problems

Freakonomics Episode 353: How to Optimize Your Apology

Success Story: Robert Fulghum vs. Beethoven by Joseph C. Bentley Ph.D

Join The Non-Anxious Leader Network (it's FREE)


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Different parts of our brain are responsible for how we respond to anxious situations. Understanding how they function can help us better self-regulate.

Show Notes:

The Concept of the "Triune Brain" by Andreas Komninos 

THE EVOLUTIONARY LAYERS OF THE HUMAN BRAIN from mcgill.ca

Amygdala hijack from Wikipedia

Getting to Know Your Three Brains (five part series) by Hilary Jacobs Hendel, LCSW

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Part 5


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The Hot-Cold empathy gap predicts that our actions will not be what we think unless we are in the same emotional state. Understanding this can help us better prepare for anxious situations so we can be a non-anxious presence.

Show Notes:

In The Heat Of The Moment: How Intense Emotions Transform Us from Hidden Brain

Empathy Gap from Wikipedia

Real Versus Imagined Gender Harassment by Julie Woodzicka and Marianne Lafrance

Anxious Church, Anxious People: How to Lead Change in an Age of Anxiety by Jack Shitama


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Comparing ourselves to others often results in envy. This sometimes drives us to get better, but has significant downsides. Understanding how envy and empathy work can help us have healthy emotional connections in the systems in which we function.

Show Notes:

Feeding the Green-Eyed Monster: What Happens When Envy Turns Ugly from Hidden Brain

Schadenfreude (Merriam-Webster)

Empathy Is Tearing Us Apart by Robert Wright (Wired)

Identity and Emergency Intervention: How Social Group Membership and Inclusiveness of Group Boundaries Shape Helping Behavior by Mark Levine, et. al.


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The most effective leaders do a year-end review. Here are three approaches, including the one that I use. Doing a year-end review will take you about an hour. It will not only help you make the most of your 2019 experiences, it will help you prepare to get a great start in 2020.

This month's theme in The Non-Anxious Leader Network is "Reflection." If you're not a member, join our free community to reflect on 2019 and focus on what matters most to you in 2020.

Show Notes:

Forget New Year’s Resolutions and Conduct a ‘Past Year Review’ Instead by Tim Ferriss

Advice for Entering the New Year: The Yearly Review by Matt Perman

Reviewing the Past Year & Looking Ahead to the Coming Year by Kathy Paauw

One New Habit, One Big Goal: Change Your Life in 10 Weeks by Jack Shitama


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Sharing "origin" stories and family narratives makes a family stronger. The holidays are an especially good time to make this happen. Whether you're asking the right questions or sharing your stories, doing this will help everybody relax and connect with each other.

Join the Non-Anxious Leader Network (it's FREE).

Show Notes:

The Psychology Behind Superhero Origin Stories by Robin Rosenberg

The Stories That Bind Us by Bruce Feiler


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Yuval Noah Harari maintains that the greatest threat to freedom is the myth of free will. This episode examines free will to understand how we can better self-regulate in anxious situations.

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Show Notes:

The Myth of Freedom by Yuval Noah Harari


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Effective leaders are able to say what they believe while giving others the freedom to disagree. The Gottman Institute offers four rules to guide political discussions. Arthur C. Brooks offers these to help end what he describes our culture of contempt. This episode unpacks these from a family systems perspective, as well as takes another look at President Donald Trump's leadership style in the midst of an impeachment inquiry.

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Show Notes:

Gottman’s Four Rules for a Better America by Michael Fulwiler of The Gottman Institute

Love Your Enemies: How Decent People Can Save America from Our Culture of Contempt by Arthur C. Brooks

Episode 35: Sabotage and Empathy (What Works and What Doesn’t)


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Criticism, Contempt, Defensiveness and Stonewalling are signs that a relationship is going downhill. Maintaing self-differentiation and a non-anxious presence can turn things around.

Show Notes:

The Four Horsemen: Criticism, Contempt, Defensiveness, and Stonewalling by Ellie Lisitsa of The Gottman Institute

The Four Horsemen: The Antidotes by Ellie Lisitsa of The Gottman Institute


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Trust is a key leadership competency. Developing a culture of trust requires trusting self, then trusting others.

Show Notes:

Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue by Edwin Friedman

The Fundamental Attribution Error

Switch: How to Change Things When Change Is Hard by Chip and Dan Heath

The Moral Molecule: How Trust Works by Paul J. Zak


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Bill Selby is the founder of the Center for Pastoral Effectiveness for the Rockies. He has been training clergy for 20 years to apply family systems theory in their leadership. In this segment, he discusses how to stay connected to anxious people, how to avoid isolation, and the impact of change.

Show Notes:

Center for Pastoral Effectiveness of the Rockies


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Bill Selby is the founder of the Center for Pastoral Effectiveness of the Rockies. In this segment, he talks about how to deal with sabotage in the context of a church meeting.


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Bill Selby is the founder of the Center for Pastoral Effectiveness of the Rockies. He has been training clergy in how to be a non-anxious leader since 1999. This is part one of a three part interview. In today's segment, Bill shares the importance of staying connected, process and content, and identifying healthy leaders.


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Spiral dynamics is a model that helps us understand both human and societal development. The challenge of the 21st century is finding unity in the midst of ever-growing diversity. Understanding family systems can help.

Show Notes:

Stages of Social Development: The Cultural Dynamics that Spark Violence, Spread Prosperity, and Shape Globalization by Don Edward Beck, Ph. D.

The Liturgists Podcast, Episode 5: Spiral Dynamics

Fr. Richard Rohr – The One and The Many


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The word "parenting" first appeared in the late 1950's. Developmental psychologist Alison Gopnik maintains that parenting is a bad idea. Parent is a noun, not a verb. This has important implications for leaders who want to help others be their best.

Show Notes:

Alison Gopnik’s Advice to Parents: Stop Parenting! by Peter Gray, Ph.D., Psychology Today.

What Kind Of Parent Are You: Carpenter Or Gardener? by Sasha Ingber, NPR

The Gardener and the Carpenter: What the New Science of Child Development Tells Us About the Relationship Between Parents and Children by Alison Gopnik

'Free Range' Parenting's Unfair Double Standard by Jessica McCrory Calarco, The Atlantic


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We sometimes think we have more control than we do. At other times we underestimate the amount of control we have. Knowing the difference is an important leadership competency.

Show Notes:

Choiceology: Season 4 Episode 1

Keeping the illusion of control under control: Ceilings, floors, and imperfect calibration by Francescas Gino, Zachariah Sharek and Don Moore


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Being able to recognize and respond effectively to emotional sabotage is essential for leading change. Empathy is good, except when it's not. This episode helps to unpack the difference.

Show Notes:

The following episodes are helpful in further understanding how to respond to sabotage:

Episode 19: Self-Regulation–the Key to Being a Non-Anxious Presence

Episode 26: How to Handle It When You Are Anxiously Attacked


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Emotionally dependent people require others to make them feel loved and validated. Giving in to their demands holds us hostage. Understanding how this works, as well as how self-differentiation is a way forward is an essential leadership skill.

Show Notes:

Are You Too Emotionally Dependent on Your Partner? by Leon F. Selzer Ph.D.


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This episode is a bit personal. Two recent occurrences reminded me that I'm different. The rise of xenophobia is a global phenomenon. Responding in self-differentiated ways to those who emphasize differences in negative ways is the best chance we have to build a more civil and hope-filled world.

Show Notes:

Does Fear Motivate Workers — or Make Things Worse? from KNOWLEDGE@WHARTON

Fear and Hoping: Adding hope to health messages may motivate better behaviorsfrom Penn State News


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The emotional triangle is the most stable form of human relationship. This is because most of the time we are not able to appropriately deal with tension or stress in a two-person relationship. This episode gives examples of triangles, explains how they are formed and maintained, and shows you how to deal with being triangled.

Show Notes:

Episode 19: Self-Regulation--The Key to Being a Non-Anxious Presence


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"People aren't afraid of change, they're afraid of loss (Sandy Shugart)." Understanding this can help leaders show people how to face the pain of loss directly. This develops strength and results in growth.


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The difference between a challenge and a problem is how we handle it. Anxiety, our own and that of others, is the key factor. Remaining a non-anxious presence will help us and those we lead to rise up to challenges and not make them problems.


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This episode is an example of why it's important to be flexible. My personal travels and a case of stupidity caused it to drop a day late. Here's what I learned from it, and how it can help you.

Show Notes:

Episode 23: Musings from Thailand on Self-Differentiation

Stewart Butterfield's bio


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As a leader, people want to know where you stand. Learning how to do this in a healthy way creates the possibility for conversations that can lead to effective change.

Show Notes:

Gun Reform: Speaking Truth to Bullshit, Practicing Civility, and Effecting Change by Brene Brown

Trump's Chaos Theory by Lance Morrow

What’s Wrong with Donald Trump’s Chaos Theory of Power? by Michael A. Genovese


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The healthy way to stand up for yourself is to take a non-anxious emotional stand. Avoid reactivity by not arguing and not agreeing. Understanding family systems theory will help you do this.

Show notes:

Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue by Edwin Friedman


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Remaining a non-anxious presence when someone unleashes their anxiety on you is a challenge. The best response is don't argue, don't agree. This requires the ability to self-regulate your own anxiety. This episode explores the best way to do this.

Show Notes:

Glossary of Family Systems Terms from The Center for Family Systems Theory of Western New York

Triggers: Creating Behavior That Lasts--Becoming the Person You Want to Be by Marshall Goldsmith


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Pain is not something to be avoided. It is a part of life and can help us grow. Research on physical pain shows that there can be positive consequences. The same is true for emotional pain. 

Show Notes:

The Positive Consequences of Pain: A Biopsychosocial Approach by Brock Bastian, Jolanda Jetten, Matthew J. Hornsey and Siri Leknes


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On our deathbed, most of our regrets will be things we left undone. Four of the top five are so-called regrets of inaction. Looking at them from a family systems perspective will help to avoid them.

Show Notes:

This article from Cornell summarizes Tom Gilovich's work on regret.

The Top Five Regrets of the Dying: A Life Transformed by the Dearly Departed by Bronnie Ware


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Food is a proxy for culture, and culture is a system with its own set of unwritten rules that can create surrounding togetherness pressure. Getting outside of our own culture can help us to better self-differentiate.

Show notes:

Here is a recipe using turmeric marinated tofu.

The egg I described in this episode is called a Century Egg.


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The overnight success is a myth, or at best a rarity. The rest of us have to work at it. Regardless of what you do, there is a proven approach to making an impact.

Show Notes:

Domino Chain Reaction, a YouTube video by Stephen Morris. It's only 2-1/2 minutes, and well worth watching.

The ONE Thing: The Surprisingly Simple Truth behind Extraordinary Results by Gary Keller and Jay Papasan

Drip by Drip and the Thunderclap by Seth Godin

Fear of Shipping by Seth Godin

Episode 5: Procrastinating Smartly and Moving Quickly, which explains the concept of the minimum viable product.


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Engaging in a difficult conversation takes preparation to enable one to be a non-anxious presence. These techniques will help you to prepare, get started and remain a non-anxious presence.

Show Notes:

Difficult Conversations: How to Discuss What Matters Most by Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton, Sheila Heen and Roger Fisher


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There are three potential conversations that go on in our heads when we are having a difficult conversations: What happened, feelings and identity. Understanding how these work and what to do about them is essential to being a non-anxious presence in challenging interactions.

Show Notes:

This podcasts references material from Difficult Conversations: How to Discuss What Matters Most by Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton, Sheila Heen and Roger Fisher.


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Remaining a non-anxious presence, especially in anxious situations, is the key to effective leadership. This is hard to do. You will feel anxious inside. Learning to regulate your own anxiety can help you be your most effective.


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In family systems theory, pain is an opportunity for growth. Our culture promotes pain avoidance and seeking the quick fix. Sometimes the only way to find growth is through a crisis.


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Very few organizations are able to sustain effectiveness over the long haul. It requires a balance between planning and adapting to changing circumstances, both of which are needed for innovation and execution. Procter and Gamble is an example of a company that has been able to change with the times.

Show Notes:

This article from the American Chemical Society documents P&G's history and how it became a technology company.

This Harvard Business School article about P&G is a case study on strategic management.

The original Fortune 500 from 1955.

This the FREE strategic paper I wrote, Five Steps to Jump Start Congregational  Change.


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Brene Brown uses the acronym "BRAVING" to describe how to build trust in relationships. Trust is key to effective leadership. Understanding Brown's take from a family systems perspective is helpful in learning to be a non-anxious presence.

Show Notes:

Brene Brown's talk on the Anatomy of Trust

The SPEED of TRUST: The One Thing that Changes Everything, by Stephen M.R. Covey


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Is a messy desk or clean desk better for productivity and creativity? The answers might surprise you. The results from different studies help us to understand, from a family systems perspective, how we can help the team we work with do their best work.

Show Notes:

Why Google Encourages Having a Messy Desk, from Business Insider

Science Explains What the State of Your Desk Says About You, from Fast Company

Got a Messy Work Desk? Study Reveals What Your Coworkers Really Think of You, from Fast Company

Why Every Office Should Scrap Its Clean Desk Policy, from Ted.com

Results Only Work Environment website from Co-Founder Jody Thompson


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Leadership is hard. Things go wrong (a lot). Responding as a non-anxious presence is a key to effective leadership. Sometimes, it's in the worst situations that people can produce their best work.

Show Notes:

Success Story: Keith Jarrett and the “Unplayable” Piano by Joseph C. Bentley, Ph.D

The Koln Concert album.


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Understanding the relationship between rules, values and motivation can help you as a leader. This is true for any organization, especially those that are mission-based. 

Show Notes

This article from Business Insiderdocuments one of the Zappos' record calls. Here is Zappos' own post about the call, including a video interview with the customer service rep.

This article highlights Southwest Airlines' customer service.

This is the post from The Center for Parenting Education on values-based parenting.

More from Zappos on their customer obsessed culture.

Another article from Business Insider about how Southwest puts its employees first.


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The benefits of gratitude are proven. But how can one be both grateful and ambitious? It's clear that holding these concepts in their proper perspective is an important aspect of leadership.

Show Notes:

Here are two articles about gratitude from Psychology Today:

7 Scientifically Proven Benefits of Gratitude

Do Gratitude Journals Really Work? 4 New Gratitude Findings

From Pediaa.com:

What is the Difference Between Ambition and Aspiration

The books I mentioned:

Imagination of the Heart: New Understandings in Preaching by Paul Scott Wilson

Mindset: The New Psychology of Success by Carol Dweck

Getting Things Done: The Art of Stress-Free Productivity by David Allen

The ONE Thing: The Surprisingly Simple Truth Behind Extraordinary Results by Gary Keller and Jay Papasan


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Remaining a non-anxious presence when someone unloads their anxiety on you is extremely difficult. Learning how emotional process works can give you the perspective to help you be calm. It can also help you to focus on how to respond to reduce the anxiety of the situation, as well avoid taking responsibility for other people's issues.

Show Notes:

Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue. This is dense reading. But, it is the definitive work on how to be a non-anxious leader.

The Bowen Center for the Study of Family. This links to a brief primer on family systems theory.


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Understanding how to use the placebo effect and commitment devices can increase your productivity as a leader. This is especially helpful in developing daily routines, which are a series of habits to help you start your day off right and get your most important work done.

Show Notes:

Here are three articles on the Placebo Effect:

Placebos Prove So Powerful Even Experts Are Surprised; New Studies Explore the Brain's Triumph Over Reality (New York Times)

More Than Just a Sugar Pill: Why the placebo effect is real (Harvard Graduate School of Arts & Sciences)

The power of the placebo effect (Harvard Medical School)

And two on wines:

This is why more expensive wines taste better (Market Watch)

Do More Expensive Wines Taste Better? (Journal of Wine Economics) This is documents the large study be Robin Goldstein, whom I mentioned in the podcast.


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One job of a leader is to analyze risk appropriately, then make a decision on how to move forward. However, our perception of risk is not always rational. Your ability to discern the difference between perceived risk and real risk will make a difference. This episode deconstructs perceived risk to help you know the difference.

Show Notes:

Here's an article from The Decision Lab on Salience Bias.

Here is everything you need to know about Slug Lines.

This is Seth Godin's blog post, Feel Risky.

This is Peter Sims' book, Little Bets: How Breakthrough Ideas Emerge from Small Discoveries.


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People don't negotitate their closely held values. Identity, belief systems and the misattribution of arousal all play a role. Here's why it matters as a leader.

Show notes:

Why We Hate People Who Disagree: Personal Identity and Civility, by Mark Alicke, Ph.D., from Psychology Today.

Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion, by Robert B. Cialdiani, Ph.D.

Here is a transcript of the Hidden BrainPodcast episode, Nature, Nurture and Your Politics, featuring University of Nebraska professor John Hibbing.


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Leaders who understand the effects of emotional contagion can help those they work with function at their best. This is especially true in anxiety-producing situations. Humor and playfulness affect both the leader and those around her in positive ways.

Show Notes:

This article explains how smiling can increase happiness.

This article explains emotional contagion and the research that supports the concept.

The story about the Rabbi and the 11 year-old who spelled "feces" in Hebrew phonetics is from Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue, by Edwin Friedman, pg. 209. And yes, the story does use the term "Sunday school," which you might find odd for a synagogue. Friedman's words, not mine.


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The Millennial generation is now the largest segment of the workforce. These four principles will help you communicate with any generation.

Show Notes:

This is the research from the Pew Research Center showing that Millennials are now the largest segment of the workforce.

Here is the infographic that compares differents means of communication,  and how they are viewed by the different generations.


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Concepts from Agile project management such as the "last responsible moment" and the "minimum viable product" can help congregational and nonprofit leaders develop more effective programs and services.

Show Notes:

Here is a transcript of an NPR Ted Radio interview with Adam Grant. He talks about his experience with the Warby Parker founders, as well as how to procrastinate smartly.


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Leading change requires the ability to express one's own goals and values in non-anxious ways, AND to remain emotionally connected with resistors.

Show notes:

Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue, by Edwin Friedman, provides great depth on family systems theory and leadership through self-differentiation.


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This episode shows how understanding the relationship between self-discipline, willpower and habit formation can help you to develop positive habits that will improve your spiritual, physical and emotional well-being.


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Self-Differentiation is the a key to remaining a non-anxious leader. This episode explains what it is and why it matters.


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Experience, Confidence and Vulnerability

Experience is important, but not if it keeps you stuck. Research shows that learning to be uncomfortable will increase your confidence, influence and ability to see things with a fresh perspective.


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