SA Voices From the Field

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Season 12 of “Student Affairs Voices from the Field” concludes with a remarkable episode featuring Dr. Doris Ching, an iconic leader whose influence continues to shape the student affairs profession. Whether you’re a veteran administrator or just starting your higher education journey, this episode is an inspiring listen that traces the arc of Dr. Ching’s extraordinary career, explores the evolution of student affairs, and points to a future built on inclusion, mentorship, and student-centered vision.

Dr. Ching, emeritus Vice President for Student Affairs at the University of Hawaii and the first Asian American and first woman of color to be elected President of NASPA, shares how her journey began as an eighth-grade English teacher and evolved—often unexpectedly—into a series of leadership roles that allowed her to champion student success at every level. Her story is a testament to the power of passion, humility, and saying 'yes' to opportunities that may, at first, feel intimidating.

One of the central themes of the episode is mentorship: Dr. Ching credits her achievements to the many mentors and colleagues who believed in her, and she emphasizes the importance of supporting and uplifting new leaders within the profession. She also reflects on her commitment to rewriting the rules—literally rewriting job descriptions—to ensure her roles always centered on improving institutions for students and colleagues. Her advice to current professionals: if you’re offered a leadership opportunity, take it, and make it your own.

The episode also highlights Dr. Ching’s advocacy for greater representation and support for Asian American and Pacific Islander professionals—work that led to the founding of NASPA’s API Knowledge Community and established enduring community and visibility for AAPI leaders. Her legacy is honored through NASPA awards that bear her name and continue to encourage excellence and diversity in the field.

As Dr. Ching and host Dr. Jill Creighton discuss the past, present, and future of student affairs, listeners are challenged to consider how the profession can remain relevant and impactful, especially by ensuring student affairs always has a seat at the executive table.

This season finale brims with insight, perspective, and heartfelt encouragement—don’t miss the chance to learn from one of the field’s most influential voices. Listen to this episode to feel reinvigorated about your impact and to honor those paving the path for the next generation of student affairs professionals.

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If you’re searching for inspiration, wisdom, and a genuine look behind the scenes of student affairs, the latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field is a must-listen. This unique episode features Dr. Matt Gregory (Texas Tech University) and Dr. Andy Morgan (Illinois State University)—two lifelong friends who started as undergraduate orientation leaders and now serve as senior student affairs officers at major public universities. Their candid conversation, hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton, brims with hard-earned lessons and reminders about what truly matters in higher ed leadership.

The Power of Professional Friendship

Matt and Andy’s journey together is a testament to the sustaining impact of having trusted peers in student affairs. They first connected as student leaders at Southern Illinois University in the early 90s, and even as their careers took them to different institutions and roles, their friendship became a sounding board through every professional triumph and challenge. Their story highlights how vital it is to have a confidante outside your own campus—someone who understands the pressures of the job, offers honest feedback, and helps keep your feet on the ground.

Authenticity in Leadership

A recurring theme in the episode is the importance of authenticity, especially when pursuing leadership roles. Both Matt and Andy recall instances of competing for the same position but emphasized that being true to themselves—not just chasing titles—was key to personal success and lasting friendship. Their advice? Let your genuine self shine through at every stage of your career journey, and remember that every search process is an opportunity to learn and grow, regardless of the outcome.

Evolving Student Affairs in a Changing Landscape

Listeners will also appreciate the episode’s examination of current challenges in student affairs: from navigating volatile policy environments and advancing staff compensation, to advocating for student engagement in a post-pandemic world. Both guests speak to the increasing synergy between student and academic affairs, the need for robust data to demonstrate impact, and practical strategies for supporting staff well-being. Despite pressures and shifting expectations, Matt and Andy’s passion for student success and commitment to inclusive, student-centered leadership truly shines.

Why You Should Listen

Whether you’re new to the field or a seasoned professional, this episode offers not just career advice, but heartwarming stories, candid reflections, and practical strategies you can apply right away. Tune in to be reminded of the enduring value of mentorship, honest connection, and the purpose that brings us to the field in the first place.

Listen now, and let Matt and Andy’s journey encourage and energize your own path in student affairs.

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In the latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, host Dr. Jill Creighton sits down with Dr. Niah Grimes and Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne, two of the three authors behind the ground-breaking new book, Thinking Like an Abolitionist to End Sexual Violence in Higher Education. This episode dives deep into not just the book, but the lived experiences, philosophies, and activism shaping how we address sexual violence on college campuses today.

The conversation is rich, personal, and thought-provoking from the outset. Both Dr. Grimes and Dr. Karunaratne share their journeys into higher education and research, rooted deeply in addressing systems of violence, healing, and examining the needs of minoritized students. Their experiences as scholar-practitioners and their commitment to transformative justice is palpable throughout the discussion.

At the heart of the conversation is the bold theme of “abolitionist thinking.” Rather than viewing abolition solely as dismantling harmful systems, the authors draw on the work of Ruth Wilson Gilmore and others to frame abolition as the presence of care, community, and healing. They challenge the carceral and compliance-driven frameworks that have dominated Title IX and other campus responses while calling for practices that actually meet the needs of survivors and communities—not just adhere to federal mandates.

Dr. Grimes highlights how compliance cultures, rooted in white supremacy, often stifle creativity and community, leading to approaches where “business as usual” takes precedence over true prevention and healing. Dr. Karunaratne adds the importance of local, grassroots efforts and "1,000,000 experiments"—encouraging institutions and individuals to try new approaches, fail, learn, and grow together. Throughout, both assert the transformative power of centering healing—for survivors and for communities as a whole.

Perhaps most refreshing is the authors’ call for those in higher education to move beyond compliance as the ceiling of their work, to instead use it as the bare minimum "floor" from which innovation, accountability, and holistic care can grow. They urge practitioners to honor their own strengths, invest in their healing and that of students, and build community from the ground up.

If you are a student affairs professional, educator, or simply care about safer and more just campuses, this episode will challenge and inspire you. Listen now to hear new perspectives on building communities where all students can thrive beyond the constraints of the current system.

Listen to the episode and rethink how we approach prevention, healing, and justice in higher education. Your campus could be the next place where abolitionist thinking takes root.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:48]: Dr. Grimes was the recipient of the Mary Frances Early College of Education's Research Award and spent her tenure at the University of Georgia investigating campus sexual violence and systems of domination to begin eradicating violence and oppression from higher education. As an assistant professor in the Higher Education and Student Affairs program in the Department of Advanced Studies Leadership and Policy, Dr. Grimes focuses her scholarship and teaching on spirituality and healing, examining the experiences of people on campus with multiple minoritized identities, and eradicating violence and systems of oppression in higher education and beyond. Our second guest is Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne, and she's a postdoctoral research associate in the McCluskey Center for Violence Prevention at the University of Utah. In her research, she employs power conscious frameworks to understand issues of sexual violence in higher education, focusing on interrupting harm and promoting healing for minoritized survivors. Nadeeka's background in student affairs, specifically her work in campus cultural centers and with university violence prevention efforts, influences her scholarship and teaching.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:48]: She's also a trauma informed yoga instructor programs on college campuses and in the community. Welcome to SA Voices, Niah.

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:01:56]: Hi. My name is Niah Grimes. Welcome. I'm happy to be here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:59]: And Nadeeka, welcome.

Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:02:01]: Hi. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:03]: We've got a coast to coast situation today with Naya coming to us from Maryland and Nadeeka coming to us from California. So I'm very glad we were able to make the time zones work out to have this very rich dialogue ahead. We're talking about your book today, which we'll get into in a moment. But before we do that, we always love to start our show by getting to know our guests and how you got to your current seat. So Naya, let's start with you. How did you become an assistant professor?

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:02:26]: Wow. How to sum up such a long journey? I never really saw myself in this role at all. I I actually even in getting the college, I was first gen. I wasn't even considering that, like, the professors teaching me that that was a job available to me. And then at the time, I was at George Mason. They were in r two on the road to r one. So they had a ton of funding that they were pouring into undergraduate research. So I never thought about research, but my professors saw something in me just in my criticality, I think.

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:02:59]: And I'm really just a problem solver, like, I like to solve problems. And so I was studying sociology, equity, and social change, and my professors were pushing me into research. So I was able to start taking qualitative research classes at the undergraduate level. I had an honors thesis where I did a qualitative dissertation level of work, but I interviewed 12 people, men specifically around their experiences retrospectively in high school, how they were taught to learn about sex. There was so much in the literature then almost blaming women for unintended pregnancy. And I'm like, where is the other perspective? And, you know, this is such a larger issue. So that's where I started my work in research, but I didn't believe in the power of research. I felt like we were doing all of this good work, but it wasn't reaching the people I cared about, my community members.

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:03:51]: And so I started to do work more in the community, and I got into mental health counseling. I was doing work with survivors of violence, domestic violence, partner violence, neglected, unhoused youth, and I was working on the suicide switchboard nationally. And I recognized early on that, like, for some reason, I had a capacity to handle some of the harder things. And I leaned into that. One of my supervisors was a counselor, and I admired the relationship she built with the people we were serving. And I was like, I wanna do that. I feel like that's where my time should be spent. So I spent all this time getting a counseling degree, and I ended up counseling mostly in student affairs because I really loved undergraduate students, students in that before 25, the brain fully closed, like, area.

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:04:42]: They just were so open to change and transformation. And as a transdisciplinary scholar, that is what sort of, like, ignites me is where can we make the most transformation towards healing so that people can meet their needs, so that people can live wholly. And from that work, I realized in working mostly with marginalized students, it wasn't them. It was systemic. And so I was like, okay. So now I need to generate power to really try to change structures and culture and community. And the best way that me personally with the identities that I hold to do that, not having any generational wealth, was to go back and get a PhD. So that's how I ended up at UGA with Chris Linder, and it's all really synchronous.

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:05:29]: Right? Because without all of these things along the way, I would have never met doctor Linder. Through Chris is how I met Nadeeka through the Spencer. We did a symposium through Spencer together around sexual violence. And doctor Linder was really like, you have the capacity to really do assistant professor tenure track work. And, again, I I was like, well, I think I really need to practice. At the same time, my disability was getting worse and worse. So I was like, okay. I think that this is really spiritual and that, you know, I can try to work and be disabled.

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:06:04]: It's still challenging, but still do transformative, like, transdisciplinary, equitable work that I love. So that's how I ended up here. Specifically, I work at Morgan State University, which is a HBCU in Baltimore, and I just think that I'm primed for that institutional type. Like, I love how authentic I get to be in my work.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:23]: Thank you for sharing that journey with us, Naya. You referenced doctor Chris Linder, who is the other author on the book. So we're glad to get two or three of you today. Again, we'll talk about the book more in a little bit. And Zika, same question to you. How did you get to your current seat?

Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:06:38]: So I currently work as a postdoctoral researcher. I work with Chris Linder at the University of Utah's McCluskey Center for Violence Prevention. So right now, I'm doing kind of most of my work is research, and I love it. And similarly to Naya, I when I started on my kind of post undergraduate professional journey, I never thought that I would be doing research at all, let alone full time. I didn't foresee a PhD on the horizon, but I pursued my master's in student affairs administration at Michigan State. And I had some really incredible mentors, shout out to Dr. Krista Porter and Dr. Ginny Jones' boss, who were like, hey, do you know about research? Do you know about this side of student affairs and higher education practice and academic programs? And so after I finished my master's, I worked a lot of my research is informed by my work as a student affairs practitioner.

Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:07:27]: So I worked in doing violence prevention education. I worked at a cultural center, racial equity work. And a lot of the questions that I still pursue in my my research and scholarship are from a lot of the experiences I had and things I witnessed as a practitioner, particularly with working with survivors, working with students of color, other minoritized students, and seeing how a lot of the things that we, and myself included, were doing, particularly in the context of anti violence work, weren't working. They weren't serving students. They weren't leading to preventing violence. And they in particular weren't serving the needs of minoritized students like women of color. And so that led me to go back to graduate school to do my PhD at UCLA, where I studied the the healing experiences of women and femme students of color and really to continue to dive into this research and scholarship to, as Naya talked about, seeing what kinds of change and transformation is needed and is needed, especially by students, to better address their needs and to more effectively respond to violence and also importantly prevent violence in higher education. So say much of my current work is informed by my experiences as a student affairs practitioner.

Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:08:37]: I also will say I teach as a trauma informed yoga instructor, and I think that space and that training and experiences teaching really informs how I show up in all kinds of spaces, including in a research context, including in a classroom, including in my student affairs work. And so that's a big philosophy and framework that influences me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:56]: The book we're talking about today is Thinking Like an Abolitionist to End Sexual Violence in Higher Education. Again, you are two of the three authors of this work. And I think hearing your foundations both as scholar practitioners really helps inform the work. It's a bold title, and I love it. Can we start with how did we arrive at this as the right time, the right moment for this piece right now, especially knowing knowing that I'm imagining from when you began to write the piece to now that it's published have shifted quite a bit.

Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:09:27]: Yes. It is a old title, a title that we spent a lot of time talking through and thinking about. I guess I'll share a little bit about how the book came to be, which you're right. Given the publishing timeline and the process, this was a couple years ago that actually Chris Linder brought the three of us together based on kind of our individual and collective work that we had been engaging in and the kinds of conversations that we've been having in as scholars and scholar practitioners around, again, things that we have experienced working with students, have seen, have read, have seen the state kind of of sexual violence in higher education research. And she brought us together to dream and to create something that encapsulated kind of all of our different really brought together all of our different views and work on the area. So for me, I'll say my journey into being a student of abolition is it really started actually as a practitioner. And when I was working as a violence prevention educator, I started to learn about frameworks of carceral feminism by scholar activists like Mimi Kim and Mariame Kaba and learning about the ways in which at large the mainstream anti violence movement, so not just in the context of higher education, but at large, had really aligned itself with carceral or punitive structures and practices and starting to think about the ways that we in higher education have done mimic some of those systems that are outside of higher education. So I will say when we talk about carcerality, we talk about logics or practices of control, of punishment, and surveillance, and how those practices have become really integrated with, again, mainstream anti sexual violence work and also in the context of higher education.

Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:11:04]: And so for me, that's kind of when I started learning about these, these frameworks and how they might be applied into the context of my work in higher education, doing violence prevention work and how maybe these frameworks might in particular serve the needs of minoritized survivors as students of color, queer and trans survivors, survivors with disabilities. And so that's a little bit about kind of my journey into this. And then as I continue to work with students and engage in research, I found more and more of the ways that, again, especially minoritized survivors, we're talking about often say things like, I don't want to see the person who harmed me punished. I just want them to stop. I want them to stop what they're doing. I don't want them to hurt me or to hurt anyone else. And the ways in which they are talking about whether or not they're using the language of anti carcerality or logics of surveillance control punishment, but they're really speaking about their needs as being outside of these systems that we have, have created. So the last thing I'll say is a little bit around the title.

Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:12:04]: So we use the phrase, I think it's oh, it's an I always want to make a point to say that we use the phrase thinking like an abolitionist because I think it's important that, instead of using a phrase like abolition, to end so we we use that thinking like an abolitionist to to try to, to name that true abolition would require abolishing higher education as we know it. And so we really want to be cautious around how, we're use we're talking about employing these frameworks, that scholars and organizers have have created and developed for years that, to not be appropriating that into the context of higher education, but rather thinking about what are the the larger overarching lessons, and ways of being and doing that we might be able to bring into our work. And so that's where kind of that phrase thinking like an abolition comes in.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:57]: You mentioned carcerality a couple of times. It's also a big theme in the book. Now I think from my conduct officer hat and my deputy title nine coordinator hat, I would think of it more of a retributive framework or align with retributive justice as opposed to restorative justice, which is something that we've been kind of moving towards in higher education for a long time, looking at harm and repair versus crime and punishment and institutions being stuck in systemic structures that require a crime and punishment model in order to be in compliance with what the government has required from us historically. And so it's an interesting tension between that community aspect, that healing aspect for what survivors need and and also what respondents and perpetrators might need in order to change behavior in many circumstances. But I also wanna dig into your definition of abolitionist because I like the way that you frame it in the book. We historically think of abolition as the absence of something, which you reference right up top in that chapter. But I'm gonna read this quote here. And while abolition is certainly abolishing harmful practices, we also subscribe to Ruth Wilson Gilmore's idea that abolition is about presence, not absence.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:03]: We believe that by working together to build what we need to thrive, we can build futures that do not include surveillance, control, punishment, and policing. We work in a higher education environment where these things are quite common and quite present, especially kind of the monitoring, the control and monitoring of how universities, have managed sexual misconduct in the past. And I would say a lot of that was earned by watching institutions not handle these as well as they could over the course of time. But now we're in a bit of a different space where the government is taking, swiftly different actions. We're recording this in April of twenty twenty five, so we don't really know what the future of Title nine, the Clery Act, Campus Save, VAWA, what those look like in the next session and what might happen through executive order. But one of the things you all focus on is systemic change in the way that we handle these things in higher education. Can you talk a little bit more about what an ideal approach would look like in terms of a campus community?

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:15:05]: So I think you covered a lot there, and I definitely don't wanna speak for Nadeeka or Chris. But I will say, I think what really, like, a major theme of our book is that higher education is so compliant in white supremacy culture, which connects and leads to the carcerality and the lack of community. Like, I directly believe we can blame white supremacy culture for the lack of community and even I feel like what's been taken from us because we've inherited such an oppressive world is how to even build community in true ways. And when fear and being fear of difference and not being able to connect across difference and understand how we are all more similar than not, and that not being something that's taught like, you know, we study education. I work with my k through 12 colleagues. We have created a system to keep us oppressed so that we can be compliant and easily controlled. I get really impatient when we don't, especially as student affairs, practitioners because, like, our whole field was birthed out of meeting a need. When we act like what is created, what we inherited can't be destroyed and recreated.

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:16:24]: It's not natural. Someone created it. And we know the history. We know why it was created and to what end. And it wasn't to liberate us. It wasn't to educate us. But inherently, learning is free. Like, just as a human, we come to learn.

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:16:41]: Like, anyone can learn. You don't need a system of higher education to learn. Now we're in that dissonance. And so we talk a lot about dissonance in the book, and that's why we say thinking like an abolitionist because until we can fortify community, we can't build the future we need. And so for me, community, true community on campus would look like, first and foremost, campuses recognizing the communities they've taken over and just doing some retribution, healing work to the land, the communities that they've destroyed, pushed out, impoverished, exploited. We need to heal that. I have a ton of scholars who do a lot of, like, participatory action research with community members and so connected to these institutions. So first, we just need to repair and heal.

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:17:31]: And then from there, we need to build fire, water, shelter, food. Before we can stop relying on the state and worrying about so much what the federal government's doing, we need to make sure we can feed ourselves, shelter ourselves, cover those basic needs in community. And I remember before a lot of our, like, black communities were decimated when people couldn't cover their rent, when people weren't eating, if you needed you know, if you were sick, like, we were living in such rich community that all of those needs were covered, but we don't have that. And even with the proximity we have on campus, because of white supremacy culture, because of the divide, like, I've been on campuses where people are choosing to sit at different lunch tables. Right? We don't want to really get to know each other outside of our obligations. And so I think, first, healing needs to occur for the pain that's happened, and then we need to meet needs, educate in a more Montessori way. Right? Like, can we focus on just being human relationships, feeding ourselves, healing, working through conflict, then we can get to what's next. Because I think in this culture of forward growth technology, we forget that we were just traumatized, COVID.

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:18:46]: Now we're being currently traumatized by the literal, like, takeover of our rights. Like, before it was so under they hid it in policies. They hid it in laws. Now it's like a direct assault on our rights broadly. And so I think they're like, we can no longer move in white supremacist thought. We can't be scared. We have to heal and meet our needs so that we don't have to rely on the state. And I believe that higher ed needs to fully relinquish itself from the state, especially federally.

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:19:18]: And even think about how are you serving the institutions and the land that you're on.

Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:19:24]: Thanks, Naya, for for all that you shared. I think the part of the question around kind of ideal approach, I think, is a little hard for me to talk about. I think partly one of the kind of abolitionist principles or values that we write about and that I know I hold is this idea of really getting local and like this thinking of Mariame Kaba uses this phrase, like, we need 1,000,000 experiments. And then there's like a whole podcast series and movie around that that concept. So I think that means that we need to be experimenting and trying and learning from our mistakes and failures and what doesn't work. And so I guess to just build a little bit on what Naya said, I think something that I wanna make sure we highlight and that is is important to kind of in my understanding of thinking like an abolitionist and what we write about in the book, but the importance of kind of this internal work and transformation. And so I think part of this is like doing everything at once in some ways, right? Like Naya is talking about really structural systemic stuff, and that is important. And also thinking about the ways in which we are engaging with, with others, the ways in which we are moving through the world.

Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:20:29]: And so thinking about one of my favorite quotes is from Adrienne Maree Brown. One of quotes this a lot, but it's from Grace Lee Boggs, but transform yourself to transform the world. And so really committing to for ourselves to be practicing accountability, to be engaging in our own healing, to be tending to our relationships, to think about the ways in which these ideas of punishment and surveillance and control show up in our own lives in the ways in which I'm whether that's in a work context or outside. Right? I am thinking about, right, how does engagement with my my partner or my friends. Right? Like, how am I bringing those those logics in that, like, white supremacy culture that Naya was talking about? How am I bringing that into my interactions in my work and then working to disrupt that? Right? Like, working in community with other folks who can tell challenge me on that. So that's not the only answer. It's just one piece, but I think a lot of that internal work and transformation is an important part of being able to really actualize. And the world that I think many of us want and to feel that liberation is that kind of internal work that doesn't have to, again, happen in isolation.

Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:21:37]: It's just it it probably happens best in community and with others, but that is really about turning inward and interrogating where are the ways that I'm bringing these harmful ways of being and ways of relating to my work and to my relationships.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:52]: You both talk about the both end of the individual and the institution of the system, meaning to have some care applied in order to get us to a place where we're able to move forward. I think this is an interesting tricky space because we're all part of the system that we're also trying to change, and sometimes it can be hard to see how to move or shift something so large when we're also inside of it. What are your thoughts on being a part of a system while also trying to change that system and actively participating and also fighting against at the same time?

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:22:26]: I think Nadeeka really touched on a lot of it. It's that you you have to first be doing at all times. It's a continuous you have to be in continuous process of healing and holding yourself in a critical self accountable place. And I think the other piece to that would be making sure you know your values and know when they shift, know your capacity. Like, you have to be so self aware because in any given day in these systems, in these relationships, while we're not free, you never know what will be asked or exploited from you. And when we continue to let that spirit murdering occur, we don't have the capacity to create. We don't have the capacity to support that initiative towards liberation. And so I think it's really balanced.

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:23:18]: I remember hearing Angela Davis speak, and she's one of the abolitionist thinkers of my heart. And she really was like, we need like, everyone can't do everything at once. Like, sometimes your goal right now in this is to heal, especially too if you aren't taking space to heal and really meet your own individual needs, have the capacity to do more. And so I think first, especially after just the collective trauma we've been experiencing before anything else, we're in crisis mode. Like, I was trained as a clinician. Whenever you go into these very crisis has just occurred. We're not worrying about big structures yet. I'm just trying to get people fed.

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:23:56]: I'm trying to make sure that they're warm, that they feel secure. You know? And I'm tearing up thinking about it because it breaks my heart that we even have to talk about this, that this has been so trained out of us. But I think part of it is balance, values, really knowing what you can and cannot do, and not taking those, like, grassroots interactions as not as not being as transformative as they are. In white supremacy culture, we wanna focus on, like, big solutions, big policies, big change. But I know just creating safe healing space for a student, for a colleague, for anyone, that that's where transformation occurs. And so I think to Nadeca's point about grassroots all the time, we can't take for granted those, like, moment to transform and really show up in those values that we need a model for the new world that we wanna create. Like, we have to be the model of those things. We have to courageously show up as we want to be, not as we were taught to be in this oppressive state.

Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:24:57]: Yeah. The only thing I'll add is something that I really Naya is a person who's really, I think, helped me to understand this in a more deeper, richer way. But this understanding that we all have our own unique gifts and strengths, and that point Naya was just making her own, like, we all can't do everything, and we shouldn't. Right? We should be actually bringing to the world, to our work, to our relationships, to ourselves, the specific gifts that we bring. Right? Artists, caretakers, healers, educators, thinkers, writers. So there's this this quote I'll share from the book that Naya wrote. So this is Naya's writing. I understand that as an individual, my power would exist in helping transform as many spirits as I could through counseling, education, caretaking, scholarship, and art.

Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:25:41]: And so I just really love that because I think for so many years, I felt like I needed to be to think of myself as someone who's engaging in change work. I needed to be doing all of the things and showing up in spaces and doing things that didn't align with my strengths. And, in fact, I think we need to be creating space for ourselves and for each other to use those gifts and those strengths and to bring those to work, like, in going back to your question, right, to working within systems. So that's the only I I just wanted to add that piece as well.

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:26:12]: Yeah. Just to I'm sorry to add to that piece. Because ideally, we're supposed to be living in abundance so that, like, we're able to just move in our strengths. One thing I don't think we wrote about yet and people don't know, we modeled these things in writing the book. So, like, the approach we took in writing the book, we very much held ourselves accountable to the values and, like, to what we were asking people to do themselves. So I just think that's really important to name. And I really am like, I honor the work that we did, and I really honor having Chris and Adika in this, like, coalition against oppression because we really do show up in our strengths and support each other in that. And you don't see it, but that's one of the main things we focused on in writing.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:57]: One of the things that you all do beautifully in the writing is researcher positionality. It's both at the beginning and the end of the book as well as sprinkled throughout, and there are also many autoethnographic pieces that tie into the research. So there's some wonderful nuggets that I won't spoil in advance for our listeners who want to go pick it up. But what I definitely appreciate is that we know who you are as authors. I think so many times when we read books that are kind of making more or less subject subjective claims are presented as objective, and I think you do a very good job of letting us know where you're coming from and the assumptions you're making as authors, as well as the assumptions that you're asking readers to make, before they read the work. So I wanna give my appreciation for you in that. One point that you make that's very strong is that when we exist in a culture of compliance, we are also taking away resources from prevention, which ultimately is the goal of addressing sexual violence and sexual misconduct on campuses anyway. We're trying to free or liberate, to use your language, liberate our campuses from acts of violence of all kinds, whether they be sexual violence or physical violence or other types of violence that show up in community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:07]: And you assert that healing is a number one way of doing that or a strong way of doing that both in individual and community spaces. Would you mind kind of sharing with us what that could look like in practice for someone who's reading the book and going, okay. I am with you in spirit. I anchor to these principles, but I don't know what that would mean to have it activated in the space.

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:28:28]: I think one idea is to first I always have, like, student think of myself. Where are you positioned? And the later chapter the later chapters, we talk about knowing sort of what's in your locus of control. So I think it really depends on where you're doing this work and knowing that you have multiple roles within the work. And so I feel like some people who are like, well, I'm working in Title IX. I'm in compliance. This is how I feed myself. Right? And so this is also, like, I want us to, like, be pulling apart how this is all intentional. Like, it's easy for us to comply when we have to maintain our needs on the compliance itself, like, on these roles.

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:29:13]: And so thinking about ways that you're being preventative maybe outside of your role or in conjunction with your role, but it really does depend on the positionality. So sometimes it's hard to give, like, a direct, like, answer if I don't know that person's role. But if I were to give an example, I would think about if I'm coming in working as, like, the director of the prevention office, I would be looking at incoming students and students who have already shown like, we can tell through the literature who might be at risk for causing harm based on, like, showing lack of empathy, past past history of harm, certain aggression, like, certain respect like, certain things that come up already relationally. Like, how are we intervening with those folks as soon as we know those things? So I would be thinking of, like, preventative workshops, infusing relational conflict, managing distressing emotions. We don't teach people these things. So for me, if I was doing prevention work, I would be thinking in that lens. But if I was in title nine, I might be thinking about, okay, how can I pull in literature that's saying exactly what I think and know would be more holistic here to then, like, make the points that I wanna make? So sometimes you have to be really strategic in your position, but I really do think it depends on your position and what you have the power to do. And it always doesn't have to be happening in that role.

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:30:39]: But sometimes I've done organizing work with students outside of my role just as a human. So we can get really creative to maneuver around the system.

Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:30:49]: Yeah. I think I've had the really amazing opportunity to talk to practitioners in a lot of different capacities in anti sexual violence work, particularly in the context of research. And there are so many folks doing really incredible, I would say, healing work, right, with, like, Nya is saying, within and sometimes outside of their role using, I think, this idea of compliance as instead of it as the ceiling, but as the floor. So we're, yeah, sure. I'm complying. I'm checking the, you know, the things that my institution is, has asked of me given the kind of federal and larger context that we're in. And I'm also meeting the needs of the student in front of. I am, there's so many folks who are working with respondents to really do some of that that work that Naya was just talking about of building empathy, understanding why they're causing harm, really doing that.

Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:31:37]: I would say, like, student development work, right, that is direct prevention work. There's so many title nine folks across kind of that I've talked to and met that, right, are thinking about all of the different constraints that they're holding, right, and still working to meet the the healing needs of the student in front of them even within, right, these systems and constraints that they're working in. And so I think I think it really goes back to some of the the things that we were talking about earlier. Right? Like, really centering in our values. Right? Knowing what our lines are. Right? Like, knowing what we are willing to do and not do. Getting creative. Right? Coming back to our specific strength, coming back to community and the networks that we have.

Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:32:16]: So we do in the book offer some, some like more specific, like practices, like healing around healing, around contemplative practices, and internal work. And so there's some kind of healing activities or modalities that we offer, but those are just some, I would say, a handful of the kind of creative and really imaginative and dreaming things that folks are already doing. And I think some of the work is around making connections and having conversations and also being cautious again, not upholding one particular thing as kind of a best practice that should be applied across all institutions, but rather really learning from kind of the lessons and the underlying strategies and approaches that folks are using. And I think that's one of the things that the three of us, I know, hope that our current and, you know, future research also aims to do that to really uplift what folks are currently doing.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:04]: You also ask readers to ask their institutions some hard questions throughout the book, which is, I think, part of that abolitionist thinking that you're bringing forward. How are we thinking about the systems and structures that we're upholding, and are they really serving the institution? Are they serving the community members within the institution? We unfortunately are short on time to continue this dialogue, but it's so rich in terms of the read. So, again, please make sure that you go check out Thinking Like an Abolitionist to End Sexual Violence in Higher Education. We are on to our theme questions for the season, which again is the past, present, and future of student affairs. So I have one question on each theme. Starting with the past, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively to let go of?

Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:33:53]: I can share this first because it was actually kind of just what I was give a little sneak peek in my last answer, but I think really keeping our focus on student development. I feel like really coming back to centering student development in anti violence work. And I see that as a direct form of a primary prevention and of engaging in healing work. And so I think that centering in our kind of the student development expertise and perspective that student affairs practitioners and the profession bring.

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:34:22]: To that, I would say, you know, and it's such an interesting question because of how our institutions were created and to what end. But student affairs was birthed out of, like, a need. Right? Like, we were like, you know what? We need a bit more to make this buff right. And I just love that energy. Like, I love that energy of what can make this better. And I wish that we would just get back to some of that, some of that creativity, that fluidity, that let's just go do it, meet a need, and figure it out along the way. We built a whole profession just from meeting a need. And so I wish that we would let fear go and remember our roots and listen to what students need and what our communities need right now and and our capacity meet those needs.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:05]: Moving into the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs?

Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:35:09]: That is a question, especially when higher education as a whole is experiencing so much precarity and uncertainty and questions about the the future, I guess, and and our present. But I think one thing that is actually kind of exactly what Naya was was just speaking about, but I I do I have heard and seen folks, right, like, getting creative, using their full gifts and resources and networks to meet the needs. Like, that's the language I was gonna use of the students in front of them. And so I think in amidst all of the larger context, there are definitely folks in this field who are in alignment with their values, are are getting creative to to serve the students that are in front of them.

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:35:51]: Yeah. This is hard for me to answer only because I'm very upset with our collective response. And so I'll talk about what's going on at the grassroots level. But I think right now at the grassroots level, there are people who recognize, like, we cannot continue as business as usual. We must heal. Like, now is the time to heal and strategize. Like, we're not safe. And so I think that right now what's happening is the people on the ground who recognize we can't just continue with the status quo, and we have to heal and really be creative.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:22]: And looking towards the future, in an ideal world, what does the field need to do to thrive towards the future?

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:36:28]: I think we have to do a lot, but I really do believe it starts first with ridding ourselves collectively of this idea that, like, we need to be punished and that doing harm will ever meet any need. In one situation scene where, like, harm has met a need. I know there's even some research on if you pop a child's hand, like, if they're gonna, like, touch a burning stove, like, that's okay. But you could even gently grab that. You know, like, I just feel like there's always a way outside of harm. And at first, we have to do, like, our own individual and then collective work to recognize why are we okay with championing this and how do we release it from ourselves. Like, I don't believe that I live in a world where, like, war is okay. Like, we're killing other people for land and resources.

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:37:13]: We're not better than that. We are. So that's my hope for the future.

Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:37:17]: Yeah. I think, really, it's something that is, again, really present throughout the book, something we've talked about in this conversation, but moving beyond just compliance. Right? Like, using, again, compliance is kind of that floor rather than the ceiling in our work as a field, and particularly in the context of anti sexual violence work. But I think we're seeing in general at broad in higher education, the kind of challenges with compliance and over compliance and preemptive compliance. And so I think really transformation and, again, addressing the needs of our students really requires moving beyond compliance to to think about what they're actually asking for, what they actually need for their healing and their learning and their growth.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:57]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:03]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. Each year at the NASPA annual conference, the NASPA Foundation recognizes a series of distinguished individuals who have served as leaders, teachers, and scholars in student affairs in higher education. Each individual is nominated and supported for designation as a pillar by colleagues, students, friends, and others who find them deserving of this honor. If selected as a pillar, the nominator and selected foundation board member will raise $3,500 in the name of the individual being nominated to further research and scholarship in student affairs. The NASPA Foundation's Pillar of the Profession award honors members of the profession who have provided significant service to NASPA through regional and or national leadership roles within the association and have created a lasting impact on the institutions or organizations at which they have worked, leaving a legacy of extraordinary service recognized by a cross section of institutional and organizational stakeholders and or have demonstrated sustained lifetime professional distinction in the field of student affairs and or higher education. The nominations for the pillar of the profession are open and are due by 06/06/2025. If you are interested in nominating someone, I would highly encourage you to go to the NASPA Foundation website at NASPA.org.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:32]: There is a video presentation and a slide deck that will explain to you more about what a successful nomination packet looks like, and you can get a better sense of what the expectation is. This is a great way to be able to recognize people in the profession that have done amazing things, and I highly encourage you to think about someone that you will want to that you would want to nominate as a pillar of the profession. The twenty twenty five NASPA conferences on student success in higher education is happening June 27 through June 30 in Denver, Colorado. The NASPA conferences on student success in higher education is a convergence of three conferences in one registration. The conferences offer outstanding professional development opportunities that will shape your learning experiences. This conference is designed to engage professionals in critical discussions about in critical discussions and strategies around assessment planning and data analytics, dismantling systemic barriers to student success, and first generation student success. Each track will address the unique challenges and opportunities within these fields, equipping attendees with actionable insights to enhance institutional effectiveness, promote equity, and foster student achievement. This is a space for collaboration, innovation, and the exchange of best practices across higher education, focusing on the student experience from a data informed equity centered perspective.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:54]: This conference offers a platform for professionals who are committed to advancing equity, fostering student success, and using data driven strategies to enhance the higher education experience for all students. Whether your focus is on assessment, dismantling barriers, or first generation success, you'll find resources, insights, and a community of like minded professionals at the SSHE conference. The regular registration deadline for this conference ends on June 4, so you still have some time to be able to get in to the conference at the regular registration rate, and then late registration goes from June 5 to 06/27/2025. Find out more on the NASPA website. Finally, today, there is a new step by step course called conducting sexual misconduct climate surveys, a step by step course. This is a live web event in partnership with Rankin Climate. NASPA is providing a comprehensive course to meet the needs that colleges have to be able to understand how to develop these important climate surveys. This course will guide you and your team through a step by step process and will provide you with a blueprint for institutions that choose to administer a survey using only in house resources or minimal external assistance, culminating in participants building their own climate assessment plan.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:16]: This training builds a foundation for further data collection and assessment strategies, including general climate surveys and analysis of internal sexual mix sexual misconduct case data and the programmatic assessment to measure the impact of the effects of the efforts you and your colleagues are conducting to move the needle on the indicators on the indications from your overarching community survey work. Again, the live sessions for this begin on June 11, but this is there are three live sessions from June 11, on June 11 from one to 3PM eastern, June eighteenth from one to three eastern, and June 25 from one to three eastern. Find out more about this great course in the online learning community, in the NASPA online learning community. You can reach that by going to learning.NASPA.org. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:42]: Where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:31]: Chris, thank you so much for sharing what's going on in and around NASPA and another lovely and informative NASPA world. And, Nadeeka and Naya, we are here with our lightning round. I have seven questions for you in about ninety seconds. You both ready to go?

Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:44:45]: Yes. Yes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:46]: Question one. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:44:51]: Cuff It by Beyonce.

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:44:52]: It would probably be some young nudie. I can't think of a title on the spot.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:56]: Number two. When you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:45:00]: I think a teacher.

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:45:01]: I wanted to be a Spice Girl. Which

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:02]: Spice Girl?

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:45:03]: Well, see, I was like a in between scary, sporty, posh.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:06]: So number six. Spice Girl number six. I love it. Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:45:13]: That's so hard. I will just shout out doctor Krista Porter. I've been really thinking about her lately. She's also making some serious moves in her own career, and it's been amazing to watch, but that's hard to pick the most, but she has been on my mind and heart lately.

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:45:26]: Yeah. The most is hard because I really have a community of scholars who hold me down. I I would say right now, I'm thinking of one of my peer mentors, doctor Shonda Breeden. She is just an exemplar for me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:40]: Number four, your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:45:43]: The book that just came into my brain was What It Takes to Heal by Prentiss Hemphill, which is an incredible, incredible book that I think every human would benefit from, including Sunifer's book.

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:45:54]: I'm shamelessly plugging our book. It's brilliant, and you need to read it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:57]: Can you title it again, Naya?

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:45:59]: Thinking Like an Abolitionist in Sexual Violence in Higher Education.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:03]: Number five, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:46:06]: I just finished, and it's very relevant to this conversation, I just finished the Sex Lives of College Girls on HBO. Not, like, necessarily the best, but it's it's a really good show. And I just, yesterday, finished the the whole series.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:19]: Showrunner, Minnie Kaling, I think. Right?

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:46:21]: Yes. I just finished Severance season two. I now know what the GOATs were for. So

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:27]: Alright. Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:46:31]: I think mine is How to Survive the End of the World, which is by Adrienne Maree Brown and her sister, Autumn Brown.

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:46:38]: Everyone knows this about me, but one of my character flaws is I I don't listen to podcasts. It's something with my neurodivergence. I just I can't listen to them. I can't listen to audiobooks. It's a thing. But I can read the transcripts, so I haven't been binging any podcasts, sadly.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:54]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:46:58]: I think a huge shout out to doctor Chris Linder who couldn't be here with us, but is always with us in spirit whenever we're talking about these things.

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:47:06]: Yes. I would second that. Shout out to doctor Chris Linder for bringing this just incredible work to life, and I really appreciate her strength. She's just an action oriented person. Like, what she sets her mind to, she gets done. And we really need people like that towards liberation. So thank you, Chris.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:26]: And after our show airs and after our colleagues have read the book, if they'd like to join you in dialogue, how can they find you?

Dr. Nadeeka Karunaratne [00:47:33]: You could go. I have a website that has my contact info. It's nadikak.com and has my email and everything.

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:47:39]: And you can find me on the Morgan University website. My academic email is there. I'm also available on LinkedIn.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:48]: Well, Naya, Nadeka, it's been a joy getting to speak with you and learn about your perspectives and, of course, your book. Please thank Chris for her contribution to the work as well, and thank you both so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Dr. Niah Grimes [00:48:00]: Thank you. Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:07]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners, and we continue to be grateful that you spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at SAvoices@NASPA.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and please leave us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really helps other student affairs professionals find our show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:46]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

View Details

In the most recent episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, recorded at the 2024 NASPA Annual Conference in New Orleans, host Dr. Jill Creighton invites us into a vibrant tapestry of real stories from practitioners at every level of higher education. The episode centers around a powerful question: Can you share a moment or experience in student affairs that you feel embodies the spirit of this profession? The result is a chorus of voices revealing the deep, often unseen impact student affairs professionals have on their campuses and on each other.

From directors and deans to graduate students just starting their journey, one theme rings clear: student affairs is about people. Stories of mentorship, community, and personal growth abound. Many professionals recounted full-circle moments—guiding undergraduates, only to see them return years later as colleagues or even scholars in the field. Listening in, you’ll hear how those simple, day-to-day interactions—a word of encouragement, honest conversation, or helping hand in crisis—can change a student’s path or even their life.

Community and connection surface as vital throughlines. The NASPA conference itself becomes a symbol—a place where hugs, laughter, and candid discussions help professionals recharge, collaborate, and remember why this work matters. There’s a raw honesty, too: several speakers acknowledge the unique challenges facing higher education today. Yet, in the face of adversity, they highlight the unwavering spirit of resilience, support, and advocacy that defines student affairs.

Listeners will also appreciate the emphasis on equity, inclusion, and the holistic development of students. Whether it’s empowering first-generation scholars, supporting students in crisis, or building bridges across functional areas, the profession’s commitment to fostering belonging and success shines bright.

What elevates this episode is its authenticity. These are not scripted testimonials: they're person-on-the-street interviews, each voice echoing with genuine passion and care—for students and for one another. It’s an episode that will remind you of your “why,” whether you’re a new grad or a seasoned pro.

If you’re seeking inspiration, camaraderie, or simply a reminder of the everyday magic in student affairs, tune in to this episode. It’s a celebration of the profession’s heart—and a call to keep showing up, for our students and for each other.

Listen now and let these stories rejuvenate your passion for student affairs!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:44]: We asked you, can you share a moment or experience in student affairs that you feel embodies the spirit of this profession? Once again, thank you so much if you shared your voice with us today. And for those of you who are unable to attend annual conference, we hope that these three episodes plus our three interviews from the conference gave you a bit of a taste of what was going on, in New Orleans. And if you were at the conference, we hope that this reenergizes you and brings you some of that joy and passion that we get when we are able to be together in community. Thanks so much, and enjoy your conversations.

Eileen Hentz [00:01:14]: Hello. My name is Eileen Hentz. I am the program director of academic and student services at the University of Maryland Department of Aerospace Engineering celebrating sustaining student affairs profession. I think a moment that I can remember that I feel embodies the spirit of the profession is just through mentoring. I remember meeting a student their very first semester as a first year student and not knowing they'd had no idea what they wanted to do or where they wanted to go. And I'm kind of working with them all throughout their time as an undergraduate student. And at some point, they kind of recognized that they wanted to do something that I did. They wanted to go into student affairs, and now they have gone through both their master's program.

Eileen Hentz [00:01:50]: They have really done a fantastic job with their work, and they're now even a PhD student going all the way through with their PhD in student affairs. And we have been in contact every single moment of the way, and I'm really proud of them. And they've, you know, of course, said thank you to me for helping them find their way professionally, but I really, really put a lot of things in them because they are exactly what helps make me feel passionate and excited about doing the work that we do. We're certainly a team in student affairs.

Dr. Alyssa Bivens [00:02:23]: Hi. I'm doctor Alyssa Bivens. I'm representing George Mason University. I'm in their very new graduate division as a graduate career and professional development program coordinator. I'm still pretty new to the profession, but in working with some of my graduate professional assistants, seeing them improve on something that I've mentored them in and and seeing actual growth, I think, is one of the one of the reasons we do this, is seeing that incremental growth in the students around us.

Amerette Renieri [00:02:54]: I'm Anurant Ranieri. I'm from Texas A and M University in College Station, Texas. I am currently serve as the associate director of career services for Mays Business School. This is one's a hard one. I've been in the profession now for almost twelve years, and I think, honestly, NASPA has really brought me a lot of joy because I've been able to connect with professionals from all over the all over the, like, country and really finding a space where while I work in career services, I very much identify as a student affairs practitioner in a career services space. Whereas a lot of career services people identify more on the career services side, but I very much view my job as a student affairs educator in a career services world.

Amy Law [00:03:34]: Hello. My name is Amy Law. I am a GAP from the graduate associate program with NASPA. I am from California. I currently attend the University of Southern California for my degree in post secondary administration and student affairs with my master's program. I actually, like, just ran into my undergraduate student affairs mentorship team with enough program with NASPA here at the NASPA annual conference. And I had not seen them since undergrad, but I got into the field of student affairs in undergrad. And so now as a master's student, being here as a annual conference intern, being in this space as a graduate associate as well, it is such so full circle to see the people that contributed to where I am standing here today in this role.

Amy Law [00:04:23]: And I feel like that is what embodies this profession so much because this profession has so much mentorship, so much guidance and support that we don't even realize it until you're standing in this position looking at the people who who had a hand in bringing you here today.

Angela Watts [00:04:39]: Angela Watts, the University of Texas Health Science Center in San Antonio School of Nursing. I'm the director for student success. This may be not a very original answer, but for me, commencement is always one of those moments where I am not only proud of the students, but I feel rejuvenated. And because oftentimes, you know the struggles that students have gone through to be able to make it to the point where they're crossing that stage. I mean, you see their families and their friends so excited for them. And so I think that those are moments where I feel like my work has made a difference in someone's life. And not only in their lives, but often in their family's lives and the trajectory of future generations of their families.

James Quisenberry [00:05:21]: Asia Jones, associate director at the National Association for Student Affairs Professionals, AKA NASPA. My defining moment in my experience in student affairs was when I came to NASPA. Working on college campuses for the last ten years was great. And I was worried when I first came because I was such a student friendly person. Like, how was I gonna be able to do that work and not be in the face of students? And what defined me is to see that I can do this work, and I'm doing it at a greater and broader level that flows down to the students that create retention and graduation programs for students to be able to excel. And so that has really helped define me that no matter where I go in student affairs, I can find my mission and get it done.

Dr. Bernard Little [00:06:07]: I'm doctor Bernard Little, vice president for student affairs at Prairie State College. A moment or experience in in student affairs that embodies the spirit of this profession, I would say one of the best experiences that I've had is attending the new VPSA Institute. And coming from a community college, I was a little nervous about, right, what that would be for me, given I was in the room with some heavy hitters. And it was truly a remarkable experience because I was embraced and was able to really lean into professionals who were not only feeding me, but also learning from me as well. And I think that's just really what student affairs is about. It's just not about the show, really about truly, people and how we can help one another on this journey that we're in together.

Camden Doolittle [00:06:52]: My name is Camden Doolittle. I use they and them pronouns. I'm coming to you from the NASPA annual conference in New Orleans, but I am from the University of California Davis in the Sacramento region of California. I think a lot of things two things that stand out to me. One is being consistent. Showing up every day, every month, every year over a career and standing for what you believe in as that evolves and changes. And I think that's that's excellence and that's the spirit of what we do and who we are. And I think the other piece is just resilience.

Camden Doolittle [00:07:23]: I went to undergrad at the University of San Diego, a Catholic institution, and I was there right as we were talking about what does it mean to be gender expansive in a Catholic setting. And we put on a drag show and kind of talked about what does it mean to celebrate gender expression. And there was a lot of pushback because it was change. And so it's how do we engage change. And I think that doing that drag show over three to four years really embodied that for me, and that's the spirit I try to bring in my career. That was ten years ago now, but it still stays with me.

David Zemoyski [00:07:57]: I'm Charles.

Speaker K [00:07:58]: I think if you just look at this conference I did a pre conference yesterday at the Black and African Men's Summit, and there's so many people who are going through the same things everywhere, but we're finding ways to support each other. And I think that's probably the most important thing for me, just finding that community and supporting each other. It doesn't even have to be someone in your school. You gotta find someone, a way that you can just unpack and talk about the things at your that's happened at your university or in your everyday life that you can be unfiltered with.

Jessica [00:08:33]: My name is Jessica. I think it's important for conferences like this and other student affairs profession conference for us to connect and network because we are going through similar things either on the state or federal surface. And so it's really important for us to have those connections and making sure that we can lean on each other, whether you are from the East Coast, the West Coast, Canada, Mexico. Higher education impacts us all. And so it's always nice to bounce ideas

Clarissa Lau [00:09:01]: off one another as well.

Chris Hall [00:09:04]: Hi. I'm Chris Hall. I'm the director of residence life and student housing at Georgetown University Law Center. I would say that daily we have moments in student affairs that embody the spirit of this profession, whether that be something as simple as just helping somebody out, with a simple question that they may have or figuring out a very complex challenge and finding the solution to yes rather than they trying to get to no. I think that's one thing that we believe in very much is how do you get to yes. I think if we keep that and embrace that as a concept, we can do really well for our students.

Clarissa Lau [00:09:37]: I am Clarissa Lau. My pronouns are she and her, and I work at the University of Toronto. I work a lot with student data, and I also work a lot with student staff trying to understand student data. And I remember very fondly moments when I was actually leading a set of focus groups with staff, trying student data to improve. And hearing their excitement about that, not only did they share about experiences of how they engage students to understand their student data, but then as well as how they personally feel revitalized, empowered in their work, I think that was a real highlight for me.

Speaker O [00:10:18]: My name is Dan Maxwell. I serve as the interim vice president for student success and student life at the University of Houston downtown. I think the way that can sustain and celebrate student affairs is, again, this is about reaching not only our students where they are, but it's also about reaching our staff and our individual staff members where they are and helping them to embrace the moment, think about the future, and have some patience as we navigate sometimes these turbulent waters that we're in.

Speaker P [00:10:47]: Dan Balchak, interim dean of students at Harvard Graduate School of Arts and Sciences. Sharing a moment, I can tell you when I was a RA as an undergrad, there was an RD there who I became very good friends with, got very involved with NASPA, was a NASPA president at one point, got me involved with NASPA. I've done a lot of stuff with NASPA, and to me, that's part of the profession, how we mentor young people, we work with young people, and we hopefully learn well.

Speaker Q [00:11:14]: Hello. My name is David Chow. I am currently the chair of the technology knowledge community for NASPA. So the moment in experience that's that I really cherish almost every year is attending the NASPA conference. It's a time for me to recharge and just remind myself why I believe in student affairs as a profession and the energy, it just nudges me and just helps keep me going.

Dr. Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:11:33]: My name

Speaker S [00:11:33]: is David Zemoyski. I'm senior associate dean of students at Boston University. The most recent example for me is the moment I learned that Betty Simmons is receiving this year's Fred Turner award for outstanding service to NASPA and that Maureen Keefe is receiving the Scott Goodnight award for outstanding performance as a dean. To me, they're two friends and colleagues I have enormous respect and affection for, and what a great moment for the association and the foundation to recognize excellence in this way.

Speaker T [00:12:04]: I am doctor Deborah Wright, and I am with the George Washington University in Washington, DC. I love to think about times when students come in to our organizations, to our institutions where they are, for example, first generation students or other students don't have support in helping them navigate college. And as student affairs professionals, we do what we do best, help students gain connection and belonging. We do that well during our orientation programs and just finding ways to especially engage them so that they can feel part of our university communities and cultures.

David Zemoyski [00:12:33]: Hi. My name is Diedra Cobb, and I am from Fairmont State University in West Virginia, and I am the student success coordinator. I was hired under the title three grant with the intentions of being, first and foremost, a bridge between academic affairs and student affairs along with other responsibilities such as forming a student success support team and also overseeing a student ambassador program called the student empowerment liaisons. I'm actually hired under academic affairs, but my office is in the student affairs area. So I get to interact with a lot of student affairs professionals as well as academic affairs professionals. So I think that is very important to be able to collaborate and communicate across departments. But I also think one of the best things that has come out of this grant, and embodies the spirit of the profession is actually having that student ambassador program, the SELs, or student empowerment liaisons, because it's a way of having a liaison between the students and administration to get the students' perspective. And absolutely enjoy working with those students and have learned a lot from them, probably as much as they have learned from me.

Dr. Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:13:53]: Hello, everyone. My name is Eddie Martinez. I serve as the associate dean for student affairs at Suffolk County Community College. When I go to NASPA annual conferences and I walk from one place to the other and you just watch all of the hugs, the kisses, and the deep conversations, the light conversations. People from all over the world who just gather one time a year and it is what gives me the goosebumps. It's what gives me joy to come to annual conference every year and just hug people, have conversations, and truly commiserate sometimes and appreciate each other. That's the spirit of our profession, and NASPA provides that venue for us to do it.

Speaker V [00:14:37]: My name is Ellie McMillan. I'm the graduate apprentice at the Center for Leadership in Elon University. I use sheher pronouns, and I'm a graduate student in the Master of Art in Higher education program at Elon. So a moment that I feel really embodies this profession is actually something at the NASBA conference. So yesterday, we were kind of going to a opening night reception over at Mardi Gras World, and I actually got to introduce my graduate supervisor with my undergraduate supervisor. And it was just a really, like, full circle moment for me. And I'm originally from the Northeast, So I also was encouraged to move down south for graduate school by my dean of students. And it was really powerful because I actually got to see him again and be like, hey, I'm here, and I'm successful and I'm loving graduate school, in the South.

Speaker V [00:15:35]: And so just reconnecting with everyone at graduates at my undergrad institution and having kind of my grad school and undergrad school connect, has been really, really special for me.

Speaker W [00:15:48]: Erica Stocks, director of student affairs at Boston University's Henry m Goldman School of Dental Medicine. I think honestly, like, starting, getting involved in a gaps. I mean, this year, I feel like I'm coming full circle because 2015 was my first NASPA conference. It was here in New Orleans, so I feel like I'm back. And it was really where I found, like, a really professional home and really welcoming individuals. And I think that's kind of the spirit of student affairs, right, is we're all welcoming. We wanna interact with students, but also, you know, supporting each other in the work that we do. It can be taxing at times.

Speaker W [00:16:17]: It can be draining and particularly in graduate and professional student affairs where sometimes you might be the only person in that office or the only person in the department. So you need that kind of community and it may not be at your institution. It may be within sort of a larger professional organization. So I think that one in particular for me because I was coming by myself as a new professional, and I was like, I don't know any of these people, but everyone was really welcoming. And then I have sort of found my professional community. While I have a a little bit of a larger team, it's still not huge in in respects to other schools. So I do tend to use my colleagues to bounce ideas off of sort of across the country, particularly because we're working on sort of the same issues and topics that come up in graduate and professional student affairs.

Speaker X [00:16:56]: I'm George McClellan, professor of higher education at the University of Mississippi. So I'm gonna tell you two stories. I was lucky enough to be in a room. There was a time when NASPA's archives, you know, at Bowling Green, was trying to interview some of the founding original student affairs greats because they were all getting older. And so they went out to capture the voices of these living folks. And so it was basically student affairs giants interviewing other student affairs giants, and I was not a giant. I don't know if I am now, but I certainly wasn't that. And so Peggy Barr said to me, she was gonna interview James Radagon.

Speaker X [00:17:30]: It was one of my favorite people. People. Passed away. Great loss to the field. Wonderful human being. Anyway, Peggy says, you can sit in a room, but you can't talk and you can't ask any questions. So I'm sitting in a room while Peggy Barr is interviewing James Radagon. And she asked him I don't remember what question was, but he started talking about he was the long time vice president of Wichita State.

Speaker X [00:17:49]: And he he was there when they lost their basketball team and a bunch of coaches in a plane crash. And decades had gone by, and he started crying. The pain continued to be real for him. And I've seen too many people stay in this business too long to the point where they lose the magic with students. And I always thought, I don't wanna be one of those people. And that day with Radegan reminded me. And And I've said since then, I never wanna be here so long that I don't cry over students. I cry when they graduate because I'm happy.

Speaker X [00:18:21]: I cry if one of them doesn't make it through. I'm a willeller. I'm a crier. But I never wanna be at a place where I don't cry about students. And and then I'll tell you the other story. So this profession brings you lots of wonderful things, meeting people like you, all the friends I've made over the years, and all of that sort of thing. But the coolest thing for me is every place I've ever been, literally every single institution, staff that have worked with me, for me, students that I've met, etcetera, to this day, they will send me little cards that'll say, hey. Just wanna let you know I had my first child.

Speaker X [00:18:54]: Wanna let you know I got this job. Wanted to let you know this, that happened. My mom died. Those cards let me know whatever else I've managed to accomplish, there's somebody out there, a real person, who knows that I care about them and that I'll want to know that news about their life.

Speaker Y [00:19:13]: Hello. My name is Hallie Vavris. I am a graduate student at Baldwin Wallace University in the leadership in higher education program here. Right now, I am working in the STEM scholars program at Baldwin Wallace University. So I am working with a woman named Cat Katie Adkins. She and I are working on writing grants for the Choose Ohio First program. And sharing a moment in that office is amazing because I used to work with a student who was hard of hearing. And this student was a STEM student, hard of hearing, and I realized that she needs a role model.

Speaker Y [00:19:48]: You know, the student was really looking for somebody who was I believe it was chemistry, and finding a role model was difficult. And I had to really use, like, my outside resources outside of the university to really do my own research, and I think that that was really a learning moment for me as a graduate student that we might not have all of the resources here at the university. You know, it's a lot of, like, brainstorming and creativity to kind of think outside the box. So what I did in that scenario was that I contacted, I believe it was the deaf hard of hearing community in Columbus. I contacted them and I was like, hey. Would you have any mentors for this student? And, you know, I kind of helped bridge that connection. And let me tell you what, that student, I believe it changed her life because she really got to see, you know, somebody who relates to her. And and then she graduated, and yeah.

Speaker Y [00:20:39]: And she is doing so well. And that really kind of helped build the connection to with her professionally.

Speaker Z [00:20:47]: I'm Jackie Yoon. I take the she series, and I serve as the executive director of the student center at at Harvard Griffin GSAS. It feels hard to talk about celebrations right now as we're in this moment in higher ed where we're having a lot of challenging days. There's, like, a little bit of occupational hazard to our work right now, but I think it's even more important during this time to think about our students. And for me, it's it's all about folks being successful and growing. And so watching students cross the stage that for commencement that had struggles in their graduate in their graduate journey, which everyone has struggles in their graduate journey. But watching a student leader really grow in their leadership identity and really work on things in their time with us, seeing student groups come together around celebration. I just, this year I was watching a Diwali event in the student center from the balcony and just the color and the dancing and the festivity and the joy and people inviting each other into each other's cultures.

Speaker Z [00:21:45]: I just feel grateful for those moments of fun and celebration. I feel lucky to work with such amazing students.

Dr, Jacob Diaz [00:21:54]: My name is Jacob Diaz. I serve as the associate vice chancellor for student success at the University of South Florida, Saint Petersburg campus. Being at the NASPA conference right now reminds me of the importance of community. And I think now it's what dropped me into the field, and I think I'm realizing now it's what sustains me is that being in community with my colleagues on my campus, my colleagues nationally and internationally helped to remind me that I'm not in this alone. And then that helps give me energy to keep doing the work that's needed.

Herbie Gibson [00:22:30]: Hi. This is James Quisenberry. I'm executive director of student affairs technology at the University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign. One of my most exciting moments being a student affairs professional is every year at our IT professionals conference on campus, where all the IT leaders and professionals come together in the fall, I host a panel for students to share their experiences with technology, and I and I bring them there, and I I actually make our IT professionals just sit and listen because we need to do a better job as technology leaders and leaders in student affairs to listen to what the experience of our students are so we can move things forward. And it and it's always great to give the students a voice, and I enjoy those moments very much.

James Stewart [00:23:18]: Hi. I'm James Stewart, associate vice president for student development and achievement at Coppin State University. You know, I think NAS conferences do that. I think that we come together in support of each other in our common experience and community. That's exactly what we want our students to do, and so I look forward to it each year. It's my chosen family in the profession.

Jamie Haney [00:23:41]: Hi. I'm Jamie Haney, associate dean for the graduate college at University of Illinois Chicago. I feel like I see a lot of small moments. You know, staff and faculty put themselves on the line every day, especially in the current day and age. And so letting students again know that we are human, and the ways that we want to support them are the ways that we wanna support everybody in the world.

Dr. Jamie Washington [00:24:06]: Hi. I'm Jamie Washington, and I am the president and founder of the Washington Consulting Group and of the Social Justice Institute Training Institute. I've seen so so much good, and being here at NASPA for me gives me an opportunity to just be reminded of how far we've come and all of the good work that's happening around all of what we do, whether that's in student health, whether that's in diversity, equity, and inclusion, and belonging, whether that's in residence life. There's so many things that in this forty first year of my professional life that I've had an opportunity to see. Just stories after stories of people coming up to me and I remember when I was a student, I was an RA and I was doing this and and now I'm doing this and, you know, and so just as I said at the beginning that we are preparing the next generation of leaders, I get to see that live in this space. So that's what it means to me.

Dr. Jeanna Mastrodicasa [00:25:03]: Hi. This is Gina Masterdecasa, Casa, and I am the director of the office of institutional assessment at the University of Florida. And I've been there for more than twenty seven years in a total of six roles. I am a student affairs professional not working in student affairs. I do work on a college campus, and I can tell you that I can pick up a conversation I haven't had in a year or two with people here at NASPA or from a out of the blue phone call or text or email and feel like I am part of something. And that is why I've remained committed to attending NASPA and being a member, but more importantly, I'm finding wonderful connections and professional development to happen.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:25:47]: Hey. My name is Josie Alquist. I use sheher pronouns. I am a digital engagement consultant, executive strategist, coach, and speaker. You know, we are at a moment that fully represents this profession to be able to be in community and connect. When we're on our campuses, it can feel so siloed and shielded in bubbles and don't forget to break out whether if that is is coming to a conference, finding someone on LinkedIn, on Instagram, pick up the phone. You are a % not alone and deserve to have other people around you.

Dr. Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:26:29]: Julie Payne Kirchmeier, sheher pronouns, vice president for student success for the Indiana University System.

Dr. Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:26:34]: That's not a system.

Dr. Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:26:35]: We can

Dr. Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:26:35]: call it a multi campus university if you would like. I'm gonna take this from the NASPA board chair space and say when COVID hit and we shut everything down, we remained supportive of each other in very specific and very broad ways, whether it was the association coming together and figuring out how we were gonna best support folks in need that were either losing their jobs or losing access to professional development funds, flipping things online, and how we worked very intentionally to bring people back together in meaningful spaces. Because as we heard Amelia say the other day, one of the best ways to get through a really difficult time is to be in community with each other and with people who care about you and know what you're experiencing. So.

Dr. Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:27:16]: So I

Dr. Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:27:16]: think about a moment that embodies the spirit of student affairs. I think back to my undergraduate experience and all the advisors I had, especially when I was, president of Kent Interhall Council at Kent State University and just what they poured into me as advisors and just having some of those tough conversations as a young man that was still pretty bold and unaware of the the world around just having some of those steering conversations. And to this day, I take that forward and think about the conversations I have to have with students, that might be still developing and growing in their maturity.

Jawan Jacobs [00:27:46]: Hey, y'all. My name is Jawan Jacobs. I am currently an assistant director in the Student Involvement and Leadership office at Duke University. Really, the one thing that comes to mind is the Undergraduate Student Conference, which is a pre conference through NASPA. I had the privilege of attending in 2021 and 2022. And truly, it is such an intentional space because I don't think that you ever really get to talk with students, particularly undergraduate students who are so invested in higher education. They're student leaders, they're really active on their campus, and they really wanna make an impact. So what does it really mean to have a dedicated space and a full day conference for those folks where we can have the candid conversations about making sure that you are prepared, but also exposing them to so many different fields and functional areas.

Jawan Jacobs [00:28:32]: We know a lot of our undergraduate students say, I am in a Greek lettered organization, so I want to go into fraternity and sorority life. And while that is great, it is so important that we are exposing our emerging professionals into what it looks like to just have variety of experiences. So really going to that conference and participating on the committee during the planning process and being able to see the intentionality behind it, I think is something that is honestly second to none. It is so intentionally done, so intentionally driven. Lots of work goes into it and then we are intentional about putting them on college campuses that are nearby where the conference is actually being held. So we are giving them a snapshot as to what it looks like to have conversations about being a graduate student, have conversations about being a professional within higher education. And I think that is so, so important because so many questions go unanswered and there are so many different ways to do things and we're just never really actually sure sometimes. The best way to steer someone when they're like, I wanna get involved in higher education.

Jawan Jacobs [00:29:30]: I wanna get involved in student affairs. So, the Undergraduate Student Conference, again, if you are listening to this right now and you have an undergraduate student, please find the means to invest in this opportunity for them. I've been able to see students attend that undergraduate student conference and then become graduate students and then serve on the undergraduate student conference committee. And now, they're full time professionals doing good the good work. Some Some of them are on doctoral programs and it really the foundation and the root of that was us being able to expose them to all of the different kinds of opportunities via the undergraduate student conference. So Go USC, has a special place in my heart and yes, go NASPO.

Kevin Willis [00:30:11]: Hi. My name is Kevin Willis. I am a membership manager with NASPA's membership team. I'm originally from Kentucky. A moment that I feel embodies the spirit of the profession is when I was a student supervisor and I got to actually work with students from freshman to senior year at my last position. And I really got to see them grow and flourish, and we got to develop a wonderful mentor mentee role where I was able to support them and help them grow and become the best versions of themselves. I actually got the chance to walk in the graduation of one of my student managers as part of the staff commencement, and I was able to see her from when I first met her as a freshman to now being a confident, amazing graduate of her institution. And that moment always sticks with me because it's the end goal.

Kevin Willis [00:30:54]: It's what we always hope to have is to get our students across the finish line. And I think for me that embodies not only the profession, but it also embodies why I went into the profession, which is to help students and support them the most.

Herbie Gibson [00:31:07]: Herbie r Gibson, sheher, associate director of residence education for student learning and leadership, Michigan State University. Shout out to the NASBA undergraduate fellows program. I am a proud alum of the program. And if it wasn't for enough, I wouldn't be the practitioner that I am today. And so the ways in which we pour into these students and mentorship and giving them opportunities to learn more about the field, the Dungey Leadership Institute. Coming to NASPA, those are just really great opportunities for people to connect and those connections are still something that I cherish today.

Dr. Laura Devoe [00:31:42]: Hi. My name is doctor Laura DeVoe, and I'm a visiting assistant professor at Boston College. The moment in student affairs that I think embodies, the profession is when we are actually the first people that students come to when they are in need. And that's what we're here for. We are here for the students. We are servant leaders, and we see that every day. And I think anyone listening to this can think of that in their own life.

Mylon Wallace [00:32:11]: My name is Lauren Zelensky. I'm the associate director for student affairs at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, Office of Graduate Studies. And a moment or experience in student affairs that embodies the spirit of this profession would definitely be my office taking over some of the orientation responsibilities of all of our graduate programs within the School of Medicine just to make sure that we are hitting all of those baseline needs for all of our students to ensure that they're receiving all of the necessary resources and information above and beyond what their program specific needs and information for orientation would be.

Marcus . [00:32:47]: My name is Marcus. I'm from Singapore, and I'm representing a social enterprise called Sojourner's Agora, but I also work in student affairs in the National University of Singapore, taking care of student life for the undergraduates. It's sometimes helpful just to see my younger self in the students whom I'm serving. It reminds me also of the many decisions and challenges that I've had to face while I was younger, but also to remember that my experiences are not all the experiences that they're facing. Now I have the opportunity to be a conduit of a whole hybrid and synergy of different stories and narratives and how can I best facilitate that information for the students whom I'm serving? So that mentoring experience really is the most fulfilling thing for me and I feel it's what keeps me going.

Mary Pat Morgan [00:33:35]: My name is Mary Pat Morgan, and I am a program coordinator with the mechatronics engineering program at the universities at Shady Grove. When we're working with students, I think the most important thing is just to connect them to resources beyond the university community to get to know the greater community and to see higher ed as an equalizer that can transform their lives and their trajectory, not just of their own lives, but that of their families, and I've seen it.

Dr. Melanie Mitchell [00:34:05]: Hello. My name is doctor Melanie Mitchell, and I have the pleasure of serving as the director of the Impact Leadership Village at North Carolina State University. A moment that comes up for me when I think about embodying the spirit of the profession is when I have seen the benefits of having an open door policy and empowering students to stop by and connect. It it helps the students see you as human and as a person that they can talk to and share what's going on for them. And so there's value in that, and I think that's something that's important. Relationship building is at the heart of what we do, and being able to have that open door policy, to engage with students really is how you meet their needs and support them where they're at.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:34:56]: Hi. I am Melinda Stoops. I am currently serving as the interim dean of students at Bay Path University, and I've been working in higher education for over twenty years at this point. From personal experience, recently, my job was eliminated back in January. And as I've worked the past couple of months in terms of transitioning to an interim role and letting people know about my change in circumstances, I I've had so many people reach out and provide support to me. Some of these people I know well that I've worked with for a number of years. Other people, I didn't know at all, and they reach out to me and just, you know, express support for me. And I think that really embodies the spirit of student affairs that as a profession, we are a bunch of helpers, and I mean in a good way, not in a way where we're walking around over helping people.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:35:46]: But I think we look at people, and we want people to thrive and to succeed, and that applies to our colleagues as well. And I have just been so amazed by the support from this community, and I think that embodies the spirit of the profession.

Melissa Aponte [00:36:01]: I am doctor Melissa Aponte. I serve as assistant dean of students at Rochester Institute of Technology. I am being overwhelmed with the memories of actually being in NOLA ten years ago when I hosted, at the time, my college's first ever alternative spring break and spending a week with our students, sharing time, doing volunteer work. And now ten years later, reflecting on where all those students have gone, some of them have pursued student affairs roles and careers. Others have gone on to do doctoral doctoral work and then also pursued giving back to the community because of some of the impacts of that trip, actually. So I think that really embodies the spirit of really connecting with students, seeing who they are individually, and helping them grow and guide them to whatever opportunities might be there for them.

Melissa Ward [00:36:55]: I am Melissa Ward. I am director of student engagement at the College of Engineering at Oregon State University. That moment for students when something clicks is my drug and why I I show up to work every single day. So whether it's they get a concept or they get the job or they get the leadership

Melissa Ward [00:37:25]: prevention outreach and education department at Michigan State University as our director for employee and graduate student programs. I think about multiple crises that are taking place. I look at what has happened in North Carolina, Florida, California with wildlife disasters. I think about hurricane responses for our campuses that are in the South. And when I see and when I learn and when I hear about these experiences, that is what embodies the best of us. When student affairs professionals are the ones that come together, support folks going through crises, provide the resources, work to get people what they need, that is what I think, is the at the heart of the student affairs profession.

Dr. Michael Sheehane [00:38:01]: Howdy. My name is Michael Sheehan. I work at Texas A and M University in career services. Specifically, I'm the director of campus programs in the career center. Been there for about fifteen years now. I've been doing this for a while. I would say, to date, it's still fascinating to me how students absolutely remember how you made them feel. And so, to date, I'll still get random emails from students that maybe I interacted with a decade or more ago, and they'll update me about where they are now and what they're doing now.

Dr. Michael Sheehane [00:38:28]: And so I think that speaks to the power of the little moments and and making sure that you understand that even though it might be a conversation that you've, as a professional, had 500 times before, it could be the first time that student's hearing it. And so making sure you you give care to each one of those moments.

Dr. Michelle Burke [00:38:45]: Michelle Burke, Grand Rapids, Michigan. I work with the Michigan Center for Adult College Success. I've been a NASPA member for a long time. I think coming to the NASPA conference almost every year and seeing the people that you have mentored that have mentored you. And what I love is when I have my undergraduate student from years ago who's now getting a doctorate and gonna be a professor in higher ed. That's amazing.

Dr. Mimi Benjamin [00:39:11]: I'm Mimi Benjamin. I'm a professor in the student affairs in higher education program at Indiana University of Pennsylvania. I think that when I come to the national conference and I run into former colleagues and former students who tell me about their successes and are so excited about everything from passing their comps to getting a promotion to doing the kind of work and making the kind of impact on students that they always talked about doing. Those are really the times that I know I picked the right profession, and I'm really excited to be part of of the field.

Mylon Wallace [00:39:48]: Mylon Wallace. I work in the Office of Student Conduct at the University of Alabama. I've had the opportunity in the Office of Student Conduct where I've been able to make a decision that could have faced somebody's life and chosen not to. I feel like that embodies compassion and empathy because at the end of the day, I do still have a job to do and they do still have to be held accountable, but that doesn't mean I have to be malicious with it.

Narelle Njok [00:40:12]: Hi, everyone. My name is Nairole Njok. I'm currently a first year graduate student at Iowa State University in the student affairs master's program, and I am from Omaha, Nebraska. As a first year graduate, I really reflect on my experience in undergrad as a member of a a black Greek letter organization and a member of a scholarship community that I was involved Those individuals really embodied what it means to be a student affairs professional to the point where now I'm in the field now and being able to live out my purpose. And so shout out to those individuals who've just been been on my side and sat with me when I've had hard conversations. And they've had those conversations with me even when I didn't wanna hear it. But overall, like, they've really shaped the individual that I am today, and I I appreciate them so.

Pedro Ramos [00:41:00]: Hi. This is Pedro Ramos. I am the student engagement manager for the program Exploratory Studies at CU Boulder from Boulder, Colorado. So hello. I remember leading a student leadership conference maybe, like, three years ago at Adams State University, go Grizzlies. And one of the things that I remember asking the students is, where do you come from, who are you now, and where are we going in the future? And it was an embodiment of true inner reflection that we were able to get students to really reflect on their values. And I think that's one of the things about the student affairs professionals is that we're constantly going back to the drawing board and being, alright. Where do I come from? Where am I? And where am I going in the future? So in the same way we ask that for our students, I hope we ask that for ourselves too and really, I don't know, hoping for a really prosperous journey for all of us.

Pedro Ramos [00:41:51]: So thank you.

Dr. Peggy Crowe [00:41:54]: Hi. I'm Peggy Crowe. I serve as the director of the counseling center and the student accessibility resource center at Western Kentucky University. I think this conversation right here with my dear friend, Chris, is a way that we embody the spirit of the profession. I think all the sessions that we're at, all the reunions that we're having, you know, we're talking about Chris and I are part of the inaugural serve academy and trying to find ways for us to get together and just be in presence with one another. I think we are forgetting the importance hugs that we're receiving. That's the spirit of this profession. That's why we come back here.

Dr. Peggy Crowe [00:42:30]: That's why we feel engaged and rejuvenated to go back and do our very important work.

Dr. Phil Covington [00:42:36]: I'm Phil Covington. I serve as associate vice vice chancellor for student success at the University of Nebraska Medical Center. Fortunately, those are things that seem to happen almost every day and that's just the point in time where a student finally sees you not as a suit, not as an administrator, not as somebody who's there just checking boxes, but realizes, oh, this guy really cares about me and my experience and my future and my family. So taking the time to slow down long enough to see people for who they are and for who they're becoming and hoping in return that they can do the same for us, it's just so beautiful in this profession. And then getting to come to places like the annual conference and seeing colleagues that we've known for a long time, as well as connecting with new folks and being encouraged and being encouragers. There's so much negativity going on, but there's also incredible opportunity for us to make a difference for one another right now.

Rachael Amaro [00:43:33]: Rachel L. Morrow, admissions and academic advisor for the Department of Educational Leadership at Cal State Fullerton. I think recently, for me, a moment that really brings the spirit of student affairs is that we had a student in crisis very recently, and what I appreciated was the connection our students have to not just myself as the advisor for the department, but to my EDD director and even to the faculty made them feel comfortable to let all of us know, hey, there's another member in our cohort who we are concerned about. And going through all of that made us feel like, oh, good. The students trust us to help, and they help each other in moments of crisis. And so we really felt like a team in working through the situation and getting help for the student, and now things are a lot, have improved. And so it's nice for us to know that not only are we doing a good job at connecting with them, but they feel comfortable with us and reaching out when even it's not themselves that need help, but someone in their cohort.

Rachel Duvall [00:44:42]: I'm Rachel Duvall. I'm the associate director of volunteer engagement at NASPA. I am from Memphis, Tennessee. I think seeing the KCs and some just all professional organizations who share resources without a sense of competitiveness is what I really have valued in getting to know folks around here. We are all doing the same work, and so rising tides lift all boats kind of situation. And so when we don't compete, but we build on what everyone is doing in a way that feels supportive, I think that's when we are the most successful.

Ray Fisco [00:45:14]: Hi. Ray Fisco, he, him pronouns. I am from Colorado Springs, Colorado, and I serve NASPA as the assistant director of Statewide Coalitions Trainings and Partnerships. Certainly, there was a time that I was helping a student that got into trouble for drinking on campus, And, you know, I got to talk to them about making better choices, talking about their goals, talking about, you know, what they want to do in college and how this experience, how getting in trouble shouldn't define who they are. And they really took that conversation, that meeting with me, and really allowed them to, you know, really reflect. And from that moment, it felt like they really grew and really knew what they they wanted to do moving forward and to not allow this experience define who they are. And I, you know, I got to see this student continue to grow and prosper beyond that meeting that, you know, one mistake doesn't define what is what a student does for for the rest of the time in their career, and that really defines to me the moment that experience that I have in student affairs of, like, why I'm in this profession, why I love the work that I get to do.

Sean Devoe [00:46:21]: Hi. Sean DeVoe. I serve as the associate vice chancellor for student affairs and dean of students at the University of Massachusetts Boston. At UMass Boston, where we are a primarily or majority minority institution and also majority first gen, on a daily basis, I get to help someone out. And that's that's really sometimes it's as simple as making sure a student understands who to connect with on campus. And sometimes the other day, I met with a student who arrived in our campus and had been, designated as an unhoused student in her high school years, transitioned to us from out of state. And after doing some research, I was able to provide her with what's called in state residency as a state institution, which knocked her tuition down tremendously. And she was thrilled, and I know that I have a student that I've really impacted.

Sean Devoe [00:47:10]: So it's a good place to work.

Sarah Edmonson [00:47:15]: Hello. I am Sarah Edmonson. She, her pronouns. I serve as the associate director for student involvement at Washington University in Saint Louis or WashU. I think it's such a small example, but to me it is a really good one. In my top five strengths is this developer strength. I lean into heavily in my developmental work with students, and I had a student. They were actually one of my very first student leaders in my full time professional role, and several years later, they had ended up going to grad school.

Sarah Edmonson [00:47:40]: They took a job in higher education in student affairs. They were working with teams of students, kind of supervising teams of students like I was when I was in the position where I knew them. And they had a group chat. And this group chat, I was in housing at time when I worked with this student. The staff of that building had a really robust, really funny, clever group chat. I mean, just a lot of kind of funny inside joke, and that culture really that staff team bonded really, really well.

Sarah Edmonson [00:48:03]: And

Sarah Edmonson [00:48:03]: but now she's managing one of those. And a great team, but it's blowing up at all hours of the day. And you come back and you've been away from your phone for twenty minutes, and you come back to a 50 missed messages in the group chat. And it was just fun to see her reach out to me and say, I had no idea what that was like for you as a professional until I am now in this position. And thank you for the ways. You are always gracious with us and understanding, while also, like, setting those boundaries, turning off the group chat when you needed to have kinda your space and check out. But I thought it was really fun to see her go from being a student to being the professional that is loving working with students and really following a very similar career path and finding just as much meaning and fun, but also balancing some of those tricky pieces that come with working with students and having a very different kind of life than they have. But for me, that was a really beautiful full circle moment and how I got to kind of contribute to sustaining the profession, getting to inspire the next generation of leaders.

Sarah Edmonson [00:48:57]: And I hope to do that with my staff and to keep building them up so that they continue to move up and we continue to have a really robust, healthy field. Hi. I'm doctor Sheila Carussell.

Dr. Sheila Carusel [00:49:09]: I work at Ohio Northern University, and I'm the director of pharmacy student affairs. Thinking about an experience that really, I think, embodies the spirit of this profession, the thing that recently happened with me, a mother called me and said, whatever you did with my student, I do success coaching, whatever however you worked with her, she's blossoming in her second year. She was never the strongest student in high school and she came to ONU and, yeah, didn't have a good first semester but then worked with you in the spring semester and now she is a TA in a biology lab and she got over a three point o GPA this past fall and I congratulated her and said keep up the great work and I think that really is what embodies our profession.

Sylvester Gaskin [00:49:55]: Name is Sylvester Gaskin. I'm a leadership development program leader for the Association of American Medical Colleges. I think, you know, now that I'm kinda adjacent to the field, just hearing from former students saying, like, they're going off to do great things, they're getting great jobs. They're getting promoted or, like, they struggle, then you don't hear from them for a while and they kinda get back to you like they've done well. Like, I I posted a picture on LinkedIn with a colleague of mine that I worked with, like, fifteen years ago and had a bunch of students reach out and be like, y'all were there when we needed you. And, like, I'm I'm thriving now. I bought my first house, paid off my car early. I'm like, I'm having a family.

Sylvester Gaskin [00:50:32]: Those are the things I think you don't see immediately, but down the road, you'll see you'll see that result. And I think that that to me, those are moments that, you know, like, okay. Like, yeah. Like, we did something good.

Taylor Henderson [00:50:45]: Hi. This is Taylor Henderson. I'm the director of the Reliance Student Experience office at Texas A and M University's Mays Business School. So I've been in this work for about fourteen years now, and I worked in various offices, academic programs, advancement, career services, now student experience office. And watching the student journey

Taylor Henderson [00:51:03]: manifest in many different pockets of campus,

Taylor Henderson [00:51:03]: I think, is always the different pockets of campus, I think, is always the experience that matters most. And it's it's what embodies the spirit of student affairs because seeing students in all of these different corners and all of these different functional areas kind of growing simultaneously as as individuals and as a collective body is, I think, what student affairs is all about.

Terrence Duffy [00:51:28]: Hi. My name is Terrence Duffy, t. I'm a first year graduate student at Baldwin Wallace University in the leadership in higher education program. One that I've definitely noticed is right now, I do an internship with Residence Life and Housing. So seeing a lot of the residents connecting with their RA is has been something that I think has been really rewarding, specifically in their programming. I technically oversee the commuters, but I still work with some of the RAs and go to their programming. So seeing them utilize this lounge that I created is something really impactful for me because not only is it being used by a underrepresented, community at Baldwin Wallace University, but also students who now are like, woah. Like, I didn't even know that this could be an option once I loop move off campus or so I think just kind of having that students realizing that there's other things out there than what they know is something that I think has been really rewarding.

Dr. TJ Pegg [00:52:24]: Hello. I'm doctor TJ Pegg from George Mason University in Fairfax, Virginia. And then a moment in student affairs that, really embodies the spirit of this profession is each year I serve on our Welcome to Mason community committee on campus, and I lead our kickoff to success resource fair where I get to collaborate with campus partners across academic and student affair units. And seeing over 30 units outside our arena, tabling with students and welcoming them to campus really embodies the collaboration effort across our profession.

Travis Tucker [00:53:02]: Alright. Hello there. My name is Travis Tucker. I use him as pronouns. I serve as the assistant dean and director of the Carley Field Center at Princeton University. I also am a member of the GSKC as the cochair elect. I mean, this conference really is it. Right? Like, where I am being able to connect with individuals that have made such a lasting impact on me and really being able to reconnect with them in a way that feels just really personal.

Travis Tucker [00:53:24]: It really has given me the opportunity to refocus my work and refocus my passion in it, and so I get that every year. So as I sit in this space, I have to honor the fact that this conference is that for me today.

Val Shepherd [00:53:40]: Hey. I'm Val Shepherd. I'm a senior analyst with UCLA Recreation. I'm a long time member of the administrators and graduate professional student services knowledge community, and it's such a wonderful community. I've made great friends that I've known for over ten years, and it's wonderful. And I feel like if everyone can have that in student affairs where they make those friends, it really does embody the spirit of this profession.

Sabina Kapoor [00:54:13]: Hi, my name is Sabina Kapoor and I'm the new co chair, one of the new co chairs for the SAPA knowledge community with NASPA. I've been in higher ed for a little over twenty years, and in that time, I've served roles in student affairs, academic affairs, student success. And after a little over twenty years, I decided to go back to school full time and pursue my PhD. So if all goes well, I'll get that by the end of this year. So I was for a short period, I was at a community college and it was a dual designated HBCU and HSI.

Sabina Kapoor [00:54:47]: So I

Sabina Kapoor [00:54:47]: think they're one of the only ones in the nation. It was located in a part of town where it's predominantly low SES. So on my second day on the job, I met someone. I met a student who was walking away from a abusive domestic situation. She was in her early twenties. She had served already, and she had a child. And she was literally living in her car. So I was able to connect her.

Sabina Kapoor [00:55:17]: I didn't know all of our services on campus, but I immediately connected her to, we had still some money left. That I knew my first day was that we still had funding residual from COVID that we were still trying to use out. And the institution was using that on a as needed basis to help people with things like immediate needs like housing, food, and so on. So I immediately connected her to that service under my umbrella. But then I also connected her to community connections that I had within the city. So she was able to buy groceries on the immediately. And some of these non profits that work in the community were able to help her find a place to live. So in I'm lucky in that scenario in that I've lived in my hometown for a long time, so I knew a lot of people across the city.

Sabina Kapoor [00:56:09]: And then the people and I just met some folks in my new at my then new institution. So we worked with her and I kept in touch with her, kept tabs on her. And then maybe a little about a month or month later or so, she was settled and situated. She really had a lot to offer. And then vice president of The United States has having a symposium in the White House, and it was targeting HBCUs, and the topic was on abortion rights. And so I said, let's have this student represent. I think she can bring experience as a nontraditional student. And the fact that she's a mother, she made a choice, but she had that choice.

Sabina Kapoor [00:56:53]: And so and that was a key thing. So I advocated for her to go, and we were able to have her go to this. And when she came back, it was like she was recharged, her energy was renewed, and she was just really excited about being in school. I think this is what she needed to continue going at this institution. And so I worked with a lot of different people on campus and a lot of folks off campus to make this happen, but I really feel like this was what student affairs does is really help develop the student outside the classroom in a holistic way. And so I really felt that that was it.

Vanessa Vera [00:57:38]: Hi. My name is Vanessa Vera. I'm a conduct education graduate assistant at the University of Colorado, Colorado Springs. A moment that I recently experienced in the field of student affairs as a new professional of about two years in the field was having a mentee of mine when I was an undergraduate student, which is where I got my start in the field, approach me and tell me that it was my mentoring and and my relationship with her during peer mentoring that gave her the confidence to go for a student body president position at our institution at Northern Arizona University. And I think that moment was something that filled me with a lot of joy. That was my first job in student affairs, and I didn't think that I could have that kind of impact on somebody. And to hear someone say, you gave me the confidence to believe that I could do that and represent my institution and be a leader meant the world to me. And so I think about that moment a lot and just me continuing to be able to impact students in the different fields and areas that I engage with.

Dr. Will Simpkins [00:58:37]: This is Will Simpkins. I'm vice president of student affairs at Metropolitan State University of Denver. So my grad school mentor of twenty five years ago sends out an annual Christmas letter. Marsha Gensler Stevens University of Maryland is one of my favorite people in the world. And her letter talked about spending time with students in protest, spring twenty twenty four, which many of us did. And in her letter, she said how she spent time on the quad engaging students around the question of how did you come to believe that? And I just remember sort of sitting with that December 29 when I got the letter at home. Like, we were so busy trying to ask questions about demands and could we negotiate? Can we get this encampment down that we forgot to actually be educators? And say, like, tell me what you believe and tell me how you came to understand that and what information are you pulling in. So to me, that's the profession.

Dr. Will Simpkins [00:59:29]: Educators asking deep questions.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:59:44]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners, and we continue to be grateful that you spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at essayvoices@nasa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show, and please leave us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really helps other student affairs professionals find our show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [01:00:23]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next

Dr. Jill Creighton [01:00:33]: time.

View Details

In the latest episode of "Student Affairs Voices from the Field," listeners are treated to an energetic collection of perspectives straight from the annual NASPA conference. This dynamic, "person on the street" episode—hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton—dives into a pressing topic: How can we better leverage technology to meet the evolving needs of students in higher education?

What stands out most from these conversations is the profession’s willingness to lean into change, rather than shy away from it. From associate vice presidents to graduate students, professionals across the nation acknowledge that technology—and especially artificial intelligence (AI)—is reshaping student affairs. As Dr. Eddie Martinez puts it, “The bus has left the station … we need to play catch up.” There’s consensus: AI isn’t just a trend. It’s a powerful tool that can streamline administrative tasks, enhance communication, and free up time for the real heart of student affairs—the human connection.

But it’s not all enthusiasm and optimism. Many professionals, like Eileen Hentz and Dr. Bernard Little, admit to their initial hesitation and the need for continual learning. The episode encourages honesty about where we’re starting from, and models what it means to be a lifelong learner in higher ed. Just as importantly, ethical use, intentionality, and a focus on access are recognized as essential values as we navigate these new tools.

Students themselves are often ahead of the curve, pushing their institutions to integrate technology in ways that feel intuitive and relevant. Yet, as several speakers caution, “simple is better.” Too many platforms can overwhelm students, so thoughtful integration—rather than chasing every shiny new thing—is crucial. Streamlining platforms, as Dr. Will Simpkins urges, helps ensure technology truly empowers rather than confuses our campus communities.

This episode is a masterclass in collective wisdom: you’ll hear voices championing data-driven decisions, advocating for AI workshops, and urging a balance between technological innovation and the irreplaceable human touch. The themes are clear—embrace change, keep learning, focus on ethical and efficient solutions, and never lose sight of the student experience.

Tune in to hear these fresh perspectives and discover actionable insights that you can bring back to your own work. Whether you’re tech-savvy or just starting your journey, you’ll leave inspired to reimagine how technology can support both you and your students. Listen now and join the conversation!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:46]: So today's question will be on theme one, which was well-being and healthy excellence in student affairs. Next week, we'll be bringing you theme two in changing the student affairs profession, and then finally, theme three, which is sustaining and celebrating the student affairs profession. Today's question was, how can student affairs professionals model healthy excellence in their own lives and institutional cultures while supporting students' well-being? If you joined us, thank you so much for sharing your voice, and we hope that you enjoy hearing from your colleagues and peers.

Eileen Hentz [00:01:15]: Hello. My name is Eileen Hence. I am the program director of academic and student services at the University of Maryland Department of Aerospace Engineering. Do as I say, not as I do, because I am not I will admit that I am not the best at modeling healthy excellence in my own life, but I really truly believe it's important to do so by having a healthy work life balance and making sure you remember your priorities and trying your best to ensure that you don't lose yourself in your work. I think that's something that I need to do more of, is remembering that I do have an important life outside of work, and it is okay to say no, and it is okay to set boundaries on our time, and still pour as much of our heart and soul into our jobs as possible during the times we should be working and when we should not be working to make sure that we take that time for ourselves and not feel guilty about it.

Dr. Alyssa Bivens [00:02:07]: Hi. I'm doctor Alyssa Bivens. I'm representing George Mason University. I'm in their very new graduate division as a graduate career and professional development program coordinator. I think one of the ways that student affairs professionals that we can model healthy excellence in our own lives and institutional cultures is really trying to be the people that we want our students to be. So for example, I work with a lot of graduate professional assistants, and I try to model professional behaviors both with them, treating them how I wanna be treated, and also showing them good work and professionalization skills from organization to just general things that will help them moving forward in life so that they have a model that they can potentially look towards. I try to be, not always.

Anurant Ranieri [00:02:53]: I'm Anurant Ranieri. I'm from Texas A and M University in College Station, Texas. I am currently serve as the associate director of career services for Mays Business School. I think showcasing balance of, like, walking the walk and talking the talk. Right? Like, that's really an important aspect of student affairs that sometimes we don't do. We we tell students to take care of themselves, but we're not always taking care of our own selves. And so making sure that we take the advice that we give students most of the time. I know I'm really bad about that, but I sometimes will be, like, check myself and be, like, oh, right.

Anurant Ranieri [00:03:26]: What I would tell a student in this moment, I need to tell myself I need

Mimi Benjamin [00:03:29]: to get more sleep or I need to do this thing.

Anurant Ranieri [00:03:30]: And so I think that's really important.

Amy Law [00:03:34]: Hello. My name is Amy Law. I am a GAP from the graduate associate program with NASPA. I am from California. I currently attend the University of Southern California for my degree in post secondary administration and student affairs with my master's program. Especially as student affairs professionals, I feel like we can really model healthy excellence in our own lives and even contribute to that institutional culture by being student facing even as we go into higher levels that are not so student facing. I think maintaining a level of student support and student advisory, like, committees even and leveraging, like, student voices is definitely a perfect way to model healthy excellence because students know best what they need and students know best how to advocate for themselves. And if you are not, you know, in a point where you're at least, like, reaching out or asking them how they need the support, I feel like it's a little bit hard to understand them in that way.

Amy Law [00:04:38]: So always making sure that you have another set of eyes, whether it's from a group of students or even just one student, will make such a big difference.

Angela Watts [00:04:50]: Angela Watts, the University of Texas Health Science Center in San Antonio School Of Nursing. I'm the director for student success. I think that student affairs professionals can model healthy excellence in their own lives by really small ways in our day to day lives. Simple things like not eating lunch at your desk, taking that time away to rejuvenate during that hour and and really just modeling the behavior that we encourage in our students. When you take time off from work, actually disconnecting as much as possible and just really demonstrating for them how to have as much balance as possible even though we all know that it's impossible to be completely balanced with work life, but just demonstrating as much as possible the healthy behaviors that we encourage in our students.

Asia Jones [00:05:39]: Asia Jones, associate director at the National Association for Student Affairs Professionals, AKA NASBA. So I believe one of the ways that we model healthy excellence is resting. Rest is resistance. So many years in student affairs, we've thought we've had to work sixteen and seventeen hour days to get things done. And the way we model in our own lives that healthy excellence is knowing when to take breaks, knowing when to rest, and setting boundaries around that to be able to still get the work done. But if we don't have any rest or any sleep, then we're doing things on a not even a half empty cup, like, maybe three fourths of a cup, and that's not working anymore. And so we've gotta find different ways to to set up boundaries so that within ourselves so that we can be the best to other people.

Dr. Bernard Little [00:06:27]: I'm doctor Bernard Little, vice president for student affairs at Prairie State College. I think that one way that we can model healthy excellence in our own lives is being honest about our truths and what we experience. When I took on vice president for student affairs role, I also started therapy, my therapy journey, and it has really enhanced my life both personally and professionally. And I've been open and honest about that with my staff and, with others who work with me. And it has been a refreshing journey to see how they've been impacted by my story and my experience.

Camden Doolittle [00:07:04]: My name is Camden Doolittle. I use they and them pronouns. I'm coming to you from the NASPA annual conference in New Orleans, but I am from the University of California Davis in the Sacramento region of California. I think healthy excellence for me looks like, especially in this political climate, owning who I am, all the time and with joy. I'm a trans and non binary person and we have so many of our students who share those same identities. And right now they're under attack. At federally, at all levels of government and society and showing up as a transhuman, that model is healthy excellence and and modeling boundaries. I don't have to be at all things all the time, but I am there for my community.

Camden Doolittle [00:07:41]: Show students they can show up and step back as they need to because I think that's all the more important as we move through college and whatever comes next in this world.

Charles [00:07:52]: I'm Charles, and we can model healthy excellence in our own lives while taking care of student well-being by finding ways to kinda put our mental health first. Relaxing, taking that time to really unplug, breathe, because you can't pour from an empty cup. So you gotta be ready and able. And Jessica agrees, so we share the same answer here.

David Chow [00:08:20]: Right? Yes. Yes.

Chris Hall [00:08:23]: Hi. I'm Chris Hall. I'm the director of residence life and student housing at Georgetown University Law Center. I think one of the things that we can do to really help our students is by modeling good work activities, making sure that, you know, we are working reasonable hours. We are, both in terms of daily and weekly, that we are not doing the kinds of things that we don't want our students to do. We don't wanna be, you know, burning the midnight oil or, putting things off to the last minute, things like that. I think that's probably what would help them with their well-being as much as anything.

Clarissa Lau [00:08:59]: I am Clarissa Lau. My pronouns are she and her, and I work at the University of Toronto. I think the first is recognizing work life balance, being able to practice that, obviously, model that for students when we try to encourage students to study hard, play hard, and I think that's equally also the role of a student affairs professional.

Dr. Dan Maxwell [00:09:21]: My name is Dan Maxwell. I serve as the interim vice president for student success and student life at the University of Houston downtown. When I think about modeling a healthy excellence in my life and the culture at the institution, I would say that I try to be my authentic self wherever I show up. I think by being comfortable with who I am and showing people the comfort of my identities and being in my spaces, I think when we can bring 100% of ourselves into our spaces, then we can do our better work in that way.

Dan Balchak [00:09:52]: Dan Balchak, interim dean of students at Harvard Graduate School of Arts and Sciences. We can experience healthy excellence in our own lives by taking care of us and time management. And I can tell you I'm not very good at that. I've been working way too hard, but we really need to make space for ourselves and give ourselves grace to be healthy, to be able to support our students.

David Chow [00:10:15]: Hello. My name is David Chow. I am currently the chair of the technology knowledge community for NASPA. So I think student affairs professionals, obviously, we have to take care of ourselves in order for us to effectively take care of our students. It's easy to forget sometimes because we want to serve our students. We wanna be there for them. But if we we don't practice what we preach to them, then we struggle and and our health is damaged and then ultimately we can't help our students. So I think just it's kind of practicing what we preach.

Dan Balchak [00:10:41]: My name David Zimoyski. I'm senior associate dean of students at Boston University. This is an uncertain time in the higher education landscape, and I think what I am trying to do right now as best I can is stay calm, stay focused, be thoughtful, display care for others. And in doing so, I feel good about how I am spending my time day to day. And I think that is a, hopefully, a good example for others in my professional community.

Dr. Deborah Wright [00:11:13]: I am doctor Deborah Wright, and I am with the George Washington University in Washington, DC. I am doctor Deborah Wright, and I am with the George Washington University in Washington, DC.

Deidre Cobb [00:11:24]: Hi. My name is Diedrich Cobb, and I am from Fairmont State University in West Virginia, and I am the student success coordinator. I was hired under the title three grant with the intentions of being, first and foremost, a bridge between academic affairs and student affairs along with other responsibilities such as forming a student success support team and also overseeing a student ambassador program called the Student Empowerment Liaisons.

Dr. Eddie Martinez [00:11:55]: Hello, everyone. My name is Eddie Martinez. I serve as the associate dean for student affairs at Suffolk County Community College. I think that we, as professionals, need to continue to honor ourselves. And when we're tired, take that break. When you wake up and you just feel, I need a mental health day, it's okay. That's why we have them. All too often, we in student affairs continue to push, push, push, and it's at the expense of our own health.

Dr. Eddie Martinez [00:12:20]: And by default, our students don't get the best of us. So making sure you check-in with yourself, I make sure I do my best to try to check-in with myself. Don't always succeed, but I do try.

Ellie McMillan [00:12:32]: My name is Ellie McMillan. I'm the graduate apprentice at the Center for Leadership in Elon University. I use sheher pronouns, and I'm a graduate student in the Master of Art in Higher Education program at Elon. I think modeling well-being is super important because oftentimes, we find that students have a culture of busyness, and we discourage our students from overcommitting themselves or being too busy. But if we want them to kind of model that, we also have to model that for ourselves. So we have to carve out time within within our days. We have to kind of cut down the meetings that we do, limit ourselves to three meetings a day, if that's possible. I think that's a really important first step of, like, we can't be asking our students to be doing things that we can't ourselves do.

Erica Stocks [00:13:28]: Erica Stocks, director of student affairs at Boston University's Henry M. Goldman School of Dental Medicine. I think it's really just about when we're where we're speaking to students or we're having interactions. I think particularly in the work that I do is when I'm doing presentations, taking a moment to kind of teach students, okay, let's take a deep breath. Let's all kind of collectively come together to take a pause in a moment. And I think it's also that we're trying to be really intentional about the programming that we're doing, about making sure that students are taking breaks to appreciate the small

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:13:56]: things in life.

Erica Stocks [00:13:58]: And that also goes with us to kind of going out and taking breaks from our desk and walking out into the student activities area. And so I think that there's it means so much more that we do. I think that we're thinking about well-being and particularly from a student perspective and also as a professional. Right? It's multifaceted. It's not just, oh, I need to work out. Oh, I need to do this. It's like taking a moment, taking a breath, taking a pause, whatever it might be.

Dr. George McClellan [00:14:21]: I'm George McClellan, professor of higher education at the University of Mississippi. So I've been in student affairs in one way or another for about forty something odd years. And one of the things I learned early on in the profession was that you aren't gonna be able to help take care of other people until you learn to take care of yourself. So it's a really important question. And I think one of the keys is being comfortable acknowledging that you're not comfortable. Right? That you need rest, that you need time, that you need to reflect, that you need whatever it is. You need challenge. You need something to pick you up.

Dr. George McClellan [00:15:43]: Maybe not enough veggies, but today, I'm a little tired. So I think that's really important. And I think when it comes to institutional culture, it's the advocacy for prioritizing health and well-being. And, you know, we we have a million things going on. And as staffs are cut and there are funding reductions and resource reductions of all various kinds, it's gonna some of the first things that are gonna go if we're not advocating are taking care of staff. And so we have to advocate for ourselves. We have to be okay doing that.

Hallie Vavris [00:16:18]: Hello. My name is Hallie Vavris. I am a graduate student at Baldwin Wallace University in the leadership in higher education program here. We are role models for students first and foremost, and I think that higher education professionals, you know, sometimes we can think about more of the logistics of things, like, oh, like, what are we teaching? Because we we are in education. However, I think something that needs to be talked about more is that students are always, like, watching us, like, just our behaviors and our choices. I know for myself, I wanna work in a community college specifically. So, you know, helping students and meeting them where they are at is a really big aspect, you know, supporting students' well-being and just being a student's student advocate. I really like the word advocate because you are alongside the student developmentally wherever they're at.

Jackie Yun [00:17:11]: I'm Jackie Yoon. I take the she series, and I serve as the executive director of the student center at Harvard Griffin GSAS. I think student affairs professionals can model healthy behaviors by being our whole person. So, obviously, being involved at work and doing good work to support students, but also taking care of our physical health and our mental health and well-being, and sharing that and modeling that where we can with both our staff, but also with our students. I feel feel grateful to be in the student activities space because I feel like that's essential to the mission that we have. At the student center at Harvard, we're really focused on reminding students that they are full beings with interests that go beyond their academic pursuits, and they do better academically when they engage in those things that bring them joy. And graduate school is hard and long, and we need victories. So we need moments of creation, connection, and opportunities to do things that just spark joy.

Jackie Yun [00:18:12]: And I feel like I'm constantly reminding very high achieving students that are very focused in their discipline that it's okay to have fun in graduate school.

Dr. Jacob Diaz [00:18:23]: My name is Jacob Diaz. I serve as the associate vice chancellor for student success at the University of South Florida, Saint Petersburg campus. So I believe the work on healthy excellence starts with me as an educator and doing my own work on trying to get clear about what works for me to maintain a sense of peace and harmony while amidst, at times, a very chaotic environment. And so I try to think about what makes me feel good, what grounds me each day, and then reminding myself that this is important work to do and that I'm contributing even if it's in a small way.

James Quiesenberry [00:19:05]: Hi. This is James Quisenberry. I'm executive director of student affairs technology at the University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign. Our campuses have to adopt what's called, being a health promoting university, something called the Okanagan Charter. I encourage people to check it out. But it's not just leaders in student affairs, but it's leaders on campus that have to take a look at what's going on in their environment, what's going on in their climate, and be comfortable in supporting their staff in leading healthy lives to achieve the best that they can.

James Stewart [00:19:42]: Hi. I'm James Stewart, associate vice president for student development and achievement at Coppin State University. In this, to me, we have to be the role model and examples for students. We often tell students to balance well-being, to balance their lives, to pursue personal interests, and then we don't do those own things. We can always be bombarded with the day's fires and all the work we have to do, but we also have to be thinking about how are we in the best place to, as they say, put on our own oxygen mask first before helping others.

Jamie Haney [00:20:17]: Hi. I'm Jamie Haney, associate dean for the Graduate College at University of Illinois Chicago. I think one of the best ways to do that is to share our lives with students. Just letting them know that the challenges we face in our own lives are similar to what they face in their lives, and how we cope with those, and how we try to balance everything. I'm a wife and a mother and a full time employee. Once upon a time, I was also a full time doctoral student, and so letting students know that I was experiencing a lot of the same challenges and experiences that they were going through was really helpful for them. I think it helps them to know that we have experienced or are experiencing what they are going through and just knowing that we are human just like they are. So I think that's an important way to share our own lives with students.

Dr. Jamie Washington [00:21:03]: Hi. I'm Jamie Washington, and I am the president and founder of the Washington Consulting Group and of the Social Justice Institute, Training Institute. So when I think about, again, student affairs professionals and well-being and how we can continue to support excellence, what comes up for me is that we continue to live into what our why is and our commitment to always putting students first, remembering that we got into this profession because we cared about the experience of students and what they get to do and what they get to become. So our primary goal in higher education is to prepare the next generation of leaders and those who will go forth from our spaces and do good work and make a difference in the world. So we get to continue to remember that that's our charge, that we stay in that, and we help them navigate through difficult and challenging times, and we navigate it along with them.

Dr. Jeanna Mastrodicasa [00:22:00]: Hi. This is Gina Masterdecasa, and I am the director of the Office of Institutional Assessment at the University of Florida. And I've been there for more than twenty seven years in a total of six roles. Really doing your very best to figure out what you can tell people you do with your time, being able to articulate it. It can be as simple as family time, catching up on the bachelor, whatever other inane things that make you a better human, but tell people that. So the other thing I think that I have done in my own career is I have been open with people about my own personal struggles challenges that I'm facing, both as a human being and part of a complex family and the whole thing. And I've been upfront about it and visible about using my time for mental health purposes. And And I think that's something I'm I'm doing for myself, but I'm really doing it to show people it's okay.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:22:56]: Hey. My name is Josie Alquist. I use sheher pronouns. I am a digital engagement consultant, executive strategist, coach, and speaker. Modeling healthy excellence is going to take a level of letting go of perfection if you are gonna ensure your own well-being as well as your students. I know that's really hard for us in higher ed. We have very high standards, but good is also really good.

Dr. Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:23:59]: And how can they do it? I think you gotta take an honest stock of where you are. What are the expectations that are placed on you and really think through how you can bring that concept of healthy excellence into the space. And I would also say that if you get to the point where you're like, this institutional culture is not supporting that for me and it's unsustainable, you gotta start looking. And I know that's hard, and for some folks, it's almost impossible. But for your own well-being, I think you gotta do it. I'm Justin Jeffrey.

Justin Jeffrey [00:24:26]: I'm the assistant vice president at Texas A and M University. So I think about how I role model healthy, excellent to my own life and how it's important for us to do that as professionals is just being present when you need to. And but for students to also see that you take time for yourself and that you are not at every event. I think sometimes we feel that we have that pressure to be at everything, but I think when you pick and choose what's most important to be at and then when you have conversations with the students about why maybe you couldn't join that evening and you have a family commitment or you needed to go to the gym, just being really honest and transparent about that so that they know that you're a true person, real person, and you're trying to balance your health and well-being as well.

Jawan Jacobs [00:25:06]: Hey, y'all. My name is Jawan Jacobs. I am currently an assistant director in the Student Involvement and Leadership office at Duke University. When thinking about well-being and healthy excellence and student affairs, right, I think one of the things that student affairs professionals can do to really model healthy excellence in their own lives is being proactive with what rest, relaxation, rejuvenation looks like. I think we're talking about it from the perspective of institutional culture. Making sure that you're advocating for yourself, I think, is always fair and you're right. Right? So making sure that in all of the things that you are being upfront with your supervisor, with your team, whether that be your staff or your students, and really letting them know what does it look when I'm having a 10 out of 10 day? How does that differ from when I'm having a three out of 10 day? Right? And what does that mean for support?

Kevin Willis [00:25:54]: Hi. My name is Kevin Willis. I am a membership manager with NASPA's membership team. I'm originally from Kentucky. I think that student affairs professionals can model healthy excellence in their lives, by thinking about healthy boundaries and encouraging their students to do so as well. I always tell my students when I supervise them in the past that they can't serve others if their cup is not full either. And so I always want people to think about how they can be there for the students and show that care and dedication while also maintaining boundaries. And maybe that is letting them know of the resources for particular conversation topics or letting them know this is where my strengths are and this is where I'll be for you, and then let's find you somebody that can match you in the other areas that you need them from.

Herbie Gibson [00:26:34]: Herbie r Gibson, sheher, associate director of residence education for student learning and leadership, Michigan State University. So when I think about modeling a healthy excellence within the field, first it actually starts with us rethinking the ideal worker norms that exist within the field. We've been socialized to believe that we have to work these long days, that we have to be accessible at all times of the day to our students, and that in no way is healthy whatsoever. And so how are we rethinking the work that we are doing to serve our students? I would also say that rest is important. Take your paid time off because PTO also stands for prepare the others. And so making sure that you are engaging in rest, taking vacation time, setting boundaries as a way to reevaluate your relationship to the work, and that's ways in which you can model that healthy practice.

Dr. Laura Devoe [00:27:26]: Hi. My name is doctor Laura DeVoe, and I'm a visiting assistant professor at Boston College. When I'm thinking about the well-being and healthy excellence in student affairs, I don't really know what else to say, but get off campus. You have to get off campus. You have to touch grass, as the kids say, and that grass can be off campus. You don't have to just be living your life in your university or college polo shirt. Move off campus, find some space, and get some life off campus that makes you happy, and find your people elsewhere. You will always have your people on campus.

Lauren Zielinski [00:28:09]: My name is Lauren Zielinski. I'm the associate director for student affairs at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, Office of Graduate Studies. I feel that student affairs professionals can model excellence in their own lives by learning to say no more, by putting boundaries on easy things such as when to stop checking their email at the night, setting up those clear boundaries of when their day starts and when their day ends so they can have that time to their selves to spend with family, friends, hobbies, anything that's gonna take them and help them disconnect from the work to give them that work life balance.

Marcus . [00:28:48]: My name is Marcus. I'm from Singapore, and I'm representing a social enterprise called Sojourner's Agora, but I also work in student affairs in the National University of Singapore, taking care of student life for the undergraduates. I think an important thing with my experience has been to understand emotional and physical boundaries in your work, especially as someone who lives on campus and serves students twenty four four seven. It's wonderful to see them as friends, but at the same time, it pays a lot to understand that, there is boundary between students whom you get to know professionally as well as the ones that you know through your own organic social activities outside. And that helps because you wanna be an example also of, drawing good boundaries, healthy boundaries so that your students can also model after that.

Mary Pat Morgan [00:29:36]: My name is Mary Pat Morgan, and I'm a program coordinator with the engineering program at the universities at Shady Grove. I think it's really important for student affairs professionals to model healthy excellence by bringing it back to the basics. Those things that we talk about during orientation, during those first advising sessions with students. I often tell myself it's important not to be a hypocrite, though always taking time to take a lunch. Even if it's ten minutes at your desk, take a lunch. Make sure you get that food in you and fuel you to get back to the work. Sleep is so important. The physical and mental preparation for the day.

Mary Pat Morgan [00:30:14]: I think the physical health is such an important component. Moving that mental preparation before the day.

Dr. Melanie Mitchell [00:30:23]: Hello. My name is doctor Melanie Mitchell, and I have the pleasure of serving as the director of the Impact Leadership Village at North Carolina State University. A moment that comes to mind for me when I think about being a student affairs affairs professional and modeling healthy excellence is thinking about how I do that on a daily basis in small ways. Right? And so an example that comes to mind is thinking about how to make sure I schedule lunch and take lunch, sometimes engage in taking a walk around campus. Also, just like we schedule all the things in our work, it's important that we're taking time even after work to pour back into us. Right? Because you can't pour from an empty cup. And when students see you modeling what it means to be well, that helps them think about that as they navigate their college career.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:31:16]: Hi. I am Melinda Stoops. I am currently serving as the interim dean of students at Bay Path University, and I've been working in higher education for over twenty years at this point. I think one of our challenges as student affairs professionals is we tend to work a lot of hours and sometimes challenge ourselves with boundaries around work life balance. And I think it's so important that we model healthy excellence in our lives for our students. And I think there are lots of ways to do it, but one thing I would say that's really important is think about how you model that in the office in front of students. So when a crisis comes up, how are you reacting to it? Can you react in a way that is somewhat calm and to say, okay. Let's go talk about this.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:32:01]: Let's work this out. Or are you freaking out as everyone else is freaking out? At a basic level, separate from a crisis, I also think about lunch. I have a bad habit of working through lunch. And there are many times over the twenty years in higher ed is I thought this is such an awful modeling for my students. Like, if my students in the office see me working through lunch, what does that say to them about self care and priority? So I really try and be intentional when I remember to do so about saying, okay, I'm gonna even take a few minutes to just sit quietly and eat or take a ten minute break and go for a walk just unwind and and sort of model those healthy behaviors.

Melissa Aponte [00:32:42]: I am doctor Melissa Aponte. I serve as assistant dean of students at Rochester Institute of Technology. I think one way that student affairs professionals can model healthy excellence in their own lives while supporting student well-being is by sharing with students some of the challenges that they face in their own lives. I think I've utilized examples from my own life and been open and transparent in sharing with my own students some of the challenges I've faced and how I've overcome them. And then I try to work with students to dig into their own life experiences and help them see how they've overcome challenges and that they have resiliency in themselves. So when they come to college and they're facing different issues, they can dig into those past experiences. So I think sharing is important and being open, I think, and showing that you are a whole human being. I do like to share tidbits of my life with my students as appropriate.

Melissa Ward [00:33:42]: I am Melissa Ward. I am director of student engagement at the College of Engineering at Oregon State University. So one thing I think I need to work on is being a better model of healthy excellence in how I work with our students. I try very hard to give them breaks and model when I'm taking breaks, but then you always wanna be responsive. Right? Because my weekends are sometimes when they can get their work done. So I think I need to be better at that. So I'm still learning.

Michael Allensworth [00:34:13]: Hello. My name is Michael Allensworth, and I work in the prevention, outreach, and education department at Michigan State University as our director for employee and graduate student programs. I'm thinking about how can we learn to hone in prioritizing the different priorities that we have. And so thinking about not everything can be a crisis, but focusing on what is important for a particular point in time, I think is something that's gonna help all of us better model healthy excellence in our organizations and within our units.

Dr. Michael Sheehane [00:34:42]: Howdy. My name is Michael Sheehan. I work at Texas A and M University in career services. Specifically, I'm the director of campus programs in the career center. Been there for about fifteen years now. So an example of how I do this, I think it actually starts with coming to the realization that you can't do it all and it's okay to, prioritize and say no to certain things. And so at some point, you gotta say, so how much effort and energy do I have to give? Make sure that you're living out excellence in your own life and being fully invested in the things you choose to be invested in, but knowing that you can't be involved in everything all the time. And I think that's something that some students have a particular time struggling with.

Dr. Michael Sheehane [00:35:16]: So they wanna do all the things all the time. And so I think modeling, that is okay to prioritize and let some things go, and that's okay too.

Dr. Michelle Burke [00:35:26]: Michelle Burke, Grand Rapids, Michigan. I work with the Michigan Center for Adult College Success. I've been a NASPA member for a long time. I think one thing that can be done to be available to students in their time is to work on staggered schedules for staff to recognize that not everybody's gonna work eight to five or eight to 8AM to 5AM, and that make sure that you're taking care of your team so they can take care of students. Model that as a supervisor by taking care of yourself and allowing your own self care time too.

Dr. Mimi Benjamin [00:36:00]: I'm Mimi Benjamin. I'm a professor in the student affairs in higher education program at Indiana University of Pennsylvania. And one of the ways that I think student affairs professionals can model healthy excellence is to get sleep and talk about the fact that they actually do sleep. I think that sleeping underrated well-being tasks that we can take on, and I think the more we talk about how we rest, the more others will see the value in that. Mylon Wallace. I work in the office of student conduct at the University of

Mylon Wallace [00:36:32]: Mylon Wallace. I work in the Office of Student Conduct at the University of Alabama, and I believe that student affairs professionals can just model it by showing students that we are all human, really, is the most important aspect of it. We all gonna make mistakes. We're all gonna be held accountable for our mistakes, and it's best we learn from them and keep going. Hi, everyone.

Dr. Mimi Benjamin [00:36:53]: My name is Nairole Njok. I'm currently a first year graduate student at Iowa State University in in the student affairs master's program, and I am from Omaha, Nebraska. I like to think about how we give tips to our students when it comes to their well-being and how we should actually be modeling those tips. And so it'd be really counterproductive if we asked practitioners are telling students to take care of themselves, set boundaries if we aren't doing that ourselves. And so living by your tips is how I'd see this. And I think in addition to that, being aware of the culture on your campus is really important because you're out of touch. It is really hard to support your students and to be able to kinda understand where their experience is when it comes to their well-being. If you aren't aware of what's going on on campus and especially since that will affect your students.

Dr. Mimi Benjamin [00:37:45]: And so being aware of what's going on on your campus, as it pertains to the culture and living up to your own tips slash expectations that you have for your students when it comes to their well-being.

Mylon Wallace [00:37:57]: Hi. This is Pedro Ramos. I am the student engagement manager for the program Exploratory Studies at CU Boulder from Boulder, Colorado. So hello. I think one of the biggest things that I can think about is knowing when to take a step back and saying no and being able to observe all the different pieces going on when we're making decisions about students. I feel like sometimes we go into a situation and we're really passionate about a certain initiative or a certain project. And we also can get crispy in that in that efforts. And so just reminding ourselves, okay, let me regroup myself, come back to this experience once I feel like I have everything prepared or I feel ready, or maybe even saying no is an important lesson that I think we can even tell our students that they don't need to be everything for everyone, at their institution.

Dr. Peggy Crowe [00:38:52]: Hi. I'm Peggy Crowe. I serve as the director of the counseling center and the student accessibility resource center at Western Kentucky University. Well, I think the pandemic showed us a lot of ways that we can provide more healthy excellence and balance in our lives. There is no such thing as balance. I don't like when people say I'm looking for balance because there is no such thing. But I think if we role model that for other people, taking care of our families, finding balance in our lives, maybe working remotely if that is a possibility while still maintaining a great work ethic. I think we can do that and then we're role modeling for students.

Dr. Peggy Crowe [00:39:27]: So if I'm not responding to an email at midnight every night or on the weekends, then I'm role modeling healthy balance and well-being to students.

Dr. Phil Covington [00:39:37]: I'm Phil Covington. I serve as associate vice chancellor for student success at the University of Nebraska Medical Center. Really understanding and pausing long enough to know what are my individual values and the boundaries associated with those, how much flexibility am I willing to engage over the course of a year. Obviously, there are seasons within each year that we've got, you know, higher loads that may have to, be taken. There's times and moments of crisis, obviously, that are gonna take additional effort from us, but it's it's knowing that we've got these things in place. One of the things that I've done over the course of the last year is just even prioritizing throughout the course of the day, at least three times a week, trying to get out and take a twenty minute walk across campus. Never fails. Maybe another staff member wants to come along with me.

Dr. Phil Covington [00:40:21]: Maybe I'm running into colleagues along the way and they ask if you can talk. I said, yeah, if you'll walk and so those are pieces that are making a difference, hopefully modeling, but also I know making a difference for me and my own health.

Rachel Omara [00:40:36]: Rachel O'Mara, admissions and academic advisor for the Department of Educational Leadership at Cal State Fullerton. I think that a good way to model sort of healthy excellence is to remember that we're all going through a lived experience and that as professionals, maybe we sometimes appear like we know more than our students or the people that we serve, and I think it's really crucial for us to make those connections and make the spaces really important for us to show ourselves and the things that we care about so that the students understand that we have those connections to them. Even if you have random posters in your director of volunteer engagement at NASPA.

Rachel Duvall [00:41:29]: I am from director of volunteer engagement at NASPA. I am from Memphis, Tennessee. I'm Rachel Duvall. I'm the associate director of volunteer engagement at NASPA. I am from Memphis, Tennessee. So how student affairs can professionals can model healthy excellence in their own lives and institutional cultures while supporting students' well-being. I think the really big thing here is to remember your roots in your professional journey and how you have evolved throughout the profession. Everyone's trajectory looks different, so honoring that in all folks.

Rachel Duvall [00:41:59]: And so if your journey doesn't look the same as someone else's, really being conscious of that and supporting folks in whatever they decide to do in their current role, next role, and all that and encouraging them to get involved with the professional track that works for them. So if that's regions or knowledge communities with us here at NASPO or a steering committee, I think that is how you can encourage someone to find community at their institution or with a professional organization, but just supporting them in whatever decisions they make.

Ray Fisco [00:43:13]: It's important to have self care. It's important to take a break. It's important to say no. Because especially in the field of student affairs, it's, like, very hard to say no. But when you're able to say no, that really shows growth, that really shows the opportunity to really be taking care of yourself and really be taking care of your own well-being.

Sean Devoe [00:43:36]: Hi. Sean Devoe. I serve as the associate vice chancellor for student affairs and dean of students at the University of Massachusetts Boston. Really focused on making sure that you're doing good stuff for yourself in your work that excites you and that really promotes the best work that you can do on behalf of your students. If you're not doing stuff that's exciting you, you're probably not doing stuff that's exciting your students as well.

Sarah Edmonson [00:44:04]: Hello. I am Sarah Edmonson. She, her pronouns, I serve as the associate director for student involvement at Washington University in Saint Louis or WashU. For me personally, one of the things I think is really important is setting boundaries. I set boundaries with the students I work with, and I'm very clear about communication. I do share my phone number with a handful of students that I work with, but I make it very clear that I reserve the right to not respond outside of business hours. I also try to do a really good job of working when I'm at work and not working when I'm not at work. So try to be really thoughtful about turning off notifications to technology and Teams, Outlook, all of those different pieces so that I'm not really distracted by or getting sucked into work while I'm not there.

Sarah Edmonson [00:44:45]: I also try to think about, like, if I need to do work outside of my kind of typical work schedule, which what is a typical work schedule in student affairs, but I try to be thoughtful of, like, is this urgent? Do I need to do this now? Or, like, can this really wait, and can I prioritize it, you know, tomorrow or when I have a moment? End up really doing better work because I think part of that balance piece is having a healthy, productive life outside of work and and then supporting that culture for my staff. Absolutely. And so really encouraging them to take their vacation time, to take flex time where it's appropriate, to have varied interests outside of work that does not that have nothing to do with work. And I think modeling those things for our students and explaining that of, like, I'm not gonna get to your email that you sent at 8PM until tomorrow or maybe even the next day, depending on what I've got going on, especially if it's not urgent, and saying, like, we don't need to buy into this this hustle culture or this everything is urgent culture when everything is not necessarily urgent. There are some things that are, but outside of that, we need to be really thoughtful and model for our students what is productive and healthy.

Dr. Sheila Carusel [00:45:48]: Hi. I'm doctor Sheila Carussell. I work at Ohio Northern University, and I'm the director of pharmacy student affairs. I've been in student affairs for over twenty five years, and I think one of the best ways that we, as professionals, can model the healthy excellence in our lives and supporting our institutional cultures is to really work on showing that work life balance. And so what that means is whenever it's possible, leave your office, go have fun, go home, and do what's best for you. Talk with your students about your hobbies. Talk about how you de stress and that you can refill how you refill your your cup for the students.

Sylvester Gaskin [00:46:38]: Name is Sylvester Gaskin. I'm a leadership development program leader for the Association of American Medical Colleges. We see this field as like an extension of ourselves when it may be at times we just need to see it just as a job, as a career, and to put yourself first. So the best advice that I got about this was actually from my father, who said you have to make business decisions. And sometimes the best business decision you could make is to just take care of yourself. And so in my experience, I didn't really model healthy behaviors and I ended up burning out, getting really sick. And I found that the institution really wasn't concerned about my own well-being. And so I see myself as the CEO of my own business and sometimes the best interest of the business is that I didn't go to a late night event or I didn't attend a meeting and and if I got in trouble for it, well, you know, that's just part of the business.

Dr. Alyssa Bivens [00:47:29]: So

Taylor Henderson [00:47:30]: Hi. This is Taylor Henderson. I'm the director of the Reliance Student Experience office at Texas A and M University's Mays Business School. I think it's really important to acknowledge challenge. I think sometimes we find ourselves in our profession staying late, helping students with things after hours, before work, after work, on the weekends, and just we feel such a responsibility to be 100% available because we know that the student experience happens primarily of their classroom. And I think that that is an unrealistic expectation for any profession. And it's an unrealistic model for us to put in front of students whenever they see us as working professionals. So I think, you know, establishing boundaries and showing them that it's okay to have boundaries for for yourself and to take care of yourself is just so important.

Terrence Duffy [00:48:17]: Hi. My name is Terrence Duffy, t. I'm a first year graduate student at Baldwin Wallace University in the leadership in higher education program. My biggest thing is boundaries. People always assume boundaries just kind of mean those are your you will not pass. It's like, no. It's just setting healthy boundaries with not only where you work or your school work because, you know, you do need a break from time to time. So I think showing them that, yes, as professionals, we work hard and long sometimes.

Terrence Duffy [00:48:44]: Having those times where we're like, okay. We need to stop for a minute, take a step back and take a breather, I think is something that can really help show students that they can also do the same, especially in their schoolwork.

Dr. TJ Pegg [00:49:02]: Hello. I'm doctor TJ Pegg from George Mason University in Fairfax, Virginia. Hello. I'm doctor TJ Pegg from from George Mason University in Fairfax, Virginia. I think as far as student affairs professionals and modeling excellence in our own lives and institutional cultures is really communicating our boundaries and letting students know that they have the ability to do that as well and setting their boundaries as within their program, setting their boundaries and how they're getting engaged on campus, and letting their professors, faculty, and staff on campus, and campus resources that they utilize know what their boundaries are so that they can be their best self when they're on campus. We talk to students a lot of times in the work that I do about meeting their own definition of success, and part of that is setting boundaries and communicating with those that are in their circle to support their experience.

Travis Tucker [00:49:55]: Alright. Hello there. My name is Travis Tucker. I use him as pronouns. I serve as the assistant dean and director of the Carley Field Center at Princeton University. I also am a member of the JSKC as the cochair elect. So when I think about healthy excellence, and thinking about marrying and monitoring healthy excellence in my life, I really think about creating proper boundaries. What does it look like for me to really model with navigating how to turn off my email at a given time? I'm really navigating expectations around what that looks like for my staff.

Travis Tucker [00:50:24]: I'm really encouraging them to really think about what it makes sense for them to do. I really don't ever try to put people into a box. I don't believe in toxic positivity when it comes to healthy healthy boundaries, and so really making sure that people have the that capacity to learn and lean into that is really important to me.

Val Shepherd [00:50:44]: Hi. I'm Val Shepherd. I'm a senior analyst with UCLA Recreation, practicing what we preach. Basically, doing the same things, modeling that for our students. We can't expect our students to do anything different than we do. Talking about our families, working across across disciplines, partnering with academic affairs, especially in student affairs. I've had wonderful partnerships with colleagues in the School of Public Health, for example. So I think definitely modeling what we would like students to do is how I see

Sabina Kapoor [00:51:21]: that. Hi. My name is Sabina Kapoor and I'm the new co chair, one of the new co chairs for the SAPA knowledge community with NASPA. I've been in higher ed for a little over twenty years and in that time I've served roles in student affairs, academic affairs, student success, and after a little over twenty years I decided to go back to school full time and pursue my PhD. So if all goes well, I'll get that by the end of this year. I think this is something where there needs to be an organizational cultural shift. While we can't focus on the whole institution, maybe just focusing on the student affairs division and the workplace culture there. And so I think it begins with leadership to say in student affairs to say, work life balance.

Val Shepherd [00:52:05]: And, you know, sometimes I think student affairs staff, they're so devoted to the job that they will maybe not do a flex schedule or compensate their hours that over work, you know, over forty hours or whatever the minimum is for full time. But there needs to be a workplace cultural shift to say, and we all know this, is that we all need to be healthy so that we can best serve others. But sometimes we get in a zone and we compromise our health, skip lunch to meet with the student or stay just two hours extra to finish decorating for an event the next day. And so the problem is that one, sometimes leadership doesn't realize that that's what you're doing. And then if you've agreed to work a certain schedule and you kinda veer away from that, then it's really hard for leadership to compensate at that point. So when I say cultural shift, I mean leadership mid level supervisors facing staff work together and be proactive with scheduling, knowing peak times, knowing when events are, etcetera. So I think this is a bigger thing and it requires an organizational or divisional workplace cultural shift. And this is including institutional cultures and that ties into that part of institutional cultures while supporting students' well-being.

Val Shepherd [00:53:27]: The key of this is that there is a servicing students. You can manage and operate in a way that you are serving students without overworking some individuals or student student affairs staff. You can work schedules can be arranged in a way to where they get a break and at the same time they get a break but at the same time they continue with that student service.

Vanessa Vera [00:53:55]: Hi. My name is Vanessa Vera. I'm a conduct education graduate assistant at the University of Colorado, Colorado Springs. I think what comes to mind is really a human centered approach to navigating student support and just the communication and relationships that we value in our life. I think sometimes just having grace with ourselves, having grace with our colleagues, having grace for our students, and that sometimes life happens to put it simply, and that there really is no right way to go about things. I think sometimes in the procedure of every day and the routines that we fall into, it's easy to get in a groove and expect things to go the way they do, but they never really do, and there's so much uncertainty every day in our lives that we navigate professionally, personally, and just in all spaces.

Dr. Will Simpkins [00:54:43]: This is Will Simpkins. I'm vice president of student affairs at Metropolitan State University of Denver. I think you have to make the time. You have to create the boundaries and make it a priority in your life. You can't be everything to everyone. And if your own internal sense of validation is how many people that I helped today, you're not helping yourself. And so always put at the front, what do I need to get through today? Whether that's coffee or a walk with the dog or a massage at the end of the day or a workout, whatever it is, put the boundaries around the work.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:55:25]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners, and we continue to be grateful that you spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at essayvoices@nasa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show, and please leave us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really helps other student affairs professionals find our show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:56:04]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:56:16]: time.

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Student affairs is a profession built on the foundation of supporting others—walking alongside students as they navigate challenges, pursue growth, and build their futures. But as highlighted in the latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, modeling “healthy excellence” goes beyond what we say. It’s about what we do, how we set boundaries, and the ways we show up for ourselves and each other.

So what does healthy excellence look like in practice? The episode features over 60 voices—new professionals, seasoned leaders, and everyone in between—offering authentic, actionable reflections on how we can care for ourselves while nurturing student wellbeing.

A recurring theme is the importance of role modeling. As Eileen Hentz notes, we need to set boundaries, carve out “off” time, and not feel guilty for prioritizing ourselves. This was echoed by many who admitted that while we tell students to take care of themselves, we often fail to follow our own advice.

But it’s about more than just taking a lunch or using vacation days. Dr. Bernard Little opened up about seeking therapy and the positive ripple effect it had on his staff. Others, like Camden Doolittle, spoke to the importance of authenticity, especially in representing marginalized identities—showing up as your whole self is, in itself, an act of healthy excellence.

Several speakers detailed the need to challenge institutional norms. From rethinking the “ideal worker” who is always on-call, to advocating for organizational culture shifts, this episode calls on student affairs divisions and leadership to normalize work-life boundaries (and yes, actually unplugging at the end of the day).

There’s also an emphasis on being transparent with students about our own challenges and the strategies we use to navigate them. As Jamie Haney and others shared, letting students know we are human too makes space for honest conversations about balance, imperfection, and resilience.

Most importantly, the episode reminds us that caring for ourselves is not selfish. As the expression goes, “You can’t pour from an empty cup.” By prioritizing our health—mental, emotional, and physical—we become better mentors, leaders, and advocates for our students.

If you’re looking for practical inspiration and validation from colleagues across the country, this episode is a must-listen. Tune in for real talk and real strategies that can help you and your institution make sustainable, healthy excellence a reality.

Catch the episode and join the conversation on nurturing well-being in student affairs—because thriving professionals create thriving campuses.

TRANSCRIPT

Amerette Ranieri [00:02:53]: I'm Amerette Ranieri. I'm from Texas A and M University in College Station, Texas. I am currently serve as the associate director of career services for Mays Business School. I think showcasing balance of, like, walking the walk and talking the talk. Right? Like, that's really an important aspect of student affairs that sometimes we don't do. We we tell students to take care of themselves, but we're not always taking care of our own selves. And so making sure that we take the advice that we give students most of the time. I know I'm really bad about that, but I sometimes will be, like, check myself and be, like, oh, right. What I would tell a student in this moment, I need to tell myself I need to get more sleep or I need to do this thing. And so I think that's really important.

Amy Law [00:03:34]: Hello. My name is Amy Law. I am a GAP from the graduate associate program with NASPA. I am from California. I currently attend the University of Southern California for my degree in post secondary administration and student affairs with my master's program. Especially as student affairs professionals, I feel like we can really model healthy excellence in our own lives and even contribute to that institutional culture by being student facing even as we go into higher levels that are not so student facing. I think maintaining a level of student support and student advisory, like, committees even and leveraging, like, student voices is definitely a perfect way to model healthy excellence because students know best what they need and students know best how to advocate for themselves. And if you are not, you know, in a point where you're at least, like, reaching out or asking them how they need the support, I feel like it's a little bit hard to understand them in that way.

Amy Law [00:04:38]: So always making sure that you have another set of eyes, whether it's from a group of students or even just one student, will make such a big difference.

Dr. George McClellan [00:14:53]: I think it's really important to to, a, to be tuned into yourself in that way, but, b, to be okay saying I need help, I need something, that sort of thing. I think a lot of people, particularly early in their careers, are so concerned that if they acknowledge any need that somehow they're confessing a great sin, but that's simply not the case. As you move through the field, I think what you can do is help the people who report to you. I'm not a I'm not a big fan of those hierarchies, but but to help those people who report to you in an organization know that it's it's okay to say those things. Right? That you can project a signal that says it's okay. And one of the easiest way to do that is for you to when somebody says to you, how are you doing? Just give them the sort of, oh, I'm fine. You know, everything's fine. Right? But it's, you know, I'm having an okay day, but I'm a little rundown today. Maybe not enough veggies, but today, I'm a little tired. So I think that's really important. And I think when it comes to institutional culture, it's the advocacy for prioritizing health and well-being. And, you know, we we have a million things going on. And as staffs are cut and there are funding reductions and resource reductions of all various kinds, it's gonna some of the first things that are gonna go if we're not advocating are taking care of staff. And so we have to advocate for ourselves. We have to be okay doing that.

Dr. Jeanna Mastrodicasa [00:22:00]: Hi. This is Jeanna Mastrodicasa, and I am the director of the Office of Institutional Assessment at the University of Florida. And I've been there for more than twenty seven years in a total of six roles. Really doing your very best to figure out what you can tell people you do with your time, being able to articulate it. It can be as simple as family time, catching up on the bachelor, whatever other inane things that make you a better human, but tell people that. So the other thing I think that I have done in my own career is I have been open with people about my own personal struggles challenges that I'm facing, both as a human being and part of a complex family and the whole thing. And I've been upfront about it and visible about using my time for mental health purposes. And And I think that's something I'm I'm doing for myself, but I'm really doing it to show people it's okay.

Dr. Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:23:26]: Julie Payne Kirchmeier, sheher pronouns, vice president for student success for the Indiana University System. That's not a system. We can call it a multi campus university if you would like. That whole concept of being balanced when you talk about work and you talk about outcomes and being driven in addition to being balanced with yourself. And so whether that's life, whether that is how you kind of navigate your energy even at work, how you set healthy expectations for yourself. Don't undersell it or you're not stretching enough. Don't overdo it or you exhaust yourself. And so that's kind of where I think that lies. And how can they do it? I think you gotta take an honest stock of where you are. What are the expectations that are placed on you and really think through how you can bring that concept of healthy excellence into the space. And I would also say that if you get to the point where you're like, this institutional culture is not supporting that for me and it's unsustainable, you gotta start looking. And I know that's hard, and for some folks, it's almost impossible. But for your own well-being, I think you gotta do it. I'm Justin Jeffrey.

Herbie Gibson [00:26:34]: Herbie Gibson, sheher, associate director of residence education for student learning and leadership, Michigan State University. So when I think about modeling a healthy excellence within the field, first it actually starts with us rethinking the ideal worker norms that exist within the field. We've been socialized to believe that we have to work these long days, that we have to be accessible at all times of the day to our students, and that in no way is healthy whatsoever. And so how are we rethinking the work that we are doing to serve our students? I would also say that rest is important. Take your paid time off because PTO also stands for prepare the others. And so making sure that you are engaging in rest, taking vacation time, setting boundaries as a way to reevaluate your relationship to the work, and that's ways in which you can model that healthy practice.

Nairole Njok [00:36:53]: My name is Nairole Njok. I'm currently a first year graduate student at Iowa State University in in the student affairs master's program, and I am from Omaha, Nebraska. I like to think about how we give tips to our students when it comes to their well-being and how we should actually be modeling those tips. And so it'd be really counterproductive if we asked practitioners are telling students to take care of themselves, set boundaries if we aren't doing that ourselves. And so living by your tips is how I'd see this. And I think in addition to that, being aware of the culture on your campus is really important because you're out of touch. It is really hard to support your students and to be able to kinda understand where their experience is when it comes to their well-being. If you aren't aware of what's going on on campus and especially since that will affect your students. And so being aware of what's going on on your campus, as it pertains to the culture and living up to your own tips slash expectations that you have for your students when it comes to their well-being.

Rachel Duvall [00:41:29]: I'm Rachel Duvall. I'm the associate director of volunteer engagement at NASPA. I am from Memphis, Tennessee. So how student affairs can professionals can model healthy excellence in their own lives and institutional cultures while supporting students' well-being. I think the really big thing here is to remember your roots in your professional journey and how you have evolved throughout the profession. Everyone's trajectory looks different, so honoring that in all folks. And so if your journey doesn't look the same as someone else's, really being conscious of that and supporting folks in whatever they decide to do in their current role, next role, and all that and encouraging them to get involved with the professional track that works for them. So if that's regions or knowledge communities with us here at NASPO or a steering committee, I think that is how you can encourage someone to find community at their institution or with a professional organization, but just supporting them in whatever decisions they make.

Ray Fisco [00:42:27]: Hi. Ray Fisco, he, him pronouns. I am from Colorado Springs, Colorado, and I serve NASPA as the assistant director of statewide coalitions, trainings, and partnerships. I think this is a really fantastic question. I actually run a coalition in Colorado where we have a campaign called the Time to Ungrind campaign, where it really looks at the culture around hustling. Because I know we as student affairs professionals fall into this culture, and we ultimately do see that with our students as well. So I think it's important that when we tell students about really taking care of yourself and really not falling into this culture of feeling like you have have to hustle and grind all the time to feel successful. I think it's important to model to students that, you know, it's important to rest. It's important to have self care. It's important to take a break. It's important to say no. Because especially in the field of student affairs, it's, like, very hard to say no. But when you're able to say no, that really shows growth, that really shows the opportunity to really be taking care of yourself and really be taking care of your own well-being.

Dr. Alyssa Bivens [00:47:29]: So

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:56:16]: time.

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The latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field is not only a must-listen for higher education professionals but a rich resource for anyone seeking insight into the dynamic landscape of student affairs. Dr. Jill Creighton hosts a thoughtful conversation with Dr. Amelia Parnell, the new president and CEO of NASPA, as she reflects on her journey, the evolving challenges facing the profession, and her vision for the organization and the field.

Leadership Through Uncertainty

One of the strongest themes of the episode is leadership amidst change and uncertainty. Dr. Parnell candidly discusses stepping into her presidential role during a significant period of transition—mirroring the larger flux happening across higher education. She emphasizes the importance of staying calm, understanding the complexities of policy shifts, and making informed decisions, especially as national and state regulations impact campuses at breakneck speed.

The Power of Community

Dr. Parnell’s gratitude for the NASPA community—its staff, members, and peer associations—shines through. Her message is clear: while the challenges ahead are real and substantial, the strength of student affairs lies in its collaborative spirit and supportive networks. She notes that community isn’t just a buzzword. Whether through regional conferences, association partnerships, or simply reaching out to colleagues, being “in it together” makes turbulent times more bearable and productive.

Value and Impact of Student Affairs

A recurring point throughout the episode is the critical need to showcase the impact of student affairs, not just in crisis management or engagement, but as facilitators of student learning and success. Dr. Parnell calls for professionals to embrace data, tell their stories, and make a compelling case for the essential role they play across campuses nationwide. She encourages the field to move beyond simply surviving and towards thriving, both individually and institutionally.

Looking Ahead

Perhaps most inspiring, Dr. Parnell expresses optimism for the future. She predicts ongoing difficulty but also emphasizes resilience, adaptability, and the vibrancy of the student affairs profession. Her practical advice—utilize new NASPA resources, invest in community, focus on continuous learning, and center the student experience—resonates deeply.

Tune In for Insight and Inspiration

If you’re searching for honest dialogue and encouragement amidst challenging times, this episode is essential listening. Dr. Parnell’s warmth, expertise, and hopefulness will leave you feeling empowered and connected—ready to support your campus and each other as the field forges ahead.

Listen to the full conversation and join the ongoing journey with the NASPA community. Your work and your voice matter—now more than ever.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:53]: We're so glad that Amelia was able to make the time to come on the show. A little bit more about Amelia. Doctor Parnell is an accomplished higher ed leader and executive and an internationally recognized thought leader regarding current issues and emerging trends in the field. She's a passionate advocate for higher education as a tool for personal advancement and impact, and she seeks opportunities to partner with organizations and individuals who share her sincere commitment to centering students' needs. In her prior role as VP for research and policy at NASPA, she led many of the association's scholarly and advocacy focused activities and fostered partnerships with college administrators, researchers, grantmakers, and other higher ed professionals. As a frequent keynote speaker at national and regional conferences, Amelia presents on topics related to higher ed, student affairs, college affordability, student learning outcomes, and institutions' use of data and analytics. She's been quoted in The Wall Street Journal, The Chronicle of Higher Education, Inside Higher Ed, and the PBS NewsHour. Amelia recently completed four years of service on the board of directors for EDUCAUSE, where she was the chair of the finance and investment committee and the audit committee.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:55]: She's also the past chair of the Higher Education Equity Network or HEEN, a collective impact network representing more than 25 organizations at the forefront of addressing a racial equity in higher ed. Amelia enjoys opportunities to teach, and she's energized by making complex concepts easy to understand. She's had enriching engagements with students and peers as an adjunct instructor and lecturer, and she's the author of the book, You Are a Data Person, which she wrote to encourage all higher education professionals to discover and embrace their unique data identity. Amelia holds her PhD in higher education from Florida State University and master's and bachelor's degrees in business administration from Florida A and M University. Amelia, welcome back to SA Voices.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:02:35]: Thank you very much for having me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:36]: And we're recording just about two weeks post annual conference. It was lovely to see you in person and living in your element and leading a marching band from opening to Mardi Gras World and welcoming all of us to New Orleans. So we're thrilled to introduce you as NASPA president and CEO for the first time. In the past, we've had you on as VP of policy and research. So as we typically do, we love to open our show by asking you, how did you get to your current seat?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:03:03]: Well, I should tell you that I got a similar question yesterday in an interview with someone who asked if I'd always knew I wanted to work in associations. And I said, when I was in my, of course, undergrad program, I didn't even know about higher ed associations or higher education as a major. And then when I was doing my doctoral work, I knew about associations, but didn't necessarily see myself there. So I can say it's been a journey, but every step along the way has been part of the preparation. So first I'd say getting to this literal seat is involved a lot of association experience. So, you mentioned it before this role for nine years, I was that VP of research and policy. And then before that, I worked for a few years at another association, the Association for Institutional Research. So, those who know me know that I enjoy data conversations and that kind of helped with that.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:03:44]: And then prior to that, I spent seven years in state policy in Florida in an office that really felt a lot like the IR office or institutional research office for the legislature. So a lot of association industry experience, and then a lot of other things that fill in the spaces. So served on some other association boards, did some teaching, some writing, some research, public speaking, advisory board service, and all that together in addition to early, early days working on a campus. So I'd like to think that this opportunity now was several, several years in the making.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:13]: And just to plug some of your work, if you're a data nerd, Amelia has a great book out on data, so you should check that one out if you're a data and assessment person.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:04:21]: I think we all are.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:22]: Definitely. And I think more so now in the profession than we were, you know, five, ten years ago. Even the data has begun to speak differently than it has before. Mhmm. But you've been in the NASPA presidency just under a year now. So how is it going?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:04:35]: It's going very well. Now I can say, like many others in higher education, has not all been easy. But I would definitely say it's been more bearable when you're in a welcoming community, and I'm glad to have that. So specifically, the membership has been really welcoming. I had an opportunity to go to almost all the regional meetings, over the past year. This one, the Western Regional, but I'll see them at their meeting this year. The membership in general has been very kind and welcoming. Get a lot of emails.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:04:59]: The challenge I have is to respond to all of them in a timely way. The board has been very supportive and enjoyed that partnership and looking to build on that. NASPA staff are great. This feels like a commercial, but truly, it it really has been nice. The my neighbor association, some of those CEOs and presidents have immediately reached out. So I feel a sense of community that I was already there, but just feels different in this new role. So it's going really, really well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:19]: I know you're gonna love Western Regional. It's one of my favorite conferences as a former region fiver. So I'll give a shout out to Josie Alquist and Kim Halapa who are the chairs of NASPA Western Regional this year. You're gonna have a great time.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:05:30]: Okay. Okay.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:31]: But as we look at kind of you incoming to the presidency, I kind of think of doctor Lauria White's journey as well. She started her presidency, like, five seconds before COVID hit the world. You started your presidency right amidst a major presidential transition and policy transition. And coming from your policy background, I'm sure that has been maybe some unexpected turns, in your first year. So can you talk about kind of your philosophy behind navigating all

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:05:57]: of it? Oh, absolutely. I don't wanna downplay it and say, oh, I was ready for this. No big deal. That type of thing. But I can say some of my earlier experiences in my career have certainly helped me for this moment. And the first I'll say is that it's never a single person's responsibility. Although being in a role like president, you are asked to make a lot of decisions and that might be a partnership with the border. It might be this is in your scope of influence.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:06:18]: What are we gonna do? That type of, I'd say, heightened responsibility, I'm not necessarily new to it. I've been able to be a part of, like I said, the NASPA executive team for a while. It's a different role, but it did give me some direct exposure to kind of how NASPA should be able to move and navigate in these environments. In terms of the specific policy angle, that's where my state policy experience in Florida. And if anybody watches the news, Florida has been in the news for a while. And so I worked in Florida policy at a time when, just like now, Florida was in the news, and there were a lot of moving discussions that put me right in the middle of making decisions in a difficult time. So nothing prepares you for the moment that you're in because you've never seen it before. But the environment, one that you could probably say is a little bit uncertain, unexpected, a little bit challenging, I've gotten able to be uncomfortable in those situations.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:07:02]: So what I would say I've learned is to not panic. It's hard to do, but it's definitely relevant. Try not to panic. We make better decisions when you have a chance to sit and think. Maybe not in abundance of time to sit and think, but, number one thing for me I'd say is make sure you understand everything possible that you can, that you can absolutely absorb and try not to panic because you can make better decisions when you have a clear head.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:22]: I think that not panic moment is really important in higher ed right now. I've been in the public policy division space for NASPA for, I think, like three terms now. And I was having a conversation with Gaut Sheehan, who's the outgoing policy chair for us. And he and I gave a presentation, like, a couple of years ago called something like why public policy should matter to higher ed pros.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:07:44]: Talk about foreshadowing.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:45]: And I just remember us being like, how do we get people to understand this is important to their work and how much that has shifted over the last couple of years where we're now in a space where policy is moving at us at what can really only be described as a breakneck pace. And so I'm not asking any of us in the field to agree, disagree, or be undecided about what these policy changes are and mean. What I'm really asking us to do is to take a look at how it's affecting our campuses and our students because regardless of how we personally feel about it, it's happening, and it's happening in ways that affect our campuses. So aside from remaining calm, kind of that keep calm and carry on, what advice do you have for campuses who are trying to keep up right now?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:08:24]: Yeah. Absolutely. And and before I answer that, let me add on to your point about your session with Scott. I've said this many times, kind of in jest, that I feel prepared for this moment because the the nine years I spent leading the research and policy area, those were two areas that when you say, hey, you know, would you like to sit down and talk about some data? Those people will be like, I don't know. That's my favorite topic. Maybe we'll get back to you and and talk another time. And if it's policy, oh, well, you know, I've got a colleague who does our policy stuff. And so this idea that these two big buckets and they're they're really kind of linked research and policy together were areas that we needed to be paying attention to closely anyway.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:08:55]: And this feels like the right time to elevate that. So I appreciate your question. And I would say, I see the thing, keep calm. I don't want to say carry on because I feel like that could be dismissive of what it means to be working in the field. But the calm nature means as you are still going through these difficult times, try not to be too overly overwhelmed. I'd say about what's going on. In terms of specifically what we can do, I think I can think of three things. The one I'd say to anybody, this is a great time to learn as much as possible.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:09:19]: And I know that the news outlets give us news and they give us updates, but there are certainly other opportunities for us to really understand how does a bill become a law? How does the law become a rule? How does the rule turn into policy? What's the difference between the executive order and, act of Congress, things like that. This is the time where if you you're not quite sure, ask somebody, see if you can read up on it. I know we talk about Schoolhouse Rock and the basics. It's okay to go back to the basics because I think in this time now it helps us have deeper conversations about what our options are. Got to understand what's going on. That ultimately will lead to the space of influence, which will be your campus policies or campus decisions. And so it all fits together. I think that's number one.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:09:55]: Learn as much as you can. In terms of supporting students, I think it means consistency. You know, for as much as things are changing all around us and we as professionals see this, students are still coming. They're still coming to class. They're still going home, still making plans, and they're looking to us to still provide some consistency in how we're going to help them navigate their college experience. I know it's hard, but they, I think, could give us a signal of where we could go to support them. And then I'd say the last, I just got to double back down on the idea of informed decision making. We haven't gotten to that question yet, but I feel like to some extent that that pairs well with not panicking, because if we have an abundance of information about what's been working, where our places of improvement should be, this is a good time.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:10:33]: And we're being kind of pushed into those conversations, by not rushing. Maybe moving at a faster pace, but not rushing to every quick decision that gives us a chance to take a fresh look at some information and data that we might already have in partnership across the campus. So that's gonna bring us closer together.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:47]: I will plug that Schoolhouse Rock piece on YouTube because it does hold up. It's the policy process is exactly the same. And one that I also like to include is the more r rated version by Saturday Night Live, which is about executive orders. So go watch that one. It's definitely not child or office friendly, but in your spare time, go check out that one because it's also pretty much accurate. But we are also in a space where all of the federal personnel that campuses may be used to talking to for investigations or there's currently, you know, we know the list of 60 and things like that going on. How might you advise campus professionals who are trying to do their best to comply with federal regulations knowing that their staff or relationships have all changed, how do you recommend people begin to re navigate this new landscape?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:11:31]: So that's a specific question I could imagine that impacts those who are used to having an ongoing connection to the department, and that would include me. Before this current administration, the previous administration, we would get invited to have a closed conversation here or convening there or some type of email exchange that would say, this is what we're considering. Can you tell us maybe a perspective of student affairs professionals? And to not have that has been a little, little tough because number one, it gives you access into conversations that might be emerging into something later. But also it kind of gives us a chance to prepare in advance. And so to not have that, it does feel acutely more difficult than previous situations. This is a place where I would say associations can actually support with the membership though. So even though I may not have that direct line to as many department professionals as I previously did, a lot of associations do have connections to the Hill. And so NASPA doesn't do direct lobbying, but we do a lot of advocacy work, which connects us to other associations who have that type of capacity.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:12:22]: So I think that's a place where associations can help members understand a little bit of what's going on. Now, naturally, we can't share everything that we've heard, especially if some of it is speculative, but it does help us be a little bit ahead and prepared. So some of the things that we're seeing right now, those conversations, I think we, we got a little bit of a heads up of what might happen. And of course we all are speculating to some degree, but we had a little bit of a head start, maybe a few weeks ahead or maybe a couple of months in other cases. So I think in terms of those individuals who might be doing work where they normally would have to engage, maybe you're doing iPads reporting, or maybe you're doing something that directly connects to one of the departments. I think that's a place where associations can help a little bit. Now we don't have a Rolodex to offer and new people to connect to, but I do think those specific questions, they would be looking to associations to help them unpack a little of those unanswered questions.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:06]: And you kind of mentioned it already, but NASPA has enjoyed really positive relationships with other higher ed associations that are DC based for a good long while now. We even, I believe, shared an office with a couple of them for a while. So knowing all of that and knowing that you all are very connected, it's, I think, important for our members to know that we're not alone, that student affairs professionals aren't there floating out in this world of change without the scaffolding of other professional associations around us. So can you talk a little bit about how NASPA's working with those other associations or how they're weathering the storm with us as we work through this process?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:13:37]: Sure. There are some natural groupings of associations. So for those listening, I'm not sure if everybody knows, but there are probably at least 50 different associations that touch or connect to higher education in some way. And some of them are larger comprehensive associations like NASPA that covers a suite of departments and units like we have. And then there are some that are specifically focused on one area. So you might have both NASPA, but then you also have ACUOI, which is specifically focused on housing or my previous association AIR. So those associations, we get together from time to time to share what's going on. Now, again, we don't open up our professional diaries and share everything that's going on, but we do talk about the impact of some of these changes that are completely impacting higher education and how it's impacting us specifically within our membership in our particular area of influence.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:14:20]: So that leaves a lot of space for us to compare notes and say, have you considered this or you had considered that? We all have different levels of capacity, even down to the amount of policy and advocacy staff we have. So those who might have a little bit more, they might take up a little bit more of the, the time to give updates. Those of us who have a little bit less, we might spend more time listening, but we can still offer context. So I would say there's a great imperative across the associations from my POMO perspective that we share with each other. Not that we didn't previously, but in a time like this, there's not that type of competition that you might think, well, who can get out first? Who can be the best at this? I think there's an ongoing commitment to say we literally all are experiencing something similar. We're better together by, by having these conversations in a way that helps us see where the opportunities for partnership are at a very limited level conversations. And so it's been nice for as much as a difficult time can be nice. It's been nice to be able to go to those meetings and not have to be concerned about someone trying to have ulterior motives.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:15:13]: I haven't experienced any of that, and I don't think it'll be that way for the foreseeable future.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:17]: I always get a bit of a nerdy kick out of the fact that there's, like, associations for associations.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:15:21]: Yes. There's an association for associations if there's a big one, ASAE.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:25]: But given all of that, I also know that NASPA has come out with some new resources for members to help us look at all of these things, specifically the policy hub. Can you tell us a little bit about the policy hub and any other resources that NASPA is currently putting out for members?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:15:38]: Yeah. So I have to give credit to the NASPA policy and advocacy colleagues that we have, both the policy division, the policy and advocacy colleagues on the staff, and others who have been really influential in creating this, the executive team. I should stop naming names because I'm gonna leave somebody out. The idea behind the public policy hub was that we would have a space where individuals who are saying, hey, I see executive words are happening, or this dear, dear colleague letter. I'm trying to keep up with everything. So rather than number one, have to try to bookmark a certain email here or flag a certain news article there, they would have a centralized place to catch up on all the news that would be relevant to higher ed with that student affairs lens. So it's a central location for that. Beyond that, there are places where we can actually do a little bit of a summary.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:16:16]: So if a document is exceptionally long, they may be able to read, not the cliff notes, but give me the summary of what this might mean for student affairs. Now we don't have legal guidance in there. So if someone's listening to this and they're like, oh, I know exactly what to do because the resource hub is going to tell me, that's not it. We would still suggest that because each campus is different, that you talk with your legal counsel and other policy experts, but it does provide a level of translation and curation that I think feels a little bit easier to absorb than what you might see a flurry of emails and newsletters and things like that. So we try to do our best to highlight everything that's happening within real time. And so if something happens at 2PM on Tuesday, then maybe don't check it at 3PM, but very soon after we would have something there, a bit of a summary and something that says considerations. I'd also want to highlight that the public policy division, to a point you just, you just named, they're watching these things very closely. The, the leadership team meets monthly.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:17:03]: They had several sessions during the annual conference. And I know they're probably thinking of some virtual things they can do throughout the rest of the year. In addition to that, probably our regional meetings will have more of that stuff too. So long story short, the policy hub, we're still building into it. Every time something happens that we think would be relevant, it's organized by topic area and by timing of when things occurred. So there's a there's a lot in there. A lot of good stuff in there.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:24]: We've talked a lot about policy, but policy is not all that NASA is. It is a member experience. It's learning. It's resources. It's publications. It's access to other members, its conference gatherings, all of the things that create community in the student affairs profession, in my opinion. So I'm wondering if you can talk about NASPA at large, bigger NASPA. What is your vision for the typical member experience and where you hope to drive the association in kind of the foreseeable future?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:17:51]: As a membership association, I think the main thing for me will always be the main thing, which is that with, in this case, 14,000 individuals, I want everyone to feel like what they get from NASPA is worth their investment. Now, also understanding that everybody could want something different. That's sometimes challenging, but I'd say at the core, some come to NASPA for the community. Then it's not that these are mutually exclusive, but it does help to be in community with someone who understands your job, does a similar role. I mean, you have shared experiences together. Others will come because they really want to know what's going on, what they can expect in the future. So current and emerging topics, and coupled with that would be a place to learn, learn with each other, learn from each other, a place for scholarship, for research, and all those things. And there may be a long list of other things that people would expect from NASPA.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:18:34]: But regardless of what that mix of expectations is, I think there are three things that I hope everybody will experience to some degree. I hope that they would see NASPA as timely, like a timely organization that regardless of what's happening in higher education or student affairs, they feel like we're on the cusp of what's current, that we can be a place for them to come and be informed. I really want it to be tailored. Something about the comments that I made during the opening session that people keep telling me about is when I made the connection to Netflix. The idea that Netflix really understands what types of films I want to see, short stories I want to see, and they always put those right in front of me. So, that's an opportunity for us to use our data to make that experience for each individual as tailored as possible. So, that though we have a lot to offer, we figured out exactly which things matter most to which people. And then lastly, because I'm just a nice person.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:19:20]: I want us to be thoughtful. I want us to have everything from our messaging to our experiences and our conferences, to all of our interactions to be developed in a way that's thoughtful. Now, again, that's subjective, what's thoughtful to one, someone might say it's no big deal, but I want the intentionality of this relationship between NASPA and its members to be as clear as possible. That I want it to feel like a very thoughtful and tailored and timely organization.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:42]: What's most important to NASPO right now?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:19:44]: It's the same thing I would probably say to anybody. We gotta be close to the membership. And I don't like to compare crises, but I would say during the pandemic, we made a a conscious decision to say we wanted to lower the the cost of the annual conference, for example, just to make it so that more people could actually stay involved. And it's not that I'm looking for this exclusively as a business. I'm looking at it really to say, we have a hard time having community with no people. And so what's important to me is that we have individuals feel like they can still be connected to us and have access to what we're doing. We're going to make it through this. I really do think that this is a difficult time, but it's not impossible, but we need a community that's together, that's able to connect and share with each other what we know, and that will get us through this difficult time.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:20:21]: But what's most important is that we have the community. So I wanna be able to deliver some decisions that will help us get to that point now and for the foreseeable future.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:29]: I think this is a really important message that, you know, NASPA's focus is not whiplashing with the things that are changing, but a continual focus that ultimately, it's a member organization, and we're here to support each other and to serve the needs of the profession. And keeping that mission at the core, I think, is really gonna be seen by the members as we move forward.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:20:49]: I hope so.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:50]: At the conference, you made four predictions, and you asked four questions of higher ed. And I think these are really important to share, especially for those who were not able to attend the conference or for those who only got to see it live or wanted more time to reflect that. We can go there a little bit. So I'm gonna start with the predictions. The first thing you predicted was that things are gonna be hard for several years, but we're going to survive. Can you talk more about that?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:21:12]: Yes. I would say we I could think of higher ed in the the long term. So I almost wanna make the connection between that and the stock market. And those who are finance nerds. If I weren't studying higher ed, I'd be looking more at financial markets and things like that. But oftentimes when people talk about investing, they say, maybe don't look at one to two years. You know, what's happened this year compared to last year. If you look at the market over time, it always rebounds now.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:21:34]: So realize that this is coming out at a time when the markets right now are tumbling. So I'm hoping that this analogy still holds. But the idea is that if you took a one hundred year period, you would see very few fluctuations. If you were to look at the diagram, The idea is that it's mostly consistent and it will probably rebound. Even during periods of recession or depression, the market will rebound. I don't want to make a one to one parallel, but I will say higher ed does need to change. And we all realized that that was not new, but I don't see a situation in which all of higher education will ultimately crumble. We will survive.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:22:03]: And in the keynote, I said, there are some places where I think we will actually continue to thrive. We're not doing all this work for nothing and not everything is going bad. I realized that the news cycles would have you believe that everything is going in the downward direction, but there are still students who are having a very good college experience. There are still campuses that are having vibrant experiences within student affairs, amid all of these challenges. So when I say survive, I mean, we're still going to be here, but it's not going to be all bad. I think there'll be some very, very hard challenges that will point out to us places where we were a little bit more vulnerable and we'll approve on those things. And ultimately we will thrive because we will be better at rebounding. And I say reacting and then being proactive for some things that are coming.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:22:42]: So, long winded way of saying, I think that things will be hard because they're already hard, but I don't think that we will be in a place where higher it will ultimately crumble. We will survive.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:50]: Your second prediction dovetails here, which is that NASPA will thrive.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:22:53]: I think I said alliteration. If I had the the timely thorough alliteration there, I want to use another one with the letter V and just say, I've said this in a couple of interviews that I think NASPA will continue to be a valuable, vibrant, and versatile organization. I use those three things intentionally. So I always say valuable and that if someone comes to NASBA, I want them to feel like they got what they expected to some degree. Now, again, trying to do that for $14,000 that's a little hard, but there should be some value. There should be some value there. It's the same way I want to emphasize the need for us to show the value of student affairs in the larger conversation. Vibrant because we're a wonderful community.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:23:26]: We bring all kinds of differences, backgrounds of perspectives of cultures, you know, just all kinds of things that make a really wonderful mix of experiences, which is why I think we had such a great time in New Orleans. And then versatile because we're big enough. And I feel fortunate to say this, that we can pivot if we need to. And I almost hesitate to say that word pivot because we use it so much during the pandemic. But versatility in the sense that with the membership that goes across so many functions within student affairs and so many levels of involvement from senior leaders all the way to those who are studying at the graduate level. Of course, we're going to be versatile, so we can do a lot of things simultaneously. And I think that's, that's one of the things that makes the Aspen special.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:02]: Your third prediction is that student affairs will become more collaborative, which I think is an interesting one, because I feel like as a field, we're already pretty collaborative and sharing practice. What does this mean in practice?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:24:13]: Yeah, I think about it in terms of the student affairs function on a campus, and I'll give some shout outs here. Not that I have any favorites, but the things that come to mind. So there are a lot of other areas of a campus that are doing what they would describe as student success work. They may not say student affairs, but student success work. In the Kubo, for example, they just released recently a student success hub. And so I think that was some intentionality to say that there is a connection between business decisions and and ultimately trying to help students succeed in college. And so I could see the collaborations between student affairs and the finance office being one, student affairs and IR, student affairs and technology. As you can see within a campus, I think we're going to have even more collaborations than what we currently have.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:24:50]: Nationally, I'd say at a broad level, there are lots more collaborations across associations. And whether those be funded by philanthropy or just started up because of shared goodwill and interest, I really do think, pointing back to that earlier question about the association community, we're gonna see a lot more collaboration, and I'm excited about it. I'm happy for the number of student affairs associations that came to the NASPA conference too, off the invitation. I I really feel grateful that they came and spent the time with us. And your

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:14]: fourth prediction was that we were going to have a fantastic twenty twenty five annual conference. So I wanna give a huge shout out and congratulations to doctor Akira Bradley Armstrong, who was the annual conference chair. It was a fantastic conference. I believe we had about 6,200 attendees.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:25:28]: 6,600.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:29]: 60 six hundred. That's nearly 50% of national members. Is it usually that high? It felt really vibrant this year to me more so than maybe past years.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:25:39]: I think it's the largest one since the pandemic happened. So we've had a couple that were larger than that, like, over 7,000, but this was the largest one we've had since coming back from the pandemic. And now since I gotta say some thank yous, I definitely Akira and the whole conference leadership committee, they did a great job. We had thousands of volunteers who did everything from help direct traffic to work at the membership area, the registration area. We have a lot of volunteer help, which was great. The board was really fantastic. The staff was great. Of course, a lot of staff of the hotels and the convention center.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:26:06]: So it takes a lot of work. That project, I would say the conference itself starts at least maybe eighteen months to two years in advance. All the details, the local arrangements committee. I mean, just a lot of people put a lot of work into this. So, I had a good feeling it was going to be good, but I think when I said it, I should have put fantastic and bold. It was a really, really, it's a really good experience. And it was kind of like a metaphor because anybody who was there in person on Saturday might recall we had some really, really just turbulent weather. It was really, really windy.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:26:34]: And unfortunately there were some tornadoes nearby that touched down. And so, to go from that really windy stormy day to Sunday at the opening in the evening, and the sun was shining, and it wasn't too hot, it wasn't too cold, and we got to go to Mardi Gras world. It was truly like the sunshine after the storm, which nobody would have planned it that way, But to go into that idea that I had, that higher ed will actually be fine on the long term, it's going to look different. Truly, I think it will feel different. It'll be different, but the sun's going to come back out. That sounds so cheesy. I know. I know.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:27:04]: It sounds so cheesy. I know. I know. Just go with me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:06]: Our co producer on the podcast, Chris, he actually got diverted to Mobile, Alabama and spent, like, several hours on the ground in Alabama trying to get note to Nola. I was several hours delayed out of my connection as well. And so some of my amazing colleagues actually had to present part of the pre con on my behalf. So we all got there, though.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:27:23]: It was rough.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:24]: You also asked four questions of the profession and of higher ed. The first being, what does the increased state in federal involvement in higher ed mean for student affairs staff? And you talked about specifically more difficult conversations and an ongoing urgency to explain implicitly the value of student affairs, which I think a lot of us felt like we were finally seen in COVID in terms of what we were contributing to the higher education experience. Presidents were leaning on student affairs more than many other parts of their university administrations to help the institutions thrive. But have we backslid? Are we going in a different place now?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:28:00]: I don't think we backslid. I think the current state of us using data to show the value and impact is where it previously was. And I'll, I'll use your example as maybe my starting point for my response. So I think for a while, and this is back to maybe even two or three years into my role as VP for Research and Policy, when I started to spend more time outside of just student affairs and talking with some provost and presidents and things of that sort. So I oftentimes hear a description of student affairs that fits into one of three buckets. Number one, the obvious one that you just named, that student affairs professionals are great in a crisis. And I'm happy that we are. So the crisis in that case being COVID, that we are trained professionals to be able to handle the unexpected events that could be unfortunate in nature.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:28:41]: That's really good. But if we're not careful, we would end up being put in that box and we stay there, which is that we need student affairs. The value of student affairs is that we need someone to handle a crisis. And that's not where I want us to be. On the completely opposite end of the continuum, you have someone who would say, I'm so glad we have student affairs. They are the best at engagement activities. We have orientation, we have clubs and activities, all kinds of things that make students feel welcome and belong. And we absolutely need that.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:29:03]: And I'm happy that that's part the portfolio. But if we're not careful, you'll see articles that come out and describe student affairs as balloons in the lawn and pizza parties and things of that sort. And we need those things too. Those are elements of helping students feel welcome and comfortable, but we're more than that. And we're more than crisis. The middle piece, the third narrative that I want to see pushed more, and it started a little bit during the student success wave when there was a student success agenda for everybody, whether it be conferences or roles and things like that, is that we are facilitators of learning. That those very same things that employers say that they want and graduate schools say they want, critical thinkers and those who can communicate well and solve complex problems, we are facilitators of those things. And so when I said we need more data to show the value and impact, it's impact across all three.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:29:45]: We're doing fine on the crisis management. Even without extra data, people know that we're getting a crisis, and they know that we are very good in engagement. But we need an extra effort, additional effort to show the real impact that we have for every student who engages with advising of any type. The likelihood of them persisting in major is this, the likely of them, likely of them moving toward graduation and completing a credential. It's this. That's the missing piece that I think. So I don't think we've gone backward. The two very clear narratives are just as clear as they were years ago, but I want to push a little bit more to see that that value and impact conversation expands beyond what I would say are the two prevailing narratives at the time.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:20]: The second question you asked is NASPA changing its strategy for supporting the profession. And your response on stage was that it's changing some of the strategies for supporting the profession, but we still have a major focus on learning and data, inform portfolios and resources. Anything you wanna elaborate on here?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:30:38]: Yeah. So the the new and the different. The different pieces that I really want us to be more data informed. And so on stage, I made the example of Netflix that basically, if we do the best we can with this abundance of data that we have, I should know that doctor Jill likes to read articles that are on this. And so when we write you, I feel like at least a section of that update email should say, check out the latest that we have on the areas that interest you. So that part should be new. We're not behind in that regard, but we have definitely a lot more opportunity that we haven't leveraged yet. The more things change, the more they stay the same, we're still a membership association, and we have a commitment to learning and community and access and all the things that I just mentioned earlier about why I feel like NASPA's commitment should stay the same.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:15]: Feel like there's an opening for AI to do some work for us here.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:31:19]: Could be.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:20]: Your third question, which I think is an important one, and one we've been talking about on the podcast for a long time now is is everyone leaving student affairs. And this question, the way we've talked about it on the podcast is really directed towards salaries and hours and things like that because of the level of intensity of the work, the credentials required for entry level positions, the constant tension with HR data about what the value of a position is and things like that. You gave some statistics, which is that eighty eight percent of people surveyed state that they would leave due to the salaries not being commensurate with their experience or their expectations of the position. And that sixty eight percent said that they have they have job duties that are not in their PD. That other duties as assigned box is something we all say a bit pejoratively, but it's a very real pain. And that sixty one percent plan to stay more than five years. So there's some things in the statistics that aren't wholly aligned, but I think the story hasn't changed a ton.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:32:20]: So with one caveat on the former pieces of data. So the eighty eight percent, we didn't ask them about what would make them want to leave. We asked them what they think others would leave for. So basically what we're asking, we said, hey, if someone were to leave the field in the next five years, why do you think they would leave? And then the 88% said, hey, this is probably going to be paid. To add to the ones you just named, another 84% said they think others will leave because of the stress of the work. Like it's just really hard work. The other 81% said they think others will leave because they feel undervalued and then you get to sixty eight percent. So the data are clear.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:32:49]: If I had to guess, it would be no different. Even if I asked someone, hey, John, why do you think someone else would leave at this 88% that said pay? Pretty good chance that John themselves would say, I too would have considered leaving for one of those four reasons. So for each individual, it may not be that their number one is pay, but I think those are still the top four, regardless of whether you're talking about yourself or someone else, which is why we followed up with that question of, well, what are you planning on doing? And 61% saying, okay, I think in the next five years, I'll probably stay. That's not exceptionally good news. It's not bad news, it's right in the middle, which is to say, there's the opportunity. And I'm thinking all the time about what would it take to get that 61% to trend upward instead of downward? Because even though they said, I think I'm planning on staying, amid all the things that you've just named, those are all reasons, you know, some of them beyond assets control. Like we can't control what campuses would offer in terms of salary, but we can offer some strategies for how to approach staff retention and not just keeping them there, but helping it be a thriving and valuable and vibrant profession that could move that 61% up instead of down. So you're right.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:33:48]: I think the biggest issue in student affairs has to be how we're going to retain individuals and pathways into the profession, not just to get into it for a few years and to say, I think I'm going to go someplace else, but to say there's enough space there for growth professionally. And hopefully, we'll see more people respond differently if we were to ask that question again. I'm kind of nervous to ask it right now, given everything that's happening in the backdrop of higher education.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:10]: That's fair, but it also leads very nicely into the fourth question you asked, which is, if things remain difficult for a while, how do we find and keep our joy in the profession? And I'm gonna quote you because I actually giggled. You said, we've got about 65, 60 six hundred attendees here in New Orleans. And quote, this might sound like a ploy for NASBA, but you chose to come here.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:34:31]: Yes. Yes. And I wanna celebrate that. I had to say it that way because ultimately, and you made a great point, that we had almost half the membership that came. And though each individual's experience is different, each campus' experiences are different, one of the best places you can be in a difficult time is in community. And so, there were so many people, and I realize I'm about to be that single person example, but there were a lot of people that I saw walking around the conference that actually gave hugs or high fives and they were smiling. And it doesn't mean that everything was perfect. It doesn't mean that they didn't come from some tumultuous situations, job losses and everything else.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:35:02]: But in this moment, when you're trying to find joy, like where can I find my small piece of happy in a difficult time? Something about being in community does help you manage that. So back to your first question, when you said, how's it been going so far? I had to quickly say it has not been easy, but it is much more bearable when you have a community of people that you know are welcoming and can say, Hey, I get it. I understand what you're going through. And that to me helps find and keep a little bit of joy in these hard times while we're waiting for this period of difficulty to pass through. And it will. The storm will pass through. We will have more coming, but this particular one, I'd rather be under the umbrella than somebody else talking about it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:37]: Anything else you want to share with the membership right now?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:35:39]: Gratitude, honestly, just gratitude. Everybody who's asked like, how's it going, though? How's it really going? How are you doing? How are you really doing? That's an extra question because I think we all get it. But this truly, in my remarks, I said this is just one of the best places I've ever worked, one of the best professions I've ever been a part of, and I'm grateful. I know that there's still a lot more hard work to do, and there are gonna be times when we're gonna be even more disappointed with the direction of things. I don't think that I'd be wise to tell anybody, hey, don't worry about it. Give it a couple of months. We'll be back stronger than ever. It's going to be hard for a while, which is why I said a few years, but I'm just truly grateful, grateful for all the volunteers and members.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:36:14]: And and even you for inviting me to the podcast, knowing my schedule wouldn't let me do it on on time in New Orleans. I'm just really grateful.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:20]: We're just glad to have you, Amelia. And now we are on to our theme questions for the season, which is the past, present, and future of student affairs. So I've got one question for you on each part of this theme. So on the past, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively let go of?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:36:39]: I have two. I wanna have two. I think the history of student affairs, which might map nicely to NASPA, is this opportunity for trying something new. We have a number of new things that I'd say if we never tried them, we wouldn't have something to build on. So everything from our institutes, specifically identity based programming, all kinds of things that we've said, Hey, I see a need here. We haven't previously done this. Let's try it. So I liked this idea of innovation.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:37:02]: At one point, I think we still do have that as one of our four guiding principles. So I like the idea that as things change, we can change with it. Student affairs can change too, inappropriate ways as necessary. I also liked that in the early history of student affairs, there's a lot of discussion about it coming out of a place of counseling or caring for others, something about community and that we're just, again, feeling particularly grateful right now. I think if there's a history of NASPA that's rooted in the idea that we should be caring about each other and for each other, I think I'd like to carry that forward too. In terms of letting things go, I would love to let go a little bit of this idea that you work until you're exhausted. You know, it's part of the change has to be a changing model for how we do student affairs work. So I do want us to start to let go of this idea that in order to do the work well, you have to work beyond what you're capable of.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:37:45]: It's really hard to care for someone else when you're not caring for yourself. So that's what I would say. I guess that's three things, That's three things.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:50]: On the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:37:55]: Advising and anything related to us supporting students and making their hardest decisions. And that's not me positioning advising as the best part of student affairs, because I think honestly, a lot of people in student affairs have advising roles, even if they don't have that title. So within the whole, I guess, continuum of student affairs work, students are still seeing us, talking to us, engaging with us. And I think right now, even in this backdrop of difficult policy developments, we're still giving council advice, support to students. I think we're still doing a good job at that. I really had this hunch that the best part of student affairs is that we are connected to students and they're going to give us real time indications of how things are going. So yeah, anything related to that. The second I'd probably say, even though you told me to give you one, we're still facilitating learning.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:38:37]: So yes, of course we're doing crisis management and we're doing engagement, but I think we are still facilitating lots of learning opportunities for students. And we're we're getting to a place where we're better at documenting that. Maybe that's another podcast episode for another time.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:49]: And finally, looking towards the future, in an ideal world, what does the field need to do to thrive towards the future?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:38:55]: Gotta be data informed. Gotta be able to do more than just say we're making an impact. We've got to be able to show with data and information what that impact is and how we can sustain it. I feel like the future is gonna require that of us. And I think we're moving in the right direction, but I feel like the field as a whole, we have the evidence because we've been doing the work, but we gotta be able to provide that and curate it to different audiences so that we could not just sustain ourselves and make a good case, but literally keep the good work going in a more intentional way.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:20]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:26]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. There is a new short course that's being offered through NASPA called Designing Campuses for Mental Health and Well-being. The course runs from May 5 to June 9. And in this essential short course, it explores the crucial intersection of campus design and mental health in higher education. As we navigate an academic landscape marked by increasing mental health challenges, it's clear that depression and other mental health concerns compounded by academic stress lead to negative outcomes, including higher dropout rates. This course highlights the the vital role of administrators in student affairs in fostering a culture of wellness and understanding on their college or university campuses. Through comprehensive insights from experts, the course will explore various mental health models, assess campus specific needs, and develop actionable sustainable strategies to enhance campus wide mental health.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:28]: Through this short course, you will join a transformative journey to better support your students and colleagues and create a thriving supportive academic environment. Another short course not to miss is happening between June 16 and July 21 called building a shared commitment to well-being. This short course is designed by members of the NASPA health safety and well-being initiatives team. In this short course, you will be guided by student affairs professionals through a comprehensive understanding of holistic well-being, focusing on fostering a shared commitment to well-being in educational environments, particularly through the integration Through this course, you will have the opportunity to cultivate, Through this course, you will have the opportunity to cultivate an inclusive culture that prioritizes the health and well-being of the entire campus community. You can find out more about either of these courses on the NASPA learning portal going to learning.NASPA.org. Also, today, I'm gonna give you a save the date for the NASPA symposium on military connected students. The next symposium on military connected students will be held in Norfolk, Virginia from February 17 through the twentieth, twenty twenty sixth. The twenty twenty six NASPA Symposium on Military Connected Students is the association's premier event designed for student affairs for student for student affairs practitioners supporting military connected students.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:06]: The Symposium is your exclusive opportunity to share evidence based practices from your campus or organization. Through this Symposium, you can learn from leading researchers in the field and engage with other professionals committed to supporting military connected students. This three day symposium features keynote sessions, research, policy, and best practice best practices presentations and workshop style sessions to help campus professionals develop or enhance their programming and services for military connected students. You still have some time as the early registration deadline ends on 10/27/2025, but sign up today to get ready for this amazing learning opportunity. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:25]: Where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:14]: Chris, thank you so much as always for keeping us informed on what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Amelia, we have reached our lightning round questions. And as a second time guest, we have slightly different set of questions for you. So I'm gonna change up the first one a little bit because you literally were just a conference keynote speaker, and you walked up to Before I Let Go Thank You by Starchild. You also said when you entered that you changed the song, like, four times. So can you tell us what the other songs were?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:44:40]: Yeah. So, well, the the song this version that I came out to, it was Before I Let Go. It was Frankie Beverly and Maze, but then on top of that, it was Beyonce's cover of it. So the ones that didn't make the cut, I'll give you two of them. And both of them were good for, for different reasons. Stevie Wonder is my favorite artist. And so it was gonna be Sir Duke that I came out to, but I saved that one for another time. I just really liked Stevie.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:44:58]: And plus I actually used that one at a conference in November. So I want to do something fresh. The other one is I love Whitney Houston, and I wanted to go with, I want to dance with somebody, but I was like, maybe that's going to take too long to get to the chorus. The intro people know, but I was like, nah, it just wouldn't work. And plus the one I picked had a little bit of a live band thing, which seemed to work with the New Orleans vibe. So, I landed there.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:17]: Number two, your undergraduate degree, and do you use it in your work now?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:45:20]: All the time. Maybe not the specific class related principles because it's been a couple decades since I was an undergrad, but, yeah, I was a business administration major. So being a president right now, I spend more time looking at business analytics than I ever have. So absolutely. I use it all the time. And the board kind of expects me to make sure that NASPA's financials are intact. And so, yeah, debits and credits and assets and liabilities and revenue and expenses. Absolutely.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:43]: Minor details. Minor details.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:45:44]: Minor. Minor details. Minor details. Yes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:46]: Number three, your guilty pleasure TV show binge.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:45:49]: Oh, I've been watching a lot of TV. I've been watching, because I do a lot of DVR. Beyond the Gates. It's a brand new soap opera that's on CBS. I've enjoyed that very much. I just finished Paradise on Hulu, which everybody at the conference told me I should watch, and I finished it in two days. It was really good. And like I said in the keynote, I did watch Love is Blind.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:46:06]: I I have to watch it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:07]: I heard this season called Love is Bland. Number four. If someone visits your city, Washington, DC, what's the one place they must eat?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:46:16]: Well, if if they're not opposed to eating meat, I would definitely say go to Ben's Chili Bowl. It's a staple of the city. You gotta do that. If you like sushi, I would say go to Oku. I feel like I I should be giving you one answer. So what are those two? I'll go with those two. Those are two spots I would go to.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:29]: Number five, your favorite work related podcast.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:46:32]: Oh, other than the MASP, the podcast. Don't say that? Let me let me go without one. I wanna say MASP. I should be listening to MASP, but that's the one.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:37]: Number six, your favorite not work related podcast. I listen

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:46:40]: to a lot of personal finance and investment type stuff. So it's not called everyday millionaires, and maybe it's they might be called everyday millionaires. But the idea that these are everyday people who have figured out how to make sound investments, not anything, like, quick, like day trading, but simple things that help them get to a place of financial stability. So I really like the idea that more individuals start investing early. And so hearing about people who made that journey just really excited to me, and they all have different paths to the same outcome.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:06]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:47:10]: Okay. So, the whole NASPA membership, even those who did not come to the conference, I just have to go back to my place of gratitude. I'm just honored and thankful to be in this role. So, shout out to everybody who's a member of NASPA and to those who are not a member of NASPA, but a part of student affairs. I truly think it's not exclusively about joining NASPA, but to be in student affairs right now, it's one of the most challenging and joyful times, play on the title of my keynote. So anybody who works in student affairs, hello to you all. Thank you so much for everything that you're doing for your campuses and for your students. Shout out to you and Chris.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:47:39]: Thank you for keeping the podcast going. This is a place where, when we have these conversations, I know you have to do a lot to curate it and get it ready. So thank you. Thank you to both of you and thank you to the NASPA staff and the board and everybody. So I think I probably covered just about everybody in that everybody in the field space. But personally, I would say I want to thank my sister and my brother-in-law and my friend, Tiffany, all who were in the front row for the conference. I'll never forget it. It was good to see their smiling faces.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:48:00]: And then lastly, to Kevin Kruger, who preceded me in the role, to Gwen Dungey, who preceded him, to be in this role, those two individuals, I've had conversations with them. They understand more than anybody what it's like to do the job. And to my mentor, Bob Schwartz, who along the way, that early, early question about my journey, he's been with me the whole time. And so I really hesitate to do this because I feel like I'll leave somebody out. But, yeah, that's my short but yet long list of people.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:22]: I do have to say after I think we've known each other for at least five, ten years at this point, and I didn't learn till the conference you were a twin.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:48:28]: Yes. I am.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:32]: That was my first time knowing that. Very cute picture, by the way, that you put up on this line.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:48:36]: Even though I was half smiling, barely smiling. Yeah.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:39]: Amelia, it's always a pleasure to speak with you. And I know a lot of our members would like to stay in contact with you. If they would like to reach you after this episode airs, how can they find you?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:48:47]: The best way is aparnell@NASPA.org. I check my emails on my phone all the time. I try to get back to folks as soon as I can. But if it's more casual and social, I'm on LinkedIn, but I don't really do as much there. But I'd be happy to connect with anybody there too. But email is probably the best place. Well,

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:00]: Amelia, it's been a pleasure to have you back on the pod. As always, we want to thank you so much for sharing your voice with us and the NASPA community.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:49:07]: Thank you very much for having me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:14]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners, and we continue to be grateful that you spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at essayvoices@NASPA.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show, and please leave us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really helps other student affairs professionals find our show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:53]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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In the latest episode of NASPA's Student Affairs Voices from the Field, Dr. Jill Creighton sits down with Dr. Richard Walker, President of the University of Houston Clear Lake, to explore the past, present, and future of student affairs in higher education. With over four decades of experience, Dr. Walker brings a wealth of knowledge and unique perspectives, having transitioned from a career in student affairs to the presidency. Here’s a glimpse into the key themes covered in their enlightening conversation.

Dr. Walker’s journey to the presidency is a testament to the value of diverse experiences and the encouragement of mentors. Initially set on retiring as a Vice President for Student Affairs (VPSA), Walker’s career took an unexpected turn when he was encouraged to consider a presidential role. His story underscores the importance of being open to new opportunities and the impact of leaders who recognize potential.

Once in the presidential seat, Dr. Walker’s student affairs background provided him with a distinct advantage. His approach to leadership is deeply rooted in fostering a holistic view of student success and engagement, emphasizing the importance of seamless support systems that include academic advising, student activities, and mental health services. His tenure at UHCL has been marked by significant achievements, including strategic partnerships with industry giants like Boeing and NASA, enhancing student career readiness through experiential learning.

Dr. Walker candidly discusses current challenges, particularly in light of recent legislative changes affecting diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) efforts in Texas. He shares the innovative strategies UHCL has employed to comply with new laws while maintaining robust support systems for all students, emphasizing the university’s commitment to providing a welcoming environment despite external challenges.

Looking forward, Walker encourages a continued focus on student success, affordability, and the evolving role of student affairs professionals. He highlights the need for institutions to adapt to changing needs, particularly in mental health services and career readiness, ensuring that all students have the support necessary to succeed academically and personally.

For student affairs professionals and higher education leaders, Dr. Walker’s insights offer a valuable perspective on navigating the complexities of modern academia. His dedication to student engagement, community partnerships, and strategic leadership is both inspiring and instructive.

Tune in to hear more from Dr. Richard Walker about the evolving landscape of student affairs and the vital role it plays in shaping the future of higher education. Whether you’re an aspiring university leader or a seasoned professional, this conversation provides rich insights and motivation to make a lasting impact in your field. Listen now to engage with the full discussion and gather insights that could transform your approach to student affairs leadership.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is season 12, continuing our journey through the past, present, and future of student affairs. I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Welcome back to Essay Voices from the Field where today we're bringing you the third conversation we had live and in person at the NASPA annual conference, this time with one of our keynote speakers, doctor Richard Walker. Richard joined the University of Houston Clear Lake as its sixth president on 05/20/2022, bringing over forty years of leadership experience in higher ed at both public and private institutions. Under his leadership, UHCL has experienced significant success. He led the implementation of the university's strategic plan, Impact 2025 and beyond, transform, translate, transcend, which has been pivotal in transforming student lives through experiential learning and workforce readiness.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:03]: This period has seen record breaking fundraising efforts with nearly $2,800,000 raised, surpassing the goal by over a million dollars. Additionally, the successful acquisition of 53 grants has yielded over 7,200,000.0 in funding for various educational and community projects in the twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three period. Under his leadership, the university has marked several notable achievements. During his first year, UHCL graduated its largest class ever with 2,427 students. Additionally, Walker's tenure has significantly increased the institution's economic impact on the local area, contributing $1,100,000,000, which equates to supporting 12,578 jobs in the university's service region. Moreover, UHCL has made considerable strides in national and regional academic standings. In the 2024 US News and World Report rankings, the university climbed 27 places to number 304 nationally and rose to number 12 amongst public universities in Texas. It also advanced 66 spots to number a 43 in the top performer for social mobility category among national universities.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:06]: Walker's impact extends beyond the campus as he actively contributes to regional and national development. He's a member of the board of trustees for HCA Houston Healthcare Clear Lake and the board of directors for Bay Area Houston Economic Partnership. He also serves on the executive committee of the Council of Public University Presidents and Chancellors or CPUPC. Strategic partnerships with major organizations like Boeing and NASA have provided invaluable real world experiences to UHCL students, further enhancing their education and career readiness, supporting community and workforce development. Recognized as one of our pillars of the profession here at NASPA in 2016, his dedication to education is evident in his administrative achievements and active involvement in various professional and honor societies. His vision for UHCL focuses on elevating the university among the top universities in Texas, enhancing the student experience, and anticipating educational needs to ensure UHCL's relevance and influence in an evolving workplace landscape. Prior to his current role, Walker served as vice chancellor for student affairs and enrollment services for the University of Houston system and vice president for student affairs and enrollment services at the University of Houston. He also spent twenty four years in significant leadership roles at the University of Miami.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:18]: Walker received his EDD in higher ed leadership from the University of Miami. He earned a specialist in education and administration and supervision from Middle State Tennessee University, a master of education administration and supervision from Memphis State University, and a bachelor of science in history from Middle Tennessee State University. He's also a graduate of the Harvard Institute for Higher Ed Management development program. Hope you enjoy our conversation. It was a delight to talk to Richard. Hi, Richard. Hey, Joe. Thanks so much for making time out of your conference schedule sit down with me.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:03:46]: It is absolutely my pleasure.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:48]: And for our listeners, our audio quality might be a little bit different today than you're used to because we're live and in person at NASPA in New Orleans sitting in a gorgeous, very fancy boardroom in one of the conference hotels. But you were on the panel this morning with three other university presidents who've come up through student affairs and are now sitting in the president's seat. So we always like to start our conversations by asking you, how did you get to your current spot?

Dr. Richard Walker [00:04:12]: It's an interesting story. So my career goal when I got in the field of student affairs was to become a vice president for student affairs. That was my, you know, the ultimate kind of goal for my career, which I achieved when I became vice president for student affairs at the University of Houston. And then I was with my boss, the president of the University Houston and the chancellor for the University of Houston system and her husband. One night at dinner, actually, we were at a c o a CEO in San Diego, and we were talking about what's next for both of us. And I said, what's next for you? What's your what are your plans? She said, what's next for you? And I said, I'm good. If you're good at my performance, I'm good at Houston. I can retire with you at Houston.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:04:51]: And she said, I really think you should become a college president. And I said, well, I'm very flattered, but I don't know if I really wanna do that. I watch what you do, and I'm like, not so sure I really wanna do that. So, anyway, years go by, and one Friday afternoon, September or the fall of twenty twenty one, she pops into my office and sits down. And you never know on a Friday afternoon when your boss pops into your office and sits down about, what was this all about? Please, there's not be a pink slip. She said, no. I need to make a change in the presidency at Clear Lake, and I want you to go down there and be the interim president.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:24]: Wow.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:05:24]: And I said, okay. And when would this be? She said, in two weeks.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:29]: Wow.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:05:30]: She said, but you don't have to tell me now. You can think about it over the weekend and get back to me on Monday. It's one of those things where you're not gonna tell her no. But I'm like, okay. I'll get back to you on Monday. So it's an interesting story because she's always thought I should be a president. I didn't really think I wanted to be a president, but I thought, you know what? This will be a test run. The agreement we had was I'd go down there for the academic year.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:05:50]: She was gonna do a national search, and then I'd come back to my position at the University of Houston. And so I got down there, and I liked it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:57]: Okay.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:05:59]: And everybody there kept saying, you're applying for the job. Right? And it's a closed search closed presidential search. The only people that knew about it was the search firm and the search committee. So I couldn't say anything. I just said, well, I'm thinking about it. And so I thought about it over holiday. She launched the search committee in December, went to see her in January and said, well, what would you think if I wanted to stay? We talked for a while and she said, I want you to do what you wanna do, but you'll have to compete for it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:25]: Okay.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:06:26]: Because I've already lost the search.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:27]: Mhmm.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:06:27]: I'm like, well, that's fair. So after ten years of not writing a cover letter and polishing up my resume, I had to get to work. And so I put my name in the hat. The search committee selected four finalists. Mhmm. I was one of the four finalists and actually had to interview for the job and was fortunate enough to be selected. And on May 2022, was named the sixth president of the University of Houston, Colorado. So I let her tell her you were white.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:06:52]: You know, it's a it's a funny thing about sometimes people see things in you you don't see in yourself.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:57]: Mhmm.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:06:57]: And this is one of those occasions. I've had several happen over the course of my career, but that's how I landed at being president of the University of Houston Clear Lake.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:05]: Your university is only 50 years old, which is, I think, really unique in American higher education in a public university, specifically. I mean, we see that all the time with for profits that are popping up and even some privates, but to have a young public like that is a very unique thing. I believe you said in the panel this morning that your institution exists because of NASA?

Dr. Richard Walker [00:07:24]: Correct.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:24]: How did that all happen?

Dr. Richard Walker [00:07:26]: So they formed the university before me in 1974 at the request of NASA. NASA really wanted a four year institution close to NASA where its staff could either finish an undergraduate degree or get a master's degree. So through the help of legislators in Texas, they formed the University of Houston Clear Lake, which was launched in 1974 as a upper division institution, so juniors, seniors, and masters. We later, in 2014, we went to downward expansion and started taking freshmen and sophomores. And in 2016, I had a doctoral program. So over the course of our fifty years, we've grown now into a full four year public institution. But it's interesting because we sit in in the city of Houston, but we're in the Bay Area. And that's very different event of the evening about Houston.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:08:13]: We're not downtown. We're not the main campus. We are literally on the interstate between downtown and Galveston. So it's called the Bay Area, and it's very unique because the industry that is thriving there is the aerospace and space industry. So I like to tell the story that NASA is literally in our backyard. They're our back backyard neighbor. Boeing is literally our next door neighbor, and the Houston Space Port is just down the road. So very community oriented, partnership oriented workforce development institution, and we're very different than other institutions within the University of Houston system in that we sit on a 524 acre wildlife reserve.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:50]: It's huge.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:08:50]: So we worry about deer, alligator, hawks. We don't worry about being in Downtown Houston where the University of Houston downtown has interstates running through your campus. And so it's a very unique opportunity to experience, and I think that makes us stand out as a unique institution and a regional comprehensive in the Greater Houston area.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:09]: Do you thought for a long time that the VPSAC was the pinnacle of career and and where you wanted to retire from ultimately? And, you know, you talked about having made the switch. I'm wondering how you look at higher education differently now from the presidency compared to when the VPSA role was a viewpoint that you had perspective from.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:09:28]: That's a great question. Let me back pedal a second. So I went in to be the vice president for student affairs at University Houston, the flagship campus, and then the University of Houston system, the vice presidents on the flagship campus were also vice chancellors for the system. Mhmm. Two years into that vice presidency, another opportunity on the Friday afternoon, the chancellor pops into my office. And she said, I'm reorganizing academic affairs, and I want you to take over enrollment management. Again, you don't tell the chancellor no. And I said to her, you know I don't have any experience in enrollment management.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:10:00]: I know. But I need you to turn it around. You've done a great job in student affairs. You can do it. So I said to her, if you think I can do it, I will give it I will give it my best shot. And I tell her that to say, I think she was setting me up because I had a student affairs background. Now she wanted me to have an enrollment background, and she said this will be good for your career, ultimately. So I've got the perspective of student affairs and enrollment management now just sitting in the president's seat.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:10:27]: So I think it has provided me with a unique opportunity. I don't come from the academic area. I've taught in both the master's and doctoral level in the College of Education at the University of Houston, but I'm not a full time faculty member. So I've got the faculty experience. But I think the unique part for me is that I'm truly a practitioner. So I know enrollment. I know student affairs. I've learned academic affairs.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:10:49]: I've got a great pro I know to hire a great provost to help manage all of that aspect of the institution. But I feel it allows me to have a very different perspective of the student experience and a different way to look at student success. And so I truly look at it holistically, and it's really about everybody being on the same page. No silos. You know, for a long time, this whole thing was about, well, what's the relationship between academic affairs and student affairs? And we talked about that a lot and even in Nasport, like, how do you bridge that gap?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:17]: And We're still having that conversation.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:11:19]: Still having that kind of you're trying. And but now I look at it from the perspective of it's everybody. And so my philosophy has been that enrollment is everybody's business. Mhmm. It's not just enrollment. It's not just academic affairs. It's not just student affairs. And student success is everybody's business.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:11:34]: We all have to be working together. So I think as being a president now and sitting in a little different perspective, I think I've got a better understanding of truly what student success means and what a true student engagement experience and really creating the environment at the institution to make our students successful. I don't know if I had the same perspective if I had gone to complete academic ground. I just think I have a much more holistic view of sitting in the presidency seat.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:02]: So what does student success mean for you now, and and how is that different than when you were a VPSA?

Dr. Richard Walker [00:12:07]: So for now, it really it is a combination of everybody working together in the academic arena. And so sometimes in higher education, things are organized in different buckets in different ways. So at the University of Houston Clear Lake, I have vice presidents and I have a vice president for student affairs, obviously, that reports to me. I also have a vice president for strategic enrollment management that reports to me. Student success, I have associate vice president for student success that reports through academic affairs. And so our student success structure, we call it student success, is academic advising, student success support services, writing center, testing center, math center, and all those aspects. But it's student affairs that house orientation in your student programs Mhmm. Which is a key component of this global process.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:12:45]: Then you've got enrollment management, which is all the recruitment pieces. So I think what for me, it's about retention and graduation rates. It's about the process of entering the institution and trying to make it a seamless experience. We have thirty nine percent first generation college students on our campus. We have 41% Pell eligible. We're a Hispanic serving, a minority serving institution. Many of our students don't have somebody to go to and turn to. So it's thinking about how do we not create barriers and roadblocks.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:13:15]: To the students, how we're organized, they don't care. And they don't know. They shouldn't have to know. To them, it should be a seamless experience. So for me, it's really about looking at, are we retaining the students? Are we doing the things from a student engagement component outside the classroom? Are we providing those academic support services? Are we drilling down to really see who's having difficulty, why they're having difficulty in making those services available? So it's about graduation rates. It's about retention. At the end of the day, the ultimate sign of success is that those students walk across that commencement stage. And I tell them that at orientation.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:13:50]: I've seen you now as you're coming into the institution. My last the senior will be when you walk across that stage, and I'll give you a call. That to me is what's truly successful, and that's what student success is to me. And it's again, I said earlier, but it's the holistic aspect of everybody working together for the same goal. I actually go speak to every new employee orientation, and there's custodians in there, there's finance people in there, there's deans who are in the same orientations. And I tell them, everybody sitting in this room has a role to play in student success. Mhmm. And whether it's bringing in new students, whether it's keeping students here, keeping them engaged, every interaction you have with a student, a parent, a community member is gonna determine our success.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:14:32]: And that's been my philosophy as president.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:35]: So if I'm a student affairs professional, sometimes the president can feel really far away, especially if I'm in maybe my first couple of years as a new professional, and I think it's really clear when you're on a campus when that that kind of drive and passion for a president, permeates through the experience of an institution. But if if I'm, your average student affairs professional, how do I kind of take that lead from my president and move forward for student success knowing that my day job is probably focused on a very specific function of the university?

Dr. Richard Walker [00:15:06]: So what I tell my team is, I try to be visible first and foremost. I try to be out there. I try to go to events and student events. We try to host events for faculty and staff in terms of their engagement with the institution. I'm a I'm a big enough campus with a small enough campus to be seen. They know who I am. I try to do regular communications about different issues that are happening on the campus so that they can hear from the president. It's not in person.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:15:29]: It leads to regular communications of things that that interest them. But But I really would advise any professional in student affairs, maybe in the university. This morning, I talked about it a little bit in the president's panel. I said it's about building relationships. And I truly believe that my success over my forty plus years career, which has predominantly been in student affairs until the last three and a half years, is because I was able to engage and build relationships across the entire institution, whether it was deans in academic affairs or faculty or whether it was in administration finance, whether it was in advancement in fundraising, whether it was enrollment management, it does not matter. I believe that both from the University of Houston system where I've been for the last in my fourteenth year and twenty four years at the University of Miami, I really truly believe it was about building those relationships. And I tell younger professionals, make sure you're reaching across the institution. Don't silo yourself only with getting to know and understand your job.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:16:27]: Yes. That's your top priority. I want you to be successful in that first. But as you think about the work that you're doing, take opportunities or ask for those opportunities Mhmm. To get involved and engage in other aspects of the institution. That will make you a better student affairs professional. It will make your institution. That will make you a better student affairs professional.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:16:43]: It will make your career trajectory something that you can talk about, how you've been able to interact and interface with multiple areas of the institution. Everybody doesn't get that opportunity. But especially at Cleric, we're a small enough institution, you have that opportunity to do so, and don't lose the advantage of that. Take advantage of that. Ask. Can I do this? Can I do that? Can I be involved in this? You know, sometimes I think my my team can be a little annoyed with me because because I was in enrollment management, the first thing I do every morning is look at the enrollment reports. As a president? As a president. When I turn on my computer, the enrollment reports pop up.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:17:18]: And so I look at those every every morning, and so I dive into the data. And so because I I understand it and know it, I know that can be a little annoying. I try not to annoy them in too much, but I know how to ask the questions. And so I also tell people to learn about how to how to use data to your advantage. I think using data is really important as well. So I would say professionals in student affairs, youngers who go into the career, take advantage of all those kinds of opportunities that might present themselves or ask for them to have those professional development type

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:57]: time. And, you know, we've seen the provost rule really being that kind of pipeline into the presidency, and that's really to shift, I think, in the last five to ten years in particular. We're seeing, you know, just with our panel today, we had Leah Barrett from Northeast Community College. We had doctor Lourdes White from DePauw, who Lourdes has been on the podcast as well. So listeners, if you wanna hear more from Lourdes, I think you have to go back probably two or three seasons to find her episode. Yourself, Richard, and then also, Dwan Womack from, Claflin University. So seeing all of you make that shift from student affairs to president, we also see folks like, doctor John Hoffman, who's at Bemidji State, Mordecai doctor Mordecai Brownlee who's at Community College of Aurora. You all are making the move that I think a lot of us didn't really think of as possible or we thought the VPSA role was the ceiling for a long time.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:42]: How are you seeing that shift happen, and how are you seeing VPSAs who want to move into that presidency be most successful with that journey?

Dr. Richard Walker [00:18:50]: I think the shift is that institutions of higher education and boards of trustees or boards of regents who actually do the recruiting for these presidencies and higher search firms and search firms themselves understand that there is a skill set that's developed in student affairs that's different than academic affairs. And if you're looking now at the challenges that institutions of higher education are facing, the things that are challenges or as above, you look at those opportunities. Those are not the same as they used to be. Yeah. And so some of the training that folks coming from a traditional academic background, from a faculty member to a department chair, to a dean, to a provost, to a president. I don't think some of those skill sets are as developed. That's why now you're also seeing a lot of provost institutes of provosts that wanna be a president, and now they're really training provosts. How do you be a president? And then I say that in in a way that's really about taking the opportunity to think about the skill set and what you bring to the table.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:19:51]: You know, I'll go back to COVID, and this was said this morning, I think, in the, I don't know, presidential panel. Who did most presidents and institutions turn to to get the institution through COVID?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:01]: Student affairs.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:20:01]: Student affairs.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:02]: Yeah.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:20:02]: And that's why I'm talking about that about that skill set because they have student affairs and student affairs vice presidents, and teams in student affairs have the ability and the skill set to look at it broadly, with a different lens and a truly academic lens. Yeah. We had to switch academic programs and everything had to go online. That was the faculty. That was the dean. That was the provost. That was IT. Mhmm.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:20:23]: But constructing how you make all that happen and being at the table to help guide that process and thinking about health and mental health and all these factors that intervene in COVID and even having to go online with therapy and and and having psychologists and psych and psychiatrists available in teletherapy. I remember at, I tried for the longest time to get my director of counseling center to move into teletherapy, and she just resisted and resisted. It was amazing how fast when COVID hit, she converted.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:54]: Instantly. Yeah.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:20:54]: Instantly. Mhmm. And now it's successful. Mhmm. So I think part of it is just this transition of what's the skill set needed. I think leaders at at the at the board level understand a little difference. You're also not you're also seeing people come into presences outside of higher education. Mhmm.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:21:10]: Like, people who've led industry and business. Mhmm. You see that's been developing as well. And so I think some of the search firms and the people who lead these processes are now saying, don't think in the box. Start to look outside the box as well. Mhmm. To find the best fit for your institution.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:29]: So if I'm a coordinator of in student affairs right now and I know that my aspiration is to be a president, what advice would you give that professional who is just starting out but knows they need to build these skills along the way?

Dr. Richard Walker [00:21:42]: I would say just to take advantage of the opportunities as they present themselves, and I'm gonna use myself as a story. So when I started into student affairs, my first full time job was at the, at the time, the Central Missouri State University or the University of Central Missouri. And I took a job as a coordinator of Greek affairs, but it was housed in student housing and residential life Interesting. Because I was gonna have fraternity and sororities, pandemic, advising, all that. But on that campus, all the Greeks are housed in on campus housing. So I also had all their housing responsibilities. So my I said to myself, I'm getting two kinds of different opportunities in one job. I left there, went to the University of Miami's assistant dean of students, and stayed in the dean of student assistant dean associate dean for ten years doing fraternities and sororities, Greek life, and student conduct.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:22:32]: Mhmm. I took the Miami job because I've already been doing Greek life, so that I had to kind of had that down. But it had conduct from a residence hall perspective, but not full judicial conduct for the campus. Campus. So I thought about that. That would help my portfolio. This is ultimately where I wanna go to be a vice president. And then about ten years in, doctor Patricia Whiteley became the vice president for student affairs at the University of Miami.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:22:54]: And doctor Whiteley is the NASCO board chair and was my mentor.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:59]: Yeah. Pillar of the profession.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:23:00]: Yes. Pillar of the profession, my mentor in this whole process. She was the director of student life in the university center. When she was named vice president, she said, I want you to move out of the dean's office and move into my position. Interesting story is I initially told her no because I really wanna be the dean's student, and I thought the dean was gonna retire in two years. So I was gonna hang on two more years in the dean's office, and then you may be the dean of students. I'll be happy. And about a week later, I always said, maybe it would be good for me to go do this.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:23:25]: Even if it's for two years, it's a different experience. It's a skill set I don't have. I was gonna have the student center, run the student center. I was gonna have orientation and student activities and all those kinds of pieces that I had not not done. There's a RAS Keller, which is a campus pub and restaurant on that campus. It's not managed by food service. It was gonna report to me. I was gonna learn how to run a bar and a and a pub, but that was interesting.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:23:49]: But I did I said finally said, you know what? I'm gonna I wanna do this. She said, okay. And it's a good thing I did because the dean didn't retire for seven more years. And I say that because she saw a different skill set in Navy that I wasn't sure, you know, if that's really what I wanted to do. But when I thought about it, I'm like, it's a difference. It's another experience to add to my portfolio. Mhmm. It's something I haven't done.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:24:08]: And so from there, I was promoted to assistant vice president, ultimately associate vice president to keep adding stuff to my portfolio like career services and special projects for the president and all kind of fun stuff. But I say that to say, think about the opportunities you're given. And what I tell people is that sometimes those opportunities present themselves when they're not even looking for them. In that case, I wasn't looking to I wasn't comfortable. I wasn't looking to move. But I'd have turned it down. I wouldn't have advanced and had knowledge in all these other aspects of student affairs that I end up gaining. The same thing with doctor Couture in at If I had said no to her opportunities to take on enrollment and ultimately become a president, I wouldn't have gotten to the presidency.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:24:49]: So I tell people all the time is don't have this road map that's so stringent that you can't adjust if the opportunity presents itself. And I also tell people, people are watching you. They're watching your job performance. Mhmm. Even when you don't know they're watching your job

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:04]: performance. Yeah.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:25:05]: And they so make sure you always put your best foot forward. But as people are observing you and if you're good at what you do, then people take note of that. And those opportunities that will begin to develop because people have been watching your career and saying that person is really good. They're talented. They can do something different. I can help them advance in their career. So that I don't know if that makes any sense, but that's I think that's kinda how, you know, you have to think about it is, think about those opportunities as they present themselves to you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:33]: I try to live by the personal model of life is better when you say yes to things, and it sounds very similar to kind of what you're advising folks to do. But we also have a lot of professionals who are hungry for those experiences and maybe aren't in a position where those opportunities are as easily as available. What advice would you give those professionals on how to find them or how to ask for them?

Dr. Richard Walker [00:25:51]: So typically, I would say start with those conversations with your supervisor. Or if you report to a director and directors report to ADPs or to the VP, have those conversations with your ADP and even with your vice president about those opportunities that interest you. I will tell the story about my current vice president for student affairs, Doctor. Tina Palson. She worked for me at the University of Houston as director of the student center, student center for involvement and leadership. We sat down and had coffee at Starbucks one day to talk about her career and where she really wanted to go. And she was kind of landlocked. And I and what I mean is that her husband is a physician.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:26:28]: His practice is in The Woodlands, which is North North Of Houston. She goes, we're not going anywhere. Mhmm. Like, his successful practice, I'm kinda locked into the greater Houston area. I really wanna become a vice president. And I said, well, that's because that's a challenge because you can't you can't really move. So you're in the greater Houston area. You have to think about that.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:26:48]: So when my vice president left and I had to hire an interim, I remember that conversation that we had at Starbucks about her desire to advance in her career. So I took her to lunch, and I said, how do you feel about coming to Clear Life and being being interim vice president for student affairs? And she thought to me, really? I said, yes. Really? I'm I'm giving you an opportunity. Now I'm gonna do a search. If you like it, you've qualified. You meet the qualification. You can apply, and we'll we'll see where it goes. But it's an opportunity, and I said I went back to that Starbucks conversation.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:27:20]: It said it came to mind as I was thinking about this. So who do I know that I trust to come in here right away within the next few weeks and step in and do a great job for me? At the end of the day, I did a national search. I had three finalists, and she was the top candidate. Mhmm. And she got the position. And so I think part of it was just being willing to have conversations with people, you know, to say this is kind of what I'm thinking. This is what I wanna do. And, you know, even though sometimes that intentionally make those up, go have coffee.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:27:46]: Go do I think most anybody, whether it's a director or a vice president or associate vice president, they'll have those conversations. They're very willing to have those conversations. I think in our profession, people like people coming to them, kind of the mentor thing, and for advice and give me guidance. And they kept me think through how do I get to where I ultimately wanna go, and what's that career ambition.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:07]: Both you and your, your vice president took the risk of becoming an interim leader before taking the full time position. That's a really scary move.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:28:16]: It is.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:17]: Especially knowing that if you're vacating something, you may not be able to go back to that thing.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:28:21]: Point of advice, always guarantee you can go back because I made sure that when I agreed to go to Clear Lake, I had it in writing from the chancellor that at the end of the interim term, I was going back to my existing position. I said to doctor Palson, I'm gonna give you the offer to come as interim. You go to your the vice president. The time it's gonna be the interim vice president, and you get it in writing that your position is guaranteed to go back.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:45]: That is a very, very important move. We don't always see that because sometimes the interim position's at a different university system Right. Or maybe even in a different Right. Different state or something like that. So that security feels really good Yes. Comparative to, you know, maybe you don't have something to go back to. Right. But but even if you go back to that position, you're not the same professionals when you left it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:05]: So had you decided to go back to that VPSA role, how do you think you would have been different as a professional?

Dr. Richard Walker [00:29:12]: That's a a really good question. I think I would have had different insights. I did at the in that role as VP for ten years. So I was kind of at that tipping point of what's next. I I kind of tackled the initial goals that the president and chancellor had given me when I stepped into the role. She was very specific. Two specific goals I need you to accomplish initially. That's why I think then the enrollment came later because she's like, okay.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:29:36]: You did those pretty quickly. Now now I need you to do this. But I think the challenge for me would have been, okay. What's next? Like, what's the next big thing for student affairs going back into my role at the University of Houston? Mhmm. I think that and that's a question that she was starting to ask herself and asking interims and and etcetera. And me, I think, would ask me the same question. What is next? What's the next big thing in student affairs? What are we not doing at the University of Houston that the best in affairs divisions across the country are doing? So I think I would've been challenged to think differently, and that was a little bit scary because I felt the division was in really good shape, and it was very steady. But I had a chance for a president who pushed the envelope, and she was never satisfied.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:30:19]: She called her big rocks. What's the next big thing? What's the next big rock? I mean, the University of Houston, as president, when she came in, the first big thing was to become a research one institution. She did that a year ahead of schedule, became an art. And then, you know, what's the next big thing? And then we were sitting in cabinets and retreats talking about the next big thing. We all decided, what about we just have some medical school? Not an easy task. We all agreed. We were gonna give it a shot. University of Houston now has a medical school.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:30:46]: Next big goal was I wanna be in a power five athletic, also not easily attainable. University of Houston is now in the big 12. Now her new big rock is getting to AAU, has become an AAU institution. So I say all that to say I was gonna be challenged Yeah.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:02]: Because

Dr. Richard Walker [00:31:02]: I was gonna have to think differently and figure out what what was gonna be next. But I think the presidency would have given me a different ability to look at things a little bit differently in that way as not having run the entire institution.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:16]: What surprised you most coming into the presidency?

Dr. Richard Walker [00:31:19]: I'll be honest for me, shifting size of institutions and shifting budget. I was on the flagship campus, 47,000 students. My divisional budget was double my entire institution budget in front of me. That's a challenge.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:32]: That's definitely a different scale.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:31:33]: That's a completely different scale. So that was probably my biggest adjustment. The other piece I would say, given a thought about earlier where we are in the Bay Area, it is very, very, very community oriented. We have more little mayors of townships and chambers of commerce. I got the more chamber events than I ever fall about being in the city at the at the University of Houston. But that's important. That community engagement and the visibility of the presidency is highly well respected in those arenas, and people wanna see that president. So I now sit on two boards, community boards.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:32:08]: I'm on the Bay Area Houston Economic Partnership board of directors, and I'm on the Clear Lake Regional Chamber of Commerce. I'm not sure. Like, the HCA, Clear Lake Hospital Mhmm. Board of trustees. And I'm on also an unofficial ex officio member of the Clear Lake chamber board. But those kinds of things are important that I didn't see see at the university Mhmm. If that makes sense. Like, doctor Couture was the president was not she'd go to these events, but she wasn't that engaged.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:32:35]: And here is a community expectation. Majority of our alums stay in the Clear Lake area. We've got 80,000 plus alumni now, but most of them work in the greater Houston area, and many of them right there in the greater Clear Lake area. So that connectivity, is really, really important. I

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:51]: wanna talk a little bit of the hard stuff because you're in Texas

Dr. Richard Walker [00:32:54]: Yep.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:55]: And Texas state Legislature has made a lot of choices lately around trans identity, around DEI in general, around some other things that are kind of challenging for universities who are trying to meet the needs to be inclusive for students who come with all sorts of identities. So how are you navigating this with your teams and with the students who still need the support, but maybe you're a bit hampered by what you can actually do according to the law?

Dr. Richard Walker [00:33:20]: So the so Texas legislature only meets every other year. Mhmm. So maybe they meet in the odd years. So

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:26]: And only for about sixty days.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:33:28]: Yes. From January till the May first of June. So the last legislative session in '23, '2 big bills, but I'll talk about the DEI bill. It's called senate bill 17, which called for the elimination of DEI at public institutions of higher education in the state of Texas. All aspects, training, programming, positions. So as we work through that bill process, and this is something about just the politics and it's probably similar in most states within Texas. Bills always start on the drastic end. Mhmm.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:34:09]: And so we had to tell everybody, don't freak out when the first version of the bill comes up. We're gonna work through it. At some point, we'll get it hopefully better than where where it started. It may not be perfect. So we advocated and worked through the process and worked with legislators on both sides of the aisle to kinda find a happy medium of where the majority wanted to go, but the things that we needed to do to continue to support our students. So there were a few carve outs in that process. So there were a few carve outs in that process in the final bill that got passed. We still were gonna have to eliminate all DEI and the training and those kinds of things, but there were carve outs for academic programs around diversity, equity, inclusion, for faculty research, For student organizations, this was not gonna apply to them.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:34:56]: They wanted to make sure that programs and services were being provided to all students. Then they did some carve out around first generation, low economic, economically disadvantaged. Those are all words that are in the bill. So at the University of Sinclair, like, I had a chief diversity and inclusion officer that reported directly to me. Interestingly enough, I was the only institution of four in the University of Houston system that had a chief diversity and inclusion officer. So I had to ultimately eliminate that position. We had a student center for diversity, equity, and inclusion, which we had to eliminate. And what we did is we redesigned the support services to create the center for student advocacy and Community.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:35:36]: Mhmm. And then we wrote job descriptions. We already had basic needs in terms of food pantry, emergency grants, and all those kind of things. And and student advocacy was actually already housed in the Dean of Students Office. We pulled it out of the Dean of Students Office, put it in this department, and then focus the community piece on the belonging stuff and working with students, student organizations to provide this belonging activities. Everything, any advertisements even for the student organizations had to say all students are invited. You had to make it clear that everything is for everybody. And so that's how we kind of worked through the process.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:36:09]: We did that. University of Houston did something similar that they copied. I was proud. We actually were ahead of them. They said, can we have all your job descriptions? Can we see what you're doing? Now part of this process and in this bill required each board of regents in their seven systems of higher education in Texas. Each board at the end of this last year had to certify that that all of its institutions in their system complied with s p 17. So they all we all had to submit reports. Each board submitted a report.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:36:37]: It's interesting. About two weeks ago, a letter came out from the Senate Higher Education Committee and one of the other senators saying, well, every border we just complied and submitted their reports, they did not find them to be satisfied. We also had they dealt with the situation in in the state with UT Austin back in the summer where they kinda went after UT Austin first, and that's very politics. Flagship between UT and A and M. They're the two that, you know, are the most well done. The Diddy field that they had all that they had done is reorganize and rename things and really didn't eliminate it. So last summer, they literally had to completely redo. They created a division of, I think, community engagement, and they literally had to close it down and eliminate 60 something exact positions.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:37:19]: So we're going through a similar process right now. I don't think we're on the list, but did everybody go far enough in what their intent was? So we'll see what comes out of this legislative session. We may have additional bills. But what we've tried to say is we're going to support all of our students. And so some of the services, like, in our campus, LGBT services were were part of the Center for Diversity and Inclusion. At the University Maybe it was a completely separate department, but they had to close that. So still trying to provide those services, but trying to operate, we eliminate all of our training. We eliminate all of our programming.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:37:50]: We said we're gonna start all over. We don't want any perception that we're still trying to hang on to this or hang on to that because that's not gonna get us anywhere. So we really have really kinda started from scratch and tried to redesign everything. And if you go to our website, it's we're very careful about what we do, what we say we do, the things that we're providing to our students. So it's still supporting our students and all of our students, but shifting the contacts. You just don't use d, e, or I in your language, in your description, and it's totally interesting to see. But so far, so taxes with like Florida and some others were kind of the first ones to get down that path, and now you see what's kinda happening in other states and happening at the federal level. So you can do it.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:38:30]: You can still provide the support. I think the importance is to make sure you're always just gonna you're gonna support the students and figure out a way to do that without tripping over yourself or using the inappropriate language that they feel is inappropriate. Not everybody feels is inappropriate. And so you have to work within the box you're given, but still have got to make sure your students are supported.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:49]: How have the students been responding to these changes?

Dr. Richard Walker [00:38:52]: Our students have responded pretty well to that. I think they understood it, and they've worked well with us to kinda make sure that we are providing the support that they need. And so far, it's been so good. So we'll see where all this goes because it's we're in a legislative session now, and so they're not finished with DEI. I think there'll be something more coming out. I think the the fear now is that they could try to tackle academic programs and academic research, but we're not there again.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:20]: We're also in a position where it's, you know, it's March what's today? The sixteenth Mhmm. 2025, and we are about a week past the Office of Civil Rights being effectively eliminated. So I'm sure we're still awaiting what will happen at the federal level for how this is gonna affect education looks like.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:39:35]: Yes. The whole thing around Title nine and how that's been implemented, it's it's changed so many times. It's been that's been frustrating because it's changed with each administration. Yes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:44]: The 02/2004.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:39:46]: I feel like we have constantly been rewriting our sexual harassment and our sexual misconduct policies, and they're lengthy. We have a system policy, and it's a lengthy process. And just when you think you've got it figured out

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:57]: It changes.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:39:58]: It changes. So we'll see where where all of this goes now in the in the new standpoint student financial aid Yeah. Pell Grants and those kind of things. I mean, 41% of our students are on Pell Grants. I mean, that's not something that functionally, I don't believe, you could just put back to The States. That's a massive undertaking with the student financial aid and the loan process and all of that. I'm really worried about how that impacts students and the the affordability because many of our students, if that if that goes under and we can't get that to the point where it's functional and and serving the students that we need to serve, that's what worries me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:38]: You talked about this morning that affordability is the number one concern for you and your students at your university. I think that's probably shared by most college presidents. Is there anything specific or unique that your institution is doing to support that affordability mission?

Dr. Richard Walker [00:40:51]: Well, I think even the state of Texas, I think our our governors even concerned about access and affordability. That's why the two years coming out of COVID, we did not raise local tuition, and that was our decision because we just didn't think that was the right thing to do coming out of COVID. Then the last two years, the governor said he wouldn't approve a local tuition increase, and now he said the same thing for the next. So we will go six years without increasing that local tuition stream. So we're really trying to take a look at our awarding philosophy. I challenged my new vice president for strategic role management to take a step back and see, are we utilizing all of the aid that we have available? Available? Because we get Texas grants and other grants from the state, and then we have to set aside a certain amount of our local tuition dollars. 15 percent has to go to students in need with Texas residency. So there are some built in aid programs.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:41:41]: We've asked for an increase in Texas grant for the legislature for this next cycle, again, to try to address the affordability piece. We have transfer money for transfer students that's not meeting the the gap that needs to meet for students who are transferring in, so that's kind of a different population. As part of my investiture to become president, we created the presidential excellence scholarship. So we've been raising money for that program, raising trying to get more endowed scholarships, getting people to invest in students and presenting and doing scholarships on that aspect of so we're trying to do but I just I wanna make sure I think we can do a better job at our awarding philosophy and make sure we're max optimizing the funds that we have available to award, and are we award and are we awarding that strategically? Mhmm. And really taking a look and that can change annually. I mean, if you do your if you do your homework and really dive into how you're awarding, there are shifts that happen almost on an annual basis. So for example, if you're awarding a scholarship at the University of Houston, we had something about academic excellence, and there were three tiers. Might be a 5,000, a 3,000, and then 1,000.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:42:45]: Academically, you performed perform to certain levels. You were guaranteed those tiers. We would do an analysis every year. But what if we lowered this one by 500? We put 500 more on this one, and there's you can run the data to show you, yes. That would make an impact here. We're not making an impact here. So if you use analytics to truly help you do your awarding philosophies and making sure you're really meeting the needs of the students, because many students today, especially being a HSIMS, they don't want debt. And so you also are are braided as an institution on how much debt do your students graduate having.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:43:19]: Mhmm. And they don't wanna see high levels of debt. I mean, that's a bragging point. If you can get your amount of debt your students leave the institution with low adopt, it's something to talk about about when you're talking about affordability in higher education. It's a selling point. And it's

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:34]: something that students will talk to each other about. The theme of our season is the past, present, and future of student affairs. So I'm gonna dig into our theme questions. So looking at the past, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively let go of?

Dr. Richard Walker [00:43:50]: That's a fascinating question. I'm gonna have to think back after forty something

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:53]: years. You've seen some changes in

Dr. Richard Walker [00:43:55]: the past.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:55]: I have

Dr. Richard Walker [00:43:56]: seen a lot of changes, so I'm trying to figure out historically from the profession. You know, when I first got into the fashion profession, I'll be honest, student success wasn't a buzzword. He really wasn't well defined. That's not what we really at least in my career, we had talked about that. We talked about recruitment and engagement, but we didn't frame it in the context of retention and success, like, measuring that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:21]: Yeah.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:44:22]: That wasn't early on in my career, but I think that's something now that forever will be ingrained in who we are. It's part of the what we have to do to convince the public as well. Higher education is well worth the investment dollars Mhmm. And to talk about how much does it cost, how quickly can you get your degree. Because the sooner you can get into job market, the sooner you will make a good living for yourself and your family. And so really thinking about don't take six years. You know, we talk about six year graduation rates. We really started to try to shift or what does top don't talk about six.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:44:56]: Yes. Nationally, that's the methodology. We need to be talking about four year graduation rates. That's where we need to focus. Six is long in my opinion. When I was going to school and my parents put me through, they're like, you have four years. I had to figure it out. I had to go to summer school, but I've got finished in four years.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:45:13]: So now it's more about trying to say to students, you have to take 30 credits over the course of a year, not fifteen and fifteen because everybody used to think about spring and didn't really talk about summer. Now it's really trying to say to them, then you have to do it all. You can do it fall, spring, and summer. You can do twelve and twelve and six over the summer. So I think part of the shift for me is about also talking about student success in the context of time to completion. Also, we've started talking about much more than we did early on about wasted credit hours, making sure we're creating pathways for students, especially transfer students, going to a community college who have a desire to transfer into a four year institution, to focus on only take the classes you need. If you know the community college, when you get your associate's degree, you wanna transfer to the University of Houston Clear Lake in engineering, we've got a path. And working with community colleges in those paths, yeah, we've had MOUs and transfer agreements and those kind of things.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:46:09]: We gotta look at it even a little bit more differently. And, really, what we started to assume, what why I've seen it change as president, we have something called the Houston DPS, Houston pathways dotted pathways, which all the four year institutions and the community colleges in the greater Houston areas are working together to make these seamless pathways. We have faculty at the community college and at the universities in Clear Lake get together, especially with San Jacinto, who's our largest speaker transfer, and talk about curriculum challenges. Okay. This math at at San Jacinto is not exactly this math at Clear Lake and the two faculties had about to get together. So I think that's been a shift also that you didn't hear as much about. We had articulation agreements, but, sometimes they paid attention to them and they necessarily didn't. So I think that's been a change.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:46:53]: Also, in student affairs, development and fundraising. Early on was not something that was invested in and looked at as the institution as a funding source to raise philanthropic dollars. Mhmm. I think what we had to start saying to folks is they're outside of the classroom engagement experiences. For some students, that was their connectivity. In fundraising and development, there's always that, oh, what college were you in? When college did you graduate for? And everybody was putting a college bucket, and that's how the fundraising was developed. And some of us in student affairs had to start going to our advancement officers, and I did that at the University of Houston. I said, you're missing an opportunity.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:47:25]: You're leaving money on the table. Some of these students are not gonna give to you from the College of Engineering. They just don't want to. But all these student leaders that were RAs and key student leaders on the campus, they did not get to opportunities within student affairs, more private philanthropy. That's been a big shift in my opinion from the start to kind of where we are today.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:44]: I've seen a big shift in that specifically related to fundraising for fundamental needs works, and people being willing to put their donation dollars towards knowing that this is going to go to food pantries or, going to provide emergency grants to students, that type of thing. And we weren't fundraising for that ten years ago either.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:47:59]: We weren't. I was actually in gags with Amelia, actually, around the whole looking at emergency financial aid, emergency grants, emergency loan programs. When NASPA first kinda got into that space and started taking a look at, with some help, NASPA got some grants on. I was on several of those work group task force that Amelia was heading up as we start to think about what does this now begin? Should it begin to look like? And I think in both the University of Houston Clear Lake and then my work at University of Houston, basic needs, food pantries, emergency grants, all those kinds of things are much more well established. And to your point, I think, yes, people are much more willing because they see that as something tangible. It's an immediate need students have. So we started seeing a lot more gifts of of people willing to invest in the basic needs programs.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:46]: Looking at the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs?

Dr. Richard Walker [00:48:50]: I think the continued focus on student life, student engagement, student involvement on the campus. I think that's going well. I think career development, career opportunities, career engagement, intern we call it internships, spiritual learning opportunities, anything that that's in that nature. I think there's been a shift in the turn in mental mental health. I think institutions now are putting the money that they need to put into mental health. I think we saw that coming out of COVID. There was a real real section. And as talked about earlier, teletherapy, and investing in these those different kind of opportunities to create teletherapy so students can get contact anytime they want it, anytime they need it, 03:00 in the morning.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:49:33]: Mhmm. I think those kinds of things are going well. I think there's a understanding and a need that you gotta invest. That's a key component of the student success because if they're not physically well and mentally well, they're gonna drop out or stop out, and you won't you don't want those to be reasons that they're not completing and continuing their education. I think those things are going well in student affairs.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:55]: Mental health emergencies almost never happen during business hours. Correct. So it makes sense that we've shifted to a more after hours type of model. And, you know, we still want students to be able to see our counselors during business hours for their regular sessions. It's difficult to say, I'm so sorry. We can't answer your call even though you're in absolute distress because it's 9PM.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:50:14]: Correct. I absolutely agree. In fact, we pulled some data recently. We're looking at our our data in our counseling and mental health center. And I think last year, we had 420 some or 60 something unique users coming into the counseling center. We had over 1,200 using our teletherapy.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:31]: I think that also speaks to some of the needs of Gen z, right, and their comfort with, technology and FaceTiming their families. It makes sense to feel comfort in FaceTiming a therapist as well. Yeah. Maybe And you

Dr. Richard Walker [00:50:41]: can even FaceTime a therapist that's sitting in the counseling center in their office now too, which that didn't used to happen.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:46]: Yeah. I have a a family member who's a professional therapist and she says she has some tension around around that because you wanna meet the the person where they're at, but also sometimes if you're struggling, for example, with depression, actually getting out of your space and and into a different space can be really helpful too. So, yeah, it's it's an interesting balance that I know the mental health field is working through.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:51:05]: Absolutely.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:06]: And then our last question is, future related. In an ideal world, what does the field need to do to thrive towards our future?

Dr. Richard Walker [00:51:12]: I think a lot of it is to keep doing what we do and do what, you know. Amelia in the the kinda opening session talked about the work that we do is not gonna go over that even in this changing, challenging environment.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:24]: Mhmm.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:51:25]: Students need us. Mhmm. Our students need to continue to provide that support. NASPA needs to continue to provide that professional development support. It's just that things may look a little different, and it's a professional association. We're going to be here for the people in the field of student affairs. As challenging as that may be, the landscape may look different, but we will work through it. Mhmm.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:51:45]: I think I said it in the panel today. You know, resiliency is something that we do well at student affairs. As challenging as it can be. The passion for the work. I would not have done this forty something years if I didn't have passion for this work. In all the the changing environments we've talked about the diapers, things have gone over forty years and things have changed over forty years, I love getting up every morning and going to work. And it's because I think I come from that student affairs background. I come from that aspect of really caring and feeling like I really can make a difference and the teams can make a difference and student affairs professionals can make a difference.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:52:19]: As challenging as it's going to be, as I like to always say. I'm an optimist. I believe the glass is half full. It is not half empty. I believe this is a marathon. It is not a sprint. And so don't panic. Roll with it.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:52:33]: We'll work through it together. I'm hopeful and convinced that hopefully, sharp minds and smart people will prevail in the long run. But there's a need there's a need for this field, and what I don't want to happen is younger professionals get so frustrated. They aren't going with the way they think they needed it to go. You know, I'm just being honest. I'm gonna tell my I'm a baby boomer. So So I'll be I'm always honest about this. I sometimes had challenges with the different generations of people that's, you know, gone from m z's.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:53:02]: I don't I lose track of it all, but I get it. Millennials, the whole nine yards. But I think I would just always say that to folks, you know, as the future, higher education is going to be around. The need for connectivity to students and supporting our students, that is not gonna go by. Back. Whether that's higher education or k k through 12, the same, you know, some of the same things are happening in k through 12. But again, I think the future this we're gonna be around. We're not going anywhere.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:53:27]: Now the challenging things you're seeing around enrolling with smaller, little arts colleges and some smaller institutions, and you already seen some of that closing. And that's probably gonna continue to happen in some capacity, although I think some of that slowed down a little bit. Now that COVID has run its course, people are rebounding and regrouping, and we saw the climb. But, again, I think we will rebound in our enrollment as well. But I believe that we will continue to be needed. Our education is going to be here. It's just how will it look?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:53]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:53:59]: Thanks so much, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. On April 29 at twelve eastern, there will be a new policy insights for higher education in the first hundred days member briefing. Join higher education public policy leaders for a discussion for a discussion centered on federal policy updates, implications for student affairs professionals, and reflections on how to move forward in the current policy environment. Panelists will share perspectives on how student affairs professionals can stay up to date on federal and state policy changes and discuss ways they can advocate for both their institution and the field more broadly. This is a free webinar for you as a member. Encourage you to sign up today. You can go to learning.naspa.org to sign up today.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:54:57]: The Student Success and Higher Education Conference is happening June in Denver, Colorado. As we get closer to the start of this amazing conference, there is some new news to share regarding some of the powerful content that is going to be there as well as thought leadership at the core of the event. Just recently, the keynotes were announced. The opening keynote will be doctor Tia McNair, partner at Sova, who's well known for driving transformational change through actionable strategies and practical implementation support. And the closing keynote will feature a senior leader panel comprised of three leading professionals and voices in the field, including doctor Mordecai Ian Brownlee, president of the Community College of Aurora, doctor Delmi Landoff, vice president for student affairs at Pratt Institute, and doctor Joe Thomas, senior associate vice chancellor for student affairs at CU Boulder. There's still time for you to be able to sign up for this amazing conference. We are now in the regular registration deadline, but you can still be a part of this amazing conference by going to the NASPA website and signing up today. Two, journal of college and character that was recently published.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:56:09]: And in this journal, we have a ton of amazing articles that have been that have been that have been peer reviewed and focus on character development and how colleges and universities influence both intentionally and unintentionally the moral and civic learning and behavior of their students. As a member of NASPA, you have access to this journal by going into NASPA.org. You can go into the Journal of College and Character as one of the journals that are available to you as a member. And inside this issue, there are some amazing articles, all of which are focusing around ethical higher education in the anti DEI legislative climate. As you can probably guess, these articles are ones that are hitting all of our campuses, and I highly encourage you to review all of them and check them out and read through them to help your own campus to be stronger in the advocacy that you are offering your students. Finally, today, there is a spring twenty twenty five certification exam prep course that will be kicking off very soon. You can prepare to become a certified student affairs educator with the NASPA certification exam prep course. This five week exam prep course for the certified student affairs educator core exam includes four live moderated study sessions, plus a library of on demand and self paced exam prep resources.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:57:37]: Through this enhanced exam prep, you'll have the opportunity to connect with other prospective certificates, learn from colleagues who have taken and passed the exam, and brush up on your student affairs knowledge and skills through a series of self paced study modules. The prep course is available at a member rate of only $75 for members, which is definitely a no. The certification exam prep course is available at a member rate of only $75 Find out more about this amazing resource at learning.NASPA.org. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:59:07]: Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association, and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:59:35]: Chris, thank you so much for keeping us informed on what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Richard, we have reached our lightning round. So I have seven questions for you to answer in about ninety seconds.

Dr. Richard Walker [00:59:45]: Okay.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:59:45]: Alright. Question one. If you were a conference keynote speaker, which I know you were today, but what would your entrance music be if you got to choose it?

Dr. Richard Walker [00:59:53]: Oh, that's challenging. Celebrating.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:59:55]: Number two. When you were five years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Dr. Richard Walker [00:59:58]: A teacher.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:59:59]: Number three. Who is your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Richard Walker [01:00:02]: Doctor Patricia Whiteley.

Dr. Jill Creighton [01:00:03]: Number four, your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Richard Walker [01:00:05]: That's a difficult one for me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [01:00:07]: Number five, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Dr. Richard Walker [01:00:10]: Matlock, the new person.

Dr. Jill Creighton [01:00:12]: Number six, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Richard Walker [01:00:15]: I don't really listen to the podcast. Well, now it is gonna be the Student Affairs podcast.

Dr. Jill Creighton [01:00:20]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional?

Dr. Richard Walker [01:00:24]: To everybody who's influenced me in my career, mentioned doctor Peashua as a mentor, my chancellor, Lenore Couture. The team that I surround myself with each and every day can't do this work by yourself. And I've had lots over my career, lots of supportive staff, lots of supportive team members, so I give a shout out to everybody.

Dr. Jill Creighton [01:00:40]: It's been a pleasure to speak with you, and I really appreciate you taking time out of your conference schedule to come chat with us. Anyone who's listening would like to connect with you after this airs, how can they find you?

Dr. Richard Walker [01:00:49]: They can find me on LinkedIn, or they can email me at president@uhcl.edud.

Dr. Jill Creighton [01:00:53]: Thank you so much for sharing your voice with us, Richard.

Dr. Richard Walker [01:00:56]: My pleasure.

Dr. Jill Creighton [01:01:02]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners, and we continue to be grateful that you spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show, and please leave us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really helps other student affairs professionals find our show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis.

Dr. Jill Creighton [01:01:44]: Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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In the latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, host Dr. Jill Creighton sits down with Dr. Cynthia Hernandez, Vice President for Student Success at Texas State University, to delve into her extensive experience in student affairs and her vision for the future of the field. This episode is a must-listen for anyone involved in higher education, offering insights into leadership, professional development, and the evolving role of student affairs in fostering student success.

Dr. Hernandez's journey into student affairs is a story of passion and dedication. With over 25 years of progressive leadership, her rise through the ranks is anything but ordinary. From an early involvement as a student leader to her current role guiding a division of over 400 staff, Cynthia's trajectory offers invaluable lessons for professionals at all stages of their careers. Although she initially embarked on a STEM path, earning a Bachelor's in Animal Science, she discovered her true calling in higher education, catalyzed by the guidance of mentors who recognized her leadership potential.

Throughout the episode, Dr. Hernandez emphasizes the importance of a holistic approach to student success. Drawing on her STEM background, she uniquely applies analytical skills to organizational leadership, demonstrating how diverse experiences can enhance student affairs work. Her perspective is particularly valuable for listeners interested in the interplay between data-driven decision-making and the empathetic, student-centered focus of student affairs.

Key themes in this episode include strategies for professional development and career advancement in student affairs. Dr. Hernandez shares candid insights into "managing up" and the importance of building institutional commitment. Whether you're a new professional or a seasoned expert, her advice on leveraging opportunities and committing to lifelong learning is sure to resonate and inspire action.

Furthermore, the conversation delves into the challenges and opportunities presented by current legislative changes affecting higher education. Dr. Hernandez advocates for a proactive stance, emphasizing the importance of maintaining a focus on student success, despite external pressures. Her ability to navigate these dynamics while supporting her team and institution serves as a powerful example of adaptive leadership in unpredictable times.

For those eager to delve deeper into the evolving landscape of student affairs and uncover strategies to enhance student success, this episode is a must-listen. Tune in to gain a wealth of insights from Dr. Cynthia Hernandez and be inspired by her commitment to fostering inclusive, effective educational environments. Whether you're on a campus or beyond, her story is a testament to the profound impact student affairs professionals can have on the lives of students and the wider academic community.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is season 12, continuing our journey through the past, present, and future of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton, sheherhers, your essay voices from the field host. Welcome back to another episode of essay voices from the field. Today, we are bringing you the second live recorded conversation from the NASPA annual conference where we sat down with NASPA pillar of the profession, Dr. Cynthia l Hernandez. Dr. Hernandez currently serves as the vice president for student success at Texas State University, providing leadership for a comprehensive division comprised of over 400 staff housed in 12 departments, including housing and res life, dean of students, counseling services, health services, campus rec, Disability Services, Career Services, LBJ Student Center, Student Involvement, Student Learning Assistance Center, Academic Success Initiatives, and Assessment Planning and Technology Services. With over twenty five years of progressive leadership experience, Dr. Hernandez focuses on enhancing student success and learning in the co curricular through inclusive student centered programs, services, and initiatives, and communicating the impact and value of student success work.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:14]: She is a scholar practitioner and an active member of professional organizations, including NASPA, where she serves on the board of directors. Prior to joining Texas State University, doctor Hernandez served for fifteen years in the office of the vice president for student affairs at Texas A and M University as an assistant and associate VP and as an adjunct professor in the department of educational admin and human resource development. She earned her bachelor's degree in animal science and a master's degree in educational administration with an emphasis in student affairs admin and a doctorate in ed admin from Texas A and M University. Doctor Hernandez began her student success career in student orientation, transition, and retention and programming both at Northern Arizona University and Texas A and M. In addition to being an active professional member of NASPA, she's also active in NODA, which is the Association for Orientation Transition and Retention in Higher Ed, where she held the position of president. She's also served as the chair for NASPA's AVP initiatives steering committee and as a faculty member and director for the NASPA AVP Institute. Her areas of professional interest include the organization leadership and management of operating a division of student affairs, academic partnerships and collaborations, student learning in the co curricular, comprehensive program reviews, strategic planning, threat assessment, Latinas in higher education, and higher education policy. She also provides her personal statement.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:28]: I believe in selfless service, the duty to do good, and the responsibility that comes with influence honoring the impact we have on others and the world. I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as we loved having it. And like our other live episodes, this one might have slightly different audio quality, but the conversation is rich. Cynthia, welcome to SA Voices.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:02:45]: Thank you. Excited to be here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:47]: So you are our second conversation here live at the annual conference. We're so excited to feature you, as well as an award winner this year. Yeah.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:02:55]: Thank you very much. Excited to be here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:56]: Congratulations. Thank you. But Cynthia, you have been part of the student affairs profession for about twenty five years at this point. Spent most of your career in Texas And we always love to start our episodes by asking our guests, how did you get to your current seat?

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:03:10]: Well, thank you very much. You know, it's it's interesting and I think like many of us in the profession, we don't set out to being in the profession. I started my undergraduate degree at Texas A and M University, and one of the wonderful things about that institution is it allows you to really flourish as a student leader. There's so many student run programs, and I got involved. I got involved when I was a student even as a freshman starting out. And I remember, though, the person that really led me into the profession before she probably even knew it was my own RA. I had a scholarship going out to A and M. That's the way I was able to go.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:03:49]: And we had to live in a residence hall, and I lived there. And halfway through my freshman semester, my RA tapped me on the shoulder and said, you do really good at trying to create community with people on the floor, and I think you'd be a great RA. And I was like, I didn't even know really what an RA did, but I did. I I ended up applying and getting it. And so that was really my first foray in. And then the next piece of that was, at that time, you had to take an RA class before you could get hired, and you had to make a certain grade in the class before you could get hired. So my RA class was taught by the director of residence life. His name is Ron Sasse, and he took a liking to me.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:04:35]: We I enjoyed being in his class, and he stayed with me throughout, my RA career as well as my orientation leader career. And when it was time for me to figure out what I wanted to do so I came in to A and M as an aerospace engineering major. I grew up in Houston and really wanted to work on the shuttle. And then ended up an animal science major because I thought I wanted to be a vet. And then I decided I didn't wanna do either of those things. And he walked into my little cubicle as an undergraduate, for my student org, and he gave me a photograph copy. And his name was actually written in Sharpie on the on the front of it, a photograph copy of the student personnel point of view. Oh, okay.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:05:23]: And he said, I think you should read this and tell him, let's talk about it. And we did and it unlocked this love and passion for not only higher education, but for the field of student affairs. And it was then that I decided to to go into graduate school and and go into this path.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:40]: But you finished your bachelor's degree in animal science.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:05:43]: I did. I do. I have a bachelor's of science in animal science. And I think about this all the time. Growing up for me, I was always strong in math and science. And so, naturally, that's what everybody focused on. I got sent to a lot of STEM things when I was in high school. I thought, well, that's what I need to lean into because that's what I'm good at.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:06:05]: And it wasn't until I got to college and really finding the work that I'm doing now that I realized just because you're good at something doesn't mean you have to do that thing. Now I will tell you that my math and science, and we can explore this later on in the in the podcast if you want, but gives me a strength. I think that might be a little different in the work that I do and how I approach my work, but I realized that I really needed to find that passion and purpose and I did that in the profession.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:33]: I am curious how that STEM strength shows up as a VPSA.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:06:38]: It does quite a bit and and one of the things that I think about and I always have to

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:43]: give this caveat and I I found this out when

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:06:46]: I because I'm a first time VPSA and I found this out with my own staff. I always have to first say, we always have to center the student in our work, we always have to lead from a culture of care. But when you're in these roles, I would say assistant director and above, you really have to pay attention to the business and organizational aspect of what we're doing. And so that math and science background for me allows me to really think a little bit more critically and analytically, about the work and how we organize our work, how we organize our resources, both financial and human. Mhmm. And then even in this assessment conversation, this data conversation, this evidence based conversation, being able to look at data and understand data and translate data for those who are maybe not data experts, and that's okay, but how to make meaning of that. And I think that that math and science background has prepared me for that. The other thing I will say prepared me for is when I was at at A and M, I worked in the vice president's office for fifteen years at A and M.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:07:54]: And I had, one of my vice presidents, I had five while I was there. One of my vice presidents was a three star Marine Corps General. And what I learned in my undergrad that helped me with that was how to write things in bullet points. So I didn't write more than a five page paper until I got to my grad program, so because everything in my science background was really about brief bullet points. What data points are you paying attention to right now? Oh goodness. There's a lot. I mean, obviously, on the student success end of it, we are looking at all of our college completion matrix around persistence and retention and graduation, and then distilling that down into what are those things that are preventing this.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:40]: Mhmm.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:08:41]: And then, you know, how can we circle around those support services to meet those? So that's really on the on the student success end, and I can go a little bit deeper into that. The other pieces on, again, and Betty, who is here, talked about it, our investment in staff and development in staff and the metrics associated with, helping our staff thrive, whether that, be performance metrics and even just meeting expectations, but then also what are those things that are barriers to their work and how can we help them be successful in what they do?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:17]: You've come up in student affairs mostly through orientation Mhmm. Past president of NODA Mhmm. As well. So different association work. But I'm wondering how your vision and view of professional development of staff has shifted from your days focused on new student orientation now through overseeing an entire division of student affairs.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:09:35]: Gosh, it has been. It has been an evolution and from being a staff member focused on students, focused on it, on the orientation of students. But I will say, I think there's similar things to learn. There's they're very parallel in that, you know, we invest a lot in the onboarding of students. Starting from the very beginning when we make that contact all the way through maybe that first year, that second year, and and on, that's the same with staff. Right? As soon as we hire that staff member, how are we communicate? And I actually think it goes beyond it be before that and my enrollment management colleagues will agree with this with students, but even when that staff member is applying to be on your staff, that employees that individuals who are applying to be on your staff. How are you treating them along the search process? How are communicating with with them? How are you valuing their time in that process as well? How are you honoring that? And then how do we onboard? Mhmm. How are we onboarding staff into our communities and helping them understand what are the expectations of the new work culture they're in? How do they meet those expectations? How do we understand the lived experiences of the the staff coming in and how do we, as supervisors, honor that as well.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:10:51]: So it's all those things that we do with students that we should just be doing with humans as they're transitioning onto our communities.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:58]: I think that's the gift of coming up through orientation is that's the natural way your brain already works is how do we successfully onboard someone into the community and then that showing up for your staff

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:11:07]: as well. 100%. We talk a lot about in in the OTR world about building institutional commitment. Some might call that finding a sense of place, finding a sense of belonging, and because we know that that's important for the retention of whether it's students or staff. If they don't find that, it's too easy to pack up and go home or go elsewhere.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:26]: What do you most want your staff members to understand when they first set foot in the community? Mhmm.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:11:31]: I think first, the purpose of our work, and we talk a lot about the why. Why are we doing this? Why are we here? So understanding that piece is is critical. I think the other piece for me in in my organization at the type of institution we work at and I think that's important, I think, for people to know too as you're onboarding, recognizing what the institution, why you're gonna work, where you have chosen to work, but understanding what it means. And and for us and for all of higher education, we're in the business of helping students realize their academic goal. We get to do a lot lot more with them, and we also understand that there's a lot more barriers that prevent people from actually reaching that, and and we, fill a lot of those spaces. But that's the ultimate goal, and so how are we able to do that? So when new staff come in, I have, AVP dean of students, Valerie Holmes, who who who talks a lot about we're in the business of breaking down barriers and creating opportunities. So at the very simplest level on our staff, that's what we're trying to do. And it might look different depending in what functional area you're working in, but we're trying to get there.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:40]: You've had a, fairly traditional career path in terms of kind of moving from that first entry level all the way through to director level, AVP, etcetera, etcetera, and now to the VP seat. There's a lot of programs I'm seeing at NASPA this year about how do I make that jump? How do I make that jump from assistant director to director? How do I make that jump from director to assistant associate dean? How do I make that jump from dean AVP to VP? Mhmm. Can you talk to us about your process in figuring out how to prepare yourself for that next thing? Sure.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:13:10]: I will. And and I've had a little bit of a traditional path, but I it I actually skipped the whole director phase, which created a whole bunch of different things that I had to be really intentional about learning because I didn't have the direct experience in doing that. When I think about putting yourself in the position to make those moves, I think that our natural nature of being learners in this field helps. And I always think about what do I wanna do next and what do I need to learn to get there. And so I think part of it is really investing in that self knowledge, that learning, understanding what it is and and where you wanna go. But I think that the other piece for me has been taking advantage of the opportunities that are available. And it's not that all of the opportunities I took advantage of someone said, Cynthia, you should do this. It was scanning the horizon that I was in and saying, I want more experience in doing that.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:14:10]: Maybe I need to go and ask to see if how can I be a part of that? And, that was a big that was a big piece for me was being able to do that. And that's what I did. I didn't know I wanted to leave the orientation world. I had done it for twelve years. I loved it. I thought I would just continue in first year programs, And then an assistant to the dean of students came available, working with Dave Parrot. And I applied for that, and and I went in and I started working for him. He was housed in the vice president's office.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:14:43]: And about six months in, I had an an, vice president, Dean Bershani, who later went on to be president at North Dakota State. And he said, I want you to come be special assistant to the vice president. And so I made that move right there. And that's why I say I skipped the whole director position. And I think it was the first time I real and we talk about linear pathways, but not really. Mhmm. For me, as a younger or a mid level professional, I think it was the first time I realized that I could move up into an AVP position without having to be the dean of students. And because if you think about

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:19]: it, this was this was quite

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:15:20]: a while ago, and there were not as many AVP roles. And even the AVP grouping was not as prominent even in NASPA. Right? So you heard about VPSAs, you heard about Dean of Students, but you didn't know about these things. So I think that was an interesting thing for me and it was really about taking advantage of the opportunities available.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:43]: Let's talk a little bit about managing up.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:15:45]: Okay.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:45]: So you've been in many positions where you were managing up to your supervisor. Now you are that person who is being managed up to. Mhmm. What advice do you have for specifically directors managing that possibly to their ABPs and VPs and how to get that information to the vice president level? And also for first year professionals who might have input that is very, very valuable or they see a different perspective on a problem set that could be solved differently. And we know that their first stop is gonna be their direct teams, but also how do they get that information to

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:16:17]: a VP? Sure. Sure. It's a great question. And it does take time to learn to manage up. I think the the first thing I would say is do a lot of listening. Do a lot of listening and observing to understand how your supervisor wants information and and needs information and what what's the type of information that they're looking and everybody's managing that. Everybody has a supervisor, whether it's me to the president, the president to the chancellor, the chancellor to the board. And so we're always trying to figure out what's the information they need, how quickly do they need it, what form do they need it in.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:16:59]: And a lot of that is just listening and understanding, trying to anticipate what are those things that are gonna be on the radar. And that's a big piece of it. Some of it is giving your staff a heads up. For my directors, being able for them to understand what does the vice president need to know, what do I need to tell my AVP so that we can get that information there so we're not caught off guard on things. The other piece I'm managing up, because that's one thing, the crisis pieces, the pieces that are might make the headlines. But the other piece is about what data is important for my vice president to know in the conversation she's in. And EAB, a long time ago, had and there were several student affairs folks who helped on this piece. They had a piece called Leveraging Data to Demonstrate Impact.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:17:51]: Mhmm. And it was the first time I had really seen what they had done is EAB had interviewed presidents and provost across the country to really ask them about what data did they need from their student senior student affairs officers, and then they distilled that by each functional area. So that was a great way to kind of learn not just the heads up crisis moments, but here's some things that I need you to think about in the conversations that you're in. When I think about new professionals and first year students and lending voices, I always say first and because I have always worked at large institutions and you talk about that inverted funnel and there's some hierarchy there and there's some hierarchy there for a reason. Mhmm. And so I always talk to first year student or first year professionals or new professionals about really using learning how to use that hierarchy and how to communicate things. But then I also talk about take advantage of the opportunities that you do have to have those moments with those leaders, whether it's your own director or directors across the division, AVPs, VP. And you do that usually through volunteering in some other spaces.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:19:07]: And I know a lot of people, maybe shy away from spending even more time volunteering in spaces outside their own functional area, but I cannot tell you how much it helps with networking and relationship building in your career. Just being able to be in spaces when you are helping people move in during move in or helping set up commencement, all those things. You get to have some conversations in spaces that maybe you wouldn't have access to individuals otherwise.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:38]: I was once at an institution that did an internal internship program where five hours a week you could be reassigned to a different department just to learn that functional area, especially great for professionals who are thinking about moving up, in that ladder or also just changing functional areas.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:19:53]: Yes. Yeah. We I mean, and you know this, and I don't know what the opportunities are now, but serving on conduct panels, right, serving as investigators, serving on your crisis response team, but then also helping with more, maybe, joy filled engagement type activities as well. There's always opportunities to to do some of that. And to your point, whether it's a structured program, which is fabulous, by the way, or an impromptu, I wanna get more knowledge on this. I remember my, when I was in my AVP role, I didn't have a whole lot of, construction under my belt, building facilities and renovating facilities. And so I went to the vice president and asked, I said, we've got this construction project coming on. Can I be on on that team that's working with with the architect and the contractors? And, he said, as long as you can get your other stuff done, we'll let you carve out some time to do that.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:20:50]: But unless I had asked that, no one was sitting there saying, somebody should tell Cynthia so see if Cynthia can be on this team. So

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:56]: One of the things you included in your bio is a personal statement. And, the personal statement is I believe in selfless service, the duty to do good, and the responsibility that comes with influence honoring the impact we have on others and the world. How did we arrive here?

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:21:12]: You know, I think sometimes it's easy to get caught up in everything that's going on and so much like our institutions or our own divisions, having our own mission statement, value statement that grounds us reminds us and gives us that lens to make decisions, to honor the staff and the students and just the humans in this life. What a blessing it is to be able to do what we do, where we do it. And sometimes it's hard to see that, in that. And so the statement for me has always grounded me in that. It's it's really a convergence of a lot of my lived experiences, my backgrounds, my identities that really leads to this place of selfless service and and that we're here to serve.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:58]: You're in Texas right now and, I had the conversation just yesterday with President Richard Walker. He was at University of Houston Clear Lake. And one of the conversations that he and I had was about how do we continue to support our students, faculty and staff knowing that legislation might be deeply impacting the way that we've done our jobs in the past, but also knowing that the students that are supported by student affairs and and the rest of the university, we're still here. Yeah. Right? Legislation isn't gonna change our identities and it's not gonna change the support that we need from the university. So how are you navigating that in the BPSA seat knowing that the way that you do the work has to be different?

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:22:35]: It's a great question. I will say first, I got named to the title nine deputy right after the February, president Obama's dear colleague letter. Twenty eleven ECL. Twenty '11 ECL. Right? Mhmm. And I really think that being in that role during that time for the next eight years where one, I learned how to pause and take a breath as things were just plain out. And and I remember then and this is applicable now. We still have students who are going through these situations

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:14]: Mhmm. And

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:23:14]: we still have students to serve and I still have a responsibility to my institution. So trying to trying to figure out to not let the noise overwhelm me was was a skill that I learned then has come in very useful now. And so, you know, we have had state legislation around some of these issues for about eighteen months now. And so we've been navigating that, and seeing the impact of that, and then learning to still help our students feel supported and valued and our staff feel supported and and valued at our campuses. We have to do that. We know that we need to do that. Honoring the lived experiences they bring, still being identity informed, not being identity exclusive, which is prohibited. And so being able to invest and being able to invest in in students and staff to be able to thrive on our campuses, Ultimately, that's my job, and we have to keep going because I have 40,000 students

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:18]: Mhmm.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:24:19]: Who are looking to us to be able to create these experiences for them and help them reach your academic goals.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:25]: We're seeing these pieces of legislation kind of permeate in other states as well. I think Texas and Florida have been kind of on the forefront. Mhmm. So what advice do you have for other student affairs professionals who are seeing this happen in their states and are going, I'm not sure how to navigate it?

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:24:39]: Mhmm. I think, you know, part of that is leaning in on your team and I know people think that it's the vice president for student affairs alone, I'm the vice president for student success, but, you know, leaning in, working with your cabinet, helping understand, going back to the mission of your institution, you know, working with your general counsel, having all of those conversations. And I'm thinking from the VP level right now on what this means and what's the impact. The other piece of it around it is how do we lean even more into student success and student support in the midst of this? And that was one of the things I really appreciated about, my president, my current president, in that how do we then look at what else do we need to do to enhance the student experience and how can we do that, within the legislation that we have and, that recommitment to student success and, students persistence and and graduation really helped us keep a focus on why we're doing what we're doing. And and so I would encourage staff to do that as well. It's a little bit different when you're, you know, working on the front end with students, working at that mid level supporting staff who also are being impacted or feeling impacted. And part of that is remaining calm, understanding that we still have a job to do. And, we just kinda we keep taking we take it day by day, and, still celebrate the joys that we have, and there are many.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:26:19]: And I think Betty talked about that too. Getting out in the spaces to see that your students are thriving in their college work. They're enjoying their college life and I know every institution is different. I work in a highly residential institution and my students are loving it and they're loving their four years. And so, yeah, reminding of the joy.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:43]: Let's transition and talk about NASPA for a minute. You've been the director of the AVP steering committee and a faculty member for the AVP Institute. This institute is pretty young in terms of NASPA initiatives. I think actually do we meet for the first time at AVP Institute? Maybe so. That seems that seems right, but I I can't remember at this point. But can you talk to us about what's important right now for NASPA and the AVP world and also for aspiring AVPs, what they might be looking at right now for their professional development?

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:27:12]: Yeah. So it was interesting. I would say I you talked about being a NODA, and I was a NODA for a good portion of my career and did or pulled back on my involvement after I finished the presidency. And it was actually through the AVP space that I got reconnected to NASPA. And they were just starting out. I went to, I think, the first AVP Institute and Penny Ryu was the director. Lori White was on there. Jason Pena was on there.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:27:42]: Some others, individuals named Hecht and others. And I got connected in that space and I talk about I loved being an AVP and I was an AVP probably I was an assistant vice president for about five years and associate vice president for, three to four years. So I was in the AVP space for seven years, which you don't see a lot of. Usually, you see people stay in that space for about maybe three years, five years, then move on into maybe VP roles. I never knew I wanted to be a VP. So that was a great connection for me, and I encourage any AVPs to to do that. I got to, as part of that experience, work on the aspiring AVP pre conference for a number of years as well. And it's really neat to see some of the people that were in those rooms in these AVP positions now.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:28:36]: And I think for me, it's funny because I don't feel like when I was coming up you heard a lot about the AVP position. Like I said, I really thought it was just Dean of Students and then you're the vice president. Right? But now there are all of these spaces and I love the AVSP space because you get to be really strategic and make connections. And growing up in orientation, I spent a lot of time making connections and I had a lot of collaboration with colleagues across campus in different divisions and departments, and I think you get to do that in the AVP space. And you're less in the day to day management of a department, so you really do get to be a little bit more strategic in that. But for those aspiring AVPs, look and see what the job is like. There's a lot more literature out there. The AVP book, in fact, anytime I get a new AVP, I give them the AVP book and we talk through through it.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:29:34]: But then also going to session so you can really understand what the work is and then also understand maybe what type of AVP position you want because they are becoming in some spaces, they're becoming more specialized. An AVP for health and well-being, AVP for student engagement, AVP auxiliaries business. And so, I think understanding that sometimes at some institutions there's those nuances or if you just want to be the really number two to the VP in in some small spaces and wear 7,000,000 different hats, there's opportunities for that too.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:12]: Think we're seeing head of staff positions come out more as well in that AVP hat space and they get to do everything which is really fun. Yes.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:30:20]: Yes. Yes. In fact, I just created a a chief associate vice president, chief of staff position and I didn't realize how much I needed it until I had it. Definitely.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:29]: Well, Cynthia, our theme for this season is the past, present, and future of student affairs. Mhmm. And so I have one question on each of those areas for you. The first is on the past. What's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively, it's time to let

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:30:45]: go of? I talked about Learning Reconsidered and every time I try to reread that one, and even Learning reconsidered to you, there's so much good information in there. But the the pieces that always stuck with me is one that we are one learning environment and that in order to be one learning environment at your institution, you have to have good collaborations with colleagues across. And where I find sometimes where we might trip up in the profession a little bit is we start to believe that we are the institution or we are the learning experience and and disregarding the extraordinary work, that people are doing across the university, our colleagues, in the provost's office, and valuing what each of them which each of us do. I think sometimes and I don't like the narrative of their student affairs and academic affairs. I kinda I I don't wanna receive that there's a attention, even though there probably is at points, but I'm just trying to figure out how are we working together. How are we translating information? How are we learning language so that we're speaking the same language about what we're doing? How are we collaborating and not competing. Just because you brought

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:08]: it up, I always have to plug this because our producer and audio engineer, doctor Chris Lewis, is the chair of the SAP and Knowledge Community, student affairs partnering with academic affairs. Mhmm. So, anyway, quick plug for that. Question on the present. What's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs? Yeah.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:32:23]: I think right now it's it's interesting. And and about two years ago, my title changed from vice president to student affairs to vice president for student success. Continuing to look at the data, mine the data, and put it in the forefront of what we needed to do. So we had to keep the conversation going on student success. And we've had these student success units forever, and they've lived sometimes under the provost's office, and we've partnered very well with them. It's been really exciting to me to see even greater convergence of these two areas. They shouldn't be separate. They need to be together.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:33:08]: What I get to do now in my work is I have all the traditional student affairs units as well as the student success units. And then now I also have some of the student services units, which are more some of the third party auxiliaries that support the student experience. But I think I'm seeing more of that now. I'm seeing less separation. Some of that's due to resources.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:28]: Mhmm.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:33:28]: We realize that we are competing and spending too much on on things, and so how do we converge them? So I'm excited about that trend a little bit. And, again, refocusing, not that we're not focused on it, but refocusing the profession on those college completion metrics and how we contribute to them.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:46]: I've always talked to my teams about the fact that students do not care how we're organized. They do not care who reports to who. They do not care if it's in academic affairs, student affairs, auxiliary functions, whatever. They just know that their experience needs to be whole. Yes. So that theme that you're talking about, I think, is a reflection of that.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:34:03]: Yes. 100%. They just see one university.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:06]: Mhmm. Right. And they shouldn't have to care about that either.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:34:08]: They should not. They should not.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:11]: And looking towards the future, in an ideal world, what does the field need to be doing to thrive towards our future?

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:34:17]: Yeah. I I talked about this a little bit earlier. I think after post pandemic saw a a shift in who was coming into the profession, how many people were coming into the profession, where we're drawing individuals for. I think in order for us to serve students well, we have to have healthy staffs. And so for me, the the future of the profession is recommitting to supervising and developing our staff at at high levels. I I just think that's imperative. I've seen too many people leave, because of the supervisor. Right? We think about Gallup's, it's the manager text out there.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:34:57]: And I think part of it's on us because we actually don't do a good job of investing and and and helping our own supervisors, grow and develop to be able to supervise staff. You know, we're busy ordering the t shirts for the next event or filing the paperwork or doing case notes that we just sometimes don't take that time to develop ourselves in that area. So I I think we need to do that. In my job as vice president, I have to make sure that my staff have the resources they need, both human and financial. And if we're spending all our time trying to fill vacancies, it's the last time we get to focus on students. So how do we continue to create healthy organizations?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:40]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:46]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. The twenty twenty five NASPA mid level administrators conference is happening June in Salt Lake in Salt Lake City, Utah. The twenty twenty five NASPA mid level administrators conference is a dynamic professional development event designed to provide mid level student affairs professionals with the opportunity to engage and learn with colleagues and senior student affairs administrators. During this two and a half day conference, participants will gain insights about promising practices to further develop professional competencies, networking, and supervisory skills, strategies to improve professional practice, and networks to advance and networks to advance your career. The mid level administrators conference is designed for student affairs professionals who serve in roles between and not including entry level positions and AVP and the equivalent roles. Additionally, professionals who have been serving in entry level roles with at least five years experience are welcome to attend. As a result of this experience, participants will be able to build and strengthen strategies for organizational leadership to include leading change, navigating institutional politics, managing resources, and supervising team members.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:06]: Develop the skills to manage from the middle, both internally and to include staff and supervisors, and externally to include stakeholders and cross campus constituents. Maximize your role to gain a deeper understanding of influence, power, and resources while advancing your professional growth and build a go to network of mid level colleagues. I hope you can join us for a conference packed with featured speakers, concurrent sessions around three key student affairs certification learning domains, small group reflection opportunities, and one on one coaching meetings. The early registration deadline will end on April 21 with the regular registration deadline ending on May 19. You can find out more on the NASPA website. There's a brand new brief that has been recently provided to NASPA members called five things student affairs practitioners should know about student well-being by Bridget Juhas at Butler University. This brief offers critical insights for student affairs professionals regarding holistic student well-being in higher education. With a focus on collaborative campus wide approaches to well-being initiatives, it emphasizes the importance of going beyond traditional mental and physical health support.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:20]: The publication offers actionable strategies for building cross campus partnerships, aligning efforts with institutional goals, and using data driven insights to enhance student outcomes. Examples of successful institutional practices are included. By engaging all campus units, institutions can create a cohesive and supportive environment that helps students thrive. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, Where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:41]: Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:09]: Chris, once again, thank you so much for giving us a great NASPA world and letting us know what's going on in and around NASPA. So, Cynthia, we have reached our lightning round. I have seven questions for you in about ninety seconds. Are you ready to roll? Here we go. Alright. Question number one. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:40:26]: Think Hold On by Wilson Phillips.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:28]: Number two, when you were five years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:40:31]: I think I mentioned earlier, I grew up in Houston, so astronaut was probably my big dream.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:36]: And the astronauts are coming home now. Hey, they are. The station. Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor? Dave Perron. Number four, your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:40:46]: You know, this is interesting. It might be a

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:47]: little

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:40:47]: controversial. Administratively Adrift by Scott Bass. He was actually the provost at American University and I'm not gonna say I liked everything that was said in that book. There's some good nuggets for us to learn from though and it helps us understand maybe some perceptions of student services in the field. Number five, the best TV show you've been binging lately? Silo. I'm a sci fi nerd.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:09]: Number six, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to in the last year?

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:41:12]: You know, I listen to a podcast called The Next Right Thing and it's by Emily P Freeman and spiritually based, faith based, but it's about we're so overwhelmed with decision fatigue. How do we just make that that next right thing, that next right decision?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:29]: And finally, number seven. Any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional?

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:41:32]: I think for me, I'm gonna give a big shout out to my mom, Martha Hernandez. She was an administrator in the Aldine School District, first gen college student, went to community college, and graduated from Texas Women's University administrator in the Aldine School District for thirty eight years, and I think it's where I I developed my love for administration. I was blessed to grow up. She was a school she was a teacher, and every summer, we had a different project we worked on. And one summer, I think about this, and we we developed a library in our garage for the neighborhood. People came and checked out books and I got to stamp them and I got to find people. I mean, if they didn't bring them back on time, but those kinds of experiences I'm very blessed because of what they taught me, and she is just she is my pillar.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:16]: Cynthia, we really appreciate you taking time out of your very busy NASA schedule to spend some time with us here on SA Voices. If anyone would like to connect with you after this episode airs, how can they

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:42:25]: find you? Well, LinkedIn, definitely. I'm on the Facebook. The Facebook. As my as my mom says, Instagram. But reaching out in the as per directory or or just Google me, I'm happy to to chat with anyone.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:39]: Well, once again, congratulations on your award. Looking forward to celebrating you as well this afternoon, and thank you so much for sharing your voice with us.

Dr. Cynthia Hernandez [00:42:45]: Thank you, Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:51]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners, and we continue to be grateful that you spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at essayvoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and please leave us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really helps other student affairs professionals find our show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:30]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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Unlocking the Potential of Community Colleges: Insights from Dr. Bette Simmons

In a captivating episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, Dr. Jill Creighton sits down with Dr. Bette Simmons, an esteemed leader in higher education, to delve into the transformative role of community colleges in today's academic landscape. Dr. Simmons, a celebrated figure in student affairs, shares her journey and insightful perspectives that challenge traditional views of community colleges and highlight their evolving importance in serving diverse student populations.

A Career Dedicated to Student Success

Dr. Simmons has devoted over four decades to enhancing student engagement, success, and leadership development, primarily within community colleges. Her career began serendipitously when a convincing interview led to an unexpected but remarkable path in student affairs at County College of Morris. Her story is a testament to the impact of passion-driven work and the profound influence mentors and community connections can have on one's professional trajectory.

Reimagining Community Colleges

The conversation challenges the outdated perception that community colleges are a "second choice" for students. Instead, Dr. Simmons emphasizes their vital role in providing accessible education and addressing the needs of underrepresented students and adult learners. She discusses the significant strides community colleges have made in workforce development and dual enrollment programs, illustrating their commitment to meeting industry needs and offering students a robust, supportive educational environment.

Tackling Student Challenges

Dr. Simmons also candidly addresses the growing challenges faced by today's students, including basic needs insecurity and mental health issues. She shares anecdotes of students who have triumphed over adversity, thanks to the supportive networks provided by community colleges. Her stories underscore the importance of holistic student support systems, which are increasingly necessary to navigate the multifaceted challenges students face in higher education today.

A Legacy of Mentorship and Leadership

As a pioneer in the development of NASPA's knowledge communities, Dr. Simmons’s contributions have shaped the broader landscape of student affairs. Her advice to new professionals is straightforward: seek connections, remain curious, and never underestimate the value of persistence and resilience in building a fulfilling career.

Why Listen?

This episode is a treasure trove for anyone interested in understanding the evolving role of community colleges and the future of higher education. Dr. Simmons’s experiences and insights not only celebrate the successes of these institutions but also advocate for their continued innovation and inclusivity. Listening to her story could ignite a deeper appreciation for community colleges and inspire educators and administrators to rethink how they can best support their students.

Tune into this enriching dialogue to explore how community colleges are not just places of learning but hubs of opportunity and transformation. TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:52]: The first episode we're going to bring you is with doctor Betty Simmons who won this year's Fred Turner award for outstanding service. Now this recording was captured live, so the audio quality may not be up to our usual standards, but I promise you that the recording and the conversation itself is incredibly rich. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Dr. Simmons. Betty is a distinguished leader in higher education and student affairs, recognized nationally as a NASPA foundation pillar of the profession, and regionally with several distinguished community college leadership awards. Betty has dedicated her career to advancing care, engagement, student success, and leadership development predominantly in community colleges. She retired from County College of Morris in 2022 where she spent forty two years advancing in various student affairs positions, ending as the VPSA overseeing initiatives focused on enhancing student development, student engagement, wellness, and retention. She's known for her collaborative leadership and commitment to fostering supportive and inclusive environments among students, student affairs professionals, faculty, and academic administrators. Throughout her career, she's implemented impactful programs that address critical student needs, including academic support centers, wellness centers, and basic needs resources.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:57]: Her expertise spans various areas of enrollment student services, student support services, and student engagement, all in the community college environment. As a respected mentor, Betty has guided countless student affairs professionals identifying and implementing effective and efficient roles and organizational structures, advocating for innovative approaches to developing strong student affairs professionals. Betty holds a doctorate in higher ed from Seton Hall University. She frequently serves as a community college and student affairs consultant on topics ranging from student affairs assessment, leadership development, and organizational management, as well as an accreditation evaluator. Betty resides in New Jersey with her partner. Now in retirement, she's found more time for volunteering in her community, traveling, especially cruising, and spending time with her family.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:39]: Betty, welcome to SA Voice News. How are you?

Dr. Bette Simmons I'm great.

Dr. Jill Creighton How's your conference?

Dr. Bette Simmons Exhausting. Yes. Still have a day and a half to go. It's just wonderful now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:49]: Yes. For our listeners, it is day two of NASA's annual conference. We're here at 08:30 in the morning, so the first session of the day. We see that many of our colleagues, may not have been able to to make it to the sessions this morning, because it was such an eventful evening last night. Last night was also Saint Patrick's Day. Dr. Bette Simmons [00:03:04]: Yeah.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:06]: Here in New Orleans. And I don't about you, but I accidentally became part of the parade.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:03:12]: I watched it from a distance

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:13]: Yeah. I was walking back from dinner, and I came right in front of our hotel, and I was, oh, I'm in this. I had to cross the street. Okay. But we're live taking today at the conference and celebrating your new award With NASPA. But congratulations

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:03:26]: Thank you so very much.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:28]: Awards are here this afternoon. Excited to celebrate you.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:03:32]: Thank you. Among many of our fellow award winners here.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:03:34]: So I'm a little. Okay. Very excited. Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:37]: But as we talk about your story today, the first question we always like to ask is, how did you get to your current seat? Now we know that you are in in retirement alone. You've had a forty two year career in student affairs, and so we'd love to hear that journey.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:03:49]: Sure. I'll make a quick story because it could be a mom's story, but to finish my undergraduate education, I had a branch of teaching assistantship to go to Harrison State University. And over the summer, I had a conversation with my father who was a high school guy in sweater. And it was tenfold because I wasn't a % sure that that's what I wanted to do. My undergraduate degree is in foreign language, Spanish and French. And I knew that I didn't wanna teach and I didn't wanna work for the government. But I didn't know what I'm allowed to do.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:04:24]: So talking with my gal, it's a question of, well, what do you wanna do? And I didn't have an answer to that. So by the end of the summer, we made a decision, my dad and I, with his help, that I'm most important girl in this country and pursue something that I wasn't passionate about. Passion is really and has all this been important to me. So I stayed in my community. I worked for a key organization for a short style. And then Mark Feller, who was an adviser board at Campbell College of Morris in New Jersey, he said, no. There's this job for delaying for educational opportunity fund. Why don't you go for that job? I'm not qualified.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:05:00]: Now you just go for it anyway. Get the experience of an interview and see where it takes you. This was in 1979. Affirmative action was all the rage. My community is a very diverse community at the time, but County College of Morris was not diverse. And so I did apply for the job. I'm interested for the job, had the best review in my entire life because in my mind, I was going to get the job. It was very relaxed.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:05:26]: I barely should work myself in practice mode. And in practice mode. Yeah. I did not get the job. But Community College of Parks was so impressed with me that they said he'd like to hire you anyway, and they created this job for me as he sits into the dean or student development. And I jumped at it because I had a wonderful experience as an undergraduate in Hunda residence halls. I was an RD, and I just endured working with students. And so that's how I dealt my career.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:05:56]: But I'm telling you, I told the vice president trajectory? Where do you see yourself going? And remember, County College of Horace is a community college. I said to him, I would like to have your job someday, but but at a real college. I will always remember those words. And for anybody who is a community college person, it's painful to hear that, to be called, you're not a real politician. The good news is I ended up with a huge job after forty two years. I remember this always at a real college and learned to appreciate the value and the work and the impact that community colleges do every single day. I am so grateful for that experience that CCI gave me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:43]: We were talking before we started taping today that you were part of the community college ethic assist squad in full

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:06:48]: of school? Absolutely. A %. Yeah. Can you talk to us a little bit about

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:52]: what community colleges meant to the communities in the areas that you became your career and that's contrasted to how would the community colleges now?

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:07:01]: That's a great question. Now back in the eighties, at least in Morris County, let me give you a little bit of history of Morris County. It is a wealthy county. It's one of the wealthiest counties in the country and the sense among the community is that you don't go to County College Morris Avenue Branch Pick High School. You weeds. You go somewhere else. You go to to send you somewhere else. It's only those people who, it's probably not going to be their career goal to go to college, just go to Camden.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:07:33]: Or if you were looking to just get a couple of credits and dig yourself, go to Camden. It wasn't well respected and I think that that's historical community colleges in our history that we are second class, third class, and fourth class citizens and not the places for students to go. And also the student experience, you just go to the class and then you leave. There is no campus life. There is no student engagement. There is no leadership development. That's not true. And that was one of the things that was really important to me when I began my career at Cameron College of Mars is to embrace that we can be a real college even greater than we already are.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:08:13]: And we look at how many people are now enrolling in community colleges across the country and how well respected we are and the opportunities for people who may be underrepresented or may not be ready for the traditional college experience right out of the gate or for that adult in mutual who is really looking to retrain, tool, and get something new or get more, you have a pump in place, Lori, and we have better respect for community colleges today than we did forty years ago.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:44]: We're seeing community colleges being first choice. I suppose. Absolutely. I see community colleges doing a much better job

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:08:50]: at meeting industry Yes. With ACT. The workforce development conversation started in community colleges because you were really focused on what is the community and so as it's it's really interesting to watch the trajectory of community colleges and how people are now making that economic decision that I can still get to University of Maryland, where Cornell, we work with David transfer students, like, going through the community college, really strong integration. And then hear from the students to come back and say, you know, I was better prepared because of my time at CCM than I if I were a freshman starting at four years SOLID. It's it's just a, a wonderful, wonderful option. We also started both in

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:32]: the Middle East conversation, Virgin Olive Community Colleges rather than the four year where our doctoral degree in directing institution FC. Can you talk to us about what that conversation was like when you were first having it?

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:09:43]: You know, it was like, what? Why would that be? It's it's all about the preparation and the contribution of of all of your education, but also the complete development and experience that the community colleges can give both inside the classroom as well as outside the classroom. And I was forever arguing my students about the learning that occurs outside the classroom that will set the student up for the rest of their life. The fact that they will remember in more cases than not something that happened outside the classroom than what they learned inside the classroom. They will connect with a counselor and I have a counselor or adviser who is here in the audience with me today. They will remember their experience with that person more than they will in some cases with some of your faculty as they move through that educational layer and then the contributions that they have during the whole way.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:34]: What else was born in the community colleges throughout your career that maybe you're seeing other institutions like sacred for now?

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:10:41]: Sure. Dual enrollment is gonna be you know, I made a decision to stay in higher ed because I didn't wanna work in, the primary and secondary, educational environment. Well, they're on campus now, and they're there in large numbers. And post COVID, a lot of colleges are really relying on dual enrollment. Those high school students who are high achieving or looking to really strengthen their academic experience sooner rather than later. And to see more students graduating college even before they get their high school diploma, that was really born in 18 colleges. And to see four year colleges now in that space, in some cases, at least in New Jersey, taking credit for it on your cutting edge, when your tuition rate. It's amusing.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:11:28]: It's amusing. Sing with adult learners. She needed a college. We're building space when you count view of the time, adult learners will flock to the community colleges because I needed to improve in order to get up in the work. You see now more of our four year counterparts, our baccalaureate counterparts engage in the adult learner more because they understand that that's where the population is gonna come from. It's not always just in one compartment.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:53]: We also see in the community college system as time has gone on, again, with that first choice implement, we're seeing that transfer articulation agreement change over time. What was that like with that started?

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:12:04]: First of all, you know? So in New Jersey, before we had legislation that said you must, it was a bit of a struggle. We have some institutions that we your students could get to when they went down the end of the loss as credit. There would not be any question about the value of the education that students experience when they came to college. A favorite story that that I had was a student was taking a course to attend our school. It was taught by a faculty member who was a faculty member at a four year institution, exact same curriculum, exact same textbook. Everything was the same. It was just being taught in your campus. When the student went to transfer the course, he wasn't gonna transfer.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:12:42]: And so we had to go to the four year school when the argument is being taught by your instructor. This This is the same curriculum as what your instructor will be teaching. We really had to fight tooth and nail to get our credits recognized. Over time and through the health legislation in some cases, there was an appreciation or the value of what's happening in classroom, community college the home experiences, that there's less equity in what was being taught in the curriculum, and there's a smoother path for transfer. There's still some challenges, and that happens a lot when students change their minds. After I graduated my community college, am I gonna go something that's different? Well, I'm not necessarily gonna guarantee that complete transfer, but we work at, and we had those conversations for the four years falls.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:26]: How have you seen the student needs change over the course of the time you've been at the community college system? Especially community colleges.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:13:34]: You inspect if people are struggling. That's one of the reasons why they come. It's the economics of it. We're less expensive. We'll close our own. We don't have to worry about room and board. And it didn't have the problems with the basic needs that we have today. In the nineteen eighties, sure, were there problems? Absolutely.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:13:51]: But to the the impact that we're seeing today, with so many students who are couch surfing or sleeping in their cars or not sure where they're going to be to take a shower the next day. They're not able to be top to side what to do with your children because they can't afford childcare, and they've gotta be able to do something. That wasn't to the extent that it is today. And the ability that the community college has is particular to help students identify and rarely get resources, but also provide more additional scholarship numbers for them. I do not have conversations with students who would say to me, you mean I could come and not pay a dime because of scholarships that you are giving in addition to what the 500 state couple minutes again? Absolutely. If your need is that high, we can do that. And then that will save you some money along the way so you will continue to transfer onto that four years full and get there. It's so much freer than ever.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:14:50]: And it's you see that's the shift in how the credit students are taking because they can only afford this much. And so that, you know, extends the trajectory to get them to serious needs, debris, or whatever, denture they're going for. It's so heart wrench to see the struggles that students are experiencing today, the mental health issues that students are experiencing, the students who are learning disabilities and learn differently. It wasn't human magnitude that it is to gain. We didn't see it as much back in these.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:17]: I know you mentored literally thousands, if not tens of or hundreds of thousands of students per

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:15:22]: your career.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:22]: Do you have a favorite student success story?

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:15:25]: Oh my goodness. I have so many. I have so many. But there was a student at County College of Morris, and Maureen Moody, or I might remember Ross, she was a student with a disability, an older student. She was already there when I came to County College of New York, seeing it, and she was wreaking havoc with the vice president of student development at the time. She didn't take one the rest of the time. So she was probably our longest enrolled student. She was angry on occasions, and she was a delight to work with on other occasions.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:15:56]: But she challenged us. She actually helped push the college to really recognize what the needs of students with disabilities were and how to respond to those. And, again, this was happening in the first of the eighties and the nineties. The ADA was not as in-depth as it is now in the support services around students with disabilities. She lived in housing and transportation was a big issue where she could find food was an issue. Making sure that she bought for classes that she wanted, the faculty that she wanted. She was a chairman. She had a lot of anger inside and pain for what she experienced, but she still marched on.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:16:34]: She dealt with a realistic medical issues during her tenure. I think it took Roscoe's to seventeen, eighteen years to get her associate's degree. When we walked that young woman in my opinion across the stage, it was heart wrenching, tear jerking. The whole college community knew Roz and knew what she learned to work. To see her graduate was just a magnificent experience because Ed's munch to her and we look we had to do together with us. That's like I'm a little Mary Faber, whoever I've

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:05]: seen in Ferrisburg, right? Yes. Absolutely.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:17:08]: And she was also engaged in campus life. So it's not just about the classroom, it's about the student activities and what are the events and having many a possible premiere, an individual with multiple disabilities to be a normal student. We have to get creative and she helped teach us along the way. I think those are my favorite moments when

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:27]: you get to see a student across the graduation stage that you know has been engaged with many, many support services. And you also know that you can't celebrate that as loudly as you want to. And so I think, generally, you're just For biggest challenge. Absolutely. Yeah. Now you've had a career at basically the same institution for a great chunk of of your time in the profession, which I mean is pretty rare.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:17:49]: I think

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:49]: that there's anality in student affairs that you need to move out to, I think, partially because we have, you know, the in response to which, you know, there's only one senior senior affairs officer position. Maybe there's two AV key, you are a q four. Many, many more director opportunities, things like that. But being at the same institution, requires a level of patience. Yep.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:18:09]: A trigger for Greerbrook that

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:11]: I think, that we see in the profession now, we we do have a well earned eagerness to grow our careers Yes. Knowing that, you know, there are there are just limitations to, you know, who's gonna move forward. Sydney, you talked about the journey of of choosing to stay at one institution and choosing to grow within it? Sure.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:18:28]: It's a great question too. And you know the interesting thing is I didn't choose to stay. In my mind again because I wanted to get to a real college and in my mind that was a private knowledge, I was only gonna stay for two years. But the college took an estimate in me and after those two years passed and our years was on and I knew from an assistant dean's position to to a counseling position, I felt that, okay, Hudson really set some roots here for sure at times. And after eight years as a counselor, I decided that it was time for me to leave the college. Well, the college didn't want me to leave. And the individual who was one of my professional mentors, doctor Edward J. Yaw, he was Jack with him and Dean at the time, Katie King, college's president.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:19:11]: And he said to me, Benny, you need to lay my office and he and our ambassadors. You need to work on establishing relationships with community and it's about who understands the the thinking of students, what their needs are. You need someone who has a good relationship with people on campus. Would you be willing to do that? It was a leap of faith for him and it was a risky move for me because of choking out of student affairs, which is where my card was, working with students, eyes of the door, looking at students. But I also knew that my director of counseling thought I was too involved in other areas outside of the counseling office. And then I was losing my way. This is what they did to counseling. So I knew that I couldn't stay there.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:19:51]: So I took that heat buffet and of work, as he has sipped into the president for four years. It was one of the smartest professional moves that I made because I was able to get a thorough understanding of the entire operation working out of the president's office. Look working with work trustees, working with the mayor of the community. I was the funded action officer at the time and got to work even more closely with faculty and other individuals. I would not have had that opportunity had I stayed where I was, and it would have taken me a while if I'd left for college to establish that type of work, opportunity to become what they good old to me. So I did not for four years and I enjoyed it. Learning enough of finances, I'm learning enough strategic planning, I'm learning about, you know, facilities management. It was all part of what I was doing in the president's office.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:20:40]: And then we went through a reorganization because hospice containment needed to happen, and it was decided upon position as assistant to the president wasn't necessary. So I started looking again. And during college course, I once again stepped down and said, no. We don't want him to leave. We would like to see him go back from his student affairs area as he said 15. But we were getting rid of the vice president. When we eliminated the vice president's position, there was some penis students, and he wanted me to come back and pay the dean's students. Interesting thing, and when we talked about it actually just this morning, I ended up with math and being responsible there supervising the department that I left.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:21:18]: The counseling office there were just me. So all of my colleagues in the counseling office who were colleagues at the time were down to my staff. And it was a wonderful experience at the end. I'll rake the spout for the work that we do in student affairs. I loved what I did. And that's when I've also became from the University of NASA. And our dean of students like the Turing said, Betty, you've got to go to NASA. You've got to study the way some of the principles that that organization has to build without lived artificial vision, especially after a reorganization where we lost the vice president.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:21:48]: So I did. And one thing after another, he left. I said, okay. I'm gonna leave. And I thought, well, I'm gonna leave. We want you to come in as a dean of students. Every time I called about leaving the college, the college said, don't want me to leave. We have more for you, and we want you to do more for us.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:22:06]: And I lived in the community. I've worked there for so long. You establish roots that you're not willing to live in a follow-up, and I didn't see many to to leave. So every time I called that evening, they're held a separate. The major event that really solid quite a nice time there was I'm a super talented student. The former academic vice president had moved up to Rockley Community College in New York State, as a president. He called me and Betty Lippert College for vice president of Superfairs at Rockland Community College. Oh, him out of that.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:22:37]: Oh, what I'm not gonna get? They're not gonna hire me. They offered me a job. Do I stay where I'm comfortable? Or do I take the rest and do I leave and go someplace and explore? You fly out. The grass will start on the other side of the dance. Pause me now to say to say yes, but then can we fall into the forest? Step up and say, what? You wanna be a vice president? Okay. We're gonna merge your corporation with the enrollment services division, and we want you to be the key to student the adviser for doing the student development enrollment issue. You've got it. They increased my portfolio.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:23:10]: I'm keen on saying, you know, it's a mix. And I love that poster. I love the people that I worked with. I love the work that we did. So even though I didn't necessarily plan to begin, it was hard to leave. And after forty two years, it shows you. I think it shuts in there and us to the same institution. I really can't handle that.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:23:28]: You're probably the luck that we were able to accomplish.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:30]: You mentioned your entree of to NASPA. And one of your, I think, biggest hallmarks for our organization here is, you still identify as the grandmother of the knowledge of new. Yes.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:23:41]: Yeah. Could you talk to us another? Sure. I was attending a NASA conference. Shannon Ellis was the president at the time or the chair of the board now. And Teresa Powell that since passed away was at Temple, and she is becoming the the chair of the board. I said to Theresa, and we are closing, I wanna do something to help you in your your positivity. So they had I said, okay. Sure.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:24:05]: Boom. They wanna hear, you know, that's national director of massive networks. So those were very little social, if we accept NAST. How I said, oh, sure. Okay. I can do that. As we were going through the transition, because you come here as elect and then you become the national director. So while I was in the Atlanta status, I can recall from a student and Theresa, She also had my own education director.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:24:31]: She also had my own education in the college tomorrow, so I knew. I think I can. I'm never a mentor. And they said, we got this really neat idea. We want the networks to grow. We want the networks to become UNESCO's entree into the profession for individuals and to kind of create these affinity groups. And we want them to be acknowledged communities. Are you going to stay with us, you develop these? As Crystal knows, you don't have to say no to any one of those.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:24:59]: Yeah. And so I did, and I started out making that transition from networks to knowledge communities. And I will tell you, Jeff, at the time, when this happened, you will not have any more than 12 communities. How does this happen? You have over everything. Over the hundred likes. So it's amazing as the grandmother of the Casey to see how many children. I would

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:22]: just let you know in the audience, we're just going in for a number of at least one Casey or at least, like, I don't know, like, five,

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:25:28]: I think. And to Gwen's credit, she has this vision, and she can articulate it in such a way that it helps to really set the stage and set the foundation for this is what we should create. We knew the knowledge, peace, we knew the networking was still important. And there were some networks that it was a little bit of a struggle to get them to make that shit, especially if their dad would be based ones. It was, you know, it was more of a daddy or wasn't acknowledged. Well, how can we partner? And we keep doing it, and it's successful, honestly, because we're getting ready to celebrate twenty five years of knowledge candidates. Mhmm. So I'm going fast.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:26:03]: That's amazing. I feel like you're NASDAQ team is good. Yeah. Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:07]: You also sent time in the region to your advisory board. You spent time in the foundation board. You so weaving your way through NASCLA, do you have any advice for professionals who are looking to become more adult?

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:26:17]: Sure. Connect with someone. If you see someone walking down the corridor or you hear a speaker, well, don't be afraid to step up to that person and say, I just dreamt to speak. I would like to chat with NASPA and how I can get involved. Our president, Amelia Purnell, is awesome. She's very approachable. Kev was the same way. The NASPA board of directors are a terrific group of people.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:26:43]: Having Sarah Devs chair of the foundation board getting involved in fundraising, fund development. There were so many people who know so much about NASPA that it's easy for someone who is new to the association to say, hi. I'd like to be involved. Go through the commons area and just chat with anybody. They'll pull you in. That's possibly pulling folks in. And then we could do one thing. It's not that hard to present a program or go to a region or get for KC unit that is Glenda and just offered volunteer at the moment.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:27:16]: But this all it took was one step. And then here you are, forty five years later as the grand mayor of Nazareth.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:24]: Well, Betty, this season of our podcast is focused on the past, present, and future of student affairs. So we're out seeing Oliver has the season to respond to one question each on past, present, and future. So I'm gonna ask you first, in our past, what's one component of the history of student the question that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively can let go? You know, it makes me think back to

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:27:47]: my graduate courses, and my doctoral courses in higher education and when we talk about student affairs and the way a casting affairs came towards us And it was all about taking care of her students. And as people who have worked for you know, first, second, last is always about students. And we should never use that sleep because the work that you do is helping to enrich that at whatever stage the marital graduate they are. I think student affairs is really embracing students even more so because of the basic needs that we talked about, the differences in their learning styles, the language they interact. We certainly have COVID students now. For years, social and emotional learning is a challenge because they haven't had that experience to the extent of early sphere. So if we keep the students first and foremost in our line of sight, then I think that the student affairs profession will continue to do the right one that we do. I also think something that got to let go of is not paying attention to our staff.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:28:51]: And we tend to focus on lunch with students that we forget that the statins giving twenty four seven of their time, and I'm gonna take care of our staffing. It's kind of what we heard in our opening session from Amelia. It's and was awesome. They were really strong when we talked about the joy and the pain. We're all experiencing one as professionals. And sometimes we just put that behind us because I'm gonna really focus on those students. So I'd say, don't let that go. Key fellows will be far.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:21]: Into the choices, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs?

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:29:25]: There's a whole new crumb of these student affairs professionals coming up. In spite of challenges to be in our profession, we've got the younger generation that's really excited about our work. They've had a really exciting college experience as undergraduates. They wanna be a part of Booking Jeep on a daily basis. I think that that gives me hope for in the future, because the present is really incubate a whole crop of senior Garrett's professionals that will feature a profession of our so kinda AT and T questions at

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:56]: once they're in and out. And looking at the future in an ideal world, what

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:30:00]: does the needle need to do to cry towards our future? Mhmm. Especially now, I know this question may have hit different. Yeah. I have

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:07]: a little bit of sound.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:30:08]: Yeah. Def we tend to continue to have to justify our existence and our worth and our value. And I know that NASA has got a task force, right, you know, that is really taking a look at strategic planning and setting the the the course of our future and trying to understand not just the work and value of going to college, but the work and value of student affairs. And I think that we have to stop apologizing for who we are and getting the rest of the world to understand that you all can't exist with Alice. And I think student affairs has got to stay strong with that. That, yeah, we are the ones that you will call when there is a crisis. We are the ones that you will call when you need to figure out something to empower the whole student. We are the ones who are willing to hear the differences of the lives of the students throughout their entire career.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:30:53]: So we need to stop apologizing for who we are and really tell people, you need us. So leave us alone. And don't tell us how to do our jobs. We know how.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:17]: Or NCCWSL unites college women and gender nonconforming students from across the nation for a transformative experience in leadership development, networking, and inspiration. Tailored for undergraduate students who identify as women or outside the gender binary, NCCWSL provides a welcoming and empowering space for to build leadership skills, connect with peers, and find inspiration to drive change. Through engaging workshops and hands on activities, NCCWSL challenges and inspires attendees to make meaningful impacts on their campuses and communities long after the conference ends. The conference is happening May 28 through May 30 in College Park, Maryland, and the call for proposals is currently open until 04/07/2025. If you are a speaker, facilitator, educator, or a student that wants to submit a proposal for the conference, we encourage you to submit your proposal by April 7 to be able to be considered for that. The four learning outcomes that the conference is focusing on is awareness of self and others, career engagement, civic engagement policy and advocacy, and leadership development. Again, April 7 is the date to be able to submit your proposal and encourage you to do just that. You can find out more on the NASPA website.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:42]: The NASPA emergency aid micro grant initiative is currently open. The application opened the application opened on March 25 and closes on 04/08/2025. Unexpected Unexpected and emergency expenses remain a persistent barrier to on time college completion and student success. A staggering number of students, particularly those enrolled at public two year and most minority serving institutions, report that they would be unable to come up with $500 within a month. NASPA has a deep commitment to addressing basic needs of college students, and we recognize the importance of emergency aid programs in supporting the persistence of students facing unexpected financial crises. This year, NASPA is awarding two and four year accredited institutions with emergency aid micro grants sponsored by TIAA. NASPA is awarding selected institutions with up to $10,000 to provide emergency aid resources directly to students. To apply for this, you can go on to the NASPA website to complete a application form and expect to receive a link to the contact for all application correspondence and only one application per institution will be accepted.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:02]: Again, find out more about the NASPA emergency aid micro grant initiative on the NASPA website. Finally, today, there's a new culture of respect webinar that is happening called evaluating title nine cases without gender bias on 04/17/2025 at 3PM eastern. Researchers find that essentially all reports of sexual abuse are credible, but the vast majority of title nine complaints end in inaction. In this workshop, doctor Nicole Badera will reflect on her year long ethnographic study of one university's Title IX process and explore the reasons that Title IX administrators hesitated to intervene in clear cut cases. Specifically, this workshop will focus on the role of gender bias throughout the Title IX process. Throughout the Title IX process, including staff interactions with complainants and respondents, expectations guiding informal resolution, assessment of evidence in investigations, sanctioning decisions, and provision of supportive measures. You can find out more and sign up for this great online learning opportunity in the NASPA online learning community at learning.NASPA.org. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:19]: So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association, and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:41]: Chris, thank you so much for letting

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:42]: us know what's going on in and around NASPA. We always appreciate your update. And, Betty, it is time for our lightning round.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:36:51]: What about seven questions in about ninety seconds? Okay. Ready? Yep. Alright. Question number one. If you were a conference keynote seeker, what were your entrances be? Fantasy. Bright Earth Moon Fire. Number two. When you were five years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up? A library.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:37:06]: I loved books. I loved being in the library and it started when I was very young reading.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:12]: Number three. Who's your most influential professional mentor? Gwen Dungey. Number four, and your last question,

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:37:17]: your essential student affairs read. So it's really funny because I get an interim a yearning, and I made the staff read Amelia Parnell's data book because David is so critically important to the work video now, and they had no idea about David and Sedo Harris.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:33]: Number five. The best TV show that you've been vinging, like The Pit.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:37:37]: I haven't heard that. Oh, you have to see The Pit. It's an emergency room in Pittsburgh, and it's like modern day era VR. I mean, apparently, the people in in emergency rooms of it, it is the most realistic version. Yeah. Aside from that, I watch zero again, which is very applicable what's happening in today's topic. Right? You've seen it? Number six. The podcast you expect the most Alice's

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:00]: week to in the last year.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:38:02]: This one. Oh, I've never known podcasts before. Okay. I'm old school. I'm I'm I'm I'm People are. We're not giving you these bags. And so when you all contacted me to do this, I said, oh, I gotta listen to a podcast. So I went on the site and then listened to your podcast that Mike's Yahoo did.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:38:19]: Mike's person was Jay. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. Awesome.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:22]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional?

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:38:27]: So I wanna give a shout out, but never hear it really. I'll make him, to my partner in life, Tyrone. He has been with me for over forty years through his journey. And without him and his support, his understanding, and willingness to be second class to my profession, I wouldn't be where I am today. I also wanna give a shout out to my staff because what I can get to accomplish as a professional, I couldn't have done it without the normal team. At County College of Morris, as I always said, we had the best, the best team on the college campus. They were so and any of my staff from County College of Morris get an opportunity to hear because it's it's one of them.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:08]: Buddy, I so appreciate getting to learn more of their story today and kind of hear the reflections on a four decade career and see if there's how things have changed, how things are kinda the same, and we're leveling now. So you just fit so beautifully in this season of the past, present new future of student affairs. And once again, congratulations on your life. It's a student who is Jeremy.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:39:26]: I would appreciate that. If anyone would like to fit from

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:29]: a conversation with you after this episode, but it was happy to be fine here.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:39:32]: So, I am on LinkedIn. Apparently, I'm on Facebook too, but I spend more time on LinkedIn for more professional visits. And you could always look me up in the in the NASA membership directory, send me an an email, shoot me a text message. I'm more than happy to. Betty, thank you so much

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:46]: for sharing your voices. That's the name.

Dr. Bette Simmons [00:39:48]: Thanks for giving me the opportunity to pray.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:55]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners, and we continue to be grateful that you spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at SAvoices@NASPA.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and please leave us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really helps other student affairs professionals find our show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton. That's me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:35]: Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

View Details

In recent years, the landscape of substance use and recovery on college campuses has witnessed transformative shifts, urging a nuanced approach that combines compassion, education, and empowerment. In a revealing conversation on the "Student Affairs Voices from the Field" podcast, experts Dylan Dunn and Sydney Chifetz from the SAFE Project delve into their experiences and strategies in collegiate harm reduction and recovery, providing invaluable insights for higher education professionals.

Prioritizing Student Autonomy and Education

Dylan and Sydney emphasize the significance of placing students at the forefront of harm reduction efforts. Encouraging students to take charge of their health decisions, the duo highlights the importance of respecting student autonomy. By adopting motivational interviewing techniques and fostering open dialogue, professionals can aid students in discerning their relationship with substances and empower them to make informed choices.

Education emerges as a key pillar in this process. Students often lack essential knowledge about the substances they encounter, making educational initiatives crucial. Clear, unbiased information equips students to navigate their substance use responsibly and safely.

Navigating Stigma and Compliance

Addressing stigma in the context of substance use is paramount. Dylan points out that stigmatizing perceptions create an "us versus them" mentality, hampering open discussions and effective interventions. By cultivating an environment rooted in dignity and understanding, campus professionals can bridge the gap between students and necessary support systems.

Simultaneously, the conversation underscores the challenge of aligning harm reduction strategies with compliance requirements, such as the Drug Free Schools and Communities Act. The speakers advocate for an approach that balances legal mandates with empathetic, realistic support mechanisms, ensuring students' holistic well-being and safety.

Leveraging Community and Resources

The SAFE Project team underscores the power of community collaboration. By engaging with partners beyond campus boundaries, colleges can tap into external resources and expertise, enriching their support systems. This collaborative approach not only enhances the available resources but also fosters a sense of belonging and support for students navigating recovery journeys.

Paving the Way Forward

In envisioning the future, Dylan and Sydney advocate for a student affairs approach steeped in curiosity, care, and judgment-free zones. Authentic engagement with students' lived experiences can lead to meaningful change, paving the way for healthier campus environments.

As student affairs professionals, embracing these principles can reshape how campuses address substance use, fostering environments where students feel heard, supported, and empowered to overcome challenges. Through intentional, compassionate actions, higher education institutions can truly become beacons of hope and healing for students in recovery.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is season 12, continuing our journey through the past, present, and future of student affairs. I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on Essay Voices, we bring you an episode that talks about recovery and addiction with college students with two colleagues that are higher ed adjacent working at the SAFE project. Our first guest is Dylan Dunn, hehim. Dylan has dedicated his career to transforming cultures, systems, and programs to empower individuals in recovery and those impacted by addiction and overdose. Throughout his time at Safe Project and in his current professional role as the senior director of Safe Campuses, Dylan has worked with students, faculty, and staff at over 550 campuses and in all 50 states to implement holistic student support, harm reduction and recovery programs, and provide professional development opportunities.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:02]: Prior to his work at the SAFE project, Dylan has served as the collegiate recovery program coordinator at the University of Denver where he developed and launched recovery support, stigma reduction, and naloxone availability programs in the memory of Jonathan Winifield. From this work, Dylan has been the recipient of the 2019 NASPA Now Award for Innovation in the Field of Student Affairs. Before his work at the University of Denver, Dylan was a founding advisor for the recovery support community at Colorado State University as well as a residence hall director, student conduct hearing officer, and case manager. Dylan's work is informed by his experience growing up in rural Ohio, the youngest child of a large family involved in the drug trade, and later through the journey of helping his parent along their recovery journey. Dylan holds a master of science in student affairs in higher education from Colorado State University, as well as a bachelor of arts in philosophy and a bachelor of arts in criminology and criminal justice from The Ohio State University. Our second guest is Sydney Chifetz, Miles per hour, deputy director of Safe Campuses, who brings ten years of experience in global health, collegiate recovery, disease prevention, and health education to the field. Currently, Chifetz builds and oversees Safe Projects student development programs, providing learning, advocacy, and leadership opportunities to students nationwide rooted in equity, empowerment, and public health principles. Before joining SAFE Project in 2022, Trifetz led alcohol and other drug prevention, harm reduction, and recovery programs at Gonzaga University.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:21]: Additionally, she served in the field of global health and education in Southern Brazil and on the Polio Eradication Initiative in Northern Nigeria. Sydney holds a master of public health from Oregon State University and is certified in motivational interviewing, recovery coaching, and ethical public health research. She was the recipient of the Oregon State University twenty eighteen Global Consciousness Award and Gonzaga University's twenty twenty one Outstanding New Student Affairs Professional Award. Welcome to the show, Sydney.

Sydney Chifetz [00:02:47]: Hey, Jill. How are you today?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:49]: I'm doing great. Thank you so much. And Dylan, welcome.

Dylan Dunn [00:02:51]: Hey. Thanks for having

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:52]: us. This is a bit of an unusual episode for us here at SA Voices because normally we're featuring the voices of student affairs professionals. But today, we're thrilled to bring you both in from the SAFE project, which is a nonprofit organization that works with what I would call student affairs adjacent work. So we're in the health promotion space using student affairs language. And the safe project was founded in November of twenty seventeen by admiral James and Mary Winifield following the loss of their 19 year old son, Jonathan, to an accidental opioid overdose. And this family immediately channeled the grief into action, hoping to save more families from the pain of loss, whether it was seeking treatment, getting answers or understanding the nature of the diseases. They, they knew that they needed to be a different solution to helping other families facing the same journey with substance use disorders. And so therefore SAFE Project was created and they're working towards meaningful action through programs and leading efforts that are unifying, nonpartisan and evidence based.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:45]: SAFE seeks meaningful metrics that are strengthening our independent six lines of operation and ultimately aim to achieve safe communities, campuses, workplaces, and veterans across the nation. So today we're focusing on the campuses element. Why don't we get started with asking you both how you got to your current seat in your work with this nonprofit?

Dylan Dunn [00:04:02]: Sure. So, again, my name is Dylan. I'm the senior director of our campuses team, which is, as you said, one arm of the safe project team. And I am a student affairs professional by trade. I'm a graduate of the CSU SAHE program. And when I was at Colorado State University, that was when Jonathan Munafald passed away. So I was just 40 miles, 50 miles up the road. And when I graduated from CSU after doing collegiate recovery work there while also working in housing, I got hired at University of Denver to start the program in Jonathan's memory.

Dylan Dunn [00:04:29]: And so after a year of working at DU, establishing an collegiate recovery program doing opioid overdose prevention work, I knew it was time for me to go. So I ended up getting hired at Safe Project to help however I could. And then after a a couple months, they realized that I was a student affairs professional, and it would make sense for me to be on the campuses team. And so I've been on the team ever since, and it's been a heck of a journey.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:47]: Sydney, how about you?

Sydney Chifetz [00:04:48]: Yeah. So I got started in public health. I was living for a time in Brazil and saw the impacts of infectious diseases there, so decided to get my master's degree and was very fortunate to accept a student a graduate teaching assistantship at Oregon State University where I worked with the collegiate recovery community. I'm a person whose family has been deeply impacted by addiction, so I was grateful for that opportunity while I studied infectious disease and my master's in public health. I graduated and took a position at Gonzaga University where I was a health educator and then later a health promotion specialist. So I no longer work in the field of infectious diseases, and I'm, as you said, higher education or I'm sorry, student affairs adjacent now. But what I liked most kind of shifting into this role is college is such a transformative time for so many folks, and it's a really important time when we think about kind of developing lifelong skills and particularly discerning health behaviors and education, particularly around substance use. It's been a really great opportunity.

Sydney Chifetz [00:05:40]: So when I came about at Safe Project, I love doing this work on a national scale and then also in the work that we do now, empowering students to kind of lead the charge on their own campuses. So a roundabout way, but I got here eventually.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:53]: This work is something that has been important for colleges and universities for the last several decades. I feel like when the opioid epidemic was first becoming part of the consciousness of collegiate prevention work, that was probably about twenty years ago at this point in time, and it was very, very focused on for a while. And that has quieted over time, and I I believe we're starting to see that work kind of come back into the consciousness more than it has in the past. But what are the the top things that you're focusing on right now in the prevention and recovery space for campuses?

Dylan Dunn [00:06:24]: I think it often breaks into two pieces for us. One is collegiate recovery. We do a lot of work with students around recovery, and I'll defer Sydney on that here in a second. But we do a lot of work also with opioid overdose prevention and response. Some of that work is directly with NASPA also. And so we help campuses build the systems, the infrastructure, the readiness, and then find the resources to do things like naloxone distribution and education, naloxone being the drug that folks use to, reverse an overdose. But that is kind of our technical work that we do, I would say, where we're doing a lot of, like, if this, then that, and if this, then that over and over again to help people build these programs. But Sydney does some really great work around empowering students in recovery and helping students be a part of this work.

Dylan Dunn [00:07:02]: So I wanna pass it to her for that.

Sydney Chifetz [00:07:03]: Yeah. So thanks, Dylan. As it pertains to collegiate recovery communities, a lot of our work focuses on ensuring that students are kind of leading the charge there, knowing that they are the ones most impacted and they are really the ones that should be the biggest stakeholder in this work. So we bring on a cohort of fellows each year that do the boots on the ground work and just we provide some of that coaching and guidance as they do the work. A key focus of ours now, as Dylan has said, is the prevention, a lot of harm reduction because that's where the focus of students has been over the past couple years. And then as it pertains to recovery, ensuring that collegiate recovery communities are more inclusive, we've certainly seen a change over time. And what does it mean to identify as a person in recovery? What does a person need to have in order to be part of a collegiate recovery community? And then are some of those barriers that are placed onto these programs ensuring that all students feel like they are part of that and can seek those resources? And then to the point of prevention, we're having these conversations about how can we ensure that our prevention approach focuses on public health so it's much more holistic, shifting away as I'm sure, you know, everybody is now from this just say no message or even just this, like, education is all that folks need to what calls a person to use or overuse alcohol or other drugs? What are the conditions in their life? Whether that's a lack of emotional intelligence or hope healthy coping strategies or, for college students, right, support systems or outlets that they might have. So thinking about holistic health and and taking that public health approach to prevention nowadays.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:38]: That public health approach to prevention, I feel like, has been really strong in higher education in the last several years. And I think one of the things that we struggle with is where should we be focusing our efforts? I think harm reduction related to alcohol has been a primary focus of higher ed administrators for a long time, largely because it's prevalent in the culture of American collegiate society in ways that we don't see in other countries. And then we add in these elements of harm reduction related to cannabis use, harm reduction related to substances that for lack of a better term, come in and out of fashion almost where we see certain substances being more popular in different eras over time than kind of falling by the wayside and new substances coming into the community and things like that. So when we think about the work that you're doing, how do you recommend campuses approach this harm reduction effort knowing that it's not just one substance that we're trying to help students figure out how to reduce their harm against or to stop usage or to do whatever they need to do to help someone else recover.

Dylan Dunn [00:09:38]: We have professionals who talk to us a lot about, like, the new substance on the block. Like, oh, we had we a parent reached out because we heard that some student or somebody got injured by a substance that they'd never heard of before, and the fear of that will then cause a lot of stir. The thing that makes our job easy in those moments is we're not actually chasing the substances anymore. We're chasing the principles of this work so that it's about education. It's about empowerment. It's about making sure that students feel like they have what they need. Yes. Sometimes that is substance dependent, but sometimes making sure they have what they need to navigate their own wants and needs well.

Dylan Dunn [00:10:13]: Sometimes that means they got in trouble and we figure out how do we stop that, or how do we kind of navigate the realities of the world around them. But our goal is to stay principled enough in public health principles and harm reduction principles and all of that so that we can stay balanced. And, like, we're not gonna be so surprised by a new substance that we're kind of knocked off kilter and don't know what to do next. And so it's about us being informed by trends, but not trying to be trendy is the way that I explain it a lot. Because the trendiness makes our job harder because we're always chasing, and we're trying not to do that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:41]: I like that because what it shows is that the abuse of substances is likely related to other conditions, not necessarily related to whether a substance is most popular at the moment. You mentioned the principles of harm reduction and public health being core to the work. Can you talk a little bit about what those are?

Sydney Chifetz [00:10:57]: Yeah. So a couple that come to mind and particularly pertaining to this conversation, autonomy. So when working with college students, we recognize that these are adults that can and should be making their own decisions, and it's not it is our responsibility to work with them, you know, using some of the principles in motivational interviewing and and public health, right, to understand what are what are these person's desires as we've been talking about? Like, what are the reasons why they're choosing to consume substances at at whatever rate that they are. So really respecting a person's autonomy. Education, there are some students that we work with that don't know some of the basics of particular substances, especially as we've noted, like, there seems to be every couple years or a couple months a new substance in the field, that students are intentionally or unintentionally having relationships with. So education around what is this doing, and then I think working with students to discern what would they like their relationship with that substance to be and and how can they reduce their risk of harm. But I think what I always come back to in the work that we do is that people have choices, and we can work to empower them to make more informed choices. And then if they're going to make a certain choice, the ways that they can reduce their risk of harm.

Sydney Chifetz [00:12:05]: I don't know how much you want me to go into like, this is the casual part, like basic public health principles, basic harm reduction principles. I don't know.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:12]: I think anything that you can share that might be helpful for our audience to narrow their foci into. I know that a lot of our listeners are also graduate students. They love learning theory. We also have, listeners who are teaching in higher ed master's programs, and also a number of professionals who maybe don't go into this work on a day to day basis.

Sydney Chifetz [00:12:30]: So one of the concepts which we use a lot in our work and particularly health promotion professionals are using all the time within a motivational interviewing framework is the idea of stages of change. And so I don't know how prevalent that was as part of the conversation twenty years ago of it's not as easy as, a, just saying no or, b, making a change. Right? Most of us are ambivalent about many aspects of our experience, particularly as it pertains to our health. So working with people to recognize that change can happen, change takes time, and, also, it's about many aspects of our life that sometimes need to change in order for our relationship with alcohol and other drugs to, be changed. So that's one of the things. Dylan, I'm gonna pass it to you.

Dylan Dunn [00:13:13]: The most fun part, I think, about this work as a student affairs professional is that this work is really just student student development theory over and over and over and over again. I think sometimes student affairs professionals will get kind of in our own way thinking that our subject matter expertise is not the specifics of substance use, and therefore, we must defer. I think important deferring is important when it's useful, but so much of our work is empowering students and empowering the development of students as they're in their stage of emerging adulthood, trying to figure out where they are in this world, what rules they wanna follow, what their rules for themselves are. And if we the moment we go into that with students, they're shocked. Like, oh, I thought that was the substance use is exempt from that conversation, I thought. And if we're saying no, like, sub your relationship to substances can be rooted in dignity and can be rooted in empowerment and education and you figuring out what your own approach is gonna be for the rest of your life, suddenly it's so much easier. It's when we wanna be the police in the conversation, which I understand there's reason for that on college campuses. There's plenty of reasons why, but we can both keep campuses safe and keep campuses compliant while also empowering students through the basics of how we know we need to develop students even if that includes substances.

Dylan Dunn [00:14:22]: And we can talk in at length about the role of stigma and all of that and the role of judgment, but I find this work if you let it be simple, it can be simple. And it can be really fun, but we often are afraid to do that, I think.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:32]: I wanna revisit something you mentioned, Sydney, about motivational interviewing being really hot at the moment as a as a style of working with students in the harm reduction conversation. Such an important tool. So if you're listening and you've never heard of motivational interviewing, it's actually a a style of conversation. A lot of people think of motivational interviewing as a counseling technique, but it's not really. It's a way of having a conversation with someone that allows them to elucidate their own thoughts and feelings about a a change that they're thinking about making in their life. There's a good book out there called Motivational Engineering for College Students, something like that. I'll have to go find the type the exact title, but it's a good way to start. And I know when we were using that on the team that I was working with, actually in Colorado as well, we were able to see almost like a a 33% drop in recidivism for students that were having conversations about their alcohol use through the motivational interviewing context when in comparison to students who went through a traditional conduct process.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:25]: So there's so much empowerment available as long as you have the right training and tools to have the conversation. So it's an exciting time. But Dylan, I also wanted to go back to something that you had mentioned around stigma. So let's talk a little bit about stigma in substance use and abuse and what we're seeing with the collegiate environment.

Dylan Dunn [00:15:41]: It's a big question. I think the hard part for our work and for the anybody doing substance use work on campus is we don't get to exempt ourselves from stigma that is off campus because all of our students are bringing with them everything that they've experienced throughout their life and up until this point and then what they expect to see once they leave. And then then there's also this unique stigma that exists exists on campus in in different senses. But in general, I think the bottom line of it all is that when we talk about substances, there tends to be this us versus them conversation that quickly emerges because people are afraid of being in us in this con or they're afraid of being in them in this conversation is a better way to say it. Them being people who use drugs. And so then the way we either bifurcate that or start to outline that depends on the culture of the university. And so there are some campuses where an us is someone who uses alcohol. People on our campus, people may say, our students drink, but they don't do those other things.

Dylan Dunn [00:16:32]: And then when we say we don't do those other things, the kind of mythologies we'll create about why that is or what those other things must be like often are rooted in almost zero reality. They're kind of just like these assumptions that we make about, oh, people use drugs are this way or that way. And, again, we can go through lists and lists of what those stigmatizing beliefs look like, but we spent a lot of time focusing on language when it comes to stigma, but we've also now been breaching a lot of conversations around just underlying beliefs that get us to this defensiveness around substance use out of judgment, not even really about safety, but about judgment and lack of understanding.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:06]: That stigma space is is so interesting because we also are balancing compliance. Right? And so the reality of the conversations that we need to be having on our campuses are what is the prevalence of usage related to some of these substances? How are these substance use situations affecting students' ability to show up every day and do what they need to do to learn in their academic space? How is that impacting their well-being overall? And then on the other side, we have the tension of the Direct Free Schools and Communities Act and the Controlled Substances Act pushing against effectively what is zero tolerance. And so our campus policies always have to be zero tolerance to receive that federal funding. But the way that we respond to those doesn't necessarily have to be that dichotomous. It can be more nuanced. So I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about the universities that you're seeing do this work the best or at least, most progressively are aligning with both the demands of what we need to do for compliance alongside what we actually need to do to care for the humanity for our students. And you don't necessarily need to name a university, but wondering what those practices look like in terms of how is this support work coming out and really looking effective.

Sydney Chifetz [00:18:09]: Yeah. So I think a big piece of it is helping universities understand what aspects of the work that they do and the approach that they take is up to them and the work that they do with students and how much of that has guidelines outlined in the Drug Free Schools and Communities Act. So a lot of what we see, particularly around conference season, right, is there's always a lot of sessions that talk about what is required of you and what approach can you take as it pertains to, harm reduction, for example, under the Drug Free Schools and Communities Act. And a piece of that, right, is so what is required of us? We are required to be drug free. We are required to provide this, this, and this. And what do we have control over? Right? So what are we communicating? What is that style? What do our conduct meetings look like? Right? Are we providing a a space where students can really talk through their experience? And we have all probably been there. Those of us that have done basics in k six or motivational interviewing meetings. Right? Like, when a student comes in and they grasp for the first time that you are there to support them and you are there to hear them out and work with them to figure out what a solution is gonna be to where the university feels comfortable.

Sydney Chifetz [00:19:14]: I feel like I did my job as a whatever, and the universe and the student has kind of tools that they can move forward with. So I think a lot of that is to what extent are we communicating, what is required, but then what extent are we choosing an approach that is on top of that? The word that comes to mind is rigid. Right? Like, can we see the humanity in some of these? Certainly, the Drug Free Schools and Communities Act is meant to protect students, and it is meant to create spaces of learning. And how can we also see the human experience and in what students are experiencing and the approach that we take to that often in whether that's conduct meetings or basics meetings, it can be a lot less rigid. It can be a lot more of, let me hear how this is going for you. And nobody wants to be thrown rules at. But when students understand where is that coming from, it's often that students don't understand the Drug Free Schools and Community Act because we haven't done a good job of outlining to them where is this coming from and why is this important. And then what is my role as a university staff member in not only enforcing this, but also making sure that students feel heard and they have the resources they need, etcetera.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:28]: You've mentioned the board basics a couple of times, so I just wanna clarify what that is for our audience. It stands for brief alcohol screening intervention for college students, and it's a a style of sitting with a student for harm reduction with relationship with alcohol, usually done with visual feedback, such that the student can have a personalized conversation about their own relationship with alcohol, and then the administrator can use that opportunity to use the motivational interviewing style to talk about any changes they wanna make in their relationship with alcohol. It's a really great way of being with students. The the training can be a little bit extensive, but you you pretty much only need to do it once and you pretty much get the hang of of what you're doing. But, Dylan, what did you wanna add?

Dylan Dunn [00:21:05]: The thing that we are often surprised about is the amount of folks who so, obviously, in a student affairs program, you're gonna learn about the drugs free schools and communities act. It's gonna be a part of your education. I mean, I assume, and I I hope so. But I would say we're at a fifty fifty point maybe. I don't have the data behind this, but it seems this way. Like, for example, the NASPA strategies conference that about half of the people doing alcohol and drug work on college campuses don't have a student affairs background. And that's a really cool tool for us to have in this field of the difference of backgrounds and education and all of that. But what it does sometimes when it comes to DFSCA, the Drug Free Schools and Communities Act, is we in our presentations a lot, will show the parts of the DFSCA, and a lot of folks in the audience have actually never read the DFSCA.

Dylan Dunn [00:21:44]: And so I encourage everyone who's listening to go and read the Drug Free Schools and Communities Act if you would like because we it is titled the Drug Free Schools and Communities Act, but the part and soul of it is that you can't break the law. And it's really that long and that that's as difficult as it is to understand, but it is not breaking the law to do principled legal harm reduction work or to have really meaningful, tactful, direct conversations with students about alcohol and other drugs. And but I think sometimes people will hear the Drug Free Schools and Communities Act, and they assume they're gonna be violating it by doing this work directly. And we had there was, someone from the Department of Education, of course, last year that came to NASPA and clarified for everybody that like, fentanyl testing strips, for example. Fentanyl testing strips require us to acknowledge that students may be using drugs, but that is protecting students. And so to there have been schools we've worked with who have said, well, fentanyl testing strips cannot fall off in the DFSCA, but that can't be true. If fentanyl testing strips are legal somewhere and it's also us keeping our students safe, the order of operations there of safety and lawfulness outweigh the stigma of, well, we don't want those students here as often with the underlying messages if we're talking about stigma here. And that's a really hard place.

Dylan Dunn [00:22:50]: We have to navigate that a lot is what I'll say. And often with that, yes, knowledge is power and clarity is power there and just being willing to have the hard conversation.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:57]: So while we're talking about fentanyl testing strips and you previously mentioned Narcan is what most people know it know it as, How are you seeing these two tools being utilized on college campuses effectively to protect students?

Dylan Dunn [00:23:08]: When I was at University of Denver in 2018, I think there were maybe 12 schools in the country who were utilizing naloxone or having naloxone as part of their programming or a tool that was available to students. That as of NASPA strategies this year, I think the data was shared that about half of schools in the across the country have Naloxone available to students. So it's a huge shift in seven years, but it also reflects the importance of the opioid crisis over the past over that time period. But the there are many schools who are doing it really well, and I think all of them that what they have in common is that they both train folks openly, and they train them often. They have naloxone available for distribution so that folks can grab it and take it with them throughout their daily lives, and they also have it available as permanently set on campus like an AED kit, for example, and if they have clarity around their policies. Good Samaritan policies, medical amnesty policies, things like that. As I mentioned earlier, we've worked with NASPA on this problem and this need specifically, and we've created a checklist alongside NASPA and the higher ed center at Ohio State. A checklist of 10 things that campuses should be at least attempting to accomplish in order to say that they are addressing opioid overdose response on their campus.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:10]: Can you tell us the brief version of what those 10 things are?

Dylan Dunn [00:24:12]: There's two halves of it. The first half is what I was just saying. Having naloxone available for an emergency response. The part about that that we focus on is it's not just, oh, we have naloxone in a drawer somewhere. It's that you have it available within five minutes of someone experiencing an overdose. I know on many campuses, a five minute response time is very, very quick. I've also been on campuses where a five minute response time would be seen as unacceptable. And so that's something maybe as a reminder to folks that if someone is experiencing an overdose, they have five minutes or less before this is not reversible.

Dylan Dunn [00:24:42]: And so that's why we use that five minute number. Having naloxone available for distribution for on and off campus emergencies, recurring trainings, having Good Samaritan responsible exemption policies for so that students know they should prioritize response over fearing getting in trouble. Everything below those first ones is very technical and policy and procedure focused, like having policies and procedures for response, for responding to community impacts, for internal tracking, publicly available overviews, so DFSCA stuff there, and then, again, continued tracking and then data sharing with important groups in their community. So it's not meant to be a if you don't have all 10 of these, you're not doing anything. It's more of here are the 10 goals we would set for you if you are intending to keep your students safe if this were to happen.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:23]: You mentioned Good Samaritan medical amnesty policies. I know that there has been a dialogue in higher ed for a while about whether those amnesty policies should include alcohol and other drugs. That has been kind of something that's been circling around, particularly related to the Drug Free Schools and Communities Act. Where are you seeing the best practice go?

Sydney Chifetz [00:25:41]: I think something that students were always hyper mindful of when I was directly on campuses is when universities take a different approach to what substances are involved, there's inherent judgment in that. Right? So certain universities that might have a higher fine for cannabis, say, than they have for alcohol or the number of brief motivational interventions is higher for one over another. So what does that do? Right? It increases stigma. It honestly makes students more cautious, not necessarily around how they're partaking in the substance, but how they're interacting with the university. Right? If we if students perceive that the university is more comfortable with them having a relationship with alcohol than them having relationship with cannabis, students are then just gonna gravitate towards one substance over another or get better at hiding use of one substance over another and also not then being forthcoming when it comes to having conversations with professionals on campus that want to have open dialogues with them to help them get to a spot that is more reduced risk of that use. Right? If students are pulled through messaging that they shouldn't be upfront about the substance that they're engaging in, then the health promotion professionals can't do their best work. So I think, right, there are different ways that certain substances impact the body, and there are certainly substances that have different impacts and different, health outcomes to be mindful of. But when we you know, we've seen this throughout time.

Sydney Chifetz [00:27:04]: Right? Illicit drug versus not illicit drug or hard drugs versus whatever. Right? So we are so conditioned to put substances into boxes, and I think a lot of that comes from the stigma of who uses certain substances and then what types of people, quote, unquote, use other sorts of substances. But if we want to take kind of a a holistic approach to it, it is that students are using substances for a certain outcome. And when we put a line in the sand, the consequences of this is going to be different than the consequences of this. What are we saying about substance use? And, ultimately, what are we teaching unconsciously often students to do when they're engaging in certain substances over other other substances.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:42]: That's such an important point and a hard conversation for university administrators to have because you have to have that conversation with yourself first about what are your own biases in this situation and how are those biases creeping into policy, administration of policy, as well as response. I do wanna get down to a little bit of nitty gritty detail as well and just ask, what are we seeing in terms of prevalence on college campuses these days around substance use related to alcohol and other drugs?

Sydney Chifetz [00:28:09]: Yeah. You know, it it really depends on the data and how what timeline we are looking at the data. Right? And so we saw alcohol kinda take a dip in the first periods of the pandemic, and it's kind of spikes back up. We also very much hear about this sober curious movement. Right? So a lot of Gen Z and Generation Alpha are questioning the relationship they want to have with alcohol. I know that the most recent university that I I served at, I engaged in a cannabis research initiative because I was seeing in a lot of my motivational interventions that students were using cannabis at a at a on a daily basis, and yet that was not being reflected in the data that we were seeing. And And I think we can talk for a long time about what sort of students are taking these hour long surveys that we're collecting data from, and are those the type of students that are engaging in daily cannabis practices. Right? But so I definitely think that something that this is not new.

Sydney Chifetz [00:29:01]: Right? But the use of alcohol twenty years ago, blacking out was an unintended consequence of alcohol use. And now in certain circles and in certain communities, we are hearing that blacking out is the goal. We can have long conversations about boards or blackout rage gallons or whatever that were a hot topic, particularly among higher ed administrators to be discussing a couple years ago. Right? But the ways that students are engaging in alcohol and what the outcomes that they would like to be look different now. And then there are also emerging pockets of students saying alcohol isn't serving it's not the substance that I want to be using, or I don't wanna be using substances. Right? So that's a really beautiful movement that has spiked up and students being really steadfast in their in their view of that. And I think in many of the universities that I've served at and the situationally, this is in the Pacific Northwest, but cannabis use. Like, cannabis is something that can use more easily on campus, particularly in certain pockets of the country culturally.

Sydney Chifetz [00:30:03]: Alcohol might look down upon, but cannabis is perceived as this way that we can be more creative and be more authentic. And and I'm not applying judgment to that at all, but I am saying that when we take this approach of comparing the ways that students used to use alcohol to what they might be using now, I, for one, have looked a lot at the cannabis rates and and talking to students about what is your experience, particularly post pandemic? Why are students using cannabis? What does this mean? Are they self medicating to an extent? Are they using it as a tool for connection? But I do think that's something that I have seen become much more normalized, not just this, I use cannabis on a Saturday night to hang out with my friends to, no, I I wake up and I use cannabis because it helps me do x, y, or z better, and I need it also in order to fall asleep. And then also, why not just go home in the middle of the day too to get a little bit of a serotonin spike? So that's something that I've been observing over time.

Dylan Dunn [00:30:58]: We see in the data that some of us may have never ever seen this coming until legalization was happening, but cannabis and alcohol are starting to culturally line up more as alcohol rates are beginning to fall, I think, most significantly for the first time in my lifetime. Alcohol is kind of the thing that never changed. We would just do our best to navigate it. I think we are seeing that change as of recently, but that change is being then replaced or influenced by cannabis. Students grew up seeing the outcomes of alcohol use, and they were not thrilled. But they have not seen that with cannabis, so why that would make more sense. The other thing that has to do with our work is most schools will see opioid use as declining. It was never more than two and a half, 3%, but it is still declining.

Dylan Dunn [00:31:37]: The challenge with that is we are seeing often cocaine use rates are increasing, and even, like, methamphetamine rates are either the same or increasing around the country. Why I bring that up is that we often hear administrators go point at the opioid rates declining and be really excited that that means overdose response can relax. The problem is fentanyl, most often the cause of overdose, is found in pills and powders. And so it's anytime we're having conversations around cocaine as a powder or any sort of pill, whether it's especially or and only if it's illicit as what we're talking about here, illicit pills. So counterfeit pills, press pills, those are likely to cause opioid overdose even if they're not intended to be used as opioids. That's a distinction that I know can be tricky for, many of us who don't do this work every day, but fentanyl is found throughout the drug supply. And so if pills, powders are being used, pills and or powders are being used, we still need to be thoughtful about opioid overdose response because that's where and when it happens.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:31]: Then that is using that that pill may not know that there's fentanyl present in that medication as well. So as we look at the whole picture here, most student affairs professionals don't interact with harm reduction on a day to day basis as part of their work, but we all work with the same students. So if I am a student affairs professional, what should I be looking for or thinking about as I interact with the student population that I'm serving, in order to equip myself to have either a difficult conversation or make a referral?

Dylan Dunn [00:33:01]: I love the question because I think the answer is a bit more maybe interesting than some folks are expecting. And because for me, the tools you need are curiosity and care. The I it's that often then offsets this look for students whose eyes look a certain way or who are acting a certain way. In my experience, both on and off campus, students people use substances for reasons. And those reasons, we can dig into those and understand those, and especially college students are using for very simple reasons either to belong or to cope in some way. And so if you understand that a student is going through something difficult, there's never a wrong time to ask, how are you dealing with that? The challenge is do they perceive you as someone who would be nonjudgmental? And so folks on campus who are doing alcohol and other drug work well often are seen as the cool staff or the, like, the folks on campus that students can really trust as long as the university has set them up to be that way. Some campuses require, quote, unquote, the cool staff to hide in corners because they don't want them to be known because then that would maybe send a a message that that is okay to participate in substance using behaviors rather than it's okay to have people on our staff who are equipped and well skilled in helping students navigate the challenges of life. There's, like, those kind of stigma based and culturally based reframes that I think are really important.

Dylan Dunn [00:34:11]: But I know Sydney used to do far more direct services work on campus than I was doing since I was doing more, again, housing and things like that.

Sydney Chifetz [00:34:17]: I think to your point, Dylan, first and foremost is listening to your students. And I think sometimes the mistake that offices of health promotion make is the students that we're listening to aren't the students that have the experiences that we can best learn from. So I think listening to students, listening to students that come in through the conduct process, listening to our student interns. And we want the student interns that know the vibe on campus. Right? So that we can have an understanding of what's truly happening and also those cultural shifts, the trend shifts as are happening. We don't wanna be, this has been happening on our campus for a year, and we weren't listening to understand it as it started to emerge. So I think listening to students. Second is taking a reality based approach to the work that we do.

Sydney Chifetz [00:35:02]: And I think most of us are doing this now. Right? But we can pretend like something isn't happening, or we can apply judgment to something and and not talk about it upfront, or we can recognize that there are some humans that are going to partake in certain substances and certain behaviors. And what approach should we take to ensure that these folks are reducing their risk of harm if they're choosing to engage in a certain behavior, have the education that they need so that they can make informed decisions, have the resources that they do decide, you know, this isn't working for me anymore, or I'm ready to make a change that might be more sustainable. Right? So using reality based education, reality based approaches to how we're doing the work now. And then I think as it pertains to directly working with students, just not dancing around it. Right? It's okay to point out to students, hey, friend. Here's what I've noticed. Or, like, hey, do you mind if I'm real with you for a second? And I think if we could take judgment out of that conversation, but really point out to folks like, hey, here's what I've noticed.

Sydney Chifetz [00:36:04]: I'm just checking in. Is everything okay? Or, hey, You used to, I don't know, come to my office once a week, and now I I only see you every couple months. Is everything okay? Or, you know, I think it's also okay too when we see students what is an appropriate way of pointing out to a student, like, kinda takes one to know one. When a student would show up to my office and have, like, they had clearly been partaking in a substance that day, how can I without judgment, but also point out, like, hey? And not calling a student out, but, like, making there are ways that you can point something out without making it a very serious, like, hey. I noticed that you're showing up to this k six, so basics but applied to cannabis. I know that you're showing up to this k six conversation under the influence of cannabis. No. But, hey.

Sydney Chifetz [00:36:47]: I'm noticing that some of the students show up to my office under the influence of cannabis. Why do you think that is? Right? So you can kinda pull students into the conversation, but also make students aware that you are not unaware of what's happening. But also, I would so much rather be the type of person on campus that has the approach of, like, whatever's going on, whatever state you're in or or wherever you're at, come on by my office, and we'll figure it out together, especially if you don't know where to turn rather than let me stay away at this time because I'm fear of judgment, fear of consequences, whatever.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:20]: Any other thoughts for student affairs professionals on working through any challenges that they might be having on their campus related to substance overdose or learning about health promotion practices themselves or anything else in this topic that you think that might be interesting or valuable?

Dylan Dunn [00:37:35]: Not to I mean, yes, to plug ourselves. I think Sydney and I both in our campuses team, we're always available. Like, our jobs at the end of the day, if we had do nothing else, is to make sure that student affairs professionals and folks on campus don't feel like they're doing this work alone. And so if someone is sitting in their office, they're the only person in their health promotion office who's doing this work, and they're just not sure where to turn, often, yes, Google can be helpful. But often, you're gonna find less information less helpful information just by googling something than you would by asking a peer and then engaging in a dialogue with them. And both Sydney and I are available. Our calendars are available to folks. We'll share our website at the end.

Dylan Dunn [00:38:09]: But, yeah, we're here to make sure that folks feel like they can have the real conversation with peers in the field first as opposed to using a student as the first time you've had this conversation well. Or if you're not sure if your supervisor is the best person to have this conversation with, I understand. I know what that's like. And so if we wanna have conversations together first, we're available for that. We're more than glad to do it. And just I was thinking as Sydney was speaking of we are very intentional and purposeful in student affairs about being reflective practitioners. And the best way to do that often is to get out of our own heads. And we have some tools to use at SAFE to help people do that, but just look for good podcasts or books.

Dylan Dunn [00:38:44]: We can recommend them maybe in the description or something later. But there are so many great opportunities to engage with the experience of people who do use drugs or have used drugs or in recovery or not. And understanding those perspectives colors our experience as professionals so much more vibrantly than just trying to stop something. I say a lot, you can't do it, don't. And so rather than being the person who's trying to help people to stop doing something, what if I have another option for them? What if I have a more deep conversation with them? Then would you please stop? You're causing problems. But I know that takes effort, and it's hard to, do when all of us are often overworked and underpaid, truthfully. And so I know how that feels, but a lot of a lot there. But, Sydney, you may have some, extra stuff too.

Sydney Chifetz [00:39:23]: No. Dylan, I think to your point, like, obviously, we are always here and eager to have conversations with folks and help them understand how does this relate to what others in the country might be seeing. I also think that something that excites me the most is where the ways that we get to engage with students. Some of the students that we have as part of our fellowship now are some of the brightest people that I get to have conversations with right now, and they are very much leading the charge. So I think, like, it when we're, as Dylan said, overworked and underpaid on campus, we tend to kind of put our head down and go at it alone without recognizing that there are students on our campus that are very passionate. They want to help, but they need to be engaged in a way that's gonna work for them. Right? So we're not tokenizing their experience, but we are walking alongside them as we're figuring this out. Dylan's gonna laugh at this, but I am a big proponent of focus groups on campus.

Sydney Chifetz [00:40:13]: Right? I think we get so much data from really wonderful surveys, and how often are those occurring, how long do they take students to take, and therefore, who is taking them sorts of thing. And we could just get better at talking to our students. Some of the best, data, quote, unquote, that I had at my previous institution was, hey. I'll give you a $15 DoorDash gift card, and I recognize that that takes resources that some universities might have or not have. But I'll give you $15 at DoorDash. If you come and talk to me for an hour, I'm gonna ask you four questions. I'm not gonna write down your contact information unless you wanna be involved with me, but I just wanna hear authentically your thoughts on this. Because I think students, so often we are conditioned to talk to our supervisor.

Sydney Chifetz [00:40:55]: We're conditioned to talk to one of the listening sessions that multiple institutions are having. And that is great for what is happening kind of upper level or at the national level. But so often, it's what is the culture of our campus? What is the culture of this particular community? What have our students chosen to do about it? How normalized is x, y, or z? So bringing the right students in that want to be part of the solution with us and asking them their authentic, hey. What's really going on? And if I wanna be the best in service to you all as a health promotion professional as possible, what approach do I need to take? Recognizing, right, that there are certain aspects of my role, and as we talked about with the Drugs Free Skills and Communities Act, that I can or cannot do. But what am I missing here, or what is impacting you the most, or what is your why? Our students aren't just gravitating towards substances for no reason. There is a why. And can we get deeper as to of what are other ways that we can bring in other campus professionals to ensure that their mental health needs are being met on campus and they're not having to wait a month for an appointment, or disability access is well staffed and well resourced, and they all have safe and stable places to live and x, y, and z. Right? So working with students to take a much more holistic approach.

Dylan Dunn [00:42:07]: It's indeed said that I would laugh at the focus groups thing. I wanna point out why that is for folks because I don't know a single person who got into student affairs because they didn't wanna hear what students had to say or they didn't find that valuable when they were a student to be heard and seen by a professional. Many of us had changed their lives, had changed the entire trajectory of our lives to be seen and heard by someone who we perceive to be there for us on a college campus. And yet when we work with professionals, I understand that focus groups take time and they take effort, but the amount of folks that we get in these deep conversations with pause and go, have you actually talked to students about this? And the answer is most often no. We're I think and that comes often, at least in the way I perceive it as as professionals, we're almost afraid to be seen as naive or afraid to be seen as wrong. But when you're working with students, sometimes that's the best thing you can do is say, help me understand this. I am just a person who hasn't been in college for ten, fifteen, twenty years. I wanna understand your experience.

Dylan Dunn [00:42:56]: I want you to be the expert in this room right now. But for some reason, a lot of us as we do this work and it gets buried by the bureaucracy of it and the daily work of it, we lose touch with the student experience. And I think that's something that, again, we laugh about because it's the reason so much of it so many of us do this work, but it's sometimes the first thing that gets thrown to the wayside.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:14]: We're gonna transition now to talking about our theme questions for the season. Again, we're talking about the past, present, and future of student affairs. And, because you're adjacent, we'll shift it just a little bit. But what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think should be carried forward or alternatively let go of? And you could focus this more on health promotion if that's more useful.

Sydney Chifetz [00:43:34]: I think the first thing that comes to mind, and I have convinced myself that this no longer happens, and then you talk to folks that this might still be a part of their practice. So it's kind of this idea of, like, if we can just bestow knowledge onto students, they will do different. Right? Or that we are the keepers of good resources or we are the keepers of good behaviors and that we can then teach students how to do these things. These are the principles of what I think most health promotion practitioners are using nowadays, but it doesn't come from me. It doesn't come from me, the university staff member. It comes from the student, and it is just my job to help them understand that and utilize it in an appropriate way. But it's obviously not just saying no, that we're gonna get ourselves out of this overdose crisis or get ourselves out of this place that we're at where students would rather engage in life under the influence of something or or feel the need to engage in life under the influence of something. And often, it's not just that students don't know, and it's not that we need to be the ones to enlighten students to this.

Sydney Chifetz [00:44:34]: It's that the students already have what they need within them, and it's our job to help them to kinda pull that pull that out a little bit. What do you you have the choice here. You are an adult, and I know it feels right now as an 18, 19, 20 year old, like, everyone is telling you what to do and what box you need to fit in. But outside of the four years or however long you're in an institution of higher education, you have autonomy and you get to live your life the way you want to. And so if we can start instilling those practices and getting students aware that they have choice, they have autonomy, and it is also a responsibility to how do we care for ourselves, how do we care for our community. And and so I think if we can as we're working with students and institutions of learning, how can we get them to already start thinking about this rather than we need to protect our students while they're here? It's like, no. We can educate students on, yes, what is the BAC of certain substances. Right? And that is important, but it's also empowering students to know that they are in the driver's seat of their experience, and we are all here to help and guide them when it makes sense for us to do so while they're on campus.

Dylan Dunn [00:45:39]: The phrase en loco parentis that a lot of us learn and navigate all day long on, college campuses of we're here to serve in place of the parent. That, I think, is actually a really interesting history and also something that needs to change. Because what we have to if we're that is our job legally is to be in place of the parent. We have to also understand what parenting looks like right now in The United States and what our students are bringing in with them or not bringing with them in terms of parental relationships or the conversation students have or have not had about substances coming into campuses. And so if we are when we hear the word parent, what do we think of? I could think of my experience of we don't talk about that here or we ignore the hard stuff. But what I would like that to mean is we talk about the hard things and we really prepare ourselves for a sustainable life and that beautiful relationship that it can be. And so I that has always been a good both reframe and accountability piece for me is what do I want my job as in place of the parent to mean and be direct about that with yourself and be reflective about it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:34]: Looking at the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs slash health promotion?

Dylan Dunn [00:46:40]: And so I work mostly with our professionals at the at the at the moment, professionals that reach out to us. There's a lot of care, I will say. And there has always been care in the field, but there maybe the older I get or the more I work with just professionals, the more I am gaining an appreciation for how much staff care and how much of an opportunity that is. And I so I know, especially in today's age of threats to higher education and budgeting and all of that, how hard how easy it can be to be, like, nihilistic and cynical about all of this. But we we need to continue to do is just care and care for each other also as professionals and reach out and connect and not burnout is gonna be the enemy of the next rev of higher education. It already has been. There's a reason that we always speak joke or whether the data still shows us or not that the average student affairs professional stays for five years. I would like to see us really continue to dig into that because I think the care and the compassion has always been there, but I see it.

Dylan Dunn [00:47:29]: It feels different now. It feels more realistic as opposed to just sunshine and rainbows. It feels like it feels more like what I would like to see love look like within four students.

Sydney Chifetz [00:47:38]: I think for me, it's realness. So I don't know if this is coming post pandemic or just the place that we're all at now. But I think from what I've seen, folks are much more willing and comfortable having the tough conversations. So not only with folks in their office, not only with students, but also with administrators of this is what's actually happening. And we see this a lot, right, because of the work that we do with overdose. You can't sugarcoat the overdose prices. You have to be real in how we're talking about it because we need people to take us seriously. Right? And so I think seeing that happen and being much more real with the circumstances that we're in.

Sydney Chifetz [00:48:14]: But I think with that too is authenticity. So folks just being more authentic about what their experience is, whether that's folks in recovery being more authentic with that and and sharing their experience more broadly. And then I think to Dylan's point is that idea of community. I know that belonging is the biggest buzzword in 2024, '20 '20 '5, whatever, with student affairs. But I think we understand the importance of community, not only for student affairs professionals. Right? Because it can feel like we are in the trenches together, but also for students because they're having a much more similar experience than I think sometimes they recognize. But if nobody's talking about the fact that many students are feeling the same way, and obviously, all of our lived experiences is different, but it's when they start to talk about their experiences, they recognize they have more in common than they don't have in common. So I think the authenticity that is being increasingly brought into these conversations, the willingness to say the hard but real thing, and then also the community that is not only evident of staff members on campus and doing this work together, but also that we are kind of upholding within the student community, recognizing that they can and should be there for each other and and help each other out and, you know, that this experience is not we can convince ourselves that we are going through this experience alone when in reality, most college students are having similar thoughts or similar challenges.

Sydney Chifetz [00:49:36]: Right? Recognizing that they happen in very different ways. But it's when we talk about them and we can see that we are not different, we are not isolated, that this is sometimes a very normal part of the human experience that we just need a way and words to be able to talk about it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:50]: And finally, looking towards the future, in an ideal world, what does the field need to be doing to thrive towards the future?

Sydney Chifetz [00:49:55]: Okay. Yeah. Two things come to mind for me. First thing is a judgment free zone, and I know that we say we do that well sometimes. And I wanna acknowledge that to be human, it's to have judgmental thoughts, but we have control over the way that we let those thoughts impact our actions and and what it is that we choose to say out loud. So I think if we can recognize if we can see the humanity in this situation, the best thing I ever did for working with students is kind of settle into, like, if I can see the humanness in the student that I am working with, I can then fully understand why they are choosing to make the decisions they are choosing to. So I think if we can slip into compassion and putting ourselves in students' shoes over judgment, a, And then, b, in a perfect world, resources. So I think there is so much resource scarcity happening on campuses, either because that's a problem for the campus as a whole or the way that it's being distributed.

Sydney Chifetz [00:50:53]: And I think that students are very attuned to that as well. And I know that I am preaching to the choir because most student affairs professionals are hyper aware of this. But I worked in an institution where we had a wonderful and very successful basketball team, and yet students were waiting three weeks, four weeks for a counseling appointment. And students were very aware of that. Staff was very aware of that. And I recognize that there is no button that I can push to fix that. But I do think that in an ideal world, the resources are more equitable, and they're also provided to along with that line of thinking and equity, what do our students need now, and who needs that first? And how are we gonna take a public health and equity minded approach to getting our students what they need, when they need it, and how they need it?

Dylan Dunn [00:51:38]: I think there's two parts of, like, a pragmatic answer to this for me, and one is that campuses realize we're we've never been doing this alone. We've only ever chosen to do it alone with, like, town and gown relationships, for example. If you are a land grant school and you don't see yourself working with the community around you, that's a problem. So I think, like, as we do this work, I don't mean to just, like, throw shade there, but we often are working with big state entities or big community entities who are just waiting to give universities resources and support, but they felt shut out for a long time. I felt like they've been not trusted or the university sees themselves as separate from the community around them. And I both see it as an admission of higher education and student affairs to be really beautiful stewards of the community campus relationship because our students are impacting the community. The community is impacting us. Just because we can pretend that's not a thing doesn't mean that we should, even though it's hard.

Dylan Dunn [00:52:25]: And that requires a lot of hard conversations and a lot of hard collaborations. But some of the most beautiful parts of my work have been bridging those gaps in a really cool way that I would like to see the field utilized more often because there are some really brilliant people across the street from your campus that you don't know yet. And it'd be really great if you did.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:42]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:52:48]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there are a ton of things happening in NASPA. Well, it was a great annual conference, overwhelming in some ways, but always exciting to be able to see all of our student affairs friends at the conference. And I know that I personally left very inspired and motivated to go back to my campus to put things into action and to look at what we are doing and what we can do to be able to impact our students in so many different ways. That being said, there's still a ton of things that are coming up even after the conference. First and foremost, there is a webinar coming up on April 29 from the policy division of NASPA entitled Policy Insights for Higher Education in the First one hundred Days. At this webinar, you can join public policy leaders for a discussion centered on federal policy updates, implications for student affairs professionals, and reflections on how to move forward in the current policy environment. Panelists will share perspectives on how student affairs professionals can stay up to date on federal and state policy changes and discuss ways they can advocate for both their institution and the field more broadly.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:53:57]: This will be an important webinar to be able to stay in the know about all of the changing dynamics that are surrounding our campuses today and how those will impact our students. So I highly encourage you to sign up to be able to get even more information about this. Go to learning.NASPA.org to register today. The twenty twenty five NASPA virtual conference is coming up April, and this is an amazing opportunity for you to be able to delve into professional development that is professional development that will be at your fingertips and available to anyone on your campus. With over 70 sessions spread across three dynamic days, whether you're looking to enhance, whether you're looking to enhance your professional skills, discover innovative strategies, or connect with peers, these sessions are designed to inspire and empower you. Also, with every session being recorded, you can catch up on anything that you miss and continue your professional development throughout the year. All of the recordings are available for three hundred and sixty five days. So your registration includes full access to both live and on demand content.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:55:05]: Even if you attended the NASPA annual conference, the virtual conference will have additional rate professional development that will allow for you and other colleagues to be able to professional development that will allow for you and other colleagues to be able to learn throughout the year. I highly encourage you to check this conference out for yourself at learning.NASPA.org. Another professional development event that is coming up is the nineteenth annual Manasa and NASPA conference. That's happening April coming up is the nineteenth annual Manassa NASPA conference that's happening April 27 through April 30 in Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates. The Manassa NASPA conference provides student affairs practitioners with the knowledge and skills to effectively address and support college students. At this conference, the Manassa area, which is the Middle East, North Africa, and South, and NYU Abu Dhabi, invites you to the nineteenth annual Manassa NASPA conference that's going to be held that's going to be held in The United Arab Emirates on Sunday, April 27 through Wednesday, April 30. This three day conference is an opportunity to connect with colleagues regionally and abroad, and its theme is Beyond Borders, Exploring Global and Local Perspectives on Student Experience. It is not too late to register for this conference to attend and be able to learn from your global colleagues and be able to learn and grow with them at this amazing learning opportunity.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:56:22]: You can find out more on the NASPA website. Every spring, it's a great time to be able to go into your NASPA profile and make sure that your profile is up to date. It is important to make sure that as you are thinking about your own professional development, you're also updating your profile to allow for you to be able to stay in the know of what's happening in the association, but also to allow for you to be able to get involved in a way that makes sense for you. Updating your profile is very easy. By just going to NASPA.org and clicking on my NASPA, you can log in and then you can first edit your profile. By editing your profile, you can make sure that all of your information is accurate. You can also then look at my NASPA engagement under my profile and look at what divisions and groups, journals, and knowledge communities that you want to stay connected with. Just like just like your role at your institution may change over time, your interests in the field may change over time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:57:27]: So I always encourage people to go back in and make sure that what is here is up to date. Once you have added things in, click save to make sure that you are getting the information that you want, and you will start to hear from knowledge communities, groups, etcetera, about ways to get involved. There are definite other ways to be able to step up that volunteering. If you want to be able to do that, you can go to volunteer central on the NASPA website to be able to raise your hand to be able to raise your hand and get even more information about ways in which you can volunteer your time to be able to impact the association and the profession. I highly encourage you to take some time to be able to look at that today and try and find a new way, be able to get engaged on a new level. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:58:45]: And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit. Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:59:40]: Chris, thank you so much for keeping us informed on what's going on in and around NASPA. And we are now back with our lightning round. I've got seven questions for you both to answer in ninety seconds. Ready to go?

Sydney Chifetz [00:59:52]: Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:59:53]: Okay. Question one. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Sydney Chifetz [00:59:58]: Oh my goodness. Selfishly, I think, like, some Grateful Dead, maybe? I don't know. Some good friend of the devil? Come on. Everyone would like that.

Dylan Dunn [01:00:06]: This is so bad. The first thing that came to mind, which I have not heard this song in a decade, is Survivor by Destiny Strong.

Dr. Jill Creighton [01:00:11]: Number two, when you were five years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Sydney Chifetz [01:00:14]: An artist. I was creative.

Dylan Dunn [01:00:16]: Yep. A comic book artist for me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [01:00:18]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Sydney Chifetz [01:00:21]: You know, probably a epidemiology professor I had in grad school. The way that he empowered us as as people doing the work and taught us about diseases, but also apply that to the world, doctor Bethel was a really cool professor.

Dylan Dunn [01:00:33]: Mine is actually outside of this field of student affairs, which is MJ Jorgensen, who is a director of statewide addiction work here in Colorado.

Dr. Jill Creighton [01:00:39]: Number four, your essential higher education read.

Sydney Chifetz [01:00:42]: Yeah. So actually, Jill, it's the book that you were referencing earlier, which is Basics Alcohol Program, the brief alcohol screening and intervention for college students. That book tells you everything you need to know about how to host those meetings, but also what are the fundamentals of motivational interviewing. And I think applied to the work, it not only teaches you how to have basics meetings, but also how to treat students, how to treat humans sort of thing.

Dr. Jill Creighton [01:01:02]: And

Dylan Dunn [01:01:02]: mine is The Invisible Leader by Zach Mercurio.

Dr. Jill Creighton [01:01:05]: Number five, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Sydney Chifetz [01:01:07]: I am late to this, but I just started watching Severance, and it's been pretty good. Spooky, but good.

Dylan Dunn [01:01:13]: I'm rewatching Breaking Bad right now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [01:01:14]: Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Sydney Chifetz [01:01:18]: Definitely Science Versus. It's really cool. It's all about science. Give it a look see because it's awesome, but Science Versus.

Dylan Dunn [01:01:25]: Armchair expert because I'm one of those people, I guess.

Dr. Jill Creighton [01:01:27]: And finally, number seven. Any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Sydney Chifetz [01:01:31]: I think I had a really great supervisor at my previous role, Jenna Parisi. She was really cool and and really passionate about doing basics work and really empowered me to kind of step into the role of running the programs exactly how I wanted to run them. So I'll shout out Jenna. Jody

Dylan Dunn [01:01:43]: Donovan was a mentor of mine at Colorado State University. She's still there, and she's still kicking butt and taking names and doing great things. But she inspired me a lot, in the student affairs program there.

Dr. Jill Creighton [01:01:52]: Been a wonderful conversation with you both today. I know I learned a lot from you. And if any of our listeners would like to connect with you or the Safe Project after this episode airs, how can they find you?

Dylan Dunn [01:02:00]: Our website is, www.safeproject.us, and we're on the campus' page. So feel free to reach out via that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [01:02:06]: Thank you both so much for sharing your voices with us today.

Sydney Chifetz [01:02:09]: Thanks, Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [01:02:11]: Thank you. This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners, and we continue to be grateful that you spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at essayvoices@NASPA.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show, and please leave us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really helps other student affairs professionals find our show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [01:02:51]: This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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This week we will be taking a break while Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Christopher Lewis will be attending the NASPA Conference. They look forward to seeing you at the conference and will be back after the conference!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:51]: Thanks so much, and we'll see you again real soon. This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners, and we continue to be grateful that you spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at essayvoices@nasa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show, and please leave us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really helps other student affairs professionals find our show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:34]: This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

View Details

In today's rapidly evolving educational landscape, the intersection of technology and student affairs is more significant than ever. In a recent discussion on the SA Voices from the Field podcast, guests James Quisenberry and David Chao, both seasoned professionals in student affairs technology, shared insights into their work at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign and the University of Pittsburgh. They highlighted the essential role of technology in enhancing student experiences and the ongoing efforts to integrate innovative solutions within student affairs.

The Journey into Student Affairs Technology

Both Quisenberry and Chao entered the realm of student affairs through unique pathways. Quisenberry transitioned from the private sector back into higher education, finding his niche in IT leadership for housing divisions. Similarly, Chao moved from the business world to higher education, recognizing the impact student affairs professionals had on his own college experience. Their experiences underscore the diverse backgrounds that contribute to the field, bringing fresh perspectives that help bridge the gap between technology and student affairs.

The Role of Technology in Student Affairs

In their conversation, Quisenberry and Chao emphasized the importance of technology as a tool to support student affairs work. They discussed the varying organizational models of IT within universities, whether centralized or more distributed, and how each affects the implementation of tech solutions. A critical point raised was the necessity of creating a collaborative environment where student affairs professionals and IT teams work together to design technology that meets the holistic needs of students. This approach ensures that tech solutions are user-centric and support the diverse aspects of student life.

Inclusion and the Future of Technology in Higher Education

A key theme that emerged was the role of technology in fostering inclusion. Technology, if leveraged correctly, serves as a great equalizer by providing access to resources and support for all students. Quisenberry and Chao highlighted ongoing efforts to develop competency standards for technology in student affairs, working towards frameworks that guide the ethical and effective use of data and digital tools. They stressed the importance of preparing for future challenges by collaborating across disciplines, ensuring that technology enhances, rather than hinders, the student experience.

Conclusion

As higher education continues to evolve, the integration of technology into student affairs will be crucial for addressing the needs of new generations of students. Leaders like Quisenberry and Chao are paving the way for a future where technological advancements not only support but elevate the student experience, ensuring that universities remain places of growth, inclusion, and innovation.

Questions We Are Asking At the Conference

Theme 1: Well-being and Healthy Excellence in Student Affairs

How can student affairs professionals model healthy excellence in their own lives and institutional cultures while supporting students’ well-being?

Theme 2: Changing the Student Affairs Profession How can we better leverage technology to meet the evolving needs of students and higher education institutions?

Theme 3: Sustaining and Celebrating the Student Affairs Profession Can you share a moment or experience in student affairs that you feel embodies the spirit of this profession?

If you would like to share your voice and we cannot record it at the conference, you can send an audio recording to savoices@naspa.org by March 28, 2025.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:50]: His mission is with fifteen years of knowledge, experience, and engagement in student affairs, he believes that he can help bridge the gap between tech and student affairs pros so that together we can enhance the student experience and facilitate their growth in an open and collaborative environment. Navigating the complexities of tech and student affairs requires a holistic approach to the technology itself, how it's utilized in practice, and understanding the data and outcomes. Higher ed is being challenged to adapt and evolve, and often intimidating pace of changes requires greater innovation than ever before. James Quisenberry is currently the executive director for student affairs tech and chief information officer for student affairs at the University of Illinois Urbana Champaign. In his previous role on campus, he served as associate director for the university housing department in tech services. Before joining the Urbana campus, he worked in the private sector with online learning systems focusing on curriculum and student information systems products in k 12 with Pearson Education, NCS, and Nova Net Learning. Mister Quisenberry holds both a BA and MS degree in computer science, both of which he received from Southern Illinois University at Carbondale. He's an active professional in organizations including NASPA, EDUCAUSE, and Akuho Ai.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:56]: He's currently serving as a member of the NASPA Tech KC representing Region 4 East. Mister Quisenberry is also a founding facilitator for the Illinois IT leadership Workshop where he served for over fifteen years to graduate over 375 emerging leaders from all three University of Illinois campuses and the University of Illinois system. He has over thirty five years of experience using technology to support education and focuses on building strong teams in all areas of technology support and invest strongly in leadership and development for all staff so they can lead from where they are. David and James, welcome to SA Voices.

James Quisenberry [00:02:28]: Hey, Jill.

David Chao [00:02:29]: Thank you for having us.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:30]: And we are featuring you today as the current knowledge community co chairs for the NASA technology KC. We love to have our KC chairs on to tell us what's going on in your focus area of student affairs. So I'd love to start us off. Normally, we ask you how you got to your current seat, but I'd love to know first how you two met each other and decided to run as co chairs for the KC.

David Chao [00:02:49]: So we met at NASPA, I think it was 2017. I think it was San Antonio at the national conference at one of the TKC group meetings. And we've been connected ever since then. I've enjoyed working. James has a lot of experience, and I've been able to really learn from him. And and he served as a mentor and a friend to me, as well as a colleague.

James Quisenberry [00:03:06]: Yeah. We got together because technology folks that are focused on technology and student affairs, there's some of us, but there's not a lot of us. And so David and I and a few other people would run into each other at NASPA and at EDUCAUSE, which is the professional association for higher ed IT folks. And we knew we had things to work on, things that we could collaborate with.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:28]: You all approach the work in a little bit of a different way than those of us who have trained as a master's in higher ed. Tell us how you ended up using your IT background and skills in student affairs. And, James, let's start with you.

James Quisenberry [00:03:40]: Yeah. Well, it was, I'll say, a little bit by accident. I started out in higher education in technology, but moved into the private sector for a while and decided I wanted to get back to higher education. And the opportunity that I found was leading IT IT for the housing division here at the University of Illinois, which is a a large operation, you know, 9,500 beds and about 1,200 apartments. And so I got into student affairs because they needed an IT leader because cause they had a complex IT environment. And I had a lot of background. I had spent some time in higher education, so it wasn't too big of a stretch for me. And so that's how I got into it.

James Quisenberry [00:04:16]: And I spent a lot of time working with Akuho early on because I was in housing. And then as I moved into a more student affairs breadth role, I started getting involved with NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:27]: And David, how about yourself?

David Chao [00:04:28]: So I had a bit of a roundabout journey to student affairs. I was in the business world for about ten years, and I don't have the business mentality. And I wanted to look for something, a little different, and I turned to higher education. And so I'm actually a Pitt alumni. So I came back to the University of Pittsburgh and and got a job here. I did not know what student affairs was before I started working for Pitt, but in hindsight, I had a challenging college experience. And as I look back on that experience, I realized how many student affairs professionals I interacted with, even if I didn't fully understand who they were or what they were. And that really kind of inspired me as I worked for Pitt student affairs, just wanting to use my technology skills to help the people that were helping kids like me and providing guidance and mentoring and, and, just helping them develop.

David Chao [00:05:13]: So it, it was interesting how it ended up. It wasn't intentional in any means, but here I am. And I'm, I'm grateful for that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:19]: You're both in unique situations in which you are working directly with the division of student affairs as an IT leader. Some universities are organized with a completely centralized IT model and some are more hub and spoke models. Some of them also have completely unrelated IT departments across large complex organizations. Can you talk to us a little bit about what it means to work directly with student affairs and student affairs professionals in the IT world versus if you were in a more centralized model?

David Chao [00:05:46]: So interestingly, I report to both central IT and to student affairs. So I I do work full time for student affairs, but I'm connected with Pitt IT central IT. So we have a model that that varies depending on the departments. So that allows us to have a good connection with central IT and the resources they have, while staying connected with student affairs and the specific things that they need.

James Quisenberry [00:06:05]: Yeah. And I would say I have something similar in that I'm really active with campus IT, and so I have been tapped many times to lead campus level initiatives even though I'm embedded in student affairs. One of the things, we created shared service for technology and student affairs just about seven years ago. And one of the founding principles of that was you can do IT in many different places. You can do it many ways on campus, but we wanted to create an environment where individuals who are interested in the mission of student affairs that wanted to practice IT and higher ed would come to our unit because that's our focus. Our focus is supporting staff who support students either directly or indirectly. And so I think that's important. I've seen all of the different types of organizations.

James Quisenberry [00:06:54]: Like my big 10 peers, we talk a lot about how we do things differently, and some of them have strong IT organizations like we do in student affairs, and some of them are very small but mighty and have to leverage everything out of the central IT group. And that's the challenge because their focus is not always on the student experience. They may have a focus on teaching and learning, which is faculty centric, or they may have a focus on research, which is, again, not very focused on the student experience or the weird things we have to run-in student affairs and housing and dining and recreation and all of these different places. So I think it's a challenge for those organizations that don't have some technology resources in their student affairs area because they don't get that same kind of focus on serving students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:42]: I think the typical listener to SA Voices has technology embedded in their career on a daily basis regardless of their personal level of comfort with tools, with databases, with technological spaces beyond the Microsoft Office suite, things like that. How do you approach the work for student affairs professionals who haven't maybe been raised in a collegiate environment where tech was a focus versus professionals who are maybe in lockstep with you and and figuring out the latest and greatest?

David Chao [00:08:10]: I think here at Pitt, you know, our focus has been making sure that we're working with we don't wanna be an on demand service. We wanna be engaged as part of the process. I think I've really been trying to promote a multi discipline approach to our technology that, yes, there's a technical part to it that you have to have a skill set and experience to do. But so much of technology is well, really almost all of it that we do is is user facing, whether it's our students or faculty or staff. And so that kind of design doesn't just happen purely without interacting with the people who are working with them. So just making sure that we're kind of holistic in our way. So it's just not just, Hey, we need technology and you go do it on your own and then come back. It's like we have to develop it together.

David Chao [00:08:49]: And I think that is something that we try to, it's important for us to try to understand student affairs and their goals, what they're working towards, and also share what our IT needs are and what we need from them to help understand the technology. So I think it's really finding that bridge between the two.

James Quisenberry [00:09:06]: Yeah. David, you you stated so succinctly, but, you know, there's a certain amount of chasing after some of the folks we support, and there's a little bit of coaxing them along. It's interesting because I was just actually part of a review for University of Illinois Chicago, their student affairs technology team. And one of the things we focus on, because we were using the CAST standards, is inclusion. And that's a dimension of inclusion that we get to see that's not talked about a lot, which is we have a workforce who may or may not have technology skills. It may not be important to their particular role. And so we have to be providers who are inclusive in being able to support people where they're at with their comfort level with technology. Sometimes that means we we have to go steps further.

James Quisenberry [00:09:52]: Sometimes it means we have to understand that we have a person we're supporting that can do more without us having to get in their way. Right? So that's an unusual nuance to inclusion that is on our minds from a technology standpoint. It harkens to, like, the digital divide conversations from twenty years ago. You you gotta be able to serve everyone with technology in a way that is supportive of them.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:14]: I love that you brought up inclusion as a value in tech, particularly from the tech KC perspective, because it is one of the great equalizers if we're doing it well. We're allowing people to access information through technology, or, support their learning through technology. What are you all thinking about from a KC perspective in terms of inclusion and tech as they come together in student affairs right now?

David Chao [00:10:37]: We have a couple of things that we are focusing on through the TKC. One of them is the ACP and NASPA tech competency. And that was going through revision now. I believe all the competencies are up for review, and we participated in the focus group for the technology competency. And I think there's gonna be a draft to be reviewing in the next couple months. The other area is, as James mentioned, is CAS. There is no standard for technology in CAS currently. And so I believe those last November or so, CAS made an announcement about how they are doing a strategic review about their approach and and long term.

David Chao [00:11:09]: And we reached out to them, offering the TKC and and our assistance in developing a technology standard. And we participated in our focus group, in December as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:18]: I think that one's probably a long time coming for us in student affairs and higher education. As that works through development, do we know a timeline or an anticipated next step in how that might get developed?

David Chao [00:11:28]: Doctor. Not right now. I think they're still evaluating the overall strategy for CAS, but we did engage the assessment and Casey as well, because they have their assessment specific things about, you know, how do you create surveys? How do you word questions to avoid bias? But then they also have the technical side to them too. I mean, you have the Tableaus, you have alterics and the tools that kind of are siblings to the technology, Casey. So we've actually been talking about partnering to work with CAS to make sure those elements are included as well. But no, there's no firm timeline right now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:55]: When I think about the tech, Casey, I think you all play such an important role in what NASPA is doing to keep us all up to date. If I am a student affairs professional, but I'm not in my IT department, how can I participate or find space within the TKC for me?

James Quisenberry [00:12:09]: Well, we're always looking for people to join us. There's not a test. You don't have to, have a certain level of competency with technology that If you're just interested, we're always happy to have people join us. And I don't know, David, what's our our current interest level based on the tools we have

David Chao [00:12:25]: About 400 right now.

James Quisenberry [00:12:26]: That had expressed interest in the KC. So they're they're getting our our direct, emails and things that we share about what's going on. I always like one of the things that we really appreciate is that NASPA brought back the knowledge community area at the national conference where people can kind of wander around and talk to the different KCs and find their alignments. That's always a good place to do that. Not everybody can travel to NASPA, but if you're interested, our information is on the NASPA website.

David Chao [00:12:56]: Yeah. I would add to that that, you know, we're also trying to bring in a really wide range in terms of inclusion, in terms of of of who our audience is because we we serve everyone. And while James and I have an IT background, we also have faculty. We have deans, we have project managers. We have all aspects of, of student affairs professionals who are involved in technology. And that's important to us. So whether it's our annual awards or sponsored programs or a technology journal, we want to have all aspects from the practical to the research.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:22]: What's on the current priority list for the TKC?

David Chao [00:13:25]: I think just the tech competencies and the CAS standard would be our highest priority, as well as our journal. We are working to publish a new volume of our journal of technology in higher education. And we haven't published since 2021. COVID did a number on all of us, of course. So that's really our focus right now. And just continued outreach and figuring out how we can, we can partner. I think we are all challenged with our resources right now in terms of our time. We all have our day jobs and the outreach.

David Chao [00:13:49]: And I think I think working with NASPA to find ways to increase our engagement and contribute to the overall student affairs profession.

James Quisenberry [00:13:55]: And one of the things we've been looking at for a couple of years is how to provide a resource to student affairs leaders to do external program reviews of how they use technology. That's something that I got interested in because some of my colleagues got me involved in their with their need for program review. And without a specific CAS standard to follow, we've had to kind of build that based on some components of CAS and some components of what we consider to be the guiding lights for higher ed IT service. And that's something we'd like to be in a place where the KC can be a resource where leader and student affairs could come to and say, hey. I'm I'm trying to figure out what's going on with how I use technology. Can you provide a couple of people that could come and help with an external review? So that that's a goal for us to make that that's something that, is ready and available to anyone who needs it.

David Chao [00:14:52]: Yeah. And I would add to that. In addition, the CAS standard is obviously very important when it's pinned on that. But then also having just even self assessment tools so that, you know, institutions can start out on their own just to get a sense of where they're at, before going to a program review. But I do, to echo James, I think the reviews are really important. I think in higher education, you know, we're not we're very collaborative by nature. I mean, yeah, in some cases, we're competing for the same students and and for admission purposes, but the reality is we're all about learning and educating. And chances are whatever issue one institution is dealing with, another institution has been dealing with it too.

David Chao [00:15:25]: So why don't we find ways to try to standardize it? There's no never gonna be one right answer, but maybe we can find ways to narrow it down and at least have a certain range so we're not completely all over the map.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:36]: Let's talk about that self assessment potential tool that's coming forward. What are we, asking institutions or divisions of student affairs to be looking at for doing well in the tech area or being maybe more on the forefront of technological technological development, given that we don't have the standards yet to measure against?

James Quisenberry [00:15:56]: Yeah. I think you have to start with the competency to look at that because even though it's under review, it's it's been there for a little while, and it can be used to see where your staff is at, which helps determine what kind of resources you have to ask these questions. One of one of the really challenging things, and you hit on this earlier, Jill, is that how we use technology in student affairs varies widely how it's organized. And so it's it's kind of hard to build a one size fits all kind of standard because some places have their own staff or maybe even doing their own software development, which is unusual these days, but still happens. Or they might be completely dependent on a third party central IT or other parts of the campus to do this work. So it has to be kind of abstract, the question about how you're using technology. And I think it centers I would like to say it centers around student experience and staff needs, which are kind of highly variable from campus to campus.

David Chao [00:16:57]: I would ask kind of tangentially about skillset regarding the competency. You know, I think understanding what our staff and their technology skills and what their needs are and what we can help them with, or can they, you know, kind of run with them on their own or just guiding them? I think that's an important sense to understand what we can deliver. I think that one of our colleagues, Erica Eckert at Kent State University, she teaches a course that James and I have actually, she's invited us to be guest speakers. It's a technology systems and data and higher education administration. And I was very excited to hear that she was teaching that course, because administration. And I was very excited to hear that she was teaching that course because I was talking to her and she hasn't found a lot of courses like that at other graduate programs, but that's an important exposure. I mean, obviously we're not expecting a student affairs professionals to have a degree in information science to work with technology, but having some foundational skills to understand that and be able to build from. So when we're talking and working with them, we're able, you know, we have that, again, that bridge again, kind of getting a little closer, I think is very helpful.

David Chao [00:17:51]: And, and Joe wanted to ask you about the technology module you're teaching in your master's program well along the lines of Erica's class.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:57]: Absolutely. So I'm working with NASPA and EUCA, which is the European Association that works with student affairs professionals. And NASPA and EUCA have partnered together to create a master's program through LUNA University in Rome. So for our listeners, if you go back to the first episode of this season, we featured seven or eight of the graduate students that are currently in that class, sharing their perspectives on global student affairs and what they're learning. And actually part part of what we did for their class, because one of the things that they asked me about learning was podcasting skills, was we went in straight to lab and said, Hey, you know what? We're gonna talk about production, and we're gonna feature you on the show if you want to be, if you wanna appear. And so it was a a lovely way of integrating theory to practice really quickly in the same four hour block. But we're focused a lot on AI. We're focused a lot on technological tools to support students with disabilities.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:47]: We're gonna be looking at how universities are using technology for recruitment purposes. For example, there's a university in the Southwest who recreated their campus in Minecraft, the video game, as a way of introducing their students to a campus tour. Because, you know, we've we've, I I think, all seen the campus tour where you can kind of click forward and stand on the circle and and look around. But that is a very real estate y kind of way to look at a campus. Whereas what a 17 year old or 18 year old high school senior might be looking for is can I move around the campus in Minecraft? Like it's a very interesting way of approaching the same type of problems. I'm curious how campuses are meeting the needs of Gen Z and quicker than we're ready for meeting the needs of Gen Alpha because we're moving away from a generation of people who tinker to a generation of people for whom things have just always worked. And that's interesting. I read a study about millennials being the only generation that have had to teach both their parents and their children how to fix a printer, which I think is really funny.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:47]: But I think it's interesting because millennials came of age, modern technology, the iPhone, internet came of age and that created a tinkering mindset for that particular generation. Whereas that looks a little different for Boomer, X or Z and Alpha. So I think those are some things that I'm thinking about. Doctor. Jason Perry (3five '30

James Quisenberry [00:20:04]: three): Yeah.

David Chao [00:20:04]: And I I would add to that for sure. I mean, today, this generation, they are the most tech savvy generation ever, and the next generation will be even more so. They're being exposed to technology and have expectations that people didn't have before. And they're used to being on their phone, downloading an app. Do they like it? If they don't, they get rid of it. They get another one. And then as apps become more popular, they kind of almost crowd sources itself. But when we deliver technology, in higher education, you know, we can't move so quickly.

David Chao [00:20:30]: We can't just be, you know, when we're, whether it's academic side or on the student affairs side, you know, we have to put a little more design and thought into our apps. You know, we don't, we can't afford to be putting out version one point zero one point one, one point two, two, one point three. We have to have a little bit more stability because ultimately these services impact our students. So I think for sure that the need to, to design, to lay out your processes before you even get to the technical side, to understand what you're trying to do. That's something I think we really try to work on with our staff to understand there's a process behind this that will be translated. But if the process isn't clearly defined, it will not necessarily translate more to technology. And that despite all the hype about AI, we don't have a magic button right now that just makes everything work if we press it. So I think that's an important part in understanding how we can deliver the technology that our students need.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:13]: I remember when I was at the University of Oregon in the late 2010s, '1 of my favorite uses of technology we did was utilize the GIS mapping service that had been developed by our tech team in conjunction with our food security task force to build kind of a system to text message students when there was free leftover food on campus. And it was an amazing collaboration between GIS mapping, the information technology team, the food security task force and university dining, as well as anyone who was purchasing catering for, for campus events. We all know how much food waste there is on college campuses because of these types of events. And also because of food safety handling reasons, we can't always donate what, is unused, but we could send that information to students who could go get it. And so there's some very cool things happening like that. I'm also wondering if you can share with us any very interesting or new tech trends that are coming down the pike that may or may not be related to AI.

James Quisenberry [00:22:04]: We can't have this conversation without talking about AI. And the trend that is that I'm observing is the idea that you can have an agent for anything, essentially a chatbot that is programmed to answer questions and and solve, I'll call them, simple problems for information gathering because it extends the reach of a lot of our offices want to be able to serve students all the time. Right? But they we can't staff to be there all the time. So that's an important, interesting trend. But, well, a lot of people don't have a good understanding of are the weaknesses of the large language model design and how its goal is not to necessarily give you the most accurate information. Its goal is to give you the information it thinks you want and organize in a way that's pleasing to you. And that's how we get hallucinations or things that come out of those kinds of agents that seem right, but on further review aren't based in fact. So I participated in a higher ed AI conference at Notre Dame back in November, and it was just groups coming together and talking about what they were doing.

James Quisenberry [00:23:09]: And it that seemed to be the the thing that was most popular was talking about building agents and having agents serve in different areas. One thing that I saw that was both creepy and really cool at the same time was a digital doppelganger that a campus had created, which essentially the person who was giving the presentation had a digital image, a deep fake, I guess, of himself that he played. And it went through giving his presentation and shifted to Spanish, and then it shifted to French, and then it shifted to Mandarin. I mean and it was him, and his facial expressions and, you know, mouth movements fit the language that he was delivering. Of course, I don't speak some of those languages, so I don't know how well it was translating. But the idea of when you think about building community, you think about maybe the chancellor of your campus giving a welcome message to international students that comes to them in their language. And it looks like the chancellor, and it sounds but it's delivered in a way that's very comfortable for them to take in. Even though it's creepy, it's very powerful.

James Quisenberry [00:24:11]: And those kinds of capabilities, I know they're they're talking about that in a way to extend how some professors can teach more courses rather than having to have the energy to do that, like, five times, many times, or have it be on demand. That's one of the things that's so concerned about how that kind of technology can be used to spread misinformation and make it look like people who are important or recognize are saying things that they're not they're not really saying. Still, the the benefits of those kinds of capabilities are, I think, apparent.

David Chao [00:24:44]: I

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:45]: think coming down soon, we're gonna have to be having a conversation on how we're developing curriculum for students on recognizing what is AI produced and what is not because that's going to get harder and harder to tell. For now, we can do things like look for uncanny uncanny valley kind of images or AI really is garbage at producing hands and feet for some reason at the moment. So we can look at those things. There's a meme that's always like chat gpt can't tell you how many Rs are in strawberry because of the way that the algorithm works and things like that. So we have this technology now that is doing certain things and it's easier to recognize, but it's going to get more sophisticated. And as it gets more sophisticated, it will be harder for us to tell what's real and what's generated. So I think that's gonna be an interesting thing to watch TKC tackle and lead on the forefront for NASPA coming soon.

David Chao [00:25:28]: Yeah. And I just wanted to add to James, we see that trend here at Pitt in terms of using AI and more focused use cases to learn. I mean, the chat, chat gbt, and all those tools are really fun to play with. But as you mentioned, we find issues with them and we can't afford to be putting out chats to try to provide our students with information and have that kind of variance. But having very specific chatbots that have specific, that are trained to do answer specific questions and narrow it down, it helps us learn from them and be more focused and takes out that variance. And I think that's important. And these are things that we're trying to do at Pitt with some of the chatbots we're playing with as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:00]: With those large language models, it's garbage in, garbage out is what I like to teach. So if we if we put in a garbage prompt, we're gonna get a garbage answer, meaning nonspecific or maybe not quite related to what we're looking at. But it also is a good reminder to us that these language models are crawling our websites for how they're generating our data. So if our website information is not accurate, then their the model will not be able to spit out accurate information back to the user. But if we're looking at specific models for our campuses, we can also then know what our, our audiences are asking for the most. Like what keywords are being input the most? What questions are hardest for people to find? But I will say the one use that we're seeing from Gen Z that terrifies me the most personally is using ChatGPT for therapy. We're seeing young people put in their life situations into ChatGPT and asking for advice that way. And I know that there are some AI counseling based models that are coming out.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:55]: I do think it's a little bit scarier to know that someone who might be having a mental health crisis is turning to an AI service rather than a human that could help them through that difficult situation because there are some things that technology can do really well. But I just don't I just don't know personally that a mental health intervention will ever be done better by machine than by a person.

James Quisenberry [00:27:15]: Yeah. It it's interesting. I think we we kinda actually went through this when with early online education. There there was a conversation about how can we go this route, how can a computer teach students, how we can't lose the human touch and and the value of teachers. That's all true. But one of the things we learned in that process were certain individuals, particularly individuals who were might be in a minority or an underrepresented area, had an opinion of the computer that it was unbiased. And that may not be a safe opinion, by the way, in the world of AI. But the idea of being able AI as a space to try out ideas and to explore things, maybe not mental health, but explore things in a non judgmental place, does have does have some merit and does create a space where sometimes students can ask questions that they wouldn't feel comfortable asking to the TA or the professor because they don't wanna look stupid.

James Quisenberry [00:28:17]: And so while you're concerned about can it do therapy successfully, very valid question, we don't know that in the long term. It does provide a a place where you can interact where some of the stakes are lower from a personal standpoint.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:31]: Absolutely. That is an incredible value that these LLMs can can give our students or the faculty and staff on a campus. And especially because there's no limitation to the hours in which you can ask a question to an LLM, whereas there, you know, there is a limitation to when we can staff our departments. I wanna ask if there's anything in particular that you wish the typical student affairs professional knew about technology that maybe you're seeing, a learning gap for or something in the skill set that you find particularly helpful, when you center technology in the work.

James Quisenberry [00:29:03]: One of the things I've been thinking about a lot is we are a technology team that has been created to support operations. And so we're staffed I won't say we're understaffed, but we're staffed pretty lean because we're student affairs. We have what we need to get by. And one of the things that continues to happen is individuals come to us questions about new ideas or new directions and so forth, but we've never invested in technology and student affairs from an r and d or innovation perspective. It's always been, what do we need to do the operations to get this data load for students this fall and those kinds of things. And we have to think about that because and this is one of the the promises of of AI is that if we can take some of the busy work off of people's plates to create a little more space, then we can think about innovation. Then we can go down that path. And I love it when people ask us if we can do things that are beyond what we're doing, but we have to have this understanding that to invest, you have to have time to think, Right? To innovate, you have to have time to think.

James Quisenberry [00:30:10]: You can't be in constant firefighting mode, which we know we are in a lot of the time. And so that's what I would ask as student affairs professionals to consider is, how are we making space for innovation from a mental capability standpoint? How do we create that space? I know we're doing that. Just about every department of Sioux Fairs can talk about how they're creating space for their staff to for their own health, for their well-being, and such. But that's something I I feel like is an assumption that is made and and needs to be thought through a little bit.

David Chao [00:30:40]: Yeah. And I'd like to echo that, James. I think that we in my experience within student affairs, not just here at Pitt, but at interacting with other institutions, we tend to be very reactive. Higher education doesn't move that fast. And so that ends up putting us always leaving something on the table by being reactive instead of proactive, trying to get ahead of some things. Obviously technology moves very quickly, so you're never going to ever truly be ahead, but we don't need to be often as behind as we are. And I think just trying to shift that a little bit. So we're not just doing the firefighting, the day to day stuff, and just responding that we are getting and we're designing and recreating, which ultimately will allow us to breathe and think and provide better solutions.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:19]: I think that that plight of being in constant reaction mode is the plight of pretty much every student affairs department who wants to be serving our students in new and more robust ways. And it's such an intense thing to think about how do you carve out that time, and also still manage to do what you need to do in a given week. So if you all find that magic solution, we'll have you back on the show to tell us how you did it. I do wanna bring us into our theme questions for the season. We are talking about the past, present, and future of student affairs. So I have a question for each of those areas. And our first question is on the past. What's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively to let go of?

David Chao [00:32:05]: I would just say that we're here for our students. We're here to care for them. Times may change. Technology changes. The world changes, but our ability to help them grow and develop and be a resource for them is is never gonna change from

James Quisenberry [00:32:16]: And I plus one on that, but I I would add the culture of assessment, the the ability of student affairs to take a look at what they're doing and compare it to what their expectations are and what other people may be doing in this space, is a continuous improvement mindset, which is we don't call it that, but that's what it is. And that's how we move things forward, both being introspective about what we're doing and looking outward around us to see if somebody has figured it out in a way that we haven't.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:45]: Into the present, what's happening right now in the field of student affairs that's going well for us?

David Chao [00:32:50]: I would say that we are started with COVID and it's continuing now. We're learning to adapt, to be resourceful, and to be resilient. And, you know, these are the things that we teach our students. And so, you know, we should be doing practicing what we preach. Right? And so I think that's something in the present that we really need to focus on.

James Quisenberry [00:33:06]: Yeah. The trend on health and well-being for our students and our and our staff is at a strong point. We just signed on at the University of Illinois to the Okanagan Charter of, being a health promoting university. And and I I think that's built in the recent years, and I think it's a good a good trend.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:23]: And finally, looking towards the future, in an ideal world, what does student affairs need to be doing right now to thrive towards the future?

David Chao [00:33:30]: I think collaboration across professional disciplines, whether it's student affairs professionals, technology professionals, business professionals, you know, ultimately, that holistic, multidiscipline approach will serve our students better in what we do by having that.

James Quisenberry [00:33:44]: Yeah. I'd reinforce that by saying, you know, we're tearing down the silos between the different areas in our student affairs, division, and that's that's getting that's getting collaborative opportunities. And that is also better for our students because we're less a bunch of different departments trying to serve them and more a student affairs division who serves them through different paths. I came into student affairs as a technology professional learning student affairs. I wanna be thinking thought of as a student affairs professional practicing technology, and I'm doing that through an EdD program. Because what I found when I've done reviews of other technology teams is that the leader may have come from industry like David and I have, and but and they haven't invested as much in learning the practice of student affairs, either by getting a master's degree or working on an advanced degree. And that that's important because technology folks have a mindset. Student affairs folks have a mindset.

James Quisenberry [00:34:42]: We need to have a balance between those. We have to bring them together as leaders of technology in student affairs.

David Chao [00:34:50]: Yeah. I would add to that. You know, when I I've been in student affairs for almost fifteen years. And when I started, obviously, just learning, it's a pretty big place, right? So really all the different departments, the disciplines, the different goals, but I always found myself drawn to understanding what they do. What are their goals? Things that are specific to student affairs that from an IT professional, you might think, well, that's not technical. So why do I care about that? That? But I think it helps me understand better what they need so I can help deliver that technology. And to James's point, you know, student affairs and IT are, they're two different professionals, professions. They have different education experience, skill sets, and languages.

David Chao [00:35:24]: And so being able to bridge that is is really important. And rather than just sitting on one side of it, I think it's important to learn both sides.

James Quisenberry [00:35:30]: Oh, yes. I could go into that in-depth, but it's something I've been thinking about for years, which is how we use student data in predicting student success, particularly from non academic data. So the stuff that we actually hold in a lot of our student affairs and auxiliaries are are starting to be used into these black boxes that label students as being successful successful or not successful. And it's not being done with a good eye towards the ethical and other implications of making those choices. How you're defining success matters. And you may be labeling something, someone is not successful because they behave in a certain way, say how they use their meal plan, how they use campus recreation, but it's not part of their experience to use it the way the other 90% of the population at the campus think of that. So that's a concern that I have is that leaders at the institution are making these choices about these data inputs and not having a privacy and ethical conversations about they're thinking about, can we do this as opposed to, should we do this, and what are the unintended consequences of those choices?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:38]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:44]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. NASPA has joined over 60 higher education associations and organizations who urged the US Department of Education to rescind its recent guidance outlined in the February 14 dear colleague letter. You can view the dear colleague letter and its subsequent facts in NASPA's public policy hub. If you've never visited the hub before, go to learning.NASPA.org to learn more about many of the policies that NASPA is following currently with updates on a regular basis. There is a new NASPA VPSA and AVP colleague conversation that is happening on 04/17/2025 at 4PM Eastern Standard Time entitled Beyond the Pilot, Leading Large Scale AI Transformation in Student Affairs. Successful AI integration requires more than an isolated pilot program or departmental initiative. This colleague conversation will leverage the transformational potential of AI and student affairs, recommendations for student affairs leaders report, and the four phase framework to empower senior leaders with the tools to develop and scale strategic AI initiatives.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:00]: Participants will explore practical approaches to leading AI implement to leading AI implementation, fostering collaboration, and influencing decision making and influencing decision making. You can sign up today on the learning portal at the NASPA website, again, by going to learning.nasa.org. There is an ongoing partnership with IUCAA, which is the European University College Association and Universita LUMSa on a one year certificate program that is designed to on a one year certificate program entitled the training of experts in student affairs and campus life, first level university master's degree. This certificate is designed to develop key competencies for professionals in universities and in halls of residents who deal with all extra academic matters or student affairs issues on their campus that concern university students and their soft skills development. This course, the course combines interdisciplinary and multidisciplinary actions, providing a professional training model in which experts will work in teams with different policies with different profiles, including psychological, pedagogical, organizational, and legal. You can find out more about this certificate program at luumsa, l u m s a, dot I t. One final plug from the episode earlier this week, Jill and I will be at the NASPA annual conference in New Orleans. And if you are planning to attend the conference, we are so excited to be able to meet you, and we would love to be able to have your voices on an upcoming episode.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:39]: At the conference, as usual, we will have three questions that we typically we will have three questions that we will be asking individuals. And even if you are not attending, we would love your voice. We would love your voice for these episodes. The three questions that we are planning to ask include, first, how can student affairs professionals model healthy excellence in their own lives and institutional cultures while supporting students' well-being? Second, how can we better leverage technology to meet the evolving needs of students and higher education institutions? And third, can you share a moment or experience in student affairs that you feel embodies the spirit of this profession? These are the three questions that we plan to ask at the conference. And if you are unable to meet with Jill or I to have your answers recorded, or if you can't attend the conference and would like your voice included, please record an audio recording of your answers to all three of these questions and send that audio file to essayvoices@NASPA.org. Each one of these questions will be used for an upcoming episode. For upcoming episodes that will happen this season, I do ask that all responses are sent in by 03/28/2025. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:03]: So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself. Where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:24]: Chris, thank you so much for this week's NASPA world. We always appreciate learning from you on what's going on in and around NASPA. And, James and David, we have reached our lightning round. We have seven questions for you to answer in about ninety seconds. I think, David, we're gonna have you go first and, James, you'll answer second. So number one, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

David Chao [00:42:46]: Oh my gosh. I have no idea.

James Quisenberry [00:42:48]: I'll go with George Thurgood, Bad to the Bone.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:50]: Number two, when you were five years old, what would you wanna be when you grew up?

David Chao [00:42:54]: I think a fireman.

James Quisenberry [00:42:54]: I wanted to be my dad.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:56]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor?

David Chao [00:42:59]: I would say Karen Ashford, assistant dean here at Pitt.

James Quisenberry [00:43:01]: I would say, actually, my mom who retired as dean of the College of Education at Southern Illinois University in Carbondale.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:07]: Number four, your essential student affairs read.

David Chao [00:43:09]: The journal of technology in higher education.

James Quisenberry [00:43:11]: I'm gonna go with five dysfunctions of a team by Patrick Guinzione. I think that's good for everyone, not just student affairs.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:17]: Number five, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

David Chao [00:43:20]: I don't watch a lot of television, so that's not a good question. I'm sorry.

James Quisenberry [00:43:23]: Right now, we're on with my wife. We're doing only murders in the building.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:27]: Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

David Chao [00:43:31]: SA voices from the field.

James Quisenberry [00:43:32]: I'm sorry. I'm gonna have to say smart

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:34]: And finally, number seven. Any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional?

David Chao [00:43:39]: Yeah. Just wanna shout out to Paul Shantz who is our colleague at Cal State Northridge. He's another one of our long term student affairs IT colleagues.

James Quisenberry [00:43:46]: Yeah. I'm gonna give David a shout out for being our chair last couple of years. He's really done a great job and appreciate his leadership.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:52]: It's been a pleasure to learn from you all today and also learn specifically what's going on in the tech KC. If any of our listeners would like to reach you after the show, how can they find you?

David Chao [00:44:02]: So I'm on LinkedIn. University of Pittsburgh. That's the fastest way to contact me.

James Quisenberry [00:44:07]: Yeah. And you can reach me at my University of Illinois address, which is jpqasinJamesPaulQuisenberry@Illinois.edu, and I'm on LinkedIn too.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:17]: Thank you both so much for sharing your voices with us today.

James Quisenberry [00:44:20]: Thank you, Jill. Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:27]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners, and we continue to be grateful that you spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at SAvoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and please leave us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really helps other student affairs professionals find our show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:05]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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The annual NASPA conference is a cherished opportunity for student affairs professionals to converge, connect, and collaborate. Hosts Dr. Jill Creighton and Producer Dr. Christopher Lewis express their enthusiasm for the New Orleans venue, where they aim to engage with colleagues, break bread, and create new podcast episodes. The conference serves as a hub for sharing knowledge, nurturing professional relationships, and embracing the vibrant culture of student affairs.

Bringing Your Voices to Life

Following in the path of previous seasons, Dr. Creighton and Dr. Lewis are eager to capture the voices of their peers. They'll roam the conference floors with recording devices, ready to engage attendees on themes of the past, present, and future of student affairs. The hosts encourage participants to bravely share their insights, promising that each voice is valued for the richness it adds to the profession.

Live Episodes: Join the Conversation

An exciting highlight of the conference will be the recording of two live episodes with distinguished NASPA award winners. Attendees are invited to join these sessions at the Marriott Warehouse Arts District, where they can witness in-depth discussions and possibly contribute their own questions. This dynamic platform amplifies the stories of professionals who have dedicated their careers to student affairs, offering inspiration and guidance to others in the field.

Continuing the Dialogue

Dr. Creighton and Dr. Lewis extend an open invitation to all attendees to approach them during the conference. The podcast thrives on listener engagement, and the hosts are eager to collaborate with fellow professionals. Whether through unexpected encounters or scheduled live sessions, the podcast aims to capture the heart of student affairs, one voice at a time.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:33]: I am so excited to go back down to New Orleans again this year to be able to meet up with all of our NASPA friends and be able to see you again as we always do every year at the conference and be able to break some bread, but also to record some episodes and and have a ton of fun.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:49]: So like we have in previous seasons, look for Chris and I roaming around the conference because we're going to be looking for your voices. We're gonna be seeking out you to ask you some questions on our theme of the past, present, and future of student affairs, and we've been so thrilled to have almost a hundred of you featured on the show over the last couple of years.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:07]: It is always exciting to be able to talk to people. Don't be weirded out. If we come up to you and ask you if you will be willing to answer some questions, just know that it's because we value your voice and value your, what you are providing to the profession. So we definitely want you to be a part of these upcoming episodes. So watch for us and definitely say yes when we ask.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:33]: And also I'm gonna own that it's kind of awkward for me to just walk up to a stranger, even though I know you're my colleague, to say, Hey, would you mind answering answering some questions into this little recording device I'm carrying? So please know that if we're approaching you, it's because we value your voice and and we're excited to hear from you. But if we don't approach you, please approach us. That's also completely fine, and we'll probably have our recording devices in our bags as we move about the conference.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:56]: You know, the other thing that I'm really excited about is we're going to be recording two live episodes at the conference. We got two great professionals that that you're gonna be talking with at the conference, and we're gonna be sitting down. And any of you have the opportunity to be able to be a part of that recording.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:14]: Both NASPA award winners, we're excited for you to get to know their stories a little bit more in-depth. And to find us, it's going to be Tuesday morning at 08:30 in the morning. The room is escaping me off the top of my head, but you'll be able to find it inside of the conference app. So please come join us if you'd like to hear essay voices recorded live. And if there's time and space, you may even be able to ask your own question.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:35]: Well, Jill, we're actually gonna be in the Marriott Warehouse Arts District in the Graveyor Sea Room.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:41]: Alright.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:42]: So just like Jill said, I encourage you, come on out. Take some time. Come meet us. But also hear some amazing award winners, people that have been in NASPA for quite some time talk about their professional journey.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:53]: Looking forward to seeing everyone in New Orleans.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:56]: See you soon.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:02]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners, and we continue to be grateful that you spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at essayvoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and please leave us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really helps other student affairs professionals find our show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:41]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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Student affairs professionals often encounter interim leadership positions, which can significantly impact a university's trajectory. This podcast episode from "Student Affairs Voices from the Field" explores the nuances of interim leadership with insights from Dr. Jen Myers Pickard and Dr. Leanna Fenneberg.

What is Interim Leadership?

Interim leadership occurs when a temporary leader steps into a role during a transition period at a higher education institution. As Dr. Jen Myers Pickard explains, there are typically two types of interim leaders: those who come from within the institution and those brought in externally. Internal interims can offer continuity, while external interims bring fresh perspectives and prevent internal disruption.

The Purpose of Interim Leadership

Dr. Pickard and Dr. Fenneberg articulate the goals of interim leadership. Universities may choose interim leaders to maintain momentum on strategic priorities, provide specific expertise, or mentor existing teams. Interim roles can also facilitate necessary changes without long-term commitments, allowing institutions to address pressing issues such as restructuring or leadership challenges.

Inherent Challenges and Considerations

For many institutions, the decision to bring in an external interim leader raises questions about its impact on current staff. Concerns exist that an interim leader might delay significant initiatives or focus solely on maintaining existing processes. Dr. Fenneberg shares her experiences, emphasizing the importance of addressing such concerns through active engagement and transparent communication with all campus stakeholders.

Transitioning from Interim to Permanent Roles

Some interim leaders see their positions as stepping stones to permanent roles. Dr. Pickard advises having candid conversations with supervisors about potential long-term opportunities. Understanding the contractual terms of interim placements can also influence whether one can be considered for the permanent position.

Deciding on Interim Leadership

Choosing interim leadership as a career step can be strategic. Dr. Fenneberg discusses her decision-making process, which involved balancing the need for employment and her commitment to family. She underscores the role of networking in finding interim positions, while Dr. Pickard emphasizes reaching out to placement firms to explore opportunities.

Embracing the Interim Role Fully

Dr. Fenneberg and Dr. Pickard agree on the importance of fully engaging with interim roles. By adopting a proactive approach, interim leaders can make meaningful contributions to their institutions. This includes mentoring teams, sustaining strategic initiatives, and exploring opportunities for personal and professional growth.

Interim leadership in higher education presents unique challenges and opportunities for growth. By engaging fully and understanding the context of their roles, interim leaders can significantly impact their institutions while setting the stage for future success.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is season 12, continuing our journey through the past, present, and future of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on essay voices, we're exploring the topic of interim leadership with two wonderful colleagues, Dr. Jen Myers Pickard and Dr. Leanna Fenneberg. Based in Tucson, Arizona, Jen brought her skills to Whit Kiefer after nearly two decades in academic and student affairs roles at AAU institutions, first at Northwest University and the University of Maryland and later at the University of Arizona. Jen has a broad insight into the inner workings of higher education institutions and is driven by passion to find the right leaders for specific client needs. Her search expertise includes presidents, provosts, deans, and leaders in a wide variety of administrative units, including student affairs, student success, research and innovation, and finance and administration.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:05]: Jen joined Whitkey for after nineteen years in higher ed, most recently serving as the AVP for divisional initiatives and planning within student affairs and enrollment management, academic initiatives, and student success at the University of Arizona. In this role, Jen functioned in a chief of staff capacity, extending the vision and capacity of senior institutional leadership through work on change management initiatives, executive level talent acquisition, oversight of institution wide assessment efforts, and leadership of faculty student engagement and success programs. Jen is very proud of her leadership and administrative roots within the field of education. As such, she's deeply committed to the cultivation of emerging higher education professionals, continuing to develop and facilitate leadership institutes and conference sessions, and being active in NASPA along with other higher ed organizations. Additionally, Jen joined the board of the International School of Tucson in January of twenty twenty and was named board chair in June of twenty twenty one. Dr. Leanna Fenneberg is a recent NASPA pillar of the profession and has dedicated over twenty five years in higher education and student affairs. Committed to advancing the potential of all students, Dr. Feeneberg's leadership focuses on diversity, equity, and inclusion, holistic student success and well-being, and the role of campus partnerships in transformational learning. A servant leader, colleagues describe her as a source of energy and purpose, driven by integrity, care for others, and an unwavering work ethic.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:19]: Dr. Fenenberg serves as senior vice president for student life at Duquesne University in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, following a career spanning functional areas, including housing, first year experience, and student success, earning early recognition as an astounding first year student advocate by the National Resource Center for the First Year Experience and Students in Transition. NASPA has been a primary professional place of inspiration and connection. She's served on the NASPA board of directors as director of knowledge communities, as cochair for the Women in Student Affairs WISA, and the student affairs partnering with academic affairs SAPA knowledge communities, and recently the director for the Alice Manaker Symposium. Her expertise is evidenced through peer reviewed articles, countless national presentations, and instruction in masters and Dr.al programs in higher education administration. As a first generation college graduate, Dr. Fenneberg holds a PhD in higher education administration from Saint Louis University, an MEd in student personnel services from the University of South Carolina, and a BA in communication from Marquette. She's a devoted wife, mom of two sons, and two cats, and finds joy in travel and reading. Welcome to Essay Voices. Today, we have Jen.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:20]: Hi, Jen. Hi. How are you? And Liana. Hello. So glad to be featuring you both, and I love it when we get to do episodes where we can get two perspectives on the same topic, which is what we're gonna be doing today, talking all about interim leadership placement processes in higher ed leadership. I think this is an area of higher ed leadership that has a little bit of mysticism around it. So I'm looking forward to demystifying how we get into interim leadership placements through formalities and search versus maybe informal interim placements and what it's like to be in that interim seat, which I know has both pros and cons to it. But before we get into the topic, we'd love to get to know you both a little bit better.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:00]: So, Jen, let's start with you. How did you get to your current seat at WKiefer?

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:04:03]: Sure. Very happy to share that briefly. Well, so my name is Jen Pickard. It's great to see you all or be with you here today. I actually came to my seat at Wake Kiefer via twenty years of being on campuses. So I actually started in sort of the in the traditional student affairs manner, thought I wanted to be a Dean of Students when I grew up, was heading into my Dr.ate, doing all that work in assessment and research actually at that time, and then moved into a position at the University of Arizona. It was a chief of of staff type of role at a very large division that oversaw student affairs, enrollment management, academic initiatives, and student success. Say that fast a few times.

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:04:39]: And it was a great and wonderful role because I with Kiefer, just a very right moment in time, I decided to jump on the search bandwagon that was in the summer of twenty eighteen. Six and a half years later, I'm now a senior partner and the head of our student affairs practice.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:05]: And, Liana, you are in a new role right now, but you also have gone through the Kiefer process through interim placement. But how did you get to your current VPSA seat?

Dr. Leanna Fenneberg [00:05:14]: Yes. Absolutely. Hello, everyone. Liana Fetterberg. I serve as the senior vice president for student life at Duquesne University. I'm in my ninth month here on campus, so it is a newer role. I've been in student affairs for this my twenty sixth year, I start to feel old and feel I earned my gray hair. But to say this is my eighth year as a vice president.

Dr. Leanna Fenneberg [00:05:33]: And after my vice president position at Rider University was eliminated as a cost savings measure, I started a national search. And as a part of that search, ended up in an interim placement situation for one academic year before coming here to Duquesne. And, actually, I ended up getting that position kind of through relationships. So an informal route. There are certainly coordinated, placement services through WhitKiefer and others, but mine ended up through my network, through relationships where people knew that I was without a position, and there was an institution and there was an institution and colleagues that had a need and, ended up filling that role. And it was a great experience. So I look forward to this conversation.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:12]: As we move forward in this conversation, let's talk about first, what is interim leadership? What does that mean to you?

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:06:18]: Well, I think that interim leadership, people think of it from two different ways. I think the one is an interim leader who is currently serving at that institution who's been asked or tapped on the shoulder when leadership departs or there's a transition of some sort to sit in that seat for x amount of time. Sometimes that's very defined, sometimes it's not, and sometimes that leads to new job for them, and sometimes it doesn't. So there's a lot of different parameters in that way. The other kind of interim that we think about and certainly what we obviously are supporting it with Kiefer is interim leadership where the university says we definitely wanna have some sort of external person. And often, that is because they want to be able to support and make sure that internally, right, we're not we're not messing up the apple cart, if you will, by pulling someone out of their day to day role or asking them to do double duty in their role, but rather wanna bring an external person in who maybe has that experience expertise skills or or obviously will have those expertise and skills in whichever space they're in, but they're also probably bringing a different perspective, right, to the role, to the work, and to the support it. So, again, those things can have very defined parameters, or it can be something that continues to be ongoing or, you know, is renegotiated after x amount of time. So I would consider those as sort of the two kind of leadership or interim types or definition of.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:40]: I'm glad you mentioned this possibility of bringing an external leadership not to disrupt the day to day operations of what's going on internally to an institution or to a student affairs division. Because I think if you're a person who is on the receiving end of new interim leadership, it can be kind of scary. It can also be a question of, like, well, why wasn't somebody that's already at the university selected to do this role? So what are you hearing when universities come to, your agency or any other agency? Just side note, we are not sponsored by WhitKiefer. This is not an ad episode.

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:08:12]: Not an ad for WhitKiefer. And I'll talk about other firms too, right, and what I know of them as well where I can. Yeah. We're just glad to have Jen's expertise on the topic. So I just wanna make sure we put that out there. But I am wondering what you hear from universities when the decision is made to bring in that external perspective rather than, promote someone within for that interim period of time. Right. So I think that so we actually I did some looking in some of our Wake Kiefer team.

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:08:37]: I asked in preparation for this to do a little of a deep dive, some of the motivations around interim leadership, etcetera, etcetera. And some of the things that they pulled back that we've learned from very much from our presidential placements in this space, but also this applies to other vice presidential levels or even other places in the organization. A lot of times why they're bringing folks in from outside is, you know, they really want to keep the momentum of key strategic priorities moving, right, in operational goals, objectives, things like that. Also, wanna pull in specific expertise areas. So, for example, if there's a division who is really trying to lean in on health and wellness initiatives, right, they might decide to find an interim who really has specialty or an expertise and in that space to try and do that work and help move the division forward in that work. Sometimes it is the way that it's helped out. It's helping to mentor other leaders on campus. And so they want this person as a really strong advocate for these individuals, for the team, especially in helping them prepare for their next permanent leader.

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:09:46]: I've definitely seen that happening. And then sometimes it's around the making and deploying change engine. Right? Who can make some tough decisions, who can do an analysis of the space, and maybe they might have them making some of those initial changes and different things that have to happen. That might be a structural change. It might be leadership change or or team change or or rearrangement there and so on. But, yeah, I think those are some of the major areas that we definitely see. I don't know, Liana, if there's other things that you've sort of heard and seen in your time now engaging more in the interim in that.

Dr. Leanna Fenneberg [00:10:18]: Honestly, Jen, that was a great recap of the different categories of why institutions that I'm hearing are considering or implementing interim leaders. I'll just add kind of a personal caveat based on my situation. So I was a vice provost for student life at Creighton University in Omaha, Nebraska. And it was a very unique and sensitive situation in that their incumbent vice president was battling cancer and was undergoing an intensive cancer treatment. And they needed an on the ground leader to help with healing as well as the day to day work and leadership. And so there may be more personalized situations as well as kind of the institutional structural situations that folks who are making decisions are navigating. And then it was really tragic that she and this is Tanya Weingard, beloved student affairs leader, passed away within two months of my time on campus. And so in this instance, you know, a presence of an outside leader to be able to attend to the day to day as well as attend to the emotions and the realities of the community and the staff and students during a difficult time in addition to doing the work, I think was a really astute decision for them and added some additional support to the community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:32]: Leah, you moved into an extremely sensitive situation. And in not only approaching a position from the perspective of you're not their permanent leader, but also you're someone who has to provide care quickly for a staff that you don't know well. How did you approach that process?

Dr. Leanna Fenneberg [00:11:49]: Well, thanks. I hope I did it well, Jill. But I'll tell you, I reread my email that I first sent to all of the staff in student life before I had arrived on campus. And so I wanted to do an introduction, like, hey. You just heard I'm arriving on your campus in a minute. This is who I am and and what I hope to achieve while I'm there. And I led in that. So in the it was a Jesuit Catholic campus, and part of the values tradition is cura personalis, care for the person.

Dr. Leanna Fenneberg [00:12:15]: And so, you know, I led with that and said, you know, my yes. I'll be doing some work. I'll be doing some things. I'll be making some decisions. You know? But my primary goal of being there is cura personalis, care for staff, care for students. Like, that's what I'm gonna lead with, and that's what we need to do to heal the community, to come together as a community, and continue to do the work with students in mind.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:36]: Knowing that you were only going to be there for this one year placement, how did you approach the work differently than what you're doing at your current institution where you know that you're going to be in that seat for a little while?

Dr. Leanna Fenneberg [00:12:47]: Yeah. Well, it's interesting, Jill. I feel like the approach, at least for me, is not that different, but the timing and the interactions are different. So, you know, you in any organization, any leader, you still wanna build the relationships, identify, you know, the needs and priorities and goals, and then be able to, like, leverage the group towards working towards those goals. Right? If we're looking at leadership super simplistically. Simplistically. So when you're in an interim role, I feel like you just have a shorter time frame to do that. And so let me give you an example.

Dr. Leanna Fenneberg [00:13:21]: You know, when I came in, there was a need to establish a strategic plan, but, of course, that wasn't my role. My my role wasn't to envision the future of the organization. So I worked with the group to identify more immediate needs and opportunities and priorities, and then we worked on an operational plan so we could still document, like, these are the things we're working towards as a group, but holding off the strategy for the future leader and setting the stage that the future leader still has the opportunity and responsibility to do that with the group. So working quickly to identify what can we do this year, what can we do during x time frame that will meaningfully move the organization forward while being conscious of there's still a future to be defined. I do think there are sensitivities to being an interim leader in general, sensitivities of I'm not the in group. I'm the person on the outside coming in right and not wanting to push too far, but being able to provide that external expertise and perspective and a mirror to people to say, did you know that you're doing this or did you know that other institutions are doing it this way? And being able to question things in a respectful, and appropriate way. So I think that that is something a sensitivity, if you will, in the approach to leadership. And then that was only exemplified even more during a sensitive emotional situation that I was facing.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:42]: That's really great advice, Lianna, that if you're coming in and saying, hey. You know what? My time is x amount of months or x amount of years, and what is achievable and realistic in a one year time frame in student affairs is really a fascinating question because a lot of us don't necessarily approach the work that way, right, we're looking at really long term trajectories, we're looking at three or five years, or we're looking semester by semester, or moment by moment, but it's it's I don't think that common in student affairs from a strategic planning perspective to say what is this very specific time limit, and this limitation providing us both an opportunity and a challenge to do? I appreciate that approach.

Dr. Leanna Fenneberg [00:15:18]: I was just thinking as well that the role of an interim, you have this opportunity to kind of be an external reviewer or a consultant in a sense that you're there for a period and you have fresh eyes towards everything. And so while you're you're trying to identify what work can be done or should be done at the time, for me, I was also kind of continuously having a running list of recommendations for the future. What are my observations? What are strengths? What are opportunities? What are recommendations for the future that I would hand off both to my provost who is the supervisor as well as the next leader so that all my observations could still be seen or heard, if you will.

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:15:55]: What I was gonna add is so depending on, you know, who your supervisor is, right, if it's the president or the provost, and what they're hoping for, whether you are an internal interim or an external interim, that's really gonna also guide what you're doing and how you're approaching. I imagine Lianna had a conversation prior but probably a lot of conversation around what it was they were hoping you were there to do. Obviously, you were there to care for the team and so on and so forth. But I think one of the biggest things that people get nervous about, right, and I think the limited data or research or what we hear on the street, right, bears this out, is that folks get nervous and an interim is gonna come in and basically just be a placeholder. Right? They're gonna continue to just keep the trains running on time, help make decisions, do those different things, which is a very important thing to do. Don't get me wrong. Right? But it is like, are you the one who ultimately is, you know, is it a situation if we are keeping the seat warm? Are we delaying those bigger, more strategic priorities, those big decisions, and so on? Are we just delaying that, and that's what frustrates people, makes them nervous about an interim position at all? Is that it? Or are you what I kinda call, like, the full steam ahead kind of interim? And Liana, in it sounds like her charge was sort of be to be a little bit of the in the middle there of that. And then doing that extra work, which I a % agree, is as an external in particular, you become that consultant and someone who's offering an analysis for the next future leader as well as the supervisors.

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:17:29]: Right? But that idea of of am I am I keeping keep am I a placeholder with a very specific for a very specific reason in helping the team to continue forward and really be successful versus a full team ahead leader. And I think that that is a spot in particular for those who are internal interims. They stop and they say, what is being asked of me? And and sometimes they ask, and then they're still not sure if they really truly have the blessing to go forward in that manner. And I was just, you know, having a conversation with somebody the other day where they gave advice to the interim person to make sure just do it, like, do the job, do the job. If they told you to do the job, go do the job as if it is your permanent role. And that's where people become happiest with the interim placement can be particularly in those moments, right, where it's like we've still continue to feel that we're full steam ahead. We know not everything can be that way, but we're trying to really make continuous gains and so on in that respect. So I

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:34]: think that also brings up kind of this third element of interim leadership, which is some interim leaders are, in fact, auditioning for the first for the full time position as they're in their interim process. Some of them know that they are, and some of them don't. So, Jen, in particular, I'm wondering if you have any observations or advice for those that are hoping to transition from that interim to the permanent position, whether it be through competitive search or placement.

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:19:00]: I think number one is having a very honest and upfront conversation with the hiring authority, right, or the boss to make at the very beginning, to make sure that you know, will you be considered for that role, should you decide to raise your hand for it? And when I say should you will you be considered, I mean truly, truly considered for that opportunity. Right? That is sometimes a very hard answer for a sitting leader to give. They give the standard, absolutely, I would welcome your engagement in this process when let's just be really honest, there are times where they're saying that out loud and at the end of the day, they probably really don't mean that. And so it's important, I think, to revisit that conversation throughout the process and to be as transparent as you can be with that leader, particularly if your mind shifts. Right? Like, I've seen a lot of folks where they'll say, initially, I have zero interest in doing this job full time. I absolutely do not wanna be the senior student affairs officer or whatever the role is. Right? And so I wanna go back to my gig. And then they get a taste of the gig, and they're like, actually, I do wanna do that.

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:20:14]: Right? And so as your mind changes and shifts and so on, again, transparency there with your leader and then continuing to know, is this something that you actually think that you might seriously consider me for? Because there's a it's a lot to think about. I mean, as folks are beginning to really enjoy you as a leader, if something were to shift and change where maybe you didn't think you were gonna do it and now you are gonna go for it. But for whatever reason, leadership might have other needs where they do need an external person even though you're doing an amazing job. You wanna be able to think about how are you gonna exit out of this with grace and a plow and all those good things. So, yeah, that I think is my best advice in that seat. But I'm always pleasantly surprised at how many individuals come back and say, I didn't think I wanted to do this and now I love it. It's sort of like our faculty colleagues where they're like, I'm happy doing my research and I love it and all of a sudden they get bit by the administrative bug and they're like, I had no no idea I was really good at this. Right? So I always encourage people to take the opportunity.

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:21:17]: It's a new, interesting, wonderful thing. Anytime you get to even if it's only temporary to pull in another area or layer or role or whatever it might be into your portfolio and expertise.

Dr. Leanna Fenneberg [00:21:28]: One additional thing to consider, Jen, might be that some placement search firms also prohibit you from being a candidate for the position. So as as you said, like, connecting with your supervisor, am I a viable candidate to be considered? Also, if you're doing an interim placement situation that you'll wanna know whether you could be a candidate for it or not.

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:21:48]: Exactly. Really great point there. Yeah. There's some of the firms, the placement firms out there who do interims. You're exactly right. They were require they actually it's part of the contract, right, that you are not going to be considered because there's pros to that. Right? There's pros to that sort of framework framing for them and so on. And then there's others where and Whitkiefer is one of the others where if you want to be considered for the role, it is possible that you could be considered within our our framing and contracts work.

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:22:15]: So, yeah, it's a that's a really great point, Liana. Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:18]: Liana, can you talk a little bit about the process of deciding that interim leadership was the right next step in your career as opposed to launching full into a permanent job search?

Dr. Leanna Fenneberg [00:22:29]: Oh, sure. Thank you. Well, as I mentioned, my position was eliminated, so I was on the market for any kind of job that would pay me and use my skills. So I cast a very wide net in considering I connected with a couple of search firms for placement opportunities and considered, like, should I do an interim role as well as launched straight into a full time job search. So I was kinda doing both simultaneously and considering and weighing all my possibilities. And at the time that interim placement that I accepted at Creighton surfaced, I was very in much in the infancy of a national search. So I had barely had any applications out, but knew that my primary goal as a mother of a teenage boy was to have full time employment as soon as possible and figure out what was going on with my life, if my family was relocating, everything. So full time employment was definitely what I was heading for, what my primary goal was, but the interim option was intriguing twofold.

Dr. Leanna Fenneberg [00:23:25]: One, in that, you know, I would be employed immediately and be able to, you know, pour into an institution after kind of a heartbreak from one. And two, I was really drawn to the institution and to my colleagues. So I had a personal connection through the Jesuit network, to Creighton University and the staff there. And so knowing that there was a need where it felt like my personality and my skills and my background were a fit, kind of felt like a compelling heart tug, if you will, to that position. So the biggest, decision for me was I would have to relocate and leave my family, for the period of the interim placement. I originally communicated with them that I was comfortable with a six month placement because I didn't wanna thwart my long term job search by putting off potential positions and searches that would be hiring during the academic year. And then all the stars aligned in terms of my search and the needs on the campus that I was able to stay for the academic year, and I think that that was rewarding and fulfilling both for me and for the campus to be able to see that through for the year. So the hardest part was, you know, deciding to leave my family and navigating and negotiating that.

Dr. Leanna Fenneberg [00:24:36]: One of the biggest one of the biggest needs that the campus had or at least how I perceived it was to have presence. They had a leader who was sick and was working virtually for about the year prior. And so I knew that physical presence was really important to the role and what would what I would bring for the year. And so I didn't go home a lot. I didn't work virtually at all except over Christmas break. So I knew that that was a commitment that I was gonna be on campus and be present most of the time. And I spent, say, three to four days a month traveling back home to my family. So that was the biggest challenge of, making the decision and navigating.

Dr. Leanna Fenneberg [00:25:12]: But I had a supportive family and supportive campus, and it all worked out.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:16]: And I have to give a shout out to Creighton University just because it's a namesake of my family. We have no affiliation with the university, but many of us have purchased things things from the bookstore over the years.

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:25:29]: Right. With your name.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:31]: Yeah. I got my mom a shirt that says Creighton Mom. She loves it. So

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:25:33]: But it's adorable.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:37]: Leanna, you mentioned not being able to travel home. But, Jen, I'm aware that a lot of interim placement contracts do afford going home on the regular basis as part of the agreement for the position. Can you tell us what that typically looks like?

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:25:50]: You know, I don't know all the details of that, to be honest, what that would look like. And, honestly, what I was thinking of was that I think it's negotiated as Leanna was saying as she was talking, like, I was thinking about it. I'm like, it's really negotiated on a situation by situation basis. Like, there are some interims where they're that they maybe don't need as much active participation. So there's more of a hybrid model in place. There are some just like Liana's where it's like, we need that person to be there that is very, very important, as part of it and so on. So it really is based on the current needs of that institution, what they're willing to negotiate or not negotiate. The other thing I that caught my attention when Liana was speaking was saying the time of the engagement.

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:26:39]: And so there was, like you said, six months, and I'm gonna make sure during that time, like, I'm not out searching. So dependent on and I think most of the ones that are negotiated within a firm probably are not hoping you're not gonna be out there looking simultaneously because you've made this commitment. But if you go and make that, have that connection point and do the conversation on a on a one on one basis, right, without the support of a firm, they might, you know, be fully in favor of saying go ahead and continue your search and we will be fully supportive and you can, you know, assuming you're doing great work here, we're gonna put you on the reference list, and we're happy to do that for you and so on. So, right, it just depends on what the needs of that institution are, the length of it, and so on, and and the type of leader that they're looking for, what they may or may not be able to negotiate for the particular circumstance. And I think based on Leanna and I's conversations with other colleagues, there's no one way to do it in every again, every institution is very different.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:42]: So let's ask the big question, which is how do I find an interim placement if I think that might be right for me? Liana, you mentioned yours was kind of networking and word-of-mouth, and we've talked that there are some formal opportunities to throw your name in. But where do I even begin to look?

Dr. Leanna Fenneberg [00:27:56]: I'm happy to start with the, networking approach because I also have some colleagues who are doing the same thing right now in similar situations, and they're just, you know, leveraging their network and saying, hey. I'm it's almost like on LinkedIn, open to work. Whatever that is within your close circle and or more broadly on social media to own your narrative and and tell people what you're open to and what you're looking for and leverage your network to find opportunities. And so that's how I found my opportunity. And, again, I have another colleague who just got placed in an interim role similarly. So, I think that that's certainly one informal or or, more personalized way outside of a search firm, but Jen can probably highlight that strategy.

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:28:37]: Yeah. So as far as working with firms who do placement, like, the names the the name that most people know is the registry in this space, but then, obviously, Whit Kiefer is working in this area too. And, again, different firms approach it in different ways as far as, like, will you be available to apply for the role long haul or not. Right? So different people because of that framing will will maybe go to different firms at different times because of just where their career is and what they wanna do. But for us, and and I know for the registry, right, it's a matter of simply reaching out and looking for the interim space and saying, I wanna be a part of your interim pool, if you will. At Wake Kiefer, often I'll have colleagues reach out and say, hey, I'm thinking of this down the line or maybe not even down the line, like, right, just sort of exploring it and putting my name out there. And I'll say, well, go ahead and fill out the form online, and I'm gonna definitely let our colleagues know that, you know, we had connected about this and and what it turns into is having just an informational interview, right, where we learn more. We, as with Kiefer, learn more about you as a leader and what you're looking for.

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:29:39]: And then you're sort of part of the big Rolodex, if you will, right, as to who when a certain opportunity comes our way, who might we tap on the shoulder just the same way we do in search, say, who would potentially be a really, a good match at this moment in time for this opportunity. And then that's sort of how it moves forward from there. And, usually, what happens is, right, like, the firm will identify a number of candidates who are interested, who are free during whatever the and and interested in the parameters that the institution sets up for the work. They will reach out to them and and the candidates will apply, if you will. And then often that leads to conversation with hiring authorities and so on, and they make a decision very quickly. So that's the thing is it moves rapidly, and you need to be sort of prepared to if this moment isn't the right moment, then step out of that process or say it, not not this one quite yet. Right? Because they need to make sure that those who they're tapping on the shoulder for this opportunity really are ready and able to go because it is a very, very quick and much more quick process than obviously what we do in regular search, which could be months long in process. Any final thoughts on interim leadership or things that you'd love our listeners to know

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:52]: that we haven't talked about?

Dr. Leanna Fenneberg [00:30:54]: I'll share one thing that I think I went into the role a little tentative, like, sensitive to the nature of the situation and the role, but I found over time that I regretted not going in more fully. So I feel like sometimes people feel like, well, I'm just here as an interim, and so I don't know what I should do or not do. But, really, you know, you're hired in that role for your expertise, for your role, for your leadership. Enter it fully. Enter, like, with the full heart and full work. And I'll give you an example, Jill, because I kinda felt like I was probably in 70% into student events and, like, my level of presence with students than when I would be on a permanent campus, if you will. And so I felt like, well, I don't know. These students probably don't want me to

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:38]: invest in them. I'm only here for a minute,

Dr. Leanna Fenneberg [00:31:38]: and then I'm leaving. But after conversations with students at events, especially events with underrepresented students where they saw me there, they did value it. They I was a new face. Yes. But they valued me and my role being there and being present and fully immersed. And so, like, as I continued to get that affirmation that, like, oh, okay. I do have a presence or a role here beyond, like, my inhibitions. I think I was able to lean in a little more fully.

Dr. Leanna Fenneberg [00:32:04]: So that would be my advice if someone enters the role to just go on in and do it fully.

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:32:09]: Full steam ahead. Right? Totally.

Dr. Leanna Fenneberg [00:32:10]: Yeah. I mean, I fell so in love with my campus community and with my students, with my colleagues there. You know, like, I absolutely loved my time, and I feel like I absolutely loved my time. And I feel like I fell, so much in love that it was, like, as much as you've been at a campus for five or ten or twenty years that you can do that in a quick time frame.

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:32:28]: Well, and Liana is so wonderful her social media. I loved watching her in that role, really engaging. It was it was just fantastic to see her, you know, thriving in that environment and so on. So, I think my advice is very similar. Lean in. Full steam ahead. Go for it. Do it.

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:32:44]: It's your JOB. Let's go. Right? You know, like, I think that it's yours. This is not you are not a placeholder. I think I think people who don't jump in and really make it their own and help to help to leave even a little bit of a mark like that that's a mistake. And I'm talking both, you know, as if you're coming externally and if you're coming, from the internal space. Use it as a time to continue to obviously share all the great knowledge and experience that you've had over your career, but also to pick up the new pieces that you've never been able to do before maybe in your previous roles. Right? We're always trying to build our own toolkit of skills and abilities and and experiences and so on.

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:33:27]: So, you know, really think about those and leverage them as much as you can because why not in this moment? Right? Like, it's it's it's probably only gonna be a win at the end of the day. So I think that for sure. And then I just think also that the experience and knowledge, the way that you can help your colleagues to see something from a different lens, to experience it's okay for us to maybe change the way we've always done things, right, and bring that voice from the outside that's really inquisitive. But really, you know the answer, but you're asking questions because you're trying to help them get to the same realization about sync and that that it is okay to change. It is okay to you know, that change management and leadership part in that way, I think can be really, really impactful and empowering to, a division or, you know, a group of whoever your teammate, whatever type of interim role that you're doing. So be super inquisitive, ask a lot of questions that maybe seem obvious, but you're asking them not so much for yourself, but for them to help them as as Leanna said, to get that mirror and see themselves back and to help them improve.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:35]: Let's move into our theme questions for the season. Again, we're talking about the past, present, and future of student affairs. And I have one question on each area. So let's start with the past. What's one component of the history of student affairs that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively to let go of?

Dr. Leanna Fenneberg [00:34:51]: I'll start with the foundation of the field that has, like, a foundational developmental perspective on students. I mean, I feel like that's going to be an evergreen component of, like, who we are as a field and where we go. Of course, it has evolved. So if you talk about things that we're getting rid of, like, yes, much of the research originally was on, you know, white men, and it's evolved existentially to involve the diversity of our students, and will continue to do so. But the framework of, you know, taking student affairs from a developmental holistic student success perspective, I think, needs to continue to be centered.

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:35:28]: I would agree with that and also maybe add on a little bit. So the interweaving of student affairs and student success looks different on every campus. Yet, at the end of the day, it all comes down to the holistic development of student. And so that, I think we need to be better experts at what that looks like too and how you're how we're supporting students on both the student affairs and student success sides of things. So that is something I've thought about very much during my University of Arizona days and all the way through now. And I think, you know, some campuses do it much better than others. And some campuses lean into what that work looks like and how it shifts in different places and then others, let it become a barrier between them in the same way that we, you know, have barriers between our perhaps faculty colleagues at times. Right? And it's it it makes me sad when I see that, those barriers coming up when we're all trying to really do our best for students.

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:36:25]: So I think that that as well. Moving into the present, what's happening

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:29]: in the field right now that's going well for student affairs?

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:36:32]: I would say that our increased visibility after COVID or during COVID has sustained at majority of places that I work with, the majority of our colleges and institutions that I work with. And so, again, that partnership has been actualized in a new way is that voice is staying stronger at the table.

Dr. Leanna Fenneberg [00:36:53]: Yeah. I would agree with that, Jen. I mean, I think student affairs professionals often feel like, their work is minimized, right, in comparison with other areas of the university and certainly academics, which is central. But fundamentally, I believe that campuses see the value of student affairs work and the contributions. It doesn't always feel it in everyday moments, I mean, every meeting, but the value of student affairs, if you look at the emerging strategic plans at the university levels and you look at commitments to student success, I think it's there.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:27]: And looking towards the future, in an ideal world, what does the field need to do to thrive towards the future?

Dr. Leanna Fenneberg [00:37:33]: Wow. Well, Jill, I thought you were gonna ask about the present, like, current challenges. Right? So I think that the in my mind, the current challenges are what we need to get a handle on for the future. You know? And a couple of those challenges that come to mind most fervently are cost containment being our fiscal situations at the university, which are ever present, and the current sociopolitical moment, anti DEI legislation and dismantling of DEI, which is so core to the work of student affairs and serving a diverse student body and helping them thrive. And I think both of those, as we look towards the future, those are things we need to be able to manage and continue to create vision around and lead through the challenges so that we can continue to support and thrive in the core of our work and our purpose.

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:38:22]: And I would say the building our pipeline. Right? How are we continuing to build the pipeline? How how are we preparing students in our or sorry. Not students, but young professionals and mid level professionals in their preparation programs, in their Dr.al programs, or EDD programs. How are we keeping excitement going around the field even in these difficult times? And so there's a lot of options out there for people these days. And we know how much churn has happened in recent years within student affairs and so on. So we really need to keep our eye on that development of the pipeline, and I think that we're doing a good job or at least I feel like we're doing a good job from where from my seat. Right? As I see folks moving into the AVP level and then above or even even honestly the director, executive director level. But I worry about will that keep coming at the rate if that pipeline is not carefully attended to at the early level, you know, newer professional and mid level areas.

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:39:28]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:34]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's so much happening in NASPA. Thank you to everyone who voted in the annual NASPA leadership elections, which closed on February 11. NASPA is thrilled to announce that we have new leaders that will be joining us in the near future that will be joining our NASPA board of directors. Our board chair elect is Darryl Holliman, vice president for student affairs at Spelman College. Region one director, Will Johnson, associate vice president and dean of students at Fairfield University. Region three director, Juan Guardia. Vice president for student affairs at Texas a and m San Antonio.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:13]: Region four WEST director, Cassie Gerhardt, senior associate vice president for student affairs at the University of North Dakota, and region six director, Derek Vergara, dean of students, Orange Coast College. Congratulations to all of our incoming directors that will be starting their terms in 2026. And we are really looking forward to your leadership and voices at the board table. As we prepare for the NASPA annual conference, NASPA is always looking to honor those individuals who may have retired from the profession or those who have passed at the NASPA annual business meeting during the annual conference. To do this, we need your help to ensure that we include student affairs educators who have made an impact on the profession from entering individuals, assisting students, and making a difference in higher education. NASPA would also like to recognize any NASPA volunteer roles in which these individuals participated and or and or leadership positions that they might have held. Over the last few weekly updates that you have been emailed as a NASPA member, you will have seen a link where you can honor a colleague. I highly encourage you to take the time to fill fill out that form and let us know more about these people so that we can recognize them accordingly.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:32]: In an earlier episode this season, Claire Brady was a guest on our show, and she mentioned and talked about the new NASPA report entitled The Transformative Potential of Artificial Intelligence, Recommendations for Student Affairs Leaders. This report examines the transformative role of artificial intelligence in student affairs, demonstrating its potential to personalize student interactions, automate routine processes, and leverage data insights for informed decision making. AI presents unprecedented opportunities to enhance the student experience. The report emphasizes essential ethical principles such as transparency, equity, and data stewardship, guiding leaders toward responsible AI adoption. With real world examples and a phased implementation framework, it provides actionable strategies for integrating AI as a strategic partner in promoting student success while honoring the human connections central to meaningful educational experiences. Designed to support student affairs leaders, this report serves as a guide for implementing AI in ways that advance institutional effectiveness without compromising core educational values. Beginning with an exploration of ethical considerations and the alignment of AI initiatives with strategic goals, it underscores a human centered approach and the importance of professional development. The report also offers a structured framework for AI integration, highlighting current use cases that demonstrate early success and forecasting applications set to impact the future of student affairs.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:09]: This practical phased approach balances innovation with ethical stewardship, fostering a sustainable path for impactful AI adoption in higher education. If you have not yet downloaded this powerful guide, I highly encourage you to do so. It is available on the NASPA website under white papers, and you have an opportunity to be able to learn so much by delving into this report. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit, where do you wanna give back. Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:44:27]: I see myself doing something like that, or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association, and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:57]: Chris, thank you so much for keeping us informed on what's going on in and around NASPA, and we have finally reached our lightning round part of the show. I have seven questions for you to answer in ninety seconds. Ready to go?

Dr. Leanna Fenneberg [00:45:11]: Yes. Alrighty.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:12]: Question one. If you were a conference keynote speaker,

Dr. Leanna Fenneberg [00:45:14]: what would your entrance music be? Walking on Sunshine.

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:45:17]: Mine would be Don't Stop Me Now by Queen.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:19]: Number two, when you were five years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up? Teacher. A nun. Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Leanna Fenneberg [00:45:28]: I'm gonna go with Kent Porterfield, who is the VP at Gonzaga University, but was my VP when I decided to explore the SSAO role.

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:45:37]: I would say the fabulous Dr. Susan Komovest, Melissa Vito, and Patty Perilla.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:43]: Number four, your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Leanna Fenneberg [00:45:45]: I'm gonna say multicultural competence and student affairs.

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:45:48]: Okay. Because I'm a dork, and I love organizational structure and stuff like that. Mine has always been the ADP book, by, Jason Pena and Amy Hackt. AVP leading from the unique role of the associate and assistant vice president. And now they have their new book, which I still need to read is The Next Act, Realigning Your Mindset, Purpose, and Career.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:10]: Number five, the best TV show you've been binging lately. Wait, Lotus?

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:46:13]: Oh, I've heard about that one. Mine would be Dairy Girls and eighteen eighty three.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:19]: Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Leanna Fenneberg [00:46:22]: Well, this one. Yeah.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:26]: We always appreciate that. And finally, number seven. Any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional?

Dr. Leanna Fenneberg [00:46:32]: I'll shout out to my husband who makes my role in student affairs be able to be maintained because he carries the weight at home.

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:46:41]: I will give a shout out just to my fabulous colleagues at Wit Kiefer. We have a wonderful, wonderful group of folks who are a a number of student affairs professionals originally, and I just love having those individuals around me all the time.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:55]: This has been such an incredible conversation on interim leadership. I'm sure our listeners would love to follow-up with you with questions. If they would like to reach you, how can they find you?

Dr. Leanna Fenneberg [00:47:04]: You can find me on LinkedIn, Liana Fenenberg.

Dr. Jen Myers Pickard [00:47:06]: Same for me, Jen Pickard on LinkedIn as well as anyone who's welcome to reach out to me directly at jpickard@wickkefir.com. Liana and Jen, thank you both so much for sharing your voice with us today. Thanks. Thank you. Appreciate it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:25]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners, and we continue to be grateful that you spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at SAvoices@NASPA.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and please leave us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever students affairs professionals find our show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:04]: Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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Harnessing Professional Longevity and Growth

Dr. Michael N. Christakis’s remarkable twenty-six-year journey at the University at Albany showcases a rare career longevity within a single institution in the realm of student affairs. From his early beginnings in housing and residence life to becoming the Vice President for Student Affairs and Enrollment Management, Dr. Christakis exemplifies staying power through adaptability and curiosity. He credits his mentors, diverse professional opportunities, and openness to roles outside his comfort zone—such as spearheading student learning assessment initiatives—for his upward trajectory.

For student affairs professionals aspiring for growth within one institution, Dr. Christakis recommends saying yes to new challenges, pursuing intentional professional development, and embracing adaptability in the face of the ever-evolving needs of the student body and higher education. Maintaining a strong connection to institutional community and family priorities was also key to his decision to stay.

A Vision for NASPA Leadership

As the incoming NASPA board chair, Dr. Christakis aims to redefine how the field communicates its value. His focus? Ensuring student affairs professionals are positioned as pivotal leaders across crucial domains such as student health and well-being, belonging, diversity, equity, inclusion, career readiness, and social justice.

Reflecting on the lessons from the COVID-19 pandemic, he underscores the importance of advocating for student mental health and well-being. Yet, he voices concern about the profession’s tendency to take on an ever-expanding workload without prioritizing its own balance. Dr. Christakis encourages leaders to use data and strategic thinking to demonstrate their impact effectively, ensuring critical student success metrics, like retention and graduation rates, tie back to student affairs.

Future Challenges: Balancing Policy and Wellness

In light of turbulent political shifts, including policies affecting diversity efforts and marginalized communities, NASPA must remain proactive and informed. Dr. Christakis highlights NASPA’s commitment to equipping professionals with the tools and knowledge to navigate these volatile times.

Additionally, he believes the profession must address its own sustainability by centering the health and well-being of student affairs practitioners. With professionals at the forefront of addressing wide societal challenges, their mental and emotional wellness becomes essential to their ability to support students.

Conclusion: A Call for Strategic Advocacy

Dr. Christakis’s leadership philosophy emphasizes the opportunity to reframe student affairs as a transformational force within higher education. Through intentional data-informed storytelling, commitment to personal and collective health, and adaptive leadership, he invites the field to seize its moment to lead. As he steps into his new role, the NASPA community can expect a purposeful and forward-thinking year ahead under his guidance.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:42]: And since his arrival to the university in 1999, he served in numerous positions in student affairs, having served as AVP for student affairs prior to his appointments as VP. As a member of the vice president's staff since 02/2007, Christakis developed assessment and evaluation practices, improved the effectiveness of divisional planning, professional development, communications, and risk management, and provided oversight to critical campus life areas. He was elected to be our NASPA board chair in spring twenty twenty four, and we'll assume his full role as NASPA board chair in New Orleans at our annual conference this March. Additionally, he's most recently served as chair of the Association for Public and Land Grant Universities, APLU's, Council on Student Affairs. Previously, he served as regional director for NASPA region two, while concurrently serving on NASPA's board of directors. He's a past national president of Omicron Delta Kappa's National Leadership Honor Society and past national cochair of NASPA's assessment evaluation and research knowledge community. He currently serves as the president of the board for the University of Auxiliary Services at University of Albany. A fellow of the State Academy for Public Administration, he was appointed for public service professor in 2013 and teaches undergraduate courses in public policy, public administration, and political science for which he was honored with Rockefeller College's Outstanding Teacher Award in 2010 and the University of Albany's student association's outstanding teacher in 2014.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:59]: Mike, welcome to SA Voices.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:02:02]: Hello, Jill. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:03]: Good to see you again. It's been a minute probably since last annual.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:02:06]: Annual is always a reunion for me. So getting a chance to see you and so many others at the annual meeting is is always a treat.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:12]: Yes. And we are recording this in early February. By the time listeners do hear this, you might be on a plane on the way to New Orleans or

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:02:20]: Heading to NOA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:21]: Or watching through virtual sessions or however you're accessing conference content this year. But, Mike, we're thrilled to talk to you today about your role as incoming NASPA board chair. You will take over the gavel, in just a couple of weeks here. We know you've been preparing thoroughly for this as the year has gone by as the chair elect seat. But we always like to start our shows by asking our guests, how did you get to your current seat at Albany as well as your seat in the NASPA board?

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:02:46]: Yeah. What a ride it's been. So to the seat that I'm in now, I've been at the university at Albany. I'm actually in my twenty sixth year, celebrated twenty five years in the fall. I got to UAlbany as a grad student in the fall of ninety nine studying public policy and did not think then that I would be in the VP for student affairs seat here, but things happen. And so Albany has been very good to me and my family, and and I'm a two time alum having my master's degree and my PhD here. But I started in housing. I was a housing guy through my undergraduate time.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:03:19]: I was an RA for three years. My undergraduate institution, I did my undergraduate work at Alfred University, which is really where I got first exposed to student affairs or to understanding that student affairs was a thing. I'm a first gen college student. My parents are both immigrants from Greece, and so I was the first of my family to go to college. Didn't think working at a college was something you could do in this kind of way. And so had some really great mentors at Alfred University, including the vice president for student affairs and dean of students, Jerry Brody, at the the time, who mentored me throughout. And had residence hall directors who were supervisors of mine, had mentors in student activities. Shout out to Trish DeBertelis, who was very instrumental in her role as director of the campus center at the time at at Alfred in exposing me to what you could do in student affairs.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:04:03]: And so when I was about to graduate, was looking at grad programs, but was also sort of conscientious to the fact that I could maybe work in student affairs as a graduate assistant in this case and help pay for school, quite honestly. And so that's how I sort of entered the field, for lack of a better way of framing it. And then one thing led to another. I was a graduate hall director for a couple of years here, got my master's degree, ended up becoming a full time hall director for a year, led our first year experience program in the early 2000s, which feels like forever ago. In some ways, maybe before it was a thing. And then transitioned to leaving our apartment housing and actually building a 1,200 bed apartment complex in 02/2001, '2 thousand and '2. Did that for about five or six years, and then there were some transitions in the vice president's office in terms of leadership and was called by, at the time, the interim vice president on a Friday afternoon, I remember fairly vividly, inviting me to come to the office. And I remember my assistant at the time, Linda Rogers, says to me, you're gonna get an opportunity.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:05:06]: And I was like, I don't know I don't know why you're thinking that. And she was like, well, you know, why would they call you on a Friday afternoon to go to the VP's office?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:12]: There's really only two reasons there.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:05:14]: Yeah. I know. I know. It's I something's with the promotional opportunity. But, you know, Linda was right. And Chris Bouchard, who I'm I'm continue to be grateful for, offered me an opportunity to come to the VP's Office as assistant vice president. She was about to become interim VP, and she asked me to sort of lead couple of initiatives. One was assessment, which is really when I got sort of cut my teeth on assessment and student affairs at the time.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:05:33]: This was in 02/2007. One was risk management, and the other one was in communications. And so made the move to the VP's office in 02/2007. And then, you know, one thing sort of led to another and was assistant to the VP for a while, became an assistant VP. And then we had some retirements, and I was asked to take on the associate VP role, which I did for, I think, maybe two months before Chris announced she was retiring. And Robert Jones, at the time, who was president at the University of Albany, invited me to serve as interim VP, which I happily accepted. You know, at that point, I was completely drinking the purple and gold Kool Aid here at U Albany and was deeply committed to our students and our team in student affairs. And so did that on an interim basis for a few months, and then fairly quickly, Robert was gracious enough to to offer me the full time opportunity, and that was in 02/2015.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:06:19]: And so I've been in the c for ten years now, which is also a little bit like, is it really ten years? Because a lot's happened in ten years at UAlbany, but in higher education in general. That's sort of the the student affairs, UAlbany path. My next path actually replicates some of that because in o seven so before I actually moved to the VP's office when I was in housing, I had approached Betty Simmons and Charlie Fay at the time, both who are leaders in Region 2. And at the time, I think they were still regional VPs. This this goes back to previous governance models. But I had approached them both during the annual conference in Washington, DC, which I think was in o six, and had said to them, hey. You know, I'm Mike. I'm an assistant director of housing at UAlbany.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:07:06]: I'd love to be the two thousand seven region two conference chair. And they're both like

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:13]: Whole noob.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:07:13]: Like, who is this guy? And so they didn't accept the offer immediately to their credit, but I made a case. We made a proposal. I had a couple of colleagues here at Albany who I was working with. We had a team of of four or five newish professionals who were into getting involved with NASPA. We were, I think, hungry for that connection for the field outside of just the University of Albany. And Charlie Fay, who ultimately ended up being the the incoming regional VP or regional director, was like, yeah. Let's do this. And so my opening salvo into NASPA work was as chair of the regional conference, which I I don't necessarily recommend as the place to start.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:07:50]: I think there's other ways to get into this without having to go to be the regional chair of the conference, but it was a great way to sort of expose to get exposed to everything that the region was doing and the regional board and the programs we were doing for mid level mid level managers and NASPA undergraduate fellows and SSAOs. And we had a very successful conference, I'm proud to say, in Albany, Two Hundred plus participants, and it continues to be a highlight of my career. And so that was how I got into the NASPA sort of ecosystem as a volunteer. And then I stayed on the board after I rolled off as as NASPA regional two conference chair, did corporate relations for a little bit in terms of getting sponsorship for the conference, was the regional NUF coordinator. So was was very committed to the NUF program, continue to be. Look. I've got a NUF fellow again, this semester, and then we're hosting three NUF interns again this summer. That's been a big part of what we do at UAlbany.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:08:47]: And then had eased into a couple of other roles, including MMI, the Mid Managers Institute, which I helped co facilitate with Lynette Cook Francis at the time, who was a colleague, and then became regional director, which was also just a real highlight for me. And then, you know, sort of eased out of it was past regional director, SSAO liaison for the region for a period of time. And then the NASPA board chair sort of arose and was really honored to be considered and thrilled to have been elected to this. I'm deeply, deeply humbled by the opportunity. So that's sort of the story. They're they're sort of concurrent tracks, though, I think, in a lot of ways.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:19]: I think it's pretty rare in student affairs to spend your whole career at one institution, maybe within one region or within the same state or major metropolitan area, but same institution, we really don't see that often. Can you tell us why and how you were able to choose to stay? Because I think a lot of us in the field have kind of adopted the mantra of to move up, you have to move. Yeah. But you were a bit of an anomaly that you didn't have to do that in some ways. Sounds like you said yes to a lot of things. But what do you have in terms of advice for people who want to have that longevity of career with also growth elements attached to it?

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:09:53]: Yeah. Great question. And it's funny. There was a book that is coming out or just came out that Jason Pena and Amy Hecht were editors for. And one of the chapters I wrote with a number of colleagues, including Pat Whiteley, who's also a long term serving VPSA at Miami. And when Jason had reached out Jason is a friend. He reached out about me writing the chapter. He's like, hey.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:10:17]: You know, Mike, I'd like you to work on this chapter about being a long term VPSA at your institution. And I'm like, long term VPSA? Like, how am I long term? I guess I've not been anywhere. You know, it's worth me like, when you're in it, I don't know if you fully realize it. And then somebody points it out, and then you're putting the same sort of Pat Whiteley, who I have tremendous amount of respect for. I'm like, I'm running with Pat. I mean, Pat's like an institution. Right? And Shannon Ellis was was a coauthor as well. I mean and as I was writing that portion of the chapter, it allowed me to reflect on it.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:10:47]: And I think a lot of it is what you sort of suggested. It's trying to sort of take advantage of opportunities at the institution. And I am very fortunate in that since I got here, there have been mentors and supervisors who have provided these opportunities that I may not have otherwise have gotten. And I think some of it is my own desire to learn and to experience things that really are outside of my comfort zone. I noted during my sort of professional journey cutting my teeth on assessment. Assessment was not something that I had really even considered doing as a career element. Although, you know, in retrospect now, I think that, you know, in as much as I introduce myself as a housing guy, because I I do believe that's where I started, I think that there's also a a a portion of my career that really is a student affairs assessment person, and I take tremendous pride in that. I had a conversation couple months ago with the NASPA assessment evaluation research knowledge community of which I co led for a period of time as national cochair.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:11:51]: And I think that that experience in leading student affairs assessment at UAlbany was very developmental for me, but I wouldn't have had it had my vice president at the time not said, there's a need the division has because we were coming up on a reaccreditation, and I'd like you to be the one to guide us through that. And I think in that moment, I could have been like, well, you know, Chris, I I don't know the first thing about it. Right? So I'm out. And I didn't. You know, I was like, alright. Let me try to take in as much as I can about an area that I'm not familiar with. And so, you know, I was quite literally building the bike as I was riding it. And, you know, it was one of these things where I thought we were making more progress than we actually were.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:12:34]: I remember three or four years worth of me putting forward annual conference program proposals, underscoring how Albany had really transformed the assessment space. And every every gear, I I would get turned down. Because the reality was we actually in as much as I in my little bubble, I thought we were making inroads. I think, you know, the reviewers were like, oh, not really. I mean, you know, where where are you really at? And by the fourth year, when we actually did start to get looked at, you know, for precons at the I remember we would do a number of precons at the annual conference with a number of our team at UAlbany. We would go and sort of talk about how you do student learning outcomes and KPIs and the like. It did take some time to get us there, But I think that was also reflecting on it. That was my own development in in that space.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:13:18]: But it was, again, it was sort of saying yes to those to those opportunities. And so I like to learn. It sounds a little bit cliche, but I'm I'm a curious person. I I like to sort of know how things come to be. I remember we were dealing with was it an h one n one flu, something or other? And at the time, I was supervising the the student health center at Albany. And we had a tremendous medical director, doctor Pete Ballas. He this guy was he knew how to explain very technical medical things in the most easily understandable way. And I was like his wing person, quite honestly.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:13:58]: Like, you know, we would go and meet with the faculty senate or the deans to talk about how we were trying to manage what an outbreak might look like. And he would be able to say it in such a way, and then I would just be able to to do sort of the administrative stuff around it. I didn't know the first thing about it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:13]: Writing the playbook or how to respond to COVID. Correct.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:14:16]: Yeah. Exactly right. Yeah. Little do we know. Right? But I didn't know the first thing about medical or anything. And I never thought I'd be in that role, but the vice president at the time had asked me to sort of take on risk, which again, I didn't know what that meant exactly. And this was one of these things that she wanted me to work with Pete on. And so we did.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:14:33]: And it's those kinds of varied experiences that I think have kept me here, have allowed me to contribute to student life and to campus life more broadly at UAlbany to help, I think, continue to to grow the institution and support our students. And so, you know, could I have gone someplace else? You know, maybe I could've. I mean, at some point, I'll also acknowledge that my partner, Krista, and I have got three daughters. And, you know, it's important for us that we're in a really great community, here in Albany, and we really wanted to to stay here. And so was it was was it something where there was a job that was so great that I'd wanna go there and uproot, you know, where our three kids are involved in a great school and soccer and dance and girl scouts? Yeah. Not really. And so those are all intentional decisions that we made, and I've got no regrets on any of it. Like I said, I've grown professionally at UAlbany.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:15:22]: I was I was a grad assistant in in the fall of ninety nine. And talking to you now, and I'm I'm the VP for student affairs and enrollment, which which is pretty cool, which is pretty cool as a first gen college grad. So, you know, I'll take it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:32]: Let's switch over to NASPA. You're the incoming board chair. You will be at the helm of the board for the coming year ahead. The NASPA year is March to March. Annual conferences are shift over time. And can you tell us what does it mean to be the board chair in 2025?

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:15:48]: When I was running for the you know, you do the board chair elect and then the board chair. So when I was running for the position, I feel like the higher ed landscape looked a little bit different than it does today. And that's not to say we weren't gonna be confronted with challenges. I think we certainly were. I just don't again, probably like your crystal ball. My crystal ball has not been working all that great, you know, these days. But I do think that even when I was making the case for my candidacy, I'm very interested And what I mean by And what I mean by that is we're reflecting a bit on where we were, let's say, five years ago at this time as we were coming on to a global pandemic in COVID. There was clearly on most college campuses, there was clearly a role student affairs staff were playing in helping support our students, their their health, their well-being, their academic success.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:16:49]: And at the time, there were ACE reports, the American Council of Education, the interviews they do with presidents that said, you know, what are the what are your top concerns or priorities? And at that time, probably during that six month period between the outbreak and and when we were getting a vaccine, it was it was student mental health was item number one, which I don't really think up to that point, college presidents were calling out student mental health as the number one priority. Now, if we reflect on the work that we were doing in student affairs, and again, I think that you all were waiting for two plus decades, student health and well-being has always been a priority for us. That's not new. And I think you could probably go across the country and talk to student affairs professionals at small private institutions, large public, and anything in between. And mental health, student health and well-being was always something that we were trying to prioritize. At that particular moment, as we were dealing with with the pandemic, it was made a priority by institutional leaders. And so we had an opportunity in student affairs to lean in on that. Think some of the challenge quite honestly, though, Jill, was that we were also, in a lot of ways, doing so many other things at the institution.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:17:59]: We were I'm just gonna say, you know, what we were doing at UAlbany. Right? I I still remember Thanksgiving getting my PPE on and going and delivering Thanksgiving meals to 200 some odd students that we had in isolation housing at the time, because that's what we were doing. We were trying to figure out when the vaccine was gonna roll out, how we were gonna deliver vaccinations to students. We were still sort of trying to figure out when we were gonna come back that following fall, what masking looked like. So, yeah, in as much as it would have been great if we could just exclusively really double down on, yeah, let's really talk about mental health because this is something that we really think is critical to a student's success and well-being, not just now during a pandemic, but in general, we were being pulled as we often are in student affairs in many different directions. And so for me, as I was thinking about my candidacy and my service to the association as board chair, was how do we how do we get to a place where on our campuses, student affairs is viewed as the leader in a handful of areas that I think we are uniquely positioned to lead in. And health and well-being is among them. Health and well-being is among them.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:19:05]: Issues around belonging, DI, social justice are among them. Right? And and I get, you know, we've got we at UAlbany, and I know that DI is under attack across the country right now. But, you know, UAlbany, I'm fortunate to have a chief diversity officer who is an important, partner in what we do. And and it's not, you know, what the the CDO does versus what the senior student affairs officer does. It's what we do together in this space. Right? I mean, we can probably sit here and talk about twenty some odd years ago when I was an assistant hall director. I was doing DEI work in the residence halls. At a time before, we actually had a a sort of a a dedicated CDO in in the way we do now.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:19:42]: So student affairs have long been doing this kind of work. Career readiness and preparation is an area. Right? And I know that we can get into sort of the nuances of where career development offices sit, and it's one of these areas that is sometimes in student affairs and sometimes it's in academic affairs and sometimes it's in advancement. But if it is in a position where it sits in or close to student affairs, we really should try to double down in that space. How are what are we doing to prepare students for career? And it goes beyond just sort of the resume prep. It's critical thinking and and sort of the kinds of things that that we are positioned to do in the work we support outside of the classroom as well. And so that's where I really wanna get our members confident in being able to make the case on their campuses that I've got this. I'm a student affairs professional, and I've got this.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:20:28]: You gotta trust me on this one. And I don't know if that's where we're at everywhere that that we are. And I think that NASPA is uniquely positioned to provide resources and support at all levels of our association, whether it's the new professional or senior student affairs officer or faculty members who are teaching in the student affairs space to sort of crystallize the impact that student affairs has on a college student's trajectory. And we need to call that out probably more assertively than we have before because there is tremendous value in what we do as professionals, that help support that help support students. And I think short of us calling it out, I'm not sure I don't know if others are going to. And so that's where I think, certainly together with with, Amelia Parnell, who's our who's our new NASPA president and and the board, we're we're in a good position to to do that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:25]: I was having a conversation on the pod last season with, doctor Mexagawa, who was a distinguished pillar recently. He and I were having the same conversation that student affairs, because we're so admired in the day to day work of actually supporting and helping students and doing the student success initiatives and literally just getting through our days, that we often don't have the capacity to tell our story. And that is something that we need to figure out. And so Mike's advice was to tell our story, not just on our campuses, but in our communities and beyond. And I thought that was a really interesting take because we don't necessarily do that well. And so telling our story not only to our communities within the campus, but also beyond the campus. Do you have any colleagues that you'd like to shout out who are doing this particularly well?

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:22:07]: I'll call out Lamar Hilton, who's the current he's a regional director. He's at Indiana University. You know, he's he's done, I think, great work. I'm biased. Lars, a a very good friend of mine, but I think he's done amazing work in leading the division there. But I think he's also done amazing work in championing the work that his the student life does at Indiana as a transformational partner. And I say that both in my sort of conversations with Lamar, but I think also just in in sort of watching him on on Instagram, if you follow him. I think you see the he's out in the community.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:22:36]: He's on campus. He's at athletic events. He's underscoring the impact that student affairs can have in student life and student success. And I think that's really critically important. But I really appreciate the comment you made that Mike had referenced about sort of the narrative and the story. And I think that's where we're challenged by that. I mean, I think that in my twenty five, twenty six years in student affairs, and I and I say this to our team here all the time, we're not inclined to ever stop doing something. We're always inclined to do something more.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:23:05]: And the reality is we only have so much capacity. I think that's a comment you made, Jill. Right? There's only so many things we can actually reasonably do, and there's only so many things we can actually reasonably do well. And, you know, that's that's where I've challenged our team here at at UAlbany. We're going through a strategic planning process now for the division. And I've said to them, we cannot continue to be doing more with less. We've really got to be thinking about ways that identify impact programs that really do tie to metrics that are of importance in the national landscape. And student success is an area that I think increasingly higher ed associations are zeroed in, not as I think we should be.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:23:49]: I think issues around retention, persistence, graduation, and outcomes are. In this particular climate now, when you're talking about whether it's return on investment or impact or the value of higher education, we've got to be able to point to where we are having an impact on these these national these are national metrics. Right? Retention is not new. It's been around for a very long time. But I think how does our work positively impact student retention and persistence and graduation rates? And And this is where I then revert back into the the assessment role, which I and when given the opportunity, I didn't fully understand it. But having now done it for fifteen, almost twenty years, this is where data does matter for us. And this is where I really do think that having Amelia Parnell in the president's state puts NASPA in a very strong position. If anybody my first interactions with Amelia were in the the assessment space.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:24:50]: She was VP at NASPA. I was the the the co chair for the assessment evaluation research KC with Gina Masterdecasa was my co chair from Florida. But that's where we began to sort of interact on these issues around data and calling out impact. And so I think what I'm excited about is in as much as higher education is under the microscope and in some ways maybe under attack and there's questioning the value of it, I think what we have is data we can point to. And it's trying to get our colleagues to know what that data is and how to present it to get at the very narrative. I think, that that, Mike Sagawa was talking about when you guys had the conversation. Data is an important part to the narrative. Yeah.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:25:37]: The anecdotal stories are really great. Right? And they can they can they can really, I think, make a compelling argument. But when you really begin to call out impact on again, I keep on sort of saying retention, persistence, graduation, because those are national metrics that we all know exist. But particularly how student affairs units are pouring into that, that I think is where the rubber meets the road. I'll also point out Danita Brown Young, who's the vice chancellor student affairs at the University of Illinois Urbana Champaign. Just to the question before Jill about folks who have, I think, done a nice job on making the case. Danita's division does impact college, which they call college impact reports. And what these reports do or for the multiple colleges that that exist at Illinois or Urbana Champaign, and I don't know the exact number.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:26:22]: Danita's division puts together an impact report that calls out data points as it relates to students from that respective college. And Danita then works with her team to engage the deans and the the school and college leadership on an annual basis to talk about those impact points. Right? That to me is a great way of calling out impact across the units that are under Danita's leadership at at Illinois. And so we're trying to do the same thing at Albany. Right? Full credits to Danita. Right? But we're trying to do the same thing here. We're trying to do college impact reports where our assessment team and student affairs are looking through the units that we've got and are pulling data impact points that we can then that I can go and meet with the Dean of Arts and Sciences and say, hey, well, if you're the largest academic unit at UAlbany, here's some information about how many students we house, how many students participate in career programming, how many students are involved in in student clubs and organizations, and here's how we've tracked their retention, persistence, graduation. Right? That is demonstrating the impact that that student affairs has.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:27:27]: And so, again, the example at Illinois that Danita has done, I think, is one worth replicating. And I think that's an important part of telling our story.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:34]: If you'd like to learn more from Danita, she was our NASPA board chair. I believe it was two cycles ago now. And her episode is going to be in whatever two seasons ago is for our podcast. If you'd like to go check that out, please do. Mike, I do wanna kind of name the elephant in the room because we're recording this in the February. We've been navigating the transition of a new political administration in The US. And regardless of what side of the aisle you're on, if you're working in The United States, your job is going to be affected by this new administration's policies. We're also hearing some rumors and we don't know again what will happen by the time this episode is released, that there is some plans to dismantle parts of the Department of Education or the entirety of it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:14]: We're really not sure what that looks like yet. So my question for you here is what is NASPA's plan for how to support our members as we move forward in what is, you know, pretty volatile policy time?

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:28:26]: Great question, Jill, and important and timely. So, you know, for us, for NASPA, and credit to Amelia Parnell, who's our president, it's about staying informed. There has been already a flurry of actions largely through executive order out of the current administration. Like you said, I'm not gonna make this about whether we agree or disagree with a particular policy stamp. There have been a number of actions that do impact our students and do impact our college campuses. And I think that what we have found in the first couple of weeks of this is being able to quickly be sort of aware of what those EOs are or what those actions are, whether they're EOs or or other kinds of statements. What the impact is on the populations that we serve, whether it's it's students, our employees, or international students, queer trans students. It's sort of understanding the impact.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:29:18]: But it's also, I think, it's also, I think, trying to figure out what the next immediate step would be. So and and what I mean by this is I was sitting with a handful of students on Friday. Friday is a I try to doesn't mean Friday is my office hours day. It's open office hours. Any student can come and meet with me on Friday. And so I had a number of students come through on Friday, most last week, and they were interested in sort of the impacts on some of these actions that were taken by the administration. And for me, it was underscoring that at the University of Albany, we are still committed to values that I think are very core to who we are in the space of inclusion and diversity and that we remain steadfast behind that. I think the other part though in speaking with the students was what happens on Tuesday morning could shift by Tuesday afternoon and could be reversed by Wednesday morning.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:30:10]: And the example I was giving on Friday, and again, some of this is timing, right, in terms of the listeners, is there was an there's the OMB memo that in effect froze, funding. There was a provision in the OMB memo. This is gonna I'm gonna get a little bit technical here that said that the freeze would not impact individual award programs, so to speak. So out of the gate, you would think that, let's say, title four funding, so Pell work study, would not be impacted. The problem is there are some nuances to the way those grant programs run. Right? So Pell is is in effect given to the institution. The institution disperses it. That was an evolving issue over, like, forty eight hours.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:30:51]: And so what started it as something on Tuesday morning became something very different on Wednesday afternoon. And so and then I think we're seeing that with a number of these issues. So long way of getting at for NASPA and the work that our staff is doing and the work that the board of directors is currently doing, which is actually being very attentive on an ongoing basis. So beyond sort of just our regular board meetings, right, Amelia and her team have been very good about convening the board on a more regular basis to take up issues so we are informed about what is going on and to consider what an appropriate response may be. But it's almost not knee jerk. I'm not probably using the right terminology because if you are sort of responding in the moment, you may not be actually offering that be completely accurate response. And as much as we want to respond now, what is happening now might be different tomorrow. And that's something that can be a little bit jarring to sort of lead through, and it does take a little bit of just a deep breath to sort of see what the landscape looks like.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:31:51]: And I'll say that NASPA, I think, is is fortunate in that we have leadership, both staff leadership in Emilia and board leadership that is keyed into what is best for our members and trying to message that when appropriate in such a way to provide members on campuses with resources to support to support them, each other, but also, I think importantly, our students. And so I think we're gonna be engaged in that for at least the next couple of years. And I think that there's been a a pretty significant flurry in the first couple of weeks of the administration. And I think the future of of the Department of Education is is certainly one that we're gonna track very, very closely because there's obviously some impact there. That that will impact students and quite honestly, some of the most sort of minoritized and marginalized students in terms of the populations that the Department of Education serves.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:41]: I think this is a good approach. It sounds like NASPA in general is gonna be maybe a bit more reactive in the next couple of months just because we don't really know what this is going to look like. It is fairly unprecedented for an administration to move in this particular way. My doctorate's in public administration. I know you studied public policy, so it's it's fascinating to see structures being used in ways that we haven't seen them used before from from a scholarly perspective. But I understand that the feeling of being inside of it can be really unsettling as well. So I just encourage our members to take care of yourselves and make space for your well-being. Because I know our work is being affected, and for some of us, it can feel really scary because our direct work is what is being questioned right now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:21]: And we don't know what the future is going to hold in terms of what the federal end is gonna decide to do. We know that a lot of our states are affirming the work that we do and some are not, and we've seen that already. Our colleagues in specific states trying to navigate care for students while also being prohibited from engaging in specific types of sport. A lot ahead and and, Mike, we hope to continue to talk to you about this should things really, really change the next couple of months. And on that note, we are still in our theme of the past, present, and future of student affairs. So I have three questions for you. One each on the past, present and future about our profession. So starting in the past, what's one component of the history of student affairs that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively let go of? I think

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:34:02]: it'd be great if I could find something we can get rid of. You know, I say it'd be great if I could think of something we could get rid of because it goes to the point I was sort of alluding to earlier, is we continue to take it on. We continue to take everything on and feeling in some ways that just reflects the role that student affairs has played in sort of the more contemporary history in higher education that we outside of the classroom in particular, there has been so much more that we are able to do. And as I sit with our team, they're tired. And I think the pandemic in particular also underscored, like, where's the balance? And I I'm gonna try to draw this sort of ping pong here, but I continue to be concerned about sort of the future of the profession in terms of where where our next professionals coming from. And if they're seeing those of us who are in it spending hours at a time in these spaces, morning, noon, and night, is that appealing to rising professionals? I mean, I don't have an answer to that. Right? I've I've got a NASPA fellow who actually think is really into student affairs. And Juan's been completely exposed to what I've done over the last two years.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:35:07]: He's been my fellow. So I I don't know. He's been turned off by it. I do try to glean some balance in what I do, and I do try to underscore that with with Juan. But I don't think, you know, this notion if if I was to say that in some ways student affairs has been everywhere all the time historically, I do wonder if maybe that's something we need to reconsider in a lot of ways. And I'll fully acknowledge, Joe, that's a mic take. There's clearly folks out there that might be like, well, no. We've not been everywhere all the time, and maybe that's true.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:35:31]: But I think there's there's a pretty stark shift that's happened certainly since 2020 in the pandemic. In the pandemic, I'd say George Floyd, quite honestly, there was a significant racial reckoning that took place that for me was there was an evolution in my own thinking on issues around race and equity that I hadn't experienced previous to that. And a lot of that had to do with quite honestly being on a Zoom call. And it was May, June of the pandemic with black colleagues who were visibly exhausted on the screen. And that had a pretty significant impact on me in watching them and hearing them talk about George Floyd's murder. And so, you know, that to me was another example of how much more of this can we sort of take on? And we're all approaching it from very different ways. So I do think it's it's trying to truly glean some balance there. But I think it's that also goes to the point I was making earlier about how do we carve out what our explicit role is on college campuses as the the authority in student health, in student belonging, in issues around equity.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:36:34]: So that's sort of a a meandering answer to that, but I think there's gotta be some more balance there.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:38]: Moving into the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs? I

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:36:43]: was in Boston a couple weeks ago at the NASPA Strategies Conference, and there were 1,400 people there. And I think we're zeroing in and maybe using some sharp elbows to sort of demonstrate to people that we are the folks that are interested in issues around student health, well-being. There was some significant energy in Boston in January around, topics related to health and well-being. And I was so impressed by the presentations, by the poster sessions. We brought a small team of our own peer educators there. We had about 10 of them. The Middle Earth Peer Assistance Program at UAlbany is over five decades old now. But to see these students, these young people, who I think in a lot of ways, if they wanted to, any one of those 10 students could be very successful student affairs professionals in their life and career.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:37:32]: But having them there with 1,400 people, professionals, with a focus on how student mental health is sort of key to student success, I think, was just a tremendous, tremendous opportunity for them. And they said as much. They dropped off a note the other day because we went out to dinner after their poster session. But I think that's actually something that we are doing right. And I think that UAlbany and a number of other institutions are really trying to lean in heavily as health promoting universities. And I think NASPA has been supportive of the US Health Promoting College Network. There was a meeting that happened in Boston there. There's a lot to be said about not just sort of heralding the importance of health, but actually demonstrating how we're positively impacting this through our work.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:38:15]: And that was on full display in Boston in January. So I think among probably many things, that's one area that I think I'm tremendously proud of.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:22]: Looking towards the future, in an ideal world, what does the field need to do to thrive towards our future?

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:38:27]: I think we need to center our people. I think we need to center our staff, our colleagues. And I think that, I mean, as much as we are prioritizing student health and well-being, I think we also need to be prioritizing our own health and well-being. And that's one of these other realizations that I think I've had in the last probably five years, certainly since the pandemic. And I've said this to our team here at UAlbany, and I and I've shared it with NASPA colleagues as well. If we are not in a position to support our staff, our employees, our professionals, and our grad students so that they feel supported and seen and heard and taken care of, how would we expect them to do that for our students? And I think and then I've said with a number of colleagues, I think, oh, this is not rocket science. I mean, this is not oh, this is an amazing idea. But it's easier said than done, I think, is the challenge.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:39:16]: I say to first year students, every summer, you need to prioritize your health. If you're not eating well, if you're not exercising, if you're not sleeping, you're gonna struggle in the class room. You have to be healthy in order to be successful, and there's lots of ways we can unpack success. But I think that one's health is key to that, and I'd say the same thing with student affairs practitioners. How are we centering their health and well-being? And I don't know to the extent that we have really tackled it head on. And that is something that I am hopeful in the next year or so that we can begin to unpack a little bit more. The concept isn't rocket science. Science.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:39:54]: I think delivering on it was gonna take some minds to come together and say, you know, let's let's pause for a second and see how we can, in fact, prioritize student affairs practitioners' health and well-being. And it's it's for members across our association. I mean, it's I know everybody's got maybe different needs. What the challenges that a senior student affairs officer might be confronted are probably very different than what a new professional is confronting. That and then acknowledging the intersectionality of various identities and experiences, also very different. So it's a challenge to unpack it. But if we wanna try to sustain the profession going forward, I think we have to prioritize our health in doing that. And I would certainly for those that are listening, if you've got ideas, I would be very open to hearing them because I I really do think that it's gonna take all of us to really tackle this issue of our profession's health.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:40:47]: It starts with our own health, how we get there. I wish I had a good sense, but I'm hoping there's folks that are there that are listening that can chime in on this one.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:53]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:59]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's so much happening in NASPA. The twenty twenty five NASPA virtual conference is happening April 9 to April 11. You can now sign up for the twenty twenty five NASPA virtual conference. You can sign up today and block off your calendar for a three day interactive educational experience. Attendees will engage in high quality live virtual sessions focused on individual and team growth. All of the sessions will remain accessible to attendees on demand for a full three hundred and sixty five days after the conference. This is a perfect way to encourage ongoing development.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:42]: Find out more on the NASPA website. There is a brand new public policy hub that has been developed by NASPA to help institutions and individuals navigate the evolving public policy landscape. NASPA is pleased to announce a brand new public policy resource hub. This is a free member resource to stay informed about key policy developments affecting student affairs. The public policy resource hub consists of a compilation of policy research, coalition work, and resources. You can find tools to track state legislation and federal policy changes. And NASPO will work to keep the information updated to help you stay abreast of emerging developments. The twenty twenty five cannabis and opioid prevention virtual summit is coming up on March 24.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:36]: The twenty twenty five cannabis and opioid prevention virtual summit will equip you with targeted strategies to address cannabis and opioid misuse on your campuses. Through expert led sessions and evidence based approaches, you will gain insights into prevention, intervention, and support frameworks that enhance student health and safety. This one day virtual summit features a keynote session, research policy and best practice presentations, and tangible resources to help you and student leaders on your campus develop or enhance their programming and services to prevent substance misuse on campus. NASPA invites you to connect with colleagues, participate in engaging sessions, and learn from dynamic plenary sessions. Again, this virtual summit is on 03/24/2025, and you can find out more on the NASPA website. Another virtual summit that's coming up is a part of the Culture of Respect series, and this is a new webinar called A Is Not for Ally, Asexuality, Erasure, and Sexual Violence in the queer community. In this webinar, the speakers will examine the unique challenges faced by asexual individuals, particularly regarding sexual and interpersonal violence. They will highlight how asexuality is often erased or even ostracized within queer communities, leading to misconceptions and a lack of visibility that can leave survivors without adequate support.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:44:08]: By addressing these intersections, they aim to foster a more inclusive conversation around consent, trauma, and identity, ultimately advocating for a more supportive environment for all members of the LGBTQ plus community. This session is on March 12 online and is being hosted by Stephanie Foran, assistant director of care at Kansas State University. You can find out more in the learning hub on the NASPA website. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, Where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:45:34]: Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:02]: Chris, thank you so much as always for keeping us informed on what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Mike, we are at our lightning round, so I have seven questions for you to answer in ninety seconds. Are you ready to go?

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:46:13]: Oh, boy. Here we go. Let's go.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:15]: Alright. Question one. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:46:20]: Pretty fly for a white guy.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:21]: Number two. When you were five years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:46:24]: Oh, when I was five, I wanted to be a school bus driver.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:26]: Number three. Who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:46:29]: Probably Steve Bicessi, formerly at the University of Richmond.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:32]: Number four. Your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:46:34]: It's not really a student affairs read, but I like Y by Simon Sinek.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:38]: Number five, the best TV show you binged lately.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:46:41]: I've done the Gilded Age.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:42]: Number six, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:46:45]: I'm a big Buffalo Bills fan, so I've been doing one Bills live.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:48]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:46:52]: Just a quick shout out to my RDs for life. These were the team of regional directors that we were together a couple years back. So shout out to RDs for life who are out there. Big supporters.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:01]: Well, Mike, we wish you all of the best for your year ahead in the board chair seats. And if NASPA members would like to get a hold of you after the show, how can they find you?

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:47:09]: An email at mkristakis@albany.edu. Always the easiest way to go. You can find me on the albany.edu website as well or connect with me on LinkedIn.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:17]: Thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today, and we look forward to your leadership.

Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:47:21]: Thanks, Jill. Appreciate the opportunity.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:28]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners, and we continue to be grateful that you spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at essayvoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show, and please leave us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really helps other student affairs professionals find our show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:06]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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Bridging the Past, Present, and Future of Student Affairs with AI In the constantly evolving landscape of higher education, artificial intelligence (AI) is emerging as a potent tool for student affairs professionals. In the latest episode of the "Student Affairs Voices from the Field" podcast, Dr. Jill Creighton spoke with Dr. Claire Brady as she shared her insights on how AI can be harnessed to streamline operations, free up time for deeper human connections, and enhance student success. Anchoring her discourse around the recently published NASPA AI report, Dr. Brady provides a roadmap for AI integration, framed through four crucial phases.

Rapid Implementation: Where to Start Starting Small for Immediate Impact Dr. Brady emphasizes the importance of initiating AI integration through readily available solutions that address immediate challenges with minimal disruption. This phase centers around adopting free and low-cost tools that can yield quick wins. For instance, Kellogg Community College began using a CRM with embedded AI tools in their admissions department, which gradually expanded across the institution. This approach allowed them to showcase the value of AI incrementally while building momentum for broader adoption.

Resource and Capacity Building: Strengthening Foundations Enhancing AI Literacy and Competence The second phase involves building the necessary infrastructure and expertise for more sophisticated AI applications. Nashville State Community College serves as a model, implementing a year-long AI training program funded by a state grant. This comprehensive program combines interactive learning with critical analysis of AI's practical applications, helping to foster a campus-wide culture of AI literacy and competence. Such initiatives are crucial for developing the foundational knowledge and skills required for future AI endeavors.

Scaling Solutions: Expanding AI's Reach From Departmental Pilots to Institutional Integration Scaling successful AI initiatives across various departments and functions forms the core of the third phase. Georgia State University's chatbot, Pounce, exemplifies this phase. Originally designed to reduce summer melt, Pounce has evolved into a comprehensive student support system. By leveraging AI to improve engagement with first-generation and underserved students, Georgia State demonstrates how a focused pilot project can scale into a broad institutional strategy that significantly enhances student experiences.

Strategic Transformation: Towards Comprehensive Integration Aligning AI with Institutional Goals The final phase, strategic transformation, envisions a comprehensive integration of AI fully aligned with broader institutional goals. This phase anticipates creating an ecosystem where all technological components work synergistically. The University of Florida's "Building an AI University" initiative exemplifies this stage. By embedding AI education across disciplines and emphasizing ethical guidelines and accessibility, the university ensures that AI integration supports their mission holistically.

Moving Forward: Centering the Human Element Enhancing, Not Replacing Human Interaction Dr. Brady highlights the essential role of human-centered AI integration, stressing that AI should augment rather than replace human interactions. AI can alleviate the laborious aspects of administrative tasks, allowing student affairs professionals to focus more on meaningful, human-centric activities. This perspective is crucial as the field navigates the integration of emerging technologies.

Conclusion: Embracing the AI Frontier The transformational potential of AI in student affairs is vast, and as Dr. Brady emphasizes, now is the time for institutions to start exploring and implementing these tools. By following the structured phases of AI integration outlined in the NASPA report, student affairs professionals can strategically harness AI to enhance their work, support students, and ultimately drive institutional success. As we embrace this new frontier, continuous learning, ethical considerations, and a commitment to human-centered practices will be key to thriving in the future.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is season 12, continuing our journey through the past, present, and future of student affairs. I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on essay voices, we're bringing the conversation back to artificial intelligence in student affairs. We welcome Claire Brady, who is a first generation American and first generation college graduate who has built a distinguished career at the intersection of digital transformation, organizational excellence, and higher educational leadership. A seasoned executive consultant and national thought leader in AI adoption, Claire specializes in helping organizations harness AI not just to streamline operations, but to free up time for deeper, more meaningful human connections. Through glass half full consulting, Claire helps organizations scale their AI integrations strategically and substantially.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:02]: Sorry, Chris. Starting that, paragraph over. Through glass half full consulting, Claire helps organizations scale their AI integrations strategically and sustainably, enabling teams to amplify their impact while staying true to their core mission and values. The firm specializes in creating customized AI adoption road maps that align with organizational goals, ensuring technology serves as a catalyst for meaningful growth and enhanced human connections. As a sought after speaker and trainer, Claire is dedicated to equipping professionals with the knowledge and tools they need to thrive in an AI enhanced world. She is the author of The Transformative Potential of AI and Student Affairs, Recommendations for Student Affairs Leader, a national report developed in partnership with NASPA and the Strata Educational Foundation, which is also the topic of our episode today. Claire has held executive leadership roles as vice president for student affairs at Lake Sumter State College and Anna G. Mendez University, serving both Florida and Puerto Rico.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:55]: Her career also includes leadership and teaching roles at the University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign, Michigan State University, and Alma College. A committed mentor and thought leader in higher education, she's contributed to NASBA as a faculty member and co director of the Institute for Aspiring BPSAs and New Professionals Institute, as well as a frequent contributor to Leadership Exchange and Colleague Conversations. Beyond her professional work, Claire is an active member of regional and national associations and serves on various community boards in Central Florida. She and her partner, Ben, and their son live in Orlando where life is filled with Lego builds, Minecraft discussions, and Broadway show tunes. When she's not exploring new AI tools or traveling, she enjoys reading, great TV, and time with family and friends. Claire, welcome to SA Voices.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:02:37]: Thank you for having me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:38]: Lovely to see you again with many connections in NASPA. I always like to clue our listeners in. Claire was one of my faculty members at the NASPA AVP Institute. Oh, gosh. I think that was five years ago now.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:02:51]: A time ago.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:53]: And and so it's lovely to reconnect. We're gonna be spending most of our conversation today talking about the authorship of the AI report, which was just released by NASPA just before the winter break. So if you haven't had a chance to check that out, it is freely available actually with or without your NASPA membership. If you're just a higher ed community member and wanna check it out, it's, freely available on the Internet. But Claire, you're off and running into the consulting world now after have having spent a long time, as a senior student affairs officer at VPSA. We always like to ask our guests how you got to your current seat, and I'm so curious about your journey.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:03:27]: As you can imagine, a lot of people have questions about moving from full time staff into consulting. So I'll I'll definitely share some of that as well. So I'm a very traditional higher ed student affairs. I mean, my twenty fifth year, I started as a student leader. Most folks know my origin story. I immigrated to The US when I was in high school, and I'm a first generation college student. I was absolutely in love with the college experience at Michigan State University, very involved student leader, and applied for graduate school and got denied. And it was actually the best thing that could have happened to me.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:04:00]: I went and worked full time at a small liberal arts college, Alma College in Michigan, and really honed my craft and really figured out quickly that this was the profession I wanted to pursue. Went on to graduate school, went on to some great positions at Michigan State, the University of Illinois and Lake Sumter State College and eventually Ana G. Mendez University. So I've worked at Big Ten, I've worked at community college, I've worked at a Hispanic serving bilingual institution, and I really started off in generalist, roles. Then I moved to some specialist roles, eventually into AVP, Dean of Students and Vice President of Student Affairs. And all throughout that process, I always was a regular good human in the professional association space. I did a lot of speaking and presenting, and then eventually I did some consulting on the side. And in 2023, kind of the stars aligned for me.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:04:49]: I was about to renew my contract as a vice chancellor of student affairs. My chancellor announced he was leaving to go to a different presidency. And I saw an opportunity to really throw my hat into the ring and become a full time consultant and start to really pour into myself instead of into an institution or into a system. And I had been doing a lot of work around strategic planning and other areas, but artificial intelligence wasn't even something that I was doing professionally. It was just something that I was doing personally. I was really interested and curious about it. I love anything that helps me save time and do things more effectively, faster, that that frees up time for me to do the things I really love to do. And I had a client who said, I really don't understand this entire world.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:05:34]: Can you help me? Can you coach me? And that was a launching point for me and I have been full time consulting with my firm, Glass Hospital Consulting ever since. And about 70% of my business now is completely focused in the area of AI. It's really wild.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:47]: What a shift. We weren't even talking about this in higher ed, like, eighteen months ago.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:05:51]: Absolutely. And when I say consulting with AI, it's everything from I do about 10 to 12 keynotes kind of keynote speeches a month, either in person or virtually. But the bulk of my business around AI is actually really focused in the actual AI integration, helping institutions scale, how to take that individual person in admissions or advising or career services who's using a tool like ChatGPT or insert whatever your favorite tool is, to taking it and actually scaling it at the division or departmental or institutional level. How to do the governance work, how to do the policy work, how to increase AI literacy. So it's really layered. It's really interesting. It's different every day. And I'm on about 30 campuses a year.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:06:33]: That's about the max that I can do at this point. So I get to see lots of great campuses all around the country. I have, many wardrobes, and I spent a lot of time on planes and in airports. But wherever I go, I have this incredible community of student affairs folks, either with the institution I'm working with or in the surrounding area. So that's also been a really great way that I've stayed connected in the field while kind of working mostly from home.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:56]: I appreciate you sharing what that consulting actually looks like. I think it's such an enigma that we see senior leaders move into their own consulting space all the time, but I think a lot of people don't really know what that means. So it's great to hear.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:07:07]: I feel like it's like the celebrity or the actor who, like, finally wins the Academy Award at the end and everyone's like, oh, you were like an overnight success. I really think two things really helped me be successful in the space. I was a really good professional for twenty five years. Right? And I built up this network of people who trust me and know me and know that I give up my time and my effort. I'm also a mentor and a sponsor to a lot of people, but I've also been mentored and sponsored by a lot of people. And from that, I was able to grow a business. So a lot of times I have folks asking me, like, what's your best advice for becoming a consultant? It's to be a really great professional and to be really engaged and and invested in our field. And then also, I have kept up all of those professional volunteer association work roles.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:07:50]: I was a co director with my friend Jose Rivera for the aspiring vice president's institute. I continue to do all kinds I I review programs and I review awards and I do all the things. Right? And then also, the second piece was I'm an opportunist. And AI right now, there's just not a lot of folks doing this work in higher ed. And here I am saying, I'm gonna plant my flag along in this case with the report with NASPA, and we're gonna help you. Because no one knows what they're doing and everyone is a novice. And I will tell you that our field as a whole are not used to being a novice at anything. And so this has been a really, transformational moment for a lot of folks to have members of cabinet come to me and say, I don't know how to lead in this area.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:08:35]: What do I need to know to build my basic competence, let alone my confidence? Right? So that's been a really interesting space to be. And I'm not a super techie person. I often need help with my slide deck. So that's also helped a little bit that I'm relatable and approachable, and then I'm learning alongside all my clients as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:53]: This is a really important component of this AI learning space, which is that we're all learning together. I'm teaching European master's course. I'm teaching the technology module. We did a whole four hour session on AI integration. And what I said to the students in the class is I'm not an AI expert, but what I am is a dabbler and a tinkerer. And I think that's what you really need in order to experiment with how does AI actually serve you in your day to day work. Whether it be something simple like Microsoft Copilot, which a lot of universities have for free with their Microsoft Office licenses or three sixty five or whatever the heck it's called now. ChatGPT, which is free, Omni, all these AI generated imagery components.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:32]: And there's even some really great tools that will help you create a PowerPoint deck from couple of bullet points and things like that. So what we did was just went through tools and played with them together and talked about, well, how do we use this to create emails? How do we use this to write something down that's difficult? But also how do we do this in a way that doesn't violate FERPA or whatever privacy law your GDPR here over in the European Union area. But all of these things, because we're putting sensitive data in a lot of places if we're misusing these tools. So a lot to talk about on this topic, but why don't we center first with what is the NASPA AI report?

Dr. Claire Brady [00:10:08]: So last spring, NASPA approached me. They knew I was doing this work at AI, and they said to me, we wanna be one of the first associations that plants our flag in this area, that provides resources for our members. We're hearing that we know they need it. They know they want it. And so they came to me and asked me whether I would be willing to partner with them and Strata Educational Foundation to put out some resources. But beyond that, we didn't really know where it was gonna land. Right? What it was gonna look like. And so I spent about six months in the field talking to folks, and I started out really using my networks and saying, who's doing something vanguard? Who's doing something advanced? Who's doing something who has an emerging best practice? Not a single response because no one thinks they're doing anything that is ahead of everybody else because every everyone thinks they're behind.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:55]: So emerging practice, but not emerging best practice.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:10:58]: Exactly. Exactly. Right? So if they're tinkering if I asked who's tinkering, I think I would have gotten a very different set of responses. So I had to keep refining. I had to really keep working my network. And from that came this report that really highlights not just what is AI and what are the key terminologies, but what's the current state in student affairs? Where are we now? Where do I see the horizon kind of leading to us and where's around the corner? And that's really important because we're all talking about tools, mostly generative AI tools like ChatGPT and Gemini. What we're not really talking about is all the data work that's ahead of us. We're not really talking about student consent.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:11:34]: We're talking about privacy and cybersecurity. We need to be talking about those things. We're not talking about things like student consent. So the really kind of nuanced work that we need to be doing, there is no framework that existed to integrate, how to scale, so we created that as part of the report. And then I think the two pieces that are most exciting to me, one are the emerging use cases. There are 14 of them. Those are use cases that are are in their one or more cycles, in many cases, six or seven cycles where we know they're collecting data, where they're actually measuring impact, where they can be replicated by other institutions and explained in a way that's not just theoretical. And then there's 50 plus forecasted use cases in the report.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:12:14]: And those are really either coming from we just know that they're coming based on where the technology is evolving or they're coming from other areas outside of higher education that we know that we will be able to apply that same concept within higher education. And then there's a charge to leaders. What do you need to do next? How do you need to be a bold leader in this area? And that really comes down to this very unsexy idea of developing AI literacy amongst everybody at your institution, including students. Right? And then iterating, practicing, trying, tinkering, whatever the word might be. And so we probably have enough content to make three more reports, really collected such just rich information and data, but we had to figure out what what folks need right now. And what folks right need right now, I think, is really encapsulated in this report. And then what we're finding is the folks in the 14 emerging use cases are getting contacted every week since the report came out from institutions saying, tell me how you did that. Or sometimes it's an in house product, sometimes it's a vendor product.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:13:15]: And so we're seeing this really kind of interesting community forming around these 14 use cases. And I'm hoping that we'll start to see my next set of use cases will be some of those forecasted use cases that come to life.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:26]: So in the report, there are four phases of AI integration and development that are brought up as a way of kind of framing how to approach it. Because I think where we are as a field is this notion that we all know that we need to do better with AI. We all know we need to do something with AI. And I think everyone is a little bit overwhelmed by what that means or where to start because at the end of the day, as student affairs professionals, we are the end user case of AI. We're not usually the developers. Maybe we have IT teams that are internal to student affairs. Maybe we're working with a university central IT department. But there are so many things that can be done.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:02]: There's some use cases around chat GPT like components for your university. Forever, we've been talking about one stop shop answers for students, and we can do that online. We can do it better than the big chat GPT or other LLMs, meaning large language models because we can feed data in in faster real time, all of those things. But we again, we're going back to these four phases that really tell us, hey. Here's how we begin because beginning might actually be the scariest part here. So talk to us about phase one, which is rapid implementation.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:14:34]: So phase one is really focused on readily available AI solutions that address immediate challenges but have minimal disruption. So the example I love to give for this one is a manager who's really struggling to have consistency maybe in their performance reviews for their team. They could use an AI tool, anonymize, obviously, not putting any kind of personal information into the tool, And they can really use that as a way to improve in that particular case in their particular department a process or a written, output. Right? Kellogg Community College has a a great example of this. So they started using a CRM, a customer relationship management platform that has embedded AI tools, and they started simply in admission. And then they began expanding across all departments that have any piece of the new student student communications process. Right? And so by really focusing on rapid implementation and then scaling in a logical organic way, it allowed them to demonstrate value quickly while building momentum for this broader adoption. And from my interviews with them, they really don't think it would have been as successful as if they had kind of done a huge project that was really focused on the entire communications process.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:15:48]: Right? So they were able to start in admissions and then kind of build from there. So that's a great example of phase one.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:54]: So we now have phase two, which is resource and capacity building. This is taking us to the next step. What does this mean?

Dr. Claire Brady [00:16:01]: So phase two really focuses on moving institutions beyond quick wins to developing the infrastructure and expertise needed for more sophisticated applications. So the examples that I like to give in this one are really focused on AI literacy in particular and data readiness. Those are two areas that we know. Once we have kind of the basics, folks understand what the tools are, they are given a right a a a tech stack really that they can play in. How do you move your institutional capacity in terms of resources, but also in terms of knowledge, confidence, and competence. So Nashville State Community College really exemplifies this phase for me. They are doing a year long AI training program monthly, which combines interactive learning with critical analysis of AI's practical applications. So imagine the entire institution is undergoing some similar AI literacy training, And then each month, different populations within the faculty and staff are doing intensive AI training for that whole day on a Friday, let's say, just looking at accessibility tools, just looking at research and writing tools, just looking at the power of AI in the advising space.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:17:10]: And so they're a great example of one that's kind of taken this idea. They, sought out a grant from the state of Tennessee. So the state of Tennessee is actually paying for this pilot program at Nashville State, and it's really a proof of concept for the other community colleges within the system. So that's a great example of a way to build resource and capacity code.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:30]: And then phase three, we have scaling solutions, which I think is one of the scarier things, about AI integration personally. Probably because it comes with assigning dollar resources, but also policy frameworks kind of kick in, I think, at this point.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:17:45]: This is the one where folks think things are gonna break, usually. But this is actually the dream stage that everybody wants to get to. We don't really only want one department or one person. It's a single source of failure. So scaling solution shifts the focus to expanding successful AI initiatives across either departments, divisions, functions, and or institutions. So Georgia State is a great example of this. They're really the powerhouse as it relates to chatbots and virtual assistants. They started with a chatbot called Pounce in their enrollment services area that demonstrates really the power of scaling.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:18:20]: So it began as a tool to reduce summer melts, and it's actually evolved into a comprehensive student support system with particularly strong engagement of among first generation and traditionally underserved students. So imagine a chatbot, really, that's focused on the new student and making sure that we get them through to the first day of class. So there's nudges along the way. There's ways to engage the student. There's ways to prompt them and nudge them into doing specific behaviors, pay your bill, check your financial aid email, you know, whatever that might look like. But in that process, in that back and forth with the students, they really discovered many of the roadblocks students were encountering, many of the issues, many of the questions. And so from that, they've been able to scale this one chatbot into this comprehensive way that they communicate with students across the student experience. So they were able to to really take that and say, we're gonna take this concept.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:19:13]: And as we work with international students, it's gonna look like this. Whereas we work with our military affiliated students, it's gonna look like this. And so they've taken that one concept and they've been able to really scale it across the institution. It's the dream.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:25]: And then finally, we have phase four, which is strategic transformation. Tell us about this one.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:19:31]: This is really kind of where the cycle then actually, once we work on representing that vision of a more comprehensive AI integration that's fully aligned with our broader institutional goals. This is what I call the ecosystem. Right? This is where all the pieces are really talking to each other, where we know that we're able to have data in the places and in the ways that we we need it to be, that our communications, that our student experience, all of that is really working in synergy. But honestly, this is where the cycle restarts again. So it's not just necessarily the end spot. It's really where things kind of evolve to, and then they kind of start that whole framework all over again. The University of Florida has an initiative called Building an AI University. And I think for me, this is really, at this moment in time, the best example in the country right now of this phase four.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:20:20]: So it really exemplifies this phase by prioritizing AI education across all disciplines while also really focusing on developing ethical guidelines, ensuring accessible tools for diverse student populations. And this is really where their curricular and co curricular, the student experience, the academic learning outcomes are all aligned and integrated in a way that you can tell the institution is working at a really high level, functioning at a really high level, But also, everybody's kind of marching in the same direction, and they've seen they've scaled all the solutions. They've seen the impact. And it's very obvious that this is an institution to me, at least. And I I live in the state of Florida, but the University of Florida started this six or seven years ago. So it's taken them a while to really get to this place. But I think they really are the model that a lot of institutions will be looking to in the future.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:14]: And they also have the resources of being a very large public

Dr. Claire Brady [00:21:17]: They do.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:17]: Which is very different than maybe I'm at a two year institution or a small liberal arts institution. I think there's kind of this constant myth that small liberal arts institutions are well resourced, and that's really not true for a lot. Not true.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:21:29]: Not true.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:30]: Well, Well,

Dr. Claire Brady [00:21:31]: and I think a big piece of what's interesting about this technical revolution that we're in is I'm actually seeing a lot more open source. I'm seeing a lot more open licenses. I'm seeing institutions like the University of Florida and others saying we're gonna open this up. So everything that's happening at the University of Florida is also being shared, at Miami Dade, and it's also being shared at Florida International. Different type of institution, very different resource set. And so what we're seeing is folks are playing nice in the sandbox right now. There's a lot of beta funding coming in. There's a lot of venture capital coming into this area in higher ed.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:22:08]: I get asked probably once a week to comment to a venture capitalist on what the tools are that my clients are using. And, Jill, I wanna be really clear, I don't work at all for vendors, which disappoints them greatly. I only work for institutions. My my entire business is based on my relationship with institutions. They have to be able to trust that what I'm saying about these tools is accurate and fair and as unbiased as I can be in the marketplace. I have no problem telling a vendor I think their tool is great or not great or has problems. I do that about once a week as well. But I am seeing a real sense of community.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:22:40]: Berkeley's a great example. Zach Pardos at the University of California, Berkeley, his lab is doing some incredible work as it relates to two areas. Tutoring, which in math and chemistry in particular is so important to many of our students success initiatives, and also in transfer articulation and transcript evaluation. The registrars around the country are cheering. That is just a huge manual heavy lift. And if we can do anything to make the transfer experience more seamless, quicker, less taxing on students, where they can make informed decisions quickly about where they want to transfer. I think that's going to be a major game changer for student success initiatives. So I am seeing some nice kind of playing in the sandbox.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:23:21]: I am curious though how venture capital and funding might potentially shift some of those behaviors that I'm seeing.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:29]: One of the major components at the front of the report is this idea of human centered AI integration, which I'm glad that you included because I think the conversation that is around fear of AI is will AI take away the need for human interaction or the human nature of student affairs, which my assertion has been student affairs is first and foremost a human to human profession. We're a helping profession. We're making the difference in students' lives and in their persistence and in their college experience, which I don't think AI will ever be able to do fully. So we're looking really more at how does AI enhance our work or inform our work rather than do our work. Can you talk to us about how you you framed human centered AI integration in the report and how you see it show up in the four phases?

Dr. Claire Brady [00:24:14]: Sure. I think that the really interesting piece for me is that this is human centered work that I think AI as a tool is just another one in our toolbox. Right? I think so much of student affairs work and our desire and our need to be accountable and to show the work that we're doing and the impact that we're having became very laborious for many student affairs practitioners. And I think, Claire Brady thinks, that it contributed significantly to many of our issues, not all of them, around burnout, around fatigue. If you're spending so much time as an academic advisor is a great example. Logging in to six to 12 systems a day, The systems are talking to each other. I wanna meet with a student. I have to log in.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:24:56]: I have to figure out who you are. I have to track things. So many of the tools require so much human intervention just to operate. Right? Let alone be optimal or give you a snapshot. And then so many institutions are not able to afford the Cadillac style portals and systems that are out there in the marketplace. I worked at a community college for ten years. I had to beg for an early alert system for seven of those ten years. So let alone the Cadillac.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:25:25]: I was going for a much different version than many of the other institutions. So for me, what I want AI to help us do is to free up our time to remove many of those tasks that have become onerous and laborious for no reason. I want our systems to talk to each other. I love a faculty to be involved in their early alert process, but I would much prefer that I have a background system that tells me my student hasn't logged into Canvas in three days. My student had an assignment in a class, and they didn't turn anything in. My student has been posting things in the discussion posts that have some language that concerns me. I would love to be alerted about that and not have to rely on another person who has a lot of other things going on in their life. So for me, it's about freeing up time for the work that really matters.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:26:07]: I think about a career adviser who spends all that time reviewing resumes. I did it for ten years. I never wanna look at another resume ever again. And I got into career services to do one on one work with students to inspire them for their future careers, and I became a professional resume reviewer to some degree. Right? So there's that piece for me. But I also understand right now, people are kinda over that argument. They're like, but there's so many other problems with it, or there's so many other things. And that's partially because we're so new at using these tools.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:26:38]: We don't even know what else is out there. So we're using them in a very specific, targeted, localized ways. And when our systems with that that integration, which is just around the corner, when your student information system is gonna speak to your learning management system, your mind is gonna be blown. Just that one thing alone, let alone the other six systems that you're also engaged with that will very soon be integrated and talking to each other. So I think we can't even imagine what that looks like yet. And I feel like a futurist a lot in this work, but I'm literally a nowist. Right? Like, I'm a nowist. Here we are.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:27:13]: I think for me in the framework in particular, those early wins, those are all related to free and low cost tools. They are not large licenses. They are not complex systems. They do not require you to do massive data cleanup projects. There are things you could literally be doing tomorrow or this afternoon. And so for me, I feel like in particular right now, that first and second phase are really accessible for folks without significant resources. You can bring in someone like me to do a training, but you could probably cobble together a really great training on your own. Everybody bring your laptop.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:27:53]: Let's sit down. You could watch the webinar I did with NASPA last week. That is free. You could read the report. You could report. You could have a a discussion about it. You could go and try some of the tools. So I think for me, those first two phases in particular, there is no one stopping you.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:28:07]: Yes. Scaling is more complicated. Scaling requires a certain level of finesse. It requires leadership's buy in. But those first two phases for me are absolutely doable in the moment. They do not require you to be the vice president of student affairs. You can be anybody in the organization as long as you're following your organization's policy and practices around their use of AI. And I have seen that really expand in the last six months.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:28:32]: From should we be using it, to how should we be using it, to how can we use it to meet our institutional outcomes. And that is a shift from literally the second half of twenty twenty three to January of twenty twenty five. That's a pretty massive fast shift for a field like student affairs or higher ed, which is, you know, usually, removing at a glacial pace.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:52]: And there's an AI literacy question, I think, for the field. And, as we're building our own literacy around this subject and around these tools that are shifting under our feet every day.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:29:01]: Jill, just this week, the whole world's been upended in AI.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:04]: Indeed. Do you wanna share more about that insight?

Dr. Claire Brady [00:29:06]: Well, I mean, I travel a lot to campuses, and one of the questions I get asked the most is, how are these technology companies operating? Tell me more about that because that feels like that's really the part that no one really quite understands. And what you saw happen this week was a competitor out of China coming out with a product that seems, on the surface at least, to be operating and functioning at a much higher level than many of the established tools at a tiny fraction of the cost. And so what you're seeing is, literally, the stock market is reacting to this technological shift that was announced. And so we're at a very volatile moment. And I think that also contributes to kind of the anxiety around these tools is there's a lot of messy stuff happening around us. One of the biggest questions I get asked at university and college campuses is, what's the environmental impact of these technologies? And I don't think that's getting anywhere near the attention it needs to be getting. And sometimes when I, when I mentioned that in a, in a speech or a presentation, I get kind of blank stares. Like, what do you mean? It's just the internet.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:30:09]: Right? The internet doesn't hurt the environment. Well, of course, the internet hurts the environment. And when the large tech companies are investing in nuclear power because they foresee the need for nuclear power because their power needs are gonna be so significant in the future, I think we need to be really AI literate. And this always goes back to this super unsexy topic for me when I speak to chancellors and presidents in particular, like, what should we be doing? You should be learning everything. And I say this to student affairs in particular. These questions around ethical guidelines, around environmental impact, around the influence of corporate worlds, if we're not at the table asking some of those critical questions, I don't think the questions are gonna get asked. And I ask vendors questions when I'm representing my clients that they say to me, no one has ever asked that question before at any university in the country, which I'm like, wait. What are you talking about? Why aren't they asking? Everybody should be asking these questions.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:31:02]: But I am uber AI literate. So I read and I know and I listen to podcasts and I'm talking to people, But I am not an agent of one of these companies, and I am not the most techie person on the planet. I still need a Google and YouTube things to figure out what to do on my iPhone sometimes. So for me, it's just really interesting that there's kind of this veil, and I think we did it to ourselves. We got stuck in the cheating conversation and we couldn't get out of it. And the world moved on around us, and the conversations got more nuanced and more interesting and more layered. And we were still over here saying, well, should we let them? Should we not let them? How should we let them? And we got a little behind. And so we do have a little bit of running to do to catch up, and that goes back to the super unsexy idea that you have to build your confidence and your confidence, and you have to be AI literate.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:50]: One thing I'll mention is if you're listening and you'd not really considered environmental impacts before of AI, what Claire and I are really referencing is the cost of running a server, really. Every time you do a Google search or put something into chat GPT or another large language model, it has to ping somewhere and that server has to be run off of electricity somewhere. And the bigger they get, the more expensive and more resource intensive they are to cool. And then we start looking at water usage and global warming and a whole bunch of other things that are affiliated with that. So as end users, we might just say, oh, this is really great for helping me to revise this message or to provide a resource. And at the end of the day, we're all consuming. So there's interesting ethical components around that for sure.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:32:34]: And it's just gonna get more and more as folks really start. I mean, even when I do a keynote, I ask folks who, you know, what tools are you using every day, how many tools are you using. I've just seen in the last six months just such an explosion of I usually use one or two to now I use three to five, and then I usually use them five to 10 times a day. It's now become I use them 10 to 20 times a day. So amplify that times times the number of people. It's a lot.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:58]: Are there any final thoughts on the AI report or things that you want listeners and student affairs professionals to know?

Dr. Claire Brady [00:33:03]: I think that one, I want you to read it because we really are highlighting and showcasing some incredible folks around the country who are doing the work. And I think that if you are at all thinking about where do we start, how do we start, what do we need to be thinking about, the report is a really great primer to do that. I would encourage you, if you are in a senior leadership role, to share it with your president or your chancellor, whoever that might be. Because although it is focused on student affairs, it is really a higher ed report that we tailored and specialized to our folks. But really, I think there are some key questions and the framework in particular to me, we're really proud of because I feel like it is something folks can really kinda get their hands around. And I'd say, where do I start? Start here. Start by reading the report. Start by discussing it with your peers.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:33:49]: And then I would say, start working on some of the low hanging fruit and working on your AI literacy. When I talk about data integrity and data cleanup and all the rest of it, folks, I start to glaze over a little bit. Right? So that might be a two point o for your institution. But I will tell you that you can start now. You do not need to wait, and you do not need massive amounts of resources. Some of the best, most impactful AI integrations that I have seen so far have been using free and low cost. And one is a great example that we talk about in the report is OA Tutor. It is a open source, open license on MIT that any institution can use and tailor to their own institution for math tutoring and chemistry tutoring.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:34:31]: And think about our student success initiatives and how important math and chemistry are to those. And so I just want you to think really broadly and expansively, but know that this is a really great resource that you need to have in your toolbox. And then I wanna continue to hear from folks because we wanna continue to write and showcase these examples around the world of student affairs folks who are doing work. And if you are doing anything, you are already a vanguard. If you are are are having conversations on your team, maybe you have teams or whatever your product of choice is, and you just have a sandbox, and you share resources or you show really interesting, cool ways that you've used a tool. Any way that we can layer our competency in this area, I think, is gonna really help us as a field and as individuals. And I I think that employers are looking for graduates and for for employees who are willing to explore new technologies and who are willing to not just know how to do it, but know how to do it well. And so I think this report can help a lot of people.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:30]: I'm gonna move us into our theme based questions for the season, which again is our past, present, and future of student affairs. So I have one question on each of those areas. So beginning with the past, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively let go of?

Dr. Claire Brady [00:35:46]: I'm, obsessed with community colleges. I'm absolutely obsessed with them. And I think that some of the most interesting work that's happening around student success, retention, and completion is actually happening on the ground at community colleges. And so I wanna shout from the rooftops to graduate students who are looking for topics for their dissertations and other projects that this is the rife area for us to spend more time. I think we assume they don't have as many resources, but I think they are scrappy and they figure it out. And I think that for folks that are really values aligned, who are really equity and inclusion aligned, so many of our community colleges are doing interesting stuff, and they don't know to share it or to sing it or to put it out there. They don't always have the resources to go to conferences and other events and kind of share the news of what they're doing. And so I would like us to see kind of a return to being curious and excited about the work that's happening at many of our thousands of community colleges in this country.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:36:44]: I'm excited every year when the Aspen Awards come out because I wanna see and I wanna go to those websites and I wanna see those institutions. So I think we need a resurgence of excitement and interest around our community colleges.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:54]: In the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs?

Dr. Claire Brady [00:36:59]: So much. And it's being overshadowed by so much that isn't. I think that so much of the work around our student communications, how we engage with students, our student governments, our student organizations, I think so much of it is going really well. And it's being overshadowed in a lot of ways, in important ways, by what's happening politically and socially around the country. But I don't want to lose sight of the fact that there is some really great student leadership, student organizations, many of our identity based groups. I think there's just really great things happening, and I'm not sure I see that much of it anymore because I feel like a lot of it has been overshadowed.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:34]: And finally, in the future, in an ideal world, what does the field need to be doing to thrive towards our future?

Dr. Claire Brady [00:37:39]: I'm gonna go on my AI track here. We need to be at the table. We need to be leaders in this area. We need to be voices in this area. We need to plant our flags. We need to be really focused around our vendor relationships and asking tough questions, and we need to be informed. And we can only do that if we admit to some degree that we are novices and that we hearken back to the ways we've done it five other times before. When the Internet first came out, what did we do? Right? When social media first came out, what did we do? When we had to go fully online at at the onset of the pandemic, what did we do? When we put calculators in math class, what did we do? As student affairs folks, we centered the student, and we centered the student experience and student learning.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:38:20]: And we figured it out. We we iterated sometimes. We did things not perfectly, and we we got it right eventually. And I think we need to have that same philosophy around artificial intelligence.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:30]: And it's so interesting too because it feels a little bit akin to when social media first came out and university, like, what do we do with this thing? And eventually figured out how to harness social media for highlighting student experience and admissions and a whole bunch of other things. So we're probably there again.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:38:44]: We are. I brought a board of trustees and a group of students and a group of faculty and a cabinet into a room, pulled out laptops, pulled out computers, and they couldn't believe how little of the AI work was related to their academics. It was entertainment, it was poetry, it was music, it was design, it was silly, it was fun, And about 15% of it had anything to do with school.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:06]: Again, the report is the transformational potential of artificial intelligence recommendations for student affairs leaders. We'll put that in our show notes for you. But also, if you just Google NASPA AI report, it'll pop right up for you, and you can access access the report with or without a membership. Though, of course, we'd love it if you become a NASPA member if you were not. It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:30]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back again this week in the NASPA world. And there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. NASPA recently announced all of the award winners that will be recognized at the NASPA annual conference, including the twenty twenty five Melvene D. Hardy dissertation of the year winners. The winner this year was Lisa Janick from Westchester University of Pennsylvania with her dissertation institutional factors associated with closing the equity gap in six year graduation rates at public four year universities. A big congratulations goes out to Doctor. Janek for her work on this.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:08]: The runner-up this year was Doctor. Brandy Probst from Elon University with her dissertation Out Here Fighting for My Life, exploring the experiences of black women, student affairs professionals, and critical incidents in workplace relationships with white women at historically white institutions. If you are going to be attending the NASPA annual conference, you'll be able to learn more about the dissertation of the year winner as well as this whole process. And I encourage you that if you're currently in the dissertation phase of a doctorate or working on one in the future to consider submitting for this prestigious award in the future. Today, I also wanna put a shout out to a book that was published a while back but is still so important today. That is a book in the NASPA bookstore called dismantling hazing in Greek letter organizations effective practices for prevention, response and campus engagement. This was published by Jason Meriwether and Associates. In this book, they offer practical strategies to address the complexities of hazing culture and the challenges associated with recruitment and initiation in various contexts.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:16]: Why is this important? Well, more than half of college students are hazed in the process of joining student organizations, while seven out of every ten students who pledge or rush a fraternity or sorority experience experience some form of hazing or violence. In recent years, numerous student deaths caused by hazing have called into question the value of these organizations while college leaders seek solutions that keep students safe. This book offers practical strategies to address the complexities of hazing culture and the challenges associated with recruitment and initiation in varying context. Each chapter focuses on the nuanced elements of hazing within sorority and fraternity subcultures and explores the hidden harms inside these secretive and tradition laden systems. I encourage you to check this out if you work with organizations, if you work with fraternities and sororities. This book is a powerful book and definitely one that will help you in your own professional practice in working with the students on your own campuses. You can find this book on the NASPA website. Go to NASPA.org, click on publications, and head over to the bookstore.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:23]: Finally, today, the twenty twenty five NASPA Mid Level Administrators Conference is happening June in Salt Lake City, Utah. 20 20 5 NASPA Mid Level Administrators Conference is a dynamic professional development event designed to provide mid level student affairs professionals with the opportunity to engage and learn with colleagues and senior student affairs administrators. During this two and a half day conference, participants will gain insights about promising practices to further develop professional competencies, networking and supervisory skills, strategies to improve professional practice and network to advance your career. The mid level administrators conference is designed for student affairs professionals who serve in roles between but not including entry level positions and AVP and the equivalent roles. Additionally, professionals who have been serving in entry level roles for at least five years are also welcome to attend. If you're looking for a powerful mid level experience to connect yourself with others in the field that are going through some of the things like yourself, I highly encourage you to consider this conference. Early registration ends on April 23 with regular registration ending on May 19. You can find out more by going to the NASPA website, click on events and find the Mid level Administrators Conference right there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:41]: Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself. Where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:45:01]: Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:06]: Chris, thank you so much for keeping us informed on what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Claire, we have reached our lightning round, and I have seven questions for you in ninety seconds. Are you ready to do this?

Dr. Claire Brady [00:45:18]: I'm ready.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:19]: Alright.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:45:19]: Longtime listener, first time caller. I'm so excited for this.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:22]: Question number one. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Claire Brady [00:45:27]: Something Motown.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:28]: Number two. When you were five years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Dr. Claire Brady [00:45:31]: I grew up in Canada, and I wanted to be a Zamboni driver.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:34]: Number three. Who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Claire Brady [00:45:37]: Allen Schott, Michigan State University.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:40]: Number four, your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:45:42]: Blogs. It's all blogs now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:44]: Number five, the best TV show you've been binging lately? Philo. Number six, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to in the last year?

Dr. Claire Brady [00:45:52]: Smartless.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:53]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Claire Brady [00:45:57]: I just wanna give a shout out to Sherry Rowland at Tallahassee Community College, who was my very first AI client, and she was absolutely transformative for me in helping me to kinda shape my business to move towards an AI consulting group. So I wanna thank her.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:13]: Well, Claire, I know that I've learned so much from you, and I really enjoyed reading the report myself. If anyone would like to connect with you after this episode airs, how can they find you?

Dr. Claire Brady [00:46:23]: I'd love to hear from folks. So my website is doctorclairebrady.com. My Instagram is doctor claire brady, and I am obsessed and love LinkedIn. So please find me on LinkedIn. I'm also the moderator of AI in Higher Education, private group on LinkedIn. We have about 500 members where we share resources and connect in a community of folks who are interested in AI. So I'd love to have more folks join that group and find me on LinkedIn.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:49]: Claire, it's been a pleasure learning from you today. Thank you so much for sharing your voice with us.

Dr. Claire Brady [00:46:54]: Thank you. I've loved it. Really appreciate it, Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:02]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners, and we continue to be grateful that you spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at essayvoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and please leave us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really helps other student affairs professionals find our show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:40]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

View Details

In the demanding world of student affairs, professionals are adept at supporting students through crises, but often overlook the need to extend similar care to each other. In this week's "SA Voices from the Field," Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Melinda Stoops delve into the complexities of navigating grief and loss within the field, offering strategic insights for supporting colleagues during challenging times.

Understanding the Impact of Grief in Higher Education Grief is a ubiquitous human experience, but its management within the professional environment, especially in student affairs, can be particularly delicate. Dr. Stoops emphasizes the significance of acknowledging grief and understanding that everyone processes it differently. She encourages a culture of empathy and grace, suggesting that it's critical to check in with colleagues and provide space for them to express their needs without imposing judgments or preconceived notions.

Core Principles for Supporting Colleagues Dr. Stoops and Dr. Creighton highlight the importance of treating individuals as whole beings, which is fundamental both in student interactions and among colleagues. This holistic approach considers physical, emotional, and spiritual well-being, recognizing that well-being is multifaceted and interconnected.

Dr. Stoops shares practical strategies such as simple breathing exercises to help manage stress. Techniques like "rainbow breathing" and "box breathing" can be powerful tools for grounding oneself in the present moment, which can be crucial between back-to-back meetings or during particularly stressful periods.

Practical Strategies to Recenter and Refocus Returning to fundamental wellness practices can significantly benefit professionals in student affairs. Dr. Stoops suggests incorporating short walks, breathing exercises, and even hydration breaks into the daily routine to maintain focus and manage stress. These strategies are designed to be quick and easily integrated into a busy workday, offering immediate relief and aiding in long-term well-being.

Supporting Supervisees and Supervisors The relationship dynamics between supervisors and supervisees can play a crucial role in managing grief. Supervisors are advised to adopt a compassionate and flexible approach, allowing space for supervisees to express their needs and emotions. It's important for supervisors to be vulnerable and share their experiences appropriately, while maintaining professional boundaries and focusing on the needs of their team.

Similarly, supervisees are encouraged to check in with their supervisors, acknowledging the power dynamics but also offering support. This can help create a supportive and empathetic office culture where everyone feels valued and understood.

The Importance of Peer Support Peer-to-peer support is equally vital. Colleagues should feel comfortable checking in with each other and offering help, understanding that different individuals may need varying levels of support. Simple gestures of checking in can make a significant difference, reinforcing a sense of community and collective care.

Moving Forward with Compassion As student affairs professionals, it's essential to foster an environment where everyone feels supported, especially during times of grief and loss. By adopting these strategies and understanding the profound impact of empathy and compassion, the field can not only navigate the challenges of today but also build a resilient and caring community for the future.

Emphasizing the importance of holistic well-being, strategic check-ins, and compassionate support, this episode of "SA Voices from the Field" provides invaluable insights for higher education professionals striving to support each other through life's inevitable challenges.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is season 12, continuing our journey through the past, present, and future of student affairs. I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay Voices from the Field host. Just a quick note that we recorded this episode prior to Melinda announcing her departure from Boston College. So while she references her work at BC quite a lot, she just wanted to let you know that she has moved to a new professional opportunity. Today on SA Voices from the Field, we're going to be having a conversation with one of our colleagues about how we navigate tragedy and loss amongst ourselves. We spend so much time doing this work with students that we often don't stop and think about how to support each other in the process or when things happen that are just part of the human experience.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:58]: So I'm pleased to welcome Doctor. Melinda Stoops. As a licensed psychologist, she entered higher education over twenty years ago as the director of a college counseling center. For the past fifteen years, she's served in various administrative roles in student affairs, including as dean of students, associate vice president for student affairs, and deputy title nine coordinator. Melinda prioritizes student well-being in all of her work and is particularly interested in increasing cross campus partnerships to achieve a collective impact on student health and wellness. She earned a PhD in counseling psychology from Indiana State University and an MA in counseling psychology from Radford University, as well as a BA in psychology from Smith College. Melinda, welcome to SA Voices from the Field.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:01:37]: Thanks so so much, Jill. I'm excited to be here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:39]: We are very glad to be talking to you today about the very important topic and probably under discussed topic in our field around how we support our colleagues going through trauma and tragedy because we know that in our profession, we're seeing an increase in that. We've been seeing that for quite a few years now. But before we dive into our main topic today, we always like to get to know our guests by asking you, how did you get to your current seat?

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:02:02]: Oh, that's a great question. I entered higher education as a director of a counseling center. I'm a psychologist. And so when I graduated, I worked in a couple of different settings and just really missed higher education and was fortunate to be able to be hired as the director of a counseling center and then over time was promoted and ended up making my way back into the mental health focus through my work with student health and wellness. And so I've been serving as the associate vice president for student health and wellness at Boston College for a number of years and really find it's a nice combination as a psychologist and as a higher ed administrator.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:43]: What does your portfolio currently include?

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:02:46]: Right now, I oversee the areas related to student health and wellness, which includes university health services, primary care sports medicine, the counseling center, the center for student wellness, and I also work closely with a care team that works with students impacted by sexual violence. And I also serve as the university deputy title line coordinator.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:08]: That's a lot on your plate right now.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:03:10]: It is. There are some days where it feels like more than others, but that's the nature of the beast, I guess, in higher education.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:16]: And eventually, we'll do another episode on the title nine updates. It's been a minute, but I would imagine that we're gonna see some additional changes to the proposed rules at some point very soon, and that will be another set of challenges for us to navigate as a field.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:03:31]: Definitely. That feels like it's a constantly moving piece of work that we need to adjust to.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:36]: Yeah. For about the last twenty years or so, I think there's been a rule change every time there's been an administration change. But with all of the kind of well-being components on your plate right now, our profession is really wholly and solely focused on the weld wellness and well-being of our students, which is where we've been focused and where we should be focused. But oftentimes, we don't necessarily translate or apply that same care or those same strategies of care to our teams or our staff members or those of us that interact regularly with trauma. And that happens for a lot of us in student affairs. But also we have our own worlds that are going at the same time as we're exhibiting care for our students. And I know personally we've had quite a bit of loss in the field as of late, loss and tragedy, and just people navigating their own personal needs around, trauma and grief. And so I'm looking forward to talking to you today about how we can translate some of that work, and apply that to, the people that we work with day in and day out.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:36]: So why don't we start with what are some of the core principles that you think are most critical when we're working with students in a care setting, not from a psychological perspective?

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:04:46]: Not from a clinical perspective. So in terms of our work with students, I think we look at student and well-being as as a whole person, that well-being encompasses many different elements. So a lot of times we think about that as a physical element of well-being, but also emotional, spiritual. There's a lot of different dimensions of well-being, and we'll see different models for that. Some have seven dimensions, some have nine. But the bottom line is they all recognize that we have more than one way of being healthy. And so it's really when we look at an individual's wellness, whether it's a student or an individual who's not a student, we really wanna look at it in terms of the whole person. And also, really, as much as we can from a prevention framework and and not waiting for things to escalate it and get to the point where it becomes an emergency, but really look at it early on.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:05:38]: If if someone's not doing well, what can we do to help them take care of themselves and and learn good self care as a foundation for everything moving forward?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:48]: You mentioned there's a couple of models with varying dimensions. Do you have any models that you particularly rely on in your day to day practice?

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:05:55]: Well, here at Boston College, our Center for Student Wellness does a great job of prevention work, and they really simplified it into just keeping it in three areas. And so they drill down from from other models, but basically trying to get students to think about wellness in terms of mind, body and soul. And so it's an easy way to just zoom in and make it simple rather than having to remember seven to nine different areas. And so if you think about the mind can be stress management, it can be self talk, mental health, things you do, the body, of course, it's a physical body, and then the soul, what nourishes your soul, whether it's something spiritual or whether it's something like being with your friends can nourish your soul as well. And so we keep it very basic in terms of those three things, and it's really easy to keep those in mind as as you're thinking about self care.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:46]: Are there any tried and true practices that you have in the wellness space and the prevention lens that have served you really well over the years and through generations of college students?

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:06:55]: I think the things that serve us the best are the most basic, most simple things. The the more complicated you get, like anything, it's it's harder to pick up and harder to carry on and continue with. So one thing that I think is a good tried and true that is really helpful is the idea of breathing and doing this and teaching it in different kinds of ways. So there are something very simple called rainbow breathing, where you picture almost moving your finger along a rainbow and that you breathe in as you go up the rainbow and then breathe out as you go down, if that makes sense, the arc of the rainbow. And so you can do that where you follow each color on the rainbow and then repeat it. And the idea is it's having you sort of slow your breathing and focus on your breathing. There's a technique called box breathing, which is also very popular right now. And it's the idea of picturing a box and you breathe in on one side, breathe out on the other, and hold your breath at one point.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:07:54]: And the bottom line is the idea of having people really focus on their breathing and controlling your breathing can be really helpful in a couple of ways. One, it makes you focus on the present. So you're not distracted by everything else that's going on, what's bothering you at the moment, but just really being attuned to the moment. And, also, it can be really helpful in managing anxiety, for example. Sometimes when you're anxious, your breathing can be affected. And so, again, slowing your breathing, relaxing can help you calm down in the moment. So I think that's something that you see a lot of people doing is a lot of practitioners focusing on breathing exercises. And, again, even thinking of simple things you can do with movement, we're not focused on go out and run that marathon or go out and run three miles.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:08:41]: It's like just move, go for a walk in between classes or just get up and stretch or and be you know, the things that you can do that are short and sort of get you moving and help you feel better in the short run. So I think there are more complicated things that that we can do, and and there are things that certainly, we teach our students in lots of different ways. But the idea of just these short things that can make you feel better in the moment can go a long way. Also, one thing that we do here at BC, and and I know is becoming increasingly popular, is the idea of health coaches, but not like you picture a coach at a gym or where your team, but student peer coaches that can talk to you about nutrition, exercise, stress management, and short, like, half hour sessions and give you some tips peer to peer on it. And students have really found that helpful.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:34]: Would you mind taking us through a rainbow breathing exercise? I think that might be really valuable for our listeners. They can probably do this wherever they're listening. Sure.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:09:42]: I'd be happy to do so. So one thing you can do, if it's helpful for you, is to actually take a pencil and piece of paper and draw a rainbow. And so I would suggest if you're doing that, that you picture maybe five arcs on the rainbow just to keep it simple. So five lines if you picture. And if you don't draw it out, just picture the five lines and picture how at the top of the rainbow, the top one is bigger than the one below it if you picture and so the how it goes smaller. And so what you're going to do is take your finger, and in a minute, we'll do this together. But you're going to start at the bottom left corner of the rainbow, and you're going to trace the arc of the rainbow and trace it all the way back down to the bottom where you're on the other side. And then on that side, what you can do is then keep your finger on that side and go to the next arc right below it, and then you're going to trace that up and all the way across to the other side.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:10:43]: And then you're going to do that again for the smaller one, and then we'll do that along the five. And how I like to do it is tracing it up and go down, and then start at the bottom and go back up to the top. So you sort of have two cycles of the rainbow. And so when you're at the top arc, I'll breathe in. And then when you get to the top of whatever arc you're on, you breathe out. So I'll take you through it right now, and I'll trace a rainbow and just picture tracing a rainbow along with me. And I will walk you through it verbally for the first round, and then the second round, I'll let you pace yourself with the breathing, if that makes sense. So we're going to start with the outer.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:11:24]: So you're going to go up the rainbow, breathe in. Now we're at the top and breathe out. Now move over to the next one and breathe in and breathe out. Now we're gonna go up, breathe in, Breathe out. Breathe in. Breathe out. Breathe in. And breathe out.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:12:11]: And now do it on your own starting with the inner arc, and then I'll do my own and we'll stop together. Just keep tracing your rainbow. Hey. How did that work for you, Jill?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:52]: I feel very relaxed suddenly. I like learning in these ways because while we do this for the benefit of our listeners, I also get the benefit of it as we're going along.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:13:02]: Yeah. I do too. Like, when I stop and do it, I'm like, okay. Now I can relax. And so you don't necessarily need a rainbow to do this. As I said, you just trace it on on any surface with your finger or even picture it in the air. But a rainbow is nice to look at when you're doing it as well. And really, you're just inhaling and exhaling and focusing on your breathing.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:13:22]: And that's really the trick to it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:23]: So this is one thing that we can all do as people to come back to the moment or to the present when there's stress going on, when things are are hard and it's such a fast thing we can do. I know it's very, very difficult for for those of us who have, like, back to back calendars or are just running from crisis to crisis or difficult moment to difficult moment. And this takes thirty seconds, one minute to recenter. So I think that's a good thing.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:13:47]: Yeah. And that's an excellent point if you think about it. And if you're in back to back meetings and someone says, oh, you know, there's a student here to see you. You can say, tell them I'll be right out. And if you needed to take a minute to do the rainbow breathing, no one would even notice that there was this huge delay in you coming out. So it really is a nice way to regroup between meetings if you need to.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:07]: Are there other strategies that you might offer for professionals to find that moment to bring their best selves to the next student they're working with?

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:14:15]: Well, that's a great question. I think just walking is a great one. And you don't have to go out and do a big walk. Like, even if it's just doing a loop around the office or walking downstairs real quick and right back up. Again, it gets your heart going. If you're feeling sort of tired, it'll get your blood flowing and make you feel alert afterwards. So I feel like that's something that can be really helpful too to just help you get moving and regroup. And, also, if if you're distracted by something that's on your mind, it can be good because when you're walking, you'll probably just notice things around you, which can be a different type of distraction.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:14:51]: So as you're walking, you can intentionally say, okay. I'm gonna pay attention to what I'm hearing and and what I'm seeing as I'm walking to just distract myself from whatever is is in the back of my mind that I wanna leave behind me for the next meeting. And so that's another great example as well. And also just stop and get a drink of water. We all talk about being hydrated, but I think also just, again, focusing on the physical sensation of drinking something can, again, draw your attention to that. So what you're trying to do is sort of ground yourself in different kinds of ways that could be helpful.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:23]: So as I mentioned at the top of the episode, one of the goals in us introducing your voice to the SA Voices audience was to give us some some good strategies for how to navigate tragedy amongst ourselves. Because we know how to do it when we're supporting students. We don't necessarily know how to do it when we're supporting each other. So can you talk to us a little bit about how that works in your world and any advice you have for those of us that are working through both elements?

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:15:52]: Grief, whether it's a form of a death or some type of other type of tragedy is really, really hard. And I think first of all, especially in the in the workforce where everyone brings something different to the plate, and we don't know what someone's past experience in in dealing with loss has been like or what they're coming in with. So I think, one, recognizing that and giving each other grace to sort of be themselves and to take care of themselves in the way they need to take care of themselves, I think can be really, really helpful for starters. And I also think checking in with people and and how are you doing, what do you need, how's your day going can be really, really helpful. So for starters, I think it's really about checking in with folks and recognizing that what I need could be very different from what you may need or what someone else does. And so if they say, oh, I need this, my job isn't their question whether they really need that or not. It's like, okay. Thank you for telling me, and let's see if we can get that for you.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:16:59]: So I think the caretaking, there can be lots of different layers to it and with different people in the workforce, lots of different ways that it plays out.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:08]: That checking in with people, I think, is is such a critical moment, especially if you're in a supervisory capacity to be able to say, I'm here as a human being to a human being first and foremost rather than a supervisor. And we know that we can't take that identity off. That's not something that we can that we can put to the side just from the environment that we're occupying, but it's a good space to be able to to do that. And also, I think gives the person being asked the space to answer that question how they feel, feel like they have the capacity to answer that question. So I'm wondering if you have advice as a supervisor, how you would approach that knowing that every person being asked that question is gonna have a different sense of boundaries at work or a different sense of how they would feel safe responding to that question. Yeah.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:17:48]: That's a great question. I mean, I think first of all, you're right that at work, we all have different boundaries. We have different relationships with our supervisees that even though someone may supervise five people, for example, their relationships are different with those five people. And so I don't think there's any type of canned script you should use. But I think recognizing your relationship, I think one, it's important to acknowledge it and to check-in about it. And someone might say, I'm fair, I'm fine, or I don't want to talk about it. And I think we respect that if they don't want to talk about it. But you can also say, well, if at any point you feel like you wanna talk about it, that I'm here for you, or here are some other resources and letting them know what resources exist.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:18:32]: And more and more you see colleges and universities having EAP programs or someone on campus that's more of a confidential resource if they need to talk to someone. So there can be good resources you can point someone to if they don't want to talk to you as a supervisor, there could be someone else who feels more comfortable engaging with you about it. And I think this is where I think you have to rely on your judgment in the moment about what makes the most sense. But if something is a recent loss, then maybe that supervision session just you just need to listen to your your staff person talk about what they're needing and and how they're grieving. And if there's one or two things you need to take care of, then we can get to those quickly. But, really, if this is what you need today from me is to listen to you and to support you, I can do that even though that's not what we normally do for the whole session. That's okay today because it makes perfect sense this is what you need. Also, though, I think if something's happening in the workplace that you as a supervisor also likely impacted.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:19:35]: And so I think that's where it can be a balance where I think one, it's important to take care of yourself and you find out what you need to do to take care of yourself, whether it's talking to someone on campus or someone off campus. But also, it's fine to acknowledge with someone you're supervising that you're having a hard time to, it doesn't mean you should take that whole session and and make it about you because that's not what they need right then. But I think it's okay to be like, yeah, I'm really hurting too. And, like, if they say something that actually resonates with you or you had a similar reaction, I think it's okay to share that because they're not your client that, like, if you're a therapist, they're not your client or they're not the student that you take care of, you're in a different role. And I think being genuine with them can be really helpful as you're dealing with things as well. But being mindful that as you meet with them, that you are their supervisor, and really, it should be more about helping them than them helping you, if that makes sense. Because you can get help from your supervisor or from somewhere else. So it's not that you have to hold everything yourself, but sort of recognizing the the different roles and giving them permission to do what they need to do.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:46]: And at the same time, display a willingness to be vulnerable if it's the right thing for that relationship. Yeah. Given that you're clinically trained and so many of your team members are, what advice do you have for others in student affairs who have clinical training, who are trying to offer support in the moment in that supervision relationship without exceeding the boundaries of what that is and maybe accidentally or inadvertently sliding into that clinical space when that's not what you meant to do?

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:21:10]: Oh, that's a great question because I think boundaries are really, really important. And so I think it's one thing to say to someone, you've seemed like you're really struggling this week, and and I'm concerned about you. And I want to check-in and see how you're doing. And And is there anything we can do here that would be helpful for you as opposed to taking on the clinical role and trying to dive deeper into what is it that's distressing them so much and and helping them work through it. That's not your role. But I think your role can be to acknowledge it and to help them connect with resources, which are not you. Like, you're not the therapy support you're advising them to. It's to the EAP.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:21:53]: And they may choose to say, no. I don't wanna see the EAP, and that's their right as well. And so I really think it's really important to be mindful of your role. With that said, I think people with a clinical background, as part of our training, we have talked a lot about boundaries and and and knowing our role. And so I think that just that foundational training is really helpful in just reminding yourself that they're not your clients and that even if you're not practicing, that they're not even your student in a way, you may take care of them in a different kind of way, that they're your colleague. They may be someone you're supervising. They may be just a colleague across the hall who wants to talk to you. And so be mindful that I think we bring things to the table that can be helpful, such as strong listening skills and being empathetic and knowing of resources in a way that some other people might not, but we're not there to help them work through the grief process.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:22:53]: That's not our role.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:54]: Let's talk about it from a peer to peer perspective. Maybe it's your direct colleague or somebody that is in a different department that you that you wanna be able to check-in with because you know something's happened. And maybe the distance of that relationship is different. Right? We all have colleagues at work who we're very close to from a work perspective, and we have colleagues that were maybe just more adjacent to, and that's pretty normal, especially in a large matrix organization. What advice and tips do you have for checking in and following up and providing support, knowing that grief is something that carries longevity. And in my experience, anyway, a lot of times people can be very strong at the beginning with checking in. But as we get further and further away from the moment where the the critical event occurred, we sometimes kind of back away just over time.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:23:37]: Yeah. And I think at some level, that's natural that people's needs may change and people may need fewer check ins as time goes on. But I do think that, again, thinking how everyone's different, we can't necessarily make assumptions. So for starters, I'd say checking in is better than not checking in. That even if someone's like, I'm fine, I don't need to talk about it. At some level, there's often the appreciation that you checked in even if they don't wanna talk about it. Because an absence of a check-in might signify like, they might think you don't care or that you're not thinking of them. So I think it's okay to check-in.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:24:13]: It's also okay to say, you can check-in and not know what to say. You don't have to have the right words, and you could even be transparent and say, I'm checking in. I don't really know what to say or what you need, but I've been thinking about you, and I'm just checking in on how you're doing. And and that can go a long way as well that as a peer, you don't have to have the answers. You don't have to know anything about helping them other than just acknowledging that you're there and and asking them if there's anything you can help with or or what do they need. And I think that's really important. I think sometimes people avoid checking in because they worry they'll say the wrong thing or they won't know what to do when I think most times that check-in in and of itself is really, really meaningful. And you're right that over time, we naturally stop checking in, and and that sort of trails off.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:25:04]: And there's a point where people don't need check ins anymore. Now with that said, everyone's different. So I think if there are times where there might be a natural point to check-in. So for example, it might be that this person had a certain role on campus, and there was an event that came up that would remind everyone of of this person because they're not there to do that, that might be a natural point to check-in and say, hey, I was thinking about so and so today because of this, and how are you doing? And so sometimes I think there are natural ways of checking in.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:36]: Let's go for the kind of the third version of this relationship, which is you're the supervisee and, you know, your supervisor has experienced something maybe you haven't. What is the the role of the supervisee in this case, knowing that that power dynamic does exist? And how can that check-in feel most appropriate or be best acknowledged?

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:25:54]: And I think, again, the idea of checking it in and just saying, for example, if it's a loss they experienced that you didn't, is saying, I know you were close to this person, or I know we work closely with this person, or just sort of acknowledging that that relationship exists. And I just wanted to check-in and see how you're doing. And, you know, I know that that's your supervisor. But, again, unless it's your first day of work, you have no relationship with your supervisor. The idea is that you're checking in and asking them how they're doing. I think that, again, they would appreciate the check-in. They might not go into a lot of details and spend the whole time talking about it. But I think just even acknowledging that and saying, like, hey.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:26:32]: I'm thinking of you and even just something concrete. Like, if there's anything you want me to help with work wise, I'm happy to pick something up if you need a little time. And so, again, giving them an option of them saying, oh, you know what? At the end of this week, there's a this event I'm supposed to go to. And if you could do that instead, it would be great for me to just be able to leave and go home on time that day. And so I think sometimes just there are different ways of helping and sometimes the gift of time and being able to step away so that you can process things is really helpful.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:03]: Are there any other strategies or kind of approaches that you'd like to share when we're navigating grief and tragedy amongst ourselves?

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:27:10]: It's so tough. And I'll go back to, again, that everyone is different. So I think we need to just be very careful not to make any judgments about how someone's responding. And that could be on either side that there may seems look like there's someone who's not really impacted by it when in fact, we don't know what they're thinking or feeling, and we shouldn't make assumptions about someone else's experience. And so also on the flip side, grief, there's no there's enough timeline where I can tell you, oh, in two months, you're gonna feel better or in six months or whatever. And so everyone agrees differently and on different timelines. And so if you may feel that you're doing better, and starting to move forward and not feel sad every time you come into the office, but that doesn't mean everyone else is moving forward. And so I think we need to recognize that we have a shared experience.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:28:01]: But yet within that shared experience, everyone is in their own timeline and their own process. And so being accepting of that is really, really important. And these points in in the grief cycle can also you may feel you're doing better and then something happens that can set you back a bit. So for example, one thing I lost a colleague years ago. She passed away suddenly. And one thing that struck me at the time was when her office was cleaned out, we hit me that she had passed away because we had her office hadn't been touched for a few weeks after her passing, and then everything got cleaned out. And seeing the empty office was sort of bringing up everything again. And so things like that or even work tasks needing to be divided or do you bring someone in the interim role? There can be lots of things that that sort of step backwards as we step forward.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:28:54]: So recognizing that we certainly can make strides forward, and then there may be things that come up in the workforce that make us take a couple steps back. And everyone again is different in that respect.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:05]: Thank you for sharing that. Oh, you're welcome. I'm gonna move us into our theme based questions for the season. Again, our theme this season is the past, present, and future of student affairs. So I've got one question for you on each theme. On the past, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively let go of?

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:29:25]: That's a big question. I think the idea that student affairs is often pegged as the group that is responsible for all things students outside of the classroom, and that's a big answer. But I think sometimes when there are challenges with students or even just someone's, like, saying, well, our students go home on the weekends. You gotta get them to stay here. You know, it it falls on student affairs. Right? I think, like anything, as we move along in higher ed, I think efforts are being made more and more to undo silos. And that goes with student affairs in our tasks, that a lot of our tasks and our skill set are specifically focused on student development and how to help our students grow and thrive, but also it truly takes a village. And actually, I think sometimes the best responses to some challenging situations.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:30:24]: And I think this most, like, most recently with all of the protests and demonstrations last year is really, like, a whole campus effort. And so I think that's one thing of letting go of is thinking, okay, that sometimes a whole community resolution to challenging situations is better than any one division. So that's a long answer to one thing to maybe get rid of, but it's shifting away from the silos. I think it's something that a higher ed in general is doing and is moving in a great direction.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:50]: On the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs?

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:30:54]: I think going back to health and wellness, I think that really at this point in time, there is so much focus in a positive way on student well-being. I think sadly, it came because of the pandemic and that we had talked for years about the mental health crisis of students. But I think the pandemic shifted that in a way that it was the mental health crisis, but also acknowledging the power of relationships and the idea of loneliness and social isolation and the digital environment, which can sometimes be unhealthy. And so I think as a result, what we're seeing is much more of a proactive prevention approach and also more of a public health lens in looking at student well-being, which I think is excellent. And I'm really excited to see that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:45]: And the future. In an ideal world, what does the field need to do to thrive towards our future?

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:31:51]: I think if talking specifically about student affairs now, I think we really need to look at how we develop our newer professionals in the field. And what I mean by this is is we have a lot of wonderful people come in. They're excited about the work. And you do see newer professionals, I think more so than in the past. And I don't have data to support this. So this is just my anecdotal piece, but feeling like more often than in the past, they're choosing to leave higher ed after a few years. And I think there's lots of things that can play a role into that. It could be that maybe they find a role elsewhere where the salary's higher or they may say, oh, if if I go work here, I can work remote all the time, and I don't have to come into campus, or I don't have to be on call.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:32:40]: And so there's always a reason why anyone could leave any job. But I think there's so many rewards in higher education and in student affairs that outweigh these other things. And I think what we really need to do is when newer professionals come to the field and start that we really need to focus on supporting them and as they grow into their roles to going back to the the check-in piece to check-in with people to provide professional development so that they see a path forward to and get excited about training opportunities, mentoring relationships, professional development opportunities, I think that can go a long way down the road. And so I think moving forward, that's something we really need to do. We have a lot of people in student affairs retiring or close to retirement age. And as we think about the profession, it's really important as the next generation moves in that they really love this work and stick around.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:42]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Chris (Producer) [00:33:47]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. The twenty twenty five TPE, better known as the placement exchange, will be having its spring placement career fair coming up on February 20 with interviews happening on March 3 through the seventh. Registration for these events closes on February 17. This spring placement event brings together highly talented student affairs candidates and top employers in a fully virtual setting. Spring placement offers a unique opportunity for personalized candidate screening and interview experiences. If you are currently looking for your next position or your first position, TPE is a great place to go to be able to be able to find opportunities and to be able to search further for your future career. If you wanna find out more, go to the placementexchange.org.

Chris (Producer) [00:34:41]: That's all one word, the placementexchange.org. Just recently, the Journal of Women and Gender in Higher Education put out a call for manuscripts for the 2027 special issue. The Journal of Women and Gender in Higher Education is going to be having a special issue called Diasporic Black Women, Global Insights for the Future of Higher Education. This special issue aims to elevate the perspectives of Black women who are epistemologically committed to knowledge generation in and through the global South. By curating articles that center diasporic black women's insight and theorizations, the journal is seeking to explore solutions and possibilities for a more equitable and emancipatory future in higher education. All NASPA members should have received a email about this. And if you have a manuscript that you would like to submit, manuscripts must be a maximum of 25 double spaced pages and follow APA style and submissions are due by 06/15/2025. Another professional development opportunity that's coming up is the Collaborate twenty twenty five conference.

Chris (Producer) [00:35:51]: Collaborate twenty twenty five is an innovative global partnership in student affairs and services between NASPA, IUCAA, which is the European University College Association, and SAI or Student Affairs Ireland. Collaborate twenty twenty five will be hosted by Munster Technological University. This conference will be happening June 18 through June 20 in Cork, Ireland. And it is an amazing opportunity to be able to bring together people from both Europe, The United States, and beyond to be able to come together to find new ways to work collaboratively together in helping our students succeed. Highly encourage you to check out this great professional development experience. You can find out more at iuca,euca,.eu/collaborate-2020five. To stay on the international theme, another international conference that's coming up is the nineteenth annual Manasa NASPA conference, which is happening April 27 to April 30 in Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates. The MANASA NASPA conference provides student affairs professionals with the knowledge and skills to effectively address and support college students.

Chris (Producer) [00:37:02]: MANASA, which stands for Middle East, North Africa, South, as well as NYU Abu Dhabi, invites you to the nineteenth annual MANASA NASPA conference that's going to be held in The United Arab Emirates on Sunday, April 27 through Wednesday, 04/30/2025. This three day conference is an opportunity to connect with colleagues regionally and abroad. The topic of the conference this year is Beyond Borders, exploring global and local perspectives on student experience in the Manassa area. Student affairs is playing a vital role in shaping students' experiences in higher education institutions. The nineteenth Manassa Conference Organizing Committee invites you to participate in this great conference that's going to bring together people from around the world and help you to be able to identify new opportunities to connect with your students on a different level and connect with students globally on a different level. Highly encourage you to check out the conference for yourself. There is a schedule at a glance that is out on the NASPA website. If you go under events on the NASPA website, you'll be able to find out more on this conference as well as being able to register for the conference.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:14]: We currently are in the regular registration rate, so you can still register to attend this amazing conference. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself. Where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:35]: Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:46]: Chris, thank you so much for helping us learn what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Melinda, we've got our lightning round for you. So I've got seven questions for you to answer in about ninety seconds. You ready to roll? I am. Alright. Question number one. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:40:04]: Oh, this is a tough question. I think it would be something from Hamilton, actually. I'm not sure which one, but something with a little attitude.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:15]: Number two, when you were five years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:40:19]: Maybe a nurse. I think I wanted to be a nurse back then.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:21]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:40:24]: There are a number of people I see as mentors, but I think the one that has had the greatest impact me, this is not lightning round, but I'll make it quick, is a former supervisor of mine years ago who has since retired, doctor Suzanne Conley at Framingham State University because of two things. One, she saw potential in me. She helped me get recognized for my work, and she was very transparent. And I always appreciated knowing what she was thinking, and I feel like I have carried that transparency with me. And also, she had a great sense of humor, and I also feel like I bring humor more to my work. So she say shaped me into the professional I am.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:05]: Number four, your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:41:07]: Okay. In the spirit of a read that makes me not stressed out and takes me away from work, I would say I would use anything by Stephen King as an escape from reality. And sometimes, you know, you see scenarios that you're like, as a student affairs professional, I could handle that. So that's my essential student affairs read.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:30]: Number five, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:41:33]: That's a tough question because I don't watch a lot of TV, but I've been watching Jeopardy almost every night for as long as I can remember. Even when I was in college, I recorded whatever. So I say Jeopardy.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:45]: Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:41:49]: This is very sad, but I don't really listen to podcasts.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:53]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional? Ugh.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:41:58]: Well, I am going to give a shout out to my family. And that's David, my husband, and my daughter Molly, who is in college and my daughter Addison. And I say that because, you know, at the end of the day, they're there with me. And as we talk about sort of highs and lows in our life, like, they're not the highs and lows. I mean, they are, but they're also there for me in moments of highs and lows. And so talk about people who, you know, always have your back. So I'm shouting out to my family.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:27]: Melinda, it's been so valuable to learn from you today and to hear your insights on what's going on to support each other in the space of student affairs. If anyone would like to reach you after the show, how can they find you?

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:42:38]: Sure. The best way to find me would be on LinkedIn, Melinda Stoops. You will see me right there, and I would be happy to connect with you and feel free to message me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:48]: Melinda, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:42:50]: Thanks, Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:56]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners, and we continue to be grateful that you spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at essayvoices@nasa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show, and please leave us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really helps other student affairs professionals find our show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:35]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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Exploring Student Affairs with International Grad Students

The field of student affairs is continuously evolving, adapting to diverse educational landscapes worldwide. In this week's Student Affairs Voices from the Field, hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton, we delve into the experiences and perspectives of six master's students from the hybrid master's course offered in collaboration with the European Council on Student Affairs (EECA) and NASPA. These students, hailing from various parts of Europe and beyond, share their insights on the past, present, and future of student affairs.

Embracing the Past One recurring theme in the discussion was the value of preserving certain elements of student affairs' history. Simone Cameron Cohen emphasized the indispensable role of student voices in shaping university policies and support structures. She highlighted Ireland's robust student union organizational structure that ensures student representation in university governance, a system embedded in the nation’s legislation.

Jake McGrew and Giacomo Bacarelli, on the other hand, pointed out the need to dissolve the silos between academic and student affairs. Jake stressed that combining these areas is crucial for holistic student support, a sentiment echoed by Giacomo who reflected on his personal experiences in Italy's developing student affairs landscape. This theme underscores the necessity of integrating student welfare into the broader educational framework, fostering an environment where academics and student services support each other.

Current Trends in Student Affairs Currently, student affairs professionals worldwide are paying increased attention to student mental health and well-being. Simone noted that institutions are now better equipped with specialized services, from counseling to academic advising, emphasizing a holistic approach to student support. Jake expanded on this, mentioning the positive shift in student attitudes towards utilizing mental health services, even in regions where stigma was historically prevalent.

Federico highlighted the importance of etiquette and institutional engagement in student affairs, advocating for attention to individual growth and freedom of thought, which is crucial in nurturing well-rounded individuals.

Envisioning the Future Looking ahead, the consensus among the guests points towards increased collaboration and resource sharing across institutions. Simone and Giacomo both stressed the value of international cooperation, sharing best practices, and codifying these for broader implementation. This approach not only enriches the practices within individual institutions but also fosters a global network of support and innovation.

Jake suggested that for regions like Continental Europe, there's a growing recognition of the importance of student affairs, leading to a greater acceptance and integration of these services within the educational framework. This trend is promising for the future development of student affairs in areas where the field is still emerging.

Conclusion The insights from these international graduate students paint a picture of a dynamic and evolving field where student voices are paramount, mental health is at the forefront, and collaboration is key to future success. By learning from each other and breaking down traditional silos, student affairs professionals can better support the holistic development of students worldwide. As these emerging leaders in student affairs continue their journey, their experiences and innovative approaches will undoubtedly shape the future of the profession.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is season 12, continuing our journey through the past, present, and future of student affairs. I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay Voices from the Field host. Welcome to a very special episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field. I'm thrilled today to be joined by six master's students who are currently enrolled in the hybrid master's course in collaboration with EECA, which is the European Council on Student Affairs and NASPA. This course is taught with the the great collaboration of LUNA University in Rome, and it's been my great privilege to teach the technology module for this course. As we're on the theme of past, present and future of student affairs, I wanted to introduce our listeners to the students who are taking this course and get their perspectives on what's important in student affairs today and why they're learning in this program.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:07]: So I'm gonna introduce our students one by one as I see them. And so I'd love for you to tell us your name, your pronouns, and maybe where you are on planet Earth, including what you're doing for work right now. So, Jake, we'll start with you.

Jake McGrew [00:01:18]: Hello, everyone. My name is Jake McGrew, hehim. I am American from Oregon, but I am currently living in Kyiv, Ukraine working at the student life office at American University Kyiv.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:29]: And we'll go to Simone.

Simone Cameron Cohen [00:01:30]: Hi, everyone. My name is Simone Cameron Cohen, sheher. I'm based in Trinity College Dublin in Ireland, and I am the student welfare and support officer for the School of Medicine.

Giacomo Bacarelli [00:01:39]: Giacomo. Hi. I'm Giacomo Bacarelli. I'm currently in, Terni, close to Rome, Italy. I work for the European University College Association where I am a project officer.

Laura Malakowski [00:01:50]: Laura. Hello, everyone. I'm Laura Malakowski. I pronounce it differently. I'm from Lithuania, from Lithuania, Yale Science University, and now I am the Dean of Students. So mostly in my office, the students appear the main task, what we are working on and and looking for.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:08]: Federico.

Federico [00:02:08]: I'm Federico. Hello, everyone. I take care of cultural activities in the Cuir College in Rome.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:16]: And Lorenzo.

Lorenzo Caffurini [00:02:17]: Hi to everyone. My name is, Lorenzo Caffurini. I am the head of the secretary of the co Leukini College in Brescia, Italy.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:27]: Thank you all so much for agreeing to share your voice on the show today. Since we're on this theme of the past, present, and future of student affairs, I always love featuring current master's students because you're the future of the profession. You're here because you wanted to learn a little bit more to bolster your professional identity and development. I'm hoping you can tell us why you chose to take this one year master's program and how it's changing the way that you look at your work. And anyone can jump in on that. Go ahead, Jake.

Jake McGrew [00:02:56]: So my background is actually in teaching in high school and middle school teaching. I did that in The US as well as in Bulgaria. And so I moved to work at this university, American University, Kyiv, and I was put in charge of the student life office without having anyone around me who works for student life and no background in student life besides the normal student life you do as a teacher. So I really wanted some extra education, extra support, and more importantly, a network of other like minded student affairs professionals who I could work with and talk with and kind of bounce ideas off of. So that's mainly why I chose to be in this program for the education since I've never been in this position before as well as the network.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:36]: Simone, how about you?

Simone Cameron Cohen [00:03:37]: Similarly to Jake, I'm kind of a new post holder. So while I've worked in the university for a lot of years, I have a background from some time ago in student support. This role is the first of its kind based in a school within the college. So, again, I was a little bit peerless. There are a few people obviously, there are several people doing student affairs, but the specificity of what I'm doing, it's not there yet. It's growing now. But to have a network of people at a European level, at international level is fantastic. Like that to be able to learn a little bit more of what's possible in terms of supports and procedures and ways to do things.

Simone Cameron Cohen [00:04:15]: It's really great.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:16]: Yeah. I

Giacomo Bacarelli [00:04:17]: am very young, so I start to work, like, one year and a half ago. So for me, this world is completely new. In Italy, the stress Fuelsa First is not so developed. So most of students don't know what student services mean. So for me, since I start to work in IUCAA, I started to read books about Fuelsa First, be updated to learn, but a master, I think it's very important to have a basic knowledge, know where to build your profession. So this is why, and also I'm involved because I'm one of the organizers as part of YUCA. This is why I'm the tutor. So it is a great opportunity to participate in the master, be involved in, in the organization.

Giacomo Bacarelli [00:05:00]: And this is the motivation.

Laura Malakowski [00:05:02]: Laura. I would say that in Lithuania, in a lot of our universities, we do have that support and advising of students, but we do not have that, like, evidence based. So this is, like, the chance, for us to get really good background, good knowledge all the practices, all the communication between different countries, universities, so it's a great value of if we want to flourish this help of our students. And the Master, the modules, it's like support, first of all, for those who are next, who will help our students. So it's a good chance for us.

Federico [00:05:36]: This is my first work experience before I was a university student. I chose to train and work in this field because it's simply the most beautiful job in the world, and I want to grow for the guys I am lucky enough to work with every day. Also, my English is not very good, and this is a chance to learn by working.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:00]: I'm always incredibly impressed by anyone who can earn an educational degree in their second language. It's it's just amazing. Lorenzo.

Lorenzo Caffurini [00:06:07]: For me, this master degree is a great opportunity. It allows me to know new realities and organize new cultural activity also from an international perspective. I have a degree in law, and the law the world of student affairs is new to me. It is agreed to be able to work every day in a college and to be able to deepen my knowledge with master degree of this level.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:35]: Now all of you are working at universities that are not based in North America, and most of the NASPA members are either in The US or Canada. So I'm wondering if you can share maybe one element of student affairs that is happening in the country where you're living and working that might be unique or might be much different than, what somebody working in North America might be experiencing. Jake, let's start with you.

Jake McGrew [00:06:59]: So I come from The US, of course. So I have that background in interacting with student affairs as an American student. I never worked in the student affairs as an American, but as a student, I had a good feeling of what student affairs was. And in Ukraine, as I think in a lot of Europe, but even to, I think, to a higher extent is student affairs isn't really a thing here. It's very common just for students to go to class, do your classes, learn, and then go home. So that's been a challenge for me to not only and I have all Ukrainian students and Ukrainian staff. So I, as the sole person in the student life office, the director and the sole person, I've had to explain not only to students, but to staff and faculty the importance of student affairs and the reasons why we need to have mental health supports or reasons why we need to have strong student life. It's been fairly easy.

Jake McGrew [00:07:53]: It hasn't been that much of a challenge. My university has been pretty open to that, which is good, but that's been a challenge. Not to mention, of course, the war and everything, but that's a completely different thing that is just always there for us.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:05]: Limon, what's going on in Ireland?

Simone Cameron Cohen [00:08:07]: So I suppose what I find, having been sort of been to The UK and Europe a bit, our student union organizational structure in Ireland is really, really strong and is very student led, and it is essential to how we govern our universities. They are there to challenge and push us, which is fantastic, and they're there to support their students. And it is written into our legislation that they must be on the governing bodies of our universities and must be allowed to contribute in a very real way. And for us, I think it's wonderful that that they really do still embrace that sense of the importance of organization in that kind of nineteen sixties sort of organization, protest, but also engagement, real engagement with the issues that are affecting them as students, either within the college, but also in the wider society and how they react to that and push issues forward. So that is something that is still really strong here, which we're quite proud of.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:10]: That co governance being actually baked into laws and policies in the nation is incredibly meaningful. And I I wish that more more governing bodies would make it a priority to put students in positions to be driving decisions about their education. That's really special.

Simone Cameron Cohen [00:09:25]: It is.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:25]: I'm gonna go to Laura next. We'd like to know what's going on in Lithuania because our other three guests are all from Italy. So let's go to you first.

Laura Malakowski [00:09:32]: Yeah. Thank you. I would say that we are trying to do as much as possible, like other countries or American universities are doing. I know that, when we were, inventing this student's appearance in in my university, I was told that, Laura, you know, students' dean office was established in American part of university. So I wouldn't say that we are doing something new and something unique. It would be unique because, my university is more a medical university. So some specific things are really specific for our students, their health, their mentality, their problems will be some kind of different. But, you know, everything that that support, that, trying to give the hope for them, I think it doesn't matter.

Laura Malakowski [00:10:15]: Are you in US? Are you in Ireland? Or some work. Our students' fears, questions, challenges, they are almost everywhere the same. We have to work together for the flourishing of our students, so it doesn't matter. But Lithuania is doing, I think, the best of what what we can.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:31]: And finally, let's move over to what's going on that's unique in Italy. And any of the three of you, please feel free to chime in.

Giacomo Bacarelli [00:10:37]: If I can permit, I'm live in Italy, and I work in Italy, but I work in a European association. So for me, it could be better to talk about Europe because Europe is, you know, several countries. So every reality is different, but we have a unique situation where to move from one county to another is very easy. We don't need much industrial authorization, documentation. We can move from Italy to France or to Ireland with the same document I use every day to go everywhere in my city, in my country. So this is very useful to create synergy amongst students for offices in Europe, to permit students to meet each other, to have an international dialogue, to discover great organization as the European Parliament Commission Bank and other excellence in new whatever in Europe. So this is something, that as Europe has and is very, very important to remember because a unique condition in the world, this possibility and this easy access to other culture, countries, languages.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:48]: And the way that you serve students being incredibly different as well because it lends itself to a much more multicultural environment, I would imagine.

Giacomo Bacarelli [00:11:55]: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:56]: And either Frederico or Lorenzo, do you have anything to add about the specificity of student affairs in Italy?

Federico [00:12:02]: Yes. So I believe that compared to our way of managing life in the college, the possibility of comparing myself with country like America helps me to accompany the boys in their growth with a particular attention to each boy. Comparing students in their growth from boys to adults in is the most important thing we can do in, our life. I think this, giving trust to make people grow, this is what we do. This is our mission. And the hell in this international experience, I learned a lot in this sense.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:44]: Lorenzo, anything to add?

Lorenzo Caffurini [00:12:46]: Yes. I'm, totally agree with Giacomo. And, for me in Italy, Student affairs are not very developed with respect, other countries. There are service, yes, but they are dislocated. So in our case, there are no specific offices or specialized staff. As a college of merit in Italy, we have an association that is creating a virtuous network of contacts. And, this all thanks, to EOCA, the European Association. And so we have a lot to learn of, these new matters.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:28]: I'm going to go ahead and move us into our theme based questions for the season. So I have three questions. One on the past, one on the present, and one on the future of student affairs. And I'd love to hear each of you reflect on them. So on the past, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should carry forward or alternatively let go of? Jake, go ahead.

Jake McGrew [00:13:50]: One thing that I've noticed as I'm coming in into this role and even at a brand new university that is only on his third year, I still see it is the siloing of student affairs and academic affairs. I was just at the UCSAS conference in Malta, and that was actually one of the presentations was about that, how to integrate academic affairs and student affairs. And I think it's really, really important. I'm finding it's difficult, especially if you have leaders who are more specifically had they've always been in academics or they've always been in student affairs rather than kind of merging the two. And I think and I say this as a teacher who's really into academics, who's really into education, who is a student affairs person as well, that they're really we need to let go of the silo siloing and really work on combining the two and putting student affairs in all aspects of academic affairs and vice versa.

Laura Malakowski [00:14:44]: I'll give a shout

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:45]: out to doctor Chris Lewis, our co producer and audio engineer on the show who is currently the chair of the NASPA knowledge community for ZAPA, which is student affairs partnering with academic affairs. So if that's an interest of yours, highly encourage you to reach out to Chris Simone.

Simone Cameron Cohen [00:15:00]: For me, I think it is, again, embracing that student experience. Having a strong student voice has been so important to push student affairs along. Those students who stood up and sort of began to express what they really, really needed to get through college and thrive is something that is still important now. Having a constant current voice of the student as they are now means that we can work with them and provide the best supports that they need in the moment. So our institution is 400 and odd years old, but it has moved partly in in time with what the students' needs are. And sometimes it takes a little time to get the big cog moving, but when it does, when it gets momentum, it's great, but it's useless without that student voice.

Laura Malakowski [00:15:50]: I appreciate that that's been

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:51]: the core of student affairs since its inception, and that inception looks really different in different cultures, especially given that Trinity College is older than most of the institutions that I'm personally used to working with. But it's very neat to hear that that has remained part of the most salient identity of student affairs. Anyone else like to offer their thoughts on the past of student affairs in terms of something we should either let go of or keep going with?

Laura Malakowski [00:16:12]: I could add that, I think still the past of student affairs is with us Because, for example, for us in in our university, it's we need to prove that student affairs has a huge role in the life of students, life of institution, that we, as well, need the resources, facilities, everything, like other academical, stuff or academical, questions as well. Students at PSR is very important. So I think we are still growing that understanding of of all the institution that this is what we have to talk about, to work with, and to try to do the best for our students. It was in the past, but not very good at this moment, I would think.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:52]: And I think likely in the present for a lot of student affairs areas around the world where the justification for how we're serving students is always a question from a budgetary perspective. So it's both interesting and a little bit disheartening that that's something that we're facing no matter where we are on the planet in this profession.

Giacomo Bacarelli [00:17:09]: I don't know very, very much this history of experience. At first, I'm really young and but, I can bring my past experience as a student because what was very few years ago, and I have to say that, for example, in Italy, my experience, I didn't know experience at first until two years ago. And my personal experience is that a lot of the students leave because they didn't have someone to help them. No. The moment of day where you are in the university is a moment where you are not defined. Who am I? Who will be? What I will do? These are question you bring with you for several years. So you need to define yourself, but you can't. You are waiting at this a very bad moment because you are preparing for something you don't know.

Giacomo Bacarelli [00:17:54]: And for example, after a lot of crisis, the perception of the reality of students is like life will be worse. So we have a lot of crisis and a lot of us stop to study and live because of that. So students are first is very important. It permits the students to discover this talent, to be able to face problems, all this problem and this crisis, to have someone who believe in you and someone that is fundamental, make the difference in the student's life, change the value, the perspective. I'm doing something because I have talents. I know that someone believe in me. When you are in a delicate moment, when you are building your confidence, your self perspective. So since my experience of the relevant students at first, I have to say that this is crucial, the crucial part of the university and is much as important as the academic.

Giacomo Bacarelli [00:18:52]: Because without it, students are not able to learn with all their, potential.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:58]: Welfare and well-being at the absolute core of everything we do in the field, for sure. Alright. Let's move into the present. And I would like to know from you all, what's happening in your opinion in the field of student affairs that's going well?

Giacomo Bacarelli [00:19:10]: About the European students at first, I have to say there are a lot of excellences of very great realities, like the one of Federico of Lorenzo. What we talked we say this that there are not so many, not every university. It's like small private or public, but very few organization that are very prepared, provide a great training for students in every kind of field. They have an holistic growth. There is, as Simona will say after me and Saint Jake, a reality like the Americans or universities or the angle of some countries which has a great strong students of first culture. But there are others like Italy or other in the center of Europe where there is no history of students of first or not recently sort of students of first. So there are only few initiative, very great level, height level, but not that cannot reach everyone.

Federico [00:20:09]: I think it is important to maintain an academic and professional life studies in a student affair. This is a characteristic that risk regain loss with the the new generation. An etiquette learning to relate in a institutional way and with style is a beautiful tradition to maintain in order to orient myself, oneself, well in life.

Laura Malakowski [00:20:35]: I'd like to pick up

Simone Cameron Cohen [00:20:36]: on something that Jacqueline was saying actually in his last two points, and I think it's something that is going really, really well, which is that no matter what level everybody's at and what where they've gotten to, whether they're brand new to student services or if it's more embedded, what is being recognized is the absolute need to support student well-being, that students matter. And for us, where we are in Ireland, we have really good supports that have been growing over the last number of years and have been professionalizing over the last number of years. So, like, for example, in Trinity, we have, like, a disability services office. We have the student counseling service. We have the health service. We have the gym and sports and recreation. We have the tutorial, which is like academic advisers is what other people would call them. So we have a whole suite of things, but that's because students matter and we're we want to make sure that they are looked after and their well-being is recognized and supported.

Simone Cameron Cohen [00:21:35]: And I think that's kind of what Giacomo was saying that it is a tender moment whether you're a traditional student who's coming in as a school leaver or somebody returning to college or someone in between. And I think no matter at what level people are, I think it's the recognition that this is important. Jake?

Jake McGrew [00:21:52]: I'll build off of what Simone was saying because I really think there has been a a huge emphasis on supporting in student affairs, supporting student mental health, especially student mental health. After COVID, I think it really became a lot bigger because I because I remember when I was in university in Oregon, and this was fifteen years ago. And, I mean, we did have mental health services, but it wasn't nearly as it was just, like, someone to just talk to. And now even in my university in Ukraine, it's an American style university, but it's still in a country that, unfortunately, in the past, mental health services have been stigmatized very heavily. And even then, students are requesting this, and if staff is requesting this, that we have more and more mental health services through the student life off through the student affairs department. And so the fact that there's so much emphasis on this, especially at a university for these students is really, really important. And I it's it's really nice to see these students knowing, oh, I needed to talk to someone because I'm having these difficulties. So it's it's really cool that our the university and student affairs department can be that hub to help student mental health.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:02]: Moving towards the future. In an ideal world, what does our field need to be doing to thrive towards a successful future?

Simone Cameron Cohen [00:23:09]: More collaboration, more sharing of information, sharing case studies with each other so that we can learn from each other, beginning to codify best practices, but also remembering context. I think all of those things will help us to support students in the best way possible.

Jake McGrew [00:23:26]: I know many of the listeners are from North American universities, so it might not be as applicable there. But at least in Europe, I see more importance being put on student affairs in Continental Europe, especially by administration. And administrators realizing the importance of student affairs in terms of student well-being, student retention, making sure that all students are treated equitably. And so I think there's a positive trend towards the acceptance and understanding of how important student affairs is in Europe, just like it is in North America.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:03]: Anyone else wanna chime in on the ideal future for student affairs?

Federico [00:24:07]: Attention to the individual. We are fully respecting the freedom of each individual. A boy, even before being a a student, is a free person free to think with his own head, heaven in a way contrary to ours. So this is the central point.

Simone Cameron Cohen [00:24:28]: Can I add, is it enough to say more resources? Just more of those, please, from wherever they come from.

Giacomo Bacarelli [00:24:35]: And I agree totally with what everyone said. In my Italian experience as student, if I can, share is an important moment to explain, for me what is the problem of auto students in similar country of Europe like Italy with the same experience of agriculture. I had a problem with, my internship because I was required to finish my degree. I had a problem and I went to an office and I said, it's not my my business. You have to go to another office. I go to the second, the second sending me to the third and to the fourth office. The fourth office send me to the first. And I said to the first office, okay.

Giacomo Bacarelli [00:25:12]: It's not busy. It's business of no one of you. What I can do? I stop to study or you say me who is in charge of it or I call police. No. Okay. I can do that. It was the first office. He or she, the remember, will do that.

Giacomo Bacarelli [00:25:25]: It's not their fault. They didn't care. And this attention to the person is fundamental. In the university, you're like usually a number. You have a number to be recognized, to send your information, to be voted, to be valued, after the exams. And the much more importance of the the individual. There is no a a limit for a limit. It's something has to be much more and more important and this need more and more attention.

Giacomo Bacarelli [00:25:55]: Because if you are to build some, to build up the, the, the adult of the future, you, as I said before, you need to someone who believes in you. So more you have this and more you believe in yourself, more you will have strong values that will guide you to something beautiful and good.

Lorenzo Caffurini [00:26:15]: Yes. I tell that the Kafka situation Giacomo describe is true. More, awareness is needed. Definitely more exchange of information. I would add that, the future is a multicultural society. I would also like there to be more funding for student affairs.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:39]: I think that's the dream for student affairs professionals worldwide is more funding always. It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. CHristopher Lewis [00:26:49]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. The Culture of Respect is excited to reintroduce two invaluable NASPA resources designed to strengthen institutional commitment to student safety, well-being, and Title IX compliance. The first is the Title IX guide going above and beyond compliance. While federal laws like Title IX and the Clery Act provide a floor in terms of an institution of higher education's requirements for addressing sexual violence, college and universities for addressing sexual violence. Colleges and universities can and should consider how they may reach a higher ceiling above and beyond compliance. The Title IX guide going above and beyond compliance originally published in response to the Title IX rule issued by the US Department of Education in August of twenty twenty was created by Culture of Respect to support institutions who are required to follow the Title IX regulations issued by the US Department of Education in August 2020. While many schools have changed their policies in response to the Title IX regulations issued in 2024, a recent federal court ruling struck down those regulations and institutions will likely be expected to return to the 2020 rule in the coming months.

Dr. CHristopher Lewis [00:28:11]: This guide provides a series of questions that help institutions assess compliance with key aspects of the new Title IX rule, identify the source of the information in the rule, and most importantly, prompt institutions to examine key questions, considerations, and evidence based practices that help institutions strengthen their prevention and response to sexual violence, their prevention of and response to sexual violence, and create policies, programs, and procedures that help foster a culture of respect. This resource is available on the NASPA website. You can find out more going to NASPA.org. The second resource that I mentioned from the Culture of Respect is the ninth edition of Core Evaluation. The core survey is designed to assess your institution's efforts to prevent and respond to campus sexual violence. It covers practices and policies mandated by federal law, as well as those recommended by experts in the field. Questions are organized around the six pillars of the culture of respect. The survey questions also are included inside of this resource to encourage you to think holistically about responding to and prevention about responding to and preventing sexual violence and also to allow your institution to document gaps and strengths in its current strategy.

Dr. CHristopher Lewis [00:29:33]: Again, this resource is available on the NASPA website. Head over to NASPA.org and click on publications to find both of these amazing resources. And speaking of Title IX, there is a new opportunity that is coming up here in the next few weeks. The ten zero nine certificate program is running from February 24 through March 15, and it is a virtual professional development opportunity. So the twenty twenty ten zero nine regulations are officially the law of the land nationwide and will remain so for the foreseeable future. Whether you are a seasoned or new Title IX professional, training on the twenty twenty regulatory mandates is required for Title IX coordinators, decision makers, and investigators. The NASPA Title Nine certificate program is a unique, individualized, asynchronous and synchronous learning experience for personnel at post secondary institutions. The speakers within the certificate program include Peter Lake, who is a professor of law and director of the Center for Excellence in Higher Education Law and Policy at Stetson University, and Jake Sapp, assistant state attorney with the Florida Fourth Circuit, both of which have a huge array of experiences that have led them to being experts in their field and will definitely be able to help you to traverse this topic and be able to help you to be able to be not only proficient, but ready to lead your organization into the future.

Dr. CHristopher Lewis [00:31:06]: One other piece of professional development is the NCAA Student Athlete Health and Wellness Trends and Resources web event that is happening on 02/13/2025 at 1PM Eastern. This session will provide an overview of the NCAA, as well as the health, safety and performance priorities endorsed by the NCAA Board of Governors. This session will highlight trends in student athlete mental health and substance use, sharing outcome from the 2020 '3 NCAA Student Athlete Health and Wellness Study and other NCAA research initiatives related to student athlete mental health and well-being. Lastly, this session will review the NCAA mental health best practices and other resources in supporting student athlete mental health, substance misuse prevention and harm reduction. If you go to the NASPA website to the learning portal, you'll be able to find this great web event and sign up today. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association.

Dr. CHristopher Lewis [00:32:34]: And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, Where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:28]: Chris, thank you so much for kicking off our season with this fresh NASPA world segment. Now we're back with our lightning round, but because we have so many guests, I've modified it just a little bit. We're gonna be doing four questions instead of seven. Alright. Here we go, everybody. Question number one. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Jake McGrew [00:33:49]: The final countdown.

Simone Cameron Cohen [00:33:50]: Who runs the world?

Giacomo Bacarelli [00:33:51]: Taraway too even.

Federico [00:33:52]: The name is Clardy.

Lorenzo Caffurini [00:33:54]: The final countdown also for me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:56]: Number two. What is your essential student affairs or higher education read?

Jake McGrew [00:34:01]: The NASPA monthly magazine.

Simone Cameron Cohen [00:34:04]: Can I say two? Because I've it's like Stoner, the novel. I think it's excellent for a journey on being an academic. But also, there's a book called Unstuck by doctor Sophie Mort. It's not specific to academia, but it's a really good read on getting in the night of habits.

Giacomo Bacarelli [00:34:20]: I'm a bit difficult with this question. Usually, I I try to search the people I know asking, try to catch all the possible interesting, books or argument not to be to be reading when I talk. So not something I used to use.

Federico [00:34:36]: Nasca and Euka are a good source for me.

Lorenzo Caffurini [00:34:39]: Yes. Also for me, Nasca and Euka.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:42]: Alright. Number three, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Jake McGrew [00:34:47]: Oh, not lately because I haven't had time to watch anything because this semester has been crazy. But as recently as I can think, I really recommend watching Bojack Horseman. It looks like a cartoon. It looks like it's really stupid, but just watch it for at least a few seasons, and you'll understand.

Simone Cameron Cohen [00:35:02]: I watch loads of television, lots and lots and lots. At the moment, the old man is something that I'm catching up on, which is on Disney, I think. It's really good.

Giacomo Bacarelli [00:35:10]: I have several answers, but we'll say the chosen. For me, it's the probably the the best.

Federico [00:35:16]: Simpson, but the first ten season, and a school of life and then an allergy of simple living.

Lorenzo Caffurini [00:35:23]: For me, I recommend, watching Twin Peaks. It opens your mind.

Laura Malakowski [00:35:27]: And for me, my mind opens with my daughter's suggestions. So I'm watching if I have time just being with them and watching whatever, they want to watch together.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:37]: And my final question, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Jake McGrew [00:35:42]: I wanna give shout outs to while I'm the only student life office person at my university, I work really closely with our program managers who work with the different schools, Ira, Elena, and Olia, and they make my life so much easier. I love working with them. We have student council event tomorrow at kind of a winter ball, and they're coming Ira's coming from across the country. And so we're gonna meet up and I'm really excited to see them and they make my life so much better.

Simone Cameron Cohen [00:36:09]: For me, it's a couple of things as the senior tutor's office, which is the sort of center of the academic advisors, but they're really specialists in supporting students and the post grad advisory service. Martin McAndrew there is just an absolute expert on supporting research students and top master's students. He's fab. And just generally our services altogether, they just do just such epic work for our students. It's amazing.

Giacomo Bacarelli [00:36:31]: Yeah. Absolutely. My boss, the president of VUCA, who believed in me a lot of years ago, who was my mentor during the university, and now he's my boss. And I have to say, I experienced that someone believed in me during the university years, and I have to say thank you for this. And, Noga.

Federico [00:36:51]: For me, my school teacher because he opened my to their role for the philosophy and, this my actually life study philosophy and student affairs.

Lorenzo Caffurini [00:37:04]: I thank to my director, Carla Bisleri, and also Carla Bisleri now is also the president of the Italian conference of college of for merit, to believe in me and my aspiration. Thank thank you, Carla.

Laura Malakowski [00:37:23]: I would like to say in general for all my team of my students at your office that they still believe in me, that we are still together, those pioneers keeping that way to the better life for our students. So for all of them that they are still with me, not dropping out this hard field that we have together.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:42]: Now normally to close out our show, we would ask you all to share how listeners can get ahold of you. But because, again, we've got a large class today, we're not gonna do that. But I would encourage anyone listening who would like to reach out to any of our guests in their respective countries to take a look at LinkedIn. Most of the students are on LinkedIn, and you can find them there. But I wanna say thank you all so much for being willing to participate. And especially to those of you who are doing this in your second language, it's just so darn impressive that you're able to articulate yourselves so brilliantly knowing that you're translating your thoughts in your head. It's just it's amazing. So thank you everybody for sharing your voices with us today.

Giacomo Bacarelli [00:38:21]: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Lorenzo Caffurini [00:38:23]: Thank you. Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:29]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners, and we continue to be grateful that you spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at essayvoices@NASPA.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a a colleague about the show, and please leave us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really helps other student affairs professionals find our show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:07]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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Welcome to 2025! As we usher in a new year, it's essential to reflect on the whirlwind that was 2024. In our latest episode of SA Voices from the Field, hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Christopher Lewis, we delve into the rapid changes that shaped the past year. From the tumultuous political climate to personal and professional upheavals, 2024 was a year of significant transition for us all.

Season 12: Continuing the Conversation With Season 12, we're committed to continuing our deep dive into the past, present, and future of student affairs. Our aim is to provide fresh perspectives and engaging conversations that resonate with higher education professionals globally. Expect insightful narratives from the upcoming annual NASPA conference in New Orleans and beyond. We’re keen to explore uncharted stories within our field and amplify voices from all corners of the world.

Engaging with the Community We thrive on your input and encourage you to connect with us. If you'd like to share your story or suggest a guest, email us at savoices@naspa.org. Seeing listeners at the conference brings our mission full circle, turning interactions into valuable, featured content.

Your Role in Our Journey Our podcast flourishes because of your continued support and engagement. We invite you to leave a 5-star review on platforms like Apple Podcasts and Spotify, as your feedback helps us to grow and reach more professionals. Let’s continue to chart the evolving landscape of student affairs together. Thank you for being part of this journey with SA Voices from the Field.

TRANSCRIPT

Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay Voices from the Field host. Happy New Year, Chris.

Christopher Lewis [00:00:28]: Happy New Year, Joe.

Jill Creighton [00:00:29]: Welcome to 2025. What a ride it has been. 2024 flew like that.

Christopher Lewis [00:00:35]: It truly did. I look back and I am still amazed that we're in 2025. It definitely went by really, really fast with everything that happened in the year, in the US, at least, in regards to the crazy political environment. But but I'm excited about a new year.

Jill Creighton [00:00:52]: And with that new year, we thought a lot about the theme, and we announced this actually at the beginning of season 11. So as we enter season 12, because of the transition point we find ourselves in as a profession, we wanted to continue to have this conversation about the past, present, and future of student affairs. So as we continue forward this season, we're gonna stick on that same theme, but we hope to bring you some new perspectives on it. Hoping to bring you some conversations from all over the world, some amazing and insightful conversations from our annual conference coming up in New Orleans. And as always, if you see either Chris or myself wandering around that conference space, I know it's, you know, so 8 weeks from now, we would love to hear your voices. And as this season arises, we also continue to want to hear from you if you have guests or topic suggestions. There's so many stories in student affairs that have yet to be told, and we want to feature you. So, Chris, if someone would like to appear on our show, how can they do that?

Christopher Lewis [00:01:53]: Easiest way to get on the show is to email us at savoices@naspa.org. And as Jill just said, it is really exciting to be able to walk around the conference and to be able to just talk with people and to be able to get some of your own voices on the show. So you will see myself, Jill walking around the conference. And if we ask you, hey, will you lend your voice to an upcoming episode? Please say yes and know that we're not just some strange people walking around the conference recording voices, but we're actually collecting your voice to be a part of that upcoming episode. So it is always exciting to be able to meet people. And if you want to be on a episode when we're in, you're going to be at the conference, you can always reach out as well and we can find a time to be able to connect and get your voice that way as well.

Jill Creighton [00:02:46]: We are so very much looking forward to bringing you another season of SA Voices from the Field. Thank you again for continuing to listen to us. We are only made possible because you choose to listen to us and share the podcast with your colleagues. So if you find our show valuable to you, we would be very grateful if you would leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts. It really does help people find the show and helps us figure out what it is that you wanna hear. So thank you so much for continuing to be a listener. We look forward to bringing you another season of content on the past, present, and future of student affairs. This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA.

Jill Creighton [00:03:30]: This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at sa voices atnaspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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In the latest episode of NASPA’s Student Affairs Voices from the Field podcast, hosts Dr. Jill Creighton dive deep into the evolving landscape of student affairs. Joined by Dr. Cherry Callahan, former Vice Chancellor for Student Affairs at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro, and her daughter, Dr. Kat Callahan, a Senior Lecturer in Leadership Studies, the episode unveils diverse career pathways and shifting priorities within student affairs.

Accidental Beginnings and Varied Career Paths

Dr. Cherry Callahan’s entry into student affairs was anything but traditional. Originally aiming to be a high school counselor, her career trajectory shifted after accepting a counseling position at Delaware State College. Her involvement in orientation programs led to a formal role as the Director of Orientation, marking the start of a venerable career. Interestingly, Cherry never worked in residence life, a conventional entry point for many professionals in the field.

Similarly, Dr. Kat Callahan’s path was unplanned. Without specific career goals during college, she found herself teaching high school and coaching basketball until gravitating towards higher education. Dr. Kat’s focus on leadership education showcases the versatility within student affairs, highlighting the various ways professionals can contribute to holistic student development.

From Emotional Development to Student Learning

Throughout the episode, the Callahans emphasize a significant shift in student affairs from focusing solely on social and emotional development to incorporating student learning and out-of-classroom experiences. This evolution underscores the importance of preparing students not just academically but as well-rounded individuals equipped for life beyond college.

Holistic Student Development and DEI

A consistent theme in Dr. Kat Callahan’s work is the focus on holistic development and leadership education. Integrating Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) principles, Kat’s approach ensures that student affairs professionals consider the identities and purposes of students, promoting a comprehensive developmental framework. This paradigm shift is critical in preparing students for leadership roles and fostering a sense of community.

Lessons from History: A Forward-Looking Perspective

The Callahans also reflect on the influences of civil rights and women’s movements on student affairs. Dr. Cherry Callahan recounts her experiences fostering positive student engagement amidst historical turbulence. Both guests acknowledge the increased emphasis on mental health and business-like operations in contemporary student affairs, suggesting a mixed yet hopeful outlook for the profession’s future.

Empowerment and Mentorship

Empowerment is a central theme in the Callahans' discussion. Dr. Kat Callahan leverages her mother’s extensive knowledge, bringing her into classrooms to share insights with students. This intergenerational dialogue enhances learning, bridging historical perspectives with current practices. Such mentorship underscores the familial bond within the student affairs community, vital for professional growth.

A Vision for the Future

As we look ahead, the Callahans advocate for prioritizing student well-being, understanding systemic issues, and continuously adapting educational programs. Their insights remind us of the enduring impact of student affairs on shaping resilient, socially conscious leaders.

In conclusion, this episode of “Student Affairs Voices from the Field” brings forth invaluable lessons and reinforces the importance of diverse pathways, holistic development, and inclusive practices in student affairs. With professionals like Dr. Cherry and Dr. Kat Callahan leading the charge, the future of student affairs looks promising, well-equipped to tackle modern challenges while nurturing the leaders of tomorrow.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on our season finale of Essay Voices From the Field, we have a very special look into the past, present, and future of student affairs. And for the very first time, we're featuring a mother and a daughter, both professionals in student affairs who can share the arc of their careers as well as the arc of the profession. So it's my sincere pleasure to welcome doctor Cherry Callahan and doctor Kat Callahan. Doctor Cherry m Callahan served as vice chancellor for student affairs at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro until December of 2017. Upon her retirement, Cherry received the order of the longleaf pine, among the most prestigious awards presented by the governor of North Carolina, recognizing extraordinary service to the state.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:10]: Her first professional position was at Delaware State University where she served as a counselor and director of orientation followed by a brief period as an elementary school counselor before moving to UNCG where she assumed progressively responsible roles culminating in the vice chancellor position. Cherry has been very active and professionally served as president of NASPA in 1998 to 1999. She more recently served as the chair of the NASPA Foundation board of directors and was the recipient of the John l Blackburn Distinguished Pillar of the Profession Award in 2024 and the Fred Turner Award for for distinguished service to NASPA in 2006. Doctor Callahan has served as an elected officer for the board in numerous community and civic organizations. Her primary current community service is with the American Red Cross in which she serves as the North Carolina region training lead for disaster services and also an instructor for disaster classes. Cherry has presented dozens of programs and speeches at professional meetings, served on accreditation teams for SACS and review teams for other colleges and universities, and authored and co-authored several articles and chapters in various publications. She's married to her husband, Mike, who taught history in the Guilford County School System for 30 years, and has 2 daughters, Megan, who's an attorney in Greensboro, and Kathleen, who's on the faculty in the department of leadership and American studies at Christopher Newport University. Our second guest is Doctor.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:24]: Kat Callahan, who is currently a senior lecturer in Leadership Studies at Christopher Newport University with expertise in education, student affairs and higher education, and internationalization of higher ed. She earned a PhD in Higher Education from Florida State University, an MED in College Student Affairs from the University of South Florida, and a BA in sociology from NC State University. Doctor Callahan has developed leadership curricula, advised students, and served in academic and administrative roles at institutions, including William and Mary, Florida State University, and Winthrop University. Her research and teaching focuses on cultural relevance in leadership education and development and the internationalization of the history of student affairs in higher education. She is published widely, contributed to global leadership initiatives, and held leadership roles in NASPA, the International Leadership Association, and IACIS. Doctor Callahan is the director of the IACIS Student Leader Global Summit and an experienced keynote speaker and workshop facilitator. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I loved having it, and we'll see you next season. I'm very excited to have our our very first parent child student affairs professional duo on the show today to talk about the past, present, and future of student affairs.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:31]: So first, let me welcome pillar of the profession, doctor Cherry Callahan.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:03:35]: Hi, Jill. It's really my pleasure to be here with you today and my daughter.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:39]: And also Dr. Kat Callahan.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:03:41]: Hi, everyone. Thanks for having us, Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:44]: When Chris and I were incepting how we wanted to present the arc of the past, present, and future of student affairs, it just immediately came to mind. Do we have any families that are doing this work or have done this work across time? All of us, I think, like to joke that really no one grows up saying I wanna be a student affairs professional. But, Cherry, you might be the exception to this rule. Oh, you're you're shaking your head no. We'll get into that for sure. But, Cherry, you're retired from the field now. Cherry, you're deep in your career in the field. We always like to start our show by asking our guests how they got to our current seat.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:16]: So, Cherry, yours being retirement. But can you tell us a little bit about your career arc into and through the profession?

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:04:23]: Okay. I guess it all goes back to the day when I was leader as an undergrad and very involved in the co curriculum. And I never really thought about student affairs even at that point because my ultimate goal at that time was to become a public school high school counselor. So I actually did a master's degree in counseling. And on the eve of my marriage to my husband, Kat's dad, I became aware of a position at a college in Delaware, Delaware State College, now Delaware State University, and they were advertising for a counselor. And Mike being from Massachusetts and me being from the Carolinas, we had kinda decided we wanted to live somewhere between the two geographic spaces. So I looked at it and I went in for the interview 2 weeks before our wedding and got the job. So I landed in a college counseling center quite by accident because it ultimately was not my goal.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:05:24]: And before you knew it, I was observing the orientation program and I said to the dean of students who hired me, I've got some thoughts about orientation. Would you be willing to listen to them? He said, sure. So 2 days later, I had the title director of orientation slapped on my shoulders along with the counselor and that's what really kick started my career in student affairs.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:46]: That was a very busy week for you here.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:05:48]: Busy. Yes. Yes. But pretty typical of my life as a whole. They're all pretty busy.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:55]: And, Kat, you are currently working at Christopher Newport University. Can you tell us how you landed in your current seat?

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:06:00]: Yes. So, unlike mom, I did not have goals in college. I was an RA, and I played intramural sports. That was what I knew about student affairs, and obviously my mother was the vice chancellor of student affairs. Yet, I never drew those parallels. But I did not know what I wanted to do after college. So I took a year off, and I ended up teaching high school and coaching basketball as following my father's footsteps. And then about halfway through the year, I was like, you know, I really liked that RA job.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:06:28]: Maybe there's something to that. So went through student affairs, went through my graduate program, went through my entry level job, be one of the typical routes through residence life, and into my PhD. And in my PhD, transitioned to leadership education, leadership development. So that's how I landed as a senior lecturer in leadership studies where I am today.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:06:48]: And, you know, it's interesting that I am one of a rare breed who never worked in residence life. I came through counseling, and as I've interacted with my peers over the years, almost everybody's been in residence life in one shape or another. I was never even an RA. So I'm a little atypical from that in that perspective.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:09]: You and I share that, Cherry. I did not serve as an RA in undergrad, and I did not have a hall director position or even an assistant directorship or directorship in residence life. I was more raised in the student involvement, civic engagement space, and health promotion, and then finally, student involvement, civic engagement space, and health promotion. And then finally, student conduct was kind of the primary thread through, how I got started in student affairs. But I did end up supervising residence life when I was in an AVP seat. So we are out there if you're listening, and you're like, how do I do this without ResLife?

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:07:36]: That's right.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:36]: Jerry, can you talk a little bit about what the profession was like when you first entered the field in terms of the value set that you were operating through, the priorities of the profession, that type of thing?

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:07:48]: Quite different from what it is today. There's no question about that. And I think the primary mindset was focused on how to get students engaged in their curricular life. It's always been there, but I think my supervisor at that time was born out of the civil rights movement, the women's movement. And that really bore the, I guess, the hallmark of student conduct and how students behaved. And so student affairs was leaned on to how can we get our students engaged in positive ways as opposed to protest and so forth. So we were more of a, I hate to use the word judicial, but I guess conduct focused. And my role in that and when I'm talking about my supervisor at that time, that was my supervisor at my second higher education job.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:08:41]: At my first higher education job at Delaware State, it was really more focused on helping the students adjust to this new environment and getting them actively engaged in that new environment away from home and helping them understand the challenges that come with pursuing a college degree amongst a population where college degrees were not as common. Because as many people know, Delaware State is an HBCU, and I was somewhat of an anomaly in that environment because I was a young white female. But it really did focus on that adjustment period and that in loco parentis domain. And then as I transitioned a few years later into the position at the University of North Carolina from where I ultimately retired, there was a little bit of that left, but a lot of it had dissipated because of all of the social movements that were taking place in the early seventies.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:41]: And it's probably swinging back towards a more model now, especially from a student care perspective as we're seeing the mental health concerns of college students come more to the forefront of our work. So, Kat, I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about how you see the current state of the profession, especially in terms of what your priorities are in teaching.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:10:00]: So it's always fun with these types of conversations just because my specific area of knowledge within the student affairs field is the history of student affairs. So I teach history of, and so listening to mom talk about that evolution, and as we've learned from all of our history textbooks, it started within loco parentis, and it has evolved in a lot of different ways. And I think we know from history that things kinda circle back in different capacities. So how I teach my students today is probably very different than I would have taught 20 years ago when I first entered into the field. And I've seen a couple shifts already within the 15 years that I've been teaching. And this year specifically has a new type of student on campus that I'm in the probably the last shift I had before that was maybe 6 or 7 years ago. Definitely, our diversity, equity, and inclusion, that piece of conversation is consistent, has been consistent in my entire time in the field. And now it's a theme that we talk about all the time.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:10:58]: And here in Virginia where I am, DEI is a hot topic because we have to look at the state and the federal government when we're talking about these types of things. So the context matters, and context within student affairs matters. So DEI is a big theme in teaching. When you teach leadership education as a whole, leadership has evolved. So I say alongside of the field of student affairs is the field of leadership studies. You can see this in Suzette Kovev Ed's work and Denny Roberts and how they in the beginning when mom's talking about her 1st years in student affairs, that is kind of the beginning of leadership studies. So these 2 stepchildren of fields are walking side by side in a very interesting way and evolving. Student development is evolving at the very beginning when mom started and has a good foothold in the early 2000 when I get into the field.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:11:51]: I get into conversations within my master's program. So student development has a stronghold. Leadership development has a stronghold, and these two things just evolve in this very beautiful way that I don't know if a lot of people see the connection between the 2, which has led me to create my leadership in higher education class, where I bring those two fields together, and we talk about the history of, because we have to know context of all things. History of student affairs, history of higher education, and history of education leadership development through where we are today and the complexity nature of things. Obviously, the conversation around diversity, equity, and inclusion, and really the critical conversations and critical theory that's coming through that did not exist 20 years ago. So I would say all of these pieces of the curriculum have evolved and are now cornerstones in how we do both student affairs, higher education, and leadership.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:12:49]: I was just gonna mention that I know in it was in 1979, I believe, when at the university, I recognized the First Gay Student Association. And it was not well received by the alumni of the university. And there were all kinds of calls for we're no longer gonna donate to the university. We're not gonna do this. And so I go back to that time, and I think about it. Again, that was 1979, and this was at UNC Greensboro, which previously had been the Woman's College of the University of North Carolina System. So it had always been focused on educating women. And so when we got to the late seventies, and then it was into the early eighties when we established our first, what we call, Office of Minority Student Affairs.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:13:41]: So I guess when I listened to Kat talk about DEI, I was on the cusp of those developments in the field of student affairs as we created and recognized those populations who were not the traditional white male and female populations. And a lot has transpired over the years since that time. In fact, it's it's amazing to me how slow at times it seems to have been, but how fast in the context of history we have gotten to the point that we are cognizant of the richness that lies in the diversity not only of ideas in higher education, but diversity of the populations with whom we work in higher education.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:27]: That's a really important reminder to all of us who I think are very much struggling with the current landscape of JEDIB work in America. It often feels like one step forward, 3, 5, 10 steps backwards. And also to remember that when the profession was just starting to emerge, none of these things existed. So there is tangible progress, but there's still so much work to be done for sure.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:14:51]: And, you know, last week, I was actually at William and Mary. I took my leadership in higher education class to William and Mary because we go look at the Wren building, the the the oldest building that exists within the United States higher education system, in which we talk about the Lemon Project. And and that's the recognition of enslaved individuals who contributed to the university and and built the university. And the point came across that William and Mary has owned slaves longer than they have not owned slaves today. And just that point of context also is an important reminder of the long term effects of this country and how we built higher education as a whole.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:30]: And an important reminder that the history of enslaved people in the United States is not just in the fabric of society, but it's also baked into our higher education system. And and then when we look at oppression of students of color in particular in higher ed, it it's easy to trace a line through the origins. So that is a disturbing fact as well. And William and Mary is founded, what, 15 30 4 ish? Late 1600. Late 1600. Oh, I'm sorry, doctor Tom Sherman, for forgetting my date from my higher ed history class. But in all of that, kind of keeping that in our history lessons, I think, is a really critical element of looking forward. And I wonder too how our curriculum may or may not change based on legislation that may or may not be coming over the next couple of years.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:16:13]: That raises an interesting question because, the curriculum has had to change over the course of time. And obviously, when it relates to the history and to inclusion initiatives, but also in terms of business. And I hate to put that in there, but how do we move forward in long range planning in terms of developing a budget, in terms of managing personnel and so forth? That was never even a teardrop in the sea of whatever when we were developing our higher education programs. And now it is because we're not a business. We are focused on student services, but yet there are those elements that have kind of crept in to the work that we do in student affairs. And it's particularly important as you advance in the field and you move into management positions that you carry that skill set forward as well. That didn't exist when I came through. I was trained to be a counselor period.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:17:14]: And then all of a sudden, it kinda lands in your lap and you say, oh, I don't know how to do this. So, yes, we need to constantly continue to assess what we're teaching in our programs and make sure that it's relevant.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:28]: I'm wondering if the 2 of you can talk about how you've utilized each other's expertise, experiences, and generational viewpoints to approach the work and to learn from each other.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:17:38]: I'm gonna let Kat yeah. No. I'm gonna let you speak to that first Kat.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:17:41]: Because I've come to you a lot. Yeah. I mean, at the very beginning of my career, I looked to mom a lot just because she had this vast knowledge of the system of both higher education and student affairs. And I've brought her into classes to speak to graduate students and undergraduate students to have conversations about what the field looks like, the state of the field, the past of the field. I think I utilize mom in a different way than she utilizes me, and I am looking forward to hearing what she has to say. But I utilize mom as a, these are the things that are going on. How have you seen this present itself in the past? How do you think I can work through this? What is your advice to deal with a person like this? And it's very, like, specific to a situation versus mom who I think takes a bigger picture approach when coming to me and asking questions. I can't think of anything specific.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:18:32]: I don't know about that. I know I, on occasion, leaned on Kat when I was trying to understand the mindset of the younger generation. I knew my children, and I knew kinda where their heads were, although none of us as parents truly know where our children's mindsets are all of the time. But I would get her perspective as I was dealing with issues. And and like you, Kat, I'm trying to think of a specific incident or incidents that I would lean on you to kinda have a better understanding of where the minds were of young people on certain issues, probably, and most likely, political issues or inclusion issues or not so much history, even though you had a better sense of the history of the profession than I did because I was kinda living it while you were studying it. And that makes a difference because when you're in the midst of something, you don't really understand all the forces that are coming into play. And Kathleen had that historical context that would help clarify that. But I think that's I would say I I used her more often to kinda make sure I was grounded in the reality of today as opposed to where I was 20, 30 years ago.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:19:53]: And I don't know. I think we did lean on each other for a lot of things. And I, having you as a mother, came with a lot of privilege. At NASPA Conferences, I wasn't really hanging out with people my age. I was hanging out with mom and her friends. And that's just, you know, I would stay with mom because I was a young individual who didn't have a lot of money. So I would tag along to those types of things. And so I got perspective from giants in the field that have really helped shape where I've come in my understanding of the big picture student affairs higher ed.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:20:25]: And then I think my day to day interactions with students keeps me grounded in that sense and just being younger than mom and her friends. So I do think we lean it on each other. And I mom, when I was saying the big picture piece, and maybe you didn't realize this, sometimes you just would call and I would then give you perspective of you've been in this field for how long, and you still need to make sure you're taking care of yourself.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:20:49]: Oh, yeah.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:20:49]: It's the little things that we sometimes forget when we're taking care of others, and mom take loves to take care of others and sometimes forgets about herself in that process. And I'm like, literally what you tell your staff, it's what you tell your students to do. And I have to be the reminder for her sometimes. And so that's where I think that I've helped you over the years.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:21:09]: You've hit something there on the head. And I know all of us in student affairs, you know, we have a finite group on whom we can lean when we're struggling with an issue. When I was vice chancellor and I faced a certain issue, and I was the only vice chancellor for student affairs on my campus. So I leaned on my colleagues across the country. How did you deal with this issue? What suggestions would you have under these circumstances? And that kind of thing. And I think there were times when I leaned on Kat, not necessarily the high level decisions that I had to make, but I knew she knew the field. And if I had an issue that I needed to talk through, there were times I would call Kat and say, okay. I'm dealing with a student and here's the situation.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:21:53]: What are your thoughts on this? How would you address this if you had to face this situation? So there was that common core of what we were doing in the field, but looking at it from different perspectives, from different generations that I think enriched both of us.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:22:10]: Yeah. I get it. It leads back to the privilege that we had having each other because there are so many people in this field. Their families do not understand what they do. And so it's that common understanding simply that was very helpful for us that we have when most people in the field do not have that.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:22:28]: And you really hit a good point there because whenever I know as as I was maturing in the field and people said, what do you do? And and I would tell them what I did, and they didn't have a clue. They didn't understand. And, oh, so you're a teacher. Well, no. That's not exactly what I do. But you're in education. You I said, no. And I think from a parent child perspective, that's very true because we got it.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:22:54]: We got it. We understood it. Now did you understand it as you were growing up? Probably not because I would take you to campus to participate in a fall kickoff celebration where you were there as the vice chancellor was sitting in the dunking tank or you were playing games with the spin the what is the reel that you spend to see what prize you're gonna win. So that's the way you saw student affairs as a child compared to what you saw it as you matured and came into the field.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:23:23]: There's a huge difference between mom and I. Obviously, I am on the academic side now where I teach student affairs, but I watched mom when I was younger. And she recalls the fun events, and I recall those fun events too. I go into braids. I recall child labor and stuffing orientation packets when I was young, but I also recall the calls in the middle of the night. I know the big situations that she had to deal with and I watched her. And when I went into my master's program, people were like, oh, you wanna be just like your mom. You wanna be a vice president.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:23:57]: And I was like, no. I've seen some of the things that I don't want to do. I am in it for students and student development, but I had to find my path separately and know that early on I set boundaries in a way that a lot of young professionals didn't set boundaries because I watched mom go through what she had to go through. So I have been able to utilize her experience to define who I am as a professional. And when you put us side by side, yeah, they're adorable mom, daughter, student affairs couple, but we are very different when we talk about approach, when we talk about personality, when we talk about just how we engage in the world of student affairs in higher education.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:40]: I'm gonna move us into our theme questions for the season. And so this is our season finale for season 11. And so you're going to be the last pair to answer in this particular year, but we'll be continuing with these questions as we kick off season 12. Our question on the past is what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think that we should continue to carry forward or alternatively to let go of?

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:25:05]: Oh, that's a tough question.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:25:07]: I know my answer. It very much is the holistic student. We should absolutely that is the foundation of the field. It is a concept that we established in 1937 before anybody else. It is a concept that we still hold today of our students have so much to who they are, all of their identities, and we need to be focused on the whole student, not just their academics, not just the one off involvement, but who are they and how are they fulfilling their purpose. And so 100% with the founders of student affairs, holistic student development.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:25:42]: Well, and I think an a part of that as as I think about this question a little bit more centers on student learning. I think that we did not focus on student learning in the earlier years of the student affairs profession. We focused on student development, but more from a social and emotional basis. And we really, over the years, have come to realize that student learning is just as important, if not more important, to, as Kathleen says, their holistic development. What is it that they learn from their involvement outside the classroom? What is it that they learn outside the classroom that can complement what they're learning in the classroom and will carry forward in terms of their careers? Because there are natural ties between those learning outcomes in terms of running a student organization, managing its budget, developing its bylaws, and so on and so forth that just carry forward into a professional career. Similarly, student organizations that focus on service. And as generations of students have come through, we've seen some generations who really focus on serving others as opposed to other times when they focus more on me me me I I. And that kinda is a cycle in a sense, but we've gotten to the point where serving others, it's still very important, but more recently than not, I feel like people are moving away from that in the field because they're more focused on the individualism of learning and preparing for their future.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:27:27]: And we've got to remember that we need to help preparing for their future. And we've got to remember that we need to help each other, if that makes any sense.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:35]: Coming into the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs?

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:27:39]: It's easier for me to talk about what doesn't feel good about what's going on in the field of student affairs. And I know this is gonna sound somewhat selfish, but I'm almost glad I retired when I did because there's been a seismic shift in the sense of what the core principles are upon which student affairs is based. It's much more of a business than it used to be. I say that on one hand, but on the other hand, when I think about the mental health crises that we're dealing with in our society as a whole, but in higher education, it's nice to see that we've kind of turned the page and we've really started putting more emphasis, again, it goes back to that holistic student, onto the mental health dimensions of a college student and why that matters as they move forward. So it's like there's 2 sides to that coin. And do I miss the work that I did in student affairs? Yes. It was stressful work. I just can't even imagine today how much more stressful it would be for me than it was when I retired 7 years ago.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:28:44]: I understand that perspective, and especially if you've been in the field for that long and watching things shift over time. For me, in the face of today, in the face of possibilities for the future for higher education, I'm gonna do something uncharacteristic for the people that know me listening to the podcast. Now I'm gonna look at the bright side. Professionals being more able to be adaptive to what's happening on our campus has increased. Our increased access to information, to conversations, to people, the many podcasts that are out there, the many different types of journals and articles that are coming out around student affairs, leadership. We have so much access to things that we did not have back 20, 30 years ago. And our ability to have an impact on what happens in the future. The ability to take students where they are, help them through initiatives on a college campus, things like intergroup dialogue, civil discourse, and really having an impact in helping these students go forth into the world as good leaders and good followers to make a difference.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:29:58]: We have that possibility, and that is the silver lining of where we are right now. And having people in the field, like like a lot of my amazing friends and colleagues around the country, around the world who are doing this work makes me feel hopeful is a word that I haven't used recently, but hopeful.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:18]: Looking towards the future. In an ideal world, what does our field need to be doing to thrive towards the future?

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:30:24]: This is hard.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:30:25]: I think that as a profession, we need to stay focused on the well-being of the student and focused on providing opportunities for them to gain diverse perspectives, to help them get comfortable with respecting those diverse perspectives and knowing themselves and who they are so that as they move into their careers and as they move beyond college campuses, they can make a difference in their communities. Because and I'm gonna use the term leadership. Community leadership is a critical need in all of its dimensions. And when I say community, it can be something as small as a civic organization. It could be a participation in city or county governance or boards or whatever and beyond, but we need to make sure that we have college graduates prepared to step to the plate to make their communities a better place. And they can only do that if they respect and understand the diverse perspectives and the diverse populations with whom they work.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:31:40]: It comes down to the foundation of higher education. We exist for the public good. And if we exist for the public good, we have to acknowledge the systems in place. And we have to acknowledge power and oppression. We have to acknowledge what our system as a whole can do for society. And as mom is talking about, we educate the student for purpose, for leadership. The framework that I'm really identifying with recently is the leadership for liberation framework, and it really does help us to shape and empower our students to go into and it is it is when she says community, it is their major field. It's their careers.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:32:25]: Not everything is a student organization. We're gonna have people working in the shipyard, working on naval ships. We're gonna have people in going in the military. We have engineers and nurses and doctors and teachers. And if we're able to equip students with these soft skills that we've talked about through this podcast, really, we can help to take these broken systems that exist. And whether that is for some that need to be dismantled and built back up, and just providing that support for those students to get to the next level. Whatever that next level is in their own identity, in their own purpose. If we are able to do that, then we're doing what needs to be done in student affairs.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:33:08]: Because we can't fix the world. Some faculty would like to think so, but we can't fix the world. But we do have a hand in shaping it. And that is simply through education, through leadership learning. And that's all we can do as we move forward in the unknowable future.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:33:23]: And I think it's the soft skills that we try and develop and hone during the college years that are the key for everyone's success in how to communicate, how to delegate, how to resolve conflict, how to negotiate conflict but it doesn't have to be conflict. How we negotiate, how do we manage our energy and our time, How do we strategically some of these soft skills are so important and that's where I think student affairs can shine and has been a shining star in terms of student development over the years. And I just have to say this at this juncture. Again, I was kind of back at the cusp, so to speak, not at the very beginning of student affairs, but I was early on in becoming the profession that it is today. And there were a lot of things I didn't know. And listening to Kat talk today, I am so proud of what she's become because she is exuding the professionalism, the energy, and the knowledge that I think is central to our success as a profession in higher education.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:34:37]: On the flip side of that, and it is who I am as a person is I look to some of my colleagues who wouldn't have the opportunity to be in this conversation, who are 10 times the person that I might ever want to become. And those are the voices that I go to when I'm lost in the field. We learn a lot of things. We have access to a lot of information, but we need to make sure that we are empowering the voices of others along this journey because it's my former classmates in my PhD program. It is my colleagues that I've been working with both at my university and within NASPA and IASIS and around the world that have really gotten me to where I am today. And I wouldn't be here without that, as well as mom and her peers. But I think we have a lot of great examples in our field of who to look to. I just wanna shine light on others in this field who are doing the work every single day that didn't have the opportunity to have their mother in the field and understand what's going on.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:35:40]: They're doing the good work regardless.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:35:42]: Well and I think that speaks to the family that student affairs professionals is. We are a family, and we lean on each other whether we're related by blood as Kat and I are, as mother daughter. But in general, we are a family. I count among my closest friends and sisters, people that I've grown to love over the years in the field. And there is so much light, shall we say, at the end of the tunnel when you think of the people that we meet in the field of student affairs, when you think of the people we lean on in the world of student affairs. Even in retirement, I will tell you, I lean on colleagues, some of whom are also retired, But we support each other, we help each other, and we recognize the important work that we've done and that we see moving forward among the students that we have impacted during our careers. There's nothing that feels better than hearing from a former student about the difference we made in their lives while they were on our college campuses. And there's nothing better, nothing more satisfying for all of us.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:36:57]: I mean, I can say it about Kat because she's my daughter, but I can also say it about a lot of other young people and now not so young people given how long I was in the field. I did make a difference in their lives, and they make a difference in mine.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:11]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:17]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's so much happening in NASPA. Coming up on February 18, 2025 is a special professional development opportunity. It is a live web event entitled the First Amendment in Student Activism, a collaborative and culturally responsive approach to developing community. This is brought to you by NASPA advisory services. This webinar will offer a primer on how the First Amendment comes into play in the public square on a public university campus, Following the establishment of a legal and policy foundation, presenters will offer a framework to explore the creation, implementation and outcomes of an effective first amendment and student activism task force. The overarching goal of the presentation is to position attendees to lead and participate in meaningful institutional evolutions that can address the many competing demands related to free speech on public campuses. Learnt skills will include consideration of the equitable implementation of the protocol, development of user friendly educational resources, communication strategies, legal implications, safety, finances, planning, logistics, and community relations.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:35]: As mentioned, this is on February 18, 2025 and you can access more information about it or register for it on the NASPA online learning community. Go to learning.naspa.org for more information. One of the new publications that came out from NASPA this year was a book entitled Student Affairs Professional Preparation, A Scholar Practitioner Guide to Contemporary Topics. This book edited by Jackie Clark and Jeanette Smith, examines critical issues pertinent to today's work on serving college students and the professionals who support them. In this comprehensive volume, distinguished scholars and practitioners offer unique insights into a diverse range of topics, practitioners offer unique insights into a diverse range of topics facing higher education and student affairs. Some chapters address HESA matters that have been central to professional preparation for decades. Others concern aspects that are emerging and evolving in unprecedented ways. Each chapter is written by a team consisting of at least 1 practitioner and one faculty member. This intentional partnership allows for a rich conversation that addresses both professionals in practice, students and faculty and preparation programs. The content can be directly used in practice or in or to generate critical lively conversations in the classroom. The authors have also included excellent resources for further reading and classroom activity. You can find out more in the NASPA bookstore.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:02]: The 2025 NASPA Symposium on Military Connected Students is happening February 18th to February 20th in Las Vegas, Nevada. The 2025 NASPA Symposium on Military Connected Students is the association's premier event designated for student affairs practitioners supporting military connected students. This symposium is your exclusive opportunity to share evidence based practices from your campus or organization. You can learn from leading researchers in the field and engage with other professionals committed to supporting military connected students. This 3 day symposium features keynote sessions, research policy and best practices presentations and workshop style sessions to help campus professionals develop or enhance their programming and services for military connected students. We invite you to connect with colleagues, participate in engaging sessions, and learn from dynamic plenary sessions. Find out more on the NASPA website. And finally today, a new issue of the Leadership Exchange came out just recently.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:06]: And in this, this issue is focused on the enduring power of historically black colleges and universities. Entitled HBCU Strong, there are a ton of articles talking about the power of HBCUs as well as the importance of these institutions throughout our country. I highly encourage you no matter where you are in your own journey to check out this issue, it is a part of the professional development that you have access to through the NASPA website and through your NASPA membership. If you go to the NASPA website, you can find it very easily by going to naspa.org, go to publications, and then the Leadership Exchange Magazine. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:49]: I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association, and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:19]: Chris, thank you so much for wrapping up season 11 with this NASPA world. We always really appreciate what's going on in and around NASPA. Alright. Cherry and Cat, we have reached our lightning round. So I have 7 questions for the 2 of you to answer. We usually give about 90 seconds for a single guest, so we'll give you like 2 minutes for this. Alright. Question 1.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:39]: If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:43:42]: I'm gonna say, We Are the World.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:43:45]: Yeah. Bring them out. Hi, Tia.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:47]: Number 2. When you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:43:51]: An army nurse.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:43:53]: Dolphin trainer.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:54]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:43:57]: My second supervisor in student affairs, Jim Allen, who was vice chancellor for student affairs when I was hired to work at UNC Greensboro.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:44:09]: It's a tie between Bob Schwartz and Kathy Guthrie.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:12]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:44:14]: Servant leadership.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:44:15]: Mine is Denny Robert leadership in higher education. I don't remember the exact title.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:20]: Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately. The Voice. Heartstopper. Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:44:28]: You're not gonna like the answer to this question. I don't listen to podcast.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:44:32]: It's called Scholar Tea.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:33]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional?

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:44:37]: I would be remiss if I didn't give a shout out to Kevin Kruger, whose support over the many years he served on NASPA staff and all the support that he gave me as I grew to become a NASPA leader. I was on the NASPA board when he was first hired by Liz Nuss, and I was impressed by his youthfulness and his energy. And he truly has inspired me over the many, many years in terms of his leadership style, his capacity to make change at a time when change was needed.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:45:11]: I have so many. I wouldn't be here without all of mom's friends. Kevin, obviously, Gwen Dungy, Cree Kevin, Lisa, v, Sally, Shauna. All my friends already called out Bob and Kathy. All my professors, Tom Miller.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:45:24]: Oh, I could give a whole litany of of long names too, but I just stopped with the one, but I could give you a dozen right off the top of my head.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:31]: It's been such a pleasure to learn from both of you today and hear your different perspectives on how you approach the work. We really appreciate you both taking the time to spend some time with us today. And if others would like to learn from you after the show, how can they find you?

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:45:43]: The easiest way to find me, although I will be honest, I don't check it all the time, is through my UNCG email address, which is cmcalla@uncg.edu. I'm also in LinkedIn if you ever think about wanting to check there. But again, I'm retired, so don't count on immediate responses if you need them. Go through Kat and you can get to me.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:46:09]: I'm also on LinkedIn and Instagram, doctor Kat Wolf 21.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:14]: Thank you so much for sharing your voices with us today.

Dr. Kat Callahan [00:46:17]: Thank you so much for having us. We really appreciate it.

Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:46:20]: Yes. It's been fun. Thank you, Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:26]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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Reflecting on Historical Context and Embracing Future Innovations In the latest episode of SA Voices from the Field, Dr. Jill Creighton hosts Dr. Amy E. French, Associate Professor at Bowling Green State University (BGSU), for a riveting discussion on the evolving landscape of student affairs. In this episode, Dr. French shares her professional journey, touches on the historical significance of student affairs, and details future innovations in integrative learning and social justice within the field.

The Journey from Alumni Relations to Academia Dr. Amy E. French's path to academia is rich with diverse experiences and significant milestones, starting with her involvement in student government and advocacy at Kentucky Wesleyan College. This early exposure to leadership and activism paved the way for her continued studies in social justice at Loyola University Chicago. Transitioning from working in alumni relations and advancement, Dr. French was inspired by mentors like Dr. Candice Hinton to pursue a PhD in Higher Education Leadership, ultimately leading to her role as a faculty member at BGSU.

Throughout the episode, Dr. French emphasizes the importance of listening to students, colleagues, and the community to drive program development. Her dedication to addressing student needs and fostering an inclusive environment is evident in her leadership of the College Student Personnel (CSP) program at BGSU.

Program Legacy and Historical Significance The CSP program at BGSU holds a legacy built upon addressing student affairs' demands during tumultuous times, with the work of Gerald Saddlemyer as a cornerstone. Dr. French recounts the program's historical roots, including the commemoration of the Kent State shootings via sister statues. These events highlight the profound impact student affairs professionals have had in guiding students through periods of crisis.

Dr. French shares how the program's history continues to shape its present and future objectives. Celebrating its 60th anniversary, the BGSU CSP program plans to honor its legacy with an 18-month-long series of festivities, reflecting on the program's significant contributions to student development and higher education.

Adapting to Post-COVID Realities The global pandemic undeniably altered the fabric of higher education, prompting a shift in student priorities and expectations, especially in residential life and Greek organizations. Dr. French discusses how these changes have influenced BGSU's program, pushing a curriculum revision focused on holistic professional development and training for students.

Innovative curriculum updates are slated for the upcoming fall, aiming to keep pace with evolving student needs. This includes the integration of AI technology using 360-degree cameras for experiential learning, further emphasizing student development theories and practical applications in a rapidly changing world.

Embracing Social Justice and Identity Development A pivotal aspect of the CSP program under Dr. French’s leadership is a robust focus on social justice and identity development. Recognizing the importance of these elements, she advocates for a curriculum that starts with current student understandings of power, privilege, and oppression. This approach equips students with the skills needed to challenge oppressive structures and promotes an inclusive and equitable campus environment.

The Role of Graduate Assistantships Graduate assistantships play a vital role in student development at BGSU, offering hands-on experience and professional growth opportunities. Dr. French highlights the support from administration in funding these positions, contributing to high student satisfaction and the overall success of the program.

Additionally, she emphasizes that reflective practice is integral to BGSU’s approach, with dedicated classes each semester that adapt to student needs and fill curricular gaps. An elective on campus politics will soon be introduced, helping students navigate advocacy and internal bureaucracy more effectively.

Enhancing Student Affairs Through Communication and Collaboration Effective communication between graduate prep programs and practitioners is crucial for preparing future student affairs professionals. Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Amy French discuss this dynamic, with Dr. French shedding light on forums like the NASPA Faculty Institute and collaborations among Ohio program coordinators. These platforms focus on curriculum development, funding, marketability, and employability, essential factors in enhancing the relevance and effectiveness of student affairs education.

Looking to the Future: Storytelling and Advocacy Dr. French underscores the significance of storytelling in student affairs, using personal anecdotes and historical context to illustrate the field’s human aspect. By maintaining personal archives like thank you notes and embracing the passions of incoming students, professionals can stay motivated and inspired.

She also stresses the need for student affairs to challenge outdated practices and remain open to new approaches. This openness to evolution ensures that programs stay relevant and impactful amidst changing dynamics within higher education.

In closing, the podcast episode with Dr. Amy E. French is a testament to the transformative power of student affairs. By honoring its history, adapting to contemporary challenges, and embracing innovative approaches, the field can continue to support and empower students through their academic and personal journeys.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices From the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm Dr. Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on essay voices, we welcome Dr. Amy e French, sheher. Dr. French is an associate professor in the school of counseling, higher education, leadership, and foundations at Bowling Green State University, where she also serves as coordinator of the college student personnel graduate program. She holds a bachelor's in political science from Kentucky Wesleyan College, a master's degree in social justice from Loyola University Chicago, and a Dr.ate in higher education leadership from Indiana State University. Dr. French's current research foundation includes cultural consciousness on college campuses, campus reimagination, and community connection within student affairs. Her favorite scholarly activity is the opportunity to teach brilliant scholars who strive to make a positive impact on students during their collegiate years and beyond.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:11]: When Dr. French is not on campus, she's often spotted walking and hiking with her dog, boss Chewy McScruff, in the parks across the country. Amy, welcome to SA Voices.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:01:21]: Good morning.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:22]: Glad to be crossing time zones again. We were talking to you today from Ohio. You are currently an associate professor at Bowling Green, but the thing we're most excited to talk to you about today is the past, present, and future of graduate prep programs for student affairs professionals. You're still in, what's being termed the college student personnel program, which is a name I know that BG has held for a very long time. We'll get into all of that. But before we talk about your expertise in this area, we always love to start our episodes by getting to know our guests by asking, how did you get to your current seat?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:01:54]: Oh my goodness. How did I get to my current seat? Well, I was very involved as an undergrad student at Kentucky Wesleyan College, a very small private school in Kentucky in Western Kentucky. And I was hyper involved in student government and student activities and pretty active as well as, I led several campus protests and did a lot of advocacy work. And from there, I actually went and got my master's at Loyola in social justice, not in student affairs. I sort of know about student affairs at the time. So I did some great work at Loyola and actually found myself working in alumni and advancement, a couple of small private schools after I graduated. And then that's kind of what led me into pursuing my higher ed PhD. And, actually, that was when one of my faculty members at the time, Dr. Candice Hinton, said, you know what? I think you should think about this faculty gig.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:02:51]: I think this really would suit you and your personality, and I just think it'd be great. And so I kinda laughed at her at first, and then she was like, no. But I'm not kidding. And then so she planted the seed, and it took all of about 2 weeks for me to call her back and say, hey. You know what? About that thing, how do I do that? And so began my kind of pursuit into the faculty side of the house. So I went from alumni and advancement, working full time during my PhD program, and then eventually, actually became a graduate assistant for a couple years. And then a lecturer at Indiana State University, and then actually went up as an assistant professor and became an associate professor at Indiana State. And then Bowling Green, you know, gave me a shot, and here we are.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:35]: And you're going back through the P and T process now. Yes?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:03:38]: Yes. Yes. All my documents are submitted. Everything is looking good.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:42]: Congratulations preemptively. I'm sure it's gonna be smooth sailing.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:03:46]: Stay tuned for a hopeful party in April in Bowling Green. There'll be a party.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:50]: Well, you're currently directing the CSP program, as I mentioned, or college student personnel program, which is the higher ed master's prep program at BG, which has long held a reputation for being an incredibly well rounded, robust, well well reputationaled program in the field. So tell us about what drew you to be leading this work.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:04:11]: Yeah. So I'll be honest. I was so excited after applying to the Bowling Green State position. I was like, oh, I don't know. You know, this is a big deal. And I'll be honest. When I went for the interview, everything kind of fell into place. It was what I was looking for professionally as a challenge.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:04:27]: It was scholarly, invigorating, and I really liked the people and the students, of course. I mean, best of the best. And so that kinda drew me into Bowling Green. And then once I got here, of course, learning more about the history, I knew about its long standing traditions. But to really get some one on one time to interact with Dr. Carney Strange at the Black Swamp Festival, to, you know, sit and talk with Dr. Mike Coombs. And, again, for them to just pour in that programmatic history as a maritime faculty was really great. And then getting to work with Dr. Ellen Broido, we have a lot of fun. And so this is my 3rd year, and I've really been intentional about listening to the students, listening to the community, listening to the faculty, and working collaboratively to try to make some decisions to lead us lead us into the next 60 years.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:05:19]: So we just celebrated our 60th anniversary as a program. Technically, it doesn't end until December, but it depends on who's asking and who's looking at the history books. But so I signed it for last year, but we're gonna celebrate for 18 months because why not? Who doesn't love a party?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:35]: So looking at the kind of longevity of the program as well as your role in carrying the program from the present into the future, what are some of the historical markers of, college student personnel program or higher ed masters that had been really important for higher ed students of the past?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:05:54]: Oh, yeah. Of the past. Well, goodness. So Gerald Saddlemyer, which which we have several lectures here at Bowling Green State, but also I believe some NASPA and ACPA awards named after Dr. Saddlemyer. He really paved the way for the program here at Bowling Green State, and I think that was at a time when campuses were quite tumultuous, when there wasn't crisis management training, when our student affairs professionals were really in the line of literal fire. In some instances, I'm thinking specifically about, you know, Kent State and learning what we've learned now from Dr. Erica Eckert's work and learning from those student affairs professionals at the time and what they were going through and what they were wrestling with, I think speaks a lot to why student affairs became a professional endeavor. And so looking at how do we train folks to really support undergraduate students as they're transitioning, as campuses become more chaotic in some ways, but I think also just more demanding in general. And so I think that's really where it started was we recognized a long time ago that there's more to college than what happens in the classroom, and it really is about those developmental components.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:07:03]: It's about being a good citizen. It's about learning to manage conflict. It's about all of those things about being a person in our democracy. And so I think that's really what started BG's program, was that initial realization that, hey, we need folks who understand college students. And it was also at a time when we were learning more about college students. Right? Student development theory was just starting to emerge as a field of study. And so I think those things combined really formulated this pretty awesome lightning in a bottle moment for the Midwest, really.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:39]: I'm going to give a shout out to Dr. Erica Eckert, as you mentioned. If you're a long time listener of the show, we did an episode with her a couple of years ago now. And if you're new to the show, I would highly encourage you to go back and listen. It's one of my favorite episodes we've ever recorded. We did a 2 part where Dr. Eckert and I talked about the history of the Kent State shootings that happened in the sixties. And then the second part of the episode is we had the 4 administrators who were responsible for responding to that incident on the show. And it was wonderful to hear their perspectives on what emergency management and crisis management sounded like at the time. If you can imagine doing this in an era before cell phones.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:15]: I believe one of them said that they had to run into a restaurant on the main street and find a phone, and they were literally printing flyers for students with information and all these other things. So I appreciate that that's part of the grounding of the BG program as well as looking at what those problems were in that era.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:08:31]: Yeah. And we actually both programs came on board around the same time, and there's actually 2 statues, sister statues on our campuses honoring those who passed away from the Kent State shootings.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:42]: Now you've taken this program with a tremendous amount of history. You entered going, I'm going to listen a lot and try to figure out what to do with it. What was the state and priorities of the program when you inherited leadership?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:08:54]: Yeah. I think coming out of COVID, our field looks different. Our students are I wouldn't say totally different. I think our students are amazing rock star students, but their priorities are different as well after the pandemic as are the expectations placed upon our site supervisors. And so everything kind of shifted. Priorities with funding, priorities with what is expected of grad students in the work. And I'm thinking specifically about residential life, fraternity and sorority life, some of those really face to face student positions. And so we had some real conversations about, okay, what does it look like to be within this field with a new so our student affairs units had been restructured several times in the last few years.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:09:38]: And so working with those campus partners to look at what supporting our graduate students would be like, because I wanted to make sure that it's not just a student worker position. I really wanted to make sure that they're getting that training and the supervision to help them develop as full professionals. So that was a priority. The curriculum was a big priority as well. And so I've spent the last two and a half years really interrogating the curriculum, talking to faculty to understand some of the history of some of those components. And we're in the process of some, I think, pretty innovative and cool curriculum revisions that will hopefully take place next fall, if all things go through the proper channels on time. But I think we've got some pretty innovative things about to happen within our curriculum that kind of in some ways, it's definitely not changing all that much because there's still the focus on the history. There's still the focus on student development theory and some of the practical elements.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:10:39]: But in some ways, we're kind of we're polishing it up, and we're we're adding some different Legos to the to the scaffolding. So I'm I'm pretty excited. So those were the top pieces.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:48]: Are you able to share what any of those shiny new Legos are?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:10:51]: I can't say too much yet, but what I will say is we're gonna, in in some ways, double down on student development theory because one of the critiques and or challenges that our students have when they're in a 2 year master's program is really applying the theory, and so I will share that there's going to be a class that really looks at that directly. It's kind of beyond student development theory, and it's beyond student development theory 2.0 into more of an applied integration of theory. And even talking to professionals to interrogate, how do they do that? What are the ways? Because I think a lot of times we're doing that. We're just not using the words, the specific theory names, or the specific aspects, but it's definitely theory informed practice. And so I think this program being rooted in the historical underpinnings that it has, I think it's really important that we double down on our story. And so that's one aspect. Another component is going to be intentionally engaging with artificial intelligence. And I'm really pumped about that.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:11:57]: And I'm still doing some training with some new software folks. But one of the aspects that I will give you a little teaser is we've got some 360 degree cameras, and our students are gonna be going places throughout the country looking at college spaces in some new ways. So I'm really pumped about it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:15]: I love the aspect of tech integration into the modern curriculum of student affairs. It's definitely where we're going, and we've had a couple of episodes this season that talk about AI. I wanna loop back to the conversation on theory though, especially as someone who's innovating the curriculum. We've always had this tension in the field about the social justice aspects of the historical underpinnings of who our theories were created by and for. How are you addressing that tension with the modern day aspect of going, we still need to apply the basics of understanding how students are developing throughout their 4 years.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:12:48]: Yeah. So I think that's a fantastic question. And it's gonna sound cheesy, but I think the example that I'm gonna use is gonna fall on the green book. Right? So so the latest edition

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:59]: The famous green book.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:13:00]: The current edition starts with identity development and goes backwards as opposed to starting with the foundations and moving forward. And so I think that's a really important aspect. Our students, what I'm finding when I teach student development theory to today's student, they already understand identity development to certain extents. They already understand certain aspects of power, privilege, and oppression, but it's the integration of how does all of this make sense? What does this do? How do I listen and learn from others to engage with the students that I'm interfacing with to support them in their development. And so I think in a lot of ways, the social justice aspects and the diversity and the equity components are going to be infused throughout. But instead of it being like a day that we talk about sexual identity development, it's going to be more integrated throughout. It's gonna be those woven threads. I think the challenge is our books don't do that because they kind of can't.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:14:00]: In order to talk about the theories and explain the nuances, you do have to have a chapter on racial identity development. Certainly. And then what do we do next? And so the way that we're framing it is almost backwards. So we're starting where we are now and going from, like, kind of that archaeological component as Dr. Ali Watts would say, like using that layering backwards component. So I'm excited about it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:23]: BG has also had historical underpinnings as a program, if I recall correctly, that really emphasizes or even has maybe required graduate students to also have an assistantship placement throughout the program, which there has been conversations in the field for a while about the value of that or whether or not that's necessary to prepare functional practitioners. So I'm wondering if you can talk about how that is currently nestled in the structure, as well as how the program views the value of that practical experience in that 2 year program.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:14:53]: Absolutely. So we think we at Bowling Green think that is a critical component to the developmental aspects. I think there's something really powerful that happens when a student comes in and begins learning the academic material and they're being exposed to new professional spaces, right, and new student groups. And so while that 1st semester might be a blur for students, to be fair, right, because it's all new and they're they're soaking it all in and they're like, wait, how do I grad student? Because that's a verb now. But truly, they're getting all of that comprehensive material and that information in a way that really sets them apart. And so we at Bowling Green still have full paying tuition, graduate assistantships. They also pay a stipend. Some live on campus within our housing communities.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:15:42]: Some don't have housing. Well, many campuses are losing that funding, and we have the support of our administration to continue with those and and even increase them. There's a really tough tension, I think, between the financial components though as graduate student stipends increase and then the the pay of an emerging professional still being lower than it should be. So there's some really tough balances, but our institution has committed to supporting those assistantships because they are an integral part of even our undergraduate student experience. BG has been ranked number 1 as the I think it's the top student satisfaction campus in the Midwest, and that to me directly correlates with our priority on student affairs and higher education. Right? It's our graduate students who are interacting with undergraduate students, supporting them, offering challenges, listening to their ideas, pushing them, and that together, along with amazing professionals, comes together to make that satisfaction rate so high. It's one of the best campuses for a reason, and I think part of it is our focus on student affairs.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:56]: One of the, I think, mysteries in our profession is whether or not slash how do graduate prep programs communicate with each other about what's important for students to be learning, as well as how is that communication happening with the practitioners in the field? We're gonna be hiring students coming out of these programs. Can you elucidate at all what that communication looks like? Where where are these conversations happening? How is this curricular idea set being kind of amalgamated together with the brightest scholar minds in our field?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:17:24]: Sure. So I think the NASPA Faculty Institute is always one of the places that I start when I begin to think about curriculum and even some specific course ideation. Last year at NASPA, I had a phenomenal conversation with Dr. Candice Moore at Maryland College Park, and we sat and talked about the history of our programs. We talked about the importance of theory. We sat at a round table with some other program coordinators and kinda just spitballed ideas and shared our challenges and our frustrations, but not in a way to, like, oh, what was us? Right? But, like, really to try to generate what do we do? How do we respond? How do we continue pivoting to support our students so that they understand and recognize the relevance in addition to those who are hiring our professionals to understand and recognize. So interestingly, just this week, Dr. Erica Eckert and I got a group of program coordinators together from the state of Ohio, and we had 7 institutions represented on the call. And we talked about curriculum, and we talked about funding, and we talked about marketability and employability. And one of our action items is to get on the call with the vice presidents of student affairs in the region because we can't have the conversation by ourselves.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:18:39]: It is a partnership, and it's an ongoing discussion. And I think the other thing that I'll say is we had a new professionals in transition conference for our students last Friday, and so that's where our students are working with our alumni base to talk about their emergence into the field, preparation with interview practice, mock interviews, and also just like a general conference type sessions as well as some mentoring and networking sessions. So great student run, student led event. It started about 25 years ago. It's taken a lot of different twists and turns, but one of the things that I did when I came on board is I said, I'm gonna find the brightest and best alumni to come to campus, not just for I mean, we we do some Zooming things as well because I think you have to anymore, but I wanted to bring them to campus and have them interact with our students. And so this year, we brought in Dr. Ashley Brown, who is assistant dean of students at Emory University. She's one of our rock star alumni. BG has lots of them.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:19:38]: Right? I think just about any campus you go on, you're gonna find some BG alums. But Dr. Brown has been tasked with basically redesigning her student affairs division and hiring the staff. And one thing that she shared was the importance of hiring folks with master's degrees in student affairs because they understand. They have the identity development lens. They have the power, privilege, and oppression perspectives. They understand the layers of the institutional bureaucracy in ways that other disciplines, while the professionals might be great coming from other disciplines, there's a real cost to getting those professionals up to speed and running forward. And so that was really encouraging for me to hear that as she continues pivoting and bringing up her division, and that's something that I'm hearing from other vice presidents as well, is that importance of the perspective and the depth of what they come with. And so I I really hope the field can compensate them accordingly, because I think that is one of the biggest challenges we're facing as a profession right now as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:42]: Definitely. Equitable pay, and then we've got federal overtime laws and we could be facing a lot of different federal changes coming in the next 4 years. Lots of unknowns with that for sure. I'm also wondering how your program and maybe programs in general are are developing courses or curricula that help address some of the skill gaps that I know as practitioners we talk a lot about. So for example, you know, when I was sitting in dean of student seats, one thing I would always notice is that we don't teach supervision well as a profession at all. It's a skill set that is typically learned as you go, and we don't teach the theory behind supervision or any of the different cultural aspects, things like that. So that'd be one skill gap. And we just had Mike Segawa, a distinguished pillar of the profession on the show a couple weeks ago, and he was talking about a need for grad prep programs to do better about teaching advocacy skills in terms of telling our story as a profession, those types of things.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:31]: So can you talk a little bit about how those might be rising?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:21:34]: Yeah. So I think you just hit my hot button issue, Jill. But telling your story, oh my gosh. It is absolutely essential. If we don't tell our story and demonstrate our relevance of how our campuses are able to exist because of student affairs labor, we are failing. And I know that sounds dramatic, but I actually genuinely believe that. If administrators don't understand the actual numerical value of what we're doing, it becomes increasingly difficult to justify pay equity, pay raises, increased positions. It is a real challenge.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:22:12]: So one thing that I've been thinking a lot about is where does this fall within a curriculum? As states, it was just in Inside Higher Edda about a month ago, how state governments are deciding curriculum for programs. They're really getting involved in some states with what's being offered and what we can do and what we can't do. That has not been the case in Ohio yet, although I'm a little concerned. But anyway, that has not been the case yet. What that does is that takes away our autonomy to really train and prepare folks. And so with kind of that restrained squeezing and that added pressure, I'm acutely aware, and I think about helping skills. Right? Coming from a some sort of a counseling pastoral background myself, a lot of the training that I had was in helping skills, not specifically counseling, but that's a layer as well. And so how do we tell that story to our administrators to justify what we're doing and also to protect ourselves from burnout? I think understanding, as you pointed out, the academic discipline aspects of supervision and the counseling components for helping skills, conflict resolution, not just learning how to do the thing, but the behind the scenes of how to do the thing, I actually think, takes some of the burden off our shoulders when we're doing the good work.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:23:29]: And I tell my students that all the time and they chuckle. But I'm serious. Right? Like, unless we understand that these issues are much larger than this moment that I'm in today with my supervisor or my supervisees, it feels so much more onerous and so much more taxing. And so one thing that we do at BGSU is we have what's called 6890, but all of the alums on the call will know what I'm talking about. And it's a reflective practice class, and it meets every single semester of the program. And within that class, we had the luxury to kind of respond to what we think that group of students needs or what we feel like within our curriculum might be lacking. We're also, this coming semester, gonna have an I'm like, this will be fun to see what happens, but it's a class that's gonna be offered. It's an elective on campus politics.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:24:18]: And how do we navigate all of the things? Right? So, like, advocacy, how do we navigate just even internal bureaucratic components? How do I know to ask certain questions and when to ask certain questions of maybe my supervisor or my supervisees? How to know even when to read between the lines sometimes? I don't know that there's a way we can teach that per se, but I think talking about it, bringing it to the table and bringing in professionals who are doing that every day, I think, is just helpful perspective to have. And when students do practicums, I always tell them, I'm like, ask the tough questions. Ask the questions that you know that you will feel uncomfortable when you're employed by those folks to ask because you're a student. So the power of a student is to gain all the perspective. So ask those questions. And if the supervisor comes back and says, ouch. That's a tough question. Good lesson.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:25:11]: Right? Like, good thing to know to be mindful of those things when you move into the field. But there's so many layers, and I don't think we talk about that until students get into the profession, and then they're inundated with all of these different internal politics, external politics, all of those pieces. It's hard. And I always get phone calls about right now. It's usually mid November, early December from the group that just graduated because they've been in their new position for a minute, not a long time, but a minute. And there's usually something that comes up that feels funky, and they need to talk it out. And I wonder if our profession also might have a space for those new professionals as well. But it's like a clock that alarm goes off and I know, oh, yep.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:25:52]: And it's not everyone, but there's a handful of students. And I become very concerned when it happens so quickly that we're gonna lose those really top leaders because of some of those aspects.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:02]: I'll be very curious to hear how this class ends up serving the student population. And I don't think you're gonna know until they come out the other side semester or a year after that first position rolls out, or maybe it's something they reflect on as they become more senior level practitioners. But I'm glad to hear that these conversations are happening in the curricular space.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:26:21]: Oh, yeah. Definitely.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:21]: Amy, I'm gonna move us into our theme questions for the season. Again, we're focused on the past, present, and future of student affairs. I've been loving this rich conversation with you around how that is presenting within graduate prep curricula, but we can talk about it both from that perspective and from the holistic nature of student affairs. So our question on the past is, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively let go of?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:26:48]: Oh, you know I love a good history question. So I'm gonna answer this in 2 different ways. I had the privilege to attend the National Endowment for the Humanities series this summer at George Mason University where we unpacked the history of higher education. And so I got to dive in in a lot of really cool ways to some archival documents. And so on the what we should hold on to piece, I would say archives. Understanding and knowing what is in our archives and and also question what's missing, I think is a really important component of our past and we don't wanna lose sight of that. And with everything going virtual and electronic in the early 2000, that has really posed virtual and electronic in the early 2000, that has really posed a real burden on our university libraries, on our archivists, for document management, as well as telling our story. And so to me, that's something that I've been all all fired up about, and I'm, like, ready to get a U Haul van and drive it across the country for my sabbatical, collecting all the things that everybody's got because I think it really is that important. And just a funny thing, I like to find the quirky stories because I think student affairs professionals are fun people, and I don't want us to lose sight of the fun in our job. Like, we like students, and we like to be around students, and we like to see them grow and develop. And so for my homework for this institute that I did, I looked at Melvin Hardy, who a few awards are named after actually within both NASPA and ACPA, I think. And so there's some letters that she wrote as an undergraduate student at Northern Iowa. The first one started talking about macaroni and cheese in the dining hall and how it was great. So she's not going hungry.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:28:28]: Don't worry, mom and dad. All is well. And and that was written in the early thirties, kind of coming out of the depression. And there was a lot of anxiety, and there was a lot of concern about just taking care of basic needs. And so throughout Melvene's letters that she wrote home, she was really homesick. But one of the comments that she made was, I have all of my basic needs cared for. I just don't have you talking about her parents. And I think that is so important for us to remember about why we do the work that we do and that her moving through those different stages and those processes, right, that we actually have record of, right, that she shared with the student affairs archives here at Bowling Green State to demonstrate the challenges and the struggles of a student.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:29:13]: And what's going on outside externally, right, was so much bigger. And she recognized the privilege that she had in being able to go and pursue a college degree. And it was still hard. It was still challenging to be a woman on a campus that was a normal school, right, that prioritize education, but still, it's hard. And then she went on to become a rock star pillar of our profession, and one of her students wrote of her, I think it was, the pillar of the profession honorary notes that were written. And it said, you know, no one better than Dr. Hardy with her go go boots and her smile. Right? And so I again, it's cheesy, but she wore go go boots, you know, small in stature, but big in personality. And I think we sometimes forget that that there are pillars of our profession all around us doing really important work, and I don't know that we amplify that enough.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:30:06]: I always tell my students that when students send you a thank you note, even if it's in an email, print it off and put it in a folder somewhere because that will bring you joy, and that joy will help sustain you. And if you don't need the joy that day, you're gonna need it another day, so put it in the bank. Right? Deposit it for later. And I just think my research on Dr. Hardy, there's been several articles written about her and and whatnot, but I had never read about the mac and cheese or the go go boots. And I think those are the pieces that I do think we should as cheesy as it sounds, hot mac and cheese, pun intended, as cheesy as it sounds, I don't want us to lose sight of that within our history. That all of these folks were people. They were students at one time who had their own challenges and celebrations and achievements, and they chose to do this work because it matters. And so as as administration and as governments, you know, make decisions about our profession, it really is up to us to identify the meaning behind what we do.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:31:06]: And yes, we need theory, and yes, we need empirical research to demonstrate the whys. But I think without the actual historical components that tell our stories of who we are and why we're doing the work, what's the point? And I don't want us to lose the point of that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:21]: Moving to the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:31:25]: Oh, man. We've got some of the best students coming into our programs. They are so fired up about supporting students. And I'll be honest, they understand in a very different way, I think, because of moving through COVID, all the different layers that are associated with student support that I can't even begin to think about. So, yes, there's research on social the impact of social media. Yes. There's research on artificial intelligence. But but our students today get it on a real level.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:31:54]: And to me, I think they're going to be pushing and challenging us to do better with some of those pieces and to to figure out some new ways to support those students because we know there's a lot of unknowns within that, but our students get it. My master students come up with some things sometimes that I'm like, I never even thought of that. And to me, that's exciting. And I know that may not be something new, but I guess that's why I do what I do. Right? I kind of like our students. They're kind of awesome. I would say that's something that's going really well is that they're really in touch and they care deeply about our undergrad students, and they've got some really cool ideas of ways to support them in ways that we've never done it before.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:33]: And looking towards the future, in an ideal world, what does the field need to be doing to thrive towards our future?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:32:38]: I think telling our story. I think we start there. And I think some practical aspects getting out of our own way sometimes. So some of the things that we've held on to for so long because that's the way you do it. That's like the one thing that sticks in my crawls so so bad is, well, it's always been done that way. And that is the wrong way to think about the future. I wasn't here when it was done that way 30 years ago. My students certainly weren't here.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:33:05]: So how is it relevant? How is what we're doing actually relevant? And I think while that might be hard to answer, we cannot continue reifying certain oppressive behaviors and structures just for the sake of it. And so that's something that I've really done at Bowling Green State is ask a lot of hard questions of my colleagues and hard questions of my dean and our provost to say, but why? And I actually see some positive movement on those. You know, when I when I really sit and I challenge those notions, they've been very responsive to that. But I think those grad programs that aren't able to ask and look in the mirror is a big deal, and I will add that I am prioritizing the residential on campus program. I think that is a really important part of our development that we can't get with an asynchronous approach.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:53]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:59]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. The 2025 NASPA symposium on military connected students is coming up February 18th to February 20th in Las Vegas, Nevada. The 2025 NASPA symposium on military connected students is the association's premier event designed for student affairs practitioners supporting military connected students. The symposium is your exclusive opportunity to share evidence based practices from your campus or organization. You can learn from leading researchers in the field and engage with other professionals committed to supporting military connected students. This is a 3 day symposium featuring keynotes, sessions, research policy, and best practice presentations, as well as workshop style sessions to help campus professionals develop or enhance their programming and services for military connected students. While you're at this conference, you'll have a great opportunity to be able to connect with other colleagues, participate in engaging sessions, and learn from dynamic plenary sessions.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:02]: Early registration deadline ends on December 16th with the regular registration deadline going from December 17th to January 15th. You can find out more on the NASPO website. TPE virtual placement is coming up March 3rd through 7th with registration opening up on December 20th. At the virtual placement event, TPE is committed to fostering meaningful interview connections and supporting growth within student affairs. Whether you are an employer seeking the right candidate or a job seeker eager to make a lasting impact or looking for a job, this event is designed to help you navigate the dynamic landscape of opportunities and possibilities. So who is this virtual placement for? Well, it's for graduate and undergraduate students who are seeking full time entry level employment after graduation, early career professionals who are looking for lateral opportunities or opportunities for advancement into mid level roles, or mid level professionals who are looking for lateral opportunities or advancement into upper mid level positions or finally mid level professionals looking for leadership opportunities at the director or unit leader level positions. If you would fall into any of those categories, I highly encourage you to register for this dynamic event. Again, the event is March 3rd through 7th, and registration opens on December 20th.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:28]: You can find out more at the placement exchange dot org. Finally, today, I'll talk about the 2025 NASPA certificate in student affairs, law and policy. This is happening June 23rd to 27th in Clearwater Beach, Tampa, Florida. The NASPA certificate in student affairs, law and policy offers the only certificate in the important area of law and policy tailored specifically for student affairs educators. This is a 23 hour intensive residential certificate that provides an opportunity for in-depth study to enhance student affairs professionals knowledge and understanding of law and policy. This is the only program of its type and the only certificate specifically recommended for members of NASPA and other student affairs focused associations. As mentioned, the certificate will take place June 23rd through 27th, and it is an amazing educational opportunity with certificate topics in public law, private law, law and the legal system, and special issues in student affairs law and policy. You do have to apply to be a part of this professional development opportunity and the application must be submitted by March 1, 2025 to be considered.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:41]: If you are selected, you will receive more information on how to register for the 2025 NASPA certificate program in student affairs, law and policy. Highly encourage you to check this out for yourself. All you have to do is go to the NASPA website and go under events to find out more. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:55]: Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association, and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:23]: Chris, thank you so much for always keeping us informed about what's going on in and around NASPA. You always come up with such great information for us. And, Amy, we are now back with our lightning round. So I have 7 questions for you to answer in about 90 seconds. Are you ready to roll?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:39:39]: I'm ready. Let's do it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:41]: Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:39:46]: Oh my gosh. I have 90 seconds. I'm thinking something Disney. I don't know.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:51]: Number 2. When you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:39:54]: A choo choo train.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:55]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:39:58]: Dr. Mary Howard Hamilton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:59]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:40:02]: I like all of them. I don't know.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:03]: Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:40:06]: What We Do in the Shadows.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:07]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:40:11]: Crime Junkie.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:12]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:40:16]: I don't know. I just wanna say hi to all my students at BGSU. My rock star colleagues, Dr. Ellen Broido and Dr. Ali Watts. Oh, and my dog, boss Treeway McScruff. He's my sidekick and coauthor to everything.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:27]: Amy, it's been so lovely to learn from you today. I know I've learned a lot. And if any of our listeners would like to have a connection with you after the show airs, how can they find you?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:40:36]: You can send me an email at aefrenc@bgsu.edu.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:41]: Amy, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:40:44]: Cool. Thank you so much, Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:50]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:25]: This episode was produced and by Dr. Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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In the latest episode of NASPA's SA Voices From the Field podcast, Dr. Jill Creighton sits down with Dr. Ainsley Carry, Vice President for Students at the University of British Columbia (UBC), to discuss the current state and future directions of student affairs. Their conversation ranges from the importance of listening to students and adapting to cultural nuances, to the evolving role of AI and mental health support on campus.

The Evolution of Student Affairs A Shift from Traditional Theories Dr. Ainsley Carry highlights that student affairs have undergone significant changes over the years. Historically, the field focused on career placement and leadership development, often driven by traditional theories like those proposed by Tinto and Chickering. However, Dr. Carry critiques these models for being outdated and restrictive. He argues for the necessity of freeing student affairs from these old theoretical constraints to better align with the evolving needs and cultures of modern students.

From Leadership to Inclusivity The emphasis has gradually shifted from leadership, with its positional nature, to inclusivity in participation. Today's student affairs professionals recognize the importance of engaging students inside and outside the classroom, acknowledging the challenges in measuring qualitative learning experiences. According to Dr. Carry, the current trends in student affairs reflect a return to career exploration and identity development, rather than mere placement, recognizing the global nature of modern careers and the importance of early engagement through internships.

Listening and Feedback Sessions Dr. Carry has introduced listening sessions at UBC, conducting over 100 sessions with thousands of student participants. These sessions are crucial for gathering feedback, understanding what works well, and identifying areas needing improvement. The methodology is simple but effective: asking students what’s working, what isn’t, what should be maintained, what should be stopped, and what other questions they have. This process ensures that student voices are heard and integrated into strategic planning.

Enhancing Mental Health Support Reducing Wait Times and Expanding Access Mental health support on campuses has seen substantial improvements, as Dr. Carry points out. Universities have reduced wait times for counseling and expanded access through both in-person and virtual formats. Regulatory changes now allow cross-state counseling, and a greater number of individuals are pursuing careers in counseling, contributing to a robust pool of professionals ready to support students.

Destigmatizing Mental Health Discussions Efforts are ongoing to destigmatize mental health discussions. Dr. Carry emphasizes that addressing mental health proactively is central to supporting students’ overall well-being. Institutions are aiming to normalize these conversations, making it easier for students to seek help without fear of judgment.

The Promise of AI in Higher Education 24/7 Student Services One of the most exciting topics Dr. Carry discusses is the potential of artificial intelligence (AI) in student affairs. Just as calculators once transformed education, AI has the potential to offer 24/7 student services. This could address the common mismatch between student needs and the traditional service hours of university offices. AI can provide continuous support for academic, career, and mental health advising, particularly during after-hours when human staff are unavailable.

Supplementing Human Interactions It’s crucial to note that Dr. Carry views AI as a supplement, not a replacement, for human interactions. While AI can enhance the availability and efficiency of student services, the human touch remains irreplaceable. AI can manage routine inquiries and provide timely responses, leaving more complex and sensitive issues for human professionals to handle.

Navigating Cultural Differences in Higher Education Adapting to the Canadian Context Moving to Canada in 2019, Dr. Carry had to adapt to the Canadian higher education landscape, which differs significantly from the U.S. context. One prominent difference he observed was the less prominent role of Greek life and a lower incidence of binge drinking. Moreover, Canadian universities have a more balanced approach to college sports, and there’s a reduced concern about gun violence on campuses.

Emphasizing Health and Well-Being In Canada, student health and well-being is a primary focus, especially considering the varying healthcare needs of international students. Dr. Carry underscores the importance of making career development resources accessible right from the first year and tackling affordability issues exacerbated by fluctuating international currencies.

A Future-Forward Approach to Student Affairs Dr. Ainsley Carry's insights demonstrate a future-forward approach to student affairs, emphasizing the need to evolve with changing student demographics and cultural contexts. By integrating student feedback, enhancing mental health support, and leveraging AI, institutions can create more inclusive and supportive environments. As we look to the future, it’s clear that student affairs must continue to innovate and adapt, always keeping the well-being and success of students at its core.

As always, NASPA's SA Voices From the Field thanks its listeners for their support and encourages feedback, topic suggestions, and reviews to continue delivering content that matters.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices From the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on Essay Voices, we continue our journey with International Student Affairs Professionals by welcoming doctor Ainsley Carry. Ainsley joined the University of British Columbia on April 1st, 2019 as the vice president, students. Ainsley has responsibility for a portfolio that includes student health and wellness, center for student involvement and careers, center for community engaged learning, student housing and community services, and athletics and recreation. He also oversees strategic priorities, such as the university's well-being framework, sexual violence prevention and response office, and anti racism initiatives. The vice president's student's portfolio is responsible for a $300,000,000 budget, including more than 25 100 full time employees and 1500 student employees.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:05]: Ainsley's responsibilities encompass undergraduate and graduate students on the Vancouver and Okanagan campuses. Ainsley joins UBC from the University of Southern California where he served as VPSA from 2013 to 2019, and before that, Auburn University where he served in the same position from 2009 through 2013. Ainsley held a faculty role in the Rossier School of Education at USC and Auburn University's College of Ed. His higher education career includes stints at Temple University, the University of Arkansas, and Southern Methodist University. He's a 3 time graduate of the University of Florida where he earned his bachelor's degree, master's in counseling, and doctorate in higher education administration. Ainsley also earned an MBA from Auburn in 2011 and a master of studies of law from the University of Southern California in 20 19. Ainsley brings over 30 years of experience in college administration. He led several institutional initiatives to combat sexual violence on campus, prevent hazing, and respond to campus protests.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:55]: Yet Ainsley is most proud of his work to enhance the student experience. Ainsley wrote, throughout my career, I've come to realize that our greatest responsibility as academic leaders includes the health, wellness, and safety of all students. Issues of sexual misconduct, mental health, overconsumption of alcohol, and equity are public health matters. When any of these experiences negatively impact any student, their their learning experience is severely compromised. We must tackle these challenges with the same rigor to approach public health issues. Evidence based and prevention focused, there's no reason why UBC cannot be the healthiest campus in Canada. Ainslie begins his journey at UBC with a mission to interact with students daily and build academic partnerships outside the classroom. Ainsley, welcome to SA Voices from the Field.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:02:35]: Jill. It's so good to be here today, and thank you for having me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:38]: I always love getting the opportunity to talk to other student affairs professionals who are global. And you have been both domestically state side and are currently global. So I'm really looking forward to digging into your wealth of experience on the past, present, and future of student affairs, especially bringing in that Canadian perspective. You're currently sitting in the VPSA seat at UBC, University of British Columbia. And the first thing we always love to do on our show is get to know you by asking you, how did you land in your current seat?

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:03:06]: So I'll go a little bit back. I went to school at the University of Florida in Gainesville, and then I went there to play football. So I was so much in love with the sport that that was my motivation for going to university. But while I was there, I fell in love with learning things. I realized that if I applied the skills that I learned in my sport and applied those skills in the classroom that I could learn anything that I wanted to. So slowly, my 3rd 4th year, my attention drifted completely academics. And while I was focused on academics, I had the chance to work with other students who were still trying to figure out their learning strategies. And that intrigued me so much that when I graduated from the university, I first took my initial passion going to corporate America and I went into retail and I hated that experience.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:03:50]: So it catapulted me back to the University of Florida. And I said, you know what? I enjoyed, I enjoyed helping people learn and helping them make meaning out of life. What degree program is that? And someone guided me into college administration, higher ed counseling with a student affairs focus. At the time, I didn't know it. I didn't understand it, but I knew the people that were most influential in my life were those Ired administrators, the deans of students, the vice presidents for student affairs. I remember Tom Hill was the dean of students at the University of Florida when I was a student, and then he's been this incredible pillar of the profession since then. So I earned my masters in higher administration and my doctorate in college administration and worked around the US at a number of different universities. Not gonna recall maybe about 10 years ago sitting now with my family and trying to imagine what's part of that future.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:04:41]: We wanted to have an international experience, we wanted to live somewhere else in the world, drive on the other side of the road, eat different food, develop completely different taste buds and perhaps even learn a foreign language. We wanted our daughter to be a global citizen and what would that look like? So we imagine all these countries we might live in Singapore, Australia, China, Hong Kong, like where the places in the world we wanted to go and if that opportunity came up, we would say yes. So I received a call from a recruiter at the University of British Columbia. So I thought, woah, here's a great school in Great Britain, of course. Well, when I went and did my homework on it, I realized British Columbia is not in Great Britain. It's not even in Columbia. It's in Vancouver, Canada. So I made the trip up here, took the interview, fell in love with the environment, the people, and the portfolio is amazing.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:05:33]: And I have a pleasure of working with an incredible group of student affairs professionals. So my journey was about saying yes to opportunities. That's how I ended up here at UBC beginning in 2019.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:44]: You remind me a lot of my friend, doctor Rafael Alex Moffett. He and I met when he was over in China and I succeeded him in a role over overseas in China. And, I think all of us who have taken that expat leap have that similar sense of adventure within us, but that global citizenship value as definitely something core to our being and and figuring out in the world. But I'm gonna say, Ainsley, you do not wanna drive on the other side of the road. I've been in the UK for about 6, 7 months now. I did drive for the first time. I thought it might die the entire time, So maybe don't put that one on the bucket list.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:06:16]: Gotcha. Good to know. Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:18]: But you've been up at UBC for about 5 years now, riding it out through the pandemic in a different cultural context than the one that you come from, especially after having led in the US for so long. Can you talk to us about the first things that struck you as different in the Canadian higher ed context from maybe what you were expecting given your US training?

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:06:37]: Yeah. And I'll go pre pandemic. Prior to coming to UBC in Vancouver, I served as a vice president for students at Auburn University in Alabama. Enjoyed that Southeastern Conference. I'm an SCC graduate, so it was great to be in the conference and and be part of the energy and the atmosphere working and living in the SCC. And then after Auburn, I became the vice president for students at the University of Southern California at Los Angeles. Also, a major institution, major college athletics, big Greek life, donors and alumni support was incredible there. Just really great solid institutions.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:07:11]: I came over the border north to Canada in 2019 and began my service as vice president for students here. So this was my 3rd vice presidency and I committed myself to arriving here and completely embedding myself in the new culture, listening, not making assumptions, suspending judgment about anything and really become a student of the environment. Like, let me learn it before I make any preconceived notions or make the mistake of copying what I learned somewhere else and attempting to paste it in a brand new culture. So I listened for my entire 1st year and learned so much and just have a great appreciation for the slight nuances and higher ed administration in Canada. Here's what popped out of me within my 1st year. At the end of the 1st year, some things were significantly different in my role as vice president. One, for example, I spent a lot of time at my prior institutions concerned with regard to issues of overconsumption of a binge drinking culture. So when there was Greek life and college athletics and big game days, alcohol was a part of the culture, and not a casual drinking way, in a binge drinking way.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:08:21]: So my Saturday nights or Sunday mornings were consumed with responding to what happened the football game before. And sometimes that was an incredible drain on the student affairs team because we were responding at night to issues related to overconsumption of alcohol and students being transported to the hospitals. That had not been my experience in Canada. Canada is much more casual drinkers, so they consume alcohol, some may over consume, but the notion of drinking an entire bottle of vodka and 30 minutes is not an activity here that I've seen in my experience. So that completely changed the rhythm of my life, what the weekends meant. Greek life is a different culture here. It's not as prominent. It does not rule over decision making at the university in ways that it had at some schools in the states.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:09:09]: So completely different culture. I didn't have to be concerned as much about issues of gun violence on campus. In previous institutions, I recall legislation work making its way through the state legislature about whether students should be able to carry firearms on campus. That is not a question that's coming up here in any Canadian context. The obsession with college sports, there's a healthy balance of the need for our teams to be successful and win, but there's a greater balance on those students being students before their athletes. And there is this overwhelming obsession with college football, college hockey, you name it. So it's an incredibly balanced environment with regard to those things. The last thing that I noticed, the diversity here was different.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:09:58]: The diversity at UBC is a global diversity. Students coming from countries all over the world make up our international student population. In the US, it was largely black or Hispanic or different US cultures with a spattering of international students here. It's almost a complete blend of all of those cultures. So those were some of the things that I noticed that were distinctively different in Canada, and I can imagine different places in in the world may have some things that are different. What some of the things that were the same concerns about sexual violence also happening here, concerns related to mental health and students also happening here and how the administration supports that, issues of affordability, especially around housing and food, they are present here. So we have some of the same concerns, but many of the things that would consume the time of the vice president, I found to be less consuming here, quite less consuming.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:55]: And then looking at that alternatively, then what do you focus on most in the Canadian context as a bpsa

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:11:02]: student health and well-being is number 1. My 1st year, I spent that entire year hosting student listening sessions, small groups of 25 students. Sometimes I'd buy pizza for 400 students, and they'd show up in an auditorium and we would just talk. And I'd ask those students 5 questions. What's working? It's not working. What must we continue doing? What must we stop doing? And what question am I not asking you that you wish you I would ask and you wanted to provide an answer? And we did about 20 listening sessions with over 500 students in that 1st year. And the primary issues that came up navigating student healthcare was number 1. Our students were coming from all over the world and their healthcare systems were different than the healthcare that they were trying to navigate for the first time as an 18 or 19 year old 1st year student.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:11:53]: They were away from their parents and they were making their own health related decisions and we didn't make it easy for them. We had multiple health center operations and students had to identify which one to go to in between classes and then they would find themselves at the wrong one and then they had to take another day to make another appointment to go to the other wrong place and by that time their health condition may have worsened or it may have resolved itself but we also found students who just said you know what it's too complicated I'll just wait till I go home And as you can imagine with health related issues, they don't get better as time goes along. You actually have to get them treated or get them responded to. So the first thing we worked on was fixing or making it easier for students to navigate health care. The second major concern that students raise were issues related to career development. So many students arrived on campus, had a great first and second year, then kinda woke up that 3rd year and realized, I wish I knew about this internship in my 1st year. I I would have taken advantage of it and I would be more prepared. Again, we didn't make it easy for students to navigate their career journey.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:12:59]: We didn't make it clear. We didn't make it structurally unavoidable. So we had to find ways to make a smarter process for that. And then the 3rd major issue here are issues of affordability. Now that we've navigated health care, we are building out our career development process. The thing that has bubbled to the top are issues related to affordability. We have a large international student community with the Canadian dollar is different than the dollar from their international country. We have geopolitical conflicts going on impacting individuals' ability to continue to study, natural disasters happening, so issues of affordability, housing and food are prominent on the list.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:13:39]: At UBC, it's not unique to Canada, this is a global impact on student learning right now and it's really impacting their mental health and impacting everything else. So all of those things combined, student health and well-being is our number one priority.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:56]: I wanna reflect back on those 5 questions you've been asking the students in the listening sessions. I feel those are really great open ended questions that really anyone in student affairs, regardless of the level that you're working at in an organization, can use to begin some light assessment on how your your services are functioning or how your programs and impacts are really kind of setting with the students. So can you please repeat those for

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:14:20]: us? Sure. So I begin with letting the students know today, here are 5 questions that I will pose to the group. You don't have to answer all of them. You may choose 1. You may choose 2, but don't feel compelled to answer all of them. What I wanna know and this is while students are enjoying their pizza and getting ready for the session. What I wanna know is, number 1, what's working for you? What what are we doing a great job of? And you wanna say, dear university, thank you for putting this in place. We need that feedback.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:14:53]: Number 2, what's not working? Kind of the opposite side of the first question. There's something that we've put in place that we think is a good thing, but it's not working for students. Or there may be a policy in place that's completely outdated, was designed in the eighties or the nineties, and it no longer makes sense to the student population who's here right now, so what's not working? Number 3, what is the one thing you want us to maintain? Sometimes students hear concerns about something that's gonna discontinue or we're gonna stop doing something. What's the one thing that we have to keep in place that students say this event, this tradition, this ceremony, this activity is so precious to us. We really want this to stay in place. The 4th question is if you had to pick one thing that you want us to absolutely stop doing this, it's related to the first two questions, but what's the thing that you want us to stop doing? And then the 5th question is, what's the question you wish the administration would ask you, but we have not asked you and you wanted to tell us about? So we outline those 5 questions, we keep them on poster boards nearby and I say, pick 1 or answer all 5. It's up to you. But don't feel compelled to answer all 5.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:16:06]: Typically, students will stand up and say, let me tell you something that's working. And then they say, to be fair, let me also examine with you. Here's something I'm really bothered by. In a few cases, students have stood up and said, here's a question that I wish the administration would ask us more because I wanna hear the answer. And most recently, that question came up about how are we supporting students who are single parents, category that we had not wrapped our minds on. We thought about families, but we hadn't wrapped our mind around the complications of single parents. So we have done 100 of listening sessions now over the past 5 plus years that I've been here. 1,000 of students have participated and we have a note taker there that collects notes.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:16:54]: And then we summarize all of those notes, produce a report and then share it with the audience that came. We do our best to answer each of the questions and this feedback session is what has helped us produce our strategic plans.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:07]: This is a great present practice. I think a lot of people should be incorporating the student voice into their student affairs strategic plans a little more. But I'm also wondering how you navigate when you know that there's something that a student needs, but your teams simply don't have the bandwidth, the resources, or the foci to navigate that particular need.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:17:24]: Yeah. That's a good question. So we make it clear at the beginning that this is a listening session. So I'm not always there to solve the particular issue immediate. So sometimes students bring to the stage a very personal issue with regard to men their own mental health issues of sexual violence that I often ask to pause. And we do have counselors that are there with us. I asked the student if we could take this personal issue offline so that we can help them solve their issue directly. And we'll take that student's name, that student's phone number, sometimes we'll have a counselor who continues the conversation with them, but we make sure that we help address that individual student and their need.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:18:06]: As you said, sometimes there's an issue that we cannot resolve, whether it's a geopolitical conflict, students have come to these listening sessions and said, we want the university to demand a ceasefire right now, why won't you demand a ceasefire? And we find ourselves in this kind of, well, that's not within our capacity to resolve that right now, but we understand your concern. Let us understand at the depth of that concern, what is the thing that we can do on campus? So sometimes we play it out with students in the audience. What's the alternative for us to address geopolitical concerns among our campus community. But for the most part, we have found students with an individual concern is real tricky when we pull them aside and have a 1 on 1 with them, we can help them resolve that problem. If it's within the scope of the universe, it might be outside of the portfolio of the vice president for students. But our work is to advocate for students wherever it's happening. So if it's in an academic function, we'll work with the dean or the associate dean of that academic function. If it's in housing or dining or in the community, we will help the students navigate it.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:19:11]: So thus far, we've been mostly in the ballpark of issues that we can respond to as a university, not just VP for students, but as a university.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:22]: When I think about transitioning into a new cultural context, which I've done a couple of times in the last couple of years myself, I always think about those things that caught me off guard that I didn't realize would be a cultural norm or cultural assumption or something I was carrying with me from my past that maybe I stepped in something else in the context that I'm currently living in. So I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about how you've learned to navigate cultural difference, especially in the Canadian context where I think a lot of Americans tend to operate with a sense of hubris that the cultures are more aligned than they really are. So how have you figured out what to take with you from your American core and what to approach with that most humility and and kind of fix it when you have stepped in it?

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:20:03]: That's such a great question. I think that is the most important transition as anyone considering, global opportunities or working outside of the United States. It's so easily to be immersed in the American way of doing things. And it's so easy to assume that this is the correct way. I spent my 1st year suspending all judgment, allowing my values to be challenged, but focused on asking myself the question, focused on being a critical thinker of the experience and just absorbing this experience. And it wasn't a foreign idea to me. I'd worked at Temple University in Philadelphia, the University of Arkansas in Fayetteville, Auburn University in Alabama, the University of Southern California. And even in those environments, they were all US environments, but they were completely different environments.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:20:54]: An attempt to copy and paste anything from Auburn to USC was not gonna work. So I learned early in my US transitions from institution to institution to pay attention to the unique culture of the place that I'm sitting right now, like, be completely present. I think the biggest mistake we can make is to copy and paste or the worst phrase that I typically hear is when I was at Auburn, we used to do like that does not work. So completely embed yourself in your current institution and take the time. Sometimes it's a year to completely learn the culture and values and why things are done a certain way. In the end, you may disagree, you may continue to disagree with the path or it may confirm that this is the right path. And now I understand why we use this term or participate in this practice. You might disagree with it in the end, but it's hard to change when the community that you're trying to change does not believe you understand their cultural practice.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:21:59]: We have to build some social capital before we can jump directly into change management. And I think that's true moving from Colorado to California to Texas as it is moving from Los Angeles to Vancouver, British Columbia. So immerse yourself in the culture, understand what's going on, feel free to disagree in the end, but you can't disagree until you understand. So it was being a critical practitioner that has been most helpful for me. Give you an example of one thing that came up. I am in my US mindset, very linear in thinking about, let's solve this problem. So we'll come to the table. There's a student issue.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:22:40]: We're grappling with something, but everyone is talking around the something. So I'm sitting there listening, trying to figure out what problem are we trying to solve? What is the issue here? And after 30 or so minutes into the meeting, I grow so impatient that I just say, wait a minute. What are we talking about? What is the issue? I don't understand. What are we trying to solve? And then we kinda continue to have this talk around it ness, and it's sometimes an issue of culture or race. We have a large indigenous population and indigenous commitment here, issues of black student issues, religious and cultural issues. We have this merry-go-round for about an hour that used to frustrate me. And I realized after my 1st year that I needed to slow down. I was the one that was moving too fast.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:23:28]: Part of the process was the group coming to terms with finding the right language to get there. So my impatience with problem solving was my error, not the error of the group that I was sitting around trying to navigate this with. So in my 1st year, I realized that sometimes it's gonna take 3 meetings to get to the heart of the issue, and I needed to be patient with that because the journey was part of the problem solving, not pinpointing the issue and tackling it immediately. So that was one of the nuances that I found here. There's a lot of talk around an issue before we get to the meat of the issue. And that's been a valuable learning lesson for me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:09]: Processing is part of the process. Yes. When you think about your space that you're currently occupying and the staff that you are responsible for leading and ultimately developing, what are you doing differently in the Canadian context than you might have done in the US context?

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:24:24]: So one of the things that I have not been able to drag across the border, some of the higher ed language that we had been developing in the US since the 19 fifties sixties seventies as the profession was being born, up student outcomes, strategic planning, learning and assessment and evaluation and experiential learning, high impact practices, all of the things that we've gone to conferences to learn and adopt. Some of those things are unique, uniquely US. And And when you come across the border, some of that language changes. Those activities are still important, but the language of those activities have changed. So you won't find, at least at my institution, you won't find a lot of individuals who are classically trained in higher aid administration, meaning earning a master's degree in student affairs or a doctorate in college administration. They are well educated, great experiences. But I have degrees from chemistry and physics and math and business. And they're all over the place.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:25:23]: Very few people are student affairs practitioners as we know them in the U. S. So some of the language translation is different. And it's been helpful for me to learn this language. What's important here? Because after we talk it out for a while, then people will say, oh, I know what you mean. This is what you're trying to say. So it's been super helpful learning a new language, but it requires listening. It really requires listening and taking our time to get there.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:25:52]: I have found that our culture as an administration has been super receptive to thinking outside the box, creating new ideas because they're not boxed into Tinto's theory or Chickering's vectors or any of the other theories that we learned as young student affairs professionals that later on, when we go into another environment, those theories sometimes have boxed us in because those theories are largely out of date in many contexts. They have not evolved to the new cultures of our students. So being able to free myself from the boxes of student learning theories that we had adopted a long time ago in a different context has been helpful for me to have that learning experience because we're talking about the same things and the same outcomes. But I had to learn how to how to drop that language in those boxes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:41]: Well, Aynle, I'm gonna transition us over to our theme based questions for the season. And so I have, one question for you on the past, one on the present, and one in the future of student affairs. So starting in the past, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively let go of?

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:26:59]: So our higher ed profession, I recall when it was very focused on career placement, career development. As time has moved on, I remember when we introduced student leadership development, where leadership was important and then we started to step away from leadership development because it was so positional and that was a distraction to those who said, I'm not a leader, but I wanna participate. We weren't teaching followership anymore. We weren't teaching good practice of being good teammates, working together. So we moved away from leadership development. And then we kind of completely focused on student learning, what are students learning inside and outside the classroom. And that had an incredible amount of value as we started to see both this learning happening in both places. But we remain challenged with how do we measure learning that's happening outside the classroom because so much of it is qualitative, not quantitative.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:27:55]: Student experiences were just as important. I do think we're seeing a revisit, a new world of student career development that is different than when we attended school in the eighties nineties. It was a very placement feel where employers came to campus to interview you. Now we're in a world where students are global employees. Students can work all over the world. Platforms like Zoom and artificial intelligence are platforms that we should be thinking about as students to help students make their career decisions and pursue their career journey. So now I think it's not just about career placement and career development, but it's about career exploration and identifying self and seeing where you wanna work as part of a global society. And we know students will graduate from universities and within their first five or so years, they will have 5 or 6 different jobs and employment opportunities.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:28:55]: Unlike the prior generation that we went into a single industry, and we know students are much more purpose driven about where they work today. They want to be a part of a company that they feel good about, that they feel this company is doing something better for the world. How do we help students explore that journey? Now I have students who arrive at the university who are looking for an internship immediately. They want that 1st summer to begin their career journey. Employers are using the internship as interview number 1. So the student who has spent 4 years with a particular company, number 1, knows more about that company than any place else, and that employer knows about them. So the career offer is easier at that point, but we have to start that journey earlier as a part of a journey and not make it a super stressful situation for a student who can't find that opportunity. But I think career exploration and identity development is coming back.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:29:57]: That's a practice that I think was in the past in a very career placement like way. And now we are entering this career journey phase.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:07]: Moving towards the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs?

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:30:12]: I think we're doing a much better job around issues of mental health and how we're supporting students navigate mental health care on campus. I remember the calls and the cries from more counselors on campus. The wait time was too long. Sometimes students were waiting 6 weeks for a counseling appointment, 8 weeks for a counseling appointment. I believe our counseling systems have become much more smarter. We now know how to triage critical situations, get the student with the urgent care needs in first. We have expanded our counseling portfolios to have not only counselors on the ground, but COVID taught us that we could also deliver mental health counseling via phone, via video, via Zoom. So now we have virtual platforms for counseling and companies that provide that virtual counselling.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:31:05]: I recall in the states, we were limited by which state we were in and our ability to use a counselor in another state, that counselor needed to be licensed in a particular state. Now, many of those licensure agreements are giving way to allow students at your university to have access to mental health counseling, whether it's in state or out of state. And since then, so many more young adults have graduated from universities, gone into counseling. So now we have a much more robust pool of mental health counselors available. I believe because of the demand, we're seeing more individuals go into counseling. So I am proud today that we at University of British Columbia have five paths that a student can receive mental health counseling support. That's on the ground, virtually via Zoom, by phone, we have embedded counselors into academic units and we have embedded counselors into residence halls. So right now, the wait time, if a student is willing to use the full menu is 72 hours, which is and a student who has urgent needs can be seen immediately.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:32:15]: So the thing that I'm proudest of is the work that universities have done to create a more robust student health and well-being infrastructure, specifically around mental health counseling services. And the stigma of it is being released. We can talk openly about everyone having a relationship with a counselor as a support mechanism, something that all students need, and it's not frowned upon as as it had been in the past. So I am excited about the world that we're living in. I have a 17 year old daughter that's getting ready to go to a university, and I like the place that we are right now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:52]: And looking outwards, in an ideal world, what does the field need to be doing right now to thrive towards our future?

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:32:58]: I think one of the most obvious answers around our future conversation is how do we leverage artificial intelligence? There's a robust conversation going on in the classroom about the implications of AI. Much of it is around how students might use AI to gain an advantage in the classroom. There's concern about AI being used as a tool to cheat on exams. I I think the academics will resolve that and pedagogy will adjust in order to it's like when the calculator came on, Bill. People were concerned, oh, students aren't gonna do math in their head anymore. Well, we realized that the calculator can be a teaching tool, an instructional tool. So how might we use AI as an instructional tool? But I think there's a goal of mine in artificial intelligence as we think about student affairs and student services. And the reason why I'm so excited about it, many of our operations operate on a 9 am to 5 pm schedule.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:33:55]: Okay. It might be 8 am to 5 pm, but that's not the student rhythm. Students usually aren't up at 8 am looking for mental health counseling services or academic advising or career advising that may start at noon, but it's definitely not over at 5 pm. So that student who it's midnight, they're concerned about something, they wanna talk to someone, they wanna go through a resume, they have a job interview the next day or a podcast interview, and they wanna think through some questions. What if we had a suite of services that were available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? And and it didn't have before we used to try to imagine how do we keep student affairs personnel available for hours beyond 5 PM. And now I think there's a world that we can use artificial intelligence to be more available around the clock. Not that it would replace humans, but it would be a supplement to the work that we're doing on the ground. And then after 5 or 6 PM, we switch into a more virtual AI mode that still helps students answer critical questions.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:35:00]: I remember we were trying to create avatars that would answer questions and engage with students. And the technology was clumsy back then. And this is 5 to 7 years ago when we were experimenting with this at USC. I think artificial intelligence right now can allow us to create much more smarter interfaces with students And just imagine the possibilities. I'm talking academic advising, career advising, advice on mental health counseling, advice on interview preparation, everything that we do in student affairs, I think there's an AI opportunity that we should explore and vigorously vigorously consider. I don't think it will replace humans, but I think it will be a great supplement.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:44]: And if you're listening to essay voices for the first time today, I strongly encourage you to go back a couple of weeks ago and listen to the episode we did with doctor Daniel Weisglass all about AI in higher education. It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:00]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world. And there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. As we approach the end of the year, there's no better time to reflect on your department's achievements and plan for continuous improvement. A program review collaborative review can provide the external insights needed to refine your strategies and strengthen your programs. The PRC is a collaborative effort between NASPA, the Association of Colleges and Universities Housing Officers International, or ACUO AI, the Association of College Unions International, ACUI, and NRSA, Leaders in Collegiate Recreation. This partnership is designed to provide best practice frameworks and expert guidance for departmental evaluations. If this kind of evaluation sounds like something that would really help your office, I encourage you to check it out for yourself.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:52]: You can go to program review collaborative dot org to find out more. The new issue of the Journal of College and Character has just released. Volume 25 issue 4 just came out. And in this journal, you're gonna be finding a ton of different articles. Articles such as from Kent State to Black Lives Matter, student affairs relationship with campus activism to developing character through critical reflection or fraternities and sororities as civil society organizations, past roles, present actions and future possibilities. All of these articles and more can be found on the NASPA website. When you go to the NASPA website, they're easy to find. All you do is go to NASPA.org, go under publications, and you can see all the journals right there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:39]: The 2025 NASPA annual conference schedule has been released. You can take a look at all of the things happening at the upcoming NASPA 25 conference in March to be able to see all the different programs that are going to be there and start putting together a schedule for yourself. If you're planning to attend the NASPA annual conference today, now is a great time to start planning your schedule out so you know all of the different programs that you may want to attend. I mentioned earlier this fall that the new class of pillars of the profession have been named. And now is a great time before the end of the year. If you have an interest in wanting to make a donation to honor one of the 2025 Pillars of the Profession, you can do so by going to the NASPA Foundation website to be able to learn more about all of our 2025 Pillar of the Profession class. And you can make a donation of any amount to support 1, 2, or all of them. I highly encourage you to honor these individuals, putting it by putting in a donation to be able to support them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:45]: But also by doing that, you're also supporting the foundation, which provides scholarships and more to support the work of NASPA. Talking about the annual conference, one other conference that's coming up. If you can't go to the annual in person conference, make sure to set aside April 9th through 11th for the 2025 Virtual Conference. The 2025 Virtual Conference is a 3 day interactive educational experience for you as student affairs professionals or anyone else that is a partner to higher education that will engage you in high quality content centered around individual and team growth. There will be multiple educational sessions, including extended learning workshops that will allow for you and your teams to participate in personal and professional development throughout the live event and on demand. The nice thing is that by registering for this conference, all of the sessions are available on demand for 1 year. So even if you watch them once and you want to come back and watch them again, you have the opportunity to do just that. You can find out more on the learning portal of the NASPA website.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:55]: You can go to learning.naspa.org and then go to the virtual conference for more information. But while you're there, make sure to check out all of the learning opportunities that are available to you as a NASPA member. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:22]: Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:33]: Chris, it's always a pleasure to hear from you on what's going on in and around NASPA. And Ainsley, we have reached our lightning round. So I have 7 questions for you to answer in about 90 seconds. Are you ready?

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:41:46]: Let's do it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:46]: Okay. Question 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:41:51]: Bring them out Bring them Out by TI.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:53]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:41:56]: I wanted to be a professional athlete.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:58]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:42:01]: Barack Obama.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:02]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:42:04]: The next act, realigning your mindset, purpose, and career by Jason Pena and Amy Hecht.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:11]: Number 5, the best TV show you've binged lately.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:42:13]: Game of Thrones.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:15]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:42:19]: Pardon the interruption.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:20]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional?

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:42:24]: Let me give a shout out to I just mentioned them, Jason Pena and Amy Heck. I believe they put out a great publication called the next act realigned in your mindset, purpose, and career. And it's all about the next step for college administrators like us. So I think this is gonna be an exciting read, and I wanna encourage everyone to go out and check it out.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:43]: Ainsley, thank you so much for teaching us today about what's going on in the UBC context and a little bit of the Canadian higher education context. If anyone would like to learn from you after the show airs, how can they find you?

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:42:54]: Please email me atainsley.carry@ubc.ca. That's a ins ley.carrycary@ubc.ca. And you can also hit me up on LinkedIn.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:10]: Ainsley, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:43:13]: Thank you, Jill, for having me. It was such a pleasure.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:20]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill l Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:58]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

View Details

As we reach the mid-season break of NASPA's SA Voices from the Field, Dr. Jill Creighton, our devoted host, takes a moment to reflect on the beautiful journey so far. Highlighting the incredible range of professionals, from undergraduate students to distinguished pillars in the field, Dr. Creighton appreciates every guest who has shared their wisdom and stories on the show.

Indigenous Awareness During Thanksgiving In alignment with the American Thanksgiving holiday, Dr. Creighton emphasizes the significance of acknowledging the indigenous history of the lands we inhabit. By using resources like Native Land (native-land.ca), the podcast encourages higher education professionals to build a deeper understanding and empathy for indigenous communities. This approach aims to foster a more inclusive environment for students, faculty, and staff.

Ongoing Conversations and Future Episodes Even as the podcast takes a brief hiatus, listeners can look forward to more enriching conversations slated for the upcoming weeks. As Dr. Creighton and her team prepare for the next leg of the season, they remain committed to exploring the past, present, and future of student affairs.

Listener Engagement Dr. Creighton closes the episode by expressing gratitude to the podcast’s loyal listeners and encourages them to share feedback and suggestions for future topics and guests. She reminds everyone that their engagement helps broaden the show's reach within the academic community.

Catch more insightful episodes of SA Voices from the Field after the Thanksgiving break, as we continue to delve into the dynamic world of student affairs.

View Details

On the latest episode of NASPA's Victors in Grad School podcast, host Dr. Jill Creighton engages with Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew and Dr. Renee Bolling to shed light on the often-overlooked aspects of religious and spiritual diversity on college campuses. This episode delves deep into how institutions can create more inclusive environments that respect and celebrate diverse spiritual identities. Their insights provide valuable guidance for educational administrators and student affairs professionals aiming to foster spiritual inclusivity.

Student Spiritual Needs and Inclusivity

Dr. Renee Bolling begins by emphasizing the fundamental role that spiritual support and expression play in students' lives. College students value having access to prayer spaces, meditation rooms, and dietary options tailored to their religious needs, signaling to them that the campus respects and acknowledges their faith. The presence of these facilities does more than meet basic needs; it profoundly impacts students' perceptions of inclusivity and belonging.

Impact of Campus Climate on Religious Diversity

The discussion then shifts to the broader implications of campus climate on perceptions of religious diversity. Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew notes that events such as protests regarding geopolitical issues, like the Israel-Palestine conflict, can heavily influence students' perceptions of how their religious identities are valued on campus. He underlines the critical need for institutions to create environments that facilitate open, respectful dialogue around these complex issues.

Demographic Shifts and Personal Spirituality

A notable trend highlighted in the conversation is the increasing movement among students away from organized religion towards personal spirituality or secular identities. This shift challenges campuses to rethink how they provide spiritual support. Interestingly, their college experiences can either reinforce or reshape their spiritual commitments, suggesting that campus environments have a significant role in students' spiritual development.

The Role of Student Affairs Professionals

Student affairs professionals are at the forefront of fostering spiritual inclusivity. As Dr. Bolling points out, more public universities are creating religious and spiritual life offices, dedicated to supporting diverse religious expressions. These professionals are tasked with not only ensuring students' spiritual needs are met but also challenging them intellectually and promoting bridge-building activities.

Advancements and Challenges in Spiritual Inclusivity

The episode also highlights promising practices, such as providing transportation to spiritual or prayer spaces and enhancing bias reporting systems. However, both Dr. Bolling and Dr. Mayhew stress the ongoing training gap; fewer than 30% of staff in student affairs have formal training in managing religious diversity. They advocate for more comprehensive training programs to equip educators and student affairs professionals to handle spiritual diversity tensions effectively.

Conclusion: Moving Forward with INSPIRES

The INSPIRES index, discussed extensively in the episode, represents a significant advancement in assessing and improving campus climates for religious and spiritual identity inclusivity. Funded by the Arthur Vining Davis Foundations, INSPIRES provides institutions with a scorecard and actionable recommendations across seven domains, aiding in the creation of more inclusive campuses.

Institutions interested in participating in the INSPIRES survey can access the index website, with the survey closing on December 16.

In summary, this episode of SA Voices From the Field offers a comprehensive look at the multifaceted role of spiritual inclusivity in higher education. As colleges continue to evolve, ensuring that all students feel seen, heard, and respected in their spiritual identities remains a critical aspect of their mission.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:53]: She chairs the NASPA Spirituality and Religion in Higher Education Knowledge Community, serves on the editorial board of the Journal of Student Affairs Research and Practice, and mentors international EDD students through an HBCU. Her research interests include comparative international education, critical internationalization, educational leadership, global learning, and worldview diversity, all topics related to her dissertation, which received the best practices in research and scholarship award from the International Education Knowledge Community. Renee earned her PhD from OSU's Higher Education Education Student Affairs Program, a postgraduate certificate in religious studies and education from Harvard, an MA in counseling and human development from Walsh University, and a BA in sociology from the University of Akron. Our second guest is doctor Matthew j Mayhew. Doctor Mayhew is the William Ray and Marie Addison Fletcher Professor of Educational Administration. His research is focused on how collegiate conditions, educational practices, and student experiences influence learning and democratic outcomes, including moral reasoning, pluralism, productive exchange across worldview differences, and innovation. To support the study of college and its impact on student development and learning, he's been awarded more than $20,000,000 in funding from sources, including but not limited to the United States Department of Education, the Ewing Marion Kauffman Foundation, the Merrifield Family Trust, and the National Science Foundation. He's published more than 60 peer reviewed articles and journals as well as how college affects students volume 3.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:15]: He received his doctorate from the University of Michigan. Welcome to SA Voices, Renee and Matt. Hello.

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:02:21]: Hi. How are you? Thanks for having us.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:23]: Really looking forward to talking to you both today about all of the work you're doing with the INSPIRES index. But before we jump into the research and how you're contributing right now to the the present and the future of student affairs, we always love to get to know our guests by asking you kind of how you've gotten to your current seat. So, Renee, let's start with you.

Dr. Renee Bolling [00:02:41]: Fantastic. Well, I'm really happy to be here with you today and everyone listening in. I started off in higher education student affairs and residence life like many of us, and then I wound my way into, k twelve counseling and student support, and ended up serving overseas in an international school. That got me more and more interested in this facet of diversity, religious, secular, and spiritual, or also known as worldview diversity. And so some questions from practice actually drove me back to a higher ed student affairs doctoral program where I met doctor Mayhew and began working on the INSPIRES index and some other projects.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:14]: And, Matt, how about you?

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:03:15]: Wow. That was really impressive, Renee, I have to say. That was efficient and well done. I can go on for hours here, but I'll just say that I have a history with data and numbers and a history in student affairs. And those histories align with the journey I had through college. So I started at College of the Holy Cross for my 1st year, transferred to Wheaton College, then to Brandeis University, and then to the University of Michigan where I received my doctorate. And along the way, of course, those schools do identify differentially by way of RSSI or religious, spiritual, and secular ways of thinking about schools and who they serve. And so from those kinds of context and those experiences, I kinda came into the idea that college and university life should prepare students to have productive dialogue across all walks of life, including those we typically call religious.

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:04:05]: And so I've practiced that in in not only my professorship, but also a long way. I was a resident director of a small college called Fisher College, Downtown Boston, and also I was the director of student life assessment at University of North Carolina at Wilmington. So my heart is in student affairs. I actually had a job in student affairs before becoming a professor of student affairs. And so all of those kinds of experiences blend together to inform my work.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:30]: I really enjoy the smallness of our profession sometimes. And just full disclosure for our audience, Renee and I have known each other for couple years now having met in that international education space. And Matt and I just met in the pre show chatter today, but we are connected to similar people within the profession. So I'm just gonna give a brief shout out to Ashley Staples, who I used to work with at NYU, who is I know a mentee of Matt's. So we're all interlaced in student affairs usually.

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:04:55]: Absolutely. Hello.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:57]: And you all are at Ohio State or as an Oregon State alum myself, I I always have to give you all a little bit of the business for being the other OSU, but I'm sure that's not not a thing you all hear a lot.

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:05:10]: Well, it's funny. No. We do, actually, because Oklahoma State also tends to have the same sort of introductory jokes and remarks. But remember, we are at the Ohio State.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:19]: So that might just irritate us a little bit. So That came out of here.

Dr. Renee Bolling [00:05:24]: Well and to be specific, we're at the College Impact Lab in the College of Education and Human Ecology at the Ohio State University.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:31]: Well, the work that you all are doing with the INSPIRES index, I thought fit in really nicely with our theme, the season of the past, present, and future of student affairs, particularly with the present and the future. INSPIRES is an acronym, so I'm hoping you can start with telling us what it stands for and kind of how you got here.

Dr. Renee Bolling [00:05:47]: It stands for the interfaith spiritual, religious, and secular campus climate index, INSPIRES for short, and it's really, an outgrowth of past research. It's a very much a research based assessment tool based on past ideals in research, which I I think doctor Mayhew can tell us more about in a moment. But its intention is really to provide benchmarking to institutions that they can use to improve practice for diverse RSSIs, and also to provide families, students, and the public with a public face facing tool that they can use for college choice to understand how different campuses are responding to and helping to support different students in this diversity.

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:06:25]: That's exactly right. And thank you, Renee, for saying that. So I turned it over to Renee because I couldn't remember because I'm getting old. And my students call it seasoning, but my daughter calls it balding. I couldn't remember actually what INSPIRE stood, but I can give you some of the background and context, and that is Alyssa Rockenbach from North Carolina State, what used to be called Interfaith Youth Corps, but is now called Interfaith America. And I kind of started this partnership a long time ago to try to look at what religious and worldview identities, how they developed during college. And we've surveyed over thousands and thousands of students over hundreds of schools and talked to faculty and staff along the way. And we learned a lot.

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:07:02]: And, basically, what the INSPIRES index does is it takes information from all of that research and and really distills it into one inventory so that we can say that campus x is a welcoming environment for Jewish students. Campus x might have some issues with being welcoming for Muslim students. And when we say that, it's not just theoretical. We've actually asked Jewish students and Muslim students, what makes you feel more welcome on campus? And then we turned those ideas into items on the inventory. So everything on the inventory comes from the voices of the very people we're trying to help.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:42]: What are some of the things that you're hearing are important for students who come from spiritual backgrounds, as they're looking at college choice?

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:07:49]: The number one thing I would say that kinda cuts across all the groups, and this surprises people a lot of times is, the idea of space for support and spiritual expression. So all students, even evangelical students and students who I don't have identify with any particular religion or non religious students, When they walk onto campus and they see that a campus provides prayer spaces for Muslim students that think, wow, this campus is welcoming toward all religious identities, even my own. And that came up over and over and over again with regard to how students were making meaning of what is welcoming for them. There are welcoming issues and factors for each group specifically. As an example, for Jewish students, having, kosher meals provided in every dining facility on campus is really important. Some institutions have them, but they're in different buildings across campus. And so, when Jewish students wanna have a meal with their friends and they don't wanna have to schlep across campus to friends, sometimes that compromises whether the the Jewish students can eat with their friends or not. And so that is something that Jewish students feel is very important for making them feel welcome is this idea that there are kosher meals at all dining facilities across campus.

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:09:02]: And we have examples of each of those kinds of things for each group.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:05]: Let's dig into that a little bit. I think it's it's quite fascinating to hear that the signal for inclusion may not even be related to my own identities, but whether or not the university or the college is is kind of outlying where inclusion happens for someone who might not identify like me. What do you make of that?

Dr. Renee Bolling [00:09:23]: Well, we do see it over and over again. For example, one of the things that we've noticed is that students are paying attention when another student is experiencing a negative incident on campus. They're watching and seeing how it's handled. They're watching to see how faculty respond. They're picking up on how they perceive other groups as being welcome or not, and that informs their own experience of the campus climate.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:46]: You all have been doing this work long before the campus protests began to erupt regarding Israel and Palestine across the last year. How are you seeing that work impacted or affected or the the way that students are responding to the index be affected by the current climate?

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:10:02]: It's a great question. We will have some data in about 2 weeks. You have to invite us back. We actually have a campus, a module as part of the INSPIRES index that asked campuses how they managed the campus protests over the course of the last year. And we asked very specific questions of campuses, and those questions came from experts in the Jewish faith and Muslim faith as well as psychometricians and folks on the ground. So student affairs officers who were dealing with the crisis on a day to day basis, we vetted the survey to make sure, oh, is this really tapping into the dimensions that you found to be important on campus? I think there's a lot to talk about here, but one of the things I'd like to talk about when this comes up is, you know, how religious diversity might differ from other forms of diversity. And because folks for a long time haven't thought about that really or or religion's been sort of stiff armed as something that is not as central to be an inclusion as other forms of Folks haven't really been readied for thinking about religion differently. So let me give you an example of that.

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:11:10]: There's a logic of choice that oftentimes is is associated with religion that's not associated with, say, other forms of diversity. And so there are in the western way we think about religion, especially, a lot of the students that come to campus think that religion is a choice. On Tuesday, you can be atheist, and on Wednesday, you could be an evangelical. And because of that choice that people have and how they identify, then that kind of makes its way into diversity conversations as a distinctive, way of thinking about how do we then inform practice, inform policies on campus when choice might be something that students are thinking about. Choice is not necessarily something some a lot of folks think about, say, in the context of race, in the context of GLBTQIA plus issues, in the context of those kinds of things. But with religion, especially from the western perspective, choice is something that's entertained. We have other logics too like coercion. That's a logic also that might be very specific to religion.

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:12:10]: How does an authentic conversation between people of different faiths or non faith based tradition, when does that evolve or devolve depending on whom you ask into a coercive conversation where somebody's trying to convert me rather than just have an authentic conversation about lived experiences? So those are the kinds of nuances that if we hadn't talked about religion, we need to start talking about it much more readily in order to really understand where the motivations for some of the protesting comes from and the policy set to manage the protest.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:41]: Let's back up for a second here, and I'd like to get into some of the demographics of the average American college campus. I think you're absolutely accurate in saying that the average student affairs practitioner maybe isn't as knowledgeable in the DEI spaces around religion as we might be around racial identity or ability or sexual orientation, etcetera. So who are our students right now on the average American campus? How are they identifying? And what do we know on kind of that metadata perspective?

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:13:09]: I think that it's very different, Jill, based on the college that you're asking about. So when we think about things like Christian colleges or evangelical schools, what the average, if you will, look or makeup of that campus, it's gonna be very different than students may be at a public institution, and that's gonna look very different than students may be at a private institution, and that's gonna look very different than students may be at a private nonsectarian institution. And so the way we think about context really does inform the answer to that question. What we do know just in general is that over the college experience, there are more students who are leaving formalized religion and identifying rather as spiritual and non religious, and that's kind of growing over time. We've also learned though that there are students, who go into college with a certain faith based background and they actually meet other folks, and they discuss ideas and life choices and purpose and calling with those folks. And it oftentimes strengthens their commitment to their faith because the students are able to make their faith their own. And so it's very difficult to, like, hone in on specific statistics because the context differs so much.

Dr. Renee Bolling [00:14:15]: That's true. And one of the things that we've done with INSPIRE is we've looked across institutional type. So comparing institutions to like institutions, whether those are private, public, have a religious affiliation, or a particular type of religious affiliation, trying to compare apples to apples in that sense so that when they're benchmarked, they're seeing how other institutions like them are doing serving their populations.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:38]: What is the role of student affairs today in supporting students' spiritual identity, spiritual growth, or spiritual connection?

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:14:46]: Well, this could take hours, and I love it. So somebody recently just asked me to to to talk about this. And there are really a couple of things and I'll I'll just bring up the the first two that come to mind. Students are really able to differentiate between relationships that they find harmful, that they find coercive, and that they find challenging and provocative. And so the key for student affairs practitioners is in whatever context they are in, whether they're putting on a program or an activity, they need to design an environment where students are challenged, but students are not harmed by what's going on in that space. And the only way to do that is for the educator really to shore up their own knowledge about power in the space, their own knowledge about white Christian nationalism, and how that's kind of forced its way into the academy, insidious and sometimes overt ways, but also being able to wrestle with their own RSSI identity, if you will. Try to make meaning of that so that they can provide kind of a measurable vulnerability as an introduction into the context and space. That's one thing I would say needs to happen.

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:15:50]: The other, and this is critically important, this is really hard, is for the activities and the programs themselves to be bridge building. So it can't be that you just have an activity over here for evangelicals and you happen to invite atheists to the activity for evangelicals and hope magic happens. There has to be some intentional bridge building around the program or activity where conversations enable people to talk about their lived experiences in ways that are really challenging, but supported by the folks who are actually in the space running it.

Dr. Renee Bolling [00:16:22]: And this gets to something that you were you were sharing and asking about earlier, which is that the training that we have in student affairs around this. We know from INSPIREs that from our participating campuses, the highest area of folks who have training in, religious diversity in that background is in residence life and mental health counselors, and that's at around 30% having that training. In other areas, academic advising, health center and wellness staff, career counselors, we're looking at between 6 10% having training in this area. So this is a very large need in our in our profession.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:55]: And how do we balance all of the need to be educated and informed in this situation with what some people would say might be butting up against the values of a public institution?

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:17:04]: Well, I think first of all, we need to understand that even though there's a a general understanding or at least access to language about separation between church and state, folks need to understand what that actually means. What that actually doesn't mean is that you can't talk about religion on campus. You could talk about religion all you want on campus and whatever space you want. Separation of church and state has nothing to do with what's discussed on campus. That's the first thing. The second thing that's really important to understand is if we don't talk about religion in spaces where students want to talk about religion, then how in the world are we educating the whole student? How are we really getting at their lived experiences if we're saying, oh, well, 80% of your lived experiences we'll talk about, but the 20% having to do with religion, that's not welcome here. It doesn't make sense. And so I think we have to really start to think holistically about how we offer the educations we do offer at colleges and universities.

Dr. Renee Bolling [00:18:01]: There's also a distinction between devotional teaching about a tradition or a worldview and academic or teaching about that religious, secular, or spiritual worldview and engaging and having authentic encounters with difference. And that's what we're talking about here is being equipped to have those encounters in ways that are productive, in ways that build a a sense of pluralism where everyone is welcome, and these aren't conversations that we're afraid to have, but that we're empowered to have in ways that are respectful and respect the dignity of all students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:32]: Let's talk about what that training can look like for student affairs practitioners. What is it that institutions are doing well right now that leads them to these inclusive spaces?

Dr. Renee Bolling [00:18:42]: More and more institutions are starting to have multi faith spaces and spaces for religious identities to feel a sense of safety, have a safe space that they can go and express their religious identity. I think where we need to work a little bit more is on these brave spaces and building up faculty and staff training to be able to, facilitate some of these encounters. Another area that we are doing somewhat well in, as was touched on earlier, was accommodations for different religious and spiritual identities to be able to access food. We know that food insecurity is an issue across different groups on campus, but we could be doing better, like Doctor. Mayhew said, in making sure that this isn't just one place on campus, but that it's throughout our dining and residential facilities.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:23]: That food element is so critical. I know last year we had Ramadan fasting happening during a lot of people's finals weeks, which deeply impacts the students' ability to be successful. We've also had fasting for other holidays happening in conjunction with all sorts of other things that could impact student performance in the classroom. So I think that's one way to to fundamentally connect where the rubber meets the road really in terms of inclusion.

Dr. Renee Bolling [00:19:46]: One thing that we learned from surveying presidents after the incidents of October 7th was that there are not enough, religious, secular, and spiritual or interfaith councils on campuses where that line of communication is opened up between the university, between student affairs professionals, and between both students who represent different religious identities and community members and community leaders who also represent them. And that's an area for growth for the profession, and it's also an area that presidents of universities have expressed interest in.

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:20:16]: Right. I was just gonna say that was so eloquently put, Renee. Thank you. But I was gonna invite some of my colleagues across the country. And for those of you who are graduates of student affairs programs, please call or get in touch with the people who are still on campus teaching the next generation of of practitioner. A lot of the programs that we've seen have shored up the curriculum in ways that spiritual, religious, and secular diversity doesn't even make it into courses on, student development and learning anymore. It used to be we had a full year at Ohio State of that course, and we've actually had to cut back because students wanted other requirements. And in cutting back, sometimes we miss the whole conversation because there's just not enough space in the classroom to talk about it.

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:20:57]: And so I think that that's really important if we do value it and if students are living it, then we need to have some formal training in how to think about RSSI work while students are getting their master's degrees and then moving on into the profession.

Dr. Renee Bolling [00:21:11]: I think one opportunity for us is in thinking about students' multidimensional identities and even their intersectionality. What we know is that not everywhere views their religious, secular, or spiritual identity as a choice. There are definitely religious cultures, a religious, and spiritual communities of belonging that are more about praxis or about community than they are even about belief. And so I think that's an area to think about where this crossover is between different types of diversity.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:37]: Let's go back to the index. You've worked with dozens and dozens of institutions. We can see them all on the website. If I'm an institution that is interested in becoming part of the index process, what am I going to receive as an outcome? What what is involved with my students? What information should I be looking forward to? What can I change of my practice based on the dataset I might get back?

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:21:58]: Well, let me provide a context and then I'll head it over. I'll kick it over to Renee really quickly. So with generous funding from the Arthur Defining Davis Foundations, we've been able to provide this index for free for institutions. It's also not a survey of students. It's one inventory that somebody or a group of somebodies takes on behalf of their institution that then comes back to us and we analyze. And analysis will give them some insight. We do provide specific reporting back to the institutions to give them insight on how they're doing compared to students like that or or other institutions like them. Excuse me.

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:22:32]: And so that is kind of what the institutions get. And then what the what the public gets, if the institution allows their data to go public, you know, folks are able to see kind of how they're doing in different spaces. And that's really helpful, not only in the spirit of transparency, which we hope most institutions have, but also just giving caregivers and the students the information they need when they're making college decisions.

Dr. Renee Bolling [00:22:54]: The 2 kind of feedback mechanisms for university are a scorecard that is produced where they receive a star rating on 7 different areas or domains, and then they also receive a report that gives recommendations based on those star ratings. The 7 domains are religious accommodations, space for support and expression, structural diversity, institutional behavior, efforts to reduce negative engagement, and extracurricular engagement.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:20]: The most important thing I think you said is that it's free for institutions right now due to grant funding. It's very rare that we get rich assessment tools that we don't have to invest in. Sounds like there's a time investment, but not necessarily a monetary one right now. So if I'm an institution and this is speaking to me or maybe I'm I'm listening, I'm a VPSA and I think we need to do this, How can we make that happen?

Dr. Renee Bolling [00:23:39]: Well, I'd love to direct you to our INSPIRE's index website, which is very simply inspiresindex.org. And we also have QR code access and other such things that we can share. But right now, there is a live link direct to begin the survey open through December 16th, and we're welcoming new campuses to join in.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:57]: Is there anything else you want student affairs voices from the field listeners to know about this important work that you're doing with religious identity and spiritual interfaith identity on college campuses?

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:24:07]: Well, there's a ton more, and I wish we had hours to talk about this because this is our life work. I will say with regard to the index, only because Gillette comes up so often. Even though the press and other people ask us to rank institutions like who's doing the best at what, we don't do that. It violates the whole spirit of what inspires us all about. So we might have a couple of institutions that we say these institutions collectively are doing a pretty good job at x or y or z, but we're never gonna say this institution ranks 1, you rank 2, you rank 3. It just violates the whole thing. And I think that's really important for folks who are making decisions about participation, know, that we are never going to allow that to happen. And so I think that's really important because in the spirit of what we're trying to do here, which is bring people together through thinking, strategically as well as thoughtfully about religious, spiritual, and secular diversity, it's just not it's not aligned with any of the values that we carry forward.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:00]: Without naming an institution then, can you identify some of the practices that are looking really promising in this area that are happening on campuses right now?

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:25:08]: Oh, sure. I think, transportation is a big one. So when folks need to go to different places to pray or to have reflection time or different spaces on campus, oftentimes that they need to practice whatever they wanna practice, a lot of institutions are providing free transportation to those spaces because there's not necessarily gonna be a prayer space set in every residence hall, for example. That's a very promising practice that we see folks are engaging right now. Another promising practice is folks are really starting to take on the idea of bias reporting in this space and how to close the loop. So oftentimes, people will will report something or students will report that something happened, and then they feel like it goes into an echo chamber, and they never really get information on what actually happened with their complaint. And so we do have institutions that are really being very strategic about closing that loop a bit to ensure that everybody knows that this is a safe place, and there will be responsiveness when these issues come up. There's a lot of others as well, but those are the ones that I've recently been speaking about at least, and there's more for sure.

Dr. Renee Bolling [00:26:12]: If I may, I think there's also some things on more of a macro structural level that we're starting to see. It used to be that you saw religious and spiritual life offices more at private campuses, and we're beginning to see more of them at public universities, even flagship universities. And that's exciting to see that commitment to equity across different types of religious expression and diversity as something that is protected under our amendment rights, but also something that can be supportive of students in their diversity. So that's exciting to see. We know already that that there's chaplaincy available at public institutions in their medical schools. It's just not nearly as readily available on the student facing side for undergraduate and graduate students. So I think there's a lot of opportunity here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:54]: I'm going to go ahead and move us into our theme questions for the season. And again, we're focusing on the past, present, and future of student affairs. So I'm gonna ask you one question from each era. So on the past, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should either continue to carry forward or alternatively let go of?

Dr. Renee Bolling [00:27:15]: I think a focus on holistic learning and holistic student development requires us to pay attention to how students are doing spiritually and their spiritual diversity.

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:27:24]: I think the whole idea that religion is something that we shouldn't bring up or that we shouldn't actually be intentional about should be abandoned. Obviously, I think that there's a lot of room in the way we think about providing services and activities to students, especially the whole student, like Renee said, for us to strategically think about how to put these programs together in ways that are actually bringing folks together and healing communities.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:46]: Moving into the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs?

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:27:51]: Well, I think student affairs is doing a really good job right now at trying to provide places for students who might be experiencing some sort of struggle in their journey in college, providing them a place to struggle, a place to be free about talking about those struggles, a place to be free about thinking about new ideas, and whether that is in the residence halls with their, residence life staff. As Renee said, a lot of the institutions are training their staff across different functional areas. So we do know the word is getting out. So wherever students decide to have those struggles, there's some shining hope that people across functional areas are actually being trained to talk about these issues with students.

Dr. Renee Bolling [00:28:31]: I think in the present, we're seeing a good amount of conflict in our world that it reaches our campuses at times, and that's to be expected. I think that some of the work that we're doing and sharing about can provide some tools to campuses to better address when these issues arise on their campus so that the first time they're building building relationships and bridges isn't after something happens, but more proactively before things happen.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:56]: And looking towards the future, in an ideal world, what does the field need to be doing to thrive towards the future?

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:29:01]: There's so many things I wanna say that I'm trying to distill it down into one area here. I think that for the future, higher education programs especially need to take on the challenge of training students on how to effectively manage any sort of or tension on campus due to religious and spiritual and secular diversity. I think that that's a challenge. I don't know if there's a lot of people out there who know how to train the trainers or even professors who know how to train the future generations. And so thinking about that is really, really challenging, but I think it's gonna become more and more important as the world shrinks due to technology. And like Renee said, as things are starting to lean into college campuses from, from what's happening overseas, religion's just gonna become more and more important as something to think about.

Dr. Renee Bolling [00:29:44]: I'm going to piggyback off of that with my answer. I think this connection between religious, secular, and spiritual or worldview identity and culture, ethnicity, language, and class, I think exploring those connections is gonna continue to be important rather than thinking about diversity in kind of isolated spaces.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:02]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:08]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. Doctor Janai Chandler has joined the, research and Policy Institute for NASPA as the new vice president for research and policy. With over 17 years experience as a higher education practitioner, researcher, and policy advocate, she aims to equip NASPA members and student affairs professionals with valuable research and policy tools to enhance student and staff success. Doctor. Chandler is particularly eager to engage with the 2024 top issues and hear from you about how to best support your work. She's a proud graduate of the HESA doctoral program at Florida State University, where she worked in advising and academic affairs. There's a brand new book in the NASPA bookstore entitled The Next Act, Realigning Your Mindset, Purpose and Career.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:02]: The Next Act Realigning Your Mindset, Purpose and Career explores diverse career development opportunities for student affairs professionals. The book discusses broadly how professionals can navigate their career paths within and beyond higher education, encouraging adaptability and personal growth. Through real life narratives, the authors offer practical advice on assessing and aligning one's career with personal passions and evolving professional goals. They also challenge traditional views on career advancement, emphasizing the importance of finding fulfillment and purpose in work. The chapters examine a wide range of career transitions from advancing within student affairs to moving into consulting, faculty roles, or even PK-twelve education. By reading this book, you will gain valuable insights on how to adapt to the ever evolving higher education landscape while discovering new opportunities for leadership and success. Whether you're considering a career shift or seeking to advance your current role, this book offers a wealth of guidance on finding purpose and achieving long term career satisfaction. Speaking of the 2024 top issues in student affairs, this annual survey completed by senior leaders in student affairs offers you a snapshot of the most important issues impacting institutions in 2024.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:19]: NASPA recently released the top ten issues in 2024, some of which include issues in regard to health, safety and well-being, administration and governance, assessment and evaluation and more. I highly encourage you to go to the NASPA website under Reports and Briefs, which can be found on the NASPA website under publications and then reports. You will find the full list of the top ten key areas, which I've mentioned to you already, and the specific issues in those areas that chief student affairs officers have listed as important for our profession. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey. I see myself in that knowledge community.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:49]: I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:19]: Chris, thank you as always for for providing us an informative NASPA world segment. It's always great to know what's going on in and around NASPA. And we have now reached our lightning round, Renee and Matt. So I have 7 questions for you to answer in about 90 seconds. Are you ready to go?

Dr. Renee Bolling [00:34:35]: Let's go. Let's do it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:37]: Alright. Question 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Renee Bolling [00:34:42]: Small town girl.

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:34:43]: We will rock you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:43]: 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Dr. Renee Bolling [00:34:47]: Somebody who traveled a lot.

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:34:48]: Wanted to be my dad.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:49]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Renee Bolling [00:34:52]: Dr. Eleanor Nicholson.

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:34:53]: Dr. Ernie Pasquarello.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:54]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Renee Bolling [00:34:57]: I'll say the Journal of Student Affairs Research and Practice.

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:35:00]: How College Affects Students, volume 3.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:02]: Number 5, the best TV show you've binged lately.

Dr. Renee Bolling [00:35:05]: I'm a huge Outlander fan.

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:35:06]: The Bear.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:07]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Renee Bolling [00:35:10]: I'd have to say this one.

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:35:12]: I'm not a big podcast person.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:13]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Renee Bolling [00:35:17]: I'd love to give a professional shout out to the entire College Impact Lab or COIL Lab team at OSU, the brains and the brawn behind the INSPIRES index.

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:35:26]: I would like to give a shout out to all of the funders who've participated in this and all of the institutions that have partnered with us. There's been a lot of institutions with us along the way and they stay with us and we do see it as a partnership. So thank you all for your continued, continued partnerships.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:40]: It's been so wonderful to learn from both of you about the important work that you're doing on RSSI on college campuses and the information that you're putting out for all of us so we can continue to learn, improve our practices. If I would like to get a hold of you after the show, how can I find you?

Dr. Renee Bolling [00:35:55]: If you reach us at the inspiresindex.org website, you'll be able to find contact to our team, and we're happy to be in touch with you.

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:36:03]: And my email at work, it's publicmayhue.65@osu.edu.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:08]: And, Renee and Matt, thank you so much for sharing your voices with us today.

Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:36:12]: Thank you, Jill. This was great. I appreciate you.

Dr. Renee Bolling [00:36:14]: Happy to be here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:20]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:54]: This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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This week on NASPA's SA Voices From the Field podcast Dr. Jill Creighton sat down with Duane Bedell, President of Bay Mills Community College (BMCC), to delve into the vital role the college plays in supporting student success and cultural preservation within tribal communities. From leadership advice to the integration of Ojibwe culture into educational frameworks, Bedell shared his path and vision for BMCC, emphasizing the college's motto of fostering personal and professional growth among its students.

Bay Mills Community College: A Foundation for Success Duane Bedell underscores BMCC's mission to empower students to pursue further education or establish themselves in the workforce. At BMCC, mentorship and personalized guidance are integral to the student experience. Bedell highlights how the institution offers a supportive environment that helps students build confidence and identify their paths, whether it be continuing their education or entering their chosen careers.

Encouraging Advanced Education and Leadership A passionate advocate for higher education, Bedell encourages students and staff at BMCC to aspire toward advanced degrees like PhDs and EdDs. He shares his own journey, starting as an adjunct faculty member in 2000 and progressing to the role of president in 2020, a journey marked by mentorship and dedication. His leadership advice is practical yet profound: take calculated risks, prepare for sacrifices, maintain an open mind, and always value team feedback. For Bedell, balancing professional responsibilities with personal life is key, and he promotes a healthy work-life balance among his team members by setting boundaries and prioritizing personal time.

Integrating Ojibwe Culture into Education One of BMCC's unique aspects is its commitment to integrating Ojibwe culture into every course and aspect of campus life. Bedell emphasizes the importance of cultural sensitivity and understanding within educational institutions, particularly those serving tribal communities. Through partnerships with various tribes across the U.S. and innovative teaching strategies, BMCC ensures that students are deeply connected to their heritage and traditions. This holistic approach not only preserves cultural knowledge but also enriches the educational experience, making it more relevant and engaging for students.

Supporting Student Transfers and Success Bedell's doctoral research focuses on the alarming success rates of tribal students as they transition from tribal colleges to mainstream institutions. Key findings suggest that a strong sense of community and family proximity are critical factors for student success. To facilitate this transition, Bedell advocates for collaborative practices between tribal and mainstream institutions, encouraging better communication and resource sharing.

Future Directions and Concluding Thoughts As BMCC looks towards the future, Bedell envisions the need for education to adapt to societal changes and trends to meet evolving student needs effectively. Improvements in data collection and communication have already enhanced decision-making processes and student support services within higher education. Ultimately, Bedell’s leadership and insights illuminate how institutions can balance cultural preservation with academic excellence, offering a model for other colleges to follow.

You are encouraged to share feedback, suggest new topics or guests, and leave a 5-star review on podcast platforms, helping SA Voices Form the Field continue delivering enriching conversations and insights from leaders like Duane Bedell.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices From the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on Essay Voices, we welcome Duane Biddell, president of Bay Mills Community College. Duane resides in Ganuja Kaaneng, the place of the pike in the Bay Mills Indian community, and has worked in tribal communities for more than 20 years in various roles. He served as an information technology director for the Intertribal Council of Michigan, an adjunct faculty member for Bay Mills Community College, BMCC, and a full time faculty member and computer information systems department chair. He also served as Bay Mills Indian Community tribal manager for 2 years before being named by BMCC's Board of Regions as BMCC's president and CEO in 2020. Bedell attended and graduated from tribal colleges.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:02]: He attended Haskell Indian Junior College and completed his studies at BMCC in 1998 with an associate of applied science degree in computer information systems. While working full time and raising a family, Duane continued his education earning a bachelor's degree in information technology and security from Baker College in 2013 and a master of arts degree in education technology from the University

Duane Bedell [00:01:21]: of Michigan Flint in 2015. In 2018, he

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:21]: completed an education 2018, he completed an education specialist degree from the University of Michigan Flint. And in 2020, he earned the status of doctoral candidate in education administration. Fidel is expected to defend his dissertation in November of 2024. His commitment to giving back to education involves a presidential appointment to the National Advisory Council on Indian Education, along with mentoring future leaders who have an interest in higher education. Duane likes to be known as just a guy trying to make a difference in education. Duane, welcome to SA Voices.

Duane Bedell [00:01:52]: Hi. It's great to be here today, and I absolutely look forward to our conversation today.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:57]: It's always such a pleasure for us here in a student affairs podcast to feature a college president because we can always learn from the much larger context of higher education when we get to hear your perspective on things. You're the current president of Bay Mills Community College, which is a community college that does focus on serving American Indians and indigenous American populations in your part of Michigan. And we always love to start off of our episodes by asking our guests, how did you get to your current seat?

Duane Bedell [00:02:25]: Well, there is a long story that's behind it, but I'm gonna do my best to condense this. I started off as a adjunct faculty member here at Bay Mills Community College back in 2000, and the way I was asked to teach a computer science course, it was I was the only available person really, and they called me and they asked if I could teach the course. And of course, being a shy, nervous IT guy at the time, I had thought there is no way I could stand in front of someone around a classroom, particularly for folks who are generally older than I am. Because at that time, Big Boss Community College had a lot of non traditional students, and I think I was 23, maybe 24 at the time when I was asked to teach this course. So I told them I would do it if they couldn't find anybody, but honestly, I don't think they even tried because they called back in about 10 minutes and asked, hey, we couldn't find anybody, so could you teach this course? So moving forward 10 years later, I decided to become a full time faculty member here at Bay Mills Community College. And at that time, I decided I wanted to try something a little bit different, and I wanted to learn a little bit about administration. So I started asking questions, and I became involved with the occupational programs that we have here, and got to meet a lot of great folks throughout the state to learn about the occupational services or our program through all of the community colleges in Michigan. And I just asked that one question one day to our president.

Duane Bedell [00:03:39]: I said, you know, what do I have to do to become the next you? Because he had signified that he was going to try to start mentoring some folks who were on the team already to see. So I had a private conversation with him over coffee, and he gave me a couple of really good pieces of advice that I followed up on and made happen. And lo and behold, here I am. I I am sitting in this role for 5 years now. I'm loving every minute of it. And I can tell you one thing, just to see the students really light up from the day that they walk into our facilities until the day that they graduate is just what I'm in it for. It's just watching student success and watching actually my team grow here at the college as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:15]: That's an amazing glow up from IT guy at the college all the way through sitting in the president's office today. What is the most important thing that your community college is focusing on right now?

Duane Bedell [00:04:25]: Really just to meet the students where they are at right now. Like a lot of other community colleges, we get students that come from all walks of life. We have students who are full time parents, who are single parents, who are working full time jobs when trying to manage their family. But one of the most important things that we do here is strive to meet the student where they're at in life and provide the resources for them. I think as the community college, it's very important for us to learn who our students are, to learn about their different learning styles, and find the resources that are available to fit them specifically so they can move forward in their academic program.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:01]: Because your community college is fulfilling a very specific need in Michigan, what are you doing that might be unique for Bay Mills that other community colleges aren't doing? Or what are you doing that you might think even be more cutting edge than what we might see at another community college?

Duane Bedell [00:05:17]: So one of the things that we do here at Bay Mills Community College, since we're designated as a tribal college, is that we incorporate our culture into every aspect of our campus. You can walk around the campus and see things written in the Ojibwe language. You can learn about the Ojibwe cultures in your classes. But most importantly is that you get to feel the sense of community while you are here as well. And once we incorporate all of these aspects into it, we really give a holistic learning environment for our students. Cutting Edge technology, we represent several tribes throughout the United States, and we also have partnerships with other tribal communities throughout the nation as well. So the last numbers that I took a look at, we represent 23 streets in the nation, and then we also represent, I believe it's 31 or maybe 32 tribes throughout the United States, and that's through our online environment. We do have a a, a lot of program that goes online towards tribal students, or essentially everybody can take these courses from from their homes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:13]: In the theme of past, present, and future of student affairs and really your case, higher education, I'm really appreciative of the of the way that you're talking about. You know, it's it's an experience where our culture is part of the curriculum rather than it's something that we're trying to squeeze in as something extra, which is what a lot of universities sometimes find themselves doing. So when you talk about kind of infusing or even weaving in Ojibwe culture into all aspects of student life, Can you give us a couple of examples of what that looks like in practice?

Duane Bedell [00:06:44]: Certainly. So our instructors or every course that's offered here on campus, whether it's an in person course or an online course, has to have some component throughout the semester that evolves around culture, or Anishinaabe culture, I should say. And our teachers have became very creative at that and how to incorporate culture into their curriculum. So I will follow-up on one example that that I was really fascinated by, and this came from a college algebra course, actually. So, you know, trying to blend math with Anishinaabe culture, or Ojibwe culture, is kind of difficult to do. But our math faculty member decided to have students work on building traditional regalia, dance regalia, but using mathematics and doing that as well. Another item too is just, you know, incorporate what our medicine wheel is or incorporate what our 7 grandfathers' teachings are as well. And we've incorporated these types of teachings into every course.

Duane Bedell [00:07:36]: In fact, it's it's mandatory for every course to have this embedded into their syllabus.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:40]: When you think about, syllabus. When you think about the past, present, and future of tribal colleges, you know, it's a bigger question than your particular community college. Can you tell us about the trends, for incorporation of culture or how we've kind of evolved over time in higher education to serve our indigenous American and American Indian population?

Duane Bedell [00:07:59]: You know, that that's a really good question. Where we have come from the past is just recognizing who tribal communities are and recognizing and learning about the different cultures and the different traditions that are involved with the tribal communities. And finding a way to bring that into a college could be difficult because there's so many aspects on that. But being located in a tribal community makes it a lot easier for a tribal college to do so. And one of the things is to always have the open ear and always listen because I don't know everything about my culture. And there's a lot of folks that I work with that don't know everything, but we rely on input from our community, particularly our elders. And our elders are really guiding us on the ways that help keep our traditions and our cultures alive throughout the program. So that way, the future generation will always have that as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:47]: Let's talk about student affairs specifically in your collegiate environment. I would imagine that you're also doing the same work to incorporate tradition and culture into aspects of student affairs. So with the team that you're leading, how are you taking the literature and the best practices that student affairs as a profession puts forth and making them work for your environment given that we know that our research is really focused on usually predominantly white institutions, predominantly white students, traditionally aged populations, all of those things.

Duane Bedell [00:09:16]: First of all, I have to say I have an excellent student services team. We really have a a team that is very dedicated to student success and finding the resources for our students as well. But one of the things that our team does is really take a look at the data. They take a look at the data from, from existing research, but they also take a look at ways that we can incorporate our tribal values into that as well. So they go about this to not only help students become successful, but also help them learn about their by providing a lot of events on campus. We host cultural events probably 3 to 4, sometimes 5 times a month and so on. But at the same time, teaching the students how to take that knowledge that they're learning and turn it into ways that they can become more professional and more successful by really just building the confidence that they can truly learn and that they can truly accomplish anything that they put their minds behind.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:08]: Anything that you're particularly proud of in your community right now in this regard?

Duane Bedell [00:10:12]: Just watching our tribal community grow and become more educated and not be afraid of education. When I first moved to the community and as I stated before recording, I was a military brat, so I got to travel around the world. When I first came here to our community, there were only 2 tribal members that had master's degrees. So moving forward about 25 years now, we have a significant amount of tribal members who have college degrees, whether they're associate degrees, whether they're bachelor's degrees, master's degrees, and doctoral degrees now, which to me is a huge accomplishment to see where we were back early nineties to where we're at right now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:49]: You yourself are in the final stages of your doctoral dissertation, Polish. Can you tell us about your research?

Duane Bedell [00:10:55]: So my research is really focusing on the success rate of tribal students who go to a tribal college versus students who go directly to a mainstream institution. And one of the emphasis that I really focused on is that tribal college, are they more successful when they transfer from the tribal college to go when they go to a university? And if so, what are some of the factors that that fall behind that? And one of the things that I really found was that the it's the sense of community at the tribal colleges. And the other part was that they're close to home. They have access to their families. Whereas if someone goes directly from a tribal community, which are typically rural areas, and move to a I'll use University of Michigan, for example, move to that campus. And just imagine how big that campus is. Their campus body is probably about sometimes 8 to 10 times larger than their entire community and trying to adapt to that, especially moving away from their families. So I was curious to see what are the success rates with the hopes of being able to develop a program that will allow mainstream institutions and tribal colleges to work together to support the, Native American students that attend their institutions.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:59]: That's an amazing outcome from that research. What would that look like in practice? I think what would look like outcome from that research. What would that look like in practice?

Duane Bedell [00:12:02]: Yeah. I think what would look like is that both parties or institutions should have to sit down and share practices, knowledge, and share how they can engage particularly tribal students going to their institutions. But at the same time, folks who have tribal college also have to learn how the mainstream institutions work. So that way, they compare their prepared students as well when they make that transfer over. It's gonna take a lot of good conversations and a lot of planning, but I think it's something that can certainly happen.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:29]: There's a lot of social capital when we work with transfer students. And I think a lot of the things that benefit 1st gen students and what we know about 1st gen student research also applies to students who are transferring. And a lot of that has to do with simply doing the right onboarding for students on how to understand the system that they're entering. When we think about supporting students who are transferring from tribal colleges to, as as you term mainstream universities, what's the most important thing that the receiving institution can do to receive those students and set them up for success?

Duane Bedell [00:13:00]: Just have available resources ready for them and be really prepared to have a method to get these students to ask questions. A lot of times from our Native Americans in particular and myself, I'm one of them. I was really shy and I didn't know what types of questions I need to ask. I didn't know where I could find his resources. Probably just me being stubborn too is that I can figure it out on my own. And I'm sure that there are a lot of students that have that same mindset. So just in taking the student, show them the resources that are available, but most importantly, show them and teach them that they can be comfortable asking any question that they need to ask in order to find the resources or maybe even if it's just a a tour of the campus or introduce them to some key staff members, maybe a professor, maybe, someone from the student services that can be their person to go to. And I think if a student that transfers over has an individual that they can talk to and ask questions, I think that's gonna help a lot.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:55]: And if I'm a professional right now working at a tribal college, what can I take from your research and implement at my institution?

Duane Bedell [00:14:00]: What you can take from from my research is really just to learn more about the institutions that our students can transfer to. So here, particularly in the state of Michigan, we have a wide range of different types of universities that we can go to. We have our mid 10 universities. We have our smaller universities like Central Michigan or Ferris State University, I. E. Even Northern Michigan University. But learning about the resources on that campus and learning about the individuals that they can contact individually just to learn more about that. So if they were going to send a student to Northern Michigan, I would say, our team should know exactly who's your advisor, what programs are gonna be there, and in what ways can Bay Mills Community College help you become more comfortable when you're transferring over? And I think if we ask those questions and create those contacts, I think it's gonna help a lot of our students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:46]: What do you dream about for your institution?

Duane Bedell [00:14:48]: I dream about a lot of things, and I know that our institution really accomplished anything that we work toward because of the team that I have here. But first and foremost, I really just want to be the institution that is a place for folks to come and learn a little bit about themselves, gain confidence, and be able to leave our institution with the confidence to succeed at a mainstream university or enter the workforce and be confident about it. One of my biggest pushes as of late is to see if we can get more doctors out there that are in our communities. So, you know, it all starts with that conversation. And I really go around, even with some of my staff members here and students, is I know that they're completing the end of their studies here and they move on, I always plant that seed. Maybe you want to think about a PhD or an EdD. Maybe if you want it, if you want to come back and lead Bay Mills Community College, please let me know because I'd be more than happy to sit down and mentor you and show you the steps that you need to take in order to gain a position like this. So on.

Duane Bedell [00:15:43]: But, you know, the biggest dream is just to be a tribal college that is well known throughout the state of Michigan and the nation for our program that we have here. And for folks to know how good of a staff that I have here. My team, like I said before, is phenomenal and we couldn't be where we're at today without our team.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:02]: You've mentioned the theme of mentorship a couple of times in our conversation is kind of a key to your success and hearing you moving others along the path pathway as well. What does mentorship look like at BMCC?

Duane Bedell [00:16:13]: Really what mentorship looks like to BMCC, particularly, and I'm gonna use an example here with a couple of staff members that that I've been working with. And these are our our team members who graduated from Bay Mills Community College and had come on as employees at Bay Mills Community College. But just to watch them gain the confidence to earn a bachelor's degree, then move on to a master's degree. And the hope is now is to get them to a doctorial degree. But mentorship is just having just the day to day conversations, with them. And to me, it's not all business. I take the time to learn a little bit about their family life, take the time to learn about their hobbies, and then I find ways to incorporate those into the conversation when we start talking about leadership positions or the next steps in their studies just to see, you know, what can I do to really help them not be afraid to take that next step? And I'm as transparent as you can be. I would tell you the ups and downs of this position or any other position that I led, but I'm also will also find a way to find a way to strategize to overcome that obstacle as well.

Duane Bedell [00:17:10]: To me, that's what mentorship is is what it's all about. So I

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:17]: think a lot of professionals look at that presidential position as an ultimate aspiration. Not all all of us are going to get there or not all of us want to get there. That's all okay. What advice do you have for those on the pathway to eventually sit in a seat like yours?

Duane Bedell [00:17:32]: The advice I have is to not be afraid to take chances or take any risk and not be afraid to push yourself. There's going to be times where you are gonna have to sacrifice a lot in order to obtain the knowledge and taking the skills that you need to be successful in this position. But most important is to have an open mind. I've learned that over the last 5 years being in this role is that you have to have an open mind to everything, and that you also have to be able to have those conversations with your teams because you also have to realize that you're not the one that knows everything. That's when you bring your team, but you have to, rely on the feedback that you get from your teammates as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:10]: There seems to be, as of late, more and more pressure on college presidents to be increasingly infallible, which we know is ultimately an impossibility. How do you manage the pressure of that type of senior leadership along with the realities that, you know, you're a human being doing the best they can on a day to day?

Duane Bedell [00:18:27]: You know, one of the things that I've learned a long time ago was how to balance my family life, my professional life, and my academic life. And I think that's how I became really able to manage the whole process of education, I guess you could say. So how to manage writing a paper or going through the school work to earn a doctor's degree, but most importantly is just being able to turn off the phone, I guess you can say, or turn off the emails I had a specific time to spend time with your family. I know that sometimes it could be difficult, but I think one of the things that I've learned about working here at Bay Mills Community College, and I've seen it transpire across the entire campus, is that it's okay to turn off your emails, it's okay to turn off your phone, and it's okay to go outdoors, take a walk outside, get your breath, and just focus on you and your family. And I think just relying on the support systems that that I have and the, colleagues that I have here, and just by not being a I guess I'm I'm not a high stress person, so it takes a lot to really stress me out, which really, really happens. But just being able just to step away, take a deep breath, and come back in and go back at it again, I think that's the way that it's going to lead you to success and prevent burnout.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:37]: What a gift to be able to give to your team as well to say, you know, it's okay. As the president, I'm turning off my email. As the president, I'm taking time for my family. And that I absolutely know is something that is felt by everyone who works with you.

Duane Bedell [00:19:51]: So one of the examples that I I have learned, and I have told these folks across the nation because working with other tribal colleges and other tribal college leaders, is that all of my colleagues nationwide, they know not to contact me after 7 PM Eastern Standard Time because they know I will not answer. I will not look at my phone until the next morning. But if they send an email at 6:55 PM, I can respond real quick, and then I'll turn my phone off. But just send them that message out and send them that that those are the times that I will not respond because it's my personal time, it's my family time. And if you make that a priority, I think that's really gonna help be you be successful as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:24]: Little shift of topic here. I'm wondering if you can share if there's anything you wish that mainstream university administrators knew about tribal colleges and the amazing work that you are all doing.

Duane Bedell [00:20:35]: I think it's important for mainstream institutions that are near tribal communities to take the time to learn about the customs. And I'm gonna share an example here. This individual was a a student here, but he was very soft spoken, very shy. And oftentimes, he did not look folks directly in the eyes as they were speaking. And I remember he came back to campus one day and asked how he could or if I had any advice for him because his professor had essentially told him that he was going to get kicked out of class for not maintaining eye contact and being disrespectful. After learning a little bit about the Ojibwe culture, it's in fact, customary for a lot of folks not to make eye contact, when they're having direct conversations like that. And just shedding a little bit of light on that, I think, can help, a long ways or help mainstream institutions understand their Native American population as well. The other aspect to it is to just really sit down and meet them where they're at.

Duane Bedell [00:21:30]: And I understand that mainstream institutions are a lot larger than tribal colleges. So it's almost it's it's very difficult to really get to know the student, for who they are and so on. But just be able to find someone to to make that key contact with the native American students, I think it's gonna help with the success rates.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:46]: A lot of mainstream institutions are hiring tribal relations positions or creating indigenous American student centers, as the person who is hopefully working with your students to transfer into those institutions, what are you hoping for from the partnership on the other side?

Duane Bedell [00:22:01]: Just to have a a really good close relationship and an understanding relationship with the student that's transferring in. Again, it's all about meeting that person, and and that's the common theme here. It's just meeting them, as a person and meeting them where they're at. And it and I think that's gonna go a long, long ways.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:16]: What about from administrator to administrator?

Duane Bedell [00:22:19]: From administrator to administrator, just really take the time to learn about the Native American communities that you serve. And the same thing goes for me. I always try to take the time to learn about their institution, about their culture, and most importantly, you know, just to learn about the campus environment and how their institution works as well. I think it's very important for myself to learn as much as I can about the mainstream institutions as mainstream institutions should learn about tribal colleges and tribal students as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:49]: Dwayne, I'm going to go ahead and move us into our theme questions for the season. Again, we've been focusing on the past, present, and future of student affairs in higher education. So I'm gonna ask you 3 questions, 1 each on the past, present, and future. So with the past, what's one component of the history of higher education or student affairs that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively let go of?

Duane Bedell [00:23:11]: I think that we should just carry forward the mission of making sure that your students have the resources to be successful. The student services in general, that's their main goal, is to make sure that their students are comfortable and that their students have their resources to be successful. If that were to go away, I think our students would be lost. So I I think we certainly need to keep that there. In the present, what's happening in the field of student affairs in higher education right now that's going well

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:32]: for us? What's higher education right now that's going well for us? What's really going well for us is that there is more communication across the institutions, that we're learning a

Duane Bedell [00:23:37]: little bit more about each other. But most importantly, the data collection is getting getting a lot better. So we can use the data and actually turn that data to make key decisions on better ways to support our students. And I think all institutions are doing a great job at that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:56]: And looking towards the future, in an ideal world, what does the field need to be doing to thrive towards a future?

Duane Bedell [00:24:02]: I think that in the future that they just really need to find ways to meet the current demands of society. As we know, society shifts and it shifts very quickly. And being able to keep up with those demands and the latest trends will help our student services meet our students where they should meet them.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:20]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:26]: Thanks so much, Jill. Really excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton happening. And there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. I've talked about this before, but one of the great resources that you have available to yourself atnaspa.org is the Leadership Exchange magazine. The Leadership Exchange is a the Leadership Exchange is a magazine that comes out a number of times per year and offers you an opportunity to be able to identify solutions for those of us in Student Affairs Management. Now, if you're not in a manager role, but have an interest in learning more about ways in which individuals think about management in Student Affairs, this resource is available to all NASPA members. One article that came out in the most recent article in the most recent Leadership Exchange, which came out in fall 2024, talks about transforming student affairs professional preparation. In this article, you get a great insight into what is happening currently in student affairs professional programs and what many programs are starting to do to look at preparation in a whole new way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:39]: Whether you have a student affairs professional program on your campus or not, it is a fascinating read, especially for all of us that have gone through professional programs or are in the midst of going through a professional preparation program currently. Highly encourage you to check out that article. As I said, it is a free resource to all NASPA members. So highly encourage you to go and check it out for yourself. One of the other things that I'm going to talk about today is getting involved in NASPA. Each of you have an opportunity to be able to give back to the professional Association that you've been a part of for quite some time. NASPA is always looking for individuals that are willing to give their time and talent to providing insight into knowledge communities, conferences, and more to be able to find out about opportunities that currently exist. It's really easy.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:31]: All you do is go to the NASPA website, click on volunteer. And on that page, you're going to see a number of different ways in which you can volunteer and you can identify ways in which you can get involved. Basically, the easiest way to do that is to log in right through that page. You'll see that you can log into your NASPA profile. When you log in to your NASPA profile, you can then go into volunteer central. And in volunteer central, you'll see any and all opportunities that exist. I will tell you, as someone that's been involved with the knowledge communities for a very long time, there are a ton of opportunities to get involved. So I highly encourage you to find some way to give back to the association, to help the association to be stronger and be able to do what you can to be able to take even more out of your professional association membership.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:29]: Speaking of knowledge communities, if you're not involved in a knowledge community, I highly encourage you to check out all of the different knowledge communities that exist. This is a great time of year to go into your NASPA profile and update your interests. You can go in and you can sign up to be a part of any of the knowledge communities just by going in and updating your preferences. By going in and updating those, you'll start to hear from the different knowledge communities and see what's happening in those knowledge communities. You can also go on to the NASPA website, go under communities, and then click on knowledge communities and see the over 30 knowledge communities that exist. Well, what are knowledge communities? Well, knowledge communities are small communities based on functional areas and identities that allow you to find your place within NASPA. The k the knowledge communities are what we call KCs, serve as content experts and communities of support for you as you are going through your own professional journey. I know that personally, I've been involved with knowledge communities for quite a long time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:35]: There are definitely knowledge communities that I identify with and I pull a lot from because of the work that I do on a daily basis. And I know that you can find that as well. You can be as involved as you want to be, or you can just be collecting the information. But getting involved is the first step. Getting involved in at least being a part of the knowledge community so that you can find out more is the right way to be able to help you to stay connected. So I highly encourage you to take advantage of these knowledge communities. Learn more about them, find out more, and get involved in some way to be able to increase your own ability to know about what's happening on other campuses, but also in the profession as well. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:22]: So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:43]: Chris, we always appreciate you keeping us updated on what's going on in and around NASPA. Appreciate you creating our NASPA world segments each and every week. And Duane, we have now reached our lightning round, and I have 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. Are you ready to rock?

Duane Bedell [00:30:59]: I am. Let's do this.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:01]: Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Duane Bedell [00:31:06]: That's an easy one because I just did this. So astronaut, in the ocean, Metallica, wherever I may roam, and M and M lose yourself.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:14]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Duane Bedell [00:31:17]: I wanted to be a secret service agent.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:19]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Duane Bedell [00:31:22]: The previous president here, Michael Parrish.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:24]: Number 4, your essential higher education read.

Duane Bedell [00:31:28]: Oh, that is tough to narrow. I have so many, and then so many titles are going through my head. I can't answer that. I got too many titles.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:34]: Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Duane Bedell [00:31:37]: Yellowstone.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:38]: Number 6, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Duane Bedell [00:31:42]: I actually haven't taken time to listen to too many podcasts in the in the last year. The last one that I listened to was the one that was featured at University of Michigan Flint.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:49]: That's a a shout out for, doctor Chris Lewis, our producer and audio engineer on this show. He hosts that show. And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Duane Bedell [00:31:59]: You know, I just like to give a shout out to all teachers, all administrators that are out there. You guys are doing a phenomenal job, and then I can't wait to see what our future leaders are gonna look like.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:08]: Dwayne, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show today and to get to learn from your perspective about what it's like to be leading as a college president at a tribal college in 2024. And I'm sure others would like to learn from you as well. So if they would like to reach out to you after we air, how can they find you?

Duane Bedell [00:32:23]: They can find me on LinkedIn LinkedIn just by typing my name in, or they can email me at dapadel, which is bedell@bmcc.edu.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:32]: Duane, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Duane Bedell [00:32:35]: Well, thank you for having me on this podcast. I certainly appreciated it, and I look forward to hearing more podcasts.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:46]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:28]: Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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This week on NASPA's SA Voices from the Field Podcastr Dr. Jill Creighton sits down with Marcus R. Langford, the Associate Vice Provost for the Center for Learner Diversity and Inclusion at Oregon Health and Science University (OHSU). Marcus shares his thoughts on leadership, diversity, and balancing a demanding career with family life.

The Path to Leadership and Diversity at OHSU Marcus R. Langford's journey in higher education began with a personal challenge—an arduous college transition—leading him to become an orientation leader. This pivotal moment guided his career, allowing him to work in various capacities across the country, from Oregon State University to the University of Cincinnati Blue Ash. Currently, at OHSU, Marcus spearheads initiatives to foster diversity, equity, and inclusion.

Throughout this episode, Marcus emphasizes the significance of collaborating with intelligent, talented individuals. He credits his ability to identify patterns, navigate complex systems, and engage effectively with people as critical to his professional evolution from a specialist to a generalist—a valuable skillset for anyone in leadership roles within student affairs.

Doctoral Research: Black Male Engagement and Placemaking Marcus is pursuing a Doctorate of Education (EdD) with his dissertation titled "Making Their Own Way, A Qualitative Case Study of Black Male Engagement and Placemaking at the University of Oregon." His research shines a light on the engagement and sense of belonging of Black male students at predominantly white institutions (PWIs).

Drawing from personal experiences, Marcus highlights the challenges Black students face in these environments. His findings reveal that while Black male students are actively involved across campus, they often find meaningful engagement in culturally relevant spaces like the National Association For Black Journalists and the Black Cultural Center. Unfortunately, these cultural groups sometimes face institutional barriers, such as restrictive catering policies that hinder the authenticity of cultural events.

The Need for Institutional Support and Recognition Marcus's research underscores the need for institutions to recognize and support diverse forms of student engagement. Traditional engagement opportunities, such as student government, are sometimes less appealing to Black male students due to microaggressions and dismissive behaviors. Institutions must reconsider how their policies may inhibit students from expressing their authentic selves and engaging fully.

A practical example Marcus discusses involves the challenges cultural groups face when trying to work with external vendors to provide authentic cultural food. Institutional catering policies often prevent these collaborations, leading to unsatisfactory event experiences that can affect student engagement and sense of belonging.

Updating Theories and Practices in Student Affairs Marcus advocates for a shift away from the overreliance on classical student development theories that may limit students' experiences. He suggests that institutions should expand the scope of what is considered valuable student engagement, integrating culturally relevant activities alongside traditional ones. Additionally, ongoing education for faculty and staff is crucial to understanding the evolving needs of students, which differ significantly from previous generations.

Mentorship and Professional Growth Mentorship plays a vital role in Marcus's career. Larry Roper, a seasoned professional in student affairs, has been instrumental in guiding Marcus, emphasizing the importance of not needing to be the smartest person in the room and the value of continuous learning. Marcus appreciates the influence of younger professionals in challenging historical practices and pushing for necessary changes within the field.

Balancing Professional and Personal Life One of the most profound insights Marcus shares is the importance of distinguishing between professional and personal commitments. He stresses that while he likes his job, he loves his family, and it's essential to prioritize personal relationships. This perspective, influenced by his mentor Larry Roper, reminds us that systems are designed to function without individuals, so self-care and personal well-being should not be neglected.

Conclusion: Moving Forward with Inclusive Practices As Marcus R. Langford continues to lead efforts in diversity and inclusion at OHSU, his insights remind us of the ongoing need for institutions to adapt and support the dynamic needs of their students. By reevaluating policies, expanding engagement opportunities, and providing continuous education for faculty and staff, higher education can create more inclusive and supportive environments for all students.

Stay tuned for more enlightening discussions on "Dads with Daughters," and be sure to catch future episodes where we continue to explore the intersections of personal and professional lives in meaningful ways.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices From the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on essay voices, I am overjoyed to be joined by Marcus R Langford, who is currently serving as associate vice provost for the center for learner and diversity and inclusion at Oregon Health and Science University or OHSU. In this role, Marcus is responsible for providing leadership and vision for the center to advance OHSU's learner centered diversity, equity, and inclusion and belonging goals. This work includes providing educational engagement opportunities for learners, as well as working with institutional partners to envision and achieve a collaborative cohesive approach to the enhanced recruitment and retention of diverse learners. In this role, Marcus is fortunate to work with and provide leadership to a talented team of individuals committed to cultivating relationships, creating educational solutions, and interrogating policies, practices, and procedures in partnership with various institutional partners and constituents to build institutional capacity for transformative change. Prior to his OHSU work, Marcus was at the University of Oregon where he most recently served as dean of students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:23]: Prior to U of O, over the span of 20 years in higher ed, he served in several roles with increasing levels of scope and responsibility at a variety of institutional types. Marcus has professional experience in a variety of functional areas, including academic intervention and advising, campus programming, crisis management, diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging, leadership development, multicultural affairs, orientation and new student programs, student involvement, and veteran student affairs. I also wanna take a moment to pre congratulate Marcus on his future defense of his doctoral dissertation. I'm so excited to welcome Marcus Langford to the show. So good to see you, Marcus.

Marcus R. Langford [00:01:57]: Hey there. How are you? Glad to be here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:59]: So for our listeners, Marcus and I have known each other for a very long time at this point. The very first time we met, Marcus was working at Oregon State in orientation and retention, and I was earning my master's. So we have been kind of at the same institution on and off a couple of times now. And so I'm so excited for our listeners to get to know you through your expertise and your research and and where you sit now. We always like to open our episodes by asking our guests how you got to your current seat and kind of teeing up from that journey out of orientation. How did you land into an AVP of DEIB space?

Marcus R. Langford [00:02:37]: Glad to see you and talk to you again. Always fun to chop it up with you a little bit, and thank you for, giving me this opportunity. So whenever I talk a little bit about how I got somewhere, for me, I always have to start at the beginning. And so for me, starting at the beginning, you know, ensures that I let folks know that I am a Southerner by birth. That's a big part of who I am and how I see the world and how I approach the world. So I was born in Birmingham, Alabama, but I spent the vast majority of my growing up in Cincinnati, Ohio. But even though I spent more time in Cincinnati than in Birmingham, I still would say I'm a Southerner by birth. And so the vast majority of my growing up in Cincinnati, Ohio, and I'm a high school English teacher by training.

Marcus R. Langford [00:03:19]: So my undergraduate degrees are in English Education and African American History. But how I got into the field was kind of typical or classic, and so much as I did not have the greatest transition to college. So much so that about midway through my 1st year, I vividly remember this like it happened yesterday, I called my mom and said, mom, I just don't know if this is for me. I think I want to drop out and come home. And in her infinite wisdom, my mom said, absolutely not. She said, dropping out is not an option. She said, you know, your your dad and I and other folks have invested too much time, energy, and effort into you, and you are more than capable enough to be successful in this endeavor. So she said, do one more thing, join one more club, one more organization.

Marcus R. Langford [00:04:05]: And if that doesn't work, at the end of the year, we can revisit this conversation, but we'll talk about where you will transfer to, not the fact that you're gonna drop out. And so like any good Southern boy, I I did what my mom told me to do. And that one thing that I elected to do was to actually apply to be an orientation leader. And part of the reason why I did that is because even though I had a difficult transition or a rough transition, the one person that I actually was able to make some semblance of a connection with throughout my first the midway through my 1st semester and through my 1st semester was my orientation leader. I still remember her name, Amy Mandler. And so in typical orientation fashion, at the end of my orientation experience, she gave her email, and her phone number and said, if something comes up during the year, give me a call, and I'll see what I can do to help. And so even though I had a, again, a difficult transition, that was the one person who was somewhat of a lifeline for me. And so that one more thing that my mom compelled me to do actually was being an orientation leader.

Marcus R. Langford [00:05:08]: But I still tell folks, even though Amy was a really, really great resource to me, I went into that experience with these nefarious purposes in my mind. Because in my mind, I was a black student at a predominantly white institution. And in my mind, I was gonna be the orientation leader that really kind of kept it real. But as you can imagine, for whatever reason, miraculously, I was selected. And as you can imagine, I had a fantastic experience. My experience as an fantastic experience. My experience as an orientation leader connected me to the institution, connected me to faculty, staff, and even other students in ways that I previously had not been connected. And so that really experience really was a pivotal point in my educational experience.

Marcus R. Langford [00:05:47]: Not only did it change the trajectory of my educational experience as a student, but it ultimately ended up changing the trajectory of my life. So long story short, I ended up graduating and I set up my high school English teacher. So I taught high school English for a little while, but elected to go back to graduate school to get a master's degree. And I went back to Miami University where I did my undergraduate work, I got a master's degree in higher ed. And at that point, transitioned to higher education where I got my first job in orientation and new student programs at Oregon State University. So I spent about 5, almost 6 years at Oregon State working with orientation and new student programs. So summer orientation visit programs, the 1st year experience class before ultimately, transitioning from there to Rhodes College, which is a small private liberal arts college in Memphis, Tennessee. I ended up going to Rhodes to help them build a traditional summer orientation program.

Marcus R. Langford [00:06:45]: So at the time, Rhodes was a small school, and they operated on the methodology that a lot of small schools did where they brought everyone to campus about a week or two before classes started. But what they found was that they were experiencing a high degree of summer melt because their students, all of their friends were going to orientation throughout the summer, coming home with schedules, coming home with IDs, coming home with shirts. And when you're a small institution that has a incoming class of a couple of 100, if you end up losing 5, 10, 20 students, that's a pretty big deal. So at Rose, I was hired to build a summer orientation program. So we backed up their fall orientation to a more traditional 2 day summer orientation program. So I spent some time doing that, but then at a small school, as many folks may know, you end up doing everything. And so that's where I started to get some more experience in academic intervention and crisis work and academic advising before ultimately leaving Rhodes to go back to Ohio where I grew up, to spend time working at the University of Cincinnati Blue Ash, which was a regional college of the University of Cincinnati. And for all intents and purposes, I was the chief student affairs for that regional campus.

Marcus R. Langford [00:07:57]: And so everything student affairs related at some point kind of rolled up to me, and so that was career services, student government, orientation, multicultural affairs, Hispanic and Latino affairs. And so that's really where the breadth of my experience, started to, expand, a little bit, and was there for about six and a half, maybe 7 years before being recruited to come back to Oregon, to work at the University of Oregon. So I spent 7 years at the University of Oregon as an assistant dean, an associate dean, and then ultimately the dean of student. And that's where we came that's where we came back together. So that's where our paths cross stuck in. Spent 7 years there. Had a really, really good and rich experience there before ultimately making the transition to OHSU, which is where I am right now as the associate vice provost for the Center For Learner Diversity and Inclusion. And so I've end this role in Portland for just about 3 months now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:56]: And when we think about your journey in student affairs, I think you have a rich diversity of geographical experience in the field. We see folks kind of do both. Right? Either that are very anchored to one particular region or folks that kind of you and I both have gone have gone all over the country in kind of service of the profession. So I'd love to hear from you on as you've evolved in the past, present, and future of your career, how has that geographical space made a difference or informed the way that you're practicing in the field?

Marcus R. Langford [00:09:24]: That's a very good question, and I'll actually add another layer to that. And so I think my geographical experience has had an effector, and I also would add a layer of institutional type. And so what I would say is when I look back over the balance of my career, I think the fact that I've worked in multiple states and locations and the fact that I've worked at multiple institution types, that has served to strengthen me as a professional. You know, when I think about, you know, my experience at Oregon State University, which was a large land, sea, sun, space, air grant institute spa space, institution. There are skills and things that I had to think about there relative to connecting with students and the mission of the institution that in some ways did, and in some ways did not transfer to my experience at Rhodes College, which was a private, liberal arts focused, 1200 student institution. And so they were yes, there are oftentimes some through lines that exist when we're talking about working with and supporting college students. But some of the things that my students at Rhodes were dealing with were qualitatively different than, you know, some of the things that my students at Oregon State were dealing with or some of my students who, were at a commuter school, like the University of Cincinnati Blue Ash College. And so again, for me, whether it be institution type or geographical in nature, there were just aspects of that that I had to think about differently.

Marcus R. Langford [00:10:53]: And for me, I think that served, to enhance me as a professional. Again, it it it forced me to think about what I did, how I did it, and why I did it in different contexts. And so I had to be adaptable and make adjustments, based on where I was. It wasn't necessarily the ability, again, to pick up how I do what I do and just drop it part for parcel from one place to another. So yeah. So both living in a variety of different places and working at a number of different institutional types, without a doubt, has served to strengthen me as a professional in my perspective.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:28]: You also went from being a specialist in orientation to moving into a more generalist perspective as your career grew and you kind of moved upward in the hierarchies of student affairs. How did you manage to kind of acquire those skills as you went along that really served you from going, okay, I am a person who is implementing this program to now I'm a person designing this program to now I'm a person who has this program plus a couple of others. And then all of a sudden, you're holding all of the cards for a dean of students area. And at the University of Oregon, it's probably one of the larger dean of students areas I've seen at an r one d one. I think a lot of times, modern deans of students offices are really in the core of conduct and care, and maybe there are some other functions. But the University of Oregon has about half of the entire student affairs portfolio in the office of the dean of students. So talk to us a little bit about how you made that transition from your past experiences to the present of holding 13 departments.

Marcus R. Langford [00:12:26]: You're spot on. The dean of students portfolio at Oregon at the University of Oregon was and is rather large, and it was a lift. I I think one of the things that made that doable is the fact that there were some very, very talented folks there doing some good work. And so I was able to lean into the expertise and the experience of folks that surrounded me. But I'll come back to that because I think that's one of the reasons that I can say that I think I was able to serve in that role relatively well. But going back to your original question, yeah, so, again, I started, you know, as a specialist with within the context of orientation and new student programs. And I actually tell folks that of all functional areas, I actually think orientation is a very, very good one that can prepare you to advance. And one of the reasons why I say that is there are actually a couple of reasons.

Marcus R. Langford [00:13:16]: One is orientation is one of those functional areas where and I know you can say this about others, but you have to know a little bit about everything. And so when you think about kind of understanding the ins and out of an institution, and when you think about being able to communicate and needing to communicate the variety of what an institution has to offer to an incoming student to ensure that they can cultivate a pretty solid foundation in order to be successful, that translated to me as a professional. And so, again, as someone who started as an orientation professional, it was incumbent upon me to know a little bit about pretty much every facet of the institution. And so I think that's actually one of the things that I tell folks all the time that was a huge benefit to me starting out in orientation. The other thing associated with the functional area of orientation that I actually think served me well over the course of my career is this notion of being responsible and in a way needing to manage people, places, and things that aren't necessarily yours. And so again, as an orientation professional, it's imperative that, again, you marshal the troops that you don't necessarily supervise. It's important that you kind of manage and coordinate space that you don't necessarily own. It's important that you manage people in terms of how much time they get or not.

Marcus R. Langford [00:14:42]: Because if everybody wants 5 minutes, if you give 5 minutes to 10 people, 15 people, those 5 minutes actually start to stack up. And so you need to be judicious about whether or not folks can get 5 minutes or not. And so I think those are all things that, although it was coming in a, specialist way, they actually prepared me to be a generalist and as I advanced my career. So those are just some of the things that I think in terms of skills that I got from orientation that actually were truly beneficial to me later. But in terms of transitioning from something that I know a lot about and have a lot of experience to starting to collect and be responsible for a widening portfolio. Yeah. That that was a transition. And I I think part of, for me, what allowed me to do that is that I place a priority on listening.

Marcus R. Langford [00:15:37]: And so as I started to accrue some of these areas that I did not have tangible or concrete experience with, I recognized that it was important for me to listen, to the folks who were doing this work. And then I also recognized, in addition to listening, that it was important for me to invest time, energy, and effort to learn as much as I could about these areas. Now I recognized again that I wasn't necessarily going to be a content area expert. That's what those staff were for, but it was imperative that I had a general sense and a general understanding of the work that they did. And so, again, listening and this notion of being willing and or able to be a lifelong learner are things that allowed me to transition, I think, rather seamlessly into this role of being a generalist as I, continue to advance in my career. And I think one of the last things that I'll say is how did I manage this, and this is the part where I'll come back to u of o. One of the best pieces of advice that I got from a former supervisor who's now a mentor of mine is that she often talked about how one of the things that benefited her was this recognition that she needed to divorce herself from this notion that she had to be the smartest person in the room at all times and that she had to have the answer every time right then. And so when I think about my experience at U of O in managing a rather large portfolio, with a lot of functional areas and quite frankly a lot of things that I didn't have a high level of personal knowledge with.

Marcus R. Langford [00:17:13]: Part of that was leaning into that I don't necessarily have to be the smartest person in the room all the time, and so that was really hiring and surrounding myself with smart and talented people and allowing them to do what they were hired to do. Now I will say, I think one of the things that, you know, again, that allowed me to be successful in that is what I mentioned earlier around learning and asking questions, and leaning into their expertise. But I also think I have the ability to see patterns. I have the ability to understand and navigate systems, and I think I also have the ability to work with people. And so for me, those were 3 of the things that allowed me to transition from a specialist to a generalist, and I think be relatively successful in that transition.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:12]: Listening systems and people, those are Marcus's magic 3 for achieving that AVP title. Now, Marcus, you're you're doing all of this while you also had decided to become a PhD student or doctoral student. And I remember sitting with you as you were starting your journey, and I I passed you a post it that said, hashtag doctor Langford 2025 or sooner. And I believe we are on track for that. And so I wanna say huge congratulations to you for getting that first full one through 5 submitted for review. That is an amazing step. I remember the feeling for myself, all of a sudden, a level of guilt just kind of lifted off my shoulders that all of a sudden the free time I would take for myself was not weighted that I wasn't writing or reading at the same time. But I'm I'm really excited to learn more about your research and your findings because I think it fits well with our past, present, and future theme.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:03]: And also really aligns with your journey and your story as a person who was seeking to find belonging in higher education at the start. So why don't you tell us the, at least, tentative title for your dissertation?

Marcus R. Langford [00:19:15]: Well, thank you. Again, I do remember that conversation, and I do remember that post that I just moved into believe it or not, I actually still have it. I just moved into a new office, but I have a bunch of things that folks have given me over the time. And so since I'm still in the new offices and I just moved from Eugene to Portland, it's in a box in my garage with the rest of my office stuff, but I actually do still have that posted in a couple of other things that folks have given me. Yeah. So my doctoral work. So I am in the process of getting a doctorate of education, so an EdD, and the title of my study is Making Their Own Way, A Qualitative Case Study of Black Male Engagement and Placemaking at the University of Oregon. And so I would say, generally speaking, I've always been intrigued by the experiences of Black male students at predominantly white institutions.

Marcus R. Langford [00:20:04]: And I'm very clear in a couple of places in my dissertation of practice that my interest in this is deeply rooted in my own experience as a Black male student at a predominantly white institution. And so my undergraduate and graduate institution, fantastic school in the Midwest when I was there, about 16,000 permanent students, but the institution exists in a town that had, at the time when I was there, about 9,000 permanent residents. When I was there, the number of black students so when you look at 16,000 students, the number of black students that we had never exceeded 500, and I think that's probably being even that is a little bit on the high side. And so, again, I had these material experiences around what it means to be a black male student at a predominantly white institution. And so first and foremost, again, I've always been interested in thinking about the experiences of those folks. And further, I would also say that while I've worked at a number of institutions, I've also worked for a number of predominantly white institutions. And part of my rationale in doing that is because I decided that it was really important for me over the course of my career to do what I can to be for other folks what someone was to me. And so it wasn't an accident when I was looking for jobs, you know, that I ended up settling at Oregon State for a little while.

Marcus R. Langford [00:21:28]: It wasn't an accident that I ended up back at the University of Oregon. It wasn't an accident that even when I went to a small school experience, it was Rose College, which is, even though it was only 1200 students, overwhelmingly white, even though it exists within Memphis, Tennessee, which is a relatively diverse city. And so for me, again, thinking about the experiences of those folks is something that has always been important to me. A little bit more about the the the study. So one of the things that I've, been much very much interested in is this notion of blackmail engagement at predominantly white institutions. And so I talk a little bit about this over the course of my study, but I've always been interested in engagement. So when we think about involvement and engagement within the context of institutions, we clearly know that being involved and being engaged makes a material difference. And so students who are involved, engaged, generally speaking, they tend to graduate at higher rates.

Marcus R. Langford [00:22:26]: They tend to have higher grades. They tend to have a higher level of satisfaction with their collegiate experience. So involvement and engagement matters. But one of the things that I talk about in my literature review is that there has been a fair amount of critique when we think about what involvement and engagement means and looks like. And so when we think about some of the foundational studies that we build our knowledge in higher education on, to put it plainly, that foundational knowledge, generally speaking, is built by white men who've studied younger white men. And while there's not inherently anything wrong with that, I think what these critiques have shown is that as we've built our knowledge on this, that has served to ensure that we don't necessarily recognize and understand the full range of what these things can and should be, and we don't recognize the full range of the experiences that some folks have. And so what even prompted this study was that I would have conversations with some of my colleagues and some executive level administrators, and questions would be asked, why aren't Black male students engaged on campus? Or why aren't Black male students taking advantage of some of these same opportunities that other folks are? Why aren't Black male students kind of involved in student government? Or why aren't Black male students, you know, kind of joining our historically white fraternities? Or things like that. And what I thought then, and what was born out of my study is that while well meaning, that type of perspective flattens the range of ways that black males choose to be involved and engaged on their campuses, and it also ultimately serves to release the institution from their inherent responsibility to be mindful of why folks are making some of the decisions that they're making about where they choose to invest their time, energy, and effort.

Marcus R. Langford [00:24:28]: And so actually what I found is that black male students were involved across, the landscape of the institution, but there are choices that they made about where to invest the majority of their time. And so things like culturally relevant experiences was very important. And so, you know, they talked a lot about things like the National Association For Black Journalists. They talked a lot about the Black Male Alliance. They talked a lot about the Multicultural Center. They talked a lot about the Black Cultural Center. But in addition to those things, we also did have students who did research. We had students who were in IFC fraternities.

Marcus R. Langford [00:25:08]: And so they did do a range of these things. But, again, I think it was really being mindful of the fact that they were making some particular choices based on how they would experience something. And that's actually one of the things that I wanted to bring to the forefront through this study. So I conducted 3 focus groups and a couple of follow-up interviews. And, again, I found that students are engaged across the landscape of the institution. But what they also were looking for was the institution to recognize that through the application of policies, practices, and procedures, that there were ways that the institution could better support the engagement and placemaking, you know, of these students. And so some of the things, again, that institutions don't think about, we talk about policies, practices, and procedures. A very trite well, it sounds like a trite example, but it's really meaningful is if you go to any PWI, one of the things that you typically will find is this back and forth with cultural groups and campus catering.

Marcus R. Langford [00:26:08]: So what will happen and, again, it sounds trite, but walk with me. So what will happen is student groups, cultural groups, will often want to work with outside vendors around cultural food, but then you often have institutional catering and food services saying, well, we can do that. And students will say, well, yeah, you can, but, like, the food is not gonna be that great it's not gonna be that great or authentic or representative or correct or, you know, we wanna support this business in the community, and the waiver will be denied. Catering will do it. And in many instances, the food is not gonna be good because it's not prepared by someone of the culture, and the event will happen, but, like, students are like, well, this food really wasn't that great. And so, again, as an institution, those are the types of things that we don't think about. Typically, some of our institution folks within our institutions don't think about those as, quote, unquote, big deals, but those are the types of experiences that when taken in total really start to create issues where students, again, around have the ability to be engaged and and kind of make place for themselves. Another thing that came up was their decision making around how they would experience an organization or an opportunity.

Marcus R. Langford [00:27:23]: So going back to this notion of, well, why aren't students in student gov these students joining student government, or why aren't these students joining what we would define as these classical engagement opportunities? The students would then say, well, why do I wanna subject myself to an experience where I know I'm gonna have to deal with microaggressions on a daily basis? Like, why do I wanna join this organization where I know folks are gonna say off the wall things to me? Why do I wanna join this organization where when I joined the concert board and I say, we want to bring this person, I'm automatically gonna get shot down because that's not the type of concert or music, you know, that folks want to do. And so students, again, are making decisions about where to invest their time, energy, and effort about how they will experience things. And I think that's another piece that sometimes folks in institutions don't really think about. They don't think about how students will experience these opportunities. And in not thinking about that, it releases them from, again, their inherent obligation to ask some pretty difficult questions of themselves of how are we inhibiting, you know, our students from being their true and full selves through the application of our policies, but then also not addressing what students are telling us about some of the problematic things that they experience. So, yeah, so that's a little bit.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:44]: It's a good reminder that our institutions are always microcosms of the things that are happening in larger society, especially because institutions are designed originally with specific intent on who they were serving, and those vestiges have definitely carried through the present day in in student affairs. And one of the things I most appreciate about the research that you're doing now is I think our master's programs for a good couple of decades now have done a good job of acknowledging who student development theory was written by and for. But it stops there, and it doesn't go the next step of saying, okay, well, now where are we where are we conducting research? Who are the people that are participating in our research? And how are we making sure that those perspectives are more well rounded. And so I appreciate that your study is filling a gap in the literature, but how can we change our systems to be more inclusive of the traditionally aged black male experience? That's not out there as boldly as it should be, especially given where we are in time. And there's also then an opportunity, I think, I'm I'm hearing, like, future publication for you on on how this will get out there. And I appreciate the framing too of saying, you know, the institution is not absolved of its responsibility. And we both have a mentor who has said in the past, you know, institutions are just buildings and people. And so because of that, that means we are empowered to change those institutions.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:02]: Given that and given your research, can you give us maybe 1 or 2 recommendations for practice?

Marcus R. Langford [00:30:08]: Great question. So one, I think I would say it's important that we adequately invest in these organizations and these structures that we design. And so, again, I'll lean into my study participants. And so one of the things that they talked about was, so there is a black cultural center, and there is a multicultural center. But oftentimes, what happens is institutions will have or build these things to say, look, we have this, but what the students talked about is, well, I appreciate that we have this thing, but can we have a conversation about how it's on the edge of campus? Like, what does that mean? Can we have a conversation about how you built this building and there's only one person, you know, who's assigned to manage this building? So can that person get some help? They talked about things like having cultural organizations, but the rules under which they have to follow through student government and all these other things are often very, very difficult because of their relative size. And so, again, I I think one recommendation is to really think about whether or not we as institutions are adequately investing, whether that be human capital or fiscal capital, in these organizations and entities that are designed to support these folks. So I think that's one thing. I think another, recommendation is that I think it's really important to have some sense of ongoing, you know, kind of education and or training for faculty and staff.

Marcus R. Langford [00:31:46]: One of the things that I spent a lot of time talking about in my role as the dean of students is trying to help faculty and staff and administrators, I'll just say administrators, helping administrators and the people who comprise institutions, helping them to understand and reconcile that who you were as a student and the student experience is qualitatively different than who students are right now and what the student experience is right now. So again, one recommendation is some, you know, training or development for these folks to help them understand, again, that who students are and what the student experience is right now is qualitatively different than who they were as students. And so it's really important that we think about whether or not the folks who run these institutions have a keen and clear understanding of what student needs are today. And so some of that can be accomplished through training and development. And then I think the last thing that I would say is so Sean Harper talks about culturally relevant engagement practices. And so, again, I think part of this is ensuring that the experiences and the opportunities that we offer to students are culturally relevant and accessible. And so, again, I think oftentimes we have a canon in terms of, like, what acceptable or good experiences and opportunities are, and so I'm an English major, and so I think it's part of what our responsibility is is to expand the canon of what we see as good and acceptable. And so again, there are many ways that, you know, black male students were and are engaged on campus.

Marcus R. Langford [00:33:30]: And so some of that is around spending time with folks playing Madden, or some of that is, you know, being connected to each other off campus. And so I think it's incumbent upon us as institutions to recognize the inherent value, those types of things as well, and say and not necessarily get to this point of saying that, well, those are automatically less than joining student government, or that's automatically less than joining a fraternity, or whatever it is that we do. So, yeah, so I I I think those are a couple of things that in my mind were good pieces to consider, in terms of future practice.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:06]: Marcus, I'm gonna transition us to our theme questions for the season. So I have 3 questions for you, 1 each on the past, present, and future of student affairs. So we're gonna start in the past, and I'd like to know from you, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively something we should be letting go of?

Marcus R. Langford [00:34:25]: Well, I'll actually lean into what we were just talking about. I think one aspect of our past that I think would help us is loosening our overreliance on some of our classic student development theory. So I think student development theory is important. It can be instructive. But what I've also found, and I even remember my experience as a newer professional, I think sometimes unintentionally, what that allows us to do is to put students in boxes, or it creates a scenario where, yeah, we create kind of parameters that are too restrictive for how we think and why we do what we do. And so one of my things about the past is I think it would be helpful if we weren't necessarily so over reliant on some of our classic student affairs theory. That's probably a bit of, did he really say that? But that's what I think. I'm

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:17]: with you on that one, cosigning that opinion. On the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs?

Marcus R. Langford [00:35:24]: I think one of the things that from my perspective is happening that some people might not see it as a net benefit, but I think we have some younger professionals who are leading the forcing, encouraging, challenging us as a profession to ask some hard yet necessary questions about who we are, why we do what we do, and how we do what we do. To be clear, I thoroughly enjoy the work that I do. I thoroughly enjoyed the work that I did as a dean of students, but I think one of the things that I often say it was, I just tend to be one of those folks who don't say that I love my job. I like it a lot. I have a great affinity for it, but I tend to be a person who I reserve my love for things that can love me back in a tangible and concrete way. So I like my job a lot. I have a high affinity for my job, but I love my wife and I love my kids. And so I think presently, there are younger professionals who are having that mentality, and I think that's really forcing us as an institution to reckon with our reliance on, I'll say it, trying to pay people with and through passion.

Marcus R. Langford [00:36:34]: Like, passion doesn't pay the bills, to be clear. And so I think presently, yeah, there are newer professionals who are asking some questions that are really, really forcing us as a field to contend with some of our historical practices that probably needed to be reconciled with a long time ago.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:54]: I just wanna say for posterity, I quote you on that constantly. I actually said it yesterday to somebody who was really putting in like a 90 to a 100 hour work week. Actually, not even in student affairs. It was in a private industry field. And he said, hey, you know what? I have a friend who has told me a long time ago, I like your job a lot, but don't love your job because your job will never love you back. And that is something that I've taken from your wisdom years years ago, and I I keep that with me. So thank you for that one. And now it'll be out for the pod audience as well.

Marcus R. Langford [00:37:20]: Really quickly, to be clear, you know, I have leaned into that, but that's something that I got from a mentor of mine many, many years ago, Larry Roper.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:28]: Oh, I'm sorry. Of course. It's Larry Roper.

Marcus R. Langford [00:37:30]: Of of course. That's a Larry Roper thing. Again, I I think the the important thing is, again, is this is all about systems. And so that's not to say that a system or an institution doesn't necessarily appreciate you or value you, but I think it's important to understand that there's a reality that the way that Larry put it, we were sitting in the library, and he said, Marcus, what you need to realize is if you and I walk out of this library and fall off the face of the earth tomorrow, the lights will still come on and students will still show up. And part of that is because by nature, systems are designed to persist. And he said that's not to say that we don't do good work, because we do. That's not to say that we wouldn't be missed, because in many ways, we would. But systems by design recalibrate to this point of homeostasis.

Marcus R. Langford [00:38:17]: And so as a result, it's important that you are mindful and intentional to do what you can to take care of yourself because there's no guarantee that a system will. And so, you know, that's just something that I was very, very fortunate to get early on in my career, and it has been instructive for me over my 25 plus years career in this field. And that doesn't mean that I don't work hard. To be clear, you can ask my wife and she can cosign this. That doesn't mean that I haven't failed at that because in my mind, while I think I've done a very good job of maintaining balance in conversations with my wife and even with my kids, I know that there have been times that I've fallen short of that. That said, I think it's something that I've tried to consistently come back to, and I think that trying to get back to it has benefited me greatly over the course of my time in the field.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:08]: I don't know anyone who doesn't love a good Larry Roperism. And if you'd like to learn more from him directly, he was featured on season 1 of our podcast when Corliss was hosting the show. So if you wanna go back and take a listen, I just always appreciate hearing from him. And Marcus, our our final question here on the future is, in an ideal world, what does our field need to be doing to thrive towards our future?

Marcus R. Langford [00:39:30]: I think I would say that it's incumbent upon us to ensure that our policies, practices, and procedures are reflective of who students are now and the needs of students right now. You know, again, we do ourselves a disservice when we frame and operationalize things based on who we were as students and, you know, what brought us joy as students. Yes. I I I think those things can, to a certain extent, inform what you do. And I'll say something here, and it may not be popular. But if you came into the field to replicate your experience for other folks, I would challenge you to think about that. It's not about replicating your experience. It's about creating, supporting, and sustaining conditions so that people can have a rich and meaningful experience, whatever that may mean and look like for them.

Marcus R. Langford [00:40:27]: So for me, again, I think looking ahead into the future, it's important that our policies, practices, and procedures are reflective of who who our students are now and what their needs are now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:40]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:46]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world. There's a lot of things happening in NASPA. The deadline for the 2024 Leadership Educators Institute is coming up soon. The regular registration deadline closes on November 11, 2024. The Leadership Educators Institute is happening December 9th through December 11, 2024. This is a partnership between NASPA, ACPA College Student Educators International, and the National Clearing House for Leadership Programs. LEI provides a unique opportunity for all professional levels within our field to engage in critical dialogue to promote positive, sustainable change on their campuses.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:23]: If you are an individual that wants to connect and learn with other higher education professionals to advance student leadership on your own campuses, then the Leadership Educators Institute is the perfect place for you to go. You'll have the opportunity to explore proven leadership theories and innovative curricula that will help you to develop outstanding leaders on your campus. Just a reminder, the regular registration closes on November 11th, and you can find out more on the NASPA website. The 2024 Women's Leadership Institute is happening December 10th through December 13th in San Diego, California. The Women's Leadership Institute is the premier professional development program for women who aspire to be senior leaders in higher education. The Leadership Institute provides an experience that offers strategies for women to succeed in the higher education profession. Participants include women from facilities and operations, administration, auxiliary services, student affairs, recreation and libraries who share a passion for the profession and plan to lead with lasting impact. At this conference, you'll have an opportunity to come together with a diverse group of professional women to drive collective development, drive collective development, home leadership skills, share experiences about how to continue to provide adequate support for all students in a turbulent national landscape and create new personal networks.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:43]: Don't miss out on the learning and experiences offered at this special event. Find out more on the NASPO website. Also coming up on November 18th, there is a member briefing on translating data into practice, 20 24 NASPA top issues, findings and practical applications on campus. The NASPA 20 24 top issues results provide a snapshot of what senior leaders view as key priorities on campuses this year. This member briefing will provide you with an opportunity to get an overview of the top ranked issues, including centering the student voice, expanding access to mental health and well-being supports, facilitating cross campus collaboration, and more. This on top of examining how these trends shape student support services. A key portion of the presentation will highlight the prevalence of issues related to health, safety, and well-being and holistic student support efforts on campus and how institutions are leveraging NASPA's extensive resources and frameworks to strengthen their response to these issues. We hope you can join us for this session on translating NASPA's research findings into actionable strategies to support student success.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:56]: This is a free briefing that you need to log in to the learning portal atnaspa.org or go to learning.naspa.org directly to find this member briefing. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:45:30]: Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:35]: Chris, we always appreciate you informing us on what's going on in and around NASPA. Thank you so much for another informative NASPA world. And, Marcus, we are now at our lightning round. So I have 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. You ready to do this?

Marcus R. Langford [00:45:50]: Let's do

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:50]: it. Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Marcus R. Langford [00:45:56]: Let's get this party started.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:57]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Marcus R. Langford [00:46:00]: A marine biologist.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:02]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Marcus R. Langford [00:46:05]: Larry Roper.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:06]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Marcus R. Langford [00:46:08]: I'll say the green book. I can't remember the title of it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:11]: We all know the green book. The student service Larry Roper helped write this one.

Marcus R. Langford [00:46:15]: Yes. Yes. Yes. Foundational information.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:18]: Number 5, the best TV show you've binged lately.

Marcus R. Langford [00:46:21]: I just started watching Operation Lioness and Deceptively Good.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:25]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Marcus R. Langford [00:46:28]: A Questlove Supreme.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:29]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Marcus R. Langford [00:46:33]: Personal, I always have to give a shout out to my family. My wife, Mercedes, who loves me in spite of myself. And I also will just wanna give a shout out to the fantastic people that I spent some time working with at Oregon State Oregon State, at the University of Oregon, one of which is Chris Winter. Chris Winter is the person who recruited me to come back to Oregon, and I just thank the world of her.

Marcus R. Langford [00:47:01]: And I'll second, cosign that shout out to Kris. She's somebody who I also have been very grateful to call a mentor in my career.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:01]: Alright, Marcus. We have reached the end of the road for our episode today, and it's been wonderful to hear about your research and your journey. If anyone would like to connect with you after the episode airs, how can they find you?

Marcus R. Langford [00:47:11]: LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram are all Marcus r Linkford.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:16]: Marcus, again, so lovely to reconnect with you, and thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Marcus R. Langford [00:47:21]: Thank you, Jill. It's been a pleasure. Good seeing you and catching up today.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:30]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:08]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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Exploring Institutional Intelligence and Student-Centric Approaches In the latest episode of NASPA's SA Voices From the Field, Dr. Jill Creighton welcomed Dr. Michelle Boettcher, an associate professor at Clemson University, to discuss a range of pertinent topics in higher education. With a rich background spanning nearly 20 years in residence life, various administrative roles, and extensive academic experience, Boettcher brings a wealth of knowledge to the conversation. This episode, delves into the nuances of institutional intelligence, ethical considerations, and the essential focus on student-centric practices in higher education.

Bridging Law and Ethics: The Minimum Baseline Dr. Boettcher emphasizes a crucial distinction between meeting legal standards and upholding higher ethical standards. In one illuminating example, she discusses an accessibility issue where a building at Clemson University housed both office space and an honors residential community on the first floor. Although the building was ADA-compliant, the arrangement limited accessibility accommodations to honors students only. Boettcher argues that this situation, while legally acceptable, raised significant ethical concerns. She underscores that legal frameworks should serve as a foundational baseline, and institutions should strive to go beyond mere compliance to embrace more inclusive and ethical practices.

Unpacking Institutional Intelligence: A Framework for Change One of the key highlights of the episode is the exploration of "institutional intelligence," a framework co-developed by Boettcher and Salinas in their new book Law and Ethics in Academic and Student Affairs Developing an Institutional Intelligence Approach, and is designed to understand campus culture and decision-making comprehensively. This approach integrates three main components: law and ethics, the institutional environment, and decision-making processes. Boettcher elaborates on how this model assists practitioners in navigating institutional culture, underpinning decisions with historical context, and fostering positive institutional change. By employing reporter-like questions—who, what, where, when, why, and how—this method helps gather and analyze vital information, ensuring well-informed decision-making.

The Core of Ethical Practice: Human-Centered Policies Boettcher's commitment to student-centric approaches shines through as she emphasizes the importance of keeping students at the center of all institutional efforts. Drawing inspiration from Ruth Bader Ginsburg's dynamic view of law, she illustrates the need for adaptability and responsiveness in student affairs. Boettcher's approach is grounded in balancing control and care, aiming to build more collaborative and engaging environments for students. She also highlights the increasing recognition of student affairs professionals and their critical role in managing various campus scenarios, from everyday operations to crisis situations.

Practical Applications and Reflective Practices Throughout the conversation, Boettcher stresses the significance of practical applications and reflective practices. Whether it’s onboarding new staff, managing crises, or implementing change, the institutional intelligence framework serves as a guiding tool. Boettcher also touches on the importance of taking time to pause and reflect, referencing mindfulness practices as a metaphor for the long-term benefits of reflection in professional settings.

Merging Law, Ethics, and Practicality This episode of NASPA's SA Voices From the Field underscores the intricate balance between legal obligations and ethical responsibilities in higher education. Dr. Michelle Boettcher's insights remind us that effective student affairs work hinges on understanding and navigating institutional culture, centering student needs, and committing to continuous reflection and improvement. Her practical, human-centered approach offers valuable guidance for educators and institutions aiming to foster more inclusive and ethical academic environments.

Listeners are encouraged to provide feedback, suggest topics, and leave reviews to help SA Voices From the Field continue reaching a wider audience with such impactful discussions.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices From the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on Essay Voices, we're welcoming doctor Michelle l Batcher, sheherhers. Doctor Batcher studies the overlap of student affairs and higher education practice with policy, law, and ethics. She examines how these areas intersect in the areas of career decisions, diversity, equity, inclusion, access, and belonging, popular culture, residence life, the scholarship of teaching and learning, and work environments. After working for nearly 20 years in residence life and student conduct, she's now an associate professor at Clemson University in the student affairs and higher education graduate program. She has a great job, enjoys life as well as work, and is the luckiest person she knows.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:00]: Michelle, welcome to SA Voices.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:01:02]: Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here and have some conversation today.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:06]: And while we are here primarily to talk about your new ish book, which is Law and Ethics in Academic and Student Affairs Developing an Institutional Intelligence Approach, which you coauthored with doctor Christabel Salinas junior, we always wanna start our shows by getting to know our guests. So can you tell us how you landed in your current seat at Clemson?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:01:25]: Absolutely. So I'll go back to undergrad. I was an RA. And when I graduated, I said I would never live in a residence hall again. Then I went to grad school, and I worked in housing for almost 20 years. So just don't say never. I did that, worked different places. My undergrad's Iowa State.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:01:47]: My master's was University of Arkansas. I was at the University of Cincinnati. I took a year and well, first after that I was at Ohio University and then I took a year. Because when you work in housing, you don't always have time to think about, do I wanna stay in this work because you're just busy all the time? And I worked at a public radio station for a year in California, which was very fun. And then decided, yeah, higher ed is my thing. I was at Dartmouth for a semester and then moved back to Iowa, which is where I'm from. Went back to Iowa State for a practice interview and was there for 12 years. So I was there for 5 more years in housing and then right before my current position, I was an assistant dean of students and director of student conduct.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:02:35]: And I love that job. It's not for everybody, but I really enjoyed it. While I was doing that, I finished my PhD and started to look at faculty positions. Got the interview at Clemson and came and just really enjoyed the people, both the faculty and the students. And that's what I do now. I just am finishing up 10 years at Clemson, which is mind boggling to me, but I love it. It's the right job for me. It's a good mix of working on my own and then getting to spend really great time with students.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:03:09]: So, yeah, that's a condensed version of my journey.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:11]: I love that you've gone from that practitioner perspective to that kind of researcher perspective and and scholar practitioner because it really, I think, informs your position in your research about how you're going to be approaching challenges and those intractable problems that we're looking at in higher ed. I know a lot of faculty members have gone straight through that faculty track, and a lot of practitioners have never been in that scholar track. So giving those two perspectives some voice, how does that change how you approach your work?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:03:39]: Oh, I love that question. So I think first and foremost, I'm always looking to partner with practitioners. I'm a faculty member. I will always be a practitioner at heart. And I worry sometimes that as faculty, we can get really excited about questions that may not be as pressing and relevant to practitioners as those questions that we can come up with when we're partnering with them. And I'll sort of reference the book in this too. When Chris and I were working on the book, it was really important to us to have practitioner voices in the text. And so almost every critical scenario, we coauthored with practitioners.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:04:22]: And then there are introductory quotes for the functional area chapters and the same thing. We did bring in some other faculty and academic and administrative leaders, but we really wanted this to be rooted in the day to day doing the work kind of thinking. So I love working with practitioners as co authors or supporting them because the people doing that face to face work with students and with incidents on campus, they're the ones who really know what the most important topics are. I very quickly, to my students, became just a faculty member, but at my core, I'm always, I think, gonna be a student affairs practitioner.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:02]: Leading into the book, how did you decide this was the topic for now?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:05:06]: So I did not set out to write this book. I set out to find this book. I get to teach law and ethics every fall, and it is definitely one of my favorite courses to teach. And I don't know that it's the course every student looks forward to. And my coursework was very much studying case law and understanding how case law and policy inform what we do. And that's important, and that's part of the sort of context section of our textbook. But for me, I wanted, how do you think about it? How do you plan for things? And I also wanted an ethical component. Because while a lot of the decisions we make on a daily basis might have legal implications, it's the ethics.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:05:53]: That's, like, almost every decision we make. There's some sort of ethical piece informing that. So I looked and I just couldn't find the book that I wanted. And Chris and I had worked together on a different book related to hazing. And so I reached out to him and said, hey, I wanna put a proposal together. I know that we write well together. He also had practitioner experiences in areas that I have not worked in. And so I thought we make a pretty good team and he was really good.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:06:25]: But his first question was, are you sure I'm the person you wanna write this with? And because he said, I haven't done that work. I said, oh, but you have. You know, you you make those decisions. And he had the academic, like, advising and and mentoring experience, and I just haven't had that. And so that's where it came from. I was looking for a book for class, and I couldn't find the book that I wanted. And so then I was like, okay. I think at the time it was like, we'll just write it.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:06:56]: Yeah. So that just it's a bigger project than, just, but but that's how it came to be. And like I said, I love the topic, and I'm really interested in it. And I want it to be approachable for people. So that's where it came from.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:08]: I would also consider myself a bit of a case law nerd and definitely a policy nerd. One of the things that I've been doing with NASPA for many terms now is sitting on the public policy division and kind of looking at the lens of what are we doing in terms of policy information for practitioners, and there's the intersection of law and policy. And ethics is an interesting place to introduce that topic for aspiring student affairs practitioners. Why at Clemson and for your class in particular, do you choose to pair those 2 subjects together?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:07:37]: So that predates me. That's how the course was set up. But I once I got into it and was working with it, like, it's never even entered my mind to separate them. Mhmm. Because I think we it kinda comes down to just because it's legal doesn't always mean that that's the answer to the question. And I'll give an example. My last residence hall that I worked in as a hall director, I was in a a brand new building, which is an experience unto itself. And if you're listening and you've had that experience, you know, everybody thinks everything's gonna work on move in day and it doesn't really.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:08:18]: There are tweaks still to come. Well, one of the things in this particular building, the first floor, half of it was office and meeting space and half of it was a residential community. And it was an honors community, which meant if you had needs around accessibility, unless you were an honors student, you could not live on the 1st floor. The building was up to code in terms of ADA and all of that. There were lots of really good spaces, but not on the 1st floor, again, unless you were an honor student. So during that 1st year, we had conversations about, can we move the honors floor? And our honors community was one where students tend to tended to stay for a couple of years, and students were not excited about moving until we were able to work with the honors program and expand the community. So the upper floors were full floors, so it was twice as much space. So that was kind of how we were able to make that change.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:09:19]: And it didn't mean that every student with an accessibility issue chose to live on the 1st floor because we have one student who was living on the 3rd floor, and he liked his community there. He didn't wanna move down to 1st floor. But for me, ethically, to not even have that as an option in the newest building on campus was problematic. So I think our our ethics and our laws, like the legal standard is the lowest standard. It's not what we aspire to. And so for me, that's where ethics come as comes in is how do we do the legal thing as well as we possibly can do it? Does that answer the question?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:58]: Yeah. I think we say the similar thing with policy, which is the policy is the floor, not the ceiling, meaning that the policy is the baseline expectation of how we are fundamentally providing access for someone or how we are looking at equity in other learning opportunities or what we expect from our students from a behavioral perspective. I think you and I both grew up in the conduct perspective. That conduct code isn't telling us what we can do. It's telling us what we can't do, and we see that all over the place. And so thinking about the book that you wanted to create for your class, you and Chris invented a framework called the institutional intelligence approach. And when we think about this season of our podcast theme, the past, present, and future of student affairs, this institutional intelligence approach to me frames the questions we have been asking in the past, examines the challenges of the present, and gives us a framework to look towards institutional decision making in the future. So can you talk to us a little bit about what is institutional intelligence? Do you and Chris have framed it in your work?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:10:58]: And I love the way that you put that in terms of past, present, and future. I'm working with students right now on a project using it around the job search, which is future oriented. But absolutely, it's really, I think, a pretty simple model. And so institutional intelligence is at the center. And it's always in flux because there's change all the time on campuses. So it's never that you reach the now I know everything about my institution. It's a growing, evolving kind of thing. And the model, it's 3 pieces.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:11:35]: So on on one end, you have law and ethics. And I would put policy in there. I would put procedure can be part of that as well. But that's sort of the guide. Those are the guidelines. And then in terms of the law and policy piece, the ethics is how do we enact that. And so those help to set the stage for what's the culture on campus. The other side is the who, what, where, why, when, how questions.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:12:04]: And using those, the way that we talk about them in the book is as you navigate institutional culture, how can you build your awareness or your intelligence about a given campus? It could work for another organization. It could work in another context, but you can go through. So just thinking of who's your supervisor. Right? So who are they? What is your relationship with them? How long have they been on campus? How long have you been on campus? You just can go through the questions to kind of anticipate or reflect or again to your point in the moment when you're dealing with something, who needs to know about this? A student just shared something with me. Who else needs to be informed? What's our process for communicating that? When do I need to make sure other people are aware of this situation? And so it really is and it was not a starting point for the book. It came up as we were talking through other things, and it's like this could really be helpful. And again, coming from housing and conduct where there is a lot of crisis, you can get so overwhelmed with whoever is right in front of you in the moment that you can miss other things. And so this model is meant to sort of give you a moment to think about it.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:13:21]: And that moment may come it might come during the event, but it might come after the event. So you're using it to look back and reflect on what did we do? What would we wanna do differently? How did we communicate with the community about this? And it might be used to look forward in terms of changes that we might wanna make in case this situation comes up again. But I think a lot of people use at least parts of it intuitively. We want to understand the place where we are or the situations that we're in. And so we just put a little more detail to it and a little more formality and structure to what a lot of us do instinctively, I think.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:01]: Let's back up a minute. And can you define institutional intelligence as you and Chris use it in your book?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:14:06]: Yeah. So the idea of institutional intelligence is really being aware of the culture of the place and understanding how does it work. I would say at the core, institutional intelligence is knowing your place in the larger picture. And it's understanding, again, policy history is really important. When I teach law and ethics, I talk about the idea of the random campus policy. Every campus has this weird policy that you've never heard of anywhere else. It's almost always the result of a thing that happened, right? There's a story behind those and sometimes we can get to those stories and other times It's so far gone that the story is lost, but the policy remains So it's about awareness. It's about just understanding how things work in an effort to understand how to make things happen, how to create change, or how to sort of engage in ongoing improvement, things like that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:10]: And when we move into the framework that the 2 of you have developed, you mentioned that you're looking at what I would call the reporter questions. Maybe when we first learned in early schooling years how to interview someone or how to ask a question or how to write an article for something, we're looking at that who, what, where, when, why, how, the 5 w's plus how questions. Tell us about how you arrived at these questions, which are well known in American journalistic culture, but transitioning them into a higher ed context.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:15:39]: It's hard not to think of these questions because, like you said, they're just so embedded. We use them, like you said, in reporting. We use them in writing. We use them in understanding, and everybody kind of knows them. And so I think that was part of the appeal. You know, we weren't looking to make something that was unapproachable because the harder it is to understand, the less utility it has. And so using them in our context, it really is just a little bit of a reframe. In a way, a reporter uses them to gather information for the story, which is their work.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:16:16]: In our thinking, we use them to gather information for student affairs work. So asking who within the context of higher ed. We grouped why, when, and how together because those are a little bit more about action. Why is sort of the bridge. Right? It's the bridge between what's happening, what should happen, and how to make it happen, and when and how is putting it into it being whatever it might be. It could be a policy. It could be a crisis response. It could be a supervision strategy.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:16:53]: But those are more the task things and why bridges between the information gathering and the putting into action. And it's again, the comfort that I think a lot of people have with it just made it very appealing. We found ourselves asking those questions as we were building the book and especially as we were writing the critical scenarios. They just kept coming up and over and over again. And so that was sort of the seed that grew into the model.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:22]: You've already mentioned that you're using this model with your current students in the job search in terms of application. You've put some examples in the book around kind of deconstructing university responses to freedom of expression components. How would you envision a practitioner taking this model and applying it to their work? And when does that happen? And what do you hope the outcomes will be?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:17:42]: So I'm a big fan of the model. I think that there is utility for it in so many different ways. The first thing that comes to mind for me is onboarding. Helping someone understand and I would say this doesn't have to be a person new to an institution, but particularly in that case, it could be really helpful. But it could be I'm moving to a new functional area on the same campus. It could be I'm getting a new supervisor. There are lots of different ways, but it is a great tool for adaptation and acclimation. So navigating change or planning to navigate change for implementation as we're doing this and as we're going through whatever the process might be.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:18:28]: I tend toward crisis just because my work experience involve that a lot, but it could be rolling out a new mission statement. Who do we want involved? Who should have input? How do we wanna build the process to move forward? When do we wanna do this? When does it make sense? I also think a really valuable and I would say based on my own experience. So this is, anecdotal, not research driven. But where we miss the opportunity to learn the most is in that reflective stage. We're so busy and there are so many things happening all the time. We don't always carve out time to reflect after. And again, it could be after a crisis, but it could be after, say, you're moving to a cluster higher model in your area. Reflecting on what worked, what didn't, who's involved in that reflection, when do we do it? Do you do it right away? Do you wait 6 months? Do you do it more than once? So I think it works in really the big aspects.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:19:34]: So the creation, ideation, visualization stages of things. It works in supervision, group dynamics, team development sorts of things, and it works in looking ahead and planning, anticipating. It's just an easy model that has pieces that fit into all of the different sorts of activities and conversations and planning that we do and beyond higher ed. But I'm focused on higher ed because that's where I wanna be.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:07]: In the book, there is a table that I like called the ultimate cheat sheet for critical thinking using this model. And so we've talked about kind of the big buckets of the who, what, where, when, why, how. But what I like about the cheat sheet is that it breaks down into more specific subquestions that could be used. I'm just gonna share some of them with our listeners. So if you wanna go pick up the book, you can kind of understand a little bit more about what these buckets might represent in practice. So in the who or whom question, you might ask, who made a decision or decided about the situation, or has anyone else faced the situation? In the what bucket, we might have what are the strengths and weaknesses of those who were involved or effective, or what's another perspective or alternative to the situation in the way that it was managed. In the where, we're looking at things like where's the most need for a specific resource or support in the situation, or, where can we get more information is a is a great question we should always be asking. In the when we have, when did it occur, when's the best time to act? And That's a great reflection question for practitioners who are looking to implement change or even make a response to something that could have been a crisis on your campus.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:15]: In the why, we have why is this situation a problem or a challenge? And I don't think we stopped to ask that question a lot. The why is this happening, why now? Because as responders in student affairs, we're often looking at, okay, what should we be doing? And I think the impetus for the why question can help us actually solve the problem because we might be getting to the root a little differently. And then finally, in the how bucket, how will we approach this situation safely? How does this response or decision harm us or others? So I think it just gives us a nice framing of, hey, let's pause. And one thing we don't do in student affairs a lot is pause. Yeah. So thank you for giving us some of those questions that I think you're right. We're already doing, but we don't necessarily put in one place.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:21:58]: And the idea of the pause, I'm so glad that you brought that up. There's a story that I like about this man and he goes to a teacher and asks, I'm really busy, but I know I need to meditate. How long do I need to meditate? And the teacher says, about an hour every day. And the man says, I don't have that kind of time. I can't do it for an hour every day. And the teacher says, okay. Then 2 hours a day. And I think about that in terms of what you were just sharing because that pause, it does take away time in the moment, but the time that it saves down the road and the clarity that it can bring, it's an investment forward.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:22:37]: And, yeah, it takes some time in the moment. But if you don't reflect, you end up doing the same things over and over again that may or may not be in the best interest, not only of the students involved or the faculty or staff involved, but in terms of your own team and your own I don't wanna say productivity, but your own rootedness in the work. Because more committed and energized and understanding ways instead of that's just the way that it is.

Lora Phelps [00:23:13]: What are the other major takeaways that you're hoping readers of the book will keep with them?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:23:18]: So I will share that one of the things and Chris and I definitely wanna acknowledge doctors Mimi Benjamin and Jody Joseph Banger who worked with us and supported us through the development and the submission of the book. One of the things for me is I use humor a lot, and I use it in my teaching. And I wanted this to be as enjoyable as this kind of a book can be. So there is some humor in there. Chris came up with this great concept of the onion. And to understand what issues are, you have to get to the core of the onion and an onion is layered. And I think we even have in there sometimes it will make you cry a little bit. But we tried to use examples like that.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:24:05]: You know, we use real life examples. And again, the partnering with practitioners was really important to us. But there are ways to make scholarship approachable and enjoyable. And there are also scholars who write and use language that creates barriers and hierarchy. And we did not wanna do that. We really wanted this in the hands of practitioners, people using it in classes, and providing students a way of engaging with what can be really challenging. The issues that our students and our higher education communities are facing are heavy, and they're challenging. And there can be joy, and there can be laughter in the work as well.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:24:48]: So I think that's one of the things I'm most proud about. Again, thanks to Mimi and Jody. There were a few things in there that they're like, yeah. It's funny, but I don't think you really want this in the book. And I would then go to Chris and say, it is funny. And he would say, yeah, but I think they're right. So it's, I think, an appropriate amount of humor. But I do think that in the end, we're human beings, and we're navigating our lives and building our stories.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:25:15]: And for me, humor and love go hand in hand. And so that's part of what underscores the book is I hope that people receive it as a book of care, not as a directions or I don't want it to be rigid because policy is really not rigid. It can look that way on paper, but when it comes to implementation and meaning making, it is more malleable. And if we don't bring care, we can shape it in ways that do harm rather than in ways that ultimately it should be something that supports healthy communities and places where people can thrive and grow.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:56]: Michelle, we're gonna transition into our theme questions for the season. So first, I'm going to talk to you about the past, which is what's one component of the history of student affairs that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively let go of?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:26:11]: So I would say something that we should carry forward is centering students. And I say that because while I think for the most part we do that, where we are right now, and one of my go to people or one of the people I admire very, very much is justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. And she talked about law as a pendulum. And it's not static. It's always in motion. And sometimes it's a little more where we want it to be, and sometimes it's a little more where we would rather it not be. And there are people at either ends of that. And so we're all comfortable at times, and we're all uncomfortable at times.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:26:55]: And so I say centering students moving forward because we are in, I feel like right now, a place where I worry that we are being pushed to center law, policy, and politics rather than centering students. And this is not the first time we've been here. I know it for me, it can feel very scary at times. But if you look back over the history of higher education, this is common and it's where the pendulum is in the moment. I want us to carry that forward and I don't really have a fear that we won't. I think the people who are drawn to this work are drawn to this work because of the experiences they had, the experiences they didn't have, and what they want to create for other people as they're going through their higher ed experiences. So we can get pressured or it can get easy to get caught up in other things. But in student affairs, if at some point in whatever our process is, we're asking, is this what's best for students? I think we're gonna be okay.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:28:01]: And sometimes we have to compromise on that a little bit because things we don't always get to be the boss of all the decisions. But that's something that I would say, while it originally probably started over controlling students, the way that this work has emerged has really been about caring for students more than controlling. But again, we go back and forth on this and but that's something I would really like for us to hold on to. And I'm happy and proud to say I know lots of people who are doing exactly that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:31]: Moving into the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:28:35]: I think that student affairs is I don't know if rising in prestige is the right way to say it, but I think because of different things that have happened and are happening, I think people understand we need student affairs because a lot of times college presidents, particularly at 4 year institutions, come from the faculty route or more and more they're coming from a business route. And while those leaders bring certain strengths, they don't bring the strengths of dealing with student behavior. And stop it is generally not gonna work with students. And so I think that the role of divisions of student affairs and the functional areas that are really student facing, I think people are understanding we need people with that kind of expertise to navigate not just when things go poorly, but when things go well. We need to understand and I'll use just because it just happened when the Vanderbilt football victory. They're walking the goalpost 3 miles to the river. Well, sure, there's law enforcement involved with that. There's policy and things like that.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:29:57]: But in terms of communicating to students and balancing the celebration with the responsibility, we're the ones who know how to do that. I worked for a vice president at one point and his philosophy was we do the things other people don't wanna do. Well, I think that's true to an extent. I think now people are understanding we do the things other people can't do. And so it's faculty matter, administrators and leaders matter, but student affairs people, they're the ones who really are dealing with some of those really big issues, whether it's the recent hurricanes on campus or celebrations or whatever it might be. So and I can be naive, and maybe that's not exactly true. But I see more examples of consultation rather than direction from the top down in terms of working with student affairs practitioners.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:51]: And looking towards the future in an ideal world, what does the field need to do to thrive towards our future?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:30:57]: We have got to tell the story of what we do And whether that's assessment, whether that is more practitioners in public media, there's the joke of you can't really explain what student affairs is. That's true. It's a weird kind of thing that most people don't understand, but you can tell the stories of specific things that we have done and the way that we make a difference. And we do that in partnership with students, but any chance that someone has to share information about what we're doing and the difference that we make, that's just gotta continue. And I'm I'm a storyteller at heart, so there are lots of different ways to do that. Could be being on a podcast. It could be writing for a publication. It's great to do things at conferences.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:31:46]: It's important to do that. And could you do something like that for your city council? Could you do something like that for maybe even local schools talking about transition. And we do that in the practice of the function of our work. But the more that we can get out and tell the stories of how we make a difference. And it's not just about preserving roles on campus, but it's really about letting families and students and communities know about the resources that we have. It always hurts to find out a student has been struggling for weeks or months when we have the people, the places and the things that could have helped them through whatever it is they're navigating. But that storytelling, I just can't stress it enough. It's really essential and we've all got the stories.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:32:36]: We don't have to come up with things. We all carry those with us every day.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:40]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:46]: Thanks so much, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. The 2024 Leadership Educators Institute is happening December 9th through December 11th in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. This is a partnership between NASPA, ACPA College Student Educators International, and the National Clearing House for Leadership Programs. LEI provides a unique opportunity for all professional levels within our field to engage in critical dialogue to promote positive, sustainable change on their campuses. We all know that leadership is an integral competency for our profession. The leadership development of students is an important and ongoing process that requires commitment from both students and staff. Student affairs professionals and other university administrators play an essential role in coordinating, shaping and evaluating the leadership development of students by designing leadership courses and programs, creating co curricular opportunities and utilizing emerging technologies.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:47]: The Leadership Educators Institute has a rich history of convening professionals committed to leadership development for nearly 17 years. This Institute creates a space for student affairs administrators, scholars, and practitioners to discuss and advance current leadership topics. As mentioned, the conference is from December 9th through December 11th in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Registration is still open with regular registration deadline coming on November 11th. Get more information on the NASPA website. The 2024 Women's Leadership Institute is coming up also in December, December 10th through 13th in San Diego, California. The Women's Leadership Institute is the premier professional development program for women who aspire to be senior leaders in higher education. The Women's Leadership Institute provides an experience that offers strategies for women to succeed in the higher education profession.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:35]: Participants include women from facilities and operations, administration, auxiliary services, student affairs, recreation, and libraries who share a passion for the profession and plan to lead with lasting impact. You can be a part of a special program for women seeking to become leaders in higher education administration and student affairs. This institute is co produced by several higher education associations and is a unique program that will bring together administrators from across campus functions to help you hone your leadership skills for working in a rapidly changing environment, develop a better understanding of the campus as a workplace and culture, share experiences with others about how campuses are adapting and adjusting to the new reality and create new personal networks and networking skills to better tap the higher education community. Registration is still open and you can find out more on the NASPA website. The 2024 Red Ribbon Week Campus Video PSA Contest is currently open. This annual contest aims to promote the importance of living a drug free lifestyle. Just recently, NASPA announced that through the campus drug prevention dot gov website, your campus can submit a campus video PSA to promote the importance of preventing illicit drug use and legal drug misuse among college students. If your campus wishes to do this, you would create a 30 to 60 second video PSA showcasing your campus' commitment to a healthy drug free lifestyle.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:05]: You can submit your entries until November 4th and there's some great prizes for the winners, including a first prize of $5,000 to to support the winning campuses, the winning campuses efforts to prevent drug misuse among their students and a recognition plaque. Beyond this, it's a great opportunity to be able to bring your whole campus community together for a common goal. Find out more at campus drugprevention dot gov. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways, because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:27]: Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:55]: Chris, thank you again for all of the work that you do to keep us informed on what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Michelle, we have reached our lightning round. So I have 7 questions for you. 90 seconds. Ready to rock?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:38:08]: I'm ready.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:08]: Okay. Number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:38:13]: It would be I don't know that this puts me in a positive light, but I love Apex Predator from the Mean Girls soundtrack. So I would go with that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:22]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:38:26]: A writer.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:26]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:38:29]: Frank Robinson.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:30]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:38:32]: Oh, well, my book.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:35]: Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:38:38]: I am watching right now the Gotham series, which I haven't decided if I like it or not, but I love Batman. So that's what I'm watching.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:47]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:38:51]: Criminal.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:51]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:38:55]: Yes. Absolutely. Shout out to Chris Salinas. Thank you for everything. And to my partner, Leslie, who endured the process of me writing the book as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:05]: Like a second dissertation all over again. Exactly. Well, Michelle, it's been wonderful to get to know you today and learn more about your and Chris's work on institutional intelligence. If anyone would like to follow-up with you after the show, how can they find you?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:39:17]: Yeah. So the best way to reach me is through email. I my email is my to do list, and I'm very good at keeping up with that. That's m as in Michelle, and then the first part of my last name, boettc@clemson.edu

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:35]: dotedu. Michelle, thank you so much for sharing your voice and your institutional intelligence with us today.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:39:42]: Jill, thank you for the invitation. This has really been a pleasure, and you have a great demeanor. You made this very easy and very pleasant, and all the best moving forward. But thank you again for your time.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:57]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:39]: Special thanks to the University of Michigan- Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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In the latest episode of NASPA's SA Voices From the Field, Dr. Jill Creighton sits down with Mike Segawa, an esteemed student affairs professional with over 40 years of experience, to delve into the evolving landscape of student affairs. Mike shares his invaluable insights on the importance of storytelling, professional development, and the challenges facing the profession today.

The Power of Storytelling in Higher Education Storytelling holds a unique place in academia, especially within student affairs. Mike Segawa underscores the value of storytelling not just for engaging students but also for communicating effectively with cabinet members, board members, alumni, and presidents. Particularly in the Pacific Northwest and among indigenous populations, storytelling is a revered cultural tradition. It serves as an entertaining and less threatening way to convey significant impacts and digest information. Through stories, professionals can humanize data and present compelling narratives that illustrate the importance of their work.

Grad Prep Programs: A Traditional Path with Modern Challenges Mike reflects on the traditional career trajectory in student affairs, from resident advisor (RA) to vice president. However, he acknowledges that this path is becoming less common, as many professionals now enter the field from diverse backgrounds. Mike's own graduate program was extensive, covering legal issues, counseling, diversity, and history. Today’s programs, constrained by shorter durations, struggle to fully prepare students for the complexities of modern student affairs roles. This gap necessitates enhanced and ongoing professional development.

Professional Development: Beyond Conferences Practical training such as graduate assistantships (GAships), internships, and practicum experiences are crucial but vary greatly in quality. According to Mike, professional development should extend beyond national conferences. Local and regional opportunities, as well as diverse and structured activities, are vital for continuous growth. Mike stresses the need for purposeful professional development plans that are aligned with individual career aspirations and institutional goals.

Sustaining a Career in Student Affairs: Combatting Burnout The discussion also touches on the increasing burnout among student affairs professionals, exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic. Dr. Jill Creighton notes that the complexity of roles has grown, encompassing more legal and regulatory challenges. Mike advises maintaining strong personal relationships and taking regular vacations as essential strategies for resilience. He emphasizes that supervisors must model this behavior to set the right expectations for work-life balance within their teams.

The Dual-Edged Sword of Technology Technology has fundamentally changed how students interact with each other and with institutions. While beneficial, it also presents challenges, particularly through social media, which can sometimes cause harm. Mike highlights the importance of ensuring a balanced and positive experience for students, fostering both intellectual development and joy during their collegiate years.

Looking Ahead: Advocacy and Equity Mike Segawa advocates for a proactive approach in engaging with public entities like legislators and civic leaders. By sharing data-driven stories, student affairs professionals can better demonstrate their contributions to education and gain support. He also discusses the ongoing challenge of promoting diversity and inclusion, noting the need to constantly justify these efforts in an increasingly scrutinized public and political environment.

The Enduring Impact of Student Affairs Mike Segawa's insights highlight the critical role of storytelling, the necessity of comprehensive professional development, and the enduring challenges faced by student affairs professionals. His advice and reflections serve as a guiding light for current and future practitioners, emphasizing the importance of balancing work and life, leveraging technology wisely, and advocating for equity and inclusion in higher education.

For more insights and to hear the full conversation, tune into NASPA's SA Voices From the Field, where we explore the multifaceted world of student affairs and the voices shaping its future.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices From the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on SA voices, we are honored to welcome Mike Segawa. Mike served as an SSAO for over 16 years at the University of Puget Sound, Pitzer College, and the Evergreen State College. During those times, his staff was responsible for a variety of student services offices, including dean of students, counseling and health, housing and res life, career services, student activities, multicultural support services, Greek life, orientation, outdoor programs, student conduct, access services, and recreation and athletics. The majority of his 40 year career was spent in residence life at Evergreen, the University of Washington, and then Central Missouri State University. And while Warrensburg, Missouri was not his favorite place to live, he did meet his wife of 42 years there when both he and Mary were on the residence life staff there.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:11]: Mike has served many of our professional associations, including NASPA, ACPA, and Akuhoai. While with NASPA, he served in a variety of roles, including president, regional vice president, conference chair for Chicago in 2001, and the Orlando joint conference with ACPA in 2007, and 10 years on the national board of directors. His most enjoyable role, though, was as the coordinator of the SERVE Academy. He's also been the host for the Small College and University Institute, a number of SSAO institutes, and the region 5 SSAO retreat. He proudly served for 12 years on the region 5 advisory board. Mike has been honored with the 2022 distinguished pillar of the profession award, the Henry g outstanding mentoring award from the APIKC, the 2007 pillar of the profession, the Doris Machi Coaching breaking the glass ceiling award, and the region 5 Turner award. Now fully engaged in active retirement life, he continues to enjoy his fanaticism for the Seattle Mariners baseball team, fantasy baseball, running, traveling with his wife, Mary, spending time with their 2 kids and their families who live in Seattle and Virginia, and reading The Chronicle of Higher Education for purely entertainment. Mike, we're so glad to have you on SA Voices.

Mike Segawa [00:02:21]: Jill, thank you. I'm looking forward to this.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:23]: And Mike, you and I have been connecting at annual conference for, I think, probably several years at this point. You're a pillar of that, the AAPI community for NASPA, but also a distinguished pillar of the profession. And you've just had just an illustrious and very complex career. So I'm looking forward to talking to you today about the longevity of being a student affairs professional and kinda what you've seen. And normally, we start our episodes off by asking our guests how you got to your current seat, and your current seat is retired life. So without kind of going too deep back into the bio a little bit, can you tell us about your journey through the profession?

Mike Segawa [00:03:02]: Oh, it was 40 years, Jill, and it never felt like it. I loved every step of the journey. And, actually, you know, a lot of folks, especially when I was a senior student affairs officer, asked what was your favorite job? And they assumed it was being a vice president. And instead, I went the opposite direction. I said, actually, my favorite job was being an RA. And yeah. Absolutely. I've said that in front of RAs.

Mike Segawa [00:03:24]: Every time I greeted them for training, I've said it in front of parents and students. Being an RA was the best job I ever had. So started there, but I loved every job that I had after that, whether it was as a hall director or director of housing or vice president or whatever. I loved every job, so it was a wonderful 40 year career. But I knew it was time to leave when, staff would come to me and said, we need a new strategic plan. And I said, yeah. You're right. I don't wanna do that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:54]: Sounds like a lot of work. Right?

Mike Segawa [00:03:55]: Yeah.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:56]: So it it sounds like what drove you into student affairs is that kind of semi traditional RA path. What sparked joy for you as an RA that made you wanna launch into the career?

Mike Segawa [00:04:08]: It was the basis of my happiness throughout my whole career, and that was the individual students. You know, as we get deeper into the career and you move up the ladder, the chance for contact with individual students gets harder to do, but I always manage to find ways to do it. And when I think back to my RA years, you know, when I needed a study break, all I had to do was walk outside my room and walk down the hallway, and there were always gonna be residents there that I could talk with and just find time to have fun with. Got harder when you became a vice president or dean of students. You know, this when you would walk up to a student, they go, did I do something wrong? But that was it. It was that individual student contact that, even to this day, is the joy of the work. Because every few months or even actually more than few months during a month, on a monthly basis, I'll have some former student reach out or some former staff member reach out, and we'll have a conversation whether by email or phone or text or whatever. And frankly, those are the highlights of the week, man.

Mike Segawa [00:05:11]: They still are, even now being retired for about 3 years.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:14]: MEWI recently won a mentorship award, the Henry G, mentorship award through the APIKC. And so I think that really speaks to your willingness to give to professionals even though you're no longer on a college campus day to day.

Mike Segawa [00:05:27]: Yeah. And, you know, the mentorship piece is a fascinating dynamic to me because stereotypically, people see that almost as a one way street that the mentor is providing support service to the mentee. But actually, especially when I was practicing, I got more out of that interaction than I felt the mentee was getting. Because I was still learning so much about what was going on in the lives of our students or our staff members or employees or whomever that, gave me an insight that when you're especially sitting in what I call the big chair, people don't necessarily volunteer that to you. And so having those opportunities to engage colleagues in that way was very much a two way street.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:10]: I'll give a shout out to another NASPA pillar, Doctor. Mary Jo Gonzales, who's a a mentor of mine as well. And she would talk often about, you know, needing to find truth tellers when you're sitting in the big chair, and being able to, have those around you who who you can trust to tell you the truth even if the truth is hard.

Mike Segawa [00:06:28]: Yeah. And, you know, and the truth can be hard, and it can be hard to hear it sometimes. You know, and some of us are better at that than others. And so that's something I think that requires usually practice.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:39]: So let's pop back to that RA space for just a minute because you came into the student affairs profession at a time when the literature, especially around student development, was still pretty focused on a particular population. And so I'm just gonna name that. We know most of our original student development theory work was focused on white cisgendered men. And so we know that the literature has evolved since then. But knowing what you were getting into in the state of the field at the time, what do you see as things that were important for you as a as a learning space? And what did you see as things where you were still filling in the gaps of your own knowledge and how you were working with students?

Mike Segawa [00:07:17]: As folks could see from my bio, I did my undergraduate work at UC Irvine, and that was way back in 1975 to 79. One of my first supervisors as an RA was an Asian American woman. Little did I know how unique and rare that would be for me in my career to have an Asian American woman be a supervisor. However, it was so important. What I learned from her by watching her, by having her as a role model, conversations and all that, that was hugely important to me as I reflect, you know, on the whole arc of my career. And so it it was just reinforcement for the importance of having a diverse workforce, including in student affairs, and that we're still a ways away from it. So that was hugely important to me, who I was working with, who my supervisors were. And I had the advantage that throughout my career, I had folks from diverse backgrounds who were supervisors.

Mike Segawa [00:08:13]: But again, at the time, I didn't really appreciate it. They were just my supervisor. They were Rob. They were Charlene. They were Jim. They were the folks that yes. They're my supervisor. But their identities, in their own ways, they role modeled how to do that really well.

Mike Segawa [00:08:29]: And you know, I think the common denominator for those that I most enjoyed working with in that role was their own self of sense of self confidence and self worth. And so that's something that I didn't fully appreciate at the time. And I think as we're on the journey, you may not fully appreciate the presence of some of those folks in your career. They could be supervisors. They could be peers. They could be students that you're working with who are student leaders. But surrounding yourself with folks who are different from you in so many ways really enriches the career, makes it more fun, but also enhances your skill set in a way that the research can't do, the books can't do, the lectures can't do. It's only in that interaction personally, 1 on 1 especially over an extended period, that I think you get the most advantage of having diverse voices around you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:17]: And in thinking about how diversity has evolved and DEIB has changed from when you entered the field to now, can you help us understand how that evolution felt as you were moving through it? Because we can look at it from a retrospective and say, yes, we're in a different place now, but we also know that happens incrementally.

Mike Segawa [00:09:35]: Yeah. We are at a different place now. Maybe I'll start there because the place we are now, literally today, honestly, I think is so much harder than where we were 40 years ago when I first started the work. The challenges that we are facing in the way of social justice and equity, especially external to the academy, is not some place I anticipated us having to go. And I've talked with a lot of my colleagues who are still in the field, especially senior officers, and I shared with them that I never imagined 10 or 20 years ago that we would have to be engaged in these kinds of conversations, justifying what I would consider to be some of the pillars of our profession, some of the core tenants of our profession, the things that almost all of us grew up with, believing in strongly and still believe in, that we would have to justify it in the ways that I am seeing, especially at some of our flagship institutions that are just more visible to the public and to politicians and to other folks. So I'll start there. Like I said, that I think today's work in the way of social justice and equity inclusion is harder than it was 40 years ago. But the evolution of it on so many levels is gratifying.

Mike Segawa [00:10:43]: We're talking about things now that are so much further ahead of where we were 40 years ago. 40 years ago, it was very much a representation issue. It was a numbers issue that we saw or the lack thereof. Especially in student affairs, I'm proud of the job that we've done in terms of diversifying our own workforce, but we still have a ways to go with that. Whether it's with indigenous populations or Asian American, Asian populations, Southeast Asian populations, Hispanic, Latino, Latinx. We've got a ways to go still with that. But it's gratifying to see that we're beyond simply needing to get numbers in the door. And I think we've become, inside the the academy and especially student affairs, we've become better sophisticated about the students that we're dealing with and each other as peers and colleagues.

Mike Segawa [00:11:34]: So that's progress. But we're being challenged now in a way, like I said, I didn't see this coming. And it's really frustrating to me that that's now a critical part of the work. Because having to do that kind of work that many of you are doing in defending the work means that's a diversion from being able to deliver day to day service to students or to our institutions. Like I said, it's a frustrating dynamic for me to watch.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:56]: Do you have any advice for those of us that are in those weeds?

Mike Segawa [00:12:00]: Well, with student affairs and actually with higher education in general, we generally don't get to shape the agenda socially, even when it has to do with us in terms of higher education and our students. So we do have to be reactive to it. And in this case, I don't see this dynamic going away where having to justify the work around equity and inclusion. It's gonna be on our radar screen, and it's gonna be foisted upon us as an agenda item for a while. So it's not gonna do us any good to try and avoid it or to downplay it or to pooh pooh it or to just dismiss it as these are people who just don't know or understand or their motives are not pure in why they're challenging it. So having said that, I think that we in student affairs and especially some of our senior officers and our equity inclusion officers, we're gonna have to get more comfortable and more engaged in what I call the public square conversations. We're gonna have to be engaged in those conversations outside of the academy, outside of our ivy covered walls, and engage it and bring our perspective and data assessment to it to inform the conversation. And we're not always gonna be successful with that, and it's not always gonna be heard.

Mike Segawa [00:13:17]: But we need to have the opportunity to at least put it out there, like I said, in the public square. And we're not used to that. You know, our graduate programs don't teach us or train us for that. Our professional training doesn't do that. I don't know that we've seen very many, if any, programs at NASPA or ACP or anywhere else on this kind of thing. But we're gonna need to engage our publics in a way that we have not had to do historically around here. I think we can do it. I know we can do it.

Mike Segawa [00:13:43]: But this is a different direction that we're gonna have to go, because I think we need to be more assertive about sharing who we are, what we do, and what it accomplishes on behalf of our students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:56]: I think that's true both in and outside of the academy. One of the things I've always talked about in senior leadership roles is how student affairs tells its story to the rest of the campus community and the stakeholders. Because I think a lot of student affairs professionals, and I've felt this way in my career as well, kind of always feel like the underdog a little bit that we're constantly scrapping to prove that we are deserving of resources or time, energy, what have you. And then we have on the other side, these beautiful student stories of students who would not have persisted without the student services that are coming out through student affairs, whether that be things like camp programs or student involvement or TRIO or I can go on and on and on about the list of whatever that might look like. But we also don't do a good job of telling that story even to our academic affairs partners sometimes. So it's wise advice that you're sharing.

Mike Segawa [00:14:46]: Joe, what you just said is another one of my hopes for us as a profession, and that is we do become better storytellers, which means we're not lecturing people. We're not preaching to people. We're sharing the stories, especially of our students. And a lot of times, we let the student voices sing that out. That's absolutely perfect and most effective. But we will be in places that our students will not be. And so being able to tell those stories of our students. And I remember many times saying to my staff, I need these stories in my hip pockets.

Mike Segawa [00:15:17]: Because as a senior officer, I wasn't always privy to those stories. But my director of student activities was, my director of orientation was, my resident directors were. So I was always searching for those stories that I could use, whether it was with cabinet members, board members, alumni. Because during most of my time, I was focused inwardly on those stories to within the academy. I didn't have to talk very much with legislators and folks outside the academy as I was just talking about, but I still needed those stories. And I needed those stories to pass on to my president because I wanted my president to have those stories in his or her hip pocket to be able to pull out. So storytelling has a proud tradition in so many of our cultures, you know. And especially for someone like me being in the Pacific Northwest, our indigenous populations have the most wonderful stories and develop the most wonderful art around those stories.

Mike Segawa [00:16:13]: So, yeah, it is hugely critical, but storytelling is a much more fun way to convey how we have impact and is an easier way for folks to digest what we are saying and what we're trying to convey. And I think it's less threatening, and it's more entertaining. So, yeah, I do think we need to become better storytellers inside the academy, as you said, Joe. But, you know, as I said earlier, it's becoming increasingly important outside the academy now to be able to tell those stories and to equip others to tell those stories.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:45]: You mentioned grad prep programs as a place where there's space for evolution and how we're preparing student affairs professionals. I'm wondering if you can talk to us a little bit about what your grad prep was like when you were getting your master's degree in student affairs, what you're seeing now, and where you think we should be going.

Mike Segawa [00:17:02]: Wow. That's a long term memory recall for me. Although it doesn't seem like that long ago, it it really doesn't. And I think that's part of the joy of the journey has been. In student affairs, for probably the longest time, and certainly the last 25, 30 years, we have often talked about an arc of a career in student affairs starting with the grad prep program or even earlier than that as an undergraduate, you were a student leader. And usually that meant you were an RA, and then you went to graduate school and you got your master's degree, and then you got into the field. Usually, it was a residence life type position, and then you just moved up the chain. You moved up your career ladder.

Mike Segawa [00:17:42]: And that was the stereotypical arc that led you to a director position, an assistant dean, an associate dean, associate vice president, and then you got to sit in the big chair as the vice president. And that was a traditional career arc. You know, as I've gone through this, actually, very few of us did that traditional career arc from RA to vice president. And I say that as one of the few unicorns that did that. I started as an RA, and I ended up as a vice president. But, you know, most of my colleagues, most of my peers, that wasn't their career arc. We came from all different directions in terms of our journey to eventually becoming a senior officer. So when I think about my grad program and what we did, yes, it was really a very traditional program in that sense of how we would describe it.

Mike Segawa [00:18:31]: It included programs like legal issues. It had a counseling component. It did have a diversity component to it, history. So it very much was traditional, which was a great grounding for me 40, 45 years ago. But the conversations that I had I've had with my our faculty colleagues in these programs, especially over the last 5 to 7 years of my career, pointed out to me how hard it is on our grad prep programs today to prepare our colleagues for this work because there really isn't any way in a usual 2 year master's program to really prepare you for the day to day work that you're gonna now be entering because it's so much harder, so much more complicated, so much more complex than the world I entered over 40 years ago. And a 2 year grad program can't possibly touch on all of the topics that a supervisor would say we need you to get. And so that is the huge challenge to our grad prep programs and to our students coming through those programs now. There really needs to be acknowledgment.

Mike Segawa [00:19:35]: The 2 year master's program, if a person chooses to come that route into the field, can only be the first step in your professional development and preparation for this incredibly challenging but rewarding work.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:47]: And it's interesting because one of the things I've been hearing about the grad prep spaces is that there's some practical elements that we expect that are taught through, GAships or internships, practicum experiences. And that's uneven training ground depending on where a grad student is placed, particularly in navigating sticky political situations on campuses. And those are things sometimes that we can only learn through experience and sometimes stepping right in it in that experience.

Mike Segawa [00:20:18]: Yeah. Stepping right in it is a great way to learn. You just hope you don't step into it too often. One of the things that, again, towards the end of my career, I was really paying more attention to both on my own campuses, but as a profession. We just have to get better at providing our staff with professional development options and opportunities. And to be more purposeful, have them be more purposeful about them, help them to be more purposeful about it, be more structured about it, and to look for the opportunities and to create the opportunities that aren't just going to NASPA, National. Some of our younger colleagues, I think, have this vision of, I need to go to the national conference. That is the professional development opportunity.

Mike Segawa [00:21:05]: That's the place to be seen. That's the place to get the jobs. And all of that, to some degree, has some truth to it. But for me, professional development over the course of your career should be a diversity of opportunities that can be delivered on your own campus, locally, within your community, regionally, nationally, and as you know better than I do, Joe, internationally. So we, as supervisors, just need to get our folks to be more purposeful and structured about their own career development arc because it's gonna it's even more important now than it was 30 or 40 years ago. The skills and preparation and experience that our folks need to be successful and to navigate these really challenging waters is so critical. You are not prepared for the work coming out of the master's program alone. And you're not prepared for the work just by going to conference programs over the course of a few years.

Mike Segawa [00:22:02]: You're gonna have to develop your skills and experiences in ways that are just very sophisticated, very purposeful, and very diverse.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:11]: And those skill sets may not actually be all that different than the ones that you needed when you started your career, but the the nuance around them might have changed for sure.

Mike Segawa [00:22:19]: Yeah. And what to me is even more critical now than it was to me 40 years ago, 45 years ago, is how to sustain yourself in the work. That was really never a question for me and most of my peers for most of our career. And when I say how do we sustain ourselves, it's can I do this work for another 5 years? Can I do this work for another 10 years? Can I do this work for another 25 years? That was never really crossing our minds. There would be bad days or bad weeks where we go, maybe I should go do something else. But those are more fleeting thoughts, and they never stuck. Today, I mean, especially over the last 5 to 7 years, I've had so many conversations with folks at all places in their professional journey that are asking themselves that question. They're not necessarily sharing that with others and especially not sharing it with supervisors.

Mike Segawa [00:23:09]: It was fascinating to me when I would be at NASPA having these kinds of coffee vine conversations or just sitting somewhere quietly on with these topics in mind. And I would ask folks, can you see yourself doing this work for another 15 years? Joe, I and I had dozens of those over the course of last few years. I didn't run into a single person who immediately said, yeah. Absolutely. No problem. I can easily do it. Every single one of them said paused and said, I haven't really told anybody that, but I've thought about it. Can I do this for another x amount of years? And usually it was more than 5.

Mike Segawa [00:23:43]: You know, those of us who are close to retirement, it's like, yeah, we can suck it up and do it. But those who are at mid level positions or entry level positions or whatever, asking them that question was really, on some level, heartbreaking to hear their response because they didn't know if they could do this work for a lifetime of work. And that's hard to hear, but it's also important to hear because supervisors, professional associations, we need to be paying attention to that in ways that I think need to be different than what we have been doing for the last 50 years. Just letting our folks go to national regional conferences saying, that's great, that's good, that's professional development, it's not enough anymore. And one other thing I'll add to it is budgets are tight on every campus no matter what kind you are. And almost always, the first things that we cut are professional development dollars. We have to rethink that because that's a short term fix that will have medium and long term negative consequences for our profession, for our institutions, and our students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:49]: I appreciate you naming the burnout in the field. It's something that we've been talking about on the podcast since I've been working with it really, and COVID really did a number on a lot of us, I think. And that's not specific to the student affairs profession, but a lot of us were holding the space for unprecedented decisions and times and things that were really hard. And as you've mentioned throughout our conversation, the the nuance of the profession has gotten more complicated. The litigiousness has gotten more complicated, and the regulation has gotten more complicated. So as you kind of observe those you're mentoring, what advice do you like to give about how to find that resilience?

Mike Segawa [00:25:28]: It comes back to a lot of things that we know are important. It starts for me with, do not neglect your loved ones. There are going to be days weeks again where, okay, yes, I do have to spend a lot of time with work on campus. But if that happens too often, if you allow that to happen too often, and you don't pay attention to your families, to those who are closest to you, that's gonna be detrimental to them, to you, to your students. And we often let that slide and and sacrifice that. And so my first thing to my folks has always been take care of your families, take care of yourself in that regard. But we oftentimes sacrifice that. And so that that is number 1 for me.

Mike Segawa [00:26:12]: Number 2 is I paid attention a lot to vacation balances for my staff. And those who were accruing huge balances, for a long time, that was seen as a red badge of courage. You know, wow. Look at that. You know, what dedication they have to the work. And I came to believe, actually, no. That's a problem, actually. If we have staff members, colleagues who are actually returning vacation balances to the institution, that's not a good thing.

Mike Segawa [00:26:40]: And so as a supervisor, paying attention to those kinds of details and literally really pushing your folks to use those vacation balances, take the time, is hugely important. Most of our staff have often been at will employees or exempt employees, which means we also have the flexibility to give them some downtime that doesn't have to come off the books of vacation or sick. When they've come off those tough weeks, make sure they take the time to be away and fully away, which is hard with your cell phones and computers and iPads and everything else. But that's hugely important to be able to do. And as a supervisor, you need to role model that. There's a little longer story. But so many years ago, I was asked by NASPA to do a workshop on and I think it was at a new SSAO Institute. And they gave me the, work life balance workshop.

Mike Segawa [00:27:31]: I'm going, oh, okay. I had actually never put together one of those workshops, so I actually had to do some digging around and creating. So I sent an email to about a couple dozen of my colleagues, mostly vice presidents at that point, and said, what do you think of this work life balance thing? And the traditional answers came back, you know, you need to take the time, you need to be attentive to it and all that. But I had a couple colleagues who wrote back saying, you know, I really don't do it. I love my work. I get energy from the work. And so I just dive in. And I don't do a lot of vacation kinds of stuff.

Mike Segawa [00:28:02]: I don't take a lot of downtime. But they said, what I've learned though in that process is my staff is watching me. And so if I'm telling them to take time and I'm not doing it

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:12]: They're not doing it.

Mike Segawa [00:28:13]: They're not doing it. Actions speak louder than words. And so even the rare few for whom the work gave them the energy, so they just really dug in and did so much of it. Even they said, I needed to be more attentive to the message I was sending to my staff, and that's hugely important. Most of us need the downtime. Most of us need the time away. But even those of you who don't, others are watching you. And if you're telling them to go away for a while and regroup and refresh, they're not gonna believe it as much And they're gonna see, I guess what it means is I need to be here all the time to be successful because that's what I see my boss doing or my supervisors are doing.

Mike Segawa [00:28:49]: So being a supervisor and being a leader is really a complex and complicated job. You really need to think beyond your own needs and how you best operate and look at how is this being perceived by those around me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:02]: Absolutely. One of the best pieces of mentorship I received in that regard was being able not only to take leave, but being able to turn off my phone and my email and just be like, I'm not available during this period of time. And I did that for me and also for the team that I was leading, so they knew that they could also do that when they went out.

Mike Segawa [00:29:20]: Technology, on balance, I think, helps us, but not always. And so and I don't know if you were gonna go this direction, Jill, but real quickly, in the way of our work today on campus, I have seen technology be a real challenge for us, with our students especially, student behaviors, the way students now interact with each other, way they interact with us. And on balance, I think it's provided more challenge than we found the opportunity right now. Students on social media these days experience so much harm. And how do we deal with that? How do they deal with that? The conversations we have on campuses these days are oftentimes online and not necessarily mediated. And so we're seeing damage being done to our students especially that we were not prepared to deal with, especially 10, 15 years ago when this first started breaking on our campuses. And so I see the importance of not only us, but our students trying to find distance from social media and technology at times because it can be a really difficult place to try and communicate, develop relationships, exchange ideas. I worked on campuses in which I had too many students tell me I know the right thing to say online or in person.

Mike Segawa [00:30:33]: It's not what I necessarily believe, but I know this is what I need to say in order to stay out of the crosshairs. And I don't wanna be in the crosshairs social media wise or in person wise. So it's really made really genuine engagement for our students on campuses really hard to do nowadays and really hard for us as student affairs folks to facilitate those.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:55]: I think that leads us really nicely into our 3 themed questions for our season. So I'm going to start with our question on the past, which is what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively something we should be letting go of?

Mike Segawa [00:31:11]: Continuing forward to focus on the student and student learning and the student experience. Student learning has been terrific as far as an understanding of what skills our our students are developing. But one of the things that we're not measuring well enough is, are are students having fun? Are they enjoying themselves? Are they enjoying the experience? It's great to measure their intellectual development, their social development, and all those kinds of things, but this needs to be fun, and it needs to be enjoyable. And I don't think we've paid enough attention to that. So it is the focus on the student that we bring forward, but moving forward, these are supposed to be the best years of their lives. And for an increasing number of our students, I'm not sure that it is. And that's where we can help them in student affairs more than their faculty members can, perhaps more than their parents can. That's a role that we can well play for our students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:05]: Moving into the present, what's happening in the field of student affairs right now that's going well for us?

Mike Segawa [00:32:10]: Wow. That's a really good question because I don't know that many of us think that way right now because of all the challenges that surround us. So what's going well for us right now is we are responding to the emergencies, if you will, the crises really, really well. Go back to the pandemic. You know, that was just 2020, so it wasn't that long ago. But the speed, the effectiveness that we approach that, I give us a lot of credit for that because that was something most of us, well, hardly any of us had ever dealt with something like that. So there wasn't any playbook for how to deal with this crisis on our campus. And earlier, we talked about, the lack of appreciation for student affairs folks within the academy.

Mike Segawa [00:32:51]: I think historically that's been true, but I do think one of the silver linings to this pandemic has been especially our faculty colleagues have come to appreciate even more what student affairs people bring to the student experience. Because it was us that we were leading the way on how do we respond in the pandemic, how do we take care of our students, and even to some degree, helping our faculty members understand how can they most effectively now teach our students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:17]: And our third question on the future. In an ideal world, what does the field need to do to thrive towards our future?

Mike Segawa [00:33:23]: Well, I have talked about it already, John. That is we need to be engaged in what I call the public square. We need to now step outside of our academy walls and engage the publics, whether those are legislators, other politicians, local leaders, civic leaders. We need to be more assertive about going out there and sharing our stories. And for most of us, that should be fun. Bragging about our students, bragging about our institutions, but doing it in a way that we bring the data to. We can't just say trust us. That's a huge difference from when I entered this work.

Mike Segawa [00:33:58]: 40 or 50 years ago, I was taught the public trusts us in the academy in higher education.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:03]: That's definitely different than now.

Mike Segawa [00:34:05]: So if we say this is what we need to do when it comes to the work of teaching our students, they will defer to us. The courts defer to us. Parents defer to us. Politicians defer to us. As you said, that's no longer the case, and we have not yet adjusted to that reality. And that's not gonna change. We'll not go back to the days where we would say trust us, and they'd let us do what we want. Even those who are allies and supporters are now at a place where, okay, I wanna believe you, but you have to show me why this is true, or you have to show me why this is going to work.

Mike Segawa [00:34:37]: And we have not yet pivoted in a way, I think, that embraces that and then prepares us to be effective storytellers of the critical work that we're doing, you know, on campuses.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:49]: Mike, is there a particular student affairs story that you would love to make sure that our listeners hear from your career?

Mike Segawa [00:34:54]: So I spent, 1 year at the University of Nevada, Reno. I spent most of my career in the Pacific Northwest and especially at University of Puget Sound and 13 years as a senior officer at Puget Sound. But for a variety of reasons, felt like the right time to leave was then when I did. And the next year, I had some colleagues, some friends at UNR asked if I would come down and help them out for a year as an interim dean. So I did. And one of the last meetings I had was with a student at UNR in my office. And she was there because it was May. And she was a senior, and she thought she was in position to graduate.

Mike Segawa [00:35:32]: All she needed was another class in summer school, and she would graduate. And she had mapped this out to the penny for herself over her 4 years. What she didn't realize in having to attend one summer session was summer session was more expensive than the academic year. So she didn't have the money to complete the summer session. So a faculty member had referred her to me, to our office. She explained her story to me, and she was a bartender at a casino in Reno, which she said in her case, she says, I need to wear a bustier to work. She said, I need to get out of this job, but I need to graduate in order to do that. But I don't have the money to finish.

Mike Segawa [00:36:10]: She needed $300 is what she needed, I think. So I had funds to be able to do that as most deans and VPs do. We have some money. So I was able to provide her with $300, and she could finish the summer session. So she thanked me profusely, left my office, walked outside. And she was walking by my office on the outside, and she didn't realize I could see her. She was literally jumping up and down and wiping tears away from her eyes. $300 did that, but it was a huge reminder to me of why we do this work, what's important in the work, and the joy that we can get from it, no matter how complicated the jobs have become and no matter how stressful they are, there can always be these reminders of what's really important and what sustains us in the work when we have that kind of interaction with one student, in this case, for a few $100.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:02]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:08]: Thanks, Jill. Really excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a lot happening in NASPA. The full registration for the 2025 NASPA Annual Conference is open. And that means housing is open as well. So if you are planning to attend the 2025 NASPA Annual Conference in New Orleans, This is the time to get in and get all squared away with your full registration with free conference workshops and housing and everything else. Take advantage of the early rate until December 18th. For those of you that are looking at attending, the conference programs will be held at the New Orleans Ernest and Morial, Ernest and Morial Convention Center, and the Hilton New Orleans Riverside. Sleeping rooms are available in a number of hotels close to the convention center and the Hilton.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:04]: There's also a large number of pre conference workshops that are available for attendees of the 2025 NASPA annual conference that includes half day, full day, and multiple day pre conference workshops. These learning sessions will take place on Saturday, March 15th, and Sunday, March 16th. You can register for a pre conference workshop to join colleagues and experts for an opportunity to discuss important and timely topics in-depth. Now do note that pre conference workshops do require an additional registration and fee and are not included in the main annual conference registration. Most pre conference workshops are an add on to the main conference registration, which means that you must register, you must be registered for the 2025 NASPA Annual Conference in order to register for a pre conference workshop. The exceptions to that include the International Symposium, the Community College Institute, and the Undergraduate Student Conference. The Public Policy Division just released a update on a number of different public policy issues that are impacting our campuses. Earlier this month, both the House and Senate approved the short term continuing resolution extending federal government funding at fiscal year 2024 levels until December 20th, 2024.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:14]: This move signed into law by president Biden prevents a government shutdown and pushes budget discussions beyond the 2024 presidential election. For higher education, the CR maintains funding for the Department of Education at current levels. Looking forward, the binding, the Biden administration FY 25 budget request includes eliminating origination fees on federal student loans and increasing the maximum Pell Grant by $750 As house appropriations chair, Tom Cole indicated, the outcome of the presidential election will significantly influence whether Congress finalizes a full year funding deal in December or opts for another temporary measure. On September 24, 2024, the house also passed HR 5646, the Stop Campus Hazing Act, a bipartisan bill aimed at enhancing student safety by mandating that universities report hazing incidents under the Clery Act and implementing hazing prevention programs. The bill also requires that institutions disclose which student organizations have a history of hazing incidents, increasing transparency and allowing students and parents to make informed decisions. The measure is now headed to the Senate for approval and if passed, it would become the 1st federal anti hazing law. The College Cost Reduction Act or CCRA introduced in January 2024 continues to gain traction with 153 House sponsors pushing it forward. However, while the bill aims to re aims to reduce college costs, it may increase student loan burdens and weaken institutional accountability by repealing the gainful employment and 90.10 rules and limiting debt relief for students impacted by institutional closures.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:54]: The outcome of the November elections will likely shape the future of this legislation. The education department also extended the deadline for colleges to report program level data for gainful employment and financial value transparency from October 1, 2024 to January 15, 2025 to accommodate challenges with the new FAFSA rollout. The reported data will be used to evaluate program value, including graduates ability to repay loans and earnings compared to non college graduates. While supportive of the delay, advocacy groups stress the importance of timely implementation to provide students with critical information for making informed decisions.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:33]: Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association, and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:53]: Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:58]: Chris, thank you so much for always keeping us updated on what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Mike, we have reached our lightning round portion of the show. I have 7 questions for you to answer in about 90 seconds.

Mike Segawa [00:43:10]: Okay.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:11]: Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Mike Segawa [00:43:17]: Center Field by John Fogarty. It's a baseball song. And this is gonna sound weird, but I also told my wife, at my memorial service, this is what I want played. So it's not only my walk up song, but it's my walk off song too.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:30]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Mike Segawa [00:43:33]: Astronaut.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:34]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Mike Segawa [00:43:37]: That's a great question. I would say Greg Roberts was one of them, Grant Sherwood at Colorado State, and most recently, president I served at Puget Sound for 13 years, Ron Thomas.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:48]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Mike Segawa [00:43:53]: Any book by George Kuh. And I say that now, and I will deny it to George because I always give George a hard time. I always say, people think you're really smart, George. You're not as smart as they think you are. And he goes, well, I know that, but they keep buying my stuff. So but, yeah, anything written by George, I always paid attention to.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:13]: Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Mike Segawa [00:44:16]: Lessons in chemistry.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:17]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Mike Segawa [00:44:21]: You know what? It is a local sports station in Seattle.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:25]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Mike Segawa [00:44:29]: Yeah. Well, Mary, my wife, and I, we have been married now for 42 years, and she is also a former student affairs person. So she put up with a lot over the course of our 42 years of marriage. So that's the biggest shout out. After that, the staffs that I worked with at what was then Central Missouri State University and then University of Washington and especially at University of Puget Sound and at Evergreen State College where I spent the most time, those folks were hugely important to me in my life and profession and totally enjoyable. And then at Pitzer College, where I spent most of the last 3 years, amazing places to work because of the amazing people there.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:06]: Mike, I really appreciate you taking time out of retired life to come back and share your wisdom with the NASPA community. If anyone would appreciate your mentorship as well in the future, how can they find you?

Mike Segawa [00:45:16]: It's easy, Jill. It's a little old school. Email is great. My address, it's in, the NASPA directory if they wanna get there, but it's also it's just mikesagawa@comcast.net.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:27]: Mike, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and your voice with us today.

Mike Segawa [00:45:31]: You're welcome, Jill. Had great fun here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:37]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:15]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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In this episode of "SA Voices from the Field," Melissa Manuel, a seasoned student affairs professional with extensive international experience, offers valuable insights into creating more efficient, collaborative, and holistic systems within higher education. Here are some key takeaways from her conversation.

Bridging Gaps Through Service and Collaboration Melissa Manuel emphasizes the importance of fostering community involvement among students who cannot afford traditional courses by offering them roles within the institution. This not only helps these students receive education but also instills a sense of service and dedication, aligning them closely with the institution’s vision and mission. The integration of such methods shows promise in creating a more inclusive and invested student community.

Leveraging Global Perspectives Manuel advocates for a more holistic and international approach to research and collaboration within student affairs. By looking beyond local data and considering global perspectives, institutions can vastly improve their policies and initiatives. This approach also ensures that practices are culturally inclusive and innovative, benefiting from the diversity of thought from various parts of the world.

Technological Advancements and AI Integration One of the compelling areas of discussion was the application of AI and digital tools to streamline administrative processes. Manuel highlights the potential of AI in automating tasks such as scanning transfer credits and reading transcripts, thereby saving valuable time and reducing human error. She also points out the slow adoption of such technologies in higher education and urges institutions to become more open to these advancements for greater efficiency and effectiveness.

Developing Holistic Student Systems In her current role, Manuel is working towards creating holistic and interconnected systems that integrate student affairs with academic affairs. These systems aim to provide a seamless experience for students, similar to the comprehensive view offered by K-12 teachers. By breaking down silos between departments and encouraging collaboration, institutions can ensure that every student’s journey is well-supported and aligned with institutional goals.

Personalized Learning and Data-Driven Solutions Melissa also touched on how AI and data analysis can create tailored learning experiences. By understanding students' interests and areas of difficulty, AI can recommend curriculum adjustments and additional resources, providing a more personalized education. Additionally, data analysis can uncover trends, such as geographical challenges faced by students, leading to solutions like increased online course offerings.

Empowering Students Through Experiential Learning Drawing from her entrepreneurial experience, Manuel supports models of experiential learning where students are actively involved in managing projects and initiatives. This hands-on approach not only provides practical experience but also promotes a sense of ownership and adaptability among students, preparing them for real-world challenges.

To round off the episode, Melissa thanks everyone who has impacted her professional journey and emphasizes the critical role of collaboration within student affairs. Listeners are encouraged to engage with her on LinkedIn or via email for further discussions.

By incorporating these innovative practices and fostering a collaborative environment, higher education institutions can better support their students' holistic development and success.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. On today's episode of Essay Voices, we welcome Melissa Manuel. Melissa has over 17 years of experience in higher education across 5 countries and 7 institutions. Having worked for 4 startup institutions in the Arabian Gulf, Melissa is familiar with how internationalization, multicultural working environments, pedagogy, and student success comes together in a variety of combinations to support student and institutional success. Her experience has also bred familiarity with many student and academic affairs best practices, as well as practical considerations and implementation outside of our common practices. Melissa will be talking to us today about starting up a brand new institution, building systems from scratch.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:07]: So in our theme of the past, present, and future of student affairs, Melissa brings rich experience to this dialogue. Hope you enjoy it. Melissa, welcome to SA Voices.

Melissa Manuel [00:01:16]: Thank you very much, Jill. I am very excited to be here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:19]: It's always such a delight for me to get to talk to our international guests, and tell us where you are joining us from today.

Melissa Manuel [00:01:26]: Today, I am in Saudi Arabia.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:28]: And Melissa is at a not to be named at this point institution that is building and growing in the role of registrar. So, Melissa, can you tell us how you got to your current seat?

Melissa Manuel [00:01:39]: Well, that's a long story, but one full of lots of twists and turns. So I did begin working in higher education in Canada for quite a few years while I was doing my undergrad degree. And then I got an opportunity to work in Qatar where I worked for 2 institutions. And then I moseyed on over to Saudi about 6 years ago, and now I'm in Northern Saudi Arabia. So total, I've got about 17 years in higher education between 3 countries, but with the 2 extra degrees are outside the countries that I've worked in, probably a total of 5 countries.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:09]: That's amazing. So what are the other two countries on the list?

Melissa Manuel [00:02:12]: So my master's degree was done in the United Kingdom, and I'm currently doing my PhD in the United States.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:18]: So like many of our international guests, especially expat international guests, you've had a journey that has taken you through multiple cultural contexts. And that's one of the reasons that I'm thrilled to be talking to you on our past, present, and future theme because you've kind of seen the way that higher ed is playing out in a variety of different contexts. So what can you tell us right now about the context for higher education and student affairs in the kingdom of Saudi Arabia?

Melissa Manuel [00:02:42]: That's a really great question. So student affairs, I would say specifically in Saudi, and I would extend that toward the Greater Arabian Gulf, doesn't exactly exist as a profession just yet. You do see more of a student affairs presence in a lot of branch campuses to international institutions, especially the American ones where student affairs really does have a strong preference. But for the most part, it is a growing area. But what you see in those areas is a lot more in in institutional collaboration because student affairs doesn't exist on its own, but it's really wrapped up in academic affairs or student services or student success, which is what you see, especially even in a lot of Asian institutions where student success will really encompass both the registrarials type of side where we're looking at registration and letters and support. And then also the student affairs type of side that we see where we have student clubs and activities, internships, career support counseling. So it's really more of a holistic feeling, I would say, in this region. But with that, it does have a lot of room to grow, which is really wonderful and to be part of that foundation.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:45]: Having done this work in the Canadian context, which, from my limited knowledge looks a little closer to US based student affairs work. What can you say in the compare and contrast space about what you love about this holistic student success model you're working in, and what you wish might look a little closer to the system that you grew up in?

Melissa Manuel [00:04:04]: In Canada, I would agree that student affairs at least is a lot more similar to the United States student affairs type of systems. However, on the registrarial side, so I'm currently a university registrar. It is actually a lot more holistic in the Canadian context where you generally have a registrar's office that serves both admissions and enrollment and records. Whereas in the United States, you'll have admission because it's so tied to funding as a separate entity. And I think there can be a lot lost between those different groups, whereas in Canada, I do see that a lot more closer. In my current context, I see all of those mingling together a lot more, which is really wonderful. Because again, it provides, I think, a stronger and more holistic student experience because you're more familiar with the journey that those students have come from. You know where they were recruited from.

Melissa Manuel [00:04:52]: You maybe know what kind of cultural context they're coming from. You've seen them go through admissions. You've seen them go through registration and maybe some of the points that they had at the point of initial registration and orientation where maybe they had a lot of family support or parental guidance. And you can kinda watch that and see how that's affected their student journey and where they go through clubs, what interests them, what their career paths are because you've seen how those other factors have influenced their choices and their interests. So that's what I do really love here, and I would like to actually see more of that collaborative holistic student experience in other countries as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:27]: What does that look like structurally? I think when we look at US and Canadian higher ed student affairs structures, they're kind of established and matured now and a little bit solidified in a lot of ways in terms of the way that the work is pretty vertical, meaning that we've got people that are specialized in various functional areas. And those areas of specialization have really become their own mini professions at this point. We're seeing far less generalists in student affairs than we used to. And I think that is creating some unique pathways into mid and senior level leadership as well because some of those skill sets mean that we don't necessarily get exposed to other parts of the profession. So I'm hoping you can share more about what that means to truly be more integratively collaborative.

Melissa Manuel [00:06:12]: Well, definitely the background of what you see student affairs professionals coming in internationally, and I would say that not just for the Arabian Gulf, but in many different regions. Australia is a really good example of that because they don't have a strong student affairs type of system. A lot of their local students don't live on campus, so student affairs is actually really integrated with their curriculum development. So same as in Australia as you see here, and I would suggest a lot of Asian institutions as well as maybe European too, that you can see people coming into student affairs at fairly senior levels without any experience in higher education, but maybe they come from counseling backgrounds or career development services or maybe student clubs or recreation. You see a lot of that as well. And it is really interesting having worked for very young institutions to see how the individuals that are coming in with those very particular backgrounds outside of student affairs have influenced the structures internally and the way that the university goes, what kind of resources are given because they see those things as priority in many cases. And I really like to see that because I do think it provides a more individual, a different type of set of circumstances that students can kind of go towards, and there's more influence because maybe if you'd haven't worked in student affairs, then you're more keen to see what your stakeholders have to say because you haven't been exposed to that before. And so I think that's something that's really special here, and I think it provides an opportunity for innovation because we're not so tied to maybe the education and the history that we've gone through.

Melissa Manuel [00:07:40]: I do think that there can be some things that are lost obviously in translation in understanding what that student experience means and how it can really change a student's life. So I do think there again, there are going to be pros and cons. In terms of structures, generally, what I have seen, and it really depends on if an institution is a homegrown local institution or they are a branch campus. Homegrown local institution or they are a branch campus, particularly if they're US branch campus or even a Canadian branch campus. But what I have seen a lot of the times is you'll have a director of enrollment or a director of student services or student success. Sometimes this individual might be a manager or they might even be a VP. And then from there, you'll have people that are working on specific areas, but really they're all reporting to the same individual. And I think that's something that can be challenging in the US context is that generally, you'll have student affairs or a dean of students reporting up one side and then you'll have the academic side of the house, academic affairs that are dealing with policies.

Melissa Manuel [00:08:36]: So this is an administrative side of the academic house that's going up the academic side and they don't really talk to one another. So what I have seen in my own experience is a little bit of a mismatch sometimes when it comes to the institutional voice, how policies are put into practice, and how things work in general, and the type of support I think that students can get. I think this has been fixed a lot with a one stop shop that we see with a lot of institutions now. But I do still think that there's not as much communication as there does need to be because with the student experience, it's a holistic experience. And in particular, there's some really great research that has shown that students, and this is in the US, that American students feel a lot more comfortable asking for any type of career kind of support or academic support from their faculty versus the specialists that are working in, let's say academic advising. And there's a few different reasons I think for that. One is the passion, of course, that's gonna bring faculty to the table anyway. But also, I think that they have a greater understanding of that kind of holistic map of where a student can go, where somebody in it specifically in advising may be able to say, okay.

Melissa Manuel [00:09:40]: These are the courses that you can take, but can they tell you maybe this person's doing a startup over here and you should try that, or this institution is looking at some kind of commercial engagement that might be of interest to you. And so they have a more specialized map because they're specialists, and we're kind of losing that I think overall holistic vision, which we don't know what's most important to students. So I do think a holistic vision in my point of view, I think is preferable.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:03]: There's 2 things I've always said to team members that I've worked with, which is, you know, the students don't care how we're organized. They don't care who reports to who. They don't care really what funding streams are going to x, y, and z sometimes. Sometimes they do. But the reality is the the anchor of the point of care for a student is what is their experience on the campus. And they don't differentiate between an in and outside of the classroom experience on a US campus. They look holistically, as you've mentioned, what is my experience as a student at this institution? And that whole picture is what paints their entire experience from, you know, entry to degree. So this is a an approach I think a lot of institutions are working towards in the US, trying to make more fluid some of those boundaries that have somehow become a little harder over time.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:49]: And I'll give a shout out to Chris Lewis, our co producer and audio engineer on this show, because he is the NASPA, I believe, co chair of the SAPA knowledge community, which is student affairs partnering with academic affairs. And the goal there is kind of the same thing, to soften some of those boundaries. But I also know for a lot of the US based professionals, those boundaries we seek to soften them, and we're not necessarily met with that same idea from some of our partners on the academic affairs side. So I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit more about how you've worked with your colleagues to soften some of those boundaries.

Melissa Manuel [00:11:22]: Absolutely. And I 100% agree with you, with what you just said. And also shout out to Chris too. So I actually did attend a Sapa meeting. I think it was last year because I did wanna become part of that team, but then I became a member at large on a finance committee for ACRO, the American Association For Collegiate Registrars. And so I couldn't really do both, but I absolutely agree with the work that Chris is doing and making sure that academic is partnering with student affairs and vice versa. So some of the things that I have done, and I will admit it has been a lot easier, I think, for me than you might see in other institutions because I tend to work for very small start up institutions and ones that are very young. So there's not a lot of history that suggests only this side of the house can deal with this and only that kind of side of the house can deal with that because we haven't faced a lot of those issues to be able to determine those pathways.

Melissa Manuel [00:12:12]: So again, I think it has been a little bit easier for me. Because they're small or because the institutions I've worked had have been small, I have made a very strong effort to meet individually with every single stakeholder that is in my institution. So, my previous institution, the registrar's office that I was working at didn't have the best reputation and just for servicing stakeholders and that especially came from faculty. So I really made it my mission to take every single faculty member 1 on 1 out for coffee just to understand their point of view. And it was really a kind of a two way street. So I was able to really write down a lot of the priorities that they had had and be able to clarify some of the reasons maybe why certain certain things weren't happening in a certain way because maybe their population or maybe of their students or what they wanted was only gonna service, let's say, 0.5% of our student demographic. So where are those resources going? And then also to be able to explain some of the reasons why we've done things and maybe where it is on the priority list of changing it in the future. And I have done that also with a lot of my colleagues on the student affairs side.

Melissa Manuel [00:13:14]: And then again, when it comes to any type of project, I really try and make sure that we're sharing that. And a really good example is between the academic catalog and the academic hand or the student handbook. So one of the things that I did in one of my previous institutions was I rewrote the entire academic catalog with the support of my office and our senior academic leadership. But because we were changing everything there, we really needed to have an understanding of how those policies affected other areas. So each department as well as the, let's say, student rule regulations. So for example, a student goes on a leave of absence, can they still be, let's say, a leader of their student club? So So things like that and where those pathways kind of go. And so what I would do is I went and showed all the changes to and circulated amongst my student affairs colleagues, and then they were able to go through it and provide feedback. And then we also responded to that feedback, and we had plenty of meetings to help understand kinda where we needed to work together.

Melissa Manuel [00:14:09]: And again, really trying to find that one institutional voice, making sure we're using language that really makes sense. And so they started doing the same thing for us when they were going through the student handbook. We would go through it as well and say, oh, you know what? We've actually changed this, or we're looking at this, and maybe you can change that here because we had this feedback from over there. And it really became a lot easier for students, I think, to find information that was consistent across both sides, and then we were both sides were aware of why certain things were the way that they were because that's nothing that a student wants to hear is to say, oh, this doesn't work, and then somebody say, well, that department is just terrible. And so it really provided a learning opportunity for both sides, and we would have regular meetings. So that's one of the things that I really do appreciate as well is regular touch points. Even if it's just something to say, you know, my department is totally loaded right now. We're super busy and then I can say, you know what? I've got some stuff.

Melissa Manuel [00:14:56]: Let me just back off a little bit. I'll give you a little bit of space. So being able to really read what your departments are going through and recognize that at the end of the day, especially when it comes to administrative functions, in my view, we are there to service our stakeholders who service the vision or mission of the institution. And that's our job is to work together. And if we're not working together, are we really doing our jobs in the best way possible? And that sometimes does mean taking a step back on putting budgets forward or putting initiatives forward to say, does this actually serve the best interest? And I think that can be hard for a lot of individuals across the board in any country, but really to take a step back and making sure that we understand what we're there to do at the end of the day. One of the

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:34]: most interesting things to me about your career is that you've gotten to build systems a lot from scratch. And taking what you know from your educational background, your domestic context in Canada, your educational context in the UK, now in the US as well, and your lived experiences in the Gulf Coast region. So knowing all of that and kind of looking at that very unique melange of all of these things, when you build a system, what are the parts that you're keeping that you are excited about and you know that work for you? And what are the parts that you're going, we need to jettison this for either cultural context reasons or because we don't need to replicate something that might not be working as well as it could be?

Melissa Manuel [00:16:12]: Are you meaning student systems in terms of more technology side or in practice or a little bit of both?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:18]: Could be any of those things, I think.

Melissa Manuel [00:16:20]: For systems, I think along the lines of where we're going with technology and digitalization is making sure things data entry is really easy. I really don't like having to put my own staff into roles where they're just taking something from one document and manually typing it into a system. So really trying to automate that, and then if that has to happen, is saying, okay, is this really worth the time for you to do this and what we're going to get out of that? And even if we can find maybe Band Aid solutions where we use AI tools to maybe auto scan, let's say, for transfer credit purposes, we auto scan all the transfer credit reports that have maybe manually been done. There's gonna be errors, but are those errors worth having manual entry versus allowing those errors to survive in the documentation and the reports, but making sure that now we've just changed what would be a 2 week process to an hour. So trying to balance that as much as possible, and then in moving forward, making sure that we are accounting for that, the best use of our time and the way that we're using things. When it comes to any kind of system, I am really wanting everybody involved or to at least have an opportunity to talk about whatever we're doing and put their opinions forward. So for example, I'm in the process of building an academic calendar for my new institution, which is a really fun process. Are we semester? Do we have terms? Do we have quarters? What What kind of credit value systems are we gonna have? What type of grading is gonna come out of that? And one of the things that I've seen at a lot of the institutions that I've worked for is a lack of history on how those decisions were made and who was able to put their opinions forward.

Melissa Manuel [00:17:52]: So what I have done or tried to do and continue to do is to put together all the benchmarking that I can find. Say within this cultural context and within the where we are today, this is a couple of opportunities for us and then this is my recommendation. And then I circulate that out and I collect all the feedback both in person and in writing, and I put all that together, collate that. And then I do respond to various things, and some individuals will have opinions that maybe that's great, and I have recorded them down even if I don't agree with them or other people don't agree with them because then there at least there's a history to know if we did look at that or not, and maybe why we chose not to go in that direction. And I think that really helps to build a better understanding of maybe the concerns or challenges that people have and the different stakeholders will have when it comes to building these types of of systems. When it comes to policies and processes, so actually for NASPA next year, I did put together a proposal to talk about these types of things when it comes to collaboration and how you go through that. And it is a lot of work to make sure that those systems are in line across the university, but it makes such a big difference when it works for all stakeholders and then all reporting opportunities. And so I'd love to actually go into detail.

Melissa Manuel [00:19:00]: I've got so many details on on how to do that, but a lot of it just really takes relationship building across institutions, and I think it takes when it comes to that relationship building piece, is really taking a step back to not defend your department or defend your position, but to say, okay, these are the current concerns they have, and my job is to try and see how I can compromise in a way that really supports the stakeholder, maybe educate a little bit to understand. So maybe some things are accredited related. I don't have control over that, but we need to meet accreditation requirements, so we have to do it a certain way. Or saying, you know what? They do it, and they have a really different ideas. Let's see if I can benchmark to see how it's worked in other institutions. And the other thing that I find is really helpful working for a lot of startup institutions, and I think the NASPA Student Affairs community is so good at this, is having relationships at other institutions to be able to benchmark, and not only benchmark, but to say, okay, I've benchmarked this, you do it like this, what is your opinion on it? Does it work for you? And really get a in-depth feel of how things are going to affect your student stakeholders. So I know that was a little bit of a roundabout, coming back to how those systems work, and I know that's a very general way of doing that. But when it comes to technology, at least, I think everybody's in line with that is we want things that make sense, that don't take a lot of time, that are easy to read, and that can configure across all different types of departments and areas in a way that people understand.

Melissa Manuel [00:20:21]: And I'll just give a quick example of what that means is defining certain things. So I think the word matriculation, for example, or even admitted student or registered student, that maybe sound, oh, yeah, I know what that means. Yes, maybe generally you do, but on a reporting level, that can have many different meanings. I think it's really important that the systems that you're putting together are predefined and making sure everybody is aware of what those things mean when those things come out because I think that's where a lot of issues do arise.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:48]: What is a student is a question I've wrestled through at a couple of different institutions in my career because we do mean something different if we're talking to our admissions team than if we're talking to our registrar team than if we're talking to our student conduct and behavioral intervention teams. How we define that student has many, many implications. And it's interesting that you get to wrestle with that question from the moment, one, before the student has even arrived. I wanted to ask you a little bit about because you mentioned technology, if you had begun to integrate any forms of artificial intelligence or AI into the work you're doing since you are building this system from the ground up?

Melissa Manuel [00:21:24]: Short answer is yes. Again, I think we're very lucky working for new institutions to be able to use that technology very early on, and there's been some really great research out there. So IASIS, the International Association of Student Affairs and Services, also did a really great work last year looking at how student affairs professionals felt with technology and what type of technology they were using and where they see that going. And I think that's really a fabulous way to start to kinda get the temperature of where student affairs is and where higher ed is. In general, and I I think even regardless of what research has shown, higher education in general can be really tricky when it comes to using these types of tools. And Brian Rosenberg came out with a really great article last year, entitled Higher Eds Ruinous Resistance to Change because realistically, we are really slow and that does mean that we have been a little bit slower in other areas as well. That doesn't mean that we're not gonna get there but I think just having to use that technology, we're a little bit more behind because we don't have enough experience using it and where we can use it and where it's beneficial to use it. So some of the areas that have been of interest to me and my team is using AI to look at transcripts, to be able to auto read transcripts and be able to maybe make admission decisions or at least preliminary decisions a little bit quicker.

Melissa Manuel [00:22:41]: Maybe looking at transfer credit. What I would love to be able to see is request for transfer credits or equivalencies, be able to have AI be able to actually say, okay, this is the course. I've looked online. I found this description. I have the syllabi. What are the equivalencies, maybe, globally that could be used and whether that course potentially could be used for transfer credit and then providing that maybe as a manual check afterward with our faculty to be able to say, okay, this is accurate or not. So we don't have a lot of those databases really full yet to be able to, I think, have a lot of confidence in those uses, but it is there. Personalized learning.

Melissa Manuel [00:23:14]: So if a student is interested in something, they maybe can provide goals or interests or activities they enjoy, and then have AI be able to create curriculum and opportunities for them where they can get involved and maybe expand on what they are already interested in. And I think that also can be used for weaknesses as well to say, okay, I've noticed maybe across all these courses that you're writing in statistics, let's say, is a little bit weak. Maybe let's focus on some statistics work so that you can increase in all your courses. So it's not just, oh, you've been struggling in this course, but maybe be able to see holistically across all courses. So things that are harder for people to do manually, to be able to just dump in data and be able to provide trends to say, oh, look, this demographic of student maybe is struggling because maybe they're commuting from a different way and this highway is actually really bad, and there's a lot of snowstorms or sandstorms there. We need to maybe provide a couple little bit more opportunity for those guys to take online courses or something during those periods. So I think it'd be really interesting to see it be used in ways that we haven't been able to use it in the past. The other thing that we wanted to make sure is that, again, any technology that we're using can speak across the board to other areas.

Melissa Manuel [00:24:27]: And so again, I am defining what it means for a student to be an applicant, what it means for a student to be admitted, what does it mean for a student to be matriculated. And with all those types of definitions, then the system can really put that together because I have seen a lot of different systems be able to provide that information separately, but it means different things. You can't put it together because those systems speak different languages. One speaking Greek where a student means x and another speaking something else where it means y. So really starting from scratch, we've been able to try and make sure that we're speaking the same institutional and reporting types of language. That's very administrative, but it can make a very big difference for ensuring that we are knowing the trends of our students, and then being able to react and change appropriately, and pivot a little more quickly, which again, I think has been a really big struggle for higher education to be able to do.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:14]: Melissa, I wanna move towards our theme questions for this season. Again, we're focused on the past, present, and future of student affairs. We've had a wonderful conversation about the present. So I'm gonna ask you about the past. What's one component of the history of our profession that you think we need to be able to carry forward or inversely something we need to let go of?

Melissa Manuel [00:25:32]: I think we've already talked a little bit about this, but that holistic sense and that one on one relationship as, I mean, and this is going to happen in any type of industry and you see this a lot in corporations, is that as industries and organizations grow, that individual connection potentially gets lost because students are now numbers, they're not people, and we're focused on our KPIs. We're focused on our outcomes rather than really maybe success just means that a student had a wonderful experience. Maybe they were a b student, and maybe they have done very ordinary things that an institution doesn't feel is really, wow, big KBI check. But having made a big difference in a student's life, I think that is just as important, and I know that makes it difficult when it comes to measuring an organization's success. But I think for anybody working in this field and passionate about this field that they understand that. So I would like to see a little bit more of maybe that jack of all trades come back where individuals and staff can actually follow students throughout their cycle and build that relationship. And you can see that with with teachers as well, and let's say k to 12 types of systems is that one teacher that really believed in that student and followed them through. Even though they're maybe no longer that student's teacher, they're still a part of that life, that student's life.

Melissa Manuel [00:26:40]: And when the student graduates, they come back to that teacher and say, wow, you made a really big difference. So I would like to see more of that. I think to do that, I think we need to try and break silos, which again I do think is happening. So when it comes to a trend of student affairs, I do see that. I think we might also be more forced to try and move in that direction for a few different reasons. One is budget. You'll see a lot of institutions, especially in the US, are struggling with budget cuts. And the first place that we tend to see that often is in, I think, in student activities and student affairs.

Melissa Manuel [00:27:09]: So if we're more collaborative and working with other units a little bit more holistically, then I think that becomes a little bit easier. I think that again, there's a lot of opportunity and learning between students and staff that we can have, and having again lifelong learners as well coming through and making sure that we are adhering to that type of model. And then the other trend that I would like to see and continue to see is the international student mobility piece. So there are a lot of increasing opportunities for students to travel abroad and register with a variety of institutions, and again, I think this provides an opportunity for that more holistic piece because we're bringing a lot of new flavors to student affairs because now we're catering to incoming international students, and we ourselves, like me, might not might be non native to the country that we're working in. And then we're also catering to the outgoing students who maybe need some cultural training for wherever they plan to go. And I think that's a natural progression with globalization as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:04]: Moving into the present, what's happening in the field of student affairs right now that is going well?

Melissa Manuel [00:28:09]: Something that I would absolutely love to bring into Saudi, and I do think that there will be an opportunity to do this, and we're starting to see some younger, more innovative institutions do this, and I think it's great, is making a more student driven student affairs. So for example, student affairs organizations, they want to set up clubs and they want spaces and provide resources and they really want to give students everything they possibly can, and I think that's great. But research does show that people are far more invested in programs when they have been part of developing them. So I'd like to see student affairs become more a facilitator for students to grow their own programs, and then also manage them, providing students with the opportunity for learning through maybe business management, procurement, budgeting, leadership, succession planning, and really handing over, putting that all together might be a little more messy. But it gives something that you just can't get through regular curriculum or if somebody has given you all those things to start with and you don't understand or maybe appreciate the value of what you have. Then I also think that that would allow organizations to pivot and change more easily as the student demographics change and maybe as society changes. When institutions, for example, they spend resources, let's say, on building a state of the art maker space, they've hired staff to run it, they've got managers, they have all the supplies, they're maybe more likely to keep that investment. But if students ask for that space, they staff it, they maybe do the fundraising to get those materials.

Melissa Manuel [00:29:31]: It is now their project. The students that are governing that space can then pivot and recognize change again a lot faster than I think institutions can. In Texas, there's been a new, I think actually it's a k twelve system, but it's affiliated with a college in Texas called Opportunity Central, where students run businesses that are used by all the community members like a mall, and they have everything on the 1st floor of the school within the traditional classrooms above. And there's a lot of non student based businesses there that also get reduced lease costs, lease costs if they mentor students. And that for me is the ideal example of collaboration at its finest because you're maximizing experiential opportunities for students in almost every way imaginable. And then you're also minimizing weaknesses like reliance on external vendors that may not care or cooperate with stakeholders, and then also reducing overall operational costs. And I will, as a side note, say I am an entrepreneur. I have owned my own businesses, and one of the things that I love to do is time for pay.

Melissa Manuel [00:30:23]: So if I have clients who want to become more involved and maybe limited in some way, whether that's time, money, opportunity, etcetera, I offer an exchange. So for example, if a student cannot pay for courses, they can help with some of the administrative burden like responding to emails and checking other students in. And in this way, they are becoming more a part of the community and are invested in the services they are providing because they're more familiar with the client base. While I, as the company fulfill a need that I would have to pay for anyway, but I'm far more likely to get a more dedicated employee because they have an understanding and empathy in a way that maybe an external individual would not. So I think there's a lot you can do to gain a lot of experience, but then also reduce those costs that are gonna come with those things. And so I think there's things that can happen on both sides. I'd love to see the future of student affairs move in that direction and the future of institutions really to move in that direction.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:15]: And as we're talking about the future, in an ideal world, what does our profession need to do to thrive towards the future?

Melissa Manuel [00:31:22]: I I'm gonna bring it back to, I think, a a word that I probably said too much, but collaboration. And I think that comes with more research into what we can do better, more research into our stakeholders, and more reading of research and ideas outside of our own regions. So for example, I am doing my PhD in the States right now, and I do recognize I am doing it in United States, and therefore, it is an American type of model that I'm looking at. But there's so much great research that's coming out from other regions and countries that are doing things differently. And what I have actually come back to my institution about is to say, we need to use that a little bit more. And really, I think a lot of the student affairs degrees that are coming out really should take more of a holistic look at the research that is in other areas. It may not be applicable, but it might just be that light bulb to say, wow, you know, we could do it like that or maybe that's an idea we could backpack it and change it in some way. So really again coming more into that globalization type of sphere because again we're gonna have international students from all over anyway and employees are moving all over.

Melissa Manuel [00:32:15]: And again just building that collaborative, I think, environment for wanting to do a better job and really learning to change maybe a little bit more quickly is what I think we need to be able to thrive as an industry and as a profession.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:27]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:33]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a lot of things happening in NASPA. The NASPA strategies conference provides student affairs professionals with the knowledge and skills to effectively address collegiate alcohol and drug misuse prevention, mental health, sexual violence prevention and response peer education and well-being through a variety of comprehensive and integrative approaches. Registration is now open for the 2025 NASPA Strategies Conference, which is happening January 16th through January 18th in Boston, Massachusetts. In Boston, Massachusetts. Early registration deadline is closing on October 29th. So you still have time to register for this amazing conference and save some money along the way. This will be an amazing conference for anyone that is interested in alcohol and other drugs, mental health, peer education, sexual violence prevention, and more.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:27]: I highly encourage you to check it out on the NASPA website. The 2025 NASPA Symposium on Military Connected Students is the association premier event designed for student affairs practitioners supporting military connected students. The symposium is your exclusive opportunity to share evidence based practices from your campus or organization. You can learn from leading researchers in the field and engage with other professionals committed to supporting military connected students. This is a 3 day symposium which features keynote speakers, keynote sessions, research policy and best practice presentations and workshop style sessions to help campus professionals develop or enhance their programming and services for military connected students. This symposium is happening on February 18th to February 20th in Las Vegas, Nevada. Early registration closes on December 16, 2024. You can find out more on the NASPA website.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:23]: The fall 2024 issue of Leadership Exchange is available, and this issue is focused entirely on democracy

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:27]: on campus. Throughout the entire issue, you're going to find strategies to cultivate active and engaged citizens. There's a number of amazing articles from people all over the country that will open your eyes to ways in which you can engage students on your own campus as we enter into the final weeks of a very busy fall season, especially in regard to democracy on campus. I highly encourage you to check it out. You can go under publications on the NASPA website to find the Leadership Exchange and be able to read the articles for yourself or share it with another colleague. It is October and that means it is careers in student affairs month. And throughout this month, there have been a number of opportunities, events that are geared toward not only providing you with a good glimpse on our profession, but also to encourage others to consider our profession. We've got a number of great presentations still coming up this month.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:33]: These opportunities are free and you can register yourself or register some of your students for them. On October 16th, we have a presentation at 3 pm Eastern. We have a presentation called Pathways to Becoming an Assistant or Associate Vice President of student affairs. If you're eager to advance in leadership roles within student affairs, the panel will discuss the essential skills, experiences, and strategies necessary to transition successfully from a mid level position to an assistant or associate VP role. On October 22nd, navigating the challenges of being a new professional in student affairs. In this informative session, you can join the mid level administration and new professional and graduate student steering committee to talk about the challenges, opportunities, and strategies for navigating the challenges faced in navigating the field as a new professional or graduate student. On October 24th, tap in and turn me up. Learn more about careers and student affairs in this session.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:35]: It is, this session is designed exclusively for undergraduate students interested in the profession of student affairs. If you've got undergraduate students at your own campus that are interested in our profession, this is the session for your students to take advantage of. Also on October 24th, we'll be having a social. The NASPA CSAM social is an informal event space for participants that connect with other new professionals and graduate student members and explore connections that bring together the field of student affairs. And then finally, October 30th, 2024, state of student affairs, a conversation with NASPA president, Doctor. Amelia Pardell and NASPA board chair, Chair Doctor. Ana Gonzalez for a discussion on the current state of student affairs, as well as the future of the field from the perspective of association leadership. I hope you'll be able to take advantage of some of these different sessions and learn about our profession, learn about ways in which you can engage further in our profession and get other people engaged in our profession.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:36]: Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association, and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:01]: Chris, thank you so much for sharing with us what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Melissa, we are with our lightning round now. I have 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. Ready to go? Yes. Alright. Question 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Melissa Manuel [00:39:18]: Born to be wild.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:19]: Number 2. When you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Melissa Manuel [00:39:22]: Not just an actress, but a famous actress.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:25]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Melissa Manuel [00:39:28]: Oh, one of the deans at my previous institution.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:30]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Melissa Manuel [00:39:33]: JSARP, of course.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:34]: Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Melissa Manuel [00:39:37]: I actually don't watch TV, but if I did have to choose something to binge, I would probably go back to old and faithful Friends.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:44]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Melissa Manuel [00:39:48]: Absolutely. The Huberman Lab.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:49]: And finally, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional?

Melissa Manuel [00:39:53]: To all the individuals that I've worked with over the years, everybody has made an impact in my life and then therefore into student affairs in general. So thank you to my entire holistic experience. And, Melissa, if anyone would like to connect with you after the show,

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:03]: how can they find you? You can find me on LinkedIn if you

Melissa Manuel [00:40:09]: search Melissa Manuel. You'll see all the history of me working in the Arabian Gulf. I'm always open for a chat. I love connecting with colleagues, with peers, with mentors. Anybody really that wants to chat almost about anything, always there. And you can also contact me via email at melissa dotmanual@outlook.com.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:27]: Melissa, thank you so so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Melissa Manuel [00:40:30]: Thank you very much for having me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:36]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:14]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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Navigating the Past, Present, and Future with Kamakshi Velamuri In the latest episode of SA Voices from the Field hosts Dr. Jill Creighton spoke with Kamakshi Velamuri, a rising senior at North Carolina University (NCCU) who aspires to pursue a career in student affairs. The episode, rich with personal stories and professional insights, explores the challenges, triumphs, and future aspirations for higher education professionals. This blog post delves into the key themes discussed during this insightful conversation.

Navigating Educational and Career Paths Kamakshi’s journey into student affairs began with a keen interest in education reform. Initially aspiring to become a teacher, her direction shifted toward becoming an educational consultant and eventually focusing on student affairs. The consistency in her passion for education reform has guided her through these transitions and solidified her commitment to creating a positive impact within the higher education system.

Addressing Challenges in Student Affairs Kamakshi articulated several key challenges in student affairs:

Curriculum Issues:

Standardized testing, GPA concerns, and outdated curriculums need reform. * Staff and Faculty Challenges:

Overwork, insufficient staffing, resource constraints, and underpayment are prevalent issues. * Wage Gap and Economic Challenges:

Dr. Jill Creighton emphasized the wage gap in the student affairs profession and the anticipated impact of upcoming federal overtime laws.

These challenges underscore the need for systemic changes to ensure well-being and fair compensation for all professionals in the field.

The Importance of Student Support Systems Kamakshi shared her experiences as a first-generation Asian Indian female student at an HBCU. She discussed the cultural and familial expectations she navigated while pursuing a non-STEM career. Her story highlights the importance of support systems for nontraditional students who face unique challenges. She highlighted experiences of microaggressions and emphasized the role of diversity and inclusion departments, counseling centers, and peer mentoring groups in providing support.

Reflecting on the History and Future of Student Affairs When discussing the broader scope of student affairs, Kamakshi and the hosts reflected on the importance of learning from the past while addressing ongoing and future concerns. The profession has seen improved collaboration among staff and faculty, leading to better support for students. However, Kamakshi emphasized the necessity of continuous and structured efforts for progress and adaptation.

Shaping the Future: Kamakshi’s Vision Kamakshi’s vision for the future of student affairs involves intellectual and practical reform. She advocates for stronger collaboration between student affairs and academic affairs and calls for practical life skills education beyond traditional academics. The need to address economic challenges, mental health issues, and basic needs like housing affordability is crucial for the well-being of contemporary college students.

Building Systemic Change Together The conversation concluded with Kamakshi’s optimistic outlook on long-term systemic change. Dr. Jill Creighton echoed this sentiment, quoting an African proverb: "If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together." This mantra highlights the collective effort required to bring about meaningful change.

The Lightning Round: Getting to Know Kamakshi To showcase the lighter side of their guest, Dr. Jill Creighton led Kamakshi Velamuri through a rapid-fire "lightning round”:

Entrance Music for a Keynote:

"This Girl is on Fire" by Alicia Keys * Childhood Dream:

To be a kind, influential person * Most Influential Mentor:

Miss Lauren, a board member * Essential Student Affairs Read:

None specifically, as she is not keen on reading * Recent TV Show Binge:

Occasionally "The Office" for fun * Favorite Podcast:

Enjoys yoga, meditation, and nonprofit reform podcasts * Shout-outs:

To herself for reaching her current position and to NASPA professionals for their support and respect

These questions offered a glimpse into Kamakshi's personality, hobbies, and the influences that have shaped her journey so far.

Connect with Kamakshi Listeners inspired by Kamakshi's journey can reach out to her via email at kvelamuri4@gmail.com, kvelamur@eagles.nccu.edu, or connect with her on LinkedIn.

Final Thoughts This episode of "Dads with Daughters" offers valuable insights into the challenges and future of student affairs through the lens of a passionate and driven young professional. Kamakshi Velamuri’s story is a testament to the power of perseverance, support systems, and collective effort in shaping the future of higher education.

About our guest

Kamakshi Velamuri is a rising senior at North Carolina Central University (NCCU), majoring in Interdisciplinary Studies. She founded an education nonprofit in high school to advocate for meaningful reform in the education system. Kamakshi plans to pursue a master’s in Higher Education Administration to become a student affairs professional. As a first-generation student leader, Kamakshi brings a unique perspective to the world. Her passion and focus is on driving positive change in education reform. TRANSCRIPT (Unedited transcript created through Castmagic)

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: KamakshiWelcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on Essay Voices, I'm thrilled to feature an undergraduate student, Kamakshi Velamuri is a rising senior at North Carolina University or NCCU, majoring in interdisciplinary studies. She founded an education nonprofit in high school to advocate for meaningful reform in the education system. Kamakshi plans to pursue a master's in higher ed to become a student affairs professional. As a first generation student leader, Kamakji brings a unique perspective to the world. Her passion and focus is on driving positive change in education reform. Kamakshi, welcome to essay voices from the field.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:00:55]: Thank you for the welcome. I'm excited.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:56]:

You're welcome. Welcome to SA Voices from the Field.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:00:59]: Thank you for the welcome. I'm excited.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:01]: You are one of our, I think, maybe only undergraduate students to appear on the podcast or maybe 1st or second. You're also enough, and you've spent quite a bit of time growing into a future career in student affairs. So you're the perfect person to have on for the season of the past, present, and future of student affairs. Normally, we kick off our episodes by asking our guests how they got to their current professional seat. But since you're an aspiring student affairs professional, I'm hoping you can talk about your undergraduate journey and how you've arrived at the decision that the student affairs profession is where you wanna be.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:01:33]: Definitely. So my journey has actually started since elementary. It's kind of crazy how that goes back to. But I originally wanted to become a teacher since I've seen amazing teachers, of course, bad teachers too, but focusing on the positive side, they've inspired me. And since then to high school, I was on that mindset of being a teacher until I moved or transitioned into education law or that kind of career vibe. And then I got to college with all hopes of getting into law school after graduation. But I was told by my career counselor that I should rather be an educational consultant. So long story short, I did a reflection and realized, yes, I wanted to be all these different roles.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:02:15]: But at the end of the day, they all had a common point, which was education system as a whole. So I was like, so why did I want to do education system keeping those roles aside? And that's when I realized it's all about education reform and how I'm personally the type of person. I'm not like since I had to deal with it, everybody has to deal with it. So I wanted to make sure if I struggled that the next generation did not have to struggle, and then I voice the concerns because everybody can stay complaining, but who is actually putting in the work to resolve these issues? And that's the thing that motivated me into getting student affairs in specific because I felt like with student affairs in specific, I would have the opportunity to be a point of contact in a way with my advising role or some kind of role to a point where I work with students, staff, and faculty, and I can influence a group of a collective of people. And then if I were to go for advocacy or reform to any kind of administration, I have a backup of people that can come work with me and advocate together. Because I feel like the more people that join in, the louder the voice is and the more clear it is to the administration of the importance in making the decision or changing the system, in other words. So I felt like student affairs could be a platform or an industry I could use to kind of really get those people to work together on the change. Because I know if I go by myself and say this is wrong, he won't listen to me.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:03:46]: They need research. They need backup and people to be collectively saying that this is a concern. So that's why I feel like student affairs was the best place to still do reform, because I could do reform in whatever industry, but I chose this would be more of a not just easy, but, like, a productive way to make change while I enjoy it. Because as a student myself, since middle school, I've always been in leadership roles, SGA, whatever it could be. So I enjoy that stuff. I enjoy product management, project management, event planning, pretty much everything that specifically student affairs entitles into. And then as I discovered this, I realized I started a nonprofit in high school, but that also was also education reform. So it kind of, like, all connected together, how everything was working.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:04:35]: And, of course, as I was in college and realized this dream, I was already working with the office of vice chancellor at our campus. So, fortunately, the vice chancellor of our campus is the liaison for NASPA. And, generally, my mentor for NASPA, NUF program, is also part of the Office of Vice Chancellor. So I kinda worked with all of them in joining it and then built my connections and to make it more of a reality. So that's kinda my journey into figuring out what this is.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:06]: I think you may have figured out quite a bit earlier than a lot of us that student affairs was a viable career path for you with what makes you passionate and how you want to affect systems for students. Now the reasons may sound similar across time for student affairs professionals about why we come into the field. We're generally a group of people who are designing experiences for students with the hopes that we're impacting positive change or creating support systems or helping people exercise critical thinking skills or what have you, you know, that co curricular experience. So what part of student affairs are you hoping to center into as you begin your journey?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:05:42]: So it totally depends on time because, like, you can see since middle school to now, it kinda changed. I always have plans. One thing about me people can tell you about that know me is I'm all about planning and organizing and actually overplanning. So I'm ready to take career anything that involves event planning, programming, and a direct contact with students. But I want to make sure that, yes, they're having fun through events, but they're also getting purposeful outcomes and objectives. So that's why even when I plan programming that it kind of align, actually has objectives, like a lesson or something that they can take away. Even if it's a fun event, they take away social wellness or something of that sort. So I feel like that kind of work can give me a fun, exciting, and something that I'm good at and I enjoy doing, but also can impact the students.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:06:34]: So I feel like anything event planning, so maybe, I mean, every department has event planning. I personally worked with the Seal of our campus, Student Engagement Leadership Department, and I've worked with different departments within that. Student Orgs, I've always, I'm part of Through Student Orgs myself as a leader. So I feel like that kind of journey is the start of my career because I've been in it, and I can just expand more on, like, the knowledge of it and eventually get up to whatever role it takes me to. But no matter what I do, I wanna involve learning or advocacy, but in a fun way because students like fun. I like lessons. How do we combine them is my mission.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:14]: As a current student, what types of challenges are you and your peers currently facing that you wanna be the problem solver for as you come into the profession?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:07:23]: So when I did choose to come to this profession, I already decided there were some concerns that I definitely wanna take place in or advocating for. And one of it is really just curriculum. I know that it's not easy to work on, but for me, education reform meant student issues with standardized testing, GPA, outdated curriculum, and then staff and faculty issues. As I got into NASBA, and like just in general, some other higher education as a whole, I realized staff and faculty are the point of contact for students and parents, and they're blamed for anything and everything sometimes that are not even under their control because administrators or the government made those rules. But I feel like staff and faculty issues with overworking, understaffed, under resourced, underfunded. These kind of issues are important. Also, underpaid. That's one thing.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:08:16]: We're all in here for passion because I feel like the amount of wage issues we have is kind of concerning. And then just in general, wellness as a whole, I don't feel I feel like we try to prioritize wellness, especially last few years, but there's more to go into it. And sometimes, like, we try to find work life balance or wellness as a whole, but that's not realistic. So also, like, that learning, not just for students, but for staff and faculty so that, there's more resources for them and everyone. But personally, one thing I care about is nutrition. I feel like campus foods could be better. There's a lot of issues with it. I tried doing a research project, it never worked out, but I would probably do that for my master's or PhD, who knows, which is my goals.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:09:01]: But I know there's a lot of other issues with diversity inclusion, title 9, safety, accessibility to nontraditional students. One of the main populations I wanna serve is nontraditional students because we always forget that they're students from different cultural, economic, religious backgrounds, and to serve all of them is really important. People come from different backgrounds. How can you accommodate everyone is important. So I know that's a lot, and sometimes people tell me you're very unrealistic with abolishing standardized testing, abolishing GPA or outdated curriculum. And I'm like, probably I mean, yes, it's probably, like, unrealistic for now. But eventually, I know that it's a process or a journey that I could reach. And I'm just at the start of my journey, so there's a long time to achieve this.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:50]: You're a future VPSA in the making. You've got long range goals. And if you're going to change systems, it takes time. We have a colleague, I would say a late colleague actually, who loved the quote, if you want to go far, go together. If you want to go fast, go alone. It's an African proverb. And that was said often by Mary Anita Nesbitt, who was a colleague of mine at Washington State University. And she really lived that through her work, and that is something I hear you're working towards.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:18]: So I I like to see those threads tugged on, by multiple people across space and time. And as you look forward to that, how are you approaching the journey into possible master's programs?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:10:29]: So like I said, I'm a huge planner. So I've already started my planning, like, long time ago. But event starting this summer, I've gotten more serious about it with my master's planning so that I could apply. December is the deadline for a lot of programs. So kind of researching what programs are there and what meets my needs. One thing about me with master's planning or anything, I'm also, like, the type of person that thinks as much as a program or even a job recruits me, I'm also getting into that program. So, I mean, my needs also met. So I have some requirements for myself of, like, choosing between in person or online programs, if I should do graduate assistantship jobs or anything of that sort.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:11:09]: So there's a lot of options. But most importantly, I feel like I wanna figure out what are the ethics, values, and purpose of each of these programs in different institutions? Because I understand that not my whole, like, handbook of myself of ethics values could align with the institution's policies. But at least them understanding and accepting or respecting my perspective is important to me, because I don't wanna get to a space and have negative trauma or any kind of concerns. So I wanna prevent that before I get there. So in that sense, also realizing that. So I'm in the journey of, like, planning, figuring out what requirements or financial requirements. I'm a 1st generation student. So also, like, making sure that I understand what I'm doing, and I'm doing this kind of, like, alone, you know, most first gen students.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:11:57]: So kind of figuring that out. And kind of the main thing I'm doing right now is scheduling a meeting with different people within an institution. I felt like with the same point I just started off with. I need to meet with an admission or HR office, a professor, a student, and alum for each institution I want to go to, so that I get different perspectives of living at an institution. Sometimes I might not be able to do that for every institution, but my hope is to do that so I can get make the best decision. But I have chosen top 3 universities I'll definitely apply that I know of, so I'm ready for it. And I feel like it's important that I take this step in my higher education, especially as a 1st year student, because just starting undergrad itself is big deal. And then continuing to master's program is a whole another level of a challenge.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:12:49]: So I feel like there's gonna be challenges coming in between with the background I come from and kind of making sure everybody understands that or just that me sticking still and strong on my words and my needs. So there will be challenges, but I'm ready for everything, I guess. And that's kinda like where I'm at with master's program. And, really, me as an individual, I feel like no matter what I choose, I'm an overthinker, but I also wanna make sure I'm actually planned and prepared because I don't wanna get into something and struggle to a point. I'm I mean, I would struggle, but at least I wanna be ready for it or prepared for it, which is why I kind of am in the plans.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:32]: You mentioned that your background is having an influence on your selection process. Would you mind sharing some of your background with our listeners?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:13:40]: Definitely. So there's a lot of background identities I take myself pride in or perspective in. So one of which is being an Asian and specifically Indian, and that brings a huge influence as to my education, my lifestyle, and everything. And I say that to say because my whole family of 1 and also my gender as a female. Majority of females within India or Asia are not still working or not still studying, if that makes sense. So even my family has a background. Pretty much my mom and pretty every woman from last generations have not studied or graduated or anything of that sort. They got married early on and or housewives, which I support.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:14:26]: Everybody's journey is different, but they weren't given the option. So for me, I have the option or that which I'm grateful for. Some of this is like, oh, it's a basic need to have education. But for me, sometimes, for some people coming from different backgrounds, more than a need, it's us getting that, like, individual morality from our family and support, which I appreciate my family for. But that also gives me a huge challenge or responsibility to keep my word in that education past. But, again, the identity of being an Asian and Indian as a female that, like, statistics from how it was from past to now and how you want to be the change maker in your in, area is important. Being a 1st gen student, is also crazy because you have no support from family, so you kinda have to freestyle everything. Lot of, wood statistics again.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:15:21]: I feel like, a lot of first and students are overachievers. They wanna make sure everything's perfect. They wanna do everything they can to get acceptance from their community, their family, and everything of that sort. So it's a challenge, but I feel like those identities involve a lot of hard work. And I'm willing to put my time and effort into it, but I feel like these are really significant. My identities with my gender roles within my community of being an Indian or Asian, and also with the subject I chose. It's kind of irregular within my background to choose education system, like work or career within the education system. Everybody, we know the stereotype, Asians go to STEM.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:16:04]: And I'm fully opposed to that. But again, that's depending on the choice of people. But I want to break break those stigmas, stereotypes, microaggressions, or everything and prove people wrong that I could still make it in life, in other words, or grow without being in a STEM major, without doing the specific pathway, an individual creative for me, whereas I have to create my own pathway, if that makes sense. So my identity has given me so much influence onto what I should do, how I should lead my life and that in a positive way, but it comes with a lot of challenges. So it's like you gotta balance it out and choose what's best for you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:46]: And you chose to attend an HBCU for your undergraduate experience to receive the support and care that you needed as a person of color in the higher education community, as a first gen student. What are some of the things that your institution has done exceptionally well to ensure that you have that support safety net in place as you move through your undergraduate career.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:17:06]: Definitely. So that's one of the greatest thing I've specifically experienced last few years in a good and bad way, but the bad way has told me the resources I've on campus. So I had to deal with the concern on campus and I had to report it. And then I got the full support from my diversity and inclusion department on campus. They were very supportive and they gave me the resources I needed, counseling center, and so much more. So I feel like, yes, there won't be, like, a full not sure what the word is, but, like, a whole red carpet pathway of welcome. There will be challenges and issues. I had to face an offensive statement, a body shaming, and a racial slur on a HBCU.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:17:49]: But still I made it through with the support, with staff and faculty. So I was directed to the resources we had. And most importantly, sometimes it's not really the resources on campus, but the people you meet on campus that you connect with. There's a lot of peer mentoring groups and peer support, and I personally support a lot of my peers whenever they have these kind of challenges, and they're always there for me. One of the biggest reasons were I had to figure out this whole journey of why am I falling into these issues or stuff like that. And then these friends, I guess. I can't even believe that they're my friends because if you think about my past to now, I wouldn't assume that this would have gone this way. But I feel like at the end of the day, it's a well put out book.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:18:36]: It has a beginning and end conclusion, which is still continuing, like, as a chapters of life. But I feel like it's coming together already. So it's just we have resources, but sometimes it's just next to you, and you gotta realize the people that are near you could also be a resource. It does not necessarily have to be a department.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:56]: As we get older as a generation of student affairs professionals, we are farther and farther away from the present day student experience in terms of how it reflected our own experience. And it's our job to change our mindsets with new generations of students and different needs and different sets of expectations and all of those things. What would you like current student affairs professionals to know about the present day college experience, especially for students in that kind of average 18 to 25 year old range that maybe we're not seeing or not thinking about or you wish we thought about more?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:19:30]: This is a clear answer for me, and I'm excited to share this because it's a problem, honestly, that I wish a lot of staff and faculty realize, it's the collaboration I wish, the bridge between student affairs and academic affairs that I wish is not broken and that we can kind of combine together for collaboration. And I've always discussed about it and the way it impacts students. Because I feel like with students, especially student leaders as a whole, we have a lot of stuff on our plate and we're passionate about student leadership to a point. We're part of 1,000 student orgs, extracurriculars. Most of us do 2 to 3 jobs and a lot of other things apart from academics. Ideally, from past and history, from what I've heard, everybody was like, education come in and out of class, and that is all you gotta do for the degree, which is still the reality of getting a degree. But college life is more than just getting that degree. It's experiencing life as a part of college life.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:20:32]: I felt like in past, it was like when you're in college or when you're in just like your education era, it was more of education was your life. Now people have realized with the 8 dimensions of wellness, it's reality of wellness or life as a whole. There's more to life than education. It's part of your life. It's not your life. And so I wish staff and faculty realize the struggle that students are going through in balancing because they're still students. Sometimes staff forget, oh, they're adults. They gotta figure it out.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:21:03]: But it the reality is, yes, we're trying to figure it out. We're still trying to figure it out. Most of the adults that have graduated are still trying to figure it out and change stuff, their careers, or anything in a minute. So them expecting us to have our life together once we get to college because we're adults is kind of unrealistic because we have to go through some issues with maybe family emergencies or just in general life as a whole in balancing social life, extracurriculars, and how this generation is in a competition. Of course, every generation is it. But like for me, I feel like because of the economic state, we're trying to get jobs, we're trying to live because in past, you guys could afford a house to buy a house. Now we can't afford to rent a house. That says a lot.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:21:50]: And us, we want to make sure that we gain as much experience as possible to get a job that can pay for basic needs, because unfortunately, I feel like a lot of students can't even meet the basic needs because of the economic state. And I wish staff and faculty could understand that as we're dealing with this concern, because it's important that, yes, we have academics, but can we actually have a practical life skills and actually learn that there's more to life than this course and the GPA? Because, yes, this is important, but a number does not define my talent in education. Because outside that classroom, I'm a talented artist. I'm a talented professional. I'm part of 5 orgs. I do this, this, that. And I got 3 awards. And this is me personally.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:22:36]: But, again, a lot of students did have to deal with this, and some of them had to quit a lot of their passions just so they they could get that degree. And was it worth it? Some of them even had to cheat or plagiarize just so they could get a degree. And so it's like, is it worth a degree if you're cheating and just doing something just for the sake of societal expectation of getting the best grade when you can do what you like while also knowing that education is just part of life and also enjoying life as a whole with campus life, which is where student affairs comes into place. And just the fact that, like, with my first point of the bridge between student affairs and academic affairs, I feel like sometimes there's a fight between them. It's like not student affairs and academic affairs, student affairs versus academic affairs. Like, both of those are important. I mean, both divisions are important. But I feel like academic affairs thinks or assume sometimes that student affairs is just giving away random stuff, like gifts and and getting students to do parties and stuff.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:23:40]: But we're more than that. We have a lot of resources we're providing and providing them life. And then academic affairs, as important as doing all this, you're coming to campus paying 1,000 of dollars just for that degree. So it's I'm not saying academics is not important, but I wish that we could collaborate as professionals together with those 2 deficient to make it better for the students. Students already have to go through a lot of other things, especially with the economic state, the journey that they have to go through to just have some basic need. I don't know if that makes sense. I know it was kind of a lot, but it's comes from my experience and my peers. And I just feel like all these concerns that student go through causes a lot of student suicide, student mental health issues, and so much more.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:24:28]: And still, I want to make sure, yes, this sounds like us complaining, but we're complaining for a reason because we've seen our peers struggle through it, and we're barely surviving.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:38]: I think advocating for your needs is not a complaint. Advocating for your needs is what helps us understand what it is that student affairs needs to be doing the same and differently in order to support your journey. That's what we're here to do is to help you develop into a fully functioning member of society as you move across the stage, get your diploma, and then head into the working world wherever that might be. And it is a different economic environment right now than it was 10 years ago, 20 years ago. I do wanna say though, you mentioned that quote unquote you all can afford to buy a house. I think that's only true for, like, baby gen xers and baby boomers. And right now, you know, a lot of millennials are struggling with that too. And I think it's important for our gen z students and young professional colleagues to understand that that is a problem that's been plaguing us for quite a while.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:23]: And so I think that economic perspective is also something that the student affairs profession really is going to need to come to terms with pretty soon here. The federal overtime laws, I think, are gonna make an impact on how things change for us. But I think more often than not, we have a wage gap in the profession, and that's just something that I know everyone is trying to figure out how to tackle. And I don't know that any of us have done it well or right yet, but it's gotta be something that we reckon with as a field. So that leads me right into our theme questions for the season. So, Kamaakji, I have 3 questions for you on the past, present, and future. So on the past, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should either continue to carry forward or we really need to let go of?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:26:08]: So I have a long answer, but I'll keep it short. I feel like with any system, but focusing on educational system, sometimes it's build with pillars with that foundation. So I wish people realize that whenever we got some kind of new thing, that they don't just concentrate on that, but go back and actually resolve one concern. Because I feel like with any system, there's been back to back issues. And so people, whatever is a current issue, they're focusing on that, doing whatever they couldn't to resolve it, but realize the past issue has never been resolved. So I feel like with the history, I wish there's a change in terms of how people realize that, yes, there's a lot of issues, but make sure when you start a project, you finish that concern before you get to another concern kind of thing. So let's say again, as an example, DEI and Title IX. If there's an issue with DEI this year, the Title IX next year, next year people are forgetting all the work they've done with DEI and starting on title 9, but this has never resolved.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:27:09]: So I feel like it's important to stick on one thing, resolve it instead of just building so many blocks and never resolving none of them. It's important to go back and realize we need to rebuild all this because we're renovating, but we actually have to, like, rebuild everything. There's no foundation. There's just pillars.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:30]: Moving into the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:27:36]: I feel like as much as collaboration can be improved, it has been better for the current student affairs journey because the way that we're promoting professional development for staff faculty to support the students then at end of the day is really important with NASPA and many other orgs. So I feel like that's the best thing that's happening in student affairs, the collaboration and the willingness to support staff and faculty as much as we can. Because at the end of the day, they're the point of contact for students. If they're not well, how are the students gonna be well and get the support they need? So I feel like the current state it could be better, but it's definitely been better than in past.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:15]: And looking towards the future, in an ideal world, what does the field need to do to thrive towards our future?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:28:21]: I mentioned with past. I feel like the field needs to get to a conclusion to build collaboration so that they can definitely rebuild the structure of student affairs in a way where it actually is gonna work, and it has a foundation and pillars where everything is gonna be solid.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:42]: So, Kamakshi, is there anything else that you'd like to share on the past, present, and future of the profession?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:28:47]: Well, if I could, I'll share forever and talk with you for hours, but with time's sake. In conclusion, I feel like we had a great conversation, and it's important to talk about this because there's change every day, and we gotta adapt and accommodate the needs of the current generation or be more of current. And so I wish there is more work towards it. I know we are working towards it, but I just wanna make sure with my work that it's definitely a continuous journey of consistency in growth for the collective, and nobody's doing it for themselves. It's, at the end of the day, benefit in the growth of the system.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:28]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:34]: Thanks, Joe. So excited to be back in the NASPA world. Today, I want to start off by congratulating our 2025 pillars of the profession. Each year, the NASPA Foundation recognizes exceptional members of the student affairs and higher education community through the pillars of the profession award, one of the foundation's highest honors. The award comes from you, our members and supporters, as a way to recognize your fellow colleagues who represent outstanding contributions to our field and our organization. Individuals receiving honors this year are Kevin Kruger receiving the 2025 John L Blackburn distinguished pillar of the profession award and the following individuals receiving the 2025 NASPA foundation pillar of the profession. Mordecai Ian Brownlee, Ainsley Carey, Zduy B. Chu, Philip Covington, Frank Cuevas, Jon Dooley, Jacinda M. Félix Haro, Leanna Fenenburg, Anne G. Flaherty, Ann M. Gansemer-Topf, Cynthia L. Hernandez, Mylon J. Kirsky, Ryan Lombardi, Roger Ludeman, Keegan Nichols, Patty Perillo, Frank Ross, Alvin Sturdivant, Rameen Talesh, and Derek Vergara. I am so excited to be able to welcome all of these deserving individuals to the pillars of the profession. And you have an opportunity to be able to celebrate the 2025 pillars of the profession with a donation to the NASPA Foundation in their honor. Take a moment to say thank you to these amazing professionals. You can donate online and learn more about the foundation's pillar class.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:14]: There's still time to sign up for a new short course, campus Crisis Management in Times of Chaos. This course starts online September 23rd and goes through October 25th. You can either register by yourself or for you and a team to acquire the competencies and knowledge that will help you support your students when crisis situations arise. The course will give a broad overview of how student affairs professionals can best support their students and campus during crisis situations. Topics will include foundations of crisis management, crisis management teams, or emergency management teams, the creation of crisis management plans, communications during times of crisis, recovery following an incident, and relationships across the institution and with outside agencies. Registration is still open, and you can sign up up to the live session start of September 23rd. So I highly encourage you to look internally at your own institution for ways to be able to engage your own campus in some amazing dialogues that will help your campus to be ready in times of crisis. I know I've talked about it in the past, and there are always opportunities to be able to give back to the NASPA family and community.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:28]: And one way is through the NASPA journal board. There are a number of opportunities that are currently open for individuals to be able to get involved in our NASPA journal board. Some available opportunities include being an editorial board member or a new professional and graduate student review board member for the Journal of Student Affairs Research and Practice, an editorial board member, or a new professional and graduate student review board member for the Journal of Women and Gender in Higher Education or an editorial board member for the Journal of First Generation Student Success. If any of these sound interesting to you, I highly encourage you to apply for these opportunities. You can find out more on the NASPA website. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways, because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:42]: And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:37]: Chris, thank you so much for continuing to share with us what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Kamachi, we have reached our lightning round. So I have 7 questions for you to answer in about 90 seconds. You ready to roll?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:34:49]: I'll try my best.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:50]: Alright. Number 1, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:34:55]: This Girl is on Fire.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:57]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:35:02]: I just wanted to be a kind person that had an influence on people just like I was as a child.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:08]: Number 3. Who's your most influential professional mentor?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:35:11]: Oh, I got a list of 1,000 people, but I got to say huge shout out to miss Lauren. She was enough board member, and she's one of my best mentors currently.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:22]: Alright. Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:35:26]: Honestly, I'm not a reading person as much, so I don't have anything as of now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:30]: Number 5, the best TV show you've binged lately.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:35:33]: I'm not watching TV shows. If I were to, it's really like my native language. But I can say I binge on Office at times just for fun because you always need that fun with chaos happening.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:45]: That comfort show. Yeah. Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:35:50]: I don't listen to podcast again as much, but if I do, sometimes my advisers suggest some of these yoga meditation podcasts, so I love to, like, just tune into those. But also, there's been, like, a podcast about reform and nonprofits, which is my kind of industry, so I listen to those too.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:09]: And finally, number 7. Any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:36:13]: Oh, shout out to myself. I mean, I've not expected myself to be in this stage, and I feel like a lot of people think this is selfish, but it's important to be selfish for yourself. It's more of self love and care. So I shout out myself for getting to the stage. Like you said, I'm kind of proud of myself for being here today to be part of a NASPA, National Association, and working with all these professionals and the fact that they respect and value me. Yes. I'm an undergraduate student and maybe like that societal normals age and everything changes. But, like, again, the respect I get is really appreciated.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:36:49]: So I'm proud of myself and a huge shout out to me, but also huge shout out to you for pulling this off and doing great stuff. Now this is our first time meeting, but this has been a great pleasure talking with you. And I really appreciate how you led this and all the NASPA professionals, or not just NASPA, everybody, because we're trying our best. I know it's not gonna happen in one day, but we're making it through. And that's a shot at itself.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:12]: It's been a joy to listen to your perspective. And I am very much looking forward to watching your rise in the profession over the next several years. And if anyone would like to connect with you after the show airs, how can they find you?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:37:24]: So my emails, I'll say to, is kvelamuri4@gmail.com or kvelamur@eagles.nccu.edu . Eagle pride again. And then you can also find me on LinkedIn with my name, Kamakshi Velamuri, kamakshivelamuri. Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:52]: Kamakshi, thank you so much for sharing your voices with us today.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:37:56]: Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:01]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:43]: Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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Artificial Intelligence (AI) is rapidly reshaping various sectors, and academia is no exception. In a recent episode of the SA Voices From the Field podcast, hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton, guest Dr. Daniel Weisglass shared his expert insights on the role, challenges, and potential of AI in higher education. Dr. Weisglass, an assistant professor of philosophy at Duke Kunshan University, delves into academic integrity, student affairs, and the future landscape of education with a particular focus on AI tools.

Rethinking Academic Assessments At the heart of the discussion is the need for rethinking traditional academic assessments in light of AI advancements. Dr. Daniel Weisglass emphasizes the importance of critically evaluating the types of assignments given to students. He suggests that faculty members collaborate closely with academic integrity units to adapt their methodologies in response to the changing academic environment.

AI, particularly generative models like GPT (Generative Pretrained Transformer), can produce seemingly original essays and content. This poses a significant challenge to traditional assessment techniques, which often rely on evaluating written assignments. Dr. Weisglass advocates for the adaptation of in-person assessments to maintain academic integrity. Such measures echo the early days of Google search usage when educators needed to adapt to a new tool that changed how students accessed information.

The Value of Teaching and Mentoring in Student Affairs Maintaining the historically valuable elements of student affairs is another critical point discussed by Dr. Weisglass. He underscores the importance of deep, meaningful connections and personal development in education. The role of mentoring and teaching in shaping students' experiences and growth remains as crucial as ever, despite the growing presence of AI in academia.

Dr. Weisglass suggests that while AI can support student affairs professionals by recognizing emotional patterns and raising alerts, it should not replace human interactions. The human aspect of teaching and mentoring is irreplaceable, and AI should serve as a supplementary tool rather than a substitute.

Addressing Modern Challenges in Student Affairs The current state of student affairs has seen an increased awareness and maintenance of campus cultures. Dr. Weisglass highlights the new challenges posed by AI-enabled academic and student conduct violations. With the advent of sophisticated AI tools, distinguishing between AI-generated and human-generated content becomes increasingly difficult.

To combat these challenges, Dr. Weisglass advocates for developing robust administrative standards for safety and security. He also highlights the necessity of continual responsiveness and adaptation to student needs. As student affairs professionals, it is essential to stay ahead of technological trends and ensure that the academic and personal growth of students is not compromised.

Preparing for the Future: Flexibility and Ethical AI Use Looking ahead, Dr. Weisglass envisions a future where student growth remains the primary focus, without leaning too heavily on a customer service-oriented approach. He emphasizes that flexibility, continual responsiveness, and reflective responses are key to effectively preparing students for a rapidly changing world.

Incorporating AI into education requires a thoughtful approach to designing prompts and assignments. The goal is to make use of AI tools, like GPT, to support the development of labor-intensive skills such as ethical analysis. Educators need to balance leveraging AI to aid the learning process while maintaining the integrity and authenticity of student work.

Embracing AI: Tools and Techniques Dr. Weisglass discusses various AI tools and their applications in higher education:

Predictive AI: This AI type forecasts trends and flags at-risk students based on data patterns, such as class attendance. It helps institutions take proactive measures in student support.
Generative AI: While capable of generating new content, generative AI raises concerns about academic integrity. This type of AI can fabricate information and compromise data privacy.
Gamma Tool and Copilot: Gamma converts Word documents into detailed PowerPoint presentations, aiding in educational settings. Copilot, part of the Office 365 suite, helps summarize emails and meetings, streamlining administrative tasks.
Cite.ai: This tool assists in generating literature reviews and finding specific articles within academic research, ensuring the accuracy and authenticity of data.

Dr. Weisglass also stresses the importance of ensuring data security agreements with AI tool providers or developing in-house models to safeguard student data.

Conclusion The insights shared by Dr. Daniel Weisglass underline the transformative potential of AI in higher education, along with its challenges. The integration of AI tools, such as GPT, must be approached with a balance of innovation and ethical considerations. By rethinking academic assessments and maintaining the human elements of teaching and mentoring, educators can harness AI's potential to enhance the educational experience while preserving the integrity and personal growth of students. As we navigate this evolving landscape, the role of AI in academia will continue to be a dynamic and critical area of exploration.

About our guest

Daniel Weissglass is an assistant professor of philosophy at Duke Kunshan University, a Sino-US Liberal Arts institution located in near Shanghai. His work focuses on the ethics of science, health, and technology - with a special interest in the use of artificial intelligence to meet health needs in low- and middle-income countries. He also works in various ways to help DKU make the most of AI as an educational tool, as well as assisting in the development of policies regarding their safe, effective, and ethical use. TRANSCRIPT (Unedited transcript created by Castmagic)

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Welcome back to a new episode of SA Voices from the Field, where today we will feature Doctor. Daniel Weissglass. Doctor. Weissglass is an assistant professor of philosophy at Duke Kunshan University, which is a Sino US liberal arts institution located near Shanghai, China. His work focuses on the ethics of science, health, and technology with a special interest in the use of artificial intelligence to meet health needs in low and middle income countries.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:49]: He also works in various ways to help DKU make the most of AI as an educational tool, as well as assisting in the development of policies regarding their safe, effective, and ethical use. So today's episode is gonna be focused on the use of AI in higher education. Daniel, welcome to student affairs voices from the field.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:01:06]: Thanks so much, Jill. Glad to be here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:08]: It's great to see you. Daniel and I have known each other for a couple years now, and we're coming to you from across massive time zone difference. I'm sitting here in the UK and Daniel's sitting over there in China. So I can see the sun setting on his end and the sun rising on mine.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:01:22]: There's maybe a metaphor, appropriate to the the topic of today's meeting about that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:26]: Oh, I'm excited to get into that. Daniel, you make your livelihood as a philosopher. And so I always like to ask our guests kind of how you got to your current seat, but we're speaking with you mainly today because of your burgeoning career in academia and artificial intelligence AI. So, yeah, tell us about how you got here.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:01:46]: Well, interestingly, I can kind of weave those 2 together. Actually, part of what brought me into philosophy was an interest in AI. Now this was back before the the big data science boom even. So what AI meant at the time was a very different concept, one that had more to do with replicating human capacities and building something human like or assisting human in those performance is and and less to do with something like the large scale statistics that we see today. And the questions I kept finding myself asking was, well, if we're gonna talk about replicating something like human intelligence, I need to know better what that is. So I went into study in the philosophy of mind, and I also double majored in psychology. And I think the interest I have had in AI throughout my career is part of what brought me to where I am at DKU. DKU, Duke of Kunshan University, where I work, is a very interdisciplinary institute.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:02:34]: It doesn't really follow traditional divisional or disciplinary divisions. We don't have departments. Right? We have these big, houses. I say for the audience, Gil, you know all of this. And when I presented my initial research presentation, it was actually about not artificial intelligence, but artificial emotion and the possibilities that might bring for things like moral control of AI. So I think this has been sort of a natural path for me. And then with the recent explosion in AI interest post large language models, the place for someone who can think critically and with some sort of baseline informative informedness about AI technologies, about the values that we have in using those technologies, has become more and more central to the mission of academic institutions worldwide. And I was very fortunate to find a community here that supports me pursuing that path.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:26]: You mentioned something that I've not heard in these conversations a lot, which is not artificial intelligence, but artificial emotion or the the mimicization of human emotion in AI. And typically, we're talking about AI ultimately being barely stupid because it's only as good as what we input into it. Talk to us a little bit more about that emotion component.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:03:47]: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. So there's a small literature on what's called synthetic emotion usually. And there are a couple of ways of understanding what that means. One is being able to respond to emotional cues of users appropriately. You can almost see this in chat gpt when it says, oh, I'm sorry. I made a mistake. Right? And that's important for a lot of reasons.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:04:07]: One being that people are more likely to maintain systems that apologize when they fail. This was an interesting set of studies on that. But what I was more interested in is systems that try to replicate the you might call input output mapping, the sort of function in the mathematical sense that human emotions have. So ideally, a system that is capable in this way would be able to, for instance, look at an image and identify the emotion that that image would produce in most viewers. So if it showed an image of a person in suffering, right, it would it would identify that this would produce sorrow or sympathy. And this is really important, this kind of input output mapping, to producing morally correct responses in some cases. Emotions play a huge role in how we make moral choices and how we decide to respond to morally loaded events. And so there's a hope that we can make artificial moral agents, is the term that gets thrown around in the in the literature, that would be able to adequately replicate these components of moral reasoning, which I think must include something like emotion, so that they can regulate themselves more effectively.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:05:10]: Now, presumably, we wouldn't want to take people out of the loop entirely. But if you don't ask them to regulate themselves based upon these basic presuppositions that we have captured in our emotional systems, you get behavior that can be very dangerous and and very much outside of what we call alignment. You get systems that are willing to lie, hate, steal, harass people, all of these things. And so the hope was and and what I was working on at the time, and it still is sort of on a back burner, is that synthetic emotion might be able to improve this, provide some sort of safety by allowing them to analyze allowing AI tools to analyze morally loaded instances in a way that's more similar to the way that humans do. There are a lot of challenges to that. But in context of something like an academic environment, this might involve something that's emotionally sensitive and responsive to student users, for instance, right? So imagine as we've been kicking around here the idea of an advisor bot. So you've got a first run chatbot that interacts with students. You don't just want the chatbot to be able to recognize the question and its meaning in a literal sense.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:06:11]: You might also want it to note certain emotional patterns that could emerge in the way students are responding. Right? You might want it to note that, the questions this person is asking and the way they're asking them as the semester goes on really seem to indicate that this the student's not doing so well. Right? And maybe it could raise a flag there. Now this would be a, you know, a much more complex system most likely than what we're dealing with in the near future, but that was the idea. And I think synthetic emotion is an under explored space in education in the same way that emotion in general, in pedagogical context and advising context is underplayed. Right? We focus so much on cognitive expertise. We sometimes forget that this is broadly speaking a care profession, and we underplay the importance of that sort of emotional intelligence and emotional engagement, I think.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:00]: For student affairs professionals, that's where we spend most of our time is working with students in that high EQ space, in that high empathy space. And the thought of having an AI bot to help us support that work is a really fascinating one. On my end, I'm teaching currently the technology module for masters in student affairs through NASPA and LUMSU University. And I just had my first lecture about a week and a half ago, and it was all about introducing student affairs professionals to user and AI tools. We're not talking about the technological side of machine learning and how we're feeding large language models and things like that. But really, what can these things do for us to help support our work? Because at the end of the day, when we're working with students, it's a human centered profession. And I don't believe any sort of technological replacement that can get us to a place where we don't need human interaction is the core of what we do in a university setting. I think that there's cognitive development that can happen through these bots or even quick answers.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:55]: But when you're having a really hard day, talking to a bot is probably not going to help you find a space of resilience or thriving. But we also have, I think, jumped ahead quite a lot. We're already speaking from a at least a novice perspective on AI. So I want us to back up a little bit to, just give some primer and basics for someone maybe who has heard of AI but has never tried using a large language model. Maybe they're using predictive AI and they don't know it. Maybe they're a little fearful of the tools that are out there because they don't know much about them. So let's start with the super basic, which is can you describe for us the difference between predictive versus generative AI?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:08:34]: So, I mean, the to some extent, the answer is in the name. So a predictive AI is focused on predicting. This might be making a sort of, like, quantitative prediction, right, where it says, you know, given recent trends in the financial market, this is what we expect these things to go. Right? You might see these even with very, very simple forms, like expected grades could arguably be something of this kind. They'd be very simple. So predictive AIs attempt to predict. They might also try to protect things like categories. You might look at patterns of enrollment or something and say, well, this student is likely to be a major in philosophy.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:09:05]: This student is likely to be a data science major. And that could help you maybe plan staffing right down the road. They could also maybe identify students who we've noticed if you had the adequate data collection system. We've noticed this student has just missed 3 classes in a row across 2 different courses. Let's raise a flag. Something might be worth noting here. This is now a high risk student, maybe the classification would be. Generative AI works in a very different way.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:09:28]: What it does is is generate something. It produces, and there's some debate about how novel the outputs of these things are, but a novel output based upon usually a description of the desired output. So you go in and you say draw me a picture of a bird, and it draws you a picture of a bird. You go in and you say, and this is the kind of thing that tends to worry academics, Write me a 10 page paper about the role of Rene Descartes' mind body dualism in creating a a sort of, individualistic conception of the self which results in all these problematic ways of viewing one's connection to society. I'm getting down a path here. Sorry. I'll back up a little bit. But you, you know, you ask it your your essay prompts, it will write an essay.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:10:09]: Not always a good essay, but they're getting better. And so what generative AI does that predictive AI don't doesn't do is produce novel outputs, a novel at least in the sense that they're not just copy and pasting from somewhere. What raises concerns for academics, things like turn it in won't work, at least not as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:25]: That generative AI space, I think, is that scariest space for academia, particularly in the academic integrity front as you just mentioned. But I think it also requires that we reevaluate how we're assessing student learning. We've been relying on the essay for 100 of years in terms of the way that we measure if a student's critical thinking skills have evolved in the course that the way that we want them to. But if I put this prompt into AI about my image of self through the lens of Descartes, I could also ask it to do a niamic pentameter, and it's gonna spit out something, but it may also invent sources. It may also just make stuff up that is not relevant. It could insert a number of different factors that, maybe the end user doesn't know that it's inserting. But it's also going to take what I input into that model and use it to continually train. So none of my data is private when I go into these models because it is collecting it and then using that to continue to synthesize on its own.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:25]: But I I think what the most interesting piece is to me is that ultimately what we're looking at is math. We're looking at, how these machine learning components are taking language, which is ultimately just a variable for it, and then creating stories, full stories. So when you think about where we are right now in this moment in higher education, how do you believe that professors should be looking at these language tools, large language model tools in their work, in their assessment of student learning?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:11:53]: Excellent question. I think this is the one that most faculty are really struggling with. And I think there are a couple of things to say. One is these tools are widely available and often without charge, which allows for effectively every student to be doing what what our wealthy students, who were maybe or or less scrupulous wealthy students anyway, might have been doing in the past, which is hire someone to write an essay for them. Everybody gets to do that. Now that was always a problem. It always existed. But there was enough of a barrier that we kind of just let it slide, I think.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:12:24]: At least many of us did. Now we must respond. And the way we respond is gonna depend upon what your priorities are. Right? If you want to know that somebody knows something off the top of their head, you should be asking it in a classroom in front of you, maybe with a proctored test in some cases, if you're especially dealing with the increasing number of students who are dealing with with things like remote learning in some way. So there's this sort of, you know, if you wanna stick to the old old style and there are places where that's the right thing to do, you need to be doing it in person. But we also need to be thinking more broadly about what the world we're preparing our students to engage in is going to be like. These will be tools that they will have and be interacting with for the rest of their life. All of us will be whether we like it or not.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:13:05]: And so we need to think about the ways that within our discipline, we can utilize these tools both to leverage learning about our disciplinary skill sets and our disciplinary topics, and also that we can train students to use the tools. Right? So there's using the tool to teach, for instance, philosophy, and then there's also teaching students how to use the tool. We're kind of in the early days of Google search again, where every class suddenly had to have a discussion about how to use Boolean search operators and that kind of thing. And while sometimes some of the stuff you're seeing out there isn't really legitimate, you should know that people make stuff up and lie online, and here's how we identify good sources. And now we have to do that with generative AI systems. Right? You should know they hallucinate is the term that gets thrown around. Right? They they make up facts. You need to learn how to prompt them in ways that help you avoid that.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:13:55]: You need to learn which systems can be trusted for which kinds of things and generally best practices. I'm most excited about using them as tools to teach skills that are often labor intensive. So, again, as a philosopher and particularly in teaching ethics courses. Right? So there's a lot of skills that are important there about analyzing the ethical dimensions of a given case, about working through problems and reasoning effectively, and monitoring students while they do that is a wonderful thing to do and is possible in sort of a live action action way. But providing a chat GPT, a custom GPT that's been written to prompt my students to go through a certain set of steps, right, can provide them with maybe not quite the same quality, but a much more available version of this sort of prompt. Now I would never suggest that you could replace your your assessment that way or replace your your direct education that way. Right? There's still a place for for sitting in the room with me and working through it because I might notice problems that KKPT doesn't. But especially over time and with practice, as we learn how to use these tools ourselves, we can build these really cool interactive systems, sometimes called interactive tutor systems in the older literatures that help respond to our students where they are, guide them through complicated processes, and really have a lot of promise.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:13]: You said GPT a couple of times, so I just wanna clarify definition. So when we say chat GPT, that GPT stands for generative pretrained transformer. I think a lot of people don't know that it's an acronym or just haven't gone to the depths of understanding what that means. And so the generative pretrained transformer means that it's taking the information that is already been fed that pretraining component and then transforming forming it into the output that we see as human beings. But we have different versions of chat gpt that have evolved over time. 3.5 was the one that a lot of people were using for a very long time. Now for Omni is out, which is a paid service. And so for Omni is better for sure in terms of the input it's been given and the output that it will give you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:55]: And when we look at what students are doing, it's it's not unaffordable to to become a paid member of, for Omni. And so you can use that to your advantage. The models aren't necessarily at a place right now where they can continuously self learn in the same way that we might expect them to, like a human brain can. But the information it's getting fed is is much more interesting these days. I was teaching the use of GPT 3.5 in my course the other day. And one of the things that I love about the course that I'm currently teaching is that students come from a multitude of countries. I think we had at least 7 countries represented in that space. And so we also learned a lot about bias, in the prompts that we were using and who trains the models, whose values are inputted into the models, what assumptions are made.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:41]: One of the examples we looked at is how to respond to a highly critical email. And so what we had folks do is input the email into chat gpt, and then on the other side, ask it to craft a polite and salient response that covers these three points. We made sure to de identify any names. If your institution has a confidentiality clause of some kind, if you're trying to observe FERPA, you need to be really careful that you're not putting student identifiable information into these models because that data can be used. But what we got spit out was an extremely Americanized version of what that email can look like. And so it, again, raises the question, who is it for and whose biases are integrated into the system? And so the student that was representing work in Ireland said, I can't use this because it's too American and it doesn't meet my cultural needs. So we asked ChatCPT to transform that response to make it more culturally Irish, which I was real scared of that prompt. I'm not gonna lie.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:38]: I thought we were gonna border into some very racist territory, and we were breathing a bit of a sigh of relief when it transformed it into something that the student identified as a little more usable. We tried the same thing in Lithuanian, and it did not give us what we needed because we had a student representing Lithuania. So the limitations of these models is very real, and that happens for for student learning as well. And I I think this is also true for things like Copilot. So the I think the 2 most ubiquitous tools right now are Chat GPT and Copilot for the everyday user. The other one that I've recently really taken to is Gamma. Have you played around with Gamma much?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:18:14]: No. I don't think I have.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:15]: Gamma is great. I actually designed my lecture using Gamma. It is a tool that you can take a Word document of, like, just an outline and upload it, and it will generate a PowerPoint for you based on what you've put into the Word document. If you want it to, it will also generate a ton of detail. Inocuous or not, it will also generate images that sometimes are really funky, but we we can get into images in a second. But what it did, I asked it to make a sandwich as an example of of how to do this. So I put in 10 lines of what I think are the basic instructions on how to make a sandwich. And then you can choose if you want it to give you basic output, kind of middle output, or thorough output, and it will just go to town about sauces and vegetables and slicing and toasting bread and types of cheese and things like that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:01]: So I think the sandwich example is an easy one because it can show you what it will take, which is make a sandwich, take some bread, add some veggies, add some protein, add some cheese, eat your sandwich, which is basically what I gave it. They turned it into a 10 slide PowerPoint, elaborate, elaborate, elaborate PowerPoint. So check out Gamma if you get a chance. What other tools are you using that people should know about?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:19:20]: So like you said, the biggest sort of general purpose are CAT KPTN being Copilot right now. And they have got a different focus. Copilot's really working to integrate to the Office 365 suite in some interesting ways that I think have a lot of promise for administration, especially at universities. As we've all been on email chains with 45 professors and really, really wish that we could have an instantaneous summary of what's been happening, Copilot can do that. It can summarize everything that that that's been going on. It can even summarize the text of ongoing meetings less well, but from recordings identify what was said and give you the bullet points. So I think the administrative side will see a lot of Copilot in these applications in particular. Another prominent sort of general model is gonna be Anthropic's Claude model, which is like OpenAI's CATGPT in effect.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:20:06]: And at various times, they pulled ahead of one another and which one produces, in some sense, the best quality output. So these are sort of the major commercial general use systems. There are specialized systems. So I use one called site dotaiscite.ai. Maybe I should ask for, like, a a free month.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:26]: We are not sponsored by site.ai.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:20:27]: No. We are not. Right? But what it does is solve the problem that ChatTPD has or at least tries to solve the problem of making stuff up. So it is designed to look around a large corpora of published academic work and identify articles that relate to various topics. It can even write you a sort of general overview of our topic that has these articles. And for researchers like myself, when I when I do research, it can be very helpful in a lot of ways. One is I need to find a quick literature review, essentially. Give me 10 articles that talk about this topic in contrasting ways, and it will generate a pretty decent list.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:21:04]: The other and the one that is very much time saving as I'm sure you've encountered this too is, you know, when you're writing a a long paper, you've read 45, 50, a 100 articles on some topic, And you remember that one of them said something like this. And your options are pretty much to control f and go through every document looking for keywords. But if you get the keyword wrong, you're just gonna have to keep doing this over and over again. So you can give Cite a list of articles and ask it to make inferences based just on those articles. And you can say things like, where which of these articles is likely to have said something like this? And it can give you some direction there. So it's been a very interesting tool, and I think one that a lot of people in the academic areas will will look at. Another thing to keep in mind is that there are also open source versions of these tools. So things like Hugging Face is is a prominent I know it's a weird name.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:21:57]: A prominent provider of these sorts of sources which allow people to make custom tools and tools that might protect data in ways that are really important. So there are 2 ways to go. You keep you you brought up the data security point which is really important. There are 2 ways for an institution to go here. 1 is to work with a provider to develop a data security agreement and to ensure that your institutional data will not be used for training a model. We can do that, and and institutions have done that. And I believe Duke has done this with Copilot, can do this with CAT KPT, and sometimes you'll set up a sort of private instance of one of these models where you put it on a server that is sort of isolated from the rest of the system. So this is one way that institutions can handle the privacy issue.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:22:36]: Another though is to build one in house. Now these models tend to be not as well fine tuned. They tend to be based on sort of the base model. So when we talk about chat to GPT, right, the GPT refers to a foundation model, which is a general purse purpose model, which can be used in various ways by various tools to create whatever output you want. ChatGPT is a specialized tool made by a specific company. Right? It's a packaging of that for sort of client use. There's other ones like, Lambda is another prominent foundation model. And so you can use one of those, take it yourself to, be adequate to your purposes, but then you're going to be dealing with the need to maintain that system more in house.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:23:15]: You won't be automatically keeping up with improvements that are becoming standard elsewhere in the world like you would with a commercially mainstream model. And the process of fine tuning and improving performance can be really expertise and time intensive.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:29]: You've mentioned prompting the models a couple of times. I think this is an important point for us to get to. The philosophy I've come to adopt after watching, you know, hundreds of YouTube videos on how to prompt these systems well is garbage in, garbage out. That is, I think, the best way that we can encapsulate how how to prompt one of these systems. Meaning that the more specific that you can get with your prompt, the more likely you are to get a usable reply. And if you are putting in nonsense or garbage, you're going to get nonsense or garbage back on the other side. So for example, if I want to write a paper, and don't do this for your academic integrity reasons, but if I wanted to write a paper on the future of student affairs and I put in to the GPT program, write me a paper on the future of student affairs, it's gonna go every which way. But if I put in write me a paper on the future of student affairs that covers the integration of artificial intelligence and the replacement of human jobs with AI and make sure that it is in a professional style and uses at least 10 sources, I'm gonna get a much different output than if I just said that very simple thing at the front.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:24:37]: Learning how to prompt is an important part of learning how to use these tools, both for us and for our students. Right? So this is when I when I talked about the need to teach students how to use these tools. I teach research methods in some of my classes that are now based around the effective use of these tools. We need to learn how to prompt them and how to interpret their output in ways that are helpful. And there are a lot of different approaches to crafting prompts that produce a sort of certain desired behaviors. Generally, this is called prompt design, which can be contrasted with prompt engineering, which has more to do with efficiency of a performance of a system. But when you design a prompt, there's a lot of different ways to do this. I use sometimes cane of thought or instruct models, but the basic idea for both of these is to deal with a problem that most of these systems have, which is that they don't follow rules very well.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:25:26]: So, again, let's bring back the case of adviser GPT. Right? If I ask it, how do I major in philosophy without taking logic? It might say, oh, go. Yeah. Here's how you would do it. You would have to take all these other courses and talk to your adviser and get these substitutions, but what it ought to say is you can't. The systems are designed to be helpful. They will find you an answer even if it's wrong unless you tell it not to. And so with careful sort of design methodologies, you can say, okay.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:25:53]: Well, you don't you know, first, you review the bulletin and look for an answer to the question, then you craft an answer to the question, then you make sure that the answer you are about to give me is correct. If you don't if if you cannot find a citation in the bulletin, do not give the answer and instruct me instead that this is you don't know. Right? This is a really important thing, actually, teaching them how to tell you they don't know. And so prompt design really radically changes things. It's also one of the things that makes it, in some sense, more dangerous for academic integrity than people realize. It's very common for people to sit down with this tool and take the vanilla out of the box ChatPpt and say, well, I asked it my questions. It gave terribly bland answers. That's fine.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:26:33]: I would either be able to tell this or it wouldn't do well in my class anyway. But a student who knows what they're doing could upload your syllabus, the rubric for the assignment, any samples you've given, could upload work they have written in the past and say, match this style so that it's gonna sound like them writing for you. And and that's a a thing we need to understand.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:53]: I'm sorry. I I think this is a this is the critical juncture right now of where especially student affairs is with academic integrity and AI because a lot of universities put the AI and I use AI doubly here because we say academic integrity is AI as well as artificial intelligence. But the responsibility for academic integrity falls into student affairs spaces at a large number of universities. So what is your best pro tip on how to identify whether an essay was generated by a large language model in part or in whole?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:27:25]: So I I'll return to the analogy earlier that having your paper written for you by CAT GPT is kind of like hiring someone to write it for you. You will not, in most cases, be able to use automated tools to identify effectively whether or not a paper has been written by a large language model or Any Script generative AI. In fact, OpenAI pulled their tool down. Now there's some word that they might have a tool that does this, but the way their tool was intended to work was specifically with reference to work it produced. It would encode essentially a watermark in the way it codes words that would be undetectable to most readers, but they could detect in the statistical properties of the way the words are related. But, of course, that wouldn't work if someone used Claude. Right? If they used a different system, you no longer have that watermark system. So my big my first message is do not rely on automated detection of AI content.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:28:17]: It will not work effectively based on my understanding, and you're really risking unfairly penalizing students in ways that are not productive. The second is talk to them the same way that you would if you thought someone they had paid someone to write this paper. Say, you know, I find that your your use of this, William's 1998 paper really interesting. How did you come across that paper? They should have an answer, right, especially if this is reasonably close for the period when they wrote it. Right? Or, you know, you use this this term a lot. Can you explain to me what you mean by this term? These kinds of questions can give you a better sense. But in a lot of ways, we are now back to a period of academic integrity that many of our younger faculty, including myself, have never existed in before, which is there is not going to be certainty any long. Right? I'm used to only penalizing students for academic integrity when I went on Turnitin and went, oh, yeah.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:29:11]: Or I, you know, pulled a phrase and went to Google and looked it up and, well, there it is. Right? That's probably done at least for the foreseeable future. So get comfortable with ambiguity, return, and think very seriously about the standards of evidence that you are using to assess academic integrity, what degree of certainty you need to feel you have to feel confident in leveling certain types of penalties, and understand that this is going to become a more intensive investigating procedure than was often the case in recent years.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:39]: This is such a tricky space because I feel like it's a losing battle for those of us who work in the academic integrity space of whack a mole. Right? Is this one generated? Is this not generated? And the tools are only gonna get better. So, again, the question is really what are we trying to assess from our students and why are we trying to assess it? And now the third question is how are we going to assess it in a way that ensures that they're they're learning? And so we we do have, generative tools that can do voice. We have generative tools that can do writing. We have generative tools that can do images, and these are all getting more sophisticated. So, you know, in 5 years' time, there may not be a discernible difference, and we will see what happens. Right now, these programs can't do hands. It's the oddest thing.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:21]: If you ask a program to generate you an image of a human hand, they they somehow can't figure that one out. And the other one I saw interestingly the other day was that no large language model can correctly tell you the number of r's in the word strawberry because of the way that the algorithm is broken down.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:30:38]: So so there are some definite limitations. They're also bad at teeth. Anything that requires them to see inside of what they're doing, they are bad at. So they can't count, for instance. Right? So this is the number of r's in strawberry. They'll often struggle because they see that as a single unit and they can't crack it open to look at what's inside of it. So they're just very confused. If you ask them word counts, they can even struggle with that sometimes.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:30:58]: I think one thing you brought up is really important here is academic integrity is associated with the kinds of assessments we're using. And in fact, its function to some large degree is to maintain the authenticity of those assessments. And a lot of what's going to have to be communicated here is that we need to rethink assessment like we said earlier. And this is going to push back in some sense on faculty. Faculty need to be working with their academic integrity units to understand what can still be meaningfully assessed, what can still be meaningfully maintained in the classroom. If you really need to know that a student knows the date of some event or can analyze some text off the top of their head. Again, you should be doing that in class where such concerns are simply gone. Right? The blue book is gonna make a fierce comeback, I predict.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:31:44]: So, otherwise, we need to just be more critical about the kinds of assignments we use. A lot of us are operating on tradition. Same things with how we understand academic integrity is largely influenced by a long academic tradition that operated under a form of intellectual productivity that may no longer be a form that we will be operating under. And so we need to adapt to those changes even in concepts as basic as what does it mean to have academic integrity and what am I doing in this ethics class.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:11]: Which is an ethical question. Indeed. Very meta. Well, Daniel, this season's theme is the past, present, and future of student affairs. And knowing you're on the faculty side of things, you might have an interesting perspective for us. So I'm gonna ask you our 3 questions on our theme for the season. So focus on the past, What's one component of the history of the student affairs profession or tradition that you think we should continue to carry forward or to let go of?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:32:33]: I think looking at the things I wanna carry forward is again, I think I said this a bit earlier, but I I think of teaching and student affairs and the university as a whole more and more of as a care profession and as a mentoring process. This is work intensive. It can be exhausting and frustrating, but I think it's the important thing. And this is something we see, I think, taken more seriously in some sense in prior iterations of what the university meant. Now in some sense, that's because they didn't have the large class sizes that we're dealing with. They didn't have huge universities that sprawled in this way and had as their mission to bring education to a large number of people. Right? Education was an elite thing. But if we can capture that, that sort of deep powerful connection, that deep mentoring, then we still have a value add.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:33:24]: Right? Then we're still contributing somehow to their development as a person. And in a sense, answering the question that the university has been facing since the dawn of the printing press, which is if I can just go read this there, why do I need to talk to you?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:36]: Conan Gutenberg. Okay. Alright. So our question on the present. What is happening in the field of student affairs or higher ed right now that's going well for student affairs in general?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:33:45]: I think we're becoming much more aware of campus cultures and the way that they need to be maintained effortfully. There are debates and reasonable ones to be had about what exact boundaries we want to set on our cultures, but I think for much of our history, we haven't really been engaging with that question as substantively and as effectively as we have recently. To connect back to the AI concern, one thing that we need to think about very seriously is that these tools not only enable academic integrity violations, but student conduct violations of the kinds that we may never have seen.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:17]: Automated harassment is a very real possibility now.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:34:17]: We've already seen this in some it in the broader world. We've seen things like revenge porn being fabricated with AI tools. We've seen falsified videos and audio using other people's voices. These are questions that we are gonna have to start figuring out both how to protect our students from administratively, right? What standards of safety and security we put in play and also how we react to these sorts of things.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:47]: And moving towards the future, in an ideal world, what does the field of student affairs need to do to thrive going forward?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:34:54]: Oh, that's a big question. I suppose, I mean, the short and easy answer is to continue to focus on students. I do think there's a version of focusing too much on students that can be problematic for universities where we become too customer service oriented. We need to avoid that. I think the analogy that I find more effective is the gym. Right? Which is, look, we're here to help you learn, help you grow, but you have to come and still have to do the work. Right? We're not gonna lift the weights for you. And so I think student affairs institutionally and, you know, faculty as well, we need to think a lot about how to promote and prepare the student for the world world that is coming.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:35:26]: And that is always changing. Right? And in a sense changing maybe faster these days than it was in history. And so maybe it made hitting a sense of flexibility and continual check-in and continual responsiveness is an aspect of this. So like a continual reflective response to students needs and the likely future realities that they will face. That might be my answer, I think.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:47]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:53]: Welcome back to the NASPA World! I'm really excited to be able to share some of that with you today. Every October, NASPA celebrates the profession of student affairs. It's a month long celebration of careers in student affairs. In this month long celebration, the NASPA community comes together to share knowledge, network, and uplift the student affairs profession. There's a number of great activities that are happening throughout the month that you can take advantage of, that you can get involved in and encourage you to go into the NASPA online learning community to check out all of the resources that have been brought together in one place for careers and student affairs month. And think about ways in which you can talk about our career with people on your campus, with undergraduate students, graduate students, and more. There's a couple of opportunities for you to be able to submit proposals for a few of the upcoming symposiums and institutes that are happening within our community. The 2025 NASPA International Symposium proposal submission deadline is October 15th.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:56]: The International Symposium serves as a dynamic platform for student affairs professionals globally to share insights, engage in meaningful dialogue, and network, as well as practitioners interested in further developing their global competency skills. The international symposium is happening on March 15th 16th, and program submission deadlines are available on the NASPA website. And you can do a proposal for a flash lightning talk, a general intersession, poster session, or scholarly paper. Highly encourage you to submit a proposal today. Also, the 2025 NASA Community College Institute Institute proposals are due on October 18th. The 2025 Institute will focus on celebrating the achievements of student affairs professionals, equipping new generations for success in transforming the field through collaboration and mentorship. As mentioned, the deadline for proposals is October 18th, and I hope that you will submit a program and help shape the future of our profession. The NASPA public policy division award applications are due October 12th.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:02]: The NASPA public policy professional award honors exceptional leadership and commitment in student affairs through public policy. Nominate a deserving colleague with a letter of nomination to support letters and their resume. Don't miss this chance to shine or to shine a spotlight on an exemplary colleague. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:14]: I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:44]: Chris, thank you so much for another great addition of NASPA World. It's always great to know what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Daniel, we have reached our lightning round where I have 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. Are you ready to go?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:39:58]: We'll find out.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:59]: Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:40:04]: Time For Tea. I don't know. It's a weird song I really like.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:07]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:40:11]: A father, husband, and a good man.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:12]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:40:15]: Walter Sinnott Armstrong at Duke.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:17]: Number 4, your essential higher education read.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:40:20]: Why don't students like school?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:21]: Number 5, the best TV show you've binged lately.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:40:24]: The Sopranos. A little out of date, going back to the classics there.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:27]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:40:31]: Recently, it's going to be History of Philosophy Without Any Gaps, a fantastic podcast for anyone interested in the history of philosophy without any gaps.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:38]: Number 7, finally, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:40:42]: I oppose to everyone here at DKU who's been so responsive and helpful as we move forward towards an AI enabled future. We really had a lot of people who've been supporting these kinds of efforts. Noah Pichis and and Ben van Overmeijer, has been engaged in a lot of I I would have I would have to think, Ying Chong. Really, just everybody here has been very on board, I feel like, with this effort. And, you know, that's been very influential in getting this going.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:05]: Well, Daniel, it's been a pleasure to speak with you on this topic. I think this is a conversation we're gonna continue to have in higher education for many, many years to come. If anyone would like to connect with you on your expertise on AI or philosophy, how can they find you?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:41:17]: So the easiest way is to email me at dew34@duke.eduordaniel.weissglass@dukecoonshaun.edu.cn. You can also find me on my website, danielweissglass. That's danielweiss blast.com. It's just my name, which I suppose will be in the show note.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:37]: Those show notes are partially generated by AI.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:41:40]: Fantastic. And I really am happy to talk about any of this stuff, and I expect to have even more interesting things to say in the near future. There's some interesting stuff happening here, and I think we'll we'll soon be in a position to continue the conversation.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:52]: Well, Daniel, again, a pleasure to have you on the show to talk with you about this area of subject matter expertise, and thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:42:00]: Thank you, Jill. It was a lot of fun.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:06]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful full that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:44]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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In the latest episode of SA Voices From The Field Dr. Jill Creighton has an engaging conversation with Lindsay Mason, a seasoned mid-level manager in student affairs at Colorado State University. The discussion revolves around the evolving landscape of student affairs, emphasizing the growing role of data, the need for AI and data science training, and the critical integration of social work theories. Let’s delve into the key takeaways from this insightful episode.

The Data-Driven Evolution in Student Affairs

Mason highlights the increasing reliance on data in decision-making processes within student affairs. With technological advancements and the influx of data, professionals in this field can make more informed decisions that better support student needs. Dr. Creighton also underscores the importance of AI and data science training to enhance assessment practices.

Given the complexities of student demographics and the diversity of their needs, the ability to analyze and interpret data becomes crucial. This shift not only aids in identifying issues but also in implementing effective, evidence-based solutions. As student affairs continue to evolve, professionals must keep pace with these advancements to provide holistic support.

Integrating Social Work Theories

Mason advocates for embedding social work theories into student affairs programs. By doing so, institutions can offer more comprehensive support structures that cater to the multifaceted challenges students face. Social work theories emphasize empathy, community building, and systemic change—elements that are essential in fostering an inclusive campus environment.

This integration helps student affairs professionals to address issues such as mental health, food security, and housing instability more effectively. By viewing students through a social work lens, professionals can develop more tailored and impactful interventions.

The Critical Role of Town-Gown Relationships

The episode delves into the significance of town-gown relationships, a core component of Mason's role at Colorado State University. Town-gown work involves fostering collaboration between the university and the surrounding community, which is vital for professional development and creating a supportive environment for students.

Mason discusses her unique position split between the university and the city, focusing on conflict resolution and building partnerships with local stakeholders. This role is pivotal in mediating between long-term residents and student populations, ensuring harmony and cooperation within the community.

Addressing Housing and Food Security

The rising costs of housing and food insecurity are significant barriers to student enrollment and retention. Mason emphasizes the importance of supporting students facing these challenges, highlighting initiatives like the student resolution center and the fall clean-up program. Dr. Creighton agrees, noting the difficulty in identifying and supporting students with temporary housing issues.

Efforts to combat these issues are multifaceted, involving collaboration with local police services, property managers, and community liaisons. These partnerships are integral to creating resources that address the basic needs of students, thereby fostering a stable environment conducive to academic success.

Challenging Professionalism Norms

Mason and Dr. Creighton discuss the need to challenge traditional definitions of professionalism within student affairs. Ensuring that the profession is inclusive of all identities is paramount for social justice. Dr. Creighton provides a personal example, leading with visible facial piercings and tattoos, symbolizing acceptance and inclusivity.

Mason notes that embracing diverse expressions of professionalism empowers students and staff alike, encouraging authenticity and a sense of belonging. As the field evolves, redefining professionalism to be more inclusive will be crucial for supporting a diverse student body.

Upcoming Opportunities for Professional Growth

Dr. Lewis shares exciting opportunities for professional development, such as the upcoming annual NASPA conference and the 2025 NASPA Institute for New AVPs. These platforms are essential for networking, skill enhancement, and staying abreast of industry trends.

He encourages members to update their profiles to take advantage of these engagement opportunities, indicating the importance of continual learning and growth in the dynamic field of student affairs.

Mentorship and Influence

Throughout the episode, Mason acknowledges the profound impact of mentorship in her career. She mentions influential mentors like Jeannie Ortega, Emily Seams, and Nancy Rhodes, and her admiration for Cal Newport’s work on deep, meaningful work.

These influences have shaped her approach to student affairs, emphasizing the value of dedicated, thoughtful engagement with work and continuous personal development.

A Path Forward

As student affairs continue to adapt and grow, the insights shared by Lindsay Mason highlight the importance of embracing data-driven decision-making, integrating social work theories, and focusing on inclusivity and social justice. The episode underscores the dynamic nature of the field and the need for ongoing professional development to better serve diverse student populations.

Through collaborative efforts, innovative approaches, and a commitment to fostering inclusive environments, student affairs professionals can navigate the challenges and opportunities of the evolving higher education landscape.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. Be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on essay voices from the field, we welcome Lindsay Mason. Lindsay is a first generation college student from a blue collar working class family. She currently serves as the director of off campus life at Colorado State University as one of the NASPA off campus and commuter student services knowledge community co chairs, and she teaches and advises graduate students studying student affairs. Lindsay's career has focused on town gown work for over a decade.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:50]: She earned her bachelor's degree in sociology from California State University, San Marcos, a master's degree in student affairs and higher education from Colorado State University, and a PhD in higher education and student affairs leadership from the University of Northern Colorado. Lindsay, welcome to SA Voices.

Lindsay Mason [00:01:06]: Thanks for having me, Jill. I'm excited to be here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:08]: In our pre show chatter, I was glad to get to know that we've spent time in similar parts of the country along the front range in Colorado. I know that you're having a much more beautiful summer than I am here over in England.

Lindsay Mason [00:01:20]: It has been lovely this summer. Yeah. For sure.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:23]: Well, Lindsay, we're gonna be speaking to you today all about your experiences at the mid level in student affairs in the present day about what's going on with the features of your work, particularly around town gown and serving commuter based students. But before we get into all of that, we really like to start by getting to know you by asking how you got to your current seat.

Lindsay Mason [00:01:43]: So I did my undergrad at Cal State San Marcos. And I remember when I was at my orientation, there was this opportunity that was shared where incoming 1st year students could be matched up with a senior in our student government for, like, a mentorship opportunity. And I remember getting the sheet to fill out to say, yes, I wanna do this. And I remember one of the questions was, what do you want your mentor to know? And I think what they were trying to get at was, oh, are you wanting someone that has a certain major that's similar to yours? Or maybe you're really interested in fraternity and sorority life, so you're looking for someone that's in a fraternity or sorority. I literally wrote, they need to know everything I need to know because I'm 1st gen. I didn't know what I was doing. And so anyways, I got hooked up with this senior and he recommended that I joined the orientation team. And so that's what got me into student affairs at first was his recommendation.

Lindsay Mason [00:02:35]: And I had excellent supervisors and mentors when I worked in orientation. And Dilsey Perez, one of my supervisors, she said, Lindsay, you should go into student affairs, and you should go to Colorado State's program. I heard it's off the hook. And I was like, okay. And so that's how I ended up at Colorado State coming out of Southern California. Once I was finishing my degree, my husband was also studying at Colorado State. He was finishing his degree and he needed a couple more years and we thought, okay, we'll do 2 more years at CSU and then we're going to go back to California to be with family. Coincidentally, at the time, my department, off campus life, was hiring a temporary program coordinator for just 2 years.

Lindsay Mason [00:03:17]: And so it felt like the perfect fit. They need someone for 2 years. I only intend to be here for 2 years. And I was a commuter student all my undergraduate years, and so I thought, yeah, I could do this. So I ended up in my department just I was in the right place at the right time. But here I am, 11 years later, as the director. So, obviously, I stuck around, and I was the program coordinator for 5 years, got promoted to assistant director, and then interviewed and went got the director role. And I also ended up pulling my whole family out to Colorado with me.

Lindsay Mason [00:03:46]: So they ended up following me versus me going back. So I really kind of built my roots here and it all ended up kind of working out. And I think because I've been in my department for 11 years, I do find my work very fulfilling, and I'm learning something new every day. But I think being in the same department for a long time has also pushed me to seek challenges elsewhere to make sure that I continue to grow and develop. So I was interested in getting involved with NASPA in some capacity. I've been attending the annual conference every year and had presented multiple times, but I was interested in more. And my KC was founded back in 2019, I think. And so it's a pretty young KC and so I had been working with commuter students for several years.

Lindsay Mason [00:04:28]: I found out there was a KC that was being founded. And so I said, this feels like the right place for me to give some time and energy. And so I initially started as the research and assessment co chair for the KC, and then now eventually as the chair.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:42]: What are you all focused on right now in terms of practice sharing and kind of themes or up and coming future forward items for working with commuter students?

Lindsay Mason [00:04:51]: So a few things that we're working on. 1, we have a lot of questions coming in where members are asking what type of physical spaces other universities are providing for their commuter students. So we have a small task force that is focused on gathering information about commuter lounges. We have we're interested in launching a commuter appreciation week in partnership with other national organizations that also support commuter students. We also have a practical toolkit that we are nearly done developing that is helping people come across a lot in the KC is why do some people say commuter and why do some people come across a lot in the KC is why do some people say commuter and why do some people say off campus? So we did this study to find out why are some universities choosing one word over the other to define their students that live in the community. And it was so varied. We initially thought, oh, we maybe can try to propose a shared definition of what a commuter student is and what an off campus student is, but that quickly proved impossible. So rather, what we've developed is a set of questions that university staff can go through on their own to help them define what are our commuter students, who are our off campus students, and particularly thinking about the common intersecting identity with commuter or off campus students. So being a caregiver, having a job, how far are they commuting, if they're living with family, those types of things.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:25]: I would imagine that was a really tricky space to get to because oftentimes, even at our traditional 4 year institutions, by the time students hit 3rd 4th year, they're living off campus, but maybe wouldn't consider themselves in that off campus or commuter student space. Whereas if they're a student that's from that community, maybe they would. I totally see where that rubber meeting road became difficult for you all. So beyond the definitions then, let's talk a little bit about that support mechanism piece that you started to talk about. You mentioned lounges, you mentioned appreciation weeks. What else is going on in the off campus and commuter student land that student affairs professionals should know about, especially for those who don't focus specifically on this population?

Lindsay Mason [00:07:07]: I think as a nation, across many communities, we are seeing a housing crisis. And I think as housing costs only continue to rise, we are already seeing it, but we will only continue to see it to be a bigger retention issue. There are already many students that are choosing where they go to college based on what the cost of living is there. And I think about how in my type of work, I'm working within systems, specifically off campus housing markets, where I am both reliant on that market existing, but the way that I accomplish my work and the way that maybe property managers accomplish their work sometimes aligns and sometimes does not. And it is hard to be reliant on an industry that I do not always align with. So I do a lot of basic needs work at my university, specifically around housing. I also do transportation work because I happen to supervise the university safe ride program, which is not common for people that do my type of work. That's a unique setup.

Lindsay Mason [00:08:09]: I support folks on campus who do food security work, and sometimes I'll describe it as we as a country have a surplus of food. We just don't do a good job in making sure that it doesn't go wasted. We do not have a surplus of housing, and so we are trying to work within this basic needs that does not have a surplus that is easily fixed. On top of housing being, it's an expensive thing to build and live in. There's a lot of legalities behind housing. So when I think about off campus and commuter students, I think about how are they managing even now to afford rent, and when will we really start to see the negative impacts of a significant portion of our students choosing not to come to a certain area of the country because of housing? Well, let me back up. Nope. Let me back up.

Lindsay Mason [00:08:57]: Are we able to accurately capture how many students will choose not to come to our institutions because of housing costs? I think that's an incredibly difficult statistic to measure, but I think it is impacting who chooses to matriculate and then and our retention rates.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:17]: I absolutely agree with you on that. And we also have a crisis of housing among students who are struggling with temporary housing processes. Right? So when I was working with fundamental needs, specifically at a r one d one on the West Coast, one of the things that we learned was that most students who are unhoused or struggling with permanent housing aren't identifying themselves to the institution, probably because we've never given them a mechanism to do so. And then also are more likely not to self identify as unhoused because they're couch surfing with their friends. They might spend a couple of nights with friend a and a couple of nights with friend b and continually move. And so they have some housing security, but it's not full housing security. And those types of things are hard for institutions to measure, hard to communicate with students because we can't yet, find out who those students are. And then even more difficult to keep going down the road of, well, okay, now we've found you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:11]: How do we help you now? Because as you mentioned, rent costs are very, very high, especially in smaller markets where a lot of our traditional 4 years are and rent costs are exponentially high when we have urban campuses. So it's quite a challenge. I know that part of your work is town gown related. And in the community you're in, there's, I think, a substantially sized community around the institution, which is a nice benefit to a degree, but it's not quite a major metro. So thinking about that, how do you negotiate, as you mentioned, the values of what you need to do to keep your students' food and housing secure with the realities of a capitalist housing market?

Lindsay Mason [00:10:49]: So I would say all of my work that I do is town gown in some capacity. There isn't anything I do that isn't related to how our students are experiencing our community, what they're contributing to the community, how they're being impacted by the community they live in. So sometimes at the end of the year, we all have our annual evaluations and we are asked, can you give us a list of 5 to 10 colleagues that you would want to complete a peer evaluation for you? And when I think about my peers, I think just as quickly about my city colleagues as I do about my institution's colleagues. In fact, I share a position with the city. I co supervise with my city. I have someone that's 50% in my office and 50% in the city of Fort Collins neighborhood services. So I'm working with folks in the city daily. So when I think about folk that I I'm also working with property managers daily.

Lindsay Mason [00:11:41]: And in fact, my office created and hired a position called a property manager liaison because we wanted someone in our office who used to work for a apartment complex or property manager. I've never been a property manager. I don't know what it's like to live that life, but I work with them every day and I'm so reliant on their industry. I wanted to have a better insight of how they do their work. So your question, what am I considering as I'm trying to work with folks, I think about what are their values, what are their bottom lines, what are their culture, what's their department's culture in a variety of ways? So, again, I I work with neighborhood services a lot in the city, and I think about neighborhood services reporting line. Who do they report up to? And what's it like for them to speak to city council, which is different than what maybe what it's like for me as a director to speak to my vice president or president and eventually up to board of governors. Or I work with police a lot because I do a lot of safety related things off campus related to drunk driving and parties and things like that. And that police culture is very different than student affairs culture.

Lindsay Mason [00:12:46]: When I think about working with property managers, they are working both with a national management company, but they also probably have a separate owner. Not always, but likely 2 different entities that they're that they have to report to. So this isn't a specific answer, but that's something I think a lot about in my work. I can't just consider how will whatever I wanna do be received at my institution. I'm thinking about a variety of partners and what it will be like for them because I can't do my work without those partners. I do nothing alone. Right? Everything is with my partners, whether they're in city offices or local properties around us.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:21]: I wanna go back to the position that you identified as being half time with the city and half time with the university. That is a really unique model that I don't think we see a lot in higher education, and it sounds like a fantastic way to solve some of the challenges of the 2, big major entities collaborating. Can you talk to us about how that came to life for your institution and what that person's function is and some of the pros and cons of it? And I guess I could be a better descriptor of it that, yes,

Lindsay Mason [00:13:47]: technically, they spend half their physical time with the city, half their physical time with the university, but everything they're doing is university city work or town gown work. Everything is connected. So that position has existed since 2000. At the time, we were seeing a huge amount of disruptions in our local neighborhoods around campus, particularly large parties and riot. And so a lot of town gown efforts came out at that time, and one of them was this shared position. It now is so well established that I sign an inter gov I sign an intergovernmental agreement with the city only once every decade because we commit to it a decade at a time. So it's well established and well respected. So logistically, the position is housed at CSU.

Lindsay Mason [00:14:35]: We had to pick one entity for, like, HR purposes. You know, where does the paycheck come from? All those things. And so we decided that it was gonna be based at the institution, but we get half of the salary from the city and half of the programmatic dollars from the city. There are complications that come with working within 2 entities but only truly being employed by 1 entity on paper, so at the city they have to be classified as a contractor. So they get access to a lot, but there are a couple of city systems that are difficult for them to access. Sometimes the technology is a little difficult because both of us have protected systems to log into, and again, being a city contractor, they don't get all the same access. But they have 2 email addresses, and that's purposeful because depending if the community liaison, that's the title of the position, I can't remember if I said that, depending if the community liaison is talking to a student resident or what we call a long term resident. That's the best way I distinguish between someone who's a CSU student and someone who's not a CSU student.

Lindsay Mason [00:15:39]: But, of course, we don't like to identify people by what they're not. Sometimes they'll give them their city email and sometimes their CSU email because we want to be clear that this person isn't here just to represent 1 population. They're here for everybody that lives in our community, regardless of their affiliation with CSU or not. Their work is really focused in the neighborhoods that have high a high mixture of long term residents and student residents. Their position does some people say like boots on the ground type work. So if there's a long term resident and a student resident that live next door and they're having conflict because of noise or parking issues or something like that. The community liaison is trained in mediation to go out and have a direct conversation with those neighbors, but they are also leading high level partnerships between the university and the city that also do neighborhood type work. So, for example, every week, we have a meeting that involves myself and our student resolution center at CSU.

Lindsay Mason [00:16:34]: Our student resolution center houses our conflict resolution services and our student conduct services. And then we also have neighborhood services in Fort Collins Police Services. We are meeting regularly and that is led by our community liaison because they're living in both worlds. They're at different staff meetings. They get the best understanding of what types of resources these different departments have. So the community liaison is leading us through what new partnerships can we build or what different resources can we bring to proactively and reactively support our neighborhoods around campus. The position, I agree, is incredibly valuable. I think excellent strategy for town gown relations, and it takes maintenance.

Lindsay Mason [00:17:17]: It takes effort from, particularly from both myself and the manager of neighborhood services to make sure that we're in alignment and that we trust each other and that we both accept responsibility for what's happening in the neighborhoods around campus, that both of us are invested in that work. And so over the years, the manager at neighborhood services and the director of off campus life, we have changed. And it's important that we are telling the story of the importance of this position, the history of this position, and why the position needs to continue.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:49]: How do you all make yourselves known to the long term residents of the community? I feel like, you know, being kind of housed at the institution, communicating with our students is always its own challenge, but a much easier prospect at the end of the day than trying to make yourselves known and your services known to members of the community that have probably lived there longer than anyone's been in their roles.

Lindsay Mason [00:18:10]: Yeah. So we have several programs that take place out in the community. Some of which are opt in by the long term residents, so they would need to know what's happening, but some of it is because we're literally walking up to their door. So, for example, the first Wednesday of classes, we will host our annual community welcome event where we get a couple 100 volunteers. The volunteers are a mix of city staff, CSU staff, CSU students, and some long term residents. And we go in teams door to door in the neighborhoods around campus to either welcome them to the neighborhood or welcome them to the academic year. We talk about changes upcoming for this year that might impact the local neighborhoods. But then also remind them about the art of neighboring, the importance of being a good neighbor.

Lindsay Mason [00:18:53]: So we have some programs like that where we are going to them no matter what. They will see us. Then we have some other long standing programs where we send out mailings, And then we also have some long standing programs where neighbors can opt in. For example, we do a fall cleanup program where a couple thousand students will go out and rake leaves for mostly elderly or disabled residents to help them be able to age in their home. When we advertise those types of opportunities that are opt in, we are really using more city communication than we are university communication. So neighborhood services has their newsletter. They use Next store. We run stories in our local newspaper.

Lindsay Mason [00:19:31]: So as an institution, I don't think I could effectively do that without my partnerships in the city. And then our community liaison is also going out to many city events and introducing themselves, talking to neighbors at events where the university would not normally be present. And so, I mean, some of our neighbors, sometimes when they have questions or tension or something, sometimes they call our office or call neighborhood services and they know. They're like, I need to talk to the community liaison. I know that's a resource you have, and they name it. And that for me is, well, I don't love that they're experiencing whatever tension it is. I'm like, oh, I'm glad you know though that we do care, and we have someone dedicated to working through that with you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:06]: Let's shift gears a little bit because one of the things that I think you've been able to do in your position is really grow from that program temporary coordinator into the person leading the office, And then ultimately with the director title and where you're organizationally situated, you're a true mid level manager in student affairs. What do you see as shifting right now for mid level managers in terms of your responsibilities or day to day worlds that may have been a little different than when you entered the field? And where do you see it going in the next couple of years?

Lindsay Mason [00:20:38]: I'll share some thoughts I'm having, but I know that my perspective is, of course, heavily influenced by being a director of a small unit. There are 7 career staff in my team, which there could be some departments that are, like, I'm a department of 2. You seem much bigger. But in comparison to, like, a housing department or a rec center or a health network. Right? Those are quite large. So I know being a mid level manager in a smaller department. In addition, I'm also a mid level manager at a large university. One change I see coming, which I think is great, is the amount of data or reporting out that we are required to do.

Lindsay Mason [00:21:17]: I think it is a positive trend for us as a profession that we are being asked to be more clear about the data that we are using to make decisions. It is difficult on departments that do not have an assessment assigned person. We're not big enough or have the resources to have someone that does, you know, assessment or evaluation or a program review as their dedicated job. So that's difficult. Okay. I have one that maybe more people will relate to. When I finished my master's in 2013, it was standard that in order to get an entry level student affairs role, you had to have a master's in student affairs. It is not like that anymore.

Lindsay Mason [00:21:56]: As a profession, particularly because of the hiring and job turnover that happened during COVID, We are seeing particularly because of the job turnover that happened during COVID, but also because our pay and our profession has not kept pace in decades with where we should be paid. We are seeing a bigger trend of entry level roles being hired with folks that do not have a student affairs background. Now on the one hand, I love that. I love that I have someone in my office that comes out of property management and not from student affairs or someone that is coming more from a psychology or social work background and not out of student affairs. I think all that is great. It also, as a mid level manager, while supervising entry level employees is already a pull on mid level managers, training more entry level employees about our profession on the job is an even bigger pull. And, and that can be difficult. It can be more time consuming.

Lindsay Mason [00:22:53]: Again, these people with other types of backgrounds, they bring a lot of value to our work, and I'm excited to have folks that aren't in student affairs, But I'm having to relearn how I onboard employees to include things like student development theory and things like that that traditionally they would have had training in. So that's maybe a trend that I've seen, and I think will only continue.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:14]: That's a great segue into our theme questions for this season. On the past, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think that we need to let go of?

Lindsay Mason [00:23:25]: I like that student affairs professionals have a history of removing barriers for students of all identities to be able to gain access to higher ed. I felt that as a student, and I feel it in my working life that that's an important piece of what I do. But as a student affairs professional from a working class background, the definitions of professionalism I must meet feel outdated at best to me. I struggle with how I was encouraged to be more authentic as a student. But then once I represented the university, I had to fall in line with white middle class professionalism. So I want us not that there's no movement, but I wish more folks challenged how we define professionalism in our profession that is trying to work towards social justice.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:20]: That's a beautifully put statement. I agree with you. And I've seen some really great presentations at NASPA in the last couple of years around dress codes in particular and who they serve and who they don't and whose standard are we really enforcing. So that's a really good one to hang on to. And I see this as a person who shows up every day with very visible facial piercings, and I'm not taking them out for anybody. So

Lindsay Mason [00:24:42]: As you shouldn't.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:43]: I'll be a great example of someone who can lead at the senior levels in student affairs, but also show up with visible tattoos and face piercings. I'm gonna keep doing it. Number 2, we're moving towards the present. What's happening in the field right now that's going well for us?

Lindsay Mason [00:24:57]: I mentioned it earlier, our increasing usage of data. We need to be more clear about how we're using data to make our decisions. I feel our profession wanes in and out of how other people at our institutions and then certainly outside of higher education value the work that we do. Sometimes it is very evident, and sometimes it isn't. And how are we sharing data to tell our stories and to show that our work is theory and data driven? It's not random.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:24]: I think this is an area where AI is going to help us a lot if we can get there. But a lot of the tools that we need for assessment cost money, and a lot of us don't have the depth of training we need from a statistics perspective or a data science perspective. And so it's this tension of continually being a person of all trades in our profession. And then knowing that data driven information helps us get positions, helps us retain budget, helps us grow our programs, helps us improve the student experience, all of those things. But most of us took one class in our master's programs if we did go for the master's and not all of us did. So that's gonna be an interesting trend to continue to track. And let's move towards the future, which is in an ideal world, what does the field need to do to thrive towards the future?

Lindsay Mason [00:26:11]: When I was reflecting on this, admittedly, I don't think my answer is from an ideal world. I was thinking more of just what do I think our profession needs? My answer certainly is heavily influenced by the fact that I do a lot of basic needs work. We need to study social work theories. I wish social work was more integrated into student affairs programs. I mean, even minimally as an elective to better inform how our students need to navigate both within our systems, but also navigating life outside of higher ed. So I think as a profession, we would benefit from more partnerships and more studying of social work theories.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:47]: And I'll give a shout out to student affairs organization called HECMA. It's the Higher Education Case Managers Association. They have both clinical and nonclinical tracks for case managers. These are people working in student care, both within counseling centers and teams of students offices, things like that. And they've started on that probably within the last 15 years or so. I would love to see that expand. That's a great perspective. Lindsay, anything else that you wanted to share on off campus and commuter students or the past, present, and future of student affairs?

Lindsay Mason [00:27:16]: I appreciate the opportunity to be on this podcast to to talk about working with commuter or off campus students and specifically more broadly doing town gown work. I think it is a fairly niche area of student affairs, although town gown work exists across multiple departments at a university and a city. So while it might be niche in student affairs, the work is incredibly fulfilling, and I'm learning a lot of skills that can be applicable in a variety of areas. So I feel like I'm getting a lot of great professional development because I do town gown work. I'm challenged in a different way working across multiple organizations outside of my institution. And while I landed in it a little randomly because I was in the right place at the right time, I'm so thankful that I'm here. And I would want others to know I think this town gown type work is meaningful. It matters.

Lindsay Mason [00:28:08]: It's challenging in a good way. And even if folks right now are not in a role that feels town gown, there is likely an opportunity for it to be so. So I think there's some cool expansion when a university and city or county or local areas think about working together. We do a lot of opportunities to do some cool

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:24]: things. It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:30]: Thanks so much, Joe. Glad to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a lot of things happening in NASPA this week. One of the dates to keep in mind as we're looking toward the future is the NASPA annual conference. It might seem like it's a long way away. However, it's not as far out as you think, and it is a perfect time for you to be thinking about making your plans, registering for the conference, and preparing for an amazing conference in New Orleans on March 15th through 19th. The focus areas of the conference this year are on well-being and healthy excellence in student affairs, changing the student affairs profession, and sustaining and celebrating the profession. There are so many opportunities to be able to take part in the conference, to learn, to grow, to be able to take all of that learning back to your own campuses. And if you've never attended a conference before or if this is your 10th or more conference, it is always a homecoming to go back to the conference and be able to reconnect with all of your professional colleagues.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:29]: It's the fall, and that means it's a perfect time to be able to do some, fall cleaning. And some of that fall cleaning means going into your NASPA profile to make sure that you are getting what you want. You can do that by going to the NASPA website atnaspa.org, clicking on my NASPA and logging in. When you log in, go to edit my profile and check all of the different links that are there. Make sure that your name and institution and all of the information and all of the information that's there is accurate. But then you want to go a little bit deeper and look at your engagement and be able to find out what are you actually signed up for. By clicking on my NASPA engagement, you have an opportunity to be able to sign up for different knowledge communities, journals, divisions, and groups, and be able to stay in the know of what is happening within NASPA. I highly encourage you to do this.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:24]: It doesn't take a lot of time. And after you add different things into your engagement portal, make sure to save it so that you will get informed about everything that you are most passionate about. Finally, today, I'm going to just throw out another professional development opportunity. I already talked about the annual conference, but I wanted to also talk about the 2025 NASPA Institute For New AVPs. The NASPA Institute For New AVPs is a foundational 3 day learning and networking experience designed to support and develop AVPs in their unique and challenging roles on campus. The institute is appropriate for AVPs and other senior level number twos who report to the highest ranking student affairs officer and who have been serving in their first AVP or number 2 position for no longer than 2 years. December 11th is the early registration deadline for this amazing professional development opportunity, which will be happening January 23rd through 25th in Columbus, Ohio. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:22]: So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:43]: Chris, thank you so much for another edition of NASPA World. Always great to learn what's going on in and around NASPA. Lindsay, we have our lightning round ready for you. Seven questions, 90 seconds. You ready to go?

Lindsay Mason [00:32:55]: Okay. I'm ready.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:56]: All right. Number 1, If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Lindsay Mason [00:33:01]: What's coming to mind for me is some type of country song. Not a lot of people in student affairs listen to country. There's a lot of assumptions about me because I listen to country, but I like country music, and I'm okay with that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:11]: Number 2. When you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Lindsay Mason [00:33:15]: Oh, a dozer operator. My dad's a heavy equipment operator. I really wanted to drive tractors. And even to this day, I my dad's a professional truck driver. I also one day, I wanna get my CDL license. I love thing big things with engines. I owned a school bus for a year, and I was like, let me go drive this school bus. And I offered it to other people to drive it, and they're like, I would never do that.

Lindsay Mason [00:33:34]: And I was like, how do you not wanna do this? So I wanted to drive big pieces of equipment.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:38]: My nephew would totally wanna spend all the time with you. He is currently obsessed with all things dozer related, Bob the Builder, all of it.

Lindsay Mason [00:33:45]: Love it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:46]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Lindsay Mason [00:33:49]: I have several women in particular in my life that have been excellent mentors for me. I think about women that influenced me heavily when I was an undergrad, people that were strong influences on me when I was in my masters, and then now as a professional. I'm gonna mention 3. The 3 women who worked full time in off campus life when I first started, Jeannie Ortega, Emily Seams, and Nancy Rhodes. I still work with Nancy. She and I are still together in our office. And I recently went to a lunch with all the career staff in my office except Nancy because she was visiting her mom in Florida. And I actually realized in that moment, I did not like being without my 3 original women because they placed such a heavy influence in my life.

Lindsay Mason [00:34:27]: So Jeanne Ortega, Emily Seams, Nancy Rhodes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:29]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Lindsay Mason [00:34:32]: Maybe a little nontraditional. I recently well, the last couple of years, I've been really digging Cal Newport and his work around deep meaningful work, so much so that I built a workshop that is offered through my university's talent development. And I like his techniques around developing my capacity to do focused, deep, meaningful work.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:52]: Number 5, the best TV show you've binged lately.

Lindsay Mason [00:34:55]: My new favorite comfort show is Abbott Elementary. I see that being one that I'm gonna turn back to a lot, similar to how I turn back to The Office or Parks and Rec. So Abbott Elementary.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:05]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Lindsay Mason [00:35:09]: Because I'm a 1st gen student, I carry a lot of financial responsibility in my family. And so I listen to financial podcasts. 2 of them that I listen to are choose FI and all the hacks.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:18]: Alright. And finally, number 7. Any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Lindsay Mason [00:35:23]: The people that I did not mention earlier, folks that were really influential in my career as an undergrad include Dilsey Perez and Jenny Ruiz. When I was a grad student, I had a lot of great mentorship from Bobby Kuntzmann and Pamela Norris. I also think one of the best decisions I ever made in my life is marrying my husband, Jason Martin. He's an excellent partner.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:41]: Lindsay, it's been a pleasure to get to know you better today, to learn about your expertise and great work with the community that you're living in and working with. I'm sure there are folks that would like to get connected with you either for your area of specialty or also just getting involved with the knowledge community that you're co leading. If anyone would like connect with you after the show, how can they find you?

Lindsay Mason [00:35:59]: I think the best way would be to email my Colorado State email address. It's lindsay.mason@colostate.edu. And it's lindsay with an a.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:09]: Lindsay, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Lindsay Mason [00:36:11]: Thanks, Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:17]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at savoices@naspa.org, or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr.Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

View Details

Understanding the Unique Needs of Adult Learners

In this episode of SA Voices From the Field, Dr. Jill Creighton delve into the intricacies of supporting adult learners with Lindsay Taylor, a strategic program manager and NASPA leader. Lindsay shares her extensive experience in aiding adult learners through various academic and co-curricular initiatives, particularly her work with the National Society of Leadership and Success (NSLS) and NASPA’s Adult Learners and Students with Children Knowledge Community.

Transition to Online Learning During the Pandemic

Lindsay describes the transformation her organization experienced moving from a hybrid model to a fully online one. Initiating this shift just before the pandemic, her team had to quickly adapt to the exclusively online format, relying on trial and error to determine the best technological solutions. Initially experimenting with Google discussions, they ultimately settled on the GroupMe app based on positive student feedback and participation rates. This application allowed for ease of use, catering to those less tech-savvy by enabling text message integration. This adaptability and student-centric approach played a significant role in maintaining engagement and continuing student success during challenging times.

Strategies for Engaging and Supporting Adult Learners

Recognizing that adult learners often juggle multiple responsibilities, Lindsay highlights several strategies her team implements:

Accessible Orientation Materials:
- Crafting easily accessible orientation videos.
- Providing clear guidelines on software usage.
- Offering support documents and checklists to ease the transition into virtual learning environments.
Inclusive Support Systems:
- Including parents in the educational process fosters a family homework dynamic.
- Encouraging family involvement can positively impact degree completion and commencement rates among adult learners.
Community Creation:
- Developing online hubs for students to connect and share resources.
- Encouraging direct student input through annual engagement surveys to tailor activities and support structures that best meet their needs.

Overlaps with First-Generation Students

Many strategies developed for adult learners also benefit first-generation students. By creating a readily accessible support system, both groups receive the necessary guidance and resources without feeling alienated. This approach aligns with diversity, equity, and inclusion values, ensuring that all students feel supported and engaged regardless of their background or current situation.

Leveraging Technology for a Sense of Belonging

Lindsay discusses the importance of creating virtual communities where students can network and establish personal connections despite physical distances. The use of platforms like GroupMe for success networking meetings, where students set smart goals and hold each other accountable, exemplifies leveraging technology to foster a sense of belonging. These communities become invaluable for students who might otherwise feel isolated due to their busy schedules or geographical constraints.

Challenges and Solutions in Success Networking Meetings

A significant hurdle in leadership programs is the success networking meeting. Students must engage in group collaboration, which proves challenging for those juggling multiple responsibilities. By creating flexible, accessible options through technology, Lindsay and her team effectively support students who might fear overcommitment. This tailored approach ensures students can complete their responsibilities without foregoing critical networking opportunities.

Future Directions in Student Affairs

Looking forward, Lindsay advocates for continuous assessment and innovative practices in student affairs. Emphasizing technology and community-building, she underlines the importance of evolving to meet students' changing needs. Lindsay also encourages involving students in decision-making processes, ensuring their voices directly influence the programs designed to support their success.

In this episode, Lindsay's insights into supporting adult learners and students with children resonate deeply. The innovative strategies her team employs to create accessible and engaging learning environments offer valuable lessons for educational institutions striving to adapt and support their students. As we move forward, the key to success lies in continuing to listen, adapt, and innovate being driven by the diverse needs of our student populations.

You are encouraged to connect with Lindsay Taylor on LinkedIn for further insights and participation in upcoming meetings focused on collaboration within the NASPA Knowledge Community. The future of student affairs undoubtedly involves a blend of technology, empathy, and proactive engagement strategies, paving the way for inclusive and successful educational experiences for all.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. Be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on essay voices, we welcome Lindsay Taylor, sheher. Lindsay is the strategic program manager for her university's chapter of the National Society of Leadership and Success or N SLS. She also serves on the leadership committee for NASPA's Adult Learners and Students with Children Knowledge Community. The N SLS chapter she manages serves more than 2,000 students in the southeast region.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:49]: Lindsay holds an MBA from Quinnipiac University and is currently pursuing her certified student affairs educator certification through the Higher Education Consortium. Using her business expertise, Lindsay has coached more than 670 students, helping them develop their leadership acumen. She continues to motivate and mentor students and student chapter leaders and has established the chapter as a growing financially self sustaining operation. Lindsay attribute NSLS chapter success to ensuring students are heard and creating innovative solutions current and future practice of student affairs around adult learners and non traditional learners. I think that's definitely a fantastic area for us to continue to explore. You're also one of our knowledge community co chairs, and you're working, quite a lot to support, students with children. So a lot to dig into today. But we always love to start our episodes by asking, what is your current role and how did you get to your current seat?

Lindsay Taylor [00:01:49]: I have multiple roles that I hold. So I work in admissions. I am a chapter adviser for one of the honor societies for my university, and we cover the entire southeast region from Maryland and DC all the way down to Florida and over to Tennessee and Kentucky. I am also on their co curricular board. And then, as you mentioned, I'm one of the co chairs for the adult learners and students with children knowledge community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:12]: So you are wearing a ton of hats right now.

Lindsay Taylor [00:02:14]: Yes. I enjoyed though. I also get to be a programming chair for one of our business resource groups. So I really enjoyed diving into that, and I'm just the person that keeps asking questions, and then I get involved into things.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:27]: I think that is a very traditional NASPA story that we're all just continually saying yes, and then all of a sudden we find ourselves in all of these big things. Well, can you talk to us a little bit about the knowledge community first? I think it's a knowledge community that's fairly new in the NASPA space compared to maybe some of the ones that have been there for the last 20, 30 years. But I think you're serving an incredibly important population. All of our students are important. This particular population, I think, is growing.

Lindsay Taylor [00:02:52]: Definitely. I joined this knowledge community during one of the pandemic NASPA conferences that was online, and I was thrilled by the stuff that was happening. And they were talking about how in Oregon, there was laws being passed and Illinois to collect demographic data on our adult learners so that the schools can better serve them. In Oregon, the one university that was talking about it, they have a whole day to celebrate their adult learners, and I thought that was fantastic. So the knowledge community really focuses on how we can support the adult learners in that space, but also acknowledging that there's people that have pen they're taking care of. And often these learners are people that they're working at least one job, maybe more, while trying to go to school and care for their family. So it's a balancing act for them to manage their time and still be successful in their class.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:40]: How are we defining adult learners in the knowledge community space? I think it's a fun tension because all of our students are adults once they come to the collegiate space. So it's a unique utilization of the term.

Lindsay Taylor [00:03:51]: So we actually had a conversation about this at our last strategy meeting, and we kind of have it to how the student is identifying themselves. Because it came up about even, like, people that are caring for other people outside of children, especially ever since the pandemic. Like, a lot of people got sick, so they may be caring for parents now. And it's how the student is identifying themselves. If they identify themselves as someone that's an adult learner versus that traditional, you've graduated high school, now you're moving on into college, they might have started their academic journey a little bit later.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:23]: And we are also seeing an increase in students with children balancing those priorities of earning their degrees while also raising their families. I was recently at a university in North Central Minnesota. And one of the things that I loved is they've converted one of their student apartment buildings into single parent housing, which I thought was really unique. I had not seen that done at many other institutions. Seeing family housing in a lot of places, but this was really specific to support students who did not have another adult partner helping them raise that family. So I thought that was a great trend. What other types of trends are you seeing that are supporting our students with children?

Lindsay Taylor [00:04:58]: I'm seeing a lot more initiatives to allow them to feel like they're being seen because oftentimes that population of students, they feel like they're the forgotten ones. They may be going to the community colleges a lot when they start off or going right into the online, and they often feel disconnected from the university because they don't have that traditional time to go join student clubs and be in person because they're often at their job or even having take their kids somewhere. And then so I think because the pandemic forces of a whole industry to kind of adapt and change. A lot more schools are offering more online environments, and it gives that flexibility back to the student so that they can still feel like they can balance everything and be pursuing their degree.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:41]: That balance component, I think, applies to all sorts of learners who are working full time jobs or maybe multiple jobs and trying to earn their degrees. You mentioned connection as a place where universities are still trying to figure out how to engage our students that are online learners or maybe students that are only coming to campus for their classes. Maybe they don't want to join a club or org, or maybe they do, but they simply do not have capacity. So what are some of the practices we're seeing to build those connections given that our traditional methods are probably not going to work?

Lindsay Taylor [00:06:12]: I think having more of an online community home. So, like, the honor society that we run, we have over 2,000 students in our chapter, and majority of them are adult learners. We do an engagement survey every year, and we say, okay. What is working for you and what is not working for you? Because we want you who knows the student better than they know themselves? So we wanna hear from them on what can we do as a chapter to better serve you through your leadership program so that you're able to finish that step. Because the one step that just always holds a lot of students is what's called a success networking team meeting, which is the one step that they can't do solo. It's the one step where they have to be in a group and collaborating with people and talking with other people. And when you have people that are 3rd shift and other different, like, jobs, they have 2 of them that they have to balance. They're like, I don't have time, and they just back away.

Lindsay Taylor [00:07:04]: And so I think by having more of those trends of asking the students what they need, there's platforms out there, like, Unified that I know other schools have integrated into their platform that brings what's going on to the university all to their student portal so that these students can see what's going on, see what's trending at their university, see what's out there for them, and it making it more accessible.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:26]: You mentioned a success networking meeting. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Lindsay Taylor [00:07:30]: Yeah. It's an opportunity for the students to establish a smart goal. So it requires a my half doing a lot of, like, success coaching and say, okay. Well, that's a great goal, but how do we take that from a goal to a smart goal? When do you want to achieve this? What are the steps you're gonna take to reach this goal? And really kind of guiding the students through that when they're submitting their reports, but it's an opportunity for them to connect in with other individuals in the honor society and have that accountability aspect to that because their other fellow members are encouraging them. And it's always great to see that because one of the things that we've done for our chapters will have the on live events, but then we also put everybody into a group me. So we're utilizing technology to bring it to our adult learners and those that have children and people that are caring for others so that they're able to still do their success networking team meetings in that group setting, but it's just at their fingertips.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:23]: And you're doing that in an online context, which I think is quite innovative. A lot of institutions would love to be pushing that direction. So how did you get your institution to move from this idea that we needed to have this space? It was probably in person. Pandemic happened. That pushed a lot of us online. But what made it stick and create infrastructure in the online space?

Lindsay Taylor [00:08:43]: So our chapter actually formed the fall of 2019. So we were a hybrid chapter where we had our main location in Tennessee, and then we also are doing more hybrid style for those in North Carolina. During the pandemic, we expanded out to where we're at now where we covered the entire southeast region. So we were doing that while having to adapt to going strictly online, and we went through a lot of, like, different iterations because we were like, okay. What if we use the Google discussions? Because you can create a whole discussion board in Google to see, like, how would this work for the students to be able to navigate this. But when we saw that some people were having trouble technology wise, like, not everybody's gonna be technologically savvy, and so we then moved it to GroupMe to try that for the students. And it was kind of a trial and error of, okay, what is gonna work for this chapter? And as the chapter advisor and it also gives a lot of flexibility in running chapters. They're like, you have these set guidelines that you have to follow.

Lindsay Taylor [00:09:40]: But as far as if you wanna modify certain things for your chapter to best work for it, you can. And I appreciate that because that's what's allowed for us to really, can. And I appreciate that because that's what's allowed for us to really optimize the technology and find something that was gonna be simpler. Something that people can literally just use their phones because with GroupMe, it'll send it as a text message to them, or they can be in the GroupMe app. And so it made it something that they're familiar with, and then that's kind of what allowed for a lot more people. And I explained to them, like, well, all you have to do is this. They're like, it's that easy? Yes. We've literally simplified it to make it as easy for you as possible.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:14]: Let's talk about the tech a minute because I think the tech is always pushing the field forward into the future. I think a lot of institutions are currently making the rounds through Discord and Slack and GroupMe and whatever other platform we're using to create groups with students. I know this was Facebook Groups back in the day, and now we've kind of merged into other spaces. How did your team decide that GroupMe was going to be the way to meet students where they're at?

Lindsay Taylor [00:10:41]: So we started integrating that around 2021 or 2022, and we had, like, our first kind of cohort of students. And then through the engagement survey, we said, okay. Did you guys like this? Which one are you using more? Did you, like, attend the live events, or did you find the group me was easy to use? And then based on that's the group of students' feedback, we determined that the group meet what's gonna be that best option for everybody because of the positive feedback that we got back from the students. So that's why we continue to use that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:13]: What other strategies are you using that you're finding quite effective in engaging your adult learners?

Lindsay Taylor [00:11:18]: I would say bringing it to their forefront of where they can find the information. The one thing I found is, like, they just don't have time to go digging through stuff. They need it right front and center to them where it's easily accessible. They can find it. So this year, we are actually creating a new member orientation video separate from the orientation that kinda guides them through their leadership programs. So we're like, hey. We're your chapter adviser, and this is your student president. We're gonna kinda guide you through your entire NSLs portal so that as we're having our members join, we can send that out and we've created, like, little syllabus documents to say, here's the software that you should be using.

Lindsay Taylor [00:11:57]: Like, make sure you're using the NSL's mobile app. Make sure you have the GroupMe app, and then listing out everything for them. So that there's no question about what's going on, that everything is like, hey. Here's a document. You can print this off. We created, like, an induction steps checklist for them. So with their s and t's, if they attend the live event but they forget to submit the report, they can put on the paper, oh, I attended it this day. And then as that reminder, it says, and I submitted my report on x y z date.

Lindsay Taylor [00:12:24]: So it gives them that way that if they're, you know, short on time, they can go back to their document and then go, oh, I can add the date for this and then get that submitted.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:33]: I'm hearing a lot of overlap in success for 1st generation students and what you're finding is successful for the adult learning communities that you're serving. How many of your students are also in that 1st gen space?

Lindsay Taylor [00:12:46]: I haven't asked that question, but I think that would be a really good question to ask. A lot of the students, when we ask what their age range is, the majority of our students are usually 40 and over, but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't also be a 1st gen student. I think having worked on the admission side with a lot of the first gen students, I do think there is that challenge when they don't know what to expect and being able to be that guiding force sort of speak that can say, okay. And this is what you can expect and, like, asking, do you under like, stay in all of this? And then making sure that their support system also understands Because sometimes people have questions, what are you doing? And so I think it's having information that's easily accessible to both the 1st gen and the adult learners does help because sometimes they need that reference point to come back to.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:36]: And what we know, right, is that if it's good for a 1st gen student, it's gonna be good for all students. And that's really about communication, dispelling the ivory tower, and the language that we use that could be to insider, to the field, or to the institution, redefining terms, that kind of thing. You just made a really important point, which is also looping in student support systems to help them through the process. When you're working with adult learners, who are you looping in generally from that support systems perspective?

Lindsay Taylor [00:14:05]: So a lot of the students that I work with through admissions, they often have children. So I'll always crack the joke and be like, oh, you're gonna have a homework table now. Like, everybody sits down, they do their homework together. And it makes them laugh, but I think it also, like, creates that visual for them to see themselves being successful in their class, to see themselves being able to demonstrate, like, hey, this is something I'm able to accomplish so that they feel like they're encouraging their kids to also do well in their classes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:32]: And when you're seeing families do this together, what are we seeing on the finishing side, on the commencement and on the degree completion?

Lindsay Taylor [00:14:40]: I love when I get to see the students make it through the program, but because I'm also the chapter adviser for the honor study, I get to see them again when they then become a part of the honor society, and it's often a great experience because they're like, hey. It's you. And it's so great to see that in order for them to be able to join that, they do have to meet GBA requirements. They have to be progressing through their program. So it's kind of like when you're going through a marathon and someone hands you your water and your cookie to keep going. It's like, hey. You made it this far. Look at what you're able to accomplish.

Lindsay Taylor [00:15:13]: And being able to just then watch them set goals of, I wanna finish my degree by x y z date, and then some of them are towards the end of their program. So then their 3rd and final s and t meeting that they submit for their, hey, I'm only 2 classes away from my program now. And being able to see the success that they're having is just so cool to see, like, their whole journey and be a part of that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:35]: We've talked a bit about success. I wanna talk a little bit about the inverse in terms of what are you seeing with your adult learner communities that might be leading to a stop out or a drop out?

Lindsay Taylor [00:15:44]: I think the time management is one of the most common ones that I hear from a lot of students that come back is that life just got busy. And, I'm the first one to say life just happens a lot to adult learners. I mean, they could have cars breaking down or have something happen with their job. They get laid off or anything can happen. And it kinda goes back to, like, Maslow's hierarchy of needs. They have to make sure that their basic needs are being met before they can even think about their education because they often have other people that are relying on them or they have to self rely, and there's no one else that they can depend on to help them through those times. And I think those are some of the biggest causes as to why students, you know, shift out is funding life happening to mom and not really having any other support to kind of help guide them through those tough situations.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:33]: Do you have any advice for other student affairs professionals who are also supporting students in these situations?

Lindsay Taylor [00:16:38]: I have found that sometimes if you can just make them realize that you're there for them, even if you're just listening and showing that empathy. If you're aware of, like, resources that are in, like, the state, being able to direct them to resources that can help. I found that that really helps because it goes beyond them thinking of you as just the man trying to get their money kind of thing to them feeling like you're actually there for them and there to support them and that you genuinely care about their success.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:10]: Are there any other activities happening in the KC right now that you want NASPA listeners to know about?

Lindsay Taylor [00:17:15]: Well, we do have upcoming meetings. We usually do them the 1st Friday of every month. So I would love for more people to come to our meetings. We're always brainstorming how we can collaborate with other Casey's as well because there is a lot of intersectionality between what we do and some of the other knowledge communities as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:33]: And how can folks find you if they'd like to join?

Lindsay Taylor [00:17:35]: They can find me on my LinkedIn. If they search for Lindsay Taylor, they'll be able to find me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:40]: Well, Lindsay, we are in our theme of the past, present, and future of student affairs. And this season, kind of like our season on Becoming, we have a set of questions that we're gonna be asking every guest that are specific to the past, present, and future of student affairs. So I'm gonna start with our past question, which is what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think that we should continue to carry forward?

Lindsay Taylor [00:18:05]: I definitely think assessment and evaluation is something that we really should carry forward. I think it's what's led to different student development theories, but it's also we live in a society where our information is constantly being collected. So why wouldn't it be any different for a university to go beyond just the persistent measure analytics and being able to see, okay, how are our student organizations impacting persistence? Because that's part of why we do our engagement survey is to really analyze what is working and what is not, and being able to get that information from the students can be really valuable.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:41]: And moving into the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for the profession?

Lindsay Taylor [00:18:46]: I think the focus on diversity, equity, and inclusion in higher end, you know, it's becoming challenging. It's something that is going well for, student affairs because it allows for students to benefit from having diverse perspectives. Especially when you look at adult learners, these are individuals that are already in the workforce. They are already being different cultures and being involved in that. I think having that ability to have DNI a part of curriculum actually allows for them to not just learn information, but then be able take that back and implement it into their lives.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:18]: Looking forward into the future, in an ideal world, what does the field need to do to thrive towards our future?

Lindsay Taylor [00:19:24]: I think really taking advantage of technology. Technology can be a great way to connect people, to fill in the gaps for adult learners, 1st gen, whoever the student identifies as. It helps to create communities for students to find their sense of belonging in the institution, but do it on a time frame that really works best for them.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:48]: I wholeheartedly agree with you on the technology piece. I'm currently, teaching as an adjunct in a higher ed master's course, and I'm teaching a tech module. And our first lesson is gonna be all about AI and how higher ed and student affairs can harness AI for good instead of for the scary stuff. I think a lot of times because it's a bit unknown, a lot of us are a little bit like, oh. And it particularly for my colleagues in student conduct and seeing the rise of AI in what we would also call AI or academic integrity, artificial intelligence and academic integrity. It's getting to be a bit of a dicey space. So a lot for us to figure out. Lindsay, is there anything else that you'd like to share about the adult learner community or the National Honor Society that you're advising?

Lindsay Taylor [00:20:31]: If I could say one thing, I wouldn't say don't be afraid of innovation. And it's the one thing that I constantly am doing is how can we make this better? What can we do that improves this? Especially, if you're engaging with your students and getting that feedback from them, bring it back to the students. Our eboard, we analyze that data from the engagement survey, and we have about 13 or so 10 to 13 student leaders on our eboard. And I will bring it back to them and say, okay. This is the feedback that you're getting from your members. What can we do? What are some solutions that you're thinking about? And then I'll even suggest things to them and say, what do you think about this? How does this look? So it allows for them to engage in things that impact others like themselves.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:15]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:21]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a lot going on as we start a brand new year. And, 1st and foremost, the 2025 Excellence Awards are now open. And any of you that wish to be able to apply for one of the Excellence Awards, and I highly encourage you to do just that, to be able to recognize the excellence awards, recognize amazing programs at our different institutions, to be able to showcase the great things that are happening and the people that are making those things happen. There's a ton of different categories and a lot of different areas that will help you to be able to bring forth these amazing services, these amazing things that are contributing to the success of our students. I highly encourage you to check them out. You can apply for an excellence award until October 9, 2024. So submit a nomination today.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:17]: The 6th Annual European Conference for Student Affairs and Services is coming up November 20th through 22nd in Saint Julien's, Malta. This conference provides a platform for student affairs professionals, academics, researchers, and policymakers to discuss innovative programs, practices, models, and trends in student affairs. This year's conference is called Universities of the Future, Empowering Student Affairs Professionals and Fostering Student Flourishing. The regular registration for this conference is going to be closing on September 17th. So you still have a little bit of time left, and I highly encourage you to take a look at it. You can find out more on the NASPA website. Just recently, the Journal of First Generation Stupid Success, volume 4 issue 2 came out. And if you have never checked out this amazing journal, this is another great resource that is provided to you as a member of NASPA, and I highly encourage you to check it out.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:10]: There's a number of great articles in this journal, including the role of family cultural capital to predicting study abroad participation in 1st generation US undergraduates. Also revisiting college access and equity, perspectives of continuing generation college students on their 1st generation peers. These are just 2 of a number of different articles in the journal itself. It's always a fascinating read, and you can find this journal and all of the journals that you have access to as a member of NASPA. On the NASPA website, when you go to the NASPA when you go to naspa.org, just go under publications, and you can find all of the journals there. Finally, I talked about the excellence awards, but there are a number of other awards that are also available to you as a NASPA member. So if you want to honor a rising mid level professional or the president of your institution or a faculty member for what they're doing in the field, consider community. Awards through most of the knowledge communities.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:18]: And all of these different awards are available for individuals to be able to be considered for. And you can nominate someone until October 9th. It is really important that we recognize best practices, people and more to be able to allow for others to learn from their success. Please take a moment to nominate someone for one of these awards and help the profession to be able to recognize the great work of people and programs that are truly working to create opportunities for success for our students and our campuses. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:51]: I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association, and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:21]: Chris, thank you so much for getting us kicked off with NASPA World. It's always great to learn what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Lindsay, we have now reached our lightning round. I have Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Lindsay Taylor [00:26:36]: Maybe, like, ready to rock or something. Like, let's get it going.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:46]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Lindsay Taylor [00:26:50]: I don't remember when I was 5, but I know I spent a lot of time really just wanting to help others. So it's great that I get to kinda do that and then differently than I thought.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:58]: Number 3, Who's your most influential professional mentor?

Lindsay Taylor [00:27:01]: So it's not, like, mine directly, but my husband worked at a community college before. And one of his managers for the fitness center, she said, never be afraid to ask the question because the worst someone can say is no. And I live that every

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:16]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Lindsay Taylor [00:27:18]: Well, right now, I'm studying for the certified student affairs educator. That was definitely the handbook.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:24]: Number 5, the best TV show that you've binged lately?

Lindsay Taylor [00:27:27]: Admittedly, because I am a nineties person, I just finished rewatching all of Girl Meets World because I love Boy Meets World, and I love the Feeny call.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:37]: I've been listening to a ton of Pod Meets World.

Lindsay Taylor [00:27:40]: I love that too. They're great. I love them.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:43]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Lindsay Taylor [00:27:47]: Pod Meets World.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:49]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Lindsay Taylor [00:27:54]: I would like to shout out our co chair president for the adult learners, students, and children, Casey. Kelly, she's doing a fantastic job at it, and she does a great job in managing all of us co chairs, and I'm excited for what the future is gonna bring with her leadership.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:08]: Lindsay, it's been a pleasure to speak with you today. I know I've learned a lot from you, and I know our listeners will as well. I know you mentioned your LinkedIn earlier, but if anyone would like to reach you after the show, what's the best way to find you?

Lindsay Taylor [00:28:19]: Definitely more on my LinkedIn because I'm on there a lot because I also manage our KC LinkedIn, and then I also manage the LinkedIn group for the Honor Society. So I'm always on there.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:30]: And you can find Lindsay's spelling in the show notes. Lindsay is with an a y, so please make sure you connect with her. Lindsay, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Lindsay Taylor [00:28:40]: Thank you for having me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:46]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at savoices@naspa.org, or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and by doctor Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:23]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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Welcome to another enriching season of the Student Affairs Voices from the Field podcast! As we kick off Season 11, hosts Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Christopher Lewis dive deep into the past, present, and future of student affairs, offering a robust discussion designed to resonate with everyone from seasoned experts to fresh-faced professionals stepping into the field for the first time. This season, aptly timed as we approach fall 2024, promises to unravel layers of insight by unpacking critical themes and interviewing diverse voices within higher education.

A Summer to Reflect

Dr. Jill Creighton opens by setting the stage for what promises to be an impactful season. “This break between season 10 and season 11 has gone by at a blink,” notes Dr. Christopher Lewis, encapsulating the whirlwind that is summer in academia. The warm months are a brief yet essential time for rest, reflection, and preparation — particularly relevant for professionals in student affairs who anticipate the fall with a mixture of excitement and, often, trepidation. As campuses spring back to life, it’s a period of rejuvenation and readiness, laying the groundwork for the academic adventures to follow.

Election Year Dynamics

As Dr. Creighton mentions, “Anytime we have an election year in the US, it changes the work that we do.” The intersection of politics and education makes for a tumultuous landscape. Political outcomes affect campus climates, funding, and overall student wellbeing. It impacts not just the professionals within student affairs but also the students they serve. Dr. Lewis reflects on this, acknowledging the complexity that comes with trying to create a smooth transition for new and returning students amid political unrest.

The 2024 election year, therefore, is expected to bring unique challenges and opportunities. How campuses handle political discourse and maintain inclusivity will be key areas of focus. Whether it involves navigating conversations about policy impacts or ensuring that marginalized voices are heard, student affairs professionals have a pivotal role in steering the educational experience during such crucial times.

Exploring the Past, Present, and Future

For Seasons 11 and 12, the podcast is taking a thematic approach, concentrating on the past, present, and future of student affairs. This strategic focus builds upon the success of previous seasons that examined transitions in the industry. By honing in on this comprehensive tripartite theme, the podcast aims to paint a holistic picture of where student affairs has been, where it stands today, and where it's headed.

Each guest will be challenged to answer three fundamental questions about the past, present, and future of student affairs. These discussions will not only highlight individual professional areas of expertise but will also address broader functional areas and trends. Expect rich dialogue on how historical contexts have shaped current practices and how emerging trends are set to redefine the student affairs landscape.

Diverse Voices Across Career Stages

One of the notable features of this season is its commitment to inclusivity in terms of career stages. As Dr. Creighton points out, the goal is to engage voices from all walks of professional life. Whether you’re a retiree offering seasoned wisdom, a first-year professional with fresh insights, a grad student bringing academic rigor, or a mid-level professional balancing day-to-day operations, your story is valuable.

Listeners are encouraged to contribute by recommending others or volunteering themselves to be part of this dynamic discourse. The podcast team is eager to feature a mosaic of perspectives, illustrating the diverse tapestry of experiences that comprise student affairs today.

As we embark on this new season, the Student Affairs Voices from the Field podcast stands as a beacon for thoughtful conversation and professional development. From examining the impact of political climates on campuses to exploring the evolution of student affairs, this season sets the stage for an exciting journey through the myriad aspects of higher education. We invite you to listen, engage, and reflect as we unravel the past, present, and future of student affairs together.

For those interested in contributing to the season, send your recommendations to savoices@naspa.org. Whether you're a novice or a veteran in the field, your voice matters and can profoundly impact the broader student affairs community.

Catch the latest episodes on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen, and don't forget to leave a review to help others discover this invaluable resource. Here's to another season of learning and growing together!

TRANSCRIPTION

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:29]: It's amazing. This break between season 10 and season 11 has gone by at a blink, and it has been a really quick summer. I'm glad that we're hitting the fall and we're really getting ready, not only for a new season, but a new fall with new students and just really excited about it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:48]: I'm starting to see move in pictures for our profession. We're all headed for our next adventure around the academic calendar. And I think student affairs as a profession might be in for a little bit of a ride this fall. I think anytime we have an election year in the US, it changes the work that we do. So I'm definitely thinking about all of our colleagues out there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:15]: Definitely hear you in that regard. I feel for the people that are not only parents that are moving their kids in for the first time or second time or third time, but for all of us as professionals that are working to make that smooth and make it a seamless transition for all of our students. But you're right. It can definitely be a very tumultuous few months as we go through this election and whatever the outcome is going to be and how that politically is going to impact how our campuses run, how it impacts our students, and more.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:48]: With all of those impacts, as we thought about what we wanted to look at for what is now season 11, if you can believe it, of essay voices from the field. We really began reflecting on how our last seasons of 9 and 10 on transitions. It felt pretty successful for us in looking at a whole season arc on one theme. Gave us a way to focus in on what was going on. And so we're gonna try it again for seasons 11 and 12. We're gonna be looking at the past, present, and future of student affairs. And I really can't think of a better time to be doing that than right now. And so this year, kind of going back to our season on becoming, we're gonna be asking each of our guests 3 questions. 1 about the past of student affairs, one about the present, and one about the future. So in addition to learning about their professional areas of expertise, their functional areas, the work that they're doing on their campuses, and the messages they have for all of us. I really look forward to hearing their thoughts on that topic.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:45]: You know, I'm really looking forward to it as well. And I think there's going to be a wide array of individuals that have some really interesting things to say. We have some names that we're already looking at. We're excited about the people that are going to be joining us over the next year, and all this are out there. If there are people that you feel that really should be a part of this season that have compelling stories or have something that that you feel that could really add to the discourse about the past, present, and future of our profession, we'd love to hear from you. Send us an email at savoices@naspa.org. And we would love to be able to get your names that you're submitting in, whether it's you, whether it's someone else. Let us know.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:32]: And when we talk about past, present, and future voices, we're also looking at where you are in the tenure in your career. If you're retired, we wanna hear from you. If you are in your very first year, we wanna hear from you. If you're a grad student, we especially wanna hear from you. And if you're a mid level professional making it work day in and day out, we wanna hear from you. So please reach out. We'd love to feature your voice on the show for season 112 on the past, present, and future of student affairs. See you very soon.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:05]: This has been an episode of SA voices from the field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at savoices@naspa.org, or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:40]: This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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In the latest episode of “Student Affairs Voices from the Field,” hosts Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Christopher Lewis bring Season 10 to a close with transformative updates and forward-looking announcements. Dr. Creighton opens the episode by introducing the podcast's continuing focus on transitions within student affairs, a nod to the overarching theme from Season 9. However, the hosts regret to inform listeners that the promised grand finale has been postponed. In its place, listeners are treated to the exciting news of upcoming bonus episodes featuring notable guests.

One of the key highlights is the announcement of Dr. Amelia Parnell as the incoming president of NASPA. Dr. Lewis shares his enthusiasm about Dr. Parnell’s upcoming appearance on the podcast, where she will discuss the future direction of the association under her leadership. Dr. Creighton encourages prospective candidates to check out the newly posted Vice President for Policy and Research position at NASPA, emphasizing the mentorship opportunities available.

As the episode wraps up, Dr. Creighton expresses heartfelt gratitude to listeners for their engagement and support. She encourages them to reach out with feedback and suggestions for future episodes, and invites them to spread the word about the show. The hosts sign off, promising insightful discussions and inspirational stories in the bonus episodes to come. TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:20]:

Hey, Chris.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:24]: Hey, Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:24]: Well, our finale plans have hit a bit of a transition, haven't they?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:30]: Yeah. I guess, we are finishing off our season of transitions with a transition as we move into a further transition of a new season.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:38]: So with that in mind, we know that we promised you a finale worth waiting for. And I think, first of all, we're very sorry we're not gonna be able to deliver. So we don't wanna lead you astray with our promises for a big finale, but we do wanna promise you a couple of bonus episodes for the summer, including a very special guest. Chris, do you wanna tell us who's coming on?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:57]: You know, we're really excited to have doctor Amelia Parnell joining us this summer as she transitions into the president of NASPA role. And we've already reached out, talked to her. We're getting a time with her very soon to be able to record an episode to talk about where we're at as an association, but where we're going in the future under her leadership.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:19]: And with that in mind, a huge congratulations to Emilia. We could not be more thrilled to be led by you going forward. You are going to do an amazing job, and I just am so thrilled to be seeing you at the helm of NASPA. With that in mind too, we also see Amelia's former position is now posted. So if you are interested in becoming the vice president for policy and research at NASPA, go check out NASPA's career page. You can see the details of the job description, the posting, and all of the relevant information. We know that whomever comes into that role has some huge shoes to fill, but we also know they're going to have amazing mentorship. This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:01]: This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us atsa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:40]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of

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We hope that you have been enjoying Season 10! We have one final episode coming for Season 10 and this is one that you will not want to miss. We will be back in a few weeks and then will be taking a break as we prepare for Season 11 of NASPA's SA Voices from the Field!

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Transition as Growth: Vaughn's Bold Leaps from Athletics to Student Services

In the heartwarming and inspiring latest episode of NASPA's SA Voices From the Field podcast we welcomed Dr. Vaughn Calhoun, an esteemed academic leader, recounted his transformative journey from a student athlete with a career-ending injury to a beacon for change in higher education.

Engineering Identity Post-Injury

Calhoun began by sharing the immediate consequences of his injury and the impact it had on his self-image and life trajectory. He emphasized the importance of identity reconstruction, an experience that propelled him from a series of unfulfilling jobs to the realization that he needed to embrace authentic studenthood—a leap he bravely took by pursuing a master's degree far from the world of sports he knew.

Encounters That Changed

His Path One of the most pivotal moments in Calhoun's life was an encounter with a stranger at Borders bookstore who saw in him a potential future as a university athletic director. This set him on a path to his doctorate, with a determined goal to understand and improve collegiate athletics from an administrative perspective.

Mentorship and Its Lasting Impact

Calhoun credited much of his success to the mentors he encountered, specifically highlighting an inviting university president who believed in him and guided his professional growth. This president showed Calhoun how to harness vulnerability and understanding, which in turn helped him carve out his niche in student affairs.

The Student at Heart of the Leader

With a robust background in public policy and the professoriate, Calhoun brought humility and an unwavering focus on student success to his administrative roles. His approach has always been about being receptive to student needs and advocating for their growth and success, a principle he implemented in his roles at various educational institutions.

Innovation and Adaptation

Furthermore, Calhoun discussed the rise of AI in education and the urgent need for educators to integrate new technologies. Adaptation, he stressed, is not only inevitable but essential for student support and success, highlighting the importance of ethical considerations in the digital age.

Embracing the Journey

Closing the episode, Calhoun imparted advice to student affairs professionals undergoing transitions, encouraging them to focus on the process and seek mentorship. He suggests that staying authentic, seeking challenging experiences, and forming a supportive network are keys to personal and professional development.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:54]: A thought leader and commentator on issues related to the changing landscape of higher ed, doctor Calhoun believes critical dialogue is necessary to equip students for the future of work, which means cultivating adaptive learners who can thrive in a world that is increasingly volatile, uncertain, complex, and ambiguous. Doctor Calhoun's leadership career spans colleges and universities in the northeast from public, private, urban, suburban, small and large institutions with enrollments from 2,000 to more than 20,000 students. This experience includes public research universities, small private liberal arts, midsize Catholic universities to a predominantly online state university. Doctor Calhoun is a graduate of Rutgers University where he earned his bachelor's of science while also participating as a full scholarship student athlete on the football team. He also earned his master's of public policy and administration from Cal State Long Beach and a doctorate of education from Northeastern University in Boston, Massachusetts. Von, welcome to SA Voices.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:01:46]: Hello. How's it going? Thank you for having me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:48]: It's such a joy for me to be able to meet with guests in person because normally we're across time zones and on a Zoom box and things like that. So I really appreciate you taking time out of your conference to connect with us.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:01:59]: Absolutely. Happy to share anything and answer anything.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:02]: In our theme of transitions, when we got your story for casting, we just looked at it and went, we really wanna talk to you.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:02:07]: Okay.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:07]: Because your story, I think, is kind of unique in the world of student affairs, but also unique in that you've kind of been in a lot of different spaces before figuring out that your space, your professional purpose is here.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:02:20]: Absolutely. It took me a while.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:21]: So we know you're at Seton Hall now. We always like to know how you got to that seat, but we'd love for you to trace that journey through the beginning of sport.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:02:29]: Wow. No. That's just fantastic question. And, you know, my journey, it's something that I could not have mapped out. Yep. It it was something that really took shape while I was a student athlete. I played football at Rutgers. And in my 1st year at Rutgers, I blew my knee out.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:02:45]: And that was one of those things that you always think that happens to somebody else.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:50]: Yeah.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:02:50]: But when it happens to you, it's kinda like, oh my god. Like, it's happening. And not long after that, my head coach, he was fired. So these 2 big life moment events happened within 3 or 4 months of each other. And while I was at Rutgers, to compound that, at least at the time, I was steered into a major because it was athletic friendly. And that set me up on a course for not necessarily focusing as much as I probably should have on academics. And once I finished at Rutgers, I always tell people I graduated there, but I wasn't necessarily educated there. And that's a huge difference.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:03:22]: And it took me a while to kind of contextualize, well, what happened to me? And it wasn't until I read the book, The 40,000,000 Dollar Slave, The Rise, Fall, and Redemption of the Black Athlete, that really put it into context for me. And in particular, this book, it talks about the conveyor belt theory. Essentially, you have these institutions who go into black and brown neighborhoods and extract raw black or brown talent. And you're put on this figurative conveyor belt. And when you're on this belt, 1, you never know you're on the belt until you're off the belt. And the thing with the belt is there's always someone in front of you and someone behind you. Mhmm. And you move along this belt, and you get off the belt because you blow your knee out.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:03:58]: You aren't as good as they thought you were. And the consensus is next person up. And when the next person is up, you're essentially out. And when I read that, I was like, oh my god. I was a part of a system in which I didn't know until I read that. I was like, oh, that's what happened to me. And in that process, I was still trying to figure out, well, who am I now without sport? Because sport was something that I identified with since I was 6, 7 years old. And now here I am 21, 22 years old and it and it's over.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:04:25]: So now it's this journey of recreating myself. Like, who am I? And that led me on to going through a 1000000 different types of jobs. My first job out of college was shredding paper. Literally, shredding paper. I went back from my old school district and we were going from paper student records to electronic student records. This is 2004. And here I am, these boxes and boxes of student records. I'm literally scanning and shredding.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:04:50]: Wow. Scanning and shredding for 8 hours a day. I'm like, what the heck am I doing? And it gave me a lot of time to think in the process, and then that's when I decide, okay. I wanna go and try to be an authentic student. Go get my masters. It didn't really matter what it was. I just wanna explore this other piece of me that I didn't feel that I fully tapped into. So I ended up getting my or going to Cal State University Long Beach.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:05:13]: I'm originally from California. Going to Cal State Long Beach and I did my master's in public policy. And that's when I just started reading not just books on public policy, but just all types of books. Trying to figure out who am I in relation to the world.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:25]: So you invested in your education for yourself. Absolutely.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:05:28]: And during this process, there were so many things that I didn't realize about the world, about myself. And also in trying to find out who I am, I started taking on even more jobs. So I sold copy machines door to door in Los Angeles. And that was just something that I think everyone should try sales at least once. Just the experience of walking up to somebody and trying to sell something. Mhmm. And I remember I had this whole script. And my thing was walking into business parks and knocking on doors and saying, hey.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:05:55]: Can I talk to the person in charge of document management? And they're like, what's document management? And that was my end. Once you ask me a question, I can give you my spiel. So that was an experience. I even got put on a do not enter list because I was very persistent. And I kept going back and back and back trying to get the business. And then from there, I thought, okay. Maybe I wanna be an attorney. Maybe so then I took LSATs.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:06:15]: And then I said, well, maybe I might not wanna be an attorney. I might wanna be a police officer. I was driving down the 405 Freeway in Los Angeles, and there's this huge billboard that said LAPD hiring starting pay with a master's degree, $70,000. So I drove home, went online, put in my application, got called back for the written exam, and then got called back for the physical exam. And after I took my physical exam, it was about a 8 month period where it's just background check. In that time, I found me another job. I started working in insurance. And it was just this whirlwind of trying to figure myself out, but it wasn't until I had this one interesting interaction at Borders bookstore.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:06:50]: Remember Borders? It was like,

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:52]: oh, yeah. Mini Barnes and Noble.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:06:53]: Yeah. It was like it was like, you know, it was like Nike Reebok is Barnes and Noble's Borders. And I love Borders. But I walked in one day and this older gentleman looked like Bernie Sanders. Right? And he says, hey, did you play Rutgers? I'm like, mind you, I'm in Long Beach, California. How in the world does this guy know I played? And I barely even played. But I had a Rutgers Football t shirt on. He's, oh, okay.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:07:12]: He says, oh, it must have been a fantastic experience. Right? So, you know, older gentleman. So I sit down and have a conversation with them. And at the end of the conversation, you know, after I share my story with him, he goes, I can see it now. Vaughn Calhoun, athletic director, USC, Stanford, University of Texas. I'm like, oh, I've never even thought about myself in that way. Right? And he was the first gentleman, the first person who kinda put in my mind that I can maybe fix college athletics or do something about it because my experience as a student athlete wasn't the greatest one.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:42]: He was a total stranger.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:07:43]: Absolutely. Total stranger. Did did know him, but we spent at least an hour with each other. And subsequently, we kept talking, kept meeting with each other and he even introduced me to his network who was a sitting athletic director in Los Angeles. So he said, hey, I want you to meet my buddy. I'm like, okay. So now there's this whole world of college athletics on the administration side that I didn't know exist. Well, I knew it existed, but I didn't know, like, that was a path that I could take.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:08:06]: So now this is 2,008. I just got married and if you recall, we had the financial meltdown and crisis in the world was just going in bad places. And I decided in that period of time that I'm gonna leave my job and move across the country to pursue my doctoral degree. And everyone thought I was nuts. Even my parents, like, what are you doing? You're leaving because at the time, I was working at for a local government agency making, you know, pretty decent money. And I said, you know what? The money at that time money's important, but it wasn't important. Right? I said, this is the thing that I wanna do because I said, I wanna understand how a college works and where does athletics fit within an institution of higher education so I can be an athletic director and fix it. And then here I am moving to Boston.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:08:49]: Literally, set my car, My wife and I are now newlyweds in Boston. And I remember as I'm going through this transition, I get to my last year of my doctoral program, and my dean and I get very friendly. And he says to me, listen, Vaughn. I know what you're trying to do. You wanna fix college athletics, but the way that you feel about it, 1, are they gonna let you in? And 2, if they do let you in, do you have to uphold the system in which you don't believe in?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:09:14]: I was like, oh, dang. Those are some great questions.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:16]: That's a hard hard dissonance to deal with.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:09:18]: And I was like, what do I do? He said, well, I have door number 2. I said, well, what's door number 2? He said, you can teach. I said, who the heck am I gonna teach? And he said, listen, because my dissertation was on student athletes who were academically clustered, steered into a major because it was athletic friendly. It was a qualitative research study looking at the lived experience of student athletes who were clustered. So he says, I want you to come into my undergraduate class and just give a presentation on it. Right? So I said, okay.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:09:42]: So I did it once, did it twice, and then he says, do you feel comfortable with that now? I said, yeah. I feel pretty good because the students were very engaging. I was like, oh, this this is teaching, Oh, I can do this. He says, okay. Now I want you to start applying to faculty jobs. I was like, oh.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:53]: Oh, he's pathwaying you.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:09:54]: I was like, oh, you we didn't say I was like and he said just start applying. So I was like, alright. Let me start applying. So here I am, and now I'm sitting in these faculty interviews. And, hate to say this, even when I was in college, I didn't read my first book until spring semester senior year, cover to cover. So now here I am in these faculty interviews talking about my academic and teaching philosophies and all these things. And, you know, not in my distant past, I was that student who was just kind of out there and and not being a real student. Right? So I get a callback and says, you're hired.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:10:27]: I was like, oh, wow. Right? And that was just, you know, my pathway into higher ed working for a business department, at a small private liberal arts outside of Boston. And as I'm going through this, it really just, one, changed the way that I just thought about just myself in this phase of just recreation that I could create a new identity outside of just sports. But interestingly, I had a buddy who was moving from Maryland up to Boston at this one particular college. And I've heard of it. I drove past it every day. I didn't know much about it. And this college had a black male sitting college president.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:11:03]: I was like, that's pretty awesome. You don't really see that in particular within, like, Massachusetts. Mhmm. So I just Google searched him and he had these interviews and articles. So he's a really dynamic individual. So literally, on a Saturday morning, pulled my phone out, saw he had a Twitter, I tweeted at him. I was like, hey, you inspire me. And a few minutes later, he tweeted back.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:11:24]: He was like, thanks. So like, oh, you answered your old tweets. This is awesome. So I said, hey. Can I so now now I was like, okay? He I got him engaged. So I said, this is my opportunity. So I said, okay. I tweeted again, can I have the informational interview? Right? And I heard nothing.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:11:37]: I was like, oh, okay. You know, people are busy

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:39]: you know. Shot.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:11:40]: Right? Yeah. I'm gonna shoot You know, either 1 or 2 things can happen. You make it or you miss it. Yeah. But 2 weeks later, I get an email from his executive assistant that says, you know, the president wants to meet you. I was like, oh, this is awesome. So now this is August 2015. So I go sit in the president's office.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:11:56]: We were there for 3 hours literally. Wow. Just talking about his career, how he did what he did, why he did it, talked about myself, what I wanna do, what I think I wanna do. And in that meeting, he said to me, you can be a college president. I was like, woah. Again, right, just having these individuals, I couldn't plan for that. Right? So a few months later or within this interim period, we would text and talk. He introduced me to his network, and my job's August 20 15.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:12:21]: So a few months later, December 2015 and again, we never talked about jobs. Just philosophy about life and stuff. And he says, I wanna offer you a job. I want you to work for me. I was like, oh, okay. I got a job over here, but I like what you're saying just in terms of just his energy and enthusiasm. So I went and worked for this guy, and he would literally bring me into meetings I had no business being in. He hired me as an an assistant professor, which eventually I I was elevated to the chair of the chair of the department sitting as a faculty chair.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:12:51]: But I would go into these executive cabinet meetings and literally just sit on the wall with, you know, all the other VPs and they're all kinda looking at me, like, why is this guy here? And after every meeting, we would just have conversation about, okay, this is what's happening. This is why I said this, this, that, and the third. And, you know, this just happened, you know, over the next few years. And in this period of time, you know, he would bring me, like, literally into his, like, his personal life. Right? You know, he would bring me into his home with my wife and my son, you know, and and talk with his family, his wife, his kids. It it just became this this really awesome dynamic. And one day I just asked him, like, why are you doing this? Because he was just so generous. And he said, because someone did it for me.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:13:30]: I just asked that you do this for somebody else. I was like, I got you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:33]: Paying it forward in mentorship.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:13:35]: Absolutely. Right? So, and one of the things he said, by you working for me you're gonna know the questions to ask. I was like, I don't know what that means. So as I'm going up from my first AVP position, I was able during the interview to really diagnose and break down some of the nuances and ask these very specific questions. And I ended up getting the job, and I remember calling him after the final interview. He was like, I understand what you mean. I knew the questions to ask. Right? And I think those questions help separate me in terms of just how I looked at the position.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:14:06]: But, you know, it was just through these events and people, I couldn't have planned this out. And when I talk about this transition, it's just a lot of constant movement but being open to that movement. Being open to being vulnerable. Being open to saying, okay. I don't know what this is, but I wanna explore it. And that's one of the things that I share with a lot of my mentees. It's put yourself out there. Ask those questions because if you don't ask, you're not gonna know.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:14:29]: So I think these are the these things that we don't often talk about in particular, leaning into your network, finding those mentors. And I think mentorship becomes very cliche, like, find a mentor, have this mentor, but, no, really build those authentic relationships. And that has helped me tremendously. I couldn't be in this position without those individuals or it would have took me much much longer to sit in the seat at Seton Hall.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:50]: That is an extraordinary journey from being a d one football player to weaving your way through to this dean of students path now. Do you still see yourself on that pathway to a college presidency?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:15:02]: I aspire to higher leadership and I know that sometimes we're in such a hurry to get there. But in getting there, you're learning so many lessons. Even in in these past few years, I've learned so many lessons just about myself, about how to manage and lead people. Mhmm. So I definitely see myself on that trajectory and I definitely wanna get there. But one thing someone told me is like don't rush the process. Right? The process is the process. You know, you don't wanna end up getting there and not being ready for it.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:15:31]: So I'm very mindful of that and and making sure that I'm putting myself in positions to sit on different committees, to be a part of conversation that make me a little uncomfortable. Like, oh, I don't know too much about the nuances of finance and budgeting, but let me sit there with it. And I think if I continue doing these things, doing good work, opportunities will present itself.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:49]: You've had a nontraditional education path into student affairs itself. How did you get yourself up to speed with all of the student affairs literature and practice knowing you come from that MPP background, that faculty end. And student affairs for those of us who've kind of been in the field a while, I think there's generally a point of frustration when we see someone who's come from a pathway that didn't include that student development foundation, and then all of a sudden we're being led by this person. So how did you come from that place of humility while still bringing your expertise that you definitely had in the public policy space?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:16:20]: Yeah. I think one thing for me is I know that I don't know, and I'm not afraid to tell folks that I don't know that I need your help. And I think when you lead with that, folks typically look at that as a point of humility. I'm not gonna say I know more than you. Because truth is, you know, any new job that you walk into, folks who are there know more than you about that particular institution. So earlier in my career, part of what I did was I was an assistant athletic director for 3 and a half, 4 years at a small private liberal arts and reported up to the dean of students and we were housed within student affairs. So I was always a part of those a lot of my job was around the student success on the athletic side, but it was for a division 3 institution. Mhmm.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:17:05]: So the dynamics are a little bit different than division 1 where the emphasis on division 3 is the whole student. And division 1 does that, but I think more so like division 3, it is just part of the culture and fabric of we know that. More times than not, no one's turning pro. That's not what our goal is. We're not trying to generate revenue in that sense. And then for me, I got into this because I was driven by my own negative experience. Mhmm. So student success and making sure that students are always at the top of mind is something that I always talk about and that I always lead with.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:17:36]: So when people hear my story and when when people understand why I'm doing what I'm doing, knowing that I have this background that is a little unique, but it's always toward that north star of how are we helping our students. And I think once that gets conveyed and understood, it helps galvanize people.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:51]: How did that student athlete experience inform how you practice in student affairs now?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:17:56]: Being a student athlete, at least at the time, I felt that I wasn't heard, wasn't necessarily valued. So anytime I see a student engage with a student, I wanna make sure that they're heard, that they're validated. Because when in particular, if a student reaches my office, usually something didn't go right at some point along the way. Right? And whatever their challenges are is the most important thing to them in that moment. And me being a former just student athlete knowing that I wish I had an advocate, I wish I had someone who could really just stand up for me. I take that mindset. And even when I get these parent calls, knowing that I wish that my parents could have engaged with somebody and someone would have been receptive. So always taking that to heart and make sure that I never forget that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:38]: You've navigated a lot of change very successfully. Change and the mindset that you bring and kind of your philosophy around how you make transitions?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:18:55]: Yeah. You know, change is the really only constant and being open to it. Because I think so many times, generally speaking, folks are opposed to change because you always ask yourself, what does this mean for me? What am I gonna lose versus, well, what could I gain? And I always took the perspective of there are some things that I don't know that I know that I need to experience these things in order to become a better person and to elevate in my career. So if I would just sit back and what's comfortable, I'm not gonna grow. And interestingly, my son, he's 9 years old. And that's one thing that I really try to challenge him with. Right now he's doing Taekwondo and he's on the sparring team. And it can be pretty tough.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:19:30]: He has a really old school hard nose instructor. And my son always talks about, oh, this is getting tough. It's getting tough. I said, no. The tough part means that this is your growth phase. These are when the moments of you're gonna question yourself, but what are you gonna do in those moments? Are you gonna sit back or are you gonna meet the challenges? And that's something as a former student athlete, we couldn't just sit back and be comfortable. Because if we sit back and be comfortable, there's someone else that's working when we're not working. So constantly trying to say, how can we get better? How can we get that edge? Edge? And I take that with changes.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:20:01]: Things are moving. Right? And if I don't try to keep up with the change or get ahead of the change, we're going to be stunted in some way. And at the end of the day, the students will suffer for it. And I really think about this right, so when we think about AI, and I think one of the first reactions a year or so ago was this is the worst thing in the world. It's going to crush teaching. It's gonna crush learning. In some regards, it might to a certain extent, but also what are the opportunities of helping individuals? What are the opportunities in which we can streamline? And because students are going to enter a world that's AI driven, if we just turn our heads to that and pretend that it doesn't exist, we're doing them a disservice. Mhmm.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:20:36]: So how can we as a college community, staff, and faculty, educate ourselves so we can best educate our students and talk about it through through the lens of ethics. Talk about it through the lens of how these new technologies, though it could be different and scary, are gonna be the things that they're gonna need to be successful.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:52]: Well, and also AI is just not ChatGPT alone.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:20:56]: Absolutely. And I think

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:56]: that's been kind of the narrative in higher ed, that ChatGPT is the end of academic integrity. But there are also institutions that are using it really well for, like, auto replies when students need information

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:21:06]: That's right.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:07]: At 2 in the morning.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:21:07]: That's right.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:08]: Or, you know, texting services or or whatever. So there's lots of cool opportunities, but then there's also ethical issues around copyrights and particularly with arts.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:21:17]: Correct.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:17]: Things like that, so but I also came aware recently of an AI repository that's cataloging, like, millions of research papers, which will be an incredible resource for doctoral students of the future, which which I wish I had access to when I was doing my doctorate. So it'll make the lit review process faster in some ways, but I think also will start to discourage people from reading whole articles. I mean, let's be honest, we're always skimmers anyway, but but I think that will be a fascinating evolution too.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:21:41]: Absolutely.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:42]: Do you have any advice for student affairs professionals that are in their own space of transition right now?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:21:46]: I think for anyone in the space of transition, knowing that it's gonna be difficult to a certain extent, but also knowing that if you just stayed where you're at, can you really grow? And sometimes you have to go out and put yourself in those vulnerable positions. As simple as asking for a mentor. Asking someone, will you mentor me? And again, for me, it's they can either say 1 or 2 things. They can say yes, or they can say no, or they don't respond. But what I think, you know, going through transition just knowing, focusing on the process and not the outcome and knowing that the journey will be the journey, whatever that journey, whatever that process is, and just focus on doing good work, Focus on being as authentic as you can, and focus on surrounding yourself with individuals who will speak life and encourage you. And also make sure you have those individuals who tell you the truth because we don't always just want cheerleaders around. We want those individuals say, hey. Can I give you some constructive criticism or some critiques? And that's where you can learn the most so you don't have as many gaps as you would if you didn't have those individuals there.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:41]: And if you're able to hear that when it's given.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:22:43]: Yes. Right. You gotta be open to that. Because some people, you know, the the the Eagles can be very fragile, but you have to be able to really take that to say, okay. You know, they're saying this because they wanna help me, not hurt me in most cases.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:54]: Mhmm. I think that can be quite dependent on the, the provider of that advice. Absolutely. Solicited or unsolicited.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:22:59]: And if you don't ask to to solicit something from somebody, why would you listen to someone that you wouldn't solicit information from? So for me, it's making sure that you have good people around you who really care for your best interest.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:10]: Is there anything that you did in a transition that you look back and say, wow, I wish I would've done that a little differently?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:23:15]: I think it's always hard to gauge what you're gonna walk into. And you have an idea of what a situation is, but you never know what it's going to be until you actually get there. So for me, it's really just ground myself in knowing who I am and knowing my strengths as well as knowing where my gaps are and just being just just very honest with myself about that. And that can be hard for folks. Right? Every time, you know, folks say, you know, I I know all these things and I can do this. And you wanna be that go getter, but also at the same time, just just knowing that constantly learn as much as you can. And learning people, learning programs, and learning processes. Like, those like my 3 p's.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:23:51]: I wish I would've known that about 10 years ago, but every institution, there's people, there's programs, there's processes. Learn those as quickly as you can. Mhmm. And knowing that the process, again, will be the process. And have a lot of those informal conversations as much as you can and just getting to really know individuals as individuals.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:09]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:15]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a lot of things happening in NASPA. There's a brand new Leadership Exchange Magazine that recently came out for spring 2024. And if you've never read the Leadership Exchange, you definitely should. The Leadership Exchange is the magazine for all of our chief student affairs officers that NASPA puts out a number of times throughout the year. And this Springs Leadership Exchange Magazine is focused around preserving campus discourse. Inside of this magazine, you're going to see some amazing articles throughout the entire magazine that do talk about campus discourse and what you can do on your own campus to be able to protect free speech on your campus. There are some articles about visibility and promoting Afro Latinx students, understanding professional certification, and how you can elevate your own division through professional certification, and also talking about some of the stories of student affairs and also talking about some of the stories within student affairs.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:14]: These magazines are not just written for vice presidents for student affairs. So don't let that turn you away from learning, from reading this and taking out of it some amazing kernels of knowledge. You can access this on the NASPA website. Go to the NASPA website, click on public publications, and you'll see the Leadership Exchange is one of the publications that is available to you as a member. Also, there's a few other NASPA books that I wanted to share with you that you may find very helpful on your own campuses and in the work that you do. 1st and foremost is a book called Small and Mighty Student Affairs at Small Colleges and Universities. This book explores critical opportunities and challenges at higher education institutions with fewer than 5,000 students. Written by a diverse group of seasoned campus leaders, written by a diverse group of seasoned campus leaders, this comprehensive text covers a range of topics relevant to higher education and student affairs while providing detailed insights and action to take for and in support of to take for in support of and alongside students at small colleges and universities.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:20]: Thriving in the small college culture requires flexibility, collaboration, and the ability to shift rapidly within the changing environment of higher education. Small and Mighty offers thoughtful strategies and insights to help student affairs professionals identify innovative solutions, innovative solutions to some of the most pressing issues facing small colleges and universities today. This book was written by Carol Livingston, Krista Porter, and Thomas Shandley and it is a amazing book for anyone working at a small college or university. And I highly encourage you to pick up a copy today. Now this season we've been talking about transitions and one of the big transitions that many student affairs professionals will go through in their career is supervising others. Another book that is available is called Supervised Practice Connecting Professional Competency Areas to Professional Development and Student Affairs. Supervised practice has become a hallmark of how the field of higher education and student affairs prepares future professionals. This book explores how to create the conditions necessary for supervised practice and the graduate academic curriculum to be a seamless learning experience.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:28]: Becoming a supervisor is a hallmark of how the field of higher education and student affairs prepares future professionals. This book explores how to create affairs prepares future professionals. This book explores how to create the conditions necessary for supervised practice and the graduate academic curriculum to be a seamless learning experience. With a focus on the ACPA and NASPA professional competency areas as the bedrock for enhancing proficiency in the field. This book is designed to introduce the competency areas as they relate to supervised practice in graduate preparation programs. Chapters examine how to design experiences for students in the workplace that align with the ACPA and NASPA professional competency areas, create condition for graduate students to understand the application of theory within the workplace, establish an environment that promotes an understanding of the supervisory role as it relates to socializing and retaining new professionals in student affairs, create learning partnerships that focus on the intersection of individual development and the acquisition of knowledge and skills for administrative practice, develop professional philosophy of practice in the digital age, and assess the professional competency areas within the graduate the graduate practicum and employee experience to ensure learning and development. If you supervise graduate students or want to supervise graduate students in the future as they prepare to be professionals in the field, a brand new book called Supervised Practice Connecting Professional Competency Areas to Professional Development and Student Affairs is definitely a book you wanna pick up. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:00]: So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:22]: Chris, thank you so much for keeping us informed on going on in and around NASPA. And, Vaughn, we have now reached our lightning round.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:30:28]: Awesome.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:29]: I have 7 questions for you in 90 seconds.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:30:32]: Oh, alright. I'll do I'll do my best.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:34]: Bring out your competitive story. Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:30:41]: Oh, my god. Oh, jeez. It would be something with, my favorite artist. One of my favorite artist is Jay z. I don't know what, but something within his catalog.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:50]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:30:53]: I wanted to be a San Francisco 49er. I wanna be just like Jerry Rice.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:58]: Number 3. Who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:31:00]: Oh, that would be Dr. Robert Johnson, the current president of Western New England University.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:06]: Number 4. Your essential student affairs read. Anything that deals with student success. Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:31:14]: Oh, Ballers with Dwayne Rock Johnson.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:17]: Number 6, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:31:21]: Steven Bartlett, The Diaries of a CEO.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:23]: And finally, number 7. Any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:31:27]: Absolutely. I love to shout out my wife who's always been there for me, who's been a constant truth teller, but in a very loving way. And I'll also shout out my son. He's 9 years old. He keeps me young, and he keeps me on my toes as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:40]: Von, it's been just a joy to get to know you today. I'm very grateful that you took some time out of your conference to speak with us here on SA Voices. And if others would like to speak with you after the show, how can they find you?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:31:50]: They can find me on LinkedIn, Vaughn Calhoun, or they can find me at my email, Vaughn.calhoun@shu.edu.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:58]: Thank you so much for sharing your voice and your story with us today.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:32:01]: Thank you for having me. I appreciate you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:05]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us atsa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:46]: This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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Welcome to NASPA's SA Voices From the Field Podcast. This week we had an insightful conversation from our podcast with Dr. Stacey Malaret, a seasoned authority in student affairs, recorded at the NASPA annual conference in Seattle.

Transitioning Roles: Administrator to Educator

During the episode, Dr. Malaret, who has worked in student development since 1999 and serves as the Director for the Lead Scholars Academy at UCF, shared her insights on balancing administrative duties with academic responsibilities. She teaches leadership studies and serves on dissertation committees, embodying the blend of practitioner and scholar.

Generational Shifts in Leadership

Dr. Malaret highlighted the generational changes from millennials to Gen Z, stressing the unique leadership development needed for today's diverse student populations. UCF's Lead Scholars Academy and U-LEAD programs are testament to her progressive and adaptive methods, which now include a virtual leadership academy initiated eight years ago.

The Online Learning Curve

Our discussion also shed light on the augmented reality of higher education - online learning. Dr. Malaret emphasized the myth of online courses being 'easier', arguing that self-motivation is key to success in a digital classroom. While the asynchronous nature of online courses provides flexibility, it also demands a greater level of self-drive and discipline from students.

Bridging Academic and Student Affairs

A significant portion of our dialogue revolved around understanding the interplay between academic and student affairs. As a faculty member, Dr. Malaret brings a unique perspective to student success, bridging curricular and co-curricular experiences. Her involvement at both ends of the educational spectrum allows her to witness firsthand the impact of out-of-class experiences on academic success.

Advice for Aspiring Educators

For those aspiring to transition into teaching, Dr. Malaret suggested volunteering as a teaching assistant or adjunct professor to gain valuable classroom experience. She advised that understanding the academic calendar and significant dates can help student affairs professionals to be more empathetic and supportive of students during stressful times like finals and midterms.

The Balancing Act

Dr. Malaret affirmsedthat engaging in the classroom will enrich the abilities of student affairs professionals, influencing workshops, presentations, and even student interactions. By wearing multiple hats and thriving in each, Dr. Malaret serves as an inspirational figure for those navigating the complex landscape of student affairs and higher education.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:53]: She teaches educational leadership, strategies for success and leadership studies classes, in addition to chairing and serving on dissertation committees. Alright. Stacey, welcome to essay voices. Thank you. And we are recording live at the NASPA annual conference today. We're in a meeting room right now. So for our listeners, there's audio quality differences that you're noticing. It's we're really live in person, and so it's it's not a frequent thing that I get to interview frequent thing that I get to interview guests in person, so this is a really big treat for me as well.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:01:17]: Oh, me too. Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:18]: And you're at the University of Central Florida, and you have multiple hats, both as an administrator and as a faculty member. So we're gonna be talking today mostly about your transition between those two spaces and how those kind of supplement your work and understanding as a practitioner. Great. But we love to always start by asking our guests, how did you find your way into your current seat?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:01:39]: Well, back in the 1900, as my children would say, I was a really involved student leader. My father used to say I majored in Delta Zeta because that's all I talked about. Didn't really talk about my classes. And I think I had the traditional tap on the shoulder saying, hey. Have you heard about student affairs type of conversation? And I did my research pre Internet, you know, to try to find, you know, different institutions. And I ended up going to, actually, University of Central Florida for my master's. I'm from Orlando originally. Got an assistantship, worked in student activities, got my first job in student activities. And also, during my grad program, had a practicum teaching a SLS course as a strategies and learning success course at a, say, college with shout out to Dana Gentlemen, who's a good colleague that I've known for a long time now, and

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:32]: so shout out to Dana Genten, who's a good colleague that I've known for a long time now. And so whenever I meet someone from UCF, I always think of her.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:42]: Yes. I know Dana very well. Please tell her I said hi.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:02:43]: I will.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:43]: Back to your campus. So talk first a little bit about your day job. What is it that you're doing in the student affairs world mostly?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:02:49]: So I am a director of our leadership programs area. It's called the LEAD Scholars Academy. It's an academic and co curricular leadership development program for incoming 1st year students, and then we also have a program for upper class students, which we call U LEAD.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:02]: It's been an interesting generational transition time right now between what we thought millennials needed in leadership space to now what we're seeing Gen Z is needing and they're very different things. What are you doing to adapt your practice to the generational mindset that we're seeing now?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:03:18]: Well, one thing that we started probably about 8 years ago is a virtual leo Leadership Academy. It has 8 different modules on various leadership topics that any student with a UCF ID can log in and do at their leisure. We did that because we found that students wanted that virtual space as available to them. Whether or not they take advantage of it is another question.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:40]: Of course.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:03:41]: But they wanted to have that. And I've seen different colleagues who have used that for training their own student leaders. So if maybe they couldn't take a leadership class, this was kind of the next best thing that they could say, okay. Well, before you become a peer mentor with us or a resident assistant or orientation leader or what have you. Take this virtual leadership academy so you get the basics of what leadership is as part of their training process.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:04]: And you said that was developed 8 years ago. Correct. So you were doing virtual online learning before it was cool?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:04:09]: We were ahead of the curve. Yes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:12]: So as you're looking ahead, how has that curriculum evolved over time?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:04:16]: Well, we have adopted the social change model as our basis for leadership development, but then we've supplemented throughout the years with other leadership theories, and we started doing strengths quests this past year. So we've been adding to the social change model as our base what we think would be good for students to learn and know about themselves and others.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:40]: For those who aren't familiar with the social change model, can you give us a a 30 second CliffsNotes?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:04:45]: Sure. So Susan Komaviz is one of the authors of the social change model, and it focuses on individual values, group values, and societal values, and how to make the world a better place. So learning about yourself, learning how to work with others, and learning how to take that knowledge and help with your community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:02]: It's a unique leadership model because it's one of the few that was co developed in community with other leaders as opposed to one person being, like, here's my idea of leadership. So they kind of modeled their own leadership values and theory by creating it in their way. So if you've not read The Social Change Model, I would encourage you to do so. And, also, it's one of those ones that has a beautiful abbreviation. They always talk about the 7 c's and the 3 buckets.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:05:24]: And students really resonate with it because they can say, oh, well, I focus on this c, or I focus on, you know, collaboration or consciousness of self. I learned in strengths quest. I learned this about myself, and I'm able to relate it to a model. So it makes them feel a little bit more connected with our curriculum.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:42]: And one of my favorite things about the 7 c's model too is that you can really focus kind of in a module based form on each of the c's as opposed to, kind of looking at this long nebulous trajectory of leadership. You can really, really kind of narrow in on common purpose or civility Contribution. Yeah. Those types of things. So there's a lot of amazing institutions doing good work with

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:06:03]: Yeah.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:03]: This framework right now. I actually just had a conversation this morning in the Global, Division Leadership Board with a good colleague from South Africa who was saying, oh my gosh, we're using the social change model at our universities at Stellenbosch in South Africa, and I also see us talking about it here in the US. So that one's really permeating right now. And then your side hustle quote unquote is working as a faculty member. What are you doing in that space?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:06:29]: So I teach a Strategies for Success course for incoming freshmen, and I also teach in the higher ed program as well at our institution.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:37]: And I believe you're also advising doctoral

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:06:47]: their their dissertation chair, and then I also serve on committees as well. And that's a great way to help with the highest level students going into this field or just wanting to further their education.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:59]: You're really spanning the corners of the

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:07:01]: Freshman to doctorate.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:02]: Yes. Freshman to doctorate from Orlando to Seattle.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:07:06]: Right. And I and I actually were in Seattle, and I took a walk yesterday around town, and I passed by the City University of Seattle campus. I took a picture. I was like, oh, maybe I should go and get my faculty ID.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:16]: Did you get it?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:07:17]: No. It was Sunday, so I didn't. But I was like, maybe I should today.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:20]: I think that's a be a fun souvenir from Yeah. Your trip to Seattle. And in thinking about what you're seeing in evolution and transition of the research right now, I know we went through a period of time where everyone was really intense about wanting to research the impacts of the pandemic. And I think we're starting to see that soften a little bit on the research and and now. What are you seeing that doctoral students are most interested in studying in the present?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:07:42]: Well, I have a lot of students who are studying diverse components of higher education. So, for example, the black woman's experience in the faculty world. Or I have one who's focusing on humor and how practitioners need humor in order just to get through the day. And so how do they cope with their day to day job? So it's very diverse. I don't have a really one area that students are picking up. It really depends on their individual interest. I

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:19]: education faculty space. Mhmm. Because I think in our academy, you know, that we do have a knowledge community here in NASPA called Student Affairs Partnering with Academic Affairs, but those who are not insiders to higher ed don't necessarily understand the level of chasm that can exist between administration side and faculty side. So Yeah. I'd love to hear about how you transition your mindset between both roles, and then also kind of bring those pieces together for your colleagues that are in either space.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:08:45]: Well, first, in order to kinda get into the space, you need experience to get the experience, which is kind of the mantra in student affairs. And so if we have graduate students listening, I would say volunteer to serve as a graduate teaching assistant for free with a faculty member, whether it's a freshman seminar course or a leadership course or something that is more aligned with the student affairs area. Freshman seminar strategies for success, things like that are college one zero one courses are typically the one that has the biggest comparison to student affairs and biggest likeliness to have some topics that are in both areas. So I would say volunteer. Even if you're a practitioner, see if you could volunteer. Mhmm. You know, because that's how I got my first side hustle gig when I was working in student activities. I did that one GTA experience for a practicum and it was on my resume and they needed an adjunct for a freshman seminar course.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:09:38]: And they said, Stacey, you have experience. You could do this. And I kinda faked it till I made it. I was like, sure. I could do this. And just kind of struggled along and had mentors who were faculty members, like, you know, asked them, can you share your lesson plans? Can you give what you do? And I think that's really important the first time you teach is find someone who's taught it before to help you along. And so I think that there is a great relationship between teaching those types of courses and being a practitioner because you're able to see the students in a different mindset. Mhmm.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:10:08]: You can read their reflections that they may have spoken to you individually about how they're doing or about their academic advising. So there's a great relationship between student success coaching, academic advising, and teaching a freshman seminar type class. Because in my class, I have them talk about what they're taking next semester, Have them talk about what their major is, what they wanna do when they graduate. And those are all conversations that practitioners have normally with students. It's just in a more academic context, and you're grading them. You wouldn't grade them talking to them. Right. But you'd be grading them about their ability to reflect, and I think it's a great way to get to know the students in a different lens.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:48]: I am curious if you have any advice for practitioners who are looking to teach their first course, but do need to be or deserve to be compensated for that first course because it's a great privilege to be able to volunteer one's time for that type of thing. And in student affairs especially, I think we give away our time for free a lot. Yes. And so how would you kind of take that first step inside of that world if you do want to or need to be paid for that work?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:11:11]: Well, I would first talk to whoever the department chair is and say what is the compensation for adjuncts.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:16]: Mhmm. Which we know is not great.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:11:18]: Yeah. It could range anywhere from 1,000 to 5 $1,000, I've seen. And, you know, try to get your foot in the door and get one of those classes, and then you can expand to other universities. It doesn't have to be the one that you work at. You can work for a community college or an online university.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:34]: Mhmm.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:11:35]: Sometimes they would require additional credentials, especially if you're teaching online to learn how to work the learning management system and develop modules online. I think a lot of faculty ask me for my program. They're like, oh, I can teach online. And I'm like, it's not that easy. No. You know, you have to learn how to teach online before you can teach online. And I think a lot of people are unaware of that back end work. And so if there's a way that you can do that ahead of time, get that credential, talk to your faculty center for teaching and learning or whatever it may be called your institution and ask, how do I get credentialed to teach online? If you have that already, you're a much more viable candidate to teach.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:16]: We're talking about micro credentials. We're not talking about Right.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:19]: No. No. No. Going back for another degree. No. No.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:12:21]: It would be probably an online course that you would take, a zero credit online course. Just to learn how to navigate your learning management system back end and how to engage students in an online format, things like that. And then use that to your advantage when you're asking about teaching and you might be chosen over others for that paid work.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:39]: And pedagogy is so different in online teaching versus kind of that live in person instruction.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:12:44]: Right. Learning how to be interactive with discussion boards because you're not gonna have that discussion. I do a live session every week on the chapter, and I teach the chapter. Whether or not students show up for that is a different thing, but I record them and I post them. And I think even if they don't watch them, I think students, knowing that they can, makes them feel more connected to the class, or at least I like to think so.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:07]: Well, online learning, I also feel like is the the wave of how we create access in higher education. Because of that asynchronous modeling, it allows people who have full time jobs or parenting schedules or other caregiver schedules or just unpredictable hours at their work to be able to engage in their course more effectively. I took a couple of online courses in my doctoral program, and it was fascinating how much I could learn from others through discussion boards, which was not something that I expected going into the process. Right. And then really felt by the time we got to meeting in person that I I kind of knew people and how they thought about things even though we had never had a live synchronous conversation. It's an interesting process. So when you are working with students in that online space, talk about the transition that you're seeing in their expectations for a class versus how they end up engaging.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:13:54]: I think sometimes students think that online classes are going to be easier.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:59]: They're so much harder than in person.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:14:01]: They they just think, oh, I'll just take it online, and I think that the motivation in online classes is tougher because you're not having that professor in front of you saying, this is due on Friday. Mhmm. You have to have the ability to go to the calendar and to log in to we use Canvas on a daily basis and see what's on your to do list. And have that self motivation to actually work on those assignments. So I think that's the toughest thing is, you know, I have more students fail in the online course sections than in the face to face course sections because I think that motivation is something that can't be taught and some students think that they're taking the easy way out by taking the online section.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:44]: And it's a much more self intrinsically motivated space. Right. Because oftentimes in the in person space it's a lot of work to get yourself to the class, but once you're in the class, it's easier to turn your brain on because you're in a focused time.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:14:55]: Right. And you're surrounded by like minded students, hopefully, who are wanting to do well, and when you surround yourself with others who want to do well, you rise to the occasion. Whereas in an asynchronous space, you're alone, unless you are really engaging in those discussion boards. But even if you are, sometimes it's harder to feel that sense of urgency to do well in the class when you don't see others also. What do

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:20]: you want student affairs practitioners to know, who haven't been in the classroom side about what we should be paying attention to that maybe we're not seeing in our day to day interactions with students.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:15:30]: Well, I think it's really important to know what's going on in the academic side of the house. Student affairs sometimes are siloed and don't think about student credit hour dollar generation or faculty policies or withdraw dates and things like that because they are focusing on the out of class experience. But students don't come typically to a university because of the out of class experiences. They're going because they have their major or they really like the academic rigor or they are is about the academics that they're drawn to because as we all know, they're a student leader, not a leader student. Mhmm. So academics you know, more about what's going on and the timelines, you should know when midterms are because you're going to be able to see a difference in your student. And you'll know when finals are because you might need to be more lenient with what the expectations are for your student leaders that week. So I think by being in the classroom, you're in tune with that schedule and what students are going through, and also are able to help support your students more because of your awareness.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:41]: What about in the inverse? What do you think that faculty are missing about the student affairs world, and how are you bringing that message in the other direction?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:16:48]: Yeah. I don't think faculty realize how important it is for students to be involved to develop those soft skills, which are so important in the real world regardless of what career path a student will go into. I'd like to tell students that your resume will get you the job, but your leadership skills get you the promotion. So sometimes faculty forget about those leadership skills and how important it is to be involved as a student leader so that you can gain those skills. So that when they are in the field that you are teaching in, they can rise and become stronger advocates for your field and to rise in different positions of the chain.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:26]: Any final thoughts for our listeners on the transitions between the faculty seat and the student affairs practitioner seat?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:17:34]: I would say teaching is a lot of fun. It really helps you think about the student experience in a different lens, and it's gonna make you a better practitioner practitioner if you're able to teach in the classroom because you're going to first learn about yourself and how to how to talk to students, how to interact with students, and that's going to translate into your practitioner role when you're doing workshops and presentations and even interviewing.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:00]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:06]: Thanks so much, Joe. Great to be back in the NASPA world. And recently, there has been some transformative news about the future of the Center For First Generation Student Success that I wanted to share with all of you today. Since its founding in 2017 as a joint initiative between NASPA and the Souter Foundation, the center has enjoyed great success built upon the foundation set by Eric and Deb Suter and their success with the original First Scholars model. The center has far surpassed NASPA's original goals. Now with 27 staff members, the center offers a wide array of programmatic offerings, national events, informative research, and of course, a robust and growing network of partners at 349 institutions representing 49 states and the District of Columbia. When you combine that with the professional development, research, data, networking, advocacy, and all the other resources provided by the center, and you can easily see why it's become the premier organization in the field of 1st generation student success. The success has prompted the center to take the next step in its evolution.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:15]: The Center For First Generation Student Success is becoming its own 501c3 organization. The vision and goals since inception was for NASPA to incubate the center until it was established as a leader in the field. While it will technically be a separate organization, the center will remain strategic partners with NASPA, the professional home for student affairs and an organization that is committed to cultivating student success. NASPA's long standing partnership with Eric and Deb Souter and the Souter Foundation as cofounders remains vital to the center's success. Since partnering with NASPA to create the center, the suitors commitment to the continuous growth and long term sustainability of the organization is the foundation on which the center's success is built, while their passion for creating economic opportunity and belief in the potential of 1st generation students is unparalleled. The transition to a 501c3 organization offers many benefits, providing more partner opportunities for higher education institutions, more ways for the philanthropic community to influence 1st generation success and outcomes 1st generation success and outcomes, and more opportunities for the center to drive transform to drive transformational change for institutions nationwide. Keep an eye out for some other exciting changes, some different names, but the center will continue to offer the same outstanding program services and support that you've come to expect while also growing to meet the needs of an evolving field.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:45]: Okay. We are back. Thank you, Chris, as always, for telling us what's going on in and around NASPA. There's a lot happening post conference, so I hope you've all made it home safely and you're gearing up towards the end of the year now. So we are very thrilled to be bringing you into our lightning round. I have 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. Okay.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:21:03]: These are unscripted because I is my go to karaoke song.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:16]: And we're here at the conference right now. Kevin Kruger just literally entered to the Bee Gees Stayin' Alive and, like, did a disco dance on stage. It was actually really fun. Yes. Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:21:27]: I don't know. You know, it was funny. I didn't have any women in my life who worked. Mhmm. And so that was a very interesting question. So I didn't really know what women did when I was 5. Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor? Probably doctor Joe Paul from University of Southern Mississippi. He was our vice president of student affairs and is now the president.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:48]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:21:51]: Oh, probably beginning your journey for our graduate students to learn how to navigate your 1st year in the profession. That's a NASBA publication.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:00]: Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:22:03]: This is Us. It is amazing.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:05]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:22:08]: the last year. Probably the student leadership programs knowledge community podcast, and I serve as a SLPKC co chair.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:15]: And finally, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:22:18]: I would love to give a shout out to everyone I've met at this conference and everyone who I hope to connect with afterwards.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:25]: It's been a pleasure getting to know you and hearing about the faculty side of your journey. Mostly we talk with practitioners on our show, so it's really great to get the balance on the other side. If folks would like to connect with you after the show, how can they find you?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:22:38]: Sure. My email is Stacey.Malaret@ucf.edu.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:42]: Thank you so much, Stacey, for sharing your voice with us.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:22:45]: Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:48]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Cratney. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:29]: This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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Diversity and Inclusion as Cornerstones

In the latest episode of NASPA's SA Voices From the Field, Dr. Jill Creighton emphasizes a critical component of student affairs - the unwavering commitment to justice, equity, diversity, inclusion, and belonging (JEDIB). Our seasoned panelists, hailing from various colleges and universities, underscore the weight these principles carry in their day-to-day operations, extending to job searches, mentorship, and general support within their respective institutions.

Intentional Hiring and Representation

Several panelists, such as Aquanetta Pinkert and Dr. Adrienne White, spotlight the importance of creating an environment where everyone feels they belong. They stress intentional hiring practices that not only look at qualifications but also give weight to lived experiences, ensuring teams mirror the diversity of the student body they serve.

Challenges and Alignment with Values

The current landscape, fraught with challenges in states like Louisiana and Florida, demands an active demonstration of DEI values. Taylor Kane and Shatera Davis explain the necessity of aligning personal values with those of their employers to effectuate genuine change and advocate for marginalized communities.

Growth and Empathy in Leadership

Evolving as empathetic leaders is key. Panelists discuss the need to incorporate DEI into everyday work, language, and team collaborations, recognizing that personal growth stems from understanding and championing diverse perspectives. Leaders like Dilna Cama and Sabina Kapoor emphasize the dynamic nature of DEI and its role in shaping mentorship and advocacy within higher education.

Support Systems and Professional Development

Rachael Amaro and Stephanie Cochrane highlight support systems' centrality in fostering an inclusive environment for staff and students. Professional development tailored to understanding and serving diverse student populations is not just an additive; it is the foundation upon which equitable student support is built.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of on transitions in student affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton. She, her, hers, your SA Voices from the field host. Hello, SA Voices. This is our final bonus episode from the annual conference in which you shared with us your thoughts on the 3 conference foci areas. If you haven't listened to the other 2, go ahead and check back for the previous 2 weeks to listen to your responses there. For today's focus area, we're looking at justice, equity, diversity, inclusion, and belonging. And the question we asked all of you was how do considerations of JED IB influence your approach to job searching, mentorship, and or support in the profession of student affairs? You all had some incredible responses to this one. Please enjoy this part of the conversation, and again, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us.

Acquanetta Pinkard [00:01:04]: I'm Acquanetta Pinkard. I am from Montgomery, Alabama. I work for Alabama State University and I am a trio professional for 23 years. It influences greatly because I believe everybody matters. Everybody matters, everybody in their respective place should have an opportunity to feel free, have a sense of belonging and be comfortable for whatever time that you you're in that space. So it's huge for me.

Taylor Cain [00:01:33]: I'm Taylor Cain. I work at the University of Georgia and serve as the director of engagement leadership and service there. I think when it comes to DEI efforts, you know, trying to keep those things always at the front of your mind, recognizing my own privilege that I have and the identities that I hold, the experiences that I've been fortunate enough to have, recognizing they might extend it to everybody, whether because of identities they might hold or because they don't have the financial backing right to attend a conference as great as NASPA. But trying to keep those things in mind and make opportunities for folks to to experience what they can where they are, within the local locality of where they're at and what they're able to to do. I think when it comes to the work that we do in supporting students is recognizing how I show up, how I take the time to spend with folks to better understand their lived experience, let that inform how I approach my work. And always I think recognizing and and trying to approach it with a little bit of humility. I've always got more to learn. I mean, I certainly don't know at all.

Taylor Cain [00:02:31]: So, I mean, I think that's that's certainly gonna be important. And, you know, I think at the end of the day, trying to find an employer or a place of employment that matches your values, where you feel like you can be yourself, that you can show up authentically and do good work, and to know that that you are salient to the purpose and mission of that institution. I think for me, I've I feel really lucky to be in a place where where those values align, but I've always encouraged folks that that whatever institution you're at may not always be it. And so trying to find opportunities where you at the end of the day can go home and feel good about what you're doing. Because that buy in, it's tough to sometimes achieve, but it's so important I think to your happiness and being feeling empowered in the role that you have. And so trying to find where you can have value alignment.

Adrienne White [00:03:16]: I'm doctor Adrienne White. I'm the director of student success coaching at George Mason University, and I use sheher pronouns. So as a black woman in higher education, I think mentorship is extremely important. Personally, did not have a mentor that helped me, and guide me through these processes. I kinda had to figure it out on myself, on my own. And so, you know, that's part of the drive for me to run the success coaching program at George Mason University because I wanna be able to make sure that all students have the resources and the support that they need to succeed. I also am very intentional with who I hire on my team. I have one of the most diverse teams at George Mason University because I knew it was important that my team needed to represent the student body.

Adrienne White [00:04:02]: We're one of the most diverse institutions in the country. Therefore, my team needed to reflect that as well. And so I prioritize who I hire and making sure that it's not just, you know, on look, it's on experiences, it's on background. It's it's encompassing everything to give everybody the opportunity, to work in student affairs because it's a field of belonging and inclusion, and it really starts at the top and making sure that we're intentional in our hiring decisions.

Susan Hua [00:04:33]: Hi. My name is Susan Hua. I use sheher pronouns, and I'm the director of diversity, equity, inclusion at the Community College of Aurora, which is an MSI HSI just outside of Denver, Colorado. Diversity, equity, inclusion plays a really, really big role for me when I job search or when I think about mentorship relationships or support. I think it's the foundation of everything that we do, and I know that with the current landscape of DEI being under attack in different states, it's ever more important for us to think about ways that we're centering DEI work for employees and for students, and to really think about how we're centering equity at the heart of the work that we're doing to embrace change for students in the future and to really ensure that higher education is open access for folks.

Aileen Hentz [00:05:12]: My name is Aileen Hentz. I'm at the University of Maryland as the program director of academic and student services. This is something that has been important to me since essentially day one, even long before I started my journey within higher education. I think for me, I'm looking for different opportunities and ways to better myself professionally by constantly expanding my network of support, places and people that I can, work and collaborate with to help better help students. I think also I've now, at this point, pushed harder. I don't just accept answers to questions that I don't think are fair or just. I try to see what I can do to help push an issue further, to really try to inspire broader and bigger change. To me, it's not just enough these days to just refer a student who's struggling with something to somewhere else, like our counseling center or our multicultural advocacy group. I still do that, but I also think to myself, well, what more can I do? And so I'll try to bring things to our department level and change policy within our department. And even within our diversity council at the college level, I'll bring different issues that I see or hear from my students to them to try and really push for change on a broader scale.

Stephen Rice [00:06:27]: Stephen Rice, director of the Office of Community Expectations at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles, California. It's important to really that people are seen in your positions, and so really thinking about diversity, equity, inclusion should be a foundation and framework in all the work that we do, especially with those we hire because our students are diverse populations, and so they should see the people that they often meet with may look like them too. And so if everyone looks the same, they're not able to really provide a different unique experience and opportunity for students. Often times, there's a trust that students may have, and when they see someone that looks like them, they're able to go to those individuals and create more tools and other opportunities for them to really grow and reach and be mentored so they'd be successful students and work forward. And then it's also with the staff that we have. When you're the only one, it's tough. And so when you're able to bring a very diverse, unique experience, people feel supported, they feel seen, and they provide the same for the students that they serve.

Amy Adam [00:07:19]: Hi. This is Amy Adam and I am from the University of Missouri in Columbia. I have been a student services support manager for 20 years, serving graduate students with diversity, equity, and inclusion that does very much influence my approach to mentorship and support in my profession. We have a lot of international students that we make sure that they feel supported and connected to campus. And I know they face a lot of adversity coming from another country, especially in the Midwest, so we really strive to make sure that they feel supported. And I'm also doing some work with students with disabilities as I finish up my master's in higher ed. So that's been really, really just enjoyable and satisfying to help that population of students make sure that they feel connected to campus, that they feel that sense of belonging, and show them that they can advocate for themselves and have a voice because their voice matters. So, really, we just kinda try to keep that in our mindset in our daily work just to make sure that those students are supported.

Stephanie Cochrane [00:08:27]: Hi. I'm Stephanie Cochrane. I'm the director of student services at Northeastern University in Toronto. I'm here for NASPA for just the Sunday pre conference around graduate students. Well, one of my passion projects since I started in the role was a mentorship program, a peer mentorship program. And so thinking about our international students, they really are looking for mentorship, guidance, support, any advice from their peers, and they're more likely to listen to their peers than to us sometimes. So thinking about the DEI piece, they feel that sense of belonging when there's somebody who's been through a similar experience to them. So having them connected with a mentor from their very first semester before they even arrive in Canada is super helpful for them with not just understanding navigating the Canadian landscape, the Toronto city, the cost of living, and then, of course, their academic journey. So having that is a really helpful way to think about DEI because it's from that peer to peer support, which is sometimes missing in higher education.

Shatera Davis [00:09:28]: Hi. My name is Shatera Davis. I use sheher pronouns. I'm the director of student affairs at Northeastern in Seattle. I mean, it's embedded in my identity as a black person, as a queer person. I can't work in a space that doesn't have that as core values. And if I choose a place that's like that, then I can find really quickly that it doesn't align with my values. And so it's probably the one it's the most important thing because it's who I am visibly.

Shatera Davis [00:09:50]: And so as I move and as I navigate to different higher ed institutions, I'm very direct in my questions, like, what have they done for historically marginalized students? What do they do for staff? What did they do during the pandemic? How were they kind to their staff in this new remote era and hybrid era? Like, how are they giving their staff benefits? And, like, those kinds of things, I'm asking those intentional questions because I wanna make sure that I'm in alignment with the values. It doesn't mean the higher education institution is bad, it just means it's not right for me. And so I just make sure that it's always in alignment for me because it's personal. I mean, it's embedded in my identity as a black person, as a queer person. I can't work in a space that doesn't have that as core values. And if I choose a place that's like that, then I can find really quickly that it doesn't align with my values and so it's probably the one it's the most important thing because it's who I am visibly and so as I move and as I navigate to different higher ed institutions, I'm very direct. My question is, like, what have they done for historically marginalized students? What do they do for staff? What did they do during the pandemic? How were they kind to their staff in this new remote era and hybrid era? Like, how are they giving their staff benefits? And, like, those kinds of things, I'm asking those intentional questions because I wanna make sure that I'm in alignment with the values. It doesn't mean the higher education institution is bad, it just means it's not right for me, and so I just make sure that it's always in alignment for me because it's personal.

Andy Wiegert [00:11:12]: I am Andy Wiegert, director of graduate student affairs, Arts and Sciences, Washington University in St. Louis. Yes, this has to actually, in my opinion, start from the moment we are interviewing candidates for positions and bringing people to our campus is that everything should be looked at through the lens of equity and the lens of inclusion. And so from the start, my stance, our stance is to be asking those questions upfront. So how do you define anti racism? How do you define things like this? Will you be a fit to be an actual mentor who recognizes this need for diversity? So we're doing that at the very, very early stages. That then translates to training, development, things like that, but if we're not doing it out of the gates, then we're gonna run into problems down the road.

Scott Peska [00:12:01]: Hi. Scott Peska, Waubonsee Community College, Assistant Provost of Student Services. I think in all three of these areas, job searching, mentorship, and support for the profession of student affairs, there's probably nothing more important than equity and injustice and looking at place that you're looking at to the the values of the institution reflect what your values are and you know and so as a student affairs professionals something that has come to my heart is just making sure that we can care for all of our students and that we can try to help them succeed no matter what their background and making sure that we can put the necessary supports there. And so if the institution doesn't have those same values, we gotta be able to look at that. And so I've always looked at it when job searching. I think when mentoring, talking to individuals, making sure that I'm reaching out to be able to provide those kind of supports all across the way.

Dilna Cama [00:12:48]: Dilna Cama. I am a director within student life at the Ohio State University, and I am part of the off campus and commuter knowledge community. I think that is part of our everyday life. It has to be something that we have ingrained not in just the work that we do, but the language we use, how we work with our teams, making sure that they not only understand where their perspective is coming from, but how that impacts other individuals on a team, in a community, whatever that might look like.

Sabina Kapoor [00:13:21]: My name is Sabina Kapoor, and I'm currently a full time doctoral student with Capella University. I spent over 20 years in higher education as a staff within student affairs, student success, and academic affairs. So as I've progressed in my career, I've focused more on staff so that they can better serve students. And I wanna go in deep with that, so that's why I'm pursuing the doctorate relationship between the organization and the employee. I'm gonna reference Pamela Hayes' model. If you've ever the acronym is ADDRESSING, and so it's looking at different different categories from age to disability to religion to sexual orientation, sexual gender identification, etcetera. And so all these different categories, a person could potentially be, what Pamela Hayes says is oppressed in some categories and privileged in others. So, for example, as a minority woman who's heterosexual, I'm privileged in the sexual orientation, but I'm repressed in the gender category and also in the ethnic and cultural category.

Sabina Kapoor [00:14:32]: So it's interesting because idea of minoritized is not all one side, you are minoritized or you're not. It's kind of looking at different facets of that. So I say that because I use that as a premise with anything. So when I'm looking for a job, when I'm mentoring others, I try to remember inclusivity and look at things from the other's perspective. And I'll be honest, my oppressed areas have been like traditional ones. So with emerging ones, and I'm in a privileged position, it's really interesting. It's I had to see things from a privileged lens, and that was an interesting learning experience because I'd never been in that situation. So I say that because it's all shapes and influences all of this, how I mentor, how I support others and advocate. My last position, I was a dean for student success at a dual designated HBU and HSI. And I think advocacy was probably the top thing that I was doing while I was there. So so all that to say, DEI, it's not just my premise, it's who I am. So it really influences everything that what I do in my career.

Carlie Weaver [00:15:44]: Hello. I am Carlie Weaver with Rose Hulman Institute of Technology. I'm a programs coordinator for the student activities in Union office. I did one of my assistantships with University of South Alabama during my grad school career, and so I did that with the Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Office, and it's something that I like to think about a lot when I'm making decisions, especially with such a student facing role. I like to think of diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging before I make pretty much any choice because I know that it is so influential in students' lives. So, even when I'm thinking about, like, what kind of programming to bring to campus, I'm thinking about the different populations that we have and what is of interest to those populations.

Roxanne Wright Watson [00:16:33]: Hi. My name is Roxanne Wright Watson. I'm from Lehigh Carbon Community College in Pennsylvania, and I'm happy to be here. I think it is not a matter of influencing because the bills of that will be paid. So so we need to make sure that it's for me, 1st and foremost, it is I think I just need to go to work, do what I gotta do, and go home. But having equity, diversity, and all of that within the institution is an added thing that now gives me help me to broaden my scope, help me to blossom, to bloom where I'm at. So it is an institution that support these values and goals, then I am more open. I give more of my self than it would be if I am just at an institution that is just not supportive of these values.

Carla Ortega Santori [00:17:34]: My name is Carla Ortega Santore. I work at Rice University. I am the strategic initiatives manager at the Doerr Institute For New Leaders at Rice University. And my job is really about helping students elevate their leadership capacity and to also elevate the capacity of all campuses to do really great leader developments in education. I'm actually from Puerto Rico, so whenever I'm looking for a job or when I'm looking for a mentor, I'm looking to see other familiar faces in the room, like, I'm seeing where I'm represented, seeing the kinds of students we work with. So that that's one thing I I usually look for. I also look for concrete ways, examples. I guess another way that influences my day to day professional life is when I also see I'm a IO psychologist by education, so I also look for research that's represented in that. So any evidence of impact, measurable outcomes that we see that are related to people of color and other underrepresented minorities is really important when I and I'm looking for any evidence based practices to apply, to implement with students, or for any support in the profession.

Rachael Amaro [00:18:55]: I'm Rachael Amaro. I'm the admissions and academic advisor for the Department of Educational Leadership within the College of Education at Cal State Fullerton. I think that, I mean, for sure with the mentorship piece, it's I have had a hard time finding people that I could rely on when I first started, but I think that's made me a little more active in trying to be a mentor to others. And I really appreciate the the trust that I can build with the team that I work with. You know, I have I have one immediate colleague in my department, but then all of us in in our college are on the same floor of the building we're in, and so it's been really great to get to know everybody and to make the time and the space for each other, and then because I've been there, for sure I've been on campus a lot longer than a lot of them, and so trying to let them know, you know, sort of what's what's going on, how to navigate things, especially because a lot of them, it's their first time working at a university, and I think it's really so important because most of us happen to be Latinx that a lot of the new hires have been, and so it's been really important to me to let them know things even about making sure sure they're putting money in their retirement, making sure they're doing these things that we just didn't necessarily always get taught. And even things as simple as, hey, when you're taking a vacation day, like, really take a vacation day. Use your time because you need to. Because we're so used to not being told how to navigate that from people in a supervisory positions who aren't used to the diversity that's coming up into the field. And so I think that's a really important part. Again, we talk about the hidden curriculum a lot for the students, but there's a hidden side for staff as well. And so when we come from families and parents who worked in factories and had a very different way of living and working, we also have to learn how to navigate these systems that we're now working in. And I think it's important to be able to share that with them so that they don't feel isolated or alienated and they feel like we're in this together.

Christine Wilson [00:21:00]: I'm Christine Wilson. I am in student affairs at UCLA. I have two roles. 1 is as the executive director for academic partnerships and the other is the program director for our masters in student affairs program. I think that justice, equity, diversity, and inclusion are at the forefront of everything that I do. It's a principle of our organization. It's part of the mission of our school of education where I'm program director and I teach. Our campus is incredibly diverse and if we don't consider that, then we are not serving our students. So if that's not something people are on board with, then they should not come to UCLA.

Olivia Ruggieri [00:21:42]: Hi there. My name is Olivia Ruggieri. I'm the associate director of administration operations for Northeastern University Seattle campus. I grew up in Pennsylvania, went to college in Florida, and came out here in 2013, but I've been working for the university since 2018. Well, my area, while we are definitely not HR, we do support searches on our campus. So one of my staff members, he will assist hiring managers in doing an inch initial evaluation of candidates and then help them design their searches. But recognizing that while we've made improvements in this area, we're not doing it as well as we could be. This summer, we're gonna be establishing a group that will ultimately create a set of DEI hiring standards, and we wanna make sure that there's strong representation from all types of folks on our campus, faculty, staff, and hopefully students, to ensure that we're hiring in the most equitable way. And I have to say that, like, since this has become a focus of mine, I look at job descriptions differently and just what I've learned about how to hire equitably and certain phrases raise flags for me because I realized that they may not represent welcomeness to all. So it's just become part of my practice and how I evaluate different opportunities.

Christle Foster [00:23:04]: Hi. My name is Christle Foster and I'm from Chesapeake College located on the Eastern Shore of Maryland in Y Mills. When it comes to my staff, because of the work that we do, so student focused, definitely diversity, equity, and inclusion is a part of that, especially with the populations we serve in Trio. That's definitely what we do as part of our mission. So when it comes to choosing staff and helping staff go through professional development, that's some of the things that we always look at. Whether it's in terms of ethnicity, accessibility, or ability, or unabilities in regards to education. We recently did, training with the University of Delaware who has a special program that's focused on students who are new or divergent, and it was exemplary. What they are doing there with a grant is just amazing. So we were able to get some information from them on how to help our students who are neurodivergent, or some of them are on spectrum, so to speak.

Nathalie Waite Brown [00:24:03]: My name is Nathalie Waite Brown. I am the assistant dean of students and director for graduate student life at Stevens Institute of Technology located in Hoboken, New Jersey. I think I approach those areas first and foremost from a personal perspective, notwithstanding all of the visible identities that I carry, I'm a 1st generation student, parents who migrated to the US in the early seventies. So I work with a large international student population, and I take those identities very much in leading how I work with them and being able to understand the potential need that's in front of them. And that runs the gamut. It's not limited to who I am, but also having a level of empathy and support in guiding the work and the resources that students need.

Dae'lyn Do [00:24:50]: My name is Dae'Lyn Do. I use sheher pronouns, and I am the associate director for the women in science and engineering residence program at the University of Michigan. And I am coming into the position of the WISA KC co chair. I think specifically when it comes to mentorship, something I always take into consideration that I do try to do myself, but I also encourage my students to do is to seek out a variety of different mentors who have different lived experiences. And so not just, I think we oftentimes talk about finding mentors who look like us or who share similar identities with us, which is really important, but I also think it's important to seek out folks who maybe don't because we learn different perspectives and different ways of looking at things that we might not if we just rely on the people who have the same lived experiences as us. And so, I think when it comes to thinking through our own efforts of justice and equity, our mentors are the people that we learn from and so trying to diversify our own support network is the best way to kind of get those different experiences and support.

Natalie DeRosa [00:25:55]: So my name is Natalie DeRosa, and I'm from Lehigh Carbon Community College in Schnecksville, Pennsylvania. I would say that those two terms, justice and equity, are central when I am doing job searching. Not only how the organization embraces those concepts, but also the person who is my direct support, that they are equity minded and justed justice minded themselves makes or breaks whether or not I feel like that organization is the right organization for me.

Dan Volchek [00:26:25]: Dan Volchek, assistant dean of student success at Harvard Griffin Grad School of Arts and Sciences. I look at DEI as a very important piece of dealing with my job search, mentorship, and support. I try to look at what we're doing with both our faculty, our staff, and our students in the DEI world and making sure we're addressing all of those issues and challenges that others may be facing that I may not have faced to make sure that I'm dealing with DEI in a positive manner.

Vaughn Calhoun [00:27:00]: Vaughn Calhoun, Seton Hall University, hehim. Yeah. I think looking for places and people with high social emotional intelligence, knowing that any place that I would think about or people I wanna engage with, that there's a high sense of empathy to help build those lasting relationships. Because I think without the empathy, it's it's hard to really move to higher levels of conversation. So if you could find that in organization and people, you found something really good.

Darlene Robinson [00:27:37]: My name is Darlene Robinson. I'm the RISE gen 1 director for Seton Hall University. I think it influences the career in the sense that I want to be on a level playing field. I wanna be considered as a person that is capable of certain things rather than just basing it off of filling a quota. I think it is fair enough to accept people for who they are and get to know them for them them as a person first before not even before, but without passing judgment based on certain discriminatory practices. Because in doing that, you get to know the person first and understand that we're all connected in some way.

Miguel Angel Hernandez [00:28:20]: Hello. My name is Miguel Angel Hernandez. I am the associate vice president and dean of students at San Francisco State University. What attracted me to student affairs to begin with is my curiosity about humans and human beings. And what has sustained me 24 years in this profession at this point in my life has been the curiosity that continues about the people I get to interact with, the students that continue to change and evolve and allow me to grow, and in many ways, stay young because we have to keep up, not keep up in a bad way, but just it is never a dull moment learning from our students, learning from our colleagues. And so when I think about DEI work, I think about my curiosity about life and how we evolve as people. I think about my own journey, how different I am today than when I first moved into my residence hall. I think about the beautiful places I've been able to visit and serve and work and the stories of those people, those places, those moments in time.

Miguel Angel Hernandez [00:29:17]: And so for me, DEI work is not about difference. It is about the stories of people, the stories of places that we get to visit and explore and learn. And so for me, I really think about that when I am mentoring, coaching, supervising, engaging with students. I think about it in my own search. As I consider opportunities, I think about what do I bring into spaces, what can I gain from spaces, And I use those thoughts to formulate questions for either the individuals that are asking me to consider a position and or while I am engaging in the search process? And so those types of aspects of diversity, equity, and inclusion, I think, keep that work very centered, very front, and create opportunities for us to continue again learning and growing in our profession.

David Chao [00:30:07]: Hello. My name is David Chao. My pronouns are hehim. I serve as the director of IT for student affairs at the University of Pittsburgh, and I'm also the chair of the technology knowledge community. As a first generation Asian American, you know, it's really important for me. I think coming to higher education from the corporate world, I think I've seen and been exposed to a very healthy environment where we're trying to be more open to all ideas and diversity is really, really important. It's strange because being an Asian American, as a minority, you think I'd be more sensitive to that, but I guess I didn't really always see that. And so I feel like my eyes are much more open to it, and my ability to help others and mentor and foster a collaborative and diverse environment, which is a challenge in our society today.

Melinda Stoops [00:30:47]: Hi. I am Melinda Stoops. I serve as the associate vice president for student health and wellness at Boston College. I think even though I've been in student affairs for a long time, I feel like this is one area that I consider a growth area. I am a middle aged white woman, and my background and my experiences certainly are related to my identity in in many ways. And I feel like the longer I'm in higher ed, the more I'm interacting with increasingly a more diverse student body, the more I have to learn. And so I just feel like as I do my work, whether it's being supervised or supervising, whether it's mentoring or being mentored, I feel like increasingly I really focus on being open to not making assumptions either about the other person, but also not making assumptions that even if I'm in a mentoring role that I have all the answers. That really, I have a lot to learn as well and taking time to really understand the person I'm working with and where they're coming from and their perspectives and sort of maximizing the impact we can both have on each other.

Derek Grubb [00:31:54]: Derek Grubb, Dean of Enrollment Management for Red Rocks Community College in Colorado. In terms of justice and equity, one of the biggest things I've been trying to do lately is really recognize to avoid agendas. And not so much agendas and meetings, but agendas in terms of having a predetermined outcome and really accepting people where they are and being able to really just sort of embrace those opportunities for challenging conversations and looking for new perspectives. So up on my wall right now is the, no agendas policy.

Matt Imboden [00:32:28]: My name is Matt Imboden. I use the he, him pronouns. I serve as the chief student services officer in the School of Business at Wake Forest University in North Carolina. And, for the past few years, I've also been chairing the administrators and graduate and professional student services knowledge community for NASPA. All those things I want. The funny thing about diversity, equity, inclusion, and justice work is it's one in the same with overall student success, sense of belonging, it's a 100% connected to student well-being. And so, sometimes I think we create these bifurcations and divisions and we create this little bucket and label it, you know, diversity programming. But especially as I think there's a lot of renewed pressures on those roles and leaders with the people that are exponents of those values that are institutions. It's even more important to just talk about the ways in which, no, our ability to recruit and retain students is one in the same with being good at that work. And for some reason, I think it takes on a life of its own or becomes a bit of a specter when people try to apply those labels in only certain places. But if we wanna win as institutions in the 21st century in the marketplaces we work in, you gotta figure out how all the things you just mentioned apply to your day in day out work.

Evette Castillo Clark [00:33:36]: Evette Castillo Clark, vice president for student life and dean of students at Lewis and Clark College, Portland, Oregon. So this is super important and critical because with job searching, with mentoring, and our profession, it is really important for us to have diverse professionals, diverse thinking, embracing different perspectives because it makes us rich, and it makes the whole organization stronger. So in our recruitment procedures, one of my things is that I want to make sure that whoever is, for example, sharing a search, that you've worked every angle to make sure that you have racial diversity, gender diversity, regional diversity, just a broad spectrum of backgrounds to get to the semifinalist pool and then also to try to get to the finalist pool. You make every effort to do that, and I employ that same model with student leadership. So in elections or looking at who do we want on our student employment to employ as student workers, orientation leaders, RAs. You want that to be a cross section because if you're doing community building work, you have to have leadership that looks like the people that you serve.

Madeline Frisk [00:34:48]: Hello. My name is Madeline Frisk. I work at Portland State University. I'm the coordinator of student government relations and advisor to Greek life. So I work with our student government, all of the committees and groups within that, as well as 4 strong and mighty small Greek life groups as well. I would say I especially think of diversity, equity, and inclusion in terms of how I support students and show up. At PSU, we have a lot of non traditional students. We're also becoming an emerging HSI and Anapisa institution. So I think about how I'm showing up and my identities, how I can better serve students, and I try to stay well informed, read, do a lot of research and background work so that I'm showing up for them and also try to provide them all the training that I can. It also helps to have other coworkers and people you can rely on to kind of fill in any gaps too. So I think that's really helped as well having people and allies in your life that you can rely on as well as, good coworkers and team as well as kind of with the support in the profession of student affairs. I recently started a book club at our institution within our LGBT affinity employee resource group and that's really helped me to kind of also build even more support for myself in this work and also people who I know I can rely on that can be additional supports for my students. So that's been really great.

Gene Zdziarski [00:36:15]: This is Gene Zdziarski. I'm vice president for student affairs at DePaul University. I think it's been one of the things that I find in my career trying to find a place where that sense of diversity and inclusion really is embraced and a part of things. I work at a Catholic university, and a lot of people have different opinions about the Catholic faith and everything else, but what I have to say is when I interviewed for the job there, one of the things I wanted to make sure was that, again, there was a sense of diversity, appreciation, and openness. We had an LGBTQA center. We had, LGBTQ studies. We have embraced other faiths and people, and that was extremely important to me. And I think something that perhaps people don't always look at when they look at a faith based institution, but I think you'll find that, again, that's an important piece of higher education, an important piece of our work in my career in student affairs.

Lyza Liriano [00:37:10]: Hello. My name is Lyza Liriano. I currently serve as an area coordinator at DePaul University in Housing and Residence Life. Originally, I am from Brooklyn, New York. It influences it a it a lot. I'm a queer woman of color, and so I want to make sure that the spaces that I walk into are going to be spaces where I feel safe and where there are students that look like me so that they know that they can come to me. My identity is very intersectional, and I think that that's one of my favorite parts of my identity, and there's been spaces that I've stepped into where I've had to choose, okay, am I going to focus on being a black woman today? Am I going to focus on being a queer woman today? And so creating those spaces of you can be all of that at once. And when I'm job searching, that is something that I'm very intentional about asking is what work do you do apart from sending students to the Black Student Center or the LGBTQ Student Center? What is your department actually doing to help these students? And so I also want it to be just someone that students can come to because I've been in spaces where I'm sometimes the only woman of color, and so I wanna make sure my students know, like, I'm creating space for myself so that in, you know, years to come when my students are out in the field, hopefully in student affairs, they also are going to have multiple seats at the table not just the one.

Jackie Cetera [00:38:28]: Jackie Cetera. I use sheher pronouns, and I serve as the director of residential education at Bucknell University in Pennsylvania. I find it's all in how people show up in their day to day and what they're doing to not only support students on our campus, but also employees, both faculty and staff. When we talk about the sense of belonging, I believe that it's really important for us as leaders, as our institutions to make sure that our faculty and staff have a sense of belonging so they can show up and do good work and provide opportunities and spaces for our students to also find that sense of belonging.

Lisa Landreman [00:39:15]: My name is Lisa Landerman. I'm the vice president for student affairs at Willamette University in Salem, Oregon. Similarly, I stay abreast of current issues. I am doing my own work through institutes, 1 on 1 consulting and every opportunity I can to talk with other colleagues around best practices, most effective strategies. I I also really try to center relationships so that there's this there's the book learning and research of our trends, but then there's also every individual's gonna have their own experience and their multiple identities that are gonna shape their experience at our particular institution. So, how I handle that and manage kind of issues of justice and equity, whether it's around language, practices, programs, initiatives in Oregon is different than when I was in Rhode Island, is different when I was at the University of Michigan. And so I think context matters, listening to our staff, again, creating space, trying to support affinity relationships for where that matters to people, sure that we are constantly looking at our policies, practices through an equity lens. And so every time we're writing a new policy, we look at that lens.

Lisa Landreman [00:40:27]: At least once a year, we take a moment to reflect on new programs, policies, or practices to ask questions. Who's at this event? Who does this impact? Who who's included? Whose voice was at the table when we created it? So all those kinds of checklists that come with looking at the subtle ways that the work that we do might impact people that of groups we're not members for some ways. Celebrating and recognizing heritage month's accomplishments of diverse folks in in our both in our community. I think in hiring, we do a lot to look at what biases do we bring, what biases we have that might not be about race, but that biases we have about the field or the job that might have an impact on people from different racial groups or identity groups. Right? And so it isn't always so overt, so I think doing our work around. Before every search, we do we we really come to the table and say, so what are our biases about? And we look at a resume. And, you know, we really scrutinize our job descriptions to make sure do are all those qualifications really necessary? Is that many years of experience really necessary? Are we really waiting what can really be learned on the job, and what really do people have to have experience coming? So those are those are all ways that we subtly sort of can bias our searches. Those are just some I could go on and on, but I I think the important point about this is that especially in this time, regardless of what's happening with legislators, we as individuals can shape our own practice to demonstrate where these values matter regardless of what offices aren't allowed to be in my campus. That's still a battle we need to fight. And just because that battle's being fought, doesn't mean it stops us from doing centering that as an important value.

Jackie Yun [00:42:08]: Hi. I'm Jackie Yun. I take the she series, and I serve as the executive director of the Harvard Griffin GSAS Student Center. I think it impacts everything. So I really am somebody who believes that DEI is not just held with folks that have that in their title, but it's really the responsibility of everyone at an institution to be considering that. And I think about this from my own experiences, whether or not I feel like I'm included in a community, but also in my management, my hiring, the way that I scaffold spaces for students, and so I think it's really important work.

Leanna Fenneberg [00:42:44]: Hello. This is Leanna Fenenberg. I'm the incoming chief student affairs officer at Duquesne University. Oh my gosh. Isn't that a big question? Right? I mean, I feel like for most of us, for many of us in student affairs, DEI work is at the core of our values and what we do and why we do it. So it's to professional searches, to professional development, to building a community of support for our students and for our staff. And so it is central to everything we do.

Jake Murphy [00:43:16]: Jake Murphy. I'm the director of prospective students services at OSU Institute of Technology, and I am over all recruitment and retention efforts at the university. So for me, it's probably a really big thing, but it's really tough in the state that I'm at because there's a whole mess concerning DEI work and justice and equity and inclusion work. So for me personally, it's a big factor in where I choose to go to work. I wanna make sure that the environment that I'm at is focused on making sure that the whole student is taken care of, but being place bound sometimes it makes it a little bit difficult. But also creating those environments is also really key and making sure that students feel supported, that they have a sense of community, and are able to be able to go through their out their student journey is extremely important. And mentorship for us, especially in, like, peer mentorship is very important to be able to create those spaces.

Larry Pakowski [00:44:13]: Larry Pakowski. I'm the vice president for student engagement, inclusion, and success at Aims Community College in Greeley, Colorado. I think we've gotta to look at the students we serve and at the end of the day that's one of the things that we want to be reflective of who we serve but we also want to embrace the the variety of different diverse cultures and backgrounds and things like that. Not only our students have, but our employees should have as well.

Jillaine Zenkelberger [00:44:37]: Hi. I'm doctor Jillaine Zenkelberger. I am the program coordinator over at Graduate Student Life at the University of Notre Dame. I think in my approach to all of these things, having the ability to touch base with a lot of people from different I don't have a master's in higher ed and things like that. Being able to see the diversity in our different backgrounds both educationally, but also racially, ethnically, etcetera, has been super important to me. And I think we bring all these different things to the table, and it's really been great to learn from everyone and their backgrounds of whatever they've done in their past lives, because I know all of us have many past lives sometimes. They're all bringing something, like, super important that I think is really invigorating student affairs because I work with a lot of people who's had past lives and they're really changing things in a lot of cool ways.

Kristen Merchant [00:45:48]: Hi everyone. I'm Kristen Merchant. I am from Rose Hulman Institute of Technology. I am the associate director of the Union and Student Activities Office there and also the director of our lead programs. With job searching, I think about whenever I'm doing my hiring actually for orientation. We always put an effort into putting a cohesive team together of a variety of different backgrounds and interests and majors and all the different ways that diversity can come into play. So that way, all of our new incoming students can see a face that they recognize, which is really, really important in the DEI world and is something that we always consider in any type of our hiring practices and any type of programming that I do is making sure that there is someone that they feel like they can go to.

Joe Lizza [00:46:35]: My name is doctor Joe Lizza. I'm the director of the Chamberlain Student Center and campus activities at Rowan University in New Jersey. It really is the idea that you want an institution that is respectful for others, supportive of others because you never know when you might be on that opposite side of the situation. So you might be in an institution or in a job role that you feel very comfortable, supported and you feel like you belong and it's very easy to kinda based on a different supervisor or a different university leadership, that could shift. I always look for places that really are respectful, very forward thinking, and they don't only just preach what their beliefs are and their values, but they also put them into action. And that's kinda reassuring to me as a professional in higher education for both for myself and my colleagues. I'm realizing that it's a good place to work, a place that will be supportive of life changes and different situations.

Joshua Allred [00:47:32]: My name's Joshua Allred. I work at Louisiana State University in the College of Agriculture as their manager of student services. That's challenging. It's certainly something that is on my mind constantly. I think living in Louisiana and in the South where there's lots of legislation recently, sort of very much anti DEI has been a challenge. So I'm not in a place where I can kind of up and move, unfortunately. I would in some ways, I kinda wish I could. So being on a campus and in a state where there's lots of uncertainty around, like, what does DEI look like in our state has been a challenge.

Joshua Allred [00:48:01]: And so we are very much in a place of kind of waiting to see what's gonna happen next. And again, I think finding folks where folks and groups of people where you can hold onto and feel safe and find little beacons of hope is helpful. It's not always there, but I'm a supervisor for an LGBTQIA plus organization in the College of Agriculture and that's been really helpful for me and something that I really knew and renewed importance in. And so that's kind of what I look towards is like the people and and the small things here and there. But certainly a consideration is just tough. It's tough when you can't move.

Joshua Allred [00:48:38]: Well, one of the things that I really enjoy about my job is being able to support and work with students, and those are all students, ethnicities, genders. Just being able to support those students in coming to NASPA and being able to learn from experts on how to best support students no matter who they are, no matter where they're from. So at Texas A&M, they give me the opportunity to go to professional development. They give me the opportunity to collaborate with my peers around the country. And during those times, that's what I wanna do. I'm always making sure that I'm talking to the experts in the field to make sure that I'm doing the best to support our students.

Judy Traveis [00:49:28]: Hi, everyone. I'm Judy Traveis. I'm the associate dean for the Graduate Student Success Center at the University of Florida. Again, from Florida, we've had DEI impacted, although we all believe in the diversity and what it brings to our campus and the inclusion and and equity piece. I believe institutions that do it well and thread it through all factors of the university, you can really see it. It's tangible and that in as I job search or look for other careers, if I should move institutions, that is something that's very important and I hold as a value in my heart to make sure that that it's not just on a website, that you can actually physically see how it's threaded through by the way the community and culture is on that campus.

Katie Caponera [00:50:23]: I'm Katie Caponera, director of student life at Harvard Divinity School. A commitment to all of those tenants, particularly justice, is really important to me personally and professionally. I'm fortunate to work at an institution where that is a key aspiration and goal of our community, and it's something that I would continue to foreground in looking at other types of institutions or future colleagues or partners. It's making sure all of our students feel that it's a space where they can thrive and be their full selves is of paramount importance and continuing to remain dedicated to those efforts, especially admit so much turmoil, I think, is underlines their importance more so.

Kathy Dilks [00:51:11]: My name is Kathy Dilks, and I am the director of graduate student and post doctoral affairs at the Icahn to create a team that is not only diverse, but diverse of thoughts. I think it's our responsibility to make certain that we are leaning into DEIB, and I try my hardest to make certain that I am never an impediment in that future.

Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:51:47]: Julie Payne Kirchmeier, vice president for student success for the university Indiana University. It's not really a system. It's a multi campus university, but we can say Indiana University System if that's easier for folk to kind of place the role. It's interesting the word considerations. How do considerations of, show up for me, good and bad, before I can lean into anything else. And I think that's a step we don't often do, particularly and we just jump into, oh, oh, well, of course, you know, Jedi work is important, and of course we're gonna do that. But because we don't stop and pause pause and think and unlearn a lot of what we know, we end up rushing to action so quickly, we cause more harm. And so I think that first step for me, because the question is influence your, is to pause, think, and remember that I have to be okay with who I am, good and bad, take the steps to do my own work, and then bring others into the fold, like, okay.

Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:52:54]: What are the resources we need in meaningful ways so that the work can move through always a lens of equity. So being an equity minded organization, human, professional, friend, partner, all the different components of your life.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:10]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:51]: This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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Empowering Student Voices:

The Digital Transformation The use of social media in higher education has evolved from a platform for personal expression to a crucial tool for professional development and student engagement. Dr. Josie Ahlquist shared her expertise on digital leadership, emphasizing how social media gives students and educators alike the power to craft their own narratives. Gone are the days when online behavior was solely interpreted through a lens of fear; instead, we must encourage responsible and purposeful digital engagement.

Revolutionizing Campus Culture:

From Traditional to Trailblazing The episode highlighted the need to transcend traditional roles and embrace the flexible, interconnected nature of campus culture. The drive to humanize the workplace converges with the desire to inspire meaningful mentorship and collaboration, both within student affairs and across various campus departments.

A Visionary Approach to Student Engagement

Dr. Alquist's curriculum, based on the social change model, teaches students to harness social media's potential for advocacy, community building, and change. Meanwhile, Dr. Jill Creighton's research brings to light the positive impact of social media on academic success, further advocating for its inclusion in student support strategies.

Leading by Example:

The Entrepreneurial Leap in Higher Education Chronicling her journey from campus professional to CEO, Dr. Alquist offers a candid look at the challenges and mental health tolls of entrepreneurial endeavors. Her experience underscores the importance of self-reflection, support systems, and the willingness to take risks - foundational elements that redefine professional growth in student affairs.

An Invitation to Shape the Future

Dr. Ahlquist and Dr. Creighton invite you to reflect on their own relationship with social media and its integration into higher education, encouraging continuous adaptation to the digital habits of a new generation of students. This conversation not only serves as a call to action for today's educators but a bridge to the untapped potential of tomorrow's student affairs landscape.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:48]: But first, let me introduce you to Josie. Dr. Josie Alquist guides educational leaders, organizations, and students to practice purpose full digital leadership through speaking, coaching, and consulting. Her practical evidence based frameworks empower clients to build and implement a digital engagement strategy that fits their life, audience, and purpose. Josie's work is grounded in the grant funded and award winning research that has allowed her to train 1,000 around the globe as a speaker, providing consulting services to institutions and companies, and coach professionals in branding, voice, and positioning. Josie's work has appeared in the Handbook Student Affairs Dialogues on Equity, Civility, and Safety. She also served as a co editor and author of The New Directions in Student Services volume, Engaging the Digital Generation and the New Directions in Student Leadership Volume, Going Digital in Student Leadership. In 2023, Dr. Alquist was selected as a NASPA pillar of the profession, one of the highest honors in our field in student affairs. She's a 3 time LinkedIn top voice in education and has been recognized by EdTech Magazine as one of the top 50 must read higher education technology blogs for 5 years.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:02]: Her podcast, Josie and the Podcast, has been featured by the Chronicle of Higher Education and Inside Higher Ed. Her new book, Digital Leadership in Higher Education, Purposeful Social Media in a Connected World, was listed as number 1 on Amazon's new release list for college and university student life. She received her EDD in education from Cal Lutheran and an MED in counseling from Northern Arizona with a BA in psychology and human development and family studies from South Dakota State University. Prior to her independent path, Josie spent nearly 15 years on college campuses in areas of student leadership, student activities, residence life, and student affairs communications and marketing. She previously served as a research associate and instructor at Florida State University Leadership Learning Research Center, where her curriculum builds digital literacy and leadership skills for undergraduates to doctoral students. For more information about Josie's research, speaking, coaching, and consulting, you can find her at www.josiealquist.com. That's josiea hlquist.com. You can also connect with Josie on Instagram, LinkedIn, X, and Facebook.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:07]: Josie, I'm so excited to continue our conversation.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:03:10]: I get, like, a half day with you today. It is so delightful. I need this every month.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:15]: And this is a double episode because Josie just interviewed me on her show, which dropped yesterday. Do you wanna plug that real quick?

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:03:24]: So my podcast is Josie and the podcast, and I get to interview amazing guests like Jill and talk about the intersection of marketing, communication, social media, and how to be a human on and offline.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:37]: How to be a human. That is a lesson that we are all continually relearning, I think. It's hard. It's hard. But it's a joy to have you on the show today because you have such an incredible breadth of experience in higher education both as an on campus professional and as a campus partner. As I mentioned in your bio, you recently received the Pillar of the Profession award, which is tremendous. You've authored a book. You've built an entire business that works directly with higher education.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:05]: But it didn't all start there. And so looking forward to hearing more about all of your transitions in career and the choices that you've made along the way to stay connected and anchored into the student affairs profession while serving a gap, that definitely exists in our profession. Let's start at the beginning. How did you find your way onto campus?

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:04:27]: Well, the minute I step foot on a campus, whether if it was a tour or where I ended up going to college at South Dakota State, I was hooked. The talents were in and I was one of those freshmen probably on a coffee table yelling, I love college. And, I don't go on coffee tables anymore because that could really hurt my knees. But I just absolutely loved it. The energy, the exploration, the exploration, the involvement, and had really great mentors that were like, well, Chelsea, it's not all the fun stuff of being an orientation leader. There's there's actually a lot of, you know, operations, but I found my way through that too. And also found my way as social media arrived on our campuses that I was really comfortable playing in the sandbox along with a lot of a lot of change. So from my roots in student affairs over 12 years at different campuses, I'm based in Los Angeles.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:05:23]: My last institution was Loyola Marymount and I also have always education is such a core identity of who I am and, values. Early on, my mom or my grandma and grandpa saying you gotta get your education, kid. And I just always knew I wanted to get my doctorate. And so the doctorate was kind of a spark that started a fire.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:05:48]: I didn't ever realize. I can pause there. I can keep going. I don't know.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:53]: Well, your dissertation I think we share this in our stories that our dissertations really led to career changes, which is fascinating. Your dissertation was on social media behavior with undergraduate students. What did you learn from that?

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:06:06]: I still feel like I am a interpreter of culture and generations and the internet And around 2013 is when I started my program, and then it was a very it was packed a diminished view of students' use of technology and especially for student leaders, I would hear a lot of talk about assuming students were doing the worst things possible online and I wasn't seeing that with my students. It went against, I feel like, who we are as practitioners that we're putting all this work into empowering them and giving them the tools and we know developmentally and you worked in conduct, you get it, you see that process, but we were making a lot of assumptions out of fear and so I wanted to know what were they really doing online, if it was as bad as we thought or not, because this also was the time where it was super black and white. Do not even look at your student stuff, don't let them connect with you. Some places, you still couldn't even have accounts as departments. It was it was very much scare tactics. And, honestly, that was one of the discoveries in my focus groups. Students would talk about their whole lives that they were educated about social media with fear. To catch a predator came up.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:41]: Oh, yeah.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:07:42]: Like, literally. And what was also so fascinating was they learned lessons based upon how the people in their lives older than them were making mistakes and or their peers, so they were just having to learn this stuff on the flight. Like, imagine dropping Josie, who grew up in Wyoming, on the 405 in LA without ever of driving in in a city before. You woulda had to tow my car out of there. I'm sorry. I just didn't have those skills, and sometimes that's what we're doing and or telling me before I get to LA how it you're gonna adapt you're not gonna make it unless you do x y z, and that kinda broke my heart a little bit. Like, again, we give so much and it's not even about, like, positive psychology but just tell them what to do then. What do you want them to do online? Like, they were so desperate that then they would say, well, this is how my RD, I've noticed, uses Facebook.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:08:36]: So maybe that's how an adult does Facebook even though there is no one way. We know that. Right? We get to make a million choices and so what came from that was a set of curriculum. I wanted to be able to share. I'm a I'm a sharer and this could be a framework you could teach your students And that also is what led then to me speaking to a lot of students in a new way because a lot of times they'd come to, like, my keynote or it to, like, get on LinkedIn or start a blog, share my story. No one told me I could share, but in a purposeful way. So I use the social change model as the framework in both the curriculum, but also what I was looking for. If the student leaders that we were putting so much investment in, if they were actually using those skills on social.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:09:37]: And I think the individual skills was definitely shown. Group skills are more harder. It was the time of the ice bucket challenge, so there was that kind of expression. Yeah. But overall, with a couple exceptions, they were they were using these tools in productive ways and I still think that holds true today that we need to give youth more credit than I think we're just assuming other tool. And so I just really got on a soapbox, Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:03]: If it's a topic you're passionate about, this is good. But I'll give a shout out to doctor Jason Foster, Positive Use of Social Media and Their Academic Success. And that was kind of similar to what you were seeing, a time where I was using social media to connect and build relationships with people. This is before it was a dumpster fire all the time, I think. And we were hearing the narrative that social media was so bad. And so we thought we wanted to contribute to the literature in a way that reflected, well, there's obviously some benefits here. Let's talk about them. And we found that students were using social media to be academically successful in group projects, which was a really interesting twist.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:48]: And, you know, we ended up getting cited in the handbook of qualitative research, I think, or social media research, something like that. And I was like, wow. I didn't think this was that profound, but it's nice to

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:10:58]: This is blowing my mind because I'm fairly positive I cited that paper.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:03]: And now That's really funny.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:11:04]: Source because I'm like, wait.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:11:08]: That's amazing. And but I think the one lesson looking back because it was so extreme that there was this negativity. I stayed in that positive, purposeful place because we know now 10 years later, there are so many ethical issues and concerns and things that need to change and are problematic that things are different. 10 years cycle.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:31]: So let's talk about those transitions then because Yeah. In in our theme of transitions, we've seen all sorts of things from our guests in different personal transitions. But one of the transitions I appreciate from your perspective is this longitudinal arc of how students are using social media, what the concerns are from different generations of students with social media use, and the trends that you're seeing for how student affairs professionals can actually connect with students because I know they don't want us on TikTok.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:12:02]: They do if you meet the culture and the content for that platform. If you show up like you would in an email or on LinkedIn, give them the ick. Like, let that you know, it'd be cringe and I think this is where the concept of time right now kind of blows my mind. I feel like I'm still in my thirties, that I am full blown ahead in my forties. Right? And the longer we're in these positions and we see lots of students come and go, but we can sometimes forget how much has changed in 10 years. So the students in my study, and a lot of them I'm still connected with and some of them are higher ed pros now, they are now full into millennials and we still are thinking about those students and sometimes communicating like those are still our students and meeting them on platforms that we were for example, Facebook groups were big back then. We still have people trying to keep Facebook groups alive for 1st year students, like class of whatever. I'm like, honey, they're on Discord.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:13:03]: They've made a subreddit of you already. The pacing is so much different of these other platforms and so that needs, our side needs to change. They've also grown up even further back than the students in my studies. So as early as when they were born, potentially, the second they came out, they had a paper trail, Good or bad? And we are also seeing more students come or preteens, teens, young adults having more frustrations that then they didn't get say in what their digital identity was early on and or we are also seeing them double down and become influencers on different platforms whether that's a micro influencer just talking about makeup or running or a million other things And so, we might be inviting new students to our campuses. They have influence that we didn't in college in addition to access, so lots of communications. I do think that education and curriculum has improved but honestly the majority of it is their own self. Education and peer education tends to be always some of the strongest factors. I think the other thing that's also who grew up with social media early in their careers and so now they are their own kind of digital natives in executive roles.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:14:35]: I had previous vice presidents that wouldn't touch any tools, let alone know what they are or be willing to access them. So I think 2 things are happening at once, both what our students are doing and what it's impacting our profession and future leaders use or even misuse.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:52]: We are all over the place as a profession in terms of our level of comfort with having a digital identity or digital footprint, as well as our level of capacity or skill base for how that's going for folks. You know, some of us are all in on all platforms. Some of us are partway in on some platforms and all in on others. And some of us are like, you just said Discord. What is that? So there's a level of all of these things. Right? Like, I'm on Discord. I'm on Slack.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:21]: I'm in the YouTube space. TikTok was banned in the country I was last in, so couldn't be on there. But Douyin was allowed, which is, like, the counterpart in the country. But there's also social media that is huge in other parts of the world that a lot of Americans have never heard of or use. Like, WeChat is, like, a tool of life

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:15:39]: Oh, yeah.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:40]: In a lot of Asia. Yes. And and you can't function without a WeChat account. It's where all the information is. So given all of this major big landscape, how would you recommend that student affairs professionals who want to gain digital skills and don't necessarily feel like they know how to do that go about the process.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:15:59]: I think just like how our students are sorting it out and how we seek out mentors and sponsors is to find those yourself. And the nice thing is you can just kind of lurk and scroll on your own, but I do highly encourage people to actually reach out, right? Like if someone aspires to be like you, I aspire to be like you, Joe. But I have a podcast or again, like, working internationally, like, reach out. Use the access not just for the likes and comment. That is my number one advice when students are doing their doctorate or masters. You have a secret sauce that somehow gets taken away after you graduate is that you just say you're a student, people will take your calls more often for guidance and mentorship and so I called up a lot of the people I was citing or just people that were talking a lot about social media and tech to ask some questions and now they're some of my closest colleagues and even friends. And so I guess my advice is you have to take it offline. You really do have to take the relationship piece.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:17:01]: The tools can be a spark, but they are not the source to keep it sustainable.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:07]: You wrote a book recently that was listed as number 1 for new college releases, which is very exciting, on Amazon, Digital Leadership and Higher Education, Purposeful Social Media in a Connected World. Now I don't want you to have to rehash your whole book, but I'm wondering if you have nuggets for professionals who are aspiring to increase their professional digital presence, both for their campuses and for the field.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:17:31]: Write the book. If you wanna write the book, make sure it's in the right place. The reason why you think you want to write a book, my number one piece of advice is write it with someone else. Or it might be great, maybe I was the queen of committee work. I loved it. I was good at it but also then I was, like, I just wanna close myself in my office and be alone. A book project where you're already with working with so many people, it might be a glorious thing for you to get to do something on your own. I would also say just like you need to rearrange the furniture of your life when you do your doctorate, a book will be the same that you will need to and or it's just not gonna get done.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:18:09]: And I would say what I have learned is make it a living thing. What I don't like about books is then they are printed and you can't change it like you can on the Internet. Mhmm. And my book is already very outdated. And I have to think about how do I keep contributing to that topic or leave it entirely and or what is the future versions of it, whether if it's me that's contributing or other people. And I think maybe that's just a lifelong learner in me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:38]: So now let's jump back because you are one of the most, I think, beautifully present people in the campus partner space. We know you well. We see you often. We see you engage with professionals both on and off campus. But that transition was, I think, a scarier leap when you made it than I think it's a little more common now. Tell us about making the determination to discontinue campus based work and, as you put it, accidentally build a business.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:19:08]: Yes. I think I blogged about this and shared a bit on my podcast, but I think it's good to share the full breadth of the story. I mean, not too long. I swear. I won't be too long winded because it was difficult not just in the doing but the unweaving and rebuilding of my identity. And so it started with applying for a position that I did not receive that was gutting and required me to reconsider and it was an internal position. And I looked around and I there was nowhere else on campus that I could see myself which also scared the heck out of me because I was 6 months into a doc program. I was like, well, is this place even for me? And my husband and I were out for a run.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:19:51]: I all of a sudden just start crying uncontrollably. He's like, did you fall? And he knew I was kind of having a hard time. And he's like, we're okay. Like, what if you just did school? And I'm like, who you. I've been working since I was 12. Work is my identity. I grew up in a low income and middle class family in Wyoming. My grandparents are all ranchers.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:20:13]: Like, work is what we do. It was never even a consideration of not doing. I sat on it for a couple of months and it started to grow on to me. So, honestly, it even started with the idea and so that might resonate with some listeners of what it means to just do school full time and not be contributing to your family or needing to take out other resources, that that internal struggle is real and validated. But then what I didn't anticipate was leaving my job then and the excitement and the going away parties that then went away in 2 months and I completely was in a free fall. My mental health, you know, you can that I discovered panic attacks and anxiety? And I've always, I think, had anxiety, but it cracked open, again, just doing school. And I had busied myself so much. Again, queen of committees. Put me in everything. Do everything. Output. So I blogged every day for 50 days and just poured myself into Twitter now x, where I found a community where student affairs used to be very active

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:21:30]: Of colleagues, friends, and just continue to go there. That was, like, my water cooler. And by the time I graduated, I was already starting to get invited to do speaking because I was blogging my coursework and you could still do this. Set up a substack and share what you wrote about on Black board, like or it literally could be, this is a quote from my paper that you did because that's how I just started to share the work I was doing. I was still terrified that what I was doing wasn't real or worthy. So I picked up, like, 4 adjunct positions at once and doing some speaking on the side. But I always had this, I need a plan b. So I'm still looking at jobs.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:22:15]: I'm, like, doing the speaker circuit thing. And it wasn't until, honestly, a couple years before the pandemic that I finally said, Josie, you need to make a commitment. Is this a business? Are you in or you're out? Because mentally, it's also tormenting. And so then I did. I've I I mean, I literally took out, like, a license that, you know, like I'm incorporated now and, brought on people to help me. And I just think to acknowledge and not to scare people of, like, you make this transition, there might be mental health impacts, like, things that were kind of already residing that I would say have resources ready for you at the ready and to bet on yourself too. I didn't bet on myself early enough because honestly, I think people listening in higher ed will get this. We're a perfectionist.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:23:07]: We don't want to fail. And I was scared if I called it a business and it didn't make it, then I was gonna be a failure. And that held me back though for what could've and is coming to be.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:19]: You've said a couple of things that I I think are really important to touch back to. And the first is that I think in student affairs, especially, there's a lot of identity wrapped up in the profession, in a job title, in a job function. I think that's partly because the outside world doesn't grasp the profession. And a lot of times, our own families and partners don't grasp the profession, and so we kind of hang on to the identity maybe a little bit tighter than other professions may. And so letting go of that is not just transitioning a career. It's figuring out where that piece of you goes or what happens to it, after you transition. That's a big one.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:23:59]: Well, and some of that is not knowing what box to check. NASCLA only just recently added a consultant membership or, you know, or I wouldn't be able to go to certain things. I had to have a campus affiliation and there was a sense of it wasn't embarrassment but I was very fearful people were gonna see me as an outsider, that I was gonna be cold calling them and so, I also I've always been centered in community and relationships which, so I've been doing sales but in a heart centered way because I need to work. I need to make it. I'm going to make this work. Right? But I had to do a lot of money stuff on weaving some of that money mindset things in order to build a business, that wasn't that was going to be productive. In higher ed very much. There's an entrepreneurship element to your transition and higher ed very much.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:59]: There's an entrepreneurship element to your transition story. I have a friend who researches entrepreneurship. They're an assistant professor in the College of Business, and that's kind of their their area of research. And they have found through their research that the most successful entrepreneurs are the ones who tilt in a 100%, the ones who actually take away their safety net, which is the most terrifying thing that you can do. But it sounds like that's what you did.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:25:23]: Yeah. You should have sent me that article. Yeah. And I think just even not saying I'm my only identity is entrepreneur, but not resisting that. And I don't have an MBA. I swear I don't know what I'm doing half the time on business side, but I'm seeking out different types of mentors. And I'm also finding others, and you're one of them now, in a different type of way that we need our own resources as campus partners in community, in how we can transform the industry too because it needs to be done from the outside. And it's not outside in a negative way.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:25:59]: It's actually more it's gonna be more impact full in the end.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:03]: Let's talk about that transition to being a CEO, so your your own boss and your own employee, but also a person who's driving their own schedule, driving when you work and when you don't, setting your own limits, deciding when enough is enough for a day, a week or a month, that feels really overwhelming to me, just looking at the lack of limit and needing to self impose as a person who also drives with a lot of purpose. How did you figure that out?

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:26:30]: Oh, trial and error and lots of therapy and hiring a coach. Mhmm. So I brought on a business coach and you'll just laugh at me what she caught on quickly that I was a workaholic that especially when the business wasn't doing well, to me, you just work more. It's almost like your punishment then. You have to work every single day. And one of her first homework assignments was, she's like, I want you to take every Sunday off. And I looked at her. We negotiated it to one Sunday off a month.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:27:00]: That's what I negotiated it down. I'm embarrassed. Like, I put up such a front that I couldn't even imagine what it would be to not work one day a week or what a month, let alone a whole weekend. And by the time we finished our work together, my husband and I also purchased an RV and I took off 6 weeks. So you can't sometimes we don't see how we are in our own ways. We need people and it doesn't mean you have to pay people to tell you that, but I needed that mirror because at the same time, I was completely this was toward the end of the book and, you know, we're in a pandemic. I was completely crumbling, like, the foundation was so weak and I just kept jumping on the trampoline, like, no, it's not. So I have known I've really I have to prioritize it.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:27:55]: I will edit this because it is a professional podcast. But I may be my own boss, but she can be a real bee sometimes. I have very high expectations of myself. So I need other people to help me make sure I'm staying grounded. And I've also realized that I don't like to work alone and while I'm sacrificing financially, in November, I brought on my very first full time employee which was both terrifying and exciting for someone else to be relying on you. But I'm also so strategically and to wanna grow. And but for some people listening, they might or you've already built your own person shop and that's that can be great too. We all we don't all need to turn into these big agencies or or whatever.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:28:51]: I think that's the other piece that I found. You get to define not only your time, but how you are going to structure your your business. It's so funny when you think about a dissertation is such a recipe card. Sure, you can mess it up, but, like, it is so structured.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:08]: Chapters 1 through 5, maybe 6.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:29:11]: Yeah. And then this is what you write, this is what you say, you've got this feedback. Being an entrepreneur is not a whole bunch of it. And I am a recovering control girly. And sometimes you have to let it go and sometimes you have to be like, what do I want? I could do anything today. Well, not always, but from now, I work at WeWork sometimes or I need to get out of the house more. So I also joined a gym that is right next to WeWork. Giving yourself permission to really pay attention how you work best and how

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:42]: you're gonna best make that impact. Can you talk a little bit about how your views on the profession changed from being a campus based professional to being a campus partner?

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:29:51]: Oh, wow. How they have changed. Well, it is nice to see that there is more of a acknowledgment of how the work by partners, by consultants, whatever they're called, are necessary and we're not it's not just about the money or adversarial. That's been just good for my own mental health and where I fit into things. I see much more macro things happening. I mean, we were just talking, before we started recording about we're losing really great people. We that our students need those people. The the mental health weight of this work, it makes me want to do something bigger than my myself or what my business provides.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:30:35]: And so that's why a lot of my work is just trying to put good minds together, whether if that's on a panel, in a Slack channel because I can't do it all, but I just wanna connect all the people to help because it still blows my mind how many people like, they say student affairs is a small world, but it's not. Even people I'm like, wait. You don't know each other? Like, how in the world does this not happen? And that that honestly brings me more joy sometimes than, like, being asked to speak somewhere is that then I get to I mean, it's the same thing with our students, right? We get to go see what they do with the rest of their lives. I would also say it's only to a certain extent, but so many of the challenges you're facing, a million others are on their institutions to like I'm not saying normalize it, but for example, social media, I can anticipate what I'm gonna be finding in consulting or coaching and exec. We we can be so hard on ourselves. We're not far enough along. Our engagement isn't going well. Just hear it from me.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:31:29]: Like, it's all a bit of a struggle. And that could kind of be nice to hear. Like, oh, it's not just me. I feel a little and that's not just with social. It could be a variety of different topic. Oh my gosh. And honestly, what I am finding is and what I'm bummed so bummed about, even in grad school and maybe programs are doing better now. I feel like I was hid from what our admissions and enrollment people really were doing and are up against

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:31:56]: And I think we're having because especially we're seeing student affairs and enrollment pair up but I I don't know if it was the institutions I was at or where I got my grad program but, like, I feel like it was, like, we don't talk about that. That's not your place. You just focus here. And I think that's such a disservice because even when I talk to marketers or enrollment people, I'm like, y'all are y'all are doing the work of student success, right? And even they're not hearing that. Mhmm. So somewhere in our echo chambers, that is being perpetuated to continue and I think the institutions that are doing the best, sure, we've got department names and divisions are we need a collective effort. We obviously all need to do what our work or tasks are meant to do, but it's not doing a service to, like, keep people not understanding how they could make an impact on enrollment. I really appreciate you

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:50]: mentioning that because I think that aligns with a lot of my experiences as well. Even, even sitting in an ADP or a CSAO seat, you know, the enrollment side can have a level of mystique to it. And it's interesting having spent a career in higher education, and I don't think I could advise, a high school student the best way to craft their application for admissions at this point because it is, a, still a little mystical, but, b, because it's different everywhere. And that's that's interesting if you really break it down on how siloed our profession can be within itself sometimes. But when we can connect those things, the power in that is really extraordinary.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:33:34]: Right. Even within in within our campus walls, in different divisions, we we're having similar challenges of retaining a certain type of staff or again, I just I think we're missing out so many ways of going back to the beginning of humanizing the work that we do and workplace challenges in addition to students just want to learn. And no matter what the title of the department is, sometimes that bureaucracy gets in the way. And I once I love social media because it kind of doesn't care. Like, a student's gonna find what they wanna find wherever they're gonna find it no matter what the title is. And if they can't find it on your website because they probably aren't, they're gonna ask on Reddit, and it may or may not be But I would say I am excited. I am energized and I just wanna say one more thing that I haven't said that I especially say to a lot of people that come to me. They're like, I wanna start my own business.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:34:38]: I wanna be a consultant. From the beginning, I had a partner in this with me, And we have gone ebbs and flows of sometimes it's more me, sometimes it's more him in order to do this work. That is a privileged place to be in that I fully acknowledge both financially, emotionally, that I wish people could just do the thing they wanna do immediately. But there were times if I didn't have a partner, I would also have needed another job or 2 to make ends meet. And I think people need to hear it both in an ethical way, but also there are ways that you could start doing speaking consulting immediately. There's no reason that you need to do it fully as a full time thing. That would also be great for you to get experience and to see if that's something that you'd really wanna do because it's not easy either. There's some some gritty parts of it that may not be a good fit.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:29]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:35]: Thanks so much, Jill. Glad to be back in the NASPA world to let you know about some amazing things that are happening in the profession. 1st and foremost, there are a few brand new NASPA books that are in the NASPA bookstore. The first, Student Affairs Professional Preparation, A Scholar Practitioner Guide to Contemporary Topics by Jackie Clark, Jeanette Smith and Associates. This book offers unique insights into critical issues facing higher education and student affairs. It was written by a diverse team of practitioners and faculty. This comprehensive volume serves as both a primer on contemporary topics and a tool for practitioners and students. Some of the chapters in the book address HISA matters that have been central to professional preparation for decades.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:23]: Others concern aspects that are emerging and evolving in unprecedented ways. Each chapter is written by a team consisting of at least 1 practitioner and at least 1 faculty member. This intentional partnership allows for a rich conversation that addresses both professionals in practice and students and faculty in preparation programs. The content can be directly used in practice or to generate critical lively conversations in the classroom. The authors have also included excellent resources for further reading and classroom activity. The second book, Crucial Collaborations, A Practical Framework to Ensure Access, Equity, and Inclusion for students with disabilities. This was written by Neil Lipsitz, Michael Berger, and Eileen Connellberger. Ensuring access and sense of belonging for students with disabilities in higher unique organizational structure, culture, faculty, staff, and students.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:25]: This book presents a cross functional framework that administrators, faculty, access service providers, parents and guardians, and students themselves that can be used in the review and responsibilities of each stakeholder who contributes to positive post secondary experiences for students with disabilities. The groundbreaking framework has many applications, including facilitating student inclusion and socialization, empowering stakeholders through shared knowledge, and assessing the efficacy and effectiveness of institutional programs for students with disabilities. Throughout the book, the authors discuss their personal and professional experiences to animate and operationalize the framework. One other thing that I wanted to share with all of you today is a brand new book in the NASPA book store. It's a book in the NASPA book store called The Business of Student Affairs Fundamental Skills for Student Affairs Professionals written by Larry Mineta and Ellen Jay Consulting. This book is a primer on the fundamental business related aspects of student affairs that all practitioners need to know. Drawing on his 46 year career in higher education, Larry Mineta, the author, presents critical skill sets to better equip student affairs practitioner educators to analyze circumstances, alter environments, invest in structures and programs, and lead campus progress. Topics include financing and budgeting, organizational design, human resources, facilities management, technology, auxiliary operations, legal issues and risk management, crisis management, strategic planning and communications.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:58]: The key takeaways in each chapter provide further guidance to achieve success in the field. For anyone going into student affairs or new to student affairs, you may find that many of the topics in this book may not have been covered in your graduate preparation program or maybe something that you just need more insight into. And this book definitely provides you with that insight. I highly encourage you to go to the NASPA bookstore today and check it out for yourself. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways, because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:20]: I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association, and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:50]: Chris, thank you so much for keeping us updated on what's going on in and around NASPA. We know we just came out of annual conference, but there is still a lot more opportunities for engagement. So I appreciate you letting us know what those are. And, Josie, we have reached our lightning round. I've got 7 questions for you, 90 seconds. Ready?

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:41:10]: Okay. Okay. I'm scared.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:12]: Number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:41:17]: Well, I am a conference keynote speaker. I have to pick Beyonce's new tunes. Any of the 3 that have come out recently, I think at that point, I wanted to be a swim coach.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:37]: I was a swimmer. Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:41:43]: Ed Cabellan. He brought me under his wing early, early days meeting on Twitter, and he sponsored to help me get to my very first ACPA conference to present

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:54]: with him. Number 4, your essential student affairs read. The Chronicle. Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:42:03]: Why did Tiger King immediately come to mind? It was not the best. It was just the first thing I thought of.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:08]: Oh my gosh.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:09]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:42:13]: Well, it is mine, Josie and the podcast, because of editing and creating. But, my Spotify rap tells me Armchair Expert is, all their different shows are super fun.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:27]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:42:31]: Oh my gosh. I think I'm especially maybe it's from the Barbie, Taylor Swift, Beyonce movement. It's a summer for women and girls, and I am also just, like, on fire about that. So I just wanna give a shout to all the women and girlies listening and, I mean, all gender unconforming identities that we need space and community and and being lifted up. And so I'm doing a lot of different groups and meetups to do things like that, but we're taking over, Jocey.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:00]: I'm so grateful to you for this 2 part episode. Again, part 1 dropped on Josie's podcast, Josie and the podcast. This is part 2 of the conversation. So if you'd like to go back and listen to part 1, go ahead and find her show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you download your podcasts. But, Josie, if folks would like to engage you as a consultant or just have a chat with you, how can they reach you?

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:43:21]: Well, you can find me at josiealquist.com, blogging, podcasting, all of the things. I am on Instagram, LinkedIn threads, x is swirling as it does. And I actually do have a TikTok, but currently it's all reactions to my husband's content, which is epic rap battles of history. So if you want that type of entertainment, you can go there. And as

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:44]: you search for Josie, so that's Alquist with an a h l q right in there. Josie, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:43:53]: Thanks for having me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:57]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Cratney. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:31]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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Navigating Unprecedented Challenges

The COVID-19 pandemic introduced a myriad set of challenges, upending the traditional norms and necessitating an urgent pivot towards empathetic leadership. Higher education, a particularly affected sector, had to swiftly evolve, fostering an environment where staff felt supported amidst the ensuing chaos.

Embodying Transparency and Support

Amy Hecht from FSU and Matt Imboden of Wake Forest University underline the importance of transparent communication and authentic actions from leaders. Through initiatives like FSU’s Culture and People program, leadership at these institutions exemplified the care and long-term investment in their staff’s career trajectories. Similarly, David Chao from the University of Pittsburgh highlighted a newfound focus on self-care, crucial for maintaining a balanced support system for students.

Spaces for Grief and Adaptation

Andy Wiegert at Washington University and Rachael Amaro of Cal State Fullerton share the vital role that organized grief spaces and an open line for support can play in sustaining staff well-being in times of loss. Melinda Stoops from Boston College emphasizes how institutional efforts to secure staff job assurance during such periods is a testament to caring leadership.

Professional Development and Well-being

Investment in professional growth and well-being, as recounted by Jackie Yoon from Harvard, ensures that employees feel valued and are more likely to contribute positively. The approach by Shatera Davis’s leadership at Northeastern in Seattle during the pandemic harmonizes with this by preserving jobs and maintaining a connected community despite quarantine.

Leading by Example

The narrative of Leanna Fenneberg from Duquesne University describes leading staff reductions with care, prioritizing a loving environment even during departures. Moreover, Darlene Robinson of Seton Hall University speaks to the strategic support provided by listening leaders who aid employees during career transitions.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:42]: And the question we asked you was can you share an example of a time or a hope when a supervisor or organization provided effective care and support to employees during times of significant change or uncertainty in their careers. A lot of you had some really wonderful examples of how your organization

Acquanetta Pinkard [00:01:07]: I'm Acquanetta Pinkard. I am from Montgomery, Alabama. I work for Alabama State University and I am a trio professional for 23 years. I believe that my supervisor as well as my campus have been very conscious of caring for the employees, giving us what we have need of whether that's time off, whether that's just opportunities to take a minute break, areas on campus where we could take minute breaks, and also providing just that continuum of care where we feel the liberty to be able to talk. So I think that that's what I've experienced.

Taylor Cain [00:01:45]: I'm Taylor Cain. I work at the University of Georgia and serve as the director of engagement leadership and service there. Well, I mean, the one that comes most comes to mind first, most recently we had, unfortunately, 2 deaths on our campus. 1 of a former student and one of a current student. And while all of us were trying to spring into action to figure out how to care for students, in the midst of that, I was really impressed by the institution trying to find also ways to support those who were caring for those students. Our vice president for student affairs, who is newer to her role but not to our institution, made really intentional efforts to reach out to folks via email or text or when she saw them to take the time to show appreciation and care for the work that they were doing, recognizing the importance of it, but also encouraging folks to take care of themselves. And I think little acts like that go much further than some people may realize. And I think it meant the world to the staff who were doing the work. In times of crisis or difficult issues on campus, it's always really nice, I think, to have that recognition and affirmation of you're doing a great job and I'm right here beside you. But don't forget to take care of yourself too.

Adrienne White [00:03:01]: I'm doctor Adrienne White. I'm the director of student success coaching at George Mason University, and I use sheher pronouns. I think my supervisor during COVID was remarkable in terms of how she supported us during certain times. And personally, during COVID, my mother was diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer. And so on top of dealing with personal things, I'm now having to also grapple with how am I supporting my team at the same time. But then, also, how am I supporting myself during all of this and putting well-being at the forefront of our work. And I was extremely blessed to have a supervisor that allowed me the autonomy to create well-being opportunities for my team, but also well-being opportunities that worked for me as well because I was my mother's primary caretaker. And so, I adjusted my schedule.

Adrienne White [00:03:53]: I went on 4:10 hour workday schedule because I needed to go to all a lot of doctor's appointments and be there with her during her treatment, and that was a significant moment in my life, in my career. And having the support of my supervisor and knowing that my supervisor has my back, right, knowing that my supervisor supports the decisions I need to make to take care of myself and to my team, you just can't put a number on that. It's incredibly important and has completely transformed my thought process and my leadership as well.

Susan Hua [00:04:29]: Hi. My name is Susan Hua. I use sheher pronouns, and I'm the director of diversity, equity, inclusion at the Community College of Aurora, which is an MSI HSI just outside of Denver, Colorado. A hope that I have for supervisors or organizations to provide effective care and support to employees is to really just be intentional about how they are mentoring and having conversations with their employees during times of uncertainty during their careers. I think it's helpful to understand and really holistically look at your employees instead of just seeing them as one role or one fraction of your department, and to really understand that they have lives outside of the field as well, and to understand how to support their whole selves in the work journey that they have.

Aileen Hentz [00:05:09]: My name is Aileen Hentz. I'm at the University of Maryland as the program director of academic and student services. I think constant communication was very important during times, especially when we're looking at budget cuts, furloughs, when we're looking at possible changing in policy that could have an impact on our office or our jobs. Just not being left in the dark was incredibly important, I think. So that kinda constant communication, opening things up. I loved when my supervisor was like, you know, I'm not supposed to tell you all this, but I'm gonna tell you anyway because I feel like you need to know. And that was really helpful for me when we were facing some of those uncertainties.

Stephen Rice [00:05:49]: Stephen Rice, director of the Office of Community Expectations at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles, California. I've been very fortunate to have a lot of supervisors who really take the time to get to know me and provide me with the resources and support. And so when tough times happen, they're able to really provide me with that information that I need. My current supervisor, Darren, always takes the time out to really talk to me about different cases and different situations. When things go awry, cause I work in student conduct, really provides that support that I need for those of things. And as an effect of that, I'm able to do that for the team that I supervise of 6 individuals to really help them in their growth through or different times and provide them support. And it goes with 1 on 1 conversations, getting to know who they are, what they're passionate about, understanding their strengths, tapping into those strengths, seeing things that they may not see about themselves, and really getting them to to do those different things and challenging support them in the way so they are very effective, in what they do. And as a result, they have better tools when they're looking for the next step that they're able to move forward with it.

Amy Adam [00:06:47]: Hi. This is Amy Adam, and I am from the University of Missouri in Columbia. I have been a student services support manager for 20 years serving graduate students. I've been so, so lucky in my 20 years with supervisors and organizations. I work in the School of Information Science and Learning Technologies. So we have mostly distant students, but all of the faculty and staff are located in the same building. Really, my first supervisor, doctor John Wedman, was one of a kind. He passed away about 9 years ago, but he really was that mentor to get me into student services and really just encouraged me to advocate for myself, advocate for my students, and to build the relationship with faculty, but to remember not to let them take advantage of me and the willingness that I have to do work. So, really, just making sure that I keep students first and foremost in my goal for my job has been the biggest thing. And really even through COVID, my current department chair has been amazing with flex time and just making sure that we take time for ourselves. You can't just sit at your desk all day. You've gotta get out, gotta get water, go take a break, go play with your dog. So I just feel very lucky that I've had that type of relationships with my supervisors.

Stephanie Cochrane [00:08:14]: Hi. I'm Stephanie Cochrane. I'm the director of student services at Northeastern University in Toronto. I'm here for NASPA for just the Sunday pre conference around graduate students. That's a great question. I think COVID created a huge shift in our entire world and our way of thinking about student support, and our dean at the Toronto campus has been really effectively caring for our our employees as well as our students, thinking about hiring the correct resources, asking for input from the people who are working there and dealing with the students on a daily basis to see what our students need and keeping that student centered mindset at all times.

Amy Hecht [00:08:52]: Hi. My name is Amy Hecht. I'm the vice president for student affairs at Florida State University. I've been there 7 years now. At Florida State, we've launched a new position and program called Culture and People, and it's really about helping people feel at home in Tallahassee where FSU is located, connecting to other people outside their division, celebrating people, and rewarding them, and also developing them, coaching them, and that's been very helpful for people to feel supported and valued, but also that somebody cares about their long term career trajectory.

Shatera Davis [00:09:32]: Hi. My name is Shaterra Davis. I use sheher pronouns. I'm the director of student affairs at Northeastern in Seattle. I think the most recent time and then the most impactful time was during the pandemic when I worked in housing before and everyone thought that they wouldn't have a job because our students were moving out. And so our leadership did a really great job of saying this is where we're at. I'm being transparent on what the leadership conversations were and then ultimately giving us opportunities to do other work besides being, like, resident directors in order to keep our jobs and keep our housing during that time. And then doing the most to make sure that we all felt community because while we were having to quarantine, we felt that we were all by ourselves. None of us have roommates, and so being intentionally using the spaces and the meetings we had to, like, build communities, check-in, and still just being transparent on where we're at and, like, how we're supporting students, but also how we're supporting ourselves during that time.

Andy Wiegert [00:10:25]: I am Andy Wiegert, Director of Graduate Student Affairs, Arts and Sciences, Washington University in Saint Louis. Gosh. Yeah. I mean, we've kind of seen a lot in our time. Obviously, having gone through COVID is the one that stands out the most, but we've also recently experienced things like, you know, a tragic death of a student. And that's really difficult because you have administrators who are both trying to support students, but at the same time are also experiencing their own grief and trauma. And so it really has been neat to see some of our leaders recognize that, acknowledge that, and create spaces not just for our students to grieve, but also for our staff, our faculty, and support folks.

Scott Peska [00:11:10]: Hi. Scott Peska, Waubonsee Community College, assistant provost of student services. I would say that this was a few years back, quite a few years back when I worked in res life, but I recall when 911 took place right there was some real challenge with direction during that time and really giving staff the space to not only help their students go through and kind of process, but to give us time to process individually was really important. And to really think about you're gonna deal with a lot of crisis management in higher education. And so are you prepared for this? You need to get yourself in a space to do that. And so being able to give us time to actually give us strategies, talk to people that were crisis managers and kinda looking at preparing that, that was helpful.

Dilna Cama [00:11:53]: Dilna Cama. I am a director within student life at the Ohio State University, and I am part of the off campus and commuter knowledge community. My most recent supervisor, he did our organization was down to 2 of us, and we were essentially scratching everything and building a start up. And his support and the way he really reminded me we can do anything, we can't do everything. And that's something I remind myself each and every day. And so really keep making sure that I'm focused on what is most important has really allowed me to remain positive. And definitely the way in which he provided support, I think, was very notable.

Sabina Kapoor [00:12:42]: My name is Sabina Kapoor, and I'm currently a a full time doctoral student with Capella University. I spent over 20 years in higher education as a staff within student affairs, student success, and academic affairs. So as I progressed in my career, I've focused more on staff so that they can better serve students. And I wanna go in deep with that, so that's why I'm pursuing the doctorate in IO Psychology because I wanna look at the relationship between the organization and the employee. What comes to mind is a few, the pandemic. During that time, a lot of universities were downsizing, and my university that I was at was no exception. And so it was really interesting because it was unprecedented in how many people were part of a workforce reduction. And so how the university supported people at that time, it was interesting.

Sabina Kapoor [00:13:31]: I think the university really didn't know how to. And then you had the people that stayed that weren't, let go. And so I felt like they had survivor's remorse, and so it's real interesting. And so I think now is something hopefully, that won't happen again to that extent, not just my previous university, but other universities and colleges as well. But if it did, I think institutions know now how to handle that better and have that human touch.

Carlie Weaver [00:14:01]: Hello. I am Carlie Weaver with Rose Hulman Institute of Technology. I'm a programs coordinator for the student activities in Union office. I'm not really sure how to answer that because I do feel like I don't really find myself being uncertain in my career because my supervisor, Kristen Merchant, hurt you, and Kristen Lloyd are very, very supportive in helping me to find my footing in my own voice and my role.

Roxanne Wright Watson [00:14:31]: Hi. My name is Roxanne Wright Watson. I'm from Lehigh Carbon Community College in Pennsylvania, and I'm happy to be here. I think my direct supervisor, my dean, is supportive of what we do in the classroom, how we help our students. And in particular, a situation that I can recall is during COVID. During COVID, I think they were supportive to us in terms of having to just switch from face to face classes to online classes. The support was there. The support in getting things to instructors, supervisors did and how they helped us, the supervisors did and how they helped us as faculty. Yes.

Carla Ortega Santori [00:15:27]: My name is Carla Ortega Santori. I work at Rice University. I am the strategic initiatives manager at the Door Institute For New Leaders at Rice University, and my job is really about helping students elevate their leadership capacity and to also elevate the capacity of all campuses to do really great leader developments in education. I think everyone went through significant changes in 2020. Obviously, our director and leader was really great about embracing that level of uncertainty and creating a safe space for everyone to also attend to their needs, be they professional or personal. Another big, I think, time of uncertainty or significant change was when we changed directors, and I think both the outgoing and incoming directors were really great at defining our roles and clarifying expectations really clearly, so that was really helpful. Laying out a vision and also being okay with if we needed to change that vision or significantly alter it to accommodate our current needs was also really helpful.

Rachael Amaro [00:16:41]: I'm Rachael Amaro. I'm the admissions and academic advisor for the Department of Educational Leadership within the College of Education at Cal State Fullerton. I think a good example of that is the faculty who's the director of our EDD program. We had a really rough patch in our department, you know, between the faculty. The faculty were having issues with each other, which of course, the students pick up on, everybody picks up on. It makes the whole environment a little challenging, but my EDG director was always very level headed and very understanding and always open to saying, hey, if there's something going on, like, please let me know, like, don't, you know, don't keep things. It's important that I know what's happening so that we can all figure out what is going on and how everybody's feeling, at least in the office side, because the fact are gonna be themselves. They were having some issues with each other.

Rachael Amaro [00:17:29]: The staff, obviously, we were okay with each other, but obviously it all affects everything, so I really appreciated her always being so confident and always so caring and open, and always checking in and making sure we were doing okay when we had some rough times with our own leadership within our department, she was always the one person that we knew we could count on. And, you know, she's the one person that asks how you're doing, Jess, how your parents are doing. It's just those simple acts make a big difference.

Christine Wilson [00:17:59]: I'm Christine Wilson. I am in student affairs at UCLA. I have two roles. 1 is as the executive director for academic partnerships and the other is the program director for our director for our masters in student affairs program. I saw the leadership of our student affairs organization exhibit tremendous humility and vulnerability directly after the pandemic when there had been some things that were not seen that impacted fairly large number of staff, and they were unseen largely because of the pandemic. It was much harder to get a pulse on what was happening, and what was happening did impact a lot of people. And in order to heal that, our leadership really had to show tremendous humility and vulnerability. And the fact that they did that allowed the healing to begin to happen. And a year later, the organization was healthier, even maybe a little better for what they've learned.

Olivia Ruggieri [00:18:53]: Hi there. My name is Olivia Ruggieri. I'm the associate director of administration operations for Northeastern University Seattle campus. I grew up in Pennsylvania, went to college in Florida, and came out here in 2013, but I've been working for the university since since 2018. I would say that right now, there's a big shift towards, not centralization, but standardization of policies across our network of campuses. And so while for folks, at my level, like the ops leads on our campuses, we already do a lot of coordination between each other. We know each other well. But for the folks on our teams, like our operation specialists, our event specialists, they had not yet built their network with each other.

Olivia Ruggieri [00:19:34]: And so, coming out of our Vancouver campus, someone named Kayla organized a, mentoring, like, work group for all of those folks, which has been really amazing. So now, folks who are new to the org are mentored by folks who have been here a little bit longer. Those folks are mentored by people that whose roles they might be interested in the future, and I've found that this has helped some of that standardization that's coming across all of our campuses, and we're gonna be well equipped for the future.

Christle Foster [00:20:05]: Hi. My name is Christle Foster and I'm from Chesapeake College located on the Eastern Shore of Maryland in Y Mills. I'm gonna point to the pandemic since it's so recent and I will say that our leadership at Chesapeake was very responsive and one of the things that they definitely emphasized was care. Self care as well as caring for our students and I've seen that change even when we returned to the college. With the CARES funds that we have, a lot of it was allocated to students who are going through mental health challenges as well as financial challenges, food insecurity, housing insecurity, and there was a lot of response in which those funds were put to, trying to retain those students and also help those students over those challenges.

Nathalie Waite Brown [00:20:46]: My name is Nathalie Waite Brown. I am the assistant dean of students and director for graduate student life at Stevens Institute of Technology located in Hoboken, New Jersey. From a personal perspective, the institution that I worked at when I joined a few years following, we had a new president that came to the institution, and it was during a time where there was a lot of turmoil. And I believe that the leadership that remained really was committed to retaining staff and faculty in a way that was intentional and purposeful, not just for our students, but also for the climate of the employees and welcoming and supporting the new president. And that's something that's been impactful in my career. That was 11 years ago, and it it's still something that resonates with me.

Dae'lyn Do [00:21:28]: My name's Dae'lyn Do. I use sheher pronouns, and I am the associate director for the Women in Science and Engineering Residence Program at the University of Michigan, and I am coming into the position of the WISA CASE co chair. I mean, I have been lucky to have some really great supervisors in my career and definitely supervisors who focus on that work life balance and really making sure that they're taking care of their employees and not giving them time for themselves when they've had like a high busy time. Making sure that we're building in those days and those breaks for ourselves, whether it's in the day to day or whether it's in the busier seasons. I feel like I have been really lucky to rely on some great supervisors who just really prioritize that and know that we are workers outside of we're people outside of our jobs too.

Natalie DeRosa [00:22:18]: So my name is Natalie DeRosa and I'm from Lehigh Carbon Community College in Schnecksville, Pennsylvania. So my supervisor has been an amazing support for me personally when some of my programming had the plug bolt on it this year, and being that space where I can just grieve that that happened, that meant a lot to me. And also, we're still looking for ways to bring back the programming. I work at a community college, so sustaining programming is always a challenge for us. So being able to talk to my supervisor about it and have her be just right there as we're experiencing it has lended a lot of support to me professionally.

Dan Volchek [00:22:58]: Dan Volchek, assistant dean of student success at Harvard Griffin Grad School of Arts and Sciences. My relationship with expect that and hope that in a supervisor. So as we're going through changes and uncertainty, both professionally in the career and at the institution, they were working as a team and they were talking. And sometimes that has happened and sometimes that hasn't, but that's a very important way to get through when issues come up.

Vaughn Calhoun [00:23:31]: Vaughn Calhoun, Seton Hall University, hehim. I think, interestingly, you know, coming out of the pandemic, we were so used to being at home for 2 years and then coming back to campus with the thought of we're gonna be there a 100% of the time when literally our lives have readjusted based on on the pandemic. So one thing I advocated for was a work from home policy. We didn't have one across the institution. It was based on each department. So putting together a proposal, which was then accepted by our vice president and saying that, you know, this is what we can do. So that, I think, was really powerful because our staff knew and got the message that our executive administrators care.

Darlene Robinson [00:24:14]: My name is Darlene Robinson. I'm the RISE general and director for Seton Hall University. I can speak to that in a sense that being that I'm just moving in to this career, I spent over 15 years in the financial aid department, and I just moved over to student services. And with this move, the supervisor that I currently have now has been very strategic in listening to me as a person, asking questions of how and what I need, and how he can be of service as well as influence. Whatever it is that I need to do my job in the

Miguel Angel Hernandez [00:24:59]: Hello. My name is Miguel Angel Hernandez. I am the associate vice president and dean of students at San Francisco State University. I have been very fortunate as a individual to have had amazing mentors, supervisors, sponsors throughout my career. Faculty members that have really taught me, guided me, coached me at different aspects of my career. And so when I think about a specific time, the easy place for me is thinking about what we as a community, as a planet, have navigated these last 4 plus years of COVID through that particular global crisis. I think about the patience, the openness, the modeling that I saw from supervisors, from organizational leaders related to bringing people in, leaning in to the moment, to what individuals needed, and really giving us the capacity to rethink how we approach work, life, care, concern for each other and for the students that we serve. And so one of the things that I work very hard to do is not to romanticize that global crisis, but I am trying to make sure that I don't forget the lessons that were learned from the flexibility, the love, and the care that we demonstrated to each other to be able to navigate that time and that space. And so that would be something that I saw both from supervisors and from organizations. I hope that we continue to allow those experiences to be centered as we move forward in our work.

David Chao [00:26:29]: Hello. My name is David Chow. My pronouns are hehim. I serve as the director of IT for student affairs at the University of Pittsburgh, and I'm also the chair of the technology knowledge community. For sure during COVID, I think everyone became so much more attentive towards self care. And I'm not even just in higher education, I feel just like in the workplace in general, everyone just seemed to be working harder than their parents type mentality. And I think since then we've understood about the balance that, you know, we can't assist our students and serve them if we don't take care of ourselves as well. And some of the advice we give to them, we should probably take as well.

Melinda Stoops [00:27:01]: Hi. I am Melinda Stoops. I serve as the associate vice president for student health and wellness at Boston College. In terms of looking at times when there's been significant change or and uncertainty in everyone's life. And in higher education, there were just all of us going home for periods of times and uncertainty in what our roles were in specific moments when everyone's off campus. How are our roles different, and what can we do to contribute, and what are we needed to do to contribute? And I feel like that that was a time where there was a lot of uncertainty, and I think one thing I appreciated about that was my institution's stance of there's a lot of uncertainty, but we are really going to make a real point to care for our employees during this time. Now with that said, again, we were off campus, so caring can show up in different ways. But feeling like they were like, we are concerned about employees. We wanna make sure that you all are healthy, that you all know that your job is secure, and just that really that in and of itself went a long way. And it felt so fortunate because I know not everyone was in that same position, and I felt very privileged to be able to receive that support from my employer. I know that my colleagues on my campus were as well.

Derek Grubb [00:28:26]: Derek Grubb, Dean of Enrollment Management for Red Rocks Community College in Colorado. I've been fortunate to have a lot of supervisors and colleagues I think that I've learned from how to be effective, but one more recently was past president. Really taught me the value valuing people, celebrating even the small wins, and really how that promoted a environment of caring, great place to work mindset.

Matt Imboden [00:28:50]: My name is Matt Imboden. I use the he, him pronouns. I serve as the chief student services officer in the School of Business at Wake Forest University in North Carolina. And, for the past few years, I've also been chairing the administrators and graduate and professional student services knowledge community for NASPA. So I'm sure there'll be some point at which my mind doesn't completely shift to the COVID experience when somebody asked this kind of a question, but I am not at that point yet. So my mind as you were speaking, Chris, went immediately to COVID as a time that I think revealed leadership or lack thereof depending on the experience. But that's exactly one of those stressors I just talked about in terms of uncertainty that you were talking about because my goodness. I remember feeling particularly impacted when people walk the walk and just didn't talk the talk of either high level administrators who personally sacrificed in the face of budget cuts to touch their own compensation or to really demonstrate not just sort of with words, but showed me that they're in this too and that makes you want to give as an individual and I think role model that for other people on your campus. And so that stands out for me of throughout all that COVID uncertainty when all of us were pulling out the depths of our leadership ability and administrative capabilities just to see people who, went beyond the talk and really walked the walk of leadership.

Evette Castillo Clark [00:30:01]: Evette Castillo Clark, vice president for student life and dean of students at Lewis and Clark College, Portland, Oregon. I'll think of myself in this as a supervisor. When you can't give or when I can't give the gift of money, I know that in times of need or support to my team, I'm gonna give the gift of time. So when I look at them, if my team or my staff are exhausted, I always talk to them about tag in and tag out. If you need the time or you need the break, me as a supervisor, I have to be very understanding of that. If you can't always offer additional monies for stipend, you gotta give the gift of time. And you have to understand that people need to regroup, and people need people need time to refuel and regain their energy. So in times like this, campus climate issues, post pandemic breaks are needed, and I think I also have to model that as well.

Madeline Frisk [00:30:56]: I started this job at Portland State in 2021, was working remotely up until the fall term. I started in the spring term at our institution, so navigating that shift from remote to in person and also having colleagues that I'd basically just met in person was definitely a difficult time for me, but my boss was very supportive and everyone was very welcoming. I found a community both with our union on campus as well as with my co workers and boss, and that was a great experience being initiated into a really wonderful community at Portland State.

Gene Zdziarski [00:31:32]: This is Gene Jarski. I'm vice president for student affairs at DePaul University. I can think of a couple of situations. I will go back 25 years to Texas A&M University when I was a young staff member there, and we had an unfortunate tragedy of our traditional bonfire collapsing. And, 12 individuals were killed and 27 others were seriously injured. And the amount of attention and care that was taken by the institution beginning with the president who came in and basically said to all of us who were trying to respond and trying to work with the situation, I don't care how much it costs. I don't I want you to do the right thing. I want you to do whatever it takes to take care of people, and that was such a reassuring thing as you're trying to manage through such a challenging time, and so, for me, that was a significant moment.

Gene Zdziarski [00:32:36]: I also had one when I was at DePaul University, and we had a speaker come to campus that really, disrupted the campus community tremendously. I had actually recommended to the president at that time that being a private institution, we could make some decisions about whether or not this speaker really should come to campus. And he said at the moment, no. I think we need to have a process, a plan for that, but we're not in that place right now. I think we need to go ahead and do this. After it happened and there was a lot of backlash from the campus community, he stood by me the entire time and worked with me in meeting with all the different constituencies, stakeholders, and student groups to really listen, hear people out, and then help us begin to build a plan for how we would address that in the future, and that was pretty significant to me.

Lyza Liriano [00:33:22]: Hello. My name is Lyza Liriano. I currently serve as an area coordinator at DePaul University in housing and residence Life. Originally, I am from Brooklyn, New York. Yes. So prior to my role at DePaul, I worked at the University of South Florida, Tampa, and this was only about 2 years ago when there was a lot of political change happening in Florida, and impacted my identities as a queer woman of color. I didn't feel safe being in Florida, but my supervisors at the University of South Florida specifically provided me with hope knowing that I would be safe at my institution, and not only that, that I could still be there for my students. No matter what legislation was saying, we still wanted to build that community and make sure that our students really felt like their needs were being heard. And so I felt that as a professional, and we kind of instilled it to all of our student body as well. So although I did end up leaving, I left knowing that my students were in great hands.

Jackie Cetera [00:34:24]: Jackie Cetera. I use sheher pronouns, and I serve as the director of residential education at Bucknell University in Pennsylvania. For this, examples of when this has worked out really well has been when administrators and leaders within the institution really important for leaders to pour into their people and provide guidance even when it might be really hard to do so. Providing space to talk through situations and scenarios and to keep people informed is really, really important.

Lisa Landreman [00:35:09]: My name is Lisa Landreman. I'm the vice president for student affairs at Willamette University in Salem, Oregon. I think that COVID is the best example. I feel really proud as an organization, as an institution, how much we held space for our employees, that we gave regular frequent communication as a team of people who were managing the crisis, particularly early on. We did really regular communication. We stayed abreast of what was happening in the world. We thought well about our community. We allowed a lot of flexibility with work even though we were in person for our students.

Lisa Landreman [00:35:46]: We gave options both for students and employees to do hybrid work or remote work as needed. I think we also gave a lot of flex to parents who were or people who had family members they were caring for, and so I think we were clear about our expectations for, you know, maybe some of our goals were on hold because we were tending to what was most immediately important and what was reasonable to ask people to accomplish at a time when we were all caring so much in our personal and professional lives. I think that was a way that I was really proud of how we managed that.

Jackie Yun [00:36:22]: Hi. I'm Jackie Yun. I take the she series, and I serve as the executive director of the Harvard Griffin GSAS Student Center. Sure. I think I've been lucky at my institution that they have invested heavily in my professional development, and I have been able to go to them and say, I want to learn this thing. This is how I think this connects to what I do. And maybe in some cases, it doesn't always really connect, but they understand that providing me the support to keep learning and to try new things keeps me at the institution and keeps me doing good work for graduate students.

Leanna Fenneberg [00:36:55]: Hello. This is Leanna Fenneberg. I'm the incoming chief student affairs officer at Duquesne University. I think so many of our institutions are going through reductions in force. I've personally, been impacted by those, and I've had to lead those with staff. And those are some of the most critical times for the people who are departing and for the community members who remain. And so I think of those difficulties as we all have budget reductions and how we can provide a loving supportive environment for all of the employees, even those who are directly affected in helping them support in their next journey and making difficult decisions and communicating those, but doing that in a ethic of care and concern for the individual and providing that kind of supportive community during some of our most difficult times.

Jake Murphy [00:37:41]: Jake Murphy. I'm the director of prospective students services at OSU Institute of Technology, and I am over all recruitment and retention efforts at the university. Probably best example is my most recent position with a supervisor. I've just been in the role like about 2 years now. The university had been in a perpetual decline of enrollment for the last 10 years and it was morale was low. Everything was like absolutely terrible and my supervisor employed strategies to make sure that since we can't necessarily pay people the best in student affairs affairs sometimes, that she gave us the opportunity to use whatever time we needed to be felt supported and it really helped all of, like, bolster morale and just helped us avoid burnout which was great.

Larry Pakowski [00:38:29]: Larry Pakowski. I'm the vice president for student engagement, inclusion and success at Aims Community College in Greeley, Colorado. I think COVID is a good example for us all that we all shifted to a remote environment overnight, and then some schools came back sooner, some schools came back later. And I think it was really an exercise in making sure that we not only forgot our people, but also the mission of the college and ensuring that we were doing what we needed to do by students, but also our employees as well.

Jillaine Zenkelberger [00:38:56]: Hi. I'm doctor Jillaine Zenkelberger. I am the program coordinator over at Graduate Student Life at the University of Notre Dame. Yeah. So actually, a really good example is this year, we have a new dean of our grad school, Mike Hildreth at University of Notre Dame. And with any new head, new leadership, there's always, like, oh, what is this gonna mean for changes in our programs? But he's really taken the time to, like, sit down and listen to what our offices need and what our students need so that not only are we addressing students' concerns, but we're doing it in a way that's practical for us as employees. Because I think that sometimes we focus only on one side of initiatives and forget, like, well, somebody has to do it and has to have the capacity to do it. I think he's done a really good job and our team at the grad school has done a really good job of keeping those two things in mind.

Kristen Merchant [00:39:49]: Hi, everyone. I'm Kristen Merchant. I am from Rose Hulman Institute of Technology. I am the associate director of the union and student Activities Office there and also the director of our lead programs. So my boss's name is also Kristen, but her name is Kristen Lloyd. She always just supports us with whatever we need, asks how we're doing. If she can sense that we're kind of feeling burnt out or tired or exhausted, she always takes the time to check-in with us us and give us some extra time off if we need it, and she just always helps make sure that we feel confident in our roles, and that just makes me feel very, very supported and confident in my roles.

Joe Lizza [00:40:25]: My name isDr. Joe Lizza. I'm the director of the Chamberlain Student Center and Campus Activities at Rowan University in New Jersey. When I was a few years within my first full time job, I knew I wanted some type of change, and I had very supportive supervisors that provided me those opportunities knowing that the growth at the time in my current role and maybe the growth at the institution wasn't necessarily there, but they gave me some tools both through mentoring, but also through professional development opportunities to kinda seek out that next step. And they were just very upfront. I feel like sometimes people kinda string you along. They were very upfront to say, we love your work. You're doing a great job, but maybe your next step is not here. And they really provided that support to look elsewhere, which ultimately then allowed me for advancement outside of that original institution.

Joshua Allred [00:41:19]: My name is Joshua Allred. I work at Louisiana State University in the College of Agriculture as their manager of student services. Sure. So we had a a pretty significant restructuring in our office a while back, like, about a year ago when our assistant dean left. And I work in an academic affairs unit so they took that time to really kind of restructure and move some pieces around. And so there was an uncertainty in terms of, are our jobs secure? Are our jobs moving around? Are we gonna have some significant changes in, like, what are what's under the purview of our our jobs. And again, I think having strong leadership and having them assure us and and talk through us the entire time as things were being discussed and actually listening to our input and getting feedback from us about our experiences being kind of the boots on the ground people working with students, I thought was really helpful and thoughtful. I think sometimes frustration, especially in uncertainty and during times of change, comes from folks at the top who don't necessarily have the most recent experience working with students in, like, a really direct way, making these really big sweeping decisions and not always taking into consideration the opinions and the feedback from folks who are doing just that.

Joshua Allred [00:42:25]: Wow. So one of the things I continue to do is try to be innovative and think what's next? What more can I do to support students and support student success? I don't wanna come in and do the same programs over and over again. I want to do my best to collaborate, whether it's with my partners in academic affairs or my partners in student affairs. But whenever uncertainty comes, then that says, how do I make sure that students are successful? Because in uncertainty, they wanna make sure that what you're doing is supporting student success. So that's what I do. At Texas A&M, specifically, we just had a major change in who our president is, and we changed from the College of Education to the School of Education and Human Development. There were a lot of the professionals within the College of Education and Human Development who weren't happy with that change and thought that our peers around the country would look at us and say, School of Education and Human Development, we're a college, we do more, we're a research one institution, why is that happening with us? And, again, during that time of change and that time of uncertainty, our focus in the Burns Center was how do we make sure that we are supporting our students and making sure our students are successful? How do we make sure those persistence and retention and graduation rates continue to stay high and how can we raise them?

Judy Traveis [00:43:58]: Hi, everyone. I'm Judy Traveis. I'm the associate dean for the Graduate Student Success Center at the University of Florida. I would say recently, I'm from the University of Florida and the Florida landscape has been impacted greatly with big issues in the DE and I space. And I think throughout it all, leadership had town hall meetings and general counsel available to help shape and create our programs so that they can live in the new world.

Katie Caponera [00:44:31]: I'm Katie Caponera, director of student life at Harvard Divinity School. This past academic year has been one of the most challenging that I've experienced in my 15 years in higher ed, and I know it's been challenging on many campuses. It's felt particularly difficult at Harvard. We're very much in the national spotlight, but I think that what's helped me get through those challenging pieces and times have been the supportive colleagues and my supervisor who's been amazing at checking in and keeping everybody up to date on what's going on, talking through what we may be facing, and being very clear about what expectations are and what strategies are to approach what may be coming to us given the different types of uncertainty and and challenge that are present.

Kathy Dilks [00:45:19]: My name is Kathy Dilks, and I am the director of graduate student and post doctoral affairs at the Icahn School of Medicine, the Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences. Supervisors have always been very, very helpful. I think one of the best tips they've ever given me is perception is reality. So anytime that I come with questions or uncertainties or even in my professional outlook, I remember that one phrase over and over again, and I strive to put my best foot forward if I've always had the luxury of working with other people who are able to answer questions, able to guide me along the way.

Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:45:58]: Julie Payne Kirchmeier, vice president for student success for the u Indiana University. It's not really a system. It's a multi campus university, but we can say Indiana University System if that's easier for folk to kinda place the role. It keeps me steady as a leader and as a member of an organization. It keeps me steady. And be vulnerable, as we talked about. It's a harder one to answer, I think, because particularly the past 4 years have just been so upside down for all of us. And so finding examples of care and support in such an uncertain time, relating back to question 1, is really hard.

Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:46:30]: But I will name a moment, and it was pre the disruption that we all know of COVID, but it was so fundamental and so just roiling with uncertainty is when I was at Northwestern as the associate vice president and chief of staff, and our vice president passed away. Beloved, long, long battle with cancer, and I will say her name, Patricia Theus Urban, an icon in our field. And it was one of those moments you knew eventually was coming, but it doesn't make it any easier. And the pain and the shock and just the sadness that just infiltrated the division and the campus, and there was a lot of burden that was put on our division to plan her memorial and a whole host of things. So, you know, like, good student affairs professionals, we just jump in and get it done. But during that time, we really tried to provide spaces, conversations, moments, touch points, remembrances of her, and not just at the memorial. We would take moments throughout the coming year to pause, to remember, to talk about, to laugh, to, you know, all the things that you wanna do to move through a really painful time. And, you know, I can look back on it, and that was 5 almost 5 years ago now, which is kind of mind blowing.

Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:47:40]: And I'm really proud and honored to have been part of a community that did that for each other. I'm not gonna stand here and say it was me. I'm not gonna stand here and say it was a small group. It really was that full community of student affairs that came together and did that. I think one of the sad things for me is that you don't often see that happen outside of student affairs in higher education, and I think we've got to do better

Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:47:59]: as an

Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:47:59]: industry, as a field, in industry, as a field in remembering that we have to show up for each other in these really important ways, large and small.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:10]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:03]: Catch you next time.

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Welcome to NASPA's SA Voices From the Field Podcast where we delve into discussions that shape the future of higher education and student support. In today's post, we reflect on the poignant insights from Dr. Joisanne Rodgers, Director of Contemporary Student Services at George Mason University, who recently graced our podcast episode.

Bridging Gaps: From First-Gen Student to Student Advocacy

Dr. Rodgers' noteworthy journey from a security-seeking first-generation college student to a beacon for inclusive education mirrors the ambitions of many striving to find belonging within academia's halls. Her multifaceted career path exemplifies how diverse experiences can coalesce into a powerful drive for institutional change. Rodgers' role at George Mason University is not just about administration; it's about forging connections with and for students who have traditionally been on the periphery of college life support structures.

Language Evolution: A Step Toward Inclusion

The evolution from 'non-traditional' to 'post-traditional' student terminology that Dr. Rodgers discusses signifies an important shift in the higher education lexicon. By moving towards more inclusive language, institutions like George Mason University acknowledge the changing demographics of their student bodies and the unique challenges these students face, underscoring a commitment to support that encompasses not just academic, but life success.

A Supportive Community: More Than Just Space

Dr. Rodgers highlights that creating physical and conceptual spaces for students to flourish is paramount. George Mason University's community spaces, unique ambassador positions, and appreciation events underscore an approach that sees students not as secondary participants in their education but as central figures with rich, intricate narratives expanding beyond the classroom.

Post-Traditional Pioneering: A University's Role

The university isn't just leading the charge through in-house initiatives but is contributing to the broader dialogue on supporting post-traditional students, partnering with organizations such as NASPA. These partnerships foster a crucial exchange of best practices and innovative ideas, equipping institutions to better serve their diverse student populations.

Looking Forward

As Dr. Rodgers and many other advocates for contemporary students make clear, universities have an opportunity and responsibility to adapt, evolve, and provide equitable support. This not only benefits post-traditional students but enriches the entire educational community. Their successes aren't just personal triumphs; they are milestones in the progress towards a more inclusive, holistic approach to higher education.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:55]: She currently serves as director of contemporary student services at George Mason University in Virginia. Doctor Rogers leads a fantastic team of advocates and champions, serving Mason's contemporary student population. This team collaborates and partners throughout the Mason community to support contemporary student belonging, thriving and success. The team are proud recipients of the bronze level 2023, 2024, NASPA Excellence Award in commuter, off campus, military connected, non traditional, and related. Doctor Rogers also serves as an adjunct associate professor at University of Maryland Global Campus, where she earned outstanding adjunct faculty designation as an alumni volunteer at Algany College in Pennsylvania. Doctor Rogers earned a bachelor's in political science and dance studies from Alghany College, a master's in student affairs and higher education from Western Kentucky University, a specialist in leadership from American College of Education, and a doctorate in leadership with a focus on higher education from American College of Education. Her research interests include post traditional and contemporary students, mitigation and elimination of institutional barriers, and student success and retention. Welcome to essay voices, Joisanne.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:58]: Thank you. I'm glad to be here. And thank you so much for taking time out of your conference schedule to sit with us here in Seattle.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:02:04]: Absolutely. It's delightful rainy weather, So glad to hang out with you for a bit.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:09]: This is my hometown and, you know, people are always like, oh, it must rain a lot in Seattle. I'm like, oh, not really. And I really appreciate that Seattle's like showing out for you all with the rain today.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:02:20]: It's true.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:20]: We also may get to be dodging a protest for a different organization today. So, you know, all sorts of eventful things happening in Seattle.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:02:28]: Well, coming from DC, I'm I'm a pro.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:30]: Oh, the other Washington. Yeah. The other Washington. The other Washington.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:02:33]: We got it covered.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:33]: I do when I say I'm from Washington, people go DC and I'm like, no. State. The other other farther away one. But we're really looking forward to learning from you today about your transition story into higher education from an arts background. That's something that you and I share in common. My bachelor's degree is in music performance. And weird fun fact, I used to teach top classes to pay for college. So Nice.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:55]: So I'm really looking forward to hearing that from you. We got to know you a little bit at the top of the show through your bio, but we always love to start with asking our guests how you got to your current seat.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:03:03]: Sure. So first of all, I'm a 1st generation college student, and so I went to undergrad not far from where I grew up. A little bit of safety in that. I knew the institution, knew the campus. And so not knowing much of anything else, that was where I was going. I had friends who went there. So I went to Allegheny College as an undergraduate, majored in political science, and minored in dance studies.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:03:29]: I taught community ballroom classes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:32]: So I love this. I love this so much. Yeah.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:03:35]: And then I figured out while I was there. I went in, wanting to be a lawyer. That's what I was gonna do. And non spoiler spoiler alert, that's not what I'm doing as I'm on the NASPA podcast. Right? And so I found that those folks that were outside of the classroom were really the folks who were making big differences in what my access and what I could do and how I thought about things and and that kind of stuff and figured out that that was a job. Yeah. Who knew? And so I started looking for programs and positions both and got hired at Western Kentucky University. So I was a full time housing residence life staff member, part time graduate student there.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:04:18]: I was an assistant hall director and hall director through that, and then moved to the DC area and realized that many times there's a gap between the academic side of the house and the student affairs side of the house. Mhmm. And I wanted to collect secret decoder rings Oh. To help build those bridges. So I started looking in the DC area for positions that were maybe academic adviser positions or those kinds of things that leaned into the student affairs counseling things that I've been doing just kind of in a different way. And so I became an academic advisor that then kind of morphed into a success coach role at what was then University of Maryland University College is now University of Maryland Global Campus, and started working with post traditional students at a non traditional institution, which was very different than any experience at at the institutions I had been at, small liberal arts, regional with some global reach, into this global giant institution and learned a lot through my work there, but also connecting with colleagues and moved up and around there and decided I should probably go for that next degree because why not? Worked on my doctorate, did my research in institutional barriers for non, post traditional students, and all of that kind of came together for the position that I'm in now at George Mason University. So in 2019, George Mason University created the contemporary student services unit, which is a really innovative, first of its kind way to serve all of these different post traditional populations and the intersectionalities of all of those in a one stop shop kind of way, really. And so, like I said, it's a it's a first of its kind, and as of last Google, the only of its kind.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:06:05]: So when I saw the job description, it was one of those things where I took a moment and thought, okay. Either someone is totally stalking me online and created this specifically for me, or I may have just found the job I've always been looking for. Either way, like, I sent it to my friends. I'm like, I'm not misreading this. Right? Like They wrote this for me.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:06:25]: They wrote this for me. I didn't completely, like, lose total reading comprehension. Right? So, I had that moment of this is too good to be true. Right? And it wasn't, and that is fabulous. And so I applied and hired on and now work with this incredible team of folks who are dedicated to post traditional students, contemporary students off campus transfer, adult learners, student parents, veteran military connected folks, foster care alumni, system impacted folks. So it's a really great place and a really great space to be innovative and stay ahead and to use all of that background. I like to tell folks because we had a conversation about having that arts beginning that I use my dance theory and knowledge just as frequently student development. It just really depends because they both are part of the everyday process of the work that I do.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:26]: I'd like to dig into the language that you're using a little bit because I think that is an evolution and transition of how we've talked about students over 25 and students with children and etcetera, etcetera. So you're now using the term post traditional students and non traditional student is the terming that had been used for years. So tell us, about the inclusion of that new term and how it's reflective of current practice and why it's different.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:07:51]: Yeah. So nontraditional, anything non. Right? You're not the usual. That makes you feel great. Right? Like, no. Am I really supposed to be here? But I don't yeah. So there's some othering about that. And so post traditional is more inclusive, still descriptive, and is coming up in the research.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:08:12]: More is the the term used. And that definition of that is, yes, 25 and older, but also anyone who has adult, and I'm putting air quotes around that that you can't see, adult responsibilities. So that includes those student parents, married, widowed, divorced, military and veteran connected, although, admittedly, there's a whole another set of criteria and things going on for those folks when we talk about JSTs and all these other things. But so it's more inclusive of that in a kind of a broader umbrella, and the term, the language to it is better, in my humble opinion, for that population. But then elevating that even more, talking about contemporary students at Mason, and our definition of that is, yes, our post traditional, but also our transfer students are part of that. Our off campus students are part of that as well. So those folks who, again, don't fit that traditional mold, who come in with more experience than the traditional student might. And it's really about honoring and seeing the folks, the students that are sitting in front of us and not the picture that we have in our head of 18 straight out of high school straight in has no other responsibilities living on campus.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:23]: I really appreciate that new framing of contemporary student. I'm also wondering how you connect that term to the students that you're serving because it might be new for them as well.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:09:32]: It's absolutely new for them. It's also new for our faculty and staff as well. Mhmm. And so we've spent some time like I said, the contemporary student services or CSS was established before lockdown. And then lockdown happened, and there was a lot of turnover and a lot of changes, of course, as everybody's experienced. So in this post lockdown era, 3 of my 4 staff members, myself included, were new into CSS. And so that really gave us a chance to kind of reestablish ourselves and reach out and connect with the faculty and staff as well as the students across the institution to reintroduce, reconnect, and reestablish contemporary, what that is, what that looks like, and how the great thing is also that all of my staff members hold some contemporary identity. I was an adult learner.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:10:26]: 1 of my coordinators is a transfer student. Another one is student parent. So we all hold those identities. So when we say peer, we mean it though we may not be in classes right now, it honestly wasn't that long ago that we were in that very same spot. And so having those conversations and having that lived experience really makes the biggest difference when we're connecting with students, but also when we're representing our students and advocating for our students. So, I'd like to say our work is about ACEs, a c e s. We advocate, celebrate, educate, and serve.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:58]: Okay. And we have to make sure that we're separating that ACES from adverse childhood experiences.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:11:04]: Yes, for sure.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:05]: That's really helpful to kind of wrap our minds around this different conceptualization. You also said that George Mason is on the forefront of this new transition of how we're thinking about serving these very unique but growing populations at our university. Mhmm. How are you working with others in the field to kind of stabilize some of this and normalize it?

Joisanne Rodgers [00:11:25]: Yeah. So we're doing a lot internally and then regionally and then nationally. Right? So we've partnered for some of our subpopulations. We've partnered with folks like Generation Hope and participated in a Family U cohort. We, in this last year, earned the Family U seal, which is really exciting. Congratulations. Thank you. We're super excited about that to kind of amplify and celebrate our work with student parents and caregiver caregivers.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:11:54]: And but we're also working with our 1st generation center because the when you add 1st gen over over contemporary populations, that Venn diagram doesn't really get all that much bigger. It still stays real tight.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:05]: Mhmm.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:12:06]: So we partner with our friends in 1st gen center, which are part of the 1st gen efforts through NASPA. And so having NASPA support in that is beautiful and really helpful. And we also are working with everyone from, for example, our Marcom, our marketing communications folks at the institution and in our university life space to make sure that there's visual representation of all of our students too. And so we wanna make sure that we're seeing that our students are seeing themselves in all of the collateral that happens in the marketing that happens across the institution and across the region because there are buses driving all over DC with Mason on them, and we want them to see themselves in that in that place and space too. And now we're looking at I'm here at NASPA. We're, taking that in. We're also Generation Hope is hosting their very first HOPE conference this year in New Orleans. So I'm going straight from NASPA to that conference Mhmm.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:13:03]: To present, but also to take in what other folks are doing. And we're part of an Aspen network for Ascend. So we're really trying to connect in to work smarter, not harder, as I mentioned. So for us, we have, as I mentioned before, 4 full time professional staff members. We have a graduate student and student staff as well as an office manager. And sometimes I'm talking to folks and they say, oh my gosh. You only have 4 staff members to do that. And I talk to other folks, and I'm like, oh, my gosh.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:13:32]: You have 4 staff members. I'd love to have that. So we're in a great spot, kind of. And so looking at that too and making sure that as we're looking at emerging populations and looking at our work, that we're staying in a place where we can really help and advocate across the institution that we are not the only ones doing this work.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:13:55]: I think that's the important part of it too is as we're gathering ideas from NASPA sessions, as we're gathering ideas from Hope Conference sessions, some of my staff went to FYE this year. And gathering that information, it's about how do we partner, what are great ways that we can advocate, consult, do these things so that, ideally, all of our faculty and staff across Mason see this contemporary student work as their work too.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:14:25]: And a lot of times, it's just having the conversation about the language or having a little bit of conversation about calling them in to that work and making just little tweaks and changes because most of the time they're doing it. They just don't know that they're doing it. Or we're saying, that's really great. What if you could? And kind of leveling it up.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:45]: There's a book for 1st gen student success that NASPA, I believe, is a co publisher on, or maybe the publisher on. I I don't know exactly, but there's a list in it about, like, the 15 or 25 things that you can do to support first gen students. And the messaging I always come back to with that is if it's good for 1st gen students, it's good for all students because it's really about teaching people how to navigate the system of higher education, creating new to the system don't have, the social capital to understand, and and I really hear the echoes of serving those first gen students with your contemporary students. And it just it's so great to see that you're creating synergy with your 1st gen success center as well.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:15:28]: Absolutely. And you're 12,000 percent correct in that, like, that hidden curriculum, the paper ceilings that a lot of our adult learners and and folks are hitting, and that's what's bringing them back into our into higher ed. But also understanding this strange lexicon that they've either never encountered or it's been a really long time, or maybe they encountered it with their children when they were sending their kids to college, but they've never had to apply that to themselves. And so it works a little differently. And so, yeah, you're absolutely right. Like, those overlaps are spot on.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:01]: I wanna talk a little bit about that dance theory component because with your origins being in the arts and dance theory, a lot of people that have never studied the arts in a formal context probably are saying I didn't know that there was theory to apply to to arts in that way. And we have those theories in music education and dance education. It's about how we teach learning. It's about how we absorb and create and a number of other things. So I'm wondering if you can tell us a little bit about 1 or 2 of the dance theories that you rely on and how you're transitioning those from context of the ballroom to context of contemporary

Joisanne Rodgers [00:16:34]: students. Sure. So I have this kind of, like, running list of yes. There's, like, the formal theories and learning and and things like that, but I also kind of have this running list of things that always came from the director of the dance program, my undergrad, who doctor Jan Hyatt, love her, had these phrases that she always used that really stuck. And so a couple of those I think I have a list of, like, 10 or 15 in my notebook that have come with me all of these years later. And so the one that I use most frequently is you have to put the support in place before you need it. So whether you're executing a dance move, whether you're like, you don't just start playing for music, like, you just don't start playing. You ready yourself, instrument up, fingering, all of those things.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:17:20]: Right? And so even when you're taking a step forward, your body is you do it unconsciously, more likely than not, but your body is putting these supports in place so that when you step forward, you don't fall flat on your face. Mhmm. So it's the same thing. We're talking about emerging populations. There were changes in Pell Grant rules and regs that open possibilities for previously incarcerated folks. That means that's that's opening up this emerging population. We've been looking at that population for the last year and a half or so, doing some research, doing some interviews, and putting together toolkits so that we can put the support in place before we need it. Mhmm.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:17:57]: So, yes, some of those students already exist in our population, but we know that the possibility of more is coming. So we're putting that support in place before we need it. Just like if we were stepping forward, we don't wanna fall on our faces. Not that it's gonna work perfectly. Right? Practice and test and learns, that's how we come at it, but applying that. The other thing that I will say from her, mainly because this links directly into the podcast, is life is in the transitions. And so the importance of a move to the space in between the two moves is just as important as hitting your point or hitting the move or those kinds of things. And so that transition space and time is when things happen.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:18:37]: Like, that's where the good stuff happens. And so that is always part of what I remind myself of as things are happening, and I translate that into the work and kind of the business y thing of, like, testing test and learns. Right? It's always a process and it's an iterative process. Speaking of more theory, formal theory, is one of my favorite quotes from Margaret Dobler is, where the sum total are experiences Mhmm. And that's the only way we can show up, and that's the only way that we can react, which to me says meet the students where they are. Like, those things are very, if not exactly the same, very, very similar, which is a tenet of student affairs. Right? How many times do you hear folks say meet the students where they are?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:19]: Mhmm. That tenet has been one of the major constants through NASPA's existence, I think. You know, the organization itself is, I think, a 100 ish years old, and the the core of NASPA's philosophies have been fairly constant over time. I had the pleasure of interviewing some folks, it was maybe 3 years ago at this point, who were the administrators at Kent State University during the Kent State situation, situation. And they read me the NASPA manual from that year, and it was all still relevant. So it's really interesting to see how the way that we approach the work has changed a lot over time and we've become more justice focused, we've become more inclusive, we've become broader in who we serve, but we are still keeping that core of we're trying to help college students and young adults kind of realize their full selves in that out of classroom space, continue to show up as our best.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:20:08]: Yeah. Keeping that good stuff as the core. Absolutely.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:11]: I'm wondering if you could tell us how folks might be able to read more about these new evolutions in serving contemporary students. Because we're not seeing that research necessarily show up as boldly in some of the major journals, but there's so much work that is, I think, the future of what's happening in American higher education, specifically.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:20:28]: Yeah. I think when we're looking at research, we get really specific. So for me, when I was doing, for example, my dissertation research and doing my lit review, it was a lot of looking at the specific subpopulations. Student parent, parenting student, all the variations of that. And so looking at that broader space, you know, I think about all of the advice that I got as I was constructing my research questions and things like that. And without fail, the first I would like to say 2 to 3, but it was probably more like 6 to 8 times. It was like, no. You gotta get narrower.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:21:12]: It's like you're you're gonna you're never gonna get this done if you don't get specific. And so I think that's what's hard is that post traditional is so big and broad, contemporary is so big and broad, and so we talk a lot and there's a lot of research about those subpopulations, but looking at that in the broader sense is a little harder.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:31]: You just said what every doctoral student has heard, too much pain. Right? Like, please please narrow your focus. I'm working with a person right now who is trying to narrow their focus from studying a population that is millions of people and going, oh, I just wanna study the population. Okay. But what about that population? And it's just so important for doctoral students to remember this is the first time you'll do independent research, not the last time. Yes. That's a hard lesson to learn, I think.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:22:00]: Yeah. It absolutely I did a lit review on contemporary students, what would I be doing, and how would I look at these subpopulations, and how would I bring this together? And then thinking about those big, over arching Mhmm. Needs that are identified in that in that literature. So coordination of service being one of those, access and not necessarily access to education, which might be where your brain goes immediately when I say access, but it's really access to information. Mhmm. It's that social capital piece. Exactly. And so having those and having a not just a group of peers, but a group of peers that reflect their identities Mhmm.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:22:46]: And whatever is most salient in the moment. So we know that for adult learners in particular, and this is true across all contemporary populations, but if they have a peer group that is just traditional students, it's not great. It can be detrimental. Mhmm. So helping them find their community and find their village, I've been at Mason I don't know. It feels like maybe 12 minutes. Really, it was probably a couple months. And one of our student parents who is working with us with Generation Hope was our student parent fellow. Valeria said at a convening, said everybody says it takes a village.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:23:26]: But not everybody has one. Mhmm. And that just I was like, yeah. Exactly. That, like, just hit me, and it was this beautiful encapsulation

Joisanne Rodgers [00:23:38]: Of everything that we were talking about, of students coming in and not having what they need, but that we could help and we could connect them, and we could be a village. We could be part of that support network and system. And not being a student parent, but being an auntie of, like, in with my best friend who was a student parent. She was getting her MBA, and my goddaughter was really, really tiny. And I was doing my doctorate, and so we were trading off for doing homework and hanging out with the kiddo and all of those things. And so I get that village. I'm like, I am a villager. We can be villagers.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:24:15]: Let's do it. But that's not just true for our student parents and caregivers. It's true for many of our students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:22]: You just gave one great example of what that can look like in practice. I'm wondering if you have any other practice elements that you think is important for our listenerships. Yeah.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:24:29]: I think the big things for us that we've gotten really big positive feedback on are several things. 2 that I'll pull out is 1, we have community spaces that we plan out early so that we can let our students get those on their calendars and make notes so that they can make the time. We'll also do multimodal, so sometimes they'll be in person, sometimes they'll be online, so they can connect with each other. And it's really it's truly just a space of, like, we're providing the space, but our students our student workers, we've created, student ambassador positions that work differently than your traditional student worker position where you're asking for 15 or 20 hours a week. Those aren't working for all of our contemporary students, particularly for our adult learners, our student parents, and military veteran connected folks. Many of them are already living in time poverty, so asking for 15 to 20 hours a week, not gonna happen. Mhmm. So we created these ambassador positions that are right now, I think we have them set to, like, 50, 55 hours over the entirety of the semester.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:25:37]: Okay. And we have a stipend that's attached to that because their lived experience is important, and if we're doing things for them, we wanna do that with them. And so those students are supporting those spaces and coming up with ideas of activities or topics and connections. So that's one thing that has been really great, and it's really helped our students build their own villages and build their their success network across the Mason community too because we also invite our colleagues into that space and into our lounge that we have on campus. I think the other thing is that, like every other population, we have us the contemporary student appreciation week. But we do that in April, and at the end of the week, we have a graduation celebration for our contemporary students. So we have contemporary student courts that they can come and pick up and wear at commencement. But at the graduation celebration, if they haven't already grabbed those, we have those available for them.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:26:35]: But we encourage them to bring their village. We don't limit the number of folks that they can bring. We want them to bring their kids. We have kids' activities at the at the event. We want them to bring their parents. We want them to bring whoever is supporting them and has been a champion for them, including Mason faculty and staff. So So when they RSVP for that event, we ask them, who's been a champion for you? Who really made a difference? Is there a professor, a staff member, a community member that really just lifted you up or amplified or advocated for you or just was there and supportive and would listen? And when they identify the folks, we send them an invite. You know, like, come celebrate with us.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:27:16]: And so we have this really great mix of students and their families and faculty and staff, and our VP comes and talks, and our AVP, and it's just this really beautiful event. We give them a whole bunch of, like, different areas. They can take pictures, and it's just a really beautiful event that kind of setting yourself up for success when you do a graduation celebration. That part I won't lie about. I know. Like, we're already starting at a 7 out of 10. But those connections are also really great in that space of having gratitude at the end of this journey that was not easy. Yeah.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:27:50]: There isn't anybody in that room being like, this was a breeze. Glad to see I'm out. No. Everybody in that room is, this was a hard one situation. Mhmm. And I had to make some hard decisions. I had to make some really difficult priority management decisions, And I just have some really interesting conversations with my partner, with my kids about, it's homework time. You do your homework.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:28:15]: I'm doing my homework. This is what we've gotta do. But at the end, it wasn't easy, but it wasn't worth it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:21]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:27]: Thanks so much, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a number of professional development opportunities that are coming up in the future that some of you may have an interest in. The 2024 Women's Leadership Institute is coming up December 10th through December 13th, and the call for programs ends on May 9, 2024. The Women's Leadership Institute provides an experience that offers strategies for women to succeed in the higher education profession. Participants include women with from facilities and operations, administration, auxiliary services, student affairs, recreation, and libraries who share a passion for the profession and plan to lead with lasting impact. This is a joint venture between NASPA and ACUI and a great opportunity for anyone looking to hone their leadership skills for working in a rapidly changing environment while also developing a better understanding of the campus as a workplace and culture and being able to connect with others to share experiences about how campuses are adapting and adjusting to the new reality that surrounds us. Early registration goes through October 21st, but the big deadline right now, as I mentioned at the beginning, is the call for programs, which does end on May 9, 2024. Some of the leadership cycle topics that are encouraged include topics surrounding supervision and performance management, strategic planning, financial well-being, upskillreskill, the bridge to the future, delegating and giving away, picking up new skills and putting things down.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:00]: I highly encourage you to consider putting in a program proposal and if not, consider attending this amazing professional development opportunity. You can find out more on the NASPA website. The 2024 NASPA M. Ben Hogan Small Colleges and Universities Institute is coming up June 23rd through 26th in Portland, Oregon. This institute is hosted on a biannual basis by NASPA Small College and Universities Division. The Institute is a 4 day residential program, during which vice presidents for student affairs and the equivalent and other senior level leaders engage in discussion and reflection about critical issues in student affairs and examine effective and innovative programs. There's still time to register under the early registration deadline, which is April 30, 2024. This Institute offers amazing opportunities for individuals working at small colleges and universities to be able to build lasting friendships and connections that will help them to be able to lead their own units at their own institutions in new ways.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:04]: If you've never attended this professional development in the past, I highly encourage you to attend this year. You definitely don't want to miss this opportunity to be able to connect, be rejuvenated and to prepare yourself to lead your organization to the next level. The 2024 Leadership Educators Institute is happening December 9th through December 11th in Philadelphia. This is a partnership between NASPA, ACPA, College Student Educators International, and the National Clearing House for Leadership Programs. LEI provides a unique opportunity for all professional levels within our field to engage in critical dialogue to promote positive, sustainable change on your campus. The Leadership Institute creates a space for student affairs administrators, scholars, and practitioners to discuss and advance current leadership topics, such as modern leadership theories and models, including new research, applications and critical perspectives, innovative and inclusive curriculum, pedagogy, and strategies for leadership studies courses, assessment and evaluation of leadership programs, student development and learning outcomes, future directions in leadership education and development based on widely used studies and standards such as the multi institutional study of leadership, CAS, and ILA guiding questions, unique co curricular program models and high impact practices, including those with cohort and multi year engagement, distance and online learning, service learning, mentoring, and global experiences. Strategy and management of leadership program operations, including staff training, funding, and partnerships, as well as interdissectional and interdisciplinary approaches to leadership education. If you are someone that is leading leadership training and leadership development of students on your own campus or wish to be a part of that in the future, this professional development is a must go to.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:06]: Registration is now open. Pre early registration ends on June teenth with early registration ending on September 9th. Find out more on the NASPA website. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:14]: Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:42]: Chris, thank you so much for another great addition of NASPA World. We really appreciate you keeping us informed on what's going around in and around NASPA. And, Joisanne, we have reached our lightning round. Oh. I've got 7 questions for you. 90 seconds. Oh my. Alright.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:56]: I'm ready. Question 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would

Joisanne Rodgers [00:35:00]: your entrance music be? Ain't No Man, The Avett Brothers.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:03]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Joisanne Rodgers [00:35:06]: I wanted to be a teacher because student affairs professional, not on the kindergarten chart.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:12]: True story. Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Joisanne Rodgers [00:35:17]: I had a list. I talked about Jan, which is important. I think in the place and space that I'm in right now, it's my current supervisor, Sally Laurenson, and she has been amazing. Number 4, your essential student affairs read. Oh my gosh. Everything. Consume everything you can and run it through the lens of you and your life and your strengths and your institution. Number 5.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:35:45]: The best TV show you binged during the pandemic. I feel like I should say The Chair, because it just is absolutely directly related, but really the guilty pleasure version of that is Love is Blind.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:57]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:36:00]: Oh, that one's easy. Malcolm Gladwell revisionist history.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:04]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional?

Joisanne Rodgers [00:36:08]: Oh, my gosh. Everybody. I stand on the shoulders of giants is really what that is. So I have this really amazing family that despite not having a lens necessarily for what I do is still a 1000% in. And when I say things like, I'm sorry. I can't come home for Thanksgiving if you want me home at Christmas. They were not thrilled about it, but they made it work and were lovely the whole time, and I know that was difficult. And so I love them, but, also, I've had the privilege of working with some really great folks and having people like Ted Smith, who was my first RD, who told me this could be a job, and support from folks at Allegheny, as well as then moving into my first professional position at Western Kentucky University and having this group of folks who were in it and wanted everyone to succeed in just this really great village of folks that supported me in that and helped me learn how to be a professional in that place and space.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:37:10]: And my first supervisor, Nick Wired, and Brian Powell, and Ben Ellis just absolutely giving me space and grace to fail fast and forward, and supporting me in that, and having a leadership team, particularly in in HRL, but also in my internships and things like that. So my Western Kentucky family, my Hilltopper family being great support in that as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:38]: Joisanne, I know I learned a lot from you today, and I'm sure there are others who have. If they'd like to reach out to you, how can they find you?

Joisanne Rodgers [00:37:44]: Absolutely. You can find me on LinkedIn. Look at the ad for my name. It's spelled a little differently than you might think, but I'm pretty easy to find. So connect with me on LinkedIn, send me a note, add a note to that that you heard me here and ask some questions. I'm always happy to answer those or jump on a Zoom with someone and chat about what's going on.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:03]: Thank you so much, Joisanne, for sharing your voice with us today.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:38:06]: Absolutely. Thank you for having

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:10]: me. This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:44]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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Embracing the Unknown

The field of student affairs is constantly evolving, and professionals in this domain must be equipped with strategies to navigate uncertainty effectively. Success in this arena comes from a blend of versatility, patience, and transparency.

Versatility and Adaptation

Aquaneta Pinkert from Alabama State University highlights the importance of being well-versed in various areas, allowing for a smooth pivot when needed. Embracing a versatile approach prevents stagnation and ensures relevance in meeting student needs. This pivot-and-adapt strategy is crucial in staying dynamic within the field.

Patience and Trust

Taylor Cain of the University of Georgia emphasizes practicing patience amidst uncertainty. By trusting the process and focusing on controllable elements, student affairs professionals can maintain composure and lead with confidence, even when future outcomes are unclear.

Transparency in Leadership

Dr. Adrienne White from George Mason University shares her experience during COVID, when uncertainty reached a peak. By committing to monthly one-on-ones with her team and maintaining transparency, she fostered a supportive environment that not only alleviated concerns but also reinforced trust and collective problem-solving.

Moving Forward with Resilience

As student affairs professionals, embracing uncertainty isn't just about survival—it's about thriving and finding opportunities for growth. The strategies shared by these professionals are only a few of about 50 that provided a glimpse into the diversity of approaches used across the field to overcome challenges and foster an environment that champions both student and professional development.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:53]: And the question we asked you was, what strategies have you employed to embrace uncertainty during your career, and how have they positively impacted your professional journey? Please enjoy. And if you were featured, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us.

Acquanetta Pinkard [00:01:08]: I'm Acquanetta Pinkard. I am from Montgomery, Alabama. I work for Alabama State University, and I am a trio professional for 23 years. Wow. That's a loaded quest 1 is pivoting. Pivoting, making sure that I am, well versed in a lot of different areas. So I am equipped to pivot and not get stuck in any particular area. So making sure that I'm just able to move with the times is so and that's been very impactful and not allowing me to get in a position where I'm I'm stuck doing the same thing over and over again, so that I can be impactful to my students still and revel it.

Taylor Cain [00:01:45]: I'm Taylor Cain. I work at the University of Georgia and serve as the director of engagement, leadership, and service there. I think with uncertainty, I try to exude patience, which for those who know me would probably be surprised by that. I wish I was more patient. But with uncertainty, I try to stay calm, rely on what I know to be true, and then try to be patient and trust the process, as cliche as that is, to see how things work out. Certainly, try and figure out how I can control things within my sphere of influence. But understanding I'm a part of a larger organization and to move something like that forward or trying to figure out what's gonna come next, no one can predict the future. So do the best with what you have, but just try and stay patient.

Adrienne White [00:02:25]: I'm Dr. Adrienne White. I'm the director of student success coaching at George Mason University, and I use sheher pronouns. I actually think COVID was the most uncertain I think we've all ever been about our careers and the future and where we were all going with our lives. And something that I use with my team, that's when I started doing monthly 1 on 1 with every single person on my team. Because it gave them an opportunity to talk to me 1 on 1, talk to me about their concerns that they're having, and then gives me an opportunity to be able to alleviate some of those concerns or collectively come up with solutions to some of their concerns. And I think being as transparent as possible with the information that I've been given has really positively impacted my professional journey because I think it's forced me to be a more transparent leader, and it's also really made me think about how are the to the world events of today affecting my team and how we're supporting our students, which is our primary job. So it's really helped me rethink how I'm supporting my team through uncertain times.

Susan Hua [00:03:31]: Hi. My name is Susan Hua. I use she/her pronouns, and I'm the director of diversity, equity, inclusion at the Community College of Aurora, which is an MSI HSI just outside of Denver, Colorado. The strategies that I've used to employ that I've employed to embrace uncertainty during my career is really making sure that I have a community of folks around me who are able to help me unpack and debrief what I'm going through. I found that having a network of friends and colleagues who have been really close in my journey has been really helpful in terms of understanding the challenges I'm going through and also offering strategies and offering support in times of uncertainty.

Aileen Hentz [00:04:07]: My name is Aileen Hentz. I'm at the University of Maryland as the program director of academic and student services. I have embraced it fully. Many times, even now, I'm I'm 20 years into my career, I have stuck my foot in my mouth. So one thing that I have learned to do is try my hardest to think before speaking and to go with the flow and to be a little bit more thoughtful, and I think that might be some of the strategies.

Stephen Rice [00:04:41]: Steven Rice, director of the Office of Community Expectations at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles, California. Some strategies that I use to embrace uncertainty, 1, to recognize uncertainty does happen all the time. And so you can't really prepare for it, but you can also be ready for it. And so I do that is looking at the positivity of it, making sure that I create networks with different resources on campus, so when those uncertainties come, figure out strategic stakeholders that can utilize to create a plan to really understand how to approach this uncertainty. But also going back and looking at how we learn and grow as individuals and as professionals, and how we are able to impact our university community positively by utilizing these different uncertainties and making the learning outcomes from it.

Amy Adam [00:05:22]: Hi. This is Amy Adam, and I am from the University of Missouri in Columbia. I have been a student services support manager for 20 years, serving graduate students. One of the big things about uncertainty in my career, I've seen a lot in the past 2 decades. We went through some budget cuts after a campus wide protest that affected our relationships with legislators. Those of us that served students on campus really held fast to our values and our goal to support students. So, really, we just did a lot of debriefing amongst staff as well as really making sure to reach out to our students to make sure that they knew that they were supported and can ask for anything, and we would either support them or get them to the right resource if they needed it.

Stephanie Cochrane [00:06:17]: Hi. I'm Stephanie Cochrane. I'm the director of student services at Northeastern University in Toronto. I'm here for NASPA for just the Sunday pre conference around graduate students. I think the main strategy is a growth mindset. Really in Toronto and especially Northeastern, we're growing at a really rapid pace and so we're keeping up with that. We also have a lot of students who are coming to the country for the first time, so international students. And having that growth mindset means that we can create innovative programming, try to try things for the first time, experiment a lot with our programming, see what works, what doesn't work, and continuously change and adjust as we go.

Amy Hecht [00:06:57]: Hi. My name is Amy Hecht. I'm the vice president for student affairs at Florida State University. I've been there 7 years now. The strategies I've employed to embrace uncertainty during my career has really been leaning on mentors using my network, really having conversations about what is happening, whether it's at my institution or across the country. I've also employed a leadership coach that's been really helpful in processing what's happening at work or what's happening in life, and that's really helped me navigate different moments throughout my career.

Shatera Davis [00:07:35]: Hi. My name is Shaterra Davis. I use she/her pronouns. I'm the director of student affairs at Northeastern in Seattle. Move with kindness and empathy has been one. I think it would be too simple to say treat people as how you want to be treated. I think it's more intentional than that, and so anytime I move careers, anytime that I support students, I always think about what would I have needed when I was a student, what did I get when I was a student, my why when I came into student affairs in higher education, and then giving myself grace and showing myself true kindness and empathy in those moments where it's tough is something that I just try to live by and move forward anytime, like, in my career and in my personal life.

Andy Wiegert [00:08:17]: I'm Andy Wiegert, director of graduate student affairs, arts and sciences, Washington University in Saint Louis. Yeah, it's a good question. I think actually coming from a different industry before I came to higher ed, I've been in higher ed now for about 11 or 12 years. I was really used to a more hierarchical structure that had very clear trajectories, and I've really had to lean in to just living in the moment and sort of being present at what I'm doing now and just trusting that as I build a network that my own development will just happen in kind.

Scott Peska [00:08:52]: Hi Scott Peska, Waubonsee Community College, Assistant Provost of Student Services. I think that the best part is trying to find ways to be resilient and one of the things that I learned early on was to always do things a little differently. So don't take the same route to work every day. Try to find new ways to just ensure that you're comfortable with change. And so we get into, like, a lot of ruts as human beings. And so we kinda get in the same patterns of behaviors. The more that we can kinda find ways to change it up so Tuesday, that's my secret. Tuesday is my day to do something different every week. It's a way to try to promote being flexible and that has helped me to process and be prepared for uncertainty when it comes up.

Dilna Cama [00:09:31]: Dilna Cama. I am a director within student life at the Ohio State University, and I am part of the off campus and commuter knowledge community. So in terms of strategies that I've employed to embrace uncertainty during my career, Definitely keeping eye on what the final end goal is. It can be very difficult if you use COVID as a perfect example. It can be easy to get lost in the day to day barriers and challenges, but really making sure to keep focused on that end goal and be laser focused on that has really been helpful in my professional journey.

Sabina Kapoor [00:10:08]: My name is Sabina Kapoor, and I'm currently a a full time doctoral student with Capella University. I spent over 20 years in higher education as a staff within student affairs, student success, and academic affairs. So as I've progressed in my career, I've focused more on staff so that they can better serve students. I wanna go in deep with that, so that's why I'm pursuing the doctorate in IO Psychology because I wanna look at the relationship between the organization and the employee. There was a I guess you could you know, how we have midlife crisis. I had a kind of midlife crisis in my career, and so it was like I hit a ceiling and just really couldn't go further. So I had been wanting to pursue my PhD, and I knew that that would help me go further. So that's what I did. And so I've been on that journey now for a few years. It's been rough, but I just keep thinking of the end goal. And also, in this time, while I'm not working full time, but I'm still staying connected in higher ed in different ways. So I'm a member of NASPA, and so a member as a student, so I'm paying out of pocket and it's a little cheaper than being a full time staff. I'm also a member of Coupa, which is basically HR in in university and colleges, and, membership is cheap to free, I think. And so it's pretty I I think as a doctoral student, I have a membership for free. And so the thing is that I'm trying to keep connections and stay involved in organizations so that I know what, you know, basically what national trends are, what are best practices, especially since the pandemic. That really changed a lot of how we view things.

Carlie Weaver [00:11:48]: Hello. I am Carlie Weaver with Rose Hulman Institute of Technology. I'm a programs coordinator for the student activities in Union office. To have a very flexible mindset and being open to change and being able to be flexible when things change at the last minute.

Roxanne Wright Watson [00:12:08]: Hi. My name is Roxanne Wright Watson. I'm from Lehigh Carbon Community College in Pennsylvania, and I'm happy to be here. So So I think most importantly for me, I am student centered. So in my career, I'm always wanting to do new things with my students in my in the classroom, faculty. So I wanna do new things in the classroom to help my students in more than just academically, but more so to help them in the world in their whole life in general. So I think that's an important thing, an important factor there for me.

Carla Ortega Santori [00:12:48]: My name is Carla Ortega Santori. I work at Rice University. I am the strategic initiatives manager at the Door Institute For New Leaders at Rice University, and my job is really about helping students elevate their leadership capacity and to also elevate the capacity of all campuses to do really great leader developments in education. So I would say that most of my jobs have been really ambiguous, like, they start off as something, then they turn into this other great thing. I guess I've always been more comfortable with ambiguity and uncertainty, so I guess knowing that it's not something permanent helps to sort of adapt and thinking of different avenues to accomplish one thing is also helpful when when you think about accomplishing a goal.

Rachael Amaro [00:13:42]: I'm Rachel Amaro. I'm the admissions and academic advisor for the Department of Educational Leadership within the College of Education at Cal State Fullerton. I think that one of the main things has been reminding myself that I am one person and knowing what is in my control and what is not in my control. I think that's really hard in the profession in general. I think we all mostly are helpers, centered and ready for what my students need. And so I think that I can be re centered and ready for what my students need. And so I think that it's really helped me have an understanding of what it is I want to give to what I do and what I wanna get from what I do. I think that, again, the big takeaway for most people these days is what do I value about my time that's mine? And I think that I try to sort of encourage new staff members that I work with in this because I think a lot of them come in, again, wanting to go go go, which is great, but I also have to remind them, like, hey, like, you know, you have vacation days for a reason if you need it. And I feel like that's just something that's been really helpful to me to feel a little more like I have some balance to myself, and then it lends it to the work that I do.

Christine Wilson [00:16:23]: I'm Christine Wilson. I am in student affairs at UCLA. I have two roles. 1 is as the executive director for academic partnerships and the other is the program director for our masters in student affairs program. There's been a tremendous amount of uncertainty because of the pandemic, but I think everyone has uncertainty in their career because you don't know what's next or how that's gonna happen. And my strategy has been to embrace uncertainty because if you don't, you'll be unhappy and to take opportunities that come up in order to grow and learn more about how the university works, not just student affairs, but how everything works together. And through taking on things I've been asked to do, I've sometimes been incredibly busy, but it has helped me be much more effective because I have worked in so many different areas of student affairs just temporarily leading a unit or being involved in a task force.

Olivia Ruggieri [00:17:21]: Hi there. My name is Olivia Ruggieri. I'm the associate director of administration operations for Northeastern University Seattle campus. I grew up in Pennsylvania, went to 2013, but I've been working for the university since 2018. I would say just tapping into the network of professionals around me, having other folks review my work, and if I'm nervous about something, making sure that I'm not the only person, like, putting that message out into the world. And a lot of that came into place in during COVID 19 where we to be really clear with our messaging. Of course, there's a lot of uncertainty, and we wanted to make sure that our students got the right information the first time. Because things were changing so rapidly, we couldn't risk, like, confusion in the day to

Christle Foster [00:18:11]: day. Hi. My name is Christle Foster, and I'm from Chesapeake College located on the Eastern Shore of Maryland in Wymeals. Working during the pandemic was definitely some uncertainty, especially when we had to switch from being face to face to online. And in my role as an executive director of Trio Programs, it was especially difficult to recruit students online because many of them became disengaged. So definitely, that helped me to learn how to be adaptive as well as how to be responsive to change because that was a lot of change very quickly. We got notice, like, a couple of days that we were shutting down and I had to switch gears and help my staff switch gears in that time of uncertainty.

Nathalie Waite Brown [00:18:49]: My name is Nathalie Waite Brown. I am the assistant dean of students and director for graduate student life at Stevens Institute of Technology located in Hoboken, New Jersey. I think what I've used that it's been the most successful is pause and then practice. Being able to take a a moment just to stop and think about what isn't working and what I want to work, and then putting those things into practice, and that may mean reconnecting with my mentor. It may mean taking a class. It may be connecting with students, but really just taking a moment to pause and reflect to be able to move forward and put what I need into practice.

Dae'lyn Do [00:19:27]: My name is Dae'lyn Do. I use sheher pronouns, and I am the associate director for the Women in Science and Engineering Residence program at the University of Michigan, and I am coming into the position of the WISA KC co chair. For me, personally, I feel like relying on my people to get me through kind of the when I have questions about things or come across challenges, I just reach out to my colleagues or my mentors and help process through things. I think all of us have to work together in this field to really rely on each other to try to get through those challenges together and utilize each other's experiences and knowledge and just keep sharing that with each other.

Natalie DeRosa [00:20:09]: So my name is Natalie DeRosa, and I'm from Lehigh Carbon Community College in Schnecksville, Pennsylvania. So I'll start by saying that I'm a young professional. I think the key is to keep calm, and I'm still learning, and that's why I'm here. That's why I'm at NASPA, is to learn how to do that and do it gracefully.

Dan Volchek [00:20:38]: Dan Volchek, assistant dean of student success at Harvard Griffin Grad School of Arts and Sciences. In embracing uncertainty, I've looked at what other schools do and read publications about that and that has helped me manage the uncertainty that I faced during my career of which have been a number of pieces. But the biggest thing I think the strategy I've used is networking with people, utilizing my connections in NASPA to help me get through the uncertainty that I faced in my career and my professional journey.

Vaughn Calhoun [00:21:12]: Vaughn Calhoun, Seton Hall University, hehim. Yeah. I think for me, really, it's just pausing and making sure that you can understand the the context of of what's happened to the best of your abilities and knowing that things can change, and they probably will change, but also knowing that you can only control the controllable. And for me, it's attitude and effort. And it's one thing I always share with my staff is we can control what we can control. Those things we can't control, we shouldn't spend too much time thinking about it and just do what we can.

Darlene Robinson [00:21:43]: My name is Darlene Robinson. I'm the RISE gen 1 director for Seton Hall University. Some of the strategies that I've employed to embrace uncertainty during my career is more so looking inward, sitting with certain questions, ideas, and things that I, as a person, would like to have in a career, and just figuring out how that how what I have and what I need can impact those around me and best service students or coworkers that I come in contact with, and asking questions of those people as well to know what it is that they need and how I can provide it.

Miguel Angel Hernandez [00:22:21]: Hello. My name is Miguel Angel Hernandez. I am the associate vice president and dean of students at San Francisco State University. I think one of the things that I do related to strategies is really ground myself and center myself in the idea and concept that a greater power is at work, that nothing whatever situation comes. I think the second piece that's important about that that brings me a lot of confidence is that I don't have to navigate uncertainty alone. Here at NASPA is a reminder that we are a part of an amazing professional association. Through relationship and thinking with partners and coming up with strategies or responses to the critical issues that are facing our profession today, I do believe that we are able to emerge better than we were yesterday. And so when I think about uncertainty, what brings me comfort is that I am only a text message, phone call, social media post away from an amazing network of thought partners, and that has guided me and continues to guide me. I think in terms of how this has positively impacted my professional journey is that it allows me not to feel like I have to know everything or be over prepared or have every aspect of a job description or an invitation under my belt because again, we are not in this alone. Together, we thrive.

David Chao [00:23:47]: Hello. My name is David Chow. My pronouns are hehim. I serve as the director of IT for student affairs at the University of Pittsburgh, and I'm also the chair of the technology knowledge community. I think I spent a lot of time trying to plan ahead and anticipate. I think planning, while you can't plan for everything, it can certainly help and to help minimize variability whenever possible. It's just helped to mitigate that. But it's not always easy. And, unfortunately, as we just came off the pandemic, there are times when we just don't have a plan and we have to go with it, but I think planning in general still builds up a habit that is helpful even in times of uncertainty.

Melinda Stoops [00:24:20]: Hi. I am Melinda Stoops. I serve as the associate vice president for student health and wellness at Boston College. In looking at my career in student affairs, which has been over 20 years at this point, there have certainly been many points of uncertainty. And even though I've employed different strategies at different points in times and in different situations, I really think the one constant point for me has really been connecting with others and opening up, even if just to one person, about something I'm dealing with where I feel uncertain. There's nothing better than having someone listen to you and support you, and I so much value my network both within student affairs and outside of student affairs. And I feel like regardless of the situation, that's always been something really helpful for me is to feel like someone's there supporting me even if they don't have the answers per se, but that I just have someone who is in my corner and cheering me on. And sometimes they provide great guidance as well.

Derek Grubb [00:25:20]: Derek Grubb, Dean of Enrollment Management for Red Rocks Community College in Colorado. Biggest strategy I really just employ is strength in the knowledge of others. I've always believed building a team that has unique strengths, can lean on each other, and so you're able to be more agile and reflecting and promoting those strengths in each person.

Matt Imboden [00:25:41]: My name is Matt Imboden. I use the hehim pronouns. I serve as the chief student services officer in the School of Business at Wake Forest University in North Carolina. And, for the past few years, I've also been chairing the administrators and graduate and professional student services knowledge community for NASPA. So I think I've found that during times of uncertainty, it's taken me a few knee scrapes along the way. But I think I've learned that at that time is kinda when your motivating values are kinda the clearest, and they sort of help to clarify things for you, renew your focus. And so during times of uncertainty or stress or strain, as I kinda come back to the things that one, got me engaged in the work I do in the 1st place. I mean, that, like, truly motivate you without kinda being distracted by all the tasks and initiatives and ideas that tend to pile up, but kind of focus on our students, what excites us about working for and with them, but then also increasingly to try to be a good leader for other staff and faculty colleagues to make a difference at our institutions.

Evette Castillo Clark [00:26:39]: Evette Castillo Clark, vice president for student life and dean of students at Lewis and Clark College, Portland, Oregon. I employ a strategy of being an iterative thinker. So sometimes what that means is working with your team, working with your staff to pilot things or think through things and outcomes or problems to a solution, throw it on the wall, see if it works, and it's okay if there's mistakes or if it's okay if it didn't work. You regroup, and you think through and toy through the uncertainty and the problem again. So I think one of the soft skills that it is really becoming the skills is really being flexible with your thinking, being understanding that sometimes that first go around, it's not gonna work, but you retool and you regroup and you go at it again, and you might actually have to convene different stakeholders to actually help you with the problem to address the uncertainty again.

Madeline Frisk [00:27:33]: Hello. My name is Madeline Frisk. I work at Portland State University. I'm the coordinator of student government relations and advisor to Greek life. So I work with our student government, all of the committees and groups within that, as well as 4 strong and mighty small Greek life groups as well. I would say being a retired navy brat, navigating uncertainty was kinda a part of the career, we'll say. Navigating, moving every 3 years, I got pretty used to adapting, being the new kid, and I think that served me well now in the student affairs profession with all the ups and downs we can navigate with our career.

Gene Zdziarski [00:28:08]: This is Gene Zdziarski. I'm vice president for student affairs at DePaul University. I think the biggest thing when there's times of uncertainty and questioning is you try to do your homework, you try to learn more about the situation, and I think what I found to be most helpful is utilizing my professional network, reaching out to my colleagues in the profession, getting their perspective, hearing what they've thought. This is clearly one of the places that, at least for me, NASPA has served as my professional home, and the people that I interact are really that support network that I use throughout my career to help guide me and make decisions not only about what's happening on my campus and how to better serve students, but also, how I might look at next steps or where my professional journey is going to go.

Lyza Liriano [00:28:54]: Hello. My name is Lyza Liriano. I currently serve as an area coordinator at DePaul University in Housing and Residence Life. Originally, I am from Brooklyn, New York. I think that as there has been a lot of uncertainty within higher ed, especially post pandemic, I remember being a grad student not knowing if the program would continue in terms of my grad assistantship in housing and being very nervous about, is this the career that I wanna go to, even though it was something that I really love. I think what I started doing then and what I continue to do now is really just tapping in on my network, and really just having those people that I can go to to provide me with hope. So a lot of my old directors, old supervisors, and assistant directors have been really just a sounding board for me, providing words of encouragement and really just also finding people outside of higher education that I can just lean on when I need someone to talk work with that don't necessarily know what I'm talking about when I'm talking about work.

Jackie Cetera [00:29:54]: Jackie Cetera. I use sheher pronouns, and I serve as the director of residential education at Bucknell University in Pennsylvania. I would say that mentoring has been really impactful for me. Having different mentors throughout my career to help me through whatever my day to day or just life throws my way has really helped me. For individuals to provide the time and the space to talk through situations has really had a positive impact on me and has gotten me heavily

Lisa Landreman [00:30:36]: My name is Lisa Landreman. I'm the vice president for student affairs at Willamette University in Salem, Oregon. So I would say how I've prepared myself and established for uncertainty, maintaining flexibility and humility, I think I would start with and making sure that I'm able to be calm, cool, collected, that I am taking care of my own well-being. It starts there. And so having good balance, having good support, having my network in place for when things get hard. So when I'm can be centered and prepared, I'm better able to handle the uncertainty and the anxiousness and the crisis that comes. I think it has helped me be a stronger leader when I can model calmness and that I am not rattled with the ebb and flow of whether it's the world or our campus or student issues. I think being well read and well versed in issues in the field, so professional conferences, professional connections, institutes, networks has really helped me stay grounded in new ideas, creative solutions, best practice, collaboration.

Lisa Landreman [00:31:42]: And so I feel like I have kept my toolkit and my skills honed. You know, that isn't just I get my master's degree and get my PhD and I'm done. That it is I am constantly looking for where do I need to learn more and who could I learn it from or where could I learn that. So I feel like even if I don't know something in the moment, I know who I could connect with, where to go, who might have it, what resource do I need to brush up on. I think both those personal qualities of being okay with me and then being well versed, but then also knowing that it's okay that we don't know in the instant how to respond, that to take a moment to find the answer, to listen to solutions. Also, I would say hiring a really strong team around me and then modeling for them to be that we are a learning organization, so so that we're gonna learn together, that we create opportunities in our weekly meetings or in our retreats and things, that we are I am modeling that kind of learning. We read articles together. We present to one another that we share learnings on a regular basis. And so that has served me to both cultivate stronger professionals in my organization, also motivation and enthusiasm about learning new things, and also just it has allowed us to be a team in these uncertain times. Right? That we can work together, that we might make some mistakes along the way, but we can quickly recover because we're a learning organization.

Jackie Yun [00:33:03]: Hi. I'm Jackie Yun. I take the she series, and I serve as the executive director of the Harvard Griffin GSAS Student Center. I think that sometimes with uncertainty comes opportunity, and so some of the pivots in my career have actually turned out to be excellent silver linings and opportunities to specialize or to pivot, go to a different type of institution, work with different type of student, and so I've tried to see those as opportunities to learn. I think creating a learning mindset and just seeing everything as an opportunity to expand what we know keeps it interesting too.

Leanna Fenneberg [00:33:37]: Hello. This is Leanna Feneberg. I'm the incoming chief student affairs officer at Duquesne University. I have had the experience of positions being eliminated and having to start a national job search and relocate with my family. And while those have been troubling times, I see them as wonderful opportunities to reflect on who I am and what I value and what I want in my next position and have always appreciated when one door closes, another one opens and seeing the opportunities that lie ahead.

Jake Murphy [00:34:10]: Jake Murphy, I'm the director of prospective students services at OSU Institute of Technology, and I am over all recruitment and retention efforts at the university. So probably the biggest thing that I have put in place has been growth mindset. That's been a big one to be able to make sure that I am doing the best that I can and make sure that my team is in top form but also making sure that they look towards their professional goals because it is for recruitment, it's a stepping stone for a lot of people.

Larry Pakowski [00:34:39]: Larry Pakolski. I'm the vice president for student engagement, inclusion, and success at Aims Community College in Greeley, Colorado. I think the biggest thing is looking at kind of what students need and and their voice in the equation, and then letting that be the north star, like students first always. And then we get into the budget and what's possible and how soon can we do that by really kind of keeping that north star of students first.

Jillaine Zenkelberger [00:35:02]: Hi. I'm Dr. Jillaine Zenkelberger. I am the program coordinator over at Graduate Student Life at the University of Notre Dame. My professional career has been, even though somewhat short still has been kinda all over the place. I started as a social worker in foster care and now I'm here in grad services and I think uncertainty is just for me I utilize my uncertainty in my career path. I try to frame it as a benefit because I have a really diverse background with social work in my background, psychology, and really utilizing these skills to serve the community that I'm in now which is grad students. Also, my own journey as a grad student has really affected the way I work and how I interact with my students.

Kristen Merchant [00:35:48]: Hi, everyone. I'm Kristen Merchant. I am from Rose Hulman Institute of Technology. I am the associate director of the Union and Student Activities Office there and also the director of our lead programs. Some strategies that I have employed to embrace uncertainty is I always like to come to everything with a plan. I always say plan for anything that could possibly happen, but then also being flexible enough to pivot for my Friends fans and be able to kind of adjust to the various situations.

Joe Lizza [00:36:18]: My name is Dr. Joe Lizza. I'm the director of the Chamberlain Student Center and Campus Activities at Rowan University in New Jersey. I think early on, I tried to kinda shape some of the work that I do in really in my interests. So I really find stuff that I have true interest and then try to kinda shape that position or shape that professional development opportunity to kinda really be 100% fully engaged. And I've also always been open to opportunity even when it maybe there was uncertainty. So in the idea of not knowing what possibly I might do or my next step, I always kind of rose to the idea that, hey, let me try this new opportunity out. What's the worst that could happen? And it's ultimately kinda worked out for me.

Joshua Allred [00:37:03]: My name is Joshua Allred. I work at Louisiana State University in the College of Agriculture as their manager of student services. I think when I think about uncertainty, I try to find in any job that I apply for or when I choose to stay where I'm at. Most recently, it's all been about the people that I work with. And so if I have strong leadership and I feel really comfortable with that leadership, that uncertainty feels a little bit more easy to navigate because I feel a lot of strength in that leadership.

Kelley O'Neal [00:37:30]: Hello. Kelley O'Neal. I am at Texas A&M University, and I am the executive director of the Marylin Kent Burns Student Success Center. So one of the things I continue to do is try to be innovative and think what's next? What more can I do to support students and support student success? I don't wanna come in and do the same programs over and over again. I want to do my best to collaborate, whether it's with my partners in academic affairs or my partners in student affairs. But whenever uncertainty comes, then that says, how do I make sure that students are successful? Because in uncertainty, they wanna make sure that what you're doing is supporting student success. So that's what I do.

Kelley O'Neal [00:38:19]: I would say recently, the strategies that I've employed is really falling to networking and mentorship. In early career, I don't think I valued those two pieces as much as I do in my later stages of my career, and finding mentors that can help me shape my career trajectory for the last part of my career, and taking advantage of things like the Institute For Aspiring VP's here at NASPA, as well as other maybe smaller regional conferences and conferences within the graduate school community to help create that next plan for my career, but definitely mentoring and networking.

Katie Caponera [00:39:03]: I'm Katie Caponera, director of student life at Harvard Divinity School. I think the biggest approach to approaching uncertainty has just been to remain open to new ideas and new possibilities and never get too attached or set into what's traditional or what's always this is how we've always done it. That can be a challenge at a place that is as old and has as much history as Harvard and one of its affiliates, But being one of the smaller schools at Harvard, we've we have the ability to try some new approaches and some new directions with a little bit more fluidity given that we're kind of in the corner and small, but just not not being precious about how things have been done in the past, but really engaging, you know, what ideas the students are bringing to us because they're the best indicators of what they need on campus.

Kathy Dilks [00:39:58]: My name is Kathy Dilks, and I am the director of graduate student and post doctoral affairs at the Icahn School of Medicine, the Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences. I think the strategy that I always employ is staying connected with my colleagues and being open and honest with my peers. I rely on the people around me to help me navigate certain waters and certain uncertainties, and I rely on other people to help me gain valuable insight.

Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:40:30]: Julie Payne Kirchmeier, vice president for student success for the University of Indiana University. It's not really a system. It's a multi campus university, but we can say Indiana University System if that's easier for folks to kind of place the role. When I think about strategies employed to embrace uncertainty, you know, this may sound a little bit trite, maybe not. I just constantly important because, you know, there are elements of ethics and integrity that are woven into the how, but there are multiple ways to get there. And so when it feels uncertain or it feels strange, if I can go back to what it is at my core or as an organization, the mission or the purpose, I think it really helps to ground you and then you can move forward through that uncertainty.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:17]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:58]: This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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Breaking Ground as a First-Generation Trailblazer

In this episode of SA Voices From The Field Dr. Jill Creighton had the chance to speak with Alejandra Campoverdi, a formidable force advocating for women's health and an inspiration for many first-generation college students. Her memoir, 'First Gen: A Memoir,' beautifully encapsulates the emotional complexities that accompany the breaking of generational barriers, a theme that resonates deeply with many of our podcast's listeners.

Alejandra's narrative is both personal and universal, detailing her own struggle with panic attacks and other challenges as she navigated the social ladders of legacy-based institutions. Her experience in the White House, and the pivotal role mentors played in her journey, offers a powerful testament to the lasting impact of educators and advocates across different walks of life.

Legacy and the Emotional Rhyme of Generations

Alejandra poetically introduces the concept of 'generational rhyming,' drawing lines between the past and present experiences. By reflecting on the courage of women in her family—those who confidently stepped away from chaotic relationships while carrying the burden of pregnancy—Alejandra emphasizes the inheritance of resilience and the personal choice to either continue or modify the legacy we carry forward.

The Cultural Tapestry of Health and Sacrifice

This episode also delves into Alejandra's advocacy for women's health, illustrating the interweaving of cultural expectations and individual wellness. Her frank discussion on BRCA mutation and confronting a familial pattern of breast cancer underscores the critical necessity of breaking cycles, not only socially and economically but also health-wise.

Systemic Issues and the Imposter Experience

Alejandra's views on 'imposter syndrome' are particularly enlightening, challenging the notion that it stems solely from personal insecurity rather than also being rooted in systemic disparities. This perspective invites a broader conversation on the structural changes needed to support and validate the experiences of those breaking new ground.

Connecting with Alejandra Campoverdi

Listeners can reach out to Alejandra Campoverdi via her DMs on Instagram, LinkedIn, or her website. Her gracious acknowledgment of her mentors, including her former White House boss, and her thanks to the NASPA family and Dina from the First Gen Center, that manifests an ecosystem of support that many 'firsts' heavily rely on.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:48]: Alejandra's memoir, First Gen: A Memoir, examines the often unacknowledged emotional tolls of being a trailblazer. A national bestseller, 1st Gen is the winner of the California Independent Booksellers Alliance Golden Poppy Martin Cruz Smith Award and long listed for the outstanding works of literature award for the 1st year experience. 1st Gen is also the 2024 Opportunity Matters book club selection for the Council For Opportunity in Education, a national book club for 1st generation and low income students at colleges and universities across the country. Previously, Alejandra served in the Obama White House as the 1st White House deputy director of Hispanic Media. She produced and appeared in the groundbreaking PBS documentary, Inheritance, and founded the Latinos and BRCA Awareness Initiative in partnership with Penn Medicine's Master Center for BRCA. Alejandra holds a master in public policy from Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government and graduated cum laude from USC. She currently serves on the boards of Harvard's Shorenstein Center on Media, Politics and Public Policy, and the California Community Foundation. I hope you enjoy our conversation.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:50]: We were able to have this one live in person, so you may notice some slight audio differences in quality. Please enjoy and we're also going to be bringing you couple more bonus episodes throughout the next couple of weeks. Alejandra, welcome to SA Voices.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:02:03]: Thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:05]: I am really excited to get to know you a little bit and we really appreciate you taking time out of your schedule to talk to SA Voices here in Seattle.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:02:12]: I know. It's fun to be in Seattle. Right?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:13]: Is this your first time?

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:02:14]: No. I was actually here a few weeks ago for another conference, but I had so much fun eating my way through the city.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:20]: Oh, what was your favorite thing?

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:02:22]: That was a lot. The crumpets over at the Pike Place Market, incredible.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:27]: Crumpets. Okay. That's a new one. Most of my friends say Top Pot Donuts is their their jam or, I haven't been to the crumpet spot.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:35]: This is my hometown so it's always fun for me to see people discover it through fresh eyes.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:02:39]: Nice. Well, you have to give us your tips then.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:42]: Really, it's just don't eat downtown. I think it's my biggest tip. Most of my friends and family enjoy restaurants kind of more out in the community. But we are glad to have you here as our closing keynote speaker for NASPA 2024 here in Seattle. On our theme of transitions, you were just an excellent guest to have to talk about all the transitions you've gone through in your life. Your book right now is 1st Gen, a memoir, and that has been just a really beautiful read. I've been able to take a look at least the first couple of chapters and and really kind of get to know you through that lens. But I'm wondering if you can tell us a little bit about your journey as you've written about it.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:03:17]: Well, thank you for reading it, Amy. I feel really honored to be invited to speak at NASPA. As I say in the book, the reason why I felt compelled to write it really was because, you know, as someone who was a Pell Grant recipient myself and grew up in a lot of pipeline programs and nonprofits, when I would go and speak to young people, especially students even before this book was even an idea in my mind, I noticed that there seemed to be a lot kind of hanging in the air. Some mixed emotions and almost like looks on folks' faces that I recognize on my own face at these kind of transitional achievement moments that should kind of be 1 dimensional but kind of weren't. And as I noticed that, I started kind of changing the way that I would speak and the kinds of stories I would share. And the more vulnerable I was about how it was harder than many times we're led on to believe in inspirational speeches, really helped crystallize for me how much of not only my own experience but a lot of our experiences have some shame around them that there are conflicting emotions that we don't always share even though they're so completely widespread. And a lot of it namely about the emotional toll of social mobility and the American dream as it's been presented to us. And, you know, in the book, I really talk about how it's for first and only.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:04:45]: I call us first and only because it isn't just this gatekeeper definition of who has a right to kinda like that first gen experience. I understand that in in academia and in different institutions, you need to have a definition of who qualifies and doesn't qualify. But for this emotional experience in the book, it's about being as inclusive as possible because this experience of cycle breaking and that emotional toll transcends race and gender and and so many different experiences. So that was a lens that I discussed this with, and I really use my own story growing up, you know, as the daughter of a single mom who had immigrated from Mexico a few years before I was born to kind of be the companion of walking through a lot of these different dynamics.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:33]: You talk about generational rhyming in your book as part of that transition story. Can you talk to us about what you mean by that?

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:05:39]: Well, as a part of this book, I named something called the trailblazer tool. And I don't name that from a position of authority as someone who is a trauma specialist or an academic or a specialist in psychology or so on. The reason why I do that is because as I mentioned, you can't heal from that which you don't name. Mhmm. And so how do we create space for this holistic view that doesn't only include imposter syndrome but includes the way that being a cycle breaker first and only moves throughout our entire life even before we get to school and for many, many years after. You know, once by the time you're a 1st gen student, you've been 1st gen already many times over and you'll continue to be 1st gen. And so to that point, how is it that this even began pre birth? When you're thinking about generational inheritance and emotional inheritances, when you're looking for those answers, they say history doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes. Mhmm.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:06:35]: Well, what is the rhyme that is coming from our family? And they're not just negative. Many are positive. It's not just about generational trauma. It's about emotional inheritances and those I call them invisible inheritances. Many times they're intertwined. Many times, you know, you're looking at the fact in my instance, I have a great grandmother and a mother who both left very chaotic borderline abusive relationships while they were pregnant. Mhmm. Now that's not an inheritance that I would wanna continue.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:07:06]: Yet if you say it a little differently, I have 2 women in my family that left these relationships while they were pregnant. I mean, think of the strength and fortitude it takes to do something like that. So, I mean, I'm proud to be a a beneficiary of that inheritance. And then the third part is the inheritances that we choose to perpetuate as our own future ancestors right now. You know, every day, we have a choice to become a better ancestor. Mhmm. So those are the rhymes that not only we're coming into these lives with, but the rhymes that we're choosing to continue and be intentional about and maybe tweak a little bit. That intentionality is a lot of the end game because I don't have all the answers and this book doesn't pretend like it has all the answers.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:07:51]: But it's about validating and acknowledging a lot of what as first and only is we almost feel like we don't know have the privilege too many times.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:58]: I'm wondering if you can talk to us a bit about being a first generation student who entered collegiate spaces that are really legacy based institutions where maybe you're entering with classmates who have multiple generations of people who went to those institutions who know how they work, who understand the nuance and the subtleties of social culture and enter with a lot more social capital on how to engage in those worlds and how you found yourself evolving into those spaces and ultimately thriving in them.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:08:25]: Well, just how Invisible Inheritance is kind of where we start, you know, a couple steps forward is what I call chutes and social ladders. And I don't know if you remember the board game. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Chutes and Ladders. And the reason why I named it that was because that's what it kind of felt like to me. You know, you land on the right spot.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:08:44]: You do everything just right and you shoot into this different social class, into this different just like societal plane that feels so foreign, yet if you've messed up, God forbid don't do it just perfectly, you can backslide completely out of it. Right? Yeah. Without warning sometimes. Absolutely. And it feels really precarious. And to me, that made sense to me as a way to look at it. In the book, I talk about the familial chaos that I was in, this kind of pressure cooker, as well as in the romantic relationship that I highlight in the book. That's also something else that was, you know, leading to a lot of personal angst.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:09:25]: Mhmm. Yet the way that I was dealing with that was in a lot of ways of trying to kind of stabilize and have some semblance of control in my life by overachieving. Mhmm. You know, how that overachieving and sometimes that perfectionism can be as well as ambition, but can also be a coping mechanism for trauma. Right? And so I was making myself a really good college applicant at the same time as I was really struggling with a lot of issues around this kind of dynamics in my home and my relationships. So by the time I get to USC, it was one blurry summer apart from a very different kind of cultural experience where if anything, I was teased for, quote, acting white because I would get good grades. But then you get to college, and I remember by then, I was already struggling very much with panic attacks and panic disorder, and I had my mom be on campus with me. I grew up under 20 miles from USC's campus but had never visited.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:10:27]: You know, you don't visit colleges. Who does that? Like, what is that? So my mom is there with me pushing this running stroller around with my little sister, and I just didn't want her to be out of my sight because I felt so much pressure. Like, a lot of these students I know. I hear from them. I'm traveling around the country right now talking to them. So much pressure that not only did I have to do this to kind of this was my chance to, you know, break that cycle of poverty, but this was also my chance to help my mom, to help my family. You know, it was this kinda like double layer of stress. And my mom went to the parent orientation and I'm sitting there and feeling that, and all of a sudden, my ears start ringing.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:11:05]: Everything starts getting spinny, and I run out of Boulevard Auditorium in USC and pass out in the middle of campus. So when I came to, somebody had gone to get my mom, and we went to the health center, and then they gave me a prescription and, you know, sent me on my way. And I remember sitting on a bench with her and thinking, oh my god. Am I gonna be able to do this? I worked so hard to be able to get there, and it felt like everything was within grasp that I had dreamed of, that we had dreamed of. But I didn't know if I could physically do it because all of these experiences and these emotional experiences that we're talking about had started catching up with me. Mhmm. You know, and that's that's not something that's unique to me. Right? Because there's a saying I point to in the book, when you're skating over thin ice, your speed is your safety.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:11:52]: Mhmm. And many times that's what it feels like when you're cycle breaking and you're kind of trying to adjust to these new kinda stratosphere jumps, you don't have time to really process what's happening. You're just kind of surviving and morphing and adapting however you can. And there was a lot that was coming up for me at that time. I was fortunate that, you know, my mom was able to help me kind of navigate a little bit but in a lot of ways I ended up experiencing a whole another big jump that was difficult to recalibrate. At the time, my mom, not knowing any better, encouraged me to get involved with the Greek system.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:30]: Okay.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:12:30]: And we can imagine at that time, USC in the late nineties, early 2000, you know, that was like taking me to the most extreme example of kind of world jumping and recalibrating and understanding what that meant for my Latinidad and how it expressed itself on campus. How I was able to show up and fit into a system that had experiences that were beyond my comprehension and how it is that I was able to do that and manage all that while at the same time trying to keep up with grades. And it it was a lot. And I go into this a lot deeper in the book about what that felt like, but I definitely don't. And I'm not saying now nor do I say in the book that I figured it all out. Mhmm. The point was that I was white knuckling it. The point was that I was surviving in that space in those spaces as best I could, but not really understanding a lot of the dynamics that they weren't personal to me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:32]: Like many women of color who are leading in new spaces, you've had transitions in this academic space, you've had transitions with health, and you've had transitions in career. So I wanna talk a little bit about your transitions in health because you're well known as a women's health advocate. When you were going through your own health transitions, how did you balance that with everything else that was going on in the world?

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:13:53]: Well, I didn't know that I because I'm a BRCA mutation carrier, hereditary cancer in my family, but I didn't know that until I was in my thirties. So what I did know was that women in my family tended to all get breast cancer. And until my mom's generation, they would pass away from breast cancer. So it was especially when my mom was diagnosed and I was in my early twenties, that was a really pivotal time as far as just graduating from school and trying to figure out, I call it the lonely hustle, how to kind of go after my dreams without any safety net.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:28]: Mhmm.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:14:28]: When my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer, I realized I didn't really have the privilege to do that. I had a little sister that I assumed I was gonna be a single mom too. And so I went home to help take care of my mom during that time and, you know, slept on the air mattress in her living room. And as far as I was concerned, that was it. Your parents, a lot of times, you feel like they sacrifice so much for you to have these opportunities and that feels especially in the dynamics and the cultural dynamics in a lot of our communities that that's a collectivist mindset about what it means when you drop everything to be able to take care of the family unit. And so I didn't realize back then that that was something that I was also going to have to face. Mhmm. But breast cancer has been an ongoing drumbeat throughout my entire life.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:15:17]: You know, I don't go into my own journey with breast cancer in this book because this book ends before that happens. But, you know, when you're thinking about cycle breaking even with our own bodies, you know, how it is we disrupt these cycles in our families and the choice that I made to have preventative surgery at the time, not knowing that when it was after the fact of the surgery, we would discover in retrospect that actually I did have an active breast cancer already developing, which validated that choice. But all that to say is our health is another way that we're able to try to break some of these cycles. And I always say, you know, like one of the the biggest cycles that we can break and we don't always think about is to give ourselves the privilege of rest and balance and that kind of wellness on every different level because we can break cycles of poverty. We can be the first to go to college. We can be the first to have a job or buy a house or so on. But unless we do some of this inner work, one of the biggest cycles that can lead to illness in our body but for sure in our minds and our emotional health is not gonna get broken.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:32]: When you think about cycle break in your own life, what advice do you give to others on how they can also engage in that work?

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:16:36]: I think that the first step is to be conscious of it, to acknowledge it. And that's the energy that this book is written in for us to know ourselves and for us to know each other and for us to know that we're not alone in these experiences because a lot of it feels so isolating and a lot of it feels just really personal. And if I I've learned anything I mean, I've been to dozens of colleges now across the country. I've been really blessed to speak to so many educators as well. And it's the same experience of nodding everywhere that I go. Mhmm. Nodding in tears and acknowledgement. And sometimes people will raise their hands and I remember I was speaking in Miami, and this gentleman raised his hand.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:17:17]: He said, how do you deal with, like, the loneliness? And he started crying. And I looked out at the crowd, and I and I tell you, there were so many people crying. And I told them, I said, well, take a look around. Do you feel alone? Look at all these people that that are feeling the same thing you're feeling. And that's what the energy that this book is hopefully calling us to, which is to take a look around and acknowledge all the nodding heads.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:45]: I think one of the most powerful things you do in this book is give voice to a common experience that a lot of people are afraid to talk about or afraid to say out loud because we live in a capitalist society. We're fearful of being perceived as, you know, not always out in front of things sometimes. So I really appreciate that you're naming a lot of this, and it's clearly resonating with audiences around the country, and I'm sure will be very resonant for our NASPA members here, especially for our professionals who are 1st and onlys or are there 1st gen in their family to attain a university degree and then likely an advanced degree, and now we're all working in this field where a lot of people don't really understand our work. It's kind of an ongoing joke in student affairs that even our own parents don't understand what we do on a daily basis.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:18:26]: And I write about that in the book that that's a loneliness inducing experience as as well that I write about when you go home. And I mean, I would come home from the White House and I wouldn't get questions about my work, and that's at a neutral level. Then there's the hands of the students where they raise their hands and say, I'm dissuaded from doing these things. They're told, like, why are you doing this? Why don't you get a more job where you make more money? Why would you study abroad? That's a waste of your time. Almost kind of getting this negative messaging. But to your point, that's why I feel so honored to be speaking here at NASPA because on so many different levels, a, you guys are the ones on the ground. You guys are the ones on the ground with these students every day working so hard and doing so much to support the leaders of the future. And also because I see very clearly how many of the educators I'm speaking to are literally these students who also had the same experience.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:19:23]: You know, we get called to the work that we do, whether it's writing books or being an educator because of something usually very personal. We're called to something because of the empathy many times that we have for experiences. And like I said earlier, the book is written not just about that part of the student experience. There's many many chapters about what happens when you're on the other side of the sausage maker, which is all of us.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:49]: Mhmm.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:19:50]: And you're gonna spit out the other side and you're like, okay, woah, what happened? Because there is a point where you're the arc of the first gen experience kind of concludes. That doesn't mean that you don't have ambitions for the future and you don't have all these other things you wanna accomplish, but that initial kind of ascension into breaking out of certain cycles, same things that originally was driving me? Are they the same things or have they shifted? And if they've shifted, then how is it that I show up differently? You also name feelings of imposter syndrome in

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:31]: the book, especially when you're first invited into the White House spaces and during your process of getting top secret security clearance and all of those things. How did you work through those feelings of imposter syndrome even though you're sitting in some of the most powerful spaces in the world at that point in time and knowing that so many of our listeners are facing impostor syndrome in their own careers even though, you know, we're all qualified to be in the spaces we're in?

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:20:53]: Well, one of the things that I really make a point to highlight in the book is I actually really have a problem with the idea of impostor syndrome as it was presented to me. I'll make it personal, as I've seen it be presented also in general, is the idea that it really is about this crisis of confidence singularly and not about the second part of it, the other side of the coin, which is no matter how confident we are, how it is that the way that we show up or we're received in these spaces and in these kind of constructs that is reflected back to us sometimes that we don't belong in ways that are subtle and not so subtle at times.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:29]: I think imposter syndrome syndrome's a system issue personally. Right? It's 2 ways.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:21:34]: Exactly. I mean, it's 2 ways. We we still have to acknowledge our contributions and show up in that space and there's systemic issues at play too. And so that's the lens through which I talk about it at that time at the White House and not just at the White House, but that nuance, I think, is helpful because I know when I used to blame myself for feeling a lack of confidence, it's not fair on top of everything else. It's also we're pointing the arrow directly back at students to just feel more confident and not acknowledging the dynamics with which they're operating.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:14]: Is there anything else you want our NASPA membership to hear from you today? Just that

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:22:18]: I had several inflection points that I talk about in the book that really had to do with either an educator or a mentor, someone in a position of power saying something, doing something that completely changed my life. And I wasn't someone who had mentors that would follow my life for decades. You know, it was these angels that sometimes would step in and sometimes would derail, you know. Sometimes people help you in ways that are positive and negative to kinda get you back on track. Mhmm. But the point is that these people in my life and certain things they said and didn't encourage me to do changed everything. And so I like I said, my message is gratitude to this community for being the in the spaces between the bullet points because that's what I call it in the book. That's what the book is.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:23:08]: I wanted to write something that didn't just look at the bullet points on my resume or in my bio the same way that all of us have our schools and our achievements and our jobs, but that's not where the real story lies. It's really in the spaces between those bullet points and that's where you guys are. That's where the whole story goes one way or another. And so it's just expressing my gratitude for the work that you do and for the way that you're changing lives every day. Before we go to our break, I

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:37]: would be remiss if I didn't ask how cool is it to be on Air Force

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:23:40]: There's nothing cooler.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:43]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:49]: Thanks so much, Jill. Really excited to be back in the NASPA world. And today, I am really excited to be able to share some amazing news. If you missed it, an email was sent out after the annual conference that NASPA has selected a new president. We are thrilled to share with you that the outcome of the national search of the NASPA president has concluded. And after a thoughtful and deliberate process spanning the past 6 months, the NASPA board of directors have selected Dr. Amelia Parnell as the next President of NASPA. You may know Amelia the from her work as vice president for research and policy at NASPA, a position that she's held since 2015. In this role, she has selected the association's research policy and publications portfolio, providing critical thought and support to the membership. She oversees large scale projects, represents NASPA globally, is speaking engagements in the media, and leads analysis of applicable federal and state legislation and regulatory developments.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:53]: Over the past 8 years, Amelia has secured over $22,000,000 in philanthropic funding, represented NASPA through service to over 20 organizations, including the US Department of Education, and served as the chair of the governing board for the Higher Ed Equity Network and Chair of the Finance and Investment Committee for the EDUCAUSE Board of Directors. Additionally, she has led an 18 month examination of the future of student affairs, overseeing a large volunteer and staff task force and engaging in listening sessions with NASPA members. Prior to NASPA, Amelia served as Director of Research Initiatives at the Association For Institutional Research and Director of National Survey Research for the Association For Institutional Research. From 2005 to 2012, she served as education policy analyst for the Florida Legislature. Amelia has authored numerous scholarly articles and has been regularly quoted in national and trade publications. She is author of the recent book, You Are a Data Person, Strategies for Using Analytics on Campus, which has sold over 3,000 copies to date and is widely used by institutions across the country. She is also a faculty member for the Institute on ePortfolios of the American Association of Colleges and Universities. Amelia holds a BS and MBA in Business Administration from Florida A&M University and a PhD in Higher Education from Florida State University.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:21]: Beyond Amelia's credentials and organizational knowledge, the search committee and the board were most impressed by her vision for continuing to position NASPA as an indispensable organization serving the student affairs profession and higher education more broadly. Her collaborative leadership style combined with her extensive experience and genuine commitment to student success set her apart in a strong and diverse field of applicants for the position. Emilia will begin her tenure as president on July 1, 2024, at which time Kevin Kruger will become president emeritus. As we continue to move toward this next chapter in NASPA's story, we wanna thank the NASPA president search committee and especially the co chairs, Betty Simmons, retired vice president of student development enrollment management at County College of Morris and Pat Whiteley, senior vice president for student affairs and alumni engagement at the University of Miami. These volunteers gave so much of their time to ensure that the next leader of NASPA would be someone who can build on the successes of the last 12 years and position the organization to help its members face the challenges that we know lie ahead. In selecting Amelia, they have done exactly that. We would also like to extend our thanks to the team at Korn Kari for their counsel and support in this search. Our largest congratulations go out to doctor Amelia Parnell, past guest of the show, and we will be having her in the future to talk about that vision for NASPA.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:47]: Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways, because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:12]: Chris, thank you so much for this week's edition of NASPA World. We always appreciate you keeping us updated on what's going around in and around NASPA. And, Alejandra, we have our lightning round questions now. I've got 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:29:26]: Okay. Let's go.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:27]: Alright. Question number 1. Since you are a conference keynote speaker, if you got to choose your entrance music, what would it be?

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:29:33]: Well, I don't know if it's a known fact but First Gen has a playlist cause each chapter title is a song. So I'm gonna pick one of the songs off of the playlist which is Fast Car, Tracy Chapman version though.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:46]: Oh, she just performed recently.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:29:47]: Oh, so good.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:47]: Love her. So good. I'm gonna sidetrack us and say where can people find your playlist?

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:29:51]: It's on Spotify and in the back of the book, there's a link.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:54]: Alright. Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:29:58]: When I was 5 years old, I wanted to be Cinderella. I actually write about that in the book.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:05]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:30:08]: My most influential professional mentor was my boss at the White House for a lot of reasons and I I actually there's a whole scene in the book about the way she modeled to me what true leadership was like and really had the power to be able to either support me or not support me in a very pivotal moment at the beginning of the book. And she, to this day, is somebody who's still in my life and threw me a book party when the book came out, which meant a lot. So I would have to say her.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:38]: Number 4, your essential higher education read. I'd be remiss

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:30:41]: if I didn't say 1st gen. Come on.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:43]: Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:30:47]: I watched Breaking Bad again.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:48]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:30:51]: the last year. So because I actually, over the past year, have been so crazy promoting the book. I haven't listened to a lot of podcast. I'm gonna give a shout out to this one.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:00]: Thank you.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:31:02]: So SA Voices from the Field.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:04]: And finally, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional? I just like to

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:31:08]: thank the NASPA family for welcoming me and of course to Dina over at the First Gen Center. I've had such an incredible experience getting to know folks in this world and a lot of the folks in student affairs and 1st gen programs. And so shout out to everyone here and the work that they're doing and to you for having me. I appreciate it. Again, the

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:28]: book is First Gen, a memoir by Alejandra Campoverdi. You can pick it up in the NASPA bookstore or wherever you buy books. Now if folks would like to book you for a speaking tour on their campus or reach you otherwise, how can they find you? Well,

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:31:40]: I'm super in my DMs. So you could DM me on Instagram or send me a LinkedIn message or on my website. There's an email that you can also reach out to me there.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:50]: And what's your website?

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:31:51]: Alejandracampoverdi.com. Thank you

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:54]: so much, for sharing your voice with us today. Thank you. This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at sa voices at nasa dotorg or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:26]: We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

View Details

Advancing DEI Values

In an enlightening new episode of SA Voices From The Field Dr. Jill Creighton invites Shawntal Brown, an advocate for diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI), to share her insights on driving institutional support for these crucial values. Shawntal emphasizes how integrating DEI into the fabric of higher education is not just beneficial but essential for creating welcoming and inclusive environments.

The Research Journey

Shawntal's research journey reveals a strategic pivot from focusing on staff insights to exploring university presidents' role in championing DEI. This shift underscores the importance of leadership buy-in for effective DEI initiatives

Navigating Complex Social Landscapes

Proactive DEI work is emerging as a priority in contemporary academia. Dr. Jill and Shawntal discuss the challenges posed by today's charged social and political climates, emphasizing the need for steadfast commitment to DEI principles.

Legislative Impacts on DEI

Texas Senate Bill 17's severe restrictions on diversity trainings and resources present significant hurdles. Shawntal offers a poignant analysis of the bill's consequences, exploring the complex task of reconciling legislative compliance with DEI values.

Staying True to DEI Amidst Legal Challenges

Transitioning DEI efforts to align with new legislation while adhering to core values is a delicate balance. Shawntal reflects on her time in the school of engineering, bringing a personal touch to her professional dedication to supporting students.

Self-Care for DEI Professionals

Shawntal wisely advises her peers to prioritize self-care while traversing the treacherous waters of DEI work, advocating for a strong support system amidst the current landscape.

Professional Development and Community Building Promising initiatives like the NASPA 2024 Mid Level Administrators Conference and the Women's Leadership Institute provide pivotal growth and networking opportunities for DEI professionals. Resources Against Regressive Legislation Sharing resources and staying informed are vital for navigating legislative impacts on higher education, as Shawntal passionately discusses.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of On Transitions in Student Affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Hey, essay voices. Welcome back for our next episode. And today, I'm very excited to introduce you to Shawntal Brown. Shawntal aims to advance the values of diversity, equity, and inclusion and promote servant leadership through her research, service, and formal academic appointments. In her current appointment as senior outreach program coordinator for initiatives for campus support in the division of campus and community engagement at the University of Texas at Austin, Shawntal builds connections with students, staff, and faculty so the campus community members can experience a welcoming and inclusive campus climate.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:57]: She enjoys a research based approach to community building, including leveraging campus climate assessment findings to develop resources and strategically approach campus outreach to support equitable environments at the university. Her equity lens is also evident in her service and accolades. Shawntal is the co-president of the Texas Association of Diversity Officers in Higher Education or TADAHE for short and provides TADAHE administrators with professional and personal development opportunities in alignment with the mission, envision, and equity and inclusive experience of the organization. Additionally, she received the NASPA Region 3 DEI Mosaic Award for her passion and support of diversity, equity, and inclusion through her advocacy and research. Shawntal's doctoral research focuses on university presidents and their commitments to DEI through their organizational perspective. Her work, mapping pleasure and pain of women's bodies, Southern Black feminist geographic interventions in the journal Gender, Place, and Culture. And Additionally, she has co authored with doctor Michael a Goodman in ACPA developments called It'll Be Like Biden and Harris, a Black Woman's Conundrum in Collegiate Student Government. To bridge research and practice across disciplines, Shawntal regularly presents at different conferences, including National Women's Studies Association, the Texas Association College and University Student Personnel Administrators or TCUPSA Group, and with NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:16]: Hope you enjoy our conversation. Before this episode moves forward today, I want to ensure that we clarify the timeline for the conversation. Shawntal and I had the pleasure of speaking in mid February 2024. This was prior to the layoffs happening at the University of Florida in the DEIB space. So if you don't hear us reference it or you're confused why something sounds a little different than your expectations, it's because that particular action simply had not occurred yet when this conversation was recorded. If you are a person at the University of Florida who's been impacted by the legislation and by job loss, just want to say that I'm thinking about you and hope that you're able to progress forward in a way that is meaningful and also still helps our students feel included, not just feel included, but become included in our collegiate spaces. I appreciate all of the work that you all are doing and have done. Shawntal, we are thrilled to welcome you to SA Voices.

Shawntal Brown [00:03:14]: Yes. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited for today.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:17]: And in our theme of transitions, we're going to be talking about your transitions primarily as a diversity educator and student activist all the way through to professional who's supporting students who are engaging in activism. And we always love to get to know our guests by asking you how you got to your current seat.

Shawntal Brown [00:03:34]: Yes. So I think going back, I am originally from Oklahoma City. So transferred to Austin, Texas for my master's in women's and gender studies. And so while I was a master's student, I was just trying to find my way of, like, you know, what do I wanna do as a career? What do I want to, like, focus on? And I found myself being in spaces that primarily supported minority student populations. And so first started out in a center called the Gender and Sexuality Center, supported LGBTQIA students, women students within that space, and led different opportunities like a feminist Friday, where we talked about different topics focused on, like, you know, feminist theory, talking about occurring events, things like that. Just supporting folks who are like in different organizations. And so as I was in that space, I was like, I kinda like this. This is like a really cool space to be in.

Shawntal Brown [00:04:23]: I really enjoyed just working along the different program programs that they did, events that were had. And I was like there's there's something about this that I like and so after I finish that internship, I started working at the international office at my institution at the University of Texas at Austin, and I was working with, like, different students from different, countries. So from, like, China, Germany, you name it. We were working with those student populations. And to do that event, I was considered a assistant program coordinator then. And before, I'm not formally trained in, you know, student theory, higher education, and that sends for my master's degree. And so I was like, I wonder how this could pan out as a job in the future. And so slowly but surely continue to do that work, working with different student groups, whether they're international, whether they were, like, you know, minoritized populations, campus.

Shawntal Brown [00:05:17]: And then I found myself, like, I think this is, like, the career path that I wanna go down. And so I was applying for positions that are specifically working with underrepresented students, especially women students. I wanted to, you know, continue to do that work. And after a while, I was able to become a student program coordinator in an engineering office that supported underrepresented students, which was an amazing opportunity because I, like, advise student groups, a lot of professional groups like the National Society of Black Engineers, Society of Hispanic Professional Engineers. I was able to put on programs to welcome, like, prospective students. I did a lot of recruitment work, and then also did, like, classes, taught, like, research research course, getting students it really interested in graduate school, especially underrepresented students because I was just like, you in this space are so important to have as a potential, like, faculty member, as a mentor for, like, future students that are coming behind you. And so I was really passionate about doing that work. But really in that role is doing, like, a little bit of everything, becoming like a Swiss army knife, if you will, in, the space.

Shawntal Brown [00:06:18]: So really getting to know different skills that I was building and helping folks academically, helping folks professionally, you know, all those different realms for those student groups. And so after a while, I was like, this has been a really great opportunity just to really get to know these students, seeing them grow in their different ways. And so that was, like, my first full time position to really see, like, this is a really great opportunity to work with these students. And so now my current role as a senior outreach program coordinator, I work in a division of the of campus and community engagement. It's more focused on the broader campus community as supporting students, staff, and faculty to make sure they have a welcoming and accessible, like, experience at the institution. But really, my pathway kind of just helping support underrepresented groups has been really just like the foundation of where I found myself at the institution and just really enjoy the work that I do.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:09]: And I'll give you a shout out for your work for our listeners. As we mentioned in the bio, Shawntal actually received a NASPA award region 3 for, the DEI Mosaic award supporting diversity, equity, and inclusion. So can you tell us about what work led to that recognition?

Shawntal Brown [00:07:24]: Yeah. Oh, goodness. I would just also wanna shout out the folks who willingly nominated me. I was like, thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. The it was really like a lot of the work that I have done has really been focused on, just supporting the professionals in my role with the Techs Association of Diversity Officers in Higher Education. A mouthful I know, but we call it TADAA here, was really the opportunity for me to really branch out and network with other DEI professionals rather in the state of Texas.

Shawntal Brown [00:07:51]: And so that was kind of, like, one of the many things that folks saw me doing. I'm currently the co president for that. And so that has kind of, like, led to to that recementing my foundation within DEI. I think just also the support of, underrepresented students, like I've mentioned, has really just been, like, the cracks that people can see that connection building that I really love to just put forth with people. And let me see. I think I'm trying to remember one more. I feel like I'm forgetting one more, but I think folks see the overall research. And I'm also doing my my doctorate part time, doing my research focusing on diversity, equity, inclusion.

Shawntal Brown [00:08:28]: And I think people see that that's something that's really just a core value to my, like, higher ed professional life profile. And so I think the folks who nominated me really saw and let that shine through when they wrote those nominations. So I'm really appreciative for them.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:44]: And the work that you were doing for that recognition, also extremely important and kind of unique to tie into higher education. Can you talk a little bit about how you found your research topic? Because I know that is a major question for almost every doctoral student on the planet. Everyone's either on this very big mind space of wanting to study everything, maybe a little bit lost on not knowing what to study.

Shawntal Brown [00:09:06]: Yeah. That's a great question. I think I really started out with, like, the crux of, like, I'm really interested in DEI in my research, but where do I go here? And initially, I was trying to focus more on, like, the staff perspective of, like, flipping it. Like, what could staff do to make DEI more cemented in their goals and their, like, you know, opportunities and things like that. But then I was, like, really sitting with it's bigger than this because my personal opinion in thinking about the institution, I feel like DEI should be really just linked up into, like it should be fully embedded into the infrastructure of the institution. So I was, like, thinking, how can that happen? What does that look like? And read through, like, the literature that I have gone through at this point. They talked about chief diversity officers as, like, really important people to have in these roles, really important to have in these spaces to really amplify that voice. But then in the case of my research specifically, I was like, you know what? Let's shift it.

Shawntal Brown [00:10:00]: Like, what does it mean to have a university president who really supports this? And so that's kind of the perspective I'm taking up. Like, what does it mean for your leadership up above to support the values of diversity and inclusion, whether it be in their state of union addresses and strategic plans. Like what does that mean for them to do this work? And so it was something that it took me a while to get there. I think I kind of, like, was taking the different angles. I think of it as like a diamond. I was like, I'm on this face of the diamond, but I I need to just go over to this face to this face. And now I'm like, oh, I kind of hit where I wanna be. And it's really interesting.

Shawntal Brown [00:10:34]: I might nerd out a little bit on researching because I'm really excited about it to really look at one specific, president that is at the University of Texas at Boston who had a really amazing legacy that I've heard so far, who was William c Powers, who just really did a lot of great work and really amplified diversity, equity, inclusion here. And so I'm kind of curious, how did he do this work? How did he get here? And so I'm very excited to start get to the process of, like, interviewing, chatting with folks to kinda hear about the experiences that people may have had with him. So I'm I'm really excited just to see what does this mean for other future university presidents? What does it mean for folks who are, like, aspiring for this role who also love diversity, equity, inclusion, or value diversity, equity, inclusion too? So I'm really excited for this.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:15]: I think that's really important work to look at that narrative perspective on what it actually looks like in practice. I know that our NASPA colleagues put out a publication not too long ago about campus statements in response to acts of racial aggression or ethnic aggression or marginalized identity based aggression and what they looked like, some of their impact and things like that that came out, I wanna say, maybe couple of years ago. It was post the murder of George Floyd, but it was, I think, still during the pandemic when that came out. So that maybe kind of losing a little steam in terms of age as we all know research does, but I appreciate that I think what you're doing is carrying that forward and looking a little bit deeper at one individual perspective. But I'm wondering as a professional in the DEI realm, what you're seeing in terms of transitioning the work that you're doing because I feel like for a long time, the field was in reactive mode because there was so much happening. And now maybe we're swinging back to being more proactive. What do you see?

Shawntal Brown [00:12:13]: No. I think that's really important now, especially with, like, the social political climate happening, you know, states like Texas, very conservative states with the anti DEI legislature that's going on. And so I think it's an opportunity for professionals who are trying to, 1, remain in compliance with, like, you know, the new law. But then, 2, for folks who are, like, needing to really resubmit and reaffirm the work that they're doing. And so it's definitely, like, a difficult balance right now because to think more broadly about what's going on, folks of the AI professionals or, you know, the new spaces that folks are in trying to still support the new type of work that we're doing is a really tough place. It's definitely like a lot of losses happened, but I think it's more important now than ever to learn how to be proactive in the spaces, especially That's a generous word. Yeah. It's a unique time.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:11]: That's a generous word.

Shawntal Brown [00:13:13]: Yeah. It's a unique time. And so I think it I think there is, like, a future of what we can do to continue to support a version of diversity work and what it can be. But I think it's definitely like a we're kinda rolling with the punches. And I think the proactive piece will definitely it still needs to be there, but I think it'll just have to be a different way of shaping it for it to be still present in our values in of itself, if that makes sense.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:42]: So the unique thing always about the US is that depending on which state you're in, the rules shift drastically. We also have quite a few national members who are not within the United States. So can you please elucidate a little bit what's going on in Texas with the law?

Shawntal Brown [00:13:56]: Yes. No. That's important to just kind of get out of my US centric perspective. So in Texas specifically, there was a bill passed called 7 senate bill 17. It's more colloquially described as, like, the anti DEI bill. And so with this, the bill asked for many different things to be discontinued, such as, like, diversity trainings, opportunities to have specific affinity groups, ally trainings, different types of statements made by individuals. So, like, diversity statements are no longer able to be offered by faculty who are looking into precisions at their institutions. But many all of it did really say that is trying to aim towards, like, a color blind, gender neutral approach to things that happens at the institution, which is very difficult because a lot of the current DEI offices in Texas specifically have to go through undergo a lot of changes.

Shawntal Brown [00:14:49]: And some of these changes resulted a lot of them were resolved. And then an office that, you know, had to come back with something that was gonna abide by the current law of senate bill 17. And so it's definitely been a lot of upheaval just like not specifically I would say upheaval watching it as a professional at my institution, but also looking at the broader, like, Texas institutions and seeing how the different changes are happening. And that's definitely been, like, a really tough time overall just kind of navigating the the spaces and how everyone's kind of doing things a little bit differently. So it's been tough in that front.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:25]: I think Texas, Utah, and Florida are all kind of in the same space right now. How are you transitioning your work on a day to day basis from what maybe you would have done last year or things like trainings or just general inclusion in your campus community? And how do you work towards that now given it feels like it's a little bit antithesis to the new law?

Shawntal Brown [00:15:50]: Yeah. I think I'll I'll highlight Tadee because I think it is a moment where us as an organization, we really wanna provide resources to staff in those spaces and really help them kind of understand the new law and also building community with each other. Because since we Texas is so big, so spread out, there's so many institutions here. And so it's really, like, important to have, like, the community building, like, resource offering to folks because, like I mentioned, like, everyone's doing things a little bit differently, understanding the the law a little bit differently. And so that makes it really tough. I can empathize and, like, relate to, like, the feeling of, like, isolation in some ways of, oh my goodness. We're this little hub here, and we're doing this in this way. And then watching, like, a little hub there, and they're doing it that way.

Shawntal Brown [00:16:40]: And so I think I am fortunate to be in a role with Tati just to kind of be a support system in this time and just really try to bring together the conversations with individuals. Like, we're having our annual summit that's coming up in the summertime, and so we're really trying to bring people, like, let's chat about this. Let's understand it. How can we work together in this time? How can we support each other in this time? And so that's our main push right now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:04]: And what are you seeing that's working?

Shawntal Brown [00:17:06]: I feel like, you know, in the in the broader sense, I think the resource sharing has been more, this is our key. We need to chat about this. We need to talk about these conversations. So resource sharing has been very helpful. Just to understand what's happening at other campuses because we're this is still new. We're about, what, a month in to this new legislature. So it's kind of like, oh, yeah. We need to chat with each other.

Shawntal Brown [00:17:27]: We need to talk to each other. And so definitely, like, receiving articles, keeping up with the news, reading about what's changing, what's happening across the country, across the state, it's been really important during this time.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:38]: And anyone in particular who's been implementing practice differently now in terms of being able to do the work and stay in alignment with what the legislature expects?

Shawntal Brown [00:17:48]: Yeah. I think that's a really great question. And I think a lot of the work that we used to do within our spaces cannot continue. And that's really been tough for us as higher ed professionals to learn the restrictions and the confines that we have to navigate with this new law. And so it really hurts because there's great losses that hasn't been acknowledged enough. I would say just to know that there are centers that are closed that used to support LGBTQ students. There are positions that are being let go of at different institutions. And so there's a lot of grieving that is happening right now amid these different anti DEI laws.

Shawntal Brown [00:18:31]: And so it makes the work that we try to do within the confines of this law much more difficult because we are trying to make sure that we are in compliance to new law. So there's a lot of barriers to us now. And so it does impede a lot of the progress that was made in prior years that we're trying to, you know, we were trying to advance towards equity, and now we can't. And so it's definitely very much antithetical to the work that was previously done, and it's making it more difficult for higher ed professionals to continue to do this work. And so, yeah, that's been really tough and really difficult to just sit with currently.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:09]: Yeah. Let's talk about your students as well or the students in the state of Texas because, you know, we we think about the impact to the profession. We think about, you know, the impact to how our faculty colleagues are also responding. But at the end of the day, the number one population impacted is probably the students who will either no longer be receiving this type of education or who maybe relied on services or communities, that are no longer either allowed or at least recognizable under this new law. So how is that playing out?

Shawntal Brown [00:19:44]: I think in the sense of this law, the students have really stepped up in some ways. And I know that's kind of a tricky thing because I know my personal, like, soap boxes that students came to the institution to learn and not have to do so much advocacy work. And so I hold a bit of tension with it in some ways. But I also say that they have a lot of voice in what they can do and make institutional leaders know, like, this is a problem. We're missing this. We're hurting. We want to make sure that you understand this loud and clear. And I think, like, you know, throughout social media, throughout, like, my personal experience of, like, what I'm seeing broadly is, like, I think that student voice is really important right now.

Shawntal Brown [00:20:24]: It's critical right now, and it's so needed because they are being heard. They are, you know, doing their own organizing. And there are groups that are even outside of the institution that are doing their organizing that, you know, are putting their own resources together to really band with each other, which is really important too. And so I really admire and appreciate what they're doing because it's really gonna be something that's, 1, gonna be important in when we look back at this time to see the work that they've done and acknowledge that work. But then, 2, it's gonna be something that we may need to think about in the future sense too of, like, you know, how can we make sure that students, in a broader sense, kind of get information that's gonna be helpful for them prior to, like, the bills coming up. Maybe more of a, how can we think about legislative, like, education and advocacy for our students? Like, how can that be built into our to our programming and our systems, like, in the future too? So it's kind of like a thought that I hadn't missed about this kind of reflecting the experiences.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:20]: And you were a student activist before becoming a professional in the DEI space. How has your take on the work changed from being a student in the space to being a professional who's leading others in the space?

Shawntal Brown [00:21:32]: I think in my experience, I guess, like for context, I went to the University of Oklahoma for my alma mater. And so there is a unfortunately, a racist incident that happened at the institution that is known as the Sigma Alpha Epsilon, incident. Institution that is known as the Sigma Alpha Epsilon, incident or SAE. It had a lot of, like, press CNN, a lot of, like, you know, large global and local news kind of took over it. And, essentially, it really alienated black students on campus because the fraternity didn't want black men to be part of their organization. And so it was something where in that student activist perspective, I was like, my voice, I feel like I need to share something. Like, my voice is needed in this conversation, and I wanna be able to contribute. And so to really do a lot of work of, like, making your voice known at that time was really important and also engaging in different conversations that people were having.

Shawntal Brown [00:22:24]: So whether it was me on social media talking about, you know, this is why this isn't, you know, this is the article, current events. This is what I think about it. We need to kind of think about how we can incorporate this at the institution is one way I kinda contribute my voice in the conversation. And also showing up to, like, meetings with senior leadership as well as a way to kind of put the face and name, help them understand how we can better improve the experiences for black students specifically at the campus, but also like black faculty to consider them and black staff to consider them. And I think that was really important during that time in addition to there's already a, like, a student activist group called O You and Her that I always tell folks, like, I feel like I was at the 2nd wave of that organization. And the 1st wave of folks were really doing the work, and the 2nd wave was kind of thinking more of, like, how can we make this work be expansive than just this time frame that we're having now. And so to think about all those different experience as a student activist that I've had and coming into this role as, like, being a full time professional, it was interesting to think about when 2020 did happen and then the murder of George Floyd did occur, that there was a lot of student voice that was happening when I was in my role in the the school of engineering. And I was like, oh, when I was in my role in the the school of engineering. And I was like, oh my goodness. This is very reminiscent. This feels familiar. And it was a moment for me to kind of think about, like, where do I step in and where do I step back? Because I know as a professional, there's, like, all the different layers of, like, you know, you cannot represent, like, the institution. You can't represent your department, but how else can you support these students? And so really to be like the the listening ear or the person who's signing, like the list of demands that they had to kind of like cosign with them. If I was able to do that with them, then that was something that I was, like, I feel good about supporting you in this way or folks that, like, wanting to talk about advice about navigating the space or what made sense or who to talk to.

Shawntal Brown [00:24:13]: I think that's kind of how it shifted in a way of from the student perspective, I felt more, I guess, I don't wanna say without restriction, but I guess, like, there's a freeness around, like, you know, how I can, like, express my voice and how I can express my opinion and thoughts and things of that way. But as a staff member, I had to kinda reflect on my sense of, like, power and privilege and kind of, like, know when I can, like, step up in that space and, like, help support or need to step back and let the students kind of lead that and let me be in the background. And so I think that perspective overall has really kind of helped better understand or I guess better empathize really when students do use their voice or, you know, need support in using their voice and kinda think about how the greater picture of, like, what can change at an institution really look like overall with those two perspectives in mind?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:00]: That is a really important lesson that I think a lot of us in campus based higher education need to relearn often, which is in student affairs, we are more often than not the primary advocate and voice for student needs within a university's administration. And that voice has a lot of power, but also it can be marginalized at an institution in a lot of cases. And so often I I think about how much power our students really do have compared to staff, and it is a very different balance. And deciding to sign on to a position statement with students is an interesting balance of choice that we all have to make when presented with that choice. Can you talk a little bit about how you make that choice, to determine whether you're signing on to something that your students are advocating for versus not?

Shawntal Brown [00:25:50]: I think that's a delicate balance. And truthfully, I think I'm still learning. I think in that space of thinking about when I was in engineering, I was appreciative that other staff members were willing to do that same thing for students. And so I felt that since the community from trusted folks who were, like, signing on to their to their positionality statements and speaking up in that way. And I think it was more of a communal thing of, like, you know, yes, we agree with you. We see you. We see the work that you're doing. I think in in now, I think in some ways, I still do that.

Shawntal Brown [00:26:22]: But sometimes I'm used like a personal email, for example, as a way to still kind of do that work because I feel, you know, there is I think I've hear this so many times, like, there's power in numbers and it's really important. And so if I can still provide that support and maybe it's more of a perfect like a personal like, I personally feel like this is something critical that the institution needs to listen to. I will do that work because I want to see the institution or whatever the department, the office change for the better. And once it changes for the better, it changes for everyone. And it's a it's a win for everyone, I feel. And so I think that's like the subtle way I have done it. There's probably other ways that folks probably have thought through it, but I think that's the my catch for all that balancing.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:07]: Especially if you're a public employee choosing to use a personal email is a big thing. Right? So I think everyone would be smart to check with their local regulations on what that means for public records and whole bunch of other things. But, yeah, it's it's definitely an interesting balance. And then at some point in your career as you grow, that letter's being sent to you as opposed to you being asked to sign on to it. And then we're in a position to decide how we engage in dialogue and actions and how we determine what's actionable and not actionable. What's usually, everything is quite reasonable, but what is actionable is a different question given budget and time and, human resources and all those things. I absolutely have so much respect for what's going on for DEI professionals. And as like I said, in Texas, Utah, Florida, you all are on the forefront of what could be a policy trend.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:01]: And then on the other side, you know, we've got states that are instituting protective measures for these efforts instead. Do you have any advice for DEI professionals who are out there navigating these waters on a daily?

Shawntal Brown [00:28:14]: I guess one thing is please take care of yourself during this time because it's hard. It has definitely been hard. I think that that has been the biggest thing that I feel like I'm still in some ways learning of, like, needing to step away for a moment as much as I'm able to and kind of step back. Because at the end of the day, it's like it's a very large thing that's happening, like, across the United States, across specific states. And I think if you have the support to lean on someone else or to tap in someone else to kind of be there for you as you kind of, like, take that moment to yourself is really important. I think it's a tricky thing, but I think that's something that I wish I kinda had that person, like, in the midst of things changing or learning about the legislation. I kinda wish I had a tap and being like, hey, Shawntal, you need to go sit down for a moment. You need to rest for a moment.

Shawntal Brown [00:29:04]: And that has been something that I feel like that is at the core now. For me, it's just kind of slowing down, taking the step away, reading a book, meditating, whatever I need to to kind of repour my cup for myself and to kind of still understand the the current landscape that we're in.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:20]: It's such simple and beautiful advice, but so hard to actually do. The delivery of that is really challenging, I think, in the hustle and bustle of our present day.

Shawntal Brown [00:29:30]: Yes. But it's a good like a reminder. So check-in, it's kind of like check-in like, Hey, how are you doing? And then really kind of assess like, what makes sense for you to like, continue in the day.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:41]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:47]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world and a lot of things happening. Though we're past the NASPA annual conference, there's a number of other professional development opportunities that are coming up. One such event is the 2024 NASPA Mid Level Administrators Conference. The early registration for this conference closes on Friday, March 29th. Join us in Indianapolis, Indiana for a transformative professional development experience tailored for mid level student affairs professionals like you. Discover cutting edge strategies for organizational leadership, master the art of managing from the middle, and unlock your full potential in influencing change. Connect with peers, exchange insights, and build a robust network of allies to support your growth.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:32]: Don't miss out on this opportunity to level up your skills and take your career to new heights. Register now and embark on a journey of growth, learning, and connection at mlac 2024. The conference itself runs from June 13th to June 15th in Indianapolis, Indiana. If you want more information, go to the NASPA website and find out more. The 2024 Women's Leadership Institute is running from December 10th through 13th in San Diego, California. ACUI, Association of College Unions International, and NASPA are partnering to bring you an experience focused on women leaders in higher education. This institute offers strategies for women who plan to lead with lasting impact. ACUI and NASPA are seeking programs that will inspire participants to become an inspirational and effective leader.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:23]: The program is designed by women for women. If you have a program that you would like to submit, submit it on the NASPA website by April 26th to be considered for this. Some of the topics that the Leadership Institute looks to cover include supervision and performance management, strategic planning, financial well-being, upskill, reskill the bridge to the future, delegating and giving away, picking up new skills and putting things down among others. Again, the deadline to submit your program is April 26, and I encourage you to go to the NASPA website to find out more. Volume 25 of the Journal of College and Character is out. And as a NASPA member, you have access to the Journal of College and Character among a number of other great journals that will help you in your own professional development. This peer reviewed publication has a number of amazing articles that are in it. And in this issue, there are a ton of peer reviewed articles as well as some specific focus areas on student engagement with spiritual and secular world views, diversity and social justice and interfaith cooperation.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:36]: I highly encourage you to check out the Journal of College and Character for yourself. If you've never checked out the journals, go to the NASPA website, highlight publications, and go down to the Journal of College and Character. You'll also see the other 3 journals that are available for NASPA members, the Journal of First Generation Student Success, the Journal of Student Affairs Research and Practice, and the Journal of Women short course that is happening between March 25th April 26th on basic counseling skills. This short course is a primer on the fundamental critical topic of mental health and how to support students on your campus and beyond tailored for non clinical professionals. The program will focus on hands on skills needed for empathetic listening and effective referral making based on NASBA's book, Basic Counseling Skills for Higher Education Professionals, topics include anxiety and depression, sexual assault and violence, well-being and burnout, current trends in student mental health, making referrals, student support, and more. You can register for this short course on the NASPO website. This course is set up as 5 60 minute live sessions that'll be held every Wednesday at 1 PM EST. They're scheduled for March 27th, April 3rd, April 10th, April 17th, and April 24th.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:02]: Again, go to the NASPA website and learn more. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents, association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:25]: Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:30]: Chris, we really appreciate you always updating us on what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Shawntal, that means we have made it to our lightning round of our show. I have 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. Feeling ready?

Shawntal Brown [00:35:44]: I'm ready.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:45]: Alright. Let's roll. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Shawntal Brown [00:35:50]: Because I'm gonna say Texas Hold. I'm gonna be Beyonce.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:52]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Shawntal Brown [00:35:56]: An astronaut.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:56]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Shawntal Brown [00:35:59]: Oh my goodness. I would say doctor Sophia Morin at the University of Oklahoma.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:05]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Shawntal Brown [00:36:08]: Not necessarily within student affairs, but I would say Set Boundaries, Find Peace by Nedra Glover Tawab.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:15]: Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic.

Shawntal Brown [00:36:18]: Oh, goodness. I watch a lot of true crime, so that's probably what was something I was watching during that time.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:24]: Number 6, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Shawntal Brown [00:36:28]: Oh, that is You Need to Hear This by Metro Global Chihuahua. Wonderful, wonderful podcast.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:33]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional?

Shawntal Brown [00:36:37]: Oh, goodness. I like to thank my husband, Cody. He's always there listening to me, listening ear. I'll shout it out to my family in Oklahoma and all the folks that I have made friends with and and who have supported me in the state of Texas. There's a lot of people, but I hope they all know who they are.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:54]: Well, it's been wonderful to learn from you today, Shawntal, and to hear your perspective on the evolution of DEI work in these states that are becoming more challenging to deliver that work in on a daily. If anyone would like to find community with you after the show, how can they reach you?

Shawntal Brown [00:37:09]: Yes. I'm really active on Twitter. It is @ShawntalBrown, capital s, capital b. You can find me there. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. And then I also have a Instagram, Shawntal_ or Shawntal_brown_22. So happy to connect with folks on all those platforms.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:27]: Thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Shawntal Brown [00:37:29]: Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:33]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:14]: This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr.Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

View Details

The annual NASPA conference, a gathering of student affairs professionals, is a platform for networking, learning, and sharing experiences. In a recent episode of the "Student Affairs Voices from the Field" podcast, host Dr. Jill Creighton provides insight into the themes and focus areas of the conference, as well as the importance of engaging in discussions related to navigating uncertainty, care amidst chaos, and inclusion and belonging within the field of student affairs.

Opportunities in Uncertainty:

The theme of "navigating the opportunities of uncertainty" acknowledges the ever-evolving landscape of higher education. Student affairs professionals often grapple with constant changes, whether it be in policies, technology, or the needs of the student population. Embracing uncertainty can lead to growth, innovation, and adaptability within the field. As Dr. Creighton points out, this theme encourages professionals to find the silver lining in times of ambiguity, recognizing that within uncertainty lies the potential for transformation and positive change.

Care in Chaos:

The second focus area, "care in chaos," resonates deeply with those working in student affairs, especially during turbulent times. Practicing self-care and extending empathy towards students and colleagues is pivotal in maintaining a healthy and supportive work environment. The theme highlights the significance of prioritizing mental health, fostering resilience, and promoting a culture of care within the student affairs community. Dr. Creighton's emphasis on nurturing individuals amidst chaos underscores the importance of emotional well-being while navigating the complexities of the profession.

Justice, Equity, Diversity, Inclusion, and Belonging:

The conference's third focus area amplifies the ongoing dialogue surrounding justice, equity, diversity, inclusion, and belonging (JEDIB). Creating inclusive environments where all individuals feel valued and represented is essential in student affairs. Dr. Creighton underscores the importance of actively engaging in conversations about systemic injustices, promoting diversity, and advocating for equity within the field. The theme serves as a reminder of the continuous work required to dismantle barriers and foster environments of genuine belonging for all members of the academic community.

Recognition and Appreciation:

In addition to discussing the conference themes, Dr. Creighton takes a moment to acknowledge the tremendous contributions of her co-host, Dr. Chris Lewis, who has been awarded the Pillar of the Profession award from NASPA. This recognition not only celebrates Dr. Lewis's leadership and dedication but also underscores the spirit of collaboration and mentorship within the student affairs community. It serves as a reminder of the impact that individuals can make on the profession and the importance of honoring their influence and achievements.

Conclusion and Call to Action:

The podcast episode concludes with an invitation for attendees to engage with the "Student Affairs Voices from the Field" team during the conference, expressing interest in sharing their voices on the aforementioned focus areas. Dr. Creighton encourages listeners to connect with the show through feedback, topic suggestions, and spreading the word to colleagues. This call to action emphasizes the power of collective participation and dialogue, highlighting the significance of community engagement and knowledge-sharing within the student affairs profession.

In summary, the NASPA conference provides an invaluable platform for professionals to delve into critical topics, engage in meaningful discourse, and draw inspiration from each other's experiences. The podcast episode not only sheds light on the conference's themes but also serves as a catalyst for ongoing conversations and collaborative efforts within the vibrant tapestry of student affairs.

The "Student Affairs Voices from the Field" podcast exemplifies the commitment to amplifying diverse perspectives and fostering a sense of community within the profession, ultimately contributing to the continuous advancement of student affairs.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:50]: The second is care in chaos. And the third is justice, equity, diversity, inclusion, and belonging. Like in years past, Chris and I will be moving about the conference with our portable audio recorders asking you to contribute your voice to this show on those three topic areas. So if you happen to come across one of us, please feel free to approach us and let us know that you would love to share your voice. We would love to feature you. After we've done that, you'll hear from us following the conference with an episode featuring all of your stories. I also wanna take a moment to give a mega huge shout out to Dr. Chris Lewis. He is receiving the Pillar of the Profession award this year from NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:29]: And I just wanna say a personal thank you to Chris for his partnership in creating this podcast and for all of his leadership within the profession. Many of you may not know that Chris actually founded the Student Affairs Partnering with Academic Affairs Knowledge Community, or I think it's SAPA for short. So if that's an area of interest for you, that's also a great area for you to connect with us on. So we hope to see so many of you in Seattle. Have a very safe journey and we will be back with regular episodes next week. This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:15]: If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5-star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:53]: Catch you next time.

View Details

Transitioning Toward Inclusivity and Excellence in Student Affairs

Student affairs professionals are essential to the fabric of higher education, guiding students through their transformational college journey while grappling with their own career advances. Dr. Anna Gonzalez, NASPA's incoming board chair, brings her extensive experience in higher education to the forefront in a recent episode of the Student Affairs Voices from the Field podcast. As a first-generation college student and Filipino immigrant, she not only shares the lessons of her personal history but also sets the stage for the future of student affairs.

Embracing Identity and Leading with Inclusion

A journey marked by immigration at a young age, the pursuit of education, and ultimately, a leadership role in NASPA, Dr. Gonzalez's story is one of overcoming barriers and bringing true diversity to student affairs. Her advocacy for first-generation students, her stride in higher education policy, and her commitment to fostering diversity enrich the conversation around transitions within the student affairs profession.

Pioneering Change Amidst Global Challenges

In these times of global connectivity and unforeseen challenges, such as the COVID-19 pandemic, Dr. Gonzalez's experience transitioning to a significant role at WashU and her decision to accept the position as NASPA chair are testaments to adaptability and resilience. The interview, spanning two continents, showcases the transformative power of leaders who embrace change and prioritize the well-being of their colleagues and students.

Fostering Well-Being and Job Satisfaction in Student Affairs

The podcast delves into the crucial role of mid-level professionals in student affairs and the specific, intentional support they require. Dr. Creighton and Dr. Gonzalez emphasize the importance of strong supervision and staff recognition, addressing job satisfaction, workforce diversity, and benefits to cultivate healthy work-life balance. The ongoing dialogue underscores the necessity of redefining expectations for salaried employees in higher education and promoting a culture that appreciates the indispensable contributions of student affairs professionals.

The Path Forward: Advocacy and Policy in Higher Education

The episode not only celebrates the trajectory of Dr. Gonzalez but also presents crucial touchpoints for the future of student affairs, including advocacy in higher education policy. It illuminates the structural changes needed to recognize the value of student affairs and its impact on students and the civic health of society at large. Dr. Gonzalez's presidency promises to bring these concerns to the forefront, ensuring that higher education remains a pillar of opportunity and empowerment for all students.

Conclusion: A Call to Action for Student Affairs Professionals

Dr. Anna Gonzalez's reflections offer a beacon of inspiration and a call to action for student affairs professionals to advocate for change, recognize their value, and create inclusive environments for learning and growth. Her leadership in NASPA champions these principles, urging educators and policymakers alike to consider the significant influence they have in shaping the future of higher education.

Listening to the SA Voices from the Field podcast offers an enriching perspective on the multifaceted roles of student affairs professionals. To capture the full essence of Dr. Gonzalez's insights and guidance, tune in to the podcast and join in the conversation around student affairs transformation. TRANSCRIPTS

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of on transitions in student affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Welcome back to essay voices from the field where today we are thrilled to welcome NASPA's incoming board chair, doctor Ana Gonzalez. Doctor Gonzalez leads successful student affairs operations with a particular commitment to fostering diversity and inclusion in all aspects of student life. With 30 years of experience in higher education, she previously held positions at the University of California Irvine, the University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign, and at Lewis and Clark College where she was a founding faculty member and program director for the master's program in student affairs administration in the Graduate School of Counseling and Education. Doctor Gonzalez most recently came from Harvey Mudd College, an institution within the Claremont Colleges consortium where she served as the vice president for student affairs as well as the program director and faculty member at the Claremont Graduate University. Her research interests are focused on first generation students, immigrant students, equity and diversity, higher education policy and governance, student affairs administration, and higher education finance.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:23]: A 1st generation college student who immigrated to the US at the age of 10, doctor G graduated from Loyola Marymount University with a bachelor's degree in international business. She earned her master's in doctoral degrees, both in education, from Claremont Graduate University. Anna, welcome to SA Voices.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:01:40]: Hi. How are you doing, Jill?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:42]: I'm so glad to be speaking with you. We are spread wide apart on the globe today with you calling in from Hawaii, and I am currently sitting in Paris, France. So we appreciate the accommodation of the time zone action.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:01:54]: This is fantastic. This is how our world is now, actually. We are global at all kinds of time zones, so it's fantastic.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:02]: And I think fairly representative of how NASPA's growing too anyway.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:02:06]: I definitely believe so. I think so. We'll definitely see it at the conference too.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:09]: Well, we've made a tradition out of interviewing the incoming NASPA board chair since Chris and I started collaborating on the show. So I believe you are the 5th board chair that we've had the pleasure of having on the show to talk about your transition, but this is the 1st time that our season has been themed to transitions while the board chair transition was happening. So we're we're right on point today.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:02:33]: That's great. And I love the theme. I think that's perfect in terms of my life and my career, so I love it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:39]: We've had probably the most outpouring of support for this particular theme. It's the 1st time we're ever doing a double season on the theme because so many people relate to the stories of transition that we've been sharing. And so I'm hoping yours will also be one that people can relate to today. We always like to start kind of with a big open question, though, which is, how did you get to your current seat? And that could be either as board chair or at WashU or both and or anywhere else in between.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:03:06]: Well, I'll talk a little bit. I think about the WashU transition, and then I'll actually go into my job I mean, my NASPA chairmanship. The WASHI transition was something that happened. I was not looking for a change. I was at Harvey Mudd, small college, university, about 900 students in Southern California where I'm from, and I graduated from the Claremont Colleges. And so I thought I would stay there forever. The pandemic happened, which was a big transition for all of us globally, and I was, one of the people in charge of transitioning through the pandemic and afterwards. And I think that really gave me pause and thought of as the as I learned about the position at WashU, am I ready to go back to an in person with in a small school, which I loved, or am I ready to think about a bigger challenge in terms of the number of students in the middle of the country where there were so many things happening where the issue of my vote would matter.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:04:08]: My my vote would matter in California, but I think my vote would matter more in the middle of the country at a place like Missouri. And I decided that I was ready for another transition. I survived. At times, I even weirdly thrived during the pandemic, and so I thought I had one more big oomph to give back to the higher education community as well as my own passions for being engaged in communities outside of higher ed, some were different, and so I decided to take the plunge and transition to WashU. My transition to NASH was so fascinating. I've been into organization active since, I think, 1994 when I was a new professional. Never thought I would be the NASPA chair. A lot of people say that.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:04:51]: I never thought that. I never thought that's gonna be me, in large part because the people who I saw who were chairs didn't look like me. I think they were almost all male at that time and white. And so that just was this didn't seem like a place for me. I also worked at a cross cultural center. So I was in multicultural affairs. Loved, loved, loved it and, again, never saw people like me in those roles. And then people like Lori White, Doris Ching, and others started taking on this role of leading our wonderful organization.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:05:23]: And that's when I thought, oh, it can happen. It can happen to someone with similar experiences like me. And over time, I decided to, I was nominated for different, leadership roles at NASPA. I also volunteered for others and eventually transitioned to this role.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:39]: Would you mind sharing some of your identities since this is an audio only podcast? And you mentioned not being able to see yourself represented, it'd be great if you'd be willing to share who you are in that space.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:05:49]: Oh, thanks so much, Jill. Yes. I'm born in the Philippines, so Filipino by birth. I always tell people culturally, my family, just the way we grew up, was so much connected with both Filipino, East Asian, and actually Chicano identities, being where I was in Southern she, her. Grew up as 1st gen limited income and went through college, really. 1st gen limited income through all that went to a significant part. And then I immigrated, so an immigrant to the United States as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:30]: That's a lot of transitions. How have your transitions of identity being in your country of birth for a little while and then coming to the United States at kind of a younger age, how has that experience and that transition impacted your worldview on higher education?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:06:46]: I first came to the United States, I told people and, oh, actually, we were at that time, I guess, we were undocumented too and didn't really have an understanding of that. Right? So as a child coming to United States, they didn't wanna tell people why we were coming. Right? That was a whole danger to that. So there had to be lots of secrecy. And so we literally were told we're just gonna go on this trip or a vacation to see the rest of our family again and be reunited with my parents. And so we went on a plane, came as immigrants, as young children, 10 and 6, my brother and I, and didn't really know. We were made to feel safe by our immediate family. We all lived together, my uncles and aunts.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:07:23]: I think it was 17 people in a 3 bedroom house for a while even when we first came. Yeah.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:29]: That's crowded.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:07:30]: It was kinda crowded, but, you know, it was kind of a big summer party. Right? But, yes, it was crowded. I think the adults probably felt it more than the children. And so it was wonderful to grow up with cousins and my grandmother, in particular, who really took care of us, and she made such a significant impact in my life. And so went through that, and I remember not knowing. But I remember my aunts and, like, would always say, don't tell people about how you came here. Like, you just came, and we never talked about paper or being legal. It was when I first wanted to work that they said you can't get a job when I was in in my teens.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:08:02]: Other people could start working, and they couldn't get a permit. And I remember oh my gosh. And then there was the amnesty that both Republicans and Democrats came together back in the day in 19 eighties, and they actually passed an amnesty for people like me who were in the country for a significant period of time, who were able to get to that whole transition of all of a sudden ruining the shadows to, I have my paper. And what did that green that that green card mean was hugely significant and transformative for my family, but we were doing the same things. We were obeying the laws. We were working. Everyone was working. Right? Paying taxes, actually.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:08:38]: Right? Some of them were working in offices. And then all of a sudden, you get this green card and you get this sense of relief. But, really, I thought that was just the weirdest thing. At at 15 and 16, I remember thinking, this is weird, that that somehow that 1 piece of paper by 1 act would change our whole life when we were living and doing the same things. I

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:58]: think that's such an important story within student affairs because we talk so much about supporting our students through their journey for documentation or journey for, you know, financial aid that those stories are also amongst us in the profession.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:09:19]: Yeah. And I didn't really know how to talk about it. I actually learned a lot from students and staff who I work with who are undocumented and or who are DACA, and they're so brave. And I remember that they talk about it. They advocate for rights, and I just honor that. I honor their experiences. It it's similar to mine, but I didn't know how to voice it or talk about it until I listened to their stories.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:43]: Did you move towards citizenship after your green card?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:09:45]: Yes. That took a while because I actually wasn't sure. So that one, my family let us make the choice, which I love my dad and my mom, and I I love my family for allowing us as children. Right? We were still under 18 to make that choice for ourselves. But so I didn't become a citizen until after I could vote until, gosh, I was already a full time staff member. I really had to think about it and what that would mean for me. And finally, it was about voting, and I wanted to vote. It was important, and it was actually at a time when a lot of propositions in California were trying to take away rights, like affirmative action, like services to undocumented peoples, and even really immigrants in California that was happening.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:10:25]: And so I thought, you know what? I need to become a citizen so I can vote.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:29]: Tell us about that transition from being a green cardholder to being able to have that right to vote.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:10:34]: Oh my gosh. You know, the privilege that you get as a citizen of the United States, the the privilege to vote, it is a right and a privilege, I have to say, but also like traveling. Many places that I could go to I remember I worked for a semester at sea. I took 4 voyages, a semester at sea, and some people had to get visas and other things. And I was like, oh, there's all these countries where if you're a US citizen, you don't have to do any of that. I'm like, oh my gosh. What's that mean? Or being asked questions showing documentation. I could say, yes, I was not born in the United States, but I could show them my passport, and it was like a big easy check.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:11:06]: And so there was definitely a lot of privilege that I felt that I never take for granted because I used to not have that. And so I always honor that, and I I try to be a good citizen, I think. So

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:18]: I think as American citizens, we often don't have the awareness that, you know, we hold I think it's right now the 7th most powerful passport in the world. There are quite a few ahead now, but that has to do with, you know, being able to enter other nations without applying for a visa or paying for a visa or simply just being allowed access instead of being denied think, puts us in an interesting position.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:11:46]: Yes. It does. It really does. And I'm not sure we talk about this as much as we should in terms of even in higher education or in other places that we should talk about. Is what does that mean for us, the great responsibility that we should think about having the citizenship. There's the privilege, but also this great responsibility that we need to, like, discuss and really engage in and own, and we need to own it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:09]: Let's talk more about responsibility, which is your NASPA board chairship. Every time we've had on a NASPA board chair, the one big theme that I can draw a line through each of you is that you're really occupying a space of stewardship for the organization rather than driving a personal agenda forward. And I think that's a big shift that happened when NASA shifted from electing a president to electing a board chair. But I'm wondering if you can talk about what you're hoping, the board you will lead will be able to achieve across the next year.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:12:40]: I think that's a great question. I've been thinking a lot. You know, when I ran from NASPA board chair for the listeners, I'll remind them that I ran on 3 things. I still am thinking about that. But the first is, and it is not in any order, healthy excellence. That means in terms of, like, what does well-being look like for our profession and not just the students. Right? We love the students, but this one is more us. This is more us as practitioners.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:13:03]: It's time for us to think about how do we thrive in our roles, which I love, given all my work life in NASPA in term and student affairs, right, in terms of this is my profession, has always just been. I chose to be in it. But how do we thrive and be healthy, and how do we think of well-being when we have events that we go to? I mean, when you go to a national conference, it's like, oh, yay. 6 AM till, like, 2 AM. Right? Some people go that route. That is not healthy. You know? And and what does that mean? What does that look like? So even things like that. I really want us to engage in our work, in what we do, both the organization and our profession.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:13:40]: I think the second one is of the mid level. That is our largest as a constituent single constituent. It is the largest membership of our organization. And what does a mid level mean? What competencies? And to break that group down further, right, into, like a mid level could be someone 7 years and someone, like, 28 years in the profession. And I think that's a huge, big gap. And so what does that look like, and how do we both break that down a little bit, and how do we honor the mid level. Right? People are wanna sometimes they're like, I'm happy where I'm at, but I wanna gain different skills. I wanna continue having an amazing life in the work that I do, but what does that mean? But some people in the mid level wanna be like, I wanna become a vice president or I wanna become president.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:14:24]: Right? And what does that mean? Mid level also for me transitions. Do I stay in the field? Do I leave the field? Right? I think that's where we really have to engage our folks. So mid level for me is huge. And then the 3rd piece is and it's so important now is why higher education.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:38]: Yeah. That's a big one for the US.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:14:40]: It is. And the impact of higher education, the impact of student affairs in the purpose of students' lives, in young people's lives, and in countries in the civic health of our nation? And I think the answer is higher education. And I think student affairs is actually the the big the change agent and the why of higher ed. I think it's what we do and what we, as professionals, teach our students. And so those are my big three for NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:08]: Let's touch back on that midlevel piece because I think a lot about to the transitions that can feel very, very large in the midlevel from assistant director to associate director to director to perhaps senior executive director. Each of those levels within the midlevel carry their own transitions, their own responsibility differences, and their own growth. So we I think we tend to look at the mid level as a little bit of a bigger monolith than perhaps it actually is within student affairs. I think it's probably you know, there's smaller pieces within it. But what are you hoping for those mid level professionals

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:15:49]: chunk, but we just call them 1 big, big level. Like, the mid level institute. Okay. That gives literally anyone. I mean, what does that actually mean? And so you I wanna make sure that we'd look at the breakdown of what what that is. And what does that mean for NASPA? I think it's being more intentional, not looking at the size of an event, but saying, you know what? We're gonna have mid level based on up to 10 years of experience, and that's gonna be a smaller group, and that's okay. Right? And we're going to look at the competencies that you need based on that versus, like, the competencies that you need. If you were a director executive director mid level, but only with with 12 years experience, but that's completely different than the previous group.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:16:32]: So it's gonna have to it's gonna have to be that our association, our board, our regions, and even our divisions have to look critically at what we're doing for the mid level because we have lumped them too big, I think. And so it's just like, oh, the mid level. And that's, like, kinda the catchall. It shouldn't be the catchall.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:48]: And some of our mid level professionals don't supervise other professionals but supervise students. Some of our mid level professionals supervise large teams, which can include professionals, graduate students, and undergraduate students. It's it's a wide band. And I think my one major complaint with our development as professionals really throughout my entire career is that there's really a lack of education on how to be a strong supervisor. And if you wanna go find that work, you really have to seek it for yourself, and I'd really love to see us develop more of that for our professionals anyway.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:17:21]: I agree. That's great. See, me too. I'm excited. Gonna jump on the bandwagon. Let let's do this. I Let's go. Let's go.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:17:27]: Let's go. I love it. I think it's if I could really leave anything the mid level is the big question, and I just wanna make sure. I walk around NASPA, and I'm like, you're a mid level. You're a mid level. You're a mid level. And what does that mean?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:41]: Yeah. Absolutely. You also mentioned health and well-being as a priority, for our profession. I think that I've been seeing a real slide in terms of balance or integration with work life as of late. We did okay for some, but not for others in the pandemic. And now that we're coming out the other side, it feels like budgets are, you know, constantly being squeezed. People are being asked to do more with less or more people to jobs for the same amount of pay. So how are you hoping to promote that well-being knowing that there's a there you know, let's name it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:15]: There's been of a bit of a morale hit to the profession as of late.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:18:19]: Yes. No. I agree. It's I think it was already happening definitely before the pandemic. I think it got exacerbated during the pandemic, and it's still here. I told someone, it's not necessarily the money that you throw at people in terms of making them satisfied at their position. The way that things are, I I get it. If you're an entry level, it's not you're not gonna get 6 figures your 1st year.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:18:42]: I mean, that's not and even for many, it's not gonna be that way necessarily for for a while.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:47]: Or possibly ever in this profession. Yeah.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:18:49]: Right. Or possibly ever. Thank you. Like, thanks for saying that. And at the end of the day, even if that were that's not necessarily the only thing that's gonna give people job satisfaction. It is being noted for the good work that we do. It doesn't help when you turn on the news and the newspapers, and you're, like, working so hard. You're a resident you're a RCD.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:19:13]: You just stayed up all night helping save a student's life. You know you made an impact, and then you turn on the news and you have people say, let's close down colleges and universities. Like, okay. No. Don't do that. Right? They just did something great. That doesn't help either to work in a field where people are saying they don't trust you. So one is, like, how do we honor and celebrate our staff, our our fantastic staff members.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:19:36]: Right? And we have fantastic staff members. I think too is how do we engage it so that the work doesn't become routine? Because there is a boredom factor to it. It's like the same old, same old. I'm not saying necessarily we're gonna make up a new job for someone, but how does it become exciting? How do we make sure that our staff equitably get opportunities to serve, for example, on different committees? So once it you know, so one day, it'll be your turn to serve on a building project. How exciting is that to be the capital projects? Not necessarily just people with titles. There's gonna be opportunities for everyone in different ways. And, also, because one day, they may wanna become director of housing, and you really can't be director of housing without having some kind of capital experience. Or how do we get a staff member to even rotationally supervise other staff? Because we can't make up staff members.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:20:27]: I get it. But instead of them supervising an undergrad, can we say, hey. This year, you're the one that's gonna supervise the graduate students to get more of that experience? Those are the things. And then, also, what kind of benefits, childcare benefits can we give our staff? Tuition benefits. Not every school does tuition benefits. Partner benefits. You know? Kind of we gotta think creatively to get people noted that these are difficult and transformative jobs and that we need to invest in our people.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:55]: Absolutely. I think one of the most radical things that I've seen happen as of late is, you know, the the state of Washington has their overtime laws that have gone into effect, which I'm very, very pro. And those laws, even for salaried employees, have limits on how many hours you can work per month, but it's requiring those institutions to redefine what a salaried employee is expected to do, and I think that's really good for the field.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:21:19]: Yep. I agree. And, also, the other piece, it's on us too. How do we allow ourselves? How do how do I, vice chancellor, like, just tell people it's okay to not check email every day? Sometimes sometimes I I'll talk for myself. I do that. Right? I check it constantly. And one time, I got really sick, and and I did not check it at all because I just couldn't. I couldn't physically check it.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:21:42]: It would not have been good for me to check it. And then it was fine. The job was fine. My students thrived. It was 2 or 3 days of just really barely, like, looking at my email and barely were really not working. And I realized, okay. Wait a second. It's gonna be okay.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:21:56]: So it's also teaching ourselves. Give ourselves grace, and we're not gonna work we're not gonna make ourselves work and think work 20 4/7.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:03]: And that really comes straight from the top. It has to start with your president empowering your vice chancellor, vice president to do that, and your vice chancellor, vice president really saying, hey. This is the culture we're gonna set for the organization.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:22:15]: I love it. Unless there's an absolute emergency, my boss does not send this email. So, like, he came in to WashU, and he talked about how he doesn't expect he's not going himself going to do, like, email past a certain time. Like, I wasn't there when it happened, but people talk about that. And it really shifted something, like, past 5 or 6 or, you know, not on weekends. It's fantastic. And I thought it was really sharing a vulnerability for him to talk about the fact that he has a life, and he has a family, and that's important.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:40]: And now the 3rd priority you mentioned was really anchoring into the value of higher education. And I think one of the most important things that NASPA does is advocacy in Washington, DC. So I'll give a shout out to the public policy division and also Diana Ali, who is the policy person with one of the policy people, anyway, within NASBA as well as Jill Dunlap. And they do some incredible work to track all sorts of state policies that are impacting higher education. We just saw a weird bill in Utah that is kind of mirroring what had been going on in Florida, which is also wild to me because I don't understand how it's not being challenged as a violation of the First Amendment in more intense ways right now, but that's a whole other conversation. But I'm wondering, Anna, how you envision NASPA telling the story of higher education or advocating for the value in your year as board chair.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:23:31]: No. I think that's great. I you know, I think for me, there's several things that we need to do. The importance of the why of college, one of the reasons why I went to college was to help transform my family's future. Right? And, yes, it is about jobs and careers. One of the big reasons that I went to college. I think if I told my dad I was going to go to college, but not really sure what that would mean, he would have been like, wait. We're gonna pulling in all our money to have you go, see how you do so that the rest of your cousins and your brother could go.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:23:57]: And you're not really sure why your our time and our talent and your time and your money is not gonna I'm like, it would have been unfathomable for my family and for my my background. So I think the why is one of them is the kinds of careers and opportunities for people because of their college degree. When you graduate from college versus when you don't, the wealth accumulation over time, the opportunities is greater. I mean, that is one of the things. But it's not about your major in terms of what your career is going to be. It is about the things that student affairs also does. Right? It's not just one thing. It's about the leadership training that we give them, the empathy that we teach them through experiential things, like being a club and organization president is one way.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:24:42]: Communication skills that we teach them. Right? We engage them to think of differences, like what we have at WashU, dialogue across differences. And what does that mean? To dialogue with someone is something that we in student affairs engage and teach them to live with someone from a completely different background and then to be able to share. Sharing is caring. And then to think about your well-being, right, in different ways. The things that we teach in student affairs allows for an individual to go through college and learn those skills and to be an amazing leader outside in the world, to look at their careers in profound ways. Not just, I'm just gonna work and get my pay, but I'm gonna work. I'm gonna transform.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:25:24]: I'm gonna be a leader. I'm gonna be engaged in community. And a lot of that is because of the 4 years or so that we have taught them in colleges, whether it's a 2 year college or a 4 year college or even, you know, doctoral programs. Right? So I think that we hold the key, and we don't talk about, we don't share those stories. I think student affairs, we are so humble, and we make sure that we lift up our students. But in doing so, I think we've forgotten to lift up the profession itself and explain what we do. We need to explain what we do. I don't think that we should celebrate the fact that our own parents don't know what we do.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:26:00]: My parents don't know what I do. Right? Right? And we and we, yeah, and we laugh, and we celebrate it. Like, this is that career, and it's like, no. That's not good. People know what other people do. We should talk about what we do.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:10]: And I think I'd be one of the very first to say that the degree is important, but it doesn't define the future as much as some of the soft skills do. I think I've shared on the show before, but my bachelor's degree is in music performance, and it's not something that I anchor into daily for the skills that I need in my job.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:26:27]: I should have you sing for us, though. Yeah. I'll be sending.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:31]: Well, I'll share kind of a secret. If you look hard enough, you can find me singing on TikTok and YouTube. But you have to look really hard, and it's not under my real name.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:26:41]: It's kinda funny. I mean, I don't really use those 2 apps as much, but okay. What is that?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:47]: What was your bachelor's in honor?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:26:49]: International visits, actually. And I and I'd use those skills that I learned today. I've always used it. I've learned so many things about balance sheets and what matters. And it's funny because when I say that, it's not necessarily that money matters. It's actually what matters in terms of the values that you put into time and treasure. And so that's what I learned. But so I utilize it a lot in my in my daily work, but I'm not in a business career.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:27:15]: Does that if that makes sense?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:17]: Are there any words of wisdom, wishes, or thoughts that you'd like to share with the NASPA membership in general?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:27:24]: Someone I learned this as a faculty member from a participant at the last APIDA Leadership Institute. And I wanna say, I remember this person said, and I wish I would I could know who it is, but I wanna honor the person who who said this. She said someone told her once to fall in love with her staff, and I've been thinking about that a lot. And for me, for my words of wisdom would be fall in love with the field. Remember why you chose it because we chose this field, and fall in love with it. And if you're thinking that, you know, I'm having a really hard time right now. I fell in love with it once, but I'm thinking of a breakup or a break. That's okay.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:28:05]: But then find support and help about that and think through, do you stay with it, which is fine. Do you leave it, which is also fine. But if you're gonna stay with it, learn, and relearn how to fall in love with it. Because for me, that's what helped me thrive every day. For some of us, falling in love with it means really loving our student. But for others, it really is the actual work, itself. And so whatever it is, remember it and fall in love with it again because that's ultimately what's gonna keep you engaged and thriving in this profession.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:37]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:43]: Thanks so much, Joe. Glad to be back in the NASPA world. And this week, I wanna share a few policy updates that we've heard from our policy division at NASPA. Many of you may have heard that president Biden has issued another continuing resolution keeping the government funded through March. And so at this point, Congress has not reached a compromise to formalize a spending bill for the 2023 fiscal year. For the 2023 fiscal year, as funding expired at the end of September, the Department of Education held negotiated rulemaking sessions on federal Title IX program integrity, and institutional quality and trio eligibility in the month of January. During the subcommittee session on program funding funding involving funding connected to student meal plans and including books and supplies costs as a part of tuition and fees. Several members of the trio subcommittee expressed reservations about expanding eligibility for college prep trio programs to undocumented students due to tenuous political climate due to the tenuous political climate.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:58]: NASPA believes that extending trio programs to undocumented students is an important step in setting a federal precedent for equitable college access. The Office of Postsecondary Education is seeking comments from institutions on effective strategies for college student mental health and substance use and substance use disorders. This request includes how higher education institutions have transformed campus cultures with inclusive support strategies, how state agencies have supported behavioral health, identified challenges in implementing solutions, and information to guide future work of the Department of Education. Comments are due by February 25th. The Department of Education has also issued a request for information to assess sexual violence on campus. The RFI seeks responses on best practices for sexual assault prevention and response in education in educational institution in educational institutions. Topics include forming response teams, providing survivor resources, preventing and responding to sexual and dating violence, developing sex education and staff training programs, culturally responsive support approaches, engaging communities in prevention efforts and federal support of these initiatives. Comments are due by March 11th.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:18]: Finally, the Biden administration has highlighted key topical issues in relation to priorities for the 2024 presidential election year. Earlier this month marked the 51st the 51st anniversary of Roe v Wade in and the White House and the White House task force on reproductive health care access released a fact sheet on new actions to increase contraception care coverage. This includes a continued stance that the administration will support the FDA the FDA approval of medication abortion, which is currently which is under current scrutiny by the Supreme Court. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit, where do you wanna give back. Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:46]: I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that, Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association, and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:19]: Chris, we always appreciate you sharing what's going on in and around in NASPA. And, Anna, we have reached our lightning round, so I have 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. Are you ready to roll?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:33:30]: I'm ready.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:30]: Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:33:36]: Beyonce's new song.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:37]: Number 2. When you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:33:40]: A doctor.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:41]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:33:43]: Doris Ching.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:45]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:33:47]: Oh my gosh. It is Elizabeth Witt's The Tapestry, the Culture book that I can't remember the actual title, but love, love, love that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:55]: Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:33:58]: Oh my goodness. That is a good one. Is it awful to say Dexter?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:03]: Everyone had their thing. That was a that was a time in our lives. Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:34:11]: I think this one, actually. I did. I'm not a I have to say I'm not a podcast person, but I was like, I'm gonna listen to this one because this is my field.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:19]: We appreciate that. And then finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:34:24]: Oh, just saying hi to personal is my family. Thank you so much for your support. I appreciate you. And then my professional, my chosen NASPA family, you are all amazing. I love you all, and I can't wait to see you at all the future events conferences, including my speech when I take the gavel at NASPA in Seattle.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:42]: Anna, we know you're gonna have an incredibly busy year ahead, but if anyone in the membership would like to reach you personally, how can they find you?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:34:49]: Oh, sure. They can actually go into my social media, Instagram, AKGonzales 327, and also my email, anna.gonzales, with a z at the end, atwustl, w u s t l, dotedu.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:01]: Anna, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today. Thank you. This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices From the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at essay voices at NASPA .org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:34]: We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support support

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In this season of the SA Voices From The Field Podcast, we had the privilege of delving deep into the world of job placement and career development in higher education with D'Najah Thomas, a dynamic figure leading The Placement Exchange (TPE). Her insights reveal a holistic and innovative approach to connecting talent with opportunity in student affairs.

Transitions in Student Affairs: A Modern

Take It's no secret that the job market in higher education has undergone significant shifts, particularly with the advent of virtual platforms. Thomas brings a refreshing perspective to the conversation, emphasizing the need for psychological safety and well-being during the job search. As TPE adapts to an increasingly digital landscape, it prioritizes mental health by advocating for scheduled breaks and creating virtual lounges for decompression—a much-needed change welcomed by both candidates and employers.

The Crafting of TPE's Identity

Thomas's journey to the directorship at TPE wasn't a conventional one. With a background in marketing, public relations, and a stint in the non-profit sector, she found herself drawn to the world of student affairs through a combination of chance, economic circumstances, and personal choices—highlighting that a nonlinear career path can lead to fulfilling leadership roles.

Her diverse professional experience, enhanced by her empathy and commitment to supporting others, is now channeled into redefining TPE as a central hub for career development. She envisions TPE as a platform that not only facilitates job matching but also serves as a resource for continuous professional growth.

Empowering Job Seekers and Recruiters

Thomas is keen on equipping job seekers with tools for self-advocacy and proactive searching. TPE's year-round job board and the on-demand TPE Academy sessions affirm her resolve to meet modern job seekers where they are. Similarly, she encourages employers to highlight their values and culture authentically, showing that recruiting in student affairs must evolve beyond mere job advertising to a more strategic and narrative-driven approach.

Looking Ahead: A Future of Innovation and Inclusivity

With initiatives like TPE Talks addressing hot topics in employment and the WRAP Session focusing on diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility, TPE is broadening its impact beyond job placement. Thomas reimagines a future where TPE continually adapts to uphold a vibrant, healthy, and diverse workforce in student affairs.

Thomas's work with TPE exemplifies strategic transformation driven by understanding and meeting the needs of its community. The focus on accessibility, storytelling, and mental health showcases TPE's commitment to harmonizing candidate and employer expectations within an evolving digital world.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:53]: In this world, Inesha works directly and closely with a planning committee of professionals from across the field of higher education and student affairs to drive equitable and inclusive practice and innovation to deliver transformative networking communities, knowledge resources, job search, and recruiting experiences that cultivate and sustain a diverse and robust workforce in higher education. Before coming to TPE, D'Najah worked for 9 years in residence life and housing. Prior to that, she served as a marketing and communications practitioner in the nonprofit sector with Goodwill Industries of Southern Piedmont, The Florida Bar, and The Florida Psychological Association. D'Najah is past president of North Carolina Housing Officers or NCHO, and she also served in other leadership roles with NCHO and the Southeastern Association of Housing Officers or SEHO. She was a 2018 participant in NASPA's Mid Managers Institute and served as faculty for SEHO's 2021 regional entry institute or RELI. D'Najah also finished her term with a Kujo AI's 2021, 22 Leadership Academy cohort. A native of Charlotte, North Carolina, D'Naisha holds a master's of divinity from Duke Divinity School, a master of science in sport management from Florida State University, and a bachelor of science in public relations from Appalachian State University in Boone, North Carolina. Whether you are a candidate looking for a job this year or thinking about looking for a job this year or an employer who has an entry to mid senior level job to post, this episode, I hope, will be a wonderful resource for you so you can learn a little bit more about how the placement exchange process has grown and changed over time.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:27]: Don't miss this one. Hope you enjoy our conversation. D'Najah, welcome to SA Voices.

D'Najah Thomas [00:02:33]: Thank you for having me. I am excited to be here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:36]: I'm really thrilled to help you have you on the season at this moment in time, especially in our theme of transitions in your role at TPE, I think that you personally hold a lot of keys to success for people in the profession. And especially given the changes that are happening in TPE right now, it's a great time to talk about all of the things. But before we talk about all of the TPE things, I'd love to get to know you a little bit better because you've had some interesting transitions in your career as well from housing professional and, I believe, training as an attorney to the TPE space now. So tell us about you.

D'Najah Thomas [00:03:10]: I was an attorney. It's not quite that exciting, but I will tell you a little bit about what I've done before coming to TPE. My background is actually actually in marketing and public relations. So I did undergraduate work in North Carolina with great dreams of working for an NFL team. I thought that I would travel and do on-site communication and public relations. And so that led me to get a master's in sport management at Florida State University down in Tallahassee, Florida. And then that program was my 1st interaction with student athletes. And so while working on my degree, I worked with at risk student athletes in academic services.

D'Najah Thomas [00:03:45]: And I had the luxury of graduating in 2008, which if anyone can remember, was the recession. And so I humbly took my brand new master's degree home to North Carolina and started searching for a job. And so I spent a good bit of time volunteering while looking for work simply because my mom, as an educator, was of the background. You get stuck in your own head when you're looking for a job and you can get discouraged. And she suggested that I volunteer. And so I volunteered like it was a full time job and landed in non profit work, particularly crisis support services in North Carolina. And to be transparent, if you live in the South, particularly North Carolina, it is, still called the Bible Belt. It's deeply steep in religion, particularly working in crisis support.

D'Najah Thomas [00:04:27]: The questions were typically existential. How did this happen? Why could this happen to me? Oftentimes, how could a god be god allow this to happen to me? And in the course of serving people, I thought I will either get a master's in counseling or maybe a master's in divinity. And I chose the route of divinity school and so I landed at Duke University in Durham, North Carolina. And they mentioned this opportunity to be a graduate hall director while in the program. And so I thought anything that will help me save money on the cost of this degree is going to be a wonderful opportunity. And so I landed in residence life and housing as a grad hall director while working on my master's of divinity. And so during the 3 years that I spent at Duke, I realized that college students were amazing. They are complex.

D'Najah Thomas [00:05:09]: They have great demand. They are extremely diverse, and they were very much and are very much looking for a relationship, mentorship, and support. And so as a grad student, I found they liked me a little better than the professional coordinator because grad students are where they wanna be. They're gonna graduate and they wanna get master's and doctoral degrees. And so, residents and RAs alike would just hang out in my apartment. I would host programming for them, all while working on this master's of divinity. And my 3rd year in divinity school, a full time position opened. And I was eligible because I had the previous master's and so I did what I honestly would not recommend to anyone.

D'Najah Thomas [00:05:44]: I worked full time on that last year and stayed a full time student because I just didn't wanna pass up the opportunity to be able to get the position at Duke. And so that is how I landed full time in student affairs. I was a resident life coordinator at Duke University. And so stayed in Durham for about 5 years and moved on to Wake Forest as an assistant director, staying in residence life and housing. Had the joy working under doctor Kitty Ryu, who was a great leader and really believed in what we were trying to do in Residence Life and Housing. She's NASPA famous. She is NASPA famous and rightfully so. And so in my the 1st year and a half in my role, we actually did a full reorg in our department.

D'Najah Thomas [00:06:21]: We did not have full time residence hall coordinators. And so in the spring of 2019, we fully reorgued, went to TBE in LA, and bought on 7 new full time live in staff members, which was pretty important because halfway through their 1st year the pandemic happened. And we recognized that had we not had full time staff living in, there's just no way we would have survived supporting students, in the ways that we needed to. And so the next part I shared transparently because I think it matters with how I work with PPE and how I approach talking about career trajectory with people. I got pregnant and had a pre work for baby in the middle of the pandemic. And so, residence life and housing was very demanding at that time and work and life just were not meshing. And so, I had to start to look for other opportunities and very regrettably didn't wanna have to leave residence life and housing, but knew, you know, you have to make some life choices. And so the position with CPE opened up and I thought, gosh, this will be a wonderful opportunity to help meet our field at a place that was a point of crisis.

D'Najah Thomas [00:07:18]: Right? Trying to retain staff in the middle of the pandemic. Campuses were triaging vacancies everywhere. And it would give me the flexibility to think about what I needed to do to be a mom to a brand new baby. And so I applied, interviewed, and in about 6 weeks found myself in the role as Director of the Placement Exchange. And so I bring to the role a little bit of nonprofit work, a little bit of student athletics work, and a whole lot of housing and residents' life experience coupled with supervision, hiring, and retention.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:45]: That's an incredible journey, and especially to an organization like TPE where you can keep a lot of the skills you learned in your on campus experience by also bringing your nonprofit based experience. And I'm realizing now where I accidentally referenced an attorneyship, and it's because you were working with The Florida Bar as well as Florida Psychological Association. And so with all of those experiences kind of creating a melange of things for you, what is life like now given that you're serving professionals instead of students?

D'Najah Thomas [00:08:15]: Life is amazing. Part of my work with TPE has really helped me solidify what I work with candidates around, which is understanding your story, your values, and your overall professional goal. And so when I look back at my career, I think the thread that ties it all together is relationships and investing in the success of others. And so for a while, that was student athletes. Before that, that was in the sports arena, that transition to serving people in the nonprofit world, coming back to my students at Duke, and then becoming a supervisor, particularly being very invested in the career trajectory of those that I supervise. And so, now I find myself with TPE being able to concentrate and be less of a generalist, but to spend so much time thinking about how to support the goals and the career trajectory of both who are doing work that I love so much. And so now my days are are filled with understanding what's coming out of SHRM and coming out of corporate HR and following trends on our campus and in our field and thinking about how TPE can now, in essence, be a career hub for the profession. How can we say to practitioners that this is your career trajectory? PPE is where you can come to develop the skill, review this resource, engage in the support so that you can continue to be a knowledgeable and competent and competitive candidate? And on the other side of that coin is how can we say to employers recruiting, retention, and advancement of staff really is a free market.

D'Najah Thomas [00:09:42]: Meaning, they've got a set of skills and a salary they're looking for, and you now have to showcase how you are a place that people want to work at, and that the package you have to to offer is competitive. And so, how do you look at your efforts around recruiting, and interviewing, and hiring, and onboarding, and retaining staff, such that when you sit down with a candidate, you can say, This isn't just any assistant director role. The assistant director role on this campus is going to provide you with these opportunities, support you in this way such that you don't wanna walk away from this opportunity. So that is how everything I do is centered. How do we really equip these practitioners? And then how do we empower employers to see themselves as great places to work and be able to really share that with candidates in the process?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:24]: Now TPE is short for the placement exchange. I think it's its own living acronym. Now people just kinda know what it means if you've been in the field for a hot minute. But it's also a joint partnership of Akuhoai and NASPA and also serves as a hub for professionals who are not affiliated with either of those organizations as people search for student affairs in higher ed positions. What is the experience of a candidate today who's utilizing TPE?

D'Najah Thomas [00:10:52]: Sure. I hope that the profession as a whole. It experience even though we are serving the profession as a whole. It has expanded. We now have a job board that is 20 fourseven, three sixty five. So I hope people aren't up in the middle of night. You feel the urge at midnight, you can go to the job board and look for that next job. If you do that on the weekends or whatever that looks like for your schedule, it's available.

D'Najah Thomas [00:11:22]: And it's got the features that now allow you to upload your profile and resume at a level of comfort. So it can be fully visible by employers who are looking to hire. It can be one level down, which is what we call confidential, in that they can see the content of your resume, but not your identifying information. But if I were to message you as an employer and you choose to do so, you can then disclose who you are. Or it can be fully private, meaning it's there and as you see an employer that you may have interest in, you can share that resource with them. That's something that has been added on since what we've been known for. The once a year in person week of interviewing that happened the week before NASPA. So I appreciate now that we recognize, right, people are looking for a job 365 days a year.

D'Najah Thomas [00:12:02]: We cannot make people wait until March to get their next job. So being able to offer the job board with some customizable options for candidates is something that we're really proud of. The other thing that I'm really proud of for candidates, and I hope they would say they are appreciating, is how we've taken the TPE Academy and really tried to make it more accessible for the year round experience. So it used to be being a part of the academy was from November to March, it was much more like a mentorship experience and culminated being in person. Now we create the sessions on demand and candidates can go to the YouTube channel and access any one of those 6 sessions. Right? So again, at a time that works for you, whether it's October, February, or April, you can have access to those resources in a way that your lifestyle and fits your schedule. So again, just thinking about the things that used to be centered around that once a year experience and expanding those to be accessible anytime a candidate would need that. We still keep our Candidate Development Subcommittee and so we still offer those year round webinars.

D'Najah Thomas [00:13:00]: And what I appreciate about those sessions is they don't feel very stiff and structured. The content is there but our presenters and speakers are very engaging and the pace still allows for question and answer, learning opportunities, almost like a workshop. Like, we may pause you and have you do an activity, do some reflection, and engage. And so we are still trying to make sure that we serve on a larger scale to everyone who may need us, but not without having that personal experience and that interpersonal connection that we've been known for.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:30]: So the addition of the psychological safety piece, I think, is incredibly important from a candidate experience, especially knowing that there's a lot of reasons that someone might not be able to share with their current employer that they're looking or maybe they just don't want to. That's also fine. I also really appreciate the expansion of the academy and this on demand element because it really is meeting candidates where they're at in the modern era of search. So for those who are listening who may be newer in the profession, my 1st job experience job hunting experience in student affairs was at TPE in the year that ACPA and NASPA were last combined for a joint conference. That thing was bananas. I think I did 45 to 60 interviews in 3 days. I had a pair of extra tennis shoes in my bag. I had physical thank you notes with me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:21]: There were candidate physical Dropbox mailbox systems that were just organized but chaotic at the same time. And it was also a place where I feel like more of the candidates were like myself in their 1st or second job search, not necessarily in their mid or senior level spaces. And I believe that has shifted quite a lot in the last several years. So who's in the TPE now in terms of the level and type of position that candidates are looking at and employers are hiring for?

D'Najah Thomas [00:14:50]: Sure. You know, you shared a memory that just stuck with me. I was not at that particular one, but I remember being in San Antonio. And the way the my my boots. It was huge. And you have the candidate's a through m, n through z, and there were just hundreds and hundreds of people and hundreds of tables. And when we decided to go virtual, what you just shared is what we really listen to from candidates. I had a lot of listening sessions and I listened to people say I had 30, 40 interviews and, I was so stressed that an interview would go terrible and I didn't have time to, like, gather myself.

D'Najah Thomas [00:15:31]: And then it was a trickle down effect or I was at a table and I had a hard time focusing because the interview was right next to me or sitting in the waiting room and hearing people talk about their number of interviews and struggling with comparison. And I remember as an employer just reminding candidates, you don't need every job, you just need 1. And I remember pausing interviews and saying, I don't think you have the stamina to show up well, and we reschedule you. And so what I appreciate now about us being virtual is the ways in which we are advocating for protecting the schedule of both candidates and employers. So we do last the full week, but we offer block. Our schedule builds and breaks. It's virtual, so we can't regulate everyone. But we highly recommend that people take the lunch break, take the afternoon break, adhere to the block, pause and go to some of the round tables.

D'Najah Thomas [00:16:17]: And right now that we are virtual, you can go into a space. When an interview ends, don't book back to back. Give yourself a chance to go into a space, decompress, review that, drop into the candidate lounge, talk with 1 of the subcommittee members to just kind of help you have a better mental health experience through the process. And we actually do that for employers as well because we have to remember that people are away from their responsibilities on campus while doing these interviews. And I remind employers that they are being interviewed as much as they are interviewing candidates. And so you get distracted, you get fatigued. Some of these things that we are embedding because we are virtual are to help you show up, your best version as an employer, to the candidates who are giving you their time and trying to tell their story to you. And so I really do appreciate that the virtual space is allowing us to prioritize mental health, psychological safety, and well-being of everyone who's currently involved, for sure.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:12]: The experience of the employer shifting as well, I think, is a very big deal because I think, especially as younger professionals, our instinct at the beginning is, you know, my job is to show up and show out, and the employer's job is to judge me. At least that's how I felt in my first TPE. And now it's I think we're trying to do more to push more of a balance that it is a mutual understanding of if this is gonna be the right job match. From the employer side, what else is new or changing for them?

D'Najah Thomas [00:17:41]: Sure. From the employer side, a few things are new with the virtual experience. We really did listen to them 2 employers when they said, you know, it may be virtual, but we used to have reception. We wanna build that warm connection. If we can't physically touch or see other same spaces with candidates, how are they going to feel our full spirit, our vibe? We used to have swag. We used to fill mailboxes with all these things. And very lovingly, I said, there are ways that you do this now, but it has to actually be with the meat and the substance of who you are. And so you actually have to help candidates want to work for you because of the substance of what you offer, and you can do that.

D'Najah Thomas [00:18:20]: So my coaching conversations with employers now are a lot about, tell me about your team, tell me about your campuses, tell me about the affinity spaces and support that is available to your staff. Talk to me about your professional development opportunities. Because this generation of candidates is very interested clear pathways to advancement? What is their supervision and leadership going to be like? And so I said employers, your booth, it's the sims. So that part is still fun. Your booth is fully branded. You can hyperlink it to videos. You can show a day in the life of. You can showcase your campus and your teams in ways virtually that you actually couldn't do in person.

D'Najah Thomas [00:18:58]: You couldn't pick up your campus. Everybody just had the floor extensions with their brand on it. So now with your booth, you can use imagery, but you are linking to all of the resources and information that your campus has to offer in a very nicely branded way. But on top of that, your engagement with candidates is now about who you are, what you believe, what you value, and what the candidate experience will be. And so, in short, I'm finding that we are helping employers learn what it means to recruit, which is something other industries have been doing for some time, but I do think it's very new to student affairs. We knew that people were going to go to the graduate program. They were going to graduate, and they were going to need an entry point. And we just kind of knew that TBE would be that funnel.

D'Najah Thomas [00:19:41]: But we know that the pipeline into the profession now looks different. And so virtual really does allow us to still serve that pipeline but also expand. Like your earlier question was, who all the CPE serve now? I am excited to say that we serve the full profession. We really do stop before you kind of get to the executive search firm level. That's not our wheelhouse. But up to director level positions, they are there in terms of employers posting those positions and candidates that are currently in the candidate pool. And I say that very excitedly because we are really carving out supporting those who want to do a nationwide search. There are lots of regional groups and associations that can do in person placement.

D'Najah Thomas [00:20:16]: And I think that's wonderful. If you know you're gonna stay in the Northeast or the Southwest, and you can be at your conference and have that interview process, absolutely go for it. But if you know you're in California and you want to look at Illinois and Michigan and Virginia and Texas or a couple of different states and you don't want to break the bank as a candidate or if as an employer you want to cast the largest net as possible and you don't want to have to pick up and take a a team of 6 or 7 or 8 people, the virtual platform allows us to do that for everyone who wants to do it. Being virtual now lets us say that engaging in CPE is free for all candidates. That was a huge one. I just feel like it says something about an industry when you have to pay to get your job. We all want people to have to pay, let alone go into debt or use a credit card to get their next job. And so virtual allowed us to say, if you're looking for a job and you wanna meet some great employers, create a free candidate account, participate in the career fair, let our employers recruit you, and then in a few weeks, come back, have those interviews and hopefully find your next job.

D'Najah Thomas [00:21:23]: Same way we say to employers, if you are a community college or a small college a limited budget, you are on the same footing as the flagship institution for whatever state you're in. It's the substance that you have that puts you in front of candidates and allows you to say to them, we have something that you want, and we would love to have you be a part of our team.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:42]: I just wanna reiterate one thing that you said, which is that the placement exchange process as a candidate is free to you to use, which is such a critical point that wasn't always true. I believe I registered for a fee when I originally went through many years ago. It wasn't high if I recall, but, you know, it's still a fee. So I really appreciate that that is a major positive change for candidates. So if you're looking for a position this year, please register with TPE. It's totally free for you. Now if I'm an employer, let's talk about how much it might cost my institution.

D'Najah Thomas [00:22:16]: Again, I can say it's probably going to cost you less than you ever remember. Like, full transparency, when I went to LA in 2019, we were in the 1,000 of dollars to have our booth, take our staff, to pack up all the slack, to stay in the hotel. Employer booths are only $475, And that is to keep it comparable with the actual technology that we use for the platform. And so in that employer booth, you can have up to six recruiter seats and each recruiter can run their own schedule. So if anybody remembers CPE in person, it was a table and you often ran 2 interviewers per table. And some employers ran 2 tables. You can do that with 6 recruiters and 1 booth. So you can have up to 6 interviews if they're individuals or 3 interviews if you run them in pairs for 475.

D'Najah Thomas [00:23:04]: We are not in the business of trying to to bankrupt anyone. We actually want to make it as accessible as possible for our job seekers and our employers because that is how the field wins. When we can bring the largest pool of talent together and the largest pool of hiring employers together, I believe that both sides will be presented with option and possibility and increase the likelihood that we make really strong career matches across the field.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:30]: I love that. That's amazing.

D'Najah Thomas [00:23:31]: It makes me smile. So I'm glad it makes you smile.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:34]: Absolutely. So as we look forward then, there's already been, I believe, at least 1, if not 2, virtual events that have happened this year. There's another couple major ones coming back up, including one that will be concurrent with the NASPA annual conference. So this episode should be airing right before the conference begins. If I haven't registered for TPE yet, but I want to, what do I do now?

D'Najah Thomas [00:23:58]: All you have to do is go to our website, which has not changed. We're never gonna change that web address. It is www.theplacementexchange.org. You will see virtual placement highlighted on our web page. Click that live green button, register, and join us. Registration takes about 30 minutes. Setting up your booth only takes 30 minutes. I did it just to be sure I was being truthful when I tell an employer anyone can do it, anyone can do it, and then you have full access to to our registered candidates and the ability to participate in placement.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:30]: You mentioned value congruence as probably one of the number one things that this generation of job seekers needs in their employer. How are you seeing employers demonstrate their values in a way that is really digestible for candidates?

D'Najah Thomas [00:24:43]: I think, again, it starts with us introducing career fairs. We really wanted there to be something between I see a job on a site, I do my own kind of investigative research, and I hope they interview. I believe in the power of storytelling and human interaction. And so us since starting the career fair before placement has really been a great place for employers to do that. So there's what I see on your booth in terms of your printed materials about your your campus. I am now clicking to have a conversation with a recruiter and we are really working on helping candidates understand the questions to ask and the follow-up questions to ask. Ask. And so it is developing those conversational skills to engage in active recruiting.

D'Najah Thomas [00:25:23]: And so I may say, you know, I read these are the values of your institution. An employer may say, yes. We value creativity, exploration, leadership, and service. Now in our in our recruiting chat, I can say, well, tell me a little more about how the value of service is played out on your campus. Often times employers are gonna talk about the student experience. And I say, as a candidate, when you listen, tell me what it is you're really wanting to hear and how do you have the question to get to that answer. So we kind of walk through scenarios and then the oh, they talked about the student experience. Well, they that sounded wonderful for students.

D'Najah Thomas [00:25:56]: Can you tell me a little bit more about how this value, is experienced or plays out for your staff?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:02]: Mhmm. Mhmm.

D'Najah Thomas [00:26:03]: So it's just keeping the art of engagement. And we do the same with employers because this is new to engage in recruiting as well. So we talk about when you when you choose recruiters, you want to choose people who, a, understand the values, the mission, the vision of your university, who can talk about their own experience with them to showcase that congruence. And I recommend you collect stories of your colleagues, of your team, of your peers that can validate that or affirm that. I also talk to my employers about transparency to say these things are so aspirational and here's where we are in working towards this. I think this is a wonderful generation of candidates that appreciate the honesty and the transparency. So even if you tell me you're not there yet, if you can tell me how you're working towards it, I'm gonna appreciate that you didn't tell me a lie.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:50]: Yeah. For sure.

D'Najah Thomas [00:26:50]: That you have that awareness, and I have an understanding of how you're still trying to get there. And so it's not a ding to you as an employer if you haven't hit everything inspirationally. It's your ability in preparation to talk about how you're working towards it and what you have in place to bridge that gap if you're not there yet.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:08]: Let's talk a little bit about the numbers. How many candidates and employers and jobs are in the TPE portal at any one given time and particularly during high season of hiring?

D'Najah Thomas [00:27:19]: Sure. At any given time, we average between two 50 and 375 for jobs monthly. And so I give the average because we have new jobs posted. We offer 30, 60, 90 day postings. So we're in that 2 to 300 range on average per month. We currently have about 380 candidate resumes on the job board. That's the year round component. And we have about 600 employers who are in our system.

D'Najah Thomas [00:27:45]: They may not be currently posting at the time, but they have posted in the past calendar year. Those numbers are continuing to grow as we continue to, a, inform people that we have a job work because a lot of people still just know us at the event. So as we continue to tell that story, those numbers increase. I am excited with placement that we are seeing numbers to start to increase to what they used to be. I told you the background in PR and marketing comes in hand. It helps me develop patients. Our field loves the things that have been a part of our journey, And we know that change is a process. And so replacement, our candidate numbers are are very quickly getting to what we are familiar with, closer to 300, 400 candidates.

D'Najah Thomas [00:28:22]: Our employers are slow to adopt. And so our hope is as we continue to grow and employers continue to have that positive experience, a, that their testimonial, their validation, and their word-of-mouth will help. We are also marketing though, making sure employers know our candidates are getting it. We're getting up to 300 plus candidates almost to 4. And so right now, we actually are almost a 100 registered employers, which means there's almost a 100 positions. So it's a position per employer that they're being hired for. And they are from early career to senior, mid level, or senior level positions. And so I am just telling employers, you are looking for the candidate.

D'Najah Thomas [00:28:56]: I can tell you where they are. They are leaning into technology. They are leaning into equitable access. They are leaning into spaces that fit better with their time and their schedule to look for a job. And so we are pacing it year by year to help employers see that we've heard what they were looking for from the in person experience, and we can't copy and paste, but we can find ways that technology allows us to reach that goal.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:17]: I always say that transition and change always takes at least 3 years in higher education. 1 year to formulate and push the change out, the 2nd year to work out the issues or the kinks with it, and the 3rd year to let it fly and see if it actually works. It's because our profession is so cyclical. The hiring quote unquote season in higher ed really only happens once a year en masse, but it is it is all year round. But you're not gonna see if the impact is is what you're hoping for for a while, and that's just true for anything in higher ed, I think. So I'm hoping that our show and featuring TPE can help others discover you again.

D'Najah Thomas [00:29:53]: Well, I appreciate that very much. This role as a former practitioner on the campus has helped me lean into we talk about redefining success. We easily say it, and then you have experiences that require you to live that amount. Up. Rebranding and restructuring CVE has really challenged me, and I've embraced what it means to redefine success. And so right now, redefining success is not the highest registration numbers. It is listening to those who were leaning into this process, say that it worked and they experienced an improved week going through the process in this way, hearing people say, oh, this felt very innovative, or this was engaging, or this was fun. Words that we used to hear from the in person experience to now hear them in the virtual experience lets me know that we're headed in the right direction.

D'Najah Thomas [00:30:34]: So I'm very much leaning into the feedback from our participants to make sure that we are hitting the mark with what equals a quality experience for them. And I believe that as more people have the quality experience, the numbers will do what they need to do.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:47]: Well, I think the number one thing that virtual space creates is accessibility. Right? And that's accessibility in a lot of different ways. But when I was, working as an AVPDOS at a large public university, you know, it made the TBE process possible for us because we couldn't afford to send 7, 8, 9 recruiters to the experience. But we could say, okay. Let's pay 1 fee, and we can post our hall director positions. We can post some assistant director positions, and we can try to find our people, this way. So I think that's that's all good stuff. What other transitions and developments have come about for TPE that you want our listeners to know about?

D'Najah Thomas [00:31:25]: Sure. I think the the next big piece is what's happening in terms of programming and in the social media space. So we are about placement. We absolutely want people to connect employer to employee and find those jobs and make those hires. But again, as we think about being a career resource, it also means creating space to talk about and address the factors that impact our ability to retain staff and advance staff in the field. And there are some very role factors that we have to think about broadly if we're going to get the talent and keep the talent. And so, a big thing that I'm proud of is called TBE Talks. It's from our 2 planning committee chairs.

D'Najah Thomas [00:32:00]: Every last Friday of the month, they get on the TPE Instagram live account and they talk about hot topics. So anything that is making someone think about, I don't wanna do this job anymore or what's driving my search for the next job, they talk about it. And I don't hang out in that space because I really wanted to be a free space for peer to peer conversation and engagement, and those conversations have been wonderful. The 2nd piece that will launch in March that I am extremely excited about is the one that I get to host. They're called TPE WRAP Session. And the sole subject of those conversations is around diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility, and how that is impacting our ability to recruit, retain, and advance practitioners. And so each month, I'll have a guest join me to have that conversation. And so it varies.

D'Najah Thomas [00:32:46]: My first guest is going to be someone who was the director of HR and DEI for a West Coast campus. And so for people to be able to hear how campuses are doing this work, get some ideas, ask them questions, and then I'll talk to some practitioners about their journey and their experience in the field. But I really want us to create spaces to just talk about the importance of accessibility, the importance of DEI, and how that's impacting the talent in our field, whether they're staying or going, moving up, or whatever that looks like. I think there's no harm in having a space to really have that niche conversation. So those are 2 big things coming up that I'm really excited about is offering to the field.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:25]: And repeat for us how people can listen into those dialogues?

D'Najah Thomas [00:33:29]: Sure. If you want to listen in to TPE Talks, you can go to the TPE Instagram account on Fridays at 2 pm and join them live. If you want to join us for the wrap sessions, they happen the last Thursday of each month. And again, our website is magic. You go to our website and go to events. You'll find the link to join those when we are live on those last Thursdays of the month.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:53]: Any final thoughts on TPE's evolution from you,

D'Najah Thomas [00:34:02]: 3rd year in the role, and this is the 3rd iteration of TPE in a virtual space is what you really alluded to. Right? We were really trying to fine tune what it means. And although it's a 3rd iteration, what I would say to the field is it's just an indicator that we're listening and that we are committed to refining it until we create what it is the field needs. And so I am excited for TPE to continue to evolve, to be a career hub for our field because I think that is the way forward for making sure that we can sustain our workforce. And not just have those bodies in seats, but make sure that our workforce is fulfilled and healthy and vibrant and able to have the creativity and the flexibility to do the work that they need to do.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:43]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:50]: Thanks so much, Jill. Glad to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a lot going on in NASPA as we prepare for the 2024 annual conference. One of the things that I wanted to talk about because we're talking about the placement exchange today is that there are opportunities within the placement exchange for your organizations to be able to find those employees that you need. Many of you may either be looking for jobs or may be looking for individuals to fill positions. And TPE, or the Placement Exchange, is the largest career placement resource in student affairs for over the last 15 years. TPE is committed to helping employers and job seekers in our industry find each other and build our community one great job at a time. The methods and practices for job searching and hiring continue to evolve, and TPE is also working, as we've been hearing about, diligently to deliver the best in technology and innovation as well as accessibility, affordability, and dependability when it comes to recruiting and retaining talented professionals in student affairs. I know you've been hearing about it a lot today, but I'm going to plug it again.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:03]: To go to the placementexchange.org to find out more information. Another great opportunity for you to explore is a new partnership that is called the Program Review Collaborative. This was developed in collaboration with organizations such as the Association of Colleges and University Housing Officers International, the Association of College Unions International, NASPA, and the National Intramural Recreational Sports Association. The PRC is a new joint venture aimed at enriching departmental reviews through the guidance of seasoned experts. These associations bring together a wealth of knowledge, resources, and a unified commitment to advancing the work of campus of campus professionals and institutions alike. PRC reviews focus on appraising the strengths and opportunities of a department with particular emphasis on staffing, administrative processes, programmatic offerings, student engagement mechanisms, and collaborative ventures within the broader campus community. Find out more at program reviewcollaborative.org. Finally, thank you to everyone who voted in the annual NASPA leadership elections, which closed on February 8th.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:19]: We are thrilled to announce the following results with each position following the NASPA board of directors for the terms noted. The board chair elect is Michael Christakis, vice president for student affairs at the University of Albany, the region 2 director, Chaunte Hill, vice president for student life athletics and campus services at St. Joseph's University, region four east director, Juan Guardia, assistant vice president for student affairs and dean of students at the University of Cincinnati, and region 5 director, Carnell McDonald Black, vice president for student life at Reed College. Congratulations to all of these new leaders that are going to be leading NASPA into the future. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit, where do you wanna give back.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:40]: Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey. I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association, and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:27]: Chris, as always, you just do such a wonderful job with keeping us updated on what's going on in and around NASPA. Thank you for all you do with our NASPA World segment. Denasia, we've reached our lightning round. I have 7 questions for you in 90 seconds. Ready to start the clock?

D'Najah Thomas [00:39:43]: I'm ready.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:44]: Alright. Number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

D'Najah Thomas [00:39:49]: It would be Beyonce's I Been On. It's such a fierce song, and it reminds me to know that my track record is pretty good, and I don't need to be nervous about what I'm about to do.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:00]: Number 2. When you were 5 years old, what would did you want to be when you grew up?

D'Najah Thomas [00:40:04]: I wanted to be a bank teller because they always handed out lollipops when I went with my parents to the bank.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:10]: Number 3. Who's your most influential professional mentor?

D'Najah Thomas [00:40:13]: My most influential professional mentor would be doctor Stephanie Carter Atkins. He is the embodiment of servant leadership, and she taught me extreme patience as a supervisor.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:24]: Number 4. Your essential student affairs or career read.

D'Najah Thomas [00:40:27]: Oh, my essential read would be Dare to Lead by Brene Brown. It leads me into some vulnerability that I had to really work through to offer to my staff, but was transformational.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:38]: Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic.

D'Najah Thomas [00:40:41]: During the pandemic, there wasn't a lot of TV because there was a kid in the house. But I would say that My Guilty Pleasure was The Real House 5 series. You could pick 1. They were always on A&E. So yeah.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:53]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

D'Najah Thomas [00:40:57]: Harvard Business Review.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:58]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

D'Najah Thomas [00:41:03]: I would love to give a shout out to my partner who is also in higher ed and helps me find a way to navigate both of us reaching the goals that we have. I definitely wanna give a shout out to black women who are doing this work. They are my sisterhood. They are my network, and they are my support. And I am always here for empowering them. And then lastly, I have to give a shout out to my TPE planning committee, both current and past. TPE, when I say we, it's just me. And so without my planning committee, I would not be able to do what I get done.

D'Najah Thomas [00:41:32]: They continue to be a dream team, and I love them dearly.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:35]: Denasia, it has been a pleasure to have you on SA Voices and get to know more about how TPE has been changing and evolving to meet the needs of the modern candidate and the modern employer as well. If folks would like to reach you or TPE, how can they find you?

D'Najah Thomas [00:41:50]: Sure. If they would like to reach me or TPE, they can come to the TPE website. Again, it's www .theplacementexchange.org. You can click about us and get in touch with myself or our general email account. You can also follow TPE on Instagram, Facebook, or LinkedIn. If you put in the placement exchange on all 3, we will pop up. There's no competitors. You'll definitely land at us, and I do my best to get back to people as quickly as I can.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:17]: Thank you so much for sharing your voice and the new story of TPE with us today.

D'Najah Thomas [00:42:22]: Thank you so much for having me. It's been a wonderful conversation.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:28]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices From the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at essay voices at NASPA dot org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:09]: This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

View Details

Embracing change and adaptability has been a focal point in the latest episode of 'Student Affairs Voices From the Field.' Host Dr. Jill Creighton sits down with Dr. Denny Roberts, who has beautifully woven his international experiences into the fabric of student affairs. In this blog, I delve into the highlights of their conversation and explore how Dr. Roberts' insights can inspire and guide student affairs professionals in their practice.

Understanding Diversity Beyond Borders

One compelling topic from the episode was the discussion around diversity in Qatar versus the U.S. Dr. Roberts and Dr. Creighton highlight that when working internationally, one must redefine what diversity, equity, and inclusion mean within the context of their environment. Dr. Roberts emphasizes the importance of cultural understanding in fostering engagement in highly diverse student populations. This urges professionals to prioritize intentional efforts and practice humility to make substantial connections across varied cultural landscapes.

Fostering Multicultural Engagement

The challenges that Dr. Roberts faced in Qatar's Education City showcase the complexity of creating universal student experiences without imposing one's cultural norms and expectations. He underscores the necessity of professional development and immersion to truly engage with the local culture. The emphasis is on the importance of educators obtaining a deep understanding of the cultures they serve, which is crucial in respecting the choices and experiences of international students.

Transitions, Writing, and Contributions

Dr. Roberts' journey through various career and geographic transitions sheds light on his decision to step into consultancy. This choice was driven by a desire to maintain personal freedom and a passion for writing—something he has continued with zeal post-retirement. His contributions in philosophy, history, leadership, and internationalization highlight the valuable interplay between practice experience and scholarly activity in student affairs.

Multipotentiality and Identity

An intriguing element of Dr. Roberts' narrative is the idea of being a 'multipotentialite.' He describes the traits—idea synthesis, rapid learning, and adaptability—which mirror his approach to student affairs and consultancy. This concept adds another dimension to understanding professional identities within the field and encourages embracing one's diverse skill set.

Reverse Culture Shock and Moving Forward

Dr. Roberts' return to America after living abroad opened a discussion on reverse culture shock. His advice for professionals seeking international experience is thoughtful and grounded in choosing deep, reflective opportunities over perfunctory resume enhancements. His message: be transformed by your experiences and seek an environment that respects and enhances your growth.

Conclusion

Dr. Denny Roberts' experiences and insights provide a compelling narrative for those in student affairs. They encourage educators to be adaptable, culturally sensitive, and intentional—a lesson in how one's experiences can shape not just personal growth, but also professional practice in diverse environments. Ultimately, his journey teaches us that transitions can be an avenue for development, inspiring new approaches to leadership and inclusion in the field of student affairs.

TRANSCRIPT

Dennis C. Roberts is an independent consultant, speaker, and author. He last served as Assistant Vice President of Education for Qatar Foundation. During his seven years with QF he worked with Qatari and expatriate colleagues to create the student development and support services for its branch universities at Education City in Doha, Qatar. Prior to working abroad, he was Associate Vice President of Student Affairs at Miami University. He is past president of ACPA-College Student Educators international, and has been a member and presenter at the National Association of Student Personnel Administrators and the International Leadership Association throughout his career. He has authored 6 books and over 50 book chapters and other articles on student affairs, student learning, leadership, and internationalization. Denny, welcome to SA Voices.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:00:25]: Delighted to be with you today, Jill. This is awesome.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:27]: It is such a thrill to be able to speak to you in our theme of transitions this season. You have had quite a few career transitions, both in your identity as a professional, but also in your physical location. And in our preshow chat, I also got to know you and I share a lot of transitions in common, so I'm excited to dig into those. But I always like to get started with a question of how you got to your current seat, and your current seat is consultancy, which I know a lot of student affairs professionals kind of weave in and out of or move through after a VPSA position.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:01:01]: It is kind of an interesting transition because I had done Consulting before, you know, when I was full time employed and that kind of thing. And when I decided that it was time to return to the US from Being located in Qatar, I kinda struggled. Do I wanna continue to work full time and therefore take another job at the US or do I want to do something else? And a variety of circumstances, both personal and professional, caused me to think, you know, I really am kinda tired of going to the office every day and having somebody else tell me to do is. So I thought, maybe I can make this consulting thing work. And I also had just a gob of Ideas in my head. And I've written, you know, quite a bit during my career, but there was just this whole backlog of ideas That came to me from working abroad, and I thought, you know, if I'm tied to go to the office every day, I'm not gonna get these things Done. And what's really been fabulous is my writing has actually accelerated in retirement. I don't know if that will continue or not, but it's been terrific.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:02:04]: And I've had so much fun writing with younger colleagues who have fresh eyes, with international colleagues To have a totally different perspective. And the character of my writing has really, I think, Changed in this post kind of and I like to call it semi retirement because I can't give up. Right? So I really have not adopted an identity of being retired. I'm still very actively involved, so it was a real decision, personal and professional, that I just wanted more freedom. And fortunately enough, I was very blessed with having had a career that gave me enough economic needs to say that I didn't need that monthly salary. And that's a tough decision To make 2 in terms of how much is enough. Anybody that is facing the potential of retirement, you have to kind of gauge, like, what what's What's the lifestyle I wanna have? And I decided that what we had was very much something that would allow us stability, allow us time to do what we want. My wife was retired at that point already as well, and we decided to move to Chicago to be close to our grandkids.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:03:08]: So, that was all a part of the scenario about How I got to the, current semi retirement status that I'm in.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:16]: You've been quite a prolific author and student affairs is with over 60 journal articles and peer reviewed journals. I believe you've either edited or, coedited. Is it 6 books as well?

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:03:27]: That's correct. Yeah.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:28]: So with all of that, how has your voice as an author evolved from your very first publication through when you kind of felt like you were churning a burden and now?

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:03:37]: When I first Started writing, and I was extremely fortunate to have matured in 2 settings that were very, very influential for me. One was Colorado State University, and the other was University of Maryland. Both of them and I was a 1st generation college student, so I was kind of clueless about what the academic world really was all about But I had some really good coaches in the early days who urged me. They said, If you wanna be in student affairs, you need to also contribute Intellectually, you can't just be a practitioner. So I had role models at both institutions that urged me to start writing. And the early pieces that I did, I mean, one was I got involved in the whole issue about the age change for alcohol On college campuses, and so 18 to 21? Correct. Yeah. And I stood in opposition to that, Which was kind of an unusual position to take at the time.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:04:34]: And so that was kind of an opportunist publication, but not one that is deep in my heart. So After that, I started working more to just write about things that I really cared about, and that I felt like I had really learned something, And then I had something to offer, which is really very different than what a faculty member experiences. And even though I've Taught both at the graduate and undergraduate levels. I was never driven by tenure and promotion to write certain sorts of things That get into the literature in a specific sort of way. So I were really informed by my practice Experiences throughout my life. So, you know, if I was struggling with a particular issue at a certain time, then I tended to use writing as kind of almost my public Journal, this is what I'm thinking. And I don't know frankly, when you write, you never know who's gonna Be touched by an article that you write, and it's kind of a mystery to me in terms of who does read things that I write. But I Have had feedback from some of my articles or chapters that my narrative style speaking from personal experience, That reflection has been helpful for other people, and I think that is a different kind of writing than sometimes you would see in a typical kind of Tenure track publication driven, you know, kind of an environment.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:05:54]: So my publications for the early start was kinda just but then it became much more purposeful and more deeply reflective as I've gone on. And the areas I've published in that I'm most proud of are kind of student affairs, Philosophy and history, leadership, and then internationalization. Those are the 3 areas that I've most enjoyed, and I hope that the contribution I've made there has Made some difference to shed some light on those topics.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:20]: Am I hearing you as maybe an early adopter of autoethnography as a research style?

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:06:25]: Probably. And I wasn't even aware That as a style. I had no idea that that's what I was doing, but yeah, that really is kind of where I'm coming from.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:33]: I think my qualitative professor might be mad that I just called it a would want me instead to call it a methodology.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:06:40]: Yeah, exactly. Yep. Yep.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:41]: Well, Denny, you also have had a prolific as a campus based professional and then transitioned off of a campus. So why don't we talk about that? You were at University of Miami. Is that Miami, Florida or Miami of Ohio?

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:06:54]: No. It's Miami University of Ohio.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:56]: I apologize to the state of Ohio.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:06:58]: You have to flip The words there. So yeah. But Miami University in Ohio is where I was.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:02]: And you had, what I understand to be a fairly traditional rise in student affairs going from junior roles to mid roles and finally to that VPSA role. What was the state of the field when you determined it was time to go overseas?

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:07:14]: Well, the idea of going overseas Cheese was really kind of planted through a previous experience at Miami, and the Miami, and you'll be very interested in this as a person interested To the study abroad, they have a bubble program in Difertaj, Luxembourg. And I heard about their invitation for visiting scholars, which were typically Play usually faculty that would do those roles. Well, I applied for it even though I was an administrator and I got it. And so I got to spend a semester in Luxembourg, and then during that time I taught and mentored students, and then I also wrote Actually, one of my books, which is deeper learning and leadership, which came out in 2007. So I worked very, very hard every week, And I had a Eurail pass, and so if I met my writing objectives, then on Friday morning, I hit Eurail. And I would go someplace. Well, guess how many writing deadlines I missed?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:10]: All of them? None of them.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:08:13]: 0. I missed none of them. So every weekend I went someplace you know so I'd go to paris I'd go to berlin I'd go to fiena I would We'd go all over Europe on my Eurail pass because it didn't cost me a thing. And every place I would go, I would land, and I'd find a cheap place to stay, and I would start walking the city. You know, that's what I would do every weekend. And so that just exploded my idea about what it's like To be in other cultures and to learn from other places and to be respectful and attentive to the differences from myself as an American versus all the other worlds. And that happened in 2005. And then I just kind of ruminated for a while about, well, what was that all about? And Finished the book, got it published, all that kind of thing.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:08:59]: And then Qatar came to me just out of the blue, and I had not applied, but they came to me and invited me to apply For what was a newly created possession, which was the role was to coordinate student services and development activities across the 8 branch Universities that they had then attracted to, the Education City campus in Doha, Qatar. And simultaneous to this, which is just A very, very strange, fortuitous sort of thing is that my daughter, Darby, was graduating from Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, And they invited her to go to their Carnegie Mellon branch program in Qatar. So Darby accepted the position first. They came to me subsequently. My immediate reaction when I was invited was I asked Darby. I said, Darby, this is crazy. I mean, your father's gonna follow you halfway around the world in your 1st job. I mean, Can you deal with this? Would this be okay? And she said, oh, of course, dad.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:10:00]: No problem at all. So I applied and they hired me and then I went over and that was in the fall of two And I went over for what was supposed to have been a 3 year contract, which was then successively extended to 6, And then extended to 7. And then finally, after 7th year, I said, I really need to go back, and I need to be with my family. Unfortunately, my My wife was not able to go over and live with me over there even though she came over on a quarterly basis, and we talked every day. But that's one of the challenges of expat work Yes. That always get to take your family with you, and that's not always convenient. And so you have to kinda figure out how that's gonna work. So that was a huge transition Culturally, professionally, personally, I mean that was the real kind of just crazy paradigm change for me when I went to Qatar.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:52]: So I grew up in the Middle East a little bit. I had my earliest years in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, and it's a very different cultural space. I also have spent some time in the UAE and then have good colleagues in the Levant region, as well as, you know, just kind of all around the GCC or the Gulf Coast region. On the show last season, we had a good colleague from Kuwait and then also in the season prior, colleagues from Qatar as well and from Kuwait. And we hear that the the needs of students are just extremely different. For those who are not familiar with Education City. As Denny mentioned, there are more than 8 now branch campuses in Education City in Qatar. I believe it's more than 8 now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:32]: And they have attracted or kind of what I would call joint venture opportunities, really, where students from the local region are coming in earning degrees with university names that a US audience are probably a little more familiar with. But it's not as if you can just transplant all of these Americanized ideals into this environment where the value system is extremely different. So how did you adapt what you knew and what you had been practicing and researching to this environment that you didn't know at all.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:12:02]: The Qatar Education City campus, it does have just 8 universities. And, well, 6 are American universities, one is European, And then there's their homegrown graduate school, which is called Hamid bin Khalifa University. So it's the 8 institutions and they They are not joint degrees. They are in the local environment. What's fascinating about what they've been able to do in Qatar is that the degree requirements Are exactly the same as the home campus. So if you get a degree from Carnegie Mellon in computer science, The curriculum is identical. And if it's Texas A&M engineering curriculum, identical. So and actually, the degree is granted from the home Campus rather than it being there as a local in Qatar, you know, kind of a degree.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:47]: So it looks exactly the same when you're done.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:12:50]: Exactly. And so, You know, part of what the goal was was to replicate the student learning experience between the US Or European, and then the Qatar example. What's interesting about that is that student affairs is very much a part of Most institutional cultures in the US. And for the most part, the colleagues that I worked with in Qatar, particularly those that were Country or were GCC Air World colleagues, they had no idea of what student affairs was about. Even for those that studied in the US, there's a tendency, at least among the colleagues with whom I interacted, there's a tendency for them to Not engage in the same sorts of ways when they're in the US. So I had lots of colleagues that went to US institutions That didn't even know there was such a thing as a student affairs division, and what value did that bring, and that kind of thing. So a major major part of what I Did there was to raise awareness of what student affairs was as a historical and philosophical and research based Commitment.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:13:56]: And that I have to say, worked in some examples, and I'm thrilled that it stuck. In other examples, that never really did take, and I think that that's really something that international student affairs educators have to face. Some of it's gonna stick, Some of it isn't, and some of that is because of the differences in culture. And I'm sure you know from your Riyadh experience and UAE experience, I mean, the background that a student brings to the learning environment very clearly impacts the way that they're going to engage, and that relates to Everything from deference to authority, to gender roles, to freedom of thought and expression. I mean, there's just all sorts of things. And what's really interesting is to try to contextualize the values that student affairs can bring to another culture, But not do it in a way that judges other people's way of being. I learned so much from some of the students, for instance, that came from Pakistan, or from India, or from North African countries, where the environment of their expressing their views And actively engaging would have been politically dangerous. And as educators, even though I value democratic Education and full engagement, I had to understand that I was potentially educating a student with a tool that could be dangerous for them In terms of personal or professional welfare.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:15:30]: It's a really interesting tension, and that doesn't mean abandon the values and the purpose that we have as student affairs educators, but it does mean you need to understand the cultural differences, and you need to respect the choices that students have to make that might be different than what you would find in a US kind of a setting. Did you find that in your in your work in the UAE and Saudi Arabia?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:55]: Well, I was only in the UAE for a hot second, and, it was really as a visitor when I was working for NYU in the past. But I think my most relatable experiences as a CSAO in in China for a couple of years, and that institution had students from 70 countries.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:16:11]: Yeah. Well, we had a 100 in in In Qatar.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:14]: So when you have that level of diversity, it's just very different than what diversity is conceptualized as in the United States.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:16:22]: Correct.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:22]: And then even in my mind, what what the priorities are and diversification are different. And the way that we talk about inclusion and access in the US is actually quite ethnocentric to the US, and I don't think that we acknowledge that all the time.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:16:36]: Amen. Amen. I mean, no, I mean, that's a really distinction, and I think that the focus on diversity, equity, and inclusion is very important to in the US, and translating that in an international All setting is very appropriate. However, the way that you define it and what you understand to be diversity needs To be conceptualized in a different sort of way.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:58]: Well, absolutely. And the campus I was on had about 60% students from China mainland and then 40% students from the rest of the world. And and so when we look at that, it was also all of a sudden your majority identity is not students who come from privileged backgrounds from a majority ethnic white background. It's Han Chinese all of a sudden, and so then the world shifts in terms of what you understand. And so that was just quite a part quite an interesting part of my experience and a huge transition for me in the way I conceptualize things. I'm wondering for you then, Denny, if You could talk about what's the number one thing you found in terms of a universal experience amongst students in a setting that diverse.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:17:39]: Well, Certainly, their interaction with each other was very, very powerful, and this was actually one of the things that I advocated Very, very strongly. Some of the branch programs tended to want to kinda develop their own identity of their own students kinda within the bubble. So The Northwestern students would hang together. The Georgetown students would hang together, etcetera. And that kinda happened naturally because each of them had a separate building. But while I was there, We built a student center that was a shared space, and so the shared space was supposed to bring everybody together and It was just overwhelming. Students just loved it. You know, we had the bowling alley and the sports complex, and we had the Convenience shopping, and we had meeting rooms, we had a theater, we had an art gallery.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:18:29]: I mean, we had all of that that then Brought people together. And we eventually built residence halls as well. And the residence halls again, you know, it was not clustered by your academic experience, but it was mixed up In terms of both your academic experience and your cultural experience. So it was very very clear that our Students there and you would hear different languages, different styles of dress, all of that all the time. And I assume that you've observed the same sort of thing. So diversity of thought and culture and background is ubiquitous. That is the experience. And what's interesting about it Is though and we actually conducted the national survey of student engagement of the students over there to see what the real impact Was and while the opportunity for exposure across culture was clearly there as a Ubiquitous experience, engaging in it was a different matter.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:19:25]: And if you look at US experience too, just that diversity is on the Campus doesn't guarantee that there is multicultural engagement. There has to be intentional effort to make it happen. There has to be willingness. There has to be respect and humility. You have to have all of those things, and that was a startling realization In terms of just because you have students from a 100 countries doesn't mean that you're going to have a multicultural experience. You have to work at it. And this is something that student affairs really is so strong in in comparison to other academic areas and so forth. But again, as we're saying, It can't be replicated right straight from the US.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:20:05]: The principles of it, the philosophy of it, I think can be transferred, but how you do it has to be different.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:11]: One other thing that I always try to conceptualize is how do I help lead a team to create a universal student experience without kind of engaging in colonialism is the best way I can put it. And that's so tough. Right? Because my training, my education, and my experiences are primarily US based. And so as we look at you know, we are privileged people to be able to live and work in another country. We are also being asked to be there because of the knowledge base that we bring and also trying to figure out how to do that in culturally appreciative ways of the environment that we're in. So can you talk about maybe a practice or some sort of departmental shift that you had to make to really engage the cultural elements of where you were compared to what you knew.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:20:56]: I used some of the tools that I had used previously in my career. So particularly because There was really not a base of understanding student affairs from a research and theory and publication point of view. We did a lot of professional development efforts, And we did that actually in concert with some US institutions. We established something that we called the Qatar Foundation, YPI, Young Professionals Institute. And so we hosted institutions like Colorado State, Maryland, San Diego, who would bring their students over, and we would have these 2 week Experiences that were intensive cultural immersion, and then working in teams to bring ideas about Student affairs practice, but then to to recreate it as a cultural context. So we would have half US graduate and young professionals, and half Qatar based or Arab world based people that were interested in the field or employed in the field, and would they would work in teams together on certain kinds of topics. So for instance, one of the topics that was just wonderful to explore was the influence of family. And of course, US students are all talking about, oh, it's Important for you to be independent and autonomous from your families and so forth.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:22:05]: And our local Arab world colleagues and Asian colleagues were saying, no. Not so much. Not so much. And so literally, the US students relearned in very powerful ways. But on the other hand, Our Arab world colleagues, our Asian colleagues also learned the merits of fostering independence and autonomy while doing it in a respectful sort of way of Environments that are very, very family oriented. One of the things that I also did personally was I practiced Very deep humility on a regular basis, humility and curiosity. And I had several cultural informants, who were colleagues who were willing to give me the the straight scoop about how I was coming across. Oh, that's

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:49]: so important.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:22:51]: Oh my gosh. It was incredible. I would not have survived without them. No way. And so I would regularly meet with them and ask them what was Going well. What was not going so well? And they would tell me. And that was difficult at first because not only am I a Privileged white American. I'm also old.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:23:09]: I have white hair. And so in the cultural context, the reverence For somebody of my makeup was very significant and I really had to build trust so that people would tell me the truth. Because when you're in that kind of a position as a privileged white American or really kind of like as any kind of an American or European, you have to understand your Privilege. And if you don't understand your privilege, you're likely to do exactly what you suggested, which you will become a neocolonialist. You will impose your idea on other people whether it fits or not. And man, I just I learned so much from that. And I learned a term recently Lee, that I I think is kind of a really fun term. Have you ever heard of the term multi potentialite?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:52]: No. That's new for me.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:23:53]: It's actually TED Talks by Emily Wapnick. And when I listened to it, I kind of went like bingo. And all my career life, I've had wonderful jobs, and I've had a lot of fun, and I've had some Pushback in terms of I sometimes kind of have a different way of seeing things. Well, this multipotentialite thing has a lot to do with it. And the 3 characteristics that she identified are that they tend to be, very good at idea synthesis. They secondly are rapid learners, so they catch on quickly, and they they go for it while sometimes other people are kind of dragging their feet. And then thirdly, they're very adapt Across environments. And those things, I think, really, really helped me in the Qatar example.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:24:34]: And I think it also relates to just My identity as an artist because, you know, I have an undergraduate degree in music, and musicians are always looking for relationships, and harmony, and sequence, And patterns, that's who musicians or artists are. And I think I actually express that in my work in Some pretty interesting ways. And I'm saying this because I think some of us that may look a little different or think a little bit differently than colleagues around us sometimes End up feeling as if that were not appreciated or were not affirmed. And I think it's really important to kinda look at your own gifts and try to figure out how that they fit With any particular work environment or any particular calling that you may want to consider. And that has a whole lot to do with this whole transitions theme of Knowing yourself well enough to know your strengths and weaknesses, and then identifying opportunities where your best gifts are gonna meet the The needs of a particular environment, and you're gonna be able to be effective in that other setting. And for the most part, I've been lucky. I had a lot of good lands, Couple, that's so good, but that's kinda the luck of the draw with some of that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:43]: Let's talk about the transition of reverse culture shock. That's a rough one, and reverse culture shock, meaning you decided to return to the US to settle into semi retirement. You've been living in a different cultural context for 7 years at that point, but coming back to a context that you're supposed to know and understand well, but maybe may not make as much sense to you in some ways anymore or may make more sense to you in some ways. So what was that experience like?

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:26:09]: Yeah. Well, the first thing that I noticed was that People didn't really care. And that was frustrating because I learned so much from the work abroad experience I wanted to share. And so on numerous opportunities, I waxed eloquently about my work abroad experience, and eventually, I started noticing the glazed eyes And the fact that people just weren't interested. And that was disappointing to me as a reverse culture shock issue. I thought That my American colleagues around here would welcome that more. So I became more selective in terms of how I offered my point of view. And lots of people that I interact Now I have no clue that I've worked abroad and what my experience has been, and that's totally okay.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:26:53]: But I I had an urgency of wanting to share it. I think probably came from just Self processing. So it was self processing publicly by talking to other people about it. So that definitely was something. Our choice of coming back To a setting that was more inclusive and had more diversity in, and it was also very purposeful. I was still working in Qatar in 2012 when we actually purchased our home and my wife moved to Chicago. And we moved from Oxford, Ohio. And, Oxford, Ohio is a Small town, kind of a bubble kind of setting in itself, not a lot of diversity.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:27:27]: I knew full well there was no way that after working abroad, working with diverse colleagues, Working with diverse students, then I would be able to come back and and really enjoy a setting that was more homogeneous. So Chicago worked really well for us. We live in a very diverse neighborhood. Lots of internationals or expatriated people live in our neighborhood. Lots of cultural Diversity, socioeconomic diversity. I mean, I live in Wilmette, Illinois, and for those who have stereotypes about Wilmette, park them someplace Because, yes, there is the the North Shore Sheridan Road version of Wilmette, and then there's the version that I live in. And the version I live in is actually very diverse and very, very interesting. So the choice of where to come back as an expatriate, I think, is very important.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:28:12]: And that both relates To if you come back to work someplace, as well as to come back to live someplace. I think you don't just come back and replug in to the old way of being Because the old way of being is gone. It just doesn't exist, and you're not comfortable there anymore. So I was transformed by my experience and very much sought Diverse experience, diverse exposure, and then dialing it down in terms of sharing my international wisdom. I share that in my writing. I don't share it in my personal interaction with people.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:45]: Yes. And now you're sharing it on our show, which we're very grateful for.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:28:48]: So, I mean, that was so powerful. It was, really wonderful. And for people that might want to consider international experience, it is a transition out and then back. And you can look at Transition experiences that you've had in other work or personal circumstances to look at the kind of strengths and challenges that you faced, And then figure out how to navigate in ways that that do not violate your values. And that's a really important part of this too is understanding your values well enough to know where Where do you have some flexibility versus where can you adapt and do it in ways that are gonna be both to your benefit and the benefit of others?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:25]: What advice do you have for US based student affairs pros who might be looking for jobs in Education City or really anywhere outside of the US?

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:29:34]: They're kind of idiosyncratic in terms of the selection processes are not as transparent as they are in most US settings. And so at least in my experience, I don't know how this compares with yours, but it's not unusual at all for Referrals to be made on a personal basis rather than for there to be a an application process that you throw your vita or resume into the pile and it gets sorted out. So taking on experiences that allow you to tiptoe into it helps. I mean, my Luxembourg experience clearly Was tiptoeing into international work, so it was a temporary period. It was like a, you know, faculty study abroad program is basically what it was, and I think one of the things that I worry about a little bit is that sometimes I think people think that excuse me for being negative about this, But I've seen some study tours quote that are more what I would call ecotourism.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:29]: Academic tourism. Don't even get me started. It's a whole thing.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:30:32]: Okay. Well, you know exactly what I'm talking about. And that's not enough. If you're gonna choose an experience to Travel abroad, and you want to do it in a professional developing sort of way, then choose something that is a deep dive in terms of culture, requires lots of preparation in advance, requires lots of reflection during and after the process. Don't just go there to be able to notch it on your resume, travel to x number of countries. That just doesn't work, at least for me. And I I don't mean to be critical because I know all of these are steps toward being more internationally aware. But if you're in a student affairs position, you Kinda wanna consider this internationalization thing, then do it deeply.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:31:14]: You know, find a program that really is gonna give you a deep dive and really engage you in ways that helps you to teach Humility and curiosity. So that would be my advice.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:23]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:29]: Thanks, Jill. So great to be back in the NASPA world. Really excited to be able to talk to you about the amazing things that are happening within our association. The 2024 NASPA Student Affairs Fundraising Conference is coming up July 29th to July 31st in Louisville, Kentucky. The purpose of the NASPA Student Affairs Fundraising Conference is to share and exchange strategies, ideas, and resources, And to discuss issues related to student affairs fundraising and external relations. The conference promotes an exchange of best practices, And it is designed for professionals who currently have development responsibilities specifically in student affairs And for professionals with backgrounds and experience in either student affairs or development. The call for programs for this conference is Currently open until February 26, 2024. And if you have an interest in presenting at the conference, I encourage you to submit before the deadline To be able to be considered to share with amazing professionals that are all there interested in the same thing.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:38]: At the same time, we are also looking for reviewers for sessions that are submitted, and reviewer applications are also due by February 26th. Information on both of these opportunities can be found on the NASPA website. If you go to the event itself and click on it, You'll find out more information. Help ensure that eligible students are registered, educated about elections, and turn out to exercise their right to vote by considering to engage with the voter friendly campus program. This is a free initiative that's been growing since its inception in 2016 in partnership with the Campus Vote Project. You can find out more at campus vote Project .org. I know in the past I've talked about the Leadership Exchange as a great piece of professional development. This is a magazine that's sent out by NASPA every quarter to be able to allow for our vice presidents for student affairs to think about Topics that are pertinent to the day to day activities that they are dealing with, but that doesn't mean that if you're not a vice president for student affairs that you will not learn so much by reading the articles that are submitted.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:47]: One such article that I would highly recommend is called budget reduction 101, And it was written by incoming chair of the NASPA board, Anna Gonzalez and Christine Livingston. The great thing about this is that it is giving frontline perspectives on making effective cost cutting decisions and really gets into the mind of the chief student affairs officers on things that they can do to be able to cut costs and to manage Their divisions in an effective way. As I said, you don't have to be a vice president for student affairs to better understand this topic, but you will learn so much From reading this and getting into the mind of vice presidents within our association. If you have an interest in learning more about budget reduction or other topics, I encourage you to go to the NASPA website under publications and go to leadership exchange, and you'll be able to access the winter 2024 issue that does have This specific article in it or many of the other issues that have come in the past that I think that you will find to be Very eye opening. I know I've mentioned this before, but there are some amazing keynote speakers that are going to be at the 2024 NASPA virtual conference That is available April 2nd through 5th, and it's something that you and colleagues on your own campuses can definitely take advantage of Whether you're going to the national conference or not. A few of the keynote speakers that are going to be highlighted That are going to be speaking at the conference itself includes Josie Elquist, who's a higher education digital educator leader and author, Shawna Patterson Stevens. Doctor Shawna Patterson Stevens, vice president for inclusive excellence and belonging At at Central Michigan University and also doctor Kevin Kruger, president of NASPA will be speaking at the virtual conference. This among many great concurrent sessions that are available are going to allow for you and your colleagues to leave the days with So much great professional development and opportunities to be able to learn right from home or right from campus.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:57]: If you wanna find out more about the virtual conference, go to learning .naspa.org Forward slash v c dash sessions. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways Because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be Getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, It's important to be able to identify for yourself. Where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might Encourage you might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey. I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that or encourage you in other ways That allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, Your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:22]: Because through doing that, All of us are stronger, and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:34]: Thank you, Chris, for giving us the latest scoop on what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Denny, we have reached our lightning round. I have 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. You ready to go?

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:37:46]: I sure am. Yep.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:47]: Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:37:52]: Well, I'm a classical musician trained person. It would be, The last movement of Mahler's 8th symphony.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:02]: That'll be a very dramatic entrance.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:38:03]: Very dramatic. Very dramatic. Yep.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:05]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:38:09]: Oh, I wanted to be a concert pianist. That was my whole vision of myself as a

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:13]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:38:17]: Wow. This one is tough. I kinda thought about this a little bit this morning because I've had some great Mentors, I have to admit most of them have been women, and one person who is a colleague and mentor is Susan Komovaz. She's a delightful human being, and we Change a lot. Barbara Kellerman in the leadership studies world is somebody that I really respect. Esther Lloyd Jones, I had a chance to know her, and She taught me a lots of things about student affairs and what we're here for, and so I broke the rule. I gave you 3, so that's enough.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:45]: Number 4, your Essential Student Affairs Read.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:38:48]: Essential Student Affairs Read? Actually, Esther Lloyd Jones, deeper learning and leadership 1954.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:53]: Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:38:58]: Oh, wow. Do I have to admit it? Succession. I'm sorry.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:06]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:39:10]: I actually listen to I do listen to this one, and I Really, really enjoyed this this podcast, but I watch, the International Leadership Association podcast, and there are actually a couple of them that I watch, regularly to get the wisdom from those.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:25]: And finally, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional?

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:39:29]: I thank Chris For introducing me to this opportunity, I think I'm kinda known in the in the professional world as more of an ACPA kind of person. So I don't show up in the NASPA space as As often as I might, even though I've been an ASPA member most of my career. Kevin Kruger was he had his 1st job with me. Yeah. And lots and lots of colleagues that are very active in NASPA, but I have maintained more in the the, ACPA area. And, you know, for me, these professional associations are so important in terms of giving us a colleague network, a way to push our understanding to Standing to learn from each other and that kind of thing. And so I I would give a a shout out to folks like you that are trying to get people's voices out there and get exchanged And professional organizations that allow us to relate to one another and discover how to do our best work.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:21]: Thank you so much, Denny. It's been an incredible opportunity to get know you today and your story. If anyone would like to reach you after the show airs, how can they find you?

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:40:30]: My professional email is dc roberts48@gmail.com. And in Wilmette, Illinois, I have a LinkedIn profile. I have 2 blogs That I maintain one is called Pursuing Leadership by Denny, and that one's mostly about it has a lot in travel because I started in 2005 when I went to Luxembourg, but it's all by reading that I do on a regular basis. And then the other one's called Global Student Affairs. And that's more about international implications For people that are in student affairs work. So those would be the best ways to get in touch with me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:05]: I'm looking forward to checking out that second one in particular.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:41:07]: Jill, it's been great. Yeah. We have so many nice connections, and I feel like we're possibly birthed from the same parents. I don't know. But

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:16]: I appreciate the deep connections on so many levels, whether it be music or international higher education or student affairs journey or even where we've been in the US. So, Denny, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Dr. Denny Roberts [00:41:29]: Great. Alright. I look forward to seeing you again.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:34]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices From the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at s a voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. Ginz. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:08]: It really does help other student fairs professionals find the show, and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your or as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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Adapting to Students' Needs Across Institutional Types

The recent episode of the SA Voices From The Field Podcast featuring Hing Potter dove deep into student affairs and the unique intricacies of working at different types of educational institutions. Potter's transition to the assistant director of student life and leadership at City College of San Francisco brought to light his advocacy for student development through inclusion and empowerment, which is a hallmark of his 11-year career.

Changes in Professional Focus

One remarkable aspect Potter shared was how his professional focus needed to shift as he navigated the diverse environments of 4-year public, 4-year private, and 2-year public institutions. This included adjusting plans and thought processes according to the timeframe of students' academic careers, thereby reinforcing the importance of adaptability in student affairs.

Ensuring Continuity and Leadership

Another challenge Dr. Jill Creighton discussed with Potter is how to guarantee continuity and develop student leadership within the limited timespan specific to 2-year colleges. Potter emphasized the need for transparency in passing on institutional knowledge, ensuring that successive student councils can uphold and continue advocating for student experiences.

Salary Negotiation and Personal Advocacy

The episode also highlighted Hing Potter's recent negotiation for a higher salary at City College, a testament to recognizing and advocating for one's value in the workplace. Dr. Jill Creighton's insights into the importance of comparing qualifications with job descriptions, depersonalizing negotiations, and communicating in writing provided listeners with valuable tips for their own career advancements.

Upcoming NASPA Events

Additionally, the episode provided updates on upcoming NASPA events, such as the 2024 Leadership Educators Institute and the 2024 national conference. These gatherings represent the changing and elevating landscape of student affairs as professionals continue their journey.

Hing Potter's story is not just about the transitions within the professional sphere but also about personal growth and advocacy. It teaches us the profound impact of understanding institutional types, the art of negotiation, and the continuous pursuit of fostering student success.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of on transitions in student affairs. This Podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton. She, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on SA Voices, we are pleased to welcome Heng Potter. Going into 11 years in student affairs, Heng Potter, he, him, main drive has been to support student development by creating space and opportunity through inclusion, empowerment, and self authorship. In his own state of transition this past fall, Hing became the new assistant director of student life and leadership at City College of San Francisco where he advises the Associated Students, overseas student clubs and orgs, and is responsible for the student union. As a Khmer Transracial Transnational Adoptee or TRA and having previous life and work in Seattle, Boise, New York City, San Jose, and now San Francisco, Heng is no stranger to transformative life experience and transitions from one place to the next.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:08]: In the community. Heng serves on the leadership team of the San Francisco chapter of Project by Project, a national nonprofit focused on amplifying Asian American issues, and he also serves on the leadership team of the NASPA Asian Pacific Islander Knowledge Community or APIKC. In his own time, Hing enjoys travel, photography, and spending time with a 17 year old dachshund, Buster, and his partner, Jasmine. Ping, welcome to SA Voices.

Hing Potter [00:01:33]: Hi. Thanks for having me here today.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:35]: We're very glad to feature you today about your transition that is fairly fresh. By the time this episode airs, you'll have been in your new position for about 3 or for months. But right now, we're sitting at about the 60 day mark. And right now, before we get into all of the details of your transition, I'd love guests to start with how you got to your current seat.

Hing Potter [00:01:55]: Yeah. Thank you so much again. Let's see. I came To City College of San Francisco because in my previous role, I felt like I had just outgrown myself. There wasn't much room for need to expand my professional skills or abilities. And I really just wanted to find a new challenge, a new way for me to interact with students, And I think it was just time for me to move on. So, you know, I did the whole thing where I put myself out there as best possible in different Formats apply to different colleges and universities, and City College of San Francisco is one of them, back in, I think, April time. And then I had a Couple interviews, 1 in the end of April and then 1 in the middle of May.

Hing Potter [00:02:35]: That interview was all the way when I was vacationing in Spain, unforced I was actually on my way to my cousin's Wedding rehearsal dinner a hour before that. And I had, like, my laptop and everything on top of, like, this ironing board to give it elevation and stuff, And I met with the dean and the vice chancellor at that time. And then, over the summer, I eventually heard back by August. And 2 months later, I'm here. So that's, in a nutshell, what happened.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:02]: And you physically moved as well. Yes? Moved cities?

Hing Potter [00:03:05]: Kind of. Actually, if we wanna expand this whole transition period, when the pandemic hit in early 2020, that's when I had actually moved from New York City to San Jose, California, so South Bay Area. And that was when I also moved into that new position at my previous role. And then that was an experience in itself because I felt like maybe I was, like, one of the first people to actually move geographical locations in the early onset of Pandemic, and I had left pretty much all of my stuff in New York. I brought a suitcase with me of just clothes, and then I had to ask a friend back in New York to Muster up the courage and go to my apartment and, like, pack all my stuff and wear a face mask and tell her to, like, please take care of yourself. If you don't feel comfortable, Please don't do this. But if it you are able to, I would, like, be more than happy to, like, compensate you in some way, shape, or form. I'll even pay for the shipping, of course.

Hing Potter [00:03:57]: And so she was actually very, very, very helpful, and I'm so much gratitude for her for shipping all my stuff out to me from New York to the Bay Area.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:05]: That's a great friend.

Hing Potter [00:04:06]: Yeah. Somebody who really went above and beyond the call of duty. And then fast forward a couple years Now from San Jose, I now live in kinda close by Stanford University in between Palo Alto, Menlo Park area. And I'm here with my partner and our little tiny 16 year old, dachshund. So his name is bust. Oh, senior doggy. Yes. He's a pandemic puppy.

Hing Potter [00:04:30]: A couple years ago, my partner really, really, really, really wanted a dog, so We finally caved.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:36]: So thinking about all of the transitions that you've gone through, and it's really not just this immediate transition, but Lots of transitions starting about 3, 4 years ago at this point. How did you prepare yourself mentally to throw yourself into new environments and new spaces and new collegial relationships when the world was kind of in upheaval.

Hing Potter [00:04:57]: I think for me, coming from New York to the Bay Area, That was definitely a challenge because, you know, initially, I had asked if I could go from New York to my parents in Seattle. And they actually told me no, not because they don't love me, but because at that time, everybody's very nervous about the Pandemic, and my parents are 60 and over. And at that time, you know, elderly people wanna be cautious. And that also New York was One of the early epicenters of the pandemic. And so they actually told me no. I was devastated inside, and I didn't know exactly how I was gonna get out of New York. I didn't know how I was gonna to this new job that I had lined up for myself. I didn't know if it would be safe to fly.

Hing Potter [00:05:40]: A lot of things were up in the air. So I must've got my own courage. I bought a ticket actually from New York to Idaho because I went to undergrad in Idaho, and I made a lot of good friends out there. And Idaho hadn't really been hit yet, So I called up my friends there and say, hey. I need a crash over there. Can I hang out with you for a little bit? They're like, yeah. Yeah. No problem.

Hing Potter [00:06:00]: Stay as long as you need. Get yourself out of New York. Do what you need to do. So I went to Idaho, actually, and I was there for a whole month, April that year. And then my job was supposed to start in June, and so I needed to somehow then get from Idaho to the Bay Area. So then I ended up buying a car because I realized at that time the pandemic was just getting worse, and flying just wasn't an option anymore for me, Personally, I just didn't feel comfortable. And so I bought a car, and then I drove all the way from Idaho to the Bay Area. It's about maybe 10 hours or so Driving, and I got here.

Hing Potter [00:06:38]: And in the whole mist of, like, trying to get from Idaho to the Bay Area, I found this guy on Craigslist who had a extra room in a bungalow house for pretty cheap. And I was like, hey. It's something he told me he that he keeps his place clean and sanitary, and then he takes all the COVID precautions at that time, and I had to trust him and just go with it. So I did that. And then I got there in May, had a couple weeks to just Chill and not do anything, like, literally not do anything because everybody's on shutdown, and I'm just twiddling my thumbs in front of my face trying to stay active somehow. And then 2 weeks later, I start on June 1st at my previous role and went from there. It was a wild, maybe two and a half months or so In that transition.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:20]: So by comparison, your transition to your current position maybe seems a little more mild.

Hing Potter [00:07:25]: It definitely. A little bit more mild, a little bit more easy to Navigate. I didn't necessarily have to, like, change states twice. I didn't have to figure out how to get from a to b buying a new car or anything. Or I have a car now. Thank goodness. And I can take public transportation, which is pretty nice. And City of College isn't that far from where I live now, where I as I used to work in San Jose, California.

Hing Potter [00:07:47]: When you're now, I work in almost South San Francisco area, so not too much of a hassle there.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:51]: Did you change functional areas?

Hing Potter [00:07:53]: You could say that. Yes. So in my previous role, I was in student services, which is more comprehensive. It supported students, particularly graduate students, trying to help them with navigating everything From student involvement to student resources to crisis management, title 9 advocacy, and Overall student services operations, so making sure everything from new student orientation in their own transition into the university, All the way to commencement so they're transitioned out of the university. And here in my new role, I strictly just advise the associate student Councils. I support student clubs and organizations, and I'm responsible for the student union building. So a lot more, you know, defined role for me, a lot more Concentrated, which I appreciate, and a big pay bump for me. So I'm I'm happy about where I'm at right now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:43]: I believe you also shifted from private to 2 year public, which is, I think, a pretty big mentality shift in terms of how you approach the work every day. So tell us about that transition of environment.

Hing Potter [00:08:56]: Oh my gosh. That is definitely something of a transition to experience. So I actually used to work in a public institution where I got to experience all that bureaucracy, barriers, and red tape, whatever you wanna call it. And then coming to My previous university as a private institution, you have a lot of leeway to kinda just do what you need to do. You have a lot more independent ability to make decisions and support your students in a more immediate manner. And I had my own university card, which was Super flexible in terms of, like, just making purchases and getting what we needed to have for our next event. You still set boundaries, of course, with their students So, like, hey. You gotta meet some timelines.

Hing Potter [00:09:37]: I can't just go out tomorrow and get what you need for the next day, but it was a lot more flexible, I would say. And here coming back into the public sector, you definitely hit the wall really hard In terms of what is allowable in certain time frames and how you can get things done through different mechanisms. I also don't have a university or a college card anymore, so that's very interesting. And I actually had a a conversation with some students today. And Normally on Fridays, they get pizza for their meetings. And so this Friday, because it's their last meeting of the semester, they wanted to kinda have a little bit more of a Grandiose food invitation for people to come and join them. And they they honestly came up to me and said, hey, Heng. I know that this is really Awkward, but would you be willing to help us with, like, food and stuff? And I was like, well, what do you mean? Like, well, are you okay with putting this on your card, and we'll reimburse you? Like, Which is typical at this school.

Hing Potter [00:10:38]: But in such a short period of time, I really had to just say, you know what? I can't do this. This is only a couple days notice, and you don't know if I have this money set aside personally for other things that I need to do. And I'm gonna be honest. Like, you guys need to prepare or plan ahead more in advance for something like this. You can't just make last minute adjustments. And the fact that you coming up to me saying, hey. Hey. This is really awkward, lets me know that you know you didn't plan well enough for quite a change in just 2 days.

Hing Potter [00:11:07]: So There's that kind of mentality when it comes to how you get funds and resources or how you have to Plan ahead and think about what you wanna do. And at a private institution, you might be able to have a little bit more flexibility with last minute adjustments. But at a public institution, you kinda have to be committed. One of my previous roles when I was in New York at John Jay, all of our clubs had to Submit, for example, a whole year's worth, a calendar of events with budgets for each events, and that was due before classes started in the fall. And these were events all the way from September all the way to next May. And at at private school, you still have a year's worth of events planned out, but you don't have to Necessarily preallocate a whole bunch of stuff that far in advance. So a lot more flexibility in terms of, like, what you can and cannot do. So quickly learning that back here in the public sector on my own.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:00]: Flexibility, but also budgetary privilege. So I think depending on the nature of your private institution, the funds are just unrestricted in different ways where they might be more restricted at a public institution, but also the privilege of the size of the budget Or the different things that you're doing. And it always hurts my heart to hear that a lot of times that students or individual Professionals are funding the work of the university and having it reimbursed. I think that's a business practice that is really challenging because it makes a lot of assumptions, and it also puts the labor on the people that are earning the least. It's just it's a challenging dynamic.

Hing Potter [00:12:37]: Me and my new dean, we we talked about how where do we draw the line when it comes to like this. And is this really our problem in terms of using our personal funds, or how much of this is a college problem? The fact that the college doesn't have the mechanisms in place is not my issue, and it's not my dean's issue. It's, you know, the college's issue that They can't have systems where it's more streamlined and it's more beneficial and it's more immediate For the student experience. So that really does impact how they go around doing things. And I don't want students to be spending most of their Time when they're in these leadership roles or in they're in these student clubs trying to navigate these systems. That's not what being involved uninvolved student is about. I want them to be able to just do what they need to do, and institutions in general need to figure out what that is that they can do to kind of, like, break down those Barriers. Unfortunately, it might not always be a college issue.

Hing Potter [00:13:33]: It could be a district wide issue, or it could be a state issue. And in different institutions, It could come down to, you know, the registrars or the bursars or whoever's controlling the money for the institution. It could be a specific department issue and a range of things, but Students shouldn't have to be navigating those those types of waters in the 1st place, I don't think.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:53]: Other than the budgetary modeling and planning, what are the other differences that you're experiencing moving from private to public.

Hing Potter [00:14:01]: Well, one of the things is that at my private institution that I was at, it was a 4 year institution. But I was working mostly with graduate students in tech. And now I'm working with community college students who Have a range of ages and a range of perspectives. And I was also formally more working mostly with international graduate Students. And now I'm working with mostly domestic US students. So that's kind of a shift in itself. Working with international students, you really had to Talk to them a lot more about culture and around how higher ed works in terms of different systems and processes to get their programming in place. Whereas at City College of San Francisco, the students are a little bit more intuitive about these processes because it's kind of built into the culture of, like, going to school and the stuff that my international students were doing, the graduate international students were Very more professional development focused, whereas the community college students, they're more about building culture.

Hing Potter [00:15:02]: They're more about enriching this the campus experience. They're also doing a lot of they have this theme this year, informal theme of advocacy. So they're really trying to, like, source What are the issues on campus and how they're impacting students and what their role is in terms of advocating for a better experience when it comes to x, y, and z issues. So Whereas the international students, again, more professional development focused, not necessarily too concerned with the policies and issues that might that you might find at institution of of a 4 year institutions. Kinda some of those on the surface level differences for sure.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:37]: I feel like a lot of Professionals spend most of their career in one type of institution, and you've done 4 year public, 4 year private, and now 2 year public. Kind of looking across all of those experiences. And to overgeneralize to a degree, what do you see as kind of the changes in Foci for you as a professional as you navigate these different types of institutions.

Hing Potter [00:16:00]: I think, For me, the focus between we'll just generalize from a 4 year to a 2 year. The focus is at a 4 year institution, You have the ability to work with the students in a little bit more long term opportunity. You're working for example, when I was at John Jay, I'm working with these students who find themselves invested in in programming and involvement and leadership in a more long term plan. Whereas Here at City College, they wanna be done in 2 years. And so they wanna have action. They wanna have things get done a lot more quickly. But, again, kinda going back to the whole bureaucracy machine, how quickly that happens can be different. So it's like I was talking to a student actually the other day.

Hing Potter [00:16:47]: We were talking about this whole three five seven plan. What do you wanna have normally happen in 3 years and 5 years and 7 years? And I had to work with the student to say, like, okay. Well, we're at a 2 year school. Instead of 357, what do you wanna have done maybe in, like, 2 semesters, in 3 semesters, and 4 semesters? Because by that time, now the question should be, what have you been able to do in terms of advocating for the student experience that you want? And when you walk away, What kind of legacy will you be proud to have left here at City College that you can say, I did that? Whereas at a 4 year institution, I'm I'm working with students. Not necessarily 357 again, but more of like, k. What do you wanna do in the 1st year, the 2nd year, 3rd year, and 4th year? So it's a little bit different planning, a little bit different, like, Thought process when I'm working with the students in that regard. How do

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:41]: you plan for continuity and student leadership in a model that's much shorter in time frame?

Hing Potter [00:17:47]: Oh my goodness. It really does come down, I think, to working with the students on that transition between leadership. So, for example, really working with the council that I have right now and saying, how are we building your council institutional knowledge, And how are we working to make sure that that knowledge is passed on to the next council in a transparent and clear way? What are you doing right now to make sure that if so and so person who follows you in your footsteps, When they pick up the work that you're doing, they can easily see, oh, okay. I have to now do steps 3, 4, and 5 because the last person did Steps 1 and 2. So it really comes down to that clear transparency of what they're doing now, how they're doing it, and Putting it together for, clearly, for the next group. One of the things that we actually talked about coincidentally today is communication. Not just communication between each other today, but communication between a theoretical group that's gonna take over next year And then that group that's gonna take over in 2 years. City College is building its new student success center.

Hing Potter [00:18:54]: And one of the big projects that this council wants to have is this social justice mural that will go in the student success center. The building is not gonna be done for another, maybe, two and a half years. So by then, we'll be 2, maybe 3 councils down the road. What does that continuity look like between today and the council that looks To be there in place when the student success center actually comes online. So these are questions that I'm asking of them to consider as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:21]: You've got this beautiful plan going forward, and we all know that with student leadership shifts, priorities change as well. How do you Think you're going to be navigating when the priorities of previous councils don't align with the future councils.

Hing Potter [00:19:36]: I think the biggest thing when I'm working with students is really creating a mindset of student Advocacy, student experience, and this notion of student involvement that is meaningful And that is impactful. And so the focus of each council I think it's okay for it to change year over year if that's the case. But as long as it's still centered and rooted in enhancing the student experience or enhancing the Opportunities that students have to get involved and get engaged, grow their skill sets professionally and personally, then I think that's the core thing to to maintain. And that's something that I will always tell students regardless of how long I'm in this field. And that's something that I've always told students for the 10 years that I've been in this field is that priorities change, and that's totally fine. And my job isn't necessarily to tell students what their priorities should be. My job is to tell them, Hey. Your priorities are great.

Hing Potter [00:20:36]: They make sense that they're sustainable. But as long as they're rooted in the ability for students to grow themselves. I think that's the most important factor there.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:46]: Let's back up a little bit and talk about you as a human doing all of these transitions. So you've created what sounds like a really great game plan for yourself for the next couple of semesters in this new position. But what other factors did you need to be thinking about about entering a new role, especially knowing that the institutional type was going to be a new environment for you.

Hing Potter [00:21:07]: Personally, for me, before I came to City College, One of the requirements for me was that I needed them to honor my 2 week vacation that I had that I just came back from a couple weeks ago when I went to Asia. And if they didn't do that, then that was gonna be a deal breaker. And so luckily for me, they said yes. Like, no worries. We'll make it work. We definitely wanna respect that. Another thing for me was just making sure that my own value was seen and met In terms of the abilities that I bring to the table, but also the lifestyle that I wanted to maintain or grow myself. So in terms of, like, a salary, I had to really learn how to advocate.

Hing Potter [00:21:46]: This is my 1st time advocating for a salary that I wanted, a salary that I knew that I deserved. I think, City College, they they have this grade step program where I think it's, like, grades 1 through 12 or something. And they posted this position as grade 1, so they were gonna offer me grade 1. And me knowing what I know, how long I've been in the field, I knew that I was not at that value. So I also felt a little bit like, okay. Grade 1 is entry level. You know? I'm I'm justifying these reasons for why I'm not a grade one person. Grade one is entry level.

Hing Potter [00:22:23]: I'm well beyond entry level. I have a better understanding of the student experience At multiple different types of institutions, coast to coast, I'm not grade one value. So I actually had to write this out in an email to them to the HR office. And I, you know, came to them with all these points. And the next day, they gave me a call, and I said, Hey. How's it going? And they said, well, we wanted to talk to you about your salary. And I was like, okay. Well, first, before you say anything, I'm sorry.

Hing Potter [00:22:51]: But before you say anything, Did you get my email? Yes. We got your email. Okay. Great. And I wanted to ask that because it's super important that we start there because that is what's important to me. That is where I see my value. And what can you offer me based upon me being in student affairs for 10 years, me having all this different and the fact that you came to me asking me to come to City College. And so they actually bumped me up 3 or 4 grades more, which was An extra almost $20,000.

Hing Potter [00:23:23]: So when they offered me that, I was like, okay. Now we're talking. Like, I can come to City College now. So it was a lot of anxiety. It was I was really nervous when I'm typing this email out to HR. My fingers were sweating, and I had never really been Taught or told how to write an email out like this or or anything? I mean, people tell you all the time, know your worth. Know what your value is. And I honestly think, you know, it is easier said than done to, like, give this advice to people.

Hing Potter [00:23:52]: But when the person who's receiving that advice takes it, Yes. You can receive it. But then when it comes time to execute it, it's a whole another story. Like, you now have to do something that you might not ever have done before. You might have to do something that another person that looks like me, a brown Asian person, might not have ever done before. And so I share this story now because I think it's super important that I have now lived this experience. I have written that email. I've Had that tough conversation with HR to say, this is a deal breaker.

Hing Potter [00:24:23]: If you don't see my value, don't recognize me for what I bring to the table, then I don't know if I can come to City College. Luckily enough for me, they saw that and were able to give me what I wanted.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:33]: And I think that's great advice. And, also, it sounds like you were willing to walk away if that was necessary.

Hing Potter [00:24:39]: I'll be completely honest. I wasn't necessarily happy at my previous role because, as I said, there was no growth you did for me there. I wasn't doing the creative work that I love doing anymore there because I just didn't have the opportunities to to banned. But if City College didn't see my worth or my value, I sadly was going to stay at my previous role and suck it up because It just wasn't something that I really wanted to fight for, to go to battle for. I was making the self conscious decision that Even though I wasn't growing, I still loved the students. And I don't think anybody I'm not saying to do what I do or Think about what I think about, but it's a really sad situation, I think, when people are put into those situations. And having to decide whether you You wanna stay at a place where you have no growth, but you love the students or having to potentially go somewhere else where they might see your value, but you don't know what you're getting yourself into. So it's it's a tricky field to navigate.

Hing Potter [00:25:41]: And regardless of who you are, I wouldn't wish that on anybody. It just happened to turn out in my favor for me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:47]: We haven't talked a ton about salary negotiation on the show, and I think you've offered some really important tips. Let me repackage them just really concisely for folks who are trying to negotiate for themselves and have never done it before. Step 1 is to compare your resume and your experiences with the job description and really note where you meet and where you exceed those minimum qualifications and those preferred qualifications because that's gonna be your starting point for arguing for more money. It's not really an argument, a negotiation. And I think step 2 is, Ping said it really well, you need to be working with HR, not necessarily the hiring manager, depending on who's making the offer, and it is typically coming from the HR perspective. Sometimes you're gonna run up against a budgetary limitation where there's only so much budgeted for the position and there's not flexibility, and that's something you need to be prepared to here. And sometimes you're going to be in a position like Hain was where your experiences are clearly articulated in a way that the budgetary Alignment wasn't there from the starting spot and you can get there together to an ending spot. But I think another important thing is to depersonalize it a little bit.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:54]: So instead of saying, can you offer x? Perhaps can x institution offer this amount of money? And so you're asking what the institution can do, not what the person can do. And that can depersonalize it a little bit and make it really more about the business perspective about what's happening in your salary negotiation. The 3rd piece of advice that I heard from Hing is make sure you do it in writing at first. And then beyond that, you can have that negotiation conversation on the phone. But getting it out in writing also gives both parties a chance to really be reflective and think about things. And that way, it's also not a pressured environment for either party, and no one is kind of at liberty to respond in the moment. They can both go back and take some time. Did I miss any tips from you, Heng?

Hing Potter [00:27:37]: No. That was very well, succinctly said for me. Appreciate it. The only other thing that I would Definitely recommend is that when you do go into a different institution and you start looking at how their salaries are structured is really becoming knowledgeable about their pay grade systems and how it works. The California Community College System is a beast, And I wouldn't know where to look because I don't know the system that well. But when I had started looking at the salary options and things like that, A really good friend of mine, doctor Dawn Li from San Jose State University, she had previous experience in the community college system and really gave me some good advice and helped me to navigate some of these intricacies when it comes to payroll structures and how to word things and how to really advocate for yourself. So I really wanna just give a shout out to her and give her all the things and and being able to support me. So having somebody, you know, with that experience in Whatever system you are looking potentially to go into, that's another plus on your half if you can get that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:42]: It's time to take a quick Break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:48]: Thanks so much, Jill. Really excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there is So much going on as we continue to move into 2024. The 2024 Leadership Educators Institute is from December 9th through 11th in Philadelphia. Make sure to save that date because the Leadership Educators Institute or LEI provides a unique Opportunity for all professional levels within our field to engage in critical dialogue to promote positive, sustainable change on their campuses. LEI is a partnership between NASPA, ACPA, College Student Educators International, and the National Clearing House for leadership programs. Go to the NASBA website under events for more information. If you are planning to attend the 2024 national conference in Seattle, Washington from March 9th through 13th. There's a number of things that you need to know.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:42]: Make sure to check your email because you're getting dates sent to you on a regular basis. There are still opportunities to sign up the volunteer at NASPA 2024. So if you're interested in helping to make this year's conference amazing, make sure to sign up today to be able to Find some time to volunteer at as a part of this amazing conference. Volunteering is a fantastic way to support the conference, serve your colleagues, And make this year's event the best it can possibly be. As I said, an email has been sent out with a sign up that you can use to be able to find a time that works best for your schedule, and I encourage you to take advantage of that right away. Recently, Aku Oai, the placement exchange in NASPA released a joint statement with some exciting news about the placement exchange. They've developed a brand new brand identity, a new website, revamped resources, and enhanced Services. If you haven't checked it out yet, I encourage you to check out the newly redesigned website at www Dot the placement exchange, all one word, .org.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:51]: Though TPE is gonna look a little bit different and feel a little bit different, They are elevating their game to be able to do what they can to be able to assist all of us as professionals in our own professional journey. So check out the placement exchange today to find out more about what TPE can offer you in the journey that you're on. I also wanted to let you know about a Free event that is happening called well-being in higher education, raising literacy and advancing the conversation. Join over 20 higher education associations As they come together in dialogue around well-being. Now this buzzword is seemingly everywhere, But what does it really mean? Why does it matter? And how can we each contribute to this critical work? Well-being in higher education, raising literacy, and Dancing the Conversation is a free virtual event taking place February 26th through March 1st. The well-being in higher education event is One of the outcomes of the health and well-being in higher education, a commitment to student success, and will help Put the inter association well-being definition into practice. Registration details and a more detailed schedule of sessions is available on the NASPA website. So go to the NASPA website today to find out more about this amazing free professional development event.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:14]: Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So We are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because The association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be Getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, It's important to be able to identify for yourself. Where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that We will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will Provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey. I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, To offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents and to all of the members within the association because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:34]: Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:39]: Chris, thank you so much for another excellent NASPA world segment. We really appreciate you keeping us stated on what's going on in and around in NASPA. And, Heng, we have reached the part of the show where we do our lightning round, and I have 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. You ready?

Hing Potter [00:33:55]: Let's do it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:56]: Alright. Question 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music

Hing Potter [00:34:03]: to be. Maybe, Get Low by, Lil Jon and the Yingying Twins.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:06]: Number 2. When you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew

Hing Potter [00:34:10]: A pilot. An airline pilot, hands down.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:13]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Hing Potter [00:34:16]: I would say my housing director From when I was in ResLife as a resident assistant back in Seattle, Luke Botstein from Edmonds College.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:27]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Hing Potter [00:34:30]: At the moment, the NASPA conference 2024 website because I'm trying to stay up on today on that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:36]: Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic.

Hing Potter [00:34:39]: I rewatched The West Wing, I think, for the 6th or 7th time, and then I'm also a Trekkie, so I watched Star Trek The Next Generation, then Deep Space Nine, and then Voyager.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:49]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Hing Potter [00:34:53]: Probably a toss-up between the The Daily, I think it is, and then the NPR Politics podcast in the afternoon.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:59]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional?

Hing Potter [00:35:03]: Definitely wanna give a shout out to my friends on the API KCL looking forward to a 2024 conference experience that's gonna be amazing with you all. And then also specifically to my My awards and recognition co chairs Jerome and Justin. So really appreciate being with you all. And then, of course, Wanna give a shout out lastly to my best and favorite director ever out there in New York City, doctor Danielle Officer at John Jay College.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:33]: Ping, it's been a pleasure to hear about your transition today. If others would like to reach you after the show, how can they grab you?

Hing Potter [00:35:39]: Send me a DM or Follow me on Instagram at Hing d Potter or threads. I guess that's the new thing these days. Feel free to follow me on threads.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:48]: Hing, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Hing Potter [00:35:50]: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me again. Really appreciate it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:56]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices From the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with to the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill Elcraton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a five a star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's to profile within the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor to Chris Lewis.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:44]: Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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This week on the SA Voices From The Field Podcast we bring you Angelina Jenkins, Assistant Director with Initiatives for Identity, Inclusion, & Belonging (i3b) for The Mosaic: Center for Cultural Diversity at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County. We are excited to explore her own professional journey as a mid level professional to doctoral student while also balancing and supporting her own multiple identities and what has helped her to become the person she is today.

Angelina Jenkins (she/her/hers), originally from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania is a proud bi-racial, multi-ethnic Asian American woman and daughter of a South Korean immigrant. She integrates these aspects of her identity into celebrating authenticity and culture while also exploring the journey of building an understanding of self-empowerment. She works with students, staff/faculty, and community members to cultivate an inclusive learning and healing environment through the celebration of culture and identity. Angelina is currently the Assistant Director with Initiatives for Identity, Inclusion, & Belonging (i3b) for The Mosaic: Center for Cultural Diversity at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County. She is also in her first year of doctoral studies, pursuing a Ph.D. at The University of Maryland in the Higher Education, Student Affairs, and International Education Policy program. Angelina currently serves as one of the 2023-2025 Asian Pacific Islanders Promoting Educational eXcellence (APPEX) Coordinators for the NASPA APIKC Leadership Team.

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As we step into the year 2024, Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Christopher Lewis are excited to bring you Season 10 of SA Voices from the Field! In this episode, the hosts reflect on our journey, celebrating the four-year anniversary of collaborating on the show and the immense impact it has had on the community.

Embracing Transitions

Dr. Creighton and Dr. Lewis highlighted the success of the previous season, which centered on transitions in student affairs. They expressed their enthusiasm for the overwhelming response from guests and listeners, prompting them to continue exploring this critical theme in the upcoming season. The decision to extend the focus on transitions demonstrates the importance of understanding and navigating the multifaceted experiences of professionals in student affairs. Diverse Perspectives on Transitions The hosts emphasized the diversity of transitions covered in the previous season, ranging from personal and professional life transitions to national and international relocations. This diversity underscored the multifaceted nature of transitions experienced by individuals within the student affairs community. By acknowledging and amplifying these diverse voices, the podcast fosters a more inclusive dialogue on the challenges and triumphs associated with transitions.

The Power of Storytelling

A key takeaway from the episode was the power of storytelling in engendering understanding and empathy. Dr. Creighton and Dr. Lewis expressed gratitude to the guests who shared their transition stories, emphasizing the impact of these narratives in enriching the collective knowledge of the student affairs community. By amplifying these stories, the podcast serves as a platform for professionals to learn from each other's experiences and gain insights into managing transitions effectively.

Engaging the Community

The hosts extended an invitation for the audience to actively participate in the upcoming season by sharing their transition stories. This call to action emphasizes the inclusive and participatory nature of the podcast, empowering listeners to contribute their voices to the ongoing dialogue. By featuring the community's stories, the podcast not only expands its content but also strengthens the sense of camaraderie and support among student affairs professionals.

Connecting at Conferences

Dr. Creighton and Dr. Lewis expressed anticipation for engaging with the audience at an upcoming conference in Seattle. They highlighted the significance of in-person connections and the opportunity to gather further insights from the community. The podcast's commitment to engaging with professionals in live settings underscores its dedication to fostering meaningful connections and continuously learning from the community.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 9 on transitions in student affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, And I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. It's 2024, Chris.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:25]: It is. It's amazing. I can't believe that it hits already 2024.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:29]: We were just talking about this in our preshow conversation, But this will actually mark the 4 year anniversary of us collaborating on this show.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:39]: I can say that I never would have expected that we would have Kept going for 4 years, but it has been an amazing ride. We've learned so much from so many of our guests, and it's been so much fun.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:50]: I am Very proud of the work that we've put out over the last couple of years. And this last season, season 9 on transitions has really been a popular one in terms of guests wanting to come on the show and people asking to hear more about these spaces. So for season 10, which feels fitting because it's on our anniversary of the show year. We're actually gonna just kinda keep it rolling, which we've never done before. We've never done a double season on 1 theme, But we felt like there were a lot more stories still to tell in this transition space.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:23]: Everyone's transition is so different. And we heard that in this season, in season 9, but so many people, like you said, came out of the woodwork and were like, I wanna tell my story. I wanna tell my story. So We are so excited to be able to continue to share these stories, and we wanna hear from you too because as we move into the conference, we're gonna be talking to you there. As we look at other aspects, we just encourage you to reach out and talk to us and share some of the stories that you have because The more that we all can share these stories, the more that we can learn, grow, and have better transitions as we move into other Positions, other jobs, other opportunities that may present themselves to us in the years to come.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:06]: When we talk to people with transitions in both personal life and professional life, and national life, and we welcome all of those. Some of you became parents. Some of you dealt with health transitions. Some of you transitioned parts of the country. Some of you transition countries, and many of you had a lot of great advice on how other professionals can learn from your experiences in transitions. So coming this February, we'll be back with our 10th season of essay voices from the field continuing our theme of on transitions in student affairs. And, again, as Chris mentioned, if you happen to be in Seattle, we can't wait to see you. We will be bringing our many pocket recorders with us again, and we'll have questions for you to feature your voice on the show.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:52]: This has been an episode of SA voices from the field brought to you by NASPA. This show is always made possible because of you, our listeners. We are so grateful that you continue to listen to us season after season. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at sa voices at NASPA.org or or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and topic and especially your guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show, and please like, rate, and review us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us become more visible in the larger podcasting community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:32]: This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill L. Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis, guest coordination by Liu Yongru. Special thanks to the University of Michigan in Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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In this week's bonus episode of the SA Voices From the Field Podcast, host Dr. Jill Creighton engaged in a thought-provoking discussion with guest Adam Jussel, the Dean of Students at the University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee. Through their conversation, Jussel provided valuable insights into the complexities of trauma-informed care and the profound impact it can have on individuals within a university setting. This blog post aims to delve deeper into the essential topics discussed during the episode, shedding light on the challenges and strategies related to addressing stress and trauma within a campus community.

Exploring the Impact of the Pandemic on Mental Health

Adam Jussel shared compelling findings from a study conducted on mental health among university employees during the pandemic. The research revealed alarming statistics, with 36% of participants screening positive for post-traumatic stress disorder and over 40% experiencing extreme stress or near-extreme stress. This data underscores the profound impact of the pandemic on the mental well-being of university staff and faculty.

Identifying Contributing Factors and Mitigating Strategies

The study identified various factors that contributed to heightened stress and trauma, including the challenges of caregiving, social isolation, uncertainty about the future, and the lack of tools to mitigate stress. Additionally, political and civic strife in the United States emerged as a significant contributor to exacerbating trauma and stress during the pandemic. On the other hand, the study also highlighted several mitigating factors, such as the presence of a strong social support network, spending time outside, physical activity, a sense of purpose, and meaningful experiences in work.

Implementing Trauma-Informed Care Frameworks

Adam Jussel emphasized the value of trauma-informed care and highlighted the creation of a trauma-informed care toolkit and workshops for the campus community. This proactive approach aimed at providing support, understanding, and resources for individuals impacted by trauma. The utilization of the campus cares framework facilitated the elevation of the frontline and mid-level staff's experience, fostering a culture of care across the university.

The Role of Meaningful Work in Mitigating Trauma

Jussel's discussion on the concept of the meaning of work and its potential to mitigate stress and trauma sheds light on the importance of cultivating a sense of purpose within the workforce. The ongoing research on this topic holds promising implications for the development of strategies to enhance the overall well-being of individuals in the workplace. Updates on Key Events in the NASPA World: The episode also provided informative updates on notable events within the NASPA world, including an upcoming national symposium and the 2024 NASPA virtual conference. This illustrates a commitment to fostering professional development and networking opportunities within the higher education community.

Closing Thoughts

The eye-opening conversation between Dr. Jill Creighton and Adam Jussel sheds light on the compelling work being done to address stress and trauma within university settings. It underscores the importance of implementing trauma-informed care frameworks and cultivating a supportive environment for faculty, staff, and students. As we navigate the complexities of the modern world, these insights serve as a beacon of hope, guiding us towards creating inclusive and empathetic communities within educational institutions.

In conclusion, the podcast episode featuring Adam Jussel serves as a valuable resource, offering actionable insights for those involved in community support and trauma-informed care within educational environments. By acknowledging the challenges and opportunities in this space, we can collectively work towards creating nurturing and resilient communities.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 9 on transitions in student affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, And I'm Dr. Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Adam, welcome to the show.

Adam Jussel [00:00:24]: Hey. Hey. Thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:26]: I'm glad to see you again. For our listeners, Adam and I, like many of our guests, have known each other in the field for what feels like Not a short time anymore.

Adam Jussel [00:00:36]: Long time. Not a long time. Yeah. But we were very, very briefly colleagues at Washington State way back in the day. I think probably feels like a past life for both of us at this point.

Adam Jussel [00:00:45]: Lots of gray hairs between, then and now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:48]: Well, Adam, you're currently at the University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee. We always love to start to get to know our guests by asking you, how did you get to your current seat?

Adam Jussel [00:00:56]: Thank you for asking. A lot of people ask someone from the Pacific Northwest ends up in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and it's totally by Both random set of circumstance and the profession. And so was it in the assistant dean of students role, director of student conduct at Washington State University, He was looking for a change, looking to move. I we joke that we wanted to be within at least a 20 minute drive of a Trader Joe's, and so looking for a little thing that was a little more Urban, public Washington, as you well know, not exactly the bustling city environment, so we wanted to try something new. And we're We're looking around the country really just to make a move, and UWM fit the bill both because of its access mission, and it is a research one institution. I have been in this role for a little over 4 years, and I am the dean of students and associate vice chancellor of student affairs.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:46]: So I like to Say that, you know, for me, civilization, as I learned in Pullman, was having an airport, a Target, and a Chipotle. I didn't know that about myself until I moved there. But as I was there, There was a Chipotle that opened right before the pandemic started, and then a Target came in, like, a year later. And they're getting a new airport, like, this month. So

Adam Jussel [00:02:06]: Wonderful place. Still have lots of friends there. Met my now partner there, and and WSU is a great place to live and work for nearly 10 years. So, yeah, that Pullman, Washington. Go check it out if you haven't.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:17]: Well, if you're not checking out the police, you should also check out Adam's research, and that's really what we're gonna be talking with Adam today. You spent a lot of the pandemic focusing on trauma informed care, and that's really a core ethos for what you're doing in the DOS role At University of Wisconsin Milwaukee, for those of you who wanna go dive a little deeper, you can check out the trauma informed toolkit on the Dean of Students website for University of Wisconsin Milwaukee. But, also, Adam, you have a new article out with some coauthors that I'm excited to dig into today. This article can be found in psychological trauma theory research practice and policy journal, and it's coauthored by Elaine Goldstein, Dimitri Topotaz, and Roger Brown. Title of the article is mental health among university employees during the COVID nineteen pandemic, the role of previous life trauma and current post traumatic stress symptoms, which is a very, very long title. I know a lot of our listeners are like, are we done talking about the pandemic? But I think this is actually a really important topic as we transition into a post pandemic era for higher education for our students and for the field. So why don't you go ahead and break down on what this means in really simple terms. Start.

Adam Jussel [00:03:26]: Thanks for the opening. Was really blessed to work on this research and continuing to work on this research, with those great colleagues, Dimitri, University of Wisconsin Milwaukee. And during the early phases of the pandemic, We had, like, a lot of campuses, really robust emergency operation command tactical response To what our students, faculty, and staff were experiencing as it relates to the pandemic. So we had testing protocols, and we had isolation and quarantine Processes. We had testing centers and then ultimately vaccination clinics. All of these kind of very operational pieces, but one element that was missing was, It may seem cliche to say, but it was the heart. You know, what were the psychosocial emotional experiences of our students? And really what this research digs into is the staff and We attempted to frame this work as the campus is an ecosystem. We can't care for our students unless we are carried for ourselves.

Adam Jussel [00:04:23]: At least that's That's the way I kind of approached it. So the impetus for this work and the trauma informed care approach was under the hypothesis that we know that these jobs were stressful pre pandemic. Anybody listening to the student affairs focused podcast has moments where they said, hey, gosh. This job is so stressful. I feel like I'm burnt out. I feel like I'm Front line interacting with some really heavy stuff. And that the pandemic, at least we debated that. So we wanted to dig into the anecdotal experiences that folks were telling us about and really see what the research bore out using primarily, at least initially survey data.

Adam Jussel [00:04:59]: That was kind of the genesis of this of this project.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:02]: I think you make some really important points. We saw the mass exodus from the field post pandemic, with the great resignation, it deeply affected all industries and certainly student affairs. And anecdotally, one of the things we heard is the field asks Too much of people for not enough compensation. That's a constant theme, in student affairs. And so tell us about how your research really shown a light on how our profession was reacting. And I think one of the things that I appreciate about your article as well is that it really broke it down by identifiable factors curves of who you are in the profession and how it affected you differently.

Adam Jussel [00:05:37]: Yeah. So for folks that ultimately direct people to read the article, but just kind of a cliff notes is We had nearly 650 recipients, 636 participants in our survey. Those scaffold across divisions, departments, Anywhere in the institution, but was focused only on staff and faculty because we really wanted to hone in on that experience. And of those 636 participants, a large amount, 36%. We use a post traumatic stress disorder screening tool. It's a metric that we use. 36% produced a positive post traumatic stress disorder screen As it related to pandemic related impacts. And so that doesn't mean that they have post traumatic stress disorder.

Adam Jussel [00:06:14]: It just simply means that a screening tool identified them. There would be follow-up from A clinician or someone in the field to identify that and hone further, but that number was staggering to us. 36% is a high number. What illuminated it further was that over 40% experienced extreme stress or near extreme stress, so that's not your stress and trauma are different things. And we use that data To paint a picture to campus leadership, to the community members of what has the experience been, what can we use data to inform practices and principles. And And it really was a catalyst to all of us on campus of we need to care for people that are serving our students. So there's some really interesting mitigating factors that we found as well and and other risk factors that I could dive into if it's interesting. But this first element was just identifying awareness around the problem.

Adam Jussel [00:07:06]: What are the issues we're facing, and what are those challenges? I

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:08]: think that would be great if you can talk more about what are those mitigating and aggravating factors for predictors of stress.

Adam Jussel [00:07:15]: Yeah. And don't let me go down a rabbit hole on on this too much, but the risk factors so being a caregiver was a risk factor for a positive post traumatic stress disorder screen. Caregiver is broader than just parent or guardian. So we have staff and faculty that have, obviously, their parents or guardians, but we also have staff and faculty that Have a loved one in their home that they're they're caring for, so caregiving was a risk factor. Social isolation, all of us experienced Some level of social isolation in the pandemic. And one of the tragedies of the pandemic, and other folks have said this in various different ways, is that It attacks the number 1 mitigator for trauma experiencing trauma, which is a strong social support network. And not having that mechanism at place, I think a lot of us experience, at least it's born out in our data, that that social isolation was a really a key factor for exacerbating stress and possibly trauma. The other thing that, was interesting was The uncertainty of the future.

Adam Jussel [00:08:08]: When we've provided some trauma informed care workshops to students, 1 student stood out to me and said, if I knew that this would end on a certain date, If I could if you could tell me 6 months from now, pandemic over, pick a date, December, whatever, the students said I could bear that. I could understand that there's a finish line. I could Stack goals around that, but the uncertainty and kind of the wave of uncertainty was an exacerbating factor and a risk factor.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:31]: So I've been working in China for the last 2 years or so. And that was a real thing here because the pandemic controls and mechanisms that we all face were very different than what was happening in the west. And then our students and our faculty and staff were going through 3 to 7 COVID tests, a week depending on what was going on. And then, you know, there were points where our faculty and staff were locked on the campus with our students and didn't leave for 2 or 3 months. And that environment is the exact Same messaging where, you know, if we knew that, you know, we had to do this for 60 days, we could mark our time. We could set goals. We could mentally prepare for what that's like. But when that endpoint doesn't exist.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:11]: It really creates a sense of dread and a little bit of doom.

Adam Jussel [00:09:15]: Yeah. Your experience, I appreciate you sharing that is A ton of follow-up questions, of course, of of that experience as it relates to this. But one thing I heard there was, hey. The tools that we have at our disposal to mitigate this might diminished, which is I can't see family and friends. I can't go for a walk outside. Maybe there are instances where that was possible, maybe not, but I can't go to the gym. I can't you know, there's all kinds of things that were eliminated by virtue of the pandemic, and it sounds like not so dissimilar in in your experience, but probably very dissimilar very, December at the same time.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:49]: Well, and to be fair, I was not one of the team members that was on campus in the lockdown, but my staff was. I mean, that's because I I wasn't here yet during kind of that deepest period of time. But I hear from a lot of them too that, you know, it was just things like, I would really love a piece of fresh fruit, And that would that simple piece of health care would have been really, really mitigating for them. So I'd love to hear more about what those mitigating factors were.

Adam Jussel [00:10:14]: Thanks for sharing that and asking. So the mitigating factors I already named one was the strong social support network. On the network of care, feeling like there are places and People you can turn to for help and support that you're not alone. Really big factors when someone is experiencing trauma or stress. Time outside, So being outside in nature and time with pets was significant. I would say time outside with pets is probably doubly good, but those were some massive Mitigating factors at least at a high level, and then you can dive in further in the research and literature and being physically active, having a purpose in life, Which really connects to the additional research we're doing currently, which is just having a meaningful experience in your work environment, What we call making meaning, does that is that a mitigator to stress and trauma? There's all kinds of research on the value of having a vision and a purpose, An identity bigger than yourself, and we're trying to connect it to the trauma field a little bit. And we're using a mixed method study to do that, and it's It's really fascinating what people are saying in our focus groups, and that's exciting work that I can talk about as well if you'd like me to.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:18]: Someone asked a question about your research design, especially for any of our listeners who are pursuing their own Dr.ates. This is a time where you're trying to measure trauma and stress where the pandemic was not the only trauma and stressor serve for a US audience. It was a a wild time to be a person in the United States from

Adam Jussel [00:11:34]: Yes. Yep.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:36]: Regardless of where you are on Any particular political spectrum, that was a wild time. It kinda still is a wild time. I just I don't feel it as much because I'm not there on a daily basis right now. But how did you tease apart as researchers the difference between the impact from COVID nineteen and the other influencing factors in the world?

Adam Jussel [00:11:55]: Yeah. In the study, we know that the political and civic strife that was being experienced by a lot of folks in the United States, regardless of what political affiliation that a person had actually were exacerbating factors as it related to trauma and stresses really in the pandemic. And the way that we separated out in the in the studies, we actually, you know, Segmented out of the questions, and then we're very specific about the questions that we asked that were related to the pandemic versus the questions we had about Ancillary things, including that civic and political strike. But we do note in there that other factors were definitely at play, and and we know this just from our personal experiences that You can't really isolate an individual and say, well, what about this is one thing that is stressor? We we are meaning making machines that come in, and we bring our holistic experience. And reflected in our data too is that folks that had other health and financial stressors, other you know, I already said financial stressors, but That there were certain instances that no combination of mitigating factors could protect them against the negative implications of the pandemic, Which means that sometimes for the individuals that participated in the study, it was just too much, and there was nothing that they could have done without intense professional care. I can't. And this is something we're very careful about. I could tell someone to go walk their dog 6,000 times, and if they have experienced a level of stress and potentially trauma, though, those Tools, at least in our data, weren't weren't helpful.

Adam Jussel [00:13:18]: So, yes, it's good to acknowledge the context in which we participated in the study.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:22]: Well, and sometimes not just Not helpful to suggest some of these more surface level components of care, but also could be seen as Literally uncaring as a leader of an organization or not just seen as, but could be literally uncaring because there's a big difference between, you know, the collective stress and collective trauma we were all going through that was abnormal from our daily lives compared with people that already had their plates very, very full. And then at that Age old meme where it's like, oh, you're experiencing a difficult work environment? Well, let's have a pizza party. That's not what we need to solve of some of these big issues. And one of the things that I appreciate about your work, as I mentioned, is that this kind of all resulted from a practice perspective in a trauma informed toolkit. So let's talk about that a little bit because I know that's really geared towards a lot of student work, but it applies deeply to your faculty and staff populations as well. So how did you operationalize the findings of the study to try to create more community care.

Adam Jussel [00:14:23]: One of the cool parts about participating in this, and I this is the 1st article that I've ever been. For those who don't know, I have a JD. You do not have to produce Research as part of your JD. Some people do. So it's the 1st academic study I've been I've been a part of, which was really exciting. And one thing that I really, with My colleagues tried to focus on is we can't wait till this is published to produce and care for our campus community because as You know publishing takes a long time, so the trauma informed care toolkit and related workshops were created actually prior to us Publishing anything and actually diving into our research because the trauma informed care principles, at least as we saw it, were somewhat evergreen. There's things that we could do to make that a reality. And then once we published our research, we use that to inform our workshops and continue to hone those toolkits.

Adam Jussel [00:15:13]: So the real bellwether or the real, I would say, the workshops themselves were the 1st program we really rolled out, and those were geared towards Faculty and staff. They were trying to do 2 different things. They were first trying to say, here's our students' experience, and here's how you care for those students. And, also, what we realized midstream is, oh, this is cathartic for the faculty and staff that are coming into this face as well because they're feeling validated by their experience. They're feeling empowered, and they're feeling like they're connected to other people. This is this kind of shared social experience. And teams were totally volunteer. We just put them in, like, newsletters and said, hey, folks.

Adam Jussel [00:15:50]: If you're interested in this and in the year and a half that we launched, From when we launched there, when we concluded them, we did over a 150 of these across campus. And for someone that does mandatory training of folks Here on our campus, doing a 150 workshops is intense over a year and a half, but it also reflected the kind of scope and scale of the problem because I'm getting that level of interest in a voluntary program that's not being forced upon anybody. We had to chase that. There was something there. And the toolkits themselves were really about building capacity across campus understanding that I'm not an expert on the classroom dynamics in a faculty member's classroom, but I can give the the parameters Or how would you make your classroom trauma informed? And I hesitate to even say trauma informed because that's somewhat cliche at this point in time, and I think it's got some it might carry some baggage for folks. Oh, really, what it is is how do I create a classroom that's reciprocal and empowering and caring? So those toolkits are we're actually in another revision of them right now, but those toolkits in the workshop are based in Principles that even if we didn't have a pandemic would be good exercises and practices for folks in their workplace and that and the classroom.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:57]: Let's define trauma informed in this case. As you mentioned, it is kind of a buzzword in higher education at this point, and, some people operationalize it differently. How are you using the term?

Adam Jussel [00:17:08]: Definition of trauma that we use is adopted by the Substance Abuse Mental Health Services association. And it's an event or series events that is experienced by an individual as physically or emotionally harmful or life Threatening with lasting adverse effects on the individual's functioning and mental, physical, social, emotional, or spiritual well-being. And the reason we like this definition is that it's it's more holistic than other definitions offered. It it talks about the entirety of the person's experience, But it also distinguishes between physical trauma, so someone that is experiencing physical harm or witnessing physical harm versus The impacts of something that may be systemic and long term like the pandemic. So there's other definitions of trauma that really focus on An acute single incident like a type one trauma. This broader definition from SAMHSA is broader and would take into context things that just happen over time, little cuts that happen over time. So trauma informed care takes that into consideration and asks the question, what do we how do we frame our workplace and our classroom In a way that acknowledges that someone may be experiencing in that space a significant amount of trauma or stress.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:19]: And looking at all of this, You've gone through the research process. You've gone through the workshop process. You're now in revisions. What's the pro tip that you can provide. What's the nugget for SA pros who are listening and going, oh, my campus needs this, or especially The other SSAOs going, how do I adopt this and and make it meaningful for my campus?

Adam Jussel [00:18:40]: 1st, I would say the pro tip is Understand that you're seen and that this work is valuable in the sense that it lets folks know that, hey. These jobs are challenging. Anybody in the field that is aware of how they experience the pandemic and the work that they were doing, that this highlights that and actually paints a picture that allows for a certain level of advocacy on your campus. So I think Pointing to it and saying, hey. And I know there's a bunch of data now that reflects this, but this isn't just my feelings. This is actually an experience that is validated by by research. That's my I guess, more of an academic response. My gut response is any parts of this work can be applied to any campus.

Adam Jussel [00:19:20]: And one thing that we've really learned, the framework we've applied is this campus cares framework, which is a fancy term for a program here on campus that's Grassroots, it's voluntary, but it is holistic. So instead of thinking about how do we just care for the students, how How do we make sure they have adequate resources, that they have counseling, that they have food pantry, that they have case management, that they have an emergency grant? This takes into consideration the first thing I said at the beginning, which is we can't do those things well unless we are part of that ecosystem. System. And so this campus CARES work has students, faculty, and staff from across campus. It's not a top down directive, so it's not something that we got From senior leadership that would just kind of just groundswell during the pandemic. It's that heart I was telling you about. And so my nugget here is that find the people on your campus, Students, faculty, and staff that embody this type of work, this type of care, put them in a room together and say, what does it mean to care for our campus, How do we do that? And it might mean something different to y'all, but it would likely mean something different to y'all than it does to us. But we did that in the early stages of this campus Cares framework.

Adam Jussel [00:20:25]: We got a bunch of people in the room, and they said, what does it mean to be empathetic and caring in the face of a global pandemic? And all of the tools that we got out of it, the tool kits And the the workshops and the meditation spaces that we have on campus and the communications and storytelling are all grounded in that empathy, Empowerment and care, and I think that can be applied anywhere.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:46]: How has all of this effort changed your campus?

Adam Jussel [00:20:49]: I can speak, and, obviously, I'm biased here, but I think it has elevated the experience of folks that would be considered either frontline or mid level staff to campus leadership in the community. So not to say that anybody had negative opinions of the campus prior to The pandemic. But I don't think they were generally aware of the level of stress that folks were experiencing in the pandemic and had experienced prior to the For me, personally, it has connected me directly, and I think connected everybody within the Campus Cares group to the extent that I can speak for all of them with those people that genuinely care about UWM and its students. And when you put that type of energy into a space, I think it catalyzes a lot of change and good, but also just makes me feel personally like I enjoy going to parts of work that I'm doing that because it's a bunch of people that are on the same team, so to speak. So I think it's changed, and we are really focused now on how do we keep this momentum going? How do we now that we're in this late in stages of the pandemic, and how do we scale this culture of care across campus. So that's the tougher problem, and I don't actually think we ever accomplished that. I think that's a thing that we will continue to do forever, but we've had some great conversations about what that actually means while we're doing this other practical work.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:05]: The scaling question is always interesting when you're at such a large institution. Right? When you're at a small liberal arts university, the scaling question is as much simpler just because there are physically less people. But the common core of an institution, like in our one size, that's a very, very different beast.

Adam Jussel [00:22:22]: Yeah. One of the things that I value professionally is just kind of meeting the hard challenges of doing it with kind of an open mind and curiosity, and This has definitely opened my aperture quite a bit on how we can do that and how big the issues are, and that is not just a checkbox. You can't just flip a giant switch somewhere and say, okay. Now we're good. So this will be something that will continue on, I think, hopefully, for a good long while here at UWM and at other places.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:46]: I'm gonna shift gears with you just a moment because we are in our bonus episode in between seasons 9 and 10, both of which are on the theme of transitions. So So I just briefly wanna touch on how does someone go from obtaining a law degree to being in student affairs full time?

Adam Jussel [00:23:01]: It's a common question that I get. And the real answer is is that I cut my teeth in university housing. I was an RA for 3 years in college. And when I was leaving college and I decided to go to law school. I actually picked my law school, Seattle University, in part because I was fortunate To have the opportunity to work in housing, university housing while I was in law school, which on its face for anybody that's gone to law school, it's how do you go to law school and work in a residence all at the same time. I actually think it helped me quite a bit because, one, it created so much more structure around my life. And 2, it was people outside of the law school that I connected with, and I'm still colleagues and friends with. They really didn't care what I was doing in the law school.

Adam Jussel [00:23:43]: They cared about me as a human, and So remove kind of that that stressor. They were great friends and kind of a mitigator distress. And when I left law school, I had this existential crisis of, I'm still liking this housing stuff. I'm still learning a lot, and I went and took the bar, and I thought, well, I guess I go practice law now. Right? I I worked at a firm for a while, and then I actually made the transition to the attorney general's office, which was represented all the institutions of higher education in the state of Washington and was an assistant attorney general actually representing Washington State University. I did that for a couple years, and I was still having that kind of, I wanna be on the other side. I Wanna be in the administration. The kind of natural inroad for a lot of people at that point in time with a JD was into the conduct space.

Adam Jussel [00:24:26]: So I made the big move over the administration and did student conduct for what feels like an eternity, but it was 7, 8 years over at WSU and then since made this transition over here, and and I couldn't be more. I tell this to people all the time, and maybe it's my experience my previous experience is that while these jobs are stressful and They're very challenging, and I'm faced with challenges every day. The fact that I get to work on a college campus still is like I, like, pinch myself. Just the fact that I could walk onto our mall in the middle of a busy weekday and just be amongst 18, 19, 20 year olds and UWM students. It's just a it's a blessing. So that's how I made that transition. It's a long story, but I'm fortunate to have all those opportunities and people nudging me to do that along the way.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:08]: Thank you for sharing that. I really appreciate the complexity of that, but also the simplicity of I was an RA first. That seems to be such, you know, a common student affairs journey.

Adam Jussel [00:25:17]: I like to tell folks, I think once you do the ResLifer thing, you're a ResLifer at heart for a long time, and I don't think I've ever turned away from that. So that's my origin story as it were.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:27]: Is there anything else that you wanna share with our listeners?

Adam Jussel [00:25:30]: I know I mentioned earlier the the the concept of meaning of work and and potentially how That could be a mitigator to, stress and and perhaps trauma. And really wanna note that our focus groups that we did in the spring, we did 4 of them. They were meant to expand on the initial survey instrument I noted earlier, building on that quantitative research And now using qualitative research in a mixed method study and sequentially and hopefully explanatory, we wanted to determine what factors and processes Would promote increased meaning of work, noting that the positive effects we saw through that could have helped with stress. There's a bevy of research out there about the positive impacts of having a a vision or a larger mission, but also want to explore how could that potentially decrease stress or at least be a protective factor. What we've just anecdotally, what we've seen so far is that the the work is hard and people really identify with that, and I've explained the statistics that are relating to that. But when it's Directly connected to a larger purpose or mission or community, it could be more motivating and, in fact, meaningful. And What we've also found is that the focus on the well-being of others, which is a core element of the campus cares initiative I mentioned, that can bring satisfaction in and out of work. And maybe This isn't particularly novel, but can actually reduce stress for folks as having that broader connection and that broader sense of purpose.

Adam Jussel [00:26:55]: So I think that we'd be remiss without sharing that there is additional research being done there and and hopefully continue to imbue that work Within the campus cares initiative that we have on campus.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:06]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:12]: Thanks, Jill. Really excited to be back again in the NASPA world, and there's a lot happening in NASPA. The NASPA annual conference is coming up March 9th through 13th in Seattle, Washington, and I hope that you will be able to join us. If you are going to join us, I know that we've mentioned this before, but we'll be going around asking questions, looking for your answers to have your voice be a part of a future episode. So watch out for me with my recorder or Jill with her recorder, and we'll be looking to capture your voice. At the NASPA annual conference, the opening and closing keynote speakers have just been announced recently. Dr. Sian Proctor and Alejandra Campa Verdi will be joining as opening and keynote speakers. The opening keynote is Dr. Sion Proctor Who is a geoscientist, explorer, space artist, and astronaut.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:08]: Dr. Sian Proctor is a geoscience professor at the Maricopa Community Colleges, An Afrofuturism artist and an astronaut. She is the chief inspiration astronaut of Space to Inspire and founder of the Procter Foundation For Art and Science. She was the mission pilot for SpaceX inspiration for the first all civilian Orbital mission. And our closing keynote speaker is Alejandra Campaverde. Alejandra Campaverde is a nationally recognized women's Health advocate, best selling author, founder, producer, and former White House aid to president Obama. Alejandra's memoir, First Gen, Examines the emotional toll of social mobility on first and only for those who are first generation in their families to cross a threshold. On February 2, 2024, on Zoom will be the 7th annual 1st generation graduate student symposium. Join the Boston University Newberry Center, Duke University first generation graduate student network, and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, Carolina grad students grad student firsts, along with our cooperating sponsor, the Center For First Generation Student Success, For our 7th annual symposium for graduate and professional students on February 2, 2024.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:28]: This national symposium is open to any student who identifies as a 1st generation graduate or professional student and is studying any discipline. The keynote speaker for this event is Angela Bautista, A proud 1st generation student learner, educator, speaker, facilitator, coach, and diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging consultant. There's There's also gonna be a number of opportunities for you to network with other 1st generation graduate and professional students at institutions across the country, workshop sessions, and more. The event is on February 2nd and runs from from 1 EST to 5 PM EST. From June 23rd to 26 in Portland, Oregon Will be the 2024 NASPA m Ben Hogan Small Colleges and Universities Institute. This event is hosted on a biannual basis by By NASPA's Small Colleges and Universities division, the NASPA M. Ben Hogan Small Colleges and University Institute is a 4 day residential program During which vice presidents for student affairs and the equivalent and other senior level administrators engage in discussion and reflection about critical issues in student affairs and examine effective and innovative programs. Participation in this institute is limited to the highest Ranking student affairs officer on campus and other senior level administrators who report to the highest ranking student affairs officer and have substantial responsibility for divisional leadership.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:52]: The registration fee for this program includes housing and most meals and is an amazing experience To bring you together with other small colleges and university leaders. Find out more on the NASPA website. I mentioned the NASPA NASPA annual conference coming up In March, if you are unable to join the NASPA conference, we also have another great opportunity, which is the 2024 virtual conference, which will happen on April 2nd through 5, 2024. The 2024 NASPA virtual Conference is a 4 day interactive educational experience for student affairs professionals and partners where we will engage in high quality content centered around individual and team growth. There will be multiple educational sessions, including 8 extended learning workshops. Teams can participate in their personal and professional development through the live event and on demand. The best part of this is that if you register, All sessions will be available on demand for 365 days. So it's a great opportunity for your teams at your institutions to be able to access professional development over a long period.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:04]: If you haven't checked this out yet, I highly encourage you to go to the NASPA website to check it out, Learn more and find out how you can be involved with your team at your own institution. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within in the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening And allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And For all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers We're at the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself Where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you To be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey. I see myself In that knowledge community, I see myself doing something like that or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to Think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, Your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:40]: Chris, thank you so much for this bonus NASPA world segment. We've got a lot coming up. I know annual conference is just around the corner at this point in time. We hope to see a lot of you in Seattle. Adam, we are now at our lightning round. I have 7 questions for you in 90 seconds. You ready to go?

Adam Jussel [00:33:57]: Okay. Hippie, let's do it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:59]: Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Adam Jussel [00:34:03]: Jitterbug.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:04]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Adam Jussel [00:34:07]: A pilot.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:08]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Adam Jussel [00:34:12]: Ken Wayne. He He was a professor at Seattle University.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:14]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Adam Jussel [00:34:17]: Reframing campus conflict.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:19]: Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic.

Adam Jussel [00:34:22]: We rewatched parks and rec the entirety of it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:25]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Adam Jussel [00:34:29]: On chair expert.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:30]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Adam Jussel [00:34:34]: Thanks, Jill, for the great question and for the opportunity to offer some shout outs. Obviously, I'm super grateful for all the people that have supported and influenced me along the way and try to share that gratitude when I can. Starting just With my time at Cal Lutheran and my 1st supervisors in residence life, Sally Lawrenson and Nate Fall, and then Danielle Hess And Adam Malcolm at the AG's office at WSU just taking a chance on me and allowing for that big transition that I noted earlier. And then, of course, my team at at UWM, including Becky Career, Abby Meadow, Ben Minogue, and Sarah Edmonson, even though Sarah has left us for another institution. Just super grateful for team here could not do it without them. And then, obviously, my professional career started at WSU, and I would be remiss without giving a shout out to them, including Karen Fisher, Melinda Husky, Karen Metzner, and Christina McGillfry, and just the entire Dida students team over there. I know they're doing great work. And then finally, just 2 mentors, Bill Stackman and Carrie Petter who answer all my weird questions every once in a while about my own growth in the career, and It's super helpful and just, again, very grateful for all these folks.

Adam Jussel [00:35:45]: So shout outs to everybody.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:46]: Well, Adam, it's been a pleasure to reconnect with you today. If others would like to connect with you after the show. How can they find you?

Adam Jussel [00:35:52]: You can email me, which is just jussell@uwm.edu, or my Instagram account is at Dean Dob Jessel.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:59]: Adam, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Adam Jussel [00:36:02]: Thank you, Jill. Take care, everybody.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:05]: This has been an episode of SA voices from the field brought to you by NASPA. This show is always made possible because of you, our listeners. We are so grateful that you continue to listen to us season after season. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at essay voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill Creighton. We welcome your feedback and topic and especially your guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show, and Please like, rate, and review us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and and helps us become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill l Creighton., That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Guest coordination by Lu Yongru. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

View Details

In this week's episode of SA Voices From the Field, we bring you Dr. Lori White, the 21st president of DePauw University, to share her inspiring journey and valuable insights into higher education leadership. From her early years in student affairs to her groundbreaking role as a college president, Dr. White's story offers a roadmap for aspiring leaders and underscores the importance of mentorship, strategic decision-making, and student-centered leadership.

The Path to Presidency

Dr. White's journey to the presidency of DePauw University began with her undergraduate work at UC Berkeley, where she discovered her passion for student affairs at the University of California Irvine. This passion led her to a 40-year career in higher education, marked by a progression through various roles in student affairs and prolific authorship. Her commitment to promoting student access, equity, and success later propelled her to the presidency of DePauw University, where she saw an opportunity to shape university policies and influence.

The Role of Mentors

One key aspect of Dr. White's journey is the pivotal role of mentors in guiding her leadership path. Encouraged by mentors and colleagues to consider applying for a presidency, she was eventually nominated for the position by a fellow woman president. This underscores the profound impact of mentorship in shaping the careers of aspiring leaders and the importance of building a supportive network within the higher education community.

The Transition and Challenges

Stepping into the role of president amidst the COVID-19 pandemic presented unique challenges for Dr. White. She emphasized the need for immediate decision-making and virtual relationship-building, highlighting the dynamic nature of leadership in higher education and the adaptability required to navigate unforeseen obstacles.

Empowering Student Affairs Professionals

Dr. White's emphasis on the skills and experiences gained in student affairs sheds light on the breadth of responsibilities, ranging from working with academic affairs to managing business aspects, dealing with crises, engaging with alumni, and contributing to scholarly work and research. This insight demystifies the day-to-day responsibilities of a college president and underscores the scholarly aspects of student affairs professionals.

Involving Stakeholders in Decision-Making

Dr. White's advocacy for involving professionals at all levels in strategic planning underscores the importance of empowering emerging professionals to offer ideas and participate in decision-making processes. Additionally, her dedication to ensuring that student voices are heard through meaningful engagement with the student body president reflects a commitment to student-centered leadership and the value of seeking input from all stakeholders.

NASPA Opportunities

The episode also featured valuable updates and opportunities at the upcoming NASPA 2024 conference, including pre-conference events tailored for community college professionals, international student services practitioners, and undergraduate students. The conference aims to support the development of student affairs professionals and offers various short courses on relevant topics.

Dr. Lori White's insights from her remarkable journey to the college presidency offer valuable lessons for leaders, emerging professionals, and students alike. Her emphasis on mentorship, strategic decision-making, and student-centered leadership serves as a guiding beacon for those navigating the complex landscape of higher education. Aspiring leaders can draw inspiration from Dr. White's journey, recognizing the transformative power of mentorship and the profound impact of inclusive, student-focused leadership in shaping the future of higher education.

By embracing the principles and insights shared by Dr. White, the next generation of leaders can continue to drive positive change and progress within the realm of student affairs and higher education.

Please subscribe to SA Voices from the Field on your favorite podcasting device and share the podcast with other student affairs colleagues!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]:

Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 9 on transitions in student affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, And I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She, her, hers, your SA voices from the field host. Welcome back to another episode of SA Voices from the Field. This is our season finale of season 9 on transitions in student affairs, and I cannot think of a better human being to help us close out this season than Dr. Lori S. White. Dr. White was appointed the 21st president of DePauw University on March 4, 2020, and began her term on July 1, 2020. Prior, she was the vice chancellor for student affairs and a professor of practice at Washington UNiversity in Saint Louis. At DePauw, she also holds the rank of professor of education, and she's the 1st woman and the first person of color to serve as DePauw's president.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:58]:

Dr. White has spent 40 years working in higher education. Prior to her arrival at Washington university. She served as the VP for student affairs and clinical professor of education at Southern Methodist University and also held posts at the University of Southern California, Stanford, Georgetown, San Diego State, and the University of California, Irvine. Active nationally in several higher education organizations, Since Dr. White has served on the board of directors for the Association For Sustainability in Higher Education and for NASPA's Foundation from team to 2017. In 2009, she was named a pillar of the profession by NASPA. She's currently serving on the Association of Governing Boards Council of Presidents and is a member of the Bipartisan and Policy Center's academic leaders task force on campus free expression. Dr. White is one of 5 founding college presidents of the liberal arts colleges racial equity leadership alliance. Dr. White's areas of emphasis in research and teaching include the student experience in higher ed and the preparation of mentorship for new mid-level and aspiring senior student affairs professionals.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:55]:

She's the author of a number of articles and book chapters and has presented widely at professional meetings, including NASPA. Her most recent publications appear in a coedited volume called Transformational Encounters, shaping diverse college and university leaders, and another titled Keep Calm and Call the Dean of Students, a guide to understanding the many facets of the Dean of Students' role. Born and raised in San Francisco, Dr. White earned her undergraduate degree in psychology and English from the University of California, Berkeley and a Ph.D. from Stanford University in administration and policy analysis with emphasis on higher education. She also participated in Harvard University's management leadership in education program. Dr. White and her husband, Anthony Tillman, are both career educators with a deep passion and commitment to student access, equity, and success. Lori, we are so excited to have you on SA Voices today.

Dr. Lori White [00:02:41]:

So excited, Jill. Thank you for the invitation.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:44]:

And you've been such a staple of the student affairs profession, a stalwart, or if you will, having been a NASPA board chair, a pillar of the profession, and you've actually kind of left the field, kind of not left the field after many, many years, currently sitting in the seat as president at DePauw University, and we love to start all of our interviews by asking our guests, how did you get to your current seat.

Dr. Lori White [00:03:07]:

I appreciate you saying that I left the field of student affairs. I don't think anyone really ever leaves the field of student affairs, But I did transition to becoming the President of DePauw University in 2020. And I never imagined that I would be a college president, Jill. And part of the reason, I think, is that it's hard to imagine what you don't see. I identify as an African American, a cisgender female, and there are not that many females who are presidents of colleges and universities. There are not that many African Americans that are Presidents of colleges and universities, and so you can deduce from that there are not that many African American females that are Presidents of colleges and universities.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:52]:

No kidding. Not enough people who are marginalized or from marginalized backgrounds in those seats.

Dr. Lori White [00:03:56]:

I was going to say that it really took mentors who encouraged me to think beyond what I had been doing, and I loved being a Vice President for student affairs and would have been happy to retire as a vice president for student affairs. But as you and I know, sometimes those who mentor us, encourage us to think beyond what we're doing currently and aspire to do something else.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:22]:

That's for sure, especially our best mentors. Now, Lori, you had a prolific career up through the vice presidency of student affairs. Would you mind taking us through your journey from a new professional to VPSA?

Dr. Lori White [00:04:32]:

Sure. I did my undergraduate work at UC Berkeley, and the reason that I'm starting there is I'm now president of a liberal arts college. And I think if I had known that liberal arts colleges existed, that would have been a better fit for me. UC Berkeley gave me a great academic education, but I was lost in a sea of 30,000-plus students, And I never did any of the things that we always advise our students to do. Right? I never went to a faculty member's office hours. I didn't connect with all of the resources that I now know were available to me at UC Berkeley. And so when I graduated With my degree in English and psychology, I really wasn't sure what I was going to do. And it was my dad, who is a professor at the University of California, Irvine, who suggested that I think about working on a college campus.

Dr. Lori White [00:05:27]:

So perhaps unlike you, Jill, or folks in the generation that followed me, Who, you know, you might have been an orientation leader, or you worked in student activities, and then somebody taps you on the shoulder and said, you can do this for the rest of your life. I didn't have that experience, but it was my dad who said, try this out. I think this will be a great fit for what I know about what you love. And sure enough, I got my 1st job at the University of California Irvine. I fell in love with student affairs once I discovered who those people were, And I saw the work that they were doing to mentor, support, and advise students. And I knew if I'd had somebody like that working with me when I was an undergraduate, my experience would have been different. And so, you know, 40-something years later, I'm still working in higher education, 10 years at UC Irvine, doing a number of things. Probably most impactful was being the director of the cross-cultural center at UC Irvine, One of the very first cross-cultural, multicultural centers in the state, probably in the country.

Dr. Lori White [00:06:34]:

After that, I went back to graduate school. I quit my full-time job, made the best decision ever in my life, became a full-time graduate student, and got my Ph.D. at Stanford University. And then after that, I've done what, most of my colleagues have done, started moving my way up the student affairs ladder, worked at Georgetown University, At San Diego State University, back at Stanford, also at the University of Southern California, got my 1st vice President's position at Southern Methodist University. I was the VP there for eight years, and then I was the vice president or vice chancellor for student affairs at Washington University in Saint Louis for five years before I became president of DePauw.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:18]:

And you're also quite a prolific author. So, if you've Probably read Lori's work, maybe without knowing it, but I think the highlight for me is, keep calm and call the dean of students. That's a critical one.

Dr. Lori White [00:07:29]:

Yes. I love the title. Love the title.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:32]:

Absolutely. Lori, when you and I ran into each other, I think it was Boston for NASPA this last go around. While we were standing there together, I asked you if you love being a President compared to being a VPSA. And I recall you saying to me, it stuck with me: I loved being a VPSA, but I feel called to do the work of being the President. Can you talk to us about that transition from being the person leading the student affairs experience, which is really the, you know, the head experience officer for a university, to be in that position of figurehead, fundraiser, policymaker, influencer?

Dr. Lori White [00:08:12]:

The first question you asked me was, Why did I decide to be a college president?

Dr. Lori White [00:08:19]:

And so it aligns with my response to your Question. And you have a great memory because that's exactly what I said. I love being a vice president for student affairs and feel called to serve as a college president. When I visited DePauw University, I was discerning whether I would say yes if I got the job offer. I was in this space on my campus where the portraits of all of the previous presidents hang. I am president number 21. And as I looked around that room, and I saw the portraits of Presidents 1 through 20, none of whom looked like me, Literally, a voice from above said, they're gonna offer you that job. And when they do, you need to say yes.

Dr. Lori White [00:09:04]:

It's not about you, Lori. It's what you represent for future generations. Future generations need to know that it's possible for somebody who looks like you to be president of DePauw University. And so that is why I felt called to serve. I also realized within my 1st couple of days on the job that even though, as I tell people, I was scared to death on my 1st day of the overwhelming responsibility of being a college president, I sometimes walk out of my office, and I look around, and I think to myself, o m g. I'm responsible for all of this. Right? So, you know, every decision that I make, impacts a student and their experience, impacts our faculty, impacts our employees, impacts our alumni, and sometimes that's an overwhelming responsibility. However, I'm really driven by how important it is for us every day To make sure that our colleges and universities are doing their best to educate students and to make sure that every student that we admit and who agrees to join our wonderful community is able to realize their hopes and their dreams.

Dr. Lori White [00:10:14]:

And it was my background in student affairs That really, I think, has enabled me to be a successful President.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:21]:

I think the most interesting part of being a college president out of the student affairs pathway is that it's still a fairly new transition. Most college presidents come out of that provost space. Some are, you know, business officers at the VP level. But I'm aware of very few VPSAs who've really gone on to that. I'll shout out a few off the top of my head. Dr. Frank Sanchez, who mentored me when I was at CU Denver, and Dr. Robin Holmes Sullivan out at Reed University. She came out of that VPSA ship not that long ago. Then, Dr. Rod Kelly, who also came out of student affairs vice presidency and is now, I believe, the University of Portland. So, the student affairs vice presidency is now, I believe, at the University of Portland. So it's really exciting to see it happening, but I also don't know that student affairs professionals really aspire to that direction. I feel like the VPSA role is the top of that aspirational ladder for a lot of people, and popping the top to the presidency doesn't really feel like it's been on the table or been realistic. Tell us about how you made that realistic for yourself and what made you even wanna apply.

Dr. Lori White [00:11:17]:

Sure. And thanks for the list of those folks, all great friends of mine. We all grew up together in student affairs. I would also add John Hoffman to that list.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:27]:

Yeah. Very new as well.

Dr. Lori White [00:11:29]:

Right. Exactly. Several others are now getting opportunities because I think Boards are realizing the breadth of skills that student affairs professionals bring to the job. So let's see what led me to decide I wanted to put my baby toe in the water to actually apply for a presidency. I mentioned earlier that I had mentors who were encouraging me to think about a presidency, including my boss at WashU, who was the provost at the time and was the previous chancellor at the University of North Carolina. I also remember I had given a speech for NASPA, And after I left the stage, Mike Sagawa, who is also one of my longtime mentors, said to me, Lori, you just need to be a college president. And there were other voices, you know, in the field and otherwise, who were encouraging me to move forward. I happened to be on a panel with 2 other women, both of whom were college presidents.

Dr. Lori White [00:12:33]:

Following that panel discussion, the call came out for the presidency of DePauw, And one of those women nominated me for the job. I don't know if I hadn't received the nomination if I would've thought about applying for the position. But once the search firm reached out to me and I understood I'd been nominated by a woman who was a president, I thought to myself, I'm hearing these voices. Another President nominated me. You know, what's the worst that can happen to me? I always say to folks that when you apply for those jobs, the worst that can happen is you lose your time and your ego. Right? Because, you know, your time just in terms of, the time it takes to prepare the materials and your ego if you ultimately don't get the job. Right? And so I tell people, Jill, that I applied for the job for practice. I thought to myself, let me prepare my materials.

Dr. Lori White [00:13:26]:

Let me see what kind of feedback I get. And then, when I'm ready, I will know what I need to work on for me to be ready for that next step. I never imagined I was actually going to get the job, which I think speaks to women. And often, people of color undervalue and underestimate the skills that we have. Right? So, you know, somebody Might see a job description, and let's say there are ten things that are required. And I would say, and most women would say, and many people of color would say, well, I only have 9 out of the 10. So until I get all 10, I'm not applying. Someone else would say, oh, I've got 3 of those things. Oh, yeah.

Dr. Lori White [00:14:07]:

I'm going for, and so, you know, I was in that group of folks thinking that I didn't have enough experience or because I wasn't an academic, Etcetera. And so, as I said, I never imagined I would get the job. But I learned, Jill, that those of us who come up through Student affairs have mad skills. Right? We, first of all, are one of the few people on the president's cabinet who have to look at the entire university. Right? Because in our roles, we work with academic affairs. We obviously, you know, work with all the areas of student affairs. Most of us run some level of business because we're running auxiliaries, residence halls, Bookstores, and student unions. We have to deal with campus crises.

Dr. Lori White [00:14:54]:

Often, we are raising money and if we're not raising money. We are interacting with our alumni and others who, because of their experiences Inside and outside of the classroom, are more interested then in giving back to the university, and we deal with oftentimes complicated divisions and organizations. And so, I didn't really understand how all of that would play into Being a college president, but as I went through the interview process, I was able to articulate all of the work that I had done on behalf of the university In order for the board to see me in that role as their president.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:36]:

I want everyone to rewind, like, 1 minute and listen to Lori Rattle off that list again because she just helped you rewrite your cover letter right there.

Dr. Lori White [00:15:47]:

That's wonderful. That's exactly it. Right? We also teach and write and do research. And so for those who believe that only a pure academic can be a college president, Again, in student affairs, most of us are active scholar-practitioners.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:02]:

Absolutely. It's kind of a wild thing to think about about a career in higher education. And I think that many of my colleagues still couldn't really tell you what a president does on a day-to-day basis. I'm wondering if you can demystify that a little bit.

Dr. Lori White [00:16:16]:

I would love to know the answer to that myself. Right? What do we do on a daily basis? The most important part of the job of a president is this. Number one is working with your board, and that's probably something that most folks Looking outside of the presidency don't realize, so I spend a lot of time working with my board, particularly at a Private university, my board or my chief fundraisers. And so making sure that those individuals that are on my board, Who are volunteering on behalf of the university, are in the know about what's happening on campus, are excited such that they want to be able to continue To contribute their treasures, and can advise me about all of the complicated pieces of running, you know, a multimillion-dollar company. And so spend a lot of time working with the board. Spend a lot of time on fundraising because, again, as a private independent college, we're not getting any money from the state. And so lots of presidents like me were on the road a lot, out there, interacting with our alumni and Friends, sharing the good news about what's happening on campus, and so I spend a lot of time, particularly once we got out of the pandemic, Spend a lot of time out on the road. Also spend time supporting my vice president.

Dr. Lori White [00:17:41]:

So, you know, I went from a vice president To now having a number of vice presidents who are working for me, and I wanna make sure that my vice presidents have what it is that they need In order to effectively run their divisions on campus. And then probably, lastly, and most importantly, again, for a small college we spend 247 every day talking about admissions. Because, you know, I'm unable to deliver a class of students, we can't pay our bills. And so we spend a lot of time strategically thinking about What it is that we need to do to present ourselves to this really competitive market of prospective students such that they will be excited About applying for DePauw and excited about accepting our offer of admission. So those are probably the high-level things that I do, and then, of course, all of us Have all the administrative work that comes with any high-level job that you might have.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:42]:

I think it's really important for listeners to hear the president has a boss, but it's not a single boss. It's a group of people.

Dr. Lori White [00:18:48]:

It's a group of bosses. Right.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:49]:

Group of bosses. Lori, can you talk about the transition mindset that you had to go through and make for yourself from the day that you took off your vice president of student affairs hat and put on your president hat.

Dr. Lori White [00:19:00]:

I had an unusual entry into the job because remember, I was selected as DePauw's president in March of 2020. So I came to campus the 1st week of March for all of the hoopla of the announcement, Which was very exciting. And then, a week later, the entire world turned upside down. So right away, I had to make, really important decisions that affected the future of our institution. So I went from thinking about presidential 1st year as a Meet and greet to a presidential 1st year of deciding, do I open the university or not? If we open the university, how many students Will we invite back to campus? Are we gonna require vaccinations? All of those parts and pieces I had to do as a brand new president or All of those decisions I had to make right away as a brand new president and get to know my community virtually. So, again, none of that is What most new presidents do when you go on that listening tour. I had to do the listening tour, but I had to do it all virtually. And the board asked me to deliver a strategic plan right away, and again, I had to figure out a way to do that on a campus where I didn't have any preexisting relationships.

Dr. Lori White [00:20:19]:

Do that within my 1st year and, again, do that all virtually. So, it was a very different kind of first and 2nd year as a president than I had imagined. And, again, I think my student affairs experiences really served me well because I knew how to relationship build. I knew how to manage in a crisis, though none of us knew how to manage this level of crisis, but I knew What is required in order to respond to, you know, ever-changing rules and policies, and have to make, those kinds of of really important decisions, at least I felt like I'd had some experience doing that. I obviously had some strategic planning experience, and so had to focus on how to figure out how to translate That experience that I had used in strategic planning for a division for an entire campus. And I think the other thing we're good doing in student affairs is keeping people's spirits up and being ever optimistic regardless of the challenge in front of us.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:25]:

Now thinking about all those VPSAs who might be listening today, what would you like to tell them about their applications for presidencies?

Dr. Lori White [00:21:33]:

I know several of them will probably call me, which is fine, or reach out to me about navigating the presidential search process, and I'm more than happy to do that. And what I always say to folks is we need good leaders. We need good presidential leaders and, you know, anyone in student affairs Who thinks they might want to be a college president, I would support and encourage that. And with this caveat, I always tell people, It's not the title. It's the job. And so you have to decide you want to do the work of being a college president, not just be excited by the fancy title. The work is really hard. It's even harder than being a vice president for student affairs.

Dr. Lori White [00:22:13]:

As I said, when I walk out of my door, I realize and recognize I have responsibility for everything at the university, not just some slice of it, and you have to be you're a public figure. Every day, somebody's mad at me for something. Right. At least in student affairs, a person might be mad at me, but most people liked me. You know, in this job, every day, there's somebody who's with the president about something, a decision that you've made, a communication that you have offered or not offered, a program that you've had to sunset, Whatever that might be, somebody's always upset with you, and so you have to be driven by what you think is the long term mission and focus of the institution and feel like every day you're making progress toward that. And if you feel like you can do that, Then you can be excited about the work. If being liked 100% of the time or, you know, feeling that you're are always gonna have all the answers, if that's Something that is most important to you, this is not the job.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:12]:

Totally fair. And the person who might be mad at you may not even be at your institution, depending on what kind of presidency.

Dr. Lori White [00:23:19]:

Or an alum who is not excited about what the alum seeds as a change in the direction of the institution. And for those of us who love places that we have been a part of, Change is hard.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:32]:

For sure. Let's flip that question a little bit. Now that you're sitting in the presidency seat, has that transitioned your mindset at all on the role of the VPSA?

Dr. Lori White [00:23:39]:

You know, it's such a great question, Jill, because I have a great vice president for student affairs, Dr. John Mark Day. And he and I laugh frequently because sometimes when we're in conversation and we're talking about students or student issues, I look at him and I say, you know what? I said, I'm not to where I'm responding with my president hat on, or I used to be a vice president of student affairs hat on. And so, of all of the people on my cabinet, I really wanna make sure that I am not getting in the lane of the vice president for student affairs just because I used to do that job. And I think the vice president for student affairs also appreciates a president who used to do that job and really understands, you know, all of the critical issues that he is wrestling with every day.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:28]:

We've talked a lot about the BPSA, but I also wanna talk about that 1st-year professional who is very far away from the presidency in terms of hierarchy in an organization and who is deeply affected by presidential decisions but maybe doesn't always understand them, or get to be in the rooms where a rationale for those decisions are being shared. What can you say to our entry and mid-level professionals who might be confused or set about a presidential decision or who might go? I don't understand why we're doing it this way.

Dr. Lori White [00:24:55]:

I appreciate that question also, Jill. Certainly, I have gotten that a lot. We had to make some really tough decisions in the spring that affected some particular student populations, and I think Emerging professionals and students were not completely understanding of the reasoning for making those decisions. Part of that, I wanna own because I think we could have done a better job of articulating the why. And, to your point, you know, when I was a younger professional, I was just focused on a particular area that I was responsible for, and I never really thought about the big university as a whole. And so what I would encourage, you know, new and emerging professionals is, as a president, I have to make decisions that affect the university not only tomorrow, but for the next 186 years; we're 186 years old. So, you know, the ramifications of any decision that I make have to stand the university well through the course of its next generation. And I think often Younger and emerging professionals aren't able to see that bigger picture.

Dr. Lori White [00:26:01]:

And so what I would encourage them to do is make sure that they're interacting team with their directors, interacting with their associate vice presidents, and the vice president to educate themselves About, you know, what is the larger context, for any decisions that a president might make, and are there ways in which That emerging or younger professional can give what is probably really valuable feedback, about those big decisions that the president is considering.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:29]:

Our emerging professionals are often the ones who are closest to our students as well. They hear the students most clearly and often are closest in age to our students, so they can truly stand the challenges facing our students better than a senior administrator can. With that in mind, how can or how should an emerging professional or new professional share what they know upward?

Dr. Lori White [00:26:51]:

I think it depends on the place. So, you know, I and what I mean about that is, you know, at a big, Complicated university. It is unlikely that an emerging professional is gonna be able to directly email the president. Right? And so, in those places, it's most important to go up the chain of, you know, I'm trying to think of another word for the chain of command, but the organizational structure. Right. So, you know, sharing that with your director, your director, in turn, shares that with their AVP, and the AVP, in turn, shares that with the VP, who then can share that with the president. You know, at a small place, I'm pretty accessible. And so while I it would not be politically kosher Or, you know, emerging professional to jump over all those hoops and come directly to me with something they hadn't shared with their vice president.

Dr. Lori White [00:27:42]:

People also know that I'm a very accessible president. My email, you know, is open to everybody on campus. People don't hesitate to reach out to me, and so I certainly would encourage somebody on my campus, certainly, if there's something they wanted to share with me To do so, but I would want them to copy in the people for whom they work so that those folks aren't blindsided. I also think, you know, as leaders, One of the things I'm really proud that I did and I need to do more of is that when I created our strategic planning teams when I first arrived, I said I want people at all levels of the organization to participate, not just the usual suspects and not just the people, who are at the highest level of the organizational chart because I know, that there are great ideas throughout the organization, and I wanted to empower Those younger folks to feel like they could offer their ideas and participate.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:36]:

That's wonderful to hear that the strategic planning is considering all levels. I know that not all organizations do that, but it's a true example of giving voice to all professionals. Really appreciate it.

Dr. Lori White [00:28:47]:

Right. I think that I think that's important. I think we need to do a better job of how we can best involve our students. And I think, you know, whenever I talk with students, I say to them, tell me, You know, what is the most effective way for us to hear your voice? Because, you know, we will often hear when we make a decision, well, students weren't informed, They weren't consulted, and sometimes we have informed and consulted, and sometimes we haven't done a really good job of doing that. And sometimes, we may have done that, but not with the right student population. So I think continued interactions with our students about the best way for us to make sure their voices are heard is important. As a matter of fact, tomorrow, I have a meeting with our student body president. I realized that somehow, in the midst of the pandemic, That regular meeting between the president and the student body president had fallen off of my schedule, and I know how important that So I'm excited that we are able to make sure that that's happening.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:44]:

It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:50]:

Thanks so much, Joe. Excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there are so many things that are happening in our association I'm excited to share with you today. The NASPA 2024 conference is going to be here before we know it, March 9th through 13th in Seattle, Washington. And there's been a lot of updates, a lot of things that are Coming down the pipeline that you need to be thinking about if you are planning to attend registration, need to jump into housing. There are a lot of things to consider, but there are also some great pre-conference opportunities that are going to be at the conference as well. So not only are there going to be amazing sessions during the regular sessions of the conference itself, but if you come a little bit early, You can take advantage of the learning at a number of really great pre-conferences that are always Providing high-level quality information that is going to help you in many different ways. A couple of the pre-conference highlights that I would throw out there: the 2024 NASPA Community College Institute, or CCI, is a uniquely tailored experience for community college professionals. This exclusive event accelerates your development, fosters collaboration, and provides insight to reshape program organization and student support services for enhanced student success.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:14]:

The 2024 NASPA International Symposium. The symposium fosters global dialogue on student affairs, aiming to broaden perspectives and forge connections across borders. Aligned with NASPA's commitment to global readiness, the symposium benefits those in international student services and practitioners seeking to enhance Global competency. The 2024 NASPA undergraduate student conference. This conference provides a firsthand learning opportunity for undergraduate students To gain knowledge and understanding of student affairs work, awareness, and professional associations, opportunities for networking, and resources To assist in defining their career trajectory in student affairs. Highly encourage you to go to the conference website, Check it out for yourself see all the opportunities that are available, and sign up now before the preconference session that you want to go to is full. The 2024 NASPA Mid-Level Administrators Conference is coming up June 13th through 15th in Indianapolis, Indiana. This conference is a dynamic professional development event designed to provide mid-level student affairs professionals with the opportunity to engage and learn with colleagues and student affairs administrators.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:30]:

Participants will gain insight from promising practices and personal reflections to develop their professional competencies, networking, and supervisory skills further and acquire new skills and strategies to improve their professional practice. The mid-level administrator's conference is designed for those student affairs professionals who Serve in roles between but not including entry-level positions and AVP and the equivalent roles. Additionally, professionals who have been serving in entry-level roles for at least 5 years are welcome to attend. You have until March 29, 2024, to get in under the early bird registration, so you still have a little bit of time, but I encourage you to do this now and jump in on this great learning opportunity. There are a couple of great NASPA short courses that are available that are starting in January of 2024 that I wanted to make sure that you were aware of. The first goes from January 21st through February 24th, and that is on student affairs at Small colleges and universities. In this course, you can explore challenges and opportunities at small colleges, and this is for leaders, traders, and faculty who serve at institutions with under 5,000 students. The 2nd short course is Title IX Certificate in Winter 24.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:48]:

Now, while the new Title IX rules are finalized, compliance with current rules is crucial. This course offers rule-specific training, including an updated module on proposed rules and recent court decisions. The course actually runs from January 22nd through February 23rd. And finally, the last short course I'll mention today is Assessment by Design, which applies systems thinking to inform assessment practice. Now this course shifts the focus from measuring outcomes to evaluating design. Embrace a systems approach to student affairs assessment, Reflecting on the purpose, challenges, and value of defining the work design. All of these and more are available on the NASPA website. When you go to the NASPA website, go to the NASPA online learning community for additional live and on-demand offerings.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:40]:

Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you Up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers or the divisions of the association. As you're doing that, it's important to identify where you fit for yourself. Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you and allow you to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to say, hey. I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that or encouraging you in other ways that allow for you to be able to Think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts and your talents To the association and to all of the members within the association because through doing that, all of us are stronger and The association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:05]:

Chris, we really appreciate you putting together these NASPA world segments all season. That one is our final NASPA world segment for this season 9. So, Lori, you are now our final lightning round for season 9 as well. I've got seven questions for you in about 90 seconds. Are you ready to roll?

Dr. Lori White [00:36:22]:

Ready to roll.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:23]:

Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, What would your entrance music be?

Dr. Lori White [00:36:29]:

Something from Earth, Wind, and Fire celebration.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:32]:

Oh, that's a good one. Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Dr. Lori White [00:36:37]:

I wanted to be a scientist.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:39]:

Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Lori White [00:36:40]:

Dr. Condoleezza Rice.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:42]:

Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Lori White [00:36:47]:

Call the Dean of Students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:50]:

Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic.

Dr. Lori White [00:36:53]:

SUV.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:55]:

Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Lori White [00:36:57]:

Yours.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:59]:

And finally, number 7, any shout-outs you'd like to give, personal or professional.

Dr. Lori White [00:37:04]:

Oh, shout-outs to all of my peeps in student affairs. Can't wait to see all of you at the Seattle conference, and I'll be holding office hours in the bar per usual.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:15]:

Lori, we are so grateful that you were willing to give us your time. We know how busy you are in the presidency role. I know your advice today has been incredible, not only for me, but for all of our listeners. If folks would like to get a hold of you and they're not gonna be in Seattle, how can they find you?

Dr. Lori White [00:37:29]:

President@depauw.edu .

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:32]:

Can you spell DePauw for us?

Dr. Lori White [00:37:33]:

Sure. Depauw, and the w is important because, DePaul and DePauw are 2 different places.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:43]:

Lori, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Dr. Lori White [00:37:47]:

Thank you so much, Jill. Thank you so much for the invitation.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:51]:

This has been an episode of SA voices from the field brought to you by NASPA. This show is always made possible because of you, our listeners. We are so grateful that you continue to listen to us season after season. If you'd like to reach the show. You can always email us at essay voices at NASPA.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and topic and especially your guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show, and please like, rate, and review us on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:24]:

It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill L. Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio-engineered by Dr. Christopher Lewis. Guest coordination by Liu Yongru. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

View Details

In a this week's episode of SA Voices From The Field, guest Omar Mehdi shared his inspiring journey from being a student at the American University of Kuwait (AUK) to returning as the Director of Student Life. Throughout his discussion, he highlighted his experiences of personal and professional growth, the challenges of transitioning from a student to a professional supervisor, and the cultural shifts he faced as an international student in the United States.

Navigating Change and Professional Growth

Omar Mehdi's story is a testament to the transformative power of embracing change and pursuing new experiences. After completing his Master's in Leadership and Higher Education at the University of San Diego, Omar ventured into the corporate world, gaining valuable real-world experience outside the traditional university setting. His time in the business world provided him with a fresh perspective on decision-making, financial management, and the cultivation of a new professional network.

From Player to Supervisor

Lessons in Leadership Returning to AUK as the Director of Student Life, Omar Mehdi faced the unique challenge of transitioning from being under the direction of coaches to becoming their supervisor. His experiences of making difficult decisions and managing transitions within the sports program shed light on the complexities of leadership and the importance of personality and character in navigating such transitions successfully.

Reflection and Communication in Student Affairs

Throughout his journey, Omar credits his ability to reflect and communicate his feelings to his university program. Initially finding the concept challenging, he came to realize the immense benefit of personal reflection and open communication, particularly when addressing difficult decisions and managing personnel changes. Omar's experience underscores the value of emotional intelligence and self-awareness in the field of student affairs, serving as a guiding light for aspiring professionals.

Embracing Diversity as an International Student

As an international student in the United States, Omar faced a range of challenges, including culture shock, visa issues, and a steep learning curve. His insights into the significance of listening to and understanding the diverse needs and backgrounds of international students highlight the importance of cultural sensitivity and awareness in creating inclusive and supportive environments within higher education institutions.

Impactful Advice for Student Affairs Professionals

Omar's journey and reflections offer invaluable advice for those pursuing careers in student affairs. His emphasis on the significance of personal and professional growth, the value of emotional intelligence, and the need to listen to and understand the diverse needs of students resonates deeply with the mission of creating inclusive and supportive campus communities.

Inspiring Change and Transformation

Omar's story serves as an inspiration for those navigating shifts in their professional paths, urging individuals to embrace change, seek new experiences, and recognize the transformative power of diverse experiences. His impact as the Director of Student Life at AUK reflects a commitment to fostering meaningful student experiences and impacting lives within the academic environment.

In conclusion, Omar Mehdi's journey from student to supervisor embodies the spirit of growth, resilience, and the pursuit of meaningful impact within the field of student affairs. His reflections on leadership, personal growth, and embracing diversity serve as a beacon of inspiration for professionals and students alike, underscoring the profound impact of transformative experiences within higher education.

This serves as a reminder of the power of personal and professional growth, the importance of cultural sensitivity, and the transformative potential of navigating change with resilience and grace. Omar Mehdi's journey stands as a testament to the possibilities that unfold when one embraces diverse opportunities and the journey of lifelong learning within the vibrant tapestry of student affairs.

Please subscribe to SA Voices from the Field on your favorite podcasting device and share the podcast with other student affairs colleagues!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]:

Welcome to Student Affairs Voices From the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season nine on transitions in Student Affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA. And I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your essay Voices from the Field, host today on SA Voices, are pleased to bring you back to the Middle East, to the country of Kuwait to meet Omar Mehdi. Omar graduated from the American University of Kuwait with a BBA in Management in 2012 and then an Ma in Leadership in Higher Education from the University of San Diego in 2014. Omar returned to Auk in 2014 as the Sports Coordinator in the Office of Student Life and then in 2016 was promoted to Senior Coordinator for Sports in 2019, became the Assistant Director of the Office of Student Life, and then left the world of Student Affairs in 2020 to return in 2023 as the Director of the Office of Student Life.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:00]:

I hope you enjoy getting to know Omar. Omar Mehdi, welcome to the show.

Omar Mehdi [00:01:05]:

Thank you very much. I'm very happy to be here and very happy to join you, Jill. Thank you for inviting me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:11]:

It's a wonderful thing to be able to continue our tradition of having guests from all over the world on SA Voices. And will you let our listeners know where we're speaking from today?

Omar Mehdi [00:01:21]:

So we are speaking live from Kuwait.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:24]:

Excellent. And Omar works with a previous guest, Paula, who was on our International Voices season. Listeners, I'm also going to let you know that I'm a little under the weather as we record today, so my audio quality might just be a little bit different than what you're used to. But please bear with us as we I'm sure the conversation will be just as rich, just with a little bit of a deeper voice today. Omar, we love to start our shows by getting to know our guests, and you have one of the most interesting transitions on our season because you've gone from being a student at your university, american University of Kuwait, all the way through becoming the Director of Student Life. So can you tell us about that journey?

Omar Mehdi [00:02:02]:

Yes, it is very interesting to be a student in this university and then graduate from it, come back and work here. My path into this world of student affairs came by chance. I didn't expect that I would graduate and work in the field when I was a student at Auk at the American University of Kuwait. One of the admissions counselors who helped me get into Auk recommended working on campus, be a student employee, and she recommended me to the Office of Student Life because I wanted a job and I had time and why not? I started working at Office Student Life back then. And Then back then, the Dean Of Student Affairs, dr. Carol Ross, and The Director Of Student Life, Damien Medina, were I think they just started the nuff program, NASFA, and they recommended it to me. They like, Listen, if you're interested, this is a unique opportunity to be an undergraduate, a student who gets to know more about what we do and why we do it. I was passionate about working in general, and the fact that they gave me an opportunity to work got me into it.

Omar Mehdi [00:02:55]:

And then I did the nuff program, traveled to Philadelphia back then, where the NASA annual conference was, we did the pre conference with enough group. It was the first time I go to the US. And it was the first time I go to a real conference, not a small conference for undergraduates. It was one which is with professionals and opened up my eyes to realize that the three people that work in the office life at the American University of Kuwait are part of a much bigger group of people that do this. So to see the size, the scale, the number of people that have the same title but work across the US. Canada and more, it was huge for me. I was lucky that the speakers at the Nuff pre conference were outstanding. We had I forget the name of the title of the book, but the strengths, the five strengths.

Omar Mehdi [00:03:35]:

So that you do this quiz at the end of the book and they give you the five strengths. They brought the speaker.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:40]:

It was really cool for Gallup strength.

Omar Mehdi [00:03:43]:

Yes. And he was really cool, very engaging. So it was a very enriching experience for me. And then after it, I started considering doing a Master's degree in the field in the Division of Student Affairs. I was lucky enough to be admitted and selected for the Student Affairs program at the University of San Diego. So at USD, I did my Master's in Leadership and Higher Education. And the beauty of that program is that you get to have your graduate assistantship with the coursework, too. So again, I was very lucky.

Omar Mehdi [00:04:15]:

And you'll notice this is like a pattern in my path. I've always been lucky with the people I work with. Assistant director back then, danielle Nelman and the other assistant director, Stephanie, and the Director of the center for Student Success. All of them were excellent mentors. All of them allowed me to be this little kid who comes from Kuwait who just graduated undergrad right to his masters, have very little experience in the real world to learn, make mistakes, grow and develop. The year and a half I spent USD was, I think, pushed me at least five years ahead than I used to think that I would by the time I graduate. And then I came back. Luckily, there was a position available at American University of Kuwait.

Omar Mehdi [00:04:55]:

So I started as a sports coordinator as a student. I was a student athlete, too, so I was a captain of soccer team. I was in the basketball team. I was in the volleyball team, I was in the table tennis team. So I was very well versed with our program student athlete. But now I came in as a coordinator, I was lucky that the position was available. I started there and then moved into the senior coordinator for sports, then assistant director. I took a sabbatical or a break from student affairs.

Omar Mehdi [00:05:17]:

I left in 2020, just before COVID to work in a corporate world for three years there, and then came back February 2023. So the beginning of this year back to a UK as the Director of Student Life. And that's how I got here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:29]:

You didn't take the worst three years off of the profession.

Omar Mehdi [00:05:32]:

Let me tell you again, I was lucky. It was a troubling time for every industry in the world. But to navigate to support students, and how to offer students an experience into a digital one is a very difficult one. And like every country in the world, kuwait was very unsettled at that point, and we didn't know what was happening. We don't know how long this is going to take. When do we go back? So I left just before COVID and came back just after COVID. So when Hybrid was done, online was done, I came back. So I never got to see university through a COVID experience.

Omar Mehdi [00:06:02]:

I never got to do that, which maybe I'm lucky, but the three years that I was away from the university's industry, I had to also participate or try to offer the company I worked for as much support as I can to the staff and clients that we had.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:17]:

What made you want to depart the field during that time?

Omar Mehdi [00:06:20]:

So I graduated with a bachelor's in Business Management, and the position I moved out of the Auk to go to was one in the business field. It was a great opportunity to test something new, try something different. As you know, as great as it is to work in student affairs and to work in a university, I graduated from Auk. I went for a few years to the States, to two years in the States, came back and worked in Auk. I didn't know anything outside of Auk, which has a lot of advantages in the job because I know it really well. But as a person, as an individual, to grow, you have to kind of leave your comfort zone. You have to leave what you're used to and you have to try something different. I was lucky to in the three years that I was there, I was lucky to learn so much.

Omar Mehdi [00:06:58]:

And I think I came back as a much stronger candidate for the position than if I was promoted from assistant Director automatically to the director. In the three years I've learned so much about the real world when it comes to working with people that are not just students, they don't have to be here. They can choose to pay somewhere else and go because I work in the gyms industry. So it's a month to month relationship. They can choose next month to leave you. So what you work on, how you develop a relationship with them, is very different to I have a whole semester with you, at least if not four or five, six years. So I came back, as I said, as a much stronger candidate for the position. And I can add so much to what I do through both experiences in student affairs and outside.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:37]:

What inspired you to come back into student affairs and specifically back to Auk after having that business experience?

Omar Mehdi [00:07:44]:

The inspiration always comes back to I love what I do in student affairs and I love the field. And I always thought, listen, I'll change the world one student at a time, just let me graduate from USD and the world will never be the same because I want to change the world. You do mature. You do realize it's not that as easy as it sounds, but there's a very different mindset. And I enjoyed my job outside of Auk. There's a very different hat you wear and a very different mindset that you have when you work in a business and you care about financials, you care about bottom line. And there's a very different mindset to trying to create experiences for students to develop, to grow, and to learn from the worries that you have. The concentration, the focus is very different.

Omar Mehdi [00:08:22]:

Going back to trying to build programs or trying to build an experience for students to better themselves, to learn to experience new things, is always something that has attracted me. And that's why when I knew the job was available, I automatically applied to it because I knew this is something I'd love to go back to. And to add to that, I've always done it from a sports perspective. I've always done it as a sports coordinator and then a senior sports coordinator, and then to be able to do it at a director level where I can impact or influence policies or programs at more than just sports. So under our department, we have athletics, we have clubs and organizations, code of conduct, student employment, we have a bunch of facilities that we're in charge of, the lounge, courts and so on. And to be able to influence more than just one aspect of student life is something that excites me to come back to.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:12]:

You said something interesting earlier, which is that you brought back skills that you didn't have before based on the business experience you had. What are some of those skills that you gained while you were out working in corporate world that have really served you well coming into this role as director of Student life?

Omar Mehdi [00:09:26]:

Absolutely. So many one of the things that comes to mind very quickly is the change in network. So in network and student affairs, most of us do very similar jobs and open up very similar paths for each other because we're in the same industry. However, when you go to a different industry, your network suddenly changes and you network with a lot of different industries. And coming back knowing so many different having new ties and having new networks is something that was very valuable, I think, for me so far. A lot of the students have ideas but don't know where to go and don't know who to talk to. A lot of clubs and organizations want to reach out to organizations in Kuwait where they may be too busy and so on. But knowing individuals in It can open up doors and open up channels for them.

Omar Mehdi [00:10:08]:

That's one thing for sure. Another thing in the directorship position you have to assume responsibilities. You don't. As a coordinator, when I left Auk, I was the chief operating officer. So as a chief operating officer in a company, your HR manager reports to you, the finance manager reports to you. Understanding how those moving pieces work and the rationale behind them is something I didn't have in the past. So coming back to now as a director, I understand budgeting at a different perspective. I understand hiring at a different perspective.

Omar Mehdi [00:10:36]:

I understand scale at a different perspective. In the company I used to work in too, we'd organize nationwide events where, for example, there'd be thousands of people that attend our events. Whereas Auk total is 2000 something students. So to understand scalability is something what was new to me. I was used to the same scale. I was used to the exact same scale. As a student here, I graduated, I worked here. USD provided that too.

Omar Mehdi [00:10:59]:

But coming back here was easy. It wasn't something new to me. So understanding that planning at a different scale is something else and assuming responsibility and making hard decisions during COVID at such an executive position at a company where you have to choose to either let go of people, change contracts and so on, and then to move back to a decision making position where it's not as serious as decisions that we make. I'm never going to choose to close a branch or open up a branch. As a director of student life, I'm never going to choose. And this directly impacts people's livelihood. The decisions that we do here I can take a lot lighter than in the past position that I had, which gave me a lot of perspective too.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:35]:

You've also come back to an environment where you mentioned this was kind of the main environment that you knew as an adult, right? You were a student there, you grew up in the sports environment there. Talk to us about the transition of going from student at the institution to professional and how your relationships with people at Auk needed to change at that time.

Omar Mehdi [00:11:54]:

Absolutely. This may sound very interesting to the audience. So when I was a student. I came into Auk in fall 2008 and I graduated spring 2012. In the four years that I was there, the law in Kuwait was that universities had to be segregated gender wise. So I would come to Auk. It is a mixed university with gender segregated classes, naturally, that influenced and changed the dynamics between the genders and between all of campus life. So I leave to the states, I come back, and this law has changed.

Omar Mehdi [00:12:23]:

And now classes are mixed naturally. This changes the overall atmosphere and the campus culture. So even today, which is a mixed culture, the university experience that the students are having today is very different to the one I was having simply because of that. Naturally, as I age and the gap gets bigger between me and the incoming students and the students on campus. So although they're the similar buildings, the exact same buildings, it's the same culture, sorry, it's the same colors, it's the same some of the same employees, some of the same staff, but the culture has shifted completely when I even speak to students today. The university I went to is a very different university that they went to simply because of the way we were. The life that we lived was a very different one. However, I did come back as a young employee.

Omar Mehdi [00:13:05]:

I was 24, and some of the students, especially the nontraditional ones, were close to my age, if not older. I did come back and found some of the students who I was friends with who are still students. The nature of the position that I had because I was a sports coordinator, you tend to be the fun guy. You're not like there to discipline, you're not charged for code of conduct. So it was easy to be the young guy on campus because you're the sports guy. So you're friends with all the players, you're friends with all the coaches, you're doing the fun stuff. However, I think one of the first things that I had to do, and I think it made me a better professional today, is right off the bat, I had to discipline athletes. So I do have to stick to a GPA requirement when selecting students.

Omar Mehdi [00:13:45]:

I do have to enforce these laws. I do have to make sure that their behavior in the team practice and so on is held to a certain standard. Doing it at an age where you're very young to them can cause a lot more conflict and friction, whereas if you're much older, maybe because of simply your age, there can be an assumed authority to your personality that they succumb to. But I think especially that I was balancing doing that meanwhile, while being the supervisor or the person in charge of all the coaches who are all older than and a few of them were my coaches too. And I've had to let go of one of them. Who? Once upon a time, I used to play for them. And now I have to let them go. So those experiences are very, very sticky and uncomfortable.

Omar Mehdi [00:14:25]:

And forcing myself to go through them and not backing down, I think have made me more confident moving forward.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:31]:

Let's talk about that transition with that one person specifically, where you're going from being under their direction as a coach to being their leader as a supervisor. How did you navigate the shift in that relationship?

Omar Mehdi [00:14:44]:

So I had two coaches that I played for and then ended up coming back and becoming their supervisor. In the first year that I was back, I had to let go of one of them. The second year I was back, I had to let go of the second one. I think the first one was, I think, a rough transition. That person didn't take it well, didn't take me offering pointers about how they do their job well, them not taking my feedback seriously, although it sounded serious, although I tried to do it in a serious setting. In the first year I worked at Auk, I'd also dress more professionally just to put that boundary and standard between me and the students and the people that report to me. However, they still never took it that seriously. And when it came to a point in time where we can no longer continue, they never reacted really well.

Omar Mehdi [00:15:23]:

I also think if I were to do it today, I would have done things a lot differently. I have learned in the past, unfortunately, 20 years of working. But the point I'm trying to make is the second time I was able to do it, the personality of the person that I had to ask to step down from the position was a lot more accepting of their mistakes and faults. I also learned that sometimes, even if because you can be really hard on yourself, on the approach because if it doesn't turn out to be as smooth as you hope for it, you also realize that it's not always only on the setting that you put. The other person plays a role. And the character and the personality that you are dealing with is a variable to the situation. So the second situation went a lot smoother, and that person, although they were let go, they were appreciated by the team, the university, they were given a farewell gift and so on. Whereas the first one, it was more storming out.

Omar Mehdi [00:16:09]:

Never want to talk to you again. This is ridiculous. I had to play it back. Driving back home and you're in the shower, you think about what they said. You know, these moments in your life where you think about these difficult situations where if you were to go back, you'd say some things differently.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:21]:

Can you tell us more about what it meant for you to reflect on it and go through your own growth process?

Omar Mehdi [00:16:28]:

Luckily, because of the program that I was in in the university of San Diego. Reflection was huge. Reflection is huge in the process, and it's very embedded in the coursework that we do, coming from the background and atmosphere I came from in Kuwait. To go to USD and try to reflect on my own life was a very new skill. I have never reflected my life to be especially publicly too, there were situations where you would have to publicly reflect and you have to talk about what your reflections look like because that's how the setting is made in the classroom. And because it was very difficult. And by the time I graduated, I actually was able to do this. Now I'm able to reflect, get in touch with my feelings and vocalize how I feel and communicate what I need, what I'm feeling, what I'm learning was a huge advantage for me in the program.

Omar Mehdi [00:17:14]:

It's one of the main things I actually walked away with that I still use today. And it's something I practice in my positions that I've had. But in that period of time, it's interesting because at that point in time, you do reflect on how the words that are said or things that are communicated in the meeting may bruise your ego or bruise your authority and you want to defend it. The first reaction you may have is, I want to defend my ego and defend my authority, and I need to put my foot down. And because in that room I am the younger person. I am the person that not too long ago, I used to be your player, I'd had to be a lot more diplomatic and let go of the bruising that was happening to the ego and the position and the authority. So reflecting on maybe I could have been more aggressive. Reflecting on what if I did this, what would have happened? Maybe thinking I should have made it short and sweet.

Omar Mehdi [00:18:02]:

I shouldn't have maybe gone through an entire meeting with time, unfortunately, I've had several situations where I've had to let go of people. I've been able to maybe see the mistakes that I've done in that meeting and then not repeat them in the future situations, unfortunately, that I've had. But in that period of time where I was going through it, it was difficult because it was a very aggressive meeting. It wasn't a good situation. In the back of your mind, you keep circling back to the because you could have said this and you could have done this. And maybe you think, and this is a person that I don't necessarily have bad feelings towards you. I just don't think you're the right person for this job. But because I was your player, I do have a fond memory of you.

Omar Mehdi [00:18:41]:

And now that's ruined because now you think I'm a horrible monster who's let you go. But I actually don't have anything against you. I just think we need to try someone else.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:49]:

Let's go back in time a little bit and talk about your transition to being an international student. You've spent most of your life in Kuwait, if not all of your life in Kuwait. And you're like, let's go to San Diego. It's sunny there. But tell us about that immersion into American culture and your adjustment period into life in USC.

Omar Mehdi [00:19:08]:

All right, so, as you said, lived my whole life here, born and raised. And sometimes it's like the fish in the water. They don't know they're wet, and you have to leave to know what dry is, because you have to leave the sea to know that what dry looks like. In Kuwait, I knew myself through titles. I am the captain of the football team. That is what I do. I play football. I am the youngest son to my parents.

Omar Mehdi [00:19:31]:

That is what I do. I am the youngest son to them. I am friends with so and so. That is what do. And because I was in that setting, I never got a chance to actually get to know who I am outside of these roles that you play. The moment I moved to the United States, and the moment you go there, you realize the world's much bigger than the little world you live in. And this can be true to any country, any city you live in. And because the United States is really far in distance and in similarities between the country I live in, everything is new.

Omar Mehdi [00:19:54]:

I never paid attention to the color of my skin till I went to the United States. I never realized I have a color of my skin till I walked into the US. That I realized I don't look like them. They do look at me and see a difference. My accent, the things I say, what's appropriate to say and what's not appropriate to say. You can say things in Kuwait that can make everybody laugh and make everybody feel comfortable, but you can say in the States, and everybody will think you're horrible and think you're crossing all kinds of red lines. So moving there in the beginning and this is the thing, I had visa issues to get to the States, so I missed the first semester. And then because of my assistantship, that goes with the actual being admitted to the university.

Omar Mehdi [00:20:29]:

So there was an office who was waiting for me to come that I actually never turned up to for a whole semester because they were waiting on me to get my visa. And by the time I got there, it was literally a few days before spring orientation. We were in charge of spring orientation as an office center for student success. So I literally had to hit the ground running. There was no room for you to train right now. Whatever task I give, you just have to do it. We will get to training you later. We will get to transitioning you later today.

Omar Mehdi [00:20:50]:

We have to do orientation. And it was the first time they do orientation too, as an office, maybe there was the first time for the center for Student Success to organize orientation, but for me, it was the first time doing everything. The learning curve for them was related to orientation. For me, it was everything. Whether it was orientation, these people, their names, what time does the sun set? Where do I get what this and that? I moved there not having an apartment or a place to stay. I stayed at a motel in the beginning, so I'd finish work and go back to a motel. Classes haven't started yet, so that's a new curve that's coming up. And I think I was lucky to have that.

Omar Mehdi [00:21:20]:

And I think because I hit the ground running, there wasn't time for me to dwell on the differences, dwell on the culture shock. Because you hit the ground running, you quickly have to adapt. And no time I was able to get myself sorted and move into a place and all that stuff. But the person that went to the United States of America and the person that left the United States of America are two different people. And I'm a much better person because of the experience I had. If I never went to the United States, I think I'd still be the same person I was. And I would say that is a worse off human being. I think as a person, I became much better outside of career wise.

Omar Mehdi [00:21:53]:

Career wise, I've developed mentally because of the experiences I had, because of the mentors that I had, because of the program that I was in. But genuinely, as a human being, I also improved a lot. I've changed a lot. The reflection process that is embedded into the program has allowed me to change some of the things that I never realized were a part of who I am. And going back to the point I was saying earlier where I knew myself through my roles, going to a country that A doesn't care about, maybe soccer, in the same way Kuwait does, and who I do as a person, and realizing you have a skill nobody cares about, and then nobody knows who you are. You don't know who anybody is, you don't know where things are. And trying to create something in that environment made me a much more confident, much more independent, and much more well rounded. I used to live with my parents.

Omar Mehdi [00:22:36]:

I still live with my parents because of the culture that we live in. You don't leave your house until you get married. So naturally, food is something I take for granted, laundry is something I take for granted. And this is something every college student feels the first time they go getting to learn how to do their laundry and something new. But it was new to me, and I was doing it as the older dog. I was doing it as. A person who has 21 years old, not 1718. So now I'm a little different, too, in that aspect.

Omar Mehdi [00:22:59]:

And then you move into the actual coursework and the actual program. And it was very strange to me that people were talking about their feelings in the classroom. It was extremely strange. It was strange to the point of it was off putting. Like, why are you being emotional? I don't want to learn this. I want to learn what says in textbook. I'm still looking at it as a traditional education style. And people were talking, everybody's talking about their feelings.

Omar Mehdi [00:23:22]:

And I'm sitting there thinking, this is ridiculous. You guys need to take yourself seriously. There's a professor here. And then some of them would be emotional to a point where they would cry. And to me, this is ridiculous. Guys, come on. Get a good grip. And I never understood the value of what they were bringing to the table till, I think, my second semester.

Omar Mehdi [00:23:40]:

And that's when everything clicked, kind of. I started drinking the Koolaid, tried to understand what it is that we do and why we do it. Understanding that emotion isn't a bad thing, feeling it isn't a bad thing. The knowledge and learning that you get from getting in touch with these emotions and unraveling the onion is something that is valuable. Understanding also that in Kuwait, being a student employee at a university, it's a great experience, but you're not really in charge of a lot of bigger things. And then you move to the States, and now you're a graduate assistantship. So it has a higher responsibility. The volume of work is more responsible, or the kind of work is more responsible.

Omar Mehdi [00:24:15]:

And then these supervisors aren't. I don't know them. They're new to me. And working to impress them was something very hard for me because I don't know who they are. I don't know what they expect when it comes to the delivery of work or the quality of work that you have to do. I was very impressed by them, and naturally, I wanted to impress them. So that was great, and I learned a lot from being able to work with them. And the best part of my program, what made transitioning to life in the United States and San Diego specifically, is the program was very sensitive to the fact that I am an international student.

Omar Mehdi [00:24:46]:

They were very careful with my transition in the sense that we had a cohort that would meet every two weeks as a class, and we would talk about our experiences. The people in the cohort were also very friendly to the fact that, hey, Amar is not from here. Like, how's doing? I think they were very welcoming. I was very lucky to have a very welcoming cohort that wanted what's best for me. They would talk to me about my transition and how I'm coping, which some people may not do that. You may not be so lucky to have a cohort that actually cares to check in, to actually care to give. You advice to actually to see how it's like to be the international student and see your input or what you bring to the table, your perspective as valuable. So in a nutshell, it's lucky to have that experience.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:24]:

What advice would you give student affairs professionals around the world to support international students coming to their campuses?

Omar Mehdi [00:25:30]:

I think they should listen. I think that international students is a title you use for non US students. However, we as a group have so many different things.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:40]:

Literally the entire world, it's everybody but American.

Omar Mehdi [00:25:43]:

And we are all very, very different in our backgrounds and so on. However, we do go through similar aspects of US. What makes us international students, the culture shock, the transition, trying to get self sorted and so on. However, listening is very important. The student groups that come to you may have very different needs, may experience things very differently. So maybe a student from a certain country may experience the exact same thing. A different student is from a different country experiencing it very differently. The international office that belonged to the USD at University of San Diego was also very cultured, which, I don't mean this in a bad way, but it isn't the same in the States.

Omar Mehdi [00:26:15]:

Like in my first week in the US. Someone came to me and said, Where are you from? And I said, Kuwait. And they said, oh, is that inside India? And to me it didn't offend me. I laughed because I was like, oh, Sweden, no, you need to open up a map of the world to me. I laughed. It didn't offend me, but it could offend people. That not knowing the difference between someone who is and it happens in the world because there are a lot of states that are neighboring and have very similar populations but hate each other and don't get along. So mistakening the difference between one and so listening and realizing that students have different needs and number two, being cultured and incoming student.

Omar Mehdi [00:26:49]:

Especially that as a person who is Muslim, who does believe in Islam, who does practice Islam and lives in a conservative country, when you go to the United States, which is a very liberal country, a lot of things can offend me. And trying to understand if this is something that may be normal to Americans, maybe hard for me to swallow or to cope with, can impact my experience and impact my retention. Reasons to come back is something very important because one of the things that used to happen in the class, especially in student affairs, they'll talk about LGBT concerns. And this is unheard of in where I come unheard of. And to be in a classroom where you're trying to understand their perspective is something that is foreign and alien to me because this is not something that is welcomed nor accommodated in where I come from. So this is one example, but you can have so many, and because again, I come from Kuwait, right? So a lot of people would ask me about Iraq as if I lived there, and then the war in Iraq was still going on, so people would ask me about the war and the troops. And San Diego is a very Marines heavy city, and a lot of our students in USD were there for the GI G Bill or what's it called, and they would come and want to talk to me about Iraq and talk about their experience. But that's not mine.

Omar Mehdi [00:27:56]:

I know it's close, but it's not mine. And I've never been to Iraq. So it's trying to understand the nuances of where they come from is very important because you're going to welcome them in as a university and you have a responsibility to make them feel comfortable in the same way that you have a responsibility to make res life, to be comfortable for the incoming freshman students and so on. So for me, the International Student Office needs to a listen, and b be more cultured in the nuances of the student groups coming in because they come with very, very different backgrounds.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:22]:

It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:28]:

Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and as always, there's a ton of things happening in NASPA, and I always love being able to share with you some of the great things that are happening. Another great blog on the NASPA website how community Colleges and University Partnerships improve enrollment and student experiences. This is by Sherry Rowland of Tallahassee Community College. Sherry provides some really great insights into her own experience, but also some practical applications and takeaways that you may be able to consider for implementing at your own campus. If you've never checked out the NASPA blog, you need to go over to the NASPA website, click on the latest, and go down to blog. Or you can just scroll over to the latest and go down to blog and you'll find this article right toward the top of the page. Finally, we are thrilled to announce that ACPA College Student Educators International and NASPA Student Affairs Administrators in Higher Education are once again partnering to devise and update the ACPA NASPA professional competencies for student affairs educators, along with the complementary rubrics with a planned release for the updates in Spring 2025.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:50]:

There's a large number of individuals from both ACPA and NASPA that are on the Task Force. As the Task Force begins its work, we at NASPA are excited to offer the first of many opportunities for members to provide feedback about your experiences with and use of the professional competencies in your work. This first opportunity will be focused on groups centering on individuals in various positions in January 2024, NASPA will offer additional focus groups based on the ten current professional competency areas. NASPA also will provide an opportunity to offer written feedback via a short survey. Should have received an email just recently where you can sign up for one of the initial focus groups. All you have to do is click on the link in your email to be able to sign up for a session. And Espa does anticipate that these sessions will fill, but there will be additional opportunities that will continue to offer other engagement opportunities for you to provide feedback over the next few months. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:57]:

So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit, where do you want to give back? Each week. We're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in. That knowledge, community. I see myself doing something like that or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:18]:

Chris, we always appreciate the time and effort you put into the NASPA World segment and keeping us informed on what's going on in and around NASPA. Omar, we have now reached our lightning round segment, which means I have about 90 seconds for you to answer seven questions. You ready to go?

Omar Mehdi [00:32:33]:

Let's go.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:34]:

All right, question number one. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Omar Mehdi [00:32:39]:

Eyes of Tiger.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:40]:

Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Omar Mehdi [00:32:44]:

Engineer.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:44]:

Number three who's your most influential professional mentor?

Omar Mehdi [00:32:47]:

Fat Wahat.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:48]:

Number four. Your essential student affairs.

Omar Mehdi [00:32:51]:

Read the Chronicle.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:52]:

Number five, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic?

Omar Mehdi [00:32:56]:

The Office.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:56]:

Number six. The podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Omar Mehdi [00:33:01]:

The rest is football.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:02]:

And finally, number seven any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Omar Mehdi [00:33:06]:

I'd like to give a shout out to the American University of Kuwait with all the employees and faculty that have made me the person I am today, whether as a student or as an employee. I learned from them and learned from them on a daily basis, and I'm very grateful for everyone who has been a part of it. Last but definitely least, I'd like to give a shout out to my family who make me who I am and have to tolerate who I am too. So shout out goes to them.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:29]:

Thank you so much for sharing your perspective from Kuwait. I think it's always amazing to have more international voices on the show. The vast majority of our listenership comes from the US. But we're getting quite a bump coming in from Qatar lately. A few downloads here and there from many, many other countries too, but just really appreciative of you coming in and sharing your perspective on all of the transitions you've had over the years. Omar, if folks would like to reach you after the show, how can they find you?

Omar Mehdi [00:33:56]:

They can find me on Instagram as Ometti number one and number 414, so Ometi 14 and email. I'm sure you can share that in the announcement.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:06]:

All right, Omar, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Omar Mehdi [00:34:10]:

Thank you, Jill. I really appreciate it and enjoyed the conversation. Hopefully I get to meet you one day in one of the conferences.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:18]:

This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is always made possible because of you, our listeners. We are so grateful that you continue to listen to us season after season. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn. By searching for Dr. Jill L. Craighton. We welcome your feedback and topic and especially your guest suggestions.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:43]:

We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show. And please, like, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced hosted by Dr. Jill L. Creighton SAP Mi. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:05]:

Guest coordination by Lu Yongru. Special thanks to University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

View Details

In this episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, Dr. Jill Creighton welcomes Andrew Hua, a Chinese Vietnamese higher education scholar and practitioner currently serving as the Director of Student Affairs Case Management Services at the University of California, San Diego. Andrew's journey into student affairs began as an undergraduate student involved in leadership activities, leading him to pursue graduate programs in student affairs. He initially worked in residential life roles and later transitioned into case management. The conversation delves into how case management adapted to remote and hybrid models during the COVID-19 pandemic, focusing on building strong relationships with students even in virtual settings.

Andrew shares his unexpected transition to the interim director role at UC San Diego and the challenges he faced during this significant shift in responsibility. Mentorship, support, and collaboration are highlighted as crucial aspects of professional transitions in student affairs. Andrew also discusses his decision to pursue a Doctorate in Education (EdD) while managing his leadership role and the challenges and rewards of such a commitment.

Throughout the episode, Andrew's journey exemplifies the importance of mentorship and support during career transitions in student affairs, as well as the significance of building rapport with students and colleagues, even in remote or hybrid work environments. He emphasizes the value of seeking and accepting support from mentors and peers when navigating transitions.

Please subscribe to SA Voices from the Field on your favorite podcasting device and share the podcast with other student affairs colleagues!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]:

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:30]:

Andrew is a Chinese Vietnamese higher education scholar and practitioner. Currently, Andrew Hua serves as the Director of Student Affairs case Management Services at the University of California, San Diego. Before starting at UC San Diego, andrew served as a higher education professional at the University of California, Berkeley and Washington State University. He received his Master of Arts in Student Affairs administration degree from Michigan State. Go Green. Go Spartans. And he received his bachelor of arts in sociology degree from the University of California, Riverside Go. Highlanders.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:59]:

In addition, Andrew is the 2023 2025 Asian Pacific islander knowledge community cochair Andrew's various experiences in cris management, behavioral threat assessment, nonclinical case management, residential life, Greek life, student conduct conference services, and student government, along with his desire and passion to learn for developing students holistically as leaders, citizens and scholars in a safe and welcoming community is the foundation of his student affairs experience. Personally, he'd like to share that he's a huge Disney fanatic and loves photography. So you could say that his hobbies are going to Disneyland and taking pictures. However, he has other Hobies as well. He enjoys playing volleyball board and video games and going on foodie adventures and hiking. Andrew, so thrilled to have you on SA voices thank you.

Andrew Hua [00:01:40]:

I'm excited to be here with you as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:42]:

We learned from your bio you are not only the current co chair of the Apikc for NASPA, but you are also transitioning in other areas of life with a recent permanent position and also doctoral studies. So a lot going on for you in the transition space. But as we like to start each episode before we get into the journey, would love to know your come up story. How did you get to your current seat in higher ed?

Andrew Hua [00:02:05]:

Yeah, it's not a traditional pathway. I would have to say. I'll share that it started off traditional. As a young undergraduate student, I got involved in leadership, had the opportunity, had great mentors, advisors, and he said, have you ever thought about doing something like we do and doing student affairs? I was like, I have no idea what that is. And from there, it started with exploring graduate programs and then applying and getting in. So I went to Michigan State University, which was awesome. Go Spartans. And then from there, all my background has been residential life, so res life at Michigan State residence, life at Washington State residence, life at UC Berkeley, and then my transition from Berkeley to where I'm at now the University of California, San Diego, is case management.

Andrew Hua [00:02:54]:

It was a unique space. I wanted to get back to Southern California, and I started exploring different opportunities and found myself as a case manager. I saw transferable skills and over. In three years, there's been a lot of transitions from case manager to now serving as the director of the Student Affairs Case Management office.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:13]:

That's an incredible jump in three years to go from the individual contributor role to leading the entire team in such a short span when it was kind of a new functional area for you, but also kind of not, because what ResLife staff member is not doing case management and maybe just not calling it.

Andrew Hua [00:03:27]:

That 100% agree with you. I think Res Life has given me so many opportunities in understanding different areas and field of work. It felt really good to transition to that. But you're right. I would say it was one I think most folks face this. I transitioned in 2020 from Res Life to case management. A whole new field of work, kind of. And then from 2020 to 2023, I was working remotely hybrid, somewhat in person.

Andrew Hua [00:03:56]:

So lots of transitions and even transitioning to being interim director. Then director has its own transition too.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:03]:

Let's talk about doing case management in the hybrid and remote space, because I think case management especially is one of the areas of student affairs where there may be some hesitations from leadership to be okay with that because of the sensitive nature of what these types of cases can be. We're seeing students who are having mental health emergencies. We're seeing students who have personal crises. And there can be something impersonal about doing that level of connection with another person through the Internet. So tell us about how you navigated that.

Andrew Hua [00:04:32]:

Yeah, it was very interesting. I think we've all adapted in 2020. Students had to adapt, professionals had to adapt, and the only way to connect was virtually. So I think we had to find a way to find that connection. And one of the connections I was able to build is how do we build rapport with students? Get to know them as if we were getting to know them as if they were sitting right across from us, getting to know who they are as a person, getting to know what their interests were, understanding what their challenges are and what are their primary and I guess primary priorities when they come meet with us. Right. It's not about let's talk about anything and everything. It's about what do you need at this moment? And I think that's where I felt the students felt like they were being heard.

Andrew Hua [00:05:13]:

We've continued to do hybrid now because that's what the students want. We've done assessment. They've said majority of time we would like to have zoom. Do we do offer in person. But the students choose that because it's convenient. It allows them to be in the space that they're most comfortable, not in an office that they're not familiar with. And they also get to choose the time much more conveniently to them. They have to walk across campus, take in travel time.

Andrew Hua [00:05:37]:

So I think all things that I think about leadership, my leadership and my supervisors, when we have conversation about how do we conduct our work, if the students feel safe in their space, there's less risks of them spiraling or their mental health being flared up, and we're able to kind of navigate that with them. Of course, we do run into some of the situations where students do end up having a cris over the phone or over zoom, but we have our resources intact, right? That's where we'll de escalate. We'll do our best to contact resources off the side, whether it's contact another team member via teams, zoom, et cetera, to help us get the resources to the student if we know where the student is at that moment.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:19]:

So it's allowed you to work faster? In some ways, yeah.

Andrew Hua [00:06:22]:

More efficient and effective ways at times.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:24]:

You mentioned that you took on an interim position before becoming the director. How did that know?

Andrew Hua [00:06:30]:

That was a unique situation. I was not expecting. I did my role as the inaugural case manager and outreach specialist at UC San Diego. And my role. I was learning, and I felt really comfortable after a year. And I was ready to meet for my annual performance evaluation with my supervisor and say, like, I'm ready for more. Ready to look at what does it mean to be a case manager that takes on the designee responsibilities of my director when they're out of the office. And then I went into that meeting, and my director shared, you know what? I have some news to share with you.

Andrew Hua [00:07:02]:

I have actually accepted another position. I'm like, I didn't even get a chance to share about my goals for the next year, et cetera, because the next thing that came up was, Andrew, we've talked to leadership, and we think you'd be great to serve as the interim director. And I was shocked. I was like, it was one year in. Granted, I received positive feedback for my performance throughout, but I was not expecting that. So I had a moment of pause before I actually accepted.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:27]:

Think the more realistic way is you were freaking shook.

Andrew Hua [00:07:32]:

You are absolutely correct. I was I was not expecting I was like, I've done one year in this field, they're asking me to be interim director. I was like, okay, let's chat about that. What does that look like? So I was shook.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:43]:

That is a really different conversation than.

Andrew Hua [00:07:45]:

The one you expected to have 100%. So granted, it was a great opportunity. And I did get to sit down and talk about, like, I really enjoyed working with my supervisor. And I said, I will accept it under one condition, is that you continue to serve as a mentor. And that the leadership that is still here that I will report to, also will serve as mentors too. Not just supervisors, but mentors to mold me into a great leader. Why take on the interim role?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:15]:

That is a really amazing ask. We talk a lot in negotiation skills about things you can ask for that is not necessarily based salary, like vacation days and other types of things. But asking for someone to serve as a mentor is a really great pro tip, especially if you're taking on something that maybe you have your own reservations about.

Andrew Hua [00:08:33]:

Yeah, 100%. And I can tell you, they all agreed. They're like, absolutely. We will continue to serve as mentors and consult as you navigate this water until this day. I still have mentoring moments with them. Like every month, we have something scheduled with my previous supervisor and the leadership here at UC San Diego. So it's not gone. It still continues, even though I have taken on the permanent role.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:56]:

When you take on an interim role, and especially in the way that it was offered to you, it doesn't really give the team a lot of transparency. That can feel a little bit scary to the team when all of these changes are happening suddenly. How did you navigate the waters of moving from a fellow case manager to supervising others? Who were your direct peers and maybe had no idea this was coming?

Andrew Hua [00:09:15]:

Yeah, that was a tricky area to kind of navigate. But in much reflection, I did inquire why me? Why my position? Why am I being selected? I think that was important for me to understand. And what was shared with me was my inaugural role. The student affairs case manager and outreach specialist. That was the starting point. The future and strategic plan was eventually this role would become the Assistant Director or would eventually become the designee overall for any Director responsibilities. When the Director was out and the entire team knew that when they did their search for the position, the entire team knew that the Student Affairs Case Manager and Outreach Specialist role was going to evolve into something of leadership. So I think that's when it made me feel a bit more comfortable with knowing that the team knew this.

Andrew Hua [00:10:05]:

They all had opportunities to also apply for the position and show interest. I think the other piece for me is I took it in my own responsibility to connect with my colleagues. I checked in with them and shared hey, of course, when the announcement was made, I connected with them afterwards and said, I wanted to check in with you. How are you feeling about the decision? What are some challenges that may be coming up, or how can I best support you in this interim phase? My colleagues actually embraced me. They're very happy. They're like, we are so happy that we have an interim director. We've seen what this department has been like when there is an interim director, and some of them shared with me that they're glad that they didn't want it. We had no plans.

Andrew Hua [00:10:48]:

They did not want to be the room director. So glad you accepted. We will happily work with you. And I think the year that I got to spend with them was awesome. We collaborated on so many projects, so they knew who I was, they knew how I worked, and in no way, shape, or form was their conflict. It was all collaborative and learning, and most of them had skills that I learned from that helped me kind of build on the interim position.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:11]:

The interim year is starting to come to a close. It's time to think about whether or not that permanent position is something you want to do or don't want to do, because you had the opportunity to learn over the course of that year. Tell us about how you made the decision that, yes, you do want to go for the permanent position.

Andrew Hua [00:11:27]:

Yeah, that was a lot of thinking. I knew when I accept interim role, it was also a place of, like, I feel like I'm interviewing for this position too.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:39]:

For a whole year.

Andrew Hua [00:11:40]:

For a whole year. And I also was in a place of, I'm going to look at this opportunity as interim to decide whether I would actually enjoy this work. I was going to look at this interim opportunity to also understand if this will propel me for future professional opportunities. And I think both were yes. Right at the end of the day, I enjoyed the work. I enjoyed that this pathway was probably going to lead to new opportunities for my next career step. I enjoyed working with the staff that helped support students. I do miss working with students quite often, but this gives me a different level of work, and there's a different type of feeling when I'm able to support my staff and they are coming back.

Andrew Hua [00:12:22]:

During our Kudo sessions. We appreciate your leadership. We appreciate the opportunity to work with you and your consultation. These are folks that have done case management much longer than I have. Some of my colleagues come from a social work background, and when I am able to provide my expertise and we are working together to provide an interdisciplinary or multidisciplinary approach, it feels good. So I think overall, those are a couple of things that came to mind.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:47]:

You decide to go for the role, you do have to do a full, real search to get the position. What was that like to go from being a person who was leading the team to a person who is now interviewing for your own job again with that team and with your supervisors?

Andrew Hua [00:13:03]:

That was a fascinating experience. In my interim role, we had vacancies, and I had to hire a couple of folks as well. So I hired those folks, and then in turn, they have to decide whether I get to continue or they interview me. And my feelings were kind of mixed. Right. Is that there's a fear because as an internal candidate, they get to see everything. As much as we'd like to ensure that it's unbiased process in any hiring, recruitment, there's some bias that I believe does permeate into the space of like it comes into feedback and how we see others. But overall I'm laying out there and they can see everything, whether I present it in the interview or if they've seen it in the past in the work that I've done.

Andrew Hua [00:13:43]:

I think the other piece was also excitement. It was an opportunity for me to share the great work that we've done and share where we can go. Because I have had some time internally to think about strategically, if I were to take on the interim director position, lead this department at full capacity, where could it really be? So those were kind of the two mixed feelings. I was going in and then of course, it's kind of awkward going in and you see all the familiar faces and you have to like, let me tell you how I do my job, or how I think the job can.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:11]:

Be done, or here's how I think I do the job. And then maybe what they're receiving from you is not aligned with their experience with you. It's a weird place to navigate.

Andrew Hua [00:14:20]:

Yeah, absolutely. Every has their perceptions and thoughts. So yeah, it's a unique experience to be in.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:27]:

You get the position, you're sitting in that seat now. What was the transition like for you from moving from the interim space to moving to the full time space?

Andrew Hua [00:14:35]:

I'll be very honest, it wasn't too big of a transition. I felt like I was already doing the role at full capacity. If anything, I felt comfortable making long term decisions. So there were things that we tested out in the interim. I was like, we're just doing this interim, we're going to pilot it during the interim. But now coming out of interim and being the full time official director, I was like, it worked, let's make it official.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:00]:

Stick it.

Andrew Hua [00:15:01]:

Yeah, let's stick with it, put it into place, iron it out, cement it in. And those practices are in and they run so efficiently and effectively. So I think most of the part it's just like, okay, now I can put yes permanent stamp on it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:15]:

All the while you're doing this interim position, this job search internally, you're also pursuing the Edd, which is taking up a ton of time and energy. How's that going? And how the heck are you balancing that with taking on this brand new and very big job?

Andrew Hua [00:15:32]:

I don't know what I was thinking.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:35]:

I think someone may have cautioned you in that regard.

Andrew Hua [00:15:39]:

I've had great mentors who cautioned, but also said that they would support me in whatever decision I go with. And I will say there were a lot of things that were coming to mind. I had applied during my interim phase and I got in during my interim phase and I said yes to the Edd. So it was kind of like a weird situation where I said yes to Edd, even though I knew I didn't have the official position, because I was like, this is always something I wanted to do. I always wanted to get my doctorate. I wanted to also get back into classroom and learn. I also wanted to be innovative. And then some of that is for me as an individual, I needed some structured learning and structured growth opportunities, and the Ed program provided that.

Andrew Hua [00:16:23]:

And I think it came down to be like the reverse round. Like, I am in the Edd. Do I take on this director role permanently? Because I could have gone back and been the assistant director. Because during my interim role, I also made some changes to my old position as strategically set in stone in the past. So, yeah, I was like, I said yes to the Edd. I feel good about the director role. I'm going to say yes to this, and I will say I have not regretted it. It has been tough, it has been exhausting, but I have not regretted the decision because I honestly think it has only made me a better leader and a better director and a better student affairs professional.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:03]:

What are your strategies for finding time to be a person or to take care of yourself while you're doing these things? For those of you who can't see Andrew put out his.

Andrew Hua [00:17:14]:

You know, that's a good question and a hard question. I think I started off pretty strong in my first year of my doctorate and also the official director role by sticking to a routine. And I had support from my supervisors and leadership. Right. It's at 05:00 p.m.. There's no contact for me. We are non clinical case management and work related stops at five. And I've seen this where my leadership has told other leaders on campus, like, you will not hear from Andrew until he comes in at 08:00.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:44]:

A.m., that is amazing support.

Andrew Hua [00:17:46]:

Yeah. When I saw that email, I was like, I feel I can fully put my work from eight to five and really be myself after that time. Right. And I think the balance after 05:00 is where does education and fun time go? And that's been a bit of a challenge. But my first year again, right, I had a structured set up. I had a number of hours. I would do some studying, and then after that, I can watch TV, I can play games, I can do whatever. Of course, schedules change up where friends come in town and we make modifications.

Andrew Hua [00:18:16]:

But I think that's the biggest thing is that my leadership supported me in my academic journey and I was dedicated to finding balance in my life. Now year two, and now almost going to year three, there's been a couple of changes, transitions, but all still the same goal of trying to be like, no, at five, I'm done 08:00. I'll come back the next day and then stick to my studies at the evening as much as I can.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:40]:

And we're looking at Dr. Hua 2024, right?

Andrew Hua [00:18:42]:

Oh, you know, possibly if I really hunker down, it could be 2024. If not, it will be early 2025. So fingers crossed.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:53]:

We'll say hashtag Dr. Hua class of 2025 or sooner.

Andrew Hua [00:18:58]:

Yes, I will take it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:59]:

You're also taking on the role of running for and being elected the co chair of the NASPA Apikc while you're doing this interim and now director role and while you're doing this Edd program. So you just kind of were like, bring it on. I want all the things tell us about that journey.

Andrew Hua [00:19:17]:

I feel like you got my resume somewhere. Yeah. I'll be very honest. All these decisions were also encouragement from mentors people I respect, and also during my interim phase, which is very unique for those who know how KC election works. There's, in between KC chair appointments, they do an election. So you have elect year if you are selected. And during that time, I was interim and, you know, exploring opportunities. I had people saying, you would be awesome.

Andrew Hua [00:19:48]:

You should nominate yourself to go be a co chair. We have another colleague that would be awesome to team up with. So having spoken to my co chair, who is Michelle Chan now, and we found some common ground and some excitement behind potentially being co chairs, and we went for it. I was like, in a day, someone else probably will nominate themselves, we will go through the ballot and I might not get it, and that's fine. Why not put my name in the hat, see what happens? Little did I know, name got pulled. Yep. I am now the co chair. And I was like, oh, boy.

Andrew Hua [00:20:24]:

So I took the year of being a chair elect for KC as seriously as possible and learned as much as I can. It is a lot of work. Kudos to many of my previous Apikc, NASPA Case, NASPA Apikc co chairs. Y'all do a lot that is not seen. So kudos to those folks and how do I manage it all? I try to find a balance with my co chair, and I go back to previous co chairs and be like, give me your tips. What have you done? What can I do better? So it's a lot.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:52]:

I think what we're hearing from you is that the leadership in the KC space is truly a service to the profession. I know that when we think about leadership development theory and different ways of leadership, oftentimes we think of the figurehead as having decision making authority and number of other things. But while that is true, especially in the KC space. The corralling and consensus building is really one of the most important things that the KC chair can do. I always view you all as the stewards of the KC for the time that you're elected. I talked to Shakura Martin about their journey to the NASA Board chair recently. They said it's a stewardship of the organization, it's not Shakura's agenda. And the same thing is true for the KC roles.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:32]:

It's Andrew's Stewardship of the KC. Not Andrew's Agenda for the KC.

Andrew Hua [00:21:36]:

It truly is not my agenda. The leadership team are great folks who are motivated, excited, who want to give back, who want to engage. So it's really supporting some of their ideas. And of course, our constituency, when the constituency speaks and shares their ideas, we'll both look at ways on how we can incorporate, how we can make it come to life. So truly, I think the other way I navigate is taking on this co chairship is my amazing leadership team does amazing job. They are awesome. So their excitement, their drive also excites me and pushes me to continue to push forward with all the responsibilities of being a co chair 100%. It is not my agenda.

Andrew Hua [00:22:16]:

It is all about what our community needs.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:18]:

You have been a tremendous guest for the theme of transitions. Given all of the transitions going on in your world, what advice do you have for listeners who are going through their own transitions in their professional life, in their service life, or in their life life?

Andrew Hua [00:22:33]:

I think for me, the biggest thing I learned is not to do it alone. Every transition comes with its challenges. And for those who are great higher ed and student affairs folks, challenge and support, right? Balance it out. Find the support to help navigate those challenges. I have mentors that are outside of this country that I connect with that help support me as well. So I would say don't do it alone. And you have people around you that are rooting for you to go through that transition and they'll be right there beside you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:01]:

It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Christopher Lewis [00:23:07]:

Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world and as always, there's a ton of things happening in NASPA and I always love being able to share with you some of the great things that are happening. 2024 NASPA Institute for New AVPs is coming up January 25 to 27th in Atlanta, Georgia. The NASPA Institute for New AVPs is a foundational three day learning and networking experience designed to support and develop AVPs in their unique and challenging roles on campus. The Institute is appropriate for AVPs and other senior level number twos who report to the highest ranking student affairs officer and who have been serving in their first AVP or number two position for not longer than two years. It sounds like something that you would love to be a part of. To learn more about, go to the NASPA website under Events and click on 2024 NASPA Institute for New AVPs. So, in January 2024, january 27 through the 29th in Atlanta, Georgia, is the 2024 NASPA AVP Symposium.

Christopher Lewis [00:24:18]:

The NASPA AVP Symposium is a unique and innovative three day program designed to support and develop AVPs and other number twos in their unique campus leadership roles. Leveraging the vast expertise and knowledge of sitting AVPs, the Symposium will provide high level content through a variety of participant engagement oriented session types. This professional development offering is limited to AVPs and other number twos who report to the highest ranking student affairs officer on campus and have substantial responsibility for divisional functions. Additionally, Vice Presidents for Student Affairs and the equivalent who are presenting during the Symposium may also register at a discounted rate and attend April 20 eigth through the 30th of 2024 in Doha, Qatar, is the 18th Annual Manassa NASPA Conference. The Manassa NASPA Conference provides student affairs practitioners with the knowledge and skills to effectively address and support college students. Higher education is witnessing a wide array of challenges, especially in the area in the era of fast technological evolution. Thus, this three day conference by NASPA and the Middle East, North Africa and South Asia Manassa area is an opportunity to connect with colleagues regionally and abroad to talk about these emerging technologies. The conference is going to provide space for discussing innovative ideas, adaptive approaches, use of technology, best practices, lessons learned, and provide tools to understand the next generation of student affairs.

Christopher Lewis [00:25:57]:

If you want to know more about this great conference and travel to the Middle East to meet so many of your colleagues, go to the NASPA website and check it out for yourself. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you want to give back? Each week. We're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in. That knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now.

Christopher Lewis [00:27:10]:

To offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association, because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:31]:

Wonderful as always to hear from you, Chris, on what's going on in and around NASPA. Andrew, we have reached our Lightning round segment. I have seven questions for you in 90 seconds.

Andrew Hua [00:27:42]:

Oh, boy. I'm ready. Here we go.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:44]:

Question number one if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Andrew Hua [00:27:49]:

I would choose finesse by Bruno Mars. I don't just I feel like I would walk up with some finesse.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:55]:

Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Andrew Hua [00:27:59]:

Oh, when I grew up, I'll be very honest. I wanted to be a dinosaur. I wanted to walk around like a trex.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:07]:

You can still do that?

Andrew Hua [00:28:08]:

I still do sometimes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:10]:

Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Andrew Hua [00:28:13]:

That's a difficult one. I have a lot of mentors that have inspired me to do many different things, so I unfortunately, cannot just provide you a name.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:22]:

Number four. Your Essential Student Affairs.

Christopher Lewis [00:28:24]:

Read.

Andrew Hua [00:28:24]:

I'm reading too much right now, so there's too much in my doctoral program to read, so I can't pick one. Sorry.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:30]:

Number five, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic.

Andrew Hua [00:28:34]:

I would have to say I've jumped back into Criminal Minds, and Criminal Minds is just something I really enjoy.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:40]:

Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Andrew Hua [00:28:44]:

In the last year, honestly, the quickest thing for news for me is up first. I like to try to get little bits and get on it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:51]:

And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Andrew Hua [00:28:55]:

Personally, I would probably just shout out my parents. I wrote it in my application. I write it in my dissertation everywhere and my work, that they are truly who inspired me to be a disruptor in education and how to disrupt some of the systematic challenges and systems of oppression. So they're my personal shout out and professional shout out. I would have to say there are a number of folks from Glinda Guzman, Sonny Lee to Alison Satterland, all folks who have inspired me. And if I'm able to shout out you, Jill, you have influenced me in many ways and also inspired me to do many things. So those are a couple folks.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:34]:

It's been a wonderfully, rich conversation to talk to you about your transitions today. If others would like to reach you after the show, how can they find you?

Andrew Hua [00:29:42]:

If folks want to reach me, there are two ways I recommend finding me on LinkedIn. You can try to find me with my LinkedIn name, which is H-U-A-N-D-R-E-W just my last name, hua. And then Andrew. Or you can contact me via email, which is ah u a@ucsd.edu Andrew.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:00]:

Thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Andrew Hua [00:30:03]:

Thank you. This was great. Thank you for having me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:06]:

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:31]:

We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show. And please, like, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill L. Craighton. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:54]:

Guest coordination by Lu Yongru. Special thanks to University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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This week we are taking a break from our regular episodes to celebrate Thanksgiving in the United States. As you give thanks, we encourage you to also learn more about the land that we currently occupy.

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In this episode of Student Affairs Voices From the Field, Dr. Jill Creighton, welcomes W. Houston Dougharty, a seasoned student affairs professional with a four-decade career in various leadership roles at multiple colleges and universities. They explore Dr. Dougharty's journey in the field, the changes he has witnessed over the years, and the lessons he has learned.

W. Houston Dougharty discusses his early passion for college life and how he started his career in admissions. He reflects on the significant changes brought about by technology and the complexity of students' lives in the current era compared to the simpler college life of the past. The two also discuss the importance of adapting to these changes while maintaining the fundamental relationship-based nature of the student affairs profession.

As W. Houston Dougharty transitioned from associate dean to senior student affairs officer to vice president, he shared how he continued to stay connected with students and emphasized the value of maintaining informal, friendly relationships with them. He also reflects on the challenges and support mechanisms as students navigate their growth and development.

W. Houston Dougharty's publications on theory to practice, ethical decision-making, and executive transitions are discussed. He explains how these opportunities came about through his connections with colleagues in NASPA and how they helped him bridge theory and practice within the field of student affairs.

The episode concludes with W. Houston Dougharty sharing his experiences in retirement, emphasizing the importance of service and community involvement. He mentions his volunteering activities and how he is finding ways to engage with the community and stay connected to education and student affairs through consulting and coaching opportunities.

Overall, the episode highlights the evolution of the student affairs field over the years, the enduring importance of relationships, and the importance of embracing change while upholding core values in the profession.

Please subscribe to SA Voices from the Field on your favorite podcasting device and share the podcast with other student affairs colleagues!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]:

Welcome to Student Affairs Voices From the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 9 on transitions in student affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, And I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Welcome back to another episode of essay voices from the field. Today's conversation features the distinguished W Houston Doherty. Houston is a 4 decade college student affairs leader who served as senior student affairs officer at Grinnell College, Hofstra University, Lewis and Clark College, and the University of Puget Sound. Before these leadership roles, he served as associate dean of students at Iowa State, preceded by a decade as a highly successful leader in enrollment management. He earned his degrees from Puget Sound, Western Washington, and the University of California Santa Barbara.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:53]:

He received the distinguished service to the profession award from the Iowa Student Personnel Association in 2011 and the outstanding senior student affairs officer award from NASPA SPUG region 4 East in 2013. In 2018, he was named a pillar of the profession by NASPA, and in 2021, he was awarded the Scott Goodnight award for outstanding performance as a dean by NASPA region 2. He was ultimately honored in 22 when NASPA awarded him the National Scott Goodnight Award. In 2023, he was also awarded the University of Puget Sound's distinguished alumni award for professional achievement. He served NASPA as James e Scott Academy board member, as faculty director for the 2022 NASA Institute for new vice president for student affairs and as the faculty director of the NASPA Institute for aspiring vice presidents for student affairs in 2011. Houston also served on the regional boards for NASPA regions 2 for east and five. He's been cited in numerous publications, for example, the New York Times, the Chronicle of Higher patience, Seattle Times, USA Today, etcetera, and is published in a number of books including Linking Theory to Practice, Case Studies with College Students, which has 2 editions from 2012, the Advocate College Guide from 06, Maybe I Should, Case Studies on Ethics for Student Affairs Professionals in 09, and Executive Transitions in Student Affairs in 2014. In retirement, Houston is active and student affairs consulting and coaching and serving on the board of the KUNM Public Radio and in volunteering for the Food Depot Big Brothers and Big Sisters as a loyal alum of Santa Fe Prep and Puget Sound.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:14]:

Houston, I'm so glad to have you on SA Voices today.

W. Houston Dougharty [00:02:16]:

Thank you. It's terrific to talk to you and To meet you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:19]:

So this is the 1st time we're talking. And in true student affairs tradition, I suppose, in our preshow talk, we discovered we have many, many mutual students and have in fact lived in some of the same cities, just not at the same time.

Dr. W. Houston Dougharty [00:02:32]:

It's that classic 2 degrees of separation in student affairs. It takes A 32nd conversation to figure out the 18 people you both know.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:41]:

Absolutely. And now we get to know each other. But, Houston, you have recently retired from the profession with an extraordinarily accomplished resume as you've contributed to the field and made your mark in different ways. So we're gonna move through kind of your journey, but I'm wondering if you can give us the highlights of kinda your stops along the way. And ultimately, you became a pillar of the profession, Scott Goodnight award winner, a number of those very prestigious honors in NASPA. Sir. But what led you to that journey?

W. Houston Dougharty [00:03:08]:

Well, I was just telling somebody yesterday, a graduate student who was asking me about my career. I just I had to start by saying, I'm really one of the luckiest guys on the planet because I've had the chance to spend 4 decades helping folks realize their dreams And get in touch with their talents and help create the world they wanna live in. And it really started during My undergraduate career as a student at Puget Sound back in the seventies and early eighties when I fell in love with college. And it didn't take me long to figure out that if I could Figure out a way to live my life on a college campus, I would be a very, very happy person. So I started my life in admissions At my undergraduate institution at Puget Sound, like a lot of us do. And then I had a a small family, and my wife said, you're gonna travel how much? And then I went back to graduate school at Western Washington and then at UC Santa Barbara and realized that what I really loved doing was being a part of students' lives every single day. So I've had the chance to do that on 8 different college campuses in six States over 40 years. And I've been at little tiny liberal arts colleges like Grinnell and Lewis and Clark and Puget Sound, and I've been at big places like UCSB and Iowa State.

W. Houston Dougharty [00:04:23]:

And then I I finished my career at a place that kind of blends the 2, Hofstra, right outside of New York City, Which is over 10,000, a bunch of graduate and professional schools, but also only 3 or 4000 residential students. So, again, I just think I'm very, very fortunate to have had been a part of Students' lives and colleagues' lives for that period of time at all those different places.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:43]:

One of the reasons we were so excited to have you on this season about the themes of transitions is you've been able to mark the story of student affairs from the late seventies, early eighties until literally the present. So you started in student affairs before we had really evolved in a technological school space before social media, before email, before, you know, all of these different ways that student development and student affairs work has really been deeply impacted and in a lot of ways, you know, growing in the improvement space from that technology. We actually just had a conversation with Eric Stoler about The transformation of technology in higher ed is a is a huge component of our work. But I'm hoping you can tell us about where the field was anchored when you started and how you've seen it grow in that transition space of society growing.

W. Houston Dougharty [00:05:27]:

One of the things that I'm pleased about, in spite of all the change in the last 40 plus years, is that I still think it is fundamentally a relationship based profession where we're able to most Positively impact students' lives by taking the time to get to know them, and to be supportive of them. And at the same time, I wrote a piece For Scott Academy blog, as I rolled off this summer from Scott Academy board, I talked about One of the main changes, and that is in the complexity of our world and the complexity of our students' lives. And it sort of hearkened back to how simple in many ways college life was in the seventies eighties when there were no cell phones, where, you weren't inundated with with news 24 hours a day where life just seemed slower And simpler and perhaps more relationship oriented in a natural way. And one of the things that our profession has had to do Considerably is adjust to that complexity, to make sure that we're relevant in students' lives And relevant in a world that has changed some.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:42]:

Houston, one of the things you mentioned about the transition was kind of this simplicity of college life when you started in the profession. And I'm wondering if you can just define that a little more about what that kind of simplicity space looked like and felt like for you as a professional and for the students that were attending college.

W. Houston Dougharty [00:06:59]:

Sure. Well and a lot of it is tied to technology in that For the 1st 10 years of my professional life, I didn't have a computer on my desk. There was no such thing as email. In fact, when I went to graduate school in the early nineties, I very distinctly remember the very first assignment we had was to send an email. And that's Very funny to think of is and and we were nervous, and we didn't have Gmail. We used a server called Eudora is how we send our email. Students did not have the constant tether of outside information, like 24 hour news or Podcasts or the ability to text with their friends all over the world, they also lived in some ways not only a simpler life, but a more independent life Because their parents and their family members or their guardians were in sporadic conversation with them As opposed to now where students are con you know, walking out of class and texting their mom about the class thing. You know, I remember When I was in college, you know, my parents lived 1500 miles away, and we talked every other Saturday for 10 minutes by pay phone.

W. Houston Dougharty [00:08:14]:

That's a whole different world than than the kind of constant, communication and Styles of parenting have changed dramatically. So I would say technology and family dynamics are 2 of the things that I've noticed the most. And

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:28]:

Well, I'm sure that that phone call was quite expensive, and if parents are not home to receive that phone call, that's it.

W. Houston Dougharty [00:08:35]:

That's right. And I was the first person in my family to have gone very far away to college. My parents did not, have much money. I bought a little, you know, a little card that I could use on a payphone, and we would need it. You know, we'd call it 1 o'clock on Saturday every other week. And it was a very valuable conversation, station. But it was a 10 minute conversation. And I can't help but think in many ways I grew and my independence because we had so little conversation.

W. Houston Dougharty [00:09:04]:

And yet at the same time, I'm sure there's there's part of our lives that we would have loved to have shared, Which so many students can do so much more easily now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:13]:

One of the conversations I have at new student orientation every year now is with parents and giving them my personal challenge to give a little bit of that untethering, some of that freedom. And my my 1st 6 weeks challenge is always, Don't text your student until they text you first.

W. Houston Dougharty [00:09:30]:

Love that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:31]:

And that really feels impossible for a lot of parents. And then this year, I had 1 parent who actually responded in one of our parent groups and, said, I'm taking team Creighton's advice because my student told me I'm annoying them.

W. Houston Dougharty [00:09:46]:

It's very true. And I think because students and parents have been so accustomed To be in such close contact, it's tempting for parents to then wanna solve rather than allow students to be in discomfort. And as we in our field know, growth is what comes from discomfort. And so I think your advice is really good advice so that students can have some comfort and try to learn to navigate things without their parents constantly or their guardians constantly coaching them. And And

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:17]:

that's what we're trying to do a lot is have, you know, discern the difference between discomfort and growth and crisis, right? We don't want students floundering. That's the challenge and support theory that we've been operating off of for years. I mean, we're just figuring out differently.

W. Houston Dougharty [00:10:31]:

Well, and again, that just as the relationship basis Our field hasn't changed in 40 years. The challenge and support has not changed. I think, though, it's nuanced as we've had to adjust To family dynamics being different and technology being different. That the challenge and support is still critical, but it's mix and it's nuance Has had to shift with the changes in our world.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:56]:

Certainly. And I've been reading and listening to a lot of information on AI right now because, you know, there's bold statements out in the world like AI is gonna take over human jobs. And then I think about what we do or what our counterparts in counseling do or counterparts in therapy do. And while AI can certainly be harnessed to make our jobs easier, there's no replacement for a person to sit across from you and provide you with emotional support or comfort or guidance.

W. Houston Dougharty [00:11:21]:

Yeah. And I I think coming out of COVID, we were that was even reinforced with us, wasn't it, Jill? That As much as we found that we could do long distance or or through a screen or through other modes of communication, so many of us were so anxious to get back to an environment where we could actually have coffee with students, where we could actually be in the lounges of the residence halls, where they could come to our office hours Because of that, the sort of genuine nature of that caring relationship that is engendered by being in person.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:53]:

Absolutely. And For me, those who have worked with me at previous institution or have read any of my recent LinkedIn stuff, I I'm very much a proponent of the remote and hybrid work space for higher ed. So I think that there's an interesting balance for how we take care of ourselves and also show up in our best way for students. And I really think that's hybrid going forward because we can do both. Right? We can give people the flexibility, that they need to live a whole life and then also be there for students when our students need us.

W. Houston Dougharty [00:12:20]:

Well, and it has to be both and. Right? And we learn so much about what we can do differently that it's important that we not simply revert back to what we were comfortable with, especially those of us who are older and have been doing this a long time, but that we say, so how do we take the best of what technology offers us And a hybrid world offers us, and also hold on to the things that have always been dear to us.

Jill Creighton [00:12:44]:

I wanna talk a little bit about your publications. You've had quite a career publishing books on a number of things, including theory to practice, ethical decision making, executive transitions. What inspired you to write on these topics?

W. Houston Dougharty [00:12:57]:

Well, all of those opportunities came about because of Colleagues that I've had through NASPA, folks who are faculty friends, who were once colleagues, who then wanted a practitioner to join them in a scholarly exercise. And I think if you're referring to the case some of the case study books I've helped work on, I think in many ways, there's no better training Then trying to think about how one applies through the practice. I also was invited to be part of the executive transitions book that, You know, it was all about sort of going from the world of AVP or dean to VP. And, again, the chapter I helped write with Joannes Van Heke In that book was about how you take change theory and how you take a theory around leadership and apply it to the practical nature Of understanding a new campus and understanding a new role on campus. So that space of theory and practice link has always really intrigued me, And I've been so thankful, Flo Hamrick and me and Benjamin and and, you know, the folks who have invited me to really be a practitioner or scholar and join them In writing about that theory and practice world.

Jill Creighton [00:14:10]:

Because you have participated in a book literally with the word transitions in the title, I would love to know if you have any nuggets that you'd like to share for current practitioners that are looking at that switch from number 2 to number 1.

W. Houston Dougharty [00:14:23]:

It's a fascinating time in one's professional life when you think about that shift. And and I distinctly remember having conversations about Never wanting to be a VP because I loved being an AVP or a number 2 so much. And I was always afraid That if I became a vice president, and then, of course, I ended up being a vice president for almost 20 years, that I would lose contact every day with students. And what I realized was that that was my responsibility, that that there was no institution that could take The posture that as a VP, you can't hang out with students as much or you can't be in their lives as actively. But that's a choice I had to make. And, consequently, as I looked at VP Jobs, I had to make sure that I was taking a position At an institution that shared that value of mine, that value and that vocational dedication to having relationships with both undergraduate and, when possible, graduate students. And I basically found that at the 4 places where I was an SAO. I was able to make that part of my life, and it was still really foundational for me since I was So often the only person at the cabinet level who knew a lot of students by first name and knew their experience, and my job was to help represent them.

W. Houston Dougharty [00:15:48]:

Right. So I'm so glad that I didn't shy away from advancing to the vice president seat, But I'm equally thrilled that I did so with a commitment to staying in touch with the student experience.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:02]:

When you think about how your roles evolved in your career, how did your relationships with students transition as you kind of moved up the proverbial ladder.

W. Houston Dougharty [00:16:11]:

At several places, I was known by students as the vice president who doesn't seem like 1. In that folks who may be listening to this, you know me know I'm not a very formal person. Now I grew up in the southwest where we say y'all and where it's laid back and where it's unusual to wear a tie. And and I was able to take that to lots of parts of the country. When I was offered the job at Hofstra right outside of New York City, there were other administrators there who thought, well, maybe this guy's not gonna be a very good batch because he's he doesn't act or look very vice presidential. He's not very, serious, or he's not very, buttoned up. And what I found is that at all of the institutions where I was lucky to work, there were students who loved the fact that I was Informal. And that and that doesn't mean I didn't take my job incredibly seriously and that I didn't realize that my job was was helping build buildings and hire staff and and enforce policy.

W. Houston Dougharty [00:17:07]:

But again, before this notion of both and, that it can be both and. I could still be my Rather casual, friendly self and also be a very competent and a very successful administrator. And then in fact, Having the opportunity to be in the student section at ball games and at lectures and concerts and plays with them and Sitting with them and having lunch with them and having weekly office hours made me better at being a competent Administrator because I was in more in touch with what the student experience was.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:45]:

One of the reasons I love serving in the CSAO COC is because I get to learn from our students every day. I learn so much from our population here at my current university. We come from so many diverse grounds. Wondering if you can share with us maybe a nugget that you've learned from a student over the years.

W. Houston Dougharty [00:18:03]:

Sure. I have particularly loved Getting to know student leaders. And I've, you know, I've advised student government and so I think particularly of 1 student who I worked with very closely at Sure. Who was I haven't been a member of a a group led organization. She was the president of Panhellenic, and She taught me a sense of language, a sense of understanding values around fraternity and sorority life, but also how to mediate. We were working on a building project, and the ways she mentored me And helping represent the administration with students who are so passionate about space and about their organizations. I was made a much better administrator for spending the time with Reba and having her be feeling like I could sit back and say, Reba, this is your expertise. These are the people that you know so much better than I do, and you know their organizations better than I do.

W. Houston Dougharty [00:19:02]:

I'm gonna take your lead As we try to compromise on some situations here, and then she just did brilliantly. And as I think about mentors I've had, I have her on my list of mentors as someone who is and then she went on to do our our graduate degree at Hofstra. And coincidentally, through four 3 or 4 years after she graduated, she also saved my life by donating a kidney to me when I was in a health crisis.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:26]:

Oh my goodness.

W. Houston Dougharty [00:19:27]:

And she was one of 75 or 80 students who volunteered to be tested when I was in the last stages of renal failure. And, you know, she she came to me and she said, from the first Time I met you at orientation, I knew I wanted to be a vice president for student affairs someday. And even if I never become 1, my kidney will be. And, you know, it's just remarkable that this student who has a 19 or 20 year old impacted my life so remarkably As a professional, Nao has sort of become part of our family by literally giving up herself to save my life.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:59]:

That's amazing.

W. Houston Dougharty [00:20:00]:

That may not have been the answer you were thinking about when you thought about what I've learned from a student. But

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:06]:

This is exactly why we ask open ended questions. We always get these rich stories. It's beautiful. Houston, you're now in the retired space, and I'm wondering tell us about that experience of moving from what is a very fast pace and demanding job at the CSAO level into a life where you can make a lot more of your own choices.

W. Houston Dougharty [00:20:28]:

Well, in some ways, I was benefited by having COVID be the few years right before. I will and also have this medical leave from my kidney transplant because My wife, Kimberly, and I were actually really concerned about what life would be for me after retirement because student affairs has been for me a lifestyle, not just Not and it's been a vocation and a lifestyle, not just a job. And she always said, what are you gonna do without a campus? You have had a campus for 45 years. And so in many ways, having the world sort of slow down around me with COVID, I realized that there are things I love to read. You know, I've always been very interested in the arts, and I've been very interested in athletics. I was able to dive into those in a way that I didn't realize that I hadn't really had the time to do that while I was on a campus as fully engaged. And don't get me wrong. I absolutely loved that engagement.

W. Houston Dougharty [00:21:23]:

I wouldn't have traded that for anything. But what it did was it taught us both that there is life for me Off campus and yet I've spent 40 years as someone who has embraced a vocation of service And now I'm figuring out ways to embrace avocations of service. Just today, I spent 3 hours volunteering at The local food bank here in Santa Fe, and I'm getting involved in Big Brothers, Big Sisters. I'm on the board of the New Mexico NPR Geek Geek, so The KUNM radio station I'm on the I've been appointed to that board. So I've been able to sort of find ways, and I'm Still finding ways. I mean, who knows what that will be in the next 20, 25 years of my life. But service to others is important to me, and so it was really important To Kimberly and me that we find ways coming back to my hometown. I don't think I mentioned that, but I grew up in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

W. Houston Dougharty [00:22:16]:

I left for 44 years and then we bought a house Five blocks from the house I grew up in, and so I'm rediscovering my hometown through sort of a lens of service. Yesterday, I volunteered at a college fair at the high school I went to Santa Fe Prep. In 2 weeks, I'm going to be at homecoming at Puget Sound because I'm on the alumni council. So you can't really get me off campus. I'm also doing a little bit of consulting. I'm doing some executive coaching with a vice president in Pennsylvania. I'm gonna be working with Some folks in student affairs at University of New Mexico, but just in sort of a consulting kind of space. So I read 5 newspapers a day every morning.

W. Houston Dougharty [00:22:52]:

We love that. I walk my dog for 6 or 7 miles every day. My wife and I have nice long conversations and have time to go to dinner in a way that we haven't for the last 35 years. So that's sort of how I'm conceptualizing. I'm only 3 months in to formal retirement having left New York on June 1st and coming back home to Santa Fe.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:13]:

It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:19]:

Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world. And as always, there's a ton of things happening in NASPA, And I always love being able to share with you some of the great things that are happening. The NASBA Foundation is pleased to recognize outstanding members of the student affairs and higher education community through the pillars of the profession award and one of the foundation's highest honors. This award comes from you, our members and supporters, as a way to pay tribute to your fellow colleagues who represent Outstanding contributions to the field and our organization. The NASPA Foundation board of directors is honored to designate the, pillar of the profession to the following individuals, Teresa Claunch, associate vice president for student life and dean of students at Washburn University, Danielle DeSowal, clinical professor and coordinator of the higher education and student affairs master's program at Indiana University, Martha And Cezzle, associate vice president for student affairs, California State University Fullerton. Amy Hecht, vice president for student affairs at Florida State University. Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs, University of Michigan Flint.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:29]:

Kimberly Lowery, director of college leadership and impact, the Aspen Institute. Edward Martinez, associate dean for student affairs, Suffolk County Community College, Jukuru or KC Limimji, vice president for student affairs, Southern Methodist University, Ramon Dunnech, associate vice president, University of Nevada, Reno. Adam Peck, posthumously awarded Assistant vice president for student affairs at Illinois State University. Christine Quamio, interim assistant vice provost for diversity and inclusion, University of Hawaii at Manoa, Darby Roberts, Director, department of student affairs planning assessment and research, Texas A&M University, Marcela Runnell, vice president for student life, and dean of students at Mount Holyoke College. Tiffany Smith, director of research, American Indian Science and Engineering Society. Don Stansbury, vice president for student affairs, Clayton State University. Belinda Stoops, associate vice president for student health and wellness at Boston College. Mary Blanchard Wallace, assistant vice president for student experience, University of Alabama at Birmingham, and Leslie Webb, Vice provost for student success in campus life, University of Montana.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:38]:

If I accidentally said the names of these amazing The Jewel is wrong. I am so sorry. I want to say thank you to all of them for all of their unwavering support, for our association, for the profession, and congratulations on this amazing honor to each and every one of them. The pillars of the profession program also allows for you to be able to help The foundation in many different ways. You can give a gift in the name of one of these pillars to support them and also to Support the NASPA Foundation and all of the great work that they do to be able to push our profession forward. I highly encourage you to go to the NASPA website to the foundation's page, and you can give a gift of any amount in the name of any one of these pillars to support them. You can also support multiple pillars if you want to. Highly encourage you to go support Pillars today and be able to continue supporting our foundation in so many different ways.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:45]:

Also, on top of the pillars of the profession, the foundation also Selects a distinguished pillar of the profession award. The 2024 John l Blackburn distinguished pillar of the profession award is given to 2 different individuals, including Sherry Callahan, retired vice chancellor for student affairs at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro, and posthumously to Teresa Powell, vice president for student affairs at Temple University. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening And allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers Or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself Where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey. I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to Think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association because through doing that, all of us are stronger and The association is better.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:35]:

Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:39]:

Chris, it's always such a pleasure to hear from you on NASPA World and what's going on in and around NASPA. So, Houston, we have reached our lightning round where I have about 90 seconds for you to answer 7 questions. You ready to do this?

W. Houston Dougharty [00:28:53]:

Let's do it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:55]:

Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

W. Houston Dougharty [00:29:00]:

Can I offer a couple?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:02]:

Sure

W. Houston Dougharty [00:29:02]:

I'm a huge fan of the blues, and queen of the blues, Koko Taylor, has a song that I absolutely love called let the good times roll, And I feel like my career has been a lot of good times. And then I I'm also a huge Talking Heads fan, and so whenever Talking Heads burning down the house Comes in, I'm ready, so I'd offer those too.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:21]:

Number 2. When you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

W. Houston Dougharty [00:29:25]:

When I was five, I either wanted to be a farmer like my grandfather, or I was starting to think maybe I would be the governor of New Mexico.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:34]:

Not too late for that one. Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

W. Houston Dougharty [00:29:40]:

I would say, if I could rattle off a couple, The 1st person who gave me a break in student affairs after having spent 10 years in admissions was Kathy McKay, Who was the dean of students then at Iowa State University.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:53]:

And I know Kathy.

W. Houston Dougharty [00:29:54]:

Okay. So Kathy and I are are very, very close. And in fact, she now lives in Denver, so we're only 5 hours from each other. So Kathy's who gave me my big break at Iowa State back in the day. At Iowa State, I learned so much from Nancy Evans, who was on the faculty there, and she and I both have clear research and research about students with disabilities in our areas of interest, and I learned so much from her and Ronnie Sandlow. I learned so much from Ronnie and and then Susan Pierce, who was the president of Puget Sound when I came back here in the Dean's student's office. Those are the women that come to mind most quickly for me. Sorry. I couldn't limit to one. And and there's so many others that I would love to include.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:34]:

So fun fact, I was working at CU Denver when Kathy was the dean at Metro State University of Denver. Yep. And then also when I took the ADP dean of students job at WSU, I replaced Cathy who was doing it internally. So I love these weird connections in student affairs.

W. Houston Dougharty [00:30:50]:

Isn't it Funny.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:51]:

Let's move on. Number 4, what's your essential student affairs read?

W. Houston Dougharty [00:30:55]:

Well, I'm very interested in sort of alternative notions of leadership, These are not new books at all, but there are these little thin books by a guy named Max Dupree. One is called Leadership is an Art And the other one is called Leadership Jazz. And I'm a huge blues and jazz person, so I particularly love that little volume, which basically talks about Great leadership is like leading a jazz band where everybody gets a solo, and I just love that notion of blending the notion of music and jazz.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:23]:

Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic.

W. Houston Dougharty [00:31:26]:

So the hospital I was in in Manhattan had BBC America. I found this really great show called Grand Design where people dream about Where they would like to live and they renovate a space. And if you ever have connection to BBC Grand Design, It's just lovely, and it's British, so it's sort of witty. And I can't do anything with a hammer myself, so I love it when other people do.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:54]:

Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

W. Houston Dougharty [00:31:58]:

The moth. I love to hear people tell stories, And so I've sort of gone back into the catalog of The Moth, and so I love The Moth.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:07]:

And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

W. Houston Dougharty [00:32:11]:

Oh my gosh. Of course, my family, you know, my loving wife, Kimberly, and our kids, Finn and Ali, who are amazing and and who grew up on college campuses across America, And I am so thankful to them for doing that. And in our preinterview chat, we talked about interns that I had, like Dave, and colleagues I've had, like Jim Hoppe and Debichi at Puget Sound. I mean, just and, you know, the amazing students who've really become part of my family. And 2 of them were in Santa Fe 2 weekends ago to seizes Oprah Byrne, which is a huge thing we do in Santa Fe. 1 came from Boulder, and 1 came from Boston. And, I mean, it's just, You know, we work in student affairs, and you will never be lonely because you're able to make these wonderful connections with people who are so dear.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:54]:

Houston, it's been just a joy to talk to you. So I know that, you know, we just met for the 1st time today, but I already feel like I know you a little bit, which is, such a lovely, warm feeling. And if others would like to connect with you after this show airs. How can they find you?

W. Houston Dougharty [00:33:07]:

Sure. Well, probably the easiest way is on LinkedIn, w Houston Dougharty, and I also, today, I was at at big brothers, and they said that we're gonna Google you. What are we gonna find? So I I went home and Googled myself, and there are a lot of student affairs related things. So you could Google w authority. You'd see all kinds of interesting things, and I'd love to reach out or talk to anybody who'd like to be in touch.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:28]:

Houston, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

W. Houston Dougharty [00:33:31]:

Thank you for the opportunity. It's been a real treat, and it's great to meet you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:35]:

This has been an episode of essay voices from the field brought to you by NASPA. This though is always made possible because of you, our listeners. We are so grateful that you continue to listen to us season after season. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at essay voices at NASPA.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and topic and especially your guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show, and please like, rate, and review us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, eye or wherever you're listening now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:09]:

It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us become more visible in the larger casting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill l Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Guest coordination by Liu Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

View Details

In this episode of Student Affairs Voices From the Field, Dr. Jill Creighton hosts Dr. Yisu Zhou, an accomplished university professor from the University of Macau. Dr. Zhou shares his unique journey from being an international student to becoming a professor and provides insights into the transitions in higher education, particularly in China and Asia.

The episode begins by introducing Dr. Yisu Zhou's background and educational journey. He highlights his early experiences as an English teacher in rural China, which sparked his interest in education. He pursued his PhD in the United States, which ultimately led him to his current role as a professor at the University of Macau.

Dr. Zhou emphasizes the impact of internationalization in higher education, discussing how the economic growth in China over the past two decades has created a demand for high-quality education. This demand has led to an increase in Chinese students pursuing undergraduate and graduate degrees abroad, especially in the United States. He also touches on the various stages of this trend, starting with Chinese students seeking doctoral programs overseas and later expanding to undergraduate programs.

The podcast delves into the differences between teaching styles in the West and East, highlighting the smaller class sizes and active communication in Western universities compared to the more lecture-focused approach in many Eastern institutions. Dr. Zhou suggests that educators and student affairs professionals should understand these cultural differences and proactively support international students in adapting to the new learning environment.

Dr. Zhou encourages student affairs professionals to be patient and understanding when working with students from different cultural backgrounds. He explains that while students from Asia may initially appear passive, they are actively processing information and sometimes take longer to initiate help-seeking behavior due to cultural differences.

The podcast concludes with Dr. Zhou emphasizing that international students can be valuable assets to higher education programs, as they bring strong work ethics and a commitment to academic excellence. He also highlights the need for international students to develop skills for navigating diverse and complex educational systems, which can differ significantly from their home countries.

This episode offers valuable insights for student affairs professionals and educators, providing a better understanding of the challenges and opportunities that come with the internationalization of higher education and the diverse cultural backgrounds of students.

Please subscribe to SA Voices from the Field on your favorite podcasting device and share the podcast with other student affairs colleagues!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]:

Welcome to Student Affairs Voices From the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 9 on transitions in student affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, And I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Welcome back to another episode of SA Voices from the Field, where today I'm delighted to bring you a conversation with an accomplished university professor from the University of Macau. Isoo Cho is an associate professor at the faculty of education and by courtesy, the department of sociology at the University of Macau. He earned his PhD team from Michigan State University's College of Education. Joe's doctoral dissertation focused on the teaching profession, specifically out of field teachers and utilize a large scale survey from OECD. Before attending MSU, Joe received his bachelor's degree in statistics from East China Normal University and worked as an English teacher in rural Shanxi province from 2005 to 2006, where his passion for understanding the educational process bloomed.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:06]:

Joel employs a sociological perspective when examining various policy issues, including school finance, teacher professionalization, and higher education cation reform. His work has been published in Discourse, Sociological Methods and Research, Chinese Sociological Review, international journal of educational development, and other notable journals. Zhou has also been feasted on various Chinese media outlets, such as the paper Peng Pai Xing Wen, Beijing News, Xing Jing Bao, and China Newsweek, Zhongguo Xing Wen, Zhoukan. In the University of Macau community. Joe is deeply committed to teaching and service. He created the 1st generation course aimed at raising global awareness for undergraduate students across all majors and departments. And with an innovative approach to nurturing students from diverse backgrounds, this course is widely accepted by those students and running at full capacity every year. Professionally, he's actively engaged across the university and scholarly community, and he received the outstanding reviewer award from occasional researcher in 2015.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:04]:

Joel's service work reflected his thinking of higher education as an ecology of knowledge experts. He's penned a 5 year strategic plan, advise on a library strategic plan, and architected a doctoral of education program. He is the recent recipient of the faculty service award for 2017, 18, and also so 21/22. Isu, we're so glad to have you on the show today.

Yisu Zhou [00:02:25]:

Thank you very much for having me, Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:27]:

And even better for me that we're in the same time zone, that as a gift I don't get on the show a lot. Yes. Yes. You had lots of international people appearing on our show.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:35]:

And you're at the University of Macau, how so folks know listeners who are not familiar with the geography of China. Macau is in the southern part of China. It's a beautifully warm place. It's also famous for casinos, amongst other things.

Yisu Zhou [00:02:48]:

Like Orento, Las Vegas, if you want a short metaphor.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:52]:

You can even go to, like, the MGM in The Venetian in Macau.

Yisu Zhou [00:02:55]:

It's actually the same.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:56]:

But that is not the reason you're in Macau. No. So So we're glad to talk to you today about your experiences as a professor of higher education studies. And normally, I think our listeners are exposed to professors of higher ed who are pretty western centric. So this is a great opportunity to learn more about higher education and the study of higher cation in Asia. But before we talk about your expertise in the transformations and transitions of higher ed in China, I'd love to talk to you first about how you became a professor.

Yisu Zhou [00:03:25]:

Oh, yeah. No problem.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:27]:

So what's the story?

Yisu Zhou [00:03:29]:

I think you can say part of that is is running through the family. So both my Parents are academe, working in the, academia, which give me some exposure to how institutions work in the Chinese setting when I was little. But I I didn't actually made up my mind before well, I think well into my PhD program. When I grow up, I wanna be a scientist. So I think in college, I study, statistics. So, kind of the applied field of, mathematics in a sense that I wanna things, and, I wanna run data. I'm really interested in data as a kid, when I grow up. But, after college, I also wanna get some exposure about Interacting with people.

Yisu Zhou [00:04:07]:

I'm kind of, you know, in that, gap sort of a mentality, that I'm interesting a lot of things, but I really I had a mid in my mind about what I'm going to commit my life to doing. So I spent a year actually teaching in a rural village in the Western China, which kind of a place they have a poverty line, which give me a lot of experience working with, rural children, rural parents. And I taught English at 6th grade, in that particular school, for the year. So I really start to think about how I can observe social life, Particularly school life. That is, I I think the main motivation and the main sort of event that, direct me toward a study of education. So after that year, I went to the United States. I, went to Michigan State to do my PhD degree. I first Enrolled in, psychometric program because of my statistics background, and people really want me to contribute to that.

Yisu Zhou [00:05:03]:

And after 2 years, I found that my passion and my interest has, sort of shifted toward international and competitive education. So I'm trained as an international comparative, educator in my PhD program. And, well, Macau sort of come as a supply because I am the part of the, post, What we call, 2008 survivors of the, economic meltdown so that many, US universities, freeze hiring during the time. It's been actually, they fed. It's quite, last quite, for some time. So when I was in the job market in 2011, The the domestic job market is basically so competitive that there are only very handful places openings in that particular year. So when I was searching the catalog job postings on Chronicle, this place called University Macau sort of, appeared in my search. I actually have never heard of this university before, And this is really a new experience.

Yisu Zhou [00:05:59]:

I know places in Hong Kong because they are more established. They have university of Hong Kong and Chinese university of Hong Kong are the 2 sort of the star universities in a region, and people already know that. But never heard of University of Macau. So I did a little bit of research. I think, well, maybe I should try that mostly because it's close to home And it's an international environment which allows me to conduct international research and to teach in English and, had the opportunity to with a lot of, international colleagues. And, well, when I I didn't expect a lot, you know, when I submit my application, but think, like, 2, 3 weeks later, I got a call from my former dean, and he says, he just moved from, University of Virginia, actually, to Macau. And he's really looking for people who have received a very rigorous American style academic training to work with him. So, you know, we had a nice conversation.

Yisu Zhou [00:06:48]:

And he invited me over for a job talk. And, well, the rest is history.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:53]:

And you have since become quite an accomplished publisher share amongst many other things. I would encourage all of you to go look up Zhou Isu on, Google Scholar. You can see he's just got quite picture related to education in the Chinese region. But thinking about what you're studying now, what's your focus now in your work?

Yisu Zhou [00:07:12]:

So because I'm getting older and my also my role with inside institutions sort of transitioned toward more of the administrative side, I've been involving a lot of, program administration, my faculty administration, and, of course, some university side of business, which I think it give me a kinda unique Sort of an insider perspective in terms to understand how institution work. So my interest gradually shifts toward this institutional perspective about university, I think higher, education because my current working situation and the network I've been building because of my professional lives. So I think recent years, my interest gradually shift toward, understanding, higher education development in China, in Particular internationalization of higher education in China. I think that's one thing currently I'm doing some research at the moment.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:00]:

The institution I'm working for currently is a great example of internationalization.

Yisu Zhou [00:08:05]:

Exactly. I really had a privilege and opportunity to visit DKU during the summer. And it's really impressed me and opened my mind. We have so much to learn from you guys, a top elite private institution and working in China And catering to a lot of Chinese student demand and, to really establish yourself as an em embracer of this movement of, internationalization of higher ed in China.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:29]:

And the joint venture universities in China are varieties of years old. We have a neighbor, Shaqingqiao, Liverpool, which is much to older than us, but our closest most similar university, NYU Shanghai, is the same age as us, and that's a decade. So it's to a wide variety. There's also the University of Nottingham Ningbo down the road, which, again, also much older than us, Wenjoking, and then some that are younger than us like Tianjin Juilliard. So it's all over the map.

Yisu Zhou [00:08:54]:

Yeah. It is. It's it's all over the map. And I think from a policy perspective, China really sort of embraced In, multifaceted, you can say, strategies in terms of working with international partners. We have American University, European University, Right. Coming to China, setting up joint ventures. There are also several, Hong Kong institutions. They have different levels of cooperation in China.

Yisu Zhou [00:09:16]:

Right. They have joint ventures. They have sites like campus. But most of them actually have a research institution set up in China.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:22]:

So let's go back and think about the transition of the movement to begin opening doors for internationalization of education in this part of the world. What can you tell us about that history?

Yisu Zhou [00:09:34]:

I think from our perspective, there is a demand and the, sort of, the need for a high Quality, higher education really came, dates back to early 2000 when, economically, China took off, Which cultivated a very strong local base of parents who have done business with, western, partners, Or they have traveled the world. They have seen places elsewhere, and because of free flow of information allows them to understand and to see how Western education sort of, opens up a different kind of possibility for their child. So I think this is so, you know, if if if you count that, it's been about 20 years up to this point. And I think we can divide it into, like, several stages because at first, it's most about sending your kids overseas. And that trend first started with the PhD programs because most parents just cannot afford, Right. A 4 year, college life for their kids in the United States. And the PhD and some master program, they do offer very generous, scholarships For those academically talented Chinese students, so you know? But the the numbers are usually not very large, right, because their Resources is all are always limited. And then starting, I think, a decade into the 1st decade of 21st century, really sees that Chinese parents, they, they become richer, and the opportunities really open up.

Yisu Zhou [00:11:05]:

Because if we count the kind of international program that is available to Chinese student, Australia and the UK are the 1st large market that sort of opens fully embrace, you know, to the, Chinese student, and they embrace them very Politically in the US because the selectivity and different tiers and such large and diverse system also is very attractive gradually to Chinese student. And because I I think one big attraction about the US higher education is this economy. It's so robust and it's so diverse, which means the student can always think about, right, what I can do after graduation. That, you know, if you go to some smaller places, 2, 3 years later, you need to find a job. Right? And that might not be enough those kind of high quality jobs around. So I think the the 2010 really sees kind of a a higher peak for Chinese student, undergraduate student going overseas. And, of course, this trend also spill over to other segments. So we also, you know, if you read the news, there are Private high schools, in US or even public schools, they cater to international student.

Yisu Zhou [00:12:13]:

Chinese student, of course, because of the large number, A Korean student, a Japanese student, a student from Middle East, you know, these places where they see a large economic booms and a student wants to have an different opportunities. So I think that sort of these trends sort of coalesced together, making the 2nd decade of 21st century really, really is about international students going into US and going into other western market sort of in large numbers.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:40]:

So with that transition of of this trend of students going abroad, when they come back with those skills, How has that impacted always of life, always of being with that education and skill set coming back?

Yisu Zhou [00:12:54]:

I think from my own traction with students and my observations with private business owners or, just talking to graduates coming, you know, Having obtained a western education degree, I think this is really a process of different cultures kind of, mingling together And creating a kind of a hybrid person that they many Chinese students still have a very strong Chinese identity, you know, growing up And coming back to home, but their years, in America, in Australia, or in other places sort of open up their horizon in a sense that they understand, Things such as diversity, things such as, critical thinking. These things are not did not play such an important role in a domestic higher education. So, You know, when we compare them and with their friends who didn't choose to go to abroad.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:45]:

And we have some incredible universities around this region as well places like Tsinghua, Peking, Pudong, etcetera. What do you see as the biggest difference between the different styles of teaching in the undergraduate frame.

Yisu Zhou [00:13:58]:

1st, I I think the institutional setting is really different. Right? So the one thing with DKU and, and, for instance, NYU really struck me is the how small the class size are. The class size are really small, which means individual instructor can give a sort of a tailored Or individualized time to a student to catering to a wide range of needs. Right? Questions you can ask a question immediately. All Almost always. Right? And you can get instant feedback on these kind of things. But I think in China, kind of a broader if you wanna situate this question in border eastern Asian context, A kind of lecture style larger classroom is the standard format of teaching and learning. And in that kind of format, Students' own diligence and their own hardworking is kind of required by default.

Yisu Zhou [00:14:46]:

So no matter what kind of questions you Have you need to think about the solution your by yourself first. This is the, like, your first option. And then if you can solve it, maybe you can try to look for help from the instructor. Right. So the teacher's role really different because of such large classrooms and because I think mainly towards in century old kind of educational philosophy about how people should learn. But I think the, institutions such as DKU and, like I said, NYU, they offer us a different kind of possibility of how teachers can interact with student and how teacher a student can learn. And based on my Oh, understanding. Student really love that.

Yisu Zhou [00:15:23]:

And, that sort of enriched their experience and helped them to overcome a lot of, difficulties, I didn't go study.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:30]:

You've also been an international student yourself, and I'm wondering if you have any advice for our student affairs professionals who are listening on how best to support tuning into US education or US study or even just living in a new country.

Yisu Zhou [00:15:44]:

I think study abroad is really a very important lesson of my life. I have a lot of struggles, but I think overall, it is a very positive experience. I think for, student affairs, colleagues working in the US, you need to understand that student from the east and China and other parts of the, Asia, they're coming from quite different cultural background, Which means the student are accustomed to the kind of expectations in their home country or home culture. Most of these places sort of a Student are expected to follow an authority to not to sort of challenge the authority and not to break or to question the the rules the rules of the classroom, the rules of the institution, or even interhuman kind of, rules. So they might seem like these student are a little bit passive. I think the student, taking myself as an animal, we're always actively thinking about the situation, trying to decode a situation. It's just that our experience situate us through a certain kind of conditions that we Convinced essentially our mind convinced us, oh, you shouldn't ask this question at this particular time. You should find another, point.

Yisu Zhou [00:16:52]:

But I think in the US, it's always the communication part is always real time. Right? You can always throw a question. You can always seek any clarification. You can always seek help. This is not something embarrassing. This is actually supported. And, many institutions actually have developed and have very capable professionals to try to help student to do that. But I think the first step is I mean, the the expectation is the student need to make the first move.

Yisu Zhou [00:17:19]:

Right. They need to go out to reach out to seek clarifications, but that first move sometimes can happen quite late. Not the first day of the orientation may be not even the 1st day of the class. Might you know, it happened 2 or 3 weeks after class sort of started After some, after the student is confident enough that they convince themselves they have interpreted the situation correctly, and then they they trying to go out to say, Hey. I can't I don't really understand this. Can you really help me? So I think a lot of hand holding and to opening up yourself to the international student is really something very important.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:53]:

I really appreciate that advice because the perspective taking of what I might expect from an authority figure in my home country is truly very different in the US compared to a lot of cultures in this part of the world, which means that help seeking behavior here that we're always trying to draw out of our students. We might need to go an extra step or 3 in order to explain why that's appropriate and why that is culturally spected.

Yisu Zhou [00:18:17]:

My own experience tells me that in many cases, in the question and answer sessions, in orientation, in a big event When we sort of prepare a lot of materials, we tell the students, sometimes we don't receive sort of a warm kind of a response It which might happen actually in the US context. Right? The US student are most time, they are very active, and they won't hesitate to throw questions at you. But in this Part of the world, sometimes the student a little wants to sit back and they want to deliver their questions in different channels. So that's something I think for any student affairs officers or people who travel, to this part of the world to teach and to engage with student, I think they should realize That's kind of the cultural difference.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:00]:

Are there any other thoughts you'd like to share on the transitions of higher education that you study in in China, in East Asia, or just any thoughts for our mostly western audience.

Yisu Zhou [00:19:09]:

I think the Chinese student and many, Asian student, they will be a big asset to the program. These are hard workers, and they sort of really cherish the kind of, academic excellence because they have been expected to perform at relatively high level since they're a kid. The kind of things I think they will learn, and definitely, I think that's that's something they should learn, is the communication skills, the kind of skills how to navigate themselves in a very complex system from the studies of a competitive education. This is one takeaway message that US education system is so different. A comprehensive high school system actually gave the student quite early on experience. I mean, It's not all positive, but it gives most student experience to navigate through a bunch of peers, which are heterogeneous. Right? And they have very diverse interest, And they formed little clicks, and then you need to find your best friend and find the resources and to find the teachers that you can work with. And most Asian students, they don't actually learn that until the university level because they have been segmented in a sort of uniformly set up format throughout a lower secondary an upper secondary school.

Yisu Zhou [00:20:19]:

So this is really a challenge for them. That is for them to develop the kind of skills to work in a diverse environment.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:27]:

And that's not to say 1 is better or worse than the other, just the systems are entirely unique and different.

Yisu Zhou [00:20:33]:

Exactly.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:34]:

And that means the students are coming with different skill sets. So you might have, you know, 1 student who's better at help seeking behavior, but the other who is just quite a lot better at absorbing information. And it just depends on the strength that we need in the moment.

Yisu Zhou

Definitely.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:46]:

It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Christopher Lewis [00:20:52]:

Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world. And as always, there's a ton of things happening in NASPA, and I always love being able to share with you Some of the great things that are happening. The 2024 Dungey Leadership Institute DOI faculty application is currently live. The Dungey Leadership Institute is a signature initiative of the NASPA undergraduate fellows program with the following learning outcomes for fellows gaining Foundational knowledge of the history and functions of student affairs in higher education, gain knowledge of contemporary issues in higher education, Participate in intergroup dialogue around issues of equity and social justice, collaborate with peers to research and present ethical resolutions to current administrative and leadership issues in student affairs. Reflect on and articulate the influence of personal identities and histories on effective student affairs leadership and engage in professional networking with student affairs faculty and administrators. DLI directors, selected faculty members, and NASPA staff plan this 6 day leadership institute to develop leadership skills, enhance cultural competency, and prepare fellows for a career in student affairs. Specifically, faculty will colead a cluster of 8 to 10 students through the DLI experience And provide support to all students attending the institute.

Christopher Lewis [00:22:16]:

Travel, meals, and housing are provided by NASPA and our host institutions. Faculty within this program are all current NASPA members. Applicants need to have at least 5 full time years of professional experience post your masters at the time of application. NEUF alumni are also eligible to apply with at least 2 years of professional experience post masters. If you apply for this, you must be available June 20th through 26, 2024 for the actual institute. You can apply through Friday, November 13th, and go to the NASPA website to be able to submit your demographic information, your resume or CV application questions and reference information for consideration. NASBA is currently looking for committee members For the mid level administrators steering committee. In 2022, NASPA established the mid level administrators A steering committee to partner with NASPA staff to shape the ongoing development of NASPA's mid level initiatives.

Christopher Lewis [00:23:17]:

The steering committee works To ensure that mid level relevant programs are offered during regional and national events, NASPA's mid level administrator steering committee Strives to encourage excellence in the mid level positions through professional development, knowledge creation and sharing, networking opportunities, and recognition aimed at the roles of mid level administrators. The steering committee is comprised of 24 mid level administrators who serve at A wide variety of institutional types throughout NASPA's 7 regions. Steering committee members will serve staggered to your terms. If this sounds like something that you're interested in, I highly encourage you to go to the NASPA website to learn more about this. Typically, the time commitment is about 2 to 3 hours per month. I highly encourage you to consider this. Think about it as an opportunity to be able to give back to the association And help to steer NASPA toward providing quality professional development opportunities for mid level professionals. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association.

Christopher Lewis [00:24:23]:

So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within One of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself Where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey. I see myself In that knowledge community, I see myself doing something like that or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to Think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, All of us are stronger, and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:44]:

Another wonderful NASPA world segment from you, producer Chris. Thank you again and again for giving us the updates on what's going on in and around NASPA. Alright. Isu, we have come to our lightning round. I have 7 questions for you to answer in about 90 seconds. You ready?

Yisu Zhou [00:26:01]:

Wow. I'm ready. Yes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:03]:

Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Yisu Zhou [00:26:09]:

It's gotta be Oasis. I've been a fan since 1994.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:13]:

Number 2. When you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Yisu Zhou [00:26:17]:

A scientist.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:18]:

Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Yisu Zhou [00:26:21]:

I gotta be my PhD supervisor, Amita Sugar. Professor Sugar, if you're listening, you really made my world. You've taught me about professionalism with and care to the student, a true role model.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:33]:

Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Yisu Zhou [00:26:36]:

I think any educator will benefit and read from John Dewey. I've been rereading Dewey a lot for our research project. And for nonfiction, actually, this summer, I've been reading a lot of La La Gwynne. She's my favorite American author, and her fantasy series, Earthsea, really gives this kind of a feminist kind of a perspective about how to approach different people.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:55]:

Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic.

Yisu Zhou [00:26:59]:

The slow horses on Apple TV starring Gary Old man.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:03]:

Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Yisu Zhou [00:27:07]:

Okay. There are 2. So there is a Chinese podcast. It's called left You're right. It's a very good conversational kind of intellectual podcast. The English podcast I spend most of time I think it's from NPR. I'm a big fan of their all sounds considerate Podcast. I've been I've been following them for over a decade.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:23]:

And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional?

Yisu Zhou [00:27:27]:

I wanna give a shout out to my student, my master and PhD student. No matter if if you are crunching numbers in your little cube or doing field interviews or working on Guys, I hope really hope that you've been enjoying the studies in these universities or anywhere in the world.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:43]:

It's been a wonderful and donating conversation today. I know I learned a lot from you. I'm sure that others have as well. If anyone would like to contact you after the show, how can they find you?

Yisu Zhou [00:27:52]:

I think the easiest way is to To search my name, Yisu Zhou on Twitter. I have a Twitter handle. You can also send me an email by, yisuzhou@gmail.com.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:00]:

Thank you so much, Isoo, for sharing your voice with us today.

Yisu Zhou [00:28:03]:

Really happy to be here. Thank you for hosting me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:07]:

This has been an episode of SA voices from the field brought to you by NASPA. This show is always made possible because of you, our listeners. We are so grateful that you continue to listen to us season after season. If you'd Like to reach the show, you can always email us at essay voices at NASPA.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and topic and especially your guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show, and please like, rate, and review us on Apple podcast, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us become more visible in the larger podcasting community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:47]:

This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill L. Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Assistance by Lu Yongru. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

View Details

In this episode of "Student Affairs Voices from the Field," Dr. Jill Creighton welcomes Brian Medina, the director of Bias Incident Support Services at the University of Maryland, College Park, for a conversation on transitions in Student Affairs. Brian, an openly queer genderqueer and Latinx sexual assault survivor with multiple disabilities, discusses zir journey and experiences.

Brian started zir career in student affairs in resident life and student conduct, eventually transitioning into the Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) space. They emphasize the importance of authenticity and finding one's true self in the workplace, highlighting the role of supportive colleagues and institutions in this process.

They also share zir experience of transitioning in terms of gender presentation, including using gender-neutral pronouns (zee/zir) and embracing a more authentic self, both personally and professionally. Brian's journey has been marked by self-discovery, self-acceptance, and gaining the confidence to bring zir full self to work, which has been transformative.

Brian discusses the evolving landscape of bias response work in higher education and its intersection with Title IX regulations. They emphasize the importance of building solidarity across different identities and experiencing intersectionality in tackling power-based violence.

The conversation also touches on the regional differences in student affairs work and the impact of state legislation on diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts in higher education.

Brian reflects on zir transition from a career in residence life to DEI work, highlighting the challenges and successes along the way. They acknowledge the frustrations of job searching and the importance of resilience in navigating the field.

As co-chair elect of the NASPA Gender and Sexuality Knowledge Community (KC), Brian talks about the KC's activities and its commitment to expanding its reach by collaborating with other KCs, fostering inclusivity, and encouraging involvement from a diverse range of professionals in the field.

Brian wraps up the conversation by encouraging listeners to embrace transitions as part of life's journey and to remember the resilience and progress made by previous generations in creating a more inclusive world.

Overall, this episode explores the theme of transitions in higher education, emphasizing the importance of authenticity, self-discovery, and solidarity in the field of student affairs. It also highlights the evolving nature of diversity, equity, and inclusion work and the significance of regional context in higher education.

Please subscribe to SA Voices from the Field on your favorite podcasting device and share the podcast with other student affairs colleagues!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]:

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:31]:

Brian has been a social justice activist within higher education for nearly two decades. Brian has worked in New Hampshire, Maryland, Ohio, and is now the director of Bias Incident Support Services at the University of Maryland, College Park. As an openly queer genderqueer and Latinx sexual assault survivor with multiple disabilities, zee advocates for marginalized communities to center those harmed by systemic oppression and trauma. Brian is also the co chair elect of the NASPA gender and sexuality knowledge community. Brian. Welcome to the pod.

Brian Medina [00:01:04]:

Thank you. Lovely to be with you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:06]:

I'm so glad to talk to you today about your transition story. When we reached out to the KC leaders in NASPA, your response was one of the ones that immediately stood out because you've had so many experiences with transition in the last couple of years and we always love to start by getting to know our guests. You're at UMD now you're also leading in the KC space. So what was your come up both in the student affairs realm as well as in the KC realm?

Brian Medina [00:01:31]:

Thank you for asking. Brian Medina z here and heres and coming up through resident life and student conduct and then also now being in the De I space, the last three years have certainly been a journey. I wouldn't have said if you asked me when I first started my career where I would end up. This would be where it would be. And I'm so grateful and delighted that I can be in this space, particularly, actually, in some ways, very connected, the KC space. I started out with the gender and sexuality casey, different name at the time. And then have been involved with multiple other tam KC. Menamasculinities KC.

Brian Medina [00:02:06]:

And trying to really see the kind of connectedness of not just the work that I do, but my full existence and my dignity and an authentic self, not just at work, but beyond as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:38]:

One thing you just introduced really resonates with me, which is how do you find your authentic self and feel like you can show up with your whole being at work every day? You mentioned your pronouns are z here, hears. And then also when you reached out to us, you let us know you've had some transitions in your gender presentation in the last couple of years. So I'm wondering if you're willing to tell us about how that impacted your ability to show up at work finally as your whole self and also what you want the profession to know about supporting other professionals who are going through that transition.

Brian Medina [00:03:07]:

It's a wonderful question. Thank you. For me, over the past decade or more, I have been out as genderqueer. I've been using these pronouns z here and heres for about eight of those years. And I will say that it's been mostly in the last three, three and a half years. Although, obviously, that's overlapping with our COVID existence. That being in space, certainly virtually, but in physical space with folks to explore a bit about, my body to check in with and fortunately, with my university, my supervisor, my colleagues. Have been so supportive and really showing up for me and alongside me in zir own authentic selves, thus giving me in some way, some invitation and welcoming space.

Brian Medina [00:03:46]:

So, yeah, the last couple of years have certainly been an exploration of I'm extending myself with I wear dresses now exclusively. And I wouldn't have said that four or five years ago, wearing dangly earrings, as I have on right now, and I wouldn't have said that a few years ago. And for me, it has been a combination of both the opportunity and the kind of welcoming space that I have at my current institution. But I will say that some of it has come more internally of feeling confident to be able to bring my full self and share and support various populations on campus in a different way. And it has been the best part of my life over these last couple of years, for sure.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:20]:

Part of our theme of transitions on this season of the Pod is really thinking about transitions from all perspectives. And you are really our first guest who's come on this season to talk about that internal transition as the biggest driver for other areas of success. So let's hear more about what that internal transition has done for you in terms of your professional development internally.

Brian Medina [00:04:42]:

I think another factor that I want to make mention here is that I'm also a student in the School of Social Work at the University of Maryland, Baltimore, and that has coincided a good bit with my work related activities and certainly my responsibilities. I'm in charge of all bias response for the entire campus. And I will say that showing up in classroom settings, in one sense, showing up in work settings has caused me to reflect right, not just on an intellectual basis, but a true connection with my body, checking in with other folks and how they're feeling in space as we talk about marginalization writ large. And so that internal processing for me has been ongoing, for sure it has been over decades. But I will say the last couple of years I've had the encouragement and the kind of exploration also with a really good therapist and some good friends who've checked in on me and kind of allowed me that space to be able to express myself and therefore I'm much more readily interested and be able to explore that with them as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:36]:

I think the work you're doing at UMD is really difficult work. Right. You're looking into all areas of bias, and we've seen a lot of transition in the way that we're managing our university and institutional responses to that work in the last couple of years. And we're also expecting a major Title IX rule drop to change and rock our worlds one more time. I'm really crossing my fingers. It's the last time that doed makes that happen. But can you talk about your transitions in that space as well, given the way we talk about bias and response to bias now is just really different than even the way we would have framed it in 2013.

Brian Medina [00:06:10]:

Yeah, my first inclination and thinking is as you're referencing the regulations coming out for Title Nine soon, and in 2011 when I first really started doing work around sexual misconduct and sexual response, sexual assault response, that was kind of on the earlier days of me even coming out as a survivor of sexual violence. And so thinking about that transition coming out in a different lens than it would be in a queer space, and then kind of maybe a couple of years later sharing about my gender identity and sexual orientation as well, I think they really combined. And it was at a time and place, I think, in our society where there was a lot of momentum and drive to make change, but also maybe a lot of confusion as to what that meant. We got this guidance, but what does that apply? How do we actually launch programs and offices and Title IX offices? And even for De and I spaces, many offices didn't see the interrelationship of power based violence, sexual violence, as well as how that affected queer folks, BIPOC folks very uniquely. So, I will say over these last couple of years in that space, specifically in this kind of back and forth. Back and forth because of administrations and certainly across the country, many states who are enacting legislation to harm a whole host of populations, including trans folks. I will say that I think the center of mine for me has been building solidarity across difference rather than this simply being a movement inside one's identity, but across identities, folks that experience similar harms. So I'll use the comparison with sexual violence work.

Brian Medina [00:07:43]:

Being a survivor, I've actually been a volunteer for the largest national group, reign as a sexual violence hotline. I've been a volunteer for eleven years there, and that work and supporting survivors uniquely on a hotline like that has been so instrumental for me to be able to hold space, provide space, resources, checking in with folks who are experiencing other identity based harms like anti blackness, like anti trans sentiment on our campuses. So I see them as very much connected as how we address trauma by holding space and support for folks uniquely in zir identities, but also seeing that we are more full amongst one another rather than just in ourselves.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:24]:

You've transitioned also all over the country. You've been in the Midwest and the East Coast and a couple of other places. Do you see the work shifting its orientation or its priorities as you move around the country?

Brian Medina [00:08:36]:

Absolutely. And I think that many of my peers and friends in the field would acknowledge that depending on what state you're in or region of the country you're in, not only does the state legislation afford or deny you opportunities, and access within your identities and your existence. It also kind of more broadly provides either a chilling effect or an emboldening effect for folks to make change, to do programmatic risks that maybe they wouldn't have taken some other spaces. So I'll note a couple of pieces. When I first started off in resident life, it was up in New Hampshire, a very white space, but also progressive in some areas around sustainability, not so much around racial justice. And so I really entangled that because most of our students of color were student athletes and trying to navigate how to support students uniquely in zir identities but also seeing the friction that they're finding in the community was very much top of mind. And that actually aligned very similarly to my experience in Ohio in a very rural white space. Whereas in Maryland, being a much more perceivably progressive state, I found a much different experience where folks were much more open, interested in gaining resources and also promoting a bit more progressive ideals to support marginalized populations than I had in the other spaces.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:49]:

That must really shift where you put energy in terms of training for your campus community and also how you're able to frame responses. So with that all kind of put together, what is the common thread between all of those experiences?

Brian Medina [00:10:05]:

I don't know if I can pull out one specific common thread. One of the things that I came to find early on in the career. Granted, I was in resident life spaces and so I was often doing social justice or de. And I work on the side either for RA trainings or for recruitments, doing programming, advising on the side from what folks perceived as a generalist position that I had to do many other things. And I'd say that that common thread of showing empathy, compassion, concern for the other. I was also a philosophy major, so I should share that from the share there from the get go that as a philosophy major I was always intuiting and thinking through and processing and reflecting. And now as a social work student, kind of that common thread around psychology and caring for full well being, if there is a common thread, it really is seeing the fullness of one of many of society as interconnected and there be no way for us to completely disconnect that from one another. And so in these various career points I would say that De I and social justice was a common thread, even if it wasn't my actual position, responsibility.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:10]:

Societal structures and pressures are fairly consistent within the culture of the United States. They can be similar to neighboring countries. I can tell you from my own experience living in Asia now our structures around justice and our concepts around justice, marginalization, oppression, they don't apply at all here. It's the wildest thing to break my brain in that way and to stop looking at certain situations through my Americanized justice perspective has been a real interesting challenge. And I've come to the conclusion that dei work is so important in the US. Because of the structures of the way the organizational kind of hierarchies are created in the US. And then when I got here, it was like square pay, ground hole. Some of the concepts are similar in terms of wealth, wealth gap and things like that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:55]:

But the idea of race is different here because it is kind of a fairly monoracial society. Ethnicity plays a much larger role. Individual achievement stands out even though it's a collectivist society. It's so fascinating. So it's interesting to hear you talk about it from that lens as well. I wanted to hear more about your transition from a res life professional to deib professional. More or less that res life space is one you occupied for 15 years, and a lot of times it can be both difficult from a job search perspective and difficult from an emotional perspective to leave res life and to go into other areas of higher education. So tell us about that.

Brian Medina [00:12:31]:

I appreciate this invitation and in all vulnerability and honesty, that road was filled with potholes and filled with roadblocks and filled with turns and detours. If you would have asked me when I first started my career if I would have been in res life for 15 years, I would have said absolutely not. That didn't make any sense, there's no way. But as I continued to grow in that, being on call was always a challenge. But I will say that I adapted to it. Different institutional structures. Being going from a smaller private liberal arts college in New Hampshire to then a more mid sized institution of Towson University in Maryland allowed me, I think, a different perspective because there's a much different resourced institution, public institution. I will say that part of my journey, because of thinking about this and around going to De I work specifically at Towson.

Brian Medina [00:13:20]:

That was where I came out in a lot of settings. That's where I found student groups that even though I wasn't a student, I was advising a couple of student groups within the queer community. I was attending social justice retreats and then helping to facilitate them. And so I think that even though I was very heavily as a position as a resident life director, being in Res Life, I was very much tapped into the ethos and the mores of deib in a way that I don't think most of my peers had access to. And that was a privilege that I had, but also something I sought after. Folks had kind of encouraged me and mentored me. I will say, as I continued through my Res Life career going on to be Assistant Director, then Director, associate Dean in Res Life, each of those elements of social justice had a ring to it, but it was mostly in those other institutions because they were smaller. Me bringing it to those institutions rather than me learning as I had at Towson and now being at University of Maryland, being the largest state school in the state, being at a place know, recently give them a little bit of props, they recently were named number one for LGBT students.

Brian Medina [00:14:18]:

Acceptance across the country from the Campus Pride Index. To see that there's not only an acceptance and embrace about who I am and my fullness, but also that students can get that experience also brings me joy. So I'll say that some of that transition from Res Life to Edib was organic in its own. And if I were to admit to you, I applied to many Res Life jobs to be a senior leader within ResLife and got turned down. And so there's much about failure as it was success throughout the process.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:49]:

That's a really important message in that job search transition. There are so many reasons that maybe the universe is pointing us in some directions sometimes, and other times it's just really, really frustrating. So I just want to give a shout out to all of you who are trying to make that next move up in the student affairs funnel. It is a real, real challenge when you're moving from that mid level professional and that assistant and associate director to that director space, because that funnel gets really, really tight at that level of organization. So I just want to cheer you on a little bit and let you know that I empathize. I understand.

Brian Medina [00:15:18]:

And you got this agreed. We can do this together.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:21]:

I want to chat a little bit about the gender and sexuality. Casey, you're currently occupying a co chair seat. Can you tell us more about the hopes for this year's KC activities, what spaces you're providing, and really how listeners and NAFA members can also find authentic space for themselves in the KC?

Brian Medina [00:15:41]:

I would certainly shout out to Antonio and Clint, our current KC chairs. I'm actually the chair elect. I'll be taking on this starting in March. But a lot of those responsibilities we've been sharing throughout this year as a know, as a small group that have really cared for one another, not just in terms of the tasks that we do for conferences and programs and receptions that is all important, but really holding space for each other throughout the year. When something is tragic on one campus, it's tragic for the rest of us as well and also uplifting. So going back to the job search process, when we see folks promoted or getting new positions, we also hold folks in that celebration and joy. One of the things that I'm really looking forward to in the gender and sexuality Casey is the expansion for us to connect with other KCS in collaborations. So the last few KC chair rotations have been a building up of that of building relationships with the Latinx Aokc, indigenous peoples, KC Wisa, women XKC, and to be able to see us as a gender sexuality KC be as kind of a point to various intersectional identities.

Brian Medina [00:16:43]:

To hold space within the KC, but also across NASPA and different other KC spaces has been a joy. I anticipate even more so as the years to come. So that's one of the target interests that I have. So folks listening out there want to get involved and they're eh this KC may be all one identity or maybe kind of stereotypically all gay white men. It is very much not at this point and certainly won't be in the future. We're recruiting a lot of folks and we'd love to have you as a part of that revolution toward more broadening of queerness.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:12]:

You also did an Essay Speaks very recently. Can you tell us, especially for those who are unfamiliar first, what is Essay speaks and how can folks find your conversation?

Brian Medina [00:17:22]:

Essay Speaks starting with what it is. It really is equivalent to what a Ted Talk would look like. So it's a ten to twelve minute talk. It's an opportunity for presenters. Rather than sharing kind of research or anything like that, it's really integrating our stories of who we are alongside kind of takeaways for audience members. And this is at the annual conference itself. So this past year in Boston and April I did share that from the topic of embodying gender fluidity, which in some ways is very relevant to the topic we're talking about in transition. I shared a bit of my journey over the course of my career and how I presented myself in my gender, how my gender fluidity and gender queerness have shown up in workspaces, but also other spaces given interest to anybody in the audience, those that are listening.

Brian Medina [00:18:05]:

And the video is out there if you want to check it out. NASPA has that available for folks to explore on zir own campuses, where they can advocate alongside zir trans non binary colleagues and students seeking some opportunities for healing. But also some joy along the ride. So I really encourage, if folks want to check that out, please do. So. Going into just sharing about that experience, jill and I shared off script a little bit about how different, how so much goes beyond the production and so much goes into the planning of this was a nine month planning cycle of creating a twelve minute sharing of one soul and heart. And so for me, it was a lot of work. I also have multiple disabilities, but one disability impacts my speaking when I'm public speaking.

Brian Medina [00:18:47]:

And so for me to put myself out there on the stage with hundreds watching, other thousands perhaps watching at home at some point was super nerve wracking, especially when a lot of complications happen last minute. So I just want to firm for those folks out in the audience that may be fearful to do these kind of speaking engagements. I am with you. I was there, and I certainly encourage you if you would like to have another support as you're exploring this opportunity to tell your story and who you are in your fullness. I would love to be there alongside you for that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:16]:

Brian, any other thoughts on the theme of transitions in higher ed or for yourself as a human?

Brian Medina [00:19:22]:

I guess I'd love to share a little bit about how transitions, fluidity, as I just was talking about gender, fluidity transitions are happening all the time, right? We talk about transitions for our students coming in and off campus, graduating and going off about zir lives, transitions for us in the job market, transitions as I shared about gender and understanding how I present myself. But I want to encourage so much of our talk about transitions, talk about the tense, the tenseness and kind of feeling of anxiety that is present there. It's the fear, and some of it rightfully so because of our world and how much we can be harmed in that transition and showing who we are. But I also never want to forget how much we are taking upon our ancestors to get to where we are today. The transition of a more human wide transition to be in a place and space where I can be who I am and be present even on this podcast with you and alongside you is dedicated to many of those folks well before me, marcia P. Johnson, Silvio Revellitrera, who could be kind of conduits and revolutionaries in zir own right. I would love to for the next generation to see many folks alongside me, not just me, but to provide transition opportunities and emboldening us to be better and do better for our work.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:35]:

It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Christopher Lewis [00:20:41]:

Thanks so much, Jill. Glad to be back in the NASPA world. And as always, there's a ton happening in our association, and I'm really excited to be able to share some of these things with you. One of the first things that I wanted to share with you is that the 18th Manassa NASPA Conference will be hosted by Qatar University April 20 eigth to April 30, 2024. Right now, the call for programs is open, and the conference registration is open, and the early registration is open until January 31. The Manassa NASPA Conference provides student affairs practitioners with the knowledge and skills to effectively address and support college students. Higher education is witnessing a wide array of changes, especially in the era of fast technological evolution. This conference coming up.

Christopher Lewis [00:21:36]:

The theme of it is Student Affairs changes and Challenges in the Era of Emerging Technologies. It's a three day conference put on by NASPA and the Middle East, North Africa and South Asia or Manassa area. This is an opportunity to connect with colleagues both regionally and abroad, and the conference provides you with a space for discussing innovative ideas, adaptive approaches, use of technology, best practices, lessons learned, and provide tools to understand the next generation of student affairs. Definitely want to take advantage of the early registration rates that are open right now, and if your campus is in the Manassa region and would love to be considered for the 2025 Manassa NASPA Conference, the bid for that conference is currently open as well. You can find out more about this conference on the NASPA website and the bid for the 2025 hosting of the conference. Deadline for that is on February 15, 2024. You can find the Manassa NASPA Conference campus host Bid, the secure platform on the NASPA website. You can put in a bid right there to be able to be considered.

Christopher Lewis [00:22:59]:

The Fall 2023 Leadership Exchange magazine has been sent out. If you didn't see the email or haven't checked it out yet, I really encourage you to check it out. The theme of this issue is consolidation. Fosters collaboration. Advancing student success at a newly integrated institution. Inside of this issue, you're going to see a ton of great articles that are tailored to Vice Presidents for Student Affairs and other leaders in Student Affairs administration. Even if you're not at that level, I still encourage you to read the articles in this. They will challenge you, they'll push you, and they will encourage you to think about things in a different way.

Christopher Lewis [00:23:40]:

Also inside of this issue, you're going to find conversations about the college mental health cris. Also, you'll be able to learn what it's like to be a Vice President for Student Affairs through the lens of four new VPSAs and also thinking about holistic advising approaches to student success. This and more are a part of this Leadership Exchange, and I really encourage you to go and check it out for yourself. Go to the NASPA website, click on Publications, and go to the Leadership Exchange magazine.

Christopher Lewis [00:24:13]:

We're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you want to give back? Each week. We're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in. That knowledge, community. I see myself doing something like that or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better.

Christopher Lewis [00:25:33]:

Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:37]:

Another fantastic NASPA World segment. Producer Chris, we continue to appreciate you and all of your work to keep us informed on what's going on in and around NASPA. Brian, we have reached our lightning round. I have seven questions for you in about 90 seconds. Ready to do it?

Brian Medina [00:25:52]:

I love it. Let's do it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:53]:

All right. Number one, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Brian Medina [00:25:58]:

The entrance music that I already use. Crawling by Lincoln Park.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:02]:

Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Brian Medina [00:26:05]:

I wanted to be a soccer star.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:07]:

Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Brian Medina [00:26:10]:

My former supervisor, Brenda Ice.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:12]:

Number four, your essential student affairs. Read.

Brian Medina [00:26:16]:

Student affairs must read. I would have to say cast by Isabel Wilkerson.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:22]:

Number five, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic.

Brian Medina [00:26:25]:

I have to admit that I haven't been watching many full shows lately, but I am a sucker for any historical docuseries, so please send your recommendations.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:34]:

Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Brian Medina [00:26:39]:

While I clearly love the SA Voices podcast, I also want to give a shout out to a friend of mine, Tracy Guy Decker, who recently developed a podcast called Deep Thoughts about Stupid Stuff but replaced the word stuff with something we're not allowed to say on the air.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:54]:

And finally, number seven, any shoutouts you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Brian Medina [00:26:58]:

Always love to give shout outs to my peers and friends in the gender, sexuality, casey and other Casey's, and certainly. To my partner for continuing to hold space for me as I have shared my fullness on this podcast and beyond.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:10]:

Ryan, I'm sure there are many listeners who would love to chat with you after the show airs. How can they find you?

Brian Medina [00:27:15]:

I'm less on social media. I would love to hear. If you'd like to send a long letter, send it snail mail or you can send an email at bamadina at. Umd.edu.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:28]:

Ryan, it's been such a pleasure to talk with you. I always love getting to know other leaders in NASPA. There's so many of us, we don't always get to connect. So I want to say thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Brian Medina [00:27:38]:

Thank you so much, Jill. It's been a pleasure.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:41]:

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:10]:

And please, like, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, spotify or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us become more visible role in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill L. Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:29]:

Guest coordination by Lu Yongru. Special thanks to Duke Kunshan University and the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

View Details

In this episode of "Student Affairs Voices from the Field," Dr. Jill Creighton discusses transitions in Student Affairs with her guest, Dr. Chrissy Roth Francis, who made the leap from student affairs to a career in the tech industry. The episode highlights the challenges and opportunities faced by student affairs professionals considering a pivot into adjacent roles. Dr. Creighton emphasizes the importance of this discussion, acknowledging the diverse experiences within the field.

Dr. Chrissy Roth Francis shares her journey through higher education, starting as an involved undergraduate student, pursuing a master's degree at New York University, and eventually landing a dream job at the University of Southern California, where she worked with international students. She later became the Director of New Student Services at UC Berkeley, overseeing orientation for a growing number of students. However, the transition to a "welcome week" structure became a significant challenge and contributed to her decision to pivot out of higher education.

The conversation delves into why Dr. Roth Francis chose to pivot into the corporate world, specifically in talent development at LinkedIn. She highlights the transferable skills gained in higher education, such as problem-solving, strategic planning, and public speaking, which have proven valuable in her new role. Dr. Creighton discusses the various options available to student affairs professionals, including staying in the field, changing the field from within, or pursuing opportunities outside higher education.

Dr. Roth Francis emphasizes the need for clear boundaries and work-life balance in her new career, a departure from the long hours and weekend commitments common in student affairs. She discusses the practicality of her decision, citing the desire for a better lifestyle and higher income as motivating factors. Both hosts express appreciation for student affairs professionals and the essential work they do in supporting students.

The episode concludes with a discussion of career trajectories, with Dr. Roth Francis sharing her experience of initially taking a step down in her career to gain experience in the corporate world. She highlights the importance of recalibrating and expanding one's skill set while also acknowledging the financial benefits of her decision.

Dr. Creighton emphasizes the need for higher education to adapt and connect with industry to prepare students with the skills necessary for success. She encourages SA professionals to explore all available options, connect with others who have made similar transitions, and conduct thorough research before making career decisions.

In summary, this episode provides valuable insights for student affairs professionals considering career transitions, whether within or outside higher education, and highlights the importance of self-care and financial well-being in making such decisions.

Please subscribe to SA Voices from the Field on your favorite podcasting device and share the podcast with other student affairs colleagues!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]:

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:37]:

So I'm pleased to introduce you today to Dr.Chrissy Roth Francis, who is a loud and proud former student affairs professional. In 2018, with a master's, a doctorate and eleven years of higher ed experience, she packed up her diplomas, conference name tags and pictures of orientation teams. She shed some tears and then ventured into the tech industry with her eyes and ears wide open. Chrissy is now the Director of Talent Development at LinkedIn, where she leads a team that onboards and develops the company's 3500 people managers. Chrissy has been an outspoken voice on LinkedIn for higher ed expats and for those still working on college campuses, but considering a pivot elsewhere. I want to acknowledge the importance of today's episode in Centering, the total experience of being a student affairs professional. For all of us who are thriving on our campuses, this is an episode that we're hoping you can hear where others are positioned for transition. And for those of you who are figuring out that maybe you are looking for other opportunities, maybe this one can be practical for you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:33]:

But to all of you, we appreciate you and all of the work you're doing to support our students on all campuses worldwide. Chrissy, we're so glad to have you on SA voices today.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:01:43]:

So happy to be here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:44]:

We know each other through a mutual friend, dDr. Kelly Alvarado Young. So I'm going to give her a shout out right now. Kelly and I work together at WSU. So Kelly, if you're listening, hello.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:01:54]:

Hey, Kelly, Chrissy, we really love to.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:56]:

Start with getting to know our guests through your very excellent come up story. We'd love to hear your journey through higher ed and also the journey to your position now.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:02:06]:

So happy to share it. Jill thank you for having me. My journey starts like almost everybody's journey in Student affairs. I was an undergrad. I was a super involved student. I love doing all the things at my college. And at some point I had that moment where somebody pulled me over and said, I think you should consider this as a professional. Go get a master's degree.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:02:26]:

And I didn't know anything and I said, okay, let's go for it. Right? Like that story is very true for so many of us. Ended up getting a master's degree from New York University. Fantastic way to continue my involvement in a college and a university setting. Learned so much working all across that area. And then I ended up getting an incredible job at the University of Southern California. I really think this was the dream job that any entry level professional like me could only hope for. It was in the orientation space, but specifically it was working for international students.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:03:04]:

So I had the honor of getting to onboard every new student to that university, but having a focus on students coming from all over the world and learning so much from them as they shared with me their cultures. I stayed several years at USC, and then I was ready for the big job. Ended up getting the big job at UC Berkeley, where I was the director of New Student Services. So still in the orientation space, which I really loved, this was the space that I focused on as an undergrad. Stuck with it all throughout my time in higher education. So when I was at UC Berkeley, I oversaw orientation for what started out as about 6000 students when I got there in 2013, 6000 students annually. By the time I left in 2018, we were onboarding about 10,000 students annually.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:00]:

That's quite a scale up.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:04:02]:

Yeah, it was a big transition over several years. But the biggest transition of that time was that when I got there, we had a summer orientation. So you all know the glory. Small groups cranking out session after session all throughout the summer. And at one point our higher up administration decided, let's go ahead and change it to a welcome week. Typically, welcome week orientations are only seen on very small campuses, medium campuses at the biggest. Definitely not common among large public universities. That was, I believe, to this day, one of the biggest challenges I will ever see in my career was shepherding our entire campus through a two year transition to get us to be able to successfully onboard 10,000 students in a welcome week structure.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:04:56]:

It was a great endeavor. I had so much fun learning how to do it. And I'm not going to lie, it took everything out of me. And it is not at all a coincidence that I left soon after doing that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:07]:

So I think you're talking about what a lot of us are facing in higher education, which is extraordinary shifts in our work, high expectations from all of those around us, and likely working with some fairly limited resources. And this is all pre pandemic.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:05:24]:

Yes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:25]:

So thinking about that and your journey, can you talk a little bit about what led you to pursuing the Pivot that you did? So we hear about higher education professionals going all sorts of places, customer success, sales, talent and development. The list is actually fairly long because our skills end up being quite transferable if we package them well. So how did you decide on L and D?

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:05:48]:

Yes, so you're absolutely right. When I was in higher education, I saw all those constraints all the constraints that probably all of us feel and see in the field and throughout my time there. Because of those constraints, I very much attribute my skills and my experiences to those constraints. So because of those constraints, I built up this massive portfolio of skills problem solving, navigating, tough times, working with stakeholders, public speaking. What about large scale programming with very little money, training leaders, switching directions because of politics or because of a strategic change in the university? All those things, right? Because of constraints and because of the skills and experiences that I accumulate, I believe it helped me be quite successful pivoting into the corporate world. So I now work, as you know, at LinkedIn in learning and development, talent development, where I get to leverage many of those skills that I use on a daily basis in higher education. So when I think about onboarding new students, we onboard new employees to LinkedIn every single week. When I think about training those student leaders on a weekly or a monthly basis at UC Berkeley and University of Southern California, I get to train people at LinkedIn also on a weekly basis.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:07:10]:

When I think about problem solving, event planning, strategic planning, all the things that we used to do, I get to do that at LinkedIn all the time. So what I learned was that the skills were very much transferable. If anything, I very truly, strongly believe that we develop more skills in higher ed than probably any other industry.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:33]:

That's a bold statement.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:07:34]:

Oh, I mean it. I really do mean it, because given those constraints, we wear so many hats, and we have learned to be so successful and so resourceful with very few resources. And in other industries where you have the resources, you don't need to be that scrappy. You don't need to be so resourceful. You don't need to stretch yourself in all the different directions. So I do mean it, Joel, and I know it is a bold statement.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:59]:

I really appreciate kind of hearing the confidence boost of the transferability of skills. I'm wondering if we can back up a little bit and talk about you said that it had taken everything out of you, and I think a lot of us can relate to how that feeling is. Sitting with many parts of the profession right now. There are some of us that are choosing to persist forward and power through that exhaustion. There are some of us who are looking to change the profession from within to make that not a thing as part of the culture of student affairs and higher education. And there are some of us who are going maybe there is greener grass in other places. I'm wondering if you can tell us about your decision to go for that third option rather than one of the first two.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:08:39]:

Those are a great way to map out the three options. I have definitely been very public about my opting out for greener grass. And I think that all those options are fitting and perfect for whichever one that you want to choose. For me, it was a matter of I was recognizing that I wasn't living the lifestyle that I wanted to live. Meaning I had two little kids that I birthed when I was at UC Berkeley and I was struggling to find time with them between weekend trainings or night trainings, weekend retreats, or the three weeks straight where I nearly lived in the office because it was time for a welcome week. I also didn't make enough money, frankly, to really pay for my family and our growing needs. So for me, it was very practical. We were not able to do the things that we wanted to do.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:09:31]:

I had been paycheck to paycheck my entire career, and now that I'm no longer paycheck to paycheck, I feel much more comfortable saying I was paycheck to paycheck. But back then, I don't think I was ever really free to verbalize how much of a struggle it was for me and my family to sustain on a higher education income. I also think about the people who are like, let's stay in, let's rise to the top, let's make it better, let's really fight to make higher education what it can be. And there are incredible people in higher education who I worked with closely, I adore, and they are in very high up positions, and I know that they are going to make the best that they can possibly do with the situation at hand. And by the way, I never even worked in higher education since COVID so I know it's only gotten more difficult for those people to be able to turn it around. For me, aside from the practicality of wanting a better lifestyle, I really left higher education because I didn't see a path forward for me, I loved working in orientation and I also knew that I wanted to keep climbing or keep moving around. And as I looked moving around, different types of jobs, not physically moving around, which also is very common in higher education. So when I thought about what could be next for me, I scanned my university, I scanned all other universities in the Bay Area, and I couldn't see or envision any jobs out there that would have been a pay increase, a level up, and that I would have appreciated or that I would have enjoyed.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:11:08]:

So I looked at our Dean of Students, our VPSA, other high ups who I think most up and coming student affairs professionals aspire to become. And the more I worked with them and the closer I watched what their job was, the more I wanted to run away from that job. I just didn't want the crisis, I didn't want the budget woes, I didn't want a lot of the yuck that comes along with those jobs. And it takes a really special person to do those jobs and it simply wasn't for me. And that was how I really decided it was time to go find that greener grass outside of higher education.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:44]:

Sometimes I call my portfolio trauma and drama.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:11:47]:

It's a great description.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:48]:

I wish it were not true. But part of the joy of the work is getting to hold space for students who really need an ear for their development. And then part of it too is caring for my well being and those things sometimes can't align, and then the question is what gives? And I think that's very true for a lot of people sitting in the CSAO or the Dean of Students seat. For me especially, I know that working with families of students who have passed away is the number one thing that weighs really heavy on my mind, on my heart, and on my mental health. And that is something they don't teach us how to do in graduate school. We figure it out along the way. And that is a special skill set and honestly, one that I wish I didn't have to have had developed over time because of what comes with it.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:12:33]:

Jill, it's the perfect description of why you and people in like positions are so incredible and why I needed to bow out. I knew I didn't want to do it. I knew it wasn't right for me, and I don't even know if I would have been good at it because I didn't even want to give it a try.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:50]:

So that transition space for you. I've heard you talk about this on a different podcast about being okay with a squiggly line for a career trajectory. Because in higher ed we often measure success by did you up level. And I don't know that that's a great measure of success because I also think in student affairs especially, we don't necessarily do a good job of succession planning from a skills up level. We teach people how to do their jobs and then we say, you're really good at your job. That means you must be ready for the next thing. We didn't necessarily develop the talent from a truly skills basis, whether it be management skills, leadership skills, scaling skills, all of those things. And so you've talked about it's okay to move, quote unquote, down a level or left, right, sideways, diagonally.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:38]:

Tell us about that.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:13:39]:

Absolutely. When I was in higher ed, as evidenced by my previous answer, I felt like I had to move up, had to out of pride, had to out of continually expanding my skill set and my opportunities, and also had to simply to garnish a higher salary. And what I learned was that there are other ways to be successful. And jumping outside of higher education, I knew that I was going to have to take at least a step down because I didn't have corporate industry experience. I didn't have the direct learning and development experience that HR professionals of six years had, even though I was much older and experienced than them. So I knew that I had to take a step down. I was a director and assistant dean at UC Berkeley when I left, and I knew that I wasn't going to become a director right away or I wasn't even going to be able to manage a team of individuals in the corporate world. So what stepping down allowed me to do was look at a variety of positions, take a lot of pressure off of me, and allow me to learn a brand new industry, expand my skill set, and really get comfortable in another space and also prove myself.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:14:56]:

So I feel quite confident that because of the step down I took, I was able to launch myself a lot stronger and faster than other folks. So, yes, I needed the time to step down and recalibrate, but it very much paid off in the end. I will also say that my step down from higher education into the corporate world was leaps and bounds higher of a salary than anything I ever would have been making in higher education. So that, of course, made my step down a lot more palatable.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:29]:

Thinking about all of the things that you did to transition, I know you've written a blog post I referenced, so I'll let folks know. Please check out Chrissy's blog on LinkedIn. It's called how higher ed pros can find greener grass by Dr. Chrissy Roth Francis. If you just Google for that, you'll be able to pull that blog up easily. Chrissy gives some really practical advice for those of you who are pivoting and if you want to go back and listen I think it was almost three or four seasons ago now. We did a crossover episode with the podcast pivoting out of with Dr. Jamie Hoffman, dr.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:58]:

Tom Stuttert. They're both pivoters who took their doctoral degrees and entered the corporate worlds very, very successfully. So if this is you, please check those things out. Chrissy, I'm wondering if you can give us any advice for those that are persisting through the profession and know it's the right home for them. Things that you wish higher ed was doing now that you know what the corporate world is also doing.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:16:21]:

There's just so many things, and I think for me, it starts out with folks in higher ed like me went to college, went to grad school, got all their jobs, and never left a college campus. So they don't have any clue what else is out there unless they have close friends or a spouse possibly, that work in the corporate world. So I've been quite surprised, happily surprised, by what I've seen outside of higher education. Things like people's well being are actually taken care of. Like, I shut down my laptop at 05:00 every day, and I don't worry about an on call or I don't have to work a weekend retreat. So for me, the work boundaries are much more firm and I don't have to worry about my student affairs life bleeding into my personal life. So that's a big deal is having people really be able to honor their boundaries and take care of themselves in a much more holistic way. You've heard me talk about salary quite a few times and when I was in higher education, I wasn't comfortable thinking that I deserved or that I needed a higher salary.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:17:34]:

That to me was anti higher ed. Higher ed where we believe that we are sacrificing everything, including our family's lifestyles and our salaries to do the job. I would love to see people throughout all levels of higher education or education in general get paid much better commensurate with the work that they are actually doing, because the work is valuable and necessary and requires such a tremendous skill set and education that people should be paid accordingly. And I want to see that happen, which really means higher education needs to be restructured financially. And that's many more podcasts for you, Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:13]:

I think we just had an interesting conversation with Eric Stoller on kind of an adjacent topic and it was all about the transition and transformation of the digital space for higher education. And those two things for higher education to keep up with industry is going to be critical, especially because of the gradual but continual loss of faith in the value of higher education as a market for what people need to pursue after high school. We're seeing that decline happen in a lot of places, and for me, I believe that is because we've done a poor job of really telling the story of what an education can do or working in higher education can do. I'm still a firm believer. Higher education has a huge ROI, and that is because of the way it teaches you how to think about problems and solve problems with elasticity that you can't see if you go straight for other types of training. So that's the value for me, but we don't sell it well and we also aren't really connecting with industry well on what are the skills that students need to come out with with their degree in order to make it happen for them.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:19:10]:

I think you hit it on the head right at the end there. It's that higher education is not connecting it with the industry. So we know what various industries need and are looking for, and higher education sometimes is a bit old school and traditional compared to what tech or other industries want. And when I think about a well rounded liberal arts education as a human being, I think that is absolutely the right way to go. I want someone who knows how to problem solve, who understands the history and who understands culture and different types of people. And when it comes to doing a job, some companies just want someone who knows how to code for example. And that's a gap, right? And I don't think either one is more right, but it is a gap that somebody needs to go ahead and be able to fill or at least sell how they're filling it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:01]:

And I'll give it a shout out to our career services colleagues because I know that they are doing it and creating that bridge. Yes, for sure.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:20:07]:

Absolutely.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:08]:

Chrissy, any other thoughts for our SA pros who are both persisting through the profession or those who are really thinking that maybe it's time for a shift?

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:20:17]:

When I started thinking about leaving higher education, I believe I knew about five people who had successfully left higher education because nobody talked about it back then. So I left in 2018, and back then I wasn't able to have conversations with people and let them know, this is what I want to do, help me build the skills or help me build a network to get there. Now, I hope that higher education is at a place where it's more open and even this podcast is evidence of that, that we can talk openly about people's needs and desires or even just thoughts about leaving higher education. So what I want people to know is there are hundreds, if not thousands, of people who currently work in the corporate world from higher education. And you might not know us all because you're in your higher education bubble, but we are out there and we are thriving, and we are showing folks across various sectors that higher ed expats can do really well, and if anything, that we are incredible and we have an incredible skill set. So reach out to folks, get to know folks, learn what is out there. I didn't know any types of jobs. I didn't know different companies.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:21:32]:

I didn't know anything when I was trying to get out there. And I wish back then that I had the network of higher ed expats that I do have now. So do your research. Take it as a second job for a few months and get to know people. Ask them what they do. Ask them about their company. Start learning about what you might want to do or what's important for you as you are looking to pivot out of higher education. And in those conversations, you might learn that, yes, indeed, it is time for you to jump out and you're going to learn some strategies on how to get out.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:22:07]:

Or you might learn that you really love working in higher education and you do not want to leave. I've talked to people who were interested in Pivoting, and by the end of my conversation, I'm like, they are never going to leave, and they shouldn't leave because they got it going and they've figured it out. You need to make the best decision for you. And I just hope that you are able to make that decision based on all the data that you can accumulate.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:31]:

And whether you are persisting in the profession or looking elsewhere. I want to express my gratitude to you personally for everything that you're doing to make student affairs and higher education a place that's really being the catalyst of change on our campuses and the safest places for the students. So thank you to all the out there.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:22:50]:

Great job, everybody.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:51]:

Keep it up. It's time to take a quick break.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:53]:

And toss it over to producer Chris.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:55]:

To learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Christopher Lewis [00:22:57]:

Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back again in the NASPA world and as always, lots of things happening in this association really want to focus a little bit on some of the focus areas of NASPA. And many of you have been members of NASPA for a long time. You may think you know all that NASPA does, but I'll bet you that there are some things you might not know and some focus areas that you might not always be thinking about. Today, I would highly encourage you to go onto the NASPA website and there is a link at the top of the webput site, at the top of the website that says Focus Areas. If you go there, you're going to see that there are eight different areas that are focused on and NASPA is working to serve as a leading role in the innovations that are shaping the future of student affairs in many different areas. The focus areas that you're going to see on the website include career and workforce development, civic engagement, justice, equity, inclusion and diversity, student financial, wellness, health, safety and well being, policy and advocacy, student success, and supporting the profession. If you go under that tab on the website and you click on any of those different focus areas, you're going to learn more about each of the different areas.

Christopher Lewis [00:24:23]:

Each of those will be broken down and will allow for you to see different types of resources, different types of events, different types of blogs and awards that are available for you as a professional. So, for example, you click on Career and Workforce Development, you're going to see what that focus area is all about. You'll see some books that tie into that. You're going to see events that are specific to that specific focus area, some articles in the blog that are tied directly to that specific focus area, as well as some awards and initiatives that the association has that to encourage you to think about these focus areas in a different way. Again, not all of us are working in all of these different areas. Not all of us are thinking about these different areas. But through this resource on the NASPA website, you're going to be able to find out a lot more about what NASPA is doing, but also about resources that are available to you so that you can become more adept at these areas, as well as a better support for students in these areas. The other thing today that I'm going to talk about is a little bit of a breakdown of how NASPA is structured.

Christopher Lewis [00:25:39]:

All of you live in different areas of the world, and each of those areas is broken down into different regions and areas. And if you don't know what region you're in or what area that you are in based on where you live and what you do, I highly encourage you to go again to the NASPA website, click on Communities and go to Regions and Areas. And if you go to that, you're going to see that NASPA is broken down into regions within the United States that range everywhere from region one to region six. And you're going to find that of those regions, there are seven different areas because region four is broken down into east and west. Beyond that, there are two international areas that are broken down. The first is called the Lac or Latin America and Caribbean. And the other is Menasa, which is Middle East, North Africa and South Asia. If you want to find out more about what's happening in your region or what states are in your region, if there's specific things that are happening in the states that you live in, I encourage you to go and check out the regions or your area and learn more.

Christopher Lewis [00:26:57]:

Because there are directors of those regions, there are other leaders in those regions and areas that can help you, to connect you, to get you involved in different ways based on what's happening. And it's a great way to connect with people in your area that you can work with, on common goals, common vision, try to identify best practices, and more. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit, where do you want to give back? Each week. We're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in. That knowledge community.

Christopher Lewis [00:28:18]:

I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within. The association, because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:48]:

Chris, once again, you're always such a wonderful voice for our NASPA World segment. Thank you for teaching us what's going on in and around NASPA. Chrissy, we have reached our lightning round on the show, which is about seven questions in 90 seconds. You ready to go?

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:29:03]:

It's timed. You didn't warn me it was timed. Okay, here we go.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:09]:

We don't put like a 60 minutes ticker on the back end or anything.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:29:12]:

I'm going to accept the challenge here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:14]:

All right. Number one, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:29:18]:

Thunder.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:19]:

Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:29:23]:

A mail Judy. And by that I mean our mail person. Her name was Judy, and I wanted to be her.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:29]:

Number three, your most influential professional mentor.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:29:32]:

I'm not going to say one. I'm going to say there are a collection of people that I look to for different reasons and in different capacities who all have inspired me in very different ways.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:43]:

Number four, your essential higher education. Read.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:29:46]:

You know what? I was always a very big fan of Schlossberg. We're talking about transition, and I worked in orientation, so for me it was all about schlossberg.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:54]:

Number five, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:29:57]:

I just finished watching. Is it still the pandemic? Does that count?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:02]:

I think so now.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:30:04]:

Okay. I just finished watching Suits. I have never binged such a long show because it is multiple seasons, multiple years. Great to actually learn what that show was all about. I loved it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:15]:

Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:30:19]:

I am a big fan of Reed Hoffman's masters of Scale. Reed Hoffman is the founder of LinkedIn, and he features different companies who have really figured out how to get big very quickly. So it's been a great education for me to learn more about the corporate world.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:35]:

And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:30:39]:

Shout out to everybody who is doing all the great work in higher education. Shout out to all those folks who have helped me along the way. Get out. And like you talked about Dr. Tom Stutter, so didn't mention earlier, he was actually my very first boss outside after I graduated with my master's. So it's quite fun that we have both ended up on this side. I'm going to give another shout out. I'm just going to go through all my people.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:31:04]:

Andreen Kaibi, who was my very first boss, who actually encouraged me to go into higher education. And then lastly, I will say Dr. David Serat, who was a critical person for me in higher education as I considered leaving higher education.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:19]:

It's been such a pleasure to have this conversation with you today, Chrissy. I'm sure that there are many others that would like to connect with you. How can folks find you after the show airs?

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:31:28]:

Y'all can find me on LinkedIn. You can find me at Dr. Chrissy Rothfrancis. I post a good amount on LinkedIn. A lot of it is targeted toward folks in higher education considering to get out of education. So find me on LinkedIn.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:41]:

Thank you so much, Chrissy, for sharing your voice with us today.

Chrissy Roth Francis [00:31:44]:

It's been my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:47]:

This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is always made possible because of you, our listeners. We are so grateful that you continue to listen to us season after season. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Craighton. We welcome your feedback and topic and especially your guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:16]:

And please like rate and review us on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill L. Creighton SAP Mi. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Guest coordination by Lu Yongru.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:37]:

Special thanks to Duke Kunchan University and the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

View Details

In this episode of "Student Affairs Voices From the Field," Dr. Jill Creighton welcomes Dr. Eric Stoller, the VP of Marketing and Digital Content at territorium, for a conversation about the evolving landscape of higher education and the role of technology in student affairs. They discuss various trends in higher education technology and how it impacts both academic and student affairs divisions.

Dr. Stoller traces his journey from his early experiences as a marketing specialist at the University of Illinois, Chicago, to becoming a respected thought leader in the higher education technology space. He emphasizes how technology has become an integral part of the entire higher education experience, noting the importance of CRM tools, mobile apps, and the shift toward hybrid and remote learning during the pandemic.

The conversation delves into the changing value of higher education credentials and the importance of measuring and verifying outcomes related to critical thinking, skills development, and employability. Dr. Stoller discusses the growing focus on micro-credentials, badges, and the idea of a learner's "digital wallet" to showcase skills and experiences.

They also touch upon the need for interoperability in higher education technology and how data and analytics will play a more significant role in student affairs, helping institutions understand student needs and provide better support.

The episode concludes with a discussion of the evolving role of student affairs in helping students navigate diverse pathways to success, emphasizing the need for personalized support and pathways for learners, regardless of whether they complete a degree.

This episode sheds light on the transformative impact of technology on higher education and how student affairs professionals can adapt to these changes to better serve students in an evolving landscape.

Please subscribe to SA Voices from the Field on your favorite podcasting device and share the podcast with other student affairs colleagues!

Transcript

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]:

Welcome to Student Affairs Voices From the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season nine on transitions in Student Affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA. And I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your essay, Voices from the Field host today on SA Voices, I'm pleased to bring you a conversation with Eric Stoller. Eric is the VP of Digital at territorium with over 20 years experience in higher education and education technology. As a Strategist writer and thought leader, he founded and led a global higher education consultancy from 2010 to 2019 and created the Student Affairs and Technology blog for Inside Higher Ed.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:46]:

Previous Ed Tech roles include leadership positions at list. Ed tech element 451 and Gecko engage. Earlier in his career, he was an academic advisor at Oregon State University and a marketing specialist at the University of Illinois, Chicago. Eric. Earned an associate's degree, a BA in Communications and an EDM. In College student Services Administration. Eric, welcome to SA Voices.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:01:07]:

Thanks so much for having me, Jill. Great to be here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:09]:

It's really great to see you. For our listeners, Eric and I met, I'm going to say 2005 maybe.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:01:16]:

I think dinosaurs were just still roaming the earth. Yeah, it would have been 2004. Five Oregon State University in Corvallis, Oregon.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:25]:

I think we were just escaping the trends of dial up internet and smartphones weren't smart yet in that time. So Eric and I actually worked together in the Office of Student Conduct when we were graduate students. So it's really lovely to see old friends and see careers blossom. And I'm really looking forward to talking about your transition today because I think you have a really unique one for someone who received their master's in Higher Ed. So would love to start with if you could tell us about your current position. And we always like to begin with a good come up story. How did you get to your current seat?

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:01:57]:

A good come up story, I love that. Well, so my current role is Vice President of Marketing and Digital Content at territorium, which is a global ed tech company that is all about bridging education to employability. And we'll probably get into that later on in the show. And it gets highly technical and I can't wait to dive into that. In terms of how I got into this seat, it is a long, winding story that started on a gravel road in Iowa, and I'm not going to bore your listeners with the full, you know, I went to community college, went to university. I thought I was kind of done with higher education. And then I actually started working at the University of Illinois at Chicago way back in the day in marketing and just loved the work. I was located within Student Services, and that's when I sort of first learned about what student affairs was even all about.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:02:42]:

And was, as I am today, still very much into technology back then. And even I remember calling up Kevin Krueger, who's now the executive director for NASPA or the president of NASA. I'm not sure the exact titles nowadays, but Kevin and I had a conversation when I was very new to the field, and I said to him, why is the information Technology knowledge community, as it was known then, why is it gone? Because they had just gotten rid of it. And his first thought or question know, who are you? And I said, yeah, I'm just new professional, kind of bothering this leader of this association, or at the time, I think he was the associate director. Anyway, I went out to Oregon State, as you referenced, and I got my master's degree in higher education. Worked in a variety of different areas from enrollment management, financial aid, registrars, kind of a stint at Student conduct, was an academic advisor. And then during that time when I was an academic advisor, I started writing for Inside Higher Ed. I started the Student Affairs and Technology blog and just loved that experience as a writer for Inside Higher Ed.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:03:41]:

And it was also at that time when I started getting invitations to go out and do some freelance work and consult for institutions and speak at events. So I stopped working full time for Oregon State and I became a consultant for nine years in the US, the UK and beyond, various global events and working with institutions all over the place. And the focus was all around digital engagement. This was when sort of social media was kind of coming into its own still and really focusing on how student affairs divisions could just transform what they were doing with all things digital. Because the origin story of student affairs is one that it was all about face to face, one on one experiences with students. And technology was seen because my Grad program, it was what, 2004, when I started, and technology was seen as this kind of gets in the way of that student experience. You fast forward to today, almost 20 years later, and the idea that technology would be separate from the student experience is something that people would never think about. It's really connected deeply.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:04:40]:

And so I had this nine year experience as a freelancer, and then I started working for a higher ed chatbot company that was based in the UK and Scotland and did that for a little while, went back to Freelancing, and then I worked for a higher ed CRM company. You're getting kind of a theme here in terms of my Ed tech experience, right? Sort of chat bot to CRM. And then we moved to the Netherlands in 2022 from the US. And so I was doing Freelancing again, and a connection of my wife, professional connection, started talking to me about this potential marketing role at territorium, and they were launching their kind of US presence. territorium as a company has its origins in Monterrey, Mexico, and we're all over Latin America in terms of providing testing and a learning experience platform as well as our comprehensive learner record. But we hadn't really had as much of a presence in the US. And so we launched this US team back in December of last year that's for listeners on the call. I can't even do the math now.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:05:42]:

Right? 2022. And so been with territorium since then and leading on all things marketing and digital combination of leading, strategy, producing, execution, go to market, a lot of things that are not part of our Master's degree program that Jill and I went through, but connected to both my undergraduate experience as a PR and marketing major. And then of course, my deep connections and network into higher education have kind of got me to this place.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:10]:

So I'm going to just do a quick backup to a terms definition. You mentioned CRM, which might not be a term that's familiar to those in Higher Ed. Can you define that for us?

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:06:18]:

Of course. So this is where things really get interesting because as you know, every institution in the US kind of does things differently. If they're a college, they're a university, they're a community college. The structures, the systems, some institutions have divisions of student affairs, some have smaller sort of scale depending on their organization. But the one thing they all have in common is they all recruit students, they have admissions and they have recruitment. And whether they use a higher ed specific CRM, which is back in the day, it would have been a Customer Relationship Management tool, which is effectively how you keep track of who you're trying to recruit and communicate with them and engage them on a level from maybe they're a junior in high school or if they're an adult. Learner how you're connecting with those folks through a variety of communication vehicles like email, SMS or maybe a chat bot. How it's all interconnected.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:07:10]:

So there's the Gargantuan CRMs out there like Salesforce or I happen to be working for Element 451, which is a much smaller shop, but they have quite a few clients as well. That's the CRM. I think the interesting thing about being in Higher Ed is I always say that you live in an acronym soup because you've got all the associations for higher education, all the different tools and platforms. You've got the SIS, the Student Information System. I mentioned the Comprehensive Learner Record, which is shortened down to Clr, which is a record of skills and experiences and credentials for learners. That goes far beyond the transcript because it goes inside the classroom and outside the classroom. So that's the clr. And so, yeah, if we need to, we can have a glossary of Terms attached to this podcast.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:07:53]:

In terms of all the acronyms that I might mention, I think for Higher Ed pros, most of these things you're already familiar with, you just didn't know. That's what it was called in corporate land, but things you're quite familiar with. I think the one that we've been using lately is Slate in terms of our CRM for prospective students. It's quite a popular rising one right now. So you do know these things. You just maybe got a new term to associate with it.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:08:15]:

I think if you work in enrollment management, if you're in the admissions side, you're in these tools on a daily basis. I think it's one of those things if you're in student conduct or academic advising or every sort of functional area has its set of digital tools that it uses on a day to day basis. But when I was at Oregon State as an academic advisor, I was in banner every single day. And so that was the tool of choice. That's from Elusion. In terms of providers, I'll try not to too much name dropping, but I think that in terms of the Edtech universe, there's so many different providers because so many different functional areas require just different tools to help with the work that they're doing.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:53]:

One of the reasons I was really looking forward to our conversation is because you can talk about transitions in the digital space. A lot of the conversations we've had this seasons are personal transitions in career, which you've certainly had. But I think one of the things you've always had your finger on the pulse of in higher Ed is how digital kind of arenas, the digital vertical for higher education has really changed and reshaped the way that we do the work in our campus based positions. So I'm wondering if you can talk to us a little bit about that process and what you've seen in terms of trends and bed tech field is really new 2030 years in terms of its boom. So any trends that you're seeing in terms of how educators are using these tools really well, yeah.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:09:34]:

I mean, I think it's always good, like you said, to kind of look back where things were. When I was writing for Inside Higher Ed, I remember going to EDUCAUSE a couple of different times. The annual Educause Conference, which is kind of a giant ed tech convention. And most of the providers back then, those events, they were very much focused on the academic experience side of things. There weren't a lot of providers that were doing things that would even slightly sort of go into the student affairs areas. And now you fast forward to today and Edtech providers are in kind of every single space within institutions. As we've already referenced, the CRM tools have become extremely important because with the approaching enrollment cliff for that traditionally aged population, which is kind of a loaded phrase anyway in terms of what is traditional, but that sort of 18 to 22 year old, that population of university, that's a decline. There's just not as many young people that will be going into higher education.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:10:33]:

And so the CRM becomes a tool that is even more important as you communicate, as you hone your message, as you try to showcase the value of your institution, of the degrees that students will receive and earn and other systems as well. I mean, it used to be the digital experience was much more based on the staff or administrators who were at their desk with a big screen and students would come to their office and they would sort of navigate a system on behalf of the student. And then mobile apps kind of really entered in in a meaningful way. And no longer are students sort of tethered to an individual and their desk and their office, but they can look things up on their phone and they can access a variety of services. They can ask questions to 24/7 chat bots. They can look at their course schedule. They can look at various activities and events on campus. Now, of course, when you said this, you referenced the question.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:11:29]:

You kind of framed it as on campus. I think what the pandemic did was it showcased the need to serve and support students who weren't necessarily going to be on campus, or at least accelerated. Maybe more of a hybridized environment where students were on campus for a portion of the time, but they were also on their computers at home because it used to be that all your lectures were in a big auditorium. And then the idea of the sort of the flip classroom came into play. Professors were recording their lectures and students could listen to a lecture at home and so that the discussion would actually happen when you went to the classroom. And then with the Pandemic, it sort of said, okay, everything's going to be remote for certain people. And it was interesting because you start thinking about how did student affairs serve learners, who historically student affairs would have been saying, okay, in res life, there's no such thing as remote. Students are actually physically located on campus.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:12:27]:

But then say, what about the other side of our institution that was serving adult learners or online only learners or people that were coming in for micro credentials, they were never going to set foot on campus. They maybe came once a year, if that. And so technology has really embedded itself throughout the entire higher education experience because the higher education experience has changed. It's such a blended, multimodal thing where students are learning through their phones, they are communicating like we are right now through zoom or other media like this because you don't have to be bound to a certain geography. You could be in Iowa and studying an institution in Oregon, or you could be in Berlin and studying at an institution in South Carolina. So the variety pack now and I think that's where I think back to our higher education master's program. And the fundamentals that we were taught were still very much constrained to a sort of model that was still constrained in some ways. It's like know, we were on a basketball court, for example, and we knew where the boundary lines were for everything, and we knew, like, okay, here's the two baskets, and we know how things work.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:13:39]:

But then all of a, you know, I live in Europe now imagine if that basketball court was transported to a football pitch, which is enormous in size and different boundaries and different scope and scale. And I think that's where higher education finds itself. It's having to, as a sort of nebulous thing, now recruit students that in the past might not have been recruited because, like I said, that enrollment decline for a certain demographic, and so all these technologies are really coming into their own. For instance, the territorium, one of the things that we've been really talking about a lot is this idea that why do people go to college? Why do people pay the bill? Why do the people get into debt? Most of us were not financially wealthy enough to just pay for school right away. You have to get a loan. You pay your student loan off over the course of a lifetime or however long it takes. And what's the value of higher education? Right? Yes. It's the experience.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:14:30]:

It's about giving back to your community. It's about access. But by and large, most people go to university because they want to improve their overall employability or their chances for a career that will perhaps lead to financial stability because that's why they're doing it. And higher ed, I think, for the longest time, hasn't really talked about that. We shy away from that. We shy away from the fact that people are going to get their BA in English, for instance, and they're going to get in $50,000 worth of debt. But they're doing it because they love writing, they love the work, they love the art. But at the same time, is there a connection to employment at the end of that journey, or are universities just leaving students in debt? And so I think that's where you may have heard people talk a lot about the skills based economy.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:15:16]:

And I went to community college for my first two years. I got my Associate of Arts. My brother, he went to the same community college. He got a two year technical degree. That's what he has, a technical degree. And he has done really well for himself career wise. And I think one of the things, when people hear the word skills based economy, they think, well, that's more technical or community college workforce based. But universities are really getting into that space now when it comes to micro credentials and badging and trying to sort out the sense of, okay, it's not just about a pretty campus.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:15:48]:

It's not just about a winning football team. It is about what's the direct correlation to you get this degree or you get this credential and it's going to have a direct impact on your success? Because right now I think there's something like 39 million Americans have some college but no degree, and yet that accompanies that with a ton of debt, right? So there's a lot of issues there. And so how do you take folks who have maybe some college but no degree and let them showcase the sort of skills that they have, even though they don't have the diploma, because they might have a transcript that shows that they've taken five classes, but at the same time, how do they show that to employers? Because employers look, traditionally, employers wanted to see the diploma or that you've earned your 40 year degree or you've earned your Master's or whatnot. And so I think that part of the things that higher ed has had in the past is, okay, we've kind of built this foundation of these are our core technologies. But I think there's this transition to, okay, what are some of those core technologies that might need to change, might need to evolve? Because if you're a registrar, for example, you need something more than just a transcript because you're no longer just awarding ABCDF, you are awarding micro credentials. You're giving badges away to students. Faculty members are sort of looking at, okay, my students are learning these skills during the course of this particular class, and now we're going to award them badges that never would have happened 510 years ago. And now you've got employers saying, hey, we are going to hire students based on these skills that they have that are verified by the institution.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:15]:

Those are really important points because what we're seeing is a transformation of the value of higher education that's not just US. Based, that's globally. Because when we look at what a degree means, I believe it means something extremely different to those of us working in the academy, to those folks that are outside of the academy looking to employ people who need individuals who can demonstrate critical thinking, problem solving skills, technical knowledge, all of those things. And that's part of what the degree is designed to do. But I would believe that, especially at a liberal arts institution like mine, we're teaching ways to think, not just facts and figures and things like that. And you need both. So the question is, how are we transitioning not only our offerings at the university as a whole from a credentialing perspective, but how are we also doing that in student affairs? And how can technology support those transitions for what the work needs to look like? So I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on that.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:18:12]:

Yeah, well, I think part of it has to do with the fact that because you mentioned critical thinking, critical thinking is a huge part of the experience of higher education and a lot of student affairs programs the underpinnings of those programs definitely includes critical thinking, equity conversations, cultural diversity conversations. And I think that all those aspects, they just weren't measured in the past. Right, so what did you actually learn throughout your experience that wasn't in the classroom? NASPA, for as long as I can remember, has always talked about learning reconsidered. Right. That learning happens throughout the experience of a student, regardless of where they are on campus, off campus, in a class, outside of the class. And so I think that is part of the work that student affairs is going to have to do going forward, because there's a lot of scrutiny right now, obviously, on institutional budgets and outcomes. And the two big R's, of course, are recruitment and retention. And student affairs plays a big part in both of those areas.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:19:08]:

And so I think that the student affairs side of things in terms of transforming kind of what was done to what is being done and what will continue to be done, is going to be verifying and measuring those outcomes so that there's a tangible way to sort of I mentioned badges earlier. How many student affairs divisions are awarding badges to students? You think a lot of times about badges is maybe coming from the academic affairs side of the house. I think that look at Career Services shops, look at the evolution of Career Services because like career centers, they have probably one of the most important roles at institutions. And yet for the longest time, not so much now, but for a long time it was, okay, I'm a junior or a senior, I'll go and talk to career services kind of at the end of my institutional experience before I graduate. And now you see Career Services, they're front loading their engagement with students. So they're at orientation, they're there at first year experience courses, and they're also working alongside employers to connect students to this idea that this is just a step in your journey and we're going to try to help you along. And so I think we're going to see a lot more student affairs divisions awarding badges and getting into the LMS, getting into the badge systems, either coming directly out of a clr or it comes from another provider. I think that's the other thing with this is Ed Tech providers have been very insular in the past.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:20:28]:

Like, we've got a platform and it only works with our platform. And so student data is kind of stuck in this database that's very proprietary and an organization called Oneed Tech, unless you're really deeply involved in sort of the Ed Tech space, you might not be aware of them. But one of the big facets of their work is interoperability sort of this idea that all these digital assets that students have are like Lego and that you can kind of plug and play them independently of a certain system. So, for example, if you have a digital wallet, that has all of your badges and has your skills, your credentials, all that stuff in there, you can take it to another institution. Kind of how students transfer from community college maybe to a university, but usually that's with a traditional transcript. But the overall vision will be learners will have this wallet of all of their verified skills and experiences and credentials that they carry with them in an interoperable plug and play type way. And so the sort of sovereignty of learners becomes a much bigger part of the conversation because there's a lot of data that has been part of this as well. And in student affairs, we don't really talk about data.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:21:36]:

We don't talk about sort of the technical piece because we've been so much about the soft skills, the one to one. If you want to be a dean of students, you're not necessarily getting into a huge portion of the data unless maybe it's connected to retention or some other issue on campus directly. But the Ed tech space, there's so much data that is coming out of that. And so the thing I think will be interesting to see with student affairs throughout every functional area will be the various dashboards and analytics and outcomes coalescing into a space where you can sort of see, okay, where are students at? What do they need? What kind of support do they need? How is that going to influence things that we're doing programmatically as well as for the next as a student goes to another institution for the kind of a handoff, so to speak, because it won't just be your data is stuck at some institution. It's going with you. It's actually traveling along with you, and it might be enabled in some sort of bitcoin wallet that's kind of independent from an institution that's kind of a buzword. But at the same time, that's kind of the ultimate goal, I think, for a lot of companies that are thinking more about the openness of all this. I mean, when you think about the space that I'm currently in and how we interface into higher Ed, it's not just know, NASPA and Acro are playing a big part in this.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:22:53]:

Acro is the Admissions and Registrars Association. They're kind of the home of registrars professionally and technically. Usually that's where the transcript resides. The Lumina Foundation, the big organizations focused on learning and outcomes over the years to even Walmart, because Walmart, I think they're the largest employer in the US. And one of the largest globally. They employ a huge number of people. And so they're thinking about the pathways from higher ed into different careers. I think the pathways piece is one I also want to introduce to this conversation, because it's important to give learners pathways even if they don't graduate, so that people aren't just left with debt and a handful of credits.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:23:31]:

What is it they're actually going to be able to get, even if they don't finish. Because as you know, Jill, sometimes success for one person is just a couple semesters of college and that is like a hugely successful outcome for them. Whereas for a lot of other people, maybe it's graduation, maybe it's master's degree, maybe it's a certificate. Success is very much an individualized thing.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:51]:

Still, it's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:57]:

Jill's, so excited to be back again in the NASPA world. A ton of things happening in NASPA. So many of us have been hearing a ton about artificial intelligence. We are starting to explore it or delve deeper into it on our own college campuses. And in the most recent Leadership Exchange magazine, which you all have access to as a member of NASPA, the editors and authors of that magazine did delve deeply into artificial intelligence in the Metaverse and really asked a broader question of whether our profession, whether student affairs is ready for this. It was a fascinating article and definitely a fascinating magazine. To delve much deeper into this topic. I highly encourage you to go to the NASPA website and you can go under publications to the Leadership Exchange magazine and log in and be able to read that for yourself.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:03]:

If you want to check out all the different professional development opportunities, and I know I share a lot of them with you on a regular basis, but if you go under the Events and Online Learning tab, you're going to find everything that is happening within NASPA and around NASPA, all the different professional development opportunities that are available. And this is a great way for you to be able to find things that connect with your professional growth and professional learning that you want. And it will open up opportunities for you to be able to see different ways in which you can grow and learn in your own professional journey. So lots of things happening in NASPA, lots of ways to stay connected with NASPA. Start at the NASPA website, naspa.org, and go and check it out for yourself. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers or the divisions of the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:24]:

And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit, where do you want to give back each week? We're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas. That will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that, or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:19]:

A wonderful NASPA World segment as always, Chris, we really appreciate you keeping us updated. What's going on in and around NASPA? Eric, we are now at our lightning round. I have 90 seconds for you to answer seven questions. You ready to roll?

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:27:31]:

That's like one of those if a train leaves Chicago heading 5 miles an hour kind of questions. I'm ready to go, Jill. Let's go.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:36]:

All right, question number one. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:27:42]:

Well, I've been a conference keynote speaker for many different events, so I always like to go with the Glitch mob. They were always pretty good.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:49]:

Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:27:52]:

When I was five years old, I was a little kid in Iowa on a gravel road. I think I wanted to be probably an NBA player because then I would have pavement.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:01]:

Number three, your most influential professional mentor.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:28:04]:

Gosh, there have been so many. I'd say one of the most influential professional mentors I've ever had. Just one. So Kevin Krueger, when we were doing our pre show talk, he's been an instrumental part of my career over the years, and I always appreciated his leadership at NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:20]:

Number four, your essential higher education. Read.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:28:23]:

I would be remiss if I did not say Insidehired.com. I Know that Scott Jassic is retiring as Editor co Editor Of Inside Higher Ed. It's still, in my view, one of the best sites out there for comprehensive coverage of what's going on in higher ed.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:37]:

Number five, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:28:40]:

Oh, gosh, that was years ago now. The best show? Well, my second son was born during the pandemic, and I watched ridiculous amounts of things late, late at night. I would say some sort of Scandinaro thing on Netflix, because that was kind of what I was into at the time.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:56]:

Pandemic's been over for years for you. It's only been over for eight months. Where I'm at. Number six, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:29:04]:

I would say anything from the Enrollify Podcast network. I like the work that they've done. I feel like their shows are really put together nicely, and there's always interesting topics in terms of higher ed innovation and technology.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:17]:

And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:29:20]:

First of all, I'd just like to say thank you to Jill for asking me to come on the show. I think that it's always nice to reconnect with folks from Oregon State. So I'll just give you a big shout out because it's been a blast to follow your career sort of vicariously through social networks and social media know you've been just a huge leader around the globe. I mean, you've been everywhere, it seems. So I'm going to give Jill a shout out because I don't think she probably gets enough on these things.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:45]:

Thank you. Appreciate it. Eric, it's been such a joy to catch up with you. I've also followed your career just on social. This is the strength of weak ties. I'll cite Granavetter here as a scholar that I read a lot in my public administration doctorate program. But the Strength of Weak Ties, we haven't spoken maybe ten years probably, but it's so lovely to understand and see how we're both contributing, knowing we started off as babies in grad school. And it's very nice to see what success looks like and means for various people from that time in our lives.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:15]:

And if folks would like to reach you after the show, how can they find you?

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:30:17]:

Territorium.com? Or you can always just Google Eric Stoller. Something will come up, most likely. My email is Eric@territorium.com.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:25]:

Eric with a C. Exactly.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:30:27]:

E-R-I-C.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:28]:

Thank you so much for sharing your voice with us.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:30:30]:

Thanks so much, Jill. It's been great.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:32]:

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:58]:

We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show. And please like, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill L. Creighton Seth Me produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Guest coordination by Lu Yongru.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:23]:

Special thanks to Duke Kunshan University and the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

View Details

Welcome to another episode of SA Voices from the Field podcast. In today's episode, we have a special guest joining us, Kenneth Samson. Kenneth is not only a first-generation American college student, but also a new father.

In this episode of "Student Affairs Voices From the Field," Dr. Jill Creighton welcomes Kenneth Samson, a first-generation American college student who also falls into the category of a 1.5 generation student. Kenneth's parents have college degrees, but they graduated in the Philippines, which presented unique challenges for him as he navigated the American college system. He shares his journey, starting at Pasadena City College and eventually transferring to California State University, Los Angeles, where he graduated with a BA in English. Despite needing guidance as a first-generation student, Kenneth struggled to seek help due to his unfamiliarity with the process.

Kenneth's story doesn't end there. He went on to teach English to medical school and high school students for over a decade, many of whom were also first-generation or 1.5 generation students. He recently completed his Master's of Education in educational counseling at USC, with the goal of supporting students and promoting help-seeking behaviors, particularly for marginalized students in Southern California Community Colleges. Kenneth is embarking on a new career as a counselor at Long Beach City College and a counseling instructor at multiple colleges while celebrating the arrival of his two-month-old son, Kenji.

Throughout the conversation, Kenneth emphasizes the importance of networking and utilizing resources, especially during transitions. He discusses how he manages his various roles and transitions by meticulously organizing his schedule with Google Calendar. Kenneth also reflects on how his teaching approach has evolved from K-12 to higher education, emphasizing empowerment and bravery in students. He encourages others to follow their dreams and not be afraid to make career transitions, even if it means taking a leap of faith. He shares his experience of dealing with rejection during the job application process and the importance of seeking feedback for personal growth. Kenneth's story serves as an inspiring example of perseverance, adaptability, and the pursuit of one's passions in the field of student affairs.

Please subscribe to SA Voices from the Field on your favorite podcasting device and share the podcast with other student affairs colleagues!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]:

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:36]:

He had a little help from his parents, who had no experience navigating the American college system. He attended Pasadena City College, transferred to California State University, Los Angeles, and graduated with a BA. In English with little help from academic counselors, not because he did not want help, but because he did not know how to ask for help. He's taught English to medical school and high school students for over a decade. Many of those students are first generation American students and 1.5 generation students. He's most recently graduated from the educational counseling program at USC with a Master's of Education in hopes of serving students by promoting help seeking behaviors while increasing outreach for first generation and marginalized students in Southern California Community College. He's beginning his new career this fall as a counselor at Long Beach City College, as well as a counseling instructor at Rio Hondo College, East Los Angeles College and Pasadena City College. Kenneth is also a new father to his two month old son, Kenji.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:30]:

Kenneth, welcome to SA Voices.

Kenneth Samson [00:01:33]:

Hello, Jill. Happy to be here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:35]:

We're doing our season all on transitions, and you have quite a few of them, and I'm looking forward to getting into your story and what you've learned. But we always like to start our episodes by asking our guests how you found your way to your current position.

Kenneth Samson [00:01:48]:

So I'm in transition right now, so I have a few current positions. I'm actually a teaching adjunct counseling instructor at Pasadena City College, also East Los Angeles College, also Rio Hondo College, and I will be getting actual counseling hours as an adjunct counselor at Long Beach City College. I honestly got that through networking. I graduated from the educational counseling program at USC, and I honestly got it through networking from USC. The USC network is very strong, very powerful. Educational counseling program is also very strong, and I would not have any of these jobs if it was not for that program.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:25]:

So that is a lot of transition happening for you. You also have transition happening in your personal life, right?

Kenneth Samson [00:02:31]:

Yes. I am a new father. My son is two months old. His name is Kenji. Hello, Kenji. If you ever listen to this in the future yes. So that's brand new, super exciting. I also just graduated my program, so going from student to professional and then basically also to fatherhood.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:51]:

So that's a lot happening all at once. So my question in this area is really about how you're managing all of these transitions, what you're thinking about, what is working, what is scaring you, all of those things. So why don't we start with how are you finding yourself managing through all of these transitions?

Kenneth Samson [00:03:07]:

I think the biggest thing is Google Calendar. I'm not sponsored by Google. This is not product placement, but because when I was doing my grad work, I was using my calendar on my phone. I was using Google Calendar. I was using Calendar on Outlook, and I had three different calendars going at the same time. And I learned from that mistake. Someone told me, just put it all on one calendar. I was like, okay, which 01:00 a.m.

Kenneth Samson [00:03:31]:

I going to use. The most accessible and easiest one to use for me was Google Calendar. So I just have it all there. Easy for me to see. In addition, my partner can see what I'm doing, what site I'm at, right? Because I'm at four different colleges. So it helps her. Also.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:46]:

That's an interesting part of your transition, too, that you didn't just move from student to professional. You moved from student to professional with four different work environments. And so daily or weekly, you're transitioning.

Kenneth Samson [00:03:57]:

Through those as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:58]:

So tell us about how you found yourself able to settle into each community, knowing that each community is a little different.

Kenneth Samson [00:04:05]:

So knowing the they're all in Southern California, right? And when you are adjuncting, especially at community colleges, right. They call you a freeway flyer. So I'm definitely a freeway flyer, right. Flying from one campus to another. How I really got with this community was honestly through again, that network at USC, the educational counseling program, being able to build from that and meeting people through there, getting support through there and then having people from that program. Connect me with other people in the career center or in student affairs or at the transfer center. Just building that community within those college spaces.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:43]:

And what about your first couple of days at each space? How did you ensure a landing that worked for you?

Kenneth Samson [00:04:50]:

So for some of them, I have not started yet. Right. I just got hired at HR. Interesting. For the ones that I have been able to land, actually, I was also interning there beforehand, so I mentioned Pasadena City College. I was actually a student there way back when. I was a community college student, eventually transferred, so I felt home there. That's definitely where I want to end up.

Kenneth Samson [00:05:14]:

But I'm open to ending up any community college, supporting any population or any specific group of students. But that's really where I feel at home, because that's actually where I met my partner. So we were actually freshmen first semester, right out of high school. We were in something called a block program, which basically was like a cohort model. And I noticed her, she noticed me, and we've been together ever since, basically now we have a child together, right. And she actually works there as well. So she's a full time tenure English professor over there. So for Pasadena City College.

Kenneth Samson [00:05:47]:

Really felt home there. East Los Angeles College is the other place where I'm also familiar with I was an intern there at the transfer center. Everyone just talked about how great this graduate internship was at the transfer center, and really I learned so much there. The director over there, Kirby Dominguez is it. He really wants you to learn and really isn't intimidating and allows you to ask questions. Right. To make sure you're giving the best information and the correct information to students, especially when it comes to transfer.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:17]:

What does that mean for you to move from that intern space to that professional space?

Kenneth Samson [00:06:22]:

For me, it's huge. It's definitely a shift. The biggest jump or the biggest change is the paycheck. Obviously you're like, oh wow, all of a sudden I'm making good money. So that was interesting. But in terms of the professional space, both places, honestly, I didn't feel like an intern because neither one of those places, they don't really call. On paper, you're an intern, but the title that they give you when you're there, it's not intern. At PCC Pasadena City College, I was a success coach.

Kenneth Samson [00:06:52]:

And even their interns or their hourly, they don't call hourly or interns. They call them professional experts. So they already gave you that idea of, oh, hey, you're a professional, you know what you're doing here? We hired you for a reason. Same thing at East Los Angeles College, even though it's unclassified paid. Intern is what they're called right. At the transfer center. The transfer center, they call us transfer mentors because we're mentoring these community college students to transfer to a four year university, whether that's in state, out of state, private.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:19]:

Have you had to do any redefining of your relationships with colleagues that knew you as that success coach that are now seeing you as an instructor?

Kenneth Samson [00:07:26]:

No, honestly, and I think because they know my past. I actually was a K through twelve teacher for quite some time after getting my bachelor's, so I didn't go back to get my master's until a decade later, basically. So I was in the professional space in K through twelve for a while. So they knew that, oh, he has teaching experience, which is probably why I've gotten so many classes at three different colleges. Right. Lucky enough that helped me leverage my experience, helped me leverage getting those positions.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:58]:

That K twelve space to higher ed is a jump that I hear a lot from K twelve educators who are looking to break into the higher ed space. Do you have any advice for others who are trying to make that leap?

Kenneth Samson [00:08:08]:

Yes. And this is the advice that someone gave me. If you're going to do that leap, jump in the deep end, jump in headfirst all the way. Right. I had a full time position going K through twelve teaching, and I decided that, oh, I want to work specifically at the California Community College level. And someone told me, if you're going to do that, you have to go all in and you have to really do the internships, you have to really invest your time and it'll pay off. And that's what I did. I left my full time job with benefits, took a huge pay cut, right.

Kenneth Samson [00:08:40]:

I was doing like two, three internships, but still, that was nothing compared to what I used to make. And also I was paying a USC tuition, so luckily I had some savings. But it was definitely a shift economically for me. But that's my advice, because at the end it'll pay off. And really what you'll learn as an intern is invaluable, and it's so much easier to ask, I think, administrators, deans, oh, I'm a student and I want experience in this. Right. The thing is, if have a full time job, when will you have the time to ask for that, get that experience?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:13]:

And that is definitely an amazing thing that you're able to do. And at the same time, I know there's a lot of folks for whom that would not be economically possible. Do you have any advice for those who can't maybe take that leap as deeply scholarships?

Kenneth Samson [00:09:25]:

That's something I learned not just at USC, but even as a transfer mentor at East Los Angeles college scholarships. Right. Apply to any and all of them. Don't tell yourself no, let them tell you, you know, there's a scholarship for anything and everything under the sun. In addition, there are scholarships. Even if you don't identify with that specific group, if you're supporting that group, they'll recognize, oh, this person is helping our community. They're giving us something, why not give something back to that individual?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:52]:

What about mindset? Transitions, transitioning from that k twelve space where you're teaching children to the collegiate space where you're teaching adults. How have you shifted the way that you think about teaching?

Kenneth Samson [00:10:04]:

I teach at a supplemental education center also, so I still actually teach just a few classes on the weekend to K through twelve students, middle school and high school specifically. And I think being in the program and seeing the college space that they're hoping to get into has changed my mind into not necessarily hammering them with content, but helping them develop ideas. Because before at the supplemental education center, I teach grammar and writing, right. And I teach grammar to first generation students and also 1.5 generation students. And it's something where their parents really want them to learn the grammar and syntax of the English language because maybe they're not getting it at home. And so initially, that's how I kind of hammered it down, even with their writing, even with their reading comprehension to break it down, grammatically syntactically for them to understand. But with my counseling training and even entering the college space, I've learned that they're going to get that eventually. There is time for that.

Kenneth Samson [00:11:01]:

But thing is to build up their confidence, allow them to come up with ideas, not make it seem like college is so scary. Because I think when I was a high school teacher and before I entered the college space as a professional, it was like, oh, well, college professors, college instructors, they're going to expect this from you and that from you. And being in that space, it's like, oh no, actually they're compassionate as well as compassionate as I was in the K through twelve. Right. They understand life circumstances. They understand that life happens and that they're human. Also. It's not that, oh, because you're in college now, there's some type of rigor that they won't be used to.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:37]:

I want to co sign something you said about encouraging people to come up with their own ideas. And it sounds like what you're really teaching is bravery. And I read an article recently that bravery is the number one trait or skill set that we can help instill in young people, to help create a kind of a forward thinking human being or encourage a forward thinking human being. More so than anything else, there's all these articles about resilience and critical thinking and all these other things, but bravery is really that number one.

Kenneth Samson [00:12:03]:

Yes, empowering students, and not just empowering students, but giving them that space to feel empowered I think is important.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:10]:

Absolutely. So in all of these transitions that you're experiencing, is there anything that you can look back on and say, I really wish I would have known X, Y, or Z before starting the transition process, or anything that you wish you would have done maybe a little differently?

Kenneth Samson [00:12:24]:

I really wish I would have prepared more. I think before graduating, I knew what jobs I wanted to apply to and I knew what colleges I was going to apply to and doing that preparation into the professional world because I had a resume, I had a cover letter, and it was kind of generic. It wasn't tailored to that college that now I know, oh no, you need to tailor it to that college, to that program. It was difficult for me because then I had the time right before I graduated to do that, but I didn't take it because I was like, oh, I worked so hard in my master's program, I'm going to kind of coast till the end. Well, after I graduated, my son was born. And then it's like, oh, you don't have time to work on your resume or your cover letter or these applications like you wanted to. You should have done that earlier. Right.

Kenneth Samson [00:13:10]:

So just definitely pre planning, especially since I knew he was coming, maybe had.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:16]:

A little advanced notice.

Kenneth Samson [00:13:18]:

Yeah.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:19]:

And with that in mind, the transition to parenthood is a major shift in any human being's life. How have you managed the transition to balancing the needs, your family and also the burgeoning career that you're developing?

Kenneth Samson [00:13:31]:

Yeah, I think definitely carving out time that is dedicated to my family and telling my coworkers, my colleagues, and even my friends, oh, this is my family time. Right. Because with all those jobs, with those classes that I teach and those counseling hours that I will eventually be covering, I want them to know, oh, when I'm there, I'm there for you wholeheartedly. I'm there 110%. You have my undivided attention. But then when I'm home, that's home time for my family to make sure because I want to show my son that he can do all of these things right. But I also want him to know me as well. I don't want to be the parent that, oh, he comes home at like 08:00 P.m.

Kenneth Samson [00:14:07]:

And then leaves at 08:00 A.m. Or even 07:00 A.m. Because right. I'm in Southern California, in Los Angeles area, so traffic is crazy over here. And he's gone to I can tell now, but it's summer, so I'm excited for the semester to start. But I'm also sad because I know I'm going to see less of him, but I want him to you know, that's my dad. He's here, he's got me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:28]:

And is there any other major transition that you're going through right now? And we've talked about family. We've talked about graduating, starting new positions, and even switching industries. There's just so many transitions that you're reflecting on. Is there anything that we're not talking about?

Kenneth Samson [00:14:45]:

I hope that's all. If there's anything else, I think that kind of covers it. I think that's enough.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:51]:

Oh, absolutely. Is there anything in all these transitions that didn't go well for you?

Kenneth Samson [00:14:56]:

Yeah, going back to application process, I did apply to one specifically that I really wanted to work at, and it didn't pan out. I didn't even get an interview, and I was like, One of my Femtors works there. And I was like, how awesome will it be that I'm going to work under my Femtor at this college? And it basically didn't happen. And that really hurt me a bit. Kind of shattered some dreams because that application in all the application pools was the first one to open. So right after that, I was kind of discouraged. I didn't know I didn't even get an interview, and I thought I was a pretty competitive candidate. That one really still hurts.

Kenneth Samson [00:15:35]:

But I was lucky enough to do meet with my Femtor, get some feedback, not just on my application, but my cover letter as well and my resume. I'm like, oh, I know I'll eventually end up there. I'm going to apply next year and keep applying.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:48]:

That's a really wonderful approach to that kind of disappointment. It's not a question of beating yourself up about it. It's a question of how can I improve so I can be more competitive in the future, and we just don't know what we're up against often in those job pools or what it is about our materials that weren't necessarily attractive to that search committee in that first round. So I just really appreciate your approach of going, okay, let's turn this around and just look a little differently.

Kenneth Samson [00:16:12]:

Yeah. And after that, right now, I'm at four community colleges. I'm like, oh, so maybe I wasn't the right fit for them at that time, but I was the right fit for these other community colleges right. That needed me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:24]:

Is there anything else that you want our listeners to hear about your advice for transitioning?

Kenneth Samson [00:16:29]:

Maybe as cheesy or as corny as this sounds, honestly, follow your dreams. Like, I'm living proof. I'm working at where I started my higher education career as a student. I'm an adjunct instructor there now. Also, don't be afraid. I was very afraid to leave my job, leave my full time job with benefits. But if it's something that you want to do and something that you're passionate about, go and do it, because it's better to see how it turns out than live in regret, I think, right? And for really, it's no regrets.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:03]:

It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:09]:

Jill's so excited to be back again in the NASPA world. A ton of things happening in NASPA, and it's exciting time to be a part of our profession because there's so much going on. And it's an exciting time just on campuses because fall has started. We're back into the mix of things, and there's definitely a lot happening on our campuses. Sometimes it's hard to stay on top of things. I know that. I sometimes feel that way. I'm sure that you feel that way as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:39]:

But it's always important to try to stay connected with what's going on in the profession broader than our campus. And there's a ton of ways to do that. There's ways to do that and getting involved at the association level. You can get involved in different knowledge communities in different divisions and groups. Lots of ways to be able to not only give back your own talents, but also lots of ways to stay connected. And when I say get involved, that doesn't mean that you have to take a leadership role. It could just be reading what's being sent out. It could be being a program reviewer and giving a little bit of time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:17]:

There's lots of ways. One of the things that I always encourage people to do every fall is to log back in to your NASPA portal. And when you go to the NASPA website, you'll see a login button at the top of the screen. You just log in there. And when you log in, one of the things to do is to review all of your information so you can click on my NASPA and where it says Edit my profile, click on that and review all your information. Make sure that all your information is correct. And if your membership is coming up too close to be due, you want to make sure that you do renew your membership, but also set those notification preferences on your profile. Make sure that you're signed up for the knowledge communities or the areas that you want to get information from because this is a way for you to be able to stay connected.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:13]:

And if you're not connected, if you haven't signed up for any of the different engagement opportunities, then you're not going to end up being able to get information from those. So make sure that you go in and I say to do this at least once a year to make sure that everything's up to date. And then you'll be up to date. You'll be getting all the information and be in the know, talking about being in the know. One of the other things that I have talked to you about in the past, but I encourage you to do on a regular basis, is go back to the NASPA website, go under the latest and under the latest. This is where you can find not only all the past episodes of Essay Voices from the Field, but this is where you can find the blog for NASPA, all the statements that NASPA puts out, the press releases, other projects and initiatives that they're working on. But on the blog you're going to see up to date information that will keep you in the know of new things that are happening within our association, within higher education and beyond. Urge you to keep an eye here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:31]:

All of the knowledge communities try to keep this up to date. Many of the different areas within NASPA try to keep it up to date with blogs and articles to be able to engage you as members. And these are written by members of the association like yourself. So jump on here, make sure that you stay in the know and be able to see what is happening within the profession. So lots of things happening in NASPA, lots of ways to stay connected with NASPA. Start at the NASPA website, naspa.org and go and check it out for yourself. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:24]:

Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself. Where do you fit. Where do you want to give back? Each week? We're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:36]:

Chris, thanks so much for keeping us updated on what's going on in and around NASPA. We really appreciate you putting together those segments every week. Kenneth, we have now reached our lightning round time. I have about 90 seconds for you to answer seven questions. You ready to go?

Kenneth Samson [00:22:50]:

Yeah. Let's do it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:50]:

All right, question number one. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Kenneth Samson [00:22:56]:

Bohemian Rhapsody.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:57]:

Number two. When you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Kenneth Samson [00:23:00]:

A karate instructor.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:01]:

Number three. Who's your most influential professional mentor?

Kenneth Samson [00:23:04]:

Dr. Robert opentile.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:06]:

Number four. Your essential student affairs.

Kenneth Samson [00:23:08]:

Read anything inside the higher ed.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:10]:

Number five. The best TV show you binged during the pandemic.

Kenneth Samson [00:23:13]:

The Big bang theory.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:15]:

Number six. And I know you commute a lot, so hopefully you've got a good one for this. The podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Kenneth Samson [00:23:22]:

American capitalism or capitalist America?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:24]:

And finally, number seven. Any shout outs you'd like to give? Personal or professional?

Kenneth Samson [00:23:27]:

Yes. Shout out to Juliana Sampson, my wife. I love you so much. Shout out to Kenji Sampson, my two month old son. I love him so much as well. I do everything for you all. Shout out to my family, friends. Shout out again to the USC Educational Counseling program.

Kenneth Samson [00:23:45]:

I would not be where I am without all of you over there.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:47]:

Kenneth, it's been such a pleasure getting to know you better on the show here. If anyone would like to reach you after this airs, how can they find you?

Kenneth Samson [00:23:53]:

LinkedIn is probably the best way to reach out to me professionally. So it's basically LinkedIn.com. Kennethsampson. That's K-E-N-N-E-T-H-S-A-M-S-O-N. That's probably the best way to get to me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:08]:

Thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Kenneth Samson [00:24:10]:

Thank you, Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:12]:

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:37]:

We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show. And please like, rate and review us on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill L. Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Guest coordination by Lu Yongru. Special thanks to Duke Kunshan University and the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

View Details

Welcome back to another episode of SA Voices From The Field! In today's episode, we have a special guest, Hyunmin Kim, who will be sharing their insights and experiences in the field of higher education and student affairs.

In this episode of the "Student Affairs Voices From the Field" podcast, Dr. Jill Creighton interviews Hyunmin Kim, the assistant director of residential life for the Courtyards at the University of Maryland. Hyunmin shares his journey into student affairs and his recent transition into his current role.

Hyunmin's journey into student affairs began with a personal connection to residential life, as he grew up in a family housing unit on a university campus. He found his passion for working with students while in college, leading him to pursue a master's degree in public administration with a focus on educational leadership. His career path eventually led him to become the assistant director at the Courtyards.

During the discussion, Hyunmin reflects on his first 90 days in his new role, highlighting the challenges and learning experiences. He emphasizes the importance of taking time to reflect and recharge, especially in a field that can be emotionally demanding.

Hyunmin also discusses his approach to supervising professional staff and the transition from supervising paraprofessionals. He values building close relationships with those he supervises and believes in a balance of professionalism and personal connection.

Looking ahead, Hyunmin discusses his plans to focus on building a strong culture and traditions within the Courtyards community. He aims to engage upperclassmen residents and establish a legacy of involvement and participation. Additionally, he explores ways to use social media to connect with students and meet them where they are while maintaining the university's educational mission.

In conclusion, Hyunmin encourages others in the field to smile, remember why they chose student affairs, and be innovative in their approach to engage and support students. He also stresses the importance of setting a positive and inclusive culture within residential communities.

Please subscribe to SA Voices from the Field on your favorite podcasting device and share the podcast with other student affairs colleagues!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]:

Welcome to Student Affairs Voices From the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 9 on transitions in student affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, And I'm Dr. Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on SA Voices, we're pleased to feature Hyunmin Kim, who is serving as the assistant director of residential life for the Courtyards at the University of Maryland. He was born in Seoul, South Korea, but was raised in Nashville, Tennessee. He has a master's in public administration from American University with a focus in educational leadership. At the courtyards you could always find him joking with residents and looking to find new and interesting ways to interact with residents. Hyun Min, welcome to the show.

Hyunmin Kim [00:00:48]:

Hello. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:50]:

And we're talking to you today from Maryland College Park.

Hyunmin Kim [00:00:53]:

Yes? Yes. That is correct.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:54]:

Well, we're glad to get to know you today in our theme of transitions. And one of the things that we love to kick off our show with is asking someone how they got to their current seat. So what is your come up journey to being the assistant director at Maryland College Park?

Hyunmin Kim [00:01:08]:

Yeah. I love giving a good old origin story. I think it's a pretty common story amongst higher educators. I think when I started college, I had A little bit of, like, an idea about, like, something that I wanted to do. And then I got to college, and I realized that it just really wasn't for me, and I had no passion for it. So it was time for a bit of soul searching. Right? Because, obviously, it's just like I work my whole life for a specific goal and then just goes down the drain. So I kinda started to think back about kind of experiences that I had growing up that I really enjoyed.

Hyunmin Kim [00:01:35]:

So my parents immigrated from South Korea. My dad did his PhD in Nashville at Vanderbilt University, And we lived in a residential college then, like a family housing unit. And I remember as a kid just kind of being a part of that community growing up, just going to those events at the rec centered with my father, and it was I think it was a lot of fun for me as a kid. So then I got involved on our campus, you know, through hall council. It's very you know, the classic higher ed store. Hall council, RHA, the desk, and all that. Then kinda slowly, I just realized that I had a real passion for it, so I did my master's in public administration and leadership Development. And then did my grad work, and then I just ended up at the Courtyard at the University of Maryland, and I just kind of ended up as the assistant director.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:12]:

And how long have you been in that assistant director seat now?

Hyunmin Kim [00:02:16]:

Since May of this year, so not too long. Not too long. Very fresh, the position.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:19]:

Absolutely. And before that, you were in the coordinator position at the same university. Yes?

Hyunmin Kim [00:02:25]:

Yes. I was a resident director.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:27]:

So one of the things we're gonna be focusing on for you today is the 90 day story, the 90 day transition because you're basically just coming out of the other side of that 90 days, right about now. And interesting for your transition that it happened really in the summertime, which is a much more chill time to transition a position in our industry than it would be if you did it in, like, October or something. So tell us about the beginnings of the transition in terms of wanting to interview with your current colleagues for a position because I know that that can be a really nerve wracking space.

Hyunmin Kim [00:02:57]:

I think the first thing that I really thought about was when when they approached me, like, hey. Like, this This position's opening up. Would you be interested? It's a less formal interview process because we know you, but would you still be interested? And I think I really thought it's like, Am I qualified to be the assistant director? Right? Because I'm I think I'm on the younger side, for higher educators. I'm, like, coming into, like, Year 2 of it, so I was a resident director for a year, and then they approached me at this position. And I think that was the first thing that I thought was, like, am I ready? Can I actually do it, and what do I actually what does an assistant director actually do? And I talked to my boss who was the assistant director at the time, And she was like, you're ready. I mean, you you worked underneath me. You can do it. It's just a matter of getting there and just showing up for the job and following through and and learning as you go and Kind of understanding how the role plays a part into the community as you continue to work in the role.

Hyunmin Kim [00:03:46]:

So, you know, I go through the process. I think now that I've kind of been that 90 day, as you said, it's I feel like now I'm slowly getting comfortable as to what I'm supposed to do. The qualified part, I think every day, that's a struggle just, like, knowing if I'm doing the I think if this is actually making a good impact for my student staff or the students that I work with, I think it was overall a very interesting transition, and I think a lot of time for Self reflection on my part about my years as a director.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:09]:

So in that self reflection, how did you come to the determination that you were ready and you didn't wanna apply?

Hyunmin Kim [00:04:14]:

I think my life's Motto has always been, you gotta try it first. And if it doesn't work, then, like, you'll know, but, like, you gotta at least try. And I'm a very hands on guy. I've always been more of human, and I've just really enjoyed getting my hands deep with the students. So I think my mindset was is if I'm just in my head space constantly fighting demons, that I I really never will know, and then it'll go to someone else who may not know the community as well as I do, who may not know my students as well as I do, who may not know the needs as well as I do. And I think I came to kind of the conclusion that I do know what my students need and what my students staff especially need. So I was just like, alright. We're gonna run with it.

Hyunmin Kim [00:04:48]:

We're gonna do it. And, If it doesn't work, then we're gonna grow, we're gonna improve, but I won't know until I try. So I just kind of jumped in a little bit. I turned off my brain a little bit.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:57]:

And you made that leap from 1st entry level professional into that mid level, like, as you said, pretty quickly. So what are the skills and abilities and knowledge areas that you needed or the KSAs in order to really start to think about the conceptualization of how your regular work and your mindset towards work need to change in that jump.

Hyunmin Kim [00:05:16]:

Yeah. I mean, I think as a resident director, you really are I mean, I've, you know, much love for all the resident directors. It's just you're really out there with the students. You're the 1st line of defense in the trenches, and I think sometimes it's easy to lose sight of the bigger picture as you're always just so, like, knee deep with students. And I think that year of Maybe with my RAs, it was just like I was just so knee deep with them. It was sometimes hard to see the bigger picture as to why sometimes my supervisors were making the decisions that were being made. I'm like, why why are we why we doing this, and I think going to my 1st NASP, interacting with, you know, the KC, but also just kind of, like, talking to other friend other colleagues and friends in the area. I had to kind of take a step back and kinda distance myself a little bit from my students who I enjoy so much just to kind of See the bigger picture.

Hyunmin Kim [00:05:58]:

Right? Because it's not just student staff that I work with or it's not just students that I work with. It it's the collective body of the courtyards, and and it was just trying I had to kind of just take a step back and be less hands on, be a little less turn off brainy, and actually turn on my brain a little bit more to see what the bigger picture was and to understand what it meant to To kind of make the harder decisions, the harder calls, and I guess transitioning my mindset to be a little bit more broader focused rather than so narrowly focused on Just like one specific sect, I guess, of higher ed.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:26]:

And when you think about working with the students, which I think is why almost all of us got into higher education is we're really passionate about working with developing adults. How has that changed your relationship with the students in your community given now that you're not in the day to day and you're in that mid level leadership space?

Hyunmin Kim [00:06:42]:

Honestly, I think especially right now because it it has been my and now, like, the school year started, I'm not doing as much up front interaction with the residents. It's a little lonely. Like, I'm not gonna lie. Like, middle management is great, but also I think there's a little bit of loneliness at the top. I see them a lot less, and I can't interact with them as much. So I find myself talking to them more, which I don't know if they want that from me, but, like, I get a lot more Excited now. So I find myself actually just going up to them a lot more, asking my RD, like, what's the deal with this resident? What's the deal with this RA? Like, I think I try to Stay in the notes, stay in the loop more. I I find myself spending more time at programs.

Hyunmin Kim [00:07:18]:

Like, I'll just kinda show up and just kinda sit there and be like, alright, guys. Just do your stuff. Like, I'm just gonna be here. I just wanna See what's going on. I just wanna know what's happening. So I think I've had to become a lot more intentional with how I interact with students because it really is kinda why we all do it. When you are middle management, you see it a lot less, And it's a lot more paperwork and which is so much fun. But leaving that office is like, let's talk to people. But yeah. So just being a lot more intentional in my interactions with them and Approaching them a lot more and making them talk to me a lot more.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:45]:

So that 90 day space is a really critical upstart time for anyone in a new position. And even if you've been at the same institution, there's a lot to learn. So can you tell us about how you approached that 1st day of entering into that new space, you know, mentally coming onto campus and knowing, okay. Today, I'm the assistant director. And then how did you strategize for yourself looking ahead in those first

Hyunmin Kim [00:08:05]:

90? When I transitioned, all of us were transitioning into new spaces as well. So my supervisor, who is still my supervisor, she's now the associate director, like, of the courtyards and the commons, and And we were looking for a new resident director. So within that 90 days, it was just a lot of hat juggling for me. It's like, are you still kind of the resident director? You're still kind of the assistant. My boss is busy. Like, I don't know where she is. Like, I'm just juggling hats here. And I think it was really just I have to hold down the fort 1st, cover all our bases, and then I can kind of process what it means to be an assistant director.

Hyunmin Kim [00:08:39]:

So I think for the 1st 45 days, it was just me, like, Cutting out fires, just making sure that, like, everything was, like, fine and ready, you know, for the move in process to start, like, late July, like, early August, just all of that. Like, make sure that all of that's ready. Making sure that my resident director is prepped and ready to go, thinking about what type of supervisor that I wanna be. So the 1st 45 days is just like, Like, the sky is literally falling. And then I think after those 45 days, after we got an a new resident director, I started to kinda have that mentorship responsibility. And I think It really hit me that day. It wasn't even the 1st day. I don't even think it was, you know, like, the 1st 45 days.

Hyunmin Kim [00:09:14]:

It was, like, the 1st, like, 60 days. My resident director just kinda sits out of my office. She kinda plops out. She just goes, How do you have all the answers, dude? I'm like, that was literally me last year. Right? Like, I was like, I got nothing for you. If you told me, hey, Hamdan, what's this policy? I'd be like, ask Olivia, who's my boss? And she just goes, how do you know everything? And I think During that conversation where she kinda felt like, I feel a little out of place because I feel like I don't know enough. And, you know, we were kinda able to have that Talk about, like, new employee kind of, like, loneliness, new employee, like, imposter syndrome that you feel when you're a new employee. I think helping her talk through that was kind of that, like, oh, I am someone's supervisor now.

Hyunmin Kim [00:09:53]:

And the kind of the pressure and the responsibility that comes with it, I think that it was that around that conversation when that hit. And that and that's kinda when, like, my mindset became less resident director and more assistant director.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:03]:

Are you supervising professional staff now as well?

Hyunmin Kim [00:10:06]:

Yeah. I have 1 resident director that I with us.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:08]:

Okay. So you've gone from supervising all paraprofessionals to supervising 1 full time professional. Tell us about that transition and how you've adjusted your supervisory style and maybe any reading or research that you've done on how you can be a good supervisor for that person.

Hyunmin Kim [00:10:21]:

I think I prefer professional Staff member a little bit more because I think with RAs, we're friendly. We have fun, but we there's, like, a line that you can't cross. And I still have to be, like, conscious of them. I I mean, we're all developing, but they're, like, in that extremely, like, developmental stage of their lives. So I Think any and all criticism and, like, feedback that I give to them, I like to just kinda be a little bit more mindful with it. And I think with a professional staff member because it is their full time job, we kinda talked. I was like, hey. Like, so So what do you need from me as your supervisor? And after I kinda learned that and I knew her previously because she was my RA, actually.

Hyunmin Kim [00:10:55]:

She She transitioned from that. We all just kind of did a little bit of a small leap over. So carrying that relationship over, having that preexisting between professional and paraprofessional to professional and professional. There was a lot for me to learn. So I think I obviously I talked to some of my bosses. Right? I talked to some of my other colleagues. Started doing a little bit of reading, like, as to because since I did do my master's in, like, management, like, leadership, stuff like that, I went back to my readings, went back to some of the essays that I wrote just Like, what was I thinking in grad school? Like, do I still think that way? Right? Because I I think it hasn't been too long, but I think just working with students, I think your thought process is subject Change a lot. And then I watched The Office.

Hyunmin Kim [00:11:33]:

I'm not going to lie. I just kinda sat down. I just kinda watched The Office, which is it's always a show, but it's the show that American workers voted, like, was the most relatable to them because it just kinda felt like The Office. So I just Sat down, and I just kinda started watching Michael Scott, Jim Halpert. Just though those people just going through their day to day, supervising each other, and Kind of like how interesting, like because I'm a big pop culture guy, so just kinda synthesize that pop culture element with that academic element to try to Synthesized that, and then I talked to my supervisee about it, and then we just kinda worked out that relationship that way.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:05]:

I think that's really fascinating that you use the office as kind of a Control case study on the work in higher ed. Because I think that, you know, the the core of Michael Scott as a character is that he's a horrible supervisor for most of his work, but he also deeply cares about his employees. He knows all the names of Angela's cats and things like that. Like, when Sprinkles dies, he doesn't even have to ask which cat. He just knows It's sprinkles. And so I think those things are are fascinating to learn. Like, oh, you can care deeply as a manager and still be a terrible manager, or you can be fairly decent as a manager, but your employees might not like to you. And there's probably a balance in there.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:36]:

I like Radical Candor personally, where it's been challenged directly and care personally. Those things I I think are critical, but we're all learning how to operationalize them even if we believe them in philosophy.

Hyunmin Kim [00:12:46]:

I would say I'm doing alright, but, you know, I'll have to ask her tomorrow. It's like, can I have a do it? But it was fun.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:51]:

So reflecting on that 1st 90 days now that you're you're through, is there anything that you wish you would have done a little differently to set yourself up for success?

Hyunmin Kim [00:12:58]:

I think I should have taken some more time to breathe in the 1st 90 days. I don't remember my 1st 90 days, if I'm gonna be completely honest. I blacked out For those 90 days. So if you told me what happened from May till, like, now, I'd be like, I couldn't tell you. There's isolated incidents, but I think I should have taken some more time to breathe. I'm a pretty reflective person normally, but I don't think I took as much time for myself to reflect During those 90 days, I think during that 1st week and stuff like that. I mean, obviously, I think thinking too much wouldn't have been great, but I think I just kind of, like, sped run it and just kinda push through it. So I think I just kinda overwhelmed myself to the point where, like, I think there was, like, a couple weekends back where I just had to, like, turn off, Every single device, like, every phone, I was like, hey.

Hyunmin Kim [00:13:41]:

I can't be on duty. Someone else can be on call. It's not me today. I just slept for, like, 18 hours, and And I was just like, I can't do this today. And I just ordered it and just, like, had a a me day, but I think that was long overdue because I think I should've Taking more time to take care of myself throughout that 1st 90 days. So Did you take a break at all between the RHD role and the assistant director role?

Hyunmin Kim [00:14:02]:

I had, like, a week and half home, which I think comes with other responsibilities. So when I'm home now, it's gotta help. I'm the eldest son of an immigrant family. Obviously, my parents, I'm very grateful. I think I have a less classic immigrant story than some of my other colleagues because my father is an English professor. So he's very fluent in English. I've never had to translate for that man. Like, that man speaks better English than most Americans do.

Hyunmin Kim [00:14:24]:

But it's just other responsibilities just being home, part of that community. So home is home, but it's not fully relaxing because you still gotta help your parents, your siblings while you're there, you know, the members of your community while you're there. So it went from, like, Helping 1 community to the next community. So by the time I got back, I was just, like, exhausted.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:42]:

So resting is a great tip. And then looking at your journey in the last 90 days of what's been really amazing or what's gone really well for you, what's something that you would definitely repeat when you make your next 90 day jump?

Hyunmin Kim [00:14:52]:

This was by accident because we were like, our offices were under construction, but I had to share an office with my RD for, like, a month. So we had, like, a fun little buddy cop set up where, like, both of our desks We're, like, pushed together so, like, we'd face each other at work.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:06]:

So you'd wait in gym?

Hyunmin Kim [00:15:07]:

Quite literally. I mean, we actually kinda have that dynamic as we play jokes on each together. It's very fun, but I don't know how feasible I would be in the next 90 day job because that would be a little bit of a higher position. But I really would wanna spend A lot more close time with the people that I supervise more so because those 30 days of me getting to know my RD a lot more Closer than when I knew her as an RA. It was just so much fun. It was in a very real time because she's my boss, like, question. And can we talk about this? Let's figure this out. We, like, interviewed our race together, like, in that office.

Hyunmin Kim [00:15:38]:

So it was a good time to kinda, like, very personally get to know her so I could have that professional, but also Have that, like, heart behind it. So now I can be like, alright. You better turn the center again. I'm gonna fire you, like, tomorrow. And she's like, yeah. If you would. And then we just, like, banter back and forth. We have, like, a very, like, Quippy and quirky dynamic, but I think that 30 days of sharing the office, I think, for me was extremely meaningful.

Hyunmin Kim [00:15:58]:

I don't know if she liked it, but I'd so if I could do that again, I'd wanna spend more time with the people that I supervise and a lot closer. Even if that meant I don't get to use my Nice office for a little bit. I just wanna spend as much time as I could with my supervisees before we hit the ball running again.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:13]:

So you've shared a lot of wisdom related to your own transition. Is there anything else that you wanna share regarding the last 90 days?

Hyunmin Kim [00:16:20]:

I would just say, like, smile. Like, just smile and just kinda remember why you started higher ed. And I think that was a big thing for me. Because this job, I feel like the field can get tiring. Student affairs is is inherently a tiring role because it's a people role. Our job is people. Our job is emotion, and our job is care. And we're all humans, and I think we all have that breaking point of when we give too much of us and there's not enough of us left.

Hyunmin Kim [00:16:44]:

And I think just smiling, remembering back why you started, going back Pure roots. Even for me, and I haven't been in a position very long. Sometimes I forget why I started. It sometimes just feels like a job, and it is. But at the end of the day, it was a passion project that I started that's been with me since I was a kid, and I think I just remember back to that level of joy that I had as a kid just growing up in a residential facility, but then as a college student, just all the fun times with the residents. Just What other position can you just yell on the quad at strangers? And that's fine. And it it's higher ed. Right? It's just such a fun, quirky, just Charismatic field where there really aren't as many borders as you'd like to think, but it's the fields continuously growing.

Hyunmin Kim [00:17:22]:

So I would just say smile, remember why you did it, and just remember to, I guess just be really innovative in what you do. Just because there's a set precedent about what higher it's supposed to be doesn't mean that that's the precedent we're supposed to always follow. And I think being a little unorthodox with it, there's nothing wrong with that. So if you're listening, smile, remember back, and be a little chaotic. A little bit of chaotic. It never did anyone wrong, I think, as long as metered, obviously, but that would be my words of advice for anyone who wants to start or who's in that transitionary period.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:50]:

And I'm hearing that as kinda smile for yourself, not like smile because other people are asking you to smile. Just to clarify. Absolutely. That's what I'm hearing. Thank you so much for the wisdom in this area. So let's look ahead for a second. You finished your 1st 90 days, like, moments ago. What are you looking at in the future 90 days?

Hyunmin Kim [00:18:09]:

Culture building is my next thing. So I'm a big believer in tradition and culture and fun rituals. So this idea got shut down, but I wanted to start, like, a ResLife Twitter account so we could, like, tweet other, Or I guess it's x now. But so we could start, like, talking to other resident halls so we could just casually hit up North Campus, be like, hey. Soccer 1 v one. Just kinda have that fun little banter between residence halls. They said we couldn't because, you know, like, it it'd be a problem. They're like, that's too professional.

Hyunmin Kim [00:18:34]:

I'm like, alright. My bad.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:36]:

Wendy's do it.

Hyunmin Kim [00:18:37]:

Right. That's what I'm saying. Imagine you wake up one day and 1 dorm's calling and another dorm's stinking, and it's like, oh, this is funny. Like and then you kinda see, like, what knowledge each storm has. And, you know, I think that would raise resident engagement and interest because you don't see that very often, but they wouldn't me. So it's okay. I'll figure it out another way to do it. But, no, I think tradition and culture establishing what it is to be, like, at courtyards, I think for me is is really important because COVID stopped a lot of that.

Hyunmin Kim [00:19:02]:

A lot of those older traditions and and, like, I think we had some good traditions, but I think as we need to, we need to evolve, we need to grow, and we need to Be hip with the times as as one might say. Woah. Woah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Hyunmin Kim [00:19:17]:

I know. My students are gonna kill me for that one. But, yeah, establishing tradition and and real culture, like a courtyards culture is, I think, what I'm looking to do now. So I guess right now is just assessing the needs of our students, and I don't mean the needs educationally. They got enough education going for them. I am not trying to, like, school them anymore, but How can I educate them in other ways, socially, right, culturally, just athletically? And our students just love sports. UMD is a great school in regards to Sports. We have great intramurals.

Hyunmin Kim [00:19:45]:

So I think something that we're trying to establish is a ResLife Soccer League or football for other people in the world, but, like, kind of just Setting a precedent for what it means to live at the courtyard because we do have primarily upperclassmen, and we have been known to be called the retirement community and which is fine. Our on call structure is great because they don't cause us as much problems, but it's that stigma. Upperclassmen don't care about ResLife. They don't wanna do anything. And I think How to embrace that apathy and make them care, but not care enough, but care enough to where they wanna do it. So establishing that culture of upperclassmen, I think, is What we're really looking to do, setting up legacy too. So our student recruitment process is gonna start very soon, so finding younger RAs and, like, obviously, I wouldn't discriminate based on age, but I think I have a little bit of a goal of trying to get a bit younger faces, so maybe sophomores, maybe juniors, where they can do 1, 2 years, not just 1 year and they're out, but, like, one, years 3 years even so that we can kind of set that legacy, set that tradition, set that precedent so we can kinda just keep building back. And we'll keep building now that that lockdown period has been over, but setting culture, setting legacy, setting a precedent as what it's like to live at Courtyards.

Hyunmin Kim [00:20:50]:

This is my next 90 day journey.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:51]:

You also mentioned something really important with the social media aspects, whether it be on a specific platform or not, which is just kind of trying to meet our students where they're at, which which has been a mission of student affairs professionals since the inception of the field. But I think what that means now for Gen zers is kind of embracing that Gen z humor that we see that some of us understand very well and some of us don't understand at all, but that Gen z humor is also relatable. And then balancing that line of we are still your university that's here to develop your student journey. And we know this research from millennials, but millennials hated it when their university was on Instagram and Facebook. And so it's also important to recognize that maybe that's how Gen z is engaging, but that's not how they wanna hear from us. So it it's kind of this fine balance of how we find it.

Hyunmin Kim [00:21:36]:

No. I think that's a really good point. It's like, how do we approach them? Because Gen Z is a little dark. They're a lot darker than, I think millennials, then they're very grind mindset heavy, but also, like, very, like, dark humor. So, obviously, it doesn't land well professionally Most of the time because you really can't say it in a professional setting. But I think finding that nuance of how to approach Gen z on social media has been An ongoing struggle with me because for us to really meet Gen z where they are, we do have to forego a lot of our preexisting notions of what it means to be a university account on social media. And fair enough, I think we're just scared of what the backlash is gonna be if we do start to adapt a little bit. Are we trying to be too hip? Like, Are we forcing it, or are we just unhinged, and are we offending people? And I think rightfully so, they stopped my idea, but I think it's our job also to try to figure out how we should modernize And meet them where they are or at least try to meet them where they are.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:27]:

It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Christopher Lewis [00:22:34]:

Thanks, Jill. Really excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a lot going on in NASPA. One of the things that I wanted to share today was a statement that NASPA put out just recently, the DACA ruling from the Southern District of Texas. If you didn't see that in your email, I am going to read it to you today to make sure that you are aware of NASPA's stance. A second ruling was issued in the middle of September by judge Andrew Hanon of the Southern District of Texas On the revised deferred action for childhood arrivals or DACA that sets up a likely return of DACA to the Supreme Court. Judge Hannon's decision reiterating his initial position that the program is unconstitutional signals a continued legal battle And holds in place a block on new recipients from applying, limiting the program's protections to current Recipients only. The Department of Homeland Security issued a final rule on DACA that should have gone into full effect on October 31, 2022. However, while an injunction from the US District Court for the Southern District of Texas remains in effect, DHS is prohibited from Granting initial DACA requests and related employment authorizations under the final rule.

Christopher Lewis [00:23:57]:

The political gamesmanship involved and the ongoing legal And legislative attacks on the DACA program continues the ambiguity experienced by an estimated 400,000 undocumented immigrants in higher education. NASPA supports the possibilities created by the DACA program, which provides educational and career pathways for immigrant students, faculty, and staff and creates a more robust and inclusive higher education community. We wish to amplify advocacy efforts by experts and organizations such as the President's Alliance on Higher Education and Immigration and the American Immigration Council Who are supporting students and advocating for permanent comprehensive legislative solutions. Reform is possible, full. Demonstrated by the introduction in this congress of the Bipartisan Dignity Act and the American Dream and Promise Act. Consult NASPA's position for immigration policy and higher education on the NASPA website for resources on advocating For a permanent solution with your lawmakers on the hill. We also encourage our members to download your state data 1 pager And the higher education immigration portal to develop evidence based talking points. You can go to the higher education immigration portal by going to to the following web address, higher ed immigration portal, all one word, .org.

Christopher Lewis [00:25:25]:

There's lots of deadlines coming up For the NASPA annual conference in Seattle, which is coming up over the next few months, and you wanna make sure that you're watching your email for those dates. One of the dates to keep in mind is November 3rd. That is the date that you do have to put in any request for non NASPA sponsored events, including events that might be from your own institution or from other organizations that you're a part of. So if you are planning to have a meeting or reception that you haven't put in yet, make sure to put that in soon. Also, watch in early October for the housing information for the conference. You know that those tend to fill up quickly, So you wanna make sure that you get your housing request in as soon as possible. And if you haven't registered yet, now is a great time. It's gonna be a great conference with tons of programs and a great way to reconnect and come back together To celebrate everything that is NASPA and everything that is higher education in student affairs.

Christopher Lewis [00:26:33]:

Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So We are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able To get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself Where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey. I see myself In that knowledge community, I see myself doing something like that or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to Think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association because through doing that, all of us are stronger and The association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:58]:

Producer Chris, thank you so much for your wisdom always in the NASPA world segment. We really appreciate you continuing to keep us updated on what's happening in and around NASPA. And, Hinnam, we've reached to our lightning round. So I've got 7 questions for you to answer in about 90 seconds. Here we go. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, What would your entrance music be?

Hyunmin Kim [00:28:20]:

Requiem by Mozart.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:21]:

Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Hyunmin Kim [00:28:25]:

A paleontologist.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:27]:

Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Hyunmin Kim [00:28:29]:

It'd be Hady Fultz at Kennesaw State University.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:33]:

Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Hyunmin Kim [00:28:36]:

Rainbow Fish, I don't know.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:38]:

Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic.

Hyunmin Kim [00:28:41]:

How I Met Your Mother.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:42]:

Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last fear.

Hyunmin Kim [00:28:46]:

The Daebak Show podcast with Eric Nam.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:48]:

And finally, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional?

Hyunmin Kim [00:28:52]:

The listeners. Hi. Thank you for listening.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:54]:

Alright, Hyunmin. You've made it to the end of our show. You've done an amazing job telling your 90 day transition story. Thank you so much. If listeners would like to reach you after the episode comes out, how can they find you?

Hyunmin Kim [00:29:05]:

My messages on LinkedIn are always open. I'm always open to connect with people. You guys can just type in Hyunmin Kim at the Courthouse University of Maryland. I should pop up. There's a picture of me smiling awkwardly because that's what I do. Or you can email me at h kim atcocm.com, and I'll get back to you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:21]:

Hyunmin, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Hyunmin Kim [00:29:24]:

Thank you for having me. I had so much fun.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:27]:

This has been an episode of SA voices from the field brought to you by NASPA. This show is always made possible well because of you, our listeners. We are so grateful that you continue to listen to us season after season. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at thesis@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and topic and especially your guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and please like, rate, and review us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us become more visible in the larger podcasting community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:08]:

This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill l Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Guest coordination by diversity and the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

View Details

In this episode of "Student Affairs Voices from the Field," Dr. Kevin Kruger, President of NASPA, discusses his upcoming retirement and the transitions in student affairs. Dr. Kruger reflects on his 30-year journey at NASPA and the reasons behind his decision to step down as president. He emphasizes the importance of retiring on his own terms and while still making meaningful contributions to the field. Dr. Kruger also discusses the challenges and opportunities facing student affairs professionals, including the need to close attainment gaps for underrepresented students and navigate financial pressures on higher education institutions.

He highlights the importance of staying intellectually engaged in retirement and shares his interests in history and leadership. Dr. Kruger also expresses his hope for NASPA's continued role in supporting student affairs professionals and advocating for the value of their work in higher education. He discusses some of the initiatives and partnerships NASPA has undertaken during his tenure, including the Center for First Generation Student Success and efforts to secure external resources to benefit NASPA members.

Dr. Kruger concludes with gratitude for the privilege of working in the field of student affairs and the incredible people and teams he has had the opportunity to work with during his career. He reflects on his love for the work he has done and the positive changes he has witnessed in student affairs over the years.

Dr. Kruger's unwavering dedication to NASPA and his desire to leave a lasting legacy have guided his decision-making process, ensuring a smooth transition for the organization as it enters its next chapter.

Please subscribe to SA Voices from the Field on your favorite podcasting device and share the podcast with other student affairs colleagues!

Transcript

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]:

Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season nine on transitions in Student Affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA. And I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your essay Voices from the Field, host today on SA Voices, it's truly my pleasure to welcome back Dr. Kevin Krueger, president of NASPA, to this season of Transitions. We've introduced Kevin a couple of times before. He's our only three peak guest on the podcast, so I'm not going to read his bio again, but just know that this is probably the last time we're going to have Dr. Kruger on the podcast as he has announced his own major transition. I really hope you enjoyed this episode, Kevin. We're so glad to have you back on SA Voices.

Dr. Kevin Kruger [00:00:50]:

I'm super thrilled to be here, and I understand I'm the only person so far who has had three podcasts with you all. So it's exciting to be doing my number third podcast.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:00]:

Yes, you are the only three-pete, so far in the history of the show. There's a couple two Peters that we've got, but we're so glad to have you on for the season on Transitions. And I think this was actually a really apt theme given everything that's going on for you personally and for NASPA. So for those who have not yet read their NASPA email, kevin has announced a really, really big transition, which is coming very soon. And Kevin, do you want to tell us what that is?

Dr. Kevin Kruger [00:01:24]:

Yeah, sure. So I've made the decision to step down in my role as President of NASPA. There's some sort of timing around that that made sense for me. My contract ends this March of 24, and June 30 of 24 will be my 30 year anniversary of working at NASPA. So it made sense to lots of different personal ways as well as some professional ways to use that as an opportunity to open up a transition for NASPA. So me being here for 30 years and being serving as president for the last twelve, I think, creates a really unique opportunity for some new leadership of a great organization like NASPA that is a huge transition. And some of this is personal. Right. I've had a philosophy about my career for a long time and talking to people who have retired before me. And not to be kind of cute or clever about it, but I wanted to retire on my terms and when I thought I was doing my best work, when I was declining. Because there's a natural cognitive decline that occurs when you age. And so it was important to me to kind of do this in a time when I was still doing what I think is my best work and not to do it at a time when people are wondering, like, when is he going to go? Isn't it time. So that was important to me. So I've given a lot of thought to this over the last several years about what the best time was. And to be honest, I might have done it a little earlier, but the Pandemic, of course, created some serious organizational challenges for every association and business in the world. And so it was also important to me that I leave NASPA in the best possible financial position coming out of the Pandemic. And so I've been spending the last three years with my team trying to find out what the new kind of normal is for NASPA as an organization in terms of membership and programs and relationships with outside entities. And I feel like at this point, in a pretty good place, we've come out of the Pandemic in a very, very strong position. And so I feel like I'm able to hand off this organization to someone else who have a new vision in not having to worry about finance and organizational structure in the early goings of their term.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:14]:

That's a gift.

Dr. Kevin Kruger [00:03:15]:

Yeah. I've thought a lot about sort of legacy and what's next. And Gwen was executive director. A lot of folks who knew Gwen and were around Gwen talked about Gwen being the right person at the right time when she came in and what she brought to NASPA. And I think in some ways I think of myself in the sort of same place. My strengths played very well to the opportunities that were presented when I came into NASPA as the President. And I think while I could continue to do that work, I think it's a great time for someone else to put their brand of leadership and vision on this great association and great profession. We've gone through a lot of transition over the time I've been here in twelve years. I mean, here's just a couple of markers. When I started as president, I think we had about 17 staff. We now have 95 staff. And that's in twelve years. That's a tremendous amount of growth. That's due to lots of different things. But clearly, I think my tenure at NASPE as the President will be a period of taking advantage of the opportunities that student affairs had, which is to expand its portfolio and its influence on campus. In a lot of ways, NASPE has been alongside the field in that way. And so I think that the next phase of NASA may not have that same kind of growth but will build off of where we are right now today as a profession and the challenges that we're facing. Right. So I think that's important as well. Last thing I would say is that I'm very cognizant of the fact that I have one of the best jobs in higher education and it's an enormous privilege to have that. And I also feel like it's such a good job that someone else should have a chance to do it. And so if I would work into my 70s, which people do yeah. I would just not create that opportunity for someone else to have their shot at this kind of really incredible job and opportunity. And I'll say something else that sort of doesn't preclude anybody from applying for this job. And by the way, I'm not involved in the search at all, nor should I be. But I think student affairs as one of the most, if not the most diverse sectors of the higher education world or the academy, I think that I have been able to lead with some integrity as a white male in this space. But I think that we need the next leader should represent who the field is demographically in a more significant way. And so I think it's time for a woman or a person of color or a woman of color to lead NASPA because I think that's important that we reflect who our field is. And the times have changed. And so I think that that is I really want to open up the opportunities for all kinds of new leadership that can come into NASPA. And so I give a lot of thought to that as well. As a person with enormous privilege as a white man who has had great opportunities that have come my way, I think it's time to step aside and let new leadership come into the space.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:42]:

That's a lot of intentionality behind the why retire and why now? Questions. I'm wondering if you have advice for others who are considering that type of transition on how to identify that time that's not necessarily financially motivated. And I understand that that is probably the number one factor in determining when someone can successfully retire is that hopeful number or magic number, whatever they call it. The rule of 24, I think. Rule of 25 in your bank account. And that feels very unattainable to me. And I know a lot of other student affairs professionals, but let's pretend the financial piece is not in the picture. What are those factors that really led you to this space?

Dr. Kevin Kruger [00:06:17]:

Yeah, I think for me, this kind of job is all encompassing. It's a seven days a week. It's not 24 hours. But I mean, you're never not on this job. I'll give you a quick anecdote. We were I was on vacation and with my wife, something big happened in the United States. It was a terrible incident and had a racially motivated but it wasn't a higher ed incident. And so I knew that right away that I had to mark to my team and we were going to say something to our members about this incident. And in the middle of my vacation and my wife, who was not a higher ed person, she's in the sports broadcasting business, she was like, Why are we even commenting? And this has nothing to do with higher ed. I'm like, Because it matters to our students. It matters to the people in our field, and it doesn't matter that I'm on vacation. This is what you do. So my point of the story is that there's an exhaustion that just occurs when you're in a senior leadership role like this. That is part of the reason I've thought about retired hiring, because I just came back from a trip overseas, which is great, but I spend the first two, 3 hours of every day, even on vacation online doing work, because that's the nature of this job. And anybody in these kind of jobs does this. I'm not the only person that does this. Vice President affairs do this. AVPs do this. Directors do this. Lots of people do this. But after doing it for so long, I feel like it's time to step away and do something else. I'm also very thoughtful about this notion of passages, and your theme about transitions fits for me. It's a time in my life when I want to spend more time doing things that are personally renewing and a little less on the professional side. But I will tell you, the dilemma is we know that from people who study aging and people who are in this life transition space, that happiness is also tied to staying intellectually engaged. How do you step away from this but still do something that has meaning and that still engages me professionally and where I can also still give back where I have something to offer. So I've spent the last five, six years not just thinking about where I want to retire and in what place I want to retire and what my hobbies might be. But I've spent time actually literally interviewing people I know who have retired and asking them, what worked? What's working? What do you wish you had done more of? And lots of different approaches that people have had at this transition. So I was just given a lot of thought to basically have been a student of retirement. Yeah, the money part, of course, is a piece of it, but for me, it's more about what is the next phase of your life? What do you want it to look like? And I remember listening to someone was talking about retirement since maybe seven or eight years ago, and they were saying, when they ask people, Retire, what are you going to do? And they say, Well, I want to travel. And they would press a little further and say, well, how many trips are you going to take in that year? I'm like, maybe one or two trips. All right, 52 weeks. Let's just say you take two, two week vacations. What are you going to do for the other 48? Eight weeks? And I think that's an important thing to think about, right? Because yeah, sure. Do I want to travel? Of course. I love traveling. I have the privilege to have some resources to allow me to travel. But what am I going to do when I'm not traveling. So you have to think about a life that has meaning and richness to it, that goes beyond just going to London or Ireland for a two week vacation. And that's what I've given a lot of thought to. So where does that meaning come and what is it, and how do I want to spend my know? So I will be somebody, I'll tell you sort of maybe this is a question you might have asked me, but I'll tell you, I'm going to be someone who won't disappear. So I'm going to try to find the right space between giving the person who takes the presidency of NASPA who has that job, all of the space they need to do the job without me sitting near them. But for me also to use over 45 years of higher education experience to offer some perspectives that I have about the work and about the field without the constraints, perhaps, of the position of president. I mean, I can say things post presidency that I can't say in the presidency. So I'm kind of looking forward to maybe exercising my voice a little bit in ways that are not in the way of NASPA or not in the way of the new president, but sort of might have some value for the folks that I know in the field who are doing the work. So that's something I've given a lot of thought to, but I don't want another full time job. I've had people come to me and say, well, do you want to run this organization or you want to do this? No, I already have a great job, a great full time job. I'm not looking for another one. But I think it is important for me to find some spaces where I can stay intellectually engaged. I can't imagine a life where I don't think about higher education or I don't think about the work and think about how we can continue to serve our students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:18]:

I think the intellectually engaged component is so critical. I will wish my father a happy birthday. We're recording on his birthday today, and he is deep into his retirement life as well. And one of the things that both he and my mom talk about is that retirement doesn't mean you're done. It means that you get the freedom to do what you want to do. And they take classes at the university nearby. They go to lectures at their local art museum. They're huge theater buffs. They're deeply intellectually curious readers, and that intellectual engagement. They're also in very excellent physical health. But for the ages that they are, they don't look or act like people typically would expect them to at those ages. And I think that is truly because of that ongoing intellectual curiosity and also staying socially engaged and not just sitting around existing. You're working to live in a different way. I totally get that.

Dr. Kevin Kruger [00:11:07]:

Yeah. Health and money are the two big variables about retirement, some of which you have control over, some of which you don't. Right. So there's a gift if you're physically healthy. So far I am. But this notion of there's actually an organization that calls it so this is not my language, but of your encore career of what are you going to do? Post the work that you have now, where making money isn't necessarily the most important thing. Right. So when I talk to the people I know who are still engaged, some of whom you know, who are retired in the field but are still doing work, they're doing it because the love of the work rather than the necessity of the work, and they're not in the kind of the drive that we would necessarily have. So I think that gives you some opportunities to be creative and innovative in the way you want to live your life.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:47]:

So I think I'm hearing blogger in your future.

Dr. Kevin Kruger [00:11:50]:

No, not blogger. I do think I want to write, though. I enjoy writing. I've always been a writer. This job has forced me to write in certain kinds of ways. But I think I'll think about I haven't quite figured out where and how in what way, but maybe I shouldn't say no blogger, but I mean, that's some kind of writing that would allow me to reflect on what's happening in higher education from a different seat. So I think that's part of it and some of it maybe not necessarily outward facing, might be just more inward facing. So I've always been intellectually curious. You talked about your parents being intellectual, and I've always been that way. And many of the people listening to this well, have heard me speak before. So you know that I spend a couple of hours every day reading. And right now I read mostly higher ed stuff. I mean, that's just the nature of it. But I have a lot of intellectual curiosity about other things in our world. Higher education is one of them. But when I go into a bookstore, which is kind of anachronistic theme right now, but Barnes and Noble still exists, when I go in Go bookstore, I'm just struck by how much stuff I want to read. I just walk through the nonfiction section. I'm like, I want to know more about that. I'd love to know more about that. I'd love to know more about that. And I think that that will be part of my journey, will be also be just continuing my lifelong education about lots of things that want to know more about. And some of that has nothing to do with higher education. So I think one of the things I'm most excited about is being able to explore some of my own intellectual interests that aren't higher ed oriented, where now I don't have the time to do that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:06]:

Do you mind sharing what those are.

Dr. Kevin Kruger [00:13:07]:

Strong ones for me. I was a European history major in college. So history has always been a part of my kind of curiosity. And so I'm very, very drawn to the lessons that we can learn from understanding history, and particularly sort of in geopolitical sense. So as we think about where our world is today, a lot of that has roots in history. And so there's more of that kind of analysis that I'm interested in understanding just as I try to make sense of this complicated world we live in. So that's one of them, for sure. The other one is my second job in the field was running the leadership program at the University of Maryland. And I don't know how that came about. I kind of stumbled into it to some degree. But I understood very quickly that I had a really huge interest in understanding how people I've been very introspective about myself, my own leadership style over the years. And so I'm fascinated with reading about how people are successful in organizations. And so that's another place where I've spent some time as well thinking about.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:58]:

All of the things you're excited about for the future in your own world, in your own life. You also mentioned kind of excitement for the field as well. So I'm just wondering if you have any future wishes for where NASA will go next.

Dr. Kevin Kruger [00:14:10]:

Well, I think that student affairs is at a little bit of a nexus right now. So I think post pandemic, there's elements of the work that we do that have been elevated in some important ways. And then I think, as we think about some of the really serious challenges that institutions face around addressing what I consider to be the most important priority for higher education, and that is, how do we close attainment gaps for low income students, first generation students, students of color in particular, black students, Latinx students, some portions of the API community, indigenous students. These things have been around for decades, these attainment gaps. And there seems to be a lot of energy in higher ed now about addressing some of these issues. We call it now student success. And I think student affairs is at the table for that conversation with its economic colleagues. I think that's great. So I see a lot of really high priority areas where student affairs and the value of his work is recognized. At the same time, the financial pressures facing higher education are enormous and financial challenges are coming to almost every institution in the country, and some of that will affect student affairs. So how do we do our best? Work is work that is so important for our society at a time when financial structures are being challenged. I'll give an example without naming the institution. So this institution, maybe seven or eight years ago, understanding this sort of challenge around attainment issues and student success created a Student success center and hired a team of student success coaches. It's a strategy that works, has been proven to work very effectively, particularly with some of these populations that I'm talking about. That particular institution is one that's in a part of the country that's experiencing enrollment challenges and demographic challenges. And so they had some budget challenges and one of the first moves they made was to fire almost all those student success coaches. It probably seemed like it was a more recent ad. They didn't want to cut an academic program. The challenge that college presidents and boards are facing today. But that very decision works against the goals that the institutions have about increasing enrollment for low income, first gen students of color. And so I think that these are the kind of really tough decisions that institutions have to make. And sometimes student affairs is going to be negatively affected by that. And so when I get in front of an audience of student affairs folks, I talk about this sort of dual challenge, the work and the money, the resources. And everybody's asked the same question, well, how do we do this? How do we do this? So NASPA, this is a long answer to a short question. So I think NASPA has to be part of helping institutions and student affairs professionals guide them through how you can maneuver these dual challenges. It's not easy, right? And I think we need examples of institutions have done this effectively and how they have reorganized or reoriented the resources to address some of these challenges and still do the good work where they've had to make tough decisions about doing a little less of this and a little bit more of that. And so I think NASPA has always been sort of shoulder to shoulder with our field in helping the field sort out how to address some of these challenges. And there's no simple answer to this, but I can think of examples. I was at a program that we ran summer before last. And so I have said this in some of my speeches. I've said that student affairs is going to have to make the difficult choice to move resources to the students who need us the most and away from students who don't need us as much. Okay? So there are students who are highly privileged economically and perhaps for other reasons as well that simply don't need almost any support in their journey through college and they will thrive. And there are others who have enormous barriers facing their progress. So higher education, which was built on serving the elite, we've always been sort of tilted sometimes to serving population of students, sometimes who don't actually need the services we're in, the support we're providing, can we shift that to a place where we're providing more resources for students who need us more? Simple thing to say. So at this meeting, one vice president of student affairs said, we did this. And they talked about the things that they did to make that difficult change. And this person shared some of those examples. And then at the break, after I was done with this particular session, it was like a crowd gathered around this vice president who's like, tell us how you did this. That's the NASPA story. Okay, so the NASPA story is, how do we find these examples and help others think about strategies to get there? So that's what I hope for NASPA. And I think that to some extent, I think that I would also say that the future for NASPA and NASPA's role is the same one that existed for my tenure here. And that is that the work that we do with students, I think is enormously important and sometimes isn't valued in the same way by the academy. And so I have spent twelve years getting in front of presidents, chief business officers, admissions officers, procurement officers, facilities people. I've been on a tour of higher education to try to lift the understanding of the value of what we do, not for our own sake, but because I believe it's important, because I believe it makes a difference. And I believe that the best institutions have figured out a way to marry this curricular academic world with a rich, out of class, cocurricular, whatever you want to call it, world. And that those institutions have created that secret sauce that allows students to thrive. And I think sometimes people just don't understand what we do, and it seems like wasted resources. So I think the next phase and aspect is a continuation of taking advantage of the megaphone that we have to talk about why what we do is important, why it exists, and what makes this so unique that it's worth investing in the resources.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:26]:

I'd like to take a moment to talk about legacy a little bit. And I'm just wondering if there's anything in your tenure at NASPA and you came up from a mid level position into the presidency over a period of time, but anything in particular that you're extremely proud of or a program or service or an idea that you were on the team of leading that you feel like has really changed the profession positively?

Dr. Kevin Kruger [00:19:47]:

First of all, and I don't say this casually, my legacy is the profession's legacy. It's the team that I've worked with. I've been gifted to work with unbelievably talented people at NASPA and still do. So I think I never have thought about it as my legacy as much as helping student affairs as a field move in directions that are in the best interest of serving our students. So I can give you a couple of examples. I think I'm enormously proud of the work that we're doing with the center for First Generation Student Success, working with over 300 institutions now to lift up first generation status and student as an asset for campuses and how we can help campuses think about their policies and their programs and the way they support students in order to increase attainment for those for first generation students. A highly intersectional population, right? Of we're disproportionately low income and of color. It's personal for me. I was a first generation student myself, and so obviously I'm a long ways away from those challenges with the enormous privilege I have in my life. But I can speak to those issues and I know that that's important for us to pay attention to. Enormously proud of the work we've done in lifting up health, safety and well being initiatives on college campuses over the last ten years. Something that now is sort of a given in our conversation about the work that we do about the work we do around well being and mental health and sexual violence and a variety of other components. But that wasn't necessarily a given 15 years ago. And so I think the work that our team has done in the health safety wellbeing space is enormously important, not just for helping student affairs folks, but also for guiding the academy forward in those areas. I think that those are two that really stand out. I think when I became president, I said to my team at the time, if the educational philanthropic community doesn't want to fund the work that we are about in student affairs, that says a lot about how the world views student affairs. And so part of my priority also has been to engage the educational philanthropic community in important ways to support initiatives that are serving students through the work we do in student success and student affairs. And we've been successful at that. We are one of the three coordinators of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation's post secondary education initiatives. We coordinate the advising reform movement in higher education through the Gates Foundation. We've done incredible work with Alumina foundation. Strada Cresky. I mean, there's so many folks who are interested in funding the work that we do to serve our campuses and our students. And I think that is also something I'm extremely proud of. In the depth of the pandemic, everybody had to shift to online work, right? We all did that immediately and right away, myself and our team was like, well, I wonder who's doing it the best? What are some really good examples of how we can lift up examples of how campuses have pivoted so quickly to provide outstanding service and support to students? And so we went to the Gates Foundation, said, hey, we have this idea, would you be willing to fund it? Yes. And so that borne this sort of project where we actually gave money to campuses, to twelve campuses who were doing exemplary work in providing online student services. But that comes about through a relationship you can have with the educational philanthropic community. And so that's something I'm really proud of. And our team has been very successful in bringing in resources, external resources, which has also. As an aside, allowed us, for example, to not raise individual membership dues for almost ten years. Something that we don't really talk a lot about, but we kept our membership dues kind of flat. And we were able to do that because we're able to bring external resources to the organization, which allowed us to serve our members in as cost effective ways as possible. Registration fees for conferences. We're probably, if you list 20 organizations at the bottom in terms of registration fees, they're still high. But we've been able to do that because we have been successful in seeking external resources. So I think those are some things that I think provide some real support going forward. Another thing I'd mention, though, is NASPA has been a very entrepreneurial organization. The Placement Exchange is a good example of that, which now is virtual. But at the time when we partnered with a Kuoi in that we created a new vision for how we can bring together multiple associations together. The idea of hiring the best possible people in our field, that was kind of a revolutionary idea at the time. Now everybody sort of knows about the Placement Exchange. That's something like that. We saw opportunities to serve populations that we hadn't been serving. So, for example, we have continued with a partnership. Initially, from the University of Louisville, we created the Military Connected Student Conference, now the only place in higher education where people who work with veterans and military connected families and military connected students can come together to talk about how we can serve that population. So I think that the legacy is seeing places where there have been needs and then trying to create programs and resources and research and opportunities to serve those needs in ways that perhaps weren't around maybe ten or 15 years ago.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:15]:

Any final thoughts for the NASPA community on this transition?

Dr. Kevin Kruger [00:24:19]:

Well, it's not a thought. It's really gratitude. I mean, I have been unbelievably privileged to work in this field. I loved the work I did on campus, and I have loved the work I did at NASPA. And part of what I love about NASPA is really two things. One is I'm going to say three, the belief in what we do, amazing people that I've gotten to meet over the last twelve years, just for sure. And then the incredible team of people that work at NASPA who are committed to this work and who wake up every day thinking about how we can serve our members and serve our students. So I have a lot of gratitude about just what an incredible opportunity that has been for me personally. And to have had a front row seat on the evolution of student affairs over the last 30 years. We're not what we were 30 years ago, and we're not where we were ten years ago. And so to be in this chair has been enormously privileged. And so I have enjoyed literally every single day I've come to work. Just leave you with that thought. I mean, very few people have a job where they come to work every day, and they love what they do every single day. And I've had that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:18]:

It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:24]:

Welcome back to the NASPA World. Really excited to be able to talk to you again today. There is a ton of things happening this fall that I know I want to make sure that all of you have the access to taking advantage of and you don't miss out on. One of the things that's coming up here in January of 2024 is the 2024 NASPA Symposium on Military Connected Students. This is an annual event, and in this event, it is running from January 30 to February 1 in Louisville, Kentucky. The Call for Programs deadline for this great event has been extended, and you have now until October 2 to be able to put in a proposal. You can showcase your expertise, research innovative ideas to people that are completely supportive of military connected students. So whether you have a comprehensive program, insightful research findings, or best practice to share, we definitely want to hear from you and have you submit a program for this amazing conference. If you don't have a program that you want to submit, you can also be a reviewer of the programs. And if you'd want to be a reviewer for the program, again, the deadline is October 2 as well. And you did get an email about this from NASPA, but if you didn't, you can also go to the 2024 NASPA Symposium on Military Connected Students website. On the NASPA website under events to be able to get more information. It's a brand new term, and that means that all of us have different goals, things that we're doing professionally, personally, to be able to extend our own learning as well as doing more to be able to connect with our students. One of the things that I always encourage people to think about is your own professional development. And one way to be able to grow and learn is through books. So this is a great time of year to be able to go to the NASPA Bookstore and be able to discover or rediscover the joy of reading. And as a special treat, the NASPA Bookstore is providing NASPA members with a remarkable 30% discount on their catalog of books spanning various subjects. So whether you're a devoted reader, an inquisitive learner, or searching for the perfect gift to a colleague, the NASPA Book Collection has something for everyone. So don't miss out. Use promo code Fall 23 at checkout. And that's all one word, Fall 23, to unlock this exclusive offer and enrich your reading experience. Another conference that's coming up in December, december 7 through the 9th in Washington, DC, is the 2023 NASPA Racial Equity and Social Change Conference. This was formally known as the Multicultural Institute. The NASPA Racial Equity and Social Change conference fosters dialogue on Equitable campuses. The shift to a racial equity framework amplifies the focus on dismantling racialized systems for broad benefit. This inaugural conference emphasizes content centered on promoting racial equity, equity leadership, institutionalizing justice and equity through organizational change, as well as creating a climate of care for staff and students. The program looks to have amazing program, amazing sessions, but one of the featured speakers that was just announced is Bettina Love, who is the William F. Russell professor at Teachers College of Columbia University. She's also a best selling author of We Want to Do More Than Survive in 2020, and the Kennedy Center in 2022 named her one of the next 50 leaders making the world more inspired, inclusive, and compassionate. Registration for the conference has an early registration deadline of October 6. So if you're ready to make plans to come to Washington, DC. For this upcoming conference in December, you definitely want to take advantage of that early deadline and jump in right away. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit, where do you want to give back? Each week. We're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in. That knowledge, community. I see myself doing something like that or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:04]:

Chris, it's always great to hear from you on what's going on in and around NASPA. Kevin, we have reached our lightning round, and as our only three Pete guests, we have completely unique lightning round questions for you that our audience has never heard. So you're in for a ride.

Dr. Kevin Kruger [00:31:18]:

You ready? Ready.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:20]:

All right. Question number one the album or song you can listen to on repeat forever?

Dr. Kevin Kruger [00:31:25]:

Oh, wow. Ramble on by Led Zeppelin.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:28]:

Number two, what was your graduate degree or degrees in and did you use it in your job?

Dr. Kevin Kruger [00:31:34]:

I'm laughing because my graduate degree was in counseling and personnel services, basically a master's in PhD in Higher Ed student affairs. And yes, I have used it. I use it every day.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:44]:

Number three, your guilty pleasure book series.

Dr. Kevin Kruger [00:31:47]:

I love reading mysteries, so Harlan Cobin would be the one I would pull out. I've read every single one of his books.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:53]:

Number four, if someone visits your city, Washington, DC. What is the top tourist destination they have to see?

Dr. Kevin Kruger [00:31:59]:

The Madagascar cockroach exhibit in the Natural history museum.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:03]:

Number five, the best advice someone ever gave you?

Dr. Kevin Kruger [00:32:05]:

Gene Ward, Director of Housing at Southern Methodist University in 1982, when I was getting ready to leave go from being an area coordinator, and I applied for a job at the University of Maryland, and he said, I was really worried about that, I hadn't finished my work and I had more to do. And he said, Kevin, stick your finger in a glass of water and then pull it out and you see there's no hole left, is there? He said, Organizations will always adapt to you moving on. And that's how I feel today. That's perfect advice for the mind. NASPA, I will leave and ask will continue to live and thrive.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:31]:

Number six, any new podcast recommendations?

Dr. Kevin Kruger [00:32:34]:

Yeah, I just on my ride to North Carolina, listened to Scamanda, which is this staggering story about a woman who raised all this money going through her journey with cancer, and it turns out she never had cancer. It was just amazing.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:48]:

Oh, I'm adding that one immediately. And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Kevin Kruger [00:32:55]:

This is so many people that I would shout out to, but I have to really kind of come back to the people that have supported me in my life. My wife, Lisa Hansen, who was beside me through this entire journey of being national president. We started dating, actually, when I applied for the job, so she's been here with me the whole time and in some ways, in a weird way, my kids. My daughter just graduated from the University of Maryland and is working, and my son graduated in the Pandemic. And so I've had them both as a proud father, but also as sort of watching their journey through college in real time. And I think that's helped me be more effective in the work that I do.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:29]:

Well, Kevin, it's always a pleasure to have you on the show. Since you are going to be with NASPA just a little while longer, what's the best way for folks to get a hold of you?

Dr. Kevin Kruger [00:33:36]:

So you can always go to the website and find my email address, but I'll tell you what it is. It's KKR Uger Kruger@naspa.org. I answer every email personally, so if somebody finds anything I had to say here. Interesting. I want to expand on it. I'd love to have a dialogue with you about it. So just write me a note. It's easy to find me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:52]:

Well, thank you so much for your service to the profession and to NASPA over the years. And of course, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Dr. Kevin Kruger [00:33:58]:

It's been great being with you. Jill, thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:01]:

This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, brought to you by NASPA. This show is always made possible because of you, our listeners. We are so grateful that you continue to listen to us season after season. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Craighton. We welcome your feedback and topic and especially your guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show. And please, like, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill L. Creighton Seth Me produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Guest coordination by Lu Yongru. Special thanks to Duke Kunshan University and the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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Welcome back to SA Voices From the Field. In this episode, titled "Discovering Resilience: Clarissa Mae Calimbas' Story of Professional Transformation," we are joined by Clarissa Mae Calimbas, Assistant Director for Student Organizations at San Jose State University. Clarissa Mae takes us on a journey through her professional career, from her early days as a transfer student to her current role overseeing 350 student organizations. She shares her experiences of being terminated from her first professional position during the height of the pandemic, and how she found the strength to rebuild her professional confidence.

Through her story, Clarissa Mae reveals the importance of finding the right fit and staying true to one's values, even in the face of uncertainty. We also delve into the topic of transitions in Student Affairs, exploring the challenges faced by professionals and the various opportunities for growth and development.

Join us as we dive deep into Clarissa Mae's inspiring journey and gain valuable insights into navigating transitions, building resilience, and finding one's voice in the world of Student Affairs.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]:

Welcome back to a new episode of SA voices where our Transitions guest today is Clarissa Mae Calimbas. Clarissa Mae is the assistant director for student organizations at San Jose State University, or SJSU. In her role, she oversees the recognition and compliance processes of 350 plus recognized student organizations. She did her undergrad at SJSU, where she majored in Child and Adolescent development and completed her master's in Educational leadership at Old Dominion University. Clarissa Mae is also a current first year doctoral student studying Educational Leadership at SJSU. Outside of work, Clarissa Mae enjoys going to Orange Theory Fitness and learning how to DJ. You can connect with her on Linkedin. You can find her on Twitter @_Clarissamae or on Instagram @_Clarissamae. Clarissa, welcome to the show.

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:01:14]:

Hi.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:15]:

How's it going for our listeners? Clarissa and I met, I think, two annual conferences ago, maybe two or three annual conferences ago now when we were doing some sort of I think it was a scavenger hunt for discord. Does that sound right?

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:01:27]:

Yeah, it was like a discord group.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:29]:

And I ended up finding you in person at the Apikc Social.

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:01:33]:

Yes. Now I'm starting to remember. Yeah, that tracks.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:35]:

We're glad to have you today to talk about your transitions in higher education. We always like to kick off our episodes by asking our guests how they got to their current seat.

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:01:44]:

That is such a good question. I've been really reflecting on this because this academic year is my fifth year as a professional, and I also currently work at my alma mater. So it's been exactly ten years since I first attended my current institution that I work at. How did I get there? I think I first came in as a transfer student. Didn't really like, there wasn't much for transfer students to get involved, and I kind of put myself out there because all my friends were out there, and then people took notice and were like, hey, you're good at this. You should do this field of student affairs. And they always told me, if you're going to go do this, you have to go away before you come back. And so I went to grad school across the country before coming back to my home state of California, worked at a couple institutions. Before I came into my current position, I've been in an interim role, and then I came back as a coordinator, and then just this past May, actually, last week was three months into my new role as an assistant director.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:49]:

Congratulations. That's a major, major thing to especially get that interim title taken off it's.

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:02:54]:

Been surreal to kind of been in two interim roles before coming back and being able to permanently be an employee.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:00]:

That interim space is one of the reasons I'm really excited to talk to you about your transitions on the show for this season. I think that interim space for people who have never been in it is a little bit nebulous. And so I'm wondering if you can talk about why you decided to take an interim position, as well as what it's like to transition into a space that, you know, is a bit ephemeral.

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:03:21]:

Yeah. So I had actually done my first interim appointment in 2017, and it was the first it was kind of my first paraprofessional job at the time. They had offered it to me as a way to prepare me before I went off to graduate school, and that is exactly what it did for me. And I finished my grad program, came back to my home state, worked at other institutions, and in 2021, I was actually terminated from my first position as a professional. And it was tough because it was like, at the peak of COVID and I wasn't sure if I was going to come back into student affairs. And so I took a job working as a sales associate at Orange Theory Fitness, where I would sell memberships and help set up the equipment for the coaches and whatnot. And another position at my current institution had opened up. A search had failed, so they had to move people around, and there was an opening, and they reached out to me because they knew, of course, it got terminated. She's searching, she's grinding it out. And they reached out to me and had offered me an interim appointment. And I work at one of the California state universities, so I work at one of the 23 campuses. When you're appointed an interim role, it's anywhere between four to six months. And I had just started at Orange Theory. I think I was like one or two weeks in when they called and were like, hey, we want you to come work for us. And I had actually interviewed for a job there and didn't get moved on as a final candidate. So for me, I had some animosity, but I was like, I have nothing to lose at this point. I needed the insurance, I needed the benefits, and it was a place that I was so familiar with, and I felt safe enough to kind of rebuild my confidence as a professional. And so I took the job, and I was also applying to other institutions for a permanent role. And so once I had landed a permanent role at another institution, I ended my interim appointment, and I worked at this other school for six months. And once they opened up the role for my first permanent position at the institution I'm at, I jumped at the opportunity to apply. So I was with institution B for six months. And then I moved back to Institution A, which is the institution I'm at now. And I was also told, hey, you've applied for this job you've interviewed. You deserve to be here. And I had done the work before and that was kind of like that common, like, we want you and I want you. So to be in that interim space is really scary because it's like for me, I felt like I was on a time crunch to apply, apply. But also I think for me it was a scary time, right. Because it's like you're not guaranteed permanency. You're not guaranteed the idea of, oh, that safety net of having a permanent job. And so being in that unknown professionally is just really scary. When your livelihood is on the line.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:10]:

You said something really important and very real for American student affairs professionals, which is when you don't have a job, you may not have health insurance. And that puts an interesting crunch on a job search that doesn't exist for professionals in many, many other parts of the world. So I think that puts a lot of pressure on these types of transitions, more so than you might see other places. So I actually want to back up a little bit to the moment where you started to figure out how are you going to get on your feet after that first job came to an end and you ended up in a sales associate position. So just not necessarily aligned with your training and your master's degree and things like that. So how did you make the determination that sales was the place that you wanted to get on your feet?

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:06:51]:

Yeah, so I was let go in early May and I used all of June. I wasn't going to apply. I was just going to really sit and process and also going back to the whole thing about health and the benefits. I was told your benefits were going to end like that end of the month in May. So I took advantage and booked all my appointments to make sure that I was going to use it until I was covered that whole like two or three months. When I didn't have healthcare benefits or insurance, I knew I could go into sales. And I chose Orange Theory specifically because I was a member of the studio. And so I kind of had always had so much respect for the people that worked at the front desk. I've had a lot of respect for some of the coaches. Some of the coaches were actually student affairs professionals. Like this was their side hustle. And I'd always joked around like, hey, I want to be a coach one day. Maybe this will be my side hustle. I'm currently in a doctoral program, so this Orange Theory side hustle for me is after the doctorate. But I knew I wanted to go into Sales because I knew the money was kind of there. I knew we were going to be paid on commission and it was biweekly, so I knew I would have some sort of security, like financial security and financial stability coming through until I could get fully on my feet and figure out everything else.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:11]:

So then you decided, okay, I'm going to head back into the land of higher education. Thought process did you go that? Yes, you were going to make that decision?

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:08:21]:

I wasn't sure if I was going to go back into higher ed. I just want to give a shout out to everyone in Apikc that who knew what was going on to me at the time. They were sending me job postings. They knew I was location bound. They were helping me with my resume, all the interview prep. As much as I thought my heart wasn't in it anymore, other people could see that I was really meant to be in the profession and I'm really meant to be in the field. And I think if I didn't have that community and that network, I for sure would have been out of the field by now. So I think it's so important when you're going through transitions, whether it's personal or professional, to really have that network and have that community of people that just hold you accountable.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:04]:

And so when you're thinking about the things that mentorship did for you and your support in this process, what are some of the best pieces of advice you got from mentors?

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:09:13]:

The best piece of advice that I had got from a mentor was that and I learned this the hard way, it was that my first job was not going to be my dream job. And I think I had had these rose colored glasses in the time that I was in that first position where I was like, oh my God, I'm actually a student affairs professional. It's all great and whatnot, and when that plug gets pulled, suddenly it's a wake up call. And I realized once someone pointed it out to me was I had seen it as a dream job, but that wasn't the case based on how I was being treated, but also just how much I was putting in and not really seeing the payoff there. I think one of my favorite pieces of advice was that all of this happening to me was just building character in the end. It's not the end for me, but I think had I gone through this later on in my life, I probably would have left the field and not looked back. And I think to be able to go through this so early in my professional career, like first job, I think it's built that grit and resiliency that they don't really teach you in grad programs. And that's also the first time where I really learned what Fit meant and how important and how it's okay to really put into perspective what is important to you, like what are your values and whatnot? Because I felt like I lost so much of my values and what mattered to me in that first position, just trying to fit in and trying to be the perfect employee that in the end it didn't work out and who ultimately lost it was me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:45]:

And I always like to be careful about the word fit because how it can be weaponized to marginalize people. But what I'm hearing you say is there was a values misalignment between what you were hoping to do and what the institution maybe was looking for.

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:10:59]:

Yes, that was something hard to sit with. And I think one of the earliest red flags for me was watching the other color of people leave on my team. They all had left within the first 88 days of me starting in this role. And it's so easy to count because we were on a 90 day probation when you first get hired. And so every month since I had started in that role, someone had always left and it was always someone who was of color. And so when you're the only person of color and a predominantly white team working at a very marginalized serving institution, I felt like I had the worries of my students on my backs and trying to carry that and bring it to the table and advocate for them was tough.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:45]:

Then we are really talking about fit in that kind of coded, pushing out marginalized populations kind of way. And I think that's something that we need to remain conscious of in student affairs and really in all professions on how that can be used as a weaponized tool to further marginalize those who already struggle systemically to be included. So you've then decided that, yes, you are going to employ that grit for yourself and you're going to try again, you're going to reenter the field. You did this interim role, you took a second position after that. So how did you take that grit that you've self described as well as the things that you process to say yes to coming back into student affairs?

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:12:28]:

That was such a good question. I think after processing everything and the grit and that resilience, I think it's knowing that this is my own experience and no one has the same experience as me and the same thought process and being able to take that and bring it with me wherever I go. I used to be so ashamed to talk about what had happened to me and now I'm not afraid to speak up about it and talk about it and lead into how it's made me into a better professional now. It's helped me better understand every different things and different issues students go through. I feel like I came back with a thicker skin, which I think is so important to have in this field. And I think now coming back and feeling like I'm a little stronger, and I'm a little more. I have wisdom, and my opinions and my thoughts really matter. It's given me the opportunity to speak up more. I used to be so scared to speak up. I used to be so scared to talk about my ideas. But I think the experience of all these transitions and all of these experiences, good and bad, has just kind of made me into the person that I am now, where I'm a little more unapologetic now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:36]:

As a professional, we always need women of color to be less apologetic.

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:13:39]:

Yeah. Period.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:41]:

So as you've grown into your career, now you're sitting in an Assistant Director seat. I believe you went from being a member of your team to being part of the leadership team in your department. Is that right?

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:13:50]:

I started in the office May 2022 as a coordinator, and then in May 2023, I started as the Assistant Director. So they treated it just like a typical search, where it was like the job posted and I applied and interviewed. And it is so hard and so scary to interview in front of your coworkers because they know you and they know your personality. And I think to be able to do that and get over that fear and to also be in this position I've been in this Assistant Director role for three months. And then just full context, our Director has just started last Thursday, so we have a brand new Director. We have an interim Associate Director, and a couple of openings on our team.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:36]:

Tell us about how you prepared to interview with people that you already know and who know you.

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:14:41]:

I think what carried me through in that preparation was I knew what was on the line because the previous role that I was doing, it was a coordinator for Student orgs role, and it's one person that oversees 350 student organizations. It's a lot of compliance work, and I feel like misunderstandings where no one really knows what you're doing. And the easiest way that I explain it to people is that, oh, I just look at spreadsheets and I grade canvas quizzes and I email people, but there's just a lot of behind the scenes that nobody really gets to see. And so I knew personally what my role consisted of as the coordinator, and I knew what the coordinator needs from the Assistant Director. And so I carried that thought process with me as I was preparing for the interview. Preparing for the presentation was like, if there's anyone that knows what this job is going to need, it's going to be me. And being a woman of color, where's the line between being cocky and being actually confident was something that I had struggled with, like preparing for the interview. And also the role that I'm currently in is also brand new. So I'm like the first person, so I feel like there's a lot of weight carried on in terms of, like, I have to perform a certain way. I said I would do XYZ Am I going to be able to do it? I don't have a coordinator underneath me, so I feel like I put a lot of pressure on myself to really be great, but also not let anyone down on my team.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:12]:

And you prevailed, so your strategy was a good one.

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:16:15]:

Yes, and I'm surprised it worked. Why? I think because of just feeling like I'm always misunderstood and no one really kind of understanding my thought process and how I process things. And so I think to be able to articulate it in a way where people actually understood it in this one moment in this presentation that I had to give for my interview, where in my head, I feel like I'm fighting for my life. I will never forget when I came back to work the next day, there was a lot of buzz with the team. I didn't know you could be this confident. I didn't know you can bring it like that. I think a lot of the times people just kind of see me as really laid back and kind of quiet and minding my business. And I think the person they saw in that interview was someone who doesn't really show out that way on a daily basis.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:03]:

And now that you've occupied the role for a couple of months, how has that changed the way you approach your team and the work?

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:17:10]:

It was interesting because they consider it a promotion, which I understand. For me, the way that I approach my work has shifted significantly because I'm also in the doctoral program. So I'm balancing work, I'm balancing school, which is really exciting. But I remember being offered the job, and I was told there's going to be some dynamics that change, and I didn't understand that at the time. Sometimes I feel like I'm excluded from my coworkers. Now they're on the coordinator level and I'm on the assistant director level. And in our office, if you're an assistant director or an associate director or the director, you're considered the leadership team. And I understand that that is part of the process of being a leader. It's hard. I'm such a people person, and so being excluded kind of hurts sometimes. But now I'm beginning to understand that that's okay because I have other besties and other friends and partners across campus who are in the same parallel position as me, where it's like we also are on leadership teams for our offices, and we can't just vent down, and so we just vent across to each other.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:18]:

That's one of the most interesting things about coming into mid level leadership, is that you're a part of many teams, a junior member of some teams, you're a senior member of other teams, you're in the middle of some teams. And that really changes the way that we process and talk about information, I think, either consciously or subconsciously.

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:18:33]:

I think since joining the leadership team at work, I've definitely been a little more conscious about what I share and what I open up to the team in terms of operations or what's going on with other coworkers, just because I now understand that some things are better kept private. Or it's like, I would rather you find out from senior leadership than from me because I'm still brand new.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:57]:

So kind of looking at the culmination of all the transitions you've had over the last couple of years, what would you like to say to past Clarissa when these transitions all began?

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:19:07]:

Oh, my God. I would tell Past Clarissa that everything you're going through, it's not the end of the world. You're going to be okay. Take a deep breath. I feel like, at the time, I thought it was the end of the world. I thought it was the end of my professional reputation, and I thought no one was going to want to hire me because I just had so much trauma. Like, I was carrying that with me professionally. And I think I would tell Past Clarissa, too, that everything you want is on the other side of fear. You just have to be able to get over it, whether that's going to therapy, whether that's just kind of facing it head on. There's good people out there that will always be in your corner and support you. And I know this process of transition and coping and processing, it's not possible to do this all alone. And I'm just so thankful that so many people just had my back and really pushed me to, like, hey, you need to get uncomfortable. You're wasting your own potential by not going after this job, by not coming back into the field.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:10]:

That is such a word. Everything you want is on the other side of fear. Good nugget, Clarissa.

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:20:15]:

Thanks.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:16]:

So let's look at it in the other direction, too. What do you want to tell future Clarissa two years from now Clarissa or three years from now?

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:20:22]:

I would love to tell her to just not stress, and I just say that very candidly because I'm going through a lot of health issues right now, and I know part of it is just all rooted in stress. And I would love to tell future Clarissa, like, hey, you made it through all this. Let's take care of ourselves now. And I think the most exciting thing that I would want to tell my future self is, like, you got everything you want because you worked hard for it, and don't ever let anyone undermine the work that you've put in to.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:53]:

Get to where you are and then thinking about your kind of holistic perspective as well. Is there anything that you would definitely want to repeat in terms of identifying how to transition successfully?

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:21:04]:

I think speaking about it is so important. I used to be so scared and so embarrassed to tell people, hey, I'm going to apply for this job. Or like, hey, I'm thinking about making the jump from this functional area to that functional area because I was so afraid of what people would think about me or think about, like, oh, I don't think you're making the right career choice. And I think if there's anyone that's going to know you best, it's yourself and your instinct and your gut. And I think as much as I say I've had good people that have supported me, a lot of it has also been my instinct. I knew I could do this work. I know that I'm good at this, and I think that's also carried me. So I think from a holistic approach and thinking about all these transitions, I think your instinct carries you through it. I think talking about it too to the people that you know would support you and keep it very candid and honest with you are the ones are the one thing, two things that I could say have helped me in the.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:03]:

Last four or five years and also thinking about this whole process. Is there anything you wished you would have done differently? You mentioned talking about it, but anything else?

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:22:10]:

I think what I wish I could have done differently, I wish COVID didn't happen. I graduated in 2019, so I had that fall semester in person and then 2020 to 2021, 2022, it's just a blur. And I just say that because I feel like it just took my prime years as a professional away. And so I've always been told that your first year to your fourth or fifth year is like your new professional years. And I felt the Pandemic really took my new professional years where I kind of only know things as remote and not really pre COVID. But I think the lessons that I learned through the Pandemic really helped. And going back to grit and resilience, if it wasn't for the Pandemic, it wouldn't have built all of these personality traits and these values for me. So it's kind of like good and bad.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:00]:

Also just state for the record that grit and resilience traits, oftentimes for women of color, come out of a system that wasn't built for us, and we have to figure out how to navigate that system. So I think it's awesome that you found yourself being able to build those traits. But I also would encourage and challenge anyone listening to the show today who has authority over a system to really look at how that system is built for people and not built for people. Because that's really the driving. Force behind real inclusion and real progressive deib for your organizations and all of the values that we talk about a lot and sometimes we struggle to operationalize.

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:23:39]:

I love that. That was great retweet.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:43]:

I'm completely off of Twitter now, or X or whatever the heck that it's called. I had enough. I think my account I still own my username because I don't want anyone else to have my username, but haven't been active in a little while.

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:23:55]:

Yeah, it's been tough with that whole change with X.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:58]:

More transitions.

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:24:00]:

Yes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:00]:

Any final advice you'd like to give our listeners on their own transitions or wisdom from yours?

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:24:05]:

I think transitions can be such a beautiful thing. I think it's just how you look at it, because again, everything you want is on the other side of fear.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:13]:

It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:20]:

Welcome back to the NASPA World. Really excited to be able to talk to you again today. And there's a lot happening in NASPA. I know I say that every week, but it's true. So many opportunities to learn, to grow, to expand your horizon to the future that you have in front of you. And one of the things that is coming up in January january 24 to 27th in Atlanta, Georgia, is the 2024 NASPA Institute for Aspiring Vice Presidents for Student Affairs. We are currently seeking dedicated professionals to apply for the 2024 NASPA Institute for Aspiring Vice Presidents for Student Affairs. Make sure to block off a few minutes in your calendar as you look at the deadline that's coming up on October 15. This institute is a four day program for professionals considering or seeking to learn more about the Vice President for Student Affairs role. This application based program is an institute so unlike conferences where you may choose to participate or not in concurrent session, during this institute, all attendees will participate in the same cohort experience and are expected to engage fully in all aspects of the program. This is a powerful program that definitely prepares individuals to look at becoming a Vice President for Student Affairs. The ins, the outs, the positives, the negatives, everything in between, and you have a ton of great mentors that support you throughout the Institute and beyond. The institute faculty include claire Brody, Vice Chancellor of Student Affairs at Anna G. Mendez University jose Luis Riera, Vice President for Student Life at the University of Delaware pauline Dabrowski, Vice President for Student Affairs at Stonehill College. Sheila Higgs Burkhalter, Vice President for Student Affairs at Winthrop University brian Mitra, Vice President of Student Affairs and Enrollment Management at Queensboro Community College melissa Shivers, Senior Vice President for Student Life at the Ohio State University and Alvin Sturdavant, Vice Provost for Student Development at Seattle University. If you think you want to be a Vice President for Student Affairs in the future, I highly encourage you to consider this great opportunity. And just remember, the deadline for applying is October 15. Another great professional development opportunity that really falls into our last season of the podcast is the fifth European Conference for Student Affairs and Services. ASPA is partnering with Ayuka, which is. The European University College Association and Perodus College American Farm School as they all invite you to the fifth annual European Conference for Student Affairs and Services that's going to be held in Thessaloniki, Greece on November 9 through 11th. In a world where the availability, functionality and accessibility of technologies are growing exponentially and where new realities such as the metasphere appear, education providers need to reimagine their role in what is starting to be called the onlife world. Student affairs departments are well placed to support students in gaining invaluable experience, to get to know themselves better, and to grow and mature in this program. You can find out more about this program on the NASPO website. As you delve a little bit deeper, you're going to find that there are many different topics within this conference, including student affairs, staff preparation and professional development, career readiness and preparation for the future, mental health and well being and cultural skills and inclusive learning. The conference will definitely open your eyes to the broader world of student affairs outside of the United States and will open you to being able to consider perspectives that you may never have considered before. Highly encourage you to take a look at this conference and see if it's a right fit for you. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit, where do you want to give back? Each week. We're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in. That knowledge, community. I see myself doing something like that or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:50]:

Chris, always appreciative of your work with the NASPA World segment, keeping our members updated on what's going on in and around the association. Clarissa, we have reached our lightning round, so I have seven questions for you in 90 seconds.

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:30:04]:

You ready to go oh, my God, yes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:06]:

I promise you already know the answers. Okay, question one if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:30:15]:

Probably the man by Taylor Swift.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:17]:

Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:30:20]:

A pediatrician.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:21]:

Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:30:24]:

Her name is Dr. Sanja Daniels. She's the associate vice president for Campus Life at San Jose State University.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:30]:

Number four. Your Essential Student Affairs.

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:30:32]:

Read it's. The purple book from Anaspa. Asian Pacific Islanders. Knowledge, community understanding. I don't know the full title, but the Purple Book, that's what I call it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:43]:

Number five, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic.

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:30:46]:

This is gonna say so much about me, but Tiger King.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:50]:

Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:30:54]:

It's a split between Call Her Daddy by Alex Cooper and the True Crime Podcast.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:59]:

And finally, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or?

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:31:02]:

Oh, that's a good question. I just want to shout out my partner, Joshua Cruz, for letting me use his setup. I just want to give a shout out to the team at San Jose State University and student involvement. And I just want to give a shout out to my family, my mom, my had, my sister for being super supportive of me being in the doctoral program and just for letting me be in student affairs.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:21]:

And I know everyone can't see Clarissa's setup that borrowing from her partner, but it is kind of an epic, twitch streamer kind of situation.

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:31:28]:

Yes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:29]:

Got a lot of anime posters and giant professional microphones, so I hope that you're enjoying her audio quality today.

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:31:37]:

Yeah, apparently this is supposed to be, like, smooth and crispy, like a microphone quality.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:41]:

Clarissa, if people would like to reach you after the show, how can they find you?

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:31:44]:

I am on LinkedIn. Just look up Clarissa May. That's M-A-E Columbus. And then I'm on Twitter or X at Underscore Clarissa May. And then I'm on Instagram at two. Underscores Clarissa May. I think that's the only three social media platforms I use.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:02]:

Thank you so very much for sharing your voice with us today.

Clarissa Mae Calimbas [00:32:05]:

Thank you. I had so much fun.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:08]:

This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field, brought to you by NASPA. This show is always made possible because of you, our listeners. We are so grateful that you continue to listen to us season after season. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at favoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Craighton. We welcome your feedback and topic and especially your guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show. And please, like, rate and review us on Apple podcasts, spotify or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill L. Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Guest coordination by Lu Yongru. Special thanks to Duke Kunshan University and the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

View Details

In this episode of "Student Affairs Voices from the Field," Dr. Jill Creighton, the host, welcomes Dr. Chicora Martin as the season premiere guest. They discuss transitions in higher education and leadership within NASPA (National Association of Student Personnel Administrators). Dr. Martin shares her personal journey into student affairs, highlighting her circuitous path from aspiring to be a judge to finding her passion in student affairs.

Dr. Martin praises the podcast for its role in bringing forward the student affairs profession and shares how her chance meeting with a graduate student reflects her commitment to mentorship. She emphasizes the importance of seizing opportunities, even if they seem serendipitous, and how her own journey into student affairs was influenced by unexpected connections and experiences.

Dr. Creighton and Dr. Martin reminisce about their first meeting at the University of Oregon, highlighting the interconnectedness of the student affairs profession and the smallness of the community, which can be both a benefit and a challenge, especially for newcomers and those from underrepresented backgrounds.

They delve into Dr. Martin's transition into her role as NASPA Board Chair, discussing the selection process and the responsibilities associated with it. Dr. Martin shares her approach to this role, focusing on community engagement and connecting with NASPA members to ensure that the organization remains member-centric.

The conversation then shifts to Dr. Martin's experiences with transitioning between different types of institutions and geographic locations. She emphasizes the importance of remaining open to learning and adapting one's experiences to fit the new environment. Dr. Martin shares a valuable lesson about recognizing that her way of doing things is not the only way, citing an example from her time at Mills College. She acknowledges that leadership requires understanding and accommodating different individuals' tolerance for change and making decisions with grace and collaboration.

The episode concludes with Dr. Martin's reflections on the importance of building trust within her team and being open to feedback and adjustments in leadership decisions.

Overall, this episode highlights the significance of embracing transitions, seizing opportunities, and fostering inclusivity and trust in leadership roles within the student affairs profession and organizations like NASPA.

Please subscribe to SA Voices from the Field on your favorite podcasting device and share the podcast with other student affairs colleagues!

Transcript

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]:

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:24]:

Welcome to SA. Voices thank you so much.

Dr. Chicora Martin [00:00:27]:

I'm excited to be here with you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:28]:

We're so glad you agreed to be our season premiere of season nine, transitions in Higher Education. Think you're the perfect person to kick off our season because of your professional transitions, your institutional type transitions, and also your leadership transitions within NASPA. But as our season premiere person, that also means that we get to explore the direction of where we're going to go. And one of the things we will always keep consistent though, is we like to start our episodes with your come up. So how did you get to your current seat both at your institution and in NASPA?

Dr. Chicora Martin [00:00:59]:

Well, first of all, let me congratulate you on nine seasons of bringing forward our profession in a way that's really accessible to folks and interesting and lets us tell a little bit deeper story about what we're doing. So that's an amazing opportunity for you, for NASPA, and for Student affairs. So super excited to be a part of it. How I got here, I was just actually meeting with a grad student. So I have a general policy that if a grad student reaches out and wants to connect, I try to make that happen because I feel like that's an important part of the profession. So I actually had lunch with a graduate student last weekend who happens to be in the Atlanta area doing some work this year. And that was one of their questions, like, what was your student affairs journey? And I said, first, I said, I think I'm still on it. I'm not quite sure. Trying to figure out what I'm trying to do. But I went to college and really was as a first gen student, really with very little college knowledge. Got to my undergraduate because my mom's best friend's husband coached football there. That was part of my decision making factor in Student Affairs for thinking about the work we do around recruitment and trying to get students to come to our college. I'm sure all of the admissions professionals out there who hear this are going to cringe that. That was part of my college decision making journey. But alas, I got there and I was on a career trajectory to be into law and be a judge. That's what I wanted to do. That was my original career aspiration. So I got involved with the honor know, that seemed like a good extracurricular fit with being a judge. Right? And summer of my sophomore year, this person calls me in July. In the summer I'm working. They're like, hi, I'm your new dean of students at ECU. East Carolina is where I went my undergrad, and I'm going to be working with you next year. Really excited. I'm like, who calls you in the middle of the summer? I'm like, not even in the college frame, but alas. So that person was Dr. Karen Boyd, and she ended up being my dean for several years. Is actually a great friend of mine. At my wedding, we vacationed together even 30 years later almost. So it was because of her making me realize the opportunities available to me. I did want to go home for the summers back to my house in Virginia Beach, so I got connected with orientation so I could work. No real intention of it being a career. Hey, it was a job and a place to live and three meals. And I met the wonderful orientation director at Carolina, Beth Am. Pretty. And it really just went off from there, I think. I got a job in student affairs and got into law school the same week right when I was getting ready to graduate. My mom was a little surprised. You're going to do what? You're not going to go to law school? You're going to do this thing. I don't understand. But I did. I thought it was the right thing for me. I said then that I can always go back to law school. So yeah, so that's how I got into student affairs. It was sort of a circuitous serendipitous, I guess, is the better word for it, route. And I just kept taking advantage of opportunities and decided I wanted to go to grad school. So I had to wait a year, took as many advantages as I could where I was at ECU to do different jobs. I worked in admissions, I worked in the student union. Really cool opportunities. And I went to grad school so I could do this as a job. And my family, many of which have still not gone to college, are always like, how is school? School's still good? As if I'm still enrolled. I don't know. I don't know what they think I do, but it's really cute because they're always like student of life. Student. Exactly. I'm like school's still great. I think they think either just always in school or maybe I'm the principal, I don't know. But yeah, so that's why I got here. And I've just continued to have really great opportunities.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:20]:

The reason you heard me go, oh, wow, is I know Karen as well. Clearly not as well as you do, but I grew up in the conduct world, so Karen has been quite a presence stalwart in the conduct world for so many years.

Dr. Chicora Martin [00:04:30]:

It's true. I say she's always been really committed to this work and is a great connector, so it doesn't surprise me. Right. She's a great connector. She's always introducing people to each other. And I think I also, thankfully have learned that a little bit from her. So I try to do the same thing with people that I work with or mentor, just connecting them to the great people in our profession, for our.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:48]:

Listeners, Shakur and I on each other's journey. We met actually at the University of Oregon in 2000.

Dr. Chicora Martin [00:04:55]:

A long time. Sometime between somewhere. Yeah. Mid 2000, I think.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:02]:

Student affairs always comes around on itself, and I think it's a really great example of how small the profession can be, good, bad or ugly. But Shakura actually interviewed me for a job at one point when I was a much younger professional. So we all stay connected regardless of how those things turn out. I didn't end up working with Shakura on a full time basis, but we're still definitely in the Nasca space. You know, like, we're all those of us who've been around the block a few times, the six degrees of separation gets tinier and tinier.

Dr. Chicora Martin [00:05:29]:

It's true. I tell that to new professionals all the time in our field, is we have really tons and tons of amazing opportunities, and it's still a really small profession. And to your point, that can be good and challenging, I think good, because sometimes that sense of connectedness also is how we take care of each other. We look out. But I also know if you're coming from the outside and or you have identities that are not historically represented in our work, it can feel like you can't get in. Like, it's sort of an inside outside club. So I think we nurture that, but we also recognize it can feel a little clubbish, and we have to work on making sure everyone feels like they'd be a part of that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:04]:

Absolutely. And on our theme of transitions, you have now transitioned into the Nasca board chair role. You're in there a couple of months now, so I'm hoping you can talk to us a little bit about your come up in NASPA specifically and then also what that transition has been like from being, like, a general leader or a volunteer to suddenly sitting as the leader of the board.

Dr. Chicora Martin [00:06:25]:

Now, I appreciate that it's accidental leadership. If you heard, I giggle because when I remember talking to my partner when I was first approached about this opportunity and I said, it's a great thing. I mean, I won't get elected or anything. They probably won't even put me up. But it's a cool thing to be nominated or recognized, just to be to someone to reach out and say, hey, you're doing great things. We see you. So she laughs at me still that's, you know, you say that, and here you are doing you know, my role of work at NASA actually kind of parallels my work in student affairs in that I got my job. At the University of Oregon, and I was there in August, and Laura Blake Jones, who was the Dean of Students there at the time, said, hey, by the way, a bunch of us are on the Portland. It was a regional conference planning committee, and now you are yay. So welcome. I love being volatile. It was amazing. It was a very important job. I was in charge of parking.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:22]:

Oh, that was on a college campus. Do not underestimate the importance of parking.

Dr. Chicora Martin [00:07:26]:

I know it's true. I joke about it, and people are like, well, but if they can't park, no one can come. I was like, It's true. And parking in downtown Portland is not like most major cities. It's really challenging. But it's interesting though. I decided, like, okay, one thing, I was going to take that beyond and sort of my personality too. I was like, oh, what else can I do? So I had like, bus routes, and I got some free bus passes as giveaways. I just went and did all kinds of transportation things. So parking and transportation is important and fun, and I made the best of it. But I also said, hey, I know there's an LGBT knowledge community. I'm connected at that time. I was just I call it like a listserve member at the time, right? I got the emails and I said, I'd like to also provide some resources around LGBT things to do at the conference. And folks were really excited. So I took on that piece as well and just kind of ran with it. And it was a great opportunity. I met wonderful people in NASPA. It was really my first big involvement. And I think for the early part of my career, I was involved in both NASPA and ACPA fairly equally. ACPA was much bigger at my graduate institution, and I stayed connected to both. I think each organization has really valuable pieces for professionals and having each organization and lots of other ones, and I'll talk a little bit about that later, but that really benefit your professional development. So it's cool. Got connected to cool people and just stayed involved. Really got involved in the LGBT knowledge community. And that's what it was called at the time, right? And worked with that group and some wonderful leaders around some of the cool changes that we were working on as far as the organization being more inclusive, being more welcoming, and stayed connected there as well as the standing committee for ACPA. So it was really cool in working, and then as many of us sometimes do, I kept volunteering with NASPA, reviewing programs. That was one of the things I've constantly done. People are like, how do I get involved with something right away? I'm like, offer to review program proposals. It's one of the easiest ways, but really meaningful ways. You really help sculpt the professional development curriculum of our organization. So I've done that for years and generally was just open, especially when NASPA was close to us. So if it was close to me in an area as a relatively I'm not going to use the word poor that I don't think that's appropriate. As a relatively lower income employee at the time, I really couldn't travel nationally, so it was really taking advantage of whenever NASPA came by. The Bay Area first story. Get another bay in heights. So I was really excited in looking at my trajectory as a mid level professional and how you get to become into sort of a vice presidency. It's not a very clear process. It's somewhat opaque sometimes. How do you get the skills and experience? So I think my first really big opportunity to engage was when the faculty director of Manicure, which is a wonderful institute to help support women to get into VP positions, I would say argue sometimes to decide they don't want to be a vice president, which is a completely appropriate reason to also do it. Mamta Akapati reached out to me, and Mamta and I have known each other for a long time, more from afar. She's an amazing leader, really, I think sets a lot of opportunity in our community to talk about inclusive leadership in a particular way. And I've always really appreciated her work in that area and said, hey, you want to get involved with this thing, Manicure? I had never been, and not because I didn't think it was important, but because of my gender identity. I wasn't exactly sure if it was that space for me. I want to honor and respect spaces that are set for people who particularly have marginalized identities to sort of honor that. I think it's important. I think we can have lots of inclusive spaces, but I think those are vital too. And she moms and I said, let's talk. So we talked, and she really shared with me that this was about folks who are marginalized because of their gender, having a path to a VP position. And that really speaks to me because I would say that one of the reasons that I'm at a historically women's college is because we talk about gender all the time. All the time. You have to. It's what you do. So being able to really do that in a way through the NASPA leadership opportunities was exciting, and I think we had an amazing faculty. It was a really profound experience for me as a faculty member, and I had the honor. So it's every two years, the next two years, usually a faculty member is asked to be the faculty director. And so in 2020, I was able to be the faculty director. And again, just those leaders that I'm connected to the faculty, I have a text chat with all of them. To this day that we chat with each other, and some of the participants I'm still connected to reach out, and we have conversations about their careers, what they're doing, how things are going. It's really exciting. And so that was really my first national opportunity. Besides always being involved with the national conferences volunteering and doing all the things I could. I even remember volunteering at TPE for those of us who were older and remember volunteering at TPE. And mine was the mailboxes. So people asked me of one of my most memorable NASPA experiences is working at the mailboxes, at the placement exchange with folks, applying for jobs and trying to be really so my journey with NASPA was just about saying people, you know, opportunities with different groups and just saying, yeah, I'll try that, I'll help out. I will do whatever that thing is. And when I was approached to be the board chair, I really said, if the NASPA membership feels I can be of service, then I'm there. If they feel my leadership, what I bring, how I approach the work and our profession, then I would be honored to serve in that way.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:46]:

So let's talk about that process a little bit, because I think that too can be a bit opaque. How does one be considered to become the NASPA board chair, and what does that feel like as the person who just went through it and the transition from prospective candidate to candidate to sure.

Dr. Chicora Martin [00:13:01]:

There'S actually it's a pretty thoughtful process. It kind of goes back to what I said earlier about ensuring that we have a process that's clear to our membership, but it feels like there's an opportunity to engage with it at a variety of levels. So NASPA will reach out to folks around being the board chair. You can throw your own name out there and say, hey, I'm interested. They also solicit from NASPA leaders, ideas, folks who might be really interested. And the first part of that conversation is looking at, do we have a good slate of folks to talk with? Right? Are we representing different groups, different regions? That's a huge part, right? We represent a very diverse constituency, have our regions. Of course, I throw that all in the loop as I move across country. But we'll talk about our regions represented, different backgrounds, different functional areas. And then the past chair part of their responsibility is actually to run this process. So you serve three years, incoming chair, current chair, and past chair. So the past chair then reaches out to folks and has a conversation. I remember my conversation with Angela Batista, and it was really, really important because Angela named what would be expected. And I think that's important to really have a thoughtful conversation with yourself, to the demands of them, to have a conversation with your family, your boss, the people who work with you. Because I would say specifically the board chair year, you're going to ask those folks in your sphere of the world to sort of take on more and to support you. So I think in that process, then folks really name, okay, yeah, I'm interested, or it's not my time. And I would say a lot of folks will say that I am very interested, but it's not my time to do that. And I think that allows us to recognize that this is a volunteer position, that all of us have other jobs. You're required to be in a student affairs role while you're in the board chair position. So it is really on top of everything else. And from that, the slate of candidates, those two candidates that rise to the top through this committee selection process, through the interviews, go to the membership, and the members get to vote between those two folks. We do a great sort of webinar kind of conversation. We have to do a video. That two minute video. I feel like it took me 20 hours to make. It is so hard to get everything you want to say in two minutes. That was, I think, the hardest part of it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:09]:

And in one take. That is rough.

Dr. Chicora Martin [00:15:11]:

I know. It was so arduous. My staff will tell you here, I hate doing videos, especially when they're scripted. I don't like conversational. I love having a conversation. But those sort of scripted are when you really and you have to in two minutes, you have to write everything down, because if you don't, at least I I will name for myself. I'll wander off talking about whatever you want to talk about, but that was the hardest part. And then it goes out to the members, and they vote and make a decision about who can lead. And I would know. I ran against Eddie Martinez. He is an amazing human, and frankly, the NASPA would have been in a great hands no matter who they elected. So, thankfully, Eddie is now on the foundation board. I'm glad we've kept him close. He's a wonderful person, and I know he'll really serve that foundation board well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:56]:

And it's such a delightful thing to think about. Your colleagues nominating you for this leadership role, but also really important to know that there's an interview process that you have to really think about why you want to be in this position and what does it mean to you. And the interesting thing about association leadership, which is much different than campus based leadership, is that you are actually more of a steward of the association for the period of time you're in the seat, rather than kind of operationally leading like you would in a division of student affairs. So let's talk a little bit about the transition of hat that you have to wear between your day job and your board chair job.

Dr. Chicora Martin [00:16:29]:

Yeah, that's a great analogy. That stewardship I describe it as I'm a threat. And one end of my thread is connected to Danita, right. She's already gone through and served our organization and still does this past year. And the other end of my thread is connected to Anna Gonzalez, who will come in next year. And I sort of hold this for a year, but I need to figure out how do I add texture and color to that. That's unique to me and my leadership that really helps serve the organization overall, because that's the most important thing. And I think my leadership style and what I bring to that. But you're right, there's a whole I use the word gaggle, very fondly gaggle of amazing staff at NASPA who do exceptional work to make this manageable for someone like me. I mean, quite frankly, if it wasn't for them, this would not be possible. They are leaders in higher education. Almost all of them have worked in higher education or in something really closely related. Many have. So they understand the flow. And I always joke we have a pretty routine bruton and I schedule throughout the year, but we don't meet in August in the same way. And people are like, oh, we're not meeting in August. I'm like because it's August. And Beth understands what August looks like for most of us.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:35]:

Unless you're on quarters.

Dr. Chicora Martin [00:17:36]:

I know. I bet our term schools are like, in September. I know, but we do try. I think it's important. So the NASPA staff are great, and they're know I think every board chair comes in with a sort of a vision of how do I support the organization? And a big part of mine is sort of being with folks in community. So I've made it a real effort throughout the past summer to be able to go to as many regional conferences, specialties conferences, like our Student Success Conference. I'm looking forward to our Strategies conference in January, our racial equity conference in December. So being there and having conversations, I had wonderful visits with region Two and Three at their regional conferences in June. So I think that's an important part of what I think I'm bringing to that sort of stewardship of the board chair is helping our membership understand that, yes, there's this amazing group of staff, but the responsibility and opportunity of NASPA is with us. It is our organization. And you have a board of volunteers who represent all of the regions, all of the divisions, all the wonderful areas that are so important to us. And they are working really hard to make sure NASPA is your organization. And we want you to engage and participate by being in volunteer roles, reading whatever way you can participate. So that really, I think, is my sort of opportunity to steward the relationship our membership has with not. I would say in some ways, it's not unlike being a vice president in that I spend a lot of time ensuring that everyone understands what the Division of Student Affairs does, the important work and contributions we make to the learning and education for students. But thankfully, in my day job, I do a lot of problem solving. And I would say that generally, the Nasca staff ends up being a great know. Kevin and I meet monthly to do that, and by the time we hear about. They have like six solutions. They're like, here are the six solutions the board can choose. Pick one. So I wish I had that group of people all the time. Although I would say, here my current role. My staff also do a pretty good job of that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:37]:

So when you think about the transitions of institution types, you've also spent time at large publics. You're now at a small private. You changed and transitioned between the east and the West Coast, or really the West Coast to the south. Tell us about those transitions and what you've learned and what made them successful, or I guess also what made them really scary.

Dr. Chicora Martin [00:19:55]:

Does that make me like a sort of student affairs unicorn? When I was talking to someone, they were like, you went from a big public to a small private, from the West Coast to the East Coast. Right. I think it just shows you what we talked about earlier, that our profession, while large, is also small in some ways. There's some consistent things that we think also. For me, transitions are about remaining really open to bringing your experience, but recognizing every position you come into as an opportunity to learn, as opposed to assuming you know all the answers. So I think that's always been a very successful sort of transitions approach for me. I went from a school of 25,000 to a school with less than 2500 and being able open to say, yeah, I've got some great ideas, but I need to also see how I could apply them here. I'll use a funny example. So when I went from Oregon to Mills College, when I got there, they had all these posters and flyers everywhere, and they were all like handwritten and were and I said, well, why don't we create a way so they can create more digital posters or we can get a tool people can use. And I'm thinking this in my head because my policy is when I come to a new position, I'm just sort of soaking it in. And then it only took me about a month to realize that was just an important part of that way that campus communicated that sort of homemade and or high touch approach. It wasn't just that they put these banners up, but the fact that the organization who did them all got together and made them together and then put them up, that was part of the culture of gathering for them sense of belonging. And had I just come in and said, oh, we have these great tools at this big school and we're going to do this thing, I wouldn't have seen or felt that. So instead, I bought them a stencil machine. So little cutout stencils for those of you who have those on your campus, you know, little machine, you hope nobody takes their finger off it. Makes me a little nervous. But alas, then we had little classes. You had to do a little class before you could use the stencil machine. And then I bought, like, every color butcher paper on that cool wheelie thing known to student affairs so that students could just make better posters. They could be clear, you could read them better, they could do them more quickly. They had the right supplies, and we had a little big table in a space where they could do it. So I think that's an example of sort of recognizing that in transitions, we bring a lot of knowledge and experience, but to do it well, we have to be able to adapt it to the community we're a part of. We have to just recognize. And I think this is also one of the things I take away from traveling abroad a lot. You and I have talked about this. We both have this love of travel, and I traveled very young. My father imported spices for a living. That was his job. And so I had the opportunity to be in countries in the Middle East and in Europe pretty young. And I took from that also, like, oh, my way of doing things is just a way of doing things. It is not the way of doing things. And I think that has helped me in every transition to recognize I have great experience, but I need to figure out how to apply that to the benefit of that campus or that volunteer role to make it better and to kind of contain be nimble and also learn stuff. I mean, that's the coolest part. I'm always learning things from those around me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:56]:

Is there a time that you made a mistake in a transition that you've learned from and applied towards future transition.

Dr. Chicora Martin [00:23:02]:

Mistake, opportunity for learning?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:04]:

I don't know.

Dr. Chicora Martin [00:23:05]:

I'm kind of an optimist. No, I would describe as mistakes. You do things in a silo that you are unwilling to own. Like, that's sort of a mistake. For me, everything else is an area where you did probably the best with the knowledge you had, but you have to own when it's just it's not the right thing or it didn't work or you weren't as inclusive. And sure, certainly I think sometimes I get ahead of myself. I'm about recognizing that not everybody has a different tolerance for change and a good leader number one job is to recognize that actually not just to do the change, but to actually recognize folks tolerance for change. I was at Mills College when Mills College merged with Northeastern. Talk about learning. I never thought I would do that in my higher education experience. And I think there were certainly times where it was challenging. Right. It's challenging for an organization to change that significantly. And I learned a lot from trying to apply kind of traditional roles of sort of change management in a way that we've never done before. Right. But it's also having some grace with myself and with others. Around me. So I'd say that's a takeaway. Even when I mess up, which I think the first thing is just I actually not that long ago said to Sioux staff who brought forward, hey, we don't like the way this was going. This is how it's impacting us. First thing is I said thank you for trusting me to bring this to me. That can be scary. I'm your boss. Second, I'm sorry, I hear what you're saying. I wasn't coming from that perspective, we need to do some things, but I see how doing it that way is problematic. So let's get together in the end. I should have gotten together first, but sometimes we get moving so quickly that we don't recognize everyone who needs to be there. And that that change is really important. And as I said to my folks that work with me, hopefully we can build a layer of trust that if I do have to do that, you can trust me enough to know that it's not the typical way I want to make change, but the situation required it. So doing that, naming that, and then what I think that big opportunity always takes is that change is never easy. It sometimes feels a little easy when you're in positions of power and positions of decision making. And information really is just about everything. How we control information, how decisions are made, who gets to make decisions. I think that's the key to not making mistakes and to just learning from those opportunities.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:25]:

It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:31]:

Welcome back to the NASPA World. Really excited to be able to talk to you again today in a brand new season. And there is a lot going on in NASPA. Coming up in only a few days on September 20 at 02:00 p.m. Eastern Standard Time, is a webinar that is available for members and nonmembers alike called Career Readiness. A shared responsibility between student affairs and academic affairs. At research focused institutions, career outcomes have focused on the first destination, corporate hiring and graduate school enrollment. Today, the measures of student success are more broad than a first destination. Career readiness is now an accepted student success outcome. How do research intensive institutions frame this? Explicitly as tied to institutional learning objectives and a shared responsibility of academic and student affairs? In this webinar, three institutions Stony Brook University, SUNY, the College of Liberal Arts at the University of Minnesota, and the University of Texas at Austin will share their models and approaches. You can still register, so go to the NASPA website to find out more. There's another new volume of the Journal of College and Character that is currently out. All NASPA members do have access to this journal. Among all of the other journals of the association in this issue, there are a number of great articles, peer reviewed articles, as well as opinions and perspectives that range from topics involving career development to university chaplaincy to even considering antihazing messaging. It's a powerful journal that I highly encourage you to check out. It is a part of your membership, and you can take advantage of reading through the different articles from many different authors and practitioners here in the field. Know you get a lot of emails from knowledge communities and other aspects of NASPA, but it's important for you to check those emails, read through them, because there are specific dates and deadlines and things that you need to keep in mind in regard to your membership, in regard to how you can recognize people on your own campus or programs on your own campus. And I don't want you to miss out on these opportunities. One such opportunity is the annual awards process that happens every fall, and the deadline for submitting programs and people for different awards that are hosted by knowledge communities within NASPA or NASPA in general, typically have a deadline of Friday, October 6, 2023. So I want to encourage you to go to the NASPA Awards portal on the NASPA website, and you can go into the NASPA website, go to awards, and find out more. But in there, you can go in, you can look at Knowledge Community Awards, division Awards, dissertation of the Year Awards. There's lots of different awards that are out there and different deadlines, and all the deadlines that are out there as well. Most are October 6. But the Dissertation of the Year award is Saturday, September 30. So I don't want you to miss out on taking advantage of submitting for these awards, submitting others for these awards, because it is a great opportunity to be able to recognize the work that is being done, the people, the programs at your own institutions, and being able to have them potentially get recognized at the national Conference. So, again, the deadline is October 6. I really highly encourage you to at least go check out the portal itself. To make it simple, I know I said you could go to the NASPA website to access this, and you can, but I'm going to make it even simpler. I created a short link for you to follow to be able to check out all the awards, and it's just bitbit lynaspa, 20 fourawards, all one word. So again, bit Lee NASPA 20 fourawards. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself. Where do you fit? Where do you want to give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:21]:

Chris, thanks so much for kicking us off with season nine's very first NASPA World segment. As always, we are so grateful for you putting together this list. And if you're new to the show, we want to remind you that our mission here is to provide free and accessible professional development for you, our student affairs professionals, especially as we know, as our travel budgets are seemingly restricted more and more every year. So we thank you for joining us and we're glad that you're here. And Shakura, we have reached our lightning round time. I've got seven questions for you in about 90 seconds. You ready?

Dr. Chicora Martin [00:31:51]:

Okay, I'm ready. Let's do it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:53]:

All right, question number one if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Chicora Martin [00:31:58]:

Oh, I have two choices if it's a chill conference. The rainbow connection by Kermit the Frog. If we're going a little more fly it's. I was here by Beyonce.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:06]:

Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be.

Dr. Chicora Martin [00:32:09]:

When you grew think? I'm not sure I wanted to be a judge quite yet. I definitely want to be underwater, so I would say maybe I want to live underwater or be a marine biologist. One of the two.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:19]:

Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Chicora Martin [00:32:22]:

Oh, Dr. Karen Boyd. I think, like I said, is the reason I got here. And I would say just about every person I've worked for and with is a mentor to me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:31]:

Number four, your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Chicora Martin [00:32:34]:

Reading the books that we learn from every one of them has a student affairs message. My current one is Braiding Sweetgrass, which is a great context on science and indigenous folks. So that's the one that's going to inform me today.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:45]:

Number five, the best TV show you binged during the Pandemic.

Dr. Chicora Martin [00:32:48]:

All right. The mass singer. That was it. I wouldn't say it's the best, but it certainly helped me get through the pandemic. And the other one was Bridgerton, so we could talk about that. That was a great piece.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:58]:

Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Chicora Martin [00:33:02]:

This is amazing. I don't listen to a ton of podcasts, but my wife does and she tells me all about them. So The Hidden Brain has been a really recent one that she's been listening. I've been listening through her.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:12]:

And finally, number seven. Any shout outs you'd like to give? Personal or professional?

Dr. Chicora Martin [00:33:16]:

Thank you for that. I have one for you for taking the time to do this to my great wife and all of our kids who are attached to us. We have about seven and some grandkids for putting up with us and to all the student affairs professionals who are new to the field and finding your path and journey. There's a place here for you and we're excited to have you with us. And for the folks who've been here a while, leading is challenging, so we're here to support you as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:35]:

You made it, yay. Really appreciate you taking time out of your very busy schedule and balancing the time zones that we're currently in. Currently, Shakur and I are recording 12 hours opposite, so very early in the morning for them and very late at night for me. So we're making it work and then we're going to do this for the rest of the season. But this is part of my joy as a student affairs professional, getting to have depth of story with the amazing humans who make NASPA happen and who make our profession work and who are committed to positive change in our profession. So I'm grateful for you and your leadership and looking forward to seeing what the next semester and a half bring in your stewardship of the organization. I think it'll be over before you blink.

Dr. Chicora Martin [00:34:14]:

Oh, it will. Thank you for hosting this and for the opportunity for the world to be able to have, like you said, accessible professional development at their fingertips. One of the most important things we do.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:24]:

And finally, Shakura, if anyone would like to connect with you after the show airs, how can they find you?

Dr. Chicora Martin [00:34:28]:

Sure easiest is LinkedIn. And then if you Google Shakura Martin, you will see my position and the NASPA website. So check those out and then message me on LinkedIn if you have questions.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:37]:

Thank you so much for sharing your voice with us.

Dr. Chicora Martin [00:34:39]:

Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:41]:

This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, brought to you by NASPA. This show is always made possible because of you, our listeners. We are so grateful that you continue to listen to us season after season. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Craighton. We welcome your feedback and topic and especially your guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show. And please like, rate and review us on apple podcasts spotify or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill L. Creighton. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Guest coordination by Lu Yongru. Special thanks to Duke Kunshan University and the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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We are very excited to be preparing for Season 9 of SA Voices from the Field. This season we will be looking at things that we do something we do many times in our careers, transitions. Take a listen while Jill Creighton and Chris Lewis talk abmany times in ourout the new season.

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Transcript

Jill Creighton:

Welcome to Student Affairs voices from the field. The podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 9 on transitions in student affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA. And I'm Doctor Jill Creighton. Sheherhers, your SA voices from the field host.

Happy August, Chris.

Christopher Lewis:

It is great to be back and really excited about this new season and new school year. and just new in general.

Jill Creighton:

You've got a lot of major things happening in your life right now about to sun. Well, I'll I'll let you talk about it.

Christopher Lewis:

that we do. And not only with work, but personally, I'm sending my oldest to college. So she is a freshman the university of North Carolina Chapel Hill. She's there. She started, and she is living her best life. So we are stepping back and watching from a distance and doing the whole parent thing. And I'm watching from the pilons and watching to see how student affairs works at other institutions.

Jill Creighton:

It's such a fascinating thing to going from the person who's behind the scenes to the person who's experiencing the thing that we all try to make sure it works. And that's a huge transition for you. I also know that I've got a huge transition on my campus this fall Over the summer here at DKU, we opened 22 new buildings. And I know that is such a wild concept for pretty much anyone in American Higher Ed. But because my institution is only a decade old, we're still building infrastructure. So our phase 2 campus just opened out of 22 of those facilities. 11 of them are under student affairs. And I've got a new sports complex opening, our student union building, which is called our community center. Just came online. And I also have 8 undergraduate residence halls and 1 graduate student residence hall. And, you know, I've opened new buildings in my career before. but I've literally never opened 11 at once. So big transitions for both of us, which got us really thinking, what do we wanna focus on this season? So, Chris, do you wanna make the big announcement?

Christopher Lewis:

Really excited because this season, we're going to be talking about transitions gonna be talking about transitions in our personal life, but we're also gonna be talking about transitions in student affairs to get some amazing guests throughout the entire season. they're gonna be talking about transitions that they've gone through in their careers and the things that worked, the things that didn't work, or might not have worked, and we'll definitely be learning from all of them along the way and pass that learning on to you.

Jill Creighton:

And we want to really take your guest suggestions this season as well. We're always open to them. But if you know someone who's making a transition in their career, whether it be from undergraduate to graduate student pursuing a master's in higher ed or a graduate student to 1st full time position or from a new professional to mid level professional, especially if you're going from never supervising full time professionals before to leading and supervising full time professionals. We're also very excited to be experiencing along with them at the transition to NASA board chair for Doctor Shikora Martin. And then I'll also give a teaser that one of our long time NASA members and pillar of the profession, Doctor. Lori S White, will be coming on to talk about transition from VPSA to a university president, which is a very, very big transition. So all of these folks are going to be sharing their stories and We really do hope to hear from you on other folks who we should be featuring.

Christopher Lewis:

One of the things that I would really throw out there, and they said this at the beginning is that if you know of somebody or if you have had a transition that wasn't the best transition and it wasn't a positive experience, we'd like to talk to you too. because we don't want any of these episodes to come across as being that all transitions are great because they're not. And so many times where you might make a choice you may step into something and it doesn't work out, but you learn from it and the learning that you had from that experience or others have had from their experiences could help others to not make the same mistake and to be able to learn and grow from the steps that you were in or that others were in.

Jill Creighton:

The other type of transition that we'd love to hear from you on is if you're experiencing leadership transition, maybe you yourself are sitting in the same seat, but perhaps the people above you are changing. I know that's happening on my campus. We're getting a brand new chancellor as well as a brand new executive vice chancellor, which in the structure that I operate in, is effectively the COO of the campus. And so having kind of the top two roles that my campus changing at the same time is a major transition. So while my role is staying stable, I don't know what the priorities of the new leadership will be, and I think that's always an thing placed to navigate. And so wherever you are in your organizational structure, if that's happening for you, you would also be a great guest.

Christopher Lewis:

Oh, Jill, I'm just really excited I'm excited to not only be a part of this season, but to learn about from all of the guests because I know there's going to be so much that they're going to share, not only with us, but it's great to be behind the scenes. And I know that you that are listening are going to learn so much from the season as well. And we just love having you listen every week.

Jill Creighton:

So thank you for continuing to come back. We will be releasing our first episode sometime in early to mid-September still on that Thursday drop. So for those of you who are commute-based listeners, and you can look forward to like I said, early to mid-September, and we look forward to, bring you all the content. So see you very soon.

Jill Creighton [00:05:32]:

This has been an episode of essay voices from the field brought to you by NASPA. This show is always made possible because of you, our listeners, we are so grateful that you continue to listen me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L Creighton. We welcome your feedback and topic and especially your guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment tell a colleague about the show, and please like Bait and review us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals buy the show and helps us after Chris Lewis. Guests coordination by Lu Yongru, special thanks to Duke Kunshan University and the University of Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field, we interviewed Gian Luca Giovannucci, President of the European University College Association.

Gian Luca is a lawyer registered with the Italian bar association.

He has been on the board of directors of Collegio Universitario Internazionale di Roma (CUIR) since 1992, advocating for the integration of life skills in the academic curricula and working for national recognition of University Colleges of Merit (Collegi di Merito) to foster academic excellence in Italy.

Recognizing the added value of internationalization in higher education, Gian Luca promoted the
creation of the European University College Association (EucA) in 2006, and he has been its
president ever since. During his tenure with EucA, Gian Luca has pursued the association’s growth,
and official recognition by European Union institutions of University Colleges’ role in providing a
holistic education for students that strengthens their development and employability.

While at EucA, he has overseen the creation and management of European research projects,
namely Modernising Higher Education through Soft Skills Accreditation (MODES).

He is a keen supporter of NASPA-Student Affairs Administrators in Higher Education, with which he has collaborated since 2012 in the organization of International Events.

From the beginning, Gian Luca has enthusiastically participated in IASAS's creation. He has
participated from the first meeting in 2010 in Venice, with IASAS President Emeritus Roger
Ludeman, to his current role as Treasurer.

In 2012, he attended the first IASAS Global Summit in Washington D.C., USA. He organized the
second in Rome, Italy in 2014, continuing the collaboration until the Global Summit in Cork, Ireland in 2022.

Gian Luca is a co-author of the volume "Supporting Students globally in the Higher Education",
published in 2016 by IASAS and NASPA.

When not engaging with EucA projects and students in Brussels, Rome or other European cities,
Gian Luca is an enthusiastic promoter of “made in Italy” products: be it Italian fashion, cuisine or
wines, he persuasively argues-as any lawyer does-the advantages of buying Italian goods.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field, we interviewed Dr. Niamh Nestor, Student Adviser at the Veterinary Sciences Centre, University College Dublin.

Niamh’s work is focused on student support, primarily on mental health and well-being among veterinary medicine and veterinary nursing students. Niamh’s background is in sociolinguistics, migration, and integration, and her doctoral research focused on Polish children and teenagers who had migrated to Ireland since Poland joined the European Union in 2004. At UCD, Niamh’s work is focused on student support, primarily on mental health and well-being among veterinary medicine and veterinary nursing students.

She supports the rollout of the HEA National Student Mental Health and Suicide Prevention Framework at UCD. Niamh is an active member of the community life of the university. She runs UCD Purl Jam, the university’s craft/creative group. She co-founded the Veterinary Community Garden on campus. She is also an active member of the UCD Community Choir. Niamh is involved in implementing equality, diversity, and inclusion initiatives in her School and the wider UCD community. She co-chairs the UCD LGBTQI+ EDI committee and the UCD LGBTQI+ Staff Network. She is an active member of the Athena SWAN Committee in her school. She joined this committee because she is deeply committed to challenging injustice, intolerance, and bigotry and to achieving equality, diversity, and inclusion for all. She believes in active allyship and is passionate about fighting against complacency. Rights that have been hard won can be easily lost, and every small thing we do to protect those rights matters. EDI work on higher-level campuses is vital in this regard, and Niamh is particularly interested in empowering and supporting students to continue the fight for equality into the future.

Outside of work, Niamh loves to work in her garden. She has recently joined a dance class and taken up carpentry. She volunteers for Dublin Lesbian Line, teaches piano, and likes to travel.

Niamh Nestor is on LinkedIn, and also people can get me by email: niamh.nestor@ucd.ie

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This week on SA Voices From the Field, we interviewed David Pe, Vice Chancellor for Student Affairs at NYU Shanghai.

In his role, David Pe oversees the student life experience for NYU Shanghai’s diverse student community and ensures that all students are provided the support and resources needed to thrive during their studies at this university. His areas of oversight include Residential Life, New Student Programs, Student Belonging, Athletics & Fitness, Student Health, Career Development, Student Involvement, and Inbound/Outbound Mobility.

David joined NYU Shanghai in 2012 as an inaugural member of the university’s administrative team, helping to build NYU Shanghai from the ground up. He has also served in various capacities within student life at the NYU campus in New York.

David holds a Bachelor’s Degree in Chinese Literature from the University of California, Los Angeles, a Master’s Degree in Higher Education Administration from New York University, and a Doctor of Education in Organizational Change and Leadership from the University of Southern California. His research interests include intercultural communication and the interactions between design and learning.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we bring you the third episode of our conference recap. In this episode we bring you the voices of about 70 professionals who attended the NASPA Annual Conference as they answer the question: What topics would you like to see more in future conferences? Special thanks to all of the professionals who shared their voices with us. If you have an interest in sharing your voice or ideas with us about a future podcast, email us at savoices@naspa.org

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we bring you the second episode of our conference recap. In this episode we bring you the voices of about 70 professionals who attended the NASPA Annual Conference as they answer the question: What would you like to learn about student affairs practices around the world? Special thanks to all of the professionals who shared their voices with us. If you have an interest in sharing your voice or ideas with us about a future podcast, email us at savoices@naspa.org

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we bring you the first episode of our conference recap. In this episode we bring you the voices of about 70 professionals who attended the NASPA Annual Conference as they answer the question: What is one thing that is changing within the field that excites you? Special thanks to all of the professionals who shared their voices with us. If you have an interest in sharing your voice or ideas with us about a future podcast, email us at savoices@naspa.org

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This week on SA Voices From the Field, we interviewed Hala Al-Abdulrazzaq, Dean of Student Affairs at the American University of Kuwait (AUK).

Hala Al-Abdulrazzaq earned a B.A. in Psychology from George Washington University in 2005 and is currently pursuing her M.A. in Educational Leadership at the University of Central Florida. Since joining American University of Kuwait in 2008 as an academic advisor, Ms. Abdulrazzaq was appointed as Assistant Director in 2012 and Director of the Academic Advising Center in 2017. Ms. Abdulrazzaq continuously improved upon the academic advising landscape at AUK always maintaining the academic and holistic success of students as her ultimate goal. She was responsible for the efficient and effective operations of academic advising activities and carried out the responsibilities of quality academic advising services while continuously interfacing with faculty and staff alike.

As Dean, Ms. Abdulrazzaq is in charge of the Academic Advising Center, the Office of Student Life, the Counseling Center, and the direction and management of the Dean of Student Affairs Office.

Her approach to promoting excellence, encouragement, and hands-on support within the Division and AUK community is exemplary. Ms. Al- Abdulrazzaq’ s willingness and efforts to enhance the student experience have not gone unnoticed.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field, we interviewed PhD candidate in China, Echo Zhao.

Echo Zhao was an international student in the United States for about six years and a double alumnus of Iowa State University. Like many international students, she entered college underprepared to succeed. Her parents valued education but could not help her navigate college with their language barriers. She struggled with her academics, self-confidence, and sense of belonging.

She switched three majors because she was unsure of what she wanted to do. With different student affairs professors’ support and help, she continued her master’s degree in higher education-student affairs. Her college experience became the catalyst for her career in student affairs.

She has worked in 5 different departments within Student Affairs in 3 different types of institutions in her past working experiences. She realizes the need to connect practical practices with theoretical knowledge to further contribute to the international higher education field.

Meanwhile, she values herself as a lifelong learner. She is currently a Ph.D. candidate at the University of Macau in the Faculty of Education. I hope I can continue supporting college students’ dreams and empowering them to own their path to a degree in my current role and future.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field, we interviewed Mirela Mazalu, Secretary General of the European University College Association (EucA).

Mirela Mazalu spends her day job in the European higher education by helping students explore career pathways and gain confidence in their potential.

When she's not pursuing directly students' aha moments, she does it indirectly by organising professional development initiatives for student affairs staff internationally.

Her official job title is Secretary-General of the European University College Association - EucA, a non-profit association based in Belgium.

She joined EucA in 2010 and serves in her current capacity since 2017.

Mirela speaks 5 languages, Romanian, Italian, English, Spanish and French, and has lived in 3 countries, Romania, Italy and Belgium. But the best title she has is, simply, international educator.

When asked where home is, she feels most comfortable replying “Europe”.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field, we interviewed Wadad Youssef El-Husseiny, Consultant to VP of Student Affairs at Qatar University.

Ms. Wadad Youssef El-Husseiny Consultant to VP of Student Affairs at Qatar University. She has worked at multiple institutions in the Middle East and started her career as Instructor of Social Sciences at Balamand University in Lebanon where she taught for a decade. In 2001, she joined the American University of Beirut as Director of Student Activities till 2009. Joined Qatar University as Consultant to VP of student affairs where she resumed the responsibility of Acting Director of Student Activities till May 2012. Since 2012 her role as consultant for the VP entitled her to get involved in various strategic initiatives to ensure the success of Qatar University students. She is the chair of the Student Affairs Professional Development committee at Qatar University.

Former vice president for the IASAS (International Association of Student Affairs and Services). Certified Springboard Trainer since 2010 which is Women’s empowerment program in collaboration with Springboard Consultancy. Member of the MENASA-NASPA board for 2020-2022. Recipient of the Wisdom Award of the Commission of Women’s Identities – ACPA in 2021. Interested in Leadership of Higher Education and Student Affairs, and women role in higher education.

Well known for having her finger on the pulse of the region, Wadad continues to be an engaged advocate of professional development, and student affairs leadership in the Middle East.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field, we interviewed Dr. Sumun L. Pendakur, DEI Strategist/Consultant, Speaker, and Trainer with Sumun Pendakur Consulting.

Dr. Sumun L. Pendakur (Sumi) believes that we have infinite capability to imagine and enact a more just, equitable, and compassionate world. Sumi is a scholar-practitioner, an activist-educator, a skilled facilitator, and a mom. With nearly 20 years in the field of higher education and a decade as a DEI speaker and trainer, Sumi's work and research focuses on helping campuses, corporations, non-profits, and other organizations build capacity for social justice and racial equity by empowering individuals at all levels to be transformational agents of change in their spheres of influence. Most recently, Sumi was the Chief Learning Officer and Director of the USC Equity Institutes at the USC Race and Equity Center, dedicated to advancing racial justice in higher education and other sectors. Prior to that position, Sumi held roles as the Assistant Vice President for Diversity and Inclusion at Harvey Mudd College, serving on the President’s Cabinet and directing the Office of Institutional Diversity, and as the Director for USC Asian Pacific American Student Services.

Sumi received her doctorate in Higher Education Leadership, as well as the Dissertation of the Year award, for her study on institutional change agents, from the USC Rossier School of Education. Sumi is serving her second term on the Board of Directors for NADOHE, the National Association of Diversity Officers in Higher Education. She has served as Faculty Coach for the AAC&U’s multi-year TIDES (Teaching to Increase Diversity and Equity in STEM) Institute. She is also the co-editor, with Dr. Shaun Harper and Dr. Stephen Quaye, of Student Engagement in Higher Education: Theoretical Perspectives and Practical Approaches for Diverse Populations (3rd edition) (2020). In 2019, she was named one of the top 35 women in higher education by Diverse: Issues in Higher Education magazine.

Sumi is the multilingual daughter of immigrants, was raised in the Midwest, and currently calls Los Angeles, CA, home. She is the wife of actor Sunil Malhotra, and proud mommy to Shashi Veer and Shama Shakti.

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We are taking a few weeks break this season as Jill Creighton and Christopher Lewis will be heading to Boston to meet those of you that are going to be attending NASPA's Annual Conference. We have a number of additional amazing guests coming laster this season. Stay tuned as we will be back in a few weeks!

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This week on SA Voices From the Field, we interviewed Dr. Janelle Rahyns about her own experiences leading efforts for NASPA in international student affairs.

Dr. Janelle Rahyns serves as the associate director for global initiatives and virual learning at NASPA – Student Affairs Administrators in Higher Education. She supports the association's international initiatives such as NASPA's Global Division, the MENASA Advisory Board, the MENASA NASPA Conference, the Global Summit on Student Affairs and Services, the International Symposium, the International Exchange Program, and assists in the support of the Latin America and the Caribbean Advisory Board. Prior to joining NASPA, Janelle served as the Assistant Dean at Yale-NUS College in Singapore, and the Resident Director at the University of California Los Angeles. Her research interests focus on African American college students, comparative study abroad experiences, international student affairs, and race and ethnicity in study abroad.

Janelle holds a Ph.D. in Social Science & Comparative Education with a concentration in International & Comparative Education from the University of California Los Angeles, an M.Ed in Student Personnel in Higher Education and a B.A. in Political Science from the University of Florida.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field, we interviewed WP Wahl about his own experiences working in South Africa.

Dr W.P. Wahl has been involved in student affairs for 21 years, and currently serves as Director: Student Life at the University of the Free State (UFS), in central South Africa – a position he has occupied since October 2016. During the past two decades he has been involved in numerous transformation projects, involving highly diverse student communities. From 2017 to 2019 Dr Wahl directed, in collaboration with a co-director from the United States, the annual ACUHO-I Student Housing Training Institute in South Africa. During 2021 and 2022 Dr Wahl served as the principal investigator of a national research study on student-centred universities for the Transformation Strategy Group (TSG), Universities South Africa (USAf).

He is well published and his scholarly focus centres around creating campus environments that are conducive to student learning, development and success, especially students hailing from disadvantaged backgrounds. Dr Wahl served as the Editor-in-Chief of the Journal of Cognitive Education and Psychology (JCEP) during 2021 and 2022, as well as editor of the Journal of Student Affairs in Africa (JSAA) for the past seven years. He also supervises Masters and PhD students in the Faculty of Education, UFS. His most recent book, co-authored by Louis H. Falik, (Accommodating Marginalized Students in Higher Education: A Structural Theory Approach) will be published by Routledge in 2023. He is married to Siobhone and is the father of three children; Judah, Joshua and Milcah.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field, we interviewed Baishakhi Taylor about her own experiences working in Abu Dhabi, after years working in student affairs within the United States.

Baishakhi Taylor is a member of the University’s senior leadership team and oversees the Division of Student Affairs, which comprises the following departments: student life, the career development center, community outreach, spiritual life and intercultural education, the student health center, student success and well-being, and athletics.

Baishakhi holds a Ph.D. in Sociology from the University of Kentucky, a master’s degree in Women’s Studies from the University of Northern Iowa, and master’s and bachelor’s degrees in Comparative Literature from Jadavpur University in Kolkata, India. She is fluent in several languages, including Bangla, Hindi/Urdu, and German.

Prior to joining NYU Abu Dhabi, Taylor served as the Dean of the College at Smith College in Northampton, MA. She oversaw academic advising, international students, student affairs, residential life, student engagement, health and counseling services, athletics, career services, and disability services.

Baishakhi joined Smith College from Middlebury College, where she served as Vice President for Student Affairs and Dean of Students, and as Assistant Professor in the Department of Gender, Sexuality and Feminist Studies. During her tenure at Middlebury, Taylor co-led the Alliance for Inclusive Middlebury, a presidential committee charged with developing a strategic plan for making inclusion a priority for the institution.

Prior to her work at Middlebury, Taylor served as the associate dean of Trinity College of Arts and Sciences at Duke University and the program director of DukeEngage-Kolkata. She was also a member of the faculty at the Duke Center for South Asian Studies.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field, we interviewed Dr. Dave Stanfield about his own experiences working in Singapore, after years working in student affairs within the United States.

Dave Stanfield is Vice President of Student Affairs and Dean of Students at Yale-NUS College in Singapore. Dr. Stanfield oversees residential education, campus life, student services, career services, study abroad, intercultural engagement, and student well-being.

Since joining Yale-NUS in 2019, Dr. Stanfield has engaged deeply with the Yale-NUS student body to enhance student life and create an innovative and distinctive residential curriculum. His leadership of the student affairs team has centered around fostering a sense of belonging for all students, enhancing student support structures, and enabling collaboration across campus units. Dr. Stanfield has extensive student affairs experience in the context of international higher education partnerships, as he also served on Carnegie Mellon University’s campus in Doha, Qatar (2006-2011), where he was Director of Student Activities and First-Year Programmes.

While pursuing his Ph.D. in Higher Education Administration, Dr. Stanfield was a research assistant at the Boston College Center for International Higher Education; his research focused on innovative transnational higher education strategies and organizational structures. After completing his doctorate, with an appreciation for the importance of international educational research and assessment, Dr. Stanfield joined the Council of International School (CIS) in Leiden, Netherlands, as Head of Research and Development. He helped develop CIS’ International Accreditation protocol and created resources to support member universities in achieving their international student recruitment goals.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field, we interviewed Jennifer Hamilton about her experiences working in student affairs and leading efforts to connect Canadian student affairs professionals together.

Jennifer Hamilton is the first-ever Executive Director of the Canadian Association of College & University Student Services. CACUSS is a non-profit association with over 1400 members in Canada. Jennifer has served in this staff leadership role of Canada’s student affairs association since 2011.

Jennifer has a BA in International Development/Agriculture from the University of Guelph. She has a MS from Colorado State University in Student Affairs in Higher Education. She is a current student in the PhD Program in Higher Education at OISE, University of Toronto. Her research is a grounded theory study to understand how Canadian Student affairs professional staff develop competencies.

Prior to joining CACUSS, she worked as a student affairs professional for 15 years in the areas of leadership development and student life, career services, academic advising, orientation programs and international student services. She worked at OCAD University, University of Toronto and Portland State University. She lives in Toronto, Canada with her partner and 2 children aged 14 and 16.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field, we interviewed Omneya Badr about her own experiences working in student affairs as well as directing efforts of student affairs professionals working in the Middle East, North Africa, and South Asia.

Omneya Badr is the current director of MENASA NASPA. MENASA is the Middle East, North Africa, and South Asia region of NASPA. She is a Student Affairs enthusiast who sees a huge potential for growth in the region. Omneya Badr holds the position of Senior Academic Advisor at Qatar University and previously was a lecturer and faculty advisor at NYIT Bahrain (New York Institute of Technology). Omneya has gained a culturally diverse experience studying, teaching, and working for over 20 years in the USA, UK, Egypt, Bahrain, and Qatar.

Omneya is a frequent presenter at NASPA and NACADA conferences. Her research interest is culturally based on Academic Advising, branding higher education, MENA First-generation students, cross-cultural communication, Student Success initiatives, FYE, and education as a soft power.

Omneya holds an MBA from the University of Bath – UK, a Certificate of Entrepreneurial & Small Business Operation from the Academy of Arts, California - USA, and a BA in Management from the American University in Cairo - Egypt. In addition, she recently acquired a Diversity, Equity and Inclusion in the Workplace Certificate from the University of South Florida - USA. As an educator, Omneya is highly interested in developing professional development venues in the MENA regions and encouraging Student Affairs Professionals to research and share knowledge.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we interviewed Dr. Raphael X. Moffett about his own experiences working in China after many years working in student affairs within the United States.

A native of Washington State, Dr. Raphael X. Moffett began his career in higher education working in Residence Life at Clark Atlanta University in 2002. He was inspired by working with college students and made the decision to pursue a career in student affairs. During the past 20 years, he has gained valuable experience serving in progressive leadership roles at Clark Atlanta University, Georgia State University, Morehouse College, and Trinity University. Known as an inspirational leader, Dr. Moffett has also served in senior leadership positions as the Vice President for Student Services at Texas Southern University in Houston, Texas and the Vice President for Student Affairs at Langston University in Langston, Oklahoma, and Dean of Students at Duke Kunshan University in Kunshan, China.

Currently, Dr. Moffett serves as the Chief Student Affairs Officer at the Schwarzman Scholars program located at Tsinghua University in Beijing, China. In this role, he is responsible for strategic initiatives that support the holistic development of graduate students from 32 countries. Dr. Moffett is also the Founder of Inspire YOUniversity, LLC, a consultancy supporting universities, sports teams, corporations, faith-based organizations, and non-profit organizations to become the best versions of themselves.

Dr. Moffett is a visionary that is committed to serving others by providing opportunities for students and staff to define success for themselves and pursue their goals. He is known in higher education as being a servant leader who is personable and values driven. He believes every person has the ability to achieve professional success and personal growth with the proper guidance and support.

Dr. Moffett earned a B.A. in English and Education from Washington State University. He earned a M.Ed. and Ed.D. in Educational Leadership from Clark Atlanta University. In his leisure time, he enjoys spending time with his wife and son, visiting family, reading, watching and playing basketball, calligraphy, music production, trying new restaurants, and traveling.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we interviewed Melanie Buford and Dr. Michael J. Stebleton, editor and authors of an upcoming new book Mapping the Future of Undergraduate Career Education.

Melanie Buford is an Author, Career Consultant, and Teaching Specialist for the Leadership Minor at the University of Minnesota - Twin Cities. She is lead editor of the recent release Mapping the Future of Undergraduate Career Education - an international effort to evolve career preparation in higher education . Her work has been featured on EdSurge, Puttylike, Truity, and Happen to Your Career. Melanie received the Ralph W. Tyler Award for outstanding research and the Kenneth B. Hoyt Career Education Practitioner Award for innovative practice. She earned her Ed.M. in Human Development from Harvard Graduate School of Education.

Dr. Michael J. Stebleton is Professor of Higher Education in the College of Education and Human Development (CEHD) at the University of Minnesota-Twin Cities, USA. His research and teaching interests focus on college student development and career development with an emphasis on the undergraduate experience and student success. His work has appeared in numerous venues including: Journal of College Student Development, Journal of College and Character, Journal of Career Development, and The Career Development Quarterly. Stebleton is a Merit Award recipient through the National Career Development Association (NCDA). Stebleton is co-editor of the recently published book, Mapping the Future of Undergraduate Career Education, by Routledge (2023).

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Happy 2023! We are very excited to be preparing for Season 8 of SA Voices from the Field. This season we will be doing something different. Take a listen while Jill Creighton and Chris Lewis talk about the new season.

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We are currently on a break as we prepare for Season 8 of SA Voices From the Field that will be coming in February 2023. We look forward to speaking with you again soon and look forward to new topics, new guests, and more. In the meantime, have a question for the show? Email us at savoices@naspa.org!

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we brought back Dr. Amelia Parnell as we talked about the outcome of the midterm elections and the future of public policy as we end our public policy season.

Amelia Parnell is vice president for research and policy at NASPA – Student Affairs Administrators in Higher Education, where she leads many of the Association’s scholarly and advocacy-focused activities. Amelia’s policy and practitioner experiences include prior roles in association management, legislative policy analysis, internal audit, and TRIO programs. Amelia Parnell writes and frequently speaks about topics related to student affairs, college affordability, student learning outcomes, leadership in higher education, and institutions’ use of data and analytics. She is the author of the new book; You Are a Data Person: Strategies for Using Analytics on Campus, and host of the new podcast, Speaking of College. Amelia currently serves on the board of directors for EDUCAUSE and is an advisor to several other higher education organizations. She holds a Ph.D. in higher education from Florida State University and masters and bachelor’s degrees in business administration from Florida A & M University.

Amelia Parnell is also the host of the Speaking of College Podcast. Speaking of College is a show that answers common questions about college. The episodes are a good fit for anyone who is curious about how college works and how to navigate the college environment.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we interviewed Andy Cofino and Em Huang from the Gender and Sexuality KC about LGBTQ+ Public Policy.

Andy Cofino (he/him) is a passionate consultant and educator with over a decade’s worth of experience in higher education. He is currently the Director for the UCLA LGBTQ Campus Resource Center after previously serving roles at Princeton University, New York University, and on the Executive Board of the National Consortium of Higher Education LGBT Resource Professionals. Along with Em Huang, Andy is the Co-Core Member for Trans Inclusion of the NASPA Gender and Sexuality Knowledge Community. Andy also runs his own independent consulting firm serving clients across industries as a strategist, advisor, and facilitator of equity, diversity, & inclusion efforts related to gender and sexuality. Andy holds a BA in English and Women’s and Gender Studies with a minor in Italian from Pace University; a MA in LGBTQ Studies, Social Justice, and Creative Writing from New York University; and is currently pursuing his MBA at the UCLA Anderson School of Management.

Em Huang is the Director of LGBTQ+ Advancement & Equity / Associate Director of the Gender Equity Resource Center, focusing on LGBTQ+ communities, issues, policies, and initiatives at the University of California, Berkeley. They received their M.Ed in Higher Education and Student Affairs Administration from the University of Vermont. Their focus in higher education and student affairs is on student support and advocacy, particularly in issues of gender, sexuality, and racial, ethnic, and cultural identity through a multicultural and intersectional lens. Their goal is to be a passionate advocate and support for queer, trans, and BIPOC students, and to engage and educate institutions of higher education about the issues experienced by these communities as a whole.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we interviewed Jeremy Young on what is happening throughout the US currently as it comes to legislating CRT.

Jeremy C. Young is the senior manager of free expression and education at PEN America, where he advances PEN America’s advocacy for academic freedom in higher education and against educational censorship in colleges, universities, and K-12 schools. A former history professor and director of the Institute of Politics and Public Affairs at Utah Tech University, Young holds a Ph.D. in U.S. history from Indiana University and is the author of The Age of Charisma: Leaders, Followers, and Emotions in American Society, 1870-1940 (Cambridge University Press, 2017).

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we interviewed Amy Ellen Duke-Benfield and Gina Plata-Nino about SNAP and TANF benefits for College Students.

Amy Ellen Duke-Benfield is Managing Director of Policy and Advocacy at Higher Learning Advocates. She is an advocate with over 20 years of leadership in developing and expanding state and federal policies to increase postsecondary access and success for students with low incomes and students of color.

Prior to joining Higher Learning Advocates, Amy Ellen was a Senior Director for Advocacy and Policy at the Hope Center for College, Community, and Justice. Amy Ellen also served as a Senior Policy Analyst at the Center for Law and Social Policy for over 15 years, where she analyzed and advocated for federal and state higher education policies to better serve adults with low incomes and others. She developed and advocated for a comprehensive student aid framework that combines financial aid, public benefits, and refundable tax credits to increase postsecondary access for low-income students. She also directed the Benefits Access for College Completion initiative to increase access to public benefits and financial aid for low-income students at community and technical colleges across the country.

Gina Plata-Nino has devoted much of her early professional life to addressing the many causes of hunger and ensuring that low-income individuals never have to place other needs above feeding themselves or their families.

She’s an attorney at the Massachusetts Law Reform Institute. She serves as a lead advocate on the Hunger Free Campus legislative campaign and helps address related food security issues among college students. She also assists on targetted help on passage of current legislation working with the Central MA Legislative delegation. She works with state and federal agencies to eliminate systemic barriers to food access. She leads the Central MA SNAP Coalition and the Worcester Food Security Task Force, regional coalitions focused on reducing food insecurity. Prior to joining MLRI she managed the Food Security Project - a collaboration of the Worcester County Food Bank and Central West Justice Center. She has presented at both state and national conferences on the importance of equity in food security. She utilizes her skills as a vehicle for motivating and supporting lasting changes that bring about social justice and build grassroots leadership in her community. She is a graduate of Northeastern University School of Law and began her career by clerking at the Massachusetts State Appeals Court and the United States Court of Appeals for the first circuit.

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This week we are taking a break to celebrate Thanksgiving and Indigenous Peoples Day. We will be back again next week with another great episode as we talk about food insecurity and SNAP and TANF benefits and policies imapacting our campuses and students around these issues.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we interviewed Art Coleman about Race Based Admissions and where we are as a country when it comes to this ever-changing landscape.

Art Coleman is a Managing Partner and co-founder of EducationCounsel LLC. He provides policy, strategic, and legal counseling services to national non-profit organizations, postsecondary institutions, school districts and state agencies throughout the country, where he addresses issues associated with:

student access, diversity, inclusion, expression, and success;
faculty diversity, inclusion and expression; and
institutional quality, accountability and accreditation.

Mr. Coleman previously served as Deputy Assistant Secretary of the U.S. Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights, where, in the 1990s, he led the Department’s development of the Department’s Title VI policy on race-conscious financial aid, as well as OCR’s first comprehensive Title IX sexual harassment policy guidance.

Mr. Coleman was instrumental in the establishment of the College Board's Access and Diversity Collaborative (ADC) in 2004, which he has helped lead since its inception. He was also a member of a thought leadership panel that helped inform the development of the January 2022 report, Toward a More Equitable Future for Postsecondary Access, published by NACAC and NASFAA. With a focus on issues of diversity and higher education admissions, he has also authored amicus briefs in: Grutter v. Bollinger (2003) & Gratz v. Bollinger (2003); Fisher v. University of Texas at Austin (I and II, 2013 and 2016); and in the 2022 SFFA v. Harvard/UNC cases. His advocacy work also includes the development of a successful federal amicus strategy and numerous federal appellate briefs on behalf of transgender students throughout the United States.

Mr. Coleman is currently an adjunct professor at the University of Southern California’s Rossier School of Education, where he teaches a masters level course on enrollment management law and policy. In 2022, he received the Rossier School’s Adjunct Faculty Teaching Award, with the recognition that as “one of the nation’s leading legal voices supporting access, diversity and inclusion,” he “does a masterful job at simplifying complex concepts and highlighting the complexities of seemingly simple concepts.”

He has testified before the U.S. Senate and the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights. He is a current Executive Committee member of the Board of Directors of the National Council for State Authorization Reciprocity Agreements (NC-SARA); and he is a past member of the Board of Directors of GLSEN (the Gay, Lesbian, Straight Education Network); the Lab School of Washington, which serves students with learning differences; and a past chairman of the Board of Directors of the Institute for Higher Education Policy.

A former litigator, Mr. Coleman is a 1984 honors graduate of Duke University School of Law and a 1981 Phi Beta Kappa graduate of the University of Virginia.

Art Coleman shared a few links to examples of things he mentioned in the podcast:

https://educationcounsel.com/?publication=engaging-campus-stakeholders-on-enrollment-issues-associated-with-student-diversity-a-communications-primer

https://professionals.collegeboard.org/pdf/playbook-understanding-race-neutral-strategies.pdf

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we interviewed Victoria Ballerini and Christian Penichet-Paul about updates to DACA and on undocumented students.

Victoria Ballerini is a researcher and consultant with expertise on tuition-free and open access higher education, and issues that lie at the intersection of immigration and higher education policy. Dr. Ballerini has over 15 years of experience in higher education policy, practice, and research through various roles in government, postsecondary institutions, and policy research organizations. She holds a master’s degree in Social Policy with concentration in Education from the Latin American Faculty of Social Sciences, and a Ph.D. in Higher and Postsecondary Education from New York University.

Christian Penichet-Paul is the Director of the Higher Ed Immigration Portal & State Policy at the Presidents’ Alliance for Higher Education and Immigration. Most recently, Christian was the Policy and Advocacy Manager at the National Immigration Forum. Christian’s expertise includes providing federal and state policy analysis and leading legislative efforts, and developing strategic messaging and products. Christian graduated from Texas State University and earned his master’s in American Government from Georgetown University.

Victoria shared a few links to examples of things she wrote on this topic:

https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2020/03/03/college-promise-programs-can-make-college-more-affordable-undocumented-students https://www.researchforaction.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/RFAUndocumentedStudentsandPromise2020-FINAL.pdf https://www.higheredimmigrationportal.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Ballerini-and-Feldblum-Article-March-2021-AJES-1.pdf Please subscribe to SA Voices from the Field on your favorite podcasting device and share the podcast with other student affairs colleagues!

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we interviewed Justin Draeger, President & CEO of the National Association of Student Financial Aid Administrators. Today we talked to Justin about all of the upcoming Financial Aid and EFC changes that are coming in the next few years.

Justin Draeger serves as the primary voice of NASFAA and as the liaison between the association members, the U.S. Congress, federal agencies, and the media. Most of Justin's career has been devoted to assisting disadvantaged populations in achieving their educational goals and better their communities. Since 2002, Justin has been engaged in either administering, interpreting, communicating, or developing student financial aid policy. His prior experiences include working as a financial aid director, regulatory and policy analyst, and spokesperson. He has held senior positions overseeing government relations, communications, and policy work. Justin has testified in multiple Congressional hearings on student financial aid, college access, student loan policy, and the interplay between federal agencies and colleges and universities. He is frequently quoted in the press and has appeared on The Today Show on NBC, National Public Radio, APM's Marketplace, Fox Business News, CNBC, and C-SPAN, and is often quoted in national news outlets. Justin serves on several boards of directors that promote health and education. He earned his undergraduate from Brigham Young University and his MBA from Baker College. Justin lives in Fairfax, VA, with his wife and three children.

In the interview Justin regarding FAFSA simplification and federal methodology and you can find that resource here: https://www.nasfaa.org/fafsa_simplification

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we are taking a slight break as we get even more interviews read for you! We will be back with another great episode next week!

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we interviewed Courtney Bullard, Founder of Institutional Compliance Solutions about the many Title IX changes that are coming about and their impact on your own college campus.

Courtney Bullard has over ten years of experience representing institutions and organizations in matters involving sexual misconduct, including 8 years as a University system attorney. As in-house counsel, she served as a trusted advisor to the Chancellor, Vice Chancellors, Athletic Director, Director of Office and Equity and Diversity, Title IX Coordinator, Provost and other top level administrators on all legal matters affecting the institution. Her breadth of knowledge and familiarity with the unique aspects of a college campus provide a distinctive approach to partnering with institutions and school districts to assist with their legal needs. She excels in advising clients on all aspects of institutional compliance, including Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972 and the Violence Against Women Act Reauthorization amendments to the Jeanne Clery Act, and specializes in providing legal advice to institutions during sexual misconduct, stalking and relationship violence investigations. Courtney regularly provides Title IX and Clery training to organizations, attorneys, institutions and school districts, serves as an external investigator into allegations of sexual misconduct, and provides expert witness testimony on matters dealing with institutional response to allegations of sexual misconduct, bullying and hazing in litigation.

Courtney is the host of The Law & Higher Ed Podcast and is nationally recognized for her contributions to news media, including the Chronicle of Higher Education, Inside Higher Ed, and VICE news on HBO. Courtney is the creator of Title IX University, an on-line digital platform that provides Title IX training.

Courtney received her undergraduate degree from Indiana University in 1998. She graduated from the University of Memphis School of Law in 2001, where she served on the law review as a Comments Editor. Prior to serving as Associate General Counsel for the University of Tennessee, she worked for Baker, Donelson, Bearman & Caldwell and Husch & Eppenberger. Courtney also teaches Business Law as an Adjunct Professor for the University of Tennessee, Chattanooga, and Southern New Hampshire University. Courtney is a member of NACUA and Workplace Investigations Group and is recognized as Lawyer of Distinction in Higher Education.

Courtney has two girls, Charlotte (9) and Campbell (13), and two bonus children, Austin (17) and Tyler (14). In her free time, you will find her with her husband, Todd, cheering on their children in all of their events and activities.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we interviewed Dr. Scott Peska, Dr. Katie L. Treadwell, Dr. Joseph Pickering about their recent article in NASPA's Leadership Exchange magazine about Concealed Carry on Campus.

Dr. Scott Peska serves as the Assistant Vice President of Student Services and Alumni Relations at Waubonsee Community College in Sugar Grove, IL where he oversees a number of Student Development departments, serves as the Chair of the Campus Assessment Team, and is a Deputy Title IX Officer. Dr. Peska previously worked at Northern Illinois University, the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, and Illinois State University. In NASPA, Dr. Peska is actively part of the Campus Safety and Violence Prevention Knowledge Community, specifically with the Enough is Enough campaign against violence. He serves as a reviewer for the Journal of Student Affairs Research and Practice and has previously served as the Region IV-E Public Policy Division Representative, Region IV-E Community College Division Representative, and a member of the 2017 Annual Conference Planning Committee.

Dr. Katie L. Treadwell researches and writes extensively about the aftermath of university crises and the subsequent experiences of campus first responders. Katie developed her professional identity in higher education through roles in Oklahoma City, Waco, Texas, and New York City, three cities deeply altered by terrorism and the aftermath of disaster. Inspired by her own experience with campus and community tragedy, Katie primarily researches the personal experiences of higher education administrators who encounter high-profile campus disasters. Her research portfolio includes in-depth investigations of intentional violence, terrorism, natural disasters, and accidents that forever change a campus community. Katie’s work appears in the Chronicle of Higher Education, Encyclopedia of Strategic Leadership and Management, Journal of Student Affairs Research and Practice, About Campus, and other higher education publications. She frequently consults with campus leaders on issues of preventing violence and improving campus safety. In collaboration with higher education leaders across the country, Katie co-edited Crisis, Compassion, and Resiliency in Student Affairs. Katie currently serves as Assistant Vice Provost for Student Affairs at the University of Kansas, as well as chair of the NASPA Campus Safety and Violence Prevention Knowledge Community.

Dr. Joseph Pickering is a student affairs professional with 15 years of experience in the field. His ongoing research portfolio focuses on the impact of concealed carry legislation on Texas universities and colleges, particularly campus leaders’ and law enforcement perspectives. Dr. Pickering is a triple Gator, graduating with his B.A. in History, Masters in Student Personnel in Higher Education, and his Doctorate in Higher Education Administration, where his research focused on the impact of concealed carry legislation in the state of Texas. Dr. Pickering comes from a family of Law Enforcement officers, his grandfather helped start the police department at Rutgers University, his father served as a Military Police Officer and a police officer. Dr. Pickering is also an alumnus of Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, the site of a tragic 2018 Valentine’s Day shooting. Dr. Pickering remains connected with students and fellow alumni from Stoneman Douglas and continues to support a variety of efforts to help schools and institutions learn from and better prepare for mass casualty/safety incidents.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we interviewed Dr. Jessica Higgs about some of the ramifications of affirming healthcare for students following the overturn of Roe v. Wade.

Jessica Higgs is a Family Medicine physician with a certificate of additional qualification in Sports Medicine. She completed medical school at Southern Illinois University School of Medicine and Family Medicine Residency at the University of Illinois College of Medicine in Peoria. She completed her Sports Medicine fellowship at the University of Pittsburgh. Since 2008 Higgs has been the director of Bradley University Health Services, a private university of about 5000 students, and team physician at Bradley since 2011. Dr. Higgs is currently serving as President of the American College Health Association after serving 4 years as a member at large to the board and two years as vice-president. She also currently serves as chair of the Sports Medicine Committee for the Missouri Valley Conference.

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This is season seven, public policy in action, where we will explore public policy issues impacting higher education today and how this will impact the work that you do on a daily basis. This week on SA Voices From the Field we interviewed Kimberly Steed-Page about some of the unique issues that student parents are dealing with as well as looking at policy and best practice concerns when it comes to the needs of these students.

A higher education professional with over 20 years of experience, Kimberly Steed-Page believes that when student parents succeed, their children and families succeed. Diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging center her work at MSU. As director of the MSU Student Parent Resource Center, she is dedicated to helping college students, children and families reach their greatest potential. Her goals as director are to increase campus and community awareness of student families and their experiences at MSU, expand services and support for student families, improve outreach to area schools and teen parents regarding college opportunities; and to engage student families in advocacy. Kim earned her bachelor’s degree in social work from the University of Texas El Paso and master’s in social work from Michigan State University. She is also a clinical faculty member in the MSU School of Social Work and teaches a variety of social work courses. Kim balances work with raising two boys, Bryson age 8, and Jayden, 17 with her husband, Rodney.

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This is season seven, public policy in action, where we will explore public policy issues impacting higher education today and how this will impact the work that you do on a daily basis. This week on SA Voices From the Field we interviewed Beth Devonshire, J.D., and Diana Ali and talked about some of the basics as it comes to Public Policy and how this intersects with the work that we do every day.

Beth Devonshire, J.D. is an experienced student affairs professional with expertise in student conduct, Title IX, threat assessment teams, policy development, trainings for various constituencies, and the impact legislative and legal decisions have on higher education. From 2006-2018, Ms. Devonshire worked as the Associate Dean of Students at UMass Boston, the Director of Community Standards at Bridgewater State University, and the Director of Community Standards at Stonehill College. In these roles, Ms. Devonshire was charged with oversight of the student conduct systems, membership in CARE/BIT teams, serving as the Deputy Title IX Coordinator, and drafting policies and procedures related to students. Prior to her work in higher education, Beth served as a law clerk for the Justices of the Superior Court in Massachusetts and in multiple roles at the Massachusetts State House.

Ms. Devonshire has been an Associate with D. Stafford & Associates (DSA) since 2012 and she joined as a full-time consultant in August of 2018. In this role, Beth works with institutions on issues involving Title IX, Clery Act, threat assessment, and other compliance related issues; and advises on policy and procedures, conducts trainings, participates in investigations, reviews enforcement practices of campus law enforcement, and serves in interim roles. Ms. Devonshire also speaks on a variety of other topics including legislative and legal issues impacting higher education including FERPA, Clery, and Alcohol and other Drug Prevention.

Ms. Devonshire is a faculty member in New England College’s Doctorate of Education Program and the Higher Education Administration program at Bridgewater State University. Additionally, Ms. Devonshire serves on the Public Policy Division for NASPA, and is also the former Massachusetts Public Policy Liaison for MA NASPA. Beth also served as the Director of the Legislative Committee for the Association for Student Conduct Administrators (ASCA) for two years.

Ms. Devonshire is a member of the Massachusetts Bar. She is a graduate of Stonehill College with a degree in English and Secondary Education and holds a J.D. from Suffolk University School of Law. She is also a trained mediator.

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Welcome back to SA Voices from the Field for Season 7.

This is season seven, public policy in action, where we will explore public policy issues impacting higher education today and how this will impact the work that you do on a daily basis. This week on SA Voices From the Field we interviewed Dr. Brent Marsh and Dr. Jeanna Mastrodicasa, the current and past chair of NASPA's Public Policy Division. We explore public policy and important topics that are currently impacting all of our work!

Brent arrived at the University of Mississippi in August 2019, being honored to join the UM community as Assistant Vice Chancellor for Student Affairs and Dean of Students. Prior to his arrival at UM, Dr. Marsh served for five years as Vice President for Student Affairs at Rogers State University, overseeing numerous programs and services that promoted student engagement and success. Before his time at RSU, Marsh served for 10 years at Howard Payne University in central Texas in three successive student affairs leadership roles, culminating his time there as Vice President for Student Life and Dean of Students. Marsh earned bachelors and masters degrees at Kansas State University and a doctorate in higher education administration from Bowling Green State University. His earliest professional experiences were in student housing at two universities in Abilene, Texas, serving there between academic stints at K-State and BGSU.

Dr. Marsh is actively involved in NASPA where he recently served as Director of the Public Policy Division from 2019-2021, and currently serves as member-at-large. Prior to this role, Brent served as Coordinator of Region Finances for the IV-West region from 2017-2019, while simultaneously sitting on the Small Colleges & Universities Division advisory board as Public Policy Liaison, which also placed him on the Public Policy Division’s leadership team. From 2015 to 2017, Marsh served a two-year term as the Student-Athlete Knowledge Community chair.

Dr. Jeanna Mastrodicasa is the Associate Vice President for Operations at the University of Florida Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences (UF/IFAS), where she manages budget, facilities, business operations, conferences and institutes, and compliance for the land-grant mission of the university. UF/IFAS has more than 4,000 employees across Florida, $450 million in annual expenditures, and more than 4 million built gross square feet of facilities.

Dr. Mastrodicasa is currently the national chair for NASPA’s Public Policy Division, serving a term on the national NASPA board from March 2021-2023 supporting higher education administration. In summer 2022, she will be participating in the HERS Summer Institute, which is an intensive leadership program for women in higher education.

She is also on several local boards in the community, including the Girl Scouts of Gateway Council, Family Promise of Gainesville, the Gainesville Police Advisory Council, Friends of Susan B. Anthony, and the Alachua County ½ Cent Sales Tax Oversight Board.

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Welcome back to SA Voices from the Field for Season 7.

This is season seven, public policy in action where we will explore public policy issues impacting higher education today and how this will impact the work that you do on a daily basis. Through this season we will not only introduce you to issues but also allow you to see practically how you can put this knowledge to work for you to help you be a stronger student affairs professional.

Join Jill Creighton and Chris Lewis as they discuss some things they are looking forward to in the upcoming season!

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we interviewed Dr. Jill Dunlap and Adriana Alicial-Rodriguez. We continue our discussion on the 50th anniversary of TITLE IX and delve deeper into this with two amazing colleagues that have experienced much with the issue.

Jill Dunlap is senior director for research, policy, and civic engagement at NASPA–Student Affairs Administrators in Higher Education. Prior to joining NASPA, she worked closely with college student survivors of sexual violence for more than 14 years at three different campuses. Her current body of research is focused on a range of social justice topics, including free speech, police reform, racial justice, and guns on campus. She holds a PhD in political science and public administration from Northern Illinois University, and regularly teaches political science, public administration, and public policy at various institutions in the Chicago area.

Adriana Alicea-Rodriguez serves as the Associate Vice President for University Compliance Services and Title IX Coordinator at The University of Texas at Austin. Before joining University Compliance Services, Adriana worked in the Office of the Dean of Students as the Associate Director for Student Judicial Services from 2013 to 2015, and as the Director of Title IX Training and Investigations from 2015 to 2019 at UT Austin. Previously, Adriana worked at The University of Texas at San Antonio (UTSA), Texas A&M University, and The University of Vermont.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we interviewed Dr. Tammy Crawford. As an undergraduate she was a member of the women's rowing club and became a volunteer coach for one year and this experience changed her entire career path. She became the volunteer coach in 1985 and within a year was hired on as the full time coach. In 1990 she became the first varsity coach of the women's rowing team and transitioned the team from a club status toa Division 1 varsity status. In 2002, she retired from coaching to pursue her PhD in higher education and has been a professor at Washington State University in the Sports Management program since 2007. Please subscribe to SA Voices from the Field on your favorite podcasting device and share the podcast with other student affairs colleagues!

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we interviewed Dr. Mordecai Brownlee about his journey to become the President of the Community College of Aurora.

Dr. Mordecai Ian Brownlee became the sixth president of the Community College of Aurora (Colorado) on August 2, 2021. With campuses in Aurora and Denver, CCA is a Minority Serving Institution (MSI) and Hispanic-Serving institution (HSI) providing instruction to over 10,600 students throughout its 350-square mile service area. Prior to his presidential appointment, President Brownlee served as the vice president for student success at St. Philip's College, the only college in the nation federally designated as both a historically Black college
(HBCU) and a Hispanic-serving institution (HSI), located in San Antonio, Texas. During his tenure as vice president, Dr. Brownlee led St. Philip’s to record enrollment of over 13,500 students and the college’s four largest degree and certificate awarding classes in its 124-year history.

One of the youngest presidents in the country at 37 years old, Dr. Brownlee continues his work as a higher education columnist for
EdSurge and a writer for several other publications. In 2020, Dr. Brownlee was featured by EdTech Magazine as one of the 30 most interesting voices in higher education who are shaping the conversation around IT and EdTech. In 2022, Mordecai was featured by Diverse Issues in Higher Education Magazine as a “New School” leader representing the next generation of college presidents.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we interviewed Parag Mehta, Managing Director and President of the JPMorgan Chase PolicyCenter. He works with a team of experts who leverage the bank’s assets, insights, and expertise to develop and advance policy solutions that drive inclusive economic growth in the United States and around the world.

Prior to joining JPMC, he served as Senior Vice President and Executive Director of the Mastercard Center for Inclusive Growth, the philanthropic hub of the company.

Parag previously served as Chief of Staff and Senior Advisor to the 19th Surgeon General of the United States, Dr. Vivek Murthy. Parag also spent more than four years directing communications for a civil rights agency in the U.S. Department of Labor and served on Barack Obama’s 2008 presidential transition team as a liaison to the Asian American and Pacific Islander communities and to LGBTQ+ Americans.

Parag earned a Master’s degree in Public Administration from the Maxwell School at Syracuse University and a B.A. in Plan II Honors from The University of Texas at Austin. He and his husband Vaibhav Jain are currently petitioning the Delhi High Court in India for recognition of their marriage in a landmark case which could pave the way for marriage equality in the world’s largest democracy.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we interviewed Dr. Danita Brown-Young. Dr. Danita M. Brown Young is currently the Vice Chancellor for Student Affairs at the
University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. Before moving to Champaign, she served as
Vice Provost for Student Affairs and Dean of Students at the University of Minnesota,
Twin Cities. Prior to that position, she worked in student affairs at Purdue University,
including serving as the youngest and first African American (and first African American
woman) Dean of Students at Purdue. Dr. Brown Young holds a B.A. in sociology from
Kent State University, an M.A. in community counseling from Loyola University Chicago,
and earned her Ph.D. in higher education administration from Ohio University. Dr.
Brown Young is a member of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.; Links, Incorporated,
NASPA; and ACPA. She was awarded the NASPA Pillar of the Profession award in
2021. She is currently serving as NASPA Board Chair.

With over 20 years of experience in student affairs in higher education, Dr. Brown
Young is an accomplished ambassador for students, and understands the critical role
student affairs must play in successfully meeting the land-grant promises of educational access and opportunity to help create a more socially just society.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we bring you the third episode of our conference recap. In this episode we bring you the voices of about 50 professionals who attended the NASPA Annual Conference as they answer the question: 1) What is one thing that the student affairs profession must do to evolve? Special thanks to all of the professionals who shared their voices with us. If you have an interest in sharing your voice or ideas with us about a future podcast, email us at savoices@naspa.org

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we bring you the second episode of our conference recap. In this episode we bring you the voices of about 50 professionals who attended the NASPA Annual Conference as they answer the questions: 1) Why did you attend this year's conference? 2) What makes NASPA the right professional home for you? Special thanks to all of the professionals who shared their voices with us. If you have an interest in sharing your voice or ideas with us about a future podcast, email us at savoices@naspa.org

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we interviewed Dr. Mary Gonzalez, a current state legislator in Texas and we have an amazing conversation with her about her own journey from student affairs to the state legislature.

This was a up close, live, in person interview so the audio is different than usual as we were in a large hall, but the information shared was very revealing and important in the current climate that Dr. Gonzalez finds herself in within Texas.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we interviewed Romando Nash, JD, Associate Vice President for Student Life Services at the University of Nevada Reno. We talk to Romando today about his journey through student affairs but also about how his start as a JD informed his practice.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we interviewed Dr. Talea Drummer-Ferrell. She is the Assoiate Vice President of Student Affairs and Dean of Students at Kent State University. She has been involved in many aspects student affairs. Throughout her career her focus has been on advocacy, leadership, academics, diversity and the empowerment of the indivudual student. We have a wonderful conversation with her today about her career and more.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we interviewed Catlin Roberts. She is at the University of Oregon as the Director of Fraternity and Sorority Life. Today we talked to her about Fraternity and Sorority life and her professional journey into this field. We also talk to Catlin about being a domestic violence survivor and how she uses her voice and experience to give voice to others. Please subscribe to SA Voices from the Field on your favorite podcasting device and share the podcast with other student affairs colleagues!

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we interviewed Dr. Adam Cebulski. He is the Assistant Vice President for Student Engagement and Success and the Chief of Staff for the Division of Student Affairs at Southern Methogist University. Dr. Cebulski shares his experience as a professional who left the profession and who chose to return after working in the corporate world.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we interviewed Dr. Pamela Young, the Director of Community Engagement and Economic Development in the College of Arts and Science at the University of Alabama. Dr. Young shares the experiences that have brought her to being the person she is today! Please subscribe to SA Voices from the Field on your favorite podcasting device and share the podcast with other student affairs colleagues!

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we interviewed Dr. Kevin Stensberg, a first generation college student that has combined his experiences working in student affairs both within the United States and in China, Greece, Saudi Arabia and more. Dr. Stensberg shares the wealth of his experience with you today and explores much of what has helped him to achieve his personal and professional goals. Please subscribe to SA Voices from the Field on your favorite podcasting device and share the podcast with other student affairs colleagues!

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Welcome back to SA Voices from the Field for Season 6.

This is season six, on becoming we explore people within our field and the journey that they have been on to become who they are today as they impact the Student Affairs profession.

Join Jill Creighton and Chris Lewis as they discuss some things they are looking forward to in the upcoming season!

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SA Voices From the Field Season 5 has ended and we will be taking a break until February. We will be coming back in February 2022 with another great season! In the meantime, if you have any questions, thoughts or ideas, email us as: savoices@naspa.org .

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we interviewed Dr. Phil Covington and Dr. Sofia Chapman as we talk about supporting graduate and professional students. Dr. Covington talks about his experience working with medical students at the University of Nebraska Medical Center and Dr. Sofia Chapman shared her experiences in working with law students Texas Tech University School of Law. Both share valuable insights into working with this population of students and what we can do as professionals to better support them in the future.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we interviewed Anna Ortiz and John Hoffman and who recently wrote an article entitled: Supervision in the Field of Student Affairs - Promoting Talent Within the Profession in the Fall 2021 Leadership Exchange magazine. We explore issues about supervision within the profession and what we can do to better support talent on our own campuses and beyond.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field host Jill Creighton attended the Western Regional Conference and spoke to attendees about the new reality that they have been facing on their own campuses. Learn from them in this interactive episode.

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This week we are taking a break to celebrate Thanksgiving and Indigenous Peoples Day. We will be back again next week with another great episode as we talk to members attending the Western Regional Conference.

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This week on SA Voices From the Field we are speaking with Mamta Accapadi, chair of the 2022 NASPA Annual Conference. You will get a good feel for what is coming to this great professional development conference, but also things to expect and look forward to in March 2022.

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This week we are taking a break to celebrate veteran's day. We will be back again next week with our annual conference episode with the 2022 NASPA Conference Chair, Mamta Accapadi.

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are talking with Warrenetta Crawford Mann, Aesha L. Uqdah, and Barry A. Schreier from the American Council on Education (ACE) about a new article posted on the ACE blog called A Trauma-Informed Lens for Addressing Race-Based Incidents on Campus.

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are talking with Jonathan Fansmith from the American Council on Education (ACE). Jon was on the podcast in a previous season and today Jon talks to us about public service loan forgiveness (PSLF).

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are talking with Dr. Sarah Jones or the University of West Georgia about working with foster care and foster students. Originally we learned about Dr. Jones in a blog she wrote on the NASPA website entitled: Whether they identify or not we should support college students from foster care. In this episode, we talk about supporting foster students on campuses in our new reality and what your campus can do to advocate for these students.

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are celebrating the 100th episode of the podcast. We are talking with our own podcast producer Dr. Christopher Lewis who has been a part of the podcast since before the podcast started. We also are joined by Dr. Kevin Kruger, President and CEO of NASPA as we talk about the podcast's history and future.

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are talking with Dr. Kevin Daugherty and Tamara Herdener, J.D. as we talk about Crisis Management in a 24-7 space. We are talking about a brand new practice that is being innovated right now to support student in crisis after hours.

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are talking with Dr. Jaimie Hoffman and Dr. Tom Studdert of the Pivoting out of EDU podcast. In this episode, we have frank conversations about working in higher education and factors that may impact people staying in the profession or pivoting out of the profession.

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we join a large group of amazing podcasters in the student-affairs/higher education field as we all share what our podcasts are about and more. This episode was hosted by Dr. Keith Edwards of the Student Affairs NOW podcast. Listen and learn more about the many different podcasts that are out there, you may just find a new podcast to listen too!

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are talking with Karnell McConnell Black and Jaime Mendez of the Association for Orientation, Transition and Retention in Higher Education (NODA). Karnell McConnell Black is the current President of NODA and Jaime Mendez is the President-elect of NODA. We talk with them about NODA and about rethinking orientation, transition & retention in the new reality on campus.

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are talking with Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof, Vice President for Student Affairs at Ferris State University. Dr. Ward-Roof is also one of the Enrollment Management Knowledge Community Chairs. With a new year starting, today we are talking to Dr. Ward-Roof about the new reality for Enrollment Management across our college campuses.

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Welcome back to SA Voices from the Field for Season 5.

This is season five, our new reality and we are continuing our dialogue on COVID-19 impact on the Student Affairs profession.

Join Jill Creighton and Chris Lewis as they discuss some things they are looking forward to in the upcoming season!

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are talking with four amazing student affairs professionals that were at Kent State University during the tragedy that occurred 51 years ago on May 4, 1970.

Our guests today (including their roles during the tragedy) include:

Dr. Robert (Bob) E. Matson who served as the Vice President of Student Affairs
Dr. Dave Ambler who served as the Associate Vice President of Student Affairs and Dean of Residence Life
Dr. Ron Beer who served as the Executive Assistant to the President
Dr. Dick Bredemeier who served as Director of Student Activities

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are talking with Dr. Erica Eckert, Assistant Dean for Assessment and Accreditation at Kent State University as we reflect on the tragedy at Kent State University that occurred 51 years ago on May 4, 1970.

Learn more about Dr. Erica Eckert

Email: eeckert@kent.edu
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/erica-eckert-172a625/

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are talking with editors from NASPA's Journal of Student Affairs Research and Practice. Joining us today was Bridget Kelly, Associate Professor at the University of Maryland, Carry Kortegast, Associate Professor of Higher Education and Student Affairs at Northern Illinois University, and Thandi Sule, Associate Professor at Oakland University.

We have an open and frank conversation about what is happening with the journal, as well as what they are looking for in authors.

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are talking with the NASPA Veterans KC chairs, Crissann Hanes and Christine Black. Crissann Hanes is a US Marine Corp veteran and serves as a graduate advisor for the evening and online MBA students at Colorado State University. Christine Black, a veteran of the US Army who now serves as the Assistant Director for the Office of Equity and Diversity at the University of Scranton.

Today we explore the future of veterans affairs in higher education with these amazing guests.

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are talking with Dr. Ann Gansemer-Topf, Associate Professor in the School of Education at Iowa State University as we speak to her about the future of graduate prep programs in student affairs and the role of faculty in the profession.

Learn more about Dr. Ann Gansemer-Topf

Gansemer-Topf, associate professor in the School of Education, will serve as faculty fellow for scholarship of teaching and learning (SoTL). She will work to enhance CELT’s efforts around SoTL and assessment, including leadership of the SoTL Scholars program, and develop resources for departments to use for program evaluation.

Gansemer-Topf, who joined the faculty in 2012 after serving as Iowa State’s associate director of research for admissions, earned a bachelor’s degree in psychology from Loras College, Dubuque; and a master’s in higher education and Ph.D. in educational leadership and policy studies from Iowa State. Her research interests include assessment of student learning, effective pedagogy and student success.

Learn more from Ann Gansemer-Topf’s School of Education web profile.

You can reach Dr. Gansemer-Topf at her email - anngt@iastate.edu

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are bringing you a crossover episode between our podcast and CBO Speaks, a podcast of the National Association of College and University Business Officers. Today, we are speaking with Nicole Trufant, Vice President of Finance and Administration for the University of New England, and Gerald Hector, Vice President of Finance and Administration for Ithaca College.

About NACUBO

The National Association of College and University Business Officers (NACUBO) is a membership organization representing more than 1,700 colleges and universities across the country.

About CBO Speaks

What does it take to be a CBO at today's colleges and universities? What news and updates do they need to know to stay current? Hear thought leaders and experts explore issues and topics about the CBO role and what's in store for the future in this award-winning, interview-style podcast series.

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are talking with Dr. Erica Eckert, Assistant Dean for Assessment and Accreditation at Kent State University, and Dr. Josie Ahlquist, a digital engagement and leadership researcher, speaker, and author as we talk about the future of technology in higher education.

Both guests share their knowledge about the current and future states of technology on our campuses today and offer some best practices and ideas about what you can do to better situate your own campus to be technology-forward thinking when it comes to engaging with students and staff on campus.

Learn more about Dr. Erica Eckert

Email: eeckert@kent.edu
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/erica-eckert-172a625/

Learn more about Dr. Josie Ahlquist:

Website
Book: Digital Leadership in Higher Education: Purposeful Social Media in a Connected World
Twitter - https://twitter.com/josieahlquist

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Digital Leadership in Higher Education: Purposeful Social Media in a Connected World

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are talking with the 2021-22 NASPA Board Chair Dr. Julie Payne-Kirchmeier. Dr. Payne-Kirchmeier is not only the NASPA Board Chair but is also the Vice-President for Student Affairs at Northwestern University in Evanston, Illinois.

Today we spoke with Dr. Payne-Kirchmeier about NASPA, but also about the future of the association post-pandemic.

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are talking with Dr. Amelia Parnell, Vice President for Research and Policy with NASPA as we look at the future of policy and research in student affairs and higher education.

Amelia Parnell is vice president for research and policy at NASPA – Student Affairs Administrators in Higher Education, where she leads many of the Association’s scholarly and advocacy-focused activities. Amelia writes and speaks frequently about topics related to student affairs, college affordability, student learning outcomes, and institutions’ use of data and analytics. Amelia’s policy and practitioner experiences include prior roles in association management, legislative policy analysis, internal audit, and TRIO programs. Her research portfolio includes studies of leadership in higher education, with a focus on college presidents and vice presidents. She is the author of the forthcoming book, You Are a Data Person: Strategies for Using Analytics on Campus and a co-editor of the book, The Analytics Revolution in Higher Education: Big Data, Organizational Learning, and Student Success.

Amelia currently serves on the board of directors for EDUCAUSE and is an advisor to several other higher education organizations. She holds a Ph.D. in higher education from Florida State University and masters and bachelor’s degrees in business administration from Florida A & M University.

Dr. Parnell recommended the following books as her essential student affairs reads:

Square Pegs and Round Holes: Alternative Approaches to Diverse College Student Development Theory
The Analytics Revolution in Higher Education: Big Data, Organizational Learning, and Student Success

You can also review some of the reports that Dr. Amelia Parnell has worked on in her role at NASPA on the NASPA website.

If you want to reach out to Dr. Parnell she can be reached at: aparnell@naspa.org

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The Analytics Revolution in Higher Education: Big Data, Organizational Learning, and Student Success

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are talking with Jonathan Fansmith and Susan Spreitzler, Directors of Government Relations for ACE, the American Council on Education who are also hosts of the ACE podcast DOTEDU.

Each episode of dotEDU presents a deep dive into a major public policy issue impacting college campuses and students across the country. Hosts from ACE, joined by guest experts, lead you through thought-provoking conversations on topics such as campus free speech, diversity in admissions, college costs and affordability, and more.

If you want to reach out to the podcast you can tweet your suggestions, links, and questions to @ACEducation, or email podcast@acenet.edu.

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are talking with Dr. Daniel R. Wildcat, one of the NASPA annual conference keynote speakers for the 2021 NASPA annual conference.

Daniel R. Wildcat is a Yuchi member of the Muscogee Nation of Oklahoma. His service as teacher and administrator at Haskell spans 34 years. In 2013 he was the Gordon Russell visiting professor of Native American Studies at Dartmouth College. He has served as adjunct faculty for the Bloch School - UMKC for the past decade. In 1994 he helped form a partnership with the Hazardous Substance Research Center at Kansas State University to create the Haskell Environmental Research Studies (HERS) Center as a non-profit Native American research center.

Dr. Wildcat recommended the following book as his essential student affairs read: Power and Place: Indian Education in America

If you want to reach out to Dr. Wildcat he can be reached at: dwildcat@haskell.edu

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Power and Place: Indian Education in America

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are talking with Pam Agoyo, Director of American Indian Student Services and Special Assistant to the President for American Indian Affairs at the University of New Mexico and Dr. Jason Younker, Assistant Vice President and Advisor to the President on Sovereignty and Government to Government Relations at the University of Oregon as we talk to both of them on the current and future of tribal relations in higher education.

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are talking with Dr. Guy Palmer, the Jack & Jan Creighton Endowed Chair and Senior Director of Global Health at Washington State University as we talk about the future of COVID through the experience that he has had over the past 33 years at Washington State University and also in leading the COVID-19 efforts for the university.

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Welcome back to SA Voices from the Field for Season 4. Season 4 will cover Futurecasting for the student affairs profession and continuing dialogue on COVID-19's impact on the student affairs profession.

Join Jill Creighton and Chris Lewis as they discuss some things they are looking forward to in the upcoming season!

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are sharing a crossover episode with the Student Affairs NOW podcast.

Student Affairs NOW is is a podcast and weekly web show as well as a online learning community for thousands who work in, alongside, or adjacent to the field of higher education and student affairs.

Today we speak with Student Affairs NOW hosts Drs. Glenn DeGuzman, Susana Muñoz.

Dr. Glenn DeGuzman is the Associate Dean of Students from the University of California, Berkeley and Dr. Susanna Munoz who is the Associate Professor and Program Coordinator at Colorado State University.

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are talking with Kim Monteaux De Freitas, Director of Fraternity & Sorority Life at Ohio State University and Emily Perlow, Associate Dean of Students at Worcester Polytechnic Institute, co-chairs of the Fraternity and Sorority Knowledge Community within NASPA.

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are talking with writer, teacher, scholar and activist Dr. Simran Jeet Singh Today we talk to Dr. Simran Jeet Singh about faith, identity and national leadership.

You can reach him at:

Email:

Twitter
Instagram
Facebook

He is also the author of the children's book: Fauja Singh Keeps Going

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Fauja Singh Keeps Going: The True Story of the Oldest Person to Ever Run a Marathon

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are talking with Dr. Marisa Randazzo, CEO and founder of SIGMA. SIGMA Threat Management Associates is a team of leading experts in behavioral threat assessment and threat management. Today we talk to Dr. Randazzo about threat assessment in the digital age.

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are talking with Dr. Sarah Kutten, Director of Student Services at the University of Oregon in Portland about her fascination of the experience that students have as they navigate post-secondary experiences.

Her research explores how racism informs the adult identity development of black college students.

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are taking a break from an episode as we celebrate Thanksgiving during COVID-19. We wish you all the best this week and will see you all again with a new episode next week.

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are talking with Shannon Niedzwicki about working in career services, her doctoral work and personal obligations.

Shannon Niedzwicki is Assistant Director of Internships and Employment Development at the University of Toledo. She shares her experiences of balances her personal and professional identities as well as having to do this while fighting cancer. It is a powerful episode that you will not want to miss.

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are learning more about the NASPA Annual Conference from conference chair Michelle Murray and the NASPA Strategies Conference with Anondo Banerfee and Rose Rezai of the conference committee.

Professional Development is very important and this conference will open your eyes to the important work that is being done in preparation for the upcoming conferences that you will not want to miss.

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are speaking with Deana Waintraub Stafford. Deana Waintraub Stafford serves as associate director with the Center for First-generation Student Success, responsible for the Center's website presence, marketing and communication strategy, virtual professional development offerings, the nation's first recognition program First-gen Forward, and the National First-Generation College Celebration in partnership with the Council for Opportunity in Education.

Learn more about the Center for First Generation Success. To contact Deana you can email them at first-gencenter@naspa.org

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are speaking with Joseph Washington. Joseph is a Resident Hall Assistant Director at New York University where he oversees the community development, crisis response and policy enforcement of an 1100 bed upper classman residence hall.

We talk to Joseph about his experience leading a residence hall through a pandemic and the challenges that went along with that.

If you have questions for Joseph you can find out more about him on LinkedIn or email him at: joseph.washington@nyu.edu

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are speaking with Dr. Angela Batista, Chair of the NASPA Board of Directors and Vice President of Student Affairs and Institutional Diversity and Inclusion at Champlain College .

Batista actively serves as a national and international consultant and her service in professional organizations includes leadership roles in various organizations including serving as an executive officer on the Executive Committee of the Latino Caucus for the National Conference on Race and Ethnicity in Higher Education (NCORE) and various leadership roles in the Student Affairs Administrators in Higher Education Association, also known as NASPA. Batista served as the national Vice Chair and Chair for the NASPA Latinx/a/o Knowledge Community, a member of NASPA’s Equity and Inclusion Commission, the 2016 National Conference Leadership and Planning Team, and faculty for the NASPA Dungy Leadership Institute (DLI) and Escaleras Latinx/a/o professional institute, which she co-directed in 2018. She also supported the development of the NASPA Latin American and the Caribbean (NASPA LAC) Division, encompassing 41 countries.

Batista has received several honors and has been recognized nationally for her work in Student Affairs, Diversity, Equity and Social Justice. Batista was the recipient of the 2017 NASPA Latinx/a/o Knowledge Community (LKC) Service Award and the 2013 NASPA LKC Administrator of the Year Award. The University of Vermont established the Angela Batista Social Justice Award, awarded to an undergraduate student every year, in 1999.

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are sharing ways in which campuses are preparing to support students prior to and throughout the election period while allowing them to also find their voice. We are joined by the Chair and Vice-Chair of the Civic Learning and Democratic Engagement Knowledge Community, Amy Koeckes, Associate Director of Student Engagement at the University of Nevada, Reno and Spencer Long, Director of Student Leadership and Civic Engagement at the University of Illinois at Chicago.

We explore the upcoming election as well as how COVID-19 has impacted the processes and activities that they and students have done or typically would be doing in the period leading up to the election and how campuses continue to support students in these different times.

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This season on SA Voices from the Field we will be exploring leadership at all levels of our association and this week we are joined by Dr. Shawnte Elbert Associate Dean of Health and Wellness, Central Washington University and Ashley Hinton-Moncer, Director of Student Wellness at the University of Kentucky, co-chairs of the Wellness and Health Promotion Knowledge Community.

These guests both have worked hard to keep their campuses safe. We have a poignant conversation about what campuses have had to do to keep people safe during the time of COVID-19. Come and learn from these amazing professionals.

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Welcome to Season 3 of the SA Voices from the Field podcast. This season we will be exploring leadership at all levels of our association and this week we are joined by Dr. Kevin Kruger, President of NASPA as well as two students Victoria Andrade-Fonseca from the NUPF program and Zita Toth Gaddis from the NASPA GAP program.

All three of our guests give unique perspectives on leadership from their vantage points that everyone in student affairs, no matter where they are in their journey will learn from.

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Hello SA Voices From The Field friends! Starting next week on our regular day and time we will be back for Season 3. We are so excited to be sharing Leadership At All Levels this season!

We look forward to having you back with us next week!

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are exploring another brand new NASPA book called: Dismantling Hazing in Greek-Letter Organizations with authors Dr. Jason Meriwether, Dr. Elizabeth Allen and Joshua Brown.

About the Book

More than half of college students are hazed in the process of joining student organizations, while 7 out of every 10 students who pledge or rush a fraternity or sorority experience some form of hazing or violence. In recent years, numerous student deaths caused by hazing have called into question the value of these organizations, while college leaders seek solutions that keep students safe.

Dismantling Hazing in Greek-Letter Organizations offers practical strategies to address the complexities of hazing culture and the challenges associated with recruitment and initiation in varying contexts. Each chapter focuses on the nuanced elements of hazing within sorority and fraternity subcultures and explores the hidden harms inside these secretive and tradition-laden systems.

This engaging publication shares insights into fraternal and sororal systems by examining under-researched elements of hazing and challenging unacceptable practices within those systems. Written by educators in practice who work directly with fraternity and sorority members, national organizations, and campus leaders, the book presents an extensive selection of effective prevention-based practices that all stakeholders—both on and off campus—can use. This text provides readers with new educative models and tools to mitigate the impact of “tradition” as it competes with the value for life within Greek-letter organizations with one ultimate goal: to save the lives of students.

What's Happening Around NASPA

Today we shared a number of NASPA events that are being held between now and January. You can find out more about all of these events on the NASPA website.

If you want to reach out to Ina Agnew, you can reach her at the following:

Dr. Jason Meriwether - Website: jasonlmeriwether.com

Dr. Elizabeth Allan - Email: Elizabeth@stophazing.org or on Twitter @ElizabethJAllan

Joshua Brown - Email: jhbrown@stuact.tamu.edu

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are bringing you a continuation of our COVID-19 series with Dr. Ina Agnew, Vice President, Student Services at Oklahoma State University Institute of Technology as we talk about the impact of COVID-19 on Enrollment Management.

What's Happening Around NASPA

NASPA Strategies Conference

January 12-15, 2021

The 2021 NASPA Strategies Conferences provide student affairs practitioners with the knowledge and skills to effectively address collegiate alcohol and drug abuse prevention, mental health, sexual violence prevention and response, and well-being through a variety of comprehensive and integrative approaches.

Your registration allows you to customize your program track even if your interests cover more than one topic – NASPA Strategies converges four conferences in one!

NASPA Leadership Exchange Magazine - Summer 2020 Edition

Student Affairs Commitment to Racial Justice: Day of Action August 12, 2020

On August 12, 2020, the student affairs community, as represented by your professional associations will come together as a unit to talk about how our profession can make tangible progress in addressing racial justice on American college campuses.

This will be an historic gathering of student affairs professionals across the widest spectrum of roles and functions. Student affairs must play a leading role in combating racism and ending racial violence.

Topics will include:

Research & Scholarship
Pathways to Leadership
Student Affairs Structures that Reinforce “White-dominant” Modalities
Graduate Preparation Programs and Curriculum
Burnout and Racial Battle Fatigue for New and Mid-level Student Affairs Professionals

The day will start with a welcome from the executive leaders of ten student affairs associations. Following the opening, each association will present a half-hour session from the perspective of their specific content area. The day will culminate with a capstone session, hosted by leaders from NASPA and ACPA.

This will be a free event available to the entire student affairs community. Registration is not required. Each association will broadcast on their individual Facebook Live Account. Links to access each association's Facebook Live broadcast are included in the schedule below.

If you want to reach out to Ina Agnew, you can reach her at the following:

Email: ina.agnew@okstate.edu

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are bringing you a special interview with Josh Gana, Associate Director for Facilities and Operations and Special Projects for the Department of Housing and Food Services at the University of Washington. Josh shares his story of contracting COVID-19 and allows you an inside look at the reality behind this pandemic and how it can impact people within our profession.

What's Happening Around NASPA

One of the ways the Student Government KC hopes to help advisors is through connecting and sharing spaces to discuss the challenges and opportunities of advising student government. In the last two years we have hosted roundtable discussions at the National NASPA Conference that have been successful, and we want to replicate that throughout the year digitally. Join the Student Government Knowledge Community for our next Virtual Roundtable on August 6th via Zoom at 11:00am PT, 12:00pm MT, 1:00pm CT, 2:00pm ET! Come prepared to ask questions and share knowledge with colleagues from across the country. This roundtable discussion will be moderated by members of the SGKC team with guiding questions to help generate conversation. Sign up for our next virtual roundtable HERE!

Recognizing the racial and misogynoir battle fatigue we may be facing as Black higher education administrators across the country, the African American Knowledge Community is hosting a First Friday’s Check-in space to decompress, have conversations about what you are experiencing on your campuses, and share what support you need.

Friday August 7th, 2020

12 noon - 1:00pm (EST)

Please register using the following link: https://bit.ly/31vUQ6h

Census 2020: Insights, Lessons, and Ideas (Tue Aug 4th at 3pm ET)
Join the NASPA CLDE Knowledge Community for a listening session focused on the 2020 Census. Our guest speakers, Leslie Garvin, Executive Director of NC Campus Compact, and Natalie Furlett, Executive Director of IL Campus Compact, will share their efforts around census participation and will highlight some insights/best practices. We will also invite participants to share what their campus communities did/are planning to do around the Census - together, let's work to get everyone counted! Sign up here.

Find Out More About the Pillars of the Profession and how you can nominate someone

Examining Social Class and Career Capital in First-Generation Undergraduate Students

Wednesday, August 5, 2020 @ 3pm-4pm ET

Presenters: Kimberlie Moock, Rashné Jehangir, Michael Stebleton, Todd Williams

A key aspect of ensuring student success outcomes beyond degree completion is helping students build bridges connecting college to career. With institutions under pressure to produce career-ready graduates competent in the skills and abilities demanded by employers, it is imperative that we consider how to support students in building career capital. This session will explore how to support working-class first-generation students as they navigate the transition between college and the workplace… Ultimately, the session seeks to consider how educators can support students in building career capital and prepare to navigate the professional workplace before graduation.

This was a SCD KC-Sponsored Session for 2020 NASPA. We appreciate the presenters' willingness to adapt their session.

At the Intersection of Social Class and Career Development: Supporting Students

Thursday, August 6, 2020 @ 2pm-3pm ET

Presenters: Jon Cleveland, Tiffany Cresswell-Yaeger, Megan Downey, Jhaakira Jacobs, Jordan Thompson, Carolyn Meeker

Engage in a critical reflection on the impact of social class on career development, including the many ways that identity markers (i.e., race and ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, citizenship) interplay with social class and career development. The Student Career Development (SCD) and Socioeconomic and Class Issues in Higher Education (SCIHE) Knowledge Communities have partnered to engage the broader community in breaking apart the many barriers our low-SES and other marginalized students experience. Let's do better.

This was a Pre-Conference Session for 2020 NASPA, in collaboration with the Socioeconomic and Class Issues in Higher Education (SCIHE) KC. We appreciate the presenters' willingness to adapt to a 1-hour virtual session.

If you want to reach out to Josh Gana, you can reach him at the following:

Twitter: @JoshGana

Email: jgana@us.edu

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Today on SA Voices From the Field we have Brandi Hephner LaBanc, Frank Fernandez and Neal Hutchens, authors of a new NASPA book called, The Contested Campus: Aligning Professional Values, Social Justice, and Free Speech.

About the Book

The Contested Campus combines consideration of contemporary legal issues and standards with the exercise of professional expertise and experience. Written for student affairs professionals of all levels and graduate students, this accessible and useful resource goes beyond discussion of legal compliance by bringing much-needed clarity and guidance on a wide array of complex campus free speech issues. Chapters feature proactive campus-based practices to consider as well as diverse voices and experiences to make the book directly relevant to practice.

About the Guests

Dr. Brandi Hephner LaBanc is the Vice Chancellor for Student Affairs and Campus Life at the University of Massachusetts Amherst. You can reach her at bhl@umass.edu

Dr. Frank Fernandez is Assistant Professor of Higher Education and Ed. D. Program Director at the University of Mississippi. You can reach him at fjfernan@olemiss.edu

Dr. Neal Hutchens is Interim Chair & Professor of Higher Education in the Department of Higher Education at the University of Mississippi. You can reach him on twitter @nealhutchens at nhhutche@olemiss.edu

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Today on SA Voices From the Field we have have a cross-over episode with Alexandra Hughes, host of the Association for Student Conduct Administration (ASCA) ASCA Viewpoints podcast as they discuss dismantling systemic racism in Student Affairs. We also share the voices of student affairs professionals for a special segment on the reality of society's impact on our institutions.

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Today on SA Voices From the Field we have Dr. Matthew Jeffries and Dr. Salvador Mena as they talk about how COVID-19 has impacted LGBTQQIA+ and LatinX populations as well as what we can do to better serve these populations.

About the Guests

Dr. Matthew Jeffries is the Director of the Gender Identity Expression and Sexual Orientation Resource Center at Washington State University. You can reach Dr. Jeffries through emailing him at matthew.jeffries@wsu.edu

Dr. Salvador Mena is the Associate Vice Chancellor of Student Affairs at Rutgers University. You can contact Dr. Mena over Twitter at @sbmena1 or by email at salvador.mena@rutgers.edu

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Today as many of you celebrate the 4th of July, we are taking a short break on the SA Voices From the Field Podcast. We will be back again next week!

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Today on SA Voices From the Field we have Pam Bowers, author of a new NASPA book called, Beyond the College Transcript: Innovative Strategies for Assessing and Documenting Student Learning.

About the Book

Beyond the College Transcript explores innovative practices for assessing and documenting student learning to help higher education leaders answer these questions. This timely publication examines the current state of student learning data, with chapters that discuss methods for improving data quality and availability to benefit both students and higher education institutions. Featuring profiles of new and innovative models for modifying education records and transcripts that include cocurricular engagement data, the book emphasizes a holistic view of student learning.

As public demands for proof of the value of higher education continue to grow, colleges and universities are seeking better ways to convey what students learn and to consider how educational experiences contribute to student learning, persistence to graduation, and postgraduation success. Beyond the College Transcript offers strategies for developing comprehensive student learning records in order to advance student success, achieve institutional objectives, and provide evidence of the benefits of a college degree.

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Today on SA: Voices From the Field we are speaking with Dr. Reyna Anaya and Dr. Heidi Hoskinson about the impact of COVID-19 on Small Colleges and Community College.

Dr. Reyna Anaya is the Dean of Students at the Community College of Aurora and has been there since 2018. She directly oversees student service programs, including the care team, Colorado scholarship opportunity initiative, grant counseling services, disability and equity office, military, and veterans services, SAMSHA suicide prevention, grant, student intervention, and conduct student life transfer success initiatives, trio, SSS, and ESL programs and upward bound.

Dr. Hoskinson is Vice President of Enrollment Management and the Registrar at Roger State University in Claremore, Oklahoma

You can reach Dr. Anaya at reyna.anaya@ccaurora.edu

You can reach Dr. Hoskinson at hoskinson@rsu.edu or by phone at 918-343-7852

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Just a quick ask for help, we are looking for Voices of Black Identified SA Pros or other allies. Please submit voice messages to savoices@naspa.org

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Today on SA: Voices From the Field we are speaking with Dr. Stephanie Budhai, author of the new NASPA publication Online & Engaged: Innovative Student Affairs Practices for Online Learner Success.

Online & Engaged shares best practices, case studies, examples, and strategies for providing authentic student development support for online learners through their college experience. With chapters by student affairs and higher education professionals across a variety of functional areas, this edited collection covers a full range of concepts, student development theory, and programs and services, including: mental health and well-being, career counseling, student engagement, multicultural affairs, academic advising, new student orientation, global learning, student affairs assessment, and Title IX programming.

Dr. Stephanie Budhai shared that her Student Affairs Handbook was her essential Student Affairs Read

If you would like to reach out to Dr. Stephanie Budhai you can budhais@neumann.edu or you can find her on Twitter as @DrBudhai

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Today on SA: Voices From the Field we are continuing our COVID-19 Crisis Conversations Dialogue. Today’s episode is all about housing and residence life and how those operations in the student affairs profession have been impacted, in particular our students and staff. Today we were joined by Dr. Pamela Schreiber, Assistant Vice President for Student Life and Executive Director of Housing and Food Services at the University of Washington and Kawanna Leggett, Executive Director of Residence Life at Washington University in St. Louis. Both shared their expertise in housing and residential life as well as practical tips that they had to follow at their institutions to support their students and staff.

Dr. Schreiber shared her favorite non-Student Affairs Book as being The Book Woman of Troublesome Creek. Her favorite Student Affairs Read is The Chronicle of Higher Education. If you want to reach out to Dr. Schreiber you can reach out on Twitter at @pschreib or at pschreib@uw.edu.

Kawanna Leggett's critical Student Affairs read is "Critical Race Theory". If you want to reach out to Kawanna Leggett you can find her on twitter @k_leg80.

Join the NASPA Gender & Sexuality Knowledge Community on Friday, June 5 at 2 PM EST for an important community conversation with Dr. Kaity Prieto on the current state of research on bisexual/pansexual/queer identities among today's college students. Dr. Prieto's presentation will include empirical and qualitative research and implications for current practices and policies for the field, particularly post-COVID. Register for free now: bit.ly/GSKCjun5.

The WISA KC will be offering affinity spaces for healing, dialogue, and community. We encourage WISA members to join the spaces they feel called to participate in and that reflect their identities. Members are welcome and encouraged to join more than one space.

The Book Woman of Troublesome Creek: A Novel

Critical Race Theory (Third Edition): An Introduction (Critical America, 20)

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Today on the SA Voices from the Field Podcast we are bringing you up to date information about the changes coming to TITLE IX.

On May 14, NASPA provided a free rapid response webinar with experts in the field on TITLE IX. This discussion shared a panel of experts, representing a diverse range of perspectives from those whose roles will be most directly impacted by the final rule.

In addition, NASPA will offer a new virtual, thirty-four hour personalized Title IX certificate, beginning in late June, in partnership with Peter Lake. The Title IX certificate program is a first-of-its-kind training which includes separate tracks for Title IX Coordinators, Title IX Investigators, and Student Conduct staff. The training will cover the new regulations from the Department of Education, intersections between Title IX, Clery, and VAWA, as well as the relationship between student conduct administrators and Title IX coordinators. Registration details will be available soon.

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Today’s episode of SA Voices From the Field continues our COVID-19 and Crisis Conversation series. Today we talk with two faculty guests that will speak about the disproportionate impact that the pandemic has had on communities of color. We talk with Dr. Charles H. F. Davis III who is an Assistant Professor of Clinical Education at the University of Southern California. He is also the former Chief Strategy Officer and Director of Research at the USC Race and Equity Center. Also, we talk with Dr. Russell Jeung. Dr. Jeung is Chair and Professor of Asian American Studies at San Francisco State University. Dr. Jeung is a scholar of race and religion and his most recent book is: Family Sacrifices: The World Views and Ethics of Chinese Americans.

Dr. Davis said that his essential Higher Education read is The Alchemy of Race.

If you want to reach out to Dr. Davis you can find him on Twitter ( @hfdavis ) or Instagram ( @hfdavis )

Dr. Jeung said that his essential Higher Education read is Pedagogy of the Oppressed.

He also shared that if you are an Asian American you can share your own experience you can go to stopaapihate.com. There are over 12 languages that you can report discrimination.

If you would like to contact Dr. Jeung he can be reached at rjeung@sfsu.edu.

Family Sacrifices: The Worldviews and Ethics of Chinese Americans

Pedagogy of the Oppressed: 50th Anniversary Edition

Alchemy of Race and Rights: Diary of a Law Professor

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Today on SA Voices From the Field we will be having our first conversation about COVID-19 and the Student Affairs context. We’ll be talking about basic needs like food security, home security, healthcare, student emergency funding and internet. We have two great guests, Dr. Omar Estrada Torres, Dean of Students at Clark Atlanta University, an HBCU in Atlanta, Georgia and Dr. Sean Crossland, Director of the Thayne Center for Service & Learning at Salt Lake Community College.

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Today on SA Voices from the Field we are talking to Dr. Robert Kelly and Colin Stewart, the editors of the book Disruptive Transformation: Leading Creative and Innovative Teams in Higher Education which is now available from the NASPA bookstore and on Amazon. The authors of this new book share how disruptive transformation can be seen on campuses today and how, in this changing world we are in, we can see and become stronger leaders from this as well.

If you want to reach out to these editors, Dr. Kelly shared that he can be reached at rkelly1@loyola.edu , and Colin Stewart mentioned you can reach him at costewart@csufresno.edu or through Instagram or Twitter

Disruptive Transformation: Leading Creative and Innovative Teams in Higher Education

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Get ready for Season 2 starting next week. Today, Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Christopher Lewis share some of the new things you will find in our new season of SA Voices From the Field.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Dr. Jill Creighton, the new host of SA Voices from the Field. Dr. Creighton is Associate Vice President of Student Affairs and Dean of Students and Deputy Title IX Coordinator at Washington State University. Today you will get to know Dr. Creighton as well as learn more about the impact of the COVID-19 Coronavirus on her campus and what they are doing to support all of their students.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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| Below is a message from NASPA President Kevin Kruger. We write to share news that the place-based NASPA Annual Conference, The Placement Exchange, and the NASPA Connected Conference in Austin, Texas and San Jose, California have been cancelled due to the Novel Coronavirus 2019 (COVID-19) and its designation as a global pandemic by the World Health Organization. We have spent the past few days working through the process outlined by the City of Austin for events greater than 2,500, which has both taken longer and been more complicated than the news has reported. The health and safety of our members has always been our first priority, however we have also been working to assess the long-term impact of canceling the conference on our ability to continue serving and supporting our community. We appreciate your patience as we thoroughly reviewed all of our contractual obligations to ensure the long-term sustainability of the Association. The official decision was made to cancel the Annual Conference by a vote of the NASPA Board of Directors today, March 12, 2020. Our Association’s gathering to reconnect, network, learn, and discuss research and practice that support student success has taken place annually for the last 101 years. (The only other time we did not hold an Association-wide meeting was during World War II.) From celebrating the achievements of our colleagues to participating in informal reunions with those who have become our chosen family, these moments away from day-to-day work are good for our own mental health and often sustain us throughout the year until the next time that we are all together. While we will not hold a place-based event, we are working to develop a free virtual, live-streaming option for keynotes, featured educational sessions, and our constituent group business meetings, including the NASPA Annual Business Meeting. We also will recognize our NASPA Annual Award winners, the NASPA Pillars of the Profession, and the countless others who have given so much to our Association this past year. We plan to make the virtual option available to participants from Monday, March 30, 2020 – Wednesday, April 10, 2020. Although we would like to engage the nearly 1,600 presenters who committed to sharing knowledge at the NASPA Annual Conference, it will be challenging to recreate the experience of 700 sessions at the in-person event. We know that each of you who submitted program proposals and were selected have worked hard to prepare content that is engaging for your colleagues and the field at-large. We are working on an alternative method for content to be shared for those who would like to do so. We will be in touch with all presenters next week. Additionally, we are working with our partners at ACUHO-I to proceed with a virtual option for TPE that still allows employers and candidates to participate in interviews using our scheduling tools and online platform as a resource. We encourage you to continue to schedule interviews through the TPE website, with more information and details about next steps and refund options shared in the coming days with TPE registrants. We will refund registration in full and without fees to those who are registered for the NASPA Annual Conference. If you would like your registration fee to be transferred to the 2021 NASPA Annual Conference, you may also do this. Any registration fees that are not cancelled by April 3, 2020 will be automatically transferred to the 2021 event. If you are unsure if you will attend the conference in 2021, please know that you contact us to receive a full refund by cancelling no later than January 9, 2021. Please visit our COVID-19 FAQs page for specific instructions. Hotel reservations made through NASPA’s room block will be automatically cancelled. Attendees will receive a cancellation confirmation email from the hotel directly. Attendees made their own housing reservations must cancel directly with the properties. As noted in our conference registration policies, NASPA cannot control flight cancellation/change fees for participants. NASPA Connected Conference registrants will receive a separate email with information about refunds and hotel cancellations We are very grateful for the nearly 18 months of planning by the 2020 Conference Leadership Committee, 2020 TPE Committee, 2020 NASPA Connected Conference Committee, volunteer leaders, and staff who have worked tirelessly in the planning process for these events. We know that you are managing much of the same challenges on your own campus, and we thank you for allowing us the grace and flexibility to do what is best for our members, the Association, and the health, safety, and well-being of our community. Thank you, Kevin Kruger Devin Suite |

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Hello, this is Chris Lewis, producer of Student Affairs voices from the field. This is a quick episode today with a little announcement that with the NASPA conference happening March 29 to April 1, the student affairs voices from the field podcast is going to be taking a short break to prepare for the conference. We look forward to seeing and meeting you at the conference. And we'll be back to our regularly scheduled episodes in April. Thanks so much for being a loyal Student Affairs voices from the field podcast listener. We truly truly appreciate it and look forward to having you back again soon.

In the meantime, we would love to have you leave a review of Student Affairs Voices from the Field on your favorite podcasting platform as this allows us to know what is working and what may also need some work!

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Dr Lori White, Vice Chancellor of Student Affairs, Washington University, St. Louis and Past NASPA Board President as she talks with host Corliss Bennett about My Soul Looks and Wonders How I Got Over from the NASPA book: Transformational Encounters: Shaping Diverse College and University Leaders

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Dr Michael Jackson, Emeritus Vice President for Student Affairs
University of Southern California as he talks with host Corliss Bennett about Resilience: The Key to Thriving.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Dr. Sabrina Sanders of California State University’s Office of the Chancellor as she talks with host Corliss Bennett about her journey from NUFP Mentee to Higher Education Thought Leader.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Dr Felicia McGinty, Executive Vice Chancellor of Rutger University in New Jersey as she talks with host Corliss Bennett about Student Movements Shape Higher Education.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Dr. Lori Davis of The Ohio State University as she talks with host Corliss Bennett about the Role of a Department Chair: My Path from Student Affairs to Academic Affairs .

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Dr. Raquel Torres-Retana of the Pasadena City College, Dean, Rosemead Satellite Campus as she talks with host Corliss Bennett about Parenting as a Woman of Color Throughout an entire Career.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Dr. Shauna Sobers of the University of Texas, Austin as she talks with host Corliss Bennett about Growing Pathways to Senior Leadership for Women of Color.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet LaTecia Yarbrough, Coordinator for Residential Education for both Rachel Carson and Oakes Colleges for the University of California, Santa Cruz and Ricky Urgo, University of Michigan Hall Director as they talk with host Corliss Bennett about Professionalism or Socialized White Supremacy.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Dr. Christopher Lewis as he talks with host Corliss Bennett about the importance of involvement in professional associations like NASPA. They talk about different ways to get involved and the importance of this in one's professional journey.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Dr. Ciera Graham who recently wrote a blog on NASPA entitled, Black, Woman, and First Gen: The Trials and Triumphs. In this episode we explore the experience of Black Women in higher education and student affairs today. This is an interesting discussion about the importance of diversity in higher education and more.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Dr. Kyle Ashlee, as we talk about The Student Affairs State of Affairs. The concepts shared today come from a researched blog article. He began researching for the post in August by putting a call out to the student affairs facebook page and his network of colleagues asking folks to share the top three issues on their mind as they entered the 2019 academic year. The responses he got were overwhelming and the trends were undeniable. After compiling the responses and analyzing them, he came up with the top 10 issues on the minds of student affairs professionals. From there, he went on to make connections between those issues and the larger influence of neoliberalism on higher education. Finally, he shared some insights about what professionals can do to promote their own wellness, the well-being of their students, and their institutions. All of these issues are shared in today's great episode.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Alan Acosta, Associate Dean of Students at Florida State University as he talks with host Corliss Bennett about The Ecology of Magic: Designing Campus Environments. In this conversation they talk about hos colleges and universities today must look at how they can create intentional environments to bring out the magic on each college campus and make the college experience one that our students will never forget!

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Dr. Brent Marsh, Assistant Vice Chancellor for Student Affairs and Dean of Students at The University of Mississippi. Today he and host Corliss Bennett dive deep into looking at The Rapid Rise of ESports on college campuses today. So whether your campus already is doing something with ESports or not, this is an episode you will not want to miss as no matter what, this impacts many of the students on your campus!

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Teri Lyn Hinds, Director of Policy Research & Advocacy as we talk about NASPA & Public Policy and some of the hottest topics in public policy that are impacting higher education today.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Beth Morgan, R.J. Jenkins and David Keefe from Columbia University. They share information on the Center for Veteran Transition and Integration and student veteran transition to higher education. On top of this they also share how campuses are serving the needs of student veterans and some of the obstacles student veterans face in higher education.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Megan Rolfs, Director of Marketing and Communication at Illinois State University as we talk about Influencer Marketing in Student Affairs.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Dr. Larry Roper, professor in the School of Language, Culture and Society at Oregon State University, where he also serves as coordinator of the college student services administration master’s program and coordinator of the social justice minor as we talk about The Inner Landscape of Senior Leaders - Preparing to Lead Campus Healing.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Dr. David Zamojski, Assistant Dean of Students, Boston University as we talk about Managing Change as a SA Professional and the example of merging Wheelock College with Boston University.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Dr. Kathy Collins, Vice President for Student Affairs, University of Rhode Island as we talk about Creating a culture of risk mitigation and it's implications to Student Affairs Professionals.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Dr. Dave Eng of JobHakr as we talk about the Student Affairs Job Search and Working With Online Students.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Dr. Grant Azdell, Vice President for Student affairs and Dean of Students at Randolph-Macon College as we talk about Protecting Your International Students.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Dr. Felicia Patterson, Vice President for Learner Support Services at Anne Arundel Community College in Maryland. as we talk about Embracing Change in Student Affairs.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Dr. Anna Gonzalez, Vice President for Student Affairs & Dean of Students at Harvey Mudd College as we talk about Supporting Student Activism on Campus.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Dr. Jayne Brownell, Vice President for Student Life at Miami University as we talk about what you need to know about the Return on Investment in Higher Education for our Students Today.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Dr. Anthony Altieri, Vice President for Student Affairs Lynn University and Dr. Theresa Gallo, Associate Dean of Students at Lynn University as we talk about what you need to know about Engaging the Under Engaged Student On Your Campus.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Dr. Ellen J Neufeldt and Mark Allen Poisel of the Enrollment Management Knowledge Community within NASPA as we talk about what you need to know about the future enrollment projections in higher education.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Shea Alvey of the Sustainability Knowledge Community

In this conversation you will gain a better understanding of not only the sustainability knowledge community but also about best practices in sustainability and the connection between sustainability and social justice on campuses today.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Dr. Michael Stebleton and Rebecca Leighton from the University of Minnesota. They are talking about food insecurity and hunger on college campuses and are sharing some great tips on what you can do on your campus to address this.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Candace Avalos as she talks about the Student Government Knowledge Community as well as student engagement on campus.

In this conversation you will gain a better understanding of this new knowledge community as well as strategies to better engage students on your on college campuses.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Meghan Riley as she talks about navigating grad school as an international student and a single income mom while working in student services positions.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Abigail Smith as she talks about navigating the job search process and student affairs in general as an international student/ visa holding person.

Abigail is an international student / VISA holding person and she shares what it was/has been like to go through this process within the United States.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Dr. Erik Sorensen and Sasha Masoomi of Miami University as they talk about Secondary Traumatic Stress in the Resident Assistant role. Being a resident assistant is not always the easiest role and there are things that happen that can be traumatic not only to student staff but also professional staff. How do we best support these students?

This podcast will explore this issue and provide some practical tips to consider when looking at this new area of research. While more work needs to happen, it is an important topic that needs to be explored.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Kerry Burns as she talks about students making choices to engage in online escorting, or 'compensated companionship' as it has been called. At her campus she has seen a large number of students engaged with a particular online website, and she explores how we can support student rights and choices regarding a students' body, while addressing possible safety and public health concerns.

This is a topic that you typically will not see spoken about in Student Affairs but it a growing issue, especially in cities where the cost of living is high.

Kerry Burns refers a lot to Duke University and especially to the work of both Laura Andrews and Lindsey Parker.

Here are some links that will allow you to read more on this powerful topic:

https://nypost.com/2019/03/15/the-colleges-with-the-most-sugar-babies-in-america/ https://www.seeking.com/sugar-baby-university/usa-2017 https://www.seeking.com/sugar-baby-university http://sffoghorn.com/seeking-security-students-being-paid-as-sugar-babies/ So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Matthew Newlin as he talks about considering and choosing a graduate program (Masters or Doctorate) and the myriad considerations for those pursuing or expanding their student affairs career.

In this conversation Matthew shares his own experiences with selecting a graduate program and the thought process that he and others go through to make the best decision possible when it comes to furthering your own education.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet David Jones as he talks about the Ujima Institute, which is a new NASPA Institute that will be happening in November.

In this conversation you will gain a better understanding of this great new institute. The inaugural 2019 Ujima Institute is designed for African American and Black higher education professionals who aspire to senior student affairs officer roles and faculty positions, including the cabinet-level vice president for student affairs positions at colleges and universities.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Charlene Martinez as she talks about Emergent Strategy and using story circles to support campus culture change.

In this conversation you will gain a better understanding of a new way to get people to talk to break down barriers and to share experiences which ultimately worked to change culture at a campus.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Brett Perozzi, chair of the

Dr. John Yaun, chair of the International Advisory Board for NASPA

In this conversation we gain a better understanding of Global Expansion of Student Affairs: Implications for the field of Student Affairs. We also learn more about the International Advisory Board and what its' role is within NASPA. We also explore best practices that are happening around the country in regards to global expansion of student affairs.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Dr. Susan Komives, Pillar of the profession and Emeritus faculty at the University of Maryland.

In this conversation we delve into the topic of how, as Student Affairs Professional we can educate the whole student. Dr. Komives provides practical tips to help you in your pwn professional journey.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Dr. John Yaun, chair of the Student Affairs Partnering with Academic Affairs (SAPAA) Knowledge Community (KC).

In this conversation we gain a better understanding of the SAPAA KC and what the KC stands for and how as a KC the group is working to examine how academic and student affairs can find common ground. We also explore best practices that are happening around the country in student affairs and academic affairs partnerships.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Crasha Townsend, chair of the African American Knowledge Community (AAKC).

In this conversation we gain a better understanding of the AAKC and what the AAKC stands for and how as a KC the group is working to examine best practices and aiding student affairs professionals with their own development through networking and more.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Dr. Scott Peska, the Enough is Enough co-chair for NASPA.

If you do not know about Enough is Enough, it is a leading source in higher education for promoting peace and reducing violence on our campuses today. Their mission is to encourage and support campuses and communities to work together in developing comprehensive, intentional, and systematic violence prevention initiatives.

Dr. Peska shares best practices and some of the initiatives and goals behind the Enough is Enough efforts as well as what you can do at your campus to become a part of the Enough is Enough initiative.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Martha Harper, chair of the Adult Learners and Students with Children Knowledge Community (KC).

In this conversation we gain a better understanding of the Adult Learner and Students with Children KC and what the KC stands for and how as a KC the group is working to examine best practices and aiding student affairs professionals to learn about and act on supporting adult learners and students with children on our campuses.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Amber Fallucca and Tray Robinson, co-chairs of the Student Athlete Knowledge Community (KC) within NASPA.

In this conversation we gain a better understanding of the Student Athlete KC and what the KC stands for and how as a KC the group is working to examine best practices and aiding student affairs professionals to learn about and act on supporting student athletes on all types of campuses.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Steve Jenks, chair of the Socioeconomic and Class Issues in Higher Education Knowledge Community (KC).

In this conversation we gain a better understanding of the Socioeconomic and Class Issues KC and what the KC stands for and how as a KC the group is working to examine best practices and aiding student affairs professionals to learn about and act on supporting students from all walks of life through issues that will impact their overall success.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Jeanna Mastrodicasa about student protests. As a professional at a large campus in Florida Jeanna has worked within her campus community to create a safe environment for safe protests to occur but also has worked through some very controversial speakers that have come on campus.

In this conversation you will gain a better understanding of what campuses need to think about when it comes to either working with students on campus or in working with outside speakers.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Marianne Magjuka, chair of the Civic Learning and Democratic Engagement (CLDE) Knowledge Community (KC).

In this conversation we gain a better understanding of the CLDE KC and what the KC stands for and how as a KC the group is working to examine best practices and promoting student affairs professionals to learn about and act on supporting students to become more actively involved in civic learning and democratic engagement activities.

So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Dr. Lynette Merriman. Dr. Merriman shares her experiences with working with students on campus after the death of another student as well as working with the family of the deceased. This is a powerful podcast episode that will assist you in thinking about what you must do to create an atmosphere of support for all on campus. It will also allow you to think through the policies and procedures that you have established when it comes to dealing with a death of a student within your campus community. So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Evette Allen and Antonio Duran, co-chairs of the New Professional and Graduate Student (NPGS) Knowledge Community (KC). In this conversation we talk about some of the most pressing issues impacting new professionals and graduate students today. We also talk about what we can do as professionals to support the next generation of student affairs professionals.

Join your host Dr. Corliss Bennett to gain some practical insights and tips into how you can be the best student affairs professional you can be.

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This week on SA Voices from the field you will meet Dr. Shannon Ellis as she shares five things that every student affairs professional should know. This is a riveting conversation with a Pillar of the NASPA profession. So get out your notebook and be ready to learn as there are so many nuggets to take away from today's interview.

SA Voices From the Field: Recent Episodes

Dr. Jill Creighton, NASPA