Ad Navseam: Recent Episodes
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The Ad Navseam podcast, where Classical gourmands can finally get their fill. Join hosts Dr. David Noe and Dr. Jeff Winkle for a lively discussion of Greco-Roman civilization stretching from the Minoans and Mycenaeans, through the Renaissance, and right down to the present.
Beggar-boxing as in the Odyssey? Not this time. Apollonius in book 2 of his epic brings out the arrogant king of the Bebrycians, Amycus. He may seem kind enough to his neighbors, but no one goes away from his door without getting challenged for a fisticuffs to the death. Then along comes Jason and crew, who receive no xenia, but quickly put the pugilist Polydeuces up to pummeling the king into compliance. Book 2 also features the fabulous story of Phineus the prophet. Poor guy can see the future, but can never get past the appetizers in his meal, thanks to Zeus, before a Stygian stank ruins it all. Thankfully, the Minyans also have with them the sons of Boreas, the North wind. They cash in some frequent flyer miles and release Phienus from the terrible, chimeric, stench-laden, bird women, and tout suite, Harpy Days are here to stay! Tune in for more epic adventures and a really bad opening pun.
If you're Jason, and you need to find that golden fleece in order to escape the curse of the man with the one sandal, and then get back to your hometown of Iolcus to reclaim the throne from Uncle Stealy, don't let some six-armed heaving monsters, midnight mistaken identity, and the loss of Superman (Heracles) slow you down. This week Jeff and Dave resume their voyage through the story of the Argonauts by polishing off the adventures of Book I. But has any epic hero lacked more luster than this guy? When Hercules goes off to find something to replace his now toothpicked oar, and his trustee squire Hylas gets nymphnapped, the hulking brute is off the boat from grief and on the hunt for the ensnared lad. This is the perfect time for Jason to step up, act like Achilles, Aeneas, or at least Odysseus. Instead, the whole nested tale has more than a Whiff of Elpenor™ quality to it, and Jason sits brooding, quietly. Tune in to take a deeper look into this Hellenistic epic. Is it big book, big problem, à la Callimachus, or does Apollonius win this round?
Catch a quick bite of the Classics this week courtesy of 'Doug' at Etymonline. On the menu is a discussion of the first English dictionary, the Latinate tome of Henry Cockeram, 1623. Jeff and Dave also stratuminate your path toward the labors of Sir Thomas Elyot, another aspiring neologist who sought to beef up the paucity of the English verbalate with some gems exveined of Latin. The question is, does English with its popping and snapping monosyllables really have room for meridiation ("a sleeping at noone-tide"), desipiate ("to wax foolish"), and galluate ("beginne to have a big voice")? Hard to say, but we advise that you just morigerate ("do as commanded"), stop secubating ("lying about by one's selfe"), and knock off any desire to bubulcitate ("cry like a cowboy"). Rather, transliminate the vomitorium with us! It'll be persebonate, and we make that claim with all bellitude.
Welcome to stop number two on the guys' journey from Iolcus to Colchis (and back!). With preliminaries covered, this week Dave and Jeff drfit through Book 1 of Apollonius’ Argonautica and continue to puzzle over Jason’s milquetoast administrative style. Is this meant to be reflective of an Athenian democratic ideal, as though Homeric arete has hit a sunset clause? And what is up with Heracles? Gone is the baudy, brawling, wine-binging, lion-wrestler. In his place we get deference, restrained statemanship, a level head, and...coach seating? But we know you all are eager to get out to sea, so first stop Lemnos where we learn that while it’s always good to pack extra Speed Stick, you don’t always need it. And, tune in for the drawing of our free Hackett title, a copy of the Berg & Parker translation of Plautus and Terence: Five Comedies.
Crashing rocks, a golden fleece, the smelly women of Lemnos, a lost waterboy, fraternal murder, potions, and Jason, the very unheroic lead...ready for another epic? Join Dave and Jeff as they climb aboard the Argo with a roster of heroes from the days before the Trojan war. The Hellenistic poet Apollonius of Rhodes (d. circa 215 B.C.) takes us on a four-book, seafaring journey from distant and exotic Colchis all the way back to Thessalian Iolcus. Can Jason reclaim the throne from his wicked uncle Pelias by himself, or does he need the sorceress Medea, granddaughter of the sun, to make up for his many heroic deficiencies? What does the prophecy of the "man with one sandal" have to do with the tale, and does Apollonius' epic really fit Hellenistic sensibilities of "big book, big problem"? Or, is there something else involved? Tune in to find out, and don't miss your final chance to catch the secret code word and enter to win a free copy of the Berg & Parker translation of Plautus and Terence: Five Comedies, courtesy of Hackett.
Tune in this week for a quick eructation as Jeff and Dave review the disturbing story of Lucius Pedanius Secundus, Roman aristocrat, who in A.D. 61 was murdered by one of his household slaves. The aftermath of this violent act was notoriously brutal: Tacitus tells us all 400 other slaves in Pedanius' house, whether implicated in the crime or ignorant of it, including women and infants, were scheduled for crucifixion. Tacitus also records that a mob of Roman citizens rioted and stormed the senate building, seeking to prevent the enforcement of the ancient law. Drawing from Annales XIV.42-45, the hosts look at arguments for and against the justice of such an act, the constraints of mos maiorum, and the final outcome of the whole nasty affair, because of Nero's intervention. Grim, yes, but history, as Edward Gibbon says, "...is, indeed, little more than the register of the crimes, follies, and misfortunes of mankind."
Join the guys this week for a quick takedown of three recent translations of Homer's Odyssey, courtesy of Prof. Richard Whitaker of the University of Cape Town (Acta Classica, 2020). In six weeks, the Christopher Nolan adaptation of the Odyssey will hit the big screen, based on Emily Wilson's translation. But does this new rendition of the epic have sufficient gravitas, not to mention accuracy, to carry the story? Dave and Jeff look at this question from as many angles as a 30-minute episode will allow, including: style, word choice, faithfulness to Homer's moral vision, and more. There is also a quick take on the Anthony Verity and Peter Green versions, with their respective strengths. So grab some Classics on the go (take them in kinda between meals) and keep them down! You'll be gurgling all the way to greater Classical profundity. And don't miss secret code words like braggart, and fantastic summer sales, AESTAS15!
"Greece, though beat, then caught her captor fast; and into boorish Latium brought cultured life at last." So says Horace in Epistle II.156-157. This week Jeff and Dave return to Marrou, Part III, ch. 2, to examine the much discussed but ever fresh question of the Hellenization of Roman culture. When exactly did the toga clad race turn her gaze east to try to learn art, sculpture, music, and poetry? Is there a good explanation for the famous Roman inconsistency and feeling of cultural inferiority? For example, the Roman aristocracy loved to watch sports, but not to participate. Athletes had to be foreigners or low class people. And, the Romans had the most elaborate bathing complexes, but these did not serve the cause of athletics. Those of Caracalla, Diocletian, and others seemed only aimed at clubby networking. You sweat a little, then bathe alot, but only to nail down a corn law, cut a real estate deal, or promote your favorite politician. It has nothing to do with the glory of sport or notching PR's on the deadlift. This and much more is in store as the show continues its way through the classic text. Also, be sure to listen for the secret code word so you can win a free copy of the Berg & Parker translation of Plautus and Terence: Five Comedies, courtesy of Hackett. Finally, behold, a new coupon code for a limited-time offer on Dave's starter Latin course: AESTAS15.
Will the clever slave Dexter (Palaestrio) succeed in outsmarting the self-absorbed, narcissistic, self-proclaimed war hero Major Blowhard (Pyrgopolynices), so that the mostly incompetent, lovable, lovelorn young man Nauticles (Pleusicles) can rescue the young girl he loves, Convivia (Philocomasium), from the Major's lecherous clutches in time, and spirit her back to Athens with possessions secured? Or, will it all fall apart due to a mere meddling monkey (Monkey) running along a rooftop, who gets spotted by dunderbrain Haplus (Sceledrus)? As the guys wrap up their first foray into Plautine comedy, tune in and find out. And, be sure to listen for the secret code word so you can win a free copy of the Berg & Parker translation of Plautus and Terence: Five Comedies, courtesy of Hackett, and thus grow your libaby. There's something for everyone!
This week the guys make their first foray into Roman Comedy, specifically Plautus and one of his best-known plays, Miles Gloriosus (“Major Blowhard”). After a brief digression on Doestoevsky (не спрашивай), Dave and Jeff dig into the particulars of Greek New Comedy, its influence on Roman comic poets like Plautus and Terence, as well as the challenges faced and license needed to translate such works accurately, but also make them hit for modern audiences. And then, into the play—it’s got everything: narcissistic jackanapes, sponging schnorrers, longing lovers, secret tunnels, meddling gods, and even some pirates thrown in for good measure. If you like bombast, verbal fireworks, and insouciant inanity, this ones for you. Don't forget to tune in to win a free copy of the Berg & Parker translation of Plautus and Terence: Five Comedies. Listen for the secret code word.
This one's for all you autodidacts: if you have questions about any aspect of Greco-Roman antiquity, have trouble distinguishing between Phylas and Phrynichus, and are not sure where to turn when you are tearing through an ancient text and get stumped by some unfamiliar term, we've got you covered. This week Jeff and Dave walk us through the fascinating landscape of the most famous classical encyclopedias: Pauly Wissowa, Der Kleine Pauly, Der Neue Pauly, the CHCL (and how it differs from the CAH), and of course, the master map of classical scholarship, L'Année philologique. And in the second half, we explore the history and usefulness of that great granddaddy of them all, the Oxford Classical Dictionary, starting with the 1st ed. and extending to the 4th, digital form it now inhabits. So from Abacus to Zosimus, from Nichomachus to ancient gesturing, the Nerd is strong in this one. And, don't miss FlexCalls.com.
In the Athenian criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police, who investigate crime (and who didn't exist) and the district attorneys (there were none of these either), who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories. Dun dun.
This week the guys take a close look, complete with dramatic reading of a cross-examination, at the rough-and-tumble world of late 5th century Athens and her notorious cutthroat law courts. On the menu is Against Eratosthenes, the most famous oration of Lysias, a resident alien (metic), who became wealthy as a hired gun speechwriter (logographer). Following the end of the Peloponnesian War, Sparta installed a brief and brutal aristocratic regime known as the Thirty Tyrants. These ruffians proceeded to murder many metics, including Lysias' brother Polemarchus (their father Kephalus makes a favorable cameo in Plato's Republic). Now, Lysias impeaches one of those tyrants, Eratosthenes, in a bid to get justice for his dead brother. Can he use his lean, unadorned style, and brilliant character portrayal (ethopoeia) to balance the scales?
Also: Celebrate Rome's birthday today! Use coupon code ROME2779 at latinperdiem.com for 20% off any Latin class.
This week the guys dip back into Marrou, where the author pivots like Yaxel Lendeborg to the Roman side of things. H.I. takes up the "Old Roman Education". Immediately we notice realities that put the lie to the loose notion that the Romans just took from the Greeks and changed the names. While, yes, eventually much of Roman education merges with the Hellenistic ideals explored earlier (and later) tome-wise, at its root, Roman education was fundamentally a different enterprise. Much more than the Greeks, the Roman centered their approach around tradition, the state, and the family. Mos maiorum reigned supreme. The “noble peasant” ideal (even if later on you lived in a high-rise next to the Colosseum and sipped cocktails with your Greek besties) is there at the beginning and never fully disappears. The chief lesson? Even if you show up with an army of Volsci ready to overthrow the state, you still gotta listen to your momma.
"There are the life events that have been apportioned to you. Live in harmony with them. There are the people whose destiny is to live at the same time as you. Love them. (Make sure you really feel it.)" (Meditations 6.39) This week Jeff and Dave sit down with Aaron Poochigian – experienced translator, poet, and all-around Classics enthusiast – to discuss his new translation from W.W. Norton of the Meditations (ad se ipsum) of the Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius (r. 161-180). Stoicism is on the menu, as well as great nuggets of advice like "don't let yourself be Caesarified. It can happen". And, "be careful not to wear royal attire at home". What can Marcus, who never intended his private ruminations to be published, teach us about suffering, wisdom, fear of death, and more? Tune in to hear from this fascinating author, transmitted through an equally fascinating interpreter.
Ok, AdNaserinos, you have slogged your way through 214 episodes of this humble podcast, patiently enduring many digressions, running gags, and inside jokes. You have also heard the hosts gush over the wit and brilliance of Publius Ovidius Naso, and the many vignettes mined from his Metamorphoses. For this Gurgle, Dave and Jeff take a quick bite of an important article from the journal Phoenix, Winter 1959, by G.B. Riddehough. Citing Ovid's "wonderful power of differentiation", Riddehough seeks to connect the dots between the endless changes into birds, bears (no beets), fish, and other bestial creepy crawlies that fill the pages of this most unconventional epic. What themes emerge? When a human being takes on fins, scales, feathers, or fangs, does he retain his core identity, a man trapped in an animal's body? Or is there something else that's happening? What does it mean to be quintessentially human, to possess humanities? And what happens when that is ripped away? For keen interpretive insight on Ovid, this is one you don't want to miss.
This week Jeff and Dave zero in on the neoteric poetry of the Roman Republic's waning days. Relying on the efforts of the late great Peter Green (of "brackish tang" fame) and his 2005 translation and commentary on the Catullan canon, the guys look at poems 1 (to Cornelius Nepos), 13 (to Fabullus), and 14 (to Calvus). What is it that drives a poet of apparently trivial interests? Is it love? Revenge? Boredom? And are these interests really so trivial, or do they hide deeper and more significant themes? Along the way you can learn about the labor limae (endless work of revision), cow-eyed Clodia (Catullus' Lesbia), that Dave can't count, and how to make the feet in your line of poetry go all the way to 11 (hendecasyllabics). Finally, once you olfactory learners get a whiff of this particular episode, you'll beg the gods to make you one giant nose!
When you're feeling blue, all you have to do, is take a listen here, then you're not so blue. Why? We've got a Marrouvy kind of show. This week Jeff and Dave wrap up Part II of this portion of the book (and you might be say, "well it's about tome!") Tune in to learn all about how music and gymnastics began to fade, and language study and literature became dominant. The Hellenistic era formed a bridge to Roman education, and while we might have a certain fondness for the wonder years of childhood – thank you Fred Savage, Danica McKellar, and Jason Hervey – the Greeks saw things quite differently. Childhood was simply a precursor for adulthood, and the whole purpose of education was to lead the youngster out of his unformed stage into the full-blown, mature adult toward which nature aimed. This took place not so much through school, but by the careful mentorship of a paedagogus, that man who led the child to and from school and taught him all the ropes. In this way, Isocrates triumphed over Plato, rhetoric over philosophy, and poetry was never completely banished from the culture. Homer reigned supreme an d classical humanism was thoroughly traditional. Be sure also to sign up for the giveaway of the two-volume Aristotle set from Hackett! You'll need the secret code-word (it's Kontos).
This week Dave and Jeff are joined in the vomitorium by Dave's former colleague and long-lost friend Dr. Bob Stacey. Bob is headmaster and instructor in government at the St. Augustine school in Jackson, TN. The menu today includes a discussion of Alexis de Tocqueville's famous work Democracy in America, specifically a portion of Vol. II.1.15. Should everyone be allowed to study Greek and Latin? Can the pursuit of literature, art and music thrive in the hurly-burly of a representative democracy? Is it the case that in "democratic centuries", as Tocqueville says, "the education of the greatest number [of citizens] be scientific, commercial, and industrial rather than literary"? These and other questions occupy the hosts and guest for a happy 60 minutes or so, along with occasional digressions on presidential politics, the delights of gift shops, and more. Don't miss it! Also, tune in to sign up for your chance to win the new Hackett Complete Works of Aristotle, in 2 volumes.
Did you know that when Martin Luther (1483-1546) wasn’t nailing things to doors and fomenting major splits in Christendom he was writing poetry? In Latin? Well, thanks to Carl P. E. Springer we now have all of it in one fascinating volume. Join the guys and see how Luther runs the gamut—lines which express his deep faith, his longing and loss, his reworking of the Psalms, invective against Erasmus and Pope Clement VII, not to mention those verses that express his, um, earthier side. So tune in and revel in this hidden side of one of the most pivotal figures in world history and see if Jeff can stop giggling. Also, don't forget to sign up for your chance to win the new Hackett Complete Works of Aristotle, in 2 volumes. You'll need the secret code word (it's Kontos).
This week Jeff and Dave conclude their brisk and breezy, dramatic reading through that old comedy standard, the Clouds. Featuring a rich smorgasbord of hilarity, inanity, and some nearly "postmodern" trends and politics, the episode starts out with an homage, a listener's letter, and some outrageous paronomasia: just what Aristophanes ordered! The hi- and lo- jinks then move on to some rather serious business, a debate between Superior Argument and Inferior Argument. Here we see that despite exuberant flatulence, and more than a little bit of invective and vituperation, the old playwright is dealing with deadly serious issues: does might make right? Is rhetoric all there is to law, or is there some abiding and underlying moral structure to the world and human society that populates it? Is it okay for children to beat their parents? What to do with a doddering fool like Strepsiades (Mr. Twisty-turny)? And, can the young like Pheidippides (Horsey Coupon-cutter) be trusted with education and a dangerous tool like logic? Also, tune in to sign up for your chance to win the new Hackett Complete Works of Aristotle, in 2 volumes.
In an AN first, Dave and Jeff take the show on the road to the Michigan state capital. Hosted by the world-class nerds of the Michigan Junior Classical League, the guys slush their way into Lansing to talk Ovid once more—specifically the crushing demise of "gym bro" Acis, who stood zero chance against that hulking, one-eyed colossus, the Cyclops. Here is your opportunity to master the geometry of emotion: do Polyphemus, Acis, and Galatea form a love Dorito, a rectangle of spite, or a dodecahedron of nostalgia? Join us for a unique, live format, featuring crowd participation with sharp questions and comments from bright Classical minds across Michigan. Plus, listen in for a chance to win the collected works of Aristotle from Hackett, edited by C.D.C. Reeve and Pavlos Kontos!
This week the guys take another stab at Aristophanes, this time with his Clouds. Will they rain in their criticisms? Will their jokes float lazily over your head? Haven’t the foggiest, but tune in anyway. The episode begins with a discussion of Aristophanic comedy and its genre-bending mix of the lofty and the scatological. Following translator Meineck, exactly how many different ingredients did Aristophanes put in this soup? Is there anything like it today? Or, maybe it's too “localized” to properly translate? Well, step on the gas, and see what the guys find. Maybe you, too, can study with Socrates and learn how to dodge those Christmas credit card bills that recently came calling by making Inferior Argument - whoever that is - stronger. But first, try on these Persian paraffin wax booties and let’s see how far you can jump.
Join the conversation this week as Jeff and Dave go back into the world of Henri-Irénée Marrou’s History of Education in Antiquity, Part II, Chapter XI. First up is philosophical conversion: when you read Plato or Aristotle for the first time, does a lightbulb go off in your mind? What's the wattage, and is it epiphanic? Should everyone study philosophy? The hosts carefully break down the three levels of philosophical instruction: confraternities with chosen heirs that dominated official city life, freelancing, roving lecturers, and the "tub-thumpers" who heckled and harangued innocent passersby. The rivalry could be fierce between the different philosophical sects, not to mention the ongoing feud they maintained with those practical intellectuals, the rhetors. Ancient schooling in philosophy was not so different than the modern variety, with immature pranks, grungy flannels (the tribon), and more. It's a deep dive, but someone's gotta do it. So grab some brew from your Ratio Four, pull up a chair, and join the classical gourmands for a feast of intellectual history. Also, tune in to learn how you can win a free set of the Hackett edition of the Collected Works of Aristotle, as the guys somehow finagled a second giveaway!
Porphyry, Isaac Casaubon, and Richard Rietzenstein walk into a bar. Well, that's not true, seeing that they were separated from each other by hundreds of years. But if they did, they would be talking about the Corpus Hermeticum, that mysterious forged document that dates to the Hellenistic era, and claimed to have been written by "Hermes Thrice-great" (the Triple-decker). Thanks to the brilliant work of Guggenheim fellow and all-around savant Anthony Grafton, Jeff and Dave have the opportunity this week to tease out the differences between forgers and literary critics. Digging through chapter 3 of Grafton's 1990 work, the guys show how Porphyry (third century A.D.), Casaubon (16th century), and Reitzenstein (20th century) each tackle this forgery from a different angle, united in their quest for the truth and using some of the same tools. But as it turns out, are truth and falsehood more closely linked than at first they may appear? And do we have something to learn from the forgers and their methods? Tune in to find out.
Incipe, parve puer - "Get started, little boy..." These are the words Roman poet Vergil used in his famous Fourth Eclogue of 40 B.C., bidding the powerful child yet born, son of a divine father, and of a 'virgo', to usher in a new Golden Age after a time of warfare. But who precisely is this puer, who will make war to cease, cause the poisonous serpents to go docile, release draught animals from toilsome servitude, make the hillsides blossom verdant, rollback weeds and thorns, and generally seem to fulfill the vision of Isaiah 11? Come along as we investigate this fascinating question with the help of Constantine the Great, Ella Bourne, H.J. Rose, John Dryden, and more. Yes, there's some nonsense along the way, but this Ad Navseam seasonal epsiode will give you some profundities to ponder. And, stick around for a Christmas-themed outro thanks to the generosity of guitar virtuouso Paul Gilbert!
Finally, don't forget Aristotle: enter to win the brand-new collected works from Hackett Publishing, our generous sponsor. You can find it at this link.
Back to Marrou, Part II Chapter X! This time it’s all about rhetoric (we’ll resist the temptation to go on and on). H. I. drops the bomb (boutade!) that in antiquity, rhetoric was the Queen of the Sciences, and Isocrates was a much more influential figure in terms of school training and life skills than Plato ever dared deam. Along the way, the guys break down the tension and attraction between rote preparation and improvisational skills, necessary hand gestures, and the pop phenomenon of funerary orations. Want to know how to send off your beloved in the proper, encomiastic fashion? Well, here’s the Rand McNally deluxe version to guide you toward your destination. And by the way, it’s never too early to think about what other names you’d have liked to have been known by. "Give me back a body and I will declaim again!"
And don't forget Aristotle: enter to win the brand-new collected works from Hackett Publishing, our generous sponsor. You can find it at this link.
This week Dave and Jeff wrap up their discussion of John Wenham's fascinating, scholarly tour de force on the synoptic Gospels. Dealing with chapters 8 to 12, the conversation focuses on further considerations for Mark's Gospel, Ancient Testimony to Luke's Gospel, and these three, essential and concluding points: 1. How were the Gospels written? 2. Jesus-Tradition Oral and Written 3. When Were the Gospels Written? The answers might surprise you, based on patristic evidence, internal evidence, Qumran scroll evidence from 1972 – shedding light on Mark 6:52ff. – and the remarkable attestation in II Corinthians 8.8, that Luke is the brother who is "praised by all the churches for his service to the gospel." Wenham makes a persuasive argument that this refers to the composition of the third synoptic, and thus we have these dates according to the traditional form: Matthew was written before 40 A.D., in Hebrew; Mark was written no later than 45 A.D. in Rome; and Luke was written as early as 55 A.D. You won't want to miss these exciting conclusions.
Also, be sure to check out our giveaway of the brand-new collected works of Aristotle by Hackett publishing, our sponsor. You can find it at this link.
This week Jeff and Dave continue their discussion of John Wenham's arguments against the hypothesis of Markan priority and the Q document as explaining the many similarities in the synoptic Gospels. Here they pick up with "external evidence" in chapter 5, after a concluding look at the internal evidence. Wenham argues in chapters 5 and following for the priority of Matthew, reestablishing the reliability of Papias and other church fathers like Irenaeus and Origen, in the overwhelming testimony that Matthew was first, and wrote Ἑβραΐδι διαλέκτῳ. Does this mean in a Semitic language like Hebrew or Aramaean – the traditional interpretation – or is the understanding commonly attributed to Eusebius correct, that Matthew wrote "in a Semitic style", but not necessarily in the Hebrew language? The arguments are complicated, and require very careful attention to sort the wheat from the chaff. Was Peter the inspiration for Mark's gospel? Was Peter in Rome, and if, so when? Come along for a careful look at a perennially interesting and pressing question, namely the relationship between the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke. Also, be sure to check out the giveaway of the brand-new collected works of Aristotle by Hackett publishing, our sponsor. You can find it at this link.
Listen up, polyglots and hyperpolyglots: this one is for you. And for the rest of us, ever wonder what it's like to speak multiple languages, or even more than 10? Jeff and Dave come gurgling back in with a quick take on this fascinating article by Natalia Mesa over at science.org (link). Meet Vaughn Smith who, when not cleaning carpets in Washington D.C. or preparing to turn 50, tries out one of the 24 (that's right) languages he speaks fluently. And when members of this 1% of the world's population, the super-accomplished in multiple languages, undergo an fMRI or two, it turns out there are some surprising effects as the Bible or Alice in Wonderland is read in their mother tongue. So put down Duolingo (Vigintilingo?) and tune in for a quick look at this most unusual topic. It's bite-sized fun!
This week the guys dive into John Wenham’s intriguing 1992 book Redating Matthew, Mark and Luke: A Fresh Assault on the Synoptic Problem. As they unpack the dense argument, see how Wenham challenges the generally accepted order of the synoptic gospel accounts (supposedly Mark and the mysterious “Q” come first) as well as the generally accepted “late” dates for each (beginning in the 60s-70s at the earliest). Using close comparative readings as well as placing the texts in a strict historical context, Wenham builds a case for the traditional, patristic chronological order of the gospels as well as dates much closer to the events of the life of Christ. So, get your pericopes in order and be prepared to rethink everything you thought you knew about “oral tradition.”
Has it finally come to this? Again? Can't you guys come up with any new material? Well, no. Everybody needs a little time away, the fans will say, from each other. Even list'ners need a holiday, far away, from each other. So, that's what you're getting. Jeff and Dave kick back and let the fans do most of the work for this one. Thanks to all the contributions from a host of loyal listeners, the guys get a break this week to pursue their early-birding, lucubrating, and other sidelines, as well as spending time with their bevy of besties: Lazy Steve, Remote Ron, Ratio "Mark" Hellweg, Slideshow Bob, Local Will, Saswatch, The Abdominal Snowman, The Already But Not Yeti, Embryonic Mark, and the Garnier Fructis representatives. If you don't like inside jokes and running gags, maybe tune out at about minute 47.38. Or, stay until the end (and show up next episode for more substantive content). Thanks for listening!
"Whiter than cottage cheese", "bright as an unripe grape"? This is some world class woo-pitching, and Polyphemus the one-eyed wonder has high hopes that such romantic language will win fair Galatea, sea nymph extraordinaire, to his hirsute side. He may not be much to look at, monobrow and all, but the Cyclops boasts that he comes with many benefits: great musical skill, a cheez whiz packed man cave, and 1000 head of cattle. As Theocritus the famous Syracusan poet tells the tale, should we take it as farce? Or, is the song a serious philosophical inquiry into the healing nature of poetry? Join the guys this week as they take a close look at Idyll XI, an awkward, adolescent love song that the Alexandrian poet composes for that shaggy Cyclops as a backstory, before he encountered Odysseus. The insights of Brooks Otis, Erling Holtsmark, Robert Schmiel, and yes, Dronebrella, set the stage. So, cue your mixtape with Air Supply or Survivor, pray for gills, and don't miss this one!
This week the guys wrap up their look at Richard's trenchant book with his final chapter on the classics and American slavery. Richard teases out how both pro-slavery factions (John C. Calhoun, Thomas Dew, George Fitzhugh) and abolitionists (William Lloyd Garrison, Frederick Douglass) marshaled Greco-Roman thinkers to support their respective causes. The South argued that the flourishing of the arts and thought in Athens was a result of the elite classes being freed from work by the slave population, while the North saw slavery as Athens’ biggest flaw. What do Plato, Aristotle, and Cicero have to say about it all? Did they believe that some swaths of humanity were naturally servile? And, what does “natural law” suggest? Tune in and find out. There's plenty of room here for all of us to learn, even the Twainees.
Dave and Jeff this week tackle two fascinating articles in a portmanteau of Classical learning (Sahoney-Mahouter). First up, it's the 1911 article by famed philologist and New Testament scholar Alexander Souter. Examining the evidence, and building a cumulative argument, Souter argues that the Apostle Paul in all probability could speak the language of Rome's seven hills. But how strong is his case, and where might it be vulnerable to pushback? Then after halftime, Anne Mahoney (Tufts Univ.) leads the show back on to the gridiron for some computer-aided analysis of what Greek and Latin forms are indispensable as to frequency, and which are more of a purple unicorn that can safely be shelved until the third or fourth semester. For language gurus, you won't want to miss the surprises here: vocative outranks dative? Present and perfect tense verbs constitute almost 75% of all Latin verb forms? Quid rei est? And, be sure to send in your own audio clips for episode 200 to join the fun.
All you Marrou fans out there may have been wondering, "Where did that fabulous Frenchmen go"? After all, this little podcast has not covered H.I.'s theme since April 1 of the current year. Fitting date? Don't be fooled, Jeff and Dave have not given up on all things ancient education, and this week the guys return to Part II, Chapter IX. In this portion of the larger section, Classical Education in the Hellenistic Age, Marrou is dealing with what he entitles "Lesser Forms". How was the ephebia structured, and how did the architectural forms change to match this? What did the typical syllabus contain, and what of the formation of a canon? What is the connection between thinking great thoughts and walking? Should you look out for roving hygienists in your neighborhood, and can you earn a certificate or award for φιλοπονία (love of industry)? The disscussion next moves on to the "birdcage" center of ancient learning, the Museum (Alexandria, et alia), where MacArthur Fellowship recipients complained about the sluggish wifi and were feted by the Ptolemies. But we digress. Stick around for the closing bit on medicine and vo. tech, and think about sending us your own reflections for episode 200!
The guys are back to Ovid this week for another pair of vignettes. First up it’s the tragic, would-be love affair between little-known Trojan prince Aesacus and his would be wooed Hesperia. Like Eurydice, Hesperia forgets her little galoshes, and is struck down by a deadly snake in the grass before Aesacus can catch her. Aesacus can’t handle it and goes full Greg Louganis, until the gods turn him into a diving bird. What is Ovid saying here about fate and love's destructive power? Then its on to Pomona who turns down every “prom-posal” till Vertumnus, the sylvan Cicero, gives it a go. Even then it’s no picnic…he’s forced to become his own “wing man”…er, woman? What’s the message? Stop chasing, fellas, and up your disguise and persuasion game? Tune in and find out. Also, don't miss the on-air drawing for the Plato prize.
What hath Athens to do with Jerusalem, Corinth with Philadelphia, or Ephesus with Ft. Lauderdale? Perennial questions these, no doubt, and it doesn't take a Tertullian to ask or answer them. Charles Sumner, Nathaniel "Crimson Digit" Hawthorne, James Fenimore Cooper, or Charles Francis Adams will do. Join the guys this week for the penultimate look at Carl Richard's taut, thrilling, barn-burner, as we peel back the layers on the relationship between Christianity and Classical culture at the apogee of the latter's popularity in those British castoffs, the former colonies. Does pagan morality dovetail nicely with the Christian faith, or is it sharply at odds? What of the antithesis between Christ's "love your enemies and pray for those who hate you", and the Homeric honor code of strict vengeance? Is this conflict real or imagined? And, just how much nudity is acceptable in statuary and painting, whether a Venus di Urbino, or George Washington, who, says Hawthorne, had so much gravitas that he was born clothed? All this and more, plus the usual servings of bad puns (not all Dave's, as it turns out). Don't miss this!
Check this one out! This episode is long overdue! All will be fine(s). Don't get all Dewey-eyed (and other book-borrowing puns)! This week the guys delve into the history (and some stubborn myths regarding it) of the Library of Alexandria. Most people have heard of its “burning”, but do the generally accepted versions of it hold water? Once you get past the cover it seems like things are a bit more complicated: it didn’t all burn down at once; it probably wasn’t the devastating, permanent loss of knowledge as it’s sometimes portrayed, and the whole pagan vs. Christian finger pointing doesn’t help. Join Jeff "Jamie Franklin Hyneman" Winkle and Dave "Adam Savage" Noe as they look at the ancient sources and the archaeology (or lack thereof), and attempt to get down to the nittus-grittus.
This week, Jeff and Dave wrap up the third installment in their brief series on Plato's Apology. So what exactly is Socrates' daimon? Is it like conscience, sometimes accusing, sometimes excusing? Is it similar to what the apostle Paul describes in Romans 2.14-15? If so, how come Socrates' inner voice never motivates him toward action, but only seeks to drive him away from something? And, is Socrates really being honest when he says he is no threat to traditional Athenian religion, seeing how his definition of the divine is anything but Homeric, but rather consists in a newly strict ethical conception, wherein the gods must -- gasp -- behave at least as well as their worshippers? And finally, what's Dave got against Shawshank? Is there any way to redeem this episode? O Chalupa, just tune in to find out!
Sorry (not sorry), it’s back to Plato’s Apology this week for round two. This time the guys tackle the nature of the elenchus—the method of question and answer that Socrates uses to get closer to the ‘truth’ and refute arguments of his interlocturos. How does it show up in the Apology itself? Is the elenchtic method a useful ‘truth-finding’ tool orjust a manipulative tactic not that far from what the Sophists peddled? Where does Socrates end and Plato begin? And how might this affect your opinion of the chalupa? We also turn to the great Gregory Vlastos for help as well as examining Socrates’ beef with the craftsmen. Be sure to listen for the magic word for the great Hackett giveaway.
At long last, Jeff and Dave get around to talking about the great granddaddy of all Western philosophy: Socrates. In this episode, the guys lay the groundwork for a look at Socrates' defense speech, the Apology. What were the social and political factors that contributed to putting the pug-nosed wonder on trial? How did the reign of the 30 tyrants, and Plato's aristocratic background, as well as Socrates'connections to great men like Pericles influence the content of the speech? This episode also examines the role of the elenchus, Socrates' system of question-and-answer refutation, in the development of ethical and moral teaching in the 5th century. Tune in for the instruction, the laughs, and a chance to win your copy of C.D.C. Reeve's A Plato Reader, from Hackett.
This week the guys finish up their look at Wycherley’s How the Greeks Built Cities. We pick up the text with a consideration of the “agora,” a term (as Wycherley emphasizes) that encompasses much more than the translation “marketplace” gets at. Yes, it was a center of business, but also politics, athletics, entertainment, philosophy, and education, while also giving rise to particular architectural features like the stoa. From there we delve into other key features that nearly every Greek polis had—religious shrines, gymnasia, stadiums. Where did the Greeks tend to place these things in their cities? We employ very similar structures and practices today, but do we use or understand them in the same way? After all that we cap it off with a look at residential life, and the form and function of a typical Greek house.
Jeff and Dave are back at the classical goodness this week, with a two-parter from R.E. Wycherly's slim yet substantive volume, How the Greeks Built Cities (1962). Did you ever wonder why today's cities are laid out in a grid pattern? Why here in the U.S. you can count eight blocks per mile? Why most contemporary cities have NE, SE, NW, and SW quadrants? Could this, too, be credited to the Greeks? Or is it just another crazy, Toula Portokalos figment? Spoiler alert: the Greeks strike again. The whole thing was the ingenious innovation of Hippodamus of Miletus, apparently a long-haired rascal, (Hippie-Damus?), who single-handedly revolutionized the design of cities in Attica, Italy, and Rhodes. His ideas (let's keep it all perpindicular, folks) caught on like wildfire. In this episode, we tackle the Preface and Chs. I-III. Chapter I: Growth of the Greek City; Chapter II: Greek Town-planning; Chapter III: Fortifications. And, be sure to tune in for the Herculean opening!
This week Jeff and Dave are wrapping up the Attic portion of their whirlwind tour through beginning Greek textbooks. On the menu today is the text of Donald Mastronarde, as well as Athenaze. After some introductory comments, i.e., a fine anecdote from Halik Kochanski's magisterial Resistance, the nit and the grit of Mastronarde's very thorough presentation is then duly engaged, with a discussion of the presentation of the verb εἰμί, types of the genitive and dative, and a close look at the exempla provided. Then, it's on to Athenaze, a handsome, readings-based text presented obviously with the neophyte student in mind, with engaging stories, clear presentations, excellent vocab. lists, and more. Finally, the guys wrap up with a tour through MossMethod, the 1893 public domain text that Dave has adapted (and tirelessly peddled) to a wordlwide audience. Don't worry, Adnavserinos, we will later cover New Testament (Koine) textbooks (Mounce, Wallace, Decker, Machen, etc.) as promised. Tune in for more gooey, listening goodness.
This one is a Thoreau-back! After a brief hiatus the boys are back in town following sojourns in Greece (Jeff) and South Africa (Dave). It’s also time for our annual “4th of July”(ish) episode—so we return to Carl Richard’s masterpiece, The Golden Age of Classics in America. This time the guys take a look at the era of Romanticism and the place the Classics held amongst America’s romantics and transcendentalists. Here we see a shift away from the empiricism of Aristotle toward the inner “mysticism” of Plato and a view that the ancients should not be models to be slavishly copied, but rather taken as representative of a spirit or nature to imitate, or by which to be inspired. So get down to the lake, get in that cabin, light that lantern and get your contemplation on.
The guys are back at it this week, with round two of the deep dive into textbooks for Attic Greek. After some opening shenanigans, a corrigendum, a choice quote from Basil of Caesarea, and a trip to Burrito Chime®, Jeff and Dave review some salient differences between Attic and Koine dialects, courtesy of P.V. Nunn (1920). Six, six total! Then it's off to textbooks by Hansen and Quinn and Keller and Russell. How robust should one's grammar-translation method be? How many omega-verbs do you need, and what's the right quotient of exercise sentences in a given chapter? All this and more is in store, so don't miss the usual depth and dippy drollery!
Attic? Koine? Both? Groten and Finn? Anne Groton's Alpha to Omega? Donald Mastronarde? Hansen and Quinn? This week Jeff and Dave start a short series on how to choose a Greek textbook. After a few moments strolling down memory lane (γε!), the guys get down to business with a brief discussion of the merits of studying the Attic vs. Koine dialects (more on that in the next episode). Then they walk through the first two books in the series, pointing out the standard structure for an introductory textbook and some strategies for getting your feet wet in the language. Episdoe 185 will go deeper into the standard college texts, before pivoting (everything's basketball) to the Koine books by Mounce, Wallace, and co. Oh, and MossMethod may come up at some point! If you've studied Greek, are teaching Greek, or are thinking about taking it up, then this episode could be a great entry point for your interests!
This week we head back to Carl Richard's masterpiece from 2009, and the guys are taking a careful look at Chapter IV: Nationalism. We start out with a nice definition and perspective from one of Dave's long list of overrated authors (does he like anybody?): C.S. Lewis. Clive explains to us from The Four Loves that every country has a dreary past of some shameful and shabby doings, but it's natural and good to love her nonetheless, within reason. Then we dive into the antebellum adulation of one George Washington. Is he Demosthenes, Cicero, Hannibal, Severus, Cincinnatus, Camillus? Or is he actually all of them rolled into one? Tune in for insights from Edward Everett, Calhoun, Walt Whitman, Daniel Webster, Frederick Porcher, and more, on everything from neoclassical revival to the vast American superiority over those doddering ancients. Along the way, you'll enjoy reminiscences of the celery fields of Jenison and rural Ionia County, Michigan, as well as one of Jeff's all-time best puns. And in the end, Marathon is Always Great Again.
So, is there a Homeric influence on the New Testament? Or, more specifically (per MacDonald), did Luke deliberately pattern and structure elements in Acts of the Apostles on episodes from Iliad 2? In this episode, the guys consider the case that MacDonald lays out, namely that Luke pairs the visions of Cornelius and Peter (in Acts 10 and 11) in a way that tags the Zeus-sent dream to Agamemnon and Odysseus’ recollection of the portent of the serpent and the sparrow. Does it hold up? Would a first century audience have recognized it as such? Are the linguistic parallels convincing? And perhaps the biggest question of all: why tag Homer in the first place?
In 2003, Dennis R. MacDonald published an important monograph with Yale University Press entitled: Does the New Testament Imitate Homer? Four Cases from the Acts of the Apostles. In the provocative opening salvo, MacDonald explains: ‘"'Who would claim that the writing of prose is not reliant on the Homeric poems?' This rhetorical question by a teacher of rhetoric requires a negative answer: no ancient intellectual would have doubted that the Iliad and the Odyssey informed the composition of prose, including potentially the stories of the New Testament." Come along this week as Jeff and Dave tackle the big questions about the form-criticism take on the New Testament vs. imitation (μίμησις). MacDonald lays out his six criteria, and we get into the nit and grit of some first century compositional realities. Is MacDonald's thesis ultimately persuaive? Did Luke in Acts imitate Vergil, Homer, neither, or something else altogether? It's a complicated topic, for sure, with a long and thus far intractable history.
Neoteric poetry is on the menu this week, as the guys take a close look at what Dave considers the most beautiful and moving poem from antiquity: Catullus 101. This is the famous threnody that Gaius Valerius Catullus (87-55 B.C.) addressed to his brother's ashes in Bithynia around 57 BC. The haunting lines of elegiac couplet compress a world of sorrow and sadness into 10 short verses. Along the way, Jeff explains how Catullus might have been a beat poet, and there's much discussion of what was driving the art and culture of the time. The one gentleman of Verona, the place that was a kind of Roman Hocking Hills, made his way to the capital city at the age of 22 and quickly put his name in lights with his brilliant and racy poetry addressed to cow-eyed Lesbia. Listeners will want to tune in for the new music, a brand-new sponsor (dellachelpka.art), and the usual, though moderated - given the weighty subject matter - hijinks. Check out A.S. Kline's translation of the poem here:
https://www.poetryintranslation.com/PITBR/Latin/Catullus.php#anchor_Toc531846828
It's time to blind you with some science! Jeff and Dave follow Marrou's masterful tome (Part II, Chapter VIII) back through the centuries to see what place the other, non-literary side of the education coin held in antiquity. In contrast to present-day obsessions with STEM, we learn that while branches of mathematics were held up as an ideal, they never really took pride of place in the general education of Greeks and Romans. Instead, despite Plato's and Isocrates' best efforts, much like today math was left to the experts. In fact, when the ancients did get their math, geometry, music, and astronomy on, they preferred them with a heaping dose of myth, magic, and mysticism (we're looking at you, Pythagoras). Come along for maybe the worst ever opening gag, some Mike Rowe inspired musings, a quick look at the Greek terror of infinity, and much more. Plus: the long-awaited drawing for the Ratio 4. Who will win?
The guys are excited this week to welcome into the studio (via Zoom) their colleague from Hope College Dr. Bram ten Berge. After coming close to a career in professional tennis (more on that in the show), Bram finished his B.A. in Classics at U. Miss and matriculated through U. Mich, graduating with the PhD in 2016. In this episode, we get to ask Bram, a topshelf scholar of Roman history and a specialist in Tacitus (c. 55-120 A.D.), all manner of recondite questions. Bram helps us sort through Tacitus' political consistency, his historiographical program, relevance to contemporary politics, and questions of Latin style. Based on his outstanding 2023 book Writing Imperial History: Tacitus from Agricola to Annales, Bram's acute expertise and conversational style are sure to appeal to aficionados of Roman history. If you like Tacitus and the writing of res gestae, this episode is game : set : match!
Jeff and Dave wrap up their look at Sophocles' Trachiniae this week, guided along by the inisghts of scholars such as Edwin Carawan and Charles Segal, whom you may remember from such things as what they wrote! Here's the crux of the matter: is the heroine Deianeira just a dopey, duped wallflower, innocently distributing hydra-soaked cardigans to kith and kin? The wronged party, seeking to salvage the remnants of a once healthy marriage? Or, is she actually a calculating, Machiavellian murderess, plotting all along against her rival Iole, more in the mold of Euripides' Medea or Phaedra? And what do we think about Heracles? Villain, hero, both? Along the way, have your imagination stimulated by frequent comparisons to the dynamics of Odysseus' family, the occasional snackish twang, and some free onomastic pointers. And, it's not too late to use coupon code PATRICKS17 or 10plus on the latinperdiem.com site to start your Greek or Latin journey.
This week the guys begin their look at Sophocles' "Women of Trachis", the one play among the surviving Sophoclean tragedies that scholars have scratched their heads over. The general feeling is that it's underdeveloped, lacking central themes, and just a mish-mash of other traditions. But is this true? Dave and Jeff explore the play's Herculean mythic background, and some Sophoclean tweaks to see if there might just be some hidden gems here. Note the empathy and heartache of Deianira, balanced by the coldness and suspicion of Heracles. Could it be that the academics were wrong about this one? Shocking, we know.
This week Jeff and Dave are back in the studio to discuss the leading light of early fourth-century Christian rhetoric. 'No whey', you say? Yes, it's true. The guys again take a look at the North African rhetorical tradition that produced such greats of Christian apologetics as Minucius Felix, Tertullian, Cyprian of Carthage, and Arnobius of Sicca. What should we make of Lactantius' accomplishment? Is he really the crème de la crème, or merely pushed forward by inevitable social forces, not an instance of the 'great man theory'? And what about his rhetorical feats in the grisly Deaths of the Persecutors, Divine Institutes, God's Workmanship, and more? Was Pico della Mirandola correct that Lactantius "equalled Cicero, or maybe even surpassed him in eloquence"? Come along for the ride as we wrap up this two-parter on the man who was well suited to his times, interacting with the cabbage-loving Diocletian, a host of enemies of the Christian faith, and even the big guy, Constantine.
And bee sure to check out Dave's free Latin lessons here:
Deaths of the Persecturors
Epitome of the Divine Institutes
This week the guys teeter on the edge of Late Antiquity, caught in that liminal space between pagan and Christian, west and east, Latin and Greek. And what better guide through it than Lucius Caecilius Firmianus Lactantius (the "Milkman"), the early Christian apologist who converted to the faith during Diocletian's persecution and ended up working for Constantine? Dave and Jeff spend the hour trying to assemble the threadbare, but fascinating biography of the man, all the while investigating such questions as: where does Lactantius stand in the larger picture of apologetics? What was his career like before his conversion? What does it mean to call him the "Christian Cicero"? And what's with all these North Africans punching above their weight? Is there something in that Carthaginian coffee? Lastly, speaking of coffee, if you're out driving and the brew in your tumbler is less than ideal, just try to keep 'er steady, ok? (Don't ask, just tune in).
This week Jeff and Dave leave aside that French guy (H.I. Marsomething) and go back to their OTHER book series, Carl Richard. What was happening in the early 19th century after the American founding? Pastoralism! Oh, the idyllic life of lounging with livestock, as the kine low loudly through the meadows. But there is also the counterattack of utilitarianism. After all, the business of America is business. So which view is going to dominate American culture? Will it be the Jeffersonian gentleman farmer, with his 40 acres, picturesque outhouses and a landscape larded with Roman villas (paging Wendell Berry)? Or will it be a Hamiltonian mercantile paradise, with everyone trading with their neighbor? And where do the Classics fit in all this? Come along as we take a Thoreau look at this question, complete with the Yale Report of Jeremiah Day, the full-scale assult on Classical languages, the counter-attack, and the daring denouement. You won't wanna miss this one. Listen up, or go barbarian.
On November 8th, 1977 archaeologist Manolis Andronikos made public one of the greatest finds of all time—the royal Macedonian tombs at Aigai (modern day Vergina), including what is likely the tomb of Philipp II himself. This week, the guys walk through this remarkable story and frame it within the chaotic historical context of the decline of Athens and the rise of Macedon in the 4th century BC. Using David Grant’s recent book, Unearthing the Family of Alexander the Great (Pen and Sword Military, 2019), Dave and Jeff address a number of the ongoing controversies surrounding the finds—why did these tombs survive while most others have been found looted? Is it really Philipp II in the larnax? If so, who is the mysterious “Scythian Queen” in the antechamber? Along the way, sample a bit of Demosthenes' Second Philippic, prepare yourself for Smarch weather, and soak up the inanities.
This week Dave and Jeff are back to Ovid for a couple more vignettes! The guys start with the bizarre tale of Erysichthon (the "Earth-Ripper") who lives up to his name by lumberjacking a sacred grove of Ceres. But why? Is this a prescient Lorax pre-boot? A morality play about late-stage capitalism? Or ust a guy who desperately wanted that Rumpus Room house addition? We're starving for answers. Then it's on to Cycnus ("Swany") and his fateful encounter with Achilles on the plains of Troy. Has Achilles met his match with someone as nearly "invincible" as he is, and who talks as much smack? How does this "win" of Achilles set the stage for his own demise? Of the three Cynci known in myth, why is this li'l cygnet the only who gets the full-fledged Metamorphoses treatment? Also, don't miss guest spots by Swan Carlos, Mr. T, and Stuart Little. I pity the fool who doesn't tune in!
This week Jeff and Dave are back to H. I. Marrou and all things ancient education. At first, Jeff has some trouble seeing how Marrou isn't simply repeating himself, but after a good buddy talk, this chapter reveals some fascinating insights. We see how formal education during the Hellenistic era (circa 336-31 B.C.) helped shape our definition of the "canon" of ancient works--a focus on foundational works, the primacy of Homer, and core representatives of poetry, drama, and rhetoric. You'll want to engage with Marrou's definition of Classical culture and the scale of values, and also have your fingers ready to count down the top 10 ancient poets, top 10 philosophers, top 10 artists, top 10 historians, etc. Come on, who doesn't love lists? Then cue the Stoic philosophers like Chrysippus to shake things up: what's more important, they ask, textual criticism, or teasing out deep and allegorical meanings even (or especially) when the text gets weird? And if the moral is not there, well then, you (or Bob Dylan) will just have to invent it yourself. Don't miss this one, and the secret Ratio 4 giveaway code word.
This week Jeff and Dave pick up an article (linked below) from Ernest Blum in the American Scholar (September 2008) on the once hugely popular (and now wholly neglected) interlinear method of language learning. 19th century businessman and aspiring pedagogue James Hamilton (1769–1831) found the Greek and Latin instruction of his time hopelessly slow and backward: "How . . . is it possible that a child should be chained to the oar, seven, eight, or ten of the best years of his life, to get a language or two, which, I think, might be had at a great deal cheaper rate of pains and time, and be learned almost in playing?" In response, Jimbo developed a system of fitting the translation, in this case English, directly below the line, which privileged reading above all other forms of study as the sole and proper method of learning. Jim made some extravagant claims about the Hamiltonian method's prospects for success: "Reading is the only real, the only effectual source of instruction. It is the pure spring of nine-tenths of our intellectual enjoyments. . . . Neither should it be sacrificed to grammar or composition, nor to getting by heart any thing whatever, because these are utterly unobtainable before we have read a great deal.” But is he right? What about spoken language acquisition? What about images? Games? And what about Zipf's law?
The guys examine the article and Blum's claims in light of their own language acquisition and instruction, comparing the Hamiltonian system to Loebs, the finer elements of Greek and Latin syntax, and what'er else strikes their fancy. Be sure to tune in for this and more, especially the secret code word to win a premium Ratio 4 coffee maker.
https://theamericanscholar.org/the-new-old-way-of-learning-languages/
In this second installment in a 2-part series, Dave and Jeff tackle some additional works that you avid nauserinos may want to add to your own library and reading list. Dave starts things off with some philosophical and theological musings, courtesy of The Justice of Zeus by Sir Hugh-Lloyd Jones (U. of California Press 1971). Then Jeff, in a nearly-Dionysiac frenzy, directs us toward Eric Robertson Dodds' The Greeks and the Irrational (UCP 1951). So, with typical, academic p̷a̷n̷c̷a̷k̷e̷ panache and restraint, the guys spend nearly 48 minutes on the first two titles. As the sand slowly slides through the hourglass, at last they turn to Dave's final choice, a real gem by A. Duane Litfin: St. Paul's Theology of Proclamation: 1 Corinthians 1-4 and Greco-Roman Rhetoric (CUP 1994). Some autobiography ensues as they grapple with the differences between Classical oratory and Christian preaching. Hey, it can't all be Ovid! Hac acroase fruamini, O amici!
After a short hiatus the guys are back, dipping into their personal libraries to present some of the secondary literature that has been influential in shaping their thinking as Classicists. As Jeff and Dave get a little wonky, longtime listeners may not be all that surprised at some of the choices here—Jeff’s picks traffic in mystery cults and mythic narratives, while Dave trots out works on Cicero, and political shifts in Roman history. Longtime listeners will also likely not be surprised that Jeff and Dave only get about halfway through their choices (so look for a part two!) Still, the guys manage to cover Walter Burkert's Ancient Mystery Cults, Manfred Fuhrmann's Cicero and the Roman Republic, Joseph Campbell's Hero with 1,000 Faces, Ronald Syme's The Roman Revolution, and Mary Lefkowitz' Black Athena: Revisited. Tune in for a lively discussion that includes not just the books themselves, but also defining secondary sources, and some of the odd ways in which studying the Classics can become politically charged.
Down in the Vomitorium it’s back to Marrou and his section on Primary School and Education in antiquity. Jeff starts the episode a little skeptical thinking this might be a bit of a snoozer, but he quickly comes around, especially once Dave starts dropping ancient vowel exercises like an old school hip-hop beat. Tune in as we sift through ancient debates which read very modernly—when should kids start school? How much should teachers get paid? How many vacation days can we squeeze into the calendar? How much does elementary school truly matter? And, what core subjects should be taught?
This week the guys resume a conversation begun in Episode 13! What's it like to be a book club of one, and what are the social dynamics when two book clubs of one meet temporarily to discuss, uh, books? Well, it's time to gorge and gourmandize on the written page, and it's not just Classics this time around. Jeff starts us off with some selections from Erik Larson, Jeffrey Toobin, Paul Jeffers, and Noel Monk, before finishing off with a bit of David Grant (Alexander's tomb) and Greg King (Leopold and Loeb). It's a main course of true crime, freemasonry, Alexander the Great, and EVH, as the book club dances the night away. Then it's Dave's turn, with volumes from Ed Feser (Five Proofs of the Existence of God), William Kauffman (American Brutus), Gaven Kerr (more Aquinas), and Richard Newman (Alma Rose). The tastes may not be similar, and dentistry gets more than a little airtime, but what's not to love about a garden, a library, a good cup of brew, and a wide-ranging discussion? Join our book club for an hour or so, or start one of your own.
It’s back to Ovid this week in the bunker for two more ingenious tales of transformation. We start in Book I by chewing our cud and patting our 8 tummies. It's the tragic bovine metamorphosis of Io, and the mournful response of her father, Inachus. Here we see the first internal writer and reader within the poem, as daughter reveals herself to dad by hoof-scratching her name in the dirt. Is this also the origin of Roman mourning rites? Then it’s a sylvan sashay back to the woods, where Jupiter (once again) is up to no good and Juno is (once again) directing her vengeance elsewhere, turning Callisto, her husband’s unwilling (once again) paramour, into a bear. What kind of gods are these? What place for mortals in all this? Is the transformation into a part of nature a blessing or a curse? And finally, has anyone located the edible, pulverized, skeletal muscle portion of the bullock?
This week Jeff and Dave resume their longstanding friendship with Henri-Irénée Marrou, "French historian" and "Christian humanist in outlook", for Part the 13th. It's Chapter IV -- "Artistic Education" -- of Part II -- Education in the Hellenistic Era --, which gets a thorough look this time. Drawing, instrumental music (both lyre and aulos), choral and accompanied song, dancing, and the decline of music and culture in education, everything's on the docket. Aristotle casts his long shadow over the age, and people's appreciation of music. Is it just for the professionals? Or, will there remain a place for amateurs to practice and appreciate the arts. It's a wide-ranging conversation, complete with awkward flashbacks to high school dances and talent shows. And, stick around for a little original music from Michael Kornelis. This one's got it all!
This week it’s back to Richards’ fascinating book, and finishing up our look at how the Classics were used as a lens for interpreting the American democratic experiment and living in a democratic society. Here the guys delve into how Rome functioned as a “law and order” counterbalance to the looser, “liberty” ideals of Athens, and how particular Roman men served as models for framing and lauding certain founding fathers (such as Cincinnatus for Washington). Cornelia also appears as a stand-in for the ideal American woman—Louisa McCord and Sarah Grimke saw her motherhood and intelligence as models worth imitating. But, look out—here comes Caesar (boo! hiss!) as the villain! Why did some Americans think Andrew Jackson’s “Julius” needed a “Brutus”?
This week, Jeff and Dave welcome into the studio seasoned translator Diane Arnson Svarlien, to talk about her new addition of three plays by the brilliant, scatological, Athenian comedian Aristophanes. Timed to the release of Hackett's new, attractive volume, Diane shares with us her own background in the Classics, how she became interested in Greek comedy, what it takes to translate iambic trimeters, pentameters, and more. Drawing from perhaps Aristophanes' three most popular send ups – Lysistrata, Ladies of Thesmophoria, and Addled Amphibians – the conversation ranges (and rages) widely. If you have been thinking about reading Aristophanes, dabbling in politics, the war between the sexes, and bathroom humor, or if you just want to know what it takes to make a great translation, don't miss this conversation with our friend Diane. Phlattothrattophlattothrat!
Note: the muse in this episode is pretty spotless, but if you sign up for the Aristophanes giveaway, you should have some sense of what you're getting in advance. For those with young children, please use discretion.
This week Jeff and Dave are back to antebellum America with a long and luxurious look at Chapter 2 from Carl Richard's 2009 masterpiece, The Golden Age of the Classics in America. This chapter, "Democracy", explains how the post-revolutionary generation navigated their loyalties to Cicero vs. Demosthenes, and Athens vs. Rome. Along the way, we talk through the woodsy triumvirate of Sam Houston, Andrew Jackson, and Abraham Lincoln, whether a Yankee could have any true knowledge of the Classics, what's up with Jackson's hair, and how to impress Cherokee girls (hint: it requires memorizing 500 pages of Pope's Iliad). It's a rough, wild world, where J. Q. Adams tries both to support Greek independence from the Turks, and uphold the Monroe Doctrine, and where -- within 20 days of the Alamo -- Colonel Travis was dubbed the American Leonidas. Nervous about listening? Remember the words of that $20 celebrity Pres. Jackson: "One man with courage makes a majority".
This week the guys take ya'll on a virtual tour of the ancient cult site Epidauros. As part of Jeff's continuing project of 3D reconstructions on archaeological sites, he helms us through a look at the origins of the famous ancient healer (or quack?), the abaton where invalids sought to meet the demigod in their dreams or be introduced to one of his snakey representatives, the theater, the stadium, the tholos site where Aesclepius' remains were said to be buried, and more. Is there a good explanation for Asclepius' apparent ability to heal? Was it all a fraud, power of suggestion, secret technology, or really supernatural? Be sure not to miss this geographical meander through one of the most beautiful - and off the beaten path - sites of Classical and Hellenistic Greece. Also, don't miss the 4th century A.D. church at the site's northwest corner, be sure to check out the site map here (link), and what's Dave's deal with mints?
This week the guys interview (via Zoom from Chicago) wandering troubadour Joe Goodkin, a singer/songwriter/guitarist who has traveled the world performing his intimate interpretations of Homer's Odyssey and Iliad. This lively conversation includes Joe's background as a Classics major at the University of Wisconsin, his dues-paying in rock bands in the Chicago area, and most of all his deep desire to meld his loves of ancient epic poetry and making music. Joe also performs a couple of his songs live on air which offer a taste of how effectively he zeroes in on Homer's deep and timeless understanding of human experience. And if all that doesn't grab you, it's worth it to hear Dave get irritated when grunge gets mentioned. You can find Joe's work here:
https://www.thebluesofachilles.com
https://www.joesodyssey.com
https://www.joegoodkin.com
Jeff and Dave are at it again, with a veritable pent, hept, dec -athlon of "Physical Education" bits and blocks, and a major excursus on the centrality of sport to Greek educational culture. Sure, you think you like sports, with your Big 10, your PAC 12, your SEC, your NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, WNBA, MLS, FIFA, FIDE, etc. But trust us, your devotion to sport -- no matter how strong and thriving, no matter how many bags of chips, plates of nachos, and crates of confetti you have on hand for your season -- is nothing compared to the Hellenistic Greeks. In this XIIth installment of Marrou's classic work, the guys take you through all the major events: running (don't miss the donut table), long jump, discus, javelin, wrestling, boxing, and pancratium (don't ask). You won't want to miss the opening gag, or Jeff shouting slogans to wrestling hopefuls near the end (and Racko, so much Racko).
This week sees the return of active Latin guru Patrick Owens, live via Zoom to discuss his 2016 article “Barbarisms at the Gate”. In this piece Patrick delves into the current state of the use of spoken Latin in language acquisition and in particular some of the pitfalls and challenges that remain. The guys get into the particulars of the history of Latin and how one goes about translating English terms, like "vacuum cleaner", into spoken Latin accurately. How is that Latin is “immutable”? How do you go about coining Neo-Latin terms and still remain true to the essence of the language? As teachers, how do we make sure that the “spoken” element is always bringing us “back to the text”? Tune in also to hear Patrick’s own fascinating backstory, in particular his study with Reginald Foster at the Vatican and his life in an Italian spoken Latin community.
This week Jeff and Dave continue their look at Carl Richard's 2009 masterpiece on Classics in America. As Richard surveys the antebellum landscape, there are some surprises in store. For example, devotion to the Classics, to the expanding literary reign of 'Tully' was not limited to the eastern elite along the seaboard. Even in the hinterlands, rustic frontier types were clutching copies of Cicero's Catilinarians. And, with the war for Greek independence raging abroad, Lord Byron and others fostered a wave of Hellenism that swept through American schools. No longer did the Romans dominate. Now, Aeschylus, Euripides, Xenophon, and a host of others--both in the original and in translation--rode a wave of new found popularity. Perhaps most surprisingly, the President of Yale Jeremiah Day briefly considered appointing a Prof. of Whittling. So grab your penknife, your whittlin' gloves, a jug of Mountain Dew, and tune in!
This week we salute American independence with a dive into Carl Richards’ fascinating tome The Golden Age of the Classics in America (2009). The guys begin with a look at the state of Classical education during the antebellum era, frontloading the discussion with questions as to why Classical education was the default at this time: did Americans believe such an approach produced virtuous and clear-thinking citizens? Was it that Greece and Rome provided a gold standard after which America should model itself? Or was it just trying to stay hip because it was what all those German cool kids were already doing? From there the episode turns to Classical curricula in 19th century schools and who exactly could access this stuff (hint: it wasn’t just for those uppity wig-wearers).
This week the guys wrap up the second portion of Marrou's chapter on the ancient ephebia, that system of education for boys ags 14-21 that was popularized by the city of Athens and which spread to more than 100 cities around the Mediterranean during the Hellenistic era. What were the features of this system, and how did they vary from polis to polis? What happened when the generosity of local benefactors, euergetes, couldn't be tapped anymore for resources? How did public funding come into play? What about all of those multiplied titles, the various underlings who supervised the various underlings who supervised the athletes? If you are interested in golf, polo, tennis, and the aristocracy, this is one you won't want to miss.
This week the guys are back into Marrou and off into the history of education during the Hellenistic Era. Contrary to what one might think, following the transformation of the world after the conquests of Alexander, the world of education did not become centralized and governed from on high by the potentates of succeeding dynasties. In fact there was eclectic mix (as does befit this time period) of things happening--certainly a recognition that the State did have an interest in fostering education (especially of the elites) but largely in a hands-off manner that left decisions to local municipalities; a shift away from private to public education but also with a "throw-back" emphasis on a sporting/military ideal at the same time; Athens now a vassal state of the Macedonians but still held up as the model of what higher education should be. Tune in, and remember, if you're still short a few credits it's never too late to go back and finish up your ephebia. Wait, actually it might be.
Dave and Jeff are off to Abonoteichus this week to wrap up Lucian of Samosata's crazy account of Alexander the False Prophet. If you like crazy, you're going to love this episode. It has a bit of everything: Big Sid the Standale Terror, Jeff's dad sporting with fugitive serpents, the origin of mustard, food trucks, snakes in a can, and so much more. And, oh yeah, Classics. As the Second Sophisitic (c. 60-230 A.D.) got into full swing, Lucian emerged as the most successful satirist, detaling the foibles of the rich, the famous, and the divine. In this conclusion to our treatment of his lesser-known story, we find out what happened when Alexander of the flowing locks teamed up with shsyter apprentice Cocconas. Will they go a-bilking in Paphlygonia -- with their fake eggs, rumors of Asclepius, and puppet snakes -- or are the "fatheads" more numerous in Chalcedon? Tune in to find out.
This week Jeff and Dave take a break from the Marrou series to talk about 2nd century A.D. satirist Lucian of Samosata. Born in the further reaches of Asia Minor, Lucian made a name for himself as a Greek stylist by making fun of the rich and powerful, including the gods. Many claim him as the inventor of the science fiction genre because of his most famous work, A True Story. This fantastic voyage seems to anticipate Jules Verne and H.G. Wells by almost 2000 years! But the subject of this episode is Lucian's take on the fraudulent shyster Alexander, a good looking chap (with great hair) who worships a snake god leads and many astray. But what exactly is Lucian doing? Is this all a game to entertain the elite, or is he trying to educate the gullible away from belief in the supernatural and paranormal? And, what do Erasmus and Thomas more have to do with it all? Be sure to tune in.
This week Jeff and Dave continue on with Marrou's clues, finishing up the last portion of Chapter VII, Part I, Isocrates, and taking on all of Chapter I, Part II, "The Civilization of the Paideia". For Isocrates, the comparison to Plato continues, particularly with respect to the question of the teaching and inculcation of virtue. Is it possible, and if so, how is it done? Don't miss Marrou's thought-provoking concluding remarks on the relationship between P and I, how they "enriched the classical tradition without disturbing its unity." In the next portion, the guys get into the question of paideia, an old and storied concept. Specifically, how does culture, according to Marrou, become religion, and how is this a part of Alexander's enduring influence? Finally, the theme of the whole second portion of the episode focuses on how classical education took on its finalized, concrete form during the Hellenistic era (323-31 B.C.), and "thereafter it underwent no substantial change".
Isocrates, You socrates, Hesocrates? This week Jeff and Dave are back at it with the work of H. I. Marrou and education in antiquity. Here they tackle the last bit of Part I of the book, Chapter VII, and the groundbreaking "humanist" Isocrates. Born in 436, he spent the first part of his career as a "hired gun" speech-writer, before developing an influential -- and profitable -- school for rhetoric. But if you have never heard of this guy, no wonder. He has spent the last two millennia trying to creep out from beneath Plato's massive shadow. So just what is the purpose of rhetoric and dialectic? Is it to get to the truth, à la Plato, or should we veer more toward Isocrates' perspective, that rhetoric, honed by literary study, develops us into persons who are moral and useful to the state? Isocrates certainly had the time to develop his ideas, as he championed nascent Panhellenism to the rip old age of 98! Along the way, the hits keep coming, and the fallout from Jeff's opening pun is massive. Finally, don't miss the tease about how Plato spent his last days, link.
This week Jeff and Dave welcome into the studio Classicist extraordinaire and all around good guy Dr. Kirk Summers. We should probably also mention that Kirk is a Prof. of Classics at the University of Alabama in Birmingham, former co-owner of the Red Cat Coffee Houses in the same city, and one of the world's leading experts in Theodore Beza. And he still finds time to root for the Alabama Crimson Tide. Kirk drops by to talk about one of his earliest works on Beza, A View from the Palatine. First published in 1548 before his conversion to the Protestant faith, Beza issued this collection of poems, Sylvae, much in the style of Catullus, Martial, and other Roman love poets. This got him into a little bit of hot water, as Kirk explains. Along the way, we hear how Beza's early training in the humanities shaped him for a career in theology and polemics, about his wife Claudine Desnosse (that she was not Candida of his poetry), and some of bases views on the relationship between Christianity and the ancient Greeks and Romans. All this and more can be yours, if you can survive Dave's first, atrocious pun.
Herein Dave and Jeff resume their tour through Henri-Irénée Marrou's ground-breadking volume on ancient education. We wrap up Chapter VI, "The Masters of the Classical Tradition", and see what Plato thought about mathematics, elementary education, gymnastics, plastic-segmented jumpropes, playing the triangle and blocks in Kindergarten, and more. How was Plato's Academy organized? Was it a rigorous shool for political science, a training ground for the abstruse, esoteric, and recondite? Or did it mostly exist in Plato's mind, a thought experiment akin to not ever seeing an actual circle? We tackle these and other questions, including "What are the olfactory nuances of the Athens Metro ride to Piraeus on a sunny January day?" This is something we wall want to know, so tune in!
This week tune in as the guys interview one of the greatest and most prolific translators of this and the previous century—Dr. Stanley Lombardo. In this conversation we hear about Stanley’s early education where he was, yes, drawn to Greek and Latin but especially the rhythms and performance of poetry. The idea that these ancient works were meant to be performed and heard (not read silently) has always been at the center of his attempts to make these texts sing and become something new. So how does he do it? How does oneyou thread that needle of “staying close to the original text” while “making it new for a contemporary audience”? How do different authors lend themselves to different approaches? And how do you accompany your own poetry with a drum?
This week the guys welcome back good friend, former colleague, and two-time Newberry Medal honoree, young-adult writer Gary Schmidt. How did Jeff and Dave manage that? Well we invited him in, and just like that he accepted our invitation. He found the studio comfortable, or at least okay for now, but the conversation was more than a little bit super. We focused on his 2023 novel The Labors of Hercules Beal, a rip-roaring adaptation of the strongman's 12 tasks, with cats, coyotes, a katabasis, a sculpted hippo, and more. Like so much of Gary's work, it is a beautiful tragicomedy, blending moments of hilarity with unvarnished reflection on suffering. So, pay attention, Carter Jones (and everyone else), and stay out of trouble. And for our younger listeners, from the first boy to the last girl, regardless of what planet you orbit, this one is a can't-miss!
This week, Jeff and Dave resume their woolly perambulations through the wonders of Henri-Irénée Marrou's august volume on ancient education. Specifically, we look at Chapter VI, entitled "The Masters of the Classical Tradition" to get our bearings on Plato's pedagogical revolution. Along the way, we ask, and seek to answer, such questions as: What is the Socratic method? What is the relationship between σοφία and practical efficiency? How many students did Plato have that pursued, and acquired, political power (the number is high)? How was the Academy organized? And, what is the genus of pumpkin? If you're interested in education, Plato, stale Simpsons references, Celine Dion, and more, then let's just say:
This podcast can touch you one time
And last for a lifetime
And never let go 'til we're gone...
This week the guys are joined in the Bunker (via Zoom) by scholars Anne Larsen (emerita, French, Hope College) and Stephen Maiullo (Classics, Hope College) for a fascinating discussion of the “Minerva of Utrecht” and "Tenth Muse", Anna Maria van Schurman (1607-1678). Van Schurman was not only an accomplished painter, engraver, and calligraphist, she was also a phenomenally gifted linguist and classical scholar at a time when such was virtually unheard of among women. Tune in to hear about the challenges in translating the Latin of her books and letters into English (for the first time!), and of van Schurman’s extraordinary life in which she went head-to-head with the scholars of her day, made a name for herself in the “Republic of Letters”, and laid out a groundbreaking case for the education of women.
This week Dave and Jeff welcome back into the studio (this guy's becoming a regular!) our longtime friend, mentor, former colleague, and teacher, the inestimable Ken Bratt. You may know him from such episodes as "From there We Travelled to Philippi" (46), and, "A Visit to the Roman Catacombs" (76). For this go 'round, Ken reaches back into the more distant, misty past, as he talks a little about why he chose Herodotus for his doctoral dissertation at Princeton. Using a 1968 article by J.A.S. Evans entitled, "Father of History or Father of Lies: The Reputation of Herodotus", Ken leads us through questions of Herodotus' purpose, methods, theism, charm, and style. Was the man of Halicarnassus a mere credulous stooge, or is there something deeper going on? Does he really deserve such negative comparisons to Thucydides? And what about the urination practices of Egyptians? Tune in for this and more.
In the beginning was the…conversation? In this episode Jeff and Dave tackle a fascinating 1977 article by Marjorie O’Rourke Boyle in which she reviews the history of the translation of John 1:1, particularly the Latin words used to express the Greek ὁ λόγος (logos), usually taken in English as “Word”. We learn that the earliest Latin translations used the word sermo (“conversation”), which seems to have a broader range of meanings and referents (connotation vs. denotation) than the verbum Jerome selected, and which then dominated translations for a millennium. And just when you thought it was safe to crack open the Vulgate, along comes Erasmus in 1516, who rocks the theological and philological worlds by suggesting a return to sermo. Which word better expresses the range of the Greek logos? How might our choice change the way we read John 1:1?
This week, Jeff and Dave continue on their stroll through the wonders of Marrou's volume on ancient education. Specifically, they look at Chapter V and the question of the Sophists. Men like Protagoras, Gorgias, and Prodicus were doing something new and unusual at the close of the fifth century, no doubt. And that something was -- wait for it -- selling education! Many arch-conservatives like Plato and Aristophanes did not take to it kindly. But is there any way to sort the wheat from the chaff? How can we know that what Plato tells us about the Sophists is the genuine article, and not just some envious hyperbole? Were these traveling salesman peddling snake oil, or could they really teach how to govern a state properly, the πολιτικὴ τέχνη. And if so, does that constitute ἐπιστήμη? Come along for a lively discussion, complete with the usual round of questionable puns, absurd asides, and just a dash of inanity. Before long, you'll be eating at the Midway food court just like the rest of us. Did someone say M-Burger?
This week the guys have the honor of interviewing kids/young adult author Caroline Lawrence (The Roman Mysteries and Roman Quests series, along with many others!) Ms. Lawrence is beaming in to us from London, where she writes her books overlooking the mighty Thames itself. And she's no pretender when it comes to the Classics--she comes to London by way of Classics degrees from Berkeley and Cambridge. Tune in to hear about her own fascinating journey from enthusiast to author, about how she shapes her stories from visits to museums and archaeological sites, and about how she incorporates her knowledge of Latin, Greek, and Hebrew into her fiction. We're sure you'll come away with a new love for Hero Journeys, for following one's passions, for London itself and maybe even apotropaic pillows!
This week the guys tackle Chapter IV of H.I. Marrou's monumental work, entitled "The 'Old' Athenian Education". Relying on Aristophanes, Thucydides, Solon, and others, Marrou explains how the Athenians decided to lay down their weapons within society, and soon after education was democratized. So, “the decisive step" was taken from a warrior to a scribe culture, and education was no longer exclusively military. There was a predictable reaction from conservative elites: they sprinted to their Formula 1 roadsters, hotrodding their chariots like any Verstappen, Leclerc, or Russell. Long-haired, aristocratic young dandies stuck to their horses, even as the common peasant, baker, or cobbler sent his son off to the schools of the rhetors to learn how to make the weaker argument stronger. With this new aristocratic ideal, the development of new institutions was needed, and thus was born the epoch-making school. And despite Socrates' trenchant skepticism that arete can be taught, many claimed to teach it, and thus Sophistry surged (which takes us to Chapter V and next time). So, tune in for the Solonic Greek couplets, the KALOKAGATHIA, the mid-winter Michigan nasal congestion, the brawny chicken (Pollo Loco!), and at least one atrocious limerick.
This week the guys tackle the subject of American Urban Legends with an eye to what classical cultural and narrative archetypes tell us about why these weirdo tales can be so, well, weird. Jeff eagerly (a little too eagerly, Dave might say) drags us into those liminal spaces as we recount the odd tale of the hatchet-wielding, murderous Bunnyman of Clifton, Virginia who creepily lies in wait at the train trestle known as Bunnyman Bridge. All kinds of questions to tackle here: Why do so many urban legends take place at bridges and crossroads? Why are so many of the creatures involved “composite monsters”? Could we see kids visiting these creepy sites at midnight as a kind of “do-it-yourself” coming of age ritual? Why are most urban legends not “urban”?
This episode is part 3 of the guys’ walk-through of Marrou’s seminal book on education in antiquity. We pick up where the last episode left off with a wrap-up of ancient Spartan education and a look at several questions: What caused Spartan artistic culture to (fairly quickly) calcify and disappear? To what degree can we actually know what Spartan education was, given that so much of our information is filtered through the so-called “Spartan Mirage” loved by Athenian aristocrats? Then we turn our attention to the delicate matter of the role of pederasty or “Greek Love” in ancient education, not out of any salacious or prurient motive but because—to paraphrase Xenophon—any discussion of ancient Greek education would be incomplete without tackling this subject.
The guys are back for Round 2 in our look at the history of education in antiquity through the lens of Marrou’s book. This time we zero in on the ancient Spartans. Wait, Spartans??? Weren’t those guys just a bunch of beefed-up lunkheads whose only education was how to better kill the enemy on the battlefield? Well, not quite. In fact, we learn that the Spartans actually led the way when it came to a number of arts—poetry, music, dance—in addition to their noted emphasis on physical fitness. They did, however, have issues when it came to spelling and ancient versions of spandex. Don’t ask, just tune in!
Join us this week as Dave and Jeff launch le paquebot onto the deep waters of pedagogical history, namely, H. I. Marrou's seminal work The History of Education in Antiquity. Written in 1956 by a very learned Frenchman, and translated into English by Charles Lamb, the work is a sweeping review, artfully written, of how education functioned from the very beginnings of Western civilization down to the end of antiquity in the fifth century A.D. With Marrou as guide, the guys begin to examine such pressing questions as, what's a proper definition of education, can Classical education exist today, and, will they succeed in escaping the book's Introduction before the clock runs down on the episode? Join us for the first in this multi-parter.
This week Jeff and Dave wrap up their 3-parter on Aeschylus' famous play. When Io mooves onto the scene, her first impulse is to show compassion for the shackled Promy, even though she herself is writhing in gadfly-induced agony. Why? To seek an answer, we take a long look at the thesis of Stephen White, namely that the play subtly reinforces ancient Greek gender roles: women are to be complaisant and domestic (something Io has transgressed), while men's ingenuity ought not threaten the social order (as Prometheus has done). But is this a persuasive way to look at the plot, or even helpful? What does the play mean, and can Bernad Knox shed any light on that question? Stick around, and we'll get it all sorted.
It's time for round two of Aeschylus' tragedy Prometheus Bound, and Dave and Jeff are back at it with a careful look at the role of Ocean in his dialogue with the titular hero. Relying on the work of David Konstan, the guys discuss some of the interesting dynamics at play in the stichomythia, as well as some inner workings of the chorus of Ocean's daughters, the Oceanids. Is there a political subtext of democracy and tyranny at work here? How does the poet deal with universal and timeless themes of suffering and hardship against the very real background of fifth-century Athenian politics? How does this piece compare to the poet's own Agamemnon, Sophocles' Oedipus Rex, or Euripides' Hippolytus? Tune in as we rely on Prof. Deborah Roberts' excellent translation and notes to take us through the deceptively simple plot of this timeless masterpiece. Warning: there are some awful puns strewn throughout this show.
This week Jeff and Dave - with the help of Prof. Deborah Roberts (Emerita, Haverford College) - begin their look at tragedian Aeschylus' magnum opus, Prometheus Bound. We get started with Prof. Roberts providing a lovely reading of the central passage of the play, in which Prometheus explains the many kindnesses he has wrought for the human race. Then we follow up by setting the table with the briefest of looks at the development of tragedy. Next, we dig into the main course with a bit of Greek from the play's opening, and the fascinating dialogue between smith god Hephaestus and the personifications Power (Κράτος) and Violence (Βία). In addition to examining the perennial central questions of how this telling differs from Hesiod, whether Zeus can be just while mistreating so severely one of his own – who fought for him in fact in his war against the other Titans – we also take a few glances at the vexed question of who really wrote the play. And if threnodic literature is not your cup of tea, don't worry, there are many wretched puns and inane surrealities along the way.
It's time for Jeff and Dave to finish off their brief foray into all things Philistine and Mycenaean. This week we wrap up our look at Neal Bierling's short but deep monograph on the state of excavation in Palestine. After a quick review of inscriptional and ceramic evidence, the Phaistos Disc, anthropoid coffins, and more, the conversation takes us on to the different eras in Philistine history: Judges to David, David to Solomon, Solomon to Hezekiah, and finally to the eventual dissolution or absorption of the Philistine people at the time of Babylonian Nebuchadnezzar's devastating invasion. Things get a little testy in the vomitorium when it comes to the trickster archetype, Jungian analogues, and the exact relationship between Samson and Hercules (and Paul Bunyan?) So tune in for what we hope was a careful thinking through the issues, some silly laughs and (on Dave's part) horrible puns, and a big announcement from one of our sponsors, RatioCoffee.
Does the name Neal Bierling mean anything to you, dear listener? No? Well it will after this episode. Bierling's 1992 monograph Giving Goliath his Due is our theme this week and next, and it's a thorough, exhaustively researched look at the close connection between the Mycenaeans of Atreus and Agamemnon and those inveterate opponents of the biblical Israelites known as the Philistines. In this first half, we look at the evidence of archaeology and epigraphy, including Egyptian steles and anthropoid burial objects, olive-oil production, feather headdresses, and Goliath's bronze-age armor. Along the way, learn of the Mice-smasher Apollo Smintheus, the Philistine's desperate attempt to return their war trophy the Ark of the Covenant, and the overwhelming, almost ironclad (get it?) evidence that the Mycenaeans who fought at Troy became the Philistines of the pentapolis (Gaza, Ashdod, Ekron, etc.) Don't miss the startling similarity between Iliad I and I Samuel 4-6.
This week Jeff and Dave wrap up their two-part series on the Homeric Hymn to Demeter. Here we learn about Demophoon, infant child of Queen Metaneira of Eleusis. It seems he has a problem with mortality, and Demeter has the cure: nightly fire purgations. As the kids say, "srsly?" But things don't go so well when the blazing goddess of grain is caught in the act of burning off Demophoon's (not huggable but mortal) portions, and rather than wreak havoc on the innocent inhabitants of Eleusis, she decides to set up a cult and allow them to worship her. Meanwhile, what about Persphone? Hey girl, beware the pomegranate! Tune in for an update on Dave's Greece trip, the usual, blithe and bland banter, and maybe a pun or two about Grape Nuts. As the kids say, "Whaaa?"
After a welcome hiatus for all of us (especially you, listener), Jeff and Dave are back in the studio for a look at the archaic hymn to the goddess Demeter. Was this intended to be used in the ritual and liturgy of the mystery cult, or is it just a breezy, Saturday afternoon matinee poem? Clocking in at 495 lines, how does this eypllion differ from the shorter poems from the seventh century? What is a mystery religion, how does this one compare to the cults of Mithras and Dionysus, and exactly how small do scientists intend to make tomatoes, while being sure we will still ingest them? Tune in for the answers to these and other pressing questions as the summer rolls along.
This week Jeff and Dave talk about Milo of Croton, by all accounts the most accomplished athlete of antiquity. This incredible individual was the winner of multiple Olympiads, strongman, wrestler, supposedly deadlifting a stone of more than 1100lbs. The ancients like Pausania, Galen, Strabo, Cicero and more were fascinated not only by his tremendous physical prowess, but equally by his enormous appetite for food and drink. Did he really eat an entire heifer in one sitting? Along the way we look at the Olympic Games, have a short travelogue to Olympia and Nemea, discuss Mohammed Ali, Babe Ruth, Michael Jordan, Michael Phelps, Flo Jo, and more. It's summer, get out, be active, and take AdNavseam along on your workout. You won't regret it. Maybe if you do enough reps you can snap your headband, like Milo, just by flexing the blood vessels in your head!?
Wait a minute…this STILL sounds like rock and/or roll, or at least the synthy stuff wants to. Join Johnny Pop Winkle and Ye Olde Curmudgeon for a look at seven songs inspired by the Classics. From Abba, to Clientele, Utopia, Perfect Circle and more, you'll get to hear Jeff's perfect aesthetic judgment tear like a buzz saw through Dave's carefully curated, gross ignorance of most "music" from 70s through to today. What rhymes with Lysistrata? And why not a song about Thesmophoriozusae? Should be catchy. Hey, it can't be all discussion of translating endusted Latin tomes, grave and staid epics, the dignity of man, and so forth. Kick back, tune in, and remember, at AdNavseam, you've got friends in low places.
This week it’s back to the bottomless well of Ovidian goodness with a walk through a couple more vignettes. The guys start off with a look at the well-known tale of Arachne. While the “hubris-meets-nemesis” theme does seem to be at the heart of the story, there are some striking bits of context that complicate simple interpretations—is Minerva primed to punish from the tale that precedes this one? Does Arachne truly know what she’s getting into or who she’s dealing with? Then it’s on to another of Naso’s greatest hits—King Midas and the Golden Touch. As we zero in on the details reveals we find here as well a much richer tale than the usual Cliffs Notes version—How does this tale play with the "deadly wish" motif? What about the aetiology of the River Xanthus? And, wait, where is Midas' petrified daughter? Isn’t she always part of this thing? Tune in to find out.
This week we sit down for a fascinating, lively discussion with author Margalit Fox about her 2013 book, The Riddle of the Labyrinth: the Quest to Crack an Ancient Code. The story centers around the race to decipher the mysterious “Linear B” script. The first large supply of this script was uncovered on clay tablets on Crete by archaeologist Sir Arthur Evans in 1900, but remained a puzzle for years after Evans failed to crack it. Young genius (and amateur scholar) Michael Ventris has long been famous for finally getting the job done in 1952, but is that all there is to the story? Ms. Fox introduces us to classicist Alice Kober of Brooklyn College as the woman who dedicated her life to solving the mystery and is truly the unsung heroine in the narrative. Tune in and hear how Kober’s painstaking, deliberative work paired with Ventris’ own extraordinary skills finally solved one of the great archaeological mysteries of our time.
This week Jeff and Dave take a look at the 5 canons of classical rhetoric, and how it is that great orators like Aeschines, Demosthenes, and Cicero gave their speeches to such successful effect. Was it nature? Were these men endowed with towering genius and preternatural giftedness? Yes, of course. Or was it nurture? Did they write speeches according to a fixed and carefully honed set of formulae? Yes, of course. This wide-ranging discussion has plenty of the nitty-gritty of the exordium, collocatio, etc., but we also look at some of the broader issues of what makes human communication effective – or not. You won't want to miss this one, especially if you are a teacher or practitioner of rhetoric. And as Aristotle explains, that's all of us.
Well ladies and gentlemen, this podcast within a podcast has finally come to an end: Jeff and Dave, at long last (denique, tandem, demum) have reached the final episode on the Aeneid. We start out by looking at how the end of the Iliad and the end of the Aeneid compare, verge off into some Shakespearean and Miltonian digressions, recite some beautiful Latin poetry, talk about Annie Lennox, and round it all off with a look at interpretive possibilities from a wide range of 20th century scholars. These include: Bowra, Elllingham, Brooks, Lewis, Parry, Putnam, and Commager. Who is correct in their interpretation of the Aeneid? When the ancients said that Vergil's twin purposes were to "rival Homer" and "praise Augustus all the way back to his ancestors", were they correct? Or is the man from Mantua up to something quite different and more subtle? Should we go with the revisionist interpretation – adopting Jeff's maxim "the Romans were wrong"– or side with the traditional school? Pull up your can of Campbell's Soup, make your way to your own Fortress of Solitude, and settle in for a rip-roaring interpretive ride.
This week, Jeff and Dave get back to the Aeneid after a brief, Tarzanian hiatus. As the epic nears its end, we witness the intense and interesting interplay between Turnus and the titular hero. Aeneas seems quite secure in his fate, but still he begins the move from representing civilization to savagery. Turnus, on the other hand, ricochets between the poles of Hector and Achilles: sometimes cruel and bloodthirsty, other times sympathetic and winsome. What does Vergil really want us to think about these hulking war machines? Why does Lavinia blush? What's gotten into Amata? And most importantly, why won't Jeff mow his lawn? These questions and more we will seek to answer over the course of 70 tedious, grueling minutes. Still, you might just find this episode the bees' knees.
This week Jeff and Dave wander back into the lush, crowded undergrowth of Edgar Rice Burroughs' prose, guided by the inimitable Erling B. "Jack" Holstmark. Does the vine-swinging, croc-wrestling, ape-aping Tarzan really have anything to do with Odysseus? Hercules? Neither? Or does Dave's late Prof. have a case of academicitis, "seeing what's not there"? Come along with us as we finish up looking at the abiding influence of Animals, Hero, and Themes, the final chapter of Holtsmark's 1981 monograph. And remember, "We live in a world of illusion, where everything's peaches and cream. We all face a scarlet conclusion, but we spend our time in a dream." You're going to (jungle) love this episode! Just make sure that crate of papaya doesn't wait all night by your door.
The guys are back, and this time they are taking a break from the Aeneid series to focus on the appearance of classical themes and inspiration in an unexpected place: the 20th century pulp fiction novels of Tarzan. Aided by the brilliant monograph of Dave's late grad school professor, Dr. Erling B. "Jack" Holtsmark, we examine such questions as, What standards should popular literature be held to? What makes for good diction and characterization? Is Tarzan in the mold of Achilles? Along the way we look at some structures of Greek and Latin style, including polarities, chiasmus, and parallels. If you enjoyed the Tarzan books or movies as a kid, this is a vine time to renew your interest as we burroughs deep into the jungle of Tarzaniana.
In this episode, Jeff and Dave finish off their tour through and analysis of the penultimate book of Vergil's masterpiece. Here we have the jazz-solo moment, the aristeia of the great warrior princess Camilla. She flies across the battlefield at breakneck speed, cutting down in her path every Trojan stooge who dares stand in her way – until she meets "Arruns the Dispatcher", ironically named after an Etruscan prince. But this fast-paced, high-octane action vignette raises some complex questions, the very kind academics love to dilate upon: how come Camilla never encounters Aeneas himself? Why is the erstwhile hero Turnus so passive throught this part of the story, not providing the kind of leadership expected of a protagonist? And most importantly, has anyone used double-blind, controlled studies to determine the real benefits and side effects of daily consumption of horse milk on female Volscian infants? Tune in.
Remember way back when the Trojans were “eating their tables”? Well, in Book 11 their tables seem to be turning. Seems like just yesterday Aeneas was raging as Rambo and Turnus was carrying himself with Hector-like respectability. Sed ecce!—Aeneas is handing out truces like sticks of Big Red and actually validating hurt Latin feelings, while Turnus’ allies are turning against him and blaming him for the whole mess. Even old Diomedes is once bitten, twice shy, telling the Latins there is no way he’s tangling with Venus or her son ever again. So that’s it? It’s over? Not quite—Turnus has a couple of aces up his sleeve, including a spear-swift, water-walking, grain-skipping warrior maiden who is juuuuuust over the horizon.
This week there’s more gore in store for shor as Aeneas gets his rage on and goes full Achilles. The carnage reaches such a fever pitch that it raises a number of sticky questions: Is Aeneas just a puppet of Fate? If so, can we hold him culpable for the horrible things he perpetrates on the battlefield? When does embossing your baldric with mythic scenes stop being a flex and start being a “bit much”? Keep your head down, dodge those flying body parts, and see if you can tell who’s who as Aeneas meets his possible doppelganger between spear chuckings. You know what they say—double your alter ego symbolic foreshadowing stand-ins, double your fun.
Check out Jeff's new "Peregrinatio" series (Google Earth Archaeological Virtual Tours):
Ancient Dodona (the Oracle of Zeus)
Ancient Epidauros (the healing sanctuary of Asklepios)
This week Jeff and Dave are back at the Aeneid, wading into some deep waters murky and redolent with the unfulfilled wishes of Jupiter. As full-scale war erupts on the Latian plain, Venus and Juno bring their high-pitched quarrel to the king of Olympus, whose own hands, it turns out, are tied by the Parcae. As the Fates roll around in their El Camino, cutting short the threads of numerous heroes Sarpedon-like, men are dying on the field of battle like a scene straight out of the Iliad. But it's not just questions of fate, of popsicle sticks, glue, and Fort Ticonderoga that occupy our sally into divine destiny. Along the way there is also room for Vergil's frowzy digression on Ascanius' lustral locks. What is he, a trichologist? Perhaps our poet was himself glabrous, and that explains his odd obsession with the young Iulus' quiffs and frisettes? We comb through the evidence, attempting to answer this, and more.
The guys take a brief break from Vergil this week to talk about some of Dave's recent translation work. The theme is Scottish divine Samuel Rutherford (1600-1661) and his Scholastic magnum opus Examen Arminianismi ('A Careful Review of Arminianism'). This is for a forthcoming publication by Reformation Heritage Books. After spending a little time on Rutherford's bio and background - including pedagogy of the 17th century - we get into some of the nuances and challenges of Scholastic Latin. Its plain, unadorned style, jawbreaking adverbs and abstruse, Thomistic constructions (indeclinabiliter, reduplicative, in facto esse, in fieri), and repetition for the sake of clarity, all come under the microscope. So if you're interested in the translator's task, in 17th century theological Latin, in some of the politics and controversy of the life of a famous Puritan, then be sure to tune in for this one!
Tune in this week as the guys wrap up Aeneid 9 and take a look at the fallout and aftermath of Nisus' and Euryalus' disastrous midnight raid. When the Rutulians wake to the bloody devastation, its off to besiege the city in which the Trojans, sans Aeneas, are hiding. In this "reverse Iliad", we find the foreign aggressors -- Aeneas and company -- besieged within a city by the invaded inhabitants on the plain. Along the way, we're met with an interesting digression in which Vergil honors motherhood with a threnody from Euryalus' otherwise anonymous mother. He also gives us another invocation of the muse, this time of Calliope, inspiratrix of epic poetry. As full-scale war breaks out, we see Turnus unleashed, and another little hero step forward: Ascanius, Aeneas' son. In his martial aristeia, he dispatches the Rutulian braggart Numanus, after a real, real long monologue. There may be some limericks and lighthearted moments along the way, but don't look for any spoilers here!
"Who drives us to outrageous action? Is it some god, or does each man make of his own desire a god, which then drives him furiously to a violent end"? This is the question we consider this week as we turn to the final quarter of the epic (books 9-12). And we are treated to two surprising events: first, how the ships of the Trojans are transformed into mermaids, shocking Turnus and his gathered Rutulians. Juno is up to her old tricks, and sends along Iris the messenger to tell him not to worry, the Trojans will be trapped in Italy where they can be easy prey for the indigenous hero and his assorted forces. Aeneas is off-scene, still wandering through the regions of Arcadia, securing alliances with Evander and company. The second episode is the midnight raid of Nisus and Euryalus. In a nod to – or perhaps improvement upon – Homer's Iliad 10 and the gruesome death of Dolon at the hands of Odysseus and Diomedes, Vergil here tells his own tragic story of two friends overtaken by greed and a desire for bloodlust. It's not all grim, however. Along the way you can spot silos of Pringles™, the grit of Fig Newtons™, a brief excursion to the admittedly grim Battle of the Little Big Horn, and some Uncrustables™. One might say that mixing the serious with the silly has become Jeff and Dave's ™. So tune in!
This week the guys wrap up Book VIII of Vergil's epic by discussing Aeneas' amazing shield. Wrought by the ignipotens fire-forger Vulcan at the lascivious behest of his sometime bride Venus, the shield is an ekphrasis of Roman history. But how does it compare to its predecessor, that of Achilles from Iliad XVIII? Is it, in Jeff's words, "too on the nose"? Or are there deeper meanings beneath the oxhide? And how does Aeneas compare to Odysseus in terms of plausible humanity? Should he tell some lies or bump some fists to seem more real? Come along for these questions and more — complete with tedious detours through Dante, supines, album covers, early Christian apologists, and Disney's Beauty and the Beast™! Did they leave out anything from this one?
This week Jeff and Dave launch into the fascinating, often misunderstood world of Rome way, way back before there were Romans. As Aeneas readies for battle in the idyllic landscape, he needs some allies. So it's off a-paddlin' to Arcadia, where the rustic Greek king Evander and his momentous son Pallas make ready allies. While enjoying some old-fashioned hospitality, Evander tells our hero the long, digressive backstory of Greece's mightiest avenger: Hercules. On the way back from rustlin' Spanish cattle, Hercules got rustled himself by the smoke-belching Cacus. This troglodytic monster must be killed. But what does this mean for the epic as a whole and for Vergil's view of the Pax Augusta? Well to find out, warm up your jerri-can of coffee, chill your bucket of Diet Coke, and tuck in for a classical repast past its prime not at all.
In this Christmas-themed episode Jeff and Dave take a break from the Aeneid to look at Luke's Gospel, chapter 2:1-5, and the puzzling census of Quirinius. Drawing from half a dozen scholarly articles on the subject, we try to puzzle out the four major objections to Luke's reliability as a historian on the topic of the census:
“1. Apart from the gospel, history knows nothing of a general Imperial census in the time of Augustus.2. There could have been no Roman census in Palestine during the time of Herod the Great, a rex socius.3. Such a census at such a time could not have been carried out by Quirinius, for he was not governor in Syria then, nor till 10 years later, when he did make a census which gave rise to a revolt under Judas of Galilee. 4. Under a Roman census it would not have been necessary for Joseph to go to Bethlehem, or for Mary to accompany him.” - Alexander Balmain Bruce, D.D. (from Epxositor's Greek New Testament, W. Robertson Nicoll, 1897; p. 470)Can each of these objections be met? Was Publius Sulpicius Quirinius gov. of Syria twice, before the death of Herod the Great and again in 6-7 A.D. for the census mentioned in Acts 5? What about inscriptional evidence? Is Luke reliable as a historian?
You won't want to miss this thorough look at the subject, complete with some excellent intro. and outro. music generously provided by guitar wizard extraordinaire Jeff Scheetz.
The guys wrap up their look at Book 7 this week but not before transgressing a few more liminal spaces. When Latinus throws up his hands at the storm gathering around him and his neighbors, it is up to Juno herself to descend and open the Gates of War. While this is the moment in the epic where the Iliadic violence of the second half is officially unleashed, these Gates also point to a Roman reality—the Temple of Janus and the Gates of War in the Roman Forum. A (worthy, we think) digression takes us into the history of these gates and this strange, two-faced deity. We end with a breakdown of Turnus’ puzzling fashion choices on the battlefield, and a glimpse at the extraordinary swift-footed, wheat-sprinting, water-skipping warrioress, Camilla. Keep an eye on this gal.
This week the guys move (nearer) to the end of Book VII and examine the role of that frightful, hair raising, blood-curdilng sister of Tisiphone and Megaera known as Allecto. Juno -- who knows she's lost but doesn't like being a one-trick villainess -- unleashes hell's wrath on Aeneas' nascent nuptial notions. Allecto's conjured up and down she goes into Amata to spread havoc across the Italian landscape. Along the way we investigate such questions as: is Ascanius' aristeia just riding his pony in the Trojan Games? Can such an innocuous, apparently inconsequential accident like killing a pet albino stag really lead, Gavrilo Princip style, to world war? Where exactly is Ampsanctus? And why doesn't Jeff know who Glenn Hughes is? So pull on your deep purple jumper, your sweats by Vanquished or Loser, and digress for success!
For a special Thanksgiving episode, this week the guys take a look at the "earliest surviving work of poetry about New England and the second oldest poem whose origins can be traced directly to the British American colonies." William Morrell (d. 1625), sometime Oxford Classics student, Anglican priest, and member of the failed Wessagusset Colony in Weymouth, MA, wrote a fascinating poem about Nova Anglia, its flora, fauna, and Native American inhabitants. Drawing on the work of Andrew Gaudio, Jeff and Dave share a lively discussion of the poetry's beauty, Morrell's fairmindedness, proselytizing spirit, and a few questions about colonialism. Lynxes, beavers, bears, and bobcats, this episode is stuffed like a turkey with unusual and recherche conversation. Plus, two more limericks during the ad read, and a special Thanksgiving Easter Egg at the end. Don't miss it!
Book VII! Aeneas and co. find themselves in the second half of the game and the stakes just keep getting higher and higher. Will they have the guts to get the glory? At first it seems like a cake walk—smooth sailing up the Tiber, a hearty welcome by the local king, even a swarm of bees seems to be down with it all on the local oracular BuzzFeed. But is this all just the calm before the big storm? I mean, Latinus is Faun-ing all over Aeneas, but he also makes a rookie mistake—didn’t clear it with the wife. Uh oh, someone’s headed for the doghouse. So, pull up a chair to your (edible?) table and tuck in to the next part of the main course.
Time to leave behind the valley of souls, make our way out of Dis place and head back to the land of the living. As the guys wrap up this portion of the epic poem, it's hard to avoid a little bit of interpretive questioning: Why did Vergil couple Rome's glorious future with the tear-jerking, pathos-filled death of Marcellus? How did the man of Mantua really feel about Augustus? Is that lavish, spondaic poety sincere or is there some kowtowing to the guy who cuts his check? And perhaps most of all, why does Aeneas exit the Mall of Persephone through that gate of false dreams? Was it only to prevent the emergency-exit alarm from going off as he heads toward his Iliadic destiny? To get some answers, cast your anchor from the prow, face your sterns toward the shore, grab a bag of huggable portions, and tune in!
In this episode we find Aeneas getting closer to a reunion with Dad and maybe even an exit from this Hotel California. But, as we’ve seen throughout this epic, there’s no gain without a healthy dollop of pain. First, there’s a horribly awkward rendezvous with a departed Dido who goes all Ajax on Aeneas and ghosts him (literally!) Then we get a glimpse of Tartarus and hear the wretched cries of the damned under the whip of Tisiphone. Finally, the Blissful Groves and a veritable Who’s Who of who slew, made it through just to drink Lethe’s brew (whew!) All this plus a wrestling Jacob, Tolkien, and a jittery Dave steeling himself for another parade. Don't miss it.
Episode 100! Will the guys celebrate the century mark by digging even deeper into the Classics, finding hidden layers of erudite exegesis, philology, philosophy, and theology in yet another literary jewel from antiquity? Nope. Time to phone one in. C’mon, it can’t be Homer, Vergil, Ovid or the predicative dative all the time, right? So, join Dave and Jeff as they look through their fingers at some of the “best” of the last couple of years. Listen as the clips veer from the embarrassing, to the embarrasinger, to the embarrassingest! You’ll cringe! You’ll cringe again! (But, really, thanks for sticking with us this long). Are we going to bring it for the next 100? You Cheddar believe it.
This week’s fun-size offering tackles the mysterious, quasi-historical object known as the Palladium. Readers of myth might remember this as the talisman held in the Trojan citadel which protected the city until it was stolen away by Odysseus and Diomedes. But the story doesn’t end there. Rumor says it went to Athens or Sparta, and then maybe Rome. Is the Palladium something that makes the jump from mythic symbol to historical artifact? Was it something like the ξόανον the Athenians kept in the Erechtheion? Did Elagabalus move the Palladium into his Rumpus Room? Did Constantine bury it under his column? Could it still be there?
Tune in for Part 2 of our Gvrgle on memorizing Latin. In this brief episode we look at selections from King David , Appendini, Verinus, Gatti, Wegeler, the Apostle John, and more. Add some famous Latin quips and bon mots to your memory storehouse and repertoire. If you want to join the project, become a LatinPerDiem patron (patreon.com/latinperdiem) for $1.99/mo or sign up for Dr. Noe's LLPSI class (latinperdiem.com/llpsi). This will get you the master document of the 20 sayings with translations, plus two high quality audio files (Latin only, and Latin with English translation).
The one who wants to give to others should not say: ‘Do you want it?’
But he should simply state: Take this, sweet friend! - Wegeler
Have at it!
There's no going back now—in this episode we follow along as Aeneas enters the Underworld proper. And if you were expecting a DMV-esque experience like Odysseus had in his jaunt, you’d be sadly mistaken. Turns out the Roman afterlife is more like the 7-story Macy’s on West 34th Street. Oh, you’re looking for the place where the souls of deceased children reside? Up the escalator past housewares and knick-knacks. The shades of warriors who were just “ok”? Hang a left at kitchen accessories and general appliances. Do we also see an Underworld that is literally becoming more “demonized” in Vergil’s hands? Why is the Roman Charon all skeletal and glowing-eyed, while his Greek counterpart is more like Joe Six-Pack? Well, whatever questions you have, get in that leaky boat, drop your obol in the bucket, and hang on for the ride (and don’t forget a Milkbone or two for Cerberus).
Wait a minute…this sounds like rock and/or roll! Indeed, after some digging through attic boxes stuffed with 45s, 8-tracks, and cassettes, the guys sit down to puzzle over a number of classical allusions in pop songs from the ‘60s to the present day. The references are all over the place—from prog rock to new wave to folk to jazz-fusion to regrettable dabblings by Bob Dylan in cheese-ball ‘80s production. What purposes do these allusions serve? Is it just to make the singer look smart (looking at you, Sting)? To comment wryly on an ankle injury (sorry to hear about that, Mr. Plant)? To apply core themes of Plato’s Euthyphro to social commentary (Jay-Z and Kanye, really?)? So clean that wax out of your ears, strap yourself to that mast, and tune in as Jeff attempts to defend his title as “Johnny Pop” and Dave wrestles with jazz aversions and the over-cutesiness of folk.
Do you smell that? Could it be the warm smell of colitas rising up through the air? Or did Dave over-microwave his gas station burrito again? Well, whatever the odor is, this path paved with good intentions (and a little cement) is leading Aeneas and company to you know where. Our Trojan exiles have finally reached the stillettoed boot of Italy. But before they can plant a flag and put up their feet, Aeneas has to take a detour down into the Underworld for one last chat with dad. But how to get there? As the Cumaean Sybil says, the gettin’ in is the easy part, it’s the leaving that’ll give you fits. So, keep your eye out for lost comrades, watch those birds, and “bough down”, ut dicunt. Such a lovely place, such a lovely face.
This week the guys close out their look at Book V with continued questions about the relevance of this break in the epic's main action. Are we really supposed to find deep meaning in flaming arrows? Is there coded symbolism when Dares starts flexing and popping his pecs like Schwarzeneggar auditioning for Conan: This Time He's Even More Greased Up? And what's with that "Trojan Game"? Maybe there's a reason it never translated to the board or video variety. Is its sole function to bring out Dave's grim loathing of parades? But hold tight--there's also some genuine, keel-smoldering pathos here. Juno's intent on barbecuing the Trojan fleet and there's poignant loss at the end. So don't throw in the towel, go the full ten rounds.
Remember when you were a kid and eagerly waiting for that next episode of Family Ties, so you could pick up the continuing action of the Keaton family from the week before? But then they hit you with some weak-sauce clip show where nothing happens except Michael J. Fox getting some time off to film Teen Wolf VI? Well, many have suspected that Vergil is up to something similar in Book 5. We seem to go from the high drama and pathos of Book 4 to competitive paddling and “everybody gets a trophy” day. What happened to the “epic”? But maybe this isn’t just time-killing filler. Maybe Vergil is letting us catch our breath and setting up the next dark turn in these exiles’ fate. Hang on to that rudder, keep an eye on those rocks, and be prepared to nudge your pilot into the brine if need be.
This week Jeff and Dave take a sustained look at an-oft discussed but ill-defined notion: what, if anything, gives people dignity? Drawing on the work of famous, late scholar Charles Trinkaus (The Scope of Renaissance Humanism), the guys trace this notion from Cicero through the Greek and Latin fathers and into the trecento. Thanks to the diligent spadery of Chuck T., you'll enjoy a who's who of what's what when it comes to key themes and ideas surrounding what separates man (and woman) from animal, the noble brute. In the end it all comes down to Petrarch, Ficino, Mirandola, and Peter 'Et' Cetera of Chicago fame. The jinx here may be lower than normal, but the substance is swole. Don't miss it!
This week we at last reach the grim, tragic climax of Book IV of the Aeneid, where the height of Dido’s madness is matched only by the depth of Aeneas’ strange indifference. When Jeff innocently pauses to comment on the “cinematic” nature of Vergil’s language and pacing, Dave pushes back, and the guys tussle over whether literary narratives are always superior to visual ones. Would Vergil be a Scorsese today? Or would that make him a lesser artist by default, if he set down his pen? Are there genres that are better served on he screen? At any rate, things are getting bleak in Carthage—Dido’s flirting with black magic, raving about the citadel, preparing for a grisly end - and what does Aeneas decide to do? Catch a nap on the poop deck. What is going on with this guy?
We’re getting to the “dessert” portion of this banquet of a book; sounds great, right? Well, dismiss those visions of truffles and gelato from your mind because these “afters” are more akin to lettuce-plated Jell-O replete with creepy, suspended fruits. Why? Because in this episode we get the big breakup scene and it is a doozy. Dido gets wind that Aeneas is trying to shuffle out the back door without so much as a text and corners him. Does Aeneas get the tongue-lashing he deserves or is her response so unhinged as to be completely irrational? Is Fate’s prodding of Aeneas toward Italy the ultimate get-out-of-the-relationship card or is he just this year’s C. Caddy McCadderson? See if you agree with William Anderson’s hot take that Aeneas is actually “heroic” in his response. There’s a pyre on fire and baby it’s getting dire. More Jell-O, anyone?
It’s getting steamy in Carthage, as Aeneas and Dido find themselves alone in a cave, separated from the hunt, chased there by an Olympus-sent thunderstorm. But what exactly happens therein? Two lovers simply giving into their desires or is it, as Dido (and Juno) believes, an actual marriage? Is the worst part that Dido has forsaken her vows to her dead husband or that this wedding is shamwow by Roman standards? Where’s the overpriced DJ? Where’s Achates’ overlong and embarrassing “best man” toast? Where’s the can-shackled chariot with the off-kilter “Nuper Nupta!” sign? The guys (with a little help from Brooks Otis and William Anderson) spelunk their way to the answers. And don’t miss the special Princess Bride intro—fans of the movie might see where this is going, but don’t expect a fist bump from Dave. Mawage?
Jeff and Dave are back at it after a tiny hiatus and a southern-fried roadtrip. In this episode we seek to figure out, with the help of Brooks Otis, why Aeneas is such a passive character in Book IV. Why doesn't he show a little more chutzpah, temerity, and boldness as he traipses around Carthage? And why is Dido so darkly verklempt? Juno and Venus do some role-shifting as the darts of Cupid's passion work their way imperceptibly through Dido's cervine heart. A cave, an eloquent sister serving as matchmaker, the 70's hit Loveboat, and Dave's usual pedantry: this episode nearly has it all. And stay tuned for Jeff's signature exercise program so you can learn how to walk like a Classicist!
This week Dave and Jeff take a break from Vergil (well, kinda) and fast forward a few centuries to Augustine of Hippo. Now, here’s a guy that a lot of our audience should be able to relate to—openly hated learning grammar as a kid, beat his head against the wall trying to master Greek, pushed back against things his teachers forced him to do. But as an older man looking back through his life in his Confessions Augie feels guilt for loving the Aeneid so much and not appreciating, say, the foundational aspects of the dative of reference, as well as not weeping for his own flagrant dalliances. But were those tears for Dido really wasted? Can good art channel our emotions in a healthy direction or does it always take us off the path toward God? And why can’t Jeff just keep it together at the end of Pixar’s Cars? Tune in to find out.
Here's your chance, dear listener, to add some famous Latin quips and sayings to your memory storehouse and repertoire. In this Gvrgle we teach you how to assimilate and regvrgitate some bon mots from Cicero, Solomon, Urbano Appendini, King David, Vergil, Terence, and more. If you want to join the project, become a LatinPerDiem patron (patreon.com/latinperdiem) for $1.99/mo or sign up for Dr. Noe's LLPSI class (latinperdiem.com/llpsi). This will get you the master document of the 20 sayings with translations, plus two high quality audio files (Latin only, and Latin with English translation). Quid expectatis?
In this episode the guys make their way through the rest of Book 3 where we find more regressive pulls back to the old Troy as well as Homeric tags and Odyssean cameos. At the first stop Aeneas is stunned to find a remarried Andromache still alive in Epirus, but also still obsessed with the past and her dear departed Hector. And even more things are off—she seems to be living in a low-rent, Euro Disney, knock-off “Tiny Troy” with a mini Simois, scant Scaean gates, and paltry Pergamum. It’s like we’ve entered Vergil’s version of the Upside-Down or some other referent to a show Dave hasn’t seen. Aeneas hightails it out of this creepy place and heads for (at last!) Italy, the land of murses and selfie-sticks. Now there's some solid Homeric “fan service”—crowd pleasing walk-ons by Scylla, Polyphemus, Achaemenides, and Bill Murray. Oh, and Aeneas’ dad dies. Blink and you'll miss it.
At the urging of mom (Venus) Aeneas finally decides to bolt from Troy, but not before encountering a cowering Helen lurking in the shadows. His instinct is for bloody vengeance, but once again Fate has other ideas and dust brooms our hero out the gates. Aeneas is able to save his dad and son (and meet other haggard Trojans by the ol’ cypress tree) but discovers his wife as a ghost. Creusa tells him her heart will go on and then gives him the “Hesperia” prophecy (for about the zillionth time). Then its on to Book 3! Aeneas now has a vague kind of destiny but where will it lead? Hey, Thrace! Let’s offramp here! NO. Delos? UH-UH. Oh Crete, then, right? TRY AGAIN. And is this Book killer or filler (like that 4th track on every Bon Jovi album)? As the Trojans slowly shed their past, brace yourself for the creepiest gardening you’ve ever encountered, stanky bird-women, and the culinary oddity of “eating one’s tables”. What is that, some kind of ancient bread bowl? Dardanian Flatizza?
As Dave and Jeff plow deeper into Book 2 it is clearly getting worse for the Trojans. They didn’t Sinon for this! Those wily Greeks have set the trap and now it begins to spring. First, coiled, creepy snakes come writhing out of the sea to put Laocoon and his two unlucky sons into a suplex and drag them to watery graves. The Trojans read this omen in exactly the wrong way, and think that this is the perfect time to slap some roller skates on that huge wooden equine and surf it into the city. And, well, we all know what happens next. Greeks storm the citadel, horrors multiply. Pyrrhus murders old Priam at Minerva’s altar. Aeneas is frozen in indecision—what should he do? Go down swinging? Run for it? Take Dave to task for his irrational opposition to R.E.M. and Michael Stipe?
After a few parting remarks and summations to Book 1, Jeff and Dave wander through the dense undergrowth near the shores of Carthage and make their way to the palace of Dido and Book 2. Here we meet the big set piece, the longest account of the fall of Troy in Greco-Roman literature. How does Jupiter's promise of endless empire for the wolf-pelted Romans get started? How does it feel for Dido to wear that souvenir T-shirt, “I’m with Cupid”? How do we feel about ethnic profiling? Are all Greeks really as evil as the actor left on the shore, or is he just a Sinon the times? What kind of a sound should a spear make when it hits a horse? And finally, should Laocoön get some comeuppance for being the only one who sees the truth? These and more questions will be answered, and you will be treated to a lovely clip from that war on bureaucracy, the ’80s British comedy series Yes, Minister. And don’t miss the extended discussion of scrimshaw and relish.
Don't you just hate it when all you want is to have a nice visit with your mom, share some tea and a huggable portion or two, but then she decides to trick you by showing up as the goddess Artemis or some lace-booted Thracian huntress? Personally, I know that I've had it with that and in this episode Aeneas has too. We pick up the story where Aeneas and a few comrades are washed up on strange Libyan shores convinced they've lost most of their fleet and friends. But wait! Venus appears in disguise and nudges her son and his disheveled band toward the rising city of Carthage just over that hill there. We get some intriguing backstory on Dido (Carthage's plucky queen), too, including what seems to be evidence for Aeneas' and Dido's perfect Tinder match--tragic loss of spouse? Check. Destined to found a new empire in the West? Check. Years of storm-tossed sea wanderings? Check. Let's get these kids together! But before that can happen a few matters need to be resolved: can dull, duty-bound Aeneas make an attractive impression on the queen? Can he get over his obvious "wall envy"? Will Dave ever find his way out of fog-bound Edinburgh? Bodotria!
Well we have finally arrived at the full-scale treatment of the Aeneid. In this episode we take a close look at the first half of Book 1, the causes of the storm with King Aeolus, Roman pietas, and all that goes into Vergil's brilliant, epic tour de force. What made the gods so angry? Why did Paris choose Venus instead of Juno? What kind of a bribe will lull Aeolus out of his breezy cavern to stir up the placid sea? And what kind of a hero is Aeneas? Is he pale, wan, and uninspiring, or is there some divine purpose lurking beneath? Be sure to tune in for our brand-new, hot-popping sponsor, and make sure your floors are epoxied.
In this burst of classical interest, Dave and Jeff discuss the graffito discovered on the Palatine Hill in 1857. Does it depict Christ Jesus crucified, mocked in the shape of a donkey? What is onolatry? Who was Alexamenos and why is he being ridiculed? What about the early evidence from apologists Tertullian and Minucius Felix? What can they tell us about how the Romans viewed their Christian and Jewish neighbors? Tune in as we discuss these questions and more, and don't forget to check the link for the image: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexamenos_graffito
In this surprise premier, Jeff and Dave plow new ground with a 15 minute huggable portion, a bite-sized podcast for those on the go. Here's your chance to wolf down some Classics in a short, digestible format. In this episode we take apart the first seven lines of the Vergilian classic. So tuck in your napkin, pull up a chair, take out your fork - nah, forget it. Just shove your whole mouth in the dip and enjoy!
Many civilizations around the world have traditions in which the gods get upset with mankind and water the world back to square one. The Greeks and Romans were no exceptions. This week the guys wade into Ovid’s take on all this with a look at the Greco-Roman “Noah figures” Deucalion and Pyrrha. After humanity Teen Wolfs its way into Zeus’ disfavor, the couple find themselves on a skiff headed for a sea-swamped Parnassus. And even when they hit dry land they have to solve a riddle to repopulate the earth. Why? Well, Themis the breaks, I’m afraid. So how do Deucalion’s and Pyrrha’s titanic parentage foreshadow the action? What does this story have to say about Roman views of human nature? Why so much rock chucking? And also stay tuned for Ad Navseam’s new coming attraction: “Gvrgle”!
It’s back to Ovid this week and you’d best hold on to your hypotenuse. Join us for a deep dive into Book 15 of the Metamorphoses where, after a quick “Hello, Numa”, it’s on to a lengthy lecture by Pythagoras (of triangle fame) regarding the dos and (mainly) don’ts of what humans should glut their gobs with. In a word—put down that cheeseburger, because it just might be your uncle Jimmy! What was Numa, the 2nd king of Rome, supposed to learn from this? Is there wisdom here or was Pythagoras just some kind of metempsycho? Would a modern vegan or vegetarian agree with his take? In the meantime, tune in, go easy on the beans and if you encounter a bar on your way to this episode, consider walking around it. Also, Guacaroni and Cheese.
This week the guys are back with more mottos, from the muddled to the magnificent, from bland to grand. But this time they have their sights set on the apophthegms of colleges and universities around the globe. And it is a roller coaster—which ones make the cut? Which make no sense at all? Which ones could use some spicing up? And what’s with those prone ursines lazing about in the American southwest? So come join in the fun, whether or not you agree that Sparty needs a serious makeover or you are a proud alum of UdoU. Quaecumque, ὤνθρωπε.
Well, the Ides of March may have already come and gone, but the guys are determined to jump headlong into one of the most famous dates and deaths in world history. C’mon, you might say, we all had to suffer through that Shakespeare play in 10th grade, right? Haven’t we all heard this one before? Well, let us ask you—have you heard it involving a close comparison of the existing ancient accounts, on-the-fly translation improvements, the lurid umbra of res flagitiosa, that kid from Spider-man, and Jeff carping about an unsolicited “Senior Discount”? Methinks (as old Willy S. might say) not. So don’t be a Brute--take a stab at this one, hear all the gory details, and even Google Map your way through Rome to the feline sanctuary where the deed went down.
Dave and Jeff were searching in vain for Aristotle's lost treatise on comedy when they stumbled across veteran stand-up comedian Robert Mac (from robertmac.com); and, frankly, who needs Aristotle when you have this guy? Come along as we listen to several clips from Robert's killer set interspersed with a lively discussion regarding how he builds his bits, what makes a joke work, what just might get him cancelled these days! Did the Greeks anticipate a lot of this stuff? Is there a kind of universal formula for humor? Stay sharp, listener, or you just might find yourself baffled by the barrage of antanaklasis and paraprosdokian. Plato's Republic would probably have banished Mr. Mac but we'd like to think that Plato himself -- ye old stick in the mud -- would at least have cracked a wry smile at this episode.
This week we're going toe-to-toe with the "Prince of the Humanists" himself, Desiderius Erasmus of Rotterdam. With the guidance of scholar and novelist (and all-around Erasmus junkie) Erika Rummel, we wander along with the great man on his itinerant life and eavesdrop on his irascible contrariness. Gape in wonder as Erasmus applies his philological fury to a 1,000-year overdue update of Jerome! Gasp as Erasmus and Luther trade rap-battle, Marvel super-villain insults! Scratch your head as Dave offers opinions on levitating swimming pools! That may just be some folly worth praising.
This week the guys welcome back to the studio esteemed friend and mentor Dr. Ken Bratt. You may remember him from such episodes as "From there We Travelled to Philippi" (AN46). An expert in material culture, Ken leads us on an historical and archaeological tour of the catacombs around Rome. We stop off at San Callisto, San Sebastian, and touch on a few of the lesser-known spots as we learn of pagan, Jewish, and Christian burial. Did Christians really worship in these catacombs with Judah Ben Hur, or is that simply more Hollywood folderol? What about the adaptation of pagan art forms for Christian burials, mastedons and mammoths, and the veracity of relics? Along the way we learn how St. Sebastian, though perforated like a pincushion, headed back to rebuke Diocletian (Die Hardest?). And your intestinal fortitude will be tested once again by one's of Dave's most egregious puns.
There seems to be a universal archetype wherein a famous person dies or utters last words befitting the life she lived. The Greeks and Romans were no different, but why are so many of these stories so odd? Aeschylus: terminated by a tortoise; Euripides: devastated by dogs. And Sophocles? graped in the glottis. Is there any truth to these tales or is this just another episode of When Hubris Met Nemesis? As always, pick up lots of practical advice along the way, such as--choose walnut to avoid getting venus flytrapped by an oak. And if a friend while on his deathbed asks you to burn his literary masterpiece, the answer is always "NO."
It’s the summer of 415 BC and the Athenians (in the middle of a devastating war with Sparta) are debating whether to launch a naval expedition against colonies in Sicily. General Nicias says “no”, but here comes wonder boy Alcibiades who makes the assembly swoon, what with his silver tongue, chariot laurels, wavy hair, and chiseled abs, and it’s off to Sicily we go. But wait! On the night before departure somebody mutilates a bunch of herms in the city and maybe even performs a drunken satire of sacred mysteries! Questions invite questions: was it Alcibiades? If so, does he deserve the death penalty? Why would you want one of those scurrilous statues on your street corner? And don’t miss the following defections, deflections, and rejections. Pull up a chair, check your emergency umlaut supply, and crack open a case of Löwenbräu. You can’t make this stuff up.
The guys wrap up their three-part dive into De Natura Deorum, and this time it is Cotta the Academic’s turn up at the plate. Where will Cotta (our stand-in for Cicero himself here) land on all this? Does he just want some friendly clarification of earlier arguments or is he out to fully dismantle both Velleius and Balbus (see previous two episodes)? Or is this dialogue's most important feature what it reveals about the differences between Greek and Roman philosophy? Even a skeptic like Cotta has a place in his heart for reading birds' signs and sheep livers, and Numa's capeduncula. But why? Be sure to stick around for some ramen noodles and a twist ending that would have even The Usual Suspects and The Sixth Sense doing a slow, golf clap.
This week Balbus the Stoic is on the hot seat as he attempts to convince this feisty gathering of intellects that not only do the gods exist, but they actually care deeply for humanity's well-being. After shoring up Cicero's debt to Plato and Aristotle, Jeff and Dave get down to the nittus grittus (quaedam rudera) -- Balbus' gods aren't the disinterested, off-playing-shuffleboard-somewhere-bureaucrats Velleius the Epicurean prefers. Before you know it, he's dropping syllogisms and hegemonika to some sick beats. But is he convincing? Do the gods really exist just because a lot of people have talked about them? It quickly gets heated before the whole episode threatens to devolve into a cutthroat round of Rack-O. Also, please subscribe our youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/AdNavseam
In this first of a three-parter, Dave and Jeff set up a deep dive into a fascinating late work of Cicero in which representatives of the three major Hellenistic schools of thought (Epicurean, Stoic, and Academic) debate the nature and existence of the gods. Is their existence sure, doubtful, or impossible? And what is Cicero up to? Is he the Milli Vanilli of ancient philosophy, just lip-synching to Plato’s and Zeno’s greatest hits? Or is there some essential, original material here? What do we mean by “originality” in an ancient context? Sidle up to the buffet, and serve up a heapin' helpin' of ennui as Dave blows the thick dust off his dissertation…Cicero’s very reputation as a philosopher is at stake.
The fact that many of the marbles from the Parthenon reside in the British Museum (London) has been controversial since they first landed there in the early 19th century. In this complex tale Lord Elgin has often played the villain—he being the one who greedily had the sculptures removed from Athens to decorate his drafty Scottish mansion. But is the story that simple? In this episode Dave and Jeff tell the whole story front to back with an eye to several questions: does Elgin perhaps deserve a bit more sympathy than he usually gets? What are the arguments for keeping the artifacts in London, and for repatriation? Why should Lord Byron—noted defacer of Greek monuments—get a pass? My goodness, what on earth happened to Lord Elgin’s nose? And, will the guys ever stop attempting Scottish accents?
Ever since the 1960 publication of Winnie Ille Pu (Winnie the Pooh...or is that Winnie that Well-Known Pooh Over There?) there has been a steady stream over the years of popular, contemporary texts translated into Latin. But why? Are these just gimmicky forays on shelves, unread and unthumbed heores, or can they be effective tools in actually learning Latin? Jeff and Dave tackle this question and many more as they walk the listener through Latinized versions of Seuss, Carroll, Sendak and Rowling. Highlights: Does Hobbitus, Ille really deserve the scorn sent its way? For all the skill of the Harry Potter translator did he really identify the titular character as "The Boy Who Died"? Don't miss the post-Christmas blues, and some bees.
By now listeners have gotten used to (and maybe even enjoyed?) the loose, devil-may-care, locker room atmosphere that tends to dominate in the Vomitorium. But what about a ladies' perspective on all this folderol? And not just any old feminine perspective, but that of the extraordinary women who made the decision to marry these chuckleheads? That’s right—this week the guys are joined by Tara and Bec (married, respectively, to Dave and Jeff) where they get a chance to unload on what it’s like to live with the antiquity-obsesssed. Is there more to traveling than “climbing tall things and seeing dead guys”? Can one offer fashion advice without irreparrably bruising egos? And will the hosts need serious therapy after this one? Tune in!
Desperate to find the perfect gift to slip into your favorite scholar’s (budding and otherwise) stocking this year? Of course you are, because if he or she finds another bath bomb or scented whazzit in there someone’s going to get hurt. Fear not! Dave and Jeff are here to help with their curated best-of lists. And the gamut is run—yes, there are plenty of heady tomes to set your beloveds on the proper path, but also many surprises along the way, including shred metal guitar, stunningly bad movies, and shocking sources of dietary fiber! Who knows, if you do it right maybe you'll end up like Sting and celebrate Yuletide by finding many words to rhyme with “Charybdis”.
It’s “Bring Your Daughter to Work Week” in the vomitorium and today Dave’s daughter Jillian stops by to talk about what it was like being homeschooled, speaking Latin and Ancient Greek from a young age, and what has kept her interest in the Classics to the present day. Jillian weaves and dodges her way through a barrage of dad jokes as she takes us through Percy Jackson and the Lightning Thief, and reasons why it sparked her interest in mythology. Before she bolts for her 2nd semester of Classical studies, the guys try to offer some advice on how to deal with the question every humanities major loathes, “So whatcha gonna do with that?”
This week the guys hopscotch from Babylon, to Memphis (not TN), to Alexandria (not VA), and even to Venice (not FL) in search of an answer to one of the most captivating and lingering archaeological questions of all time—what happened to the tomb and body of Alexander Ille Magnus? How could this centuries-long tourist attraction (visited by some of the greatest Caesars who ever caesared) and massive, Wal-Mart sized complex simply vanish? As they say, it’s complicated. We’ve got cross-desert catafalquing, followed by temporary tomb subletting, and toxic mosque-ulinity, capped off by some embarrassing nose-mangling, and maybe even a mummy heading for its final stop in a gondola. Paging Heinrich Schliemann!
Transliminate your favorite room, grab a cronut and get ready for some top-shelf edutainment! Dave and Jeff set the table, tackling terms and probing provenances with deep dives into etymologies, derivatives, cognates, and malapropism (be careful not to die in the barn!) After some stretching, the guys even break a sweat with high-intensity calquing. Next up, some favorite mondegreens as Dave flakes on Phil Collins and Jeff trips over Toto, followed by some of Dave’s best practical principles on how to incorporate active, idiomatic Latin into your study and make it stick. Get ready to sign up for the 20-yr. plan. And if you ever feel guilty for how much time you spend listening to Ad Navseam, just remember the act itself, in this hobunk spot of the internet, is persebonate.
What’s the best way to learn, retain, and teach Latin? The old school, passive “grammar and rote memorization” route or the hip, (relatively) new active, “spoken and living language” approach? You don’t need to be versed in COBOL or FORTRAN or know your way around those punch-cards that used to operate refrigerator-sized computers back in the ‘70s to answer that question (though it might help). Dave and Jeff are here to share the stories of their own journeys through various Latin curricula on both sides of the desk. Hear what led Dave to embrace the “active spoken” method—the highs and lows, the practicalities and the hilarities. And if it gets too heavy, fear not — Arugula Man is waiting in the wings.
Ever wonder why the American capitol is chock full of columns, pediments, and triglyphs, or why the Washington Monument appears supremely suited for roasting large quantities of meat? Then this is the episode for you. The guys begin their journey way back in the 18th century when Europe was undergoing a wave of “Greek Fever” and “Egyptomania”. They had it all: romantic poems, shady trinket collections, and enlightened revolutions which eventually spilled over into neo-classical architecture. And this still 'colors' the way we recall and interpret the ancient world. Thus the obelisk of WaMo and the Pantheon-y JeMe flexing its dome-court advantage. All very nice, but can it go too far? Did anybody really need a ripped, shirtless statue of George Washington throneing it up in the Capitol rotunda? Tune in to find out.
It's tufa one in the Vomitorium today! Two petrifying tales from the Metamorphoses, that is. First, Perseus gets hopelessly lost and takes it for granite that big-boned Atlas will offer him directions and a snack. But a dread prophecy leads Atlas to slam the door instead and Perseus to say "No More Mr. Gneiss Guy". He whips out his secret weapon from his Gorgon's head-sized holster with predictable results. Next it's on to Niobe whose Latona-directed trash talk knows no bounds. Even when Apollo and Diana begin to take bloody revenge, Niobe's hubris gets bigger and boulder. Her own transformation is sure with all that evidence mountain against her. Starting to get the schist of it? Shale we go on? Ore maybe not? Either way, you'll lava it!
Do you encourage your children to stay in their beds at night by telling them that, if they get up, a vampiric meany will sneak in through a window and slurp their haematids? No? Well, the ancient Greeks would like to have a talk with you about your parenting skills. Keep your favorite apotropaic talisman handy as we mull the blood-thirsty Mormo, disengawk the seductive Lamia, and evade the, um, dung-footed Empousa (!) in this spooky season special. If you make it through that gory gauntlet, then wander along with the guys into Athens' most-haunted house while keeping an eye out for spectral arrivals of dead relatives. Also, home-buying pro-tip: always have the inspector check for basement mold and shackled skeletons beneath the lawn before dropping your deposit.
Jeff and Dave wade into the Olympic-sized pool that is Ovid’s masterpiece, the Metamorphoses. After untangling etymological tendrils of the word “vignette”, the guys dive right in. First up, “Apollo and Daphne”. Not happy with Apollo’s arch trash-talk, Cupid shows him who’s really the boss—his arrows unleash unstoppable passion and malodorous disdain between the titular two. This is not the chubby bowman on your Valentine’s card. Then it’s on to “Diana and Actaeon”. What’s the message here? Another defense of chastity? Haunting comment on the goddess' sacredness? Is Ovid alluding to his own error or the recent Roman past? Maybe he's whelping on the very conventions of epic? Come on in, the water's fine, but be careful where you dogpaddle.
Today the guys tackle the life and work of public intellectual Joseph Campbell, best known for his theory of the monomyth which proposes that all hero narratives are, at root, simply variations on the same story. Once they get past the irritating, almost Forrest Gumpian nature of Campbell’s self-mythologizing biography, Dave and Jeff get down to the stages of the “journey” itself. Behold calls to adventure, tests, mentors, katabaseis, resurrections; and a Frodo, Harry, Katniss, and Skywalker hiding behind every veil. Questions beget questions: is the Christian narrative just another “hero’s journey”? Can we blame Campbell for Jar-Jar Binks? And perhaps most importantly—where’s the best place in the hero cycle to stop off for some soup?
This week Dave and Jeff sit down with intellectual powerhouse and controversialist Heather Mac Donald. Known primarily for her incisive social commentary on policing, Heather is the Thomas W. Smith Fellow at the Manhattan Institute, a contributing editor of City Journal, and a New York Times bestselling author. She writes on a wide variety of topics, including higher education, immigration, policing, homelessness and homeless advocacy, criminal-justice reform, and race relations. The guys enjoy a wide-ranging and an in-depth discussion with Heather about the different intellectual currents of the humanities that have shaped her as a thinker, and why the arts need no instrumental justification.
This week join Jeff, Dave, and Toto on a climb up the fragrant slopes of Mount Parnassus to consult what was the premier divination site in the ancient Mediterranean—the oracle of Apollo at Delphi. But you don’t just barge on in and start a-consulting left and right; there are purifications to be made, various deities to appease, hearts and brains to find, and sacrifices to offer. Only then you may ask your question of Delph the Great and Powerful. So come along, take in the view, and hope our answers to long-standing questions are more straight-forward than what poor old Croesus got. Also, ask yourself how far would you travel and how long would you stand in line to find out "who stole the sheet"?
Ever run into the phrase Quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur (“Whatever is said in Latin seems profound”)? Well, most of the states in the American union took that sentiment to heart when they came up with their personal mottoes (institutions and tattoo-getters too). After a brief detour through the pitfalls of collegiate apophthegms and bare midriff-commenting, Dave and Jeff rip and riff through all the mottos of the lower 48 (and those other two). Little mercy is shown as they decide who’s on point, who just phoned it in, and why Michigan’s is (proh dolor) the worst one of all. Even so, si quaeritis amoenas nugas, audite!
This week Jeff and Dave wrap their look at Lucretius’ De Rerum Natura, doing their best to break down the essentials all the while dodging those clinamen-controlled atoms. Because according to Luc these little cueballs explain everything. Earthquakes? Swerving atoms. Human speech? Swerving atoms. That dream you had about being late for your myth final while inexplicably juggling fuchsia avocados? Swerving atoms. Tune in to discover how the world blows its nose, and how to answer your kids' awkward questions, e.g., “Mom, where do centaurs come from?” And if you get nabbed for drinking the detritus-laced milk straight from the breakfast bowl of Cinnamon Toast Crunch? Just tell ‘em the atoms made you do it.
This week Dave and Jeff make their way through the heart of the matter with a close look at Books 2-4 of Lucretius' Epicurean masterpiece. The guys serve up dreams, gossamer atoms, Stonecutters, Steve Gutenberg, and a whole lot of Dave's irascibility. Along the way, you'll learn not only how E. got his physics from the pre-Socratic atomists Leucippus and Democritus, but also how the late Kurt Cobain may just rip apart this long-term, literary friendship. Jeff reprises his brief but brilliant John Lennon impression for all you Beatleites, and by the end, philosophy has helped restore a little of our host's equanimity. Finally, can the Epicurean view of death and the afterlife bring comfort? Tune in to find out.
Our dive into Lucretius continues this week and after a quick review of Epicureanism we get to the particulars. First up, Memmius, Lucretius’ patron to whom he dedicated his work. Why him? From the few shenanigans we know about Memmy he seems like a very un-Epicurean sort. Was Lucretius trying convert him? Then the thesis of the work—freeing oneself from superstition and the fear of death. If religion forces you to sacrifice you own daughter, what good is it? Can Venus and Mars stay in détente long enough to chill things out? Maybe as likely as Dave and Jeff agreeing on Roy Orbison’s catalogue and who actually gets to be a Travelling Wilbury. You don't want to miss this one!
This week Jeff and Dave may have bitten off more than they can chew as the subject of the day is, well, everything. In the 1st century BC Lucretius sat down and attempted to, in dactylic hexameter mind you, explain the origin of all things without resorting to divine explanations. How would this have played amongst the smart set of his day? And why should we listen to someone who may have bought the farm by overdosing on Love Potion #9? We might better understand all of it with a better grasp of the philosophy Lucretius adhered to—Epicureanism. Hold the chariot, aren’t those the guys who just swan around at cocktail parties and sample overly fancy hors d’oeuvres? We’ll untangle it. Promise. Kinda.
What better way to ring in our 50th than with the ribald, ridiculous, and righteous ruckus that is Athenian Old Comedy? After a quick trip through the quasi-mythic origins of comedy, Dave and Jeff dive into the particulars of Aristophanes’ Frogs. In this play we find ourselves in 405 BC and the great tragedian Euripides has just died. Dionysus, the god of tragedy itself, decides that because there are now no good poets left he’ll go down into Hades and bring Euripides back from the dead. And from there it just gets weirder. So settle in with a big bowl of beef-n-bean stew and see whether Dave can keep from blushing from all the scatology, orJeff can stop from gushing over his own translation. Oh, and watch out for that little bottle of oil.
This week the throw-down continues as Dave, Jeff, and Dr. Patrick M. Owens dig into a pile of Latin textbooks and see which ones are worthy of a podium finish. Need to brush up on your ecclesiastical Latin? You’d better know your Collins from your Henle. Do the names “Cambridge” and “Oxford” conjure images of Britishy erudition? Maybe not so fast. Dashed off caricatures of oddly proportioned “melon heads” not your thing? Learn which books NOT to open. So, tune in (if you can take a break from gilding your cute little Duolingo owl and trying to advance to the Amethyst League). Also, Rosetta Stone, Ossa Latinitatis, and Hans Ørberg.
This week Dave and Jeff sit down for Part I of a wide-ranging discussion with good friend and Latin guru Dr. Patrick M. Owens of Hillsdale College. We take a brief look at Patrick’s fascinating bio and how he came to love and practice spoken Latin at a very high level. Then we seek to answer such questions as “What makes a good Latin textbook?” “What is the role of the teacher in presenting a Latin curriculum?” “What are the strengths of the inductive vs. deductive methods of language instruction?”, and more. In this episode we look especially at Wheelock's and Moreland and Fleischer. Be sure to tune in for Shaq, pompadours, and a raucous exchange of pokes and jabs as Patrick and Dave finally get down to fisticuffs, and Jeff does his best Kenny Bayless.
Jeff and Dave bring the first show from Vomitorium West, where they take a close look at the sophist Gorgias (483–375 BC). When he wasn’t hitting the Olympia/Delphi orators circuit for some cool drachmai, Gorgias was in Athens claiming to be able to answer any question anyone one might put to him. Who was this guy? Did he actually believe his own press? In this work, G defends Helen of Troy so convincingly you’ll be fist-pumping. That is, until he pulls the rug out from under the whole project with the work's final word. Oh, and make sure you know your millihelens from your terahelens before you wander down to the harbor with Robertson Davies and Isaac Asimov. Then again, you probably don’t exist (G says nothing does), so don’t sweat it. Finally, check out Jeff's smoove beatbox.
This week the Vomitorium is graced with the presence of Dave and Jeff’s friend, former colleague, mentor and professor, Dr. Ken Bratt. Join us as Dr. Bratt shares his vast knowledge of the ancient Roman colony of Philippi--site of game-changing battles, crossroads of culture, and where the first European converts to Christianity (including Lydia) were made. Ken walks us through the archaeological remains, connecting them to biblical narrative and dispelling a few likely legends along the way. Is that really “Paul’s Prison” there in Philippi? Bonus feature: learn what shenanigans Jeff got up to as a sophomore on a trip to Greece with Ken in the ‘90s. Also, what can we do to get Dave to loosen up? This episode is packed!
This week Dave and Jeff sit down with New York Times Bestselling author Ross King whose works such as Brunelleschi’s Dome and Michelangelo and the Pope’s Ceiling have set the gold standard for erudite, popular history over the last twenty years. We cover Ross’ career from academia, to novel writer, to his latest book, The Bookseller of Florence (2021). Come along as we walk the streets of Renaissance and contemporary Florence where one might have a life-altering epiphany atop a red-tiled dome or discover a long lost copy of Quintilian moldering in the dusty corner of some far-flung scriptorium. Can Jeff and Dave keep it together long enough to refrain from geeking out and going all “fan boy” on Mr. King? Just barely.
Oh say can you see where this one is going? Many people have heard about the influence of the Roman Republic on the shaping of the American government but are perhaps unaware how much deeper the ancient underpinnings go. This week, with Carl Richards' The Founders and the Classics: Greece, Rome, and the American Enlightenment, as their guide, Jeff and Dave take a star-spangled look at the Greeks and Romans read, revered, and almost rejected by the founders of the United States. From the earliest days of the revolution Washington, Adams, and Jefferson (and others) saw themselves and each other through the prism of many an ancient great, both historical and fictional. What did it mean that Sam Adams was the "Palinurus" of the Revolution? Why did Washington see himself as Cato? Why does Benjamin Rush (boo!) come along and try to pour cold, stale ale over the whole classicy enterprise? And perhaps most importantly, if you don't have busts of your friends in your personal library are they really your friends?
Dear Starry-Eyed Undergrads, you know that dream of your future grad school you have where you’re strolling through a leafy quad on your way to share a bottle of port with a kind, nurturing mentor, as you scoop up tray parfaits? Well, in this episode Dave and Jeff take those notions, drop them into the Cuisinart, and hit frappe. Take a trip with us down this pothole-ridden memory lane where you’ll find cutthroat politics, failed airport pickups, doomed lectures, lucubrations and excoriations, and sartorial disarray. So grab a repurposed pillow case (wait for it) and pull up a chair for this freak show. Rated R for “Regret”? Nah, it’s just that sometimes the only way out is through.
Major programming announcement: https://www.gofundme.com/f/latinperdiem-launch
This week Dave and Jeff take a close look at a well-known passage from ch. 14 of the Lukan history of the early church. As the apostles extend their preaching ministry into the Lycaonian region of Anatolia, they are mistaken for the gods Zeus and Hermes because of a miraculous healing Paul performs. The priest of Zeus wants to gin up a sacrifice, but the apostles risk life and limb, barely averting the ceremony. This story bears some interesting resemblance to a famous account in Ovid’s Metamorphoses VIII of the old woman Baucis and her husband Philemon (and throw in the Christmas goose). Tune in for wide-ranging literary analysis of ξενία and more, possibly the worst pun Jeff has ever dropped, and a major programming announcement at the end. https://gofund.me/ad60e4a2
This week Jeff and Dave do some spelunking to try figure out what the strange mystery rites of the Persiany cult of Mithras were all about, and why they were so popular during the Roman Empire. We begin with a breakdown of what exactly a “mystery cult” is, and then move on to Mithras himself, a hero whose myths do not survive in any written form. What do we make of the strange iconography that does survive, such as the bull-slaying motif (tauroctony)? Was this some kind of death-killing, solar cult? What is that scorpion up to? And can we take Mithras seriously in that hat? So, wander down into the Mithraeum, have a snack or two, and peek into that mysterious box. Might just change your life.
Join us for a lively discussion with Dr. Michael Fontaine (Classics, Cornell University) as we talk about his new book—How to Tell a Joke: An Ancient Guide to the Art of Humor—a translation and analysis of ancient Roman treatises on humor from both Cicero and Quintilian. Along the way we tackle such questions as “How can a politician or a lawyer use humor to win a room?”, “Is one born funny or can it be taught?” and “Did Cicero seal his own fate by telling jokes that went too far?” Tune in for the laughs, guffaws, and occasional snickers, and be sure to share your own opinion on this all important query: “Is it possible for really attractive people to be funny?”
This week Jeff and Dave take a trip to the Dutch Renaissance with a look at prolific Latin poet, theological secretary, Dutch patriot, and Greek scholar Daniel Heinsius (1580-1655). After a whirlwind introduction to leading Italian, French, and Dutch luminaries, we get right into the vita and opera of this amazing scholar. Heinsius served as secretary at the Synod of Dort (1618-1619) and also wrote some incredible Dutch poetry (sampled for us by Utrecht scholar Aron Ouwerkerk). He also tried his hand at a wide array of genres: emblems, love elegies, epithalamia (poems for weddings), funeral orations, tragedies like "Herod Babykiller" (Herodes Infanticida), and a 4-book hexameter poem "How to Despise Death" (De Contemptu Mortis) modeled on Vergil's Georgics. Be sure to stay with us until the end for the couplet Danny spoke to his foot. Fresh new kicks and pants!
Today Jeff and Dave dive into the oeuvre of Roman historian Gaius Sallustius Crispus (known as “Sallust” or “Crispy” to his friends), particularly sections 6-13 of his Bellum Catilinae. Dave argues that with this work Sallust invents the “monograph”, zeroing in on a narrow subject as his “hook” rather than trying to “do it all” more broadly and blandly. In the eight chapters referenced above Sallust zips through about 1200 years of Roman history, from Aeneas to the 1st century BC, highlighting the moral apex of the Republic down to the money-grubbing, wine-chugging, disco-clubbing depravities of his own day. Will you agree with Jeff that Sallust is a bit of a hypocrite, thundering against luxuries from the terraces of his lavish Quirinal gardens, or will you side with Dave and give old Sally a break?
After the smoke clears from some much needed post-slaughter fumigation, Dave and Jeff finally lumber their way to the end of the epic. At last we get a proper reunion between husband and wife in which Penelope wins the battle of wits. The occasion? Odysseus gets artichoked up when Penelope treats their bed like an IKEA futon. Now, roll the credits, right? WRONG. There's a whole other book to go! We see the suitors take the slip-n-slide down to Hades where Agamemnon gives them the raspberry. Back on Ithaca, Odysseus goes into "metis mode" and decides to test his aged dad with yet another false identity! But why? Does Odysseus even know who he himself is anymore? And be sure to stick around for the surprise, dea ex machina ending.
Dave comes into the Vomitorium in a bit of a gloomy mood, and what’s on tap in these books does not look like it will help much. All the planning and scheming by Odysseus finally comes down to this—the suitors (and a goodly portion of the house staff) get what’s coming to them, and only a handful of the loyal survive. Is this grisly, but acceptable justice? Athena (disguised as Mentor) wants it, so it has to be ok, right? Dave seems to agree, but Jeff (softie that he is) says, “hold up a minute”. Can we dismiss the death of the hapless Leodes, and especially the execution of the maids so easily? As they say, it’s complicated. LISTENER WARNING: this episode contains a grisly description (from the text of the Odyssey) of hanging and dismemberment at approx. 53.00 on. So if younger children listen, use discretion.
What happened to Episode 35 and Dr. Michael Fontaine? Well, our hosts had some tech diffs. That planned episode didn't drop. It shattered. So instead Jeff and Dave go far off script and offer up a hastily-prepared, poorly-seasoned, half-baked, slightly rewarmed, partially-marinated impromptu side dish (or podcast upside down cake) that answers this burning question: why should I study Greek and Latin? Along the way, you learn about Cliff Clavin, Count Dooku, Eric Blair, J.K. Rowling, Dumbo's Stables, and the secret life of appendectomists. There is also the rare serious moment where we compare ἔρις and ἐριθεία from Philippians 1 with Jerome's translation contentio.
When does Penelope know who the stranger really is? This question is at the center of today’s episode as the storm continues to gather in Odysseus’ house. But first—a bum fight! With a bloody goat paunch on the line (and who wouldn’t step it up for something tasty like that?), Odysseus clocks the mouthy Irus (aka Arnaeus) with the ol’ one-two. Then Penelope overshares (or does she???) with the stranger, Eurykleia shrieks at a telling scar (or was it just the stranger’s b.o.?), and things wrap up with a weird, geesey dream that puts Odysseus on the defensive and his wife in the driver’s seat. Also, should we feel sorry for Amphinomus just because his name is really difficult to pronounce?
Ecce! Here it is, the tearjerking, heartbreaking, bird-shrieking, deeply satisfying reunion between long-lost Odysseus and his heroic son Telemachus. Jeff and Dave guide you through all the action as Tely returns to the hut of the humble swineherd Eumaeus (swineherd good, goatherd bad, cowherd so-so) to rendezvous with dad. Don’t miss Eumaeus’ backstory, plenty of bird omens, and Odysseus dodging stool legs while disguised as a beggar. You not only get Jeff’s penetrating literary analysis, but you also learn he has some bones to pick with Homer over these extended lessons in xenia (do we need so much wine, meat, and sparkly robes?) in these “troughy” books. And be sure to smirk derisively at Dave’s typical string of self-indulgent, piffling puns. Achoober? Srsly?
This week Odysseus wraps up his epic yarn for the Phaeacians by threading the needle between the “dog-trunked” Scylla and the gulping maelstrom of Charybdis, a waxy zip past the alluring Sirens, and an ill-advised stop on the island of Helios where his men’s hankering for a decent steak does the rest of them in. Then (finally!) Odysseus is ferried home to his home island of Ithaca. As much as he’d like to rush home, check the junkmail, and clean out his gutters, this is no time to start trusting people. Athena directs him to cool his heels in the hut of the swineherd Eumaeus (Dave’s favorite!) where there’s always ouzo for two-zo, pork hot off the spit, and a down-home xenia that sits at the moral center of the tale.
In this episode we welcome Dr. Ed Watts into the vomitorium. A highly respected historian of Rome from UCSD, Ed talks with Jeff and Dave about his fascinating 2018 book Mortal Republic: How Rome Fell into Tyranny. Come along for the sights, the sounds, and yes, even some of the smells of ancient Rome as Ed explains – to Dave's chagrin – his antipathy toward Cicero as a person and stylist, but deep respect for the man for his "profound" political insights. Individuals are mortal, but a republic doesn't have to be. Ed leads us through a careful explanation of the breakdown of Roman society in the final years, and the personal and economic forces that led to tyranny. Be sure to stay tuned to the end where Dr. Watts gives his sobering take on political violence on the American scene. And check out our social media to win 1 of 3 signed copies of Ed's book we're giving away, thanks to Basic Books.
Dave and Jeff katabisate back into Hades where we watch a parade of mythic women, but no marching bands or fun-size Snickers in this parade, just more murder, mourning, and malevolence. Tune in for Epicaste, Antiope, Alcmene, and many more unpronounceable ladies. Then it’s more blasts from the passed: Agamemnon shows up with a story of the worst “welcome home” present ever while planting some doubts in Odysseus’ mind. Achilles himself drifts forward giving Odysseus a taste of what awaits him. Ajax Telamon gives our hero the silent treatment and refuses to “hug it out.” And even Sisyphus, the original rock-n-roller, has a cameo, eternally doomed but still managing to drop some 19th century economic theory on all y’all.
Come along as we follow Odysseus on his ultimate journey—a trip to the LAND OF THE DEAD (cue screeching violins or maybe even Michael Jackson’s “Thriller”). WATCH as our hero cowers from the ghosts of epics past as they swarm like moths to the blood filled pit! WONDER what Elpenor is doing here when he was just eating nachos on Circe’s veranda a second ago! LISTEN to Tiresias’ weird prophecy and Dave’s master class on wheat/chaff separation! WEEP when Odysseus encounters his mother Anticleia’s shade and attempts in vain to embrace her! SEARCH the pantry for some Huggable Portions™ (new from Nabisco!) to stave off that 2nd half of the podcast hunger! Or just tune in—this is good stuff.
This week Jeff and Dave welcome author, teacher, musician, farm guru, and mini-Aristotle Susan Wise Bauer via Zoom from her home in Virginia. Jeff and Dave enjoy a lively back-and-forth with Susan on her many talents and accomplishments. Tune in as Dr. Bauer discusses her experience being homeschooled, her love of Hebrew and history, and her best-selling books that serve as guides to anyone who wants a “Classical education”. Along the way we discuss what different people mean by the term “classical”, the rigours of writing a “universal history”, as well as Susan’s latest interest—Hippocrates and history through the lens of medicine and disease. And if you’ve been unsure about when to do your “lambing”, listen to the end for the shear joy.
After giving the Cyclops everything short of his credit card information, Odysseus and the boys are in for more bumps and bruises. First it’s a visit with Aeolus, god of the winds, who bags up all the blustery blasts, but instead of telling his crew our hero decides it’s “nap time”. Then it's on to the Laestrygonians for more cannibalism and general rock-chucking. At last they wash up on the island of Aeaea (no vowel-buying necessary) where Circe decides that while men are pigs the Hermes-helped Odysseus can stick around for a bit. Have these men learned anything? How many crew remain? Is Odysseus even telling the truth or is he a kind of ancient Keyser Söze?
This week Dave and Jeff find themselves trapped with Odysseus and his men in the cave of the dreaded chatterbox Cyclops. Here they're confronted not only with the question “How do we get out of here?”, but also “Is the Cyclops really that bad of a guy?”, “How do the Greeks define civilization?”, “What’s the true hierarchy in the Vomitorium?”, and even, “Can you base a whole society on cheese?” Brace yourself for non-stop, root-crackling, sheep-strapping, lamb-cramming, epic-simileing, cheese-filching action, and, as always, best to save your hubristic braggadocio for well after your ship has cleared the harbor.
This week we welcome our first in-studio guest (and it’s a big one)—Newberry Award winning young adult author (and Calvin University English Professor) Dr. Gary D. Schmidt. Tune in for a wide-ranging discussion about the influence of the Classics on Gary's life and writing, including his love for Odysseus, his loathing of Achilles, and a sneak peek at his next novel, based on the labours of Heracles. Along the way watch out for those liminal spaces, whether they are middle school or entrances to the Underworld, and wait…is that the Piano Man himself, Billy Joel? Listen to the end to hear Dave and Jeff riff their way through some viewer mail.
In this week's episode Zeus sends Hermes to demand that the fair-tressed Calypso release weeping Odysseus (still with us?) after seven years of island imprisonment. No amount of organic oat hair milk can cheer her, the added shine, volume, and bounce notwithstanding. We look at books 5-8, with Odysseus and Nausicaa having a go at jarts, while Demodocus (Homer himself in disguise?) plucks out the hottest hits of the Mycenaean Era. Odysseus weeps (again!) and drops some layered metanarratives, but not before the white goddess offers him a magic, life-saving pair of trousers in the middle of a shipwreck. And stay-tuned for a new, stellar sponsor.
This week Dave and Jeff clamber aboard a trireme and follow Telemachus as he leaves Ithaca (for the first time?) and heads to the Peloponnese in search of news of his missing father. After leaving Nestor (and escaping his grumpy old man, “back in my day” monologues) it’s on to Sparta to visit Menelaus and Helen. Here things are so tense that Helen has to mix some sort of magic sedative into the Mountain Dew. Stick around for Menelaus and Helen’s strikingly different versions of the Trojan Horse story, and possible answers to the questions “Could the Trojan War have been avoided if they had just had better coffee?” and “Who cares what Jeff wore on his first day of high school?”
In this first of countless (?) episodes on the Odyssey, Jeff and Dave wash ashore on the opening books, Castaway style. Here we find Odysseus’ wife and son, Penelope and Telemachus, besieged in their home on Ithaca by greedy, gluttonous, mindless suitors, and with no idea when Odysseus is ever coming home. As with the Iliad, we consider the first word of the poem — ἄνδρα (andra, man) — and investigate how this might be a guidestone for understanding the epic’s deeper themes. Other key questions: will Telemachus rise to the occasion? How do the meanings of names (glint-eyed Athena) give us insight into character? And what’s Lazy Steve doing in this neck of the woods? Don’t miss the concluding yogurt.
This week Dave and Jeff gambol off near sylvan fields to tackle the earliest example of Vergil’s poetry, the Eclogues. In Eclogue 1 we meet the shepherd Meliboeus lamenting to his friend Tityrus: "How'd I get evicted?" Meanwhile, Tityrus plays his oaten pipes and suggests Rome is over-rusticating. You’ll hear the amoeboean bees a-buzzing and the cattle a-lowing (with a digression on Psalm 23) as we investigate the deeper meanings of bucolic imagery, Greek precedents, and pressed cheeses. Look! Octavian Augustus, smack dab in the center of Vergil’s poetic programme. Speaking of programs, you’ll need one to tell your willows from your chestnuts from your tamarisks from your cypresses from your low-lying myrtles.
Late August, 480 BC. The tension in the pass finally gives way to violence and for the first two days of battle the Persians learn their wicker wear can't match Spartan discipline. Xerxes gets throne-hopping mad until a local traitor (Ephialtes - boo!) tells him of the mountain pass that will allow him to outflank the Greeks below. Leonidas has excruciating choices to make and resigns himself to death, but not before dropping a series of action hero one-liners that had Schwarzeneggar taking notes. So molon over, don’t linger in the labe, and rest easy—the bon mots in this one fly so thick you’ll be listening in the shade.
Is this Shhhparta? In this episode Jeff and Dave (with help from Peter Green) make their way toward the narrow pass at Thermopylae and lay the groundwork for one of the most crucial and mythic battles in the history of Western civilization. What led up to this heroic and tragic encounter? We watch as Darius the Great gets out-run at Marathon, Darius’ son Xerxes I seeks revenge with a horde of wicker-wearing Immortals, and the Greeks squabble over where to make a stand and how to pronounce “isthmus”. Join us by channeling your inner Leonidas and inexplicably brushing up on your Scottish accent.
Don’t forget to join us this week as we ask the question, “What’s the best way to develop a super memory?” 16th century memory mavens William Perkins and Alexander Dicson each thought he knew best, and the result was a full-on, throttle-your-Aristotle dustup. Leaning on more familiar thinkers Giordano Bruno and Peter Ramus, P and D hash out competing memory systems. Should it be image-based, or use dialectical trees? Do walnuts and a decent haircut help? Come along with us for a tour de force of – wait, what was that again? And be sure to check our social media for a free giveaway of the big fat Perkins Volume 6.
This week Dave and Jeff wrap up their journey through Euripides’ Alcestis and the second half has everything—weeping, wailing, sarcastic dads, guest stars on their way to wrangle flesh-eating horses. You know, typical theater fare. Yes, Admetus continues his mope-a-thon, but suddenly Heracles himself shows up and who hasn’t been in that cliched situation where you’re trying juggle a funeral and a call-the-cops house party? Then hang on tight for the twist ending. What does it all mean? Is it time for cheering or more mourning? Strange, silent, veiled women showing up at the last minute have a way of unsettling a household.
This week Dave and Jeff wade into the deep waters of Greek Tragedy for the first time with a two-part look at Euripides’ Alcestis. Even devotees of tragedy may not be familiar with this one! But before we get there we poke around at a few questions: why did tragedy arise in Athens? Why did actors wear masks, and what's a deus ex machina? Then it’s on to Euripides himself—a poet well ahead of his time and the man the Athenians loved to hate—and his macabre marital masterpiece Alcestis. Apollo and Thanatos (NOT the purple guy) trade rap-battle insults while hubby Admetus behaves so insufferably maybe you’d die to get away from him too!
Filling every nook and cranny, Jeff and Dave this week focus on their fears, and the 8th century B.C. pottery masterpiece known as the Dipylon Vase. What drives an artist and a culture to create a work like this in which every inch of the surface is covered? Is there something to this “fear of the empty space”? What about the funeral scene that dominates the titular objet d'art, and when is that crunchy, creamy Jif sponsorship coming through? So come on in for a whirlwind tour of early Greek art, play a quick game of Where’s Waldopolous?, and even learn about Edward Hopper’s influence on Alfred Hitchcock. And don’t forget to water the ferns…unless you’re a pteridophobe, that is.
This week Dave and Jeff take a sober look at the political assassination of Marcus Tullius Cicero, December 7, 43 B.C. As Octavian and Mark Antony reach détente, heads must roll. And first on the platter is that of poor Tully. Come along as we take the train out of Rome from Termini station on a gray January day and head down to Formiae. We recount the last hours of the famous orator with the help of Plutarch and Dio Cassius. Though he died without a fight, Cicero spent his last months excoriating the wild debauchery of Mark Antony in his famous Philippics. Finally, join your hosts on a walk up the path to the great man's so-called tomb. What is this place? Is Cicero actually buried here? Does it commemorate the spot of his death instead? Or was it, maybe, just an ancient Subway restaurant? Listen fresh.
This week Jeff and Dave tag along with Cicero to sunny Tuscany where they find Cato Uticensis knee-deep in a pile of books on Stoicism. Gorging on books (helluari libris) and literary addiction (aviditas legendi) is our theme as we share favorite authors and works from the ancient and modern worlds. First up is a primo piatto of Plato, followed by savory servings of Sophocles, and Apuleian “afters.” If you still have room for more, stroll out with Jeff and Kazantzakis for a nightcap on Crete, and join Dave as he doles out cigars and Scotch to C.S. Lewis and Thomas Sowell. Which books have you feasted on recently?
This week Dave and Jeff access a Pylon and head back to the beginning—Hesiod’s Theogony (c. 700 BC), the closest thing we get to a canonical creation myth for the ancient Greeks. In between aggressive sickle-wielding, “foam births”, and largely pointless references to ‘90s movies, we find out where both the gods and the physical universe come from and why, in the end, Zeus does it best. If that’s not enough, tune in to witness Dave actually letting Jeff recite some Greek for once, two Aphrodites for the price of one, and big daddy Kronos angling for a guest-spot.
Jeff and Dave get into the dirt with the archaic Greek poet Hesiod (c. 700 B.C.) and his seminal poem Works and Days. Is this near contemporary a match for Homer or does he deserve his (well-cultivated) second banana status? What should we think about the justice of Zeus, two kinds of competition (was Hesiod a capitalist?), fire-stealing, the myth of Pandora, and whether might makes right? Don't miss the five ages of mankind, from Golden right down through the Iron(ic), Age of Ultron in which we live. And one more thing--if you're not buying your fennel by the stalk, are you doing it right?
Jeff and Dave lead you on a tour down into the Scavi below St. Peter's Basilica in Vatican City, Rome. We take a look at some of the historical and archaeological evidence for the martyrdom and burial of the Apostle Peter. Did Peter die in Rome? Was he buried there? What is the long history of this site, from the reign of Nero, Constantine the Great, and Pope Julius II, right down to the mysteries and intrigue of Pope Pius XII and the brilliant Italian archaeologist Margherita Guarducci? What is so important about the 'graffiti wall'? Also, tune in for the special coupon code from our fabulous new sponsor, Hackett Publishing.
Dave and Jeff serve up some Northern Renaissance art with a close look at Flemish painter Pieter Brueghel the Elder’s mysterious and haunting take on the Daedalus and Icarus myth. Is it a response to Ovid’s version of the tale or something else altogether? Jean Claude VanDamme stops by with a waffle sampler, and don’t miss: fat man on the menu. We also get at the lingering question, “Will Dave ever reveal his high school nickname?” Tune in and make sure to click on “Show Notes” for useful visuals.
This week Jeff and Dave take a close look at the Roman poet Ovid's (43 B.C. - 18 A.D.) first public work, Amores I.1. We cover such important literary notions as recusatio, ἀδύνατον, and what it must be like to live in Des Moines, IA. Come for the literature, stay for the measured mayhem. Apollo at war, Mars playing rhythm guitar, Venus with sword and helmet, and Athena fanning love's flames. It's a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world.
This week Dave and Jeff watch—sometimes through their fingers—Wolfgang Petersen’s sweaty, beardy epic, Troy (2004). Come along as we revisit the film after several years of peaceful forgetfulness. Was it as bad as we thought? More fit for a shampoo commercial than a tour-de-force of bravado aristeia? Some highlights: a) musing over whether the film embodies a “Homeric Spirit” b) the “Tiresias” award for most obnoxious performance (Orlando, we’re looking at you), and c) the real question, better with the gods or without? Don’t be a heel—tune in.
In this episode Dave and Jeff make their way through the life and (mis)adventures of Heinrich Schliemann, the German polyglot, tycoon, and romantic who was instrumental in the discovery of the sites of ancient Troy and Mycenae. Who was this man? Was he a legitimate archaeologist? A mad genius? A grave robber? Charlatan? All of the above? Come along as we dig up Priam's Treasure, death masks that resemble puffer fish, as well as tackle weighty questions such as "Did the Mycenaeans tweak their handle-bar moustaches with some sort of ancient Brylcreem?". And fellas: don't miss some hot tips for finding that special lady who exudes an "Homeric Spirit".
Is the Homeric world make-believe, or is there a juicy, historical core at the center of these exciting adventure stories? We discuss some of the archaeological, geographical, and linguistic evidence for the truth behind the legend. Boar's-tusk helmets, Nestor's cup, elaborate burials, a catalog of ships, Hansel and Gretel, casserole - this episode has it all.
Dave and Jeff finish off their tour through some of the narrative and aesthetic aspects of Homer's first epic, the Iliad. Death on all sides, as Patroclus and Hector bite the dust, plus greaves, shields, and the Superman paradox. Come for the appetizers, stay through dessert.
Achilles, Agamemnon, Briseis, Chryseis, Diomedes, a face that launched a thousand ships...Join us for Part 1 of our journey through the Iliad. It's going to be epic!
In this inaugural episode we introduce our listeners to Ad Navseam and discuss what it means to think about the Classics as a way of life.