Having struggled to manage and maintain distribution for her family winery, Cheryl Durzy, CEO of LibDib, decided to start her own distributor. In comes LibDib, a tech-enabled distributor that lets any alcohol producer have distribution in most of the key US markets. Cheryl provides background on the US 3-tier system, the role of a distributor, and how LibDib is helping producers get distribution, enable wine sales, and become a tech platform for other distributors.

Detailed Show Notes:

US 3-Tier System

Put in after prohibition to keep one tier from owning alcohol distribution
Tiers - producer, distributor, retailer

US distribution heavily consolidated into 3 large ones, lots of smaller specialty distributors vs. many distributors in the 70s/80s

Distributor function

Helps consolidate suppliers for trade accounts; accounts don’t have resources to manage each supplier separately (e.g., invoices, checks)
Pay taxes, do compliance
Logistics (heavy, fragile product)
Customer service (mistakes, breakage, returns, samples)
Sometimes act as a winery’s salesforce

Getting a distributor

2024 - distributors are shedding brands vs. taking on new ones
Typically - look for fit w/in a distributor’s portfolio, pick someone with a good reputation
Distributors will ask - what will be your investment in the market? How often will you be here? Do you have feet on the street?

LibDib - enables wineries to sell themselves, a tech-enabled distributor

Started as a wholesaler in 2017 (CA, NY), enables distributor for any producer
The platform enables rich content and e-commerce
Has license in 9 states, enabled through RNDC in 6 states (e.g., Texas)
~1,500 suppliers w/ active accounts, ~700 wineries w/ ~450 actively selling
Originally focused on spirits, wineries have increased by ~50% in the last few years
Uses FedEx to send wine, integrated API to track status, negotiated good rates <50% of DTC rates; have cold chain, ice pack options for hot temperatures
New markets launching late 2024 / early 2025

LibDib use cases

Get wine to specific accounts in a market
Enable wine brokers in other states
Importers sell directly to accounts
Ship special projects from large wineries that distributors don’t want to touch

Pros/cons of LibDib

Pro - always have distribution, good communications/customer service, good technology experience for producers and trade accounts
Cons - no salesforce, need to be a little tech-savvy

Business model

Markup of 14-18% on sales (vs. 30-35% for most distributors) + producer pays for shipping
Subscription service (Gold, Silver, Plus) - get lower markups and services (e.g., portfolio management, VIP chain assistance, advertising on platform)
~250 subscriptions (of 1,500), mainly on Gold for chain services

RNDC partnership - OnDemand division

Onboard w/ both RNDC and LibDib, no sales support
28% markup, inclusive of shipping
6 states, ~400 suppliers
Most people want to get regular distribution, which can act as a trial for RNDC

Trade account benefits

~30k accounts (~50% active), not including RNDC states
No minimum shipments
Enables direct contact w/ wineries
Access to smaller items not available elsewhere

LibTech (launched Jan 2024 in TN)

RNDC invested in the last round, and LibDib built e-RNDC
Selling e-commerce platform as SaaS to other distributors

LibDib is developing AI tools for suppliers, early 2025 launch

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As the pioneer of Vitis Vinifera in the Eastern US, Dr. Konstantin Frank is one of the key leaders of the Fingers Lakes region in New York. Meaghan Frank, a fourth-generation vintner, has been leading the charge to evolve its hospitality program to create brand ambassadors for the winery and the region. Its 1886 Wine Experience has won Best Wine Tour by USA Today in the last two years. Meaghan breaks down their hospitality program and its impact on their business.

Detailed Show Notes:

Finger Lakes region, NY - 150 wineries (of 400 in NY), NW NY State - 5 hrs from NYC

Skinny, deep lakes that moderate weather
Glaciers left diverse soils
Tourism-driven, seasonal visitors (spring to fall) for lakes, hiking, close to Niagara Falls, Corning Museum of Glass

Dr. Konstantin Frank - PhD in Viticulture from Odesa, Ukraine; a grape scientist; fled to NY during WWII

35 years of cold climate grape growing experience when moved to NY
1st to plant vinifera in Eastern US
Planted experiment station in the 1950s - 68 varieties, including Furmit, Pedro Ximenez, and Touriga Nacional) to research what would work best

Dr. K Frank Winery

17 vinifera varieties → 40 wines
60% wholesale, 40% DTC
40 states, 9 export markets (5%, incl Japan, Aruba (lots of NY visitors), UK)
DTC 60% e-commerce (driven by wine club), 40% hospitality

Hospitality program

The goal is to create brand ambassadors and loyalty, get the word out about the Finger Lakes
Inspired by Australian hospitality programs - private, educational
~40k visitors/year (#1 PA - 1 hour away, NJ, OH, NY core markets) - all seated, paid
Pre-pandemic - ~80k visitors/year for free bar tastings
Moved to an experience-driven program with wine educators, take advantage of lake view

Three experiences:

Eugenia’s Garden - modeled after great grandmother’s garden, most casual, can do a la carte glasses/bottles/flights; enables people to enjoy the day; targets a younger demographic
Signature Seated ($15pp) - most popular, educational, 1 hr, 6 wines, 5 different themes that are part of the winery’s story (e.g., traditional sparkling, Riesling pioneer, groundbreaking grapes, red wines)
The 1886 Wine Experience ($75pp) - only May-Oct, 2-2.5 hrs, led by wine educator, a tour of the vineyard, sparkling and still wine cellars, seated tasting of 4 wines with bites, followed by additional tastings; won best wine tour by USA Today last 2 years; lots of 1st-time visitors book 1886 due to unique nature
Lessons learned - used to do 6 wine flight w/ bites, which was too many; did themed months (e.g., sparkling) - did not work with mostly tourists
Differentiators - spend lots of time, has a separate private space for 1886

Wine club evolution

Used to have people pay upfront for the year - bigger barrier to signing up, always feel like “playing catchup” to ensure value delivered, concentrated work during shipment periods
Moved to more subscription model - quarterly, 3 wines w/ default package, fully customizable, no upfront fee, 20% discount on wines, and get free tastings (no limit)
8% club conversion - the only way to get free tastings now, used to waive w/ 4 bottle purchase
Locals small portion of the club - pickup option only 10%, PA #1
Avg tenure 1.5 years, seeing it extend with the new club model

Popular wines

Hospitality - Rkatsiteli #1, traditional method sparkling
Wholesale - #1 & #2 - dry & semi-dry Riesling
Riesling 60% of production, traditional method growing

Increasing issues around climate change - 2023 had the largest spring frost in history, increasing water issues

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With ~2M monthly sessions on their newly unified commerce and media website, Wine Enthusiast continues to be a beacon for the wine industry. Jacki Strum, President of Wine Enthusiast Media, details their new wine review platform and global wine travel directory, democratizing access to wine and wine experiences globally. These initiatives help bring more people into the world of wine, including the younger generations, a critical part of building a vibrant wine industry.

Detailed Show Notes:

Covid altered the business model, led to re-structured organization and unified media and commerce divisions on wineenthusiast.com

2022 - WE paused reviews for emerging wine regions to recalibrate systems

Existing tasting process

1 of 2 publications that review every wine blind (high cost), taste in flights w/in region and price brackets
Need to store, archive, organize wines, set up tastings (in paper bags with numbers), and hire reviewers
50% of reviews are done at HQ (imported wines), and West Coast wines are done locally
The manual process of filling out a pdf and putting that into the box with wines, manually inputted into J Guide (legacy system, 20 years old), then stored and organized for tasting

New tasting platform (Sept 2024) - anyone can submit a wine for review and all will be reviewed

New digital platform - bar code scanners, printed tabs, can track shipments and deliveries, a more fluid database
Reduces large volume of questions from people submitting wine (can track digitally)
It has the same # of reviewers, but a more flexible infrastructure can allow for more wines to be tasted
$65/SKU processing fee - all reviewers charge in some way (e.g., require subscription, membership, or advertisement)
6-month processing time (same as before) - hope to reduce this over time, based on the schedule of reviewers
Printed reviews selected by the tasting dept, all scores published online for free

Tasting platform benefits for new and small wineries

Opens up reviews to all regions across the globe
The US market is still heavily score-driven for distribution (some major retailers, e.g., Costco, Kroger, Albertsons, require scores from major publications)
Helps with tasting room and local distribution sales

Media trends

Print is still doing well (e.g., books outsold movie tickets last year), and magazine subscriptions are increasing (free tote bags help)
Advertising up slightly
Digital media is growing, with a targeted advertising focus
Events - biggest growth area - launched Sip of South America, Sip of Italy, and biggest event is Wine Star Awards (25th Anniversary in SF this year)
TikTok now allows alcohol advertising, getting Gen Z engaged with wine knowledge

New travel division for WE

Tasting room directory, partnered w/ Tock - 1st agnostic travel global wine travel guide
Leverages Tock’s wineries as launching list (~1,200 wineries, CA focused), building out globally with WE relationships (~100 wineries reached out in 1st month to be included)
The 2nd most trafficked page on the site

WE revenue mix

Covid - led to explosive commerce growth
Today - back to 2019 levels, ~80% commerce / ~20% media

Getting Gen Z engaged with wine

Print enables content absorption without ad bombardment (e.g., book reading bars in NYC)
Need to change content for each channel to target audience (e.g., Google as people’s “secret diary,” article on how to hold a wine glass became a top 5 article)
Influencers, infographics, video - bring in new consumers (e.g., wine & potato chip parking article led to major influencer doing every pairing on TikTok)

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During a career sabbatical from wine PR at a yoga teacher retreat, Morgan Perry tried combining wine education and yoga with great success. Her classmates practically forced her to found Vino Vinyasa, which has blossomed into six cities. With a focus on creating great experiences rather than selling wine, Morgan has created a platform where people learn about wine and end up seeking out the wines featured in classes.

Detailed Show Notes:

Morgan’s background - wine PR, been in wine for ~15 years, became a yoga teacher in 2017

Wine & Yoga synergies

Both are about mindfulness - yoga and the wine tasting process
Not for hard-core wellness or yoga people

Vino Vinyasa

For the yoga teacher exam, the teacher encouraged something different, tried yoga & wine, and got a fantastic reception
6 cities - NYC (2017), Austin (2018), Nashville, Chicago, LA, Houston

Vino Vinyasa programming

45 min Vinyasa yoga (all levels), followed by wine tasting of 2 wines
Taste wine after yoga - people are relaxed and have “yoga brain” in a quiet, focused environment → people may be better tasters
Embed wine facts during yoga
A comparative tasting of 2 wines, usually themed (e.g., Rose, Sauvignon Blanc)
All instructors have a wine background (min WSET 1)
2-3 classes/month, 20-25 people/class for intimacy (capped at 30)
~30 classes/themes developed to date
Very intentional class structure, certain poses not suitable for teaching

Business model

The core business is to get people to do more classes and events, not be overly salesy with wine
Do private events (90% are bachelorette parties)
Sell swag (t-shirts), co-branded bottles
Look to be good value (avg class price $30) vs. regular yoga classes (avg ~$20-25, range from $10-35 for drop in class)

Students often seek out wines after classes

Wine selection for classes

Venue dependant, venues carry liquor licenses
City Winery (NYC) - chooses the wines based on their selection
Other venues - can get wines donated for classes
Private events - Customers can select wines/themes
Have worked with PR clients for wines
Some wineries sponsored virtual classes during Covid

Marketing

PR background has helped and got early press (e.g., digital Good Morning America), mostly wine market
Email newsletter
IG is the best channel, does some boosting, and is focused on growth during Covid (~11k followers)
Digital marketing has focused on both wellness and wine people
~15-20% of people have attended multiple classes

Private events

Bachelorette parties, birthdays, corporate events (e.g., Binny’s in Chicago)
The focus area for growth
Same format as classes

Wellness & wine market

Other wine + yoga classes are not educational; some are tied to multi-level marketing wine programs that have long sales pitches
Sees more yoga at wineries
They have been approached by a couple of spas for partnerships, but the economics were not favorable yet (i.e., yoga teachers often are not paid well, ~$30/class)

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Taking over an iconic estate can be both exciting and terrifying. When EPI purchased the iconic Brunello di Montalcino producer Biondi Santi in 2017, they asked Giampiero Bertolini to take over as CEO. Giampiero was excited to join the “Champions League” of wine but also had to convince the local community that this outside investment would be good. He delves into how Biondi Santi has been pushing toward creating more value for the brand while maintaining its core essence.

Detailed Show Notes:

Biondi Santi’s history

Family invented Brunello di Montalcino
Founded in 1888 - Ferruccio Biondi Santi had a vision of quality wine with longevity during a time when people focused on quantity with wine as part of the diet
Bottled in Bordeaux-shaped glass (a sign of quality) vs. standard Tuscan fiasco
Tancredi Biondi Santi - one of the top consulting winemakers of the time, was asked to write appellation rules in 1967
Franco Biondi Santi (“the doctor”) - selected the BBS11 clone in the ‘70s and organized a 100-year vertical tasting (1888-1988) in 1994 with important wine writers that boosted the image of Brunello. One writer gave the 1891 vintage 100 points

La Storica (wine library) - has all vintages since 1888, releases one old Riserva with a current Riserva each year

Path to Iconic Status

The vision of the family - be good winemakers, high-quality
In the global market regularly → elevated the Biondi Santi to a different level
The wine offered to Queen Elizabeth II in 1967 was a favorite of Frank Sinatra’s

EPI acquired Biondi Santi in 2017 and installed Giampiero as CEO; the community was skeptical of French owners for an iconic estate had to convince neighbors by being transparent about what they were doing at the estate

Before the takeover, prior 20 years, the business was not run well
Rebuilt global distribution, did not have US distribution
Re-connected with trade, critics, and consumers/collectors

What they kept the same

Reinforced market position
Style of the wines
What they changed
New vineyard philosophy (regenerative), replanted vineyards to improve quality, conducted soil studies
Increased communications and more selective to the right people and thproperht channels
Managed pricing to reposition the brand to increase demand

Keeping the brand fresh

want s to be closer to the trade and consumer, spend more time in the market
Storytelling of what is happening at the estate, not just the history, but today’s actions that protect the future
La Voce di Biondi Santi - started 3 years ago, selects one word each year that is part of their philosophy (this year is “respect”); creates novel/audiobook based on a keyword (e.g., Joanne Harris, author of Chocolat) and podcasts with winemaker and Giampiero around the keyword

The most effective initiative so far - repositioning the brand by increasing price → gave higher credibility and put the brand up another step, old vintages increasing in price on the secondary market, high demand on Liv-ex (one of few growing while price increasing), one of the top 35 wines in the world on Liv-ex

Growth for Biondi Santi = value growth; volume is complex to grow

Value-driven by increasing distribution globally to rarify the brand further, not just taking price, but increasing value, which is a consequence of many conditions, and not rushing value creation in the market

Biondi Santi is now in 2.0 after 1st five years, and the next step is to increase the quality of its presence in the world and be closer to partners and consumers

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In part 2 with Stevie Kim, Managing Director of Vinitaly, she explains how parent company Veronafiere invested in the various Vinitaly products and allowed her to experiment. Stevie also dives into her prolific content strategy, including the Italian Wine Podcast, which has over 2M downloads to date and where she sees value in marketing.

Detailed Show Notes:

Italian Wine Podcast

Initially created to develop content for VIA candidates
Something different every day - up to 9 episodes published / week
Example shows: Ambassador’s Corner - Italian Wine Ambassadors go deep with their favorite Italian producer; US Market Focus - different perspectives on the US wine market
Now ~2,000 episodes, they had to switch podcast distributors to Megaphone (Spotify) as most only host up to 500 episodes
Audience - early on, was ~80% US & English speaking countries (the podcast is in English), and VIA students
~6M total downloads with a broader audience than Vinitaly attendees

Funding the Vinitaly complex

Significant investment by Veronafiere, which is majority-owned by the city of Verona
Italian Trade Agency subsidizes some events - e.g., pays for transport for judges for 5 Star Wines
Some ticket sales and sponsorship revenue
Podcasts funded by Stevie personally

Veronafiere saw value in investing in Vinitaly products

Wanted to become more international
Allowed Stevie to experiment with new products and invest in them

Stevie’s team has a large staff of content producers (video, social media)

Document everything they do
Create tons of content, of which only ~50% is used
Stevie believes in being prolific - promotes discovery

Marketing products

Never advertise on LinkedIn - it is too expensive
Instagram - sometimes does advertising, conversion doesn’t happen on IG, try to drive to the website to convert, more for attention vs. conversion
Facebook - most wine producers on FB, more effective and efficient, can get ~$100k subscription revenue from ~$5k ad spend
Less concerned with “vanity” metrics like views and engagement, more interested in conversions

Looking forward - wants to bring more people to Italy and Vinitaly - it is the best way to convert people to Italian wine

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As the world's most prominent Italian wine fair, Vinitaly attracts ~4,000 producers and turns the entire city of Verona into Vinitaly {. As Managing Director of Vinitaly, Stevie Kim has built a vast, international community around Vinitaly and its many other products surrounding it, becoming a "Vinitaly Marathon." Stevie goes into depth about why each product was started and how it plugs into the entire Vinitaly ecosystem in part 1 of this 2-part series.

Detailed Show Notes:

Stevie's background: born in Korea, grew up in New York, married an Italian, and moved to Italy; Veronafiere recruited her to lead Vinitaly

The Vinitaly "Marathon" (2025 schedule)

Vinitaly Int’l Academy ("VIA") - 5 days
5 Star Wines - 3 days (April 1-3)
OperaWine - 1 day (April 5)
Vinitaly - 4 days (April 6-9)

Also, do events outside of Verona (New York, China, Hong Kong)

Vinitaly - established in 1967 in Verona

It started as ½ pavilion, now 14 pavilions
Largest Italian wine event, primarily B2B
The entire town of Verona becomes Vinitaly
Vinitaly in the city events for consumers
~4k wineries (~60% of export market), accessories, winemaking equipment
About building long-term relationships - "the Italian way" - not just about doing business vs. Prowein's more business-oriented

OperaWine

Partnered with Wine Spectator as the most influential entity for Italian wine
The winemaker or principal must pour
By invitation only, each producer chosen (130 producers) gets 10 invites

VIA

1,300 candidates so far, 398 certified Italian Wine Ambassadors
Used to do Vinitaly tours and masterclasses globally, now transformed to VIA
Developed based on Stevie's experience building a medial master's program that created a deep community
Faculty - Sarah Heller MW, Attilio Scienza - vine geneticist
Difficult exam, deep and wide syllabus primarily based on grape varieties, uses Italian Wine Unplugged 2.0 as the textbook
Has a course that includes 4 days of tasting ~300 wines before the exam
Requires a group video project to ensure ambassadors can speak about wines
Creates a big community around candidates and ambassadors - more important than the material itself

5 Star Wines (fka Vinitaly Int’l Competition)

Gets international judges & VIA community opportunity to taste and rate Italian wines
Helps producers - 90+ scores get a diploma during Vinitaly to display, which helps attendees navigate booths
Did a masterclass for producers w/ top scoring wines on why they scored highly, which helped them understand quality better
Every tasting panel has an enologist, enabling the international community to connect with Italian winemakers

Wine2Wine business forum (Nov - after harvest, before Christmas)

The goal is to help producers better prepare for Vinitaly
Historically, they had 40-70 workshops on business topics
2023 - did tastings where wine critics taught how they assess and rate wines
2024 - getting an overhaul, no parallel session, 8 plenary sessions, 6 tastings, new structured networking - rooms led by specialists w/ 10-12 attendees

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Written by the Biondi-Santi family in 1967, the appellation rules for Brunello di Montalcino are some of the strictest in Italy. This has led to Brunello vineyard land becoming some of the most expensive in the country and led Brunello on the pathway to becoming one of the world's iconic wine regions. Giampiero Bertolini, CEO of Biondi-Santi, explains the terroir, regulations, and market for Brunello di Montalcino and his belief in pursuing value and quality over quantity.

Detailed Show Notes:

Giampiero's background - studied economics, worked at Procter & Gamble, entered the wine industry by chance

Brunello di Montalcino - hill in Tuscany, b/w coast and Apennine mountains, protected by mountains and with altitude

There are lots of different soils, and each location on a hill is different
Sangiovese - only appellation in Italy with only one varietal, >150 clones (Biondi Santi uses 46 clones)
1967 - 78 producers; today >250

Quality has improved over the last 20 years, with more emphasis on viticulture

1970s - Franco Biondi Santi trialed 40 clones and chose BBS11 for their soil

Regulated production system

Created by the Biondi-Santi family in 1967
Limited yields (Brunello - 8 tons/ha; Rosso - 9 tons/ha)
Strict aging requirements - barrel min 12 months (Rosso), 24 months (Brunello, Riserva); bottle min 4 months (Rosso), 24 months (Brunello, Riserva); Brunello min 5 years total
Samples tasted by the Commission panel
Appellation expanded ~20 years ago, now frozen at 2,100 ha
2023 - Rosso appellation expanded (550 → 900ha)

Biondi-Santi has a target style for their wines and matches vineyard lots to create style (~60% Brunello, 25% Rosso, remainder Riserva when made)

Some producers make single vineyards now (both Rosso and Brunello), but Biondi-Santi is not focused on that

The most expensive vineyard land in Italy ~₠1M/ha, a significant rise in 2015 when the 2010 vintage was released

Foreign investors (France, Brazil, Belgium, Swiss) are increasing the value of the land

Market for Brunello

The biggest is the US, developed by producer Banfi
Other vital markets: Switzerland, the UK (higher-end wines), Hong Kong, Italy

Sales Channels

Rosso - more casual restaurants, wine bars, BTG
Brunello - 50/50 on and off-premise
Riserva - mostly high-end retail as it is for collectors

Future of Brunello - hopes the focus is on value and quality and not higher volume

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Making natural wines right out of university, Arianna Occhipinti, founder of Azienda Agricola Occhipinti, has quickly built a strong following globally, particularly in the US. Discovered by Louis/Dressner at a natural wine show around Vinitaly, Occhipinti’s focus on expressing terroir through natural farming and winemaking and doing everything with passion has led to continued success.

Detailed Show Notes:

She finished university in Milan, started making wine in 2004, and is interested in natural wines that speak of terroir

Based in Vittoria, Sicily, she makes wines from reds (Frappato, Nero d’Avola), whites (Albanello, Zibbibo, Grillo)

Started w/ 1ha farm in Fosso di Lupo (Frappato, Nero d’Avola)
Cultivates a pluricultural farm for biodiversity - vineyards, orange, pear, wheat, vegetable garden
2006 - built a small winery
2013 - moved to another farm in Bombolieri

Terroir - limestone (lots of fossils), red sand, 250m above sea level, 8 km from the sea, 8 km from mountains, windy and dry -> lead to low pH wines

1st meeting with Louis/Dressner in 2006 at a Vinitaly adjacent natural wine fair

1st presentation of wines
Kevin McKenna tried the wines and got Jules Dressner to try them, where they immediately asked if they could import them
Still working together, they are “very pure people”
One of the 1st Italian producers that Louis/Dressner represented

1st trip to US (“Real Wine Tour”) - Louis/Dressner organized a young group of producers, with a lot of energy that toured the US

Traction partly from being an early mover in the natural wine movement

At the time, San Francisco (and Paris) were leading the world for natural wines

Natural wine bars (e.g. - Terroir Wine Bar)
Leading restaurants (A16, Bar Agricole)
LA (Domaine LA) and NY followed
Sommeliers promoted the wine and created strong relationships

Traction was a combination of wine quality and consistency, restaurant promotion, and good communications

Convincing people who know a lot about wine (e.g., sommeliers) helped

In the US market ~1x / year

Louis/Dressner did a great job of selecting wine producers and having good relations with their clients

Advice for others - do everything with passion, potentially spend more time on trips to spend more time with people

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As the 26th generation family member to run Marchesi Antinori, Alessia Antinori, VP and Winemaker, knows the benefits of being a family-owned business, particularly around transmitting family values from generation to generation. These insights and values are shared as members of an elite group of family-owned wineries, the Primum Familae Vini. Alessia digs into the structure of the PFV, its purpose, and its activities to promote family businesses globally.

Detailed Show Notes:

Antinori Family - started in wine in 1385 as wine merchants in Florence and became a producer in the Chianti Classico region

Alessia is part of the 26th generation, the 27th generation also in the company
Father was part of the important 25th generation - in the 60s/70s changed towards a quality mindset vs. quantity focus for most of Italy, e.g., launched Tignanello (1st Super Tuscan)
“Blending tradition and innovation”
Family members are not obliged to join the company but grow up around the winery

Primum Familiae Vini (“PFV”)

Founded in 1993 by Joseph Drouhin and Miguel Torres wineries
Current members include Vega Sicilia, Pol Roger, Chateau Mouton
12 members, family-owned, old world (the exception was Opus One w/ Mondavis and Mouton Rothschild)
When a family sells, a new winery is invited, often from a missing region (e.g., Jaboulet replaced by Beaucastel to keep a Rhone producer), look for high quality, shared values, and families get along (including children)
Exchange one case of wine with each other every Christmas

Family businesses are important to:

Transmit values from generation to generation (e.g., for Antinori - passion, integrity, obsession for quality)
Can make decisions for future generations (long-term mindset)

Two committees in the PFV - marketing & technical

Meet 3-4x / year virtually or in person
Meet at least 2x/year (1 annual meeting - 2024 in Oregon hosted by Drouhins)

Annual Meeting

Up to 100 people, several generations per family
Business meetings, lunches, dinners
Each year, a different family hosts an event and then becomes President of PFV for the following year
Topics - technical (Torres often has good topics), issues in family businesses, sales, legal issues, future PFV planning
Mostly, internal PFV presenters

Promotion/marketing events

2024 - after Oregon hosted a press tasting in Napa
Usually, press, charity, or walk-around tastings

PFV Family Prize - “the most beautiful company of the year”

Family-owned businesses, not only wine, must have 3 generations working in the business
Receive financial and market support/cross-promotion
1st year was a Belgian violin company
Given every two years
Do an event together with the press to present the award

PFV is funded by an annual fee from members

Collector Cases

Haute Couture case - 1 back vintage, iconic wine from each winery, only for charity, includes the PFV Passport, which is an invitation to visit each winery with lunch or dinner with a family member (many wineries closed to the public)
Limited Edition case - 1 recent vintage wine for each winery can buy for €25k

Advice for other family wine businesses - be very passionate about the work, be curious and passionate

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With 100+ years of history, many accolades, and distinctive mountain-grown sparkling wines, Ferrari Trento is still often confused with the car maker Ferrari. Matteo Lunelli, President and CEO, explains how Ferrari Trento leverages partnerships, including Formula 1, The Emmys, and others, to tell its story and grow its audience globally.

Detailed Show Notes:

Ferrari Trento overview

Founded in 1902 by Giulio Ferrari
1952 - Bruno Lunelli (Matteo’s grandfather) acquired the winery
Trento DOC in NE Italy, in the middle of the Alps, famous for the Dolomite mountains
A leading brand for luxury sparkling wine in Italy
Methodo Classico - 2nd fermentation in the bottle
Mainly Chardonnay, Pinot Noir
Mountain sparkling wine - gets sunlight, but big diurnal shift to keep acidity
Pioneer of Trento DOC, started denomination, now 60 wineries
Won Sparkling Producer of the Year several times
All estate vineyards are certified organic, winery carbon neutral

Il Ferrari (masculine, the wine) vs La Ferrari (feminine, the car); separate companies, no familial relation

Formula 1 (“F1”) partnership - “Official Toast of F1”

Started as a dream, Matteo passionate about F1
A team member who used to work at Heineken, which sponsored F1, started the conversation in 2019
Share common values of search for excellence, tradition, and innovation
Started in April 2021
Jeroboam used to celebrate wins on the podium, served in Paddock Club (hospitality)
F1 exploded with Drive to Survive movie on Netflix
New races started in Miami and Las Vegas
Formerly used Champagne, 1st Italian wine used to celebrate
ROI is measured by growth in international sales (US sales 3x, TX 10x, Las Vegas huge growth since 2020), increased attention from key international accounts

Key benefits of F1 partnership:

Visibility - social media key, particularly pics with drivers showing bottles during the celebration (easier to do for sparkling wine)
Paddock Club - >5,000 guests in Las Vegas, serves fine dining during race weekends, high-end clientele experience Ferrari Trento, fine dining, and F1
Create customer experiences - invite some customers to F1
Race weekend activations - organize and partner with events around the race weekend, replaced prior market work
Best article - Financial Times “Why there will always be a Ferrari on the podium of F1”

F1 label series - limited, special editions

Big interest in Jeroboams, celebrate like F1 champions
F1 Editions - dedicated to some of the iconic Grand Prix, the shape of the racetrack on the label, very successful in race markets (e.g., Suzuka in Japan had a long time to buy wine)
Creates a collectible wine

Emmy Awards sponsorship

Ended w/ Covid, sponsored for ~5 years
Served at Governor’s Ball just after the show, ~5k guests, black tie in LA
Helped in the CA market and positioned Ferrari as a lifestyle brand
Timed well w/the rise of importance of TV (e.g., Netflix/streaming movement)
Only 1x/year vs 20 races/year w/ F1
1st non-Champagne organized blind tastings w/ prior sponsors

Creating value w/ partnerships requires activation and communication; the rule of thumb is to invest at least 1x sponsorship fee in activations

Mass market partnerships like F1 benefit Non-Vintage more than vintage/reserve wines

Vintage/reserve wines sold mostly to collectors, highly limited supply (only 60k bottles of Giulio Ferrari/year), and need different communication channels

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With 88% of their wine exported, 93% of which is white, white wine is a big deal for New Zealand. Charlotte Read, General Manager of Brand for New Zealand Winegrowers, explains how they have been focused on promoting white wine globally. This includes campaigning for a white wine emoji, focusing on the the month of May with Sauvignon Blanc, Pinot Gris, and Chardonnay days, and focusing on their motto - “NZ wine, all together unique.”

Detailed Show Notes:

Charlotte’s background - dairy industry, lived in Asia and the UK, in wine for the last 20 years

NZ Winegrowers

Est 2002,1,400 members (50% wineries, 50% growers)
Only unified winemaking and grape-growing organization
Funded by compulsory levies
Mission: to enhance the reputation of NZ wine
5 key workstreams: Brand, Environment, Efficacy, Research, People

Tagline - “NZ wine, all together unique”

Supports the 10 wine regions

NZ exports 88% of their wine to 100 countries

Top markets - US (~40% of exports), UK, Australia

Focus markets - Canada, China

Focused on white wine (93% of exports) for May - 3 events, Sauvignon Blanc Day, Pinot Gris Day, and Chardonnay Day

White wine emoji - leading a campaign over the last few years to have this implemented

Kendall Jackson previously campaigned for it
Changed the glass shape to focus on white wines
Gotten great press
Reached >20M people in 2022, 79M in 2023

NZ has significant wine diversity - >50 grape varieties planted, SB #1, Pinot Gris, Pinot Noir (largest red, 3% of exports)

NZ wine style - purity of fruit, backbone of acidity

Marketing metrics used - estimated advertising value, reach and engagement, social media engagement, toolkit downloads

Lighter Wine Research Project - 7 years, $16M project w/ 18 wineries and government, led to the early launch of no and low alcohol wines (e.g., Giesen 0%, Kim Crawford Illuminate)

Overall, wine imports to the US are down, but NZ has outpaced the market; premium price ($15+) grew 15% in 2023

Targeting a group of “Generation Treaters” (mostly Millennials) - 1/10 of drinkers, but ⅕ of spend

Can cross-promote white wines - 63% of SB drinkers drink Pinot Gris, 67% of SB drinkers drink Chardonnay

NZ as innovators - moved to screw caps early (early 2000s), fast adopter of concrete eggs, experimenting with green tea as a preservative, no alcohol wine residual alcohol used for gin

Highest impact marketing - influencing the influencer (e.g., a WSET partner, work with Sommelier associations)

Major events

Has a booth at ProWein and Vinexpo Hong Kong
Hosts International Sauvignon Blanc Conference every 4 years (2027)
Hosts Pinot Noir Conference in between (Feb 2025)
Sommit - summit for sommeliers, a master class setting

Trends to watch

Sustainability (NZ has 96% of vineyards certified sustainable)
Packaging innovation
Growing wine tourism

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With insurance costs skyrocketing, having a good understanding of the types and amount of coverage needed for wineries and vineyards is becoming essential. As a broker for Country Financial, as well as the host of the Wine Crush Podcast, Heidi Moore describes what is necessary vs. optional for winery insurance and the changes happening in the industry.

Detailed Show Notes:

Insurance trends - very volatile now, Covid supply chain issues, wildfires / other natural disasters

Rates are soaring

FL/CA - natural disasters happening more, impacting insurance

If >5 mi from a fire station, insurance premiums can be double

Winery insurance is a niche market, so it is better to have expertise

Leakage & contamination are a big issue - often wineries do not have enough coverage
General liability and liquor liability are base levels of coverage
Rest is optional - a winery should look at what will break the business if it happens
Premiums based on gross sales, inventory, and assets (e.g., buildings, barrels)
Range of costs - small wineries ($1,500-2,000/year), larger wineries ($50-60k/year)

CA - many companies have stopped writing business

Sometimes, there is state coverage for catastrophe-only coverage

Insurers often value inventory based on “final destination” (e.g., DTC vs. wholesale)

A wine library with increasing value should be looked at annually to see if coverage needs to be adjusted

Vineyard insurance is different from winery

Farm policy for an agricultural commodity (e.g., for runaway tractors)
Crop insurance, which is federally subsidized, covers annual crop value and covers against smoke taint, fire, etc…; often can insure at different value levels of the crop
Can buy specific coverage for vines and equipment in vineyards
Climate change mostly impacts crop insurance vs farm policy

Base level of insurance needed for winery w/ vineyard

Winery policy - covers tasting room, production, buildings, the commercial business
Farm policy - covers vineyard, buildings, farming operation, home autos
Depending on assets - umbrella policy to cover assets (e.g., drunk driving accidents are expensive)

When to stop buying insurance? Need a good agent who is your advocate

Value of a broker vs. direct from the insurer - can provide different options of insurance, the downside is they do not know policies as deeply

Wine Crush Podcast

Share stories of winemakers, encourage people who do not drink wine regularly to try it
Mostly OR wineries, expanding to WA, ID

Key trends for wine insurance - circling in on natural disasters and how they affect policies

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With 27 years of research on the US wine consumer, the non-profit Wine Market Council is a critical industry resource. Liz Thach MW, the new President, dives into their most recent research on which wine consumers are buying, why, and how they buy. Members can get even deeper insight and access to the industry’s most robust database on US wine consumers.

Detailed Show Notes:

Wine Market Council (“WMC”) - non-profit, formed in 1996

Mission - provide cutting-edge research on the US wine consumer purchasing habits, trends, and attitudes
Members use WMC data for marketing and brand strategies

US wine sales

From 1934 - today - there have been several declines in consumption
The last decline - 1990s - showed similar factors, increased anti-alcohol groups, large excise taxes; catalysts to growth (French Paradox, introduction of new products - e.g., White Zinfandel, wine spritzers, Merlot getting popular)
Growth for 20+ years from the late 1990s, peaking during Covid
2022 - decline in volume sales, 2023 - decline in volume (-9%) and $ sales

WMC does a benchmark segmentation study of wine consumers every 2 years

Has done 19 over 27 years, the largest database of wine consumer trends
Boomers - drinking less (61% cutting alcohol, faster than expected)
Millennials - finally coming to wine, took until they were in their 30s (have children, bought homes, settled down, more financially stable); spend more on wine (often $20+)
Gen Z (oldest is 26) - had high wine adoption initially, but in the last 3 years, it has declined (“cool to be sober”); 9% of Gen Z drinks wine, though only 33% are of legal drinking age; concerned about transparency of products (saw food scares, recalls), climate, and social equity

Wine drinkers are 60% married, 71% own homes, 53% live in suburbs

Ethnicity diversification making progress

By 2050, the majority of the US will be non-white
Today’s wine drinkers are 66% White (vs. 77-78% in the past), 15% Hispanic, 11% Black, and 5% Asian
Significant progress with Blacks and Asians, but less with Hispanics, which are the fastest growing population in the US
Ceja an example of a successful Hispanic owned winery, links wine and Hispanic cuisine and been successful
Other ways to enhance diversity - ads that look like “us,” diversity in the workforce, pop up events where the consumer is (e.g., a Mexican wine importer did pop-ups at Hispanic events with taco trucks)

Premiumization is still happening, people drinking less, but better

$20+/bottle drinkers are now ~7-15% of the total US population
Younger people (21-30) purchasing more high-end wine
Boomers dropping buying more expensive wines

Where people buy wine

Supermarkets
Wine shops
Online now 12% vs. 5% pre-Covid
29% buy on their phone

93% of wine consumers on social media

1 Facebook (Boomers)
YouTube - 61% use
Instagram - 55%
TikTok - 40% (wineries can’t advertise, but influencers can post)
X/Twitter - went from #2 to #6
Wine apps - 17%

2024 trends

Anti-alcohol movement
Talking about the benefits of wine (illegal for alcohol brands to discuss health) - WMC launched a social campaign called “Wine is…” (e.g., wine cocktails, family dinners…)
Transparency/ingredient labeling (e.g., 50% of Americans believe wine has added sugar)
Low / no alcohol movement - 40% of wine drinkers drinking less (of those, 40% drink non-alc spirits/cocktails, 35% NA beer, 34% NA wine)
RTDs / single serving sizes

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Having gotten bitten by the wine bug young and with deep wine retail experience, Devon Magee, founder of Offshore Wines, decided to start a small wine importer. Inspired by Kermit Lynch, Offshore focuses on small, artisanal brands making high quality, yet affordable wines. Devon shares how he bootstrapped the company and is finding his way as an importer.

Detailed Show Notes:

Background - mostly wine retail, did harvests in France (Vieux Telegraph, Chandon de Brialles in Burgundy - 2012-2014)

Inspired by Kermit Lynch, he was interested in writing

Offshore Wines Portfolio

Christian Knott of Chandon de Brialles started a new project, Domaine Dandelion, and asked him to import them
2017 - 1st shipment - 4 cases of Domaine Dandelion, 20 cases of Champagne Charles Dufour
15-20 producers now
Goal: find high-quality wines made in an artisanal way from lesser appellations that are “affordable”
“Affordable” = $30-100 in US retail

Starting an import business

He did it on his own, with no lawyers
~2 months to get a license, ~$1-2k in fees
Need a licensed warehouse to receive wines (uses CA Wine Transport)
Self-financed 1st shipment

Cash flow is challenging

2-3 months for wines to land in warehouse (from France)
Restaurants/retailers get 30 days terms
Payment to wineries varies - most ~60-day terms from shipment, while others want payment upon shipment or 50/50 terms (upfront and on delivery)

Lifestyle is fun, traveling and visiting rural areas

Choosing winery partners - a lot is timing, being at the right place, getting to know communities, and very relationship-based; most wineries are referrals from existing relationships

Offshore differentiation - speaks the winemaker’s language (French, Spanish), worked production, and is building deep personal relationships

Wineries are exclusive to CA, and only market Offshore works, though they sell to a small distributor in CO
Focus on small producers precludes needing to be in all 50 states
Optimal portfolio size ~25 wineries to be able to respond and represent wineries well
Gets wine out for people to taste them, prefers personal connections over social media
Shares other aspects of what people are doing (e.g., got and gave away bags of coffee from a producer experimenting w/ carbonic coffee bean ferments, giving away sweatshirts from Domaine Hausherr with an artistic word game on the back)

Devon is the only salesperson now, and he would ideally like 1-2 salespeople

Other salespeople have opened doors for him to help him

Building small brands

Many people struggle with name pronunciation
He tries to share wines, stories, and pictures of brands
He doesn’t agree with the need for scores and tasting notes; he uses email to share stories, wants to publish a newsletter eventually
The new style of wine writing can help small brands - e.g., Alice Feiring, Ray Isle’s new book

Advice for others - be able to sell the wines

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As part of the importer series, Yi Xin Ong, Managing Partner of KOT Selections in Singapore, provides an international perspective. From Singapore’s 2-3,000 active importers for the small island to the impact of international media, Yi Xin describes how KOT navigates the importing, distributing, and retailing of its portfolio of winegrowers.

Detailed Show Notes:

Background

Founded KOT in 2011 - they couldn’t get the wines they were buying in Singapore, three partners
Work w/ 57 winegrowers, mainly in Europe, 6 in the US

Singapore wine market (~6M population, ~20% Muslim - don’t drink)

No 3-tier system, no gov’t monopoly
It is a pretty open market, like the UK
Many players are vertically integrated - import, distribute, retail - with lots of captive distributors and retailers
Very low barriers to entry - founded KOT in 2 months for S$200 to get licensing and paperwork
Horizontally spread - ~2-3,000 active importers (in 2011, ~700 importers, mainly focused on Australia/NZ with either big brands or high-scoring wines)
Two casinos / integrated resorts provided the spark for other wines (e.g., Marina Bay Sands opened in 2011)
Generally, 1-1.5 generations behind the UK and US wine markets

Took inspiration from other importers - Kermit Lynch (CA), Louis / Dressner (NY), Yapp Brothers (UK Rhone Specialists) - importing wines others were not

Yapp - focused on winegrowers
Dressner - spent a lot of wine visiting growers, good storytelling
Kermit Lynch - newsletters (1970s) were key to storytelling for the wine growers
Storytelling is critical to standing out in a crowded market

Sourcing strategy - most wineries they bought from personally (90%) were not represented in Singapore

Informal rule - 5 visits to winegrowers between the three partners before they import
Broad portfolios - easier to serve clients and fulfill their needs
Focused portfolios - clearer story and differentiation
Optimal portfolio size - ~50-70 to give each winegrower ~1 week/year of focus

KOT differentiation

Market knowledge
Links to trade, client base
Trust of the people (have only signed one contract, mainly handshake deals, exclusive relationships) -> been burnt occasionally with generational change

Build brands in Singapore - a very organic approach

Get the right people to taste them - professionals, and influencers / Key Opinion Leaders (“KOL”)
Host tastings every year, even for highly allocated wines (e.g., Pierre Gonon)
KOLs can drive demand

Int’l media have a strong influence - English is the primary language

More important than local media
Only the top few have an impact - The Wine Advocate (Robert Parker), Jancis Robinson (less emphasis on scores, more on editorial content)
Robert Parker had a big impact on the local market; a Singaporean bought the company
100-point scores can drive sales spikes

Consumer data/reviews can start trends, increasingly important

Vivino, Wine-Searcher, CellarTracker, Instagram

75% wholesale, 25% direct-to-consumer sales (mainly e-commerce)

Private clients saw KOT through the pandemic
Trade is vital for tourist demand

Singaporean wine trends

New regions increasing, Japanese and Chinese wines
Value increasing - ~$20-30 retail, ~$5-10 FOB
The low/no alcohol trend is not a thing yet
Rose has never been a trend

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With a portfolio of luxury wineries, including Domaine de la Romanee-Conti and Biondi Santi, Wilson Daniels has developed deep expertise in marketing luxury wines. With allocations, deep tracking of where wines go, and a heavy event schedule, Shannon Coursey, EVP of Sales & Marketing, describes how taking great care of the wines is critical.

Detailed Show Notes:

Wilson Daniels (“WD”) overview

Founded in 1978, they started as a domestic wine brokerage,
In 1979, they were asked to represent Domaine de la Romanee-Conti (DRC) and became an importer
Represents 37 families with ~50 producers, ~⅓ France, ~⅓ Italy, ~⅓ New World
Owns distribution in 5 states
~35 sales managers, sells ~600k cases/year

Importer role

Curate portfolio
Distributor management - make sure strategy is executed
Create messaging with the wineries
Pricing - for WD, keep consistent around the country
Education
Channel mix - on/off premise, national accounts, chains
Work with press
Keeping wineries top of mind in trade - does a lot of events

Sourcing

Sources wineries with estate vineyards, some with the ability to scale (~⅓ of the portfolio), look for regions where they will not take away from existing producers
At optimal book size now, additions could be grower Champagne or 1-2 new Burgundy producers
Grew portfolio a lot in recent years - ~20/37 families added in last 8 years, ~10 in last 3 years (including Gaja, Faiveley)

Distributor management

With RNDC and Breakthru in ~50% of states
Create groups within the portfolio to help distributors
Manage pricing, inventory, programming (sometimes)
Does not allow wine closeouts, prefers to buy back
Fast Start program - incentives for new placements, not volume
Wholesale Manager Bonus - for distribution managers, often trip-based
Other support methods - ask to be on focus, market work, getting the producer in market

Marketing wines

Crafting messaging is critical, and some producers already know what they want (e.g., Gaja wants to be known as 4 different wineries)
Does a lot of grassroots marketing - events around the country at top restaurants, visibility of on-premise placements
A lot of trips to wineries
Iconic brands - taking care of the wine from start to finish, the allocation process is essential (~⅔ of brands are allocated)
Lesser known brands - more about visibility, messaging is critical, can target a broader base (e.g., use more social media)
Luxury - 3 key segments - sommeliers, collectors, critics
For larger brands, does some consumer marketing: e.g., Bisol Prosecco - did 15 city tours, wrapped an Alfa Romeo car in Bisol green, did press, consumer, and trade events; went from 7k cases (2015) to 120k cases (2024)

Process for building brands in the US

Create messaging
Education - WD wholesale team, WD national team, distributors
PR launch kit and sales kit
Identify channel mix, including target account list
Events (very different for each producer - e.g., vintage tastings for Biondi Santi, Faiveley; Gaja - white launch, Tuscan properties, Sicilian tasting)

Re-establishing brands that had poor marketing (e.g., Biondi Santi, Dal Forno)

Need to work through inventory in the gray market
Don’t lower prices to match the gray market
Make a splash on new vintage releases
Dal Forno - launches in the US 6 months before the rest of the world, helps reduce gray market activity

Private client group / direct-to-consumer

~300 people by invitation only
Experience-driven
Members support the entire WD portfolio

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In part 2 of our series with Nick Ramkowsky, Owner of Vine Connections, Nick describes how he builds brands in the US market, striving to turn “annual” brands into “perennial” ones. Partnering with distributors both directly and working independently with consistency helps create a virtuous cycle of long-term relationships. Nick also covers his interest in sake and how it overlaps with sales strategies for wine.

Detailed Show Notes:

Two types of brands

Perennials - brands where accounts grow in value each vintage; very few become this
Annuals - need to sell the same case to a new account each year; everything starts here

The goal is to build brands into perennials

Getting to perennials includes having value in the bottle, packaging (VC has three designers on staff), relationships (finding the right spots/customers for brands and supporting the accounts (staff trainings, consumer events)), identifying champions on the distributor sales team, and press

Creating brand value as an importer - consumers believe in the importer’s book through consistent producers and quality across the portfolio

Consistency helps develop brands

Marketing strategies to build distributor demand

Press (primarily critics)
Effective distributor work withs (distributors need confidence importer will support them)
Creating credibility in the marketplace (trade events, work withs, samples, incentive/launch programs)
Can’t outspend more prominent importers for incentives, need to create unique ones - e.g., one supplier affiliated w/ custom made shirts, created incentive around the shirts

Setting suggested retail price (“SRP”)

Through tasting, looking at the competitive set, and where the winery wants to be
$1 in home country becomes ~$3 at retail in US

Sales strategies

VC has ten salespeople across the US
Do work withs with distributors, but also on their own to not overwhelm distributor reps
Partner with reps, sending recaps for follow-up

Sake - started in 2002

He went to Japan to work in a brewery to study the process
Had to make more accessible - standardized back label, 1st to put English names on front labels
They use the same distribution network as wine
Place importance on education; VP of Sake Monica Samuels is a great educator
Now, 20% of the Japanese imported sake market
Recommends drinking sake from a wine glass, at cellar temp, or warmed to order for hot sake
Kome website is more focused on the style of sake (e.g., fruity/floral vs. round/rustic) vs. grade now
46 prefectures brew sake - lots of expression of place
Gluten and sulfite-free

Wine importing trends - people drinking less, but better (Gen Z - less alcohol, and non-alc drinks, believes they will look at wine more as they age; value premium products that are authentic, smaller, good stewards of land)

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After falling in love with wine through a year abroad in Burgundy in high school, Nick Ramkowsky, Owner of Vine Connections, has built a premium national importer of South American wines and sake. Nick discusses the types of wine importers in the US, how he thinks about building a brand portfolio, and the keys to success as an importer in part 1 of this 2-part series.

Detailed Show Notes:

Vine Connections

A national import and marketing company based in CA and has a retail license
Focus on regions with winemaking history but not globally recognized
Started as a broker and distributor (when Nick was 25)
Worked with Billington Imports and met Laura Catena, went to Argentina, and fell in love with wines
Established 1st premium portfolio of Argentine wines (1999-2000) - least expensive wine was $24 retail
2002 - imported sake
2013 - 1st premium Chilean wine portfolio
Has wholesalers in all 50 states, including RNDC (#2 in the US), Breakthru (#3), and other smaller ones
30 people today, from 2 originally
Split company in 2 - Kome Collective (Japanese), GeoVino (wines)

Types of wine importers

All importers are also distributors in their state
Sales Geography - can be state, regional, or national; Vine Connections is national for control over brands all the way through, exclusive for all 50 states, contracts w/ producers outline the responsibilities of importer and producer
Portfolio Focus - world or specialized; Vine Connections is specialized in S America and sake

Role of importer

Bring wines in, warehouse, sell to distributors, & work with sales teams to sell to various channels (on-premise, off-premise, chains)
Work with press, do consumer events, lots of training and education

Sourcing wines

Looks at people first, then property, and consistency in product and pricing
New wines don’t cannibalize the current portfolio
Complementary driven by a sense of place and identity, even if the same region, varietal, price point
Looking at expanding to more regions to take advantage of the distribution network
Originally specialized to have more of an identity as an importer
Optimal book size - has ~120 SKUs in portfolio vs. ~900 at some importers and ~10,000 for RNDC as a distributor; optimal size varies by business model (e.g., focused on chains vs. independent stores/restaurants)
More in not better - high cost to inventory and more challenging to prioritize

Pricing wines

In general, SRP is fixed, but each state is different (based on freight & tax differences, distributor margins (larger tend to work on lower margins), and retailer margins (some take less margin)

Selling wines

Used to self-distribute in CA, now uses wholesalers (couldn’t service all the accounts, wanted to focus on national sales)
Distributor salespeople don’t have time to focus on everything
Importer needs to generate interest in brands

Key elements for success

Find good partners - share the same philosophy (quality, value, consistency), support each other
Vine Connections doesn’t add new wineries often (only one new Chilean winery); only one winery left in 20+ years
$1M revenue/employee benchmark for success

Vine Connections differentiation - good communications, both in transfer and transparency (e.g., sales by state), consider Vine Connections an extension of the winery

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To give their customers the ability to trade up and a broader selection than what’s inside their 1,900+ grocery stores, Albertsons Companies have launched Vine & Cellar. Curtis Mann, MW, Group VP of Alcohol, discusses the greater selection, wine description and storytelling, and flexibility Albertsons has with Vine & Cellar to complement their in-store offerings.

Detailed Show Notes:

Curtis’ background

Worked at IRI / Circana (database of retail scan data)
Worked in retail wine stores and restaurants
Was head of beverages at Raley’s (grocery) before Albertsons

Albertsons Companies

1,900 stores that sell wine
A lot of value wine, some specialty stores (e.g., Pavilions, Hagens) sell fine wine
West Coast - more domestic (~40% import, 60% domestic), East Coast - more imports

Vine & Cellar (“V&C”) online wine store

Wine only now, no beer & spirits yet
CA only now will expand to others (e.g., WA, IL)
Extension on top of the grocery store website
Has a larger selection of wines (2,300 items vs. average 800-1,000 at typical stores, up to 1,500 at some stores) - e.g., Super 2nd Bordeaux, allocated CA Pinot Noir
Wines are only available to ship via UPS (vs. in-store pickup or delivery)
Can use the same checkout process for groceries and V&C

Benefits for consumers of V&C

Curated wine selections that are representative of their regions
Buy groceries and V&C wines and checkout together
More flexibility - can do wine dinners, in-store tastings, wine clubs

Goals of V&C

Let customers continue to explore and trade up on wines and not trade out of Albertsons
Don’t cannibalize in-store, but more add-on, incremental purchases
Capture a portion of the wine DTC market

Online vs. in-store buying

More imported wines online
Broader selections vs more volume of the same wines in-store
Avg bottle price is $10 higher on V&C than highest in-store
~½ V&C customers buying iconic wines (e.g., Silver Oak), ~½ exploring (e.g., Burgundies in the $50-100 range)
V&C customer is both existing Albertsons and some new customers
You can put a lot more details/descriptors of wines online
Online buys in 6 or 12 packs to economize on shipping

Marketing V&C

QR codes inside stores
Vinecellar.com
Some ads on the website, V&C wines come up during a search for wines if they are not offered in-store
Events / PR
Napa Safeway has V&C featured wines in-store
Some paid search, Wine-Searcher

Loyalty programs - now Albertsons customers get promo codes for V&C

Wine trends - less high-end wines, people focused on value / high QPR

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2023 wrap-up for the wine business

Topics we covered in 2023

Sustainability (8-part series that had Drew Bledsoe to CEO of Silver Oak David Duncan and across the world from the US to Spain to Bordeaux)
State of the Wine Collector (LA, Dallas)
Leveraging non-gov’t organizations (VDP, Grand Pagos) to promote wine

Revenge travel

Post-Covid move back to in-person / offices -> delivery of wine -> reduced visitors to wine country and people buying wine to stock and drink at home
Americans Took Record-Setting Vacations In Summer Of ‘Revenge Travel’ - 32.8% of households went on vacation (a record since data kept in 2015)

Online retailer issues - Underground Cellar (April 2023), SommSelect (July 2022), Winc (Nov 2022, 1 year after going public) all went bankrupt, others struggling back to 2019 or even lower levels

More missing bottles w/ Sherry Lehman (~Mar - Aug 2023), Chelsea wine storage

Inflation / economic slowdown globally and impact on wine market

Bleak outlook for 2024 as fine wine buyers narrow their focus - Liv-Ex indexes down double digits year to date; “flight to quality” - Bordeaux benefiting, Burgundy, Champagne down
Inflation is used as the “reason” many wineries increase wine prices
BBC article on wine pricing increasing - glass, labor, fruit - all getting more expensive and wineries increasing price; and burgundy/napa/champagne got very expensive, consumers starting to pull back
Many napa wines taking prices up to $300+ (Memento Mori - $225 -> $300)
Chinese consumption is as low as 1996 levels, - the peak of 19.6M HL in 2017 to 8.8M HL in 2022 (#8 globally) vs. US in the top slot at 34M HL

Global health/wellness; Millenial/Gen Z slowing down alcohol consumption

WHO says no alcohol is good for you (released a statement Jan 2023)
Gen Z drink 20% less than Mill, who drink less than prior generations - college-age abstainers went from 20% -> 28% in the last 20 years (to 2020)
Better non-alc and low-alc alternatives (kombucha, pot, mushrooms, better no/lo options for alcohol)

Is wine part of the good life?

Wine, particularly fine wine, is used differently than beer & spirits; it is also better from a health perspective
The Wine Access interview re-emphasized - the experiences with wine
The Italian lifestyle / holy trinity of the good life - cheese, wine, & bread

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As the podcast space matures, it becomes a more meaningful channel to market wines to consumers and create new experiences. 3rd time guest Amanda McCrossin, Host of the Wine Access Unfiltered Podcast, and AJ Resnick, CMO of Wine Access, explain their rationale and experiences in launching and building the podcast and associated wine club. From celebrities crying on the show to creating a 360 experience with their wine club and podcast audio and video, the Unfiltered Podcast continues to build traction, make wine more accessible, and build Wine Access into a loved wine brand.

Detailed Show Notes:

Wine Access background

Launched in the late ’90s, it hosted wine retail websites and described wines
2004 - offered wines on their platform
Curate wines (team includes an MS), tell the story behind every wine, excellent customer service, and technology (powers wine clubs like Michelin Guide, Sunset, Decanter, and Williams Sonoma)
Goal - to be a loved wine brand

Wine Access Unfiltered podcast

Launched in 2020
A wine podcast w/ conversations around wine w/ wine, but not about wine
Released every other week, 45 min - 1 hour show length
They have done podcast ad buys and have seen success
Format - Season 1 - talk about wine stories, mostly with celebrities
Season 2 - off more value add, more thematic (e.g., wine regions), added a wine club to drink the wines w/ the show (full 360 experience)
Has IG (>10,000 followers) and YouTube (>300 subscribers) channels

Listener base

They assumed it would be the same as Wine Access customers
They found it to skew younger and less wine-savvy, but very curious
Another way to connect with members

Traction

100,000 cumulative downloads
Past episode performance increases with new listeners
Holds people’s attention for an extended period of time
Most podcasts fizzle out after five episodes

Getting celebrities on the show

“Do you want to drink wine with us?” worked during the pandemic
They did a lot of cold calling, worked with a few producers
More prominent celebrities didn’t always have the best performance
Bert Kreischer’s episode was very successful; he cried on the show and then mentioned it and FaceTimed Amanda while on 2 Bears, 1 Cave podcast

Wine Club

Four wines for four episodes, sent every other month, curated by Amanda
10% off all Wine Access purchases
Includes shipping, can add wines w/ free shipping to shipment
Some wines exclusive to the wine club
Q3 2023 - Unfiltered Wine Club had more new members than any other club that Wine Access runs

ROI

The wine club helps cover the cost
The goal is more brand awareness
Retention through connecting w/ members in a different way
Content creation (audio, video) that can be reused

Podcasting

Spotify is bringing new energy to the space with a better listening experience (went from 15% -> 30% of Unfiltered listeners)
YouTube has a podcast section
Repurpose clips for social media is a best practice

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From an outsider's perspective, Jason Wise, director of the SOMM movies and founder of SOMM TV, has been able to find stories in the world of wine that interest a broad audience. To control more of the content pipeline and how the shows are distributed, Jason founded SOMM TV. Using "Somm" as more of a curator, SOMM TV has wine at its core and covers food, travel, and other alcohol, making it appealing to a broad (and younger) audience. Learn more about the business of wine films in this episode of XChateau!

Detailed Show Notes:

SOMM movie (2012) - Genesis of the movie

Made when he was fresh out of film school (where he didn't focus on documentaries)
Met Brian McClintic, who asked him to watch their tasting practice
Jason found the practice similar to a sporting event
Met Ian Cauble and found his determination to become a Master Sommelier

The success of the film

The obsessive personalities made the film
Builds to an actual event (the MS exam)
The wine industry was ready for something like the movie
Not a "wine film," a different way of looking at wine
Introduced a new group of people who can tell you what to drink (vs magazines)
Documentaries became popular with Netflix
Not made by wine people, the outsider perspective made it enjoyable for outsiders

Media business model

Movies usually have a distributor
Theaters are a big marketing arena for wine
iTunes - make a % of revenue
Netflix - pays the distributor a fixed fee; if put on the 1st page, it can reach millions of people. It often pays based on what it costs to make. They can own rights outright or rent the film
Amazon - get paid 6+ months after it's up, get a tiny cut of incremental revenue
YouTube - don't make any money on
Created SommTV to control more steps in the business model - more control of content pipeline, partnerships, and a place to premiere new films (e.g., SOMM 4)
Before Covid - events were a big part of the business

Media platforms

Hulu - Jason's favorite, takes the biggest swings in content
Stars - has the best movies
Netflix - very careful; content is very similar to each other; often licenses something then makes their version if it works (e.g., Uncorked is a similar series to Somm)

Cost of making films

Big range - SOMM 2 ~$100k vs ~$850k for another wine film made by someone else
Documentaries - can be millions, when there's real music, at least $500k
Do not pay people to be in the film

SommTV business model

Employees on salary, which is unusual in film
90% original content
It started with originals and, now, trying to license other content
Focused on wine, food, and alcohol; food is going to be a big part
It started the streaming service because it's an underserved audience, and wanted to super-serve them
Content pipeline - they would ideally love to have new content every day
Hundreds of thousands of subscribers (as of Jan 2022) - believes the potential audience is in the millions
"Somm" is defined by Jason as someone who curates - wine at the center, but food, travel, etc…surrounding it
Pricing - $6/month, $50/year
Lower cost doesn't necessarily mean more subscribers
Technology - a mix of own-developed and 3rd party apps; the goal is to bring the technology in-house

SommTV subscribers

Younger, usually 24-37 years old (~70%), middle class
Screenings/events - more varied audience
52% male, 48% female - women growing fast
Key markets - US largest by far, UK, Brazil, Nordic countries (not allowed in Iran or China)

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Frustrated by a lack of understanding of consumer taste preferences and a lack of data-driven decision-making about winemaking, Katerina Axelsson, CEO and Co-Founder of Tastry, built an AI and chemical analysis system to solve this. With custom-built algorithms that take chemical analysis and develop flavor profiles and a database of consumer taste preferences that map to the US’s 248M adults, Tastry is paving a new, innovative way to use data to make and market wine.

Detailed Show Notes:

Tastry was founded around 6 years ago, but 1st 4 were more of an R&D project, officially launched Dec 2021

The wine industry is trying to anticipate what consumers want
New wines have an 85% failure rate in the 1st year
People describing flavors in wine doesn’t correlate with if they like it

Tastry uses AI and Machine Learning with chemical analysis to break down a wine’s flavor

2 databases - wine’s flavor profile and consumer taste preferences that are matched together

Wine database

Analyze 10,000’s of wines/year
Chemical analysis is done in-house on standardized equipment but with proprietary software
The Top 2,000 wines based on IRI annually are analyzed to build a baseline data set as wineries’ samples are proprietary

Consumer taste database

Did double-blind tasting panels, asking consumers if they both liked or did not like wines; the negative preference is important for the flavor profile building
Consumers also asked analog questions that became the Recommended by Tastry quiz
Use algorithms to relate data and predict preferences for the rest of the population (248M taste profiles)
Can now predict individual consumer taste profiles if they take the Tasty quiz with 93% accuracy in how they would rate the wine
Palates are very unique; the largest cohort is only 13 people
Demographics don’t show a lot of differences in taste preferences

Customers - work with >100 wineries, 22 of 25 largest wineries

Winemaker use cases

Computational Blending - uses simulation to match profiles from different blends and adjustments; winemakers set parameters on what they are trying to achieve
Winery had to switch from barrels to adjustments to 5x production and used blending to get a similar profile
Navigating smoke taint (3k tons, $10M worth of fruit) - came back with a recipe that solved the issue
Maintaining year-over-year consistency

Winery marketing use cases

Recommended by Tastry plug-in for wine clubs
Look more at finished wines and at competitive sets and overlap of consumer preferences

Retailer use cases

Recommender helps get more niche brands discovered
There is more traction for e-retailers now; pilots with big box retailers
Dec 2023 - Tastrt will announce a scalable way to access a broad # of wines

Strong ROI - 44-215x, benefits mainly cost savings, increased revenue

Business model - Vertical SaaS with consumption-based model

Subscription to dashboard
Lab analysis of samples provides ~$3,000 worth of analysis for a $370 list price
Compublend - per simulation charge
Access to competitive data sets from the Top 2,000 wines
Pricing is the same for winemakers, marketing, and retailers

Raised ~$10M in funding from individuals, early stage VC’s, and strategic investors (wine, AI, retail)

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As the first iconic wine of Chile, Don Melchor has paved a path for many others to follow. Enrique Tirado, CEO and Technical Director, explains the vision behind Don Melchor, how it became an instant icon of Chile, and how it stays on top of its game.

Detailed Show Notes:

Enrique’s background - studied agronomy and enology, joined Don Melchor in 1993, became winemaker in 1997, in 2011, Don Melchor Winery was created and became CEO

Don Melchor overview:

One specific vineyard in Puente Alto on the north bank of the Maipo River at the foot of the Andes Mountains
1st vintage - 1987
127ha, 151 parcels
Mainly Cabernet Sauvignon
Uses ~60-70% of the vineyard for Don Melchor wine
~12-15k cases of 1 wine produced each year

“One unique history, one terroir, one wine” is the ethos behind Don Melchor

The remainder of the fruit goes to other wines in the Concho y Toro portfolio (e.g., Marquis de Casa Concha)

Becoming an iconic Chilean wine

It was 1st to create an “icon” wine in Chile
It was the most expensive Chilean wine on initial release
1988, 2nd vintage, was in the Top 100 of Wine Spectator - the only Chilean wine and a big deal at the time which established Don Melchor’s status
A string of critical praise - WS Top 100 9x, 3x in the Top 10, 100 points from James Suckling, Best of the Best from Robb Report

Export 90% of the wine to 70 countries; main markets include the US, Brazil, China

Becoming iconic today

It is easier for other Chilean wines as Chile’s reputation is more established
The country’s image is critical and requires collaboration with other producers
Consistency of quality is critical for both winemaking and the commercial side
Add value to the wine world - e.g., come from a unique place, have a unique expression and personality

May create a 2nd wine in the future

Staying on top

Requires a singular focus on quality and consistency
Need to focus on communication and optimizing the best routes to market
Wine critics are still important, and they make consumer communication faster
Customized routes to market by country (e.g., US, Brazil) and have offices in different countries

Sold by the Concha y Toro sales force

Have a specific team for premium wines
Not on La Place de Bordeaux

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As the #2 global wines & spirits company, Pernod Ricard seriously emphasizes promoting its brands globally. One method of doing this is its global network of Brand Ambassadors (“BA”). Fabyola Soares, Global Senior Wine Education Manager at Martell Mumm Perrier-Jouët, describes her team of 30 Brand Ambassadors, their mission, their role, and what traits make them great.

Detailed Show Notes:

Fabyola's background - studied to be a sommelier in Brazil, joined Pernod Ricard in 2013 as 1st Champagne Ambassador in Brazil, now oversees global education program and Champagne & Provence Brand Ambassadors (“BA”)

Pernod Ricard (“PR”) is #2 worldwide in wines & spirits, >200 premium brands (e.g., Absolut Vodka, GH Mumm, Perrier-Jouët)

Pernod Ricard has a range of Brand Ambassador programs

Programs overseen by brand owner
The oldest program is for Jameson Irish Whisky, founded in 1991 with 80 BAs in 15 markets worldwide
BA programs don’t span multiple categories but could represent similar ones, e.g., 2 Champagne houses
The scope varies by market - e.g., Hong Kong BA represents Champagnes and Provence, France - different BAs for each house, US - 1 Sr BA for Champagne

Champagne & Provence Brand Ambassador program

30 BAs, 15 international markets

Brand Ambassador roles

Targets trade and passionate consumers
Mission - “to win hearts and minds”
Engage in brand education, trade activation, business development, interact with media/journalists, organize cellar master visits, and teach wine certification programs
Collaborates with marketing and commercial teams
Don’t sell wine - commercial teams (Private Client Directors, Prestige Sales Teams) responsible for sales across the portfolio
Career paths - can be promoted to senior BA or join global market and strategy team (7 former BAs work there)

Rare wine offers - mostly sold via auctions (e.g., 1874 Perrier-Jouët sold at Christie’s in 2021 for a record £42,875) or private client directors

Key Brand Ambassador traits

Need to be credible and respected by experts - focus on formal wine training, launched WSET in-house and developed Champagne Specialist Course with the Wine Scholar Guild
Must embody house essence and be an effective spokesperson
4 key characteristics PR recruits for - passion for wine, strong communications skills, adaptability/resilience, and spontaneous charisma
Must be able to personalize interactions and customize messaging to meet customers’ interests
Prior relationships are a plus, depending on the level being recruited for

Building relationships

PR founder often said, “Make a new friend every day” - key for BAs
Commercial teams will make introductions to local customers
Connect with as many people as possible, often surprised by who brings in new business opportunities

Benefits of relationships with BAs - e.g., invitations to curated events and experiences such as the Belle Époque Society by Perrier-Jouët

Social media is more important in some markets (e.g., Brazil) than others

PR also has Lifestyle Ambassadors (part of the Marketing team) who have social media as a KPI

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With the aim of safeguarding the wines of personality from special vineyards (or “pagos”) from across Spain, the Grandes Pagos de España is a private group of wineries on the forefront of Spanish wine. President María del Yerro, of Alonso del Yerro, and VP Enrique Valero, CEO of Abadía Retuerta, discuss the history, objectives, how to join, and their new Terroir Workshop Series.

Detailed Show Notes:

María’s background - was a translator, husband took over family winery in Rioja, 2002 - bought a 56ha vineyard and started Alonso del Yerro

Enrique’s background - worked at Diageo and Gonzales Byass, became CEO of Abadía Retuerta

Grandes Pagos de España (“GPE”) history

2000 - 5 wineries established Grand Pagos de Castilla
2003 - included other wineries from Spain and renamed to GPE
35 wineries, all single vineyards
Pago is defined like “terroir”, a vineyard with different characteristics
Common Goal: produce exceptional wines that reflect unique terroir
Inspired by VDP and French concept of Grand Cru, but adapted to Spanish context

Goals & Objectives of GPE

Promote and safeguard “diversity and personality” of wines
Foster research and innovation
Conduct educational and promotional activities

Criteria for joining

Most wineries apply to be a member
Criteria - single vineyard, 100% estate fruit, min 5 years of internationally recognized quality, must pass internal tasting committee that assesses the personality of the vineyard
Most vineyards ~50-75ha
Some wineries may produce wines that are not Grand Pagos

Member benefits and requirements

Fees based on quota system by # of bottles produced (3 levels - <40k, 40-150k, >150k bottles), no winery is >500k bottles
Networking w/ other wineries; e.g. - winemakers meet 2x / year to share learnings
Promotion of wines domestically & internationally (e.g. - wine fairs, education)
No logo on label

Priority markets

Spain is the primary market
4 international focuses - USA (include for broader influence of press and blogs), Mexico, UK, Switzerland

GPE wines at least 4-5x more expensive than avg price of Spanish wine (~$40-300/bottle in the US)

Wine tourism program - many GPE wineries will showcase other GPE wineries in their tastings

KPIs for GPE include # of people at events, PR/comms results, results of last 10 years of new applicant tastings

Marketing GPE

Building CRM of trade / sommeliers from tastings to keep in touch
Partner w/ wine influencers, somms, other associations
Highest impact initiatives: US - big tastings; Spain - tastings w/ somms

Launching a new Terroir Workshop Series

Main push for the next 3-5 years
Global education program for concept of pagos and 35 GPE wineries
Starting in US, Mexico
3 brand ambassadors chosen and trained - help bring a 3rd party voice and local perspective on GPE
Partnered w/ Gregory + Vine - helped clarify messaging and identified brand ambassadors
Designed primarily for wine trade

Next priorities for GPE

Climate change
Global competition - need to maintain a high reputation
Sustainability and social responsibility

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Having existed through the glory and the doldrums of German wine, the VDP, the association of top wine growers in Germany, has set out to re-establish German wine as one of the finest in the world. With 20 years under its belt, the Grosses Gewachs (“GG”) system has elevated the status of dry German wines in a short time. Theresa Olkus, Managing Director, and Steffen Christmann, President, discuss the history, goals, and role of the VDP and how the GG classification is bringing quality back to dry German wine.

Detailed Show Notes:

Verband Deutscher Prädikats- und Qualitätsweingüter (“VDP”)

“P” standards for quality, those looking to produce top wines from top vineyards
The goal is to bring the global recognition of German wines back to when the wines were considered some of the best in the world
201 members (2023), up from 160 members (1990)
10 regional associations

VDP history

Started end of 19th century
A movement to counter the industrial winemaking trend
Created quality requirements (e.g. - estate bottling, wine was sold in auction by the barrel and bottled elsewhere; no additions except sulfur, sugar was added before)
Post WWI/WWII - cheap, sweet wines became popular
German Wine Law of 1971 - created quality classification based on must weights, varietal agnostic, leading to consumer confusion
The late 70s/early 80s - German wine quality sank (yields too high), and the law created consumer label confusion, leading to VDP revamp, focus on vineyard sites

Joining the VDP

1990-2023 - 130 new members, 1-2 new members/year
Must fulfill criteria, blind tasting, vineyard, and cellar inspection
You can’t apply or buy a membership; a region must invite a winery

Benefits for VDP members

Knowledge sharing
Leveraging the VDP brand (eagle logo) - an international sign of quality
VDP events and marketing
Exporting expertise - 27% of VDP wines exported

Leaving the VDP

1-2 members/year leave
Most coached to leave
Mostly leave post generational change - don’t want to follow VDP rules, quality not at the top level

Dry German wines

Traditional style before 1900
Germans drink as much dry as anywhere else in the world, and the reputation for sweet wines is an international perspective
Historically - 2-3% potential abv difference between entry-level and best wines. Today, due to climate change, the sugar levels are the same; only the yields and quality of site create differences
~60-70% of VDP members don’t make sweet wines, Mosel/Nahe most make sweet, Rheinghau ~20-30% do sweet

Grosses Gewächs (“GG”)

2002 - implemented in all regions, started w/ Rheingau 1994/5, Pfalz 1996
Created positive brand for dry German wines - increase in the average price of GG wines - 2002 - €16, 2023 - €40 (range from €25-150+)
German market response was positive, creating pride in German wines
UK pushback - writers thought dry German wines were too sour and lacked quality; last to adopt the new style, only in the last 5 years
Scandinavia - a hot spot for German wine
Elements for GG success - wineries can only make 1 GG wine from 1 Grosses Lage site; wines have gotten better
Significant markets for GG - used to be Northern Europe, Asia (China, S Korea, Thailand, Singapore)
Africa/India/S America - not strong for German wines
More than Riesling - Pinot Noir, Pinot Blanc, Silvaner

The next priorities for VDP

Renewing German Wine Law, potentially moving VDP classification into law
Sustainability/climate change

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As the wine director and partner of the Lettuce Entertain You restaurant group, Richard Hanauer oversees ~100 restaurants' wine programs. Seeing beverage sales grow from single digits to ~20% of sales, Richard discusses the role beverage plays in restaurants, sommeliers, the elements of good wine programs, and his newest wine country themed concept, Oakville Grill & Cellar.

Detailed Show Notes:

Lettuce Entertain You ("LEY")

~100 restaurants in Chicago/IL, CA, NV, FL, TX, VA, DC
Partitions of different culinary groups

Beverage impact on sales - can be 0% - 50% of sales

Fine dining and wine sales used to have a positive correlation
More casual concepts w/high-end beverage programs (e.g., luxury whiskey w/ casual BBQ)
LEY - Wine was single digit of sales, now high teens-20% over the last 20 years
The volume of sales driven through by the glass ("BTG") programs (e.g., RPM Seafood sells 4-5x Pinot Grigio vs. Sancerre, which is 2x the price)
Wine program drives return visits vs. initial visits - people come back for the person who recommended the bottle

Definition of a good wine program

Used to be verticals of great traditional producers
Now, more about how the wine program fits into the restaurant (e.g., Piedmont wines w/ Piedmont food)
Need good stemware; not great stemware
Wines at the right temperature and match the menu

Role of the Sommelier

Operations - wine binning/storage, ordering, tasting, building wine menus
When not involved in wine, they should be "hospitalians," helping with everything else
Best somms build relationships with wineries (get access to unique wines) and guests (getting them into the right bottle, not the most expensive -> brings customers back)
Average fine dining ratios - 24 tables, 1 somm per 12 tables

Somm turnover

Pre-Covid - average tenure 18 months
Re-training takes 6-12 months
LEY - tries to retain employees, treats them well w/ 401k, benefits, opportunities to grow career w/in LEY

Restaurant pricing

Rent is the most significant expense -> increases COGS for everything, including wine
Food/cocktail ingredients are blended together, but wine is not, making pricing a more significant issue
Goal - keep COGS down while holding price (sometimes achieved through relationship w/ wineries)
Try to get less available wines - have less price transparency
Markups lower on higher-end wines - standard markups would make the wines unsellable

Oakville Grill & Cellar - opened April 2023

CA wine area themed restaurant
Napa inspiration - "Never pretentious, never formal…very comfortable, pleasurable, elevated service & quality of food, rarely decor"
The entire wine program is from CA

Cellar Door - tasting studio w/in Oakville Grill

6 person suite
Partners w/ different winery every month
Re-creates the winery tasting list down to vintage and wine pricing
Gets training from the winery
Guests can sign up for winery, take home wine
~500 guests/month capacity (4 seatings/night, 5 days/week)
Winery requirements: right pricing (not low or high), interesting tasting list, pedigree, make sense w/Chicago's seasonality, open to all of CA
Also, BTG in Oakville Grill and usually on the wine list before and after

Trends for Restaurants

Authenticity - e.g., Aglianico w/ Neapolitan pizza
Wine getting more expensive -> The cost of building a cellar is higher, which leads to more focused wine lists

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In a valley of ever-increasing prices, Malek Amrani of The Vice, is trying to bring value and discovery to Napa. Producing 18 varietals from 16 sub-regions, The Vice showcases the full spectrum of Napa Valley at $29 a bottle. Malek is “going against the grain” in many ways - focusing on value, discovery, and underserved markets to build The Vice brand for the long run.

Detailed Show Notes:

“The Vice” named after Malek’s main vice of wine

Focused on value and discovery of Napa Valley

Production

27k cases total
~65% house tier, ~30% single vineyard tier (~20 wines/year), ~5% ultra-premium
1 SKU is House Napa Cab - ~11k cases
They make 18 varietals, from 14-16 sub-regions w/in Napa, a little bit of Russian River Pinot and Chardonnay
Sources both fruit and bulk wine

Cost mitigation measures

Secure better pricing through pre-paying for grapes
Being proactive - purchasing fruit from southern Napa vineyards in 2020 that weren’t impacted by fires, talked to 12-15 glass distributors to mitigate the 200-300% price increases

Focused on the wholesale channel (~80% of sales)

Spends ~75% of the time outside Napa working markets
In 2020, traveled every month except April working w/ retailers -> 100% success rate, added 400 retailers in NYC
FL/TX buy more single vineyard wines; NY/NE - very House tier driven, CA/CO - good mix
FL - a red wine state (driven by Boomers), NY - big in orange wine, nearly outsold House Cab in spring 2023

Customer demographics

Equal split - Baby Boomers, Gen X, Millennials / GenZ
Orange wine (~3,500 cases) - 75% Millennials / GenZ, ~25% Gen X
Single vineyard Cabs - ~85% Baby Boomers & Gen X, Millennials focused on lower price points
Appellations important primarily to Boomers who grew up with Napa becoming famous, Gen X sees Napa as a symbol of status, Millennials/GenZ appellation less critical, more price-driven
Believes Napa will remain important, driven by tourism - 4M visitors/year

Orange vs. Rosé

Swapped production of rosé wine for orange wine
Believes rosé hit the ceiling in 2019 - rose a more social drink, also very vintage driven with closeouts on prior vintages damaging brands

Spirits vs. wine marketing

Spirits has lots of product innovation, e.g., many flavors of vodka -> led to The Vice producing many different varietals and Napa sub-regions
Spirits spend millions on advertising -> likely would not work for wine; better for the brand to be built account by account w/ gatekeepers

Consumer awareness of The Vice

2020/2021 - spent heavily on Google, FB/IG ads, had to shift when Sept 2021 privacy laws changed
Awareness from a lot of referrals and through retail placements
Some social media, in-person visits, and press/media - ratings are still important
Pair wine w/ other vices - e.g., cannabis, candy, ice cream
Thinks about pairing w/ the senses - e.g., vision (most important), hearing, smell (linked to memory and emotion) - instrumental hip hop, sex toys for a bachelorette party
Works under targeted regions - e.g., Staten Island and the Bronx retailers
Likes to go against the grain - be more value-oriented vs. higher end

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Coming from a long career in technology, Kia Behnia, Founder of Neotempo Wines, was galvanized by the 2017 Napa fires to create a more sustainable path. This started in the vineyard, where he’s utilizing technology and leveraging real-time data to improve quality and decrease cost. Kia maps opportunities he sees in weeding, irrigation, mildew prevention, & automated crop evaluation as part of the foundation of a new “Smart Farm.” Beyond the vineyard, Kia has redesigned what sustainable packaging means for wine for Neotempo to address the most significant shortfalls of the industry today.

Detailed Show Notes:

Neotempo overview

Replanted vineyard (Kiatra), sold fruit, and now starting a winery
2017 Napa fires - nearly lost property, vineyards acted as a fire break, became the catalyst to focus on sustainability leveraging tech and innovation
Creating a brand for modern times, responsible and sustainable
Launching Fall 2023 w/ Kiatra Cab Sauv, ~$250/btl
We will roll out less expensive wines in the future

Tech in the vineyard

Can help solve the labor shortage (cost of labor in Napa up 38% in last two years)
Large opportunities - weeding, irrigation, mildew prevention, automated crop evaluation
The use of data in the vineyard is low; data is available but not integrated

Vineyard Tech examples:

1) VineView - scans the vineyard to monitor vigor

2) Phytech - monitors soil temps for irrigation; installed 30 sensors across 4 acres / 4,000 vines; measure the stress level of vines to inform watering vs. scheduled watering

Used 25% less water
Able to do pre-watering for upcoming heat stress events (in a morning of high heat, 3-hour events) -> only lost 5% of the crop in 2022 vs. much more at other vineyards
Gets real-time data at 3ft and 1ft under the soil and at canopy level
Extending to misters in 2023 to control temp and hydration more

3) Crop Evaluations - establish the health of the vineyard at individual vine level

Mapped and graded each vine 0-6 (0=blank, 1=rootstock only, 2=dead vine…6=healthy vine)
Graded during the 7 stages of the growing cycle, including 1 week before harvest -> helps determine the replanting schedule
It also uses grape samples and lab analysis (phenolics) as inputs

Exported all data into the analytics platform to do more reporting and analysis

No vineyard farming platform yet, mainly just products and features

ROI of vineyard tech - only invests in positive NPV projects

The cost of farming went slightly up
Believes innovation will reduce labor requirements
Will create new capabilities - e.g., disease prevention

Challenges to moving forward

Lack of entrepreneurship culture in farming
Lack of funding
Lack of openness of farmers to adopt new technologies

Neotempo packaging - building architecture for sustainable 750ml wine bottle

Designed own lightweight, high-end bottle (550g, 40% lighter than alternatives, 100% recycled glass)
Temp-controlled styrofoam alternative, no plastic - every component recyclable or compostable

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Continuing our two-part episode, William Kelley, Deputy Editor of The Wine Advocate, expounds on the evolution of the business elements of Bordeaux. From La Place de Bordeaux to wine critics' score compression, Williams shares his view on how these institutions are changing and evolving their place in Bordeaux and how that impacts big and small chateaux.

Detailed Show Notes:

La Place de Bordeaux

Latour's leaving the en primeur system, but not La Place, did not have a meaningful impact, outside of when the wine is delivered, and did not tempt anyone else to leave en primeur or La Place
Focused on the Top ~50-150 Bordeaux wines
Now represents several non-Bordeaux wines, giving a bit more glamor for negociants to sell
More consolidation is happening in the negociant space
Negociants now do not have the time nor capital to care about "petite" chateaux
Several business models emerging, including high margin or high turnover with less inventory kept
Not a great way to build durable customers (e.g., may sell in Korea one year and Costco in Wisconsin the next)

Petite chateaux - need to differentiate and find direct distribution to be successful

Implications of health trends, consumers drinking less

Wine with great personality continues to benefit
Bulk wines, lower-end wines struggling (e.g., lower-end Bordeaux wines, petite chateaux)

Wine Critics

Scores are getting inflated and compressed - lots of new critics are coming around and pushing scores up
William believes a more credible review is more worthwhile than high scores on their own
E.g., Burgundy doesn't get high scores, yet sells very well
William publishes en primeur scores before the 1st release, therefore can't tell if they have any impact on pricing

Next for Bordeaux

The 2019 vintage had lots of good deals with Covid impacts and price increases of Burgundy, making people interested in Bordeaux again
The region needs to get people back to Bordeaux who have given up on it

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Deputy Editor of The Wine Advocate, William Kelley, who recently took over reviewing Bordeaux, as well as Burgundy and Champagne, amongst others, and former guest on E62 (Evolution of the Wine Critic) and E68 (Burgundy), takes a deep dive into the current state of Bordeaux in this two-part episode. First, William tackles the history of Bordeaux and how it achieved greatness as one of the top wine regions globally to its recent decline relative to Burgundy.

Detailed Show Notes:

Bordeaux was William’s 1st love of wine, part of its charm being its everywhere and always accessible relative to Burgundy’s scarcity

The Rise of Bordeaux

France’s most successful “commercial” wine - Bordeaux is a trading port city on the Atlantic, commerce is key to its identity
Wine was mostly an export product vs Burgundy was drank mostly by nobility, was also harder to travel
Robert Parker was a big supporter of Bordeaux vs. Burgundy, which was less of a focus

Bordeaux’s downfall

Lost commercial influence over the past 20 years
Conversation of wine has been around “terroir” and the Burgundian model
Aggressive pricing (particularly of 2010 en primeur campaign) also drove away many traditional customers - many wines still not worth what they were sold for en primeur from the 2009 and 2010 vintage campaigns
Worries that 2022 may have a similar fate

Bordeaux strategies

Some are trying to replicate Bordeaux scarcity (produce less Grand Vin, more 2nd / 3rd wines) - the region/producer may be too big for this strategy to work
Trying to copy other successful wine region styles (e.g., Napa, Super Tuscans; Int’l Sauvignon Blancs for whites)
William believes the best path is to keep what’s unique about the region but improve quality to make wines more approachable (e.g., more precise block harvesting, canopy management, etc.)

There’s an overreliance on vintage for Bordeaux; many great wines are made in lesser vintages

Winemaking trends

Since the 1982 vintage, new prosperity led chateaux to invest in new wineries, the focus was in the cellar
Recently, the push has been for vineyard improvements, promoting soil health and rooting systems, canopy management, and rootstocks and clones, though these take generations to implement

Sales focus

Salespeople in Bordeaux are not winemakers vs. Burgundy, where they are vignerons
Critics often taste at negociants, not at wineries
William was one of the 1st critics to walk the 1st growth vineyards in decades

La Place de Bordeaux

Suitable for big chateaux w/ pre-existing reputations, not small ones
Petite chateaux - struggling and hard to survive

M&A - can increase top chateaux production, especially of 2nd wines, where they can often get 2-3x the price of former wines

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Accidentally filling the big shoes of Michael Broadbent and Steven Spurrier, Jane Anson, wine critic, author of Inside Bordeaux, founder of janeanson.com, and former Bordeaux correspondent for Decanter for nearly 20 years, is one of the world's foremost experts on the wines, history, and region of Bordeaux. Having lived in Bordeaux since 2003, Jane shares her deep insights into how Bordeaux became as famous as it is, how the systems of La Place de Bordeaux and En Primeur work, and the complex terroir of the region. She gives us insight into the content of janeanson.com and how it will be a unique look into Bordeaux, focusing on the drinkability of the wines and many of the unique features to be released.

Detailed Show Notes:

Bordeaux Overview

A port city far enough inland to be a safe port
12th century - duchy of the English crown, wines were sold in the London market
The system of chateaux, merchants, and negociants was built for export
Terroir is very complex (which may be why it's not talked about much), e.g., of the 61 wines in the 1855 Medoc classification, all of them are on 2 specific gravel terraces (#3 & 4) of the 6 terraces of the Medoc
Mostly clay underneath with gravel on top
Lots of micro terroirs
St Emilion - has pure limestone, clay, and gravel

Issues that have hurt Bordeaux

Every vintage is not great, though Bordelais often say that
Frustrate people based on the prices they ask (e.g., 2009/2010 vintages - many people who bought lost money)

Advantages of La Place de Bordeaux

Business to business, sell to merchants that sell to consumers
Virtual marketplace - enables access to 10,000 clients globally
Includes chateaux, brokers, and negociants
Sells wine into every level of the food chain - has specialists for on-trade, off-trade, hotels, corner shops, supermarkets, etc.
It doesn't build your brand but makes sure it gets everywhere
Good at giving the illusion of scarcity
Can use La Place for specific markets - La Place has expertise in the Asian markets (e.g., China, Vietnam, Japan)

Disadvantages of La Place de Bordeaux

Creates a very competitive environment - low-end wines compete with each other
It protects Bordeaux well, and merchants need to buy in bad years to get allocations in good years
No direct contact with consumers for wineries
Less effective for small guys that aren't established brands

Non-Bordeaux wines selling on La Place

Gone from nothing to 60 wines 5 years ago to 90 wines in 2021
Provides access to global markets - shows wines next to the great wines of Bordeaux
Opus One - the 2nd non-Bordeaux wine on La Place (after Almaviva), has sold wines since 2004 and opened an office in Bordeaux.
Barriers to joining La Place - need enough volume to get everywhere, need to do your own brand-building work, and meet customers
The increase in overseas wines has hurt smaller Bordeaux estates -> negociants have limited budgets and drop them

En Primeur

From the early 1980s, Parker injected excitement into the En Primeur system
People used to make money, but now they are often better off waiting until wines are in bottle with certain exceptions (e.g., tiny production Pomerols)
No longer has the same sense of urgency
Tranche system - release a small amount of wine at one price, then release more later at higher prices
non-Bordeaux wines price more consistently than Bordeaux wines
Latour dropping out of en primeur, they wanted to store wines and release them when best for consumers
Chateau Palmer - sells 50% en primeur, 50% 10 years later

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Checking in on how collectors are weathering current economic conditions, John Jackson (IG: attorneysomm; YouTube: attorneysomm) provides insight into the Dallas, Texas wine market. From their wine clubs to how collectors learn about new wines and buy them, John delivers deep insight into the Dallas market as of May 2023. John also details some of his journey on social media with Instagram and YouTube.

Detailed Show Notes:

John’s background

Attorneysomm on Instagram (27k followers) and YouTube (7,000+ subscribers)
Dallas based collector, lawyer, WSET Diploma
Cellar is ~2,000 bottles

Dallas Wine Clubs

Like a country club for wine lovers
Each club has ~100-125 members
Annual dues (~$1,500-2,500/year) and must meet a minimum wine spend through the club’s retail
Includes a wine locker (48 bottles), hosts winemaker and distributor tastings, sells wines through distributors and brokers wine collections
Driven by TX wine laws - restaurants w/ full bars are not allowed to do corkage
Graileys - more focused on celebrities and athletes now
Roots and Water - John is a member, currently 2 locations
55 Seventy - opened 1-2 years ago

Collector demographics are becoming more female over time from heavily male

Dry January is relevant, but interest in wine is increasing

Regional buying focus

Top 4 regions - Bordeaux, Champagne, Napa, Burgundy
In John’s collection - he buys the most Champagne, but California is #1 in the cellar (due to large prior buying), with Bordeaux and Rhone next
Spain and Italy are relevant but smaller
Pichon Lalande is popular in Dallas - more expensive in Dallas than in other markets

Introductions to new wineries

Primarily through club distributor tastings & winemaker visits
Visits to wine regions (collectors go ~2-3x/year)
Social media

Wine pricing

Increases have made people more selective w/ purchasing; some have paused and drinking down cellar, waiting for pricing to come down
Some prices are double what they were before, especially Burgundy
Auction house reached out soliciting wine to sell, claiming the market is at all-time highs
Price increases in bad vintages (e.g., 2017 & 2020 Napa) are negative buying signals

Wine buying

From club - ~33%, mostly at distributor tastings
Online sources - ~33%, for older bottles, back vintages (e.g., Benchmark wine); collectors drinking mostly ‘90s Bordeaux and earlier
Winery direct - ~33%, for domestic wines, mostly mailing list/allocation systems, don’t like clubs b/c no control over what they receive; John was in ~15-16 mailing lists, now ~4-5); people culling their lists
“Cellar Defenders” - wines to drink that protect wines in the cellar; e.g., Willamette Valley, Rioja (Lopez de Heredia), Châteauneuf du Pape (Pegau)
Harder to get older wines than before (e.g., Champagne, Napa)

Social media

Instagram - spends less time engaging and more preparing content; posts more high-end wines
YouTube - active wine community, tends to be more value-focused, took a long time to reach critical mass (1st 3 months - 100 subscribers; +6 months to 1,000; 15 more months to 7,000); people want to know what wines to buy (e.g., Top 10 wines under $50)
Influencers now need to be more proactive in finding opportunities vs. being actively approached during the pandemic

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Trained in chemistry and born blind, Hoby Wedler, an entrepreneur and sensory expert, has trained his palate to pick up aromas and nuances in wine more acutely than most. Hoby describes how he does "Tasting in the Dark," which helps wineries connect with buyers and his thoughts on accessibility in the wine industry.

Detailed Show Notes:

Hoby's background

Born blind, studied history and chemistry (Ph.D.)
Francis Ford Coppola asked him to design a blindfolded wine experience, which became "Tasting in the Dark"
Went into food & beverage, consulting on product development, comparative set tastings, and aligning wines with wine critics' palates

Tasting in the Dark structure

Try to make people feel comfortable under blindfold
Use eye masks to change attention away from sight
Prime the aromatic vocabulary w/ samples of aromas found in wines
Create memories through a truly blind tasting
Most impactful for trade teams, distributors, buyers, and for higher-end wines w/ 3-tier distribution
E.g., Coppola did tasting for Safeway Group (grocery w/ wine stewards) and saw a significant increase in sales at Safeways for 5+ years afterward

Reasons people buy wine

Like the label
Read about the wine
Like the story, particularly for premium wines ($20+)
Most consumers don't know what they're looking for
Blind tasting helps imprint a story with the wine in people

2018 - Thomas Keller used Tasting in the Dark to train front-of-house staff to enable them to describe food and drinks better

Aligning w/critics' palates

Mostly aligned on aromatics and mouthfeel, abv levels
Wineries can adjust when to send certain wines to critics

Sometimes helps wineries w/ blending

Wine & accessibility

Chapoutier is classic example w/ braille labels
Accessible websites important
QR Codes put in the same place can help bring people to accessible websites
This can lead to unexpected benefits; e.g., wheelchair ramps were found to be useful to many more than those in wheelchairs

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Fueled by the pandemic, grocery stores have made significant investments in selling digitally, with wine being an essential growth category for online sales. With estimates of ~$6B in wine sold through online grocery by 2025, Jessica Kogan, Chief Growth & Experience Officer of Vintage Wine Estates, gets into the trends, key success factors, and the opportunity that online grocery represents.

Detailed Show Note:

Vintage Wine Estates (Ticker: VWE)

11th largest wine holding company in the US
12 wineries, a couple of digitally native businesses, 12-15 lifestyle brands
Heavy focus on DTC

Online grocery trends

By 2025 - 22% of Americans will buy groceries online (i.e., anything not in-store and digitally enabled)
Alcohol is the fastest growing segment for online grocery - by 2025 - $5.97B in wine online from <$1B in 2018 vs. $7.97B DTC from wineries in 2025
Target saw 4x amount of alcohol when bought online vs. in-store purchases in 2021, most of which was wine
Digital grocery brings up basket size and provides more flexibility for consumers (e.g., curbside pickup; Target provides lots of flexibility)
~50% digital is pickup, ~50% delivery today

Post-pandemic trends

Wine DTC is seeing slower growth, but online grocery is continuing to grow
Covid led to increased investment by grocery in online
Grocery has goals of going beyond grocery into becoming a “lifestyle” store, e.g., leaning into wellness

Why consumers enjoy buying wine online

Feel overwhelmed by the selection of in-store
Like learning about the background and story of brands
Often use phones in-store to learn more about brands
Gen Z - born digitally, love stories & authenticity, committed to wellness - makes wine compete w/ RTD cocktails and hard seltzers
Consumers are more open to taking risks on new brands online

Selling into grocery stores

Believes in-store demo events are powerful
Making the story accessible and easy (e.g., QR codes on labels) key

Selling in online grocery

Uses Salsify (a “PIM” - product information manager) to publish info to grocery stores, allows producers to control data shown to consumers
94-95% of searches for wine are by varietal (or basic descriptors like red/white), not by brand
Digital algorithms - can’t buy ads due to Tied House Laws, but can influence algorithms w/ customer reviews or customers saving products
Using metadata to show up as recommended product vs. search displays helpful
Being in the “above the fold” carousel of products where consumers don’t need to scroll down is vital for sales, as big as being on the end-cap in-store

Tips for brands for online grocery

Have a website w/ e-commerce - helps understand the whole process
Go w/ distributors to stores w/ digital info for products

Future trends for online grocery

Virtual tastings will continue
More information on wellness and wine
Women to play an essential role in connecting w/ customers since most grocery buyers are women

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Grocery stores are one of the biggest sales channels for wine. Curtis Mann, Group Vice President of Alcohol of the Albertson’s Companies, gives us the inside scoop on buying trends, how to sell into Albertson’s, and the rise of the use of digital. Learn about the dynamics of the grocery wine market and what makes Albertson’s “locally great, nationally strong.”

Detailed Show Notes:

Grocery as part of the wine market

Multi-outlet wine market ~$12-13B / year
Total wine market ~$60-70B / year (multi-outlet ~20% of the total market)

Albertson's Companies' wine overview

~25 different grocery brands, ~2,000 stores
Wine is a key element of business - it drives sales and customer loyalty, some customers come to stores because of the wine selection
Some stores have up to 3,000 wine SKUs
Stores with more premium selections are correlated with location (high socio-economic demographics) vs. grocery store brand
The focus is more on the “premium” price segment ($9+ based on IRI)
Top brands - Barefoot, Kendall Jackson, up-and-coming brands - Butterl Josh, but wine is very diversified, big brands are still a small part of the market
Premiumization helping imports, including New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc

Wine buying trends

Consumers are called to authenticity - they want to know what’s in their wine, the appellation, sustainability, and organic
Convenience - cans, seltzer, ready to drink
Premiumization - $10-20/bottle, $30-50/bottle, up to $100/bottle (e.g., high-end Bordeaux, Napa Cabernet) ranges all doing well, some categories accelerating with potential out-of-stocks

Wine customer demographics

Gen X & Baby Boomers - still buying a lot (more in bulk and volume), but less than before
Millennials are the new customers - buying more, less loyal to wine vs. other drinks, and have less expendable income; their preferences are different from Gen X and Baby Boomers
To meet the changing demographics, Curtis looks forward 3-5 years to develop his shelf set/selections of wine

Promotions/discounting

Limited brand loyalty in wine, customers often default to price
Promotions are very important
Need to work between price and product to optimize sales and not over-rely on price

Wine selection

What does it mean to customers? Each wine must have a purpose vs. the other ~1,500 SKUs on the shelf
Tagline - ‘locally great, nationally strong’; try to give local stores more voice (e.g., Portland stores have more Willamette Valley Pinot Noirs)
Flagship Stores (e.g., Andronico’s, Pavilions) - higher-end, eclectic offerings
Steps to sell into Alberston’s - have the 4 P’s put together - distribution network, pricing, product, and where you fit on the shelf
Generally need to place wine 4-6 months in advance
Needs a UPC code on the bottle

Private Label/“Own Brand” wines

The goal is to provide the best price to value for customers
The intent is to drive loyalty
Not a dominant part of the business
Trying to create wines that are a draw and get good scores
Selection is built around education, the desire to learn about the wine category through own brands
Suppliers have connections to maintain supply, which can help Own Brands overcome supply challenges (e.g., 2020 Napa, 2021 New Zealand)

Core elements of success for the grocery channel

The selection keeps people in the store
Relating the wine to the food in the store (food-wine pairing)
E-commerce
Convenience (e.g., ready to drinks)

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Being a celebrity helps and hinders the launch and selling elements of a wine venture. Kyle MacLachlan, an actor with a broad base of work from Twin Peaks to Sex & the City to The Flintstones, details his journey of starting Pursued by Bear (“PBB”) in Walla Walla, Washington and how he thinks about imbuing his personal brand with the wine brand. From getting approval for the brand name from Steve Martin to designing his newly launched tasting room, Kyle weaves his stories around how branding has worked for PBB.

Detailed Show Notes:

Kyle’s background - an actor, including Cooper from Twin Peaks, Sex & the City, Desperate Housewives, How I Met Your Mother, and one of his favorites is The Flintstones

He just wrapped filming of Fallout for Amazon, based on the video game
He grew up in Eastern Washington, always been a wine drinker over beer & spirits
Met Ann Colgin & Doug Shafer in Napa and wanted to start a Napa brand in the late 1990s, but it was too expensive
His wife pointed him to WA wine, met Eric Dunham looking for a WA Syrah for his wedding, and partnered in 2005 to launch Pursued by Bear

PBB

~3,000 cases, 5 wines
PBB Cab Sauv (launched ‘05; ~500 cases) - was Cab, Syrah, Merlot blend, now Bordeaux blend
Baby Bear Syrah (launched ‘08, ~300 cases)
Rose (launched ‘15)
Bear Cub (launched ‘16, ~1,000 cases) - an entry-level red blend
Twin Bear - “prestige wine,” 100% Cabernet

Winery name

He wanted it to speak to his ‘day job’ of acting and bring it back to the theater, a Shakespeare reference
Refers to a stage direction in Winter’s Tale - “Exit, pursued by a bear”
Steve Martin approved of the name, which solidified it

Kyle’s role at PBB

Took over 100% ownership of the brand in 2016
Very involved in the business, hands-on with operations (e.g., copywriting for labels) and parts of winemaking (e.g., blending trials)
Dan Wampfler winemaker since 2008

Leveraging celebrity

Has helped bring attention to wine (e.g., using personal social media), but most fans aren’t wine people
Gotten more press than otherwise
Some product placement (has been in the background of Desperate Housewives and How I Met Your Mother - like an “easter egg”)
Tries to be an ambassador for WA State wines
Made short videos during the pandemic - “Beary Tales”
It is a hindrance at times as people think wines aren’t good
Hollywood connections have not helped much - many aren’t big wine drinkers or collectors

Customer acquisition

Most effective has been 1:1 hand selling
Opening a tasting room in Walla Walla - April 2023
Zoom tastings were effective at selling wine during the pandemic
He wants people to feel they are on a journey w/ Kyle around PBB

Tasting room

Designed to be comfortable - cork floors, oak tables, big bronze bear
Located in Walla Walla downtown - a wine-tasting destination, mostly from WA, ID, OR, and Canada
Very little acting memorabilia - a Twin Peaks bobblehead & mug
Spring Release 2023 - will have 3 musicians playing music, walking around town
Likes surprise and delight elements, has had discussions w/ an AR company about embedding elements, but hasn’t figured it out yet

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Educating students about wine is more about the “psychic paycheck” than the monetary one for Peter Marks, MW, partner and Vice President of the Napa Valley Wine Academy (“NVWA”), the leading provider of Wine & Spirit Education Trust (“WSET”) courses globally. Peter tells us about the different levels of the WSET (from Level 1 to Diploma), the full costs of wine education, and the benefits. He also discusses the innovations happening with online learning, including sending wine kits out with their courses and best practices for virtual seminars.

Detailed Show Notes:

Being in wine education is more about the “psychic paycheck” - getting feedback from your customers and students

Napa Valley Wine Academy

Founded in 2011, offering WSETbprograms
Now the largest WSET provider in the world
An Approved Program Provider (“APP”) for WSET - it’s like a franchise; NVWA buys materials, study packs, and exams from WSET; grading is done by WSET in London
65% of business in WSET, 35% in other wine programs
Develop proprietary courses - e.g., Wine 101, Wine 201, Napa Valley Wine Expert, Oregon Wine Expert, and the Business of Wine (with Tim Hanni, MW)

WSET

4 levels, 1 through 4 (4 is called the Diploma)
Levels 3 & 4 provide more understanding of the subjects
The diploma includes the business of wine and is a precursor for the Master of Wine program
Geared towards all aspects of the wine industry, very broad view vs. other programs (e.g., Court of Master Sommeliers is focused on restaurants/service, and Society of Wine Educators is focused on education)

Wine industry (or “trade”) participation in courses

Level 1 - ~90% consumer, 10% trade
Level 2 - ~75% consumer, 25% trade
Level 3 - ~40% consumer, 60% trade
Level 4 - ~10% consumer, 90% trade
More consumers are coming into the program

The benefits of a wine education, the 3 C’s of the WSET

Credential - showing your accomplishment
Confidence - knowing the facts about wine, speaking with confidence
Culture - participating in the culture of wine...the pay may be low, but being a part of the friendship and social aspects of the wine industry

~100,000 WSET students/year - now the “go to” wine education organization - it covers the entire industry and is global

Recent changes to the program - giving students what they want

Launched a Sake program
Split spirits from Wine for the Diploma
Introducing Beer soon

Virtual classes

Has always been an option - was called “self-study” and had to go in person to take exams
Exams for L1 and L2 are now offered online; L3 and Diploma cannot be because they include tastings
NVWA launched wine kits (wine samples re-bottled into small vials) for virtual classes - do virtual tastings with them; the wines are disguised to be blind
Had to learn how to better engage students online - using breakout rooms, polls/quizzes, reducing seminar times to 1-2 hours, best practice is to engage with students every 3-5 minutes
Do live webinars that are recorded
Pricing is the same as in-person, but no travel costs

The cost of wine education

Course fees, wine (for Diploma ~200-220 wines are recommended to know; wine can cost $500-2,000 for samples), travel
Wine kits are included in course costs

Scholarships - NVWA has several partners for scholarships

Wine Unify for L1-3
Wine Access
The Roots Fund
John Hart (former NBA star) - for the BIPOC community

The return on wine education

Constellation Brands paid bonuses for employees who passed WSET qualifications and also offered tuition reimbursement

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The hardest wine exam in the world, an elite community of >400 wine professionals, and learning how to engage with wine more. All those elements describe the Institute of Masters of Wine and the Master of Wine (“MW”) exam. MW Mark DeVere tells us how becoming an MW landed him a full-time job in Napa to all the rigors required to pass the MW exam. This a must-listen episode for those considering applying for the MW program or those who love learning about challenging wine exams.

Detailed Show Notes:

Institute of Masters of Wine (“IMW”) background

Currently, 418 Masters of Wine, >490 have passed the exam over time
It started in 1953 in London as London was the most globally focused wine trading hub in the world
~20 people sat the exam in 1953, with 6 passing; it was only open in the UK at that time
The purpose was to measure who was a master of the overall wine trade
1st non-UK residents were Australians and Americans who went to the UK to work and sit the exams

Now a global institution - MWs in 30 countries, exams offered around the world (London, California, Australia), head office is still in London

The mission of the IMW - is to promote excellence, interaction, and learning in the global wine trade
Interaction through tastings and the MW symposium (held every 4 years)
Excellence and learning through setting the MW exam
Not an educational organization like the WSET

IMW vs. Court of Master Sommeliers (“CMS”)

MS has a more laddered program (i.e., more levels before the master level)
MW has no practical service element
MS exam is oral, MW is all written
The MW Study Program
Goal: to help orient people to understand what the end goal is - to gain the depth and breadth of the challenge of the MW exam
Need to know every step of the wine business, from the vineyard to wine landing on the table
There are time limits for getting through the program now, ~5 years, with the goal of not getting people stuck in it

3 Stages

Stage 1 - 1st orientation to the program, has the Stage 1 assessment - proving you can understand the issues, 12 wines blind, 1 set of theory essays
Stage 2 - preparation for the MW exam, which is 3 x 2.25-hour blind tasting exams with 12 wines each, 5 x timed theory exams
Stage 3 - research paper, developing something new for the world of wine

Pass Rate of the MW exam

Used to say ~10% of people that sat the exam
Hard to calculate a rate due to people who sit multiple times and can pass certain portions of the exam
IMW is actively trying to increase the pass rate by making it more challenging to get in and sit the exam
~15-20% of people who enter the program actually complete it; ~75-100 are admitted to the program each year, and ~10-20 people become MWs each year
The value of the program, if you don’t complete is learning how to understand the issues around wine better, engaging with wine differently, and building communication skills

More people are applying for the MW program, and it’s becoming a more global program

The IMW and diversity

The exam is entirely blind, making it unable to discriminate via grading
Conduct outreach to all parts of the world to generate a diverse pool of candidates
~150 female MWs today

Being an MW

The title does carry some weight within the wine world
It got Mark a permanent job at Mondavi after being hired for only a seasonal position
Join a community of MWs, where giving back to the wine world is one of the core tenets

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There’s a lot of data hidden in a price…and a lot to consider by wineries when they set the price. During the Nov 2022 wine2wine conference in Verona, Italy, host Peter Yeung presented the five factors that price communicates for fine wine. Building off his research for Luxury Wine Marketing, Peter dives into the various messages embedded in a winery’s decision to set price.

Detailed Show Notes:

Wine2Wine presentation link

Defining fine and luxury wine

Vs. commercial or mass market wines which are more substitutable
For fine wine, the brand value is more than just the wine
It has different consumers than commercial wines
Different sales channels (e.g., specialty wine stores, higher-end restaurants, direct-to-consumer)

The fine wine consumer

For mass-market wines - more women, lower price points
For fine wine - older and male; however, more women buying fine wines

Fine wine pricing drivers

Costs more to produce (land, labor, packaging)
Higher willingness to pay from consumers
Higher brand value makes the wines less substitutable - e.g., entry-level Champagne is ~$50/btl high-quality traditional method sparkling from the US can be ~$25/btl

What price communicates (for fine wine) - i.e., what a winery is communicating to consumers / the market with their price

Value proposition to consumers - the offering a winery is giving their customers
Expected quality - higher prices tend to be correlated with higher scores, including in the Luxury Wine Database of prices vs. Wine Spectator scores
Brand reputation - getting a 100-point score can often make a wine trade for $300/btl; however, the many wines priced above that do so based on their brand value
Relative quality - showing how a wine stacks w/in a winery’s portfolio or against other peer wines; the most expensive wine implies its the best
Consumer willingness to pay - e.g., Liber Pater made an “original Bordeaux” wine from own-rooted vines, 500 bottles w/ the 2015 vintage, and ran a Dutch auction to set the price, a record 30,000 euros/btl

Price is more than one number; there are:

Suggested Retail Price (set by winery)
Average selling price (retail, restaurants)
Secondary market

Secondary market price from trading through merchants (e.g., on Liv-Ex) or via auctions

It gives wineries a sense of consumers’ willingness to pay
Often small volume - not enough trading for true price discovery

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Luxury Wine Marketing: The art and science of luxury wine branding

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This Library Release was selected in conjunction with the next episode discussing pricing and was initially released on December 2nd, 2020.

Robert and Peter discuss how luxury wines are priced, delving into the core insights from the Pricing Chapter of Peter’s book, Luxury Wine Marketing. They discuss the luxury wine price segments, the types of luxury wine buyers, and how you need everything to be working right to build a luxury wine brand. “You can’t just stick a label on two-buck-chuck and price it at $1,000.”

Detailed Show Notes:

Luxury Wine Marketing (“LWM”) was published in late 2019

It contains industry best practices for how to sell luxury wines vs. more “commercial” wines
Includes new research on the market size, customer segmentation, and frameworks for marketing luxury wines

Wine pricing segments

The overall wine market has an average price of $7-8/bottle
That makes $20+ sometimes classified as “luxury”
In LWM, luxury wine is more of a luxury good - where the product is used to differentiate
$50-99 - affordable luxury
$100-199 - everyday wine for the luxury buyer
$200-499 - special occasion luxury
$500-999 - icon wines
$1,000+ - dream wines

Luxury wine consumer segments

The Wine Collector
The Wine Geek - seeks knowledge
True Luxury Buyer - buys top brands
Aspirational Buyer - looks up to the True Luxury Buyer

Brand impact on price

Dom Perignon is a special occasion wine at $170/bottle vs. if it was $40/bottle
Price signals an element of quality
Price makes some people think it’s better quality

Strategies to launch luxury wines

Build Up - start lower priced and build up
Build down - start higher and build down
Need a good story and quality to back up pricing
E.g., Penfolds - from Grange to $10-15/bottle wines, Grange provides the halo effect for the cheaper wines as people associate themselves with the brand
Luxury branding - using price over value as the luxury driver, e.g., Harlan Estate

Luxury wine demand

Sometimes when you increase the price, you increase the demand
Two types of demand - consumption and investment demand
Wineries want people to drink, not sell the wines, to keep the secondary market high
Still need to have value - quality and reputation of the wines
Burgundy - driven by wine collectors who want the scarce and rare

Tricks and tips for buying luxury wines

Know what you like and target those types of wines
If you want something special - brand strength is essential, a la the gifting culture in China
Follow critics whose palates are similar to yours and track their scores to find values
Check out the best wines from less well-known parts of the world

Winery pricing strategy has four major determinants

Quality
Brand strength
Competition
External factors

How do some Napa wines come out of the gate pricing $250+?

Sometimes they leverage the brand strength of the winemaker
Primarily selling to friends and family
Sometimes they need to play the long game and sit on wines for a while

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With a lot of economic uncertainty in early 2023, the fine and luxury wine space has remained relatively robust. Charlie Fu, an LA-based lawyer, wine collector, Wine Berserkers moderator, and caviar purveyor, gives us his thoughts on the state of the wine-collecting market. From Dry January, how they find new wines, navigating price increases, and Berserker Day, Charlie provides a good overview of wine collecting from his group's point of view.

Detailed Show Notes:

Charlie's background - LA-based collector, lawyer, caviar purveyor, and @clayfu.wine on Instagram

He has a few thousand bottles of wine in his collection

Wine collecting group

~5-6 people meet for dinners in downtown LA
Total group ~20-25 collectors
Mostly early 30s-mid-40s, mostly male
Focused on Burgundy, Rhone, & Champagne

Dry January has become more common

Finding new wines

Recommendations from people in the industry, friends (including from IG), other collectors
Someone they know personally and trust
More guarded response when it's retailers recommending

Wine pricing

Seeing secondary marketing pricing dip at the top end
Retail release pricing keeps going up
Secondary premium key to keeping collectors buying a "relatively good deal"
He believes incremental price changes are less shocking than large shifts
People want to know why the price is escalating; communications are critical to significant price changes
There are thresholds when people stop buying - relative value, secondary pricing, and personal decisions on value

"Everyone's always looking for alternatives to Burgundy"

e.g., Willamette Valley Pinot and Chard are seen as "Burgundian"
e.g., Walter Scott as a white Burgundy substitute

Where people buy wine

Retailers w/ an existing relationship where they offer reasonable pricing
Brokers & auctions for the secondary market
Domestic wineries mainly bought direct, "as long as it makes sense"
Wine.com gets a reasonable allocation of high-end wine, but not flash sale or other sale sites

Mailing list/allocation systems

People don't like forced purchase quarterly - e.g., the wine club model
They prefer the optionality of offering systems
Too much choice in an offer gets challenging - w/ no US vineyard hierarchy (vs. Burgundy), it's hard to distinguish between the wines

Collecting groups has not shown interest in wine investment

Wine Berserkers

Site upgrade in Aug 2022 took some time to get used to
Berserker Day - 2023 was the biggest ever
Now two days, Preview day for "Grand Cru" subscribers
Tips for wineries:
Be active before Berserkers Day (e.g., Goodfellow Winery from Willamette Valley was very active and did well on Berserker Day)
150+ listings need to have a good offer and stand out with a good description and potentially catchy one

Collecting trends

Natural wines have had their phase
More small production wineries, often connected to more famous ones, e.g., sons/daughters of prominent winemaking families

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Jackson Family Wines is at the forefront of many sustainability efforts as one of the world’s largest wine companies, with >40 wineries. Though they have made significant efforts in renewable energy, climate change, and social impact; they have also done a lot with waste prevention and green purchasing. Katie Jackson, a 2nd generation family member, leads these efforts to become more sustainable and describes some of the major programs they’ve undertaken.

Detailed Show Notes:

Intro from Anna Brittain of Napa Green

Only 30% of glass is recycled, and 30-50% of emissions are from packaging and distribution

Katie’s background - 2nd generation, worked in multiple departments but joined the sustainability team in 2011 after it was founded in 2008

JFW background

Founded in 1982 as Kendall Jackson
Invested in high-quality vineyards across the state
Founded Cambria (1986) and Stonestreet (1989), now >40 wineries (mostly CA, 3 Oregon, Chile, South Africa, France, Italy, & 2 in Australia)

Broad sustainability programs with four current focus areas:

Social impact, including DEI - has an internal team called “idea alliance” to develop new ways to improve diversity
Carbon/climate change - most difficult goals - 50% reduction by 2030, climate positive by 2050
Farming/regenerative farming
Water management

2015 - publicly released a comprehensive plan w/ 11 different focus areas, including Zero Waste and getting more growers to be sustainable

Sustainability investments and ROI

Invested $18.5M since 2015
Biggest spend in renewable energy (primarily solar - powers ~30% of winemaking needs, installing a new wind turbine which will generate ~5% of needs)
Generated $19.5M in savings and gov’t grants
Lightweighting of glass has saved $1M/year in glass and ~$500k/year in transportation
Solar initially had a 6-year payback
No set corporate threshold for sustainability investment ROI

Sustainability team

Two full-time staff
~80 people in 9 working groups volunteer ~3-4 hrs/month to work on sustainability initiatives

Green purchasing - developed preferred purchasing plan, looking at more environmentally friendly materials

E.g., the sales team is looking at biodegradable POS neckers made w/ seeds

Waste prevention - critical for climate change goals, focused more on wineries currently

Achieved <2% to landfill at wineries; the rest recycled and composted
Mostly organic materials (e.g., composting)
Sister company - Whole Vine - turns waste into nutrient-dense Chardonnay marc that is used for chocolate bars
Have not yet gotten certified Zero Waste due to cost, instead investing in other areas

Water conservation - since 2008, reduced water intensity/bottle by 43%

Created the “Water Wise Winery Award” competition to conserve water (2016)
Recycled water in cooling towers
Installed rainwater capture systems, 1st at Carneros Winery - 60% of water usage from system

Spreading sustainability practices

The sustainability team helps spread the word
Annual Winegrowing Summit also shares best practices in production

Consumers showing interest and support for sustainable certifications

Luxury brands benefit from higher margins for investment

Mass market brands have the scale to innovate

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Now known as Bonterra Organic Estates, Bonterra has long been associated with organics. But, they have pushed well beyond that with sustainability processes and certifications such as Climate Neutral, True Zero Waste, and now focusing on Regenerative Organics. Joseph Brinkley, Director of Regenerative Farming, describes the history and communication processes that have led Bonterra to become a leader in the sustainability space in consumers' minds.

Detailed Show Notes:

Joseph's background - started in biodynamic farms, became a vineyard manager, joined Bonterra in 2013, a role now as a spokesperson for education and advocacy of farming and sustainable practices

Bonterra Overview

Founded in 1968 as Fetzer Vineyards in Mendocino County
Emphasis on farming practices & sustainability
The late '80s - moved to organics
1991 - 1st vintage of Bonterra Organic

Product lines:

Fetzer - $5-6/btl
Bonterra - $10-12/btl; ~500k cases
Bonterra Estate (regenerative organic, "Reg Org") - ~$20-25/btl
Single Vineyard (biodynamic) - ~40-60/blt
Estate & SVDs ~10k cases

An early adopter of solar, recycling, and tracking & reporting of GHG emissions

Changed company name to Bonterra Organic Estates from Fetzer Vineyards in 2022

Affirmation of commitment to Reg Org farming
Bonterra is already synonymous w/ organic
SF Chronicle and Forbes published articles about it

Certifications

B Corp, Reg Org, Climate Neutral, True Zero Waste
Backs up claims w/ verified certification, provides accountability w/ consumers
B Corp - looks at the approach to business, all-encompassing, incl land, people, and community (~600 companies at Champions event)

Farming certs:

Organics now federally regulated
Biodynamics the "gold standard"
Reg Org - "next level gold standard" - intersects w/ environment and social pillars (e.g., living wages) (now up to ~500k acres)
Younger generations are more aware and interested in certifications
Knowledge of certifications differs dramatically by geographic markets

Some certs are brand specific and intersect w/ brand price points:

True Zero Waste - <$15/btl tiers
Reg Org - believes ~$20-25/btl is the suitable range, but just launching
Biodynamics - $50-80/btl
Cost of certification in the thousands, some based on royalties ($/btl)

Bonterra does not charge a premium for organic certification

When a winery does a non-organic spray, they get de-certified for at least three years

Certification benefits include increased consumer loyalty and brand value, witnessed by Bonterra growing from 200k -> 500k in the last decade

Campaign: "Delicious Taste of Saving the Planet"

Did a 360-degree activation - commercials, social media, PR
They poked fun at themselves and the industry
Media consumption now focuses on short snippets and getting people to like and share them
Video ads were the most effective; they got people to share them
Returned measured by brand growth and some media metrics (e.g., # of shares)

New Campaign: "Cultivate the Future" - focused on Reg Org wines

Goal to educate consumers on the purpose of Reg Org farming
Help model sustainable comms for others and bring other producers in to collaborate
Will focus on social media, events (wine dinners, press), and media coverage

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As a lifelong hunter, David Duncan, CEO & Proprietor of Silver Oak in Napa Valley, has a keen appreciation for nature. This has driven David and Silver Oak to pursue many sustainability investments, including being the 1st existing winery and new build winery to be LEED Platinum certified and be at the forefront of energy efficiency for the last 20 years. From solar panels to using waste heat to get water up to sanitization temperatures, David dives into the details of Silver Oak’s sustainability efforts and how they think about them in terms of long-term return on investment.

Detailed Show Notes:

Silver Oak’s background - founded in 1972

Two wineries - Oakville (Napa) and Alexander Valley (Sonoma)
~100k cases/year
~700 acres of vineyards, ~75% estate owned fruit
Four wine brands total, and Oak Cooperage in Missouri

Sustainability efforts began in the vineyards in the late 90s, and early 2000s

Oakville winery

2006 dumpster fire burnt the winery down
Wanted to do the right thing in re-building (2008)
Installed solar panels and became 1st LEED Platinum winery (existing building)
They looked at LED lighting, but it was 3x as expensive at the time

Alexander Valley winery

Built in 2014, 1st LEED Platinum winery (new build)
A “living building,” which is mostly energy and water use
Uses ~1 gallon of water per gallon of wine vs. ~7 gallons of water as the industry average
Generates 105% of annual electric usage
All LED lighting, which is now more cost-effective
Ammonia chiller for glycol cooling to keep tanks cool - was old-school technology in the 30s and 40s; new technology is very efficient
Sanitation water uses solar power to heat to 105F, then waste heat from the cooling system adds 10-15F; the rest of the heating uses electricity
It has a 3-4 month peak season (harvest) where electric usage is higher and sometimes pulls from the electric grid; it has a small battery system but not a large one
Used recycled materials, which reduced painting needs

Working towards LEED certification for other wineries

Vineyards - moving towards electric tractors, but haven’t bought one yet

Cooperage - burns scrap wood to bend barrels instead of natural gas

ROI for sustainability

2.5-year payback for Alexander Valley solar system - highest of all investments
It looks at the “life cost of building” to calculate ROI, a long-term evaluation - the long-term view matches the long-term production cycle (5 years to produce Silver Oak)
No set target IRR cutoff, but ~5-year payback is the approximate cutoff
Looks at the impact on employees, which they call “The Whole Bunch” like a bunch of grapes, and assesses the safety of workers

Highest payback investments - solar panels and water use to treat barrels using recycled water

Sustainability also improves quality - e.g., minimizing water use in vineyards

Barriers to making sustainability investments are often due to 1 chance a year to make changes; Silver Oak does small trials on 1-2 acres to evaluate

Shares learnings w/ the industry - gives many tours of winery and vineyards, interviews, seminars and conferences, works w/ UC Davis

Also improving packaging

Moving towards a lighter glass
They used to send empty bottles to Canada to decorate and then ship them back to CA to fill. For the 1st time in 25 years, Silver Oak Napa Valley will have a paper label to avoid this environmental impact

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Sustainability is as much about people as it is about the land. That’s how Maryam Ahmed, founder of Maryam + Company and the Diversity in Wine Leadership Forum, connects Diversity, Equity, & Inclusion (“DEI”) to sustainability. Maryam shares how DEI creates access and relevance to new customers and markets for wine and how “doing the work” creates significant ROI for businesses.

Detailed Show Notes:

Maryam’s background - worked in Finger Lakes, distribution in NYC, moved to Walla Walla, then Napa, was on Somm TV show Sparklers

Maryam + Company - educational program & strategic initiatives for food & wine companies, further sustainability and diversity

Works w/ associations, portfolios, or specific wine businesses & non-profits

All clients have a demonstrated commitment to DEI
Help broaden their network and provides accountability consulting
Helps with conference and panel development, changing from panels on diversity to core topics with diversity integrated into it
Field Blends - wine travel program to regions that don’t always get the spotlight (e.g. - 2022 in Walla Walla, WA); for both professionals and consumers; scholarships for diverse candidates; brings regional orgs to support programs; provides regions with diverse travelers and new customers to region
Wine Writers Symposium - helped make the event virtual during Covid, broaden the audience from 30 to 300 people, and more diverse writers received jobs from it
Working w/ diverse influencers w/ trend towards micro-influencers (<10k IG followers) w/ ROI on sales and new market conversion
Clif Family - advised to let micro-influencers tell them what they wanted to do vs. the brand directing

DEI benefits

Creativity from multiple perspectives in the organization
Problem-solving with new ideas
Enables access and relevance to a broader customer base and new markets

Diversity in Wine Leadership Forum (“DIWLF”)

Created in 2020, cofounded w/ Elaine Chukan Brown
Getting the many initiatives for diversity in wine to collaborate instead of compete
~20 organizations participating
Orgs primarily focused on creating access, elevation, education, & inclusion; all ties back to sustainability
Do the Work Series - educated >150 professionals
Wine Unify - creates access and elevation through education (WSET scholarships)
Lift Collective - has an entrepreneurship program
280 Project & Industry Sessions - creates immersive education from a black and brown lens

Sustainability needs to be not just for the land, but also the people, making DEI critical

DEI “B” - belonging also important, working in supportive spaces

Doing the work is both personal and professional; common barriers for people:

People don’t want to be wrong / embarrassed -> advise them to “fail forward”
Don’t want to make other people feel uncomfortable -> discomfort is part of doing the work

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Sustainability is just good business practice, according to Drew Bledsoe, former New England Patriots Quarterback and now founder and proprietor of Bledsoe Wine Estates, comprising three wineries in Washington and Oregon. Josh McDaniels, CEO, and Drew discuss their biodiversity initiatives in detail, as well as their people and packaging efforts, as part of their sustainability ethos. From improving quality to increasing customer loyalty, they believe taking a long-term view on sustainability proves it is a good investment.

Detailed Show Notes:

Drew’s background - grew up in Walla Walla, WA; NFL quarterback for 14 years; started Doubleback winery and now has 3

Josh’s background - also grew up in Walla Walla, worked at Leonetti for 10+ years, and worked with Paul Hobbs in Argentina

Sustainability is critical for wine because of the long-term, generational nature of the wine business

Biodiversity initiatives

Built wildflower perimeter around vineyards - harbors beneficial insects, reducing mite infestations that happened when spring vetch growth dies
Working w/ The Bee Girl Organization in OR to study amount and species of bees for regeneration farming
Designed specific cover crop seed mix to attract more bees, improve Nitrogen in soil, have longer taproots to improve soil oxygen, and maintain water in the soil
Moving to dry farming through the cover crop, no-till, and drought-resistant rootstocks

Easier to make investments in estate vineyards vs. contracted ones

Benefits

The main goal is to increase wine quality
Builds emotional connection with consumers - more about customer loyalty/retention vs. new customer acquisition
Reduced spray expenses
Reduced water costs

Consumers expect luxury wine to be environmentally responsible

An early leader of people sustainability - focused on vineyard crew five years ago w/ higher pay, year-round employment, and full benefits, leading to benefits of not having to rehire and retrain crew

Other sustainability initiatives

Consolidating shipping across the country
Installing solar panels at the winery
Conscious of Doubleback bottle weight
Reducing packaging
Family Wine - currently bottled in 1L bottles that were meant for reuse, but issues around sanitization for reuse; now considered bag-in-a-box a la Tablas Creek
Looking at sources products, including glass, closer to home vs. glass was from China previously

Sustainability for the wine industry - with a long-term view, sustainability is a good investment and good business practice

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With a goal of 46% carbon reduction by 2030 and 6,000 companies to wrangle, Marie-Catherine Dufour, Technical Director of the Bordeaux Wine Council, has a big job to undertake. With an action plan that covers five key climate change strategies, Bordeaux can become carbon neutral by 2050. Some of those strategies include promoting bats to combat grape moths, reducing the weight of bottles, and capturing CO2 from fermentation to make baking soda.

Detailed Show Notes:

Marie-Catherine’s background - daughter of winegrowers in Bordeaux, studied agronomy

Mission as Technical Director of Bordeaux Wine Council - think of innovation needs for the sector to be more competitive

Defines sustainability as the linkage between environmental, social, and economic issues

Climate has a direct impact on the environment, but it also impacts the health and well-being of people

Bordeaux Climate Action

2007 - 1st carbon assessment
2019 - 3rd assessment - reduced GHG emissions by 39% from 2007
Developed Carbon Strategy for Bordeaux w/ science-based targets
The goal of 46% GHG reduction by 2030

Five key strategies

Glass and packaging (28% of GHG emissions) - reduce bottle weight by 10%
Winemaking practices (22% of GHG emissions) - do less in the vineyard to minimize oil and pesticide usage, balancing environmental goals and yield
Freight - fewer planes, more boats (30% of emissions from planes from only 4% of volume); fewer trucks, more trains (the primary port is now Le Havre in the north, and would like to ship from Bordeaux in the future)
Energy efficiency - underground cellars, natural light, gravity flow
Carbon sequestration - when they can’t reduce any more; increase area w/ covered grass (+32% of the area), plant trees and hedges (150 km hedges planted / year); can lead to carbon neutrality by 2050

Action plan for each strategy developed

A collective regional strategy helps when working with suppliers to have more influence

ROI is difficult to define

European impact of climate change is 1% of GDP w/ 2 heat waves in 2022, production reduced by 20% of normal
Cost of climate change in 2022 estimated at ~$24k/ha (~$10k/acre)
E.g., electric tractors are 30% more expensive but use less fuel; one solution is to amortize the cost over a more extended period

High-end wineries can do more

Reducing bottle weights - the idea of luxury will change and consumers will no longer accept heavy bottles as luxury due to climate impact
E.g., Chateau Montrose produces baking soda from CO2 emitted during fermentation, a type of sequestration; need to develop uses (e.g., sales to food companies) for it
Chateau Brown uses cardboard w/ nice printing over wood now; NY merchants prefer it
Chateau Lagrange has solar panels on the cellar that cannot be seen by visitors and produces 50% of electric needs

Driving action

Requires communication with members (6,000 companies)
Hosts an annual event for environmental issues
Do webinars and offers collective tools to promote action
Has an annual budget of €2M (€1M for scientific studies - e.g., for bats eating grape moths and reducing larvae by 40%; €1M for collective action)

Recommendation for wineries - start w/ carbon assessment, as every company is different, then develop a winery-specific plan and leverage tools available on the Bordeaux Wine Council website

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Known for its world-class art collection and Pinot Noirs, Donum Estate is also serious about sustainability, investing heavily in integrated pest management and biodiversity. Dan Fishman, the winemaker, discusses the benefits and tradeoffs of moving to organic and regenerative farming with an IPM framework. From sheep, ducks, and chickens to mealybug destroyers, it’s creating a diverse ecosystem that is improving the soil, vines, and wines for Donum.

Detailed Show Notes:

Dan’s background - Donum winemaker since 2012, took over farming in 2019

Donum

Founded in 2001 in Carneros to create the ultimate Pinot Noir
Added Russian River Valley and Sonoma Coast vineyards
CCOF (organic) and pursuing ROC regenerative certification

Integrated pest management (“IPM”) is a critical 1st step for sustainability; it changes philosophy from exploiting resources to maximize cash crops (conventional) to looking at the system holistically and thinking about the entire ecosystem (IPM)

Not about eliminating pests but managing them and creating resilience in the ecosystem

Examples of IPM

Sheep for weeding in winter - less tractor passes & fuel use, brings compost back to the vineyard, uses contract grazer w/ 500 sheep/herd, need sheep out before bud break, or they will eat green shoots
Compost teas (biologically active sprays) - when used on the canopy, introduce microbes that compete w/ others like mildew
Chickens & ducks eat ground insects

Committed to organics in 2019

Stopped using herbicides, which kill weeds but also other fungi in soil; stopping created living soils, insect life returned right away
Without synthetic nitrogen, we need to get the nitrogen cycle back (e.g., sheep compost helps)

Benefits of IPM

Reduced vigor reduced the need to crop thin and hedge, which was done before to get to target yields, therefore no reduction in overall crop yields
Improved grape chemistry - 7-8 years ago harvested at 25+ Brix to get phenolic ripeness with 3.7-3.8 pH and 4-5 g/L TA; 2022 - 23-23.5 Brix, 3.5 pH, 5.6-6+ g/L TA -> less work needed in winery
Can ferment with native yeasts (not killed by sprays)
Increased vineyard lifespan - vines can live 50-60 years vs. 25-30 typically in Sonoma for Pinot Noir
Reduced cost of synthetic fertilizers

Costs of IPM

Some upfront investment, e.g., Clemens weed knife for under-vine weed management instead of spraying Roundup
More monitoring of vineyard, e.g., people monitoring for mealy bugs, which are then treated with an organic essential oil
Estimates ~5-7% more expensive vs. conventional farming

The highest impact process was getting rid of herbicides

Other elements used

Root Applied Sciences - monitoring stations that check for mildew spores reduce organic sprays by 20%, kill less yeast in the vineyard
VineView aerial mapping to identify potential problems
Water probes to monitor vine stress to determine irrigation needs

Biodiversity

Cover crops, every 6th row is a native wildflower encouraging native insects
Introduce predators - e.g., wasps & mealybug destroyers to reduce mealy bugs
Encourage raptors with owl boxes and raptor perches to help control moles & gophers

Next for IPM and biodiversity at Donum - more chickens & ducks, may own a small flock of sheep, and set up a truffle grove

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Building an entire ecosystem in the desert requires water at its core. With a 3,000-ha property that includes 2,000ha of vineyards, a winery, and a town to support it, Raimat, part of the Cordorniu Group, has been at the forefront of sustainability, particularly with water efficiency. Joan Esteve, General Manager, explains how >€5M of investment has substantially reduced water usage and made the property more sustainable, which in his mind, is leaving it a better place for future generations.

Detailed Show Notes:

Raimat overview

Purchased in 1914, it was a desert 150km west of Barcelona
Continental climate, no Mediterranean influence
Close to the Pyrenees, water from snow melt
~3,000 ha (~7,400 acres) property
~2,000 acres of vineyards, ~40% (Pinot Noir, Chardonnay) goes to Cordorniu, rest for Raimat’s still wines (~12M bottles/year)
Had to build a town to support farming
Winery and town designed by a disciple of Gaudi
100% organic, many sustainability certifications
Tons of biodiversity - e.g., releasing Turons (i.e., wild ferrets) to control the rabbit population

Sustainability definition - “leaving a better world than how we found it”

Founder of Wineries for Climate Protection in Spain - requires 5% average annual water and energy savings

Water efficiency projects:

Built ~€4M water pipe to replace the channel that supplies Raimat water

1m diameter with natural pressure
Originally a > 50-year payback project
Saves 15% water (no evaporation, losses), ~2,700 MWh/year of energy / equivalent to ~1,400 tons CO2/year

Irrigation optimization

Developed by Cordorniu Research Institute
Dynamically applies water based on differences in soil, grape variety, desired wine style, and vine age
Saves ~10% of water
Spun off company Agropixel to consult other wineries on precision viticulture

Partial Root Drying

It uses two irrigation lines and rotates irrigation every 15-20 days
It makes the vine believe it’s under water stress when it’s not
~40% water savings, slightly lower yields, better quality
Conducting on ~300ha
~20-25% more expensive (mostly additional irrigation line)

Total vineyard water savings of ~30%

Cellar water optimization

Measured water consumption in different parts of the winery
Fixed leaks
Use tools to reduce usage (e.g., hot water vs. cold for cleaning, nozzles for hoses, UV light to disinfect tanks)

Total water efficiency investments ~€5.1M (~€4M pipe, ~€1M vineyards, ~€100k cellar)

Future efficiency - believes Raimat may need to use more water to offset the impacts of global warming

Water from the Pyrenees is not at risk as the region primarily produces corn and alfalfa, which use significantly more water than grapes (~800mm water/year vs. ~150mm for grapes)

ROI challenging for sustainability investments

Owners (now majority owned by The Carlyle Group) usually require < 3-Year payback on investments
Water pipe investment made by the family as a legacy for future generations
Quality was the main rationale behind water efficiency investments

Advice for the industry

It’s good business to be efficient
Agriculture is slow, needs longer payback hurdles, and can use quality improvements to justify the investment
The quality impact is significant; small amounts of compounds can impact the entire production

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Focused on the 20% of the wine market doing things differently, Byron Hoffman and Tyson Caly, co-CEOs of Offset, are focused on enabling “Brand Differentiated Commerce.” At the intersection of design and technology for wine, Offset has significant experience operating allocated offerings of wine. These unique event-based sales methods, which limit how much customers can buy, create new challenges and best practices, unlike other sales channels.

Detailed Show Notes:

Byron & Tyson met while collaborating on Last Bottle, combining e-commerce and design

Offset - the intersection of design and technology for wine

Focused on the 20% of the industry doing things differently
Most clients in Napa & Sonoma, major ones include Kosta Browne, Aubert, Larkmead, Raen, Bedrock, DuMOL

DTC business models - open cart / online store, clubs, subscriptions, allocations

Allocated offerings (“allocations”) definition - the event-based, controlled release of wine

Geared around exclusivity
Offering types - first come, first serve; guaranteed; order request
Allocation types - individual, group-based, wish only
Use wish requests to prevent underselling

Differences in doing allocations vs. other models

A significant effort to decide who gets what, limiting what people can buy
Timing of sales important - need to consider things like shipping windows
Checkout experience language is important

Best practices

“Brand Differentiated Commerce” - how the brand is integrated w/ commerce can be different for every winery
Simplify and align customer experience w/ the brand
Full allocation button - can simplify the purchase
The design flow of customer experience (e.g., initial email, graphics at the beginning of offering) is important
Invest in website design - many wineries think a lot about packaging and forget about their website or don’t want to appear to be selling wine, but still need a clear call to action
Too much automation is not always better

Examples of the intersection of design and commerce

Kosta Browne re-designed how to explain wish requests on their website, reducing phone calls and emails coming in
Text messaging & magic links (auto-login) enable 20 seconds to purchase, ~98% of texts get read w/in 3 minutes, partners w/ Slick Text

Costs of allocated models

Similar to e-commerce costs, Offset pricing is a transaction based w/ no monthly fee
Can have cost efficiencies if wines sell out (e.g., team labor used for other things when not selling, shipping process condensed)

Hybrid approaches

E.g., Larkmead has a tasting room, club, & allocations
E.g., Kermit Lynch has clubs, open cart, and behind-the-scenes allocations
Benefit - providing choices for people w/ different sales models, e.g., clubs for people who want convenience, allocations for VIPs to enable access to special wines
Cons - a lot more setup
People want to customize wine club shipments, which is similar technology to allocations and has now been enabled

Allocated offering research w/ professors from Kellogg & Peter - creating the data to get more insight and reduce guesswork for the industry

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With a California-like atmosphere, Texas wine country enjoys a strong local following. Eva Horton, the owner of Flat Creek Estate, shares how they are creating more than a Texas winery but a destination. With multiple venues, including a full-service restaurant and a disc golf course, Flat Creek is getting visitors to come back and enjoy the estate and wines.

Detailed Show Notes:

The goal is to be a destination, a real estate development play, not just a Texas winery

Texas wine country - west of Austin

TX wine trail - 290 corridor, flatter, mostly European & Spanish varietals
Expanded to Hill Country, NW of Austin
3 hrs from Dallas & Houston, 1 hr from San Antonio, 45 min from Austin
3 state in US for # of wineries

Visitors to TX wine country

The majority from Texas come for a weekend
As Austin becomes more of a definition, it gets more visitors
Looks California like

Flat Creek overview

In Hill Country, elevated, grows mostly Italian varietals
80 acres, ~26 planted, ~18 producing currently
Produced ~4,500-6,000 cases, capacity for ~10,000
Three venues on the property - tasting room, restaurant, pavilion
The consulting winemaker from CA - Jean Holfinger

Wine pricing - ~$30 whites, ~$40-50 reds, premium to other TX wineries

Estate destinations

Tasting room - outdoor areas, fire pits, barrel tastings
Ellera - full-service restaurant, only Flat Creek wines and alcohol
Pavilion - live music, different food
18-hole disc golf course, PGA qualified
Walking trails - like a winery in a park

Average spend

$25 for a tasting of 5 wines
Can range from ~$50-60 to hundreds for higher-end dinners at Ellera

of visitors - typical weekend - ~400-500/day, special events ~1,000

Sales channels

95% sold on site
5% online
Not in distribution yet, but a goal for 2023

Hospitality sales & wine clubs

~75% of visitors buy wine
Loyalty club - get benefits when you buy 12 bottles each year
“Being part of a destination/club”
Developing unique members-only benefits to drive membership - e.g., food & wine pairings, creating a VIP room (like a cigar lounge) for higher tier members
~40-50% of visitors join the loyalty club

Capturing non-customer emails - using cards to capture emails, ~50% uptake

~20-30% of customers repeat purchases, using personalized communications to target customers

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In less than three years, Jen & Zach Pelka, the sister and brother co-founders of Une Femme, have taken what was supposed to be an in-house wine brand for their Champagne Bars The Riddler to the fastest-growing sparkling wine in the US. Leveraging data from The Riddler sales with a mission of promoting women and enabling the shattering of glass ceilings, Jen & Zach have taken a CPG approach to rocket Une Femme to become a national player.

Detailed Show Notes:

Une Femme launch

Initially designed as an in-house brand for The Riddler
Data from The Riddler, from 2 bars, 150-200 wines sold by the glass, 70% women, difficult to find affordable, approachable sparkling rosés by the glass led to Une Femme design
Launched Feb 2020 - a bad time for on-premise, Covid closures forced more national distribution

Wine portfolio

The Betty - sparkling white, named after Betty White, no dosage, 80% PN / 20% CH
The Callie - sparkling rosé from California, 1st wine to take off
$32 retail

Product

Work directly w/ wineries and winemakers, capital-light model
Mostly Central Coast, CA
Made in 3 locations w/ a Type 2 winery license
Made w/ Charmat method (tank) - faster, less expensive, more scalable, spends 1-3 months in tank

Motto - “World-class women-made wines that give back to female-centered charities”

Each wine partnered w/ charities, which gets a lot of press

The Callie - Breast Cancer Research Fund
The Betty - Dress for Success
Limited Edition Wines (Piquettes) - Tree Sisters
Batonnage Forum (for more detail, see XChateau Ep 40)
Assesses donations every quarter for contribution amount; can’t tie a specific $ amount to a bottle due to alcohol compliance

Fastest growing sparkling wine brand in the US

2020 - 1,500 cases
2021 - 5,400 cases
2022E - ~100,000 cases
2023E - >200,000 cases
Aspiration - 400-500k case brand to become a “call brand” for sparkling wine, where customers ask for it by name
Diversity at scale is mostly restricted by access to capital (Une Femme just able to raise $10M Series A)

Packaging

Multiple formats - 750ml, 187ml, 250ml cans
Small formats launched to take advantage of events, charities where small bottles (w/ straws) / cans will be photographed/seen vs. drinking from a glass
250ml cans driven by Delta - lighter, more scalable, sustainable

Price - will be ~$24.99 from major retail partners as the product scales

Targeting premiumization categories ($20-40 range) and growing the sparkling category

Promotion

Brand partners - Marriott (by the glass in high-end hotels - Ritz Carlton, St Regis, JW Marriott), Delta
Most successful promotion - Hall of Femme awards program celebrated 365 women who have shattered a glass ceiling. Sent them a crate of wine with stunt glass and a hammer to shatter it. Based on the brand name “Une Femme,” meaning it only takes 1 woman to shatter a glass ceiling
Has done social media, paid advertising, email marketing, & just started text marketing
Does a lot of events and donations to lots of charities
Word of mouth from friends in the industry (e.g., wine shop owners, sommeliers)
Branded credit card - to be part of customers' lives, introducing similar, women-focused, women-owned brands (e.g., Milk Bar), capitalizing on the movement of women supporting women, esp with their wallets
Brand ambassador program - run through a 3rd party as a way to have affiliate marketing for influencers
Highest ROI marketing - things that lead to partnerships w/ large national players, e.g., trade shows

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In this episode, Robert Vernick and Peter Yeung interview Tom Lutz, Founder & Creator of Repour Wine Savor, one of the leading new inventions in wine preservation technology. We discuss the technology, how people have learned about it, the differences between Coravin and Repour, and what the future holds.

Other topics covered in this episode include:

Tom is a chemist by trade (he worked in biodiesel and aquarium products)

Repour was invented when he had a newborn son and ended up pouring half bottles of wine down the drain

Technology:

It uses food-grade oxygen absorbers
Binds the oxygen, of which the atmosphere has 21%, does not replace it
It requires air to exchange and remove the oxygen, so the bottle needs to be stored vertically

The capacity of the stopper

Built for 5 pours of one bottle, glass by glass - this would expose the wine to 1,500 ml of air
The max amount a stopper has to handle is 2,000 ml of air

Uses recyclable materials. However, many municipal grids have 3”x3” grids that filter out small objects; for large customers, they do take back repours to recycle

Pricing
Consumer: 4-pack ($8.99 / $2.25 each), 10-pack ($17.99 / $1.80 each), 72-pack ($120 / $1.67 each)
There are often promotions via the email list
A future target price point is $1/stopper or lower
Trade: 4x72-pack (288 stoppers) - starts at $0.83 / stopper

Customers

Started with on-premise (restaurants)
With COVID - moved more consumers
Wineries - have been using them for virtual tastings and wine club gifts, also several doing custom branding

Coravin vs. Repour - both work; Coravin is better for tasting and cellaring wine; Repour is for enjoying wine like you usually would and saving it

Marketing

Mostly word of mouth
After 1 year of testing the science, started with a local somm group that did a blind tasting and Repour worked great
TEXSOM - gave out samples and many conversations have come back to that event

Duration of effectiveness - weeks or months; Repour has tested out to 6-7 months

The future - potentially replaceable inserts, sparkling wine, and the possibly showing how much oxygen absorbing capacity is left

If you loved this episode, we would love for you to subscribe, rate, and review it on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, cheers!

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Being the lead guitarist of the band, The Strokes, and with a celebrity roster of investors including Joaquin Phoenix, Owen Wilson, and Nick Hoult, one might believe that Albert Hammond Jr.’s new wine seltzer, Jetway, should have an easy path to take off. However, creating a product from ideation to quality in a can, starting a new business and raising money, and getting that wine seltzer into stores, restaurants, and people’s hands was more like launching a new band for Albert. It takes a lot of effort, and there are a lot of unknowns as to what might help it stick. Albert tells the story of the first year of Jetway and how celebrity has helped but is far from enough to make the product successful.

Detailed Show Notes

Albert’s background

Lead guitarist of The Strokes
Dad was into French Bordeaux, and Albert really liked the aromas of wine

Jetway’s founding - the idea came from drinking Aperol Spritzes in Italy and thinking it should be canned and modernized

Jetway product

Ultra-premium wine seltzer, positioned as a new category w/in a category between wine and seltzer
Wine base with yerba mate and yuzu/ginger/lemon peel (white) or white peach/orange peel (rosé)
Dry with no added sugar
Can’s art is trying to be nostalgic and new

Price point

DTC - $131 / 24 cans (~$5.45/can, incl shipping)
In-store - $14.99 / 4 pack

Product launch

Similar to launching a new band
In 200+ stores
Available at Disneyland on draft and the San Diego Zoo, both did well
The goal was to sell 10,000 cases in the first year
Most people buying are not friends and family

Raising money

He pitched to friends for feedback, and some wanted to invest
Investors include Joaquin Phoenix and Rooney Mara, Nick Hoult, and Owen Wilson

Leveraging celebrity

It helps to get in the door for restaurants and stores, but a good product is required to bring people back
Social media is a “double-edged sword” - it only hits fans of the band, which is not the entire market for the product
He had Jetway on the road when The Strokes opened for the Red Hot Chili Peppers and a broad audience enjoyed it
Most of the investors don’t have social media, but mostly have helped provide feedback on product design

Celebrity alcohol brands are growing, partially to diversify business interests and following the success of George Clooney’s tequila brand

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Catching the wine bug from the nudge of a physical trainer, Elton Potts, Founder & Managing Partner of Vine Vault, has built a business focused on enhancing the enjoyment of wine and wine collecting. From full-service wine storage to refrigerated shipping to hosting wine events, Vine Vault has grown rapidly and serves six markets in the US.

Detailed Show Notes:

Elton’s background

A 27-year career in finance & ops ran a global storage and logistics business
A physical trainer said beer would undo the impacts of training and to substitute it with red wine
Frustrated with storage and delivery options that existed, he started Vine Vault

Vine Vault

1st two facilities launched in Q4 of 2015
70% annual revenue growth, doubled in 2021
Six markets (Napa, LA, Austin, Atlanta, Miami, Philadelphia), >50 team members (incl ~12 sommeliers)
75% of wine stored in a full-service storage program

Mission: to enhance the enjoyment of wine and wine collecting (beyond storage)

Additional services

Fully refrigerated, door-to-door delivery services
Fulfillment service for high-end wineries, incl pick & pack, hand labeling, wax dipping
Moving cellars
Wine events
Sommelier services

Storage basics

Climate control with low temp fluctuation
Humidity - too dry dries corks; too humid creates mold
Security - feel safe and have ease of access
Access wine - want availability, but doesn’t risk security
Clean facility - no chemical smells that can damage wine or rodents that might eat labels and packaging
Location access - ease of drop off / pick up (e.g., ramps)
No vibration
Lifestyle requirements - staff to receive shipments, inventory wines

Pricing varies by location

Self storage - ~$3-4/case/month
Concierge / full service - ~$4.5-8/case/month

Scale is not that important for only storage

Scale supports logistics and events
Plans to expand into more markets

Arranges pickup & delivery of wines bought from wineries for consumers

Schedules delivery, refrigerated, no styrofoam
Winery avoids breakage, returns, and damage
Winery knows customers get the best experience of the wine

Inflation and supply chain impacts - price not keeping up with cost increases

Added a fuel surcharge
The most significant issues are supply chain, e.g., a truck offline for 4 months waiting for a door latch

Developed boxes for storage & shipping

Cardboard lays bottles flat, sturdy for stacking, and bottles don’t touch each other
40-60% recycled material, no styrofoam
White color to show confidence in the process, won’t get dirty or damaged

Traveling road show for wineries - organize and plan events

Business breakdown - all segments growing

Wine delivery 40%, storage 30%, wine moving 20%, events 10%
The biggest opportunity is delivering wine

Trends

More women collecting wine
Post-baby boomers collecting wine
The storage business is still growing, and people are becoming aware of it

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Library Release - Originally released as episode 26 on Nov 11th, 2020

With a 25-year history, WineBid is the oldest and largest online wine auction site. The original re-commerce platform, Russ tells us about the auction process from the buyer and seller perspective and all the data they collect and display for the wines. This includes innovations such as a 360-degree bottle shot, price history charts, and new functionality like their customized shipping feature. He spills the beans on a few tips and tricks to get the best deals on WineBid!

Detailed Show Notes:

WineBid - 25 years old, based in Seattle with operations in Napa, the oldest and largest wine auction site

Weekly auctions - open at 7:15 pm PST on Sundays, close at 7 pm PST the next Sunday

All items open at the same time
Pro’s get 1st 5-10 minutes to view and place bids
What doesn’t sell rolls into the following week
Now introducing some wines mid-week, with most wines going in one week
Set good reserves upfront

For Sellers of wine

Consignors are mostly private individuals
Most sales are for $10,000-$1M+, ideally $100+ average bottle value
Sellers send their list and get an estimate
WineBid does the appraisal and after agreeing with the consignor, ships wine to the Napa warehouse
Wines are inspected, authenticated, and photographed
Once sold, sellers get a check or electronic wire transfer
As part of an estimate, for larger cellars, WineBid will help catalog and pre-inspect on-site

Reasons people sell wines

As in many businesses, the 3 D’s - divorce, debt, and death
People also have their tastes change and swap out what’s in their cellars
They move and want to downsize their cellar
Spouse/partners - may force sales before they can buy more

Consignment vs. cash buyout for wine sellers - generally make more money consigning and capture more upside, but takes more time and can get paid sooner, at a discount, with immediate cash buyout

Business model

Seller commissions - at most auction houses, 5-25%, the larger the consignment, the lower the premium
Buyer’s premiums - generally 15-25%, 17% at WineBid vs ~20-25% for live auctions

Buyer demographics - ~135-150,000 registered bidders

70% US, 20% Asia, 10% Europe
⅔ Male, ⅓ Female
Upper middle-income with professionals in high-tech, finance, lawyers, doctors, etc.
Demographics are getting younger, particularly in 2020 -> interested in a broader selection of wines with higher mobile usage
Most learn about WineBid via word of mouth, recently doing more social and digital advertising and trying to make the experience more personal

WineBid Innovations

360-degree hi-res bottle shots
One of the best for still photography in wine auctions
Shipping functionality - can see everything you have and pick and choose what and when to ship
Some of the most detailed condition notes on bottles
Wine price chart for the history of the bottle

Provenance premiums

Don’t see significant premiums on provenance
No significant premiums for original wood cases (“OWC”) - buyers often don’t want to pay extra to ship the wood case
Certificates of authenticity not seeing significant premiums
Label appearance is important to many buyers

The proliferation of wine critics and influencers has led to some influencers rivaling and outpacing traditional media

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The wine storage landscape has never been as dynamic as it is today. Primarily due to Vino Vault and its goal of “making wine collecting more enjoyable.” With six facilities today and the goal of getting to 40-50, Jeff Anthony, President & CEO, and Jeff Smith, Chief Wine Officer, describe how scale allows them to offer more products and services to customers. From a soon-to-be-launched marketplace to auction advisory, Vino Vault is taking wine storage to another level.

Detailed Show Notes:

Jeff Anthony (President & CEO) - wine enthusiast for 30 years, storage expert for 35 years (Iron Mountain)

Jeff Smith (Chief Wine Officer) - helped father catalog his wine collection and turned it into a business - Carte du Vin Wine Cellar Management and wine storage business that sold to Vino Vault

Vino Vault offerings

1st and foremost, a storage company
Consulting for in-home cellars
Logistics for wine moving
Soon to launch a marketplace for storage customers to buy and sell wine
Auction advisory (Jeff Smith’s role)

7 locations - 3 in LA, Dallas, Houston, NYC, Denver

Storage best practices - temp control, humidity control, security, racking

Wine Owners - proprietary software for full-service customers, can manage collection and schedule delivery

2 types of customers - private locker (~50%) and full service (~50%)

NYC is all full service, trying to get more people on full service

Supply chain and inflation have not impacted business as higher-end customers feel it less

Vino Vault differentiation - national reach, in 6 markets today, will be in 10 by early 2023

Scale benefits - can offer more products & services, can spread expertise and technology across a bigger business

M&A - goal is 40-50 locations, 80% North America, 20% Western Europe (UK), ~8-10 acquisitions / year

Storage market size - ~215-230 Facilities

NA (US + Canada) - ~135-140 independent storage facilities
W Europe - ~30-40
Rest of the World - ~50

Auction services - 20 years dealing with all auction houses

Handle all the logistics
Advisory services are free to customers with no obligation
Get paid a finder’s fee from auction houses

Marketplace

Focused on the ~80% of wine to sell that is up to ~$100-125/bottle (vs. ~20% that is rare and collectible and should go to auction)
The benefit is speed to market, and transactions can happen immediately vs. ~4 months for auctions
Commissions are dramatically lower than auctions

Data insights - anecdotally seeing a move away from high-end Napa Cabs and Sine Qua Non

Wine tastings and events - host some at some facilities, building event space in the flagship LA store (The Wine Hotel)

Storage is a sticky business vs. online wine retail which is transient

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What is the relevance of having 100s of gold medal wines and the competitions that hand them out? According to Doug Frost, MW, MS, it references back to the 19th century, when people were trying to describe what was happening in their wine regions. Doug describes the history, value, drawbacks, and key success factors of wine competitions. He delves into their changing influence in the era of the wine critic and the modern era of the sommelier. He contrasts this with the Wine Pinnacle Awards, now in its second incarnation in Singapore.

Detailed Show Notes:

Doug’s background

Master of Wine and Master Sommelier for more than 25 years
Restaurant background, has worked in retail, distribution, and now owns a winery (Echolands Winery)

Wine competition history

Started in the 19th century - attempts to describe what’s happening in a winegrowing region, e.g., 1855 Classification of Bordeaux
The 1950s-1960s - started to grow, especially in regions outside of Bordeaux and Burgundy, which had classifications to prove wines were high quality
E.g., 1976 - “Judgment of Paris” tasting where CA wines beat French wines
The 1980s-1990s - competitions grew to find out the best of the areas w/o classifications, mainly “new world” such as the US and Australia

Competition examples

Sonoma County Fair - focused on Sonoma
Decanter World Wine Awards - covers the world, dependent on wineries submitting wines, ranks the best of the wines submitted

Value of competitions - tells you about wines you haven’t heard about yet

Drawbacks of competitions

Wineries w/ proven track records often don’t submit - more downside than upside
They usually charge for submissions

Keys to a successful competition

The quality of judges is key
Know the purpose of the competition (e.g., examining a specific region, grape variety, etc.)
Control the style of wines w/in categories, and make sure a particular style does not dominate every flight - e.g., Jefferson Cup controls the # of wines from a region

Competitions vs. wine critics/magazines

Competitions - no expectation that top brands submit
Top magazines - top brands must show up

Competitions are still relevant in Australia; in the US, competitions gave way to individual critics, which may now be giving way to others (e.g., crowdsourced scores)

Still in the era of the sommelier

Somms talk to each other (vs. retailers)
Somms influence each other (Pinnacle tries to embody the same idea)
Somms actually sell wine (vs. critics)

Wine Pinnacle Awards

Co-created by Jeannie Cho Lee MW
International in scope - dozens of judges from all over the world, each region has equal weighting
Judges mostly MSs, MWs, and senior wine writers
Each judge was asked to nominate stand-out wines from a specific region and vintage that stood out in their tastings over the past few years (e.g., best Bordeaux from 2010)
Target audience - collectors and more experienced consumers
Trying to not bring up the same wineries every year by highlighting different vintages, including overlooked ones
Hosts an award ceremony each year where tickets are sold, does not charge for submissions

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“Wine is an emotional sale, not a rational one.” according to Katherine Cole, Communications Director of Vin Agency, making storytelling and the immersive nature of web design critical for DTC wine sales, according to Katherine and Jon Krauss, Creative Director of Vin Agency. They explain how website design can improve brand messaging and create more DTC sales by making websites discoverable, drawing the consumer in, and making it easy to purchase once the thirst is built.

Detailed Show Notes:

Jon’s background - founded Vin in 2009

Katherine’s background - “recovering wine journalist,” has written 5 books, was a wine journalist for the Oregonian Newspaper, hosts The Four Top podcast

Vin is a creative agency and brand consultancy for wineries

The core focus is custom website design
Winery focus gives Vin deep expertise in the space

Search Engine Optimization (“SEO”) - how people find a website

Has technical elements - e.g., meta descriptions, site maps - Vin uses WordPress that has plug-ins to make this easier
Has communication elements - using SEO keywords (e.g., Sonoma Coast Pinot Noir) and being strategic around where the terms appear (e.g., in headlines, the size of the words, where they appear on the page)
E.g., Hibou - re-launched their website Sept 2021, pageviews went up >400%, new site visitors up >200% (shows SEO working), and average session duration up >140% (showing the storytelling is working)

Wine is more of an emotional purchase, less rationale, so more immersive website experiences are powerful

E.g., Casino Mile Ranch - didn’t have solid website engagement and wasn’t getting their story across; after the website re-launch, customers have kept coming back to the site

E-commerce design is critical for wine websites

E.g., Seavey Vineyards - their e-commerce was awkward and difficult to navigate (they use WineDirect); Vin re-designed it using WordPress, and it now drills into products to see different formats (e.g., magnums, etc.) and vintages leading to +80% increase in large format sales
The ability to customize checkout flow depends on the e-comm vendor (Commerce 7 and Offset/Figure are Vin’s favorites for this, Offset particularly for allocated wineries)

New technologies, e.g., chat boxes and texting, can improve performance but depends on the type of winery

E.g., Silt sales rocketed up when they launched a new website in conjunction with text messaging which linked to the site

Visitation/hospitality best practices

Immersing visitors to the feeling of being at the winery
Having photography without people in it helps people imagine that they are in it

Website costs

It can range from $5-100k depending on the size of the winery and the scope of the website, and the normal range is ~$12-30k
Some sites can be built over time
Better to start with a wine-focused developer, people who try non-wine template sites often come to Vin because their e-commerce doesn’t work properly

Highest ROI areas

Eliminate dead ends on the site for the path to purchase
Create a call to action at the bottom of each page

Website trends for wineries

Some language cues being used with consumer psychology in mind, e.g., “discover” vs. “home page”
Scroll animation
Drone videos and videos in more creative ways
“Photography will never go out of style” some luxury wineries use immersive art photography

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From weddings to concerts to a golf course, Wente Vineyards has a whole portfolio of experiences to share the Wente brand with consumers. Aly Wente, VP of Marketing & Customer Experiences, shares how Wente thinks about managing the portfolio of experiences and how they embed wine and the Wente brand into everything they do. From becoming more of a data company to refactoring their tasting rooms and driving people to the wine club, driving deeper connections with their customers is core to the ROI of experiences at Wente.

Detailed Show Notes:

Wente Experiences overview

Championship golf course designed by Greg Norman
Tasting room with food & wine experiences
Concerts, including a tribute band series
Rent space for weddings and corporate events

Experiences are viewed as a connected portfolio

Everything should feel cohesive and true to the brand
Hospitality team overseas golf grill, tasting room, and booking events
Embody wine in every experience - concerts -> wine & music events; 5-star restaurant -> tasting lounge
Look at ROI across experiences to see which to invest more in with limited resources
Refactored tasting rooms, had two with different feels (one older, traditional, one more modern and food driven where the wine was more lost), into a single “tasting lounge” focused on wine with wine & food experiences

Recently upgraded tech to become more of a data company

Use CRM to take notes on customers
Track demographics and target some events to specific groups

Key metrics used for ROI

Customer surveys
Event ticket sales and difficulty in selling tickets
Social media engagement
Contextual ROI when at events
Wine sales at events - Wente makes money on wine, not ticket sales

Better understanding customer journeys and how they impact:

New vs. existing customers
Repeat visitation
Club membership
LTV of customers
The primary goal of the tasting room and events is to engage customers and create relationships vs. being the most significant profit driver for the brand

The team needs to be resourced to dig into the data and track it

Weddings

Get a rental fee for property (high margin)
Require min # of cases of wine purchased, and most people buy more
Pre-2020 - did >60 weddings/year, full-service incl wedding planning and catering - was not the most profitable business
Today - leaner experience - rent out the property with resources for planning

Primary priority - Flow into the wine club

The “pinnacle” of ROI for experiences
Club members often spend more than club shipments
Food & wine experiences convert the highest to the club - the more attention people get, the more likely they will join the club
~6-8% of visitors become club members
Provide incentives for staff for club signups (~$30-50/signup + club prizes for top performers)
Now have a “club booth” at experiences with customer incentives (e.g., 30% off 1st shipment if they sign up at the event)

Secondary priority - Getting everyone’s emails that attend events

Believes digital experiences will always be around now

During the pandemic, Wente was 1st to have Amazon Alexa and Google Home virtual wine tastings, buying wine at the grocery store

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After spending two decades promoting the wines of Washington State, Allen Shoup founded Longshadows, a collective of partnerships leveraging internationally renowned winemaking talent to express the best of the Columbia Valley. Director of Winemaking, Gilles Nicault, describes how the partnerships work from both a business and winemaking perspective; what he’s learned from making wines with the likes of Michel Rolland to Randy Dunn; and how Washington State’s wine profile has been elevated from this concept.

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Detailed Show Notes:

Allen Shoup founded Longshadows

He was CEO of Ste Michelle Wine Estates (“SMWE”) for 20 years
His mentor was Robert Mondavi, who founded Opus One, a collaboration between the old and new world
At SMWE, Allen started collaborations with Eroica (Dr. Loosen) and Col Solari (Antinori)
Wanted to build partnerships for Longshadows - showcase the Columbia Valley, which is east of the Cascade Mountains and has very dry terroir (~6 inches of rain/year), enabling great diversity of grapes to be grown (Bordeaux, Rhone, Italian, Spanish varieties)
The name “Long Shadows” refers to renowned winemakers casting long shadows over the Columbia Valley

Partnerships

Poet’s Leap, a Riesling w/ Armin Diel (Schollsgut Diel in Nahe, Germany)
Saggi, a Super Tuscan (Sangiovese, Cabernet Sauvignon, Syrah blend) w/ Ambrogio & Giovanni Folonari (Tuscany)
Pedestal, a Merlot w/ Michel Rolland (Pomerol)
Pirouette, a Bordeaux style blend w/ Agustin Huneeus, Sr and Phillipe Melka (Napa)
Feather, a Cabernet Sauvignon w/ Randy Dunn (Napa)
Sequel, a Syrah w/ John Duval (Barossa Valley, Australia)
Gilles crafts his own Cab / Syrah blend with 30 months in French oak

All partnerships were established when Longshadows was founded in 2003 except Folonari, which came in 2004

All are true partnerships - each partner owns 25% of their labels, which are separate companies. They are not consultants and are not paid any other fees

Longshadows does the sales & marketing for the wines

Working relationships w/ partners vary

John Duval can be there during harvest (Southern Hemisphere)
Partners did not give any recipes for wines but pitched in and developed styles together
Fruit sourced from across Columbia Valley and its 15 sub-AVAs through acreage contracts
Source both old vines and can work with growers to plant specific clones (e.g., German clones for Poet’s Leap Riesling vineyards)
Volume of wines set by Allen Shoup and Dane Narbaitz (current President and Allen’s son-in-law), choose quality over quantity
Wines that don’t make the main wines go into 2nd label Nine Hats

Each winemaker is so different. Gilles learned there are many ways to make wines

E.g., Randy Dunn wants the jacks of the fruit in the wine, whereas Michel Rolland wants all of them out
Winemakers are interested in what each other does but do not work together
Each winemaker has their own allocation of vineyards and blocks for their wines

Selling Longshadows

The wine club “Key Club” is a big part of sales
2 tasting rooms - at the winery (Walla Walla) and in Woodinville (near Seattle)
Some distribution in the US and a few international markets

Longshadows was honored to be selected 4x to be served at the White House

The future - partners are getting older, and many are on the verge of retirement. Gilles to carry the flame forward with lessons he’s learned from them

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Family-owned businesses are notoriously hard to keep family-owned over multiple generations. Wente Vineyards in Livermore Valley, California, has managed to keep it going for 5 generations. Partially through having fewer children, but also through structures put in place to keep the family connected and business family-owned, Aly Wente, VP of Marketing & Customer Experience, describes how they’ve focused on connection and fun to keep the family business together for generations to come.

Detailed Show Notes:

Wente Vineyards was founded in 1833 by Aly’s Great Great Grandfather, CH Wente

Grandfather worked in Napa for Charles Krug
Livermore was similar to Napa in grape growing back then
Wente is ~800k cases in total
Brands include Wente Vineyards (~600-700k cases), Murrieta’s Well, Hayes Ranch, Angels Ink, and Ravel & Stitch
Has small lot wines only available in tasting rooms

Each generation has left its legacy

2nd generation - brought Chardonnay to California (1908, 1912) with the Wente Clone
3rd generation - bought a property in Arroyo Seco and pioneered it as a region for grape growing
4th generation - helped write the AVAs for Arroyo Seco, San Francisco Bay, and Livermore Valley; spearheaded experiences business, including concerts and golf course
5th generation - still starting out but focused on sustainability, company culture, and innovation

Family ownership has been intact through 5 generations

Partially due to the limited number of children
CH had 7 children, including 3 sons, only 2 interested in winery
Of 2 sons - Ernst & Herman (Gen 2), only 1 had children (1 - Carl)
Carl (Gen 3) had 3 kids (Gen 4)
Gen 4 has 6 kids (Gen 5)
Gen 6 will have many more people in the family

Benefits of being family owned

Not subject to shareholders, the family has complete control
Multi-generational relationships w/ other family-owned businesses can be helpful (e.g., Southern Glazers is family owned)
Large corporations may not have built the golf course or fine dining restaurant

Structures to pass on ownership to future generations

Annual “family council”
Prepares next generations for ownership and if they want to work in the company
Meet once a year
Topics include business topics to align on, educational topics (e.g., tax law), and even individual’s visions for the business
As more family works together, prioritizing more fun and bonding
Attendance starts as children, though not babies
Have policies in place for members who want to leave the company or sell shares, but no one has used them to date
The goal is to remain family owned

Wente Vision changing

Old - to be one of the most respected family wineries in the world
Changing to be more about employees

Family vs. external management

The current CEO is 2nd CEO to be non-family
External people can help balance family and business interests and inter-generational interests
Wente doesn’t create roles for family members
If a family member wants a role, they still interview others for it and choose the best candidate, though the family member has a slight advantage

3 keys to maintaining and evolving a family-owned business

1) transparency - bringing family members in at a young age
2) respect - need to treat each other with respect
3) fun - need to have fun while working in wine and with family

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As designer and Executive Director of sustainability non-profit Napa Green, Anna Brittain is passionate about taking action on the 7 pillars of sustainability. Spreading the word about how pursuing sustainability can save money is critical. Anna describes how she defines the 7 pillars of sustainability, what makes Napa Green unique, gives concrete examples of how wineries save money with sustainability, and the launch of the symposium Napa Thrives to accelerate the pace of action.

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Detailed Show Notes:

Definition of sustainability for agriculture has 6 pillars, now expanding to 7

1. Water efficiency
1. Energy efficiency
1. Waste prevention and green purchasing
1. Integrated pest management and biodiversity
1. Social equity, diversity, and inclusion
1. Climate action and regenerative agriculture
1. Communications and engagement

Napa Green

1 of 4 programs nationwide that have sustainability certification for vineyards and wineries
Addresses all parts of sustainability vs. 1 issue (most programs are only environmental; e.g., organic only for vineyards and not using synthetic pesticides)
~15 programs globally that address sustainability holistically
Boots on the ground for direct support achieve more action
90 wineries, 15k acres in the program
Policy vs. boots on the ground give very different perspectives
Certification requires >120 standards for wineries and >100 for vineyards

Economics of sustainability

Myth: sustainability will cost a lot of money -> it can actually help save money
Money-saving examples:
Variable frequency drives for energy efficiency, 1-3 year payback
Turn down the water heater temp when you don’t need it super hot - save thousands on water and energy bills
Chateau Montelena - used Tooley Technologies for real-time data on water needs on an underperforming vineyard, saved $0.5-1M in improving the vineyard w/in a few years; phased out wooden boxes for wine to branded cardboard, reducing shipments from 5 to 2 (less space and weight), cut materials cost 50%, cut emissions, reduced wine breakage
~50% of members have solar, but people don’t notice when inverters go down and don’t fix it until they see a high electric bill, it could save tens of thousands through monitoring and maintenance
Cakebread - focused on reducing waste, bought Big Belly solar trash compactors reducing trash pickups, saved ~$30k in first 3 years
Areas of opportunity: vineyards - develop a custom carbon farm plan (e.g., cover crop, compost, biodiversity, etc.), lays out how much carbon can be stored; compost is a big bang for the buck for carbon and water storage and nutrients; winery - water usage, including energy to transport, heat, and treat water, new regulations around wastewater also need consideration
~30-50% of emissions from packaging and distribution

Best practice: think systematically, from vineyards to winery to getting wine to consumers; members often think of one-off projects vs. looking at the entire landscape

Marketing sustainability

Hosts ambassador training to get people talking about it
Potentially $1-3/bottle premium for organic/sustainable wines
Wineries are often willing to pay a premium to buy sustainably grown grapes

Napa Thrives - symposium w/ Martin Reyes MW

Goal is to accelerate the pace of sustainability and climate action

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Revolutionized by eliminating taxes on wine in 2008, Hong Kong has become a significant wine investment and trading hub for China and Asia in general. Polly Aylwin-Foster and Ian Ford of Nimbility Asia go deep into all aspects of the Hong Kong ("HK") wine market. From the HK wine consumer, the retail landscape, cross border transactions with China, the large "hand carry" market, and the British influence on the wine culture, they provide lots of essential data and detail for HK wine.

Detailed Show Notes:

2008 - all wine duties removed for anything <30% abv, making HK the preferred place to store and trade wine

Wine importers - 310 (2008) - 790 (2021)
Speciality wine shops - 140 (2008) - 470 (2021)

HK wine consumers - 7M people

Expats - 500k - consumed wine at 5-star hotels, int’l restaurants
Indigenous people - wine consumption not part of daily culture
"Tycoons" - wealthy people, drive fine wine consumption, high value of wine purchased
Consumption mostly at restaurants and bars, big eating out culture
Pre-pandemic - 5-star hotels, int’l on trade, & large restaurant groups sold most of the wine
Culture of private kitchens, wine clubs, private room dining - for top wines

HK's more mature wine market

Bordeaux historically, massive Burgundy growth, some iconic American wines
The influence of British wine culture over many decades created HK wine culture (e.g., trading houses, merchants)
Average fine wine consumer more advanced in HK than China (started in 60s vs 90s in China)

HK retail landscape

Supermarkets drive bulk of sales (2 main players - Welcome, Park n Shop; Watsons wine owned by a supermarket) - sell big brands, sub-HK$ 100 (~$7-9/bottle)
Independent wine shops - importers' retail / private client arms, a few independents, British wine merchants, Enoteca (Japan) -fine wine
Online very small, <7%
Auctions influential - attract attention for brands, provides halo effect for in mainland China, mainland buyers participate
Pandemic - local airline encouraged uses miles on products, including wine, 1 importer sold $1M in wine via airline

HK wine market

4.3M 9L cases imported (2021), +10% from 2019, expected to grow 5-6%/year over the next few years
HKTDC figures - 26% officially re-exported (to China, Asia), 74% conveyed out by individuals, in storage, and local consumption

The "hand carry" market

People are allowed to take 2 bottles/person into China w/o paying taxes (~50%)
At HK/Shenzen border - many people would take 2 bottles, drop them off on the other side and go back and take 2 more bottles repeatedly
Impossible to know the scale, but a significant amount of wine goes across the border this way
Wines then put into commercial distribution in China

HK as a trading hub - initial idea of shipping to HK and re-exporting flawed

Add’l logistics costs make it more expensive
Taxes are paid on landed costs, including the add'l shipping costs
Need diff back labels for SE Asia and China (HK doesn't have requirements)

Cross border e-comm into China (TMall, JD.com)

Chinese consumers buy offshore at favorable tax rates
Limitations per year and per transactions
Opens up the availability of products to consumers

HK has a more Western media landscape

Douyin illegal (Chinese TikTok)
Does not have KOL (key opinion leader) industry like China
James Suckling invested a lot in HK, has a wine club, events
Int’l wine critics are critical - Jancis Robinson, Wine Spectator, Wine Advocate

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Drinking wine since Roman times, the UK market for wine is both mature and competitive. Changes happen slowly, and old traditions remain as the market evolves. Katy Keating, Managing Director of Lay & Wheeler, one of the UK’s oldest wine merchants, gives a deep dive into the UK wine market. She explains the history of wine drinking, its impact on wine purchasing, the up-and-coming wine regions, and the fragmentation of the UK wine retail marketplace.

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Detailed Show Notes:

Lay & Wheeler (“L&W”)

Fine wine merchant, storage, and broker
Founded in 1854, after Berry Bros & Rudd (1698), Justerini & Brooks (1749), Corney & Barrow (1780)
Owned by Wheeler Family until 2009, when sold to Majestic
Never integrated into Majestic, it was a breakeven business doing ~£10-15M/year
Had access to the best wines in the world and a loyal, long-standing customer base
2016 - started turnaround to put L&W back on the map
2019 - L&W sold to a private family, expanded the team, and brought MWs to buying team
Mission - “Connect the right people with the right wines.”

UK Wine Drinking

Very competitive and mature market - drinking wine since Roman times, customers know a lot about wine, buying is very relationship-driven
2nd largest wine importer (20% from France, Italy)
70% of households buy wine regularly
Beer & spirits are also big - pub culture
~50% on-premise, ~50% off-premise
Commercial wines - ~75% by volume, grocery stores mostly
Fine wine - ~25% by volume, ~40% by value, UK is ~33% of £5B fine wine trade
UK drinker drinks wine more mature (the US drinking 2009s & 2010s, UK equivalent is 1990s, early 2000s)

Wine storage is mostly in bonded warehouses

Popular regions / varieties

Old world love - history with Bordeaux
Fine Wine - L&W is 40% Bordeaux and Burgundy
Appetite for Burgundy is “insatiable” - high pricing has driven renewed interest in Bordeaux and some intrigue with Oregon PN
South Africa has been growing last 5-6 years (L&W has seen a 50% CAGR over the previous 5 years)
Champagne growing
Fortified wines - Port is most relevant for traditional settings (including Christmas, which is significant in the UK); Sherry & Madeira are not as popular

Organic/biodynamic not asked about by fine wine consumers

UK trends

Wine for investment
UK wine production - growing overall pie for sparkling, not taking from Champagne (L&W is <0.5% the UK sparkling vs. 10% for Champagne)

UK retail market - very fragmented

No 3-tier system, merchants can buy direct from producers and sell to consumers
Consumers need to go to 5-7 merchants to get everything b/c of exclusivity with producers (fine wine)
Exclusive relationships often occur when a merchant sells to private clients and restaurants
UK wine trading is standard; L&W gets ~25% of revenue from trading
En Primeur/Futures - a big part of L&W business for Bordeaux, Burgundy, & Italy
Low end - very competitive on price, grocery dominates
Online is slow to be adopted, and many still don’t have online ordering

DTC from Europe

Historically, Brits drive to France and buy at the cellar door
In the UK, buying direct online is not a thing

Brexit impact - more paperwork, more delays, hosting tastings and bringing in samples more difficult

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Navigating a very fragmented and dynamic Chinese wine market is challenging. Ian Ford, Founding Partner, and Nichole Mao, Partner of Nimbility Asia, help guide wineries to the right pathways for import partners and building demand in China. They also discuss how important domestic Chinese wine production is, the market for US wine in China, and the importance of wine education.

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Detailed Show Notes:

Wine buying is very fragmented

An importer can sell direct, with no middlemen
With few regulations, one can buy wine everywhere, e.g., supermarkets, distributor friends, wine bars
Online ordering important, ~10-20%, WeChat, Alibaba, Jing Dong

"Go to retailers"

Sam's Club - known for wine sales to the mass market
Leading grocery stores - Jing Dong, Hema

Promoting and selling in China

Chinese social media platforms have integrated e-commerce (e.g., WeChat vs. Whatsapp, Douyin vs. TikTok), so people can immediately click and buy
KOLs get commission or paid upfront to promote, lifestyle influencers are important
Traditional wine media stays w/in the wine trade and doesn't reach the mass market
Need good importer(s) for availability, no longer need to be exclusive
View importers as partners, 1,000s of active importers, e.g., DTC importers (Vine Hu, Wiki Wines), big guys (ASC, Summergate, Torres) have extensive sales teams, operate omnichannel
Wine trials are necessary - tastings at festivals, grocery stores, etc.
Word of mouth is increasing in importance - as large KOLs are now often paid, people relying on smaller KOLs in their network more

Domestic production

Majority consumed in China, exports growing off a small base
Boutique wineries (50-100k bottles) - looking at more exports, most in Ningxia, the premium winegrowing region
Guochao movement ("national wave") - Chinese supporting domestic brands

US wine in China

9th largest by volume, 6th by value
Punitive tariffs hit imports, tariffs are more than tariffs, but a signal by the gov't not to buy the wines becomes a stigma
US wine doesn't have the legacy or prestige of Bordeaux, Burgundy, or Tuscany, but have the prices
Premium US producers are American centric not good at exports (Ridge being an exception)

Import duties

Including import, consumption, and VAT duties and taxes
Three levels:
Free Trade - ~26% - Chile, NZ, Australia (previously); wines ~1x US price
Baseline - ~48.5% - France, Italy; wines ~1.5x US price
Punitive - US, Australia (now); wines ~2x US price
Australia went off a cliff since tariffs - France benefitted the most, then New Zealand and South Africa

Wine Education important for growth

China's #2 largest student registration for WSET
WSET had to stop in 2021 due to a corporate registration issue - almost back up and running

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As one of the biggest alcohol markets in the world, China is slowly waking up to wine. Ian Ford, Founding Partner, and Nichole Mao, Partner of Nimbility Asia, walk through how the Chinese wine market has changed, what has led to success, and the current wine trends in the country. With significant growth potential, the Chinese market is a critical global wine market to grasp and understand.

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Detailed Show Notes:

Nimbility Asia

It doesn’t transact wines; not an importer
Acts like an export team for producers
Creates GTM strategy and aligns w/ the right partners
Creates research reports for data-driven decision making
Serves China (biggest market), S Korea (#2), Indonesia, India, Australia
Japan & China ~75% of wine shipments into Asia

Chinese wine consumer

Still very early stages for wine, not a daily drink for most people
2019 - 1.3 L wine/capita/year vs 51.9L for Portugal, 12.2L for US
~0.2L wine/capita/year 10-20 years ago - wine was for gifting, banqueting, and hosting, not home consumption
Coastal cities (including Beijing & Shanghai) have young consumers that go to wine bars, bistros, drink at home
The growing trend of home consumption, helped by e-commerce, gifting still exists

Chinese alcohol market

big, dynamic alcohol market - strong food & drink culture, no religious objections, very social culture
The largest beer market in the world, dominated by domestic production
Beer is a daily consumption item
Craft beer is stunted by regulations requiring a large minimum volume
Some craft beers (e.g., Boxing Cat, Great Leap) started as brewpubs

China wine market

50-60M 9L cases imported, expected to double in next 10-15 years
~100-120M 9L cases of domestic wine, hard to measure
Big domestic producers - Great Wall, Changyu, Dynasty
Emerging quality producers - Silver Heights, Grace Vineyard

Success in China

Consumer awareness creates customer pull (e.g., Casillero del Diablo, Penfolds)
Cluttered marketing environment
Unique digital landscape (no Instagram, Facebook, Twitter)
Penfolds Example (pre-tariffs) - Grange provides halo, central to the story (good formula for success), profit driver is 300k cases of Bin 407 & 389 at ~$400-450/9L case, also sold ~800-1,000 cases of Rawson’s Retreat entry-level wine
Lafite Example - Los Vascos (Chile) has higher demand due to Lafite affiliation
Sommeliers and lifestyle KOLs (key opinion leaders) can help
Social media amplification is massive

Popular regions / wines styles

Mass market - more price and style driven, like fruity, easy drinking style around ~100 RMB/bottle (~$15); Chile doing well; Cabernet and Shiraz are recognized varieties
Fine Wine - Burgundy has been the “hot bun” the last two years - pricing rising dramatically, can’t get enough; also helping NZ Pinot Noir
Very diverse market (e.g., natural wine bars in Chengdu)
Premium sparkling rising (e.g., Champagne, aged Cava)
More adventurous wine consumers (e.g., blind tasting clubs that compete with each other)
Rosé is a very small, but growing category
Fortified, sweet wines are tiny
Sustainable/organic help and are important for the future, but not big today

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Celebrating its 100th year in 2022, Vinmonopolet, the retail wine monopoly of Norway, is tasked with reducing overconsumption of alcohol while enabling a growing food and beverage culture in Norway. With over 32,000 selections, covering 95% of the population, and educating customers with podcasts and other programs, Trond Erling Pettersen, category manager, describes how the monopoly serves all segments of its customers and operates in a fair, transparent manner.

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Detailed Show Notes:

Vinmonopolet = “wine monopoly”

~95% of the population lives w/in 30 min drive of a retail store
340 shops
32,000 different products, >20,000 wines
Basic range - ~1,000 wines, always on display in stores
Ordering range - importers can stock anything, can be ordered from monopoly website or app, and have wines delivered or available for pickup
Stores can select ~25% of shelf space from the ordering range
2021 - 118M liters of alcohol sold, 96M liters of wine (10.6M 9L cases) worth KR27B (~$2.7B) - taxes and profits go back to the government

Monopoly’s purpose

Established due to overdrinking at the turn of the 20th century - it was a source of poverty, hunger, and social issues
Founded in 1922 - 100th birthday in Nov 2022
1919 - ban on spirits
1922 - created monopoly to have the responsible sale of alcohol

Restaurants and bars

Buy directly from importers and producers, do not go through monopoly
Some trends start in restaurants, then customers go to the monopoly to buy
Restaurants have higher-end wines and often cellar wines

Wine sourcing

600 importers supply monopoly, needs to go through a supplier, no direct purchasing allowed
Ordering range - free access to market, suppliers that list whatever they want
Special selection - high-end, allocated wines purchased for monopoly
Basic range:
It starts by looking at sales figures, trends, customer demands, and holes in the range
Conduct research by meeting with producers and importers
Develop a tender plan (tenders 2x/year) to outline what to purchase for the next year with very detailed specifications (e.g., max price, packaging, region, etc.)
Get samples and conduct a blind tasting panel which is scored
Launched in stores with guaranteed placement for one year
Wines then compete based on sales volume
An extensive and fair process

Pricing - uses a standard formula

Average wine - ~50% taxes, ~10-15% monopoly margin, ~35-40% supplier share
Monopoly provides calculators for suppliers to set pricing
Pricing transparency on the website

Secondary market

Started auctions ~10 years ago for people to trade wines
Monopoly has people that value and inspect wines
Set % fee for monopoly margin (lower than US auction houses)
Partnered with an auction house

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While traditionally a beer and spirits market, wine has now risen to equal footing in Norway. As a category manager for Vinmonopolet, the retail wine monopoly of Norway, Trond Erling Pettersen describes the wine culture in Norway, the four categories of wine consumers, and the major trends for wine consumption.

Detailed Show Notes:

Wine in Norway

Wine is now equal to beer and spirits, traditionally was more beer & spirits
Norwegians into food and wine pairing, don’t have the traditions of Continental Europe
Higher taxes on alcohol reduce consumption, but it doesn’t impact wine; taxes are set by abv, so spirits are taxed higher than wine which is higher than beer - pushing consumers to lower alcohol drinks
Alcohol advertising is banned
Consumption is lower than in other Scandinavian countries - Denmark (which does not have a monopoly) - 10L alcohol/person/year, Finland ~9L, Sweden ~7L, Norway ~6L
Big seasonal impacts - more spirits and big reds in winter, whites and rose in summer, but changing with more sparkling and rose year round
Norwegians don’t have a strong restaurant culture, so most wine is bought from monopoly and consumed at home

The monopoly sells 96M liters of wine (10.6M 9L cases) - 53M liters red, 27M liters white, 8M liters sparkling, 5M liters rose

No other retailers of wine, not allowed to buy wine at a restaurant and take it home

Four main customer groups

“Open Minded” - the largest group has a price limit but is willing to spend (KR150-200, ~$15-20), likes to try something new - often recommended by monopoly staff or a journalist
“Assured Customer” - know what they want, educated in wine, clear preferences
“Price Focused” - ~20% of customers; lower priced wines, convenience is essential
“Collectors” - ~10% of customers, very educated in wine and food, willing to pay for quality
Higher end segment is growing
Pandemic got more people into wine
The average price is rising for all segments

Organic, biodynamic, and fair trade are important to some customers

Lightweight bottles, bag-in-box preferred by customers for environmental impact and practical use for bringing to summer cabins and on boats

Bag-in-box popular last 15-20 years, now top categories supply it (e.g. - Chablis, Sancerre, Piedmont Nebbiolo); up to KR500-600/ 3L box ($50-60)

Journalists have a large impact on sales

Bodega Weinert (Argentina) said 30% of sales are to Norway, and wine reviews drive sales
Journalists are important because of no advertising
Collectors may follow international wine journalists, but the majority follow national or local newspaper wine writers
Local journalists use dice as a rating scale (1-6) vs. 100 point system
Monopoly has >32k products to select from, so journalists help with recommendations
Monopoly’s podcast educates on drinks and food, regions and grapes, and answers consumers’ questions (e.g., glassware), but doesn’t mention specific producers or products

Norwegian wine trends - 7 main ones

1) Known and Dear - the classics on the rise
2) Expanding Wine World - emerging wine regions (e.g., UK, Canada, Scandinavia, cool climate regions, etc.)
3) Alternative Packaging - bag-in-box (can be 50-60% of sales for some categories)
4-6) Green and sustainable, authentic/handcrafted, organic/natural, vegan/no sugar/lower alcohol (the no-low alcohol wine trend is also in Norway)
7) Young, Urban Consumer - into natural wines, skin contact whites, juicy red wines, more social eating and drinking, want genuine, handcrafted products (e.g., pet nats)

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Operating your own winery is expensive. The custom crush business model enables small wineries to solve this. Robert Morris, the founder of Grand Cru Custom Crush in Sonoma County, explains the benefits of the custom crush model, how it works, and how Grand Cru has changed the custom crush game.

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Detailed Show Notes:

Robert’s background

A Mechanical engineer by training worked at HP
Became partner at Copain Custom Crush (renamed Punchdown Cellars)
2016 - founded Grand Cru Custom Crush (“GCCC”)

Custom crush (“cc”) definition(s):

Grower w/ extra grapes that are crushed into a finished product
People who source grapes and have a private label
Operate in a custom crush facility b/c operations are too small to have its own facility (where GCCC operates)

Custom crush vs. own winery

High startup costs (location, permits, winery equipment)
Winery equipment utilization is low - own facility ~10 days/year; cc - ~2.5 months
High utilization requires a diverse client base (e.g., sparkling wines to big Napa Cabernets = spread out crush times)
CC has expertise in maintaining winery equipment
CC can do aggregated sourcing for winery supplies (e.g., argon, acid) but does not do sourcing for packaging (a more personal choice)
CC has more knowledge sharing

GGCC

Combines custom crush and hospitality space (differentiator)
Has a strict set of procedures and protocols for operations

CC business models

1) A la carte - separate pricing for each operation (e.g., pressing, punchdowns, racking, etc.,)
2) Per ton fee, all-inclusive - covers everything from grape reception until bottling
Crush fees - Sonoma - ~$2,700-3,300/ton (~$38-45/case); Napa costs 2x Sonoma
GCCC fee ~$3,300/ton, including use of hospitality area
Overvintaging - ~$300-400/ton extra
Other fees/costs - winemaking (if using GCCC’s), filtration, bottling (believes hard to justify bottling line investment until ~100,000 cases)

Visitation

Consistently busy Thursday-Monday
Uses Tock to manage reservations - integrated into clients and GCCC websites
Clients can hold events at the facility

CC trends

CC market is still growing (e.g., Red Custom Crush keeps expanding), growth mainly on the larger production side
Has seen overvintaging (where wines are aged in barrel over 1 year) increase from ~25-30% 10-15 years ago to ~70% now = takes up more floor space
Sees wine conversion ~51-53 cases/ton for premium production vs. 60+ for lower quality (e.g., pressing harder)

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Building a global brand takes a lot of effort and investment. Even with the network of >400 negociants on La Place de Bordeaux, wineries have to make significant investments in brand building and press. Rebekah Wineburg, Winemaker, and Diego Garay, Director of Exports for Quintessa in Napa Valley, discuss their journey towards selling in 50 countries in 3 years through the La Place system.

Detailed Show Notes:

Rebekah’s background

She wanted to be a winemaker at 16
Worked in Italy, New Zealand, Australia, and mainly in CA
At Quintessa for 7 years

Diego’s background

Worked on exports for Sena and Almaviva in Chile, who export ~98-99% of production
Director of Export for all Huneeus wines

Quintessa

Estate winery in Rutherford, Napa
160 acres of vineyards and make 1 red wine (Quintessa) - ~8-12k cases/year
Until recently, it mostly sold domestically - ~50% DTC, ~50% US wholesale

La Place de Bordeaux Overview

A marketplace where most Bordeaux wines are traded, often futures
3-tier system - chateaux sell to negociants, who sell to international trade
Criteria to be on La Place - brand pedigree (e.g., high scores) and a well-known brand
Wineries need to build demand for negociants w/o the help of importers, as they are not brand builders
New world wines have only been selling through La Place for the last 15-20 years
Courtiers (brokers that find negociants) - some specialize in new world wines
400 negociants on La Place
Non-exclusive system

Exporting via La Place

2022 - exports ~5-15% of production, primarily Asia, UK, Germany, Switzerland
The goal of exporting - build a world-recognized wine estate
Long-term export goals - ~30-35% of production
Prior to La Place - exported ~1% to Canada, Japan, Mexico
They started selling on La Place in 2019
Negociant reached out to Quintessa looking for new world wines
Quintessa working w/ <10 negociants directly w/o a courtier
Demand growing - negociants asking for more wines, need to start allocating them
Need to do a lot of education for global trade on what makes Quintessa unique (e.g., terroir, place), need to show the history and age-ability of wines

Benefits of La Place

It helps put wines in a global perspective (e.g., Rebekah had to start presentations with CA instead of Rutherford or Napa)
Reach high-end distribution in a short period of time - Quintessa is now in 50 countries in 3 years

Tradeoffs of La Place

Need to invest in brand building
May see discounting due to the non-exclusive system
Logistics - send all wines to Bordeaux, which are then sent on to the rest of the world (more manageable for the winery but may have extra ship lengths)
Loose control of distribution (try to get depletion reports but challenging as clientele list is the most valuable asset of negociants)

Costs of La Place and pricing

Similar to 3-tier in the US
Negociant margins are often lower than in the US due to non-exclusivity
Try to keep pricing in-line w/ US pricing
Has not seen any pushback on price

Marketing with La Place

Set up training sessions through negociants with trade
A lot of media investment (local journalists, local PR firms)
Focused on UK, Japan, S Korea for press

Advice for wineries interested in La Place

Need to know the La Place system
Need to build the brand yourself and make the investment
Need the pedigree and brand for the wines to be successful

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Co-operative wineries, popular throughout Europe, are generally associated with higher volume, lower quality wines. Not at Domäne Wachau, where Winery Director Roman Horvath MW has been leading the quality vision for its family growers to great success. Roman discusses how co-ops work, how they pay their growers to get to zero income, and how managing a co-op is different from other companies.

Detailed Show Notes:

Roman’s background

He started in wine in his mid-20s
Worked in restaurants, wine internships in Chile & France was a buyer/importer in Austria
Been w/ Domäne Wachau for 17 years

Co-op definition

Produces wine from grapes from grower-members
Every member has a share in the company
Each grower manages its own vineyard
Co-ops in Europe - Spain/France/Italy - >50% of production, Germany ~33%, Austria - ~15-20%
Most co-ops are volume-driven with some exceptions
Most were established in the 1920-1930s to balance the power of small farmers with strong retailers
Since the 1990s, the increase in wine quality worldwide has left many co-ops behind as they are too large and volume-driven
Crucial to separate grower function from management, which needs professional expertise

Domäne Wachau

~400ha (~1,000 acres)
~250 family growers (each family may have multiple owners)
Avg family ~1-2 ha, largest 8-10ha, 3-4ha+ for full-time growers
Small vineyards led to a deep specialization in the site
Growers must follow the co-op’s quality schemes
Precise picking plan for all growers
Up to 70-80 different wines, ~3M bottles/year (~250k cases)

Domäne Wachau vs. other co-ops

Growers can have some of their own production; most co-ops are “all in or all out”
Push for quality - driven by a strong vision, community, and communication with growers
The goal is to increase the salary/income of growers

Co-op management

Very democratic - each grower votes in the General Assembly for the board of directors (8-10)
Each grower has one vote, not weighted by vineyard size
Management driven by the management team
Not profit-driven
Pays growers technically in €/kg of grapes, but with a complex system (e.g., higher payments for terraces, hand work, Riesling vs. Gruner, sustainable/organic farming)
Payment split over the year every other month
Goal: pay as much as possible for grapes to get to $0 profit
Option to leave the co-op, generally on 3-5 year minimum contracts
Anyone can join but have strict quality qualifications
Try to increase wine pricing every year (for quality positioning and inflation)
In small harvests, have the balance sheet to balance payments between years

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A lot can be learned through collaborating. Even how to stay calm during a pandemic when your Italian partner is in the thick of it. Calm with the perspective of 26 generations of winemaking and having survived two World Wars. Juan Munoz-Oca, Head Winemaker for Ste Michelle Wine Estates, Washington State's leading wine company, describes what he's learned and the process of collaborating with other luminaries of the wine world, including the Antinori Family, Dr Loosen, and Michel Gassier from the Rhone Valley.

Detailed Show Notes:

Juan's background

In WA with Ste Michelle Wine Estates ("SMWE") for 21 years
Head of winemaking for the entire group

Ste Michelle Wine Estates

Based in WA state - 6 wineries (Chateau Ste Michelle ("CSM"), Columbia Crest, 14 Hands, Spring Valley, Northstar, Col Solare)
OR (Erath), CA (Stag's Leap Wine Cellars, Conn Creek, Patz & Hall)
Built the WA wine region, produces ~⅔ of the wine in the state
The largest producer of Riesling in the world

Collaborations - all w/ Chateau Ste Michelle

Col Solare - Red Mountain, Cabernet, 50/50 JV w/ the Antinori Family (Italy), planted a vineyard in the early 2000s, built a winery in 2006, started in the mid-90s
Eroica - Riesling with Ernie Loosen (Mosel, Germany) started in the 1990s
Tenet - Columbia Valley; Syrah, Grenache, Mourvedre; w/ Michel Gassier & Philippe Cambie (deceased)

What drove the collaborations?

A personal touch and relationship
WA is a young grape-growing region that only started quality winemaking in the late 90s -> wanted to bring attention to the region and gain knowledge
Ex-CEOs important to establishing collaborations - Allen Shoup (founded Longshadows Winery, which has 7 wines and 7 collaborations); Ted Baseler - was part of marketing team when Col Solare was launched and started Eroica with Ernie Loosen

Collaboration process

Winemaking - spring (taste previous vintage, blend, walk the vineyards), late summer (get a feel for the grapes, walk the vineyards), winter (taste wines - e.g., 250-300 lots of Riesling for Eroica)
Renzo (Antinori's head winemaker) comes more often due to SMWE's partnership w/ Antinori on Stag's Leap Wine Cellars
CSM winemaking team does day-to-day work
Sales & Marketing - up to the partners, SMWE salesforce sells the wine, SMWE marketing works with partners and does most of the work
SMWE imports the entire Antinori portfolio, so they have a broader collaboration

Key benefits

Enjoyment of making wine together
Getting a global perspective
Winemaking informs the rest of the portfolio's winemaking (e.g., extended lees aging for Riesling from Ernie Loosen, keeping more leaves in the canopy for Syrah from Michel Gassier)

Collaboration business models

Col Solare - 50/50 JV, including vineyards, winery, & inventory; work together closely on marketing
Eroica - 50/50 for inventory and brand, no other assets; up to 200k cases in a big year; most marketing done by SMWE, less from Loosen
Tenet - Michel Gassier gets a portion of earnings and an annual fee that covers his travel; as small as 300 cases
Have business meetings 2x/year for sales and marketing strategy

Keys to success for collaborations

Have a clearly articulated vision
Keep an open mind to learn from the other

Desired new collaborations

Sparkling wine w/ Nicolas Feuillatte (Champagne)
Argentine wine / Malbec w/ Catena Family - loves their focus on terroir

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Seeing the opportunity of bringing solutions in the financial markets to fine wine, James Miles, CEO and Co-Founder of Liv-ex, launched the London International Vintners Exchange (“Liv-ex”). Through standard contracts, guaranteed trades, and a plethora of data, Liv-ex is making the fine wine market more transparent, efficient, and safe. Though the Liv-ex 100 and 1000 indices are what it may be best known for, it is an end-to-end trading platform. Listen to James explain it all as well as market trends on this episode of XChateau!

Detailed Show Notes:

Liv-ex background

Founded in 2000
Based on the similarities between wine and stocks, leverages financial solutions for wine
Mission - make the fine wine market more transparent, efficient, and safe
An exchange for wine - London International Vintners Exchange (Liv-ex is the acronym) - an end-to-end solution to buy and sell wine, including price discovery, trading, and logistics to ship wine globally
Customers (merchants) in 42 countries, Liv-ex doesn’t compete and sell to restaurants, hotels, or represent producers

Trading on Liv-ex

An order matching system - customers place buy and sell orders on the platform
Bids are firm, cannot cancel orders - a new concept for wine, which is usually “subject to availability”
Created standard contract for wine trading - includes condition, when to pay, and when it will be delivered
The order book is a queuing system - 1st based on price, 2nd by the time of bid, the book is always open

Wine traded on the platform

2010: £55M traded across 1,000 wines - 97% Bordeaux, top 10 Bordeauxs + DRC = 70%
2022: £100M traded across 15,000 wines - Bordeaux ~35%, Burgundy, ~25-30%, Champagne / Italy ~10%, CA growing; France still ~70-75%
Transactions are growing ~20% per year, but avg price is declining

Merchants

580 merchants on the platform
2022 - UK ~35%, Europe ~40%, USA - ~15%, Asia ~10%
Fastest growth - USA, Europe, slowest - Asia

Provenance/condition of wines

Joining Liv-ex requires review by the membership committee - look at financials, where wines are bought, etc.
Has data-sharing initiatives with customers
Has special contract for older / rarer wines (takes into account more information)

Liv-ex Data

Liv-ex Fine Wine 100 index - tracks most traded wines, uses production and scarcity weighting vs. just price (multiplies price by # of cases and depreciates this over time; price is mid-point of bid-offer spread or last transaction price)
Liv-ex 1000 - price-weighted, top 100 wines and last 10 physical vintages, breaks down to regional indices
If no price from the platform takes price from customer listings or valuation committee
An active market in ~15,000 wines but tracks ~350k wines
Customers have ~$1.5B of wine actively marketing

Market trends

Burgundy is the big winner; Champagne & Italy did well, especially w/ US tariffs
Top increases: DRC, Roumier, Leflaive, Selosse, Salon, top Italian wines / Barolos
Everything w/ a hint of Leroy doing well (e.g., Arnoux Lachaux has risen 4x having worked for Leroy in the past)
Wine has been doing well so far against macro headwinds (e.g., Brexit, tariffs, Covid, war, inflation), and physical assets are an excellent place to be

Business model

Membership fee - based on features used and amount of data consumed
Trading fee - 2-3% commission on both sides, usually ~5% of total trade (low vs alternatives - wholesaler - 10-20%, auctions - 25-30%, importer/agent - 30%+)
Settlement fee (per unit fee) for logistics

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After two years and over 100 episodes of XChateau, Robert and Peter reflect on how the wine industry has changed, the major themes that have popped up in the show, and some of the lessons they have learned in the process. From the changes to social media, the spectrum of fine wine to everyday wines, and the importance of social issues, XChateau has covered a broad array of critical business topics for the wine industry. Supporters on Patreon get access to the entire library of content and episodes.

Detailed Show Notes:

Social media is changing rapidly

The rise of TikTok (in the last 6 months - late 2021 and early 2022 - for wine)
Platforms are overlapping (e.g., Instagram’s Reels and IGTV)
YouTube is still the place for high production value
More than pictures now, a lot more interactivity and video -> creates a higher barrier of entry for influencers
Wine video improving - more than the historic Gary V, Wine Library YouTube; e.g., WineKing, Andre Mack (Bon Appetit), Konstantin (MW in Germany)
SommTV is paid streaming vs. advertising backed by social media (which can be tricky with alcohol), but SommTV doesn’t have the social element and interaction

CellarTracker is now expanding after over a decade, building on the community, expanding what was one of the first freemium models

XChateau covered a broad spectrum of the wine world

High end - ARENI research on fine wine consumers, wine auctions, wine investing, counterfeits
Everyday wines - 19 Crimes (A/R, celebrities), FitVine (clean, good for you wine trends), Hammeken Cellars (crafting everyday wines)
Wine investment - was hot, unclear future with the macroeconomic environment changing (higher interest rates, inflation, war in Ukraine); Burgundy still doing well currently, primarily due to limited supply
Grocery wine has seen significant shifts - re-opening has moved wine back to restaurants from grocery, will a potential recession increase grocery wine from fine wine retail?

Evolution of the wine critic was a popular series - guests (e.g., William Kelly, Jeb Dunnuck, Esther Mobley) were very candid and open

Social issues were an important topic - diversity, gender equality, climate change

Diversity and inclusion is a potential pathway to bridge the gap in the wine industry from a smaller Gen X cohort
Things like Tablas Creek’s $95 bag-in-a-box wine as a solution for environmental impact

Topics to tackle next:

Global wine markets and trends
Different business models (e.g., co-ops, custom crush facilities)
Understanding the wine buying journey of collectors and wine consumers

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As the winemaker’s last choice before wines go in the bottle, cork has played an important role in wine ever since bottles could be made with consistent necks. The consistency of corks is another challenge that Diam is tackling. Francois Margot, Director of Sales, North America describes how Diam is creating corks with choices and consistency for aging, oxygen transfer, and initial oxygen release.

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Detailed Show Notes:

Diam Corks

Cork was originally used for wine bottles when glass could be made with regular necks, chosen because it’s elastic to close the bottle
Elasticity goes down slowly over time
Regular corks are not consistent, Diam developed them to provide consistency
Consistency with structure and oxygen ingress - granulates corks (granulation spreads contamination everywhere) and then cleaned them (w/ supercritical CO2)
Cleaned to be undetectable by gas chromatography (down to 0.3 nanograms/liter)
Clean more than TCA, but all anisole molecules (150+ compounds)
Can choose the aging potential and amount of O2 ingress for wine needs

Cost of closures

Punch corks - different prices based on looks of closures (no impact on consistency)
Diam - 10-80 cents/cork

Value proposition of Diam

1 - consistency – both in aging and oxygen transfer
2 - Not tainting wine – if ~3% of wines are tainted, recover the full value; can detect TCA as low as 1 nanogram/liter, not 1 case of TCA in 20 years
Other producers sort corks
3 – winemaker choice – able to choose closures based on desired evolution of the wine
Brand value – avoided destruction of brand value from tainted corks
No additional bottling line setup – e.g. – screwcaps require setting up a different bottling line with different components
Diam is not as sensitive to humidity vs. regular corks
Building the ROI – look at claims and returned bottles that will be avoided

Range of Diam products

Range based on aging capacity – 5-30 years
Range of OTRs (oxygen transfer rates) and OIRs (oxygen initial release) – 3 options of OTR and OIR
Oxygen ingress from corks in non-linear – initial oxygen enters wine from cork in the first 6 months (OIR), and then some oxygen passes through cork (OTR)
Wines for long aging may desire higher initial oxygen ingress (OIR), but lower long-term oxygen levels (OTR)
Began differentiating OTR and OIR 3 years ago

2 main patents

Cleaning process – removes 150+ compounds from cork
Re-building process – ensures elasticity of cork, contains 3 ingredients – cork (~95%), binding agents, beeswax/plastic microspheres which fill in holes and prevent moisture in the cork
Can use any thickness of cork, including thinner blocks, buys from the same producers as regular corks
Removes woody part of cork (lignin), which is up to 20-40% of bark, and uses it to burn for electricity; keeps suberin part, which is the elastic part

Burgundy premox issues – Diam has helped but the issue is not just the closure

Diam for sparkling wine

Regular corks are 24mm in diameter, Champagne corks 30-31mm in diameter
“Mytic” brand of Diam corks – same structure as regular Diam corks, but bigger diameter
Diam has ~30% market share for sparkling wine
CIVC doing research into O2 into wine
Coming out with cork for tirage next year to provide options vs crown caps, which give consistent OTR

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Interview with Carlos de Jesus, Director of Marketing and Communications for Amorim Corks in Portugal, the largest cork company in the world, which celebrated its 150th anniversary in 2020. We discussed the various uses of cork, the differences between corks and other closures, and how the business of cork has evolved over the decades.

This episode originally aired in September of 2020. To access the rest of our library and support the show via Patreon!

Detailed Show Notes:

Amorim - 150-year history, largest cork company in the world, produces 5.5 billion stoppers per year, over 18,000 winery clients globally, most small

Sources cork from 1,000s of property owners, mainly in Portugal and Spain

Uses of cork: wine, footwear, fishing, aerospace, flooring, and sports

Differences between cork and other closures: technical, sustainability, and additional value add

Technical differences

Oxygen transfer rate (OTR) - plastic (lets in too much oxygen), screwcap (lets in too little), cork (“just right”)
Average cork has 800 million cells in it
TCA - “we have defeated TCA” - mitigated to the point where cork is now gaining market share
Consistency of corks - not an issue for technical stoppers (micro agglomerates, twin top), a technology used to help with natural corks

Sustainability - people, planet, profits

CO2 - a single cork can have up to 562 g CO2 sink per stopper
Cork harvesting one of the best paid agricultural jobs, ~€125-135 / day for three months/year
Cork forests are 1 of 36 hot spots for biodiversity in the world
Cork forests help prevent forest fires, regulate water cycles, and trees live 200-250 years
Corks are both compostable and recyclable (e.g., ReCORK America)

Additional value add = the happy sound of a cork popping

Of the 100 most sold brands in the US (data from Nielson), the average price of wine with cork is consistently higher than other closures

Closure market

19.5B closures per year
12.5B closed with cork (~70%)
1.8-1.9B single-use plastic stoppers

The price of cork ranges from €0.04 - 3.00 per cork

Screwcaps (the lowest price), plastic, cork
Cork can now sometimes undercut the price of plastic

Supply and demand for cork

2.2M hectares of cork forests in the Western Mediterranean - lots of trees to supply the current industry
It takes 43 years for a cork tree to supply cork for a wine closure -> new research with micro-irrigation is reducing the first harvest from 25 years to 10-12 years

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As a 7th generation family-owned and run company, being sustainable means building towards the future for the next generations. That’s the philosophy that has led Champagne Louis Roederer to move towards organic farming with biodynamic and permaculture principles since 2000. With 100% of its historic estate (50% of total vineyard holdings) certified organic, this process has had a significant impact on the quality of the fruit and wines as well as the bottom line. Jean-Baptiste Lecaillon, EVP and Chef du Cave at Champagne Louis Roederer and Xavier Barlier, SVP of Marketing and Communications of Maison Marques & Domaines USA (Roederer’s import arm), tell us about this transition, strategy, and its market positioning.

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Detailed Show Notes:

Beginning in 2000, started moving farming towards organic, including some biodynamic and permaculture philosophies

Organic is just stopping the use of herbicides and pesticides, but that’s it

Biodynamic practices for JBL are less about Rudolph Steiner’s philosophy but more about paying attention to the land and ecosystem, aligned more with the permaculture movement

About adding life back into the soil and building fertility, which comes with decreased use of copper and sulfur that are used in organic farming

We can do this at Roederer because it’s a family-owned business with 7 generations, building for the next generation and the future

Roederer does its own massale selection, own rootstocks, and compost

Impact on growers

Impacts more the future generation of growers, need to educate them
Roederer single-vineyard ferments everything and tastes the growers on their own vineyards
Assigned a Roederer enologist dedicated to grower relations

Organic trends in Champagne

20 years ago - <1%
10 years ago - 2.5%
Last year (2021) - ~8-9%
A result of the new generation coming into viticulture

More expensive to farm organically/biodynamically

More labor-intensive - need to be available 7 days/week
Increased workforce by 15% due to more labor needs

Yield has decreased due to new farming

Up to 30% yield reduction in some years
The 10-year average is ~5-10% reduction in yield

Marketing organics - plays into desires to support the environment

Roederer began organics in 2000 with 6ha -> in 2020, 125ha (50% of estate)

Organically certified vineyards are 100% of the historic estate
Organic vineyards are the Cristal and Vintage wines

The future of Champagne - maybe more of all 7 permitted varieties will play a role, with more of a focus on the genetic material of the vines

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Sparkling wine is trending at the moment and no brand best embodies the trend more than cult California sparkling wine producer Ultramarine. Michael Cruse, the founder of Ultramarine and Cruse Wine Co, explains how he developed a passion for sparkling wine that led to his accidental success. He covers how Ultramarine took off, techniques and production practices that have business implications he took from Champagne, pricing, and his view on sales channels.

Detailed Show Notes:

Ultramarine

Started in 2008, 1st real vintage was 2010
Sparkling wine in CA that focuses on coastal single vineyards, high acid, single vintage
Precise production style - not copying Champagne, but taking some techniques and applying them to CA
Harvest ~1,000 cases/year, ~500-750 cases make the cut for release
Limited ability to grow (due to lack of suitable fruit sources), target ~1,200-1,500 case range

Cruse Wine Co

Started in 2013, supposed to be a custom crush facility
Initially not for sparkling wine, an interest in Valdiguie
Later realized his passion was in sparkling wine - does pet nats, more experimental, more oxidative styles
Focus on CA as a whole vs. coastal vineyards of Ultramarine
~7,000 cases/year (2018 was peak ~8,500 cases)

The capital intensity of producing sparkling

Cruse Tradition takes ~40 months to make which means 3 vintages must be paid for before selling any wine (e.g. - fruit, glass ($2+/bottle), etc…) - this limits growth
Ultramarine spends 38-48 months en tirage, found this to be its sweet spot

Sparkling wine equipment

Bought own equipment vs. doing custom crush at Rack & Riddle - partially due to using a bottle that they would not take
Follows many Champagne producers - they may use co-op press, but do own elevage and disgorgement
Uses a gyropalette, which requires some bentonite (riddling aid)

Long term relationship with growers is important -> growing sparkling is different than still wine grapes

Varietal impact on winemaking

Chardonnay - less fruit, more minerality - be more reductive to preserve fruit
Pinot Noir - more fruit, less minerality - be more oxidative to get more minerality

Pricing

Value spaces (~$20-25/bottle), e.g. - Gloria Ferrer, Roederer Estate, Cruse doesn’t have the scale or capital to compete here
Doesn’t think he can sell 10,000 cases @ $70/bottle
Believes he can sell 5-10,000 cases @ $45-55/bottle
Unclear how Champagne price inflation will impact market opportunity for domestic sparkling
Ultramarine secondary pricing - goes for 3x release price; believes it’s only ~30 bottles/year @ $200/bottle, could not sell entire production at that price point

Sales channels

Cruse - ⅓ DTC, ⅓ domestic wholesale, ⅓ export (Asia - Japan, Singapore strong)
Ultramarine - 90-95% DTC - believes sweet spot is ~80% DTC to get more into restaurants

Ultramarine mailing list

Big supporters early on propelled the brand (e.g. - the NYC crew of Patrick Cappiello, Levi Dalton, and Pascaline Lepeltier)
Instagram helped to fuel growth
Took 3 releases (2012 release) to get a waiting list
Wine Berserkers also helped

Cruse launch plan

No real plan initially focused on friends & family
Hardy Wallace helped get wines in front of distributors

Relationships with certain wine critics help

The website is unintentionally sparse but does longer allocation emails

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As the climate and resulting fruit quality change, winemakers must adapt to achieve the highest quality. That led the historic (246 years as of 2022) Champagne house of Louis Roederer to create Brut Premier in 1986 to overcome the challenges of underripe vintages, particularly in the 1970s. In 2022, another evolution has occurred, where the fruit is consistently ripe, and the main challenge is to preserve freshness. Thus, the launch of the Collection series, evolving the non-vintage Brut Premier into a multi-vintage wine that represents the best of the base vintage, the house style, and the push for freshness. Jean-Baptiste Lecaillon, EVP and Chef du Cave at Champagne Louis Roederer, and Xavier Barlier, SVP of Marketing and Communications of Maison Marques & Domaines USA (Roederer’s import arm), tell us about this transition, strategy, and its market positioning.

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Detailed Show Notes:

Champagne Louis Roederer

246 years old
Owns ~600 acres of vineyards
70% of grapes from own vineyards - “grower first”
70% of quality comes from grapes for Champagne

The “New Champagne” trend

Driven by climate change and a resultant change in farming
Grapes have more expression and flavors; picked earlier and healthier
Need to adapt winemaking and farming to these new grapes
Grapes are picked earlier than 40 years ago, but similar to the late 1880s

The Grower Champagne movement - “a fantastic movement”

The growers survived due to the sales prowess of the Houses and have always had a close relationship between them
Due to climate change, it’s now possible to bottle wine themselves, whereas in the past, blending at scale was necessary due to the significant variation in quality
Terroir is now being revealed, of which both growers and Houses are moving towards

Collection series launch

Brut Premier was created in 1986, after the ’70s which were challenging years, so the non-vintage was created to make consistent, even quality wines
Using non-vintage to correct unripe grapes
With climate change, the challenge is different with ripe grapes; need to give freshness to the wines
Collection focuses on freshness, wants to reach the elite of the multi-vintage category, to be the best blend possible instead of consistency of house style
A modern evolution of Brut Premier, which is in the context of Champagne changing (100 years ago Champagne was sweet, 50 years ago it moved to a drier aperitif wine)

Collection production methods

Perpetual reserve (“PR”) - a new tool to ensure freshness and minerality, as well as the complexity of age
PR started in 2012 with 50% Pinot Noir, 50% Chardonnay, lots specifically selected for their freshness
PR has the new vintage added to it every year, and it becomes more and more complex over time
PR is aged in large tanks (1,000hl) with no oxygen, kept at 12C (underground cellar temp) for prolonged aging
Collection blend includes ~30-35% PR, ~10% reserve wines aged in oak, ~55-60% from the most recent harvest
Brut Premier had 6-10% oak reserve wines, which were the house signature of Roederer; Collection increases this signature

Brut Premier no longer made

Removed to have more consistency in the lineup, Collection is more “Roederer” than Brut Premier

Collection pricing

Product is more expensive to make, so pricing is higher than Brut Premier
Collection is multi-vintage (like Krug Grand Cuvee and Jacquesson), at a higher level than non-vintage

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Sharing a name causes confusion. Trademark and appellation laws are there to protect them. However, it can be harder to resolve when this confusion is within the same country. That’s the challenge Montepulciano (both the town and and the wine Vino Nobile di Montepulciano) faces against its bigger neighbor Montepulciano d’Abruzzo. Max de Zarobe of Avignonesi describes the history, challenges, and steps taken to clarify the names and the wines.

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Detailed Show Notes:

Max’s background - in shipping, ended up in wine by mistake

Avignonesi background

Originally a noble family from Montepulciano
Based in the SE part of Tuscany, close to Umbria
Best known for Vin Santo
Top 5 producers in the region (~175ha planted; ~100/~1,300ha of Vino Nobile)

Vino Nobile di Montepulciano (“VN”)

From the town of Montepulciano, Tuscany
Historically controlled by Florence
Min 70-80% Sangiovese, trend for all local varietals
Three years to produce
~10M bottles annually
~3x the price of MA
Named “Nobile” due to nobility consuming the wine in history - only two places in Italy were known for noble wine vs. wine for food, Barolo and Montepulciano
Once famed as the best wine in Tuscany - it was imported by Thomas Jefferson to the US (~$250/year)

Montepulciano d’Abruzzo (“MA”)

From the province of Umbria (East Italy)
It uses the Montepulciano grape variety
One year to produce
~120M bottles annually

Other naming confusions resolved by the EU: Champagne/Cava, Tokaji/Tocai, Prosecco/Glera. Internationall, cross border conflicts get good support from their governments

Naming conflict a domestic dispute - VN did not get gov’t support as it is small (Montepulciano has ~18k people/~15k voters; Abruzzo is ~2.2M people/~2M voters)

VN is challenged by the squeeze between Brunello (confusion w/ Montalcino, leads the American market due to investment of Banfi) and MA (shared name)

VN promotion challenges & actions

No one spoke English (even the President and GM of Consorzio do not speak English); Avignonesi has organized local English classes for children
Consorzio tried to get support from politicians but unsuccessful
As of last year, put “Vino di Toscana” on the label - limited impact as many don’t know Abruzzo is a province
Want to highlight “Nobile” vs. full VN name
Issue: can’t use an adjective to name a wine (EU law), “Nobile” is both an adjective and a noun; thus the full VN name was adopted
Alliance Vinum, a band of 6 producers, uses “Nobile” by printing it on the “back” label, which is functionally the front label

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The low and no alcohol wine space is growing rapidly. Enough so that a company specializing in spinning cone technology to reduce alcohol, ConeTech, changed its name to BevZero. Debbie Novograd, CEO, and Kayla Winter, Director of Product Services & Winemaking, discuss the technology, the challenges of producing good no alcohol wine, and the market for low and no alcohol wines.

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Detailed Show Notes:

Alcohol reduction technologies

Reverse Osmosis - pass wine through filters, removes water and alcohol, can only bring down abv by a few % per pass, requires multiple passes to get to 0% (more taken out of the wine)
Spinning Cones - creates thin film vacuum distillation with heat added (37C) to extract alcohol w/o cooking wine, only spends a few seconds in still

BevZero history

Founded in 1991 as ConeTech as a tool in the winemaker’s toolbelt to adjust alcohol to hit a “sweet spot”
Before 2018, >14% abv wines had a higher excise tax, alcohol reduction used to bring wines below 14%

Spinning Cone technology

Can pull off different substances with different molecular weights (more than alcohol if desired)
Small units (1,000L/hour) start at $1.5M
GoLo tech starts at $500-650k

Definitions

Low alcohol wine: 5.5-10% abv
No alcohol wine: 0-0.5% abv

Uses of technology by geography

Europe - 99% for 0% abv products
USA - until 2 years ago - 90% for alc adjustment, 10% for low/no alc
USA - 2022 - 30% low/no alc -> 50% in 2023
Very large players doing adjustment
No alc - mostly startups, recently, big players interested

Market Sizing

Non-alc space $2B in 2021 -> forecasts range from $3.5 - 6B over next 10 years
IWSR projects no/low growing faster (7% CAGR) vs. alcohol (1% CAGR)
Wine has been slower growth
North America no alc wine market - $450M in 2021
Low alc mainly US (bigger than no alc) and Australia
No alc beer - 75% of total space

Producing no alc wine challenging

Need suitable grape varieties for base wine - fruit-forward and aromatic work best
Acid, color, tannin get concentrated
Sparkling does well; bubbles mask the lack of weight (bubbles through forced carbonation)
No alc is an FDA product - can add more ingredients (e.g., natural flavors, mouthfeel agents), must have a nutritional panel
Initial no alc wines used bad base wine and added lots of sugar to compensate
Many sweeten with grape juice concentrate, but trend is towards less sweet (now ~high 20g/L sugar)

Price points

Original products were $5-6/bottle, now up to $30/bottle
Majority are in the $10-15/bottle range, largest customer does still & sparkling wine in the $25-30/bottle range

Consumer use cases

Main segment (70%) - people who still drink alcohol, drink both low and no alc wines
Abstainers a small %
Gen Z pushing growth
Low alc targets lower calorie, lower carb segment
Meets a ritualistic need that non-alc fills

Branding and sales

No alc startups sell DTC, leveraging social media marketing
Low alc has some big players - 50/50 develop new brands, some use existing
Specialty online retailers for low/no alc

Higher quality products will drive future growth

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With the rapidly changing social media landscape, TikTok has started (as of late 2021, early 2022) to arrive as a place for wine lovers. Wine influencer Amanda McCrossin (somm_vivant) has gained momentum in this “wild west” and now has over 100k followers. She shares her journey, best practices, and what makes TikTok special.

Detailed Show Notes:

Former sommelier and wine director at Press Napa Valley, full background on Episode 12

Featured in SF Chronicle article about TikTok and wine (March 2022)

2 of Amanda’s videos converted well for wineries, 1st proof of ROI
Duhig got 1,100 signups for their mailing list from a video
Massican got $3,000 in sales and 70 list signups from 1 video

Recent shifts that allowed Amanda to excel on TikTok

Understanding TikTok is short form content vs dance videos (not social media)
Time limit increases (15 sec -> 1min (summer 2021); 1 min -> 3 min (Fall 2021)) -> enabled ability to dig in deeper (can technically do 10 min videos)

TikTok vs other platforms

Can’t DM w/ people, need to be following them
Conversations happen in comments
Ability to go live
Ability to reply w/ video in comments (“Duets” - do side by side w/ another’s content, Amanda did one w/ port tongs that has 2M views)
IG reels (only 30 sec - 1 min) don’t have as much educational content, trends usually 3 weeks later than Tiktok
IG feels older, more copycat, behind on trends

Demographics - female leading

Amanda’s - 75% female, 25% male
US, Canada, Australia top regions
Over 21 years old, deep into 30s and beyond, Over 50% of platform is over 30 years old

Amanda’s TikTok journey

Started July 2021 as an experiment
Decanting video got 30k views, but stalled out
Dec 2021 - started posting 2-3x/day, 1 video hit and others started snowballing
Still “wild west” on TikTok for wine
In 1 month went from 250 -> 30k followers (Jan 2022), now 110k followers (Mar 2022)

TikTok best practices

The “hook” is key - 1.5 seconds to catch people’s attention (e.g. - what you do, say, or put on the screen; Amanda puts topic of video on top)
Spend 2 weeks - 1 month to watch and listen
Post multiple times per day (Amanda now does 1/day)
Need quickness in video
Stay within a niche -> helps algorithm find the target audience
Optimal video length - 2 mins for Amanda (was 7-9 sec on TikTok for a while)
Need to react quickly to trends

Restrictions on alcohol (a grey area)

Similar to IG and FB, but enforced differently
No alcohol w/ minors
No excessive consumption
No solicitation of alcohol
Doesn’t drink on videos b/c got a disclaimer flag on one

WineTok creators: winewithdavid, themillennialsomm, jaimeegriffwine, legallywined, lexiswinelist

TikTok for wine brands

Joe Wagner - 30k followers - mostly production videos
Brands should respond in comments
Need a presence so people can find them
Establish relationships with creators first

Social media tips for brands

Don’t recycle content across platforms
Tiktok - looks less polished vs YouTube

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Constantly looking to improve its environmental impact, Jason Haas, Second Generation Proprietor of Tablas Creek Vineyard in Paso Robles, recently released a trial of 3L bag-in-box wines at $95/box. Though this is 15% lower than the normal bottle price, it still represented ~3x the highest boxed wine in the market. However, the potential to lower the total carbon footprint of the wine by 40% led to trialing and a terrific reaction to the 300 box trial, which sold out in 4 hours. Jason explains the rationale, strategy, and process of going bag-in-box and for other alternative packaging.

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Detailed Show Notes:

The rationale for trying bag-in-box

Did a self-assessment of the winery’s carbon footprint - on the Tablas Creek blog
For the average CA winery, >50% of the carbon footprint is from the glass bottle (including transportation), as glass requires high temperatures to mold and has a heavy impact on shipping and transportation
Tablas Creek moved to a lightweight bottle in ~2010, which saves ~10% of CO2 footprint; heavier bottles are ~10% more
3L bag-in-box reduces packaging carbon footprint by ~84% and ~40% of the total carbon footprint
A wine blogger commented on Jason’s Facebook that Tablas Creek is well-positioned to create change w/ bag-in-box
Previously topped out at ~$35 for 3L, or ~$7.50/bottle

Tablas Creek bag-in-box trial

Bottled 100 cases of Patelin de Tablas Rose, ~300 3L boxes
Got ~60k views on a blog post on boxes in 2 days, lots of positive comments
In mid-Feb 2022, released the boxes to the member email list and sold out in 4 hours
Wines are currently under screw cap, meaning they are similar and don’t need adjustments to be in a bag-in-box

Future bag-in-box efforts

May extend to all 3 Patelin de Tablas bottlings (red, white, rose), which sell for $28/bottle retail, and other wines not meant for long aging
Likely will not sell in distribution - an “uphill battle,” with the price point being too high vs. the existing market
Bag-in-box ties to Tablas Creek’s mission - “to have a positive impact on the way grapes are grown, wine is made, and how wine is packaged and sold”

Box pricing

$28/bottle retail would be $112 for 4 bottles (1 box)
Cost is less for packaging, which was passed along to customers
Priced at $95/3L box, thought it was good to be under $100

Bag-in-box bottling & storage process

Bottling boxes was the biggest challenge at a small scale
Rented a semi-automated filler (would cost ~$10-12k to buy)
Very labor-intensive, took 4 hours for 324 boxes
There’s now a mobile bottling (boxing) line with bag-in-box capabilities based in Sonoma, may rent this for future boxings
Not a lot of reliable data on how wine ages in boxes outside of 6-12 months, will be tasting and testing
Bags in the boxes have higher oxygen transfer rates (“OTR”) than glass bottles
Once opened, the boxes stay fresh for at least several weeks

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Combining a passion for wine with a background in marketing to Millennials from Proctor and Gamble, Ben Matthews launched Terratorium Wines. Building a brand for Millennials has led to creating target personas, packaging elements that lead to more transparency, and pricing to create a fine wine entry point. Hear about how Terratorium is creating brand alignment with its Millennial customers.

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Detailed Show Notes:

Millennial purchase drivers

Want straightforward, more “natural,” less manufactured products - concern for clean ingredients for products that are “in you,” “on you,” or “around you”
Want alignment on brand values, it’s more than just economics
Like transparency for the manufacturing process
Not as price-sensitive as people think they are
Want to support brands you’re proud to tell your friends about, which increases the word of mouth velocity, e.g., Tom’s Shoe’s “Buy 1, Give 1”
Need the right price point (there’s a ceiling for Millennials) - ~$25-low $40s for a single vineyard, craft wine; the market entry point for fine wine
Millennials are now 50% of parents, which is influencing buying practices, sustainability becoming more important

Developed personas for their target consumers - “who is my who?”

Came up with fictitious characters - “Jake” and “Meaghan”
Average older millennial professionals
Creates a brand lens for wine style, packaging, varietal selection, etc...

Terratorium varietals

Try to bring in not quite mainstream varieties
Millennials like learning about things

Packaging - P&G says it’s “the 1st moment of truth” - need to capture the eye

Front label

abstract graphic to visualize tasting notes, colors represent flavors that correlate to tasting icons on the back

Back label

Tasting icons on what the tastes of the wine are
Regional / vineyard information (new) - more hooks to remember the region (e.g. - soil types, climate)
QR code for the website - will be more targeted in the future
The Instagram handle on the back label - try to drive more traffic
In the future - will have ingredients, nutritional information on the website

Winemaking for Millennials

They like lower abv, fresher wines vs. heavier, oaky, more savory beverages

Wine Clubs

likely to remain a viable system w/ Millennials, like regular shipments, discounts, and some form of community

Building awareness through marketing

Active on social media - Instagram, Facebook, YouTube are the main channels for the older Millennials
Partnerships with adjacent categories (e.g., nutritionists, health-conscious proponents)
More in-person events in core markets - create more word of mouth presence, can’t replicate the in-person tasting experience
Podcasts - saw some sales from the Inside Winemaking connection

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Taking over from his father, 2nd generation proprietor of Tablas Creek Vineyard, Jason Haas left a career in technology to dig into the soils of Paso Robles. Spearheading the conversion to Biodynamic farming and now the certification of Regenerative Organic farming, Tablas Creek has pioneered not just the Rhone movement in California, but of Regenerative farming, which looks to take into account the farm’s impact on the soil, community, and region. Jason believes that Regenerative farming is the only truly sustainable way to farm. Listen in to Tablas Creek’s progression from organic to biodynamic to regenerative.

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Detailed Show Notes:

Tablas Creek

Pioneer of the California Rhone movement
Based on Paso Robles - because of the calcareous soils, long growing season, and enough rainfall to dry farm
Founded and run by two families
Robert Haas, Founder of importer Vineyard Brands
Perrin Family, owners of Chateau Beaucastel in the Rhone
All Rhone varieties, including rarer varietal wines
Own 270 acres, 125 planted to vines

Regenerative farming - similar to biodynamics, but thinks more about the externalities of agriculture

Has commitments to less use of shared resources (e.g. - water, power)
Has an additional focus on the big picture (e.g. - climate change with a metric to increase the carbon content of the soil)
Biodynamics is process-based whereas regenerative farming is results-based
Requires a series of audits - soil health audit, animal welfare certification (that they are treated humanely), farmworker audit (paying fair wages, increasing their skills -> led to weekly roundtable meetings)
Focus on the positive impact on the soil, community, and region
Does not have cow horns or the cycles of the moon like biodynamics
Regenerative is an alternative to biodynamics that is more focused on science vs mystical processes

Benefits of the various farming practices

Conventional - cheapest in the short term
Organic - in the long run, not more expensive than conventional. Organic certification in wine has been mostly for lower-end wines in the $10-15/bottle
Biodynamics -Initially believed it would increase the lifetime of vines and gain in quality from older vines. Discovered that lots grown biodynamically were the best lots right away in blind tastings.
Regenerative farming - Less about the grapes vs biodynamics, more in externalities

Regenerative farming pilot program

6 Regenerative Organic certified wineries at the moment
Got invited to the pilot w/o knowing what “regenerative” was or meant
Can use the “Regenerative Organic” seal on their wines (vs just for the grapes)

Costs of farming

Biodynamic/regenerative - have more hands-on labor vs organic or conventional farming
Less chemical purchases
Cost on a $/ton basis for farming has not increased significantly vs organic (~$3-5,000/ton)
Has not experienced yield reductions, the yield has been more dependent on water (e.g. - 2-2.5 tons per acre in a dry / frost year vs up to 3.5 tons per acre for a wetter year)
Has been able to avoid significant labor issues by maintaining its own vineyard crew (10 FTEs, started w/ own crew in 1996), paying a living wage and good labor conditions have led to good recruitment and retention of crew workers

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Seemingly overnight, 19 Crimes, a division of Treasury Wine Estates, has become a Top 15 brand in the US and has a global impact. Re-imagining what a wine brand could be, 19 Crimes has had many innovations, but found lasting success with augmented reality and celebrity partnerships with Snoop Dogg and Martha Stewart. Ming Alterman, Brand Director for 19 Crimes, gives us the history, best practices, and keys to success for the brand and AR.

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Detailed Show Notes:

19 Crimes Overview

A Top 15 brand in the US according to Nielsen IRI, ~500k cases sold at $11.50/bottle average
A virtual brand, no winery, no visible winemaker - disrupts what a wine brand can be - “The non-wine drinkers' wine”
Americans often pick up a bottle because of the look and feel - developed the packaging and story to engage the consumer
1st black matte bottle, collectible corks with crimes on them, and augmented reality (AR
Still need a wine that delivers for the price point and consumer first -> the wine quality creates repeat purchase
Average consumer - 35-55 years old, wants to be a part of something and can relate to the story of the 19 Crimes
Snoop Dogg's partnership has brought in 200k new consumers into wine from beer and spirits

Augmented Reality

App has over 5M downloads
Started w/ both AR and virtual reality (VR) to tell the story of the brand
In 2017 - people didn’t want to put on the headset (VR) in-store but were okay downloading the app and AR took off
Created a 3d puppet of the person, animated it, and recorded lines
AR came a few years after the brand launch, was supposed to be a sales tool, but morphed into a consumer thing
Consumer awareness - QR code on bottle to download the app, invested in POS displays and in-store marketing, some screens in aisles
People scanned and download the app while in the aisle
Success factors - instant gratification, people shared it and it went viral, good shareability, great creativity, and simple
Requires ongoing investment in the app - e.g. - built ability to record in-app
Usage goes up during holidays (people like to share it) or the launch of a new SK

Launching AR

Easier now w/ web AR - can just do through camera phone vs needing an app
Still have the Living Wine app
Apple now recognizes QR codes with a camera, making it easier
Getting cheaper, but still ~$80-200k to develop
Ongoing costs - website updates, tech licenses (e.g. - AR engines), if there’s an app (easily 6 figures), creative updates
Need a reason for people to come back and use it again

Marketing 19 Crimes

Got tons of earned media
Paid for Google Playstore/Apple App Store to get app downloads
PR efforts and social media
Ads feature AR as the hook

Success w/ celebrities

Need them to be really passionate and involved
Need marketing dollars to promote it, not just the celebrity deal
ROI - for 19 Crimes, looked at the impact on the entire brand, not just the dedicated SKUs
Compensation models - equity, royalties, up-front fees, annual fees

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Using her background in graphic design and inability to read large blocks of text, Madeline Puckette, Co-Founder and Content Director of Wine Folly, has transformed wine communication using infographics and other writing methods to enable wine discovery for more people. What started as a content marketing strategy for a planned wine club, Wine Folly has become one of the core landing sites for wine globally and an essential resource for wine beginners in their wine journey. Here about the journey, the business, and the future with Global Wine Database.

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Detailed Show Notes:

Madeline’s background
- Grandfather got into wine through mail order and reading
- Dad bought a wine subscription to K&L Wine Merchants when she was 21 (in 2004) at art school, which got her into wine and provided her “Aha!” wine moment - a Cotes du Rhone that didn’t taste like fruit but like black olives
- She was a musician and a graphic designer
- After she lost her job in 2009, she helped out at a wine bar which exposed her to more wine
- Did the Ruinart Challenge competition in San Francisco and got runner up on a Chardonnay blind tasting
- Went on to pass Certified with the Court of Master Sommeliers (“CMS”)
- While in the startup community in Seattle, she wanted to combine web with a wine concept and started Wine Folly
Wine Folly’s founding
- It didn’t want to have a blog
- The initial concept was to have an online wine club with videos exploring the wine regions of the world
- 12/25/2011 - 1st post on how to wrap a bottle of wine for Christmas
- Wine informational content started as a content marketing strategy to get high search engine optimization (“SEO”) but became what people wanted
Wine Folly today
- An online portal for the topic of wine
- 1st infographic - “how to choose wine” - was a joke but went viral and the Facebook account grew by 7,000 in 1 day
  - Printed and sold the infographic as posters - sold 52 in the 1st two days
- Uses an inverted pyramid writing style - articles start with the simple, straightforward answer and then grows with more details at the bottom
- Wine Folly users - the focus is on wine beginners - there are always more people getting into wine
Marketing Wine Folly
- Viral things tend to peak and go down
- SEO “long tail” work - content marketing, posting 3 articles/week for years for free was what built the site
- Tried some paid marketing for products
- Social media - “like a billboard,” metrics are smaller than everything else (<10% of traffic to the website comes from social) but builds awareness
- Key metrics - reach and revenue are primary metrics / OKRs
- Defining reach can be complex - can include duration of visits, looking at a 2nd page, etc.
- ~20M unique visitors/year on the website
- Launching online classes - including a French wine course in March, uses a self-challenge model to force people to learn and figure things out
- Seeing a declining interest in wine - the “wine” search ranking has been declining over the last 5 years
YouTube channel
- Has been growing rapidly recently (~60k followers in Jan 2022)
- Need consistency of content to do well - 1 piece/week would be ideal
- Wine is challenging on YouTube to create a digestible format because wine is just in your glass. It’s all in your head -> success might be more about personality
- Other successful wine channels - Wine King, Bon Appetit w/ Andre Mack
- YouTube is a place to self-learn
Social media strategy
- Need to have content that matches the purpose of the social media channel
- Wine Folly does a lot of analysis on what does well or not
- Consistency is the core strategy
Business model
- Launched a wine club in 2021 in partnership with Wine Access
- “Like a Food52 of wine” - wine accessories (e.g., tools, maps, wine flavor charts, visual learning tools)
- No advertising, but investigating it now, looking at partnership/sponsorship opportunities
- Tools and book section are the most successful, courses coming up fast
Books
- 1st was in 2015, 2nd in 2018
- More a marketing opportunity to get credibility
- Sales primarily field by people on Wine Folly’s email list
- Not great financially
- 2nd book - wants to be the guide to use to pass CMS Certified
- Sold on website packaged with a Wine 101 course to compete w/ Amazon, which sells the book cheaper
Merger with Global Wine Database (2019)
- The quality of the information in the wine industry is bad
- GWD is an initiative to get all wines and wineries to put their product information into the database
- There are free and pro subscriptions
- Have created region guides and trade guides to explore wine regions with the data
- Producers can create tech sheets with the product
- Future applications - API for retailers, recommendation engine by taste
- Synergies with Wine Folly - to provide better data to create better products, Wine Folly adds content structure over the database

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With an outsider's perspective, Jason Wise, director of the SOMM movies and founder of SOMM TV, has been able to find stories in the world of wine that interest a broad audience. In order to control more of the content pipeline and how the shows are distributed, Jason founded SOMM TV. Using "Somm" as more of a curator, SOMM TV has wine at its core and covers food, travel, and other alcohol, making it appealing to a broad (and younger) audience. Learn more about the business of wine films in this episode of XChateau!

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Detailed Show Notes:

Jason's background
- Former bartender, went to film school, started as a filmmaker
- He got into wine because he loves history, there were lots of stories that he could make films about, and his (now) wife's father loves wine, and he wanted to impress him
- He did a travel show and learned about wine
SOMM movie (2012)
- The genesis of the movie
  - Made when he was fresh out of film school (where he didn't focus on documentaries)
  - Met Brian McClintic, who asked him to watch their tasting practice
  - Found the practice similar to a sporting event
  - Met Ian Cauble and found his determination to become a Master Sommelier
- The success of the film
  - The obsessive personalities made the film
  - Builds to an actual event (the MS exam)
  - The wine industry was ready for something like the movie
  - Not a "wine film," a different way of looking at wine
  - Introduced a new group of people who can tell you what to drink (vs. magazines)
  - Documentaries became popular with Netflix
  - Not made by wine people, the outsider perspective made it enjoyable to outsiders
Wine needs storytelling
Other wine films
- SOMM 2 - a" "wine fil"", SOMM 3 - the" "bullshit facto"" of wine, SOMM 4 - more history driven
- Auction 288 (to be released June 2022) - a movie about a bottle of 1874 Perrier-Jouët Champagne, more of a history, business story
Media business model
- Movies usually have a distributor
- Theaters are a big marketing arena for wine
- iTunes - make a % of revenue
- Netflix
  - pays distributor a fixed fee, if put on the 1st page can reach millions of people
  - Often pays based on what it costs to make
  - Can own rights outright or rent the film
- Amazon - get paid 6+ months after it's up and receive a minimal cut of incremental revenue
- YouTube - doesn't make any money on
- Created SommTV to control more steps in the business model - more control of content pipeline, partnerships, place to premiere new films (e.g., SOMM 4)
- Before Covid - events were a big part of the business
Media platforms
- Hulu - Jason's favorite, takes the most significant swings in content
- Stars - has the best movies
- Netflix - very careful, content is very similar to each other; often licenses something then makes their own version if it works (e.g., Uncorked is a similar series to Somm)
Cost of making films
- Big range - SOMM 2 ~$100k vs. ~$850k for another wine film made by someone else
- Documentaries - can be millions, when there's real music, at least $500k
  - Do not pay people usually to be in the film
SommTV business model
- Employees on salary, which is unusual in film
- 90% original content
- It started with originals, now trying to license other content
- Focused on wine, food, and alcohol; food is going to be a big part
- Started the streaming service because it's an underserved audience and wanted to super-serve them
- Content pipeline - would ideally love to have new content every day
- Hundreds of thousands of subscribers (as of Jan 2022) - believes the potential audience is in the millions" "Som" is defined by Jason as someone who curates - wine at the center, but food, travel, etc…surrounding it
- Pricing - $6/month, $50/year
  - Did a series of testing to determine pricing
  - Current entertainment content wars - other services are losing money to add subscribers (except for HBO Max)
  - Lower cost doesn't necessarily mean more subscribers
- Technology - a mix of own developed and 3rd party apps, goal is to bring technology in-house
SommTV subscribers
- Younger, usually 24-37 years old (~70%), middle class
- Screenings/events - more varied audience
- 52% male, 48% female - women growing fast
- Key markets - US largest by far, UK, Brazil, Nordic countries (not allowed in Iran or China)
Sparklers - new cooking and wine pairing show
- It covers various sparkling wine regions with cooking challenges
- It has a "perfect bite" - a meal on one spoon
- Contestants have to judge each other
- No one would have predicted the ending - the final episode aired Feb 8, 2022
Podcasts part of SommTV didn't have a marketing budget, so made podcasts which drawback to SommTV
- Guests feed into each other's shows
- Not expensive to make
- Free, don't have to subscribe

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Having studied what was important to wine consumers working at Oddbins, a British wine retailer, Nicholas Hammeken, Founder and Director of Innovation at Hammeken Cellars, founded a company focused on crafting Spanish wines that match consumer preferences. He develops concepts with unique selling propositions, plays to modern tastes, and tries to be an ambassador of affordable luxury. Nicholas tells us all about how he thinks through creating the concept, developing the product, and bringing the wines to market globally.

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Detailed Show Notes:

Nicholas’ background
- Danish-born, cellar master, worked at Taste of Wine in Denmark
- Worked in the Mosel (Germany), Burgundy, Bordeaux, and Penedes (Cava, Spain)
- Worked at Oddbins in the UK - where he learned about consumer preferences
- Fell in love w/ Spain and moved there when his wife got a job there
Hammeken Cellar Overview
- Spanish wine in the 1990’s - a little rustic, but could taste the tremendous potential
- Motto - “modern Spanish wines…developed through an understanding of consumers needs” -> want to respect the history of the region, but take data to match to consumer preferences
- Based in Valencia
- Winemakers live in different parts of Spain
- Exports 1.5M cases to 30 countries
  - Historically strong in Scandinavia
  - Germany and Holland are big markets, US and Canada are important, while Asia has been consistent with Japan being strong for many years
  - China rising as wine consumption growing (vs. gifting of wine)
- In 2021 - 50% of production are organic wines, sustainability is an important trend for Hammeken
Consumer preferences by market
- Europe - like a more lean style
- US - prefers riper, more bold style
- Often the style preferences match with the profile of local cuisine
- Wines have a base element and then have components to fine-tune the wines for specific markets
Organic trend
- N Europe was the driving force, particularly the monopoly markets, which gave distribution preference for organic wines
- US/Europe now more aligned with regulations on organic wines
- Whole Foods was a pioneer in the US
Brand development process
- E.g., “I’m Your Organic” brand
  - Had nice juice to make an approachable wine made the tannins softer to create a very juicy style of wine
  - Could make it cost $10-12
  - Need to communicate a message to consumers to create a competitive edge -> every bottle (or bag in a box) sold, they will plant a tree
- Leverages Global Data
  - to mine macro and micro consumer trends (e.g., organic product trend)
  - Used to support decision making
- Does other consumer research - “lots of reading” - real all magazines, including grocery store magazines
- Importance of the story -> need to have a purpose of the product, more USPs (unique selling propositions) -> e.g., where does the product come from (i.e., sense of place, which gives traceability), winemaker, etc. -> something apart from a pretty label
- Wants to be an ambassador of affordable luxury, $9.99 or $11.99 wines that taste and feel like $14.99 wines
- Packaging - requires a lot of trial and error to test
  - The more exclusive products tend to look more straightforward and more elegant
  - Scale buying power allows for lower costs for high-end closures, packaging
- E.g. - Mirada Rose from La Mancha
  - Defined specific fruit flavors - berry citrus
  - Want a “Provence” like color
  - Uses extended time on lees
  - It has a unique bottle
  - Uses repeat buying to measure success - Mirada is seeing steady increases year over year in sales
- Wines mostly have a DO/DOC designation - they need to taste like the region, but in a modern way
- Finding new names - “a major headache” - legal names for the US, Europe, and Asia has become a lot more complex than ten years ago
Creating the wine
- The company is asset-light, leverage other people’s facilities
- Go for a more modern, fresh style of wine
- Once they have a clear idea of what they want to do, they search for vineyards
- Try to source from a diverse set of vineyards to reduce nature risk (e.g., hail)
- Old vines are key -> gives a more unique expression, more balanced fruit
- Have their own winemakers, but rent facilities
- Vineyard sourcing a mix of long-term rentals, short term agreements, and spot market purchases at harvest
- Have a contract agronomist to direct grape growing
Go-to-market (“GTM”) Strategy
- Link up with partners, people who want to be first movers on the product
- Often have a dialogue in place before developing new concepts
- Target markets
  - For new concepts - test in smaller markets
  - For clear ideas - go for 3-5 markets to have volume from the beginning
- Keys for product placements
  - Monopoly markets - can lobby for 2-3 years to provoke a tender that you’ve helped define (therefore more likely to wine)
  - 3rd party endorsement is important (e.g., critic ratings)
  - Critic ratings big in US / Canada initially, but rest of the world has followed -> important because some buyers are risk-averse
  - Asia - likes to see success in other markets first
- Marketing & Promotion
  - Social media is important
  - Need to invest for products on the shelves
  - More important channels - product placement (the right place at the right price point), then a mix of endorsement with points and price proposition (e.g., discounts) can drive more significant sales
  - E.g., LCBO (largest buyer in the world) - showed them a gap in their portfolio (mix of packaging, style, and price point) and was willing to invest in promotions to be successful
- Wine critic influence
  - American media (e.g., Wine Enthusiast, Robert Parker, Wine Spectator, James Suckling) strong in US / Canada, but also have a global influence
  - Decanter - more important outside the US
  - Jancis Robinson - w/ 20 point score, need $25+ bottles for consumers to understand what this means
Brand lifecycle
- Most brands are regional stars, a few work worldwide
- Lifecycle is usually 3-5 years
- Product segments get overcrowded and make the brand lose market share
- Signal of downtrend - when the effectiveness of promotion falls
Corporate Social Responsibility
- Try to allow consumers to make an active choice, e.g., I’m Your Organic and planting a tree
- Uses Goodwings to offset the carbon footprint of corporate travel
- Wants to do a detailed mapping of CO2 footprint of product production and use this as a tool to educate wine buyers

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An ongoing trend and a topic that crisscrossed many of our interviews on XChateau, the natural wine movement got a formal designation in March of 2020. It specifies a set of vineyard and winery practices to qualify for the designation. We discuss the potential challenges of implementing the designation and the potential impacts on producers, retailers, and consumers.

This episode originally aired in May of 2020. To access the rest of our library, become a Patreon supporter, as we’ll soon be making most back episodes only available to our Patreon supporters.

Detailed Show Notes:

New definition and denomination for natural Wine in France - Vin Methode Nature (March 2020)
Requirements: organically farmed, hand-harvested, indigenous yeast, no inputs added, no manipulations to the wine (e.g., - thermovinification, reverse osmosis, flash pasteurization, cross-flow filtration)
Two levels of designation based on SO2 additions - 1 with no SO2 added, 1 with up to 30 mg/L of SO2 added
Before this, there was no formal definition for “natural wine” people often confused or used the term for organic and biodynamic farming or with using minimal intervention
Natural wine trend
- Rise of natural wine bars, restaurants lists focused on natural wines, and natural wine stores/sections of retail stores
- Entire natural wine fairs - e.g. - e.g. - RAW WINE
- Specific books - e.g., Natural Wine by Isabelle Legeron MW
Challenges of the natural wine designation
- It may be difficult to make adjustments in farming or in the winery when issues occur, which may be increasing with climate change
- Hand harvesting may be challenging and even lower quality in regions with labor shortages (e.g., Australia, New Zealand)
- Champagne - does not use native yeast for secondary fermentation in bottle and may not qualify
- Burgundy - often doesn’t get organic certifications in vineyards due to weather challenges but strive for “lutte raisonnée” (the reasoned struggle)to reduce chemical inputs in the vineyard
- US importers - to be labeled as “organic wine” in the US requires no added sulfur, which applies to only 1 of the 2 designations. Wines without sulfur additions may have stability issues when they shipped to the US
Natural wine retailers - consumers may find the designation confusing as some of their wines will be labeled “natural wine,” but others will not, requiring detailed knowledge of the winegrowing practices of all the wines on the shelf
Consumer perceptions
- Product quality is critical, especially at the higher end
- Studies have shown people will be ~$3/bottle more for organic wine, which is a ~30% increase on ~$8/bottle average price point
- Consumers assume fine wines are a natural product and may find the labeling confusing
- Vegans - egg whites and isinglass (a type of fish bladder) are sometimes used as processing aids for wines (a process called fining) but are not ingredients - may find the designation useful
- Kosher WineWine - can not be labeled natural as flash pasteurization is not allowed

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Wondering why there was only beer and spirits but no wine at Crossfit events and races, Mark Warren and Tom Beaton, Founders of FitVine, decided to start their own brand. With a goal of making wine more transparent and approachable, FitVine aims to “fit into your lifestyle.” At the $15-20/bottle price point, FitVine is bringing more Gen X and Millennials into the wine category with wine that tastes good and takes away the stuffy image of the wine industry.

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Detailed Show Notes:

Mark and Tom’s background
- Met ~20 years ago, both in the tech industry and entrepreneurs
- They have always been into wine
- Both former athletes got into Crossfit 2 decades ago at events. They saw spirits and beer but no wine and asked, “why isn’t wine part of an active lifestyle?”
FitVine’s founding
- At $15/bottle - many wines are overprocessed
- Target a “healthy” lifestyle, and the word “fit” means how does wine fit into your lifestyle?
- Want to have a positive impact on people’s lives - relieve stress
Market segment
- Initially thought they were targeting the athletes, but quickly learned it was the significant others at the races & events, the “aspirational group” that wanted to make better choices that were FitVine’s customers
  - Gen X “yoga mom/dad,” Millennials M/F both increasing
  - DTC business has customers from early ’20s to late ’70s
  - The segment is ~85-100M Americans
- FitVine vs. “Clean Wine” - try to be careful and not knock other wines
- Focused on 90% of the wine market and what people are drinking with an average ~$15/bottle price point
- Trying to establish a “go-to” brand people can trust and remove confusion for people without wine knowledge
Marketing
- Targeting the average consumer who’s not wine knowledgeable and intimidated by wine
- Trying to be more transparent and make it easier for the consumer
  - Have nutritional breakdown for all wines
  - Publishes calories, carbohydrates, sugar, alcohol
  - TTB stopped their ability to add more nutritional information (e.g., resveratrol, etc.) because it might show it as a healthy product
  - Does full lab tasting on all wines and have done competitor lab testing as well - sometimes show summary statistics (e.g., 90% less sugar than the Top 10 wines on the market)
- They took tasting notes away not to confuse the average consumer
- Start with the wine first, then discuss the positive attributes of the wines
- Wine often marketed as too “stuffy,” makes it intimidating
  - Want to change the approach, a higher level of YellowTail - which was easy and popular in the $5-8/bottle category
  - At $15-20, more of an investment, wine needs to be good
  - Primary differentiation is transparency - there are no more faces to the big brands/wine companies, the last one was Jess Jackson
  - Want to be very approachable - no beige chateau or river on the label
Products
- Low in sugar but “full” alcohol
- People want the alcohol in wine
- Alcohol also impacts the taste of wine - de-alc’d wine often tastes “thin”
- Low in tannins and histamines
  - Tannins can be added, but none for FitVine
  - High tannins are not suitable for non-seasoned wine drinkers looking for approachable wine
- No flavor additives (e.g., Mega Purple) or other additives
- “Triple Filtering” of wine - uses crossflow filtration that passes through 3 times (standard crossflow process)
- Wines are not bulk wines, controlled from grape to bottle
- Mostly Lodi fruit, sustainably raised with no pesticides
Production
- 2021 - ~425k cases
- 2022 - ~600k cases
Go-to-market strategy
- Started DTC only
- Started with social media
- Went anywhere, people would let them pour wine (e.g., yoga studios, gyms, etc.)
  - Gave out samples and postcards to drive to the website
  - 2021 - still did >5,000 events
- Went consumer first vs. pushing through distributors - Whole Foods called in 2016 - brought into retail in 2017 (started w/ 4-5 stores, then spread across the US)
- 2022 - will be in 25,000 locations in the US, ~35,000 in 2023
- Now focused on grocery stores and delivery (e.g., Instacart, Drizly, GoPuff)
- Strong repeat buying
- DTC offers limited-run varietals, which allows the testing of new SKUs before distribution
- DTC has stayed level (now <10% of business), wholesale has seen significant growth
- 2017 - had a contract with the Boston Red Sox, created single-serve 187ml glass
  - Did well, but with a multi-layered business model, was not the best use of marketing investment
Wine industry trends to watch
- The Low or No alcohol wine category is challenging
- Need a different approach to educate consumers
  - Give people more transparency around what’s in the bottle
  - Give people more information in small, easy to understand chunks
- Growth of canned wine - believes due to being more approachable

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Ever been curious about the claims people make about “clean wines”? In the same camp as “natural wines” and “better for you wines,” clean wines have no definition and often deploy misleading marketing to get you to buy their wines. They take advantage of the trend, particularly with Millenials, around a healthy lifestyle and spread misinformation in their marketing, according to sommelier and wine educator Erik Segelbaum. Explore the rationale behind the clean wine trend and how to read into their marketing messages on this episode of XChateau!

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Detailed Show Notes:

Erik’s background
- Was a chef in fine dining at the Park Hyatt Philadelphia
- As he grew into wine, he stopped drinking for alcohol and more for flavor
- He became a sommelier because it was more profitable than being a chef
SOMLYAY (Erik’s company)
- Does private events, education (including with the Smithsonian), a wine writer, private cellar consulting, and hospitality/wine list consulting
- Has done >300 private events in the past year, primarily virtual
Wrote an article called “Snake Oil for Sale: The Dirty Business of Clean Wine” (pg16) for the Sept / Oct 2021 issue of The Tasting Panel magazine
- The impetus for the article - Erik always gets the same questions during consumer events around sulfites, natural/clean/healthy/“better for you” wines
- He gets lots of ads using manipulative advertising around the wines
Definition of Clean Wine
- It’s an invented word. There is no definition, no standards - it doesn’t actually mean anything
- Implies other wines are “unclean”
Drivers of the clean wine trend
- Millennials have taken over as the dominant wine buying cohort. They like “healthy,” and the trend is playing to their preferences
- Celebrity endorsements backing trend (e.g., Cameron Diaz’s Avaline)
Clean wine claims are not false but spreading misinformation and are “lying by omission”
- E.g., all wines are gluten-free
- Vegan - sometimes animal products (e.g., egg whites) are used in fining but not really put into wine
- Organic - does not mean any chemicals, just no synthetic chemicals (e.g., sulfites are organic and a good thing - required to make wine otherwise, nature turns grape juice into vinegar)
- Additives - there can be bad ones (e.g., Velcorin, which is hazardous in large quantities, and Mega Purple, which adds color and sweetness)
Need to distinguish between “industrially produced wines” and “commercially produced”
- Industrial wines are mainly on the bottom shelf of retail and are highly manipulated wines (e.g., use lots of additives)
- Commercially produced can be well-produced wines, even at a commercial scale
Clean wine “obscures transparency”
- They often manipulate where the wines are produced (e.g., don’t mention where the grapes are grown, only that they are produced and bottled in a specific place)
- Targets naive consumers
- An excellent example of transparency - Ridge Vineyards - has ingredient labeling and all relevant details on the label

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Detailed Show Notes:

Curtis’ background
- MBA at UC Davis in Wine Marketing and Accounting
- Marketing at Trinchero Family Estates
- Worked in wine retail at a small place
- Moved to IRI in category management in wine and spirits insights
- Was Raley’s wine buyer for 8 years
Grocery as part of the wine market
- Multi-outlet wine market ~$12-13B / year
- Total wine market ~$60-70B / year (multi-outlet ~20% of the total market)
Albertson’s Companies’ wine overview
- ~25 different grocery brands, ~2,000 stores
- Wine is a key element of business - it drives sales and customer loyalty; some customers come to stores because of the wine selection
- Some stores have up to 3,000 wine SKUs
- Stores with more premium selections are correlated with location (high socio-economic demographics) vs. by grocery store brand
- Focus is more on the “premium” price segment ($9+ based on IRI)
- Top brands - Barefoot, Kendall Jackson, up-and-coming brands - Butter, Josh, but wine is very diversified. Big brands are still a small part of the market
- Premiumization helping imports, including New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc
Wine buying trends
- Consumers are called to authenticity - they want to know what’s in their wine, the appellation, sustainability, and organic
- Convenience - cans, seltzer, ready to drink
- Premiumization - $10-20/bottle, $30-50/bottle, up to $100/bottle (e.g., high-end Bordeaux, Napa Cabernet) ranges all doing well, some categories accelerating with potential out-of-stocks
- Covid trends - return to cooking, consumers go to Albertson’s as a one-stop-shop
- With restaurants reopening, a little bit of regression in sales, but still robust as cooking at home has been sticky
Customer demographics (for wine)
- Gen X / Baby Boomers - still buying a lot (more in bulk and volume), but less than before
- Millennials are the new customers - buying more, less loyal to wine vs. other drinks, and have less expendable income; their preferences are different from Gen X and Baby Boomers
- To meet the changing demographics, Curtis looks forward 3-5 years to develop his shelf set/selections of wine
- Considerable diversity of reasons people buy wine - occasion based purchasing (e.g., going to a party)
- Many people exploring and learning about wine (proof point - the massive increase in people taking WSET classes, including lots of consumers, not just professionals)
Promotions / discounting
- Limited brand loyalty in wine, customers often default to price
- Given that, promotions are pretty important
- We need to work between price and product to optimize sales and not over-rely on price
Wine selection
- What does it mean to customers? Each wine must have a purpose vs. the other ~1,500 SKUs on the shelf
  - This could be style, story, or location/appellation
  - Want to remove redundancy on the shelf
- Tagline - ‘locally great, nationally strong’; try to give local stores more voice (e.g., Portland stores have more Willamette Valley Pinot Noirs)
- Flagship Stores (e.g., Andronico’s, Pavilions) - higher-end, eclectic offerings
- Steps to sell into Alberston’s - have the 4 P’s put together - distribution network, pricing, product, and where you fit on the shelf
  - Generally need to place wine 4-6 months in advance
  - It requires a UPC code on the bottle
Private Label / “Own Brand” wines
- The goal is to provide the best price to value for customers
- The intent is to drive loyalty
- Not a dominant part of the business
- Trying to create wines that are a draw and get good scores
- Selection is built around education, desire to learn about wine category through own brands
- Suppliers have connections to maintain supply, which can help Own Brands overcome supply challenges (e.g., 2020 Napa, 2021 New Zealand)
Digital Adoption
- Virtual tastings - have done well, 1,000s of people sign up, people buy the wines beforehand or buy wines later and watch the tasting on YouTube
  - Appeals to groups of customers who don’t get to visit wine country
  - Will continue post-Covid
  - Do education tastings 1x/month
- Keys to engagement - consumers have lots of questions
  - The team engages with customers via chat
  - Keep it educational - need a balance of explaining concepts but keep it understandable
- Consumers using their phones more for education want to reduce the complexity of wine
- Wine e-commerce - working on expanding this, challenging due to state regulations
  - Expanding drive up and go (“DOAG”)
  - Delivery (e.g. - Instacart) growing
  - Still a small portion of sales
- Core elements of success for the grocery channel
  - The selection keeps people in the store
  - Relating the wine to the food in the store (food - wine pairing)
  - E-commerce
  - Convenience (e.g., ready to drinks)

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With a vision to democratize wine for every wine drinker in the US, Underground Cellar’s founder and CEO Jeffrey Shaw and COO Jeff Hardy are focused on building a unique and disruptive platform for buying wine. Leveraging gamification principles, Underground Cellar gives you upgrades to the wines you buy, giving customers access to more expensive and rare wines. This has expanded into free wine storage in their Cloud Cellar, which they hope to build more community and a trading platform around. Dig into how it got started, the value proposition for wineries, and where they are going in this episode of XChateau! Underground Cellar offers listeners a discount code for $100 off your first purchase of $150 or more with promo code: XChateau at undergroundcellar.com.

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Detailed Show Notes:

Jeffrey Shaw’s background
- Fell in love with wine in college, wine tasting, etc.
- Had a small exit with his first company and wanted to do something in wine
- Started 6 companies simultaneously (based on a statistic that 5 out of 6 companies fail in the 1st year) to find 1 to focus on, dropped the rest after 90 days except for Underground Cellar
- The goal is to “democratize” the wine experience and convert wine drinkers to wine collectors for life
Jeff Hardy’s background
- Tech background, worked at Google and Yahoo!, building smaller startups focused on small and medium-sized businesses
Underground Cellar’s model
- Curate wines into collections (e.g., Napa Valley Cabernet)
- People don’t buy specific bottles, but into a collection with different price point wines
- 50% or more of the bottles you buy are upgraded to more expensive bottles
- Collections can include rare wines (e.g., a Heidi Barrett signed bottle of Screaming Eagle)
- Cloud Cellar - everyone can store up to 500 bottles for free
- Upgrade determination
  - an algorithm helps determine the number of upgrades
  - Focus on lifetime value received as a customer
Goal to “democratize” wine
- Three elements of wine that can be democratized - knowledge, money, and relationships/access
- Underground Cellar tries to educate in easy to understand, more approachable ways
- Upgrading allows customers to experience higher levels of wine
- Ability to source some scarce, valuable, and hard to find wines enables access to these wines
Target market = everyone
- Wine aficionados - enticed by the rare wines available (e.g., the signed bottle of Screaming Eagle)
- New wine drinkers - want great value, like the process of being upgraded
- Wine lovers building collections - want variety for their collections, which is inherent in the collections
Supplier benefits
- Wines are never discounted
- Underground Cellar can buy small lots of wine
- Can buy less popular varietals, etc.
- Promotes the brand and story on social media (~12k followers on Instagram) and email (~250,000 email subscribers) => wineries have said that foot traffic and sales spike after being featured
Cloud Cellar
- Get unlimited duration storage for 500 bottles for free
- Let’s people buy wine when they usually couldn’t due to weather/shipping constraints or for space/storage constraints
- 85% of customers use Cloud Cellar, most storing ~1 case - most customers use it to buy wine at any time
- Future: people can start to trade with one another on the platform
Marketing channels
- Use social media, direct mail, radio
- 1 channel has been direct referrals - people like to share their upgrade stories
  - Offers a “Give $50, get $50” referral program
  - Future: the potential to add wine as a reward in Cloud Cellar, similar to Robinhood referrals where you get one share of stock
- Barbara Corcoran is an investor
  - Initially approached Mark Cuban via email, but he doesn’t invest in alcohol
  - Approached Barbara afterward to prove Mark Cuban wrong
Technology platform
- Built from scratch in-house
- The new upgrade model was not supported by other platforms
- Needed to de-couple wine buying from wine-shipping
- 60 employees currently, including data scientists and business insights analysts
Future for Underground Cellar
- With 84M people in the US as wine drinkers, lots of room to grow
- Want to get the experience out there to more people
- The goal is to make the experience fun and exciting
- Want to build community within Underground Cellar and turn people into collectors
Promo Code for listeners:
- $100 off your 1st purchase of $150 or more
- Promo Code: XChateau
- Go to www.undergroundcellar.com

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Sommelier turned wine consultant turned online wine retailer. Thatcher Baker-Briggs, Founder of Thatcher’s Wine Consulting, has continued to evolve and expand his presence, helping clients drink better and navigate some of the intricacies of Burgundy and other fine and geeky wines. He tells us about his journey, how email responsiveness is a competitive advantage, and how he believes some of the distribution allocations of top European wineries need to adapt to where the demand is. An engaging and insightful episode of XChateau!

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Detailed Show Notes:

Thatcher’s background
- He started cooking at 10, worked in restaurants, was in the kitchen for ten years
- Pursued sommelier route, spent time in Japan, came back to SF to work w/ Saison Hospitality
- Helped collectors to manage the world of Burgundy and expanded from there
- Launched a small, online boutique website pre-Covid
- Has both an importer and retailer license (possible in California)
- Import focus is on 1st and 2nd generation winemakers, often younger (in their 20s and 30s)
Wine Consulting
- It started when a regular guest at the restaurant asked for personal wine consulting
- He had to rely on other retailers, which was challenging for some short turnaround needs, and built a small inventory of products, which got put online for the retail arm
- Clients are on an annual retainer basis - annual necessary to set goals for the cellar and wine education
- Initial clients came from personal relationships
- New clients are mostly through existing client referral
- You don’t need a lot of clients to be successful and cap the client base so that each client can get enough attention
- He doesn’t source exclusively from TWC retail but from a variety of sources
- Challenges with wine consulting business - dealing with an old school wine world, inventory management, logistics of getting wine, and communicating “no” to collectors can be challenging
Wine Retail
- Differentiation - wines highly curated by the team
- Ability to source wines due to decades of experience and relationships with importers and retailers from sommelier experiences
- Sourcing rare wine is complex, as often wines can’t be fully authenticated - TWC usually takes a very conservative approach, e.g., buys DRC only with a Wilson Daniels back label and from an original buyer
Essential to work with importers who are investing in building wine brands
- General importer margin - cost converted to local currency, 1.5x the cost plus a couple dollars/bottle for transportation
- Some importers take too high margins on hard to find wines, which leads TWC to need to source directly from Europe
- TWC doesn’t undercut the market not to upset other wine merchants
European wine distribution is often flawed and challenging, creating market dislocations
- E.g., Raveneau - has low ex-domaine pricing, the wine immediately sells out, the family makes a great living, and doesn’t require work, but may have more wine in Switzerland than in the US where it sells for multiples higher
- Wineries often are small businesses without a lot of people working there
- Nicolas Faure example - sells so cheaply ex-domaine that people buy everything upon release, primarily other retailers buying to resell for much higher levels
Technology
- Has a team of developers
- Uses Zoho (CRM) and Shopify (E-commerce)
- Custom-built integration between Shopify and Zoho
- The aim is to make the website faster, more efficient, have correct pricing, amongst other space
- He believes there is a lack of core technology in the wine space, currently dominated by Wine-Searcher and CellarTracker
Wine Pricing
- Believes Burgundy is a bubble, but it can’t burst due to lack of supply (particularly with short 2019, 2020, and 2021 vintages)
- Prices are so high they are pricing out drinkers
Links to Thatcher
- Instagram
- Thatcher’s Wine Consulting

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A year with big expectations. The re-opening of economies around the world with Covid vaccines in distributions instead led to fits and starts with the Delta and Omicron variants. Wine pricing and costs went through gyrations with the tariffs between the EU and US imposed and then lifted and supply chain disruptions creating both cost and availability issues. And clean and natural wines continued to become a broader topic amongst wine consumers and the trade who struggle with their definitions and impact. XChateau assembled a panel across the wine value chain (Producer - Diana Snowden Seysses of Snowden Vineyard and Domaine Dujac; Importer - Xavier Barlier of MMD; Distributor - Michael Papaleo of Banville Wine Merchants; Retailer - Kyle Meyer of The Wine Exchange; and Lisa Perrotti-Brown MW of The Wine Advocate) to discuss these issues and answer audience questions live on Clubhouse. A wide-ranging and captivating conversation!

Also, people have asked us how they can support the show. So, we recently launched on Patreon, where your contributions will help keep the wine business content flowing!

Detailed Show Notes:

Panelists:
- Producer perspective - Diana Snowden Seysses, winemaker at Snowden Vineyards in Napa & Domaine Dujac in Burgundy
- Importer perspective, Xavier Barlier, SVP of Marketing & Communications for Maison Marques & Domaines USA, the importation arm of Champagne Louis Roederer and related companies
- Distributor perspective - Michael Papaleo, VP of Sales at Banville Wine Merchants, an importer and distributor focused on the New York, New Jersey, and Mid-Atlantic region
- Retailer perspective - Kyle Meyer, Managing Partner of The Wine Exchange, a leader wine retailer in Orange County, California
- Wine Critic / Reviewer perspective - Lisa Perrotti-Brown MW, Editor-in-Chief of Robert Parker’s The Wine Advocate for the last 13 years
Topic: Re-opening from Covid
- Diana - producers in Napa and France weren’t required to close. Their biggest concern was keeping employees safe
- Mike - learned how to conduct non-in-person sales (online and on the phone) by creating compelling content and using humor to find ways to engage accounts
  - Luxury wines did well - the average case price pre-pandemic was $136/case; increased by $30/case
  - On-premise recovered, but not all the way - 2019 - 55% on-premise, 2020 - 27% on-premise, 2021 - 44% on-premise
  - Collectors who were drinking through their wines started re-filling their cellars
  - Banville Wine Merchants was able to expand through the crisis (headcount went from 12 salespeople in 2020 to 16 in 2021, with 21 expected in 2022)
- Kyle - 2020 Q2/3 - online orders went up dramatically - people bought everything
  - 2020 Q4 - needed more inventory, supply chain issues created lack of access that persisted into 2021
  - A lot of people are now comfortable buying wine online, do to a big pick up business
  - 75% of sales online pre-Covid, now 85-90%
  - 2021 felt more normal, like 2018 (2019 had issues w/ tariffs, etc.)
- Xavier - MMD’s luxury portfolio was positioned mainly towards on-premise
  - Pivoted to off-premise (e.g., high-end Safeway stores in Los Angeles)
  - Champagne shortages in 2021 - Roederer is sold out, pricing of Champagne is higher than it was before, bubbly is more popular than ever
- Lisa - The Wine Advocate piggybacked on the success of online wine sales -> web views were up 10x vs. pre-Covid, subscriptions showed strong growth, but not as much as web views
  - Events had to be canceled in 2020, tastings re-factored, including re-packaging wines into little bottles for tastings
  - Pulled off some events (e.g., Kings of Rhone, Bordeaux 2010)
  - End of 2021 - lots of Zoom fatigue, people want in-person events, but push for smaller events (e.g., masterclasses, dinners) to avoid large groups
  - Hope to keep some virtual events in the future w/ hybrid elements
- Xavier - used to have to travel a lot before, pivoting to virtual staff training in the B2B context in 2021 was more efficient and convenient
Topic: Inflation / Wine Pricing
- Kyle - some prices have gone up, but more steady than expected
  - CA prices are going up because of the light 2020 vintage (fires)
  - Bordeaux 2020 releases prices much higher
  - Burgundy - pretty steady pricing with slight increases
  - Germany - top producers are increasing prices as they were underpriced before
- Xavier - w/ tariffs and increased shipping costs, MMD has tried to absorb the impact with their partners - sharing ⅓ producer/supplier, ⅓ importer/MMD, and ⅓ distributor
- Mike - bought long on some products pre-tariffs, which helped through the first half of 2021
  - Did reduce some margins and tried not to pass on increased costs to customers
  - Some allocated Burgundy had to pass on cost increases
- Lisa - people looked more at domestic wines than usual, specifically 2018 and 2019 Napa wines, primarily because of 2020 fires and short vintage
  - Bordeaux 2020 is a lot higher pricing than 2019, even with a less consistent vintage
- Diana - had supply chain issues pre-Covid, including a glass shortage (as only river sand can be used, not desert sand)
  - Have learned to order early to deal w/ shortages (e.g., glass, labels, capsules)
  - Facing labor shortages globally
  - Wineries have absorbed increased costs of glass and corks
Topic: Clean & Natural Wines
- Lisa - there is no definition of clean wine. It’s just a marketing fabrication
  - Natural wine is a misleading term as well. It means different things to different people
- Kyle - no one has asked for clean wine yet
  - Customer curiosity around natural wine, but people believe they are faulty wines (e.g., mercaptans, Brettanomyces)
  - Wine merchants need to educate consumers around these topics
- Xavier - positive part of this trend is that it creates a conversation around wine
- Diana - need to educate consumers around sustainability. It’s positive that people are worried about the climate and sustainability. If there’s no definition of the term, it becomes greenwashing
Audience Questions:
- Matthew - how do you best educate, communicate organic sources, and implement sustainable practices without greenwashing?
  - Lisa - be very honest about what you’re doing
  - Kyle - make them “a” point vs. “the” point, the wine should be “the” point, make the best wine you can
- Ziad - how is the wine sector coping with climate change?
  - Lisa - need to live w/ extreme events (e.g., wildfires, water shortages) more frequently, all over the world
- Xavier - Piemonte & Champagne have benefitted from climate change, and some have adapted winemaking; e.g., Louis Roederer has evolved their Brut Premier multi-vintage wine to “Collection 242,” a new multi-vintage wine that will have a unique number and release each year as the wine is now based around a single vintage
- Diana - there are two conversations - one on adaptation and one on decelerating climate change through GHG emission reductions
  - Adaptation - France has to deal with frost issues, especially in Burgundy, Napa has drought and heat

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An early mover focusing on fine wine, Bordeaux and California futures, and becoming a dual importer/retailer, Addy Bassin’s MacArthur Beverages has become a wine institution in Washington DC. Phil Bernstein, General Manager of the brick & mortar wine retail store and importer, tells us about how he thinks about wine pricing, direct importing wines, the changes in consumer buying patterns, and more as we continue to delve into the future of wine retail.

Detailed Show Notes:

Phil’s background
- He grew up in Long Island, played Trumpet, and pursued a career as a professional trumpet player
- He ended up begging for a part-time job at a retail shop in Ann Arbor, MI, and got his start in wine
- Saw a job at Calvert Woodley in DC on winejobs.com and moved to DC
- He moved to Macarthur Beverages so he could become a wine buyer and became GM in April 2018
Macarthur Beverages history
- An institution in DC, in the Palisades suburbs
- Founded in 1957 by Addy Bassin and his wife, Ruth
- One of the 1st to offer Bordeaux En Primeur
- He was notable for bidding on one of the Jefferson wine bottles
- They had a focus on fine wine from an early stage
- Both a national shop (because of fine wine focus) and a neighborhood store
- Pre-pandemic - 50% online / 50% in-store; today - 70% online, 30% in-store
  - Used to have tastings every Sat in-store to drive foot traffic
  - People now do curbside pick up after ordering online
  - Does a lot of DC area delivery (can only legally deliver in DC, not nearby suburbs in MD or VA)
Physical store for wine retail - “nothing beats the human interaction”
Pricing for wine retail - “price is everything”
- Believes that price often trumps customer loyalty
- Looks at wine-searcher.com when pricing wine, having the best price on wine-searcher meaningfully drives sales
- Used to do a standard markup with a case discount, but believes now having the best price upfront is key
“Reliability” for MacArthurs is good customer service
- Take care of the wine (temp control, only ship when weather is good)
- Never makes vintage substitutions
- Always makes good on promises, even if they end up losing money on the sale
Both an importer and a retailer
- Only possibly in DC and CA in the US
- Can buy Bordeaux direct from negociants
- Have access to more fine wine from overseas
- Can cut out the middle man - improving profitability and reducing the price to the customer
- Finding their wines to direct import - have exclusivity, mostly locally
- Imports 6-7 full 50ft containers a year
- Not allowed to sell to other distributors or retailers
- ~60% of business from wholesalers, ~40% imported
- Believes more importers will sell direct over time
Bordeaux Futures/En Primeur
- The value of it can vary a lot by campaign
- The only way for it to work is for wines expected to either be sold out or at higher prices when the wines are released for customers to tie up their money
- In most years, En Primeur only works for the top 50-75 wines, which doesn’t make sense for most Petit Chateau
- 2019 campaign - Bordelais knew people couldn’t taste during En Primeur due to Covid, Pontet Canet and Angelus came out early with low prices and set the tone - lots of interest and buying
- 2020 campaign - “somewhat of a dud,” Bordelais took prices back up to between 2018 and 2019 levels
California Futures
- Starting to go away from this model
- In the early 1980s (pre-internet), set up barrel tasting of CA wine producers, people could taste the wines and order futures at a discount
- E.g., Randy Dunn, Ridge, Shafer were some producers
- Robert Parker came and did a private tasting after the event
- It has since been taken over by the internet, mailing lists, and wines have wider distribution
- Now more of a social event, less about selling wine
Customer demographics
- Largest revenue from males 45-54
- Growing population according to Google Analytics - females 35-44, more younger buyers tend to be female
- Buying habits changing
  - The old model - buy by the case (based on points and price)
  - The new model (as wine prices have gone up and selection has increased) - lots of 1-2 bottle buying, trying things from all over the place
  - Points are less important
  - Restaurants are a way for consumers to explore new types of wine
  - Bourbon is a very hot category
Communications
- Email is still the #1 way to sell wine
- Social media - doing more, can highlight boutique items, good for promoting local events (tastings, wine dinners)
- YouTube - did some video tastings for customers - got excellent feedback
- Working with a digital marketing company

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As the largest wine e-commerce site globally, Wine.com has been a leader in leveraging technology to sell wine. Addie Wallace, Director of Brand Marketing, gives us insight into how wine.com leverages the marketing funnel to drive awareness and conversion, has built a differentiated offering online, and is pushing the boundaries of customization with their new personalized wine club Picked. There’s a lot to learn about the future of retail in this episode of XChateau!

Detailed Show Notes:

Addie’s background
- She started her career in finance
- In business school, led the Wine & Cuisine Society and created a wine recommendation app
- Completed her WSET Level 3
- Pitched Wine.com an idea to have a personalized wine club, which she launched
- Manages brand, customer insights, and subscription businesses for Wine.com
Wine.com’s history
- It started as evineyard.com in 1998
- Acquired wine.com URL and brand in 2001 when original wine.com went bankrupt
- Key milestones
  - The most extensive assortment of wine in the world, over 17,000 wines vs. ~2-3,000 in a typical wine store
  - Live chat functionality w/ sommeliers (started 6-7 years ago, one of the first to use the functionality) - replaces people in aisles helping you in a wine store
  - Building out physical presence - serves 42 states and DC, can reach 80% of customers in 2 days
  - Working on personalization
  - $355M in revenue in Fiscal Year 2021
E-commerce trends
- Believes e-comm growth will continue, but not at the same pace in the pandemic
- Pandemic showed people they could shop for wine online (built awareness)
- 2016 study - showed e-comm only ~3% of alcohol shopping
Wine.com core differentiators
- Variety / selection - leads to continual discovery
- Live chat - people are not commissioned, only there to help you find the best wines
- Convenience - including StewardShip for free delivery
- Personalization - with Picked, the personalized wine club, and building more personalization into the website
Marketing channels
- Uses different channels for different parts of the marketing funnel
  - Top - get people to know the brand
  - Middle - get people familiar with how the brand is differentiated
  - Bottom - use promotions to get people to convert
- Wine.com does a lot of digital advertising - social media, affiliate marketing, search, Google shopping
- Each channel is effective for different customer needs
- E.g., - Google Shopping - good for when customers are looking for something specific
- Podcasts - for educating people that they can buy wine online and get them to shop at wine.com
- Search/Google Shopping - has the largest # of eyeballs
- High ROI - direct mail, the non-digital marketing Wine.com does
- Discounting / coupons - help with getting customers to convert, promotions need to be structured to attract the right audience
- Social media - has been challenging, changing regulatory landscape, privacy restrictions, and constantly changing algorithm, as well as lots of competitors using it makes it hard to be winning at it and need to evolve continually
- Some marketing channels are hard to measure results - e.g., - print media (can use QR codes or promo codes to help track)
- New channels - spending more time on podcasts, new social platforms (e.g.,- Snap, TikTok) don’t currently allow alcohol ads
StewardShip Program
- It started as a free shipping program, for an annual fee (currently $59/year)
- It gets consumers to shop more frequently
- Becoming more comprehensive, like Amazon Prime, more perks to feed the wine lifestyle
  - e.g., - free tickets to events, both in-person and virtual (gave away 100 free tickets to James Suckling tasting events, 1:1 virtual tasting with the Gaja family)
  - Special promotions and early access to some wines
- ~60% of revenue is from members
- Drives high retention rate for members
- The annual fee pays for itself if you buy 2 cases/year
  - ~$40/case, ~$30/6 bottles to ship normally
Picked - personalized wine club
- Launched in 2020
- Tell them wine preferences, get matched with a personal sommelier
- Select 6 wines every 1-3 months
- No two customers get the same thing
- Leverage tech to make sommelier selections more manageable and more diverse, but lots of human judgement
- The sommelier writes a personal note for the wines
- One sommelier could theoretically support thousands of Picked customers
- Club differentiation
  - Personal element
  - Selection - a lot of new discoveries
  - Only sell “real” wines, no private labels
  - Level of control/customization - price points, frequency, feedback, amount of red vs. white
- Some overlap w/ StewardShip but primarily targets different segments
  - StewardShip - more self serve customers
  - Picked - people who want more help in selecting
Other wine.com personalization initiatives
- Making the largest wine store curated just for you
- Elevate recommendations and put them in context
- Use prior purchase data, ratings, and if a wine was added to the shopping cart
User ratings
- StewardShip members rate more frequently
- Send emails to encourage ratings
- Wine.com App - users more likely to rate
- Picked members provide ratings to help personal somms
Leveraging technology to elevate the wine retail experience
- Recommendation engines, email programs
- Wine.com App - the store and wine encyclopedia in your pocket
- Virtual tastings
Wine.com is likely never to go brick & mortar
- Would limit the selection available
- Would limit personalization of experience

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Beginning a series on the Future of Retail, we chat with Dave Parker, CEO of Benchmark Wine Group, on how he segments the retail wine market, the unique issues of rare wine, and emerging trends in the space. Listen in to learn about what regions are selling well, the importance of email marketing, a mobile-first mindset, and many other topics that will shape wine retail for the coming decade.

2021 Year-End Episode Live on Clubhouse - Mark your calendars for December 9th at 12 pm Pacific time!

Detailed Show Notes:

Dave’s background
- Was in high tech, bought a vineyard to be in the wine business originally
- 1998 - started Brentwood Wine Company in Oregon, the internet’s 1st online auction house (had challenges as Oregon requires ownership of product before auctioning it)
- 2002 -He started Benchmark Wine Group in California - CA allows someone to hold both retail and wholesale licenses
Wine Retail Landscape
- Popular Wines - sold in grocery stores, consumers want something to have with dinner
- Fine Wine - mostly current releases sold, buyers knowledge of wine and have brand loyalty
- Rare Wine (where Benchmark specializes) is not generally available, either back vintages of fine wine or ultra scarce products sold only to allocation lists. The wines need to be able to age and often cost $100+/bottle.
  - Collectors and investors have deep knowledge of the wines, understand how they appreciate in value, and how well they age, but are also concerned about condition and authenticity
Rare Wine Trends
- Used to be classified Bordeaux dominated the market
- Burgundy has emerged and appreciated in value
- Champagne has also solidified its spot
- During US-EU wine tariffs on many EU wines (25%) - Champagne and Italy increased in demand (did not have tariffs)
- Rhone and Spanish wines emerging over time
- Largest rare wine markets in the US
  - CA and Tri-State area (NY, NJ, CT)
  - FL, TX, and IL are also large
  - Collectors in every state in the country
Sustainability becoming an essential topic across all consumer categories
Benchmark Wine Group - focuses on the rare wine market
- Largest selection of rare wines, ~13,000 wines with ~100,000 bottles at any given time (~70-80% of wines come from private collections)
- Provenance Guarantee - meticulous on how wines are inspected, and Benchmark handles all the transportation
- Have on-staff sommeliers and salespeople to work with clients
- Margins look more like a distributor than a retailer - have to take more risk around the ability to sell the wines and more specialized labor for inspection
- Can ship to 45 states - transactions take place in CA, buyer technically ships wines to themselves
Benchmark vs. auction houses
- Benchmark advantages - price certainty, immediate payment, prices often on the high end of auction prices
- Auction disadvantages - no guarantee of sale, sale and payment could take months
Rare wine pricing
- Also owns the Wine Market Journal - expert source for auction information, data from 1986, provides a baseline for selling price
- Tracks sales from some large retailers
- Wine-Searcher shows asking prices vs. selling prices
Technology & wine retail
- Emerging trends - leveraging AI for label scanning and wine recommendations
- In-person tastings to come back but still have virtual and hybrid experiences
  - Benchmark does “Raid Your Cellar” - where a sommelier talks to a winemaker
  - NYC Wine Spectator’s Wine Experience in 2021 - hybrid event - Masterclass instructors were sometimes in person, sometimes remote
- Email marketing
  - Will continue to be the most efficient and effective
  - More than one email/day from a retailer can be overwhelming
  - Benchmark does some email segmentation to reduce “spam”
    - Segment by region - e.g., only get emails for Bordeaux, Burgundy, etc.
    - Segment by wine age - e.g., only last 20 years of wines, not older vintages
  - Rare wine collectors older (mostly Gen X, Baby Boomers) - still prefer email
  - Some younger customers (Millennials) prefer instant messaging, text
- Use of mobile is more important than native apps (don’t provide that much more functionality vs. mobile designed websites)
- Vivino - sits in-between retailer and consumer, creates a 4th or 5th tier
Wine Scores
- Critical the higher up the price curve you go - provides a guide for consumers
- Adds credibility to producers
- Affirmation for a particular wine for a specific vintage
- Consumer reviews (e.g., CellarTracker, Vivino) can be used for more recent tastings vs. professional reviewers
Potential for market disruption
- Consolidation likely to continue - Total Wine, Costco - continue to build out more nationwide reach
- Technology - wine world catching up with the rest of the world
- Small retailers - need to compete with more personalized service, which can leverage tools to be virtual now
- Delivery to door, sometimes in hours or minutes in some states

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Having experienced the difference in taste from wines sourced ex-chateau versus the secondary market, Denis Houles, CEO of 1275 Collections, is on a mission to create a new wine asset class of pristine conditions wines. Denis and Erik Portanger, Head of Strategy at 1275 Collections, tell us about the industry-wide issues around provenance, particularly with transportation and storage, and how 1275 leverages technology and direct chateaux relationships to build a solution to keep the wines as if they never left the chateaux.

Detailed Show Notes:

Denis’ background
- He grew up in the south of France, fell in love with wine in Bordeaux
- MIT engineering grad lived in Rome, got a Stanford MBA, and worked at McKinsey & Company in London
- Believes in working in what you’re passionate about and founded Claret Club in 2003 - a private members club centered around wine, having chefs crafts food around the wine instead of vice versa
Erik’s background
- A financial journalist for the Wall Street Journal in London was about to also write about personal passions, which was wine
- He went to 1st Claret Club even in 2003 with Chateau Palmer and had his 1st wine epiphany
1275 Collections Overview
- Fully documented, fully transparent way of collecting pristine wine from chateaux
- Based in the freeport of Geneva - wines held in bond, no sales taxes until removed
- Purchase directly from chateaux or negociant, sometimes get back vintages
- “Internet of Bottles” - NFC chips with credit card grade security, for provenance and monitoring of temperature and humidity, pairs with a mobile app
- Data per bottle and case, only tracked while in 1275’s control
Provenance: issues with storage and transportation
- Provenance is more than just not being fake, but also how many hands the wine has passed through and storage conditions
- Fine wine often moved between warehouses in trucks - often unrefrigerated
- LVMH launched its own traceability platform called Aura
- Octavian Vaults in the UK - requests for photos of bottles has increased ~30% each year for the last few years, highlighting the growing consumer awareness of strong provenance
Provenance premium
- Some are high, e.g., DRC from Drouhin cellar sold for ~$500k/bottle
- Historically, the premium is meager - ~2-3% because most wines are bought and sold by traders
- Premium increasing over time - auctions and library wines sold from chateaux selling for higher premiums
Traceability solutions
- Pure tracking
- Comprehensive - tracking and monitoring (temperature, humidity)
- eProvenance is a B2B solution for wineries and importers
- 1275 Collections believes a fully traceable stock of wines will come
- 1275 believes wine damage from storage/handling is a more significant issue than counterfeit wines
Wine Storage
- There is minimal research on the impacts of storage
- The more researched area is the impact of transportation - road transportation is worse than cargo ships
- Lack of transparency and accountability in the industry
- Key things to track - temperature, temperature fluctuations (change pressure in the bottle), humidity, circulation of air (to prevent mold), lack of contaminants (free of bad smells) - mostly TCA
1275 Business Model
- End-to-end solution for people who want a great wine collection, direct from estates with technology to have full traceability
- Collections start at €25,000
- 2% annual management fee (includes sourcing, transportation, insurance, and storage)
- For €100,000+ - a one-off advisory fee of €4,000 and lower management fees (1.4-1.8%)
- ~€15M+ under management currently (October 2021)

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Building the app while on sabbatical from Microsoft in 2003, Eric LeVine, CEO and founder of CellarTracker, had been close to a one-person show until recently. Yet, he’s built one of the most useful productivity tools for wine collectors, an engaged community of geeky wine lovers, and a respectable business that he’s now investing in to grow and take to new heights for the benefit of the CellarTracker community. Eric’s openness and candor provide an in-depth look at how one of the leading wine platforms was founded, built, and where it’s going next.

Detailed Show Notes:

Eric’s background
- “Tech geek” to “wine geek”
- He was at Microsoft from 1992 - 2005; his last project was the “send error report” feature
- 1999 - took a biking trip to Tuscany and fell in love with wine and started collecting
- Built a tool to keep track of his cellar, then let a few friends use it, which morphed a personal spreadsheet into a relational database
- Eric created CellarTracker while on sabbatical from Microsoft in 2003, then in April 2004, launched it publicly and left Microsoft a few months later
CellarTracker overview
- Core element - a productivity tool to catalog and manage every aspect of the wine experience (e.g., purchasing, tracking, consuming)
- Byproduct - “Yelp for wine” - the aggregated wisdom of the community from tasting notes, drinking windows
- User base
  - 10M unique people visit the site
  - ~750k registered users
  - ~300k active users
- Wine database
  - 4M wines created
  - 135M bottles in cellars
  - 9.1M tasting notes in the community + 1.3M professional tasting notes
Features and functions
- Optical recognition of labels - partners with Vivino
- Most used features - tasting notes (~10M visitors/year on the website, most people reading or researching the tasting notes; ~9.1M tasting notes growing ~750k / year / ~2k / day)
- Features collectors use - what wines do they have, when do they want to drink them, what are wines worth (the main premium feature)
- Wine valuations - partner with Wine Market Journal for appraisals, overlaid with what people are paying for the wines in CellarTracker
- Drinking windows - updated by users, partnership with review publications to overlay their data for subscribers of their content
- Surprise & Delight feature - the ability to print a restaurant-style wine list
- Geekiest feature - can print unique barcodes for your bottles and use a scanner to check them in and out
  - Default mode - creates a unique barcode for each specific bottle
  - For restaurants - uses same code for each wine of a particular size
Conducted research into the wine collector space
- ~18M people in the US store wine at home / in a wine fridge
- ~10% awareness of CellarTracker in the US
- ~5-10% awareness of CellarTracker globally
Data analytics
- They just hired the 1st data scientist several weeks ago (as of Oct 2021)
- They haven’t done a lot to date
- User ratings - can track/follow specific authors, most often used for older wines at auction as one of the only sources of data for older wines
  - Richard Bazinet authored research in 2016 of an analysis of community ratings vs. professional publications
  - Never specifically built tools to enhance “influencers” in the system, was anti “gamification” elements to incentivize people to write tasting notes
- Data accuracy - has a team of 4 (some PT/ some FT) to curate the wine database and look for duplicates, use both automation and humans to have duplicate detection
Business model
- “Voluntary Payment” - one of the early “Freemium” business models
  - Established this because the value of CellarTracker is in the active community, and the data it creates makes the platform more robust and valuable
  - Suggested payment based on the size of collection - avg ~$57/year
    - $40/year for <500 bottles
    - $80/year for 500-999 bottles
    - $160/year for 1,000+ bottles
    - The lowest payment is $20, and some pay thousands
  - The majority of revenue comes from this
- Some ads, but not in the app
- Affiliate links with Wine-Searcher - the #2 referral source after Google
Key differentiators of CellarTracker
- Cellar management - hardcore focus on scalable needs of collectors
- Good engagement - attracted a set of people who keep coming back
- Community - an “authoritative” audience - more geeky people that are in the community
- Focus on privacy, needs of the community, up-time, neutrality (not affiliated with retailers or other businesses)
The next horizon for CellarTracker
- Building a team - was only 3 people at the start of 2021, the goal is to be 11 by year-end (data scientists, engineers, UI designer)
- Upgrade & deepen the existing experience, especially mobile app - they have seen a significant shift to mobile over the last 10 years,
- More recommendations and automation of different scenarios
- Connection to industry/wineries/other parts of the wine ecosystem (no natural interfaces today)
- Better understand and engage with the 10M people who visit the CellarTracker website - many of whom use it as a research platform
- Brought on a group of angel investors to reinvest cash flow into the business

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As the only fine wine end-to-end solution in the US, Vinfolio has recently launched its wine investment service, leveraging its deep expertise in the fine wine arena. Don St. Pierre, Executive Chairman, and Adam Lapierre MW, President, tell us about Vinfolio's history, how the marketplace, storage solution, and VinCellar work together, as well as get into their recent foray into wine investment. A must-listen for those intrigued with wine investment and for fine wine lovers in general.

Detailed Show Notes:

Don St. Pierre's background
- 1996 - founded ASC Fine Wines w/ his father, a wine importer in China
- 2010 - sold ASC to Suntory, stayed with the company until 2014
- 2015 - got connected with Vinfolio and bought 33% of business with a friend
Adam Lapierre's background
- Mainly on the supply side (worked at a winery in the Finger Lakes, at an importer)
- Became an MW in 2013 and moved to the buying side, working for Lidl, a major retailer of wine
- Joined Vinfolio in 2018, became President in 2020
Vinfolio's history
- Started by Steve Backman, a software entrepreneur, and wine collector, in 2004 - he wanted to create a cellar management tool and marketplace to store and sell wine
- Built VinCellar - cellar management tool, started at a similar time to Cellar Tracker (Eric Levine), the difference is Steve wanted a more end-to-end solution for collectors vs. a more utility tool for Cellar Tracker
- Built VinFolio - marketplace and warehouse storage business
- 2009 - Vinfolio went bankrupt in Global Financial Crisis, clients came in and took over the business
- Vinfolio is an end-to-end solution for wine collectors - buying, storing, and selling wine, focusing on the niche of fine wine coupled with technology
- Similar business model to some UK businesses (e.g., Berry Bros & Rudd, Farr Vintners)
- Most people hear about Vinfolio through retail/e-commerce today, but that may shift as VinCellar is re-built and re-launched
Vinfolio Marketplace
- A fixed price auction model
- Uses proprietary tools that determine recommended market price for collectors to sell at
- Storage clients use VinCellar to put wines for sale, or others can use the full-service option w/ the cellar acquisition team (every bottle on the marketplace has been inspected with it being rare for wines to be sent back)
- Wine sourcing
  - Collector Marketplace (⅓ of wine sales) - from individual collectors
  - Producer Marketplace (⅔ of wine sales) - from a global network of merchants (e.g., negociants), direct from producers, and US importers/distributors (~15-20% of sourcing)
  - Try to clearly differentiate between the sourcing types
- Advantages of the Vinfolio marketplace
  - For Buyers - the breadth of wine at their fingertips, more clarity around the asking price vs. other auctions
  - For Sellers - realized prices often higher than live auctions (except for very rare wines)
Wine Storage
- A vital part of the business is to create ready supply for the marketplace
- It makes VinCellar an essential part of the business
- Convenience for clients to get delivery
- A premium service
  - Pricing ~$5/case/month
  - Inventory is cataloged and received at the bottle level
  - Clients can take delivery or sell wines at the bottle level
Wine Investment Service
- It started because Vinfolio got unsolicited inquiries around wine as an asset class for investment
- Retail marketplace helps Vinfolio understand where market demand is
- Investment customers are mainly new customers vs. traditional clients that are more passionate wine collectors
- Vinfolio investment process
  - Min investment size = $25,000 - in order to have a diversified portfolio
  - Purchase in original wood cases (OWC) mostly
  - Understand client's interests
  - Focus mainly on blue-chip / investment grade wines, the foundation of every portfolio is Bordeaux
  - "Stock picking" - look at buying opportunities and allocate portfolio across current and mature vintages
  - Put wines in storage - mainly in the UK under bond (as it's easier to sell)
- Key benefits of Vinfolio wine investment
  - Buying side - acquire below market (charge landed cost (which includes shipping from the UK) + 6% commission, which is usually 10-20% below US retailer pricing)
  - Selling side - uses fixed auction model, 12% commission for the sale (lower than standard commission rates)
- Storage fees consistent with w/ Vinfolio storage fees
- Investors get access to special wines, similar to private clients
- Vinfolio has an informal list of producers with high demand, leveraging experience of the day to day business
- Uses Vin-dex - Vinfolio proprietary pricing algorithm - provides a daily market price for wines
  - Has 10 years of historical auction data
  - Wine-Searcher pricing - takes in ~5,000 web calls/day
  - Historic Vinfolio sale prices
- Also a member of Liv-ex
- The investment service launched a couple of months ago (as of Oct 2021) - ~$0.75M assets under management vs. ~$250M total under in Vinfolio storage
- Investment differentiators
  - Transparency of process, particularly rationale for wine selections
  - Investment strategy - diversification with multiple cases of wine
  - Experience in the fine wine market
Big initiatives for Vinfolio
- VinCellar overhaul - orienting data around investment as well
- E-commerce platform re-launch - transitioning to a new platform with more refined, personalized user experiences
- Hiring more quality people to service clients
- Carrying more inventory to have more wine available

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As the wine investment business leader with $275M of assets under management, Cult Wines has been a pioneer in the space for over a decade. Born out of a passion for wine, Tom Gearing, CEO and founder of Cult Wines, tries to balance the head and heart elements of investing in wine with actively managed portfolios by CFAs and experiences with some of the top wineries of the world. Tom shares all the details and great examples of why people should consider investing in wine, the Cult Wine investment process, and where Cult Wines is heading.

Detailed Show Notes:

Tom’s background
- founded Cult Wines w/ his brother in university
- Father was an investment banker with a passion for wine, especially Burgundy
  - Traveled a lot to Burgundy as a child
  - Started an import company - Burgundy Cellar
  - The early 2000s - started Financial Wines - an online price transparency tool, but ran out of funding after the dot com crash
- 2007-2008 - during Financial Crisis - people looking for alternative investments - Tom realized wine was a safe haven and should be more investable
Based in the UK
- Where the Wine trading is very well established
- The UK has tax free status for wine trading for anyone in the world - can keep wine in a tax free warehouse where you don’t pay taxes (sales tax, VAT) upfront
- Asian collectors used London to build collections before shipping it
- Brexit impact - mostly operational (shipping is a lot slower) vs. tax,
Why invest in wine?
- Those with a passion for wine - Build a fine wine collection, can drink it, or sell it in the future
- Those not passionate about wine - wine prices are more consistent and tend to go up in value because the supply goes down over time (people drink it), tends to be insensitive to financial market fluctuations (went up in value in 2009) - suitable for diversification
- Vs. art/cars/other alternative investments, wine is more attractive:
  - Accessibility - lower barriers to entry - hundreds or thousands of dollars for wine vs. millions for fine art/cars
  - Liquidity - better than other alternative assets
  - Price transparency - more trading publicly and more visibility (though, still not as good as it could be)
- Wine investment serves as a storage/aging function for the fine wine market with pristine provenance and authenticity
Cult Wines Overview
- Not a retailer - acquires wines on behalf of clients
- Three warehouses - London, Paris, Bordeaux
  - EU changed storage laws in 2016 to hold wines without paying VAT (similar to the UK)
  - Have own warehouse and staff to ensure provenance and authenticity of wines (e.g., caught heat damage on a shipment of Scarecrow wine and made a claim with freight forwarder immediately)
  - Has own photography studio and processes 250 cases/day, and photos are immediately uploaded for inspection
- Investment process
  - Has a managed portfolio service (min $10k investment)
  - Gather client objectives - risk profile, investment duration (3-5 years, 5-10 years, 10+ years), how wine fits into their entire portfolio
  - Build a personalized, customized portfolio
  - Store wine in physical warehouses (clients own bottles or cases, the physical asset b/c it’s hard to have liquidity for funds where people have fractional ownership of a fund)
  - Get access to investment platform
- Top-down investment process - actively managed portfolios
  - Cult Wines has a Chief Investment Officer (CIO), and all portfolio managers are Chartered Financial Analysts (CFA)
  - Constantly reviewing the market and making asset allocation decisions
  - E.g., Trump Tariffs on European wine - team thought Bordeaux would go down in price, proposed reducing allocations from 40% -> 30% and re-allocate to Italy, which looked undervalued already and had no tariffs; in 6 months, AUM of Bordeaux went from 40%->36% and Italy 6%->13% and Bordeaux prices went down 2-3% and Italy up 12%
- Assets Under Management (AUM) - $275M
  - UK/Europe is the biggest
  - Asia next
  - Americas (smallest, but newest)
- Fees
  - Annual management fee - starts at 2.95%/year (with $10k investment), 2.75% (with $35k investment), 2.5% ($150k investment), 2.25% ($500k investment)
  - Benefits - portfolio allocation, customization of the portfolio, investment platform access, customer support, storage & insurance, trading on the platform (no feeds on trading to align Cult Wines interests with clients)
  - Higher tiers get more experiential benefits - access to producers, client-only events, educational activities, vineyard visits
- Wine Buying
  - 35% direct from winery/new vintages
  - 65% secondary market - from existing investors, trusted suppliers/brokers, and trading platforms (e.g., Liv-Ex)
- Wine Selling / Delivery
  - ~20% of wines have been delivered to people, can ship to 45 states, clients pay delivery fees
  - Some clients use Cult wines as a global cellar - e.g., a Japanese collector sent wines to the US when he was going to be there to visit
  - Wine sales channels
    - Cult Wines buys for other clients - for wines they believe will appreciate more
    - Trade team - sells to other wine merchants, brokers, traders, importers
    - Retail/Direct to Consumer - listed on Wine-Searcher and Cult Wines website for sale
- Team - ~100 people total
  - Infrastructure based in UK (including ~24 tech and product folks)
  - Regional offices - relationship managers, portfolio manager (all CFA level; Hong Kong, Singapore, 2 in London, New York)
  - 8 in North America (3 in Canada, 5 in New York)
- Company’s Growth
  - 1st 5 years - establishing proof of concept
  - 2nd 5 years:
    - 2014 - acquired competitor, Premier Cru Fine Wine Investments, doubled AUM and business
    - 2016 - opened Hong Kong office
    - 2018 - opened Singapore office
    - 2014-2019 - $7 -> $50Mm in AUM
  - Next 5-year phase (18 months in) - “reborn, evolution”
    - Fine wine investment is limited by market inefficiencies: accessibility, liquidity, price transparency
    - Focused on projects that will improve inefficiencies and that will naturally make the wine investment space grow
Types of wine for investment
- Opportunistic trading - capturing inefficiencies in pricing - there may be opportunities to buy in one region and sell in another at a profit
- Benchmark wines - based on scores (with critics weighted differently by the impact), vintages, the value of an established baseline of wines (e.g., Bordeaux, Burgundy)
- Finding new opportunities - wines with high quality that have a good chance of increasing in value, e.g., Pierre Gonon St Joseph - was 30-40 euros 3-4 years ago, now $150/bottle
Auction houses - don’t work with them much
- Hard to get certainty of provenance
- A lot more mature/older wines which have already gone up a lot in value
- Costs are prohibitive (10-20% on a transaction)
- But the best place to get the highest/best prices (e.g., 1945 DRC from the Drouhin cellar got ~$500k / bottle)
Next for Cult Wines
- Launching new platform for managed investment service
- Bespoke, public blockchain for security, authenticity, and speed of secure transactions
- Continue to build North American offices (opened Spring 2021) in Canada and New York

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A serial entrepreneur, Anthony Zhang, was pondering alternative investments and fell into wine. With superior returns to the S&P 500, less volatility, and low correlation with the stock market, wine investment seemed like a perfect category to democratize with technology. Anthony tells us why people should consider investing in wine, the Vinovest investment process, and how wine investment may impact the wine industry. All with a mission of lowering the cost and barriers for the average consumer to invest in wine.

Detailed Show Notes:

Anthony’s background
- He grew up around the world, childhood in Beijing and Hong Kong
- Went to USC for college and founded EnvoyNow, a food delivery service for college campuses with investment from Mark Cuban and Peter Thiel
- Was considering alternative investments and was attracted to wine over others (e.g., art, cars)
Wine investing challenges
- Hard to get access to the wines
- Fees for auctions, shipping, and storage
Investment thesis - fine wine has outperformed the S&P 500 over the last 20 years, has half the volatility, and has a low correlation with the stock market (i.e., is a good hedge); wine also has a decreasing supply over time, which enables appreciation over time
Vinovest investment process
- Choose how much to invest, how long to invest in (e.g., 5 vs. 20 years), and your risk appetite (e.g., blue-chip wines like 1st growths or Grand Cru Burgundy or “emerging markets” like newer winemakers, ownership changes, etc.…) => this helps determine which wines to invest in
- Invest in whole bottles or cases, not fractional bottles or fractions of a portfolio
- Acquire, store, and insure wines
- Vinovest can help sell wines as well
- Fees - all-inclusive 2.85% / year asset management fee
  - Access/procurement of wines
  - Shipping and wine storage
  - Insurance
- Average bottle price ~$200-600/bottle
- Acquire wines below retail by buying direct from negociants or wineries
- Currently managing ~$50M (as of Sept 2021)
- Can take physical delivery of wines - but often stored in Europe, so can arrange for batch delivery with others to reduce shipping costs (from hundreds of dollars to <$100 for shipping)
Valuing wine and liquidity
- Vinovest plugs into major wine exchanges (e.g., Liv-ex, Wine Owners, Cavex, Berry Bros, Bordeaux Index) to gather real-time sales data
- Selling wine - only invest in whole bottles and cases, so there are more places to sell to, including retailers and restaurants. Most deals are done offline
- Good liquidity for 5-15-year-old wines
- Need at least a 5 year time horizon to realize returns
Investable wines
- Need scarcity (not available widely), track record of improving with age, and brand equity (a sought after, globally recognized brand)
- Regional mix - ~25-35% Bordeaux, #2 = Burgundy, #3 = Italy (Super Tuscans, Barolo), small amounts of select producers in California, Chile, Germany; vintage Champagne having a resurgence (e.g. - 1996, 2002 vintages)
- Algorithm for determining wines backtested back to the 1980s
Fake/counterfeit wines
- Provenance/fraud are the most significant risk for newcomers => Vinovest’s insurance company inspects and authenticates the wines
- Vinovest only buys in-bond so can track the previous owners
Key players in the wine investment space
- Mainly in Asia and Europe
- Private Banks have wine funds, UK (Vin-X, Wine-ex, Cult Wines)
- Vinovest differentiation - more technology-driven, collect more data and aggregate it to create automated investment strategies
- To address wine funds that fail - each investor owns their wines with an audit trail that shows the wine is theirs
Wine investment impact on the wine industry
- Wine prices may increase as more players enter the investment market
- Climate change is increasing prices through lower yields
- It won’t impact commercial wines (e.g., $10-20 bottles), but fine wines
- Auction houses - the modern investor isn’t okay with paying 20-25% premiums
Regulation
- US - wine is classified as a collectible, like art or rare coins, and is subject to capital gains tax when sold (self-reported)
- Int’l - some countries, like the UK, France, and parts of Asia, wine is classified as a “wasting asset” with an expiration date (often 50 years) and is capital gains tax-free
Next for Vinovest - want to continue to educate consumers on the benefits of wine investing, intends to create a low entry point to make wine investing more accessible

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With droughts, floods, hail, wildfires, and more challenging how wine is made, Familia Torres and Jackson Family Wines are leading the way to tackle climate change in the wine industry by founding the International Wineries for Climate Action. Founded in 2019, the group already has 22 members and continues to expand its reach and impact. Listen in as Josep Maria Ribas Portella, Climate Change Director for Familia Torres, and Julien Gervreau, VP Sustainability at Jackson Family Wines, tell us about the impacts of climate change, how to measure GHG in the wine industry, and ways wineries are working to improve their emissions. A mission-critical effort for the entire wine industry, listen in to learn more!

Detailed Show Notes:

Josep’s & Familia Torres’ background
- Climate Change Director, an energy engineer, has been with Familia Torres for five years
- Torres - 150-year history, 5th generation running the company
- Climate change dept reports directly to Miguel Torres (CEO), who got passionate about the subject after watching An Inconvenient Truth with Al Gore
Julien & Jackson Family Wines’ (“JFW”) background
- VP Sustainability at JFW
- JFW is a large, family-owned company, best known for Kendall Jackson and La Crema
- In the 2nd generation, the company is very passionate about climate change
- 2008 - Torres and JFW came together on climate change and the need to measure greenhouse gas (“GHG”) emissions
International Wineries for Climate Action (IWCA)
- Founded by Torres and JFW in 2019
- ~2010 - Miguel Torres tried to start something similar in Spain, but it didn’t work out
- Deciding to partner w/ JFW and make it international led to the successful launch of the IWCA
- IWCA tries to standardize emissions measurement and communications
- The wine industry is not a significant contributor to climate change, but agriculture is an emerging area of opportunity, and wine can represent agriculture more broadly
- IWCA is 1st agriculture group to join the UN’s “Race to Zero” initiative
Impact of climate change on the wine industry
- The impacts are being felt globally (Torres)
- Advanced ripening of grapes (leading to higher alcohols)
- More extreme weather - prolonged droughts in Spain, flooding, late hail, hydric stress (leading to worse wildfires), late-season heat spikes
Measuring GHG emissions - Scope 1-3 definition
- Scope 1 - direct emissions - e.g., fuel burnt in winery vehicles, gas used in boilers, CO2 usage
- Scope 2 - indirect emissions from purchase of electricity
- Scope 3 - indirect emissions from purchased goods and services - e.g., packaging, logistics, waste disposal of bottles, etc.…
- Scope 1&2 are ~20-25% of GHG emissions, Scope 3 - 75-80%
GHG impact of a bottle of wine
- Use World Resource Institute’s GHG Protocol and ISO14064 inventory management process
- For IWCA members (as of Oct 2021) - the average bottle of wine has a 1.61 CO2e/L of GHG emissions
- Range - 0.75 - ~10 => larger wineries tend to be lower, smaller wineries tend to be higher
GHG reduction measures
- Shipping is ~15% of carbon footprint for Torres => using railroad when possible, ship in bulk (for every 1 bulk shipper sent, it replaces 4 containers, saving 3 shipments)
- Electricity - many wineries installing onsite renewable energy, primarily solar
  - Harvest is 2.5 months/year but uses ~50% of electric consumption
- Packaging - ~25% of total GHG footprint
  - Glass is ~20% of the total GHG footprint
  - JFW - reduced the weight of bottles for KJ and La Crema - saved ~3-4% of total GHG emissions and saved money
  - Reduce weight bottles have more recycled content in the glass, reduce emissions of glass making process (e.g., Furnace of the Future), bloggers starting to weigh bottles before tasting
  - Torres - bottles down to 400g, can’t go much lower, or bottles will break on the bottling line or with consumers
  - Potential future of re-utilizing bottles
- Regenerative farming - could potentially lead to carbon sequestration in the soil, science still in progress
IWCA Mission & Purpose
- Decarbonize the wine industry as fast as possible
- 3 membership classes - Gold, Silver, Applicant (committed to joining)
- Requirements
  - Commit to Net Zero by 2050 with intermediate reductions by 2030 (all)
  - Submit baseline GHG emissions inventory, verified by 3rd party audit (all)
  - Min 20% onsite renewable energy (Gold)
  - Constant reductions year over year (Gold)
- Do not recognize purchase of external offsets in reductions
- Target membership
  - Goal - 20 wineries by Nov 2021
  - Oct 2021 - 22 wineries
  - Miguel Torres long-term target - 100 wineries
- Fees - a sliding scale by volume
  - Flat fee - €4,000 / year
  - Variable fee - €0.01 / case produced / year, cap of 600,000 cases
  - Max fee = €10,000 / year
  - Measurement & verification paid by wineries themselves
Released a GHG calculator to enable wineries to catalog emissions data on their own
Smaller wineries join (there are members as small as a few thousand cases) to participate in something bigger and to amplify their voice
Upcoming for the IWCA
- Oct 21st - 1st Member Report launch - includes all GHG inventories from all members, which will be made public
- The website will be overhauled
- Friends of IWCA category to be launched
- The initial stage of working groups launching

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Instituted in a different time, post Prohibition, the 3-Tier system of alcohol distribution and sales in the US creates inefficiencies in matching inventory with demand. Tom Wark, Executive Director of the National Association of Wine Retailers (“NAWR”), founder of Wark Communications, and writer of Fermentation - the Daily Wine Blog educates us on the history, key issues, and challenges of navigating the 3-Tier system for wine consumers to get the wines they want. The NAWR is on a mission to modernize the regulatory landscape for alcohol and bring choice to consumers. Listen in to Tom’s decades of war stories on wine regulation!

Detailed Show Notes:

Tom’s background
- He grew up in Northern California and got interested in wine at an early age
- He got a Masters in History
- Worked in wine PR, then started his firm - Wark Communications
- Started Fermentation - the Daily Wine Blog, in 2004 - wrote a lot about regulation, was pro-DTC (direct-to-consumer)
- Approached by the board of National Association of Wine Retailers (“NAWR”) to be Executive Director (2008)
NAWR
- Members all independent fine wine retailers (e.g., K&L, Zachy’s, Grapes, the Wine Company)
- 100 members nationwide
- Estimate ~500 retailers actively doing e-commerce and interstate shipping
- ~400,000 alcohol licenses nationally
Wine Retail Space
- Grocery stores, convenience stores, drug stores, big-box retailers - mostly <$15/bottle, ~75% of wine sold
- Small independent retailers => focus of NAWR
- Multi-state retailers (e.g., Total Wine, BevMo)
- DTC from wineries
Key issues for fine wine retailers
- Primary - want to serve customers where they are
  - Amazon could get into the wine space w/ Whole Foods alcohol licenses and ship to anyone locally -> The only way for independent retailers to compete is to do interstate shipping
  - 16 states currently allow interstate shipping
  - Wine.com has retail licenses in many states to ship to most states
- Secondary issue - procurement of inventory
  - Retailers must buy from in-state wholesalers who have a limited selection
  - Retailers desire to purchase directly from importers or wineries no matter where they are to broaden their selection
NAWR mission - to modernize the regulatory landscape for alcohol
- Most regulations were written in the 1930s-1950s
- Alcohol is more regulated than tobacco
  - E.g., if a brewery wants to sell direct to consumer, it needs to sell to a wholesaler and then repurchase it to sell to the consumer
  - Franchise laws - binds producer to a wholesaler for life, even if the wholesaler is no longer supporting the brand
- Advocate litigation for change - e.g., states that allow their own retailers to ship to other states but don’t allow out-of-state retailers to ship in, believes that violates the dormant commerce clause of the Constitution
- Lobbying, education of retailers, cultivation of allies (very few - consumers and media; most against - distributors, non-online retailers (believe it will create more competition), wineries (indifferent), importers (were not active supporters))
The 3-Tier system in the US
- 1930’s - post-prohibition (1933) - each state had to regulate alcohol, and each did it a bit differently
- Two main concerns - prevent tied house laws and organized crime
  - Tied house - producers controlled retailers => got bars to do sketchy things and promote high alcohol consumption
- 3-tiers - producer, wholesaler, retailer
- Retailers must buy from wholesalers
- Stopping tied house - wineries can’t own retailers
- Historically - lots of wholesalers competing to represent producers
- Today - 10,000+ wineries, fewer wholesalers -> wholesalers act as gatekeepers, not required to bring producers in and shut out small producers who aren’t worth the time and effort to represent them
- CA producers and importers can sell direct to retailers/restaurants
- Wholesalers are very powerful - contribute meaningfully ($10M+/year) to state political campaigns, 10x more than wineries and retailers combined
- Each state has different 3-tier regulation, creates an enormous compliance burden
  - IL - wineries can sell directly to retailers only if they produce <25k cases/year and must sell <5k cases/year w/in the state
  - CA/WA - all direct sales from producers to retailers/restaurants
E-commerce
- ~10-12% of wine retail today, includes Drizly, Instacart, & grocery delivery
- Shipping far smaller than delivery
- To be successful, retailers need to engage consumers digitally - cultivate an email list, create an experience for customers
- Challenges
  - Getting wine to consumers (illegal to ship to many states)
  - Hard to make time to do outreach to legislators, regulators while running a small business
  - Restaurants become retailers during the Covid pandemic
- The 1980s & 1990s - number of wineries exploded, they needed to sell directly to consumers since distributors wouldn’t represent them, became legal a precedent with the 2005 Supreme Court Granholm case - which specified if states allowed in-state wineries to ship to consumers, it must allow out-of-state wineries to ship into the state
Taxes
- If states allow retailers to ship in, retailers are required to remit local sales taxes and have a permit
- Software systems set up for wineries also can cover retailers (e.g., ShipCompliant, Avalara), makes compliance easier
Pure online players - wine.com, Naked Wines => valuable for showing consumers what can be accessed online and the experience of online retail
What needs to change? The Supreme court needs to tell states not to discriminate (2019 case - Tennessee vs. Thomas - can’t discriminate against retailers)

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Accidentally filling the big shoes of Michael Broadbent and Steven Spurrier, Jane Anson, wine critic, author of Inside Bordeaux, founder of janeanson.com, and former Bordeaux correspondent for Decanter for nearly 20 years, is one of the world’s foremost experts on the wines, history, and region of Bordeaux. Having lived in Bordeaux since 2003, Jane shares her deep insights into how Bordeaux became as famous as it is, how the systems of La Place de Bordeaux and En Primeur work, and the complex terroir of the region. She gives us insight into the content of janeanson.com and how it will be a unique look into Bordeaux, focus on the drinkability of the wines, and many of the unique features to be released.

Detailed Show Notes:

Jane’s background
- Living in Bordeaux since 2003, she thought she’d only be there for 1-2 years
- Journalist background
- Decanter’s Bordeaux correspondent for nearly 20 years, wrote a weekly column since 2014, the sole Bordeaux wine critic since the 2016 vintage
- She took a tasting aptitude class at the enology school in Bordeaux
- She chose Bordeaux because it’s still a big city (lived in London before), 2 hours from the Spanish border, 2 hours from Paris
Janeanson.com
- Can be accessed by inside-bordeaux.com or janeanson.com
- Saw a gap in the market for a website specializing in Bordeaux vs. ~4-5 for Burgundy
- Value proposition
  - No outside investment, no advertising
  - Focus on drinkability
  - Covers all wines that sell through La Place de Bordeaux (including the ~90 wines that are not Bordeaux wines)
  - Regular verticals, en primeur, in bottle reports
  - Two weeks of trips during the year
    - One week - for high-end collectors
    - One week - “free” aimed at young sommeliers, people that want to work in the wine trade to showcase the dynamic side of Bordeaux
- Launch specials
  - a translation of memoirs of a WWII soldier in Bordeaux
  - Vertical of tiny producer LaFleur Saint-Jean - lies in between Lafleur, Lafleur Petrus, and Petrus in Pomerol only sells direct, sells out immediately, had never done a vertical before
- 1% for the Planet - 1% of revenue goes towards environmental charities
Bordeaux’s rise and fall
- Key advantages
  - A port city, far enough inland to be a safe port
  - 12th century - duchy of the English crown, wines were sold in the London market
  - The system of chateaux, merchants, negociants was built for export
  - Terroir is very complex (which may be why it’s not talked about much), e.g., of the 61 wines in the 1855 Medoc classification, all of them are on two specific gravel terraces (#3 & 4) of the six terraces of the Medoc
    - Mostly clay underneath with gravel on top
    - Lots of micro terroirs
    - St Emilion - has pure limestone, clay, and gravel
- Issues that have hurt Bordeaux
  - Every vintage is not great, though Bordelais often say that
  - Frustrate people based on the prices they ask (e.g., 2009/2010 vintages - many people who bought lost money)
La Place de Bordeaux
- Business to business, sell to merchants that sell to consumers
- Virtual marketplace - enables access to 10,000 clients globally
- Includes chateaux, brokers, and negociants
- Sells wine into every level of the food chain - has specialists for on-trade, off-trade, hotels, corner shops, supermarkets, etc.…
- It doesn’t build your brand but makes sure it gets everywhere
- Good at giving the illusion of scarcity
- Can use La Place for specific markets - La Place has expertise in the Asian markets (e.g., China, Vietnam, Japan)
- Very rare to have exclusivity for negociants
- Downsides of La Place
  - Creates a very competitive environment - low-end wines compete with each other
  - Protects Bordeaux well; merchants need to buy in bad years to get allocations in good years
  - No direct contact with consumers for wineries
  - Less effective for small guys that aren’t established brands
- Non-Bordeaux wines selling on La Place
  - Gone from nothing to 60 wines five years ago to 90 wines in 2021
  - Provides access to global markets - shows wines next to the great wines of Bordeaux
  - Opus One - the 2nd non-Bordeaux wine on La Place (after Almaviva), sold wines since 2004, opened an office in Bordeaux
    - Forced negociants to share client lists (created more transparency)
  - 1st Champagne just joined - Clos des Goisses (Philipponnat) - only 600 bottles of 1996 late release
  - No Burgundy producers (not enough volume, no need for it, and the rivalry between Burgundy and Bordeaux)
  - Barriers to joining La Place - need enough volume to get everywhere, need to do your own brand-building work, and meeting customers
  - An increase in overseas wines has hurt smaller Bordeaux estates -> negociants have limited budgets and drop them
Marketing Bordeaux - unlikely to be another 1855 like classification, St Emilion’s classification every ten years is constantly litigated, some marketing organizations:
- Pomerol Seduction - 8-10 Pomerol estates that band together
- Bordeaux Oxygen - young producers, targeting younger audiences, no longer active
En Primeur
- Due to export focus, Bordeaux always had samples shipped off overseas
- From the early 1980s, Parker injected excitement into En Primeur system
- People used to make money, and now they are often better off waiting until wines are in bottle with certain exceptions (e.g., tiny production Pomerols)
- No longer has the same sense of urgency
- Tranche system - release a small amount of wine at one price, then release more later at higher prices
- E.g., 2010 1st growths came out at €600/bottle (these people made money), final tranche at €1,200/bottle (these people lost money) -> destroyed interest in en primeur in the Chinese market
- non-Bordeaux wines price more consistently than Bordeaux wines
- Latour dropping out of en primeur
  - Said they wanted to store wines and release them when best for consumers
  - Still sold to negociants / La Place
  - Don’t1980’s know if this has worked better or not
- Chateau Palmer - sells 50% en primeur, 50% ten years later

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Library Release: Originally aired as Episode 5 in June of 2020.

In one of our original episodes, Robert and Peter discuss how competitive the wine market is, how wine scores used to differentiate wines from each other, but do that less today, and the use of wine scores has evolved over time. This episode provides another data point for the conversation around the evolution of the wine critic, as discussed in episodes 61 - 64.

Detailed Show Notes:

Wine scores were the traditional method of differentiating a wine brand
The wine landscape is getting more competitive and crowded,
- of wine brands (as of 2019):
  - 1,000 in Napa valley
  - ~4,000 in California
  - ~10,000 in the US
  - ~300,000 globally
In Luxury Wine Marketing, Peter did an analysis of 100 point scores in Robert Parker’s The Wine Advocate:
- 1995 - 14 100 pointers
- 2005 - 33
- 2015 - 116
- In 20 years, there were 8x more 100 point scores, making them less remarkable than in the past
- However, the same percentage of wines (0.4%) got 100 points in 2015 as in 1995, as 8x more wines were reviewed by The Wine Advocate
How wineries use critic scores
- In the past - wineries leveraged the followers of wine critics, gaining new customers
  - 20+ years ago, thousands of buyers would flock to wineries with a 100 point score; today, that number is in the hundreds
- Today - wineries use scores to promote and market their wines - they are used as a validation of quality, not necessarily dependant on a specific wine critic
Spinouts of wine critics
- Many critics have gone independent - Jeb Dunnuck (guest of Episode 64), Antonio Galloni (Vinous), James Suckling, Jeannie Cho Lee, Jancis Robinson - making the field more crowded than ever
- It has become harder to follow a single critic than in the past
Wineries need to build their brands
- E.g., Philippe Guigal once said, “we don’t do marketing” - and is able to do that because Guigal has already built their brand in the trade with over 20 Robert Parker 100 point scores -> this type of marketing may not be as effective today
- Brands need to have wine quality as a baseline and more than scores to sell effectively
Critics leveraging scores to promote themselves - some critics may give higher scores to be the top score that is used to promote the wine by retailers and wineries, increasing consumers awareness of their own brand and media channel
Crowdsourced scores (e.g., CellarTracker, Delectable, Vivino)
- Scores are a snapshot in time and will change over time
- It gives the ability to follow individuals and learn their palate
- Not yet influencing the wine trade (as of early 2020)
- It helps bring another touchpoint of brand awareness to wineries
- Wine Berserkers - has had an impact on wine sales, at least a few dozen signups for mailing lists of wineries Peter has worked at
Lessons for wine brands:
- Need to build the brand, having high wine quality and high scores are the baseline
- Figure out the marketing channels that work for your brand and double down on them
- The cost of customer acquisition is going up with the fracturing of wine criticism and the rise of crowdsourced wine scores

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As the wine reviewer for Burgundy for The Wine Advocate and a small producer of Burgundy himself, William Kelley has a deep and insightful perspective on Burgundy. We discuss how Burgundy became “without substitute” and why “all roads lead to Burgundy,” the rapid escalation of both vineyard and wine prices, and how what was once very contracting landholdings are now consolidating again. History, economics, geology, and terroir all come together in this episode of XChateau!

Detailed Show Notes:

Listen to the beginning of Episode 62 for background information on William
Burgundy as vignerons vs Bordelais châteaux
- William believes this is an illusion - historically, Burgundy vineyards were owned by the nobility and the church
- Today - LVMH, AXA, and rich, wealthy people own many of the domaines and vineyards
- Bordeaux outside the Cru Classe are much more modest in nature
- The French land reforms of 1792 (during the French Revolution) broke up large tracts of land -> led to a “morcellation of parcels”
  - Led to emphasis on each small parcel of land and its impact
  - Created the ability to see the human element of winemaking (two people making the wine from the same vineyard) and the human impact on terroir
- Metayage system - born in Beaujolais, a form of “sharecropping” where people take half the fruit in exchange for farming the land, popular in Burgundy where people own small parcels of land and often don’t live there
- High death/inheritance taxes, which are assessed based on the value of the land lead to more vineyard sales and end up with more consolidation of land holdings, particularly into businesses that don’t have to pay death taxes
Burgundy as the top global winegrowing region
- The wines are good/high quality
- They pair well with a lot of food and are very versatile (vs. the Medoc)
- Are a social signifier - wine collectors can “one-up” others by mastering the complexities of Burgundy more than Bordeaux or any other region
- Grand Cru vineyards are tiny and limited - sends the prices skyrocketing (e.g., Domaine d’Auvenay Aligote now sells for $2,500 / bottle)
- Bordeaux mismanaged the emerging market of China with the 2010 en primeur pricing, similar to what Hennessy and Cognac did in China, destroying the market
Value of Burgundy land
- High prices partially driven by tax write-offs for any losses, owners get the wine lifestyle “for free”
- Believes land prices and wine prices will continue to escalate
- Disconnection between land and wine prices
- In the 17th century, there used to be a saying that the value of a vineyard should equal 3 years of production - this is way different today
- E.g., a famous Chablis producer’s Les Clos magnum sells at €80 from the domaine, but $2,000 in the US -> lots of other people making money on the wine outside of the winery
- “No end in sight” to price increases for Burgundy, wine is still a relatively inexpensive luxury good (vs. cars, watches, etc.…)
Climate change
- Not as bad as some people think, bad weather events also occurred in the 19th century
- Today there are more viticultural techniques to combat climate change (e.g., canopy management, etc..)
- Price increases also more than offset the volume decreases
The Micro-negociant
- Purchasing fruit is expensive - ~€3-5,000 per barrel for village wines, €550-600 for Chiroubles
- If some negociants get the attention of investors, they can acquire land and become domaines
- More expensive to produce negociant wine vs. domaine wine
- Growers in Burgundy take the yield risk (the classic arrangement is negociants buy the fruit by the barrel)
- A seller’s market - need good relationships with growers, hard for outsiders to get good fruit
- Negociants have the ability to make lower appellations/vineyards more popular - e.g., Arnoud Ente Meursault La Seve du Clos is a lesser site, but Ente has elevated it
Domaine vs. Maison
- Consumers still put a lot of stock by it, but boundaries are blurring
- E.g., PYCM - started as negociant, rolled in family vineyards, but don’t state “Domaine” anywhere, the idea being that all wines are worthy of the brand
- Price should be driven by quality, not hierarchy (e.g., some Aligote more expensive than Grand Cru Puligny)
- Brand expansions can’t be diluted because of the vineyard hierarchy - the Grand Crus are still high quality and drive brand reputation
The Future of Burgundy
- Viticulture - would like to see every site in Burgundy farmed like a Grand Cru. William wants to break glass ceilings in every appellation
- Winemaking - people extracting less and less, flirting with natural wine movement, lighter, softer styles of red Burgundy more popular, longer elevage is getting more fashionable (and is rooted in history - used to do 2-3 years elevage because it was the only way to clarify the wine)
- Price escalation impacts on other wine regions - “there is no substitute (for Burgundy),” people will look further afield, but “all roads lead to Burgundy”
- Insular nature of Burgundy changing - the new generation of owners are from New York, Macau, Shanghai, and Hong Kong
- Advice to the new generation of producers - taste the great wines of the world, including older benchmark wines
- Changing leadership of domaines - though marketed as a good thing, there’s a lot of pressure for the next generation of a famous domain, and that tends towards being more conservative and listening to consultants vs. trying something new
- M&A - “everyone wants to buy as much land as they can”; don’t see a lot of people wanting to go global, there’s still ample price escalation in Burgundy

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Breaking into the US market for alcohol has always been hard. Archaic rules such as the 3-tier system and differing regulations by state make it a complex web of rules and regulations to be in compliance. The increasing consolidation of the distributor channel has made it even harder for smaller players to enter. MHW's goal is to make that simpler, giving producers the ability to enter the market and take control of their own destiny. They provide outsourced importation, distribution, and back-office / compliance services so their clients can grow and execute their sales & marketing plan. Listen in as Gabe Barkley, CEO of MHW, gives us a rundown of how they do this and how it compares to traditional importation and distribution.

Detailed Show Notes:

MHW background
- Leader in import, distribution, and back-office services for wine, spirits, and beer (beverage alcohol)
- Founded in 1934
- Objective: enable rapid growth of new producers and importers for the US and EU markets
- Plays mostly in the import and distribution tier of the 3-tier system in the US (3 tiers = producer, distributor, retailer; import being in-between producer and distributor)
- Has wholesale licenses in 4 markets - NY, NJ, CA, & FL
Gabe’s background
- Passion for wine started when he lived in Rome in college
- Worked in wine retail after college
- Left wine for consulting (Accenture, Deloitte)
- Helped Kevin Sidders launch Vinconnect (listen to E51 for details)
- Partnered w/ PE Fund post business school to partner w/ MHW (4 years ago)
MHW Core Services
- Provides the “pipes” for selling into the US and EU, does not buy and sell the wines like a traditional importer/distributor
- Main Services:
  - Certificate of Label Approval (“COLA”) - winery or client’s name on back label “imported by” not MHW
  - Register brands for sale in each market
  - Tax reporting
  - Compliance requirements
  - Logistics - pay taxes, customs clearance, duties, warehousing
  - Fulfillment of orders to wholesalers or retailers in wholesale markets
  - Invoice retailers and collect payment
- Not a single boxed service, tailor services for each market
Clients
- Theme: they want to invest in growth in the US & EU markets
- They cover wine, beer, and spirits
  - 4 years ago - 40% spirits, 40% wine, 20% beer
  - 2021 - 50% spirits, 45% wine, 5% beer
- Serves both domestic and international clients
  - Domestic - outsource compliance and logistics for <50% of a full-time employee
  - Work with more family wineries
- Early days - main clients were new entrants into the market and more spirits
- Today - shifted more to wine and larger producers - want to make sure sales & marketing investment are spent how they want it spent
- Examples:
  - Armand de Brignac (“Ace of Spades”)
  - Carolina Wine Brands
  - Jean-Louis Chave
  - Hypothetical - winery targeting NY market entry - MHW helps bring the product over, the owner comes and open accounts, MHW takes orders and fulfills accounts
  - Hypothetical - the winery has an opportunity with a large national retailer to be in 30 states - MHW brings product over and delivers to wholesalers or direct to retailer in some states
Technology ecosystem
- Internal ERP to deliver solutions to clients
- Transparency is important - client reporting dashboard that updates every 2 hours
- Order placement tool
- Other communications and self-service tools
Business Model
- Per case fee with a minimum monthly fee
- Breakeven happens ~350 cases/month or more
- Passes on direct costs of being in the market (e.g., warehousing/storage fees)
MHW Size
- Sold through platform 150M cases since mid-1995
- Helping 10,000s of products come to market
- 150 employees, rapidly hiring
- Global vision - opened EU office in 2018 - no 3-tier system, but complex tax ecosystem they help clients with
- Market size - started in a niche, but growing due to increased distributor consolidation (making it hard for wineries to break into the market), cutting out the complexity of the 3-tier system while still controlling your own destiny, providing more cost-effective solutions
- Competitors - some more tech-focused, a self-serve model; some more focused on 1 vertical (e.g., spirits or wine), MHW differentiates with a high touch service
MHW vs traditional importer / distributor
- 3 ways to enter the market
  - Do it yourself - build out back-office to support it
  - Traditional importer/distributor - lose control of how wine is sold, but get paid upfront and importer sells the wine, lose transparency into who’s buying the wine
  - MHW - strategic partner to import and fulfill the way the winery wants it to happen
- E-commerce increase enables clients to have another opportunity to get traction in the US market
Upcoming for MHW
- Develop more value-added tech solutions
- Acquired BevStrat in 2019 - provides on the ground sales support for clients

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Jeff Andrews was such a crypto fan that he built 4 crypto mining rigs in his family’s winery lab. A mini-meltdown of one of the rigs didn’t diminish his enthusiasm, making it a no-brainer for Trothe, the new winery based on the best blocks of the 1,300 acres of the Andrews Family Vineyards in the Horse Heaven Hills in Washington State, to accept crypto right out of the gate. Jeff and winemaker Ray McKee talk about their passion for crypto, the process for accepting it as payment for wine, and the benefits for customers and the winery of using crypto in this episode of XChateau.

Detailed Show Notes:

Jeff’s background
- 4th generation farmer in Horse Heaven Hills, Washington
- 1st winegrapes planted in 1980
- A lawyer by training
- Family farms 1,300 acres of vineyards (Andrew Family Vineyards)
- Exclusive source of grapes for Trothe Wines
Ray’s background
- 2nd generation winemaker in Washington
- 29 vintages in Washington in 2021, 1 in Australia
- Was the red winemaker for Chateau Ste Michelle for 10 years
Trothe
- uses the best blocks of grapes from Andrew Family Vineyards
- Trying to make the best wine possible
Crypto enthusiasts (both Jeff and Ray)
- ~2016-2017 - started investing a bit in crypto
- Built 4 mining rigs in the winery lab to mine Ethereum
- 1 mine had a mini-meltdown, which ended the experiment
Benefits of crypto for customers
- Security of transaction - more secure than credit cards
- Authenticity/provenance for ownership of the wine - creates a secure record of wine ownership with the future potential to link each bottle to an NFT
- Trothe bottles have unique identifiers and custom made holograms on them - have the potential to link to an NFT in the future
Benefits of crypto for the winery
- “Get more crypto”
- Connect w/ customers with similar interests
- Trothe can see where the wines are going in the world w/ crypto
- Some marketing benefits - positive feedback on social and via email
The crypto transaction process
- Uses Coinbase Commerce
- Puts an upper and lower bound on transactions to deal with crypto pricing fluctuations
- Currently on Vinespring e-commerce - does not yet integrate w/ crypto
- Customer needs to email / call the winery to request a crypto transaction, and then the winery sends an invoice via Coinbase Commerce
- The transaction constitutes a sale of crypto from wine buyer to the winery and a purchase of crypto by the winery for tax purposes
Crypto sales - none yet, wine has only been released for 1 month
Other wineries accepting crypto - Mondavi Sisters’ Dark Matter and Aloft Wines

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Growing up in a small town of ~700 people made Valentina Abbona, 6th generation vintner and Export and Marketing Manager for her family’s winery, Marchesi di Barolo, want to explore the world. Stints in the US, India, and China ultimately led her back to the family business and managing wine exports. Valentina talks about the history of Barolo exports, including becoming “The King of wine, wine of Kings,” how she approaches new markets, and the differences between markets around the world. Explore the world through the lens of Barolo in this episode of XChateau!

Detailed Show Notes:

Marchesi di Barolo background
- Founded by the last Marquis di Barolo Carlo Tancredi Falletti and French Noblewoman Giulia Colbert di Maulevrier
- Thomas Jefferson noted that the juice from the Barolo area had potential (which was not the same as the current dry wine)
- The Marchesa Giulia built the cellars based on the potential of the Nebbiolo grape underground in the 1800s to create a still wine
- Marchesi di Barolo, and subsequently Barolo, became the “King of wine, wine of Kings”
- Abbona family bought the estate in 1929 (Valentina’s great grandfather)
Valentina’s background
- She grew up in the town of Barolo (~700 people)
- Traveled and explored the world before coming back to the wine industry
- After 1 year in China with a consulting company, she missed the winery and wine industry and came back to work with the family
Barolo export history
- Barolo was part of the Kingdom of Savoy - the King of Savoy in Turin requested wine from Marchesa Giulia, who sent 325 barrels to the King’s Court - 1 for every day of the year except the 40 days of Lent
- Traveled to royal courts around Europe
- There is correspondence from the 1930s showing the wine went as far as Kabul and Java
Exportation of wine
- 55% of wine exported, 45% sold in Italy
- Very proud that Italy is the largest market for the wine
  - The entire portfolio is sold in Italy
- Export to >60 countries
  - A selection of wines are sold to various markets
- Top export markets - US, Germany, Norway, Denmark
  - The US has more “geeky” wine knowledge
- Asia is an emerging market - India (a historical market for Marchesi), China, Thailand, Japan
- High growth was seen in Southeast Asia (Thailand, Singapore, Hong Kong, Vietnam) - especially for the different single-vineyard wines (which is a similar trend for Barolo in general)
- The general trend for demand shifting to higher-end, single-vineyard bottlings vs. general Barolo (even in markets like Germany that historically bought more “classic” wines at the low - medium price points)
Expanding to new markets
- Strategy based on the size of the market and knowledge of the wine consumer
- E.g., Uzbekistan is a new market - “easy” as buyer contacted Marchesi
- Bigger markets, which have more diverse consumer bases - often need more education and background knowledge before market launch
- Italy tends to do things solo vs. as a group, though the local Consorzio is starting to promote the territory more
Strategy for larger markets
- Canada - each province has a different partner, particularly with the nuances of the local government monopolies
- US - one importer with local distributors for the different states; need to have a lot of regional meetings with people in each area
- Italy has >100 agents for different markets
Trade Fairs (e.g., VinItaly, Vinexpo, Prowein)
- Give an opportunity to change people’s opinions
- Can have a view of what’s happening globally in 1 day
- “Vital for our business”
- VinItaly is different because of its Italy focus - also a place to bring the wineries of the country together and connect
India
- Sold mainly through hotels
- Every region has its own dynamics and own taxes
- Average knowledge of sommeliers is very high
China
- They had no exposure to wine on a daily basis when Valentina lived there (2011)
- Living there helped her understand consumer choices and preferences but did not lead to contacts for market entry
- Discovered wine clubs, where there are people with great knowledge of wine
- Barolo/Barbaresco wines are more challenging to the Chinese palate as they don’t have fruit/sweetness that Chinese palates like
In-person vs. technology for selling wine
- Visiting in person is key to building and establishing relationships
- Technology can help maintain them
- Tool to help importers ell wine
  - “Have to have a glass of wine in hand” - makes the experience as concrete as possible
  - Sometimes brings soil samples, maps (“very useful”), video, and pictures - allow people to imagine being there and have more conversations
- For business meetings - video calls work well
- Preference for a combination of in-person and virtual tools
Wine Allocations - some single vineyard and Barolo di Barolo may run out, trying to do more scheduling and programming of allocations by country
Women in the wine industry - “always be yourself, don’t be scared of that”
The future for Marchesi di Barolo - recently purchased Cascina Bruchiata in the Rio Sordo area of Barbaresco

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Becoming a wine critic sounds like a dream for many. However, even though the cost and effort of setting up a website and putting out information have declined dramatically, doing the work of becoming a professional is no easy task - the time and effort it takes to taste and review thousands of wines a year is daunting. Jeb’s journey from aerospace engineer to reviewer of The Wine Advocate to being the Editor-in-Chief of jebdunnuck.com highlights the passion required for the journey. Jeb talks about his journey, critics going independent, blind tasting, score inflation, and more, all in service of helping his subscribers make informed wine buying decisions. Another unique viewpoint on the evolution of the wine critic on XChateau!

Detailed Show Notes:

Jeb’s background
- He grew up on a farm in rural Indiana - no wine on the table
- Self-trained in wine
- He traveled through France and fell in love with wine
- He never had an epiphany wine
- Worked at Lockheed Martin in upstate New York - was an aerospace engineer for his initial career
- Did a part-time job at a wine store in Denver
- 2008 - created a website - The Rhone Report
  - Released a quarterly pdf for free for 3 years
  - Built a subscriber base for 2 years
- 2013 - Robert Parker asked him to work at The Wine Advocate (“TWA”)
  - Worked at TWA for 5 years
  - Having a chance to work with Robert Parker was key to joining
- 2017 - left TWA and started JebDunnuck.com
  - The Rhone Report reviews were morphed into JebDunnuck.com
  - Left TWA because Jeb disagreed with the direction of the new ownership, the culture changed dramatically
Wine critic vs. wine publication
- Believes the person writing the reviews is more important than the publication
- The business model of publications lean them to emphasizing the publication over the critic
- It’s up to the consumer to know their critics
JebDunnuck.com (“JD”)
- More of a “singular voice”
- He doesn’t believe in large teams of critics
- JebDunnuck.com has a small group of critics covering multiple regions each
- Jeb doesn’t pretend to be a writer as he comes from an engineering background => his goal is to help the consumer make buying decisions and find the wines they like
- Writes concise vintage reports, talks about style and structure of wines
- He doesn’t write opinion pieces, commentary, or do events
- He doesn’t take money to review wines, completely subscriber funded
- Reviews 9-12k wines/year
Critics going independent
- Believes the trend is actually towards more business-driven, team-driven critic reviews => the size of the wine world is so big that it is pushing that way
- If the critic is the most important thing for reviews, going independent is the way to do wine criticism
- Best practices for wine critic ethics
  - Don’t take money from people making the product
  - There are shades of grey - e.g., sometimes people pick up the tab at a dinner
  - Critics should pay their own way (airfare, hotels, meals, etc.…)
  - JD buys a lot of wines but could not purchase them all
- Cost of being independent
  - Website and getting information out is low now
  - But providing professional (e.g., extensive) coverage is hard and expensive (time, travel)
Blind tasting
- Jeb is a fan of blind tasting for how to approach wines
- Believes the role of the critic is more than the tasting note - it’s to provide context on the region and the producer (which can’t be done with blind tasting)
- People promoting blind tasting are taking money from the trade, so Jeb believes they have to sell their process
Impact of top scores
- Less impact today because so many great wines out there
- More great wines than ever before => lots of substitutes, even at 95+, 100 point scores
Pathway for wineries to become iconic
- Make a consistently great wine, takes time
- Need to have wines tasted and reviewed by top publications
- Need to make enough so people can try it and get exposure globally
Score inflation and compression
- “I do think scores have increased”
- Believes there’s less compression - more critics are using the whole scale (up to 100) with more highly rated wines than in the past
- The format of score presentation now gives the appearance of score inflation
  - Scores used as email marketing will only be high ones
  - Most people access scores online via a score database, sorting by the highest score vs. having to read through a printed document
  - Scores used for large reports to give delineation between wines
- 100 point wines for Jeb must have the following:
  - Hedonistic pleasure
  - Intellectual pleasure
  - Intensity of aromas and flavors
  - Age ability
  - Singularity (they stand out)
Barrel samples
- Similar to evaluating a young wine, can still be useful
- Range ratings for barrel samples are important because the scores can come out before the wines are released, giving subscribers guidance for purchasing
JD’s subscriber base
- Don’t have a lot of demographic info on subscribers
- Pretty serious about wine, mostly collectors
- ~80% US-based, so CA wines are important to them
User-generated reviews
- CellarTracker - useful because you can follow individuals
- Aggregate reviews are not useful; “0 x 100 = 0”

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Esther Mobley, Wine Critic for the San Francisco Chronicle, thought writing would be more of a passion than a career. Yet, she’s one of two full-time wine writers for newspapers in the US. Esther discusses how being at a newspaper differs from a wine magazine, the changing wine critic landscape, the impact of wine scoring, and even gives some tips for budding wine bloggers and influencers. She believes that “More voices are great” when it comes to wine writing and celebrates when there’s a new wine writer hired. A unique voice and angle in our discussion of the evolving landscape for wine critics.

Detailed Show Notes:

Esther’s background
- She went to Napa to work harvest after college (for fun)
- Worked in restaurants and wine shops
- Landed an internship at Wine Enthusiast
- She got a job at the Wine Spectator in the editorial department
- She was an English major, wanted to be a writer
Role as the SF Chron’s wine critic
- Plays both a new reporter and critic role
- News reporter - cover local news for a major industry (wine)
- Critic - look at wine through an evaluative lens
- Doesn’t score wines, writes more narrative reviews of wines
- “Wine of the Week” column - focus on one bottle of wine
The decline of newspaper wine writers
- Might be only 2 full time in the US - Eric Asimov (New York Times) & Esther
- The local newspaper business model has shifted
  - All used to have a wine columnist, and no one goes to the local newspaper now to learn about wine
  - Newspaper wine writers have evolved - more local news-oriented, provides a view on something important to the Bay Area
  - Everyone works online now
- Chronicle business model
  - Profitable and hiring a lot of people
  - Focused on subscribers vs. advertisement - would rather have fewer people read an article, but more subscribers
  - Not trying to be a national publication
Newspapers vs. magazines
- Magazines score wines, publish less frequently traditionally
- Newspapers - more news, though Wine Spectator also doing more wine news
- Differences are narrowing between the two
Wine Critic landscape
- “More voices are great”
- The barrier of entry is lower than it used to be
- A lot of people want to know “who’s the next Parker” -> probably will never be a next Parker
- More people covering niches w/in wine
- SF Chronicle / Esther - cover mostly CA wine, telling the story of Bay Area wines, enables the telling of interesting stories
Wine Influencers
- Some concern over the blurring lines between sponsored and editorial content
- Some people may feel they have made wine too democratic
- Esther believes most criticism against influencers is sexist -> influencers just doing the best to succeed in their medium
- Influencers working w/in social media algorithms to get their success
Wine Scoring
- Anecdotally hear score remain important on the wholesale level - to sell wines to restaurants / retail buyers
- “Wine of the Week” articles - have heard this does lead to some wines selling out at retail (publishes where wine is available, but sells out after it comes out online but before it hits print) -> recommendations from trusted sources still matter
- Blind tasting - if someone is scoring wine, this is the best way to do it
  - Wine Spectator - tastes blind, includes a “ringer” in every flight (a wine that the critic has scored before) to see if scores are consistent
Critics vs. Publications
- SF Chronicle makes Esther’s name more public
- The Wine Advocate invested more in the personal name of critics vs. Wine Spectator less so
- Average consumers don’t know the difference between wine critics and their palates
Stories that are interesting to Esther
- “Things that don’t make sense on their face”
- E.g., Andy Beckstoffer giving away grapes for free from a Lake County vineyard
  - Renaissance Winery in Sierra Foothills - a doomsday cult that craft a world-class wine
Advice to wine bloggers/influencers
- Read a lot of good, non-wine writing (e.g., The New Yorker, The Atlantic)
- Don’t assume the reader has much knowledge of wine (e.g., don’t use too many technical terms, wine jargon)
User-Generated Content wine forums (e.g., CellarTracker, Vivino)
- Wine Berserkers - “it’s its own thing,” like a Reddit for wine, very knowledgeable people on it
- In beer, e.g., Untappd, Rate Beer - are taken more seriously than wine
- General problem - no one’s figured out how to talk about wine on the internet

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The retirement of Robert Parker marked a major change in the role of the wine critic that had been building over time. William Kelley, Reviewer of Burgundy, Champagne, English Sparkling, and Madeira for The Wine Advocate (“TWA”), gives us his thoughts on how the wine critic landscape is changing and why, the impact wine critics have on the market, and the role of TWA. Dig deep into the mind of a wine critic on this episode of XChateau.

Detailed Show Notes:

William’s background
- He ran a tasting group at Oxford for 3 years
- He was initially planning on becoming an academic
- He ended up working a harvest in California in 2015
- Makes wine - Chenin Blanc in California (beginning in 2015), in Chambolle Musigny (beginning in 2018)
- Pitched a piece to Decanter and ended up becoming the North American and Burgundy editor
- 2019 - got a call from The Wine Advocate (“TWA”) and became a reviewer there
- Currently researching a book on Burgundy that would not be an encyclopedia-style of book
The evolving role of the wine critic
- Two main trends changing the role of the wine critic
  - The scale of the wine world is bigger, and no one can taste everything anymore (which was possible when Robert Parker started) -> creates the need for more reviewers, more specialization, and critics living in the regions they cover
  - The explosion of the value of fine wine - most people can’t afford luxury wines today, this makes reviewers of high-end wines dependent on the producers, whereas Parker used to buy the wines and retain the consumer perspective
- More small niches are being created in wine media
  - Subscription models are still doing well (including at TWA)
  - Lifestyle writing is moving beyond the aspirational and anchored more in reality
- Most wine media jobs are occupied by people who’ve been doing it for a long time (little mobility, ability for new voices to come up)
  - Many people in wine media don’t make enough to make a living
  - People doing blogs are likely to go to mainstream media as people begin to retire
- Critic influence
  - Consumers spending a lot of money on wine still care which critics score the wines
  - Retailers generally show the highest scores, regardless of who the critic is
  - Strong/historic brands are “immune” to critic criticism
  - High scores (e.g. - 100 points) still matter
    - Cedric Bouchard - gave a 2008 100 points
      - He wanted to show there’s no glass ceiling for wines
      - This gave Bouchard feedback and recognition for his growing practices, which were counter the Champagne norm
    - Egly-Ouriet, already an established top grower Champagne, said his business increased 33% after getting 100 points
    - 100 point scores can be a disruptor of the traditional hierarchy
- The business model issue with wine media - critics sell the wine but don’t get a stake in the profit
TWA’s role in the wine world
- Scores are needed in the industry to sell wine
- TWA has become like the “Standard & Poor’s” of the wine world
- Parker also sold a lifestyle - he had charisma, led a lifestyle of opening great wines and at well, including at events with clients
- Recently launched new sustainability features
  - A filter for organic and biodynamic wines (for all wines)
  - Nominations for producers who work sustainably in an exemplary manner (a small set of producers)
- William reviews ~5,000 wines/year and gets to choose which wines to review
Pathways to becoming an iconic brand today
- Bizot never got 100 points, still an iconic, cult brand
- Need the right confluence of market dynamics
Score inflation
- There has been some score inflation
- Score compression is a bigger problem - scores are less differentiated
- This partly has to do with how people buy wine (e.g., they only buy 90+ point wines)
New platforms that have an impact on the market
- Instagram and WeChat are platforms that move the market
- CellarTracker, Wine Berserkers are niche and don’t move the market as much

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Growing up around wine has not dimmed the passion Jacki Strum brings to her work as President of Wine Enthusiast Media. In the first of a series on the evolution of the wine critic, Jacki tells us about how Wine Enthusiast has expanded its platform from print into web, social media, podcasts, and even Tik Tok. As well as how they assess wines (blindly) as a wine critic and how those ratings are used to help people buy wine. We really get under the hood of the wine media business in this episode of XChateau!

Detailed Show Notes:

Jacki's background
- She grew up in wine (her parents founded Wine Enthusiast in the late 1970s)
- Studied wine through WSET Level 3
- Digital media in wine & spirits background
- Founded Thirsty Nest - a wine & spirits gift registry platform, media, and commerce hybrid that is part of Wine Enthusiast
Wine media in the late 1980s
- Wine Enthusiast(“WE”)magazine founded in 1988, Robert Parker wrote for WE for a while
- Wine Spectator was around, but not much else
- “French Paradox” on 60 Minutes(1991) about the health benefits of wine was the catalyst for the entire wine industry in the US, which helped the magazine take off as well
WE media platform
- Print publication - still successful
  - Did well during Covid as people were sick of screens and hard news
- Website - growing exponentially
  - Houses the entire database of wine reviews
  - Buying guide went “through the roof” during Covid due to an increase in online wine sales
  - 65% of visitors go to the website to buy wine
- Social media
  - Instagram - now the biggest platform, easy to shop, easy to comment
  - Facebook - still important, but fading vs. Instagram
  - Twitter
  - Testing Tik Tok - believes will be the future of educational content
  - Podcast - done well and testing a few other series
- Newsletter / email - still core
- Beverage Industry Enthusiast - trade/industry news grew a lot during Covid
WE company motto - “We bring wine to life”
- It plays into the journalism approach - including the lifestyle elements of wine
- Ratings help people buy wine
- Core demographic - “the curious wine consumer,” which is more of a mindset vs. an age or gender
Wine criticism and ratings
- Taste completely blind
- Taste w/in 1 region
- Advertisers have no say on ratings
- Do points still sell wine?
  - 100 points or Wine of the Year can still build a brand
  - Most ratings are a powerful tool in the marketing toolset, but just a piece of the puzzle
  - Certain critic/magazine names still carry more weight than others
  - More at the bottom of the marketing funnel - helps close the sale
  - At the top of the funnel - general brand awareness - WE builds partnerships with brands for marketing, including various content and social influencers
WE Buying Guide (ratings)
- It comes up 1st on Google, which gives it more credibility
- Review ~25,000 wines per year
Path to building a wine brand today
- Scores are still helpful and free
- Need to build out the marketing stack and figure out the storytelling - start with social media
The catalog did well during Covid - people needed wine storage, upgraded glassware, etc.…
Return on ad spend with WE
- Partners wanted to get closer to the sale, have become more ROI driven
- Implemented digital shopping carts to track purchases
- Key metrics for ROAS (return on ad spend)
  - Email acquisition
  - Wine sales
  - Impressions
- Podcasts - can use discount codes to track the impact
  - The natural feeling of podcasts make an ad feel more real
- Webinars did well for email acquisition
- Any campaigns that boosted DTC sales or signups did well
- Digital advertising has grown a lot during Covid
- Lots of influencer marketing - leverage 40 Under 40 contacts, usually people WE has written about
- Often custom build ad partnership plans with clients
- WE Catalog provides the richest database in the industry to create good ad targeting

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Natalie MacLean, a podcaster and writer based in Ottawa, Canada, has been bringing people into her wine world for over 20 years. With two books, a newsletter with over 300,000 subscribers, a mobile app, and the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, Natalie’s main focus is on perfecting her food and wine pairing courses - The Wine Smart Course and an upcoming course on wine and cheese. Natalie tells us about how she built her personal brand, the most effective marketing channels she’s used, and where her primary revenue drivers are. If you’re interested in navigating how to be successful in the world of wine, Natalie’s journey provides key insights.

Detailed Show Notes:

Natalie’s background
- Has an MBA, did consumer packaged goods (“CPG”) marketing at P&G and tech
- She took a sommelier course and fell in love with wine, as a full-bodied experience
- Started as a writer - cold-called editors, then wrote books, and now publishes a podcast - Unreserved Wine Talk
- She didn’t drink alcohol until she was in her late 20’s
- Brunello was the wine that got her into wine
Current focus - online food and wine pairing courses
- Focused on 2 courses only - believes in doubling down on the Unique Selling Proposition (“USP”), wants to perfect courses vs. add more
- 1 - The Wine Smart Course
  - Lifetime access to materials
  - 5 modules
  - Pre-recorded videos (on-demand, all “snackable” - 7-9 minutes in length, 70-75 videos)
  - Live webinars via Zoom - bi-weekly tastings
- 2 - Beta: Wine & Cheese Pairing
- Appeals to both consumers and hospitality and trade professionals b/c of the focus on food and wine pairing
- It starts with food, then pairs the wine
- Leverages some research from Tim Hanni, MW
- Free wine and food pairing guide
Core audience - vast, similar to the general population
Newsletter / website
- 300k email subscribers - free to join, C$3/mo for access to wine reviews
- Has pairing tips (more depth in courses), a lot of free videos
- It started as an email to friends and family
- Uses LCBO pricing
Wine scores
- People use them as a shorthand for quality, to calculate the quality to price ratio (“QPR”)
- People requested it, and now it’s a service for readers
- Passion is writing
Mobile app
- Free to download
- Scans front label and bar codes
- Integrated liquor store pricing and inventory across the country (Canada) via API’s to provincial liquor control boards
- Features - virtual cellar, wishlist, buy lists
US wines in Canada
- CA, WA, OR, NY well represented
- 1 export market for US wines
- During Covid - premium wines (C$20+) have done well, benefiting US wines
Canadian wine palate - driven more towards cool climate wines, Canada’s heritage is beer and whiskey
Marketing Natalie’s brand
- Built over 20 years, started the website in 2000
- Started with the books (Red, White, and Drunk All Over; Unquenchable) - published by Randomhouse, book tour, Amazon’s bestseller list - led to broad reach and TV and other media appearances and “exploded” newsletter subscribers
- Podcast a core channel now
  - Podcast listeners stay with you, and most listen 80-100% through
  - Podcast listeners and paid online courses have the strongest overlap
- Leverage and cross-purpose content to broaden the reach to many channels
  - Podcast videos for FB Live
- Social media - gets people over to newsletter or free wine and food pairing guide, low commitment, usually not paying
- Nothing beats email
- Always strives to deliver value first - drive to something free (e.g., free class/webinar), then promotes paid courses
Main revenue drivers
- 1 - online courses
- 2 - wine review subscriptions
- 3 - online advertising

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Unquenchable!: A Tipsy Quest for the World's Best Bargain Wines

Red, White, and Drunk All Over: A Wine-Soaked Journey from Grape to Glass

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Getting at the heart of what consumers want is essential for any business, but a vastly understudied area in the world of fine wine. Pauline Vicard, Executive Director of ARENI Global, follows up her interview on Episode 28 and shares with us their latest research on the fine wine consumer - “The Future of Fine Wine Consumers 2021.” We explore the role of fine wine merchants, how and why consumers buy fine wine, and the key attributes of fine wine brands. The work covers the US, UK, China, and Hong Kong, and we discover the differences between consumers in each location. We even touch on diversity and inclusion in the fine wine world. An impactful, cornerstone interview to better understand the mindset of the fine wine consumer, a must listen!

Detailed Show Notes:

Pauline was the guest of Episode 28, where she shared findings from the 2019 research on the Fine Wine Consumer
ARENI Global background
- ARENI is a global research and action institute dedicated to the future of Fine Wine. Creating conversation platforms for the Fine Wine ecosystem, ARENI brings together critical thinkers, from iconic Fine Wine producers to leading academics and business leaders, resulting in a well-researched, global and multi-disciplinary approach to a world undergoing change.
- ARENI studies six main forces of change and regularly publishes on:
  - The Fine Wine Consumer: A Customer-Centric Approach
  - Changing Societies: Fine Wine Evolving Social framework
  - The Digital Economy and Transformative technology
  - Access to market: Towards new commercial routes
  - Sustainability 2.0: Acting now, thinking long term
  - Money: An Essential Force of Conflict
- Wants to break traditional silos to share information and collaborate, including with other industries
- Organizes think tank platforms and conducts research studies
- ARENI publishes a bi-monthly, free newsletter. To keep in touch with their research, publications, and events, sign up.
Fine Wine Consumer Research
- 2019 - was more qualitative research
- 2020 - “The Future of Fine Wine Consumers 2021”
  - more quantitative research
  - Studied fine wine consumers in the US, UK, China, and Hong Kong
Definition of Fine Wine
- Complex, balanced, potential to age
- Produces emotions, reflects the winemaker’s intentions
- Environmentally, socially, and financially sustainable (new part of the definition)
- Price is not in the definition but used price brackets from La Place de Bordeaux for quantitative studies (€30+, €150+, €450+)
Consumers perceptions of fine wine
- Perceive it more as brands/chateaux
- The average fine wine consumer can name 2.5 wineries, most common ones - Lafite, Latour, and Petrus
- Does not associate fine wine as much with country, grape variety, or type of wine
- US consumers >35 know more brands than those <35
Fine wine merchants
- Consumers very loyal to merchants, but not exclusive, tend to source from several
- Have high expectations of merchants, want them to bring a diversity of wines and recommend new things
- Key attributes: high customer service, pristine condition of wines, guarantee against fraud, want access to allocations and exclusive events, and easy delivery
- Want access to the merchant through diverse communication channels but still have the human/personal touch
How consumers choose a fine wine
- 1 - vintage (UK, China, Hong Kong)
- Burgundy buyers use both vintage and producer
- Scores are still important, but most people don’t follow specific critics or guide books, but they still use the scores as validation of the quality of the wine
- Price is not a key driver
- 3 factor - grape variety
- The reputation of the brand and winery important
- Least important factor - celebrity or influencer recommendations
Storytelling
- Not as important as was expected, the wine’s story is not relevant for every fine wine consumer
- Some want wines because of their status or what tastes the best
Why consumers buy fine wine
- Intimate consumption was bigger than expected - wine as a treat for self and/or partner (US, UK)
- Special occasions, formal social events (Hong Kong, China)
- Gifting (China)
- Formal wine tastings (UK)
- Business occasions (China)
- Food and wine pairing (particularly in China)
Fine Wine Consumer demographics
- UK/US - 70% men, 30% women
- China/Hong Kong - 50% men, 50% women
- Women want to buy luxury
- Millennial women are an important market
- More young consumers (<35)
Fine wine investors
- Non-collectors that invest mostly go through a 3rd party
- Look at it as another financial asset, rarely take ownership of wine
Top attributes for fine wine brands
- 1 - the capacity to age as wine evolves with time
- 2 - high ratings from wine critics (the UK the lowest for this)
- The reputation of a region of origin and producer
- UK/US - complexity of taste
- China/Hong Kong - scarcity important
- Don’t really think of sustainability - assume wine is sustainable
- Trade does think of sustainability - they are gatekeepers for consumers
Diversity and inclusion
- “Fine wine is whiteness” was discovered in research - references to colonial terms for many countries (e.g., India, US)
- The industry has little to lose by having more diversity
- Diversity issues and systemic difficulties are different for different countries
- China - diversity more focused on gender vs. race
To access the full report, become a member of ARENI.
For more information: pauline@areni.global

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Part two of our interview with Damien Wilson, Hamel Family Chair of Wine Business at Sonoma State University, focuses on what wineries can do to align their brand, marketing messages, and how they sell wine to Millennials. From hospitality to various marketing channels, with social media, Damien provides examples of what works and tips on what to do. This episode also includes a “lightning round” where Damien and Peter discuss some of the major trends in wine marketing.

Detailed Show Notes:

Millennial Wine Buying - tips for wineries
- Limits on brand loyalty/retention mean wineries need to make more customer acquisition
- High price points will put off younger consumers
- Low-end wine brands (e.g., Charles Shaw) are not targeting Millennials well - they appear to be more about consumption (e.g., Carlo Rossi jug wine, Bag in a Box brand) vs. Millennial values
- Seltzer likely hitting a peak as the category is starting to fracture and fragment with many new brands and brand extensions
Hospitality best practices
- We need to be better at the digital era
- Wine industry good at talking about the product and quality (e.g., winemaking, terroir, product characteristics) but needs to know how to get people to the glass before what’s in the glass
- Responses from wineries on social media are very slow or unresponsive
  - Good examples
    - Jason Haas of Tablas Creek in Paso Robles - very responsive, got back to Damien in 10 minutes of tagging, Jason responds himself
    - Nicole Rolet of Chene Bleu
    - Randall Graham - remains relevant but admits to not figuring out how to make money from social media
    - Macrostie - has 12 different locations in their facility with different experiences - creates a reason for people to come back
  - Tagged 27 wineries on a trip to Paso Robles, and only 2 got back to him (1 of which was Tablas Creek)
  - Automated monitoring can help - so people get notified when activity occurs
Millennials have a strong attachment to people behind the brands and ones that reflect their values
Millennials ask questions, and they will tell you what they like
Marketing channels that work
- Social media
- Retail with smaller producers/experiences (e.g., Whole Foods showcases smaller producers and is more experiential shopping)
Marketing Lightning Round w/ Damien and Peter
- Augmented Reality - “brilliant” according to Damien, cost of adoption is falling, e.g., 19 Crimes and Snoop Dog Rose
- Natural / “Clean” wines - a way to premiumize lower-end wines with marketing; natural wine suffers from lack of consistency, making it harder to adopt; Clean wines - unsure if success is related to clean or celebrities that back them
- Low/No Alcohol / No sugar wines - could work if they get people into the wine category, likely more a niche long-term
- Celebrity wines - will likely grow but needs to be authentic - e.g., Kim Kardashian was behind a vodka brand but didn’t drink, which turned people off of the brand

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With values and attitudes formed around the turn of the 21st century, Millennials want fulfilling careers, are more into environmental and social causes, and grew up in the social media era. Damien Wilson, Hamel Family Chair of Wine Business at Sonoma State University, explains who Millennials are, what drives their buying habits, and the brand loyalty of the group. This is the first part of a two-part series on marketing to Millennials.

Detailed Show Notes:

Damien’s background
- Mid 1980’s - worked in grocery retail in wine & spirits
- Early 1990’s - worked in hospitality as a wine steward
- Mid 1990’s
  - wine sales rep
  - Completed 4 degrees in the wine business
- 2007 - left the University of South Australia and Australia overall with a Ph.D. in Wine Business
- Research areas include:
  - History and usage of screw caps and natural cork
  - Consumer behavior - consumption patterns that lead to wine consumption
  - Digital marketing, tourism
Defining Millennials
- Generational cohorts - they may change their name as certain experiences become the dominant characteristic of their values
  - Each cohort is distinct because of their experiences, which have information and directive influences
  - E.g., Silent (formerly Great) Generation - values were set during war years
    - Baby Boomers - the boom in population growth post-war
    - Gen X (used to be called latch key generation)
    - Gen Z (1997 onwards) - have no real memory of September 11th (2001), were initially called the “i -generation” because they were attached to their iPhones
- Millennials
  - Originally set from the late ’70s (as early as 1976) to the early 80s birth years
  - Current definition (from Pew Research Center and Brookings Institute) - 1981 - 1996
  - Attitudes and values formed during the decades around the turn of the 21st century (1990s-2000s)
Millennial Values and Attitudes
- Want a fulfilling career vs. a stable or secure career
- Exhibit stronger support for social and environmental issues
- Have the largest perceptual gap of their long-term vision vs. their initial reality - they had huge expectations of adulthood and were hit with reality (you start at the bottom) and the Global Financial Crisis
- Lived in the social media era - see the extremes (people curated perfect lives)
Millennial Wine Buying
- Wine buying is tightly correlated with economic status
- Generational buying
  - Silent Generation - marked by frugality, drank less wine because it was more expensive
  - Baby Boomers - expressed interest in wine and shares with others, have been the driver behind the recent success of the wine industry, wine as a relatively inexpensive way to show success and luxury (e.g., Silver Oak success)
  - Gen X - eschews traditional brands, tried different things (e.g., led to the Rhone Rangers movement)
  - Millennials -
    - focus more on enjoyment and the collective vision of what wine means for their generation
    - want individualism, but also consume brands that are more representative of their group
    - Humor, innovative approaches, bohemian, off-kilter brands can be successful
    - Willing to accept something that reflects values and intent, even if not total wine specific, whereas the prior generation was more focused on the wine itself)
    - Receptive to sales and marketing messages as long as it is authentic to the brand
- Buying pattern formative period in teen and early adult years, particularly for aesthetic consumption and will likely persist over time
- Millennial brand loyalty
  - Brand loyalty starts with awareness - awareness of anything trumps lack of awareness which makes consumers start with a degree of brand loyalty
  - The pattern is repeated until people gain more comfort with products and they move to brand extensions
  - New wine consumers (e.g., Millennials) are still new to the category, still just learning what wine is
  - Proud of and support brands that support them (e.g., Supreme - streetwear); wines they drink are wines that support them and have brand loyalty to them (e.g., Buena Vista, Chateau Diana)
  - Perception of brand loyalty may be due to low wine club signup rate
- Millennial wine spending habits
  - Spend 2x more than the grocery store average on wine
  - Highest spend per unit of any generation (high $20s - low $30s/bottle)
  - $10-15/bottle is the sweet spot in grocery/retail
- Awareness key to buying wine
  - Napa has the greatest awareness of any US wine-growing region, which helps
  - Iconic wines to still do well due to brand awareness

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One of the world’s leading grape geneticists, Carole Meredith, Professor Emerita of UC Davis and owner of Lagier Meredith winery, has spent decades identifying and profiling grape varieties. It was so interesting that the interview has been split into two episodes. Episode 55 covers the background of Ampelography and DNA profiling as well as the definitions of key terms such as variety, clone, and hybrid. In addition, this episode features the stories of how she uncovered the history of Zinfandel (aka - Primitivo, Crljenak Kaštelanski, and Tribidrag) with Croatian researchers and how wineries use DNA profiling in wine marketing.

Detailed Show Notes:

Discovering Zinfandel
- Zinfandel has a long history in California. People assumed it was a native California grape, but it is a Vitis Vinifera, so it must come from Europe
- People suspected Croatia, but no evidence
- In the 1970’s - people noticed that Primitivo in Italy’s Puglia looked like Zinfandel, and it was confirmed they are the same grape variety
- Italians said the grape is not Italian and came from Dalmatia (modern-day Croatia)
- Croatia
  - They looked at Plavac Mali - a popular red grape in Croatia. It looks similar to Zinfandel, but is not the same, but related
  - Mike Grgich of Grgich Hills Winery made some introductions to Croatia, but those were dead ends
  - 1997 - Ivan Pejic of the University of Zagreb reached out and wanted to understand Croatian grapes better
  - After 3 years of gathering samples, they found it in a Croatian mixed vineyard (a grape named Crljenak Kaštelanski)
  - 2001 - At the Natural History Museum in Split, Croatia - found a specimen called Tribidrag that looked like Zinfandel
  - Tribidrag was an important grape as far back as the 1300s
  - 2011 - Croatian research group was able to extract DNA from dead leaves in the Split museum and confirm it was Zinfandel
  - Proves Zinfandel is an ancient grape with historical importance
Tribidrag is not an approved varietal name for wine in the US. Lagier Meredith uses it as a fanciful name for their label
- Lagier Meredith sells mostly to their mailing list so that they can explain the history and the name to their customers
- Ridge calls a wine Tribidrag, growing vines from Croatian cuttings, and wants to partner with Carole to get TTB to have Primitivo and Tribidrag as Zinfandel synonyms
US TTB shows Zinfandel and Primitivo as separate varieties
- California Zinfandel producers opposed having Primitivo be a synonym because they didn’t want competition from lots of cheap Italian Primitivo
- EU wine label regulations list Zinfandel and Primitivo as synonyms
- 2004 - US & EU sign an agreement on wine labeling to respect each other's laws, so now Italians can label their wines Zinfandel and export them to the US
DNA typing - business impacts
- It has been a boost for Croatian producers, put them on the map, and now a wine tourism destination with people even visiting the vineyard where Zinfandel was discovered
- Mostly done out of research institutions
- Foundation Plant Services at UC Davis has a commercial DNA typing service - costs ~$300 / sample
Some producers (e.g., Schrader) use clones on labels - used as a distinction, helps to tell the story for marketing

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One of the world’s leading grape geneticists, Carole Meredith, Professor Emerita of UC Davis, and owner of Lagier Meredith winery, has spent decades identifying and profiling grape varieties. It was so interesting that the interview has been split into two episodes, this one about the background of Ampelography and DNA profiling as well as the definitions of key terms such as variety, clone, and hybrid. The second episode features how she uncovered the history of Zinfandel and how wineries use DNA profiling in wine marketing.

Detailed Show Notes:

Carole’s background
- Worked part-time at a retail nursery, got into plant genetics, and wanted to be a flower breeder
- Changed to doing a Ph.D. on tomato genetics at UC Davis
- Worked in biotech for a few years on cotton, corn, and soybeans
- She went into grapes because a position opened up at UC Davis
Ampelography - the study of grape identification before DNA testing
- Grape varieties identified by their leaves, which vary distinctly, not by their fruit, which look similar
- Before DNA testing, outside experts in Ampelography would often disagree with each other on grape identification
- The upside of ampelography is that it’s very fast. Today grapes are usually first identified by ampelography and then confirmed with DNA testing
DNA testing for grapes
- Started ~1991
- Looks at segments of DNA to look at specific markers
- Need a minimum of 6 markers to identify a variety and more to establish variety parentage
- Vitis Microsatellite Consortium - a group of academics that came together to develop DNA markers for grapes
  - In 1-2 years, developed 100s of markers
Grape variety definition - used differently in trade or by scientists
- Trade definition - grapes that make different wines (e.g., Pinot Noir and Pinot Gris) are different varieties
- Scientific definition - a cultivated variety that goes back to a single seedling, scientifically, Pinot Noir and Pinot Gris are clonal variants of a single variety
Clones - variations within a variety
- Clones are subtypes that have developed over time
- Usually have something to do with the fruit (e.g., color variants like Traminer vs. Gewurztraminer, Pinot Noir/Blanc/Gris)
- Clones arise through somatic mutations of the variety
  - Older the variety (e.g., Pinot, Syrah) - more likely to have more clones
  - Young varieties (e.g., Cabernet Sauvignon) have fewer clones (<400 years old, likely a natural seedling in the early 1700s, and likely singled out to do late budding, which provided spring frost protection)
  - Some varietals (e.g., Pinot) are more likely to have mutations
- People need to notice a difference (e.g., looser clusters which can have less bunch rot, early ripening, which avoids rainfall during harvest, or higher sugar levels for grapes like Riesling in cooler areas) and be preferentially chosen to plant new vineyards
- ENTAV - an institution in France that systematically identifies and registers clones
- In Chile, Jean-Michel Boursiquot, one of the world’s top ampelographers, identified that Chileans were calling Carmenere Merlot
Grape Families
- A term with no scientific meaning
- E.g., Muscat - “muscat” is a type of flavor; all current varieties likely descendants of a couple of ancient varieties
- Every variety is descended from 2 parent varieties
Hybrids
- Genetic/scientific definition of a hybrid is an offspring of 2 different parents of the same OR different species (e.g., Cabernet Sauvignon is technically a hybrid of Cabernet Franc and Sauvignon Blanc)
- Interspecific hybrid or cross is an offspring of parents from different species (e.g., hybrids of American and European grape varieties used to try and combat phylloxera)

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Laura Catena, Managing Director of Catena Zapata, Founder of the Catena Institute, and Owner of Luca Winery, used to frequently get asked, “What’s next for Argentina after Malbec.” While Argentina has diversity in wine, its core calling card, quality, and diversity can also reside in Malbec. From storied beginnings to becoming a new classic, Laura shares with us the stories of the history of Malbec, how Argentina and the Catena family have elevated it with tastings, books, and scientific research, and how the future of Argentina is truly...Malbec.

Detailed Show Notes:

Laura’s background
- BA Biology from Harvard, MD from Stanford, also studied French
- She grew up in the vineyards in Argentina, went to high school in the US
- She wanted to help people, so she went into medicine, specifically emergency medicine
- Nicknamed “La Lucita” by her grandfather for never standing still
- ER doctors have shifts that enable other hobbies or careers, thus working both in medicine and wine
The History of Malbec
- A background in French enabled Laura to read French historical documents about Malbec
- Malbec was known in Roman times, w/ Cahors the main area
- Cahors drunk by Eleanor of Aquitaine who married King Henry II, making the wine popular in the UK as well
- In Bordeaux, Malbec was very popular, used to make Cabernet Sauvignon smooth and ripened at the same time as Cabernet, vs. the earlier ripening Merlot
- After phylloxera, gets replaced by Merlot
- Saved in Argentina, where there was no phylloxera
- It was being pulled out in Argentina due to low yields (prone to coulure) when Nicolas Catena started to do something with the variety
- The breakthrough moment in 1999 - a Wall Street Journal article about Malbec started to change things, Catena was noted as the top wine
- Malbec gives different flavors from different regions
  - Salta - jammy, syrupy
  - Patagonia - spicy, herbal
  - Adrianna Vineyard - some are big and tannic, others more like Pinot Noir
Flying Winemakers in Argentina
- Paul Hobbs, Michel Rolland, and others came and helped with changes to the winery (fermentation, oak barrel usage, etc.…)
- But soils and altitude were unique and different, which required new study, leading to the founding of the Catena Institute
Promoting Malbec
- Catena Malbec Argentino label - tells the history of Malbec through 4 women (including phylloxera)
- Catena Zapata
  - Initially made Cabernet and Chardonnay for export (1990-1991 vintages)
  - 1st Catena Malbec was 1994 vintage
  - Did lots of blind tastings, Laura’s mom went to stores and bought the best wine and blind tasted Chardonnays, claiming that every time, Catena won
  - By the time Malbec was introduced, the Catena brand was already known for its quality
  - The initial key market of the domestic Argentina market - provided income to support the cost of building up exports
- Books
  - Vino Argentino - wanted an English book to highlight Argentina
  - Gold in the Vineyards - talks about special sites globally, shows concept via illustration to make it more engaging
  - A new book to be published on the history of malbec
- Believes in not telling too many stories at once and making it interesting, usually for 1-3 years
  - Malbec Argentino - created a 20 min theatrical play of the story, hired a UK actress to perform
  - Current discussion - “Let’s Talk about Grand Cru and Gran Vins” - discussion of Catena parcella wines with Pinot Noir and Nicolas Catena with Bordeaux or Napa Cab, with Larry Stone MS
Catena Institute
- Shares all research for the benefit of everyone in Argentina
- Established to solve a specific problem: how to elevate Argentina’s wines
- Publish all work - must be of high quality for peer reviews, wanted to share it, and made other institutes want to do research together
- Recent Study: Proof of Terroir through Malbec
  - It looked at 24 sites in Mendoza
  - 50% of the sites have a fingerprint that is identifiable (via 10 different anthocyanins and 20 different polyphenols)
  - Shows proof of terroir and that some terroir is more identifiable than others -> showcasing the meaning behind “Grand Cru sites”
Making Malbec collectible
- Need to be patient
- Need to do a lot of tastings
- Ratings are important
- Tourism is also important - building a new hospitality center at Catena, want it to be the best experience in the world, something people will travel for

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Gold in the Vineyards: Illustrated stories of the world's most celebrated vineyards

Vino Argentino: An Insider's Guide to the Wines and Wine Country of Argentina

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“The last frontier of Europe,” “A pristine region,” “A mosaic of soil varieties and temperatures” are all ways João Gomes de Silva, Board Member of Sogrape, describes the Alentejo wine region. João tells us about the evolution of Portugal’s wine industry, the complexity of the Alentejo wine region, and how the industry has been promoting and building the brand of Alentejo wine. From “seasoning” to amphora, there’s plenty to get excited about with Alentejo and its wines!

Detailed Show Notes:

João’s background
- Family is in agriculture and farming
- João is a wine lover
- Worked in food retailing
- Lived in Italy and Latin America
Sogrape background
- Founded in 1942 by Fernando van Zeller Guedes and launched with Mateus Rose
- A family business where they work as a professional team
- Combination of concept wines (e.g. - Mateus) and fine wine estates (e.g. - Barca Velha, Sandeman)
- Mateus Rose - Sogrape’s founder said it had to stand out
  - Unique bottle shape - shaped after WWI cantil (soldiers’ water bottles)
  - The label has a picture of a manor house in North of Portugal, which was to look like a French chateau
Portuguese Wine History
- Early-mid 1990’s - Portugal joined the EU, lots of investment in the wine industry and a surge in domestic demand
- 2005-2010 era - a lot of modernization happened in the wine industry
- 2010+ - a boom in tourism in Portugal led to a boom in demand for Portuguese wine
- Covid - demand for Portuguese wines did not dip
Alentejo as a wine region
- South of Lisbon, between Lisbon and the Algarve (a beach area popular for tourists)
- The same size as the state of Maryland, but with only 700,000 people - a sparsely populated farming area
- One of the last areas dominated by the Moors (until the 13th century)
- Traditionally the breadbasket of Portugal, lots of cereal, grain growing
- Dry, warm climate (>100F in summer)
- During Roman times, made wine in clay amphora to preserve temperature during fermentation
- 8 sub-regions
  - Portalegre - north part of the region, the influence of the mountains (a colder, wet climate)
  - Eastern area near Spanish border - very dry, arid, pre-phylloxera vineyards
- A mosaic of soil types, climates, and grape varieties
- The notion of “seasoning” important in the region (e.g., using small amounts of different grapes varieties to blend)
- Grape varieties - a mix of traditional and international
  - Traditional - Aragones (Tempranillo), Trincadera, Moretto, Arinto, Tourigal National
  - International - Syrah, Alicante Bouschet - the star of the region
- Vinho de Talha - wine made in the traditional Roman way in clay amphora, the only region in Portugal that has this regulation
- Wine style - fruit-forward, rounded tannins
- Current consumers - wine explorers and hedonists who know what they like
Alentejo Wine Consumption
- Domestic - 80%
- Export - 20%
  - Brazil - 30%
  - US, France, Poland, Switzerland - ~10% each
  - Canada, UK, Angola, China - ~5% each
- Entry-level pricing ~$7-9 USD
- The sweet spot is ~$20 USD to really show terroir
Marketing messages
- A unique, single message (especially for US/UK markets) - “taste of the last frontier of European wine,” a pristine region
- Brazil - talk more about individual producers as people already know Alentejo
- Journalists / somms - talk more about winemaking techniques, bringing people to Portugal
- Consumers - the experience at the estate or virtually tends to grab them
- Broad / “Generic” promotion - through Wines of Portugal and CVRA (Alentejo region wine marketing body)
  - Invests in trade fairs (e.g., Prowein, Vinexpo) which help
- Herdade do Peso - invests in social media
- Being closer to the distributor (and owning them) helps - has been important to the success of brands
Herdade do Peso, a Sogrape winery
- Sogrape’s founder believed he could change the Alentejo industry
- Introduced Alicante Bouschet to the region, blended it with Touriga Nacional
- “A mix of man’s ingenuity, dream of a family, and the natural conditions found there”
- 16 soil types, 160ha of vineyards
- Use clay amphora to season wines, but no pure Vinho de Talha
- Wine positioning
  - Entry-level, single estate - ~$20 USD
  - Reserva, a blend of blocks with the best expression, can age
  - Essencia - block series, best block of each year
  - Icon - only been produced twice in 30 years, the highest expression of the grape
  - Another wine (collaborating with others) in the works
Climate change - brought back Gobelet training, new grape varieties, use water from the artificial lake to protect plants against extreme weather

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“Ura-what?, Ura-where?” Selling Uruguayan Tannat has many challenges, recognizing both the country and the signature variety not well known globally. However, Christian Wylie, General Manager of Bodega Garzón, and owner Alejandro Bulgheroni have risen to the challenge. So much so that the late, famed wine writer Steven Spurrier once said that “Garzón achieved iconic status in less than a decade.” Hear all about the journey for Garzón and Uruguayan Tannat in general on this episode of XChateau.

Detailed Show Notes:

Christian’s background
- Chilean from a British family
- Studied agricultural engineering in Chile and enology at UC Davis
- He was a hands-on winemaker for a while
- An entrepreneur with fresh herbs
- Met an Uruguayan woman and got married to her - started the connection with Uruguay
- Worked at Familia Deicas (Uruguay, 6 years), Santa Carolina Group (Chile; 11 years) - turned it around and grew it 3x
- Joined Bulgheroni Estates in 2016
  - Now has 21 wine estates in 6 countries
  - Garzon is the headquarters
Bodega Garzón Overview
- Garzón is a place in the NE part of the Maldonado province
- Bulgheroni bought land in Uruguay in 1999-2000, started with olive trees and olive oil
- 2006 - bought hills above olive trees for windmills, but Bulgeroni’s wife vetoed it
- 2007 - Alberto Antonini comes and suggests vineyards would be good
  - 34.8० S latitude - the same as Apalta in Chile, Barossa in Australia, and Stellenbosch in South Africa
- 2008 - Vineyards planted
  - ~600 acres of vineyards divided into 1,500 lots
  - 20 different grape varieties, but mainly Tannat and Albarino
  - Atlantic ocean influence
  - Granite soils vs. clay in other Uruguayan winegrowing regions
- 2016 - Winery opened
  - 5-acre building on the top of the hill
  - 1st LEED-certified winery in the world
  - ~100 euro/liter winery capacity cost to build (very high)
- ~$200M in Capex, 120k cases of wine produced
- Has a PGA tour preferred golf course
Uruguayan Wine
- 6,000 ha / ~15,000 acres planted, but mostly table wines
- Garzón represents ~20% of VCP (premium wines)
- Exports ~5-10% for most producers, Garzón exports ~67%
- 300 wineries, ~60 VCP wineries, ~25 actively exporting
- Tannat - the national grape
  - Originally from Madiran, France
  - “Survival of the Fittest” likely reason for becoming national grape in Uruguay - hot and humid climate did not do well for other dry climate European varieties, Tannat likely had better yields
  - The name comes from the tannins, has the most polyphenols (2.3-2.4x more Resveratrol than Cabernet Sauvignon)
- Traditional style - big, rustic, tannic, but easier to drink than Madiran; usually overripe fruit, heavy extraction, and lots of oak (heavy toast, American)
- Garzón Tannat - more fruity, fresh, vibrant; minimal intervention, some carbonic, cold soak, unlined cement fermentation, large vat French oak
- Other varieties: Marselan (lots in China, now an approved Bordeaux variety), Merlot
Key markets for Tannat
- Garzón - Uruguay (~40% of premium wine is Garzon), US, Brazil the three top; export to >50 countries (Nordics, Japan, UK, Canada, Netherlands other key markets; Growing markets - China, S Korea, Singapore, Russia, & Mexico)
- Uruguay in general - Brazil #1 (mostly low priced, bulk wine)
Garzón portfolio
- Estate = entry-level, mostly sold domestically
- Reserva = higher tier based on the quality of grapes, <$20 USD
- Single Vineyard = areas w/in estate, ~$30 USD
- Petite Clos = 1 specific parcel, ~$70 USD
- Balasto = top wine, ~$100 USD in the US, ~$200 in Uruguay
  - Named after the decomposed granite
  - Blend of the best reds of different parcels
  - 3rd wine from South America sold via La Place de Bordeaux
Marketing Tannat & Garzón
- “Taste first, then say what it is”
- Started Wines of Uruguay 20 years ago, but wines didn’t sell because no one had heard of it, needed to promote everybody
- Consumers - banked heavily on social media - has ~80k followers on Instagram
- Created a dynamic website
- Trade (e.g. - MS/MW) - “reverse mission” - bring them to Garzón
- PR - Glodow Nead - has brought Playboy, Architecture magazine, Robb Report, NY Times
- Wine Critics - great scores from James Suckling, Wine & Spirits, Decanter, Wine Enthusiast’s 2018 New World Winery of the Year - consumers need the 3rd party validation
- During pandemic - keeping the brand alive w/ 100s of “zooms” and webinars

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For the first time, European wineries can have direct relationships with customers, and lovers of many European wineries can consistently secure access to their favorite wines via the VinConnect platform. Founder and President, Kevin Sidders, explains how VinConnect works, tells us some of the unique, rare wines that have been offered, and all the reasons how VinConnect benefits their winery partners. Not a new way of buying wine, but bringing the American direct-to-consumer experience to European wineries.

This episode is sponsored by Sonoma State University’s Wine Executive MBA program. A 17-month, transformative program that builds leadership skills and business acumen focused on the specific needs of the world of wine. Learn more about SSU’s Wine MBA programs here. If this is something you’re considering, the next Global Wine Executive MBA session’s enrollment deadline is June 30, 2021, for courses starting in October!!

Detailed Show Notes:

Kevin’s background
- Lived in the Bay Area 25-30 years ago, discovered wine and joined mailing lists of California wineries
- Was in the finance industry
VinConnect founding - 10 years ago
- Struggled to buy and collect wines from Europe
- Was on mailing lists in California and wanted the same experience for European wines
VinConnect Customer Experience
- Just like signing up for a US mailing list
- Sign up, get offers, have wine shipped to you
- VinConnect works as an extension of the winery, a facilitator
- Key benefits
  - Convenience, consistent access - “never miss a vintage,” which Kevin experience himself with Domaine du Pegau
  - Relationship / communications direct from the winery
  - Special treatment in hospitality
  - Provenance - authentic and shipping through winery approved channels (in good condition)
  - Occasionally special goods - unique wines (including a never release bottling from Chateau Musar, formats, vintages, library wines
Logistics
- Supports planning, strategy, and pricing with wineries - wineries decide how they want to operate their program (communications, offers, etc…)
- 2 models for buying
  - Single national importer - who sells to distributors, then retailers
    - VinConnect buys from importer
  - Direct to distributors - winery may have ~30 relationships in US
    - VinConnect buys from winery directly
- Allocations - depends on the winery, some have purchase limits, some do not
- Wine Clubs - a couple wineries run clubs on the VinConnect platform
- Each winery list is separate, no cross communication
- When a new winery launches on VinConnect, all customers are notified that they have the ability to sign up - this is the only communication to all customers
Types of wineries that fit - high profile presence in US, flagship winery of their region - platform is more useful when the brand has a consumer presence
How Consumers sign up
- The winery - visits in hospitality (most European wineries haven’t been as good at this), signups via winery website, social media driving to mailing list
- VinConnect website - can sign up for all lists via the website
- Google advertising
Benefits for wineries
- They can’t do this themselves in US
- Creates communication channel with consumers
- Can create in-market events w/ consumers
- Have access to all customer data (via dashboard portal)
- 65 winery partners as of April 2021

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When Robert & Peter started the XChateau Wine Business podcast, the idea was to try and build a community around the business of wine. Part of that has been engaging with our listeners, as well as our guests. While it has happened on an ad hoc basis, we wanted to do it more proactively for our 50th Episode / One Year Anniversary. We recorded our 50th episode live on Clubhouse to have a broader interaction with former guests (Juliana Colangelo, Lauren McPhate, and Maureen Downey), other guest partners (Barb Tyree from Repour and Tess Roche from WineBid) as well as listeners. We covered topics around the current status of re-opening in the US, an update on the fine wine market, favorite episodes, and ideas for future episodes. Listen in and let us know what you think!

Special Announcement: Repour, one of our sponsors, has also created a special discount for XChateau listeners through May 21, 2021. Use the code: XChateau on the Repour website and get 20% off for both retail and wholesale orders! If you haven’t heard of Repour, find out all about it in Episode 24, where CEO Tom Lutz gives us all the details.

Detailed Show Notes:

This episode was recorded live on May 4, 2021, on the Clubhouse platform
US Covid business updates and trends
- Lots of open jobs right now, especially in hospitality, the US is recovering from Covid quickly
- Juliana Colangelo (Colangelo & Partners) - returning to normal media relations, going through a transition period with both in-person and virtual; a client is hiring a virtual tasting room manager, there will still be demand for virtual events
- Barb Tyree (Repour) - restaurants are coming back online quickly
- Nadine Brown (sommelier in DC) - retailers did well in DC during Covid, huge staffing issue in DC
Fine Wine Market update
- Lauren McPhate (Tribeca Wine Merchants) - in fine wine, people are still more adventurous with their purchases, buying new regions; the store in NYC re-opened a couple weeks ago; tariffs removed from Europe leading to buying again from Europe, but shipping is the big issue currently
- Maureen Downey (Chai Consulting) - wine collectors have drained their cellars, tariffs haven’t impacted buying at the very high end; Italian wines are trending, increased sale of counterfeits (e.g., Acker sold a counterfeit bottle of whiskey)
- Juliana Colangelo - more wineries selling back vintages from their library
- Tess Roche (WineBid) - continuing to see lots of new wine buyers on WineBid, increase of younger buyers purchasing, more mobile orders, increase in unique wines that haven’t had much auction activity in the past
- Maureen Downey - fine wine has always been bought site unseen, so online is “normal,” but people who would have bought in the grocery store before have moved online
Favorite episodes
- Ivonne Nill (listener, MW candidate) - loves specific examples for Master of Wine essays, e.g., Wine.com, Wine Australia, and Juliana Colangelo’s episode on Social Media Influencers
Future episode ideas
- Roundtable discussion on global wine trends
- Consumer-oriented brands discussing what’s working well for younger generations
- Bulk wines
- Wine buying journey of wine collectors
- Career transitions into wine
- Scoring publications and impact
- Personalization/customization of wine buying

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Focused on helping the casual wine consumer buy better wine, Vivino has spent over 10 years building its database of wines, creating a structured tastings database, and network of merchants to make buying better wine more convenient. Heini Zachariassen, founder and CEO, tells us about the journey, what Vivino is up to today, and where it’s going. A must-listen for anyone interested in wine.

Detailed Show Notes:

Heini’s background
- born in the Faroe Islands, with only ~50,000 people and no wine
- An entrepreneur into technology
- He got the idea for Vivino from “seeing a wall of wine and not knowing what to buy”
Vivino’s core challenge - buying wine is difficult. Vivino wants to help people drink better wine and know what to buy at stores through rating every single wine out there
1st slogan - “Never forget another wine” - because Vivino didn’t have the database to do more than capturing the wines
With the database, you can now say if the wine is good and what else you might like
Ratings with at least 10-20 ratings are highly correlated with expert ratings
Users -
- 50M total users
- ~20k users every day, ~10M users every month, ~20-25M active users every year (% of active relatively constant over time)
- Top 3 areas of interest for consumers - #1 ratings, #2 price, #3 what does the wine taste like
- A lot of people rate - 15-20% of scans rate the wine, 6-7% of scans review the wine
- App use is 50/50 exploring wine (out somewhere looking at wines) and drinking wines (mostly at home, but could be restaurants, etc.…)
- “Featured users” are pushed in the community. Some have 50-100k followers
- The target audience is always the casual wine drinker first
Launched taste characteristics - a structured tasting note (both wine structure and tasting profile), uses AI to get the data into the system
AI recommendations (“Match for You”) - gives a % on the wine of how likely you’ll like it, leveraging structured tasting
Marketplace
- 700 merchants on the platform, 50% in the US, from small retailers to Wine.com
- Sell in 17 countries right now
- Today only a small % (single digits) buy wines through the app - he believes there is a big upside
- Fully integrated w/ Vivino, users can use Google and Apple Pay
- Money goes directly to the merchants, Vivino bills a marketing fee
- Location matched by merchant's ability to ship to the location, the app only shows things you can buy
- Can now search for styles of wine based on structured tasting notes
- Wine sales - ~50% are pull (people looking for specific wines), ~50% are push (primarily surfacing what the app says is great value for money)
- Sales can be 1,000s of bottles to 100,000s of bottles for the launch of Post Malone’s Rose in a few days
Revenue Streams
- The marketplace is the biggest
- Sponsorships - newer revenue stream, for wineries - don’t directly push wineries, but make them look better when people come across them (e.g., show them a video when they scan the wine), provide data analytics to the wineries (based on Looker connecting to Vivino data), do campaign follow up (e.g., get an email about the brand after drinking the wine)
- No ads - always want to show what Vivino thinks is the best wine for you
Recently raised $155M round D (2021)
- Vivino is currently ~200 people, looking to expand, particularly product engineering
- Want to expand into more geographies
- Do more marketing - today, only spend 1.5% of GMV (gross merchandise value) on marketing
Vivino vs. Delectable - Delectable was more focused on somms and wine influencers, which kept them on the platform, but pushed away from the casual wine consumer and felt very “insider” vs. Vivino focused on the casual wine consumer
Vivino vs. Wine-Searcher - Vivino values convenience more. Wine-Searcher focused on higher-end wines, looking for specific bottles of wine and where to buy it, don’t do transactions
Vivino vs. Drizly - the focus is on convenience for delivery, has a network of 1,000s of retailers, faster and less concerned about what exactly the product is, Vivino more focused on wine exploration and ratings

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Having gone through the most difficult period in history with an unprecedented shutdown during the Covid pandemic, restaurants and their sommeliers and beverage directors are in a new world and need to evolve. Mia Van de Water MS, of Cote Korean Steakhouse and the United Sommeliers Foundation, explains everything that has happened in the world of wine and restaurants. From the scandals at the Court of Master Sommeliers to the pivots restaurants have done during Covid to the work of the United Sommeliers Foundation, Mia takes us through the many evolutions and the future of sommeliers.

Special Announcement: XChateau Live!

When Robert & Peter started XChateau, the idea was to try and build a community around the business of wine. Part of that has been engaging with our listeners, as well as our guests. While it has happened on an ad hoc basis, for our 50th Episode / 1 Year Anniversary, we wanted to do it more proactively. So, we'll be doing a live podcast on Clubhouse‬ and we hope our listeners join! We'll also have some former guests including Lauren McPhate, Juliana Colangelo, MBA.

Details:

Tues May 4th, 12-1pm PST

Link: https://www.joinclubhouse.com/event/mJDAOoYb

Detailed Show Notes:

A 20-year career in restaurants started in high school
- Learned how to talk about wine from distributor rep trainings
- Read Setting the Table, worked at Union Square Cafe and North End Grill for 9 years, became sommelier and beverage director at North End
- She spent 3 years at Eleven Madison Park for the ultra-fine dining experience
- During Covid - worked retail with Whole Foods and other retail
- Now works with Victoria James at Cote Korean Steakhouse
Became a Master Sommelier from the Court of Master Sommeliers (“CMS”) in 2018
- Part of the class that had to retake the tasting exam from the “Cheating” Scandal in Sept 2018
  - “Cheating” Scandal was when an examiner released info via email about two wines on the exam to some candidates but was unsolicited, so candidates weren’t “cheating”
  - She re-took the exam in Dec 2018 and passed
- BLM / sexual harassment scandals - has discouraged many people from taking the CMS route
- Currently on the Board of the CMS
  - The CMS started as a fraternal brotherhood of wine geeks
  - Today - trying to re-orient the focus off the membership and onto the candidates -> building towards a better, more inclusive, safer, and a more engaging experience
The definition of a beverage director and sommelier
- Key qualities - leadership and hospitality
- Service is a critical component of the job - should be excellent at bussing tables, running food, etc.…
- Job is to build relationships with guests, creating magical experiences from the beginning to the end
- The Beverage director is also responsible for the financial health of the beverage program, which is the health of the restaurant
Pennsylvania - restaurants need to buy wine at the same price as consumers from the state liquor store -> has driven a lot of BYO
“Dollars trump cost of goods”
- Mia’s strategy is to encourage people to buy more wine than they would otherwise
- Still need a COGS engine, which is usually the BTG program (higher margin)
- Encourages people to purchase a bottle
Pre-2020 trends (more NY oriented)
- BTG prices had gone up substantially
- Tons of new fancy, a la carte restaurants being opened
- Everyone needed a fancy craft cocktail program
- Larger wine lists
- More floor sommeliers
- Natural wine was popular
Covid pivots
- CNN reported 110,000 (17%) restaurants closed in the US in 2020
- Bev to go: Retail bottle sales, wine by the glass in small bottles, blind tasting kits
The United Sommeliers Foundation
- Founded by Chris Blanchard and Christie Norman
- Aim to financially assist floor sommeliers during the restaurant shutdown
- Expanded to general wine and beverage industry folks in restaurants
- Raised money via auctions and donations from people and wineries
- Raised ~$1M
- Two types of grants
  - $500 base grants - granted to ~1,000 people, sized to avoid tax liability
  - “Grand Cru Scholarships” - paid expenses directly to creditors
- Applications still open for those in need
- Hope to continue to live on post-pandemic -> in the process of trying to identify what the future purpose will be
Sommelier role going forward
- Everyone needs to wear more hats
- Somms need to become more financially savvy

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Setting the Table: The Transforming Power of Hospitality in Business

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Too often known as just a value sparkling wine, Cava makes some of the world’s finest traditional-method sparkling wines. Ones that Javier Pagés, President of D.O. Cava, would like to see drunk on more occasions, especially with food. Javier gives us an overview of the Cava region, how it builds brand ambassadors across the globe, and how “Cava elevates every meal” on this episode of XChateau.

Detailed show notes:

Javier’s background
- Started as a wine salesperson, including in the US (both East Coast and San Francisco) with importers, distributors (e.g., Southern Glazers)
- Was a sales director and then CEO of a Cava company (Codorniu)
Cava
- D.O. specialized in 1 thing - sparkling wine in the traditional method
- Cava is named for the underground cellars where the wine is aged
- Varietals used - Xarel-lo, Macabeo, Parellada, Chardonnay, & Pinot Noir; Trepat and Grenache for red varieties for rose
- 4 main regions for Cava
  - Catalunya - the main region, has 4 sub-regions
  - Valencia / Levante - Eastern Spain
  - Extremadura - Southwest Spain
  - Ebro River Valley
- 2 Cava quality levels
  - Cava de Guarda - aged for at least 9 months on lees
  - Cava de Guarda Superior - aged for more than 18 months on lees
    - Allowed to use sub-appellation names
    - Includes Reserva, Gran Reserva, and Paraje Calificado levels
Cava is the most exported wine in Spain
- 70% in 2020, up from 60% previously
- Increase due to pandemic (on-premise and tourism down dramatically in Spain in 2020)
- Top markets:
  - Europe - top 3 = Belgium, UK, Germany; other important markets = Netherlands, Nordics, France, Russia, Switzerland
    - Germany - very price sensitive
    - UK - very competitive due to grocery stores, independent retailers allow for some more expensive Cavas
  - North America - US (4th major market, ~20M bottles imported), Canada (11th biggest market)
  - Asia - Japan a major market, China hasn’t fallen in love with sparkling wines yet; S Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong
  - Latin America - Brazil is a major market
  - Australia - #22 market and growing
A major challenge for Cava - making it better known and agreed that Cava is a quality sparkling wine vs. only a value wine
- Trying to increase consumer occasions for consuming Cava - current push is for more food pairing - “Cava elevates every meal” website mentions pairing with Mexican food
D.O. Cava’s mission - to add value to all members
- Adapt the region to today’s consumers
- Different products for different consumers and different moments
- Certify and track that what’s on the label is true, provide traceability
Conducts consumer studies - measure the health of the Cava brand, understand consumer desires
D.O. Cava’s members
- Made up of production side (vineyard people, growers) and wineries
- 12 person board - 6 from vineyards, 6 from wineries
- Members pay a fee to D.O. based on hectares of vineyards or bottles sold
- Membership is optional
Marketing Cava to different audiences
- Journalists - important to bring them to where the action is, want to know everything - the process, story, etc.…
- Trade - more about educating them so they can sell the wine - webinars, wine academy course
- Consumers - more impulsive, emotional connections, giving them experiences and sharing the wine through events and visiting the wineries
Most successful marketing campaign - Wine Cava Academy
- Creates wine ambassadors for Cava
- Contains different modules - production, regions, tasting profiles, wine pairings, etc.…
- Use well-known professionals (e.g., MWs, journalists) to teach courses
- Get a certificate at the end of the course
US marketing campaign - 360 Degrees of Cava
- A multi-pronged marketing campaign where the elements support each other
- Educational elements for consumers - masterclasses, tastings
- Press
- Social media
- Tactical advertising

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Family-owned, diverse, and artisan are the key messages for Sonoma County wines, according to Michael Haney, Executive Director of Sonoma County Vintners. When people hear about the diversity of Sonoma wines around the world, they want to know more! Michael takes us through the global situation of Sonoma wines, the events they put on, and how their foundation supports the entire Sonoma County community. Listen in for a peek into the diversity of Sonoma and how it markets its wines.

Detailed Show Notes:

Background on Sonoma County
- 1 hour from San Francisco
- 1M acres with only 6% planted to vines, a lot of forest and pastureland
- 18 different AVA’s - lots of diverse growing climates
- 85% family owned
- Lots of diversity - 18 growing regions, 60 varietals, and diversity within varietals (e.g., Pinot Noir from the Sonoma Coast vs. Russian River Valley)
Key Message of Sonoma Wine - family-owned, small, artisanal winemaking, diversity, and quality of the wines
- The diversity message creates intrigue, “people want to know more”
- They use the same message regardless of geography
Sonoma County Vintners (“SCV”)
- Mission - be a leading voice for the Sonoma wine community
- 3 main areas - trade association, event production, and charitable foundation
- Success = meeting the challenges of the wine community and the community as a whole
- Part of “The Trio” - Sonoma County Vintners (focused on wineries), Sonoma County Winegrowers (focused on vineyards), and Sonoma Tourism (collaborate together on marketing and consumer engagement)
- Also partners with the Sonoma County Farm Bureau
Collaboration with Sonoma sub-regional bodies
- SCV has 15 committees, with members of the groups from the regional bodies (e.g., Russian River Winegrowers)
- Help other organizations with political advocacy
- Help promote the story of the growing region
Members - 75% of the ~500 wineries in Sonoma County
- Range from mom and pop winery to large wineries
- Most are also a member of another sub-regional body
Affiliate Members - e.g., barrel, legal, HR companies - who want to support the wine community
Business model
- Membership fees - based on cases sold
- Event participation - Barrel Auction - trade event that raises money for SCV
- Sponsorship and partnership program
- Foundation - mostly funded through charity auction (Sept), raised $6.1M in 2019
International interest spiking for Sonoma wine, especially Pinot Noir, mostly Asia (incl Hong Kong), Netherlands, Canada, Mexico
SCV Events
- Barrel Auction - trade-focused
- Charity Auction - for consumers, in the fall
- Taste of Sonoma - was 2,500 people pre-pandemic
- Virtual events during the pandemic
Marketing Tools & Plan
- Need a comprehensive approach
- It covers all bases - social media (incl influencers), print, panels/webinars, etc...
- Media engagement - both w/in Sonoma and out in local markets
- New consumer engagement - “Road Trip” - put together a playlist for those going to visit Sonoma wineries
Improving and best practices for marketing/events
- Survey consumers and incorporate feedback
- Did a focus group that had 25 suggestions, 24 of which were implemented
- Best practices for events - listen to those involved, create a collaborative plan (including sponsors, community leaders, wineries, etc.…)
- E.g., Taste of Sonoma
  - Was Labor Day Weekend
  - Wineries said it was hard b/c it overlapped w/ harvest. Consumers said it was too warm
  - Changes implemented -> covered the entire area wines were served and now looking at moving the event to June or the Summer to not be during harvest
Pivots during Covid
- A virtual auction last May
- Virtual continuing education series
- Helped organize 1,000s of vaccines for winery workers
- Believes there will be a hybrid model (both virtual and in-person) post-pandemic
Foundation
- Founded in 1988, more active in the last 5 years
- Raised >$37M to date, all the money stays in Sonoma County
- Supported >85 different non-profits in 2020 with $4M of cash donations
- Also did food drives, supported restaurant workers, and a variety of other causes

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While “cheap and cheerful” might have been an apt description of Australian wine 20 years ago when Yellowtail was the #1 wine brand in the US, “Made our Way” is the new Australian marketing campaign that emphasizes the complexities and innovation of the modern Australian wine industry. Aaron Ridgway, Regional GM of the Americas for Wine Australia, tells us about how they are “complexifying” and “re-mystifying” Australian wine, showcasing the substantial innovation, 100 different grape varieties, and extreme regional variations in growing climates. Listen in for the journey of Australian wine through decades and regions of the world.

Detailed Show Notes:

Australian Wine
- Has been a big wine exporter since the 1980s
- ~2M tons of grapes per year (smaller than the US)
- A$3B of wine exported to 150 countries (A$450M to the US)
- Old vines (including some own-rooted ones), 100 varieties grown, 65 wine regions make the country unique and diverse
- Lots of climate diversity - cool climates, deserts, wetter and drier regions
- 200 years of winemaking history
- Yellowtail, which was launched in 2000, was the #1 wine brand in the US for a while
Wine sales
- Affordable wine demand has remained, but higher-end wines have grown
- 2x the sales of >$10/bottle in 2020 than in 2017
- Peak Australian wine sales around 2007-2008, many Australian wines were sold out and flying off the shelves
- Top Export Markets
  - North America (US, Canada) - growing mid-single digits
    - Canada - 24% market share; Canada is behind the curve in terms of what’s new and exciting (vs. the US)
  - UK - up 30%; 80% of sales is bulk wine, very price competitive market
  - China (was big, major importing challenges right now)
Wine Australia messaging
- Global message - Australian wine is diverse and exciting
- The goal is the complexify and re-mystify Australian wine - pushing stories of individuals and the many diverse wine regions vs. Australia as a single category
- Current strengths - natural wines (from the strength of character and experimentation) and innovation (e.g., 19 Crimes Augmented Reality, Penfolds’ California Collection, new packaging)
  - E.g., Ochota Barrels - a story of a “new classic”
    - Experience with very commercial wineries globally, including Two Hands in Australia
    - A punk rocker who bought a vineyard in the Adelaide Hills
    - They make unique wines with contemporary packaging
Wine Australia organization
- Mission - make Australian wine more competitive globally, want to raise the average price
- Tagline / PR Campaign - “Australian Wine, Made our Way”
  - Fighting the sense of “sameness” in wine marketing
  - More drone photography, scenes where the desert meets the ocean, tannin stains under the fingernails
- Success? Driving organic growth, both in volume and price
- The US has 3 priorities
  - 1) Digitally nimble in education - Australia Wine Discovered - customizable, fully downloadable library of wine content, including educator guides
  - 2) Business Development - help retailers, wholesalers, chain restaurants - with staff education, programming
  - 3) Market Entry - only ~20% of Australian wines are in the US market
Major marketing techniques
- Try to match the content and level of detail with what the audience is seeking
- “Australia Decanted”
  - Trade education conference in Lake Tahoe (2018-2019)
  - 100 people each year
  - The location chosen because no wine was made there, can focus without distraction, and it's much closer than Australia
  - It changes people's minds, creates a more spiritual connection with Australian wine
  - Many alumni of the program go out to talk about Australian wine
- Global blind tastings - to focus on match in the glass, 8 Australian wines, and 4 global wines of the same variety
- Techniques vary by market
  - Canada - focused on exploration and increasing the range of wines available with the provincial monopolies
  - UK - white glove, fine wine, trade-focused (as most of the sales are bulk)
  - China - focused on consumers, 10s of millions of interested consumers - lots of local educators to deliver the messages (leveraging Australian Wine Discovered)
  - Germany - mostly trade education

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“You gotta be a little crazy to plant vines in New York,” Sam Filler of the New York Wine & Grape Foundation tells us. Yet, New York is the third-largest wine-producing state after California and Washington. It showcases a diversity of high quality, cool and cold climate wine growing regions, such as the Finger Lakes, Long Island, and Niagara. Sam gives us an overview of wine (and juice grape growing) in New York and tells us about how the foundation supports its members by building the brand of New York Wine, its winegrowing regions, and primarily family businesses that make it up.

Special Announcement: "Be the Change is hosting a virtual job fair on April 22nd for the beverage alcohol industry. Registration is now open for all employers at bethechangejobfair.com. Sign up to connect with up to 1,000 jobseekers. This is an equal opportunity job fair, open to all."

Detailed Show Notes:

New York Wines
- 470 wineries, ~100 vinifera producing
- Mostly family-owned wineries
- 3 in US wine production behind CA and WA
- $6.65B in economic impact supports 72,000 jobs
- ~40,000 acres planted, 11 AVA’s
- Has a diversity of climates - maritime (Long Island), river influenced (Hudson Valley), great lakes (Finger Lakes)
Main AVA’s
- Finger Lakes - Riesling; lots of winegrowing history; 1st wine trail (1983), Pleasant Valley Winery founded in 1860 - 1st US bonded winery
- Niagara - could be a leading Pinot Noir region
- Long Island - debate on the signature grape, Merlot the base of Rose, Sauv Blanc, Cab Franc; the breeze from bodies of water reduce mildew pressure
- Lake Erie - major Concord grape growing region for Welch’s grape juice, Double A Vineyards nursery an important player; Riesling, Traminette (like Gewurztraminer)
- Hudson Valley - Cab Franc focused, 500 acres planted
- Finger Lakes and Long Island recognized both locally and globally
Main varietals
- Riesling - grown in most regions, biggest in Finger Lakes
- Cab Franc - grown in many parts
- Chardonnay - Finger Lakes, Lake Erie, Long Island; more Chablis style wine
- Pinot Noir - big for sparkling wine production
Unifying elements of New York wines
- Cool climate, mainly driven by family businesses
- Defined by bodies of water that surround the regions
- Personalized hospitality (elevated with Covid, e.g., Macari Vineyards glamping tents)
NY Wine & Grape Foundation
- Established in 1985 by state law - to lead promotion and research efforts for the state
- Associated with Cornell University and various programs, including the wine analytics lab
- Includes juice grapes (⅔ of vines planted in the state) - Welch’s a key partner for viticulture research; very limited table grapes in the state
- Success for the foundation is building the capacity of the industry - e.g., getting DTC online, improved websites, connections to customers, and maintaining relationships
- Members are mostly “farm wineries” (a legal term that means wineries use 100% NY grapes), grape growers, and business partners
- State provides baseline funding for infrastructure, receive some matching funds for research, and some membership dues
Working with other local wine marketing groups
- Used to fund some marketing materials
- Now co-sponsor events and collaborate closely with the local marketing bodies
Geographic Focus
- New York City is the #1 focus
- Chicago and Florida also important; PA difficult b/c of the liquor control board
- Some export but need to find the right niche
Marketing efforts and programs
- NY wine ~70% sold out of tasting room - hospitality key
  - For markets w/in a 5-hour drive of NY state, NY is the #1 destination to visit
  - Tourism sales did well in Covid with people traveling locally (less visitation, but higher sales/visitor)
- Building more online presence (e.g., Macari vineyards dialed in their wine club program during Covid)
- Virtual tastings helping broaden the geographic reach
- They did some advertising on Levi Dalton’s I’ll Drink to That podcast and now with SevenFifty to reach the trade audience
- The key effort is in keeping consumers engaged with wineries
- Believes telling the individual stories of wineries is compelling, potentially more than having a signature grape
- Most effective marketing - when people can connect in person, started experimenting with incorporating local elements in trade tours (e.g., state park visits, walk-around tastings with a meal, more curated events vs. bussing around to many wineries)
NY State Wine messaging
- Used to be “Uncork New York”
- Now “Boldly New York” - embodies the risk-taking spirit across the state, “gotta be a little crazy to plant vines in New York”
- Vision - To be the world’s greatest cool and cold climate grape-growing region
NY wine investment
- Paul Hobbs started a winery in the Finger Lakes focusing on Riesling
- The trend has mostly been family wineries buying other family-owned wineries - the industry is investing in itself

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Used to celebrate the drafting of the US Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, Madeira wines are the ultimate in American wines, though not made in America. Originating from shipping goods from Europe to America and being born from wines traveling that route, it became the most prominent wine in the US pre-prohibition. History, culture, and the wines' versatility benefited their relaunch in the 1990s by Bartholomew Broadbent, Owner of Broadbent Selections, which imports an array of wines from emerging regions and has its own line of Madeiras, Ports, and other wines. Learn more about the history and the journey of reintroducing a long-lost style of wine back to America in this episode of XChateau.

This episode is sponsored by Repour, the simple, effective way to preserve your wine...without planning ahead. Extensively used by top sommeliers, wineries, and wine students, Repour prevents wasted wine and saves money. Please find out more at repour.com and listen to Episode 24, where CEO Tom Lutz gives us all the details on Repour.

Detailed Show Notes:

Bartholomew’s background in wine
- Son of Michael Broadbent (led wine auctions for Christie’s, Decanter Magazine writer for decades, & leading wine author)
- Went to Australia at 18 to work harvest, Cognac as a tour guide, worked in wine at Harrod’s in London and at Harvey’s Fine Wines
- He moved to Toronto and met the Symington Family, where he spent 10 years teaching about Port & Madeira, based out of San Francisco
- He married a Virginia girl and now lives in Virginia
Broadbent Selections
- Founded in 1996
- The goal was to create their own brand of Port & Madeira
- Started an import company as well, which focused on emerging wine regions, including:
  - Portugal (now just the Broadbent brands)
  - South Africa (e.g., Eben Sadie)
  - New Zealand (e.g., Spy Valley)
  - Chateau Musar from Lebanon
  - Gusbourne from England
- Broadbent wines include Madeira, Port, Vinho Verde (single biggest selling wine), Douro, and Gruner Veltliner from Austria
Madeira
- It was the biggest selling wine in the US until Prohibition
- Invented through shipping to America from Europe, ships stopped in Madeira (600 miles off the coast of Africa / Morocco) to re-stock; when wines accidentally made it back to Madeira and went through two journeys by sea, the wines tasted better through the heating
- Now the wine style is a cooked and fortified wine
- Lots of history around Madeira - the wine used to celebrate the Constitution and Declaration of Independence, was on the table w/ Betsy Ross sewed the American flag
- Benefited from a tax loophole, when the King taxed all European goods going to America, it did not cover Madeira
- Destruction of the Madeira market
  - Phylloxera - destroyed lots of vines
  - Prohibition - Prior, 95% of the wine was sent to the US, 5% to the UK and Russia
  - Upon appeal of Prohibition, shipping had improved and no longer needed to stop in Madeira for supplies
- Re-launch of Madeira in the US - Bartholomew relaunched in 1989 with the Symingtons
Production
- 8 producers of Madeira on the island, who buy grapes from ~1,000 growers
- Vines mostly grown on trellises with other crops underneath (there aren’t a lot of vineyards to see and visit)
- Two types of heating methods
  - Estufa - artificial heating in tanks, 3 months at 115F, mostly for the 3-5-year-old styles of wines
  - Canteiro / Traditional - left in attics of buildings to heat; Broadbent ages in 3 locations - attic, ground floor, and basement to blend and get more complexity
- 8 producers make lots of different brands, Broadbent made by Justino’s
- Island producers ~100,000 cases/year of drinking Madeira (vs. cooking Madeira), Justino’s ~55%, Henriques & Henriques ~20%
- Grape varieties
  - 3 red grapes (~80%) - Tinta Negra
  - 7 white grapes - incl Sercial (grown in hills, ripens less and more acidic), Verdelho, Boal, Malmsey
  - Both name of grapes and style of wines
- Drier Madeiras partly made by adding brandy later in fermentation
- Rainwater - needs to be a lighter style
- Vintage or Frasqueira Madeira - needs to be aged for 20 years before release, at least 19 years in cask and 1 year in bottle, but bottles the word “Vintage” does not appear on the label as that is trademarked by Port
- Colheita - min 5 years of age
Selling Madeira in the US
- ~25k cases/year in the US, #2 or 3 market globally
- England and Japan drink a lot of Madeira, Canada also a big market
- The slowdown of sales for Port in the late 1990’s - believes due to the rise of high alcohol wines and not leaving enough capacity for fortified wine at the end of dinner
- Madeira appeals to the intellect, stories tied to US history, the beauty of island and tourism, and versatility of the wine due to acidity (pairs with anything)
- No specific demographics for Madeira
- Older, rarer wines sold mostly at restaurants
- Mannie Berk of Rare Wine Company also started a Madeira brand and has done a good job of educating consumers
- Sherry market has improved due to mixology and cocktail culture, Spanish restaurants (e.g., tapas) have also helped support it
- Pricing of rare Madeiras has increased a lot, especially in the auction markets, as sales have depleted the stock on the island
Broadbent vs. other Madeiras
- More elegance, considered one of the top brands made by Justino’s
- Named in Wine & Spirits Top 100 wineries of the world
- Great sales team, including 2 Master Sommeliers, who help to sell into restaurants and retail

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The hardest wine exam in the world, an elite community of >400 wine professionals, and learning how to engage with wine more. All those elements are used to describe the Institute of Masters of Wine and the Master of Wine (“MW”) exam. Mark de Vere MW tells us about how becoming an MW landed him a full-time job in Napa to all the rigors required to pass the MW exam. A must listen to episode for those thinking of applying for the MW program or those who just love learning about challenging wine exams.

Detailed Show Notes:

Mark’s background
- He grew up in Oxford, United Kingdom
- Studied wines through a wine tasting group at university
- Worked at a local wines shop in Oxford
- Worked harvest in Australia, did Wine & Spirit Education Trust (“WSET”) exams
- In 1997, he had a summer job at Robert Mondavi, passed the Master of Wine exam during that time, and was hired on full time and still at Robert Mondavi / Constellation Brands
Institute of Masters of Wine (“IMW”) background
- Currently, 418 Masters of Wine, >490 have passed the exam over time
- Started in 1953 in London as London was the most globally-focused wine trading hub in the world
  - ~20 people sat the exam in 1953, with 6 passing, was only open in the UK at that time
  - The purpose was to measure who was a master of the overall wine trade
  - 1st non-UK residents were Australians and Americans who went to the UK to work and sit the exams
- Now a global institution - MWs in 30 countries, exam offered around the world (London, California, Australia), head office is still in London
- The mission of the IMW - to promote excellence, interaction, and learning in the global wine trade
  - Interaction through tastings and the MW Symposium (held every 4 years)
  - Excellence and learning through setting the MW exam
- Not an educational organization like the WSET
IMW vs. Court of Master Sommeliers (“CMS”)
- MS has a more laddered programs (i.e., more levels before the master level)
- MW has no practical, service element
- MS exam is oral, MW is all written
The MW Study Program
- Goal: to help orient people to understand what the end goal is - to gain the depth and breadth of the challenge of the MW exam
- Need to know every step of the wine business, from the vineyard to wine landing on the table
- 3 Stages
  - Stage 1 - 1st orientation to the program, has the Stage 1 assessment - proving you can understand the issues, 12 wines blind, 1 set of theory essays
  - Stage 2 - preparation for the MW exam, which is 3 x 2.25-hour blind tasting exams with 12 wines each, 5 x timed theory exams
  - Stage 3 - research paper, developing something new for the world of wine
- There are time limits for getting through the program now, ~5 years, with the goal of not getting people stuck in it
Pass Rate of the MW exam
- Used to say ~10% of people that sat the exam
- Hard to calculate a rate due to people who sit multiple times, and you can pass certain portions of the exam
- IMW actively trying to increase the pass rate by making it more difficult to get in and sit the exam
- ~15-20% of people who enter the program actually complete it; ~75-100 are admitted to the program each year and ~10-20 people become MWs each year
- Value of the program, if you don’t complete is learning how to understand the issues around wine better, engaging with wine differently, and building communication skills
More people are applying for the MW program and it’s becoming a more global program
The IMW and diversity
- The exam is completely blind, making it unable to discriminate via grading
- Conduct outreach to all parts of the world to generate a diverse pool of candidates
- ~150 female MWs today
Being an MW
- Titles do carry some weight within the wine world
- Got Mark a permanent job at Mondavi after being hired for only a seasonal position
- Join a community of MWs, where giving back to the wine world is one of the core tenets

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From its start as a way to build demand for French wines in the US to a global program with 100 approved program providers in 30 countries, the Wine Scholar Guild (“WSG”) is a theory-focused wine education program targeting the “committed students of wine.” Lisa Airey, Education Director of the WSG, tells us about the different levels of the program, instructor online courses, and how the WSG fits into the wine education landscape.

This episode is sponsored by Repour, the simple, effective way to preserve your wine...without planning ahead. Extensively used by top sommeliers, wineries, and wine students, Repour prevents wasted wine and saves money. Find out more at repour.com and listen to Episode 24, where CEO Tom Lutz gives us all the details on Repour.

Detailed Show Notes:

Lisa’s background - 13 years in wine wholesale sales, education director and interim executive director for the Society of Wine Educators (“SWE”), then joined the French Wine Scholar program, which is now the Wine Scholar Guild
Met Julian Camus, the WSG President while at SWE, who was trying to help find importers to the US for French producers
- He created the French Wine Society to build interest and love for French wine amongst consumers
- FWS events would have ~500 people and sell thousands of dollars of wine for each event
WSG founded in 2008 as the FWS program, an education and credential body
- Became an advanced program right away
- For the “serious wine hobbyist” or “committed student of wine”
- 100 program providers in 30 countries
Differentiation vs. other wine education bodies
- WSG is specialized in France, Italy, and Spain, the 3 largest producing countries in Europe
- Other programs are more generalist / global
- SWE is more of a membership program with study and certification. WSG is more study/certification with membership as a sidebar
- Exams are 100% theory - 100 questions multiple-choice (75% is passing, with honors and highest honors)
- WSG fills the niche of some self-study courses like WSET Diploma and Master of Wine with detailed study materials
3 Course types
- Classroom - instructor-led, taste along in class
- Instructor Online - live instruction online, if you miss a class, you can go back and replay it on-demand
- Independent Study - for self-motivated who can’t make the schedules work
Scholar vs. Master level courses
- French Wine Scholar coursebook is 274 pages just on French wines
- Master Level programs are 125-375 pages on 1 region (Bourgogne is the largest)
- Master programs can be important for people in the industry that need that level of expertise for their jobs
Study trips
- Some for educators and approved program providers
- Study immersion trips - open to the public, have top names as hosts (e.g., Andrew Jefford), that can open doors
Digital Programs
- Went digital early in order to go global
- Benefits of online learning - no travel, parking, easy to miss a session and catch up
- Partnered with Coravin to have a discount for members so students can purchase wine and not have to pop a cork
Membership
- To foster continuous learning after programs
- 4 webinars / month, with 150+ on-demand
- Pronunciation programs
- Discounts on Coravin, 10% off education programs
- Costs $100/year
Scholarships
- Tripled the amount during Covid
- Provide Instructor Online courses as scholarships
- Have 2 programs today - need-based/financial aid and Master of Wine scholarships
Offer group rates for distributors

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Bâtonnage, the French word for stirring the lees, is now about stirring up the conversation about women and wine. The Bâtonnage Forum, founded in 2018, is creating a safe space to have difficult conversations about gender inclusivity in the wine world. Katie Canfield and Rebecca Johnson, partners at wine PR agency O’Donnell Lane, are currently carrying the baton for the forum. They tell XChateau about transitioning the forum to virtual, launching a mentorship program, and filing for 501c3 status.

This episode is sponsored by Repour, the simple, effective way to preserve your wine...without planning ahead. Extensively used by top sommeliers, wineries, and wine students, Repour prevents wasted wine and saves money. Find out more at repour.com and listen to Episode 24, where CEO Tom Lutz gives us all the details on Repour.

Detailed Show Notes

The mission of The Bâtonnage Forum - to open up the conversation about women and wine and create a safe space to have difficult conversations
Founded in 2018 by Stevie Stacionis and Sarah Bray
Set up to “pass the baton” every two years
- Katie and Rebecca are the lead organizers for 2020 and 2021
- This brings in new ideas and changes to the organization
The Bâtonnage Forum has transformed from 1 day in Napa to a robust, active community from all sectors of the wine industry
- The broad focus is a unique selling point
- It’s a platform for education and engagement
- They have gotten lots of positive, direct feedback (thank yous, emails, volunteers who want to be involved)
The Forum
- 1st two forums held in Napa
- Went from 1 day to multi-day, multi-session virtual forum, expanding the audience to all of North America and some global participants
- 2021 - will be 3 days at the end of June
The issue
- Only ~30-40% of wine businesses are women-owned
- Only 14% of CA wineries have female head winemakers, though this has improved some
- The Sommelier industry has meager female participation
- metoo movement has been helpful
How to Help
- Step 1 - acknowledge and recognize the issue, join the conversation, including at the Bâtonnage Forum
- Step 2 - improve HR and hiring practices
- Step 3 - mentoring (spread the word about the mentorship opportunities to potential mentees), education (including WSET, MW, etc.…), and shaking up the conversation
- Donations (currently filing for 501c3 status)
2020 accomplishments
- Pivoted in-person forum (was planning to be at Sonoma Broadway Farms) to virtual due to Covid with 10 sessions, 35 speakers, and 20 winemakers and chefs for a virtual walk-around tasting
2021 Initiatives
- Launched Mentorship Program - Level 1 of 3
  - Mentoring leads include the founders, Priyanka French, Tonya Pitts, and Mary Maher
  - Sponsored by Napa Valley Vintners
- Filing for 501c3 non-profit status, targeting $10k/year for 3 years
- Launching a Bâtonnage Forum branded canned wine with Nomadica
- Want to dive deeper into uncomfortable conversations
Actively collaborates with other gender and under-represented inclusion groups
- Diversity in Wine Leadership Forum - bringing the various diversity and inclusion groups together to understand what each group brings to the table and avoid overlap
- Assemblage in Willamette Valley
- Wonder Women of Wine (now Lift Collective) in Texas
- Black Wine Professionals by Julia Coney
How we’ll know when we’re “there” - when there’s no longer a place for diversity committees in organizations

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Creating inclusivity and change is not changing current structures. It’s about creating new spaces. Ikimi Dubose of The Roots Fund is pushing change for diversity and inclusion of the BIPOC community in wine through passion, accountability, and transparency. She tells us how The Roots Fund is more than scholarships, has been able to change lives, and is expanding its impact with a high school enrichment program, a job board, and a language program. Dynamic only marginally describes Ikimi and The Roots Fund and the impact this nascent non-profit organization is having with only a year under its belt.

This episode is sponsored by Repour, the simple, effective way to preserve your wine...without planning ahead. Extensively used by top sommeliers, wineries, and wine students, Repour prevents wasted wine and saves money. Find out more at repour.com and listen to Episode 24, where CEO Tom Lutz gives us all the details on Repour.

Detailed Show Notes:

The Roots Fund supports Black, Indigenous, and LatinX in wine
Founded by Ikimi, Carlton McCoy (CEO of Lawrence Family Wineries), and Tahiirah Habibi (owner of Hue Society)
Ikimi and Carlton met as scholars of the CCAP program
Board includes the 3 founders currently, expanding with 2 more in 2021
Mission: to empower BIPOC (Black, Indigenous, and People of Color) in wine through scholarships, mentorship, and job placement
Some definitions:
- POC = people of color
- HBCU = historically black colleges & universities
- DEI = diversity, equity, and inclusions
Diversity in wine
- Wine is <5% POC
- Hospitality more diverse than wine in general - more chefs are POC
- Many people forget the ownership part of inclusivity
- Diversity is growing
  - Support from NBA players - the Roots Fund doing some work with Dwayne Wade
  - POC make up ~11% of wine consumers, a big customer base
Creating change
- Start with changing hiring practices
- Have HR people with DEI training
The Roots Fund differentiation
- “No glass ceiling” - not just scholarships for tuition/fees, but funding can include the wines and other elements needed to pursue a career in wine
- It doesn’t stop at scholarships - mentorship is mandatory, building a community
- Send funders synopsis and videos of stories of scholars with the impact their scholarships are having on their lives
- The lean organization, efficient operating structure - a lot of volunteer-based work, transparent (financial statements will be available end of March), 70% of funding goes directly to scholarships (vs. ~50-60% at other non-profits), no office space
Scholarships
- Types
  - Location-based (e.g., Rooted in Napa, Rooted in France) - work and study in a location
  - Stay Rooted in Education - wine business focused
  - Rooted in Education - for wine certifications
  - Rooted in Culture - for joining membership organizations
  - Rooted in Wine, a Vintner’s Story - a partnership with Naked Wines, creating a wine and product, keep ownership of the wine and brand, Naked Wines distributes 1st round of product
- Scholarships open quarterly, targeting 20 scholars/quarter in 2021, but have ~70 applicants today
How to help
- Jobs - reach out with internships, jobs
- Mentorship - people of all backgrounds desired, mentors and scholars are matched with purpose, want mentors who can create a safe space for people with different experiences, build them up, and share their network
- Fundraising - 2021 goal - $500k, but hoping to exceed $1M
2020 Accomplishments
- Had a $100k fundraising target (for 10 scholars), raised ~$300k
- 30 scholars in the program working
- Domaine Dujac and Naked Wine sponsorships
2021 Programs
- High School enrichment program
  - Take students to community colleges and universities with wine programs
  - Spend time at some wineries
  - Conduct tastings with the parents - educating them on wine and the opportunities in the wine industry for their children
  - Launching with 2 cities in 2021
- Job Board
  - It should be open at the end of March
  - The Roots Fund pre-vets candidates, only passing along the best fits
  - It requires follow up and feedback to improve candidates
- Language Program - a partnership with Lip Service by Cha McCoy to empower people in wine with language education
- Gearing up for 2022 - jobs, internships, and trips
Other areas of support
- Building a massive program with Lodi, California
- Waiting for more support from Napa Valley - as the industry leader, they can change the view of inclusivity in the industry
- We will be doing a raffle/fundraiser for Women’s History Month in Spring

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Art, comedy, food, movies, performance art, outdoor cabanas, food and wine pairings...are some of the draws that bring people to Charles Krug winery in Napa Valley. President & CEO of C Mondavi & Family (parent company of Charles Krug) Judd Wallenbrock tells us about the history of innovation at Charles Krug and the Mondavi family. As the first winery and first tasting room in Napa Valley, Charles Krug has spearheaded many different elements of hospitality and now drives them virtual. Hear all about their programs and what has worked in the virtual space on this episode of XChateau!

Detailed Show Notes:

Judd’s background - 41 years in the wine industry
- He visited Napa as a 16-year-old in 1974 (Charles Krug, Mondavi, BV)
- Did stints in retail, restaurants, a winery rep, and has his own backyard winery
- 4 years ago - became President and CEO of C Mondavi
  - The original Mondavi family business
  - Founders - Cesare & Rosa, who settled in Virginia
  - Did hospitality for miners in 1908
  - Got into wine in 1928 - their saloon closed due to prohibition, and they bought and sold grapes and yeast for home wine kits
  - Sons - Peter and Robert Mondavi
  - 5th generation of Mondavi’s was just born
Charles Krug Winery
- Founded in 1861, oldest winery in Napa
- 1965 - Peter & Robert split, Robert founded Robert Mondavi Winery; both were running winery before, then just Peter
- 1882 - 1st tasting room in Napa
- Charles Krug - created a legacy of innovation
  - Introduced wine press to Napa, taking the idea from apple cider
  - 1st to bring Cabernet to Napa
  - Started the 1st wine club, took wine into San Francisco to sell wine
  - Mondavi innovations - brought in French oak barrels, did cold stabilization
Hospitality at Charles Krug
- Wedding - grandfathered in, limited to ~20 per year
- The aim is to create the cultural hub of Napa Valley - present wine as part of the arts
  - Culinary, art, comedy, host the Napa Valley film festival, “SIP” - series of interesting people, like TED talks, music, performing arts
  - Wine is food, but not in the restaurant business
    - Provide a “teaser” for guests
    - Partnership with Pete Seghesio - makes world-class salumi with C Krug wine
    - Pizzas - hand made in the outdoor pizza kitchen
    - Has the same sourdough starter from the 1940s from the Mondavi family
- See 40,000 guests per year, 10,000 delivered from Napa Valley Wine Train
  - Small relative to ~300,000 visitors/year at Robert Mondavi winery
- Event-based marketing
  - Use events as a discovery vehicle for the brand
  - It gives a reason to come, confident that wines will speak for themselves
  - Events ticket-based, sometimes include wine
  - Some events curated but not put on by the winery
  - Events targeted to break even, then winery’s job to convert people to sales and club members
  - Help generate word of mouth and 3rd party endorsements
  - Build customer database - for follow up marketing
  - Events themselves not always a good selling opportunity, but do post-event marketing (e.g., free tasting for event attendees that come back)
The GAME plan - a method for measuring and evaluating programs
- Goal, Activities, Metrics, Enhancements (after post-mortem)
- Key metrics for Charles Krug
  - Conversion rate to sale
  - Conversion to wine club
  - Club retention rate
  - Referrals (from all categories - events, hotel, restaurants, social media, etc.…)
- Found more intimate and focused events do better for conversion, e.g., outdoor cabanas doubled wine club conversion
Virtual hospitality
- pre-Covid started in-home tasting groups
  - Revolved around club members in their homes, up to 20 people
  - Blew away goals for sales and club membership
  - Also did recruiting for next tastings
  - Moved to virtual during the pandemic
- Doing virtual for consumer, distributors, and country clubs
- Building comedy and trivia night virtually
- The entertainment part is still evolving
- Corporate tasting packs for customers been a big virtual business
- Have a 360-degree virtual tour
Marketing virtual
- Started with the wine club
- Leveraged social media
- Word of mouth and referrals
- Not a lot of advertising, just limited digital (Facebook and Instagram)
Digital best practices - need to keep pace with constantly evolving technology, content matching to the audience is important
Important to always keep things fresh - future release - chocolate truffles that look like the soil from various Napa appellations, with flavor profiles to pair with wines
Other digital programs
- Telesales - none pre-Covid, now a big business - not hard sales, but courtesy calls, customers enjoy hearing from the winery
- E-commerce - release more content, find its building customer relationships
- Website chat box - has been very effective

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“Even Cooler Than You Think” and “Where Wine Takes You” sum up not just what the Paso Robles region is about but also the names of marketing campaigns and the Paso Wine Country podcast. Chris Taranto, Communications Director of the Paso Robles Wine Country Alliance, tells us about the diversity, friendliness, and character of the Paso Robles wine region. As well as how they promote and position the region within the state and across the country. From Zinfandel to Rhone blends and weekly zoom webinars to consumer events, Chris educates us on all things Paso.

Detailed Show Notes:

Paso Robles wine region overview
- Halfway between San Francisco and Los Angeles
- Along the California Central Coast (Monterey to the North, Santa Barbara to the South), close to the Pacific Ocean
- 41,000 vineyard acres, >600,000 acres total
- 11 different AVA’s
- 60+ different grape varieties
- ~200 wineries, ~170 physical wineries
- ~600-2,200 ft elevation for vineyards
- Population - ~30,000 people in town, ~100,000 in county
- Up to 100+F during the day, but cools off to 50F at night due to the impact of Estoro / Morro Bay creating invection fog through the Templeton Gap
Rhone varietals
- Syrah introduced by Gary Eberle in the late 1980s, early 1990’s
- Tablas Creek (the Haas and Perrin families) - imported grapevines from the Rhone (Chateau Beaucastel, owned by Perrin’s) and propagated
  - TCV (Tablas Creek Vineyard clones) - shared these clones, jumpstarting the region to embrace Rhone varieties
  - Perrins chose Paso due to calcareous soils, similar to limestone
AVA’s - started in 1983 when Paso Robles AVA was created
- York Mountain was excluded because the owner of land in the area believed it was very different from the rest
- Submitted for all 11 AVA’s at once, took 7 years, approved in 2014
- Have conjunctive labeling law - wineries must include both sub-AVA and Paso Robles, which must be of equal or greater font size
Paso Robles Wine Country Alliance
- Mission: promotion and preservation of Paso Robles
- Marketing organization - preserve the Paso brand and brand integrity
- Works with member wineries with educational tools
- Market Paso to different audiences - consumers, sommeliers/retail buyers, journalists (3rd party endorsement)
- Metrics that are measured
  - Consumer events - P&L, experience surveys
  - Advertising - reach
  - Articles / PR - audience numbers
- Members are primarily growers/vintners but capture the whole wine community, including hotels, restaurants, and associate memberships (e.g., suppliers like bottle or label manufacturers)
- Fees are a sliding scale based on case production or vineyard acreage, room count (for hotels)
- Almost all wineries are members - ~190 of 200 wineries are members
- Have sponsorship opportunities for suppliers -> allows them to speak to the members
Trade & consumer events
- In-market events are mostly budget neutral
- Local events - profits help augment the operating budget
- Volunteer participation for wineries, most have no fee (except for one annual event in Cambria)
The geographic focus of promotion
- California (south of Paso is a big feeder market, Bay Area more challenging due to competition with Napa / Sonoma)
- TX, IL, NY, FL also important
- Export - mostly Canada, and most activities through the Wine Institute
Most effective promotions are 3rd party endorsements / PR strategies - journalists, bloggers, etc.…
- Advertising more to get lots of eyeballs at once
- Hosts a weekly Zoom webinar - “Paso Wine Hour”
- Tell members to tell your own true story; Paso is full of mavericks and cowboys, no real rules
- Paso Wine tries to layer up personalities of Paso in PR messages
- Podcast - “Where Wine Takes You”
  - The audience has mostly been driven organically
  - Anecdotal evidence of driving sales, but no hard data yet
Member education
- Have a monthly education series - for growers, winemakers, tasting room managers, hospitality
- Bring in expert guests to provide educational tools for their businesses
- One of the next ones - building a playbook on how to present your brand on digital platforms best
Tourism important for the region
- 2015 - tourism economic impact of $1.5B for Paso Robles ($1.9B for the county, San Luis Obispo) with tourism spending of $194M
- A lot of messaging is to drive people to visit
- Consumer tagline - “Where Wine Takes You”
Major issues for Paso Robles
- Water - there’s a moratorium on new vineyard planting within the water district. It doesn’t get a lot of rain
- Wildfires - no meaningful impact in 2020, but a constant issue
- Sommelier/trade perception that the region is too hot for grape growing - came up with the tagline “Even Cooler Than you Think” - though wines may be high alcohol, they are balanced
- Consumer messaging
  - Don’t try too hard to understand the AVA map yet
  - Get the personality of the region - there's friendliness to it
  - Be adventurous. There’s lots of diversity

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Educating students about wine is more about the “psychic paycheck” than the monetary one for Peter Marks MW, partner and Vice President of the Napa Valley Wine Academy (“NVWA”), the leading provider of Wine & Spirit Education Trust (“WSET”) courses globally. Peter tells us about the different levels of the WSET (from Level 1 to Diploma), the full costs of wine education, and the benefits. He also discusses the innovations happening with online learning, including sending wine kits out with their courses and best practices for virtual seminars. Listen in on this deep dive into wine education from one of the foremost leaders in the field.

This episode is sponsored by Sonoma State University’s Wine Executive MBA program. A 17-month, transformative program that builds leadership skills and business acumen focused on the specific needs of the world of wine. Learn more about SSU’s Wine MBA programs here. If this is something you’re considering, the next session’s enrollment deadline is Feb 28, 2021, for courses starting in April!!

Detailed Show Notes:

Peter’s background
- Started in wine retail in 1981 (worked at Drager’s markets)
- In wine education for the last 20 years (with Copia and Constellation Brands)
- 2019 - joined NVWA and became a partner
Being in wine education is more about the “psychic paycheck” - getting feedback from your customers and students
Napa Valley Wine Academy
- Founded in 2011, offering Wine & Spirit Education Trust (“WSET”) programs
- Now the largest WSET provider in the world
- An Approved Program Provider (“APP”) for WSET - it’s like a franchise, NVWA buys materials, study packs, and exams from WSET; grading is done by WSET in London
- 65% of business in WSET, 35% other wine programs
- Develop proprietary courses - e.g. - Wine 101, Wine 201, Napa Valley Wine Expert, Oregon Wine Expert, the Business of Wine (with Tim Hanni, MW)
WSET
- 4 levels, 1 through 4 (4 is called the Diploma)
- Levels 3 & 4 provide more understanding of the subjects
- The diploma includes the business of wine and is a precursor for the Master of Wine program
- Geared towards all aspects of the wine industry, very broad view vs other programs (e.g. - Court of Master Sommeliers focused on restaurants/service and Society of Wine Educators focused on education)
- Wine industry (or “trade”) participation in courses
  - Level 1 - ~90% consumer, 10% trade
  - Level 2 - ~75% consumer, 25% trade
  - Level 3 - ~40% consumer, 60% trade
  - Level 4 - ~10% consumer, 90% trade
  - More consumers are coming into the program
- The benefits of a wine education, the 3 C’s of the WSET
  - Credential - showing your accomplishment
  - Confidence - knowing the facts about wine, speaking with confidence
  - Culture - participating in the culture of wine...the pay may be low, but being a part of the friendship and social aspects of the wine industry
- ~100,000 WSET students/year - now the “go-to” wine education organization - it covers the entire industry and is global
- Recent changes to the program - giving students what they want
  - Launched a Sake program
  - Split spirits from Wine for the Diploma
  - Introducing Beer soon
Virtual classes
- Has always been an option - was called “self-study” and had to go in person to take exams
- Exams for L1 and L2 now offered online, L3 and Diploma cannot be because they include tastings
- NVWA launched wine kits (wine samples re-bottled into small vials) for virtual classes - do virtual tastings with them, the wines are disguised to be blind
- Had to learn how to better engage students online - using breakout rooms, polls/quizzes, reducing seminar times to 1-2 hours, best practice is to engage with students every 3-5 minutes
- Do live webinars that are recorded
- Students save money by not having to pay for travel to classes, academy saves a bit of cleaning of facilities
- Pricing is the same as in-person, but not travel costs
The cost of wine education
- Course fees, wine (for Diploma ~200-220 wines are recommended to know, wine can cost $500-2,000 for samples), travel
- Wine kits are included in course costs
- Can have mentoring for an additional fee
- Scholarships
  - WSET offers some, but after having passed for the top scores
  - NVWA has several partners for scholarships
    - Wine Unify for L1-3
    - Wine Access
    - The Roots Fund
    - John Hart (former NBA star) - for the BIPOC community
  - The diversity of students is growing
The return on wine education
- Constellation Brands paid bonuses for employees who passed WSET qualifications and also offered tuition reimbursement

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Historic influences of both France and Germany have shaped the region of Alsace and its wines. Foulques Aulagnon, Export Marketing Manager of Conseil Interprofessionnel des Vins d’Alsace (aka - “CIVA” or “Wines of Alsace”) tells XChateau about how CIVA promotes this small corner of northeast France globally. CIVA takes Alsace global to spread the word about some of the world’s most underappreciated wines, from Wine Trucks to an emphasis on food and wine pairing.

This episode is sponsored by Sonoma State University’s Wine Executive MBA program. A 17-month, transformative program that builds leadership skills and business acumen focused on the specific needs of the wine world. Learn more about SSU’s Wine MBA programs here. If this is something you’re considering, the next session’s enrollment deadline is Feb 28, 2021, for courses starting in April!!

Detailed Show Notes

Alsace background - “a pearl” of a winegrowing region
- 38,500 acres
- 2 million-year-old soils
- 2nd driest wine region in France
- 90% white wine, 10% red wine (all from Pinot Noir)
- 25% of production is Cremant d’Alsace (sparkling wine)
- German influence (varietal on the label)
- Mosaic of soils and grape varietals (e.g., Sylvaner, Pinot Gris, Gewurztraminer, Riesling, Pinot Noir)
- 300-year-old family estates
CIVA responsible for everything but the rules of production, with 3 major roles:
- Business monitoring and strategic planning
- Technical viticultural support
- Marketing communication
Mission & purpose - increase positive awareness of Alsace globally and boost wine sales
Main areas of focus (marketing side)
- Public relations - programming with media and trade
- Promotions and communications - in-store, social media, POS, educational materials
- Commercial development - support wineries looking for importers, distribution
How does CIVA measure success?
- Sales increase in value and volume
- PR / press impact - readers reached and exposure
CIVA members - every independent winegrower, co-operatives, and negociants - anyone in the AOC is automatically part of CIVA
It’s a private organization but recognized by the French state
Funding is through mandatory contributions by winegrowers with small support from the EU
Market focus and support examples:
- Investing in over 15 countries
- Historically active in EU, especially Northern Europe
- Now more in the US, Canada, and Japan
- Examples of support
  - Switzerland grocery store chain - provided media support to boost sales
  - Wines of Quebec - offered content and help to bloggers to produce content on Alsace wines
  - Provide info on food and wine pairings and consumer events
  - Provides information for visiting the vineyards of Alsace
  - Alsace Rocks - a 360-degree program of press, trade, and consumer events, started in New York City in 2018, went global afterward
  - Wine Truck Tour in Canada (Ontario and Quebec) - a food truck styled wine tasting with a terrace, tables, and chairs; competition to win Alsace wines, taste at your own leisure, and opportunities to share on social
WWII Impact on Alsace
- Became French again post WWII
- History of being both German and French gives the region strength
- But, only being consistent since WWII has resulted in Alsace being a bit behind in building its reputation as a wine region
The leader in organic and biodynamic wines
- In 2020, 32% of the wine was certified organic
- 1st producer of biodynamic wines (in the 1960s)

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A tasting term, specific elements in the soil and grapes, and even geological elements and rock types; the term minerality in the context of wine has taken up a rather broad usage. Robert and Peter explore a bit of the science, the use of the term as a tasting descriptor, and how the industry has used minerality as a sales tool. Listen to grasp a hold on how the term is used and what it is used for.

Detailed show notes:

Minerality as a wine term started in the 1980s
- A tasting term - related to flint, matchstick, chalk, saline characters
- Mineral elements - e.g. - potassium, phosphorus, calcium, etc…
- Geologic elements - e.g. - quartz, limestone, etc…
As a style of wine
- Minerality is like a macro tasting term, like “fruity”
- Can have sub-elements to the category, e.g. - reduction/sulfur related compounds, stone related, saline / salty related
As a flavor, it is not from the actual minerals in the rocks in the soil
Minerality could be a positive term for the absence of fruity and floral flavors in a wine
It comes from a combination of terroir and winemaking
Wines generally associated with minerality
- Whites: Chablis, Sauv Blanc (e.g. - Sancerre), Gruner Veltliner, Alvarinho, Chenin Blanc, Rieslings, Assyrtiko
- Reds: Pinot Noir, Cab Franc
Using minerality as a sales tool
- Some wineries have labels that specify rocks/soil types
  - E.g. - Didier Dagueneau’s Silex; Mullineux’s Schist, Granite, Iron; Dr. Loosen’s Blue / Red Slate Rieslings
  - But, these wines may not necessarily be referring to minerality in the wines
- Sommeliers and restaurants tend to enjoy minerally wines and may have sections on their wine lists for them
- Retail stores that are organized by wine style do not yet use the term, but may in the future
- Randall Graham of Bonny Doon experimented with infusing rocks into wine, but that led to higher levels of other trace materials and was shut down by the government

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From being body checked at a La Paulee tasting to responding to detailed questions from noted wine counterfeiter Hardy Rodenstock, Maureen Downey, CEO of Chai Consulting, tells us about the long road to becoming one of the world’s leading experts in wine fraud. Maureen gives us insight into the global world of wine fraud, what’s being counterfeited now, and how she’s pioneering methods to authenticate wine with The Chai Vault. A must-listen for anybody interested in collecting or investing in wine!

Detailed Show Notes:

Maureen started in wine auctions in 2000
Learned about counterfeit wines from a counterfeiter - Hardy Rodenstock asked for a lot of details about bottles that were being sold in auction
Rudy Kurniawan case - helped track counterfeit bottles, worked with the FBI, and worked with a group of international wine fraud experts
Counterfeit wine market - it’s in the Billions per year, vast majority sold privately, by brokers, retailers, NOT the auction market b/c auctions are the most visible source of counterfeits
- Estimates 20% of all wine sold is counterfeit - supported by Interpol, consistent with other high-end products
- Lots of IP infringement, low-end wine fraud (e.g., Rose in the South of France)
- Modern trend - counterfeit current, recent production wines
- Most counterfeits come out of Europe (hot spots: Switzerland, Italy, France, & Belgium)
- Asia
  - High-end buyers in Asia assume something is counterfeit until proven real
  - Flooded with fakes from the US when markets first opened up
  - Mainland China - high import taxes leads to the use of “coyotes” (import smugglers) for old and rare wines, and have little recourse for counterfeits
Hard to know what old wines taste like - even some wine critics tasting notes may be based on counterfeit wines made by Hardy Rodenstock and Rudy Kurniawan
Main methods of counterfeiting
- Digitally printed, current production wines
- Can re-fill real bottles of wine
- Sassicaia counterfeit ring was recently broken up - they got proprietary glass, capsules and made excellent copies
There is a big need to track the supply chain to identify and prevent fraud
Tips for getting real wine as a consumer
- Makes sure retailer has not had problems in the past
- Get to know the people at the wine merchant
- Ask questions and demand answers
- Get to know a consultant and have someone vet the wine first, not after
Latest information on wine fraud found on Wine Berserkers and winefraud.com
Systems producers use to protect against fraud
- Prooftag - this is mostly cosmetic, can be digitally printed, and needs proximity to the bottle
- The Chai Vault
  - Wines input into blockchain secured system, can be accessed anywhere in the world -> helps with supply chain tracking
  - Has an NFC chip underneath capsule that can get read; for secondary market wines, puts a PVC overlay over capsule which cannot be read if the capsule is pierced
  - 2nd generation of NFC chip coming out Jan 2021- very low failure rate, better antenna for longer range
  - Costs - $8,500 for bottling line additions + pennies per bottle (starting point, costs more money to add transfer of ownership and other features)
Authentication adds ~20-30% to the value of wine (based on Domaine direct auction sales)

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Displacing pen and paper isn’t that easy in the wine world. SevenFifty, an online wine marketplace, has been innovating in the full value chain of wine to bring things online. Starting with distributors, Aaron Sherman, CEO of SevenFifty, tells Robert and Peter about his plans to become a full-funnel sales & marketing platform for the wine world, with solutions for distributors, suppliers, and both on- and off-premise retailers. Aaron digs into how the platform works today and the innovations on the horizon.

Detailed Show Notes:

Aaron’s background - grew up in a restaurant and wine family was a sommelier and beverage director in New York and Los Angeles
The inspiration for SevenFifty - wanted a better way than pen and paper, which is what distributors used back in 2008-2009
The SevenFifty Platform
- From the trade account perspective
  - a wine buyer, sommelier, or beverage director signs up, attaches an account to a liquor license, then can search what’s available in their market
  - They can build lists of items, build orders online, send credit applications to distributors with one click, and view a local events calendar
- For distributor sales reps (~35,000 sales reps have access to these tools)
  - Can see the competitive set in their market
  - Can explore their own portfolio and build tasting sheets, proposals, and digital order forms
  - Includes a lightweight CRM to track customer interactions
- For producers
  - Can claim their products
  - Consolidate data across their distributors
  - Add more product information
The intention is to target all parts of the supply chain, starting with distributors
The biggest challenge today is integration into the “source of truth” - accounting or ERP systems of distributors, focused on integrating to other 3rd party systems to drive online ordering
Has built the largest product data library in the country
SevenFifty today - the largest alcoholic beverage marketplace, active in almost every state, >1,000 distributors, >100,000 on and off-premise retailers, >$1 billion in gross merchandise volume (sales volume on the marketplace); ~100 employees in 2020
How users search for wines - ~50/50 split between looking at categories of wines vs. looking for specific wines and brands
How do distributors sell more wine with SevenFifty?
- Access to customers
- Lets buyers discover products within a distributor’s portfolio
Business model - subscription-based software for distributors, suppliers, and the newest product, storefronts (for retailers); in the future, plan on launching a product for on-premise accounts
Bridge Acquisition - great technology for wine retail e-commerce, synergistic with Beverage Media Group’s BevSites (also acquired)
Beverage Media - long history of representing distributors, editorial content compliments SevenFifty Daily

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A year that felt like a century...tariffs, the Covid-19 pandemic, massive wildfires, social upheavals for both gender and race...2020 is one for the record books. Carlton McCoy, CEO of Heitz Cellars, and Jane Anson, writer for Decanter Magazine and author of Inside Bordeaux, join Robert and special guest host Charlie Fu (Wine Berserkers moderator) to recap all the twists and turns of 2020.

Detailed Show Notes:

Wine tariffs
- Anson - had an immediate impact when they went into place in Nov 2019 on the French wine industry, pre-Covid (~April 2020), French wine was down 30% with Bordeaux down ~12%, the French had to battle with the US, China, and Brexit -> may lead to a bumpy start to 2021
- McCoy - mostly entry-level SKUs hit in Europe, made it challenging to offer the same wines by the glass in the US; impacted in the late spring / early summer as importers brought in containers ahead of the tariffs
Covid-19
- McCoy
  - Was able to shift sales more seamlessly from on-premise (restaurants) to off-premise (retailers) because the Heitz group started Domaine Estate, a domestic and international negociant
  - Focused on how to support restaurants and bought a lot of high-end wine at retail from restaurants
  - Heitz invested in outdoor furniture and golf carts to host guests outside in the vineyard
  - Increased digital marketing (social, email) and phone campaigns (which worked very well) -> increased direct sales 3x over 2019
  - Heitz was able to double down on tasting room construction during Covid
- Anson
  - Has seen a direct marketing ramp, wineries want a more personal relationship with people
  - Bordeaux chateaux - a little suspicious at first, now getting on board
  - Union de Grand Cru (“UGC”) wanted En Premier to be the normal way but canceled one week before and instead sent samples of wine all over the world
  - 67 Pall Mall, a private wine club in London - started Zoom tastings with sample bottles very quickly, after 6-7 months of events is evolving to more of a YouTube-like channel with higher production quality
  - European restaurant scene
    - France - better at supporting restaurants, also had clearer communication of the lockdown rules
    - UK - rules changed every week, very difficult to follow, some reports say ~30,000 restaurants closing
    - In France - a case of one restaurant winning an insurance claim for the closures, which is a big case to watch for precedent-setting for the industry; currently being challenged as most policies exclude major catastrophes
- McCoy - in the US, zero government response from restaurant associations seeking relief, >100,000 restaurants closed, many likely permanently
- Anson - launching Inside Bordeaux (Berry Bros, $80) during Covid has been challenging - issues with printing to furloughs at the publisher has made it a challenge
Social Justice / Black Lives Matter (“BLM”) / Female Rights Movements
- McCoy - 2020 was a continuation of movements that have been happening for >100 years, not unique to black people, but they are just the most outspoken; the support is more diverse now than it ever has been before
- Anson - Europe and the rest of the world embraced the movement, realizing that this impacts everybody and not just the US; heavily focused on identifying opportunities for people to get into the wine industry
  - Roederer pivoted from wine writing awards to diversity scholarships
- Fu - raised $60,000 for the NAACP in 2 days on Instagram and Facebook through a wine auction, was surprised how political it was perceived
- McCoy - the Court of Master Sommelier sexual misconduct scandal - “no one was surprised,” the restaurant culture is promiscuous in general -> the CMS is being forced to restructure like an actual company
- Anson - gender issues still a major issue in Europe with control and power still entrenched in a few white males, the En Magnum in France published a sexist cartoon, and when female journalists spoke up, they were hushed
Wildfires
- McCoy - fires have always happened in the West (of the US)
  - Heitz left 80% of the fruit on the vine in 2020
  - Believes that no one understands the science of smoke taint
  - Believes that reports that the whole vintage was lost in Napa were due to irresponsible journalism
  - Multiple samples of the same wine from labs showed different results for smoke taint - believes lab results are inaccurate
- Anson - Australia also hard hit by wildfires, especially the Yarra Valley and Kangaroo Island
Best Wine Book read this year
- Fu - Inside Burgundy by Jasper Morris MW
- McCoy - The Great Winemakers of California by Robert Benson
- Anson - Wine for Normal People by Elizabeth Schneider
Best Wines Tasted in 2020
- Fu - 2017 Liger Belair La Romanee, 1974 Heitz Cellars Martha’s Vineyard Cabernet Sauvignon, 1991 Chave Cuvée Cathelin Hermitage
- Anson - 1998 & 1999 tasting of Petrus, Lefleur, and Le Pin
- McCoy - 2002 Rene Engel Clos Vougeot, 2018 Jaimee Motley Peter Martin Ray Cabernet Sauvignon
- Vernick - 1964 Gaja Barbaresco, 1991 & 1994 Dunn Howell Mountain Cabernet

Wine for Normal People: A Guide for Real People Who Like Wine, but Not the Snobbery That Goes with It (Wine Tasting Book, Gift for Wine Lover)

Great Winemakers of California: Conversations with Robert Benson (Interviews with 28 California Winemakers)

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With four years of extreme fire season in Northern California, the study and importance of smoke taint is at all-time highs. Leading the charge is Dr. Anita Oberholster of UC Davis, who is collaborating globally to better understand the chemistry of smoke exposure and taint, how to measure it, what to do about it, and how to create new solutions to monitor and manage it. This episode packs everything you’d ever want to know about smoke taint in 50 minutes!

Detailed Show Notes:

Dr. Oberholster is an Extension Specialist in Oenology at UC Davis, which means she interacts more with industry than teaches, lots of applied research
From South Africa, she studied Biochemistry and has a Ph.D. in Wine Chemistry from South Australia
Definitions:
- Smoke taint - overpowers the wine, makes it one dimensional, and reduces the quality
- Smoke exposure - can have different levels of exposure, no index yet exists to track, but academics are collaborating on it
Smoke exposure is less about proximity, but how fast the smoke gets to you => very fresh, dense smoke = higher risk of smoke taint
Volatile phenols decay in the atmosphere, if it’s more than 24 hours old, there’s less risk
The ultimate goal - have a low-cost sense that detects volatile phenols to determine the smoke risk
Vineyards are most susceptible when there are berries on the vine
There’s no carryover effect from prior year fires
Testing grapes vs. wine - wine tests are more accurate because there are more free volatile phenols vs. bound with sugars
~20-25% of people aren’t sensitive to smoke taint
Testing is expensive and laborious, requires a gas chromatography, mass spectrometer
Crop insurance - covers grower if smoke exposure is above a certain level; it’s heavily subsidized by the government
There’s no correlation between thin and thick-skinned grapes and smoke taint
Alcohol (if >10%), sugar (if >3g/L), and phenolic compounds mask smoke character, and green character enhances the smoke character
Rose - gets ~30% of the volatile phenols vs. red wine but may still show taint relative to the lower concentration of compounds
Carbonic maceration - one of the worst for smoke taint
Sprays to prevent taint - results very variable so far
When there’s wetness/oiliness on berries, then to absorb more smoke taint
Washing fruit - unclear if this has any impact
Most wineries will not take the brand risk to release smoke tainted wine
Best practices for growers and wineries:
- Buy crop insurance for growers
- Contracts between growers and winery need to be as clear as possible, with a cutoff for smoke taint

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Detailed Show Notes:

Luxury Wine Marketing (“LWM”) was published in late 2019
- Contains industry best practices for how to sell luxury wines vs. more “commercial” wines
- Includes new research on the market size, customer segmentation, and frameworks for marketing luxury wines
Wine pricing segments
- The overall wine market has an average price of $7-8/bottle
- That makes $20+ sometimes classified as “luxury.”
- In LWM, luxury wine is more of a luxury good - where the product is used to differentiate
  - $50-99 - affordable luxury
  - $100-199 - everyday wine for the luxury buyer
  - $200-499 - special occasion luxury
  - $500-999 - icon wines
  - $1,000+ - dream wines
Luxury wine consumer segments
- The Wine Collector
- The Wine Geek - seeks knowledge.
- True Luxury Buyer - buys top brands.
- Aspirational Buyer - looks up to the True Luxury Buyer.
Brand impact on the price
- Dom Perignon is a special occasion wine at $170/bottle vs. if it was $40/bottle.
- Price signals an element of quality.
- Price makes some people think it’s better quality.
Strategies to launch luxury wines
- Build-up - start lower-priced and build-up
- Build-down - start higher and build-down
- Need a good story and quality to back up pricing
- E.g., Penfolds - from Grange to $10-15/bottle wines, Grange provides the halo effect for the cheaper wines as people to associate themselves with the brand
- Luxury branding - using price over value as the luxury driver, e.g., Harlan Estate
Luxury wine demand
- Sometimes when you increase the price, you increase demand
- 2 types of demand - consumption and investment demand
- Wineries want people to drink, not sell the wines, to keep the secondary market high
- Still need to have value - quality and reputation of the wines
- Burgundy - driven by wine collectors who want the scarce and rare
Tricks and tips for buying luxury wines
- Know what you like and target those types of wines
- If you want something special - brand strength is important, a la the gifting culture in China
- Follow critics whose palates are similar to yours and track there scores to find values
- Check out the best wines from less well-known parts of the world
Winery pricing strategy has 4 major determinants
- Quality
- Brand strength
- Competition
- External factors
How do some Napa wines come out of the gate pricing $250+?
- Sometimes they leverage the brand strength of the winemaker.
- Mostly selling to friends and family.
- Sometimes they need to play the long game and sit on wines for a while

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A global think tank, a research and action institute, ARENI Global is dedicated to understanding and sharing knowledge around the world of fine wine. Pauline Vicard, the Co-Founder and Executive Director, shares ARENI’s definition of fine wine and details findings from their research around the fine wine consumer. This includes how millennials are shifting the mindset of all fine wine consumers, how they are loyal to merchants over brands, and the differences between consumers in Hong Kong, mainland China, and Europe. Listen in and get to know the fine wine consumer better!

Detailed Show Notes:

ARENI Global - started as a think tank in 2017, gathering experts within and outside of the wine world, now a research and action institute with 3 steps: 1) understand the world 2) the impacts on the future of fine wine 3) what actions to take
ARENI deliverables
- Discussion platforms with peers
- Publish whitepapers, reports, articles
- Smaller events, panels
Fine wine definition
- Objective quality - complexity, length, balance, potential to age
- The capacity of fine wine to stop time, bring emotions
- Relationship with its maker - the authenticity of expression of the winemaker
- Price points - start at 30 euros ex-cellar, to the highest bracket of 450+ euros ex-cellar
The fine wine consumer
- ARENI interviews collectors and merchants every year
- Want to be treated as unique; curious - really into information; international; demanding; very loyal (not to wines/brand, but to several merchants) - trust is important; price-aware; masculine = getting more feminine (~15-20% today); getting young (now ~49, but getting younger)
- Use the internet to review prices and ratings
- Younger international / millennials - don’t have a lot of regional differences, often source wines from around the world; choose restaurants based on sommeliers and follow them on Instagram; learn from the internet
- Hong Kong - buy to possess, only buy through friends, interested in famous history or personalities, not vineyards and soil
- Mainland China - buy to drink, only buy through friends, use the internet to make sure wine exists and isn’t counterfeit
- When prices rise for specific wines or regions, those buyers move on to other wines/regions; the brands find new customers in different regions
Fine wine regions
- mostly the classics, Bordeaux (70%), Burgundy rising, Italy, and Champagne
- California has not impacted much because very little sold internationally, though more via La Place de Bordeaux; taste profile too powerful, Super Tuscans more similar to Bordeaux and better-perceived value
4 types of fine wine consumers - fairly equally distributed between each
- Passionate - addicted to knowledge, mentorship important
- Status Seekers - buy the label, belong to a group, approved by influencers
- Collector Drinkers - buy and sell wines, make money to buy more wine
- Affluent - people who are rich and want to drink better wines
Millennial mindset - impacting other groups with their mindset - want to be considered as an individual, demanding, likes sustainability, social media use; the challenge is the affordability of fine wine
People tend to learn about fine wine through family consumption (especially in Europe), work (especially in the US), bought fine wine when it was cheaper years ago, mentorship (often from merchants and sommeliers), interest in food, and travel

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Jeff Zacharia, President of Zachy’s, the global leader in wine auctions, tells us about how they made wine auctions more fun, have been moving to studio sales and bidding parties without live auctions, and how they narrowly escaped being swindled by Rudy Kurniawan’s wine fraud scheme. We learn all about the wine auction process, what regions are trending, and where he sees the market going. Don’t forget to rate and review XChateau wherever you get your podcasts!

Detailed Show Notes:

Zachy’s founded in 1944 by Jeff’s grandfather, Jeff joined in 1983
Zachy’s wine auctions started in 1995 when wine auction became legal in NY, started with a partnership with Christie’s, and then went independent in 2002
Expanded to Hong Kong in 2008 and London in 2020
- London is to expand in Europe, believes it is underserved from a wine auction perspective
- Having wines in Europe enables quicker delivery for European customers
London was the wine auction capital, then became New York, then Hong Kong, now it’s in between New York and Hong Kong
Auction Process
- Send a list of wines, get a low and high estimate, sign a consignment contract
- Organize wines to Zachy’s warehouse, catalog wines in detail (including fill, labels, etc.…), and print catalog, either electronic or print
- 3 methods of auctions - live auction, studio sales (live auctions online), and internet / timed sales
- Zachy’s differentiation - great effort in researching and inspecting the wines
Auction Market
- Saw steady growth year over year, with a spike in 2019 due to big sales
- 2020 - beating projections (12% above projections)
Zachy’s leadership - how they became the #1 wine auction house globally
- Wine is all they do. They are focused and passionate about it
- Jeff has been in the wine business for 40 years and built deep, long-term relationships
- The team has invested years building their relationships with collectors and wineries
- Innovations - centered around making auctions fun and engaging
  - Changed from the classic auditorium-style auctions to restaurant-style with food and wine
  - Bidding parties - often for studio sales, smaller gatherings around the world (e.g., Sweden, London, Germany, China, Hong Kong) that have the same food and wine atmosphere connected via Zoom to the auction
  - Investigating how to make virtual auctions more interactive
Auction business model
- Currently focused on buyer’s premium
- May have seller’s commission, but depends on consignment size - the larger the consignment, the smaller the commission; substantial sales may even have rebates from the buyer’s premiums
- Getting more consignors is the challenge currently
- Expect prices to continue to rise - quality keeps rising (especially weaker vintages), and more collectors out there for a relatively inexpensive luxury
Growing auction markets - Burgundy remains strong, some growth in Champagne and Rhone, California hasn’t yet gotten traction - potentially due to a different style of wine than those who are buying Burgundy
Provenance premium often from ~20-200%
Producer direct - can introduce or reintroduce wines to Zachy’s buyer base, sharing these wines for them to taste, and another way to help build the brand
Scores declining in importance with more wine critics
To be auctionable - need quality, rarity, and fashionable - what people are looking for
Rudy Kurniawan story - bought a lot of wine from a Zachy’s auction and never paid, sent a list of wine to be sold in order to pay, but Zachy’s was uncomfortable with the wines (~60% seemed suspect) and rejected the whole consignment

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With a 25 year history, WineBid is the oldest and largest online wine auction site. The original wine re-commerce platform, Russ tells us about the auction process from the buyer and seller perspective as well as all the data they collect and display for the wines. This includes innovations such as a 360-degree bottle shot, price history charts, and new functionality like their customized shipping feature. He even spills the beans on a few tips and tricks to getting the best deals on WineBid!

Detailed Show Notes:

Russ’ background - software and e-commerce at realtor.com, myfico.com, gazelle.com, and also had a vineyard in Temecula, California, growing Syrah and Tempranillo
WineBid - 25 years old, based in Seattle with operations in Napa, the oldest and largest wine auction site
Weekly auctions - open at 7:15 pm PST on Sundays, closes at 7 pm PST the next Sunday
- All items open at the same time
- Pro’s get 1st 5-10 minutes to view and place bids
- What doesn’t sell rolls into the following week
- Now introducing some wines mid-week, with most wines going in one week
- Set good reserves upfront
WineBid Sunday Night is "appointment internet" - people watch the auctions' final minutes with a good bottle of wine, watching some wines get bid up
Can monitor all bids at once with WineBid
For Sellers of wine
- Consignors are mostly private individuals
- Most sales are for $10,000-$1M+, ideally $100+ average bottle value
- Sellers send their list and get an estimate
- WineBid does the appraisal and after agreeing with consignor, ships wine to the Napa warehouse
- Wines are inspected, authenticated, and photographed
- Once sold, sellers get a check or electronic wire transfer
- As part of an estimate, for larger cellars, WineBid will help catalog and pre-inspect on-site
Reasons people sell wines
- As in many businesses, the 3 D’s - divorce, debt, and death
- People also have their tastes change and swap out what’s in their cellars
- They move and want to downsize their cellar
- Spouse/partners - may force sales before they can buy more
Wine as an investment - WineBid was featured in an article in the Economist, conducting a 15-year analysis
- Basket of Burgundy wines would have outperformed the S&P 500
- Basket of Bordeaux wines would have been close to the S&P 500
- Need to think of total transaction costs- transactions costs higher for wine as an investment, as a physical asset
Consignment vs cash buyout for wine sellers - generally make more money consigning and capture more upside, but takes more time and can get paid sooner, at a discount, with immediate cash buyout
Business model
- Seller commissions - at most auction houses 5-25%, larger the consignment, the lower the premium
- Buyer’s premiums - generally 15-25%, 17% at WineBid vs ~20-25% for live auctions
Buyer demographics - ~135-150,000 registered bidders
- 70% US, 20% Asia, 10% Europe
- ⅔ Male, ⅓ Female
- Upper middle income and higher-tech, finance, professionals (lawyers, doctors)
- Demographics getting younger, particularly in 2020 -> interested in a broader selection of wines with higher mobile usage
- Most learn about WineBid via word of mouth, recently doing more social and digital advertising and trying to make the experience more personal
Tips & Tricks for buyers
- Bid early, put in 1st bid at the reserve, and set your max price upfront -> this may discourage others from bidding on the wine
- Don’t get emotional and chase the wine up
- Look for wines that you know you’ll like without scores or in the 90-93 point range (94+ get big premiums); analysis based on average critic scores
Only ~3% of the wine market is online, ~$10B online with a $325B overall market
- Covid pandemic accelerated the move online by ~7 years
- E.g., Wine.com setting record numbers and seeking capital at ~$1B valuation
- GoPuff buying Bevmo
WineBid Innovations
- 360-degree hi-res bottle shots
- One of the best for still photography in wine auctions
- Shipping functionality - can see everything you have and pick and choose what and when to ship
- Some of the most detailed condition notes on bottles
- Wine price chart for the history of the bottle, like a Zillow Zestimate
Most expensive wine sold on the site - a $50,000 bottle of Rose from Sine Qua Non
Provenance premiums
- Don’t see significant premiums on provenance
- No significant premiums for original wood cases (“OWC”) - buyers often don’t want to pay extra to ship the wood case
- Certificates of authenticity not seeing significant premiums
- Label appearance is important to many buyers
The proliferation of wine critics and influencers has led to some influencers rivaling and outpacing traditional media

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In this episode, we learn about the wine auction market from Jaime Ritchie, Worldwide Head of Wine at Sotheby’s, one of the leaders in the space. We discuss how wine auctions work, how finding in-demand wines to sell is the current challenge, and the increasing digitization and diversification of the space. From moving to more online auctions, younger buyers from more diverse backgrounds and geographies, to how tariffs and taxes and reshaped the wine auction landscape, this episode is a must-listen if you have any interest in the world of fine and rare wines.

Detailed Show Notes:

Sotheby’s founded in 1744, wine division in 1970 - started with wine auctions in London
Expanded wine auctions to New York and London, which also has retail
Spirits getting to be a bigger part of their business, 3% in 2018, up to 19% in 2020
How auctions work
- Find the wine and collections
- Create auction estimates (low - high estimates) and suggested reserve (confidential between auction house and seller)
- Logistics - go-to wines, photograph, and ship
- Terms & consignment agreement with seller signed
- Data entry and presentation of the collection to maximize value
- Publish auction catalog and marketing
- Live auction
- Invoicing
The auction process normally takes 6 weeks - 3 months. Large collections often require 6 months - 2 years lead time
Auction vs. retail - auctions for rare wines or full cases, retail more for futures, latest vintages, more diverse way to buy wines (by the bottle or by the case)
The wine auction market - ~$500M / year
- Sotheby’s had record sales in 2019 ($118M), up 20% from the prior year
- The average lot size is ~$7,500 / lot (2019)
- Covid impact - fewer wines on the market, makes operations more difficult -> lower overall sales value and volumes
- Market pricing still strong, likely due to stock market strength and low volumes, unlike during the Great Recession where prices fell 40%
- The buyer set is expanding
  - Age - buyers getting younger
  - Geographically - more Asian and South American buyers
- Long-term - the price of wine will rise as more people want to drink, and a relatively fixed supply of the best wines
Asia market - Sotheby’s started in 2009 - $40M, $55M in 2010
- Asian buyers are the least price-sensitive, used to be US market
- Wines now go from EU/US -> Asia vs EU -> US before
- Largely influenced by Hong Kong wine import tax rate going to 0%
- The only cost to get wine there is to ship containers (~$6-10k / container)
UK market - less competitive auction market, more competitive fine wine market; Brexit impact - trying to find ways to mitigate the impact, expecting a minimal overall impact
US market - most competitive auction market, w/ tariffs, no collections being shipped to the US
Logistics - offer shipments from NY to Hong Kong 3x / year
- Overall, it depends on the laws and customs of each country or state
- In general, it is the buyer’s responsibility to move the wine after purchase
Digital transition
- Planned only 6 online auctions and 20 in-person ones in 2020, ended up being mostly online
- New digital Sotheby’s auction platform - was planning 3-5 year transition, did it in 3 months
- Online to be the common marketplace with live auctions for special collections
- Can still do events with online auctions - Robert Drouhin auction - dinner in Hong Kong with a live auction in London
Business Model
- Online still costs the same to process wines vs. live auctions
- Buyer’s premiums rising because the main issue is sourcing the wines
- In 1990 - used to be a 10% sales commission with no buyer’s premium, now no commission and all buyer’s premium
Growth areas after the price of Burgundy has skyrocketed - Rhone, Italy (Tuscany, Piedmont), Champagne, German Wines; CA and Bordeaux have been flat
Investable vs. Auctionable wines - investable wine have a belief that they will increase in value, auctionable just need a secondary market value, may not need to appreciate, be in good condition, and authentic
The provenance of wines can drive big premiums
- Lafite direct from Chateau auction (2010) - $7M sale vs $1M low estimate - 7x
- Robert Drouhin sale of ‘45 DRC Romanee Conti - 17x estimate, $550k per bottle, a world record bottle price
Auction market good at maximizing value for wines that have appreciated and for re-setting prices, not good at launching new wines
Critics scores less important post-Robert Parker. No one has the same influence. People now aggregate 2-3 different critics scores, market-moving away from it
The Auction Buyer - getting more diverse from all angles
- Mostly men, wish there were more females
- 50% of 1st-time buyers in their 20s and 30s
- 50% of Hong Kong buyers in their 20s and 30s
- 60% worldwide buyers in 30s and 40s
- In 1990, the average age of a buyer was 65
- Used to be heavy finance-driven, now more tech and real estate
- Asia and N America consistent, with Mexico and Brazil buyers coming in and out
The Auction Seller
- 3 D’s - debt, death, and divorce -> even more with Covid; + doctor’s orders for wine
- Most people have purchased too much wine, they can’t consume it in their lifetime, so it goes on sale
- When people have children, they entertain at home more -> drives more buying

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XChateau is a podcast about all things wine, from vine to your glass. We tackle the business of wine and keep you up to date with new and exciting developments in the wine industry.

In this episode, Robert Vernick and Peter Yeung interview Tom Lutz, Founder & Creator of Repour Wine Saver, one of the leading new inventions in wine preservation technology. We discuss the technology, how people have learned about it, the differences between Coravin and Repour, and what the future holds.

Other topics covered in this episode include:

Tom is a chemist by trade (worked in biodiesel, aquarium products)
Repour was invented when he had a newborn son and ended up pouring half bottles of wine down the drain.
Technology:
- Uses food grade oxygen absorbers
- Binds the oxygen, of which the atmosphere has 21%, does not replace it.
- Requires air to exchange and remove the oxygen, so the bottle needs to be stored vertically
The capacity of the stopper
- Built for 5 pours of one bottle, glass by glass - this would expose the wine to 1,500 ml of air.
- The max amount a stopper has to handle is 2,000 ml of air.
Uses recyclable materials. However, many municipal grids have 3”x3” grids that filter out small objects; for large customers, they do take back repours to recycle
Pricing
- Consumer: 4-pack ($8.99 / $2.25 each), 10-pack ($17.99 / $1.80 each), 72-pack ($120 / $1.67 each)
- There are often promotions via the email list.
- The future target price point is $1/stopper or lower.
- Trade: 4x72-pack (288 stoppers) - starts at $0.83 / stopper
Customers
- Started with on-premise (restaurants)
- With COVID - moved more to consumers.
- Wineries - have been using for virtual tastings and wine club gifts, also several doing custom branding.
Coravin vs. Repour - both work.
- Coravin is better for tasting and cellaring wine.
- Repour is for enjoying wine like you normally would and saving the remainder of the bottle for later.
Marketing
- Mostly word of mouth
- After 1 year of testing the science, Tom started with a local sommelier group that did a blind tasting, and Repour worked great.
- TEXSOM - gave out samples, and many conversations have come back to that event
Duration of effectiveness - weeks or months, Repour has tested out to 6-7 months.
The Future - potentially replaceable inserts, sparkling wine and possibly showing how much oxygen-absorbing capacity is left.

If you loved this episode, we would love for you to subscribe, rate, and review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, cheers!

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XChateau is a podcast about all things wine, from vine to your glass. We tackle the business of wine and keep you up to date with new and exciting developments in the wine industry.

In this episode, Robert Vernick and Peter Yeung interview Greg Lambrecht, Founder & Chairman of Coravin, leading wine preservation and access technology. We discuss the technology, how to get the most out of the Coravin, how people learn about coravin, and what is in store for the future.

Other topics covered in this episode include:

Greg fell in love with wine in Napa at age 16
Works in medical devices
Was frustrated with how to explore wine without committing to the whole bottle
Coravin’s goal: to change the way wine is served and sold
Founding:
- 1st prototype - 1999
- A patent filed - 2004
- Company founded - 2011
- The product launched - 2013
Technology - basic components existed before Coravin but needed a lot of refinement
- Surgical grade needle - started with 3 types
- Gases - started with 4 types (CO2, helium, argon, & nitrogen)
- Gas pressure - biggest invention is the pressure regulator
Capsule uses
- Don’t hold the trigger for a long time; use multiple very short presses to get the most out of the capsule; Want to hear as little as possible when the Coravin is tilted back up
- The average is 15 full glasses/capsule - can get up to 20-24 if used right
- @ 15 glasses/capsule, each glass is ~$0.50 for argon gas
Coravin models
- Model 3 - $199 (entry pricing) - all the functionality, but only in grey and single design
- Model 5-6 - has different colors and finishes
- Model 11 - removed hand clamp, now uses a smart clamp (which is now across the range); automatic pourer - can set up the amount to pour on you phone
Needles
- Vintage needle (silver ring) - pours more slowly, can use up to 19th-century wines
- Fast flow needle (red ring) - 30%+ faster, can use for corks up to 15 years old, mostly for restaurants
- Standard needle (black ring) - can use up to wines from the 1960s
- Professional needle (gold ring) - rare and expensive, like a blend of the vintage needle and standard needle
- Need to replace needle every 500-1,000 uses, if it’s hard to insert the needle and/or there is silver at the end (the Teflon is wearing off), it’s time to replace the needle
- Cut foil to improve needle life
- Don’t use on synthetic corks, vinolok (glass corks)
- Northern Italian wines and Diam corks - corks are harder and reduce needle life, but okay to use
For best usage - use the 4 C’s
- Clean - need to wash it after use, rinse with hot water through the spout at the end of the evening
- Clear - give the trigger a quick press before you go onto the next bottle
- Cellar - still need to protect the bottle and store wine as you would for aging
- Cork - don’t use on bad corks - a simple trick, push down on a cork, if it slides, don’t use Coravin
- The drop of wine at the top - when you remove the needle, it drags a bead of wine as the cork closes, does not mean the cork has not sealed
- “Cold and old” - colder and older bottles have less elastic corks and take longer to heal. Leave them standing up for five minutes before putting in the cellar
Coravin screwcap
- Markets that wines will last for 3 months, but has seen 10-18 months
- Trick - only need 1 screwcap module for long-term storage, put the original screwcap back on after pouring with Coravin, and will be fine
Coravin marketing - how people hear about it
- 1 - at wineries - for pouring library wines, etc.…
- 2 - restaurants and wine bars
- 3 - at a friend’s home (word of mouth) - this is becoming the #1-way people hear about it in the US
Distribution
- In 60+ countries
- Start almost exclusively in trade. Over time, consumer demand outstrips trade
- US - 80-90% sold to consumers, China - predominantly trade
- With the Covid pandemic - 75% of business is now online
The Future - the mission is to make it faster, easier, and more fun than opening a bottle; sparkling wine is in the works
An MW tested preservation technologies for his research paper, and the Coravin was the only product that worked

If you loved this episode, we would love for you to subscribe, rate, and review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, cheers!

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XChateau is a podcast about all things wine, from vine to your glass. We tackle the business of wine and keep you up to date with new and exciting developments in the wine industry.

In this episode, Robert Vernick and Peter Yeung interview Paul Yanon, Vice President of Wine, for Colangelo & Partners, a New York-based PR agency focused on wine, food, and spirits. We discuss the differences between working with European vs. American wineries, how the return on investment (“ROI”) is changing in the PR space, and how Justin Timberlake and ‘N SYNC have parallels with wine PR.

Other topics covered in this episode include:

Paul is Australian and grew up around wine. His move to the US provided more insight into European and South American wines.
Colangelo & Partners - founded in 2006, the largest fine wine agency in the US with ~55 people
PR scope:
- Media relations (traditional)
- Digital (e.g., TikTok, Twitch, Instagram, Facebook)
- Events
Writers need good content, and PR people need conversations to get content out there.
PR can bridge what’s in the bottle with the how and why of the wine - important for critics to have a full understanding.
Publications are moving to a younger audience - includes connecting on digital platforms.
Digital helps track ROI - final conversion to sale is the “holy grail,”; historically measured by “page space,” now using more robust metrics, including “share of voice.”
Geographic differences in working with clients
- Europeans - more trust that agency knows the US market
- Americans - debate using a PR firm in NYC vs. locally, want PR agency to be an extension of the team
Criteria for a wine brand to be a good fit for PR - need volume, access, and availability
Direct-to-consumer (“DTC”) channels can be more cost-efficient than trade - don’t require as much face to face interaction.
Trade requires messaging for both consumers and trade, need to be in front of trade, and need a reason to displace another brand off their list.
Campaign Examples:
- Portuguese Cork Association - found historic (Hamilton era) Madeira bottles - had them resealed with cork and auctioned off. The effort was filmed, and a museum exhibit was created; showcased how cork has performed over the centuries.
- Napa Valley Vintners - had Shake Shack participate in a promotion.
Wine PR agencies are a good place for sommeliers to work - good storytellers who have a passion for the product.

If you loved this episode, we would love for you to subscribe, rate, and review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, cheers!

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XChateau is a podcast about all things wine, from vine to your glass. We tackle the business of wine and keep you up to date with new and exciting developments in the wine industry.

In this episode, Robert Vernick and Peter Yeung interview Morgan Moore, Director, and Alex Fondren, Associate Director, of Glodow Nead Communications, one of the largest independent lifestyle PR agencies focused on hospitality, food and beverage, retail, and real estate. We discuss how wine is consumable art, the relevancy of trade magazines and wine critics, and how Glodow Nead creates partnerships between clients to develop great synergies.

Other topics covered in this episode include:

Glodow Nead - started in the entertainment industry (“meat in seats”), the 1st West Coast agency to have offices in Asia (Singapore, Shanghai)
Sample beverage clients: Plumpjack Group, Pine Ridge, Donum Estate, Seghesio, Bodega Garzon (Uruguay), Phantom Creek Estates (Okanagan Valley, Canada)
PR firms - the primary job is to secure earned media
Earned media - articles (or broadcast, social media) that are not an advertisement, has not been paid for or in exchange for the product; more trusted than paid media
Wine is “consumable art” that can’t be compared to any other consumer product
Wine critics are still relevant - for collectors, at point of sale
Trade magazines shifting focus - Wine Enthusiast has been promoting celebrity wines
Wine coverage has grown beyond trade magazines to other media
3 goals for PR firms for wineries: drive sales, brand awareness, & brand relevancy
Business model: monthly retainer, 1-year contracts with a 30-day notice for cancellation; generally $5-20,000 per month
PR ROI: give earned media the same value as a paid advertisement (e.g., a 1-page feature article in Travel + Leisure may be worth $5-10,000 as the cost of the equivalent advertisement)
Article lead times
- Long lead times - e.g., Wine Spectator works 6 months in advance
- Medium lead times - e.g., San Francisco or Los Angeles Magazine work 3 months in advance
- Shorter lead times - e.g., Wine Spectator Online works within the week
Glodow Nead differentiation
- More than just wine - can bring more stories to more journalists, including lifestyle publications
- Global clients - journalists get more excited about the potential to write about topics globally
- Partnerships between clients (e.g., hotels, resorts, celebrity chefs)
- Big events department
Example campaigns:
- Plumpjack Winery - hired Glodow Nead because of entertainment experience - wanted to bottle their most expensive wine in screwcaps - the screwcap vs. cork campaign was one of the most successful ever
- Flowers Winery - opened a new tasting room and articles about it drove traffic to their site
- Partnership Examples: St Regis SF’s Polo Cup with Hamel Family Wines, Ritz Carlton Lake Tahoe, hosted high-end wine dinners and private dinners with wine clients, Napa Valley Wine Train hosts winemaker dinners and spotlight tastings
Traits for good wine PR people - 1st be obsessed with media, then wine knowledge

If you loved this episode, we would love for you to subscribe, rate, and review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, cheers!

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XChateau is a podcast about all things wine, from vine to your glass. We tackle the business of wine and keep you up to date with new and exciting developments in the wine industry.

In this episode, Robert Vernick and Peter Yeung interview Stephanie Teuwen, President and Co-Founder of Teuwen Communications, an award-winning, PR agency focused on food, wine, and spirits. We discuss what a PR firm does in wine, how wine PR differs from other consumer brands PR, and the business model of PR.

Other topics covered in this episode include:

Stephanie’s background - in restaurants, from Provence, France
Founded Teuwen Communications, splitting from a larger PR firm, to support a single restaurant
Goals of a PR firm - build and expand awareness; support sales (PR efforts need to go back to the bottom line)
Scope of PR efforts
- Earned media
  - The PR firm is a strategic storyteller to journalists
  - Written, video, podcasts, audio
  - Build relationships with media, work as a team with journalists
  - 70% of the press is driven by media and public relations
  - Written publications often plan out 6 months in advance
  - Major wine magazines - have a core base that reads them, but pivoted to move a lot of content online, important for trade
  - Gets ~100-500 articles / year for clients
- Influencer marketing
  - Influencers need to have a true voice
  - Voice should resonate with their audience
  - Influencers important to democratize wine
- Advertising - Often to amplify the voices of other efforts
- Events - both virtual and in-person
Measuring sales and PR impact - through traffic and sales on the website, anecdotes from customers, how the brand is portrayed
The difference between wine PR and non-wine
- Passion for the product
- Wine knowledge, highly technical - often have wine certifications
- Don’t work with celebrities - a different area of PR
Wineries need good distribution (either direct-to-consumer or trade) to make PR investment worthwhile
Business model - min investment ~$50-60,000 per year
Campaign example - Wines of Alsace - “Alsace Rocks”
- Trying to engage with a younger audience
- 360 campaign - trade, events, influencer marketing
- The client now rolling out globally

If you loved this episode, we would love for you to subscribe, rate, and review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, cheers!

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XChateau is a podcast about all things wine, from vine to your glass. We tackle the business of wine and keep you up to date with new and exciting developments in the wine industry.

In this episode, Robert Vernick and Peter Yeung interview Carlos de Jesus, Director of Marketing and Communications for Amorim Cork in Portugal, the largest cork company in the world which is celebrating its 150 year anniversary in 2020. We discuss the various uses of cork, the differences between corks and other closures, and how the business of cork has evolved over the decades.

Other topics covered in this episode include:

Amorim - 150-year history, largest cork company in the world, produces 5.5 billion stoppers per year, over 18,000 winery clients globally, most small
Sources cork from 1,000s of property owners, mostly in Portugal and Spain
Uses of cork: wine, footwear, fishing, aerospace, flooring, and sports
Differences between cork and other closures: technical, sustainability, and additional value add
Technical differences
- Oxygen transfer rate (OTR) - plastic (lets in too much oxygen), screwcap (lets in too little), cork (“just right”)
- Average cork has 800 million cells in it
- TCA - “we have defeated TCA” - mitigated to the point where cork is now gaining market share
- Consistency of corks - not an issue for technical stoppers (micro agglomerates, twin top), the technology used to help with natural corks
Sustainability - people, planet, profits
- CO2 - a single cork can have up to 562 g CO2 sink per stopper
- Cork harvesting one of the best paid agricultural jobs, ~€125-135 / day for three months/year
- Cork forests one of 36 hot spots for biodiversity in the world
- Also fights forest fires, regulates water cycles, and trees live 200-250 years
- Corks are both compostable and recyclable (e.g. - ReCORK America)
Additional value add = the happy sound of a cork popping
- Of 100 most sold brands in the US (data from Nielson), the average price of wine with cork is consistently higher than other closures
Closure market
- 19.5B closures per year
- 12.5B closed with cork (~70%)
- 1.8-1.9B single-use plastic stoppers
The price of cork ranges from €0.04 - 3.00 per cork
- Screwcaps (the lowest price), plastic, cork
- Cork can now sometimes undercut the price of plastic
Supply and demand for cork
- 2.2M hectares of cork forests in the Western Mediterranean - lots of trees to supply the current industry
- Takes 43 years for a cork tree to supply cork for a wine closure -> new research with micro-irrigation is reducing the first harvest from 25 years to 10-12 years

If you loved this episode, we would love for you to subscribe, rate, and review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, cheers!

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XChateau is a podcast about all things wine, from vine to your glass. We tackle the business of wine and keep you up to date with new and exciting developments in the wine industry.

In this episode, Robert Vernick and Peter Yeung interview Brian Retherford, founder of Claudine Wines, a modern, American micro-negociant. We discuss the wine market inefficiencies that make a negociant model possible, how the wines of Claudine differ from the wineries’ wines, and where the best deals will be going forward.

Other topics covered in this episode include:

Brain’s background - 15 years in the US Army, now a cybersecurity consultant
Started by doing a Crushpad project - micro winemaking project that ended up being too expensive with insufficient quality
Types of negociant models
- Buying fruit
- Buying bulk wine
- Buying finished wine in a barrel - Claudine’s main focus
- Buying bottled wine
Market inefficiencies in the wine industry
- Takes 3-4 years from harvest decision to selling wine, which creates supply/demand mismatches
- Other opportunities: tasting room that burnt down in the fires, the winery decided not to release a wine it made to focus on the core region, yield variations year to year creating more wine
What can Claudine put on the wine label
- Try to be as specific as possible - using the AVA, but can’t discuss producer, winemaker, or vineyards usually
- Often shares a copy of language with winery before releasing
Sustainability of the business
- Keep small scale (3-5 barrel projects) and do more projects vs bigger projects
- Focus on higher-value - if a similar wine could be bought at Costco, won’t do the project
- Curating great product and building customer trust over time
Differences between Claudine and the winery’s wine
- Might be the same - “the last 100 cases off the line” or already bottled wine
- Some wine that didn’t make it into the final blend and have extra barrels
The wine bulk market
- Bifurcated between top juice and commodity wines
- The upper end is more competitive
Winery options other than negociants to sell excess wine
- Don’t produce (often not done b/c the marginal cost to produce is small)
- Lower price (not a popular option in the US)
- Sell to flash sale sites (e.g. - Last Bottle, WTSO)
- Wine gets “poured out” or destroyed
Claudine customer demographics
- CA - had wine events pre-COVID
- NY, Boston, Kansas City - where Brian used to live
- Brian knows about 1 in 10 customers now
- Skews older in the age group
Upcoming deals - likely good opportunities by focusing on deepening relationship in Napa

If you loved this episode, we would love for you to subscribe, rate, and review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, cheers!

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XChateau is a podcast about all things wine, from vine to your glass. We tackle the business of wine and keep you up to date with new and exciting developments in the wine industry.

In this episode, Robert Vernick and Peter Yeung interview Juliana Colangelo, Vice President of Colangelo & Partners’ San Francisco Office. Colangelo & Partners is an integrated communications agency for food, wine, and spirits brands. Robert and Peter discuss how wine brands should plan, execute, and measure the results of social media influencer campaigns, covering details like budget, how to find the right influencers, and what to expect from the campaign.

Other topics covered in this episode include:

Why use influencers?
- 74% of people use social networks for purchasing decisions
- Reach younger audience - 44% of Gen Z drinking more during COVID
- Build brand awareness
- Influencer marketing a convergence of earned (journalist driven) and paid media advertising
Influencer platforms
- Mostly Instagram - IG reels (new) are like TikTok
- TikTok and YouTube a little
- Web blogs
Content - what are you trying to say about your brand?
- Get real-life situations with brand
- Own the content and can incorporate into brand social and web strategies
Outcomes - brand awareness, build a social following, email signups, sales
- Based on the brand business model - availability of DTC, etc
Tracking - UTM codes in links with story swipes, follower counts around a campaign
Budget - based on the size of influencers and campaign
- By influencer following
  - Nano - 1.5-2.5k followers
  - Micro - 2.5-15k followers; ~$250/post
  - Mid-tier - 20-100k followers; ~$750-1,000/post
  - Macro - 200k+
  - Celebrities - start at $250k
- Some influencers post organically (just for the product)
- Some influencers have media kits with pricing
- Other costs
  - Agency to manage campaign - find target influencers, negotiate influencer contracts
  - Product and shipping
  - Optional: Advertising behind social media strategy
- Normally at least 5 influencer partners, around the same time to create buzz
Goals - smaller wineries target general brand awareness, larger wineries often want to promote a specific wine or new campaign
Types of influencers - 50/50 on non-beverage vs beverage influencers, depending on the audience the brand is trying to reach
Types of content
- Posts
- Stories - usually 3-4 frames, usually cheaper than posts since they are less produced and more casual
- Video (YouTube, other) - more expensive
- Web blog - more permanent, hits SEO
Finding influencers - Colangelo uses DoveTale
- Look at the following and engagement rate
- Content subject (e.g. - have they posted about wine before?)
- Tone of content
- Production quality
Longer-term relationships - can be like a brand ambassador, multiple touchpoints for consumers
The brand direction of content
- If only sending product - no control
- Paid contract - can have brand guidelines (hashtags, tone of voice, keywords, can ask to see content before posted)
Calls to action: follow the brand page, swipe up, promote events/ticket link, donate for fundraising/auctions
Best campaign: Prosecco DOC for Prosecco week - did video content, food pairings, partnered with ~350 retailers and 15-20 influencers

If you loved this episode, we would love for you to subscribe, rate, and review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, cheers!

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XChateau is a podcast about all things wine, from vine to your glass. We tackle the business of wine and keep you up to date with new and exciting developments in the wine industry.

In this episode, Robert Vernick and Peter Yeung interview wine influencer Nicole Muscari (Instagram: @grapechic). Nicole tells Robert and Peter about her journey from a career in dance to fashion and then into wine. Having built a 23.5k+ Instagram following and launching a wine blog, Nicole has become the Private Client Sales rep for the Northeast for Chateau de Pommard.

Other topics covered in this episode include:

BFA in dance, her first job was with Carnival Cruise Line
Worked at Walt Disney World and wanted to be Princess Jasmine
Visited Napa in 2014 and fell in love with wine
Quintessa was the experience that stood out, and she’s still in their wine club
Founding member of The Chelsea Wine Society
- Started when Charlotte (thelondonwinegirl) was in NYC
- Invited a group of Instagram wine folks to a Chapel Down tasting
- Became a study group for WSET courses
- Members would post on IG, which got wineries wanting to send them wines and do tastings
Fellow Instagrammer (idream.o.vino) asked her if she was interested in wine as a job and introduced her to her current job
Private Client Sales for Chateau de Pommard
- Manages direct sales for the Northeast US
- Launching a members-only, interactive platform soon
  - Pay a yearly membership fee
  - Live experiences for wines/regions from all over the world
  - Wine advisors host experiences
  - Get sent small tasting tubes to try
  - Option to buy the wines
Social media platforms
- Instagram focus, started 3 years ago, was part of the “1st wave” of wine influencers - grew to 10,000 followers in 1st year, lots of engagement to grow base (answering comments / DMs)
- Has FB, Twitter - just mirror content
- Pinterest - never pinned
Social has a side hustle
- Press trips, samples, sponsored posts
- Does ~2 paid sponsorships/month
Interacting with wine brands
- Transparency is key - say right off the bat if you want to just send samples or do a paid partnership
- Email is preferred over DMs
- Has media kit
  - Regular posts (usually with 3-5 stories)
  - IGTV tastings with brands
  - Live Tastings (30 mins about the wines)
  - Website / blog packages
- ad - reach is usually less than without it
- Paid sponsorships - a brand can boost the posts (Gerard Bertrand did this on Facebook)
- Successful partnerships
  - Lovejadot - Giveaways, Instagram Live, and Posts
  - Wine regions - Vinho Verde, Loire Valley, Discover Bojo
Print vs social media
- Print is longer-lasting, enables search, good SEO articles have a greater impact than social
- Instagram gets more engagement, but because it’s easier, posts die after a while
Instagram demographics
- 55% male, 45% female
- Female younger (25-35), male (35-45)
- US, Italy, France, UK, Brazil
- Cities - NY, Paris, London
Content Strategy
- Closer photos work better than further away
- The wine matters - better wines get more engagement
- Known for her shoe collection
Wine education - adds value to the content

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XChateau is a podcast about all things wine, from vine to your glass. We tackle the business of wine and keep you up to date with new and exciting developments in the wine industry.

In this episode, Robert Vernick and Peter Yeung interview John Jackson (Instagram: @attorneysomm), an attorney by day, wine drinker by night. We ask John about how he got started in wine blogging and built his 11,000+ Instagram account in less than two years. Robert and Peter discuss the methods John used to build his following, the Sips Around the Globe Initiative (Instagram: @sips.aroundtheglobe), and how he works with wineries to build their brand awareness.

Other topics covered in this episode include:

2007 Opus One - the wine that got him into wine
His favorite wines - Northern Rhones and older wines
Start with Instagram
- Nov 2018 - when he transitioned his personal account to attorneysomm
- Used it as a creative outlet for his business travel
- Posts 2-3x/week because of large time commitment to respond and engage with followers, he gets ~200 comments per post
Other social platforms
- Facebook - mostly just mirrors the posts
- Twitter - just started trying to figure this out
- TikTok - claimed the name, but haven’t done much yet
Wine education - in the process of doing the WSET Diploma
Following demographics
- ~33% US, Italy, France, Brazil (6.5%), UK
- 60% male, 40% female
- 82% 25-55 years old
Growing his followership
- Trips and winery tours built some followers
- Watched YouTube videos on how to grow followers for a month
- Staggers content to not be too repetitive
- Good content is key
- Responding to people
- Supporting others who support him
Mistakes in growing followers
- Follow for follow back
- Posted more about restaurants vs wine - good to have a niche in the algorithm, moved food content to stories
Sips Around the Globe
- Group of 11 influencers, each in a different country
- 100k collective followers
- Works with wineries to reach a broad range of people globally
- Brands send wine and work on a schedule, usually a 2-week collaboration
- Each influencer has a different angle
- Wineries choose which countries to post in
- Mostly European producers so far
- Started in May 2020 - IG page has 1,500+ followers (July 2020)
Content that works
- High-quality price ratio (“QPR”) wines
- 1st growth Bordeaux gets the most engagement
- Layout formats don’t do as well as regular pictures
- Consistency in what you’re posting about
Working with wineries
- Payment sometimes in samples, sometimes in cash
- Need to enjoy the brand and the wines to have consistency for followers
- Takes into account winery size and means
IG Lives
- Wineries mostly reached out to him
- Have done Chateau Lagrange and Charles Heidsieck

If you loved this episode, we would love for you to subscribe, rate, and review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, cheers!

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XChateau is a podcast about all things wine, from vine to your glass. We tackle the business of wine and keep you up to date with new and exciting developments in the wine industry.

In this episode, Robert Vernick and Peter Yeung interview Taylor Wilson (Instagram: @thiswaywithtay) about becoming a full-time wine influencer on Instagram from a career in real estate. Robert and Peter discuss how Taylor’s mother’s love of wine inspired her to learn more about it, wine education, building an 18,000+ IG following in one year, and how certain clothing choices can help engagement.

Other topics covered in this episode include:

Inspiration of wine love from Taylor’s mother
Wine Education - WSET 2 at Napa Valley Wine Academy - enabled her to ask winemakers more educated questions
Start as a travel blogger while a real estate agent with a degree in fashion
Other social platforms
- Tried TikTok
- Wants to expand into Pinterest, YouTube
- About to launch a blog
Focus on food and wine pairing
Now full-time Instagram
Content creation
- Writes captions the morning of posts to harness more creativity and authenticity, not as pre-planned
- Spends ~20 hours/week on Instagram
Engagement with wine brands
- ~10 brands / day reach out on DM
- ~50% for samples / ~50% for business requests
- Nobody asks to post for free anymore
- Wine Access relationship
  - They are looking for more awareness
  - At the beginning - pay per post + $/new customer
  - Used link in bio and swipe up to track
  - Also did a discount code for tracking
- Louis Jadot
  - Giveaway for 1 year IG anniversary
  - 2 Zalto glasses
- Hierarchy of paid relationships
  - Lowest - posts for free products
  - Stories
  - Giveaways
  - Paid posts
- Most successful partnerships
  - Wine Access - longest running
  - Burgundy - going to do a new, big campaign
  - Love Jadot giveaway - best 1 post
- Sends stats a week later to brands, wants to track more stats
- Determining wine brands to work with
  - Must be authentic with brand / IG
    Max 2 things / week goal -> story must be about Taylor’s wine journey
  - Says no to a lot of things and free wine
  - Often tries the wine first before agreeing to promotions
giveaway / contest - IG blocks the promotion
Uses brands’ contracts now, but will develop her own soon
Media Kit
- Shows pricing, demographics of followers, engagement
- Changed pricing 5-6x in the last 4 months -> as followers grew, one of the highest engagement in the industry
Following
- 18k+ followers
- 65% male, 35% female
- 25-54 years old
- US (NY, Seattle, W Coast), London, Paris
- US, Italy, France, UK, Brazil
Building a following
- 18k in 1 year
- Being consistent
- Posting regularly - didn’t post for 1 week, took 2.5 months to get back
- Comment on every comment
- Finding like minded people in the community - other wine blog girls, etc…
- Replying to DM’s (IG loves this)
- Hashtags
  - Used hashtag generators at the beginning
  - Made a list of relevant hashtags by size (small - up to 65k, med - up to 200k, large - 1M+ posts) - pulled a few from each section
  - Used to used 30, now 20, some say magic number is 7-14
- Mistakes - not replying after posting, not posting for a while
Posting as creative outlet
- Can make borderline inappropriate captions in posts
- The “Tay” pose
Advice for brands
- Email influencers, DMs are full
- A lot goes behind posts
- Influencers are a great tool, people trust us

If you loved this episode, we would love for you to subscribe, rate and review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, cheers!

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XChateau is a podcast about all things wine, from vine to your glass. We tackle the business of wine and keep you up to date with new and exciting developments in the wine industry.

In this episode, Robert Vernick and Peter Yeung interview Georgia Panagopoulou (Instagram: @wine.gini) about creating digital content on social media and supporting wineries in the digital marketing space. Robert and Peter discuss Georgia’s experience with the OIV Masters of Wine Management, how she built her brand and @wine.gini, and working with wineries to tell their stories as both a wine ambassador and digital marketer.

Other topics covered in this episode include:

Falling in love with wine in Spain - through a university exchange with the Erasmus program
Getting a Masters in Chemical Engineering and how she approaches communication with an engineering mindset
Moving to Santorini, the center of wine in Greece
OIV Master of Wine Management - traveling to 30 wine-producing countries, based in France, mostly for wine entrepreneurs and executives
Moving to New Zealand - to blend the old world and new world perspectives
Engaging with wineries
- Smaller wineries want her to travel to the property and work as a wine ambassador telling the story
- Bigger brands mostly want wine placement and building brand awareness
- Brainstorms with brands on how to bring more value than just executing what they want
Zonin Project - annually invite sommeliers to the property, engaged Georgia to work as a social media ambassador for the event
Greek wineries - mostly use traditional marketing techniques currently
Measures of success
- Mostly brand awareness - people reached / impressions
- Don’t really ask her to sell wine
Wine.gini audience (100k+ followers)
- Both wine lovers and wine professionals
- Top markets: US, UK, France, Italy, Germany, Canada, & Brazil
- 25-50 years old
- 50/50 split male/female
Ways to grow a social following
- Much easier in 2017 (when she started) - could get 100 followers/day easily, if you posted a lot, IG would promote you, started posting pics of herself to do more storytelling and created a personal style and brand
- Hit 40,000 followers in 1 year
- Today - more difficult to build a following - do advertising, be super niche and special, or post bikini or ab photos
Ways to not grow a following today
- Follow and unfollow people
- Interact with accounts that aren’t relevant
- Don’t fall into the trap of always doing what works well, vs expressing your unique style
Wineries want help building the story and better communicate with consumers to get the right message out

If you loved this episode, we would love for you to subscribe, rate, and review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, cheers!

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XChateau is a podcast about all things wine, from vine to your glass. We tackle the business of wine and keep you up to date with new and exciting developments so you always know what goes into your bottle.

In this episode, Robert Vernick and Peter Yeung interview Amanda McCrossin (Instagram/YouTube: @sommvivant; former Sommelier at Press Napa Valley) about creating content on social media and telling the stories behind the wines. Robert and Peter discuss how Amanda works with wine brands on telling their story, her theatre background, and best practices for wine influencers and for brands to interact with them.

Other topics covered in this episode include:

Background in theatre, film, & TV - has always loved being on screen
Restaurants got her into wine, wine education helped her get sommelier jobs
Former Sommelier and Wine Director at Press Napa Valley - a “life-changing” decision
The lack of discussion of the history of Napa Valley was the inspiration to start her social media channels (e.g. - a vlog to track wineries in Napa to visit, creating an access point for people to learn about wine)
Finding community on social - often through DMs
Follower demographics:
- YouTube (~6k followers) - heavy male (65%+), 30-60 years old
- IG (~24k followers) - heavy female, ~25-50 years old
- Males seem to enjoy longer form content
- Very diverse group: trade, consumers, aspirational collectors, moms
- Global audience: US big, then South America
COVID pandemic has increased viewership
Content monetization - 70% non-paid, 30% paid
YouTube content often more for brand awareness
Tailoring content for the audience
- As an influencer, need to be steadfast in beliefs
- Listen to the audience - DM’s, engagement -> more than numbers
Advice for brands & influencers
- PR agencies can help
- As a brand, you get what you pay for
- Brands need to do due diligence to see how it will reflect on the brand (e.g. - dig into comments)
- Prefers to work on a long-term basis: more like a brand ambassador model
Types of content: posts, IG Live, YouTube videos, webinars, speaking engagements; very little on Facebook
Believes the stigma around paid content is untrue
Feedback from brands
- Mostly positive
- One winery -> says they get 20-30 signups per post
Building a following - “don’t take the easy way”
- Build organically
- Respond to comments, engage with others, follow others
- Kevin Kelly - the “1,000 true fans” essay - about finding your tribe

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In this episode, Robert Vernick and Peter Yeung interview Charlie Fu (Instagram: @clayfu.wine and Wine Berserkers moderator: c fu) about wine collecting and the impact of social media. Robert and Peter discuss how Charlie got into wine, his engagement in Wine Berserkers, and how he uses Instagram and Cellar Tracker to discuss and engage with other serious wine lovers about wine.

Other topics covered in this episode include:

Charlie’s background - “Attorney by day, wine drinker at all other times”
The “epiphany wine” - 2003 Robert Mondavi Reserve Cabernet Sauvignon
Favorite wines - Burgundy, Northern Rhone
Instagram
- Started with photos of his dog, food, then went into wine
- Split out a wine-focused IG page
- Interested in talking to people who are serious about wine
The importance of honesty and candidness of wine opinions
Puts wine notes into IG, migrates to Cellar Tracker, and posts some to Wine Berserkers for discussion
Wine Charity Auction
- During the protests around police brutality
- Sold raffle tickets for donations and auctioned off wines donated from collectors’ cellars
- Raised $60k in 42 hours, plus other contributions
- Money donated to NAACP Legal Defense Fund
- Leveraged Wine Berserkers (largest contributor), Instagram, Reddit, Facebook
Wine Berserkers
- Founding - an offshoot from the Robert Parker web forum
- User base - >27,500 users, ~3 million posts, upwards of ~2,400 online at a single time
  - Mostly male
  - Med age - ~late 40s/early 50s
  - Serious wine collectors
  - Well educated, high income
- Berserkers Day
  - An annual event where producers sell their wine
  - Can offer anything, but usually interesting wines at a special price
  - Some wines balance their budget on that day
- Berserkers business accounts
  - Annual service
  - Businesses can advertise and promote their wines
  - Helps with server costs
- Grand Cru Cru
  - Annual subscription
  - No ads
  - Priority access to Berserker Day
  - Blurbs on avatar
  - Variable payment (min $25/year)
- Tips for wineries -> join the community
Being a “wine influencer”
- Doesn’t accept wine for free
- Doesn’t want taking wine to tarnish his opinion
- Willing to buy wine and review it

If you loved this episode, we would love for you to subscribe, rate, and review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, cheers!

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In this episode, Robert Vernick and Peter Yeung interview Super Bowl Champion and founder of The Wine MVP wine club Will Blackmon about his love of wine and how he ended up in the wine business. Robert and Peter discuss the NFL and wine, how Will got into wine, and the business of The Wine MVP.

Other topics covered in this episode include:

The influence of Charles Woodson of wine on the NFL
Reverse blind tasting the wine Will’s dad drank
Will’s love of wine - the importance of context and the experience, including the story and the history
Importance of wine education - the language, understanding, and respect for Will’s passion for wine
The NFL Wine Guy - the impact of an article on Will on the front page of USA Today Sports
Will’s wine travel bucket list - Lynch-Bages, Lafite, Catena, Champagne, Alsace
The dream of launching a wine brand...the key is being able to sell the wine
The Wine MVP - a new wine club -
- Carefully curated wines
- “All Access” - learn about wine together with Will
- 2 premium bottles every month, $79.98, shipping included
- Has the luxury feel, but for everyone and educational
- Wine trading cards - has the wine stats, food pairings, Will’s notes
- YouTube channel - educational, approachable videos about the wines
- Concierge side - tours, trips, centered around wine education
Filling the cellars of NFL players
Using social media platforms to get the word out - Instagram the most effective for Will
Education videos on Instagram translating into wine club signups
NFL vs NBA with wine
Athlete and celebrity wine brands

If you loved this episode, we would love for you to subscribe, rate, and review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, cheers!

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In this episode, Robert Vernick and Peter Yeung discuss building and managing a brand page on social media for wineries, retailers, and other wine businesses. Robert and Peter discuss how to get started, build followership, engage with your audience, and then create calls to action. This episode will give you a head start and helpful tips on how to manage a brand page on social media.

Other topics covered in this episode include:

Claiming your real estate - getting the usernames/handles across social platforms
Creating consistent content - you’re training the audience’s expectations based on the content you share
Building followership - content, hashtags, links
Who to follow and following others as an awareness strategy
Engaging your audience - the need to not only build followership but engage and interact with your audience
Creating call to actions - getting people to sign up, buy, or participate in actions off of the social platform
Campaigns, giveaways, and contests - using these methods to create engagement and action
The tradeoffs of managing the brand account in-house vs outsourced

If you loved this episode, we would love for you to subscribe, rate, and review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, cheers!

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XChateau is a podcast about all things wine, from vine to your glass. We tackle the business of wine and keep you up to date with new and exciting developments, so you always know what goes into your bottle.

In this episode, Robert Vernick and co-host Peter Yeung discuss social media for wineries and the importance of creating your social presence to grow your brand and build a solid client base. Robert and Peter will delve into the pros and cons of each social media platform, as well as managing your brand page, social media influencers, and social media paid advertising. This episode will help you to navigate the continually changing world of social media, even if you’re a newbie, and discover how to create more compelling content and branding for your winery business.

Other topics covered in this episode include:

Best platforms to use, specifically for wineries
Best practices for starting in social media for your business
Tailoring content for different social media platforms
The benefits and downfalls of individual social media platforms
The importance of social media for a wine brand
How to engage your customer base and attract and find new customers
Social media influencers - how to engage, interact, and pair with the right ones
The pros and cons of having multiple social media pages
Call-to-actions: what are they, and how do I use them to benefit my business
How to leverage social paid advertising
Trends versus fads; what’s coming and what’s on its way out the door

If you loved this episode, we would love for you to subscribe, rate, and review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, cheers!

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In this episode host Robert Vernick and co-host Peter Yeung wrap up their series on standing out from the crowd. This episode will focus on the evolution of brand marketing and what wineries should be doing to keep up with trends.

Stay tuned to hear Robert and Peter’s thoughts on the current stage of evolution, how Covid-19 is accelerating that evolution, and which marketing techniques are trends versus fads.

Topics covered in today’s episode:

How Covid-19 is accelerating the adoption of new technology.
Why you have to understand your audience to effectively leverage influencers.
Creating a successful brand campaign: Understanding your persona and creating virality.
The importance of utilizing multi-channel marketing.
Is text messaging the future of consumer engagement?
Why the adoption of a live chat feature on websites can be helpful.
Understanding the basics of digital marketing: SEO and SEM.
Is augmented reality a viable future technology for the industry?
Expanding experiences and engendering connection to your brand.
Taking experiences to the consumer.
How persona can transcend product quality and which brands have done it.
Resurgence of old techniques: Mailers, phone calls and why lockdown has increased their effectiveness.
The success of incentivizing referrals.
Trends and fads: What will still be here in the future?

If you loved this episode, we would love for you to subscribe, rate and review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, cheers!

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In this episode, Robert Vernick and Peter Yeung continue their series on standing out from the crowd. This episode will focus on the classic business models of how brands were built.

Stay tuned to hear Robert and Peter’s thoughts on the three main models wineries use for branding, what works and what needs to change in a post-Covid-19 world.

Topics covered in today’s episode:

Why wine quality and critic scores alone are no longer the key factor in success.
The three classic business models: cult, trade and hospitality.
How cult brands foster a business model based on scarcity.
Two types of wine demand: consumption and investment.
Trade models and the importance of relationship building.
How the increase in sommeliers has altered the influence of distributors.
Leveraging pedigrees and influence in trade nationally and globally.
The necessity of pivoting to direct selling for small wineries unable to crack the trade channel.
The boom in hospitality over the last 30 years.
The importance of creating experiences.
The emergence of cross-marketing.

If you loved this episode, we would love for you to subscribe, rate and review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, cheers!

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In this episode, host Robert Vernick and co-host Peter Yeung begin a multi-part series about how wineries can stand out from the crowd. This first episode will focus on how to use and leverage wine scores.

Stay tuned to hear Robert and Peter’s thoughts about the impact of wine scores on businesses, the importance of building your brand and how the advent of social media has changed how consumers are exposed to brands.

Topics covered in today’s episode:

The increase in the amount of wine brands nationally and globally.
Winemakers often underestimate the necessity of branding.
Analysis from Luxury Wine Marketing of Wine Advocate 100 point scores over the last 20 years.
How the amount of wine brands has lessened the impact of high scores.
The expansion of wine critics and what it means for how scores are valued and used.
How the relationship between consumers, scores and critics has changed.
The necessity of building brand reputation.
Critics as their own brand: What that means for how they score.
Crowdsourced scores: How aggregate score websites are changing the industry.
The increase in the cost of customer acquisition.

If you loved this episode, we would love for you to subscribe, rate and review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, cheers!

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On this edition of the podcast, host Robert Vernick and co-host Peter Yeung interview Tim Marson, MW. He is the senior wine buyer at Wine.com, a website which has experienced a surge in popularity due to the Covid-19 pandemic. Tim has been in the industry for 23 years from retail, to independent specialists, to wine buying. Wine.com is the leading wine commerce website and ships to 42 states and D.C with a wide range of customers.

Tim discusses how the Covid-19 pandemic has affected Wine.com, consumer habits and marketing tactics his company has deployed during these times.

Topics covered in today’s episode:

How Wine.com saw an instant surge in demand during lockdown.
The positive financial impact and customer base growth due to the pandemic.
The 3 M’s that contribute to steady growth: Millennials, Mobile and Members.
Wine.com’s Stewardship program and how it engenders consumer loyalty.
Decreasing bottle prices vs. increasing units sold.
Why Wine.com had to reduce the amount of SKU’s in inventory during the pandemic.
How restaurant closures impacted allocations and wine availability.
Disruptions in the supply chain.
Why staffing had to be dramatically ramped up.
Utilizing online chat functions to create consumer connections.
Viral marketing and changing the way consumers participate in tastings.

Check out Wine.com

If you loved this episode, we would love for you to subscribe, rate and review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, cheers!

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In this episode host Robert Vernick and co-host Peter Yeung interview Lauren McPhate. Lauren is Director of Sales at Tribeca Wine Merchants in downtown Manhattan. Her experience with wine began in Hong Kong where she worked as Communication and Events Manager for Ginsberg + Chan.

Lauren discusses how the Covid-19 pandemic has affected Tribeca Wine merchants and the current buying habits of the consumer.

Stay tuned to hear about what Lauren thinks the future of wine sales look like for the industry and Tribeca Wine Merchants, as well as how they are making the best of lockdown.

Topics covered in today’s episode:

How the shutdown of New York affected store operations.
The disparity in mask culture between the US and Asia.
Online business: How has the response rate changed since lockdown?
How tariffs are impacting wine pricing more than Covid-19.
Consumer trends and how product purchases are differing.
Experimenting in lockdown: Why people are changing buying habits.
Gaining new customers now vs. before the pandemic.
Changing marketing strategies.
The importance of an online presence.
Why you should take this time to build strong client relationships.
The disparity between volume of orders and revenue.
How clients are being more thoughtful during this time.

Tribeca Wine Merchants

If you loved this episode, we would love for you to subscribe, rate and review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, cheers!

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In this episode, host Robert Vernick and co-host Peter Yeung discuss the recent change in the way natural wine can be classified. The French Appellation System has put a new system of categorization into place, meaning natural wines must be organically farmed, hand harvested, and use only indigenous yeasts.

Robert and Peter go further in depth about the new criteria for natural wines and explain the differences between products that would be classed natural now compared to before the change.

Stay tuned to hear Robert and Peter’s thoughts on how these changes will affect the producers of natural wine, if at all, and if in fact the product itself will change with the new processes.

Topics covered in today’s episode:

The new definition of natural: How different is it?
Growth in the natural wine market.
Impact on wine producers: What are the risks with these new guidelines?
How different regions will be affected.
Certification process.
The effect on the importing and labelling of products.
Quality vs pricing: How, if at all, will these factors be affected?
Impact on people with dietary restrictions.
How will we know if the change is effective?

If you loved this episode, we would love for you to subscribe and rate and review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, cheers!

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In this episode, hosts Robert Vernick and Peter Yeung discuss how the Covid-19 outbreak is impacting the wine industry and consumers. With everyone on lockdown, the landscape of the wine industry has had to adapt, and may have to evolve further, to stay competitive.

Robert and Peter go in-depth about how sales are being affected, new strategies the industry should be employing, and how the impact on the restaurant industry directly affects the wine consuming experience. They also discuss how some types of retailers are hurting more than others.

Topics covered in today’s episode:

The state of the industry pre-Covid-19.
How the net wealth of consumers affects pricing.
Which sectors are actually benefitting from lockdown?
Specialty stores and a need to shift to e-commerce.
Closing of wineries: How does this impact communicating brand message?
Adapting and overcoming: Strategies for growth during a global pandemic.
Emergence of the online experience and how lack of other content is driving change in what the industry produces.
What the future holds for consumers and the industry: Is this a chance to shake up a stagnating business and catch up to the rest of the world?

If you loved this episode, we would love for you to subscribe, rate and review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, cheers!

XChateau Wine Podcast: Recent Episodes

Robert Vernick, Peter Yeung

1 Facebook (Boomers)

1 SKU is House Napa Cab - ~11k cases

3 state in US for # of wineries

of visitors - typical weekend - ~400-500/day, special events ~1,000

1 - consistency – both in aging and oxygen transfer

2 - Not tainting wine – if ~3% of wines are tainted, recover the full value; can detect TCA as low as 1 nanogram/liter, not 1 case of TCA in 20 years

3 – winemaker choice – able to choose closures based on desired evolution of the wine

1 channel has been direct referrals - people like to share their upgrade stories

of wine brands (as of 2019):

1 - The Wine Smart Course

2 - Beta: Wine & Cheese Pairing

1 export market for US wines

1 - online courses

2 - wine review subscriptions

3 - online advertising

1 - vintage (UK, China, Hong Kong)

3 factor - grape variety

1 - the capacity to age as wine evolves with time

2 - high ratings from wine critics (the UK the lowest for this)

3 in US wine production behind CA and WA

metoo movement has been helpful

1 - at wineries - for pouring library wines, etc.…

2 - restaurants and wine bars

3 - at a friend’s home (word of mouth) - this is becoming the #1-way people hear about it in the US

ad - reach is usually less than without it

giveaway / contest - IG blocks the promotion