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“I’m interested in writing because I don’t want to sleepwalk through life. I feel like we have an appallingly brief time on earth, and we’re here to see and understand and do as much good as we can before we’re gone.” –Anthony Doerr

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Anthony talk about how the pace of travel changes the experience of travel, and what it’s like to travel as a writer (2:45); how to manage the local and the global, the specific and the universal, the concrete and the speculative, in one’s writing (12:30); how the idea of “home” influences one’s craft as a writer who travels (23:00); common mistakes writers make when writing about places and cultures they don’t know well, and humiliating travel (and book-tour) experiences (31:00).

Anthony Doerr is a novelist and essayist, and short story writer. His 2014 novel All the Light We Cannot See won the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction, and was made into a Netflix miniseries in 2023.

Books and authors mentioned:

• Four Seasons in Rome, by Anthony Doerr (book)
• The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book)
• Daniel Woodrell (novelist)
• Aimee Nezhukumatathil (poet and essayist)
• Benjamin Percy (author, essayist and comic book writer)
• Paul Theroux (travel writer and novelist)
• Bob Shacochis (novelist and literary journalist)
• Peter Hessler (travel writer and journalist)
• Tony D’Souza (novelist)
• Marco Polo Didn’t Go There, by Rolf Potts (book)
• Travels in Alaska, by John Muir (book)
• Lolita, by Vladimir Nabokov (book)
• Joseph Conrad (Polish-British novelist)
• Wade Davis (Canadian author and anthropologist)
• Jared Diamond (author and historian)
• Gina Ochsner (novelist and short story writer)

Other links:

• Downton Abbey (British historical drama TV series)
• “My Beirut Hostage Crisis,” by Rolf Potts (travel essay)
• “The Hunter’s Wife,” by Anthony Doerr (short story)
• “Querencia,” by Suzannah Lessard (New Yorker article)
• Querencia (Spanish mystical concept)
• Jardin des Plantes (botanical garden in Paris)
• Corsac fox (steppe fox found in Mongolia)
• Pantheon (ancient Roman temple)
• “On Native Ground,” by Wade Davis (essay)
• “The Deep,” by Anthony Doerr (short story)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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Note: This encore episode is dedicated to the memory of Alice Potts, who died on August 20, 2025, aged 81.

“In America aging is often seen as an insult rather than an inevitable human process. We don’t celebrate getting older; we ‘fight’ age by pretending to be young.” –Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate Rolf and his parents, Alice and George Potts, talk about how surviving the COVID-19 pandemic has changed their relationship, and how it gave them a pretext to go through a “death checklist” together (3:00); how one’s grandparents and parents live on in one’s memories and one’s conversations, the life-values they passed on, and what it felt like when those loved ones declined and died (14:00); how, over the years, elderly people and philosophers have come to terms with notions of decline and death (31:00); and personal insights about what it’s like to have grown older after having lived a long life (44:00).

George and Alice Potts are retired schoolteachers based in Kansas. George taught science at various Wichita high schools, as well as at Friends University, where he pioneered graduate-level programs in Zoo Science and Environmental Studies. He also helped facilitate the Outdoor Wildlife Learning Sites (OWLS) program for the Kansas Department of Wildlife and Parks. Alice taught second graders in the Wichita public schools for more than 30 years. In 1994 her classes succeed in promoting legislation to declare the barred tiger salamander the Kansas State Amphibian.

Notable Links:

• What to Do When a Loved One Dies (AARP death checklist)
• How we die in America (Deviate episode)
• The therapeutic uses of reading scripture (Deviate episode)
• On losing one’s parents to COVID-19 (Deviate episode)
• 1985 World Series (baseball championship)
• Joe Louis (20th century boxing champion)
• John Prine (singer-songwriter)
• Alzheimer’s disease (chronic neurodegenerative disease)
• You Are My Sunshine (folk song)
• Will You Miss Me When I’m Gone (folk song)
• Ecclesiastes (book in the Old Testament of the Bible)
• Epistle of James (book in the New Testament of the Bible)
• Crowfoot (19th century Siksika First Nation chief)
• Ted Kaczynski (the Unabomber)
• Epicurus (ancient Greek philosopher)
• Varanasi (Hindu holy city in India)
• Lamentations 3:22-23 (Old Testament Bible verse)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“No endeavor to write a travel book is ever lost, since it gives you a useful perspective on (and intensified attention to) the reality of the travel experience itself. When embraced mindfully, the real-time experience of a journey is invariably its truest reward.” –Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf touches on nine lessons from attempting to write a (never finished) van-life vagabonding memoir at age 23, including:

OnPilgrims in a Sliding World (1:00)

Lesson #1: No work is lost (and “failure” has lessons to teach)

On the author as a character (6:30)

Lesson #2: “Show, don’t tell” is still good narrative advice

On depicting other people (14:30)

Lesson #3: Travel books require reporting (not just recollecting)

On recounting dialogues (22:30)

Lesson #4: Be true to what was said (but make sure it serves a broader purpose)

On veering from the truth (32:30)

Lesson #5: The truth tends to work better than whatever you might make up

On depicting places (39:30)

Lesson #6: “Telling details” are better than broad generalizations about a place

On neurotic young-manhood (48:30)

Lesson #7: Balance narrative analysis with narrative vulnerability

The seeds of Vagabonding (1:01:30)

Lesson #8: Over time, we write our way into what we have to say

The journey was the point (1:06:30)

Lesson #9: In the end, taking the journey counts for more than writing it

Books mentioned:

• The Geto Boys, by Rolf Potts (2016 book)
• Vagabonding, by Rolf Potts (2003 book)
• The Anxiety of Influence, by Harold Bloom (1973 book)
• On the Road, by Jack Kerouac (1957 book)
• The Catcher in the Rye, by J.D. Salinger (1951 book)
• Epic of Gilgamesh (12th century BCE Mesopotamian epic)
• Don Quixote, by Miguel de Cervantes (17th century novel)
• The Travels of Sir John Mandeville (14th century travelogue)
• True History, by Lucian of Samosata (2nd century novella)
• Three Cups of Tea, by Greg Mortenson (21st century memoir)
• Marco Polo Didn't Go There, by Rolf Potts (2008 book)
• Labels: A Mediterranean Journal, by Evelyn Waugh (1930 book)

Essays, poems, and short stories mentioned

• "The Mystical High Church of Luck," by Rolf Potts (1998 essay)
• "Greenland is Not Bigger Than South America", by Rolf Potts (1998 essay)
• “The Faces,” by Robert Creeley (1983 poem)
• "Reflection and Retrospection," by Phillip Lopate (2005 essay)
• "Why so much travel writing is so boring," by Thomas Swick (2001 essay)
• "10 Rules of Writing," by Elmore Leonard (2001 essay)
• "In the Penal Colony," by Franz Kafka (1919 short story)

Places and events mentioned

• People's Park (activist park in Berkeley)
• 924 Gilman Street (punk-rock club in Berkeley)
• Alphabet City (neighborhood New York City's East Village)
• Brentwood (Los Angeles neighborhood)
• 1994 Northridge earthquake
• Panama City Beach (Florida spring-break city)
• Gainesville (Florida college town)
• Athens (Georgia college town)
• Big Sur (coastal region of California)
• Humboldt Redwoods State Park (park in California)

Other links:

• "Van Life before #VanLife" (Deviate episode)
• Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf's annual creative writing classes)
• Picaresque (prose genre)
• Roman à clef (fictionalized novel about real-life events)
• "Jumping freight trains in the Pacific NW" (Deviate episode)
• "Telling travel stories, with Andrew McCarthy" (Deviate episode)
• "Rolf Potts: The Vagabond's Way" (Ari Shaffir's Skeptic Tank podcast)
• "A personal history of my grunge-bandwagon band" (Deviate episode)
• Gettysburg Address (Abraham Lincoln speech)
• José Ortega y Gasset (Spanish philosopher)
• Jack Handey (American humorist known for "Deep Thoughts" jokes)
• Laurel Lee (American memoirist)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Realizing that you will die greatly clarifies your vision of life, and stimulates opportunities for making the vision real.” –Ed Buryn

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ed discuss the impetus behind Ed’s first travels to Europe by van in the 1960s, and his early forays into self-printed and self-promoted books about the experience (3:00); how travel to Europe was different 50 years ago, and the joy and freedom that comes with not knowing what happens next (14:30); Ed’s philosophies and influences, including living in “the now” (21:00); how travel allows you to reinvent yourself, and how meeting people is the best gift of travel (36:00); and Ed’s ambitions for poetry and travel, and his advice to travelers in today’s world (44:30).

Ed Buryn is an author and photographer who was one of the first to popularize the term “vagabonding” through the publication of his books Vagabonding In Europe and North America and Vagabonding in America. For more about Ed, check out https://edburyn.com.

Notable Links:

• Kevin Kelly (writer, editor, and publisher)
• Tony Wheeler (founder of Lonely Planet travel guides)
• Bill Dalton (founder of Moon travel guides)
• Charles Plymell on the Beat Generation (Deviate episode)
• The Drifters, by James Michener (book)
• Zorba the Greek, by Nikos Kazantzakis (book)
• Henry Miller (author)
• CouchSurfing ((homestay and social networking service)
• Richard Halliburton (traveler and author)
• Tarot (playing cards used for divination)
• Nevada City (community in northern California)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"No one motivation is ‘better’ than any other. We travel with different motivations at different times, and they sometimes overlap." –Ash Bhardwaj

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ash talk about curiosity as a motivation for travel (1:30); the ancient Greek concepts of happiness that underpin human motivations like travel, and how mentors influence travel (14:00); serendipity as a motivation for travel, Type One versus Type Two fun, and the dangers of "voluntourism" (21:00); how "awe" differs from "wonder," how to bring these perspectives home, and how "eroticism" can be a part of travel (36:30); "grief travel," and how one's sense for travel can become intertwined with a sense of hope (48:30).

Ash Bhardwaj is an award-winning journalist and broadcaster, and the author of Why We Travel.

Notable Links:

• Paris travel memoir workshop, with Rolf Potts (creative writing class)
• Banana Pancake Trail (backpacker route in Southeast Asia)
• Hedonism (philosophical concept involving pleasure)
• Eudaimonia (philosophical concept involving happiness)
• A Moveable Feast (posthumous memoir by Ernest Hemingway)
• Georges Perec (French novelist)
• Beginner's Mind (Zen Buddhist concept)
• Levison Wood (British explorer)
• Arsenal F.C. (English soccer team)
• Joseph Kony (Ugandan warlord)
• Flow (focused mental state)
• Mihály Csíkszentmihályi (Hungarian-American psychologist)
• NGO (non-governmental aid organizations)
• Air Vanuatu (national airline in the South Pacific)
• Hokitika (town in New Zealand)
• Pounamu (stone valued by the Māori)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"Time spent traveling on trains, just staring out the window: I don't think that's lost time. That's when we have our best ideas." –Kim Krizan

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kiki introduce their interview with Kim Krizan by talking about their own personal love of the movie Before Sunrise, and how they first experienced it (0:30); Kim talks about her early travel experiences in Czechoslovakia as a teenager, and in England in her twenties (14:30); how the low-information technological moment of travel in the 1990s doesn't exist anymore in the 2020s (23:30); how Kim became involved with helping Richard Linklater write Before Sunrise, and their creative process in working together (34:00); Kim's ongoing relationship to the movie, 30 years after it came out (44:00); and an "Easter egg" segment featuring Kiki reading Melissa Fite Johnson's poem "Before Sunrise on the VCR" (55:30).

Kim Krizan (@kimkrizan) is the Oscar-nominated cowriter of the Before Sunrise movies, and the author of Spy in the House of Anaïs Nin.

Kristen “Kiki” Bush is an actress, known for Paterno, Liberal Arts, Suits, Law & Order: SVU, and onstage performances at Manhattan Theatre Club, The Public, and Lincoln Center.

Notable Links:

• 2025 Screenwriting in Paris class, with Kim Krizan (creative writing class)
• Paris Writing Workshops (summer learning-vacation classes)
• Before Sunrise (1995 movie)
• Before Sunset (2004 movie)
• Ethan Hawke (American actor and director)
• Julie Delpy (French actress and director)
• Richard Linklater (American filmmaker)
• Kristen "Kiki" Bush in People, Places & Things (2022 play at the Studio Theatre)
• Thoughts on watching the Before trilogy, 25 years on, by Rolf Potts (essay)
• BritRail (train pass in the UK)
• London A-Z (street atlas)
• Siouxsie and the Banshees (British rock band)
• Wembley Stadium (London venue)
• Continuous partial attention (behavior)
• Slacker (1990 film)
• Dazed and Confused (1993 film)
• Anaïs Nin (French-American diarist and novelist)
• Eurail Pass (train pass to 33 European countries)
• The Game Camera (trailer for 2025 short film made by Kiki and Rolf)
• Uncle Vanya (play by Anton Chekhov)
• Robert Falls (former artistic director of Chicago's Goodman Theater)
• Melissa Fite Johnson (poet)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"Time spent traveling on trains, just staring out the window: I don't think that's lost time. That's when we have our best ideas." –Kim Krizan

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kiki introduce their interview with Kim Krizan by talking about their own personal love of the movie Before Sunrise, and how they first experienced it (0:30); Kim talks about her early travel experiences in Czechoslovakia as a teenager, and in England in her twenties (14:30); how the low-information technological moment of travel in the 1990s doesn't exist anymore in the 2020s (23:30); how Kim became involved with helping Richard Linklater write Before Sunrise, and their creative process in working together (34:00); Kim's ongoing relationship to the movie, 30 years after it came out (44:00); and an "Easter egg" segment featuring Kiki reading Melissa Fite Johnson's poem "Before Sunrise on the VCR" (55:30).

Kim Krizan (@kimkrizan) is the Oscar-nominated cowriter of the Before Sunrise movies, and the author of Spy in the House of Anaïs Nin.

Kristen “Kiki” Bush is an actress, known for Paterno, Liberal Arts, Suits, Law & Order: SVU, and onstage performances at Manhattan Theatre Club, The Public, and Lincoln Center.

Notable Links:

• 2025 Screenwriting in Paris class, with Kim Krizan (creative writing class)
• Paris Writing Workshops (summer learning-vacation classes)
• Before Sunrise (1995 movie)
• Before Sunset (2004 movie)
• Ethan Hawke (American actor and director)
• Julie Delpy (French actress and director)
• Richard Linklater (American filmmaker)
• Kristen "Kiki" Bush in People, Places & Things (2022 play at the Studio Theatre)
• Thoughts on watching the Before trilogy, 25 years on, by Rolf Potts (essay)
• BritRail (train pass in the UK)
• London A-Z (street atlas)
• Siouxsie and the Banshees (British rock band)
• Wembley Stadium (London venue)
• Continuous partial attention (behavior)
• Slacker (1990 film)
• Dazed and Confused (1993 film)
• Anaïs Nin (French-American diarist and novelist)
• Eurail Pass (train pass to 33 European countries)
• The Game Camera (trailer for 2025 short film made by Kiki and Rolf)
• Uncle Vanya (play by Anton Chekhov)
• Robert Falls (former artistic director of Chicago's Goodman Theater)
• Melissa Fite Johnson (poet)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“If you're someone who's always dreamed of going to Mars but you don't have the time to become an astronaut, you can just visit the Atacama Desert.” –Mark Johanson

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Mark talk about how Mark became interested in the Atacama Desert, and his experience in other world deserts (1:45); what Mark sought when he traveled through the region (16:00); what it's like to experience the area, and why it's known as "Mars on Earth" (26:00); what travelers can do there, and what it's like for Mark to live in Chile (36:30).

Mark Johanson (@markonthemap) is an American journalist and travel writer based in Santiago, Chile. His first book is Mars on Earth: Wanderings in the World’s Driest Desert.

Notable Links:

• Atacama Desert (desert plateau located in Chile)
• Coober Pedy (town in the Australian Outback)
• Desert Solitaire, by Edward Abbey (book)
• The English Patient, by Michael Ondaatje (book)
• The Songlines, by Bruce Chatwin (book)
• Man in the Landscape, by Paul Shepard (book)
• Chinchorro mummies (ancient remains in the Atacama Desert)
• Qhapaq Ñan (Inca road system)
• Arica (province in Chile)
• Altiplano (Andean Plateau)
• Lands of Lost Borders, by Kate Harris (book)
• Pan-American Highway (road network)
• Cusco (city in Peru)
• San Pedro de Atacama (town in Chile)
• Elqui Valley (wine and astronomy region in Chile)
• Gabriela Mistral (Nobel Prize-winning poet)
• Pisco (fermented spirit made from grapes)
• Pisco sour (cocktail)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Travel does not require leaving your city or state or country, but it does require leaving your comfort zone. And that can happen a block or two away from where you live.”–Chloe Cooper Jones

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Chloe talk about why a section about “slum tourism” was cut out of Rolf’s newest book The Vagabond’s Way (2:30); how so much of what we talk about when we talk about travel has industrialized middle-class presumptions (7:30); the motivations and ethical considerations that underpin seeking out disadvantaged neighborhoods as a traveler (15:00); how preconceived narratives and “cultural extraction” often motivates people’s experience in a city, in ways that do not always benefit the city (25:00); what “dark tourism” and “voluntourism” are, and what the ethical ramifications are for travelers (32:00); and the difference between articulating ideals, and the work of acting on those ideals (45:00).

Chloe Cooper Jones (@CCooperJones) is the author of Easy Beauty: A Memoir. She has been a Pulitzer Prize finalist in Feature Writing, and was the recipient of a Whiting Creative Nonfiction Grant, as well as a Howard Foundation Grant from Brown University.

Notable Links:

• Integrating love of travel & love of home (Deviate episode 210)
• The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book)
• The Most Beautiful Walk in the World, by John Baxter (book)
• Slum tourism (tours to poor areas of a city)
• Poetics, by Aristotle (dramatic theory)
• Republic, by Plato (Socratic dialogue)
• Immanuel Kant (philosopher)
• Slumdog Millionaire (2008 movie)
• Apartheid (system of institutionalized racial segregation)
• Favela (slum in Brazil)
• Yelp (crowd-sourced business review app)
• Dark tourism (tourism to places associated with tragedy)
• 1990 Hesston tornado outbreak (Kansas weather event)
• Tuol Sleng Genocide Museum (tourism attraction in Cambodia)
• Saw (movie franchise)
• Voluntourism (volunteering-themed travel)
• Hurricane Katrina (2005 Gulf Coast weather event)
• Lower Ninth Ward (New Orleans neighborhood)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“The most difficult part about traveling the world isn’t actually the logistics of a trip—it’s finding the courage to go in the first place.” —Matt Kepnes

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Matt talk about how his travel style has changed over the years, and how fears affect people’s travels (1:00); strategies for saving money on the road (10:30); and strategies for finding activities on the road, and where to start a long-term journey (19:30).

Matt Kepnes (@nomadicmatt), commonly known as “Nomadic Matt,” is a travel blogger and the New York Times bestselling author of Travel the World on $75 a Day and Ten Years a Nomad.

Notable Links:

• The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book)
• Levison Wood (explorer)
• Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode)
• Home exchange (lodging service)
• Trusted Housesitters (lodging service)
• Travel Ladies (lodging app)
• EatWith,com (hospitality service)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“We do a lot of writing alone, in our own space. But writing is not a solitary practice. The business of writing requires a community.” –Angelique Stevens

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Angelique talk about what her writing life is like in the decade since she first took Rolf’s Paris class, with the ambition of becoming a travel writer, and how her travel book transformed into something different (2:00); how Angelique gave herself permission to write about herself in an honest way, and what craft lessons have helped her writing (8:00); and Angelique’s reading habits as a writer, her writing process, and how she came to think of herself as a writer (23:00).

Angelique Stevens‘ is creative writing professor whose nonfiction has been published in Best American Essays two years in a row (2022, edited by Alexander Chee and 2023 edited by Vivian Gornick), Granta, LitHub, The New England Review, and a number of anthologies.

Notable Links:

• Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf’s annual writing classes)
• Zapatistas (political group in in Chiapas, Mexico)
• Bootstrapping myth (narrative about self-starting process)
• Haudenosaunee (Iroquois indigenous people from the Northeast U.S)
• Zora Neale Hurston (American writer)
• Toni Morrison (American novelist)
• Melissa Febos (American writer)
• Honor, by Thrity Umrigar (book)
• The Situation and the Story, by Vivian Gornick (book)
• A Little Devil in America, by Hanif Abdurraqib (book)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Anybody with curiosity and wanderlust can have their own Hippie Trail. They just need to get away from home, embrace the world, and have an adventure.” –Rick Steves

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Rick talk about Rick’s 1990s book Asia Through the Back Door, and how Rick recently rediscovered the old Asia travel journals he kept as a young man (2:30); how Rick prepared for the journey in the era before there were many guidebooks to the regions he was headed (9:30); what the experience of travel was like for Rick and his friend Gene on the Hippie Trail, including spiritual experiences (18:00); how travel can expand your sense of community, and diversify your sense for what wealth and poverty is (28:00); Rick’s first experience of smoking hash on the Hippie Trail, and how it gave him an appreciation for the joy of travel (34:00); and what lessons Rick brought home from the experience (39:00).

Rick Steves (@ricksteveseurope) is a travel expert, author, and TV host who specializes in Europe. His newest book is On the Hippie Trail: Istanbul to Kathmandu and the Making of a Travel Writer.

Notable Links:

• Kevin Kelly on the lost world of 1970s Asia (Deviate episode)
• Travel can be a way to see the future, with Kevin Kelly (Deviate episode)
• Vagabonding pioneer Ed Buryn (Deviate episode)
• Hippie trail (Asia travel route in the 1960s and 1970s)
• Asia Through the Back Door, by Rick Steves (book)
• Iranian revolution (1979 overthrow of U.S. backed government)
• Soviet invasion of Afghanistan (conflict that started in 1979)
• Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode)
• Lonely Planet (guidebook publisher)
• Rick Steves’ Europe (TV show)
• Bucket shop (wholesale of air tickets)
• The Man Who Would be King (1975 film)
• ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America)
• LCMS (Lutheran Church – Missouri Synod)
• Bread for the World (Christian advocacy organization)
• Herat (city in Afghanistan)
• Freak Street (neighborhood near Durbar Square in Kathmandu)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“My life has often forced me to follow the Super Bowl in unusual circumstances. The first Super Bowl found me in boarding school in England, huddled under my bedclothes with an illegal transistor radio.” –Pico Iyer

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Pico talk about the novelty of two travel writers talking about the Super Bowl, and Pico’s NFL fandom (4:00); how sports can be a therapeutic diversion from the more serious aspects of life, and which players are Rolf and Pico’s all-time favorites (13:00); Pico and Rolf’s old articles for Sports Illustrated, and how narratives attach themselves to sporting contests (21:00); and what Pico’s plan and predication is for the 2025 Super Bowl (32:30).

Pico Iyer (@PicoIyer) is a novelist, essayist, and author. His newest book is Aflame: Learning from Silence.

Notable Links:

• A personal history of being a lifelong pro-sports fan (Deviate Super Bowl special 2020)
• The Native Americans that beat the NFL Giants (Deviate Super Bowl special 2023)
• Sports, superstitions, and sacraments (Deviate Super Bowl special 2024)
• Pico Iyer on solitude, stillness, and silence (Deviate episode)
• Pascal’s wager (philosophical argument)
• Edgar Allan Poe (American poet)
• Wichita North (high school in Kansas)
• Sports Illustrated (magazine)
• Eton’s Brutal, Incomprehensible Wall Game, by Pico Iyer (1995 article)
• Murder of football player in Kansas shakes town, by Rolf Potts (2012 article)
• Ralph Henry Barbour (early 20th century sports fiction writer)
• Notes On the Narrative Conundrum of Baseball Fandom, by Rolf Potts (article)
• Vin Scully (sportscaster for the LA Dodgers)
• Chick Hearn (sportscaster for the LA Lakers)
• Bill Simmons (podcaster)
• Nick Wright (sportscaster)
• 2014 American League Wild Card Game (Royals-A’s baseball playoff game)
• Wesley Morris (media critic)

NFL football links:

• Baltimore Ravens (NFL football team with literary mascot)
• Derrick Henry (NFL running back)
• Tony Romo (retired NFL quarterback and commentator)
• Chris Collinsworth (retired NFL wide receiver and commentator)
• Jared Goff (NFL quarterback for the Detroit Lions)
• Josh Allen (NFL quarterback for the Buffalo Bills)
• Super Bowl I (first AFL–NFL World Championship Game)
• Max McGee (former NFL end for the Green Bay Packers)
• Super Bowl LI (2017 Falcons-Patriots Super Bowl)
• Super Bowl LV (2021 Chiefs-Buccaneers Super Bowl)
• John Brodie (former NFL quarterback for the San Francisco 49ers)
• Brock Purdy (NFL quarterback for the San Francisco 49ers)
• Barry Sanders (retired NFL running back for the Detroit Lions)
• Joe Montana (former NFL quarterback for the San Francisco 49ers)
• Saquon Barkley (NFL running back for the Philadelphia Eagles)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“In solitude, I often feel closer to the people I care for than when they’re in the same room.” –Pico Iyer

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Pico talk about how the best travels are often counterbalanced with a kind of stillness, in which one can find one’s “best self” (3:00); Pico’s decades-long experiences with monks in a California monastery, the benefits of a “childlike attitude” toward life, and how “fire” can be a metaphor for spiritual life (12:00); how Pico’s solitude is informed by, and in conversation with, nature (22:00); Pico’s engaged relationship with spiritual communities, even though he is not religious (30:00); the “counterculture” spiritual tradition that grew up around Big Sur, California, and the power of longing (39:00); and how solitude can be a gateway to other people (47:00).

Pico Iyer (@PicoIyer) is a novelist, essayist, and author. His newest book is Aflame: Learning from Silence.

Notable Links:

• Pico Iyer on what Japan can teach us about life (Deviate episode 73)
• The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book)
• Henri Nouwen (writer and theologian)
• New Seeds of Contemplation, by Thomas Merton (book)
• The 14th Dalai Lama (spiritual leader)
• The Snow Leopard, by Peter Matthiessen (book)
• Richard Powers (novelist)
• Desert Fathers (early Christian hermits and ascetics)
• Sign of Jonas, by Thomas Merton (book)
• Days of Heaven (1978 film)
• 4′33″ by John Cage (musical composition)
• New Camaldoli Hermitage (hermitage in Big Sur, California)
• Rigveda (ancient Indian collection of hymns)
• The Woman Lit by Fireflies, by Jim Harrison (book)
• Sarmoung Brotherhood (esoteric Sufi brotherhood)
• Henry Miller (novelist)
• Esalen Institute (retreat center in Big Sur)
• Bittersweet, by Susan Cain (book)
• Leonard Cohen (songwriter)
• Ludwig Wittgenstein (philosopher)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Syria is a mix of everything. There are multiple Christian cultures, multiple Muslim cultures, and multiple languages. It’s the crossroads of the world. It made for some of my best travel memories from that time of my life.” —Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate (which was remixed from an episode of Ari Shaffir’s You Be Trippin’ podcast), Rolf and Ari talk about when and why Rolf traveled to Syria back in the day, and what it was like when he got there (3:30); his experience in staying in a Christian monastery in the mountains outside of Damascus (18:30); Rolf’s journey to the Tigris River, his experience with the Kurds he met in a Syria-Turkey border town, and the types of food on offer in Syria (28:30); Rolf’s enjoyable experience of watching the movie Con Air on a long-distance bus in Syria, and his experience of going to a Sudanese refugee church in Damascus (37:00); Rolf’s experience of accepting hospitality from Syrian Kurds, the experience of eavesdropping on American music at an Aleppo hotel, and what it’s like to watch American movies in other countries (47:00); old travel clothing and gear that Rolf still uses 25 years on, and Rolf’s travel tips and next destinations (1:07:00).

Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comedian, writer, podcaster, and actor. He is the host of theYou Be Trippin’ podcast,. His latest comedy special, JEW, is available on YouTube.

Notable Links:

• Ari Shaffir on Deviate (archive of podcast episodes)
• Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf’s travel memoir classes)
• 2011 Syrian revolution (protests and uprisings in Syria)
• Five Pillars of Islam (fundamental religious practices)
• Alawites (Arab ethnoreligious group)
• Ba’athism (Arab nationalist ideology)
• Qamishli (city on the Syria-Turkey border)
• Greater Kurdistan (geo-cultural region)
• Deir Mar Musa (Syriac Catholic monastery)
• Traveler ideals and hospitality in Syria (Deviate episode)
• Suicide door (style of automobile door)
• KDP (Kurdistan Democratic Party)
• No-fly zone (area protected from specific aircraft)
• Fuul (Egyptian stew of cooked fava beans)
• Con Air (1997 movie)
• Hannibal Lecter (fictional character)
• Second Sudanese Civil War (1983-2005 conflict)
• Marco Polo Didn’t Go There, by Rolf Potts (book)
• Ibn Battuta (14th century Arab traveler)
• Benjamin of Tudela (12th century Jewish traveler)
• Anthem Soul (Rolf’s 2001 radio essay about Syria)
• James Brown (American singer)
• Djellaba (unisex robe worn in North Africa)
• Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book)
• Tortuga (travel backpack brand)
• Vanuatu (South Pacific island nation)
• Animism (belief system)
• Cargo Cult (Melanesian spiritual movement)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“In El Salvador, I dropped $5 out of my pocket at the border, and some guy came running up to me. At the beginning of the trip I would have been surprised by that. But by that point I would have been surprised if it didn’t happen.” —Matt Savino

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Matt talk about how the first version of his travel book was way too long, and what he ended up editing out (6:00); the origins of Matt’s Central America road trip, why he ended up turning it into a book, and how he ended up taking Rolf’s Paris class (12:00); how Matt’s “Spreadsheet of Pain” helped him edit his book down to manageable size, and how historical research helped his narrative (17:00); how he wrote about a road trip that didn’t actually reach its objective, and how he tried to model his narrative on Bill Bryson’s writing (26:00); how Matt used a hybrid publisher to get his travel book into the world in two years (31:00); the challenges, idiosyncrasies, and creative joys that come with creating a hybrid published book (39:00); how AI bots determined that Matt had “plagiarized” what turned out to be his own book (54:00); and Matt’s advice for people interested in hybrid publishing (60:30).

Matt Savino (@ushuaia_or_bust) is the author of Land Without a Continent: A Road Trip through Mexico and Central America. He can be contacted via his website.

Notable Links:

• Paris travel memoir writing workshop (Rolf’s writing classes)
• Matt’s Spreadsheet of Pain (note explainer tab at the bottom)
• No Baggage Challenge (Rolf’s 2010 blog and video series)
• Justin’s elephant-poop cold remedy (2010 video)
• Walking every single street in NYC (Deviate episode)
• The Sweet Superstition of Rooting for the Royals, by Rolf Potts (essay)
• Van Life Before #VanLife (Deviate episode)
• Developmental editing (pre-publication writing support)
• Hybrid publishing (assisted self-publishing)
• Jew (comedy special by Ari Shaffir)
• Perhapsing (nonfiction narrative strategy)
• Illumify Media (hybrid publisher)
• Cliff Clavin (fictional character on Cheers)
• IngramSpark (self-publishing book company)
• Kindle Direct Publishing (e-book publishing platform)

Authors, books, and agents mentioned:

• Bill Bryson (author)
• Julie Pesano (travel writer and teacher)
• Cole Kazdin (writer and writing coach)
• Who Killed the Bishop? by Francisco Goldman (book)
• Blood of Brothers, by Stephen Kinzer (book)
• Turning the Tide, by Noam Chomsky (book)
• A Walk in the Woods, by Bill Bryson (book)
• Chloe Cooper Jones (author)
• Eddy L. Harris (travel author)
• James Faccinto (book publicist and former Paris student)
• April Eberhardt (literary agent and publishing consultant)
• AWOL on the Appalachian Trail, by David Miller (book)
• Pati Jinich (chef, author, and TV host)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“When we got into this, we didn’t know how to make videos. That’s a skill we’ve had to learn, because the industry has changed so much, from photos to videos. We are still learning all the time.” —Anne Howard

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf, Mike, Anne and Kiki talk about they got started traveling as a couple, how they made it affordable, and how they made the transition into the world of content creation (2:15); how to navigate recording and sharing travel experiences that go wrong, including relationship dynamics (9:30); how to make travel “sustainable” in the personal and creative sense of the word (17:00); the advantages of having a “niche” as an influencer, and how sponsored travel works (24:30); and what makes travel influencers stand out from others, and the importance of learning new skills (34:00).

Mike & Anne Howard are on The World’s Longest Honeymoon, traveling for the last 13 years through 80 countries across all 7 continents. They have written and photographed a National Geographic book on couples adventure travel, Ultimate Journeys for Two, as well as the glamping guidebook, Comfortably Wild.

Notable Links:

• The 10-Year Honeymoon (video)
• Glamping (upscale camping style)
• DMO (destination marketing organization)
• Brunei (country in SE Asia)
• Timor-Leste (country in SE Asia)
• How to Get Started Housesitting (article)
• Co-living (residential community living model)
• Michelin star (restaurant rating system)
• Favelas (impoverished neighborhoods in Brazil)
• World’s Most Romantic & Sustainable Destinations (article)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Influencers are forever reinforcing the same images. They’re spending no time in the actual place, other than the requisite time to take the photo. From the local community’s point of view, these kinds of tourists bring very little value.” –Stuart McDonald

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Stuart talk about why Stuart chose to make his office in West Bali, and why South Bali has developed something of a bad reputation in terms of over-tourism (2:30); the mythos of Bali, how it became a “dreamscape” in the Western consciousness, and how it has changed in recent years (6:30); why certain areas in Bali become over-touristed, and how it has recently been affected by “influencers” (18:00); how black magic and ghosts are part of the belief systems of Balinese, yet few travelers ascertain this (24:00); and how much social-media travel content leaves out essential cultural context (31:00).

Stuart McDonald (@travelfishery) is the co-founder of Travelfish.org, a travel planning website covering Southeast Asia, which he launched in 2014. He has been traveling in that part of the world since 1993, and living there since 1997.

Notable Links:

• The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book)
• Bali Hai Immigrant Song (YouTube mashup)
• Dutch presence in Bali (colonialist history)
• Eat, Pray, Love, by Elizabeth Gilbert (book)
• Canggu (coastal village in Bali)
• Fly-in fly-out [FIFO] (term for temporary laborers)
• Digital nomads (remote workers who travel)
• Lonely Planet (travel guidebook publisher)
• Infinity pool (type of swimming pool)
• National Geographic (magazine)
• GetYourGuide (tour company)
• Gates of Heaven (photogenic temple in Bali)
• Balinese sacred textiles
• Kastom (Melanesian traditional culture)
• Kava (sedative drink in Melanesia)
• Listicle (article structured as a list)
• Filterworld: How Algorithms Flattened Culture, by Kyle Chayka (book)
• Externality (indirect economic cost)

This episode of Deviate is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“We’re having less enjoyable travel experiences, even as our photos show us having this amazing time, because we’re performing a version of travel for people who aren’t even there.”

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and David talk about the time-honored practice of Americans pretending to be Canadian on the road, and why Americans at times have had a bad reputation abroad (2:30); strategies for avoiding becoming an “Ugly American” on the road (11:00); how a fixation with comfort can get in the way of life-enriching experiences on the road (18:30); how rituals like tipping, interacting with children, or choosing what to wear in public from culture to culture (22:00); how “voluntourism” and charity on the part of travelers is often not as selfless or effective as it pretends to be (30:00); how social media has a way of turning us into superficial, image-obsessed travelers (34:00); and how technology has transformed (and constrained) the way we all travel (39:00).

David Martinez is an Associate Professor of Spanish and the director of the Center for Study Abroad at George Fox University in Newberg, Oregon.

Notable Links:

• How to study abroad, even if you aren’t a student (Deviate episode 221)
• The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book)
• Flag-jacking (the practice of travelers to be from someplace they’re not)
• Paris Writing Workshop (Rolf’s travel-memoir writing classes)
• The Comfort Crisis, by Michael Easter (book)
• Misogi (Japanese Shinto ritual)
• Voluntourism (short-term charity work for travelers)
• Picturesque (aesthetic ideal)
• The Shallows, by Nicholas G. Carr (book)
• The Scent of Time, by Byung-Chul Han (book)
• George Fox Talks (podcast)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Traveling, for me, is all about destroying stereotypes and narratives about people and places.” – Matt Green

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Matt discuss Matt’s mission to walk every street in New York City (3:00); walking across the entire United States and breaking stereotypes (12:00); bucket lists as a catalyst for action (28:00); and Matt’s experiences walking in unfamiliar places and finding comfort in being a stranger (50:00).

Matt Green is the wanderer who was profiled within the documentary The World Before your Feet, directed by filmmaker Jeremy Workman and produced by Jesse Eisenberg. Matt has walked across the entire United States and is currently in the process of walking every street in New York City. For more about Matt and his current project, check out https://imjustwalkin.com/.

Notable Links:

• East of Eden, by John Steinbeck (book)
• East of Eden excerpt
• The Journey Home, by Edward Abbey (book)
• Cannery Row, by John Steinbeck (book)
• Cannery Row excerpt
• Gary House (traveler)
• The World Before Your Feet at Kanopy

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“We need positive visions of how all this technology gets deployed, because what we visualize is what we build.”–Jane Metcalfe

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jane talk about the pioneering work she did with Wired during the dawn of the “digital revolution” (3:00); how and why Jane’s professional focus shifted away from digital issues and into food and health issues in the ’00s (15:00); how science is trying to bring in diverse new data points and communication models to improve holistic health worldwide (28:30); how the health of the world’s humans is not separate from the health of the world’s animals, plants, and microorganisms, and how a bio-economy seeks to harness rather than extract the resources of nature (41:00); how regional and cultural differences affect how we perceive health, nutrition, and technology, and the importance of ethics in making scientific decisions (51:00).

Jane Metcalfe (@janemetcalfe) is the co-founder of Wired Magazine, and the chair of the Human Immunome Project, a global non-profit working to decode the immune system in order to transform how we prevent, diagnose, and treat disease.

Notable Links:

• Notes from a peripatetic salon across northern Thailand (Deviate episode)
• Hotwired (first commercial online magazine)
• HotBot (early web search engine)
• Louis Rossetto (writer, editor, and entrepreneur)
• Neuromancer, by William Gibson (science fiction novel)
• Snow Crash, by Neal Stephenson (science fiction novel)
• Cyberpunk (subgenre of science fiction)
• Electric Word (technology magazine)
• Digital Revolution (shift from mechanical to electronic technologies)
• Ethernet (computer networking technology)
• proto.life (newsletter covering the neobiological revolution)
• Neo.Life: 25 Visions for the Future of Our Species, by Jane Metcalfe (book)
• The Non-GMO Project (non-profit organization)
• David Eagleman (neuroscientist)
• Human genome (complete set of nucleic acid sequences for humans)
• Immunome (code set for proteins that constitute the immune system)
• Single-cell sequencing (context-driven technique for studying cells)
• Microbiome (community of microorganisms in a habitat)
• One Health (interdisciplinary approach to ecological health)
• Zoonotic disease (disease than can jump from non-humans to humans)
• Bioeconomy (use of biotechnology in the production of goods)
• CRISPR gene editing (technique to modify genomes of living organisms)
• Bioengineering (application of biology to create products)
• Interbeing (philosophical concept in Zen Buddhism)
• iGEM (worldwide synthetic biology competition)
• Gene drive (technology of genetic engineering)
• CRISPRcon (gene editing technology conference)
• Kevin Kelly (author and futurist)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“My parents passed away and it created this sense of recklessness in me, but in a positive way: I wanted to create a travel experience and push myself and learn about myself. Because you never know how long you’re gonna be around for.”–Daniel Troia

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Daniel talk about why Daniel chose to bicycle across America with no money or food, the privileges that set him apart from people who have to do it out of necessity, and how this kind of journey is a time-honored undertaking for people experiencing grief (2:00); the kinds of people Daniel met on the trip, how his vulnerability put him into contact with new and unfamiliar people and communities, and how visiting places in person increases empathy with the people who live here (12:30); what Daniel discovered while “dumpster diving,” and other surprises he found on the road (24:30); what it was like to self-document the trip DIY style with camera glasses, a GoPro, and a drone, and what experiences didn’t make it into the film (30:30); the lessons that Daniel brought home from the trip, where he plans to travel next, and his advice for people who want to create their own bike journey (44:00); and an “Easter Egg” about Daniel’s experiences in Kansas (49:00).

Daniel Troia (@the_travelin_dude) is the director of We Are All in This Together, which documents his cross-country USA bicycle journey with no food and no money, in search of human connection.

Notable Links:

• The Kindness of Strangers, by Mike McIntyre (book)
• The Epic of Gilgamesh (ancient Mesopotamian epic poem)
• Wild: From Lost to Found on the Pacific Crest Trail, by Cheryl Strayed (memoir)
• The Way (2010 Martin Sheen movie)
• Dumpster diving (method of gathering discarded food)
• Dude Making a Difference, by Robin Greenfield
• Aldi (multinational discount supermarket chain)
• Tom’s Cartoons (art by unhoused person in Arcata, CA)
• Camera glasses (wearable camera)
• GoPro (action camera)
• East St. Louis (city in Illinois)
• Two Wheels To Freedom, by Daniel Troia (film)
• Paterson (city in New Jersey)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“The parent’s job as teacher on the road is to just create surface area between your kid and yourself and the world.” –Julie Frieder

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Julie talk about what a “Wonder Year” is, how she got involved with family travel, and why traveling with children is possible and enriching for everyone involved (1:30); how to get started planning a family vagabonding journey, where to go, how long to go, how to save money, and why travel is good for your mental health (14:00); how to involve your kids in planning a travel journey, why being open to serendipity can wok better than micromanaging activities, what “worldschooling” is, and how to plan education activities on the road (27:00); how parents can learn alongside their kids on the road, and how to deal with challenges like homesickness and culture shock (39:30); the task of returning home after a long journey, and how travel makes us better parents (46:00).

Julie Frieder is the coauthor (along with Angela Heisten and Annika Paradise) of Wonder Year: A Guide to Long-Term Family Travel and Worldschooling.

Notable Links:

• The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book)
• Hydrogeology (geology focusing on groundwater)
• Temple Grandin (animal behaviorist)
• “Awe Is Good for Your Brain,” by Florence Williams (Outside article)
• WWOOF (World Wide Opportunities on Organic Farms)
• Unschooling (experiential learning method)
• HSLDA (homeschooling resource website)
• Worldschoolers (Facebook group)
• Lands of Lost Borders , by Kate Harris (book)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Look at any photo from a moment of supposed zeitgeist in American history, and it will be clear that not everyone in that moment represented the cutting-edge of culture.”–Rolf Potts

In this essay episode of Deviate, Rolf talks about why he enjoys listening to Rob Harvilla’s podcast 60 Songs That Explain the ’90s at double-speed, but that he’s disappointed Rob has never alluded to Rolf’s own 1990s grunge band, Swizzlefish (1:45); Rolf describes his move from Kansas to the Pacific Northwest in the year 1990, at a very specific moment in America’s cultural zeitgeist (10:30); the origins of Swizzlefish, and how its formation with Rolf’s friends Ryan and Steve was compromised by the fact that Rolf and Steve were in no way musical virtuosos (18:30); the circumstances of the first Swizzlefish live show, and how it caused an immediate controversy on Rolf’s small Christian college campus (30:00); what Portland’s indie-rock scene was like in early 1993, and what kinds of bands Rolf and his friends saw there (35:00); how the second Swizzlefish concert resulted in the band getting banned from playing on its own college campus (42:00); Swizzlefish’s spring 1993 performance at Portland’s X-Ray Cafe, and how the middle-class normalcy of its fans evoked something true about grunge music (49:00); Rolf’s eventual move to Seattle to work as a landscaper, his experiences at a 1993 Nirvana show there, and the curiously enduring legacy of Swizzlefish more than 30 years later (57:30); and Rolf talks to music journalist Rob Harvilla about Rolf’s brief appearance in the 1992 horror movie Dr. Giggles, their respective experiences with 1990s music, and whether or not Kurt Cobain would have liked them (1:06:25).

The 1993 Swizzlefish album Big Time Loser is available for streaming on Spotify, Apple Music, and YouTube Music.

Rob Harvilla (@harvilla) is the creator of 60 Songs That Explain the ’90s, a book and a podcast that explore the pop culture of the decade through music.

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Bands, musicians, and songs mentioned:

• “Love Buzz” (Shocking Blue song covered on Nirvana’s Bleach)
• Elliott Smith (singer-songwriter from Portland, Oregon)
• Heatmiser (Portland indie rock band)
• “Smells Like Teen Spirit” (Nirvana song)
• Jane’s Addiction (alternative rock band from LA)
• Mother Love Bone (Seattle rock band)
• Kurt Cobain (lead-singer of Nirvana)
• Jackyl (American hair-metal band)
• “Princess in a Cobweb” (song by Drunk at Abi’s)
• Sprinkler (Portland indie-rock band)
• “Should I Stay or Should I Go” (song by The Clash)
• Carrie Brownstein (musician and comedian)
• Bikini Kill (pioneering “riot grrrl” punk band)
• Big Daddy Meat Straw (Portland indie-rock band)
• “Smells Like Nirvana” (parody song by Weird Al Yankovic)
• “Holiday of Sparks” (song by Dimbulb)
• “Rock Collection” (song by Pond)
• Everclear (Portland rock band)
• Mia Zapata (Seattle punk singer murdered in 1993)
• “Scentless Apprentice” (1993 Nirvana song)
• Kim Deal (Ohio-born musician for The Pixies and The Breeders)
• Dookie (1994 Green Day album)
• 924 Gilman Street (all-ages punk-rock club in Berkeley)
• Rancid (Berkeley punk band)
• Avail (melodic hardcore punk band from Virginia)

Other links:

• Malcolm McLaren (promoter and manager of the Sex Pistols)
• Hype! (1996 music documentary directed by Doug Pray)
• Twin Peaks (TV drama created by David Lynch)
• Grunge (alternative rock genre known as “Seattle sound”)
• George Fox College (pre-1996 name of George Fox University)
• Jumping freight trains in the Pacific NW (Deviate episode)
• Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode)
• Brian Epstein (manager of The Beatles from 1962-1967)
• Sub Pop (Seattle-based indie-rock record label)
• X-Ray Cafe (1990s all-ages venue in Portland)
• Rap rock (hybrid music genre)
• Hardcore (punk rock subgenre)
• Portlandia (sketch-comedy TV show from the 2010s)
• This Present Darkness (Christian novel by Frank E. Peretti)
• Satanic ritual abuse (conspiracy theory and moral panic)
• Newberg (small Oregon college town)
• 1993 TIME Magazine grunge issue (featuring Eddie Vedder)
• Dr. Giggles (1992 horror movie)
• Singles (1992 Cameron Crowe movie)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Something about the motion of walking is conducive to generating both ideas and conversation. You can empty your mind and open your mind at the same time.”—Kevin Kelly

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf reports from a “Walk and Talk” across northern Thailand. Interviewees and conversation topics are listed by time-code below. Participant write-ups about (or alluding to) the 2023 Thailand Walk and Talk include:

• The Walk and Talk: Everything We Know, by Craig Mod
• Walk and Talk: Everything We Know (PDF document), by Kevin Kelly
• Walking the Heck out of Thailand, by Craig Mod
• Walk and Talk, by Derek Sivers
• Expanding Home, by Liz Danzico
• Where Do You Call Home?, by Jason Kottke
• 2023: Walking, by Dan Wang
• Why Not Pay Teachers $100,000 a Year?, by Daniel Pink

Kevin Kelly (4:00-15:00)

Kevin Kelly (@kevin2kelly) is a photographer, writer, and futurist, with much of his work centering on Asian and digital culture. His newest book is Excellent Advice for Living: Wisdom I Wish I’d Known Earlier.

• Travel can be a way to see the future (Deviate episode)
• Kevin Kelly on the lost world of 1970s Asia (Deviate episode)
• Wired (technology magazine)
• The Cotswolds (region in central Southwest England)

Liz Danzico (15:00-27:45)

Liz Danzico is VP of Design at Microsoft, and the Founding Chair of the MFA Interaction Design Program at the School of Visual Arts.

• Long-distance hiking at home (Deviate episode)
• The Death and Life of Great American Cities, by Jane Jacobs (book)
• Lets Drift (Kenyan hiking club)
• Hoka (brand of walking shoes)

Silvia Lindtner (27:45-46:00)

Silvia Lindtner is a writer, ethnographer, and Associate Professor at the University of Michigan. Her book Prototype Nation: China and the Contested Promise of Innovation was published by Princeton University Press in 2020.

• Seeking rural places (Deviate episode)
• Jiangxi (Chinese province)
• Guangdong (Chinese province)
• Yunnan (Chinese province)
• Salzburg (city in Austria)
• The Vulnerable Observer, by Ruth Behar (book)
• Anna Greenspan (media professor)
• Communitas (unstructured community of equals)

Daniel Pink (46:00-52:00)

Daniel Pink is a best-selling author of books on work, business, and life. His “Why Not?” project in collaboration with the Washington Post to aims to jolt America’s imagination about possibilities.

• When: The Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing, by Daniel Pink (book)
• Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us, by Daniel Pink (book)
• The Power of Regret, by Daniel Pink (book)

Craig Mod (52:00-69:00)

Craig Mod is an author and photographer who has written and photographed about his walks across Japan, his love of pizza toast, and his life in Japan.

• Walk Japan (tour company)
• Rich Roll (ultra-endurance athlete)
• The Glorious Boredom of My Walk in Japan, by Craig Mod (essay)
• Kissa by Kissa, by Craig Mod (book)
• Things Become Other Things, by Craid Mod (book)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“We ‘massage’ the truth to make it fit the narrative we need it to fit in our lives.” –Andrew McCarthy

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Andrew talk about how Andrew got started in travel writing, and how writing himself on the page helped him see himself in the world (2:30); when he does and doesn’t conflate certain details in the interest of a good story, and how he balances the “micro” and the “macro” elements of a travel story (12:30); how he decides who to write about, among the many people he meets on the road, which details do and don’t drive the narrative forward, and what it’s like to meet travelers who recognize him from his acting days (23:30); how Andrew structures his travel stories, and what travel storytelling in common with his work as a TV director (31:00); how he balances his writing and non-writing work in life, and how he mixes personal details with place details in his travel writing (38:00); and how memory can be fallible, and how to best write about family members (47:00).

Andrew McCarthy (@AndrewTMcCarthy) is an actor, television director and writer of such books as The Longest Way Home and Brat. His newest book is Walking with Sam: A Father, a Son, and Five Hundred Miles Across Spain.

Notable Links:

• Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf’s travel memoir classes)
• Andrew McCarthy on travel (Deviate episode)
• Andrew McCarthy Proust questionnaire (Deviate episode)
• Paul Theroux (travel writer and novelist)
• “Chasing the Black Pearl,” by Andrew McCarthy (Tahiti article)
• Gustav Mahler (classical composer)
• Don George (travel writer and editor)
• The Snow Leopard, by Peter Matthiessen (book)
• “A Slice of Paradise,” by Andrew McCarthy (Hawaii article)
• “A Slice of Ireland,” by Andrew McCarthy (Ireland article)
• “Steeped in Darjeeling,” by Andrew McCarthy (India article)
• Osprey (species of bird)
• Finisterre (peninsula in Spain)
• Communitas (unstructured community of equals)
• A Short History of Nearly Everything, by Bill Bryson (book)
• Less than Zero (1987 film starring Andrew McCarthy)
• Nut graph (journalism term)
• Joan Didion (American writer)
• Marco Polo Didn’t Go There, by Rolf Potts (book)
• Claude Chabrol (French film director)
• Henry Miller (American novelist)
• Alison Steele (New York DJ known as “The Nightbird”)
• Vin Scelsa (broadcaster)
• Oliver Sacks (British neurologist and writer)
• Rob Lowe (American “Brat Pack” actor)
• “Courting Vienna,” by Andrew McCarthy (Austria article)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Unless we explore our neighborhood, we can’t imagine what might be right under our noses, nor be able to celebrate it, mourn its demise, or take action.” –Alastair Humphreys

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Alastair Humphreys discuss the concept of his new book Local: A Search for Nearby Nature and Wilderness (1:30); what Alastair found on his close-to-home adventures in England (7:00); the surprises he found in industrial and post-industrial environments (13:00); how he learned to pay better attention to the natural environment in the areas he explored (19:30); “rights of access,” and how it affects hiking in Europe; and the idea of the “big here” versus the “small here” (25:00); how Alastair sought to embrace “stillness” during his experiment (33:30); how the changing of the seasons affected his experience of the local environments (40:30); and the role that imagination plays in having adventures close to home (48:00).

Alastair Humphreys (@Al_Humphreys) is an English adventurer, author and motivational speaker. He is responsible for the rise of the idea of the microadventure – short, local, accessible adventures. His newest book, out this year, is Local: A Search for Nearby Nature and Wildness.

Notable Links:

• Microadventure (local travel initiative)
• Industrial farming (agriculture practice)
• Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book)
• Rewilding (conservation biology)
• Korean DMZ (rewilded demilitarized zone)
• Seek (nature identification app)
• Merlin Bird ID (birdsong identification app)
• On Looking, by Alexandra Horowitz (book)
• Henry David Thoreau (naturalist and essayist)
• Pilgrim at Tinker Creek, by Annie Dillard (book)
• Mary Oliver (naturalist and poet)
• Right of way (public right to hike on private land)
• A Journey Around My Room, by Xavier de Maistre (book)
• Traveling in Place, by Bernd Stiegler (book)
• An Attempt at Exhausting a Place in Paris, by Georges Perec (book)
• Dustsceawung (Old English term for “contemplating dust”)
• Black Death (14th century pandemic)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“I hate the Kansas City Chiefs with a passion reserved only for things that I love.” —Tod Goldberg

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf shares his 2002 NPR “Savvy Traveler” dispatch about trying to watch the Super Bowl in Thailand (3:00); then he and Tod Goldberg discuss how they became NFL football fans as kids in the 1970s, and how this affected their fandom later in life (8:00); how it could be difficult in the days before the Internet for kids to find information about NFL teams and players, and which books they read about the early days of pro football (23:00); the origins of the San Francisco 49ers and Kansas City Chiefs in upstart pro leagues, their more recent fortunes in the NFL, and how the last Chiefs Super Bowl appearance was nine months before Rolf was born (38:30); on watching Super Bowls from overseas and following the Chiefs (or 49ers) as adults, the strengths of the 2020 Chiefs and 49ers teams, and the emotional stakes of Super Bowl LIV (49:00); how the Chiefs have dominated the AFC in the four years since 2020, how this success has affected people’s perception of them, and how the Chiefs’ Midwesternness makes them different from other NFL dynasties (1:05:30); the role superstition plays in sports fandom, how some team fandom comes out of love for individual players, how fandom creates a leveling of social classes, and the merits of “fair weather” fandom (1:10:30).

Novelist Tod Goldberg (@todgoldberg) is the New York Times bestselling author of over a dozen books, most notably the Gangsterland series of crime novels. He is also the director of the University of California-Riverside Palm Desert Low-Residency MFA.

NFL games and players:

• Super Bowl LIV (2020 KC Chiefs versus SF 49ers NFL title game)
• Rolf Benirschke (San Diego Chargers placekicker in the 1980s)
• The Catch (touchdown reception in the 1981 NFC Championship Game)
• Christian “Nigerian Nightmare” Okoye (Chiefs fullback in the 1980s)
• Mike Mercer (NFL punter in the 1960s)
• Marshall Goldberg (Jewish Chicago Cardinals running back in the 1940s)
• 1934 NFL Championship Game, aka the “Sneakers Game” (title game)
• 1940 NFL Championship Game, (73-0 Bears-Giants title game)
• Steve Grogan (New England Patriots quarterback in the 1980s)
• Ed “Too Tall” Jones (Cowboys defensive end in the 1980s)
• Super Bowl IV (1970 Chiefs versus Vikings NFL title game)
• NFL Films: Super Bowl IV Highlights (sports documentary)
• Hank Stram (Chiefs coach from 1960-1974)
• Len Dawson (Chiefs quarterback in the 1960s and 1970s)
• Todd Blackledge (Chiefs 1983 draft-pick quarterback)
• Joe Montana (quarterback who won four Super Bowls with the 49ers)
• Super Bowl XLVII (2013 Ravens versus 49ers NFL title game)
• Patrick Mahomes (current Chiefs quarterback)
• Andy Reid (current Chiefs head coach)
• Jimmy Garoppolo (former 49ers quarterback)
• Super Bowl XVI (1981 49ers versus Bengals NFL title game)
• Jet Chip Wasp (pass play that helped the Chiefs win Super Bowl LIV)

Other links:

• “Pandemic Love: A personal history of nostalgia“ Deviate episode 142)
• Kumbh Mela (Indian Hindu pilgrimage celebrated every 12 years)
• Tod Goldberg on why sports is so emotionally affecting (Deviate episode)
• Matthew Zapruder (American poet and editor)
• West Coast offense (passing-oriented football strategy)
• Candlestick Park (former stadium that hosted San Francisco 49ers games)
• Tom Landry, Existentialist, Dead at 75, by Sarah Vowell (essay)
• Tecmo Bowl (1980s football video game)
• Sears Christmas Wish Book was great American literature (Deviate episode)
• Nerf (toy brand that made foam footballs)
• Championship: The NFL Title Games Plus Super Bowl, Jerry Izenberg (book)
• The Super Bowl Shuffle (rap song performed by the 1985 Chicago Bears)
• All-America Football Conference (professional football league from 1946-49)
• Los Angeles Dons (football team in the AAFC)
• American Football League (professional football league from 1960-69)
• Battle of New Orleans (1815 battle between British and US armies)
• Former Minnesota quarterback Joe Kapp gets in a fight (video)
• Lloyd C. A. Wells (pioneering scout for the Chiefs in the 1960s)
• Historically black colleges (pre-Civil Rights universities for African-Americans)
• Edgar Allen Poe (Baltimore poet whose poem inspired the Ravens mascot)
• 2014 American League Wild Card Game (Royals v. A’s baseball game)
• “A Native American football team beat the 1927 NFL Giants” (Deviate episode)
• “How Mahomes Made 3rd & 15 Magic in Super Bowl LIV” (NFL Films doc)
• Ken Griffey Jr. (American baseball player)
• Lambeau Field (Sports stadium in Green Bay)
• Class: A Guide Through the American Status System, by Paul Fussell (book)
• 2015 World Series (baseball championship won by the Kansas City Royals)
• Golden State Warriors (NBA team based in San Francisco)

Marshall Goldberg in 1940 (left), and Tod Goldberg in 2020 (right)The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Billionaires can’t take a week off? What’s the point of having a billion dollars if they have fewer options than I do?” –Tim Ferriss

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tim discuss common travel fantasies, and the fears that keep people from traveling (5:00); how we can redefine what “wealth” is and live fuller lives (18:00); why keeping a healthy perspective on information intake, technology, and “efficiency” is important, both on the road and in daily life (25:00); the “beginner’s mind,” and tips for writing and creativity (54:00); the merits of going on foot and “getting lost” on the road, and how this figured into Rolf’s writing classes (1:17:00); notions of “success,” and how to definite the notion of success in a way that enhances one’s way of being in the world (1:37:00); and Rolf’s recommendations for drinks, food, documentaries, books, and poetry (1:50:00);

Tim Ferriss (@tferriss) is a best-selling author and podcaster.

General Links:

• Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf’s summer writing classes)
• Vagabonding, by Rolf Potts (audiobook)
• The Game Camera (short film cowritten by Rolf and Kristen Bush)
• Tim Ferriss on how to create a successful podcast (Deviate episode)
• Arnold Schwarzenegger on The Tim Ferriss Show
• LeBron James on The Tim Ferriss Show
• Cheryl Strayed on The Tim Ferriss Show
• Jerry Seinfeld on The Tim Ferriss Show
• Tortuga (bags design for long-term travel)
• Unbound Merino (travel clothing company)
• AirTreks (round-the-world flight planner)
• BootsnAll (online travel community)

Interview Links:

• Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode)
• Man bites dog (aphorism about journalism)
• “War is God’s way of teaching Americans geography” (quote)
• Beginner’s mind (attitude of openness)
• Adaptation (2002 film)
• Anne Lamott (American author)
• Kurt Vonnegut (American author)
• The Hero’s Adventure with Joseph Campbell (podcast remix)
• Flâneur (urban wanderer)
• Situationists (1960s social and artistic movement)
• Psychogeography (exploration strategy)
• Dave Chappelle (comedian)
• John Hughes (filmmaker)
• Rachel Kaadzi Ghansah (American essayist)
• Grizzly Man (2005 documentary film)
• Werner Herzog Reads Curious George (satire)
• Con Air (1997 film)
• Aimee Nezhukumatathil (poet)
• Naomi Shihab Nye (poet)
• Major Jackson (poet)
• Donald Hall (poet)

Books mentioned:

• Walden, by Henry David Thoreau (book)
• The 4-Hour Work Week, by Tim Ferriss (book)
• The Art of Nonfiction, by Ayn Rand (book)
• Writing Tools, by Roy Peter Clark (book)
• To Show and to Tell, by Phillip Lopate (book)
• Screenplay, by Syd Field (book)
• Story, by Robert McKee (book)
• Save the Cat, by Blake Snyder (book)
• A Moveable Feast, by Ernest Hemingway (book)
• Leaves of Grass, by Walk Whitman (book)
• Good Hope Road, by Stuart Dischell (poetry)
• Alien vs. Predator, by Michael Robbins (poetry)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Sometimes it’s good to sit still and let a place move through you instead of you moving through a place.” –Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Vagabond’s Way book club participants discuss how one can be vulnerable to new experiences on the road instead of micromanaging an itinerary (2:00); how monuments to mortality help us think of travel moments in an existential way (11:30); how we can take the mindset of travel back home with us when the journey is over, and how the experience of travel changes as you age (20:00); the role of ritual and ceremony in slow travel, and the simple things we have in common with our host cultures (30:00).

Discussion moderator Luke Richardson is a traveler, author, and DJ based in England.

Notable Links:

• Rolf’s online book club signup
• The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book)
• The Cotswolds (region in central-southwest England)
• Lake Maninjau (caldera lake in West Sumatra, Indonesia)
• Rendille people (Cushitic-speaking ethnic group in northern Kenya)
• Locals often perform a distilled version of their culture (Kenya dispatch)
• Père Lachaise Cemetery (largest cemetery in Paris)
• Frédéric Chopin (19th century Polish composer and pianist)
• The Catacombs (underground ossuaries in Paris)
• Mount Kenya (second-highest peak in Africa)
• What we hope to see in places can be at odds with reality (Mentawai dispatch)
• Long-distance hiking at home (Deviate episode)
• Isiah Pacheco (Kansas City Chiefs running back from Rutgers)
• Patrick Leigh Fermor (English traveler and writer)
• Richard Rohr (American Franciscan priest and writer)
• Marco Polo Didn’t Go There, by Rolf Potts (travel book)
• Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf’s creative writing classes)
• China and Mongolia with my parents (Deviate episode)
• Lets Drift (Kenyan hiking club based out of Nairobi)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“When asked to give advice to young people looking to become travel writers, I invariably tell them to go – alone – and live in a country where they don’t speak the language.” –Thomas Swick

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tom talk about the thematic limitations of memoir writing, and the early stages of Tom’s career as a journalist (2:00); his decision to move to Poland for love, and his experiences living in Warsaw around the time of the Solidarity movement (9:30); the task of writing a travel memoir about events that happened decades ago, and how the American news cycles tends to ignore international matters (15:00); the task of getting started in travel writing in the twenty-first century (21:00); and how travel writers have the ability to bring a fresh eye to places that people who live there might miss (26:00).

Thomas Swick (@roostertie) is an author and writer of The Joys of Travel, A Way to See the World, and Unquiet Days. His newest book is Falling into Place: A Story of Love, Poland, and the Making of a Travel Writer.

Notable Links:

• The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book)
• Misery memoir (literary genre focusing on trauma)
• Aix-en-Provence (city in France)
• Alsace (region of eastern France)
• Trenton Times (newspaper in New Jersey)
• Watergate (political scandal)
• David Maraniss (American journalist and author)
• Pope John Paul II (Poland-born Catholic pope)
• Solidarity (Polish anti-authoritarian movement)
• Martial law in Poland (early 1980s reaction to Solidarity)
• Patrick Leigh Fermor (English traveler and author)
• Tim Cahill (American travel and adventure writer)
• Dave Barry (American humorist and author)
• Holiday Magazine (postwar travel magazine)
• Granta (British literary magazine)
• Holidays in Hell, by P.J. O’Rourke (book)
• Colin Thubron (British travel writer)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“One way of making famous landmarks more comprehensible is to look for surprises, good and bad, that go beyond what you are expected to encounter there, details that open you up to the raw imperfections of the encounter itself.” –Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate – which is a redo of episode 229, which didn’t air properly due to technical problems – Rolf and The Vagabond’s Way book club participants discuss how to break out of standard tourist routines and see places in unexpected way (1:30); how to get beyond the transactional, “taxi drivers and bartenders” layer of travel (10:00); how to become more independent of technology and smartphones as a traveler and find the “wisdom of place” (16:00); and the travel photos Rolf wishes he had taken when vagabonding 20 years ago (23:00).

Discussion moderator Luke Richardson is a traveler, author, and DJ based in England.

Notable Links:

• Rolf’s online book club signup
• The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book)
• Kalash people (tribe in Pakistan)
• Up Cambodia without a phrasebook, by Rolf Potts (essay)
• Henry Rollins Travel Slideshow (spoken-word tour)
• White Zombie’s J. Yuenger on long-term travel (Deviate episode)
• Before Sunrise (1995 film directed by Richard Linklater)
• Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf’s creative writing classes)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Not everyone who’s lucky is talented and not everyone who’s talented is lucky.” –Tom Bissell

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tom talk about Tom’s lack of travel experience when he joined the Peace Corps, and how he dealt with his early failures (2:30); the role that luck (as well as craft and obsessive reading) has played in his writing career (8:00); how, as a writer, to turn real-life people, including yourself, into convincingly human and honest nonfiction “characters” (16:00); Tom “failures” as a writer, the challenges of screenwriting, and the difficulty of writing books that sell (38:30); the book that Tom is most proud of, and how to get out of the success/failure dichotomy as a creative person (47:00); plus a post-interview segment about drinking in Paris (56:00).

Tom Bissell is an American author, journalist, critic, and screenwriter. He is the author of such books as Chasing the Sea, Apostle, God Lives in St. Petersburg, Extra Lives, and The Disaster Artist.

Notable Links:

• Rolf’s Paris travel memoir workshops (annual classes)
• Salt and Fire (2016 Werner Herzog movie)
• Star Wars: Andor (TV series)
• Harper’s Magazine (literary publication)
• Aral Sea (endorheic lake in central Asia)
• Steven Soderbergh (American film director)
• Ryszard Kapuściński (Polish journalist and author)
• A Sense of Direction, by Gideon Lewis-Kraus (travel memoir)
• “War Zones for Idiots”, by Tom Bissell (essay)
• Lucasfilm (American film and TV company)
• Tony Gilroy (American screenwriter)
• Michael Clayton (2007 legal thriller movie)
• Greg Sestero (American actor and model)
• Tommy Wiseau (Polish-American filmmaker)
• The Room (film regarded as the worst movie ever made)
• Creative Types, by Tom Bissell (short story collection)
• The Father of All Things:, by Tom Bissell (memoir)
• Heraclitus (ancient Greek philosopher)
• Stoicism (school of Hellenistic philosophy)
• Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn (Russian writer and dissident)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“One way of making famous landmarks more comprehensible is to look for surprises, good and bad, that go beyond what you are expected to encounter there, details that open you up to the raw imperfections of the encounter itself.” –Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Vagabond’s Way book club participants discuss how to break out of standard tourist routines and see places in unexpected way (1:30); how to get beyond the transactional, “taxi drivers and bartenders” layer of travel (10:00); how to become more independent of technology and smartphones as a traveler and find the “wisdom of place” (16:00); and the travel photos Rolf wishes he had taken when vagabonding 20 years ago (23:00).

Discussion moderator Luke Richardson is a traveler, author, and DJ based in England.

Notable Links:

• Rolf’s online book club signup
• The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book)
• Kalash people (tribe in Pakistan)
• Up Cambodia without a phrasebook, by Rolf Potts (essay)
• Henry Rollins Travel Slideshow (spoken-word tour)
• White Zombie’s J. Yuenger on long-term travel (Deviate episode)
• Before Sunrise (1995 film directed by Richard Linklater)
• Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf’s creative writing classes)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“One ironic anxiety of travel is that suddenly you’re living in ‘organic time’ and you’re not used to it.” –Rolf Potts

In this “vagabonding audio companion” episode of Deviate, remixed from Aaron Millar’s Armchair Explorer podcast, Rolf talks about his earliest travel dreams, and what compelled him to finally take a vagabonding dream trip around North America by van in his early twenties (2:00); how travel expectations and planning are often at odds with the joy of what happens spontaneously on the road (8:30); the delightful surprises Rolf found on a recent trip to Sumatra and the Mentawai Islands (11:30); Rolf’s experiences in Myanmar, and the importance of seeing time, rather than possessions, as our most important form of wealth in life (22:00); Rolf’s early experiences in Southeast Asia, and his monthlong boat journey down the Mekong River (31:00); and how, at its best, travel teaches us to pay attention to life itself (35:00).

The Armchair Explorer podcast features adventure storytelling set to music and cinematic effects.

Notable Links:

• Vagabonding, by Rolf Potts (book)
• The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book)
• Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book)
• Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode)
• Uinta Mountains (mountain range in Utah)
• Mardi Gras (annual celebration in New Orleans)
• Sumatra (island in Indonesia)
• “Travel in Sumatra is cheap and amazing” (dispatch)
• “Seeking crowds is better than crowd-sourcing” (dispatch)
• Mentawai Islands (archipelago in Indonesia)
• “Boredom is one of the greatest gifts of travel” (dispatch)
• Hornbill (tropical bird)
• Bessie Stringfield (20 century American motorcycle traveler)
• Bagan (UNESCO World Heritage Site in Myanmar)
• Mekong (river in Southeast Asia)
• “One Month on the Mekong,” by Rolf Potts (travel essay)
• Henry David Thoreau (American essayist and philosopher)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“A wonderful aspect of traveling by train is the transactional relationship between passengers who feed off one another, picking up tips, offering advice, guarding each other’s belongings, and generating a trust that is unique to railway travel.” –Monisha Rajesh

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Monisha discuss how her interest in train-travel dates back to a series of journeys she took around India (1:30); her more recent experience of taking the Trans-Mongolian train across Russia and into Asia (14:00); what it was like to travel by train in North Korea, China, and Southeast Asia, and how they differ from European trains (28:00); what it was like to take trains across Canada and the United States, and which global trains Monisha likes best (45:00).

Monisha Rajesh (@monisha_rajesh) is a travel journalist, and the author of Around India in 80 Trains, and Around the World in 80 Trains. She currently lives in London with her husband and two daughters.

Notable Links:

• Indrail Pass (Indian rail-pass for foreign nationals)
• Saint Basil’s Cathedral (church in Moscow’s Red Square)
• Eurail Pass (rail-pass covering 33 European countries)
• Trans–Mongolian Railway (long-haul train route)
• Circum-Baikal Railway (railway in Russia’s Irkutsk region)
• War and Peace (novel by Leo Tolstoy)
• Game of Thrones (fantasy TV series)
• Korean State Railway (train system in North Korea)
• Southwest Chief (American Amtrak route)
• German Baptist Brethren (Anabaptist group)
• Qinghai–Tibet railway (Asian train route)
• Skeena (Canadian passenger train service)
• Mandovi Express (train route in India)
• Flight shaming (environmental social movement)
• Sunset Limited (American Amtrak route)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“We live in an age where you can take a series short flights inside a country to speed things up. You end up going to more places, but you experience less, because you're not really committed to that chicken bus full of really interesting people who want nothing more than to interact with you.” –Rolf PottsIn this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Vagabond’s Way book club participants discuss the idiosyncrasies of crossing land borders and traveling overland (1:30); travelers' tendency to take dishonest photos of places, and how tourist destinations bend to tourists' expectations (8:00); the small inconveniences that keep travel interesting, even as we try to avoid them, and the idiosyncrasies of haggling overseas (14:00); how food can be a window into cultures and places for travelers (19:00); common scams that travelers encounter on the road (26:00); and the process of how Rolf assembled the meditations in The Vagabond's Way, and the concept of "walking until your day becomes interesting" (30:00).Discussion moderator Luke Richardson is a traveler, author, and DJ based in England.Notable Links: Rolf's Vagabond’s Way* online book club signup * The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) * YouCam Perfect (AI person-remover app) * Kenny G (American smooth jazz saxophonist) * Applebee's (American restaurant chain) * Mentawai Islands (archipelago in Indonesia) * Brent Nelson sandwich (bar food in Lindsborg, Kansas) * Turkish Knockout, by Rolf Potts (travel essay) * Camille Dungy (poet and writer)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Domestic travel to rural places can be as important as international travel that is more obviously cross-cultural.” –Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Marci talk about how the best trips are guided by curiosity about eight key things, rather than checklists (2:00); what Marci has learned from several decades of writing guidebooks to rural and small-town Kansas, and how these places are worth fighting for (10:30); how urban people can better experience rural places (17:00); using your five senses as a traveler, and other strategies for exploring the nuances of new places (26:30); and seeing places as "mysteries to be solved" (37:30).

Marci Penner (@GetRuralKansas) is the executive director of the Kansas Sampler Foundation, which preserves and sustains rural culture by educating Kansans about Kansas and networking and supporting rural communities. She is involved with the PowerUp Movement (empowerment of those 21-39 who are rural by choice), the Big Rural Brainstorm, and the We Kan! Conference.

Notable Links: * Kansas Guidebook for Explorers, by Marci Penner and Wendee Rowe (guidebook) * Physiographic Regions of Kansas (map) * 8 Wonders of Kansas (travel destinations) * Skeleton Coast (coast area of Namibia) * Sterling (town in Kansas) * Microaggressions (accidental verbal slights) * Big Kansas Road Trip (rural tourism event) * Daniel Boone (American frontiersman) * New Almelo, Kansas (community in Norton County) * Nicodemus, Kansas (town founded in 1871 by formerly enslaved Americans) * Damar, Kansas (town founded in 1888 by French Canadians) * Exodusters (movement of African-Americans to Kansas in 19th century) * Boot Hill (cemetery in Dodge City, Kansas) * Fencepost limestone (stone bed in the Great Plains) * Cuba, Kansas (Czech-American rural community)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“A souvenir can be anything from a travel experience that honors a certain moment in your life, certifies the journey that took you there, and celebrates the confluence of people and places and actions that made it possible.” – Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Suzanne talk about the ways souvenirs help narrate our travel experiences (2:00); the five different historical categories of travel souvenirs (7:30); the old trend of collecting hair and bones from famous people (15:00); what kinds of souvenirs are popular with travelers (20:00); which souvenirs Rolf sought when he visited Australia, and how some souvenirs make less sense when you get them home (24:30); then Rolf and Gina talk about childhood travel souvenirs (30:00); how photographs are a kind of souvenir, and how they create different memories than objects (36:00); and how the notion of "authenticity" in regard to souvenirs can be complicated (40:00).

Suzanne Hill is the presenter of the Australian Broadcasting Corporation's "Weekend Nightlife."

Gina Kaufmann is an essayist and radio journalist, most recently at KCUR, the NPR affiliate in Kansas City.

Notable Links: * Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) * One Month on the Mekong, by Rolf Potts (essay) * Grand Tour (17th- to 19th-century European travel rite) * British Museum (public museum in London) * Elgin Marbles (ancient Greek sculptures) * Boxer Rebellion (anti-colonial uprising in China) * Henry Crabb Robinson (19th century English diarist) * John Keats (English Romantic poet) * John Milton (English poet and intellectual) * On Seeing a Lock of Milton's Hair (Keats poem) * Rue Mouffetard (street in Paris) * Las Vegas Souvenir & Resort Gift Show (convention) * World's Columbian Exposition (world's fair in Chicago) * Omiyage (Japanese souvenir rite) * Día de los Muertos (Mexican holiday) * Père Lachaise (cemetery in Paris) * Neil Armstrong (astronaut) * Auschwitz (Nazi concentration camp in Poland)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“In alien parts, we speak more simply, unencumbered by the histories that we carry around at home, and look more excitedly, with eyes of wonder.” —Pico Iyer

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Vagabond’s Way book club participants discuss how he prepares for the book-club sessions (1:30); how the first days of one's journeys have an optimistic energy and excitement, and how "culture shock" is a real thing (4:00); how travel can put us into a childlike mental state, and how travel expectations can lead to unfair disappointments (13:00); how food, even anomalous food, tells specific stories about places, and Rolf's strategy for keeping a travel journal (21:30); how the "beaten path" is beaten for good reasons, but straying from it yields serendipitous rewards (31:00); and simple strategies for staying safe and dealing with burnout on the road (42:00).

Discussion moderator Luke Richardson is a traveler, author, and DJ based in England.

Notable Links: * Rolf's online book club signup * The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) * Vagabonding, by Rolf Potts (book) * Egeria (ancient Galician nun and pilgrim) * Faroe Islands (North Atlantic archipelago) * Culture shock (cross-cultural anxiety) * Expatriate life in Korea (Deviate episode) * Rick Steves (travel writer and TV host) * Mary Oliver (American poet) * Beginner's Mind (spiritual attitude of openness) * Whittier (city in southern California) * Nottingham (city in England) * Hippie trail (overland Asia route in 1960s and '70s) * Pulp Fiction (1994 Quentin Tarantino) * H Mart (Korean supermarket chain) * Lavinia Spalding on travel journaling (Deviate episode) * Patrick Leigh Fermor (English travel writer and scholar) * Commonplace book (compendium of learning) * The Daily Stoic, by Ryan Holiday (book) * On Trails, by Robert Moor (book) * China and Mongolia with my parents (Deviate episode) * České Budějovice (city in the Czech Republic) * Ranong (town in Thailand)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"We do not just keep and collect things. We trouble ourselves to repurpose, create, and invent things just to carry, a little easier, those stories we cannot live without." —Kendra Greene

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf speaks to the directors of two very different museums -- Dawn Hammat of the Eisenhower Presidential Library, Museum & Boyhood Home in Abilene, Kansas, and Greg Long of Long's Collectible Showplace & Gift Shop in Salina, Kansas (0:00); what people are drawn to in a given museum, and how a kind of nostalgia drives what people look for there (5:30); the ways all museums change and adapt over time, and how museums can surprise their visitors (12:00).

Notable Links: * Dwight Eisenhower (34th president of the United States) * Mamie Eisenhower (first lady of the US from 1953-61) * Barbie (fashion doll) * Hot Wheels (brand of toy car) * The Vagabond's Way, by Rolf Potts (book) * Ozzy Osbourne (rock singer) * Wonder cabinets (early versions of museums) * British Museum (national museum in London) * Beanie babies (line of stuffed toys) * Pez (brand of candy dispenser) * Paint by numbers (popular painting kits) * Nelson Rockefeller (businessman and politician) * Ethel Merman (20th century actress and singer) * World's Largest Belt Buckle (attraction in Kansas) * Greyhound Hall of Fame (museum in Kansas) * Chisholm trail (19th century cattle-driving trail)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Quietly use travel to deepen your life, and to build stronger relationships – not only with other cultures, but with your home. Figure out ways to give back.” –Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and David talk about how travel allows you to "waste your twenties" in a good way, and how Rolf has come to define "adventure" (2:00); how to plan travels in such a way as to leave room for spontaneity, and how to meet people on the road (8:00); how to communicate in a place where you don't speak the local language, and how to be daring in trying new foods as you travel (15:30); Rolf's travel experiences on the Laotian Mekong, on foot in the Libyan Desert, and by van in North America (25:00); how to balance the desire to see lots of places with the desire to get to know a few places well, and what it means to find "authentic" places (32:30); why slow journeys create richer experiences than hurried ones, and how to honor gestures of hospitality (42:30); how the experience of travel changes as you get older, and why making time is more important in life than making money (48:00).

David Martinez is an Associate Professor of Spanish and the director of the Center for Study Abroad at George Fox University in Newberg, Oregon.

Notable Links: * The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) * Marco Polo Didn't Go There, by Rolf Potts (book) * Bosintang (Korean dog-meat soup) * Fried spider (Cambodian snack food) * Beondegi (Korean silkworm street food) * Doritos (American snack food) * Snails as food * Merengue (Dominican music and dance) * Asturian gaita (Spanish bagpipe) * One Month on the Mekong, by Rolf Potts (essay) * Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) * Elderhostel (educational travel for older adults) * "The Loss of the Creature," by Walker Percy (essay) * Heraclitus (ancient Greek philosopher) * Wall Street (1987 movie) * Gap year (student sabbatical period) * Wanderjahr (journeyman year for tradespeople) * China and Mongolia with my parents (Deviate episode)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Not every fearful decision I've made has been bad, but most of my bad decisions have been based in fear.” –Andrew McCarthy

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Andrew talk about the two halves of Andrew's professional life - acting and travel writing - and his transformative first journey on the Camino de Santiago in 1994 (2:00); Andrew's decision to return to the Camino after the pandemic with his 19-year-old son Sam, what it was like to walk for days at a time with Sam, and how being in the 1980s "Brat Pack" affected Andrew's sense of self (11:30); how Sam's attitude toward the walk changed over the course of the journey, and how Andrew knew he might be able to write a book about the experience (22:00); audience questions, including writing advice, what Sam thought of the book, and how travel can expand your view of the world (28:00).

Andrew McCarthy (@AndrewTMcCarthy), who rose to fame as a teen actor during the John Hughes 80’s era, is a television director and writer of such books as The Long Way Home and Brat. His newest book is Walking with Sam: A Father, a Son, and Five Hundred Miles Across Spain.

Notable Links: * Andrew McCarthy on travel (Deviate episode) * Andrew McCarthy Proust questionnaire (Deviate episode) * Pretty in Pink (1986 teen romantic comedy-drama) * Lowell Thomas Awards (travel writing competition) * John Hughes (American filmmaker) * Molly Ringwald (American actress) * Camino de Santaigo (pilgrimage route in Spain) * Off the Road, by Jack Hitt (book about the Camino)) * St. James the Great (Christian apostle) * Oliver! (coming-of-age musical) * Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) * Brat Pack (cohort of 1980s teen actors) * "Hollywood's Brat Pack" (1985 New York article) * Kansas (1988 film)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“The truth is that our travel anticipations, and our memories, have a way of holding only the most striking parts of an experience—the parts that don’t cause burnout.” —Matt KepnesIn this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Matt talk about travel journaling, and a journal Matt has designed for travelers (1:15); why travel burnout happens, and how Matt first experienced it on the road (4:30); why rest days are important to a journey, and why one shouldn't over-plan one's days on the road (10:00); how lingering in places allows you to develop a deeper relationship to those places, and how digital nomads can balance work and fun on the road (16:00); and how to create balance in your social-media habits as you travel (23:30).Matt Kepnes (@nomadicmatt), commonly known as “Nomadic Matt,” is a travel blogger and the New York Times bestselling author of Travel the World on $50 a Day and Ten Years a Nomad.Notable Links: The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) * Keeping a travel journal (Deviate* episode) * RememberYourTravels.com (travel journal) * Experiencing Norway by hammock (dispatch) * Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf’s class in France) * Digital nomadism (location-independent lifestyle)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Things don’t happen in Las Vegas. Things are happened in Las Vegas. All actions in the town are so meticulously predicted and orchestrated that spontaneity itself exists only as the ghost of compulsion.” –Rolf Potts (in 1998)In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ari discuss Rolf's 1998 Las Vegas essay "The Mystical High Church of Luck," and their relationship to their early creative work (2:30); how the experience of Las Vegas depends on what stage of life you're in, how Vegas compares to New Orleans, and how Rolf and Ari have a hard time enjoying themselves when they go there (14:00); the stereotypes that surround Las Vegas, why it is difficult to write about, and how one might find original experiences there (30:00); what it would be like to live in Las Vegas, and the mysteries and mechanics of "luck" (47:00).Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comedian, writer, podcaster, and actor. He is the host of the Skeptic Tank podcast. His latest comedy special, JEW, is available on YouTube.Las Vegas Links: The Mystical High Church of Luck, by Rolf Potts (1998 essay) * Circus Circus Las Vegas (hotel and casino) * Caesars Palace (casino resort in Las Vegas) * Ghostbar (Las Vegas nightclub) * History of Las Vegas * Rat Pack (20th century Las Vegas entertainers) * Casino (1995 film) * At Home in the Neon, by Dave Hickey (essay) * Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (Hunter S. Thompson novel) * The Hangover* (2009 American comedy film) * Las Vegas, Tis of Thee, by Richard Todd (essay) * Fremont Street (popular gambling street in Las Vegas) * Las Vegas Strip (popular gambling street) * Valley of Fire State Park (recreation area near Las Vegas) * Red Rock Canyon National Conservation Area * SEMA auto show (car accessory convention) * Las Vegas Souvenir & Resort Gift Show (convention)

Other Links: Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) * Salvador Dalí Museum (St. Petersburg art museum) * Atlantic City (casino resort city in New Jersey) * March Madness (college basketball tournament) * Joe Rogan (American comedian and podcaster) * Odyssey: Driving Around the World (TV documentary) * Antoni Gaudí (Catalan architect) * Easy Rider (1969 road-trip film) * Roseanne (American TV sitcom) * High Fidelity (2000 American film) * Portlandia (America TV series) * Souvenir*, by Rolf Potts (book) * TraveCon (convention) * Foxwoods Resort Casino (Connecticut tribal casino) * Steven Soderbergh (American filmmaker) * Shepard Fairey (American artist) * Tim Ferriss (American author and investor) * Pablo Picasso (Spanish artist) * Wandering Jew (plant) * Psychogeography (creative exploration of places) * Rock and Roll Hall of Fame (museum in Cleveland)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Nothing against bucket lists, but sometimes that interest that makes you weird and nerdy at home is going to make you vulnerable to all the weird nerdy people in some distant new place who are also interested in that thing.” —Rolf PottsIn this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Vagabond's Way book club participants discuss what compels us to be interested in certain places, and how Rolf's latest book is designed to be read over the course of a year (2:00); how nomads can create consistency and community in new places, and how to find good cities for families in Italy and the Balkans (4:45); how to find places to stay in places where last-minute reservations are hard to come by (8:30); how to choose where to go on a given vagabonding journey (13:00); how having a mission can give focus to your travels (17:45); and how guidebooks can still be a useful travel tool (21:10).Discussion moderator Luke Richardson is a traveler, author, and DJ based in England.Notable Links: The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (book) * Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf's class in France) * Nottingham (city in England) * Fudge Tunnel (sludge-rock band from Nottingham) * Amalfi Coast (destination in Italy) * CouchSurfing (homestay service) * Hitching for pastries (Deviate episode) * Kevin Kelly on Deviate * Storming 'The Beach,' by Rolf Potts (essay) * Marco Polo Didn't Go There, by Rolf Potts (book) * Faroe Islands (Bradt Travel Guide) * The Land of Maybe*, by Tim Ecott (travel memoir)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“You hear how there's many words for snow in native cultures in Canada; there are actually over 20 words for 'fog' in the Faroe Islands.” –Matthew LandrumIn this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Matthew discuss what makes the landscape and culture of the Faroe Islands distinctive, and how Matthew came to study Faroese (2:00); how your motivation to travel to a place affects what you see and experience there, and how isolation affects people's worldview in a place like the Faroes (13:00); Faroese history, art, and culture, and how World War II transformed it (24:00); how the weather affects one's experience of the Faroe Islands, and what it's like to travel there (34:00); and how the Faroe Islands have changed -- and stayed the same -- over the years (46:00).Matthew Landrum (@MatthewLandrum) is a writer, speaker, and teacher. He is the translator of Faroese poet Katrin Ottarsdottir's Are There Copper Pipes in Heaven, and the author of Berlin Poems. He lives in Detroit where he teaches at a private school for students on the autism spectrum.Faroese music, art, and literature links: Eivør Pálsdóttir (Faroese singer-songwriter) * Teitur Lassen (Faroese singer-songwriter) * Christine De Luca (Shetlandic poet) * Viking metal (music subgenre) * Týr (Faroese folk metal band) * Trom* (TV series set in the Faroe Islands) * William Heinesen (Faroese novelist and painter) * Magic realism (style of literary fiction) * Faroese ballads (traditional music and dance) * Ring Cycles (Germanic heroic legends) * Völsunga saga (Norse saga involving dragons) * Hjalmar and Ingeborg (Faroese ballad)

Faroese travel, language, and geography links: Streymoy (largest and most populated of the Faroe Islands) * Tórshavn (capital city of the Faroe Islands) * International Summer Institute in Faroese Language * Norn language (extinct North Germanic language) * Týr (Norse god of war) * The case for trekking on foot (Deviate* episode) * Vágar Airport (only airport in the Faroes) * Akvavit (Scandinavian distilled spirit) * Kirkjubøur (cathedral-ruin village in the Faroes) * Gásadalur (village near Múlafossur Waterfall) * Heimablídni (Faroese home-hospitality meals) * Skerpikjøt (Faroese wind-dried mutton) * Lutefisk (traditional Scandinavian dish) * University of the Faroe Islands (school in Tórshavn)

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“"I wasn't partying. I wasn't relaxing on the beach. I was photographing – working – every minute of the day. That was a means to see as much as I possibly could. And to keep looking.” –Kevin KellyIn this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kevin discuss the ambitions and connections that led Kevin to Asia not long after high school (2:30); how Kevin's interest in photography affected his experience of Asia (7:30); how seeing other cultures gave him perspective on his own culture, and on himself, and his countrymen (15:00); how photography gave him intensified attention to what in the world might be changing (23:00); how AI and other technology are changing how we live, create, and travel (30:00); how to travel in such a way that you are open to phenomenon and experiences you don't know of yet, and how technology might enable a "protopia" future (40:00).Kevin Kelly (@kevin2kelly) is a co-founder of Wired magazine, a co-founder of the Rosetta Project, and he serves on the board of the Long Now Foundation. He is a photographer, writer, and futurist, with much of his work centering on Asian and digital culture. His three-volume photo book Vanishing Asia draws on 50 years of vagabonding travel experiences, and his newest book, Excellent Advice for Living: Wisdom I Wish I'd Known Earlier, debuts in May of 2023.Notable Links: The Vagabond's Way, by Rolf Potts (book) * Leaves of Grass, by Walt Whitman (poetry book) * Communitas (egalitarian ethos of shared interest) * Jan Chipchase (design innovator) * Wired (magazine) * Rick Prelinger (American archivist) * Stewart Brand (founder of the Whole Earth Catalog) * Shenzhen (city in China) * A Pattern Language* (1977 urban design book) * "What AI-Generated Art Means for Human Creativity" (article) * "A Brief History of Smell-O-Vision" (article) * Burning Man (event in the US) * Kumbh Mela (event in India) * Musical.ly (defunct social media app) * "Forget Utopia. Ignore Dystopia. Embrace Protopia!" (article)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"Success is often about finding just enough material wealth to fund the life that makes you happy." —Rolf PottsIn this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Nomadic Network book club participants discuss how travel can intensify the attention you pay to life at home (2:30); how the best discoveries of travel can't be planned, and how you can give yourself permission to travel at all ages in life (10:30); how travel can give you perspective on the notion of "success" (22:00); what various book club participants have learned from (and discovered on) their travels (34:00); and the details of Rolf's annual Travel Memoir writing class in Paris (41:00).Notable Links: The Nomadic Network book club (online events with Rolf) * Marco Polo Didn't Go There book club (Deviate episode) * The Vagabond's Way, by Rolf Potts (book) * Rolf's 2022 appearance on the Tim Ferriss Show (podcast) * On Kawara (Japanese conceptual artist) * Mallory Square (waterfront plaza in Key West) * Oia (village on the Greek island of Santorini) * Tony Perrottet on Deviate (podcast episode) * Real on the Road (David Hunter Bishop travel blog) * Rolf traveling with Sudanese in Syria (blog dispatch) * Sei Shōnagon (10th century Japanese author) * John Muir (American naturalist and author) * Gobi Desert (arid region in East Asia) * Van life before #VanLife (Deviate* episode) * Søren Kierkegaard (Danish philosopher) * Bennifer (high-profile celebrity relationship) * Paris Writing Workshop (Rolf's summer writing classes)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Travel has become a way to remind myself how it feels to get lost, and then get unlost. It is a way to remember the discomfort of uncertainty and the unfamiliar. It’s an exercise in receiving the unexpected.” –Kristin Van TasselIn this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kristin discuss being in DC, living in Kansas, and Kristin's family trip to Mexico using migrant-economy buses (1:30); how seeking international restaurants and grocery stores at home can be a window into distant cultures (8:00); Kristin's motivation to learn Spanish in middle age, and how it connects to her perspective as a teacher (16:00); Kristin's harrowing experience of getting lost on a run in Nairobi in 1990, and how getting lost in a place is a way of experiencing it in a deeper way (20:30); how Kristin experienced the country and culture of Moldova through soups and salads while being hosted there by a former student (34:30); and how to stay open to being lost without compromising yourself, and embrace unfamiliar languages as a traveler and learner (41:00).Kristin Van Tassel teaches writing and American literature at Bethany College in Lindsborg, Kansas. She writes essays and poetry about place, teaching, motherhood, and travel.Notable Links: National Portrait Gallery (art museum in Washington, DC) * Lindsborg (Swedish-American town in Kansas) * Long-distance hiking at home (Deviate episode) * Guanajuato (city in Mexico) * Zacatecas (state in Mexico) * Meeting Sudanese refugees in Syria (dispatch by Rolf Potts) * Hmong people (ethnic group in Southeast Asia) * Salina (small city in Kansas) * Kimchi (Korean side-dish) * "Swamp Creatures," by Kristin Van Tassel (essay) * "Swallowing Fear in San Miguel de Allende" (essay) * Hangul (Korean writing system) * Punta del Diablo (beach village in Uruguay) * Nairobi (capital city of Kenya) * Rolf's 2010 no-baggage round-the-world journey * The Vagabond's Way*, by Rolf Potts (book) * Chișinău (capital city of Moldova) * Anna Gabur's baking-themed Instagram * Borscht (Eastern European soup)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"Running back John Levi is about as easy to stop as a 200-pound eel. With his speed, and his shifting, sidestepping style of running, tacklers slide off of him like rain off a slicker." --From the Minneapolis Star, October 1923In this episode of Deviate, Rolf talks about a 1927 football game between the New York Giants and an all-indigenous Oklahoma team called the Hominy Indians, and how the team's star player, John Levi, was the father of Rolf's junior high gym coach (0:00); John Levi's early years as a football player at Haskell Institute, and Haskell's games against teams like Baylor and Minnesota (5:00); Haskell's game against the Quantico Marines at Yankee Stadium, and how it led to John Levi being offered a baseball contract (10:30); how professional football was different in the 1920s than it is now (14:00); how Osage County, Oklahoma was in the midst of an oil boom in the 1920s (17:30) the specifics of the 1927 New York Giants versus Hominy Indians game (20:30); and how John Levi's legacy was embodied by his son, a U.S. Marine veteran who later became a physical education teacher in Wichita, Kansas (22:30).John Levi, Jr. served as a medic for the First Marine Division during the Korean War. He later taught physical education for several decades at Hadley Junior High School in Wichita, Kansas. Now retired, he lives in Green Valley, Arizona.Sports-related Links: John Levi (Arapaho multi-sport athlete) * Hominy Indians (1920s Oklahoma football team) * 1927 New York Giants (football team) * Playground of the Native Son* (2013 film) * "They Might be Giants" (article about the Hominy-Giants game) * Super Bowl 57 (NFL football championship) * Jim Thorpe (Sac and Fox Nation multi-sport athlete) * Barry Sanders (NFL running back) * Patrick Mahomes (NFL quarterback) * 1923 Quantico Marines Devil Dogs (football team) * Red Grange (college and NFL running back) * Olympics amateurism rules (aristocratic sporting ethos) * Harrisburg Senators (minor-league baseball team) * History of the National Football League * Pottsville Maroons (defunct NFL football team) * Kansas City Cowboys (defunct NFL football team) * Akron Pros (defunct NFL football team) * Buffalo Bisons (defunct NFL football team) * Barnstorming (traveling sports exhibitions) * John Mosier (NFL tight end) * Russ Campbell (NFL tight end)

Other notable Links: A personal history of being a football fan (Deviate episode) * Haskell Institute (Native American school in Kansas) * Carlyle Industrial School (Indian boarding school) * Indian Citizenship Act of 1924 * Osage County, Oklahoma * Killers of the Flower Moon (2023 movie) * David Grann (author) * Hominy (town in Oklahoma) * Fairfax (town in Oklahoma) * Growing up racially diverse (Deviate episode) * Battle of Inchon (Korean War amphibious invasion) * Second Battle of Seoul (Korean War urban battle) * Battle of Chosin Reservoir (Korean War winter battle) * Band of Brothers* (book by Stephen Ambrose)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“For ancient Roman tourists, the whole point of travel was to go where everyone else was going. Sightseeing was a form of pilgrimage.” –Tony PerrottetIn this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tony discuss the habits idiosyncrasies of ancient Roman tourists, and how they relate to modern travel (1:30); the class tensions and expectations inherent in different types of modern and historical travelers, and how the "unexpected" affects these journeys (17:00); the appeal of Egypt to both ancient and modern tourists (22:30); how mythic ages can be a prism through which to see a place (33:00); how travel and geographical endeavor is an important task for a historian (44:30); and how the experience of travel has and hasn't changed over the years (55:30).Tony Perrottet (@TonyPerrottet) is the author of six books, including Pagan Holiday: On the Trail of Ancient Roman Tourists; The Sinner’s Grand Tour: A Journey Through the Historical Underbelly of Europe; and The Naked Olympics: The True Story of the Greek Games.Notable Links: The Nomadic Network book club (online events with Rolf) * Vagabond's Way sweepstakes (online giveaway) * Yousuf Karsh (Canadian photographer) * Petra (ancient Nabataean city in Jordan) * Troy (ancient city in modern-day Turkey) * Grand Tour (travel rite from 17th-19th centuries) * Explorer's Club (professional society in New York) * Lionel Casson (historian who wrote on ancient Rome) * Ludwig Friedländer (scholar who wrote on ancient Rome) * Wenamun (ancient Egyptian traveler) * Appian Way (ancient Roman road) * Gladiator (2000 film) * Sultan Hotel (Rolf's favorite hostel in Cairo) * Valley of the Kings (ancient tomb complex in Egypt) * Felucca (Mediterranean sailing boat) * Egypt's Entrepreneur Awards * Belle Époque (period of French history) * Giacomo Casanova (Italian adventurer) * Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (German poet) * Theseus (mythical Athenian king) * Nero (Roman emperor) * Ephesus (ancient Greek city) * The ancient Greek Olympics (Deviate episode) * Sagas of Icelanders (medieval narratives) * Alhambra (Islamic-era fortress in Spain) * Souvenir* (book by Rolf Potts) * True Cross (crucifixion cross sought by medieval pilgrims) * Holy Prepuce (foreskin sought by medieval pilgrims) * Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf's writing classes)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“A willingness to fail is an important part of difficult beauty. Because difficult beauty will arrive first not as beauty at all.” –Chloe Cooper JonesIn this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Chloe discuss the philosophical concept of "easy beauty" and "difficult beauty" in the context of travel (2:30); how our relationship to places changes over time with repeated exposure (15:00); how art and travel, home and adventure, became important aspects of Chloe's life (23:00); how the archetype of the "Hero's Journey" evokes aspects of home as well as travel (35:30); Chloe's investigation and experience of "dark tourism" in Cambodia, and how it gave her perspective on how other people view her disability (45:15) and how there's no easy way to navigate the polarities of the self, but trying to do so can result in a hard-won experience of beauty (1:08:00).Chloe Cooper Jones (@CCooperJones) is the author of Easy Beauty: A Memoir. She has been a Pulitzer Prize finalist in Feature Writing, and was the recipient of a Whiting Creative Nonfiction Grant, as well as a Howard Foundation Grant from Brown University.Notable Links: Bernard Bosanquet (English philosopher) * Sublime (philosophical concept) * Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf's summer writing classes) * The Vagabond's Way, by Rolf Potts (book) * Lake Como (lake region in Italy) * "The Loss of the Creature," essay by Walker Percy * Teotihuacan (pyramid site in Mexico) * Pico Iyer (travel writer) * Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance (book) * Quality (philosophical concept) * "Such Perfection," (Believer essay by Chloe Cooper Jones) * The High Line (elevated greenway park in New York City) * Roland Barthes (French literary theorist) * Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) * The Sheltering Sky, by Paul Bowles (novel) * Heroes of the Fourth Turning (2019 play by Will Arbery) * "The Grateful Acre," monologue from Arbery's play * Hero's journey (narrative template) * Minangkabau people (ethnic group in Sumatra) * Wanderjahre (journeyman tradition in Germany) * Gyoza (Chinese dumplings) * Thich Nhat Hanh (Vietnamese Buddhist monk) * Killing Fields (genocide sites in Cambodia) * Poetics, by Aristotle (philosophical treatise) * Catharsis (purging or purification of emotions) * The Philosophy of Horror*, by Noël Carroll (book) * Dark tourism (phenomenon of travel to tragic places) * Tuol Sleng (Cambodian genocide museum) * Francis Galton (English explorer and geographer) * Tuk-tuk (auto-rickshaw common in SE Asia) * Sørumsand (provincial town in Norway)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Travel is one of the few activities we engage in not knowing the outcome and reveling in that uncertainty. Nothing is more forgettable than the trip that goes exactly as planned.” –Eric WeinerIn this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Eric discuss the tendency of travelers to idealize the very recent bygone past in places, and Rolf's experience of traveling by freighter ship (2:00); Eric's satisfaction in returning to places he's visited before, such as India, and how to remain open to uncertainty and surprise on the road (9:30); how conversations about travel differ from generation to generation, culture to culture, person to person (20:00); what it was like for Eric to have his book The Geography of Bliss adapted into a TV show, and the nuances behind the concept of "happiness" (28:30); how the experience of travel is inevitably intertwined with the experience of home (38:00); how luxury hotels can insulate you from the experience of a place, and how "adventure travel" is modern concept (43:30); and how Eric's relationship to home, and to time, has changed over the years (58:30).Eric Weiner (@Eric_Weiner) is an award-winning journalist, bestselling author, and speaker. His books include The Socrates Express, and The Geography of Bliss, which is being made into a six-part docu-series, featuring actor Rainn Wilson, and due to air on NBC's Peacock streaming service. For more about Eric, check out https://ericweinerbooks.com/Notable Links: Philosophy compels us to live better (Deviate episode) * Rainn Wilson and the Geography of Bliss (TV series) * The Vagabond's Way, by Rolf Potts (book) * Boatswain (deck boss on a freighter ship) * Seven Pillars of Wisdom (book by T.E. Lawrence) * Eric Weiner's Atlas of Ideas (email newsletter) * Keitai denwa (Japanese mobile phone culture) * Grunge (1990s alternative music culture) * K-Pop (Korean popular music) * Hangul (Korean alphabet) * World Happiness Report * Rainn Wilson (TV actor and producer) * Quilts for Kids Nepal (nonprofit organization) * Ibn Battuta (medieval Moroccan traveler) * Beryl Markham (aviator and author) * Kamba (ethnic group in Kenya) * Thar Desert (arid region in India) * The Geography of Genius*, by Eric Weiner (book) * Yi-Fu Tuan (Chinese-American geographer) * "Little Gidding" (poem by T.S. Eliot) * Uffizi Gallery (museum in Florence) * Teaism (DC-based teahouse)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Travel expands time, because you're not experiencing the everyday of what you normally do. It's all about discovery, and experiencing that with other people.” —Pegi VailIn this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Pegi talk about how she originally sought to depict a "visual ethnography" of world travelers, their global impacts, and their power as a "gentrifying" force (2:00); how the world of travel has (and hasn't) changed since Pegi made her film ten years ago, and how immigrants and migrant workers also represent travel communities just like backpackers and expats (11:00); the ways the notion of "journey" can serve as a metaphor for non-travel experiences, and how travel can expand one's sense of time (26:30); what stories travelers choose to tell about places, and how drug-scenes have fueled travel communitas over the years (31:00); the role digital photography now plays in travel, and the individualized notion of what an "explorer" is (39:30); and the importance of allowing yourself to get lost on that road, the "structured danger" of most adventure travel, and relying on your "personness" (rather than technology) as a traveler (49:00).Pegi Vail is an anthropologist and filmmaker who directed the documentary Gringo Trails. She is also a sustainable-travel consultant whose academic work has focused on visual anthropology, Indigenous media, and the role of storytelling to the political economy of tourism in the developing world. She is the Co-Director of New York University’s Center for Media, Culture, and History. Vail is a founding member, curator, and featured storyteller of the popular not-for-profit storytelling collective, The Moth.Notable Links: The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (travel book) * Williamsburg (gentrified neighborhood in Brooklyn) * Banana Pancake Trail (travel circuit in SE Asia) * Lower East Side Tenement Museum (historic site in NYC) * History of hosteling (inexpensive lodging system) * Hippie Trail (overland travel circuit in 1960s and 1970s) * The Great Gatsby, by F. Scott Fitzgerald (novel) * Hmong people (ethic group in SE Asia) * Nelson H. H. Graburn (anthropology scholar) * Communitas (communities created by shared endeavor) * Arnold van Gennep (ethnographer who coined "rites of passage") * Chaebol (South Korean industrial conglomerate) * Rolf and Ari Shaffir talk psychedelics (Deviate episode) * Backpack Ambassadors, by Richard Ivan Jobs (book) * Margaret Mead Film Festival (documentary film festival) * Spike Lee (American filmmaker) * Melvin Estrella (Pegi's partner and film producer) * J. Edgar Hoover (American law-enforcement administrator) * Eurail Pass (European train pass popular with backpackers) * On Photography, by Susan Sontag (book) * The Explorers Club (professional club in New York) * Saul Bellow (American novelist) * A Field Guide to Getting Lost*, by Rebecca Solnit (book) * Beryl Markham (British-African aviator and author) * Digital detoxing (intentional refrain from using digital devices) * Hippocampus (part of the brain)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"Why fly fourteen hours from New York to Johannesburg to see a South African version of Brooklyn? To me, the only reason to know what destinations are 'hot' is to avoid them." —Seth KugelIn this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Seth talk about how the travel industry both helps and hinders the travel experience, and how Seth first experienced travel when he was young (1:30); tourist desire, the "beaten path," and the contradictions of what travelers seek in AirBnbs and related property-renting services (10:30); dealing with language barriers overseas, and social versus literal risks overseas (20:00); balancing general tourist advice versus nuanced insights as a travel writer, and the role new technologies play in travel decisions (27:00); and why it's a good idea to avoid places that have been deemed "trendy," and how to break out of the bad habits of travel (40:30).Seth Kugel (@sethkugel) is a travel writer, freelance journalist, and host of the Amigo Gringo YouTube channel. He was the Frugal Traveler columnist for the New York Times from 2010 to 2016, and he is most recently the author of the book Rediscovering Travel: A Guide for the Globally Curious. For more on Seth, check out his website http://sethkugel.com/Notable Links: The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (travel book) * Transnistria (breakaway part of Moldova) * Nagorno-Karabakh (breakaway part of Azerbaijan) * The World in a Selfie, by Marco D'Eramo (book) * Principe Real (neighborhood in Lisbon) * Wichita Vortex Sutra (poem by Allen Ginsberg) * Nancy Mitford (English novelist) * Barbarian Days, by William Finnegan (book) * Arthur Frommer (guidebook writer) * Bukittinggi (city in Sumatra) * Malcolm X (American activist and traveler) * Bangkok Post (English-language newspaper in Thailand) * Hindustan Times* (English-language newspaper in India) * "Free Fallin'" (song by Tom Petty) * Punta Cana (resort town in the Dominican Republic) * "Driving Through the Heartland," by Seth Kugel (article) * Chicken Annie's and Chicken Mary's (Kansas restaurants) * Red Queen's race (metaphor about running to stand still)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“There’s no getting lost when you travel, because you’re already there. You’re already where you’re supposed to be, which is somewhere in this new place.” –Ari ShaffirIn this episode of Deviate, which took place at New York City's KGB Bar, Rolf and Ari talk about the premise of Rolf's new book The Vagabond's Way (2:20); why it's important not to postpone one's dream travels to a seemingly more appropriate time of life, and how it's hard for your friends to appreciate and understand your travels when you get home (7:30); how to not let your smartphones and photographs get in the way of your best journey (15:00); how to best decide where to start on a journey, and why allowing yourself to get lost is sometimes the best way to find experiences a place (23:00); why the philosophical concept of "time wealth" is important to Rolf, and how travel allows you to express a unique feeling freedom (31:30); how the The Vagabond's Way is the "spiritual successor" to Vagabonding, and how Rolf keeps travel in conversation with his home life in Kansas (36:00); and how to savor a new place in the moment, even as that place is changing (44:00).Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comedian, writer, podcaster, and actor. He is the host of the Skeptic Tank podcast. His new comedy special, JEW, is available on YouTube.Notable Links: Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf's summer creative writing classes) * The Vagabond's Way, by Rolf Potts (travel book) * Henry Rollins on Ari's podcast Skeptic Tank * Commonplace book (method of compiling knowledge) * Jasmin Shah (photographer) * Wenamun (ancient Egyptian traveler) * Matsuo Bashō, (Japanese poet and traveler) * On Photography, by Susan Sontag (book) * Mentawai people (inhabitants of islands near Sumatra) * Cypress Hill (American hip-hop group) * Pico Iyer (travel writer) * Pagan Holiday*, by Tony Perrottet (book) * Icelandic Sagas (Nordic historic narratives) * Koshary (Egyptian national dish) * Chefchaouen (city in Morocco) * Tétouan (city in Morocco) * Inle Lake (lake in Myanmar) * Eddy L. Harris (travel writer) * Aosta Valley (region in the Italian Alps) * Instagram shot of Rolf's first vagabonding trip * Mary Oliver (American poet) * Lindsborg, Kansas ("Little Sweden") * Lower East Side (neighborhood in Manhattan) * Umbria (region in Italy)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Travel is often one part geography and nine parts imagination.” –Kate Harris

In this episode of Deviate Rolf and Kate discuss how travel can transform one's idea of what "exploration" is (3:00); the concept of borders (14:00); nostalgia and the transformational effect of travel (25:00); the role of home in relation to travel (34:00); and letting adventure into your life (44:00).

Kate Harris (@kateonmars) is an adventure writer, named by Condé Nast Traveler as one of the “world’s most adventurous women.” Her work has appeared in Outside, The Walrus, and Georgia Review. Her book, Lands of Lost Borders, is a national bestseller For more about Kate, check out www.kateharris.ca

Notable Links: * Rolf’s Q&A with Kate Harris (book foreword) * Silk Road (network of trade routes) * Ernest Shackleton (explorer) * Fridtjof Nansen (explorer) * Annie Dillard (American author) * Wind, Sand and Stars, by Antoine de Saint-Exupery (book) * Henry David Thoreau (writer) * My Journey to Lhasa, by Alexandra David-Neel (book) * Aksai Chin (region administered by China) * Marco Polo (historical figure) * Tomas Tranströmer (poet) * Atlin (community in British Columbia)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“I didn't know where we were going, and I didn't know how long we were going to be gone. I brought no food, not even a bottle of water. When that boat left the dock, I felt so free. I threw off all these anxieties about control.” –Carl Hoffman

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Carl talk about the premise of The Lunatic Express, which took Carl around the world on a series of local buses, trains, planes, and ferries (2:30); how to overcome the common fears of traveling in this manner, and how tourism infrastructure isn't required for travel in places (9:30); how making yourself vulnerable to new places leaves you open to the people who live there (22:30); the role that simple conversation, smells, and open-ended activity plays in the lives of isolated communities (30:00); and Carl's advice for leaving yourself open to spontaneous travel experiences (40:00).

Carl Hoffman (@lunaticcarl) is the author of four books, including The Lunatic Express, and Savage Harvest: A Tale of Cannibals, Colonialism, and Michael Rockefeller’s Tragic Quest.

Notable Links: * People, Places & Things (play starring Kristen Bush) * Meridian Hill Park (urban park in DC) * Maggie Downs (travel writer) * "Strange Bird" (Outside article about a pilot in the Congo) * Moluccas (archipelago in Indonesia) * Asmat (region in Papua) * Sambal (Indonesian chili sauce) * Buru (island in Indonesia) * Pramoedya Ananta Toer (Indonesian novelist) * Suharto (Indonesian president from 1967-1998) * Sons of the Waves, by Stephen Taylor (book about sailors) * Sago (palm starch used for food) * Cando (town in North Dakota) * Mentawai Islands (archipelago in Indonesia)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Eat what is put in front of you. They are not making fun of you. The rooster’s head floating in the soup really is given to the honored guest. If you insist on being a picky eater, stay home.” –Tim Cahill

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tim talk about the premise of Tim's classic essay "Professor Cahill’s Travel 101" (1:30); the importance of having a "quest" on a journey (8:00); how boredom can enhance the experience of travel, and why rest-days are important to a journey (15:00); why one should avoid whining (and compulsively talking about bowel movements) on group journeys (21:00); why packing too much gear -- and obsessively trying to save money on the road -- can be counterproductive to engaged travel (25:00); why it's important to be daring with trying new food on the road (40:00); and why bad travel experiences make for better stories than pleasant ones (45:00).

Tim Cahill is a journalist, author, and pioneering travel writer. For more from Tim, check out his Rolling Stone and Outside archives, or his 2004 Q&A with Rolf.

Notable Links: * The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (travel book) * Outside (magazine) * Hold the Enlightenment, by Tim Cahill (book) * Stoicism (ancient philosophy) * Royal Commentaries of the Incas, by Garcilaso de la Vega (book) * Francisco Pizarro (Spanish conquistador) * Book Passage Travel Writers Conference * The Old Patagonian Express, by Paul Theroux (book) * Uinta Mountains (mountain range in Utah) * 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre * Fish River Canyon (canyon in Namibia) * Richard Bangs (travel-TV host and author) * Leimebamba (province in Peru) * Skua (predatory seabirds common in Antarctic regions)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“When you’re not sitting across from someone, you’re sitting across from the whole world.” –Stephanie Rosenbloom

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Stephanie talk about the rewards of traveling alone, and how to mix solo and companion travel within a single trip (2:00); how going alone makes you more receptive to museums, restaurants, and walking in a new play (11:00); how to better savor your travel experiences while they're happening (21:00); certifying versus savoring experiences, and how to balance travel as an external act with a more spiritual internal process (31:00); and strategies for savoring solo travel experiences (46:00).

Stephanie Rosenbloom (@stephronyt) is a travel writer for The New York Times, where she has been a reporter for more than a decade, and the author of the book, Alone Time: Four Seasons, Four Cities, and the Pleasures of Solitude. For more about Stephanie, check out http://www.stephanierosenbloom.com.

Notable Links: * The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (travel book) * On Karawa (Japanese conceptual artist) * Flâneur (urban stroller in France) * The Marais (district in Paris) * The Motorcycle Diaries, by Ernesto Guevara (book) * Thích Nhất Hạnh (Buddhist monk and author) * Savoring, by Fred B. Bryant (book) * Uffizi (art museum in Florence, Italy) * The Birth of Venus (painting by Botticelli) * LiveTrekker (route-tracking app) * Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) * Busking (street performance) * Evernote (task-management app)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"When you travel, you find out what it is you really want. You find out what you're capable of, what your ambitions are." –Paul Theroux

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Paul talk about how brotherly conflict is a time-honored trope in literature, and how travel can be a way to find your interests and ambitions in life (3:00); the ethical paradoxes and hypocrisies of global charities and industries in a resource-rich place like Africa (9:30); how writing fiction differs from writing nonfiction (19:00); and where Theroux is headed next (22:00).

Paul Theroux (@PaulTheroux_) is a pioneer of travel writing and author of many highly acclaimed books, including The Great Railway Bazaar, The Tao of Travel, and On the Plain of Snakes. His newest novel is The Bad Angel Brothers.

Notable Links: * The Vagabond's Way, by Rolf Potts (travel book) * Paul Theroux on the art of listening (Deviate episode) * Paul Theroux on the inherent complexity of Mexico (Deviate episode) * The Great Railway Bazaar, by Paul Theroux (travel book) * Figures in a Landscape, by Paul Theroux (essay collection) * Cain and Abel (Biblical brothers) * East of Eden, by John Steinbeck (novel) * Cobalt mining in Africa * Tim Cook (CEO of Apple, Inc.) * Big-box store (large-scale retail system) * Chinese industry in Africa * NAFTA (free-trade agreement) * Malawi (country in southeastern Africa) * Phil Knight (CEO of Nike) * Dark Star Safari, by Paul Theroux (travel book) * PrairyErth, by William Least Heat-Moon (book)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“A travel journal helps you remember more than what you did and saw. It will helps you remember how you became the person you are today.” –Lavinia Spalding

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Lavinia talk about the section of Rolf's book The Vagabond's Way that touches on travel journaling, what what purposes a travel journal can serve (1:30); how journals give you perspective on the person you used to be, and how the journaling habit develops over time (9:00); strategies for being vulnerable and honest in a travel journal (15:00); strategies for being consistent with a journal on the road (19:00); employing non-visual senses and evoking less-than-ideal experiences to capture more subtle textures in a travel journal (25:30); how a journal gives you a pretext to approach and even interview people who interest you on the road (33:00); how to take notes in the field, how to maintain an ongoing relationship with old travel journals, and why travel journals serve to make a journey more meaningful (41:00).

Lavinia Spalding (@laviniaspalding) is a travel writer and series editor of The Best Women’s Travel Writing. She has author of Writing Away, and co-author of With a Measure of Grace and This Immeasurable Place. For more about Lavinia, check out http://laviniaspalding.com/.

Notable Links: * Jack London (novelist and journalist) * Busan (city in South Korea) * Before Sunrise (1995 Richard Linklater movie) * Bullet journal (method of note-taking) * Clove cigarettes * Rainer Maria Rilke (Austrian poet) * Khentrul Lodro Thaye Rinpoche (Buddhist lama) * Head, Shoulders, Knees and Toes (children's song) * Vagabonding, by Rolf Potts (book) * Travel Writing and Global Change (TEDx talk by Lavinia Spalding)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"This is your one life. Think about it: If you dream of travel, it's not as hard as you might think. You can find ways to make it happen.” –Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ernest talk about how "vagabonding" is defined, how Rolf has come to define home, and what the premise of The Vagabond's Way is (2:00); how Rolf researched and organized the quotes and anecdotes and philosophies that went into the book (10:00); how mistakes and misadventures are an inevitable part of the travel process, and how time is one's truest form of wealth (14:30); how the quiet experience of travel counts for more in life than travel that is performed for status (20:00); how no amount of planning can prepare you for the discoveries of each new day on the road, and how curiosity is more important than expertise on the road (27:30); how over-dependence on technology can compromise the novel experience of travel (33:30); advice for people leaving their country for the first time, advice for people traveling inside the US, and advice for keeping travel fresh over the long-term (38:00).

Ernest White II (@ernestwhiteii) is a storyteller, explorer, producer, and host of the television travel series Fly Brother, now in its second season on PBS and Create TV. Check out his subscription-based membership community, Fly Brother & Friends, which promotes travel and personal transformation.

Notable Links: * Vagabonding, by Rolf Potts (book) * The Vagabond's Way, by Rolf Potts (book) * Mary Oliver (American poet) * Ross Gay (American poet and essayist) * Thích Nhất Hạnh (Buddhist monk and author) * The Daily Stoic, by Ryan Holiday (book) * Commonplace book (compilation of knowledge) * "Song of the Open Road," by Walt Whitman (poem) * Memento mori (philosophy) * Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) * Damara (mountain-dwelling people in Namibia) * Duvall Street (tourist district on Key West) * Bukittinggi (city in Sumatra) * Randang (Minangkabau meat dish) * Culture shock (cross-cultural anxiety) * Isan (rural northeastern region of Thailand) * Sørumsand (town in Norway) * Fly Brother Season Two (TV show season) * Junction City (town in Kansas)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"I didn't go to Africa to "feel African," or become African. What I wanted to do was put myself in the shoes of the person I was traveling next to." --Eddy L. Harris

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Eddy discuss why Eddy's Africa travel book Native Stranger was not always well-received by America's cultural gatekeepers in 1992 (3:30); what is was like for Eddy to travel as a Black American in Africa in the 1990s, and how his experiences there became a book (12:30); how Africa has changed, and is changing (24:00); observations of Native Stranger that Rolf quoted in The Vagabond's Way, such as how to deal with beggars on the road (30:00); and Eddy's experiences being a Black American in France, and his core motivation for travel (37:00).

Eddy Harris (@EddyLHarris) is a writer, filmmaker, and author of several books, including Mississippi Solo, Native Stranger, and Still Life in Harlem.

Notable Links: * Luxembourg Garden (park in Paris) * South of Haunted Dreams, by Eddy L. Harris (travel book) * Malcolm X (American activist) * Alex Haley (American author) * Jufureh (town in the Gambia) * Taxi Brousse (share taxi common in Africa) * Soho Square (garden square in London) * Cape Coast Castle ("slave pen" fort in Ghana) * Mobutu Sese Seko (ruler of Zaire from 1965 to 1997) * Robert Mugabe (ruler of Zimbabwe from 1980 to 2017) * Albert Pujols (baseball player) * Central African Republic (nation) * Josephine Baker (American dancer who moved to France) * Normandy (region in France)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"Naysayers can be the biggest obstacle for people who want to travel. Even if they know nothing about a place, they'll think of reasons why you shouldn't go there." --Ari Shaffir

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ari discuss how the experience of travel changes as you get older, what it's like to record an interview in public in Paris, and how loneliness compels you to be a better traveler (2:00); what it was like to workshop travel stories in class, and how writing for the page compares to writing for the comedy stage (12:00); Rolf quotes Ari from The Vagabond's Way about why it's OK to get lost when you travel, and what it's like when you wander out of tourist zones in another country (22:30); and how naysayers can preempt your travel ambitions if you listen to them (46:30).

Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comedian, writer, podcaster, and actor. He is the host of the Skeptic Tank podcast. For more information on Ari, visit his website.

Notable Links: * Paris Writing Workshops (travel writing class) * Luxembourg Garden (park in Paris) * The Vagabond's Way (Rolf's newest book) * Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) * Deviate Live in NYC (podcast episode) * Thích Nhat Hanh (Buddhist monk) * Callback (comedy) * Xylia Buros: Nomad (podcast episode) * The Book of Delights, by Ross Gay (book) * High Times (magazine) * Chefchaouen (town in Morocco) * Tétouan (city in Morocco) * Tataouine (city in Tunisia) * Farang (Asian slang for white European) * Kathoey (trans identity in Thailand) * Boney M (Caribbean pop group) * Marco Polo Didn't Go There, by Rolf Potts (book) * Felucca (Egyptian boat) * Temple of Hatshepsut (Egyptian temple) * Dili (city in East Timor)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“At its best, travel is embraced not as a flashy backdrop for our lifestyle ambitions, but as an act that touches every aspect of our being.” –Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf reads the introduction chapter from his latest book, The Vagabond's Way, which debuts on October 4th (and is available for preorder now from your favorite bookstore).

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“I think sometimes as travel writers our most important job is to be a listener -- to listen to the stories that people are telling each other in a place.” –Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ernest talk about why home is such an important place in one's life, even when one travels to more far-flung places (3:00); why the vagabonding ethos begins with the willingness to give oneself permission to travel in life, and how Rolf's new book, The Vagabond's Way, furthers the vagabonding ethos in a daily-reading format (15:00); the difficulty of figuring out which place in the world is your "favorite," and how food becomes a part of one's iconic travel memories (32:00); and why it helps to be confident and "ride tall in the saddle" if you sometimes feel out of place as a traveler (41:00).

Ernest White II (@ernestwhiteii) is a storyteller, explorer, producer, and host of the television travel series Fly Brother, now in its second season on PBS and Create TV. Check out his subscription-based membership community, Fly Brother & Friends, which promotes travel and personal transformation.

Ernest will moderate Rolf's virtual launch event for The Vagabond's Way at 5pm PT on October 4th, 2022.

Notable Links: * TV host Ernest White II (Deviate episode two) * "Pandemic love" Deviate episode * Deviate episode with filmmaker Rod Pocowatchit * Deviate episode with baseball historian Phil S. Dixon * Kansas City Monarchs (Negro Leagues baseball team) * Gordon Parks (Kansas-born photographer and filmmaker) * Nicodemus, Kansas (town settled by African Americans) * Lindsborg, Kansas (Swedish-American town in Kansas) * Zacatecas (state in Mexico) * Van life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) * Expat life in Korea (Deviate episode) * Commonplace book (method of compiling knowledge) * The Daily Stoic, by Ryan Holiday (book) * Matsuo Bashō (medieval Japanese poet and traveler) * Wenamun (ancient Egyptian traveler) * Muhammad Ali (boxer) * Code-switching (situational linguistic alternation)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“One thing we like to say [in Antarctica] is that nothing on the continent can kill you, except for the entire continent.”  –Karen Pszonka

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Karen talk about how Karen first got a job in Antarctica (1:40); what weather is like during the Antarctic winter, the research being done at McMurdo, and a penguin named "Buddy" (8:00); what the landscape working conditions, and living conditions are like in Antartica (24:00); what community life is like among the people who live and work in Antarctica (42:15); and the best and worst aspects of working in Antarctica, and how one might go about applying for a job there (1:02:00).

Karen Pszonka (@zonks) works as support staff for the United States Antarctic Program's science research at McMurdo Station.

Notable Links: * Ice Bound, by Dr. Jerri Nielsen (book) * Terra Incognita: Travels in Antarctica, by Sara Wheeler (book) * Doomsday Glacier (Antarctic glacier) * Europa (moon of the planet Jupiter) * IceCube (neutrino observatory at the South Pole) * Sea spider (marine arthropod) * Ob tube (research instrument) * Sea angel (type of sea slug) * Royal Society Range (mountain range in Antarctica) * Hut Point (peninsula in Antarctica) * Medevac (medical evacuation) * Manhauling (human-powered sledges) * The Nutcracker (ballet) * Skua (type of bird) * U.S. Antarctic Program job opportunities

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“I told him, 'You didn't have a long, lucrative NBA career, but that doesn't make you a failure. Yet if you let other people tell your story, that's how you're going to be depicted.”  –Dr. Kevin Harrison

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kevin talk about how Kevin started writing what he calls "smut novels," how he sold them at the grassroots level, and how people reacted to them (3:30); what it's like to represent lesser-known places like Wichita in urban fiction and other writing, and how Kevin came to co-write NBA player Korleone Young's book (20:00); and the way Kevin's music is another form of storytelling that draws on specific experiences and places (29:30).

Dr. Kevin Harrison is a writer, musician, and assistant teaching professor at Wichita State University. He is the author of Cameron Banks: The Reality Show, and co-author of One and Done: The Korleone Young Story.

Notable Links: * Urban fiction (literary genre) * Kaye-Monk-Morgan on Deviate * Korleone Young (basketball player) * Zane (erotic fiction author) * Oliver Twist (Charles Dickens novel) * Iceberg Slim (writer and former pimp) * Dolemite (Rudy May Moore film) * Gordon Parks (Kansas-born photographer and filmmaker) * She's Gotta Have It (1986 Spike Lee film) * Selena Montgomery (pen name of politician Stacey Abrams) * Barry Sanders (football player) * Curtis McClinton (football player) * The Forgotten Phenom, by Jonathan Abrams (article) * LeBron James (basketball player) * Hot Water Cornbread (Kevin Harrison song)

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“I talked as much about the National Basketball Association in Syria as I did about politics. Syrians felt so global and interested in everything. As a young backpacker, I don't know that I appreciated the historical moment that I was in.”  –Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Shaun talk about how they first came to know of Father Paolo and Deir Mar Musa monastery in Syria (3:00); the warm and hospitable experience of traveling in other parts of the country (10:00); Father Paolo's "interfaith dialogue" initiatives at Deir Mar Musa  (18:30); what happened to Father Paolo after the Syrian government cracked down on dissent and protest in 2011 (29:00); and how Father Paolo's monastery fostered interfaith dialogue over debate, and what his legacy is in Syria (43:00).

Shaun O'Neill is the author of A Church of Islam: The Syrian Calling of Father Paolo Dall'Oglio.

Notable Links: * The strangers we meet on the road (Deviate episode) * Paolo Dall'Oglio (Italian priest and peace activist) * Deir Mar Musa (Christian monastery in Syria) * 2011 Syrian uprising (phase of the Arab Spring) * Sufism (mystic Islamic practice) * Neuromancer, by William Gibson (novel) * Tahrir Square (public area in Cairo) * Hafez al-Assad (Syrian president from 1971-2000) * Kurdish Syria (northeast part of the country) * Alawites (ethnoreligious group) * Interfaith dialogue (interaction between religious traditions) * Desert Fathers (early Christian monks) * Free Syrian Army (civil war faction) * Daesh (militant Islamists in Syria and Iraq) * Pope John Paul II (Catholic leader) * Of Gods and Men (2010 film) * Frans van der Lugt (Dutch priest killed in Syria) * Syncretism (combining of different beliefs)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“The noun part of "writer" seems to require outside validation, but the verb part of it -- "writing" -- is something you're either doing or you're not.”  –Matt Bell

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Matt talk about the importance of creative persistence and obsession (1:45); the importance of maintaining creative discipline and keeping concrete track of your progress (8:00); "swooper" versus "basher" writers, and approaches to revision (14:00); the importance of place to narrative, and its role in research (21:15); how point-of-view affects a narrative (30:00); the important of "inciting incidents" and other techniques of narrative structure (38:00); strategies for getting "unstuck" in a narrative (42:30); and counterintuitive strategies for revising a creative work (52:00).

Novelist Matt Bell (@mdbell79) is the author of several books, including, most recently, Refuse to Be Done: How to Write and Rewrite a Novel in Three Drafts.

Notable Links: * National Novel Writing Month (creative writing event) * Lauren Groff (novelist) * IKEA (ready-to-assemble furniture) * Anne Lamott (author) * Kurt Vonnegut (author) * Iceberg theory (writing technique) * Appleseed (novel by Matt Bell) * Scandinavian noir (genre of crime fiction) * William Inge (playwright) * Orpheus and Eurydice (Greek legend) * Point of view (narrative mode) * Graham Greene (novelist and travel writer) * Poetics (work of dramatic theory by Aristotle) * Amy Tan (author)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Travel imparts a liquid language whose sole property is the flow of questions.” –Marcia DeSanctis

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Marcia talk about what it was like to work as a TV producer for Barbara Walters (1:30); how she made the decision to transition into prose writing, and how a sense of curiosity and abandon can inspire travel and travel writing (6:00); how we all change as travelers over the course of a lifetime (13:00); the way the things we bring home from our travels shape our memories of places (21:30); and how travel is a way to reinvent oneself (30:00).

Marcia DeSanctis (marciadesanctis1) is a Contributing Writer for Travel + Leisure. Her 2022 essay collection is entitled A Hard Place to Leave: Stories from a Restless Life.

Notable Links: * Barbara Walters (American TV host) * Muammar Gaddafi (Libyan revolutionary) * The Millions (online literary magazine) * Souvenir, book by Rolf Potts (book) * Alexander Pushkin (Russian poet) * Kievan Rus' (medieval state) * Leningrad (former name of St. Petersburg) * Trans–Mongolian Railway (Asian train route) * A&E Biography (TV program)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Have a bias toward action.” – Chris Guillebeau

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Chris discuss Chris’ quest to travel to every country in the world (4:30); discovering and fine-tuning your passions through travel (17:00); exploring creativity through various mediums, and discontentment as a catalyst for change (27:00); knowing when to write a book (44:00); and overcoming adversity as a creative person (56:00).

Chris Guillebeau (@chrisguillebeau), who visited every country in the world before his 35th birthday is a New York Times bestselling author. His books include The Art of Non-Conformity, The $100 Startup, The Happiness of Pursuit, and Side Hustle. He is also the host of the Side Hustle School podcast. For more on Chris, check out https://chrisguillebeau.com/ or his 193 Countries Project at https://www.instagram.com/193countries/.

Notable Links: * School of Travel (podcast) * The 4-Hour Workweek, by Tim Ferriss (book) * Paris Writing Workshops * World Domination Summit (event) * Ryan Holiday (author) * Scrivener (note management application) * Evernote (note management application)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“"Curiosity is contagious.”  –Sophia Bentaher

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Sophia talk about structuring journey around specific passions and obsessions, and her own decision to hitchhike Europe in search of pastry recipes (2:00); how your national or ethnic identity affects how you are seen as a traveler (13:00); Sophia's experiences as a woman hitchhiker in places like France, Switzerland and Italy, and how she documented her experiences on a spreadsheet (21:00); how the quest for pastry transformed the journey (38:00); how the travel experience led her to open a pastry business in Marrakesh (49:00); and how processes and stories are sometimes more essential than outcomes (57:30).

Sophia Bentaher (@sophiabnthr) is a food traveler and writer, with a French-Moroccan background. Her obsession for food, specifically desserts, led her to drop a 9-5 lifestyle and go explore Europe to learn a traditional cake recipe in each country.

Notable Links: * The Wet and the Dry, by Laurence Osborne (book) * American Chinatown, by Bonnie Tsui (book) * Excel (spreadsheet software) * Hero's journey (mythology template) * Wanderjahre or Compagnons du Devoir (learning journey) * Third culture kid (cross-cultural identity) * Crostata (Italian tart) * Cornes de Gazelle (Moroccan cookie) * The Alchemist (novel)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“The pathless path is an embrace of uncertainty and discomfort. It’s a call to adventure in a world that tells us to conform.”  –Paul Millerd

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Paul talk about American ideas of success, what these ideas mean, and how certain kinds of success don't improve one's life-path (1:30); how Paul used travel and overseas living to reinvent his relationship to time and help put himself on the pathless path (16:30); how we instinctively sense when we're on a wrong path, and what to do when we feel this way (30:00); and Paul's ten principles for embracing the pathless path (40:00).

Paul Millerd (@p_millerd) is a strategy consultant, and the author of The Pathless Path: Imagining a New Story for Work and Life.

Notable Links: * Wu wei (Taoist concept of inaction) * Joseph Campbell (comparative mythologist) * Søren Kierkegaard (philosopher) * Jerry Colonna (financier) * Seth Godin (author) * Tim Ferriss (author and podcaster) * Commonplace book (method of compiling knowledge) * Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (writer)

Ten ways to embrace the pathless path:

1) Question the default 2) Reflect 3) Figure out what you have to offer 4) Pause and disconnect 5) Go make a friend 6) Go make something 7) Give generously 8) Experiment 9) Commit 10) Be patient

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Once I started medical school and my scalpel met the cadaver’s skin, I discovered that exploring the body felt quite similar to exploring the outside world.”  –Jonathan Reisman

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jonathan talk about how doctors and travel writers and both be generalists, and how travel puts can put us into a new relationship with our bodies (1:30); what travel to a place like India can teach you about toilet hygiene (7:00); what eating unfamiliar or strange-seeming food on a journey can teach you about the body (15:00); culturally specific ideas about fat, eating fat, and the idea of being fat (21:00); what Americans are getting wrong about health, nutrition, technology, and the human body (31:00); how the pineal gland regulates sleep, and what we know about it (35:00); and how travel helps us understand how our bodies work (42:00).

Dr. Jonathan Reisman (@jonreismanMD) is an internist, pediatrician and ER physician, and author of The Unseen Body: A Doctor's Journey Through the Hidden Wonders of Human Anatomy.

Notable Links: * Jet lag (physiological condition) * Travelers' diarrhea (intestinal infection) * Gastritis (stomach inflammation) * Sinusitis (inflammation of the sinuses) * Kamchatka (peninsula in the Russian Far East) * Haggis (Scottish savory pudding) * Cholesterol (steroid alcohol found in fat) * Triglycerides (constituent of body fat) * Endocrine organ (part of the body's hormonal system) * Pineal gland (endocrine gland that secretes melatonin) * Ambien (medicine for sleeping problems)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“The worst of what adventurers do is an exercise in vanity, chasing a scrolling, envious audience. At best, an adventurer makes people smile, challenges them to think, brings about change and inspires action.”  –Alastair Humphreys

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Alastair talk about what the task of an "adventurer" is these days, and how Al got his start in adventure travel (2:00); how one might approach becoming an adventurer in this day and age, and how to balance embracing versus recording the adventure (7:30); the nuts and bolts of managing things like sponsorships and social media (19:00); communicating with one's audience, including optimizing blog posts and email newsletters (35:00); working with agents, and when and why to self-publish books (47:00).

Alastair Humphreys (@Al_Humphreys) is an English adventurer, author and motivational speaker. Alastair was the National Geographic Adventurer of the Year in 2012, and has written thirteen books, most recently Ask An Adventurer.

Notable Links: * Bill Tillman (20th century English mountaineer) * Bear Grylls (British adventurer) * Microadventures, by Alastair Humphreys (book) * Buffer (social-media managing application) * "Five-Bullet Friday" (Tim Ferriss email newsletter) * Google Forms (survey software) * Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook, by Gary Vaynerchuk (book) * Alastair Humphreys newsletters * Austin Kleon weekly newsletter * Kindle Direct Publishing (self-publishing platform) * Creative Penn (website for writers)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Part of what enabled me to kiss that stranger was knowing I would never see him again.”  –Colleen Kinder

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Colleen discuss why she started the magazine Off Assignment, and how it came to encompass letters to strangers (2:30); some of the specific stories included in Letter to a Stranger, and the role potential romance can play in meeting strangers (9:00); Rolf's memorable travel strangers, how new travelers interact with people and places with a different energy than seasoned travelers or expats (27:00); places that force us into contact with strangers, like subways and hostels (33:00); and what it's like to see travelers as a stationary person, and what local strangers must think of travelers (42:00).

Colleen Kinder (@colleenkinder) is an essayist and editor whose work has appeared in the New York Times Magazine, the New Republic, and The Best American Travel Writing. She is the editor of the anthology Letter to a Stranger: Essays to the Ones Who Haunt Us.

Colleen's magazine Off Assignment accepts "Letter to a Stranger" submissions from all manner of travelers. If you'd like to submit an 800-1500-word letter to an unshakeable stranger you’ve met on the road, please read the magazine's submission guidelines.

Notable Links: * Leslie Jamison (essayist) * Pico Iyer (travel author) * Interview with Julia Cooke (Deviate episode) * Lavinia Spalding (travel author) * "To a Stranger," by Walt Whitman (poem) * Ficar (Brazilian Portuguese slang) * Speed dating (matchmaking process) * Hijab (garment worn by some Muslim women) * "Blot Out," (Egypt essay by Colleen Kinder) * Craig Mod (writer) * Before Sunrise (1995 travel movie) * Ajijic (Mexican town popular with retiree expats) * Leaving the Atocha Station (novel by Ben Lerner) * Semester at Sea (study-abroad program)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“In the Hong Kongs and New Yorks and Londons of the world you need to find ways to get outside, because it can be depressing to be in a great world city and be trapped in an 800-square-foot space.” –Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Rueben discuss what it's like to come home after a life-changing journey, sharing the story with others, exploring one's own hometown on foot (2:00); the wisdom captured in quotes, and the power of poetry (22:00); the notion of what is possible in less-expensive cities and neighborhoods, avoiding consumerist living, and spending money locally (35:00); the excuses people make to postpone taking their dream trips, and how friends and family can keep you accountable (45:30).

Reuben Dreiblatt is the host of "The A.T. With You & Me," a podcast about through-hiking the Appalachian Trail.

Notable Links: * Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) * Long-distance hiking at home (Deviate episode) * Friluftsliv (Norwegian ethos of being outdoors) * The World Beneath Your Feet (documentary) * Matt Green interview (Deviate episode) * Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) * Lower East Side Tenement Museum (NYC museum) * What narrative therapy is (Deviate episode) * Commonplace book (journal method) * Wanderlust, by Rebecca Solnit (book about walking) * Walt Whitman (American poet) * Standing on the shoulders of giants (metaphor) * Ed Buryn interview (Deviate episode) * Asheville (city in North Carolina) * 52 Places to Visit in 2022 (New York Times article) * Gary Snyder (American poet)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“My pandemic essay was so badly received; I got massively dragged on Twitter for it, practically canceled. And then it ended up in Best American Travel Writing.”  –Meghan Daum

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Meghan discuss what it means to be called "the voice of a generation" (4:00); why Meghan moved to Nebraska early in her career, and what it's like to live and create in the provinces versus the metropole (9:20); the difficulty of continuing to make a living as a creative person, and mid-life career reinvention (16:00); Meghan's essay about moving to rural Virginia during the pandemic, how it was poorly received, and her anxieties about living as a "geoarbitrage" outsider (22:30); Meghan's career pivot into commenting on the culture wars, and how social media algorithms made this cultural rift more of an issue (35:00); and Rolf's concerns that the politicization and performative certainty of social discourse will make young people less open to the vulnerabilities and uncertainties of travel (44:45).

Meghan Daum (@meghan_daum) is the host of The Unspeakable Podcast and is the author of six books. Her most recent book, The Problem With Everything: My Journey Through The New Culture Wars, was a New York Times Notable Book for 2019 and is just out in paperback.

Notable Links: * Girls (HBO TV series) * Rolf's Atlantic essay about Girls (2012 article) * My Misspent Youth, by Meghan Daum (essay collection) * Sophfronia Scott on Deviate (podcast episode) * The GenX Reader, by Douglas Rushkoff (essay collection) * X Saves the World, by Jeff Gordonier (book) * Quality of Life Report, by Meghan Daum (novel) * I Left NYC for Greener Pastures, by Meghan Daum (essay) * Geoarbitrage (lifestyle-design strategy) * Culture war (values conflict within a society) * Alexander Kinglake (19th century English author) * The Daily Stoic, by Ryan Holiday and Stephen Hanselman (book) * Cultural appropriation * Michel Foucault (French theorist) * Quick Studies: The Best of Lingua Franca (criticism anthology)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“We don't have a lot of time on this earth. When you get to my age you've got to use it wisely. The thing I object to most is people wasting my time.” – Paul Theroux

In this episode of Deviate, Paul Theroux and Rolf discuss their travels through Mexico and magical realism (4:30); teaching as a way to get to know a country and the importance of reading (20:00); and Paul’s experience traveling along the US-Mexico border and geo-political complexities between the two countries (29:00).

Paul Theroux (@PaulTheroux_) is a pioneer of travel writing and author of many highly acclaimed books, including The Great Railway Bazaar, The Tao of Travel, and On the Plain of Snakes.

Notable Links: * Sinclair Lewis (writer) * William Faulkner (writer) * Jorge Luis Borges (writer) * Gabriel García Márquez (writer) * Magical Realism (style of fiction) * James Joyce (writer) * Aldous Huxley (writer) * Jack Kerouac (writer) * Rebecca West (writer) * Harriet Doer (writer) * Leonora Carrington (artist) * The Treasure of the Sierra Madre, by B. Traven (novel) * Nathaniel Philbrick (author) * Moby-Dick, by Herman Melville (book) * Subcomandante Marcos (revolutionary) * Zapatista Army of National Liberation (militant group)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Calculate what you spend on a daily basis at home for all your living expenses, cut that in half, and you’ll have a daily budget that can take you around the world indefinitely.”  –Tim Leffel

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tim discuss the advantages of traveling to cheaper parts of the world (3:00); how living overseas can actually be cheaper than your life at home (13:00); strategies to save money on the road (23:00); setting a budget, and counterintuitive sightseeing (34:00); and breaking the myth of expensive European travel (51:00).

Tim Leffel (@timleffel) is an award-winning travel writer and author of The World’s Cheapest Destinations and A Better Life for Half the Price. He is the editor of the narrative web publication Perceptive Travel. For more about Tim, check out https://timleffel.com.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"I realized that Justin Alexander was the latest person to disappear in a long history of travelers disappearing in India's Parvati Valley. It's a dark aspect of this really beautiful place." – Harley Rustad

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Harley discuss how Harley learned of Justin Alexander's story, why he chose to report it, and what makes travel to India unique (2:30); who Justin Alexander was, and what life events and desires led to him being a world traveler and social-media persona (8:00); what makes India's Parvati Valley unique as a mountainous place where backpackers sometimes disappear, and how "India Syndrome" affects travelers (30:00); Justin's decision to live in a cave in the Parvati Valley under the influence of a local sadhu (40:00); Justin's August 2016 Facebook message to Rolf, the timeline of his life before his disappearance (47:30); speculations on what became of Justin after he was seen for the last time, and what his legacy is (57:00).

Harley Rustad (@hmrustad) is the author of Lost in the Valley of Death: A Story of Obsession and Danger in the Himalayas, and Big Lonely Doug: The Story of One of Canada’s Last Great Trees.

Notable Links: * Adventures of Justin Alexander (Facebook page) * Adventures of Justin (Instagram account) * Adventures of Justin (YouTube channel) * Chris McCandless (subject of Into the Wild) * Timothy Treadwell (subject of Grizzly Man) * Hippie Trail (1960s/1970s Asia travel subculture) * Tom Brown Jr. (American survivalist) * Royal Enfield (type of motorcycle) * Mentawai Islands (archipelago near Sumatra) * Hero's Journey (mythic narrative template) * Joseph Campbell (comparative mythologist) * Sterling Hayden (actor and adventurer) * Parvati Valley (mountainous region in India) * Hashish (drug common in the Parvati Valley) * India Syndrome (delusional state) * Sadhu (Hindu religious ascetic) * "Lost in the Valley of Death" (2018 Outside article)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"Mixtapes were more than a way to share music in the 1980s and 1990s: They were, in fact, a type of extraverbal language — a vivid, inexpensive form of folk communication." – Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf talks about the film Cassette, and reads an informal essay about how mixtapes are a kind of lost language (00:45); then Rolf, Liesl, and Michael talk about how person-to-person connection was essential to sharing music in the 1990s, and the legacy of cassettes (8:00); the era when cassettes were a new technology, and the craft and care that went into creating mixtapes (22:00); how finding new music is different in the era of online algorithms, versus what music curation was like before cassettes (33:00); and how music and music-nostalgia is generationally specific, according to what technology was used when a given generation was young (45:30).

Zack Taylor is an actor and cinematographer, known for Cassette: A Documentary Mixtape (2016).

Notable Links: * Cassette: A Documentary Mixtape (film) * Rondo Rolf essay and track listing * High Fidelity (2000 movie) * The Fall (English post-punk band) * Kevin Young (poet and author) * Gouache (type of paint) * KROQ-FM (LA "alternative music" radio station) * Siouxsie and the Banshees (English rock band) * Fishbone (American rock band) * Henry Rollins (musician) * Kurt Cobain: Montage of Heck (documentary film) * Cut-up technique (art method popularized by William S. Burroughs) * Payola (music industry practice) * "Home Taping Is Killing Music" (1980s slogan) * "It's Raining Tacos" (Parry Gripp song) * Lou Ottens (inventor of the cassette tape)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“The Sears Christmas Wish Book was, for me, a kind of foundational text — a secular counterpoint to the Bible stories I learned around that time in Sunday School. I paged through the holiday catalog’s 620 glossy pages as if they amounted to an intoxicating graphic novel of desire, rich with abundance and possibility.” – Rolf Potts, from “Literature of Desire”

In this episode Rolf reads an audio version of his Christmas-themed essay “Literature of Desire,” and discusses the wonders of the Sears Christmas Wish Book with novelist Tod Goldberg (@todgoldberg). Tod is the New York Times bestselling author of over a dozen books, including the novel Gangsterland, which is currently being developed into a television series. He is also the director of the University of California-Riverside Palm Desert Low-Residency MFA, and the co-host of the Literary Disco podcast.

Introduction (00:35 – 11:20) * Vintage Sears Wish Book online archive * What Exactly is Christmas Tree Flocking? from Mental Floss * Klonopin (anxiety medication) * Janis Ian (singer-songwriter) * Enchroma glasses (to correct colorblindness)

Literature of Desire essay (11:20 – 32:20) * Richard Warren Sears (catalog founder) * Mr. Sears’ Catalog (video) from PBS’s American Experience * Sears Catalog Home (ready-to-assemble houses) * That ’70s Show, Happy Days, Good Times, Welcome Back, Kotter (TV shows) * Christie Brinkley and Renee Russo (fashion models) * Pong (video game) * Big Jim’s P.A.C.K. (toy line) * Jay J. Armes (private investigator) * JJ Armes action figure (TV commercial) * “Is Jay J. Armes For Real?” from Texas Monthly * WishBookcom

Sears Wish Book memories (32:20 – 50:10) * Action figures (dolls marketed to boys) * Toughskins (jeans for children) * Huffy (bicycle brand) * BEST (showroom retail store) * “Kerouac’s Fantasy Baseball Obsession” from Mental Floss * Coleco’s Electronic Quarterback (game)

This episode was sponsored by the Paris Writing Workshops, which offer intensive one-week travel-writing courses in the artistic heart of Europe.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

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"When you smell a place, that's when your experience of it starts.” – Rolf Potts

Wade Shepard (@vagabondjourney) is an itinerant writer and filmmaker who has been traveling the world, through ninety countries, since 1999. Digital nomads interested in lending experiences or insights to the documentary film The Nomads can contact Wade at wadeshepard@protonmail.com.

Notable Links: * Baywatch (TV show) * Damara (African ethnic group) * Herrero (African ethnic group) * @lukeoakvt (Rolf’s nephew’s TikTok account) * Malagasy invasion of Africa (10th century battle) * Pollyanna principle (positivity bias) * Mursi (African ethnic group) * FOMO (fear of missing out) * The Beach (1996 novel) * The Beach (2000 film)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"I will never have another vagabonding journey that compares to that first one -- even though I have since traveled to far more exotic parts of the world -- in part because there's something special about embarking on a long-term trip for the first time." --Rolf Potts

In this encore episode of Deviate, Rolf and his old friend Jeff Nienaber talk about their 8-month van trip across North America back in 1994, how they prepared for it, and how it differed from current-day #VanLife excursions (5:30); how they exercised on the road, and how the conditions and travel-hacks of van journeys were different for two young men in 1994 (23:30); the route they took through North America, what happened along the way, and how they kept daily journals recounting events (36:00); the experience riding with cops in Houston, celebrating Mardi Gras in New Orleans, volunteering at a church in Mississippi, meeting girls in Florida, and seeing New York for the first time (51:00); the experience of staying at a Trappist monastery in Massachusetts for one week (1:14:30); visiting National Parks in the American South, Northeast, and West, and memorable books read along the way (1:28:00); and why the trip was life-changing (1:42:00). Van trip preparation and planning links:

• Digital nomadism (travel lifestyle)

• VanLife (travel lifestyle)

• Composting toilet
• Blue Highways, by William Least Heat-Moon (1982 book)
• On the Road, by Jack Kerouac (1957 book)
• Travels With Charley, by John Steinbeck (1962 book)
• Vanagon (Volkswagen van)
• Volkswagen Westfalia (camper van)
• Trangia (alcohol-burning camp-stove)
• A (literal) photo album from my 1994 van vagabonding trip (blog post)

Links regarding early months of the 1994 trip:

• 924 Gilman Street (Berkeley punk club)
• Northridge earthquake (1994 earthquake)
• "The Mystical High Church of Luck" (Salon essay about Las Vegas)
• Lollapalooza (music festival)
• O. J. Simpson murder case (1994 media incident)
• USCGC Northwind (Coast Guard icebreaker)
• Bourbon Street (historic street in New Orleans)
• The Geto Boys, by Rolf Potts (2016 book)
• Fifth Ward (Houston neighborhood)
• Cops (TV show)
• Canton (town in Mississippi)
• In His Steps (Mississippi Christian outreach ministry)
• Waffle House (southern restaurant chain)
• Savannah State (historically black university)
• Debbie Does Dallas (1978 pornographic film)
• Tompkins Square (New York park)

Trappist monastery experience links:

• St. Joseph's Abbey (Massachusetts monastery)
• Trappists (order of Catholic monks)
• Thomas Merton (Trappist monk and writer)
• Memento Mori (existential expression)
• Chant (1994 Monks of Santo Domingo de Silos album)
• Compline (end-of-day church service)

Links regarding the final months of the 1994 trip: * Ocala National Forest (protected area in Florida) * Shenandoah National Park (Virginia wilderness area) * Mount Washington (tallest mountain the northeast U.S.) * Arches National Park (Utah wilderness area) * Fisher Towers (photogenic cliffs near Moab, Utah) * Desert Solitaire, by Edward Abbey (1968 book) * Leaves of Grass, by Walt Whitman (1855 poetry collection) * The Razor's Edge, by W. Somerset Maugham (1944 book) * Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, by Robert M Pirsig (1974 book) * Uinta National Forest (protected area in Utah) * Yellowstone National Park (Wyoming wilderness area) * Glacier National Park (Montana wilderness area) * Pike National Forest (protected area in Colorado)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Life's journey is as rewarding as my travel journeys. It's been fun to travel the world as a slightly older person." – Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and participants in the Nomadic Network book club discuss the stories behind the travel tales in his 2008 book Marco Polo Didn't Go There, including what inspired him to collect the essays into a single book, and why he decided to include endnotes (2:00); which stories stand out as favorites, for both Rolf and his readers, and how Rolf finds stories on the road (12:30); how his writing and his travels have changed in the years since these stories were first written (19:00); what it's like to create a home amid a life of travel, and how journaling feeds creative writing (26:00); and the new book Rolf is working on now (35:00).

Matt Kepnes (@nomadicmatt) is the founder of TravelCon and the author of Travel the World on $50 a Day and Ten Years a Nomad. The Nomadic Network is a global community of travel-enthusiasts who support and inspire one another to travel better, cheaper, and longer.

Travel essays mentioned: * "Storming The Beach" (Thailand) * ​"Going Native in the Australian Outback" (Australia) * "Backpackers’ Ball at the Sultan Hotel" (Egypt) * "My Beirut Hostage Crisis" (Lebanon) * "Be Your Own Donkey" (Egypt) * "Turkish Knockout" (Turkey)

Notable links: * Paris Writing Workshops (writing class) * ​Travelers Tales (publisher) * Wilfred Thesiger (travel writer) * Gertrude Bell (travel writer) * American Notes, by Charles Dickens (travelogue) * Herodotus (Greek historian) * Best Hostel Ever (Deviate episode) * Whodunit (storytelling genre) * Bootsnall (travel community) * Mentawai Islands (archipelago in Indonesia) * Tracy Kidder (journalist)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“You open up a map, and it's like, 'I could go anywhere here.' It's just a world of possibility.” – Ari Shaffir

Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comedian, writer, podcaster, and actor. He is the current host of the Skeptic Tank podcast. For more information on Ari, visit his website.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Putting together the podcast has been like swimming laps or practicing free-throws -- it's creative cross-training that benefits my broader writing pursuits, even as it allows me to explore esoteric topics that fascinate me.” – Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate (which is remixed from Jay Acunzo's 3 Clips podcast) Rolf and Jay talk about how a visual medium like travel gets translated to audio, and how podcasting serves Rolf's creative career (4:00); how the walking episode differed from normal ones, and the walk naturally mixed spiritual and practical themes (10:00); how to approach an interview without an outline, creating unstructured content that is beholden to things like having to take a pee (15:00); ow smooth conversation is often the result of planning and effort, deviating yet remembering what the core topic is (22:00); using spontaneous moments in a strategic way, and how Rolf will organize and plan the podcast looking forward (34:00).

Jay Acunzo has worked for companies like Google and ESPN, and his projects (such as his 3 Clips podcast) aim to demystify the creative process behind creating memorable projects, careers, and companies.

Notable Links: * Long-distance hiking at home (Deviate episode) * Idiosyncrasies of global train travel (Deviate episode) * Thich Nhat Hanh (Buddhist monk) * Paris Writing Workshops (creative writing class) * Guildhall School of Music and Drama * Archive of Deviate episodes with Ari Shaffir * Scriptnotes (screenwriting podcast) * The Rewatchables (movie podcast) * Super Bowl special (Deviate episode) * Why dinosaurs matter (Deviate episode) * J. Yuenger on music and long-term travel (Deviate episode) * Ian MacKaye on rock music (Deviate episode)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“We all have different priorities in life, and there is a place for each of us where we can live according to what those priorities are.” – Winona Dimeo

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Winona discuss what people are looking for in a place to live (2:00) and Livability.com’s latest rankings for America’s most livable cities (23:00). Then, Rolf takes recommendations from listeners on their favorite places to live in America (53:00).

Winona Dimeo (@winona_rose) is the managing editor of Livability.com, a website that ranks America’s most livable small and mid-sized cities.

For more livability tips, check out its rankings of the best small to mid-sized cities in the USA. Livability also publishes its methodology.

Cities mentioned in the main interview include: Portland, OR; Austin, TX; Minneapolis, MN; Pittsburgh, PA; Manhattan, KS; Lawrence, KS; Overland Park, KS; Lindsborg, KS; Ottawa, KS; Wichita, KS; Buffalo, NY; Rochester, MN; Kingsport, TN; Sevierville, TN; Fargo, ND; Savannah, GA; New Orleans, LA; Cincinnati, OH; Yellow Springs, OH; Athens, OH; Astoria, OR; Lincoln City, OR; Nashville, TN; Asheville, NC; Black Mountain, NC; Brevard, NC; Traverse City, MI; Marfa, TX; Charleston, SC; Bend, OR; and Hood River, OR.

Notable Links: * Konza Prairie (biological preserve) * Tallgrass National Prairie Preserve * Kanopolis State Park * Stiefel Theater * "One of the Coolest Cities in America Doesn't Even Realize It Yet" (Thrillist article) * Dollywood (theme park) * Alicia Underlee Nelson (travel writer) * Gooding (band) * 1,000 Places to See Before You Die, by Patricia Shultz (book) * Oregon Shakespeare Festival * Transcendental Meditation * Wollowa Mountains (mountain range) * Terminal Gravity (brewery) * Maharishi Vastu Architecture

Audio contributors: * Adam Karlin (Staunton, VA) * Alicia Ard (Bend, OR) * Sarah Bell (Phoenixville, Pennsylvania) * Gooding (Kingston Springs, TN) * Steven Gray (Pensacola, FL) * Avery Gunns (Truth or Consequences, NM) * Max Hartshorne (Northampton, MA) * Michele Hermann (Buffalo, NY) * Karen Hugg (Ashland, OR) * Jamie-Lee Josselyn (Galena, IL) * Brian Kevin (Joseph, OR and Enterprise, OR) * Tim Leffel (Chattanooga, TN) * Deborah Lewis (Middlebury, VT) * Dinty W. Moore (Athens, OH) * Chrystine Olson (Graham, NC) * Patricia Schultz (Beacon, NY) * Jessica Voigts (Traverse City, MI) * Jason Wisdom (Fairfield, IA)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"Holiday gave its writers room to tell a comprehensive story. A place was evoked in thousands of words instead of the usual 800 we are now accustomed to reading." – Pamela Fiori

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Pamela talk about the origins of Holiday Magazine, why it attracted good writers, and how its creation was connected to advertising markets (2:15); famous articles to appear in the magazine, and why it was successful (7:00); who the magazine's audience was, how television and political-cultural changes in America affected things in the 1960s (15:00); the decline of Holiday Magazine magazine amid the economic and cultural changes of the 1970s, and why there are no archives (24:30); and the legacy of Holiday Magazine in the 21st century.

Pamela Fiori made publishing history in May 1993, when she became the first woman to be named editor in chief of Town & Country, America's oldest continuously published general-interest magazine. She is the author of Holiday: The Best Travel Magazine that Ever Was.

Notable Links: * Holiday Magazine (travel publication) * See the USA in Your Chevrolet (song performed by Dinah Shore) * The Dinah Shore Chevy Show (1950s TV show) * Travels with Charley (1962 John Steinbeck travel book) * Saturday Evening Post (American general-interest magazine) * Ladies' Home Journal (American women's magazine) * Curtis Publishing (American magazine publisher) * Ted Patrick (magazine editor) * Joan Didion (American essayist) * Roger Angell (American essayist) * Here is New York (essay and book by E.B. White) * Mad Men (TV show about advertising) * Big Sur (coastal region of central California) * Travel + Leisure (American travel magazine) * Mag Men, by Walter Bernard (book)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"In ancient Greece, entire eras were measured by Olympiads. It's how history was arranged. The Olympics were that important." – Tony Perrottet

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tony discuss how the ancient games was a religious festival, now it was never delayed, and why it was important (2:00) non-sports events that happened the the ancient Games, performance enhancing potions, and Greek competitiveness (17:00); the sporting events competed in the ancient games, and how they differed from modern sports (24:00); the training and diet that went into the games, aristocrats versus commoners who competed, and which ancient Olympians are still remembered (32:00); and what non-Greeks thought to the games, Greek skeptics of the games, and what it's like to travel to the old sites of the ancient Greek games (45:30).

Tony Perrottet (@TonyPerrottet) is the author of six books, including Pagan Holiday: On the Trail of Ancient Roman Tourists; The Sinner's Grand Tour: A Journey Through the Historical Underbelly of Europe; and The Naked Olympics: The True Story of the Greek Games, upon which this interview is based.

Notable Links: * Ancient Olympic Games (sporting festival) * Olympia, Greece (location of the ancient Games) * Statue of Zeus at Olympia (ancient tourist attraction) * Herodotus (ancient Greek historian) * Pausanias (ancient Greek geographer) * Symposium (ancient Greek drinking banquet) * Monty Python (British comedy troupe) * Gilgamesh (Mesopotamian mythological hero) * Enkidu (Mesopotamian mythological hero) * Funeral games (ancient honor ritual) * Pankration (ancient fighting sport) * Ben Hur (epic historical movie) * Pierre de Coubertin (founder of the modern Olympics) * Milo of Croton (ancient Greek wrestler) * 300 (2007 epic historical movie) * Battle of Thermopylae (ancient Greek battle) * Diogenes the Cynic (ancient Greek philosopher) * Karate gets its due at the Olympics, by Tony Perrottet (article)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"Don't define your journey while you're still on it. Be open to it. Don't think it's only going to be one way." – Paul Barach

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Paul discuss why Paul chose Japan for a pilgrimage, and the seven categories of disciplines he used on the hike (1:40); the route and history of the Shikoku Pilgrimage (9:40); Paul's experiences on the trail (21:00); and Paul's lessons and regrets from the trip, including why you shouldn't define your journey while you're still on it (34:30).

Paul Barach is a stand-up comic, storyteller, producer, and writer. He is the author of Fighting Monks and Burning Mountains, about his experience hiking the Shikoku Pilgrimage trail.

Notable Links: * Kūkai (Japanese Buddhist monk) * Burning Mountain Temple (Shikoku pilgrimage site) * Camino de Santiago (Spain pilgrimage route) * Shikoku Henro Trail (online resource) * Ryokan (Japanese inn) * Kyokushin (karate style) * Gōjū-ryū (karate style) * Ichiro Suzuki (Japanese baseball player)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"Travel is life's best education, if you allow it be." – Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf remixes his interview from the Looking Up Podcast, by Max McCoy. They discuss why travel is a great catalyst for finding direction in life (1:30); how being lonely, lost, and bored allow you to experience travel in a deeper, more vulnerable, more spiritual way (12:30); how traveling and journaling about it can focus one's writing discipline (20:00); the relationship of one's travels and one's work over time (31:00); how to whet your travel appetite by finding adventures at home, and how to navigate relationships as a traveler (41:30); the weird ways souvenirs can deepen the experience and memory of travel (46:00); and Rolf's life advice to his younger self (50:00).

Max McCoy is the host of the Looking Up podcast.

Notable Links: * Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) * Epiphanies of expatriate life in Korea (Deviate episode) * Time Wealth and the spiritual texture of travel (Deviate episode) * Thomas Merton (American monk and writer) * Rumi (13th-century Persian poet) * Stephen King (American horror author) * Astronaut pen (writing tool) * Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf's writing classes) * Geoarbitrage (lifestyle-location strategy) * Robert Creeley (American poet) * Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) * One Month On the Mekong, by Rolf Potts (essay) * Donald Barthelme (American author)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"Digital nomadism is still being figured out. In twenty years digital nomadism will have a concrete reality that we can't even predict now." – Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, which is excerpted from an in-progress documentary called The Nomads, filmmaker Anne von Petersdorff asks Rolf to discuss how digital nomadism is defined, how it has emerged from earlier generations of travel and human mobility, and how it is more than just a "Western" trend (3:00); how the digital nomad movement will affect the nation-state and global citizenship, and how these notions have historically always been in flux (10:00); the importance of respecting local cultures versus treating destinations as utilitarian backdrops, and how the concept of digital nomadism is changing (24:00); and what happens to the concept of "home" when one is leading a nomadic life (32:30).

Anne von Petersdorff is a scholar, writer, filmmaker, and educator from Berlin, Germany. Wade Shepard (@vagabondjourney) is an itinerant writer and filmmaker who has been traveling the world, through ninety countries, since 1999.

Digital nomads interested in lending experiences or insights to the documentary film The Nomads can contact producer Wade Shepard at wadeshepard@protonmail.com.

Notable Links: * Digital nomadism (location-independent lifestyle) * Nation-state (political unit) * Social welfare (government support for individuals) * Go Viral (media festival in Kazakhstan) * China and Mongolia with my parents (Deviate episode) * In Patagonia, by Bruce Chatwin (travel book) * Epiphanies of expatriate life in Korea (Deviate episode) * @lukeoakvt (Rolf's nephew's TikTok account) * Grand Tour (upper-class 18th/19th century travel ritual) * Thomas Cook (19th century travel entrepreneur) * Dispatches, by Michael Herr (Vietnam War book)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"Stewardesses were instructed to not serve caffeinated beverages or alcohol during a hijacking, and were encouraged to use their femininity to manipulate the hijackers." – Julia Cooke

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Julia talk about how Julia came to write a book about international airline stewardesses in the golden age of jet travel, and how commercial air travel as we know it came of age more than half a century ago (1:30); what Pan Am was, what made it special, and the role of stewardesses on the airline (11:00); the former Pan Am stewardesses that Julia interviewed, how she found them, and what she learned from them (18:30); how stewardesses foreshadowed and became a unique part of the feminist movement (26:00); how military flights, refugee flights, and hijackings were a common part of the Pan Am flight experience in the 1970s (30:00); and the research methods and surprises that came with writing Julia's book (41:00).

Julia Cooke (@juliaccooke) has written for Condé Nast Traveler, The New York Times, Playboy, The Village Voice, and The Atavist. She is the author of Come Fly The World and The Other Side of Paradise: Life in the New Cuba. More about her at https://www.juliacooke.com/

Notable Links: * PanAm (airline) * Eero Saarinen (architect) * Paul Theroux (author) * Italo Calvino (author) * Second wave of feminism (social movement) * The Power of Glamour, by Virginia Postrel (book) * Internationalism (movement) * Coffee, Tea, or Me? (fictitious 1967 memoir) * The Skies Belong to Us, by Brendan I. Koerner (book) * Barbara Romack (pro golfer) * Flag carrier (type of airline company) * Operation Babylift (1975 evacuation of children from Vietnam)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Wanderlust can dictate the course of your life.” – Dave Seminara

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Dave discuss the philosophical underpinnings of wanderlust (2:00); the subculture of competitive travelers (10:00); the mystery of William Baekeland (20:00); and the impact of wanderlust on peoples’ lives (44:00).

Dave Seminara is a writer and former diplomat. His latest book, Mad Travelers: A Tale of Wanderlust, Greed and the Quest to Reach the Ends of the Earth, is a deep exploration of wanderlust, focused around the true story of William Baekeland, a young Brit who conned many of the world’s most traveled people as they sought to reach the planet’s most remote and off-limits places. For more about Dave, check out his website at https://daveseminara.com.

Notable Links: * Most Traveled People (club) * Nomadmania (club) * The Travelers’ Century Club (club) * Charles Veley (traveler)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“This is a weird time to be grateful for, but I'm sure we'll feel heaps of nostalgia for it.” – Kristen "Kiki" Bush

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kiki talk about how interacting with objects from your past (or getting rid of them) forces a kind of nostalgia on you (2:00); how cultural nostalgia can fall on generational lines, and how venues like YouTube curate generational nostalgia (7:30); how nostalgia can hinge on sports and music from the past, how going to concerts to reconnect with times of your life, and the phenomena known as the "nostalgia bump" (12:00); how journals are a way to collect and hold on to moments and memories, and what it feels like to revisit them (24:00); how technology has changed the way we interact with other people, as well as the way we experience things and remember and revisit things (31:30); and how it's hard to tell what from the current moment will evoke nostalgia later (36:00).

Kristen “Kiki” Bush is an actress, known for Paterno (2018), Liberal Arts (2012), and Synecdoche, New York (2008). Her TV credits include The Affair, The Good Wife, Elementary, and Law & Order: SVU. She has performed onstage at Manhattan Theatre Club, The Public, the Old Globe, Goodman Theatre, and Lincoln Center.

Notable Links: * A personal history of nostalgia (Deviate episode) * Revisiting "American Pilgrim" (Deviate episode) * Generation X (demographic cohort) * Emergency! (TV show) * Denny Matthews (Kansas City Royals announcer) * Disintegration (1989 album by The Cure) * Robert Smith (musician) * Dillon's (Kansas supermarket chain) * Van life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) * "I Wanna Go Back" (Billy Satellite song sung by Eddie Money) * "If You Don't Know Me by Now" (1972 Harold Melvin song) * Our Town (play by Thornton Wilder) * The Joshua Tree (album by U2) * 2017 Joshua Tree Tour (U2 30th anniversary album tour) * Live Aid (1985 benefit concert) * Achtung Baby (1991 U2 album) * Kyuss (1990s rock band) * Cleveland Browns (pro football team) * NCIS: New Orleans (TV show)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"For as much as we seek our paths and have questions about the journey, there is a sense deep within us, like a primeval compass, that shows we already know where to go." – Sophfronia Scott

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Sophfronia talk about how they came to know of Merton, and how his journals reveal his truer self (2:00); being "spiritual but not religious," the language of beholding versus the language of belief, and how interactions with nature are a spiritual exercise (9:00); human versus divine love, and how the most spiritual moments are often the most difficult ones in life (17:00); the importance of seeking a life of needing less, and how not be in a constant state of wanting (25:00); contemplation versus activism, learning to love people we do not agree with, and regulating desire in a world of abundance (34:30); and what Merton's example can teach us in the 21st century, in an age of click-bait and decontextualized life (45:00).

Sophfronia Scott (@Sophfronia) is the author of five books. Her newest, The Seeker and the Monk, is about Catholic writer and activist Thomas Merton. She last appeared on Deviate to discuss mid-life career change, and her role in defining Generation X.

Notable Links: * Thomas Merton (monk and writer) * Merton Prayer * Conjectures of a Guilt Bystander (1968 Merton book) * The Seven Storey Mountain (1948 Merton autobiography) * The Asian Journal of Thomas Merton (1975 book) * Festival of Faith and Writing * Barbara Brown Taylor (theologian) * New Seeds of Contemplation (1962 Merton book) * Moonstruck (1987 movie) * Abbey of Gethsemani (Merton's monastery in Kentucky) * Henri Nouwen (theologian) * 2021 Capitol insurrection (attack on the U.S. Congress) * Sandy Hook shooting (2012 mass shooting)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"I came to live and work in Korea and walked out two years later way more equipped in life, not just as a traveler, but as a person." – Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and his old friends Brian and Steve talk about the factors that led them to live and work in South Korea when they were in their twenties, and what they experienced when they first arrived (2:30); the cultural differences, idiosyncrasies, and lessons learned as expat English teachers during South Korea's globalization boom-years (17:30); culture shock, North Korean provocations, anti-U.S. sentiment, and how what was "normal" was different in Korea than in the U.S. (30:00); drinking-culture, dating rituals, expat meltdowns, what they loved about being in Korea, and how it changed their lives (47:30).

Notable Links: * Lost Generation (Paris expats in the 1920s) * Jeonju (city in South Korea) * Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) * Mid-20s crisis (quarter-life anxiety) * Michael Bolton (American singer) * Culture shock (cross-cultural disorientation) * Confucianism (Asian system of behavior) * Hagwon (private learning academies in Korea) * Parasite (2019 South Korean movie) * Chan-Ho Park (Korean MLB baseball player) * Sunshine Policy (South Korean diplomacy) * Dokdo (islet disputed between Korea and Japan) * Busan (city in South Korea) * Korean bathhouse (sex-segregated spas) * Bosintang (Korean dog-meat strew) * Man Bites Dog, by Rolf Potts (essay) * Tico (small Daewoo car in the 1990s) * Ondol (Korean heated floor)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“All writing is trying to destroy a stereotype, and the individual that you’re writing about — the figure in the landscape — is actually the ideal.” —Paul Theroux

Paul Theroux‘s highly acclaimed novels include Blinding Light, My Other Life, and The Mosquito Coast. His 1975 book The Great Railway Bazaar is credited with revitalizing the genre of literary travel writing, and his more recent travel books include Ghost Train to the Eastern Star, Dark Star Safari, and The Last Train to Zona Verde. His newest book, out this month, is Under the Wave at Waimea.

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Paul talk about Theroux’s book Figures in a Landscape, and strategies for writing about the “human architecture of a place” (4:30); the attitude and time-investment required for meaningful travel reportage (19:30); the qualities that determine successful travel writing (24:50); the essential discomforts and obstacles of travel (31:45); the uses and shortcomings of paper maps in developing countries (39:15); and where Paul is traveling next (45:00).

Books, articles, and films mentioned * “Paul Theroux on Blogging, Travel Writing, and ‘Three Cups of Tea’” (2011 Atlantic interview) * The Great Railway Bazaar, by Paul Theroux * The Mosquito Coast, by Paul Theroux * The Tao of Travel, by Paul Theroux * Deep South, by Paul Theroux * American Notes, by Charles Dickens * Barbary Shore, by Norman Mailer * Journey Without Maps, by Graham Greene * Sea and Sardinia, by D.H. Lawrence * Travels, by Ibn Battuta * Travels, by Marco Polo * Lafcadio Hearn’s Japan: An Anthology * India: A Million Mutinies Now, by V.S. Naipaul * “Paul Theroux’s Quest to Define Hawaii” (2012 Smithsonian article) * “Mandalay,” by Rudyard Kipling (poem) * Rashomon (1950 Akira Kurosawa film) * The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp (1943 film)

People mentioned * Doris Lessing (novelist and poet) * Tom Wolfe (author and journalist) * Robin Williams (actor and comedian) * Elizabeth Taylor (actress) * Michael Jackson (singer-songwriter) * Rod Steiger (actor) * Mike Nichols (film director) * Margaret Mead (anthropologist) * Colin Turnbull (anthropologist) * Bronislaw Malinowski (anthropologist)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“If you put Harrison Ford, Sting, and Andy Chapman in a room together in Kansas in 1981, the girls of Kansas would have trampled the actor and the rock star in an effort to get closer to the charismatic young soccer player.” – Rolf Potts

In this essay episode of Deviate, Rolf talks about the iconically 1980s sports phenomenon known as Major League Indoor Soccer, and how the league came about (5:00); his childhood fixation with the Wichita Wings, and how the presence of the pro soccer team and its players affected his mid-sized Kansas hometown (11:00); and the most famous game in MISL history, which pitted the Wings against the St. Louis Steamers, and what became of major league indoor soccer -- and its legacy --as the 1980s wound down (23:00).

God Save the Wings (@GodSaveTheWings) is a feature-length documentary about the Wichita Wings, an indoor soccer team of European party boys who went toe-to-toe with all major markets in the crazy 1980s. Its latest screening is April 12-18, 2021 at Kansas City FilmFest International.

Tim O'Bryhim (@WichitaStory) is the producer of God Save the Wings, and co-author of Make This Town Big: The Story of Roy Turner and the Wichita Wings.

Notable Links: * Wichita Wings (indoor soccer team) * NASL (American outdoor soccer league) * Henry Kissinger (politician and diplomat) * Pele (Brazilian soccer player) * MISL (soccer league) * Show, Sex, and Suburbs (Sports Illustrated article) * Norman Lear (TV producer) * Green Bay Packers (NFL football team) * Krazy George (professional cheerleader) * Andy Chapman (MISL soccer player) * Nolan Ryan (baseball player) * Tony Dorsett (football player) * St. Louis Steamers (indoor soccer team) * Slobo Ilijevski (MISL soccer player) * Mike Dowler (MISL soccer player) * New York Arrows (indoor soccer team) * ESPN (sports TV network) * FNN-Score (sports TV network)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Baseball history needs to be looked at again. The statistics don't make sense unless you understand the story that went behind those numbers.” – Phil S. Dixon

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Phil talk about the racial integration of Major League baseball in 1947, and the decades of high-level black baseball that came before it (4:00); how baseball was segregated in the 19th century, and why the Negro Leagues were formed in the early 20th (9:30); "barnstorming" baseball in local communities in places like Kansas, and what life on the road was like for these black teams (17:00); how Phil researched the history of the Negro Leagues, and the challenge of finding century-old game statistics (29:30); and how the Negro Leagues stars compare to other baseball players from history (39:00).

Phil S. Dixon (@NegroLeagueMan) is the author of seven books about baseball, and cofounder of the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum in Kansas City.

Notable Links: * J. L. Wilkinson (owner of the Kansas City Monarchs) * All Nations (barnstorming professional baseball team) * Barnstorming (traveling sports matches) * Bud Fowler (pre-segregation professional player) * Pythian Baseball Club (19th century black baseball team) * Moses Fleetwood Walker (baseball player) * Rube Foster (founder of the Negro Leagues) * Topeka Jack Johnson (baseball player) * House of David (baseball team from a Michigan commune) * Grover Cleveland Alexander (baseball player) * George Giles (baseball player) * Only the Ball Was White, by Robert Peterson (book) * Negro Baseball Leagues: A Photographic History, by Phil S. Dixon (book) * The 1931 Homestead Grays, by Phil S. Dixon (book) * Buck O'Neil (baseball player, manager, and scout) * Satchel Paige (baseball player)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Asking questions about travel, and exploring ways philosophy has changed travel, can help us think more deeply about our journeys.” – Emily Thomas

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Emily discuss the relationship between philosophy and travel (2:00); speculative fiction as a form of travel writing, and the relationship between feminism and travel (13:30); maps as a way of representing the world, and the aesthetic significance of mountains (24:00); beauty versus the sublime, and American naturalism and literature (32:00); and "cabin porn" and doom travel (40:00).

Emily Thomas (@emilytwrites) is an Associate Professor in Philosophy at Durham University. She completed her PhD at the University of Cambridge, and has published extensively on the philosophy of space and time. She is the author of The Meaning of Travel. For more about Emily, check out https://emilythomaswrites.co.uk.

Notable Links: * Age of Discovery (period of European exploration) * Francis Bacon (philosopher) * Robinson Crusoe, by Daniel Defoe (book) * The Blazing World, by Margaret Cavendish (book) * Mary Kingsley (explorer) * Isabella Bird (explorer/writer) * Mary Wollstonecraft (philosopher/writer) * Egeria (pilgrim) * Utopia, by Thomas More (book) * Henry David Thoreau (philosopher/naturalist) * Ralph Waldo Emerson (philosopher/essayist) * Climate change (large-scale shift in global weather) * Into the Wild, by Jon Krakauer (book) * René Descartes (philosopher)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“How do we become who we are in the world? We ask the world to teach us.” – Pam Houston

In this episode of Deviate, Pam discusses her interactions with writing students (2:30); living an non-traditional life (16:30); developing a notion of home (25:00); and how Pam’s life on the ranch affects her writing (34:00). The episode concludes with Rolf reading his short essay “Creating a new sense of home is part of the travel process.”

Pam Houston (@pam_houston) is an author and professor of English at the University of California, Davis. Her books include Cowboys Are My Weakness and Contents May Have Shifted, with her latest, Deep Creek, set for release in January 2019. For more information on Pam, check out her website at https://pamhouston.wordpress.com/

Notable Links: * Santa Fe Writers Workshop * “Some Kind of Calling,” by Pam Houston (essay) * “Pam Houston on (Finally) Finding True Love” (essay) * Desert Solitaire, by Edward Abbey (book) * Pilgrim at Tinker Creek, by Annie Dillard (book) * My Antonia, by Willa Cather (novel) * Alice Munro (author) * Terry Tempest Williams (author) * The Meadow, by James Galvan (book) * West Fork Complex (2013 wildfire)

This episode is brought you by the Santa Fe Workshops, which offer a variety of online and in-person classes and seminars in writing and photography, including "The Particular Beauty of Our Pared-Down Lives," an online writing workshop featuring author Pam Houston (March 30 - April 15, 2021).

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“In COVID times it's harder to get on a plane and go hiking in, say, Austria or Italy. So we said, 'why not do a 20-mile hike out of our back door?'” –Kristen Bush

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kiki sit in a Kansas town known as "Little Sweden" and talk about the joys and challenges of having walked 22 miles there the day before (3:00); the difference between urban, rural, and wilderness walking, how these experiences differ for men and women, and how the suffering of a long walk affects the experience (20:00); the subtle beauty, idiosyncrasies, and historical narratives contained a landscape like Kansas (28:00); Rolf and Kiki's resumed hike to Coronado Heights, and how meeting a dog named "Larry" the day before made their day more interesting (41:00); how walking enforces a more deliberate pace of travel, and how people see you differently when you're walking (53:00); how routine tasks like "using the toilet" or getting tired when you're walking allow you to get in touch with your body in a new way (1:00:30); how walking frees you from having a "consumer" relationship to the world, and how it makes you realize the miracles inherent in everything (1:08:30); and an "Easter Egg" bonus about walking and silence (1:16:15).

Kristen “Kiki” Bush is an actress, known for Paterno (2018), Liberal Arts (2012), and Synecdoche, New York (2008). Her TV credits include The Affair, The Good Wife, Elementary, and Law & Order: SVU. She has performed onstage at Manhattan Theatre Club, The Public, the Old Globe, Goodman Theatre, and Lincoln Center.

Notable Links: * Lindsborg (Kansas town known as "Little Sweden") * Ol Stuga (restaurant-bar in Lindsborg) * Grain elevator (building that stores grain) * Flâneur (urban mode of walking) * Wanderlust, by Rebecca Solnit (book about walking) * The Flaneur, by Edmund White (book about urban walking) * Of Walking in Ice, by Werner Herzog (book) * Christina's World (painting by Andrew Wyeth) * Larry Lapsley (African-American pioneer in Kansas) * Nicodemus (Kansas town established by African-Americans) * Coronado Heights (butte near Lindsborg) * Dala horse (traditional Swedish carved horse) * Hemslöjd (Swedish gift shop in Lindsborg) * Edward Abbey (American author and essayist) * Thomas Swick (travel writer) * Søren Kierkegaard (Danish philosopher) * Thích Nhất Hạnh (Vietnamese Thiền Buddhist monk and author)

This episode is brought you by the Santa Fe Workshops, which offer a variety of online and in-person classes and seminars in writing and photography, including “The Particular Beauty of Our Pared-Down Lives,” an online writing workshop featuring author Pam Houston (March 30 – April 15, 2021).

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“The boundaries of life are responsible for the beauty of life.” – Pico Iyer

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Pico discuss the people we become when we travel (4:00); what led Pico to travel (10:00); travel in the age of technology (20:00); finding the remarkable in the unremarkable (32:00); ping pong as a metaphor for life (40:00); the importance of impermanence (50:00); and the idea of being versus becoming (1:01:00).

Pico Iyer (@PicoIyer) is a novelist, essayist, and one of the most influential travel writers of his generation. He is known for such books as Video Night in Kathmandu and The Lady and the Monk, with many of his works receiving significant critical acclaim. He has also written for such publications as The New York Times, Time, and Harper’s. For more about Pico, check out http://picoiyerjourneys.com/

Notable Links: * A Beginner’s Guide to Japan, by Pico Iyer (book) * Autumn Light, by Pico Iyer (book) * Walt Whitman (poet / essayist) * John Muir (naturalist) * Herman Melville (writer) * Let’s Go (travel guide series) * Salman Rushdie (writer) * John Burroughs (naturalist / writer)

This episode is brought to you by the Santa Fe Workshops, which offer a variety of online and in-person classes and seminars in writing and photography, including “Across the World and Deep Within,” a travel webinar featuring author Pico Iyer (February 16-18, 2021).

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"I learned so quickly that children change everything about travel." --Bruce Kirkby

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Bruce discuss how Bruce got his travel-writing career started, and why he ended up traveling to a Tibetan Indian monastery with his young family (3:00); what it is like to travel overland with young kids in tow, from Canada to India, and how having a child on the autism spectrum affects the experience (12:30); what it was like to travel to Asia with a sixteen-person TV crew in tow (23:00); what it was like to life a low-tech offline life and teach English in a remote (yet changing) mountain region in Tibetan India (27:30); how Bruce and his family navigated the tension between tradition and modernity in Zanskar, and how being there for three months differs from a shorter visit (38:00).

Bruce Kirkby (@bruce_kirkby) is a Canadian adventurer, photographer, and writer. His newest book, discussed in this episode, is Blue Sky Kingdom: An Epic Family Journey to the Heart of the Himalaya. More about Bruce and his career can be found at: http://brucekirkby.com/.

Notable Links: * Mergui Archipelago (group of islands in southern Myanmar) * Family Ties (1980s TV show starring Michael J. Fox) * Kate Harris (Canadian travel writer) * Kate Harris on travel (Deviate podcast episode) * Zanskar (mountain region in Tibetan India) * Ladakh (union territory in India's Kashmir region) * Autism spectrum disorder (neurodevelopmental condition) * Big Crazy Family Adventure (Travel Channel show) * Long Way Round (TV travel doc featuring Ewan McGregor) * Monkey mind (Buddhist concept) * 14th Dalai Lama (Tibetan spiritual leader) * Rumspringa (Amish rite of passage) * Leh (capital city of Ladakh) * Being a better bad tourist (Deviate episode)

This episode is sponsored by the Santa Fe Workshops, which offer a variety of online and in-person classes and seminars in writing and photography, including "Three Simple Lines & The Color of Wind," a hybrid writing-photography webinar featuring Natalie Goldberg and Eddie Soloway (January 27-29, 2021); and "Across the World and Deep Within," a travel webinar featuring author Pico Iyer (February 16-18, 2021).

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Riding trains offered a great chance to chat with people we'd never cross paths with in our lives normally.” –Monisha Rajesh

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Monisha discuss how her interest in train-travel dates back to a series of journeys she took around India (2:00); her more recent experience of taking the Trans-Mongolian train across Russia and into Asia (14:00); what it was like to travel by train in North Korea, China, and Southeast Asia, and how they differ from European trains (28:00); what it was like to take trains across Canada and the United States, and which global trains Monisha likes best (45:00).

Monisha Rajesh (@monisha_rajesh) is a travel journalist, and the author of Around India in 80 Trains, and Around the World in 80 Trains. She currently lives in London with her husband and two daughters.

Notable Links: * Indrail Pass (Indian rail-pass for foreign nationals) * Saint Basil's Cathedral (church in Moscow's Red Square) * Eurail Pass (rail-pass covering 33 European countries) * Trans–Mongolian Railway (long-haul train route) * Circum-Baikal Railway (railway in Russia's Irkutsk region) * War and Peace (novel by Leo Tolstoy) * Game of Thrones (fantasy TV series) * Korean State Railway (train system in North Korea) * Southwest Chief (American Amtrak route) * German Baptist Brethren (Anabaptist group) * Qinghai–Tibet railway (Asian train route) * Skeena (Canadian passenger train service) * Mandovi Express (train route in India) * Flight shaming (environmental social movement) * Sunset Limited (American Amtrak route)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“The best experiences in life can be had for the price of showing up.” –Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kiki take a road-trip to Colorado (with Salvie the cat yowling in his pet-carrier) and discuss how Rolf's 2010 essay "5 Travel Lessons You Can Use at Home" can apply to home-life during a time of pandemic, including the notion that "Time = Wealth" (5:00); the importance of knowing how to "Be Where You Are" (8:30); the advantages of knowing when to "Slow Down" (20:00); the merit that comes in knowing how to "Keep it Simple" (25:00); and how life is more dynamic when you "Don’t Set Limits" (39:00).

Kristen "Kiki" Bush is an actress, known for Paterno (2018), Liberal Arts (2012), and Synecdoche, New York (2008). Her TV credits include The Affair, The Good Wife, Elementary, and Law & Order: SVU. She has performed onstage at Manhattan Theatre Club, The Public, the Old Globe, Goodman Theatre, and Lincoln Center.

For information on the Paris-based Travel Memoir classes Rolf is offering to Deviate listeners in 2021, inquire at deviate@rolfpotts.com, or via the online forms at the Paris Writing Workshops website.

Notable Links: * "5 Travel Lessons You Can Use at Home," by Rolf Potts (essay) * "A personal history of nostalgia" (Deviate episode) * Late Night with Seth Meyers (news satire talk show) * Rocky Mountain National Park (American wilderness area) * Geographers' A–Z (British street atlas) * Thomas Guide (Los Angeles street atlas) * Marie Kondo (Japanese organizing consultant and author) * No Baggage Challenge (Rolf's 2010 minimalist journey) * Hoarders (reality TV series) * Bumble (dating app) * Atomium (landmark building in Brussels) * Kanopolis State Park (hiking area in Kansas) * Marquette Pioneer Trail (hiking area in Kansas) * Lindsborg (Swedish-settler town in Kansas) * Sterling (small-college town in Kansas) * Coronado Heights (sandstone overlook in central Kansas) * Richard Rohr (American spiritual writer) * This Week in Flips (producer Justin Glow's YouTube channel)

This episode of Deviate alludes to Rolf's experiences with Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"A lot of people seek out spiritual travel-sites without any ties to a specific religion: When they're in Israel and they'll go to the Western Wall and feel so spiritual there; a month later they're in Thailand and they'll go to a Buddhist retreat. They just glom on for a minute and play pretend." – Ari Shaffir

Note: Rolf is giving away copies of books by Deviate guests (like Paul Theroux, Kate Harris, and Chris Guillebeau) for people who buy Tortuga backpacks online, or who buy copies of Vagabonding at local independent bookstores. Just email a receipt (and, if applicable, a photo of yourself at your local bookseller) to deviate@rolfpotts.com, and Rolf will share a list of available books and mail a free copy of your choosing to any USA address.

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ari discuss Rolf's pilgrimage across Israel 20 years ago and why he took it, and Ari's experiences there in a yeshiva and on a kibbutz as a young man (4:45); what it was like to walk in the agricultural north of Israel near the Sea of Galilee, and navigating the Jewish versus Arab cultural aspects of the country (15:00); longing as a part of travel, and what it was like to go to Israel as young man and see women in swimsuits after traveling in conservative Arab lands (29:00); the proliferation of Christian sites throughout Israel, getting picked up by Israeli girls while hitchhiking and going to Tel Aviv (36:00); the difference between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, and what it was like to visit sites like the Wailing Wall and the Church of the Holy Sepulchre (51:00); Rolf's experience of canvassing for a pub in Jerusalem as an act of self-abnegation, and fasting on the Mount of the Temptation near Jericho (1:13:00); and the tendency of some travelers to superficially embrace the local spiritual tradition in places like Israel and India and Thailand, and how travel is in itself a spiritual act (1:26:30).

Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comedian, writer, podcaster, and actor. He is the current host of the Skeptic Tank podcast. For more information on Ari, visit his website.

Notable Links: * Galilee (region in northern Israel) * Orthodox Judaism (traditionalist Jewish sect) * Yeshiva (Jewish educational institution) * 613 commandments (tradition from the Torah) * Messianic Judaism (sect that combines Christianity with Judaism) * Oslo Accords (1993 Israel/PLO agreement) * Yardenit (baptismal site on the Jordan River) * Saint Helena (influential 4th century Christian pilgrim) * Megiddo (ancient city site in Israel) * South Lebanon Army (Christian militia) * Jerusalem Syndrome (mental disorder) * Wailing Wall (site in the Old City of Jerusalem) * Al-Aqsa Mosque (Muslim site in Old City of Jerusalem) * Via Dolorosa (processional route in the Old City of Jerusalem) * Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) * Church of the Holy Sepulchre (Christian holy site) * Tom Rhodes (American comedian) * Zion Square (public square in Jerusalem) * Jericho (Palestinian city in the West Bank) * Mount of Temptation (Christian pilgrimage site) * Pai (town in northern Thailand) * Yetzer hara (in Hebrew, the inclination to do evil) * Karen people (ethnic group in Myanmar) * Rohingya people (ethnic group in Myanmar)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"Earnest, hard-won failure can teach you as much as anything." – Rolf Potts

Note: For information on the Paris-based Travel Memoir classes Rolf is offering to Deviate listeners in 2021, inquire at deviate@rolfpotts.com, or via the online forms at the Paris Writing Workshops website.

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jeremy discuss breaking into travel writing and learning through failure (4:00); what defines travel memoir, and how it's different from other kinds of travel writing (11:00); the role of research in travel writing, and the balance between personal expression and reportage (17:00); the travel writing industry, and what topics are covered in Rolf's Paris Writing Workshop (25:00); and how “flaneuring” in place like Paris can lend a new perspective on place (37:00).

Jeremy Bassetti (@jeremybassetti) is a writer, editor, educator, and host of the Travel Writing World Podcast. His website, travelwritingworld.com, features interviews with travel writers, book reviews, author profiles, and resources for travel writers and their readers. For more about Jeremy, check out jeremybassetti.com.

Notable Links: * + Storming the Beach, by Rolf Potts (essay) + Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) + The Last Whalers, by Doug Bock Clark (book) + Deviate interview with Doug Bock Clark (podcast) + Eat, Pray, Love, by Elizabeth Gilbert (book) + On the Plain of Snakes, by Paul Theroux (book) + Deviate interview with Paul Theroux (podcast) + Braver Than You Think, by Maggie Downs (book) + Deviate interview with Maggie Downs (podcast) + Writing Away, by Lavinia Spalding (book) + Deviate interview with Lavinia Spalding (podcast) + Drunk in China, by Derek Sandhaus (book) + Deviate interview with Derek Sandhaus (podcast) + The Painter of Modern Life, by Charles Baudelaire (essay collection) + Psychogeography (urban exploration strategy)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

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This episode of Deviate explores the benefits of minimalism (3:00); changing ones life philosophy and getting rid of bad habits (11:00); pragmatic approaches to personal finance and avoiding debt (20:00); living off the grid and life tips (29:00); and finding a life purpose (42:00).

Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"The perception that most Americans have about the original Thanksgiving is very much a Hallmark-card stereotype, where the native people and the colonists came together and broke bread and sang 'Kumbaya.' In truth, there was a great deal of trepidation on both sides." – Paula Peters Full video episode

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf presents an audio remix of American Pilgrim, the Thanksgiving Special he hosted for the Travel Channel in 2008. The episode begins with some contextual history of the Pilgrims' voyage from England, and a visit to chef Bryant Alden's kitchen in New Hampshire to discuss what food the Pilgrims ate (5:00); next, Rolf sails out of Plymouth Harbor with John Brewster, and learns about the sea conditions the Pilgrims faced coming over from England (12:00); at Mayflower Brewing Company in Plymouth, brewer Drew Brosseau talks about the importance of beer to the Pilgrims (17:00); elsewhere in Plymouth, Reverend Bill Fillebrown talks about how religious convictions shaped the lives of the Pilgrims (21:00); at Plimoth Plantation, indigenous descendants talk about relations between with Pilgrims and the native people in the area (27:30); in rural Connecticut, Rolf talks with farmer Courtland Kinnie about the Pilgrims' agricultural practices (30:40); finally, at Fort Hood in Texas, U.S. Army Major Chuck Assadourian talks about the Pilgrims' approach to defense and security (34:00).

As the holiday season gets underway, a reminder that Rolf's travel books make great Christmas stocking-stuffers. Vagabonding is a perennial gift favorite for travelers, though please also consider Rolf's travel-essay collection Marco Polo Didn't Go There, his travel-history book Souvenir, or his comic-book adaptation of an ancient Egyptian travel tale, The Misadventures of Wenamun. Fort Hood deleted scene

Notable Links: * Pilgrims (English settlers in North America) * Plimoth Plantation (living history museum) * Mayflower II (replica of 17th century ship) * Wampanoag (Native American people) * John Alden (Mayflower Pilgrim) * Squanto (Patuxet tribal liaison) * Pottage (thick stew) * Edward Winslow (Mayflower Pilgrim) * William Brewster (Mayflower Pilgrim) * Mayflower Compact (governing document) * Barque Eagle (U.S. Coast Guard training cutter) * Mayflower Brewing Company (craft-beer business) * Cooper (profession) * William Bradford (Governor of the Plymouth Colony) * Peregrine White (baby boy born on the Mayflower) * Puritans (English Protestant sect in the 17th century) * Pilgrim Progress (church-procession reenactment) * Patuxet (Wampanoag village affected by plague) * Wampum (traditional Native shell beads) * Richard Warren (Mayflower Pilgrim) * Fort Hood (U.S. Army post) * Isaac Allerton (Mayflower Pilgrim) * Myles Standish (military adviser for Plymouth Colony)

Wampanoag deleted scene

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Savoring is attending to the moment.” – Stephanie Rosenbloom

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Stephanie discuss solitude versus loneliness (3:00); the joy of eating alone (14:00); the art of being a flaneur and savoring experiences (22:00); the joy of going to museums alone (32:00); the relationship between anticipation, experience, and retrospection (43:00); and exercising your travel muscles as part of everyday life (54:00).

Stephanie Rosenbloom (@stephronyt) is a travel writer for The New York Times, where she has been a reporter for more than a decade, and the author of the book, Alone Time: Four Seasons, Four Cities, and the Pleasures of Solitude. For more about Stephanie, check out http://www.stephanierosenbloom.com.

Notable Links: * Abraham Maslow (psychologist) * AllTrails (website) * Bella DePaulo (Professor of Psychology) * Thích Nhất Hạnh (Vietnamese Buddhist monk) * Savoring: A New Model of Positive Experience, by Fred Bryant (book) * The Lonely Guy (Steve Martin movie) * Charles Baudelaire (poet) * Sandro Botticelli (painter) * The Birth of Venus (painting by Botticelli) * Elizabeth Dunn (psychologist) * On Photography, by Susan Sontag (collection of essays) * Marcel Duchamp (painter / sculptor) * LiveTrekker (app) * A Philosophy of Walking, by Fredric Gros (book)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Getting in touch with reality is literally the essence of spiritual life.” – Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf remixes his interview from the Far Out Podcast, by Julie-Roxane and Alasdair. They discuss "Time Wealth," and vagabonding as a philosophy for life (3:00); sifting through mediated information, versus getting local information on the road, and "reality" as the essence of spirituality (13:00); appreciation versus achievement, embracing the possibility of travel, and how you get smarter about travel the more you travel (24:00); seeking to have an "option-rich" life, the freedom that comes with not having preconceptions about where to go or what to do, and the joy of being surprised on the road (46:00); travel as a way to find out what you value and love in life (58:00); and the importance of slowing down, on the road and in life (1:03:00).

Julie-Roxane and Alasdair (Instagram: @thefaroutcouple) are travelers, entrepreneurs, guides, coaches, and co-hosts of the Far Out Podcast, where they chronicle their adventures in unconventional living. For more about Julie-Roxane and Alasdair, check out https://www.jrkrikorian.com and https://alasdairplambeck.com.

Notable Links: * John Muir (naturalist) * Stoicism (school of Hellenistic philosophy) * Platonic idealism (philosophical doctrine of ideas) * Rolf on the Tim Ferris Show (podcast episode) * The Snow Leopard, by Peter Matthiessen (book) * Henry David Thoreau (philosopher) * Leaves of Grass, by Walt Whitman (poetry collection) * Situationist International (French avant-garde movement) * Dérive (experimental urban behavior) * The best hostel ever, in Cairo (Deviate episode) * Into the Wild, by Jon Krakauer (book) * Falling Upward, by Richard Rohr (book) * Antonio Machado (Spanish poet) * Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, by Robert Pirsig (book) * Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf's summer writing classes)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“That sort of fearlessness, and the assumption that the world is a good place – I like holding onto that idea to this day.” – Pam Mandel

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Pam discuss the good that can come out of bad travel, and how Pam became a person who spent a lot of her teen years outside of the US (2:30); how Pam came to travel to Israel and work on a kibbutz as a teenager after high school (9:00); the magic of traveling while young, and Pam's experiences of hitchhiking across Europe (21:00); Onward travel to Egypt, Pakistan, and India, and how the assumptions of travel as a woman in certain countries are different from those of young men travelers (30:00); what it was like to write a book about experiences that happened 40 years ago (45:00); and how Pam now sees her coming-of-age travels as a complicated mix of good and bad experiences (51:30).

Pam Mandel (@nerdseyeview) is a travel writer and co-founder of The Statesider, a travel newsletter. Her book The Same River Twice, comes out this November. For more about Pam, check out her Nerd’s Eye View blog.

Notable Links: * Hippie trail (1960s and 1970s travel subculture) * Kibbutz (collective community) * Tony Wheeler (founder of Lonely Planet) * Squatting (practice of living in abandoned buildings) * Child marriage in Pakistan * Fields & Stations (magazine)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"Beliefs are contagious. The stories we tell take on their own logic and become real, in a way. As travelers in another culture part of your role is to try and understand what narrative ecosystem you're a part of." – Frank Bures

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Frank discuss "culture shock," and the origins of Frank's book (2:00); narrative ecosystems, "penis theft," and culture as a lens to view to the world (10:00); the form cultural panics and idiosyncrasies take in the West (23:00); and how to treat conditions that are both cultural and biological (30:00).

Frank Bures is a writer and the author of The Geography of Madness, which Newsweek called one of the best travel books of the decade. His writing has appeared in such publications as Harper’s, Lapham’s Quarterly, and the Best American Travel Writing. For more about Frank, check out www.frankbures.com.

Notable Links: * Penis theft (culture-bound syndrome) * Culture shock (cross-cultural anxiety) * Korean fan-death (culture-bound syndrome) * Traditional Chinese medicine (cultural pseudoscience) * Anorexia nervosa (eating disorder) * Bigorexia (body dysmorphic disorder) * 1967 Singapore genital panic, by Frank Bures (article) * Satanic Panic (moral panic in the 1980s and 1990s) * 2016 "creepy clown" scare (viral panic) * Chemtrails (conspiracy theory) * Premenstrual syndrome (emotional disorder)

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"Nostalgia isn't rational, and just like Warrant's 1990 song "Cherry Pie" reminds me of 1989 more than the recorded sound of my own voice from 1989, watching the movie Dazed and Confused for the first time literally made me long for a time in life that was less happy than the time I was living in when I saw it." — Rolf Potts

In this essay episode of Deviate Rolf talks about four recent factors in his life that have changed the ways he views nostalgia (4:00); how he may well could have been killed in a motorcycle wreck in Asia in 2019, and how the accident affected his way of seeing the world in the months after it happened (8:30); how the word "nostalgia" has conventionally been defined, in both the modern and premodern sense (18:45); Rolf's complicated memories of youthful interactions with movies like Star Wars, Dazed and Confused, and Before Sunrise (23:00); how Rolf met a traveler named Kristen Bush (aka "Kiki") in Kansas during the pandemic, and what factors made their connection unique (34:45); how Michel de Montaigne made sense of his near-fatal horse accident in the 16th century, versus how Rolf has come to make sense of his motorcycle accident in Asia (40:00); how Rolf has trouble intuiting his own past when he listens to his own voice on old cassette tapes (43:30); and how Rolf and Kiki have come to make sense of their past, present, and future together, and how this pandemic moment will one day feed its own nostalgia (48:30).

Kristen Bush is an actress, known for Paterno (2018), Liberal Arts (2012), and Synecdoche, New York (2008). Her TV credits include The Affair, The Good Wife, Elementary, and Law & Order: SVU. She has performed onstage at Manhattan Theatre Club, The Public, the Old Globe, Goodman Theatre, and Lincoln Center.

Notable Links: * "Turkish Knockout," by Rolf Potts (essay) * "Laos in the time of cholera," by Rolf Potts (essay) * Jonathan Yevin on no-baggage travel (Deviate episode) * Schadenfreude (experience of joy in the misfortunes of others) * Hyposmia (reduced ability to smell odors) * Marguerite Yourcenar (French novelist) * William Faulkner (American novelist) * Starship Enterprise (fictional spacecraft on Star Trek) * Woodstock (1969 music festival) * Grunge (rock music genre) * Bumble (dating app) * "The Dark Side of Travel Romance," by Rolf Potts (essay) * Ceylon lesser albatross (butterfly species) * Howard Cosell (American sportscaster) * Joan Didion (American writer) * John Muir (naturalist and author) * Josh Radnor (actor and filmmaker) * Embracing "slow travel" by trekking (Deviate episode)

Books, movies and TV shows mentioned: * Slaughterhouse-Five, by Kurt Vonnegut (novel) * Stranger Things (TV show) * Mad Men (TV show) * Epic of Gilgamesh (ancient Mesopotamian poem) * The Odyssey, by Homer (ancient Greek poem) * Star Wars trilogy (first three films of the sci-fi franchise) * The Wonder Years (TV show) * Dazed and Confused (movie) * Before trilogy (travel movies directed by Richard Linklater) * "The Lady with the Dog," by Anton Chekhov (short story) * The Essays, by Michel de Montaigne (book) * Monday Night Football (sports TV show) * Liberal Arts (movie) * Vagabonding, by Rolf Potts (book)

Music used in this episode: * "Cherry Pie," by Warrant * "Perpetuum Mobile," by Penguin Cafe Orchestra * "Where is My Mind," by Maxence Cyrin * "Breathe Me," by Sia * "Ndima Ndapedza," by Oliver Mtukudzi * "We Move Lightly," by Dustin O'Halloran * "At the Hop," by Sha Na Na * "Gnossiennes," by Erik Satie * ""Comptine d'un autre été," by Yann Tiersen * "All the Small Things," by Blink-182 * "Svefn-g-englar," by Sigur Rós

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“There are the actual facts of what was happening in popular culture in the 1980s — and then there was this tantalizing notion that music played backwards was going to seed our minds with evil. Which was scary, but also kind of cool to a certain kid-like way of thinking.” — Rolf Potts

In this rebroadcast episode of Deviate Rolf delves into the idea of "backward masking" in rock music, and how it came to influence notions of "Satanic Panic" in America over the course of the 1980s. Returning to the show for this musical deep-dive are Jedd Beaudoin (@JeddBeaudoin), who hosts the syndicated music show “Strange Currency,” and Michael Carmody (@Carmody68), a musician, record collector, and entrepreneur.

Together they discuss preacher Jacob Aranza's underground-classic 1983 anti-rock book Backward Masking Unmasked and its idiosyncratic take on popular music (4:00); the history of rock and roll and American culture that led up to Satanic Panic in the 1980s (31:10); how rock acts exploited the idea of Satanism to sell records just as preachers, politicians, and pop-journalists fixated on its supposed dangers to attract followers (42:10); and the legacy of Satanic Panic and the seeming lack of evil in today's popular music (1:05:45).

Rock and roll curiosities mentioned * Backmasking (audio technique) * Gene Simmons’ Tongue (Snopes article) * Blood in KISS Comic Book (Snopes article) * Paul is Dead (Beatles urban legend) * Aleister Crowley (English occultist) * Robert Johnson sold soul to the devil (blues myth) * Sign of the horns (rock hand gesture) * Eddie (zombie-like Iron Maiden mascot) * Dark Side of the Rainbow (movie/album mashup) * Acid rock (psychedelic rock subgenre) * Judas Priest suicide lawsuit * Ozzy Osbourne suicide lawsuit * Norwegian black metal (extreme metal genre) * Classic rock is not dead. Classic rock is undead (podcast episode) * Hammer of the Gods (controversial book about Led Zeppelin)

Movies and TV shows mentioned * CHIPs “Rock Devil Rock” episode (1982) * The Decline of Western Civilization (Penelope Spheeris documentary) * Decline of Western Civilization Part II: The Metal Years (documentary) * Rosemary’s Baby (horror movie) * The Exorcist (horror movie) * Trick or Treat (horror movie) * Manic Pixie Dream Girl (stock movie character) * Dream Deceivers (Judas Priest suicide trial documentary)

Other people, institutions, and events mentioned * Satanic Ritual Abuse (moral panic) * Day-care sex-abuse hysteria (moral panic) * James Vicary (subliminal advertising researcher) * James Watt (Interior secretary under Reagan) * Tipper Gore (senator’s wife and anti-rock crusader) * Captain & Tennille (soft-rock artists) * Bette Midler (singer-songwriter) * Church of Satan (religious organization) * Transcendental Meditation (spiritual practice) * Dada (avant-garde art movement) * 1 Samuel 15:3 (genocidal Bible verse) * West Memphis Three (wrongfully convicted ritual-murder suspects) * Shout at the Devil (Motley Crue album) * Columbine High School massacre (mass shooting) * The weird history of America’s national anthem (podcast episode) * Manson murders (cult killings)

Rock Devil Rock CHiPs TV clip

Quincy punk-rock episode clip

This episode was engineered by Torin Andersen of KMUW studios in Wichita. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Face the fear, and go for it.” – Cory Lee

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Cory discuss what challenges disabled travelers contend with, and how Cory got started as a traveler with spinal muscular atrophy (2:30); good destinations for travelers with mobility issues, and what challenges present themselves on the ground for travelers with disabilities (10:00); non-traditional activities like adventure travel or volunteering for people with disabilities, (20:00); and what it's been like for Cory to write and blog about disability travel, and how it became his full-time job (26:00). Then, Rolf is joined by listener Zachary York to discuss what it's like to travel with Neurofibromatosis type I (32:00).

Cory Lee (@coryleetweets) is the founder of Curb Free with Cory Lee, a travel blog sharing his experiences from a wheelchair user’s perspective. Cory is a 2-time Lowell Thomas Award winner for Best Travel Blog and was named the 2018 Person of the Year by New Mobility Magazine.

Notable Links: * Spinal muscular atrophy (neuromuscular disorder) * The Wheel Chair Singers (disabled gospel singing group) * Accessible Travel Club (Facebook Group) * Accessible Travel Online Resource Book (Travel Book) * Americans with Disabilities Act (civil rights law) * Volunteering for the Disabled in Northern Ireland, by Cory Lee (blog post) * Saku Travel (Estonia tour agency catering to disabled travelers) * Gatorland (Florida theme park) * Zachary York (traveler with Neurofibromatosis type I) * Mount Whitney (tallest mountain in the contiguous U.S.)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"Embrace your travel mistakes. You can't 'fail' at travel; you can only learn from travel." –Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, which excerpts a keynote talk from TravelCon, Rolf talks a bit about his background of growing up in Kansas and dreaming about travel, his earliest vagabonding travels, and his first forays into travel writing (3:30); then Rolf shares his "20 lessons learned from 20 years as a travel writer," (7:30).

Notable Links: * TravelCon (travel-media conference) * ​Don George​ (travel writer) * Rolf's ongoing travel writer interview series * Eva Holland (travel writer) * Bachata (Dominican dance style) * Merengue (Dominican dance style) * Omo Valley (tribal region in Ethiopia) * Mursi people (ethnic group in Ethiopia) * Ranong (town in Thailand) * Gringo Trails (2013 travel documentary film)

Podcasts and essays alluded to: * Nomadic Matt Kepnes on travel (Deviate episode) * Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) * A Trans-Siberian story (Deviate episode) * No Baggage Challenge (round-the-world video series) * The wrong town in Morocco (blog/video dispatch) * Up Cambodia without a phrasebook (travel essay) * Cowboys and Indians, Thai-style (travel essay) * Going Native in the Australian Outback (travel essay) * A Vagabond Finds a Home (essay) * Toura Incognita (Conde Nast Traveler article)

20 lessons learned from 20 years as a travel writer 1) Relationships count more than platforms

2) Distinctive content counts more than self-promotion

3) If in doubt, ask for help

4) If in doubt say yes

5) There is always more to learn

6) Don’t postpone things

7) Be an expat at some point in your travel career

8) Take it slow

9) It's OK to make mistakes

10) Don’t set limits

11) Walk until your day becomes interesting

12) Meet people

13) Report back on the human world

14) Try something different

15) Actively learn new skills

16) Dare to be lonely, lost, and bored

17) Remember the ethical dynamic of travel

18) Develop a notion of home

19) Success is a matter of doing it long enough

20) Make the lessons last a lifetime

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Sometimes we do things for ourselves in the name of adventure, without thinking about how this affects other people.” – Suzanne Roberts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Suzanne discuss what it means to be a bad traveler, and the ethical quandaries that come with being a tourist (3:00); examples from Suzanne's book about her interacting from a position of privilege with trekking guides during a mudslide in Peru, giving a Power Bar to a leper in India, or wanting to help underaged prostitutes in Nicaragua (12:00); burning-ghat tourism in Varanasi, and how places where death is more public make one confront the notion of death and "aliveness" in a more realistic way (23:00); sex, dating and relationships abroad (34:00); and the challenge of writing about sensitive cross-cultural topics, and the utility of "sensitivity readers" versus good on-the-ground reporting in travel writing (55:00).

Suzanne Roberts (@SuzanneRoberts) is a travel writer, memoirist, and poet. Her books include the 2012 National Outdoor Book Award-winning Almost Somewhere, her new travel memoir Bad Tourist, and four collections of poetry. For more about Suzanne, check out https://www.suzanneroberts.net/

Notable Links: * A Small Place, by Jamaica Kincaid (book-length essay) * Postcolonialism (academic critical theory) * White savior complex (trope applied to some travelers) * Aguas Calientes (place in Peru) * Ghats in Varanasi (riverfront area along the Ganges) * Memento mori (artistic or symbolic reminder of death) * Thomas Merton (Christian writer / theologian) * Attar of Nishapur (Sufi poet) * Sholeh Wolpé (Iranian-American poet) * Favela (type of slum in Brazil) * Poverty porn (media stereotype) * Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) * AWP Conference (American literary event)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“There is this arrogant assumption that the things we don’t know or understand must be bad, because if they were good, we would already know about them or understand them.” –Derek Sandhaus

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Derek discuss the culture and traditions of baijiu liquor in China (4:00); Derek’s introduction to China and baijiu, and how Sichuan, more than any other province, is known for making baijiu (15:00); the history of baijiu, its significance to Chinese culture, and the rules that surround its consumption at meals (22:00); how alcohol influenced Chinese culture and agriculture over the years, and how foreigners have interacted with baijiu (31:00); the challenge in introducing baijiu to the American market, how it has as many variations as different as vodka and tequila, and how to find and enjoy baijiu in the United States (36:30).

Derek Sandhaus (@dsandhaus) is a writer, traveler, and author of several books on Chinese history and culture, including Baijiu: The Essential Guide to Chinese Spirits and Drunk in China. He is a cofounder of Ming River Sichuan Baijiu and currently serves as the brand’s communications director. He is also the editor of DrinkBaijiu.com.

Notable Links: * Baijiu (Chinese liquor) * William of Rubruck (missionary / explorer) * Marco Polo (explorer) * Chengdu (capital of Sichuan province in China) * Zhou Enlai (first Premier of the People's Republic of China) * Chiang Kai-shek (Chinese politician) * Seven Sages of the Bamboo Grove (Chinese scholars) * Eight Immortals of the Wine Cup (Chinese scholars) * Jiahu (Neolithic settlement in China) * Henry David Theroux (author) * Ernest Hemingway (author) * Taoism (philosophy) * Richard Nixon (American president) * Ming River (baijiu brand available in the U.S.)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"​So many hate-filled​ things—whether on social media​ or just people talking—are based on stereotypes that are not accurate​. Too many people ​simply ​don't ​interact with people who are different from ​them." —Joe Rodriguez

In this episode of Deviate, childhood friends Rolf, Kaye, Tony, and Joe discuss the racially specific nicknames people gave each other in high school back in the 1980s (7:40); how exactly their racial and socioeconomic situations influenced the way they grew up as young people (14:30); why it's important to respect specific aspects of other people's lives, even if you can't entirely relate to them, and how individual people don't necessarily represent everyone in a given group (37:00); what it feels like to be judged by strangers on the basis of your race, especially when you come from a minority group (51:30); how their race and the location of their neighborhoods affected their extracurricular lives as teenagers, and how diversity exists even within individual racial groups (1:06:00); how dating and marrying across racial lines can give you a deepened perspective on racial difference ​(1​:18:00); and how the personal experience of racial diversity is so much richer, more nuanced, and intertwined with "social capital" than the way it's discussed in the click-bait atmosphere of social media (1:30:00).

Kaye Monk-Morgan is an Assistant Vice President for Academic Affairs at Wichita State University. Tony Johnson works with troubled youth as an intervention specialist with the Wichita Public Schools. A former newspaper journalist, Joe Rodriguez works as the Director of Development at Wichita's Holy Savior Catholic Church and Academy.

Notable Links: * Wichita North High School * What it’s like to be a black police officer in America (Deviate episode) * What it’s like to be a Latino police officer in America (Deviate episode) * The power of small choices across decades (Deviate episode) * On Political Correctness, by William Deresiewicz (essay) * Wichita State Shockers men's basketball (sports program) * Nico Hernandez (Olympic boxer from Wichita) * Mike George (20th century professional wrestler) * Lawrence Welk (20th century TV bandleader) * Code-switching (linguistic "language alternation") * Colin Kaepernick (American athlete and activist) * Kansas Bureau of Investigation (criminal justice agency) * Barry Sanders (former NFL running back from Wichita) * James Jabara (Korean War jet ace from Wichita) * Việt Kiều (Vietnamese diaspora term) * Mullet (1980s haircut) * Tiger Woods (American professional golfer) * Grinnell (academically prestigious college in Iowa) * Arapaho (Native American tribe) * Art Deco (arts and architecture design style)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"The more we try to seize happiness, the more it slips from our grasp. Happiness is a by-product, never an objective. It's an unexpected windfall from a life lived well." --Eric Weiner

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Eric discuss why practicing (rather than just studying) philosophy is important (2:00); which philosophies make the most sense during pandemic, and Nietzsche's notion of "Eternal Recurrence" (10:00); aging versus staying young, and the similarities between Greek and Buddhist philosophy (21:00); how travel underpins the philosophical journey, and how train travel promotes deep thinking (31:00); how walking enables thinking and reflection, and the value or art and music (42:00); and loving life while also coming to terms with death (53:00).

Eric Weiner (@Eric_Weiner) is an award-winning journalist, bestselling author, and speaker. His books include The Geography of Bliss and The Geography of Genius, as well as the spiritual memoir Man Seeks God and, his latest title, The Socrates Express. Eric is a former foreign correspondent for NPR, and reporter for The New York Times. For more about Eric, check out https://ericweinerbooks.com/

Notable Links: * Stoicism (school of philosophy) * Friedrich Nietzsche (philosopher) * Albert Camus (philosopher) * Groundhog Day (film) * Thích Nhất Hạnh (Buddhist monk) * Epicurus (philosopher) * Simone de Beauvoir (writer / philosopher) * Falling Upward, by Richard Rohr (book) * Henry David Thoreau (essayist / philosopher) * Arthur Schopenhauer (philosopher) * Adagio for Strings (string orchestra arrangement) * Michel de Montaigne (philosopher) * Eric Hoffer (philosopher) * Søren Kierkegaard (philosopher) * Bhagavad Gita (Hindu scripture) * Socrates (philosopher) * Plato (philosopher)

This episode is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"There are so many ways travel can change your life, in ways you could never imagine before you leave home." –Daniel Neely

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf reads his essay, Backpackers’ Ball at the Sultan Hotel (7:30) before he and Dan reflect on the international cast of characters they met at at the Sultan Hotel in Cairo, and how workaday activities can make the city more interesting than tourist attractions (36:30); the friendships you make in hostels and how they end up shaping your life (44:45); how smartphones may have changed the vibe of some hostels, and how interacting with strangers at hostels can change your life (60:00).

A native of Arizona, Daniel Neely served as Peace Corps volunteer in Honduras in the early 2000s. He now works as a Senior Advisor in Emergency Preparedness at the Wellington (New Zealand) Region Emergency Management Office. He previously appeared on Deviate episode 42, "How to survive a natural disaster."

Notable Links: * Backpackers’ Ball at the Sultan Hotel, by Rolf Potts (essay) * Marco Polo Didn’t Go There, by Rolf Potts (book) * Flaubert in Egypt: A Sensibility on Tour (collection of letters) * Il signor Bruschino (Rossini operatic farce) * Kuchuk Hanem (19th century Egyptian belly dancer) * Johnnie Wadie Red Tabel (Egyptian spirit) * Herodotus (ancient Greek historian) * Hello America (2000 Egyptian movie) * Saqqara (ancient burial ground in Egypt) * Pyramid of Djoser (archaeological site in the Saqqara necropolis) * Giza Necropolis (Egyptian pyramid complex) * Djellaba (Arab robe) * Keffiyeh (traditional Arabian headdress) * Hijab (Muslim veil) * “Kicking & Screaming” might be the best movie ever (Deviate episode) * Kushari (Egyptian street food) * Dahab (backpacker town in the Egyptian Sinai)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“My ambition was not financial, but a creative ambition toward fulfillment and satisfaction -- and to be a better human toward those whom I loved.” – Brian Koppelman

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Brian discuss podcast fandom, and how listening to podcasts is intimate in a way other media is not (2:00); self-improvement and ambition versus fulfillment, and the cultural reach of what Brian has created (11:00); the influence of music, and how a single album or artwork affects you at certain ages or times of your life (22:00); and masculine emotions as they are expressed in music, and writing to music informs your creativity (41:00).

Brian Koppleman (@briankoppelman) is a screenwriter and co-creator / showrunner of the television show Billions. His screenwriting credits include Rounders and Ocean’s Thirteen. He is also the host of The Moment podcast.

Notable Links: * Grantland (sports and culture website) * Bill Simmons (podcaster and sports writer) * Wesley Morris on podcast fame (Deviate episode) * Killing Yourself to Live, by Chuck Klosterman (book) * This Is What They Want (Jimmy Connors documentary) * "I Contain Multitudes" (2020 Bob Dylan song) * The Four Hour Workweek, by Tim Ferriss (book) * Rolf Potts on Travel Tactics (Tim Ferriss podcast episode) * Seth Godin (business executive) * Scriptnotes (podcast) * Ryan Lochte (Olympic swimmer) * Neil Peart (musician) * Ghost Rider: Travels on the Healing Road, by Neil Peart (book) * Tracy Chapman (singer-songwriter) * Exile in Guyville (Liz Phair album) * Bright Lights, Big City, by Jay McInerney (novel) * The Number of the Beast (Iron Maiden album) * Judas Priest (music artist) * Stryper (American Christian metal band) * Spoon River Anthology, by Edger Lee Masters

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"Realizing that you will die greatly clarifies your vision of life, and stimulates opportunities for making the vision real.” –Ed Buryn

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ed discuss the impetus behind Ed's first travels to Europe by van in the 1960s, and his early forays into self-printed and self-promoted books about the experience (3:00); how travel to Europe was different 50 years ago, and the joy and freedom that comes with not knowing what happens next (14:30); Ed's philosophies and influences, including living in "the now" (21:00); how travel allows you to reinvent yourself, and how meeting people is the best gift of travel (36:00); and Ed's ambitions for poetry and travel, and his advice to travelers in today’s world (44:30). Ed Buryn is an author and photographer who was one of the first to popularize the term “vagabonding” through the publication of his books Vagabonding In Europe and North America and Vagabonding in America. For more about Ed, check out https://edburyn.com.

Notable Links: * Kevin Kelly (writer, editor, and publisher) * Tony Wheeler (founder of Lonely Planet travel guides) * Bill Dalton (founder of Moon travel guides) * Charles Plymell on the Beat Generation (Deviate episode) * The Drifters, by James Michener (book) * Zorba the Greek, by Nikos Kazantzakis (book) * Henry Miller (author) * CouchSurfing ((homestay and social networking service) * Richard Halliburton (traveler and author) * Tarot (playing cards used for divination) * Nevada City (community in northern California)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks has employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“I met people who would say, ‘I wish I had more time to travel like you do.’ They had more money than time, and I had more time than money. In terms of traveling it’s much better to have more time than more money. …If you have a chance to travel, just do it. You won’t regret it.” – Kevin Kelly

Kevin Kelly (@kevin2kelly) is a polymath in the truest sense of the word. Aside from being a co-founder of Wired magazine, he is also co-founder of the Rosetta Project, which is aiming to build an archive of all documented human languages, and he serves on the board of the Long Now Foundation. He is a photographer, writer, and futurist (he was “futurist adviser” on the 2002 Steven Spielberg movie, Minority Report), with much of his work centering on Asian and digital culture.

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kevin discuss the inspiration for his Asia travel in the 1970s (3:00); getting around and dealing with language barriers (15:00); the people he encountered while traveling in Asia, and the life-expanding nature of his journey (32:00); what he packed (47:00); modernity and technology in Asia, and managing his photography during travel (1:07:00); and self-actualization, discovering oneself through travel, and what the future holds in Asia.

For more on Kevin, check out http://kk.org/

Notable Links: * Asia Grace, by Kevin Kelly (photography book) * “Shoulda Been Dead” (This American Life episode on Kevin’s Jerusalem conversion experience) * Out of Control, by Kevin Kelly (book) * Kevin Kelly’s interview with Tim Ferriss (podcast episode) * “1000 True Fans” by Kevin Kelly (essay) * Aerogram (pre-stamped airmail envelope) * Poste restante (postal pick-up service for travelers) * Maureen Wheeler (publisher) * Tony Wheeler (publisher) * Rick Steves (travel writer and publisher) * Hilary Bradt (guidebook publisher) * Bill Dalton (guidebook publisher) * Lonely Planet (travel guidebook) * Moon Guide (travel guidebook) * Rough Guides (travel guidebook) * National Geographic (magazine) * Video Night in Kathmandu, by Pico Iyer (book) * Leaves of Grass, by Walt Whitman (book) * Hippie Trail (travel route) * “Remembering the Hippie Trail” by Rolf Potts (essay) * Recomendo (weekly recommendation newsletter)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“The opening line of your work should hold within it the germ of your entire idea. Attention spans are growing ever shorter. Grab your reader while you can.” – Bettina Gilois

Bettina Gilois (1961-2020) was an award-winning screenwriter and author who worked in Hollywood for more than thirty years. Her screen credits included McFarland, USA and Glory Road.

In this rebroadcast episode of Deviate (which originally aired in July of 2019), Bettina and Rolf discuss writing about real people (4:00); Bettina’s career path and the importance of perseverance (24:00); the importance of simplicity in storytelling (41:00); why certain stories are worth telling (56:00); and the craft of writing (1:15:00).

Notable Links: * Bettina’s Chapman University page (includes links to craft-advice essays) * Thomas Kinkaid (painter) * Billion Dollar Painter, by Bettina Gilois (book) * Andy Warhol (artist) * Talking Heads (band) * Ari Emanuel (talent agent) * Twister (film) * Robert Durst (real estate heir) * Rick Hall (record producer)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"In America aging is often seen as an insult rather than an inevitable human process. We don't celebrate getting older; we 'fight' age by pretending to be young." --Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate Rolf and his parents, Alice and George Potts, talk about how surviving the COVID-19 pandemic has changed their relationship, and how it gave them a pretext to go through a "death checklist" together (3:00); how one's grandparents and parents live on in one's memories and one's conversations, the life-values they passed on, and what it felt like when those loved ones declined and died (14:00); how, over the years, elderly people and philosophers have come to terms with notions of decline and death (31:00); and personal insights about what it's like to have grown older after having lived a long life (44:00).

George and Alice Potts are retired schoolteachers based in Kansas. George taught science at various Wichita high schools, as well as at Friends University, where he pioneered graduate-level programs in Zoo Science and Environmental Studies. He also helped facilitate the Outdoor Wildlife Learning Sites (OWLS) program for the Kansas Department of Wildlife and Parks. Alice taught second graders in the Wichita public schools for more than 30 years. In 1994 her classes succeed in promoting legislation to declare the barred tiger salamander the Kansas State Amphibian.

Notable Links: * What to Do When a Loved One Dies (AARP death checklist) * How we die in America (Deviate episode) * The therapeutic uses of reading scripture (Deviate episode) * On losing one’s parents to COVID-19 (Deviate episode) * 1985 World Series (baseball championship) * Joe Louis (20th century boxing champion) * John Prine (singer-songwriter) * Alzheimer's disease (chronic neurodegenerative disease) * You Are My Sunshine (folk song) * Will You Miss Me When I'm Gone (folk song) * Ecclesiastes (book in the Old Testament of the Bible) * Epistle of James (book in the New Testament of the Bible) * Crowfoot (19th century Siksika First Nation chief) * Ted Kaczynski (the Unabomber) * Epicurus (ancient Greek philosopher) * Varanasi (Hindu holy city in India) * Lamentations 3:22-23 (Old Testament Bible verse)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“One of the miracles of travel writing is to constantly be reminded of how much we don’t know.” – Doug Bock Clark

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Doug discuss how travel writing is defined, and what purposes it serves in the twenty-first century (3:30), the boundaries of travel writing, the nuanced task of trying to humanize people in a travel story, and the future of the form (19:00). Then, Rolf reads his essay, "Why Travel Writing Matters" from the Fall 2017 issue of The Chattahoochee Review (29:00).

Doug Bock Clark (@DougBockClark) is a GQ correspondent and a contributor for the website of The New Yorker. His first book, The Last Whalers, was a New York Times Notable Book for 2019. He also produced the feature documentary Assassins, which premiered at Sundance in January 2020 and was inspired by one of his investigations.

Notable Links: * The Missionary and the Uncontacted Tribe, by Doug Bock Clark (article) * Down Myanmar’s Sacred Irrawaddy River, by Doug Bock Clark (article) * Behind the Beautiful Forevers, by Katherine Boo (book) * Peter Hessler (writer) * Storming “The Beach”, by Rolf Potts (essay) * Making sense of The Beach, 20 years later (podcast episode) * Marco Polo Didn’t Go There, by Rolf Potts (book) * William of Rubruck (explorer) * Siberut (island in Indonesia) * Andaman Islands (archipelago in the Bay of Bengal) * Zhang Qian (2nd century BC Chinese envoy) * The Histories, by Herodotus (ancient travel narrative) * Orhan Pamuk (Turkish author) * Why Travel Writing Matters, by Rolf Potts (essay)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Santa Fe Writing Workshop, the leading experiential photographic workshop and writers lab in the US. Offering world-renowned professional photographers and Pulitzer Prize winning writers both in the U.S. and abroad, its reputation has been built upon a foundation of creativity and community for individuals of all levels. Prioritizing inspiration and openness to new ideas as much as it does craft, the Santa Fe Writing Workshop establishes itself as an enclave of creativity and education.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"The Lamalerans hunt in a way that is almost exactly the same as the way people hunted during Moby Dick's time. Going on one of these hunts is analogous to what Ishmael or Queequeg was doing." –Doug Bock Clark

In this episode of Deviate Rolf and Doug talk about how he came to write about the Lamalerans, and how he aimed to evoke a sense for what it's like to live in the isolated fishing communities of that part of the world (2:30); how and why the Lamalerans came to embrace a traditional hunting and barter lifestyle, and what indigenous groups are trying to live similar lifestyles (7:30); unique social rituals, spiritual systems, and ways of speaking carried out by Lamalerans (18:30); what aspects of modernity had been embraced by the tribespeople, and why, when Doug went to that part of the world (25:00); Doug's personal experience of living on the island with the Lamalerans, and how he chose to tell the story of the islanders​ (33:00); how the influence of technology and the outside world, including tourism, is affecting the Lamalerans (41:00); and what encounters with cultures like this can teach us about who we are, who we were, and who we will be (53:00).

Doug Bock Clark (@DougBockClark) is a GQ correspondent and a contributor for the website of The New Yorker. His first book, The Last Whalers, was a New York Times Notable Book for 2019. He also produced the feature documentary Assassins, which premiered at Sundance in January 2020 and was inspired by one of his investigations.

Notable Links: * Aboriginal whaling (traditional hunting method) * Lembata (island in Indonesia) * John Allen Chau (American missionary killed on North Sentinel Island) * "The American Missionary and the Uncontacted Tribe" (article) * Lashed-lug boat (ancient boat-building technique) * Melanesians (indigenous peoples in the South Pacific) * Moby-Dick, by Herman Melville (novel) * 19th century American whaling (industry) * Ishmael and Queequeg (Moby-Dick characters) * Amish (traditionalist Christian sect) * Rumspringa (Amish rite of passage) * Bahasa Indonesian (language) * Lamaholot (language) * Siberut (largest the Mentawai Islands, near Sumatra) * Human Planet (TV documentary series)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks has employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"One reason why Gatsby is called a 'Great American Novel' is that it illuminates a conversation we haven't stopped having in this country. We keep pretending to be people we're not." –Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate Rolf and his old high school friends reflect on the role of Nick Carraway as the narrator of The Great Gatsby, how he deals with race and privilege, and whether or not his perspective is reliable (7:00); Fitzgerald's use of language and juxtaposition in depicting characters and their relationships (22:00); the characters' lack of moral grounding amid the opulence and wealth, and how it drives the story (28:00); how the youth and the age of the characters in Gatsby resonates differently depending your age when you read it (38:30); and how big questions like love, money, and life are addressed in the novel (49:00). [Easter Egg "Lightning Round" kicks in at 51:45.]

Kaye Monk-Morgan is an Assistant Vice President for Academic Affairs at Wichita State University, where she facilitates leadership and professional development opportunities for low-income and first-generation students. Erin Perry O'Donnell operates Dovetail Community Workshop, which teaches woodworking classes in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Tom Davis teaches English at Sumner Academy of Arts & Science in Kansas City, Kansas.

Notable Links: * The Great Gatsby, by F. Scott Fitzgerald (novel) * Wichita North High (public school) * Black buck (racial slur) * Nouveau riche (class-specific term) * Unreliable narrator (storytelling point-of-view) * Bromance (close male relationship) * Wall Street Crash of 1929 (stock market crash) * 1918 Spanish flu pandemic (influenza outbreak) * Poor Richard's Almanack, by Benjamin Franklin (book) * Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass (memoir) * Immanuel Kant (German philosopher) * Baby boomers (demographic cohort) * "The Ivy Crown," by William Carlos Williams (poem) * Playboy Mansion (former home of Hugh Hefner) * Kato Kaelin (pop-culture personality) * Manic Pixie Dream Girl (stock character in films)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“You can’t ever really know what a museum will offer you until you get there.” – Kendra Green

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kendra discuss their own earliest fascination with museums (2:40); the appeal and particularities of Icelandic museums (10:00); museums as a form of national identity (24:00); the relationship of collecting to the creation of museums (35:00); and museums as a way of engaging with one’s imagination (46:00).

Kendra Greene is a writer, artist, and author of The Museum of Whales You Will Never See. She has worked at various museums, including the Museum of Contemporary Photography, and the Chicago History Museum. Karen is currently Associate Editor of prose at the Southwest Review and a Fellow at Harvard University's Library Innovation Lab. For more about Kendra, check out http://akendragreene.com.

Notable Links: * Chicago Museum of Science and Industry (museum) * Field Museum of Natural History (Chicago museum) * La Brea Tar Pits (Los Angeles attraction) * Icelandic Phallological Museum (penis museum) * Museum of Jurassic Technology (Los Angeles museum) * Cabinets of curiosities (pre-museum collections) * Jack London (author) * John Steinbeck (author) * Nábrók (Icelandic necropants) * Egil’s Saga (Icelandic saga) * The Tourist, by Dean MacCannell (book) * Elgin Marbles (Greek sculptures) * Petra’s Stone Collection (museum) * Museum of Sorcery and Witchcraft (museum)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. Airtreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The Airtreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

This episode of Deviate is also brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, and many other industry outlets.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"He gave us five rules for jumping freight trains, and we broke every one of those rules once the adventure began." --Brian Hartenstein

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and his longtime friend Brian recall their old ambition to jump freight trains across the Pacific Northwest, and what factors inspired it (4:00); what kinds of research and preparation they did to make the train-jumping experience possible (16:30); the early hours of their attempt to reach Canada by catching a boxcar from the Vancouver, Washington rail yard, and the dangers of challenges that awaited them (28:30); their unanticipated detour through the Columbia Gorge to Pasco, and their experience of getting detained by railroad police in Spokane (35:00); making the decision to escape Spokane by retracing their route, and getting stuck in a "hobo jungle" in the town of Wishram (56:30); making sense of the adventure afterwards, and how train-jumping has (and has not) changed in the social-media age (1:15:30).

Brian Hartenstein is an English-teacher-at-large, and the author of Me Gook, a Korean memoir.

Notable links: * Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) * Jack Kerouac (American novelist) * "Travel," by Edna St. Vincent Millay (poem) * The Autobiography of a Super-Tramp, W. H. Davies (1908 memoir) * Chris McCandless (traveler, subject of Into the Wild) * Hero's journey (narrative template) * Dr. Giggles (1992 horror movie Rolf appeared in as an extra) * Emperor of the North Pole (1973 movie) * Wishram, Washington (freight-depot town) * Invisible Man, by Ralph Ellison (1952 novel) * Rainbow Family (counterculture group)

Freight-jumping links: * Freight jumping (train-travel method) * Burlington Northern (railroad company) * Freight Train Riders of America (criminal gang) * Boxcar Killer (serial killer, a.k.a. Robert Joseph Silveria Jr.) * Boxcar (type of freight car) * Covered hopper (type of freight car) * Flatcar (type of freight car) * Gondola (type of freight car) * Stobe the Hobo (YouTube playlist) * Remembering Stobe the Hobo (Facebook group)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. 

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Travel is often one part geography and nine parts imagination.” --Kate Harris

In this episode of Deviate Rolf and Kate discuss Kate’s early fixation with exploration and interest in Mars (3:00); science as a catalyst for exploration (10:30); the universality of the human experience and her trip through Asia (21:00); the concept of borders (32:00); nostalgia and the transformational effect of travel (43:00); the role of home in relation to travel (52:00); and letting adventure into your life (1:02:00).

Kate Harris (@kateonmars) is an adventure writer, named by Condé Nast Traveler as one of the "world’s most adventurous women.” Her work has appeared in Outside, The Walrus, and Georgia Review. Her book, Lands of Lost Borders, is a national bestseller For more about Kate, check out www.kateharris.ca

Notable Links: * Rolf's Q&A with Kate Harris (book foreword) * Silk Road (network of trade routes) * Mars Desert Research Station (Mars simulation in Utah) * Morehead-Cain Scholarship (UNC program) * Ernest Shackleton (explorer) * Fridtjof Nansen (explorer) * Annie Dillard (American author) * Wind, Sand and Stars, by Antoine de Saint-Exupery (book) * Henry David Thoreau (writer) * My Journey to Lhasa, by Alexandra David-Neel (book) * Aksai Chin (region administered by China) * Marco Polo (historical figure) * Tomas Tranströmer (poet) * Atlin (community in British Columbia)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks has employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"I had a great day in Cambodia, and I was like, 'Oh my god I'm so happy right now.' I had no idea what I was doing, or what I would discover, and I just trusted that I would be OK." --Andrew McCarthy

In this episode of Deviate Rolf and Andrew discuss his relationship with interviews and the origin of the Brat Pack (3:30); fear and journaling in the time of pandemic, and treasured possessions (12:30); regrets, and artistic truth (23:00); writing as a way of thinking, and what Andrew values in his friends (29:00); and happiness, quarantine-reading, The Great Gatsby, and coming to terms with ones youthful success (38:00).

Andrew McCarthy (@AndrewTMcCarthy), who rose to fame as a teen actor during the John Hughes 80’s era, is a television director and writer of such books as The Long Way Home and Just Fly Away.

Notable Links: * Proust Questionnaire (set of interview questions) * Confession album (19th century autograph book) * Pretty in Pink (1986 film) * St. Elmo’s Fire (1985 film) * Camino de Santiago (pilgrimage route) * Weekend at Bernie’s (1989 film) * "Hollywood’s Brat Pack," by David Blum (article) * Brat Pack (group of young actors in the 1980s) * Mannequin (1987 film) * Emilio Estevez (actor) * George Carlin on "stuff" (comedy routine) * Off the Road, by Jack Hitt (travel book) * Joan Didion (American author) * The Art of Memoir, by Mary Karr (book) * The Big Lebowski (1998 film) * Stoner, by John Williams (book) * The Great Gatsby, by F. Scott Fitzgerald (book)

This episode is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

This episode is also brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories made with the traveler in mind.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"The dualities of the 'creative person' and the 'business person' don't need to exist any more, because one person can do all of it." --Sachit Gupta

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Sachit discuss creativity versus business success, and the currency of social media (2:30); the diminishing returns of listening to advice, and the importance of action (16:00); interview and preparation techniques, and how how "bringing value" can apply to spiritual ideas as readily as business ideas (24:00); being creative in business, and how creative people are now expected to do their own marketing and promotion (36:00); thinking innovatively, and breaking with habit and tradition (44:00); how success can be compromised in the clickbait era, and creativity in the age of social media (59:00).

Sachit Gupta (@sachitgupta) is the founder of Platforms Media, where he helps creators build, grow, and scale their online platforms to amplify their message and connect with brands. He is also the host of the Conscious Creators Show.

Notable Links: * Tim Ferriss (entrepreneur / podcaster) * Entourage (television show) * The Mixed Reviews (podcast) * Kanye West (rapper) * Rick Rubin (record producer) * Craig Ferguson (television host) * Scrivener (application) * Punk icon Ian MacKaye (Deviate episode) * Why dinosaurs matter (Deviate episode) * Fallibility, reflexivity, and the human uncertainty principle (article) * Range, by David Epstein (book) * Powerhouse, by James Andrew Miller (book) * Understanding Media, by Marshall McLuhan (book) * Rolf's nephew Luke's TikTok (social media feed)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"Even the briefest trip into a tunnel or a cave can feel like an escape into a parallel reality, the way characters in children's books vanish through portals into secret worlds." --Will Hunt

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Will talk about our imaginative relationship with underground places, and how it often starts in childhood (4:30); the concept of "urban exploration" in the industrial spaces underneath cities, and Will's fascination with a NYC graffiti artist named REVS (11:00); the catacombs of Paris, how easy it is to get lost underground, and how hard it is to map underground passages (26:15); going underground as a form of time travel, the microbes that live underground, and the relics that can be found underground (40:00); the spiritual aspect of spending time underground in the dark zone of a cave (51:00); and how and why to get started exploring underground (59:00).

Will Hunt’s (@willhunt__) writing, photography, and audio storytelling have appeared in The Economist, the Paris Review Daily, The Atavist, The Guardian, Discover, Audible Originals, and Outside, among other places. He is currently a visiting scholar at the NYU Institute for Public Knowledge. Underground is his first book. More about Will at: https://www.willhunt.net/

Notable Links: * Salt Cathedral of Zipaquirá (underground church in Colombia) * Mount of the Temptation (hill in the Judean Desert) * Panoptikum (labyrinth in Budapest) * Freedom Tunnel (railway tunnel in NYC) * Urban exploration (exploration of abandoned places in cities) * Revs (graffiti artist) * Catacombs of Paris (tunnel network) * Philibert Aspairt (man who died in the Paris catacombs in 1793) * Cataphiles (urban explorers who illegally tour the Mines of Paris) * Metro-2 (purported secret underground metro system in Moscow) * How Getting Lost in a Cave Affects the Brain (article) * Strataca (salt-mine museum in Kansas) * Lakota Wind Cave (site in South Dakota) * Homestake Mine (deep South Dakota gold mine) * Gregory of Nyssa (Christian saint)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“You need to create your own life, and gather memories while you still can. There are no guarantees that you will have a 'next year' or a 'ten years from now' or even a tomorrow.” –Maggie Downs

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Maggie discuss how she started traveling (3:00); “trying on” different versions of yourself during travel (17:00); and travel as a way to reflect on your life (37:00).

Maggie Downs (@downsanddirty) is an award-winning writer whose work has appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Los Angeles Times, and Lonely Planet’s True Stories From the World’s Best Writers and Best Women’s Travel Writing. She is the author of Braver Than You Think.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“I reached out to dozens of potential mentors. The two that that changed my life are the ones who didn't give me advice upon first meeting me, but asked me questions..” –Alex Banayan

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf, Cal, and Alex discuss how Alex realized he desperately he needed help in writing his book The Third Door, how Cal Fussman came to help him with the project, and why asking questions is as essential of a mentor as is giving advice (5:30); why the vulnerability and tension of good storytelling is more essential than conveying dry facts in writing a business book, and how Cal encouraged Alex to recount a humiliating story about sending a single shoe to Warren Buffet at the behest of a bad-faith mentor (23:00); what happens when a would-be mentor gives the mentee advice out of narcissism or bad faith, and how to know when not to heed the advice of a mentor (35:00); how to find and recount the most vulnerable and appealing part of your own life-narrative, and how Cal taught himself how to tell good stories (42:00); what Cal and Alex's mentoring sessions looked like, in terms of what Cal was trying to get Alex to understand (51:00); what Cal learned from Alex as his mentor, how Alex's insights improved his career, and what older people in general can learn from younger people (56:30); and what kinds of advice Cal and Alex have for people seeking to discover and fine-tune mentor-mentee relationships (1:02:00).

Cal Fussman (@calfussman) is a journalist, author, and Writer at Large for Esquire Magazine, where he has interviewed the likes of Muhammad Ali, Mikhail Gorbachev, Jeff Bezos, Richard Branson, Robert DeNiro and hundreds of others who’ve shaped the last half-century. Alex Banayan (@AlexBanayan) was named to Forbes’ 30 Under 30, and Business Insider’s “Most Powerful People Under 30” lists. He is the author of the international bestseller The Third Door. For more about Cal and Alex, check out their websites, https://www.calfussman.com and https://thirddoorbook.com.

Notable Links: * + Larry King (television host) + Warren Buffett (American investor) + Reid Hoffman (American internet entrepreneur) + Nelson Mandela (former President of South Africa) + Muhammad Ali (boxer) + Gary Vaynerchuk (entrepreneur) + Elliot Bisnow (entrepreneur) + Tim Ferriss on how to create a successful podcast (Deviate episode) + The Alchemist, by Paulo Coelho (book) + Sonia Sotomayor (Supreme Court Justice) + Charles Dickens (writer) + Fyodor Dostoevsky (author) + O. Henry (writer) + Sugar Ray Leonard (boxer) + Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer (SNL sketch) + @lukeoakvt (TikTok account)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, the New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Binge watching is designed to make time disappear. A home film festival is designed to be time well spent." –Kevin Smokler

Kevin Smokler (@weegee) is a writer, public speaker, critic, and author of Brat Pack America and Practical Classics. He speaks on the future of media and culture and his written work has appeared in such publications as the Los Angeles Times, Buzzfeed, and Vulture. He previously appeared as a guest on Episode 33 of Deviate, Why 1980s coming-of-age movies matter, and Episode 60, "Celebrating the best travel movies ever."

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kevin explain how to organize and execute a Shelter in Place Film Festival as an alternative to bingeing video during a time of pandemic. Kevin hosts a full guide online at his website, but here's an outline version: Notes on creating a Shelter in Place Film Festival 1. Establish a time-constraint

An afternoon? A day? A weekend? Film Festivals are inherently a time-bound activity.

It may seem counterintuitive to begin planning with how much time you wish to spend watching movies rather than how many or what movies you wish to see. But you can always add movies if everyone's having a great time, or cut the lineup short if everyone's falling asleep.

Setting a time-limit also creates reasonable expectations. Watching eleven movies in a day is not going to happen. Watching three over a week might seem anti-climactic, something you'd do anyway instead of creating an event. Film festivals are about maximizing quality for each hour spent watching, not about watching until you and your guests physically can't anymore. 2. Establish who will be a part of it

A film festival for just you and your loved ones at home is the easiest way to do this. Level up by inviting friends or another family to join: Everyone watches the movies in their own home then signs on to Zoom or Google Hangout afterward at a designated time to talk about the movie you just saw.

If you're making it a truly virtual film festival, it's a bit more important to stick to a schedule so all participants know when they should be watching and when they should be talking with each other. 3. Choose a leader and delegate responsibilities

You can either designate a leader who picks all the movies, or you can create a list based on a theme (see next) and vote. A designated leader, like dictatorship, is more efficient. Democracy, as Oscar Wilde said, "is great but takes up a lot of weeknights."

If you're the leader, do your own research and come up with the program or poll your own electorate of family and friends for both a theme or movies that fit it. But remember, this kind of film festival is designed to entertain the guests, not show what sort of genius you were for coming up with the event in the first place.

Film festivals benefit from a strong leader so the movies are well chosen and hang together. Someone who is a leader, but listens to those he/she has invited to the festival. 4. Pick a theme or organizing principle

Festivals have themes to distinguish themselves from binge watching. The idea is many movies creatively grouped in a interesting way. Half the joy is coming up with that creative list rather than just hitting "next" on the remote control.

A Vertical Festival is usually organized around the body of work of a creative person (all of Denzel Washington's pre-Oscar movies, all movies directed by Ava Duvernay). The purpose of a Vertical Festival is to notice commonalities (Michael Douglas never plays a working-class person) and evolutions (Laura Dern often played quiet characters in her 20s and loud characters in her 40s and 50s).

A Horizontal Festival is organized around something non-people-related that all the chosen movies have in common (movies who all have "Star" in their name, movies that take place in Chicago). The purpose of a Horizontal Film Festival -- because you have declared the thing they have in common up front -- is to notice differences (look how many different kinds of movies took place only at night).

A Spring-Cleaning Festival is a conscious attempt to see movies that have languished on your to-be-watched list for too long. A Spring-Cleaning Festival is better reserved for a my-family-only kind of festival where everyone's had a hand in the queue to be cleaned out in the first place.

A Hall of Fame Festival is usually grouped around the perceived "best" movies in a genre (Romantic Comedies) or a given time period (the 1990s). A Hall of Fame Festival will inspire debate and discussion b/c "best" is a subjective criterion.

A Hub and Spoke Festival will begin with a beloved, well known film, then move on to ancillary movies (another movie by that director, a remake, another movie featuring a jazz soundtrack) and material (short films from that director, a documentary about the hub film's subject) from there. A Hub and Spoke Festival usually needs a strong leader to push the spokes out far enough from the hub so the movies at this festival feel different enough from one another. 5. Choose which movies you will watch

Whether you go with one leader or a group vote, start by collectively making a first draft list of movies that fit your theme. Most likely it will be longer than the time you have. If it is, either the group votes or the leader should choose using their best judgment. Failing either of those, go with the movies highest rated on Rotten Tomatoes (unless you are really into watching bad movies). 6. Choose a method for watching the movies

It is best to have either hard copies of your chosen films, either on DVD or digital download. Streaming services are notorious for removing movies from their library without telling anybody and you don't want to depend on a movie being available service on day of your festival because there's no promise of that. 7. Create a schedule and film-order

Unless your theme requires you to go in a specific order, start with a short fun, banger of a film to whet everyone's appetites. End on a movie with uplift because if you end with a horribly depressing movie, the audience will not only feel depressed about the movie, but the festival itself (and most likely you as well). In between, you generally want to alternative between heavy and light emotional tones, between short and long run-times. 8. Mix things up when it's over

After your festival do something completely different, like go for a hike or call someone. Watching a bunch of movies in a row can be a mostly forgettable activity if it's all swallowing and no digesting.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Give yourself the luxury of unplugging from the news cycle. Like travel, this will allow you to reconnect with an older way of being human." –Rolf Potts

To celebrate the launch of Deviate Season 3, Rolf gets the tables turned on him as he is interviewed by Konrad Waliszewski as part of TripScout's #TravelFromHome initiative. Discussion topics include how travel skills apply to quarantine life at home, and how to engage in creative new habits a familiar environment (3:00); how to find serendipity and spontaneity at home when you can't travel (12:00); hopes and advice for "getting travel right" once we're able to travel again (17:30); how to engage in the spirit of long-term travel when you have a more traditional life, such as kids or a place-based job (26:00); which travel books Rolf recommends right now, why he started the Deviate podcast, and which projects he plans to tackle in the near-future (31:00); and how Rolf plans his journeys, what inspired his early travels, and how he seeks to go vagabonding in places close to home (43:00).

Konrad Waliszewski (@goKonrad) is the CEO and co-founder of TripScout, a travel entertainment platform and app that provides a portal for visual discovery by featuring the best articles and videos from top publishers and local influencers for each destination. Prior to TripScout, he was the COO of Speek as well as a consultant for private equity firms and Fortune 500 companies.

Notable Links: * Bocce (ball game) * An African in Greenland, by Tété-Michel Kpomassie (book) * Song of the Open Road, by Walt Whitman (poem) * Leaves of Grass, by Walt Whitman (poetry collection) * Annie Dillard (author) * Video Night in Kathmandu, by Pico Iyer (book) * Barbarian Days, by William Finnegan (book) * On Photography, by Susan Sontag (essay collection) * Still Processing (podcast) * The Ringer (website) * Go Viral Festival & Network (festival) * How being travel-influential differs from being an travel “influencer” * Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) * Walking every single street in New York City (Deviate episode) * Punk icon Ian MacKaye (Deviate episode) * Deviate Super Bowl special (podcast episode) * Narrative therapy can make life feel more coherent (Deviate episode) * Luke Van Tassel's TikTok (Rolf's nephew's social-media stories)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“The pandemic might be a pretext to reinvent travel writing in a way that actually reports on the nuances of a complicated world rather than just framing vacation experiences.” –Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf reports solo from his quarantine to talk about the end of his second podcast season, and the misconceptions people have about his home state of Kansas (0:50); what travel might look like once we are no longer in quarantine, the ethical issues surrounding the consumer rituals of the travel industry, and the shortcomings of commercial travel media and travel writing (9:00); how vagabonding travel skills, habits, instincts can help make pandemic quarantine easier and more dynamic, including reading books (16:00); a recap of the most interesting and unique episodes of Deviate Season Two, including movie episodes (20:40); what to expect from Season Three of Deviate, including episodes about travel, travel writing, nostalgia, and racial diversity (25:10); and what life is like for Rolf in quarantine in Kansas (30:00). ​The episode also includes songs from Cedar Van Tassel's album Lumber, including "USD 306," "Turkey Vulture Sky," and "Lumber."​

Notable Links: * Deviate theme music: Cedars in Violent Territory Lumber album * 13 Podcasts for Wandering Souls (New York Times article) * Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode 79) * Holiday (travel magazine published from 1946-1977) * Abroad: British Literary Traveling between the Wars, by Paul Fussell (book) * Spanish influenza (1918-1920 flu pandemic) * Ari Shaffir on the finer points of indie travel (Deviate episode 103) * On keeping a travel journal (Deviate episode 71) * My Struggle, Karl Ove Knausgård (autobiographical series of novels) * Seneca the Younger (Stoic philosopher) * Ari Shaffir and Rolf on doing psychedelics (Deviate episode 53) * The power of small choices across decades (Deviate episode 96) * Why dinosaurs matter (Deviate episode 99) * Leonardo DiCaprio’s The Beach, 20 years later (Deviate episode 59) * Why Do the Right Thing remains a classic (Deviate episode 76) * Wesley Morris (journalist and critic) * Remembering Anthony Bourdain (Deviate episode 34) * Travel and health in the age of COVID-19 (Deviate episode series)

Rolf's pandemic book readings and suggestions: * The Art of Memoir, by Mary Karr * Native Stranger, by Eddy L. Harris * The Way of the World, by Nicholas Bouvier * A Field Guide to Getting Lost, by Rebecca Solnit * Leaves of Grass, by Walt Whitman * Pilgrim at Tinker Creek, by Annie Dillard * Jesus' Son, by Denis Johnson * Cannery Row, by John Steinbeck * The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian, by Sherman Alexie * Barbarian Days, by William Finnegan * Vida, by Patricia Engel * On the Plain of Snakes, by Paul Theroux * Columbine, by Dave Cullen * Why Dinosaurs Matter, by Kenneth Lacovara

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. 

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“This is another thing that travel teaches you: It reminds you that you have to live now, and travel is a way of living now.” – Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and his parents convene in quarantine to reminisce about their old trip to Paris and Prague together, and how it deepened their memories, their understanding of Europe, and their relationship with each other. They begin by talking about why exactly they went to Paris and Prague (8:00); what sights they saw in Paris, both intentional and accidental, and how they remember their experience there (13:00); how in some ways travel to other cultures is a form of "time travel" (18:00); how travel has a way of reverting travelers into a childlike awareness of their surroundings (24:00); why Père Lachaise Cemetery is a fascinating place to visit in Paris (30:00); how a hostel made for a good place from which to base an exploration of Prague, and what they found in the city by walking everywhere (36:00); the joy of taking public transport into unfamiliar neighborhoods and finding Corvette rallies and street performers and old citadels (43:00); and what their strongest memories of the travel experience were (52:00).

George and Alice Potts are retired schoolteachers based in Kansas. Alice taught second graders in the Wichita public schools for more than 30 years. In 1994 her classes succeed in promoting legislation to declare the barred tiger salamander the Kansas State Amphibian. George taught science at various Wichita high schools, as well as at Friends University, where he pioneered graduate-level programs in Zoo Science and Environmental Studies. He also helped facilitate the Outdoor Wildlife Learning Sites (OWLS) program for the Kansas Department of Wildlife and Parks.

Notable Links: * 2020 COVID-19 pandemic (global viral outbreak) * The Decameron (novellas collection by Giovanni Boccaccio) * Black Death (14th century pandemic) * China and Mongolia with my parents (Deviate episode) * Paris Writing Workshop (summer creative writing class) * SkyEurope (defunct budget airline) * Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) * Jardin des Plantes (botanical garden in Paris) * Sainte-Chapelle (Gothic chapel in Paris) * Palace of Versailles (old French royal residence outside of Paris) * Père Lachaise Cemetery (largest cemetery in Paris) * Frédéric Chopin (Polish composer) * Jim Morrison (American rock singer) * Abelard and Héloïse (French lovers) * Czech Inn (hostel in Prague) * Prague astronomical clock (medieval clock) * House of the Black Madonna (Cubist building in Prague) * Dancing House (Vlado Milunić/Frank Gehry building in Prague) * Chevrolet Corvette (classic American sports car model) * Výstaviště Praha (exhibition ground in Prague) * Defenestrations of Prague (historical incidents) * Charles Bridge (historic bridge over the Vltava river)

This episode of Deviate is also brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks, and AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, and can customize the route to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"What will travel look like after the pandemic? In material ways it will probably change more than it did post-9/11." --Sean Keener

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Sean talk about how fast the assumptions surrounding international travel have changed in recent weeks, and how that has transformed the assumptions of the travel industry (4:15); making sense of the current uncertainty about how travel has been altered by the COVID-19 pandemic (9;30); distinguishing facts from stories while information about travel keeps changing (16:00); and what travel possibilities and travel ideals might look like in the near future (21:00).

Sean Keener (@SEKeener) is the Cofounder and CEO of the BootsnAll Travel Network, a travel media network focused on planning complex, multi-stop, round-the-world travel. He is also the Chairman of AirTreks, a travel network specializing in multi-stop international travel.

Notable Links: * 2020 COVID-19 pandemic (global viral outbreak) * Travel pros reflect on being grounded (Washington Post article) * How COVID-19 will transform airports (Deviate episode) * What it’s like to travel during COVID-19 (Deviate episode) * How to make sense of pandemic health data (Deviate episode) * 5 ways indie travel has changed since 1999 (Deviate episode) * Monte Carlo simulation (predictive algorithm) * Indie Travel Manifesto (travel-values initiative)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber. COVID-19 episode art was created by Luke Van Tassel. More of his art online here.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"Fear of fear is part of what we have to untangle. Sometimes the real fear never arrives, but you've already worked yourself into a state of crisis."  –Eva Holland

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf talks to Eva talk about how she came to write a book about fear, how fear has affected her own life, and how fear was a part of researching and writing her book (2:00); how fear is defined in the scientific, physiological, and emotional sense (9:00); what Eva learned about existential fears in the context of losing her mother (15:00); how Eva came to be aware of with her fear of heights, and how she came to deal with it (20:00); what science has to say about intuition, what it's like to "smell fear," and what military research has revealed about how we manage fear (27:00); how the experience of trauma is related to certain kind of fear, and what therapies have been developed to help cure PTSD (33:00); the notion of "fearlessness," and what it's like for people who don't seem to experience fear in the way others do (40:00); a beta blocker therapy that is being developed in Amsterdam to treat fear memories (46:30); and how the fear of fear complicates fear itself (53:00).

Eva Holland (@evaholland) is a correspondent for Outside magazine, and the author of Nerve: Adventures in the Science of Fear. Her work has been nominated for a Canadian National Magazine Award, anthologized in The Best Women's Travel Writing and The Best Canadian Sports Writing, and listed among the notable selections in multiple editions of The Best American Essays, The Best American Sports Writing, and The Best American Travel Writing. She lives in the Yukon Territory.

Notable Links: * Yukon (Canadian territory) * Stephen King's It (novel) * Phobia (anxiety disorder) * Prolonged exposure therapy (form of behavior therapy) * Amygdala (clusters of nuclei in the brain) * Intuition (ability to acquire knowledge without conscious reason) * Post-traumatic stress disorder (mental disorder) * EMDR therapy (form of psychotherapy) * Oklahoma City bombing (domestic terrorist attack) * Alex Honnold (American rock climber) * Patient S.M. (woman whose brain prevents her from feeling fear) * Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (2004 movie) * Beta blocker (medication used manage heart rhythms) * Propranolol (type of beta blocker) * How narrative therapy makes life feel more coherent (Deviate episode)

This episode is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Imagine you wake up and you get this call telling you that your father died three days after your mother. How do you think I felt? I couldn't even cry any more. ” –Marco Ferrarese

This episode of Deviate, Rolf summarizes the pandemic-travel reports he's been getting from travelers is places like London, Turkey, Mexico, India, and Macau (2:00); then the episode transitions into Marco Ferrarese's report about his travel-writing excursion in Peru, and what it's like to be locked down in the Peruvian mountain town of Cabanaconde (4:45); how he heard that Tundra and Maurizio, his parents back home in the Lombardy region Italy, had become sick, and why the virus was still spreading in that part of the country (6:45); how his parents' illness was initially misdiagnosed, and how things changed when they were admitted to the hospital (11:40); how it was difficult to interpret the news that was being passed along from the hospital as his parents' conditioned worsened, and how he found out that his mother, and later his father, had died (14:00); and how seriously we need to take the warnings we hear about COVID-19 (21:00).

Marco Ferrarese is an independent researcher and freelance writer. He is author of Nazi Goreng, and Banana Punk Rawk Trails: A Euro-Fool’s Metal Punk Journeys in Malaysia, Borneo and Indonesia, and has reported from all over Asia for a number of international publications including BBC, CNN and National Geographic Traveller. His other projects include Penang Insider and Monkey Rock World: Untamed Travel on Asia's Hidden Roads. Episode art shows Marco Ferrarese's parents, Tundra and Maurizio, visiting the southern Italian town of Matera in 2015.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"Epidemiologists have found that you can slow a pandemic tremendously by focusing public hygiene efforts on three key global airports." –Dr. JP Santiago

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Dr. JP Santiago talk about how the COVID-19 pandemic will change global air travel moving forward (2:00); the prescience of the 2011 movie Contagion, what the scientific data says right now about how long COVID-19 can contaminate various surfaces (13:30); what to make of certain "folk cures" for COVID-19, as well as whether or not it's safe to take medicines like ibuprofen to treat symptoms (20:00); the future of post-traditional medical treatment approaches, such a telemedicine (29:30); what other pandemics, such as H1N1 can (or cannot) teach us about how to respond to COVID-19 (34:00); and when "normal" life might return, given pandemic concerns, and what that might look like (42:00).

JP Santiago has been a family medicine physician in private practice in Dallas/Fort Worth for nearly 20 years. He earned his medical degree in 1997 from the University of Texas Southwestern in Dallas, and did his residency training and was chief resident at the University of Kansas Medical Center before returning to Texas. He will be retiring from private practice in April to work for the Indian Health Service to provide medical care to Native American reservations as a traveling physician. His wife is a physician as well and he has four children. He maintains an aviation magazine online at: https://theavgeeks.com/

Notable Links: * World Health Organization COVID-19 updates (website) * JP’s updates on the COVID-19 pandemic (Facebook posts) * 2020 COVID-19 pandemic (global viral outbreak) * 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Iceland * Airport security repercussions due to the September 11 attacks * Contagion (2011 Steven Soderbergh film) * The New England Journal of Medicine (medical journal) * 2003 SARS outbreak (global viral outbreak) * Tiger King: Murder, Mayhem and Madness (TV show) * 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic (global viral outbreak) * 2009 H1N1 flu pandemic (global viral outbreak) * Antibody (protein utilized by the immune system)

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. COVID-19 episode art was created by Luke Van Tassel. More of his art is online here.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"We need to avoid cherry-picking pandemic data that suits our personal narrative of what we think is going on." --Dr. JP Santiago

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Dr. JP Santiago talk about how the "existential threat" of pandemic is changing the way family-practice doctors are dealing with patients right now (1:40); the role of data in medicine, the definition of "observer bias," and how the willingness to arrive at conclusions that contradict one's initial hypothesis is essential in a medical context (9:30); a history of the shortcomings and dangers of naming infectious diseases after animals, people, or geographical places (20:00); how capitalism can be a force that can both enable and compromise solutions during a pandemic (33:30); and Dr. Santiago's advice on how people should respond to the pandemic (40:00).

JP Santiago has been a family medicine physician in private practice in Dallas/Fort Worth for nearly 20 years. He earned his medical degree in 1997 from the University of Texas Southwestern in Dallas, and did his residency training and was chief resident at the University of Kansas Medical Center before returning to Texas. He will be retiring from private practice in April to work for the Indian Health Service to provide medical care to Native American reservations as a traveling physician. His wife is a physician as well and he has four children. He maintains an aviation magazine online at: https://theavgeeks.com/

Notable Links: * World Health Organization COVID-19 updates (website) * JP's updates on the COVID-19 pandemic (Facebook posts) * 2020 COVID-19 pandemic (global viral outbreak) * Mike Pompeo (American secretary of state) * WHO Best Practices for the Naming Infectious Diseases (PDF) * AIDS (immunodeficiency virus) * Gay-related immune deficiency (original name for AIDS) * 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic (global viral outbreak) * 2003 SARS outbreak (global viral outbreak) * 2009 H1N1 flu pandemic (global viral outbreak) * 2012 Middle East respiratory syndrome (global viral outbreak)

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber. COVID-19 episode art was created by Luke Van Tassel. More of his art online here.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"All the struggles of travel have taught me lessons about survival that will be useful coming up." --Rollie Peterkin

"I don't think there are any 'right' choices at the moment. We're all making the best with what we've got to work with." --Aimée Bruneau

"I think we'll come out of this with a better sense that caring for other people is the most important thing in life. Not material possessions. Not political differences. Not ethnicity or religion. Just the fact that we're all one human family." --Barbara Weibel

In this episode of Deviate, Mike and Anne Howard describe what it's like to be staying put in Poland during the pandemic lockdown (2:30); Justine Miller talks about being stuck in a Tunis hotel after flights stopped leaving the airport (6:00); Rollie Peterkin recounts what it was like to travel in Turkey as news of the pandemic mounted (9:00); Samantha Page talks about how Australian emergency preparedness was enhanced by the recent wildfire outbreak there (13:30); Aimée Bruneau describes a comparatively laid-back atmosphere in Mexico (17:00); Jeremy Kroeker talks about how his inter-continental motorcycle journey has come to a stand-still in Uruguay (22:00); Barbara Ann Weibel talks about how locals and expats are working together to solve problems in Thailand (26:00); Karen Catchpole and Eric Mohl describe uncertain attitudes toward outsiders in parts of Argentina (30:45); Troy Nahumko talks about how his kids are dealing with new developments in Spain (35:00); and Dennis and Stephanie Kay describes how pandemic life in France is a model for what could happen in the United States (39:30).

Pandemic dispatch correspondents:

Mike & Anne Howard (@HoneyTrek) are the authors of Ultimate Journeys for Two: Extraordinary Destinations on Every Continent, and Comfortably Wild: The Best Glamping Destinations in North America.

Justine Miller (@JustineIMiller) is a TV reporter for News 12 The Bronx and News 12 Brooklyn in New York City. She and her husband are in the middle of a seven-month sabbatical that is taking them around the world.

Rollie Peterkin (@Rolliepeterkin) is the author of The Cage: Escaping the American Dream, which recount his experience of becoming an MMA fighter in Peru after having left a career as a bond trader on Wall Street.

Samantha Page (@sampagee) has traveling internationally for more than two years, and is now based in Canberra, where she works as a writer and content developer for the Australian National University.

Aimée Bruneau is a professor of acting, a public speaking coach, an audiobook narrator, a children’s book author, a yoga teacher, a world travel addict, and an international pet-sitter.

Jeremy Kroeker (@Jeremy_Kroeker) is the author of Motorcycle Therapy: A Canadian Adventure in Central America, and Through Dust and Darkness: A Motorcycle Journey of Fear and Faith in the Middle East.

Barbara Ann Weibel (@holeinthedonut) has been traveling the world since she walked away from corporate life in 2007. She shares stories about the places she visits and the people she meets on her blog, Hole in the Donut Cultural Travel.

Karen Catchpole and Eric Mohl (@transamericas_journey) have been traveling full-time since 2006, when they left their apartment in New York City and embarked on their ongoing Trans-Americas Journey. Troy Nahumko is an author and musician based in Caceres, Spain. His recent travel writing focuses on travels around the Mediterranean, from Tangiers to Istanbul.

Dennis and Stephanie Kay are Americans who have been living abroad and traveling the world since 2003. They are currently living as full time residents in Strasbourg, France.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit a given journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber. COVID-19 episode art was created by Luke Van Tassel. More of his art online here.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"Being diagnosed with COVID-19 creates a lot of anxiety. And then you think: Is this thing I'm feeling just anxiety, or is it shortness of breath? Do I need to go to the hospital?" --Nomadic Matt Kepnes

This episode of Deviate, begins with Rolf and Matt Kepnes taking about what it has been like for Matt to suffer from COVID-19, where he might have contracted it (having recently traveled to Taiwan, Paris, and New York), and what will happen to TravelCon in 2020 (2:30); digital nomad Melissa Witmer describes her social isolation in the Canary Islands after having traveled in Turkey (13:00); Marco Ferrarese talks about getting stuck in Peru while COVID-19 ravages his home country of Italy (16:40); Stephanie Johnson explains her decision to stay in rural Kenya rather than try and return stateside (21:05); Jon DeHart describes a seemingly lackadaisical pandemic atmosphere in Tokyo (27:10); Amber Hoffman recounts reactions to COVID-19 in Hong Kong and Spain (32:15); Claire and Sam Jessup talk about waiting out the lockdown in a motorhome in Denmark (37:50); and Brooks Eakin recounts the atmosphere in Shanghai, dating back to the first time in made headlines back in January (43:55).

Travelers and correspondents appearing in this episode:

Matt Kepnes (@nomadicmatt), commonly known as “Nomadic Matt,” is a travel blogger and the New York Times bestselling author of Travel the World on $50 a Day. He is also the founder of TravelCon, a yearly conference to help people learn the skills needed to develop a profitable and sustainable career in the travel industry. His newest book is Ten Years a Nomad. Melissa Witmer is the founder of UltyResults.com a business that helps ultimate frisbee players and coaches improve their performance on the frisbee field. She has been running this business as a digital nomad with no permanent location since 2015.

Marco Ferrarese is an independent researcher and freelance writer. He is author of Nazi Goreng, and Banana Punk Rawk Trails: A Euro-Fool's Metal Punk Journeys in Malaysia, Borneo and Indonesia, and has reported from all over Asia for a number of international publications including BBC, CNN and National Geographic Traveller.

Originally from Washington DC, Stephanie Nasbe Johnson currently lives in Kabarnet, Baringo County, Kenya, where she teaches art and computers through the Polkadot Library, which was set up to encourage a reading culture and promote gender equality.

Jonathan DeHart is a Tokyo-based writer and editor focused on culture and society in Asia. He is the author of a first-edition Japan guidebook for Moon Travel Guides and a journalist with more than 500 published articles.

Amber Hoffman is the food and travel writer behind With Husband In Tow, and, more recently, The Bean Bites, which is a recipe site that focuses on beans and lentils, including pantry staples. Her newest book is The Food Traveler’s Guide to The Costa Brava.

Claire and Sam Jessup have been traveling by motorhome since getting married in September 2018. You can follow our adventures on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, or Twitter.

Brooks Eakin (@BrooksEakin) is an American writer and musician based in Shanghai, China.

The Deviate podcast is sponsored by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit a given journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber. COVID-19 episode art was created by Luke Van Tassel. More of his art online here.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"Travel is in our nature. We'll have to counterbalance our new 'normal' when borders reopen to weigh in an extra element of risk." --Dr. JP Santiago

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Dr. JP Santiago talk about how to make sense of the misinformation about COVID-19 that has flooded social media, and how American cultural attitudes toward the pandemic differ from those in Asia (2:10); how COVID-19 affects its victims, and what data doctors are looking for about the pandemic (12:00); how the virus replicates itself, the duration of its incubation period, and how to stay healthy in public places (17:45); the importance of social distancing and self-quarantine for sick people, and how to keep from transmitting sickness to health workers (22:00); reliable online sources for information about the COVID-19 virus (29:00); how the pandemic has affected travel, and how travelers can stay healthy moving forward (32:00); what happens next with the COVID-19 pandemic worldwide, our efforts to create a vaccine, political foresight, and how the virus will affect human behavior moving forward (38:20).

JP Santiago has been a family medicine physician in private practice in Dallas/Fort Worth for nearly 20 years. He earned his medical degree in 1997 from the University of Texas Southwestern in Dallas, and did his residency training and was chief resident at the University of Kansas Medical Center before returning to Texas. He will be retiring from private practice in April to work for the Indian Health Service to provide medical care to Native American reservations as a traveling physician. His wife is a physician as well and he has four children. He maintains an aviation magazine online at: https://theavgeeks.com/

Notable Links: * World Health Organization COVID-19 updates (website) * JP's updates on the COVID-19 pandemic (Facebook posts) * Ajit Pai (FCC chairman under Donald Trump) * 2020 COVID-19 pandemic (global viral outbreak) * Social distancing (anti-contagion action) * Intubation (medical procedure) * Acute respiratory distress syndrome (lung inflammation) * 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic (global viral outbreak) * 2003 SARS outbreak (global viral outbreak) * 2009 H1N1 flu pandemic (global viral outbreak) * 2012 Middle East respiratory syndrome (global viral outbreak) * CDC Travelers' Health (website resource) * Joshua Lederberg (American molecular biologist)

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

COVID-19 episode art was created by Luke Van Tassel. More of his art online here.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"The average human ear tunes out after about six minutes of orality. It used to be nine." --Elena Passarello

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Elena talk about the first giraffe ever to live in Paris in the 19th century (3:30); how public presentation and performance differs from other kinds of speaking and reading, and how to prepare for it (9:00); the role of nervousness in public speaking, and how to deal with it (21:00); how prepare a text or script before reading or using it as an outline in a public speaking situation (31:00); and the importance of concrete language and "syntactical music" in public speaking (42:00).

Elena Passarello is an American writer, actor, and professor. Her book Let Me Clear My Throat (Sarabande, 2012), won the gold medal for nonfiction at the 2013 Independent Publisher Awards, and her essays on performance, pop culture, and the natural world have been published in Oxford American, Slate, and Creative Nonfiction, among other publications,. For more on Elena, check out https://www.elenapassarello.com/.

Notable Links: * Paris Writing Workshop (annual summer creative-writing class) * Jardin des Plantes (botanical garden in Paris) * Zarafa (giraffe who lived in the Jardin des Plantes) * King Charles X of France (19th century king) * Geoffroy Saint-Hilaire (French naturalist) * Luis Alberto Urrea (poet, novelist, and essayist) * Stump speech (standard speech used by a politician) * Stage combat (theater technique) * Bob Dole (American politician) * Ian MacKaye on the history of rock (Deviate episode) * Cher Ami (heroic World War I homing pigeon) * Gerald Ford (38th president of the United States) * T. Geronimo Johnson (author) * Al Gore (American politician) * Benjamin Percy on telling stories (Deviate episode) * Karen Russell (novelist and short story writer) * George Saunders (novelist)

This episode is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"Travel is kind of strength-training for your soul." --Tara Quinn

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tara talk about she got started coaching people pm setting up work sabbaticals, what her clients' most common concerns are, and how Americans' attitude toward work are different from the rest of the world (3:00); common tactics and techniques she employs as a sabbatical coach, and what kinds of clients she attracts (17:00); how to use travel as a pretext for professional development, self-education, and changing careers (28:00); the importance of imperfection and failure in learning useful lessons from travel (40:00); and ending a long-term sabbatical journey and transitioning back into professional life (48:00).

Tara Quinn (@threemonthvisa) is a certified life and career coach with a passion for working with clients who dream of taking time off to travel, live, work, study or volunteer abroad. Tara roster of clients includes people from companies such as Apple, Google, Microsoft, Bank of America, UC Berkeley, and The United Nations. For more on Tara and her career, check out http://www.threemonthvisa.com/.

Notable Links: * Dude, Where's My Car? (movie) * Vagabonding, by Rolf Potts (book) * Wanderlust, edited by Don George (book) * "Why We Travel," by Pico Iyer (essay) * Pico Iyer on what Japan can teach us about life (Deviate episode) * Tales of a Female Nomad, by Rita Golden Gelman (book) * Gap year (yearlong break before or after university) * Wharton School (business school at UPenn) * Gap analysis (comparison of desired versus actual performance) * Explore Europe on Foot (Deviate episode) * Le Cordon Bleu (culinary school) * Digital nomadism (mobile work-travel movement) * Bodh Gaya (Buddhist pilgrimage site in India) * Culture shock (anxiety from being in an unfamiliar place) * CSI: Miami (police procedural TV drama series)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"It doesn't matter where you're going. Just find a reason to go." --Ari Shaffir

Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comedian, writer, podcaster, and actor. He is the current host of the Skeptic Tank podcast. For more information on Ari, visit his website. This episode of Deviate is excerpted from Ari Shaffir’s Skeptic Tank episode #298: Vagabonder.

​In this episode of Deviate, Ari and Rolf sit down in New York's Tompkins Square Park and talk about the esoteric obsessions that lead you into unique adventures in faraway countries, and the best way to meet people on the road (4:20)​; ​learning languages other than English (11:30); how the presence of communication technology has changed travel, including its social dynamic (17:30); using toilets, eating unfamiliar food, and haggling in markets in non-Western countries (28:00); how travel changes once you're more experienced as a traveler (53:00); comfort food, ordering food overseas, living as an expat overseas, and getting started out in your career overseas (1:04:00); how expectations affect a journey, and how expectations affect one's task as a travel writer (1:17:00).

Notable Links: * The Chernobyl Podcast (HBO companion podcast) * Scriptnotes (screenwriting podcast) * Another Name for Every Thing (Richard Rohr podcast) * Qamishli (Syrian-Turkish border town) * Ulpan (school for the intensive study of Hebrew) * Yinzer (Pittsburgh vernacular word) * Quiet, by Susan Cain (book) * Squat toilet (toilet common in Asia and Africa) * A few notes on wiping your ass (Barry Sonnenfeld essay) * Marco Polo Didn't Go There, by Rolf Potts (book) * Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) * Hogg Market (Kolkata market) * Kelsey Timmerman (author) * "Man bites dog," by Rolf Potts (dog meat article) * Balut (Asian street food, boiled egg embryo) * Vélib' (bicycle sharing system in Paris) * Mandarin Oriental (Bangkok luxury hotel) * Yeshiva (Jewish educational institution) * "On the Trans-Siberian Express," by Rolf Potts (travel essay) * Freighthopping (riding a railroad freight car) * Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate podcast episode) * Donahue Show (TV talk show) * Thomas Merton (Trappist monk and author) * Postcolonialism (academic study of the legacy of imperialism) * Cockfighting (blood sport) * "Turkish Knockout," by Rolf Potts (travel essay) * Skeptic Tank interview with Henry Rollins (podcast episode)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Part of our lives are lived on social media and part are lived in our heart and in the real world. The discrepancy between the two often makes people miserable.” – Aaron Hamburger

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Aaron discuss identifying with Nirvana (3:00); the nature of genius (11:00); and the search of authenticity (20:00).

Aaron Hamburger (@hamburger_aaron) is an author whose writing has appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Chicago Tribune. He is the author of Nirvana is Here and The View from Stalin’s Head, which was awarded the Rome Prize by the American Academy of Arts and Letters and nominated for a Violet Quill Award. For more on Aaron, check out https://aaronhamburger.com/.

Notable Links: * Nevermind (music album) * Smells like Teen Spirit, by Nirvana (song) * Kurt Cobain (musician) * Leonard Cohen (singer) * McCabe & Mrs. Miller (film) * Hallelujah (song) * Random Access Memories (music album) * The Stone Roses (band) * Pixies (band) * The Smashing Pumpkins (band) * Ferris Bueller’s Day Off (film) * Marcel Proust (writer) * Claudine at School, by Colette (novel)

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"In the late 1980s human beings were your YouTube algorithm. Flesh-and-blood people introduced you to the music that changed your life." —Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and and Tod talk about Tod's experience of being in the Jane's Addiction "Stop!" video (3:00); Rolf reads his essay about discovering the album "Nothing's Shocking" in 1989 (7:00); Rolf and Tod discuss what it was like to see Jane's Addiction in the southern California music scene of the mid-late 1980s, versus what listening to AOR radio music was like in the middle of the country (19:30); how radio programming, independent record stores, and personal relationships dictated musical tastes in the 1980s, and how music enabled certain alternative lifestyles (30:00); how Jane's Addiction influenced the sound of certain 1990s Seattle grunge bands, (38:00); what it's like when you're older to listen to music you loved when you were young, and how online algorithms and new technologies have changed the way people now listen to music (44:00); and the legacy of bands like Jane's Addiction and how they changed the way we listen to music now.

Novelist Tod Goldberg (@todgoldberg) is the New York Times bestselling author of over a dozen books, including the novel Gangsterland, which is currently being developed into a television series for Amazon. He is also the director of the University of California-Riverside Palm Desert Low-Residency MFA, and the co-host of the Literary Disco podcast.

Notable links: * The 33 1/3 B-sides: Authors on Beloved Albums (book) * Jane's Addiction (alternative band) * Nothing's Shocking (Jane's Addiction album) * Ian MacKaye on the official history of rock music (Deviate episode) * Jane's Addiction's "Stop!" MTV video * Andrew McCarthy on how travel changed his life (Deviate episode) * Dramarama (1980s alternative rock band) * KROQ (radio station) * High Fidelity (movie) * Grunge (heavy 1990s "Seattle sound" rock music) * Nirvana (1990s alternative rock band) * Pansexuality (sexual orientation) * Alternative Press (magazine) * John the Baptist (biblical figure) * Mother Love Bone (pre-Pearl Jam alternative band) * Temple of the Dog (1990s rock supergroup) * Bruce Springsteen's cover of Prince's "Purple Rain" * New Order's "Age of Consent" (song) * Gary Numan's "M.E." (song)

This episode is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Home is in dialogue with the places you travel, and often serves as an interpretive lens.” – Rolf Potts 

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and his parents reflect their journey to China and Mongolia many years ago. The episode starts with an excerpt of Rolf's 2001 NPR dispatch about the experience, then they recall their visit Korea four years earlier, when Rolf worked as an English teacher in Pusan (13:00); then they recount their impressions of staying together in a youth hostel in China, and exploring the sights of Beijing (20:00); and finally they recall their train ride to Mongolia, and their unusual experiences in the countryside outside of Ulan Bator (48:00).

George and Alice Potts are retired schoolteachers based in Kansas. Alice taught second graders in the Wichita public schools for more than 30 years. In 1994 her classes succeed in promoting legislation to declare the barred tiger salamander the Kansas State Amphibian. George taught science at various Wichita high schools, as well as at Friends University, where he pioneered graduate-level programs in Zoo Science and Environmental Studies. He also helped facilitate the Outdoor Wildlife Learning Sites (OWLS) program for the Kansas Department of Wildlife and Parks.

Notable Links: * Raising My Parents in Mongolia, by Rolf Potts (NPR broadcast) * The Rewatchables (podcast) * The great railway bizarre (2018 Deviate podcast episode) * On the Trans-Siberian Express, by Rolf Potts (1999 essay) * Noraebang (Korean interactive music entertainment) * Temple of Heaven (complex of religious buildings in Beijing) * Tiananmen Square (large public square in Beijing) * Summer Palace (ensemble of gardens and palaces in Beijing) * Beijing Museum of Natural History * Beijing Zoo * Sedgwick County Zoo (Kansas wildlife park) * Flint Hills (iconic prairie region in Kansas) * Naadam (Mongolian festival) * Ger (Mongolian-style tent) * Karakorum (old Mongolian imperial capital) * Tough Mongolian horse-riding girl mentioned in episode (photo)

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"Common sense is a very poor guide to understanding the universe. Science is kind of the opposite of common sense. It seems fanciful to think that a bird is a dinosaur, but that is literally true." –Kenneth Lacovara

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kenneth discuss why dinosaurs matter, especially for little kids (5:00); how we have come to learn what we know about dinosaurs (23:00); the "butterfly effect," and how we use the ancient past to predict the future (35:00); the distinctions between the dinosaurs, and what field-work looks like (42:00); and myths about dinosaurs (53:00).

Kenneth Lacovara (@kenlacovara) is a paleontologist and geologist. He is a professor at Rowan University and fellow at the Explorers Club where he received the Explorers Club Medal, the highest honor bestowed by The Explorers Club. He is the author of the book Why Dinosaurs Matter, which is based on his TED Talk, "Hunting for dinosaurs showed me our place in the universe."

Notable Links: * Dinosaurs, by Rolf Justin Potts (PDF of Rolf's hand-illustrated 1978 "book") * Paleontology (scientific study of life predating the Holocene Epoch) * Jurassic Park (movie) * Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event * Hallucigenia (genus of Cambrian xenusiids) * Triassic (geologic period) * Jurassic (geologic period) * Origin of birds (started as theropod dinosaurs) * Clades (organism group consisting of a common ancestor and its descendants) * Sauropsids (clade consisting of reptiles and birds) * Synapsids (animal group that includes mammals) * Hominids (taxonomic family of primates) * Butterfly effect (chaos theory postulation)

Dinosaurs mentioned: * Tyrannosaurus Rex (carnivorous theropod) * Stegosaurus (armored herbivore) * Triceratops (herbivorous ceratopsid) * Ankylosaurus (armored herbivorous) * Brontosaurus (herbivorous sauropod) * Velociraptor (carnivorous theropod) * Allosaurus (carnivorous theropod) * Dreadnoughtus (herbivorous sauropod) * Brachiosaurus (herbivorous sauropod) * Diplodocus (herbivorous sauropod) * Titanosauria (herbivorous sauropod) * Argentinosaurus (herbivorous sauropod) * Camptosaurus (beaked ornithischian) * Spinosaurus (carnivorous theropod) * Teratosaurus (Triassic archosaur) * Pterodactyl (flying pterosaur)

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Traveling, for me, is all about destroying stereotypes and narratives about people and places.” – Matt Green

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Matt discuss Matt’s mission to walk every street in New York City (3:00); walking across the entire United States and breaking stereotypes (12:00); bucket lists as a catalyst for action (28:00); and Matt’s experiences walking in unfamiliar places and finding comfort in being a stranger (50:00).

Matt Green is the wanderer who was profiled within the documentary The World Before your Feet, directed by filmmaker Jeremy Workman and produced by Jesse Eisenberg. Matt has walked across the entire United States and is currently in the process of walking every street in New York City. For more about Matt and his current project, check out https://imjustwalkin.com/.

Notable Links: * East of Eden, by John Steinbeck (book) * East of Eden excerpt * The Journey Home, by Edward Abbey (book) * Cannery Row, by John Steinbeck (book) * Cannery Row excerpt * Gary House (traveler) * The World Before Your Feet at Kanopy

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"Because I was entering football fandom at the same age that Star Wars was blowing up, the Roger Staubach Dallas Cowboys were my Luke Skywalker, and the Steelers and the Raiders were, in my child mind, the Evil Empire." —Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf shares his 2002 NPR "Savvy Traveler" dispatch about trying to watch the Super Bowl in Thailand (2:00); then he and Tod Goldberg discuss how they became NFL football fans as kids in the 1970s, and how this affected their fandom later in life (9:00); how it could be difficult in the days before the Internet for kids to find information about NFL teams and players, and which books they read about the early days of pro football (26:00); the origins of the San Francisco 49ers and Kansas City Chiefs in upstart pro leagues, their more recent fortunes in the NFL, and how the last Chiefs Super Bowl appearance was nine months before Rolf was born (42:30); on watching Super Bowls from overseas and following the Chiefs (or 49ers) as adults, the strengths of the 2020 Chiefs and 49ers teams, and the emotional stakes of Super Bowl LIV (53:00).

Novelist Tod Goldberg (@todgoldberg) is the New York Times bestselling author of over a dozen books, including the novel Gangsterland, which is currently being developed into a television series for Amazon. He is also the director of the University of California-Riverside Palm Desert Low-Residency MFA, and the co-host of the Literary Disco podcast.

NFL games and players: * Super Bowl LIV (2020 KC Chiefs versus SF 49ers NFL title game) * Rolf Benirschke (San Diego Chargers placekicker in the 1980s) * Roger Staubach (Dallas Cowboys quarterback in the 1970s) * Jack Lambert (Pittsburgh Steelers linebacker in the 1970s) * Christian "Nigerian Nightmare" Okoye (Chiefs fullback in the 1980s) * Ray Guy (Oakland Raiders punter in the 1970s) * Mike Mercer (NFL punter in the 1960s) * Lou "The Toe" Groza (NFL punter and offensive tackle in the 1950s) * Marshall Goldberg (Jewish Chicago Cardinals running back in the 1940s) * Red "Galloping Ghost" Grange (Chicago Bears player-coach in the 1930s) * 1934 NFL Championship Game, aka the "Sneakers Game" (title game) * 1940 NFL Championship Game, (73-0 Bears-Giants title game) * Steve Grogan (New England Patriots quarterback in the 1980s) * Ed "Too Tall" Jones (Cowboys defensive end in the 1980s) * Super Bowl IV (1970 Chiefs versus Vikings NFL title game) * NFL Films: Super Bowl IV Highlights (sports documentary) * Hank Stram (Chiefs coach from 1960-1974) * Len Dawson (Chiefs quarterback in the 1960s and 1970s) * Lloyd C. A. Wells (pioneering scout for the Chiefs in the 1960s) * Todd Blackledge (Chiefs 1983 draft-pick quarterback) * Super Bowl XLVII (2013 Ravens versus 49ers NFL title game) * Patrick Mahomes (current Chiefs quarterback) * Andy Reid (current Chiefs head coach) * Jimmy Garoppolo (current 49ers quarterback) * Super Bowl XVI (1981 49ers versus Bengals NFL title game)

Other links: * Kumbh Mela (Indian Hindu pilgrimage celebrated every 12 years) * Watching the Super Bowl in Namibia, by Rolf Potts (essay) * Super Bowl Exile (Rolf's 2002 NPR dispatch) * Tod Goldberg on why sports is so emotionally affecting (Deviate episode) * The Catch (touchdown reception in the 1981 NFC Championship Game) * West Coast offense (passing-oriented football strategy) * Matthew Zapruder (American poet and editor) * Oakland Raiders relocation to Las Vegas (NFL franchise location change) * Candlestick Park (former stadium that hosted San Francisco 49ers games) * Tom Landry, Existentialist, Dead at 75, by Sarah Vowell (essay) * Nerf (toy brand that made foam footballs) * Tecmo Bowl (1980s football video game) * Sears Christmas Wish Book was great American literature (Deviate episode) * Championship: The NFL Title Games Plus Super Bowl, Jerry Izenberg (book) * The Super Bowl Shuffle (rap song performed by the 1985 Chicago Bears) * Bill Haley & His Comets (early rock and roll band) * All-America Football Conference (professional football league from 1946-49) * Los Angeles Dons (football team in the AAFC) * American Football League (professional football league from 1960-69) * Battle of New Orleans (1815 battle between British and US armies) * Former Minnesota quarterback Joe Kapp gets in a fight (video) * Historically black colleges (pre-Civil Rights universities for African-Americans) * Edgar Allen Poe (Baltimore poet whose poem inspired the Ravens mascot) * 2014 American League Wild Card Game (Royals v. A's baseball game) * Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives (American food reality television series)

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“You have to make moves that will not just impact your today but the lives of folks down the road.” —Kaye Monk-Morgan

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kaye discuss the life of her grandfather John Monk, growing up in Louisiana during Jim Crow, and the extended impacts of sharecropping (13:00); the challenges of assimilating to military life and overcoming racial adversity during World War II (25:00); and how small choices and sacrifices can have an outsized impact on our lives and the lives of others (43:00).

John Monk (1916-2018) was born into a family of sharecroppers in Haynesville, Louisiana. He served in the United States Army through World War II, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War. After retiring from the military he moved to Wichita, where he raised his family and worked as a doorman at Park Lane Towers. Kaye Monk-Morgan is an Assistant Vice President for Academic Affairs at Wichita State University, where she facilitates leadership and professional development opportunities for low-income and first-generation students, especially in science, technology, engineering and mathematics.

Notable Links: * Targeting Black Veterans: Lynching in America (Equal Justice Initiative report) * Long-ago choice leads to life of dreams fulfilled (newspaper story on John Monk) * Hometown Heroes: 101-year-old Army veteran’s secret to life (TV story on John Monk) * Jim Crow laws (local laws enforcing racial segregation) * Sharecropping (agricultural landowner/tenant arrangement) * Harlem Hellfighters (World War I infantry regiment) * Greatest Generation (American demographic cohort) * Fort Knox (United States Army post in Kentucky) * Barrage balloon (anti-aircraft kite balloon used in WWI and WWII) * Quartermaster (senior soldier who supervises barracks) * Drill Sergeant (non-commissioned officer assigned to train new recruits) * Dockum Drug Store sit-in (1958 Wichita Civil Rights protest) * Guess Who's Coming to Dinner (1967 Sidney Poitier movie) * Exodusters (African Americans who migrated to Kansas in 1879) * Barry Sanders (Wichita-born NFL Hall of Fame running back)

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

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“Have a bias toward action.” – Chris Guillebeau

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Chris discuss Chris’ quest to travel to every country in the world (4:30); discovering and fine-tuning your passions through travel (17:00); exploring creativity through various mediums, and discontentment as a catalyst for change (27:00); knowing when to write a book (44:00); and overcoming adversity as a creative person (56:00).

Chris Guillebeau (@chrisguillebeau), who visited every country in the world before his 35th birthday is a New York Times bestselling author. His books include The Art of Non-Conformity, The $100 Startup, The Happiness of Pursuit, and Side Hustle. He is also the host of the Side Hustle School podcast. For more on Chris, check out https://chrisguillebeau.com/ or his 193 Countries Project at https://www.instagram.com/193countries/.

Notable Links: * School of Travel (podcast) * The 4-Hour Workweek, by Tim Ferriss (book) * Rolf's Big Idea Book Bootcamps * Paris Writing Workshops * World Domination Summit (event) * Ryan Holiday (author) * Scrivener (note management application) * Evernote (note management application)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by TripScout. This app provides a portal for visual discovery by featuring the best articles and videos from top publishers and local experts for each destination. Every restaurant, café, shop, or site featured within the content is mapped to one of TripScout’s 100 million+, constantly updated points of interest. With one tap, travelers can save anything they discover, allowing them to stitch together their perfect trip into a full, personalized itinerary that is connected to a downloadable offline map. More information at Deviate‘s TripScout link. Also: Check out TripScout founder Konrad Waliszewski's School of Travel podcast.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Do not hold on to any one vision of what your life should look like.” – Rachel Friedman

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Rachel discuss perceptions of success (3:15); the upside of failure and non-linear paths to success (13:00); ordinariness and the influence of public validation (23:00); and the reconciling old and new goals and the art of quitting (36:00).

Rachel Friedman (@RachelFriedman) is a traveler, writer, and author of The Good Girl's Guide to Getting Lost, which was chosen as a Target Breakout Book and selected by Goodreads’ readers as one of the best travel books of 2011. Her latest book, And Then We Grew Up is out now. For more about Rachel, check out https://www.rachel-friedman.com/.

Notable Links: * At Eternity’s Gate (film) * Vincent Van Gogh (artist) * José Ortega y Gasset (philosopher) * Malcolm Gladwell (author) * The Road Not Taken, by Robert Frost (poem) * Napoleon Dynamite (film) * Black Mirror (television show)

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Treat Indonesia as a continent, not a country.” – Tim Hannigan

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tim discuss why Indonesia is underrated (3:00); the role of Indonesia in the popular consciousness (15:00); the history or Bali and the geography of Indonesia (22:00); cultural differences and the influence of travel blogging (38:00); and strategies for first time travelers (55:00).

Tim Hannigan (@Tim_Hannigan) is a travel and history writer, specializing in Southeast Asia and particularly Indonesia. He has written travel features for newspapers and magazines in Asia, the Middle East, North America and the UK, and has contributed to various radio and television documentaries on Asian history. He has also worked on guidebooks to destinations including Bali, Nepal, Myanmar, and India. Tim is the author of A Brief History of Indonesia and A Geek in Indonesia. For more about Tim, check out https://timhannigan.com/.

Notable Links: * Krakatoa, by Simon Winchester (book) * Nathaniel’s Nutmeg, by Giles Milton (book) * Marco Polo (explorer) * Eddie Van Halen (musician) * Insights from Henry Rollins’ 2018 Travel Slideshow (blog post) * Avenged Sevenfold (band) * Indohoy (website / blog)

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"Kicking and Screaming is a more arch and far more intelligent version of the TV show Friends. If you want to experience that feeling of being young and not really knowing yet what you're doing in life, watch this movie instead." --Michael Weinreb

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Michael discuss the plot of Noah Baumbach's debut movie Kicking & Screaming, and how it explores life-transition and the loss of status that accompanies college graduation (3:15); Generation X movie marketing, and how Michael and Rolf came to find the movie in video stores (9:00); other movies with a similar youth theme, such as Glory Daze, and how even slacker movies could be aspirational for people who watched them (18:00); the way Kicking & Screaming played with notions of nostalgia (27:00); plot aspects that do double comedic/dramatic-duty (33:00); ties to other Noah Baumbach characters, and the philosophical texture of indecision (43:00); the way the movie explores the small problems of being young and upper-middle class in a time of relative peace (48:00); how sense of place affects the characters the story, and how the movie has a writerly sensibility (51:00); and the case for why one should watch the movie (1:01:00).

Michael Weinreb (@MichaelWeinreb) is the author of three sports books, including Game of Kings, about a Brooklyn high-school chess team; Bigger Than the Game, about the rise of celebrity sports culture in the 1980s; and a cultural and personal history of college football, Season of Saturdays. He has been a contributing writer for ESPN, The New York Times, Grantland, Rolling Stone, The Athletic, and The Ringer. For more about Michael, check out https://michaelweinreb.com/.

1980s and 1990s youth-culture links: * TIME’s 1990 “Twentysomething” article (which first defined Generation X) * Sophfronia Scott on defining a generation (Deviate podcast episode) * Remembering Noah Baumbach’s fan-site Q&As (essay) * Wayback Machine (digital archive) * "Age of Consent" (New Order song) * Friends (1990s TV show) * Details (1990s youth-culture magazine) * Roger Ebert (movie critic) * Blockbuster (video rental store) * Tetris (video game)

Books and creators mentioned: * All the Pretty Horses, by Cormac McCarthy (novel) * A Separate Peace, John Knowles (novel) * The Catcher in the Rye, by JD Salinger (novel) * Lena Dunham (writer and actor) * Bill Simmons (writer and podcaster) * Chuck Klosterman (author and commentator) * Noel Coward (playwright) * Nick Drake (singer-songwriter) * Gordon Gano (Violent Femmes singer) * Jose Ortega y Gasset (Spanish philosopher)

Noah Baumbach projects and collaborators: * Mr. Jealousy (1997 movie) * Highball (1997 movie) * The Squid and The Whale (2005 movie) * Greenberg (2010 movie) * Frances Ha (2012 movie) * Marriage Story (2019 movie) * Chris Eigeman (actor) * Carlos Jacott (actor) * Ben Stiller (actor/director) * Jason Blum (producer) * Vassar College (Baumbach's alma mater)

1980s and 1990s movies mentioned: * The Big Lebowski * Reality Bites * Singles * Empire Records * Glory Daze * Dazed and Confused * Ferris Bueller's Day Off * Dead Poets Society * Slacker * Swingers * Reservoir Dogs * Breakin' 2: Electric Boogaloo

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“The Sears Christmas Wish Book was, for me, a kind of foundational text — a secular counterpoint to the Bible stories I learned around that time in Sunday School. I paged through the holiday catalog’s 620 glossy pages as if they amounted to an intoxicating graphic novel of desire, rich with abundance and possibility.” – Rolf Potts, from “Literature of Desire”

In this episode Rolf reads an audio version of his Christmas-themed essay “Literature of Desire,” and discusses the wonders of the Sears Christmas Wish Book with novelist Tod Goldberg (@todgoldberg). Tod is the New York Times bestselling author of over a dozen books, including the Gangsterland series, which is currently being developed into a television show. He is also the director of the University of California-Riverside Palm Desert Low-Residency MFA, and the co-host of the Literary Disco podcast.

Introduction (01:35 – 12:20) * Vintage Sears Wish Book online archive * What Exactly is Christmas Tree Flocking? from Mental Floss * Klonopin (anxiety medication) * Janis Ian (singer-songwriter) * Enchroma glasses (to correct colorblindness)

Literature of Desire essay (12:20 – 33:20) * Richard Warren Sears (catalog founder) * Mr. Sears’ Catalog (video) from PBS’s American Experience * Sears Catalog Home (ready-to-assemble houses) * That ’70s Show, Happy Days, Good Times, Welcome Back, Kotter (TV shows) * Christie Brinkley and Renee Russo (fashion models) * Pong (video game) * Big Jim’s P.A.C.K. (toy line) * Jay J. Armes (private investigator) * JJ Armes action figure (TV commercial) * “Is Jay J. Armes For Real?” from Texas Monthly * WishBookcom

Sears Wish Book memories (33:20 – 51:10) * Action figures (dolls marketed to boys) * Toughskins (jeans for children) * Huffy (bicycle brand) * BEST (showroom retail store) * “Kerouac’s Fantasy Baseball Obsession” from Mental Floss * Coleco’s Electronic Quarterback (game)

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Going the longer route through literature, rather than just reading self-help, will ultimately be more satisfying.” – Jeffrey Tayler

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jeffrey discuss navigating life’s challenges through literature (3:00); Ecclesiastes and the great stories of history (12:00); and using literature to make sense of ones life (19:00).

Jeffrey Tayler (@JeffreyTayler1) is an American writer and journalist living in Moscow. He is a contributing editor at The Atlantic, and many of his essays have been selected for The Best American Travel Writing series. Two of his travel essays were also selected by Bill Bryson for the inaugural edition of The Best American Travel Writing 2000. He is the author of seven books, including Siberian Dawn and Facing the Congo. His recent book, In Putin’s Footsteps, which he co-authored with Nikita Khrushchev’s great grand-daughter, is out now.

Notable Links: * Ecclesiastes (biblical text) * A Book of the Bible Even an Atheist Can Love, by Jeffrey Tayler (essay) * Geneva Bible (Shakespeare era bible translation) * King James Bible (iconic English bible translation completed in 1611) * NIV Bible (modern bible translation first published in 1978) * The Gospels (biblical books about Jesus' life and teaching) * Turn! Turn! Turn! (Pete Seeger song popularized by The Byrds) * Paradise Lost, by John Milton (poem) * Homer (author) * Virgil (poet) * Epicurus (Greek philosopher) * The Divine Comedy, by Dante (narrative poem) * Walden, by Henry David Thoreau (book) * The Death of Ivan Ilych, by Leo Tolstoy (novella) * Anna Karenina, by Leo Tolstoy (novel)

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Everything we do in this world comes with a story attached to it.” – Hala Alyan

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Hala discuss narrative therapy and identity formation (3:00); making sense of our youth and life’s challenges (18:00); family and relationship mythology (29:00); how narrative theory addresses common life scenarios (36:00); and narrative theory strategies and techniques (45:00).

Hala Alyan (@HalaNAlyan) is an award-winning Palestinian American poet, novelist, and clinical psychologist whose work has appeared in The New York Times, Guernica and elsewhere. Her poetry collections have won the Arab American Book Award and the Crab Orchard Series. Her debut novel, Salt Houses was the winner of the Arab American Book Award and the Dayton Literary Peace Prize. Her latest poetry collection, The Twenty-Ninth Year, is out now. For more about Hala, check out https://www.halaalyan.com/.

Notable Links: * Narrative therapy (form of psychotherapy) * Palestinian diaspora * American University of Beirut * 2006 Lebanon War (34-day military conflict) * Stranger Things (television show) * Mating in Captivity, by Ester Perel (book) * The Ivy Crown, by William Carlos Williams (poem) * PTSD (mental disorder) * Birth order (psychological development theory) * Cognitive behavioral therapy (psycho-social intervention) * Attachment theory (psychological model) * Psychology Today's Find a Therapist * Narrative Therapy Initiative * The top 10 mental health apps (article)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by the Paris Writing Workshop, a month-long creative writing workshop at the Paris American Academy, in the artistic heart of Europe. In addition to taking classes and participating in workshops, students will receive one-on-one consultations with professional writers, attend literary panel presentations, and give readings in Parisian venues. Core classes include Fiction, Poetry, Creative Nonfiction, Screenwriting as well as Submissions and Publications, a seminar that will give students information, insight and strategies for getting their portfolio work published.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“So much of what is wrong with America today began with the Civil War and Reconstruction” – Jason Cochran

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jason discuss the monuments at Gettysburg, and the concept of a Civil War "hero" (2:00); the revisionist post-war memorial efforts by Southern organizations (13:00); the concept of memorials, and how they shape memory (26:00); and our relationship with deceased celebrities, and how to interpret America through its monuments (40:00).

Jason Cochran (@JasCochran), the award-winning author of Here Lies America, has been a travel authority and consumer expert for over 20 years. His work has appeared in such publications as Travel + Leisure, the New York Post, USA Today, and The New York Times. He is currently Editor-in-Chief of Frommers.com and co-host with Pauline Frommer of the weekly Travel Show on WABC. For more about Jason, check out https://jasoncochran.com/.

Notable Links: * Battle of Gettysburg * Andersonville Historical Site * Reconstruction Era * Robert E. Lee (Commander of the Confederate Army) * United Daughters of the Confederacy (association) * Ladies Memorial Associations (Southern monument effort) * Ford' Theatre (site of Lincoln assassination) * Ken Burns (filmmaker) * Jim Crow Laws * National Lynching Memorial * The Canterbury Tales, by Geoffrey Chaucer (book) * Negro Leagues Baseball Museum * USS Maine National Monument * Grant's Tomb * Prison Ship Martyrs' Monument (Revolutionary War memorial) * National September 11 Memorial & Museum * Forest Lawn Memorial Park * Hollywood Forever Cemetery * Père Lachaise Cemetery (Paris) * Tulsa race riot (1921 massacre) * Haymarket affair (1886 Chicago incident) * Johnstown Flood * 1906 San Francisco earthquake * Vietnam Veterans Memorial * Battle of Antietam * Stonewall Jackson (Civil War general) * Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book)

This episode is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“You cannot change your reality until you see your reality.” – Alex Banayan

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Alex discuss mentorship (3:00); the genesis of Alex's book The Third Door (10:00); "opportunity hurdles" (30:00); structural storytelling, and the art of learning (54:00); and the importance of thinking differently (1:11:00).

Alex Banayan (@AlexBanayan) is the bestselling business author of The Third Door, which chronicles his five-year quest to track down Bill Gates, Lady Gaga, Warren Buffett, Maya Angelou, Steven Spielberg, and dozens more of the world’s most successful people to uncover how they broke through and launched their careers. Alex has been named to Forbes’ 30 Under 30 list, Business Insider’s Most Powerful People Under 30, and been featured in major media including Fortune, Forbes, and Businessweek. For more about Alex, check out https://thirddoorbook.com/.

Notable Links: * Tim Ferriss (entrepreneur) * Bill Gates (businessman) * Lady Gaga (singer) * Maya Angelou (poet) * Warren Buffett (businessman) * Steven Spielberg (filmmaker) * Elliott Bisnow (investor) * Cal Fussman (journalist) * Tools of Titans, by Tim Ferriss (book) * Tribe of Mentors, by Tim Ferriss (book) * The Odyssey, by Homer (epic poem) * Aaron Sorkin (screenwriter / director) * Elon Musk (entrepreneur) * Kurt Vonnegut (author) * Steve Jobs (businessman) * “Think Different” internal meeting (video) * Jerry Seinfeld (comedian) * Jane Goodall (anthropologist) * Macbeth (Shakespeare tragedy) * Hero's journey (narrative template) * Pitbull (rapper) * Jessica Alba (actress) * Quincy Jones (producer) * Unbroken, by Laura Hillenbrand (book) * Jiro Dreams of Sushi (movie)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by the Paris Writing Workshop, which features a one-week Big Idea Book Bootcamp, which teaches people with expertise in a specific professional field — business, medicine, science, sports, finance, etc — to channel that expertise into a book-length narrative that inspires, enlightens, and transforms readers' perspectives of the world, and of life.

This episode of Deviate is also brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks, and AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, and can customize the route to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Pretty much the second you step outside your front door, you have some basis for calling what you do 'travel'” – Spud Hilton

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Spud talk about the “messy, fun, and naughty side of travel” (3:20); sex and travel (26:00); the overly reverent language we often use to talk about travel (37:00); and the death of the "Mile-High Club" (48:00).

Spud Hilton (@SpudHilton) is a travel expert, speaker, writer and host of the Inappropriate Traveler podcast.

Notable Links: * Pico Iyer (travel writer) * Paul Theroux (travel writer) * Tim Cahill (travel writer) * Jan Morris (travel writer) * Vagabonding, by Rolf Potts (book) * The English Patient, by Michael Ondaatje (book) * Rolf unpacks his very first vagabonding journey (Deviate podcast episode) * Travel hookups with Flybrother Ernest White II (podcast episode) * Nude in Hvar with Joel Riddell (podcast episode) * Pam Mandel and Seattle’s secret piles of pot (podcast episode) * AFAR (magazine) * Experiential travel (form of tourism) * The Atlanta Hotel (Bangkok) * Stag party (pre-marriage ritual) * Tinder (dating app) * Grindr (dating app) * French Quarter (New Orleans neighborhood) * Mile high club (slang for airplane sex) * "The Death of the Mile-High Club," by Rolf Potts (article) * Andrew McCarthy on how travel changed his life (Deviate podcast episode) * Camino de Santiago (pilgrimage road)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“It’s good as you travel to take the time to do nothing, and have nothing planned.” –Tim Leffel

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tim discuss the advantages of traveling to cheaper parts of the world (3:00); how living overseas can actually be cheaper than your life at home (13:00); strategies to save money on the road (23:00); setting a budget, and counterintuitive sightseeing (34:00); and breaking the myth of expensive European travel (51:00).

Tim Leffel (@timleffel) is an award-winning travel writer and author of The World's Cheapest Destinations and A Better Life for Half the Price. He is the editor of the narrative web publication Perceptive Travel. For more about Tim, check out https://timleffel.com.

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“A writer tends to notice things that other people do not notice. And they are noticing so they can write about it.” – Paul Theroux

In this episode of Deviate, Paul Theroux and Rolf discuss their travels through Mexico and magical realism (4:30); teaching as a way to get to know a country and the importance of reading (20:00); and Paul’s experience traveling along the US-Mexico border and geo-political complexities between the two countries (29:00).

Paul Theroux (@PaulTheroux_) is a pioneer of travel writing and author of many highly acclaimed books, including The Great Railway Bazaar and The Tao of Travel. His work has appeared in such publications as the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and The Guardian. In 2015, Paul Theroux was awarded a Royal Medal from the Royal Geographical Society – an award, approved by the Queen, which is the highest award attainable for a traveler. His latest book, On the Plain of Snakes: A Mexican Journey, was released last month. He last talked with Rolf on Deviate Episode 31, "Paul Theroux on the art of listening, and the necessary obstacles of deep travel."

Notable Links: * Sinclair Lewis (writer) * William Faulkner (writer) * Jorge Luis Borges (writer) * Gabriel García Márquez (writer) * Magical Realism (style of fiction) * James Joyce (writer) * Aldous Huxley (writer) * Jack Kerouac (writer) * Rebecca West (writer) * Harriet Doer (writer) * Leonora Carrington (artist) * The Treasure of the Sierra Madre, by B. Traven (novel) * Nathaniel Philbrick (author) * Moby-Dick, by Herman Melville (book) * Subcomandante Marcos (revolutionary) * Zapatista Army of National Liberation (militant group)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“You do not have to feel beholden to the formula, but you do have to know the formula” – Benjamin Percy

In this episode of Deviate, we sit in on a lecture that Benjamin Percy gave at the 2019 Paris Writing Workshop, on the craft of screenwriting.

Benjamin Percy (@Benjamin_Percy) is the author of four novels, including The Dead Lands, Red Moon, The Wilding, and The Dark Net. His other work includes numerous comics, his writing-craft book, Thrill Me, and his story collection Suicide Woods, out this month. His work has appeared in The Paris Review, The New York Times, and GQ. He currently writes the audio drama Wolverine, now in its second season, and is a regular on the lecture circuit, including at the Iowa Writers’ Workshop, the Breadloaf Writers’ Conference, the Tin House Writers’ Workshop, Aspen Summer Words, and the Paris Writing Workshop. Find more about Benjamin at http://benjaminpercy.com/.

Notable Links: * Jaws (movie) * Jaws screenplay (PDF version) * Touched by an Angel (television show) * AWP Conference & Bookfair * Time and Distance Overcome, by Eula Biss (short story) * Ursula K. Le Guin (author) * The Good, the Bad and the Ugly (movie) * John Ford (director) * Quentin Tarantino (filmmaker) * Psycho (movie) * The Untouchables (movie) * Winter’s Bone (movie) * "The Chain," by Tobias Wolff (short story) * Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (movie) * Sinking of the USS Indianapolis (WWII incident) * Pet Sematary (movie) * The Devil’s Advocate (movie) * 21 Grams (movie) * Final Draft (software)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by the Paris Writing Workshop, a month-long creative writing workshop at the Paris American Academy, in the artistic heart of Europe. In addition to taking classes and participating in workshops, students will receive one-on-one consultations with professional writers, attend literary panel presentations, and give readings in Parisian venues. Core classes include Fiction, Poetry, Creative Nonfiction, Screenwriting as well as Submissions and Publications, a seminar that will give students information, insight and strategies for getting their portfolio work published.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“You have to think about the shelf-life of the tension you're creating. There should be a bigger mystery on the other side of that expiration date.” – Benjamin Percy

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Benjamin discuss the idea that all fiction is essentially genre fiction (3:30); the movement of narrative and the idea that structure underlies all stories (15:00); learning "story math" (31:00); and research processes and work habits (42:00).

Benjamin Percy (@Benjamin_Percy) is the author of four novels, including The Dead Lands, Red Moon, The Wilding, and The Dark Net. His other work includes numerous comics, his writing-craft book, Thrill Me, and his story collection Suicide Woods, out this month. His work has appeared in The Paris Review, The New York Times, and GQ. He currently writes the audio drama Wolverine, now in its second season, and is a regular on the lecture circuit, including at the Iowa Writers’ Workshop, the Breadloaf Writers’ Conference, the Tin House Writers’ Workshop, Aspen Summer Words, and the Paris Writing Workshop. Find more about Benjamin at http://benjaminpercy.com/.

Notable Links: * Refresh, Refresh, by Benjamin Percy * Suicide Woods, by Benjamin Percy * Stephen King (author) * Stan Lee (comic book writer) * The Hobbit, by J.R.R. Tolkien (novel) * Alice Munro (author) * Flannery O’Connor (writer) * James Baldwin (writer) * Lost (television show) * Dungeons & Dragons (role-playing game) * The Sandman, by Neil Gaiman (comic book series) * Preacher (comic book series) * Scalped (comic book series) * Transmetropolitan (comic book series) * What we Talk About When we Talk About Love, by Raymond Carver (short story collection) * Emily Dickinson (poet) * Odyssey, by Homer (epic poem) * Wild, by Cheryl Strayed (novel) * Jaws (movie) * 24 (television show) * 25th Hour (movie) * Superbad (movie) * Alfred Hitchcock (director) * The Tell-tale Heart, by Edgar Allen Poe (short story) * The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, by Stieg Larsson (novel) * The Island of Dr. Moreau, by H.G. Wells (novel) * The Outsiders (movie)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by the Paris Writing Workshop, a month-long creative writing workshop at the Paris American Academy, in the artistic heart of Europe. In addition to taking classes and participating in workshops, students will receive one-on-one consultations with professional writers, attend literary panel presentations, and give readings in Parisian venues. Core classes include Fiction, Poetry, Creative Nonfiction, Screenwriting as well as Submissions and Publications, a seminar that will give students information, insight and strategies for getting their portfolio work published.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“To go off the beaten path, I use a guidebook.” – Pauline Frommer, quoting a young reader

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Pauline discuss the founding of Frommer’s guidebooks and the guidebook revolution (3:30); curating content in the modern world (10:30); sidestepping travel-marketing content (17:15); how guidebooks have been tailored to meet the demands of current travelers (29:00); the impact of global over-tourism (38:00); and the pitfalls of travel, and how to start the process of planning one's next trip (46:00).

Pauline Frommer (@Frommers) is the co-President of Frommer Media LLC, publisher of the Frommer's Travel Guidebook series, for which Pauline is the Editorial Director. She is the author of the best-selling travel guide, Frommer’s EasyGuide to New York City and her writing has appeared in such publications as Budget Travel and Newsweek. Pauline is the co-host of Frommer’s Travel Show.

Notable Links: * Arthur Frommer (travel writer) * The GIs Guide to Traveling in Europe (guidebook) * Book Passage Travel Writers & Photographers Conference * The Beach (movie) * Lonely Planet (guidebook) * Rick Steves (guidebook) * Hawaii Revealed (guidebook) * Let’s Go (guidebook) * 60 Minutes (television program) * Fodors Travel Guide (guidebook) * Moon Travel Guide (guidebook) * World Wide Opportunities on Organic Farms (organization) * Workaway (travel platform) * Anthony Bourdain (celebrity chef / travel documentarian) * Midnight's Children, by Salman Rushdie (novel)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"All the crowds gravitate towards the name-brand national parks, and even within those parks there's a handful of famous hikes or viewpoints that everybody visits. With a little knowledge, creative thinking, and physical effort, you can have a wilderness experience that's peaceful and beautiful -- and you'd never know there were big crowds elsewhere in the park." --James Kaiser

James Kaiser (@JamesKaiser_) has written bestselling travel guidebooks to a number of American national parks, including Acadia, Joshua Tree, the Grand Canyon, Zion, and Yosemite. He speaks about national parks at elementary schools around the United States, and he is also the author of Costa Rica: The Complete Guide.

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and James talk about their early experiences in American national parks (2:30); how to find national parks in a given part of the country, and the rewards of visiting lesser-known parks (14:00); how James became a guidebook author, and the kind of research he does at national parks (20:15); strategies for visiting parks in the 21st century, new trends and developments, and the effects of over-visitation (29:00); how to avoid crowds in national parks and similar American wilderness areas (35:00); strategies the parks use to lessen the impact of visitors (42:00); using (and avoiding) smartphones in national parks, and how social media has affected visitation trends (46:00); the impact of international visitors on national parks (50:00); and why national parks are special, and how to best approach them for first-time visitors (55:30).

Notable links: * "Van Life before #VanLife" (podcast episode) * Acadia National Park (wilderness area in Maine) * Ansel Adams (landscape photographer) * The National Parks: America's Best Idea (television documentary miniseries) * Mount Katahdin (highest mountain in Maine) * Yosemite National Park (wilderness area in California) * Grand Canyon National Park (wilderness area in Arizona) * Tallgrass Prairie National Preserve (natural area in Kansas) * Find Your Park (national park search engine) * Crater Lake National Park (wilderness area in Oregon) * Joshua Tree National Park (wilderness area in California) * The Joshua Tree (1987 U2 album) * Glacier National Park (wilderness area in Montana) * Arches National Park (wilderness area in Utah) * Zion National Park (wilderness area in Utah) * Bureau of Land Management (government public lands) * Horseshoe Bend (incised meander of the Colorado River in Arizona) * Campendium (camping search and reservation app) * HipCamp (camping search and reservation app) * Recreation.gov (camping reservation website)

This episode is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"I will never have another vagabonding journey that compares to that first one -- even though I have since traveled to far more exotic parts of the world -- in part because there's something special about embarking on a long-term trip for the first time." --Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and his old friend Jeff Nienaber talk about their 8-month van trip across North America back in 1994, how they prepared for it, and how it differed from current-day #VanLife excursions (5:30); how they exercised on the road, and how the conditions and travel-hacks of van journeys were different for two young men in 1994 (23:30); the route they took through North America, what happened along the way, and how they kept daily journals recounting events (36:00); the experience riding with cops in Houston, celebrating Mardi Gras in New Orleans, volunteering at a church in Mississippi, meeting girls in Florida, and seeing New York for the first time (51:00); the experience of staying at a Trappist monastery in Massachusetts for one week (1:14:30); visiting National Parks in the American South, Northeast, and West, and memorable books read along the way (1:28:00); and why the trip was life-changing (1:42:00). Van trip preparation and planning links:

• Digital nomadism (travel lifestyle)

• VanLife (travel lifestyle)

• Composting toilet
• Blue Highways, by William Least Heat-Moon (1982 book)
• On the Road, by Jack Kerouac (1957 book)
• Travels With Charley, by John Steinbeck (1962 book)
• Vanagon (Volkswagen van)
• Volkswagen Westfalia (camper van)
• Trangia (alcohol-burning camp-stove)
• A (literal) photo album from my 1994 van vagabonding trip (blog post)

Links regarding early months of the 1994 trip:

• 924 Gilman Street (Berkeley punk club)
• Northridge earthquake (1994 earthquake)
• "The Mystical High Church of Luck" (Salon essay about Las Vegas)
• Lollapalooza (music festival)
• O. J. Simpson murder case (1994 media incident)
• USCGC Northwind (Coast Guard icebreaker)
• Bourbon Street (historic street in New Orleans)
• The Geto Boys, by Rolf Potts (2016 book)
• Fifth Ward (Houston neighborhood)
• Cops (TV show)
• Canton (town in Mississippi)
• In His Steps (Mississippi Christian outreach ministry)
• Waffle House (southern restaurant chain)
• Savannah State (historically black university)
• Debbie Does Dallas (1978 pornographic film)
• Tompkins Square (New York park)

Trappist monastery experience links:

• St. Joseph's Abbey (Massachusetts monastery)
• Trappists (order of Catholic monks)
• Thomas Merton (Trappist monk and writer)
• Memento Mori (existential expression)
• Chant (1994 Monks of Santo Domingo de Silos album)
• Compline (end-of-day church service)

Links regarding the final months of the 1994 trip: * Ocala National Forest (protected area in Florida) * Shenandoah National Park (Virginia wilderness area) * Mount Washington (tallest mountain the northeast U.S.) * Arches National Park (Utah wilderness area) * Fisher Towers (photogenic cliffs near Moab, Utah) * Desert Solitaire, by Edward Abbey (1968 book) * Leaves of Grass, by Walt Whitman (1855 poetry collection) * The Razor's Edge, by W. Somerset Maugham (1944 book) * Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, by Robert M Pirsig (1974 book) * Uinta National Forest (protected area in Utah) * Yellowstone National Park (Wyoming wilderness area) * Glacier National Park (Montana wilderness area) * Pike National Forest (protected area in Colorado)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"Most people do not wake up and think, 'I need more philosophy in my life.' They do wake up and think 'I have a problem and I need a solution'." --Ryan Holiday

Ryan Holiday (@RyanHoliday) is an American marketer and entrepreneur, and the author of eight books, including The Obstacle is the Way, Ego is the Enemy, and Stillness is the Key, which debuts in bookstores this week.

In this episode of Deviate, Ryan and Rolf talk about "Big Idea" books, how Ryan's philosophical trilogy of books came about, and how word-of-mouth works better than categorization in helping people find your books (3:00); how storytelling is better than dry analysis when it comes to writing books on a topic like Stoicism, and how writing for general audiences differs from writing for "elite" audiences (16:00); why ancient ideas and examples are often more dependable than contemporary ones, and why it's good to read as diversely as possible (25:00); what a "commonplace book" is, and how it can fuel your creative life (32:30); the difference in focus between the research phase of a book and the writing phase, and how to best plan and structure books (48:00); Ryan's writing habits, how he balances his day with non-writing tasks, and the importance of maintaining momentum (1:01:30); and the process of how he decides on which themes and projects to explore next (1:06:00).

Books mentioned: * The 4-Hour Work Week, by Tim Ferriss * Vagabonding, by Rolf Potts * The 48 Laws of Power, by Robert Greene * The History of the Peloponnesian War, by Thucydides * Cash: The Autobiography, by Johnny Cash * The War of Art, by Steven Pressfield * Range, by David Epstein * The Daily Stoic, by Ryan Holiday * The Hero With a Thousand Faces, by Joseph Campbell

Notable links: * Big Idea Book Bootcamp (writing class) * Tim Ferriss book club * How a book on stoicism became wildly popular at every level of the NFL (article) * How And Why To Keep A “Commonplace Book” (article) * Ronald Reagan Presidential Library and Museum * Marina Abramovich "The Artist is Present" * A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood (Mister Rogers movie) * Stanford Prison Experiment (psychology experiment) * Dorothy Day (American Catholic social activist)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"In American Beauty, Lester Burnham's rebellions seem adolescent and immature because that's all he's got. His world is so stultifying that you can either be a walking-dead adult or a footloose and fancy-free teenager. In retrospect that seems sad rather than triumphant." --Kevin Smokler

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kevin talk about how American Beauty, a movie that seemed dazzling when it was released, eventually came to feel less original and interesting (2:50); which elements in the movie are still effective after 20 years (8:00); how the movie's sour take on suburbia was not all that original by 1999 (16:30); how Lester Burnham's epiphany at the end of the movie feels adolescent and regressive (30:00); the ways that many of the movie's themes don't fully jibe with the human motivations of the characters (38:30); and the movie's take on the isolations of American masculinity (50:00).

Kevin Smokler (@weegee) is a writer, public speaker, critic, and author of Brat Pack America and Practical Classics. He speaks on the future of media and culture and his written work has appeared in such publications as the Los Angeles Times, Buzzfeed, and Vulture. He previously appeared as a guest on Episode 33 of Deviate, Why 1980s coming-of-age movies matter., and Episode 60, Celebrating the best travel movies ever.

Notable Links: * Sam Mendes (director) * Alan Ball (screenwriter) * Annette Bening (actress) * Kevin Spacey (actor) * Double Indemnity (1944 movie) * Sunset Boulevard (1950 movie) * Revolutionary Road (2008 movie) * The Ice Storm (1997 movie) * ...Baby One More Time (Britney Spears song) * Six Feet Under (TV series) * Fahrenheit 451 (dystopian novel) * Wesley Morris on Deviate * Jack Tripper (fictional TV character) * Blue Velvet (1986 David Lynch movie) * Chris Cooper (actor) * Allison Janney (actress) * Amy Fisher (1992 attempted murder suspect) * In the Company of Men (1997 movie)

This episode is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"The importance of Do the Right Thing out-lives all of the arguments against it. It embarrasses its critics, in a lot of ways. Spike Lee really is having the last laugh on this one." --Wesley Morris

In this episode of Deviate, Wesley and Rolf talk about what Do the Right Thing is about, and why it's a unique and extraordinary movie (2:45); how the characters are both sympathetic and unsympathetic, and how the movie isn't trying to teach a tidy lesson (12:00); how Spike Lee's story ideas from the 1980s feel relevant to social conditions in the 2010s (17:30); how the movie is more like Greek tragedy than a raw realistic depiction of its setting and story (23:00); the conditions of filmmaking for black artists in the 1980s (28:00); the way Do the Right Thing attracted a kind of panic from social critics when it came out (33:15); Spike Lee's strategic use of powerful music, visuals, and blocking in the movie (37:00); the fact the Barack and Michelle Obama saw this movie on their first date, and how Spike Lee wanted the movie to be classified as a One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest-style comedy (41:00); Rolf's interest in and personal experience with the film living in Wichita in 1989 (45:45); and the narrative specificity of the details in the film, and how they parallel real-life events (49:45).

Wesley Morris (@Wesley_Morris) the Pulitzer Prize-winning critic at large for the New York Times. Formerly the co-host of the Grantland podcast “Do You Like Prince Movies?”, he now co-hosts the “Still Processing” podcast with Times colleague Jenna Wortham. He previously appeared on Episode 41 of Deviate, Wesley Morris on podcast-fame, sports, and performing blackness in America.

Notable links: * Spike Lee (film director) * Do the Right Thing ( 1989 Spike Lee film) * She's Gotta Have It (1986 Spike Lee film) * School Daze (1988 Spike Lee film) * Bed-Stuy (Brooklyn neighborhood) * Tawana Brawley rape allegations (legal case) * Barry Michael Cooper (writer/producer) * Do the Right Thing, by Spike Lee (film journal) * Death of Sandra Bland (police-custody incident) * John Savage (actor) * Rosie Perez (actress and choreographer) * Driving Miss Daisy (1989 movie) * sex, lies, and videotape (1989 movie) * Central Park jogger case (rape case) * Stanley Crouch (cultural critic) * Fight the Power (Public Enemy song) * Southside with You (movie) * Death of Eric Garner (police incident)

This episode is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"That's one of the great things about walking-based travel in Europe: You get away from expectations. When you plan a traditional sightseeing trip you already have an idea in your mind of what you're going to see. But when you just let the trail unfold you can let things go -- and let things come to you -- and really soak in the culture in a different way." --Cassandra Overby

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Cassandra talk about Cassandra's early decision to focus on trekking-travel rather than standard tourism in Europe (3:30); how trekking in Europe is cheaper, more immersive, and more social than American trekking (11:30); which classic European trails make for "bucket list" hikes, and how to find and research less-famous ones (19:00); strategies for combining hikes with public transportation, choosing the best time of year to hike, preparing physically for the journey, and whether to hike alone or with a companion (26:00); how to reserve trails, facilities, luggage-transfers, and guides in advance (32:45); useful apps, navigation aids, guidebooks, and gear for trekking in Europe (38:00); and how to use mountain huts and plan "rest days" on treks (52:30).

Cassandra Overby is the author of Explore Europe on Foot: Your Complete Guide to Planning a Cultural Hiking Adventure, which aims to help travelers find ways to discover Europe without depending on cars, buses and trains. The book provides overviews of fifteen long-distance trails (and day hikes) in Belgium, France, Italy, Germany, Great Britain, Morocco, Portugal, Spain, Switzerland, and Turkey, with itineraries that range from one to fifteen days.

Notable links: * Alpine Pass Route (long-distance hiking trail in Switzerland) * Alpenhorn (musical instrument) * Dirndl (traditional Alpine dress) * Tour du Mont Blanc (long-distance hiking trail in Switzerland/Italy/France) * Tour of the Lake District (English walking route) * Camino de Santiago (network of pilgrims' ways into Spain) * GR Routes (network of long-distance footpaths in Europe) * EuroVelo (network of long-distance cycling routes in Europe) * English Way (Camino de Santiago pilgrimage route) * Alsace Wine Route (hiking route through the Alsace region in France) * WhatsApp (text-messaging app) * GPS Tracks (navigation app) * Gaia GPS (navigation app) * Trekking poles (hiking accessory) * Half-board (accommodation rate) * Mountain hut (trekking shelter)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"I will wake up at 7am and think to myself, 'Why am I doing this?' But then I get on the trail and I'm meeting people and seeing things that are just so beautiful, that I never would have seen unless I was walking. When the day ends I'm always thankful that I made that decision to get up and just go." --Forrest Mallard

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Forrest talk about how they know each other, and how Forrest got into travel (4:00); the time-honored tradition of walking, and why hiking is a fantastic way to travel in and experience other countries (9:45); the tradition of the Camino de Santiago, and Forrest's humbling early experiences with international trekking on the West Highland Way (21:30); Forrest's further adventures and counterintuitive tips for how to prepare and what to pack on a trek (37:00); the appeal of hiking in Slovenia (45:00); and advice for getting started, saving money, meeting people, and getting in touch with yourself while trekking (49:00).

Forrest Mallard is the founder of Tramposaurus Treks, a camping and adventure-travel planning community that aims to show people just how accessible, affordable and doable international hiking excursions can be. Forrest currently splits his time between Dubai and far-flung destinations and backcountry trekking trails around the world, including – in recent months – Pakistan, Hunza Hanging Bridge, Fairy Meadows, Chilas, Granada, and Valencia.

Notable Links: * Werner Herzog on "The Portal" (podcast episode) * Flâneur (French concept of an urban wanderer) * Camino de Santiago (pilgrimage route in Spain) * The Pilgrimage, by Paulo Coelho (book) * West Highland Way (long-distance path in Scotland) * Europe on a Shoestring (travel guidebook) * Caminho Português (Camino route starting in Portugal) * Camiño francés (Camino route starting in France) * Slovenian Mountain Hiking Trail (long-distance trail in the Julian Alps) * Alpine Association of Slovenia (hiking club) * Simien Mountains National Park (Ethiopian hiking area) * Tiger Leaping Gorge (Chinese hiking area) * Torres del Paine National Park (Chilean hiking area) * Hostelworld.com (lodging booking service)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“The boundaries of life are responsible for the beauty of life.” – Pico Iyer

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Pico discuss the people we become when we travel (4:00); what led Pico to travel (10:00); travel in the age of technology (20:00); finding the remarkable in the unremarkable (32:00); ping pong as a metaphor for life (40:00); the importance of impermanence (50:00); and the idea of being versus becoming (1:01:00).

Pico Iyer (@PicoIyer) is a novelist, essayist, and one of the most influential travel writers of his generation. He is known for such books as Video Night in Kathmandu and The Lady and the Monk, with many of his works receiving significant critical acclaim. He has also written for such publications as The New York Times, Time, and Harper’s. For more about Pico, check out http://picoiyerjourneys.com/

Notable Links: * A Beginner’s Guide to Japan, by Pico Iyer (book) * Autumn Light, by Pico Iyer (book) * Walt Whitman (poet / essayist) * John Muir (naturalist) * Herman Melville (writer) * Let’s Go (travel guide series) * Salman Rushdie (writer) * John Burroughs (naturalist / writer)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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In this special, destination-oriented episode of Deviate, Rolf talks to his 2019 students at the Paris Writing Workshop about ways to experience Paris in a slow and counterintuitive way.

This episode is designed to be used in tandem with TripScout, a travel app designed to help people dream about – and plan, in a concrete way – journeys to destinations worldwide. The app provides a portal for visual discovery by featuring the best articles and videos from top publishers and local experts for each destination. Every restaurant, café, shop, or site featured within the content is mapped to one of TripScout’s 100 million+, constantly updated points of interest. With one tap, travelers can save anything they discover, allowing them to stitch together their perfect trip into a full, personalized itinerary that is connected to a downloadable offline map. More information at Deviate's TripScout link.

Paris attractions mentioned: * Musée Bourdelle (art museum) * Champ de Mars (park) * Jardin du Luxembourg (park) * Château de Vincennes (castle) * Bois de Vincennes (park) * Notre-Dame de Paris fire (2019 incident) * Panthéon (monument) * Bateaux Mouches (boat rides) * Saint-Julien-le-Pauvre (church) * Shakespeare and Company (bookstore) * Classical music concerts in Paris (guide) * BHV: Bazar de l'Hôtel de Ville (department store) * 5th arrondissement of Paris (neighborhood) * Banh Mi Descartes (Rue Descartes eatery) * The Firemen’s Ball: A Unique Bastille Day Celebration (article) * Monnaie de Paris (money museum) * Paris clamps down on electric scooters (article)

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“If you think your thing is to write for an audience, write for yourself first and see what comes up.” – Lavinia Spalding

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Lavinia discuss the benefits of keeping a journal, and doing it by hand (3:00); the importance of writing what you feel rather than what you do (16:00); the beauty of spending time with your journal as a way of hearing yourself (24:00); and practical strategies for starting and keeping a journal (34:00).

Lavinia Spalding (@laviniaspalding) is a travel writer and series editor of The Best Women’s Travel Writing. She has author of Writing Away, and co-author of With a Measure of Grace and This Immeasurable Place. For more about Lavinia, check out http://laviniaspalding.com/.

Notable Links: * Bird by Bird, by Anne Lamott (book) * Writing Down the Bones, but Natalie Goldberg (book) * Four Seasons in Rome, by Anthony Doerr (book) * Stolen, by Lavinia Spalding (essay) * A Sort of Homecoming, By Ivana Was (essay) * Lonely Planet’s Best Places in Asia Pacific (guide) * Find New Orleans’s Soul at These 6 Mini-Museums, by Lavinia Spalding (article) * Meet the Revolutionary Women of Flamenco Guitar, by Lavinia Spalding (article) * Journaling for Mental Health, by University of Rochester Medical Center (article) * 7 Health Benefits Of Writing And Journaling, From Treating Asthma To Depression, by JR Thorpe (article) * The Benefits of Journaling, by UW Health (article)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“It’s incumbent upon any screenwriter, who is adapting anything, to extract the moments and characters and events for a thematic purpose first and then for plot.” – Kathy DeMarco Van Cleve

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kathy discuss the reason for the popularity of The Shawshank Redemption, including the script (3:00); the importance of good acting within the film (14:00); the skilled directing of Frank Darabont (26:00); Stephen King and the story behind the movie (32:00); and how watching movies has changed and whether this film will stand the test of time (45:00).

Kathy DeMarco Van Cleve is a novelist, screenwriter, film producer, and teacher at the University of Pennsylvania in their Cinema Studies department. Her most recent book, Never Caught: The Washingtons' Relentless Pursuit of Their Runaway Slave, Ona Judge, came out in January. For more about Kathy, check out http://www.kathyvancleve.com/

Notable Links: * The Shawshank Redemption (film) * Stephen King (author) * Rita Hayworth and Shawshank Redemption (novella) * Paris Writing Workshop (writing workshop) * Frank Darabont (director) * The Body, by Stephen King (novella) * Different Seasons, by Stephen King (collection of novellas) * Stand by Me (film) * Pulp Fiction (film) * Bartleby, the Scrivener, by Herman Melville (short story) * The Great Gatsby, by F. Scott Fitzgerald * On Writing, by Stephen King (book) * Brokeback Mountain (film) * The Godfather (film) * Chinatown (film) * Raging Bull (film)

This episode is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“It’s a recurring theme within the movie – the idea of taking these heightened, dramatic moments and mining humor out of the ordinariness of them.” – Jason Bailey

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jason discuss the 1990s and the early influence of Pulp Fiction (3:45); set the context for the plot of the movie (15:30); deconstruct the first third of the plot (28:00); explore the idea of fate and one of the most disturbingly iconic scenes of the 1990s (55:00); and answer the big picture questions and major themes of the movie (1:15:00).

Jason Bailey (@jasondashbailey) is an author and film critic, whose writing has appeared in such publications as the New York Times, Vice, and Rolling Stone. He is also the author of four books, including Pulp Fiction: The Complete Story of Quentin Tarantino’s Masterpiece. He is a former regional independent film director, whose work includes My Day in the Barrel.

Notable Links: * True Romance (film) * Reservoir Dogs (film) * Jackie Brown (film) * Easy Rider (film) * Easy Riders, Raging Bulls, by Peter Biskind (book) * Psycho (film) * Deliverance (film) * Leon: The Professional (film) * American Boy: A Profile of Steven Prince (documentary, by Martin Scorsese) * El Mariachi (film) * Go (film) * John August (screenwriter) * Scriptnotes (podcast) * Misirlou, by Dick Dale (song) * My Sharona, by The Knack (song) * Beastie Boys (band) * Paul’s Boutique (album, by Beastie Boys) * A Tribe Called Quest (hip hop group) * Down and Dirty Pictures, by Peter Biskind (book) * Screenplay: The Foundations of Screenwriting, by Syd Field (book)

This episode is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

This episode of Deviate is also brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Don’t miss an opportunity to travel, if you have a chance. Decades from now you will always look back and be thankful you did” – Matt Kepnes

In this bonus episode of Deviate, Rolf and Matt discuss 19 lessons Matt has learned from a decade of travel. The entire list is included below.

19 Lessons from a Decade of Travel 1. It’s not that hard 2. You learn a lot of life skills 3. You are never alone 4. You meet some of your closest friends traveling 5. Relationships come and go on the road 6. But chase the ones you like 7. It’s good to try new things 8. Be adventurous 9. There is no such thing as a mistake 10. Don’t be cheap 11. That being said, don’t be wasteful 12. Drop the guidebook 13. It’s never too late to change 14. Relax 15. Learn more languages (seriously) 16. Wear more sunscreen 17. People are good 18. There’s no such thing as must-see 19. Just go

Matt Kepnes (@nomadicmatt), commonly known as "Nomadic Matt," is a travel blogger and the New York Times bestselling author of Travel the World on $50 a Day. He is also the founder of TravelCon, a yearly conference to help people learn the skills needed to develop a profitable and sustainable career in the travel industry. His newest book, Ten Years a Nomad, debuted this month.

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“It’s the serendipity of travel that makes it so amazing” – Matt Kepnes

In this episode of Deviate, Matt discusses what led him to travel, and adapting to life on the road (3:00); planning his first trip, and the early days of travel (13:00); the impact of travel, and the concept of being "interesting" (21:00); travel friendships and relationships (30:00); travel obstacles (39:00); and his evolution as a traveler over the course of a decade.

Matt Kepnes (@nomadicmatt), commonly known as "Nomadic Matt," is a travel blogger and the New York Times bestselling author of Travel the World on $50 a Day. He is also the founder of TravelCon, a yearly conference to help people learn the skills needed to develop a profitable and sustainable career in the travel industry. His newest book, Ten Years a Nomad, debuted this month.

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"For too long I had thought adventure was life. But, actually, life is the adventure. And that is not the same thing at all." --Alastair Humphreys

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Alastair Humphreys discuss Alastair's history as an adventurer, beginning with his four-year bicycle trip around the world (3:00); Alastair's new book, his fear of performing, and his effort to be vulnerable (10:00); the way the notion of adventure changes as he got older and become a father (16:00); the specifics of walking across Spain with no money and a violin (23:00); the stakes of adventure the 21st century, and the joys to be found the journey (38:00); the task of making the most of the time you're given in life (44:00); and the definition of microadventures, how they can enhance your life (48:30).

Alastair Humphreys (@Al_Humphreys) is an English adventurer, author and motivational speaker. He is responsible for the rise of the idea of the microadventure – short, local, accessible adventures. Alastair was the National Geographic Adventurer of the Year in 2012, and has written nine books, including Microadventures: Local Discoveries for Great Escapes (2014), and My Midsummer Morning, which came out in May.

Notable Links: * Busking (street performance) * As I Walked Out One Midsummer Morning, by Laurie Lee (book) * Kleos (Greek concept) * Achilles (Greek Trojan War hero) * Pico Iyer (travel writer) * Nonverbal communication (communication strategy) * Digital detox (organized break from electronics) * Microadventure (local travel initiative)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"In the United States, failure is seen as a sin. In New Orleans we treasure our successes but we embrace life on its way down as well. Our failures come back home, and are afforded a respect they wouldn't get anywhere else." —John Biguenet

In this episode of Deviate, John Biguenet and Rolf discuss the first three centuries of New Orleans history and how history influences the city today (2:45); how Hurricane Katrina affected the city and its residents in 2005 and the months/years after (9:30); why so many locals decided to stay in New Orleans after Katrina, and what makes the city special (30:30); local and national institutional shortcomings, and lessons learned (and unlearned) after Katrina (38:20); and the social and environmental factors that will put New Orleans at risk in coming years (48:00).

John Biguenet (@JohnBiguenet) is an author, playwright, and social commentator. He is the author of ten books, including the short-story collection The Torturer's Apprentice, and the novel Oyster. His poems, stories, plays, and essays have been reprinted or cited in The Best American Mystery Stories, The O. Henry Awards, The Best American Short Stories, Best Music Writing, and various other anthologies. He is currently the Robert Hunter Distinguished University Professor at Loyola University in New Orleans. Named a New York Times guest columnist after Hurricane Katrina in 2005, Biguenet chronicled his return to New Orleans amid efforts to rebuild the city.

Notable Links: * History of New Orleans * Louisiana Purchase (1803) * Robert R. Livingston (diplomat) * Hurricane Katrina (2005) * United States Army Corps of Engineers * Federal Emergency Management Agency * Criticism of government response to Hurricane Katrina

This episode is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“What changed in my travels was my own realization of what our impact is as travelers." – Pegi Vail

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Pegi Vail discuss how art changes the way places are visited (3:00); backpacker culture and what can go wrong with it (14:00); the impact of travel on local people and promotion of responsible tourism (25:00); and how to protect local culture (38:00).

Pegi Vail is an anthropologist and filmmaker who directed the documentary Gringo Trails. She is also a sustainable-travel consultant whose academic work has focused on visual anthropology, Indigenous media, and the role of storytelling to the political economy of tourism in the developing world. She is the Co-Director of New York University’s Center for Media, Culture, and History. Vail is a founding member, curator, and featured storyteller of the popular not-for-profit storytelling collective, The Moth.

Notable Links: * Yossi Ghinsberg (adventurer) * Jungle, by Yossi Ghinsberg (book) * The Beach (film) * Lawrence of Arabia (film) * Eat Pray Love (film) * Under the Tuscan Sun (film) * Wild, by Cheryl Strayed (book) * Costas Christ (travel writer) * The Venice Syndrome (documentary) * Tyson Mowarin (filmmaker)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode of Deviate is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“The reason to go to a place is not to have just been to that place...travel is not just a bunch of checklists.” – Seth Kugel

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Seth Kugel discuss the danger of relying on TripAdvisor and the importance of getting off the beaten path (3:00); travelers versus tourists and the concept of organic travel (16:00); and Bucket Lists and the idea of authenticity (48:00).

Seth Kugel (@sethkugel) is a travel writer, freelance journalist, and host of the Amigo Gringo YouTube channel. He was the Frugal Traveler columnist for the New York Times from 2010 to 2016, and he is most recently the author of the book Rediscovering Travel: A Guide for the Globally Curious. For more on Seth, check out his website http://sethkugel.com/

Notable Links: * The Tourist, by Dean MacCannell (book) * Abroad, by Paul Fussell (book) * Booking.com (website and application) * Maps.me (application)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Before I do anything else, I ask myself what is the deepest truth about the story that I’m telling.” – Bettina Gilois

Bettina Gilois (@BettinaGilois) is an award-winning screenwriter and author who has been writing in Hollywood for over twenty years. Her screen credits include McFarland, USA and Glory Road.

In this episode of Deviate, Bettina discuss writing about real people (3:00); Bettina’s career path and the importance of perseverance (23:00); the importance of simplicity in storytelling (40:00); why certain stories are worth telling (55:00); and the craft of writing (1:14:00).

Notable Links: * Bettina's Chapman University page (includes links to craft-advice essays) * Thomas Kinkaid (painter) * Billion Dollar Painter, by Bettina Gilois (book) * Andy Warhol (artist) * Talking Heads (band) * Ari Emanuel (talent agent) * Twister (film) * Robert Durst (real estate heir) * Rick Hall (record producer)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Art is a human being wanting to express ‘I was,’ that ‘I existed.’” – John E. Roach

John E. Roach is a television and film producer and screenwriter, who co-wrote the screenplay for The Straight Story. He is president of Roach, a video production and film production company.

In this episode of Deviate, John discuss the origins of The Straight Story (3:00); Midwest culture and sensibilities (17:00); age and the World War II generation (33:00); and writing the character of Alvin Straight (38:00).

Notable Links: * Twin Peaks (television show) * David Lynch (filmmaker) * The Elephant Man (film) * Citizen Soldiers, by Stephen E. Ambrose (book) * The Treasure of Sierra Madre (film) * Spartacus (film) * Richard Farnsworth (actor)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“We are all one seat away on the train from meeting the person that could change our lives.” – Kevin Smokler

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kevin Smokler do a deep-dive on travel movies, starting with a discussion of The Beach (2:00) before delving into what constitutes a travel movie (12:00); and their top travel and road movies, focusing on Into the Wild, Lost in Translation, and Before Sunrise (1:01:00).

Kevin Smokler (@weegee) is a writer, public speaker, critic, and author of Brat Pack America and Practical Classics. He speaks on the future of media and culture and his written work has appeared in such publications as the Los Angeles Times, Buzzfeed, and Vulture. He previously appeared as a guest on Episode 33 of Deviate, Why 1980s coming-of-age movies matter.

Notable Links: * Before Sunrise (movie) * Lost in Translation (movie) * Sofia Coppola (writer-director) * My Bloody Valentine (band) * Jesus and Mary Chain (band) * Into the Wild (movie) * John Krakauer (author) * Christopher McCandless (subject of Into the Wild) * Sean Penn (director of Into the Wild) * Almost Famous (movie) * Thelma & Louise (movie) * Trainspotting (movie) * Easy Rider (movie) * Motorcycle Diaries (movie) * Walter Salles (film director) * Southside with You (movie) * Midnight Express (movie) * Hostel (movie) * The Straight Story (movie) * The Way (movie) * Stand by Me (movie) * Ferris Bueller’s Day Off (movie) * Grizzly Man (movie) * The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert (movie) * Freaks and Geeks (television show) * Danny Boyle (director) * Roger Ebert (film critic) * Travels with Charley (travel book) * John Steinbeck (author) * Che Guevara (revolutionary)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode of Deviate is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“The movie does feel so dated…and yet, there's a part of me that can relate to traveling across the world, landing somewhere, finding yourself surrounded by what’s all too familiar, and wanting something more. I think that sort of theme is still probably as relevant as ever.” – Jim Benning

This episode of Deviate focuses on the 2000 Leonardo DiCaprio movie that was based on Alex Garland's book, The Beach. Rolf begins by reading his essay Storming the Beach (6:00), followed by a discussion with Jim Benning on post-modern travel and the differences between the book and movie (42:00); the impact of social media, and previously, Lonely Planet, on travel (1:08:00); and authenticity of travel in 2019 (1:35:00).

Jim Benning (@jimbenning) is a travel writer and co-founder of the online travel magazine World Hum, which eventually was acquired by the Travel Channel. His work has appeared in such publications as The Washington Post, The Los Angeles Times, BBC.com, and National Geographic Adventure. Jim now serves as editor-in-chief of Texas Journey and as a features editor of Westways for AAA publishing. For more about Jim, check out http://www.jimbenning.net.

Notable Links: * Marco Polo Didn’t Go There, by Rolf Potts (collection of travel stories) * A spy on “The Beach”, by Rolf Potts (travel dispatch) * Live from the trans-global Beach Nation, by Rolf Potts (travel dispatch) * The Significance of Salon Travel, by Jim Benning (article) * Bill Bryson (author) * Salon (online magazine) * Don George (writer and editor) * Alex Garland (writer and director) * Andrew Macdonald (film producer) * Lonely Planet (guide book publisher) * DiCaprio Swims With the Plankton in Paradise, by Elvis Mitchell (film review) * Khao San Road (Bangkok backpacker ghetto) * The Place to Disappear, by Susan Orlean (article) * The Same River Twice: Bangkok in Three Acts (Rolf on Khao San Road in 2010) * Thailand bay made popular by 'The Beach' to remain closed for two more years (article) * Banana Pancake Trail (travel route) * Legend (Bob Marley and the Wailers album) * Henry Rollins (musician) * Six random insights from Henry Rollins’ 2018 Travel Slideshow * Tamarindo, Costa Rica (beach town) * Endless Summer II (movie)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode of Deviate is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Gun owners love their children too and don’t like this situation either.” – Dave Cullen

Dave Cullen (@DaveCullen) is a journalist and the New York Times best-selling author of Columbine and Parkland. Dave has written for such publications as Vanity Fair, the New York Times, and Buzzfeed, and is known for his journalism on school shootings.

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Dave talk about the myths surrounding school shootings and common misconceptions within journalism (2:00); the response to Parkland and how Dave became a professionalized public-shooting expert (14:00); and gun control in America (30:00).

Notable Links: * Columbine High School shooting * Stoneman Douglas High School shooting * Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting * David Hogg (author and activist) * Emma Gonzalez (activist) * Mary Ellen O’Toole (author and former FBI profiler)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Some of the most character-building and hilarious stories come from situations that did not necessarily work out according to plan.” – Sarah Von Bargen

Sarah Von Bargen (@yesandyesblog) is a writer, teacher, social media consultant, and course-creator. For more about Sarah, check out https://yesandyes.org/, where she is editor-in-chief, or her Instagram.

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Sarah talk about personality types and aligning of values (3:00); why traveling light is important (9:00); Sarah’s most commonly received travel-related questions, and navigating the fear of travel (28:00); advice for female travelers (41:00); and taking the experience of travel back home with you (56:00).

Notable Links: * Myers-Briggs (personality “test”) * Numbeo.com (website) * Livability.com (website) * Bank Boost (book and course) * Sarah von Bargen is here to help you correct your bad self-help habits (podcast)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Enjoy reallocating your energy into the experience [when you travel with no bags], because experience is the medium of our lives.” – Jonathan Yevin

Jonathan Yevin is a travel writer known for his minimalist approach to traveling. He is recognized as a pioneer of “no-baggage” travel, having embarked on many voyages around the world with only a passport, money, phone, and toothbrush. He has written for Rough Guides, Fodor’s, Frommer’s, Conde Nast Traveler, Outside, Matador Travel, and been profiled by Lonely Planet, Financial Times, U.S. News & World Report, Travel & Leisure, Details and Maxim.

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf starts by speaking with show producer Justin Glow about their experiences together in traveling with no luggage in 2010 (3:00) before interviewing Jonathan Yevin about his first trip without baggage and the difficulties he faced (12:00); his basic no-baggage “kit” and what not to bring (21:00); the philosophical underpinning of his minimalist travel approach (43:00); and strategies and tips for people getting started with travel minimalism (48:00).

Notable Links: * Rolf's 2010 No Baggage Challenge blog * No Baggage Videos, produced by Justin Glow, from 2010 * LG V20 (phone) * Rolf's 2015 interview with Jonathan Yevin * Q&A with Jonathan Yevin, no-luggage traveler (2010 interview) * Why This Man Travels Without Luggage (2016 CNN Traveler interview)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“The secret of the bucket list is that what’s on it doesn’t matter, because the doors that will open up once you’re out looking for your bucket list item will be more amazing than anything you could have dreamt up at home.” – Rolf Potts

Sean Keener (@SEKeener) is the Cofounder and CEO of the BootsnAll Travel Network, a travel media network focused on planning complex, multi-stop, round-the-world travel. He is also the Chairman of Airtreks, a travel network specializing in multi-stop international travel.

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf reads his essay "5 ways indie travel has changed (and stayed the same) since 1999" (8:00) before speaking with Sean about how travel has changed over the past 20 years and the impact of technology (24:00); the benefits of travel and the importance of failure (48:00); and photography and the selfie generation (54:00).

Notable Links: * Airtreks (travel company) * Maps.me (offline map app) * On Photography, by Susan (collection of essays) * Temi (speech to text transcription software) * Lonely Planet (travel guide) * Kevin Kelly (editor / publisher) * Leaves of Grass, by Walt Whitman (book) * Humans of New York (website) * Couchsurfing (travel website) * Anthem Soul, by Rolf Potts (essay) * Writing Away, by Lavinia Spalding (book)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“The challenge is that we have to become philosophers ourselves, in a way. We have to learn to ask better questions and more questions than we had to before.” – Monica McCarthy

Monica McCarthy (@MissMMcCarthy) is an actress, writer, and host of The Happier Hour podcast and live show, which aims to make philosophy useful and accessible. For more about Monica, you can check our her website or watch her TedX talk, Philosophy: The Life Hack of the Future.

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf speaks with Monica about the “definition” of philosophy (3:00); where people should start when seeking to embrace philosophy (16:00); travel as a metaphor for discussing philosophy (22:00); Western philosophy and common assumptions about it (32:00); and key takeaways from Monica's podcast (50:00).

Notable Links: * Tim Ferriss (author / entrepreneur) * Ryan Holiday (author) * Alain de Botton (author / philosopher) * Socrates (philosopher) * Søren Kierkegaard (philosopher) * Ludwig Wittgenstein (philosopher) * Simone de Beauvoir (philosopher) * Jean-Paul Sartre (philosopher) * Friedrich Nietzsche (philosopher) * Albert Camus (philosopher) * David Hume (philosopher) * Epicurus (philosopher) * Avicenna (philosopher) * Stoicism (school of philosophy) * Existentialism (school of philosophy) * Nero (Roman emperor) * Massimo Pigliucci (professor of Philosophy at CUNY-City College) * At the Existentialist Café, by Sarah Bakewell (book) * The Good Place (television show) * Trolley Problem (thought experiment) * The School of Life (educational company)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“In the end, you’ll have this [psychedelic] experience that people paint about, people write about, and musicians compose songs about.” – Ari Shaffir

Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comedian, writer, podcaster, and actor. He is the current host of the Skeptic Tank podcast. For more information on Ari, visit his website, where you can read the Shroomfest Primer discussed in this episode.

In the Season Two premiere of Deviate, Rolf reflects on his first psilocybin mushroom experience with Ari (13:00); his view on how mushrooms enhance appreciation of travel and living in the moment (59:00); the reaction to one's surroundings on psychedelics, and how setting matters (1:19:00); the language of psychedelics and journaling (1:30:00); and the idea of performance, along with final reflections (2:06:00).

Notable Links: * Tim Ferriss (author / entrepreneur) * The Joe Rogan Experience (podcast) * Ari Shaffir’s Skeptic Tank #353: Modern Hippie, with Tim Ferriss (podcast) * Michael Pollan (professor / author) * How to Change your Mind, by Michael Pollan (book) * Tim Ferriss Show (Episode 340) interview with Paul Stamets (podcast) * Tim Ferriss Show (Episode 365) interview with Michael Pollan (podcast) * Timothy Leary (psychologist) * Aldous Huxley (writer / philosopher) * The Everything in the Whole Wide World Museum, by Norman Stiles (book)

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“The hashtag level of social media discourse can be really frustrating. It tends to bend narratives toward the hashtag slogan. But when we start sweeping everything into the same category, we begin to trivialize the core issue.” – Rolf Potts

Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comedian, writer, podcaster, and actor. He is the current host of the podcast Skeptic Tank.

In the Season 1 Finale of Deviate, Rolf and Ari resume their conversation about magic mushrooms (7:00); discuss Ari’s strange bets and the experience of panhandling for money (17:00); reflect on lessons learned from the past year of podcasting (32:00); discuss the shortcomings of travel television (55:00); and explore self-mythology and society’s over-simplification of complex topics (1:07:00).

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Airtreks can help with your international flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The Airtreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, and can customize to fit your journey.

Visit https://www.airtreks.com/deviate/ and get a signed copy of Vagabonding when you book your first trip with Airtreks. Deviate episodes mentioned

• Bestselling author Tim Ferriss on how to create a successful podcast
• Comedian Ari Shaffir on ‘shrooms, hugging, and quitting smartphones
• Ari Shaffir on travel, memory, and the odd psychology of souvenirs
• Satanic backward masking changed 1980s rock (but not in the way you think)
• What it’s like to be a black police officer in America
• What it’s like to be a Latino police officer in America
• The weird and complicated history of America’s national anthem
• Punk icon Ian MacKaye on why we should question the official history of rock music
• Celebrating the best places to live (and the quest for home) in America
• Kink Doctor Dulcinea Pitagora on sex therapy, BDSM, and dominatrix work
• The way we grow food has been broken for 10,000 years (but we can fix it)
• Deviate Live in New York City: Travel Stories and Souvenirs
• White Zombie guitarist J. Yuenger on music, expat life, and long-term travel
• Kevin Kelly on the lost world of 1970s Asia (and why you should travel now)
• Andrew McCarthy on storytelling, celebrity, and how travel changed his life
• Paul Theroux on the art of listening, and the necessary obstacles of deep travel

Other links

• 20,000 Days On Earth (Nick Cave documentary)
• The Fountainhead, by Ayn Rand (book)
• Museum of Jurassic Technology
• Scientology Center
• Joe Rogan podcast
• Henry Rollins Travel Slideshow
• Punch Drunk Sports (podcast)
• Cal Fussman podcast
• How Mushrooms Can Save You (Tim Ferriss podcast episode)
• Lok lak (Cambodian beef dish)
• Osprey (backpack brand)
• Tortuga (backpack brand)
• Blundstone (footwear company)
• Evan Williams (bourbon brand)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"To me the term Beat was like, "Hey man I'm beat," after all night on Benzedrine. I never considered myself a Beat. But my first book was published by Ferlinghetti and they all arrived at my doorstep when I lived at Gough Street, so I guess I became a Beat by osmosis." —Charles Plymell

Charles Plymell is a poet, novelist, and small press publisher. Plymell has collaborated with and published many poets, writers, and artists, including principals of the Beat Generation. Benzedrine Highway, published in 2013, is an anthology of his best-known poetry and prose, including excerpts from his 1971 City Lights novel The Last of the Moccasins.

In this episode of Deviate, Charles and his wife Pamela Beach Plymell discuss their memories of (and interactions with) Jack Kerouac (4:55); Charley's upbringing in Dust Bowl-era Kansas, and his early road-trips to California (11:05); life as a young hood and hipster in Wichita (14:40); meeting and interacting with the Beats in San Francisco (19:20); rooming with Neal Cassady and Allen Ginsberg when Cassady was trying to write his own book (23:55); hosting Ginsberg during the poet's Wichita Vortex Sutra journey to Kansas in 1966 (30:50); publishing the first issue of R. Crumb's Zap Comix just before the Summer of Love (35:35); working at a teamster on the San Francisco docks, and getting his own novel published (39:50); and interacting with William S. Burroughs in the later years of the author's life (46:00).

For more information on Charley, check out his fan page at http://hipsterfansite.blogspot.com/.

Notable Links: * Beat Generation (literary movement) * Jack Kerouac (Beat author and poet) * William F. Buckley Jr. (conservative intellectual) * Firing Line (public affairs TV show) * Truman Capote (author and critic) * Hand on the Doorknob, by Charles Plymell (book) * Benzedrine and Dexedrine (amphetamine pills) * Neal Cassady (Beat Generation personality) * Allen Ginsberg (Beat poet) * The First Third, by Neal Cassady (book) * Lawrence Ferlinghetti (poet and publisher) * City Lights (independent bookstore) * Wichita Vortex Sutra, by Allen Ginsberg (poem) * "The Last Anti-War Poem," by Rolf Potts (essay) * Wichita Vortex (PBS documentary about the poem) * Robert Crumb (underground cartoonist) * Zap Comix (counterculture comic book series) * Summer of Love (1967 hippie event in San Francisco) * Human Be-in (Summer of Love event) * Featherbedding (hiring practice) * Johns Hopkins Writing Seminars (creative writing program) * William S. Burroughs (writer and artist) * The death of Joan Vollmer (Burroughs' wife) * Macbeth (Shakespeare play) * "Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow" (Macbeth soliloquy) * Sonnet 65 (Shakespeare poem) * "The "Priest" They Called Him" (Burroughs/Kurt Cobain collaboration) * "Nobody Rides For Free" by Grant Hart (music video)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“How do we become who we are in the world? We ask the world to teach us.” – Pam Houston

Pam Houston (@pam_houston) is an author and professor of English at the University of California, Davis. Her books include Cowboys Are My Weakness and Contents May Have Shifted, with her latest, Deep Creek, set for release in January 2019.

In this episode of Deviate, Pam discusses her interactions with writing students (2:30); living an non-traditional life (16:30); developing a notion of home (25:00); and how Pam’s life on the ranch affects her writing (34:00). The episode concludes with Rolf reading his short essay "Creating a new sense of home is part of the travel process."

For more information on Pam, check out her website at https://pamhouston.wordpress.com/

Notable Links: * Santa Fe Writers Workshop * "Some Kind of Calling," by Pam Houston (essay) * "Pam Houston on (Finally) Finding True Love" (essay) * Desert Solitaire, by Edward Abbey (book) * Pilgrim at Tinker Creek, by Annie Dillard (book) * My Antonia, by Willa Cather (novel) * Alice Munro (author) * Terry Tempest Williams (author) * The Meadow, by James Galvan (book) * West Fork Complex (2013 wildfire)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“I was unaware of my fear’s existence until the moment of its first absence.” – Andrew McCarthy

Andrew McCarthy (@AndrewTMcCarthy), who rose to fame as an actor during the 1980s John Hughes teen-movie era, is a television director, travel writer, and author of such books as The Long Way Home and Just Fly Away.

In this episode of Deviate, Andrew discusses his transition into travel writing (3:00); his journey on the Camino de Santiago and his relationship with fear (10:30); finding his voice as a writer, and the importance of asking for help on the road (21:00); balancing his career in entertainment business with his career as a writer (41:00); and how travel has changed through the years (50:00).

Notable Links: * Elmo’s Fire (film) * Less Than Zero (film) * Weekend at Bernie’s (film( * Gossip Girl (television show) * Molly Ringwald (actress) * Pretty in Pink (film) * Camino de Santiago (pilgrimage) * Travels, by Michael Crichton (book) * Off the Road, by Jack Hitt (book) * The Old Patagonian Express, by Paul Theroux (book) * Mark Twain (writer) * Albert Camus (philosopher) * Tracy Kidder (writer) * John Irving (writer) * Orange Is the New Black (television show) * Quiet, by Susan Cain (book)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“The act of creating is a way of stopping time.” – Major Jackson

Major Jackson (@Poet_Major) is an American poet, professor, and author of four collections of poetry: Roll Deep, Holding Company, Hoops, and Leaving Saturn. He currently serves as the Poetry Editor of the Harvard Review.

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Major discuss the changing perception of time and how creation leads to a deeper experience of time (2:00); poetry and the lessons it teaches us about life (23:00); and time as prison, the way we claim our freedom, and art as a means toward transcendence (39:00).

For more information on Major, check out his website at http://www.majorjackson.com/

Poems and books mentioned: * The Gutenberg Elegies, by Sven Birkerts (book) * "The World Is Too Much With Us" (poem by William Wordsworth) * "To the Virgins, to Make Much of Time" (poem by Robert Herrick) * "Ode: Intimations of Immortality" (Wordsworth poem) * "On Disappearing" (poem by Major Jackson) * "Stations" (poem by Stanley Moss) * Into the Mecca by Gwendolyn Brooks (book) * Jerusalem (poem by James Fenton) * Jerusalem, by Peter Cole (essay) * The Snow Leopard, by Peter Matthiessen (book) * "Lying in a Hammock at William Duffy’s Farm in Pine Island, Minnesota" (poem by James Wright)

Notable Links: * Paris Writing Workshop (summer creative writing course) * Dead Poets Society (film) * Carpe Diem (Latin aphorism) * Walt Whitman (poet) * Eastern State Penitentiary (former prison in Philadelphia) * Michel Foucault (philosopher) * True Detective (HBO TV series) * John Muir (naturalist) * Jack Kerouac (author) * Croesus (wealthy king from ancient times) * Seneca (philosopher) * Dazed and Confused (film) * Richard Linklater (writer and director) * Ingmar Bergman (director) * Cinéma vérité (documentary filmmaking style) * Film composer Rolfe Kent on Deviate (podcast episode)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Travel feels like a generational signifier the way rock music was when I was a kid. The whole idea of having experiences as opposed to accumulating stuff feels like this planetary alignment, the way rock was in the '70s.” – Jay Yuenger

Jay Yuenger (@JYuenger) is a rock guitarist best known for his work with the Grammy-nominated heavy metal band White Zombie.

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jay discuss Cuba and access to technology (3:00); J's White Zombie backstory, and his travels with the band (13:30); the rise in popularity of White Zombie and the evolution of travel (40:00); the breakup of the band and Jay’s post-band years spent traveling (50:00); and souvenirs (1:01:00)

For more information on Jay, check out his website or his Instagram account.

Notable Links: * Vagabonding, by Rolf Potts (book) * Taxi Driver (film) * Thunder Kiss ’65 (song, by White Zombie) * Anthony Bourdain (chef and travel documentarian) * The Practical Nomad, by Edward Hasbrouk (book) * Hardcore Punk (music genre) * Minor Threat (band) * Metallica (band) * Misfits (band) * Ramones (band) * Slayer (band) * Cro-Mags (band) * Suicidal Tendencies (band) * Danzig (band) * Headbangers Ball (television program) * 120 Minutes (television program) * Butthole Surfers (band) * Faith No More (band) * Get in the Van, by Henry Rollins (book) * The Smashing Pumpkins (band) * Fugazi (band) * Jane’s Addiction (band) * Walt Whitman (poet) * Kurt Vonnegut (author)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“I can’t imagine what the Trans-Siberian train would be like if you knew what time it was. That was the ongoing fun of the experience -- never really having any clue what time it was.” – Jonathan Arlan

Jonathan Arlan (@JonathanArlan) is the author of the book Mountain Lines: A Journey through the French Alps and a recent Tablet essay titled Off the Rails in Birobidzhan.

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jonathan discuss travel bucket lists (2:30); the Trans-Siberian experience, including being an American on the train (12:30); the passing of time on the railway (28:00); and a final evaluation of the journey (38:00).

For more information on Jonathan Arlan, check out his website at http://jonathanarlan.com/

Notable Links: * Trans-Siberian Handbook, by Bryn Thomas (guidebook) * Lonely Planet Trans-Siberian Railway (guidebook) * Real Russia (travel agency) * Monkeyshrine (Trans-Siberian travel agency) * The Man in Seat 61 (train-travel website)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“If there is any revelation to be gleaned from spending several days on a single train, it will come from the bizarre details that lurk beneath the mundanity of the trip itself.” – Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf reads his essay On the Trans-Siberian Express (2:00) and then recounts, with Jonathan Arlan, the story behind the story, discussing his approach to writing about his experiences on the Trans-Siberian railroad (1:17:00).

Jonathan Arlan (@JonathanArlan) is the author of the book Mountain Lines: A Journey through the French Alps and a recent Tablet essay titled Off the Rails in Birobidzhan.

Notable Links: * Marco Polo Didn’t Go There, by Rolf Potts (book) * Genghis Khan (historical figure) * David Foster Wallace (author) * In Xanadu, by William Dalrymple (book) * Naadam (festival) * Ulan-Ude (Russian city) * Elderhostel, i.e., Road Scholar (non-profit organization) * Hunter S. Thompson (journalist and author) * Douglas Coupland (author and artist) * Fyodor Dostoevsky (author) * William S. Burroughs (writer)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“It’s better for characters if their arc isn’t a straight line. You get to see how far they will go for something. You get to test them.” – Latoya Morgan

LaToya Morgan (@MorganicInk) is screenwriter who currently serves an executive producer on AMC’s Into the Badlands. Previously, she has worked on the shows Shameless and Turn. She is currently developing a drama for AMC based on Wesley Lowery’s best-selling book They Can’t Kill Us All.

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and LaToya talk about her early upbringing and influences (2:30); diversity on television (8:30); her decision to become a writer (15:00); the role of research versus personal experience in writing (28:00); the the experience of working in a writers' room (34:00); and managing work/life balance (48:00).

Notable Links: * Stephen King (author) * The Twilight Zone (television show) * Black Mirror (television show) * General Hospital (television show) * One Life to Live (television show) * Oprah (television personality / media executive) * Friday Night Lights (television show) * Mad Men (television show) * Game of Thrones (television show) * The X-Files (television show) * John Steinbeck (author) * American Film Institute * Charlie Chaplin (actor) * City Lights (film) * Final Draft (screenwriting software) * Melrose Place (television show) * Sunset Boulevard (film) * Warner Brothers Television Writers’ Workshop * Southland (television show)

Books mentioned: * Of Mice and Men, by John Steinbeck * The Grapes of Wrath, by John Steinbeck * Cannery Row, by John Steinbeck * The Art of Dramatic Writing, by Lajos Egri * Save the Cat, by Blake Snyder * The Hero’s Journey, by Joseph Campbell * Story, by Robert McKee * On Writing, by Stephen King * Outliers, by Malcolm Gladwell

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Punk is not a sound for me. It’s not a style of music. It’s not a look. It’s not even an attitude. For me punk is the free space: It’s the place where new ideas can be presented without having to hew to profit motives.” — Ian MacKaye

Ian MacKaye is the co-founder of Dischord Records and former front man for Fugazi and Minor Threat. He currently performs in the two-piece indie band The Evens with his partner Amy Farina. He curates an informal archive of the Washington DC hardcore and post-hardcore music scenes, including the Fugazi Live Series, an extensive online library of digitized concert recordings.

In this episode of Deviate Rolf and Ian discuss the "Nirvana moment" of the early 1990s, how new ideas find their way into music, and how lesser known acts influence the dynamic of popular culture (8:00); the task of archiving and preserving evidence of music that was created outside the commercial music industry (29:00); skateboarding and punk rock as lenses through which to see the world in a different way (45:30); and the lessons and experiences of traveling the world as a musician.

Notable links: * Our Band Could Be Your Life, by Michael Azerrad (2001 book) * Lipstick Traces: A Secret History of the 20th Century, by Greil Marcus (1989 book) * Get in the Van: On the Road With Black Flag, by Henry Rollins (1994 book) * “Why Do So Many Kids Think Fugazi is God?” 1993 Washington Post article * Henry Rollins’ 2018 KCRW interview with Ian MacKaye * Woodstock (documentary film) * The Vietnam War (Ken Burns TV documentary series) * Thích Quảng Đức (Vietnamese monk who died by self-immolation) * Phonograph cylinder (19th century recording technology) * Dada (early 20th century avant-garde art movement) * Rock & Roll Hall of Fame (museum)

Bands, musicians, and music mentioned: * Henry Rollins (vocalist, author, and performer) * Dave Grohl (rock musician) * Kurt Cobain (rock musician) * Ted Nugent (rock musician) * Jimi Hendrix (rock musician) * The Stooges (rock band) * Black Flag (hardcore punk band) * Bad Brains (hardcore punk band) * Lungfish (post-hardcore Dischord band from Baltimore) * Empire (post Generation X English punk band) * Dead Moon (DIY garage punk band fronted by Fred Cole) * Heatmiser (early 1990s Elliott Smith post-hardcore band) * The Wipers (1970s Portland punk band) * Greg Ginn and Chuck Dukowski (Black Flag band members) * “The Laughing Song” (late 19th century recording by George W. Johnson)

Look what my hero Ian Mackaye (Minor Threat/Fugazi) just found: a letter I wrote to him when I was 14! Haha! pic.twitter.com/Ak8gxZz5m6

— Foo Fighters (@foofighters) May 28, 2015

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"Social capital is as important as formal training when it comes to disaster response. We see in every event people who have never had emergency training playing critical roles." – Daniel Neely

Daniel Neely is the Manager of Community Resilience and Regional Recovery Manager at the Wellington (New Zealand) Region Emergency Management Office.

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Daniel discuss the importance of community relationships when it comes to responding to a disaster (4:00); emergency preparedness tips (8:00); disaster response strategies (13:00); and preparing for a disaster from both a personal and business perspective (19:00).

For more disaster preparedness information, check out https://www.ready.gov/ and https://getprepared.nz/

Notable Links: * “Teen who rescued 17 in Harvey flooding wins national Citizen Hero award” * Federal Emergency Preparedness Resources * FEMA (US Agency) * National Flood Insurance Program (FEMA program) * 100 Resilient Cities (Rockefeller program) * “How to Step Up in the Face of Disaster” (TED Talk) * “How to survive a disaster” (BBC article) * “Recovering from disasters” (Conversation article) * Neighborhood Empowerment Network (community resilience alliance) * Cajun Navy (volunteer group) * John Leach (survival psychologist) * Laurie Johnson (survival consultant)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

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“There’s nothing that will stop white people from trying to do some black shit. It’s fundamentally baked into every aspect of American popular culture. It is the first thing that we invented that was entirely ours — white people dressing as black people and entertaining other people.” — Wesley Morris

Wesley Morris (@Wesley_Morris) the Pulitzer Prize-winning critic at large for the New York Times. Formerly the co-host of the Grantland podcast “Do You Like Prince Movies?”, he now co-hosts the “Still Processing” podcast with Times colleague Jenna Wortham.

In this episode of Deviate Rolf and Wesley discuss the nature of podcast celebrity and how it differs from traditional celebrity (2:45); the stories that sports uniforms tell to the people who watch sports (23:00); the unique task of cultural criticism in the 21st century (30:00); the challenge of being seen as racially representational as a journalist and critic (40:15); and Wesley’s upcoming book about the invention of the performance of blackness in America (51:00).

Media personalities mentioned * Jenna Wortham (technology reporter and podcaster) * Roger Ebert (film critic) * Ta-Nehisi Coates (journalist and public intellectual) * Bill Simmons (sports columnist and podcaster) * Ira Glass (This American Life host) * Angelo Moore (lead-singer of Fishbone) * Lilly Singh (YouTube star) * Rebecca Black (YouTube star) * Emily Bazelon (journalist and podcaster) * Jordan Peele (film director and actor) * Ian MacKaye (DIY punk pioneer) * Rany Jazayerli (sports writer) * Roxane Gay (writer and commentator) * Spike Lee (filmmaker) * Sidney Poitier (actor and diplomat)

Books and articles mentioned * “The Misunderstood Genius of Russell Westbrook,” by Sam Anderson * “Bagginess, baseball bodies, and the post-steroid era,” by Wesley Morris * “Treme's Big Problem: Authenticity,” by Rolf Potts * “The Frustrating Unlikeability of Treme,” by Alex Pappademas * “‘Whitney,’ a Pop Music Tragedy, Is Sad, Strange and Dismaying,” By Wesley Morris * The Geto Boys (33 1/3), by Rolf Potts * To the Break of Dawn, by Jelani Cobb * “The Hug Heard Round the World,” (Malcolm Gladwell podcast episode)

Other notable links * Slate Political Gabfest (podcast) * UniWatch (sports uniform website) * Court tennis (archaic sport) * ABA/NBA merger (basketball league realignment) * Free Spirits (30 for 30 episode about the ABA) * Blaxploitation (1970s film subgenre) * Blackface minstrelsy (American entertainment form) * Stephen Foster (19th century songwriter) * Post Malone (rapper) * Chromeo (electro-funk duo) * Teena Marie (singer-songwriter) * Hall & Oates (pop-music duo)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

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“There are the actual facts of what was happening in popular culture in the 1980s — and then there was this tantalizing notion that music played backwards was going to seed our minds with evil. Which was scary, but also kind of cool to a certain kid-like way of thinking. You can almost see a book like Backward Masking Unmasked as young-adult literature.” — Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate Rolf delves into another musical mystery — the idea of "backward masking" in rock music, and how it came to influence notions of "Satanic Panic" in America over the course of the 1980s. Returning to the show for this musical deep-dive are Jedd Beaudoin (@JeddBeaudoin), who hosts the syndicated music show “Strange Currency,” and Michael Carmody (@Carmody68), a musician, record collector, and donut shop entrepreneur.

Together they discuss preacher Jacob Aranza's underground-classic 1983 anti-rock book Backward Masking Unmasked and its idiosyncratic take on popular music (4:00); the history of rock and roll and American culture that led up to Satanic Panic in the 1980s (31:10); how rock acts exploited the idea of Satanism to sell records just as preachers, politicians, and pop-journalists fixated on its supposed dangers to attract followers (42:10); and the legacy of Satanic Panic and the seeming lack of evil in today's popular music (1:05:45).

Rock and roll curiosities mentioned * Backmasking (audio technique) * Gene Simmons’ Tongue (Snopes article) * Blood in KISS Comic Book (Snopes article) * Paul is Dead (Beatles urban legend) * Aleister Crowley (English occultist) * Robert Johnson sold soul to the devil (blues myth) * Sign of the horns (rock hand gesture) * Eddie (zombie-like Iron Maiden mascot) * Dark Side of the Rainbow (movie/album mashup) * Acid rock (psychedelic rock subgenre) * Judas Priest suicide lawsuit * Ozzy Osbourne suicide lawsuit * Norwegian black metal (extreme metal genre) * Classic rock is not dead. Classic rock is undead (podcast episode) * Hammer of the Gods (controversial book about Led Zeppelin)

Movies and TV shows mentioned * CHIPs “Rock Devil Rock” episode (1982) * The Decline of Western Civilization (Penelope Spheeris documentary) * Decline of Western Civilization Part II: The Metal Years (documentary) * Rosemary’s Baby (horror movie) * The Exorcist (horror movie) * Trick or Treat (horror movie) * Manic Pixie Dream Girl (stock movie character) * Dream Deceivers (Judas Priest suicide trial documentary)

Other people, institutions, and events mentioned * Satanic Ritual Abuse (moral panic) * Day-care sex-abuse hysteria (moral panic) * James Vicary (subliminal advertising researcher) * James Watt (Interior secretary under Reagan) * Tipper Gore (senator’s wife and anti-rock crusader) * Captain & Tennille (soft-rock artists) * Bette Midler (singer-songwriter) * Church of Satan (religious organization) * Transcendental Meditation (spiritual practice) * Dada (avant-garde art movement) * 1 Samuel 15:3 (genocidal Bible verse) * West Memphis Three (wrongfully convicted ritual-murder suspects) * Shout at the Devil (Motley Crue album) * Columbine High School massacre (mass shooting) * The weird history of America’s national anthem (podcast episode) * Manson murders (cult killings)

Rock Devil Rock CHiPs TV clip

Quincy punk-rock episode clip

This episode was engineered by Torin Andersen of KMUW studios in Wichita. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“We all have different priorities in life, and there is a place for each of us where we can live according to what those priorities are.” – Winona Dimeo

Winona Dimeo (@winona_rose) is the managing editor of Livability.com, a website that ranks America’s most livable small and mid-sized cities.

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Winona discuss what people are looking for in a place to live (2:00) and Livability.com’s latest rankings for America’s most livable cities (23:00). Then, Rolf takes recommendations from listeners on their favorite places to live in America (53:00).

For more livability tips, check out 2018 Top 100 Best Places to Live. Livability also publishes its methodology.

Cities mentioned in the main interview include: Portland, OR; Austin, TX; Minneapolis, MN; Pittsburgh, PA; Manhattan, KS; Lawrence, KS; Overland Park, KS; Lindsborg, KS; Ottawa, KS; Wichita, KS; Buffalo, NY; Rochester, MN; Kingsport, TN; Sevierville, TN; Fargo, ND; Savannah, GA; New Orleans, LA; Cincinnati, OH; Yellow Springs, OH; Athens, OH; Astoria, OR; Lincoln City, OR; Nashville, TN; Asheville, NC; Black Mountain, NC; Brevard, NC; Traverse City, MI; Marfa, TX; Charleston, SC; Bend, OR; and Hood River, OR.

Notable Links: * Konza Prairie (biological preserve) * Tallgrass National Prairie Preserve * Kanopolis State Park * Stiefel Theater * "One of the Coolest Cities in America Doesn't Even Realize It Yet" (Thrillist article) * Dollywood (theme park) * Alicia Underlee Nelson (travel writer) * Gooding (band) * 1,000 Places to See Before You Die, by Patricia Shultz (book) * Oregon Shakespeare Festival * Transcendental Meditation * Wollowa Mountains (mountain range) * Terminal Gravity (brewery) * Maharishi Vastu Architecture

Audio contributors: * Adam Karlin (Staunton, VA) * Alicia Ard (Bend, OR) * Sarah Bell (Phoenixville, Pennsylvania) * Gooding (Kingston Springs, TN) * Steven Gray (Pensacola, FL) * Avery Gunns (Truth or Consequences, NM) * Max Hartshorne (Northampton, MA) * Michele Hermann (Buffalo, NY) * Karen Hugg (Ashland, OR) * Jamie-Lee Josselyn (Galena, IL) * Brian Kevin (Joseph, OR and Enterprise, OR) * Tim Leffel (Chattanooga, TN) * Deborah Lewis (Middlebury, VT) * Dinty W. Moore (Athens, OH) * Chrystine Olson (Graham, NC) * Patricia Schultz (Beacon, NY) * Jessica Voigts (Traverse City, MI) * Jason Wisdom (Fairfield, IA)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“The traditional black experience is not the traditional white experience, so until we recognize that I don’t think it’s going change. But I think that is the first hurdle—compassion and consciousness.” – Candacy Taylor

Candacy Taylor (@candacytaylor) is a writer, photographer and cultural critic. She is the founder of Taylor Made Culture.

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Candacy discuss the African American experience along Route 66 (2:30); the history of The Negro Motorist Green Book (15:00); and the current travel issues facing African Americans (27:30).

Notable Links: * The Negro Motorist Green Book (guidebook) * Victor Hugo Green (founder of The Green Book) * Sundown Town * Fantastic Caverns (show cave) * John A. Williams (author) * The Warmth of Other Suns, by Isabel Wilkerson (book) * Esso (oil company) * Harlem Riot of 1935 * Laura Spelman Rockefeller (abolitionist and philanthropist) * Sammy Davis Jr. (musician) * Duke Ellington (musician) * Pearl Bailey (actress and singer) * Jackie Robinson (baseball player)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Once again road trips are becoming more about the journey rather than the destination and I see that as a very encouraging sign that maybe people are realizing the merit of enjoying the journey.” – Richard Ratay

Richard Ratay (@RichRatay) is the author of Don’t Make Me Pull Over!, an informal history of the family road trip.

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Richard discuss the history of long-haul automobile travel and the interstate highway system (6:00); the effects of interstate highways on American travel culture (19:00); the station wagon and the evolution of the road trip car (35:00); and the decline of the road trip Golden Age (48:00).

Notable Links: * Henry Ford (founder of Ford Motor Company) * Horatio Nelson Jackson (automobile pioneer) * Desert Solitaire, by Edward Abbey (book) * Howard Deering Johnson (entrepreneur and businessman) * Motel 6 (hotel chain) * Ralph Teeter (inventor of cruise control) * I Can’t Drive 55 (song by Sammy Hagar) * Citizens Band Radio (short distance radio communications) * Convoy (song) * Convoy (movie) * Wooly Willy (toy) * Handheld electronic games * Mattel (toy manufacturing company) * The Sears Christmas Wish Book was (truly) great American literature (Deviate podcast episode) * 8-track tape (sound recording technology) * Bill Lear (inventor and businessman) * Barry Manilow (musician) * MAS*H (TV series) * MacArthur Park (song) * Duran Duran (band) * Herb Kelleher (founder of Southwest Airlines) * Airline Deregulation Act

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Travel should not be a checklist; it should be about having new experiences” – Catherine Price

Catherine Price (@Catherine_Price) is a journalist and author of How to Break Up with Your Phone and 101 Places Not to See Before You Die.

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Catherine discuss digital distractions and their effects on our brains (2:00); reframing the way we think about our smartphones (9:30); being deliberate with our attention (12:30); setting ourselves up for success and creating the necessary "speed-bumps" (17:00); paying attention to our body (21:30); developing a technology-separation practice-trial, and using technology to protect ourselves from technology (29:00); and getting existential about how we think of time management (42:00).

For more from Catherine, check out her website at phonebreakup.com

Notable Links: * "What Would It Take for You to Be Still?" by Catherine Price (article) * "How to Break Up With Your Phone" by Catherine Price (article) * Edward Tronick and the “Still Face Experiment” * University of Massachusetts Center for Mindfulness * The Craving Mind, by Judson Brewer (book) * Freedom (computer program and app) * Inbox When Ready (computer program)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Compared to the pop music that I was listening to at the time, there just seemed to be something deep and mysterious and enigmatic and sexy and scary about classic rock” – Steven Hyden

Steven Hyden (@Steven_Hyden) is a music critic. He currently works as a culture critic for UPROXX where he writes about all things music and hosts the Celebration Rock podcast. His book, Twilight of the Gods, is out now.

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Steven discuss the genesis of Classic Rock (2:00); the experience of interacting with music and how that interaction has changed over the years (12:00); Rock & Roll as an aging art (25:00); and how we reckon with the transience of music (36:00).

For more from Steven, check out his UPROXX article archive at https://uproxx.com/author/steven-hyden/

Notable links: * Hammer of the Gods, by Stephen Davis (book) * Hype! (documentary film) * Ship of Theseus (thought experiment) * Appetite for Destruction (music album) * The Joshua Tree (music album) * The Dark Side of the Moon (music album) * Pet Sounds (music album) * Ram (music album) * Alternative rock (genre of Rock & Roll) * Red Rocks Amphitheatre (concert venue)

Notable music bands / music artists mentioned: * Eagles * Pink Floyd * The Rolling Stones * Led Zeppelin * Fleetwood Mac * Pearl Jam * Nirvana * The White Stripes * The Strokes * Smashing Pumpkins * Metallica * Jane’s Addiction * AC/DC * Aerosmith * Van Halen * Beyoncé * Frank Ocean * Bob Marley * Journey * REO Speedwagon * Boston * Kansas * Styx * Paul McCartney * The Beatles * Bob Dylan * Kanye West * Cream * Queen * Grateful Dead * John Mayer * Joe Russo’s Almost Dead * Dead & Company * Greta Van Fleet

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber. Original episode art by Alicia Ard (whose services include branding, illustration, web design, and social media management).

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“Every good story is two stories: the story of the place and the story of what happened to you as a result of being in that place” – Alden Jones

Eddy Harris (@EddyLHarris) is a writer, filmmaker, and author of Mississippi Solo, Native Stranger, and Still Life in Harlem. Alden Jones (@jones_alden) is an author and writer of The Blind Masseuse. Thomas Swick (@roostertie) is an author and writer of The Joys of Travel, A Way to See the World, and Unquiet Days.

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf, Eddy, Alden, and Thomas reflect on the legacy of Anthony Bourdain and the state of travel writing at large (3:00); common criticisms of travel writing (22:00); the notion of authenticity in travel and travel writing (34:00); what constitutes good travel writing, and the future of the genre (46:00).

Books mentioned: * Kitchen Confidential, by Anthony Bourdain * A Cook's Tour, by Anthony Bourdain * In Patagonia, by Bruce Chatwin * Eat, Pray, Love, by Elizabeth Gilbert * Wild, by Cheryl Strayed * Abroad, by Paul Fussell * The Pillars of Hercules, by Paul Theroux * Go Tell the Crocodiles, by Rowan Moore Gerety * White Man’s Game, by Stephanie Hanes * Flaubert in Egypt, by Gustave Flaubert * Video Night in Kathmandu, by Pico Iyer * Figures in a Landscape, by Paul Theroux * What Belongs to You, by Garth Greenwell (novel)

Authors, articles, and other notable links * "Anthony Bourdain Did Not Speak Travelese," by Rolf Potts * "Around the World in 80 Hours (of Travel TV)," by Rolf Potts * "Is Travel Writing Dead?" Granta essay by Colin Thubron * "The danger of a single story," by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie (TED Talk) * Key West Literary Seminar (writing conference) * Jan Morris (writer) * Pico Iyer (writer) * Tim Cahill (writer) * Paul Theroux (writer) * Ryszard Kapuściński (journalist) * Bill Bryson (author) * Gerald Brenan (writer) * Gertrude Bell (author) * Mary Kingsley (writer and explorer) * Jeffrey Tayler (journalist) * Granta (literary journal) * Panorama: The Journal of Intelligent Travel * Best American Travel Writing (book series) * Jason Wilson (writer and editor) * Amy Gigi Alexander (writer and editor) * Cochabamba Water War * U.S. bombing of Cambodia * Cambodian genocide * Gorongosa National Park (preserve in Mozambique)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"John Hughes, and really all of best 1980s teen movies, were saying that the stories of teenagers are the stories of all of us. They have the same human need and longing that the stories of adults have." —Kevin Smokler

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf discusses classic coming-of-age films with Kevin Smokler (@Weegee), author of Brat Pack America: A Love Letter to '80s Teen Movies.

The discussion themes, cultural references, and time-codes that outline this expansive conversation are as follows:

Kids having adult adventures movies [2:30 - 17:00]

Links: * Stand By Me (1986 film) * Different Seasons, by Stephen King (book) * Rob Reiner (film director) * Season 4 of The Wire (TV season) * David Simon (TV writer-producer) * Boyz in the Hood (1991 film) * John Singleton (film director) * "12 Great Coming-Of-Age Movie Final-Scene Songs," by Rolf Potts

Emblematic teen movies [17:00 -45:10]

Links: * Breakfast Club (1985 film) * John Hughes (filmmaker) * Sixteen Candles (1984 film) * Long Duk Dong (Sixteen Candles character) * Apu Nahasapeemapetilon (Simpsons character) * Hari Kondabolu (standup comic) * How to American, by Jimmy O. Yang (memoir) * Fresh Off the Boat (TV show) * Fast Times at Ridgemont High (1982 film) * Say Anything (1989 film) * Cameron Crowe (writer-director) * John Mahoney (actor) * Ione Skye (actress) * Heathers (1989 film) * Daniel Waters (screenwriter) * Riot grrrl (feminist punk movement) * Dead Poets Society (1989 film) * Dylan Kussman (actor) * Norman Lloyd (actor) * Carpe Diem (Dead Poets Society Latin aphorism)

Quirky teen fantasy movies [45:10 -1:06:10]

Links: * Ferris Bueller's Day Off (1986 film) * Matthew Broderick (actor) * John Hughes director's commentary on Ferris Bueller * Ferris Bueller's Day Off screenplay * Home Alone (1990 film) * Back to the Future (1985 film) * Life Moves Pretty Fast, by Hadley Freeman (book) * Risky Business (1983 film) * Tangerine Dream (electronic music band) * Paul Brickman (writer-director)

One crazy night movies [1:06:10 -1:19:00]

Links: * Dazed and Confused (1993 film) * Richard Linklater (writer-director) * Quentin Tarantino (writer-director) * American Graffiti (1973 film) * Everybody Wants Some!! (2016 film) * Slacker (1991 film) * Boyhood (2014 film) * Before Sunrise (1995 film) * Before Sunset (2004 film) * Before Midnight (2013 film)

Dark teen movies [1:19:00 - 1:25:00]

Links: * River's Edge (1986 film) * Murder of Marcy Renee Conrad (inspiration for River's Edge) * Dennis Hopper (actor) * Keanu Reeves (actor) * Satanic panic (1980s moral panic) * Over the Edge (1979 film) * The Legend of Bill Jean (1985 film)

Teen sports movies with strong sense of place [1:25:00 -1:32:40]

Links: * Breaking Away (1979 film) * Friday Night Lights, by Buzz Bissinger (book) * Friday Night Lights (2004 film) * Friday Night Lights (TV series) * All the Right Moves (1983 film) * Hoosiers (1986 film) * Remember the Titans (2000 film)

Autobiographical coming-of-age movies [1:32:40 -1:51:30]

Links: * Almost Famous (2000 film) * "Tiny Dancer" scene from Almost Famous * Freaks and Geeks (TV series) * Paul Feig (TV writer) * Judd Apatow (TV producer) * Jason Segel (actor) * Bob Seger (singer-songwriter) * My So-Called Life (TV series)

21st century coming-of-age movies and TV shows [1:51:30 - 2:01:00]

Links: * Stranger Things (TV series) * Everything Sucks! (TV series) * Lady Bird (2017 film) * Greta Gerwig (writer-director) * Real Women Have Curves (2002 film) * Dope (2015 film) * Love, Simon (2018 film) * "Stranger Things: 5 Differences Between the Pilot Script and the First Episode," by Rolf Potts

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel's 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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“The greatest blessing for me, from having all these losses, has been the otherworldly, supreme clarity about what’s important to me—about how much I love and how much I am loved.” – Heather Dobbins

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf, Heather Dobbins, and Jamie-Lee Josselyn discuss personal loss, grief and mourning, including the importance of gestures over words (2:30); the rituals that surround loss and mourning (18:00); the task of facing holidays and difficult moments in the years following a personal loss (30:00); and funerals and bearing witness to the life and death of loved ones (44:00).

Heather Dobbins, is a teacher, poet, and writer of In the Low Houses and River Mouth. Jamie-Lee Josselyn (@jljosselyn), is a creative writing instructor, essayist, and host of the Dead Parents Society podcast.

Notable Links: * Rainer Maria Rilke (poet) * "A Coffin—is A Small Domain," by Emily Dickinson * The Book of Psalms: A Translation (book) * Guests of My Life, by Elizabeth Watson (book) * Elegy: Poems, by Mary Jo Bang (book) * "You Were You Are Elegy," by Mary Jo Bang * David Letterman (television host) * Annie Dillard (author) * Six Feet Under (television series) * Freaks and Geeks (television series) * The Legend of Zelda (video game series) * Sudden unexplained death in childhood * The Kelly Writers House

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we're happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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"All writing is trying to destroy a stereotype, and the individual that you're writing about -- the figure in the landscape -- is actually the ideal." —Paul Theroux

Paul Theroux's highly acclaimed novels include Blinding Light, My Other Life, and The Mosquito Coast. His 1975 book The Great Railway Bazaar is credited with revitalizing the genre of literary travel writing, and his more recent travel books include Ghost Train to the Eastern Star, Dark Star Safari, and The Last Train to Zona Verde.

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Paul talk about Theroux's new book Figures in a Landscape, and strategies for writing about the "human architecture of a place" (4:30); the attitude and time-investment required for meaningful travel reportage (19:30); the qualities that determine successful travel writing (24:50); the essential discomforts and obstacles of travel (31:45); the uses and shortcomings of paper maps in developing countries (39:15); and where Paul is traveling next (45:00).