SHAMING GOD - How Insiders do it Best!: Recent Episodes
David Ayliffe - Author, Podcster, Civil Celebrant, LGBTIQ Advocate, and Disability Worker
The best and the worst advocates for God, if he needs them, are believers, and the more passionate you are about your belief the more in danger you are of getting it wrong and doing Him/Her damage, not to mention people you malign. Over the centuries misguided Christian leaders have done immense damage to those with whom they disagreed or demonised.Christian anti-semitism over many centuries it can be argued prompted the holocaust. The Great Reformer Martin Luther's booklet "The Jews and their Lies" a major contribution generating love and respect from the Nazis. This book focuses on the second primary area of persecution by misguided Christians, the LGBTIQ community, with devastating effects throughout Africa where people die, are killed, mercilessly beaten by family, friends, neighbours and police because they are gay, lesbian, or transgender. I'm publishing this podcast and book free whilst hoping that some may take up the cause I have embraced to help queer refugees in Africa.They need people who are queer, straight, black, white, and asian to support them. In my view if you are a follower of the message of Jesus and the Gospels you demonstrate this by your love for the poor, the marginalised, the sick, the dying and always outcast.So in this work I will also feature wonderful humanitarians, many who are Christian, living lives where kindness and love for others is the mark by which they are recognised.Famous atheist, Richard Dawkins is famous for his 2006 book, "The God Delusion", which was a New York Times best seller with claims being it has sold more than 3 million copies.Dawkins and I have one thing very much in common. We both reject the same God. He wrote “[God is] a vindictive bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser, a misogynistic, homophobic racist, an infanticidal, genocidal, phillicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”From some preachers utter, this is exactly the God they endorse.Not me. What about you?
Chapter One - Strange Reunions. The first story about the funeral of a young man who died an awful death from AIDS. His parents, who had disowned him, attend the funeral and the priest challenges them "why are you here"? The second story about mothers who adopt their son or family's killers in Rwanda. Unconditional love in action.
Is it possible to shame God? Well I believe it is and that the only people who can do it really well are those who claim to know him best. So if you are an atheist, an agnostic or a “hatch, match and dispatch Christian” (believing that faith only matters for births, deaths and marriages) then you are let off the hook.
In the history of the Christian church there have been some remarkable moments and wonderful people but there have also been very dark moments. In what I write you will see how Christians in the name of God or Jesus cruelly vilified a long list of people including Jews, Moslems, Hindus, Buddhists, the poor, the disabled and Queer people. With the last group, priests and evangelists have taken a message that aligned people of other than heterosexuality as demon-possessed and worthy of exclusion, starvation, death and worse, the fire of eternal suffering. Yet as we will see the same evil has been perpetrated on the other groups as well.
In the midst of isolation through Corona Virus, this interview was a challenge and a joy. I have known Roie Caine since the day she was born into the cult of which my family and hers were part.
She grew up with my adult children and she, like all of her peers have a great story to tell. It is a story of triumphing over the negatives they experienced from growing up in a group limited by fundamentalist religion that argued only we were the chosen ones with the ultimate truth in what we considered were the end times.
Bizarre beliefs that restricted our friendships and familiies only to those within the group and shunned those outside, including parents, grandparents and siblings who did not believe as we did.
Roie's is an amazing story. From foundational beliefs that did not revere tertiary education, she now has three university degrees. After working for years with disadvantaged and at risk children, she has moved with her husband to take up a role as a nurse working in the Emergency Department of a remote rural hospital where all her skills will be called upon and she will need to gain new ones not by choice but through absolute need.
This was a tough interview for me because to Roie, I was her "uncle", a leader within the group and finally the Senior Pastor of the church when the death of the cult leader left a void that was almost impossible to fill.
Roie particularly appreciated in 2010 the launch of the book I wrote with my brother, My Brother's Eyes which told the story of Zion Full Salvation Ministry, Violet Pryor, who claimed to be God. It was a story that I told remembering from the inside and my shunned brother John told from the outside.
Yes, an oldie but a goodie. I adopt a bad German accent to share with you the story of Jack Schitt. You don't know him? Most people don't but you'll know the whole Schitt family soon. And if you like to read it. Here it is below. Please subscribe for more of the same, Affable interviews and stories too!
"Who is Jack Schitt?
A little information to help in our troubled times. For some time many of us have wondered just who is Jack Schitt? We find ourselves at a loss when someone says, 'You don't know Jack Schitt!'
Well, thanks to genealogy efforts, you can now respond in an intellectual way.
Jack Schitt is the only son of Awe Schitt.
Awe Schitt was married to O. Schitt, the fertilizer magnate, and owner of Needeep N. Schitt, Inc.
They had one son.
Jack Schitt married Noe Schitt.
The deeply religious couple produced six children: Holie Schitt, Giva Schitt, Fulla Schitt, Bull Schitt, and the twins Deep Schitt and Dip Schitt.
Against her parents' objections, Deep Schitt married Dumb Schitt, a high school dropout.
After being married 15 years, Jack and Noe Schitt divorced. Noe Schitt later married Ted Sherlock, and because her kids were living with them, she wanted to keep her previous name. She was then known as Noe Schitt-Sherlock.
Meanwhile, Dip Schitt married Loda Schitt, and they produced a son with a rather rather nervous disposition who was nick-named Chicken Schitt.
Two of the other six children, Fulla Schitt and Giva Schitt, were inseparable throughout childhood and subsequently married the Happen brothers in a dual ceremony.
The wedding announcement in the newspaper announced the Schitt-Happens nuptials.
The Schitt-Happens children were Dawg, Byrd, and Horse.
Bull Schitt, the prodigal son, left home to tour the world. He recently returned from Italy with his new Italian bride, Pisa Schitt.
Now when someone says, 'You don't know Jack Schitt,' you can correct them.
Sincerely,
Crock O. Schitt"
The title originally was "Robert - From Australian Christian Lobby to new life shunned by the family he loves", but I like the title I've used better, even if Robert might deny it.
Robert Pattie-Williams is a gay man, who is proud to be so. In a previous life he was Chairman of the Victorian Branch of the ultra-conservative Australian Christian Lobby, hobnobbing with people like Jim Wallace, Fred Nile and other Christian leaders and conservative politicians.
All the while, suffering because his battle to overcome the gay had never worked. I performed the marriage ceremony for Robert and his husband Russell and I know just how much he longs for reconciliation with his adult children on the basis of love.
Shunning is not only practice by exclusive cults but all kinds of ideologies when they clash.
Robert these days is an actor, Director of Clearly Talking - (individual, private and professional voice coaching) https://clearlytalking.com/, and a Curator at TedX Casey https://tedxcasey.com/robert-pattie-williams/
**This Affable Life Podcast, recorded in the middle of the horrible Coronavirus Pandemic when we need affable diversions as much as possible! Special thanks to Nicholas Gearing for editing the sound!!!
Today with two fantastic people, former Jehovah’s Witnesses. It’s a tough story that Lara Kaput and Eddie Puric talk about. They have lost everything and being dedicated to helping others in their plight they really are kind and affable people.**
Leaving any high demand totalitarian religious group is a huge step. As you’ll hear people lose family, friends, homes and their livelihoods too. It takes enormous courage to stand up and say no more when what you believe no longer allows you to remain part of the group.
After the podcast if you are interested you can find Lara Kaput on her Linkedin page https://www.linkedin.com/in/lara-kaput-39504755/ and you can read a summary of her story published through the Insight program on SBS Television on her webpage www.saysorry.org. Eddie Puric can be found on Facebook.
The Attorney General’s Religious Discrimination Bill is on the shelf for the time being but this podcast is relevant for discussions around that bill. Groups like the Jehovah’s Witnesses need to discriminate to survive and the interview highlights the need for Government’s to qualify what is a religion and calls for a code of conduct that religious groups should adhere to before receiving tax and other benefits when some of their activities actually do harm and not good.
**Lara mentions the Sydny Morning Herald Opinion piece on the Bill by Luke Beck, Associate Professor of Constitutional Law at Monash University.
The quote that Lara referred in full here: "I have suggested having a stock standard anti-discrimination law. Such a law would protect people against religious discrimination but wouldn't override existing anti-discrimination and human rights protections, and wouldn't allow people to intimidate others. The anti-discrimination law experts group has made a similar suggestion. So has Jesuit priest and lawyer Father Frank Brennan. So has the Australian human rights commission.”
https://www.smh.com.au/national/religious-discrimination-bill-porter-must-fix-it-or-ditch-it-20200225-p54461.html**
This interview is with another Affable friend Cath Connelly. I’ve known Cath for a number of years and value her for the contribution she has made into the lives of many people, including myself.
Cath heads the Living Well Centre along with its founder Rev John Stewart. The Centre exists to help people explore and learn about Spiritual Direction, some of whom become Directors themselves.
Spiritual Direction sounds scary at first, but it's a long tradition that embraces people of different faiths and no faith at all. Cath, a musician and composer has many strings to her….well not a bow, but her harp and you’ll hear about that too.
Not only that but she talks about her Doctorate which she currently undertaking on the timely subject “Handbook of Hope: Emerging Stories Beyond a Disintegrating World.”
**Pretty timely following on from Australia’s disastrous fires and now the Corona Virus and associated threats to the world economy.
You can find Cath through her website www.cathy.com.au where you can sample and buy her music and that which she has recorded with the trio Liminality (a great word meaning the threshold betwixt and between!
Coming soon:
I'm about to publish a series of podcasts on the Australian Government’s proposed Religious Discrimination Act which many believe will cause great harm. I think you’ll find them interesting as they include an interview with a former Board Member of the Australian Christian Lobby, two former Jehovahs Witnesses and some very revealing interviews with former Exclusive Brethren people - the right to discriminate is very important to groups that want to prohibit their children from university studies and careers in medicine, science, the arts, law - in fact anything but small business or the home for women.**
Anthony Venn Brown has a new book on the way with a website that reflects it's title www.thequesttocurequeers.com
I'm sure he won't mind me parodying that with the title of this podcast, will you Anthony?
I begin this podcast by admitting to Anthony that I have admired him ever since reading his first book "My Life of Unlearning" that detailed his terrible battle to overcome the demon of homosexuality only to finally come to the realisation that it wasn't a demon after all, it was simply who he was.
Some will wonder at the cruelty that religion can sometimes exhibit to people who are different to what they believe is right. Some of my Christian friends may even find it strange that I so easily embrace Anthony's story and that as a marriage celebrant I regularly perform same sex marriages. To all I ask you simply to listen to this interview and try and hear the heart of a man who has made such a difference in the lives of many young people who have battled their sexuality and the rejection of their churches but still strive to hold to faith in a loving and merciful God.
The crossroad for Anthony as told in his first book came at the time of his being the most successful evangelist for Pentecostal churches in Australia with an open door to his preaching that took him frequently into the largest churches in the country and overseas too. Yet despite all this success, a failure kept stalking him as he simply could never succeed in praying the gay away.
As his new book's website states:
Anthony Venn-Brown is one of the oldest living survivors of ex-gay/reparative/conversion therapy, in a religious context, in the world.
Born in 1951, Anthony's developmental years were during the homosexual dark ages of the 50’s and 60’s. Becoming conscious of his homosexuality as a teenager in the mid 1960’s was frightening. The law said he was a criminal and mental health professionals were using aversion therapy to cure gay men and lesbians. After an attempted suicide and a time in therapy in 1967-68, he turned to God for help in the summer of 1969 and became a born-again Christian. For Anthony, now his homosexuality wasn’t only a crime and sickness it was a sin….an abomination."
Through his church life and before Anthony had fought desperately not to be gay, but the turning point occurred when he was shamed for the sin of "adultery" in front of 800 people in his church and sitting next to wife and two daughters. The leaders of the church could not possibly have named the sin of homosexuality as to them it was like Lord Voldemort from Harry Potter, so fearful that it was never-to-be-named. For Anthony and many like him, such a memory always remains painful.
I enjoyed talking to Anthony and I hope you do too.
Anthony Venn Brown:
Founder of ABBI, Ambassadors and Bridge Builders International www.abbi.org.au - Creating understanding, acceptance and a better world for LGBTI people of faith. Ambassadors & Bridge Builders International provides information, education, resources and consultancy services.
Founder and former Director of Freedom2b, Australia's leading organisation for LGBTI people from Christian backgrounds and provides support and information that assists them on their journey to reconciliation of their faith and/or their sexual orientation.
Author/Speaker · 2004 to present · Sydney, Australia
His first book published in three editions "My Life of Unlearning" http://alifeofunlearning.com/
"We are all living a life of unlearning: unlearning things we accepted as truth but created a persona so unlike who we really are."
This interview with Nathan Willis, Migration Agent who with his wife Sandie has enabled 100s of families to secure visas to make Australia home and make a positive and powerful contribution to the country they love. Nathan is also a Councillor with Ballina Shire Council, and a former Deputy Mayor.
He is a Registered Nurse who has specialised in both International Health and Development and Aged Care. He has over 10 years experience of ongoing involvement in Myanmar (Burma) including 3 years full-time work (2006-2009) as an aid worker.
Wanting to do more for communities in need Nathan studied law part time while working as a nurse in aged care. Today is an admitted Lawyer in the Supreme Court of New South Wales and is a Solicitor and Barrister in the High Court of Australia. He holds a current Practising Certificate as a Solicitor in New South Wales.
He is writing a PhD with Southern Cross University. His PhD subject ‘Myanmar (Burma), Ethnic Nationalities and the Rule of Law. A Critical Analysis.’ Nathan has been awarded an Australian Postgraduate Award scholarship to undertake the PhD research.
After the interview Nathan posted this story on Facebook about a family he and his wife assisted to settle in Australia. I found this moving and yet another reason why I admire Nathan and his wife Sandie and family.
"So Rev Pablo Nunez is now ordained in Ballina. Finding the right words is difficult. Which isn't like me. Bear with me. I first met Pablo and Fernanda in Adelaide. They were working in their community in a genuinely effective way. We helped them become Permanent Residents then Australian Citizens. When I was running for Ballina Shire Council I knew of the Ballina vacancy and I knew that Pablo was studying in Adelaide with the Uniting Church. It made sense. I introduced people then stepped back. As I do. He has achieved so much and will achieve so much more. So - today I attended his ordination and shed a few tears because he's the real deal. Not just words. Not empty actions. But someone who will love our community and can't help loving our community. Pablo, you are a true friend and I love you and your family and always will."
Thank you Nathan.
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For the first interview I feature Sharyn Mullens Taylor who at the time of the interview was Executive Director of this theatre company.
Founded by Sharyn as Fresh Youth Theatre in 2002 and at the time focussing on the needs of young people it developed into a not for profit company that partners with a number of councils around Melbourne and with a variety of supporters.
Website: www.freshtheatre.org.au
Today, FRESH – Theatre for Social Change, is a not for profit theatre company primarily focused on achieving social change through the use of applied theatre techniques. Fresh uses a range of applied theatre practices to bring about societal development and personal growth in the community, corporate and education sectors.
The unique approach inherent in every FRESH youth theatre season is grounded in the belief that effective, resilient and healthy young people are an integral asset to every community. The leadership of FRESH believe in connecting, supporting and building positive relationships with young people. It is because of this belief that the FRESH youth theatre program has the ability to transform the lives of young people by providing them with the resources to live amazing, positive and effective lives.
An exciting interview with Sharyn and I was delighted to hear of the some of the projects undertaken by FRESH, including working with people traumatised by the Black Saturday fires.
FRESH is open to exploring partnerships with other communities and can be contacted by email on info@freshtheatre.org.au
This podcast has a shout out to the town of Cobargo and areas devastated by fires over the Christmas / New Year period. Let's remember wonderful people who have lost so much and find ways to support their regrowth through donations and holidaying in the areas.
Finally a particular thank you to my friend Cath Connelly who wears many hats. She is Harp teacher and performer, composer, and a spiritual director and is currently undergoing a PhD on the unusual but important subject of HOPE. Thank you Cath for generously providing me use of your lovely song Beltane as background for these pods.