Sweat the Details by Nest Realty: Recent Episodes
Nest Realty
On Sweat The Details by Nest Realty, Jonathan Kauffmann, Keith Davis and Jim Duncan of Nest Realty sit down with experts and industry leaders to discuss the details - from design and data to branding and technology - that are influencing real estate and today’s agents. It's inside baseball for the real estate brokerage industry.
We discussed the settlements 30ish days in, some of the struggles as we all adapt, how Nest has acted moving forward, the value of experience and practice, single agent dual agency, and staying true to our strengths, client and Realtor relationships, and the perspective of "better" or "worse" as decouple commissions are the new reality.
This week, we were joined by Jonathan Miller, President and CEO of Miller Samuel Inc., a real estate appraisal and consulting firm based in NYC. We covered a lot of ground - transparency in light of the NAR settlement, how long it might take to find the needed market equilibrium, the magic interest rate number that will open up the market and the offset effect cash buyers, the coming homeowners insurance market crisis, unemployment, and the lack of a "national" market.
Hey Everybody - we are taking a short break this week and next. We are planning on what the second half of the year looks like for Nest Realty and Sweat The Details. We'll see you all very soon!
This week, Jim and Keith talk about where they seek and find inspiration for knowledge and creativity when advising clients and agents, and for writing and learning.
We welcomed Danushka Nanayakkara, an economist with the National Association of Homebuilders.
We talked about home sales, builder confidence, what builders pay in interest when they are building, acquisition & development, building for rent, square footage of new homes, what homebuyers want, the mortgage rate lock-in effect, population and immigration.
We talked about several topics this week, from experiences and admiration of Jason Fried of 37 Signals and Brian Chesky of AirBnB (recent podcast with him on Adam Grant's show), the value of great representation in the face of AI, print collateral’s true value, and what some of the coming changes may mean to consumers and agents.
We hope you enjoy the conversation we had with Brian Boero from 1000 Watt. We touch on the proposed settlement, humanity, showing value, and the tremendous opportunities as we enter this new real estate era.
1000watt.net
Hey everyone. this is Jim Duncan with sweat the details by nest realty. This week, we were joined by a longtime friend, Greg Fischer of West + Main homes, based in Colorado and Oregon. Greg was one of our earliest guests - all the way back in December 2019. Greg is always a great conversation, and Jonathan, Keith and I are thankful for Greg joining us again. Make sure to stick around for Greg’s detail that he sweats — it’s a great and meaningful one for real estate industry.
Hey everyone. this is Jim Duncan with sweat the details by nest realty. We talked with Lance Lambert from ResiClub. We’ve read Lance’s stuff for years, and were excited to talk to him about ResiClub. A quick skim of the ResiClub page right now is a great snapshot of what ResiClub ResiClub - Zillow’s home price forecast, commute time and pre-pandemic levels, home price changes across this US in 6 interactive maps -- every story is a good one.
Noted stories:
Switching Costs
Smaller new construction homes?
Chart showing home price changes in 6 interactive charts
This week, Jonathan, Keith and Jim discuss the real estate ad dollars being spent at the Super Bowl. Jonathan recaps his trip in Inman. New search engines for home buying are competing for market share in the real estate industry. However, the tech needs to innovate to improve the benefits of users and increase use from agents.
This week on Sweat the Details, Jim was joined by Greg Slater of Nest Realty and Russ Edwards, President of Tiger Solar, and we talked about residential solar, what's on the horizon for solar, some questions and misconceptions consumers and agents may have about solar, and how a fuel company came to invest in a renewable energy company
***We started Nest with core principles that hold true today. Jonathan, Keith and I talked about how great it is we all are to be back together in Nest’s new office building in Charlottesville, and we discussed the merits, and challenges of single agent dual agency, how the lawsuits have changed agency - buyer and seller - in 2024, what might happen if dual agency went away at the national level, some foundational Nest history, and history of real estate agency.
- Back to the office, and how we are better for it.
- Buyer brokerage conversations; how 2024 has changed things
- Debating single agent dual agency, and the history of agency
- Virginia’s dual agency disclosure and the list of things the client is acknowledging
- As of April 2023, 8 states outlawed single agent dual agency.***
Jonathan, Keith and I briefly reviewed 2023 and looked to 2024, which is going to be a time of change for consumers, agents, brokers, and the industry as a whole.
Thank you to everyone for listening, emailing, and sharing our conversations. Here’s to 2024.
Will we have a “normal” spring market in 2024?
A few thoughts about the agent population
Buyer representation, buyer presentations, and buyers seeking definition of value
Single agent dual agency in 2024?
The market is not changing. The market has changed.**
2024 is going to be a year of remarkable and evolutionary opportunity - we're excited.
A note of thanks to our sound engineer, David Stipe, and Little Rhodie Productions. You’ve made us sound good. Thank you.
We were zooming from Nest’s new office space this week!
Human relationships matter.
Jessica Swesey, the Chief Copywriter & Strategist with 1000 Watt joined us, and we talked about marketing, humanity, AI, and authenticity.
Getting everyone in the organization on the same page
Choosing marketing mediums; everywhere and everything may be too much
The value of conveying candor and authenticity with one’s messaging and understanding the difference between perception and reality
Jessica’s fantastic post, TikTok—please stop
1000 Watt’s 2008 video I am not a lead that still resonates today — and SNL’s Zillow sketch
AI vs reality - humans are becoming more adept at determining what is real and what is not
Humanity and vulnerability
Nothing is easy; what good professionals do is make the real estate journey better.
Find Jessica and 1000 Watt:
Jessica on Threads and LinkedIn
1000 Watt on LinkedIn and their homepage
The guys are off this week and we are revisiting a fun episode from 2021 with the Savanah Banana's.
Hey everybody This week on Nest Realty’s Sweat the Details, we were joined by Dean Cottrill — cah-Trill - he is an executive vice president of T3 Sixty, a California-based management consultancy in the residential real estate brokerage industry. We talked commonalities of successful brokerages, what to look for in real estate brokerage leaders, technology’s evolution and impact on the belly to belly nature of real estate, and what detail brokers should be sweating as we enter a brave new world of real estate.
Find Dean Cotrill:
Executive Vice President — T3 Sixty
Website: www.t360.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dean-cottrill-2590a5a/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dean.cottrill.3
One of our favorite guests joined us -- This week, Mike Simonsen from Altos Research/Housing Wire joined Jonathan, Keith, and Jim. We talked about markets that are the leading edges for the US housing market, inventory shifts, what data points Realtors and consumers should be focusing on, where in the US might be more poised for growth and balance, pricing, real estate values, and a whole lot more.
Where you can find Mike Simonsen:
Altos Research
YouTube
Housing Wire
This week on Sweat the Details, Jim, Jonathan, and Keith talk about rate locks and predictions, buyer fear mitigation, transferable mortgages, leveraging equity, borrowers’ flexibility, listing agents’ marketing responsibilities and quite a bit more.
Thank you for listening, and please rate and review us!
Buyers are moving further than they were pre-covid
Affordably housing resources ad HUD.gov
Affecting buyers: childcare, eldercare, student loans
Cash offers are move common now
Repurposing buildings to housing - “It's about 15% to 25% cheaper and brings repurposed properties on-line faster than new construction.”
This week we were joined by Cynthia Adams of Pearl Certification; we talked about the Inflation Reduction Act, high performing homes (what they are, and why people want and enjoy them), how homeowners can plan to take advantage of the IRA.
Inflation Reduction Act 101: What’s in it and how does it affect me?
DOE Releases New Rebate Guidance for the Inflation Reduction Act
Home energy rebates and the IRA
Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 - What it Means for You
Frequently asked questions about energy efficient home improvements and residential clean energy property credits
A near-end of summer recap with Jonathan, Keith, and Jim, a look ahead to 2024 for consumers and agents, and discussion about marketing and brand expectations set by brokers around the country.
Mortgage rates are up a bit in the past few weeks, inventory in Charlottesville is near the lowest it has ever been, where is inventory going to come from? What happens if and when interest rates go back down? Will the market go back to a frenzy? In the meantime, how can agents adapt to this new and slower market?
Keith references our recent Sweat the Details with lender Matt Hodges
This week, Bram Gallagher from AirDNA joined us on Sweat the Details. Topics were wide:
AirDNA is the leading provider of data and analytics for the $140 billion dollar short-term rental industry.
There are about 80.5 million owner occupied housing units in the United States; there are about 1.5 million short term rentals, per AirDNA.
We talked about whether there is an AirBnBust, the impact of short term rentals on the residential real estate market, short term rental policies, and the short and long term outlook for short term rentals
What excites you about technology right now?
Our first Nest video, and how we use technology
What makes a tool the “right” tool, and will agents use it?
What tools help our clients?
Great design builds trust
Some early thoughts on Artificial Intelligence in real estate
Coded Bias on Netflix
AI & the value of human credibility
Where are mortgage apps?
10 year treasury and 30 year mortgage
Are more people looking at ARMs?
A holistic approach to advising buyers in this market
How has the conversation with buyers changed?
When should buyers start the conversation with the lender?
30 year fixed rate mortgages (Planet Money)
PMI
Loan level pricing
What innovations are on the horizon for the lending industry?
Algorithms
Common liabilities with buyers - child care and student loans
Location efficient mortgages and total cost of ownership
Gas price math, or the cost of transportation and homeownership
What detail does Matt sweat?
Real estate and property taxes – they go together hand-in-hand.
This week we spoke with Sally Hudson, Virginia Delegate, and UVA professor about how a land value tax might change how we tax properties, and how that would affect urban design, parking, affordable housing – basically everything in real estate.
New cars, once part of the American Dream, now out of reach for many
Scarcity = Luxury?
On shoes
Blundstones
What % of real estate - and all - markets are luxury?
Housing availability
Mortage Rate Lock-in
Having kids and demographics
30% of people don’t have mortgages
1/3 of new inventory is new construction - historical average is closer to10%
Scarcity of the right kind of house that buyers need - referencing sandwich generation.
Homebuilder sentiment index
Great (builder) profits amid lousy sales
Lumber prices - from a high of $1,500 to current ~$520
Scarcity created in new construction markets
Apartment glut - here or coming?
Remodeling opportunity will abound as the market shifts
Does the speed and ease of communication drive the frenzy and the markets?
Please subscribe to Nest Realty’s Sweat the Details wherever you listen to podcasts, and please rate us and share the podcast if you like it!
Elephant and the blind mice
Divided housing market
Algorithmically noting whether a house has been smoke in or lived in by cats
AVMs and their algorithms
Zestimates, assessments and Zillow's accuracy Zillow becoming more right.
Unique snowflowers
Jonathan tracked the effect of professional photos on a Zestimate
ChatGPT hiring humans
Take professional photos early
Value of local knowledge about housing stock and inventory
Questions/comments? Please email Jim@NestRealty.com
Episode 62: The Perfect Inventory Storm
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What if real estate is “sold out”?
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Why do we not have enough homes on the market?
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Charlottesville local builder contraction
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Buyers’ and agents’ frustrations in this market
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An amazing note card from Nest’s marketing department
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How’s the market?
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Emotions and winning an offer.
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“Finding the next” is limiting inventory
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Life, birth, divorce, job - why do people move?
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Affordability, home prices, new construction
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Shrinking inventory and availability of land
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Climate change
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Life decisions and real estate
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The market is what it is.
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Nike's inventory, adidas inventory; how will builder inventory respond?
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Generational Shifts
Show Notes
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Mapping segregation - DC
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Mapping prejudice - Minneapolis
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Mapping inequality - University of Richmond
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Jefferson school of African American history
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Mapping Charlottesville
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Charlottesville never got a redline map?
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What were redline maps?
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Clip to the Amazon show
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1948 supreme court decision
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Zoning and 1968 Fair Housing Act
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Infrastructure, tree canopy
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Barbara Brown Wilson & the Equity Center
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Our podcast with Barbara Brown Wilson, Episode 49: Urban Design, Climate Change, Equity and Resilience
Crowdsourcing Mapping Charlottesville
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At least 500 have logged a single deed
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250 people have logged multiple deeds
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HB 788
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Restrictive covenants; certificate of release of certain prohibited covenants. Prohibits a deed containing a restrictive covenant from being recorded on or after July 1, 2020, and provides the form for a Certificate of Release of Certain Prohibited Covenants to be recorded to remove any such restrictive covenant.
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Link to Richmond Sunlight
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The Color of Law
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A relevant Twitter thread about Race and Land Use
Chris Henry is Co-Founder and President of Stony Point Development Group, an award-winning real estate development company driven by creating great places and enhancing lives through the built environment. Stony Point Development Group has executed over $250MM of ground-up development and acquisition of urban mixed-use projects in Virginia, North Carolina and Massachusetts. Chris is active civically in Charlottesville, VA as a member of the Strategic Housing Partnership and the inaugural class of Monticello Young Advisors. Chris was awarded the Christopher Lee Small Businessperson of the Year award by the Charlottesville Chamber of Commerce in 2019. He lives in downtown Charlottesville with his wife, two young children and two labradoodles.
Show Notes:
Dairy Central in Charlottesville
Stony Point Development Group
How place can impact and enhance lives
Riverside Village
ULI and urban planning
Transit and pedestrian oriented development
Champion Ice House - Craig Hartman & Hunter Smith in Gordonsville, Virginia.
Imagination process
Covid’s accelerating change of retail
Community building and local businesses
Center of Promise at 10th & Page
Niki Simon and Michael Coleman, Nest HQ’s Air Traffic Controller and Marketing and Development Manager, joined Jim and Keith this week. We love talking to Nesters, and Michael and Niki were no exception. Hear how they came to Nest, and how they help build and foster the Nest culture, and how they make Nesters better at what they do.
Show Notes:
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How our marketing department has grown and evolved
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Having one person, one point of contact for agents is invaluable
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Growing marketing from Charlottesville to all Nest offices
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Consistency of onboarding
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Learning Nest’s marketing tools
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Nest’s Agent Advisory Committee
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How they make Nest agents better at what we do
Olivia Mariani joined Jim and Keith this week to discuss Curbio, a pre-sale renovation company, how they have shifted and adapted due to the pandemic, and how what they offer can benefit buyers, sellers, and Realtors.
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One of the shifts Curbio has made is: They are the finance mechanism, and they are turnkey
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Solution for Realtors and Sellers
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How fast can Curbio turn around a project? Within 3 days
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Curbio + their app reduces turn time by 60%
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Average turnaround time is 4-8 weeks for basic, and 8-12 weeks for a larger project
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How have they grown?
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How have agents and brokerages adopted Curbio’s offering?
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Some of Curbio’s case studies. The one she referenced that yielded $182K profit to the seller
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Farming older neighborhoods?
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Future of their business - rebranding, Realtors cannibalizing the business
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Curbio for buyers
The Nest Realty crew of Jonathan, Keith and Jim talk about proptech in the 2020s.
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Last week’s podcast with Mike Simonsen
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CoStar - new offer to buy CoreLogic
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Zillow buys ShowingTime
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Rob Hahn’s thoughts on Zillow + ShowingTime
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Zillow’s Flex agent program
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Lone Wolf also on an acquisition spree
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Book: The Innovator’s Dilemma
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Ford Motor Company and Big Data
Mike Simonsen, with Altos Research, joined us for the second time and we discussed the housing crisis, state of the market, interest rates, data points that may signal the market cooldown, and we even touched on housing policy that may address our crisis. There was one number that shocked us; hope you enjoy the show.
Show notes
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Will the market cool?
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What’s the state of our housing crisis?
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Rising interest rates will be the driving force in a potential cooldown
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Will rents drop?
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Altos’ research channel with weekly market updates
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Altos on Calculated Risk
Jonathan and Keith were joined by Jesse Cole, the founder of Fans First Entertainment and owner of the Savannah Bananas, a Coastal Plain League baseball team in Savannah, Georgia. Cole and his teams have welcomed more than a million fans to their ballparks. Jesse has been featured on MSNBC and is a keynote speaker all over the country, promoting the mantra “If it’s normal, do the exact opposite.”
Show notes:
Who is their competition? Other baseball teams? Netflix? Amazon?
What are liquid expectations?
Why we have to always be improving
Game changer was recognizing the difference between marketing and attention
Eliminating friction
Books cited:
Creativity, Inc
Find Your Yellow Tux
Disney’s Land
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Recapping the Nest Summit
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Jesse Cole with the Savannah Bananas
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Savannah Bananas
-NAR’s Chief Economist, Dr. Yun, joined us
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His presentation is here
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New construction material increases and supply chain challenges
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Existing and new construction home sales up
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NAR’s annual homebuyer profile
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Prospect of fewer repeat home sales, and ramifications
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Looking outside traditional box for marketing and experiential inspiration, and the Savannah Bananas’ ownership of the fan experience
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“It doesn’t matter how many customers you have, it’s the matter of fans,” and for Nest, it’s the number of happy clients
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Value of building connections and community
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And momentum
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Look forward to 2021, some new Nest programs and locations
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Big shout out to our amazing Marketing Department!
Jonathan, Keith and Jim recapped some of their favorite episodes from 2020.
We had a lot of great shows this year, and we’re grateful for your listening, and for our guests for sharing their time, insight, and knowledge.
One more show to go this year, and it’s on to 2021!
Episode 36 - Exciting Innovations, Cooperation, Evolutions through a Pandemic with Vanessa Bergmark
Episode 39 - Silver Linings from Pandemics with Economist Issi Romem
Episode 44 - Subtraction - Offering More by Limiting your Offering with Joel Burslem
We're taking a break this week. We hope you do too. It has been an interesting 2020, and we have two more episodes this year. One is going to be Jonathan, Keith and I talking about what Nest accomplished this year and what we're planning to do in 2021. The other will be highlights from a few of our favorite podcasts in 2020. If you have a particular favorite, we would love to hear from you at sweatthedetails@nestrealty.com. We hope you have a great week and stay healthy and safe.
Debbie Lariviere - Partner and Head Coach at Middleton Elite Coaching and Nest Realty Broker/Realtor
- Who are you?
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What’s your “how I got to real estate coaching” story?
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When should an agent or broker choose coach?
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Leverage points and metrics
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What percentage of your business is agent? Broker?
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How do you evaluate your clients?
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What does success look like? How do you help your clients define success?
Skylar Olsen, Principal Economist at Climate Check, joined us this week. We talked about how the Climate Check service, how they are seeking make this data accessible to all consumers and real estate professionals, and how climate change will affect buyers’ choices about where they live, and how we are going to have to make our homes and areas resilient to the changes brought by massive changes in our climate.
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What is Climate Check?
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What are the data sources?
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FEMA is looking at now; they are looking at now + future
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Evaluating risk factors
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Storm risk; extreme weather risks increasing
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Western PA has high risk for extreme storms
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Washington County, PA
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Flood risk of 87; what does that mean?
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Residential vs commercial risk awareness
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What’s more impactful for people making decisions, flood or fire?
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How to make the property more resilient
Barbara Brown Wilson is an associate professor of urban and environmental planning at the UVa School of Architecture, and a co-founder and faculty director at the UVa Democracy Initiative Center for the Redress of Inequity through Community-Engaged Scholarship (aka The Equity Center). Her research and teaching focus on the history, theory, ethics, and practice of planning for climate justice, and on the role of urban social movements in the built world. Dr. Wilson writes for both academic and mainstream audiences, and is the author of Resilience for All: Striving for Equity through Community-Driven Design (Island Press: 2018), and co-author of Questioning Architectural Judgement: The Problem of Codes in the United States (Routledge: 2013). Her research is often change-oriented, meaning she collaborates with community partners to identify opportunities to move our communities, and the field of urban planning, toward social and environmental justice.
Show Notes
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Shift to be aware of whole system of design of cities, to include our environment
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Cradle to Cradle - Bill McDonough
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Waste can equal food and closed systems
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Climate change and planning
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Shoes made out of water bottles
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Climate change and equity and urban planning
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Zip codes’ effects on equity. More
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Looking for solutions upstream
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Resilience
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Ecological resilience
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Engineering resilience
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Inclusivity resilience
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New York Times mass migration
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Processing trauma with respect to climate change
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Bayou by You in Biloxi
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Friendship Court
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More about Friendship Court
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Countering urban renewal
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Center for Non Profit Excellence
Home design and DIY blogger Cassie Bustamante sits down with the Nest crew of Keith Davis, Jim Duncan and storyteller and content manager Jasmine Bible to talk about the value of wellness in your home, connecting with buyers and visualization.
Designer: Cassie Bustamante -- Blogger, Instagram Trendsetter
Location: Greensboro, NC
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cassie_bustamante/
Website: https://www.cassiebustamante.com/
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Value of wellness in your home and its effect on you
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Repurposing furniture, Facebook marketplace
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Check allergies and smells when buying items second hand
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Tips for Realtors when advising clients
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Paint!
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Tips for sellers to connect with buyers
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Buyers spend time visualizing themselves in houses, often through books
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Are blogs coming back?
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Evolution of her blog.
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Cassie’s Pinterest
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What does she sweat every day?
Keith Davis and Jim Duncan are joined again by Rob Hahn. If you're a regular listener, a couple of weeks ago you heard an episode where Rob and Jim spent time talking about issues surrounding fair housing. Now they’re looking at zoning, school districts and growth.
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Nice White Parents
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Zoning and school districts
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Buyers will negotiate with respect to school district.
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Mapping Charlottesville; “maps inequities in Charlottesville from past to present,” in deeds and covenants
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Impact of technology on school districts; could COVID & tech be the push that erases school districts?
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Private pods
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Single-family zoning and accessory dwelling units n Minneapolis
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Getting rid of anti-growth zoning. NIMBY and YIMBY
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Affordable housing proffers, and Habitat in a Charlottesville neighborhood
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Virginia Bill : Virginia Fair Housing Law; unlawful discriminatory housing practices, sources of funds.
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Should RPAC advocate for growth policies?
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Lenders and rentals and zoning
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Rob Hahn’s podcast with Greg Robertson, Industry Relations
Jonathan, Keith and Jim get together for their monthly podcast to catch up and talk about Interest rates, inventory, supply and demand. The value of transferable mortgages? COVID’s acceleration of change.
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Earnnest; the new way to send earnest money deposits, and the value of making a first impression.
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The future of college towns from New York to Ann Arbor to Lexington.
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Motels’ resurgence. Jonathan’s recommendation for the Lonestar Court.
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AirBnB’s return
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Quick reflection on nearly 50 episodes of Sweat the Details.
This week on Sweat the Details, Keith and Jim were joined by Nest’s Story Teller, Content Manager and Editor in Chief of the Nest Magazine, Jasmine Bible, and Natalie Papier, a Professional Interior Designer, who recently moved from Chicago to Charlotte, and is an Instagram Trendsetter. Find Natalie on Instagram and her website.
We talked about interior design in the time of COVID, where her passion for design began, her move from Chicago to Charlotte, her path to opening her own design firm.
Joel Burslem of 1000watt talks with Nest's Jim Duncan and Keith Davis about technology, the value of editing and subtraction.
Who should be providing technology solutions for agents? The agents? Brokers? MLS? Third parties?
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Subscribe to 1000 Watt’s outstanding newsletter
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Just One Thing by Jessica Swesey
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What can you remove/subtract/remove from your current tech?
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Adding value to the organization with tech; using technology appropriately
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What is the end goal of how you use technology, to the consumer, and to the agent?
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The turf wars of yesteryear are not valuable battles; focus on what’s next
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Who leads in electronic signature implementation?
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Does the brand matter more or less when everyone has the same tech?
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Hammers and postcards; how you use the tool matters.
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The value of words
This week, Rob Hahn, the notorious ROB, one of the most well-known and smartest thinkers in the real estate space, joined us to talk about race, zoning, the Newsday article from November 2019, Realtors policing themselves, the Color of Law, the importance of words and vocabulary in real estate, and RPAC, the Realtor Code of Ethics, and the conversations we need to have.
This is Part One, and we will be following up with Part Two in a couple weeks. We hope you enjoy this discussion, and how it fits in with the ongoing conversations we are having.
Short show notes this time; look for the accompanying blog post on Nestrealty.com for all the links we discussed.
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Newsday - Long Island Divided
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What Rob wrote about it in 2019, and June 2020 followup
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Bill would let state revoke brokers’ licences for discrimination
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Nest's podcast about zoning and racist covenants
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Trump's video about blockbusting
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Racist language
Dr. Jessica Lautz, with the National Association of Realtors joined Keith and Jim on this week’s Sweat the Details. She’s our first second-time guest, and we had a great discussion about this moment in history, and how the real estate market is affected by the pandemic.
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NAR’s Market Recovery Survey (download it here)
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Short commutes are less of an issue
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Buyers’ needs and demands have shifted rapidly due to the pandemic
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Efficiency gains achieved by working at home
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Will this pandemic lead to a permanent generational shift of families living together?
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Urban -vs- suburban shifts
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Home needs shifting - yards, single family
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Household creation, housing inventory, birth rates, and the cost of childcare
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The need for urgent, timely data, and data analysis
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Colleges reopening?
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Student loan debt being paid down now, possibly leading to a buyer boom in the future
The data changes fast, as we were talking about colleges and schools reopening. Things may have changed since we recorded this podcast.
This is a big and heady conversation, as evidenced by the extensive show notes and accompanying blog post, and is the start of what is going to be a needed and necessary ongoing conversation that starts in many ways with how Realtors, originally known as “real estate men” were at the forefront of implementing racially-based zoning and restrictions, and how those, combined with urban planning designed to effect racial segregation continues today.
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I'm excited so many people are interested in my current research. I'm investigating the connections between white supremacy, segregation, and modern anti-housing policy in the US, focusing on Charlottesville, Virginia.
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What is anti-housing policy?
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How racial segregation was sneakily codified by housing type, lot size.
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When did the boom start?
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JC Nichols
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“Real estate men” were part of the entire process of racial segregation
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Who was Harland Bartholomew, and what was his role in establishing national zoning
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Impact of transference of generational wealth
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Systematic targeting of races to rend them
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Urban renewal material is still being taught
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Kelo v City of London
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Transportation & single family zoning impact on segregation
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What’s the opposition to housing types and integration
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Return to urban and tighter communities
- What should we be doing to in urban planning to enhance socioeconomic diversity?
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NIMBY
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Failed bill in Virginia to remove single family zoning
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Minneapolis Has A Bold Plan To Tackle Racial Inequity. Now It Has To Follow Through
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To Avoid Integration, Americans Built Barricades in Urban Space
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Transit-oriented development
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Bicycles and transportation and equality
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Don’t force people to pay for parking
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Density and university parking
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‘Corona Cycleways’ Become the New Post-Confinement Commute
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Superblocks’ huge benefits, where are they, how can we implement them
- How do we create the society we want?
This week on Sweat the Details, we welcomed Dr. Maritza Johnson, who aims to make it easier for people to handle the security and privacy decisions they face in their daily lives. She completed her PhD in computer science at Columbia University and wrote her dissertation on the usability of Facebook privacy settings.
We talked about privacy, security, the difference between the two, smart homes and smart TVs, and the need for us all to be aware and curious about the technology that has fast become part of most of our daily lives.
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What’s the difference between security and privacy?
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Facial recognition and its ubiquity
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Its use to track protestors
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Facebook and the responsibility to police the platform
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Smart homes - thermostats, doorbells, baby monitors, Alexa, Ring
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How Smart TVs track us
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Consumer Reports on Smart TVs
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What regulations in the US protect users with respect to privacy?
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Electronic Frontier Foundations’ privacy guide
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Consumer Reports’ Digital Lab
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That story about Target’s ad tracking in 2012
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'People You May Know:' A Controversial Facebook Feature's 10-Year History
This week we spoke with Issi Romem, economist at MetroSight. We talked with Romem, who holds a PhD in economics, about the changes coming to commercial real estate, silver linings that came from previous pandemics, possible projections for what our world and economy will look like when we get through this pandemic. Plus, Keith and Jim do a wrapup, just the two of them, discussing what we are telling our clients and agents.
In this special episode, Jonathan, Jim, and Keith discuss the partnership with @ Properties, based in Chicago, and how excited we are for the future.
Jonathan, Keith, and Jim talked with Inman's global head of community Laura Monroe about their shift into a virtual Inman Connect, the value of community and the strengths brokerages will need moving forward
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Her role as Global Head of Community at Inman
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How Inman, as a distributed team, quickly decided to transition to virtual Inman Connect
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How they will be facilitating connections online
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Creating experiences with different platforms
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Tech trends emerging from brokerages due to pandemic
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Humanity and empathy
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COVID-19 is not necessarily changing the world, but accelerating it
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Analog vs Digital
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Making, and missing, memorable experiences right now.
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Is it ok to put logos on masks?
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What does Inman 2025 look like?
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Travis Scott’s concert
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What detail does she Sweat?
Jonathan, Keith, and Jim welcomed Vanessa Bergmark with Red Oak Realty for a discussion about real estate during sheltering in place, cooperating with competitors during and after a pandemic, and innovating and changing behaviors.
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Quick state of the Bay Area market after the shelter in place order
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How marketing and prepping properties has changed
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Looking outside real estate for insight; NYTimes story about Macy’s
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How showings have changed, maybe forever
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The value of high trust
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Will the real estate transaction get more or less expensive?
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The critical importance of routines for creative work and play.
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Cooperation amongst competitors - more important than ever
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Personal interactions are the foundation of great communication, and the art of communication
Jonathan, Keith, and Jim - Culture and Innovations in a Pandemic
This is our first “time sensitive” podcast. Previously, all of our topics have been those that while not timeless, are topics that are relevant if you listened the day it was released, or the week or two after.
We’re in different times now, and while the concepts of brokerage culture, home offices, water cooler talk, and humanity will always be relevant, this time in our history sets up the chance that conversations on 15 April 2020 are likely to be very different than those on 15 May 2020.
Notably, this is the first podcast we have done where the three of us were not in the same room; we think it worked out pretty well. What do you think? Have a comment or feedback? SweatTheDetails@NestRealty.com
Nest's Jim Duncan and Keith Davis sit down with Nest's Taylor Titus, Nest's Director of Agents Services how she supports, guides, and leads our agents, the value of authenticity in marketing, and being human. We discus her role and how it has evolved into the Director of Agent Services from Client Happiness Coordinator, how she supports, guides, and leads our agents, the value of authenticity in marketing, and being human.
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Ovia pregnancy health app
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Ink Cards
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Value of being human. Stationary is a way
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Celebrating the moments
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Remember postagram?
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Communicating Nest’s tools to our agents across all markets
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Authenticity in marketing
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Pain points that Taylor identifies through the lens of the agent?
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Some moments need a hug
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The value of having a remarkable marketing team within Nest
We welcomed Bart Isley with Scrimmage Play, the Charlottesville region’s local sports journalistic home. They cover 19 schools, and hundreds of teams, and are a remarkable asset to the community.
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What is Scrimmage Play?
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Value of high school sports - to the kids, schools, community - a uniting story
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Being the positive filter
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Picking up what local news used to cover
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Naming names
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Customer acquisition challenge with rapidly changing student population
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Merits of different forms of media
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“People trust us” - how to build, how to own mistakes
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How well kids handle interviews; helping kids to avoid hurting themselves
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Providing voice to the voiceless
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History of segregated schools in Charlottesville
http://www.scrimmageplaycva.com/articles/stories/long-last-viaha-inducts-first-hall-fame-class/
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Giving back to the community
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Changing people’s worlds
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Showing up
Reinforcing new habits this week. We just changed our schedule to interviews every other Tuesday, and Jonathan, Jim, Keith every third Thursday. We were missing one of us this week, but kept our new habit. We run down a quick list of some of our favorite podcasts.
Criminal
The Indicator from NPR
Calculated Risk (when we were starting Sweat the Details, I had asked him for an interview :) )
The Moth
After Hours from Harvard Business Review
How Money can Buy Happiness
Questions/comments/feedback? Please email us - SweatTheDetails@NestRealty.com
Habitat for Humanity - More than Homes
Lance Barton with Habitat for Humanity, Staunton-Augusta-Waynesboro area joined Keith, Jim, and Jonathan and they discussed what Habitat does and how they impact their communities as well as dispel some myths about Habitat, one of the most well-known organizations in the world.
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Financial qualifications and the willingness to partner with Habitat
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What’s the need for Habitat?
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Huge misconceptions about who qualifies for Habitat
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Housing costs are astronomical in context of costs of living
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Who pays for the Habitat House?
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Is Habitat doing neighborhood development? Is density part of the affordable housing solution?
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Habitat is a social developer. (and what is that?)
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How does Habitat share knowledge between other Habitats?
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What is the role of the Realtor in the Habitat environment?
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Managing increasing cash flows
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Habitat equity creating generational opportunities
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Differences between food banks and Habitat
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Defining Habitat’s success
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One of the biggest misconceptions is that Habitat is a solution for homelessness
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Creating a tribe that doesn’t need them
Sweat the Details welcomed Alison Alston and Lezette Markham from Lodestone Real Estate in Charlotte, North Carolina. We talked about their concierge process, how they are mindfully building their business and agents, and how they’re setting and raising client expectations.
What we covered:
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How they came to Charlotte
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Similarities between the non profit and real estate worlds and relationships
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Disney and the real estate process
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Scaling a phenomenal concierge offering
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Client experience success stories & supporting the clients
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Balancing the agents’ stress and sanity?
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Mindful business practices in the service industry
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Avoiding burnout and setting expectations, boundaries and vibe
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Choosing target charities each year
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Expectations about Inman
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Everything we do is about relationships
The Nest crew of Jonathan Kauffmann, Jim Duncan and Keith Davis talk about cooperation and scouting agents but start with the story of their first agent appreciation party.
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Nest’s first agent appreciation party
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Value of being involved in the agent community, Realtor association
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Relationships matter
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Cooperation with other agents, in small and large markets
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Market dynamics in Richmond, Charlottesville, Fredericksburg, Charlotte
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Balance of advocating for clients, and balancing agent relationships; it’s never personal
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The team involved matter - local lenders in particular
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Homesnap’s agent scouting report
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Whoop strap
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Data, tracking data, how to apply that insight
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Nest’s Mentorship program; things that Keith pushes our mentees
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Valuing your sphere
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Jim’s life lesson when coaching soccer
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Open houses can work
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Show up; know your stuff
Brad Nix, of Path and Post, formerly RETSO, and OfferBarn joined us this time. We went a bit longer than usual, but it was worth it.
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What is OfferBarn?
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What friction is OfferBarn removing, and how have things changed for the consumers?
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How the agent can and should be filling the strategic advisor role.
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“Advice is the value”
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What’s the value of less friction?
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What happens if/when the market turns?
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Difference between value and price
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Price, speed/time, hassle
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Walking through the iBuyer process
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Agents’ roles with respect to iBuyers
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Craft beer and real estate
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Sweat the Details podcasts with Three Notch’d Brewery, and Starr Hill
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Craft brewing - an analog third place
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Real estate and placemaking
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RETSO
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The selfish, organic creation of RETSO, and the lasting relationships and community it generated
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Creating something that people will miss
Show Notes
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What is a utility-scale energy company?
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What inspired a Navy helicopter pilot to want to work in the clean energy field?
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Transition from Apex Wind to Apex Clean Energy
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Grid logistics, selling to Facebook
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Wind and solar projects are often built on agricultural land; these projects are an additional “crop”
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Impact on nearby communities
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A big company in a small town
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Building with timber instead of steel could help pull millions of tons of carbon from the atmosphere; Apex’s new building
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Working with architect Bill McDonough
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Apex employees to have more sustainable practices
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Grants for employees to put solar on their homes, for electric cars, charging stations at the new building
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Wind predictability and the grid
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Battery storage
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How wind and solar compliment each other
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The future of renewable energy in the US
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The future of Apex
The Nest Realty crew sits down with Paigelee Chancellor, Nest's Design Director for a look inside Nest's marketing and what's next.
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Establishing brand consistency
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Helping our Nest offices use and leverage the brand, and building the foundation
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Culture of the in-house Nest Marketing team
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Nest’s annual reports
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Two challenges (and opportunities) that her team sees consistently (and what new Nest offices may start to prep as we grow)
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Localization process on a market by market basis.
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What are you working on right now?
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What would you tell someone about working at Nest?
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Tote bags and cardboard birds
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Nest Magazine evolution; 3.0 in fall 2020
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Value of agent customization
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How many magazines do we publish, and how many different versions are there?
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Trifolds.
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The one detail that Paigelee sweats
Tech in 2010
Video of Jonathan, Jim, Keith in 2010
First bought by Re/Max
That Bantam moment
Data ownership and loyalty
Visual tours and market segment evolution
Informing our clients about data privacy and ownership
Allbirds
Rings hacked
Emailing copies of earnest money deposit checks
Data protection
Predictions
Checks
A big acquisition?
2020 market
Less blockchain, more AI
Building vs buying technology and tech stacks
Impact of the elections?
Continuation of brokerages buying tech
Lessons Learned from Zillow & Nest
Jonathan, Keith, and Jim talk about Zillow, the sunsetting of Zillow’s Premier Agent Program, who owns the “Voice of Real Estate” title.
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Zillow and Customer Satisfaction Scores
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Vetting leads
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The value of a high quality agent
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What if waiters and waitresses paid for their shifts?
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Are consumers qualified to rate agent competence?
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Zillow Group hit with second class action lawsuit over Premier Agent
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Zillow’s evolution from media company to owning the transaction
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The value and efficiency of fewer, better agents
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Where is NAR in this conversation?
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Zillow is now the voice of real estate
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What is the NAR’s product?
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Uber and discrimination
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Will agents be forced to be on Zillow?
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Building a local brand in the age of Zillow’s dominance
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Zillow learning from Nest
We just had our Nest summit, where we brought brokers and agents from our 14 offices to Charlottesville. We were going to send this out to just our 300 or so agents, but thought you might like it too. Jonathan, Keith and Jim talked about 5 big topics: Zillow’s “moon mission,” iBuyers (Opendoor, Knock, OfferPad, Redfin, Zillow Offers), the end to end real estate transaction, Fair Housing in light of the Newsday investigation, the new Clear Cooperation MLS 8.0 policy, smart phones and technology, and a few tangential topics woven in.
Greg Fischer, Chief Technology Office at West + Main in Colorado, joined us and we had a great discussion ranging from tech to relationships, the role of the realtor, and community, and he gave one our favorite “what detail do you sweat” answers we’ve had so far.
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The role of technology in real estate in 2020
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Community and relationship marketing and tech
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Overrated and underrated tech
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What tech we’d like to see in real estate
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Collecting and sharing data to benefit Realtors, clients, and the consumers
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That time when we had access to lockbox data
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Grubhub’s use of data
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Indie brokerages and big box brokerages
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Building and facilitating culture
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Showing up
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Being selective in who you hire, and having standards
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Indie brokerages in the next five years; the need for access to capital
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Touched on Curbio
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How do you come up with new ideas?
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What detail do you sweat?
Jonathan, Keith, and Jim with Nest Realty covered several topics this time:
- NAR’s Clear Cooperation policy (MLS 8.0)
Arguments against the policy
Building platforms with exclusive listings
Bright’s $5K fine
- Living in a HOA
What if I want to paint my house pink?
Be nice.
Less civility?
HOAs are tiny governments
License to be less
- Chicken sandwiches
Popeye’s chicken sandwiches
1,000 chicken sandwiches a day
$65 million marketing win
Popeye’s Bring Your Own Bun
Is there a similar thing in real estate?
Was/is lead gen the silver bullet?
Back to the Basics still works
We’d love to hear your feedback or answer questions. Take a voice memo and send to us at SweatTheDetails@NestRealty.com
Nest's Jonathan Kauffmann, Keith Davis and Jim Duncan sit down with New Dominion Bookshop's Julia Kudravetz and talk about the similarities between real estate brokerages and independent booksellers in the age of Amazon. New Dominion is the oldest independent bookseller in Virginia and located in downtown Charlottesville, Va.
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Julia's story about how she came to buy New Dominion Bookshop
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How and why she spearheads so many community events
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Transitioning a long-existing brand to a new era
- Ryan Raffaelli's Harvard Business School's study, How Independent Bookstores Have Thrived in Spite of Amazon.com Community, Curating, Convening
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How her client base and demographics have shifted
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Balancing being in different communities
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Amazon. The elephant in the room and undercutting prices: Showrooming…The value of humanity, personal experience and recommendations…"Does Amazon do real estate?"… Rework's podcast
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Value of having an amazing retail storefront and how that affects and impacts her business
We talked with Jasmine Bible, Nest's storyteller and content manager about the next Nest Realty magazine.
- What’s your favorite story in this issue?
- What will excite readers?
- What should they do to get one/when is it coming out?
This time, Jonathan, Keith and I with Nest Realty were joined by Dr. Jessica Lautz from the National Association of Realtors for a wide-ranging conversation, from student debt, birth rates, limited inventory, changing demographics, millennials’ dependence on Realtors, and a lot more.
If you like our podcast, please share it with a friend or colleague, and rate us wherever you listen to podcasts.
Link to NAR’s Research and Statistics Division: https://www.nar.realtor/research-and-statistics
Jessica Lautz
Data@Realtors.org
Topics we covered:
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Changing Factors in Buying a Home
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Why we don’t have enough homes
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How views on ownership value is changing
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Interest Rates
Sticky or Magnetic : Interstate movement
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Pets
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Economics in home buyer decisions
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Understanding Demographics as a Realtor
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Media and the Market
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Untapped Value of NAR to the Realtor
- Never-ending question of Student Debt
Every good thing comes to an end, and the U.S. Economy is in the longest sustained growth period in our history, but there are signs of slowing. This expansion has been driven over the last year by the effects of the 2018 tax reform and ongoing Federal Reserve involvement. We cover a whole host of areas regarding the U.S. economy.
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Discussion of the economic cycle
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Regionality of the expansion and the slowdown. There is no national norm right now.
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The important numbers to keep your eyes on, and how the trade war impacts jobs and inflation.
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Unemployment rates and job creation numbers.
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Employment productivity in new construction and modular homes
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Labor shortages, layoffs, and the future of construction jobs
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Zoning change to drive housing policy
From pre-med to making amazing beer, Scott Roth, President and COO of Three Notch’d Brewery in Charlottesville, Virginia talks about his journey from Lehigh University to Charlottesville, finding the right partners, scaling a growing business, and inflection points. We were intrigued and maybe a bit surprised by how similar a growing craft brewery is to a growing real estate firm.
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Staying on top of and ahead of consumer expectations
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Nuances and competitive advantages of brewing and distribution
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Value of hiring the right talent and team
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6 years from 3 to 10 to 160 employees
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Building and sharing culture with locations that are “islands” away from the home location
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Keeping things local.
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Three Notch’d are the fifth, soon to be fourth, independent craft brewery
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Looking for inspiration from Bell’s, Deschutes, Sierra Nevada
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Goal is to own their backyard (Virginia)
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How does Three Notch’d see their industry evolving in the next 5-10 years? The parallels to real estate are remarkable.
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The inflection point
What do an internationally-known wedding photographer and Nest Realty have in common? It turns out, quite a bit. Join us for a fascinating conversation with Eric Kelley, who has shot 650 weddings since 2004, and travels "all over the world, from Budapest to Ireland."
Photographers who inspired Kelley:
Jen Fariello
Holland Photo Arts
Jack Looney
Jose Villa
The value of wedding planners
Scaling Up book
Referral.Network
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Eric's four criteria for accepting a job
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Date, location, scope of the job, other vendors on the job
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Independence, confidence, and fear
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Sharing availability
Engage Summit, the Wedding Business Summit
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The focus on the client experience, the process of sitting down with the client, setting expectations and the approach.
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Who is your ideal client? Bridging the gap between people.
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Legacy clients
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Planning for the future
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Pre-empting questions, and the value of having a team in place.
Jennifer Kjellgren from Nest Realty Atlanta sat down with Jonathan Kauffman and Jim Duncan about how she learned about Nest, meeting Jonathan at T3, and her journey to opening the Nest Realty office in Atlanta.
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New experience of opening a Nest in a large market
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Value of the Nest brand when growing her brokerage
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Nest’s marketing department and integrating her brand with her existing brand
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The “F” word, franchise
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How Nest was a solution for the things they needed - technology, marketing scalability
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Jennifer’s videos
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Friends of Nest’s value to the agents and the brokers. “Secret Sauce,” in Jennifer’s words
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The value of the Nest brand to agents and the consumers
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How Nest is a growing niche brand that offers value and support to it’s brokers and agents
Jonathan, Keith, and Jim discussed Nest’s recent Lead Broker Summit, how we look outside the real estate space for inspiration and insight, and detailed highlights of what we saw and learned at the outside companies we visited.
We discussed:
Crutchfield, based in Charlottesville
The Draftsman Hotel, an Autograph Collection by Marriott hotel
Farmington Country Club
Farmington’s food truck
Three Notch’d Brewing Company, a rapidly and thoughtfully growing brewing company based in Charlottesville
We talk a bit about Nest’s Envoy platform, and our Friends of Nest program, and the common thread of relevance and humanity through all of the companies.
Each day we walk down streets and interact with others. But rarely do we think about the way which the streets, the sidewalks, or the trees change our interactions. This week on Sweat The Details, we focus on the planning of new residential development and how design can impact our daily lives. We talk with Bob Youngentob, CEO of EYA, a developer outside of Washington, D.C. who seamlessly blends his neighborhoods with some of the most historic areas in our nation.
EYA’s Website: https://www.eya.com/
Episode 11 - Responding to Criticism - Jay Thompson
Show Notes
It all starts with a negative online review. Sitting back and not engaging just isn’t an option. But how an agent responds will likely be more important than the negative review on its own. A public response is the opportunity for an agent to show who they really are, and how they address concerns.
Surveys have shown that a positive response to a negative review can be more valuable than a positive review from the start. Jay Thompson, past Director of Industry Relations and Social Media for Zillow Group joins us to discuss on-line reputation management, and the larger issue of on-line engagement.
A 2017 interview with Jay: https://www.labcoatagents.com/2017/06/05/zillow-chat-jay-thompson/
A story from Jay’s retirement: https://www.inman.com/2018/02/08/jay-thompson-announces-retirement-zillow/
One doesn’t have to search long to find Internet conversations surrounding the value of the real estate professional in a transaction. While there are a multitude of reasons why hiring an agent is wise, one of the most frequently cited is the ability of Realtors to provide relevant interpretation of pricing and sales data.
While few agents would consider themselves well trained economists, clients expect an agent with 20/20 foresight. Mike Simonsen, founder and CEO of Altos Research, has created a company ideally situated to help agents understand the market around them, supporting their efforts to be the expert in their local and broader market. More than 100,000 readers monthly rely upon Altos Research to help them shape their stories. And this episode is about simplifying the message in a way that data can make sense.
Altos Research Homepage
Many groups talk about building community, but the non-profit arena is uniquely positioned to bring together disparate members of a community and put them together, unified in a common goal. Whether it is clients, volunteers, board members, or donors, all are necessary to fulfill a common mission. And many of the people involved give selflessly for no reason other than to build a stronger community.
On this episode, Erika Viccellio, long time non-profit leader in Charlottesville, joins Keith and Jim to discuss the role of non-profits in communities. She’ll talk about raising up leaders in the volunteer ranks and involving the clients in their own future. And she’ll share a bit about her current role in The Fountain Fund, which provides loans to individuals who have been formerly incarcerated. Communities are made better daily by the work of folks like Erika, and we’re thrilled to share our conversation.
The Fountain Fund’s Website: https://www.fountainfund.org/
Jim, Jonathan, and Keith look back at this year’s successful run for UVa’s first national championship in basketball and the 25th national title for the University across all sports, and talk about what a real estate firm (or any company for that matter) can learn from these outstanding athletes and coaches. They’ll talk about capital investments and the need for a long term vision. They’ll talk about putting the right systems in place, and using those systems consistently to generate the right outcomes. And they’ll talk about owning good decisions as well as bad. In part of this discussion, Jim references a short speech that Tony Bennett, the coach of UVa Men’s Basketball, gave his players after they won the national title. You can find that talk HERE.
Jeff Turner is in the business of helping real estate and tech companies. In this installment of Sweat The Details, our discussion revolves around how tech can be used to improve the human experience, or how it can just muddle a simple process into an ornate, nonsensical application. Jeff provides a wonderful view of how brokers need to look at their offering for agents, and how agents can use information to improve their understanding of their clients.
We talk about the 1.4 million REALTOR members, and what sets the great ones apart from the masses. Jeff reviews the future of the great agent. And the future of great real estate technology.
Stick around while Jim, Jonathan, and Keith continue the conversation focusing on dreadful efficiencies and the evaluation of tools. Amy Dawson built trust with real estate clients. How can agents emulate Amy?
Jeff Turner’s Website: https://www.jeffturner.info/
One of his posts we love: https://www.jeffturner.info/shit-sandwich/
Our guest this week was Josh Cromwell, CFO with Starr Hill Brewery, located in Crozet, VA. In 1999, Starr Hill became the second craft brewery to open in the Commonwealth, and is now among more than 250 brewers in Virginia, delivering over 28,000 barrels of beer each year.
We were able to talk about the rich history of Starr Hill and the importance of a successful re-branding of their products. We covered the difference of new product launch and re-presentation of existing beers that are strong sellers that have loyal followers.
And finally, we talk about the importance of the local involvement with the community and the way that community drives culture. Why employee culture is so important to Starr Hill and recognition and rewards.
Starr Hill Redesign: https://starrhill.com/2015/04/27/starr-hill-brewery-releases-new-packaging-designs/
The company’s designer Wyndsor Hug: https://starrhill.com/2016/02/01/meet-the-designer-wyndsor-hug/
We were joined by Jack Miller, President and CTO for T3 Sixty, a leading management consultancy dedicated to the residential real estate brokerage industry. Jack has spent more than 20 years in real estate and has worked in independent and franchise brokerages as well as in the support systems for brokers. We talked about the enormous amounts of capital that have been flowing into the market and helping to fund new real estate brokerage models, as well as new trends like iBuyers. We explore where agent training is headed, and what technology is going to be required to support the new firms.
T3 Sixty link: https://www.t360.com/about-us/
Jonathan, Keith, and Jim with Nest Realty talked with Dan Green with Customer Cultivate, the shift from Realtors being first point of contact, buyer/Realtor/lender gestation period, and a whole lot more.
Jonathan Miller with Miller Samuel, Inc in NYC joined us, and we talked about the Case Shiller’s (ir)relevance, pricing trends foretelling a shifting market, credible market reports, market anchors, and dumbwaiters.
We talked with Alyssa Hellman with Compass South Consulting about goal setting, distractions, schedules, planning and balance.
Market shifts happen. Staying in touch with clients in consistent, authentic ways is one of the ways to prepare for shifting, and any, markets, and the value of providing the right information for clients to make good decisions.