Beyond Billables: Recent Episodes
Beyond Billables
The Beyond Billables podcast is for anyone seeking inspiration in their career or business. As a marketer, former lawyer and recruitment business owner I love to share the stories of ambitious professionals who overcome the fears that hold many of us back.
Today, our good friend (and powerhouse business mogul), Caralee Fontenele, joins us on the show. Caralee is the director of Scalable Law, a firm helping lawyers grow their business to new heights. She is also the director of Collective Family Law, founded in 2008. But wait – there’s more. When she isn’t busy running her two firms, Caralee is also a successful podcast host, author, and co-ordinator of business conference Law Biz Con and retreats! Like we said, powerhouse.
During the show, we discuss:
- How Caralee grew her law firm to multiple 7-figures
- Why she stated and grew Scaleable law and Caralee's passion for helping other law firms owners
- The importance of repeatable, scalable process and why that is the secret to a better firm
- The power of shared experience and enjoying the journey with other business owners
- Legal and content marketing, podcasting and trying new things
- Taking the plunge growing the business internationally
- Why LawBiz Con was so successful in year 1 and what is to come in year 2
- Managing the juggle of family life with multiple businesses
Our guest this week, Mollie Tregillis, coaches clever women to reconnect with themselves and find their own unique ways to thrive in work and life.
Mollie is also a facilitator, strategic advisor, former lawyer, and legal operations director – she’s impressively worn many hats in the last few years, with all of her experience driving her passion to help other women.
On the show, we discuss
- Pursuing a career in law and legal operations
- What are legal operations, and how can they empower law firms
- Stress, anxiety, overwhelm and overwork
- Taking big career leaps
- Fear of publishing and perfectionism
Fractional GCs are the rage right now. My awesome guest this week, Celeste Norman, happens to be one of the best!
Celeste owns Rayne Legal, a law firm delivering fractional legal, risk, compliance, and governance to financial services firms. Not just a great lawyer, Celeste deeply understands all commercial drivers of financial services businesses and has set out to create a business to help them launch and grow – in what is a pretty tough regulatory environment.
On the show, we discuss:
- What is a fractional GC?
- Starting your own firm
- Focusing on your key clients' problems
- Being proactive and entrepreneurial
- Positioning yourself as a trusted expert from the outset
- Juggling law with being a busy parent
- The Risk Reward Podcast
Meet voice coach and public speaking sensation, Sally Prosser.
Sally’s mission is simple: to help business owners find their authentic voice, speak with confidence, and land their message clearly.
With several impressive qualifications, including a licentiate diploma in speech & drama teaching, and a bachelor of laws and media communication (majoring in journalism); Sally is more than experienced when it comes to strategic speech. She even spent 8+ years as a TV and radio news reporter for several major networks!
On today’s show, you will learn:
- How Sally grew a great personal brand and built an international business on LinkedIn, Tik Tok and Instagram
- How to improve your communication to make a greater impact when it’s needed
- How to overcome the communication mental hurdles, manage stress and deal with stage fright
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Practical ways to better communicate and hold attention
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How to empower your team and give them confidence in presenting
Thanks for joining us, Sally!
If done well and from an authentic place, imagery can completely change the perception and success of your business.
Today, we host the brilliant Kate Karanges, owner of imagery and production agency The Latest. For full disclosure, Kate has taken our images for the last few years – and has also worked with our clients – so we know how significant the impact of her images can be.
This episode, however, is about more than just pretty photos. Kate explains why brand and strategy are vital for professional firms to differentiate themselves from competitors. It isn’t just about landing more work; but increasing relatability and trustworthiness. In the end, a trustworthy brand converts more clients and creates a stronger team.
On today’s show, you will learn:
- How to use imagery better to stand out from your competitors
- Why you need a clear strategy and great branding to complement your imagery
- How to get better results from your social media efforts
- The time and work it takes to make one beautiful image
- Why excellence matters and how to continually pursue it and test yourself
- Why you need to be kind to yourself as a business owner
- How to manage your expectations and maintain a long-term outlook
- Managing the family juggle and running a business as a parent
Thanks for joining us, Kate!
At Beyond Billables, we help professional firms with their brand, marketing, and overall strategy. Check us out at https://www.beyondbillables.com/
Meet John Farren, Partner and Co-Founder of Farren McRae Workplace Lawyers & Consultants – and one of the very best lawyers on LinkedIn! As a leading employment lawyer, John saw the opportunity LinkedIn presented to build relationships and leverage his time. Since then, he has made LinkedIn central to his business success.
John has quite the story, from professional trumpet player to business owner and now leading employment lawyer. John shares openly why he thinks other lawyers need to fully embrace their own stories.
What makes John’s approach to LinkedIn so noteworthy, is that it is achievable for anyone willing to put in the work. We delve into his strategy, his content creation process, and how others like you can start reaping LinkedIn success.
During the show, you will learn about:
- How over 50% of John’s leads originate from LinkedIn,
- Practical strategies to grow on LinkedIn for all professionals,
- Content ideas and batching content,
- How firms can empower their people to grow their brands,
- How John and his partner Alison have created a firm culture that rewards success,
- Why their firm focusses on senior practitioners,
- Finances and cash flow,
- Meditation and exercise
Thanks for joining us, John!
How come some businesses can scale, and others can’t? Have you thought about advertising, but found it all too complex? On today’s show, I sat down with Lauren Swidenbank, Founder of Cali Social and owner of Collabosaurus.
Lauren is truly a guru of all things online advertising, so I was excited to pick her brain on your behalf over Google Ads, Meta Ads, LinkedIn ads and everything in between. We discussed how critical strategy is, the role of content and your wider brand, and how to measure success. Lauren walked me through each step of the process in determining what type of advertising strategy could work, and highlighted some of the key differences between platforms that business owners need to know.
Today you’ll learn:
- The key basics of Google Search ads and what you need to know
- The type of ads she uses now to promote Cali Social
- How Cali Social used advertising to expand internationally
- How to evaluate whether an ad campaign is working
- The importance of strategy and getting your messaging right
- Why a good ad campaign can take time to bare fruit and the key time frames to be aware of
- The power of collaboration and how Collabosaurus empowers businesses of all sizes
- The role of AI in online advertising now and into the future
- How Lauren manages to run two businesses and the habits she has had to develop to stay healthy and well.
Thanks for joining us, Lauren!
To find out more about how we help professional services firms with their brand and marketing strategy, brand design, websites and content creation check us out at https://www.beyondbillables.com/
Meet Leanne Hughes, self-proclaimed ‘thought breeder’; successful business strategist, author and podcaster! Leanne’s biggest focus? To have a great business, you need a great team – and Leanne is an expert in helping grow them.
With a background in psychology, and experience working for a range of organisations; Leanne set out on her own as a consultant in 2019 and hasn’t looked back. Her joy lies in helping everyday people create extraordinary experiences – for themselves, their teams, and their businesses and communities. Leanne offers 1-1 training with businesses, as well as courses and public speaking appearances.
On today’s show, you will learn:
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How to identify organisational and cultural issues in your business that are costing you money;
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Practical steps to build a great team culture and process;
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How Leanne has used LinkedIn to build an international personal brand where 80% of her work is overseas;
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Why you should think about starting a podcast and writing a book;
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The surprising difference becoming a published author can make;
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How to lean into your strengths and forget about the “haters”;
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How great teams “market” themselves internally in organisations;
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The power of “frentors” and why business leaders need to lean on their peers.
We’re so grateful to have you join us, Leanne!
Meet Steph Taylor, self-confessed corporate dropout turned online business entrepreneur. Steph is part of the Hubspot network; and the host of the Imperfect Action podcast, with over 800 episodes recorded.
So what does she actually do? Well, in a nutshell, Steph helps her clients build reliably profitable online businesses so they can spend less time on work and gain more time to enjoy their life. Steph's passion lies in helping other business owners and entrepreneurs become self-made superstars, following the same formula she used.
If you've ever wanted to build a 7 figure online business, while still being able to live the life you want? Then this episode is for you.
Today, you’ll learn:
- What to do when you're just starting out in business,
- How shared purpose and connection can save your business,
- How to bounce back from a mega flop,
- Why strategy is so important when launching,
- The secret to building an engaged community,
- And so much more!
Thanks for joining us, Steph!
To find out more about how we help professional services firms with their brand and marketing strategy, brand design, websites and content creation check us out at https://www.beyondbillables.com/
Today’s smiling guest is the one and only Jason Malouin.
Jason is a creative wizard, founder and incredible portrait photographer at Super Power Portraits. He also happens to be all around one of the most infectiously positive people I know.
With his incredible energy and commitment to insanely good photos, Jason helps his clients show up at the top of their game. From portraits in Pennsylvania to being booked and busy in Brisbane Australia, Jason shares his incredible journey and the power of a big hearted commitment to helping real people portray themselves with authenticity, honesty and integrity.
Today you’ll learn:
-How to get more clients by communicating what your real skills are
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How to unlock your personal brand super power
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Why imagery is so powerful and how to use it to stand out
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How to make hard, life changing decisions in business and life
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The power of rebranding and refocusing your message
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Why everyone hates photos of themselves, and how to overcome it
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Why mindset matters and how to get through tough times as a business owner
Ever felt a little unsure of your place in the world, and your industry? Know the familiar pangs of imposter syndrome? Buckle up, this episode is for you!
Thanks again, Jason!
Meet Ella Doyle, social media expert and founder of Social Cut agency. Ella may not have intended on being an agency owner, but that’s what happened after she was begged to help with a friend's social content over 8 years ago.
Can you build a successful agency by accident? Yes! Are there still heaps of opportunities to grow your business using content? Absolutely! Fast forward 8 years, and Ella has quite the story to tell about growing an agency, surviving Covid and recessions, and all the ups and downs that go into running a business.
Social Cut is an organic-first social media content agency. They help a broad range of businesses with content, social media and engagement.
To say we covered some ground on this show is an understatement. When you listen you will learn -
- Types of content for Instagram and TikTok,
- Why professionals shouldn’t be scared to make content,
- Why you need to be strategic across platforms,
- How Ella has never had to advertise because of great social media and SEO,
- Why engagement is so important to build community and connection,
- How to navigate tough economic times.
- How your team comes first and clients second,
- Why getting your team involved in your socials is critical,
- Some great tools and processes for approaching your social media.
Thanks for joining us, Ella!
Want to take your business's brand and marketing to the next level? Download our free “better client” audit and identify the areas of opportunity where you can become more profitable and build a better business.
To find out more about how we help professional services firms with their brand and marketing strategy, brand design, websites and content creation check us out at https://www.beyondbillables.com/
Chapters -
Welcome to Ella
- Introduction to Ella, her background, and previous interactions with the podcast.
About Social Cut
- Ella discusses the foundation and focus areas of Social Cut, her social media agency.
PR and Brand Awareness
- The importance of creating brand awareness and the experiential approach to social media.
Process for New Clients
- Steps taken when a new client approaches Social Cut, including evaluating current messaging and content strategies.
Common Mistakes in Social Media
- Discussion on the common mistakes businesses make, such as inconsistent posting and lack of engagement.
Best Platforms for Businesses
- Analyzing which social media platforms are best suited for different types of businesses and the importance of not spreading too thin.
Challenges with TikTok
- Addressing the challenges businesses face with TikTok, particularly the need for constant content production.
Importance of Engagement
- The significance of engaging with the audience on social media platforms to build relationships and drive growth.
Agency Structure and Team Involvement
- The need for team commitment in creating diverse and engaging content.
Strategic Posting on Instagram
- Strategies for posting on Instagram, including balancing different types of content and using scheduling tools.
Generating Leads
- Approaches to generating leads through organic social media versus paid advertising.
Evolution and Challenges of Social Cut
- Ella’s journey in evolving Social Cut, dealing with market changes, and maintaining client relationships.
Day-to-Day Operations
- A typical week for Ella, focusing on team management, strategy, and client meetings.
Pricing and Financial Management
- How Social Cut determines pricing based on overheads and project time requirements.
Sources of Inspiration
- Agencies and individuals that inspire Ella and influence her approach to creativity and business.
Future Goals for Social Cut
- Goals for the future, including potential expansion and maintaining a strong team and client base.
Managing Stress and Mental Health
- Ella’s approach to managing stress and mental health as a business owner, including the importance of therapy.
Relocating for Business
- The reasons behind relocating to Sydney and how it has impacted the business.
Measuring Success
- Ella’s criteria for measuring success, primarily focusing on happiness and the well-being of her team.
It's our last podcast episode of the current season!
This week, we're joined by Dan Mackay and Michael Chapman from Melbourne-based firm Mackay Chapman. Mackay Chapman are high-stakes regulatory, financial services, insolvency and complex disputes lawyers – and they also happen to be two of our long-term, ongoing clients (and friends in business).
Specialists at what they do and with 25 years of shared experience, Dan and Michael's work is focussed on understanding how key players in client matters think, feel and act, to provide the strategies and confidence needed to protect their interests.On today's episode, we discuss the journey of building an expert legal services firm while being comfortable in your points of difference.
We also analyse the 'on the tools' vs working on your business question; and the realities of managing the lawyer/business/family juggle.
Brad Turville is a strategic advisor who works with business owners to better manage, grow and exit their business – something he successfully did himself before showing others how to do the same. Recently, his work has a specific focus on strategic planning and financial management consulting.
Brad’s portfolio is impressive, with experience in running workshops and group accountability programs. He can often be found speaking at conferences, strategy days, and virtual events with a focus on profit and cash flow improvement.
On today’s episode, we take a look at Brad’s story; growing his own accounting and advisory firm and successfully exciting. He explains key financial issues for professional businesses, strategic decision making, and the importance of implementing the right tools and technology to help run your business.
Tyrone is an expert in Australian estate planning and wealth protection. He founded firm Empire Law with the goal of helping Australians protect their businesses and secure their wealth so that they may leave a legacy behind for their families. His passion for estate planning and belief that tailored estate planning isn’t exclusively for the rich and famous – but for every Australian – is admirable. Tyrone has a talent for translating complicated and daunting legal jargon into plain language that can be understood, and more importantly, easily related to.
Join us for a discussion around the importance of protecting your legacy, growing a business as a solo-preneur, evolving your skills and growing over time, taking advantage of the opportunities given to you and trying to make the most of them
Andrew Goldstein is Managing Director and Founder of Goldstein Legal, a boutique legal practice advising and supporting financial services businesses.
Andrew’s legal background includes several years in private practice with mid and top tier firms, and several years a senior in-house practitioner with Macquarie, Challenger, Australian Ethical and Ardea.
Now, his focus is on the legal needs of investment managers, platforms and other regulated investors along with their adjacent counterparties and service providers.
On the show we had a great discussion about the role of GC's, the financial services industry as a whole and how Andrew has developed a strong business having ventured out on his own.
Chris Kondou works alongside driven & passionate CEO's to build financial strategies and unlock business growth. He has lend his guiding hand across a wide range of industries, from professional services, to manufacturing & wholesale.
Chris has recently embarked on his biggest challenge as founder of his own CFO Advisory firm, finding a new passion for business development & entrepreneurship.
On the show, we discuss the importance of challenging ourselves both in business and life, how to build a new business from scratch in your 50's, and even get a peak into Chris’ marathon training and his view on embracing forced discomfort.
On the show this week, we welcome Tim Whybourne, Managing Partner at Emanuel, Whybourne and Loehr, an investment advisory firm with offices in Sydney and Brisbane.
EW&L have also been an ongoing Beyond Billables client for the last eighteen months.
On the show we discussed Tim's career, how he and the team have grown EW&L, and the challenges all professional services firms face. We also discussed markets broadly and Tim's strategy
Tim has more than 15 years’ experience at the sharp end of financial services and planning. His experience has been garnered from more than a decade in financial services including CommSec, FP Markets, UBS Wealth, and Morgan Stanley.
Aside from investments, we also discuss building strong client relationships, and tailoring to high net-worth clients.
Obviously, nothing discussed in the show should be taken as financial advice at all and all discussions were general in nature.
Stefanie Costi is a speaker, writer and lawyer whose true passion lies in advocating for a safer and more inclusive future of work.
After an experience with bullying left Stef with workplace PTSD, she decided to share her story to help make a real difference.
Stef has delivered keynotes on workplace bullying, psychological safety at work and mental health at the National Press Club of Australia, the University of Technology, Sydney and Canva. She has also been a guest speaker at The College of Law Australia.
In this episode, we discuss navigating workplace bullying, creating a safe workplace for all, and of course reflect on Stef's personal journey.
In this week's Beyond Billables podcast I sat down with Devan King, founder of Ikigai Wealth. Devan has a fantastic story and shared his insights on business and life over the course of what was a very enjoyable show. Devan has a great philosophy that drives his business which I know will resonate with a lot of our listeners.
Devan is a financial planner with over 15 years of industry experience. His career is marked by a significant achievement in building and subsequently exiting a successful wealth management business in South Africa.In 2016, relocating to Australia, and now doing it all again (but even better) with Ikigai Wealth.
His extensive experience spans across various facets of the industry; including roles in corporate wealth management entities and boutique firms. This diverse background has equipped him with the skills to cater to a wide range of clients, from high net-worth individuals to ambitious young professionals and business owners.
In this episode, we discuss the importance of setting financial goals that will actually make you happy and pay off long term – and how to unlock those kinds of opportunities.
On the show this week, we welcomed back the always outstanding James d'Apice, founder of Gravamen, and 'Coffee and a Case Note'. Today, we answer one fundamental question I get a lot - can social media help you grow a real business?
For James, the answer is "absolutely"! As one of Australia's most prolific professional services content creators, James has been building a personal brand across social media for the last 5 years, and this ultimately has given him the ability to recently launch his law firm, Gravamen.
We discuss his motivations for launching the firm, what he hopes to achieve professionally and personally, and what he has learned in the first 6 months in business.
James spills many insights on social media for lawyers, and what he would do if he was starting out in 2024.
Aside from business, we also discuss our motivations as parents, trying to create businesses that fit with our family lives, and how the 'juggle' is a constant WIP.
In this episode of Beyond Billables, Mike engages in a candid conversation with Claire Styles, founder of C Legal and Co. Claire shares her journey of building a successful legal services business over the past two and a half years. The discussion delves into the key elements of her business development strategy, encompassing branding, social media, content creation, and marketing. As a solo entrepreneur specializing in asset protection and tax minimization for high-net-worth individuals and business owners, Claire provides valuable insights into the evolution of her brand and the lessons learned along the way.
The episode explores the importance of networking and relationship-building in the legal profession, with Claire emphasizing the significance of strategic connections over sheer quantity. The conversation also touches on Claire's transition to working from home and how it influenced the refocusing of her business. Listeners gain valuable advice on the delicate balance between personal fulfillment and business success, with Claire encouraging aspiring legal entrepreneurs to align their professional pursuits with their true passions. The episode concludes with a glimpse into Claire's exciting future plans and upcoming guests for Beyond Billables in 2024.
Business development can be a minefield. How do you become great at it? Which strategies work? Which don't?
On the podcast this week, we dive into key questions surrounding BD with returning guest Matthew Hollings, Director of Clients and Marketing at Sky Discovery. While this discussion is largely focussed on business development, we also discuss Matthew’s background in law, the industry of many of our clients.
Matt shares some unique insights on the power of having the right BD strategy; as well as habits and consistency that professionals at all levels can take onboard and implement to help them win more work.
As for Matt himself check out his bio below!
Matthew has been a part of the legal industry for over 12 years. First, as a practising solicitor working in litigation for a large national firm. Second, working in-house for a large financial institution in its disputes team, before moving into the world of legal technology. Matthew has spent the last 9 years using his practical experience as a litigator to support lawyers with eDiscovery solutions that help them to collect, analyse, manage and review the increasing volumes and types of data related to their disputes, regulatory responses and investigations. Working in close partnership with their clients throughout the entire matter lifecycle, Matthew and his colleagues use their legal and technological experience to develop solutions that make the technical, practical and the complex, simple so that those legal teams can focus on the law, and their clients.
AI is changing the SEO game forever.
Is your business ready? Today on the show, I chat with James Banks, Founder of Rankmax.AI. Rankmax is an AI SEO business that assists enterprises looking to leverage the power of AI, and ultimately grow website traffic.
Having worked in the industry for 15 years, James recognised the huge changes AI was bringing which drove him to launch Rankmax in 2023. Today, we dive into everything you need to know about AI, SEO, content and how technology is shaping search engine optimisation.
If your business utilises SEO to generate leads, this is a must listen. More than a business discussion, James also opens up in candid detail on his journey as an entrepreneur. He shares about some of the incredibly tough times that have shaped him as a leader and the pursuit of happiness in business that led him to this point.
https://www.rankmax.ai/
In this week's show, Mike dives into the "Net, Lure and Spear" marketing framework as a way to make better decisions on where you invest your marketing, BD and content investments.
Mike dives into the significance of distinguishing between these three elements when investing time and resources in marketing your business. Net fishing involves broad messaging and brand building, creating a lasting impression. Lure fishing targets specific industry problems with tailored content, while spearfishing is highly focused on individual relationships, often involving personalized communication.
Mike emphasizes the importance of making clear decisions regarding where to allocate time and money within these elements.
On this week's show I sat down with my friend and incredibly successful online business strategist Steph Taylor. Steph helps service-based business owners build profitable and sustainable online businesses that continue to grow even when they’re offline.
This was a great discussion on Steph's business journey, what's worked and what hasn't, and how she has managed to find success. Steph and I worked together for 2 years, so it was great fun to revisit that time, reflect on her journey and hear all her insights on online business. From business to mental health, this is a great discussion on business and life.
In 12 months, Steph took her online business from $100K to $1 million, and the best bit? This didn’t come with the trade-off of more hustle and more time. In fact, by creating a solid online business and sales engine, she was able to take weeks off to hike around the outback with a tent on her back, and be off the grid for a month in a camper van with her furry best pal, Archie. By leaning on strategy over tactics, value over the hard sell, and longevity over quick wins, Steph believes that a successful online business shouldn’t feel like you’re pushing an elephant up the hill, but instead should feel fun, flowy, and fulfilling.
Through her podcast Imperfect Action that’s clocked over 2 million downloads and in supporting over 4,000 paid students and counting, Steph today teaches online businesses how they too can create financial, choice, time, and location freedom through her framework that blends strategy, content, sales, systems, and mindset.
This week, Mike sits down with founders of Oh My Digital, Kaitlyn Gillies & Hayley Peters to chat all things business evolution! Katy & Hayley are a dynamite duo that have grown their agency through hard work and a commitment to constant evolution. We discuss their history, how they tackle the big issues that all business owners face, and how those issues impact on them personally. Join us for a deep-dive into the reality of running an agency, the personal toll of owning a business, and how embracing constant change can help (in all aspects of life).
Oh My Digital are your marketing cheerleaders. We help passionate brands kick marketing goals, backed by a #cheersquad of besties, whether you're a rookie, a pro or anywhere in between! We will educate, inspire & empower you to demystify your marketing once and for all (and have a lot of fun along the way). We offer DIY and done-for-you options, so your brand can grow with us - whatever stage you’re at! We love a good 2000s throwback movie, Friday night cosmos & helping businesses grow with no BS digital marketing advice and strategy.
On the first interview show this year Mike spoke with Dominic Woolrych, Co-founder of Lawpath Australia's number one online legal platform that has helped over 400,000 small businesses across Australia and the US. On the show we discussed Lawpath and Dom’s journey, how they have scaled the business and some of the big questions business owners have to grapple with. Dom shared openly about the challenges of being a non-technical founder, how he has developed as a leader and how he manages it all. More details on Dom’s bio can be found below!
Dom’s mission is to transform and digitalize the legal industry to make it accessible to all small businesses and show lawyers that there are many non-traditional opportunities in the legal sector. Dom is on the advisory board and an Adjunct Professor at the University of Technology and a director of the Australian Legal Technology Association (ALTA). In 2022, Dom became the finalist at SmallBiz Week Young Hero Awards in the Young Innovator category and was voted the top 20 University of Technology Alumni.
As a young entrepreneur, Dom first cut his teeth as a commercial lawyer at Minster Ellison, Australia's largest law firm, where he realized that only a select handful of businesses could afford top legal advice. This experience and his subsequent work representing vulnerable people through Legal Aid gave him the insights and skills needed to disrupt and revolutionize the legal industry. Together with his co-founder Tom Willis, he witnessed how other industries moved their services online and applied this principle to the legal sector. With the automation of tasks and cutting-edge technologies (including AI), he bridged the gap and made gaining legal advice accessible to everyone, especially small businesses. Dom's vision is to continue to build his digital platform and help small businesses globally to access legal support at a fraction of the traditional system's time, cost, and complexity. Today, Lawpath is recognized as one of the top 10 legal start-ups in Australia and the top 50 globally. It is the fastest-growing online legal platform with over 400,000 small business users and has started 5 percent of all companies in Australia.
Welcome back to the Beyond Billables podcast!
It’s been a hot minute and a lot has been happening, but we are excited to once again be making the show. In this first episode of the year Mike shares candidly on the evolution and growth of the Beyond Billables agency, the decision to put the show on hold during his wife’s cancer treatment and the excitement about being back in the podcast chair!
It wouldn’t be a BB show without insight on some key professional services strategies and in the second half Mike dives into the “Work on vs Work in” your business conundrum and shares a 5 step process to help owners, executives, and senior leaders work out what balance suits them.
From Associate in the Supreme Court to playing packed out comedy shows around the world, this week Mike caught up with the incredibly talented Josh Glanc just before Edinburgh Fringe! Josh shared openly about his journey in comedy and the real challenges anyone faces who embarks on a career in a creative field. We spoke about the impact of the pandemic, how he approaches his standup and the reality of getting work as a comedian around the world. This was a very personal, engaging chat with a hugely talented Australian who is destined for great things.
On the show this week Mike spoke with Law Firm SEO expert, Chris Dreyer, CEO and founder of Rankings.io. Rankings.io is an SEO agency that specializes in helping personal injury law firms dominate first page rankings. This was a really interesting discussion on SEO, Content, niching down and the power of brand across everything law firms do. Chris also shared on his own interesting personal journey and how he built his brand through content and the strategies he helps clients implement. Mike also discussed the upcoming launch of Chris’ first book
called: Niching up: The narrower the Market, The Bigger the prize.
On the show this week Mike spoke with the brilliant Rob Dos Santos from Cape Town, South Africa! Once upon a time many moons ago, Rob was a lawyer, practicing Commercial and Corporate law. However, he had a higher calling in life to make films. So one day he decided to ditch the courtroom for the camera and live his dream of being a filmmaker. This was a great show exploring what it means to have passion for your work and the tough journey many people need to go on to find something they love to do. Rob shares candidly and with great humour about his journey and everything it has taken to make it work.
On the show this week Mike sat down with the one and only Clarissa Rayward, law firm owner, podcaster, author and known as the Happy Family lawyer! As well as being the host for the last 6 years of the Happy Lawyer, Happy Life podcast Clarissa is also the Owner of Brisbane Family Law Center, an accredited Family Law Specialist, Mediator, Collaborative Lawyer & all-around superhuman. Over the past 15 years, Clarissa has worked with thousands of families during separation and divorce. She specializes in assisting her clients in experiencing a dignified divorce - staying away from the Court process and finding sustainable agreements for the future.
- Clarissa published her first book, Splitsville: How to Separate, Stay Out of Court and Stay Friends in 2015 (4.6-star review on Amazon)
- Launched her podcast in 2016 the Happy Lawyer, Happy Life
- Happy Lawyer Happy Life: How to Be Happy in Law and in Life published in 2017
- Provides webinars and teaches courses to lawyers
On the show this week Mike sat down with Ryan Loerh, a partner at Emanuel Whyboune. Ryan has over a decade of experience in the financial services industry, having worked for large retail banks, specialist investment firms, Macquarie Group and Morgan Stanley before moving to Emanuel Whybourne with its founders. Having previously studied law Ryan ended up embarking on a career in finance so it was a fascinating discussion on how he achieved this and what skills he learned in law school that helped along the way. Given the economic climate at the moment it was also a great chance to discuss inflation, interest rates and global markets and how someone like Ryan helps problem solve for his clients.
None of our discussion on this podcast should be taken as direct or implied financial advice of any kind and does not constitute personal advice to any person. The discussion may contain statements of opinion by the speakers which are a point in time evaluation current only at the date of publication and are not statements of fact or recommendations of any kind. To the extent permitted by law, neither the presenters or BB, employees or agents accept any liability whether arising in contract, in tort or negligence or otherwise, for any error or ommission in this podcast or for any loss or damage suffered by a recipient of this podcast or any other person acting in reliance upon the information or opinion in this podcast.
On today’s insight show Mike reflects on what they don’t teach you in law school! Having worked in the industry for over two decades now in practice, in recruitment and in marketing what stands out for us is that young lawyers aren’t coming out of law school with some key skills that can help them over their career. Mike focuses in on three key issues around Client Experience, Communication and Business skills that all great lawyers need but that law schools (and many law firms own training and development) just aren’t providing.
On the show this week Mike had a great discussion with Rizwana McDonald, Founder of Foundd Legal. Riz started Foundd as a way to make all of that boring, scary, overwhelming legal stuff both accessible and affordable to entrepreneurs, creatives and designers, so they can have the best shot possible of creating a legal, lucrative, kick-arse brand and business. Marketing pitch aside, Riz has an excellent and unique story of resilience and perseverance. Having been pulled out of school by her family at a young age, Riz was able to ultimately find her own path into the law which has culminated in her very own thriving practice. A truly inspiring entrepreneur and business owner Riz story is for anyone who thinks they can’t make it.
Legal marketing in a recession! Ok, no one wants to hear the big R word, but we wanted to get out in front of it because with rising rates and inflation there is a good chance growth will turn negative this year. The key question is what does that mean for law firms, and for us what does that mean for law firm branding and marketing! In this show Mike dives into three key factors that firm owners need to remember, how to best prepare and the key to pivoting messaging during any time of uncertainty. Historically, recessions and downturns have been great for brands who stay committed to their medium and long-term goals and act strategically, not just reflexively.
On this weeks insight show, Mike discusses social media and what’s happening right now on our favourite platforms. From LinkedIn to Tik Tok we dive into what is working now and what we see coming in the future. One thing is certain, you need to be smart about taking advantage of reaching your audience and making content that is both authoritative and relatable.
On this week's episode of the Beyond Billables Podcast, Mike had the pleasure to interview Francesca Chang. She is certainly an attorney on a journey! Francesca is a blogger, vlogger and life coach who has transformed her life, moved to Taiwan and now helps other lawyers. Francesca has a fascinating story of embracing a better life for herself and her family heritage while working to empower others to do the same. As a travel blogger and vlogger, she also works to promote Taiwan and the slow travel scene. On the show we discussed Francesca’s career, her motivations and the opportunities lawyers have to embrace multi-faceted careers.
On this week's episode of the Beyond Billables Podcast, Mike had the pleasure to interview the fabulous Dr Joanne Redburn, Director of NFP Lawyers. This was a great in-depth discussion about the not-for-profit sector and the challenges and opportunities that exist. Joanne is a true leader in the NFP space in Australia and has worked across some of the most complex NFP projects so it was great to be able to go into detail. Joanne also has a great story having started as a research scientist before transitioning into law because of her love for IP. We discussed this move, managing the juggle of growing practice with a busy family life and how Joanne has built NFP Lawyers from the ground up.
Jahan may refer to himself as a “little guy lawyer”, but we think he is an absolute legend of a lawyer and human. Head of Litigation at Executive Legal, a human rights activist, Tik Tok trailblazer and all around brilliant content creator, Jahan is a leading light in the legal industry. On the show we chatted about all of this, his journey in law and the struggle we all go through finding balance and managing our own expectations. What did I get out of it? A realisation that the authentic and real Jahan that shows up in my Tik Tok is the same passionate person IRL and that a focus on service and value with your content and not sales is the best way to build real connection.
On the show this week was a brilliant discussion I recorded recently with Scott Simmons, Director of Legal Balance. We had a great in depth chat about "selling", "business development" and even the role of pricing. Diving into more of the "business of law" we discussed both the mental approach to growing a practice and the practical steps all lawyers can take. After a successful career in law where he faced similar situations to the lawyers of today, he discovered a love of coaching and training that has seen him coaching young professionals on how to build their own careers, as well as more senior executives to become rainmakers. Scott has spent the last 8 years coaching and training lawyers and regularly writes and speaks on the subject of professional services business development.
This week on the show we had a great conversation with Adam Pascarella, former Attorney and Founder of Second Order Capital Management in the US. Adam is also the author of a great new book, Reversed in Part:15 Law School Grads on Pursuing Non-Traditional Careers. Adam wrote "Reversed in Part" with a desire to help others looking to transition their careers. The book is packed with great stories and we were lucky enough to dive into some on the show.
As a former Baker McKenzie associate and graduate from the University of Pennsylvania Carey Law School Adam has a great story to tell himself and we hope you enjoy hearing it!
Good friend of the podcast Peter Moran joins us on today's episode! Peter is the Founder of Peer Legal, a leading commercial firm in Australia. Peter shares his insights on growing Peer Legal into a thriving team, along with the challenges of operating during the pandemic. As a forward-thinking, progressive firm Peer Legal has grown with purpose and Peter discusses how his deliberate intention to deliver better client service has been behind their success.
Season 3 of the Beyond Billables podcast is back and this season is all about how you can develop your skills and your reputation as an expert in your field. From interview shows to insight episodes this season is focused on giving everyone the tools they need to stand out for all the right reasons. Kicking off Mike spends this short episode talking about 4 key points that define expertise for him.
On the show this week is a great interview with the one and only James Diamond, founder of Diamond law. James is a lawyer from Queensland who certainly rode the wave of starting his own practice. James has quite the following on social media and we spent a big part of the interview discussing his crazy growth on Tik Tok and other channels. As much as I enjoy the marketing chat what I got most out of this interview was James' honesty and openness in discussing the benefits and difficulties of starting out on your own, the hard choices we have to make as business owners and how he has managed that. We also spent some time chatting about the present rights discourse in Australia and the difficulties of discussing rights in the Covid context. James is a really insightful, entertaining lawyer and business person with a keen sense of making the most of his life and opportunities.
This week on the show I welcomed a very special guest, Kristal Naividi, Founder of Coastal Lawyers. Kirstal has an incredible and inspiring story for anyone looking to live their best life. Having grown up in public housing, made her way through university while working full time as a legal secretary and ultimately starting her own practice with three kids and a husband who had just been diagnosed with testicular cancer, Kirstal is a massive inspiration.
On the show we discussed her journey to become a lawyer from such a tough upbringing, the impetus to start her own firm and how she has managed to make it a success so rapidly. Kirstal shares very openly about the hurdles and how she worked to overcome them in her own, incredible way.
Upbeat, infectiously positive and incredibly open Kristal has a unique story that certainly makes me question the things I complain about!
This week on the show I sat down with the one and only Alex Su, Head of Community Development at Ironclad, and the hands down most entertaining lawyer on Tik Tok! Alex was a lawyer at a leading US firm before running his own practice and then making the move into legal tech sales and business development. You may however know Alex from his short video content which he has used to build a remarkable following on Tik Tok, Instagram and LinkedIn.
Alex brilliantly uses humour to make some serious points about what it is like to practice and some of the biggest issues facing the profession including technology change, mental health, overwork and burnout. We had a wide ranging discussion about social media, content creation, the opportunities to reach an audience and the stresses of “putting yourself out there”. Alex is a true leader and it was an absolute highlight to get him on the show.
On the show this week I welcomed back one of the most knowledgeable and engaging experts in legal business development I have ever spoken to, Kim Wiegand, Founder of Julip Advisory and Partner at beaton. Kim has worked in Australia and Internationally for a range of leading legal service providers and brings deep expertise to our discussions on business development and what it means to deliver an outstanding client experience. Armed with both practical and quantitative insight Kim’s advice during our chat is hugely valuable if you want to grow your practice or business.
With the present mental health crisis in Australia, and following the recent suicide of a colleague, Mike speaks openly in this insight show about his struggles with anxiety and the need to keep asking the "r u ok"? question and really mean it.
Mike shares a little about his journey with what is at times crippling anxiety and stress. From the lessons learned in the fight ring, to those shared by friends that motivated him to finally seek help from a mental health professional, this is a personal show about the negative impacts of anxiety and ways to ultimately manage it. The take home? Help is there if you put your hand up, and we can all do a better job of continuing to articulate that and actively supporting those around us.
Rap music, horror movies, slow drip coffee and equity disputes - what do they all have in common? The one and only lawyer and host of Coffee and a Case Note, James d’Apice!
James is a Special Counsel at Chamberlains with a practice that straddles commercial and litigation work. As well as being a great lawyer James has built a strong personal brand in the last few years by leveraging the power of great content. Whether you have come across James on LinkedIn, Instagram or Tik Tok, his passion for the law and for sharing the journey is unrivalled. James not only makes valuable things, but he does it with a consistency that is truly impressive driven by an impressive long term strategy.
On the show, we spoke about all of this and had a great discussion around what we can do to improve the profession now and in the future. James is a passionate advocate for change so it was great to get his insight into what we can do right now and the role we can all play.
On the show this week we hosted the brilliant Gemma Bunner & Kerri Shaw of Shaw & Bunner Legal. As the founders of a fast growing personal injuries law firm in regional Australia Gemma and Kerri have a unique and fascinating story to tell. We spoke about the challenges and benefits of starting your own firm, how they grew the business within the local community, and their ability to manage it all parenting!
Gemma & Kerri have demonstrated the value of building great relationships, investing in growing a brand and reputation, and having foresight to look forward to where they want the business to go (and take action to make it happen).
What are three key things we've learned in the last few years creating the show? You'll have to listen to find out!
In this episode Mike discusses the creation of the Beyond Billables Branding business, the struggles everyone finds with positioning(yes, even us) and the role of ego and status in decision making.
It's been a wild ride bringing this podcast together for the last 4 years so we wanted to say a big thank you to everyone who has been with us on the journey so far!
On the show today we had a great discussion with Kate Sherburn, Legal Beagle (Senior Legal Counsel!) at Who Gives a Crap. No, you didn't read that wrong, Who Gives a Crap is a toilet paper business committed to helping 2 billion people around the world get access to sanitation and clean water.
During the interview we discussed Kate's background, how she ended up working in-house, how she managed during the last 18 months as a busy parent and lawyer, and what she is looking forward to in the future. We also spent some time talking about how businesses and individuals can properly commit to and follow their mission and make a real difference.
Today's show is a great chat I had with Amy Sanders-Robbins. Amy is an Accredited Family Law Specialist and Director at Bespoke Family Lawyers. Amy helps clients resolve family law issues through a holistic, collaborative and resolutions focused approach. Breaking away from tradition, Amy has taken to social media to empower and educate her audience about the separation journey and how to disentangle legally, emotionally and practically from the relationship.
Amy works from the basis that separation can be an opportunity for her clients to rebuild and move forward so they live their best life going forward. It is this future focused approach that leads Amy to creating personalised solutions for your client that take into account the life and social aspects of separation, not just the law!
On the show today I had the absolute pleasure of sitting down with Theo Kapodistrias, General Counsel of UpGuard, Key note speaker, director and Tasmanian ambassador! Theo has been a big supporter of ours over the years so it was terrific to be able to finally sit down with him and get to share his story. What makes Theo stand out so much is not just that he is a great guy, but he has been able to grow a personal brand and really invest the time and effort to make it work. He has gone on to use that to propel his speaking business and create real opportunities in a variety of different areas of his career.
Theo Kapodistrias is a multi-award-winning lawyer and is the inaugural General Counsel of UpGuard. Prior to this, he worked for the University of Tasmania for almost 6 years. He is an ACC Certified In-House Counsel (ICC) having completed the ACC In-house Counsel Certification Program in August 2020.
Theo has been recognized in Australia being named the 2020 Young Lawyer of the Year by the Law Society of Tasmania, the Academia, Training and Education Lawyer of the Year at the 2018 Corporate Counsel Awards, the 2017 and 2018 30 Under 30 (Corporate Counsel), and featured in the 2019 Legal 500 Australian Rising Stars Publication. In addition, he has been shortlisted for several other legal and community service awards.
In addition to his substantive legal role, Theo is a keynote speaker, trainer and facilitator where he assists individuals to be seen, be heard and make an impact.
Theo is a Non-Executive Director and Tasmanian Divisional President of ACC Australia, a Tasmanian Ambassador and Industry Champion with Business Events Tasmania, an ambassador for World Idea Day, and the past Co-President of the Southern Young Lawyers Committee of Tasmania.
Today on the show I had the chance to sit down with my friend and all around legal superstars Mel Scott. For any lawyer interested in building relationships with in-house decision makers this is a must listen episode!
Mel is the Senior Counsel at Megaport, a global technology company founded in Australia, listed on the Australian Stock Exchange in 2015 and now is in the ASX200. She has worked in house for 7 years across multiple industries such as aviation, infrastructure, financial services and now, cloud computing. Mel has previously been awarded the Lawyers Weekly Corporate Counsel 30 Under 30 Award. She is a passionate advocate for all things in-house and shares career insights for law students and graduates on Instagram @theinhouselawyer. She serves as a Member of the Queensland Law Society's In-House Committee and as the In-House Advisor to the Women Lawyers Association Queensland. Mel is a "recovering perfectionist" who believes that done is better than perfect. She launched Counsel, a self-made podcast about in-house lawyer life, during COVID-19 Lockdown.
This week on the show I had a great discussion with John Farren, Director at Farren McRae Workplace Lawyers & Consultants. John has a fascinating background in the law and life in general having started out his professional life as a musician and ended up running his own firm! We chat about John's journey in the law, how he has grown his practice and his embrace of social media and other marketing channels.
John has extensive experience in all aspects of workplace and employment law. He has represented employers and employees before Workplace and Industrial, Administrative and Statutory Tribunals and Courts at both State and Federal levels, and is a skilled workplace investigator for complex workplace relations matters.
With a special interest in dispute resolution, John is also an experienced workplace mediator. His mediation approach assists the parties to identify the root causes of their conflict and agree on how to positively move their working relationships forward.
Before co-founding Farren McRae, John practised as a Barrister-at-Law at the Queensland Private Bar for over six years. He chose to move to practising as a solicitor as he believed he could more effectively help individual employers and employees resolve complex workplace disputes and issues as a solicitor in his own firm.
In this short insight show Mike discusses 20 key tips to help you kickstart your 2021. From having a mentor, to guarding your time and everything in between, this 20 minute show will help you get the year off to a great start. While it focuses on business owners there are a heap of tips for anyone looking to move ahead in their career.
In this special edition of the Beyond Billables podcast it was my privilege to speak with Jacob Little, founder of About Time for Justice. Jacob was subjected to abuse in institutionalised care, spent time in prison and ultimately has come out to rebuild his life and help others who go through institutionalised abuse. This is an honest and raw discussion where Jacob shares so openly about his story. Having started About Time for Justice this year Jacob has turned his life around, finished his high school studies and is on track to start a degree and ultimately fulfil his dream of becoming a lawyer. We discussed what more can be done to protect kids, what Jacob is trying to do to empower people who have been subjected to abuse, and how he has managed to rebuild his life from scratch.
On the show today I had the great pleasure of sitting down with Michael Kemp, founder of Kemp Law one of Queensland’s largest PI law firms.
This is one of the best discussions I’ve had on the ups and downs of growing a firm as Michael shared very openly on the challenges and opportunities. He clearly loves what he does and has a real passion for helping his clients but it's certainly been a journey.
Michael’s business was built through the power of personal brand and connection and he shares how he invested in this in good and bad times. Importantly, we also discussed how busy firm owners can better manage their mental health, and how Michael’s very successful partner has been a huge part of his story.
On today's show I sat down with Brad Vinning, corporate and commercial partner at Sparke Helmore Lawyers. Brad was one of my first ever guests three years ago and after our first podcast Brad went and started his own!
He shared on the journey of starting and marketing a podcast, what he learned and what he gained both for his practice and personally.
We chatted at length about the ups and downs of the last year, how he managed his practice and what we are looking forward to in 2021.
On the show today I had the great pleasure of sitting down with Tegan Boorman. Tegan is an Australian corporate, commercial and intellectual property lawyer who saw a niche market in creating commercial legal agreements for influencer marketing campaigns and collaborations, as well as terms and conditions for social media competitions, online businesses and digital courses. Social Law Co. was established to service that niche market.
During the course of her career, Tegan has acted for clients of various sizes, from individuals and small start ups through to companies listed on the ASX. Her industry expertise includes retail, publishing, travel, tourism and professional services.
She juggles lawyer life as well as mum life on the Gold Coast, where her young family is based.
LinkedIn has become one of the critical social platforms for individuals and businesses to grow their brands. In this short pod Mike goes through 7 ways to supercharge your results on LinkedIn for 2021. From personal brands to leads, creative content to connection, he shares what works and what doesn't to help you up your LinkedIn game.
How would you bounce back after the business you’ve worked on for a decade fails (and everyone in the country knows about it)? What if I told you your wife is heavily pregnant, you have to leave the country, you lost investors a packet and you’ve been wiped out in the process?
For my friend Michael Fox, he put his head down, found a new passion, and got back into the game and is already making a huge success of it.
On the show today I am so glad to share my recent interview with the Co-founder of Fable, former Co-Founder of Shoes of Prey and one-time lawyer Michael Fox. I’ve known Michael since law school, and have enjoyed many great chats over the years as well as learned a hell of a lot watching his journey. We discussed his exciting new venture Fable, his journey with Shoes of Prey and how he found purpose again and jumped back into the entrepreneurial ring. Michael’s story is inspiring and important in these hard times for anyone who might be struggling. Whatever happens in business, you can rebuild and can re-invent yourself in ways that serve others and allow you to live your values.
In this leaders in lockdown podcast I got to catch up with my friend and one of the most entertaining people I know, EJ Wise. EJ is a cybersecurity expert who happens to have also been a lawyer in the armed services for over 20 years so had a very interesting perspective on the present crisis and how to best manage it. We spoke about planning for now and for the future, taking an "ends first" approach, and tactics for better managing on the home front! We also dove into how we can manage the mental health aspects of the crisis and help others around us. As always even in difficult times EJ brought her amazing humour and insight to our discussion.
https://www.wieselaw.com.au
In this leaders in lockdown episode I had the pleasure of catching up with my friend and former podcast guest Fionn Bowd of Bowd Legal. Fionn is one of the deepest thinkers about the legal industry and we were able to have a really interesting chat about the good and bad of the industries response to date. We also discussed where see larger firms heading on the back of the rapid changes brought on by the crisis, opportunities for lawyers to become central decision makers in business, remote work and how new models will be increasingly embraced as firms see they can have success being nimble.
www.bowd.legal
In this leaders in lockdown episode I caught up with my friend and awesome former podcast guest Fiona Nguyen of Girl Friday IP. Fiona and I chatted about IP, Brand and taking the opportunity to fix things we've kicked down the road in our business. We also went quite deep discussing the mental side of managing the crisis at home, how we try and focus internally when external pressures are the hardest and what we see are opportunities in the short term to try and make good medium term change.
https://www.girlfridayip.com/
In this leaders in lockdown show I spoke with "The Remote Expert" and former podcast guest Emma Heuston! Emma's entire business is built on helping businesses work remotely so it was great to chat to her about how she does it, the difficulties of working remotely in the present environment, and what steps businesses of all sizes can take. As a lawyer and business owner Emma has great insight to share on how we can all better manage the juggle.
https://www.theremoteexpert.com/
On our second "Leaders in lockdown" podcast I was so glad to speak with my friend James d'Apice. James is a commercial disputes lawyer in Sydney at Makinson d'Apice who also happens to be the genius behind the "Coffee and a Case Note" video series and podcast. James shared on working from home, managing the juggle with his partner and kids, and the changes that the present crisis might make to the way we work long term.
In this time of crisis our stories are more important than ever. So we wanted to share how many of our podcast guest and friends are handling the stress and change of the present crisis, what they see as changing in their businesses as this plays out, and how they are handling the juggles of work and life.
In the first show I was honoured to speak with Karen Finch, Founder of Legally Yours and great friend of BB. Karen is a remarkable business owner, mum of 4 and hugely positive person who has some great wisdom to share on this show. We chatted about managing family life, our partners, what the legal profession is going to look like for the rest of the year, and opportunities for the future.
https://legallyyours.com.au/
What a crazy last few weeks right? For most of us around the world our lives and work have been turned upside down. In these tough times it's clear that we need people who can lead to step up. Especially all of you in professional services, your clients need you now more than ever. While that might be hard when we feel a bit knocked down, that's ok you can lead by supporting as well. So in the show today I covered 10 ways to be a leader and a supporter in this time of crisis.
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Use everything at your disposal
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Be an ally to your clients
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Have a clear plan
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Be bold and brave
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Take responsibility for your team
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Work hard on the home front
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Stay well
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Do your bit for your country
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Don't hoard resources
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Get help if you are overwhelmed
The show is back! We've been "off the air" for a couple of months but planning a big 2020 for the BB podcast! On the show today is a clip from the brilliant Fiona Nguyen, as well as a piece I recorded on insecurity with branding and marketing our own businesses.
In rare company is today's guest who makes her second appearance on the show! I recently caught up with Marianne to chat about the last two years at Legalite, how she has grown the firm so successfully, and what the future holds.
Marianne is the founder and principal lawyer of Legalite - a new kind of law firm that aims to simplify legal services. Since establishing the firm in 2017, Marianne has successfully led Legalite in becoming a market-leading firm in the business and franchising space.
In 2018, she was awarded Sole Practitioner of the Year at the Lawyer’s Weekly Australian Law Awards, and more recently, she was named Partner of the Year (SME) in the 2019 Lawyer's Weekly Women in Law Awards.
Marianne’s passion for delivering easy to understand advice and her strong focus on client relationships has made her a true standout in the industry. So much so, that for two years in a row, Legalite was named Australia's Best Law Firm in the NAB Professional Services Awards - an award judged entirely by clients.
In the next few shows I'll be focusing on 7 huge lessons I've learned this year plus drop some more awesome clips from recent guests. On today's show I chat about the lag time in dealing with stress and anxiety, there's a great clip from my recent interview with Dugald Hamilton on Cyber threats, and we wrap it all up with a huge lesson one of my clients gave me about sticking to my guns.
To read the entire blog - https://www.beyondbillables.com/blog/business-lessons-from-2019
This week on the show I had the pleasure of interviewing my friend, Dugald Hamilton. Dugald is the founder of 23Legal, a Litigation and Insolvency practice in Queensland which has experienced substantial growth over the last few years. Dugald not only has a great story about growing a successful practice but has a keen interest in technology and implementing real solutions in the way legal services are delivered. We chatted at length about the future of law, practical ways law firms can use technology, and what is coming down the road. Having spent some time working from Chicago last year, Dugald was able to share his views on the reality of flexible work and how he was able to maintain his practice while enjoying his time in the windy city! The most enjoyable part of the interview for me was hearing about his journey starting 23Legal, what he has had to overcome, and the lessons that are helping him shape his firm as it grows.
https://www.23legal.com.au/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dugald-hamilton-8595b640/
Today on the show we welcomed the remarkable Cullen Haynes, finance specialist and mortgage broker extraordinaire. Cullen is part of the team at Legal Home Loans who specialise in helping Partners and Barristers with their lending needs. Cullen has a fascinating story that demonstrates the value of focusing on a niche, bringing huge amounts of value, and building a strong brand. As one of the most active people you will find on LinkedIn, Cullen has used video and content to swiftly build a personal and business brand to be proud of. An avid reader and runner, Cullen shares both his journey and what he has learned along the way in what is a very upbeat show. If you’re thinking about how you stand out in your career and want a great example of another professional who has walked the talk in building a personal brand than this is an episode not to be missed.
https://www.legalhomeloans.com.au/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/cullen-p-haynes/
This week on the show I had the tremendous privilege of interviewing EJ Wise, Cyber Lawyer and founder of WiseLaw. EJ has a remarkable story that spans 25 years working in the legal industry with the Australian Federal and State Governments and in private practice specialising in cyber law, policy, advice, international humanitarian law, law of the sea and criminal law! EJ is an internationally recognized cyber law expert who is one of the very few people in Australia with real experience advising on all aspects of cyber.
As well as her love for practice EJ has a real passion for education and is leading the way in bringing cyber threats and the effects on business into the main stream. EJ also served in the defence force and shared on her journey, her time at the Pentagon and what it was like advising on the use of technology in warfare and the role state actors are playing.
If that might all sound too technical don’t worry! EJ is one of the funniest, most engaging people I have had the pleasure of meeting and getting to know this year and this is a show with plenty of laughs as well as learning.
https://www.wiselaw.com.au/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/wiselaw3/?originalSubdomain=au
Today on the show I had a great pleasure of welcoming Sacha Kirk, co-founder and CMO of Lawcadia.
In her role Sacha draws on over 15 years experience in marketing, brand strategy, innovation and professional consulting experience in Australia and the UK. Lawcadia is a legal technology company with a web-based platform in-house legal teams and their law firms can use to manage projects, matters and spend.
We had a great chat about how the business was started, how they have been able to grow internationally, and what the future holds. As a fast growing legal technology company who has made real inroads both in Australia and internationally I was inspired to hear how they backed themselves and have achieved great success.
On the Insight show today we cover quite some ground!
In part one I chat about carving out time to do more stuff you love and give some tips on small changes that can make a big difference. It is a struggle as a busy professional but super important to find even small chunks of time for your own pursuits to make sure you never feel like you are missing out.
Part two is a follow up from my recent interview with Michael Chesterman, Consultant at Helix Legal. Michael makes some great points on collaboration and investment.
And finally in part three I chat Facebook ads, why most firms completely misunderstand them, and how you can use them to grow your brand and footprint.
Today on the show I had the privilege of interviewing Wes Young, lawyer, proud father and Co-Founder of Legally Yours. Wes has a super interesting story which took him from journalism to law and shares his motivations for each step along the way. Wes has worked with some of the best known corporates and corporate personalities in Australia, and brings his experience to Legally Yours in what is a fast growth stage for the company. Wes has a particular passion for helping lawyers gain the personal freedom they need to live healthier and happier lives and we spoke in detail about how he feels this is achievable and the role technology can play.
To find out more check out
https://legallyyours.com.au/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/wesley-young-gaicd-47ba3251/
On today's insight show we share a sneak peak of an upcoming episode with Wes Young, Co-Founder of Legally Yours. I also chat about leads, the way firms can attract more clients, and why you need a short, medium and long term plan. Finally we finish off the show with a short shoutout of a great blog post by Ian Whitworth all about the scourge of saying "I'm busy" and the need to connect with those around us. I share how a training friend who recently took his life made me reflect on this and what I can do to better connect with everyone.
On the show today I had the pleasure of sitting down with Alex Nicol, Director of Aptum Legal and Insolvency practitioner extraordinaire. Alex is a Co-Founder of Aptum Legal, a leading disputes practice that focuses on a range of complex disputes and insolvency work, all with a fixed price model. Alex and I discussed how Aptum Legal have been able to successfully implement a client focused pricing model that gives clarity and certainty to cost. Alex shared on his wins and struggles as a practitioner over the years and the motivations that drove him and his other founders to create something truly different for complex disputes. On top of nailing the client side Alex has a passion for growing a great culture and we discussed what this meant for lawyers that joined their team.
https://www.aptumlegal.com.au/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-nicol-18514410/
Today on the show we sat down with the remarkable Michael Chesterman, Consultant of Helix Legal. Michael brings his decades of knowledge of the construction industry to the Helix team, and he's not even a lawyer! Michael is in fact an industry expert that is a huge part of why Helix can deliver such a client centric approach to their service. Michael shares on the parallels between the construction and legal industries, the disruption happening in both, and the way law firms can better service clients by deeply understanding their business.
Check out his bio below!
Having worked for the building industry regulator in Queensland for 22 years, Michael was the inaugural BSA Compliance Manager, responsible for investigating contractor’s compliance with the financial requirements and other licensing criteria.
In 2000, he undertook extensive research, policy and legislation development and consultation with industry stakeholders regarding the need to introduce legislation that provided contractors with an alternative to the courts to rapidly recover outstanding payments for work done.
In 2004, he was appointed the inaugural Adjudication Registrar under the Building and Construction Industry Payments Act 2004 (BCIPA), a position he held until March 2017.
Michael has demonstrated a record of fighting for improved payment outcomes for all parties who have carried out construction work or supplied related goods or services in the Queensland building and construction industry. However, in particular he has consistently worked to achieving security of payment for subcontractors.
Michael brings a depth of practical experience and industry knowledge, complementing the legal skills within Helix, ensuring we deliver the right solutions for clients, not just the legal answer.
https://helix.legal/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-chesterman/
This week we've gone back to the vault and brought out some great short clips from one of our most popular shows ever with the amazing Kate Cliff. Kate has a remarkable story about using meditation to overcome chronic pain and then turn it into how she helps people in the world.
https://www.beyondbillables.com/blog/kate-cliff-leaving-law-meditation-living-good-life
We also tackle the massive "should do I start a podcast?" question and give a rundown on why you might consider it as well as highlighting the top four aps we've started to use this year in the business!
Finally the show wraps up with the top four apps we have started to use this year that help us run a more efficient business servicing our clients.
On the show today we had the privilege of sitting down with Fionn Bowd, Founder of the recently launched Bowd Legal. Fionn has a great story of excelling in practice both in top firms and in-house, and share many great lessons on what she learned along the way.
Fionn has a true passion for empowering lawyers so that they can re-ignite their love for law and providing law firms with better solutions to their needs.
We spoke in detail about how we can empower partners to better service clients and ultimately build practices that they are proud of which don't result in the level of burnout that cripples many people. Having been to law school with Fionn it was fabulous to catch up and we certainly connected strongly in our joint belief that the profession can better serve all those that serve it, and that human centred solutions are critical to moving forward.
https://www.bowd.legal/
This week on the insight show I drop some truth bombs around what to expect from your marketing spend, relive some epic advice from our recent show with Fiona from Girl Friday IP, and do a quick review of the awesome book "Can't Hurt me".
Most firms struggle to understand exactly what they should be getting out of their marketing spend, so I tell it straight. From brand building to lead generation it's key to understand why you are spending your money and what you are going to get for it.
On the show today I had the privilege of interviewing Sarina Eggers-Stable, Founder of Business Kitz and entrepreneur extraordinaire. Sarina shared her professional story on how she has grown a number of businesses and all the lessons she's learned along the way. Sarina grew a business based on delivering a solution to client needs and is a great example of how anyone can take an idea and make it into a profitable business. Sarina is a Director of leading Australian business Business Kitz, Principal of Legal Kitz and Director of Lux Whitsundays, a luxury sailing business based in the Whitsundays, Queensland. Sarina was recently appointed as an Advisory Board Member for Flexi Flow, an educational training provider for schools and government departments. Sarina is known for her extensive commercial and business legal experience. Sarina previously held a senior role with one of Australia’s largest universities where she was responsible for negotiating the university's commercial contracts and arrangements. Sarina has worked as a Solicitor for Australia’s largest top-tier law firms, gaining experience in high-end national and international transactions and acting for Australia’s largest listed companies. Sarina offers excellent business acumen. One of Sarina's notable achievements was Sarina's role in the successful commercialisation of a multi-faceted human resource company’s intellectual property assets by the age of 21. Sarina was awarded a 'Bond University Dean Academic Scholarship' to study a Bachelor of Laws and a Bachelor of International Relations at Bond University. Bond University Dean Academic Scholarships are awarded on the basis of "outstanding academic results and other achievements”. Sarina graduated with a Bachelor of Laws at the age of 20. Sarina has been engaged in various community organisations and was appointed as the Executive Officer for the Red Cross International Humanitarian Law Committee from 2011 – 2016. Sarina has been recognised as ‘Australia Day’s Youth Citizen of the Year’ and also received an ‘Order of Australia Association Community Service Award’. Sarina is highly regarded by her peers for her strong work ethic, commercial acumen and ability to develop and maintain positive working relationships.
On the Insight show today Mike share's 5 of his biggest learnings from the last 12 months in business, we do a throwback to a great clip from a recent show with Anthony Curtin, and finish with a quick review of “The Obstacle is the Way” and “Ego is the Enemy” by Ryan Holiday.
This week on the show I had the epic privilege of being joined by the one and only Fiona Nguyen, founder of Girl Friday IP and all around awesome human. As a Patent Attorney and business owner Fiona has grown a great brand and business which was central to our discussion. Given our mutual love for branding we were able to do a deep dive into how lawyers of all kinds can grow great personal brands and great businesses whether in big teams or out on their own. Fiona has one of the very best social media presences of any Patent Attorney in the world (huge call but it's true) because she has made her brand all about herself, her skills and her unique perspective. As the self described “go to for all things intellectual property related” Fiona has been able to grow a personal brand and business on her own terms. In a world where there are few true creatives Fiona is a great example of tapping into what makes you unique and having the guts to build something great.
In her own words ”I believe in inspiring creativity to spark purposeful change in the communities where I work, live and play. Girl Friday IP is supporting creative thinkers by making intellectual property an accessible tool and an engaging human experience.”
This is certainly a high energy, high inspiration show and I'm very thankful for Fiona's time in being able to make it happen.
https://www.girlfridayip.com/
This week on the show we sat down with the brilliant Anthony Curtin of Merton Lawyers. Anthony is not only the co-founder of a growing commercial firm but also the founder of multiple other businesses from Christmas trees to mineral exploration companies! He has some outstanding insight into what it means to understand your clients business and has put in place process in his practice to help his lawyers develop the type of commercial skills everyone talks about.
Anthony has an education spanning Business and Law and a professional career incorporating legal, operational, finance, product & business development, marketing and technology roles. His expertise is at the intersection of corporate law, emerging businesses and high-growth companies. This is a unique commercial perspective he brings to legal practice.
We spoke about the lessons he's learned, the power of great mentorship, and the personal journey it takes to build something from scratch.
It's a great discussion and we really hope you enjoy it.
https://www.mertonlawyers.com.au/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/anthony-curtin-88b880b/?originalSubdomain=au
This week on the show I had the absolute privilege of interviewing Matthew Karakoulakis, founder of AMK Law in Melbourne. As well as being the founder of AMK, a proud indigenous man who serves his community and an outstanding lawyer, Matthew and I are Brazilian Jiu Jitsu brothers! We had a great chat about Matthew's journey in all facets of his life, his drive to help his community and how his journey in martial arts has made him a better lawyer.
Matthew shared about the ups and downs very honestly and I am sure many people will get a lot out of this interview. Personally I love his drive and the practical ways he goes about empowering Aboriginal business owners and trying to be an example for others. His learnings from his Jiu Jitsu journey are very similar to mine and I really love the way he has reflected on the ups and downs of BJJ and how that has helped in his career.
Before starting AMK Law, Matthew worked in major firms and organisations including Clayton Utz, HWL Ebsworth, and ASIC. As a result, he is very well-equipped to deal with matters of any size and complexity, working with a broad range of clients, from small and medium enterprises through to large Australian corporations, including Indigenous organisations and Government bodies.
https://amklaw.com.au/
This week on the bite sized Beyond Billables Insight:
- Mike goes back to the archive and pulls out a cracking quote from Janelle Kerrisk on using technology in legal businesses.
- We highlight one of our favourite podcasts, the Joe Rogan Experience, and a recent episode on the catastrophic war on drugs and the realities of addiction.
- Finally we cover Facebook ads and why your firm probably has no idea how and why they can work for you.
That's it! Have an awesome law life this week!
This week we're proud to launch our brand new Beyond Billables “insight” show.
Every fortnight we'll bring an upbeat 10 minute show to the lawyers of the world to give you inspiration to lead a better law life.
On the show today Mike highlights the growth in legal technology investment, does a review of Matthew Walkers “Why we sleep” (for all those sleep deprived lawyers out there!), and recaps a recent show with Sam Flynn of Josef on how to approach using different technological solutions in your practice.
We had great fun putting this new show together and hope it brings some inspiration to your law life!
www.beyondbillables.com
Today on the show we had the absolute privilege of sitting down with Angus Murray. Angus is a partner at law firm Irish Bentley Lawyers, Vice President of the Queensland Council of Civil Liberties, the Chair of Electronic Frontiers Australia’s Policy and Research Committee and Co-Founder of the Legal Forecast!
We spoke in depth about his journey in law, how he became a partner and what he has learned along the way. Angus is a leading voice on cyber security in Australia and we had a thoroughly enjoyable discussion around the development of privacy laws and what the future holds for online security and privacy.
As well as his considerable achievements in practice Angus was a Co-Founder and remains and active part of the Legal Forecast. The Legal Forecast is a not–for–profit run by early–career professionals who are passionate about disruptive thinking and access to justice. Starting out in Australia they now impact students and the profession around the world and it was fascinating to chat about why they started and the teams mission.
https://www.irishbentley.com.au/staff/angus-murray/
https://thelegalforecast.com/
This week on the show Mike sat down with Kim Wiegand, Director of Business Development and Marketing at McCullough Robertson lawyers in Brisbane. Kim has experience working in Australia and in the UK with some of the largest law firms in the world and in a variety of BD and Marketing roles. We had a fabulous in depth discussion about how lawyers and law firms can improve their BD, get their brand messaging right, and stand out from their competition. We also discussed how law firms can attract the best other professionals and how as a profession we can more positively promote the opportunities that exist for non-lawyers.
This is a great episode for anyone who wants to refocus their BD efforts, understand the differences between business development, brand and marketing, and ultimately standout as a trusted expert where it matters (with clients!).
http://www.mccullough.com.au/
On the show today we had the great pleasure of interviewing the amazing Dr George Beaton. George is the Founder of Beaton, the pre-eminent ratings and review consultancy for professionals around the world. George has had a long and distinguished career in academia as well earning MBBCh, MBA and PhD degrees. George is a senior fellow in the Law School at the University of Melbourne and taught at the Melbourne Business School for decades. With a long career in academia and business George brings incredible insight to our discussions which covered client service, value based pricing and the future of practice.
George is presently Chair of the College of Law’s new Masters of Legal Business which is welcoming it’s first students in February. This is a world first program designed from the ground up to equip professionals with the skills in business to spearhead great organisations. We discussed why this program is so important, what the College is trying to achieve, and what legal and non legal professionals can expect.
We covered everything from client experience to branding, valued based pricing to the role of technology. Enjoy the show!
Check out the details on the Masters of Legal Business - https://www.collaw.edu.au/news/2018/09/25/master-of-legal-business-degree
Beaton - https://www.beatonglobal.com/
George Beaton - https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgerbeaton/
On the first show of 2019 we sat down with Co-Founder of Josef and legal technology expert Sam Flynn! Josef is a legal technology business that was created to empower access to justice and help legal service providers build tools to better serve clients.
In their own words "With Josef’s automation platform, your organisation can create legal chatbots, streamline processes, eliminate repetitive tasks and access new revenue streams."
On the show we discussed Sam's journey, the businesses he's launched and the way technology can help bridge the access to justice gap. We dove into the present reality of AI in Law, the types of new solutions firms are using to solve clients problems and how platforms like Josef will help shape the future of legal services.
James Edwards is the founder of Edwards + Co Legal, a boutique commercial law firm in Sydney providing quality, value-added legal solutions for modern business. The firm specialises in corporate and commercial work for media and digital industry clients, from household names to emerging start ups.
The firm began in 2012, after James returned from 7 years working across Asia for one of the world’s largest media companies, and was founded on rethinking paradigms of the traditional large law firm approach, being agile, innovative, communicative and taking steps to truly understand client goals. Edwards + Co seeks to capitalise on James’ 20 years of experience in large law and in-house corporate environments, and trends in disruptive technologies and work-life balance, to help redefine the role of today's legal service providers.
Claudia Conley is the head of Talent Acquisition for Media Stable and manages their Melbourne office. She loves all things communications and has a passion for hearing great yarns and meeting diverse Subject Matter Experts. Media Stable’s main purpose is to pitch said SME’s and their content to the media, so Claudia’s finger is always on the pulse of the latest breaks and happenings in the news cycle.
We love to talk new law models on the BB podcast and this week we sat down with the Founder of another great Australian success story. Legally Yours is a lawyer matching platform that help connect clients with connect with lawyers on a fixed fee basis. It's another innovative model that seeks to increase access to legal services and also bring transparency to the way we all engage with legal services.
Most importantly Legally Yours offer another flexible platform for lawyers to work from in a far more flexible and nimble way. We had a great chat with Karen about her journey with Legally Yours, the future of distributed lawyer models and how new ways of delivering legal services is freeing up lawyers to work in a more flexible way and also be in control of their work flow.
Karen also brings an amazing career story to the table covering law, recruitment and now running a business like Legally Yours. She has a very unique skill-stack that she has developed and we talk a lot on the show about how this has helped her in her career to date.
We also do a deep dive into understanding what the future of practice might look like and also what the skill set of the future might look like for legal professionals.
Links:
https://www.legallyyours.com.au/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/karen-finch-1b1568124/
A litigation firm with a value pricing model that was created to be a great place to work? They do exist and prosper and this week it was our great pleasure to interview Nigel Evans, Co-Founder of Aptum Legal one of Australia's leading firms that have moved beyond the billables model.
Nigel started Aptum with his fellow co-founders at the start of 2018 and has already had tremendous success growing the practice. The firm are experts in a range of litigation with a particular strength in Insolvency, Bankruptcy, Tax and Corporate disputes. We had a very in depth discussion around value pricing, scoping and different approaches to billing which Aptum Legal has embraced wholeheartedly.
In their own words:
"What we know to be certain is the traditional way of providing legal services is failing. In commercial litigation in particular, it is failing to provide high-quality service that delivers commercial outcomes. The traditional way rewards inefficiency, stifles creativity and innovation, focusses on process over outcomes and alienates even the most sophisticated clients."
Nigel came to law having already had a professional background and we discussed how he managed to juggle a young family with a big career pivot and how his prior experience has helped him while in practice and at the bar.
Nigel has worked for large international firms, as a Barrister and now running his own practice so has a great depth of understanding to how law firms can be run effectively. If you're interested in different fee models, how contentious practices can approach value pricing, and how to grow a firm that lives its values then this is a great episode for you.
https://www.aptumlegal.com.au/
This week we had the chance to sit down and speak with a marketing whiz and wordsmith in Anita Siek. Ex lawyer and founder of Wordfetti, a digital marketing and copy writing business for businesses of all shapes and sizes including law firms.
One of the biggest issues within the legal industry is the tendency to make communication and their messaging too specialised and legalistic. In this interview we talk about why this is the case, how to improve your copy and messaging so you are hitting the market and engaging with your audience effectively.
Anita has a magic way with words and explains just why its so important to get your copy and messaging right across the board from your website to social media efforts to how you engage with clients. Anita is always thinking about what the customer experience will be and how to best to engage them and deliver content in a simplified and easily digestible way.
Enjoy the episode and stay tuned for event news next year where we hope to have Anita participating again with her work shops.
If there was ever a guest that shows us how to make the whole work and life thing work for you and not against you it's Emma Heuston. Lawyer, practice leader, author and speaker Emma is a leading figure in our industry providing crucial information about how to work flexibly and freely in the legal industry.
Emma is a the author of 'The Tracksuit Economy, How to work Effectively and Productively from Home'. This is an amazing book that provides a practical and easy to digest guide on how to work remotely and make it work for you and your employer. Having made the sea-change herself we were very fortunate to sit down with Emma and talk about her approach to work and how she makes it work.
Emma is a successful lawyer and currently Practice Leader at Legal Vision in Sydney. At the same time she enjoys a remote working arrangement that gives her the flexibility and freedom that we would all love. So how does she make it work and how can it work for you?
In this episode we talk with Emma about her personal and career journey in the law. We also talk about the amazing array of new law and working models available to lawyers but that we aren't seeing enough of.
Don't forget to get your copy of The Tracksuit Economy at the link below.
Links:
https://www.thetracksuiteconomy.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/eheuston/
https://legalvision.com.au/meet-our-team/emma-heuston/
This week we had the pleasure of sitting down to speak with two ladies who are making a splash in the criminal law space with their new firm Kingston Fox. Having spent over a decade with with the CDPP Erin Hollie and Alexandra Sarmed took the plunge and started their own firm. As two of the most seasoned criminal practitioners in the state this is a great story of finding your feet and setting up your own practice.
We are sure many lawyers will relate to this journey and we dive into how Erin and Alexandra made the jump, how they have designed their firm, how they have managed the challenges and also their own insights into how to maintain a long career in the profession.
We also speak with Alexandra and Erin about the difficulty of working in the criminal law, the emotional toll it takes on clients and lawyers alike and how to manage this dynamic. For anyone wanting an insight into the ups and downs of criminal practice this is an episode not to be missed.
Thanks to Erin and Alexandra for speaking with us also about their novel approach to their business model and marketing efforts which is no easy task in the criminal law space.
Our timing for this week's show couldn't be better with the launch of our >More than Marketing Show. Why? Because this week we speak with Zohar Fisher who is a global authority on legal marketing and business development strategy as the Founder of Robus Consulting, Israel's leading agency. The reason we had Zohar on the show is he works in the most saturated legal market on the planet so the question of how to differentiate your firm is one he has dealt with as a matter of course. With a population of 8.5 million there are approximately 70,000 lawyers in Israel so the question of how to stand out is one we had to speak with Zohar about.
He is one of the leading veteran strategy consultants in the field of legal marketing in the Israeli legal market, and has experience and well know reputation of more than a decade in the legal business development field. Zohar has also stepped into the distributed lawyer market with LawFlex and is a legal industry entrepreneur par excellance.
In this show we cover a broad arrange of topics including:
- The global legal market and what's happening big picture wise;
- The past present and future of legal marketing and business development strategies;
- The Israeli legal market and why so many lawyers and firms;
- The ins and outs of marketing and business development in legal;
- The future of distributed lawyer platforms like LawFlex;
- What firms can do differently to stand out; and
- What holds firms back from trying new things.
Links:
https://robus.co.il/en/homepage/
https://www.lawflex.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/zoharfisher/
The area of family law is one of the most difficult in the profession. Not only is it a hugely human-centric area requiring lots of empathy and tact but it's also constrained but a court system under huge strain not to mention outdated business models when it comes to practice and client engagement.
So this week we had the chance to sit down with a family lawyer who is approaching things differently. Talya Faigenbaum is the Principal at Faigenbaum Family Lawyers based in Melbourne.
Innovation in the family law space is not easy to come by and lawyers in many cases have their hands tied by a process and system that can often offer little flexibility and does not take into account to huge human element in these types of matters.
So in this episode we sat down with Talya to discuss how a different and more transparent approach can deliver better results for clients and how she does this. We also cover:
- Tayla's personal career journey and how she landed in family law;
- The entrepreneurial journey and professional challenges she faces in practising in such a human centric area that touches people at their most vulnerable;
- Starting your own firm;
- Innovation and reform in the family law space;
- How family law practitioners can better engage with clients;
- Talya's and her firms approach to complex family law matters and what sets them apart; and
- How she finds balance in her personal and professional life working in an emotionally challenging practice.
Links:
http://www.faigenbaumlaw.com.au/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/talyafaigenbaum/
This week we were thrilled to have Janelle Kerrisk return to the Beyond Billables Podcast. Janelle is a founder of Helix Legal and LawLancer, two legal services businesses making big waves in the industry. Janelle has a tremendous story of having the confidence to take the leap and has made a great success of everything she has put her mind to.
During the show we had the chance to discuss both businesses and the different journey that they were both on.LawLancer gives law firms access to a scalable and flexible workforce through an online marketplace to alleviate resources and meet client demands, while providing law students with quality paid opportunities to gain real world experience. We chatted about how this idea came about, how democratising access to work would help the entire profession, and Janelle's view on the future of distributed work.
Finally, having now clocked up two years with Helix Legal it was a great chance to go into detail on how Janelle has grown the firm, the challenges during this time and how she has been able to overcome them.
On this episode we discussed:
New legal services platforms
The future of work
Democratising access to legal work
Empowering regional practices
Overcoming obstacles as a business owner
Scaling your practice
Links
LawLancer - http://www.lawlancer.legal/
Helix Legal - http://www.helix.legal/
Innovation is happening all around us in the industry at the moment and this week we take a dive into the unexpected and much maligned area of personal injury practice.
This week we speak with Nick Mann who after a long stint working with one of the country's top personal injury firms stepped out to create a firm with very different business model, approach to marketing and focus on clients who are often in terrible life circumstances. Bringing together a more empathetic approach together with a more accessible process for their clients underpinned by great technology means that Nick and Polaris Lawyers have entirely re-thought the standard approach to their industry.
In this episode we also discussed:
- Nick's career journey;
- The ins and outs of personal injury and compensation law;
- How Polaris Lawyers are doing things differently;
- How to build a flexible and healthy workplace;
- Legal marketing at the retail level and how to get cut through; and
- How to understand your clients and where they see most value in your services.
Links:
Polaris Lawyers - https://polarislawyers.com.au/
Nick Mann - https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicholas-mann-b064525b/
In the Press - https://www.lawyersweekly.com.au/newlaw/20890-former-slaters-head-opens-new-firm
The legal technology scene continues to grow from strength to strength in Australia and we love showcasing the amazing tech driven businesses changing the legal industry. So this week we had the chance to sit down with David Lipworth and Adam Long from Smarter Drafter about their journey in legal tech.
We discuss David's journey from Big Law to start-up founder and Adam's jump into the legal industry where fresh ideas and new approaches are so needed.
Smarter Drafter creates advanced legal documents in minutes and aims to transform the document delivery process in legal which is big goal but these guys are very much on track to doing just that.
We also discuss:
- The future of law firm business models and service delivery;
- Where is legal tech really from an “AI” perspective;
- What firms should be doing to drive efficiency and move to value based models;
- The entrepreneurial journey; and
- The interesting new skill sets that will be required of lawyers working in legal tech.
Links:
Smarter Drafter
LinkedIn
Our latest guest on Beyond Billables originally came from a profession that is a bit left-field: sports journalism. Now, Michael Morrissey is managing director at Morrissey Law and Advisory, a law firm that specialises in the construction and infrastructure industries.
Michael’s main goals in his firm is to both be accountable (hence why he named the firm after himself) and to make his clients feel valuable. “If I’m not helping people sleep easier at night...then I’m not doing the job I should be doing,” he says.
This latest episode is a great listen for anyone interested in starting their own law firm. Give it a listen to gain access to an insider’s views on some of the tougher issues facing entrepreneurial lawyers today.
We also discuss:
- How the shifting media landscape in Australia led Michael to become an attorney
- Why Michael doesn’t worry too much about failure
- What it means to be a “client-centric” firm
- How to deal with startups and other clients that might not understand the law process
- The challenging parts of setting up your own firm
- How to effectively hire junior lawyers
- Why Michael regularly asks his clients to criticise his firm
- The importance of emotional intelligence in employees
Links:
Morrissey Law and Advisory
Michael Morrissey - LinkedIn
It wouldn’t be overstating it to say that Michele DeStefano is a visionary in the legal industry. As a highly respected lawyer, academic, author, speaker, marketer and entrepreneur, Michelle is pioneering new ways of thinking about how we practice law and what the future of the industry looks like.
One of the many feathers in Michele’s cap is as founder of Law Without Walls, a virtual global collaborative group of some 1,500 change agents who are dedicated to changing how lawyers and business professionals partner to solve problems.
Michelle’s insights are marvelous for both practicing lawyers and students or younger members of the profession who are looking to understand where the future of the industry is headed.
Here’s what we delve into in this episode:
- The biggest pitfalls of the lawyer’s mindset
- Why lawyers will need a range of skills beyond legal expertise
- The impetus behind Law Without Walls
- Why law is essentially a creative practice
- The difference between problem solving and problem finding
- The change in focus to how lawyers work not what they do
- Why lawyers need to find how to add value
- Why lawyers’ careers won’t be as straightforward
- C.O.S.T skills explained
- The role of T.N.T. innovation – tiny noticeable things
- The impact of marketing on the profession
- Why we need to get rid of the word pitch
- Why lawyers should consider marketing as a career
- Changing the way lawyers and clients collaborate together
Links:
Law Without Walls
Michele DeStefano - LinkedIn
Legal Upheaval - book
Today on Beyond Billables, we break down one of the most common career pivots for lawyers: a move into the banking sector.
Here to illustrate and serve as an example is a solicitor, hedge fund sales trader and startup founder, Travis Leon. Travis worked at Linklaters in 2008 before choosing a voluntary redundancy in the recession, he then worked as a sales trader in an investment bank and is now co-founder and executive director of XRef.
In our conversation, we chatted about many things but really focused on Travis’ career transitions, first from the law to Merrill Lynch and then to his stab at entrepreneurialism. Travis talks about the importance of ‘cutting your teeth’ in the right place, the crazy expectations for some junior associates and how doing his own thing has been so professionally rewarding.
Listen to the full episode to hear all this, plus things like:
- What drew Travis into the law in the first place
- How to deal with being overwhelmed
- Why the keenest and brightest lawyers often struggle the most
- The realities of life in corporate life
- The differences between legal practice and investment banking
- Travis’s experience working for Merrill Lynch
- The issue of transferable skills
- What it’s like to be in the world of entrepreneurialism
- The continued value of ‘soft’ legal skills
Links:
XRef
If anyone has got their hands on the crystal ball and can see what the industry is facing is our guest on this episode of Beyond Billables – Stevie Ghiassi. Technology change is coming thick and fast, and the law establishment is not immune, creating both exciting and scary times ahead for the law industry.
Stevie Ghiassi is CEO of Legaler, a secure online communication and collaboration tool for lawyers, CEO of Legaler Aid, a blockchain-based legal aid service that promotes access to justice, as well as President of the Australian Legal Technology Association and founder of Blockchain for Law.
To call Stevie a legal tech guru would not be hyperbole, and his knowledge and experience of that space where the law meets technology is immense – and his insights are a real eye-opener for anyone working in and around the law. If you’re interested in where the future of legal practice, and lawyers in general, is headed, then you won’t want to miss this episode.
Here’s what we’ll be getting our heads around in this episode:
- Stevie’s journey from pro-tennis player to legal technology specialist
- The birth and development of Legaler
- How Legaler works as a tool for lawyers
- Fundamental changes bringing lawyers and clients closer together
- The technology factors changing legal practice
- The inspiration and passion behind Legaler Aid
- How Legaler Aid works – making it easier to do pro bono work
- Distributed ledger and blockchain technology explained
- The technological threats to the legal industry
- The rise of smart contracts
- A look into the crystal ball – the future of law and lawyers
- Tips for up-and-coming lawyers
Links:
Legaler
Blockchain for Law
Australian Legal Technology Association
Beyond Billables
Book – Soft Skills for the Effective Lawyer by Randal Kiser
It’s true that the modern workplace is changing, with remote working and more liberal maternity and paternity leave policies dramatically shifting how we view our daily responsibilities as an employee. And law, of course, is no exception to this change.
Catherine Brooks is Principal at Moores law firm in Melbourne. She is also author of Let’s make it work, baby!, a book that looks at options around flexible work arrangements, control and autonomy over day-to-day schedules for new mothers and fathers.
On the latest episode of Beyond Billables, Catherine and I had a great a talk about this rapidly shifting professional landscape, and how any employee can make sure that they’re receiving the rights they’re entitled to.
We also cover:
- The definition of discrimination, and how to handle it
- How to refine your work flexibility request to make sure it’s accepted
- Why law firms sometimes lag behind when it comes to flexible work
- Why there’s an economic incentive for employers to help new mothers
- How to make sure you’re not being taken advantage of by employers
- The importance of realistic productivity for new parents
- How changing social norms have revolutionised the workplace
- What you need to do to make sure you’re being a responsible employee while on leave
Links:
Catherine Brooks - LinkedIn
Catherine Brooks - Website
Catherine Brooks - Twitter
Let's Make it Work, Baby! - Book
On today’s episode of Beyond Billables, we spoke to someone who is tackling the future of legal practice with the elegant touch of a designer. Meera Sivanathan is the co-founder and head legal designer at Dot. Prior to Dot. Meera worked as a lawyer for a leading international law firm in Sydney. She has extensive experience providing both legal and strategic advice relating to M&A, funds management, and private equity & venture capital.
In our conversation with Meera, we talked all about her work as a legal designer and how her team is developing innovative, human-centric and legally sound solutions for organisations, markets, and society. We traced her career origin story from Australia to Finland, talked about primary industry problems, improving end-user experiences, empathy, empowerment and touched on her advice for future lawyers.
Listen to the full episode to hear all of the above, plus things like...
- The mindset of Nordic design
- The transformational power of empathy
- Why fast, low-cost testing is often the way to go
- The danger in linear thinking
- The definition of legal design
- Examples of how legal design is being used
- How to bring about different divisions within a law firm
- A breakdown of the legal design process
- The difference of getting a simple legal document today Vs. past
- How legal design is empowering people
- What lawyers can do to prepare for the future
- Why the old student/teacher relationship of the attorney/client needs to change
- How good design is often simple design
- Why competing on expertise along isn’t enough anymore
- Why there is no such thing as a ‘bad’ idea
Links:
Linkedin
Legal Design
Dot. - resources
Many lawyers feel as if they don’t have enough free time or space for their own life apart from work. Today’s episode of Beyond Billables deals largely with what to do with the time you spend outside of work (as limited as that time may be). Our guest for this episode is Melissa Scott - attorney, big picture thinker, ex-bodybuilder, and legal counselor at Megaport.
Melissa has a lot of insight to share not only in terms of her journey as a lawyer that went in-house, but also in how to have a life outside of work. We dug deep into her health and fitness odyssey, talked about creative outlets, having fun, and ultimately what constitutes a good and balanced life.
Listen to the full episode to all this, plus things like.
- Melissa’s journey out of the billable hour paradigm
- The inside scoop on Megaport
- A day in the life of an in-house attorney
- Melissa’s experience as a bodybuilder
- The value of being a self-learner
- How Melissa has faced technical topics
- Tech startup vs law firm pros and cons
- The danger in extreme personalities
- Why you must find a creative outlet
- Melissa’s advice to her younger self
Links:
Melissa Scott - Linkedin
ACC Australia
Megaport
On Today’s episode of Beyond Billables, we had the pleasure of picking the brain of a lawyer on the front lines of legal evolution. Thomas Kaldor is the head of LegalVision’s transformation team, whose career credits also include working as an associate to Justice Kiefel (now Chief Justice) at the High Court of Australia and as a solicitor at Allens, a well-known corporate law firm.
In our conversation with Thomas, we traced his career trajectory, discussed his decision to leave his big law job and what it’s been like in a more tech-focused company. This is a great episode for people who are looking to make lateral moves or find new ways of applying their skills without leaving the law entirely.
Listen to the full episode to all this, plus things like.
- How Thomas left a big law firm and joined LegalVision
- What it’s like working with ‘high stature’ people
- Why Thomas is concerned about an over-reliance on tech solutions
- Legal Visions fee setup and business model
- Thomas’s take on legal marketing
- The problem with being hung up on titles and credentials
- The pitfalls of the ‘distributed lawyer’ model
- Flexible work arrangements, professional development, and perks
- How Thomas applies design thinking
Links:
Thomas Kaldor - Linkedin
Legal Vision
Beyond Law
Are you a current or prospective lawyer wondering what an uncertain future might hold in terms of career options? If so, you’ll not want to miss today’s episode of Beyond Billables. Today we’re talking to Peter Connor a ‘Global Change Agent’ with 25+ years of legal, compliance and business experience. In the course of his polished career, Peter has developed a knack for challenging the status quo and finding a way to reimagine better solutions.
In our conversation, we chatted about many things but really honed in on the skills & strategy a lawyer is going to need to succeed as the law changes. We dug into the specifics of what skills should be focused on, how going in-house can be a great stepping stone to something else and ultimately, how law firms need to evolve.
Listen to the full episode to hear things like:
- The reasons people want to work in-house
- Alternatively Legal - what it is and how it works
- Why Peter became a lawyer
- How to avoid the ‘traditional mindset trap’
- The idea of the T-shaped Lawyer
- How Peter used design thinking to improve compliance training
- Things lawyers should drill down on
- The challenges of stepping into an in-house role
- The ‘killer skill’ according to Peter
- What changes are most needed from law firms
Links:
Peter Connor - Linkedin
Alternatively Legal
T-Shaped lawyer
Technology is disrupting nearly every industry, and law is no exception. As AI, blockchain technology and smart contracts become everyday parlance in the industry, students in law school will have to adequately adapt to become competitive once they graduate.
At the University of Technology Sydney, Faculty of Law, this reality has already led to a reworking of how they teach their students. In the latest episode of Beyond Billables, UTS lecturers stopped by to explain how their law program has been reflecting the rapid change we are experiencing when it comes to technology. Maxine Evers and Dr Philippa Ryan, two senior lecturers at UTS Faculty of Law, had a lot of insightful things to say about how law students should (and already are) preparing themselves for something of a technological revolution in their industry.
In this episode, we cover:
- Why you should know how to intelligently analyse data
- How to protect against the uncertainty that comes with swiftly changing technology
- The increasing usefulness of in-house law teams
- How team collaboration will become more prevalent in law
- Why it’s a good idea for law students to pursue a dual degree in engineering, math or other STEM subjects
- How law will experience a ‘reverse ageism’ in the coming years
- Why the fundamentals of law still haven’t changed
- How law could become more of a ‘service industry’
Links:
Maxine Evers - LinkedIn
Dr Philippa Ryan - LinkedIn
UTS Faculty of Law
Today’s guest on Beyond Billables is a professional with an exciting hybrid skill set similar to what we often advocate on the podcast. Laura Cowan is a New York-based entrepreneur who is a qualified public accountant and lawyer, a rare CPA-JD combo. Her career spans the fields of investment banking, accounting, estate law and, of course, opening her own business.
In our conversation, we chatted about many things - big career transitions, the benefits of being good with numbers, gaps that exist in legal staffing and organizational structures, the pros and cons of entrepreneurship, and how to face your fears. We also touched on the practical elements of Laura’s business, her marketing efforts, the things she didn’t expect and the practical challenges that came up and what she did about them.
Listen to the full episode to hear things like:
- Estate planning in a US context
- Laura’s transition from investment banking to law
- The benefits of business coaching
- How Laura has attracted clients
- The high cost over associate turnover (and what to do about it)
- The ‘elephant in the room’ of attorney staffing
- Laura’s use of technology in her practice
- Dealing with bumps in the road
- Laura’s advice to younger professionals
Links:
Laura Cowan - Linkedin
Laura Cowan - website
Technology, with all its faults, has undeniably improved the human experience. It’s easier for us to receive medical care, read a book or talk to loved ones. But have you ever thought about how it could make it easier to work with a lawyer?
Patrick Brown is a coder and lawyer who has created a platform called Codepact that generates customised legal documents that are intuitive and accessible for the average person. Rather than wade through all of the legal jargon, those using Codepact will be presented with a simplified interface that provides definitions for confusing topics and easily walks the user throughout the process.
On the latest episode of the Beyond Billables podcast, Patrick explained how this is the way of the future. In the not too distant future, he said, most lawyers will be using some form of software to streamline their work.
If this sounds interesting, be sure to listen to the full episode. We also chat about:
- How Patrick taught himself how to code
- Why most lawyers are perfectly capable of learning how to code themselves
- How technology will help increase collaboration in law
- How automated contracts take out excess boilerplate and helps clients understand what’s going on
- The intricacies of branch version control and how it can make your life easier
- Why new technology makes it easier for lawyers to skip drudgery and focus on what they really care about
- How lawyers can learn from coders when it comes to innovation and change
- Why you should start your own law firm — and why it’s easier than ever
Links:
Patrick Brown’s Website
Codepact
Codepack Training
The law is changing fast and those who don’t change with it are in danger of being left behind. One person who knows this all too well is today’s guest on Beyond Billables, Mark Lazarus. Mark’s career has zig-zagged back and forth between Australia and the UK, all the while making space for a barrister role along with various stints with Monster Energy Drink and weathering the GFC in the process.
After working for one of the hottest global energy drink brands on the planet, Mark has now taken some of that "energy" from Monster and put it into building his own practice working with Startups, SME's, FMCG's and creatives in the sports, music, entertainment, and fashion industries. Mark’s got some very progressive ideas about legal marketing, the business of law, and how lawyers can embrace the future. Speaking with him was an absolute pleasure.
Listen to the full episode to hear things like:
- Mark’s mindset advice for young lawyers
- Revivifying efforts at Lazarus Legal
- The importance of using a great CRM
- The keys to Lazarus Legal’s marketing approach
- The acronym ‘SEFO’, Lazarus Legal’s special sauce
- The best compliments Mark ever received
- Why fixed fee agreements can often be misleading
- Why Mark became a barrister (and why it ultimately wasn’t for him)
- Why the goals you set always end up changing
- The effect of the GFC on Mark’s career
- Why Mark considers himself a ‘glorified gardner’
Links:
E: mark@lazaruslegal.com.au
Lazarus Legal
On today’s episode of Beyond Billables, we’re speaking with Alexis lamb, a self-described ‘recovering lawyer’, remote worker, and veteran of big law firms in New York and Hong Kong. As someone who works from her laptop (and has pivoted into recruiting), Alexis is another shining example of a person who’s made a legal background work for them.
In our conversation, we spoke to Alexis about her motivations to get into law, her experiences in big law firms, how the recession affected her, location independence, how to find your sweet spot and a whole slew of other things. Alexis is bright, quick with the funny one-liner and keen to share her learnings with others, this episode isn’t to be missed!
Listen to the full show to hear all of the above, plus things like...
- How the ‘no pants life’ blog was born
- How technology is helping people achieve flexibility
- How the recession impacted Alexis
- Working from home vs digital nomading
- Why Alexis became a lawyer
- The problem with how many big firms treat associates
- The transition from working in New York to Hong Kong
- How Alexis has dealt with big setbacks in life
- Why risk tolerance tends to change with age
- The new mobility of human capital
- The challenge in doing something without precedent
- Alexis’ advice to her younger self
Links:
No Pants Life
Medium
On today’s episode of Beyond Billables, we conducted a case study of sorts. The goal was to review the practices of an innovative company who’ve have taken a large chunk of business out of the employment law marketplace and see what could be learned. Guiding us through this process was Michael Morris head of talent at Employsure.
Michael told us a bit about his story and ultimately how he ended up at the company that is ‘disrupting workplace relations’ across New Zealand and Australia. He talked about hiring practices, values, models, growth, flexibility, what kind of people Employsure looks for and offered advice to future lawyers. This conversation isn’t to be missed.
Listen to the full episode to hear all of the above, plus things like...
- What Employsure is and what makes their approach different
- Michael’s career trajectory and story
- The’ insanity’ of current legal education
- Roles for lawyers within the Employsure model
- The hiring challenges Michael has faced
- What Employsure looks for in candidates
- Why people are the critical element in any service business
- What makes a great work culture
- Flexible work arrangements - the need for them, and Employsure’s offering
- The evolution of legal tech innovation
- The ‘good’ growth problem that Michael has
Links:
Employsure
Michael - Linkedin
Jess Harvie has made an incredible journey in her life, from working as a corporate lawyer in Sydney, to joining a flower delivery startup, to starting a career in tech. As Diversity & Inclusion Manager at Justworks, a tech company in New York City that designs human resources solutions for small to medium-sized businesses. Jess’ work finds her helping develop human resources programs for businesses, promote diversity in her company and make real, genuine relationships with clients.
On today’s episode of Beyond Billables, Jess tells us how her skills learned as a lawyer were invaluable as she made the leap to a new career path. She describes how quitting her law gig with no jobs lined up gave her the motivation she needed to get serious about finding a career path that was both challenging and emotionally rewarding. If you’re ever been curious about how people make the transition out of law, you’ll love this show.
Listen to the full episode to hear things like:
- How law culture can stifle creativity
- Why Jess had to learn to sound “American” when selling herself to potential employers
- How having a law background opened up opportunities in Jess’ newest job
- Why it’s important to become comfortable with criticism
- The importance of recognising your true skills
- How the tough nature of law can keep you from realising your value
- How leaving your city (or country) can change your perspective
- Why it’s never too late to change your career
Links:
Jessica Harvie - LinkedIn
Justworks
If you don’t love what you do and are struggling to figure out your next step, today’s guest on Beyond Billables may be exactly the right person to listen to. John Poulson is a seasoned attorney, an ex-managing partner and is currently the principal of People Passion Performance. He has deep, hands-on experience in creating and developing workplaces where people have a shared vision and purpose, are fully motivated, engaged and empowered.
In our conversation, we talked about how to create the kind of cultures and workplace structures that make people happy and productive. We also agreed on a call to action of sorts for those who are unhappy in the law profession: find something else. John’s energy and philosophy are infectious - this conversation isn’t to be missed.
Listen to the full episode to hear all of the above, plus all of this too:
- How to build mentally healthy workplaces
- The key to career longevity
- The value of building a non-hierarchical office
- Why you should prioritise people before clients
- What most professional service firms get wrong
- John’s advice to unhappy lawyers
- The difficulty of instilling change in institutional law firms
- Why firms need to refocus on people in the age of automation and AI
- What to do about high attrition rates
- How John dealt with pressure and intensity during his career
- How the expectations of the current generation of lawyers are playing out
- Ways in which technology is making solicitors’ jobs more difficult
Links:
People Passion Performance
Masterchef
Do you feel unhappy in your current role but unsure if the situation is fixable or not? This week’s guest on Beyond Billables has been in exactly that same situation and shares her insights on how to navigate uncertain waters. Jessica Kinny is an ex-Dentons solicitor turned founder and principle of Kinny Legal.
Jessica works with start-ups, high net worth individuals, SMEs, ASX-listed companies and not-for-profit organisations. She’s an experienced commercial litigator and business lawyer, and a recognised aged care and retirement law specialist.
In our chat, we talk about Jessica’s journey in the law, how she got to a place where she knew change was needed and how she approached the uncertainty of the unknown. Jessica’s very sharp and has a lot of wisdom to share, despite still being relatively early in her career - this one’s not to be missed.
Listen to the full episode to hear all of the above, plus things like:
- The genesis of Kinny Legal
- The biggest challenge Jessica’s faced as an entrepreneur
- The power of delegation
- How Jessica’s entrepreneurial path has given her more freedom
- How Jessica realised she didn’t want to be a partner
- How to face stepping into the unknown
- What prompted Jessica to start her own firm
- The ways in which new law firms are approaching attorney-client relationships
- The ways in which generational and technological tides are changing legal practice
- Kinny Legal’s approach to marketing
- Jessica’s go to exercise/de-stressing method
Links:
Website
Facebook
LinkedIn
Kinny Legal
Products
Explanation of what our products are: https://www.kinnylegal.com/about-our-online-products/
Interested in the revolutionary potential of artificial intelligence when applied to legal practice? Want to know how you can position yourself for the future? Today’s episode of Beyond Billables hits on both of these topics with the help of Zegal CEO, Daniel Walker. Daniel leads an incredibly talented group that makes up one of the fastest growing legal tech companies in the Asia Pacific region, as well as Europe.
As someone on the frontlines of technological disruption in the legal industry, we picked Daniel’s brain on issues like AI, machine learning, changing business dynamics and law firm structures, and the types of culture that will support lawyers of the future. Daniel is a sharp guy and well worthy of a listen.
Listen to the full episode to hear all of the above, plus things like:
- Daniel’s story of starting out in the law
- What Zegal does and why they have such a big team
- The challenge of pivoting into a new space
- Why Daniel left private practice
- Daniel’s advice for up-and-coming lawyers
- The work culture that Zegal is striving to build
- The state of AI in terms of the law
- How to make the legal tech space more attractive to top talent
- Why Zegal has rebranded three times
- The challenge in balancing the number of technologists and lawyers
- Why there will always be a huge requirement for legal knowledge
- The skills most highly valued in legal tech
- How Daniel unwinds and fights off stress
- The problem with the ‘get it done yesterday’ culture
- The value in unsexy or less-sexy businesses
Links:
Zegal
In this week’s episode of Beyond Billables, we’re speaking with someone on the absolute frontline of changing legal industry dynamics. Timothy Corcoran is a keynote speaker, consultant, author and legal commentator. With deep experience spanning two decades as a corporate executive, he guides law firm and law department leaders through the profitable disruption of outdated business models.
In our conversation with Tim, we dive deep into everything he’s learned over his career in the law. We highlight some of the most important points about economic models, and the responsibility of legal management. We also offer advice to young lawyers and set the stage for future legal practice. Tim is full of wisdom and is well worth listening to!
Listen to the full episode to hear all of the above, plus things like:
- What the leaders of law firms need to recognise more often
- Tim’s background and work in the legal industry
- Why hiring for skill and not a short-term need is a good approach
- How Tim helps firms avoid regimented thinking
- Shifting economic models and why they scare some lawyers
- How many law firms have disincentives for collaboration (and the cost therein)
- The differences between US and Australian legal markets
- How technology is the way to implement change, not the change itself
- The often forgotten reason why law firms actually exist
- What Tim sees coming next on the commodification front
- The greatest resistance points to change in the legal sector
- The ‘work hoarding’ problem
- How moving from reactive to proactive is the future
- What excites Tim most about the future of legal work
Links:
Personal site
For anyone wavering on what to do after law school, know that your options may not be as limited as they seem. Today’s episode of Beyond Billables is a brilliant case study to that end. On the show, we speak with Kate Allman, an experienced multimedia journalist, travel writer and social media expert.
A 2015 graduate from UNSW with a double degree in journalism and law, Kate has also completed TV and radio presenting courses at the Australian Film Television and Radio School in 2017. She’s someone uniquely positioned between the law, media and fast-changing technology.
In our conversation, we really keyed in on why you don’t need to follow the herd to be successful. We traced Kate’s trajectory out of university, the challenges she’s faced and the shifting terrain of the legal industry as a whole.
Listen to the full episode to hear all of the above, plus things like:
- How Kate combined divergent interests into a stable job
- The benefits of being selectively stubborn
- Kate’s top book recommendation
- The pros and cons of double degrees
- How Kate jump-started her career while still at university
- The keys to differentiating yourself in increasingly noisy online spaces
- How to improve your skills as a writer and find your authentic voice
- Why Kate spent the night in a prison in Rio De Janeiro
- The biggest issues facing the legal profession right now
- How legal industry disruption has finally started
- How to overcome procrastination
- Life hacks road tested by Kate
Links:
LinkedIn
Law Society of NSW
Twitter
Today, we’re highlighting yet another innovative, new legal startup that’s paving the way for a smart and more flexible future. On this episode of Beyond Billables, we talk with Connor James and Anne Wardell – the brain trust of new law firm, Compliance Quarter.
Connor is a solicitor with extensive in-house legal and management experience. He’s the principal of Compliance Quarter (and Law Quarter), and is managing director of Permitz Group.
Anne is also a solicitor at Law Quarter and regulatory specialist at Compliance Quarter, as well as being a teaching adjunct and casual academic at UTS Law Faculty.
Between the two of them, there’s an incredible amount of legal expertise, life experience and business acumen to be learned from. Our conversation traced both of their paths to Compliance Quarter, dug into their respective philosophies on legal practice, got their takes on where the industry is headed and detailed what makes Compliance Quarter different.
Listen to the full episode to hear all of the above, plus…
- The tangible value of technical skills for lawyers
- How Compliance Quarter is aiming to reduce client costs
- How to use technology in a professional services environment
- Anne’s advice for those at a career crossroads
- Why telling people directly what you think is a good and a bad thing
- The danger in not thinking clearly about your motivation for a law degree
- The pros and pros of distributed teams
- What James looks for in prospective employees
- Where the legal industry is going in the future
- How Google home has been trained to answer basic legal questions
Links:
Connor – LinkedIn
Anne – LinkedIn
Anne – Twitter
Compliance Quarter
Faculty of Law – UTS
Do you feel stuck, disillusioned or otherwise uninspired in your current position? The good news is that in today’s legal landscape, there are more ways than ever to approach a career and find something that suits you better. In the latest chapter of Beyond Billables’ quest to find people who’ve successfully transitioned careers we spoke to Melissa Lyon.
Melissa is a solicitor-turned business development consultant and associate principal at NewLaw firm Hive Legal. Melissa has weathered a few storms in her legal career and has ultimately maneuvered herself into a sweet spot. She currently focuses her energy on clients’ needs, including delivering the best outcomes for them and continually improving the way that legal services are delivered.
Melissa has a lot of wisdom to share, and in our conversation, we dug deep into flexible work practices, her core business philosophy and her approach to organisational culture, and we speculated about what future law firms might look like.
Listen to the full episode to hear all of the above, plus all of this too:
- What a law firm should be like
- The impetus for Melissa’s shift into business development
- The challenges that Hive has faced with their varied approach
- Melissa’s early life and how it shaped her career
- What a healthy work culture looks like
- The value of progressive thought around work flexibility
- Why flexibility is a cultural issue, not a gender-based one
- Why Melissa doesn’t believe in the ‘work-life juggle’
- Why the ‘why’ is more important than the ‘what’ or the ‘how’
- What a good business development manager looks like
- What’s different about Hive Legal
- How lawyers can foster an entrepreneurial mindset
- The benefits of not using timesheets
Links:
Hive Legal
LinkedIn
If you’re one of the many lawyers who finds themselves in a funk, disillusioned or unhappy in their work, then this is an episode that’s not to be missed. In this instalment of the Beyond Billables podcast, we spoke with Legalite founder and principal lawyer, Marianne Marchesi, about courage, perspective and forward-thinking in the legal industry.
Marianne’s experience at large law firms right through to a boutique firm has exposed her to a wide range of clients in various industries – including food and hospitality, fitness, retail, entertainment, pharmacy and real estate.
Marianne is a shining example of how, with a little persistence, you can carve out a niche for yourself within the law. Our chat traced her career, struggles, entrepreneurial journey, lessons to her younger self, and how she thinks about marketing and living the good life.
Listen to the full episode to hear all of the above, plus all of this too:
- Why Marianne left the law for a year
- How to summon the courage to launch your own firm
- How Legalite does things differently
- How Legalite keeps their overheads low
- The challenges of being a lawyer and running a business
- The future of new law models
- How Legalite views marketing from a different perspective
- Why people struggle to get their heads around new law firms
- How Marianne approaches work-life integration
- What transcendental meditation has meant to Marianne
- The future of Legalite
Links:
Legalite
LinkedIn
Instagram
Facebook
Are you unhappy in your current role? Thinking of making a big change or a career transition? On today’s episode of Beyond Billables, we present another inspiring case study of a lawyer who turned to something else. Matthew Hollings is a graduate of The Queensland University of Technology in Law and Economics, and he was a solicitor at Gadens Lawyers for a number of years before taking on a business development role at Law In Order.
Matthew has ten years combined experience in legal and sales-orientated private sector roles, and he was a great person to speak to about making a big shift in work. In our conversation, we traced Matthew’s journeys, talked about how he made the tough decisions, chatted about the state of legal tech and speculated about what the future of law might look like.
Listen to the full episode to hear all of the above, plus all of this too:
- Matthew’s take on what business development really means
- The importance of having a support network in terms of big career jumps
- The biggest challenges Matthew has faced in taking a different path
- How to get people to take risks on legal tech products
- The benefits an ex-lawyer can bring to other roles
- What Law In Order does in real terms
- Matthew’s approach to educating his target market
- How to get over fear of failure or taking risks
- The types of skills Matthew is focusing on
- What organisations can do better to keep their most valuable people
Links:
Law In Order
LinkedIn
The legal industry is one of the most uniquely taxing and stressful professional environments there is. This has consequences, and one person all too familiar with this is social worker Robyn Bradey, who we were lucky enough to have on this episode of Beyond Billables. Robyn started off training lawyers who worked with clients suffering from mental health issues. But as awareness was raised about mental health within the profession, she quickly became a go-to source of information.
In our conversation, we talked about mental health issues in the legal profession from A to Z. We hit on how some of the structural and qualitative aspects of the law have such dire consequences. Robyn shared some stories from her career, talked about key issues that are changing or need to change and, perhaps most importantly, talked about what people who need help can do.
Listen to the full episode to hear all this, plus things like:
- How to recognise the symptoms of anxiety and depression
- The coming generational change in terms of what’s accepted for workplace ‘norms’
- The power of individual stories, particularly tragic ones
- How to move from talk to action
- Why working in the law can be a perfect storm of negative factors for some people
- What lawyers can do if they’re struggling
- How to connect people with the support and resources they need
- The pervasiveness of vicarious trauma
- How to get people past the fear of asking for help
- Why developing a thicker skin is both good and bad advice
Links:
Lifeline Australia
If you’ve ever wondered what it’s like to start your own law firm, then this episode of Beyond Billables is for you. Mike sits down to talk to lawyer and good friend, Barry Spinks, to get his take on all things entrepreneurial. Barry is a partner at Spinks Eagle, a family man and a Brazilian jiu jitsu blue belt. He has had a fantastic journey so far, one that has taken him all over Australia and given him plenty of experience, and plenty of highly valuable advice.
Barry discusses things like how he made partner, taking the leap to begin running his own firm, the skills lawyers need to keep great clients, and how to maintain a balanced work and home life. Barry is an inspiration to professionals in every stage of their career, and his journey serves as a great reminder of the importance of removing your limitations and taking advantage of opportunities when they present themselves.
Listen to the podcast to hear more on the above, as well as:
- How Barry turned his lack of guidance and structure into positive outcomes
- Why you sometimes just have to turn up, robe up and give it a red-hot go
- The characteristics Barry looks for in graduates who have applied to work for his practice
- The benefits of having no limitations or expectations, and why you should believe you can do anything
- Barry’s tips on dealing with intense pressure
- The importance of going off the grid and unplugging your phone
- Why you don’t always need to take risks to gain successes
- How to be health conscious on a time-budget, and why you should make exercise a habit
- The biggest struggles Barry found while building his practice, and the most rewarding thing he’s gotten from his career
- Life lessons he’d give to his 18-year-old self, plus the riskiest thing he’s ever done
Links
SpinksEagle Lawyers
LinkedIn
Have you ever wanted to make a big transition in your career? What about moving abroad and experiencing something new? In today’s episode of Beyond Billables, we talk to someone who’s checked both of those boxes.
Meet Jon Karolczak, client director at Priori Legal and an Australian who left traditional legal practice for a tech startup in New York City. Jon was a Senior Corporate Attorney at MinterEllison in Australia, practising in corporate bankruptcy, business restructuring, and commercial litigation before he took the plunge and moved abroad. In this episode, we traced his journey, talked about how he overcame difficulties (including a risk-averse mindset), faced his fears, enjoyed innumerable benefits and ultimately found his niche.
Listen to the full episode to hear all this, plus things like:
- What brought Jon to New York
- The comparative advantages of startups vs big corporates
- The benefits of experimentation
- The value of being a continual learner
- The keys to successfully transitioning from a law firm to a startup
- The differences between US-Australian legal service markets
- What excites Jon about the future
- Why the relational nature of legal practice still matters so much
- The key to taking big leaps in life
- The unseen benefits of personal sacrifice
Links:
Linkedin
Personal Site
Priori Legal
Facebook
Instagram
Listen to this episode if you’re interested in taking control of your career and moving away from outdated models. Because doing so might not necessarily mean breaking from the big law establishment. In today’s episode of Beyond Billables, we’re talking with Richard Punt who clearly articulates why this might be the case. Richard is the CEO of Allen & Overy’s Peerpoint consulting platform, where he focuses on businesses development and international expansion.
Before Allen & Overy, Richard was a managing partner with Deloitte and a strategy consultant with extensive experience in the development and execution of strategy and organisation design. And with such a wealth of experience, he’s a great person to report from the front lines of a changing industry.
Listen to this episode to hear how Allen & Overy is adapting to a changing landscape, as well as Richard’s take on the future of legal practice, plus all this too:
- What Peerpoint is and why it matters
- Richard’s take on where legal tech is headed
- The impetus for A&O’s more flexible approach
- The type of lawyers ideal for Peerpoint
- How mainstream firms can restructure their approaches
- The benefit of controlling one’s schedule and workflow
- Peerpoint’s selection criteria
- Tectonic mindset shifts within the legal industry
- Key abilities that future lawyers will need
- Where the legal services market is going
- How big international law firms are evolving
Links:
LinkedIn
The Contemporary Art Society
Peerpoint
Interested in travelling? Curious about the lifestyle of those who bounce around the globe while working remotely? Keen to hear how one guy has made it all work? If you checked any of these boxes, you won’t want to miss this week’s episode of the Beyond Billables podcast.
In this show, we chatted with Stephen Findley, a consultant, business development associate with Compliance Quarter, and the founder of the Remote Salesman. Stephen has managed to travel the world over the past two years with his girlfriend while maintaining a full-time sales and business development role. According to some, he’s lived the dream.
In our conversation, we traced Stephen’s journey from more conventional employment to the backroads of Vietnam to the coworking spaces of Bali. We dug into the pros and cons of the travel-working lifestyle, talked about the skills needed to adapt to an all-digital role, touched on how others might emulate him, and speculated on the future of the economy.
Listen to this episode to hear the full version of Stephen’s adventures, plus things like:
- How Stephen got into a remote work position
- What Compliance Quarter is and how it functions
- How Tim Ferriss inspired some of Stephen’s life decisions
- How to handle a client-facing role remotely
- How sales is changing in the modern era
- The struggle around finding routine as a traveller or remote worker
- How to pursue travelling and remote work (particularly in sales)
- The special sauce to Stephen’s professional approach
- The ingredients that make up a good coworking space
- The key skills that people need to develop for remote works
Links:
LinkedIn
Twitter
The Modern Remote Salesman
Compliance Quarter
Today we sat down and picked the brain of a techie legal product manager on what’s coming in the future. Philipp Thurner is one of the key faces behind LawAdvisor, he’s also an associate consultant with Janders Dean and founder of CHITIT, a lean innovation consultancy firm. He has been responsible for the co-ideation, design, and development of innovative legal technology solutions that have been recognised by the Financial Times and RSG Consulting APAC Innovative Lawyers Awards.
In our conversation, we traced the trajectory of his career, talked about the state of legal tech development, touched on resistance he’s facing in introducing new tools, what lawyers can do to prepare for the future, artificial intelligence, cryptocurrency, the dark web and blockchain technology.
Listen to this episode to get to grips with the cutting edge innovations taking place in and around the legal industry, plus all this too:
- Gilbert & Tobin’s approach to building an innovation team
- A quick primer on blockchain technology and where it might be headed
- The mindset and skills needed for a new law graduate today
- Why the gig economy is the way of the future
- What the dark web is and how it functions in practice
- The value of being allowed to experiment and fail
- Philipp’s experience balancing tech solutions against pre-existing business models
- Why law firms need legal project management
- Typical problems, pain points and inefficiencies that legal tech can address
- How making himself ‘redundant’ was one of Philipp’s best professional moves
Links:
LinkedIn Law Advisor Twitter
If you’ve ever thought about giving up on your corporate career and pursuing your passions, then you’ll 100% want to check out this episode of the Beyond Billables podcast, because this week we’re speaking with someone who did just that. Meet Brooke Elliston. Brooke is a yoga teacher, mindfulness advocate and ex-corporate attorney. In this episode of the show, we chart her fascinating journey, delve into lessons learned and get a great primer on yoga along the way.
Brooke began her career with Turkslegal in bankruptcy law and subsequently moved on to banking ligation with Gadens. Despite being relatively happy with her job, Brooke was under a lot of stress and developed a series of seemingly inexplicable health problems. These problems became so severe that she had to stop and reevaluate what she was doing. This started her down a path out of a legal career, into an exploration of mindfulness and ultimately to finding true fulfillment as a yoga teacher.
Listen to the full episode to hear all this, plus things like:
- The journey Brooke followed to leave her legal career
- The dangers of having a perfectionist tendency for lawyers
- Brooke’s first job in the law and what she learned from it
- How to approach yoga for the first time
- Brooke’s advice to her younger self
- The difference between ‘theoretical’ understanding and ‘physical reality’ understanding
- How Brooke started her own business
- What a yoga retreat looks like on the inside
- The challenges associated with shedding one’s ‘identity’
Links:
Facebook Brooke Elliston Yoga Instagram Body Mind Life
Want to glimpse into the future of generational dynamics? In this episode of the Beyond Billables podcast, we chatted with demographer Claire Madden to try to make some sense of what some of these generational shifts mean in a legal context. Claire is a great person to talk to because, beyond being a social researcher, she’s also a keynote presenter, TEDx speaker, media commentator and business communicator.
We covered a lot of ground in our conversation and worked through the key findings in Claire’s forthcoming book, Hello Gen Z. We dug into the characteristics of Gen Z, areas where they excel, areas where they may be lacking, the elements that have shaped them, and, ultimately, how they can change the legal profession and how it needs to change with them.
LISTEN TO THE FULL EPISODE TO HEAR ALL THIS, PLUS TOPICS LIKE: * The defining characteristics of Gen Z * How technology has formulated a more collaborative new generation * What it means to say Gen Z is ‘very relational’ * Why job mobility and flexibility matter more now than stability * Why attitudes have casualised toward work * The areas where Gen Z is lacking and need to professionally develop * How legal employers can begin catering to the new generation * Why Gen Z has such a strong desire to be social and make a positive change * What future legal clients look like * Why Gen Z carries a currency and a relevancy that matters now
Links
LinkedIn Hello Clarity Claire’s TED Talk
If you’re interested in changing with the times as a legal professional and as an entrepreneur, then you’ll definitely want to check out this latest episode of the Beyond Billables show. Meet Sarah Bartholomeusz. Sarah is the founder and director of You Legal, one of the fastest growing corporate law firms in Australia. Her focus is corporate and commercial law, helping growing businesses at all stages of their lifecycle. She has extensive experience in the law, including providing high-level legal and corporate governance support to ASX listed companies.
Check out this episode to hear a first-hand account of how Sarah dealt with being let go and ultimately rose up to start her own business. In the conversation, we also touched on the changing dynamics of legal practice, the importance of working off referrals, and ultimately what lawyers can do to prepare for the future.
LISTEN TO THE FULL EPISODE TO HEAR ALL THIS, PLUS TOPICS LIKE: * How You Legal grew and attracted clients so quickly * Why starting in a top tier law firm is a perfect career foundation * You Legal’s approach to scaling * Why pressure is a necessary impetus to creating valuable solutions * How ‘going out there’ is starting to become the safer option * The pros and cons of a remote, globally distributed team * Sarah’s take on AI and offshoring * How to make hiring decisions as a new law firm
Links
LinkedIn Boardroom Boot Camp You Legal Twitter